Ep 173: The Vital Role Of A Parent: Getting Children School Ready & Supporting Their Journey Through Education

0:00 Before we get into the usual spill where I say hello everyone blah blah blah blah blah, just a quick one. In a second this video will turn off Hayden. Why? Because I forgot to press record on the video cameras. So if you're watching this, what I want you to do is the exact time stamp when the video comes back, you leave that as a comment down below and people might be thinking, why is everyone leading us towards when Hayden talks about the terrible twos? Let's find out. Enjoy the episode. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Teach Sleep, Repeat. My name is Dylan and my name's Hayden. And today we're going to dive into something that has become very much at the forefront of our minds over the last couple of years, I think, which is all about when you have your own child, what as a parent is your role in preparing them for education, for school, for life.

0:45 And yeah, I, I see, I see a lot of things online, people getting angry when the government suggests this might be the best thing for a child to be doing by the time. Some of it's very reasonable. Some of it I think's over the top. So we're going to really dive into this episode, into what advice there is, what the role of a parent is compared to the role of a teacher going through the whole of the school journey. But I just want to start off by throwing over to you, Hayden. In general, what is the role of a parent when it comes to a child's education? Well, I, I will ask that question and just lay a tiny bit more context here, which is it wasn't longer that me and you said since having our own children, it has made us reflect on our career as teachers pre children where we'd maybe cut parents a lot of slack because we didn't understand the situation for not doing things like reading, which we'll talk about now. And we've kind of revisited that thought and thought actually, do you know what?

1:34 Maybe we were wrong and that that's kind of what has sort of spurred this conversation because ultimately we do have children now and there too, and it's not going to be long before they're in school. And we're obviously thinking, oh crikey, there's lots of stuff I should be doing. So go back to your question about what parents should be doing in general. Firstly, we need to, and we said this in our last episode, go and go back and watch the Q&A from Monday. We need to eliminate this strange phenomenon that's going around, which is parents saying I'm not an unpaid teacher. That's the teacher's job. I'm not going to do any of this stuff. As if, like, as if the parent isn't almost like #1 the core, like role in that child's life. And also not a teacher.

2:14 Like, what do you mean you're not a teacher? What are you doing if not teaching your child literally everything ever about life? Like that is what you're doing even passively? Like maybe they're just misunderstanding the idea of they think, oh, teaching is a thing you can only do in a classroom. Is that well, it's not, is it? You're always passively, sometimes actively teaching your child thing. So I think the role of a parent is as fundamentally as important as a teacher's role in terms of teaching a child how to grow up, how to be a human in society. More important, yeah. Yeah, not as important. More important, I'm being kind by that. No, no, no. Don't be kind. Be realistic. That's the whole point of this. You're the ultimate role. It's not equal. It's not remotely equal on an individual child's basis. That individual child should be learning much more from their their parent than they are from their teacher. It's not close.

3:02 What are we doing? Who are we kidding? The the vast majority of what a child learns and what we can map out for their future in education and their ability comes from those years where they're not even in school yet. Does that. Is that not enough evidence to shoot to prove to parents that you are vital? You are absolutely the number one source of teaching of education for your child, especially in that early years period when we think about the role of a parent compared to the role of a teacher. A teacher slots in a teacher does something very important, train very, very well and will give quality, quality input. And you take their lead almost when it comes to the child being in school.

3:43 But you've got to look at it holistically here, right? Yeah. When I think about our children, my son is 2 years old, there's not a reason in the world that he doesn't get rid to every day. There's not a reason in the world that I don't sit and talk to him every day and develop his speech. That's teaching. And I think maybe some people are getting confused when they say I'm not a teacher and they think I'm not doing this worksheet except for the homework, right? No, no, you are a teacher and you are so important. And when we look at declining literacy rates, declining rates of, you know, ability to speak, why RSE is so important, there is only so much we can introduce in school because it starts early. And if parents aren't putting in that groundwork, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of reasons why there's less time than ever to be doing this for your child.

4:28 Dual income households where both parents have to work just to keep afloat. But having had my child there, there is no excuse. The first thing that happens is what he needs for his development. That's the first thing. Oh, I was at the cinema last night. Cool read on the way to the cinema. Oh, it had, it had dance club. Really important. Active, healthy, fantastic. That's what my son might need that to, to stay healthy. But he needs to read as well. He needs to be counting. Importantly, he needs to have a conversation. It the role of a parent cannot be understated. It cannot be overstated. Sorry, it can't be overstated. It's the most important thing. And and like you said, even then I could tell you almost slipping back into that.

5:10 Oh, you know, it's it's about the same. It's not. The role of a parent is by far more important, especially in the Azalea. So now you've obviously had Rory and I've had River thinking back then to that initial context that we were talking about the other day where we're like, yeah, we should have a conversation about this where you were saying earlier on in my career I would give parents way more leeway and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine. What what fundamentally then do you think, what understanding of did you have then that made you think when parents said, oh, no, we didn't do any reading this week because of this. And you were like, yeah, that's totally fine. Just try and find some time. What's changed then? Like what do you what did you think then? What do you think now? Like? Yeah, I think there's two things going on to break things down. I do think there's two things going on. The first thing that's going on is when anyone has their own child, I think it does kick in for a lot of people. You think, Oh my goodness, this is in my hands, This is in my control.

6:01 Like I am the person who is caring for this other human being here. And if anything, I always think I, I can't do enough for him. I, I always think, oh, am I doing enough reading? Are we talking enough? Am I doing something else when I could be with him constantly doing this development, etcetera. That's the first thing that happens to everyone. But also you've, you've got to look at it in the context of I've talked for 10 years. I can tell when a child has had lots of input in their early years and help and support and come from a supportive family in that respect. I'm not blaming the child for this and I'm not saying every single child with lots of input does better. Every single child with less input does worse. Please don't assume these generalisations. However, in the whole population and me having taught thousands of children, you do start to see a trend.

