Ep 174: Q&A: Favourite Books, 00s School Trends & Maths Pedantry

0:00 Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Teach Sleep Repeat. My name is Dylan. And my name is Hayden. We're back with another episode. This is vastly turning into my favourite episode of the week. Vastly. It's already there, I think, because this is just where we get to read out your submissions as readers. Sometimes it's really insightful, sometimes it's complete nonsense, but it's always taken very seriously. A bit like that intro, but it's you called them readers. You said fastly, Did I say readers? Yeah, it's just all over the place really, isn't it? We're leaving it leaving. It This is why people TuneIn. Yeah, pure professionalism. All the gear looks quite good, doesn't it? Absolutely no idea. No idea. Go on Hayden, read the first. Question. So you can certainly make out of me now, is that right? You know the deal by now, right? Here we go, How to stop feeling disheartened by poor attitudes from students and parents.

0:43 A lot of students I've taught and their families do not value education especially in STEM subjects. I've been struggling with 0 participation in lessons and an unbothered attitude. I tried positive phone calls, praise, discussing with the head of year and many other things and yet no change has happened. Should I accept them as who they are or should I keep trying different ways to motivate them? This is an interesting question because before that we we started recording. I said to Dylan. Dylan chose this one and I said, I feel awkward about these questions because sometimes I feel like my answer is, oh, do those things that you've already said in the question because that's kind of what I was going to say if you didn't say that. And other than that, I'm not really sure if there's much more. Maybe you do just need to accept them. And it feels to me like a bit of a cop out. But you said let's keep this question anyway. Because that's my point.

1:31 Do you know, it feels like like, oh, you're doing the things I would do and it's still rubbish. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. I've tried it's, it's just impossible. And I've tried phoning his parents. I said, listen, this horse, this horse is not drinking the water. I've tried positive affirmations. Hang on, hang on. Did you try? I did. Did you discuss with the head of horses? I had Frankie Dettori on the line. Oh, Frankie, mate, this horse is not drinking. It's bloody water. Not this work. So. And the point is, you have to admit sometimes no matter what you do. That horses don't like water. Don't like water? That's answered your question, Yeah.

2:11 But you know, all jokes aside, like I do genuinely think I just realised you want a blanket. Sorry, I'm just realised you got a blanket on. It's gold. I still don't have radiators up here. Notice? I wish we could turn the camera. You got to trust me here. This is the top of my house. OK, so obviously it's cold and there are two brackets on the wall there and two brackets on the wall. What surprise radiators should be like. Hang on, all that one's behind the door. That's not hanging, it's just leaning up against the wall. I wonder when that door on these radiators will go on. Probably. Never.

2:51 Well I must have got a blanket on me and and people. I don't mind seeing me wee and even if those things will happen. Sorry anyway, I couldn't have ruined this question more. They haven't. You haven't. Yeah. Yeah. First, you said I don't want to answer it. And I did everything to just just derail you. But in, in all seriousness, I, the reason I said I think we should keep this in any way and have this discussion is because it's twofold #1 just because we've got a podcast that's relatively popular and a social media following, I think it is easy sometimes for people to think, oh, they'll know. And I think it's nice for people to hear sometimes. No, we don't. Like there isn't this magic answer. We aren't on a pedestal. We don't know more than you. Genuinely, as a teacher, we know the same as all of our audience.

3:32 We're all in this together. We just happen to put a camera on sometimes and are confident enough to chat about it. Right? Yeah, Yeah. So that's the first thing. And the second thing is actually, I do have an answer. And the answer is you're doing everything you can do. And there has to be a point. There simply has to be a point where you at least absolve yourself of some of the guilt for this. It sounds like this person feels like they need to do more or like it's on them. And my point here is that it cannot be on you when clearly you're putting in the effort to do more. And I would say to this person, look, don't stop trying. That's what I would say, don't stop because you might breakthrough at some point. And even if a couple of children, their attitude switches a little bit, that's fantastic. But you're, you're kind of pushing against the the entire machine here of, you know, social attitudes towards education, which have been shifting over time.

4:19 It's really hard for an individual to feel like they're making a huge change. You can feel like you're making an act that change in a small scale. Absolutely don't give up and and don't feel disheartened I'd say. Yeah, I suppose even that is still ultimately a bit of advice because part of this question we we could have answered it if Yeah, just give up. They're not, they're not going to change that. Don't worry about it. Whereas really, I guess the wider point is ultimately you should still keep trying as part of your role as a teacher to keep trying to break down those boundaries. Just, yeah, like you said, don't, don't go home like feeling unbelievably guilty that not everyone is changing because you've got the systemic pressures of just in general on top of you. And also, yeah, you can't, you can't actually control these people. Like you don't, you're not actually in their family. Yeah, like there is just a a limitation there.

5:00 So. Yeah, good answer. I always think of it in the context of everything else as well. Like I, I don't think for a second, you know, there are, there are children like this who exist, right, who get to year 6 and we know that we've seen them ourselves who will still struggle with their number bonds to 10, who will still struggle with writing their name down, right? Genuinely, this happens. It's not because the teachers have seen for one week in year 3 and four and five that they can't do this and suddenly they give up, right? The teacher has continued to try to make sure that that child can do their number bonds to 10, can understand basic number, can write letters and can form their name. That's happened the whole time now just because that child got to year 6 and still can't do it, Would you look back and say well, that was a waste of time, shouldn't even bother doing it in year 3-4 and five.

5:41 You would never say that you would never suggest that you should stop trying when it comes to education. So when it comes to attitudes and things on a wider level, I would say the same thing. Never stop trying, but I'd also to that year 345 teacher. I wouldn't be like, what have you been doing? They still can't do their name by year six in the same way. I wouldn't go what are you doing? They still have a poor attitude towards education. Yes, there is only so much I can do and I'll try my. The best. I'm doing my best to be a positive force, but that that that is it. That is all I can do. And that bloody horse still won't drink that water, still will not. And I LED it there and it was hard, all right? It's really, really tricky. Honestly, can we do anything? Seriously. No. Do you know what I learned today on the Thing of animals? Just another little sidetrack here. Do you know what cash cow actually comes from? Do you know what it means?

