Ep 152: The Future Of Education: AI, Oracy & Financial Literacy. Will The Curriculuim Review Work?

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach

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Sleep Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name's

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Hayden, and this episode we're
going to be diving into the

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curriculum review.
We're going to be taking a look

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at what piqued our interest,
talking about artificial

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intelligence, financial
literacy, life skills in

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general, maths fluency and
importantly, how we actually

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going to implement all of these
things in what is already, in my

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opinion, quite a bloated
timetable.

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And let's not forget the ORC
framework, which is all about

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the importance of speaking and
Dylan listening listening ears.

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So the curriculum review has
landed, it has been released,

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lots of chat about it online.
Overall, I think a lot of very

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promising stuff.
I genuinely read a lot of the,

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you know, indications that were
put forward to the government in

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this review by the expert panel.
And I thought, you know what,

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these are really good ideas in
general.

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There are a few niggling bits
we'll talk about in terms of,

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you know, how to implement it
and what should be given

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priority, etcetera.
But again, I think that was

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referenced in there and, you
know, very much said about how

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it's important to make sure this
is manageable, etcetera.

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And the government have
responded overwhelmingly

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accepting a lot of what's on
there.

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So again, it looks like we're on
the same page.

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I think it's a positive thing.
So I thought it'd be a really

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good opportunity for us on this
podcast just to break down some

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of the parts that we found
interesting or stood out to us.

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We can't do everything.
Yeah, there's, there's a lot on

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it.
Obviously we can't do all of

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those things right now.
So we've picked out some bits

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that, yeah, we think it'd be
worth talking about, basically.

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Absolutely, absolutely.
And so I want to start off with

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enrichment.
This really piqued my interest

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because the review directly
referenced something to do with

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basically how vital enrichment
is for our children etcetera,

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and they said the national
curriculum was not intended to

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take up the entire school day.
It's important the national

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curriculum maintains its
position as an ambitious

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entitlement for all.
However, schools have space to

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go beyond it to provide
innovative practise, locally

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tailored content and enrichment
activities that help to ensure

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young people thrive in education
and later life.

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I mean, we can't say that's a
bad thing.

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It's not a bad thing.
I, I like to think where it is

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right now as well.
Obviously enrichment's something

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new, isn't it?
It's not like, and there's no

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teacher listening to this being
like, oh, that's a good idea.

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Enrichment.
I like that term.

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Look at that on my wall.
Like obviously enrichment is a

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thing.
So why do you feel like there,

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there is a need to even bring
this up again and make it and

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bring it to the forefront of
people's minds with a quick

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number of you?
Is it not already happening?

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I I don't, I, yeah, it's was
reluctant to say, you know, I

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don't want to come out and be
like, don't focus on this is a

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million other things that are
really important or this isn't

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important.
No, it is.

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It's really, it's vital.
Yeah.

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Like you said, I don't think
this is news to teachers.

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I don't think people are
suddenly going to read this and

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go, oh, we do need to do
enrichment.

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We do need to make sure there
are sports things going on.

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We get all that.
But, you know, in the current

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context, let's be realistic for
a second.

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There are a lot of factors which
lead to reasons why schools

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might be doing less and less of
it than before.

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You know, cost.
Post COVID, the cost of coaches

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is insane.
It's disgusting.

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It's insane.
Unless you've got the Tower of

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London down your street from
your school where you can walk

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to, you get this amazing
experience.

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Most of the country don't have
that.

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You know, the cost of hiring
coaches outweighs that of the

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actual event itself half the
time, which puts school off.

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There's less money than ever.
There's loads of reasons, you

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know, teachers.
It takes time to arrange these

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things.
Yeah, it's, you know, if you

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we've both arranged trips in the
past, it is a time drain.

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And there are fewer people than
ever in schools exactly because

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of cuts the funding for the last
20 years.

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So like, you know, where where
someone else might have shared

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the burden of of planning that
trip.

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If it is a school trip, then
maybe that person there anymore.

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And it is slow.
As you know, as a as there's a

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burden on teachers to to make
these to do these things.

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And we often say on this
podcast, we're the first people

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to say, oh, you shouldn't have
have to be doing all these extra

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things outside of your directed
time.

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So in what?
Like I can't sit here and be

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like, yeah, so come on guys,
let's, let's do a bit more

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enrichment.
Let's think about all these

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extra things we can plan for the
kids whilst also simultaneously

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saying you're already stretched.
Everything, everything you do is

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already taken for granted.
Stop doing extra things.

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Otherwise the system will never
change.

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So I can kind of see why we're
in the position we're in where

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this curriculum review's coming
out and saying, oh, you know, we

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really should re prioritise
enrichment.

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It's like, yeah, it's great.
You know, one of the other

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things I mentioned was the, the,
that time, the international

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curriculum, it was not intended
to take up an entire school day.

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OK?
That's, it's one of those

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statements where I'm like, it's
not helpful just to say it

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wasn't intended.
OK, It wasn't.

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Could we?
Let's just talk about reality.

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I don't care what and I honestly
don't care about the intentions

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of the national curriculum
written, you know, from 2014 or

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even before.
Let's just look at what's

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happening right now.
The school day is incredibly

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bloated.
We often talk about how it's

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hard to fit everything into the
school day just as is.

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And there's lots of reasons for
that.

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And we're going to talk more
about the curriculum bloat and

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this stuff later because it
comes up a bit later in our

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points.
But like, what?

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What do we do then?
Like how, how do we fit

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enrichment in if it's not
already happening in schools

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that are already stressed about
fitting in a bloated curriculum?

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I don't know why.
Where do we start?

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I think we need to be brutal at
schools and, and really push

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back and say, OK, then I will do
less.

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All right, I've got a history
unit.

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That's six lessons.
OK all right, I'll do four or

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five lessons.
And instead we'll have a, you

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know, a Roman day, Yeah, where
we get activities out for the

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kids and we'll do that.
We have to be more brutal at

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schools.
OK, Yeah, we will do that.

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Then we will cut this.
The reason schools are doesn't

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do that.
It's pretty obvious what I've

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Ofsted called next month and say
we're doing a deep dive in

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history.
Is that OK?

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It's great if fantastic, you
know, like we can point to this

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new framework.
We can say why enrichment's

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really important.
But ultimately, if you know, the

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Ofsted inspector comes down on
the fact that your chronology is

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off exactly because you've
missed out something because you

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had a few lessons than before,
they're not going to, you know,

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getting the national curriculum
up and going.

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Well, it's just half a page.
This is why, you know, we made

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it less bloated.
We did all this enrichment.

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It's great.
I think it's the right answer,

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by the way, But I can see why
schools are reluctant to do it

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because they don't want to be
caught between a rock and a hard

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place when it comes to Ofsted
coming in and saying, well, you

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didn't do this.
And then you've got other people

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in the review saying, well, you
need more.

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Enrichment.
Well, do you know what?

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Unfortunately, I'm going to side
with the people who have control

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and power over how my school is
viewed and it ultimately ranked

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my school.
It's also easier said than done

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at the whole like country level.
I think it's very easy.

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You could probably go somewhere
in the country and go to it and

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say, well, they're doing it
really well.

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That's what's.
Happening.

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I think they're saying this
happens in some schools, so why

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is it not happening in that
school?

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I think.
There's some really obvious

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reasons.
One of the biggest ones for me

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is lit the just the physical
location for two reasons, right?

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There's one of them is kind of a
bit more, you know, a bit less

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tangible.
But #1 the big thing here was

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about local enrichment.
Sure, OK, you've got all monies,

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go on coaches and do all these
other things.

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OK, cool.
Just use your local environment.

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Some people's local environment
is very different to others and

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there's not maybe not as much to
do or maybe not as much to see

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there's this related to whatever
they're doing that'll.

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Be something, sure, but not
everything, right?

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Exactly.
Not everywhere.

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Some place is obviously
incredibly rich for this sort of

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thing.
And it's easy for them.

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Like, why is no one else doing
this is easy, Yeah.

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And the second thing is also
like money, not just for

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teachers and things, right, but
how much people, how much money

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families have in your catchment
area.

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It's not always going to be the
same.

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There will be some schools that
genuinely just find it easy to

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say right within this enrichment
thing, it's £15 a head.

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Everyone chip in and we do one
of these a term and it's just

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not a problem.
There are other places where

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that is not a reality.
They can, they did that is

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literally impossible to do.
I worked in a school in in the

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past where doing something like
that would it was a huge

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challenge.
I remember one day I got sort of

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humbled because I said, oh,
we're doing this.

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I want to do an enrichment
thing.

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I said, we're going to do like a
business fair.

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It's been really fun.
The kids will need a little bit

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of money to spend on their
businesses.

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They're inventing because
they're going to do like an

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enterprise sort of thing.
And I just said to their

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teacher, let's, can we just ask
the parents to sort of bring in

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like the £5 per kid and then we
can use that to invest.

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And he was sort of really
quickly, like he was like, no,

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he's like, that's not something
we can ask our parents to do.

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Yeah.
It's just it's not going to work

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and it won't work for everyone.
We can't do that.

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We need to think of a different
way to do it.

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Yeah.
You know, whereas other places

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that wouldn't even be a question
of.

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Yeah, leafy suburb.
You know they're already putting

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fatty quid a month voluntary
donation in.

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Exactly.
Right.

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So you just need to consider,
I'm not saying that therefore we

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shouldn't do anything.
I'm just saying you have to.

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It's easy to blanket blanketly
say, yeah, enrichment's good, we

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should do it more.
Everyone just crack on now.

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You have to consider these
things that obviously impact it.

