Ep 177: SATs Pressure, Grouping By Ability & Are Displays Ever Useful..? (Q&A)

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Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teach Sleep.

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name is

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Hayden, and it's the return of
the school.

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Return of the school.
Unless you're on half time this

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week, in which case, well done.
But most people are back.

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We are here again with our Q&A,
ready to fill your ears with

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joy.
Hate him.

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That was a good intro I.
Know like that, right?

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Should we crack on?
Yeah, let's do it.

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What's the first question?
Right here we go.

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Ready.
Your feelings on displays are

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very clear.
Are they?

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I think we display our feelings
quite well on display.

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My in fact, I display my
feelings on displays better than

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I do displays.
Yeah, I wonder if this is about

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displays or just displaying our
feelings.

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Wonder anyway your feelings on
displays of affection.

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Weren't expecting that Lady.
Yeah, your feelings on displays

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are very clear, but at the end
of the day, they do need to

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exist.
No schools.

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I find it hard to create
displays that have any effect on

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children in a realistic world.
What displays do you think have

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the biggest impact in the
classroom?

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I have to be serious about
displays for a minute.

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Yeah, OK, let's not reinvent the
wheel, shall we?

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Talked about that enough
remitting the wheel on displays

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and bits and bobs.
The best effect I think this

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space have in the classroom are
distraction.

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How much do you want to I knew.
It I was looking, I think he's

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not gonna be serious.
Look at him, he's gonna be

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serious.
This really over the top

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intricate display so the kids
can stare at that instead of

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looking at me when I'm trying to
get them to understand

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fractions.
We've got a big tree in the

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corner, Sir.
I know, but can you just look at

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this right now please?
We're trying to make the

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denominators the same so we can
add them up.

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I want to read under the tree.
You'll be inspired to read when

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I tell you to be inspired to
read, and that's not now you can

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be.
Inspired by that Quickbook

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caller for exactly 15 minutes a
week when we get the timetable

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time to do it, I reckon this
person is rolling their eyes

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because they knew it.
They even put the centres at the

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beginning to to hopefully OK,
make us not do.

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This OK, right?
In all seriousness, in my

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opinion, the best use of the
space I've seen are, I'm gonna

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give one example, which is
working wars, which are when

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you're doing what you might be
doing on the whiteboard anyway.

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Why not do it on a piece of
paper so that when you're done,

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it can go on the map display and
maybe you can have a procedure

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looking at or whatever it is a
rule, anything that's fine that

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works nicely.
And in that respect also, I find

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displays that work well in my
primary classroom previously

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with things like vocabulary
walls, things children can

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actually interact with and look
at and use in their writing.

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Not necessarily the most over
the top Wow displays, but simply

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just actual pieces of language
that you can use or.

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But remember kids, this week
we're really focusing on commas

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in list.
If you're stuck, I want some

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examples.
It's always on that board over

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there.
Yeah.

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That kind of thing I think is
useful, whether it's a working

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wall or not.
I think the ability for a child

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to magpie things from the room
in a in a distinct space where

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they know where to look for
support.

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Obviously, I think that's a good
thing.

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Yeah, definitely that.
And even with English, it kind

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of is a working wall if even if
you change it less frequently

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than maths, maths you might be
changing it quite often because

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you're going through topics
quite quickly.

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If you're doing a on a
particular book and there's some

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great vocab you want to build up
over a term, that's a good place

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to put it right.
What you laughing at?

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I'm laughing at remembering my
English display.

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Why?
Why we did.

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We did How to Train Your Dragon
in terms 3 and in terms three

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and four.
Yeah, right.

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And I just remember you coming
here and like four months later

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and it was still How to Train
Your Dragon.

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You're just like, why are these
characters still up here?

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I was like, we are still reading
it.

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It's a chunky book.
But then I kind of took out

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myself to think, can it last a
year?

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Yeah, until it comes back
around, which is OK, people will

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say oh it's not best practise,
it's not, but I was just

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spending my time doing that
stuff.

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That also reminds me, remember
way, way back when we had also

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in a particular school, we had
to do not just classroom

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displays that had to be changed
terminally, we had to do

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corridor displays.
And we all had like 2 of them as

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well as yeah, it was so much
every time.

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And do you remember what?
I can't remember what the

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display was, but it was
something blue.

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I think it was our IT.
Was a wave?

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Was it a?
Wave what?

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Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.

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Scrunched up tissue paper.
We left it for two years, two

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years, two years 2.
Years we got away with it and we

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had to change them terminally,
so we got away with that for so.

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Long wasn't that?
Yeah, last year, yeah.

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But this time it's it's it's
displaying the wave of emotion

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for PSHE.
What is it next week?

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Oh, it's the wave of the wave of
Hinduism, I think because of the

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regeneration.
Why has it still got kids names

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from two years ago on it though?
Do you know what?

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Because that's the.
Wave of history.

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It's the wave of celebrating
past students.

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It's weird you've never done
geography.

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No, I hate rivers.
Don't care.

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This is the best one possible
for a geography I'm not doing a

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drug for.
This place, it's a massive wave,

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yeah.
Natural disasters Natural.

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Disasters.
Wasn't it?

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Wasn't it for Tsunami?
But I've honestly don't even

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know.
Is that not the most primary

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school thing you've ever heard?
Taking a horrible natural like a

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tsunami, horrendous.
And you're like, let's do a

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massive tissue display.
Imagine the tsunami survivor

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coming through.
What's why is that on the wall?

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Massive wave tsunamis that
destroyed your whole culture.

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OK, brilliant.
Good.

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Thanks for that.
Oh man anyway back to the actual

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questions finish.
I agree working was really good

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and also just just playing like
celebrating kids work that's.

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It to me, I'm like, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, they're just the

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best ones.
As a kid, I remember having

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stuff on the wall and it was
great.

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So realistically, between those
two things, they're useful.

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Am I going to do them?
That's.

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A different question, but.
Did specifically OK joke.

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Genuinely jokes aside, when
you're a kid do you remember

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there being A2 centimetre border
around your work that really

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made it stand out?
High school when I was when I

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was 5, it had a 4.5 centimetre
border.

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Actually, no, of course I don't.
Yeah, of course, if it's 1.8,

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obviously the kids are no
impact.

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No impact goes from huge impact
to nothing.

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Yeah, when there's millimetres
on the display, absolutely.

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Yeah, certainly should listen to
our episode on Wednesday if that

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resonates with you.
A little bit of a sneak peek

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there.
Cool.

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Next question, What do you think
will still be a feature in

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England for our primary school
education in 20 years, for

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example, you know, learning
objectives, Sats, paper towels,

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mini whiteboards, subjects even.
So what?

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What?
What do you think then?

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Two things.
I kind of want to rinch you a

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bit.
I just, I'm going to predict

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what you would say, which is
none of these things because AI

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is going to come in.
AI is going to replace us.

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It's going to be robot teachers.
It's inevitable.

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It's inevitable.
It's not what I want.

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It's not my opinion, it's not
what I want.

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It's just what's going to
happen.

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That's you.
So I've done your bit for you.

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Sorry, I love how you started
that off with I Oh, it's it's

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annoying because I just want to
do.

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Things I know I just like, Yeah.
You know, like true isn't.

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It it's, yeah, really true.
Yeah.

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You can tell us all about that
in a minute.

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We'd love to hear it.
Just give ahead a few minutes if

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you want to.
I think, I think the way the

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education system has gone so
far, I think we'll still be

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seeing mini whiteboards and just
sort of like a fun fact, I think

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they'll be the same mini white
boards that they are now in 20

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years time because there's no
money to replace anything.

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Yeah, there's white boards that
clearly weren't wiped in the,

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you know, you get like a 2 hour
window, don't you, for white

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whiteboard stuff off whiteboard
pen?

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Because if you don't, then it's
stuck on there.

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Yeah.
And then you have to get a

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whiteboard pen and shade over
the bit that's already on there,

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and then it rubs off that.
Isn't a good trick?

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That's a very good trick.
The kids always love to find

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that out, don't they?
Don't learn that in your PGC.

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No, no, and I'll take, I'll give
you I'm going to Chuck in two

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for one ear.
Another tip right?

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Best thing I ever learned
through COVID was hand

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sanitizer.
Works extremely extremely well.

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Cleaning your hands.
Cleaning.

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Your hands and also removing ink
from stuff that's true from.

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Whiteboarding, specifically very
very good ink from stuff very

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vague.
Don't get it on like some paper

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document.
Also, it doesn't do anything.

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Have you ever accidentally done
like, you know, whiteboard

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marker or even worse, permanent
marker on the smart board?

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One time.
Only one time.

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Yeah, it was quite bad.
Try and rub it off with the with

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the interactive rubber.
Yeah, that's not coming up.

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Maybe if I just try.
I didn't talk me a trick

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actually.
I'll just put a bit, put a bit

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more pen over it and ah God it
doesn't work off now.

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A little trick, don't you know
make more man have.

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You ever done that, by the way?
Because I've done that once.

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No, I haven't.
No, I'm not.

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I'm not a complete an idiot so.
Shut up, shut up.

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Before this context, before we
start this, Haley went, maybe we

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should tone down on the swearing
on the swearing every now.

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And I was like, no, you can just
beep away my friend.

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You've got something for the
podcast when you're.

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Ready to talk?
Yeah, brilliant.

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Well, you.
So let's carry on, shall we?

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But where we are going to
actually?

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Yeah, I forgot.
I forgot everything.

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We need to cover.
God, you can actually answer it.

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Then go on.
Then do you know what?

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There were people who have
really experienced educators now

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listening to me say this as if,
as if like finally caught up.

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I'm just, I'm just completely
fed up with like the political

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merry go round that goes on on
the side of education winds me

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up.
It'll be whatever the flavour of

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the month is at the time.
Yeah, whatever, whatever the

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government at the time think
we'll get them more votes will

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be the thing that they do,
right.

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It is as simple as that.
Like genuinely, if you get a

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government who come in and don't
really value education because

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they're more interested in votes
somewhere else, nothing will

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change.
If you get a government who

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comes in and really care about
identity politics and all that,

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kind of, you know, the kind of
virtue signalling and all that

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kind of stuff, that'll be really
important all of a sudden.