6:27 I and I don't know where it comes from, no, like a cash cow generally means like a really good earner, right? Yeah, someone that's making lots of money. Yeah. And I always think of the the little skip between Ricky Gervais and Steve Carell when he gets really annoyed, like he left The Office and Ricky Gervais goes killing a cash cow for the both of us. Steve Carell, like he's annoyed he stopped. And I actually only learned today it's so simple what cash cow actually means. Oh, go on, then. It literally just means a cow. Because if you think about a farmer who owns a cow, that cow just by living is constantly giving money. OK, so cash cow is just any old cow, right? Who lives in a farm. You milk it, you you continue to get profit out of it just from it exists. You milk it. That's what milk it comes from. It's not.

7:08 Milking it, you're milking it, you're milking. All the profit, I think maybe it's a, it's a, it's on us that we didn't know that. Yeah, because it seems basic. If someone didn't know what milking it meant, I'd be like, well, it's obviously meant, yeah, obviously from a cow. Funny enough, cash cow means a cow, yeah? Because they make cash for you exactly because they're a cow. Exactly that. And then I always speak with that Mitchell and web sketch with the farmer. Have you seen it? So David Mitchell's playing a farmer. He's on a farm and he goes, he's like playing that role. And he's like, hey, come here, come here. It's like a documentary. Come here and the camera comes in. I, I share this sheep and sell the wool and then it bloody grows back. I don't have to do anything. I just share it again. More money. Easy. Basically the whole thing was on a farm. Yeah, it's just continuously making money just from the existence of animals.

7:52 Yes, as if there's nothing else that goes into. It listen to this dinner. The chickens keep laying eggs. Just keep doing. Just keep doing. I just keep taking them. That's funny. So that's where cash cow comes. From, you know, something new. You did or or me and you learned something new and then this thing. What a waste of two minutes. Yeah, we all know. Pretty obvious. Yeah, they will answer that question as you asked them. We had another, this question is interesting, but by the way, and I feel like I should read it to you because it's kind of based on your video really and our conversation, I guess. He said you seem to have annoyed quite a few people from there in general. Yeah, from your maths pedantry last week, whether you're right or wrong, do you think that this kind of attitude towards maths being the right way or the wrong way can be detrimental for children's learning?

8:36 I'm aware that you are on a podcast and not in front of children obviously, but it might seep into the classroom for some. I understand. I did genuinely understand it, right? And I get it and there are lots of comments on it cuz I think I put a clip out from the podcast that was extended on TikTok and we did some clips that we filmed separately about it. And I actually ended up turning off comments called the long one, right? And I get it. And I was waiting for someone to moan about it. The reason I don't, I will sit all day and talk about maths for people. And there were loads of people who were really genuinely just like, yeah, but look, you can have lots of, and you can read it different ways. And as you go through and like, you know, eventually, even NCTM eventually will say that you can have groups of this and it's repeated edition and look at it as the whole.

9:19 And I was like, I will have conversations till the cows come home about that until the cash cows come home and I leave out horse and water. I'll do that non-stop. And I quite enjoyed it. And I was back and forth and we didn't always necessarily agree, but it was good. But then like there were like 3 or 4 people then who just got really personal, got really like, yeah, like we're just like insulting. And I was just like, I don't want every time I get a notification, that comment comes up for my heart to sink and be like, oh, someone's being horrible. You know what I mean? So I turned it on. I was like, I turned it off on that, those particular videos just for that reason. But, but in going back to like the people who are just nice people who want to talk about it. I, I, I think, I think pedantry is important and I get it. If you're like, does it matter? Who cares?

10:00 You know, let in NCTM in, in the journey through, like eventually when you're doing times tables and you go to times tables, it introduces the idea of commutativity and it introduces the idea that it doesn't matter which way around the factors are the answers the same? And you can use that and you can do group solving and all that stuff. Which is where most people are in their heads completely genuinely from that but onwards. And you know what? That's that's genuinely good maths. And I think people were thinking I was being like, I'm picky like that all the time and that would be bad. Yeah, if I was that picky all the time, it would, it would be bad. But there is a reason that when you first introduce the idea of multiplication and and link it to repeated edition, there is a reason why for those first 12 small steps and in CTM they exclusively show it that way around where you have the first number being how many groups there are and the second number what's repeatedly adding.

10:43 Because it's important to be really specific when you first make those links. Of course afterwards, like I said in the video, you should be doing it both ways. You know, every year 4 child came up to me and started counting in eights for 8 * 7. Do you really think I'd be there going? No, actually you should be counting. No. The usativity is important. Shortcuts are important ways of representing things are important. Scaling is a different type of thing, like in terms of how how much a flower grows, right? It's in repeated addition kind of doesn't really make sense in that specific like example of like a story. We, we spoke about stories, didn't we? And how things can express in the stories, repeated addition doesn't make sense. So like, do do you think then I would say, you know, do you think what I'm saying in that sense is that therefore repeated addition isn't multiplication? No, I'm saying in that context of that story, even know it can give you the same answer and can be represented in different ways.

11:31 In that example of what we're looking at, there is one way to describe it. So that's what I was getting at. Is it would you say, or just listening from what you're saying right now, would you say it's important then that in the, in the context of when children are learning the literal concept of what multiplication is, It's it's, it's important at that phase being quite pedantic and be really consistent because they're literally learning the concept from scratch. And then later down that journey, you don't have to be as pedantic because you that concept is kind of embedded now and we can move on to bigger concepts and bigger things. Yeah, and it does get less relevant the more you move up. Like, you know, there were so many commentators, clearly a secondary teacher and was talking about a * 15 is 15 A. And it's the same thing because your point was like 15 A clearly means 50 knots of a repeated. And they were like saying, but a * 15 is the same thing. And I was like, yeah, completely it. It does give you the same answer. And you can rearrange stuff, you can move stuff around. That's what algebra literally is. It's moving things around to get to the right answer eventually and having efficiencies in adding three to both sides of an equation.

12:31 It's like, well, that's that, that kind of makes no sense whatsoever when we're just talking about what an expression is showing in terms of things happening, but it helps you get to an answer in the end. That's not bad maths, that's fantastic maths. And, and I think maybe what I will say definitely 100% is I, I was not clear enough in what I was saying in terms of that's what I was trying to get AT. And when I say you're wrong, I I don't mean you're wrong child in year 6 who's doing this as a short. I don't mean that and I don't mean you're wrong, teacher. I just mean that if we're, if we, we should be pedantic when we're introducing new things and making explicit links between stuff, I think we have to be pedantic at that point. And that's not a bad thing. And when children make links and learn stuff around it and move stuff around and say, well, actually, I think 3 * 4 is 3 + 3 + 3 + 3.