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Put your money where your mouth
is, because ultimately,

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honestly, those children in the
more deprived areas need

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enrichment more than anyone
because they're not getting

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anywhere.
Exactly.

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They're probably less like to
get it at home.

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Yeah, 100%.
So do you know what in general

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I've got to say, though, it's
not something we can sit here

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and say it's bad.
No, it's a great thing.

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It's fantastic, but we just have
to be realistic.

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Should be on the radar.
Another big thing in general was

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life skills.
And I thought, you know, that

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encompassed a lot.
So, you know, having a bit of a

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deeper dive into it, Something
that piqued my interest was

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media literacy, this idea of
actually teaching children how

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to understand and engage
critically with what they're

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seeing in the real world in this
era of fake news.

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You know, I, I think that is
vital.

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And I was very, very pleased to
see this, you know, being put on

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a pedestal.
And again, we'll talk about the

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00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,559
logistics of it later.
But I, I looked at this and I

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thought, can we, can we pretend
this is bad?

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00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,840
Not in any way.
The review considers media

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literacy to involve of
understanding and engaging

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critically with the messages
conveyed through different media

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channels, including artificial
intelligence.

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To empower young people to
engage critically with the

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messages they encounter.
The review recommends that the

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government strengthens the role
of media literacy in English and

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in citizenship.
So across subject I can't see

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00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,240
anything negative.
With this at all, you know what?

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00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:05,400
Some people are going to say
that, don't you?

241
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,800
You know what some people are
going to say?

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00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,760
Oh, here we go, lefty Woking
teachers choosing what media my

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00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,600
kids going to probably pushing
propaganda on them.

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00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,480
Don't.
They see and turn off GB News.

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00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,480
Maybe you should do that.
But beside the point, yeah.

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00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,520
I mean, I find that so often in
general, yeah, where people are

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00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,400
like.
Yeah, we should be against the

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00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,400
fake news and then the list, not
fake news and be like, yeah,

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we're against.
It's just their agenda for

250
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,120
goodness me.
It's not about fake news at all.

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00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,000
It's just you saying exactly
what your political views are

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00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,720
and making sure everyone thinks
everything else is done.

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00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,880
That's what that is.
That's not what I'm talking

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00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,000
about is kids seeing AI videos
that look indistinguishable from

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00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,160
real life now and then using it
to base a fact on or

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00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,040
discriminating on someone
because they watch this.

257
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,760
All these terrible things that
can happen through

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00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,120
misinformation or fake news,
whatever we want to call it.

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00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,440
It's probably, it's important
that at school, a place where we

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00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,720
centralised, you know, raising
the next community of people, we

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00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,600
probably should spend some time
showing them how to navigate

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00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,120
this especially.
It's a new and ever changing

263
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,880
world.
It's already crazy how good AI

264
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,240
content is in terms of how real
it looks.

265
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,560
Give it two years, give it three
years, give it 10 years.

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00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:11,800
Like we need to be putting
things in place right now to

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00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,960
teach children in media.
You know, how to differentiate.

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00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,800
Do you know, I always say to
people who come back, some

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00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,360
people say it's pretty obvious
when it's AI.

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00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:21,960
You can hear it slightly in the
tone, it just looks a bit off.

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00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,200
You can just tell when it's AI.
Two things #1 before you know

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00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,120
it, you won't be able to tell.
That's the first thing.

273
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,200
But the second thing is general,
general public aren't that

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00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:31,480
intuitive.
Genuinely.

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00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,120
They're just not.
When the first ever films were

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00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,800
released in the cinema, when
King Kong was put in the cinema,

277
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,560
right?
We look at it now and we think

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00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:40,640
it's laughable how obviously
fake it is.

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00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,640
People watched King Kong in the
cinema and left and went to

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00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,680
their family and said there's a
giant gorilla in New York.

281
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,120
They thought it was real because
it's based on what you you are

282
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,680
used to seeing.
You're used to seeing reels on

283
00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:55,440
your phone, short messages,
short sharp videos.

284
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,000
And as soon as AI replicates
that it's already happening,

285
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,600
you'll fill some people into
thinking it's real.

286
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,600
So for me, this is really
important and it has to focus on

287
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,640
simply identifying what's real
or not.

288
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,720
I think it's almost separate
genuinely to then, you know,

289
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,360
quantifying what's been said as
a fact or fiction in terms of,

290
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,760
OK, cool, right.
This person, this this public

291
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,960
figure did actually say this or
this public figure has had a

292
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,160
deep fake.
Identifying the difference

293
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,200
between them is one thing that I
think is really important.

294
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,080
And then there's another layer
which is then actually, and this

295
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,520
is in general now whether it's
print media, video, whatever it

296
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,680
might be to then actually look
at facts and think how can I

297
00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:37,080
verify?
The reliability, credibility of

298
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,200
sources, all that sort of stuff,
which is something I felt like

299
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,040
we've always kind of done a bit,
but bringing it to the forefront

300
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,240
with alongside this does make a
lot of sense.

301
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:45,880
I think it's completely,
completely appropriate.

302
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,480
So the other thing, obviously
we're talking about life skills

303
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:49,760
and financial literacy is a huge
one.

304
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,480
Before we do that, I just want
to because I felt like we're

305
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:52,360
talking about AI.
Yeah.

306
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,600
Another thing with AI is not
just identifying, like you said,

307
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,720
what's fake and what's real, but
also just genuinely how to

308
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,480
navigate it.
I noticed that they've put that

309
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,600
in there as well.
So the rise of the rise of AI

310
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,120
and trends in digital
information demand, heightened

311
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,280
media literacy, which we'll talk
about, and critical thinking as

312
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,200
well as digital skills.
Just the actual ability to look

313
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,040
at the tools and know how to use
them to your advantage.

314
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,440
It's not all bad.
We're painting AI as if it's

315
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,000
just this terrible thing that
makes fake news is obviously

316
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,560
great, great aspects.
Well, do you use AI?

317
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,560
I use AI.
A lot of teachers use it a lot

318
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:25,560
in terms of just upping their
productivity.

319
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,840
But you're right, I, I think
back to when I was in secondary

320
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,320
school and a lot of my time was
spent on an Excel spreadsheet

321
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,360
and we'd learn about formulas
and we'd have like a project

322
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,400
where we had an ITT journey.
But like, yeah, well, can you

323
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,760
think, oh, how could we possibly
get the sum of this and all this

324
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,240
kind of stuff?
You know, at the time, good.

325
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,080
Looking back now, you think kind
of obsolete.

326
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,520
Oh, there's lessons where I play
line rider.

327
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,120
All the time, yeah.
Yeah, I remember.

328
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,520
Those great what was it like we
used to find a way to get into

329
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,960
mini clip and play skateboard
Stan or something game, but you

330
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,000
know it it kind of was relevant
at the time.

331
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,240
We can see why we did it yeah,
we I think we should have done

332
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,240
coding a bit sooner yeah, it's a
big part now and that's great,

333
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:02,920
but even that now is becoming
out of date.

334
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,760
The only thing I would say in
terms of this AI is absolutely

335
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,880
learn how to use it, but it is
just let's just be forward

336
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,280
thinking for a second.
In the same way that Excel

337
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,760
became outdated to just do that
and then coding became a big

338
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:17,920
thing and coding is slowly
becoming outdated to just be

339
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,560
relied on.
I think it's that important to

340
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,800
do.
We need to just be careful of AI

341
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,920
and think, OK, whatever we put
in place, within five years

342
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,480
we'll probably be out of date
and we'll be training people up

343
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,720
when they're 12131415, heading
into the workplace when they're

344
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,880
20/21/22 and they're already
behind.

345
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,920
It's, I'm not saying we don't do
it, I'm just saying I wonder if

346
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,360
we can have some kind of
framework here or some kind of

347
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,640
idea which can extrapolate
along, you know, this is going

348
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,080
to develop and whilst it does
this, these are the skills you

349
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,960
still need.
Yeah, I think it's so important

350
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,480
that AI is never encompasses
computing as in like it is just

351
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,320
one unit.
I still think we should be doing

352
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,400
things like the Excel lessons.
I still think we should be doing

353
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,800
coding and stuff like that.
Because ultimately the problem

354
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,000
with AI is it will get to the
point eventually where AI, it

355
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,800
relies on all of human input
ever before to use, right?

356
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,360
If we get to the point where we
only use AI, there'll be no new

357
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:07,680
human innovation like training
AI.

358
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,840
And I always, always think about
that and people mention it all

359
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,360
the time in terms of a long term
downsides.

360
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,800
If we just, well, that's
eventually when I when it has

361
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,680
its own intelligence, it can do
its own thing.

362
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:17,480
That's.
Yeah, I guess so.

363
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,320
Yeah, yeah, sure.
But like, I just think it's

364
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,160
important.
Like in computing, I mean, they

365
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,640
obviously the quick review
suggests putting it in within

366
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,440
the computing curriculum.
I think that makes the most

367
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:26,040
sense.
Yeah.

368
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,280
I've already taught some AI
units.

369
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,480
I think some schemes of learning
were quick on this in the last

370
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,240
couple of years.
Obviously AI is very obvious.

371
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:33,360
It was going to be huge.
Yeah.

372
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,520
We used I compute our old school
and yeah, within like a year of

373
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,080
AI being huge, they were like,
cool, we've got a new unit out

374
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,120
and I taught one in year 6.
And it was really, really

375
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,760
genuinely interesting.
And it was pitched right for

376
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,080
these kids and it was just
showing them this is this is

377
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,560
what it is.
And they were like fascinated.

378
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,120
And I was thinking, crikey, as
an adult, I've been able to use

379
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,160
my life experience to kind of
work out what AI is.

