Ep 98: Have We Overcomplicated Teaching? Why Simplicity Is Key

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Hello, everyone.
Welcome back to another episode

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of Teach the Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name is

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Hayden.
How you doing, Hayden?

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I'm all right.
You want to have a little.

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I'm all right.
I don't know.

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I feel like the mic.
No, no, don't.

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You're going to take the mic.
This is a safe space.

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Is it?
Unless it's about the clothes

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you wear.
Sorry, hang on.

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Every single time.
It's funny because this is my

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house and every single time I'm
wearing something you seem to

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wear the same so.
Yeah, it's weird.

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Maybe you're inspired by me, But
anyway.

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It makes me think I need to
change what I'm wearing.

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Oh, I look quite similar to that
guy.

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Normally we start off with a
nice cheerful hello, how you

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doing everyone?
And then we talk about how

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everyone should be, you know,
rating the podcast because we've

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got a lot of brand new
listeners.

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So they should maybe give us a
five star review, be really

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helpful, share the podcast,
etcetera.

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But you wanted to cut through
all.

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That yeah, I don't think we
should do that today.

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OK, now sure it's not.
Shouldn't ask the viewers to do

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all that lovely stuff for.
Us.

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No.
I think we asked them a lot to

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rate US on Spotify and iTunes.
ITunes.

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We can tell who's the one who
doesn't be asking.

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This guy, he doesn't use Apple
old iTunes music and whatever

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they call it, they say you.
Grab your iPods guys and scroll

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through to the Teach Sleep
Repeat podcast.

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And rate it.
But we won't ask them.

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We won't ask.
Not today, anyway.

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I know.
Look, we're coming up to Episode

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100.
We are.

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And I think that's maybe playing
on my mind because I can't

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fathom the fact that we've done
97 of these before this one.

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Yeah.
Where has that time gone?

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Well, that's how time works.
I think you'd take them.

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Just time chugs on, doesn't it?
A wider point actually.

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Constant rate.
Our children are also ageing at

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a constant rate.
Yeah, I know.

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And I just, I just, it's kind of
so quick.

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Well, do you know something
very, very roughly aligned with

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the start of this podcast?
Maybe it made us more virile and

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ready to go because our babies
were conceived around that time

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as well.
Yeah, yeah.

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It just so happens that though,
if you look back to when we

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start the podcast in early 2023,
both of our babies were born in

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late 2023.
So you can track back basically

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the entire journey through
pregnancy and through birth and

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through our children growing up.
It's like almost like a market

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of how old this and that's.
What?

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I mean, but that's but that's
gone so quick.

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Yeah, it's gone so quick and it
just worries me.

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No, people always say like older
people be like, oh, you just

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wait.
As you get older, the time it

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just goes quicker.
And like you said, I'm normally

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sarcastic.
I'm like, oh it doesn't know

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time does It just goes the same.
But I think it perceives to go

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quicker genuinely, because if
you're 40 a year to you is a

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40th of your life.
If you're 10 a year to you is

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1/10 of your life and you don't
even remember the first two or

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three years.
So it's much more proportional

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wise a big chunk of your life.
So I, I think there is

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definitely truth in it.
And I think when you have

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children who grow so incredibly
quickly and and develop so

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quickly and change so quickly
from like 3 months for our

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children is unbelievable that
change that goes.

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So much happens.
If you rewind 3 months and and

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then look at now our babies are
walking, our babies are talking

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way more.
Rory reacts to things.

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He says yes and.
No, Yeah, mines running, yeah.

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Is running yours knows other
times tables?

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Yeah, quicker than Sophie be at
the times tables up to 100

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already.
It's insane.

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Quicker than old Sophie.
Sophie the robot?

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Yeah, but I don't know, I'm just
feeling weird about it.

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I was laying in bed last night
just thinking, am I just, is it?

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Am I just going to be 50 like
that?

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And our kids are just adults and
they'll be like, oh, that's

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gone, honestly.
Yeah.

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But that's horrible, isn't it?
Makes me.

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We need to know the most of it,
genuinely.

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I don't know.
People are listening probably

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now, if you don't have kids,
you're probably thinking, well,

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I've got all this to come or I'm
choosing to not do that, or I

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can't do that for whatever
reason.

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I think people go through this
thought process either way.

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Yeah.
You know, you get older and you

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think you just blink and you're
you're 40.

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You know, I'm, I'm 31.
You're 32.

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You look 40 already.
So I mean that must play on your

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mind.
Baby, I've looked 40 since I was

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23.
It's gone so.

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Quick listen, Hun.
I was like you, aged 50 years.

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Literally, there's one perk of
being of being bald, which is

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that you kind of look the same
for a long time.

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Yeah, to be fair, when you're
50, I've got you.

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You look well, you look well,
you look you were 23.

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You look exactly the bloody
same.

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Yeah, I'll ignore that.
Oh.

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Back to a serious point,
genuinely I do.

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I do know what you mean.
It is time does just seem to

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move quickly.
Does seem that way.

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So on that note, yes, how's your
week been?

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That's gone really quick.
Other than my monthly

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existential existential crisis
that I have, you know, every now

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and then, I've been pretty good.
So I mean, we obviously went to

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BET last week.
We spoke about that in our last

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episode and when we visited the
White Rose stand we were given,

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we were given some tiny the
turtle plushy. 10 years, weren't

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we?
They were fantastic.

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So you've had one in your class?
Yep, I've had one in one in my

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class.
I left it.

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Where have you put yours?
Yeah.

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Hilariously, now you put an
Instagram picture.

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Yeah, that's my room.
Of of your tiny, the turtle on

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your board.
I obviously I did the exact same

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thing.
Did you?

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Obviously it was also leaning on
my board because it fit nicely.

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The legs kind of went over it
nicely.

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It was there, but I've got
they're fascinated by it.

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I've got year six.
I thought they'd be like, oh,

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well done, Mrs Stevens.
That's stupid.

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Chuck it in a bin.
Yeah, but they were like, damn.

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Straight up.
I'm thinking, can we take turns

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maybe.
And who looks after each day?

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I was like, Jesus Christ, you're
that you're that into this tiny.

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That's brilliant.
They absolutely love.

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It it shows how much we use
White Rose, doesn't it?

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Yeah, I know.
Kids in year 6 are like it's a

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celebrity.
I've seen tiny every week for my

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whole school life.
What are you?

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What are your fours like?
I bet.

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They loved it.
They absolutely loved it.

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It was so nice because do you
know what kids in general jump

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on any opportunity for something
that's a bit different and fun?

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Yeah, I find that in general,
and I think, and sometimes we

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get caught in that trap of just
like very strictly ready to do,

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doing your work to do that,
which I think is great for a lot

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of reasons.
But every now and then, jeez,

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have a bit of fun.
And this was that moment to do

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it.
And we had Tiny and I'd put him

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on the board before anyone had
come in, right.

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So I didn't say anything either.
And they were coming in.

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And it's amazing how perceptive
children are when it's not their

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own work and doing.
Things wrong in their own work.

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Because within nought .5 seconds
the first child who walked in

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went you've got tiny.
And I was like, yeah, can you

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tell me the date today?
No, Underneath tiny.

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Yeah.
Wouldn't be able to see that

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date.
What's the date today?

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It's the it's underneath the
turtle.

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You've been shouting about 5
minutes.

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It's just there.
You're.

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The one you spotted immediately.
Exactly.

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But they loved it.
I said on Instagram, one of the

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children put their hand up and
we were, we kind of gone over

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the whole, we've got a tiny, how
do you get in, blah, blah.

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There's only two in the whole
school, minor Mr Stevens

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classroom.
It's very, very special.

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Oh, going to put him here so we
can watch because he needs to

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learn, doesn't he, Tiny?
Anyone who uses White Rose knows

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that tiny's wrong 99% of the
time.

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Yeah.
So really good for growth

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mindset, really good for the
children being able to say no,

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it's because of and they're
doing reasoning without

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thinking.
But anyway, we had the whole

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chat about it.
We kind of sat about down, done

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some of our times table work,
ready to start a lesson and a

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child just put the hand up and I
went, yeah, Anyway, can I just

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say one thing to Tiny please?
To Tiny, yeah.

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To Tiny, to him, plushie on the
board.

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And I was like, yeah, of course,
go on.

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And he turned to Tiny and he
went, Tiny, you have to stop

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getting things wrong.
And he was being genuine, like

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we're going to help, you gotta
stop me and we're going to help

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you today.
Okay?

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So it was a really nice hook.
My kids loved it, but Tiny

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stayed there all day.
So we have maths in the morning

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and maths classes are slightly
different to English and

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afternoon classes, but every
single child who saw him for the

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first time was buzzing and I was
so funny.

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It's nice though.
Yeah, such a simple thing.

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I really didn't think it'd have
that reaction.

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One of the one of my kids I
swear went home that night came

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in the next day and said bought
1 because you can buy them on

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the White Rose website.
They literally asked me in

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school can we get can we get
them?

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Can you buy them?
I was like, you can.

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They're quite expensive though.
They're like 15 lbs.

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If you want to buy them, we got
them for free because obviously.

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We're huge influence
influencers.

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I think the term is Ed.
You talk flinters.

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Ed, you talk flinters.
And by the way, I mean, Dylan

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and I just kind of ride off of
it.

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But he went and bought 1.
He was like, it arrives on

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Monday.
I was like, OK, well, bring in

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your tiny.
We have a tiny party.

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Honestly, I love it.
Absolutely love it.

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That's so.
Sweet.

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Oh, that's nice.
Well, I glad we had a parallel

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experience and both did the
exact same thing.

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We might even know.
Of course we did.

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Yeah, like these clothes we're
wearing.

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It's not a surprise, really, at
this point, surely is.

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It I just need to have the
accidental dread and then what's

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what's?
That had children at the same

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time as well.
Yeah.

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Inspired by this podcast.
Yeah.

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Because we talked all the time
and we decided we both want

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children at the same time.
Yeah.

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I don't know why, but there we
are.

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Both our children being Bivar as
well.

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Everyone asks is that on
purpose?

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No.
Yes.

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Not on purpose, we just think
the same.

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But how's your week been anyway?
Other than tiny, yeah.

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Yeah, good.
I suppose I just want to talk a

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little bit about it's not, it's
not an existential thing, but

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it's just the thing that really
plays in my mind as a teacher in

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education because you think
about why you get into teaching,

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right?
And it's remember your why and

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it's patronising when it makes.
You.

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I'm sat there thinking it's the
money baby.

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Or not, but but genuinely, the
reason you want to want to be a

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teacher is because you want to
help the children that that is

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00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,720
the bottom line.
You want to be able to do your

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00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,160
job in a way which helps the
next generation to understand

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00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,280
things that are important and
and help them out and be that

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00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,640
safe space for them.
So I think this has been

233
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,720
something on my mind honestly
since day one.

234
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,040
It wasn't something that I was
AECT and I wasn't sure a newly

235
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,320
qualified teacher what this
meant from the start.

236
00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,960
It felt wrong and it was this
obsession that we have as

237
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,400
teachers about data.
OK, so we can talk about that

238
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,920
whole conversation about whether
data is important or not and why

239
00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,360
it is and why it isn't.
Sometimes let's just park that

240
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,640
for a second, but I'm talking
very specifically now.

241
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,960
We create bars and levels to get
to for our children to be able

242
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:23,040
to say that this child is
expected in maths, this child is

243
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,960
expected in English and we say
that's their age expectation.

244
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:27,920
That's what we should be driving
children towards.

245
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,680
We are obsessed with it to the
detriment of so many kids in our

246
00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:34,800
class.
Because what ends up happening,

247
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,960
and you know, correct me if I'm
wrong here, if your school does

248
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,560
something different, but most
schools are like this.

249
00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:42,680
And I can see why you're in a
people progress meeting and

250
00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,240
you've got, let's say 32
children in your class.

251
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,600
And immediately what happens is
you are forced to focus down and

252
00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,720
magnify on the children around
this line that you've invented

253
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,760
yourself to be age expected.
OK, so let's say in maths it's

254
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,640
that they've got to do this
specific standardised test and

255
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,760
achieve this specific mark for
you to be able to call this

256
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,600
child expected.
In maths, you've already

257
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:04,880
narrowed down what maths
becomes.

258
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,040
Then maths becomes some judging
children on what they get in

259
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,120
this test at the end.
So you get rid of everything

260
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,040
else to do in maths in terms of
the problem solving, the the

261
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,200
investigations, getting things
wrong, being resilient, none of

262
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,000
that matters anymore.
They've got to get here in a

263
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,520
test that's already narrowed
down, which then you look at

264
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,840
your class and you can honestly
narrow it down to like 6 kids

265
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,080
who are on the cusp of this
line.

