Ep 151: Teacher Guilt, Making Whole School Changes & What To Look Out For When Touring Schools

1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,360
Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teach, Sneak,

2
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:03,760
Repeat.
My name is Dylan Price.

3
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,160
My name is you, right?
Oh, you've, oh, you said your

4
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,240
surname.
I'm trying to build a personal

5
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,320
brand.
Dylan Price.

6
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,560
My name is Dylan Price and my
name is Hayden.

7
00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,840
Still my surname is not still.
I'm just still Hayden.

8
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,960
That's a long name.
It's Hayden still.

9
00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:23,440
My son is, I'm still.
It's just Hayden.

10
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,760
So for sure, Mr S.
And we're back with another

11
00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,440
podcast episode, Are You Still
Mr Still?

12
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,160
Yeah, Mr S Mr Still Stevens.
I'm still Steve.

13
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,640
Anyway, welcome back to another
question and answer episode.

14
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,720
You, the listeners have been
submitting your questions.

15
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,800
Mr Still, where can they still
get the link from to join our

16
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,880
WhatsApp community to be able to
give us questions to answer

17
00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,200
still?
I feel like you answered your

18
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,000
own question there within the
question itself.

19
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,280
Classic Dylan Price move right
there, Dylan.

20
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,760
Price, thank you.
Build that personal brand.

21
00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:56,560
If you go to the WhatsApp
community Dylan that just

22
00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,760
mentioned in the question and
join it and use the link that

23
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:00,680
Dylan just mentioned in the
question down below, you can

24
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,720
actually submit your questions
that we will potentially answer

25
00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,280
as well.
Maybe Dylan likes them.

26
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:06,640
Or not I'll.
Tell you what, I'll tell you one

27
00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,400
of the reasons why I sometimes
think to ourselves, maybe we

28
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,000
just need to get our names out
there a bit more.

29
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,320
We went to the 2 Mr Show a
couple of weeks ago and it was

30
00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:17,240
really, really funny.
It was really, really good.

31
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,480
Well worth going to see if you
it's coming to a town near you

32
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,440
in the future.
But the amount of people who

33
00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,840
walked past us and pointed at me
and went teach, state, repeat,

34
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,800
that's not my given name.
Yeah, and you got really angry.

35
00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,080
When you started?
Shouting him you did, it was

36
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,520
really embarrassing.
He was like, that's not my name,

37
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,520
All right, Dylan, they're just
fans, completely fabricated

38
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,760
fans.
I agree.

39
00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,240
Quite often people just like,
which one of you?

40
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,960
Again, you're and we know you're
those guys, but we just don't

41
00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:46,400
know who's who.
I don't mind actually.

42
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,360
We will chat with TC Appeals,
like yeah, shouted through the

43
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,440
rooftops, but it's really good.
And if you were there, it was so

44
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,240
nice to meet you.
Thank you for chatting.

45
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,200
It was really lovely.
Anyway, we have gone through all

46
00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,240
of the submissions.
We've got so many.

47
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,320
Here's the first question.
Hi guys, love the podcast.

48
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,440
You have really assisted me in
managing the work life battle

49
00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,880
all teachers have so thank you
for that.

50
00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,440
My question is how would you
approach senior leadership

51
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,880
around staff morale and
expectations?

52
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,240
Our team are working really well
with their new classes since

53
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,680
September and there is a lot to
celebrate.

54
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,240
However, we seem to be bombarded
with more.

55
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,600
Work due to this it's a really
tricky 1, isn't it?

56
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,120
I've I've we've said a lot on
this podcast that if you just

57
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,440
treat your staff right, they all
want to do things for you

58
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,440
anyway.
It's all like nice, but that's

59
00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,720
not necessarily how reality
works because I can think of

60
00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,680
some schools right now where
they're nice places to work, but

61
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,720
still you can't then just expect
your staff to just do extra like

62
00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,920
people will still then get their
back up even though, you know I

63
00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:48,040
can imagine some head teachers
will be like, oh, but I've done

64
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,520
these nice things for you.
I'm around was really high

65
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:51,920
before and everything's going
really well.

66
00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:53,880
So now surely you want to do
these extra things.

67
00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,000
And the problem I find is the
bar is the bar.

68
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,000
Like you can't, there is just no
situation where you can actually

69
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,800
just expect your staff to go
above and beyond the contract.

70
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,640
And what, they're all every
staff members already doing

71
00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:10,080
stuff outside of school.
So even when you're the nicest

72
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,240
school in the world, as soon as
you have any hint of expectation

73
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,840
of like, Oh yeah, this is so
lovely to work it.

74
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,600
Remember that time when I took
you all out with that staff

75
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,400
thing?
We had this great time, didn't

76
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:19,520
we?
And everyone gets this thing or

77
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:20,840
this globally loop policy.
Yeah.

78
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,080
Need you all to run a club on
the weekend.

79
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,480
And people are still going to be
like, no, yeah, know that.

80
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,000
And and you're within your right
to do that.

81
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,520
And the problem is, I imagine
this person is feeling awkward

82
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,960
about it because they're
thinking, well, you know, things

83
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:35,520
are going, things are going
well.

84
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,160
But does that do I, can they
take advantage of me now?

85
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,080
Like is that OK to do?
Yeah, yeah.

86
00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,360
It's like you've hit the noun on
the head.

87
00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,960
Like it seems from this question
that because things are going

88
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,360
well and swimmingly, leadership
can look at that sometimes be

89
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,920
like, oh, sick, so let's do all
this.

90
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,400
Absolutely right.
You can be like, well, let's do

91
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,200
XYZ as well then.
And we're going to bombard them

92
00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:58,760
with more because they can
clearly take it.

93
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,320
It's like a classic example of
often who is seen as the

94
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,880
strongest teacher might be given
the toughest class.

95
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,280
You're thinking what reward?
What reward for me potentially

96
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,920
being one of the stronger
teachers in the school?

97
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,120
Oh yeah, we'll give it to that
person because she's really good

98
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,880
with behaviour management.
So we'll give her the hardest

99
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,560
class.
Well, you have just kind of

100
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,839
signed me off for the year with
a really, really tricky class

101
00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,320
that's going to give me, you
know, these feelings of

102
00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,840
overwhelm and and tie me out
massively because I have to go

103
00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:25,720
up and beyond to do stuff.
I think you hit the noun on the

104
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,480
head.
I always treat it with a bit of

105
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,320
trepidation because I think it
is different.

106
00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,760
I think it's very different to
these very strict schools you

107
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,120
get sometimes, which are, you
know, whipping their teachers

108
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,720
into line.
You, you have to do all of this

109
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,760
all of the time.
We all know that's bad.

110
00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,240
We've called out a million
times.

111
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,280
So we have to have more nuance
here in terms of it's obviously

112
00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:47,760
good when you're in a school
that treats their staff really

113
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,920
well.
But I, yeah, I, I get like, I

114
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,080
don't know what the saying is,
like squeaky bum, almost like

115
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,920
when it's kind of laughed about
and gone, ha, ha.

116
00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:02,240
So please do all this though,
you know, being applauded for

117
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,040
having the correct line in your
staff's work life balance and

118
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,160
the morale being great, being
applauded for that is fantastic.

119
00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,360
You should say well done because
it's so easy to go past that.

120
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:13,520
But like you said, that's the
line.

121
00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,960
It it doesn't mean then you can
go past it again.

122
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,640
It should mean cool.
That's where we're working at.

123
00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,120
The biggest example always for
me is, is like stuff at the

124
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,320
weekend, it doesn't matter.
Like, you know, at the start of

125
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,760
my career I went to so many
cross countries, I went to so

126
00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,320
many football tournaments.
I wanted to do it.

127
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,760
I knew it was extra.
They asked me, I said yes.

128
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,920
But then it got to a point in my
life where I thought, OK, the

129
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,360
answer is now no.
And it could be no for a number

130
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,720
of reasons.
It was no for me before I had

131
00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,160
children because I had a
tutoring company.

132
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:46,840
You had me to look.
After I had you to look after, I

133
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:48,280
need to make sure you're OK at
the weekend.

134
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,280
But you know, and even it could
be no, because in my own head, I

135
00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:53,640
don't want to.
It doesn't matter what the

136
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,720
because is.
But the answer became no, so I

137
00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,400
stopped doing it.
OK, that's also fine.

138
00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:01,960
So as soon as you start looking
at going well, the kids are

139
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:03,440
missing out.
They keep me.

140
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,320
We're not going to be able to
run this thing on a Saturday

141
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:06,880
anymore.
No, we're not.

142
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,160
OK.
Is it that important?

143
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:10,600
Is it that important to you?
Yeah, it's great.

144
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,760
Of course it's important to me.
I want the kids.

145
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,000
Me personally, I'm talking about
now.

146
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,840
I really want the kids to get as
much as they can.

147
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,160
Of course I do.
I want every kid to have a

148
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,480
lovely, hearty meal in the
evening.

149
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,240
I'm not going to go around to be
the personal chef.

150
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,200
You know what I mean?
Like there is.

151
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:24,600
There is just a point where you
just go.