380
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,680
But for a nine year old, 10 year
old, actually, it's really

381
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,120
important we do show them, oh
this is what it is, by the way,

382
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,440
because they just think it's
magic.

383
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,680
And, and it's so true and where
it's replaced, we had a great

384
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,400
talk of Greg Jenner going back
with Greg Jenner about AI, where

385
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,920
it's almost being merged in with
the search engine.

386
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,160
So again, if you Google
something now, you'll get an AI

387
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,800
summary at the top.
And I'm not saying it was always

388
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,080
reliable beforehand because you
could go, go to a website

389
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,560
anywhere and find out whatever
you wanted and it would say

390
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,040
whatever you need to say.
But you could kind of at least

391
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,560
say, OK, well, this is from this
website, this is a trusted

392
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:24,960
website, this is from this
website.

393
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,520
I can't trust that because of
these reasons.

394
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,920
Now with the, with the
generator, like the AI at the

395
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,200
top kind of just giving you a
summary, There's footnotes and

396
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:33,720
things in there, but it's harder
to get to.

397
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,640
And it's kind of taking from 8
things at once.

398
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,400
And it's sometimes wrong.
It has been wrong and it has

399
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,640
been wrong before.
Like, you know, to a point where

400
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,800
you're like, OK, children need
to understand what is going on

401
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,600
here.
This is an AI overview.

402
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,080
This isn't what someone has
written and cited exactly

403
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,320
because of this source in this
book.

404
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,680
And that goes back to your
media, media literacy, which is

405
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,560
like reliable sources.
Credible sources, yeah.

406
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,200
Just it's all move in the right
direction, isn't it?

407
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:57,800
Yeah, that's why I think so.
I don't.

408
00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,640
I think there's a lot of people
that it's fun to be negative,

409
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:00,640
isn't it?
And fun to like.

410
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,800
Oh, we know about that.
You know, yeah, of course it can

411
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,480
be, though.
Everything's so bad that only

412
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,520
pick out the bad bits or even
just in seeing that everything's

413
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,360
bad.
But I think these are all the

414
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,440
right choices.
Even if you don't like AI.

415
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,720
It's like it's almost irrelevant
now.

416
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,440
That opinion is irrelevant.
It's happening.

417
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,640
It doesn't matter anymore.
You can be against it what you

418
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,800
want, it'll just be left in the
past like it's happening.

419
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,440
Like so we should probably and
you should still talk.

420
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:22,640
About it, maybe.
The drawbacks?

421
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,160
Absolutely we should we.
Should always, but we shouldn't

422
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,880
then bury our head in the sand
and say, well, I, I'm not

423
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,720
engaging with it so well, I'll
tell you what that your kids

424
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,760
will be.
So we really should just be

425
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,040
teaching them about it.
Yeah, there's one thing that I'm

426
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,560
talking about being negative.
The only thing I would say here,

427
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,640
it caught my interest going
through stuff it mentioned about

428
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:45,120
how AI presents a risk to
assessment, reliability, you

429
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,240
know, if you're using AI to
write your essays for you,

430
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,160
etcetera.
But then it made a link that I

431
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,920
don't necessarily agree with.
I wonder what you think about it

432
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,280
Reinforcing the fact that exams
are the fairest way, therefore

433
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,640
to be assessing children because
you're in a timed condition,

434
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,280
you're in a room without an AI
bot.

435
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,040
It's just you, your mind, and
you're answering questions that,

436
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,960
being fairer than maybe having
access to AII, don't.

437
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,480
I don't think I agree.
I really don't think I agree

438
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,359
with that because again, the
reason is at what other point in

439
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,440
your life are you forced into
those exam conditions to

440
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,760
regurgitate what you know?
There are some, there are some

441
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,520
things where it's important to
understand that you yourself

442
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,680
have a certain fundamental level
of understanding.

443
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,079
I get that right.
I really do.

444
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,240
So I understand why there's a
role for examples in some

445
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,960
situations, OK.
But there are some situations

446
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,120
where it doesn't matter if off
the top of your head, in a timed

447
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:41,320
condition in a test, your work
is slightly less good than if

448
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,000
you were just maybe at your own
computer in your own office with

449
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,000
an AI assistant helping you out.
Right.

450
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,400
Well, you're, you're, you're
still producing the work.

451
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,960
You're still doing it to a
certain level.

452
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,160
I don't necessarily think that
it, it, this means exams are now

453
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:56,680
in a pedestal.
They're way more important.

454
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,840
I think we have to move with the
times as well, with how we

455
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,240
assess children and how we use
artificial intelligence.

456
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,280
It's a tool.
Do you know when, when we're

457
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,080
writing, you know, a, a
dissertation on word versus

458
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,600
writing an essay?
Do we take into account that

459
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,280
word has spell check built in?
Do we take into account that

460
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,440
there's there's grammar that you
can fix on the Word document

461
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,360
that does it for you?
Do we take into account that you

462
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,880
could have Grammarly installed
and it says use this for being

463
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,680
concise, etcetera, and getting
to the point quicker?

464
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,440
No, because it doesn't matter.
And we accept those are just

465
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:27,960
part of the tools that you get
on a computer.

466
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,280
Yeah.
And that is different to when

467
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,760
you're in real life writing
things down.

468
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,400
I think we just have to, I
agree, accept that the landscape

469
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,400
is changing and understand that.
I just don't necessarily think

470
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,280
it it now puts exams on this
pedestal.

471
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,480
I'd say the jump between writing
things down and going to the

472
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,920
tools that you get from
Microsoft Word though, is a is

473
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,080
like a significantly smaller
jump from going from Microsoft

474
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,400
Word to AI, which can do the
entire process for you.

475
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:52,040
Completely agree.
I.

476
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:53,200
Think that's probably where that
lies.

477
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:54,720
Like, I can understand the
analogy, but that's where I

478
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,360
think people will push.
Back No, no, I think I think

479
00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:59,280
you're absolutely right all I'm
all I'm trying to say is here

480
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,120
understanding that landscape has
moved, I don't think means that

481
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,200
coursework's pointless now an
example on a future pedestal.

482
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,320
I understand the benefit of
understand like it makes it

483
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,720
clearer what you get from an
exam, what you get from

484
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,160
coursework, but.
It hasn't unchanged.

485
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:14,200
I don't think it's changed.
Don't get what you get.

486
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,400
We all know what we get from
exams.

487
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,480
It's a proof of knowledge.
I I think it's a huge problem,

488
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,200
by the way, don't, I don't
underplay this, that there are

489
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,320
definitely going to be students
out there who just whack it into

490
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,480
AI and honestly don't have a
clue what they're even

491
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:25,360
submitting.
Yeah.

492
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,000
So there's got to be ways around
doing that.

493
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,000
And you know, I think alongside
maybe little tests or quizzes

494
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,400
and stuff, I think that's a good
thing.

495
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,560
I agree because ultimately if if
a grade or certification,

496
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,000
certification certificate,
whatever it is at the end

497
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,600
certification is.
Yeah, I was gonna say I realise

498
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,240
as I said it, I was.
There's a word if they are

499
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,040
essentially what they are is is
a metric.

500
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,040
They're a proof of knowledge,
aren't they?

501
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,320
Are proof of understanding of
something to qualify you for

502
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,720
something else.
If the fundamental underpinning

503
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,560
bit of that is that you don't
have the knowledge at all

504
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:51,960
because you've found a way
around it.

505
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,520
I can see the problem in that
system.

506
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,240
I get it.
I understand why a kid getting

507
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,120
through getting a B in their
history, but they got, you know,

508
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:03,120
they got F on the exam, but they
got an A triple star.

509
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:04,720
Now it's different now numbers,
isn't it?

510
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,640
But you know, they got really
great in the course because of

511
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,280
course it's all faith.
They count of B and then someone

512
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,680
thinks, oh, they're not bad.
Yeah, obviously that's problem

513
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,040
because actually don't know
anything about it.

514
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,200
They just someone else has
written.

515
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,960
It's really funny 'cause when I
was at university, I was the

516
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,680
opposite really.
When I was at university, I got

517
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,800
firsts in my exams and tutus all
lower, even in my coursework

518
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:24,200
because I just, I couldn't be
bothered.

519
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,840
Yeah, I don't like, I just could
not be bothered.

520
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,800
I was like, this is boring.
Whereas I could retain

521
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,000
information and put something
together really well in an hour.

522
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,080
So that but but my point is,
this is what it's rooted in,

523
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,760
right?
I fudged it.

524
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,840
I had this ability to cram
knowledge and put together a

525
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,800
well, well, a coherent answer
and and get facts in my exam in

526
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,360
an exam, and I just crammed for
that week beforehand and I could

527
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:51,560
get first and and rate it got me
up to A21, but my coursework, it

528
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,760
wasn't as good Now.
OK, cool.

529
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,760
I could have also fudged that.
That's the point I'm saying

530
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,440
here.
I don't mean you can you Oh, you

531
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,960
can only fudge a thing like not
realistically.

532
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,000
There were people who also got a
21 who who had much more

533
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,040
knowledge than me because I
cramped and I just got I got

534
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,600
ready for the exam.
I think there are drawbacks is

535
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,320
all I'm saying.
I completely agree.

536
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,800
And I hear, you know, stories
all the time about how

537
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,160
especially a coursework, you
know, people, it's amazing.