266
00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:28,720
And those six children then
become your forced focus to get

267
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,880
over that line.
And what happens is the children

268
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,240
who are past that line or have
moved past that line in a year,

269
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:36,440
suddenly they're like, cool,
right?

270
00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,200
They're there, forget about
them, they're there now, that's

271
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:40,640
fine.
They've made this two points of

272
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,520
progress past the line, so
that's OK, that's good.

273
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,880
Those kids who are just below
the line, are they your focus?

274
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,720
Those kids who are way back
behind this imaginary line we

275
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,120
put for age expected, they're
never going to get there.

276
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,200
So just plod along with them I
suppose, see where they get, but

277
00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,520
put your focus on these kids who
are closer to this line and

278
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,680
those kids way past the line who
are pushing on to making greater

279
00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:00,240
depth for getting full marks in
their maths.

280
00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:01,760
Cool, just let them crack on
with that.

281
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,160
That's great.
They don't need as much support

282
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,280
and you become hyper focused as
a teacher or forced to be anyway

283
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,640
on 20% of your kids.
Yeah.

284
00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:14,000
And I absolutely hate it because
why on earth should a 10% move

285
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,400
for those kids be worth more
than a 3040% move for your kids

286
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,080
who are even lower or a 1020%
move for your kids who are

287
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,400
higher simply because of this
line that we've made-up?

288
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:24,280
Yeah.
Yeah.

289
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,040
It winds me up.
It's not that progress isn't

290
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,280
more important than the progress
of everyone else.

291
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,920
And I think in general, I think
that I'm just fed up with

292
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,880
constantly being given a brand
new list of children who are

293
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,400
just on the cusp of something
that we've invented.

294
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,040
And we've said it's important
because of XY reason.

295
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,240
Just getting past that line,
it's like, do you know what?

296
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:41,280
Do you know what I'm actually
going to do?

297
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:42,760
And I've done this for years and
years now.

298
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:45,840
I'm going to ignore that list
and I'm just going to teach well

299
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,320
and help every child who needs
help.

300
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,560
And if it comes to an
intervention after a lesson, if

301
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,280
there's a group of kids who
don't understand why I did that

302
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,280
lesson, I'm going to keep them
in the assembly time to do

303
00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,000
betters to work for that lesson.
I'm not going to go to my list

304
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,240
and be like, I've got to make up
something because this list of

305
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,080
children need some extra help.
So I'm just going to ignore you

306
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,320
guys who don't get it today.
I'm going to get this list of

307
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,240
five children and give them this
thing because I need to get them

308
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:07,320
past this imaginary line.
Please.

309
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,160
I don't care.
It is a detriment to my

310
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,560
teaching.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's tricky.

311
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:17,240
I think I'm so I'm so into the
year 6 world that like hearing

312
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,320
you say this is like is like a
memory for me.

313
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,600
It's like unlocking a memory.
I feel like I've not lost my

314
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,200
way, but I feel so indoctrinated
into that game that it's kind of

315
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:28,680
refreshing to hear this because
I remember.

316
00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:31,760
I remember thinking all of it.
I remember thinking, this is

317
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,120
mad.
Why am I not just helping the

318
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,280
lowest ability children at all
times of any extra stuff I've

319
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:38,760
got?
Why am I ever putting if I've

320
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,640
only got a small amount of
resources to use?

321
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,600
Why am I not only helping the
kids who don't get it the most?

322
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,640
The kids who can't add, maybe
because that's vitally

323
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,760
important, but also you're not
helping the kids who are just

324
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,760
OK.
I think that's the thing that

325
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,720
gets forgotten all the time.
People have this conversation.

326
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,080
I'll say what you say.
I yeah, I agree I should be

327
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,280
helping the lowest children.
And my point is, yeah, you

328
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:58,440
should.
But do you know what you should

329
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,920
also not do?
Ignore every single child in

330
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,200
your class because just because
they can do some maths now,

331
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,160
right, it doesn't necessarily
mean that their progress is less

332
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,640
important.
I, I, I completely understand

333
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,640
before someone gets annoyed at
me and says, well, if you can't

334
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:12,760
add, you've got to be able to
add.

335
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,680
Or if you can't read, you've got
to be able to read.

336
00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:16,480
I'm like, yeah, but I'm not even
doing that because I've got to

337
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,880
get to this age expected line.
With these other mildly kids.

338
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,680
How many kids in Key Stage 2
actually can't read?

339
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,840
Do you know what I mean?
Like most kids can read.

340
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:24,840
There are some children who
can't.

341
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,800
They need explicit intervention
ASAP.

342
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,280
But most kids who aren't at age
expected level, they can read.

343
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,360
Do you know what I mean?
They can decode words, they're

344
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,000
just not at the level at the.
Bar that we've set.

345
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,880
Exactly not at that bar that
we've set is important for age.

346
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,480
I agree.
I agree what you're you're

347
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,760
saying in terms of the lowest,
but I just my my point is

348
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,640
everyone.
I think 80% of kids can honestly

349
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,400
get missed in a school because
when you're so data-driven by

350
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,360
lines that we have literally
invented.

351
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,240
Ourselves, Especially when the
lines are so arbitrary.

352
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,240
Like you're going back to your
point about test data, right?

353
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,120
And it normally is, isn't it?
Let's be honest, it's normally

354
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,280
they need to achieve X amount of
marks in a series of tests.

355
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,680
And for year six it's normally
the SAT which is standardised,

356
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,240
but even in the other year
groups it becomes whatever you

357
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,840
pick as your end of year test.
Of course, which is even worse,

358
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,600
But even with year 6 alone,
right?

359
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,320
One of my biggest pet peeves is
the fact that when you put up

360
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,760
just a mark threshold on a test,
it does mean that there are now

361
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,360
infinite ways for someone to get
there.

362
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:19,920
And it doesn't really, it
doesn't really value like what

363
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,280
being a good mathematician is,
for example.

364
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,960
Sure, right.
I could, you could have, you

365
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,160
could get a honestly, it's going
to sound horrible.

366
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,120
You could get a terrible
mathematician through the SAS.

367
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,960
Yeah, because you know what, you
could look at it.

368
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,200
You look at the analysis again.
Sophie does all the analysis

369
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,800
every year, doesn't she?
And there's loads of great

370
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:33,800
insights.
You can see.

371
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,520
I think she does it through
learning my questions and other

372
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:36,480
websites.
It's really good stuff.

373
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,480
But but you can look at that and
be like, oh, so you can pass

374
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,600
these tests just knowing
fractions, decimals and

375
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,000
percentages and arithmetic.
OK, cool, eight in the

376
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,280
curriculum, then not going to
teach that.

377
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,440
And it's like, OK, so they would
get through and they would be

378
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:50,520
expected.
But are they a good

379
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,360
mathematician?
Absolutely not by any other

380
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:53,320
metric.
No, they're not.

381
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:54,920
They don't even know what Alder
is.

382
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,320
How can you say they're age
expected because they passed

383
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,400
this test?
OK, well, we've got very

384
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,000
different ideas then of what we
think a good mathematician is

385
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,480
that by the time you're 11,
don't we?

386
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,640
If if you think that passing
that test is it.

387
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,160
And I think actually just
knowing a bit more about the

388
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,440
measurement and geometry and and
and shape and time, algebra and

389
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,840
time, I think they need to know
a bit of all of that actually to

390
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,400
be considered even at a base
level of good at maths.

391
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:17,440
Yeah.
But those percentage point

392
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,000
there, that is what it becomes
and it winds me up slightly

393
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,920
because I can see the trap
happening.

394
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:24,280
That's why it winds me up even
more.

395
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,480
I can see why people go down
this route and I completely

396
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,760
understand it.
But for me, it's especially in

397
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,360
those years other than year 6.
I get why when it comes to the

398
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,680
SAT, it's your, it's your
headline data in your league

399
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,720
tables for your score.
I completely understand it.

400
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,920
I'm not digging out any
leadership team who who think

401
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,000
that's important.
I get it.

402
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,040
But it's just frustrating and a
bit mind numbing when it happens

403
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,960
in year 3 and it happens in year
4 and it's an end of year

404
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,480
assessment test that you've
chosen.

405
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,920
You could have chosen from 57
different tests that you've done

406
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,120
and the line could have been
slightly different all the time

407
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,520
and it becomes annoyingly lower
down in the school.

408
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,240
Like you say, you look at it and
you go, OK, let's stick with

409
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,200
maths.
For example, you could get a

410
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,880
mathematician who you've drilled
to be really good at arithmetic,

411
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,840
and arithmetic's really
important, Don't get me wrong.

412
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,320
I focus on arithmetic of my
children because I know it's

413
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,520
what they need to be able to do
every single time.

414
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:14,680
Yeah.
And we do some reasoning.

415
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,040
Problem solving.
We reasoning all the time.

416
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,080
We do problem solving, I'd say
less frequently than other

417
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,360
children might, simply because
we're spending so much time

418
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,720
getting better at the.
Absolutely.

419
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:23,480
Exactly.
Yeah.

420
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,320
But I can get children free to
expected.

421
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,200
Yeah.
Four level by getting them to be

422
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,160
36 out of 40 or more and then
just doing the reasoning a

423
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,320
problem solving paper and kind
of getting like 5 out of 30.

424
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,080
Getting a few of the easy ones.
A few of the easy ones might

425
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:37,560
where they got to match up some
place value.

426
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,600
At no point have they got any of
the, you know, complicated 2 two

427
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,760
step word problems, right?
None of the measuring stuff,

428
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,320
right.
The fraction stuff, they're

429
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,760
honestly working like 2030% of
the problem solving bits.

430
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,120
It's hard.
Anything that combines it or

431
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,840
looks at shape, for example, I
just have a go see what you get.

432
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,480
But at the end, they will say
expected, Yeah.

433
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:56,840
And, you know, and you'll get a
pound back.

434
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,080
Exactly.
And then someone who's expected,

435
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,000
right at the top end of
expected, who got so many more

436
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,520
of those questions right, is
still just expected, who knows a

437
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,640
lot more about a wider range of
areas in math, who is a much

438
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,920
better mathematician.
But do you know what?

439
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,280
The child who's just below
expected and the child who's

440
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,440
just above expected, they should
be getting the same intervention

441
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,720
and help because what's
currently happening is the child

442
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,240
who's just above expected and
the child who's at the top of

443
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,800
expected are seen as expected.
Both put in the same category.

444
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:25,839
No, you don't need any extra
help.

445
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,400
They are so much more different
than the ones either side of

446
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:30,680
this arbitrary line that we've
made-up.

447
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,320
And that's the trap We fall in
this teachers all the time.

448
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,280
And this is a very long window
of me saying way of me saying

449
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,200
that this is how data drives bad
practise.

450
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,840
It's so funny you mentioned this
as your kind of like your weekly

451
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,680
recap because one of my
questions later in that sort of

452
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,440
main bulk is related to that.
So we'll come back to that.

453
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,000
You, when I say it, you'll be
like, Oh yeah, is very linked to

454
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,760
something when I asked you about
simplicity, about losing our way

455
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,000
as teachers and the purpose of
things.

456
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:56,160
So do stick around for that
conversation because it should

457
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,280
be a good one.
And you've actually panned the

458
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,280
podcast episode for the first
time and I think nearly 100.

459
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,680
So that's not a. 100 yet because
we're in on the episode 98.

460
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,000
Yeah.
OK, shut up.

461
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,400
Right, I want to be riled up by
you.

462
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:10,680
No to you.
I want you to.

463
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:11,880
Yeah, that's.
Good, because I've got that

464
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,400
ready.
You've got a little riled up for

465
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,360
me ready.
It's a section that's becoming a

466
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,320
bit more frequent.
It's funny, yeah.

467
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,880
You seem to really revel in it.
And unbelievably, like I said,

468
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,400
it's making you prepare stuff
for the podcast.

469
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,480
It is.
And I and I just.

470
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,040
I'm desperate for you to
embarrass yourself.

471
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:26,200
OK.
You know, I'm desperate for you

472
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,320
to say.
I'm desperate to get so

473
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:28,400
passionate that you embarrass
yourself.

474
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,400
And we all go, ha, ha.
Look at you.

475
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,360
Yeah.
And you want me to get

476
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:31,480
cancelled, so yeah.
And you get.