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Do you know what?
I just want kids to learn stuff

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and have a bit of behind the
actual education system to

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actually pay and fund this to
actually work for kids.

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It's not happening.
It's just round and round the

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garden.
Like a political madness.

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Just winds me up.
Winds me up 1.

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00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,160
Step 2.
Step particularly under.

229
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,120
There, you know, it's
ridiculous.

230
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,080
So yeah, in 20 years, who knows?
It depends what government we've

231
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,360
got, depends how they value
stuff.

232
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,200
It it, like it, it winds me up.
That's the important thing that

233
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:12,000
kind of shapes education and not
educators and professionals in

234
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,000
the system who say, well, these
are the clear next steps we need

235
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,120
here.
Let's go with that.

236
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,400
It's all just a facade and a
show to do as much as they can,

237
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:20,920
to get by as quickly as they
can.

238
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,760
And then if there's enough of a
pushback, they'll be like, oh,

239
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,040
we didn't mean it actually,
we're going to do this instead.

240
00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:29,480
Haven't got a backbone,
honestly, and I've not seen it

241
00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,080
at all.
I hope, I hope it changes, but

242
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:33,480
why would I think it will
change?

243
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,640
Yeah, of course.
Why would there's no evidence

244
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,320
for me to think, oh, yes, I
trust this, this lot of people

245
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,760
now I simply don't.
So there you go.

246
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,560
Not the AI doomsday thing, just
just in general doomsday.

247
00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:46,440
Just that, yeah.
And learning objectives, you

248
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,480
know, little things like that.
Yeah, no, that's good.

249
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:50,120
Good point.
Just.

250
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:51,360
Flavour of the mump stuff, isn't
it?

251
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:52,440
That's what you see all the
time.

252
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,560
And no actual, you know, the
only solid change I've seen is

253
00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:58,600
stripping things back.
The only actual fundamental

254
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,360
thing I've seen change is to
give less and less.

255
00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,000
Everything else is just, you
know, it's just papering over

256
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,280
the cracks.
The cracks are still there.

257
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,000
Yeah.
Doesn't matter how much you

258
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,080
paint over them, the cracks are
still there.

259
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,160
Deep, deep, deep cracks.
We can just get AI to just paper

260
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:15,000
just.
Here we go.

261
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,160
We, we used to do, we used to
just paint over these cracks.

262
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,920
What we can do now get an AI bot
to paint over them instead and

263
00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,760
it's much quicker.
Ohh, it's, it's quicker.

264
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,120
Great, fantastic.
That's all the matters,

265
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,520
apparently.
There we go.

266
00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:28,200
Well, that's it.
Nothing to add.

267
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:29,400
Let's move on to the next
question.

268
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:30,680
Here we go.
Here we go.

269
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,080
Oh, long one.
Hi, guys.

270
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:33,080
Oh, great.
I've got to read this one.

271
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,800
Hi, guys, I'm a year 6 teacher.
This poor bastard I wrote this

272
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,200
in only gives you really good
effort.

273
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,640
It's this question.
No, no, it's not 10 words.

274
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,360
No, just not a word.
Sorry.

275
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,320
Just to be clear, it's because
he takes the Mick out of me if I

276
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,360
read anything wrong.
So the longer it is, the more

277
00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,560
chance there is the.
Bar is quite low, isn't it?

278
00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:51,840
A teacher of 10 years?
You know, being able to read 2

279
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,240
paragraphs.
Tricky paragraph time bar.

280
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:55,360
Right.
Yeah, but it's, you know, it's

281
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,520
pressure because read here, read
listening.

282
00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,320
Hi guys.
I'm a year 6 teacher and I'm

283
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,760
really struggling with the lead
up to SATS.

284
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,160
My team has been telling our
headteachers since September

285
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,080
that this cohort is working way
below the national average, but

286
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,720
she's ignored us until now.
Classic.

287
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,880
Now that it's fast approaching,
she's panicked and is basically

288
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,800
blaming us for the data to fix
the results in quotation marks.

289
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,880
There she's heavily hinting that
we need to help in quotation

290
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,560
marks, the kids during the tests
telling us to point out specific

291
00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:24,680
mistakes they've made or read
out questions they've got wrong,

292
00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:25,920
even if they haven't asked for
help.

293
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,400
I'm really anxious because it
feels like I'm being pressured

294
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,680
to cheat just to cover for her
ignoring our warnings all year.

295
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,000
How do I handle ahead?
Who wants us to risk our jobs

296
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,360
for the sake of the school's
data?

297
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:39,000
There's a lot to unpack there,
isn't there?

298
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,800
Yeah.
And do you know what some people

299
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,000
will be listening to this and
thinking, man, that doesn't

300
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,880
happen.
I've never seen this happen

301
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:45,960
before.
It's done.

302
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,600
Oh my goodness me, it does every
year.

303
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,960
How many messages do we get
every year right from around now

304
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,560
up until SAT's of people saying
they're anxious, they're worried

305
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,480
about boastings, by the way.
So there's there's two, there's

306
00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:59,840
two parts to this question,
right?

307
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,000
The first part is the fact that,
you know, leadership ignoring,

308
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,440
you know, teachers please for
the whole year and explanations

309
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,320
about how they need more support
and help if we want to maintain

310
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,280
levels from previously, but also
the whole idea of just cheating

311
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:13,360
straight up.
So I don't know where do you

312
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,160
want to start.
Firstly, just gut feeling

313
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,800
because we can never prove or
disprove this.

314
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,000
What percentage of schools do
you reckon cheat in that SAT in

315
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,520
any capacity?
Any.

316
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,160
Capacity into including the
stuff that they think is not

317
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,240
cheating, but they just can gas
it themselves into thinking it's

318
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,560
not oh, we're just we're just
giving them a prompt when

319
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:31,760
they've got something like
cheating.

320
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:33,600
All the little thing.
How many schools?

321
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,440
You have seen them do it before
in the lesson.

322
00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,960
Don't.
OK, we wouldn't have a test.

323
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:39,880
Oh I didn't realise that was in
the administration guidance.

324
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,600
Read it then.
Because if you don't read it

325
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,600
you're cheating accidentally or
not, I don't care.

326
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:44,920
So how many schools do you
reckon?

327
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,240
What percentage?
What's your gut feeling and

328
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,760
bearing mind?
Guys, we cannot prove this or

329
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,400
disprove this is just for fun.
Based on all of my experience

330
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,560
ever and having spoken to
literally thousands of teachers

331
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:57,280
at this point, and putting into
account that the lowest level of

332
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,920
cheating is still cheating,
yeah, 40%.

333
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,240
Wow.
Yeah.

334
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,760
Honestly, I I truly believe
that.

335
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In Ford, depending of schools,

336
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:07,880
there'll be at least one
instance of some kind of

337
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:08,960
cheating going on.
Definitely.

338
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:10,520
I think, I think, I think
that's.

339
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,400
Not definitely, because we just
explained how we can't possibly

340
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,400
read this in.
My opinion, definitely.

341
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,720
My opinion is definitely that
my.

342
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,080
Opinion is I think.
It's huge.

343
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,040
I'd be really interested.
Obviously people don't want to

344
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:22,640
do it.
And again, this was an anonymous

345
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,200
submission here.
Most people don't want to put

346
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,640
their name to it, obviously.
Of course not, obviously.

347
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,720
Well, why, if it's happening so
much, why don't people just say

348
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,240
because they value their job?
Actually, yeah, there's a reason

349
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,000
with.
How can I, how can I do this

350
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,800
without risking my job?
Like they don't want to risk,

351
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,600
they don't want to risk their
job, and putting their name out

352
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:40,920
there is risking their job.
Yeah, obviously.

353
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,760
Yeah, precisely.
I think it happens a lot and

354
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,200
let's just maybe hone in then on
the on the whole cheating thing

355
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,840
because that you you hear it so
much and the the problem a lot

356
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,520
of schools have with Sats is
that it does.

357
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,720
I don't think people understand
unless they work in a school,

358
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,160
how it takes over the entire
school when Sats are happening.

359
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,920
Like every single spare possible
adult is involved in some way in

360
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,160
administering the Sats, whether
it's being a reader for a child,

361
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,560
being a prompt for a child,
being an invigilator, being in

362
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:09,360
the room basically numbers.
Schools want as many adults in

363
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,240
the room as possible to help the
children because there are there

364
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,280
is help you can do within the
rules of the Yeah, if children

365
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,120
put their hand up and ask you to
read a question in the maths

366
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,640
paper, you're allowed to do
that.

367
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that, that is completely

368
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,480
allowed.
It's not testing their reading,

369
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,560
but there's lots of rules and
stipulations we don't have to

370
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,760
necessarily get into now.
But the issue comes when I've,

371
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,640
I've heard a lot of teaching
assistant, I've heard this

372
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,880
before literally myself before
anyone says you're just making

373
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,600
things up where a teaching
assistant has come out of the

374
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,720
SAT afterwards and said, oh God,
that that I just had to tell him

375
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,960
to do that again.
I honest, honestly, like is this

376
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,000
is this apostrophe question?
I know he can do apostrophes and

377
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,840
he got it wrong.
So just give him a little try

378
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,120
that again.
Yeah, cheating.

379
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:47,720
And then he got it right, so I'm
glad I did.

380
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:48,840
Cheating.
Yeah.

381
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,760
Because, because built into the
test, whether you think it's

382
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,560
right or wrong or not, as a, as
a way of, you know, actually

383
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,440
showing what the children can
do, it comes from that kind of

384
00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,640
place of frustration that, you
know, kids can do, of course.

385
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,800
So I understand it.
But baked into the test itself

386
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,680
is the fact that children will
get things wrong, that they can

387
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:05,560
actually do it.
Exactly.

388
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,920
That's how the standardised
marks have worked out.

389
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,600
It's, it's already baked into
that.

390
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,040
So if you get rid of that
completely for a child, that

391
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,400
does give them a leg up on
someone else who also knew what

392
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,440
to do but got it wrong and were
left to their own devices.