538
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,440
You got nearly 4 marks in your
coursework, but in your test

539
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,200
you, you know, like you said,
you got hard anything that's a

540
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,120
bit strange.
Whereas I think you can explain

541
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:25,760
my one a bit more is I'm lazy.
It's funny how even in your

542
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,120
situation you managed to fudge
something because I can imagine

543
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,520
the big counter argument for or
the big argument for saying,

544
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,760
yeah, let's just get kids back
in exam halls writing down their

545
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,520
essays or whatever, because then
we know they're not sat there

546
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,680
with AI on a computer.
It's like, yeah, apart from the

547
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,120
Dillons who will write it all in
AI beforehand and memorise the

548
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:41,760
entire thing and go in there
because they've just got, they

549
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,560
can crown all that knowledge.
It's still going to, it will

550
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,520
still have an impact.
We have to, I agree.

551
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,400
I think we have to consider the
change in landscape.

552
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,200
I don't know what the answer is
right now.

553
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,600
Maybe exams are still the best
of all the all the options they

554
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,000
might be, but we do have to
consider how the landscape is

555
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,680
changing.
We can't, we're not going to

556
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,400
stop that.
There's lots of things now like

557
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,560
AI, the tools that can assess
whether something's been written

558
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,960
by AI or not.
Because of the way AI, it

559
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,960
doesn't actually write in, it
doesn't write in like

560
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,080
characters.
If you know about this, doesn't

561
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:08,960
write in characters and words.
It writes in like tokens, like

562
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,560
symbol.
So you can actually, if you put

563
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,320
something into the right
machine, you can say, oh, this

564
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,320
was clicked, this was generated
by AI because it's not written

565
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,960
in the right way.
But there'll be less ways

566
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,680
around.
It I'm just worried that this

567
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,400
this move benefits people like
me more and more as I was at

568
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,080
school and there are just some
people out there who work so

569
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,160
hard, especially at their
coursework and do really amazing

570
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,000
individual work and show off how
much they know who crumble in

571
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,680
the exam who.
Now that was me.

572
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:34,920
It's even Yeah.
But it's even more that you

573
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,400
crumble both even even more.
There's even more disparity

574
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:38,600
though, because it's like, well,
you could have used AI.

575
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,520
It's like, well, I didn't this
is this is my work.

576
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,240
This is fantastic stuff and I
just don't do well in the exam.

577
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,560
And now we're deciding the exam
is the only way to do it.

578
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:47,920
So it's frustrating.
Yeah, I agree.

579
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,600
There are other ways of having
knowledge and that it should be

580
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:51,360
assessing people.
That's all.

581
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,800
That's all.
I think basically, I just think

582
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,920
we need to be really mindful of
it.

583
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,400
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Let's talk financial literacy

584
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,280
because that was the other part
of these life skills we're

585
00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:59,400
talking about.
Do you want to give us an

586
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,000
overview of what this curriculum
review was talking?

587
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,080
About yeah, another, another
fantastic edition.

588
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,520
I must.
I think this is really good, but

589
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:05,520
we've been saying this for a
long time.

590
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:06,800
What would we add to the
curriculum?

591
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,200
Understanding of finance is
vital and it's crazy when you

592
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,080
think about what do we actually
want functioning members of

593
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,600
society to have a basic
understanding of?

594
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,640
Finding of how their life works.
People have been screaming about

595
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,840
this for years haven't they?
I feel like even when I was at

596
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,400
school, ever since I was at
school up until now, I feel like

597
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,440
I have consistently heard people
saying why are we not teaching

598
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:32,000
children how life works so that
the day they leave school at 18

599
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,600
or whatever they they're not
walking into, they're

600
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,680
blindfolded into life.
Like it's mental.

601
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,240
What are we doing?
Yeah, completely.

602
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,920
The review did not to the fact
that there are parts of

603
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,000
financial kind of literacy and
understanding already in the

604
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,680
curriculum, but they're not
always taught, was the quote.

605
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,400
So there's parts of it and maths
parts of it is citizenship and

606
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,520
it leads to low financial
capability was their point.

607
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,560
So the review recommended making
citizenship, which I thought was

608
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:56,720
interesting.
They're going to put this into

609
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,200
citizenship including financial
education in there part of the

610
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,280
national curriculum at key stage
1 and 2.

611
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,040
So primary school putting into
primary school and furthermore

612
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,920
financial educations.
Main home should be citizenship

613
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,720
for applied concepts, but
relevant mathematical concepts,

614
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,960
percentages, compound interest
etcetera still must be sequenced

615
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,080
in the curriculum in maths
first.

616
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,320
That makes complete sense to me.
Complete sense.

617
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,360
It's, it's the underpinning.
It's literally we're saying make

618
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,880
sure we understand the core
concepts of foundational maths

619
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,560
knowledge underneath financial
literacy so that when we do talk

620
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,920
about the tax system, we're not
then sat there the entire time

621
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:32,760
working out how to find 20% of
something.

622
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,200
It's more like that we know that
from mass civilization.

623
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,440
This is how the taxation system
works in the UK.

624
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,680
Let's compare it to other
countries and then you can have

625
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,000
that.
I actually really agree with it.

626
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,720
Having a home in some kind of
citizenship.

627
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,560
Yeah, because it is.
It's again, it's about society.

628
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,160
It's about have being a
functioning member and an adult

629
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,560
who can understand stuff.
You know, there's always push

630
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,560
back.
Oh, it's just too complicated.

631
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,400
There's a reason kids don't
understand about mortgages or

632
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,520
anything yet, because they don't
need to.

633
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,600
They're too young, etcetera.
And it's, it's like, OK, cool,

634
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,040
but they'll all be taxpayers.
Do you know what I mean?

635
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,560
Most of them will be taxpayers
when they grow up.

636
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,120
A lot of them will get a
mortgage.

637
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,040
So at the very least, what we
need to make really clear is

638
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,360
those key skills and teach them
when in maths and make sure they

639
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:13,160
are taught.
But like, it's obviously a good

640
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,480
thing, right, That you can then
in citizenship go by the way,

641
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,920
you know, this thing we got, we
understood in maths.

642
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,880
This will apply to every human
ever.

643
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,440
When you come to taking a payday
loan, look at I think about

644
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:29,440
payday loans and I think they
are horrible companies like they

645
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,440
they're there to serve a
purpose, which seems quite

646
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,160
noble.
You need some quick cash.

647
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,360
I'll help you out here you go
pay me back over time.

648
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,000
What it ends up being is just
huge interest rates.

649
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,880
Do you know when you see the the
small print on the on the advert

650
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,960
and it's like thousands of
percent APR because it was over

651
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,080
the year and this was about
being short term loans.

652
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,400
I feel like equipping people to
understand what will happen if

653
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,720
they don't pay back those kind
of loans quickly and how it can

654
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,480
cripple you over a smaller.
Compounding interest in the

655
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,640
other wrong way, you know.
Exactly that.

656
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,200
I think that is such a good
thing to be teaching our next

657
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,000
generation.
Just to think you've got to live

658
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,680
within your means, you've got to
balance your budget.

659
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,040
This is what compound interest
actually does and it will do to

660
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,320
you.
It's not some abstract thing in

661
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,240
a maths textbook.
Sure, we've learnt about the

662
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,760
fundamentals, but now let's
apply it and I want you to

663
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,720
understand how actually, when
you get a mortgage and it's 4%

664
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,280
interest compared to 5%
interest, that might not sound

665
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,520
that much, but over the course
of your mortgage you'll be

666
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,280
paying back an extra £80,000.
Yeah, make it real and tangible.

667
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:27,360
For them significant amount
something I didn't even know

668
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:29,200
when I got a when I got a
mortgage myself.

669
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,080
And I you know, looking back, I
think I wish I knew this

670
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,320
beforehand rather than learning
as I as I go was just even what

671
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,880
the percentages mean.
Like the if you know I had a 2

672
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,680
point as low, I had a 2.3%
interest rate.

673
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,760
I had a 1.9 at. 1.9 that's mad
and it's crazy looking back how

674
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,760
I didn't realise how good that
was either, right.

675
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,440
And I didn't know what that
meant.

676
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,760
But you know, I, I wish someone
said to me, oh, that means

677
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,600
that's you take your whole
mortgage amount and you pay that

678
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,600
back every single year.
Someone said that to me, I'd be

679
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:53,960
like, I'd probably be a bit more
shocked.

680
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,960
I was like, oh, wow.
Because I often think if you

681
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,080
never get a short term loan, you
pay 2.3%, you're paying it on

682
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,480
the entire loan.
It's a, you know, you take a

683
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,560
grand out, you're paying back
the extra 2.3% on that grand and

684
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:04,680
you pay it back.
It's in one go.

685
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,520
Whereas with mortgages it's
yeah, you're paying that every

686
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,920
single year and just little
things like that.

687
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,480
I wish I knew like tax bands.
I, I with my year sixes every

688
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,800
single year of my career that
I've had year 6, I've always

689
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,240
blocked out a week post SAS
called money week or whatever.

690
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,960
I end up calling it and we and
I'll do at least one lesson

691
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,840
where we just talk about tax and
how it works.

692
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,120
The I remember being working at
Tesco's, right?

693
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,800
And someone at the employee
there told me it wasn't worth

694
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,240
getting paid any more at a
certain point because then you'd

695
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,440
go into the next tax bracket as
if the, as if you pay that

696
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,920
amount of tax percentage on all
of your money and said then you

697
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,880
get less.
And it was all just completely

698
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,120
wrong.
And I'm like 20 years old at

699
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:43,920
this point.
Haven't I had no clue?

700
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,760
I should have learnt that when I
was 1500.

701
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,240
Percent, 100% and it's like when
you say, oh, I'll tip into the

702
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,640
50% tax.
Well, 40% tax bracket, the

703
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,000
higher threshold.
And it's like, but that's not

704
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,160
40% of everything you are.
Yeah, it's 40% of everything

705
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,560
above that threshold.
So I get it.

