Ep 174: Q&A: Favourite Books, 00s School Trends & Maths Pedantry

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Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teach Sleep

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
We're back with another episode.

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This is vastly turning into my
favourite episode of the week.

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Vastly.
It's already there, I think,

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because this is just where we
get to read out your submissions

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as readers.
Sometimes it's really

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insightful, sometimes it's
complete nonsense, but it's

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always taken very seriously.
A bit like that intro, but it's

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you called them readers.
You said fastly, Did I say

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readers?
Yeah, it's just all over the

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place really, isn't it?
We're leaving it leaving.

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It This is why people TuneIn.
Yeah, pure professionalism.

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All the gear looks quite good,
doesn't it?

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Absolutely no idea.
No idea.

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Go on Hayden, read the first.
Question.

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So you can certainly make out of
me now, is that right?

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You know the deal by now, right?
Here we go, How to stop feeling

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disheartened by poor attitudes
from students and parents.

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A lot of students I've taught
and their families do not value

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education especially in STEM
subjects.

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I've been struggling with 0
participation in lessons and an

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unbothered attitude.
I tried positive phone calls,

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praise, discussing with the head
of year and many other things

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and yet no change has happened.
Should I accept them as who they

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are or should I keep trying
different ways to motivate them?

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This is an interesting question
because before that we we

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started recording.
I said to Dylan.

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Dylan chose this one and I said,
I feel awkward about these

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questions because sometimes I
feel like my answer is, oh, do

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those things that you've already
said in the question because

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that's kind of what I was going
to say if you didn't say that.

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And other than that, I'm not
really sure if there's much

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more.
Maybe you do just need to accept

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them.
And it feels to me like a bit of

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a cop out.
But you said let's keep this

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question anyway.
Because that's my point.

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Do you know, it feels like like,
oh, you're doing the things I

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would do and it's still rubbish.
You can lead a horse to water,

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but you cannot make it drink.
I've tried it's, it's just

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impossible.
And I've tried phoning his

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parents.
I said, listen, this horse, this

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horse is not drinking the water.
I've tried positive

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affirmations.
Hang on, hang on.

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Did you try?
I did.

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Did you discuss with the head of
horses?

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I had Frankie Dettori on the
line.

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Oh, Frankie, mate, this horse is
not drinking.

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It's bloody water.
Not this work.

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So.
And the point is, you have to

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admit sometimes no matter what
you do.

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That horses don't like water.
Don't like water?

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That's answered your question,
Yeah.

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But you know, all jokes aside,
like I do genuinely think I just

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realised you want a blanket.
Sorry, I'm just realised you got

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a blanket on.
It's gold.

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I still don't have radiators up
here.

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Notice?
I wish we could turn the camera.

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You got to trust me here.
This is the top of my house.

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OK, so obviously it's cold and
there are two brackets on the

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wall there and two brackets on
the wall.

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What surprise radiators should
be like.

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Hang on, all that one's behind
the door.

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That's not hanging, it's just
leaning up against the wall.

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I wonder when that door on these
radiators will go on.

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Probably.
Never.

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Well I must have got a blanket
on me and and people.

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I don't mind seeing me wee and
even if those things will

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happen.
Sorry anyway, I couldn't have

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ruined this question more.
They haven't.

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You haven't.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
First, you said I don't want to

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answer it.
And I did everything to just

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just derail you.
But in, in all seriousness, I,

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the reason I said I think we
should keep this in any way and

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have this discussion is because
it's twofold #1 just because

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we've got a podcast that's
relatively popular and a social

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media following, I think it is
easy sometimes for people to

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think, oh, they'll know.
And I think it's nice for people

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to hear sometimes.
No, we don't.

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Like there isn't this magic
answer.

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We aren't on a pedestal.
We don't know more than you.

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Genuinely, as a teacher, we know
the same as all of our audience.

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We're all in this together.
We just happen to put a camera

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on sometimes and are confident
enough to chat about it.

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Right?
Yeah, Yeah.

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So that's the first thing.
And the second thing is

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actually, I do have an answer.
And the answer is you're doing

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everything you can do.
And there has to be a point.

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There simply has to be a point
where you at least absolve

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yourself of some of the guilt
for this.

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It sounds like this person feels
like they need to do more or

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like it's on them.
And my point here is that it

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cannot be on you when clearly
you're putting in the effort to

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do more.
And I would say to this person,

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look, don't stop trying.
That's what I would say, don't

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stop because you might
breakthrough at some point.

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And even if a couple of
children, their attitude

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switches a little bit, that's
fantastic.

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But you're, you're kind of
pushing against the the entire

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machine here of, you know,
social attitudes towards

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education, which have been
shifting over time.

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It's really hard for an
individual to feel like they're

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making a huge change.
You can feel like you're making

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an act that change in a small
scale.

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Absolutely don't give up and and
don't feel disheartened I'd say.

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Yeah, I suppose even that is
still ultimately a bit of advice

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because part of this question we
we could have answered it if

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Yeah, just give up.
They're not, they're not going

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to change that.
Don't worry about it.

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Whereas really, I guess the
wider point is ultimately you

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should still keep trying as part
of your role as a teacher to

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keep trying to break down those
boundaries.

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Just, yeah, like you said,
don't, don't go home like

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feeling unbelievably guilty that
not everyone is changing because

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you've got the systemic
pressures of just in general on

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top of you.
And also, yeah, you can't, you

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can't actually control these
people.

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Like you don't, you're not
actually in their family.

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Yeah, like there is just a a
limitation there.

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So.
Yeah, good answer.

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I always think of it in the
context of everything else as

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well.
Like I, I don't think for a

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second, you know, there are,
there are children like this who

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exist, right, who get to year 6
and we know that we've seen them

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ourselves who will still
struggle with their number bonds

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to 10, who will still struggle
with writing their name down,

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right?
Genuinely, this happens.

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It's not because the teachers
have seen for one week in year 3

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and four and five that they
can't do this and suddenly they

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give up, right?
The teacher has continued to try

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to make sure that that child can
do their number bonds to 10, can

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understand basic number, can
write letters and can form their

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name.
That's happened the whole time

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now just because that child got
to year 6 and still can't do it,

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Would you look back and say
well, that was a waste of time,

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shouldn't even bother doing it
in year 3-4 and five.

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You would never say that you
would never suggest that you

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should stop trying when it comes
to education.

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So when it comes to attitudes
and things on a wider level, I

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would say the same thing.
Never stop trying, but I'd also

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to that year 345 teacher.
I wouldn't be like, what have

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you been doing?
They still can't do their name

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by year six in the same way.
I wouldn't go what are you

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doing?
They still have a poor attitude

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towards education.
Yes, there is only so much I can

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do and I'll try my.
The best.

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I'm doing my best to be a
positive force, but that that

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that is it.
That is all I can do.

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And that bloody horse still
won't drink that water, still

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will not.
And I LED it there and it was

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hard, all right?
It's really, really tricky.

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Honestly, can we do anything?
Seriously.

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No.
Do you know what I learned today

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on the Thing of animals?
Just another little sidetrack

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here.
Do you know what cash cow

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actually comes from?
Do you know what it means?

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I and I don't know where it
comes from, no, like a cash cow

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generally means like a really
good earner, right?

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Yeah, someone that's making lots
of money.

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Yeah.
And I always think of the the

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little skip between Ricky
Gervais and Steve Carell when he

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gets really annoyed, like he
left The Office and Ricky

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Gervais goes killing a cash cow
for the both of us.

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Steve Carell, like he's annoyed
he stopped.

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And I actually only learned
today it's so simple what cash

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cow actually means.
Oh, go on, then.

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It literally just means a cow.
Because if you think about a

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farmer who owns a cow, that cow
just by living is constantly

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giving money.
OK, so cash cow is just any old

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cow, right?
Who lives in a farm.

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You milk it, you you continue to
get profit out of it just from

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it exists.
You milk it.

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That's what milk it comes from.
It's not.

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Milking it, you're milking it,
you're milking.

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All the profit, I think maybe
it's a, it's a, it's on us that

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we didn't know that.
Yeah, because it seems basic.

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If someone didn't know what
milking it meant, I'd be like,

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well, it's obviously meant,
yeah, obviously from a cow.

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Funny enough, cash cow means a
cow, yeah?

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Because they make cash for you
exactly because they're a cow.

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Exactly that.
And then I always speak with

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that Mitchell and web sketch
with the farmer.

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Have you seen it?
So David Mitchell's playing a

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farmer.
He's on a farm and he goes, he's

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like playing that role.
And he's like, hey, come here,

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come here.
It's like a documentary.

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Come here and the camera comes
in.

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I, I share this sheep and sell
the wool and then it bloody

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grows back.
I don't have to do anything.

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I just share it again.
More money.

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Easy.
Basically the whole thing was on

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a farm.
Yeah, it's just continuously

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making money just from the
existence of animals.

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Yes, as if there's nothing else
that goes into.

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It listen to this dinner.
The chickens keep laying eggs.

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Just keep doing.
Just keep doing.

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I just keep taking them.
That's funny.

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So that's where cash cow comes.
From, you know, something new.

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You did or or me and you learned
something new and then this

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thing.
What a waste of two minutes.

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Yeah, we all know.
Pretty obvious.

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Yeah, they will answer that
question as you asked them.

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We had another, this question is
interesting, but by the way, and

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I feel like I should read it to
you because it's kind of based

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on your video really and our
conversation, I guess.

