Ep 131: Answering Your Questions: Private School Ethics, Teacher Payscales & Becoming A School Leader

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teaching

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name's Hayden.
And we are here with another

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episode of your questions,
Hayden.

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We had some.
We only had to ask them once.

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I know it's brilliant we've had.
Tonnes.

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So many questions, so we're
gonna dive straight into it.

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No messing about this week,
Hayden.

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Question number one, opinions on
the ethics of teaching in

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private school.
Oh, starting off like, you know,

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nice and easy.
Like half.

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I was hoping there's gonna be
some sort of mean questions.

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No, just just the deepest 1 you
can think of.

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The one, the deepest one we've
got.

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What What are your opinions on
the ethics of teaching in a

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private school?
I don't know, it's a hard one.

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Like, do we need to consider
ethics when it comes to picking

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a job?
Like it's just a teacher, It's

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just a, it's just a job.
Like, why is that on me?

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It's just like I don't control
the.

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System, I'm going to do that
thing that really annoys people

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sometimes, but just go to the
complete extreme here.

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Like, of course we have to
consider ethics when you're

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looking for a job.
If the job was working for a mob

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syndicate, cleaning up after
them and their debauchery, you

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would you wouldn't just go,
well, you know, it pays the

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bills.
Maybe you would, I don't know.

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But you have you have to
consider ethics at some.

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Point yeah, you've claimed not
seen my mob.

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My mob dies.
Yeah, I guess so no, you're

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right.
I'm, I'm not really trying to

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say that I'm just, I guess I'm
just thinking I, I feel like the

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questions more along the lines
of maybe it's wrong, but it's

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more along the lines of well.
The questions wrong.

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No, no, maybe I wouldn't think
it wrong.

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Not the question.
Yeah, the question is wrong.

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If it doesn't fit, my answer is
wrong.

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Right again, actually.
Thank you.

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But like, I don't know, should
we be thinking, Oh, I better

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not.
I guess you're right.

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Should should I be thinking I
better not do this job because

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some other people might judge me
because it's private schools.

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I'm just a teacher.
Imagine, right?

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Imagine I'm in an area where
they're I'm a teacher and

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there's just not other there
aren't any other jobs going.

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I can go and teach at this
school.

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I can go and teach at that
school.

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One's private, one's a religious
school, one's a non religious

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school, one's an Academy like.
What?

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Would should that be on me?
Like, like to a degree, I think

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in terms of the ethics of
teaching somewhere like a

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private school, we just have to
not pretend it doesn't exist.

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What?
I'm not I'm not saying if you

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work in a private school, you
are fundamentally damn this root

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of, you know, this this side of
politics.

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And you think that this is OK at
all points.

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Obviously not.
We live in a capitalist society.

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And if we we talk about ever
wanting to change that, when

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someone says, well, you live in
a cat.

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Oh, look at you.
If you're Starbucks in your hand

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talking about capitalism being
bad, it's like, yeah, because

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it's why live in it doesn't
doesn't necessarily mean you

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agree with everything.
But there's a line, is all I'm

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saying.
For example, I know I don't

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think you would work in a
Catholic school, would you?

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No, yeah.
Which is I wouldn't, to be fair.

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And you could and you could be
like, well, it's paying the

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bills.
And in my area, there's just a

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Catholic school, you know, would
that bend your arm if it was the

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only place that's.
A really hard one because I

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actually don't know.
I don't know if I was, if I

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desperately needed a job and
teaching was my thing and that

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was the only school.
Oh, I actually don't know.

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I think I'd, I think I'd really
struggle because I because I

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don't, yeah, you've kind of done
me here.

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Because I don't agree really
with the ethics of what Catholic

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schools, yeah, I don't agree
with.

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Like indoctrinating children.
So that's fine.

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So let's go back to the question
about private schools then.

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Just now.
In your opinion, is that line

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further back?
Obviously to you it is further

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back than what?
How you feel about Catholic

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schools, Yeah.
But is that line further far

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back enough that you would
consider working in a private

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school then?
I would work in a private

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school.
Yeah, I, I think private schools

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in the same way like we, we've
talked about the criticisms of

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academies.
I would also work in an Academy

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if it's the right Academy, if
it's a good school, I'd work in

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it.
Same with private schools.

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I think there are obviously lots
of opinions out there.

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I, I, I think going back to the
original question, I can

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understand that there's a wider
ethical and like consideration

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and conversation to have.
I guess I just took that

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question as should I as a
teacher be like judged or should

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we be judging other teachers if
they go and work in a private

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school because of these wider
ethical considerations?

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And some people would answer
that question and say, yes,

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yeah, because for me,
fundamentally, not for me

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personally, but they might
think, oh, private schools are,

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you know, exacerbating
inequality.

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They're letting that it's the
haves versus the have nots.

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Yeah.
Even when it's, you know, a

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family scrimping and saving to
send their child to private

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school.
OK, you can scrimp and save all

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you want.
If you're on the poverty line,

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you're not ever going to get
enough money to send your kid to

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private school.
So by definition.

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But if you're going, you are
just better off than lots of

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people.
But I, I don't necessarily side

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with that.
I don't necessarily think, I

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don't think here's my here's my
view on this.

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I suppose in your world view,
there's, there's going to be a

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spectrum, right?
There's going to be like black

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and white, very clear one way or
the other where you think I

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agree or I disagree completely.
And there's going to be a grey

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area of stuff where you might
sit down and think like, oh, you

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know what, this is a really
interesting debate.

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Should, should private schools
exist?

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Well, they take the burden off
the state school that, that, you

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know, the state school system is
failing lots of SEND children.

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These are lots of reasons why
children might end up going

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there.
I've worked my money.

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I want to send, I want to spend
my money instead of going on

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holiday with my child 3 * a
year, which I could do, I'd

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rather spend on education and
give them that advantage.

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And it is an advantage.
You know, I think there's lots

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of things in society where it's
a great area to discuss.

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You might come down on one side
or the other because naturally

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you will edge towards one way,
but it it still doesn't

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necessarily mean that it should
never exist or it's completely

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wrong or completely right.
I think that's the issue at the

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minute with something so binary
where you're forced into a

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corner and this for me is one of
them where I'm like, I don't, if

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someone works an Independent
School, I don't really care.

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I was like, hey mate, you're
right, how are you?

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Doing if that person then goes
online saying about how much

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better they are and their
children are at their school

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versus the all of the rest of us
that go to stables, then I've

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probably got a problem saying
hang on a minute, hang on a

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minute.
You're using this as a vessel

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for something else, whereas the
the act of you working at school

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doesn't really bother me.
So 2 questions for you.

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Firstly, would you work in an
Independent School?

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Like would you do that?
Yeah, I I think I would like if

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you lined up schools in a row, I
wouldn't pick it.

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Right, you'd rather work in.
Yeah, personally, just because

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of that thing where you say,
well, you're going to start,

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you're going to go on one side
of the fence, aren't you?

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And you'll have a reference.
I'd I'd rather state education

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be amazing and everyone get a
really good state education.

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That's obviously because.
You're amazing and obviously

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you're working at school and.
That's what you're trying to

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say, isn't it?
I'm going to raise the bar

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myself.
No, definitely.

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It's all down to me.
Obviously me personally, which

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is which is why I left the
system, which I think is broken.

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Yeah.
But yeah, no, I think I, I

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wouldn't necessarily choose to,
but I would.

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Look, there's obviously like if
you just think about it now, you

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I can't think about this for
more than 10 seconds without

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thinking about the fact we've
run a tutoring business.

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Yeah, I know.
Yeah.

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Like, so we're talking about
these that, you know, the

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ability to spend money to widen
a gap.

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And when it comes to education,
it's like, well, yeah, I mean,

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we're already doing that one for
our tutoring.

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There are certain people who
can't afford tutoring and

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through our business, we are
blocking them out.

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Yeah, there's loads of things we
get around.

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That's why we do our YouTube
channel with loads of videos and

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free walkthroughs.
That's why we do a lot of stuff

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for free.
So, you know, there's there's

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things you can do to weigh up
that scale.

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And I don't necessarily think
that private schools, I'm

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working in a private school for
me is past redemption.

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It's not like working for Al
Capone.

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OK, I'll be like, oh, no, Which
I do.

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Which, by the way, Hayden, I
need to leave this podcast now

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because I've got to go to a
bank, do something.

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And rob it because you're now
part of my criminal mob

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organisation.
Exactly.

