Ep 137: Answering Your Questions: Targeting Union Reps, Best School Trips & Parents Taking Children Out Of Lessons

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Hello everyone and welcome back
to another episode of Teach Seat

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name's Hayden.
And we are back with your

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questions that you have
submitted to us to answer on

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this podcast.
Now, Hayden, there's a few ways

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they can submit that questions
they can do on Instagram.

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We have a few Instagram
questions right here.

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But if they want priority, where
should they be headed?

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Oh Dylan, they should absolutely
be joining our WhatsApp

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community via the link down in
the description of this podcast

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episode.
Please do join in, Dylan.

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Tell tell all these lovely fans
exactly why they should.

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Go down there, click the link,
join.

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You only get messages from us.
You'll get links directly to

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your phone every time.
Anyway, episode drops, you'll

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get sneak peeks of taking a
picture today, Hayden, I'm

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actually going to post them in
there behind the scenes.

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It's not that exciting, but it's
worth joining because you will

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get access to polls on future
episode and priority access to

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submissions for your questions.
So without further ado, let's

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start with one of the questions
submitted in our WhatsApp group

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that you can join right now down
below.

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You should definitely do that
and then review us and then do

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all the good stuff and share it
with all your friends.

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Now that's out the way.
Well done.

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Let's go straight into what is
the best school trip that you

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have ever taken the children on
as a teacher.

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Great question something we
should be doing more of.

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I will just say as a separate
point we can talk about in a

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minute, but the first time that
comes to mind a bit of a cop out

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because most most recent one,
but I do really enjoy it do

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every single year is I take the
kids to RAF Manston, which is

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like a museum for a start.
It's an incredible experience

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where the kids get to go around
and see a bunch of planes, a

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bunch of World War 2 artefacts.
There's a the room that they all

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love, which is filled with like
guns and ammo and bullets and

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old like shrapnel and like
broken bits of planes.

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Glamorising war?
Nice one.

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Glamorising war?
You know it's a museum, isn't

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it?
What they do?

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Is that what?
Is that what the museums do?

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No, kids.
Kids love seeing the actual real

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stuff.
When you tell them it's real,

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exactly, their eyes light up.
Yeah.

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My only question to you, Hayden,
is how on earth do you know

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they're learning stuff if you've
not done your retrieval practise

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10 minutes in and you've got the
amazing slides that you've got

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off the scheme of work that you
have to listen to step by step,

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absolutely do your explicit
instruction.

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Because if you dare, If you dare
to think teacher, that you can

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possibly change that the kids
are not learning and you're

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going against the research and
in fact, you're being selfish.

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Actually, you're just a selfish
need to be creative.

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How dare you take these kids on
a trip?

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Didn't sounds like someone under
your skin, mate.

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Sounds like someone just really
annoyed with a little comment on

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TikTok.
Yeah, that's, you'll be pleased

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to know, Dylan, you're such a
naive teacher.

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You'll be pleased to know that I
actually walk around.

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There's these things you can buy
now, they sort of strapped to

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you.
It's like a background

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background.
When I press a little button, it

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changes the slide.
So I always have my icon in the

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top right.
So when when I'm talking like

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about the artefacts that we're
looking at, I change it.

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Otherwise, obviously, the kids
don't.

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Know they don't know.
It's teacher talk.

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I'm not.
Telling them it's teacher talk

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and, and obviously I they're
completely silent whilst I'm

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doing that.
And then I give, I go on my

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little button PED PED talk.
Then they know to have a little

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conversation about the thing
they're looking at because they

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couldn't be excited otherwise
about learning.

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And how on earth would they know
to talk to their partner if

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there wasn't an icon in the top
right corner of the screen every

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time telling them that that's
what they're?

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Doing they wouldn't know.
And there's one more thing I can

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do.
I can change the colour of the

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background.
So obviously the colours are

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attributed to different parts of
the lessons.

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They know, they know.
Oh.

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It's green, green, green, green,
green, purple.

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'S bad, purple's bad.
Purple means purple means it's

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break time.
So we don't, we don't use that

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one lightly, but the green ones,
yeah, it means we're learning

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now because we're at school,
aren't?

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We so naive to think that maybe
a teacher just saying to the

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children now it's time for some
retrieval practise.

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Might be no, no, no, sorry, no,
obviously not.

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We have to go back and change
explicit enough, not explicit

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enough.
Anyway, yeah, cheers.

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So why, why didn't just just go
back to the holes of this?

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Yeah, Like what?
What made that?

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What made you love that trip,
though?

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Like the kids enjoyed it.
Obviously they saw the real life

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hits.
But like, why would you think,

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OK, do you know what though?
That that is obviously just

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better.
That's just really fun.

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Few things, number one, no
clipboards.

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The kids could actually just be
engrossed in it #2 the pace was

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really good.
Like there were some trips, I

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feel like sometimes after a few
hours, it's sort of maybe maybe

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you've kind of done all the
stuff and the kids get a bit

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bored.
This was a really good trip

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because it was there was just
constantly like different rooms

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to go in, different things to
see.

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And then they had they put on
things like they got volunteers.

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It was really nice to be fair.
They got volunteers in where the

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kids could then like go and sit
in some of the cockpits of some

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of the planes.
They had like parts of planes,

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old planes, newer planes.
It was really cool.

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So that there was just so much
stuff to do.

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And I think I can judge it all
by literally just looking at how

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the kids react when their faces
light up and they're happy about

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where they are all day.
And they're not saying, when do

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we get to go, when can we go
home, when to lunch, When

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they're not doing that.
I'm like, this is a good trip.

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Yeah.
So that's it for me.

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What about you?
Did you have like a particular

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trip?
Yeah, there's this place, I

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think it's in Ashford and Kent
where near where we live, where

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it's called Kent Life.
And essentially you go there and

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you're fully immersed in the era
of history that you're learning

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about.
So, for example, I've taken

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children here in Year 5 when
we've done the Victorians and

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you go there and you know, all
the, there's a small Chapel,

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there's like a small village
place where I had old houses and

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stuff.
And it's all set up to be as if

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you're in the Victorian era.
Yeah.

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So you walk in through a house
and the kids are fully immersed.

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Everyone dressed up would have
been, yeah, you can dress up.

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But like all of the people
working there are, are in their

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roles.
They're actors and as soon as

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you step in, it's like, Oh my
God, this is unreal.

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This is so much better than
whacking a slide up and showing

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a picture.
This is, this is like real

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history to me.
And the kids, again, they love

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it so much.
And there's like different

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workshops they put on.
So I said we did Year 5, we did

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Victorians, I've been before and
it's been Anglo Saxons or, and

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Vikings and things like that.
And, and the kids are so engaged

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and they ask questions to these
people running these workshops

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as if they are like a, a trader
from the Anglo-Saxon times.

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Like what would you do with the
metal there?

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And I, Oh yeah, it was worth
this much.

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And then they make their own
jewellery.

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And it's the kind of thing that
I think gets lost a lot of the

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time when scores buying schemes
with the best of intentions

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because they think all the
research says this.

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And I'm hoping to reduce
workload for my staff.

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It's just a pick up and go
lesson and everyone's doing the

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same thing.
There's there is a middle ground

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obviously, because when you see
stuff like this, I'm like, no,

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no, this is learning.
This is what learning should be.

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This is what I want my child to
do.

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Now I've got my own son.
If I think about what I want him

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to sit through, my goodness me,
I want him to go to these

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places.
And it's just a shame that it's

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not realistic for a lot of
schools.

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There isn't the funding for a
lot of schools to be able to do

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that.
And living in an ideal world, I

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suppose, where I say every
single time you do a history

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topic, you should have something
like this.

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But, but it does just go to show
that like everything we talk

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about is best for the children.
It is in this bubble of what we

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can work with.
And it's, it's really restrained

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by the funding we have and the
ability to book trips and the

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cost of coaches has risen
tremendously.

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The amount of time that goes
into organising a trip is just

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another thing that we sit in
this podcast and say don't do

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all that stuff in your own time.
These trips don't happen

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otherwise.
So I, I get everything.

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I get the pros and cons.
All I'm saying is that you have

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to look at when you do a trip
and the impact it has on these

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kids, lots of whom maybe never
get the chance to do something

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like this.
And just think, God, if this

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isn't at the centre of what
we're doing as an education

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system, it is broken, isn't it?
I'd be really interested to know

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how how many trips schools go on
because I because I've worked in

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a few schools and it has been
genuinely wildly different even

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just school to school around in
in like the same sort of.

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Area do you think?
I think a lot of that COVID

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impacted a lot of it, yeah,
maybe because COVID obviously

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prices went up a lot after
COVID, etcetera, because of

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inflation and stuff and.
That's right.

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And coaches, I know that's Yeah,
that's what I mean.

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The cost of coaches, yeah.
It's just it's.

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Yeah, coaches end up costing
more than the trip itself.

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Yeah.
So unless you are lucky enough

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to have a school that's on the
doorstep of like, we were in

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London recently and I posted it
on Instagram and we're at the

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Tower of London and a few
teachers reply going, oh, we're

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so lucky to have this on our
doorstep.

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We go there all the time.
Oh my gosh, amazing.