393
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,520
Exactly.
That's the nature of the test,

394
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,360
right?
Because even if a guarantee, if

395
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,800
every teacher in the whole
school took that test, there'll

396
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,480
be some marks dropped.
It doesn't necessarily mean that

397
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,240
that person doesn't know exactly
how to do that, but it means

398
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,400
maybe in the test situation,
just going through whether it's

399
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,680
carelessness or anything, they
got that question wrong, that

400
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,360
whether we like it or not and we
can talk about, have a separate

401
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,480
conversation about the test
system, whether it's good or

402
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,120
not, that is cheating.
And the reason it's cheating is

403
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,280
not every child gets that as
soon as the level, as soon as

404
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,720
they're sorry the playing field
is not level, then there's an

405
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:49,440
imbalance.
And that's.

406
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:50,720
Cheating, it's not standardised
anymore, is it?

407
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,040
That's the point.
It's not standardised if there's

408
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,920
not standard practise going on
across the board in every layer

409
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,720
of this of the testing process.
So yeah.

410
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,760
And and like you said, the mark
scheme accounts for that like

411
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,320
it's the mark scheme isn't 100%.
You have to get all of it right

412
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,240
the.
Mark scheme or like.

413
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,960
Mark, sorry, like the past marks
stuff, it obviously takes into

414
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,800
account the fact that people
aren't 100% accurate at all

415
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,200
times.
And obviously children will

416
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,880
sometimes make mistakes.
So yeah, as soon as you're

417
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,560
giving that leg up, you're
you're going against the system,

418
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,280
the system, you're cheating.
But it's a tricky one.

419
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,680
Like I think it's really
interesting because I think the

420
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,760
point that does prevail from
that that I see online I've

421
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,840
talked to people about all the
time is not that point you just

422
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,000
made, which is very valid.
It's always, yeah, but the kid

423
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,440
can do it.
And this is their chance to show

424
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:32,760
they can do it.
And now it's going to go down.

425
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,200
They can't do this thing that I
know they can do.

426
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,560
And we've spent six years
teaching them up to this point.

427
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,000
And they've got one question on
apostrophes.

428
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,560
And I know they can do it.
And now it's now it looks like

429
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:41,880
they can't.
And the gap analysis is going to

430
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,960
say they can't do it.
Yeah, well, that that that is.

431
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,560
So the gap analysis saying they
can't do it all the way up until

432
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,880
the SAT, that's useful
information still, because I'd

433
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,720
be saying to the child, look,
you keep getting this question

434
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:52,720
wrong.
I know you understand it.

435
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,240
What's going on.
You can dive into it and help

436
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,000
them.
When it comes to the SAT's,

437
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,120
right, you don't need gap
analysis for it's an assessment

438
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:00,440
at that point.
It's like an end point.

439
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:01,960
It's like just seeing what you
can do from there.

440
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,079
Obviously as you move on to
secondary school, you're gonna

441
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:06,280
recap stuff again and fill gaps,
obviously.

442
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,599
But from the school's point of
view, it's like, well, do you

443
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:10,800
know what, in this situation,
they got it wrong.

444
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,880
That to me, what you're
explaining there is a really

445
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:18,240
good solid argument as to why
the SAT are, are, are failed to,

446
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,440
you know, give an accurate
representation all the time.

447
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,480
It's, it's completely
legitimate.

448
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,319
And when I'm talking to someone
about it, I would never say, Oh,

449
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,200
that's not, that's pointless.
What you're talking about.

450
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,680
Say no, that's, that's a really
good point.

451
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,960
And that's a discussion about
whether the SAT should be used

452
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,240
in, in any way to have a bar,
whatever you want to talk about.

453
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,440
But I'm, I'm literally just
saying that though, in this

454
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,960
system that we do have, which is
when children at the end of year

455
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,680
6 sit key stage 2 SAT to see how
they get on for the curriculum

456
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,240
for key stage 2, giving some
children a leg up and others not

457
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,040
is wrong.
And we should have a

458
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,760
standardised system explain and
look at the flaws afterwards and

459
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,680
say, well, actually this child,
way more questions that they

460
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,320
could do, they got wrong
compared to this child.

461
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,640
That's a different conversation.
But we have to have

462
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,320
standardisation somewhere
because they'll be in another

463
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,480
school.
A child who got the same number

464
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,000
of silly mistakes as the other
child, but one of them got a

465
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,040
little prod and a little, I'm
going to read this question to

466
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:10,800
you.
I'll try that again.

467
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,040
The other child didn't.
So now they've got different

468
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:14,160
scores despite being in the
same.

469
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,400
So all you're doing is just
pushing around and manipulating

470
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,920
where children get their leg up
or not and adding extra

471
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,080
implications of, OK, this whole
thing doesn't work.

472
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,320
True, it doesn't.
So we need to minimise that as

473
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,360
the adults.
Like it's, I hate it because I

474
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:32,160
know it happens and I know I
know it happens for lots of

475
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:33,640
reasons.
People already don't like the

476
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,240
sats necessarily, right?
And and if there's and the only

477
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,240
kind of purpose for sats, you'd
be like, oh, at least we've got

478
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,840
this comparative data is also
being undermined by this sort of

479
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:42,960
stuff.
And it's sort of like, Oh my

480
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,760
God, like you, ironically, it is
making sats completely

481
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,120
pointless.
And like people, I understand

482
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:49,600
why people hate it more.
It's like you're also

483
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,280
contributing to why we hate it
because you're not, you're

484
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,520
making it not comparable by
unstandardizing the standardised

485
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,440
process.
So it's all like a vicious

486
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,040
cycle.
I think so with this person then

487
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,680
like, like what what I didn't,
what's your advice?

488
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,320
Because you know, at the end of
the day, they're basically

489
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,280
saying what do I do?
Because I'm in this situation

490
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,600
right now where the the head
teachers basically pressuring us

491
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,680
to do things that are, are
cheating, whether they're low

492
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,200
stakes cheating or big cheating,
things like is irrelevant.

493
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,760
Really.
What?

494
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,840
What do they do that do they
risk their risk, their job for

495
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:17,160
this?
I, I, I with me.

496
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,280
And you've had different
thoughts about this because

497
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,520
you've been more sympathetic in
terms of just kind of doing what

498
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,440
you're told to do.
Yeah.

499
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,960
And I really truly think that
you should not compromise

500
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,480
yourself in any way.
If anyone's given you pressure

501
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,480
on the top down, if they
continue that pressure after you

502
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,440
refuse, maybe there's one thing
to say, going to them and

503
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:37,480
saying, I'm not going to do
that.

504
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,560
If other people do, you're like,
well, I've washed my hands a

505
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,240
bit.
I'm not going to do it, though.

506
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:42,760
Everyone else is fine, OK,
whatever.

507
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,240
I personally would wash my hands
a bit and say no.

508
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,600
And I'd say you can't cheat.
And if they say, well, I'm going

509
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,640
to, I'd say, well, you can't.
I'd push it to unions, to

510
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,040
governors and keep going.
I personally would do.

511
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,600
That even at the detriment to
potentially your own career in

512
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,400
terms of they might be spiteful,
they might be toxic people who

513
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,720
were actively out of their way
to damage your career

514
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,880
spitefully.
Every single conversation I

515
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,560
have, I'd have recorded, or I'd
have a paper trail or an e-mail

516
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,240
trail and I'll just say like,
okay, if you want to be spiteful

517
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,720
and give me a bad Rep from this
or do a reference that's awful

518
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,400
afterwards, I'll press play on
this record where you say I'm

519
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,760
going to cheat and I say no and
I won't.

520
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,520
Do it if you give me 10 grand
better blackmailing as well.

521
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,040
I think I get it.
But I think the only thing, the

522
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,120
reason I sympathise, I think is
because that is a very high

523
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,960
stress, anxiety inducing
situation for you as a person.

524
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:35,800
Some people would deal with
that.

525
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,760
They're like, whatever, I've got
the moral high ground here.

526
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:38,840
I'm doing the right thing, I
don't care.

527
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,080
I won't lose sleep over it.
A lot of people would be like, I

528
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,160
could not deal with the stress
of having to do all that and

529
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,960
maybe making a mistake.
I forgot to record that one

530
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:47,720
thing.
Now they've got this thing

531
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:48,440
against me.
Yeah, sure.

532
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,160
I just like for some people, I
think they would just be like,

533
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,800
oh man, I know this is bad, but
I the turmoil of doing

534
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,520
everything you just said here is
I would, I'll just say yeah, OK,

535
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,080
nod along.
I, I can, I genuinely completely

536
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,440
understand that and I wouldn't
want to.

537
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,680
I, I, I feel bad if what I'm
saying makes those people feel

538
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:05,720
even worse, right?
Yeah.

539
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,760
But I've got like, the injustice
of it.

540
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,080
I can't cope with personally.
I'm talking about my personal

541
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,200
self now.
I can't deal with the fact that

542
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,120
because it's awkward or high
stakes for me, that the person

543
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:16,880
putting pressure on me therefore
gets away with it.

544
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,200
Yeah.
Because they know they're in a

545
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,680
position of power where they can
hang the job over my head.

546
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,400
It would make me even more want
to go against what they're

547
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,720
doing.
So you start low stakes and just

548
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,160
be like, well, I'm not going to
cheat guys, sorry.

549
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:28,480
I'm not.
I'm not going to go out to a kid

550
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,440
and just read a question
unprompted that I know they've

551
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,960
got wrong that the child then
goes, Oh yeah, obviously, OK,

552
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,080
let me fix it because it is
cheating.

553
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,480
Like maybe you're like, or not.
You might come to me and say

554
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,960
genuinely, there might be some
people who come to me and say

555
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,960
it's OK to cheat a bit because
of this and this.

556
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,440
So yeah, it's fine or whatever.
Okay, at least I can have a

557
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,520
conversation with you then.
At least you think cheating is

558
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:47,680
right.
The thing that winds me up is

559
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:48,920
people who suggest this isn't
cheating.

560
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,040
Yeah, that's they pretend.
They almost annoy me even more

561
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,240
because I'm just like, please
accept what you're doing is is

562
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:54,960
cheating.
You can say that it's fine

563
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,960
wherever you want.
You can try and justify it.