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That's interesting.
It's it's when you know, because

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it's easy for someone who says,
no, they shouldn't exist to, to

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whack them in that, that kind of
category with very extreme

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people all of a sudden.
And I'm like, OK, look, I

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understand the pros and cons.
I land on this side, but I don't

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think you should be like given
vitriolic abuse because you're

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in that system and you're not
necessarily enabling it.

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You are.
You are.

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Teaching, I mean, yeah, yeah,
like you said, because at the

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end of the day, where where the
state system is so broken, it's

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much more easy now to actually
justify private schools existing

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because it's like, yeah, well,
you said with SEM, we've had

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loads of conversations before,
haven't we, about private

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schools?
And we did the whole thing on

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VAT and people were writing in
saying, yeah, look, I understand

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all of this ideology except the
state schools are broken though.

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And my child has Sen needs and
they are literally not being

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met, whereas they are being met
at this private school.

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And I'm having to find out the
money.

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And I've got no other option if
I want my child to get even

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decent education.
Those situations, I'm like,

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yeah, I can't really Then sit
there and go, yeah, get rid of

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all private schools.
In my ideological world, I can.

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Where there's infinite money and
we can make state schools

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perfect.
That's the best option.

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We don't have anything other
than just the same level of

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state school.
Everyone, all the schools are

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the same and they're all
fantastic.

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But that doesn't actually exist.
So I think one of the most

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dangerous things to do in that
situation is when you've got

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this like ideological idea of
how brilliant things could work

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and should work.
It's it's like when, when you

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are fighting for that, and
especially if you're a

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government, if you're a person,
you can have ideologies and what

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you want to work towards.
Like that's life.

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Of course you do.
The issue comes when the, when

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you have a government who want
to be seen to working towards

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those ideologies without
actually putting in the

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groundwork or the money.
And that's when you get broken

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systems.
Because I feel like that's

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what's currently happening.
A lot of the time it's like

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this, this VAT on private
school.

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I supported that there was a
very big flagship thing for

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00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,600
Labour before the election.
Clearly it's had a massive

227
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,280
detrimental impact to a lot of
families.

228
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,600
And I'm happy to say at this
point that I probably supported

229
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,760
it too much to Willy nilly
without really, really

230
00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,480
considering the impact.
Because if it came along with

231
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,840
unbelievable funding and a state
sector that was booming that

232
00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,560
these people could move straight
into and slot into, I'd be like,

233
00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:01,600
yeah, tough, tough.
We've got an amazing system

234
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,080
here.
If you're choosing to do that,

235
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,280
pay your VAT, of course you
should.

236
00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:06,600
And if you, if you can't afford
it, come into this system

237
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,760
because this is great.
It's kind of not what happened.

238
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,720
We kind of just went, yeah,
they're they're bad, aren't

239
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:11,440
they?
That's awful.

240
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,200
So we're going to put you into
the state system.

241
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:14,880
Oh, nice.
You fixed that, have you?

242
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,800
No, Oh, OK, so it's just worse
for everyone.

243
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,960
There's no there's no end goal.
That's good.

244
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,040
All that happened is the mega
rich continue going to these

245
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,280
private schools you think of
like Eton, etcetera.

246
00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:29,800
There's the private schools that
are much smaller, struggle more

247
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,320
than ever start to close and the
people who were just kind of

248
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,320
living on the breadline for them
relative because they were

249
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:37,640
putting all their money into
private schools.

250
00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,760
And now in the state school,
sure, they have some spare

251
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,360
money, but I don't think they
care too much if their child who

252
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,120
has needs that aren't being met
suddenly is lost in the

253
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,320
classroom.
It's completely.

254
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,280
Broken yeah, I I couldn't yeah,
I agree and I was exactly the

255
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,120
same very quick but like yeah,
get rid of them get yeah pay

256
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:53,600
VAT, get over get over it,
whatever.

257
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,760
But I do think yeah, after
speaking to with some people

258
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,280
that's absolutely right.
So going back to the original

259
00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,920
question, just to re clarify my
thoughts, I think I took it, I

260
00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,360
took it more personally, as in
like, should like you as a

261
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,520
teacher be basically judged on
like, like if you, if you or

262
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,440
ethical views align with private
school equals bad, should we

263
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:12,960
then be saying to other
teachers, you shouldn't be doing

264
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:13,880
that?
Because I don't think that's

265
00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:14,960
true.
I don't think we should judge

266
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,960
teachers on an individual level.
We don't know what situation

267
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,800
they're in as to why they might
be working in a private school

268
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,240
or not.
But yeah, on the whole, you

269
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,960
should probably consider the
ethics, I guess when you're when

270
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,440
you're thinking about what job
you're going to do, do they

271
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,760
align with your own ethics?
They went to the extreme there,

272
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,320
didn't we?
Like there's no ethics at all in

273
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:30,880
what you do future.
Of course there is.

274
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,320
Yeah, literally.
OK, cool.

275
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:33,360
Let's go to the next question
now.

276
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,080
Crikey.
Just as deep, just as

277
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,360
meaningful, just as really
important for us to answer.

278
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:38,320
Let's see what the people come
in.

279
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:39,440
Great.
Let's get my brain going.

280
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,680
What's the largest animal you
could catch fired out of a

281
00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:44,080
cannon?
What?

282
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,880
Brackets and the smallest
because if that question is.

283
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,840
Not enough the largest animal I
could.

284
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,600
Catch went fired out of a
cannon.

285
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,120
Fired out of a cannon.
What could you reckon you could

286
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:54,600
catch because you couldn't catch
a cow?

287
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:55,880
Could you?
I think I could.

288
00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,120
No, you couldn't.
I think I could.

289
00:10:58,640 --> 00:10:59,960
I couldn't.
I couldn't even pick up a cow.

290
00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:03,800
What we're talking about?
I reckon A baboon Drinking a

291
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:04,640
baboon?
Yeah.

292
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:06,120
Drinking a catch run.
I reckon so.

293
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,440
Yeah.
I think it'll take the wind out

294
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,120
of me.
I think it might be on the

295
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,520
floor, but I think I could catch
it.

296
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,040
How can a dog?
I was thinking of a hefty dog.

297
00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:14,760
Hefty dog?
Yeah, hefty dog.

298
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:15,920
Well, like a little Chihuahua,
obviously.

299
00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,160
Thinking of a baboon and a
hefty.

300
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:18,560
Dog.
Yeah, a hefty dog, I think like

301
00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,200
a, you know, one of those, what
are those big dogs called?

302
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:22,960
Great Danes.
Yeah, I reckon, I reckon.

303
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,320
If you if.
You lined, If you just lined it

304
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,680
up, I reckon I could put my arm
around it.

305
00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:27,760
It might throw me back,
obviously.

306
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,720
But way.
Yeah, 100% smallest small.

307
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,920
I mean, like an Ann knew I
wouldn't be a catcher.

308
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:33,520
That's true.
Yeah.

309
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,240
I was about to say, what's the
smallest animal I can think?

310
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,440
Animal I can think of the
smallest animal I could catch.

311
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,240
Maybe a goldfish?
Slippery go for like a gerbil.

312
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,800
Yeah, no, no, a dry goldfish.
A dry goldfish.

313
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,120
A dead man did with a towel
first.

314
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,520
Dead.
Poor goldfish just for this

315
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:47,680
experiment.
A gerbil.

316
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,000
A gerbil?
I've got a gerbil in the Great

317
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,600
Dane.
Oh yeah, Don't fire them out of

318
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,640
a cannon there.
Yeah, maybe this this hyper

319
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,200
material question was run by
professionals.

320
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,720
What are the ethics of starting
to think I shouldn't take this

321
00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,760
job?
What's the ethics of loading a

322
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,840
Doberman into a cannon?
Don't do it, my friend.

323
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,440
Who's worse?
The person who finds who fires a

324
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:07,520
Doberman out of a cabinet?
Well.

325
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,880
The person who doesn't catch it.
Everybody goes out the person at

326
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,200
a private school, that's what
they're up to over there, not

327
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,600
following the curriculum.
OK, right, next one next

328
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,280
question.
Good question 22.

329
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,240
They're they're the two types of
questions for for future

330
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,640
reference, everyone if your
questions fall into those

331
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,640
categories of really deep, like
thoughtful, I love that kind of

332
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,440
discussion.
And then something ridiculous

333
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,200
like that.
Great, complete nothing takes

334
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,920
the box completely next one.
What's your views on climbing

335
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,000
the pay scale and is it worth
it?

336
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,080
Oh.
We're going back to a deep one

337
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:39,360
then.
Wow.

338
00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,560
OK.
I see this as two questions.