6:46 It's the reason why literacy is dropping at the minute. Oh we can't talk about trends in general. Yes we can. It's dropping because there's less time being spent on developing the children younger. Yeah, it's a fact. On an individual level, you can nitpick all you want, whatever. Don't care past caring now, because I've had my son and I know what I will do for him to give him the best chance, not to guarantee he'll be top of his class in reading, writing. I will give him the best chance. And if there's barriers, SEND needs, anything in the way, we'll come across that and we'll fight that and we'll do that together. But I'm going to give him the best chance for success. Yeah, I agree. And I'm glad you sort of approached the generalisations and the, and the fact that we're talking about trends here, because I think I almost felt like when we, when you started talking, I was like, oh God, we're going to do a disdainment at some point because there will be someone who's nitpicking just on the language we use. So when we're talking about parents, we're talking about anyone in a parenting role, OK.

7:36 We're not, I'm not going to sit there like do a formal letter every single time where it's like parents and carers and and all this we're talking about. Very important people. Very. Important people who parent children. Yeah, OK, the verb to parent. OK, that's what that's what we're talking about. And when we're talking about generally children, we are extremely hyper aware. Like it would be very silly of us after attending the teaching to not know that sometimes children have SEND, sometimes children just simply don't fit the trend for literally any other reason, maybe S&D, maybe something else like so just just have that all in your mind. Like we're not just we're not unaware of these things. We're not really naive to how the world works. We're just talking about general trends that are factually like you cannot argue that the national rate for reading for pleasure has dropped significantly.

8:17 It's not like it's a small drop and we can maybe make some guesses as to what it's enormous drop. It's a massive drop. And that's just one thing that sparked this idea of this conversation about, OK, what is the parents role? Because I'm seeing a massive rise online of parents saying, yeah, screw school, we hate this school system and sometimes legitimate reasons, but then saying I'm not going to teach my kid anything. That's your job. Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's take a step back because actually that's not how it works. And that's probably probably a huge contributing factor as to why we're having this discussion in the 1st place about the fact that children are not getting what they should get before they get to school, during school and after school. Like it drives me crazy. Isn't it sad when the thought of what people might think about what you're saying has more of an impact on what conversations you have than the literal outcomes of the kids in the I pass caring?

9:06 You see, it's it's nose diving. We care so much about the next generation. If someone gets a little bit upset because we said the thing that makes them back, Oh, I'm I'm a parent and I try really hard to read, try harder. Do it, just do it every single night. And it this Oh, I'm holier than thou because my what I'm about to say every single night, Rory, every single night when he's going to bed, he will say to us, Rory Reed, Rory, pick three books 12312 and he'll go and get 3 books every night. Do you think that happened by accident? No, do you think he just happened to be able to count to 3 and pick three books and want to read every evening? Was that potluck? No, he doesn't come up to me and say, Rory, get a carbonara, eat his carbonara in the bed.

9:46 That would be random, right? If he did that, it's because I said every night, it's carbonara time, kid, which I installed him exactly. It's time to eat spaghetti. It's bedtime. The only reason every single night he says that is because we've done it every single night. There have been days after days after weeks after weeks where Lauren and I have read a book to him and he's not been interested. After the 5th time. Very easy, could have been asked. No point. No, there is a point. There is a point because one day he'll turn around, sit in your lap and want to take it in. One day he'll point to the pictures. He started pointing to pictures, now making his own story up. Rabbit on the tractor. Rabbit, go vroom. Vroom. It's not the word to say. It doesn't matter. He's reading. It's only because we've put it in front of him.

10:27 I've done it every single day. Oh, I've done it every single day for two years and my child doesn't like it. Well done. That's all you can do. Fantastic. Keep doing it and it might not work. Yeah, exactly. But for 99% of people, you'll end up happening. What's happening to my son, which is he likes reading. So just play the odds. That's what I'm saying here. Play the odds, parents, please just give it a go because it might not work, but you know what? It probably will. It's really weird because my guttural reaction listening to us right now is it sounds because of just the way that this narrative been pushed for decades. It sounds unbelievably snobby. It does. It sounds snobby and like, oh, like we couldn't possibly like one-size-fits-all. And there's and there's, you've got to do this one thing and everyone's situation is fine. I think the ultimate point here to make is everyone's situation is different and every child is different. So there are lots of factors as to why it might not go perfectly with the trends that we're talking about. Like everything.

11:21 But like Dylan said, there are simply factually too many situations where parents and carers could be doing something and are choosing not to do that something. Choosing not because of an external factor, not because of the child's individual needs. It's there, they're just not doing it. That's realistically the only reason why we'd see such an enormous decline like this. Wouldn't it has to be some sort of societal change like that. It's not that. Suddenly the next generation of children are. They're just being born different. And then it is so significant. That's why it's dropped. It's not that. Teachers haven't suddenly just changed how they approach reading. OK? It's not, it's not just been sudden like that. Do you know what you could point to is the rise, the infinite rise of social media and the attention grabbing algorithms that are affecting adults? You have to look at yourself.

12:11 I've done it myself, by the way. I know I get hooked in and I spend too much time on my phone. And I know for a fact that when I do that, Rory gets less time talking to me. Rory gets less time reading right if we extrapolate that and I don't force myself to turn my phone off and go and read with him. If I just let that happen and be passive about it and then wonder what on earth happened, My kid doesn't want to read anymore. Let's put two and two together and don't have to blame parents because these big tech companies are ploughing billions into getting your eyes on the screen and rewiring you and literally getting your chemicals in your body to want dopamine quickly and and make you do that right. But that means that your child gets less time looking at your mouth move as you talk to them, less time forming words and sentences, less time hearing stories which will have a detrimental effect effect on them.

13:00 And it's a double effect because ultimately as well, if you're in a situation where they're constantly looking at you doing that on your phone and you're not interested in the book and you're interested in the algorithm on your phone, they are also just picking up that, oh, that thing's more interesting. And then we then we wonder why you give it five years and we see so many kids 5678, you know, whatever age who are absolutely already totally, totally addicted to social media and totally addicted to the algorithms. Basically just YouTube Shorts, Instagram reels, whatever they can get their hands on. Even when we put age restrictions in place, let's be honest, so many people just don't just completely disregard it or they'll have YouTube Kids and it's still just, you know, for their age, but it's still just algorithm. Scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll. It can still be very much nonsense. Very different experience to reading a book.