706
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,640
Like I understand why you might
think, oh, that's frustrating.

707
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,720
I'm not getting paid as much.
But your, your income is

708
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,400
completely safe up until then
you get 12 1/2 grand that you

709
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,480
never get taxed on no matter
what happens.

710
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,440
So again, if you're at the lower
end and you think, oh, there's

711
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,600
no point in me going to 14 grand
because then I have 20% on 14

712
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,320
grand, I can do the maths.
That's nearly 3 grand that I'll

713
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,160
be, you know, worse off.
I'll have less money than I did

714
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,600
when I had 12.
Grand, that's what they can win,

715
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:22,480
no?
You won't.

716
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,400
Yeah, because the people think,
you know, 14 grand going down

717
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,600
gets you to like 11,200 LB.
Yeah, well, that's less than 12

718
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:29,720
grand when I wasn't getting
taxed.

719
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,640
No, it's 20% on the 2 grand
above.

720
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,480
Stuff like that.
Just understanding that is

721
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,680
vital.
I always come back to student

722
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,640
loan, you know, again, the
financial literacy to at least

723
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:40,960
understand what you're embarking
on.

724
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,400
I'm not saying it would mean
that people wouldn't do it, but

725
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,640
maybe it would make people more
picky about what subjects they

726
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:46,960
do.
Maybe it would make people

727
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,120
think, do I definitely want to
do this because it essentially

728
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,720
turns into a youth tax.
You're never going to pay back

729
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,680
your student loan.
You're going to do above a

730
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,880
certain amount, which is great.
Only when you can afford to pay

731
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,480
it back do you pay it back, but
you end up just spending

732
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:00,840
interest.
It's just interest.

733
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,040
If you look at your student loan
right now, I can guarantee you

734
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,400
that you what you owe is more
now than what you actually took

735
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:10,680
out.
Well, here's an example for you.

736
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,200
So Lauren, I've been with Lauren
for nearly eight years and we've

737
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,720
both been teachers that whole
time and teaching, by the way.

738
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,360
Which you need a a degree for
you.

739
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,160
Have to do this.
So you've got to do this bit.

740
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,200
It's non negotiable, right?
So she did the three-year course

741
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,280
at university.
It was when fees are around

742
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,840
£9000 per year.
She stayed at home but her.

743
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,360
So in the whole time I've known
Lauren, we've checked probably

744
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,600
five times in this period of
time because it's depressing.

745
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,240
Despite her paying back the
entire time as well because

746
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,560
she's been over the earnings
threshold.

747
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,560
So she pays 9% of her income
over this threshold back to

748
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,280
student loans.
Her debt has gone up in the

749
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,080
entire like 7 years.
It's like over 50 grand or

750
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:46,960
something now.
It's ridiculous.

751
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,360
And she's been paying back
constantly monthly for like 6-7

752
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,680
years now and it's gone up so.
It's just a tax.

753
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,520
It is a tax because the
repayments don't, don't, aren't

754
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,680
higher than the interest.
So the interest rate on the loan

755
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,000
was bigger.
Yeah, I know.

756
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,960
When I went to university, I had
no clue about any of this stuff.

757
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,560
No one told me anything.
They just said, yeah, you just

758
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:05,880
get a student loan.
That's the only way you can do

759
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,440
it, Simple as that.
It was like, do you want to go

760
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,240
to uni or not?
The answer was yes.

761
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:10,280
The rest of it is nothing left
out.

762
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's it.

763
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,280
Cool.
You go to uni then you just do

764
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,800
it.
You just click these few things

765
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,120
here, you get your parents to
help you with this and then,

766
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,840
well, you do mate.
Not everyone, no.

767
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,440
I didn't like like fill in the
forms for you.

768
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,840
But yeah, not everyone.
And then and then you go and

769
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,280
then suddenly there's money in
your account.

770
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,000
And then five years later, you
go.

771
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,760
I see.
A lot of people say it's, you

772
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,160
know, it's the.
It's the best loan you can take

773
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,840
out because you only pay about
when you can afford to and all

774
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,200
that stuff.
Martin Lewis is always the

775
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,760
person I see saying it's still a
good deal if you want to go to

776
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,160
uni.
It's better that it's like this

777
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,040
than a different way of
borrowing money.

778
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,760
There's a time.
Where you don't have to pay it

779
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,240
back exactly.
You can only pay it back when

780
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,120
you.
Afford it and it's only a

781
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,520
certain amount, so and, and at
the end it gets wiped off.

782
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,400
But that time's creeping up, you
know, 35 years now.

783
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,480
It's ages.
So yeah, I think again, coming

784
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,240
back to financial literacy, it'd
be very interesting to see the

785
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,920
specifics of what ends up being
talked about in here.

786
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,000
But I do think it's very good
and is exactly what we should be

787
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,840
thinking about.
What's the role of school?

788
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,000
OK, If I were to think about
what every child needs, this is

789
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,640
almost top of the list.
Be prepared to live in the.

790
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,480
Community.
It's probably right at the top,

791
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,040
isn't it really Exactly exactly
that?

792
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,680
Let's get to the big one.
Very interested in this ORC.

793
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,680
I think this is vital.
I love, I love the, you know,

794
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,880
the, the focus on this.
I think it's fantastic.

795
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,280
I as someone who I think
benefits a lot from what we can

796
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,400
call ORC and, and being able to
speak and, you know, we're doing

797
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,200
a podcast right now, like what's
more ORC than this?

798
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,560
But I, I look back at school and
it really helped my confidence.

799
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:41,960
It really helped my
understanding.

800
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,880
There was nothing bad about
speaking more, and I think the

801
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,040
way they've put brought this in
and the way they're going to

802
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,800
link it with the reading and
writing framework as well and

803
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,760
have ORC framework almost like a
third pillar, I think it's

804
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,440
absolutely the way to go about
it and I'm really, really

805
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,720
excited for this.
It's essential and a big part.

806
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,360
Of ORC is listening, which I
think is equally listening.

807
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,800
I know you're listening.
You missed out on that bit mate.

808
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,960
I just, I just wanted to talk.
You learned how to talk.

809
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,800
That was it.
But it's speaking and listening.

810
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,400
I just talk.
Isn't it, though?

811
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:12,560
It's both.
Yeah.

812
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,640
And if you think about kids now,
and I'm going to sound really

813
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,680
boomerish here.
Oh, here we go.

814
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,160
But if you think about.
Kids a bite ready this

815
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,200
generation you think about.
Behaviour and how it's changed

816
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,640
over the last couple of decades.
I do wonder how much of that is

817
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,240
down to just really bad
communication skills, just poor

818
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,760
communication skills.
We're not teaching oracy.

819
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,520
We're not teaching speaking and
listening like we're used to.

820
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,840
Really teaching it as in like,
this is how you do it.

821
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,160
Kids are getting into Year 6 and
they just don't know how to

822
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,240
listen.
They don't know how to do it.

823
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,880
How many times, honestly?
With a child, have you like

824
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,560
tried to have a conversation
with them and very quickly

825
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,480
realised that it's not a
conversation.

826
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,560
It's not a conversation because
there is no back and forth.

827
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,280
We've joked about it before, but
there is no kind of listening.

828
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,280
And don't get me wrong, a lot of
children are great.

829
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,120
You have a conversation with
them, but they very much are

830
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,360
like, I want to say this thing
to you.

831
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:00,880
They're just waiting.
I want to say this thing to you,

832
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:01,600
right?
Now I want.

833
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,200
To say this thing to you right
now, this second, because

834
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:04,800
they've learned politeness.
They've learned.

835
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,200
To be quiet until you.
Stop speaking.

836
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,960
And they'll be like, yeah, I
went to the thing at the weekend

837
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,600
and it's like, OK, we need to
work on this.

838
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,320
We can't just hope it fixes
itself.

839
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,560
Yeah.
Because again, if you go on the

840
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,400
playground, they'll be the odd
child who dominates

841
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,320
conversation, the odd child who
leads the way.

842
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,720
And other children just aren't
really listened to and there's

843
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,520
no back and forth.
Yeah, I agree.

844
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:24,160
So I'm.
I'm.

845
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,760
Really excited for this bit of
framework.

846
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,960
Definitely.
It does kind of make me think

847
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,160
about maybe the next point we
talk about, which is it's

848
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,360
another thing.
It's another thing to add in,

849
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:34,560
you know, I mean, we're talking
about the.

850
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:35,920
Yeah, we'll get to that,
definitely.

851
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,280
But yeah, I think.
It's really good.

852
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,160
I can't see this being bad.
I honestly can't think of a

853
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:41,200
negative.
I can't even think of what

854
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,760
someone might think is a
negative of this genuinely.

855
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,120
Like it's surely it's just a
good thing.

856
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:45,800
I think so.
And when you think about.

857
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,120
The, the, the point people
always make to me is, and I

858
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,240
can't argue this is when people
say, how on earth can we expect

859
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,280
children to write in full
sentences that make sense if

860
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,160
they literally can't speak in
full sentences that makes sense?

861
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,800
There is a clear progression in
my head, which is you have to be

862
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,520
able to say it and do it before
you can then think about writing

863
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:06,920
it on paper.
It's like when you get that kid.

864
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,360
I've heard this.
Phrase so many times in my

865
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,760
career.
Oh, they just stop.

866
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,600
You're writing down like a
stream of consciousness.

867
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,520
What is that thing?
Stream of consciousness.

868
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:15,440
You're not thinking about your
grammar function.

869
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:16,960
Yeah, you're just writing.
Down and I'm like, yeah, now

870
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,719
listen.
To them talk, they talk like

871
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,719
that.
What do you expect them when you

872
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,679
say to them stop writing down
like a stream of consciousness?