477
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,520
Cancelled new presenter in
probably Sophie the Robot and

478
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:36,840
we'll crack on.
I don't know he'll be planning

479
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:37,800
it.
Then and we start making, we'll

480
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,720
make this podcast good.
Yeah, OK, we'll run our socials.

481
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:42,880
Whatever right here?
What's the context here?

482
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,240
Just online for me.
Just online.

483
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,280
I just, I just see things online
all the time and I'm like, oh,

484
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,160
that's interesting.
Interesting question there.

485
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,400
It's always anonymous, so I
don't know who these people are.

486
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,600
Someone said they've got year
group meetings during PPA.

487
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,560
Just wait because I know you're
already, I can already see you

488
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,200
deceiving.
Year group meetings during PPA

489
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,840
at my school were regularly
directed to do certain tasks.

490
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,040
In that time.
I've never been too bothered

491
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,040
because I felt like if we didn't
do it then we'd only have to do

492
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,920
it after school anyway.
That does come into touch.

493
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,120
Which is a fairpoint or during
lunch or something like that.

494
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,320
However, it occurred to me today
that this does mean that the

495
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,400
meetings don't show up as
directed time on our calendar,

496
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:16,040
right?
It's hidden.

497
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,000
Recently, we've been also
directed to do tasks in the

498
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,040
morning of our PPA.
So I don't always have time to

499
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,480
do what I actually planned to do
in the spare time in my PPA

500
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,480
after this meeting.
And it's beginning to annoy me.

501
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:28,840
I don't know what I should do.
What should I do?

502
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,120
Well, I'm going to call you out
immediately on something you did

503
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:33,440
last week, which was when you
mentioned the four day week

504
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,000
thing, you said there's a school
who's gone to four days a week

505
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,400
and teachers get the 5th day
off.

506
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,160
And I was like, it's not off
because they've got to do work.

507
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,600
They get the fifth way to the
fifth day to do work.

508
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,760
They've got to do.
So when we're talking about PPAI

509
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,480
think so many of these problems
stem from the idea that it's

510
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,360
off, the idea that it's a, it's
a favour we had.

511
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:59,560
We had a message, a comment this
week about how someone said I

512
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,440
did something about how PPA
should be flexible, should be

513
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,560
able to take it from home, blah
blah, blah.

514
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,400
Someone commented really annoyed
saying, oh, and teachers never

515
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,200
bloody think about who's
covering their PPA, do they?

516
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,040
They always just desperately
obsessed with wanting their PPA

517
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,960
and whoever is covering it,
who's thinking about the

518
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,840
children and their safety and
the HLTA who have to cover it.

519
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,440
And I was like, yeah, that's not
our problem.

520
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,760
I'm sorry, in the, I'm sure
you've got some very, you know,

521
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,640
adequate grievances that are
fine.

522
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,480
Yeah.
It's not our problem though.

523
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,720
And if you're scrambling to
cover for PPA every week, that's

524
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,600
an SLT problem.
And your school problem to.

525
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,520
Be honest, yours exactly that
because 99% of schools from what

526
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,440
I've heard have a bit of a
system in place, at least PPA

527
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,400
and it is sacred.
Anyway, this, this person is the

528
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,800
PPA is being used incorrectly.
Do you know what I mean?

529
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,200
This person has to go to their
union and say something because

530
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,680
PPA is not time off.
PPA is not a favour.

531
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,360
PPA is not something where you
can go, well, it's OK actually

532
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:54,240
I've got PPA that day, so I'm
sure they won't mind doing a

533
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,040
meeting.
Oh, I'll just look in a parent

534
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,920
meeting that day because there's
PPA, there's some free time.

535
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,960
They've got time.
It's not free time.

536
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:01,800
Let me make this extremely
clear.

537
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,120
The amount of work teachers have
to do outside of the classroom

538
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,360
just to be able to deliver their
work in of the classroom in the

539
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:11,960
first place, it is much more
than the time they're allocated

540
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,040
for that planning, preparation
and assessment in their PPA

541
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,920
time.
So anything you put into PPA

542
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,040
that takes time away from your
teachers being able to do that

543
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,120
is adding time onto the teachers
free time where they'll have to

544
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:28,960
complete that work.
If you have 4 hours of work a

545
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,480
week to do outside of the
classroom and you get 2 hours of

546
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,400
PPA, you get 2 hours you've got
to do outside of the classroom.

547
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,920
Completely normal.
Often more.

548
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,080
If you put an hour meeting in
that PPA, guess what?

549
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,320
That four hours of work still
has to get done.

550
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,080
So that is an extra hour now
that I've got to do at the

551
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,840
weekend.
It's not acceptable, It's not

552
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,480
fine.
PPA is sacred, and the only

553
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,520
thing we should be working
towards as a whole staff is not

554
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,960
gaslighting teachers into
thinking they're the problem

555
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,760
because they want their PPA
protected.

556
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,120
It's actually working together
with teachers to try and make

557
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,440
whatever extra work they've got
to do outside of the classroom

558
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,160
actually fit into that time
we're given to do the job.

559
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:09,080
So stop putting the onus on
teachers from wanting their PPA

560
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,520
time to be sacred and to have at
least 10%.

561
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,840
At least 10%, by the way, not,
not any less, because an

562
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,440
afternoon is often not even 10%
because the morning's so much

563
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,320
longer.
But we should be working

564
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,320
together to make it work.
Stop gaslighting teachers.

565
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,840
Stop making them feel bad.
It's not time off.

566
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,160
It's time they literally need to
be able to deliver the bulk of

567
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,720
their own job.
That's really important.

568
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,240
Wow.
Well, thank you, Shakespeare.

569
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,760
That was a monologue and 1/2
that wasn't it.

570
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,200
Crikey.
Really good.

571
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,600
Yeah, very interesting.
I totally agree.

572
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,720
But what would you say to the
one point in there which I

573
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,000
thought was very like, I can see
where teachers would think,

574
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,880
which was about the meetings
being other times.

575
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,360
So the meeting in PPA he was
like or she I don't know, his

576
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:49,600
person was.
If I don't do it now, I only

577
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:50,800
have to do it another time
anyway.

578
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,000
Yeah.
If you what do you think about

579
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,520
that If you've got a group
meeting, not a star.

580
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:54,760
Yeah.
If you've got to meet with your

581
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,040
group, whatever reason, it does
make sense to do it in PPA.

582
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,040
Yeah, right.
But that has to be a decision

583
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,200
that you will make.
OK.

584
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,560
I remember I worked in a school
once where it was from the top

585
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,280
down, you have to have AU group
meeting every week and in one

586
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,520
hour and 1 hour and it was after
school and that was on top of

587
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,400
your hour week of training.
That is completely wrong.

588
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,080
That is not something that I
think is acceptable because

589
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,520
you're putting the onus on and
you've got to do an hour

590
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,880
meeting, OK.
What it should be is just you're

591
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,080
working with your year group
team as a teacher who's doing

592
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,920
their planning, preparation and
assessment.

593
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,240
If you and your team decide that
it's beneficial to get together

594
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,440
to help with that planning
because then it's more

595
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,720
efficient.
We're all on the same page.

596
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,960
Maybe you're sharing planning so
you end up doing less anyway.

597
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,920
There should be no time on it.
We often, we often meet with our

598
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,640
year group in PPA for honestly
10 minutes or less at the start

599
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,560
of every PPA.
It's almost like a let's get our

600
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,080
heads together.
We don't often get time to sit

601
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,600
in the same room because we're
so busy teaching.

602
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,960
Let's get our heads together.
Any notices we need to know

603
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,440
about and if I don't know about
it, it will have much of A

604
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,200
detrimental impact later.
I'm, I'm completely like, I want

605
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,480
those meetings.
I want to use my PPA for that

606
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,040
because it helps me when it
becomes just simply, well, SLT

607
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,000
have given us an agenda that
we've got to get through because

608
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,960
we're a year group meeting and
we have to do it in our PPA.

609
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,920
That's when it becomes wrong.
And if at any point, right, I

610
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,520
could go to my head of year and
I could say I'm so sorry.

611
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,240
I'm.
I'm completely swamped.

612
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,560
I've been asked to do this.
I'm just going to crack on with

613
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,200
this.
Could you please just e-mail me

614
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:17,960
these points?
Yeah.

615
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,440
Do you know what my year group
leader would say?

616
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:20,320
Oh, yeah, of course.
Yeah, of.

617
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:21,960
Course, because yeah, it's not
directed.

618
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:22,880
Yeah, exactly.
It's not.

619
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,040
I agree.
I I think it's been an

620
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,800
interesting thought experiment,
having worked in a school, but

621
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,760
also did an hour set, very set
hour rigid.

622
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,800
You have to do AE group meeting
and now and now working in a

623
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,880
school where that's the E group
meetings are not, they're not

624
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,280
even talked about.
They're just some people do and

625
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,560
some people don't like it
doesn't even matter.

626
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:37,600
They're just not a thing.
Right.

627
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,960
I'd like to do a thought
experiment with people maybe

628
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,040
that do have that set time.
Maybe it's an hour, maybe it's

629
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,880
half an hour, but whatever.
A set time a week where it's

630
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,360
like a you have to have a year
group meeting.

631
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,480
How much of that year group
meeting could be scrapped?

632
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,800
How much of that you group
meeting could honestly just turn

633
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,280
into a passing conversation in
the corridor?

634
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,080
How much that you group meeting
could just be an e-mail from

635
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,680
your head of year?
And I I because my personal

636
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,640
feeling is having gone from a
school that did it to a school

637
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,160
that didn't do it.
I don't feel like I've lost

638
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,800
anything.
Every single thing we did in

639
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,720
those you group meetings.
I now just do just in the

640
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,640
morning walking past.
Oh, we've done this thing for

641
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,840
today.
Oh yeah, Thanks for reminding me

642
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,240
that spend 5 minutes in the
morning then go.

643
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:12,320
It's adding to my little list.
That's fine.

644
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,960
I've done that now three days
later in at lunchtime.

645
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,280
Or did you did you see that or I
put it through?

646
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,160
I got I emailed it to you.
Oh yeah, check it out later.

647
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,560
I'll do it this afternoon.
You just it just turns into like

648
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,600
part of the job.
Not it doesn't need to be and me

649
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,080
are wasting an hour of my PPA or
wasting an hour after school.

650
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,160
I just I just I reckon I can't
imagine there's many of you out

651
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,240
there if you are doing it an
hour year group meeting that

652
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,960
that disagree of that and think
no, no, we definitely that hour

653
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,560
is essential that I sit there
exclusively doing that for an

654
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,160
hour.
I doubt it.

655
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,320
No, I completely agree.
And I think I think it has to

656
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,000
come from the teacher.
Is it useful for the teachers?

657
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,480
If the answer's yes, then call.
And if it becomes scatty like

658
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,960
you're saying, yeah, in terms of
I can imagine that can become

659
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,040
quite a scatty situation where
things are forgotten.

660
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,120
Yeah, sure.
Use e-mail.

661
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,440
Yeah.
Honestly, just do a bullet point

662
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,000
e-mail or have like have some
kind of notice board, genuinely,

663
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,840
in your year group, have some
notice board.

664
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,640
Maybe it's in your year group
leaders classroom.

665
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,720
Yeah, whatever it might be.
Or in your shared area, if

666
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,520
you've got one, just just have a
way of just writing things down

667
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,520
where you don't all have to be
in the same room for half an

668
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,120
hour.
You know, it can just be like

669
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,440
I've updated the board or sent
an e-mail or we've got this to

670
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,720
do I think in this ways around.
Yeah.

671
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,480
And then if something is
essential, guess what?

672
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,520
In PPA, you just do what you
did.

673
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,400
You just spend 3 minutes talking
to your team.

674
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,480
Yeah, if you need to.
Which as teachers, we're not.

675
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,920
We're not against that.
Doesn't matter, we're not

676
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,360
against that.
Yeah, anyway, so there we go.

677
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:25,680
I thought that was an
interesting one.

678
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,120
But yeah, I think protect your
PPA time, fight for it.

679
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,040
My advice would be if they have
any, if they have something to

680
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,800
say about that, of you saying,
oh, actually it's undirected

681
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:33,960
time, then you're in a toxic
school.

682
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,440
So at that point, don't care
about it.

683
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,840
Just do what you need to do at
that point.

684
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,480
If they're toxic, then don't
care about their feelings

685
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:40,800
because they don't care about
yours.

686
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,800
So just fight the fight.
That's the way to.

