Ep 179: Q&A: Subject Leader Pressure, Constructive Criticism & Politics In School

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Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teaching

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name's

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Hayden, and we're back with
another question and answer

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episode from you, our lovely
listeners.

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Down in the description to this
episode, you can join the

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WhatsApp community where you get
the link for priority access to

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asking us questions.
All that good stuff, Hayden.

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First question, why is there a
pen on your ear?

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Is there actually there is a pen
on your ear?

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You never know.
There's a pen you're not even

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teaching.
Anymore I need a pen.

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I was getting annoyed yesterday
because I couldn't find a pen.

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I'm old school and even though
I'm working like my my PC is

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over there.
I do all my work on APC.

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I've got 2 two monitors.
Like I understand like I, I'm

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very tech savvy yeah.
But if anyone needs me to write

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anything down or work anything
out or do something or take

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notes, I grab my notebook and I
write things down.

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Actually I need to, I mean I.
Don't think.

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I don't think that's a bad
thing.

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I don't think that means you're
not techie.

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It's just no, it's a desired way
of doing it.

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A pen going back in the air.
Yeah, yeah.

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It's comfortable there, isn't
it?

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It's comfortable.
Do you like it?

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And.
Honestly when I see a pen loose

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like you.
Did that.

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You generally didn't.
Think it was automatic.

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I literally put.
It back now thinking I just put

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it out anyway.
Use it for your iPad.

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That'd be good, right?
Should we dive in?

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Go on.
Cool.

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First question from Q&A from an
anonymous submission here.

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If you could say one thing
uncensored and unfiltered to

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every parent you ever had, what
would it be?

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Probably you're who's a
something like.

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Oh, Dylan, something like that.
I thought we were going to stop

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this uncensored.
You can no take this seriously.

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OK, I'm joking.
Obviously.

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I would say if I wasn't worried
about offending people and

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saying the right thing, I would.
I would say to everyone, pull

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your finger out when it comes to
supporting your kid.

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Yeah, that's what I'd say.
Genuinely, that's what I'd say.

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And for those people who are
putting their finger out, they

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won't be offended because
they'll just be like I am.

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I know that's important.
Brilliant.

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Nice one at the end of the
conversation.

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But for the parents who aren't,
I'd just be like, please just do

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though.
And I don't mean, I don't mean

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do things you physically can't
do, I don't mean enrol them in

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clubs that cost £300 you don't
have every month.

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That's not what I'm talking
about, that there is no excuse

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to not do some things with your
kid.

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And even if you personally can't
do them, well at least go along

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with the school's policy of
they've been set.

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A little bit of something to
practise.

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That's 10 minutes a week.
Do that.

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Like I'm not being funny.
The amount of times in our

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career where our school was
really good with homework, that

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homework for our school was
reading three times a week.

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Yeah.
And practising times tables for

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10 minutes a week.
And we bumped up to 20 minutes

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sometimes, especially when it
was around the time where I had

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to basically learn the times
tables a bit more.

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So in total, it was less than an
hour a week for a primary school

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kid, as it should be.
It should be minimal, but it

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wasn't much, right?
Yeah.

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The amount of children who
didn't do anything at home ever,

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in my opinion, was insane.
Yeah.

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And I, as a as a parent now
myself, maybe it's because I'm a

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teacher as well.
Maybe someone will come along

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and say, no, you're wrong.
I I cannot fathom not meeting

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that minimum requirement of
genuinely reading with your kid

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to me is not even homework that
I don't need the school to tell

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me to do that.
But if some people do listen to

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the school and do it and and
practising your like your number

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bonds and your basic number
facts for for 10 minutes a week,

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just do it.
Do you think it should be more

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acceptable in our culture for
educators and trained

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professionals to be able to call
that out in in that setting to

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parents and make more of a thing
of it and say, this is bad, You

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should be doing this rather than
just saying, Oh well, everyone's

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in different positions, do what
you can.

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Yeah, because I think I agree
with that.

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I think it should be because I
think what ends up happening is

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what happens now, which is the
kids end up having to bearing

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the brunt of it, especially when
they're like 7 or 8 years old,

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right?
Because again, think about what

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normally happens if homework
isn't completed or staying at

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lunchtime then and do it well.
Now I'm punishing that child and

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taking away their play time for
something which me personally is

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the responsibility of the parent
to make sure you're natural

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child does.
Yeah, especially when they're

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that young.
That's exactly what I mean.

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I'm not talking about secondary
school here where I think I, I

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can Remember Me personally
getting more independence and it

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was not down to my mum if I did
my homework or not.

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When I was 13.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
But when I'm seven, yeah, like,

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like it kind of is.
And.

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And yeah, what what worries me
is that because we're scared to

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sometimes insult parents or hurt
their feelings, even though it's

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not insulting or bad what we're
saying here, because we're

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scared to do that.
Sometimes it can just be like,

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oh, we'll send a gentle reminder
out, but if you don't do it,

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you're staying in there at break
time, then the parents off the

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hook as well.
Yeah.

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And I just think that that winds
me up slightly because I hate

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punishing children.
And I personally never, you

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know, a lot, a lot of teachers
would keep them in at break time

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to read if they hadn't done.
They're reading that week.

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Yeah.
I never did that.

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No, I rarely did.
I tried not to as much as

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possible because I also felt I
just didn't really go against

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it.
Kind of went against what I

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thought was the right thing.
Yeah, But I do think we said it

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before, I don't want to be a
broken record, but do you think

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like we've lost all abilities to
have any credibility really in

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in like what we say as a
profession in terms of just

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taking it seriously to the point
where it's like you just can't

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say anything anymore because
someone will be like, well,

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actually you who, who are you to
tell this parent how to, how to

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parent that child?
Well, actually I'm asking for an

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hour a week of stuff.
I'm actually not really telling

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them how to parent at all.
I'm asking for honestly 1% of

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that week to do this one thing
that's going to be enormously

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beneficial because I'm the
professional.

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I don't know what I'm talking
about and I'm telling you to do

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this.
Who are you to say that?

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Oh, the professional.
Teacher Yeah, yeah.

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I just think we've gone a little
bit too far in terms of being

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super.
We're just going to be super

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cautious of everyone's feelings
and we couldn't possibly say

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anything that anyone might
interpret as offensive to do.

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You know what?
It's, it's not really offensive,

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is it?
Just to say you're not really

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doing the job of a parent if
you're not just doing the

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absolute bare minimum.
We wouldn't say the same thing,

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right?
If they weren't feeding their

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child, no one would be afraid to
say, oh, that's bad parenting.

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It's like, yeah, OK, yeah, OK,
cool.

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You die if you didn't do that.
So yeah, I know what you.

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Mean, but as an analogy.
Health advice as a doctor?

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Yeah.
It's like, OK, probably you

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should be doing more exercise.
Who are you to tell me I should

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be doing more exercise?
The health professional who

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understands the benefits of
that.

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Yeah.
You don't have to do it.

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Obviously, you don't have to.
Exactly.

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Obviously you don't have to.
Not going to go but.

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We shouldn't be afraid to be
able to say, oh, I'm just trying

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to hold you a bit accountable
here, parent.

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There's this one thing you
should be doing, which is

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reading your kid a couple times
a week.

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I don't even honestly in that
point.

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I don't even really care about
the excuses.

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I'm just telling you that you
really should know.

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This is really important.
At that point, it is.

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I can't be the parent.
You just need to do what you

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want.
But I feel like we're too afraid

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to even say that.
Sometimes, sometimes, not

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everywhere.
I do think there is a culture of

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reading where it's more
acceptable to say you need to

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read, yeah, you need to do this
like in primary school.

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I've not worked in a school
where reading isn't top of the

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agenda, and I've not actually
seen a lot of chasing out of

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parents, etcetera.
But I do think there's other

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stuff where, you know, the line
obviously comes down of how

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obviously good or bad something
is.

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Yeah, I think maths often comes
into that.

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But the very, very bare bones of
maths are for 10 minutes a week

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at home just.
I agree, but as a professional,

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I certainly in my own experience
of talking to parents, I

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certainly certainly had a namby
pamby approach to when a pet

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when it's clearly in front of
me, right.

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This parent just needs to be
with their kid and they're just

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not.
I'd be very reluctant to just

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say that to them because I felt
like, oh, but be careful of what

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I say.
Really.

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I wish I could go back and be
like, no, that parent just

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needed to hear you say, well,
actually this is like, you just

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need to do more.
But they just hate reading.

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Oh, OK, OK, fair enough.
But we but this is going to

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stunt their growth in every way
so that you can't.

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Yeah, but they just, they just
hate it.

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They literally won't read.
And then we have a tantrum all

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night.
Listen, I get the barrier and

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I'm not going to be the parent
of your child, but I need you to

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understand how unbelievably
important it is that you

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continue to try and can and get
there like you.

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You can't just then give up
exactly that.

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Like I wouldn't have said that
stuff before.

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I would have been like, oh, OK,
yeah, fair enough that you do

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what you can.
That's the difference, isn't it?

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I think that's really important
distinction to make because

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there'll be lots of people
listening still who go, guys, I

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am completely on board with you.
But I still can't read with my

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son who just hates it so much.
And it's not worth the absolute

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disruption to our home life
because of it.

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But also, I think it's fair then
to say what you said, which is,

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but we've got to keep trying
somehow.

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We've got to try and look at a
different way and.

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And we need to not just give up
completely because we both

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understand in this situation how
important this is.

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So as the professional, I'm
going to continue to give you

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this advice, which is sound
advice.

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You're going to interpret it as
you will as the parent.

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There will obviously be some
situations where you don't read

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that night forever.
Reason.

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Yeah.
But I can't pretend to you that

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it's better to not read.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
I I from my point of view from

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an.
Educational standpoint.

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Yeah, you.
Can take into account

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everything.
Else yeah, you've done you've

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done what I'm trying to say
about justice there, which is

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good.
Hopefully that come across my 1

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so I'm sorry.
I didn't actually ask you your

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one, this is AQ.
Oh, Q&A.

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Sorry, I forgot you're the A,
I'm the Q I'm so sorry.

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I won't do anything.
My my one would be that your

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child lies all the time.
Honestly like the amount of

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parents over the years are like
my child doesn't like yes they

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do.
No child everyone lies by

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default.
Honest to God.

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Like we learn not to lie as we
get older when we realise we get

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caught out.
Everyone lies.

228
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,000
Your kids lying to you all the
time.

229
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,120
You think you think they're not?
They are I promise you.

230
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:38,520
Please just listen to me as a
teacher.

231
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,720
Your kid as if I told you your
kids lied.

232
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,679
They lied.
At different rates, kids, they

233
00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,760
do and that that seems to come
into play of like oh, but she's

234
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,360
not like that.
It's like, well, if I'm telling

235
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,520
you, yeah, that this happened as
as an adult professional where

236
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,320
it's actually easier for me to
not have this conversation with.