13:40 Yeah, it is very different. And then we go, oh, well, that's. They're not into reading. Yeah, they're not into. They're not into reading because you've let them for the last three years scroll on YouTube because you also do that. And you wanted to scroll on your phone. And the thing you can get them to do because they're interested in what you're doing is also scroll. And then you've created this situation. It can be avoided. Is the point. Is it tough? Yes. It's unbelievably tough. Billionaires are spending trillions of pounds getting you addicted to this stuff from making your kids addicted to it, because they profit off of it. They make money off of it. So of course it's, it's probably as hard as it ever could be because so much money has gone into the profiteering side of making you, making you that way. But you just have to acknowledge it. It's still, it is still ultimately not an excuse. It's a reason.

14:22 You can say this is the reason why the situation exists, but you can't then use that to excuse it. No, completely. That's the difference we're trying to make, I think. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely that. And it, it permeates, doesn't it? Like the role of a parent. We talked about in general that I think it's really important what you're saying and everything to do reading, etcetera and education, but also behaviour. Like I see it myself. I've gone to how many different clubs with Rory, right? We go to football club, he goes to he's done some dancing clubs, he's done some century clubs. Like very lucky boy, he gets to do all these experiences, but giving them that enrichment. Not everyone can afford to do that. But you know, even at the like he's done loads of free activities that cost nothing, right? That's not my point. My point here is I've seen other parents with other children who simply aren't enforcing any kind of understanding of being polite, having boundaries, listening to other people taking things in. And I've, I've seen it before.

15:17 We've been we've been to football coaching before where the coach has said, right, everyone go and sit down and listening ears on and kids are running around shouting and screaming and the poor coaches, they're saying, all right, come on, get back to your parents, kids. What are the. The parents could not be less interested. Yeah, yeah. Just sat there laughing. What's he like? Because you're not remotely telling him to listen. It's not easy being a parent. Oh, I can't well, we can't do that. He doesn't want to. That's why gentle parenting. It's a bad, bad name because people think of that. People think of parents who are like, oh, no, oh, look at him. What's he like running around when you've asked him to stop? You're his dad. Yeah, yeah, get him to stop, pull him over. And if he certainly he doesn't like it, he'll soon learn that you've got to have boundaries and you've got to listen.

16:00 And what gentle parenting is, is at that stage not maybe smacking them and yelling at them, right? That's what gentle parenting isn't. Don't have boundaries for your kids. Gentle parenting is actually hilarious if you actually anyone just spend more than 5 seconds reading about it rather than looking at Instagram. Real someone saying someone from the 60s saying gentle parenting is really bad. I didn't do this. They probably did. They might have done, they might have done, they might not even realise. It or they hit them around the. Head or they or they didn't yeah, but a lot of people do gentle parenting didn't realise they're doing it because mental parenting is about setting boundaries and being really clear and firm, but also modelling. Modelling emotional. What's the word emotional like security in yourself like control. Yeah, emotional control, regulation. That's what I was looking for yeah. That's what it's about anyway. But that's that's almost a separate no. But it's but, but it's not a separate point because if we're talking about the role of a parent, that's part of education, that's part of society, right?

16:46 Let's not just box education as doing your sums and doing your reading, although it's really important. Also in those early formative years, you have to teach your child like, and people underestimate kids all the time. Kids pick up and stuff so quickly. We're always 2. And he knows what listening is are like, yeah, mate. People always joke and say, oh, you can tell he's a teacher's kid. Yeah. But also because it's not just random. It's not just teachers had a kid and then suddenly the kid knows what listening is. Are I've taught him? We've taught him. Does he get stuff wrong? Yes. Does he cry and moan? Yes. Yeah. Does he sometimes not want to do things? Yes. But it's my job to teach him. Yeah. Exactly how to behave? We river is like she's and firm.

17:29 You know people call the terrible twos and I understand why terrible is because 2 is when their brain starts exploding with emotion and everything, everything starts becoming realtor and they're learning everything for the first time. Terrible twos Is that when you forget to press record? Is that somehow when you terrible 2 terrible 2 didn't press record on the two cameras Is that terrible twos? Yeah, Terrible 2 cameras not turned on as a. 1st for everything Dylan as a first thing and. So wait, do you find a new first every week somehow? That was the first time that's happened. First time this happened. I mean, it's the first time 100 things happened in a row, yeah. That is the first time that's happened, yeah. Do you know it's it's it's fine, because it's not like we had so many succulent moments for reals that we could put out there, which we'll never see a live there now just for you, the podcast this and you watch the thumbnail for a bit. Hope you enjoyed that. You've got us now.

18:09 Absolutely. We're back on, we're back on Cam baby. But yeah, normally we'd restart that, but we just thought it's such a conversation. We can't. We can't restart that. Terrible twos though. Terrible twos. Anyway, what was I saying? So yeah, terrible twos. Weird term because realistically I was always terrible. 2 was a stupid generalisation but anyway, so River goes the nursery, right? And she is really, really starting to push boundaries at home. And the point I like to make when I'm talking to my family, talk to Lauren, everyone about boundaries, is when she's at nursery there are certain things that she will do and she will not push the boundaries a bit. And when she's at home, she'll do the same thing but push the boundaries and it's so easy. It's so easy as a parent to cave genuinely. The other day we spent 45 minutes, 45 minutes not caving when it would have been really easy to because she wants us to do things for her that she can do very, very easy herself.

18:58 And literally it was pulling up her trousers. All she has to do is pull up her trousers. She does it in nursery without a doubt. She goes to the toilet, pull up her trousers and she goes no, no, you do it. No, no, you can pull up your trousers. That's fine. And she refused for 45 minutes to do that. And I, and I had to pop out as well, annoyingly after like 20 minutes because I had to drop a laptop to someone. And I said to Lauren, I was like, please, standard, please don't cave. Yeah, it's all on you now, but please don't cave. I know this is ironic from me. I'm the person leaving please. And she didn't. And when I got back, still going and then she decided at one point just go, oh, pull trousers up and carry on as if it was nothing. And it's a silly example, I know. But like the point is as a as a parent, you are teaching lots of things. And in that situation, there it was. It was I'm teaching you is about behaviour, but being social, being responsible for yourself. And it would have been way easier, way easier to just pull them up for her.