687
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,280
There we are.
Anyway, you've got you've been

688
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,800
saying to me all week about some
stories.

689
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,720
Yeah.
On Instagram.

690
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:47,560
Yeah.
Have you got them?

691
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,720
Well, basically since we've had
the big boom in numbers in the

692
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,040
last few weeks, so has the
amount of messages that we've

693
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,840
been getting right.
And I think these two messages

694
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,840
perfectly summarised something
we said last week, which was how

695
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,120
schools are so different.
So I'm going to read them out.

696
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,800
There's 2 here.
Here's the first one, showing

697
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,960
how schools can be amazing.
OK.

698
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,800
All right.
So just listening to this week's

699
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,760
podcast, I really want to share
what my school are doing.

700
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,880
Last year my school implemented
a whole day of PPA from home and

701
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,160
have continued it this academic
year.

702
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,920
On that day children do Forest
school PE and art.

703
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,080
Really great for the kids.
I think they have invested money

704
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,520
in an art studio with an art
specialist teacher.

705
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,160
What our head teacher told us
this at the time.

706
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,320
Use this day off to ensure your
well-being is taken care of as

707
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,680
long as you get the work done
because you're professionals and

708
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,880
I trust you, do what you like.
If you want to work late 33

709
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,840
evenings a week and have the day
off, then just do that.

710
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,440
If you want to take your kids to
Chessington for the day and then

711
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,760
work on Sunday, do that.
If you want to use it to ensure

712
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,320
you do not work at the weekends,
do that as well.

713
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,160
As well as this, we get subject
release time twice a term

714
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,520
separate to these PPA days.
I'm not going to say it's been

715
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,400
complete magic and it's just
completely fixed education, but

716
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,720
my goodness, it's been
refreshing to work in a school

717
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,400
where you're actually treated
like professionals and trusted

718
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,480
to do your job.
We need more, We need more.

719
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,120
If you work in a school like
this, please write in more

720
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:11,400
because I tell you what, it
gives me hope.

721
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,480
I I sometimes feel like there's
no hope.

722
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,000
And hearing that makes me feel,
I feel giddy.

723
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,000
I feel so good because, oh, my
God, there's a head teacher out

724
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,160
there that's doing the thing
that I said I would do if I was

725
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:20,800
a head teacher.
Yeah.

726
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,320
Someone doing that.
Yeah, absolutely.

727
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:23,720
It's so exciting.
And and do you know what?

728
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,440
Someone summed it up, I can't
remember where I saw this the

729
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,000
other day, and it was saying
that teachers are not selfish

730
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,920
creatures.
The more you give to teachers,

731
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,560
the more they will give you
back.

732
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,320
Yeah.
If you invest like this in your

733
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,600
teaching staff, your children
will get more out of it and it

734
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:37,720
will be a better school in
general.

735
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,480
Yeah.
That's one thing to add to this.

736
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,680
Incredible.
Because afterwards, you know,

737
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,640
I've got, let's say, a bee in my
bonnet, but about Academy

738
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,160
trusts.
And I thought, you know what?

739
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,040
This.
To be fair, this sounds like

740
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,160
something an Academy trust could
do because they've got the big

741
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,200
budget, maybe everyone goes on
about how its economies of

742
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,680
scale, etcetera.
She messaged after to say she's

743
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,040
also working for a local
authority school.

744
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:57,720
It's not.
That isn't.

745
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,360
That is not a SO.
It's not a trust.

746
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,480
It's not something, sadly.
Well, I've seen what we can do.

747
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,240
Yeah, we can do it wherever,
wherever, around.

748
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,640
It doesn't have to be part of a
trust where the CEO is taking

749
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,600
20% of the.
Budget you'd expect the caveat

750
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,720
to be, and we get all this
because they don't pay any of

751
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,560
the staff correctly.
So we've got this budget to have

752
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:12,840
this art studio.
But that is another thing

753
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,240
though, in the, you know, in,
in, in the dream world, we'd all

754
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,600
have the budget to have an art
studio and a forest school and

755
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,760
specialist teachers to come and
do that.

756
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,920
Most local authority schools
don't have it.

757
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,200
I don't know why, I don't know
what, I don't know how budgeting

758
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,000
works, but I.
Reckon it can happen?

759
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,560
For a lot.
But it is a reality for

760
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,200
somewhere, so it must.
It must be a way to make that

761
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,960
happen.
Yeah, so it, it really is

762
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,240
incredible.
Sorry, I'm just trying to make

763
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,600
sure I can breathe because my,
are you right?

764
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,080
My nose currently has what feels
like a valve at the top because

765
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,320
I can't breathe properly.
So anyone listening, I'm so

766
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,680
sorry if I sound like a, a
machine malfunctioning.

767
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,640
And so we've got that, that I, I
read that and I was like, do you

768
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:45,840
know what?
I've got hope.

769
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,760
What an amazing thing for
education system.

770
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,760
Then I went to TikTok and had
another message from someone

771
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,840
very, very much.
By the way, I appreciate you

772
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,960
sending this message.
I appreciate all messages, but

773
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,200
when they're a bit more, you
know, this is a bad thing that

774
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,960
happened to me.
I do appreciate someone putting

775
00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,800
their heart on the sleeve like
that.

776
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,680
So thank you.
Obviously going to remain

777
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,560
anonymous.
I was a student in what I

778
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,880
thought was a fantastic school
and I even went to this primary

779
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,360
school and knew how good it was.
I was successful in a job

780
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,440
interview and unfortunately due
to a number of factors I was

781
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,320
left as an ECT as leader of
supply.

782
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,560
So sorting out all supply as
well as being given a subject

783
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,240
responsibility of maths,
something at the time that he

784
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,240
thought was an amazing privilege
and you can frame it away for a

785
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,160
new teacher like wow you're in
charge of maths.

786
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,560
However you know obviously by
the end he knew what was

787
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,440
happening.
He was also seen as the young 1,

788
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,160
so any IT problems came straight
to him and as a result was also

789
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,400
given IT coordinator.
Oh my God.

790
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,960
So a brand new teacher given
maths lead huge job, ICT lead

791
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,440
just because they can unplug
AHDMI cable and also then leader

792
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,720
of supply and helping his other
EC TS as well.

793
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,320
OK huge responsibilities.
So at 21 years of old he was

794
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,080
head of maths, head of
computing, head of PE and unit

795
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,480
leader for two other EC TS as
well as being one himself.

796
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,360
In his first year he had a
verbal altercation with a parent

797
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:12,200
when the mother of the child in
question said effing pointless

798
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,800
and useless why the F are you a
teacher?

799
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,800
Which then led to her coming
into the playground and out of

800
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,600
nowhere, slapping slash,
punching a closed fist kind of

801
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,960
slap in the face.
No.

802
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,560
I don't want to put future
teachers off because it is fun

803
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,000
in so many ways, and when it's
fun it's amazing.

804
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,720
But something has to change,
doesn't it?

805
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,320
I I can't fathom that.
There's so much to unpack.

806
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,040
Firstly, is he the only teacher
at this school?

807
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,520
And doing every job I know I
know, apart from never 2 EC

808
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,920
teachers.
Isn't Yeah, yeah, of course.

809
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,600
Oh my God, that's insane.
Like.

810
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,960
But I wonder people quit.
Do you not see the the two the

811
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,200
two like problems there?
Like in terms of how amazing

812
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,160
schools are, the first school,
unbelievable the way that that

813
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,600
school treated their new staff
like, don't you think?

814
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,080
I think personally when you're
in ECT because it's a two year

815
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,560
thing now, those two years
should be spent either shadowing

816
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,600
someone to learn what they're
doing in a maybe in a role they

817
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,880
want to be master lead one day,
call shadow the actual master

818
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,840
lead.
Then just shadow them and

819
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,800
learning to teach.
Get better at teaching.

820
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,280
They were obviously desperate
for filling these roles for

821
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,320
whatever reason.
But why?

822
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,000
I mean, say something.
Yeah, that's I mean, it's almost

823
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,800
ironic, isn't it?
Because clearly it's the fact

824
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,240
that they did that to that ACT
probably shows why they didn't

825
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,040
have an athlete in the 1st place
because people don't clearly

826
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,200
don't want to work to place like
that.

827
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,960
And if you know, you know, what
with the parent thing is

828
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,080
rubbish, but it's kind of like
that's a little bit more out of

829
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,400
your control in terms of you
can't, you can't change the

830
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,880
catchment that you're in, if you
know what I mean.

831
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,640
You can, you can help to uplift
the the area, but like the

832
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,080
catchment, what I'm trying to
say here is it's so vastly

833
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,120
different where you end up
working, what kind of catchment

834
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,000
you're in and what kind of
parents you might be serving.

835
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,080
Yeah, but I think you get
parents like that wherever, just

836
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,040
unhinged parents who are.
So yeah, of course you get.

837
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,320
I remember working quite an
affluent area and I had parents

838
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,440
who were on at me more than ever
constantly saying why you doing

839
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,960
this, my child?
Why you doing that for my child?

840
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,000
My child should get this.
My child should get that and I

841
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,080
get my parents defend their
children and treat teachers like

842
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,000
rubbish.
But to close.

843
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,280
School.
No no to close fist someone hit

844
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,480
like like this, but the school
should then be absolutely on it

845
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,600
immediately on your side banning
that person, getting the

846
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,440
authorities involved.
I'm hoping they did that.

847
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,360
Yeah, well, apparently at the
time that he's this guy was

848
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,400
saying how he just wasn't in a
position where he felt confident

849
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,760
to him.
No, that's disgusting.

850
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,600
Then that is disgusting.
Like because you didn't mention

851
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,440
that.
I just assumed in that part the

852
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,280
best happened.
I'm assuming that parent was

853
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,200
banned from the school.
Yeah, but maybe not, maybe not

854
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,440
that.
I mean that would be that would

855
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,080
be honestly discussed.
That's that point.

856
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,240
I'm like, okay, get police
involved.

857
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:28,800
That's mental.
That's not even like a school

858
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,600
thing anymore.
That is a you've been assaulted

859
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,560
by by another person.
That is ridiculous.

860
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:33,960
Yeah, I feel sorry for that
person.

861
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,520
Go work in the other school that
we had in the 1st.

862
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,760
Story, but doesn't that just
show in general?

863
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,680
I know there's more to that
story, but the the point of

864
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,240
being the difference in schools,
yeah, absolutely.

865
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,800
From one school to another,
you've got 74 different pieces

866
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,080
of workload to do on top of just
learning how to be a teacher.

867
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,800
And then the other one, you've
got a head teacher going.

868
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,080
Do you want to go to Chessington
on Friday?

869
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,760
Paid the same mad broken, broken
job.

870
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,280
Absolutely crazy, by the way.
I just thought I'd show you

871
00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:58,920
that.
I thought it was very

872
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,600
interesting.
Shall we get into the main bar

873
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,200
for this episode?
You have been doing a lot of

874
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,680
thinking about simplicity and
how it seems to be missing from

875
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,600
my education system.
So funny enough, earlier on in

876
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,560
the podcast, I said, oh, didn't
you've mentioned something that

877
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,760
I'm going to ask you later?
And my first question in this

878
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,639
whole idea of simplicity and
have teachers lost their way,

879
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:20,960
right?
Which is the kind of overarching

880
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,239
question I've got here is about
people quitting, which we know

881
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,800
is terrible right now.
Retention is awful.

882
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,600
Are people leaving this job
because we've lost our purpose?

883
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,000
And earlier on you mentioned
about the whole set, the test

884
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,320
testing thing and setting
imaginary bars.

885
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,600
Do you think that is either a a
big reason or the biggest reason

886
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,360
that teachers just don't want to
do this job anymore?

887
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,040
I think it's a big reason.
I don't know if it's the

888
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,760
biggest.
I think when when a teacher.

889
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,480
Quits it's for it's for a big
reason and that big reason is

890
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,840
usually a combination of stuff.
So I, I very rarely see a

891
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,560
teacher who's quit because of
one thing.

892
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,080
I see a teacher who goes I
didn't want to quit but XYZ and

893
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,440
all of these things added up and
and just culminated to me

894
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:02,920
leaving.
I think this is a big part of

895
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,640
it.
I think this, this idea of just

896
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,960
doing stuff because it's the
stuff we're told we have to do

897
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,920
by ourselves, like the amount of
stuff that is like, well, the

898
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,080
policy says that we need to be
doing this.

899
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,560
I was like, so yeah, who wrote
the policy?

