Ep 139: Answering Your Questions: Male Role Models, Wellbeing Initiatives & Fidget Toy

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of T Sleep

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name's

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Hayden.
And you know what it is?

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It's Wednesday.
That means it's question and

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answer day.
Hayden, where do you think we

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got every single one of these
questions from this week?

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Oh Dylan, it's not from our
WhatsApp.

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Community here WhatsApp get me
an AT group which you can join

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down in the description to this
episode wherever you're watching

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listening whatever it might be
you might be on Spotify Apple

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podcast, YouTube.
Do you know what the great thing

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is about wherever they are?
Hayden?

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Tell me.
They can like it, they can

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subscribe, they can leave us a
rating.

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Why not?
It really helps us out.

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But I was going to also put a
call out on our Instagram at TTP

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podcast, which you can follow
now. 4 questions.

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And I gave the link to our
WhatsApp group first, obviously.

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And there were so many good
questions that I thought, do you

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know what?
It's still a WhatsApp group

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special today.
Wow, that's lovely.

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All of these questions are from
our lovely Whatsappers.

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Let's get straight into it.
Hey Dem, do boys need more male

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teachers in primary schools or
is gender irrelevant to being a

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good role model?
Oh good question.

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My gut feeling is I think it is
good to have.

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I didn't.
I don't think gender is

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irrelevant.
I don't think it is irrelevant.

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I don't think it may be as
important as some people like to

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say it is, but it's not
irrelevant.

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I think some boys, some girls
will just gel based on lots of

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factors, will gel better with a
male role model and some people

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will gel better with a female
role model.

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So obviously it just makes sense
to me where it's like, well,

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obviously let's let's just have
representation of both in the

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school as much as possible.
So, yeah, when it is

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disproportionately, like hugely
disproportionately in favour of

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women in school and there's not
as many males, I do think it

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obviously makes sense to be
like, Oh yeah, it would be nice

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to have some more men in
schools.

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Like, I don't think that's a, it
sounds like it should be a

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controversial thing to say for
some reason in my head.

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Do you know what I mean?
Like, I feel like I, oh, can't

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say that for some reason, but I
don't know.

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I think it's just a bit of
common sense, isn't it?

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Obviously it's good to have a
mixture.

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Is that am I right?
Yeah, it was just very long way

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of saying yes.
Yeah, because do you not, do you

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not feel like that, though?
What do you mean?

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I don't know what it is.
It's just something about that,

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that what that feels like.
Oh, we gotta be really careful

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of your opinion on that.
You gotta be careful whether you

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think you should have, whether
you can say, Oh yeah, more men

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in schools.
Brill.

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It just.
Yeah, of course I get it.

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It just winds me up that there's
people out there who've made the

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conversation feel that way like
it does.

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Yeah, I know, I know.
And it's fine.

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And you, you, it's coming from a
good place most of the time

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where people don't want to say
the wrong thing because they

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just don't offend someone, etc.
But But yeah, we can just talk

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about it though.
Like, clearly is a good thing to

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have more about male role models
in school, obviously.

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Like, do we agree that
representation ever is

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important?
Does that mean you hate women?

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Yeah.
No, not yeah.

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It just winds me up.
Of course not, obviously.

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And more women teach, and that's
fine.

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The percentage of of male
teachers is much lower than

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female.
I'm not saying we should strive

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for 5050.
I think that's just insane.

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Like, no, of course not.
But the more the better,

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obviously.
And almost in any walk of life

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that you can think of about
representation, it's good for

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children to be exposed to
different types of people.

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Yeah, clearly.
And it's not.

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Yeah.
Like, we talked about it at the

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end of last week's Q&A episode
about parents wanting to take

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children out of certain lessons.
They don't want them to see

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certain things.
There is just a line, though,

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where it's like, OK, but it is
just a, a more wholesome round

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of experience just to get, you
know, ideas from everyone.

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And specifically thinking about
male teachers, I suppose we're

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in the position where we are
male teachers and we worked in a

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primary school where the
percentage of male teachers is

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even lower.
And yeah, I mean, there's two

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sides to this.
I absolutely didn't mind that

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role of oh, it's the boy
teacher, which some of the young

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kids would say, oh, I can't wait
to have a boy teacher.

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I've never had a boy teacher
before and it can be quite

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endearing and nice and lovely.
But there were points where I

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just thought to myself, you are
kind of undermining every other

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teacher in the school who's
female though, because I felt

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like a lot of the time I was put
on a pedestal simply for being

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male.
And that's where I get, that's

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where this question to me is
just a bit like, I get what you

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mean when you're like, oh, I
can't say certain things.

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Well, of course you can.
Because what it is, is basically

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is we're, we're putting, you
know, male teachers on this like

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we need them desperately.
They're our saviours to come in

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and save primary school.
No, of course not.

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Yeah, you can have a primary
school with 0 male teachers and

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it'd be a fantastic.
Primary.

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It feels like it's implying that
that by being a male teacher is

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better than being a female
teacher, even though that's not

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what most people mean.
But it feels a bit like that.

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Yeah, sure.
When people say, oh, we need

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men, we need you said we're.
Not saying only men, but yeah.

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We need men in school to save
schools.

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What?
What?

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Because women aren't doing a
good job?

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Good enough job.
That's what it feels like.

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But no one, I hope no one means
that, because I certainly don't

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mean that.
And I think it's just good.

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It is just a good thing to have
more male role models in school.

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I don't know about you, but
again, sometimes when I, you

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know, in my years of teaching
and being that person, I, I was

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told a lot by people, oh, this
young boy doesn't have a male

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role model in his life.
And you, you are that for him.

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Thank you.
And there's really is two sides

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to that, because one side, the
automatic side is like, Ah,

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that's really nice.
I, I love that.

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I I like that I can be that
person showing them how a man

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can be emotional at certain
things, can be respectful, can

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be, you know, the the way you
want people to act in society,

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not necessarily just what they
do scrolling on the algorithm

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and saying what a man should be
alpha male.

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And if they're only getting
that.

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Yeah.
And then not being exposed to

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men in different situations,
like being their teacher at

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school, like someone who can
teach them manners and courtesy

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and being polite, et cetera.
And oh, that's passion and

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empathy.
Exactly that.

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That's what a man can be.
I think that's great.

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And but the flip side was always
like, I felt like, but I am just

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your teacher.
And you could have got a female

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teacher this year and done just
as good and been fine.

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Like it is.
It is like almost separate to

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me.
It's like, clearly the quality

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of teaching has nothing to do
with whether you're a man or

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woman or whatever it might be.
It's down to you personal,

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personally.
And yeah, I felt the flip side,

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which was I talked about the
being put in a pedestal as a

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male teacher sometimes.
I also sometimes felt like there

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was a bit of resentment from
some staff if I did something

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well and it was or, you know,
brought up an idea in a staff

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meeting that was good.
Right, because I was because it

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was good.
And then people would just be

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undermine it slightly and be
like, well, of course you listen

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to him.
He's he's it's the male voice.

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And it's gonna be I'm like, OK,
actually it was just a good

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idea.
And if you said it would still

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would have been a good idea, it
was actually nothing to do with

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my gender.
Yeah, I know what you mean.

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Yeah.
So, you know, it's, it's give

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and take, I think.
It's a complex.

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Subject to answer the To answer
the question would it be at a

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good thing if the split was just
closer to 5050?

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Probably.
Does it really matter?

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Can't.
So at the end of this, is gender

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irrelevant to being a good role
model?

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Some of my favourite teachers
ever and people who inspired me

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were women.
Absolutely.

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It didn't matter if they were
male or female, it mattered.

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They were a good person, made me
feel a certain way and I saw how

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they treated other people and
got on and I thought, that's

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nice, I want to do that.
And it's just a shame when it's

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like, but you didn't have that
specific genitalia, how can I

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possibly respect or adore you or
think you're right?

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Yeah.
No, I, I, I just think there's a

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place for it.
It's not necessarily the be all

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and end all.
Yeah, I agree.

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Yeah, good question.
Yeah, really good question.

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What are your thoughts on the
use of alternative classroom

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seating and fidget toys?
How do you go about implementing

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some of these strategies in your
classroom?

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Fidget toys.
I want to start there.

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Never.
I was never a huge fan of them,

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but I never really had many
children that needed to use

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fidget toys.
I don't have a huge amount of

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experience with it.
Alternative seating however,

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what?
What do you mean by that?

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What does that alternative
seating even mean?

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Well, there's a lot of schools I
know I've heard of and have

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teachers spoken to me about how
it's like flexi seating.

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Do you know it traditionally
it's like desks and chairs sat

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there.
Do you work?

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Whereas it might be like the
children choose where they sit.

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There can be some bean bags in
that corner where they do their

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work.
There might be some high chairs

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there that are that are taller
for them, just different types

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of city.
You can stand up and do your

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work just like a policy, which
is basically like, yeah, it's OK

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to sit and do what you want in
terms of how comfortable you

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are.
We still crack on with the work,

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etcetera.
I think in an ideological sense,

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it makes a lot of sense to do
something like that.

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Why would we not want people
feeling comfortable when they

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come to school?
It kind of reminds me of like

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the whole argument around
uniform though, where I'm like,

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obviously it's nicer, just about
to wear your own comfy clothes,

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but we still have uniform
policy.

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I don't know if it's, I don't
know if there's enough link

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between that where I'm like, I
still think uniform's better

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though.
Do I think that?

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Yeah, it's a lovely thing to be
comfy like you are at your home.

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You're nice and comfy.
You sit where you want, but it

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is school and there's 32 of you
and we do need to have some sort

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of like control and authority in
the classroom and it needs to

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be, you know, the learning needs
to take to take place and this

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allows it to happen.
So I don't know where the line

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is for me.
I'm not.

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Yeah, but why does it have to be
that just because you have a

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different seating thing, the
learning can't happen?

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Are you just saying it's easier
or what?

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I don't know, I just think maybe
the line because we we know this

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is definitely a thing, right?
Kids behave differently at home

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to to what they do at school.
It is just a thing the amount of

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parents, even as I've had where
parents say, oh, they're really

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good in schools, they're not at
home.

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So, yeah, because it's a
comfortable place.