237
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,360
You by the way, I'm.
Only having this conversation

238
00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:58,360
with you because I feel like I
need to.

239
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,080
And I saw her throw the chair.
So if she's telling you she

240
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,680
didn't throw the chair and I'm
telling you I saw her throw the

241
00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:06,920
chair, I do have some news for
you.

242
00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,400
It's not me that's lying.
I'm lying because I love to

243
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,560
spread cakes and I threw the
chair.

244
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,120
It was me.
No, obviously in that situation,

245
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,600
of course, even if you don't
believe it, like as the parent

246
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,960
or you can't fathom it, your
time to have your worldview

247
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,560
changed because your precious
little bundle of joy has lied.

248
00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:26,000
Yeah, guess what?
They lie and they all do.

249
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:26,880
Crack on.
Right?

250
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,360
Next question, Go on.
I am currently a subject lead in

251
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,200
history, geography and diary for
my current school.

252
00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:36,640
When I was a young upstart, I
was really willing to get stuck

253
00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,000
in as a subject lead doing
history and geography.

254
00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,240
TLR not included, of course.
TLR, teaching, learning,

255
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,880
responsibility, pay extra money.
What's that when it comes to

256
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,480
leading subjects for your own
free time?

257
00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,520
I did all the jobs such as the
learning walks, the book looks,

258
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,000
visited secondary schools and
other schools to create

259
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,000
dialogue, develop the
curriculum, etcetera.

260
00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:58,720
Nowadays, I don't really feel
like doing it because in my last

261
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,400
school it felt like I never got
taken seriously.

262
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,480
Also, they want me to look at
attainment and target children.

263
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,520
Is this right?
I am not getting paid any extra

264
00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,880
and I have got attainment
progress to look at with my own

265
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,040
class.
I'm just not as passionate about

266
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,040
it anymore.
Wow.

267
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,920
How common do you think that is?
But I very, yeah, very common.

268
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,360
I was even even reading that.
I was like, Oh yeah, I did that

269
00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,400
genuinely.
I was like, Oh yeah, I, I had

270
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:27,280
that.
I had that same sort of

271
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,400
experience of like in terms of
what young, passionate into a

272
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,560
subject, dive straight in,
realised that really I was just

273
00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:35,280
taking a box for them and didn't
actually get taken that

274
00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,320
seriously by some people in some
situations.

275
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:38,280
And you go, oh, that's kind of
annoying.

276
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:39,400
But you can just do the
groundwork.

277
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,200
I put my heart and soul into
that and I got nothing extra for

278
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,480
it.
And and then sort of later on

279
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,040
your career, you kind of get
asked to do it again or in a

280
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:46,320
different way.
And you sort of think, oh, last,

281
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,160
last time I did that, it was
completely, it realistically

282
00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,480
ended up being a complete waste
of my time.

283
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,440
It didn't progress my career.
I didn't get paid for it.

284
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,520
No one even took it seriously.
There was literally no point me

285
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,240
doing it other than ticking a
box for SLT to say someone leads

286
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,000
this subject.
Yeah.

287
00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,720
Oh, so not leads, coordinates.
That's how we get away with it.

288
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,480
And that's what people have
literally said to me.

289
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:02,920
Dead seriously with a dead face.
Yeah.

290
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,920
Explain what you mean by that.
So, so for example, TLR state in

291
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,920
the contract, like if you look
at what a TLR actually is, a lot

292
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,280
of people think it's just for
mastering English or core

293
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,240
subjects.
And even then you don't always

294
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:15,960
get it in a primary school for
leading it right?

295
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:18,440
Luckily for us we got TLRS for
leading maths.

296
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:19,360
I wouldn't have done it
otherwise.

297
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,560
I'm just perfectly honest.
I wouldn't because of an extra

298
00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,200
job.
What was me for wanting to be

299
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,200
paid for the job and doing?
But when you look at the other

300
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,760
subjects and you think about
primary school, obviously

301
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,920
there's loads other subjects.
We teach music, geography,

302
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,840
history, art, DT.
You keep going.

303
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:36,960
You even have like leaders of
other things like trips.

304
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,880
You did a lot of stuff on trips
and yeah, and but you have to do

305
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,200
risk assessments.
Not kind of stuff.

306
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,880
But the point, the point I'm
making here is there's loads of

307
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,240
stuff to lead and be involved
with.

308
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,840
But then as soon as you are
labelled as the coordinator of a

309
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,600
subject, right?
And as soon as officially the

310
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,160
buck doesn't stop with you in
terms of offset, come in and

311
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,160
start looking at things and
things aren't quite right.

312
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,080
You can justify not paying
someone to TLR, right?

313
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,000
So that's why you'll often see
things like I'm the music

314
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,360
coordinator, I'm the geography
coordinator, I'm the history

315
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,600
coordinator.
People might say lead, but not

316
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,280
they might be labelled as lead.
But if you look at the actual

317
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,840
contract, but Oh no, actually
you're just a coordinator.

318
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,120
Yeah, the responsibility doesn't
lie of you ultimately, so we

319
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,960
don't have to pay for.
It but you have to do all of the

320
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,560
work and basically active you
are leading and quite often even

321
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,440
have the buck lie with you
because obviously if you're

322
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,040
doing the job, obviously you're
the person to go to when things.

323
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:25,320
Are wrong.
Yeah, it's just pretending.

324
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,240
So here when they're saying
things like I've got to look at

325
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,320
attainment and target children,
is that right?

326
00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:32,920
But honestly, probably not.
If you're not being held

327
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,560
responsible for it, why are you
putting in all that extra effort

328
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,520
to try and target those people
and make it make a move,

329
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,360
Especially when you put your own
class to look after, which

330
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,320
you're going to be judged on
anyway when it comes to your

331
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:44,200
appraisal.
Yeah.

332
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,160
So I I think this is a symptom
of the system being broken,

333
00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,720
right?
Is that different to you to to

334
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,760
like the idea of someone being a
a subject lead and looking at

335
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:54,800
attainment and targeting
children?

336
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,120
Do you think that job is
pointless in general?

337
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,160
No cool, no I.
Want to differentiate that.

338
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,480
So you don't think that the role
is pointless, but it's not bad

339
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,960
that this person thinks, I don't
really think it's right for me

340
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,760
to do this because precisely
they're not in the right

341
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,280
environment.
They're not being paid or they

342
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,040
don't got like basically they're
doing the job for nothing.

343
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,000
Yeah.
So it's so in that the answer to

344
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,440
that question is no, it's not
right to do that.

345
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:13,960
Yeah.
It's not not right to do that in

346
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,160
general.
Of course, there's there's a

347
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,960
there's a positive to someone
looking at attainment and

348
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:17,760
targeting children.
Yeah.

349
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,160
But it probably should be
someone who's at least getting

350
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,360
paid for their time to do that.
Right, exactly.

351
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,720
We look at the example here and
I'll just have it back to maths

352
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,480
and English leads, right?
Part of our jobs as mass leads

353
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,120
was sometimes looking at data
and seeing targets and being

354
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,560
involved in meetings with year
groups that maybe they're saying

355
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,600
we're going to run this kind of
intervention because this is the

356
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,680
data and we'll be there to say
yes, that sounds good or

357
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:38,320
actually have you thought about
doing this, etc.

358
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,480
That was part of our job.
We've got a TLR to do it and

359
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:42,800
we've got time out of class to
do it.

360
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,120
You need both of those things
because I needed them to do the

361
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,600
job because I'm still expected
alongside that to be running a

362
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,000
class and doing the job of a
class teacher.

363
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,680
So you need time and money to
lead effectively.

364
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,960
Now the issue comes when this is
so widespread in primary

365
00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,800
schools, there were people
listening to this shouting now

366
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,880
going, yes, this is me.
How often is it where you're

367
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,560
kind of lumped with something
because the deal is, well, we

368
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,040
all need something here.
Well, we all do it here

369
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,560
actually.
So we all have to do something.

370
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,440
Everyone's got a subject, do we?
Because I've worked in schools

371
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,640
like that where I LED maths and
I got got paid in time out to do

372
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,200
it and the person who lead lead
it, maybe I shouldn't definitely

373
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,400
shouldn't have led English.
The person who led PE for

374
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,520
example, had to sort out the
entire pupil premium budget and

375
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,960
exactly where the money's going
to go for sports premium and do

376
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,120
do things at the weekend and go
and sort out, you know, trips

377
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,440
with children to go to different
schools or secondary schools to

378
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,360
be involved in tournaments,
etcetera.

379
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,520
And they would just coordinate.
So they didn't get any money.

380
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:36,720
Out.
Yeah.

381
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,320
And basically, that's what's
happening with this guy here.

382
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,640
He's not getting paid any extra.
He's got his own class to look

383
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:41,360
at, right?
Yeah.

384
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,000
He doesn't need to be having
this extra responsibility whilst

385
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,880
also probably simultaneously
knowing that, like you said, the

386
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,160
maths lead in their school
probably is getting, maybe not,

387
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,160
but there might be a situation
where someone else is getting

388
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,400
paid to do a little bit of extra
work.

389
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,840
He's been told to do extra work
but not getting paid.

390
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,040
And also like you said,
ultimately this is another thing

391
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,000
I feel like just gets leftover
and you kind of glossed over it

392
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,360
as well.
You can get paid to do a job and

393
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,120
also still expect to be given
time to do it.

394
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,840
Yeah, I think a lot of people
are are told to believe, is that

395
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,200
why you're getting paid?
You've got to do it in your own

396
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,360
time now or some people say,
well, you're getting time out.

397
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,040
You don't need to get paid as if
they can't possibly exist.

398
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,520
Whereas in most in, in reality,
really what should happen is,

399
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,840
yeah, your, your expertise is so
great.

400
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,880
We want you to do this extra
responsibility, this extra

401
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:20,200
thing.
So we're going to give you extra

402
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,640
money because it's an extra
responsibility and it's going to

403
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,720
just more things to do.
And also we're going to give you

404
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,680
time out so you can fulfil that
part of the job correctly

405
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,920
without impacting the other job
that's already full time for

406
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,080
you.
Doesn't make any sense like to

407
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,360
me to not give both.
And that, but The thing is here

408
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,320
because, because it's the
language we use as well of

409
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,480
saying give you time out to do
it, give you extra time to do

410
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,600
it, etcetera.
Yeah, if we if we reframe that

411
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,560
as keep your working hours the
same, yeah, I think that's more

412
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,000
important as well, because when
people say give you time out,

413
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,520
it's like you feel like that's a
transaction and you're gaining

414
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,040
from it.
Yeah, actually what's happening

415
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,480
is we're just maintaining your
work hours.

416
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,120
That should be part of the deal,
I think.

417
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,800
And it's it's the same thing.
But I think that semantically is

418
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,760
important, that when I was
looking for a job like that, I

419
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,600
think part of the, you know, if
I was kind of negotiating with

420
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,040
with, with the leader as to, OK,
I'll take this on.

