Ep 175: Why Behaviour Is Getting Worse & How We Can Fix It

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach the

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Repeats.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden and.
Whether you are on the way to

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work or simply listening whilst
you're on a walk, on a little

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run, maybe you're at the gym,
maybe just at home chilling,

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listening to this podcast, we
are back.

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We are ready to chat.
All things behaviour today, but

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you had something you want.
To say, there's a quick thing I

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wanted to say and I thought
you'd be interested in this

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because it kind of indicates you
a little.

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Bit I'm used to be vindicating.
Boost your ego so therefore you

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don't know what.
Let me cock my ear, boost my ego

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please.
Like such an idiot.

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You're also still coining the
blanket from from the last

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episode that we just recorded.
Because from days before,

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there's still no radio slash.
Literally minutes to turn

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around.
And it's colder, yeah.

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Anyway, so I don't know if you
saw recently, but the DfE have

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come out and said, and this very
much backs up what we said

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Bridget Phillipson was talking
about when we went to Bet right,

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talking about AI tools.
Everything's about AI at the

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moment.
And they're saying that AI tools

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and AI tutors in in in
particular could level the

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playing field by providing up to
450,000 disadvantaged pupils

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access by the end of 2027.
I don't know if you saw that

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article, but I thought it was
very interesting because two

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weeks ago we had a discussion
and we very much argued about AI

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replacing teachers and how
everything at BET was very much

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like AI is so good.
Yeah.

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And even Bridget Phillipson and,
and the government in general,

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like, yeah, AI is so good, why
replace you teachers?

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Are you teachers are
irreplaceable.

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However, however, we are
investing money in AI tutors,

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which by definition, by
definition is doing the role of

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a teacher.
Oh yeah, or a tutor even like,

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which often is a.
Teacher of course.

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Exactly right and because they
are realistically talking about

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in school use as well.
So I don't know, I just thought

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it was interesting.
Schools week had a little

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article on it and basically
there was just a bunch of

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experts in this in various
different roles across education

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saying it's all right idea.
But like AI is still in its

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infancy when it when it comes to
like something as complex as

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actually teaching a child like
new concepts and things and and

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being being the role of a
teacher.

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So I just thought I would bring
it up because I was sat here

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saying there's no way in 100
years we're going to see of.

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Course, we will.
Is anyone is shocked by this.

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What are you talking about?
I'm not even.

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Again, I'm gonna say right now
I'm not even going on the good

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or bad side.
I'm not even.

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But.
But what I'm saying is that it

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is obviously a fact that this
will happen.

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Yeah.
We can see already that there is

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an appetite for people in charge
to be putting this in front of

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our children and it happening
right even before we're ready to

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do it.
So when we had the conversation

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previously, which was me saying,
yeah, but this will happen

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because it will come down to
basically the nerve of the

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humans in large of making these
decisions.

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It will come down to their
nerve.

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When it looks like this is both
cheaper and better, yeah, of

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course they're going to do it.
That was my point.

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Of course it will happen.
It's even happening now when

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it's not better.
It's not better now than a

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teacher most of the time, right?
But it is cheaper and it is

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going to give people a leg up
and it's going to be provided as

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an additional right.
So all of these, all of that

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context is really important
because I'm absolutely not

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saying that what they are
suggesting here is replacing

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teachers right now.
OK, so I'm not saying that

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before anyone says they're not
replacing teachers now, I know

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they're not.
But is this not one of the

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clearest indications ever of a
path you can see happening where

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where what I said is going to
happen?

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Like I couldn't be more sure
what I said is going to happen

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and it and it's not because of
any other reason.

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And then it just, it is just the
logical way of things going.

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Like I just, I cannot say it
will.

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It will simply come down to
someone choosing a more

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expensive option of actual
humans doing it and training

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them up and getting to the point
of doing it.

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If if the will is there to keep
that happening, then fine, but

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it obviously won't be.
We live in a capitalistic

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society where we try and drain
every single cent out of every

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single person.
Of course, this will end up

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being the norm.
I thought I just yeah, basically

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I thought it was interesting
because it very much is the

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beginning of that path.
It really isn't it.

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That's the logical conclusion.
This would if I was to design

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the pathway to AI replacing
teachers, this is probably where

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I start little interventiony
things, helping out, finding a

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little niche problem that it can
it can help solve.

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It's OK, actually teachers don't
have maybe enough a breadth of

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understanding and knowledge to
help these particular group of

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children, whereas this AI can be
trained in everything and and

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actually we can help solve this
problem better.

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Everyone goes, OK, we can't
really argue with that.

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What's your like without
catastrophizing and

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exaggerating?
Just just genuinely, you know,

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grounded opinion on this.
What what do you actually think

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of the idea of using a bit of AI
to help some kids in one to one

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tutoring in schools?
Do you think there is like

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actually some good from?
This 100%, yeah, yeah,

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completely.
It's it's a good tool to use,

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right?
Yeah.

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And again, in my version of
events where I'm like, you know,

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it could be labelled as
catastrophizing or going over

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the top saying everything's
awful.

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I very clearly did state I'm not
saying it's good or bad because

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in my definition is that
eventually it will be better.

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I also that's a very unpopular
opinion as well.

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I'm kind of pissing off both
people in, in this regard

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because what I'm saying is like,
you know, people who really want

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AI to come in and, and be a
force for good.

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I'm saying just slow down.
It's not necessarily always

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going to be the best thing in
the world.

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And actually just especially not
right this second.

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It's not quite there yet.
But also people who are saying

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like, teachers should never,
ever, ever be replaced.

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We shouldn't use any AI at all.
Like, honestly, what's wrong

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with you?
Of course we should.

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Of course there will be things
that AI will be better than a

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human app.
And there are some people who

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don't hear that ever.
They're like, no, a human is

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always better because of these
reasons.

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At some point that won't be
true.

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I'm sorry, it won't be true.
At some point.

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We don't want to go back into
everything we spoke about last

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time going listen to the episode
all about AI and education.

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At some point that won't be
true.

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Right now, there are some things
that AI is better at than humans

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and there are lots of things
that humans are better at than

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AI.
And I would not say just let it

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loose in front of the kids right
now and it'll be fantastic in

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all respects.
Has to be controlled, has to be

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alongside humans, has to be
alongside teachers and experts,

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absolutely.
But there is obvious see a role

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for this where it can hit
targeted intervention to

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children who need a boost more
than other children.

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Yes, of course it can be a good
thing the obviously.

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And announcements like this are
only going to spur it on more.

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Do you know what I mean?
It's just going to get people

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and Ed tech owners and just
people that are interested in

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this field obviously are going
to get excited by like even

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myself, right?
Seeing that announcement and

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then reading articles around it
may.

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But my genuine, genuine reaction
was, OK, so this is clearly

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happening.
I can even, I have nothing to do

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with it and just watch it and
just hope that it works.

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Or if I had the opportunity,
would I, would I want to get

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involved and help curate it?
Absolutely.

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And I imagine a lot of teachers
are thinking, well, if you're

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going to do it, let's have some
experts in like at least

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curating it so we can get it as
optimised as possible as quickly

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as possible.
We're not wasting people's time.

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So like, so it's funny how like,
he was straight away, my mind

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was turning.
So what was that?

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Well, OK, I just accept it's
going to happen.

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So can I get involved?
I've noticed a shift in AI in

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general as well.
Like I don't think it

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necessarily means people are
ignoring the the cons to AI,

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right?
But there's definitely been a

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shift more recently as to it
being more normalised.

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And again, I said that as well,
like I said this months ago,

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where AI will be ingrained in
everything we do.

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Like when you do a Google
search, AI pops up.

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There'll be some jokes at the
start.

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Some people are not being
annoyed about it, but eventually

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that'll be completely normal and
we have to learn how and how to

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live with that and it's going to
be a point of view.

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I, I used the example of Tesco
with the self checkouts at the

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start.
Those people are very annoyed

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about it.
So we need to keep the jobs for

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these people.
It's not right.

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Completely normal.
Now no one bats an eyelid at the

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being self checkouts.
That's absolutely normal.

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But I did a post and I did
different AI versions of myself

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photo generation.
And if I did that post six

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months ago, there would be
comments from people complaining

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about the fact it's AI, right?
Not one comment this time

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complaining about the fact it
was AI because it's becoming

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more normal.
You can, we can sit and say why

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that's good or bad all we want
and that's a separate

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discussion.
But the fact I'm trying to say

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here is it's becoming more
normalised and you saw it in a

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group.
Literally I was, yeah.

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This whole conversation was
based around the fact that on a

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in a Facebook group, I saw
someone put something very blunt

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and simple.
Like what?

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Your favourite AI tools to use
in school and I was like here we

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go a year ago juicy.
I know because a year ago that

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these these posts were existing
as well and people were just

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like you just half the comments
were slating the user and I

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would never do that with kids.
It's it's unsafe or immoral or

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the environmental impact over
the comments thinking here we go

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see some juicy opinions.
Literally every single one was

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just sharing the recommendations
of what they do.

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I was like, oh, OK, this is
there's clearly a shift here in

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in culture and what we accept.
And does that mean automatically

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all the things we said before
about AI are now false that the

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ban?
No, of course not.

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But when you know it, I'm sorry
it is happening.

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So if if you really vehemently
against it, all power to you.

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But it's it's going to be.
Involved and also like it is

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just how it works.
Some of the things you're

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vehemently against will just
change and not be a thing

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anymore.
That is also true.

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Like sometimes complaints are
good because they will change

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those things and maybe those
things aren't real anymore.