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The more we make school like the
comfortable place, maybe there's

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an argument for the more they.
Well, this is controversial.

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I know it's controversial.
I'm just trying to think I'm

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trying to play devil's advocate
because I know what the answer

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00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,240
No, no, no, no, no.
Don't play devs.

227
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,520
Tell me what you think.
Yeah, this is me exploring my

228
00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,240
brain right now, but I think
there's probably a line

229
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:06,320
somewhere, is what I'm trying to
say.

230
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,920
Maybe it's a little bit more
lenient than you need to have

231
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,960
rows of desks and everyone sat
there and you sit there all year

232
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,600
and you can never move.
If you hate your partner, get

233
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,520
over it.
Yeah, but no, that's not what

234
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:16,880
people are saying.
It's just think about the way

235
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,200
that it's implemented now is not
flexible seating still.

236
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,320
Obviously teachers are going to
move staff and move people if

237
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,040
they need to be moved and stuff.
It's not draconian.

238
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,800
It's the way it is now or more
flexible.

239
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,120
Like do you just think that move
is just genuinely a bad idea?

240
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,080
Not generally a bad idea.
I think there's just going too

241
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:32,680
far is what I'm trying to say.
I mean, there's probably a line

242
00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:33,880
where you can go a bit more
flexible.

243
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:35,680
I think if all the kids are on
bean bags and they can sit where

244
00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:37,440
they want every day, honestly,
it would, it would actually just

245
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,440
be horrendous.
Yeah, realistically, there's a

246
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,000
reason I have a seating plan and
I've always stuck to that in my

247
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,480
career.
It's because some children, if

248
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,280
you let them sit where they
want, they will sit with their

249
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,200
mates and do absolutely nothing
but mess around.

250
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:48,400
Yeah, like that is just true.
Yeah.

251
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,400
And that will obviously happen
the more flexible you get.

252
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,040
So there's got to be somewhere
where you go, OK, this is, it's

253
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,760
nice that you feel comfortable
and sit where you want, but

254
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,000
you're actually not learning
anything now.

255
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,520
So do you think that in the same
way we obviously don't do the

256
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,560
draconian sit in rows, you can't
move all year.

257
00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:02,200
And that's the.
Well, obviously we still have

258
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,680
that, but there's a bit of
nuance there.

259
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:05,280
We move some people, we tell
them where to sit.

260
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:06,400
We let some people sit where
they want.

261
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,720
Can flexible sitting not have
that same?

262
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,640
Movement where you're saying no
it would just be outrageous.

263
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,520
It's just people sit at one
that'll obviously be bad.

264
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:15,480
OK cool have flexible seating
then.

265
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,440
But the odd child is just saying
well you need to sit over here

266
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,200
or away from this person.
Like are there accommodations

267
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,000
you can put in place in the same
way we do now to make flexible

268
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,160
seating work and get an overall
better outcome?

269
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:28,720
I think it potentially isolates
kids more.

270
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,720
I think when you've got a
straight seating plan and it's

271
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,440
just no one has a choice of
where they sit.

272
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,200
Everyone sits here.
The kids that wouldn't have been

273
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,520
silly anyway are still sat where
you tell them to sit them.

274
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,440
And the kids that maybe would
have been silly are still SAT

275
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,040
where you tell them to sit there
and there's no, no one sat there

276
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,040
thinking, oh, the teacher's just
picking on me, which is making

277
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,640
me sit there.
Whereas when you open it up

278
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,000
more, there is more of a chance
that you just completely isolate

279
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,560
kids where it's like you're the
naughty kid.

280
00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:51,760
And I'm making it extremely
aware to you every point.

281
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,160
Because all of these lovely
things I give to the class

282
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:54,200
because there's complete
freedom.

283
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:55,920
You can't have any of them now.
And we all know that.

284
00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,440
Like I do think it opens up that
it is more complex.

285
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,160
Probably I'm just like realising
as I talk about it, there's

286
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,480
probably a lot of things to
consider.

287
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,640
Of course, I think there are a
lot of examples of it really

288
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,000
working in some schools and
somewhere it doesn't work.

289
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,920
And I can imagine teachers,
someone's printing their hair

290
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:11,840
outgoing.
Oh my gosh, the last thing I

291
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,760
need halfway through this year
is for you to tell me a child

292
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:14,920
can sit in a spinny chair right
now.

293
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:16,520
But I just don't need that right
now.

294
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,240
Please just don't add that to my
plate.

295
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:19,760
Let's just be realistic for a
second.

296
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,920
I think there are ways to
accommodate children with needs

297
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,200
very different to just going
down this road of potentially

298
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,360
just mayhem in a seating plan.
I want to go back to the fidget

299
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,280
stuff for a second because I
think most teachers agree that

300
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,120
there are some cases where some
form of fidget toy can help some

301
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,520
children to concentrate more and
therefore get more out of them

302
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,840
and and make learning a better
experience for the children.

303
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,720
But I've got to be really
honest, having done just about

304
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,080
10 years, not quite 10 years as
you like to remind me, in the

305
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,160
classroom, it felt like more
often than not, it was.

306
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,640
It added a distraction.
More often than not, them having

307
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,080
a bit of blue tack to play with
in their fingers, or a little

308
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,160
spinny thing or a little clicky
thing in their hand.

309
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,760
I'm not saying all the time it
shouldn't, I'm not saying it

310
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,240
shouldn't exist, but it felt
like quite often it became

311
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,200
something for them to focus on
more and they got less out of my

312
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:11,760
lesson as a result.
Definitely, yeah.

313
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,760
Again, it's one of those things
where I feel like, oh, should I

314
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,280
say that?
But realistically, I.

315
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,600
Wonder at what point in this
podcast you'll just say what you

316
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,480
think.
Oh, I'm sorry guys.

317
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,560
I didn't mean to offend.
You just tell me what you.

318
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:23,920
Think Yeah, tell me what you
think.

319
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,520
Here's what I think 95% of the
time that that system of, you

320
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,760
know, fidget toys or having
something is completely abused

321
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,800
by, by families who like it
absolutely does not need it.

322
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,640
Well, this is this is the issue
I I had a few times over my

323
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,800
career, which was when someone
maybe got something they

324
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,560
genuinely needed and was quite
helpful for them.

325
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,840
Then six other children saw that
and said, well, why have I got

326
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,720
to put it away?
That person's playing with blue

327
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,680
tack in the hands.
And I'm like, what do you say to

328
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:49,400
that kid?
Oh, yes, sorry.

329
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,520
They've got a educational health
and care plan.

330
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:52,960
And the professional said
they've got to do that to

331
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,200
concentrate.
Of course, I'm not going to say

332
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:55,000
that to a child.
Yeah.

333
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:56,680
Yeah.
But a child doesn't understand

334
00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:57,760
that that child's doing
something.

335
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,520
I'm not sure we have to teach
children that people get

336
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,120
different things.
I get that.

337
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,520
Yeah, there's, there's, there's
that idea of I, I need to

338
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:05,720
support children in different
ways.

339
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,240
And, and we're always kind of
dodging those minds in the

340
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,360
classroom when we give a child a
sheet with support and the child

341
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:12,680
next to them a sheet without
support.

342
00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:14,600
And they obviously know.
They're getting the easier one.

343
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,000
Exactly.
And it's wrong, isn't it?

344
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,720
So you don't, you don't, yeah,
you don't want to have those

345
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,040
conversations, but you're like,
well, I know why, but yeah.

346
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,200
But I don't want to say because
that child can't possibly do

347
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,720
that unless I give them some,
some coded questions because

348
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,480
it's embarrassing for them.
Yeah, let's say can't do it in

349
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:28,920
front of everyone like.
Right, so.

350
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,960
What ends up with the fidget
toys I find a lot of the time is

351
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,760
that it's easier to then say,
yeah, OK, sure, OK, your parents

352
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,400
moaned that someone else in the
class has got it.

353
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,680
They've said it'll help you
fine.

354
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:41,360
You can have, you can have the
blue tack as well.

355
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,480
And it's like, Oh my God, all
that happens now is I'm talking

356
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,600
at the front about
parallelograms and they're

357
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,040
they're string of blue tack in
front of them.

358
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,440
Trying to see how far they can
get it for us now.

359
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,400
Even more distracted than they
ever were before.

360
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:51,320
Exactly.
Yeah.

361
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,640
So it becomes frustrating
because, and I think it's even

362
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,360
more frustrating for me because
I absolutely can see how it

363
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,840
would be helpful for some
children, but it's just not

364
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,720
helpful for.
Everyone, I I find that there's

365
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,360
been loads of situations in the
past where and you have to be

366
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,320
respectful in this situation,
there's not much you can do.

367
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,640
But where a parent will say, my
child behaves in X way at home.

368
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,240
And I've noticed this.
Therefore at school they need

369
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,680
this thing.
And like I established already,

370
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,320
children behave so differently.
A lot of children behave so

371
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,120
differently at home than they do
to school.

372
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,960
So when they see home
behaviours, they're like, Oh

373
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,200
yeah, like he's really fidgety.
He can't sit at the dinner table

374
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,080
without moving his legs.
So it must be a problem in

375
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,840
school.
And I'm thinking this kid

376
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,040
couldn't be more like polite in
class and better behaved and

377
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,920
more on like focused.
And they come in with something

378
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,400
like a fidget toy or like a I've
seen like like chair bands.

379
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,120
You can get like an elastic band
that goes across the chair legs.

380
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,640
And I remember being given one
of those once and they said, oh,

381
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,600
you can use this with my child.
And I remember obviously being

382
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,560
polite and I understood their
reasoning.

383
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,240
But in my head, I was thinking
your child just doesn't need

384
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,120
this because they, because they
don't behave like what you're

385
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,120
describing.
I believe you.

386
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,360
They behave like this at home,
but they do not do that at

387
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,120
school.
And all it will do is make other

388
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:57,920
kids be like, why has he got
that?

389
00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,920
Yeah, why has he got that on his
chair?

390
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:02,240
Exactly?
Well, and again, I'm not.

391
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:03,920
What do you say?
Because hang on, kids, let's

392
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,560
stop the lesson.
What happened was the parents,

393
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,520
you know, you just start doing
all this explanation.