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And and yeah, I think schools
should make the most of their

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local area as much as they can.
For example, that Manston RAF

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museum that you talked about, we
take children to we do World War

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2.
That was a huge part of World

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War 2 was our area.
You know, we're in East Kent

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like we're on, we're on
basically the front lines when

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it comes to the Battle of
Britain and across across the

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channel into France.
So like we we heavily the

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Internet and we should, but
there are some parts of the

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country who that is listen to
you speak about that be like,

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Oh, well, we can't do that.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Even.
I mean, just a final point on

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this, even the fact that it's 10
minutes away from wherever where

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our school was, we still have to
get a coach there.

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And it was still, the coach was
still three times more expensive

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than the admission fee,
admissions fee.

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It's just mad.
And coach prices, yeah, just

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skyrocketed.
So do what you can, do as best

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as you can for trips.
They are amazing experiences.

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And if you're down in Kent,
visit RAF Madison Museum or Kent

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Life.
Or another little bonus one for

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you, Ramsgate Tunnels.
Unbelievably awesome for World

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War Two.
I've taken kids there as well.

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It's such a good day out.
Amazing trip and if you're

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listening overseas then sorry.
No, anywhere but Ramsgate.

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Yeah, because you don't get a
coach with a stab.

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Too much go up a plane.
Plane might be cheaper if you're

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in Australia listening.
Fly to Manston, fly to man, go

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to.
The airport that's closed

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anyway, right?
Next question.

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You can go anywhere in the world
for a family holiday for a week.

226
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:22,920
What?
Manson.

227
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,520
Manson What next?
Question next.

228
00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,160
Come on mate, these are easy.
It would just search monster

229
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,559
right now.
Why do you remember?

230
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,919
There's videos on Instagram
where it's like, just heard

231
00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:39,760
about Bolton for the first time
and it like zooms in on Google

232
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,600
Maps, but like pretends this is
utopia.

233
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,880
There's like an amazing
waterfall and there's Americans

234
00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,000
going, oh, I need to visit
Bolton.

235
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:48,920
How can we do that?
Can we make it from Manston?

236
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,560
Let's do one.
Oh man.

237
00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:54,200
Anyway.
Just Manston for the first time,

238
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:59,160
it's the Niagara Falls that is
not Manson, right?

239
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,480
What your three must haves when
looking for the best place.

240
00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,880
So I guess this is leaning into
the fact that we have young

241
00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,120
children, we have a young
family.

242
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,560
If you want to go away, what the
three things you're looking for

243
00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:15,480
in childcare?
Number one adult only #2 Nan and

244
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:22,080
Granddad are free #3 no, I don't
know, unlimited.

245
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:27,440
Alcohol at the Bar 3.
Our kids will listen to this one

246
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,240
day and be like, oh that mean?
Yeah.

247
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,120
And then they'll listen to it
and the roller again and go, oh,

248
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:33,600
they were right.
Yeah, yeah.

249
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,760
Yeah, so, so sorry.
I've lost sight of the question.

250
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:37,960
So top three things you're
looking for.

251
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,560
What are you looking for?
You've got a family holiday for

252
00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:40,160
a week?
What?

253
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,240
What are your non negotiables
that you're looking for at that

254
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:43,240
point?
My God, it has to be all

255
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:44,000
inclusive.
Yeah.

256
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,280
And that's me.
I'm just like, oh God, I don't

257
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,600
want to.
But would you rather go on one

258
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,240
all inclusive holiday and then
have a year off and then go on

259
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,680
an all inclusive holiday, so one
every two years, or go on

260
00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:57,200
holiday every year?
But it's like self catering,

261
00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:58,680
it's not all inclusive, just
sort your food out.

262
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,840
But you get one every year.
Oh God, I actually think in that

263
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,680
one I would flip back to yeah
every year just just because I

264
00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:06,360
don't.
I don't.

265
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:08,320
I'm sure some people really hate
the self carrying thing in

266
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,400
there, but I absolutely never.
I don't hate it, I just think

267
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,360
all inclusive is much better.
But have you found that since

268
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,440
having a family, the idea of all
inclusive has become like

269
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,080
tantalising, like, Oh my gosh,
yes.

270
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,760
When you've, you've got your
kids and you, you know, the

271
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,600
monotonous driver, Oh my God, I
got to sort dinner out.

272
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,080
What's for dinner?
Don't you feel like every day is

273
00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,320
what's for dinner?
I I literally get that feeling.

274
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,080
Just the idea of not having to
eat dinner one time in a week.

275
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,200
It's like if my mum was like,
oh, do you want to come out for

276
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,120
dinner?
I'm like.

277
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:35,680
Yeah, you said, do you want to
roast dinner tonight?

278
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,360
Maybe even not.
Maybe the answer's no, but I'm

279
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,160
coming.
I'm coming because you're going

280
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,480
to sort us out some dinner.
I don't like the roast.

281
00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:45,480
It was goodbye.
Yeah, I worked pretty hard on

282
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,820
that for you.
Yeah, all inclusive, I think non

283
00:10:48,820 --> 00:10:49,760
negotiable for me, especially
now.

284
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,400
I didn't used to think this.
I didn't used to be bothered.

285
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,360
But now I need somewhere just
like hot, somewhere I can

286
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,120
somewhere I can genuinely just
like relax and be warm.

287
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:57,480
Sure.
I used to just be like, now I

288
00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:58,720
don't care about that.
I'll go, let's go on an

289
00:10:58,720 --> 00:10:59,720
adventure.
Go somewhere else.

290
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,800
Because it's because rest has
become a commodity now.

291
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:03,680
Yeah, Yeah.
What is rest when you have a

292
00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,000
young child?
Pathetic is that?

293
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,520
It's true though.
Before we had children I was

294
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,800
like, just rest.
Now, yeah, I'm like, wait to

295
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,280
rest.
I'm just going to rest and read

296
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,760
in my front room.
Whereas now I'm just like, Oh my

297
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,200
God, yeah, please, yeah, word,
please just arrest.

298
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:17,760
So fun.
I don't my third bomb would be

299
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,240
lots of things.
We could go all the way to more

300
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,200
abstract, like the amount of
time, or it could just be a

301
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:23,320
certain thing you get when
you're there.

302
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,040
Like just have two this is you.
Jump in.

303
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,680
No, I'm really, I'm really
conflicted on the whole

304
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:31,720
childcare thing.
Like, I'm really conflicted on

305
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,480
it because I'm not being funny,
right?

306
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,160
The idea of going away somewhere
right now with Rory, my son,

307
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,200
right, wouldn't feel like a
holiday because I wouldn't be

308
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,080
getting the things that I would
associate with the holiday like

309
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,640
the rest.
He's 10 years old.

310
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,120
He'd love it.
He's just turning to very soon,

311
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,920
but like it would be like I've
got to do everything I do now in

312
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,920
this home without being at home
and all this stuff around.

313
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,600
He's got all his toys here, he's
got his family network here he

314
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,960
goes to see his Nan, etcetera.
I'd have, it would be like an

315
00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:02,960
intense week.
It would almost be like on

316
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,360
steroids what I've got to do now
and not necessarily like the

317
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,240
whole holiday aspect of it.
And but the reason I'm

318
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,760
conflicted is because I also
think it would be unreal to just

319
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,720
be with him on holiday, play in
the pool, have all those

320
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,920
moments.
So like I'm I'm way like in now

321
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,840
I've got to do it.
I've got your, I've got my last

322
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,600
one and your first one.
The non negotiable is the Nan or

323
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,160
granddad or someone has to come
with us.

324
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:24,520
Yeah, 100%.
Now be come with us.

325
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,440
So that would be it because then
you get all the benefits.

326
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,240
But like even just like if Nan
and granddad come and even if

327
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,280
they just have him for a couple
of hours in the evening and

328
00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,840
being go have to have dinner or
something, or even just in the

329
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,520
daytime, they're busy playing
with him and just have a couple

330
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,480
of drinks.
You know what I mean?

331
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,760
Like just having that team where
it's like, OK, there's there is

332
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,720
one child and there are four
adults on this holiday.

333
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,560
So we can just rotate around.
We can have an actual break.

334
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,000
I'm with you there.
They're the three, I think.

335
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,600
Yeah, Yeah.
Good question.

336
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,880
Great question, right?
Let's do it for another one.

337
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,640
In your opinion, does becoming a
school union Rep put a target on

338
00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,760
your back from higher management
in a school?

339
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,280
My gut feeling is yes of.
Course it does.

340
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,760
Yeah, of course it does.
Like I, I do feel that's my

341
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,240
first thought.
Like it's bad.

342
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,600
It's bad to to.
I don't want to make that

343
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,240
judgement because you're
basically just assuming

344
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,800
something about the SLT, but I
do think it.

345
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,280
So target on your back is quite
provocative, I suppose.

346
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,360
Like what I'm, what I guess I'm
really saying is you're on their

347
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,280
radar as soon as they know
there's a union Rep in the

348
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,080
school, because I've worked in
schools without a union Rep and

349
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,440
I've worked in schools with the
union Rep.

350
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,040
Like everyone knows who the
union Rep is.

351
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,760
Like you put yourself on that
pedestal of everyone thinks and

352
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,680
they will think about you when
wanting to introduce stuff.

353
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:34,720
They will probably, depending on
how you do the union Rep roll.

354
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,640
They'll be thinking, oh.
What's the name is Union Rep

355
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,240
though, So they might think
that, yeah, I think I didn't

356
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,280
have a complex answer to this.
I think it really is as simple

357
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,680
as this.
The profession of teaching is

358
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:47,760
built off of the back of
exploiting teachers.

359
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,800
It's literally built off of hard
free labour all the time.