873
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,760
Think about it.
Yeah, mate, they are thinking

874
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,199
about it.
That's how they speak in real

875
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:27,719
life.
They've not had any training on

876
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,400
Orac.
Like they they genuinely are

877
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,719
writing like that because they
don't know how to talk to you.

878
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,280
Yeah, completely.
It's so.

879
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,840
True.
And yeah, the proof's in the

880
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,360
pudding.
Writing is so hard.

881
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,960
It's so hard.
And I, I look at it and I just

882
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,719
think there'll be a few people
maybe who look at this and and

883
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,800
go, oh, we're taken away from
the tricky stuff.

884
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,600
I have to spend more time
writing with my kids because

885
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,400
they find it so tricky.
I talk to my kids all the time,

886
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,840
but ORC isn't just talking.
No, in the same way writing

887
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,080
isn't just doodling.
It's very specific.

888
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,200
And what I like about this is
it's being really clear of what

889
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,560
ORC should look like.
It's communication.

890
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,240
It is speaking, it is listening,
but it comes down to that word

891
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,200
communication.
For me, that encapsulates

892
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,480
everything, right?
It's about understanding how to

893
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,920
say things out loud, how to have
a backwards and forwards, and

894
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,200
how to understand other people.
It's a whole framework.

895
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,960
I'm really excited, honestly for
it to come in and hopefully have

896
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,920
that kind of push where teachers
aren't then thinking, oh, I'm

897
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,320
wasting my time doing this.
This is a lovely thing to do,

898
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,000
but this curriculum is just too
much.

899
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,760
It's just important that
potential push back there is.

900
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,080
Is a bit like to me someone
coming in and saying, look, we

901
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,080
need to do loads of writing that
10 minutes of model writing that

902
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,560
you do get rid of it because we
just need the kids to have a bit

903
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,560
more time writing, need to write
more.

904
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:37,480
It doesn't make.
Sense it's like, no, no, that

905
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,080
10.
Minutes of of model writing is

906
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,080
absolutely essential to them
being successful.

907
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,760
It's worth taking away 10
minutes of their independent

908
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,480
writing because they will become
better writers quicker.

909
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,120
It's worth it.
It's an investment.

910
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,080
You're investing 10 minutes, but
you're getting way more than 10

911
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,080
minutes gain out of that
compared to if they just had 10

912
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,240
minutes writing without it.
Yeah, the same authority.

913
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:54,800
It's going to be the same.
People just need to, we just

914
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:55,880
need to get our heads around it,
I think.

915
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,840
Absolutely, definitely agree.
There's one thing that jumped

916
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,800
out before we talk about the
whole, you know, elephant in the

917
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,240
room, this whole thing about how
we're going to do all of this.

918
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,640
There was just one thing I did
quickly want to mention which

919
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,240
piqued my interest in a lot of
people was the GPS.

920
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:11,920
Test at the end of key stage 2
and the idea that it's going to

921
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,000
be replaced.
So I'll I'll read you the quote.

922
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,000
We recommend replacing the
existing GPS test with an

923
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,440
amended version.
This should retain those

924
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,160
elements of current test that
encourage effective teaching and

925
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,480
a separate spelling element, and
it should integrate short

926
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,240
composition tasks.
This should encourage a more

927
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:31,800
proportionate and applied
approach to learning grammar,

928
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,920
punctuation and spelling whilst
developing good writing

929
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,680
capabilities.
Initial thoughts?

930
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,080
My initial thoughts are this
could be really good.

931
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,360
And it could be really bad.
Genuinely, I think this is one

932
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,080
of those ones where I'm like,
this has got to be the right

933
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,360
people doing this.
It feels like when I read that,

934
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,520
it feels like that's come from a
good place.

935
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,360
And it feels like experts are
saying this is what we need to

936
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,240
do.
But just from my life

937
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,160
experience, sometimes experts
can be really heavily involved

938
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,080
in the initial concepts of
things, and then they're not so

939
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,960
involved later on.
And actually, it gets completely

940
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,080
blown out of, oh, we're going to
do it differently now.

941
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:03,800
It's like when someone adapts a
game to become a film and they

942
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,560
just missed the entire point.
It's the idea of the concept was

943
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:07,680
great.
Went to a game instead of a

944
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:08,320
book.
Yeah, I know.

945
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:09,600
I.
Famously make a book because I.

946
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,200
Because yesterday I started
watching The Witcher and I know

947
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:13,960
that there was loads of
controversy around the new

948
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,320
season.
And here's where I break it to

949
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,040
you that The Witcher is a book.
First and foremost.

950
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,720
OK, All right.
Is it a book before a game?

951
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:21,560
Yeah.
Oh, OK, I thought it was a game,

952
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,520
then a then a book.
Well, we'll find it.

953
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:24,680
Fake news.
Why don't?

954
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,880
You find out yourself.
Instead of just listening to

955
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,640
podcast Bros talk about stuff,
why don't you go find it

956
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,160
yourself guys?
Which one do you think plays

957
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:33,200
games?
Which one do you think reads?

958
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,160
Here we go.
Leave a comment on If you're

959
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:37,920
listening to Spotify, leave a
comment down below.

960
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,560
Was The Witcher either a book or
a game first?

961
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,520
We'll find out, Yeah.
And which one's better?

962
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:45,360
But no, only play the game.
Didn't read the book or?

963
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,560
Didn't read the book, watch it,
or play the game even.

964
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,960
Made into a film was made in TV
shows.

965
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,280
But anyway, just explain that
that's where my.

966
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,360
Analogy came from but look back
to the point Dylan.

967
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,080
Ultimately, I think this
probably will be a good thing.

968
00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:59,200
I was just saying there's a risk
to it.

969
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,800
It will be a good thing.
I think the current GPS

970
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,640
framework is moaned about a lot.
It's it's absolutely mad how

971
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,120
much the kids just have to know.
It's just tick boxes tick the

972
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,720
front of the mobile tick tick
this tick that.

973
00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:10,200
No context.
That's what I don't like about

974
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:11,360
it.
Realistically, why do we learn

975
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,440
GPS is so we.
Can apply it to our writing, so

976
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,400
the idea of maybe making it a
bit more applied towards

977
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,600
writing, probably a move in the
right direction.

978
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,240
I think it's great.
We talk about like, you know.

979
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,400
Actually going to some kind of
short composition task, I can

980
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,960
imagine it's something like, you
know, continue this

981
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,840
conversation.
There's a conversation between 2

982
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,600
characters and someone else says
something and you've got to

983
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,160
write it in that.
That's fantastic use of it.

984
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,720
Maybe it's, you know, just just
some context where it's like in

985
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:37,360
the next passage use, use
expanded noun phrases to

986
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,640
describe this picture and
there's a picture of a tree and

987
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,280
that that kind of idea.
I think that's a good thing

988
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,240
because you can get so many
different bits of punctuation.

989
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:45,360
And grammar and composition out
of that.

990
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,280
Like I like, I really like the
idea of the writing task because

991
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,160
rather than rather than saying
to a kid, put the speech marks

992
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,080
in the right place in this
sentence, just get them to write

993
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,160
a bit of dialogue right.
Then you can test 7 things at

994
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,000
once in terms of how well they
understand how to write

995
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,480
dialogue.
Might be harder to mark

996
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,680
genuinely NSS but.
But I just think it's OK, cool.

997
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,360
It's better for the kids though,
and more realistic, I can tell.

998
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,520
You right now I have taught kids
every single year of my career

999
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,800
that can ace Agps test because
they can they can learn the

1000
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,520
superficial knowledge enough to
know where to know where to put

1001
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,040
the speech marks when they're
being told to put it into

1002
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,120
sentence.
But will they use it in their

1003
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,640
own independent writing?
No, right.

1004
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,440
That's a big difference to me.
Like you can tick tick that box,

1005
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:19,600
but you can't actually do it in
the thing.

1006
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,760
The only thing that actually
matters and we we just spent a

1007
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,080
lot of time I'm talking about.
How writing is really hard OK,

1008
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:29,080
but but This is why what this
might do if this becomes the way

1009
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,440
we're assessing GPS, right.
What I'd like about what might

1010
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,440
happen as a result is the way
it's taught will change that

1011
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,720
that's what I'm thinking all the
time that's what I think all the

1012
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:42,160
time the amount of time is just
I hated the kinds of lessons,

1013
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,040
especially in upper key stage 2
you'd end up having to do

1014
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,680
because you knew the GPS test
was coming but for goodness me,

1015
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:47,960
do you know what it's much more
better.

1016
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,720
It's just within my writing
lessons already I'll have short

1017
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:54,280
sharp tasks that say, look what
what can like, continue this

1018
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,800
conversation and stuff, have a
dialogue the the kinds of stuff

1019
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,360
where children can be
imaginative and enjoy their

1020
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,360
writing and still apply all this
stuff.

1021
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:03,040
That's the ultimate version.
I agree.

1022
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,680
Was there anything more boring
than teaching a kid?

1023
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,960
A whole lesson on prepositions.
No, we give them a picture and

1024
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,280
they just have to describe where
things are.

1025
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:08,720
Can.
Yeah.

1026
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:09,400
Other things.
Yeah.

1027
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,200
That was actually determinism.
Oh God.

1028
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:13,160
Even worse, but it's.
Boring as hell, isn't it?

1029
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,280
Just integrate it into writing
and how often, right?

1030
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,200
What kid doesn't put a
determiner in?

1031
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,640
Honestly, what kid isn't putting
out before the thing?

1032
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,960
Do they really need to know what
it is?