421
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,880
Will my work hours be impacted?
Like, will my workload be

422
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:10,720
increased?
Yeah.

423
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,680
Will I have to do extra hours of
work every week because of this?

424
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,960
If the answer is yes, then I
might say, well, OK, I actually

425
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,560
don't want to do that.
I want to stay within this now.

426
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,720
And if you've got a promotion at
work, in an office job in a 37

427
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,480
1/2 hour work week and you got a
promotion doing something else

428
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,960
and you got more money because
of it, it doesn't automatically

429
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,520
lead to then you do 50 hours a
week.

430
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can.
Just there's no end.

431
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,640
Yeah, exactly.
It's like, obviously that's not

432
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,120
how things work.
The roles you do give you more

433
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,960
money per hour for doing that
role or more responsibility to

434
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,240
have.
That's why head teachers are

435
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:42,280
more than teachers.
Yeah.

436
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,720
Not that they work 10 times as.
Much double the hours in school.

437
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,360
Yeah, because double the pay.
Exactly.

438
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:48,760
Yeah.
And somebody say, well, some of

439
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,600
them do work more.
Yeah, but it's not okay.

440
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,160
That's true.
Some teachers work more.

441
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,160
I know some teachers who work
more than heads.

442
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,760
I I know that in general, heads
work more and it's really,

443
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,160
really stressful, but they
absolutely should be more than

444
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,680
compensated for that.
It shouldn't just scale up with

445
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,080
time spent on the job.
That's not how.

446
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,640
That's not how jobs work.
Yeah.

447
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:05,800
Yeah.
So that that's why this

448
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,560
frustrates me so.
Basically, no, totally.

449
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:10,720
So just finishing off this
question then just so this hope

450
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,960
this person feels satisfied.
What what do you sort of just

451
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,720
overall, what do you say to this
person?

452
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,119
They had a few questions really
like is it right that they

453
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:18,160
should be doing all sexual
stuff?

454
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,319
Is it bad that they're they're
basically feeling like I don't

455
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,839
really want to do this anymore,
Like just off summary, what

456
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:23,920
would you say to this person
now?

457
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:29,200
I'd say to them, literally look
at the actual contract that's

458
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,040
involved in your school because
obviously I know that trust can

459
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,880
kind of do what they want in
these situations, which is

460
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,760
horrendous really.
But look at the situation.

461
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,920
Can you, can you say no to it?
Probably you can just say no to

462
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,280
it.
Don't you have to kind of

463
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,200
transcend that awkwardness of
just like, oh, what everyone

464
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:44,880
else has said, yes.
And I'm the only one saying no,

465
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,080
that's on everyone else, mate.
That's not on you.

466
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,160
Like you need to decide your own
fate here if you can.

467
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,400
And it's absolutely not right.
And you should look at the very,

468
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,160
very strict stipulations of
coordination of a subject and

469
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,400
why that's different to leading.
Because if it's not going to be

470
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,040
treated differently, but the pay
is going to be treated

471
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,680
differently, then that's
massively skewed in favour of

472
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:04,800
the people in power in your
school.

473
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,720
And that's massively skewed
against you as a teacher doing

474
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,920
that job.
So there has to be pay off if

475
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,800
you're going to be only a
coordinator and you're not going

476
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,720
to be given a TLR for leading.
It has to be reasonable.

477
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,680
Yeah.
And you have to decide between

478
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,720
you and your, your team and the
people who are in charge of you,

479
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,640
what's reasonable for you.
And you've got just as much say,

480
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,280
if not more say about what's
reasonable than your employers

481
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,760
do.
Your employers can't turn around

482
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,320
and say, do you know it's
reasonable because everyone else

483
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:30,600
is doing it.
So you have to do an extra 5

484
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,680
hours a week.
You can turn around and say

485
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,120
that's not reasonable for me
because I'm not getting remotely

486
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:36,920
compensated for it.
You've just increased my

487
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,200
workload massively.
The only way I will cope with

488
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,480
this is if I do five hours less
planning and marking.

489
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,160
And I'm sure you won't be happy
with that.

490
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:44,960
So what's your?
Yeah, good.

491
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:46,480
I like that.
Good, good, good answer.

492
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,320
Next question.
If you worked at Hogwarts, what

493
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,920
a what a switch, eh?
If you worked at Hogwarts,

494
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,960
what's which subject would you
teach?

495
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,160
Defence against the Dark
Inspectors.

496
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,640
Oh yeah, yeah, I think you'd be
good at that.

497
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,880
Yeah, I actually think that that
would.

498
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,400
Just just teaching the kids,
well, the teachers, the kids had

499
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,040
to say no every time when they
go.

500
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,800
Yeah, yeah, I like that one.
Yeah, mine probably be like

501
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,680
potions, you know, I felt like
making.

502
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,880
Potential silly incontations in
this class.

503
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,320
Alchemy, Alchemy.
That's my one.

504
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,000
Give me.
Is that not just potions?

505
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,280
Yeah, No, no, Alchemy is turning
things into gold, isn't it?

506
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:23,680
Is it?
Yeah, Alchemy.

507
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,600
Alchemy is like the the literal
meaning of alchemy is you can

508
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,560
look it up.
I feel that you need the literal

509
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,880
meaning of alchemy is, is the
idea of like magically turning

510
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,000
something into gold, isn't it?
Or creating value out of

511
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,200
something that hasn't got value.
So I'd be like, come on kids,

512
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,800
everyone bring in some wood and
we're all going to do some

513
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,560
alchemy today and we're going.
To turn it into gold.

514
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:41,640
Do you know this?
I hope I'm right.

515
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,440
No, you're right.
Alchemy is the ancient

516
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,520
philosophical and proto
scientific, obviously not real

517
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,280
tradition focused on the
transmutation of base metals

518
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:51,160
into gold.
Yeah.

519
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:52,240
Yeah.
The discovery of the

520
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,160
Philosopher's Stone and the
creation of the Elixir of Life

521
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,480
for immortality.
Yeah, something because that's

522
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,600
quite linked.
Something because I knew Harry

523
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,280
Potter drew stuff anyway.
Yeah, So alchemy.

524
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:01,720
That's the one.
You make me money, baby.

525
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:03,440
Get all the kids.
They will get this.

526
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,200
This class is all getting rich.
That's all you care.

527
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,080
About isn't it exactly right, I
teach the kids.

528
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:08,120
All you should care about is
getting.

529
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,640
Alchemy, baby.
Money.

530
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,880
Let's let's be our.
I've always fought Harry Potter

531
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,040
and Hogwarts and stuff was was
pretty weird.

532
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,800
Like, why?
Why?

533
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,200
Like they're Wizards.
There's a lot of things in the

534
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:21,560
story where it's like, no, we
can't.

535
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,080
We can't possibly just just
transform yourself just like

536
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,000
like, Oh no, there's a troll in
the dungeon.

537
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,480
Bing, I'm not in the dungeon
anymore.

538
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,960
I'm a wizard.
Yeah, yeah, like, like it's just

539
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,760
it's just so weird.
It's like so many plot just

540
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,080
wouldn't take me If I was a
wizard, I'd be like, what?

541
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,320
Sorry, why are we scared of
that?

542
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,000
I'm just going to turn it into a
cat.

543
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,320
Yeah, have you heard of the
words avada cadavra?

544
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,280
Because apparently when I say
that and wiggle this little

545
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,760
thing in front of me, everyone
dies.

546
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,760
So I don't really know why I'm
afraid of stuff.

547
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,840
You you're actually you've
picked one of the cursed ones.

548
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,320
Yeah, sorry, I shouldn't be
using that.

549
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,760
Actually, and there's one thing
that always really made me

550
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,440
laugh, you know, in like the
Weasleys house, they're called

551
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,280
the Burrow, this big house.
And they all lived in in the

552
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:02,880
films, there's a clock on the
wall.

553
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,720
And obviously the dad's really
like, he's fascinated by

554
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,280
Muggles.
He's like, wow.

555
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,280
And there's one part where
Hermione mentioned about how her

556
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,400
parents are dentists and he's
like, what's on bloody?

557
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,000
What's a dentist?
Like what did it do?

558
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,360
And it's just like, okay, fair
enough.

559
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,240
On the wall, they've got this
magic clock, right?

560
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,280
It doesn't tell time, but it
just tells you everyone is and

561
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,280
what they're doing in the
family.

562
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,200
So each family member has an arm
on this clock, and it points to

563
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,120
where they are.
One of them dentist.

564
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,200
Do you know what a dentist is?
You got a clock there and it

565
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,240
points dentist.
Why is a wizard going to the

566
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,360
dentist?
My tooth Ding doesn't hurt.

567
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,960
Yeah, doesn't hurt anymore.
We've seen it on the train when

568
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,520
Harry Potter has his glasses
broken.

569
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,480
Ding fixed your glasses.
Why is there?

570
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,840
Why are you wearing glasses?
You're a Ding fixture.

571
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,560
We fixed it.
Why you got glasses on?

572
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,440
Why you want to train?
We need to get.

573
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,560
We need to get to Hogwarts.
Ding, I'm at Hogwarts.

574
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,360
Yeah, I'm a wizard.
Someone jumping a fire and come

575
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,200
out somewhere else.
Why am I getting in a car?

576
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,120
We need to go with a flying
guard to get there.

577
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,520
Why is the car?
Flying.

578
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,080
We're not limited.
That one actually is worse than

579
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,040
the Muggle thing, which is a
plane.

580
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,520
That one already exists.
You didn't even need magic for

581
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,480
that.
This is so much.

582
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,200
Too much swearing.
Can we calm down?

583
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,960
Calm down guys.
However, Muggle Studies is one

584
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,600
of the things you can learn at
Hogwarts, so that might.

585
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,120
Be a good subject.
We would know a lot about that,

586
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:32,680
wouldn't?
We.

587
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,040
We would.
Oh yeah, that's fun.

588
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:36,440
Nonsense.
That's funny.

589
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,440
I'm a wizard, though.
That's always just what my line.

590
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,280
Are they not?
Are they not magic?

591
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,440
Oh.
I didn't realise that magic had

592
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,120
these strange plot bounds.
They were just in a

593
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,200
transfiguration class where you
could just change a pen into a

594
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,400
bat.
He just why right about the

595
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,360
stairs moving.
Yeah.

596
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,120
Oh, no, we've lost this key.
OK, there's a pencil.

597
00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,400
Tony into the key, you idiot.
Have you heard of Aloha Mora?

598
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:06,440
I can't see imagine being a
wizard and wearing glasses for

599
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,440
sake.
Is he a good wizard?

600
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,880
He's wearing glasses mate, no.
And his teeth are wonky.

601
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,400
Oh God.
Well, we've just ruined Harry

602
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,960
Potter.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.

603
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,480
There we go.
Pin the off is doing a good job

604
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,520
of that anyway.
Yeah, as I say, listen, she

605
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,640
shall not be named.
Right.

606
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,560
Let's move on to the next
question.