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Some of the big ones I'm sure
are.

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But anyway, it's interesting.
My last question on that and

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then we'll move on is do you
think AI will ever be as good as

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you predicting the future or is
it just an ego thing?

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It'll be better.
Yeah, it'll be better.

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Oh, really?
Wow.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
AAI will reach super

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intelligence and it'll just be
better.

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Like, that's just what I think.
What happened?

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Yeah, but until it's reached
super intelligence, it won't be

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as good as you.
No, because obviously, Yeah,

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you're like the run below.
Down.

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It's like it's it's like normal
person, intelligent person.

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Yeah.
Artificial intelligence.

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Yeah.
Denim price.

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Super intelligence.
Yeah.

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That's kind of.
I had that in my head, so I'm

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glad you clarified that because
that is what I was Sorry.

229
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,120
Hayden, you're at the floor.
Yeah, no idea.

230
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,800
I was not sorry.
I missed wasn't on that list.

231
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,640
I started it.
Yeah, I was pre average person.

232
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,720
Pre average person, Yeah, yeah,
that's fair enough.

233
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,200
That's understandable.
I appreciate that.

234
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,080
Anyway, so the main point of
this episode really is to talk

235
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,160
about behaviour 'cause I feel
like it's just a juicy topic.

236
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,920
I see it coming up a lot online
in articles, a lot in Group

237
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,840
chats and also a lot of
education influences.

238
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,240
I know you hate that term but
people that make videos and

239
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:41,360
content like.
Segway.

240
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,160
Good Segway, by the way.
Oh yeah, just just, it's a new

241
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,240
way of doing a Segway, I
suppose.

242
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,440
Just start talking about the
next thing with no link at all.

243
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,360
Well, yeah, why would?
Why would you make a link

244
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,280
between those two things?
It's funny.

245
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:52,680
I found it funny.
Trying to throw me off.

246
00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:55,360
I'm the podcast host.
I'm the podcast host and I can

247
00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,320
segue.
I think what we'll find today

248
00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,640
with you leading the podcast is
that comparing a podcast is

249
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,320
actually a skill that goes under
the radar.

250
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,600
So let's see how well you do.
Yeah, definitely.

251
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:06,800
Well, let's.
Just have a conversation show.

252
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,240
That's what a podcast is, Dylan
actually.

253
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,160
Anyways, yeah, I just keep
seeing it come uploads

254
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,440
basically.
People saying Mr P in

255
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,280
particular, to be fair to him,
said a lot.

256
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,920
I think that workload at the
moment is the number one reason

257
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,280
teachers will quit.
But I do think bad behaviour and

258
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,560
poor people behaviour in schools
will overtake that and become

259
00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:26,160
the number one reason that
teachers are quit.

260
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,800
And I always find that fact
really interesting, that opinion

261
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,200
really interesting.
And again, looking on Schools

262
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,200
Week, there was a study that
showed that up to 76% of

263
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,000
teachers reported misbehaviour
interrupted their lessons in at

264
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,360
least some classes in May 2023,
which was up from 64% literally

265
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,480
a year before.
So there's clearly a rise in

266
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,640
teachers also thinking
behaviours getting worse in in

267
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,520
schools.
So I thought, let's talk about

268
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:51,880
that.
Is behaviour getting worse?

269
00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,280
There's loads of things we can
we can talk about here.

270
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,760
We can start from, I think it's
probably good to just compare

271
00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,920
what the general opinion is of
how kids behave in school now to

272
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,240
how kids behaved in school in
the past, or at least how we

273
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,160
think kids behaved in the school
in the past.

274
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,040
Because I know if I went to
someone older in my family and I

275
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,080
started having this
conversation, you know exactly

276
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,480
what I'd say as well.
It's going to be Oh well, back

277
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,200
in my day, kids bloody new out
of behaviour didn't have any of

278
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,040
this nonsense.
All that, if you didn't do as

279
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,360
you always got, came around the
end, not came around the end.

280
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,720
I know.
I know exactly what family

281
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,280
member.
Yeah.

282
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,720
Yeah, exactly.
That is like, it's so easy

283
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,040
sometimes to look back.
And, you know, we do it a lot.

284
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,640
You look back and you think, oh,
it was just so much better back

285
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:33,440
then.
It's like, OK.

286
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:34,760
Right.
Listen, rewind.

287
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,200
If teachers still now could whip
a child around the ear and throw

288
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,120
a bored rubber brick at their
head when they're misbehaving.

289
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,920
Right.
Do you think there might be

290
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,920
fewer disruptions in class?
Yeah, probably.

291
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,400
But do you know what?
I think we all accept that was a

292
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,000
good move.
I think it.

293
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,800
We have to just note the
difference between the 70s and

294
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,600
now, right?
In the 70s, a teacher would

295
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,560
light up a cigarette at the
front of the classroom.

296
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,200
It was a completely different
one.

297
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,240
Much better it was.
So I want to have a pint of beer

298
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,000
at lunchtime, come back and
light up for my afternoon lesson

299
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,440
while the kids do a bit of art,
all right?

300
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,400
It's all I want in life, The
reason I quit.

301
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,920
I was gutted when I.
Have a bloody lovely IPA at the

302
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,160
end of the day.
And I thought what?

303
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,680
I can't do that anymore.
But here's here's the overall

304
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,760
point I'm making here.
It's kind of unhelpful to do

305
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,600
that.
And I think usually it just

306
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,880
people have their own opinion
already and then use that to

307
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,000
express it.
So they'll already think kids

308
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,960
these days are up to no good and
they'll just go back in my day,

309
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,720
we had respect for it and that's
what happened.

310
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,800
And now look at them now.
It's not actually based on any

311
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,200
kind of critical thinking
whatsoever.

312
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,000
So I think it's, I do think it's
important that what is more

313
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,560
interesting to me is even just
looking at it in the scale of

314
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:48,480
like the last 10 years.
Yeah, that's more interesting to

315
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,840
me because there's not such an
obvious difference.

316
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,120
Sure, in terms of like culture
and time period.

317
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,320
What's happened in what's
happening in five years?

318
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,360
You can look at the COVID
pandemics, a big thing that

319
00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:00,400
accelerated BITS.
But like I find that more useful

320
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,040
in figuring out why.
If it feels like people who do

321
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,280
them, they're macro kind of
comparisons and they're just

322
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,200
making the point like kids these
days are useless.

323
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,320
Very often they're not actually
trying to have a conversation

324
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:14,480
because they'll be, they're just
moaning or saying how much

325
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:15,800
better they are.
Yeah, exactly that.

326
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,880
So I guess so the overall the
big question here is like this

327
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,160
is what I feel like people, are
you ever saying yes or no to?

328
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:26,520
Do you think that children have
just become worse at being able

329
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:27,600
to behave?
Yeah.

330
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,120
Do you like just do you think
that's true?

331
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,320
Do you think children are just
worse at behaving now?

332
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,680
It's.
Not just, but I do think so.

333
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:34,040
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean that so,

334
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,560
so that so there has been a
decline there.

335
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,360
Do you do you think that is
simply because I'm just trying

336
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,440
to squash the conversations that
I'd have with these these people

337
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:42,360
I'm imagining in my head right
now?

338
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,320
Do you think that's simply
because kids are just born worse

339
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:46,320
now?
They don't have to behave

340
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,320
because I feel like that is what
people are trying to say.

341
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:49,760
Yeah.
Or something's going wrong.

342
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,080
Yeah.
Kids, I was not sure this in my

343
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:53,480
day.
Yeah, probably did.

344
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,080
I didn't have the vaccination.
Oh my God, don't.

345
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,800
Honestly don't.
But people say that and I

346
00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,360
thought, I know it sounds dumb
to talk about it on this

347
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,000
podcast, but like we have to
just address it because it's

348
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,920
clearly not that.
So that which allows us to open

349
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,160
up a real conversation, which is
OK, What?

350
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,320
What is it then?
What are the factors?

351
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,000
Because statistically, behaviour
is worse.

352
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,840
Yeah, yeah, 100% behaviour is
worse.

353
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,080
It's a fact.
So this is what I mean when you

354
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,000
say behaviour is worse and then
someone asks, so are kids worse

355
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,000
behaved than before?
It's like, well, obviously like

356
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,520
like yes, of course.
What the are you on about?

357
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,880
Like clear, I'm sorry I'm giving
you some market, but what?

358
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,320
Like what do you mean?
Of course they are worse, but

359
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,400
it's like people are so scared
to say that.

360
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,000
Yeah, it kind of annoys me the
other way.

361
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,920
Do you know, I've just said how
it annoys me people in the 80s

362
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,720
saying back in mind the kids
these days are useless.

363
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,080
That annoys me.
Do you also annoys me.

364
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:43,600
Oh, don't say anything about
them though.

365
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,320
Kids can't do anything wrong.
If they do something wrong, it's

366
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,480
always just because of an
external force and it's just on

367
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,600
them and it's just a way of
communicating and actually we

368
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,360
should be really understanding.
I've always done off.

369
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,920
No, it's not Also, no, I'm
giving me edits.

370
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,880
Sorry, sorry.
I'm really sorry, but but also

371
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,880
that I'm like, that's not
helpful sometimes as well.

372
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,120
Yeah, look, I'll give you an
example really quickly just to

373
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,560
make my point.
We, I did a a reel the other day

374
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,360
and often we'll do like a meme,
like it's just like someone

375
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,720
talking and it's like when
you've run out of glue sticks,

376
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,280
it's someone crying.
Yeah, it's a meme, Yeah.