360
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,920
It's not contracted.
So when you've got someone

361
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,120
coming in that's like the
furthest away from that you can

362
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,120
really be.
And saying that I'm extremely,

363
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,400
I'm a union Rep, which means I'm
extremely aware of the fact that

364
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,200
teaching is broken and I'm here
to maybe do something about it

365
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,160
and call you out if it's wrong.
It's impossible to work in a

366
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,920
school where that's not going to
be like the way you're going to

367
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,320
be on the radar.
Like you said, yeah, it's

368
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,200
because the the teaching person
is broken.

369
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,120
So of course it stands out.
Do you think I, I think it would

370
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,600
be really hard to be a union Rep
in a school.

371
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,760
A lot of people said to me over
the years, I think knowing that

372
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,480
we did the podcast and stuff and
just the way I am in particular,

373
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,480
I don't know if you had
something similar where a few

374
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,600
people said to me like you
should be a union Rep in the

375
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,600
school.
You, you should be that person

376
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,480
who explains the contract to
everyone or, you know, organises

377
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,880
teachers to get together and
vote on something and whether we

378
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,200
should or shouldn't do it,
etcetera.

379
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,160
And I always thought I like the
idea of doing all of that, but I

380
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,320
never wanted to be the union
Rep.

381
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,120
So I think it kind of answered
that question in terms of, yeah,

382
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,440
I, I feel like I could do it to
an extent without being the Rep,

383
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,160
but it does come with some
power.

384
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:49,920
That's good.
I do.

385
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,320
I do think every, every place
should have a union Rep, to be

386
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,000
fair.
But what would be your opinion

387
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,760
then on being a Rep?
Right?

388
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,440
And I think we all agree, don't
we, that there are some things

389
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,440
in a school that technically
should not be asked of a teacher

390
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,640
or technically isn't in your
contract or like, I mean, no,

391
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,320
but I guess I'll do it even I
think that to a degree.

392
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,440
Yeah, I mean, me too.
So as a union Rep, would you

393
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,840
still have some leeway or would
you would you have to be?

394
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,200
No.
This is the line, though, And,

395
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,080
and I don't care that you're
just asking me to cover half a

396
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,160
lunchtime break once off because
this thing happened.

397
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,320
Yeah, the answer's no.
I think you probably answered

398
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,960
why me and you never wanted to
be a union Rep because we do

399
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,400
believe in a little bit, that
little bit of leeway.

400
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,120
We're not as hard as you think.
Sometimes we'll like with these

401
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,320
lines, whereas if with a union
Rep, I think you have to have a

402
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,600
hard line.
I mean, that's the point.

403
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,600
You're representing that hard
line like.

404
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,480
Even if you're just putting the
argument forward.

405
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,640
Yeah, genuinely, I feel, I feel
like the union Rep is the one

406
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,000
person that's not supposed to
have a bit of leeway.

407
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,440
They're supposed to be the basis
of good, the grounded person at

408
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,360
the other end of the scale,
which is a reminder you're not

409
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:51,440
supposed to be doing any of
these things.

410
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,000
You guys can have a discussion
about whether you want to have

411
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,040
some leeway or something, but
I'm here as the union Rep to say

412
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,680
this is the contract.
It's black and white.

413
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,320
You should or you shouldn't be
doing these things.

414
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,120
And I just don't think I could
be that role because I like

415
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,280
being the more middle, the
middle person, which is like

416
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:05,560
reminding people that this is
our contract.

417
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,640
These are the rules.
But also I'm a real human being

418
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,040
and we're all here working
together and they're, and

419
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,640
sometimes it's a bit of give and
take and I just don't know.

420
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,440
I don't, I don't think, I don't
think I could be a good union

421
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,200
Rep because I would be too much.
It's like, it's like saying to a

422
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,840
police officer, do you agree
with every single lawyer?

423
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,600
Because I'm sure not every
police officer agrees with 100%

424
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,120
every single law.
They have to sure.

425
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:26,120
What's the word they have to
enforce.

426
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,840
Yeah, but they have to enforce
it though, because they are the

427
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:30,120
law.
That is, that is just their job.

428
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,640
It's like you couldn't have a
police officer.

429
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:32,840
It's like, I'm going to give a
little bit.

430
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,760
Yeah, I don't give and take it.
You can break the lawmate

431
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:35,800
because I saw.
I don't know.

432
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,680
I think it's, but I think what
you just described there

433
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,600
describes teachers.
We've got to follow the

434
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:40,800
curriculum.
There's certain things in the

435
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,040
curriculum.
I'm just like, do you know what?

436
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,520
We're not doing that this year.
I'm prioritising this.

437
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,360
Yeah, OK.
And and I guess more more

438
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,720
prevalent to what your
discussion you're having is

439
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,760
there is stuff in the curriculum
that I absolutely disagree with

440
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,080
teaching and I'm like, there is
no point doing this.

441
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,400
It's stupid, but I still teach a
whole lesson on it like so I'm

442
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,480
still doing what the police
officer does in that In that

443
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,000
case, I think union Rep is just
slightly different because it's

444
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,520
like a it's an elected role
where you know, you, you like

445
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,280
you're saying, I think by being
in that role, you have to be

446
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,040
that person.
I think it's different to a

447
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,800
police officer, teacher,
etcetera, because I think it's

448
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,839
like the next level up where
it's like, imagine going to a

449
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:21,480
union Rep, right?
And and saying is this against

450
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,839
the rules?
And they're like, yeah, but just

451
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:24,119
do it.
Yeah, you can't do that.

452
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,400
You can't, you can't do that.
Whereas as a teacher, it's like,

453
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,640
I mean, I've got to do my I've
got to do this curriculum.

454
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,840
I think it's silly.
Why am I teaching Roman

455
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,440
numerals, poor Roman numerals
because it's bad rap.

456
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,840
And yeah, yeah, but I will teach
Roman numerals because it's part

457
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:36,520
of the curriculum.
I'm like, OK, I disagree with

458
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,920
this, but still, right.
I just think union reps just the

459
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,600
next level where you have to go
by the book.

460
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,240
I think I also think you could,
you and I could do a good job

461
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,000
with it though.
Like I think you can go by the

462
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,640
book and teachers still choose
to do something different.

463
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,680
But I think what's important is,
and This is why we do this

464
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,840
podcast, a lot of time, teachers
need to know where their bottom

465
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,240
line is, where they can say no.
That's that's the freedom I

466
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,920
think that a union Rep should
give its staff is I'm going to

467
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,520
empower you of knowledge where
this is where you can reasonably

468
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,960
draw the line.
If you choose to go past it, I'm

469
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,720
not going to stop you.
Like, cool.

470
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,240
But what I need to do as a union
Rep is tell you that it

471
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,280
technically is not allowed.
Therefore, you shouldn't be

472
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,520
doing it.
Or that technically is asking

473
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,200
too much of you.
You don't have to do it.

474
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,760
And I think they're different
things, aren't they?

475
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,840
Yeah, slightly, slightly.
Do you think we should train

476
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,960
them?
Union reps The Podcast Union

477
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,720
reps.
What it'll make our own union.

478
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,360
Yeah, just we're any, we're in a
union now.

479
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:32,120
We're here as representatives on
this podcast.

480
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:33,880
Are we representing podcasters
or?

481
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:35,040
Yeah, true.
Yeah.

482
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:36,240
Yeah.
Sorry teachers, you're out.

483
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:38,760
That's a good question though,
right?

484
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,520
Let's go to another one kind of
linked into what we're just

485
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,720
talking about.
Actually good synergy as always

486
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,200
in this these episodes.
I'm new to SLT and I'm still

487
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:52,240
teaching four days a week advice
to not be a horrid SLT person.

488
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,160
Self-awareness is.
Lovely.

489
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,480
Those questions.
I'm always like, you're already

490
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:58,720
not.
And and such.

491
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,400
It's just that.
It's just you're already not.

492
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,840
You're asked like the fact that
you've even written that to a

493
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,560
podcast that people talk about
teaching.

494
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:08,560
You're just, you're just not
because the people that are do

495
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,480
not do that.
They don't care.

496
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:11,560
They don't want to hear our
opinions.

497
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:12,720
They don't, they don't listen.
They just.

498
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,160
They wouldn't even write that
in.

499
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,520
They're not even, yeah, that
self aware to think is this bad.

500
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,840
I, I just, I feel like we do
this a lot, maybe because we've

501
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,800
got loads of pushback.
But I think there are so many

502
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,480
unbelievable leaders out there
like this person still teaching

503
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,200
four days a week now a member of
SLT.

504
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,880
Obviously I, I can guarantee
this person does not get enough

505
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,240
time on that one day to fulfil
their roles as leadership.

506
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:35,680
I can I can just guarantee I
know that's true.

507
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,960
So and they're and they're still
asking.

508
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,120
I don't want to turn into this,
this idea of I know what, you

509
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,920
can go down this road and become
this, you know, narcissistic

510
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,240
person who just put, you know,
rule of law in this school.

511
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,720
So if you're giving me like just
a cup of pointers, then and so

512
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,480
they're just genuinely, they're
like, OK, it's all well and

513
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:51,680
good, but what would we actually
say?

514
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,080
What kind of things would you
say to them?

515
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,600
Like I think maybe ways to act
or things to do just to keep

516
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,240
them, you know, a good SLT or
whatever they called it.

517
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,920
I think a really big part of it
is not slipping into treating

518
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,360
your staff the way you treated
your class of children.

519
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,440
And I think I do think that
happens a lot.