900
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,160
We did.
Why don't you change policy

901
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,400
then?
Because every single person in

902
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,240
this room knows that what you're
asking me to do is completely

903
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:27,280
pointless.
But we all justify it by saying,

904
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,720
well, it's just what we've got
to do because we decided we've

905
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,400
got to do it.
Mad What?

906
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:32,800
Can we all just wake up?
For a second?

907
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,480
I felt like in a school that
happened so much, we can change

908
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,520
what we've got to do then
because we're in control of it,

909
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,080
we don't need to do it anymore.
That's circular thinking, isn't

910
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,880
it?
Like completely insular circular

911
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,120
thinking.
We have to, because we made this

912
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:43,800
rule.
Who made the rule?

913
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,280
We did, and I've heard you say
it in Derby.

914
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:48,600
Can we change the rule then?
Yeah.

915
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:50,640
You want to change the bar?
Can we change the policy?

916
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,880
I'm so fed up because I'm doing
all this and no one else isn't.

917
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,840
Do you use what you're doing?
Like, do you use that sheet

918
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,280
you're fitting in every time you
do something?

919
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,400
No, but we've got to.
Who said?

920
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,040
We've got to the English lead.
Who's the English lead?

921
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,000
Someone down there who also.
Doesn't me it's.

922
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,800
Like what?
Oh, mad.

923
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,600
So this so that Fort train that
you kind of explored earlier is

924
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,480
kind of the inspiration I had
for this episode, which is about

925
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,240
about losing our purpose and
teachers wanting to quit this

926
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:17,440
job.
Is it because of that

927
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,280
simplicity?
Is it because we've become too

928
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,040
complex?
We've made too many imaginary

929
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,440
bars?
There's just so much going on.

930
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,560
And we also speaking to so we're
mentioning Sophie a lot in this

931
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,400
episode.
Sophie, just like clearly we're

932
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,400
your biggest fan.
Virtual podcast host.

933
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,840
Yeah, and Spirit, she is Rai,
because of course she's a robot.

934
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,680
And she mentioned this article
from 2017 that we'd never read.

935
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:38,480
Quite surprised because
apparently it was huge.

936
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,560
And it was called The
Extraordinary Case of Mr

937
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,520
Yamazaki by Solomon Kingsnorf.
Great name, fantastic pseudonym

938
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,840
apparently unfortunately.
But if there is someone out

939
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,040
there called Solomon Kingsnorf,
get in touch because that is the

940
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,320
best name I've ever heard,
honestly.

941
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,200
It really is you.
Minded me.

942
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:54,520
Called Solomon King.
What's your name?

943
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,440
Solomon.
Solomon.

944
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,640
Solomon Solomon Kingsnorf.
I've listened to that guy.

945
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,280
Yeah, absolutely that guy.
Onto the actual article though,

946
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,880
so we will link this down below.
Do actually give it a proper

947
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,240
read because it was genuinely
like fascinating we were in or

948
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,000
reading this whole thing.
But we're just going to go over

949
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,440
some of the key points from it.
And the whole point of this

950
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,080
article is to highlight,
highlight how simple things

951
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,600
could be and I guess ironically,
spotlight how complex we've made

952
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,160
it, how overcomplicated the job
of teaching and just education,

953
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,720
teaching and learning has
become.

954
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,720
So let's go over some of the key
points and.

955
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:28,920
By the way, if you're listening,
stick to the end.

956
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,480
There is an unbelievable twist
at the end.

957
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,680
It's like it blew my mind at the
end honestly.

958
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:35,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do stick around.

959
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,880
So in this school, which is a
through school, so it's not a

960
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,840
Junior School year, it's
reception all the way to year 6,

961
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,920
right?
Primary school in the first

962
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,400
year, they have stripped back
the curriculum to just two

963
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,280
objectives.
So in reception, Dylan, what do

964
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,800
these children focus on?
It's it's it's incredible.

965
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,480
I read this learning the
alphabet by citing handwriting

966
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,840
and counting to 20 and back.
That's it.

967
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,520
It's, it's not even an idea that
a child can leave reception, not

968
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,520
be able to do these two things,
because in the current system,

969
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,760
like you said, of things sitting
on top of each other all the

970
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,880
time, these two things, actually
this head teacher has decided

971
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,960
that's what I want my children
to do at the end of reception.

972
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,640
And apart from that, they do
loads of informal learning, no

973
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,400
formal learning.
Apart from that, it's all play.

974
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,160
And it's not even learning
through play.

975
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:27,520
You know, it's not going
clipboard out.

976
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,240
And they're at this station
because there's five stations

977
00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:31,080
set up and I've got to make sure
you're pretending to be a vet.

978
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,080
I'm going to take off that
you're talking.

979
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,880
No, no, just play, Just play.
And that is it.

980
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,000
And stories.
Yeah, stories are the big one.

981
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,680
Yeah, and the vocab is built
through stories.

982
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,480
The UK average for reception
child is 1500 to 1600 words.

983
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,000
This can significantly increase
children's vocab to 3.8 to

984
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,680
4.2000.
You can more than double it just

985
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,520
from having play and stories at
the centre of everything,

986
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,160
alongside counting 20 back and
then in the alphabet.

987
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,600
So once they've done that in
reception, they move to year one

988
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,840
in this school and in year 1
it's seen as the most vital

989
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,960
year.
Every single bit of resource is

990
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,880
put into year one because the
idea is that later on in the

991
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,400
school, if these foundations are
solid, you can add stuff quickly

992
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,600
because they've already got
those foundations in place.

993
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:19,920
So why?
Why is what year one important

994
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:20,840
in this case?
I mean a year one.

995
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,720
I mean, I've always thought this
anyway, So reading this, I was

996
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:24,760
like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
yes, because I think the lower

997
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,240
down is more important for those
foundations.

998
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,640
Just quick segue because like
how many times in upper school

999
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,680
have you encountered a child who
is significantly behind in their

1000
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,720
ability to read and do basic
numeracy right?

1001
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,800
And you and you look back, if
you look back at that journey,

1002
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,920
you think, well, I'm sure we did
everything we could though to

1003
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,640
get them there.
And you go, oh, no, they spent

1004
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,280
this much time learning about
the Mayans.

1005
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,200
They did this much time learning
about there's other things.

1006
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,600
I'm not saying these subjects
are bad, but there's a point

1007
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,920
where I'm like, should they just
have focused on these extremely

1008
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,640
essential foundations?
Or more more importantly, in

1009
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,920
maths, should they have not gone
on to 17 other things before?

1010
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,640
They can do that?
Because I still think learning

1011
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,000
about different cultures is so
important.

1012
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,000
And in this school they're still
learning about the Mayans.

1013
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,800
It's just in story time, in the
afternoon.

1014
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,200
They're still doing history,
it's just in story time.

1015
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,720
It's built into narratives which
the human mind is wired to take

1016
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:12,080
in.
It's not wired to take in six

1017
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,720
individual lessons about Mayans.
We're talking about how the

1018
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:17,400
community has changed over time,
just with these young kids.

1019
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,480
These children in this school,
according to this, this article,

1020
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,080
can recite you this unbelievable
historical story about how a

1021
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,720
whole culture was founded
because they did it for a story.

1022
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,400
Great.
And then in maths, you know

1023
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,400
what?
They're not gonna learn what a

1024
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,040
fraction is until Year 5 because
there's no point.

1025
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,640
Can they do these things?
Don't over saturate it, still do

1026
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,800
maths, still do history, still
do geography, but at the level

1027
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,680
what's important for.
Them get rid of those imaginary

1028
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,640
bars you can learn fractions in
in a fraction of the time when

1029
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,480
you are 10 years old compared to
trying to learn it when you're

1030
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:48,880
6.
And you still don't really know

1031
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,040
your multiplication.
Yeah.

1032
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,440
It's like, just leave it.
Do they need to know it?

1033
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,520
Seriously, if you really think
about it, most of the

1034
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,800
curriculum, how much do we, how
much they need to know at eight?

1035
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,080
Yeah.
Does it matter if they learn at

1036
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:58,600
10?
Yeah.

1037
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,560
Like what are they do?
Are they going to get a job at

1038
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:01,000
8?
Are they?

1039
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,600
Or they're going to get that 8
year old job now.

1040
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,480
They don't know it now though,
so just as long as they're

1041
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,840
before they're 16.
Honestly just let them learn it

1042
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,520
at some point.
Maybe let their brain develop,

1043
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,080
then teach them this thing.
It'll be twice.

1044
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,400
It's so much easier.
It's mad what we do about.

1045
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,560
So in year 1, one of us 3
learning objectives because it's

1046
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,560
three now or be careful a.
Lot of weight is 3 and year, so

1047
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,480
reading and writing every
phonemographing.

1048
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,440
OK, brilliant.
Simple, right?

1049
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,880
Counting to 110 and back.
Yep.

1050
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,920
And finally mastering all number
bonds to 20.

1051
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,720
That includes not just like
knowing numbers to 20, it

1052
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:32,520
includes number ones to 19.
Yes, number ones to 18/17/16 all

1053
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,440
the way down.
So knowing what 9 + 6 is.

1054
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,480
Yeah, exactly.
Straight away all of your 1

1055
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,800
digit number bond facts.
Yeah, off by heart, that's it.

1056
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,720
So no extended writing or
unnecessary subjects at this

1057
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:45,240
point it is just mastering the
basics and again using

1058
00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:48,880
storytelling, using stories to
to enrich their idea of the

1059
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,160
world.
Exactly.

1060
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,240
That's fine at this point.
Exactly that doesn't have to be

1061
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:53,400
a formal you've got to history
book.

1062
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,280
We're writing down a fill in the
blanks in this sentence because

1063
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,880
the sentence your teacher just
told you no, let the mixed

1064
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,160
school let them have stories.
Do you know at this point I was

1065
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,040
reading through and then we we
used through the rest of the

1066
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,480
article told through the rest of
the school has interviews with

1067
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,080
head teacher himself.
Yeah, yeah.

1068
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:08,680
And I was just I was so
inspired.

1069
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,600
I was so inspired.
And this guy's basically coming

1070
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,960
and completely challenged all
this traditional UK primary

1071
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:14,760
education.
Yeah.

1072
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,000
This model of just like, well,
we've got to be sure we're

1073
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,440
always assessing children all of
the time.

1074
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:19,680
More, more, more.
We've got to write this down on

1075
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,040
this piece of paper.
And if they can't do this and

1076
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,640
obviously they're not age
expected and we need to make

1077
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,160
sure they can do that.
And it's at the detriment of

1078
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,040
every everything else.
Strip it back.

1079
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,640
Unbelievable.
Outcomes were better.

1080
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,520
I was ready to be completely
converted.

1081
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,160
And then you messaged me.
And we found out what did I

1082
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,560
message you, Dylan?
What did I message you?

1083
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,440
This is a fictional I'm.
Like no.

1084
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,880
But the the point of the
fictional piece of work was to

1085
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,080
have this impact, and it was to
make this point that we're going

1086
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,520
to talk about now.
Simplicity is lost.

1087
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,920
And actually it was about
overload.

1088
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,040
If I was to summarise the issue
or one of the biggest issues,

1089
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,520
there's several with with
teaching and education right

1090
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:03,120
now, it is overload.
It is always, always, always.

1091
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,560
What more can our kids do?
We need to make the day at

1092
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,320
school longer because we can't
fit everything in.

1093
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,440
I promise you, if we make the
day at school longer, we'll fit

1094
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,040
it and we'll have more stuff to
fit in.

1095
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,760
Simplicity.
Strip it back.

1096
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,760
Less is more.
Yeah.

1097
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:16,880
So you've come up with some
points.

1098
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,920
Yeah, so this, the whole thing
just inspired me.

1099
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,320
It made me think of some
questions and I thought I was

1100
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,320
going to ask you at the time and
I thought, no, I'm going to be

1101
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,480
clever and save it for the
podcast and ask what your

1102
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,440
opinions are.
So my first question to you,

1103
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,640
because of this over
complication which you've just

1104
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,720
highlighted, do you think
education has actually got worse

1105
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,560
for children?
No.

1106
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,560
I think education is way better
than if you look at the 70s and

1107
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,240
80s.
And I think it's really, really,

1108
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:45,480
really easy to forget that.
I think education, a child's

1109
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,840
education right now in school is
so much better than it was

1110
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,640
because we were so driven by the
fact that standards were so bad

1111
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,240
back then.
And when people say, yeah, we

1112
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:55,640
used to just sit and behave in
class, yeah, because you had to,

1113
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,200
because someone would throw a
board rubber at you.