377
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,240
So here's.
Here's 1 meme I did, and I'll

378
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:16,600
get you to guess what someone
might have said.

379
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,240
OK, so the meme was when you've
explained something five times,

380
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,720
done a structured example on the
board, done some examples

381
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,360
together in their books and
given them a worksheet with some

382
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,840
scaffolding.
And then a child still says, oh,

383
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,120
I don't know what I'm doing.
And the person that in the meme

384
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,320
is going, oh, I just, I just, I
just don't know, like what what

385
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,960
am I supposed to do?
Right?

386
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,880
That was the meme and it was
sorry.

387
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,560
The caption was when a child
decides not to listen.

388
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,320
OK, OK, I know exactly what it's
going to be.

389
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,800
We'll sum it along the lines of
not all children get to decide

390
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:50,760
whether they're listening or
not.

391
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,840
There's maybe there's some Sen
going on and you've not factored

392
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,400
it in.
You're such a horrible teacher

393
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,640
that doesn't consider these
children that don't fall in the

394
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,840
normal range of behaviours.
Or normal.

395
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,880
Oh, don't say that.
Yeah, so the the comment was

396
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,960
really smarmy and was like,
considering I saw a real

397
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,280
recently about ADHD and how
you're soaked in understanding

398
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,520
about it, it makes me really
think this is very judge mental

399
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:19,560
to put this out there.
And I was I replied going ha ha,

400
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,040
yeah, nearly as judgmental as
assuming this is about a child

401
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:27,080
of ADHD, which having watched my
content before, it clearly isn't

402
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,000
like you're in a position more
than anyone to understand that

403
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,560
I'm not talking about a kid with
ADHD.

404
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:33,640
Stop.
No, I'm sorry.

405
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,640
That is so funny because like,
clearly.

406
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:36,720
Yeah, click.
Click you.

407
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,040
I was like, oh, you've you've
watched the video that proves

408
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,960
it's clearly not about it and
you still think that you what

409
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,760
are you?
And I also said the kid who

410
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,360
decides to not listen, I don't
think children of ADHD are

411
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,200
deciding anything.
So it's obviously not about kid

412
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,600
of ADHD.
But you're suggesting it's

413
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,800
impossible for a child to ever
decide not to listen.

414
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,240
And that's, that's the point I'm
making.

415
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:58,120
That's what I'm not.
Exactly.

416
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,880
When someone says no, no, no,
it's never the child's fault.

417
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,680
There's always an underlying
reason behind it.

418
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,119
Yeah.
No, there isn't.

419
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,880
Yeah, sometimes kids are just
being really annoying and badly

420
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,880
behaved and they need
consequences.

421
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,720
Yeah, it's so funny that even in
that made-up example, that's a

422
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,760
made-up child that we're all
imagining in this real to relate

423
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,280
to, they still excuse that it's
made-up child that we've told

424
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,599
you is to say we've told you in
the words this made-up child has

425
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,480
decided to behave this way.
So you by definition, they don't

426
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,319
have this.
You've just given them ADHD.

427
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,240
It's made-up.
What are you talking about?

428
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:31,600
It's a middle-aged man saying
this.

429
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,800
I find it really judgmental that
you think a 48 year old man is

430
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,800
in a year three class.
I don't.

431
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,480
I don't think that it's a meme.
You just get in the beats.

432
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,680
I'm sorry for the beats guys.
And it's just ridiculous.

433
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:44,800
I'll stop.
I'll stop the spray now.

434
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,640
But I feel really strongly about
it because, you know, it's

435
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,080
really easy on one side.
Like it.

436
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,160
Do you know what I'd say?
It's like shooting fish in a

437
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,320
barrel to moan about the old
people who say back in Mordo.

438
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,040
Everyone thinks that.
But I do think there's a group

439
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,040
of people still who listen to
what I just said and be like, Oh

440
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,320
no, that's really mean.
You can't say that.

441
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,960
Well, I can, and it's nonsense.
There are some kids that are

442
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,920
choosing to behave badly because
it's easier to.

443
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,760
Because they don't want to do
the work.

444
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,000
I was a kid sometimes I was
going to say, do you know how I

445
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,160
know that?
It's because I was that kid so

446
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,480
often.
I constantly, constantly chose

447
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,920
whether I was going to be nice
to someone because I fancied it

448
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,760
or whether I was going to be.
And you had to learn a little

449
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,520
shit genuinely.
And I was a little shit to

450
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,280
plenty of people.
And do I regret it?

451
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,120
Yeah.
Because now I know you're older,

452
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,160
but would you, would it have
been worse if a teacher didn't

453
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,800
call you out on it?
Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

454
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,640
There must be a reason you're
saying this kind of stuff.

455
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,320
It would be much worse if a kid,
much worse if A and a teacher

456
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,720
just said, oh, he must have ADHD
and now let's excuse him.

457
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,400
Everything firstly to give me a
diagnosis I don't have and then

458
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,600
also give me free rein to do
whatever I want with no

459
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,440
consequences.
That would have been the worst

460
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,920
possible thing.
What did work was I got roped

461
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,920
into the head teachers office
and absolutely bollocked.

462
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,200
And then my mum came in and told
me off and then I didn't do it

463
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,720
again and I was like, OK, yeah,
I'm pushing the boundaries a bit

464
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,680
too much here.
I can see my errors of my ways

465
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,480
here.
I'm apologise 100%.

466
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,840
That was that was good for me in
that moment.

467
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,320
And.
And would it be good for every

468
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,960
kid in that exact situation?
No.

469
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:06,640
That's the beauty of nuance.
Yeah.

470
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,640
Yeah.
And we're always thinking of,

471
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,400
you know, if we're given an
anecdote, it's it's a specific

472
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,040
person.
If we're talking generally, it

473
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,040
doesn't include everyone.
Like you just have to as a

474
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,240
reasonable person who thinks and
talks and listens to

475
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,120
conversation, you just have to
have that baseline of

476
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:21,720
understanding.
I.

477
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,920
Feel like yeah, 100% and not
just assume the worst of

478
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,480
someone.
Yeah, like do does that person

479
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,960
think that I put a reel out
there taking the Mick out of

480
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,640
Children of ADHD?
After championing as well do.

481
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,400
You think that that's what I was
doing, like, or could it

482
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,240
possibly be the other thing,
which is actually more makes way

483
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,440
more sense.
People can't wait to be

484
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,200
offended.
And it's like, oh, do you know

485
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,160
what?
You know when I say behaviour's

486
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,080
got worse, don't cower.
And oh, it's because.

487
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,240
And we're going to talk now
about why.

488
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,440
Yeah, right.
Because we can just tangibly see

489
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:52,840
it.
And I'm going to just start with

490
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,240
that.
I know, sorry this is your

491
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,160
episode, but I'm going to just
take over.

492
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,880
It is your episode.
But in that example, you just

493
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,520
said about how it worked for you
because you got hauled into the

494
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,840
headteach's office and they
called you mum, you came in, you

495
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,880
got a Rollic, and you got
consequences, right?

496
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,760
Yeah.
There's so much to unpack there,

497
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,520
which I think all contributes to
why behaviour is getting worse.

498
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,200
Because I'm just going to
summarise them now, maybe we can

499
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,200
dive into as much as you want
#1A clear behaviour policy

500
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,360
that's backed up by the people
in charge at the school and it's

501
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:20,280
consistent.
That is vital.

502
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,800
But you need that.
You need your teachers to be

503
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,960
backed up by your SLTA 100%.
And when something goes wrong,

504
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,480
SLT need to back the teachers up
and go with the teachers.

505
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,680
Will that sometimes work out
badly?

506
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,360
Sometimes, yeah, sometimes,
absolutely.

507
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,120
But the majority of time it's
going to work out well.

508
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,520
So, you know, your, your
leadership team and your school

509
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,560
staff all be on the same page.
Clear behaviour policy.

510
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,360
Second thing called your mum and
your mum was on board your

511
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,560
parents working with the school
as well in tandem.

512
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,760
That is really vital.
Third thing, clear consequences.

513
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,280
No pussyfooting around, not
worried about hurting feelings.

514
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,240
You did something wrong as a
consequence for you and you.

515
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,080
That's it right now, get over
it.

516
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,760
It's not fair.
Life's not fair.

517
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,120
And actually, in this situation,
you did something, so there's a

518
00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,280
consequence.
Yeah, it's extremely fair.

519
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,960
It's extremely fair.
This is just this.

520
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,440
So all those three things come
into it and I, and I would say

521
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,960
like if I look at why behaviour
is getting worse, I think I do

522
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,080
genuinely think all three of
them are weaker now than they

523
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,360
were before.
Yeah, rather than it just being,

524
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,040
I can't whack you with a, with a
board rubber anymore.

525
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,880
Put a dance cap on your head.
100%, yeah.

526
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,240
The types of consequences
changing, like being physically

527
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,760
smacked or actual just other
consequences, that was a good

528
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,400
change.
There's still consequences,

529
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,480
right?
And they can be rigid, the

530
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,000
consequences.
What would you say of those

531
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,120
things you mentioned is the
biggest one in terms of what

532
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:32,560
what?
What is your gut feeling?

533
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:33,960
This doesn't need to be backed
up by status.

534
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,160
This is just your opinion now.
So like just to preface that

535
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,080
because anyone gets annoyed,
what would you say your gut

536
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,040
feeling is the one that is most
causing children to think, oh I

537
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,960
can just get away with this bad
behaviour now more than ever

538
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,640
before?
But what I will say before I

539
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,960
answer this question is I do
think all three are intertwined

540
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,600
away more than I made it seem.
Sure.