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He said you seem to have annoyed
quite a few people from there in

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general.
Yeah, from your maths pedantry

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last week, whether you're right
or wrong, do you think that this

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kind of attitude towards maths
being the right way or the wrong

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way can be detrimental for
children's learning?

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I'm aware that you are on a
podcast and not in front of

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children obviously, but it might
seep into the classroom for

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some.
I understand.

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I did genuinely understand it,
right?

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And I get it and there are lots
of comments on it cuz I think I

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put a clip out from the podcast
that was extended on TikTok and

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we did some clips that we filmed
separately about it.

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And I actually ended up turning
off comments called the long

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one, right?
And I get it.

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And I was waiting for someone to
moan about it.

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The reason I don't, I will sit
all day and talk about maths for

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people.
And there were loads of people

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who were really genuinely just
like, yeah, but look, you can

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have lots of, and you can read
it different ways.

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And as you go through and like,
you know, eventually, even NCTM

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eventually will say that you can
have groups of this and it's

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00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,440
repeated edition and look at it
as the whole.

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And I was like, I will have
conversations till the cows come

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00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:24,600
home about that until the cash
cows come home and I leave out

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00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,800
horse and water.
I'll do that non-stop.

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And I quite enjoyed it.
And I was back and forth and we

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00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:30,680
didn't always necessarily agree,
but it was good.

234
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,680
But then like there were like 3
or 4 people then who just got

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00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:36,520
really personal, got really
like, yeah, like we're just like

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00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,440
insulting.
And I was just like, I don't

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00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,080
want every time I get a
notification, that comment comes

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00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,920
up for my heart to sink and be
like, oh, someone's being

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00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:42,920
horrible.
You know what I mean?

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00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,760
So I turned it on.
I was like, I turned it off on

241
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,600
that, those particular videos
just for that reason.

242
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,560
But, but in going back to like
the people who are just nice

243
00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:51,640
people who want to talk about
it.

244
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:58,200
I, I, I think, I think pedantry
is important and I get it.

245
00:09:58,200 --> 00:09:59,960
If you're like, does it matter?
Who cares?

246
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,640
You know, let in NCTM in, in the
journey through, like eventually

247
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,200
when you're doing times tables
and you go to times tables, it

248
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,600
introduces the idea of
commutativity and it introduces

249
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,600
the idea that it doesn't matter
which way around the factors are

250
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,240
the answers the same?
And you can use that and you can

251
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:13,920
do group solving and all that
stuff.

252
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,640
Which is where most people are
in their heads completely

253
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,920
genuinely from that but onwards.
And you know what?

254
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,840
That's that's genuinely good
maths.

255
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,560
And I think people were thinking
I was being like, I'm picky like

256
00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:24,240
that all the time and that would
be bad.

257
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,720
Yeah, if I was that picky all
the time, it would, it would be

258
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,520
bad.
But there is a reason that when

259
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,160
you first introduce the idea of
multiplication and and link it

260
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,120
to repeated edition, there is a
reason why for those first 12

261
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,080
small steps and in CTM they
exclusively show it that way

262
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,880
around where you have the first
number being how many groups

263
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,160
there are and the second number
what's repeatedly adding.

264
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,840
Because it's important to be
really specific when you first

265
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,120
make those links.
Of course afterwards, like I

266
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,560
said in the video, you should be
doing it both ways.

267
00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,280
You know, every year 4 child
came up to me and started

268
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,760
counting in eights for 8 * 7.
Do you really think I'd be there

269
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,040
going?
No, actually you should be

270
00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:58,080
counting.
No.

271
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,280
The usativity is important.
Shortcuts are important ways of

272
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:02,600
representing things are
important.

273
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,880
Scaling is a different type of
thing, like in terms of how how

274
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,400
much a flower grows, right?
It's in repeated addition kind

275
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,720
of doesn't really make sense in
that specific like example of

276
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,720
like a story.
We, we spoke about stories,

277
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,600
didn't we?
And how things can express in

278
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,480
the stories, repeated addition
doesn't make sense.

279
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,640
So like, do do you think then I
would say, you know, do you

280
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,720
think what I'm saying in that
sense is that therefore repeated

281
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,800
addition isn't multiplication?
No, I'm saying in that context

282
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,280
of that story, even know it can
give you the same answer and can

283
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:31,600
be represented in different
ways.

284
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,280
In that example of what we're
looking at, there is one way to

285
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,160
describe it.
So that's what I was getting at.

286
00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,200
Is it would you say, or just
listening from what you're

287
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,960
saying right now, would you say
it's important then that in the,

288
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,120
in the context of when children
are learning the literal concept

289
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,880
of what multiplication is, It's
it's, it's important at that

290
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,320
phase being quite pedantic and
be really consistent because

291
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,520
they're literally learning the
concept from scratch.

292
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,320
And then later down that
journey, you don't have to be as

293
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,520
pedantic because you that
concept is kind of embedded now

294
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,400
and we can move on to bigger
concepts and bigger things.

295
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,680
Yeah, and it does get less
relevant the more you move up.

296
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,680
Like, you know, there were so
many commentators, clearly a

297
00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:11,120
secondary teacher and was
talking about a * 15 is 15 A.

298
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,800
And it's the same thing because
your point was like 15 A clearly

299
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,160
means 50 knots of a repeated.
And they were like saying, but a

300
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,640
* 15 is the same thing.
And I was like, yeah, completely

301
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:20,640
it.
It does give you the same

302
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,120
answer.
And you can rearrange stuff, you

303
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,000
can move stuff around.
That's what algebra literally

304
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,640
is.
It's moving things around to get

305
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,240
to the right answer eventually
and having efficiencies in

306
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,040
adding three to both sides of an
equation.

307
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,640
It's like, well, that's that,
that kind of makes no sense

308
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,040
whatsoever when we're just
talking about what an expression

309
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,400
is showing in terms of things
happening, but it helps you get

310
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,120
to an answer in the end.
That's not bad maths, that's

311
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,920
fantastic maths.
And, and I think maybe what I

312
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,240
will say definitely 100% is I, I
was not clear enough in what I

313
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,080
was saying in terms of that's
what I was trying to get AT.

314
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,080
And when I say you're wrong, I I
don't mean you're wrong child in

315
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:56,880
year 6 who's doing this as a
short.

316
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,920
I don't mean that and I don't
mean you're wrong, teacher.

317
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,120
I just mean that if we're, if
we, we should be pedantic when

318
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,600
we're introducing new things and
making explicit links between

319
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,920
stuff, I think we have to be
pedantic at that point.

320
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,760
And that's not a bad thing.
And when children make links and

321
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,160
learn stuff around it and move
stuff around and say, well,

322
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,400
actually, I think 3 * 4 is 3 + 3
+ 3 + 3.

323
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:19,560
I'm not.
I'm not going to say to that

324
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:22,400
kid, no, right?
I'm not going to say no, No,

325
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:23,680
it's not.
It's this, and this really

326
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:25,400
matters.
I'll say that'll get it to the

327
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,640
same answer.
That can be what it can show.

328
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,080
Fine.
But interestingly, there's

329
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:31,600
another way of this.
Which way do you think actually

330
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:32,880
makes more?
You might have that discussion

331
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,680
with the child and then come to
a conclusion with them because

332
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:37,000
what teachers do exactly?
Just to bring it back for a

333
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,920
second, ultimately I feel like
the comments maybe did get out

334
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,160
of hand, but ultimately at the
end of the day someone said to

335
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,040
us, you're wrong, right?
It actually means this.

336
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,440
So we replied with the video of
a couple of people said it and

337
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,840
saying well actually if you want
to be pedantic already, to me

338
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,920
there is actually 1 correct way
and this is what it is.

339
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,040
It realistically the video was
just saying, oh interestingly,

340
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,800
you're not right person who's
commenting this is a fact backed

341
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,400
up.
It's not just me making it up.

342
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,560
This is just a fact.
So if you want to actually be

343
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,280
right, which you clearly care
about because you're commenting

344
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,720
in the 1st place about this
small pedantic thing, right here

345
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:09,880
is the actual correct
information.

346
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,720
It's like, ultimately that is
why that video existed, didn't

347
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:13,600
it?
Probably got blown out of

348
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:14,200
proportion.
A lot.

349
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,320
And this is the thing about
putting posting stuff online,

350
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,080
there is no context ever, ever.
So it's really hard to get

351
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,720
across.
And yeah, and, and there were

352
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,360
people in the middle who, and a
lot of really genuinely nice

353
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,400
people I had really good
conversations with were simply

354
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,360
saying, but it is just both,
isn't it?

355
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,360
Like there was, they were saying
it's just both and that's

356
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,280
different to what you're saying.
And I genuinely like we were

357
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:33,560
talking about it.
We were looking at literally

358
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,920
looking for NCTM together, like
coming back, going forwards

359
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,560
talking about it.
And NCTM literally says later on

360
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,160
in the progression when you
introduce commutativity about

361
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,240
how you can express things as
groups of and you can say things

362
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,080
as times, and you should be
looking at multiplication then

363
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,400
as something you're building on
and can represent multiple

364
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:50,760
things.
Just wholly commutative, that's.

365
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,520
Fine.
Yeah, completely.

366
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,640
I think that's fantastic, I
really do.

367
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,720
But I guess, yeah, what I really
wanted to make clear was we have

368
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,640
to be picky in progression and
from the start to the end point.