339
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:45,440
I remember you.
Yeah, yeah, because I see one of

340
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,080
them as your yearly progression
going up the pay scale.

341
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:50,960
It's almost a non question.
Like do it.

342
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,280
Yeah, of course.
I was about to say like, it's

343
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,240
not really almost an opinion.
It's like, yeah, you just, yeah,

344
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,600
you just go up the pay scale.
Like there, there shouldn't be

345
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,080
an example when you're not going
up the pay scale.

346
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,000
That's just not how it works
that you go up the pay scale.

347
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,160
So I don't really have an
opinion on doing I guess I have

348
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,040
an opinion on schools that try
to flirt around the rules and

349
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,480
stop people going up pay scales,
especially with the main pay

350
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,880
scale UPS is a whole another
thing isn't it?

351
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,840
Yeah, that's that's kind of the
grey area between the two points

352
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,280
because 1 is just you go up
every year and that includes UPS

353
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:19,760
to be fair.
But the other part of this

354
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,200
question might be something like
climb the pay scale in terms of

355
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,120
going into leadership or adding
a TLR or responsibility or

356
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,160
something like that.
So let's just talk about that

357
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,520
really quickly because I think
if you are going to be adding

358
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,560
responsibility to what you do,
you should absolutely only be

359
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,400
doing that with a pay rise.
So when is it worth it?

360
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,800
For some people, yes, for some
people, no.

361
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,160
Like a TLR might be great for
someone you think, oh, that's

362
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,320
all I need.
That's fantastic.

363
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,000
Don't be afraid, I would say, to
someone to not take a job on

364
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:48,160
because you aren't either given
the money for it or you are

365
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,120
given the money and you think
that's just not worth my time.

366
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,640
Yeah, yeah.
Don't be afraid to say no.

367
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,840
And also the other way around,
you might be using it for

368
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,560
leverage.
Other people like us might say,

369
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:56,720
don't do that if you're not
getting paid.

370
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,920
You might be thinking, yeah, but
in my in my master plan, if I do

371
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:00,600
this for a year, I know it's
going to give me the right

372
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:01,920
leverage to get this next thing
I want.

373
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,240
And for you, that might be worth
it.

374
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:04,840
And I'm not going to sit here
and say, no, you shouldn't do

375
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:05,880
it.
There's only one way to do it.

376
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,240
But yeah, I just think it is.
It honestly is personal.

377
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,040
When I first, when I took my
first ever TLR, which was for

378
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,600
being a mass lead, I honestly
probably would have done it for

379
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,640
free at that time because I was
thinking I need, I want this, I

380
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,960
want to get this under my belt.
And I was loving it so much.

381
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,640
And my circumstances were I
lived at home with my mum, I

382
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,800
didn't have a child.
I'd I had so much more free

383
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,840
time, it was fine for me then.
You would not catch me doing

384
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,000
honestly any extra
responsibilities outside my

385
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,440
teaching role now unless it came
with money, because that's just

386
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,960
ridiculous to me now, Yeah.
So do you find that as an issue

387
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,960
though when if there's someone
at the school who's more

388
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,080
experienced in the position you
are in now, let's say 33 year

389
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,560
old you and 24 year old you, is
that an issue though?

390
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,960
When 24 year old you were saying
oh I'd do it for free and 33

391
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,040
year old is saying no of course
I'm not going to do it for free.

392
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,800
It's not an even footing man.
Like that 24 year old has

393
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,800
created a situation where you'll
go for the more maybe

394
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,400
inexperienced one who would do a
worse job because they're

395
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,120
cheaper.
Whereas you're frustrated then

396
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,680
because you think well if you
didn't exist or say that if

397
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,960
we're on the same page we'd both
be getting paid.

398
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,120
So does it become a problem when
someone says or normalises doing

399
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,880
loads of extra work and
responsibility for free when it

400
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,920
has that knock on effect on
other people in the school?

401
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,520
SLT take advantage of it and if
that, if 24 year old me was

402
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,240
walking around saying I'll do
it, I'll do it for free,

403
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:20,960
actually don't give it to him.
No, no, stop advertising.

404
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,640
I'll do it for free.
That's just rude and

405
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,080
inappropriate And yeah, that was
an issue.

406
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:25,560
I wasn't doing that.
Obviously I didn't.

407
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,520
I kept this myself because I'd
be silly, but I think when SLT

408
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,080
take advantage of it and maybe
approach the younger 24 year old

409
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,520
me going, would you do this?
And I, and I'm just sort of

410
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:34,760
inexperiencing.
Oh, they're pressuring me.

411
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,360
This is a promotion.
I should be grateful.

412
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:37,680
I should be grateful.
Yeah, sure.

413
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,880
And then they don't mention
money and I slip into doing it

414
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,800
for free.
That's on SLT at SLT at that

415
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:42,480
point.
That's not on me.

416
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,840
I don't think.
I think SL, I think a good SLT

417
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,680
just won't do that.
They'll be like, no, it's a paid

418
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:48,800
role.
This is a paid role.

419
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,560
Whether I give it to the the 24
year old or the 33 year old with

420
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,440
experience is just down to my
professional decision of filling

421
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,000
this role appropriately.
Yeah, yeah.

422
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,560
And I still might pick the 24
year old.

423
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,720
Yeah, for lots of reasons that
aren't just, it's not just going

424
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,720
to come down to experience, but
you've taken out that kind of

425
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,280
situational, most of, well,
one's going to cost me free

426
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,560
ground and one's going to cost
me nothing.

427
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,800
Yeah, OK.
Obviously the it's just part of

428
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,840
the job exists.
The other part of this is

429
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:12,880
something I'm really interested
in.

430
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,000
I want to have a chat with you
about this one and it came up

431
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,920
from me reading this question.
I climb the pay scale.

432
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,040
It's when you go into UPS, the
upper pay scale.

433
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,240
So if anyone who's not sure,
maybe they're early run in their

434
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,640
career, every teacher starts off
on what's called the main pay

435
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,960
scale.
There are 6 points on the main

436
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,920
pay scale.
I believe you go M1 to M6.

437
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,000
Academies can do it differently.
We talked about that before.

438
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,680
Let's not go into that again.
But you move up that pay scale

439
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,760
throughout your career.
One year tends to be 1 jump.

440
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,240
That's how it works up, up, up.
You get to M6 after six years of

441
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,600
teaching and you're what's
called maxed out.

442
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,960
You're capped out, but there is
an upper pay scale, an upper pay

443
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,600
range called both, and that's
called UPS or UPR, whatever your

444
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,360
school calls it, and that comes
with you have to apply to go

445
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,400
through.
So, Hayden, is it worth a

446
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,440
teacher at the top of the main
pay scale applying to go through

447
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,200
to the upper threshold?
Yes because it shouldn't come

448
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,560
with a crazy amount of addition.
In fact it shouldn't even come

449
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,400
with additional workload.
It's been debunked so many

450
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,040
times.
People online and people that

451
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,720
talk to us think, oh, if I go
for UPS though, they're going to

452
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,680
take away my TLR and then I have
to do mass lead for free.

453
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:21,839
And it's like, no, no, that's,
that's not how it works.

454
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:23,760
They are literally breaking the
rules.

455
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,319
You can challenge your school on
it if you want to, but the upper

456
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:29,320
pay scale is literally just just
think of it as as an extension.

457
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,480
It's just a way to give teachers
more pay to keep them in the

458
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,560
job, to retain them.
You know what you've been

459
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,320
teaching for seven years now,
here's the next pay scale.

460
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:38,720
We really, you know, you've done
really well.

461
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,840
Here it is.
If that's the case, why isn't

462
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,520
there just nine points on the
main pay scale?

463
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,800
It is different.
What?

464
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,440
In all honesty I I think it
should just go all the way

465
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:47,640
through.
I think the upper pay scale

466
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,480
system is a bit of a joke to be
honest with you.

467
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,520
Unions we're pushing for it to
be a bit more normalised, but

468
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,920
really the whole point is when
you get to the top of the main

469
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,120
pay scale, which you're supposed
to just progress through anyway.

470
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:58,640
At that point you're supposed to
show evidence.

471
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,760
You're supposed to be like right
here's evidence school that I

472
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,920
have I have contributed to the
whole school like in in a in a

473
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,240
certain way, you.
Know by doing a disco.

474
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,400
I've done 57 discos now, but the
policies, you need 58 those.

475
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,240
But then the school can go like,
OK, yeah, great.

476
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:15,480
I don't.
I think it's a bit of a gimmick,

477
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,360
but yeah, you're supposed to
apply to show that you are

478
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:19,000
making a significant impact to
the whole school.