607
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,080
How?
How would you both deal with an

608
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,880
absolute knob head first year
teacher who comes in thinking

609
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,560
they know everything and are
going to be the best thing the

610
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,120
school's ever seen from an ex
secondary teacher?

611
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,160
Until that I was going to say,
is this your ex mentor?

612
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:42,720
Yeah, yeah.
Talk about.

613
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,800
That how do you do those guys?
So he thinks he's got his own

614
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,000
podcast.
He thinks he can go.

615
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,640
He knows everything.
Ruin Harry Potter.

616
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,680
Yeah, well, I mean, I definitely
as a new teacher, I feel like I

617
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,840
don't want to like I had I had
loads of passion and I do worry

618
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,680
that maybe it came across like
all but of a know it all, but

619
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,920
maybe you're looking at me like
that's true.

620
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,440
I think and I mean this with no
I'll intent.

621
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,920
Here we go.
I think there were multiple

622
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,600
people who were probably rubbed
up the wrong way by your

623
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,000
attitude, especially to maths
teaching big time and I'm not

624
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:14,880
even being A.
No, I agree.

625
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,560
I agree.
Like I, I think that existed

626
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,760
and, and I'm not saying they
were always right or wrong by

627
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,840
the way, I'm just saying 100%.
I can imagine you coming in.

628
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,440
Yeah, I've just actually done a
maths, A maths course and

629
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,960
actually Mastery's thing we're
doing now and the new curriculum

630
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,160
guys, don't you know this and.
You've all got to change this.

631
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,640
Yeah, 100% because I came in
hard and I was like, I had no

632
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,320
field at that point.
Classic young teacher.

633
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,320
I was willing to work every
single hour under the sun and

634
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,600
couldn't even comprehend the
idea that someone else might not

635
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:38,400
want to do that.
Yeah.

636
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,600
So I definitely was coming in as
a new master lead doing that.

637
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,680
Two prongs there isn't there as
well in terms of like, you were

638
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,960
willing to do an extra 20 hours
a week, but you were also

639
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,880
genuinely basically saying,
yeah, the way you've taught

640
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,400
maths for 15 years is crap.
Yeah.

641
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,320
And this is the best way now.
And I've just been taught it at

642
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:50,960
uni.
Yeah.

643
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,520
Like, can you, Can you imagine
now in our square, someone

644
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,320
coming in and saying, no, no,
that's crap now we're doing

645
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,600
this.
Like, yeah, even if what they're

646
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,640
doing is better, that's not the
way to go about it.

647
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,720
Yeah, even like pedagogically,
ideologically, it's like, I'm

648
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,320
sorry mate, but you're not that.
I've got so much skin in the

649
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,840
game.
I'm so, so competent with

650
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,000
teaching maths now.
You might have come into a

651
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,680
lesson where it looked a bit
boring because I was, maybe I

652
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,800
was adapting to it on the
whiteboard and you're thinking,

653
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,680
oh, I got taught.
You should have stopped here for

654
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:18,960
a mini plan.
Are we need to get out these

655
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,760
particular blocks or something?
And maybe, maybe that would have

656
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,240
been a good thing.
But in that moment, I knew what

657
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,520
I was doing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

658
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,480
And understanding that every
minute can't possibly be

659
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,640
perfect.
So how do you deal with them

660
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,040
honestly?
Do you know what needs to happen

661
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,560
sometimes?
And I come from experience here

662
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,080
because I was also probably that
arrogant first year teacher who

663
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,240
definitely thought this is a
good way of doing stuff.

664
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:41,640
They need to be put in their
place.

665
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,400
Yeah, I do think that's
important.

666
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,440
And like we, we always, we, we
tend to talk a lot more about

667
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,360
how people in positions of
leadership are toxic or bad or

668
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,880
bring the wrong vibes.
And I think it's important that

669
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,000
we do have a, an imbalance there
because at the end of the day,

670
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,120
those people are in charge of
schools and implement things.

671
00:25:58,120 --> 00:25:59,520
Yeah.
So it's much more important, I

672
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,720
think, to call those things out
and talk about them and explain

673
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,840
how they're awful and can have
an effect on lots of people.

674
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,640
But I can't sit here and pretend
that it doesn't happen the other

675
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,480
way around where teachers are
just either rubbish at their job

676
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,720
that that is a thing that
happens or like this arrogant

677
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,640
and kind of are also toxic in
their.

678
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,640
Own perhaps in this situation
arrogant because they're

679
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,760
ignorant of like I was
definitely just ignorant of what

680
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,760
the reality of teaching.
I think there's a way to do it

681
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:21,920
though.
I think that's really important.

682
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,640
When we say put them in their
place, I mean it could be

683
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,040
interpreted in a bad way and in
a good.

684
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,400
Way I mean the bad way you mean.
You mean the bad way call them

685
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,680
out and Barry some publicly
shame, shame them.

686
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,560
Yeah, I think the alcove good
throwback.

687
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,320
But I like I when I think of
that situation, I think probably

688
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,120
going up to them saying, oh, a
knob head, you stop thinking on

689
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,560
the bee's knees, you're rubbish,
actually get in your lane would

690
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,200
not be a good thing.
I think it's going to squash

691
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:43,640
that passion.
It's personally attacking.

692
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,480
It's actually just rude.
All that sort of stuff is not

693
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,160
good.
Whereas I think a leader could

694
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,240
approach it and just pull them
aside and have a conversation

695
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,600
where they just make things more
known without being rude about

696
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,400
it.
Just saying, look, I appreciate

697
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,520
your passion.
I understand where this is

698
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,280
coming from, but you just need
to know that this is the effect

699
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,000
is having on this stuff.
You might not have thought about

700
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,400
it.
It's doing this, this and this.

701
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:02,760
I just want you to be a little
more considerate.

702
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:03,640
All part of the learning
process.

703
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,160
We've all been there.
It's fine.

704
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,320
And but doing it that way, you
know what I mean?

705
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:10,160
Like as a structural thing,
constructive feedback, but still

706
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,400
letting them know like you need
to stop doing that, you know,

707
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,640
because you'd actually, there's
still a lot to learn here and

708
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,480
there's things you didn't think
about and I'm making you aware

709
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,320
politely.
If you carry on though, I will

710
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,360
be calling you a knob head next
time.

711
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:22,640
You continue being a knob head,
I will call you.

712
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,440
I think the big thing there just
to round it off is there is not

713
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,720
one way to do stuff.
I really, really, truly think

714
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,840
that.
And there's lots of ways to do

715
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,960
stuff well.
And the obsession with there

716
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,480
only being one way has led to a
lack of creativity in schools

717
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,640
and lessons and high workload
for teachers who have had to

718
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,960
replan things and do it in
certain ways from the top down.

719
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,160
I also think coming in from the
bottom and kind of being that

720
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,080
teacher who doesn't have the
back of their staff and

721
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,880
understand the experience and
the other things people bring to

722
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,680
the table, that's harmful as
well.

723
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,320
Definitely, definitely.
Should we go to the next

724
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:53,920
question?
Let's go.

725
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,040
I'm going to read it to you this
time.

726
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,400
So next question.
What is the most unexpected

727
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,120
skill you have developed from
teaching?

728
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,680
I realised I have unexpectedly
good balance.

729
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,120
I can balance a child's chair on
my chin.

730
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,040
That's a really funny one.
I like the idea of it with.

731
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,960
The child on it, yeah.
That's next level and I still

732
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,160
having up on that one.
It was this written in by Seal.

733
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,080
I think it might have been.
I think it might.

734
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,160
Be not good at teaching,
fantastic at balance.

735
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,520
I've got one.
Come on, I've got one.

736
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,000
Eating stuff in the bin.
Throwing things in the bin is a

737
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,880
skill that I have developed over
the years.

738
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,480
The literal thing you tell the
kids not to do.

739
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,200
Don't throw in the classroom.
At any point where I had a bit

740
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,360
of paper and I wasn't near the
bin, I could not help myself but

741
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:36,880
throw it.
And then also tell the kids all

742
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,000
don't do that.
Yeah, terrible, absolute

743
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,360
hypocrite.
But I got good at it to the

744
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,720
point where I knew I knew it
would be worth it because I knew

745
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,720
I'd do a sick shot and the kids
would be like, whoa, Mrs

746
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,880
Stevens, he's sick at that.
And I was like, yeah, it's just

747
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,640
easy for me, isn't it?
This is the guy, by the way, who

748
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,480
said multiple times that he
doesn't want to be liked by the

749
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,440
kids just because he wants to be
popular eating stuff across the

750
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,560
room for.
Wait till you see me do a 360

751
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,160
over the head back shot straight
into the.

752
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,160
I can't imagine you moving 360
in any way.

753
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,760
I can't imagine that.
I think your knees would break.

754
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,040
They would at this point.
This is in the past, but I also

755
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,200
liked it just for a bit of fun.
It's irrelevant really.

756
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,680
But I also knew that sometimes
I'd miss and the kids would just

757
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,920
find it really funny.
So and I'd always do the exact

758
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:16,960
same thing.
You know when you just have the

759
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,160
same script.
In your head.

760
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,720
I'd be like, I meant to do that.
I meant I was just showing you

761
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,120
kids that sometimes it's all
right to lose.

762
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,760
I just always make up some
stupid spiel and they knew I was

763
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,880
taking the Mick and I'd be
saving every time of like, no,

764
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,600
no, I did it on purpose.
I'll get the next one.

765
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:30,840
And you missed that.
Again, miss it.

766
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,000
Again, it doesn't matter.
It's sometimes it's about

767
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,040
showing that failures over time.
It shouldn't mean you should

768
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,760
stop.
Quit and I just you.

769
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,360
Should be on diary CEO podcast.
This is for racial.

770
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then I'd get and I'd get one

771
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,920
and see like, see first time.
Did you Have you seen me about

772
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,480
Michael Owen and have thrown an
apple in the bin?

773
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,520
You're giving Michael Owen vibe.
Sorry, no idea.

774
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,720
So Michael Owen would say like,
because, because you would, he

775
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,720
was obviously like a very young
talented footballer.

776
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,720
He won like the Balandor, which
means he's the best footballer

777
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,200
in the, in the world basically,
or Europe.

778
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,440
And he was talking about how he
was younger and like what, what

779
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,920
did he have inside of him that
made him so competitive and want

780
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,320
to be the best?
And he was like what he said

781
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,640
when I was younger, I would be
sat in the front room, There'd

782
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,320
be a bin over there, a bin by
the wall and a freshly decorated

783
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,280
wall over there.
And I had to finish an apple in

784
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:13,960
my hand.
And I had the balls.

785
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,880
I had the gumption to throw in
because I knew it would go in

786
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,280
and my mum would say don't do
that.

787
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:19,720
It might hit the wall.
And I'd go, mum, I'm going to

788
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,320
get it in.
And I threw it and it would go

789
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:22,400
in every time.
So funny.

790
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:23,920
Give me Michael own vibes that
is.