152
00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,240
Something can be nice, but I can
say no to it and it doesn't mean

153
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,320
that I'm a bad person and it
certainly doesn't mean I'm not

154
00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,360
fulfilling the role of my job.
There is no point on the pay

155
00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,160
scale, whether it's in the main
pay scale, the upper pay scale,

156
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,480
TLR, whatever it is.
There is no point in any of that

157
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,920
where you look at your contract
which should justify you having

158
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,760
to do something at the weekend.
Your UPS 3 doesn't matter, your

159
00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,920
UPS 3 is.
I'd expect you to be coming to

160
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,800
the old cross country and
running the odd club at the

161
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:50,680
weekend.
Yeah, OK.

162
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,040
That's fantastic and you might
have come to an agreement with

163
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,880
someone where they agree to do
that, but UPS 3 or whatever it

164
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,240
might be, there's no pay range
that says you should be giving

165
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,960
up your time outside of working
days.

166
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,760
It has to be a choice.
You might not like that.

167
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:08,960
You might think that's really
frustrating.

168
00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:11,600
Every single person in the room
might think it's objectively

169
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,480
better for children to be able
to do a football tournament at

170
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,000
the weekend.
It doesn't mean, though, that

171
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,560
you just say to someone, we got
to do that.

172
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,080
Yeah, No, it you have to hold
the line.

173
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,040
Staff morale is important, end
of question.

174
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,160
It doesn't mean you can then use
it against your staff to say or.

175
00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,160
Remember when we got rid of that
marketing policy?

176
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:32,480
Yeah, I do.
And it was great.

177
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,680
And it brought it down to where
it should be.

178
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,920
You can't then say so therefore
bump up at the week.

179
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,520
No, no, no, no.
Yeah, it reveals that your line

180
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,720
was always way higher than the
actual where it should be

181
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,440
anywhere, doesn't it?
I've, I've brought, I've

182
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,280
brought.
You're only doing 3 hours of

183
00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:45,800
extra work a week now instead of
10.

184
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,840
So those seven hours ones that
I've saved, I've now I've put

185
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,200
towards this.
It's like, no, no, sorry.

186
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,760
The bar you were trying to get
back down to 0, right?

187
00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,200
You weren't there's there's no
increase.

188
00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:55,880
You should only be trying to
decrease it.

189
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,720
Yeah, it's a tough one and it is
particularly hard when you work

190
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,000
in a school that is generally
nice.

191
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,840
It's really hard to say no.
You don't want to let people

192
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,160
down and it's personal at the
end of the day, like you know

193
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,760
these people, you work with
these people, probably you

194
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,040
probably know the head teacher
really well.

195
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,280
If you work at this school for a
long time.

196
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,360
You don't actually want to
disappoint them or make them

197
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,080
feel rubbish or make them be
annoyed at you.

198
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,320
But you just have to remember of
the contract.

199
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,240
So how would you apply it then?
How would you approach it?

200
00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,840
Because you're absolutely right.
The amount.

201
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,480
I don't think these are bad
people all the time who are

202
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,280
saying things like, guys, we
need someone to do at the

203
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:26,440
weekend.
Yeah, they're really good

204
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,160
people, probably because they're
looking out for the kids.

205
00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,560
But how do you approach that
then just to answer this

206
00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:31,640
question directly before we move
on.

207
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,200
Yeah, yeah, sure.
You're in that situation.

208
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,559
You're really good on with your
leadership team.

209
00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,919
You know, they're good people
and they're saying you have to

210
00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:38,559
do, come on, got you.
Someone has to do at the

211
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,320
weekend.
How would you approach that

212
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:41,880
genuinely or say to someone they
should approach?

213
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,800
It if it was that exact example
of the of the weekend, I'd say

214
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,000
basically what you just said
there.

215
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,840
I'd say, let's just remind
ourselves someone doesn't have

216
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,760
to do that.
No one's contract stipulates

217
00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:51,960
that we should be working at the
weekend.

218
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,120
It is really nice.
And I'd probably give the same

219
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,200
example as you and say it's also
it would also be really nice if

220
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,920
we did XY and Z, but we don't
have the staff to do that

221
00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:01,240
because no one's paid to do
that.

222
00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,360
And we shouldn't be making
people feel bad because they

223
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:06,560
don't want to give up their
extra time.

224
00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:08,400
And I'm not prepared to make
myself feel bad.

225
00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:10,280
And you could even Chuck in if
you really want.

226
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,440
I don't think you should ever
have to give reasons, but if you

227
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,720
want to like really hit home, a
lot of people can will say

228
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,280
things like, so you'd like me to
sacrifice time with my own

229
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,000
children at the weekend to come
and do this.

230
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,360
You'd like me to sacrifice time
with my own family or sacrifice

231
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,920
X whatever it is that you're
doing to do that and make it

232
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,200
real and be like, just remember
what you're asking me is

233
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,320
unreasonable.
This is not part of my contract.

234
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,400
And that's it.
And then just say I'm sorry, but

235
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,000
I'll continue doing my job to a
really high standard within the

236
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,560
the remit of the job.
And if you want to change things

237
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:39,080
within the job boundaries, I
can't really complain.

238
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,080
I can have my opinion, but
ultimately, if it's in directed

239
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,360
time, you want me to do X but I
want to do Y.

240
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,400
Well, OK, that's a different
conversation to you saying

241
00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,280
outside of this contract time.
So sorry, but I'm not going to

242
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,520
be able to fulfil that.
I know it's a bit disappointing,

243
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,360
but we'll have to think of
another solution.

244
00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:57,120
Absolutely.
I think so.

245
00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:00,280
The right way to go about things
have to be brutally honest and

246
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,280
clear.
That's why I'd say to people is

247
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,000
be clear, be honest.
Don't try and push your foot

248
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,640
around it and say Oh no, because
I've got this at the weekend.

249
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,600
Well, that means you have to
make up something else next time

250
00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,320
to make up something else next
time.

251
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,400
The answer can just be no
because of this.

252
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,600
And I think there is a small
thing, just think about this

253
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,280
question because I thought we've
kind of gone off on one there.

254
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,960
There is a small part to say in
other jobs, I imagine people

255
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,720
would not teaching this into
this being like, well, if it was

256
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,000
in my job, right, and I had this
project and actually I did it in

257
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,560
half the time because things are
going really well.

258
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,760
It would be reasonable for my
boss to say, well, I didn't

259
00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,000
expect you to do that job this
quick, but you are paid for 10

260
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,400
hours and you've done it in six.
So here's another bunch of stuff

261
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,040
now you can do in those other
four hours.

262
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,760
Those people would be like, I
wouldn't be able to just say,

263
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,200
no, I did the job quicker.
That's my morale's really high

264
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:45,720
because I did it quicker.
Now I should have those four

265
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,480
hours off.
Do you think there's any

266
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,440
comparison between that example
and what you think is happening

267
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,480
in teaching?
I think the biggest issue we

268
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,840
have with teaching when it comes
to people outside of the job

269
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,800
looking in and saying those
kinds of things always happens

270
00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,120
in my job.
I always go above and beyond.

271
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,920
I always do the extra stuff is
you have to remember that built

272
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,640
into this job, we're already
doing extra.

273
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,000
This is what I always say to
people.

274
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,080
It's like I'm like beating this
drum against the wall there.

275
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,440
There isn't a situation where a
teacher isn't already doing

276
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:12,760
stuff outside the contracted
hours.

277
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,080
OK.
And that is stuff that directly

278
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,640
links to what's happening in the
classroom.

279
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,960
I've got to plan my lessons.
I've got to mark based on the

280
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,200
schools marketing policy.
I've got to have meetings with

281
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,760
parents about, you know, needs
of children in the class.

282
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,000
I do parents evenings.
I do open evenings, All this

283
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,880
kind of stuff that's linked to
the actual being in the

284
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,400
classroom delivering my role.
I'm already doing that extra.

285
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,360
And that is baked into the
contract that we have to do a

286
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,200
bit extra.
So whenever anyone says, well,

287
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:37,440
I'd do extra, but like, yeah, I
do.

288
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:39,800
I do do extra.
But when we're talking

289
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,720
specifically about directed
weekend work, of doing stuff

290
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,760
outside of my job, outside of my
contract, there is no

291
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,000
justification in the world to
say that I should do it.

292
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,400
You can say that maybe it's a
nice thing to do.

293
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:53,920
You can say maybe it's good for
the kids.

294
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,360
You can put an argument forward
to to describe anything.

295
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:57,680
Almost.
OK.

296
00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,440
Do you run an under Nines
football club, Mr you know,

297
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,360
bricklayer who who who doesn't
have a child in that team?

298
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,720
Do you run that club?
No, of course you don't.

299
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,200
Of course you don't do that.
I don't think you're a bad

300
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,160
person.
But if you did it, I'd be like,

301
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:11,760
good on you mate.
That's quality.

302
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,080
That's nice.
Well, that's really lovely.

303
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,880
Well done pal.
But if you don't, I don't

304
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,080
demonise you.
I don't say it's going to oh,

305
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,040
you might have to go on a
capability plan then for your

306
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,920
building work.
It's nothing to do with it.