19:44 I will try it another time. All I would have done there is reinforce the idea that at home she doesn't have to, she doesn't have to buy by certain rules or boundaries. We'll just do it for her. And then and then you get a spoiled kid. You know, you think when they grow up, I don't want them to be that kid. I don't want them to think that I take everything for granted and I can just get this or I can just go to mummy and daddy and they will just. Sort the issue out for me. Like you, basically, we shouldn't learn me and Daddy. Yeah, no, but in all seriousness, as, as as a teacher, there are certain kids where over the years they've done something wrong, categorically wrong. There's no argument about it. They've gone home. They've got their parents to come in and complain and basically lie for them and say no, they didn't do this. They'd never do that. What are you talking about? Yes, they did. I saw it with my own eyes. Why are you telling me that? Oh, my child doesn't lie.

20:25 Yes, they do. You've just. You've not like you've pandered. You've pandered too long. Too long. And now, Now they don't behave correctly in social situations, including school. It's not good. No, it's frustrating. And I think we can summarise this whole thing up right now with how important parents are right when we're comparing it to education, etcetera, and how the early years are so formative in everything, whether it's education, social aspects, blah, blah, blah. The easy route is often not the best route. And, and I can see why it's the path of least resistance is usually hard to do from a hard to do that. I'll just let them run around. I can't be bothered with the meltdown in case you've done them. The the hard route is often the best for the child. And, and it can just be, you know. Oh, you're blaming parents.

21:07 Yeah, yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, I am actually, because you chose the easy route and that's bad for the child. So what I thought we could do now, I saw a lot recently from the government talking about being school ready for every reason we've already explained, you can imagine some of the backlash. What is school ready? School ready is different for every child. Yes, of course it is, But just to let everyone know this was guidance and they released well, they kind of it was created collaboratively by a bunch of people. You've got CBBS in here, parenting parent kind Ark star. There's loads of different actual expert people who've come together to say if you want to get ready for reception, this is what you should be doing with your child beforehand. It's supported by loads of people makes sense, universities, etcetera.

21:51 It's just a fact. OK. And it what I will say before we go into what's actually on this is one of the very, very let me let me read you the first sentence of this guidance, right? We understand that all children develop at their own pace and that we're all learning from birth. OK, there we go. So when someone comments and they're saying my child doesn't suit this thing, they've just not read the first. Sentence My child was counting by two days old. OK. Equally, you've not read this, you've not read, you've not, you've not read the first sentence which acknowledges it's the disclaimer that we did earlier, which is we know that people are different, but there are huge trends and we're going to talk about the trends. Second, second sentence. When it's time to start school, some children will need more help than others. Yes, yes.

22:35 So, so look, anything here you go on to read some. And you think, well, my child can't put their coat on by themselves. I know, I know. But obviously if we could pick, they would be able to do that. Right. And I can't write this guidance for every single child individually. Honestly, there are key skills that schools expect children to be learning before their first day note, to be learning not to be amazing at and be able to definitely do all of you all the time. Anyway, I'm going to skip past all that because this couldn't be more clear. There's even a section underneath. What if my child has additional needs? All of this is before we actually get to the document. So let me just be really clear to anyone listening right now who get got triggered by this. Genuinely why?

23:18 Like do you want this to not exist or do you want it to be 75,000 pages long for every individual child in the whole country? Yeah, and then no one reads. It it's guidance, yeah. OK. So let's just get that clear from your point of view. Yeah. What kind of things, and I'm talking on the macro level here, like what kind of things do you think children should be focused on learning before they go to school, for example, Let's just say for a minute you could say education would be one kind of thing, like learning things. It does break it down a bit more. I'll give you the first one to give an example. Yeah. Yeah. Building relationships and communicating. Yeah, sure. So, so communicating and, you know, talking between people, that's one key aspect here. It breaks it down. Yeah.

23:58 Yeah, yeah. What else? Do you think, OK, that yeah, that's really interesting, like the category. So yeah, definitely some sort of social interactions before they're about to be in a classroom of potentially 32 kids. It does make sense to them to have spoke to another as a child before then. Definitely. I think I always think of like motor skills. So fine motor skills, gross motor skills, physical development, right. I even though I still think really they're going to get the bulk of that at school because we've got all the amazing equipment. I get that. But there is definitely in this guide. I'm hoping in this guidance, like you just said, there is going to be something here of here are some things you could do to help develop their fine motor skills because they are going to be picking up pens and pencils at school and quite quickly be expected to use them for something. Sure do that. And also gross motor skills, like just literally the expensive jumping. Yeah, we'll come to them. So you've got physical development and and building relationships. There's two more, I think cognitive stuff, so. Well, to cognitive I think is coming in communication and stuff.

24:43 It doesn't go into that. Oh, interesting. Sorry. Like the more like pastoral stuff like can they go to the toilet growing independence, independence. So it comes down there great. Like you said, you know, pulling up your own pants, etcetera. To be clear, I have not seen this document. Yeah, you did it this way on purpose. So you. Can have this to expose you here. So we've got growing independence, building relationships and communicating physical development. And there's one more on here. I think you've literally mentioned it today to me. Like, is that the role of the teacher or not? Oh, I can't. I don't know. Go on, just tell me healthy routines. Brush, brushing, brushing your teeth, et cetera, eating right food and all that kind of stuff. So, so, yeah, it doesn't even just say explicitly number bonds to 10. Yeah, because that's not what that's that's not what this is. No reading very much comes in with communication because that that act of reading and telling a story and talking to you like what's going on, that's all part.

25:27 Of communication, I'm glad. So that, yeah, no, no, that's, that's what it mean by, we'll say communicating a language, right? Like reading is all about language. That's the most important thing in the world. It's so intrinsically linked with the most human skill at all. You think about what separates us is our language. Communication, yeah. So yeah, I thought it was very interesting. I'm going to read you some here. I'm going to whisk through them and just see if anything jumps out of you after I've gone through a whole section, maybe because you think it's really necessary or maybe not. We'll talk about it from there. So let me wish through this. This is growing independence. So this is from the government document what children should be trying to learn to try and be school ready to get to get there. Putting on and taking off their coat and their shoes, using the toilet and washing their hands, getting dressed with as little help as possible, using cutlery and drinking from an open cup.