479
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,000
And that can literally just be
because you're a really good

480
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,880
teacher and in staff meetings
you have good wisdom and you

481
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,200
share your ideas like it
doesn't.

482
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,720
It shouldn't have to be.
Replacing a TLR.

483
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,160
Yeah, replacing a TLR or what a
lot of schools do, which is just

484
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,840
making up reasons that you can't
go to UPS for this reason or, or

485
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,840
you have to have done XY and Z
to go to UPS.

486
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,760
They're making it up.
It's not real.

487
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,440
So that's why I don't like the
system.

488
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,600
I think it should just be a
progression.

489
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,680
So just to dive in a bit then,
because people won't be

490
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,600
listening to this and, and
people really do listen to what

491
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,520
we say and be like, OK, but
you're saying it should be like

492
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:49,880
that.
It doesn't mean it is, though.

493
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,360
No, it's not like schools do
have the power.

494
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:52,320
If someone's listening to this
guy.

495
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,640
And yeah, it doesn't matter
because your school can still

496
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,560
say, no, you need to give me
evidence for this, document

497
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,400
that.
And what a lot of schools do,

498
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,200
unfortunately, is they make it
really tricky to apply to do it

499
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,200
because they'll say, well, we
need this pro forma filled out.

500
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,080
And it's like 17 page document
you've got to do or, you know,

501
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,680
or, or to be honest with you,
what I see a lot of schools do

502
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,200
is because they can, because it
is separate like you're saying.

503
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,200
And in the dream world, it would
just be 9 points and you should

504
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,000
just work your way through
because it's separate.

505
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,480
A lot of schools just go, Nah,
yeah.

506
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,240
So now, not now.
Why Can I just ask why not now?

507
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,960
Not now?
Because let me just take this.

508
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,840
Have you have you taught Year 6
before?

509
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,640
Well, no, because.
Not taught year six kind of UPS

510
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,840
then.
Yeah, sorry, but I I've not

511
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,080
taught year 6 because you've not
put me in.

512
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,000
Yeah, I know.
It's good in there.

513
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,280
It works out quite well for us,
isn't it?

514
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:36,760
Yeah.
We choose where you go.

515
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,280
You haven't gone there.
No UPS for you.

516
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:39,960
Literally.
It's ridiculous.

517
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:40,600
Yeah.
Insane.

518
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,120
So those little things get in
writing when they reject it.

519
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:45,040
Yeah.
Why?

520
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,640
Because sometimes schools are
genuinely clutching at straws

521
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,200
giving nonsense reasons why
someone shouldn't be going to

522
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,480
the upper threshold.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

523
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,520
And go to your union if you've
got a problem with.

524
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,720
It I'm actually really sorry
here, Dylan, because at our

525
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,440
school the policy is you have to
have done 18 discos, you've only

526
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,080
done I think 16.
You have to have worked in year

527
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,320
6 and EYFS as well.
Oh yeah?

528
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:06,480
Well, I'm actually in the Junior
School.

529
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:07,920
Oh.
Well, yeah, so sorry.

530
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,080
So we can't do that then, can
we?

531
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,840
It's just like, yeah, at that
point I think you can probably

532
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,320
take this tribunal when they're
saying you have to have EYFS

533
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,600
experience and they're a Junior
School.

534
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,960
So if you if you were talking to
someone then like this, like

535
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,640
this person talk going through
the scale and they were last

536
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,120
year, they were M6 at the top of
the pay scale.

537
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:25,000
And they're thinking right now,
because a lot of windows

538
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,560
shutting like November, like you
can still apply now.

539
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,040
A lot of schools for this year,
yeah, to have UPS, I'd be saying

540
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,800
to every single person listening
to this, apply for it.

541
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,120
Don't, don't think to yourself.
Or they might reject it.

542
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,640
They might.
But you know what's going to

543
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,720
happen if you don't apply,
you're not going to get it.

544
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,240
If you apply you might get it
even if your school are being

545
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,920
toxic and pushing back and
making it as tricky as possible

546
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,520
still.
Apply for it.

547
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:46,920
I agree absolutely.
And I've just thought of another

548
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,640
classic one because I feel like
this happens all the time, which

549
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,440
is you apply for UPS and they
go, Oh no, you have to have been

550
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,200
on M6 for a minimum of three
years before you can apply to

551
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,280
UPS.
No, you don't.

552
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:57,760
Yeah, that's such a load of
rubbish.

553
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,160
They've made that up, if that if
that's a rule in your school and

554
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,680
they and then we follow it
because it might happen.

555
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:03,360
Yeah.
We can't say, OK, you're an

556
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:04,680
Academy.
You can literally make up these

557
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,560
rules.
Fine, that's really frustrating.

558
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,520
But just remember my point here
is just remember they've made

559
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,960
that rule up, though.
Yeah, They're all hands are

560
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:13,440
tied.
Hands are tied.

561
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,160
You've got to say, M6, for 15
years you can go to UPS.

562
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:18,960
Yeah, because you decided that
that's not them.

563
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,640
I'm sorry.
The powers that be What you you

564
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:23,760
can you change it all the power
that bees.

565
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,720
So can you change it for me,
please?

566
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,800
And I've said this like, oh, our
school don't follow the STP CD.

567
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,440
So sorry guys, that that list of
administrative tasks you do just

568
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,680
have to do that, but you chose
not to.

569
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,080
But every single thing comes
down to that school would have

570
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,200
chosen to reduce that autonomy
for you to take away your

571
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,760
working rights, to take away
your ability to do something

572
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,760
that's good for you.
They've chosen to take that

573
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,520
away.
And then they're hanging on that

574
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,840
as a crutch to say, well, I'm
sorry guys, but look what this

575
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,120
policy says, which I wrote, but
look what it says, which I

576
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:53,480
wrote.
I can't control it.

577
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:54,840
I wrote it.
I literally wrote this.

578
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,160
I can control it and I wrote it
and I can control it right now.

579
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,280
And I can control what I'm
saying to you.

580
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,400
Like at the end of the advert
when this will be really

581
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,200
quickly.
Guys, I'm just so sorry.

582
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:05,080
You've applied for UPS, you've
done the 57 page binder that

583
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,120
we've asked you to do, you've
taken pictures of everything,

584
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,400
and you've really, you've really
put a lot of effort in, but

585
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,080
we're going to have to actually
decline you this time.

586
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,920
We decided then the reason why
we're going to decline you and

587
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,280
then we could change that at any
point whatsoever.

588
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,160
We can actually give you this if
we want to, but we just don't

589
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,280
want to.
So we're going to hide behind

590
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,120
with some recidity rules that we
made.

591
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,160
Up honestly policy, yeah,
absolutely mental, absolutely

592
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,680
mental.
So yeah, apply to UPS.

593
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,160
Don't be afraid of going
through, just push it.

594
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,840
And if they push back, honestly
just check them, yeah.

595
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely right.

596
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,080
Check them, check them.
That's the thing, isn't it?

597
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:32,880
Check them, check them.
That's what we want to hear.

598
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:34,240
Right.
Let's go to another 1 then.

599
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,960
If you could rejig this current
curriculum, what would you do?

600
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,160
A lovely, nice, vague, open
question, but I want to get to

601
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,800
your, your passion, your your,
your one thing you would do.

602
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,880
So there's loads of things we've
talked about before, more this,

603
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,360
more that, OK, blah, blah.
But no, no, right now just think

604
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:53,800
what comes to your head
immediately.

605
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,000
What would you like that?
Oh.

606
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,880
My God, I would strip so much
grammar and punctuation,

607
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,760
Remember?
Yeah, Grammar, punctuation,

608
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,760
spelling, so much GPS would be
out of that curriculum and

609
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,480
shoved into secondary school.
And not even replaced.

610
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,720
You would not.
Absolutely not.

611
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,480
Well, the the whatever you get
back from it would be replaced

612
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,920
with more creative writing and
having fun at school.

613
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's my first one and I

614
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,320
think I could do that with a few
subjects.

615
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:18,360
I think you could do it with
maths as well.

616
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:19,800
Yeah, I think maths is a little
bit better.

617
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,640
I don't think.
I think there are actually are.

618
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,240
It's mostly great and there was
a few objectives you could

619
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,080
probably.
Roman numerals.

620
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,960
Roman numerals, like there's
probably some things where it's

621
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,760
like they can just wait a bit.
They can learn that they're

622
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,200
gonna do that from year 7 to 12
constantly, like.

623
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,480
Just Roman numerals, but yeah,
they're going to Roman school

624
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:36,880
Roman.
Numerals just goes, yeah, it's

625
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,080
just gone.
You know what?