307
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:22,760
It's separate.
And this is what's sad about

308
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,400
this situation.
Sometimes people feel like they

309
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,360
can't do that because they think
they're now be targeted as soon

310
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,200
as they say no to these clubs
outside of school.

311
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,120
Oh, that's weird.
The three people who said no

312
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,360
live in two months.
They're on a capability plan

313
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,560
because they're because of their
planning of their math, because

314
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,160
they're being targeted, because
it's not easy sometimes to speak

315
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:41,440
up and say no about these
things.

316
00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,440
But you have to do it.
And as a staff, you have to do

317
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,080
it collectively.
And I'll say this again, be

318
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,920
really clear.
If you're the kind of person who

319
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,600
goes above and beyond and does
all of this stuff, you are a

320
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,160
lovely person that's doing
really good things for the kids.

321
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,120
But you have to be the first
person in that meeting saying

322
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,240
I'll do this.
But Mike, you should absolutely

323
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,800
not expect anyone to.
And you need to be defending

324
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,280
your colleagues and you have to
be a front on this.

325
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,160
And you have to understand that
you're not wearing this amazing

326
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,280
badge of honour and doing an
amazing thing and you're not

327
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:12,720
better than everyone because of
this.

328
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,880
You're doing a good thing that
should be celebrated.

329
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,840
But you have to defend your
staff.

330
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,040
Don't just watch as they're made
to feel like crap because

331
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,120
they're not giving up their
weekends just because you chose

332
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:22,960
to.
You should be the loudest in the

333
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,160
room saying I'll do this but
never ever expect this from

334
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,320
anyone at at all.
Or me in the future just because

335
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,400
I did it once.
I see that happen all the time.

336
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:33,600
It's literally happened with
Lauren multiple times because

337
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,280
we're now we've got we've got a
child now.

338
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,160
So our lives are very different.
Years and years and years ago,

339
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,680
Lauren did all sorts of extras.
She did because she was part of

340
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:42,640
the PE leader our school years
ago.

341
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,640
And she did like a swimming club
and she took went to swimming

342
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,440
tournaments and she did speed
stacks clubs and tournaments,

343
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,080
all this stuff.
You ended up every cross

344
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,360
country.
Obviously she just can't do that

345
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,280
now, but she just can't do it
now.

346
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,800
OK, she could.
Doesn't.

347
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,400
Want to yeah, yeah, exactly that
even if she could.

348
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,080
That's what I mean because it's
in the past.

349
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,960
I see it all the time.
I know people be like, oh, you

350
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,600
you've you used to used to love
doing this.

351
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:05,880
You do.
You can do this again as well.

352
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:08,360
That's just because I did it in
the past.

353
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,200
Don't please don't then assume
that my life is very different

354
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,880
now and I was doing that as
extra.

355
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,400
That wasn't the baseline.
So defend yourself for the

356
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,480
future because honestly it will
come back and bite you if you

357
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,600
don't like but also defend your
your staff like just you've got

358
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,400
to protect everyone including
your future self.

359
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,160
The only reason before I move
on, I said then she can is

360
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,680
because I want that to be what
everyone knows and understands,

361
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,120
that you don't have to not be
able.

362
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,360
You don't have to have a reason
that you can't do it, to not do

363
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,640
it.
You could do all of these

364
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:36,720
things.
And let's say your Saturday

365
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,680
morning is free and you can do
it.

366
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,040
I want everyone to know still
that you shouldn't be forced to

367
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,040
just because you can, you know,
could Lauren leave Rivi with you

368
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,560
for the morning and go?
Of course you could.

369
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:49,920
Don't want to though, and it's
absolutely fine.

370
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:51,400
Yeah.
And that's, that's the end of

371
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,640
it, you know, it being a can or
can't thing.

372
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,200
But we did it in the past,
doesn't matter.

373
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,200
Doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter.

374
00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,600
Yeah, completely.
Because I said in the past that

375
00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:59,640
don't hold me to account for
this.

376
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,920
I'm doing this this one time.
I know it's nice and it's extra.

377
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,960
That's it.
Yeah, yeah, You know, absolutely

378
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:05,360
right.
Right.

379
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,680
Next question.
What is the most appropriate

380
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,080
response to injuring yourself in
front of the class?

381
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,160
I accidentally shut the tip of
my sausage in a filing cabinet

382
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,120
and nearly swore.
Lots of love, Carl.

383
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,600
Hickbread.
Well, Carl, haven't we all been

384
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,640
there?
What a flex.

385
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,000
Oh no, how?
How have you done that mate?

386
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,360
You telling everyone, are you?
Ohh, the filing cabinet the

387
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,800
other side of the room.
Ohh yeah.

388
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,560
So crazy, that filing cabinet
that's by my feet, that's mad

389
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,720
that I, I can't.
I don't know how I did that,

390
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,440
everyone.
I got a court underneath this

391
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,960
chair.
Oh my God, what is the

392
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,800
appropriate response?
What's the worst pain you've

393
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:44,920
ever had in the classroom?
Like with the kids there?

394
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,840
Can you remember?
I remember vividly having a

395
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,720
Nosebleed.
It's not pain but I remember

396
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,280
teaching and just blood starting
to pull.

397
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,440
From my nose.
I had to just leave the room and

398
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,360
get an adult just to stand at
the door and be like I'll be

399
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,280
right back.
Luckily I caught a bunch of it

400
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:58,960
in my hand but it's not a nice
thing.

401
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,440
Is it in front of your class?
I remember the children noticed

402
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,200
before I did so some of the
faces I was teaching them was

403
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,440
like, what do you think?
And they were like, you're OK.

404
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,720
I was like fine.
Blood everywhere.

405
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,520
Yeah, so that wasn't necessarily
pain.

406
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,160
I guess the worst pain I've
always felt is trapping your

407
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:17,520
feet when a kid's swinging on
their.

408
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:18,880
Chair.
Oh my God, Yeah, that is

409
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,720
something.
Insane pain right on a toe or

410
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,120
like the little toe at the end
and I just want to scream.

411
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,600
What's the pro?
I think if that was me, I'd be

412
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,760
like, I'll let you know.
Your little.

413
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,720
What you doing get?
Out I've told you 67 times oh,

414
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:39,360
don't say 6-7 yeah, I think the.
Appropriate response is to

415
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,440
completely lose your rag, go
absolutely mad.

416
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:43,840
All specialism at the window.
Now.

417
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,320
It's a tricky 1, isn't it?
I think if I actually think

418
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,920
about the times that I've been,
I've had a couple of migraines,

419
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,840
you know, I mean stuff like that
where you think, you know what,

420
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,880
my head is killing me.
Or get your sausage.

421
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,720
You know, I can't say I've ever
done that.

422
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,400
I remember, I vividly remember
having to walk like into my

423
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,800
cupboard because I was in so
much pain from my foot.

424
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,680
Honestly, I was like, you crack
on your work, please.

425
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,160
And I had to go into the room.
But look, it was so

426
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,960
excruciating, so funny.
And yeah, my I don't about you.

427
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,720
Like I think there's a lot of
teachers out there who swearing.

428
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,440
Like, again, people watching
this podcast.

429
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,520
I get the odd thing.
Swearing's like a it's actually

430
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,000
quite a big part of my
vocabulary.

431
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,720
Like outside of school, I swear
probably a bit more than the

432
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,720
average person A.
Bit more, a bit more.

433
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,640
Quite a lot more.
Because well, the point being

434
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,120
like, it's just what I grew up
with, you know what I mean?

435
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:33,360
Like it's just like family heard
swearing all the time.

436
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,560
So it's like kind of just within
my vocabulary.

437
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,320
And I I my first thought in my
head, it took me a long time to

438
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,520
learn this in school because the
first thing that always came to

439
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,560
my head was like, now like if
something annoyed me, I'm

440
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,920
laughing sake, sorry all the
beeps in this episode.

441
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,960
But yeah.
So I had to really train myself

442
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:51,960
to not do that.
Yeah.

443
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,760
And I found I don't you when I
do my teaching, like if you go

444
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,200
into a YouTube channel where
we're like modelling stuff or

445
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,960
like doing a maths or English or
anything like that, if I watch

446
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,840
it back, I'm like, that's not
me.

447
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,400
Like you're going to like
another extent you.

448
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:05,560
It's the same with like the
reaction.

449
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,480
But even this to an extent,
because we try not to swear,

450
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,640
obviously with a couple of swear
words, but we do actively think.

451
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,320
You should see the bloopers.
Yeah, sometimes we have stopped

452
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,000
in the past because we've been
like, oh, I didn't want actually

453
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,520
want to swear there.
I don't want to bleep it out.

454
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,120
We've redone a bit.
Yeah, I can.

455
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,040
I thought of one while she was
talking about the time I was in

456
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,600
pain.
I only talked because I knew you

457
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:22,720
needed time.
Yeah, and it came.

458
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,480
It came to me.
You probably saw me start like

459
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,280
giggling to myself.
When you were talking.

460
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,360
So it's very linked to this in a
way because it was only a

461
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:31,600
sausage roll.
It was, I had sausage roll.

462
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,640
It really hurt my stomach.
No, it was outside and we're

463
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,560
playing with, you know, those
they're like rugby ball shaped

464
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,960
with a bit of a bit of a a bit.
Of a tail?