1033
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,440
What did you know that 7 is
actually a determiner?

1034
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,400
Because it's determining how
many I Does that care?

1035
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,320
Hilariously, is the like the
opposite version of.

1036
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,200
You know, I just did the speech
one where a kid, Yeah, easy.

1037
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,840
In a GPS test, they can't put
speech in it.

1038
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:34,960
Determiner.
They can.

1039
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,600
They can let you can teach them
a determiner.

1040
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:37,280
Sorry.
You can.

1041
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,800
You can get them to use it in
their writing really easily, but

1042
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,040
the struggle to teach them what
a determiner is for the test, so

1043
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,640
they get it wrong in the GPS
test or they don't know what

1044
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,600
determiners are.
Well, they do because they're

1045
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,320
using them in their writing
since they were four.

1046
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,160
And what's more important, the
fact they use them.

1047
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,440
Correctly.
Or they can identify the name of

1048
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:52,640
a thing.
Yeah, it's like, come on.

1049
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,200
My goodness.
Balance is off, so I'm glad, I'm

1050
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,440
glad they're reviewing this in
general because the balance is

1051
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,960
off and it needs to need some
looking at.

1052
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,800
Definitely right.
I want to finish.

1053
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,880
Off with talking about, you
know, it being manageable and

1054
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,200
the elephant in the room and
assessing being negative for a

1055
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,320
bit.
But before I do, as always, I've

1056
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,320
probably forgotten something.
Is there something that jumped

1057
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,200
in you've forgotten?
Possibly the?

1058
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,720
Thing that interests us most,
which is maths, which we decided

1059
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:16,920
we had it at #1 we were like,
we'll talk about maths midway

1060
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,120
through and you forgot about it,
right?

1061
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,440
God, we've always talked about
maths.

1062
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,240
Right, go on.
OK, fluency, right, it's it's to

1063
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:23,400
do with fluency and obviously
we.

1064
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,880
Talk about maths all the time,
but it's really important to

1065
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,400
platform.
We have to be building on

1066
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,680
fluency, sorry very quickly
right when the when the review

1067
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,400
come out.
And and you read it.

1068
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,240
Did you not think that we could
have written this?

1069
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:37,600
I messaged you, didn't I?
And I?

1070
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,520
Screenshot of 1.
Particular paragraph and I said

1071
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,920
I feel very vindicated right now
because I was like, I feel like

1072
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,560
we've written this because this
is what we're passionate about

1073
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,360
and have been for years.
We're finally in the position

1074
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,480
where we can do something about
it.

1075
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,960
But we have for years and years
and years felt extremely

1076
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:54,000
passionately about fluency in
maths and how it is essential

1077
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,480
and underpins all of maths
knowledge.

1078
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,480
And you know, you, it's just the
foundations to your house and

1079
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,160
not to say it's been left
behind, but maybe it's just not

1080
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,880
in the, in the limelight as much
as it should be.

1081
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,320
And some things have started to
slip.

1082
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,880
Maybe a bit of mental arithmetic
started to slip, You know, just

1083
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,040
that fluency of number, it
started to slip a little bit.

1084
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,200
Maybe even just the methods of
arithmetic.

1085
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:12,800
People think, ah, I don't teach
in different ways.

1086
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,360
It's just, we'll just get
through it quickly to get the

1087
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,000
reasoning.
It's all kind of slipping.

1088
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,120
And we've noticed that, which is
why we're building our maths,

1089
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,640
our new platform, definitely.
But seeing come up on this, I

1090
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,320
was like, well, well, well,
well, this is, this is

1091
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:24,480
brilliant.
It's it's.

1092
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,000
Just it just summarises
everything we said.

1093
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:29,920
The review talked about a
stronger focus on developing

1094
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,800
fluency, particularly for the
younger children, particularly

1095
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,840
for children even in early years
or year one and year 2,

1096
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,240
etcetera, of understanding
number and being able to

1097
00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:40,120
manipulate it because because
that's your foundation.

1098
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,920
And furthermore, in terms of
fluency, in terms of children

1099
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,960
being able to do mental maths,
to be able to do processes

1100
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,240
confidently, accurately all the
time.

1101
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,920
And what I loved about it was it
just drew a line.

1102
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,280
It had a piece of string
between.

1103
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,360
It wasn't just saying, oh just
this because it was saying

1104
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,200
because this allows in key stage
2, especially for better

1105
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,080
reasoning and better problem
solving, you have to get the

1106
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,040
foundations right.
And I thought to myself, this is

1107
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,120
what we need to hear because we
want to get it right.

1108
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,680
Kids have to be able to do the
maths.

1109
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,760
It's not at the detriment, it's
to enable everything else.

1110
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,960
It's not just saying that's just
practise arithmetic all lesson

1111
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,880
every single day.
It's saying do short, sharp

1112
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,640
often, do best, do things you've
done before, practise new

1113
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,200
things, fill those gaps because
then when you come on to your

1114
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:32,440
lesson, you can get to that
quality reasoning task, that

1115
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,880
amazing problem solving task
because your children are

1116
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,880
proficient and good at the
basics.

1117
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,720
It's just, it was a breath of
fresh air reading it #1 because

1118
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:42,200
it's just fundamentally what we
believe in.

1119
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,120
But #2 because I really think
now this platform we're

1120
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,440
building, starting off with a
ripertic, moving into fluency in

1121
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,200
general, having something for
early years and and younger

1122
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:51,960
children to really understand
number.

1123
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,360
It's all coming together.
And #3 don't forget is that

1124
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:55,320
we're fundamentally.
Right.

1125
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,760
So we fundamentally agree with
it because we're fundamentally,

1126
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,520
right.
OK, it's really important.

1127
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,160
And this and this, like I said,
vindicates.

1128
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:02,720
But don't you think, when you're
reading it?

1129
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,360
Almost all way through,
genuinely not not being big

1130
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,120
headed now, but hopefully all
the teachers out there feel the

1131
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,640
same way where one thing after
another.

1132
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,800
I was thinking, yes, yes, this
is what we think.

1133
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,600
This is what we agree.
So my, my, my big thing now is

1134
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,280
watching what the government do
to implement it.

1135
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,360
Yeah, they they've, they've
accepted a lot.

1136
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,520
But I look at it and I think, do
you know what?

1137
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,880
This could be done really well.
There's one thing.

1138
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,160
How are we going to fill all
this in?

1139
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,800
This is all fantastic.
We talk about bloat.

1140
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,720
This is what we're really going
to focus on now is actually OK,

1141
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,120
you know, how are we going to
make it manageable?

1142
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,560
I was pleased to read that it
directly referenced this in the

1143
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,640
actual review itself, so I want
to read you this quote.

1144
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,120
We recommend that the government
involve teachers in the testing

1145
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,040
and design of programmes of
study as part of the drafting

1146
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,040
process.
This must take into

1147
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,160
consideration the curriculum
time that is available, ensuring

1148
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,240
the national curriculum is
ambitious but teachable within a

1149
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,120
typical school day.
Well, we've already learned,

1150
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,080
haven't we, The National?
Curriculum was already designed

1151
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,960
to leave extra time and it
doesn't, so I hope they don't

1152
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,920
use the existing framework of
thinking that's true.

1153
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,160
In terms of like most cases it
is, and I'm sure some people are

1154
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,440
doing it fine.
In most cases, that is not true.

1155
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:12,840
This curriculum's already very
bloated.

1156
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:14,680
I hope they take that into
consideration.

1157
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,280
That'll be my only worry is that
they go well.

1158
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,560
The curriculum's already got a
bit of space for women, so we're

1159
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,320
just going to take out a little
bit and replace it here and

1160
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,240
think, actually it's just as bad
as before.

1161
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,200
This is where we see, I think,
the difference.

1162
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,320
Between what the review is
saying and what the government

1163
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,040
might do.
So the review is saying it's

1164
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,440
really important we do this.
The review also talked about

1165
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,760
kind of just almost rejigging
the order that you learned to

1166
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,840
learn things.
It talked about not repeating

1167
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,240
stuff as much and maybe pushing
it further down the line.

1168
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,520
So having a more streamlined
approach lower down to focus on

1169
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,080
stuff.
It directly mentioned

1170
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,920
introducing too much too soon.
That's fantastic as well.

1171
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,480
So hopefully what we see is just
in general stuff just moving

1172
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,240
down the line a bit just to get
really solid talking about the

1173
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,320
math example, but now approach
for everything, getting the

1174
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,920
foundations right and not having
to feel like we're rushing

1175
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,880
through stuff.
That's vital.

1176
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,160
But re digging it alone is
great.

1177
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,320
Introducing all the Orac
framework, the extra bits and

1178
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,000
bobs, it's going to be a
balancing act I think to not

1179
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,360
just re jig it to this room and
then fill up again with all this

1180
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:11,240
new stuff.
Absolutely right.

1181
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,480
We just have to get it right.
We.

1182
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,760
Have to prototise.
We have to not be scared to say

1183
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,680
we can't do this now we can do
XYZ, but it's because we're

1184
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,880
going to drop ABC.
Yeah, I, I agree.

1185
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:22,880
I thought it was.
Particularly interesting in the

1186
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,200
resequencing bit, by the way,
particularly interesting when it

1187
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,320
talked about maths, because to
me, maybe I'm wrong here, but

1188
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,200
when the National Quicken came
in, in the in the mid 2010,

1189
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,440
2014, whenever it was written,
the whole maths mastery approach

1190
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,520
that came in was very much about
resequencing maths in my

1191
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,640
opinion, from the away from the
kind of traditional spiral

1192
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,480
curriculum where it was like
lots of bits of maths everywhere

1193
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,360
into this kind of block
approach.