791
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,320
Yeah, me, Michael, we are
similar guys, to be fair.

792
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,360
Yeah, yeah.
You're both energetic.

793
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,360
Yeah.
And as both powerful, both throw

794
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,400
stuff, both really, really,
really, really, really boring,

795
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,520
Yeah.
Yeah, both irrelevant now.

796
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,040
Past their heyday.
Yeah.

797
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,800
Yeah, comes out of a good line
once every so often.

798
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:43,720
Every now, yeah.
Every now and then.

799
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,720
But it's most memorable.
Memorable.

800
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:46,600
Yeah, memorable.
There you go.

801
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,400
That's all.
My one is reading upside down.

802
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,520
What?
I'm really good at reading

803
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,360
upside down now.
Oh, as in like because the books

804
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:53,920
like the other.
Way.

805
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:54,960
Yeah.
What I mean is reading upside

806
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,640
down, Yeah.
You got to understand that the

807
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:58,800
first thing I thought of was
you.

808
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,360
You literally upside down like a
bat.

809
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,600
You need to understand that when
you said really upside down, I

810
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,000
thought of you hanging like a
bat.

811
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,960
What's more likely the books the
wrong way around?

812
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,280
Or I'm the wrong that's why I
needed a minute to like realise

813
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,920
that what you were saying was
the books upside.

814
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,920
Down and writing upside down.
I'm really good at writing

815
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,040
upside down because I'd like go
to the whiteboard and then.

816
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,360
But how do you spell this word?
And I would sometimes just do it

817
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,760
like, so they could see it.
No need.

818
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,520
I could have just read it much
more quickly and spun the

819
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,160
whiteboard around.
But it was just another thing I

820
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,360
did.
So yeah, doing things the wrong

821
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,600
way around.
The kids will be like, how are

822
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:29,040
you?
How are you?

823
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,600
Reading that left and right,
which is another classic thing,

824
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,840
like when you're modelling today
and you just know that they're

825
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,480
seeing the reverse.
So when you're saying left, you

826
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,520
just have to go the other way.
Yeah.

827
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,160
Because that would just make
more sense to them, like little

828
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,840
things like that.
Yeah, yeah, 100%.

829
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,680
Yeah.
That's a, that's a really good

830
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,560
point.
But yeah, in general, like it's

831
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,400
mad what kids are amazed by and
that's certainly one of them.

832
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,280
Other thing close to yours
probably I've got really good at

833
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,120
bottle flipping.
That was really popular craze

834
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,600
for a while.
Because it was such a craze.

835
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,480
And I think, I think the crazies
like that when they're literally

836
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,320
harmless, which that obviously
is, it's obviously a completely

837
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,360
harmless.
It's not a craze of pushing

838
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,160
someone down a well, welling.
If welling became a thing, I'd

839
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,120
be like, well, let's not do that
ever.

840
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,320
I'm not going to do that one,
Yeah.

841
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,760
Let's avoid that completely.
Well.

842
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,960
Actually, come here.
Maybe you, maybe just you, but

843
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,080
with like, bottle flipping, it
was so inconsequential.

844
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,520
And the only way that I felt
like I could just stop them

845
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,680
wanting to do it all the time
was either take away their water

846
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,720
bottles, which I personally was
just never going to do, or was

847
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:20,880
that my class have their water
bottles.

848
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,600
Yeah, just because they're
humans and they like to drink

849
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,760
sometimes.
Yeah, we take, but I just don't

850
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,880
do that or what I had to do was
basically say to them, look at

851
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,600
the end of the day, we'll do
some bottle flipping.

852
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,080
Yeah, and you just join them?
Right, Yeah, exactly that.

853
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,280
So literally we would get
through the whole day and have

854
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,480
their bottles and they'd know
because they were so desperate

855
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,760
to do it that I just would let
them at the end of the day do it

856
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,200
for a bit when they're lining
up.

857
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,280
So I said to them when you go to
line up, I say you're disable to

858
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,240
line up, you can do a couple of
bottle flips and see what you

859
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,840
can do.
Obviously at the same time I was

860
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,040
like, I want to have a go as
well because I'm incredibly

861
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,840
competitive and I can't not want
to do this.

862
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:52,800
So I've got quite good at
bottle.

863
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,080
Flipping and the end of the day
just happens to be in your

864
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,600
definition in the last two hours
of where we were going to be

865
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,080
doing re bear us.
Well, we can learn about that.

866
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,040
We could do rivers.
Rivers, Yeah.

867
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,200
Or we could make.
Some rivers 15 times the last

868
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,280
two weeks.
Can we do something else?

869
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,680
Well, all right then.
This time we'll do some bottle

870
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,080
flipping.
I love teaching rivers.

871
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,600
I tell you what you teach my
daughter that be great.

872
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,840
I I I am glad that that craze
wasn't at the same time as the

873
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,800
obsession with all of all of
kids water bottles as being

874
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,040
metal.
Oh my God that would be so

875
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,440
annoying.
Yeah.

876
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,280
They're already annoying.
They fall over one time, like

877
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,200
echoes around the room for three
minutes.

878
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,440
Christ, Big Ben's gone.
Sorry and.

879
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,480
They'd always leak.
They had kids would have like 2

880
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,640
litre water bottles that were
either made of metal or bright

881
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,720
pink K pop demon hunters.
And if they were, if it was

882
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,840
almost as if like they just
touched the table in the wrong

883
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,320
way, a snap.
Oh my bottle snapped OK.

884
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,400
My mum spent £25.
I think the problem was when

885
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,560
your mum spent £25 in a bottle
and sent it to school.

886
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,040
I think that might have been the
start of that.

887
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:56,680
Problem.
The issue?

888
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,760
Oh dear.
Anyway, can you try and fix it?

889
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,480
Not really.
It's plastic and it's snapped.

890
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,960
Got back, I'm afraid.
Oh man, right next question.

891
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:14,000
This is a good one actually.
Well, we actually finally got to

892
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,120
a good one.
Nice.

893
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,000
This is a good one actually.
Sorry guys, the rest of them

894
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,840
have been subpar.
This one, however, is good,

895
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:20,199
right?
Ready.

896
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,360
You know what I mean?
When is it appropriate to tell

897
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,560
the children they've done a bad?
Job tell the children.

898
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,120
Yeah.
When's it appropriate to tell

899
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,400
the children?
To tell the children, did I say?

900
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,760
No, you said a children.
No, no, no, you did.

901
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,120
But I did tell we all.
Well, we'll have to go back and

902
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,920
find out, won't we just start
again in case we cut this out.

903
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:36,800
What is it then?
We won't.

904
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,960
We won't because I because
actually didn't see The thing is

905
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,520
I I think making mistakes is
really important and actually

906
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:43,840
moving on and showing that
you've missed every now and then

907
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:44,800
shows that you shouldn't give up
we're.

908
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,320
Going to get a bin like the in
the background.

909
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,360
Just the editing bin that clip I
had the.

910
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,360
Gumption to try and read that
sentence, I'll.

911
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,280
Just do what you did earlier
when you were in that long one

912
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,360
which was read at half speed for
some reason because you were

913
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:57,720
desperately trying not to get
anything wrong.

914
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,880
Right?
When is it appropriate to tell a

915
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,160
child that they've done a bad
job?

916
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,360
I'm not suggesting that we're
going to go out of our way to be

917
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,160
horrid and cruel, but there are
situations where a child has put

918
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,960
no effort into work or presented
work incredibly poorly through

919
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:10,800
no other reason than laziness or
rushing.

920
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,480
When is it appropriate to tell
them that they've done a bad

921
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,680
job?
I.

922
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:20,320
Think genuinely if, if it's ever
because of laziness and and we

923
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,960
know as teachers, when it's down
to laziness or, or they don't

924
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,360
they, you know, oh, but maybe
they just didn't understand it.

925
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,240
Not talking about that kid.
Yeah, we're saying when we're

926
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:30,760
sure it's laziness, that's
that's the preface of this.

927
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,320
They've been talking to their
mates the whole time and I know

928
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,800
they can do it because they
literally did it 2 minutes ago.

929
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,240
Tell them straight away, yeah,
when's okay, Tell them every

930
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:37,880
single time.
Yeah.

931
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,040
Genuinely have really high
expectations and standards of

932
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,000
trying.
I always said this, my mum

933
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,840
drilled this into me.
When you get older and you start

934
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,680
to remember, like there are
certain things that have just

935
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,040
been drilled into me constantly
in my whole life, which was you

936
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,520
can control how hard you try on
something, but you can't control

937
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,760
the outcome.
So she always used to say,

938
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,520
listen, if you tried your best,
I will never, ever be annoyed

939
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,440
whatsoever.
But she would say that to me

940
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,640
because she'd know that I
wouldn't try my best, right,

941
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,040
genuinely, But and I'd, and I'd
still get like I'd scrape an A

942
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,280
or something or I'd get a high B
or whatever it might be, but

943
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,560
she'd be saying it to me.
I know, like the point was you

944
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,760
could have done better though.
So for you that A even though

945
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,960
it's great and it's obviously
better than the C, maybe like

946
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,720
someone else, let's say my
sister got AC in something else.

947
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,200
She she would be saying that to
make the point of she was more

948
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,360
OK with what my sister got and
more happy with what my sister

949
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,840
got than what I got.
She actually tried her.

950
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,520
Hard.
She tried, she tried 100%, I

951
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,920
tried 90% and she was just all
she would, all she would be

952
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,720
saying is like that's what you
got to do in your life is just

953
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:32,000
try.
Hard.

954
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,760
So what you're saying is you're
effortlessly better than all of

955
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,560
your siblings?
I think that's what's coming

956
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:36,960
from.
In this one, in this one

957
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,120
situation, I'm expressing in
academia and that one, one thing

958
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:45,000
because you know, like genuinely
I try other things like in terms

959
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,240
of let's just do an example now
of singing or dancing.

960
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:48,320
Yeah, or interacting with
people.

961
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:52,120
Yeah.
Sorry, singing.

962
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,160
Sorry, sorry.
Singing or dancing.

963
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,560
I really.
Yeah.

964
00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,400
Carry on man, not to derail your
story.

965
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,240
Go on.
But I'd really try and not be

966
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:03,760
very good.
I'm not very good at it.

967
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,360
Yeah.
So that stuck with me.

968
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,440
And I think that's, I think
that's such a good thing for

969
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,960
kids to have genuinely in the
back of their mind.

970
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,440
Yeah, definitely is.
Did you try hardest at

971
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:12,680
something?
And when it's laziness like

972
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,880
that, tell them straight away.
Is that what your guys?

973
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,520
Yeah, no, me too.
And I definitely earlier in my

974
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,640
career again, that was something
I thought all should I is it is

975
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,480
that bad and I definitely got
better at that over my career.

976
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,480
I think I needed someone.
I'm hoping this person just

977
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,240
needs someone to say no, no, no.
What your your gut feeling of

978
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:27,880
saying to that kid?
No, that's just that's a really

979
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,280
bad job and not actually
praising them because they have

980
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:31,680
genuinely just put no effort
into it.