465
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:41,880
No, I know what you mean.
You know they whizzed through.

466
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,280
Don't.
You and you can launch them so

467
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,920
far just playing with a couple
of kids and one of them threw

468
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,960
one at me and hit me right in
the private.

469
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,320
It's like, you know, you know,
that absolute sweet spot that's

470
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,880
like cripplingly painful.
And I had that massive stomach

471
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,880
ache and I was like, Oh my God.
And and they saw they did it.

472
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,600
I didn't mean to, but I, I was
brought to my knees, honestly,

473
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,320
on the floor.
I was in so much pain and they

474
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,560
came over and all you can do, I
feel like is just say I'm in a

475
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,480
lot of pain.
It's going to take me a minute,

476
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,560
but there's no point pretending
you're not unlike trying to roll

477
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,680
off.
I'm in a lot of pain that really

478
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:14,640
hurt.
It was just an accident.

479
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,800
Don't worry, I'm just gonna need
a minute.

480
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,960
And I just honestly had to like
stay on my knees for like like

481
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,880
30 seconds and eventually got up
and walked it off and so much.

482
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,200
And the issue is your knees are
so bad.

483
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,880
Good girl, your knees are.
Added to the pain of my knees.

484
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,800
But yeah, in that situation, if
you injure yourself from the

485
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,160
class, you've just got to be
honest, I think.

486
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:35,520
I don't think there's any point
in pretending.

487
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:36,920
You didn't.
Sorry kids, my sausage got

488
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,480
trapped in the final cabinet.
Bloody hell, anyone seeming knob

489
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,160
gets stuck in that cabinet
there.

490
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,480
Blimey, no, maybe don't say
that.

491
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,840
But honesty to a degree.
Yeah, it depends what it's.

492
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,400
That's probably the only
situation.

493
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:48,560
Just hurt myself.
Yeah.

494
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,360
What did you do, Sir?
Just, you know.

495
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,920
Yeah, it's funny how this, the
one that's written, is probably

496
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,040
one of the rare examples of
where you can't actually just

497
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,640
say what you've just done and
hurt yourself.

498
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,920
My advice is to be honest and
tell me exactly what happened

499
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,400
apart from the question that we
literally.

500
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,680
Is the worst answer I've ever.
Given, I remember one time

501
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,880
linked to this, it's not me, but
I remember feeling absolutely

502
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,280
dreadful because it was like the
end of the year, John, you gotta

503
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,200
play rounders in the field.
I felt an afternoon.

504
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,200
I'm not doing this bloody lesson
on or whoever it is.

505
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,600
Let's never bleep for you.
I'll just go up to the field,

506
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,160
we'll play some rounders and the
kids were playing and they're

507
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,160
like Mr. Price, come on.
And their team was losing and I

508
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,120
was like, I'll kind of their
team.

509
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:27,680
Then I think I'm this big, go
on.

510
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,040
I'll wackle for a rounder, get
one.

511
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,480
Big boy price.
And so this kid's underarm

512
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,440
throat to me ready.
And I smashed it.

513
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,520
I absolutely smashed it.
Hit his throat, hit the boy's

514
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,520
throat, hit the boy's throat.
Oh my God, hit him with the

515
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,000
throat.
Couldn't like, of all the places

516
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,200
in the world, like where is
Adam's apple like right there.

517
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,680
And I was like, this is the
worst thing that's ever happened

518
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,960
to me.
So you know, immediately, like I

519
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,040
was like, ohh, God, what do I do
here?

520
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,240
Because there's no need for me
to have been in this situation.

521
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,280
I was literally just going in to
just get around.

522
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,360
Or did you get one kid?
No, didn't you get around that?

523
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:02,640
Even around?
Yeah, I left the kid in the

524
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,160
middle on the floor.
Ohh, no.

525
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,880
One second, one second got run
the last running, running my

526
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,920
helping.
So it's just you here, Class 1st

527
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,120
aider you go.
Meanwhile, you got 5 rounders.

528
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:17,120
Yeah, get going around 5
rounders accounts, guys, that's

529
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,400
55 for this team.
We win, we win.

530
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,240
Do we go in to get a wet paper
towel on that?

531
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,960
Anyway, I spoke to mum
afterwards and I was like, I'm

532
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:25,400
so sorry.
We were playing rounders and it

533
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,520
literally happened.
And this kid how?

534
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:27,880
Did you even say that?
I know.

535
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,960
I punted your son in the throat
with a with a full pelt adult

536
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,720
swing rounders.
Essentially, it wasn't a

537
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,480
rounders ball, OK, It was a
tennis ball, which is, you know,

538
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,520
less hard.
But yeah, it wasn't nice.

539
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:39,880
Obviously.
I was like, mate, I'm so sorry,

540
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,920
but to my mum was fine.
He was fine as well.

541
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:43,240
He actually found the funny side
of it.

542
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,640
Yeah, because he he was the one
goading me because he was the

543
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,080
bowler as well.
He's like, hey, come on then

544
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,000
that showed him, didn't it?
But yeah, mum was fine about it.

545
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,360
It went through good aim.
So I felt absolutely awful.

546
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,920
So in that situation again,
honesty, honesty is the best

547
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,120
policy.
I wanted to show off in front of

548
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,680
some 8 year olds actually.
And I into the throat and.

549
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,040
It worked though, didn't it?
It did work.

550
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,440
You did show off and everyone
remember that.

551
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:05,920
So no one ever forgot that game,
right?

552
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,760
In a jiffy, yeah.
That's so funny, honestly.

553
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,880
All right anyway, next one, how
to be a good teacher when you

554
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,600
have a cold and feel all round
rubbish instead of just being a

555
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,720
miserable old cow.
I feel so guilty when I get home

556
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,000
even though I've not been
horrible, just not my normal

557
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,440
bubbly self.
But I just find it so difficult

558
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,880
when all I want to do is just
line the sofa and recover and

559
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,040
recuperate.
Did you write this in?

560
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,960
You are quite.
Anyone listening to me right

561
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,320
now?
No man, I'm not a teacher

562
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,120
anymore.
Just just before you read that

563
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:40,880
question, we had to cut because
Dylan needed to cough off

564
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,680
camera.
He feels so rubbish.

565
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,560
That's hilarious.
How do you, how do you be a good

566
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:46,160
teacher?
I don't know.

567
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,000
It's a weird 1, isn't it?
Like you're still a good

568
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,360
teacher.
If you're a bit poorly, it

569
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:50,800
doesn't make you.
Doesn't make you.

570
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,640
You're not.
I mean, I'm not a good teacher

571
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,280
anyway because I'm not a teacher
anymore.

572
00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:00,000
Go on, you go.
No, I'm just going to say that I

573
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,520
think you know something we said
recently about every single day

574
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,600
that you're a teacher, there's
190 days, you're with the

575
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,080
children, There's absolutely no
way every day can be on the same

576
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,240
level.
It's impossible.

577
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,280
It's just human nature that we
have peaks and troughs and Bel

578
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:14,720
is going to be one of those
troughs.

579
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,120
And you have to, you have to
understand that you did what you

580
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,160
could.
Did you maximise what you could

581
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,360
have done that day?
Well, with the cold and feeling

582
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,040
like crap, yeah, I did actually.
Maybe it wasn't at that level

583
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,840
where if I'm firing on all
cylinders, but for that day in

584
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,080
that situation, I did what I
could.

585
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,160
And I think if you reframe it
like that, my advice would be

586
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,000
not to maybe change what you're
doing at all, but just change

587
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,720
your reframing of what's going
on because beating yourself up

588
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,520
about it when you're I'll, if
you went into school still,

589
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,520
let's say you're not contagious,
but you just feel a bit rundown.

590
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,960
And in those situations, you
should still go in.

591
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,080
If you're not going to make
anyone else I'll absolutely.

592
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,760
I don't think you should just
take those off fully nearly.

593
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,120
But if you've done that, you've
got him done your best for the

594
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,960
kids, left everything on the
table, get home, feel like crap.

595
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,720
Still, I'm sure you put in a
good shift.

596
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,320
If you ever felt like that when
you felt that in the past, did

597
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:00,720
you?
Were you quite honest with the

598
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,360
kids?
Because I always found, I always

599
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:04,640
found because that's such a nice
felt like that personal

600
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,560
relationship with the kids.
I just say to them because I'm

601
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,920
feeling a bit rundown today.
I might not be doing things

602
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,640
exactly.
As a normal massive advantage of

603
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,400
huge advantage.
OK, licking our lips right,

604
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,240
we've got him.
Mr Still is still I'll chucking.

605
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:16,080
Things at me?
Well, you don't.

606
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,840
You can throw things at me.
I can still see that.

607
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:22,040
I was quite proud of my Mr still
is still I'll I'll my next line.

608
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,600
Not really conversation we have,
is it?

609
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,600
No, just two separate thought
trains and we're just waiting

610
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,360
for that.
It's like kids at nursery, isn't

611
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,040
it?
Yeah, they just parallel,

612
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,120
parallel play, not actually
interacting.

613
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,120
I've got everything I want to
say.

614
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:33,400
You got everything you want to
say.