369
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,280
We're not going to be in the
same narrow corridor.

370
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,160
I think we should expand as we
move through and understand

371
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:07,680
things.
Oh, I get that now.

372
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,640
I understand that the first one
is groups and then that's how

373
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,520
many.
That's a really important thing

374
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,800
to understand as a child.
Like that's a huge leap even

375
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,800
though it's down in Year 2.
Exactly the context of that

376
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,560
child in that particular time.
Yeah, learning that concept is

377
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:20,160
important.
Yeah.

378
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,480
So when you say, oh, it can be
both ways, it's like, yeah, it

379
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:23,920
can, but you know what?
Slow down for a minute because

380
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,160
you're only in year 2 and
learning.

381
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,320
Let's just let's jump, let's
show them one way.

382
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,280
Let's all do it this one way
because we know we've got

383
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:30,640
consistency across the
curriculum.

384
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,040
And then after that we can, we
can explore all these other

385
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,840
things and forever and more.
It will never matter again.

386
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,000
But just right now, there's a,
there's a optimal way to teach

387
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,320
this concept and this is the
optimal way.

388
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,560
So why wouldn't we just do that
way?

389
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,440
Exactly so as a clip means
saying you're wrong, I can I can

390
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,800
understand in year 4 or 5 is
like, well, I'm not wrong.

391
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,400
I'm like, no, you're not.
And I would teach communitivity

392
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,000
and this is important.
It's a really good learning

393
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,400
point, but I guess I had my head
screwed on from a point of a

394
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,640
progression, yeah.
I think you were too busy trying

395
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,840
to argue me for giving feedback
on what the video should be

396
00:15:58,840 --> 00:15:59,560
about.
So yeah.

397
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,200
Think about there was one.
There was 1 great thing that

398
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,400
happened from that, which was we
spoke about this last week in

399
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,240
the episode, which was I was
trying to contribute to the

400
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,320
video you were making saying we
should address multiplied by

401
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,120
you're like, no, no, because
doesn't mean this thing.

402
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,640
And we had this whole argument.
And in the video I said no it's

403
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,120
OK because someone can just
comment if not.

404
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,920
That's what happened, yeah.
And I said, well, maybe we

405
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:17,840
should address it because
people.

406
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,720
I said that's OK because someone
just commented that's a.

407
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,480
Problem.
They'll comment very first.

408
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,080
Comment very first.
Comment on Facebook.

409
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:24,800
On Facebook, yeah, it really
made me laugh.

410
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,040
Was literally something like oh,
but doesn't the word multiplied

411
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,560
my multiplied by very much just
mean this is multiplied by that

412
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,880
the thing I said that we should
maybe address in the video?

413
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,560
Sweet, sweet, sweet engagement.
To be fair to you, you did, once

414
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,560
we had that conversation, say,
well if someone comments that,

415
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,640
we'll make another video.
So you might be watching it

416
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,480
right now eventually.
Only if he actually remembers to

417
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,320
record this one.
Is it recording?

418
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:48,640
Yeah.
Yeah.

419
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,880
So, yeah, interesting one.
I think it's a want to be picky.

420
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,120
I don't think it's necessarily
bad.

421
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,400
Like people who care about this
just care about looking like

422
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:58,840
they're correct might be a part
of it.

423
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,480
I do like looking like I'm
right, clearly.

424
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,680
But I do think there are lots of
things I don't care about being

425
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:04,520
picky about.
Sure.

426
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,240
I care about being picky about
this because I think it's

427
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,800
important.
Yeah, which is fair enough.

428
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,079
And we?
Can stand by that 100% next one.

429
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,400
I put this in just for you,
Hayden, because I think you will

430
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,560
struggle to do this.
So here's the context.

431
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,119
Desert island children's books.
If you could only teach with

432
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,160
five children's books for the
rest of your life, what 5 would

433
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,560
it be?
I know what you put this in.

434
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:26,839
Because I am not an avid reader
at all.

435
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:27,560
No.
Good job.

436
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,280
What did?
What made you choose the job

437
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,800
where it's really important to
encourage children to read if

438
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:32,920
you don't, Do I look like an
English teacher?

439
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,440
Mate, I'm a maths teacher.
You're a primary school teacher?

440
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:35,360
What?
Listen, I ignored that bit.

441
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,280
You'd be a maths teacher in
secondary school, I ignored.

442
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,800
The the enormous, massive, huge,
most important.

443
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:41,720
Part of the division.
In all seriousness, it's just

444
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,000
one of those things where I was
like, this is my weaker area.

445
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,200
Yeah, I'm not an average reader,
jokes aside.

446
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,720
Most of your class won't be if
we look at the national data.

447
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:50,320
Yeah.
Yeah.

448
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,440
OK.
Do you know what?

449
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,960
You can still get on a society
and have a minimum, right?

450
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:54,680
Yeah.
Do you know what I?

451
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,600
Can do read significantly better
than 10 year olds and

452
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,200
comprehends and teach the skills
and everything we need to do

453
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:01,600
with with reading absolutely
fine.

454
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,960
But not I'm not a huge reader.
I'm always remember feeling

455
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,400
guilty because there'd be lots
of teachers around us or, you

456
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,560
know, on various scales where
they'd be like, Oh yeah, I can't

457
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,480
wait to get to the half term.
I'm going to read these ten

458
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,280
children's books to increase my
knowledge of children's books.

459
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:20,440
And I'd be thinking I'm going to
do these. 10 sums, I'm 1 + 9.

460
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,280
That's what it is.
It's an effort thing for you.

461
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,400
Yeah, yeah.
I was like, no, that's that's

462
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:25,720
not, that's not something I'll
enjoy.

463
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,880
I'm going to earn TT.
Rockstars for 10 minutes and do

464
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,600
my timestables.
Yeah, actually.

465
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,400
That's equal.
However, I did learn through my

466
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,520
teaching career that I
thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed

467
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,360
reading books with kids.
And two kids like that was to

468
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:39,680
me, I was like, I would do this
all the time.

469
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,120
Yeah.
Because I'm getting something

470
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:42,960
out of it that I actually enjoy.
And when it was yourself, me

471
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:44,840
selfish.
When it's just for me, I'm like,

472
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,160
who can I impress?
Who's gonna love me?

473
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,800
For this, well, who's gonna love
me it?

474
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,400
It does shine.
Through hell as you read, when

475
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,920
you try and read something out
loud, I realise what's going on.

476
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:54,800
But let's let's be clear about
that then.

477
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,560
So I've chosen my 5.
You've chosen your five.

478
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:57,480
Yeah.
We've not seen each other's

479
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,320
list.
That might be a Aiden shame.

480
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,960
I reckon he's not even got 5.
Dylan gave me 10 minutes.

481
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,200
I come up with four so but the.
Context here is the questions

482
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,760
very much about what you would
teach with.

483
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,320
OK, so I've I've very much done
books that I've talked with

484
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,000
before.
There is one in here I haven't

485
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,760
actually talked with, but I've
read over the class and I've

486
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,600
thought they should be good for
for teaching as well.

487
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,360
I would want I'd do a unit on
it.

488
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,560
So number one for me.
David Walliams, billionaire boy

489
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,680
#2 David Walliams, gangster
granny #3 David, what you gotta

490
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,640
get us cancelled.
David Walliams grandpa's Great

491
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,520
escape No, of course not.
Just just just very just on that

492
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,360
very quickly because we again
ruffled some feathers.

493
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:39,360
I did, didn't we?
Because people just I, I don't

494
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:42,680
get it where people are so, so,
so quick to try and defend some

495
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,720
like I get having a different
opinion.

496
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,520
That's fine.
But they were just like, you

497
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,400
should never do that just
because, well really should or

498
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:51,160
should.
I never do that.

499
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:52,480
And you don't really make me
laugh.

500
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,480
There was genuinely someone who
truly wrote a comment, which

501
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,360
was, should we just get rid of
Shakespeare because he had

502
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:02,000
questionable views of something?
And I was like, OK, two huge

503
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,320
things here, right?
I'll start with the one that's

504
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,440
less huge, genuine, genuinely,
actually a person from a

505
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,000
different time.
And I get the argument when it's

506
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,400
like, yeah, do you know what, in
the 1500s that there was almost

507
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,800
no one with the same, like,
level of morality we might have

508
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:16,840
now.
And it's incomparable.

509
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,600
So we're comparing it to someone
who's alive now and doing these

510
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,120
things.
So it's like, OK, that is just

511
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:23,480
different.
That's small.

512
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,080
The second thing was to dare to
compare the quality of the work.

513
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,400
Like, what would should we just
been Shakespeare?

514
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,400
No, because it's probably some
of the best stuff that's been

515
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,280
written, like, like ever.
Like, like.

516
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,760
And we're comparing it to
gangster granny.

517
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,640
Yeah, it's like, I'm sorry.
The quality of the work, It

518
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,960
people saying you should only
you should only be picking stuff

519
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,920
on the based on the work itself,
not on the author.

520
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:51,920
OK, won't pick him still then.
OK, OK, we'll just go the

521
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,800
quality then.
Even less likely to pick him

522
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,600
because the only reason he's
being picked is because he's

523
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,360
celebrity that's helping him.
So people that go, we shouldn't

524
00:20:58,360 --> 00:20:59,760
even bother to think about who
the author is.