520
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,720
And you have to understand that
you're working with not a bunch

521
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,360
of minds that you're moulding
and helping and, and getting to

522
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:16,000
an end point, which is what
teaching is where you are very

523
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,240
much the voice of authority.
You're leading them through

524
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,000
their learning journey.
You're getting into their end

525
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,080
goals and you're responsible for
that at the end of the day.

526
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,080
And you need to make sure the
children get there.

527
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,120
And sometimes you say, no kids,
you just have to do this.

528
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:27,480
There's a lot of micro
management with kids.

529
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,520
Exactly that.
I think when it moves to you

530
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,520
being in charge of a group of
teachers, what you have to

531
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,600
understand is that these people
are professionals.

532
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,720
These people are trained in
teaching and for, for a lot of

533
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,240
those, they're experienced as
well.

534
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,560
So you don't need to be
micromanaging every small finite

535
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,400
detail.
And even though you are kind of

536
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,400
you're, you're the buck stops
with you in terms of your SLT

537
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,600
and, and what the teachers do is
a reflection on what you are.

538
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,280
You have to have some kind of
management.

539
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:55,080
Sure.
Yeah, of course.

540
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,080
But I think it has to be much
more of an open dialogue,

541
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,240
whereas if if as leadership,
you're thinking about changes in

542
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,240
your school that you want to
implement out.

543
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,480
And we talked about this last
week on the question and answer

544
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,480
podcast about, you know, at what
line do we have of no, you have

545
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,400
to do this, this or no, this is
a good thing.

546
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:10,840
You could do this or I don't
care.

547
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,760
Do it or don't.
I think as a, as a, as

548
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,960
leadership, you have to have
those 3 categories.

549
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,240
And you have to think to
yourself, OK, I'm not just going

550
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,040
to come in and say, all right,
guys, I need all your planning

551
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,200
in at the end of every Friday
because I'm going to spend my

552
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,160
weekend looking at it because I
want to master myself.

553
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,200
And I'm going to send it back to
you on Sunday, make the changes

554
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,640
for next week or Monday.
Like, like if you are a leader

555
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:31,920
doing that, and I know we've
talked about it in the other

556
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,120
podcasts, you know, those, those
red flags and that was one of

557
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:35,920
them.
But if you're a leader, right,

558
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,560
and you get to the point where
you're doing that, you are a

559
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,200
terrible leader and it's the end
of it.

560
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,600
You know, you can sit there and
say, oh, but I'm, I'm helping

561
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,320
them.
And you might have that in your

562
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,000
mind.
You might genuinely think that.

563
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,880
And I think a lot of these
leaders do genuinely think that

564
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,920
when they say give me a planning
on a Friday evening, I'll look

565
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,920
at over the weekend because oh
God, aren't I great?

566
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,600
I'm going to look at over the
weekend in my own time, send it

567
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,840
back to you on Sunday so you can
make the changes for Monday.

568
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,680
It doesn't matter how good you
think that is.

569
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,120
It doesn't matter how great you
think you are as a person.

570
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:08,160
Doesn't matter how much you
think that is helping.

571
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,280
You are a terrible leader if you
are doing that because you are

572
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,520
putting so much strain and
stress on your teachers.

573
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,720
Not only are you constantly
judging everything they put

574
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,160
together, there's no trust at
all there.

575
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,000
You are also saying to them,
yeah, I'm going to go back to

576
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,760
you on Sunday and I expect you
on Sunday to make these changes.

577
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,720
I've decided which you might not
agree with and I don't care if

578
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,240
you're a professional, whatever,
just change them to I think on

579
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:31,960
Sunday.
If I'm doing undirected time, so

580
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,400
are you.
It's just nonsense.

581
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,080
And and like that's where I'm
not afraid to say to people

582
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,360
that's terrible leadership.
And anyone seeing me say that

583
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,280
going, oh, not all leaders,
you're so mean.

584
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:42,280
I'm not talking about all
leaders.

585
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,000
I'm talking about that one.
I'm talking about this leader

586
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,040
who's done something objectively
stupid, which is awful and bad

587
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,400
for their staff.
They're a terrible leader and

588
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,160
probably, probably despite them
thinking they're doing what's

589
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,200
best, a bad person.
Yeah, yeah, you're making that

590
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,280
your whole team work on Sunday
evening.

591
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,280
You cannot do that.
And that's where you need a

592
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,560
union Rep.
Yeah, so don't do that.

593
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,640
That's Dylan's first point.
Don't do that, I think.

594
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,160
Yeah, what's your more meta like
I guess?

595
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:08,920
I just, I was trying to think of
like drawing a comparison

596
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,880
because you said it's not like
teaching the kids and it isn't,

597
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,400
I agree with everything you
said, but I was trying to draw a

598
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,800
comparison between your job as a
teacher with the kids and how

599
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,880
like what you always say this to
be fair about as a teacher, it's

600
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,120
about service, right?
We're serving, we're serving a

601
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:22,320
community.
We're serving the kids like

602
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,240
we're there to serve them, but
equally, there's a, there's a,

603
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,200
there's a balance to this
because you don't, we don't just

604
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,240
do everything they want ever.
There is, you are also the

605
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:31,960
authority.
So you have to make decisions

606
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,440
sometimes for them.
And I think I think you can,

607
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,040
with the right mindset, you can
have a similar approach to being

608
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,000
a senior leader.
Senior leader, just think of

609
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,960
your staff as like you're there
to serve them.

610
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,480
They're, they are working your
school and your management role.

611
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,360
Now a big part of that is is to
serve those people and make sure

612
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:49,720
they're happy working at your
school.

613
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,560
Make sure they've got what they
need in the same way you would

614
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,760
have done with the kids.
But equally, there's a, there's

615
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,800
a balance to that where you
can't then be a complete

616
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,280
pushover that won't, that won't,
this won't actually help in the

617
00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:59,640
long run.
You do also need to sometimes

618
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,600
make decisions.
And you know what I do when I

619
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,400
have to make a decision to kids
that they don't understand,

620
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,960
always a bit above them.
I explain it to them as best as

621
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,440
I can, rather than saying, oh,
well, it's just a decision I've

622
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:09,440
made.
Get on with it.

623
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,040
Just do the same thing.
Like we're all just human

624
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,400
beings.
I think it's so easy to fall

625
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,200
into like patronising behaviours
when you're a leader, when you,

626
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,880
whether it's in the classroom or
whether you're a leader of

627
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:23,560
staff, just think about like
position yourself, but where are

628
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:24,920
you in the school?
I mean, like, do you just think

629
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,960
you're above everybody else and
they should all listen to you no

630
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,160
matter what?
Because I don't think that's

631
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:29,280
healthy.
I think that's where you get the

632
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,840
bad SRT emerging.
Or do you just see yourself as

633
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,520
you're just doing a job?
They're doing a job and part of

634
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,800
your job is to look after them
and part of your job is to make

635
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,640
decisions that benefit the wider
school and the children.

636
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,480
You can get that balance right?
People, people just won't think

637
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,600
you're that horrible SRT.
They'll just think there'll be

638
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,720
normal people that'll say, oh,
that's just a nice person.

639
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,720
They are doing a job though.
So I understand they've got to

640
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,640
make decisions sometimes, but
they do also ask me if I'm doing

641
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,840
all right and constantly check
in and make sure that my job is,

642
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,000
you know, successful as best as
they can.

643
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,320
You just got to find that
balance.

644
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:57,840
I think you've hit the nail on
the head.

645
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,720
That's where I, I think a really
good leader.

646
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,320
If you're thinking about how can
I not become this horrid person?

647
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,200
I don't think most SLT are these
horrible people, by the way.

648
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:09,120
But I think, if you're really
thinking, how can I stay

649
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:12,960
grounded?
What you need to imagine is what

650
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,680
your teachers think when you
walk through their classroom

651
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,720
door.
So I've had leaders before who

652
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,240
when they walk through my
classroom door, I almost seize

653
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,640
up.
I became become to feel anxious,

654
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,120
like I begin to feel anxious.
I, I start to think, oh gosh,

655
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,360
what am I doing right?
Or more importantly, what am I

656
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:29,800
doing wrong?
Oh gosh, what are they going to

657
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,720
pick up on?
And I've also had leaders who

658
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,280
when they walk through the door,
I smile and I think, hey, what?

659
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,760
Come in, little Johnny wants to
show you his work.

660
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,720
He was just saying that's a
culture that's embedded because

661
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,720
genuinely, that child might have
said to me, oh, can I go and

662
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,160
show this teacher my work?
Who's your who's your assistant

663
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,320
head?
I had that all the time in my

664
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,920
last school and I loved it.
And, and when they came to my

665
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,280
classroom door, it was like, oh,
my gosh, come in pair of hands.

666
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, and I think it's if if you,

667
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,320
the first thing you think of
when you talk to your staff is

668
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,800
what can I do to help you?
If that's your first thought,

669
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,560
yeah, I agree.
If your first thought is what

670
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,720
can I do to judge you?
Yeah, yeah, you're going to go

671
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,720
down the toxic.
Route and it's so revealing I've

672
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,120
I've also known staff that have
tried to mask themselves as they

673
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:16,880
know that that's what you're
supposed to do, but they're not

674
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,560
really doing it.
They actually do want to come in

675
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,920
and check on you.
They actually do want to come in

676
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,640
and make sure that the kids are
behaving and it's not your fault

677
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,080
and you can just see through it.
I think the little things you

678
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,320
say and do as SLT really do
reveal you you like you said,

679
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,040
I've had a head teacher come in
before who genuinely just looks

680
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,960
at me at the front of the
classroom in the eyes and says,

681
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,560
is everything all right here?
Can I do anything for you?