626
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,080
I went, yeah, in year 10 at one
point in your brain, when you're

627
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,600
old enough, you can just pick it
up in 5 seconds.

628
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,800
Someone can say to you, oh by
the way, these are a couple of

629
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,560
the Roman numerals you need to
know for no reason for some

630
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,760
reason.
But but honestly, I honestly, I

631
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,040
would just get rid of it.
I wouldn't do that.

632
00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:50,960
Yeah.
I just feel like, do you know

633
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,000
what?
In, in because we teach Roman

634
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,800
numerals, don't we?
It's if to say, well, it comes

635
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,200
up in real life sometimes.
Cool.

636
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,280
Learn it then.
Yeah.

637
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,520
Learn it in those like three
situations where it comes up

638
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,120
you're watching the Super Bowl.
How can I watch the Super Bowl

639
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:03,760
if I don't know what DII is?
Yeah.

640
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,520
Yeah, yeah.
My favourite 1 is clocks.

641
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,360
When people say, well, you need
to know, you get a lot of Roman

642
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:09,240
numeral clocks.
I'm like as if you can't tell

643
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,800
the time without knowing what
the number is.

644
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,920
I could give most adults, I say
most, that's really bad.

645
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,280
And I should say all, I could
give all adults a clock that

646
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,320
just has dots on it and they
should be able to read the time.

647
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,320
I don't need to you know the
Roman numerals to know that.

648
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,160
And also just learn to, if
you're learning, learn to read

649
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,640
the clock with normal numbers.
And then if you come across a

650
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,800
Roman numeral clock, that's a
great way to learn it.

651
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,080
Yeah, that's true.
Oh, that's what the five is.

652
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:34,880
Yeah.
V means 5.

653
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:39,880
Oh, the three lines is 3.
I get it now makes.

654
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,800
I just didn't get.
It 3 lines three I never would

655
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,080
have known.
Get that one teacher is always

656
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,800
like, yeah, but as the child
goes to Rome and they see one of

657
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,760
those arches, those arches that
have it across the top, they

658
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,960
need to know, do they, if they
go, do you know what?

659
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,920
They can learn it in Rome.
I feel like that's always I

660
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,320
always see a picture of an an
arch.

661
00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,760
Yeah, I don't know what you're
talking about.

662
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,160
Right.
Like it's just like a stone arch

663
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,040
just got it engraved across
something across.

664
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,280
The top well, I for me, it'll be
watching old episodes of TV

665
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:07,520
shows.
How will I know when it's made?

666
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,680
If at the end there isn't like
there's that famous SAT question

667
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,440
with like like the the theatre
like like an old cinema and it

668
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,400
said just like MMVXI don't know
why VX isn't a thing.

669
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,560
Maybe we do need to have
exactly.

670
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,280
You need to learn Roman numerals
mate.

671
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,960
Michael Gove was right.
So you'd basically you'd you'd

672
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,840
strip back a lot of stuff.
I'd strip back a lot of stuff

673
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,360
and I'd and I would want to get
in the point what I think is of

674
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:34,760
primary school, which is
enjoyment.

675
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,920
I'd want to strip back as much
stuff as I can so that I can put

676
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,560
in lessons, units, whatever.
Isn't any subject, by the way,

677
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,600
not just the not just the the
core subjects, the foundation

678
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,320
subjects too, where the whole
point is can we foster a love

679
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,440
for this subject?
And that is like our primary

680
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,480
goal, the top of the hierarchy.
Then we've got these objectives

681
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,200
that we want to get done, then
this, then this and this, you

682
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,080
know, that's that, you know,
from a meta standpoint.

683
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,520
You still need to do everything.
You still need to do everything.

684
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,080
But of course, but your goal is
to do this so that that can

685
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:02,520
happen.
So at.

686
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:02,800
That.
Yeah.

687
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,720
Because at the moment it's like,
here's the goal, everyone needs

688
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,320
to do it so we can compete on
league tables.

689
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,440
Yeah, If you can make it fun,
that's cool.

690
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:09,840
Yeah, but a lot of people don't
do that.

691
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,040
It's fine, though, because
they're still teaching.

692
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,400
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Let's do the other bit first.

693
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,000
Let's make it enjoyable so kids
don't leave.

694
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,400
What about that kid who loves
learning about the past

695
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,600
progressive participle pronoun?
That kid that doesn't exist.

696
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,800
Yeah, Yeah, I like it.
Yeah, I like making up children.

697
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,560
Yeah.
That don't exist in any reality

698
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:26,800
ever.
No one likes learning that.

699
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,400
I'm sorry if your child, no,
your child doesn't because it

700
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,160
doesn't exist.
No one likes learning past

701
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,080
progressive.
Learning No.

702
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,800
One likes learning, cut it
there.

703
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:36,160
End of this profession so.
What about you then, Dylan?

704
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,360
What would you do to this
curriculum?

705
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,080
So you're taking stuff away.
So I'm going to like latch on

706
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,680
the fact there might be a bit of
a gap because adding just adding

707
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,200
stuff to the curriculum is my
bugbear.

708
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,360
I would never want anyone to do
this.

709
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:49,640
However, I would love to add
something to do every child

710
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,440
learning British Sign Language.
OK, what like in place of other

711
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,320
languages or?
Yeah, but I mean, potentially,

712
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,520
yeah, we could go in the same
category of like, well, if your

713
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,120
school happens to just it's
chosen Spanish and they learn

714
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:01,520
Spanish or it's chosen Mandarin
and they learn Mandarin, that's

715
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:02,640
that's good.
It's nice.

716
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:03,480
It's lovely.
Yeah.

717
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,000
But but realistically, if
they're only doing one language

718
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,080
anyway in primary school and
they're going to go to secondary

719
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,000
and learn more, I think that one
language should be sign

720
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,000
language.
I think imagine a world where

721
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,960
children are just have like
basic proficiency in it and they

722
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,680
can just have a little bit of a
dialogue with someone who uses

723
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,400
British Sign Language.
I think it would be more

724
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,960
inclusive.
I think it's simple enough that

725
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,240
a teacher can teach themselves
the basics as they're going

726
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,080
through and the children can
have just like a solid

727
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,760
understanding where, you know,
imagine being a child who is

728
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,560
deaf, learn sign language and
then spending their whole life

729
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,600
just trying to find other people
who can understand what they're

730
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,280
saying, usually other deaf
people or the odd person who's

731
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,120
learnt it.
Just imagine the wild where that

732
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,520
deaf child goes into class and
he says hi, good morning, how

733
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,120
are you?
And someone answers them and

734
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:48,560
it's all in sign language.
It's unbelievable.

735
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,920
I think it's lovely.
I I don't think there's really a

736
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,000
downside.
Do you know what I mean?

737
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,560
Like it's, it's just wholesome.
I like the idea of particularly

738
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,520
deaf children actually feeling
like, oh, yeah, people are

739
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,360
communicating with me rather
than you said, constantly

740
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,000
thinking, oh, no one, I can't
communicate properly with people

741
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,040
if they don't understand this
language that no one seems to be

742
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:04,760
learning.
Exactly.

743
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,520
But we don't have to say purple
in Spanish.

744
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,400
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

745
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,440
There's a bit of disconnect
there.

746
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,640
But I guess the pushback is kind
of what you said at the

747
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,600
beginning.
When though, when we gonna do

748
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,000
this?
You can't just latch onto me.

749
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,280
Get rid of this is my version.
I'm not in your version getting

750
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,600
rid of stuff from the
curriculum.

751
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,360
For you, Yeah, I think this is
the core thing between both of

752
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:25,680
us is we can't be afraid to get
rid of stuff from the

753
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,040
curriculum.
So when this new curriculum

754
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,680
review comes out, I think they
say it's gonna take a few years

755
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,160
for this to actually happen.
But yeah, we have to not be

756
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,240
scared to take stuff out.
And I've said this before, when

757
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,280
we are rejigging this
curriculum, it almost needs to

758
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,640
be from the ground up, starting
almost from zero.

759
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,560
Rather than thinking we've got
this block, This block has to

760
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:43,720
exist.
It's the most important thing in

761
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:44,440
the world.
Everything in it.

762
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,840
It's so important we can't
possibly touch it.

763
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,640
Let's cram some stuff in and do
that or slightly change it.

764
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,840
Start from the bottom up and
just think about what's actually

765
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,080
really important.
Because if I was to line up all

766
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,800
the things I want children to
learn in school, them having a

767
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,800
basic understanding of British
Sign Language would almost

768
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,880
certainly be in my first 10% of
things.