13:18 I'm not. I'm not going to say to that kid, no, right? I'm not going to say no, No, it's not. It's this, and this really matters. I'll say that'll get it to the same answer. That can be what it can show. Fine. But interestingly, there's another way of this. Which way do you think actually makes more? You might have that discussion with the child and then come to a conclusion with them because what teachers do exactly? Just to bring it back for a second, ultimately I feel like the comments maybe did get out of hand, but ultimately at the end of the day someone said to us, you're wrong, right? It actually means this. So we replied with the video of a couple of people said it and saying well actually if you want to be pedantic already, to me there is actually 1 correct way and this is what it is. It realistically the video was just saying, oh interestingly, you're not right person who's commenting this is a fact backed up. It's not just me making it up.

14:02 This is just a fact. So if you want to actually be right, which you clearly care about because you're commenting in the 1st place about this small pedantic thing, right here is the actual correct information. It's like, ultimately that is why that video existed, didn't it? Probably got blown out of proportion. A lot. And this is the thing about putting posting stuff online, there is no context ever, ever. So it's really hard to get across. And yeah, and, and there were people in the middle who, and a lot of really genuinely nice people I had really good conversations with were simply saying, but it is just both, isn't it? Like there was, they were saying it's just both and that's different to what you're saying. And I genuinely like we were talking about it. We were looking at literally looking for NCTM together, like coming back, going forwards talking about it. And NCTM literally says later on in the progression when you introduce commutativity about how you can express things as groups of and you can say things as times, and you should be looking at multiplication then as something you're building on and can represent multiple things. Just wholly commutative, that's.

14:50 Fine. Yeah, completely. I think that's fantastic, I really do. But I guess, yeah, what I really wanted to make clear was we have to be picky in progression and from the start to the end point. We're not going to be in the same narrow corridor. I think we should expand as we move through and understand things. Oh, I get that now. I understand that the first one is groups and then that's how many. That's a really important thing to understand as a child. Like that's a huge leap even though it's down in Year 2. Exactly the context of that child in that particular time. Yeah, learning that concept is important. Yeah. So when you say, oh, it can be both ways, it's like, yeah, it can, but you know what? Slow down for a minute because you're only in year 2 and learning. Let's just let's jump, let's show them one way. Let's all do it this one way because we know we've got consistency across the curriculum.

15:31 And then after that we can, we can explore all these other things and forever and more. It will never matter again. But just right now, there's a, there's a optimal way to teach this concept and this is the optimal way. So why wouldn't we just do that way? Exactly so as a clip means saying you're wrong, I can I can understand in year 4 or 5 is like, well, I'm not wrong. I'm like, no, you're not. And I would teach communitivity and this is important. It's a really good learning point, but I guess I had my head screwed on from a point of a progression, yeah. I think you were too busy trying to argue me for giving feedback on what the video should be about. So yeah. Think about there was one. There was 1 great thing that happened from that, which was we spoke about this last week in the episode, which was I was trying to contribute to the video you were making saying we should address multiplied by you're like, no, no, because doesn't mean this thing. And we had this whole argument. And in the video I said no it's OK because someone can just comment if not.

16:14 That's what happened, yeah. And I said, well, maybe we should address it because people. I said that's OK because someone just commented that's a. Problem. They'll comment very first. Comment very first. Comment on Facebook. On Facebook, yeah, it really made me laugh. Was literally something like oh, but doesn't the word multiplied my multiplied by very much just mean this is multiplied by that the thing I said that we should maybe address in the video? Sweet, sweet, sweet engagement. To be fair to you, you did, once we had that conversation, say, well if someone comments that, we'll make another video. So you might be watching it right now eventually. Only if he actually remembers to record this one. Is it recording? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, interesting one. I think it's a want to be picky. I don't think it's necessarily bad. Like people who care about this just care about looking like they're correct might be a part of it.

16:58 I do like looking like I'm right, clearly. But I do think there are lots of things I don't care about being picky about. Sure. I care about being picky about this because I think it's important. Yeah, which is fair enough. And we? Can stand by that 100% next one. I put this in just for you, Hayden, because I think you will struggle to do this. So here's the context. Desert island children's books. If you could only teach with five children's books for the rest of your life, what 5 would it be? I know what you put this in. Because I am not an avid reader at all. No. Good job. What did? What made you choose the job where it's really important to encourage children to read if you don't, Do I look like an English teacher? Mate, I'm a maths teacher. You're a primary school teacher? What? Listen, I ignored that bit. You'd be a maths teacher in secondary school, I ignored. The the enormous, massive, huge, most important.

17:39 Part of the division. In all seriousness, it's just one of those things where I was like, this is my weaker area. Yeah, I'm not an average reader, jokes aside. Most of your class won't be if we look at the national data. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Do you know what? You can still get on a society and have a minimum, right? Yeah. Do you know what I? Can do read significantly better than 10 year olds and comprehends and teach the skills and everything we need to do with with reading absolutely fine. But not I'm not a huge reader. I'm always remember feeling guilty because there'd be lots of teachers around us or, you know, on various scales where they'd be like, Oh yeah, I can't wait to get to the half term. I'm going to read these ten children's books to increase my knowledge of children's books. And I'd be thinking I'm going to do these. 10 sums, I'm 1 + 9.

18:20 That's what it is. It's an effort thing for you. Yeah, yeah. I was like, no, that's that's not, that's not something I'll enjoy. I'm going to earn TT. Rockstars for 10 minutes and do my timestables. Yeah, actually. That's equal. However, I did learn through my teaching career that I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed reading books with kids. And two kids like that was to me, I was like, I would do this all the time. Yeah. Because I'm getting something out of it that I actually enjoy. And when it was yourself, me selfish. When it's just for me, I'm like, who can I impress? Who's gonna love me? For this, well, who's gonna love me it? It does shine. Through hell as you read, when you try and read something out loud, I realise what's going on. But let's let's be clear about that then. So I've chosen my 5. You've chosen your five. Yeah. We've not seen each other's list. That might be a Aiden shame. I reckon he's not even got 5. Dylan gave me 10 minutes.