682
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,240
And I'm like, it's real.
They're not, they're not using

683
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,840
that as a pretend thing or
they're pretending to be nice

684
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,320
because they've learned that
you're supposed to do that to be

685
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,920
nice.
And it's just manipulative to

686
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,240
actually try and catch me out on
something else.

687
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,880
Have a look around and see if
I'm doing something wrong.

688
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:47,600
They just mean it and you can
tell because if they didn't, if

689
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,520
they weren't meaning it, I would
immediately know and I'd just

690
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,280
feel anxious again and and it
would just be at such.

691
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,400
A and, and if you do have
something that could help you,

692
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,560
they do it.
Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's

693
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,120
not just this facade.
It's like they care deeply about

694
00:26:58,120 --> 00:26:59,680
their stuff.
And I think if you start with

695
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,240
that care, you can't really go
wrong.

696
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,200
No, absolutely.
If you, if you mean well, it'll

697
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,360
be fine, genuinely, which is why
at the start we sort of said

698
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:08,200
you'll be fine immediately,
because in fact you've asked

699
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,000
this already tells enough.
Absolutely brilliant, right?

700
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,640
Next question.
Is it a good idea for my child

701
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,440
to attend the school that I work
in?

702
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,200
Is it a good idea?
That's such a big question

703
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,520
because I'm like, maybe.
A good, maybe not, yeah.

704
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,240
In some cases.
So so your answer is.

705
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,800
It depends.
It definitely depends I think.

706
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,240
You don't fall on one side where
you're like never or always.

707
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,120
OK, OK.
If I had my gut feeling, I think

708
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,400
I'd avoid it if I could.
If I could avoid it, I probably

709
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,320
would.
If I had a choice of two

710
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,160
schools, kid comes to mind or a
different school, I think I'd

711
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,200
say I want them to be in a
different one just because there

712
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,840
are some minor things that might
put me off and being in my

713
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,960
school, it might restrict where
I'm working in the school.

714
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,760
Oh, like you can't I?
Now come in at you because then

715
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,960
or even worse, I get put in the
ego rhythm and I feel really

716
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,800
uncomfortable now because I
might teach my own kid and like

717
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,240
it's just awkward.
But would you say that to other

718
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,160
people who'd be like, Oh no, Or
would you say, well, it's up to?

719
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,080
You.
Oh, no, completely up to you.

720
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,760
I'm just I'm, I'm now going down
the route of my answers to use

721
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,800
it unless I give my opinion,
because otherwise my answer is,

722
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:08,040
oh, it depends.
It's up to you.

723
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:08,920
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.

724
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,480
So for me, I'd probably avoid it
for for those sorts of reasons.

725
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,400
I also think sometimes some
kids, again, it's completely

726
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,280
depend on the kids.
Some kids can, it can be a

727
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,560
negative I guess because they
might rely on you.

728
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,000
They might not be able to detach
like home life from school life

729
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,240
because it's a bit more blurred.
So they might come up to you and

730
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,200
call you mum or dad in the
school day and then maybe that's

731
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,400
a bit awkward.
My friends might be like, why

732
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,560
are you doing that?
I don't know.

733
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,880
I feel like there's just like
little things that you could

734
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,720
maybe avoid by not doing it, but
I've also seen it work really

735
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,440
successfully.
I've had loads of colleagues

736
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,200
where they're children in the
school and it literally you

737
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,760
wouldn't even.
Know yeah, so it's completely

738
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,560
fine I think my experience with
that having seen it work

739
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,920
absolutely fine I'd I think I'd
actually if I was working in a

740
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,280
school I think I'd probably
choose that my son to come to my

741
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,560
really.
Yeah, I think I'd probably

742
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,160
choose the other way.
And again, I think there's pros

743
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,920
and cons You've you've outlined
the cons.

744
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,760
Well, I think I think the pros
are it, it Eva serves as

745
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,400
something to help anxiety.
If if they're still anxious, I

746
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,920
think it can, I think it can
help depending on the child

747
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,000
again.
But also I think that I, I just

748
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,960
it's easier.
What's the word pragmatically

749
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,040
for like my day?
Like, yeah, yeah, that's true.

750
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,000
I'm just going into school.
We're just going in together.

751
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,720
Proper perks.
Whereas thinking, oh God, I've

752
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,080
got to drop you at the school 15
minutes away, beat the rush

753
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,800
hour, get into school late.
Oh God, I've got to sort my

754
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,200
stuff out.
I think it's just easier in that

755
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,920
respect to do that again.
I actually don't think there's a

756
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,120
right answer here.
I would not say never do it and

757
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,960
I would not say always do it.
Would your personal opinion

758
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,960
change when thinking about
secondary school?

759
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,440
Because I imagine you're
thinking about primary school

760
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:37,360
right now because that's our
life.

761
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,240
Would it change if you were a
secondary school teacher?

762
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,680
Is that do you have any
difference in opinion?

763
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,960
That's so true.
I think probably I think because

764
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,480
what becomes more what, what
outweighs it a lot more

765
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,600
secondary is just the way my
child would be treated.

766
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,920
Like as soon as teenagers know
that your classmate like mum is

767
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,240
the English teacher or your
classmate's dad is the physics

768
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,920
teacher.
There is there is just a slight

769
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,520
thing where me personally are
going to be like, let's avoid

770
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,840
that if we can.
It's a tricky one because if the

771
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,960
best school in the area was the
one I happened to work at that

772
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,000
way that way again, and I'm
like, well, this is the best

773
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,720
school actually to just come.
We can sort that stuff out.

774
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,680
Whereas kids, I've never ever
actually genuinely in a primary

775
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,120
school ever seen a child be
bullied or harassed or anything

776
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,600
because their mom, if anything,
it's cool.

777
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,880
Yeah, your dad's here.
Your dad's missed the price.

778
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,280
What?
That's cool.

779
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,360
When you were talking, it made
me realise that I was absolutely

780
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,120
thinking about a secondary
school and I was thinking about

781
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,040
the cons primary school.
I've actually only ever seen it

782
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,200
work and I've seen it work like
so many times where I'm like, I

783
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,320
can't really argue with it.
It's like I've had 10s of staff

784
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:34,880
like members with their kids at
school.

785
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,120
Whereas I do think back to
secondary school and I just

786
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,120
remember that kid in IU group
who's who's mum and hilariously

787
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:41,440
you said it was the English
teacher.

788
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,120
And I was like, it didn't make
me ACT any different towards

789
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,640
them, but I was just hyper aware
of it.

790
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,960
And I, and I'm exposed myself
here really as a silly kid, as

791
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,160
someone who wanted to mess
around, you know, be a bit

792
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,640
naughty sometimes.
I was like, obviously I'm not

793
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,360
gonna do it near that person
because they'll tell their mum,

794
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:56,840
right?
Like, and it, I just don't know.

795
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,280
It just made me think, oh that
must be annoying because now

796
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,560
that I'm not interacting with
them in that way when maybe I

797
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,480
would have, I don't know.
And as, as that child, I imagine

798
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,000
it can become more isolating.
Yeah.

799
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,400
Did you ever watch that?
This isn't about teaching, but

800
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,640
did you ever watch that
miniseries Adolescence.

801
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:12,640
Yes.
On Netflix.

802
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,080
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there was one of the

803
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,480
detectives went into the school
and his son was in that school.

804
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,600
That's right.
And and you could just tell that

805
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,400
that that son was really
reluctant to talk to his dad

806
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,680
about it, but that also every
other kid in the whole school

807
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,880
was like, your dad's a copper
can't talk to you about it.

808
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:29,880
Your dad's this, your dad's
that.

809
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it just isolated that kid a

810
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,320
bit.
And it just, it, it kind of put

811
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,480
onto the child something that,
you know, if you can avoid it, I

812
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,520
can see why some people do.
Yeah, obviously in that

813
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,280
situation, it can't be pointed
to a police officer.

814
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:42,640
You get.
I'm not saying, I'm not saying

815
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:43,720
quit your job.
Don't.

816
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:45,920
Don't interrogate that person.
You heard it here.

817
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:46,800
Sorry, Dylan.
You can stop there.

818
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,800
I'll just summarise for you.
So what Dylan is saying here is

819
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,880
if you're a teacher, do not have
your child in your school, and

820
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,960
if you're a police officer and
you're just gonna have to move,

821
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,720
you have to go somewhere.
Your child's gonna have to go to

822
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,200
school in a different county,
but no one knows you.

823
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,080
It's just impossible.
That's what Dylan has said in

824
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,280
this podcast.
You actually heard it here

825
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,440
first.
It's crazy that he said that.

826
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,640
I think maybe for the first time
in history, you might actually

827
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,720
clip something in this podcast
just to just to expose.

828
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,120
I'm not going to do it.
I'm not going to do that.

829
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:09,960
I'm not.
I'm not here to work, mate.

830
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,080
Oh.
Gosh, right.

831
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,680
Another question from our
WhatsApp group.

832
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,360
You can join down below.
Why don't you give us a review

833
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,880
while you're here?
No, you're here the review.

834
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,040
Because I've said this before,
Hayden, but I see the number of

835
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,840
people who listen to this
podcast and I see the number of

836
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,920
reviews we've got, and they are
nowhere near the same.