615
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,240
We just just go back with.
The battle Who'd you like the

616
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:36,920
most?
Like me the most?

617
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:37,600
Like me?
More like me.

618
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:38,480
More listeners.
Like me.

619
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,040
Not Dylan.
If you like Hayden more, leave

620
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,000
us a review.
If you like me more, leave us a

621
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,200
review.
Oh, that's clever.

622
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:45,400
I wonder which one?
Yeah, that's funny.

623
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:46,840
Yeah, it's good.
If you think Dylan's funny,

624
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,600
leave a review.
Oh, it's not funny.

625
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:50,640
It's not.
Funny, I can think of it.

626
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,280
You've got editorial, you know,
snip, snip, final cutting.

627
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,560
This you just cut out, right.
Anyway, so that's me.

628
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,480
I'd be reframing.
I'd be like, you can have crap

629
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,160
days in terms of being honest
with the kids.

630
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,320
Yeah.
Jokes aside, absolutely.

631
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,000
The amount of times I would say
to the kids, guys, I've got a

632
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,680
banging headache right now.
Sometimes I said it when I

633
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,320
didn't just because it worked so
well.

634
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,560
So like every now and then,
black guys, I just just, I can't

635
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,120
really speak loudly because my
voice and yeah, but in general,

636
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:20,680
they're actually quite good.
Not like you, you'd be

637
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,320
horrendous to teach, but in
general they're just like, okay,

638
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,840
and they crack on.
So yeah, I've used it sometimes,

639
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,160
even when I've not been ill.
And if you are genuinely too

640
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,640
ill, as Dylan said many times in
the past, the best thing you can

641
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,440
do to be a good teacher is not
come in honestly.

642
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,320
There is, there is a point where
the the literal best thing you

643
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,520
can do is just not be in school
spreading your illness.

644
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,840
I just, I just stay at home and
then recoup quicker and then you

645
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,120
can come back in. 110 million
percent.

646
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,400
Wow.
Next up, I'm new to mass

647
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,440
leadership after nine years
leading English and I have a

648
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,360
very old school colleague who is
very resistant to change but

649
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,800
maths is an area of weakness at
my new school.

650
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,000
Any advice for this and maths
lead in general?

651
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,120
Very tough one.
Really, really hard when you've

652
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:10,480
got a member of staff who just
blocked everything, like it's

653
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,800
very, very, very hard because
you almost cannot get around

654
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,440
that without just being like,
well, I'm putting my foot down

655
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,480
like this is how it's going to
happen.

656
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,760
OK, straight away before we get
into this then do you not think

657
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,200
that we sometimes champion that
a bit too much champion what

658
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:24,440
saying no?
Yeah.

659
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,600
How many times have we said
don't just change things or as

660
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,360
well in any, don't just do all
that, you know, it's going to

661
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,680
increase my workload massively.
These changes sound like, you

662
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,800
know, changes in maths
fundamentally will increase

663
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,840
workload.
We are very big advocates for

664
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,000
people being like, say no,
Someone hearing you at that

665
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,080
point saying, oh, it's tough
when people just say no, isn't

666
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,840
it feels to me kind of
hypocritical.

667
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,360
So how would how would you
address that?

668
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:46,880
I think that's fair enough.
I think that's, I think that's

669
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,120
completely fair.
I'm going in with the mindset

670
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:52,160
here that this person is is
making a reasonable change.

671
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,640
So maybe I shouldn't have
presumed that.

672
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,080
No, but OK, So even if it's not
a reasonable change, let's say

673
00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:58,760
maths is dire, let's say change
is needed.

674
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,560
Yeah, it's literally needed in
this school because it is dire.

675
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,240
You know, is change bad then?
Like all I'm trying to coax out

676
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,360
of you is this idea of, OK, it's
all well and good saying no to

677
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:13,640
stuff all the time.
Yeah, we seem to champion, but I

678
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,000
don't feel like that's our
message.

679
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,880
No, I don't think so.
So how would you clarify it?

680
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,080
Because I think sometimes it can
come across like it would be

681
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,080
very fair for someone to say,
well, you guys always say say

682
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:22,840
no.
Yeah.

683
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,960
Why you wait till Max colleagues
like they're blocking stuff like

684
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,560
they're bad.
You've literally said to me

685
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,280
before, if you're doing
wholesale changes, then just

686
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:30,480
hold your horses a bit.
OK.

687
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,200
So just on that then, how are
you framing this straight away?

688
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,480
Let's be really clear because I
think when we say about saying

689
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,680
no and putting your foot down
and saying I'm not going to do

690
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,480
this, we are always doing it
under the caveat of the change

691
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:45,720
that's coming.
Or the thing that you've just

692
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,480
been asked of you is completely
unjustified and unreasonable.

693
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,680
Like, and you can point to
something and go, This is why

694
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,920
this massive increase in my
workload will have no impact.

695
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,080
So therefore I'm not going to
do.

696
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,680
It or it even does have an
impact, but it's alongside 7

697
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,640
changes.
And, and it's disproportional,

698
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,160
right, as well.
There's 2 two ways of doing

699
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,720
that.
There's 15 things happening at

700
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:03,680
once.
And you're saying, look, these

701
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,520
are all great, but I can only do
one or two of these things at

702
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,760
any given time.
So we need to rethink about what

703
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,360
the structure is of how we're
going to make this change over

704
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:12,400
time, right?
That's why it's completely

705
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,280
reasonable.
And the other thing is I can see

706
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:15,680
that that might make a slight
impact.

707
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,400
It will take me 10 hours and it
will make 1% difference.

708
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,640
At which point I'm going to
argue to you that this is

709
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,040
completely unfair and
unreasonable because it will

710
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,760
impact my time outside of the
job, completely outside the

711
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,400
direct of time.
And that's when you can start

712
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,520
saying no, put your foot down,
be really, really, really clear

713
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,200
of that.
But if you're in a simply in a

714
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,160
situation where maths is in a
dire situation and the maths

715
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,360
lead is saying I've got a plan
for the next two years, I've got

716
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,360
a plan for the next year.
And they've thought about this

717
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,080
being reasonable.
It's not an unreasonable amount

718
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,160
of extra workload like we do as
teachers, we are simply expected

719
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,840
to plan and deliver lessons.
That planning sometimes does

720
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,200
take a bit longer than other
times.

721
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,960
There is a bar, you know when it
goes way beyond that.

722
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,680
That's what we're saying.
You could say no at this point,

723
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,520
but if it's within the remit of
the job, which is ultimately you

724
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,560
need to deliver effective
lessons to children, that is

725
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,120
your job.
And the planning is dire and the

726
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,080
everything about maps is dire so
far it.

727
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,360
And as a mass lead, you should
be able to say, here's the plan,

728
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,280
here's our school improvement
plan for the next two years.

729
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:10,920
This is the first thing we're
going to work on.

730
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,200
I'm going to deliver some staff
training.

731
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:13,320
I'm going to get some training
in.

732
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,880
I've got some resources here.
I've taken a bit, I've done a

733
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,320
bunch of the work for you as a
mass lead.

734
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,600
And this is what you need to do
now to implement this change.

735
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,200
We'll review it in three months
and then we'll move on to our

736
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,760
next step.
And someone's just saying I'm

737
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:24,680
not doing that.
OK.

738
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,760
I, I really appreciate the
clarity because that is bang on

739
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,840
one I think as well.
So that's really clear then.

740
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,960
So in this situation, what would
you give advice then for these

741
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,320
maths leads?
Because I think you've mentioned

742
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,720
something there about, you know,
a time frame.

743
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,120
I think giving a really clear
time frame can help get people

744
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,080
on board.
I think all of the things you've

745
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,200
talked about are very, very
clear to me.

746
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,600
OK, I really want to narrow down
into you are literally working

747
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,480
with someone who just has the
mindset that what you're doing

748
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,320
is bad and it's not.
Let's just say it's not.

749
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,800
It does need revamping, but
they've been doing it for 25

750
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,200
years.
They say it works for me, it's

751
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,480
great.
But as a school, you do just

752
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,400
need to move in this direction.
How do you convince them that a

753
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,920
different way might actually not
only be better, but and not be

754
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,360
so bad for them to?
Improve, sure.

755
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,600
I mean there's three prongs for
this.

756
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,400
Number one is actually talk to
this person, develop a genuine

757
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,400
relationship with this person so
they can actually like talk to

758
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,120
you and trust you.
Like if you don't do that bit, a

759
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,080
lot of leaders don't do that.
And he's like, it's just like

760
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,920
talking to a brick wall and know
who you're talking to.

761
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,000
Develop a relationship with them
#2 do it yourself.

762
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,440
Like actually show them you need
to, you need to give them

763
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,080
something.
You can't just say this is going

764
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,760
to work in my ideological world.
Show them maybe you've been

765
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,400
doing it for a couple months
already, whatever this change

766
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,720
is, and literally put the
comparison in front of them and

767
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:40,960
say, look, here's what we're
doing before.

768
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,400
There's some pros and cons to
what you're doing.

769
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,400
And this is really great, but
these areas are really weak.

770
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,360
And actually look at the way
we're doing it here.