394
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,200
I just find it awkward and I
never really know what the right

395
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:11,440
thing.
Do You stand your ground as a

396
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,320
professional and say, well,
actually I appreciate this is

397
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:14,960
happening at home, but this
isn't happening at school, so

398
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,360
I'm not going to?
Use it No.

399
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,240
You say you're the parents, so I
kind of got to do what you.

400
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,520
I think it's just a mixture of
both and that's where really

401
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,560
good leaders that we've worked
with in the past are very good

402
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,160
at that kind of thing where I
think, you know, when you've got

403
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,200
that experience and that know
how and you've seen it all

404
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,440
before, you learn what to say
and you can say, OK, thank you,

405
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,320
I appreciate that.
That's something that we'll keep

406
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,760
an eye on and we'll look at and
then come and talk to the

407
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,040
teacher about it.
And maybe, you know, I've had

408
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,120
lots of conversations with
leaders in the past where

409
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,120
they've said, what's this child
like in class?

410
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,600
They, you know, do they pay
attention?

411
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,040
They lose focus easily.
I've filled out many forms for

412
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,800
people who've had, you know,
diagnosis, etcetera, and all you

413
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,520
can do is just tell the truth.
And if in the class they don't

414
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,960
need it, that information goes
back to the leader, they talk to

415
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,360
the parent, and you come to a
conclusion.

416
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,440
And I just think, yeah, if
constantly feeling undermined as

417
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,000
a professional, when you say
come, I know for a fact that

418
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,360
this is having a detrimental
effect, maybe try it for a week

419
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,160
and I'll tell you, well, they
produced less work.

420
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,400
Yeah, So we've tried it for a
week now.

421
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:10,920
They literally produce less
work.

422
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,280
I had to remind them multiple
times to pay attention, which I

423
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,880
didn't have to do before.
It's created more problems than

424
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,000
it's solved.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

425
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,760
That should be the end of the
conversation then.

426
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,000
And there's even a circumstance
where it's like it kind of did

427
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,120
solve the the isolated problem.
They shout out all the time in

428
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,280
class.
OK, we give them a fidget toy.

429
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:28,320
Oh, look, they've shout out
less.

430
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,720
They've done absolutely nothing
in their book, though.

431
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,040
They've done no work now because
they were so distracted by this

432
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,200
thing.
It's like, what's better?

433
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,040
I'll take the shouting out, but
they do some work.

434
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:35,960
But I don't know.
Right.

435
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,840
And I think it's just a, it's
just a constant rolling kind of,

436
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,680
you know, reflect on what's
happening case by case.

437
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:42,840
And I think that's what it's got
to be.

438
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,560
And then so when someone said,
what do you think about fidget

439
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,520
toys?
I'm like, honestly, that's like

440
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,320
saying what do you think about
handwriting?

441
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,840
I'm like, yeah, some some
children struggle with it.

442
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,360
Some children don't handwriting
pen grips on their pencils.

443
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,040
I'm not going to give it to
everyone, but let some kids.

444
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,480
Ryan Windings.
Windings, you know the the I

445
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,200
think it's.
Isn't it called something

446
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,160
different?
Is it Wingdings?

447
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,000
I don't know.
It's the one that's just

448
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:05,560
symbols, basically.
Exactly.

449
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,359
Doesn't need handwriting.
Writing hieroglyphics.

450
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,200
They're all good.
Really inspired by a different

451
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,560
topic two years ago.
We've been doing Hierogly ever

452
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,960
since.
Right, next question when it

453
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,040
comes to looking at primary, by
the way, we got all these from

454
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,119
WhatsApp just so you can join
the WhatsApp down.

455
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:20,119
Below sorry, how do you join
are?

456
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:21,760
You just click on the link down
below, it joins you.

457
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,280
Is it after reviewing or not?
Before or after either review

458
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:25,800
Reviews.
We know the numbers of people

459
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,160
listening are very different
number of views.

460
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:28,400
We got, we got it.
We got review.

461
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:32,720
Next question, When it comes to
looking at primary schools for

462
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,480
your own children, what do you
think would be your top three

463
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,320
things to look out for?
They can be school must haves or

464
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,320
must nots, if that makes sense.
I'm intrigued what you'd look

465
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,600
out for after years in the
profession.

466
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,240
That's such a good question
because it is a different

467
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:47,520
insight, isn't it?
Completely teaching.

468
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,120
I think I'd look for something
very different now.

469
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,840
I want you to start then.
No, Well, I think I I would be

470
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,080
looking very holistically
straight away because having

471
00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:00,160
worked in schools, it's more
about the experience my child

472
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,880
will have going to that school
genuinely.

473
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:04,400
So I don't think what here's OK,
here's what I'll say straight

474
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,720
away.
Don't read too much into the

475
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,480
offset one word gradings.
Just don't read too much into it

476
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,800
because having been on the other
side and seeing what children

477
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,760
get, it's not always a simple
case of outstanding is better

478
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,480
than good.
It genuinely isn't.

479
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,240
There are outstanding schools
out there which are genuinely

480
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,000
not better than some good
schools out there.

481
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,480
Like just the nature of it and
we've.

482
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,160
Just played the game.
Better they've played the game,

483
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,000
better they've jumped through
hoops bad they've looked better

484
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,640
on the day, great.
But like in terms of the

485
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,360
experience your child has.
So when if I was looking at

486
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:38,080
scores for my child, I would
genuinely, and this sounds so

487
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,640
vague, but the ethos and vibe of
a school when you walk into it,

488
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,200
how the adults talk to each
other, like how if you're being

489
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,320
shown around by the deputy head
teacher or the head teacher, do

490
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,360
they interact with the office
staff when they walk past?

491
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,360
Is there very clearly a
relationship there, which is

492
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:57,360
something you can't fake?
When they go through the school

493
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:00,320
and go through the classes,
maybe you're seeing teachers,

494
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,520
you know, teaching their class
with the head teacher.

495
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,120
Does the teacher seem to seize
up, feel uncomfortable, feel

496
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:06,960
strange at the sight of their
teacher?

497
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,600
Or does the head teacher just
give a smile and nod and the

498
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,080
teacher's happy and cracks on
small things like that?

499
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,640
I, I think now when I'm walking
around the school, I'd be like,

500
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,960
OK, this is a good ethos here in
terms of the staff and that that

501
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,680
kind of links into working at
the school as well.

502
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,840
But when I'm thinking of my son,
I just know for a fact that if

503
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,800
that staff team are getting on
better, there's a there's a

504
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,120
culture of good well-being,
happiness from the staff getting

505
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:32,760
on as humans that very, very
often translates then to the

506
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,560
children itself.
Yeah, I, I don't think that's

507
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:35,560
fair.
You said that was vague.

508
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:37,520
That's by far my number one as
well.

509
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,040
Like app is like leagues above.
And there's loads of other

510
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:41,760
things where I'm like toying
between what could be two and

511
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:42,840
three of like 5 different
things.

512
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,320
But that one's like one, that
one's out of the way.

513
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,000
That's just obviously that's the
first thing that is your read

514
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,640
roundabout.
If that's not right, yeah, yeah.

515
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,320
About the last week.
Well, I want to just clarify as

516
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:51,880
well.
I do mean, I, I mean within the

517
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,880
staff.
And then that kind of permeates

518
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,360
to I also mean how the children
are.

519
00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:57,120
Yeah.
Just the ethos.

520
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:58,120
The ethos.
Yeah.

521
00:19:58,120 --> 00:19:59,240
I mean, that's why I thought it
was vague.

522
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,880
But it's everything.
It's it's things like, it's

523
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,160
small things, like when children
open the door for you when

524
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,080
you're a stranger.
And it's just, I know what goes

525
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,600
into embedding that culture in a
school.

526
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:10,920
And it's not something you can
fake.

527
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:11,280
Yeah.
Yeah.

528
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,560
And it's something, well, it's
this idea of service to other

529
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,200
people, kindness to other
people.

530
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,480
When you speak to the children
in the classroom, do they talk

531
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:19,640
glowingly about what they're
doing?

532
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,400
Yeah, exactly.
It's things that it's like, do

533
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,840
the kids want to be in this
building?

534
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,920
And it's like it's so far
outweighs anything academic.

535
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:27,920
I think people who aren't
teachers will listen to this

536
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,360
maybe, and be like, oh, are they
going to say the SAT scores,

537
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:31,480
aren't they?
And they're going to say that

538
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,120
the progress that's missed, I
honestly couldn't care less.

539
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,000
I wouldn't.
I honestly couldn't care less

540
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,160
because I know that if my
child's happy and secure and

541
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,400
getting the curriculum, if they
fall behind in anything, I'm in

542
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,280
a privileged position where I
can just bump them up.

543
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,440
That's.
True that is different for you,

544
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,760
isn't it as a teacher yeah, your
first point reminds me.

545
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:49,800
Have you ever seen it went
viral?

546
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,560
There's like an American teacher
on TikTok and Instagram and

547
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,000
there's just like videos from
his like they have like camera.

548
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,840
I don't think we have UK like
cameras in schools, but they

549
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,360
have obviously cameras in the
corridors and stuff.

550
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,120
And it's just like you can just
see how much he is loved at the

551
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:02,240
school and he goes around the
corridor.

552
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,280
He'll just like high 5 kids and
like welcome them in.

553
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,640
And that like that to me is like
the embodiment of like a really

554
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,400
nice ethos.
If I could pick up a vibe of

555
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,200
that in the school, I'd be like,
OK, this is a great place to be

556
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,520
because I just want my kid to be
happy.

557
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,560
We know that happy kids make the
most progress when they want to

558
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,360
be at school.
Like that's like half the

559
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:18,840
battle.
So that that's definitely that's

560
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,560
definitely my number one.
My #2 probably would be about

561
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,240
and I know this isn't like
massively in control of the

562
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,280
school, but I would still be
looking at it and thinking about

563
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,480
it.
It's just the resources

564
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,120
available.
I'd just be looking around the

565
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:31,120
school thinking like what do
they have?

566
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:33,640
What's the library like?
What, what tech do they have?

567
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,040
That's.
Such a good one, the library.

568
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,520
Do they have how big is the
playground?

569
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,080
What's the field like?
Honestly, just stuff like that.