769
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,040
Like, yeah, we can build in time
for that.

770
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,800
Even if it's just like 1 unit
per year, Even if it's just that

771
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,960
like from year one, year 2, year
three-year 4, they learn a

772
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,480
little bit.
And then throughout the year,

773
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,120
the teacher can just do a little
bit of like whatever the sign

774
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,440
might be for like the different
letters and stuff and just build

775
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,160
it slowly.
Because I know there already

776
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,480
exists qualifications for sign
language.

777
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880
Could there be something we
build side by side and like by

778
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,920
the end of year 2 or year 6 or
whatever it might be in terms of

779
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,360
where the children are and what
they can do?

780
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,720
They've also gained this
qualification in British Sign

781
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,160
Language.
That'd be really nice.

782
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:32,880
Oh, dear.
I think it's.

783
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,640
I think it's a fantastic idea.
I love it.

784
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,600
I must say.
By the way, these questions are

785
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,080
really good.
Yeah, even, like, I know we've

786
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,520
got some funny ones and some
serious ones.

787
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,560
Like, I'm just really grateful
for these questions.

788
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,120
I just wish people could
continue rising in.

789
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,440
Do you know what I mean?
I thought I'd segue.

790
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,000
I thought I'd use it as a moment
just to plug the fact that you

791
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,360
can get in touch.
Yeah, whilst we're here, why

792
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,520
don't leave us a review, not
saying that way, wherever we

793
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:52,960
are, leave us a review on
whichever platform you are

794
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,120
listening on, which is five
stars.

795
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,720
But also you can follow us on
Instagram at Teach the peak

796
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,520
podcast.
You follow us on TikTok at at

797
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,480
Teach the podcast.
But don't let Hayden trick you

798
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:01,800
into thinking we're over because
we're not.

799
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,840
Let's keep going.
Next question on this deep

800
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,720
thoughtful what kind of path we
find ourselves on?

801
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,200
Yes, making something wholesome
for the next generation and

802
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,800
really thinking deeply about how
we can fix these issues.

803
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,960
If you were a school stationary
item, which one would you be?

804
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,680
I was thinking is, oh, we've
actually got another deep

805
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:20,800
question.
Of course we haven't.

806
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,080
Which not only which one would
you be and why?

807
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,480
I think I know I I'm a bit
worried that something came to

808
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,040
my mind so quickly.
Actually, I feel like I should

809
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,280
have had to think about this a
bit more.

810
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,200
I'll be a staple remover.
Why think about it?

811
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:33,920
I think everyone.
Oh wait, no, sorry.

812
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,400
I am thinking sorry.
I'm not actually sure though why

813
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,360
you want to be a staple remover
though mate, so could you just?

814
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:39,480
Tell me.
I don't think it's as simple as

815
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:40,640
just telling someone to think
about it.

816
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,240
Essential, always needed.
People are always asking.

817
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,560
I love.
How the first two were the same

818
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,480
thing.
Essential, always needed.

819
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,760
Vital needed, needed by people.
Important, they're important.

820
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,360
I just feel like they're like
they're not being used all the

821
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:55,760
time.
You've got a bit privacy, you

822
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,080
know, not being used all the
time, just essential parts of

823
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,160
the year and when, when they're
needed.

824
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:01,760
People are always coming around
asking.

825
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,600
No one's coming around saying,
oh, if you, I was about to say a

826
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:04,880
glue stick, everyone's saying
for a glue stick.

827
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,640
No one's coming around saying,
oh, have you got another pen?

828
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,080
We've got loads of pens.
We've got another pencil.

829
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,440
We've got loads of pencils.
Have you got a staple remover?

830
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,440
Oh, yeah, Let me just check my
important drawer of goodness.

831
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,400
That's the way you're going to
find a staple remover.

832
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,320
They are sacred.
If a staple remover get goes

833
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:17,360
missing in the school, what
happens?

834
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,280
Bam, school e-mail to everybody.
Someone's got my staple remover.

835
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,800
I really need it back.
It's precious to me.

836
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,160
That's me.
I mean, you're not wrong, but

837
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,520
you've got to remember you are
enabling something we hate.

838
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,360
You're enabling the use of
displays.

839
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,400
No, no, no, no, no.
You're you're thinking of this

840
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,880
wrong.
I'm enabling removing displays.

841
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,160
Very specifically, removing
displays.

842
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,680
It embodies everything I think
about.

843
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,560
OK, that's really interesting
because I thought to myself,

844
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,640
I'll be the stapler then as you
were saying this, I'll be the

845
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,040
statement, the person who puts
it up, who does all the hard

846
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,280
work, who builds things up, and
then you're just there to

847
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,880
destroy it, not take it down at
the end.

848
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,800
But actually I'm a stapler.
What am I doing?

849
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,800
I'm heading in the the English
display.

850
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,040
Yep.
Working wall.

851
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,640
Yep.
Max working wall.

852
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,000
Yeah.
Are we working wall?

853
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,120
Yeah, yeah.
Science.

854
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:58,920
Working wall.
Yeah.

855
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,360
So.
If you're not a stapler, what

856
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:02,600
would it be?
If that's, you know, not your

857
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,080
first choice anymore, what are
you gonna do?

858
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,120
I think what I would go for is
I'd go for the shatterproof

859
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,360
bendy ruler.
Very specific.

860
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:10,680
Yeah.
Yeah.

861
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,480
Because because, you know,
everyone needs a ruler.

862
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,120
The ruler doesn't have anyone
use.

863
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,040
You can make straight lines with
a ruler.

864
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,840
Yeah, you can measure.
He can measure how long

865
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,680
something is with a ruler.
And also the kids can give me a

866
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:22,760
bit of a bent.
I'm malleable.

867
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,440
I'm not just thinking one thing
all the time.

868
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:25,960
I'm not going to shadow under a
bit of pressure.

869
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,120
I can take it, bend it.
Yeah, brilliant.

870
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,920
You can coil up and even fit
inside a small pencil.

871
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:31,960
Case.
There you go.

872
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:32,960
Exactly.
Exactly.

873
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,720
I've never heard anything that
embodies you more than a

874
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,440
shatterproof bending ruler, so
another great question.

875
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,720
Thanks for that one.
Right, next question.

876
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:47,600
Any tips for moving to SLT in
your current school starting as

877
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,640
an assistant head this
September?

878
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,760
I can see why someone's asked
that question because I've

879
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,520
always thought to myself, I
think I'd find it awkward

880
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,320
working in the same school.
Why?

881
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,480
Because I felt like you have to
put a bit of a different hat on,

882
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:00,080
right?
There's different

883
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,040
responsibilities that you don't
necessarily need to think about

884
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,480
or worry about when you're but.
Why is that harder in a school

885
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,160
you've been in I?
Think because I know the people

886
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,720
that'd be managing so well as
friends and sometimes as

887
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,320
management, you do have to have
difficult conversations.

888
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,600
And I would not enjoy doing that
with the friends who I did not

889
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,080
have to have difficult
conversations before.

890
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,880
So I personally, I've always
thought, Oh yeah, I can see why

891
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,800
it's a thing.
What's it like having friends at

892
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,080
school?
Yeah, but to be fair, you

893
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,280
wouldn't know.
So it's very nice.

894
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,320
I, I, I don't know, this is so
personal.

895
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,160
I could just be like everyone
else could be thinking, no, it's

896
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,200
no, no, no, no.
But for me, I would probably

897
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,560
actively look, I'd be looking to
work at a different school, but

898
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,960
if I had to do it in the same
school, I'd probably just have

899
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,280
the one awkward conversation
with my mates at the start being

900
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,920
like, Oh yeah, I'm going to have
to do these things next year

901
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,640
guys.
So just just bear in mind, it's

902
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,120
just work, you know, don't worry
about it.

903
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,320
But I will be, I will have to do
these things and I will have to

904
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,120
fire you.
All right.

905
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,000
No, I think yeah, this person
asking for advice and tips and

906
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,160
stuff, I would say to them that
it's it's going to be tricky in

907
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:04,880
terms of unless you're going to
turn into the mouthpiece for

908
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,800
leadership above you.
And then what it can end up

909
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,880
being is this person in the
middle kind of role still seeing

910
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,239
your leadership, but like
assistant or they're having

911
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,320
these ideas etcetera.
This is slightly different, I

912
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,880
suppose with this assistant
headteachers quite high up, but

913
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,800
it can turn into then you're
you're the deliverer of the bad

914
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,560
news.
You're the person doing the

915
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,760
stuff which you wouldn't want to
be the one delivering and then

916
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,280
maybe not necessarily taking any
plaudits or pushing things that

917
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,920
you want to do.
So what I would say to this

918
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,320
person is just understand your
role really clearly about what

919
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,639
it is you're stepping into.
And then if you're already in

920
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:36,880
the school, my, my view is kind
of opposite to yours.