541
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,480
Like, you know, what's the point
in having consistent link

542
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,920
between SRT and teachers if
consequences isn't part of that?

543
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,440
I agree.
And then calling home isn't part

544
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,040
of the consequences.
So one thing brings the chain.

545
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,040
Yeah, completely.
So I think they're all vital.

546
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,600
But if I was to look at where I
think it would break down, like

547
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,920
I, I literally mean it's really
hard for me to pick.

548
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:12,000
Actually, I had an idea and then
I thought about another reason.

549
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,200
So, you know, so here's what I'm
thinking.

550
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,720
So the reason why they're all
important, let's just break it

551
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,800
down then.
Let's just start with the whole

552
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,480
SLT and teacher link.
Because in my opinion, if that's

553
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,880
not strong, clear and
consistent, it immediately falls

554
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,200
apart.
It's almost like it's the first

555
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,600
rung.
That was my initial thought and

556
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,440
I was like, well, you know,
unless this teacher knows the

557
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,560
SRT will back them up, what's
the point in carrying on?

558
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,600
But then I thought to myself,
well, no, it's because they know

559
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,560
the consequences as well.
So consequences being clear and

560
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,320
consistent actually probably
comes before any of that.

561
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,560
The child needs to understand
what's right and wrong and what

562
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,000
will happen if they do the wrong
thing and why and, and it will

563
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,880
happen.
And that will only happen if SRT

564
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,640
and teachers are backed up by
strong links to each other,

565
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,400
where they have each other's
back and trust each other.

566
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,920
These things need to be
implemented in a school for

567
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,200
anything to work.
It doesn't matter how strong you

568
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,120
bond to our parents.
If a child comes into school and

569
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,720
knows there are no consequences
and teachers are infighting,

570
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:10,520
doesn't matter how strongly I my
mum was really hot on me.

571
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:11,920
Really.
And your mum was hot on you.

572
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,720
You're saying you still went to
school and we're annoying you

573
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,760
still went to school and be like
push the boundaries.

574
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,320
Kids will always push the
boundaries.

575
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,080
So I think that's really, really
important.

576
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,800
You have to have a leadership
and staff team on the same page,

577
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,160
really clear coherent message
that back each other up with

578
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,600
clear consequences that are
always follow.

579
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,320
True.
I think back to when I was in

580
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,200
geography.
I had a teacher who was an

581
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,680
absolutely lovely bloke in
geography but his warning system

582
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,320
was just made-up and kids would
walk all over him.

583
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,600
And I remember being in the
classroom thinking he, you know,

584
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,920
he was South African and say
look, you do one more, you get

585
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,400
your name on the board like
that.

586
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,200
And if you get your name on the
board three times then I'd have

587
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,360
to put a tick next to your name.
And it was just going on and on

588
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:52,760
and on and on and on and on.
And it was like I could see as a

589
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,960
12 year old that the person over
there ruined the lesson because

590
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,240
he was trying to be funny to his
mate, not because he had any

591
00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:59,720
additional needs.
Because he was trying to be

592
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,760
funny and he knew he could get
away with it.

593
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,640
The ticks and the he got 15
warnings before even the teacher

594
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,880
went to get someone else.
But he knew he could push it.

595
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,120
He really didn't care.
There was no clear consistent

596
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:11,400
boundaries.
No one was backing up that

597
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:12,600
teacher.
To be fair to the teacher as

598
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:17,200
well, that has to come first.
And if you've if you haven't got

599
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,200
that, the kids will run wild.
Doesn't matter how much the the

600
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,680
parents are giving, the kids
will find it and.

601
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,840
Kids push boundaries all the
time.

602
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,600
Yeah.
So like, you know, I'd say those

603
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,320
two together, but I don't want
to diminish the role of the

604
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,320
parent because I think that's
vital.

605
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:31,560
Yeah, for sure.
Obviously, we talked about

606
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,360
parents, you know, a lot last
week.

607
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:35,120
Go back and listen to the last
week's episode if you want to

608
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:36,920
hear our thoughts on just
parenting and how that is.

609
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,000
What would you?
What would you?

610
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,600
Teach that though, like I think
I.

611
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,360
Agree.
Everything you said I agree

612
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,880
with, but I still have this
thing in my head and I think a

613
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,640
lot of people share this thought
and maybe I've just got this

614
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,240
because I hear so many people
say it.

615
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,520
Where I do feel like outside
culture outside of the school,

616
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,720
which is mostly realistically
going to be parents, right, and

617
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:54,800
parents, people in parenting
roles.

618
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,440
The culture outside of school, I
feel like has way too much power

619
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,400
over the school that can just
completely annihilate all of

620
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,680
these rules and things we have
in place.

621
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,000
Do you think that do you think?
The culture outside of the

622
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,280
school and the parents views and
whether we're on board or not,

623
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,840
are you saying basically, yeah,
that directly affects the

624
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,040
cohesion of the school and the
SLT and the teachers?

625
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,080
Yeah.
So even though you agree that's

626
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,880
the most important thing, again,
actually we're looking at the

627
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,000
links between them.
It's the parents that are

628
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,760
causing that division.
Yeah.

629
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:23,960
And like you said, because it is
a triangle.

630
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,120
Genuinely, it is the perfect
thing where I'm like 1 take out

631
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:27,840
any one of those things that
does genuinely break.

632
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,360
But I think I think one of those
things that has maybe a bit too

633
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,640
much impact.
What do you mean?

634
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,520
Okay, So what I mean is I
genuinely think and hopefully

635
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,520
people listening can either
agree or not that that's tend to

636
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:41,680
do one of those tend to do one
of them.

637
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,160
I was gonna say agree and I
thought I better be PC but say

638
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,680
not for some reason.
Hopefully you agree.

639
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,280
It's all right, We've gone.
Past PC in this episode, right?

640
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,880
You're swearing.
But I think there are a lot of

641
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,760
teachers out there and I've
definitely been this person in

642
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,680
my career at points who are
afraid to make the objectively

643
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,720
right decision in terms of how
the consequences for a child,

644
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,120
but literally based on the
external factors outside of the

645
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:04,280
school and how I know they'll
react.

646
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,760
Most of the time that's parents.
I don't think news outlets can

647
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,280
help.
I don't think media helps in

648
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,040
general.
I feel like the demonization of

649
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,640
teachers is a deep rooted thing
in our society in terms of we

650
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,160
just, it makes we make teachers
feel like they're just bottom

651
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,280
rung and actually, no, you
should be walked all over.

652
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,280
And my kids said this so
obviously.

653
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,560
That's what happened, yeah,
exactly right.

654
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,720
And because.
Because it's this weird like

655
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,040
problem where parents obviously,
and I don't want anyone to not

656
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,640
think this, obviously have the
final say over their own child

657
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,640
in terms of their safety and
what's happened.

658
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,360
Like they know their child
better.

659
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,160
But there is like some nuance in
terms of I don't want to take

660
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,960
away the idea that a parent can
can raise a safeguarding issue,

661
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,080
But all the school said that's
fine.

662
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,000
So no, you should.
Parents should definitely have

663
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,920
that power to be able to do that
and override the school in every

664
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,080
capacity because it's their
child.

665
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,960
But there are situations where
that gets abused now where it's

666
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,080
like teachers are afraid to do
the right thing because that

667
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,000
parent's particularly loud and
bossy and they don't want to say

668
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,040
anything because that parent
will literally cause A cause

669
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,560
such a ruckus that they could
lose their job.

670
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,120
Can I give an example then?
So what you're like, I can

671
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,040
imagine being in a situation
where I'm like, do you know what

672
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,080
I actually know?
You leave the classroom right

673
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,840
now, go and sit in the head
teachers office and finish your

674
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,920
work there because you're
distracting the class.

675
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:13,640
Get out.
Kid gets upset.

676
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,360
No.
You can get upset all you want.

677
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,400
I've asked you to stop.
You didn't get out right now.

678
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,640
That's the school consequence.
The school.

679
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,920
Consequence this is.
Clearly what happens, you leave

680
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,680
this room and do your work
because the school have decided

681
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,080
that the 32 children in this
classroom are more important

682
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,440
than the one when you're clearly
just deciding to do something

683
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:30,480
like this.
No, there's not.

684
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,120
Before anyone in this made-up
situation, before anyone says,

685
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,160
oh, that person's got
additional, they don't OK, in

686
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,240
this situation, they're choosing
to be annoying.

687
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,800
They're continuing to make bad
decisions.

688
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,520
There's a consequence.
They leave the room, is what

689
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,840
you're saying, that you notice
more and more that teachers and

690
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,280
leaders, etcetera are thinking,
oh, gosh, yeah, that that is

691
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,280
what we should do, but it's not
worth the backlash from this

692
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,320
parent.
So do you know what?

693
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,200
Just keep them in there.
Yeah, that is one that.

694
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,640
Is one of the things I'm saying.
And on top of that very linked

695
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,040
point, like exclusions like so
the children actually being sent

696
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,080
home from school happens way
less frequently now.

697
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,240
It's always well, there's a big.
Thing in the news recently,

698
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,440
right?
Exactly right about literally

699
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,640
that, which is don't send
children home for exclusion,

700
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,240
keep them in school.
All well and good, all well and

701
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,800
good.
I understand the I genuinely

702
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,800
understand the pros.
Where are they going?

703
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,800
Who's funding to look after
them?

704
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,840
Where does that come from?
Like what?