570
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,320
That's such a good point because
it's like, I know, I know that

571
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:41,760
the school can't just make that
feel bigger.

572
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,040
But if I'm, if I've got schools
to choose from, I'm obviously

573
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,240
going to be thinking about those
things.

574
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,240
I mean, I won't, you know, my
kids were going to like this

575
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,280
school.
So just the physic like the

576
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,040
physical resources and you know
what the budget's been spent on

577
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,600
would make a bit of a
difference.

578
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,240
Well, there's literally, so
where we live, there are local

579
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,240
schools obviously in our area.
And when we think about our

580
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,600
children going to school,
honestly one thing I think about

581
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,640
is that that I didn't really
think about that in terms of

582
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,760
there's a school near us which
opens up onto a massive field.

583
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,320
It's like a public field.
So it's not even anything to do

584
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,560
with the school, but there's
this huge field on the other

585
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,400
side of the road where I've seen
before when I've been walking

586
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,440
around down there around school
time with Rory going for a walk,

587
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,480
hundreds of kids come out and
just play and I'm like, oh,

588
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,360
that's a mate.
That's lovely.

589
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:27,280
Imagine your, your child
finishing school and be like,

590
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:28,760
yeah, 20 minutes, have a little
play.

591
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,120
And there is another school
which is probably just as good

592
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,960
academically wise, which is
about 5 minutes, honestly down

593
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,560
the road.
But it's in the middle of a

594
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,480
built up area where they don't
have that.

595
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,360
And I'm just like straight away,
genuinely, I'm like, well,

596
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,560
that's better.
And it's nothing to do with,

597
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,440
like you said, it's got nothing
to do with the academics or even

598
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,040
the teaching.
But you're so right.

599
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,640
If you think back to when you
were in school and when I was in

600
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,720
school, I absolutely loved it.
And it was, it was, it was about

601
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,840
the experiences and the people.
And I think, yeah, they're,

602
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:57,840
they're the two main things.
Yeah.

603
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,720
Some not really nice.
Definitely my top 2, but if we

604
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,400
need a third one, I think this
way might be a little bit

605
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,360
different.
Potentially my third one would

606
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,520
be database and it wouldn't be
Ofsted.

607
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,000
I wouldn't be.
I actually don't think I'd look

608
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,280
like Ofsted wouldn't be in my
top three.

609
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,240
I wouldn't even look at the
report.

610
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,280
I probably would look at the
report.

611
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,240
If you gave me a top ten, it'd
probably be in there.

612
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,400
I'd.
Look, and I'm sure you'd read

613
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,360
the report of you're sending
your.

614
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:17,160
School, that's what I'm saying.
You've sent my school to that

615
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,080
kid.
Yeah, I would what I'm trying to

616
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,160
say is I would read the report,
sure, but it is absolutely

617
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,520
nowhere near my top three.
So my third thing is, is I don't

618
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,080
know how I do it, but some just
something to get an

619
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,880
understanding of like what what
progress the kids that do

620
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,200
actually make.
I feel like it would be

621
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,200
responsible for me to Yeah, to
not just at least look at it and

622
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,280
just think, OK, is there is
there good teaching here though?

623
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,800
I'm sure there is good teaching,
but is there?

624
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,760
Are they you do they make good
progress?

625
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,320
You judge good teaching.
On that, not like entirely, not

626
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,080
entirely, but just a little.
If if one school, they both look

627
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,360
the same.
My first two points I'm like,

628
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,160
wow, they're really even right.
And then one school and then the

629
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,880
same sort of catchment when you
know, because it would

630
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,240
realistically there's not a huge
circumference, is there of like

631
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,560
where you can go to school.
Yeah, it's quite.

632
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,640
You got to choose probably
between 3 or 4.

633
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,080
We're talking primary.
Schools, primary schools, right?

634
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,000
And it's roughly in the same
catchment because we're talking

635
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,640
minutes away from each other,
especially where we live.

636
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,120
And I'm like, if I'm looking at
one of them and and I don't know

637
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:08,240
the data in progress through the
years, or maybe even the SAT

638
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,560
data at the end of key stage
one, key stage 2 is like

639
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,000
significantly lower than the
other one.

640
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,240
It would, I would just be
thinking, OK, why is that then?

641
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,160
And and it wouldn't make me
write off.

642
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,400
I would just want to know why.
Yeah, sure.

643
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,480
Because there's obviously
reasons like because they cheat

644
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,360
in the SAT data.
Yeah, maybe, Maybe.

645
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,760
But that's my point.
I'm like I, I I've.

646
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,760
This is because I've been in the
school for so long and the

647
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,440
question is embedded in being a
teacher for so long.

648
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,440
I've seen schools that get 90%
combined, which is writing,

649
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,840
reading and maths.
And I'm just like, you're lying,

650
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,400
like that's just not what
happened.

651
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,240
And I suppose, OK, maybe then
when I'm looking at #3 if we're

652
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,680
trying to come out of a combined
three, I'm gonna accept your 3.

653
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,800
But it has to be, again, with
the knowledge of we have taught

654
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,760
in the area for a decade.
We do, we do know what goes on.

655
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,640
We probably know someone
teaching in that school.

656
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,280
I'd be getting that background
as well.

657
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,360
And if you get in that, like if,
if the progress is great and I

658
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:01,120
know people at the school and
they say, Oh yeah, do you know

659
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:02,800
what?
The kids just get a really good

660
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,600
deal here.
That's what I'd be looking for.

661
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,600
I'd be using my contacts
basically my my know my know how

662
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:08,880
of.
You know baby.

663
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,240
It's about who, you know, that's
what I'd be looking for.

664
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,920
But I think it, I think those
maybe are very different.

665
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,440
I'd be very interested to hear
what just a layman says.

666
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,560
Someone on the road, just say,
well, your child's going to a

667
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,400
school.
They might be like, yeah, the

668
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,960
one down the road.
Yeah, that.

669
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,080
Yeah, that's it.
Well, they might be thinking,

670
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,760
yeah, the Ofsted report.
Yeah, we, we do all this and

671
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,480
then we're gonna get one anyway
because it's the closest one.

672
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:27,760
It's like, oh, we didn't have a
choice anyway.

673
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,400
Exactly.
We did get a choice, but I don't

674
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,360
know.
I think 2 holistic ones and one

675
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,400
maybe are just a bit more
learning data-driven, and I

676
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,240
think it's fairly accessible for
top three.

677
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,600
Fairies, fairies, Next question.
You guys are almost a month into

678
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,640
the start of the new school
year, and this is the first

679
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,000
where you're not teaching a
typical teaching post.

680
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,360
How's it all going?
We touched on this last week,

681
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:49,320
but I thought we'd include it
because I think it'd be nice

682
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,680
just to have a bit of a weekly
chat about we aren't in the

683
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,680
classroom doing.
What are we doing with our time?

684
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,880
Yeah, because last week we
mentioned it and then you, we

685
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,240
made us a little joke saying,
yeah, we're just doing just

686
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,840
filming podcasts all week.
Just joking.

687
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,520
And then you went, well, not
though, but I guess we are just

688
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,800
filming podcasts all week kind
of thing.

689
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,880
And I was like, OK, it'd be
good.

690
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,720
Maybe I thought I'd just put it
to you just to talk about like

691
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,280
what we're actually doing.
Like just break it down because.

692
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,760
There's like 3 main things I
look at as and the last one's

693
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,080
quite exciting.
So yeah, OK, let's go through

694
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,920
the three prongs of our life
right now and we'll wish for the

695
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,720
1st 2:00 because you know it.
Number one is the podcast.

696
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,560
We do spend a good amount of
time, but certainly not a week

697
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,480
on the podcast.
No #2 is our tutoring business,

698
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,000
which if you've been listening
for a long time, you'll know

699
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,280
we've had this business for a
long time.

700
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,520
It's what helps us go part time.
We did a whole episode saying

701
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,560
how tutoring helped us go part
time a long time ago.

702
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,080
Go back and check it out.
And that's another big prong to

703
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,400
our life.
But again, we don't spend all

704
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,200
week on that.
A couple of days.

705
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,040
So we've got this kind of
surplus time and we have been

706
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,000
working on secretly.
Secretly we've mentioned it.

707
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:47,720
Muslim.
I'm trying.

708
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,920
To make it, I'm trying to make a
hyper up because I'm better than

709
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,520
it.
So we have been working on

710
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,080
essentially we're both
passionate about maths.

711
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,800
So we have been working on some
essentially some software for

712
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,760
maths.
We want to, we want to make,

713
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,240
we're making something for
schools.

714
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,800
I'm struggling to word this for
some reason.

715
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,440
I'm so like, oh, how do I say it
perfectly?

716
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,240
How do I describe perfectly?
But we are making something for

717
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,800
maths in primary schools, maybe
even secondary schools down the

718
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,720
road, that schools can use to
literally improve the outcomes

719
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,160
of maths in school.
Well, I'm going to literally,

720
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,160
I'm going to a bit more detail
and again, it's something that

721
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,640
as it, as it develops and we'll,
we'll literally get some of you

722
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,480
guys to try out for us and get
your input.

723
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,360
It's, it's going to be something
I found as someone who loves

724
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:26,480
maths and been a math
specialist.

725
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:27,960
You're not a math specialist.
I'm a math specialist.

726
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:30,800
As someone who qualified as a
math specialist on my PGC, did

727
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,160
you all say math specialist?
No, it didn't exist.

728
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,280
No, it's fine.
You're not.

729
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,760
I am and lead maths.
I, I have enjoyed since a new

730
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,800
curriculum in 2014.
There was a big push on mastery,

731
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,360
that big keyword mastery.
And there's lots of stuff out

732
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:46,760
there which kind of led the way.
Like think of the NCTM, those

733
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,040
resources out there, White Rose.
Think of everything, those

734
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,760
resources people, there's so
much great stuff out there, but

735
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,560
it did shift very much towards
we're going to solve problems,

736
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,680
we're going to get better
understanding these intricate

737
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,600
word problems, maybe that multi
step or even just different ways

738
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,680
of showing problems where
there's different tables you've

739
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,960
not seen before.
And and this idea of reasoning

740
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,400
and explaining yourself.
And I think that was a really,

741
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:10,800
really positive move for maths
percent.