1114
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,440
They'd throw a board rubber at
your head if you didn't.

1115
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,040
OK, We don't have that anymore.
In general, yes.

1116
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:06,520
However, I think we've gone way
too far down the route of test

1117
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,960
data, getting people through
certain things and covering as

1118
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,560
much as we possibly can to cram
it in.

1119
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,880
Because back then there was no
national curriculum and kids

1120
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,400
just did artsy farty thing,
enjoyed it, by the way.

1121
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,520
Kids just did little artsy farty
things all day.

1122
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,600
And now it's like, no, we need
to make sure kids are getting

1123
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,480
all of this and they are
definitely getting a better deal

1124
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,240
for that, but it's gone too far.
So in terms of is it worse over

1125
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:27,880
time?
Probably not worse, but it, it

1126
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,920
could be so much better.
And and we're at the point now

1127
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,760
the Nexus, I think, where it is
becoming worse because we're so

1128
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,440
obsessed with more, more, more,
more, more, more, more.

1129
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:36,880
Yeah.
So I think it's easy for someone

1130
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,280
to sit here and be like, it's
worse than ever.

1131
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,360
It's not.
It's just not Yeah, but it.

1132
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,080
But it could be so, so much
better.

1133
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,280
You're kind of thinking on a bit
of a macro level there as well.

1134
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,600
You're thinking like overall.
Yeah, overall it's way better.

1135
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,760
So let's granularize it.
Granularize another word.

1136
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,080
I made that a little bit right?
Maybe you need to do some more

1137
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,480
English sources, girls.
Yeah, clearly my education was

1138
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:55,920
not good enough.
I should be in today's

1139
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:56,760
education, actually.
Thank you.

1140
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,880
I'd have learned and that three
years old, but if we think about

1141
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,160
just some.
I was trying to think about this

1142
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,320
question.
I've been asked at loads of

1143
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:03,760
times and I'll always say what
you say.

1144
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,920
I'm like, no, at the end, you
know, I moan about things, but

1145
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,280
education for kids is better.
But then I do think that am I

1146
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,400
falling into the trap as well,
though, of being like, yeah, I

1147
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,320
think it's better by the metric
standards, the standards that we

1148
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,160
have set.
Because when I think about stuff

1149
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,400
that maybe used to be valued
more, that isn't valued anymore,

1150
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,000
stuff like mental math skills,
it just isn't valued anymore.

1151
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,000
Aura C skills.
I saw that come up on Teacher

1152
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,800
Tap this week and I was like, Oh
yeah, Aura C.

1153
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,280
It was asking, does your school
do this?

1154
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,520
I was like, no, I don't have
anyone that does Aura C

1155
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,080
anywhere.
And just other life skills in

1156
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,320
general.
Do you feel like that they're

1157
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,320
just like, have they got worse?
And if they've got worse, is it

1158
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,120
because we don't think they
matter anymore or I don't know.

1159
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,920
It made me like my mind shift.
Do you know what stuff normally

1160
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,600
gets worse because there's less
time to do it, but very rarely

1161
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,600
the stuff get worse just
because.

1162
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,000
So when we're thinking about
like oracy skills and mental

1163
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,920
strategies, 100% they've got
worse than when we were at

1164
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,880
school.
Mental strategies for us, we

1165
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,080
looked at SAT's papers from like
2002 thousand and four that area

1166
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,920
when we were taking.
And a lot of them are way more

1167
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:03,240
reliant on mental strategies.
And I think mental strategies

1168
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:05,760
have got way worse in maths,
oracy skills have got way worse

1169
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,480
in English because we've been
cramming in with, well, who

1170
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,360
needs obviously skills anymore?
Because you need to tell me what

1171
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,080
a determiner is.
What's a determiner?

1172
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,760
So.
So yeah, I completely understand

1173
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,360
what you mean.
There are certain things that

1174
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,160
are getting worse.
Absolutely.

1175
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,800
And it is because of the lack of
time put towards doing them

1176
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,760
because it's way more
complicated than ever.

1177
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,160
And we're trying to cram more in
and we are prioritising the

1178
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:27,200
wrong things.
Yeah.

1179
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,640
Like, honest to God, for a child
in a primary school, how much

1180
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,720
more important is it that they
know their number bond within 20

1181
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,160
than it is that they can
identify an adverb in a

1182
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,520
sentence?
It Do you know what identifying

1183
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,640
an adverb in a sentence is
almost completely point.

1184
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,120
It's probably.
It's OK.

1185
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:48,560
It's completely pointless.
OK, I'm just thinking about it.

1186
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:49,680
Can I say it's completely
pointless?

1187
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,280
Yeah, I can.
Because you know what?

1188
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,320
Do you know how many kids, if
they're doing really good or AC

1189
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,960
skills, would be saying adverbs
and putting it in their work

1190
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,400
anyway that it doesn't matter if
they can't?

1191
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,600
I was a teacher.
I had to teach myself what

1192
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,200
adverbs were at the start.
Does that not say something

1193
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,120
like, I could write whole essays
and I went for a whole history

1194
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:07,920
degree.
I wrote a dissertation on

1195
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,320
African history, went to grammar
school.

1196
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,680
I went to grammar school.
I was absolutely fine no matter

1197
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,200
what the situation you got.
Oh, but to be highly educated,

1198
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,360
you must be able to tell me
where the determiners are.

1199
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:18,880
Intend.
No, no, you don't.

1200
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,360
You, you have to do that because
we have to tick boxes to get

1201
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,320
through tests and things like
that.

1202
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:22,640
Yeah.
Yeah.

1203
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,720
And that's the that's the harsh
value.

1204
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:26,280
And those metrics go up, which
is why I feel like you can.

1205
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:27,840
It's easy to justify.
Yeah, education is getting

1206
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,560
better, look, because they know
what determiners are now.

1207
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,280
And my overall point here is
like, yeah, but do these things

1208
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,760
really matter?
What do we actually think is a

1209
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,720
good education?
Because I'm starting to like

1210
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,640
doubt myself and start and
starting to think.

1211
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,360
I actually think education is
maybe getting a little bit

1212
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,160
worse.
It's just that the metrics we've

1213
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,240
put in place, they go up, but I
don't value them very much

1214
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:47,600
really.
When I really think about it, I

1215
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,360
might actually don't kids, if
kids are worse at speaking and

1216
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,680
doing mental maths.
Education's got worse in my

1217
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:53,400
opinion.
I don't know.

1218
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:54,960
I think there's, I think
there's, I think there's space

1219
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,040
for that.
I think a really good point.

1220
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,760
Yeah, yeah, at second point from
again inspired by this article

1221
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,400
and again inspired by you as
well really talking about it

1222
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:03,240
earlier.
Oh, thank you.

1223
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:05,040
Well not really because I pre
planned it, but I pretend for

1224
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,680
your sake teaching.
Is it less enjoyable than ever

1225
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,720
before?
So what in terms of the lack of

1226
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:14,960
simplicity?
Yeah, because because our jobs,

1227
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,800
I'm sort of moving away from the
kids a little bit now, just

1228
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,920
thinking about the complexity of
teaching.

1229
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,040
Yeah, right.
Like you said, there's so much

1230
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,520
stuff we mentioned last week
about being overwhelmed with a

1231
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,400
million different options on how
to do things.

1232
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,320
Does do you think that makes
teaching less enjoyable, or is

1233
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,320
it the other stuff we've
mentioned?

1234
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,680
It's, it's part of it for sure.
All you need to do is talk to a

1235
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,360
teacher who's been in the job
for more than 20 years and they

1236
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,480
will all say the same thing.
Teaching is not what it used to

1237
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:40,880
be.
And there's a reason for that.

1238
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,080
It's because they used to come
in right.

1239
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,280
And, and we can think back to
when we were in school

1240
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,560
ourselves.
I feel like there was way more

1241
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,200
time when I was in Year 5, year
6, where we do like project

1242
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,040
work.
We do like a whole project on

1243
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,600
Romans.
And it was the best thing I've

1244
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,320
ever done ever.
And I'd spend an afternoon doing

1245
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:56,760
a front cover of a Roman
soldier.

1246
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,600
Yeah, yes.
And then, and then I spend the

1247
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,440
next afternoon doing an acrostic
poem.

1248
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,320
Right.
And I spend the afternoon after

1249
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,000
just looking for a Roman
textbook and copying like a the,

1250
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,360
the, the, the weaponry down and
doing like an inventory.

1251
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:08,280
God, yeah.
Do you know what I mean?

1252
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,960
Like, do you know what is that
or, but we didn't write down how

1253
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,480
the the democracy of the time
was changing because the

1254
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,320
comparisons between people
beforehand, when you're 9, you

1255
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:24,000
couldn't care less.
And it doesn't mean education is

1256
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,800
better now.
It just means that I'm less

1257
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,520
involved.
I'm less infused.

1258
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,080
And from a teacher's point of
view, I see children lessons

1259
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,600
used than ever.
And I'm relying on children who

1260
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,160
are infused by learning full
stop to carry the class more

1261
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,560
than ever.
There's always going to be

1262
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:39,760
children who it doesn't matter
what you do.

1263
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,520
I do like that story I said
earlier when we did a lesson on

1264
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,080
longitude and latitude, the most
boring lesson I've ever done in

1265
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,000
my life.
And there were one or two kids

1266
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,480
in there who were like, this is
so interesting, isn't this fun?

1267
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,040
And I was relying on them to
carry the whole class of 32

1268
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,960
kids.
And we've on my own doing 2

1269
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,320
hours of latitude.
And you've just got to look at

1270
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,560
yourself in that moment and go,
what am I doing?

1271
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,720
Like what am I doing?
We could be doing so much more

1272
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,240
fun, really cool stuff with the
children right now.

1273
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,160
And that's why I feel like what
it used to be.

1274
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,000
And I think the reason why is
because we're being told from

1275
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,200
the top down, you need to make
sure you've got all the progress

1276
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:13,280
and all the things all of the
time.

1277
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:14,280
You need to be able to write it
down.

1278
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:15,680
You need to be able to assess
them all the time.

1279
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,720
What's your teacher assessment
for this children in this?

1280
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,960
One thing about longitude and
latitude, because when it comes

1281
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,040
to Year 5, the teachers going to
be looking back at the sheet and

1282
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,400
seeing where they were in that,
and they're going to be

1283
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,520
informing that no, they're not.
Yeah.

1284
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,520
Do some teaching.
It will stick for some kids.

1285
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,360
It won't stick for others.
Do it again next year when you

1286
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,320
do geography again.
It'll stick for more.

1287
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,960
By the time they're 16, do you
know what they might know?

1288
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,600
What longitude latch it is.
Some of them might not, and

1289
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:39,600
they'll be fine.
Yeah.

1290
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,200
Because they'll never use it
because they're not interested

1291
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,160
in it.
They they won't.

1292
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,000
They're not going to go and get
a job in that field.

1293
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:44,680
It's fine.
Yeah.

1294
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,160
Whatever, it should just be
about creativity and enjoyment

1295
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,000
because yes, English, being able
to read and maths being able to

1296
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,680
add and tell the time and stuff
like that.

1297
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,480
They're the core things that
have no negotiating around them.

1298
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,160
The rest of maths and English
and the whole of everything else

1299
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,520
should be about enrichment,
enjoyment.

1300
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,880
Inspiring I have I have such
fond memories you talking about

1301
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,920
primary school then I have such
fond memories of primary school

1302
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,920
and every single one of those
memories is is through doing

1303
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,280
enriching tasks it's through
doing practical things it's

1304
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,720
through looking at stuff and
making booklets like you said,

1305
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:17,120
and I am really worried and I've
been worried about this for

1306
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,480
years and it genuinely makes me
feel strange because I because I

1307
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,080
because I feel like I'm
contributing to it.

1308
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:26,560
I like implicitly I have to is
that I just think kids are so

1309
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,400
much less happy.
That's that there's just like

1310
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,600
compared to even just when we
were kids, which, you know, you

1311
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:34,480
go back even more generations.
Maybe it's different, I don't

1312
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,600
know, Maybe we had the peak
time, which I think there's a

1313
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,000
good argument for by the way,
like 90s and early 2000s.

1314
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,000
I mean, there's a good argument
for that being like peak

1315
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,720
enjoyment for kids at school.
But I am genuinely really

1316
00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:47,640
concerned that kids are so
unhappy now on average compared

1317
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,160
to 20 years ago at school.
And we are just doubling down on

1318
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:52,440
that.
And like we are half the

1319
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:53,840
problem.
I think half the problem is

1320
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,280
outside of school.
I think it's social media and

1321
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,480
all those sorts of things.
There's massive influences that

1322
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,480
are just ruining our brain and
rotting our brains.