26:11 Spending time away from you and learning they can be looked after by other caring adults. Then it's got a bit about playing curiosity, taking part in imaginative play, drawing, painting, colouring, sticking, sharing storybooks with caregivers, looking at pictures, talking about the characters, exploring the world around them, looking closely at nature or the world or bugs or creatures and things like that. And. Objects, so all that to me, there's two things that like were screaming out in my head there. The first thing was the first few of to me were like safeguarding. It's like in terms of like, of course we'd rather children being able to go to the toilet themselves. Of course, you'd rather than being able to put a coat on and stuff because it just does genuinely, and that sounds really cynical, but it does just literally avoid the the necessity of, of adults who aren't parents having to do those things with children. It just reduces risk on average.

26:54 You know what I mean? So that just makes sense to me. And then the other stuff is all about it's getting them school ready in terms of can they just be away from you and will they fit into that environment? Is there anything you can do? Yeah, exactly. Independently, but also specifically in a school setup, if you can do these things with them, which basically everything else on that list, it will just make their time a bit easier and they'll settle in, hopefully easier. It's about settling in. It's not even about like replacing what a teacher does. It's just give your child the best chance of enjoying school. That's what that screams out to me. And I look at this list, there's nothing in this list that I don't think. Oh, I already of course do that. Teaching him how to drink from an open cup, using a knife and fork, taking part in imaginative play, drawing, painting, colouring. That's sort that to me is just having your own child. What do you do with?

27:43 2 year olds, what do you do? With two year old, Yeah. So there's nothing here that I think you ask me to do this. I'm not a bloody sorry. That's just the bare minimum and. You've got to remember this is by school age as well. Yeah. You're talking about your two year old. Yeah, yeah. He's got, based on where he's born in a year, he's got like nearly three years until he goes to school. So I'd absolutely hope that your 4 year old version of your child, even if you hadn't done it then, would be like trying to drink out of a cup by then. And. Well, like what? We had his two year review recently and a lot of this stuff's on your two year review. Kind of drink from an open cup. Yeah, like climbing and stuff coming to physical. He's climbing everything right now. Let's keep going. Let's go to the next one. So this is building relationships and communicating. So I'll read through all these again quickly. Being with others, so practising sharing and taking turns.

28:26 Talking to them about how they're feeling and why. Looking at storybooks together and speaking about what the characters are feeling. Beginning to recognise what others are feeling. Encouraging them to set boundaries for themselves and others. Communication and language. Singing along with songs and nursery rhymes. Talking happily to others about activities and experiences in the world around them. Showing they need help by speaking clearly. Recognising the pattern of their name. Listening and engaging. Paying attention for short periods of time. Listening to and following simple instructions. Carrying on with a task even when it's difficult and bouncing back when things go wrong. It's just common. Sense is this not just being a human? Yeah, yeah, genuinely it. Feels like common sense again. Am I being a snob for thinking that's common sense? Do you know what?

29:08 Probably, maybe some of those things might not come. To mind someone say OK oh it says here showing they need help by speaking clearly. My child can't speak. OK. Yeah. What do you think I'm saying? Well, that well, that kids not ready for school. It's not what we're saying No, no. If a child is able to do we put that at the start of every one of these sentences. Honestly, even says after in basic English or sign language. It's like it's just we, we, we would like children when they go to school to be able to ask for help when they need it. No, that's bloody Abel. It's what on earth we wouldn't like that actually not bothered. Yeah, take it all out. Scrap it. Scrap the document. I don't give parents any. They have to guess, even though a lot of this will just come naturally. They have to guess what this list is, and then everyone's left feeling a bit anxious about what on earth they're supposed to be doing with the kid before. School Don't you feel like this, this the the It's not a high bar.

29:58 No singing along to songs. Yeah, like Rory does that every day. Just sing some. Songs. Just having some songs to sing. Rory still sings Jingle Bells every day. It's not been Christmas for over a month, so, you know, I don't know. Yeah. Anything next one? Physical development, walking up and down steps 1 foot at a time, using the wall for support, climbing, running, jumping and playing. Catching a large ball most of the time. Doing simple puzzles and craft activities for strengthening their grip when cutting and sticking. These are just layman terms for what you said. Gross motor skills. Fine motor skills balance. Just play a little bit. Yeah. That's it really. Just play a little bit.

30:39 It's not even like the bar is not high. The bar is not high for that. Like really? It's not saying go to a gym class once a week and learn how to balance on hoops. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, like. That's not what it's saying. You do it if you want, that's cool as well. But also just get a ball, get a get a 50P beach ball and blow it up and throw it and see if they can catch it genuinely is not. We spent about half an hour the other day playing catch River. Remember she was catching it and then Rory was like Rory play and then Rory was catching it. It wasn't even I wasn't thinking. I got my ready to progress document out here. I can make sure that I'm ready for it's just play with your kids. Do you know what? Let's do healthy routines quickly because this comes in a lot more, I think to poverty effects this a lot more as well. I do think with healthy routines because it can be cheaper sometimes to eat worse food, brushing your teeth, etcetera, blah, blah, blah.

31:25 But in general what I'll just make the point of it does. It does though also make me sad. But I want to support people as much as possible who for whatever reason can't fulfil this. I'd really get, I really want to know because I think for the vast majority, of course you can, but there will be some people out there, I think who will look at this and go, you know, just whatever reason, education, they've not seen this list. They didn't have it done to them, so they're going to pass on to their kids. The same thing. That makes me sad because I read this and I think, my goodness me, this is what every child should have as a minimum. And there are some kids who aren't getting it sometimes through no fault, the parents, the parents just don't know. So that does make me sad. I will say that right now, I'm not just bashing people who aren't doing this. I'm just bashing most people healthy routines.