771
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,680
We can maintain these pros that
you like about what you were

772
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,520
doing it and we can really
develop these weaknesses.

773
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,840
And I've done it for two months
and have a look.

774
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,640
Don't you agree?
Show them.

775
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,160
And my third prong is back up
and research as well.

776
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,880
If presumably you're doing this
because you've learned about it

777
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,400
from somewhere, show them that
as well.

778
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,160
Say, This is why we're doing it.
It comes from all this research

779
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,080
here.
All these studies have shown

780
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,120
it's really effective.
This is me doing it.

781
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,840
And you can see the comparative
effects here and how good it is.

782
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,560
And also I'm talking to you face
to face and we can arrange some

783
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,000
more time to talk if you want to
go through it.

784
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,720
And I'm happy to continue
developing this positive

785
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,720
relationship with you so that we
can make the change we actually

786
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,760
need to make in our school.
As a leader, I feel like doing

787
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,280
circling around those three
things, you can generally turn

788
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,120
people onto your side because
they realise you're not just

789
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,120
some top down press who wants to
make a name for themselves and

790
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,240
you don't really care about what
you're doing.

791
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,520
You just want to be the guy
that's put their foot down and

792
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:33,440
controlled everyone in the
school.

793
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,120
Because I think that's what
people think sometimes.

794
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,160
You're actually just a
reasonable person who wants to

795
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,680
develop the quality of teaching
and learning in your school.

796
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,160
And 99.9% of teachers, when they
realise that that is your true

797
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,440
motive, will actually be on your
side because guess what?

798
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,920
That's what they want to do as
well.

799
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,280
They just want to be good
teachers.

800
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,320
Do you see there's much room for
compromise as a leader?

801
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,960
I've always found this really,
you know, really fascinating to

802
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,160
us.
You talked about not wanting to

803
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,680
be the the leader who comes in
and puts their foot down and

804
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,120
said this is better do this
because it can ruffle some

805
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,000
feathers.
However, there might be some

806
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,360
situations where it is better.
It just is better.

807
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,480
And you just as teachers, you
just don't like change.

808
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,840
You've done it your way, it
works for you, but there is a

809
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,880
better option out there.
Is there room for compromise?

810
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,040
Like because I'd say to leaders
out there, mass leads,

811
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,880
especially, I'm coming from my
kind of point of view of maths.

812
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,520
The amount of times where we've,
we've implemented things we've

813
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,440
said, right, we're going to use
this here's, but here's your

814
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,480
freedom and we've said here's
the structure and maybe the

815
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,440
progression that we have to map
across.

816
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,600
There's certain stuff that I as
a maths lead need to implement.

817
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,480
I have to put this in place,
guys.

818
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,920
I need to make sure that in a
year three classroom to a year 4

819
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,040
classroom to Year 5 classroom,
the individual child is getting

820
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,560
a really good, sensible
progression.

821
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,680
I have to make sure there's
coverage across the curriculum.

822
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,000
I have to make make sure that
what we're doing in terms of how

823
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,280
we're recapping basics and
fundamentals and how we're

824
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,120
moving on to the lesson and
covering the curriculum and how

825
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,840
we're doing interventions and
how we're looking at data and

826
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,360
filling gaps.
That also needs to be consistent

827
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:01,400
and need to know that's
happening.

828
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,520
But is there room for compromise
then?

829
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,040
Because you come in and say this
is better, this is better.

830
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,080
Should we be still building in
and as a leader saying to staff,

831
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,600
but you know what, if you feel
the need to do this, then do it.

832
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,600
Or do you think there has to be
from the top down all across you

833
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:22,880
convincing them to do it your
way?

834
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,240
I think ultimately that's the
goal is, is top down convince,

835
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,480
trying to convince people to do
it away.

836
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,160
But I think you cannot do that
without compromise.

837
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,440
I think it's important.
I don't.

838
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,560
I think it's literally
impossible.

839
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,600
I think you have to look at your
staff team as a leader and

840
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,840
consider everyone on a personal,
individual level.

841
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,760
There just will be some people
and there's so many reasons you

842
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,480
go through, some less valid to
some more valid reasons as to

843
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,600
why someone might not be able to
take on that workload right now

844
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:47,880
or might not even just know how
to.

845
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,080
Do it not even workload
literally fundamentally what

846
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,920
you're doing.
Ignore workload for a second.

847
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,000
I'm really pushing in here on I
think as a leader, mass leader,

848
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,000
the amount of time someone said
to me, oh, I do this for

849
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,640
addition number bond facts and
it really works.

850
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Like can I carry on doing this,
please?

851
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,400
And I've been like, hell yeah,
that's awesome.

852
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,280
Like it's not necessarily what I
put forward in my plan, but

853
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,159
that's a really good thing
that's helping the children,

854
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:11,040
improving that and you've
noticed it and it works well for

855
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,280
you.
Someone else might say, well,

856
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,000
for times tables, I do this with
my class because I've got a

857
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,480
leaderboard and it's really
competitive.

858
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:17,719
The class are competitive
together.

859
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,960
It's not a school wide thing.
You say do this for times

860
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,679
tables, but can I just do that?
And I've been like, yeah, that's

861
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,360
great practise.
What I'm talking about is

862
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,840
individual teachers who have
their own ideas and things that

863
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,440
work well for them.
I think I, I disagree slightly.

864
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,040
And I'd say that is
fundamentally part of being a

865
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,440
good leader.
And it's not just about

866
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:35,880
convincing everyone to do it my
way.

867
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,239
It's about being a team.
I've maybe got the expertise in

868
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,120
what's good and what's bad in
general, but I can't pretend

869
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,199
that my staff out there, some of
them won't know more than me in

870
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,080
certain things.
When it comes to these little

871
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,120
bits and bobs, I think the best
leaders look at it and go, do

872
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,639
you know what?
I'd be changing that for the

873
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,760
sake of it, maybe for my own
ego, maybe for my own vanity.

874
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,440
And sure, it might be rooted in
research and I know it works,

875
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,160
but you know what?
Clearly that works as well for

876
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,720
the benefit of the class as a
whole.

877
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:03,360
The teacher will be happy if
they're just doing that.

878
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,560
It's 5 minutes a lesson.
It's working great for the kids.

879
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,120
I'm not going to say no to you.
And I think that's where I'm

880
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,080
talking about compromise.
It's like I might have this 100%

881
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,440
utopian idea of in my head where
everything should look like all

882
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,680
the time.
And I can see then when people

883
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,480
push back why leaders might go
to that.

884
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,360
Well, I've tried to convince you
it's not working now tough,

885
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,480
you're all doing it this way.
I think the best leaders go

886
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,120
through that process of trying
to convince people to do stuff.

887
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,600
But on the way they go, yeah,
I'll concede that.

888
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:31,560
That's cool.
Bring that in.

889
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,480
Bring that in, cool.
And by the end, you're looking

890
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,720
at maybe 80% of what you wanted,
5% of this teacher, 2% of that

891
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:39,400
teacher.
And even not just everyone does

892
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,920
stuff that teacher does now, but
just the freedom to say to your

893
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,200
staff, this is what we're doing.
We have to, it's fundamentals

894
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:45,400
here.
We have to do this coverage, we

895
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,760
have to have this progression.
But if you want to do your times

896
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,840
tables like that, let's do it
and feedback and we'll see.

897
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,240
Oh, I'll say to everyone, look
at this great practise, try this

898
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:54,280
out.
Look at that great practise.

899
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,240
There can't be one way to do
something.

900
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,440
I think that's absolutely fine.
I, I, I don't disagree with what

901
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,040
you said at all.
I think I was very much going

902
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,400
down the lens of assuming the
thing that people are doing is

903
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,720
simply not good enough.
Whereas I think in that

904
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:08,240
situation, I think that is the
ultimate outcome.

905
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,160
It still stays true to what I'm
saying because what I'm saying

906
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,080
is ultimately you want to
convince everyone to be doing

907
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,480
the best thing for the kids.
If they happen to already be

908
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,800
doing something that you would
say is equally good for the

909
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,680
kids, then of course you're
going to compromise on that

910
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,520
character.
If the compromise is I really

911
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,280
don't do this thing and it's
absolutely objective and

912
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,000
terrible for the kids, you're
not going to be like, all right,

913
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,160
you can do that one thing.
I've got 80% good stuff now. 3%

914
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,120
of those is absolutely dire.
The thing they're doing for

915
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,320
their timetables is blow dark
mouse.

916
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,920
It's absolutely dreadful for the
kids.

917
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,600
I wouldn't compromise.
New listeners.

918
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,840
I think it was you know what I.
Mean like the compromise?

919
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,240
What you've made, I'm thinking
of a separate thing.

920
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:42,880
You're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right.

921
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,880
Because I guess I got my, I got
my back up a little bit in that

922
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,160
situation of just like, yeah, I
think you're just trying to

923
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,960
convince them to be your way.
I guess maybe we can come to

924
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,400
some kind of middle ground here,
which is just like you're trying

925
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,080
to get the best out for the kids
and everything you said, I think

926
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,040
answered this question really
good.

927
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,880
We kind of moved on a little bit
to, you know, as a leader, what

928
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,360
your advice would be.
My advice would be though, be

929
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,200
open to compromise.
Be open to compromise.