1323
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:00,840
Do you know what I mean?
And we don't know about them

1324
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:01,640
yet.
It's not been long enough.

1325
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,120
We'll look back in 100 years and
be like, oh.

1326
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,360
Can't believe kids had that.
The old brain rot generation,

1327
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,600
like look at them all now in
their 70s, like completely.

1328
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,840
You know, I think we might look
back, but there's another part

1329
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,640
which is specifically our fault.
If we have control.

1330
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,840
As educators, not mean, you
know, not on like, a granular

1331
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,120
level, but as education where
it's just, it's too complex and

1332
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,240
we value the wrong thing.
Yeah, like that first question I

1333
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:22,280
asked you.
We've lost sight of oracy skills

1334
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,360
and life skills and having fun
and enjoying school.

1335
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,760
It's not about enjoying school.
It's about meeting standards.

1336
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:28,720
That's it.
I had so many people message,

1337
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,160
message like comment on stuff
recently because I spoke about

1338
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,040
how we don't value stuff like
English and maths and so many

1339
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,920
people took that as what do you
mean you don't value being able

1340
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,840
to read?
Oh, well, when there's a job

1341
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,320
asking for a GCSE in PE, maybe
then that'll get some.

1342
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,400
And it's like, are you that dumb
that you can't see through

1343
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:46,920
exactly what I'm saying?
Do I need to explain it to you

1344
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:48,600
completely What I obviously mean
by that?

1345
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,000
Do you think as a teacher that I
don't think being able to read

1346
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,200
is the most important thing in
the world?

1347
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,120
Can you just for a second think
honestly just you maybe you

1348
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,640
needed more English.
Maybe that was the.

1349
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,280
Problem because you don't refer
anything.

1350
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:03,560
But the the point was just
because I value the fact that

1351
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,040
kids should be able to read and
write and stuff, I'm not saying

1352
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,200
that that's not important or I'm
not saying that being able to

1353
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,520
run a lap is just as important
as being able to read.

1354
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,240
What I'm saying is that we still
have to value these other

1355
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:16,840
things.
We still have to value the love

1356
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,400
for learning.
And when it comes to PE, I'm not

1357
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,840
saying a GCSEPE, I'm a primary
school teacher saying I want my

1358
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,600
kids to be active and that time
should not be taken away and I

1359
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,600
will die by that hill.
I think most people agree with

1360
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:28,520
that.
It's so funny.

1361
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:29,680
I love it when you get vexed by
if.

1362
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,240
You honestly like because you
know what?

1363
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,800
Again, 98% of our comments are
unbelievable and it's so kind

1364
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,080
and it's really lovely and it's
nice to read, but that's 2%.

1365
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,000
You stick with me because I
don't mind people disagreeing

1366
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,160
with me, but when they just jump
on something and just completely

1367
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,040
take out a context, I'm like,
what's wrong with you?

1368
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,840
Yeah, you just want an argument.
Yeah, I don't mind people

1369
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,160
disagree me unless they're
wrong, basically, which some

1370
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,280
people just are anyway.
Anyway, simplicity.

1371
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,600
That's a really good point.
I've got one another thing

1372
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,560
because again, you talked
earlier about that article and

1373
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,600
saying how we could just, we
could just not teach kids

1374
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,480
certain things to their older.
It doesn't actually matter as

1375
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,880
long as they learn it at some
point before they leave.

1376
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,600
Does it matter if they learn it
at a smaller level in year 4 And

1377
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,680
then you've either, can we just
teach to them in year 6 and

1378
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,880
you're 8.
So do you think that we could

1379
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,520
remove subjects from particular
year groups?

1380
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,320
Like do you think we need to
teach every single subject in

1381
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:24,960
the curriculum every year?
Because that's what currently

1382
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,040
happens.
OK, do you mean formally teacher

1383
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,480
in a stand alone lesson in a
string of lessons because that's

1384
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,280
just a unit of work or do you
mean for example, I would argue

1385
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:37,440
in this the made-up system of
there's no subject of history in

1386
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,080
year 1, right?
But there's so much reading

1387
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,200
around, you know, the the life
for Roman or that.

1388
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,560
So there's history happening
right there is DT happening

1389
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:47,800
because the children are
building something?

1390
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,240
There's art happening all the
time.

1391
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,200
Do do you mean can we get rid of
formalised ways of doing stuff

1392
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,680
or do you mean kids shouldn't do
any art at all?

1393
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,120
Let's turn it into two-part
question because they're kind of

1394
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,840
different.
My first one wasn't that when I

1395
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,480
think has a good question, we
should answer that in a second.

1396
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,760
But my first one is literally
like within the constraints of

1397
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,520
how we do it right now.
Let's say we still have

1398
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,720
formalised lessons.
We do history, we do geography,

1399
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:11,240
we do art, we do DDT, whatever.
Do do you, how essential do you

1400
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:14,000
think it is that those subjects
are taught every year if we're

1401
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,280
sticking to this current system?
I, I, I would absolutely keep

1402
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,880
them every year.
I would because I think if we're

1403
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,320
sticking to this system, I think
dropping them feeds into that

1404
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,680
narrative of English and maths,
English and maths, English,

1405
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,280
maths.
Right now when we drop off a

1406
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,720
history for a term, we're
talking about year 6 leading up

1407
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:32,840
to Sats.
We would both sit here and go.

1408
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,400
That is disgusting how we would
drop off stuff for English and

1409
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,560
maths and do extra stuff in the
afternoon.

1410
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,360
I would be really reluctant for
a whole year, in Year 4, let's

1411
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,040
say, to not do any geography or
not do any art.

1412
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:45,720
I think the way we do it can
change.

1413
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,480
I'd be really reluctant to drop
something off.

1414
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,720
Completely.
Even if so, you kind of assumed

1415
00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:51,160
that I was saying replace it
with maths and English.

1416
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,520
Even if we replace it just by
doing a bigger mastery, more

1417
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,240
enriching approach on another
subject.

1418
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:57,880
So art gets six weeks.
Do you know what I'd do?

1419
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,800
I'd turn it into, I'd go back to
that idea.

1420
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,200
A lot of schools still do this
of topic.

1421
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,320
Yeah, I'd go back to the idea of
let's have a topic that runs

1422
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,600
through and we really enrich
from Romans.

1423
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,640
But you can do a bit of
geography, you can talk about

1424
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,000
their use of rivers and things
like that.

1425
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,680
You can do a bit of DT.
You can do some art.

1426
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,040
If you have a topic, it becomes
more natural to feed them in.

1427
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,360
And we don't need to obsess over
how much time we're spending on

1428
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,280
everything because the topic is
Romans.

1429
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,480
And obviously history will
probably be the biggest bulk of

1430
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,200
that.
But then the next time you do a

1431
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,320
topic, it might be on, like you
said, rivers and the bulk is on

1432
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:28,600
geography.
But then you can still feed

1433
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,480
everything in.
So I think topic work helps with

1434
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,080
that.
No, that's, that makes sense.

1435
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:33,680
I, I agree topic.
It's kind of what you that was

1436
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,240
kind of your first point, wasn't
it, about less formalised, more

1437
00:56:37,240 --> 00:56:40,160
just integrated industry.
I I, I find it mad that we don't

1438
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:41,600
all do that.
I think it's so obvious that

1439
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,720
topics are better.
Yeah, and and, but most schools,

1440
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:45,680
I'd say, I think.
They're move, a lot of moves,

1441
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,160
doesn't it, over time, Yeah,
there was that big move to topic

1442
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:48,760
work.
Yeah.

1443
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,040
And there's that basically when
the Ofsted framework came and it

1444
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,240
was like each individual subject
might be deep dived.

1445
00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:55,640
Yeah, I think there was a big
move back then to like, Christ,

1446
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:58,560
if history gets deep dived.
And I'm doing a topic on

1447
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:01,080
fairgrounds because it's ADT
topic, let's just say, which is

1448
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,240
more about building something
and seeing how mechanics work

1449
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:05,600
and it's about science.
How on earth can I get a history

1450
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,680
deep dive in there?
So I think it was very much then

1451
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:09,840
went, okay, let's take history
out, have history subject

1452
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,760
leaders again and let's really
focus on the and the skills part

1453
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,280
of history that became way more
like focused on and I think that

1454
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,600
moved a lot of schools away from
topic.

1455
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,240
You're totally right.
I literally remember people

1456
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,680
panicking saying Oh no, often
have now said our school's not

1457
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,360
very good because we do topics
and we and we couldn't

1458
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,440
confidently the children
couldn't confidently say I'm

1459
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,080
learning about geography today.
Yeah, exactly.

1460
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:32,640
And I was like cool, that's
brilliant.

1461
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,760
Yeah, who cares, Who cares?
OK, tell at the end of the year,

1462
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,200
by the way, that stuff there was
good geography.

1463
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,960
There you go done.
No one care, honestly.

1464
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:39,440
And also that was an adverb
just.

1465
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:41,520
Just went into a secondary
school.

1466
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,280
Yeah, I have geography teacher.
That's weird.

1467
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,280
I remember being like, oh, I've
never done geography as a thing.

1468
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,680
That's cool.
I went to geography and they

1469
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:51,800
were talking about I've done
loads of this.

1470
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,120
Yeah, it didn't make a
difference.

1471
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:54,680
No, of course it didn't.
Of course it didn't make a

1472
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:55,640
difference.
We're happy doing it with

1473
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:56,240
science.
Yeah.

1474
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,000
Don't learn chemistry at primary
school, do we?

1475
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:00,200
Biology.
Then you've got to know if it's

1476
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,160
a physics lesson or not.
No, you don't.

1477
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,960
Honestly, No you don't.
You're 8.

1478
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,760
Do you know?
We can say it right, but it's

1479
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,280
just not the most important
thing in the world.

1480
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,040
Do you think there's any parts
of the curriculum that we could

1481
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:11,640
actually just cut?
Yeah, we said this loads.

1482
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:13,240
I think there's loads.
I think there's so much.

1483
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,760
And I would start in maths and
English, I'd start there because

1484
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,760
you look at the, the amount
that's written in the curriculum

1485
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,480
for maths and English.
It's like reams and reams and

1486
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,400
reams compared to 2 pages of
history, like history, job fee,

1487
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,760
DT, music, art.
It's already quite open to

1488
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:28,640
interpretation and you just need
to do a certain amount of thing

1489
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,760
like we, we, I, I'd go to
English and I'd cull so much

1490
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,720
spag spending punctuation and
grammar.

1491
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,880
Go to maths and I would simplify
it so much.

1492
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,600
I would honestly get rid of so
much lower down in the school.

1493
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,120
I I, I really would because as
soon as you see it as a four

1494
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,520
year journey in key stage 2 or a
three-year journey in key stage

1495
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,240
1 or A7 year journey in primary
school, as soon as you start

1496
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,000
looking at it that way, it makes
so much more sense to have it

1497
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:52,960
top heavy.
Yeah.

1498
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:56,720
Because do you know what if you
just smash the fundamentals even

1499
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,200
up to year 4, genuinely, if all
of your kids are really good at

1500
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,240
the fundamentals in year 4, year
5:00 and 6:00, you really can

1501
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:04,960
introduce stuff and learn it
within a day.

1502
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:06,880
Yeah, yeah.
What what now takes two weeks.

1503
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:08,240
Would you like.
Oh, I've got to go back over the

1504
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,600
stuff because year 4 didn't do
this properly because year 4

1505
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,360
were going back over the stuff
previously and they were trying

1506
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:13,520
to introduce new stuff all the
time.

1507
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,360
If you really smash the
fundamentals lower down and it's

1508
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,560
I can see why leaders don't like
it because it leaves only two

1509
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,360
years to get in there.
So oh God, what if they don't

1510
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,640
get it?
But it's not riskier because if

1511
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,840
you absolutely smash the
fundamentals, there's no way

1512
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:27,200
they won't understand the next.
Exactly.

1513
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:28,960
But it's it's a game, isn't it?
And people don't want to take

1514
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:30,400
that risk.
What if they didn't understand

1515
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:31,680
the fundamentals?
Now they're not going either.

1516
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:32,920
OK, Well, they don't mean they
won't.

1517
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,200
You know what?
They weren't going to get either

1518
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,400
anyway if they didn't get the
fundamentals after you put four

1519
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:37,560
years of just doing the
fundamentals.