564
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,840
You can have arguments for it,
but if we're not even gonna be

565
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,560
on the same level of like, you
admitting that she's cheating,

566
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,520
yeah, then I can't even discuss
anything with you.

567
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,720
What's the point?
So funnily enough, people who

568
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,360
say they're cheating, at least I
can talk to them and be like,

569
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:10,120
well you shouldn't do that
because of this reason.

570
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:11,160
Yeah, yeah.
But it's the middle.

571
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,320
Ground.
Oh, no, no, it's not.

572
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:13,960
It's not.
It's just giving Jimmy a bit

573
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,120
about gets anxious about tests
like don't use that against me.

574
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,800
I'm not saying kids don't get
anxious or we shouldn't look

575
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,240
after them or this is a good
process.

576
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,040
I'm just saying we can't cheat.
There are quite a lot of

577
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,720
processes in place as well for
children in terms of like

578
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,000
readers and prompts and things
like there are lots of things in

579
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,320
there having separate rooms that
can help those like legitimately

580
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,720
as well.
It's not like the, it's not like

581
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,600
the system's completely stripped
back where none of these

582
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,880
children can possibly get any
help when they're just anxious

583
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,560
or whatever.
So like people can just, you

584
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,480
know, use those.
I remember the last thing I'll

585
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,800
say on this.
Move on to new questions.

586
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,040
I remember a long, long time ago
in my career, it might have even

587
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,480
be my first SATS, maybe my
second SATS in a different

588
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,200
school.
I remember having read through

589
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,720
the rules and the administration
guidance and even little things

590
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,160
that I don't even class this as
cheating, but it's just a case

591
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,080
of people just not knowing what
the exact guidance is, right?

592
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,800
People didn't know that you had
to like some of the TA's, sorry

593
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,800
in the room didn't know that you
had to like stand to the side of

594
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,880
the room and wait.
You couldn't like you couldn't

595
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,680
just sort of wander around
thinking because they were doing

596
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,520
legitimately just thinking.
I'll just wander around because

597
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,880
then if someone needs me, like
I'm closer at a given point.

598
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,440
But the rule said, like, you
have to, you have to stay at the

599
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,520
side of the room and basically
not, not like, imply that you're

600
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,840
ready to give help.
That's really silly.

601
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,400
But you have to wait for the
children to have to put their

602
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,200
hand up and call you over.
You can't just sort of walk

603
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,320
around and hope that you're sort
of smiling at them and then

604
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:25,840
thinking, oh, they need help.
I'm smiling now.

605
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,160
So they'll, they'll, they'll get
it.

606
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,240
It's just silly little things
like that.

607
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,440
I remember saying to them, and
then you have to stay at the

608
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,640
side of the room.
And they were looking at me

609
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:32,840
like, perplexed.
They've been doing this for

610
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,360
years.
Like, why?

611
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:36,320
I'm just going.
I'm not helping.

612
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,960
I'm just walking around.
Yeah, but it says not to.

613
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,120
It's not standardised.
We don't all do the same thing.

614
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,800
We have to, but we have to stand
at the side of the room.

615
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,240
Yeah.
So I'm gonna stand here and if a

616
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,920
child looks at me, put the hand
up, I'll go over to them.

617
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,720
I'm not gonna go over to them.
Yeah, Before that, I can imagine

618
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,280
a lot of people listen to that
and that's probably, that's as

619
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,000
far as you can probably go,
right.

620
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,080
But at the end of the day, I
still just think that, you know,

621
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:58,960
there might be someone replied
to that saying what does it

622
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,480
matter?
The kids need help, need help.

623
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:01,720
What does it matter if you're
next to them?

624
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,920
And what if they don't know?
What if they don't know then

625
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,600
something should have been put
in place beforehand.

626
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,480
This isn't new information.
This is just will for ignorance.

627
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,920
Until then, like look, I, I'm I
can only talk about my own

628
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,120
personal opinion.
I think you should follow the

629
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:16,480
guidance.
Yep.

630
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,080
To me it's as simple as that.
And if someone says if, but they

631
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,640
might have a really good reason
and explain why it doesn't

632
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,040
matter.
But my point is just whether we

633
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,200
think it matters or not, there's
a system in place and there are

634
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,400
rules in place.
Just follow them.

635
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,480
Just follow the rules.
Just it's as simple as that.

636
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,040
And if a kid gets fewer months,
you know what?

637
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,800
We should maybe do not have it
on such a pedestal that this is

638
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:38,960
the most important thing in the
world.

639
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,920
Oh, the kid just missed out
unexpected because of that.

640
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,280
So.
Maybe we can then talk about how

641
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,120
we react to this because we all
understand this is completely

642
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:50,480
pointless and only those people
who broke the rules and cheated

643
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,200
and give them a little nudge in
the shoulder actually end up

644
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,920
looking like they've done their
job in the 1st place across the

645
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,440
whole year.
Then the other schools that

646
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,200
don't do that get pointed out
and saying why isn't your kid

647
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,280
expected?
Who cares?

648
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,040
The only difference here is that
you maybe just give them a

649
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,520
little bit of a leg up or not.
Oh, and oh woe is me, maybe a

650
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,280
kid just didn't get expected,
that's it.

651
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,760
OK, do you know what I mean?
Like, there's so many levels to

652
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,920
this where one of the biggest
driving forces as to why this

653
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,800
happened in the 1st place is
such worry and anxious as well.

654
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,800
What need the big results?
Need the best things.

655
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:21,680
Have you done the best for the
kids?

656
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,920
Yeah.
Have you been involved as a

657
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,800
leadership team across the whole
year and supporting your team

658
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,320
and giving the kids the best
chance they can?

659
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,120
Yeah.
Have you done everything within

660
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:31,040
your power to make sure these
kids understand as much as

661
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,040
possible?
Yeah.

662
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,720
Have you created well-rounded
human beings who are polite and

663
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,120
kind and nice?
Yeah, this exam is one small

664
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:40,680
thing.
Yeah, so don't be pushed into

665
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,280
ruining your integrity or
cheating on something because

666
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,600
you're so worried about how it
might look.

667
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,440
Chill out, Yeah?
I I like that last bit there.

668
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,520
Like, have you done your best?
Yeah.

669
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:50,120
Cool.
Then what will be.

670
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:50,680
Will be.
Yeah.

671
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:51,760
That's it.
That's the end of it, isn't it?

672
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:52,920
Yeah.
You've done everything you can.

673
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:53,960
Well done.
That's the.

674
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,240
I'm celebrating that bit.
Yeah.

675
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:55,960
What will be?
What?

676
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,320
This.
This is now just to give us an

677
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,160
assessment point, a bit of
diagnostics until we know

678
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,920
exactly where they are.
But you've done everything you

679
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:01,400
can.
Thank you.

680
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,120
Thank you, teacher.
Thank you, school, for doing

681
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:04,120
everything you can for these
kids.

682
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:05,280
That's the only thing that
matters.

683
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,480
And if it wasn't enough, we'll
any decent school will know that

684
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,320
before the SAT results come in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

685
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,240
There's no, there is.
I'm sorry.

686
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,520
There is not a school in
existence where the SAT results

687
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,280
come in at the end of the year,
right?

688
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,360
Where they see their below and
they go, what, We were doing

689
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:22,920
something wrong.
That's your fault.

690
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,560
You've waited nine months to
make this decision based on the

691
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,320
outcomes of one test.
Yeah.

692
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:30,760
Nip it in the bud early.
Give support, help your team.

693
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,560
Because I can guarantee you the
majority of teachers, especially

694
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,200
in year 6, are doing everything
they can for these kids.

695
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,720
Yeah.
So if there's an issue, get it

696
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,400
early.
Don't wait until the results.

697
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,080
And we should have cheated more,
Should we?

698
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,520
No.
Honestly.

699
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,480
Yeah, very good, very good.
It's quite funny just that

700
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,320
hearing you say we should just
follow the guidance and do what

701
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,640
we're told basically because
just hearing you say that's

702
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,720
quite funny because a lot of the
lot of situations would say,

703
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,120
well, actually, no, challenge
the status quo, challenge

704
00:26:58,120 --> 00:26:59,320
things.
Don't, don't do that.

705
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,840
Say no, refuse to do things.
But in this situation, it is

706
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,280
because I know where you're
coming from.

707
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,000
It is different if we're all
agreeing to do the SAT, you can

708
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,680
have an opinion on it
separately, right?

709
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,600
Whether you think this is good.
But when we're doing it, we've

710
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,600
got to do the SAS.
We might as well at least make

711
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,560
it standardised so everyone, if
we can all just follow the

712
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,920
rules, even if we hate them,
it's happening anyway.

713
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,880
So let's just at least try and
make the the data comparable or

714
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,480
something and get useful out of
it, you know?

715
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,760
But yeah, it's funny.
Anyway, next question.

716
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,120
Nice short one.
Thoughts on reserved parking for

717
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,760
the leadership team?
That's a really funny one, I

718
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:34,440
think.
Have we ever had?

719
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,920
Have you ever seen reserved
parking sales?

720
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,760
Have we?
Always, in every school I've

721
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,560
been in, there's been, you know,
unwritten, reserved parking for

722
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:42,680
everyone.
Yeah, exactly.

723
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,200
That's Myspace.
That's where I go.

724
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,640
You're in Myspace.
Yeah.

725
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,800
I used to get like, genuinely,
like, my heart would drop a bit

726
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,600
when someone was in Myspace.
But what?

727
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,280
That's where I parked.
Same.

728
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,360
Why are you here?
And the head did always park in

729
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:55,640
the same place.
Yeah, which was always the

730
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,600
closest to the door and there
was a bit of a hierarchy going

731
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,680
on really, wasn't there you?
Actually think so, yeah, that

732
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,040
head and.
Over the head has really come

733
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,840
around.
Then we had the office staff

734
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,600
come around.
But I never, ever, ever, ever,

735
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,880
ever once thought, oh, that
sounds well, I see what's going

736
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,280
on there because it wasn't
actually reserved.

737
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,800
Like, jokes aside, I could have
parked there.

738
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,480
Yeah.
I could have parked also

739
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,160
somewhere else and there wasn't
like a big, you know, reserved

740
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,680
for leadership.
I think that's too far.