32:07 Going to bed around the same time each night and waking up in time to get ready for school. Limiting screen time to the recommended daily amounts. Bracket C advice. Eating a healthy diet and trying new foods. Brushing their teeth with toothpaste twice a day. Is that it? That's the. Word. That's healthy. For more, yeah, it's like, OK. Having gone for everything, I struggled to see what people. 'S problem was with this. Brushing your teeth is a given, right? I I mean the whole thing as well. So honestly, can we go for him one at a time, so genuinely? Going to bed at the same time each night and waking up ready for school. OK, that. Might be one of those things where people just didn't know about that, about the importance of that, like a routine. They. Yeah, because I think that's fair enough in terms of people. I I didn't grow up with that. No one's told. I've not read this document.

32:48 I didn't realise it had such an impact. I thought if they were tired, they just go to bed. Yeah, I can understand that one. Limiting screen time to the recommended daily amounts. That's what we talked about earlier as it is easy just to give someone an iPad. My child has an iPad but OK. Yeah, limited if you can. Yeah, that's it. If you can. There you go. Perfect phrase. Done. That's fine. Eating a healthy diet and trying new foods, I think that's more. I do think habits and poverty and money do come into that a bit, Definitely so, but I don't think anyone doesn't know though. No, no, no, no. And if anyone can read that and go, well, that's bad advice from the government. Is it? Yeah. That's just, you know what? That's something we all strive for genuinely. We all strive to be a bit healthier. Sometimes we don't want to. Sometimes we get allured by the unhealthy foods. Sometimes we can't afford the the great stuff. How many cream eggs do you have today? Oh.

33:33 None. No, no no. I had 6 yesterday. That you got averages out three a day and the last one brushing your teeth. Yeah. Twice a day, Yeah, it's just. But again, I read. So I read the book by Katrina O'Sullivan called Poor and I talked to you about it because it really had an effect on me in terms of anyone who doesn't really OK, let me rephrase this. Most people do not actually understand what poverty is and what living in poverty is like. Even people who think they're empathetic and kind of get it, you don't really understand what actually living in poverty is like and the reasons behind it and the health helplessness that goes into. It is that what you felt that basically you realised you didn't really? Understand, I, I think no Jay, I think I've seen a lot and I've through family members and stuff and they'll go back and like my parent, my mum was one of five and they were raised in like nothing because they didn't have anything.

34:24 And, and so I've heard a lot about it. And when I read the book, what I felt more of was like I guess I realised more the stories I've been told and what I heard were very real. It was more like affirming what I kind of felt like I knew and I understood about it because I've seen in my family in general, I've seen poverty in different ways in terms of people have absolutely nothing. But it's like through no fault of their own, they work really hard. They go 9 to 5. The system's beating them down. It's just, it's just awful. You got really fight education, education, education. Got got the got the kids out of it. My uncles and my aunties and stuff, my mum got out of it and then we benefited as a whole. Like I'm only here because of their attitude, basically. Yeah.

35:04 And, and then I've also got other family members who are in that cycle of 3rd, 4th, 5th generation council house owners not really picking themselves up, not really doing anything about it. Very different. And they're kind of stuck in that rut almost. And I've seen both outcomes from poverty. And I'm not saying that poverty automatically means no one can do anything, because it doesn't, but it means it's bloody hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think people quite understand. Like, it's so hard. And I would recommend reading the book Poor by Katrina O'Sullivan if you don't really have an insight into that world. It's her life story basically from being born, being raised in a household that is living in abject poverty and her journey through education and she's now working with, she works with universities, etcetera, and has come out of it.

35:45 But her story is insane. And you look at it and you think you can't think anything other than wow, it's not your fault. Jesus Christ, that's awful. What What you've gone through is horrendous and she always says like she hates to be a she would hate to come out of this and be like a bastion of see so anyone can do it. No, no, her point is that they absolutely can't. And and she is an she is an outlier and I love her attitude towards it because she was like she was scared to write the book and publish it because she didn't want to be a trophy person that people hold up and see. See, if you just pull it your bootstraps, you can get out poverty. No, you can't. Poverty's horrendous. It's awful. And when I look at this, I think that's what makes me sad. I suppose I'm like, there are some households out there where the child won't get this and it's through no fault of their own and it's through no fault of the family just because of what the way they're entrenched in society. Do you think then reflecting back on the previous ones, is it equally it seems more obvious for this one? No, I don't.

36:43 I don't because I do. There's, there's certain stuff there. This is what I mean when I think about how my parents grow up and how we grow up. Not having any money at all, right? Having nothing. But we played, but we jumped. But we did role play you. Brush your teeth. Right. Even brushing teeth, maybe. I'm sure I did, but I can understand some. They have no money left. It's like, oh, we've got to find some money somewhere. I brush your teeth once a day, share a toothbrush. That happens in poverty. People think it doesn't happen. That happens. I can promise you run out of toothpaste today. I can't go to the shop till next week, don't get my money until Friday. Don't have toothpaste for three days. That happens in poverty, right. So that that's where I see more, more boundaries in the poorest of the poor. But there's certain things here, like, you know, catching a ball. Yeah.

37:23 He was out in the street playing all day. Playing all day everyday. I was active, as people say, back in our day, we were playing out all day. Yeah, they were more active than ever. That's that's objectively a good thing. Maybe now there's less poverty than before, but children are nowhere near as active. But we have to take the whole picture, is all I'm saying. And there's certain things in here that there is no excuse to not do. My mum, she, she had a million silly rhymes and nursery rhymes from her mum that she knew from her childhood that stuck with her until she was older and she was, she would say those rhymes to me. I still remember those rhymes now. Nonsense rhymes, right? But they had nothing, but they could sing. What she didn't though, what she didn't have any from her, No. No. But what I'm, what I'm saying is there are certain things that that's not a barrier for, right?