742
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,120
It's something you need and it's
actually should be the end goal

743
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:15,960
of maths should be can you solve
a problem?

744
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,400
Because you know, that is how in
real life exactly you're going

745
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,880
to apply it to real life where
you're getting a bus and you

746
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,160
think to yourself, which one
have I got a catch?

747
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,520
Because I've got a bit at a
meeting at 11.

748
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,520
The bus is going to get here.
Then the classic.

749
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,320
You literally see that in SAT
papers, but that's literally.

750
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,400
What you're doing in my level
question?

751
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,040
Exactly.
So it's really, really, really

752
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,160
important.
However, I found, and I'd love

753
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,520
to know what the listeners
think, Hayden and I always said

754
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,080
it felt like fluency.
And honestly, let's narrow it

755
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,240
down even more.
Genuinely.

756
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,400
Arithmetic kind of got put in
the back burner was kind of

757
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,120
something you taught and then
you applied it quite quickly.

758
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,960
And that move and that force of
lots of schools which said, no,

759
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,480
no, every lesson needs problem
solving.

760
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,880
Every, every lesson needs some
kind of reasoning and problem

761
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,760
solving all the time.
And it's particularly problem

762
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,600
solving that I think was
sometimes shoehorned in to say,

763
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,400
yeah, I've done it for that
lesson before the children were

764
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,400
ready.
So a big thing we have always

765
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,880
been passionate about is
teaching the children arithmetic

766
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,280
really, really, really, really
well, getting them solid.

767
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,040
And we got to a point where, you
know, I was in year 4 and you

768
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,440
would get in, in the arithmetic
test end of year 4 out of 40.

769
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,160
The average score was probably
333435.

770
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,680
And that's a coal of 100.
And that's got some children in

771
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,040
there who will never get close
to that.

772
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,040
The vast majority of children
who we taught got really high

773
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,200
scores and arithmetic.
And what that did was it set a

774
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,520
really, really, really solid
foundation for them to be able

775
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,120
to access the reasoning and
problem solving.

776
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,680
I, I keep conflating reasoning
with this, I mean problem

777
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,680
solving to a much better degree.
So we kind of came from it with

778
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,600
this is what we think works,
This is what we think is

779
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,960
important.
And honestly, what we think is

780
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,120
missing from a lot of really
good software and schemes out

781
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,760
there is when you just actually
need to get really good at the

782
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,160
maths first.
Yeah, exactly.

783
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:54,800
That is it is.
I think the foundation is the

784
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,040
best word.
That's the way I see it.

785
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,880
And if I've seen it in my
career, like you said, I've I

786
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,600
have seen that building a
foundation literally allows them

787
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,640
to apply that mouse even better
on top.

788
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,240
But if you don't build a
foundation, it's really hard.

789
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,480
And you're right.
It I remember my reasoning

790
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:10,760
problem solving.
It was like we need to have

791
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,680
problem solving days now.
So well, OK, what?

792
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:13,880
What are they doing problem
solving with?

793
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:15,560
Oh, I don't know.
Yeah, something.

794
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:16,400
Oh, they.
Represent it was really

795
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,880
important that underpins it that
we haven't we've now skipped or

796
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,440
skipped having a lot of skipped
a lot of things I see online

797
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,040
that's like criticisms of
schemes, even really good ones

798
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,720
that I think genuinely are like
10 out of 10.

799
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,520
Maybe they're 9 out of 10.
Because what people are saying

800
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,760
is it's great, but we skipped so
fast past arithmetic that some

801
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,920
of the kids in my class or a lot
of the kids in my class

802
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,280
sometimes are not actually like
properly grasping how to do the

803
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,840
underpinning maths.
And then we're trying to get to

804
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,440
solve problems.
And then what ends up happening

805
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,480
ironically, is they're not
solving problems at all because

806
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,240
to scaffold them solving the
problems, we end up basically

807
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,680
saying, well, they're still
struggling with the maths.

808
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,120
So I'll show them how to solve
the problem.

809
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,960
And then they can just focus on
doing the maths in it.

810
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,600
And it's like, well, it's not
problem solving anymore, is it?

811
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,240
Because it's only problem
solving if they are looking at

812
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,680
something completely unfamiliar
to them and working out in their

813
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,120
head how to go from this is
completely unknown to me to, oh,

814
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,520
this method will get me the
answer.

815
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,000
And if they're not doing that
bit, they're not problem solving

816
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,000
anymore.
So for me and you, it was very

817
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,360
much a case of what can we do
and what can we build for

818
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,560
education that is actually going
to be like hugely impactful,

819
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,960
generally transformative.
I hope, I hope so, you know, and

820
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,520
it and it isn't, it wasn't our
first thought.

821
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,320
It wasn't.
Let's do another bunch of

822
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,120
reasoning and problem solving
like materials down the line.

823
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,600
I'd love to.
Yeah, I think, I think it's

824
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,320
something we will absolutely do.
Exactly.

825
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,520
It was almost certainly.
But at the start I was like,

826
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:34,840
what's the first thing I want to
tackle?

827
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:36,400
And to me, it is arithmetic.
Yeah.

828
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,200
So we are dedicating quite a lot
of our time right now into

829
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,720
building a very, very complex
bit of software that will be

830
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,200
useful for schools in terms of.
Yeah.

831
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,840
And we're working with
mastering, we're working with

832
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,280
some incredibly intelligent
people who we can go in with our

833
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,840
knowledge of teaching and be
like, this is really important.

834
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,280
And they can be like, OK, yeah,
let's do that.

835
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,160
And it's being built.
Let's just build this.

836
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,320
Yeah, it's very exciting.
I mean, one story I had very

837
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,840
quickly, and I think this sums
up the issue that we've got and

838
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,920
right now in the curriculum and
this still happens to this day,

839
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,000
is children will get to maybe
year five, year 6, get some

840
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:10,520
tricky.
We've got to do some problem

841
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:11,880
solving.
Because if you think about,

842
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,320
let's say addition and
subtraction in year 6, you're

843
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,960
not teaching in the method by
the time they get to year 6,

844
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,280
right?
You get the numbers are bigger,

845
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,400
right?
So in terms of the lesson, I

846
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,840
think a lot of additional
subtraction in year 6 will be

847
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,040
applying that to problems.
That's that's what a good lesson

848
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,400
in the upper key stage to me
would look like is all right,

849
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,360
guys, we know column addition
now bit of practise.

850
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:31,880
If you're, if you're stuck, we
should help you.

851
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,280
But most, most kids kind of get
it.

852
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,800
And I've heard a million times
some teachers go, oh, my kids

853
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,720
just can't do bar models and we
can't bar model this, this

854
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,760
problem solving question.
I'm spending so much of my time

855
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,480
teaching them how to bar model
and I want to shake them and say

856
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,080
don't do a bar model.
You don't have to do a bar

857
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,120
model.
Bar models are really nice ways

858
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,320
of representing questions.
But what it is a bar model is a

859
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,920
tool to do problem solving
right?

860
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,960
If you know how it's a bar
model, you read a question and

861
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,640
then if you're proficient in bar
modelling, it's one way to try

862
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,040
and visualise the question to
then be able to solve it, to

863
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,200
then be able to work it out and
do the arithmetic right?

864
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,400
Yeah.
And this we get stuck in this

865
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,800
rut of thinking we have to do
problem solving all the time.

866
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,240
We have to do bar models all the
time.

867
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,240
That's really important.
I'm going to teach you how to

868
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,160
copy my bar off the board.
That is poor practise to me.

869
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,640
Don't be copying the bar off the
board if they're in year 6 and

870
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,200
they can't bar model.
If they can't bar model, you

871
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,240
need to teach them to bar model.
Do that lower down in the.

872
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,480
School has to be lower.
What it has to be is the child

873
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,520
reading the question and then
the learning is working out how

874
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,680
to represent it right.
That's problem solving.

875
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,320
And we don't do it properly
because we are still so obsessed

876
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,760
with OK, yeah, but let's just
get in practising the maths.

877
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,680
That's what we're going to do.
We're going to have the ability

878
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,640
to just practise the maths and
then unlock actual problem

879
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,920
solving after.
We need to rewire how we look at

880
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,760
problem solving because you
think you've summed it up

881
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,680
perfectly.
A lot of what we're doing in

882
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,400
schools is not problem solving.
If we have got a question on the

883
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,320
board and we explain to the
children, well, we take this

884
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:01,760
number.
We take this away because it

885
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,560
says they sold it, and then we
add this number on because it

886
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:05,880
said they had more stock come
in.

887
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,960
If you then if you explain that
and show them how to work it out

888
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,840
and then simply change the
numbers, the children aren't

889
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,440
problem solving.
Yeah, what the children are

890
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:14,840
doing is adding and then
subtracting.

891
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,159
Yeah, because you just told them
it's.

892
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:17,040
Terrific.
Yeah, right.

893
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,480
And so arithmetic's really
important.

894
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,320
We're going to focus on that.
It's a long way of saying it's

895
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,000
very exciting because it's how
we taught and how we saw it was

896
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,040
really effective.
And the reason it's really

897
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,679
exciting is because it then
allows for amazing problem

898
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:32,960
solving.
It's to unlock it so that we

899
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,520
actually also get better at
doing that part of the career

900
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,400
look.
At us getting all passionate.

901
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,440
There's so much more we can
share and I think we should, you

902
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,560
know, we can come back, we can
share, we can share a bit more

903
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,520
of this journey.
But because I've got a lot more

904
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,159
I want to say, but it will take
up this whole episode.

905
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:45,719
So let's move on to another
question.

906
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,120
OK.
We'll share more details in the

907
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,639
future.
Right quick, would you rather?

908
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,199
Would you rather have a policy
that uses detailed triple

909
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:55,679
marking for each lesson but you
have full autonomy over what you

910
00:34:55,679 --> 00:35:00,280
teach, or have all the planning
provided that you have to follow

911
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,400
to the letter but fully
verbalised feedback, no marking

912
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,520
whatsoever?
I hate these questions.

913
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,800
I read this and I thought,
that's a tricky one.