981
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,240
He's actually all right.
Something like we don't have to

982
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:36,880
be like all super cautious.
No, tell them that's how else

983
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,600
they're going to learn.
Our job is to help these kids

984
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,680
develop as people.
It's not, not just to say they

985
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,440
just praise them for everything
and, you know, like the whole

986
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,280
thing of all participation
medals, everyone's a winner.

987
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,280
No, not, yeah, no, not.
And that's actually not how it

988
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,400
isn't reality anyway.
So no, they, you didn't really

989
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:50,520
try very hard on that.
I've seen that.

990
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:51,400
That's rubbish.
Yeah.

991
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,760
I've seen people like people say
to maybe this is too harsh.

992
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,240
I've I what you're going to say?
I think this is too.

993
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,360
I think there's a way of doing.
It it is.

994
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,520
I agree.
But like this is like the NTH

995
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,520
degree of OK cool, RIP that page
out of your book.

996
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,120
Do it again.
Like this is nothing like this

997
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,240
is not a good enough job.
The expectations are way higher

998
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:07,520
than this.
I'm not praising it at all, but

999
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,280
you know you, you know.
In you see me teaching stuff, I

1000
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,320
am like praise heavy like it's
it's like it's massive.

1001
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,000
It's just the way I teach and
I'll be something you shouldn't

1002
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,440
praise all the time.
Don't care.

1003
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:18,880
I do works with me.
I like it.

1004
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,560
I love praise.
I love saying how amazing.

1005
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,920
I love looking at amazing,
whatever it might be, whether

1006
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,920
it's like being a nice person
doing good work, like over the

1007
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,600
top.
But I will never, ever, ever

1008
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,240
praise someone incorrectly.
No, I'll never praise someone

1009
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,440
because they did, because I feel
like, oh, well, let's just give

1010
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,320
them some praise.
No, the praise is always earned.

1011
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,040
It's always because of a reason.
So I never say, wow, they tried

1012
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:38,800
so hard when I know they didn't.
Yeah.

1013
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,200
And if you didn't try hard, you
need to know you tried less

1014
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:41,880
hard.
Yeah.

1015
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,400
Like I said about there how
ripping out the books, probably

1016
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:45,320
the best way to do it.
Yeah.

1017
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,200
The most passive way to do it in
the world is to massively big up

1018
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,360
everyone who is trying.
Yeah.

1019
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,760
That, that that is still sending
that message to that person

1020
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,480
without necessarily making them
feel bad.

1021
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,440
So if you want a bit of advice
on how to at least start with it

1022
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,920
and you don't want to say to a
kid that's rubbish, like,

1023
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,840
obviously no one wants to do
that exactly because you were

1024
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,040
very candid in a town to you.
I know it's not necessarily what

1025
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,520
you'd say to the kids, but even
like having that conversation

1026
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,560
with a child can feel quite
worrying sometimes, especially

1027
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,160
if you think about your parent
backlash, etcetera.

1028
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,760
After, even if you're in the
right.

1029
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,880
The person sat next to me who
did really try.

1030
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:15,120
I'd be making that point.
You.

1031
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,640
Wow, you tried so hard.
Even if it's worse than what the

1032
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,000
other person's done.
Yeah, because they tried.

1033
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,200
You tried.
So I've watched you sit there,

1034
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,680
rub things out, try drawing it
again, have another go.

1035
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,080
Looked at what you were drawing.
You put so much effort in.

1036
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,600
I'm so, so impressed with what
you've.

1037
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,800
Done.
I'm so proud of that Well done

1038
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,640
100% and then finish.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

1039
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,000
Just to be really clear as well,
I want to give an exact example

1040
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,920
of what I would do it basically
every single time.

1041
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,640
So there's never been a
situation in my whole career

1042
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,520
where I've ever just gone to a
kid that's rubbish and walked

1043
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:40,760
away and said, Gee, you've got
to do it again.

1044
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,320
I've always even done what you
said.

1045
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,600
Or more likely for me, I
normally do it in their own kids

1046
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,800
work.
So if it's I will, I will praise

1047
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,240
them for something they've done
that is good in the past and use

1048
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:51,880
that as a comparison for them in
that moment to say the reason

1049
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,840
I'm telling you this is not good
enough is because look, turn

1050
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,760
back 2 pages.
I literally know that you're

1051
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:56,760
capable about these other
things.

1052
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,040
This is fantastic.
Get the praise in so they still

1053
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,160
feel good about the other stuff
because then they're more likely

1054
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,400
to respond and listen to when
you're saying, so therefore this

1055
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,640
isn't good enough.
I actually do.

1056
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:06,800
I would have made it really
clear now because I always feel

1057
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,080
like I hate.
The idea that someone did take

1058
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,640
what I was saying earlier, it's
like, yeah, just.

1059
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,200
Tell us I know what you meant
because it was you were talking

1060
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,440
in.
General and you know how I've

1061
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,080
taught so.
But like, I actually genuinely

1062
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,160
think it is an absolute net loss
if you just exclusively tell a

1063
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,160
kid that's rubbish, you've done
a bad job if you don't do

1064
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,360
anything around constructive to
be constructive.

1065
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,400
Yeah, which includes praise.
Like, yeah, I agree.

1066
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,200
My whole career has been built
on praise, making kids feel

1067
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,560
good.
But everything they do so that

1068
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,800
in those little moments where
actually you call them out and

1069
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,560
say that's not good enough, I
got high expectations to you.

1070
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,920
They listen and they go, Oh
yeah, actually, crikey, because

1071
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,720
this person isn't telling me I'm
rubbish all the time.

1072
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,400
Then normally praising all the
good stuff I do and when I try

1073
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,960
to skirt around it and be a bit
cheeky and do something that's a

1074
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,760
bit rubbish and hoping they
praise me for that as well.

1075
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:44,760
They didn't.
Yeah.

1076
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,240
And I should probably.
Oh, I can't get away with that.

1077
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:48,520
I need to try hard again.
You can often as well when

1078
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,480
you're doing it like what you're
saying when you're praising them

1079
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,600
still and making them feel good
and saying something's happened

1080
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,760
here.
Another by product of that is

1081
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,880
yeah sometimes actually they'll
just buck their ideas out

1082
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,600
because they feel good that
you're praising them and they do

1083
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,360
OK I actually had you know what
I was just being amazed.

1084
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,800
Let's do it equally.
If they don't, then you it helps

1085
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,040
you get to the bottom of maybe
why.

1086
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,600
Yeah, because there is sometimes
reasons for like a fall off and

1087
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,560
like the child might be
distracted like with something

1088
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,040
going on at home.
I'm not saying like I feel like

1089
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,200
recently we talked a lot about
behaviour and it's been a lot

1090
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,080
about how this personal, you
know, responsibility of what

1091
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,720
what you're choosing to do.
And I don't want anyone to think

1092
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,520
that I still think there are
definitely reasons for lots of

1093
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,440
behaviour.
I just don't like the blanket

1094
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,320
term of always.
It's because of something that

1095
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,560
should be let off.
But in this situation, when a

1096
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,640
child is putting less effort in
actually framing it like this in

1097
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,440
terms of positivity and still
have having high standards and

1098
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,320
still boosting them up, you you
can then use that as a door into

1099
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,720
trying to find out what's going
on then.

1100
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:42,200
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, Oh, you're knackered.

1101
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,080
What?
Oh, like, that's I'm just tired

1102
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:44,440
today.
So.

1103
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,320
Oh, why are you tired today?
Like, you have the general

1104
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,120
conversation.
I was up late last night, my

1105
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,960
little sister was ill, my mum
was up and it just kept me up.

1106
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,400
Oh, no, that, that sounds OK.
Just take it easy, do what you

1107
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,320
can do.
No problem.

1108
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,440
The bar of what I expects change
for that child.

1109
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,000
Now I've learnt some
information.

1110
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,480
Where what I've, what I've
always said is have you tried

1111
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,920
your hardest?
Well, for that kid trying that,

1112
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,120
trying their hardest.
For anyone trying your hardest

1113
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,920
is different everyday.
Me trying my hardest today will

1114
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,560
be different to me trying my
hardest next week.

1115
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,480
If I've just had some bad news,
me trying my hardest might look

1116
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,560
like it's a 50% drop off.
If I've just had the best news

1117
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,440
in the world, I'm invigorated
and excited about what I'm

1118
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,080
doing.
Me trying my best might look

1119
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,160
twice as good now.
Yeah, it's about understanding

1120
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,680
what's going on and still as a
teacher.

1121
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,160
Being constructive enough to try
and figure out what's going on

1122
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,800
and if they're not where they
should be for where they are in

1123
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,400
that moment, helping them get
there.

1124
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,240
You're so right.
The nuance of the situation is

1125
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:36,560
so important.
And as a teacher, in my mind,

1126
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,040
I'd always be, even though I'm
still thinking they've done a

1127
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,680
bad job and I'm not going to let
them get away.

1128
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,840
I'm not going to.
I'm not going to not mention it.

1129
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,480
Yeah.
I would still also be thinking,

1130
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,520
why is that, though?
And if I can, if it's someone

1131
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,520
who never, ever, ever does that,
and this is really out of the

1132
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,360
blue, honestly, my first thought
is, OK, something's wrong.

1133
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,160
And actually I'm going to to try
and probe and find that out.

1134
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,160
I'm still going to, I'm still
going to use it to address the

1135
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,440
situation of like, I will still
say something like, I've noticed

1136
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,360
this is not like your ordinary,
well, like look at this great

1137
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,120
work today.
This is nothing like the normal

1138
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:02,360
expectation you have of
yourself.

1139
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,440
And in that nuanced situation,
I'd be then getting straight to,

1140
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:06,880
are you OK?
Like what's wrong?

1141
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,360
Like, because, because the
other, because I know it doesn't

1142
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:09,680
normally happen.
Whereas if it's a different

1143
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,160
child, it might be different.
If I know it's someone who

1144
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,760
regularly tries it on and just
can't be bothered or whatever,

1145
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,440
then it might be different.
I might not be going down the

1146
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:16,400
route of thinking, Oh no, what's
wrong?

1147
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:17,880
I'd be just thinking, well, I do
this all the time.

1148
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,000
So actually, I just need to
reinforce expectations with this

1149
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,000
child.
But yeah, to answer the

1150
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,080
question, though, when is it
appropriate to tell them to have

1151
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,880
done a bad job?
Honest to God, anytime they've

1152
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,800
done a bad job because you think
they they haven't met their own

1153
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,640
potential expectations.
And how you go about that is the

1154
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,600
last five minutes of this
conversation shows that's really

1155
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,400
important within the nuance of
the conversation, exactly how

1156
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,880
you approach that situation.
One tiny thing I'll add to this,

1157
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,200
because it was a video that
transformed my outlook on this

1158
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,600
and transformed my outlook as a
teacher, genuinely was a very

1159
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,000
short video.
And it was an art class and it

1160
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,840
was a person stood at the front
of the room with like just a

1161
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:50,160
Flipboard.
And the children were all sat on

1162
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,720
the floor and they got them up
to the front and they showed

1163
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:55,720
them a picture of a butterfly,
showed a picture of a butterfly.