38:04 There are some, if they don't have national rhymes, fine. Like, of course, I, I get that. That's why education's important. But there are certain things here where money isn't a barrier. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, OK, where everyone can do that thing. So no matter what we do, if we're talking about the outreach and people learning stuff, there might be people to some of this who say, well, I just can't just. I don't know, they're paid until Friday. I've got nothing. Yeah, yeah, sure. But then they'll look at, sing a song to your kids and be like, oh, everyone owns a national rhyme. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all I'm the only point I'm saying here is it's guidance and there are something on this list that it doesn't matter your background, yeah, it's gonna have a positive impact on your kid. You need to. Do it with them. Yeah. Money is not a barrier to talking to a child. Exactly. Money is not a barrier to singing a nursery rhyme child. If you don't know one OK from find out one then Like it doesn't cost you anything to find out a nurse 1 Exactly. Exactly.

38:45 Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, so that, that that's my that just went out a bit of tangent now. No, it's good. But in general, like this document, this document helped my family and things like this and understanding and and government incentives and information and education helped lift to my family out of this kind of this thing that it helped with social mobility. So let's not just be offended or we think, oh, you're on your high horse holier than now telling me what to do with my kid. Yeah, sometimes, yes, because I know best. And in this situation, this is backed up by universities, people who spend their whole lives dedicated to helping kids. Do you know what if they say sing a nursery rhyme to your kid? Do you know what you should do? Sing a bloody nursery rhyme with your kid and not sit and moan about it and say, well, I'm a parent. I'll do what I want.

39:28 Do what you want then, and we'll see what the outcomes are. Wow I agree, sometimes you just got to be told parents the phrase parents know best. Parents do parents. Do know best most of the time when it comes to individual needs of your child. That's the beauty of this. Parents know best in terms of how to interpret the nuance of this document. You know best whether your child fits into this trend or not. That's where you know best. The university lecture, though, the people have done all the research and the studies, they do know best in general. Whether something is beneficial or not for your child in general, they they have come to the conclusion for a very good reason. That catching a ball and reading a book and brushing your teeth will generally, if you can do those things, it will give them a better chance of success in education. And guess what?

40:14 Education is where you can break out of those chains. Education is your chance to is social mobility. It comes from education. It comes from your time in school. But yeah. People. And sometimes it isn't, but it is also other times. And this is this is what we're trying to get through to people here. It's about chances, right? Give, give your child's, you know, children the best chance possible, please, because we've seen the impact it can have. So just just around, we've talked for a long time now. So I think maybe we can just finish off with quite rapidly. Let's just talk through them from the point of view as a teacher, because we've done both. We're parents and teachers now when our children go to school, OK.

40:54 Or if your teacher's listening to this right now, what would you be saying to parents that you should be doing at home? And I'm talking now, past early years, we're school ready. We've gone past all that cool. We're in year 3, year 4, year five, year 6. Maybe you're headed into secondary school at that point specifically to do school. What should parents be doing to support their child's journey through life in general and support their education? There's a, there's a couple of nuances. There's slight nuances because as a teacher, you do actually have the benefit of knowing the children on an individual level. So there is some general advice. We can talk about things that they should be doing, parents should be doing. There's also situations where you actually have the power to look at that child who maybe doesn't fit the trend perfectly. And you can say, oh, by the way, I'm the expert.

41:36 Your child needs this thing. And it might be, it might be something physical, it might be a gross motor skill. And that might not be your general device for everybody, but you save their parent. You've got this beautiful opportunity and privilege to be a part of raising this child. And you can say this is something that an area they're struggling with. They're not up to date with their peers. There might be some reasons. Let's talk about it together. But here's an activity you could do at home to help them with their gross motor skills. And most parents with their head screwed on would say, thank you so much. Yeah. And most teachers with their head screwed on wouldn't even give this advice because they'd be too afraid of the backlash of you saying what you saying my my child can't jump? Look, are you saying my child's overweight? OK, yeah, that's that's what happened. That's the frustrating. I completely agree. That's the frustrating thing where we miss out on good advice or truth because we're too worried about how it might be interpreted. Exactly, which is sad.

42:19 Come on. Going back to your sort of general point to me, and I don't know, this is very obvious, but the absolute blinder top priority that you should do as a school if you have any amount of time that you're saying to parents to do things is reading. It has to be reading. You have to be at the forefront of everything you do. If you've got 7 other different homework things you do and you're finding parents just aren't engaging with a lot, a lot of this stuff, strip it back. Honestly, get reading is the absolute fundamental put. Get some guidance out there. Make if you need to get some parent engagement sessions, see how many parents you can get in. Is it only 10? OK, that's 10 more parents than wouldn't have come in if you didn't do it. Get them into school, put a little workshop on for half an hour after school. Reach out. Do anything you can. In your socio economic situation. You know the parents of your area better than anyone. What can you do?

43:02 Sit down with your team to engage those parents in your area and it will be different per per area. And that's what you'd be saying. You'd be saying, look, read with your children, support them with their understanding. I, I, you know, I love maths. I think maths is really, really important. But I'm not blinded by the fact that I can't argue against the fact that reading is number one, right? But #2 and I'd say they're both well ahead is number and understanding of, of, of actual how to manipulate number, number bonds, times tables, basic facts, right? Yeah, that's, that is very, very, very important as well. So I, I'd, I'd lump those two together. I'd, I'd lump those two in the fact of as, as a parent, what can you do to support? I'm just an unpaid teacher. Yeah, you are. Keep practising number bonds. If they're falling behind in class, practise a little bit at home.

43:45 Don't let it take over your life. We're not saying stop the clubs, you know, if you'd have the kids children, because another huge part I think that parents play in development of their child in educational is learning about other things. Is baking a cake, is going for a walk in nature, is pointing out, Oh, that bird looks different to that bird. I wonder what breed of bird that I'm going to find out on that tree actually is shading. I wonder why it's pointing towards the sun and those flowers look different. Learning, learning, learning, learning, learning, learning, learning, learning, learning vital. And that's that is another role. I'm excited as a parent to do that with my son. Yeah, definitely. You reminded me of something I want to share, but earlier on in my career, it's one of it was like maybe a parent's evening. I think it was. I remember I bought of me this big tub of 10 sided dice because I was really obsessed with that. I was in my number bond era.