19:01 I come up with four so but the. Context here is the questions very much about what you would teach with. OK, so I've I've very much done books that I've talked with before. There is one in here I haven't actually talked with, but I've read over the class and I've thought they should be good for for teaching as well. I would want I'd do a unit on it. So number one for me. David Walliams, billionaire boy #2 David Walliams, gangster granny #3 David, what you gotta get us cancelled. David Walliams grandpa's Great escape No, of course not. Just just just very just on that very quickly because we again ruffled some feathers. I did, didn't we? Because people just I, I don't get it where people are so, so, so quick to try and defend some like I get having a different opinion.

19:44 That's fine. But they were just like, you should never do that just because, well really should or should. I never do that. And you don't really make me laugh. There was genuinely someone who truly wrote a comment, which was, should we just get rid of Shakespeare because he had questionable views of something? And I was like, OK, two huge things here, right? I'll start with the one that's less huge, genuine, genuinely, actually a person from a different time. And I get the argument when it's like, yeah, do you know what, in the 1500s that there was almost no one with the same, like, level of morality we might have now. And it's incomparable. So we're comparing it to someone who's alive now and doing these things. So it's like, OK, that is just different. That's small. The second thing was to dare to compare the quality of the work.

20:28 Like, what would should we just been Shakespeare? No, because it's probably some of the best stuff that's been written, like, like ever. Like, like. And we're comparing it to gangster granny. Yeah, it's like, I'm sorry. The quality of the work, It people saying you should only you should only be picking stuff on the based on the work itself, not on the author. OK, won't pick him still then. OK, OK, we'll just go the quality then. Even less likely to pick him because the only reason he's being picked is because he's celebrity that's helping him. So people that go, we shouldn't even bother to think about who the author is. Cool. In the dustbin, then In the dustbin, like, completely irrelevant. The only thing propping him up is who he is. Yeah. So if we go down that line, it's like I'm even less likely to pick it now.

21:09 Yeah. So I think it's such a weak argument. Funny. That is, that is so funny. So your so who is what's your actual first book? But they were. So my first one, my all time favourite. I've taught this multiple times. Oh, let me guess. Vajack, Paul Vajack, Paul S. Aside, yeah, Vajack Paul really good, but kids absolutely love it. Yeah, really well written, loads of opportunities from writing and inspiration and, you know, setting, you know, in the big city. And I loved how because it's obviously from the point of view of the cat, there's things in there that are described as like, I, I think, you know, cars are described as dogs, you know, So you get this really good opportunity to explain stuff through other means and like, almost like metaphors in these, all the figurative language.

21:53 There's loads of loads of opportunities and the story's just good as well. It's like a proper adventure story move a villain and, and a story all the way through. So that's the yeah. I knew that was because you spoke out a lot passionately and yeah, it's cool. I think I feel like I have one that that I'm that passion. We didn't tennis. We didn't tennis because I have one that came straight to my mind where I genuinely I've taught it for like 4 years in a row and every single time I'm like, yes, I get to read this book in with the kids and the kids love it. Which is letters from the Lighthouse by Emma Carroll. Oh yeah, yeah, it's. Such a good. Book Why the kid OK Is it about the teaching or about the. Quality of the book, all of it. This. Is why it's perfect. It's a bit like that one. It's like it's got a bit of everything, like the quality, the teaching you can get from it's great because it's really, it's really well structured and each chapter is like almost stand alone in terms of you can just get so much good, like rich stuff out of it that you can teach anything on any chapter, which is amazing.

22:36 And obviously you've got the story, the arc that just goes through and the kids every single year without fail are unbelievably engaged by it. And I can't argue with that. I'm sort of like, that's what that's beyond me now. I'm like, there's only so many years I can teach this in a row where I get the exact same response every time before I have to just say this is clearly just a fantastic book because kids just love it. I think they like World War Two things anyway because they're just sort of fascinated by that topic in general. But do you? Do you think there's a link between then like the quality of the text and the hook of the children? The hook of the children is really important, right. But I think also I will say that early in my career when I did read Alan's books to my class just as a as a book to read, they were absolutely hooked as well. Yeah, of course. And like the quality of the text though is incomparable to me when I look at that and some of this stuff I've been saying here.

23:17 So you know, that hook, whilst it's important, do you think it's is that the be all and end all or do you think what you said is a good book for multiple reasons? How important is the hook? Yeah, I, I. Think the quality of the text is probably higher if we if we're ranked. They're both important, I think, because you can hook kids in lots. Of ways, yeah, and. And I can. Think of some stories that we've like, books we've read over the years where from the blurb and the picture, like the kids are like, oh, this is going to be good. And even I've thought this is going to be great. Like I love the premise of this and actually the quality of the text, like basically ruins it and the kids don't like it. So like clearly the hook alone is not enough. You do. You actually do just need a really, really well and when you're when you're. Modelling writing to the children and the level of writing isn't even at the level you need to be out in Year 6.

23:59 It's quite frustrating sometimes. Like I'm not saying it's always right, like there has to be a comma there because of this grammar rule that's really important. It's like, it can be frustrating, but there is a level you've got to have as well where if you're doing a waggle what a good one looks like and you're using a book, it has to be up to standard. Yeah, definitely. Although I. I'd say I've not really encountered that in terms I've never really read a book from an author and and actually thought God, this isn't up to standard David Adams. Oh, oh, in terms of like the grammar and punctuation stuff like just the way it's. Written as well, yeah, like no, but. And, and like even at points where it's like the richest, the common missing there, like the front of the verbials and things like that, that's quite common. And you get that in a lot of books where the authors don't exactly follow it. And I think there's a really good learning point there for the children, which is just, we are jumping through hoops here kids and clearly you can be successful, but having to do all this.

24:44 And I think it says more about what we expect from the kids. But it is what I'm saying is there is a line where it's like it has to be at a certain level though. No, I agree. I was just. Misunderstanding your point? Go on then. Go for your next one. My next one. I could have picked anything by this author, by Anthony Brown, any of his picture books. You know, Anthony Brown books are the ones who like the big gorilla. Yeah, that's right. I'm trying. To think why I got this because I've read. Them a pretty I, I chose Voices in a Park. I think that's a good one. We did that in Year 5 as a unit, but we have done so many of his books where I'll talk in general because they're such quality picture books and the story is so vivid in them without there being loads of words and taking away that barrier for the children. I found as a teacher, they loved it. They loved doing a picture book and it didn't matter how old they were. We've done that in year 6 as well, like we've done all the way through the school where maybe at one point in in in the year, most schools will do this.