525
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:01,720
Cool.
In the dustbin, then In the

526
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,280
dustbin, like, completely
irrelevant.

527
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,240
The only thing propping him up
is who he is.

528
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,960
Yeah.
So if we go down that line, it's

529
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,880
like I'm even less likely to
pick it now.

530
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,000
Yeah.
So I think it's such a weak

531
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:12,640
argument.
Funny.

532
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,960
That is, that is so funny.
So your so who is what's your

533
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,400
actual first book?
But they were.

534
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,160
So my first one, my all time
favourite.

535
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,800
I've taught this multiple times.
Oh, let me guess.

536
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,480
Vajack, Paul Vajack, Paul S.
Aside, yeah, Vajack Paul really

537
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,560
good, but kids absolutely love
it.

538
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,160
Yeah, really well written, loads
of opportunities from writing

539
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,880
and inspiration and, you know,
setting, you know, in the big

540
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,040
city.
And I loved how because it's

541
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,400
obviously from the point of view
of the cat, there's things in

542
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,520
there that are described as
like, I, I think, you know, cars

543
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,640
are described as dogs, you know,
So you get this really good

544
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,480
opportunity to explain stuff
through other means and like,

545
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,080
almost like metaphors in these,
all the figurative language.

546
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,720
There's loads of loads of
opportunities and the story's

547
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,040
just good as well.
It's like a proper adventure

548
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,640
story move a villain and, and a
story all the way through.

549
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,400
So that's the yeah.
I knew that was because you

550
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,120
spoke out a lot passionately and
yeah, it's cool.

551
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,480
I think I feel like I have one
that that I'm that passion.

552
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,600
We didn't tennis.
We didn't tennis because I have

553
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,600
one that came straight to my
mind where I genuinely I've

554
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,600
taught it for like 4 years in a
row and every single time I'm

555
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,200
like, yes, I get to read this
book in with the kids and the

556
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,520
kids love it.
Which is letters from the

557
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,200
Lighthouse by Emma Carroll.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's.

558
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,920
Such a good.
Book Why the kid OK Is it about

559
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,120
the teaching or about the.
Quality of the book, all of it.

560
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:22,800
This.
Is why it's perfect.

561
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,200
It's a bit like that one.
It's like it's got a bit of

562
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,680
everything, like the quality,
the teaching you can get from

563
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,800
it's great because it's really,
it's really well structured and

564
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,080
each chapter is like almost
stand alone in terms of you can

565
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,200
just get so much good, like rich
stuff out of it that you can

566
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,800
teach anything on any chapter,
which is amazing.

567
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,520
And obviously you've got the
story, the arc that just goes

568
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,120
through and the kids every
single year without fail are

569
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:44,280
unbelievably engaged by it.
And I can't argue with that.

570
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,080
I'm sort of like, that's what
that's beyond me now.

571
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,280
I'm like, there's only so many
years I can teach this in a row

572
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,160
where I get the exact same
response every time before I

573
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,880
have to just say this is clearly
just a fantastic book because

574
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,240
kids just love it.
I think they like World War Two

575
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,000
things anyway because they're
just sort of fascinated by that

576
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,000
topic in general.
But do you?

577
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,640
Do you think there's a link
between then like the quality of

578
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,000
the text and the hook of the
children?

579
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:05,680
The hook of the children is
really important, right.

580
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,600
But I think also I will say that
early in my career when I did

581
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,200
read Alan's books to my class
just as a as a book to read,

582
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:12,640
they were absolutely hooked as
well.

583
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,160
Yeah, of course.
And like the quality of the text

584
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,640
though is incomparable to me
when I look at that and some of

585
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:17,720
this stuff I've been saying
here.

586
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,440
So you know, that hook, whilst
it's important, do you think

587
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,400
it's is that the be all and end
all or do you think what you

588
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,280
said is a good book for multiple
reasons?

589
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:29,880
How important is the hook?
Yeah, I, I.

590
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,960
Think the quality of the text is
probably higher if we if we're

591
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,760
ranked.
They're both important, I think,

592
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:34,760
because you can hook kids in
lots.

593
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:35,760
Of ways, yeah, and.
And I can.

594
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,880
Think of some stories that we've
like, books we've read over the

595
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,760
years where from the blurb and
the picture, like the kids are

596
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:42,720
like, oh, this is going to be
good.

597
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,160
And even I've thought this is
going to be great.

598
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,520
Like I love the premise of this
and actually the quality of the

599
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,400
text, like basically ruins it
and the kids don't like it.

600
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,640
So like clearly the hook alone
is not enough.

601
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,040
You do.
You actually do just need a

602
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,560
really, really well and when
you're when you're.

603
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,960
Modelling writing to the
children and the level of

604
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,840
writing isn't even at the level
you need to be out in Year 6.

605
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,800
It's quite frustrating
sometimes.

606
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,080
Like I'm not saying it's always
right, like there has to be a

607
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,520
comma there because of this
grammar rule that's really

608
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:06,840
important.
It's like, it can be

609
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,680
frustrating, but there is a
level you've got to have as well

610
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,080
where if you're doing a waggle
what a good one looks like and

611
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,720
you're using a book, it has to
be up to standard.

612
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:15,520
Yeah, definitely.
Although I.

613
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,920
I'd say I've not really
encountered that in terms I've

614
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,360
never really read a book from an
author and and actually thought

615
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,000
God, this isn't up to standard
David Adams.

616
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,440
Oh, oh, in terms of like the
grammar and punctuation stuff

617
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,960
like just the way it's.
Written as well, yeah, like no,

618
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,240
but.
And, and like even at points

619
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,200
where it's like the richest, the
common missing there, like the

620
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,400
front of the verbials and things
like that, that's quite common.

621
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,120
And you get that in a lot of
books where the authors don't

622
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:38,640
exactly follow it.
And I think there's a really

623
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,160
good learning point there for
the children, which is just, we

624
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,200
are jumping through hoops here
kids and clearly you can be

625
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,480
successful, but having to do all
this.

626
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,920
And I think it says more about
what we expect from the kids.

627
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,680
But it is what I'm saying is
there is a line where it's like

628
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,040
it has to be at a certain level
though.

629
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:51,760
No, I agree.
I was just.

630
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,200
Misunderstanding your point?
Go on then.

631
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,560
Go for your next one.
My next one.

632
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,840
I could have picked anything by
this author, by Anthony Brown,

633
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,640
any of his picture books.
You know, Anthony Brown books

634
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:01,720
are the ones who like the big
gorilla.

635
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:02,520
Yeah, that's right.
I'm trying.

636
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:03,880
To think why I got this because
I've read.

637
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,920
Them a pretty I, I chose Voices
in a Park.

638
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,320
I think that's a good one.
We did that in Year 5 as a unit,

639
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,760
but we have done so many of his
books where I'll talk in general

640
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,760
because they're such quality
picture books and the story is

641
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,320
so vivid in them without there
being loads of words and taking

642
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,720
away that barrier for the
children.

643
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,440
I found as a teacher, they loved
it.

644
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,600
They loved doing a picture book
and it didn't matter how old

645
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,920
they were.
We've done that in year 6 as

646
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,080
well, like we've done all the
way through the school where

647
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,320
maybe at one point in in in the
year, most schools will do this.

648
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:33,840
Well, they say this week we're
all doing a picture book.

649
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,480
Yeah, and even sometimes the
same picture book.

650
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,400
And I love stuff like that.
And I've got more like that

651
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,240
actually later that was
mentioned before.

652
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,360
But yeah, Anthony Brown,
fantastic.

653
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:45,320
Because there's so much you can
take out of it.

654
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,040
And again, so much inspiration
for writing as well.

655
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,720
And you can even get some art in
there.

656
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,960
You can even get some almost
like comic book strips for the

657
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,480
children and tell a story in
different ways.

658
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,520
And yeah, they're completely
hooked.

659
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,880
My point of view as a teacher,
that's really important.

660
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,600
And then again, the quality is
really high as well.

661
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,480
And for me, what I've noticed in
those is it can be quite scary

662
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,680
sometimes to think, well, you
know, even I've just said myself

663
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,160
then how important, you know,
modelling text is to the

664
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,600
children.
How on earth can you do with a

665
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,360
picture book?
Oh my God, you can when the

666
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:15,600
picture book is a quality like
that.

667
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,160
So definitely them.
That's cool.

668
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:17,560
I was.
I was.

669
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,600
Thinking about picture books as
well.

670
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,680
I had I had this wasn't my list,
but I just think it's quite good

671
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,240
in general.
Was the tunnel and it's annoying

672
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,920
me because I'm buying it and I'm
in my head.

673
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,000
I'm like, is that by Anthony
Brown?

674
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:25,800
Right?
But I don't know.

675
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,200
I'll look it up in a SEC.
But the tunnel is another one in

676
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,880
years, even in year 6 where I'm
like, there's barely any worse

677
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,160
at this at all.
And we we can draw so much.

678
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,120
It is anti brown.
Is it?

679
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:37,040
Yeah, I thought it might be
yeah.

680
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,960
When you said anti brown, I'm
sure that's the time as well.

681
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:41,560
But that's another yeah, great
example of it's quite a simple

682
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,960
story really.
But you could you did the kids

683
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,880
drawing out it will the
inference from the, you know,

684
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,280
from the pictures.
It's just fantastic.