705
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,200
What like.
And are you saying that actually

706
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,360
there's not a, you know, most of
the time when there's an

707
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,480
exclusion, it's a safety thing
and actually they should not be

708
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,960
in the building.
That's part of an exclusion.

709
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,960
Sometimes part of the reason.
So there has to be a balance.

710
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,360
Yeah, exactly.
And there's just some layer.

711
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:35,760
I feel like my brain's going all
over the place.

712
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,040
But even thinking back, right,
even when I was at school, I, I

713
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,400
still remember there was those
few kids who were terribly

714
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,800
behaved.
And when they got excluded or

715
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,760
suspended or whatever, they go
don't care.

716
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,680
My mom doesn't care anyway.
My mom, my mom thinks the

717
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,640
school's stupid.
My mom will back me up to the

718
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,360
empty ground.
I remember thinking that kid

719
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,160
just does what they want because
their mom just comes in and

720
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,720
shouts like dad comes in and
shouts louder.

721
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,560
And it's like, and I feel like
that's just got worse basically

722
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,040
in terms of maybe even just the
respect for the profession, I

723
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,160
don't know, but just the ability
to overwrite override rather,

724
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,800
you know, these, these things
that we're saying are sacred in

725
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,120
terms of we need consistent,
stringent policies in terms of

726
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,080
behaviour and consequences in
the school, obviously with

727
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,320
leeway for, for children in
different circumstances, but

728
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,880
generalising here.
We need, it needs to be strict

729
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,880
and consistent.
When that gets overridden by

730
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,400
parents, it kind of just
undermines the entire thing.

731
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,800
And I feel like behaviour is now
that I think that's a huge cause

732
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,360
of why behaviour is getting
worse, because parents just

733
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,720
don't respect the school system.
So we've said a lot about.

734
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,600
Like tangible things you can do
about it because and I think

735
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,480
it's really hard to make parents
care, right?

736
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,000
But I guess a big part of what
we're saying is when that

737
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,240
happens with parents, we need
schools to really, really keep

738
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,160
their backbone and keep that in,
you know, what I say and do in

739
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,200
this school goes, yeah, and do
whether it's going to kick off a

740
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,480
fuss or not.
That's the point I'm making.

741
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,720
I suppose as soon as the school
and the SLT in particular say,

742
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,720
do you know what, it's just
easier for me to pack this

743
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,280
parent and this sorry teacher.
Can you say sorry or, you know,

744
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,600
or can you, can you just just
don't do that to him anymore?

745
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,000
As soon as that starts
happening, you know, I guess

746
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,320
that that's when it can spiral
and get worse and worse, worse,

747
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,160
worse, worse.
And it happens.

748
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,200
It happens a lot because then
it's backing up the parent and

749
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,120
the parent thinks they've won.
Do you think that parent will

750
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,400
stop?
Yeah, no.

751
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,560
If one wants another one and
another one, another one.

752
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,440
So I just, I find it, I find it
really interesting and I yeah, I

753
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,560
struggled to pick one.
I really do struggle to pick

754
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,360
one.
But in general, I think all

755
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,600
three of those things are weaker
than before.

756
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,040
And you can say, oh, it started
with the parents, or it started

757
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,040
with the consequences, or it
started with restorative justice

758
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,960
or it started with leadership
that, you know, being detached

759
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,600
from the classroom.
You could look at anywhere in

760
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,840
this cycle and and argue as to
where it started.

761
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,200
It's kind of irrelevant, really,
because I think every single one

762
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,400
of them is being eroded, which
is in turn making the whole

763
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,560
thing harder.
Yeah, for sure.

764
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,840
A lot, a lot of data shows that
since COVID had a big decline

765
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,200
since COVID time.
Do you think that's a

766
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,320
coincidence or do you think
something to something about

767
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,520
COVID has amplified all of these
things or some of these things?

768
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,760
I think for sure I'd be.
Interesting to see what happens

769
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,240
like pretty much from now
onwards as well, where, you

770
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,680
know, especially in primary
school, you'll get to the point

771
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,400
very soon where the children in
year 6 actually had no

772
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,000
disruption.
Yeah, and the parents didn't.

773
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,240
Go through that exactly, yeah.
Exactly that.

774
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,960
I do think it's insane to
suggest that it wouldn't have

775
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,840
any kind of effect like, and
even just looking at the data

776
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,920
shows that it did.
It's like what a coincidence

777
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,400
when when we were locked in the
house for a year and a half,

778
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,520
behaviour got worse.
Of course it did Yeah, yeah,

779
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,880
yeah, of course it did with
there was no did children who

780
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,240
were young, socialised less, had
less interaction with their

781
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,280
peers, had less interaction with
school people.

782
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,600
One of the big thing thing in
the in the school readiness

783
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,080
document we went through last
week was it's an important

784
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,680
milestone for children to
understand that they can be

785
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,800
looked after and cared for by
other adults.

786
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:48,680
That's an important learning
step.

787
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,840
That's an important thing for a
child to learn before they go to

788
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,520
school.
That didn't happen for a lot of

789
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,080
kids, no.
So who's this guy telling me

790
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,160
what to do?
I ran around the house freely

791
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,000
for years and years because, you
know, not not even blame the

792
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,000
parents here, but like, if
you're, if you're, you know,

793
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,000
trying to work from home, yeah.
And you've got a three-year old.

794
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,400
I tell you right now, if I was
working rhyme with a three-year

795
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,400
old, that three-year old would
be doing stuff I would

796
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,080
absolutely not be letting him do
if it was just me one to one

797
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,320
looking after him all the time.
Of course, it's not true.

798
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,160
I assume there are limitations
to what we can achieve and do.

799
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,680
So I think it's it's to me, it's
very obvious.

800
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,400
It's very, very obvious that
that had an effect.

801
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,560
I don't know about you.
Yeah, for sure.

802
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,320
Like.
Literally directly on the on the

803
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,440
kids and again, just having back
to that parent culture.

804
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,040
I do think there was a bit of a
rise after that of people,

805
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,640
parents almost feeling like
they're waking up to the broken

806
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,000
system and being like, hang on a
minute.

807
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,920
I've had my kid at home for this
time.

808
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,400
I've I've had way more insights
into school maybe than I'd ever

809
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,960
have before in a non COVID
situation.

810
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,840
And my opinions on school have
changed now.

811
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,360
And for some people, it was
quite positive.

812
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,960
They were like, Oh my God, the
teachers, I don't know how you

813
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:44,640
do this.
This is crazy.

814
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,080
I can't even look at like, this
is madness.

815
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,720
You've got 32 of these.
And for other parents it was the

816
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,680
opposite.
And they're saying actually I, I

817
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,560
think the school system's
rubbish like, like you're my kid

818
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,560
cleaning these loads of these
things that I now really am, you

819
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,480
know, alerted to.
Do you think that's ever

820
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,560
justified?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

821
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:01,840
Like I'm not.
Going to sit here and pretend I

822
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,360
haven't spent 170 episodes
saying the system of education

823
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,200
is completely broken.
From the teacher's perspective,

824
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,520
it is.
It's completely broken.

825
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,240
And a lot of parents were wised
up, wisened up to that.

826
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,520
And unfortunately one of the
side effects of that is in some

827
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,600
situations that manifested,
manifested as cool.

828
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,240
I don't care about school.
I think the system's ridiculous.

829
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,840
Don't you dare.
You have no authority over my

830
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,280
child.
You're down here now in my head,

831
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,640
teachers and education staff in
general, my kid can do what they

832
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,640
want.
Don't you dare tell them what to

833
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,000
do.
Do I think one of the?

834
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,800
Trickiest things with this whole
situation as well is like, I

835
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,360
think what you're saying is
absolutely true.

836
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,600
And if you boil it down, you I
think sometimes parents forget

837
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,720
that it's a very, very different
environment and atmosphere,

838
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,440
being in a clash and then being
at home.

839
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,600
And I think sometimes when you
hear about what parents say

840
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,560
about their children, it'll be
things like, oh, you know, at

841
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,880
home, I, I give him this because
it really helps him in this

842
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,040
situation.
Or he behaves in that way that

843
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,640
and I can react and maybe you
can do that.

844
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,000
It's like just sometimes I just
can't because whether, whether I

845
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,720
know that child is your absolute
world, I get it.

846
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,040
But in my classroom, I wish this
wasn't the case, but he's 1 of

847
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,600
33 and I and I physically can't
give that level of 1 to 1

848
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,320
interaction with that child
because I've got 32 other

849
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:11,760
parents who also would like me
to do that.

850
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,960
And I need to make decisions
based on the whole and the

851
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,719
group.
And that's where I've said

852
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,560
before and voiced my
frustrations about education,

853
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,080
that some children get left
behind.

854
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,000
So when a parent of one of the
children who I think is getting

855
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,920
left behind, complain and moan
about it, I'm like, yeah, you're

856
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,840
right.
But I can't do anything because

857
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,800
if I did, if I moved the dial to
that, someone else would miss

858
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,880
out.
And I have to as A and as a

859
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,400
system, we have to make a
decision based on the needs of

860
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,080
the children as to who's going
to get more of my attention or

861
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,480
not.
Is that good?

862
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:44,960
No.
Is it worth getting angry and

863
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,760
undermining my behaviour
strategies because of it?

864
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,320
Also no.
Yeah, that's the thing.

865
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:49,360
Like it doesn't.
Mean we have to.

866
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,480
Go to that.
We can both be frustrated by

867
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,800
something.
I can really understand your

868
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,800
frustrations, but you can't then
complain and moan about the

869
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,360
school because something isn't
exactly how you want it now.