741
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:21,320
Me too.
Yes.

742
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:22,800
But that's kind of what I want
to get to.

743
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,600
Do you think that is too far in
any school?

744
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,320
I think so.
I think, I think when you just

745
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,640
like when like leadership team,
like when there's just three,

746
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,800
let's say in a school of like 40
staff, if just three have like

747
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,120
the closest parking spaces, have
a literal sign reserved for head

748
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,600
teacher, I'd be like.
Come.

749
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,880
Yeah, it's just something like.
Do we not all need to get to

750
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,920
work?
Yeah, You need to get to work

751
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:43,680
more than I do.
Yeah.

752
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:44,600
Yeah, Yeah.
Oh, Oh.

753
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,320
But then we have to make sure
there's always a space for them.

754
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,280
Do you have to make sure there's
always a space for me?

755
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,960
Yeah, Who also works in this
building?

756
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,080
The kids I'm teaching the if
anything, I I'm more, it's more

757
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,000
important that I am punctual and
on time with the kids.

758
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,720
Like the head teacher can walk a
few minutes later.

759
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:58,720
That'd be all right.
I can't.

760
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,600
I can't.
There's only two explanations

761
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,200
for it. 1 is like it's just pure
status, which I think is cringy.

762
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,400
Yeah.
Or there isn't enough spaces and

763
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,440
you're just making sure those
people get space, in which case

764
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,840
I don't think they're at the top
of the list.

765
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,520
No, I agree, No one is.
Genuinely.

766
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,960
And I'm not like the site
manager needs a space more than

767
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,080
anyone.
Yeah, yeah, because they're

768
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,200
there, you know what I mean?
Like they're there in the first

769
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,120
get in and do the actual and get
the school ready for.

770
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,480
The space and do that they're
there first.

771
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:22,080
That's good.
Point.

772
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,120
All right, they can bark on the
on the deputy headwind.

773
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,120
Yeah.
I agree though, like I can't.

774
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,920
I was trying to think of, I was
trying to like role play my head

775
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,560
of like is there any way to
justify needing that space

776
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,440
that's not just status and I
don't think I don't think there

777
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:34,560
is.
I'd be interested if anyone's

778
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,320
thinking of something like no,
no, This is why my head teachers

779
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,920
got this reserve space for this
good reason.

780
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,080
Yeah, please let me know
because.

781
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:41,720
I oh, maybe it's because they're
a knob head.

782
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,000
Oh good, me.
The knob head.

783
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,520
Space knob head space.
Yeah, change it.

784
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,240
B Yeah, change the sign and
every, every leader I've worked

785
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,000
with would cringe if that was
introduced.

786
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,840
Yeah.
So you're thinking about like in

787
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,560
my old school, the head teacher,
the assistant head.

788
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,160
Yeah.
If they came in one day and saw

789
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,400
reserved for, they'd be the
first one to take it.

790
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:58,800
We should.
I can't believe we didn't do

791
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,800
that as a prank.
We should have one year like we

792
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,200
should have got like bought like
a plaque and said we've all

793
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,200
pulled together for your
birthday and we've got you this

794
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,920
It's reserved for head teacher.
We're going to put it down here.

795
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,200
We're.
Going to put it in the space

796
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,520
that you always park in anyway.
He would.

797
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,760
Have been like oh he would have
absolutely cringed.

798
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,880
Say, my thoughts on reserve
parking are, I think it's odd,

799
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,600
yeah, yeah.
And actually a bit of that

800
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,240
maybe.
That's the next One tree, all

801
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:24,360
this stuff up our street.
Wouldn't have been anything to

802
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,160
know we're from here party.
Here's what my head Nonsense.

803
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,800
Really.
Up our sleeve, up our Ave and

804
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,680
then I got up our street.
That's what that's the thought

805
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:32,720
process I went through.
Nonsense.

806
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:33,720
What?
Else can you be up?

807
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,960
Yeah.
I don't know if you're an ass.

808
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,040
I don't know, maybe.
That's right.

809
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,440
I was kind of into, yeah.
Right, here we go.

810
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,920
What is the best math scheme of
work?

811
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,800
What's the worst math scheme?
Or should maths be taught by

812
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,360
teachers who have planned it
themselves?

813
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:46,880
I'm gonna sidetrack that
question.

814
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,040
What's the best of ways I think
a scheme is as good as the

815
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,560
person using it?
Yeah, but there is a point where

816
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,880
a scheme becomes bad.
So let let me qualify this NCTM.

817
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,520
Small steps, Very good.
White Rose maths, small steps

818
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:01,840
for the curriculum, I think very
good.

819
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,600
Lots of other ones that I'm not
going to name right now that I

820
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,840
know are also good, but some
that I don't think are that

821
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,960
amazing, Right?
So all I'm going to say here is

822
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,760
I'm not going to say the best or
the worst, but I'm going to nip

823
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,800
now to the next question, which
is should maths be taught by

824
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,160
teachers who've planned it
themselves?

825
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,600
No.
That's the end of.

826
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,000
It I think, like I said, a
scheme of work is also only as

827
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,080
good as the person delivering
it.

828
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,200
Yeah, I think we are very clear.
We use White Rose, for example,

829
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,880
in our school.
I think we're very clear to

830
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,560
teachers that we wanted to nip
in the bud straight away when

831
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,360
people would come and ask us,
oh, it's got this order.

832
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,680
I think I'm thinking of just
doing this first though, because

833
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,200
in my opinion it's better for my
kids or I think that that flows

834
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,240
better for what I'm doing.
Nip that in the bud.

835
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,080
Make the decisions yourself.
Straight away did you nip it in

836
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,800
the bud?
Yeah, I need to nip that in the

837
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,320
bud up my sleeve and up my Ave.
Up the avenue, yeah.

838
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,600
But you say to them straight
away, you know, if you're the,

839
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,240
you are.
Well, not if you are the

840
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,160
professional in the room.
And if you think that's better

841
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,400
for your children, you don't
have to come and ask me about

842
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,720
it.
This is the coverage that we've

843
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,840
got and you can make those small
changes.

844
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,400
I went on White Rose training
about adaptive teaching because

845
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:09,600
it was something big in our
school.

846
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,120
You and I have to have a
training on it for years

847
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,440
beforehand.
And this course came up and we

848
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,120
thought, do you know what?
Let's just one of us go on it

849
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,560
and just see if we're doing the
right thing.

850
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,400
We went there and the literal
people who run that White Rose

851
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,880
company were saying, please
don't just pick up this scheme

852
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:23,960
and just put it in front of the
kids.

853
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,280
And that's that.
The best use of it, the scheme

854
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,280
is that you adapt it.
It's one of the teacher

855
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,680
standards to adapt.
And This is why I get my

856
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,840
knickers in A twist when people
get on their high horse and say

857
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,720
things like, well, who do you
think you are changing a scheme

858
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,360
of work?
We bought the scheme of work

859
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,800
because the pedagogy is really
good and we need to make sure

860
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,400
that everyone's want to get
exactly slide by slide, minute

861
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:46,520
by minute in every single
classroom.

862
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,400
If I walk into a class here, I
should see them on the same

863
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,880
thing as someone else.
Get out of yourself, what are

864
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,320
you talking about?
Complete nonsense.

865
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,160
Terrible teaching.
Adapt to your kids is one of the

866
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,160
biggest parts of being a
teacher, and that involves

867
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,240
adapting the scheme of work you
get in front.

868
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,960
Of you in the cases of teachers
who are less confident perhaps

869
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,400
teaching maths or even just
they're just maybe new and that

870
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,120
they haven't got the experience
yet and that's the reason they

871
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,960
don't feel confident is not that
they're bad at teaching math,

872
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,240
they just haven't had that
experience yet.

873
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,520
In those situations, though, do
not think schemes are like a

874
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,280
godsend, like, because they can
just follow them.

875
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,280
And realistically, the scheme is
going to probably guarantee at

876
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,520
least a baseline minimum that is
maybe better, And it sounds

877
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,120
really hard, but maybe better
than if that teacher didn't have

878
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,000
a scheme at all because they're
not yet confident they're not

879
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,000
feeling it.
Yeah. 100% I just go to qualify

880
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,760
this by saying I don't think
schemes are bad.

881
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,160
My whole point of what I'm
saying is I think the poor

882
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,080
implementation of schemes is bad
right?

883
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,160
I think the indoctrination from
top down saying everything has

884
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,680
to look the same all the time.
It's just goes against every

885
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,480
principal I have as a teacher
ever, and I want people to

886
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,360
change stuff.
But start off with the scheme

887
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,240
and you're absolutely right.
If you're less confident or

888
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,520
newer, use the scheme.
It's there for a reason.

889
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,320
And as you build confidence and
experience and get to know your

890
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,520
kids and a fed confidence, I
hope by mass leads or by leaders

891
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,560
to say if you need to go off off
piece golf piece, golf script.

892
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,120
Do you think then you that's the
only way I got better at it.

893
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,040
That's the only way I literally
got better at it was by people

894
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,679
saying to me, oh good, yeah,
trust yourself.

895
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:15,320
Yeah, we, we almost got left
alone in my old school with

896
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,280
maths in the best way, because I
just, why would I tell you what

897
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,320
to do?
You're the person who tell me

898
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,520
what to do and I'm not even in
this room.

899
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,400
So I think it's really
important.

900
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,920
I think schemes are good, like
you said, for those less

901
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,840
confident.
I think it is a godsend because

902
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,560
it gives you that starting point
and you can go from there and

903
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:31,280
tweak as you go.
We've.

904
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:32,800
Had a lot of questions over the
years as well.

905
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,120
I've seen that over the years,
probably over the last since

906
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,080
September, since we started
doing Q&A, I had to think about.

907
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,400
That a lot of questions over the
over the .5 years.

908
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,320
Five years when we've been doing
this Q&A, I just remember seeing

909
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,520
lots of times the same sort
thinking basically people saying

910
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,560
should I use NCTM, Should I use
White Rose like when they and I

911
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,800
feel like those two schemes get
thrown around a lot.