837
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,040
You sound like a YouTube broken
record.

838
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,000
You know that 97% of people who
watch this are not following and

839
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,800
subscribing.
They're American as well.

840
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,960
For some reason that's
absolutely true.

841
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,120
OK, should parents be able to
opt children out of certain

842
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,160
topics in the school curriculum,
EG religious studies, sex

843
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,560
education?
But if this is still something

844
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,600
you should opt them out of,
where is the line?

845
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,400
Oh this is such a controversial
1, isn't it?

846
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,600
Because my gut feeling is no,
that's.

847
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,160
So interesting, Why not?
I don't know, I need to explore

848
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,640
this in my mind right now.
Is your gut feeling Yes.

849
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:04,680
Sorry why I don't.
Know I don't want to say

850
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,640
something.
I was good and then my opinion

851
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:07,920
changes in eight, eight seconds
later.

852
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,600
No, it's fine.
This is this is this is, by the

853
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,160
way, one of the cons of you
doing absolutely no prep work.

854
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,960
Yeah, I knew this question was
going on.

855
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:17,000
Yeah, you did.
Yeah.

856
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,560
I think it's basically this is
where I'm happy to be wrong

857
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,520
because I think it's based on my
personal experiences as a

858
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,040
teacher.
The few times that someone has

859
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,120
asked for their child not to be
included, I've always thought it

860
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,240
wasn't a good enough reason.
Right.

861
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,160
I've always thought is they
should be learning this.

862
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,160
Is me not wanting my child to do
that not enough for a reason?

863
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:36,720
Wait, no, it is enough for a
reason.

864
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,080
Because I've obviously always
been OK.

865
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,240
I'm not sure, but in my head,
like I'm thinking, Oh, my

866
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,960
opinion in that moment is, oh, I
don't think you're.

867
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,880
OK, so, so let me be really
clear.

868
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,000
Yeah, this says should parents
be able to do it?

869
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,160
It sounds It sounds like you're
saying they should.

870
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,240
Be able to, Yes, absolutely.
In fact, that's like a hard yes.

871
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,040
I have no qualms with that.
Right.

872
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,480
But have there been times where
where I think they're wrong?

873
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,360
Yeah, I think so.
OK, you know.

874
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,120
So let's extrapolate that you so
you think sex education, yes or

875
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,480
no should be able to opt out.
Well, the answer is yes to

876
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,320
everything, by the way.
OK, so you should be able to opt

877
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,679
out of history.
I should be able to opt out.

878
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:10,920
Yeah, I think it has to be yes
or no.

879
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,199
I see.
I think that has to be, isn't

880
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,440
it?
And so why do we get to draw the

881
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:15,920
line of what we think that kids
can learn?

882
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:16,960
Because surely that's just
opinion.

883
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,199
That's just down to our opinion
then, isn't?

884
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:20,520
It yeah, but I think that there
comes to a point where you're

885
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:21,880
like, OK, you don't come to the
school anymore.

886
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,560
Like if you went to a school and
you said I want to optimal of

887
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,679
maths, I'd be like, OK, go and
homeschool them.

888
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,920
Yeah, that's fair.
Whereas what I'm saying is that

889
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,159
what this question is basically
saying is at what point should a

890
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:34,800
parent be able to opt a chart
out?

891
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,719
But they still attend that
school and you still, you still

892
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,040
provide move stuff.
You can't stop that.

893
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,480
Everything don't come to the
school anymore.

894
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,560
Yeah.
So for example, if a parent came

895
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,239
to you in a school and said I
want to ask my child out of

896
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,040
sexual education, you are saying
yes, you should be able to do

897
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,040
that and the school will provide
an alternative provision whilst

898
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,320
learning about sexual education.
I think that's normal.

899
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,200
So for religious studies.
No, I don't think so.

900
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,880
But also just going back to sex
Ed, by the way, my general gut

901
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,920
opinion is also like, I always
think it's wrong when that's

902
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:03,800
happened.
I'm always like, no you

903
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:04,800
shouldn't.
That's fine, that's fine, but

904
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,880
I'm very much saying that let's
just literally let's concentrate

905
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,320
on should should it be allowed
right, that a parent comes up to

906
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,040
your school and says I'm opting
my child out of this and you set

907
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:17,600
up a different provision for
them I'm going to go through

908
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,200
some lessons All right go on sex
education, yes religious

909
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,040
studies, no.
So OK, let's dive into that.

910
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,800
When in the past we've had
people of certain faiths in

911
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,560
school, I, Jehovah Witnesses,
who said I want to take my car,

912
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,840
I want to take my child out of
these religious studies or

913
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,760
you're going to the church.
I don't want my car to do that.

914
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,360
You don't think they should be
allowed to opt out?

915
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:37,440
Going to the church is
different.

916
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:39,640
That as a trip, I'm like, fair
enough, because it is literally

917
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,440
taking the kids to a holy place.
And like that's that's different

918
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,120
to me, to the subject of REI.
Don't think they should be able

919
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,000
to know.
OK cool.

920
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,440
So you just at that point you
say no, they've got to be in

921
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,240
this RE lesson or leave the
school.

922
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:51,680
I think that's how it should be.
Wow.

923
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
None so hard and they leave the

924
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:54,760
school.
I don't know.

925
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,240
I think we have to.
There's a weird give or take.

926
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,280
Take middle grammar.
I'm like, I don't think even as

927
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,640
a head teacher I'd still
wouldn't think they should be

928
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,080
able to opt out of RE.
But obviously I'd have that

929
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,560
discussion because I don't think
a child should then not be

930
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,200
allowed at my school to learn
English from master core

931
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,200
curriculum over not wanting to
do RE.

932
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,720
And I know it's different
because we talk about history

933
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:13,520
and I'm like, oh, I don't know
where?

934
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,360
Where is that line?
So would you, would you, would

935
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,200
you allow a parent to be like,
listen, I'll do the history,

936
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,040
mate.
Yes, this woke agenda.

937
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,400
I don't want any of this woke
nonsense in this curriculum.

938
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,680
I'm a reformer and I think
you're indoctrinating my kids no

939
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:26,520
history.
Thank you.

940
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,240
Should they be allowed to?
I don't think so.

941
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:30,760
No, I don't think so, which is
what And I do literally feel the

942
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,120
same about REI just know that
with RE that is in real life

943
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:35,160
that doesn't happen with
history.

944
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,360
Whereas in real life it does
happen with RE, which I mean, so

945
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,720
I know in real life in as in in
reality, people do actually take

946
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:43,360
their kids out of RE for various
like you said, you might have a

947
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:44,920
Jehovah's Witness family that
say, I don't want my kid

948
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,200
learning this topic on
Christianity.

949
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,240
I don't want my kid learning
this topic on Islam.

950
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,280
That actually happens like quite
a lot.

951
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,480
Whereas you don't get that in
history.

952
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,520
So clearly is a different they
could do because.

953
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,840
That we're moving that way maybe
where more parents would be

954
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,000
like, no, I just don't agree
with this.

955
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,720
My kid learning about this.
You're you're you're putting

956
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:01,280
this agenda across and I don't
like it.

957
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,120
Whether whether that parents
right or not.

958
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:04,240
I'm not having a discussion
right now.

959
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,240
I'm just saying as a parent
should you be allowed to say I

960
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:12,080
don't want my kid to learn this?
You can say it, but I'm not

961
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,320
having it in my school.
Sex Ed, I think is a bit

962
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,800
different because it is just it
is just sense.

963
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,040
Having taught sex there for
many, many years, I can see that

964
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,480
it is a lot more personally
effective and and sensitive in

965
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,640
terms of like the content and
the and what it is.

966
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,240
So I completely appreciate the
idea that parents want to have

967
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:31,920
reserve those conversations for
different times.

968
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,160
That's that is fine to me.
But RE is like it is really

969
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,560
realistically to me, it is the
same as saying history or

970
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,040
geography.
It is a subject.

971
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,800
You're literally just, it's not
about indoctrination in any way.

972
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,160
It's literally you're learning
about what people in this world.

973
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,800
But neither said leaving,
neither sex Ed.

974
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,680
Neve.
Sex Ed's just you're learning

975
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,920
how penis.
Becomes.

976
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,440
Direct.
You're learning how I think it's

977
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:53,840
fertilised.
I know.

978
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,800
And I think the science.
So it's so funny because I have

979
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,240
these arguments and I'll say to
people, it is just the science

980
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:00,280
quick thing.
We have to teach this.

981
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,480
OK, so like for example, in sex
Ed and PSHE and stuff etcetera,

982
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,200
you're learning about different
relationships and there might be

983
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,480
someone out there who's quite
bigoted and I don't want my kid

984
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,080
learning about same sex
relationships, they're too

985
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,360
young, blah blah blah.
Why is that different to you?

986
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:15,680
I don't want my kid learning
about seekers.

987
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:16,800
I don't want them to become a
Sikh.

988
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,080
So you're saying you should be
allowed to or or you shouldn't

989
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,080
be allowed is what you're
saying?

990
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,080
Do one, but you should be
allowed to take them out the

991
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,200
other just.
To clarify, I don't think

992
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:26,720
they're very different, but the
the point with sex Ed is it's

993
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:31,160
like I no one's no one's passing
out in my RE lesson.

994
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:32,360
Do you know what I mean?
Like kids.

995
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,280
Kids can genuinely like
literally.

996
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:35,560
They might pass out history
properly.