44:28 Like I was obsessed with number bonds and timetable facts to that point, which I still am. But there's other era, yeah, era, right? And I remember parents even just literally, I was like giving them a dice. I was just giving them a dice and saying here's something you can do. Just it's a small activity. Your child is in year 4. They don't know the number once to 10. They're they're they're, they're great at lots of other things, but they don't know this fundamental thing. Stop practising shape for now. Just just just you know, what can we just get the number ones to 10 right? And then we'll work from there. And, and for them, that's what they need. They just need this one one step. Also read as much as you can. But that was might let me know my little maths thing. And you're right, if the foundations were what were coming to my mind there, I wasn't, I wasn't too worried if, if, if a child wasn't maybe super great with perimeter or algebra or something like that. At that point I thought, I'll teach that at school.

45:09 That's fine. If that's the only thing, I'm fine. I'll feed it back, but that wasn't, you know, too worrying to me. Whereas if they couldn't, if they weren't reading at age appropriate level or they weren't understanding like really basic foundational number facts where everything is everything on top of that is built from it. They were like high high high priority to me of like I need to tell the parent and I need to give them some advice on how to work on it. Because at the end of the day, that's what's gonna unlock their learning and everything else. Yeah, They can't do perimeter. Yeah. They can't add 6:00 and 9:00. What do you think? Gonna be able to add six sides of a shape together? Of course, they're not gonna be able to do that. And time at home is precious. That's the other thing. We don't not think that we know time at home is precious with your children, so when we're saying homework and saying to practise stuff, it's because that's what's going to have the biggest impact by far. Well, I think that's something that schools can reflect on genuinely.

45:55 I think one thing that every school leader, every person working in school could reflect on right now is knowing that time is precious. And there might be some families or lots of families in your school where that time is more precious than ever because they don't have much because of the working situation. What is it that you as a school are actually recommending as homework? Is it too much? Because you might genuinely be saying, yeah, you've got to do the reading and you've got to do these maths and you've also got to do this other project and you've got to do this and you've got to do that. And that's all part of your homework. And the parents are getting overwhelmed by all of it and not doing any of it. Is it that you can strip it back and say, do you know what? These things are great. And maybe they can be optional little things you do on the side, like you said, like even with the cooking projects, it's great. But that could be an optional if you're finding that your school is struggling with, but they're not reading enough. Like the reading, my pleasure is extremely low. Can you strip it back as a school? Can you prioritise elsewhere to help your parents? Yeah, I think that that's that's the way you gotta go about it. And look, let's just summarise this right now. I'm not just trying to, you know, make this big divide between home and school and and blame you, you blame me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

46:52 At the end of the day, what we all ultimately care about is the outcomes for the children. How can we increase the likelihood that children have better outcomes? It's more parental involvement at home in terms of their education and their learning in every aspect, social, physical, emotional, mental health and education in general, entertainment and being able to do numbers and reading and communicate. It is it takes a village. That's the saying and it is true. It takes a village to raise a child, but a village is usually have leaders as well. And the Chieftain of that is the parent. And it has to come from you. It has to come from you because we can't wait until we're at school to learn all of these things. We can't do that. We we have to put the groundwork in first and we have to support parents as much as we can to do it through education, through incentives, through giving them time to raise their own kids. That's a whole nother conversation we can talk about, but it has to come from the parents. It's an attitude.

47:43 And this, this whole episode is about trying, isn't it? It's not about if you haven't got to the end goal, you've failed. That's not what this is. It's just about trying. If you're not putting in the effort, then it can't happen. That's it. Because I, I, I, I reckon this will be the most the episode that we've done out of all our episodes where people might get their backs up because they'll think we're saying something we're not. They'll think we're just being parent snobs and we're not. And it is. It's not, but we're not. We're not actually being parents. We're not being choked snubs. We're literally just saying listen to the guy stop. Stop. Like snubbing the guidance as if it's not applicable. If anything, they're being snubs. Yeah, right. Genuinely, I could turn it around. You're being a snub. You're ignoring all of the evidence and thinking you know best automatically. That sounds quite snobby to me. Yeah, maybe that's it.

48:25 Maybe that's it, but that's it. All we're saying is try your hardest. Kids need that step up in life and it's harder than ever because of social media, because of the brain right algorithms your kids are exposed to, and harder than ever. And your experience, I think that's more by the way, I think it's more. And we are all victim to it. Literally last night you sent me an article on BBC, just a genuine, it wasn't social media. And my gut reaction was my phone buzzed and I wanted to have a look at it. And we were literally like just finishing the bath routine. And Lauren said do that after. She's right. But she's right. And in the moment, I can't argue with this because she's absolutely right. I can't. I felt foolish for like, of course, it's like a pivotal moment. I'm just about to read a story with her. I'm sat on the chair ready to get her. And I've got my phone out looking at this article because I want to read it instantly because you send it to me. And that's not even like the the bad brain rot. The other stuff is the algorithms are feeding to my brain.

49:08 I'm constantly addicted. I want to get it. Out and just scroll for 10 minutes. Do you mention if I was there in in person? I said and I passed a newspaper to you. I said, hey, then read this. You'd be like, well, not right now mate. I'm just about to read. I'm just about to. Do this thing which is obviously I'm in the middle of this, So what I'm trying to highlight there is I'm not pretending we're perfect. We're absolutely far from it, especially you, especially me, and even more so Dylan. But. But you've got to make a conscious effort. And Laura made that conscious effort in that moment of like, don't do that. That's bad. Because actually this thing is more, this is higher priority. And I know it's higher priority priority. And I still fell into the trap of getting my phone out right in front of my child or at bedtime when they're about to go to sleep, I'm about to read a story to them and I got my phone out. It's mad. It's, it's so hard to overcome, but you've got to try. Bad parents. Thanks. I'm joking, right, guys? Hopefully that was at least insightful, and I'd love to know what you think about it. And do you think we're completely off the mark here or not?

49:53 Yeah, let us know and we might read it. We might not. Yeah, yeah. Hope you enjoy the beginning as well where you couldn't see us. What we're going to do now is go and re record the intro and tell you guys that we didn't do it, Let's do that so that you can cut to that and you're not but. You've already heard that. Yeah. So that's weird. So is that Inception or Inception travel? That means you've got to restart there Pimento, play it again. OK, play again and share it maybe with a friend and follow and. Hello everyone, welcome back to.