1164
00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:57,080
And they said go and draw this
butterfly.

1165
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,760
They went off.
They all drew a butterfly.

1166
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,920
They all drew the classic, what
you would imagine as a

1167
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,680
butterfly, very cartoonish
version, brought them back in.

1168
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,400
And then the teacher would say,
fantastic work, well done.

1169
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,000
But let's just look at your
drawings for a minute and look

1170
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:11,120
at the picture that's on the
board.

1171
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,760
How many, how many wings does
this butterfly have?

1172
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,680
Like how many, how many times
does it jut out?

1173
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,640
And they'll go 03.
I'm like, I don't think anyone

1174
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,640
drew 3 juttings out on their
butterfly.

1175
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,520
You just drew 2 because it was
what was in your head.

1176
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:24,520
Do you think we could improve
our drawings now?

1177
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,480
And they go, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kids run off, have a new piece

1178
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,400
of paper, draw again.
It's closer to what's on the

1179
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,280
board.
Bring it back.

1180
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:30,880
Wow.
That's a.

1181
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,880
Oh, I wait.
Look at you, little matey over

1182
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,960
there.
You drew antennas on yours.

1183
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:37,240
Why did you draw antennas on
yours?

1184
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:38,640
Because the picture has
antennas.

1185
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,120
It does, doesn't it?
Look.

1186
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,080
And it's a long line and has a
little circle on the end no one

1187
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,080
else seems to draw into.
Do you think we could make our

1188
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,480
drawings even better now?
Yeah, we could.

1189
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,560
What we're essentially saying
here is to the children, what

1190
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,280
you're doing initially isn't
good enough.

1191
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,000
But it's it's framed in such a
positive way where the children

1192
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,320
are excited to go back and grab
a new bit of paper and doing a

1193
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,480
picture.
And it's about feedback and

1194
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,280
being constructive and not being
scared to just because their

1195
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,600
young children think, oh, I've
got to give you all the praise

1196
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,680
in the world for how amazing
this picture of a butterfly is.

1197
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,400
That's a rubbish picture of a
butterfly.

1198
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:13,280
I'm not going to say this to the
child, but it's my job as the

1199
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,680
teacher to have some
constructive input here, where,

1200
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,480
A, the children think it's
normal to get constructive input

1201
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,600
and later on in life they won't
take it personally when someone

1202
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:22,800
says something needs to be
improved.

1203
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,800
But B, actually it's just
getting them to physically do it

1204
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,040
better and think, what?
What did I ask you to do?

1205
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,280
Did I ask you to draw a
butterfly from your mind?

1206
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,560
No, no, we all draw butterfly.
I asked us to draw this

1207
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,800
butterfly.
So when we're sketching, we'd

1208
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,520
spend more time looking at the
picture we're sketching than we

1209
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,240
do the paper in front of us.
That's not a natural thing for a

1210
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,040
child to do.
If you ask a child to copy

1211
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,880
something, they're staring at
this their their paper, they're

1212
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,560
barely looking up.
So you just start teaching them

1213
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,360
that.
It's constructive.

1214
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,400
And this particular actual
exercise here and only does that

1215
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,480
really nicely, but it is
literally teaching the children

1216
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,040
to edit their work and know that
their work not being of a

1217
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,840
certain standard in the 1st
place is actually completely

1218
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,840
normal.
It it, do you know what?

1219
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,240
Everyone's first draft of
anything ever isn't the best

1220
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:11,520
version of what they can do.
Breakdown that barrier early is

1221
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,160
what I'd say.
And don't be scared with young

1222
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,320
kids to to make them improve
something or tell them where

1223
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,560
they can improve because I think
that breeds more confidence as

1224
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,360
they get older.
Definitely.

1225
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,080
I know the exact video you were
talking about as well, because I

1226
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,240
also that was like gospel to me.
Yeah, I remember watching that

1227
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:25,960
early in my career thinking this
is the perfect analogy because

1228
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:26,920
they were really nice for the
kids.

1229
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,680
The kids were safe, the kids
were happy.

1230
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,800
There was no picking onto.
Oh, isn't it awful to say no?

1231
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,600
Yeah, it's not.
Right, Dylan, this episode is

1232
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,520
going on, but I really want to
ask this last question, OK?

1233
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:38,760
It's how do you respond when
children ask about political

1234
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,840
events such as the Ukraine war
or Donald Trump?

1235
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,120
Do we dismiss these topics out
of hand as distracting and

1236
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,200
irrelevant to what we're doing,
or do we encourage children to

1237
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,480
ask questions?
If a 5 year old asked me about

1238
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,080
what's going on in the world
right now, I think I'd be

1239
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,120
perplexed.
I think I'd be perplexed too.

1240
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:53,720
Yeah, definitely.
It's an interesting 1, isn't it?

1241
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:56,080
So like, basically the overall
thing here is, do you think that

1242
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:57,880
these political things are
nothing really to do with the

1243
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,880
curriculum when they weave their
way into the classroom?

1244
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:01,480
Do you think as a teacher we
should be discussing these

1245
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,640
things, giving opinions, all
that sort of stuff?

1246
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,960
I don't think we should be
giving opinions on political

1247
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,000
ideologies whatsoever.
Really.

1248
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,480
No, no.
Was it like in terms of

1249
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,080
pureplay?
The The the issue with what I'm

1250
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,160
saying here is when people will
have different definitions of

1251
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,120
when something stops being
political and starts just being

1252
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,760
to do with human human.
Yeah, I've got one right now

1253
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,280
ready just to get get this
conversation going.

1254
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,720
If someone if a 7 year old said
to you, Mr. Price, is Putin a

1255
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:27,800
bad person?
Right.

1256
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,120
What?
What do you actually say in that

1257
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,560
situation?
Yeah, because honestly, it do I

1258
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,920
think it's political to say
Putin's a bad person New No.

1259
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,280
Do will other people think
that's political?

1260
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,560
Yes, of course they will.
So I have to think, I have to

1261
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,200
think as a professional and take
out my personal opinion of

1262
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,200
things.
And I think there has to be a

1263
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:51,000
really, really strict and clear
guidance for staff school wide.

1264
00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:53,560
And it can't be left down to the
discretion of the teacher.

1265
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,920
Because the issue we'll have
there then is that some

1266
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,120
discussions are going on in some
classrooms and other discussions

1267
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:00,360
are being quashed in other
classrooms.

1268
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,440
Because I think that's not for
the classroom, but the teacher

1269
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,000
down the road thinks actually,
do you know what the Ukraine

1270
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,240
war, we've got a spectrum of
things that are going on, right?

1271
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:10,320
The Ukraine war, I think it's a
very normal mainstream view

1272
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,600
that's not politicised to say
that Russia in created invaded

1273
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,440
Ukraine and Russia's a bad a
bad.

1274
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,160
That's a bad force.
Yeah, right.

1275
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,360
Yeah, I think that's a very
mainstream thing to say.

1276
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,400
There'll be some people.
If you go across now you say

1277
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,640
Donald Trump's a bad person,
more people will be on the side

1278
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,400
of, Oh, well, you shouldn't say
that compared to saying Putin is

1279
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,840
a bad person, right, Because the
things Putin has literally done

1280
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,600
I think are definitely,
absolutely worse than the actual

1281
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:34,720
things that Donald Trump has
done.

1282
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,440
Do I personally still think
Donald Trump is a bad leader, a

1283
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,760
bad person?
Personally, I might well do,

1284
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,960
yeah.
Should I be saying that to the

1285
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,760
children in the classroom?
I don't know.

1286
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,480
Keep going.
Keir Starmer.

1287
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,200
There'll be loads of people out
there who think Keir Starmer's

1288
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,680
her horrendous Prime Minister
who's doing awful things for the

1289
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,800
country, and that's just that.
Yeah, you can say that.

1290
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:54,920
Of course you can, because he's
just awful.

1291
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,120
It's for us.
There'll be loads of other

1292
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:57,760
people who say why we ain't even
mentioning that in the

1293
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,840
classroom.
The line drops and drops and

1294
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,280
drops and drops, and people will
have their own definition of

1295
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,680
where that line should be.
And it will depend on what they

1296
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:06,080
personally think politically as
well.

1297
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,160
Some people will think it's OK
in a school, for example,

1298
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,560
literally Reform, one reform
councillor, I think he was, or,

1299
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:17,000
or a member of the party posted
about how he went into a school

1300
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,560
and was talking about reform
politics and what he's doing.

1301
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,080
OK.
In the same breath, there'll be

1302
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:24,600
people in Reform who say you
absolutely.

1303
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:26,840
It's terrible for teachers to be
saying anything to do with

1304
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,360
political ideologies whatsoever
in school.

1305
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:29,680
It's awful, Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, indominating

1306
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,880
children.
They kind of don't go hand in

1307
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,720
hand, do those two things, but
there's kind of no consistency

1308
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:36,520
there.
So my point here is every single

1309
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,080
person's a hypocrite.
Yeah.

1310
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:40,440
And if, you know, if there's
certain things on the left that

1311
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,440
you would say in your classroom,
you say all the right's all bad,

1312
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,280
there's certain thing on the
right and all the left's all

1313
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,480
bad.
There's a massive grey area.

1314
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,520
I think there's very obviously,
clearly some things that are

1315
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,000
outside of that grey area, which
are either definitely obviously

1316
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:53,360
good and definitely obviously
bad.

1317
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:57,480
But where that line comes is is
so tricky to navigate as

1318
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,920
professional that it needs to be
taken out of the hands of the

1319
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:01,880
professionals, I think.
And you just have blanket

1320
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,920
guidance on something.
I think so as well, whether you

1321
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,960
personally agree or not, because
it's tricky.

1322
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:10,040
You know, for example, I don't
even know what happens with, you

1323
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,600
know, Spotify right now and
saying the wrong topics.

1324
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,720
And if it gets cancelled or the
algorithm is here, you say

1325
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:18,320
stuff, blah, blah, blah.
But like, for example, take any

1326
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,880
action of genocide.
Yeah, that's bad.

1327
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,600
Yeah, yeah, killing kids is bad.
Is that political to say?

1328
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,880
Very right now, right?
That's the crazy thing though,

1329
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,000
isn't?
It, but this is what I mean,

1330
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,320
like so.
So there'll be some people say

1331
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,760
no political talk whatsoever.
Oh, we're lumping in the opinion

1332
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,040
that killing children is bad
into political and therefore we

1333
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,760
can't talk about it.
What can we talk about?

1334
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Where is that line?

1335
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,040
I won't struggle with that.
I don't know about you.