997
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,400
Maybe we'll talk about
mummification.

998
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,320
We're talking about, you know,
we're talking about scraping the

999
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,480
brain out of a nose.
Like some people could say,

1000
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,400
well, that's just that's, that's
a bit sensitive.

1001
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,480
There's not a picture of a big
Willy on the ball when I'm doing

1002
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:47,920
that.
Mate, no, I know shit.

1003
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:51,920
I'm not, you know, in sex it's a
mummification process.

1004
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,160
That's what I mean.
Like you can talk.

1005
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:54,800
I don't know.
I feel like it's so.

1006
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:56,640
We're drawing the line, but in.
Detail.

1007
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,000
Yeah, I just, I, I think it is
it's a good question because

1008
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,880
there is I think there is a line
somewhere and I think there's a

1009
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,720
reason that people do actually
take their kids out of sex head

1010
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:06,440
a lot and they don't actually
take their kids out of history.

1011
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:07,960
There's clearly some reason for
that.

1012
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,280
I'm just trying to find what it.
Is so I guess what I'm really

1013
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:11,600
really, I'm being quite harsh on
you here.

1014
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:12,840
I'm asking you a really harsh
question.

1015
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,400
No, but but I guess what I'm.
What I'm really, really, really

1016
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,880
getting at is it like inevitably
has to be an arbitrary line.

1017
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,240
Yeah, right there there has to
be that arbitrary line has to be

1018
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:23,760
drawn by someone.
OK.

1019
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,480
And unless you're going to go to
the extremes of you can't opt

1020
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,640
out of anything or you can opt
out of everything, you have to

1021
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,360
draw that line yourself.
And I'm just exploring why.

1022
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,000
Why is the line sexual
reproduction?

1023
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,720
Now you can, you don't have to
do that.

1024
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,600
You know, different
relationships between different

1025
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,640
people.
You have to do that whether you

1026
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,520
agree with the politics or not.
I'm not saying I do remotely, by

1027
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:46,960
the way.
I'm just talking about the right

1028
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,400
of a parent to have their child
not learn something.

1029
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,000
Are we the arbiters of that
line, or are the parents the

1030
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,520
arbiters of that line?
Ultimately, ultimately the

1031
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,600
parents are, which is why the
original or the original

1032
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,360
question, I thought, which is
like, do the parents have the

1033
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:02,680
right to take their kids out of
school?

1034
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,880
Is always going to be yes.
Yes, that's why I'm scolding

1035
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,480
exists.
Exactly exists and I have a

1036
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,920
problem with it, but the optimal
outcome for me is you.

1037
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,120
You can't.
The school has a curriculum and

1038
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,680
by being in the school, you are
automatically opting in.

1039
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,000
And there is no choice to the
curriculum we teach.

1040
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,760
If you have a problem with the
curriculum, take it up with the

1041
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,680
government.
I am not choosing that sex Ed is

1042
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,520
taught in this PSHPSHE because
RE isn't statutory, right, is it

1043
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:26,880
not?
No.

1044
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,400
Oh, no, because some schools
don't teach you that.

1045
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:29,960
So that's yeah, Yeah.
So.

1046
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,280
So.
Again, that has to be opted in.

1047
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,880
All right then, really doesn't.
It yeah, I guess so when you're

1048
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,000
joining, when you're joining a
school, but then it goes down to

1049
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,760
what's the only school around
the corner, like it has to join

1050
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,320
this school and it's such a
complex.

1051
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:41,840
Exactly.
And if the line is just

1052
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,160
indoctrination, but I think I
think your point is really good.

1053
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,400
It's like Ari is not
indoctrination.

1054
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,160
It's just learning how different
people live their lives in the

1055
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,200
society that you're going to be
brought up and live in.

1056
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,600
And it's good to understand how
other people have their views of

1057
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,680
the world, right.
But we're still saying you

1058
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,720
should be able to opt out of it.
So, so I'm just saying if we, if

1059
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:01,560
we're saying it's not
indoctrination, but you can opt

1060
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,120
out of it because traditionally
more people do it.

1061
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,080
Yeah, yeah.
Why can you not just apply the

1062
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,760
same thing of history?
It's not indoctrination.

1063
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:08,800
We're teaching historical
skills.

1064
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,400
We're looking at artefacts,
we're looking at sources.

1065
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,960
We're just interpreting them, OK
PSHE.

1066
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,720
We're not indoctrinating.
We're just talking about this is

1067
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:16,400
literally how some people live
their lives in this world that

1068
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,280
you'll grow up in.
It might be you and it might be

1069
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,960
your mate and it might be no one
you've ever met in your life,

1070
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,680
but it's what people are.
Why then do we not also have?

1071
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,400
But you can opt out then because
we've just decided.

1072
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,160
Yeah, I don't know.
But just to clarify, I said we

1073
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:27,160
shouldn't be able to opt out of
RA.

1074
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:28,920
Sure.
The only one I was I'm in an RN

1075
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,200
about is sex Ed.
And it is based on my experience

1076
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,920
of it being so intense.
And I think it all probably

1077
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,560
boils down from history in terms
of it's very much accepted that

1078
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,080
in the same way we had a
conversation about should we be

1079
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,480
teaching kids to use knives and
forks?

1080
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,480
Yeah, it's very much been
accepted in all of history that

1081
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,680
it's a very family LED topic to
teach you the birds and the

1082
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:45,800
bees.
You know, you have that talk

1083
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:47,960
with your with your kids when
you feel they're ready and it's

1084
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,000
extremely personal and it should
be something at home.

1085
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,080
I think there's still a huge
argument for that, which is why

1086
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,160
I have more sympathy for parents
with specifically within sex Ed.

1087
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,000
I don't have sympathy you you
made a point earlier and about

1088
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,800
if someone came up to me and
said I don't, you know, I don't

1089
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,440
want my kid to learn about same
sex, but I but I want to do all

1090
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:03,760
the rest.
I don't have sympathy for that

1091
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,800
because I think that is just
like I just I just think that's

1092
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,720
right.
I just think I'm not going to be

1093
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:10,880
part of that agenda like
teaching, teaching children that

1094
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,960
like, it's just, I want to be
scientific about it.

1095
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,240
I don't want to be too political
about.

1096
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,200
It not even necessarily always
scientific, just like this is

1097
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,760
what the world is though, like
these people exist and you can't

1098
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,480
just ignore that and and again,
it's not in.

1099
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,920
I've had it happen, by the way.
I've had an experience many,

1100
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,480
many, many years ago of a
family.

1101
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,840
I won't give too many details,
so it's not like giving away who

1102
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,400
like who it is, whatever, but.
It was, your mum wasn't.

1103
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,200
It yeah, I wasn't allowed in sex
Ed.

1104
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,520
No, I had a family.
I was a year 6 teacher.

1105
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,000
I've been a year 6 teacher for
most of my career.

1106
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,480
And they came in and they
genuinely had that exact

1107
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,560
concern.
They were they were only worried

1108
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,480
about the idea that their child
might be exposed to the concept

1109
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,320
of same sex.
They won't worry about will you

1110
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,200
go into detail about it.
They would just wanted to know

1111
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,000
is there any representation
within these lessons of same sex

1112
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:01,200
relationships?
Because if there was, he wasn't

1113
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:02,560
going to do it.
He wasn't going to be a part of

1114
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:03,960
this.
How long are they hoping to

1115
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,320
shield?
I don't think like, but it was a

1116
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,160
really hard experience for me
because firstly, like as a

1117
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,680
teacher you've there is some
like professional line and they

1118
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,800
were being very polite about
they weren't coming in like guns

1119
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,040
blazing.
They were they were genuine

1120
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,440
asking and yes, it was obviously
for religious reasons.

1121
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,800
I found it extremely hard
because there was like the some

1122
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,080
representation of same sex in
that which I obviously in my

1123
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,640
head I was like, I didn't
consider this the reason the

1124
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:26,880
book that you pick up in the
library.

1125
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,720
I know, I know what what while
they live in is that you can't

1126
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,600
see it.
Yeah, yeah, you have the right

1127
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,480
to not do.
It it was such an awkward

1128
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,080
conversation.
You have the right to not live

1129
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,800
in the world without it.
I know, I know.

1130
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,080
And obviously as a human being,
I'm thinking this as well in

1131
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,560
this, in this time.
And there was basically said,

1132
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:42,880
yeah, because we, we don't, we
don't agree with it.

1133
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:44,080
We don't think.
It's right, this is.

1134
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,800
Perfect.
And I think, well, OK, so far.

1135
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,000
And I said OK, but I think
you're wrong.

1136
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,760
And I had this very, very
awkward conversation where it's

1137
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,080
like now it's just this take
away teacher and parent.

1138
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,080
Now we're basically just sitting
there.

1139
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,800
Are we apparently now just
sitting here in a classroom

1140
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,160
arguing about same sex
relationships because it's

1141
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,440
mental?
And not even that I'm not, it's

1142
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,000
not what some people think.
Like we're teaching you how to

1143
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:03,920
become gay.
Yeah.

1144
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,320
No, just saying that this.
Exists and is an option and

1145
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,080
there might be a family in that
classroom whose parents are in a

1146
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,040
same sex marriage.
Like it's representation, are

1147
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,480
you?
Yes, I should have said yes

1148
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:15,440
actually.
There's nothing there.