914
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,640
That's a tricky 1.
Then I asked Lauren and she said

915
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,800
easy, yeah, no marking.
Yeah, I was going to say I do

916
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,400
think it's the second one, but
the after about 5 seconds of

917
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,680
thinking, oh, that's nasty.
I was like, one of them is a

918
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,800
they're both horrible.
One of them is a horrendous

919
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,000
amount of workload and one's not
so bad.

920
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,000
So probably the one where all
the planning is done for me and

921
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,600
others.
Yeah, I can give them verbal

922
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,120
feedback.
Yeah, the problem is because

923
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,760
ideologically the second one's
horrendous.

924
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,040
Like in terms of being given,
given this script, basically,

925
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,800
I'm sure all the people out
there who love explicit

926
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,880
instruction are licking their
lips.

927
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,760
No professional autonomy for me.
Let me just read off the slide

928
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,640
perfectly because the research
said this is the best way to do

929
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,160
it.
I'm sure they're loving that

930
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,400
second one and no marking.
You are really gonna trigger

931
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:47,800
these?
People.

932
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,520
I guess they're the kind of
people, though, who will also

933
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,400
say that triple marking is good
for some reason.

934
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:52,720
Because the research once said,
my goodness.

935
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,520
Are you anti research still?
No, I'm not anti research and

936
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,000
I'm not anti explicit
instruction.

937
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,640
What I'm anti is when I go
online and say it doesn't matter

938
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,920
if the word retrieval's in the
top corner of my screen and I

939
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,480
get a paragraph about how I'm
anti.

940
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,360
I'm against explicit
instruction, I'm against

941
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,720
research, and I'm a selfish
teacher because I want to just

942
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:12,720
be creative in my lessons.
Yeah, who are you?

943
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,120
Yeah, Firstly, yeah, he is.
But that's not why you.

944
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,800
That's a guess, and it's just a
coincidence actually.

945
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,280
But shut up.
OK, so I mean, I'd go for that

946
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,440
one.
I wouldn't like either of them,

947
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,280
but I'd go for the one where I'm
like, well, it is half 3.

948
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,360
See ya for that one.
Yeah, obvious.

949
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,480
Definitely right next one.
Hi to you both.

950
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,480
I really love the podcast.
I kept paying.

951
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:36,600
Thanks.
Yeah, thank you.

952
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:37,920
Appreciate that.
Hannah, this is Hannah.

953
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,760
Put her name down.
And by the way, if you put your

954
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,320
name in, you get a shout out.
Thanks, Hannah.

955
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,280
If you could only teach one
subject for the rest of your

956
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,080
life, what would it be and why?
PS Apart from maths, because I

957
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,760
know you both love it, after
that chat we just had, you

958
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,120
couldn't have nailed it.
There's a supplementary question

959
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,160
but we'll come on to that
afterwards.

960
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,520
So if yeah, you could only teach
one.

961
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,800
Subject, subject And it's not a
maths.

962
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,640
Why have you done that to me?
No, because maths was the

963
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:02,840
easiest answer.
Throw me off.

964
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,160
OK, whilst I'm thinking about it
and you're thinking about it,

965
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,600
firstly, do you think it'll be
English or are you already

966
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,480
thinking it's just one of the
foundation subjects?

967
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,240
This is so hard because there's
two prongs.

968
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,440
There's one where I'm like for
the sake of the children, but

969
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,600
I'm going to imagine children
get the whole curriculum.

970
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:21,760
I'm just teaching.
Yeah, yeah, that's it.

971
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,880
They gotta do.
That one so because otherwise it

972
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,960
would be English, but if it's me
personally, yeah, yeah, yeah, it

973
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,120
would be history or science.
And I'm really struggling to

974
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,600
pick it'd be history or science.
To me they are the elite pillars

975
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,200
of the foundation.
Subjects like and cite it.

976
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,640
Science it probably science
because of the experiments you

977
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,640
can do.
But I love history so much so

978
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,720
I'm really struggling there.
I'd say in primary school,

979
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,280
resourced well with good funding
and adequate backing and

980
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,520
resources.
Science.

981
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:49,960
It's.
Interesting that comes with

982
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,000
market.
I'm thinking drama.

983
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,880
I'm thinking drama, baby drama
and PE until I'm in that school

984
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,560
where it's like, you've got to
now do books in drama.

985
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:01,800
Oh my God.
And you've got to take pictures

986
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:02,360
for every.
Lesson.

987
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,920
I'm sorry.
Listen, I know, I know.

988
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,880
I was there watching the
performance at the end, but how

989
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,560
on earth can we evidence this?
How on earth do I know this

990
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,440
performance happened if it's not
in the black book?

991
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,960
Yeah, put it in a black book.
A big massive black book and put

992
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,560
it in the middle of the bloody
floor and get all the kids to

993
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,320
stick in and do a handprint.
Mr Head Teacher, what?

994
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:19,760
No fingerprint?
Sorry, what do I do at the end

995
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,600
of the year with this book?
That dead bloody no, put it in

996
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,520
the bloody bit.
We don't need it.

997
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,000
Don't ask me what we're doing
it.

998
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,520
We simply have it so.
That if Ofsted walk in we can

999
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,280
say all that book.
Yeah, we haven't.

1000
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,200
Do nothing, I promise.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1001
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:33,920
Because without the book,
clearly.

1002
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,760
Nothing.
Clearly nothing happened.

1003
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,040
Yeah, outrageous.
I'm gonna go for science.

1004
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:41,400
The experiments in primary
school, if I look back at all

1005
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,920
the stuff I loved, experiments
in science always was a moment

1006
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,320
like.
Yeah, fair enough.

1007
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:46,840
Do you watch A?
Really.

1008
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,000
Good one in in primary school
and this is probably more to do

1009
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,080
maths, I suppose.
Science.

1010
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,040
I'm just going to get it in
there.

1011
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,080
Yeah, it's it's kind of science
as well, but it's mainly maths

1012
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,520
and volume.
The absolute genuine shock on a

1013
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,640
child's face when you show them
the amount of water in different

1014
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,880
containers can be the same but
the container can look really

1015
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,440
different.
So that you had a really tall

1016
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,960
thin cylinder that's really
tall, right?

1017
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,400
And then like a short wide
circular one that's filled like

1018
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,120
like an inch high.
And then and then what's amazing

1019
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,920
is when you throw one away and
you're like, OK, and you pour in

1020
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,080
the left one and it's the same.
They're mind like blown.

1021
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,040
Those moments where children, I
think it's where they like

1022
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,640
they're kind of exploring the
world in your control of this,

1023
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,520
like experiment.
And then with a teaching point

1024
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,720
at the end, them them seeing
that the volume of something can

1025
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:34,480
be the same but look so
different.

1026
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,760
It doesn't look like yeah.
It challenges their perception.

1027
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,040
Another one that's the same sort
of thing as that now I love

1028
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,320
doing it with the kids, is when
you drop two things to show them

1029
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,000
like two things that are that
you say to them which one's

1030
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,400
gonna hit the ground first.
Sure, Right.

1031
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,280
Obviously you can't use like a a
feather.

1032
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,680
Yeah, it doesn't.
It's just got two things that I

1033
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,120
always try and think that are
roughly maybe the same size, but

1034
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,800
one is like clearly so much.
Maybe like a pencil and like a

1035
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,960
football, yeah.
And then like, obviously the

1036
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,320
football's gonna hit their
ground first because it's bigger

1037
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:01,640
and.
Heavier and it's going to hit

1038
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,080
and you do it and they hit the
ground the same time.

1039
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:04,800
They're always.
Like what?

1040
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,240
What?
I didn't think this is how it

1041
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,520
works, you know, And then
someone does come up with a

1042
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,960
feather and brace it and
explain, like, deep science to

1043
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,040
how it works.
But it's just another good one.

1044
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,320
Is it?
I just love Yeah, seeing it

1045
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,440
because they just make
assumptions about the world.

1046
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,760
And then and in science you can
ruin those assumptions.

1047
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,240
Exactly and exactly.
And teach them something.

1048
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,320
I love that when you shock the
kids and like a really, really

1049
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,760
like harmless way.
I had once a big metre stick

1050
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,280
that I'd walk around with in
maths and just be silly, you

1051
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,040
know, I'm like, yeah, I've got
the metre stick of, of destiny,

1052
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:34,680
who knows the answer being
silly.

1053
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,880
And I accidentally on purpose
pushed it up once.

1054
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,800
And you know, those tiles you
get in the ceiling, that's

1055
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:40,720
exactly what you're going to
say.

1056
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:43,400
It's like Styrofoam tiles that's
kind of just kept in place by

1057
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:44,840
like a metal grid.
All the schools have them

1058
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,600
because they use them in the 80s
and nothing's been replaced.

1059
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:47,800
Exactly.
And they're falling apart.

1060
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,240
And I probably didn't help
because I would poke it right

1061
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,880
accidentally on purpose.
I'd be like, yes, and then we do

1062
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,000
this and I poke it up and it
would like move the ceiling.

1063
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:01,800
Completely harmless, but every
single child that broke the

1064
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,800
roof, what's going on?
I'm like, oh, this is like a

1065
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,200
nice little string to my bow
where I can just do something

1066
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,480
that's completely not going to
hurt anyone whatsoever, but make

1067
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,760
the kids, like in awe and shock.
My teacher, my own teacher when

1068
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,240
I was in year 2, did that and
convinced me that she lived.

1069
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:17,320
I mean, that's what it.
Is before she.

1070
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,240
Lived in the school attic and
and I went home and told my

1071
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,320
parents got ridiculed.
Such a moron.

1072
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,160
What do you mean of course your
teacher doesn't live there.

1073
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,080
They do.
She told me.

1074
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,480
She told me she doesn't.
You're an idiot.

1075
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,040
Yeah, yeah.
And that's science.

1076
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,720
That's science and work.
Obviously this proven.

1077
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:33,840
Told you're an idiot, move on.
So good.

1078
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,440
And the supplementary question
to this was more seriously.

1079
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:40,120
This is preface with this is
more serious.

1080
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,560
If you could choose the most
elite biscuit to have a never

1081
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,040
ending supplier in the staff
room, what would it be?

1082
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,600
Don't like this bit brackets?
Whisper Golds are not biscuits.