1336
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,760
I've struggled with that my
whole career because I'm very

1337
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,720
aware that as a teacher I should
try to be unbiased and foster

1338
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:51,600
the children's minds in terms of
thinking for themselves and not

1339
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,760
just me shoving down their
throats my political ideologies

1340
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,600
or thoughts.
Completely aware that it's not.

1341
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,000
Why is it fair that I get to do
that?

1342
00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,920
And someone who has different
political ideologies, who's not

1343
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:01,840
the teacher in this class right
now doesn't get to like, I I

1344
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:03,200
appreciate that.
And where's the line?

1345
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,400
Where's not the line?
But I've always really struggled

1346
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:06,440
because kids want to talk about
it.

1347
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:07,480
Yeah.
Kids want to talk about the real

1348
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,400
world, especially in year 6,
which is why I spent most of my

1349
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:10,720
career.
They do come in and they have

1350
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:12,960
heard about the news for their
parents or even on TV or in the

1351
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,240
newspaper sometimes.
And they go, oh, Mrs Stevens,

1352
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:17,600
what do you think about this?
Trump's just done this or

1353
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,240
Putin's done this.
This is happening in Ukraine.

1354
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,200
This is going on with Israel.
And I go and sometimes I'm like,

1355
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,680
I, I'm like, I don't know if
ever I should say anything here

1356
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,880
at all.
Other times I revert to just

1357
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:29,280
trying to be like a middle man,
which I think is probably the

1358
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:30,240
safest bet.
What?

1359
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,200
Do you mean by middle man?
Because in in my head, I think

1360
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,600
what you're saying.
I just think now, yeah, I just

1361
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,960
say facts.
I just say, yeah, he did this

1362
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:39,520
thing, yeah.
Sure, that that's not too bad to

1363
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,360
me when it's not what you mean
factual things of like, yeah,

1364
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:41,840
this.
Yeah.

1365
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,920
This many people have have died,
unfortunately, this or what I

1366
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,160
might say is OK.
Yeah.

1367
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:46,440
What what's your thoughts on it
then?

1368
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:47,400
What What do you feel about
that?

1369
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,440
What do you think someone might
think that they disagree with

1370
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:50,520
you?
Like be in the middle man of

1371
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,120
like encouraging them to think
critically without me actually

1372
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:54,720
saying, well, I don't think
that's true.

1373
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:56,560
And you do that for anyone.
Actually go home and your dad's

1374
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,280
wrong.
Like I'm not causing that.

1375
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,760
I'm not having that argument.
So, So if someone came into your

1376
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,760
class and said, wow, a
genocide's happening, they're

1377
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,640
killing kids, would you turn
around and say to them, yeah,

1378
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:05,760
but what do you think other
people would?

1379
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:07,080
No, exactly.
I don't know.

1380
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:08,440
I don't know.
In that situation, it's tricky.

1381
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:09,880
Isn't it?
So I think if we just strip it

1382
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,960
back to the only thing we should
be delivering is facts of what's

1383
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,400
happening and letting them
discuss and decide what they

1384
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,560
want for themselves, You know,
for example, Oh, yeah, Trump did

1385
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:18,240
this.
Trump did that.

1386
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,000
Yeah, actually I did read that
Trump's announced 15% tariffs

1387
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,520
and that means the cost of goods
is going to go up.

1388
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,360
That's just no one can argue
with that.

1389
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,520
That's just the fact they're
not, they're not laying down any

1390
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,200
opinion on it.
And then kids might say, why

1391
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,720
isn't that a bad thing?
Was like, well, some people

1392
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:33,440
think it's bad.
Some people.

1393
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,080
Think yeah, that's what I mean
about the middle one, that bit

1394
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:36,520
there.
I appreciate there's probably

1395
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,640
some situations where that
doesn't work always, but that,

1396
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,640
that part of that conversation
there is where I've decided I'm

1397
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,120
not going to say, yeah, it's
terrible.

1398
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,600
I I probably would just say,
yeah, some people think it's,

1399
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,200
some people think it's gonna
have a really bad effect to the

1400
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,320
economy.
Other people, some people don't

1401
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:49,800
think that.
Interesting to hear what you

1402
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:50,760
think.
Like there are some

1403
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,960
conversations that lend itself
more towards that where I would

1404
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,440
always try and err on the side
of caution.

1405
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,880
I think of not trying to, I
don't want.

1406
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,640
What I didn't want to ever do is
I thought, if, OK, if I picked

1407
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,360
off 20 random people from the
public right now and they all

1408
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,040
got to look at me right now,
they could all see in the

1409
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,840
classroom, would they say, would
they turn around to each other

1410
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:07,080
and be like, yeah, this guy's
forcing.

1411
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:10,040
This guy is inappropriately
pushing his opinions and

1412
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:11,360
political ideas on those
children.

1413
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,040
If they thought that from what I
was saying to them, then I don't

1414
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:15,160
think I'm doing.
I don't think that's right

1415
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:17,760
genuinely because I think what I
can't pretend it's right just

1416
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,880
because I agree with myself.
If someone was doing with like

1417
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,160
far right ideologies, I
wouldn't, I wouldn't then be

1418
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,040
able to sit there and be like,
well, it was all right for me to

1419
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:24,920
do it.
So I think it's all right for

1420
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:26,040
them to do it.
I don't think it's alright.

1421
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,000
I don't think, I don't think far
right ideology should be pushed

1422
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:29,280
in classrooms.
So I just don't.

1423
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,200
So therefore that means I can't
do it either.

1424
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,280
And I guess after all this
happens, I guess it's time to

1425
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,200
start RE when we start
indoctrinating kids anyway and

1426
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:36,960
saying Christianity is real
because we live in a school

1427
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:38,520
that's that's for some reason,
Catholic.

1428
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,160
There's a picture of the Pope on
the wall and we have to say a

1429
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:42,320
prayer at the start of every
lesson.

1430
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:42,640
Yeah.
Yeah.

1431
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,120
Indoctrination is fine.
Well, it's what I want to have

1432
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:46,480
put across.
Yeah.

1433
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,280
No, no, that's fine.
The indoctrination of the

1434
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:49,400
Catholic faith, that's
absolutely fine.

1435
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,080
But don't you dare talk about
all people being welcome here.

1436
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,320
All right.
I don't think that they, I don't

1437
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,160
think those two things go hand.
It's an extremely tricky

1438
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,280
conversation.
Like I don't know what the

1439
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,400
answer is.
It's there are so many layers to

1440
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,520
it and I think hopefully what
we've said here gets across

1441
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,200
roughly our opinions on that.
Yeah, communism, I suppose.

1442
00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:12,400
And the limitations, like you
said, that you replace the word

1443
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:13,920
political with religion and
suddenly the rules are

1444
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,640
different.
I made a joke about communism

1445
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:16,960
and you just treated it like I
was being dead.

1446
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,840
I'm so.
Sorry, I wasn't, I was too busy

1447
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,160
thinking about my .0.
I don't know.

1448
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,720
He thinks I want communism.
It's.

1449
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:26,120
Time to be commies.
Let's do it.

1450
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,920
Oh, mad yeah, crazy 1 crazy one.
We should we should dive.

1451
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,040
We should do like a whole
episode on that.

1452
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,440
I feel like we could talk
forever on political.

1453
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,120
We probably just did, didn't we?
Yeah, pretty much.

1454
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,480
But.
It's a really, really tricky 1

1455
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:42,000
is what I'd say.
Because, you know, I, I really,

1456
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:43,840
I really think it's our job to
be factual.

1457
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,960
Yeah.
And outside of class, we can

1458
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:48,160
have as many opinions as we
want.

1459
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,960
I actually just want to carry on
and teach you how to cross

1460
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:51,880
multiply.
Yeah.

1461
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:53,880
So if you could let me stop this
conversation now.

1462
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:55,440
I'm going to deliver the
curriculum.

1463
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:56,880
Yeah, Yeah.
So it's tricky.

1464
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:58,600
It is tricky.
And what's, what role does

1465
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:04,960
school have in those those
things that it it's OK to say

1466
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:06,400
school shouldn't be doing
anything political?

1467
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:07,720
Yeah.
The issue comes, then, with

1468
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:10,000
defining what's political.
And also, sorry, kids, I need

1469
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,680
to, we need to start with this
conversation because we've got

1470
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:13,720
to get back to our British
values lesson, which is being

1471
00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:15,440
pushed by the like, do you know
what I mean?

1472
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,840
Like there's so many lines where
I'm like, it's OK here ish, but

1473
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,040
not OK here.
We live in Britain.

1474
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:20,880
I I get it.
But like, it's still, it's still

1475
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,600
a cultural thing that might,
that can change over time.

1476
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:23,560
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?

1477
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,400
Like, and that and people that
we justify that being all right.

1478
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,240
We can't talk about these sort
of things, but we can't talk

1479
00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:29,560
about it when it's really within
religion.

1480
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,320
There's basically what I think
what you made clear is there are

1481
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,840
some things that are quite
objective, like so clearly right

1482
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:36,680
or wrong that you feel a little
bit less awkward saying, yeah,

1483
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:37,800
that's just objectively
terrible.

1484
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,200
But there's a massive grey area
where for me, inside that grey

1485
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,560
area are still things where I'm
like, that's clearly wrong.

1486
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,000
But for some reason I can't say
that because it's in this grey

1487
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:47,560
area.
And I don't want to say it

1488
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,320
because because there's people
that think it's clearly right.

1489
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,000
And I don't want them to also
have the power to say that

1490
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,560
because that's because that's
like, no.

1491
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:54,880
So yeah, the grey area is huge.
Don't really know.

1492
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:57,040
Don't really know the.
Answer.

1493
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:58,880
So answer that question.
Don't know.

1494
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:00,880
I'd also be perplexed.
It's tricky.

1495
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,880
Sometimes there isn't there a
really a really simple answer to

1496
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,520
something.
I'm glad you asked that.

1497
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:06,960
Jeez, could have just ended
there.

1498
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,080
Yeah, could have.
You gave me the trickiest

1499
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:09,360
question that we've probably
ever asked.

1500
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:11,480
Yeah, literally the hardest,
deepest question.

1501
00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:13,600
Let's stop there, guys.
If you've got this far, please

1502
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,600
leave us a review.
It helps us out massively.

1503
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,800
Share this podcast with your
teacher mates or your support

1504
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,320
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1505
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,200
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I didn't want to miss someone

1506
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:24,960
out because we'll get an angry
comment saying you don't care

1507
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:26,720
about those people.
You didn't mention them.

1508
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,160
Absolutely, I'm sorry.
And also don't forget to sign up

1509
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,320
for a massive demo if you're
interested in how to increase

1510
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,400
fluency in your school.
That's really good.

1511
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:34,520
Is that right?
We normally try and make it

1512
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,040
Segway, but that was just
straight up.

1513
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,960
I thought we're finishing, so I
thought we'll just get in there.

1514
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:38,960
Yeah, yeah.
Have a look.

1515
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:40,000
Alright, bye.
Bye.