1149
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,560
And it's all exclusively white
men as well in all of the only

1150
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:19,720
them.
We only represent white men in

1151
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:20,920
this.
I don't mind representation in

1152
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,640
that respect, just not
representation in this respect.

1153
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,760
Come on.
So this is the perfect example

1154
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,040
then in that situation, do you
think the school should be able

1155
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,880
to say sure you can opt out?
No, I don't think so because I

1156
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,640
really, because I just think
it's so wrong that like and

1157
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,720
again, but the problem is it
does come down to a personal

1158
00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:41,600
thing.
I think it's so wrong that we

1159
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,080
that we could allow such a like
old backwards thinking about

1160
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,000
same sex and and homosexuality
in this day and age to still be

1161
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,600
prevalent in the classroom.
But look, I might get a pushback

1162
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,480
for this because I don't I am
fundamentally on your side here

1163
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,240
and I think children need
representation.

1164
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:05,680
But my just my gut instinct is
that telling a parent, no, you

1165
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,640
don't have a choice in your
child's education in that

1166
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,640
respect, whether I think it's
good or not, right?

1167
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,440
I just think, is that an
overreach of our job?

1168
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:17,520
I don't think so, because at the
end of the day, you're giving

1169
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:18,960
the information.
If I don't want, I'm not

1170
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,520
actually gonna go and pick up
that kid from home.

1171
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,720
Yeah, what?
I'm basically confirming that

1172
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:24,960
parent is right.
I'm not changing the curriculum

1173
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,720
or my structure of my lesson or
removing your child and giving

1174
00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:30,200
them a different task if they're
not in school that day.

1175
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:31,600
That's up to you.
I'm not gonna come and get them.

1176
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,320
You know I mean, but I'm not.
They still get fine should they

1177
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,880
be able to opt out of it
reasonably and because of the

1178
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,480
grounds of the parent deciding.
Listen, I've opted out.

1179
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,040
I'm not expecting you to change
anything.

1180
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,520
I'm not expecting you to put my
child up.

1181
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,400
I'll come and pick up my child
at 2 when this lesson starts and

1182
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,560
I'll see you tomorrow.
But I've just chosen my kid not

1183
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,440
to do that.
Yeah, I think that's where the

1184
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:51,680
give and take is.
I'm not going to find out.

1185
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,000
I'm just going to get over this
experience.

1186
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,840
And I think I think it's wrong.
I think they shouldn't be doing

1187
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,040
that, but let's just move on.
That's basically where I'd be at

1188
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:58,960
that point.
I love that chat, it's so.

1189
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,360
Hard though isn't it?
It is way what we are talking

1190
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,960
about is genuinely where like
personal opinions and politics.

1191
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,040
Yeah, with school life, but but,
but like I'm going to flip now

1192
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,280
because I've I've kind of played
the role of like arguing with

1193
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,040
you and stuff.
And and for the other side, to

1194
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,080
me, that's not politics.
Like when people say, oh, stop

1195
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,640
playing politics, what about gay
people existing?

1196
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,480
What on earth are you talking
about that that's politics?

1197
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,280
What are you?
What do you mean?

1198
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,680
It would be politics if it was
indoctrination by saying this is

1199
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,640
how you should live your life,
kids, whether it's a lifestyle,

1200
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,880
choice of who your partner is,
whether it's a religion,

1201
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:37,120
whatever it is so.
Do you think representation is

1202
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:38,480
never, never politics based
then?

1203
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,760
Like if we were saying, OK,
we're going to start, you know,

1204
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,800
OK, part of this now is the
trans community.

1205
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm, what I'm saying is it's

1206
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,160
never politics to simply
acknowledge someone exists.

1207
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:50,760
Yeah, of course, but that's what
I'm saying.

1208
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,280
So, so when I'm saying
representation of like if we're

1209
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,200
talking about relationships
people have, right, I'm not only

1210
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,320
going to teach the class the
relationships that they've seen

1211
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,560
in their life and have existed
for just them, right.

1212
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:08,680
So you might have a child who,
let's say a child is white,

1213
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:11,680
white child in a heterosexual
family.

1214
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,080
And I'm not only going to show
them what they, what they know

1215
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,480
of and what they've seen in
their household ever, I'm going

1216
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,560
to show them all types of things
because I want them to know that

1217
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:22,680
there are other people in this
world.

1218
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there are people who have

1219
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:24,480
same sex.
I'm not.

1220
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,200
Going to talk about whether we
agree with it in this lesson or

1221
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,560
not it's.
Nothing to do with me or you.

1222
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,560
Like, yeah, I personally think
it's mental that you would ever

1223
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:31,560
disagree with anything like
this.

1224
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,400
But that's not my job in this
respect.

1225
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,440
My job in this respect, as the
teacher is to show you that this

1226
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,280
is how people live their lives.
I have delivered a whole unit on

1227
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,160
Sikhism.
I have delivered with the whole

1228
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,040
unit on Islam.
I've delivered a whole unit on

1229
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,800
different relationships that
families have.

1230
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,360
None of them represent me.
And I'm not even religious.

1231
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,640
Yeah, that's what I mean.
I'm an atheist, right?

1232
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,040
But I'm not at the end going.
Oh, and by the way, this is

1233
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,160
nonsense.
Like you should all be atheists

1234
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:57,080
because I am.
Do you think?

1235
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:58,240
Some people are though in
teaching.

1236
00:47:58,240 --> 00:47:59,400
Yes, completely.
And I think that's wrong.

1237
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,400
I mean, that's absolutely wrong.
Because that's what gets the

1238
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,680
flag and that's what people.
Pick up on so small.

1239
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,360
Yeah.
And what what it gets conflated

1240
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,000
with then is talking about it
ever.

1241
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,520
And then people might hear of
one story of someone saying no

1242
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:11,840
go this is how you should live
your life.

1243
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,320
Everyone else is is ridiculous.
They're they're they're a

1244
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,640
fascist, they're racist and
they're horrible, whatever which

1245
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,800
way it might be.
And you're like, that's awful.

1246
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:19,800
That's an overreach.
Don't do that.

1247
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,920
As a teacher, that's mine.
But then someone clamps onto

1248
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,640
that and goes, yeah, therefore
we should never talk about it

1249
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:24,840
because they're indoctrinating
our kids.

1250
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,760
No, what's happening in 99% of
schools is we're just having a

1251
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,600
really good inclusive chat about
representation, saying these

1252
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,120
people exist not remotely
telling you how to live your

1253
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,320
life, rather explaining the
world you live in.

1254
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,440
What do you think about people
that say along those lines of

1255
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,800
that counter argument where they
say OK, we will accept that

1256
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:42,960
maybe there are some teachers
that are abusing this and not

1257
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,120
doing it correctly.
Like maybe even it's like nought

1258
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,520
.5% of teachers and you know,
we're saying clearly it's vastly

1259
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,320
not that it's been
disproportionate, but what if

1260
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,280
they say, yeah, OK, but it is
still happening some places and

1261
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,520
the only way we can get that to
complete 0 is just take it out

1262
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:55,960
of the.
Curriculum, yes, that's true.

1263
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,000
And it's the only way we can get
rid of bad maths teaching is to

1264
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,120
get rid of maths completely.
The only way, the only way we

1265
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,680
can get rid of, you know, a
biassed history debate, is to

1266
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,120
get rid of history completely.
Like it's just such a ridiculous

1267
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,280
overreach.
It's like by having a system,

1268
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,120
you're acknowledging there'll be
some people take advantage of

1269
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,360
it, right?
There are some people who claim,

1270
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,840
you know, benefit fraud, who
claim benefits when they

1271
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:16,400
shouldn't.
Should we shut the whole benefit

1272
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,320
system down?
Of course we bloody well

1273
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:19,280
shouldn't.
Yeah, no.

1274
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:20,360
And I'm saying it's the same
thing.

1275
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,160
I'm like, no, because it catches
so many people who need it.

1276
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,360
Vitally, we don't just go, oh,
let's not fix it.

1277
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:26,880
We go, how can we work to make
it better?

1278
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:31,040
And so the system existing and
having some flaws is way better

1279
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,040
than and way more helpful than
the system not existing at all.

1280
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:35,840
I agree.
That's the bottom line of it, I

1281
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,120
think.
I think I almost want to end it

1282
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:38,240
there, like with that
conversation.

1283
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:40,920
Let's do.
Yeah, we did.

1284
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,440
This is this is the worst Q&A
kind of episode we've ever done

1285
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:45,000
in our lives.
I.

1286
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,200
Think we got through two
questions, No great chat, great

1287
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:50,160
chat.
And do you know what we might

1288
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,080
need more questions go down in
the chat, the chat, the WhatsApp

1289
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:54,760
chat link down below.
Join our community.

1290
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,760
You get priority access to
giving us questions.

1291
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,560
And if you enjoyed that chat,
please leave us a review and

1292
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,680
please, please get in touch
because, you know, I think we're

1293
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,600
becoming more and more confident
in talking about these issues

1294
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,400
because there there was time in
the past where I was like, it's

1295
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:10,680
not even worth touching.
No, absolutely.

1296
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:12,280
Because yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but I think I do think

1297
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,560
it's really important to have
these discussions and I would

1298
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,720
love to know people's opinions
both ways, whichever way it

1299
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,680
might be, and then we can have a
real discussion about it and

1300
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,240
maybe we'll come back and suck
around on this in the future.

1301
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:23,400
Yeah, a big topic.
A big topic.

1302
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,320
Definitely right guys.
See you next time.

1303
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,160
Thanks for listening.