1194
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:48,040
And I feel like that's already
been pretty well optimised.

1195
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,200
So to me, the resequencing bit
when it comes to maths is less

1196
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,160
prevalent.
And I, I see this as, yeah, I

1197
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,200
think so because I think it's
already pretty well sequenced.

1198
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:56,400
I think, I think there's too
much.

1199
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:57,600
I think the problem is it's too
much.

1200
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,040
So I think, I think it's a case
of just taking things out and

1201
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,920
pushing it up into key stage 3
perhaps and not necessarily

1202
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,560
resequencing it in terms I guess
you're kind of resequencing it.

1203
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,120
But to me means like moving
things around.

1204
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:08,320
I see.
To me it's like, no, just take

1205
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:09,480
some things out and then kind of
leave it.

1206
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,200
That's what they mean.
I've got to.

1207
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,960
Read it for master if you
recommends resequencing content

1208
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,960
so topics are introduced in such
a way that pupils can master

1209
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,560
them deeply and allowing
opportunities for more complex

1210
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,480
problem solving.
As long as it's embedded in

1211
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,880
that, I think that's good.
Yeah, I guess I was.

1212
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,280
I was a bit friend of like.
People's, people's can master

1213
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:27,400
them deeply.
I'm like, well, that's kind of

1214
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:28,480
what we did for the last 10
years.

1215
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,800
But do you think it's happening?
I don't I completely.

1216
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,240
I completely reject that that
that is happening because I

1217
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:34,880
don't think you might master
stuff quickly enough.

1218
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,040
I think if you look at, for
example, year one and two, you

1219
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,320
know, a lot of time is spent on
like number bonds and basic

1220
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:41,760
fluency.
I feel like as you go through

1221
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,600
school, there's absolutely
points in my career, and I'm

1222
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,880
going to say it right now.
This is very interesting reading

1223
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,960
this because I've received some
pushback where I've said I'm not

1224
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:51,480
teaching my kid that.
Yeah, right.

1225
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:52,520
I'm not.
I'm not teaching them that right

1226
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,360
now because you know what they
need to be able to do?

1227
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,240
Add in some tracks, spend a bit
longer, multiply and divide.

1228
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,760
Understand, you know, how number
works, be able to break up a

1229
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,840
number that in terms of an
ability to master that is more

1230
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,040
important right now than me
introducing what a heptagon is,

1231
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:08,920
right?
So I'm, I'm that's just an

1232
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,480
example.
It could be anything, but there,

1233
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,360
there'll be sometimes where I
think, you know what, there is

1234
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,080
just a hierarchy here and you
know, you understanding what a

1235
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,120
few shapes are called in year 8
instead of year 4.

1236
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,360
And I'm genuinely talking about
that much time now.

1237
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,160
Yeah.
As a professional, I'm like, do

1238
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,760
you know what's more use of your
time now?

1239
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,360
Being able to manipulate number
and understand and bridge 10

1240
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,240
mentally and be able to do all
these things that is more vital.

1241
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:32,840
So I'm already doing that.
Yeah.

1242
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,120
And there would have been push
back which says, well, in this

1243
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,560
curriculum it says in year 4 you
have to do all these shape.

1244
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,600
I'm hoping the resequencing is
basically saying don't worry too

1245
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,360
much about this stuff.
There is there really it's OK to

1246
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,320
say there is, you know, a
pedestal here, these are on the

1247
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,320
top.
Then it's this, then it's that

1248
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,800
if you're not mastering this,
you can have less time on that

1249
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,640
on the lower and that's OK.
And it could be a different

1250
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,440
topic of maths.
I just think that's a number

1251
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:59,680
fluency is at the top of that
isn't?

1252
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,240
It that's basically it is on a
pedestal.

1253
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:02,520
Exactly.
And funny enough, I was having a

1254
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,120
conversation everyday with John,
who is our software engineer,

1255
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,520
who's working on our app with
us, our software and our maths

1256
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,920
platform, our maths platform,
our maths platform, Maths.

1257
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,400
You should get in touch, by the
way, if you're a, if you're a

1258
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,560
maths leader, if you're a maths
leader or leadership and won.

1259
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,880
The sole fluency and arithmetic
in your school get in touch

1260
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,200
we'll.
Book a demo in in the new year.

1261
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,320
But I was talking to him and we
were literally talking about

1262
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,320
this exact thing about
resequencing and, and just

1263
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,000
genuinely moving things up and
saying how there are double

1264
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,280
benefits sometimes.
Not only does it just the

1265
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,880
physical moving of like, you
know, like shape, whatever,

1266
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,040
moving it up just makes that
extra week in the one you're

1267
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,040
doing.
Also, when you're older, you

1268
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,120
tend to learn things quicker.
That's there are some things

1269
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,000
where it's like you're going to
learn it anyway.

1270
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,680
It's just a bit of knowledge at
this point.

1271
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,880
Rather than spending three weeks
learning it when you have 5 and

1272
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,840
it's really hard concept to
grasp, just spend half an hour

1273
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,440
learning it when you're 12.
Yeah, genuinely, because then

1274
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,440
you actually the difference in
time, then you've brought all of

1275
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,600
that back and if you become
fluent.

1276
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,880
In understanding the basics, if
you spend like an extra 5 hours

1277
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,760
on that, let's say, it does save
you time like because you're,

1278
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,560
oh, I get how number one, now I
understand the link between this

1279
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,160
and that.
Oh, I've really let my times

1280
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,120
tables and I understand, you
know at a fundamental level how

1281
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:11,280
these numbers interact with each
other.

1282
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,960
Me understanding this fraction
question now is like a piece of

1283
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,440
cake rather than trying to force
it in.

1284
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,120
There are lots.
Of compounding passive effects

1285
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,880
that are like positive effects
that are hard to put down and

1286
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,800
hard to say tangibly this is
going to happen.

1287
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,680
But we do recognise that of
course, that analogy you gave

1288
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,040
there will happen if you spend
longer on the foundations.

1289
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:29,920
This is a big thing, I think,
education in general.

1290
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,960
A big task we've got is to
convince the public who see

1291
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,400
themselves as, as you know,
stakeholders in education,

1292
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,760
rightfully their own children go
there, they went for education

1293
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,840
as well.
We've got to be able to convince

1294
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,960
them meaningfully that it's OK
to do less.

1295
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,880
Sometimes it's OK to focus on
less more, if that makes any

1296
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,200
sense.
Yeah, but with more in.

1297
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,400
Depth.
Because in the long run it pays

1298
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:52,840
off.
That's tricky.

1299
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,680
And I can understand why
governments are reluctant to say

1300
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,000
we're taking this out.
There's there's a reason why the

1301
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,360
headline is always we're adding
Orsi framework, we're adding in

1302
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:00,360
Richmond, we're going to have
more.

1303
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,320
There was a big thing about
creative subjects we never got

1304
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,480
into today, about music, about
the arts, all of this stuff.

1305
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,560
There's a reason that sells is
because it sounds great that

1306
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,840
we're doing more.
We just have to and I don't mind

1307
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,880
being that voice when someone
online moans about being

1308
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,720
negative.
We have to be realistic is what

1309
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:16,640
I call it and just say, look,
OK.

1310
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,520
This doesn't mean though
something has to give it

1311
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,320
mentioned it in the review.
I hope that happens.

1312
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,040
Absolutely.
There was one final thing I'll

1313
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:23,920
say.
The last thing, we'll leave it

1314
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,720
on this, that was in the cricket
for that, which I thought was

1315
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:27,520
really hilarious, and it
literally said that if you

1316
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,480
really enjoy Teaching Repeats
podcast, you should leave a

1317
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,520
review and you should share it
with a friend.

1318
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,720
It genuinely said that, yeah,
you were absolutely calculated

1319
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:35,560
by that.
Really really really really

1320
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:35,880
this.
Is it?

1321
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:36,800
Yeah.
I couldn't believe.

1322
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,080
It I thought, wow, what a nice
shout out to it.

1323
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:39,680
And do you know the official,
the real name of it was it?

1324
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,760
Wasn't the curriculum review, It
was leave, teach, seek, repeat

1325
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,040
review.
That's what it was called.

1326
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:44,840
The whole the actual article was
called that, isn't it?

1327
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,200
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's fascinating that.

1328
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:47,440
Yeah, but you?
Definitely should do that and

1329
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,440
follow.
And get your friends to leave us

1330
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,720
reviews as well, because you
know, why not just send it to

1331
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:52,880
your mum?
Yeah, send it to someone.

1332
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,320
Just leave review for these guys
with you.

1333
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:55,240
They're.
Desperate.

1334
00:51:55,240 --> 00:51:57,400
They're good.
Guys, they're desperate.

1335
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,440
They're desperate.
Leave my review, just help.

1336
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:00,800
Out your Christmas gift.
They're pathetic.

1337
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:01,840
Actually, Christmas is coming
up.

1338
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:02,720
Yeah.
Jim, when we.

1339
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:04,000
Started asking for this kind of
stuff.

1340
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:05,200
We were like, Oh no, we can't be
too.

1341
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,200
Please, please come on.
We need to.

1342
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,680
Make it big, guys.
Make it.

1343
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,880
I'll be in Hollywood next year.
I hope you found it useful,

1344
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:17,440
Hayden.
Yeah.

1345
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,680
You're gonna.
No, no, no.

1346
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:21,240
I've got something to say.
Come TuneIn.

1347
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:22,520
To our next episode in two days
time.

1348
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,680
We'll yeah, there we go.
Where we'll be you.

1349
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,520
Know guys, we have questions and
answers.

1350
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:27,880
Bye.