870
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,560
Of course it's not.
Go and get a private one to one

871
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,280
tutor to homeschool your kid all
week then.

872
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:04,520
Oh no, I can't afford that.
Exactly.

873
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,720
There you go.
But neither can we.

874
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,160
That's what we've got to work
with.

875
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,280
So it frustrates me.
No, it's interesting and I.

876
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,760
Think to summarise everything
we've said so far.

877
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,240
I think it's all really about
external perspectives of school

878
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:19,200
and how that's maybe changed
over the years and how that

879
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,800
might have impacted behaviour.
And I think there's lots of

880
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,280
really good valid reasons we've
talked about.

881
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,040
But I do think there's a couple
of other sort of valid points to

882
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,720
talk about.
Maybe you don't have to go into

883
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:31,040
too much into depth with these
ones, but I'll leave it open to

884
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,040
you.
So mental health, we've talked

885
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,040
about mental health for children
before and how it's declined

886
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,960
that that's something that is
different and, and do you think

887
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,520
that?
That was different 1st and

888
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,880
therefore behaviours getting
worse, yeah.

889
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:43,240
You think?
That came first.

890
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,600
That makes sense.
I think to me right now, I don't

891
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,920
know or could.
I think there are reasons in

892
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,440
tandem.
Yeah, it isn't very much in

893
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,480
tandem.
But I do think that there there

894
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,200
are maybe other reasons that
we're not having to discuss

895
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,480
right now that meant that mental
health for children is is

896
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,960
different to how it used to be.
It's declined on average.

897
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,680
And I do think that that will
have an impact on behaviour.

898
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,000
I think I have an impact on how
you behave as a human being.

899
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,240
And sometimes that behaviour is
negative.

900
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,040
Well, not even negative, but.
In in the environment of the

901
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,200
classroom, the way it presents
itself is perceived as negative.

902
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,160
And and I I think, yeah, you're
right.

903
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,560
Like do we need to update,
modernise what we see as bad

904
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:15,600
behaviour?
For sure.

905
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,520
I don't think I'm I am slightly
worried this conversation is

906
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:19,840
turning into the school's always
right.

907
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,040
Get over it.
That's why I keep trying to go

908
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,680
to like, I understand what
parents mean in the end of the

909
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,120
day.
No, I agree.

910
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Same with mental health.
Like if, if they're, you know,

911
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,560
in the same way we would never
say some of ADHD is choosing not

912
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,640
to listen in the same way we
would never villainize them for

913
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,880
that.
Yeah, with with mental health,

914
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,480
which is much harder to see and
isn't being diagnosed remotely

915
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,480
at the speed that needs to be
done.

916
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,520
I agree.
You know, are there times where,

917
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,800
you know, as a school system
will brush over the mental

918
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,760
health aspect and just be like,
sort yourself out And it's like,

919
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,600
oh, actually, no, there are
underlying features.

920
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,800
And.
And so, you know, I'm just

921
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,160
worried when we set up this
thing of just saying, oh, all

922
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,120
behaviours, communication did it
there and we basically took the

923
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,200
piss out of that.
Yeah, I'm like, I don't want

924
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,040
people to think that I don't
think that doesn't exist.

925
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,680
No, no, sure.
So it's complicated.

926
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,600
It's funny because my.
The ending of this point was

927
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,000
talking about mental health.
Is that because there's such a

928
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,240
systemic failure in terms of no
funding to address these things?

929
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,360
That's why I think that there's
an issue because children are

930
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:11,840
not getting the help they need.
Yeah.

931
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,040
So so behaviour is presenting in
a different way, like we should

932
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,120
be helping these children, but
there's there's nothing more to

933
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,240
it.
I'm not even saying, yeah, so

934
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,800
there should be more
consequences for these kids for

935
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,800
having worse mental health.
That was a crazy thing to say

936
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,000
that we we should be helping
these kids and they're not

937
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,120
getting the help they need.
Like there's a crisis and we're

938
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,760
not reacting to it as a system.
But that's that's a fundamental

939
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,200
issue.
I think that that is a factor

940
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,320
amongst many.
So another one for me, one we, I

941
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,880
won't go in too much depth
because we talked about Lois,

942
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,040
but social, social media
culture, you think about the

943
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,120
Andrew Tate, we talked about
that in by ages ago with like

944
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,040
the rise of big influencers who
having a huge impacts on, on the

945
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,840
culture of children.
Like, and a part of that can

946
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,680
sometimes be, yeah, screw the
system, man, let's behave how we

947
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,280
want.
And OK, part of that is being a

948
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,520
kid, I'm sure.
But social media is, is

949
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,400
amplified.
There's nothing like social

950
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,000
media in, in the history in
terms of the way it's like

951
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,320
gotten into children's brains.
Like it is, it is anything you

952
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,280
can think of in the past that
had a huge impact on how kids

953
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,640
behave way bigger, way more
amplified.

954
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,520
So I think social media is is
another huge one, absolutely.

955
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,600
And I guess this goes back to
him saying, you know, when the

956
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,400
conversation is, has behaviour
got worse And it's like, it

957
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,040
feels like the initial reaction
is either just like, yeah, the

958
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,040
kids these days are ridiculous.
It's like, mate, there's 74

959
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,360
reasons why it's got worse.
Yeah.

960
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,000
It's not got worse just because
they're inherently bad.

961
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,120
Yeah, it's got worse for lots of
external factors.

962
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,320
And in the same way someone else
goes, yes, but but it's no one's

963
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:28,600
fault.
And we should just, you know,

964
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,840
let them do what they need to
do.

965
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,360
And that's also ridiculous.
Like, we have to have really,

966
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,640
really nuanced in like,
conversations about this and

967
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,400
dive into to reasons why and
understand things on a tiny

968
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,480
granular level and understand
that there's differences between

969
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,280
lots of individual children.
But we can still see the trends.

970
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,800
Has behaviour got worse?
Of course it has.

971
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Why has it got worse?

972
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,440
For 58 different reasons, Yeah.
Can we solve it overnight?

973
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:52,520
Well, clearly not.
No.

974
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,040
But are there solutions?
To these things, yes, that's the

975
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,440
honest truth.
Like everything we've said so

976
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,360
far, there are solutions to
these things.

977
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,120
I'm not saying that that that
all of them are grounded in like

978
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:02,560
immediate reality.
Some of them are more

979
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,120
ideological than others.
Like, can we just make culture

980
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,640
change to not demonise teachers?
Well, no, but that would be a

981
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,800
solution to that one thing, and
we can't do it overnight.

982
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,040
Exactly.
Can't even if we.

983
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,880
Pick one thing out.
Of these 57, a lot of them can't

984
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,360
be just like overnight, OK,
done, fixed.

985
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,680
You're not going to see tangible
effects of whatever you

986
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,160
introduce quickly.
And I'll make a wider point

987
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,200
about society in general.
I do think that unless you

988
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,320
because of the culture we live
in of fast news and 24 hour news

989
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,120
cycles and seeing things and
then forgetting about them

990
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,440
immediately.
I really, really think it's

991
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,920
harder than ever to have a long
term effect on something that's

992
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,400
positive.
Because all you'll see in the

993
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,320
meantime is that it cost loads
to do and there's not an impact

994
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:40,920
tomorrow.
So people will start saying,

995
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,680
well that can go, we need to
save money somewhere that's

996
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,760
pointless waste of money.
Some things take longer than a

997
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,520
parliament to do.
Some things take longer than a

998
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,320
cycle of power for the people
deciding.

999
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,480
And there are certain things
like education, health, things

1000
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,120
that are pillars to society that
I think should be really just

1001
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,000
stripped back from this power
cycle.

1002
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,000
Let the buffoons talk on
television and and get one up on

1003
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,560
each other and, and chat
nonsense.

1004
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:04,960
And then when they're in power,
say one thing.

1005
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,040
When they're out of power, say
another thing and all that crap.

1006
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,520
Let them do their popularity
contest, whatever.

1007
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:10,800
And they can talk about certain
things.

1008
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,960
But the fundamental, you know,
root of our Society of what we

1009
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,760
think about for long term
growth.

1010
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,360
Has to be separate.
And has to be led by.

1011
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,840
Experts, yeah, and there's no
there's no separation of that at

1012
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,800
the minute and because of that,
we'll continue to have things

1013
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,920
like this where experts say no,
I don't think that's actually a

1014
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,840
good idea because of XYZ oh, but
it sounds good on a little press

1015
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,520
release we've got that we can
say tomorrow and then if it

1016
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,160
doesn't work out well, at least
we've got the little news thing

1017
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,200
for the one day yeah, yeah who
cares if you've got the.

1018
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,040
News thing for the one day, is
it fundamentally a good thing?

1019
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,600
I agree.
It has to be about that.

1020
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,880
Will it take longer than five
years to show impact?

1021
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:43,280
Yes.
Cool.

1022
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:43,960
Don't do it then.
Yeah.

1023
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,000
Yeah.
It's because everything's the

1024
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:46,600
everything is dictated by that
cycle.

1025
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,360
You're absolutely right.
Some things for, I mean the

1026
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,040
education existing itself shows
that some things take 17 or 18

1027
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:52,880
years.
Do you know what I mean, to

1028
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,720
manifest or maybe that log is
obviously the first for years.

1029
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:55,600
No, no.
It's cool, but you go.

1030
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:56,880
To university, but yeah, of
course, yeah.

1031
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:57,800
And you?
Keep going.