912
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,800
And my answer is basically very
similar to yours, which is it's

913
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,960
about the implementation.
You can obviously make both

914
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,600
work.
Like, like people often say,

915
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,360
which one's better?
It's a nonsense question.

916
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,480
I don't know.
I'd need to understand every

917
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,160
single thing about your school
and your teachers and your

918
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,000
children like to even remotely
try to answer that.

919
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,280
Just take one that you think is
appropriate for your school and

920
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,320
the way you implement it is is
what will have 99.9% of the

921
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,040
impact, not the scheme itself.
Like, they're both great.

922
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:17,360
Do you?
Know what I've heard in general

923
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,920
from a lot of I've spoken a lot
and I've seen the schemes.

924
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,080
I don't necessarily disagree of
any of this, but the general

925
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,720
theme is that they're both good
that NCTM goes into way more

926
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:30,400
granular detail about stuff, but
can be quite overwhelming to

927
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,760
read and and take in and
understand and then implement as

928
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,440
a leader and get it across to
your whole team to be on the

929
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,040
same page efficiently sort of
thing.

930
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,240
Yeah, Whereas White Rose, you
can do it more efficiently, but

931
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:42,080
maybe doesn't go into those
tiny, tiny, tiny details and and

932
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,560
really intricate steps like NCTM
ready to progress those.

933
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,920
I don't think either of that
have slight on either of them by

934
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,480
the way.
I think they can both be used

935
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,840
really well and and really help
children develop their maths,

936
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,760
math skills.
So I completely agree with what

937
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,440
you're saying when people ask us
to judge between them.

938
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,760
Like, no, I don't think that.
I actually just refuse the

939
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,640
question in a way because they
both meet my minimum threshold

940
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,120
and that's the way I like to
look at it.

941
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,000
Does it meet the minimum
threshold of quality?

942
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,760
If it does, then there's a
there's a five other questions

943
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,720
we should be asking about what
we do in our school if it

944
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,080
doesn't mean that minimum level
of quality.

945
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,400
Yeah, fair enough.
Do you know what NCTM white rows

946
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,080
are better than cyber schemes
that are out there?

947
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,000
And you know what?
I'd have to look at them and

948
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,440
really, really dive into them.
Exactly.

949
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,920
But do you know what I see a lot
of that's going to be truthful

950
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,240
here go on a lot of people just
just basically ripping off White

951
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:29,720
Rose, small steps, you know,
schemes of learning that they

952
00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:32,800
give out for free, you know,
medium term plans, etcetera.

953
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:36,360
Just basically ripping them off,
changing a few words, maybe

954
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,400
feeling it for a large language
model, changing.

955
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,280
Here's my scheme of work.
Is it?

956
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,760
It's the same thing actually
and.

957
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,720
There is only so many ways, you
know, some people might sit

958
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:46,960
there and come to the same
conclusion, but some people

959
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,400
absolutely do just RIP things
off as well.

960
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,520
So do you know what use one of
the things you know is backed up

961
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,840
by by lots of other schools that
use it and and what you've got

962
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,000
from the past as.
Well, yeah, written by experts

963
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,400
who spent a lot of time like we
can give them a little bit of a

964
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,960
little bit of trust in terms of
like they, there was a lot of

965
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,400
maths experts that spent literal
years writing these schemes like

966
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,160
NCTM and White Rose, so.
If only something was coming

967
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,080
along to help with arithmetic
and just plug in those gaps.

968
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,520
I see a lot of teachers out
there talking about what they do

969
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,720
for arithmetic, especially in
Year 6, to make sure kids get

970
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:20,680
their boost, their Marks and can
understand the processes and

971
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,120
understand the maths and can
actually look at their lessons

972
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:24,840
in general and go through the
curriculum and be really good

973
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,320
problem solvers because they're
really solid with the

974
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,720
foundations.
Just wish there was something

975
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:31,440
out there to do that is there.
Sign up for a free Math 2 demo

976
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,480
down below for your school to
see how we can help you smash

977
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,840
arithmetic fluency, save your
teachers time, and get your kids

978
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,840
better results than ever.
Aligned with the new curriculum,

979
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,400
not all separately.
That's not just about the Sats,

980
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,520
by the way.
That's a really good byproduct,

981
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,320
isn't it?
It's a really good, you know,

982
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,280
effect of what we're doing.
It's about children becoming

983
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,200
really, really fluid at those
basic arithmetic processes.

984
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,000
100%.
Anyway.

985
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,040
Next question, really, I'll do
it.

986
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,440
What is your gut feeling when it
comes to grouping by ability or

987
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,160
not?
Is grouping children by ability

988
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,600
doing more harm than good to
their confidence and progress?

989
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,720
Right.
I like this started with gut

990
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,640
feeling because like if it was
just a second bit, I'd always be

991
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,400
like, I don't, I, I can't
actually answer that question.

992
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,280
Like statistically speaking, I'm
not too sure.

993
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,080
But like gut feeling as a
teacher, you've done it for 10

994
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,240
years, Dylan, or nearly 9
Pathetic.

995
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,520
What do you think?
What, what was your gut feeling

996
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,640
over that time?
Was was it was it harmful to

997
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,880
group kids by ability or?
Not always, not always.

998
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,000
I think it's absolutely
outrageous to suggest that

999
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,520
there's only one way to always
do stuff.

1000
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:26,160
Ever.
Sure.

1001
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,560
In this respect, I think it's
just as soon as someone says to

1002
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,200
me that grouping viability at
all times ever is bad for the

1003
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,920
kids, I almost want to just
laugh them out of the room.

1004
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:36,760
I think that's quite common
though.

1005
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,960
So do I and I want to laugh them
out of the room.

1006
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,200
And I just want to say like, are
you joking?

1007
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,320
Like do you?
Do you really think there's not

1008
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,640
a single situation in your
provision as an educator where

1009
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,240
grouping viability is not the
right thing to do?

1010
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,320
Of course it is.
And now let's flip it on its

1011
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,040
head.
I absolutely love mixing things

1012
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,120
up.
I love mixed ability teaching

1013
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,000
because it allows for children
to work with children they

1014
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,920
wouldn't normally work with.
It allows for maybe children who

1015
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,120
are more proficient to have a go
at explaining stuff at a lower

1016
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,000
level, which is a really, really
good indicator of how you

1017
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,680
understand something.
And you know, quite often when I

1018
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,400
first do that, the children who
are of a higher ability will

1019
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,200
simply just do the process and I
have to explain to them, no, no,

1020
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:19,480
we're, we're going to be the
teacher now.

1021
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,880
We have to explain the process,
not just do it for them.

1022
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,240
We have to explain it.
And I think with good teaching

1023
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:26,600
that can be really, really
powerful for both because I

1024
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,280
think teach children who may be
lower ability do get a lot off

1025
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,640
their colleagues as well in that
respect.

1026
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,600
And it allows them to flourish.
The lower ability children quite

1027
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,600
often will flourish in areas
that maybe if you had streamed

1028
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,080
them into a certain way, you
might have thought, Oh no, I'm

1029
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,760
putting that ceiling in every
aspect because they're always in

1030
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,640
this one group.
And actually sometimes, you know

1031
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,480
what, they really do flourish
and and they feel great about

1032
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,200
themselves because they're
working at different levels and

1033
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,720
different things.
Yeah, I agree.

1034
00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:51,680
There's, there's loads, loads of
pros for mixed, mixed ability

1035
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,480
settings in general.
But I do feel like the narrative

1036
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,240
for my whole career has been
that is the only way to do

1037
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:02,440
things.
And it is absolutely terrible.

1038
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,560
If you stream or you have sets
in your school that is just so

1039
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,840
negative, so bad that you're
doing the children a disservice.

1040
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,000
And I always felt guilty because
I can tell you right now.

1041
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,680
In my whole from my whole
career, there were to some

1042
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,200
capacity, some streaming, some
setting going on, which I always

1043
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,960
felt like was good and necessary
to for me to be able to do my

1044
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,800
job correctly and I consistently
felt bad about it.

1045
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,120
So I did my whole career.
I never didn't feel bad.

1046
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,400
I always thought, oh God, I
better not tell.

1047
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,080
But enough.
I'm speaking to someone really

1048
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,200
massy or high up or whatever.
I better just pretend that I'm

1049
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:34,840
doing mixed ability because
that's the only thing that

1050
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,120
that's how bad I felt about it.
And it's like, if I look back

1051
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,400
now and I'm like, that's
ridiculous.

1052
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,480
Yeah, no setting at all.
Not until they're 12 and in year

1053
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,920
7 and immediately set and
everyone accepts that forever

1054
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:43,920
after.
Yeah, everyone accepts.

1055
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,280
From that point is absolutely
fine.

1056
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,240
Like, come on.
The the biggest argument for me,

1057
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:50,080
and I've probably said it
before, is as simple as this.

1058
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,400
I think the I from the
ideological sense.

1059
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,840
I do generally agree that mixed
ability is better in like most

1060
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,280
cases, the majority at least
right.

1061
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,800
Again, I'm, I'm agreeing with
you that it's not black and

1062
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,120
white.
I can't even even in that

1063
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,160
ideological sense, I can't say
every single situation is better

1064
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,840
than this.
But in the majority, I do think.

1065
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,600
But in reality, when you take
into account every other factor

1066
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,960
that might go into a school,
including just the teacher's

1067
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,480
ability and how long they've
been doing it and their

1068
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,680
experience, everything right and
support and support and yeah,

1069
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,360
literally like all of the things
that could impact a classroom.

1070
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,440
I think in reality, setting and
streaming children or grouping

1071
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,480
viability in any way makes the
teachers life easier so they can

1072
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:29,960
deliver their job and do their
job correctly.

1073
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,600
And I think it gets to a point
right where it flips, where it's

1074
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,920
so difficult to do job correctly
because you're so determined to

1075
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,080
do mixed ability that
hilariously, you do a worse job

1076
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,080
for everyone.
I honestly think that's true.

1077
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,040
Like in in reality.
Because we ignore that bit.

1078
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,840
Give an example of what you're
saying because I think you've

1079
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,120
hit the nail on the head.
And I don't think there's anyone

1080
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:46,440
out there.
Let's say you've got a year 4

1081
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,760
class, right?
And it is, this is, this is

1082
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,160
real.
By the way, before anyone says

1083
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,720
this is a made-up situation,
this is real.