1083
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,720
What?
What do you mean was?

1084
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,320
OK, fair enough.
They're not, they're not

1085
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,320
biscuits at all.
But yeah, yeah, I think you

1086
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,280
know.
I would probably oh man, I was

1087
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:06,640
so tricky because I would what
you doing just just watching?

1088
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:07,640
Can you please explain what
you're?

1089
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,680
Doing right, just getting a most
elite biscuit.

1090
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,160
That's Dylan.
Has Dylan is is unwrapping and

1091
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,240
about to eat a whisper gold.
Unbelievable.

1092
00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:16,320
Live on air.
Go on.

1093
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,920
Best biscuits Best.
You put me off.

1094
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,360
I'm thinking maybe, maybe
something Chuck the team of

1095
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,680
Caramel.
I can't something about.

1096
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,000
I tell you what the elite
biscuits are because I trump on

1097
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,200
this.
I'm sorry, everyone is actually

1098
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,000
listening to me.
He's a chocolate hobnob.

1099
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:34,920
Oh yeah, they are pretty good,
aren't they?

1100
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,120
They are pretty good.
I was basically torn between

1101
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,920
something chocolatey like that
and my current obsession.

1102
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:43,720
Oreo Double cream 90P in Tesco's
when they're on discount on the

1103
00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:45,040
club card price.
Double cream.

1104
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,880
Yeah, Double cream Oreos.
Oh man, I just rinse a packet

1105
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:48,840
so.
Your favourite biscuit is one

1106
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,280
that's less biscuit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

1107
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:52,840
Yeah, actually.
Yeah.

1108
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,160
The more chocolate or filling on
the biscuit.

1109
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,480
I feel like we're establishing
this right now.

1110
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,080
And This is why Whisper Gold's
the best with 0 biscuit on the

1111
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,360
chocolate.
That's the best biscuit I've

1112
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,160
ever seen.
Yeah, it's a chocolate.

1113
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:04,440
Can't believe in a whisper?
Gold.

1114
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:05,920
Yeah.
And I'm gonna finish that as

1115
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,760
soon as it's recordings, I hope.
You've got more for me.

1116
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,400
No, I've got a drink, though.
I've got more, but they're not

1117
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,760
for you.
So what would you go for?

1118
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:13,520
Oreo.
Yeah.

1119
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,640
I'm gonna go Oreo double cream.
You can go hobnob if you want.

1120
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,000
Yeah.
No, no, I'll allow chocolate

1121
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,160
BLOB.
I'll tell you, I'll do good.

1122
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,080
Chocolate caramel, of course.
Chocolate caramel.

1123
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:24,960
Done.
Chocolate caramel digestive.

1124
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:26,880
Yeah, they're really, really,
really good.

1125
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,760
I've seen this.
They are seeing the trend here

1126
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,400
they are.
Is that chocolate and caramel

1127
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:31,320
in?
It's funny, whenever you have

1128
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,560
those, I see, I see that you
nibble off the biscuit and sort

1129
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,240
of leave it on the side and you
just eat the chocolate and

1130
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:35,880
caramel.
Weird.

1131
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,600
Just take it off the top so
well.

1132
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:39,760
Oh right.
Thank you Hannah.

1133
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,640
Wow, that lovely question.
You know us so well.

1134
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,640
I felt, I felt.
Yeah, that was my soul there.

1135
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,000
You love maths and whisper goals
like that.

1136
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,360
There is all there is to my
personality.

1137
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:47,800
Not much more.
That is literally it.

1138
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,680
What are some well-being
initiatives that SLT have

1139
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,120
implemented slash can implement
that you think would actually

1140
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,520
make a difference?
I love this question.

1141
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:58,840
I'll take the last one for a
start.

1142
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,600
The last the last answer we just
get ending never ending whisper

1143
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,480
goals and hobnobs and Oreos.
Oh God would be.

1144
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,320
It would be a good one.
So go on, best, best initiatives

1145
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,520
that SLT can the implement for
well-being.

1146
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,520
I think this is a really good
question because I want to come

1147
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:13,960
back, just step back for a
second.

1148
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,120
And we do like to joke and stuff
about forced yoga sessions after

1149
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:19,960
school.
I don't think these things

1150
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,600
happen very often obviously, and
it is a joke.

1151
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,040
But I think what it gets to is
the main kind of push I have for

1152
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,280
well-being for staff is that as
leaders, you don't necessarily

1153
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,760
know what's best for your
staff's well-being.

1154
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,800
And it's OK to not know.
And it's also OK for every

1155
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,880
individual in your staff to have
a different definition of

1156
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,520
well-being for them.
For some people on your staff

1157
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,960
team and let's say maybe you're
younger or even just say maybe

1158
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,400
you live on your own, for
example, and school is the way

1159
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,400
you socialise as well and you
have your mates at school.

1160
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,760
An after school yoga class would
be fantastic.

1161
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,360
Wouldn't it really Like that
would could genuinely help

1162
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,240
someone with the well-being?
Like I know we make jokes about

1163
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,640
it, but realistically that could
help the individual.

1164
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,880
And the issue comes when what
what I'm really saying is that

1165
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,320
there is no one thing that I
think you have to do

1166
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:10,680
traditionally to help well-being
to the teachers.

1167
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:14,000
Let me finish what I'm saying.
There's no one thing in terms of

1168
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,040
reducing work is an obvious 1.
So if anything comes down to

1169
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,200
reducing work, yeah, fine, okay,
clearly that's better.

1170
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:21,200
Cool.
But if I'm thinking of a

1171
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:22,960
well-being initiative, yeah,
sure.

1172
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,440
To me that is different to I've
changed the marketing policy.

1173
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,840
To me, that's not a well-being
initiative.

1174
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,000
That's just looking after your
work and that's good for your

1175
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,120
staff.
You know, if the answer is

1176
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,360
reducing your work, OK, cool.
That's the easiest answer in the

1177
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:35,440
world ever.
And it's hard to do.

1178
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,760
You should always be striving to
do that and keeping standards

1179
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,360
high.
But in terms of an actual

1180
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,040
well-being initiative, I don't
think you should implement that

1181
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,640
to your staff and say we're all
doing yoga at this point.

1182
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,240
I've organised a quiz for Friday
night that we've all got to do.

1183
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,600
We're all going out for a drink.
Some people might not drink,

1184
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,840
some people might hate quizzes,
some people might want to not do

1185
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,200
their yoga. well-being for me
would be getting home to my

1186
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,320
family sooner.
So if you're going to have some

1187
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,560
kind of well-being initiative, I
think it has to be freedom to

1188
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,160
your, I have to do something,
for example, a well-being day, a

1189
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,120
day where you can book out at
any point.

1190
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,400
It's not about reducing workload
necessarily, because maybe it

1191
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,560
just means that you you do an
extra thing at some point, Maybe

1192
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,000
I don't know, but just the
freedom to say, do you know

1193
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,760
what, as a teacher, I don't get
any time off in term time.

1194
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,360
And sometimes there are just
things that happen that doesn't

1195
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,120
matter.
I get 13 weeks off in this other

1196
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,440
these other times I can't go to
my friend's wedding.

1197
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,800
Yeah.
Can I take my well-being day

1198
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:28,880
here?
Yes you can.

1199
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,480
Of course you can.
Off you go done.

1200
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,000
That to me is like the autonomy
to the person and that helps

1201
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,120
their well-being because I'm not
assuming what helps you.

1202
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:37,720
Yeah, I, I agree.
I think you pretty much

1203
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:39,960
summarise what I was going to
say, which is I think the only

1204
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,640
well-being initiatives that work
are literally the ones that

1205
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,120
provide freedom.
I don't think well-being

1206
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,200
initiatives, I, I don't like any
of the well-being initiatives

1207
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,400
where it's like I'm booking up
this time for you have to do

1208
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:50,480
this because it's good for your
well-being.

1209
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,160
Like you said, I just, I just
don't think they're good.

1210
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:53,120
So.
What were you going to say when

1211
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,040
you said you can think of?
One it was was about time.

1212
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,480
I think the best well-being
initiatives, I think the only

1213
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,520
great well-being initiative that
works for literally everyone

1214
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,560
ever is when a school puts
something in place that reduces

1215
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,160
the amount of time that person
has to be in work.

1216
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,360
Because of the whole point of
well-being is born from this

1217
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,040
idea of work life balance, which
realistically it is.

1218
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,600
Then obviously doing a bit less
time in work is good for your

1219
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,080
well-being.
But for some people, they love

1220
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:17,880
doing more time in work.
That's, that's literally my

1221
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:18,640
point.
That's fine.

1222
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,760
But that's what I mean.
I'm like, it has to be

1223
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,160
individualised, like honestly.
Because the freedom is freedom.

1224
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,000
If they've got the freedom and
they still choose to do

1225
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,320
whatever, it's up to you.
But I'm giving you that

1226
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,400
opportunity.
Like I think of some well-being

1227
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,000
things that even our schools
that we've worked in before have

1228
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:34,560
done.
And yeah, we've had stuff like

1229
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:35,880
well-being days and they're
really great.

1230
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,200
And just generally that top down
appreciation of you as a human

1231
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,120
being.
Also just basically anything

1232
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,800
where a leader says, where a
leader recognises, oh, you do

1233
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,440
way more than the directed time
calendar.

1234
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,720
Could you do by default as a
teacher, if you didn't know that

1235
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:51,480
already, everyone does more than
directed time calendar by

1236
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,080
default.
It's just impossible not to be

1237
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,080
able to do that.
So when a leader recognises that

1238
00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:59,760
and actually direct some of your
directed time to not do to give

1239
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,640
you freedom, they give you some
freedom in the directed time.

1240
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,680
This staff meeting this week,
guys, I reckon we've done loads.

1241
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:05,880
You've been working really hard
recently.

1242
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:06,880
I've cancelled the staff
meeting.

1243
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,120
Use the hour, do what you want.
Yeah, for some people, that

1244
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,280
means they get to go home an
hour earlier.

1245
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:11,640
That is an hour of well-being
for them.

1246
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,800
For other people, they just get
to do a bunch of other jobs that

1247
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,000
maybe we're going to do on the
weekend.