25:32 Well, they say this week we're all doing a picture book. Yeah, and even sometimes the same picture book. And I love stuff like that. And I've got more like that actually later that was mentioned before. But yeah, Anthony Brown, fantastic. Because there's so much you can take out of it. And again, so much inspiration for writing as well. And you can even get some art in there. You can even get some almost like comic book strips for the children and tell a story in different ways. And yeah, they're completely hooked. My point of view as a teacher, that's really important. And then again, the quality is really high as well. And for me, what I've noticed in those is it can be quite scary sometimes to think, well, you know, even I've just said myself then how important, you know, modelling text is to the children. How on earth can you do with a picture book? Oh my God, you can when the picture book is a quality like that.

26:15 So definitely them. That's cool. I was. I was. Thinking about picture books as well. I had I had this wasn't my list, but I just think it's quite good in general. Was the tunnel and it's annoying me because I'm buying it and I'm in my head. I'm like, is that by Anthony Brown? Right? But I don't know. I'll look it up in a SEC. But the tunnel is another one in years, even in year 6 where I'm like, there's barely any worse at this at all. And we we can draw so much. It is anti brown. Is it? Yeah, I thought it might be yeah. When you said anti brown, I'm sure that's the time as well. But that's another yeah, great example of it's quite a simple story really. But you could you did the kids drawing out it will the inference from the, you know, from the pictures. It's just fantastic. So my actual second one, I mean, again, it's very generic here, but it is just a hit with the kids, the line, the witch and the wardrobe. Lewis.

26:56 I used to teach that in year. Four, I haven't taught it for years but it was always my fate. Probably like top, top 2 favourites in year 4 to teach because I just found the descriptive writing and just generally enjoying the description would like really captivate the kids and they would try very hard to mimic that style of writing. I felt like it was written in a way that was really great for younger kids to actually genuinely try and like it was a good model text to actually write like that and then describe things in the same way. You could just get. Yeah, you get such great activities out of that book. Yeah. Amazing. OK, so next one for me. I've I've said this before because it's an amazing book just to read, but I think there's lots of learning opportunities in the book with no pictures. BJ Novak. Oh yeah, you mentioned. It fantastic. I absolutely love that. But we did a we did a reel about it and that went quite viral because a lot of people love that book as well. But when you look at again, if I'm talking about with teaching, especially with younger children, I mean, like lower key stage 2, right?

27:44 It's like year three-year 4. There's so many opportunities in there for things like onomatopoeia for, you know, when you do, when you write poems, and I can't remember what it's called, but when like words are in the shape of what they are. If you read through that book a lot of the time, you know, if you say block, it's written maybe like a robot if it wants you to do a robot voice and then and then you do a monkey voice. And it's a really good link for children to see how you can tell a story for more than just the words on the page. How the words are written and what they look like despite there being no pictures. Even so, it's like another evolution from the Anthony Brown stuff. This time there are no pictures, but it's still, I would say, to the children, it's representation and the way you say out loud as a performance will change based on what the words look like on the page. And it's just a really nice way again, of getting in there. Some auracy, some reading out loud, some performance. And then also as like a side bit, I'd say still important is a bit of writing from it, but just just noticing that when you're teaching with a book in school, the end goal doesn't always have to be a piece of writing. So the end goal with that would be performance, confidence, reading out loud, putting on voices, louder, softer, higher, lower pitch, you know, pace, all that kind of stuff. Really important to teach kids and books like that really that you do that.

28:54 Something I think will be. Really important soon because the new curriculum has talked about Oracy a lot and I think that hopefully will get a bit more put on a pedestal, you know, and prioritised. So my next one is is 1. It's a fairly recent one. So I taught this last year in year 6 and it's the Boy in the Tower by Polly Ho Yen. It's it's pretty cool. Is that like a post? Apocalyptic one. Yeah. Yeah. Which I. Think is a really cool concept to explore with kids because you've got to be careful and tell you how you do it, but it like it's often quite new for them and it's the. Adult stuff, isn't it? Exactly. You don't really. Expect many kids books to be like sort of post apocalyptic, but they do it in a really obviously an appropriate way. But it's really, it's just a cool concept because the kids are sort of mind blown of like this idea that like the world is ending and you following this character as everything just you know, goes, goes to part like yeah, it's really cool, but really good for suspense, tension, like really good character building because it's it's like pretty much all takes place in in like within one or two rooms and there's like there's only like 4 or five main characters. That's it.

29:47 So. Not necessarily. Not necessarily the best in the world for like a setting description, but but you can still do it, obviously, I'm sure. But but like it has its strengths in the fact that it develops character so well. So kind of. Yeah, Hilariously. It's really good for saying description only because of 1 context of the story, which is the world around them in this tower is like describe this being taken over basically like plant aliens, yeah. Yeah, so you can do. This you can do like one really cool same description of the whole premise. That's good. But yeah, you wouldn't get loads of different ones. Yeah, but different. Books have different strengths as well. Exactly. Yeah. Cool. Well, that's three H. I'm going to say my last two really quickly, but I'm not going to. I'm going to dwell on them. Next one. I've mentioned this before. 1 is a snail tender to crab another picture, but I love that. But I had to say it because it's in terms of, again, when you think of books to teach, I bet lots of people went straight to like units of work they've done.

30:27 I tried to be a bit different with this amazing for maths in terms of, you know, you can read books in maths and we talked about how important stories are in maths and understanding what number is and how it's represented. I think that that's a really, really good one for introducing algebra. Essentially, you know, even at a low, low, low level about what kind of crab represent, Why does it represent 10? You can physically count the 10 legs if you want, or you can just start thinking of crab AC if you're higher up in the school. Remember doing bits and bobs like that. And my final one, not something I've done a unit on, but a book that I read to my class and I thought I would be very much willing to do a unit of work on this because it was well written, had really good themes throughout it. That was a boy in the back of the class Enjoy Ralph. So very relatively recent again, but a big one.

31:08 A little bit of A twist towards the end. I say, not really, more like a reveal towards the end that I remember myself and the whole class just like, oh, and again, I love that idea of taking wider things from literature in general and exposing children to it. So this idea of cliffhangers, this idea of A twist and this idea of, you know, anything we've talked about in this whole section here really, which is like as adult readers, we take for granted as as educators, we've got a chance to pick quality books that do that and introduce this idea. It could be a genre, it could be a way of storytelling, It could be a point of view. It could be, like we said about a theme. And you know this is to do with migration as well and worry everyone for your froth at the mouth because you've been watching too much GB news. It's not indoctrination or anything like that, but it's just, it's just explaining a thing that happens to our children in the world they live in.