921
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,400
Actually, I think that it can be
a real positive to step up when

922
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,760
you're already in a school and
having worked there because you

923
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,560
know the insurance and outs of
how everything works.

924
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,239
So I've, I saw some advice once.
Obviously I'm a big football

925
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,719
fan.
It's kind of similar in terms of

926
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,960
when a new manager comes into a
football club.

927
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:53,840
Obviously they've been they've
been elsewhere.

928
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,440
Maybe they they they were a
coach and they moved up to the

929
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,440
manager position in in that in
that club.

930
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,600
And there's benefits that I
think, but when you go to a new

931
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,520
place, his advice was to anyone
going to a new place, being the

932
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,640
manager, let everything run
itself and just observe for like

933
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,680
two or three weeks.
Don't change anything

934
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:11,640
immediately.
Just go in.

935
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,600
And you have to know how it
works first because you can come

936
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,720
in all guns blazing if it's
somewhere different, saying

937
00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:18,200
this, this, this, this, and it
just wouldn't work there for

938
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,280
whatever reason.
So their advice was just just

939
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,760
step back and and watch it for
three weeks.

940
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,560
And my point is, if you're
stepping up into a role in a

941
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,200
school you've already been at,
you know those functions, you

942
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,480
have been a teacher in that
system.

943
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,520
So you understand when you step
up, you're going to have that in

944
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:33,840
the front of your head.
You'll be like, oh, well, if if

945
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,880
I was still teaching actually,
and I come in and I change this,

946
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,760
that would really benefit me.
So I'd do that in my job or

947
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,320
that'd be really be detrimental.
And actually it would take away

948
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,200
my autonomy and I'd really
resent that.

949
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,840
So I won't do that as a leader.
And I think that's where it can

950
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,560
be a real positive.
I think that, yeah, there's

951
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,960
clearly some pros.
I think for me it would just be

952
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,320
a case of that you can get over
that awkward stuff.

953
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,560
The stuff I talked about really
is just stuff you can go over.

954
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:56,960
Do you know what I mean?
And then there's just one more

955
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,720
risk of things.
I've seen Percy in my career

956
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:03,160
lots and heard lots about is
there's usually clicks in

957
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,320
schools, right?
You're never actually get a

958
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:05,560
school where everyone just
perfect level.

959
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,920
We're all exactly equal friends.
Yeah, of course groups just

960
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,120
emerge.
They just do.

961
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,720
And then when one person from
that group ends up being the

962
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:14,160
person that goes up and gets
that assistant head role, it is

963
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,640
quite common that they then
there's just like favourable

964
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:19,840
conversations.
They're, you know, favourable

965
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,080
positions come all suddenly that
mates get in this or that mate

966
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,880
gets away of it, but the other
person doesn't get away of it so

967
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,000
easily.
I think just trying to leave

968
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,920
behind bias is something that
everyone should actively do when

969
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,920
being a leader in general,
particularly if it's in your own

970
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,640
school, because you will maybe
even subconsciously have a bit

971
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:34,840
of a bias.
It's like, you know, oh, it's my

972
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,640
good friend, he's asked me for
this three Times Now.

973
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,080
I don't want to, I don't want to
be annoyed.

974
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,160
He's my mate.
So I'll just say yes.

975
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,920
Whereas if someone else does it,
you would immediately go to the

976
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,360
policy and say no, yeah, you've
just got to be fair and yeah,

977
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,840
not let your bias.
I think that's the best bit of

978
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,000
advice.
Firm but fair.

979
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:48,520
And I think be transfer
apparent.

980
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,840
Like it's so easy to say about
whenever I've been in a position

981
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,800
where like I'm maybe I'm
managing someone or I'm coming

982
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,920
up with ideas or having changes,
etc.

983
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,560
I always think it's best to be
as transparent as possible.

984
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,560
And some people don't like that
because it can mean people raise

985
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,000
things or push against you or
say why it's wrong, etc.

986
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,920
You just want to get stuff done.
I'm the boss, I just want to do

987
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,360
this.
Usually if you're in the right

988
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,720
environment with the right
people, then pushing back on

989
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:13,520
stuff is usually a good
conversation to have.

990
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:16,520
And it might be uncomfortable
for you, sure, but like, it's

991
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,160
usually a good thing as a whole
because then you can discuss and

992
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,280
talk about it.
Because there's usually 22

993
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,400
outcomes really is either
they're actually right and you

994
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,160
hadn't thought of something and
then you should be grateful that

995
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,360
they've thought of something you
didn't think of and get over the

996
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:28,760
embarrassment of oh, I got it
right.

997
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,800
I didn't think of that.
Or that you just have to explain

998
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,440
something that they've not
thought about and you were

999
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,000
thinking you don't have to go
no, I'm the boss.

1000
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,000
I don't have to explain it to
you.

1001
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,480
Yeah, you can, though you can't.
You can't just explain the exact

1002
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,880
reasoning to them as well,
because they're.

1003
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,920
Not children, they're not, you
know, it's not, it's not in the

1004
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,440
same way of like my, my rule
goes because I've, I've got the

1005
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,240
expertise and knowledge and I
know this already.

1006
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:48,120
And you just need to, you just
need to accept this because you

1007
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,000
don't know it.
It's a team of professionals.

1008
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:50,760
Yeah.
Just explain it.

1009
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,520
Absolutely.
This last question is linked to

1010
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,960
this, so we'll finish it off
here, but I thought this was

1011
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,920
really interesting.
Do you think a secondary school

1012
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,440
teacher could transition to be
in primary school leadership?

1013
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,840
That's a really good one, I can
see why it's linked.

1014
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,120
Firstly I will just say you know
that football analogy you gave?

1015
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,440
As an avid anti football fan, I
have fun enough.

1016
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,320
Heard that exact same advice
literally in the school setting

1017
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,520
of a leader coming from another
school.

1018
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,320
So it didn't really apply to the
last one, so I didn't say it,

1019
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,840
but it does for this one.
That's my first bit of advice,

1020
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,120
by the way.
Even if it is secondary, I know

1021
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,800
we're going to talk about the
whole point of it.

1022
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,120
Being so secondary teacher going
to lead in a primary.

1023
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:25,640
School, yeah.
So firstly, just come in,

1024
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:26,840
observe everything, see how it
goes.

1025
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,360
Secondly, I do think there is a
bit of a barrier there.

1026
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,800
I reckon that the average
primary school teacher would be

1027
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,440
a bit like, oh, here we go.
Oh, I see.

1028
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,320
I reckon they would be a bit
more like.

1029
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,160
I think that's fair.
I do, I think it, no, I don't

1030
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,720
think, I don't think it's fair
actually at all.

1031
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:43,440
I think that I think.
That's too harsh, but the

1032
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:44,840
question is could.
Do you think they could?

1033
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,040
So your answer.
Is yes, they could.

1034
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,960
Yeah, obviously I think they
could, but I think you'd be

1035
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,720
faced with more criticisms
because the people come and be

1036
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:51,640
like, Oh yeah, secondary school,
you have no idea how primary

1037
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,000
works, mate.
You go, yeah, you're going to

1038
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,920
come and change things.
Are you think of trying to make

1039
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,480
it into secondary?
Isn't he trying to make in

1040
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:57,880
secondary?
He has no idea how primary runs

1041
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,120
are.
I can imagine people doing that,

1042
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,960
maybe not even trying to be
mean, but it just might be that

1043
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,840
natural thinking.
Oh, you've not been in primary

1044
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:03,880
schools?
Why would you know how to do it

1045
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,360
better than me?
It's almost like a personal

1046
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,880
thing, isn't it?
Someone's coming in to lead me

1047
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,240
and they've not even been in my
work environment that I've been

1048
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:12,040
in for 10 years.
I think I could do that better.

1049
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,280
So do you think like what what
respects would it be able to be

1050
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,520
happening and what what overlaps
are there enough of that you

1051
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:19,920
think, Oh yeah, this could
happen then I mean.

1052
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,320
At the end of the day, it's
teaching, isn't it?

1053
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:22,400
No, but they're becoming
leaders.