1032
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,200
But like, clearly that process
takes a long time of, you know,

1033
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,000
becoming educated or whatever.
So like it's just such an

1034
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,000
imbalance, isn't it?
My last point on this and we

1035
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,440
kind of addressed it.
So we will skim over it.

1036
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,520
It's just systemic pressures in
general on on the system of

1037
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,520
education and just attendance
targets things, things that

1038
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,040
maybe didn't happen before that
do happen now or are more

1039
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,640
amplified now that put pressure
on schools to respond to

1040
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,080
behaviours in different ways.
That's just another thing that I

1041
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,120
think over time has changed and
it might be impacting why kids

1042
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,680
are behave in certain ways
because schools can't do the

1043
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,760
same things they used to do or
they have different pressures

1044
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,800
impacting their decisions.
Turns out it's complicated.

1045
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,640
It's complicated and it and it's
not us.

1046
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,440
Saying it used to be better,
it's not a saying.

1047
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,680
It's now worse than ever in
terms of the structures and

1048
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,000
things that are in place.
That it's a really good thing

1049
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,640
that we care for kids more than
ever before.

1050
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,880
It's a very good thing that we
understand the importance of

1051
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,080
mental health.
It's amazing that we have a

1052
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,400
deeper understanding about the
additional needs of children

1053
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,920
and, and, and understand what
their needs might be to stop

1054
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,240
them having meltdowns.
Just do you know what?

1055
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,640
Back in my day, you wouldn't be
allowed to go for a little calm

1056
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,720
down, walk around the corridors.
Well, that was awful for that

1057
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:01,600
kid.
Thank God we have that now for

1058
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,520
this child who has that specific
need and they can go out the

1059
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,160
room and calm down.
Fantastic that we know that I

1060
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,240
do.
You know what I loved more?

1061
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,120
Honestly, it was probably the
top thing in in teaching that I

1062
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,040
just loved.
There's like a humanity level

1063
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,920
kind of thing was when you're in
a room with with 32 eight-year

1064
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,600
olds and they just get that
someone's different and they

1065
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,640
just understand it.
And there's none of this thing

1066
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:23,720
that you seem to get as an
adult.

1067
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,560
He got this thing.
Why don't I get that thing?

1068
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,440
It it didn't happen in the
classroom, there'd be there'd be

1069
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,840
a child there who even sometimes
would shout out and wouldn't get

1070
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,520
the same response from me as if
someone else shouted out.

1071
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,480
And they all knew that and were
fine with it because they knew

1072
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,800
just whether it was inherently
or also just from me modelling

1073
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,680
it, that there are different
bars and things and expectations

1074
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,480
for different people based on
them individually.

1075
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:52,520
And they did not care.
And it didn't ruin my behaviour

1076
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,200
management.
They knew that this person

1077
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,800
sometimes can't control that
they shout out.

1078
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,120
They knew that that person in
the back didn't like talking in

1079
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,400
front of crowds.
So when I said to someone, no,

1080
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:05,600
come on, come to the front, do
it.

1081
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,280
And I made them do it and they
were a bit nervous about it, but

1082
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,960
they come up the front, they did
it and they felt good about

1083
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,160
themselves.
When I didn't then pester the

1084
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,440
other person to do it.
They didn't go.

1085
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,840
Oh, you pestered me.
Yeah, they.

1086
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,400
Understood that.
And I could say to them, yeah,

1087
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:22,600
you know, you just need you
needed a bit of encouragement

1088
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,320
and me just and you felt better.
Now that'll make that person

1089
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,360
feel 10 times worse.
It everything I'm doing is for

1090
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,520
the outcome of you as an
individual.

1091
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,760
And I guess that's my point.
I think, you know, we just need

1092
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,000
a bit more trust sometimes when
people are in front of your kids

1093
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,440
And and I think sometimes it's
parents projecting onto children

1094
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,560
what's fair and what's not.
Kids kind of seem to get it.

1095
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,560
They genuinely in general, I
always found kids seem to get

1096
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,200
it.
So, you know, tap it more trust

1097
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:47,200
in what's going on in the
classroom.

1098
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,200
I agree.
Now you've said it, it's.

1099
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:49,440
Made me realise that's
absolutely true.

1100
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,640
But every, every experience I've
had, the classes have been more

1101
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,840
and more and more and more
understanding of other children

1102
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,120
with different needs in the in
the class like lovely.

1103
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,160
They're just lovely human beings
like crazy.

1104
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,520
So I think yeah, we'll finish
the episode in a minute.

1105
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,600
So the the last thing I want to
do really is just bring this all

1106
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,520
down to reality in terms of, you
know, if you're a teacher and

1107
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,720
you're listening to this, what's
the point of this conversation?

1108
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:10,200
Not really.
Turn off.

1109
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,440
Yeah, no really for.
Me like the the meta point right

1110
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,400
now is that Dylan's already said
it.

1111
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:17,520
We're not going to solve this
overnight.

1112
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,160
And you're as an individual
teacher, you are not going to

1113
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,480
solve this issue.
And you know, I think back to

1114
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,480
our Q&A, someone said, oh, I'm
struggling with some behaviours.

1115
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,320
Is it, do I just accept it or do
I, should I keep trying?

1116
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,400
Yeah, we should keep trying.
We should all keep trying as a

1117
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,240
collective and individually.
But as a teacher, there is only

1118
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:34,680
so much you can do.
You can't actually go up against

1119
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,200
the media and battle how they
perceive teachers for 10 years

1120
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,000
and completely intercept
people's minds on that.

1121
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,760
You know how they now think of
teachers.

1122
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:42,840
Do you know what you can do?
What's that?

1123
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,360
You can go to net mums, set up
an anonymous account and start

1124
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,120
fighting back and all the people
rage bait against teachers and

1125
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:49,160
you know what else you can do?
That's.

1126
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,560
A pretty good one.
You can also have consistent

1127
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,480
routines and expectations like
you mentioned earlier.

1128
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:54,600
That's a really big one.
Having consistency in your

1129
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,880
classroom, routine expectations,
that's one little thing that you

1130
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,920
can do to help manage school.
That's the next thing.

1131
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,600
Up the whole school.
If you feel like you work in a

1132
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,800
school where you've or different
teachers have different ways of

1133
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,760
dealing with certain behaviours,
you should address that.

1134
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:08,600
You should actually bring that
out.

1135
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:09,840
That would be a really good
thing.

1136
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,040
If you if you, if you're a bit
afraid sometimes of maybe

1137
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,920
putting your head above the
parapet, this is the one to do

1138
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,560
it with.
Say it's bad for our kids that

1139
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,080
we're not really consistent with
behaviour and policies across

1140
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:20,560
this school.
When one kid, when a kid goes

1141
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,040
through this school, they should
know what the boundaries are and

1142
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,320
what the what the rules are all
the way through that is going to

1143
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,840
help with behaviour management
in your class.

1144
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,600
And then the next thing for me,
and I'm going to need you to

1145
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,720
talk about this because you did
this phenomenally in your career

1146
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:35,640
and I'll never say that again.
Is, is the is, is how you treat

1147
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,600
the children.
It sounds really condescending,

1148
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,720
but the positive relationships
that you actually build with the

1149
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,000
children on a one to one.
Yeah, look.

1150
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,720
I I get it because you see
things online and it is a joke

1151
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:48,960
and it's hilarious.
And so did you try building a

1152
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,080
relationship with them?
Yes, of course, I didn't build a

1153
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:53,320
relationship with every single
kid.

1154
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,320
What I did was just gave the
opportunity for children to feel

1155
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,280
welcomed, safe and enjoy in my
classroom.

1156
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,320
That's all we're saying here.
If you're not at least trying to

1157
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,920
do that, then why are you
shocked when kids don't like

1158
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,400
being in the room?
Like you have to at least try to

1159
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,640
do it.
And a big thing, what I always

1160
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,840
say to people is it's OK to not
succeed in something, but you,

1161
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,880
you can't not try.
And that, that, that just goes

1162
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:15,960
through absolutely everything in
life.

1163
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,240
And I say it to my kids in my
class, and I say it to my fellow

1164
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:20,040
colleagues as well.
You know, my colleagues are

1165
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,680
saying, oh, we just hate being
in my classroom.

1166
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,040
Say, have you, have you tried to
make him not hate it?

1167
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,120
And they might look me like, of
course I have, you idiot.

1168
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,280
And for some people, I'd never
even ask that question because

1169
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,280
it's insulting.
But you'll be surprised how

1170
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,560
many, how many times they'll
just go no.

1171
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,880
And that that teacher maybe had
a preconception of that kid,

1172
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:37,560
right?
Sure.

1173
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,400
I'm just, all I'm saying is it
is our job to try and do these

1174
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,000
things.
And the vast majority of

1175
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,320
teachers are trying to do it all
the time.

1176
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,680
And if you try to do it and it
doesn't work, what I'm not

1177
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,040
saying is, well, just try
harder.

1178
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:47,720
Nonsense.
Yeah.

1179
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,320
Yeah, just just.
But you have to try.

1180
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,800
You have to.
Try and the the first like sort

1181
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,960
of in the same line of thinking
I was trying to reflect on my

1182
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,840
career as well.
The first thing I ever put

1183
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,640
effort into myself and I was
actively doing it to to be

1184
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:59,680
better at it.
I wasn't.

1185
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,320
It wasn't just natural, was
showing humility to the kids.

1186
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,240
Yeah, like I actively thought to
myself, I am in certain

1187
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,120
situations not going to just
respond and be shouting and

1188
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:10,160
embarrassed because something
went wrong.