930
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,960
And you're like, they're not
coming along with me 100%.

931
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,920
You know what, can we get them
95% even, even if a part of that

932
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,520
is just not ideal?
Well, you've moved the dial on

933
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,520
like 9/10 of things like
progress is progress at the end

934
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,080
of the day, and you can work on
stuff.

935
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,200
And it might be that in the
first time you make a 20% move.

936
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:26,600
We've tried that and I'll call
it.

937
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:27,760
OK.
I've also been trying this with

938
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,520
timetables.
Should we give it a go?

939
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,560
What do you do?
We'll run it side by side.

940
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,000
Oh, actually at the end of
Christmas, your class seems to

941
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,320
be doing better at timetables.
We'll keep that.

942
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,600
Maybe that works great.
OK, cool.

943
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,960
We'll not move the dial.
Not moving the dial doesn't mean

944
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,680
failure.
I think if you're in the right

945
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,880
systems and do it the right way,
not moving the dial can be a

946
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,000
real positive sometimes.
A good thought experiment could

947
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,280
be for this person and other
people in the same sort of

948
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,560
situation, think about that
teacher who's resistant to

949
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,600
change, right?
And I want you to think about

950
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:52,680
their practise.
Make sure you know their

951
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,360
practise for a start.
It's so it's so easy to like get

952
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,160
people's back up because they
think you don't even know what I

953
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,880
do.
Make sure you actually go and

954
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,240
observe this person and see what
they do.

955
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,480
Look at that book, like find out
exactly how they do things

956
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,000
before you start saying
everything they do is wrong.

957
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,080
And genuinely, because I think
this will be true all the time.

958
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,480
Is 0% of what they do effective?
Yeah.

959
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:12,840
Because of course that's not
going to be true.

960
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,240
Of course, I want you as a
leader to look at that person

961
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:17,480
who you think are really
resistant to change.

962
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,360
And I do need to implement some
of these changes for good

963
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,640
reasons.
Look at what they do and find

964
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,120
the things that they're actually
really good at and praise them

965
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,800
for it and say continue doing
that and here are the things we

966
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,520
are going to change.
Work with them.

967
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:29,880
Don't work against them.
They don't need to.

968
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,600
They probably, they probably
like that because they've

969
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,080
experienced in the past too many
times people coming in don't

970
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,440
really know anything they do and
just saying scrap everything

971
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,400
you're doing.
Do this now, but why what I'm

972
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,520
doing is really effective.
Don't care.

973
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,640
Do this now and they're and
they're annoyed.

974
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,400
They get their back up because I
think people just change stuff

975
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,400
for the sake of it.
But if you go in and say, wow,

976
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,280
that works really well.
Like you said, there's your

977
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,920
compromise that works really
well.

978
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,720
I'm going to implement that in
with our with our policy.

979
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:52,360
I want everyone to start doing
what you're doing here.

980
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,760
But here's another thing I've
seen from another good teacher

981
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,640
or part of my policy that I, I
really want to implement this as

982
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:58,480
well.
Can you give it a go?

983
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,480
And you'll find that you can
just make change more subtly.

984
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,720
You think is good like that and,
you know, doing everything

985
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:06,560
you've said as well.
So I really like how you press

986
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,520
next on the PowerPoint.
Keep pressing Next on

987
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,080
PowerPoints, but here's all
PowerPoints user for now.

988
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,320
And here's 80, but keep pressing
the way you press Next on that

989
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,640
PowerPoint.
Is so good.

990
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:16,840
Well done.
Yeah.

991
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,560
Next tip.
Don't be patronising.

992
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,360
Don't find genuinely good
things.

993
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,480
Don't just say, Do you walk
around the room with such grace?

994
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:25,800
No.
Where did you get those shoes?

995
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,000
I'm gonna make a policy for
shoes at the school because

996
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,840
everyone should be wearing those
shoes because the shoes you walk

997
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,960
in are bloody fantastic.
They're Crocs, Yes.

998
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:34,000
Very comfortable.
Yeah.

999
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,360
That's an interesting question,
that one.

1000
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,560
Really, really good question.
Let's do another one.

1001
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,400
Yeah.
When visiting a new school for

1002
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,000
interview, what key things
should I look out for and should

1003
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,160
I ask to make sure that it's a
good place to work?

1004
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,920
Oh, I love this question so
much.

1005
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:49,840
Can.
Teachers wear Crocs.

1006
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,120
That's number one.
I honestly think that can

1007
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,000
teachers wear Crocs?
You say #1 do we number things

1008
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,960
when it's just one of them?
That's one thing.

1009
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,360
If they wear Crocs and you know
it's a good place, can you start

1010
00:39:58,560 --> 00:39:59,440
you?
You seem passionate and

1011
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,120
exciting.
No, the reason I love this is

1012
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:06,560
because I think it's so
important for especially new

1013
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,160
teachers to be equipped with
these ideas.

1014
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,280
And the first thing I say to you
is, oh, how do I put this?

1015
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,480
You can go and look around the
school and there are certain

1016
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:23,760
things that schools can put on.
Lie about, exaggerate, make

1017
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,120
sound good.
And there are certain things

1018
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,920
that you can't fake, right?
So what I would say to you is,

1019
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,000
you know, if you're walking
around with the head teacher of

1020
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,480
a school and the head teacher is
going on about how amazing life

1021
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,560
is for the staff and how
brilliant the children enjoy

1022
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,600
themselves, and it's just you
and the head teacher walking

1023
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,600
through the corridor.
Take it with a pinch of salt

1024
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,400
because literally anyone can say
that.

1025
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,600
I'm not saying they're wrong,
no, But what I'm saying is it

1026
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,520
doesn't mean they're right.
There's things that you can put

1027
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,200
lip service to to make sound
amazing.

1028
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,320
OK, so when it's with that,
still ask those questions, still

1029
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,200
say what's your policy when it
comes to marking?

1030
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,720
Still ask about, you know, do
the children enjoy school?

1031
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:03,120
Still ask about the timetable,
still ask what's expected from

1032
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:04,360
staff.
Do you have to run clubs and

1033
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,280
things like this?
Because it's hard to bare face

1034
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,440
lie and say no, we don't expect
clubs of our club of our

1035
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:10,800
teachers.
And then you join and it's like,

1036
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,080
oh, no, actually we did.
I just lied to you.

1037
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,800
That won't tend to happen.
So this, you know, I'd still ask

1038
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,120
all those questions, but I'd
really just, I'd steer people in

1039
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,280
the direction of what can you
not pretend what, what can you

1040
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,320
not put on for a walk around?
And for me, I say this all the

1041
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,680
time.
It really is the way that

1042
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,040
people, and I say people because
I mean everyone, every single

1043
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,280
role an adult has and every
single child, how do they

1044
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,840
interact with each other?
How do they naturally interact

1045
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,400
and talk and treat each other?
Because I don't think you can

1046
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,440
fake that.
And for me personally, this is 1

1047
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,760
string, OK, because we've talked
about workload a million times

1048
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,440
and that can be separate.
But I do find that if you go

1049
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,520
into a school and you know, the
site manager is in the office

1050
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,160
with the, with the office staff
and a teaching assistant walks

1051
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,640
in and there's a child
delivering the register, just

1052
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,240
look at that.
You know, it's small things like

1053
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:07,440
the office staff being really
jolly and happy with the kids,

1054
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,720
the teaching assistant saying,
oh, you're right, mate, to the

1055
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:12,160
site manager, How you doing?
Is having a chat camaraderie?

1056
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:12,600
Yeah.
Yeah.

1057
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,920
Just I think, I really think
that that is such a green flag

1058
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,280
in places where no matter where
you are on the spectrum in terms

1059
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,320
of what you might say is
traditionally a hierarchy in a

1060
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:23,040
school.
Yeah.

1061
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,200
Does it, does it feel like the
interactions between people

1062
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,480
transcend that?
Because you might get really

1063
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,840
nice conversations between three
teachers who are sat together.

1064
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,440
That doesn't tell me much.
You know, it's nice.

1065
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,840
It's great.
But then when the head teacher

1066
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,560
walks in with you for a tour,
how do they react?

1067
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,240
Yeah.
Is it relaxed and like, hey,

1068
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:44,560
hey, guys, How you doing?
That's nice.

1069
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:45,440
Oh, yeah.
Brilliant.

1070
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,080
Oh, nice one.
Yeah.

1071
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,320
Or is it you notice the
shoulders go up and oh, God,

1072
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,960
I've got to get back to work
because, you know, what's that

1073
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,120
like?
What's the dynamic like?

1074
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:54,840
Does the head teacher know the
children?

1075
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,560
You know, does he walk past the
corridor and the kid opens the

1076
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,960
door for them?
They go, oh, thanks, Frankie.

1077
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,240
You know, just just things like
that.

1078
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:03,560
And this is the reason I love
this question because schools

1079
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,880
are unbelievable places to work
in When you're in the right

1080
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,600
school, the sense of community
is unbelievable.

1081
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,560
It's genuinely one of the best
parts of the job.

1082
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,320
Honestly, I'd love it so much
where you just feel like a team.