1054
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:23,880
This is the point.
They're becoming leaders in a

1055
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,280
primary school.
They're not just they're a

1056
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,080
secondary school teacher wanting
to move up into leadership, but

1057
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,360
they do it in a primary school.
For me, I just think a lot of

1058
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,440
the systems are the same, even
between secondary school and

1059
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,040
primary schools.
At the end of the day, you're

1060
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,720
working with children.
There's going to be safeguarding

1061
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:38,200
to be a huge part of your role
when it comes to curriculum.

1062
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,080
OK, I get it.
Like curriculum is a bit

1063
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,520
different than secondary because
people will just focus on one

1064
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,960
subject and you have a very
specific curriculum leader.

1065
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,000
But you do also have a
curriculum leader in primary

1066
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,040
school.
It just might not be as serious

1067
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,520
because they're probably not
even getting paid for it.

1068
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,520
There's lots of crossovers.
I don't think it'd, it'd be a

1069
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,640
lot easier to go from secondary
down to primary, from a teacher

1070
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,680
to a leadership role.
Then it would be from out of

1071
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,640
education to just jump into a
leadership role.

1072
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,680
Yeah, I think that's a there's a
huge difference.

1073
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,920
But I feel like the problem is
people would treat them

1074
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,640
relatively the same.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1075
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,280
And I think that's where it's a
bit, I think people, you know

1076
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,680
what the, when I was taking the
makeup, people being like, Oh

1077
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,240
yeah, coming in, there's no idea
about primary.

1078
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,080
School I.
See, I think people would do

1079
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,200
that as much for someone
completely out of education

1080
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,840
coming in as they would for a
secondary school teacher coming

1081
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,560
in.
It's like they're not really

1082
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:20,240
equal, are they?
No.

1083
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,080
No.
And you've qualified as a

1084
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:23,120
teacher.
And if you have qualified

1085
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,240
teacher status, you can just be
a teacher at any point as well.

1086
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,040
And you just learn stuff like
they won't know the curriculum.

1087
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,040
They will soon.
Yeah, they don't know.

1088
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,120
They understand what it's like
working in Year 3.

1089
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,600
So does some senior leaders now
in school, like in primary

1090
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,160
school that like we just talked
about earlier, oh, you never

1091
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,680
taught year six.
You can't possibly be UPS.

1092
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,120
Of course you can.
Of course you can.

1093
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,360
So there are things that are
going to be gaps in people.

1094
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,960
They can still be good leaders.
And I do think this is the point

1095
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,000
I was really trying to push you
on.

1096
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,960
But that's the point I was
trying to make here was we're

1097
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,440
talking about going into
leadership.

1098
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,120
Yeah.
Like the traits of being a good

1099
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,920
leader are much more
transferable than oh, I teach

1100
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,000
history to to six formers.
I'm going to come and teach

1101
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,760
prime primary curriculum, the
whole curriculum to year 4.

1102
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,720
That's a huge difference and a
huge jump.

1103
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,240
But if you're going into
leadership role, like managing

1104
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,440
data, understanding trends,
understanding funding,

1105
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,320
understanding pedagogical ideas
as general working with

1106
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:13,840
curriculum, managing people as
well.

1107
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,600
Exactly.
That is a way closer and way

1108
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,840
more of an easy jump to me
becoming a leader than it would

1109
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,800
be if they were just going, oh,
I'm just going to go and teach

1110
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:22,720
year 2.
That would be.

1111
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:24,520
So different.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

1112
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,280
So it's doable.
I absolutely think it's doable.

1113
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:27,800
Yeah.
Give it a go.

1114
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,240
Let us know.
If you're doing that, what do

1115
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:34,040
you think the perfect in the
primary school senior leadership

1116
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,680
candidate would have behind
them?

1117
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,560
Is there something you think
yes, they need this or or are

1118
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,960
there just things that are
desirable and you can be

1119
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:45,320
without?
Oh.

1120
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,840
There's so many that you make my
brain go here, but the first

1121
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,080
time that comes to the mind is
classroom experience.

1122
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,800
So is this the issue with the
secondary school?

1123
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:56,800
Person no, because they've got
classroom experience, presumably

1124
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,320
if they're a classroom teacher
in secondary school.

1125
00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,520
I think that that is
transferable.

1126
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,040
By the way, I know you, I know
you just separated like elite,

1127
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,000
like managing skills out.
But for me, the first one that

1128
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,720
still comes to my mind though,
for a leader in a school is do

1129
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:09,000
you know how the classroom runs?
Like do you know what I mean?

1130
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,640
And for for me, having some some
element of classroom experience,

1131
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,320
just knowing what it feels like
to be a teacher, I think is a

1132
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,200
sense.
Do you think there is there

1133
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,120
there's there's not a city
leader who doesn't have that

1134
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,800
Like, is there?
Is there something that you

1135
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,360
know, like you can literally
look at the, the profession and

1136
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,240
be like, Nah, they need this.
OK.

1137
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,120
Other than that because I was
thinking like separating out

1138
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,000
people outside of school.
No, no, because I because I

1139
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,520
don't think that's a thing.
I think we've kind of made that

1140
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,840
up in this conversation.
How often does someone from

1141
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,240
outside of education, it doesn't
happen that every single senior

1142
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:37,800
leadership at some point has
taught and the discussion can be

1143
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,400
haven't taught in X amount of
years.

1144
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,440
But like I think you would
struggle to find someone who

1145
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,040
doesn't have that.
That's fair enough in terms of

1146
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,960
straight up management skills
and honestly it's just the

1147
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,440
people skills for me.
They have to be good at talking

1148
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,240
to their staff.
I have seen, I have come across

1149
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:56,040
leaders who who have the worst
skills at like they just think

1150
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:01,360
they're above and they have no
ability to be compassionate or

1151
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,840
empathise with their staff and
it just creates the most

1152
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,960
horrible divide.
The best leaders I've ever

1153
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,240
worked with are the ones who
just know how to talk to you

1154
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:10,640
like a human being.
Like that skill, whatever that

1155
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,800
skill is that one.
Let's just call it that.

1156
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,160
Yeah, I agree that that has to
come above anything.

1157
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,200
And this this stuff you can
learn is my point.

1158
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,320
Like someone someone who might
push back on this guy saying

1159
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,120
when you've been in secondary,
how can you possibly they can

1160
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,240
you can learn the primary, you
can step through that.

1161
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,120
OK, of course you can do that
job.

1162
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:30,240
But like the core aspects of
being a manager, talking to

1163
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:33,160
people, knowing their rights and
letting them have their

1164
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,200
priorities, not thinking that
their life is work just because

1165
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,760
your life might be working.
All of those attributes go to

1166
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,840
being a good leader.
I think are transferable, I

1167
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,080
think are important and I think,
yeah, why can't you go from

1168
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,560
leading a secondary school,
working in a secondary school to

1169
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,920
leading a primary school Academy
trust exists.

1170
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,280
CEO's are literally CEO's
leaders of loads of schools.

1171
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,560
They might just be an Infant
School, they might be just a 6th

1172
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:56,720
class, they might be a secondary
school.

1173
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,440
They're still, they can still
lead.

1174
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,040
It's just a very different role,
I think.

1175
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,000
And I think it's doable.
I think it's a hard job.

1176
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,760
We talk a lot about leaders and
how the problematic and systems

1177
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,040
that are built might be wrong
literally earlier about UPS,

1178
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,960
etcetera.
But yeah, I think, I think it's

1179
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:11,800
doable.
And I think whether you're

1180
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,600
stepping up to a leadership role
in your school, you're currently

1181
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,520
in or you're moving school, if
you're starting this September

1182
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,480
and you're in that leadership
role, my number one advice to

1183
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,760
you would be just those bonds
with your staff and that

1184
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,080
respect.
Because if you have those bonds

1185
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,840
and that respect, it's so much
easier to have those trickier

1186
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,960
conversations because you're
just a human being.

1187
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,160
Then instead of just a plant
saying do this because because

1188
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,680
the school needs you to do this,
Put the logo on the slide.

1189
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,560
No one will respect you know
will want to do it.

1190
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So much easier just to make a

1191
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,040
change in general, isn't it,
When people are on actually on

1192
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,400
your side instead of finding it.
Love it.

1193
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,360
Let's wrap that up.
Lovely little episode there, a

1194
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,240
mixture of questions.
And like I said earlier, go to

1195
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,080
our Instagram at Sleep podcast,
go to our Tick Tock Teach Sleep

1196
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,120
repeat podcast because we're
asking for your questions all

1197
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,760
the time.
Anything to sign off?

1198
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,400
No, but I will be getting a
Doberman soon to test a

1199
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,360
particular thing that came up in
this podcast episode.

1200
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:03,160
See you next time.