685
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,160
So my actual second one, I mean,
again, it's very generic here,

686
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,960
but it is just a hit with the
kids, the line, the witch and

687
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,040
the wardrobe.
Lewis.

688
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,080
I used to teach that in year.
Four, I haven't taught it for

689
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,320
years but it was always my fate.
Probably like top, top 2

690
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,920
favourites in year 4 to teach
because I just found the

691
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,640
descriptive writing and just
generally enjoying the

692
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,600
description would like really
captivate the kids and they

693
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,440
would try very hard to mimic
that style of writing.

694
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,480
I felt like it was written in a
way that was really great for

695
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,040
younger kids to actually
genuinely try and like it was a

696
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,440
good model text to actually
write like that and then

697
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,440
describe things in the same way.
You could just get.

698
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,280
Yeah, you get such great
activities out of that book.

699
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,120
Yeah.
Amazing.

700
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,200
OK, so next one for me.
I've I've said this before

701
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,320
because it's an amazing book
just to read, but I think

702
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,520
there's lots of learning
opportunities in the book with

703
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,080
no pictures.
BJ Novak.

704
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,640
Oh yeah, you mentioned.
It fantastic.

705
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,600
I absolutely love that.
But we did a we did a reel about

706
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,320
it and that went quite viral
because a lot of people love

707
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,760
that book as well.
But when you look at again, if

708
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,480
I'm talking about with teaching,
especially with younger

709
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,080
children, I mean, like lower key
stage 2, right?

710
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,000
It's like year three-year 4.
There's so many opportunities in

711
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,800
there for things like
onomatopoeia for, you know, when

712
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,440
you do, when you write poems,
and I can't remember what it's

713
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,680
called, but when like words are
in the shape of what they are.

714
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,400
If you read through that book a
lot of the time, you know, if

715
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,480
you say block, it's written
maybe like a robot if it wants

716
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,800
you to do a robot voice and then
and then you do a monkey voice.

717
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,760
And it's a really good link for
children to see how you can tell

718
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,920
a story for more than just the
words on the page.

719
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,560
How the words are written and
what they look like despite

720
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,440
there being no pictures.
Even so, it's like another

721
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,200
evolution from the Anthony Brown
stuff.

722
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,080
This time there are no pictures,
but it's still, I would say, to

723
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,840
the children, it's
representation and the way you

724
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,800
say out loud as a performance
will change based on what the

725
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,320
words look like on the page.
And it's just a really nice way

726
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,280
again, of getting in there.
Some auracy, some reading out

727
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,320
loud, some performance.
And then also as like a side

728
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,200
bit, I'd say still important is
a bit of writing from it, but

729
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,280
just just noticing that when
you're teaching with a book in

730
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,000
school, the end goal doesn't
always have to be a piece of

731
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,800
writing.
So the end goal with that would

732
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,440
be performance, confidence,
reading out loud, putting on

733
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,440
voices, louder, softer, higher,
lower pitch, you know, pace, all

734
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,400
that kind of stuff.
Really important to teach kids

735
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:54,800
and books like that really that
you do that.

736
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,800
Something I think will be.
Really important soon because

737
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,080
the new curriculum has talked
about Oracy a lot and I think

738
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,720
that hopefully will get a bit
more put on a pedestal, you

739
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,760
know, and prioritised.
So my next one is is 1.

740
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,440
It's a fairly recent one.
So I taught this last year in

741
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,440
year 6 and it's the Boy in the
Tower by Polly Ho Yen.

742
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,160
It's it's pretty cool.
Is that like a post?

743
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,320
Apocalyptic one.
Yeah.

744
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:14,720
Yeah.
Which I.

745
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,840
Think is a really cool concept
to explore with kids because

746
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,440
you've got to be careful and
tell you how you do it, but it

747
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,400
like it's often quite new for
them and it's the.

748
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:21,920
Adult stuff, isn't it?
Exactly.

749
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,640
You don't really.
Expect many kids books to be

750
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,400
like sort of post apocalyptic,
but they do it in a really

751
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,640
obviously an appropriate way.
But it's really, it's just a

752
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,440
cool concept because the kids
are sort of mind blown of like

753
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,400
this idea that like the world is
ending and you following this

754
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,760
character as everything just you
know, goes, goes to part like

755
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,880
yeah, it's really cool, but
really good for suspense,

756
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,680
tension, like really good
character building because it's

757
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,960
it's like pretty much all takes
place in in like within one or

758
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,000
two rooms and there's like
there's only like 4 or five main

759
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:46,680
characters.
That's it.

760
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:48,320
So.
Not necessarily.

761
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,280
Not necessarily the best in the
world for like a setting

762
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,680
description, but but you can
still do it, obviously, I'm

763
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,120
sure.
But but like it has its

764
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,200
strengths in the fact that it
develops character so well.

765
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,400
So kind of.
Yeah, Hilariously.

766
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,360
It's really good for saying
description only because of 1

767
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,280
context of the story, which is
the world around them in this

768
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,280
tower is like describe this
being taken over basically like

769
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,720
plant aliens, yeah.
Yeah, so you can do.

770
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,400
This you can do like one really
cool same description of the

771
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,640
whole premise.
That's good.

772
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,320
But yeah, you wouldn't get loads
of different ones.

773
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:13,800
Yeah, but different.
Books have different strengths

774
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:14,360
as well.
Exactly.

775
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:14,600
Yeah.
Cool.

776
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,360
Well, that's three H.
I'm going to say my last two

777
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:17,360
really quickly, but I'm not
going to.

778
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,080
I'm going to dwell on them.
Next one.

779
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,160
I've mentioned this before. 1 is
a snail tender to crab another

780
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,240
picture, but I love that.
But I had to say it because it's

781
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,440
in terms of, again, when you
think of books to teach, I bet

782
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,480
lots of people went straight to
like units of work they've done.

783
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,240
I tried to be a bit different
with this amazing for maths in

784
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,080
terms of, you know, you can read
books in maths and we talked

785
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,440
about how important stories are
in maths and understanding what

786
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,840
number is and how it's
represented.

787
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,640
I think that that's a really,
really good one for introducing

788
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,040
algebra.
Essentially, you know, even at a

789
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,880
low, low, low level about what
kind of crab represent, Why does

790
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,560
it represent 10?
You can physically count the 10

791
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,720
legs if you want, or you can
just start thinking of crab AC

792
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:49,840
if you're higher up in the
school.

793
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,360
Remember doing bits and bobs
like that.

794
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,760
And my final one, not something
I've done a unit on, but a book

795
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,960
that I read to my class and I
thought I would be very much

796
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,920
willing to do a unit of work on
this because it was well

797
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:01,720
written, had really good themes
throughout it.

798
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,440
That was a boy in the back of
the class Enjoy Ralph.

799
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,080
So very relatively recent again,
but a big one.

800
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,720
A little bit of A twist towards
the end.

801
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,040
I say, not really, more like a
reveal towards the end that I

802
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,960
remember myself and the whole
class just like, oh, and again,

803
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,240
I love that idea of taking wider
things from literature in

804
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,200
general and exposing children to
it.

805
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,560
So this idea of cliffhangers,
this idea of A twist and this

806
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,000
idea of, you know, anything
we've talked about in this whole

807
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,680
section here really, which is
like as adult readers, we take

808
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,920
for granted as as educators,
we've got a chance to pick

809
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,120
quality books that do that and
introduce this idea.

810
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,400
It could be a genre, it could be
a way of storytelling, It could

811
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,080
be a point of view.
It could be, like we said about

812
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,360
a theme.
And you know this is to do with

813
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,520
migration as well and worry
everyone for your froth at the

814
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,160
mouth because you've been
watching too much GB news.

815
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,240
It's not indoctrination or
anything like that, but it's

816
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,720
just, it's just explaining a
thing that happens to our

817
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:53,880
children in the world they live
in.

818
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,080
Why was migration mentioned in
any context that isn't saying

819
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,440
it's all over my country?
Why are you wearing a blanket

820
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,680
that's not a Saint George's
flag?

821
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,360
Oh my God.
You're getting too comfortable,

822
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:10,720
mate.
Listeners aren't right in front

823
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,320
of us saying they're frothing
out the mouth.

824
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,800
Yeah, well, no, not maybe not
you, but someone that listeners,

825
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,080
they wouldn't do that.
They're sophisticated people,

826
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,200
Dylan, I reckon if you.
Painted a roundabout, you

827
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,640
wouldn't like what I just said
and I don't care.

828
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:24,880
And if you.
Painted a roundabout that you're

829
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,640
not listening to, not.
Got this far?

830
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,080
You're not listening to this
podcast.

831
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,480
And if you are, reflect on
yourself.

832
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:31,520
All right, Yeah.
Go and paint a roundabout.

833
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,040
Go paint a.
Roundabout and reflect.

834
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,520
Yeah.
Well, to be honest, I'll just

835
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,400
wrap it up there because my, my,
they were the three I thought

836
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,080
of.
And then and then from that on

837
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,280
point on was I was just rattling
through books that I've done

838
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,680
with over the years and I like
none of them were inspiring

839
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:44,800
enough.
Like I see with loads of Roald

840
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,920
Dahl books, Mark more, Pogo
books with loads of Jerry Strong

841
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,440
books, Michael Moore.
Pogo always find it hard to say

842
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,320
that.
And I was like, people know

843
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,520
those ones.
I don't know if I want to

844
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,280
recommend them necessarily.
OK, we can start there.