31:57 Why was migration mentioned in any context that isn't saying it's all over my country? Why are you wearing a blanket that's not a Saint George's flag? Oh my God. You're getting too comfortable, mate. Listeners aren't right in front of us saying they're frothing out the mouth. Yeah, well, no, not maybe not you, but someone that listeners, they wouldn't do that. They're sophisticated people, Dylan, I reckon if you. Painted a roundabout, you wouldn't like what I just said and I don't care. And if you. Painted a roundabout that you're not listening to, not. Got this far? You're not listening to this podcast. And if you are, reflect on yourself. All right, Yeah. Go and paint a roundabout. Go paint a. Roundabout and reflect. Yeah. Well, to be honest, I'll just wrap it up there because my, my, they were the three I thought of. And then and then from that on point on was I was just rattling through books that I've done with over the years and I like none of them were inspiring enough. Like I see with loads of Roald Dahl books, Mark more, Pogo books with loads of Jerry Strong books, Michael Moore. Pogo always find it hard to say that. And I was like, people know those ones. I don't know if I want to recommend them necessarily. OK, we can start there.

32:55 That's good stuff out. Yeah, absolutely. Fantastic. OK, hope you enjoyed that next one. Now the 6-7 trend is dying out. What's the craziest fad that you remember both as a teacher and a child? I don't know about you one. One comes to my mind immediately. I got one in my mind as. Well, when we were in primary school, I'm thinking secondary school. OK, so I'm going to. Go for my primary school on first hand. Anyone who is about 30 in their early 30s will surely remember this when when there was a wristband for every course possible. So it's all right. So it's do you remember? It's starting a run. Yeah. We start off the yellow Livestrong one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then it was like say no to racism, which came as a two. There was a black and a white one intertwined, right. And then you wore that. But then there was like the Poppy Legion, like that year release one that went around and there were kids walking around school. And I can imagine now as a teacher being like, I, I can't tell them no, it's for cancer.

33:44 Yeah, but I can't. It's for it's saying that take off your anti racism badge that you don't want to see that. But like, like there were, there's 678 and there were some kids, we just like collected them and we'd swap, I'd buy like I'd have a Livestrong one already. I'd buy another Livestrong one because I could and it was there. I'd take it into school and be like, I'll swap your Livestrong for a, for a, you know, aids one or whatever. What do you think of? Aids. Honestly, no. Just. No, Yeah, you get the bone. I know. I mean, when you actually think about what's happening, you just say it. Yeah, kids. Walk around AIDS, bands, cats, bands, they never know what it is. Bands. Yeah. And they're just traded them like you said like it's. Like it's Yu-gi-oh, my God, but it's like horrible illnesses that people imagine. You mean a teacher like your family members going through something.

34:26 It's like I missed got one of these today traded it didn't want that one to be more. I didn't want this one and that's. The thing, your family is struggling. Oh, great. Thanks for bringing it up. Yeah, I really. Really. Really vividly remember that. That is, that is. Such a distant, like deep memory. Now you've said it, I can vividly remember being in like the toilets where people would be trading because I don't want to go to lesson all over that trade. The band. Yeah, literally, literally so funny. Oh, that's funny. You you thought of like a quite a fun fad. I thought something really annoying that came to my mind, what we were in secondary. Yeah, like at the craze. I feel like maybe it's still around. Well I haven't heard of it or seen in a long time. Do you remember when benching was so like prevalent? And for anyone who doesn't know, bushing was equally annoying. I thought benching was a sorry it's. So funny how uninspiring the names are. What happens when you push someone? Yeah, Jack in the Bush fire.

35:14 In the Bush what? About you bench. Someone push my bench, yeah. Yeah, but but for you was like, so benching, maybe, maybe it's different. P90 benching was always if someone stands, goes in their hands and knees behind you. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't an actual bench. No, no. But you pretend you're a bench and then and then someone else pushes you over them. I feel my job. To you, mate. Just to me, yeah. Daily, daily, no. But there was definitely a phase where like everyone I knew, like whether it was friend or in your group or different groups, everyone was just benching everyone and it was so annoying. You couldn't, you couldn't take, you couldn't talk to someone without thinking, are they actually talking to me or they're coming over to start conversations to someone here behind me and bench me. And you got to the point where it was like everyone would have a conversation. We'd all turn around and look behind us. Just make sure. You'd be in a circle, all facing out having a conversation because you can't be sure. Are you sure you're not getting benched? Were you the bencher or the?

35:57 Benchee normally did a bit of both, did a bit of both. Yeah, because it seems happened. To me, I was like, right, there's only there's only one way around. I even need to become the Bencher. Yeah, yeah, Forever be the Benchee. Exactly. And I thought myself, let's just do it. That's just like secondary. School rules, isn't it? If you got a fight to survive, you know, 100%, a hundred percent, 100%. Yeah, like I said, peanut in as well. Yeah, it was very basic, very annoying one, but why was that see that one? Why was that called peanut? Don't know is it because it? Didn't make a shape for. Peanut or peanut because it's so. Tight, that was a good cure to that one. Wasn't there though. What's that? Good preventative, which was to put a 50P coin in your tie. You ever learned that one? Yes, I forgot about. That I did that for a while. When you still do when you wear ties now. Just in case, Yeah, just in case. The kids. Do it. I forgot that was. A thing like you're paying to play at that point, literally.

36:39 Yeah, Peanut, I'll take that. Winky yeah, I'll just take the. Tie and the 50 back when you could get dinner for 50 page. Yeah, literally. I'd take him a pound for a bacon roll every morning at a great, great time. So my friend did. It's funny. Funny, right? That was we. We had a group of us who used to sit around at break time every day and with for some reason, we'd sit around a bin and it was the bin, all right. We'd sit around a big bin in the middle. It was the bin crew. Mental anyway, so that every day the canteen would open at break time and they'd sell like, bacon rolls and stuff like this. Just like I can imagine right now, It's like what? Pre Jamie Oliver. Yeah, yeah. Probably for the best, really, that we started out. Anyway, every single day. There was one person in our little group who'd go and buy a bacon roll, right.