1083
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,200
And I think when different
members of the staff team and

1084
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,560
different children and, and all
the roles come together and just

1085
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,760
have this balance and equity, I
love that.

1086
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,800
And I think I want to be part of
that team.

1087
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,080
So that's a huge thing for me.
I'd say maybe you can go into

1088
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,880
some more hardcore stuff that
actually is, you know what, what

1089
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,680
workload etcetera is.
But I think unless that's right,

1090
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:37,680
I'm not bothered about working
in the school.

1091
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,600
I was going to say, and it was
one of your last ones, it was

1092
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,680
the biggest one for me.
So I'll just summarise it

1093
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,080
quickly because you basically
said it is how people respond

1094
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,640
when the people that are showing
you around walk in the room.

1095
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,200
That one to me is like.
Keep.

1096
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,240
Why do you think that's key?
What does that show you?

1097
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,480
And it shows what kind of
relationship the staff have with

1098
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,120
their superiors.
And I think that's really

1099
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:03,200
important in education where it
is the, you know, 10s of

1100
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:04,920
thousands of people leaving this
job all the time.

1101
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,040
And it there are lots of toxic
places and workload can be dire

1102
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:12,800
so easily in so many places.
Seeing how your head teacher and

1103
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,120
the staff respond to each other
and just react, like you said,

1104
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,680
if they're getting the shoulders
up or if a teacher looks like

1105
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,960
they're getting nervous when you
walk in that classroom, yeah, it

1106
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,720
might be just because they just
get a bit nervous when anyone

1107
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:24,080
comes in.
But if it happens like 17 times

1108
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,840
you go in all these different
classrooms, I would be thinking

1109
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,520
I wonder why that is.
But then they go to the

1110
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,800
assistant heads office.
Hey my guy.

1111
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,080
And they're already.
Bali yeah, It stands out,

1112
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:32,640
doesn't it?
It does.

1113
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,480
It does stand out.
And that that is genuinely like

1114
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,680
the biggest thing for me is
literally that, like you said,

1115
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,080
because it's hard to fake
people's reactions to help.

1116
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:40,880
Because I can think of a school
I worked in right now where if

1117
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,280
the headteach came round, I
would be sweating because

1118
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,160
everything, all they want to do
is catch me out and it's and it

1119
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,480
and make me feel rubbish.
And I can think of a school I've

1120
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:48,880
worked in where the headteacher
came in.

1121
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,120
All I'd be thinking is how can I
have some bad with them right

1122
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:52,520
now with the class because the
class will love it.

1123
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,080
Get them involved for a few
seconds and then they're going

1124
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,160
to go away and do something else
like and it's just I like having

1125
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,680
them in the classroom.
It's another body.

1126
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,520
It's another it's fun and it's
you could so easy if I was

1127
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,600
walking around, you know,
looking at myself in those two

1128
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,760
situations, I could very quickly
tell which school I would not

1129
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,960
want to be working and clearly
isn't very nice and which school

1130
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,360
is probably quite a nice place
to work in.

1131
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,240
But obviously on top of all
that, you would just be asking

1132
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:13,240
the good questions that you said
at the start, just literally

1133
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,440
find out as much as you can
without being too over the top.

1134
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,560
So I think there can be a point
where someone might be like

1135
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,440
cracky, just ask a few key
questions about workload.

1136
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,360
What the, what policies are
like, what's, what's the

1137
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,760
corridor display like, you know,
looking around the corridor

1138
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:25,960
displays.
Oh, these are really nice.

1139
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,040
How do these, what's your sort
of policy on this?

1140
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,000
Oh, well, once the turn we get
our Tasmania a day out and they

1141
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,560
come out and come around and
whip up some displays.

1142
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:34,600
Fantastic.
Or oh, we just expect our

1143
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:35,840
teachers to change them every
two weeks.

1144
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,120
OK, interesting, interesting
different responses there.

1145
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,720
You know what I mean?
Stuff like that.

1146
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,120
You just just find out little
bits about the workload and the

1147
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,800
policies that you can and then
just make an informed decision,

1148
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,640
get the feel for the school, a
few legitimate questions, put it

1149
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,160
all together.
Yeah.

1150
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,440
And then and trust your gut,
genuinely trust your gut.

1151
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,800
And if you get the opportunity,
not most of the time you won't

1152
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,760
get this opportunity.
So it's easy to say if you get

1153
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,200
the opportunity to actually talk
to a member of staff.

1154
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:01,960
Oh.
My God, exactly what I was about

1155
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,800
to say if.
You if you can actually like not

1156
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,960
in not in the little group and
they're just like being robotic.

1157
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,840
Oh yes, we love doing this gun
to the back.

1158
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,800
We love we love being prodded.
We love the workload policy here

1159
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,760
is great.
Like, you know, an actual

1160
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,320
conversation.
You just say to them, oh, what's

1161
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:18,960
it like working here?
Thinking about applying?

1162
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,760
Is it a nice place to work like?
What's your work like?

1163
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,240
Have you watched the film Get
Out?

1164
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:24,880
Yeah.
Where the guy, he goes, he goes

1165
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:26,640
to the family reunion.
And then like there's one just

1166
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,640
kind of like crying like this is
a great.

1167
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,360
Place to be, yeah, I haven't
seen that.

1168
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,160
Yeah, so.
I agree constantly to think

1169
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,480
about that.
Talk to people, talk to people.

1170
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,200
That's the best thing.
And yeah, some someone once

1171
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,440
said, you know, would asking
this question put people off

1172
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,640
hiring me?
And I was thinking about like,

1173
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,200
I'm like, so interesting.
Because there's clearly two ways

1174
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,640
you can go about it that are
just legitimate, which is, yeah,

1175
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,320
do you know what?
Pushing too much about how

1176
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,640
little work you want to do at
the weekend might put you off

1177
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,760
getting the job.
But my, my thought is always, if

1178
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,880
that puts off someone hiring me,
then I don't want to work for

1179
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:03,480
them.
There is a line that you have to

1180
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,800
decide personally where you
think, is that a reasonable

1181
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,600
question to ask?
Do I really need to know this?

1182
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,640
Like, is it a deal breaker?
Because if it's a deal breaker

1183
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,680
and it makes them not want to
hire you because you asked it,

1184
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,320
well, it's a deal breaker.
So you don't want to work.

1185
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,320
The deal is broke, right?
So you need to think where that

1186
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:19,520
line is for you.
Because that's true.

1187
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,480
There might be certain things
where like, oh, ideally that,

1188
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,120
but you know what?
I just want to get my foot in

1189
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,880
the door in general.
I see all these pros and cons.

1190
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,960
You're never going to find a
school with 100% pros.

1191
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,400
No, of course, never ever going
to happen.

1192
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,880
So yeah, but there is a fine
line I think between again, just

1193
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,360
of just being a little bit, I
don't know, just not painting

1194
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,440
yourself in the best light.
Even even if some of these

1195
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,560
questions are good, it might if
someone asked 5 questions in a

1196
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,960
row and the first one was, do do
we have to, do you have to mark

1197
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,680
much here?
And, and the next one is, is all

1198
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:44,840
the planning provided for us?
And then and the next one.

1199
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,840
And it's all questions like that
that, like you said, make be

1200
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,120
sensible, make you sound like
you just don't want to do any

1201
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:50,960
work, even though they're
probably realistically just

1202
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,040
reasonable questions as well.
Last five in a row, I can

1203
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,080
understand why some leaders
might be a bit like just a bit

1204
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,880
just about your personality,
just thinking why are they

1205
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,280
obsessed with like these things
and just just like, OK, like you

1206
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,000
don't seem like a good person to
have.

1207
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,200
I don't know.
That's true.

1208
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:06,560
It's true.
You have to balance what your

1209
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,760
perception is, what you actually
are and what you need to know

1210
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,760
before going in for a while.
Because the amount of people I

1211
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,480
hear about who get a job and
they go in and it's very

1212
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:17,640
different to what they thought
it would be.

1213
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,840
That's what I would how I'd
finish off answering this

1214
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,480
question is like no matter what
you do, it will still have

1215
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,360
differences when it comes to
getting into the school.

1216
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,200
Yeah, right, Dylan.
I think that's it.

1217
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,120
We've run out of time.
We've had some great questions

1218
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:32,640
today.
Continue to write these

1219
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,080
questions in.
Don't forget to share the it's.

1220
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,680
Not that easy.
Is it doing to sign?

1221
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:38,080
Up you will normally do this
you.

1222
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,800
Got thrown over to you I.
Wanted to say it's like and

1223
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,920
subscribe but it's not YouTube.
So it is on YouTube.

1224
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,680
It's YouTube as well.
So you've not really talking

1225
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,040
about.
Really messing this up again

1226
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,840
guys take over despite.
This absolute car crash of the

1227
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,360
ending of the of the episode.
Please do leave your review

1228
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,520
wherever you get your podcasts,
send it to someone who might

1229
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,760
find it useful.
And as always, my the last

1230
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,880
question, Hayden, anything to
say before we finish?

1231
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:58,880
I just.
Want to say you're really good

1232
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,160
at doing the end of the podcast?
Please can use it every single

1233
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:02,440
time.
See you guys next time.