845
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:56,560
That's good stuff out.
Yeah, absolutely.

846
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,800
Fantastic.
OK, hope you enjoyed that next

847
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,640
one.
Now the 6-7 trend is dying out.

848
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,400
What's the craziest fad that you
remember both as a teacher and a

849
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,360
child?
I don't know about you one.

850
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:09,960
One comes to my mind
immediately.

851
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,720
I got one in my mind as.
Well, when we were in primary

852
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,360
school, I'm thinking secondary
school.

853
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,160
OK, so I'm going to.
Go for my primary school on

854
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,880
first hand.
Anyone who is about 30 in their

855
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,240
early 30s will surely remember
this when when there was a

856
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,200
wristband for every course
possible.

857
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,640
So it's all right.
So it's do you remember?

858
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:26,720
It's starting a run.
Yeah.

859
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,120
We start off the yellow
Livestrong one.

860
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Then it was like say no to

861
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,120
racism, which came as a two.
There was a black and a white

862
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,440
one intertwined, right.
And then you wore that.

863
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,600
But then there was like the
Poppy Legion, like that year

864
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,960
release one that went around and
there were kids walking around

865
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,200
school.
And I can imagine now as a

866
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,440
teacher being like, I, I can't
tell them no, it's for cancer.

867
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,960
Yeah, but I can't.
It's for it's saying that take

868
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,120
off your anti racism badge that
you don't want to see that.

869
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,280
But like, like there were,
there's 678 and there were some

870
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,040
kids, we just like collected
them and we'd swap, I'd buy like

871
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,520
I'd have a Livestrong one
already.

872
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,000
I'd buy another Livestrong one
because I could and it was

873
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,080
there.
I'd take it into school and be

874
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,120
like, I'll swap your Livestrong
for a, for a, you know, aids one

875
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,840
or whatever.
What do you think of?

876
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:07,800
Aids.
Honestly, no.

877
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,320
Just.
No, Yeah, you get the bone.

878
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,960
I know.
I mean, when you actually think

879
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,320
about what's happening, you just
say it.

880
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,920
Yeah, kids.
Walk around AIDS, bands, cats,

881
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,080
bands, they never know what it
is.

882
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:18,560
Bands.
Yeah.

883
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:20,480
And they're just traded them
like you said like it's.

884
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,199
Like it's Yu-gi-oh, my God, but
it's like horrible illnesses

885
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,520
that people imagine.
You mean a teacher like your

886
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:26,800
family members going through
something.

887
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,760
It's like I missed got one of
these today traded it didn't

888
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,120
want that one to be more.
I didn't want this one and

889
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,000
that's.
The thing, your family is

890
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,280
struggling.
Oh, great.

891
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,120
Thanks for bringing it up.
Yeah, I really.

892
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,560
Really.
Really vividly remember that.

893
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:40,560
That is, that is.
Such a distant, like deep

894
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:41,679
memory.
Now you've said it, I can

895
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,040
vividly remember being in like
the toilets where people would

896
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,199
be trading because I don't want
to go to lesson all over that

897
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:46,840
trade.
The band.

898
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,159
Yeah, literally, literally so
funny.

899
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:49,920
Oh, that's funny.
You you thought of like a quite

900
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,159
a fun fad.
I thought something really

901
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,560
annoying that came to my mind,
what we were in secondary.

902
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:55,400
Yeah, like at the craze.
I feel like maybe it's still

903
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:56,639
around.
Well I haven't heard of it or

904
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:58,840
seen in a long time.
Do you remember when benching

905
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,240
was so like prevalent?
And for anyone who doesn't know,

906
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,960
bushing was equally annoying.
I thought benching was a sorry

907
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,520
it's.
So funny how uninspiring the

908
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,360
names are.
What happens when you push

909
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,040
someone?
Yeah, Jack in the Bush fire.

910
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,160
In the Bush what?
About you bench.

911
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,760
Someone push my bench, yeah.
Yeah, but but for you was like,

912
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,680
so benching, maybe, maybe it's
different.

913
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,680
P90 benching was always if
someone stands, goes in their

914
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,040
hands and knees behind you.
Yeah, yeah.

915
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,160
It wasn't an actual bench.
No, no.

916
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,120
But you pretend you're a bench
and then and then someone else

917
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,080
pushes you over them.
I feel my job.

918
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,440
To you, mate.
Just to me, yeah.

919
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,640
Daily, daily, no.
But there was definitely a phase

920
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,560
where like everyone I knew, like
whether it was friend or in your

921
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,480
group or different groups,
everyone was just benching

922
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,320
everyone and it was so annoying.
You couldn't, you couldn't take,

923
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,560
you couldn't talk to someone
without thinking, are they

924
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,080
actually talking to me or
they're coming over to start

925
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,760
conversations to someone here
behind me and bench me.

926
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,440
And you got to the point where
it was like everyone would have

927
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,480
a conversation.
We'd all turn around and look

928
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,040
behind us.
Just make sure.

929
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,680
You'd be in a circle, all facing
out having a conversation

930
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,080
because you can't be sure.
Are you sure you're not getting

931
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,360
benched?
Were you the bencher or the?

932
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,240
Benchee normally did a bit of
both, did a bit of both.

933
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,400
Yeah, because it seems happened.
To me, I was like, right,

934
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:02,520
there's only there's only one
way around.

935
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:04,840
I even need to become the
Bencher.

936
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,640
Yeah, yeah, Forever be the
Benchee.

937
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,320
Exactly.
And I thought myself, let's just

938
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,360
do it.
That's just like secondary.

939
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,000
School rules, isn't it?
If you got a fight to survive,

940
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,320
you know, 100%, a hundred
percent, 100%.

941
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,200
Yeah, like I said, peanut in as
well.

942
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,800
Yeah, it was very basic, very
annoying one, but why was that

943
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:19,400
see that one?
Why was that called peanut?

944
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:21,920
Don't know is it because it?
Didn't make a shape for.

945
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,000
Peanut or peanut because it's
so.

946
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,560
Tight, that was a good cure to
that one.

947
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:25,440
Wasn't there though.
What's that?

948
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,040
Good preventative, which was to
put a 50P coin in your tie.

949
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,360
You ever learned that one?
Yes, I forgot about.

950
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,560
That I did that for a while.
When you still do when you wear

951
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,880
ties now.
Just in case, Yeah, just in

952
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:35,480
case.
The kids.

953
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:36,800
Do it.
I forgot that was.

954
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,960
A thing like you're paying to
play at that point, literally.

955
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,520
Yeah, Peanut, I'll take that.
Winky yeah, I'll just take the.

956
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,280
Tie and the 50 back when you
could get dinner for 50 page.

957
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,080
Yeah, literally.
I'd take him a pound for a bacon

958
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,120
roll every morning at a great,
great time.

959
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,840
So my friend did.
It's funny.

960
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,400
Funny, right?
That was we.

961
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,200
We had a group of us who used to
sit around at break time every

962
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,680
day and with for some reason,
we'd sit around a bin and it was

963
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,720
the bin, all right.
We'd sit around a big bin in the

964
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:03,760
middle.
It was the bin crew.

965
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,720
Mental anyway, so that every day
the canteen would open at break

966
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:10,840
time and they'd sell like, bacon
rolls and stuff like this.

967
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,320
Just like I can imagine right
now, It's like what?

968
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,240
Pre Jamie Oliver.
Yeah, yeah.

969
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:17,000
Probably for the best, really,
that we started out.

970
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,240
Anyway, every single day.
There was one person in our

971
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:23,000
little group who'd go and buy a
bacon roll, right.

972
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:29,080
Who?
I'd go and buy a bacon roll and

973
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,760
he didn't want the bacon, right?
What?

974
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,160
Go and buy bacon roll, right?
Go and buy bacon roll, come back

975
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,840
and then get us all to persuade
him as to why we should have the

976
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,320
bacon from the bacon roll.
He just wanted the oily bread at

977
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,120
the end.
And we go around each day.

978
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,760
Someone get the bacon, pass it
to you.

979
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:47,960
It's like, yeah, you get the
bacon today.

980
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,160
And there was an initiation to
get into the bin crew, right?

981
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,280
We were just like making stuff
at this point.

982
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,800
If you wanted to come and sit in
the bin crew, we were like 12.

983
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,840
We weren't 8 like we were 12:30.
We were getting older.

984
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,920
So again, every day someone
brought in a salt and shake.

985
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:03,560
You know where you used to put
the salt?

986
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:03,920
Yeah.
Yeah.

987
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,000
Mental.
I don't know why that was

988
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,880
strange.
But anyway, so the white packet,

989
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,560
whereas plain crisp, you put the
salt in Again, that kid didn't

990
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,080
want the salt, so just wanted
the plain crisps.

991
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:11,840
I had them every day.
Yeah.

992
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,120
So initiation, if you want to
join the group, you have to take

993
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,400
the salt sachet and eat it down.
Down the salt, down the salt,

994
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,720
down the salt.
OK, you can sit in the big crew.

995
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:20,080
And now you might be allowed
bacon.

996
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:21,360
If you win, you win.
You're bacon.

997
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:27,000
There's layers to this, yeah.
100% it's weird, basically fads

998
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,840
and and things you make up and
just just mentalism.

999
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:30,680
Yeah.
You have to remember though.

1000
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,560
Because I feel like it's so easy
to lose touch as an adult, even

1001
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:34,880
with like the kids at primary
school, It's hot.