37:23 Who? I'd go and buy a bacon roll and he didn't want the bacon, right? What? Go and buy bacon roll, right? Go and buy bacon roll, come back and then get us all to persuade him as to why we should have the bacon from the bacon roll. He just wanted the oily bread at the end. And we go around each day. Someone get the bacon, pass it to you. It's like, yeah, you get the bacon today. And there was an initiation to get into the bin crew, right? We were just like making stuff at this point. If you wanted to come and sit in the bin crew, we were like 12. We weren't 8 like we were 12:30. We were getting older. So again, every day someone brought in a salt and shake. You know where you used to put the salt? Yeah. Yeah.

38:03 Mental. I don't know why that was strange. But anyway, so the white packet, whereas plain crisp, you put the salt in Again, that kid didn't want the salt, so just wanted the plain crisps. I had them every day. Yeah. So initiation, if you want to join the group, you have to take the salt sachet and eat it down. Down the salt, down the salt, down the salt. OK, you can sit in the big crew. And now you might be allowed bacon. If you win, you win. You're bacon. There's layers to this, yeah. 100% it's weird, basically fads and and things you make up and just just mentalism. Yeah. You have to remember though. Because I feel like it's so easy to lose touch as an adult, even with like the kids at primary school, It's hot. You forget most of your time at primary school, but the kids will do weird stuff and, and sometimes your gut reaction be like, what are you doing? Like no sensible learning. And then you remember. You remember the salt shaker.

38:44 You I. Bench someone whilst eating someone's left of a bacon with a sachet of salt in the back of my throat. Yeah, Yeah. So it all makes sense now. It all makes sense. Did I? Did I once fill a bag with rock salt because I thought it was funny for my mate to take it into class? Yeah. You know, did we do these things? You just do random things in your gear, OK? Right. Let's let's do one more question. OK, we're in that time here. We're not running. We can. We can just as long as we want. Run that time. Running that myself. Our producer of. Somewhere is telling us, oh boys got another meeting to get to. I've only got this studio. For a while but we're getting too cold. Need to put the rats on. OK last question, how did you know it was time to leave teaching? I know your reasons, but how did you know in your gut that it was genuinely now the time to take the leap? Quick thing that made before you, I want your answer on this first.

39:31 But what this really made me think when I'm going to answer it first. I do like to do that, but I'm going to say now what this really made me realise was like the the reasons were there for a long time and this question is really interesting because it's basically saying, yeah, OK, I know the reasons, but there was a point where you went, do you know what? Yeah, these reasons are right. And when was that for you? So. True. Isn't it because I was got? There was a moment, wasn't it? Probably We spoke. It was about two years before I quit, no. It can't have been though, because he carried on like but I. Knew I should and I wanted to OK, that's that maybe that maybe I'm interpreting differently about two years before I quit I decided in my head I'm going to quit right. OK, I'm going to quit at some point soon like when I get as soon as I can basically all right. Whereas before that I didn't think that go into that then. We'll do both.

40:17 Then we got time. I think we got time, Producer. All right. Yeah, we got time. Cool. OK, so there's two where you literally decided to quit, but then you're going back two years to be like, I will quit. Yeah. What was that job? Was that more of like a thing happened or was or that was more? Circumstantial, I guess, in terms of I just was waiting for the right literal circumstances to be able to do it. Now, what made you? Think I'm going to? Oh, the first bit, right? Literally the very. Very first bit I think it was. Because I realised I didn't care about stuff I cared about before. That sounds really bad, but there were like the little things I would, I just, I was felt so disenfranchised by education that I couldn't be bothered to put in the effort for little things anymore that I definitely used to put in effort despite knowing all these things.

40:57 The reasons still before, I think when I realised I was just not really doing the little things anymore. And sometimes there's even just like, like there's no reason not to do it. It's like I clearly just didn't. I wasn't in it anymore in my head. Like I might do a little thing with the kids or the Tasmania or Christmas or and I just wasn't doing that anymore. Naturally I wasn't doing, I wasn't thinking about it. I was like, I't just not in it anymore. Like I still love loads of elements of the job. Yeah, but they're bits of the passion that have just gone. Yeah. And I just don't think I want to, to live my life like that. Whereas. But you'll be. You're right, though, because it's not like I learnt anything new. Yeah. All the reason I still moan about the same things six years before. Yeah, systemic. But there was still something burning driving inside me where I was like, I can override it.

41:39 So maybe that the balance just tipped somewhere in my head of things stopped doing those things. It must have tipped. But I didn't even realise at first. So subconsciously tipped. Subconsciously. Yeah. And then. And then at some point, I think about two years before I quit, I was, I realised it. And I was like, I used to, I used to do that. I used to. I would have done that. I never, I never would have forgotten to do that. I definitely would have at the weekend thought about this. And I was like, I couldn't be bothered to do any of those things anymore. And I was like, yeah, I think I'm falling out of love with this job enough to think I should probably stop doing it enough that you can't. Justify the things that you don't want to do anymore, because in any walk of life, like let's not get this, let's not people misunderstand our current situation. We're still working a lot and absolutely still find ourselves doing stuff we don't necessarily want to do.

42:20 Sure, but you're saying even if we've been teaching, although that's still true, those things you're finding yourself not been poverty to them and just the line went too close. I'm being passion blocked. Almost. I was passionate about delivering education to kids. Yeah. And I, there were too many blockers where it's like, I can't even, I can't even truly enjoy that bit anymore, which is the literal bit that I love. And the reason I went to this job because there's so many external factors that are just ruining that for me that I can't even go home and say I enjoyed teaching the kids anymore because there's things that ruined it. And like when it was getting hard, when it was getting more towards that, that's when I was like, I'm going to quit. I need, I have to, I have to. And then when obviously, you know, and, but you know, it's not like we just then just waited around and hoped it would happen from that point on. And was, I was actively building a life where I was like, OK, well, let's try and set myself up into a situation where I can.

43:05 And that's a really good point because. Yeah, we're looking at that question is in your gut. When did you know you've actually answered that question, to be fair perfectly, because that is when you knew. But it's not realistic to say that when someone's gut goes, they can just quit tomorrow. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, you have to do something about it. Like it took two years from that point. And it was still a risk, ultimately. Yeah, we tried to. Minimise the risk though, of course. But you knew, you knew. You knew in five years you couldn't be teaching, so you started doing something. Yeah, yeah. And do you know? What else is true? Just to throw a complete span in the works here, I I reckon if I got a teaching job next September, like 80% of my passion would be returned. And I think a lot of, a lot of it, I just needed a break genuinely. I actually, I actually think I went back into a classroom in September. I would gain loads of those things back that if I just carried on, I still wouldn't be doing. But do you think a year off I would? Do you think you'd lose it?