1248
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:15,960
They've done it in that hour
now.

1249
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,080
And some people, like you said,
maybe they don't care.

1250
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,160
They're like, that's cool, but
I'm just going to crack on with

1251
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,320
what I was doing anyway.
I don't know, just little

1252
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,600
initiatives like that that free
up some time for teachers.

1253
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,760
That is what well-being should
be born from.

1254
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,880
Absolutely.
This actually reminded me,

1255
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,240
funnily enough, of a message we
received on our website.

1256
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:35,120
Now, we don't actually pin our
website much at all or plug it,

1257
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,240
but we've got a website
recently,

1258
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,440
www.teachseekrepeatpodcast.com.
You can go along, all the

1259
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,920
episodes are on there, there's
blog posts, there's all sorts.

1260
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:51,680
Nice short domain.
Www.tcppodcast where you can

1261
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:56,480
listen to allofthepodcast.com
down below and it has a built in

1262
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,480
contact form.
So we've had some people

1263
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,320
messages on there as well.
And this exact thing here about

1264
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,120
well-being and time, etcetera.
It just made me think of this

1265
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,560
story and I've got to read it.
Head teacher spent 30 minutes of

1266
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,920
our one hour after school CPD
session talking about how we

1267
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,400
should want to spend as much
time in school as we can because

1268
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:20,880
the 1265 hours isn't a legal
maximum if we are voluntarily in

1269
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,600
for more and kept dropping in
that if we care about the school

1270
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:28,440
and community we would be.
Went on to say that the phrase

1271
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,200
work life balance annoys him
because you should be fulfilled

1272
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,680
in work and your personal life
so why would there need to be a

1273
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,440
balance?
He said he didn't want to hear

1274
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,200
anyone having the wrong mindset
because people have been talking

1275
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,840
about how tired they are.
He ended it by showing the quote

1276
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,360
you can't pour from an empty cup
and added the addendum.

1277
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:54,280
But can you fill your cup from
school and told us we should be

1278
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,200
getting our fulfilment from
school?

1279
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,360
He told us nothing makes me
happier than when I know I've

1280
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,880
given 100% each week.
Well yes, I'm sure I'd feel the

1281
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,360
same if I was on your salary
mate.

1282
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:06,960
Yeah, I don't think I even would
even at that.

1283
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,840
I'm like, I don't think I could
be that much of A drip honestly.

1284
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,000
You give me 80 KA year and I'm
still not going to be that much

1285
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,680
of A drip.
Like what is wrong with people?

1286
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,520
What is wrong with people?
Telling other people what they

1287
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:17,840
should feel fulfilment.
How they should.

1288
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,000
That is insanity to me.
That is like the most

1289
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,480
narcissistic behaviour I've ever
heard on this podcast.

1290
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,280
I'm not saying something because
you're on this podcast.

1291
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,480
I tell you what to feel,
listeners.

1292
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:31,440
Listen to me, not him.
Well, there'll be someone on

1293
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,160
TikTok going, what are you
always so?

1294
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,080
Bloody mega.
Why don't you say something

1295
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,040
about the job for once?
Grow up if that triggers you.

1296
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,760
If me talking about this
existing triggers you more than

1297
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,240
the thing existing, you need to
grow up one of my.

1298
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:50,760
Favourite things to do at the
moment is go on to our TikTok

1299
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,120
channel yeah and and and read
your replies to some comics

1300
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,880
because I am loving it because
you're you're almost like you're

1301
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,960
past your era of getting like
super triggered and getting like

1302
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:03,480
really debating and you're now
in your era of like little one

1303
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,440
liner Saki comments little.
All funny things just makes me

1304
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:08,880
laugh.
My favourite 1 is that I still

1305
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,320
get some likes pop up every now
and then.

1306
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:15,200
Someone comment on a reel where
obviously yeah OK, we're moaning

1307
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,560
sure like honestly we've done
104 how many episodes now like

1308
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,520
140 odd of an hour of is a lot
right?

1309
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,680
Something when we talk about
literally everything but this

1310
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,440
one, this one clip was like yeah
man.

1311
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,280
Someone commented saying do you
ever say anything good about the

1312
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,440
profession or do you just loan
and they meant moan.

1313
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:34,800
They get a type so I just
replied.

1314
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,280
So now mate we just loaned 6.7%
APR I love.

1315
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,000
That you didn't reply Seriously
anyway.

1316
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:41,840
Completely.
Like honestly.

1317
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,520
Grow up.
I just want to say to those

1318
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,400
people now, if you're, if
you're, if you're sat there

1319
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,160
looking at us, talk about what
people have written into a

1320
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,560
podcast which they listen to and
enjoy and us here sat here doing

1321
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,080
a podcast about it.
If you're moaning about what the

1322
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:55,360
content is, go and do your own
one.

1323
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,240
Go and post your own thing
genuinely honestly.

1324
00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:00,720
The one I saw yesterday I just
was giggling for ages because it

1325
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:02,720
was it was a submission similar
to that kind of thing.

1326
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:05,400
Someone just a real experience
and someone's saying like,

1327
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,200
doesn't this suck, guys?
This actually happened to me.

1328
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:08,400
And that was what the clip was
about.

1329
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,680
And someone in the comments put
something on the lines of does

1330
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,640
anyone else know that this is
just absolutely 100% is not true

1331
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,040
and this is not what happens and
that this happens instead.

1332
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,480
And your comment was like, no,
it is 100 and true and it's a

1333
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,040
listener submission.
And this is exactly what

1334
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:21,040
happened.
And it does happen in some

1335
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:22,360
schools.
And the thing you said also

1336
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:23,560
sometimes happens.
Yeah, Yeah.

1337
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:25,240
Just straightforward of like,
shut up.

1338
00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:26,880
Yeah, I'm talking.
About shut up.

1339
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,680
It's it's I do you know what,
having like built more of a

1340
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,640
platform and seen more of
individuals, right.

1341
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,440
I can't believe, and it says a
lot about the current political

1342
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,520
landscape, by the way, I can't
believe how many people say

1343
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,280
something does not happen or is
not true simply because they

1344
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:43,840
have never experienced it
themselves.

1345
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,440
And I'm like, you're crazy.
So there's two options here.

1346
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,080
There's one option, right?
This person's never seen a green

1347
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,720
goose in their life.
So they say green geese don't

1348
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:54,880
exist.
This person has seen a green

1349
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:56,600
goose.
And so I saw one yesterday.

1350
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,440
There are them out there, the
green geese out there.

1351
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,120
I've seen them and and they so I
know they exist, right?

1352
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,040
In this situation, green geese
exist, but the person who's

1353
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,160
never seen one goes, well, I've
never seen one, so you're making

1354
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:08,840
it up.
It's like you've got no

1355
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,280
foresight whatsoever that you
what are you on about That

1356
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,080
doesn't exist.
And what do you mean it's not

1357
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,280
true just because you haven't
experienced something?

1358
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,280
And the current political
landscape is very much, as far

1359
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,360
as I'm concerned, on the side of
agreeing with the person that

1360
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,360
says I haven't seen it.
It was like, yeah, yeah, I

1361
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,480
haven't, Yeah, actually.
So we're all right.

1362
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,120
We all band together now and.
Seems to me that whatever I

1363
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,120
think because other people
think, it must be the thing to

1364
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:32,200
think.
Now that is what that head

1365
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,280
teacher was doing.
Yeah, completely.

1366
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,840
That head teacher embodies that
that that comment section has

1367
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,000
just turned into a head teacher
and said I, this is how I live

1368
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,400
my life.
So why shouldn't you all?

1369
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,640
You should all feel fulfilment
the same way that I do.

1370
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,680
It's that classic.
I see it all the time on TikTok

1371
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,520
and stuff on these like toxic
podcasts where it's like work

1372
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,040
life balance shouldn't exist.
Shut up.

1373
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,200
Like like it cannot exist for
you.

1374
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:55,800
And this is again what people
see all the time.

1375
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,200
We put the bloody shift in in
our lives.

1376
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,080
It didn't exist for me.
For a long time we've put in

1377
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,200
60-70 eighty hour weeks.
Genuinely for like years before

1378
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,160
we had kids especially.
Never in my life would I say to

1379
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,760
someone therefore I'm better and
you should just bloody do it.

1380
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,080
If you're not doing it then why
the bloody hell do you think

1381
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,560
you're being left behind?
Shut up.

1382
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,360
Get some compassion hasn't
stopping a narcissist.

1383
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,680
Get a whisper.
Bloody gold in your mouth and

1384
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,360
just chill out.
Just chill out.

1385
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,000
Chill out, man.
By listening to our podcast,

1386
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,280
Leaving the Review on Spotify.
Five stars preferable.

1387
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,120
I love the irony of me and you
telling someone to chill out.

1388
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:31,880
Just chill out.
Just chill out.

1389
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:33,840
We're vexed.
Yeah, I'm real.

1390
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:35,560
I'm real.
If my head was like that, I'd

1391
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,040
laugh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1392
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,000
I'd honestly laugh at that.
I'd be, I'd be going drip in the

1393
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:41,720
middle of the in the middle of
the staff.

1394
00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:42,840
Where'd they come from?
Why'd that come from?

1395
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:43,600
You wouldn't.
Have to say drip.

1396
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,160
You could just drink a drink.
We'd all hear the drip.

1397
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,200
Oh, I just call someone a drip.
Oh yeah, let's reference that

1398
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,760
because we, we, I made a ballsy
statement last week.

1399
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,200
Didn't know that you won't be
able to hear that on the

1400
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:53,280
microphone.
You absolutely could hear.

1401
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,280
Me so loud I wonder how loud the
whisper gold will be.

1402
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:56,680
Yeah, I don't know.
Probably not as loud as me

1403
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,880
drinking in all honesty.
Let's wrap it up there.

1404
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,200
Come on, let's finish off guys.
Thank you so much for your

1405
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:02,720
submissions.
Join the chat down below in the

1406
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:04,920
WhatsApp group and leave as a
review.

1407
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,520
I've got whisper gold on my team
so I can barely speak.

1408
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:07,840
Hayden, over to you.
Anything to finish off?

1409
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,760
Just no.
Just give me more whisper gold

1410
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:10,000
please.