1002
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,360
You forget most of your time at
primary school, but the kids

1003
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,480
will do weird stuff and, and
sometimes your gut reaction be

1004
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,520
like, what are you doing?
Like no sensible learning.

1005
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,960
And then you remember.
You remember the salt shaker.

1006
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,840
You I.
Bench someone whilst eating

1007
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,880
someone's left of a bacon with a
sachet of salt in the back of my

1008
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:51,960
throat.
Yeah, Yeah.

1009
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,840
So it all makes sense now.
It all makes sense.

1010
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,000
Did I?
Did I once fill a bag with rock

1011
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,920
salt because I thought it was
funny for my mate to take it

1012
00:38:58,920 --> 00:38:59,760
into class?
Yeah.

1013
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:01,240
You know, did we do these
things?

1014
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,560
You just do random things in
your gear, OK?

1015
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:04,680
Right.
Let's let's do one more

1016
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,160
question.
OK, we're in that time here.

1017
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:06,960
We're not running.
We can.

1018
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,600
We can just as long as we want.
Run that time.

1019
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,960
Running that myself.
Our producer of.

1020
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,520
Somewhere is telling us, oh boys
got another meeting to get to.

1021
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,120
I've only got this studio.
For a while but we're getting

1022
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,360
too cold.
Need to put the rats on.

1023
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,560
OK last question, how did you
know it was time to leave

1024
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,280
teaching?
I know your reasons, but how did

1025
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,600
you know in your gut that it was
genuinely now the time to take

1026
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,960
the leap?
Quick thing that made before

1027
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,080
you, I want your answer on this
first.

1028
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,520
But what this really made me
think when I'm going to answer

1029
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,120
it first.
I do like to do that, but I'm

1030
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,240
going to say now what this
really made me realise was like

1031
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,960
the the reasons were there for a
long time and this question is

1032
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,680
really interesting because it's
basically saying, yeah, OK, I

1033
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,360
know the reasons, but there was
a point where you went, do you

1034
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,360
know what?
Yeah, these reasons are right.

1035
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,320
And when was that for you?
So.

1036
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:54,560
True.
Isn't it because I was got?

1037
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:57,080
There was a moment, wasn't it?
Probably We spoke.

1038
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,040
It was about two years before I
quit, no.

1039
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,760
It can't have been though,
because he carried on like but

1040
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,840
I.
Knew I should and I wanted to

1041
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,160
OK, that's that maybe that maybe
I'm interpreting differently

1042
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,160
about two years before I quit I
decided in my head I'm going to

1043
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:11,640
quit right.
OK, I'm going to quit at some

1044
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,720
point soon like when I get as
soon as I can basically all

1045
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:15,080
right.
Whereas before that I didn't

1046
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,000
think that go into that then.
We'll do both.

1047
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:19,080
Then we got time.
I think we got time, Producer.

1048
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,680
All right.
Yeah, we got time.

1049
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,840
Cool.
OK, so there's two where you

1050
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,880
literally decided to quit, but
then you're going back two years

1051
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,280
to be like, I will quit.
Yeah.

1052
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,920
What was that job?
Was that more of like a thing

1053
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,800
happened or was or that was
more?

1054
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,720
Circumstantial, I guess, in
terms of I just was waiting for

1055
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:38,160
the right literal circumstances
to be able to do it.

1056
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:39,760
Now, what made you?
Think I'm going to?

1057
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,120
Oh, the first bit, right?
Literally the very.

1058
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,560
Very first bit I think it was.
Because I realised I didn't care

1059
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,080
about stuff I cared about
before.

1060
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,880
That sounds really bad, but
there were like the little

1061
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,880
things I would, I just, I was
felt so disenfranchised by

1062
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,880
education that I couldn't be
bothered to put in the effort

1063
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,800
for little things anymore that I
definitely used to put in effort

1064
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:57,800
despite knowing all these
things.

1065
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,400
The reasons still before, I
think when I realised I was just

1066
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,720
not really doing the little
things anymore.

1067
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,680
And sometimes there's even just
like, like there's no reason not

1068
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,160
to do it.
It's like I clearly just didn't.

1069
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,040
I wasn't in it anymore in my
head.

1070
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,360
Like I might do a little thing
with the kids or the Tasmania or

1071
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,280
Christmas or and I just wasn't
doing that anymore.

1072
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,040
Naturally I wasn't doing, I
wasn't thinking about it.

1073
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,320
I was like, I't just not in it
anymore.

1074
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,720
Like I still love loads of
elements of the job.

1075
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,000
Yeah, but they're bits of the
passion that have just gone.

1076
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:25,880
Yeah.
And I just don't think I want

1077
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,360
to, to live my life like that.
Whereas.

1078
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:29,480
But you'll be.
You're right, though, because

1079
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:30,920
it's not like I learnt anything
new.

1080
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,880
Yeah.
All the reason I still moan

1081
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,600
about the same things six years
before.

1082
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,280
Yeah, systemic.
But there was still something

1083
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,040
burning driving inside me where
I was like, I can override it.

1084
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,880
So maybe that the balance just
tipped somewhere in my head of

1085
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,200
things stopped doing those
things.

1086
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:44,920
It must have tipped.
But I didn't even realise at

1087
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,280
first.
So subconsciously tipped.

1088
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,160
Subconsciously.
Yeah.

1089
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:48,480
And then.
And then at some point, I think

1090
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,240
about two years before I quit, I
was, I realised it.

1091
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:53,680
And I was like, I used to, I
used to do that.

1092
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:54,640
I used to.
I would have done that.

1093
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,040
I never, I never would have
forgotten to do that.

1094
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,960
I definitely would have at the
weekend thought about this.

1095
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,440
And I was like, I couldn't be
bothered to do any of those

1096
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,240
things anymore.
And I was like, yeah, I think

1097
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:05,880
I'm falling out of love with
this job enough to think I

1098
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,160
should probably stop doing it
enough that you can't.

1099
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,680
Justify the things that you
don't want to do anymore,

1100
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,480
because in any walk of life,
like let's not get this, let's

1101
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,560
not people misunderstand our
current situation.

1102
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,440
We're still working a lot and
absolutely still find ourselves

1103
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,320
doing stuff we don't necessarily
want to do.

1104
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,040
Sure, but you're saying even if
we've been teaching, although

1105
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,920
that's still true, those things
you're finding yourself not been

1106
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,600
poverty to them and just the
line went too close.

1107
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:28,920
I'm being passion blocked.
Almost.

1108
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,880
I was passionate about
delivering education to kids.

1109
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:34,000
Yeah.
And I, there were too many

1110
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,120
blockers where it's like, I
can't even, I can't even truly

1111
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,480
enjoy that bit anymore, which is
the literal bit that I love.

1112
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,680
And the reason I went to this
job because there's so many

1113
00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:44,480
external factors that are just
ruining that for me that I can't

1114
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,200
even go home and say I enjoyed
teaching the kids anymore

1115
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,200
because there's things that
ruined it.

1116
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,440
And like when it was getting
hard, when it was getting more

1117
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,880
towards that, that's when I was
like, I'm going to quit.

1118
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,800
I need, I have to, I have to.
And then when obviously, you

1119
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,840
know, and, but you know, it's
not like we just then just

1120
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,200
waited around and hoped it would
happen from that point on.

1121
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,160
And was, I was actively building
a life where I was like, OK,

1122
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,120
well, let's try and set myself
up into a situation where I can.

1123
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:06,840
And that's a really good point
because.

1124
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,000
Yeah, we're looking at that
question is in your gut.

1125
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,480
When did you know you've
actually answered that question,

1126
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,320
to be fair perfectly, because
that is when you knew.

1127
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,200
But it's not realistic to say
that when someone's gut goes,

1128
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,560
they can just quit tomorrow.
Yeah, exactly.

1129
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,840
So, yeah, you have to do
something about it.

1130
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,400
Like it took two years from that
point.

1131
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,120
And it was still a risk,
ultimately.

1132
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:25,760
Yeah, we tried to.
Minimise the risk though, of

1133
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,360
course.
But you knew, you knew.

1134
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,840
You knew in five years you
couldn't be teaching, so you

1135
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,080
started doing something.
Yeah, yeah.

1136
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,000
And do you know?
What else is true?

1137
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,600
Just to throw a complete span in
the works here, I I reckon if I

1138
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,040
got a teaching job next
September, like 80% of my

1139
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,480
passion would be returned.
And I think a lot of, a lot of

1140
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,360
it, I just needed a break
genuinely.

1141
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,520
I actually, I actually think I
went back into a classroom in

1142
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,480
September.
I would gain loads of those

1143
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,760
things back that if I just
carried on, I still wouldn't be

1144
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,160
doing.
But do you think a year off I

1145
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,400
would?
Do you think you'd lose it?

1146
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,520
Quickly as well, probably.
Probably that's what I think.

1147
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:56,760
I, I agree with you completely,
I think.

1148
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,400
Let's say I got a job in
September again until Christmas,

1149
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,800
I'd be like a man reborn right?
But towards the end of that

1150
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,320
second term and then off January
and stuff, I can imagine it

1151
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,840
wouldn't take me 7 years to
realise it again.

1152
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,680
No, it would probably take me
less than one to be like I'd

1153
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:14,480
have to go.
With a different purpose,

1154
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,680
though, I'd have.
If I went back in, I'd have to

1155
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:17,440
be like what?
What?