1084
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,560
If I think about a year 4 class
I've had in the past, right

1085
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,600
there is a child in that year,
year 4 class who is working, I'm

1086
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,600
not joking, at reception level,
maths reception level.

1087
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,080
And there is also a child in the
year 4 class who could do

1088
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,600
secondary school maths is that
bright and switched on and just

1089
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,880
understand stuff straight away.
OK.

1090
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,680
You cannot convince me that the
best practise is they're both in

1091
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,200
the same room having the same
maths lesson.

1092
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,200
All the time.
I don't think, yeah, honestly,

1093
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,000
for those two children ever.
Yeah, yeah, I'm not even joking.

1094
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,400
Yeah, I'm not for those two
children I'm talking about ever.

1095
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,960
So what we're saying is when
we're saying mixed ability

1096
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,160
forever, no matter what you are,
you are saying that in that

1097
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,200
situation that they should be in
the same room doing the same

1098
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,880
math lesson and the only
difference should be support.

1099
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,200
A bit scaffolding might give me
a different worksheet.

1100
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,200
OK, yeah, I'll just plan 5
different maths lessons then.

1101
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,120
Because what we're saying is
we're not saying every child

1102
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,400
gets the same maths lesson.
What we're saying is do 5

1103
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,360
different maths lessons and have
them going off doing the same

1104
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,440
thing and somehow the nice
little intricate strand between

1105
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:45,840
them where you can deliver
something at the front

1106
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:47,840
completely.
I'm realistic and I think most

1107
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,000
people will go, well, we don't
mean that.

1108
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,360
We don't mean that obviously
when we say mixed ability.

1109
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,040
OK, so you think we should then
you, you think we should set at

1110
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,640
some level.
So where that line comes into

1111
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,240
play has to be pushed in because
of the reality of the world

1112
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:05,480
we're living in.
You cannot do mixed ability

1113
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,600
teaching without adequate
support in your classroom.

1114
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,320
Exactly.
You've got to have extra hands,

1115
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,440
right?
So for example, take, take this

1116
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,480
example, for instance, another
real example for, for mentary

1117
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:21,320
school form 4, lots of 32
children, 2 teaching assistants

1118
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,920
available for that year, for
that, for that year group for

1119
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,280
that whole year for those four
classes, 2 teaching assistants

1120
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,440
available.
Mixed ability means that you

1121
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,800
have, let's say it's a year five
class, right?

1122
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,640
You have two year five classes,
completely mixed ability, 32

1123
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,240
kids with no adult support, just
you as the teacher at the front.

1124
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,600
Do you really think that that
set up class one?

1125
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,960
No, no support Class 2, no
support, a teaching assistant in

1126
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,440
class 3A teaching a teaching
assistant in class 4, all

1127
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,040
completely mixed.
Do you think, do you honestly

1128
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,000
think that is better for the
children than if we streamed

1129
00:43:55,000 --> 00:44:00,480
this had the top X percent of
achievers with those with with

1130
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,240
two classes with no support and
then having a a focus group

1131
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:07,280
lower down with more support for
those children who might need

1132
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,200
it?
Yeah, you might say neither are

1133
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,360
ideal, but which one do you?
Which one is better?

1134
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,720
Having no support in reality?
Yeah.

1135
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:19,040
In reality, having no support
whatsoever in a completely mixed

1136
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,000
year five class with the top
mathematicians and the lowest

1137
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,200
mathematicians or having no
support whatsoever with just the

1138
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,960
top mathematicians and giving
all your support to the children

1139
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,480
who are low down like in like in
reality out of those two

1140
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,400
options.
Yeah.

1141
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,040
Come on, am I wrong?
I think it's obvious, but the

1142
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:36,720
what?
OK, you can ask this because

1143
00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:38,480
it's just to show that you
obviously are thinking this.

1144
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,640
What's the, what's the downside?
What's the con of that?

1145
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,760
Completely because then you I
hate, I hate the suggestion that

1146
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,480
higher ability children don't
need extra support.

1147
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,800
I actually I personally don't
like that at all because I think

1148
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,560
higher ability children should
deserve just as much support as

1149
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:53,920
anyone in terms of pushing them
on.

1150
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,880
But it's easier to push a higher
child on on your own as a

1151
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,800
teacher than it is to support a
child who doesn't understand

1152
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,720
something in the first place.
So I'm just saying, and this is

1153
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:05,880
not ideal, do you want to be an
ideal situation?

1154
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:08,240
All four are mixed, and there's
two teaching assistants in each

1155
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:09,640
classroom.
Yeah, that's ideal.

1156
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,040
But that's not going to happen.
Yeah, exactly right.

1157
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:12,360
The the ideological sense,
right.

1158
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,200
It comes back in.
I get why people say that

1159
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:15,880
because that is great.
That would be great, but it

1160
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:17,880
doesn't happen in reality.
Completely so it doesn't and and

1161
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,440
the cons again are you still got
32 kids in your classroom like I

1162
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,280
I don't think there's I mean
there's I still don't think Eva

1163
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,280
are good.
Yeah, I I just think that if

1164
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,080
we're in the real world, you
have to make decisions.

1165
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,640
What do you say to the people
that say like going back, I

1166
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,280
guess going going back to this
question really is grouping

1167
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,280
children by ability doing more
harm than good to have

1168
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,680
confidence and progress.
So those that what the argument

1169
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,440
normally is, the children that
are lower on lower down in the

1170
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,000
sort of sets or whatever it is,
they know that they're in the

1171
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,680
low sets, whether they've been
told you can do anything in the

1172
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,480
world like kids, kids aren't
silly, like you can do anything

1173
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,520
in the world to disguise it.
They will work out that they're

1174
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,080
in the bottom set or whatever it
is and it and it, you know,

1175
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,640
harms their confidence and then
they become even more disengaged

1176
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:57,280
with the subject.
Yeah.

1177
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,400
Do you think that's true?
And do you does that change your

1178
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:00,480
opinion at all?
It is.

1179
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,440
It's also down to the teacher,
right?

1180
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,320
I can say from my literal
career, you know my career, I

1181
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,400
spent the first, the first two
years of my career, I did what

1182
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,080
we called set one top set of
anyone.

1183
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:13,320
We're not talking to kids in the
house.

1184
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,160
So I don't need to get offended
by me saying top set.

1185
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,440
You know what I mean when I say
top set.

1186
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:17,920
I did top set year 4 for two
years.

1187
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,000
Those kids were flying.
It was just me and 32 kids in

1188
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,280
the classroom and I could
support either ones who didn't

1189
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,800
quite get something.
Sometimes I could just support

1190
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,200
them and help them.
The rest were flying off.

1191
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,760
They, they, it was amazing.
They all did so well.

1192
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,400
The results were unbelievable.
Like they just, they were so

1193
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,400
good.
And then for every year after

1194
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,480
that, for the next 7 or 8 years
of my career, I worked with

1195
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:37,800
children who were struggling
with maths.

1196
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,280
And I loved it.
I loved it so much.

1197
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,120
And there were slightly smaller
groups.

1198
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,240
It was me in the room with a
teaching assistant often.

1199
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,840
And in the other rooms maybe
there'd be higher sets, more

1200
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,040
children in the room, less
support, and they'd be cracking

1201
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,200
on the children in my room.
If you were to actually ask

1202
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,680
them, right, A bunch of them
would understand that they're

1203
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,760
in, oh, I'm in Mr Price's maths
class.

1204
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,160
They would, they would
understand the implication of

1205
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,080
that.
Yeah, there was some children

1206
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,920
who wouldn't.
OK, that's the first thing.

1207
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,240
Not everyone knows all the time.
Yeah, sure.

1208
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:07,840
But some children did.
And you know what?

1209
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,920
It didn't matter because as the
teacher, it was my job to

1210
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,040
explain to them that we're in
this because we're unbelievable

1211
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,240
mathematicians.
I didn't give them a second to

1212
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:17,160
think though about it.
Maths.

1213
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,800
I gave them as much confidence
as I possibly could.

1214
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,640
I made maths a fun thing, I made
it enjoyable.

1215
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,680
I pitched it at the right level
where they found it easy enough

1216
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,120
to do sometimes, but hard enough
to push themselves and still

1217
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,160
feel successful.
It was down to me to create this

1218
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,760
environment where the kids
thrived and I loved it and they

1219
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,480
loved it.
The amount of times we'd get to

1220
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,440
parents evening, even a month in
and the parents would be saying

1221
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,200
he loves maths now.
He loves maths.

1222
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,000
Yeah, because he's got a small
room with just me and an

1223
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,640
assistant and we can make it
good.

1224
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,640
We can make make them feel good.
You can curate that.

1225
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,840
It doesn't have to be all lower
automatically.

1226
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:52,680
Bad children, bad confidence,
awful.

1227
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,600
Be in a classroom with me, do it
with me.

1228
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,000
These kids loved it and they got
way better at maths and at the

1229
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,040
end of the year, do you know
what we still did in that?

1230
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,200
We still covered the curriculum.
I never put a ceiling on them.

1231
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,080
We did the whole curriculum.
We just moved maybe at a slower

1232
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,280
pace.
We didn't maybe go as deep

1233
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,000
sometimes, Sometimes we did.
And those kids, I allowed them

1234
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,920
to do that.
I was never putting shackles on

1235
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,280
them at all.
And the kids loved maths and

1236
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,560
they got better at maths and
they spent more time on the

1237
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,520
foundations and the basics and
the understanding and that let

1238
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,400
them fly.
And then they did better and I

1239
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,480
loved it.
And I can't deal with anyone

1240
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,760
telling me that's bad.
Yeah, I can't deal with it.

1241
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,080
It's just not bad.
But their confidence was they

1242
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:31,640
they found out they were in the
lower set.

1243
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:32,880
Yeah.
Oh, oh, you've made-up the

1244
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,600
situation, have you, in your
head where these kids are now

1245
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,280
less confident?
Yeah, because I did it and they

1246
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:38,680
got more confident.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1247
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:40,640
So you're making that.
You're making that up.