1189
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,240
Whether I am going to model to
the children how to take a

1190
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:15,800
little bit of a joke and then
immediately get back into the

1191
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,400
boundary zone of like, OK, but
we're doing this.

1192
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:20,080
I'm not going to go off crate
off the wall and then we're all

1193
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,520
having a laugh for 20 minutes.
But I am just going to model to

1194
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,440
them.
Sometimes.

1195
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,320
Sometimes depends what it was,
but I will model to them because

1196
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,520
there are some kids in the class
who I no need to see this

1197
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,920
because as soon as they get
called out on something, it, it

1198
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,360
becomes a huge thing and
escalates.

1199
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,160
And do you know what they need
to learn how to behave in

1200
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:37,760
certain situations, how to
respond and react.

1201
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,040
And I would actually go out my
way to model a bit of humility

1202
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,480
to the kids.
That's one thing you can do in

1203
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,280
terms of building relationships.
They kids like you more when you

1204
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,120
act like a human and when you
act like them.

1205
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,640
OK so so like when even saying
that I I I agree with what

1206
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,760
you're saying, but even saying
that that sentence triggered me

1207
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,480
slightly.
Go on when you said kids will

1208
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,320
like you more if you do this
Like who cares?

1209
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,840
Why do you care if the kids like
you?

1210
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,120
And I see it's a lot.
And yeah, people, they're right.

1211
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:02,840
It's not your job to be the
friends of the kid.

1212
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,840
It's not your job to make every
kid like you and stuff like

1213
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:10,600
that.
No, but is it bad?

1214
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,520
Like, I'm not, I'm not.
You know, it's always framed and

1215
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,120
like, yeah, you loser.
Why do you want kids to be

1216
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,320
friends of you?
It's like, Oh my God.

1217
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,840
Do you think I craved the, the,
the friendship of a nine year

1218
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:19,600
old?
Of course not.

1219
00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:21,160
Do you know what?
Though I don't respect anyone I

1220
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,480
don't like I.
Think maybe they get.

1221
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,640
Conflated.
Like it's an easy word to use.

1222
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,360
It's very broad.
OK, if you want to like, if

1223
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,200
people want to be nitpicky about
the word like you're choosing,

1224
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,880
the bit of like that makes it
sound weird.

1225
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:32,800
Oh, do you need kids to like
you?

1226
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,400
No, I want kids.
I want kids to want to be in the

1227
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:35,960
classroom and I don't want to
be.

1228
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,200
So I don't want to be in a room
with someone I don't like.

1229
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,320
I don't want to be in a room
with someone I don't respect.

1230
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:41,920
I just don't want to.
Like, why would the kids want

1231
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,320
to?
What do we expect them to be

1232
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,520
different now You have to no.
Does it mean they'll all

1233
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:46,720
respect?
You and like you all the time.

1234
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,720
Also no, but I'll try my best
to.

1235
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:51,640
Make an environment where they
think I like being in the room

1236
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,240
with this.
Yeah, and maybe the reason

1237
00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:54,720
isn't.
Just I need a mate who's nine.

1238
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:56,040
Yeah, that's not that.
Yeah.

1239
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:57,280
No, the reason is never the
reason.

1240
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,960
The reason is because then
you'll probably be more likely

1241
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,040
to be interested and learn the
things and actually behave quite

1242
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,280
well.
Because when I was younger,

1243
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,160
guess what?
I behaved really well for the

1244
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:05,480
teachers that I respected and
liked.

1245
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,720
And funnily enough, I was a
little shit for the ones that I

1246
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:10,080
didn't really like and didn't
respect.

1247
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:13,240
There is a tangible link between
liking and respecting someone

1248
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:15,280
and then actually making better
decisions about how you behave.

1249
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,560
And, and hilariously, the end of
all this learning stuff, I

1250
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,960
learned more stuff with the
teachers I liked because I was

1251
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,200
listening, because I respected
with them.

1252
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,640
There's just a chain of effects.
And I think as a teacher, you're

1253
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,160
putting on an act all the time
because you know this, you know

1254
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,360
that we're kind of, it's like
we're just tricking the kids

1255
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:30,520
into learning stuff all the
time.

1256
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,960
Yeah, in a crude way, we are.
And one of those things is, OK,

1257
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:35,160
be nice to them then.
But hey, then I did that to

1258
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:35,520
this.
Kid.

1259
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,560
And they still let me down.
OK, that's on them.

1260
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:38,680
Yeah, Cool.
That's on them.

1261
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:39,920
Just one strategy.
Exactly.

1262
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,040
It's on them.
As well, I remember from my old

1263
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,400
career, because I think about my
career in general, behaviour

1264
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,960
management was strong for me.
Yeah.

1265
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,680
So when I'm saying this, it's
not me saying it.

1266
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,600
And then I'm saying it from a
point of view that it worked a

1267
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,200
lot of the time.
But let me tell you something

1268
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,720
right now, it didn't work a lot
of the time as well.

1269
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:57,360
And I've spoken about before how
when it didn't work, I always

1270
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,680
felt like a bit of a fraud.
So what do I do now?

1271
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:00,960
I've tried the things I think
work.

1272
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,080
I've tried being.
Nice, right?

1273
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:03,840
So like when someone.
Hears a saying that and they're

1274
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,240
like well I've tried that you
idiots can you give me some

1275
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:07,280
extra help?
Yeah.

1276
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,440
Do you know what, there comes a
point where you're like, you

1277
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,200
follow the school rules, you're
really consistent if they keep

1278
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,000
doing it.
And even I've had before a

1279
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,920
parents back you up, I've had
all the trifecta working

1280
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:23,040
perfectly and the kid is still
still continuing to behave that

1281
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,000
way.
I'm like, OK, I'm trying.

1282
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,280
Yep, Yep.
You know what?

1283
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,920
There was a kid at the end of
the year who still couldn't

1284
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,240
write his name properly.
I kept trying.

1285
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,800
I kept, I didn't go.
I've shown you 4 times how to

1286
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,040
write your name.
Why can't you do it now?

1287
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,760
I'll give up.
I don't like you anymore.

1288
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,320
No, same thing.
Try and have the same attitude.

1289
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,920
It's not easy.
It's not easy because it's, you

1290
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,640
know, with education it's very
much like, it does feel like

1291
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,640
it's more part of like what your
role is etcetera.

1292
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,520
But with behaviour, it's the
same thing.

1293
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,560
Like you, you will still get a
kid just like who can't write

1294
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:55,880
their name after three months
properly.

1295
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,040
After three months, still can't
behave properly.

1296
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,560
You still have to keep trying.
I agree.

1297
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,240
And there'll be some.
Kids you make progress with.

1298
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:03,520
Some kids you make rapid
progress with.

1299
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,800
Some kids you don't make as much
progress with at all, or none.

1300
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,640
Sometimes it feels like and it's
tough when it happens.

1301
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,600
Because I, like you said, I've
had years where you have a class

1302
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,240
and the dynamics just different.
Every, everyone knows that

1303
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:15,920
dynamics of every class are
different.

1304
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,280
And I've had like, you know,
even like 6-7, eight years into

1305
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,000
my career where I thought, I
feel like I've stepped backwards

1306
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,440
in behaviour management.
I obviously haven't, I obviously

1307
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:26,920
haven't stepped back in
behaviour management.

1308
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,520
And it's easy for teachers to
think sometimes, what have I

1309
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,520
done?
Nothing, nothing.

1310
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,960
There's 32 kids, there's 33
people in this room.

1311
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,800
You're one of them.
There's only so much you can

1312
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,840
control, so when that happens,
don't necessarily think it's

1313
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,880
because of you.
There's just different dynamic

1314
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,520
in the room.
It's hardly, and it could be.

1315
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:45,880
Are we still?
Trying to adapt and we still,

1316
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,960
like we said, still trying to
implement some of these things,

1317
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,200
but it does get to a point
where, OK, it's out of your

1318
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:50,840
control.
I agree.

1319
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,280
So it is behaviour getting
worse.

1320
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:55,080
Well, yeah, obviously the stats
said so straight away.

1321
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,760
That's almost undeniable.
Behaviour is getting worse.

1322
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,840
Why is it getting worse?
Is it a simple answer?

1323
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,520
No, that's the whole point in
this episode.

1324
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,720
So next time someone says, Oh,
yeah, it's because of this and

1325
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:06,480
they've given you an answer in
12 seconds, they probably

1326
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,400
haven't thought really much
about it.

1327
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,160
And you probably they should
just take a pinch of salt and

1328
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:11,960
tell them to listen to this
podcast instead, right.

1329
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,480
Which they can do.
You can share it with a friend

1330
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,160
exactly like we love shares.
How do they do that?

1331
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,200
I, I I don't actually know.
Click on share, Copy the share

1332
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:19,080
button somewhere.
Yeah.

1333
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,400
They can also rate it ratings.
Really.

1334
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,360
We're going past I think it went
past 300 on Spotify.

1335
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,320
That'd be good, considering.
We have thousands of listeners

1336
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:26,560
you think are behind, but you
know what?

1337
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,960
I'm not going to go on about the
ratio anymore because I just

1338
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,920
like a like flogging a dead cash
cow.

1339
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,560
Can't believe it.
No throwback to their episode.

1340
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:35,760
Guys, Go and watch our cold
catalogue.

1341
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,080
We've got nearly 200 episodes.
We keep doing 2 a week.

1342
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:40,040
We'll see you next time.
See you.