1156
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:18,160
What would you?
Purpose.

1157
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,920
I don't know, maybe like.
Maybe I would be like, cool, I'm

1158
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,400
going to, I'm going to try and
move up into SLT and make a

1159
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,120
difference for this school like
you wouldn't want to.

1160
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,760
Repeat what you've done,
basically.

1161
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,040
Yeah, I wouldn't.
Want because I feel like I know

1162
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:29,880
what the ending is.
So like I'd have to go in with a

1163
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,920
different goal of like, cool,
I'm going to go back in and I'm

1164
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,120
going to try and find my passion
again.

1165
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:34,840
But I'm going to really going to
tackle this one thing that I

1166
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:36,400
didn't maybe didn't focus on
before.

1167
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,600
And I want to become this member
of staff in the school that's

1168
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,400
the champion of this and that's
going to be my thing now.

1169
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,680
Like I I'd have to go back in
with something.

1170
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,880
I don't know what that is right
now, but it would be something I

1171
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:45,920
wouldn't just shouldn't be
enough.

1172
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,600
No, I don't think.
So no, no, not not enough.

1173
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,160
I've done it, I've done, I've
done it for a long time and I'd

1174
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,360
happily take it on again, but
like, but it wouldn't.

1175
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,160
It wouldn't.
You do it and you do it well and

1176
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,200
you're doing it now with maths
and stuff like that, but it

1177
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:57,920
wouldn't be like, oh, that's why
I'm back.

1178
00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:58,840
Wouldn't be enough to get me
back.

1179
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,120
Into teaching yeah, because I
I'd need to do I need something

1180
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,640
else.
I don't know you know that is

1181
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,080
genuinely the first time I've
thought about this so I'm very

1182
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,720
much just forming my thoughts
now but.

1183
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:08,920
And most of it is your.
Opinion.

1184
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:09,920
So it's not like you're right or
wrong.

1185
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,440
Yeah, and.
Might change in a month, do you

1186
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:13,480
know what I mean?
So interesting.

1187
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,760
What about you?
Because I, I think mine, I do

1188
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,440
think my moment of realisation
that I was going to quit was

1189
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,640
earlier than yours 100%.
Because I, I, I had everything

1190
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,200
you thought, but the, the joy
and the feeling I got from

1191
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,520
teaching outweighed all the crap
stuff for way longer than it did

1192
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,400
for you.
Like I did get to that point

1193
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:34,760
where I just thought, I don't
want to do this anymore.

1194
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,280
But I kind of, even when I got
to the point where I started to

1195
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,800
realise that I wasn't doing all
the other little small stuff,

1196
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,480
my, my, you know, the, the
outcome from that wasn't for me

1197
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,000
to say like you, Oh, I can't do
it anymore.

1198
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,520
Then my outcome was to be maybe
quite, you know, self important

1199
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,240
where I thought, oh, it's
clearly not important then I

1200
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:57,040
care so much about the education
of these kids and the outcome to

1201
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,720
be in quality that if I also
think that this thing's

1202
00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:02,040
pointless, it's because it is
and therefore I just won't do

1203
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:03,840
it.
And it's not like, oh, I really

1204
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,440
should be doing these things.
I guess.

1205
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,400
I guess for most of it, I was
still thinking, Nah, do you know

1206
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,520
what?
I care so much and I'm good at

1207
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,120
my job, that if I have come to
the conclusion that that's a

1208
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,800
complete waste of time and I
shouldn't do it anymore and I'm

1209
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,280
not doing it, that's OK.
I can hurry on teaching.

1210
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,240
But, you know, I do think
though, they still got to a

1211
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:23,480
point where I was like, yeah,
but there is some stuff.

1212
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,440
So that line was later for me.
Basically, I started dropping

1213
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,680
stuff off and I thought that's
fine until I kept doing it, kept

1214
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:31,720
doing it.
And I was like, you know what?

1215
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:35,080
Actually, I don't care enough
about these small things.

1216
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,200
And it will in the long term
have a hindrance on what I'm

1217
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:39,920
doing for the job.
And I had to be honest, like

1218
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,400
that's why I stepped away in the
end.

1219
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:46,680
I actually still think 100%
before I retire, I'll be back in

1220
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,680
the classroom in some respect,
teaching.

1221
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,360
And I think it'll be, I say
before I retire, I think before

1222
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,400
I'm 40, genuinely, I'm 32 now.
Like I can see it happening in

1223
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,680
some respect.
I, we were in our school

1224
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,440
recently, our old school,
because we were looking at

1225
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,400
mathsu and they're going to be
using mathsu and seeing what

1226
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:03,640
it's like with the children,
etcetera.

1227
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:05,880
And that's really, really,
really exciting.

1228
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,040
But even just walking through
and seeing the classes and the

1229
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,320
lessons, that was a huge part of
me that thought, oh, this is

1230
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,680
what I do, this is me, this is
my environment, this is where I

1231
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,280
excel, this is where I'm really
good at my job and the kids

1232
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,280
learn loads.
So I definitely miss it a lot.

1233
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,840
But like when did I know in my
gut it was a guttural reaction

1234
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,720
And it was, I think when it was
a mixture of stuff.

1235
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:32,160
I guess where you're saying you
realise you had to, then you

1236
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,560
made it happen.
I kind of knew that I need to

1237
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:36,880
make it happen so I have the
choice.

1238
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,560
So I was still making it happen
whilst I'd think, you know, I'll

1239
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:40,560
just keep teaching.
I'll keep teaching.

1240
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:41,760
I'm part time, I do a couple of
days.

1241
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,120
But then, you know, at least
then when I made the decision,

1242
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:45,880
do you know what I actually
know?

1243
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,960
It's time to stop.
At least then I was in the

1244
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,800
position to make that choice.
I think having that choice is

1245
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,720
really important and if you're a
teacher in general.

1246
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,840
If you're in.
Any career, excuse me, any

1247
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,440
career in general, I think it's
actually really important to

1248
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,640
just think to yourself, what if
I'm not doing this in 10 years

1249
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:04,640
for whatever reason?
Yeah.

1250
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:06,520
It could be that you're worried
AI is going to take your job.

1251
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,480
It could be that you're worried
that you'll lose your passion.

1252
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,040
It could be that you're worried
right now that you don't think

1253
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,280
you want to do it anymore.
Don't wait until you get there

1254
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,200
to start thinking, oh, I need to
have a path out.

1255
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,800
Yeah, just just just start
thinking.

1256
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,920
Just start having an idea.
Give yourself options.

1257
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,360
The more options you have, the
more power you have in your own

1258
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,400
life.
And you don't want to get to a

1259
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,120
point where you're 45 and you're
like, oh, this is all I've ever

1260
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,160
done and I hate it now.
And I've done nothing else ever

1261
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,120
that that's what I wanted to
avoid.

1262
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,520
And there are people out there
who are 4550 now who are in that

1263
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,600
position, and they, they regret
it.

1264
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,480
Yeah.
I'm I just?

1265
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,000
I just think as much as you can
give yourself that option

1266
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,440
because there's nothing that
scares me more than being 50 and

1267
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,720
having zero option of what to do
with my own life.

1268
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:48,240
Yeah, yeah.
So that's what I'm trying.

1269
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:50,000
To do now, yeah.
Yeah.

1270
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:51,240
Oh, good.
Yeah.

1271
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,080
So, you know, do you get?
Embarrassed posting yourself

1272
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:53,680
online?
Yeah.

1273
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:54,960
But you know what?
It's gonna be another option,

1274
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:56,400
yeah.
Yeah, do you?

1275
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,880
Well, why?
Why do you why do you do this?

1276
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,200
People just, you know, comment
stuff and it's just hate Yeah,

1277
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:01,360
but it's gonna be another
option.

1278
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:02,800
I'm gonna start posting math
stuff online.

1279
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,320
Let's start posting memes
online.

1280
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,200
Gonna start doing a podcast,
gonna open an Ed tech company

1281
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:08,160
with a bunch of people.
It was a.

1282
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:09,720
Bit silly there, wasn't it?
When you were, when you were

1283
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:11,800
living at your mum's and you
started up a little silly little

1284
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:12,920
tutoring company, wasn't it?
Yeah.

1285
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:14,600
It was silly, wasn't it?
Yeah, silly.

1286
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,760
Pays my mortgage though.
Yeah, weird.

1287
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:20,240
No, definitely.
Hey ho, thanks for that.

1288
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,240
That was a good question that
really made me very good think

1289
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:24,720
and reflect.
Let's finish up there.

1290
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:26,360
Shall we?
You know, we said we're going to

1291
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,080
make start doing short episodes.
Yeah.

1292
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,000
It's just not.
Happening is it nothing We like

1293
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,080
talking Sorry what producer
Producers tell us this stuff

1294
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,320
produces the door the.
Door for my toilet.

1295
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:36,920
I thought it was the lack of
radiators personally.

1296
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,000
The producer is the lack of
radio, so I thought that's what

1297
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,040
it.
Was right guys we'll.

1298
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,680
See you next time, remember to
leave as a rating.

1299
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,400
Send this to someone you think
might find it a nice little

1300
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,000
listen and don't forget.
Join us for our webinar, it's

1301
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,480
completely free.
Tuesday the 24th of February.

1302
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,480
Come along, come on, come and
see Mathsu coming in your school

1303
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:58,520
please, please, please.