1248
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,880
I think it's a good point to say
that they can both exist.

1249
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,520
Exactly.
Those children can find out and

1250
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,720
be a bit like oh but they're in
the lower math set.

1251
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:51,040
Maybe they never would have
realised before and still

1252
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,920
flourish massively.
Because you can absolutely

1253
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,360
override it by doing everything
you did as a teacher to build

1254
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,240
their confidence.
Anyway, it's almost, you always

1255
00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:59,000
make it insignificant to them.
It's like, Oh yeah, it doesn't

1256
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,040
matter, don't worry about that
bit.

1257
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,440
Let's focus on all the stuff
that you love.

1258
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,400
And what about the confidence of
the liability child when they're

1259
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,680
in a room and see day after day
for an hour that 2/3 of the

1260
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:09,880
class can do stuff they can't
do?

1261
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,720
Yeah, and the teacher has to
cover it because we're doing

1262
00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:14,640
mixed stability and that teach
and that kid is always sat with

1263
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,280
teaching assistant, always
getting support and not

1264
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:17,760
understanding anything.
What about that child's

1265
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,240
confidence?
They know, they know.

1266
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:21,920
They know equally.
Oh, they're on the triangle

1267
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,440
table.
I wonder what the triangle table

1268
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,160
means.
Yeah, like this is the thing

1269
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:27,760
that exists in in education
always.

1270
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,480
And even when they're not, by
the way, because that's still

1271
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,680
kind of driven by ability when
you put them on the, the low

1272
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,080
ability children on the same
table within the same classroom,

1273
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,480
it's just smaller groups, right?
Even when they're completely

1274
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:37,920
just dotted around the
classroom, you've made every

1275
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,400
effort where they couldn't
possibly know.

1276
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,040
That's like you said, that's
still the one that needs support

1277
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:43,800
all the time.
So they're obviously going to

1278
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,400
work out and as are the other
children.

1279
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,320
Oh yeah, that child over there
that they need support because

1280
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:48,680
they they struggle with
everything we do in maths.

1281
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:49,840
Ever.
Because it's a mixed.

1282
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,480
Abilities, classroom.
So yeah, I agree.

1283
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,400
I think when we just throw all
that rubbish out the window

1284
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:58,160
genuinely there is that most in
most situations in real life it

1285
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,000
is actually just better to give
give children the support they

1286
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,000
need in groups by groom the
viability.

1287
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,120
So one the teacher can do a
really good focus job 2 the

1288
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,120
children don't have to be sat
there getting support.

1289
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,280
Like getting not getting
support.

1290
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,160
Sorry, because TA don't even
exist anyway in the mixed

1291
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,680
ability classrooms.
Yeah, like, you know, But yeah,

1292
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:20,040
I still feel like controversial.
I spent 10 years as a maths

1293
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,640
lead, a maths teacher, never
disagreeing with everything,

1294
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,880
everything we've just said.
And in practise it always worked

1295
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:25,880
better.
Yeah, yeah.

1296
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,080
I don't know.
What else can I do?

1297
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,000
Math results are always so good.
Yeah.

1298
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,600
Like, like genuinely like that.
Like if you look, if you want to

1299
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,600
just look on paper at the
results, always really good.

1300
00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:36,640
If you want to talk to the
children and just see what they

1301
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,760
think about maths.
Across our whole school, kids

1302
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:39,840
love the maths.
Definitely.

1303
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:44,000
And the same as you, I taught
top sets and quotation marks all

1304
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,640
the way down to the the bottom
sets in my career, you know,

1305
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,800
probably quite an equal spread
actually of the different sets.

1306
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,520
And I can tell you right now,
every single child in any of

1307
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,520
those groups felt just as much
love and confidence with maths

1308
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,080
by the end of that year that it
didn't matter What, it just

1309
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:58,120
didn't matter.
You know what I mean?

1310
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,040
Like it over.
It overrode the oh, I'm in this

1311
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:02,640
set though, OK, No one cares.
It doesn't matter.

1312
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:04,640
Get over it kid, because we're
going to love maths anyway.

1313
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,000
Like, and your company is going
to increase and you're going to

1314
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,160
learn maths.
So yeah, I just feel really bad

1315
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:11,880
that I can't do that.
Really tough maths kid.

1316
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,200
You can't.
Do the really easy maths.

1317
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,520
So let's do that for a bit.
First, shall we do that?

1318
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,400
Let's just do that.
I'd never actually say that to

1319
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,880
them before.
Yeah, of course there'll be

1320
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,960
someone dying.
Dying is a catch yourself.

1321
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,000
I want to be really angry at
this for some reason.

1322
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,440
I've noticed from the that I
knew this happened.

1323
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,320
We both called it.
I noticed from the maths who

1324
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,240
from the Instagram reels been
doing what we've been doing,

1325
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,480
just like a little bit of like
just showing sometimes showing

1326
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,600
teachers how to teach a certain
procedure or just literally just

1327
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,560
sharing a good practise of like
how to teach a procedure.

1328
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,720
I knew it and it is.
People are just dying to find

1329
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,160
anything in there that they can
disagree with and pull apart.

1330
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:44,360
And it's like, and I'm sure I'm
not perfect.

1331
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,080
There'll probably be some
situations where it's like, Oh

1332
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,000
yeah, good point, actually, I'll
refine that next time.

1333
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,680
Other times, most times it's
complete nonsense.

1334
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,320
I look at the comments and I'm
like, what is this person

1335
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,160
talking about?
I have to refrain myself from

1336
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,360
just being rude to them.
Did you watch the video you

1337
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,880
moron?
There was one.

1338
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,440
There was one where you did
adding fractions with different

1339
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,400
denominators that are so it was
fifths and sevenths and you did

1340
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,440
a video and the 1st 15 seconds
of the video you said now we can

1341
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,960
just go straight into procedure
and explain how to do this by

1342
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,840
cross multiplier getting across
and then that will work for some

1343
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,640
children.
But I think it's good to go

1344
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,360
deeper, right?
Then you go deeper into it and

1345
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,960
all you do, all you do in this
video, and I'm not exaggerating,

1346
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,280
all you explain is how to figure
out that when it's seven and

1347
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,960
five that may that you should
change it to an equivalent

1348
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,120
fraction and they're 30 fifths
like like that.

1349
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,440
That seems like a very, very
like a step that makes sense.

1350
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,400
What, why, why are we doing 35?
Well, it's because of this

1351
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,960
reason, right?
Putting it down, rewriting out

1352
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,360
the 30 fifths and then doing an
answer.

1353
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,840
That is all you did.
And someone commented saying, I

1354
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,480
understood this completely until
you started explaining it.

1355
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,920
Just I just just say to them, do
the same to the top as you do to

1356
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:54,760
the bottom and then add them up.
But like, where did they just

1357
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,080
pull 35 out their ass?
Yeah, yeah, they just guess

1358
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,600
where that came from.
Did you ignore the bit where I

1359
00:52:58,600 --> 00:52:59,760
said you could just do
procedures?

1360
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:00,880
It would work fine with some
kids?

1361
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:02,480
No Did you ignore that bit?
I know.

1362
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,720
Ohh mate.
Honestly, as if, as if, if, if

1363
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:06,360
procedures is the only thing to
do mass.

1364
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,320
I'll come and teach maths and
we'll just give you a list of

1365
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:10,680
things to go through for a
procedure.

1366
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,120
So what else commented what I
think you even reply to this one

1367
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,720
actually something about, oh, I
think you should make sure that

1368
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:17,120
secure on equivalent fractions
first.

1369
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:21,080
And then it was like, oh, 15
seconds into the video, Hayden

1370
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:22,520
said.
Link back to prior learning on

1371
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,120
equivalent fractions kind of
implies that, yeah.

1372
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,520
They just can't wait to look
like, oh, these guys doing it

1373
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:29,520
don't.
They don't actually.

1374
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,200
I'd make sure that we had all
the learning beforehand.

1375
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,480
Oh really?
I was going to add fractions

1376
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,080
with different denominators in
year 1.

1377
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,000
Silly woe is me.
I guess you are right.

1378
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:40,640
Drives me crazy.
We go back to the point where

1379
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:42,400
they have to be able to multiply
7 and five together.

1380
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,240
Sorry I didn't explain that in
this video as well.

1381
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,400
Yeah, exactly.
So that's how I feel like when

1382
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,600
we talk about stuff like mixed
stability in Group, I just

1383
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,720
someone's frothing, I think
ready to like just capture,

1384
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:54,000
we'll say something like
semantically.

1385
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,000
Slightly wrong, yeah.
Bottom set, Bottom set.

1386
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,880
Do you think, do you think just
use your critical thinking for a

1387
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,880
second that I stand in front of
the class again?

1388
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,040
I can't wait to teach this
bottom set you all the bottom

1389
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,120
have.
You tried being good at maths in

1390
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,080
here.
Do you know you're the bottom

1391
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,520
set?
If I was teaching you in a mixed

1392
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,000
ability class I'd give you ATA.
But you're not getting it now

1393
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,720
because you're all in here.
You're so bad, you're just with

1394
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:25,240
me and you're rubbish.
Let's do maths.

1395
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:26,880
That's what we say, that's what
we say.

1396
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,240
Absolutely all teachers do that.
Honest too.

1397
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,400
Goodness, right?
Should we stop there?

1398
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:32,640
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.

1399
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,760
Yeah, I need to go calm down.
Yeah, I guess we better go into

1400
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:38,760
that red flag episode now.
That'll make us calm.

1401
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,520
Yeah, Oh yeah.
Do tune in.

1402
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:42,840
TuneIn Wednesday.
Wednesday.

1403
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,160
Let us know what you think and
why not leave us a review.

1404
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:47,440
And tomorrow we're doing a
webinar.

1405
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,200
Why don't you sign up right now?
The link's down below.

1406
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:51,760
We're talking about maths.
I'll think maths.

1407
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:52,960
Come and join.
Us.

1408
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,400
We did it again, didn't we?
What's that?

1409
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,560
We didn't.
We didn't suggest joining the

1410
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:57,960
webinar at the start, so.
Who cares?

1411
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,560
We got about four people coming.
So good.

1412
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:00,720
See you then.