43:53 Quickly as well, probably. Probably that's what I think. I, I agree with you completely, I think. Let's say I got a job in September again until Christmas, I'd be like a man reborn right? But towards the end of that second term and then off January and stuff, I can imagine it wouldn't take me 7 years to realise it again. No, it would probably take me less than one to be like I'd have to go. With a different purpose, though, I'd have. If I went back in, I'd have to be like what? What? What would you? Purpose. I don't know, maybe like. Maybe I would be like, cool, I'm going to, I'm going to try and move up into SLT and make a difference for this school like you wouldn't want to. Repeat what you've done, basically. Yeah, I wouldn't. Want because I feel like I know what the ending is. So like I'd have to go in with a different goal of like, cool, I'm going to go back in and I'm going to try and find my passion again. But I'm going to really going to tackle this one thing that I didn't maybe didn't focus on before.

44:36 And I want to become this member of staff in the school that's the champion of this and that's going to be my thing now. Like I I'd have to go back in with something. I don't know what that is right now, but it would be something I wouldn't just shouldn't be enough. No, I don't think. So no, no, not not enough. I've done it, I've done, I've done it for a long time and I'd happily take it on again, but like, but it wouldn't. It wouldn't. You do it and you do it well and you're doing it now with maths and stuff like that, but it wouldn't be like, oh, that's why I'm back. Wouldn't be enough to get me back. Into teaching yeah, because I I'd need to do I need something else. I don't know you know that is genuinely the first time I've thought about this so I'm very much just forming my thoughts now but. And most of it is your. Opinion. So it's not like you're right or wrong. Yeah, and. Might change in a month, do you know what I mean? So interesting. What about you? Because I, I think mine, I do think my moment of realisation that I was going to quit was earlier than yours 100%. Because I, I, I had everything you thought, but the, the joy and the feeling I got from teaching outweighed all the crap stuff for way longer than it did for you. Like I did get to that point where I just thought, I don't want to do this anymore.

45:35 But I kind of, even when I got to the point where I started to realise that I wasn't doing all the other little small stuff, my, my, you know, the, the outcome from that wasn't for me to say like you, Oh, I can't do it anymore. Then my outcome was to be maybe quite, you know, self important where I thought, oh, it's clearly not important then I care so much about the education of these kids and the outcome to be in quality that if I also think that this thing's pointless, it's because it is and therefore I just won't do it. And it's not like, oh, I really should be doing these things. I guess. I guess for most of it, I was still thinking, Nah, do you know what? I care so much and I'm good at my job, that if I have come to the conclusion that that's a complete waste of time and I shouldn't do it anymore and I'm not doing it, that's OK. I can hurry on teaching.

46:17 But, you know, I do think though, they still got to a point where I was like, yeah, but there is some stuff. So that line was later for me. Basically, I started dropping stuff off and I thought that's fine until I kept doing it, kept doing it. And I was like, you know what? Actually, I don't care enough about these small things. And it will in the long term have a hindrance on what I'm doing for the job. And I had to be honest, like that's why I stepped away in the end. I actually still think 100% before I retire, I'll be back in the classroom in some respect, teaching. And I think it'll be, I say before I retire, I think before I'm 40, genuinely, I'm 32 now. Like I can see it happening in some respect. I, we were in our school recently, our old school, because we were looking at mathsu and they're going to be using mathsu and seeing what it's like with the children, etcetera.

47:04 And that's really, really, really exciting. But even just walking through and seeing the classes and the lessons, that was a huge part of me that thought, oh, this is what I do, this is me, this is my environment, this is where I excel, this is where I'm really good at my job and the kids learn loads. So I definitely miss it a lot. But like when did I know in my gut it was a guttural reaction And it was, I think when it was a mixture of stuff. I guess where you're saying you realise you had to, then you made it happen. I kind of knew that I need to make it happen so I have the choice. So I was still making it happen whilst I'd think, you know, I'll just keep teaching. I'll keep teaching. I'm part time, I do a couple of days. But then, you know, at least then when I made the decision, do you know what I actually know?

47:45 It's time to stop. At least then I was in the position to make that choice. I think having that choice is really important and if you're a teacher in general. If you're in. Any career, excuse me, any career in general, I think it's actually really important to just think to yourself, what if I'm not doing this in 10 years for whatever reason? Yeah. It could be that you're worried AI is going to take your job. It could be that you're worried that you'll lose your passion. It could be that you're worried right now that you don't think you want to do it anymore. Don't wait until you get there to start thinking, oh, I need to have a path out. Yeah, just just just start thinking. Just start having an idea. Give yourself options. The more options you have, the more power you have in your own life. And you don't want to get to a point where you're 45 and you're like, oh, this is all I've ever done and I hate it now. And I've done nothing else ever that that's what I wanted to avoid.

48:31 And there are people out there who are 4550 now who are in that position, and they, they regret it. Yeah. I'm I just? I just think as much as you can give yourself that option because there's nothing that scares me more than being 50 and having zero option of what to do with my own life. Yeah, yeah. So that's what I'm trying. To do now, yeah. Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah. So, you know, do you get? Embarrassed posting yourself online? Yeah. But you know what? It's gonna be another option, yeah. Yeah, do you? Well, why? Why do you why do you do this? People just, you know, comment stuff and it's just hate Yeah, but it's gonna be another option. I'm gonna start posting math stuff online. Let's start posting memes online. Gonna start doing a podcast, gonna open an Ed tech company with a bunch of people. It was a. Bit silly there, wasn't it? When you were, when you were living at your mum's and you started up a little silly little tutoring company, wasn't it? Yeah.

49:12 It was silly, wasn't it? Yeah, silly. Pays my mortgage though. Yeah, weird. No, definitely. Hey ho, thanks for that. That was a good question that really made me very good think and reflect. Let's finish up there. Shall we? You know, we said we're going to make start doing short episodes. Yeah. It's just not. Happening is it nothing We like talking Sorry what producer Producers tell us this stuff produces the door the. Door for my toilet. I thought it was the lack of radiators personally. The producer is the lack of radio, so I thought that's what it. Was right guys we'll. See you next time, remember to leave as a rating. Send this to someone you think might find it a nice little listen and don't forget. Join us for our webinar, it's completely free. Tuesday the 24th of February.

49:53 Come along, come on, come and see Mathsu coming in your school please, please, please.