1520
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,800
I tell you what, if you were
doing both at the same time,

1521
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:41,600
they wouldn't, they wouldn't
know either of them still now

1522
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,040
anyway, so it doesn't matter.
Like you're it's the wrong way

1523
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:45,400
of thinking.
Yeah, and I know it.

1524
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,120
You know what?
I know it's true because COVID,

1525
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,960
COVID happened and you know what
Kids missed tonnes of education

1526
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,520
and I taught some of those kids
in year 6, two years later after

1527
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:55,600
they missed so much stuff.
And you know what?

1528
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,000
A tonne of those objectives
where they would have had two

1529
00:59:58,000 --> 00:59:59,640
years of oh, we have a little
bit in here, a little bit in

1530
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,040
year 4, a little bit in Year 5.
They hadn't seen it to year six.

1531
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:02,880
And guess what?
They learned it.

1532
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:04,760
Honestly, it felt like just as
quick because they're like, oh,

1533
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:05,920
our brains are bigger now.
I just get this.

1534
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,080
Yeah, yeah.
It barely took me any more time

1535
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:09,200
with some of those things to
teach.

1536
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,680
I'm not saying or we can just
stop sending kids to year 4 and

1537
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,160
five, but.
COVID had I think a much bigger

1538
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,720
impact on the social side and
the relationships between school

1539
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:19,400
and home, etcetera.
Huge impact there.

1540
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,760
Obviously had a big impact on
academic side, obviously.

1541
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,520
But as teachers, that's what
we're quite good at and I think

1542
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,160
there were ways that we could
bring children up and through

1543
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:28,760
and there was lots of money
putting extra stuff there.

1544
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,280
I think that was more solvable
than the social side.

1545
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,320
Yeah, but I found it super
interesting that there was

1546
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,720
almost like a straight after
COVID being a year 6 teacher

1547
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,160
specifically, right?
I was like, Oh, this didn't make

1548
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,400
too much of an impact because
it's like, oh, because the older

1549
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,680
kids that already kind of got
their foundations in place, it

1550
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:46,800
wasn't actually so hard to then
teach them stuff on top of that,

1551
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,760
even if they'd missed a bit
three years later as a year 6

1552
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,240
teacher, it was when I started
being like, Oh my God, like the,

1553
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,720
the amount of gaps I'm seeing
now and the lack of mental,

1554
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,440
mental math skills and Orsi in
general because they're just

1555
01:00:58,440 --> 01:00:59,760
not.
They missed school in like your

1556
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,160
reception in year 1.
They actually missed the

1557
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,040
foundations being taught in the
1st place.

1558
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,040
That's when you saw it like
really impact.

1559
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,280
And it's like, Oh, doesn't that
just reinforce the idea that we

1560
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,720
should really, really, really
just hammer those foundations

1561
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,080
and not overcomplicate
everything when they're five?

1562
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,800
It doesn't make any sense, but
doesn't matter because that

1563
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,920
proves it's obviously I didn't
mean this is next doesn't mean

1564
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:19,880
anything.
We don't, we don't, we don't

1565
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,400
look at hard evidence.
And this is government.

1566
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,560
Yeah, I think you know the idea
less is more is really

1567
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:29,720
important.
And if we think about, there's

1568
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,080
some people who sit here and go,
well, you know, because of this

1569
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,000
complexity, stuff's improved.
And it's almost, almost like

1570
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,480
what I said earlier, it's like,
Oh yeah, OK, education is better

1571
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,360
than the 70s.
If you looked at data from the

1572
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,520
70s to now, you could justify
anything, right?

1573
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,400
You could say just because
education is better and, and

1574
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,600
like numbers are better, you
could say, well, everything's

1575
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:47,880
better.
And isn't this fantastic for our

1576
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:49,520
children?
And there's probably, there's

1577
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,800
probably some things that are
benefited from being more

1578
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:56,480
complex in terms of, I think,
you know, the, the standard of

1579
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,440
subject knowledge as a teacher
getting higher, in my opinion,

1580
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,040
of what you should know.
I, I think that is an overall

1581
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,000
good thing for our children.
I think having that high

1582
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,720
standard.
And you know what teachers need

1583
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:08,960
to know more.
I'm not saying they used to know

1584
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,440
less at all, but you have to
know more now because the

1585
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,320
curriculum is more dense.
You teach yourself stuff as you

1586
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,200
go through.
There's more maths to know,

1587
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,560
there's more English to know.
OK, like I said, we taught

1588
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:19,760
ourselves what adverbs are
essentially.

1589
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,680
But do you know what, as a
teacher, I think we should know

1590
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,200
what adverts are.
I think we should be able to

1591
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,760
with the children, even if we do
drop the bar slightly and say

1592
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,680
let's just focus on these
fundamentals because they're so

1593
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,200
important.
There are always going to be

1594
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,800
children who we need to push on
right and do more with.

1595
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,400
And I think as the teacher, we
absolutely need to have a

1596
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,600
higher, much higher level of
knowledge and be almost a master

1597
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,680
of stuff to be able to allow the
children to move 123 steps.

1598
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:44,640
Forward.
There's more I think.

1599
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:45,920
That's good.
Yeah, yeah.

1600
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:47,240
I think I'm a good example of
that.

1601
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,040
I'm sorry to reference, I'm in
the year 6 of the 50th.

1602
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,440
Time are you in Year 6 Is it
music?

1603
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,240
Is it?
Oh yeah, jamming out the

1604
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,960
photocopy every morning because
I've got 74 tests to write.

1605
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:58,720
I've got it's test week every
other week actually.

1606
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,320
But like, that's a really that
just made me think because I

1607
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,280
teach kids now where do you know
what with GPS, grammar,

1608
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,880
punctuation, spelling, Yes, I
think it's over the top.

1609
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:08,800
I agree with everything you
said.

1610
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,080
But there are some kids in my
class where because they are of

1611
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,520
that just that higher ability, I
can teach them all those really

1612
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,480
complex terminologies.
And then when it comes to their

1613
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,840
writing, it's so easy to say to
them, I can use that language to

1614
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,000
them because as a teacher, I'd
be, I might be able to unpick

1615
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,640
writing.
I don't care if the kids know.

1616
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:27,080
But for some kids, I can say,
look, when you put your front of

1617
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,360
the verbal there and you didn't
use it as a verbal phrase later,

1618
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,080
it made a weird flow to this
sentence.

1619
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:32,920
And they get that I'm like that
sick.

1620
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,200
But I don't think every kid
needs to know that.

1621
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,760
I just don't think they do.
And I'd say that's probably the

1622
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:41,240
only thing I think has improved
is as a teacher myself, there's

1623
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:43,720
way more I need to know.
And I think you're a better

1624
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,040
teacher the more you know.
You cannot know everything.

1625
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:47,280
I'm not saying you should do
everything.

1626
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,040
I teach myself about Egyptians
every time I do Egyptians.

1627
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,360
That's completely normal.
You can't do everything but the

1628
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,440
base level stuff of maths and
English in particular.

1629
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,160
I think you being the expert is
absolutely a good thing and you

1630
01:03:58,160 --> 01:03:59,680
build that up over time.
Yeah, sure.

1631
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,760
So those complexity isn't
inherently bad is what you're

1632
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,320
saying.
It's just that we've kind of

1633
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,960
overkilled it in this.
There was a lot of room for

1634
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,640
simplicity that we've lost.
And I think for the kids,

1635
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:13,480
complexity is bad.
I think for the children, simple

1636
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,640
goals where we're not reaching
those simple goals, let's not

1637
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,000
add goals to it.
Yeah, let's be really simple

1638
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,480
with them and smash them.
And let's not forget the whole

1639
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,560
point of this, which Dylan has
reinforced a lot for this

1640
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:28,560
episode, is we make the bars.
Everything is made-up.

1641
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,960
Don't forget that.
We've set all of these

1642
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,000
boundaries.
We decide what we even value.

1643
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:35,520
And all these metrics have gone
up.

1644
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,040
It's like, yeah, because we
don't look at the other ones

1645
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:38,800
anymore.
We don't even measure mental

1646
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:39,520
mass anymore.
So.

1647
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,120
So apparently that doesn't
matter anymore.

1648
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,560
But to who?
That's that's the point I want

1649
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:44,880
to make of this.
You know, I think we've lost our

1650
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,960
way a little bit with education
and the real purpose of it.

1651
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,000
It's driving me away from the
profession a little bit that is

1652
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,880
making me disengaged from it
because I don't think my purpose

1653
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,720
of teaching aligns with the
system of education.

1654
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,880
How often have you finished the
day of teaching and genuinely

1655
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:04,440
thought that less than half of
that was really, really having

1656
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,560
an impact that's measurable and
good on the children?

1657
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:09,040
And how much have you thought I
could have done without that?

1658
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,560
You know, I wish I did.
I wish I read that class book

1659
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:12,960
for longer because the kids are
so engaged.

1660
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,960
They're getting more out of
reading this story than doing an

1661
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,560
extra 2 tasks in the drug free
lesson which was genuinely

1662
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:19,440
pointless.
Do you know what?

1663
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,360
More than half of the time and I
think that's where I've been

1664
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,120
pushed over.
If it was, maybe if it was less

1665
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,520
than half the time, maybe I'd
still be a bit more optimistic.

1666
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:28,360
It's gone over that boundary for
me.

1667
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,120
More than half of my week.
I would finish a day, three days

1668
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:33,520
a week.
I will finish and think I could

1669
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:33,960
have called.
Is it?

1670
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:34,760
Three days a week, The whole
week.

1671
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,440
Yeah, true, true.
If I worked five days, two of my

1672
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,200
two of my three days a week, I
definitely, definitely exposed.

1673
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:44,520
Yeah, big time.
I definitely finished the week

1674
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:48,360
think the day thinking I didn't
need to do half that stuff.

1675
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,280
It was boring, pointless.
The kids weren't inspired.

1676
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:52,200
It was relentless.
It's all complex now.

1677
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:54,240
They think they're rubbish at
these things because we did 72

1678
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:55,960
things at once.
And you know, what's sad very

1679
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,360
quickly is when it's in maths
and English, you think that

1680
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,480
that's when it's sad because
there's so much maths and

1681
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,960
English that has such an impact.
And you finished, you finish

1682
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,560
doing English sometimes and you
just think, why did I just spend

1683
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:08,200
40 minutes looking at Test style
questions that start with which

1684
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:09,280
word?
It shows you this.

1685
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,360
I could have done such a better,
more inspiring lesson about word

1686
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,640
meaning and understanding what
words mean without having to do

1687
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,680
it in this test our way.
Which, by the way, I only have

1688
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,520
to do because we all decided
that's how we measure child's

1689
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,880
ability to read.
It's insane.

1690
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:24,200
And there it comes back to that
point, doesn't it?

1691
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,160
I think we've I think we've
hammered that point home in this

1692
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:27,160
episode.
I hope you enjoyed it,

1693
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:28,680
everybody.
Now, Dylan, well done, by the

1694
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:29,880
way.
Oh, yeah, for making it through

1695
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:31,480
this episode.
We've only had to do hang on,

1696
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,120
let me just count.
Sorry, guys, you have to wait

1697
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:38,760
for this.
No, to sorry, 12345678910 only

1698
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:40,280
12 edits.
So if you've noticed a lot of

1699
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,760
cutting around in this episode,
unlike normal where we're pretty

1700
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:46,320
uncut, it is because Dylan is
imploding in his in his head.

1701
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,440
When I talk, OK, maybe it's
happening now.

1702
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,440
As soon as I feel fine, when I'm
listening to you, I'm like, I'm

1703
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,680
ready to make my point.
I start talking and my nose just

1704
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:56,640
goes close.
Yeah, close that off.

1705
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:58,400
Can't breathe anymore.
So I appreciate it.

1706
01:06:58,560 --> 01:06:59,840
I think most people are ill
right now.

1707
01:06:59,960 --> 01:07:01,480
Listen, you've done well.
You've done well.

1708
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:02,760
I've done well because you're
the one editing.

1709
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:04,440
Yeah, I am.
And normally you've had a

1710
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:06,680
meltdown by now, so well done,
you've made it all the way over.

1711
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,920
How about 5 meltdowns?
Hopefully you cut them out.

1712
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,200
I'll tell you what, I'm going to
make a super edit.

1713
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,480
Look forward to episode 100.
Right, so we're we're looking at

1714
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,360
this now and we're going to let
you behind the curtains to see

1715
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,240
how much this was actually
affecting.

1716
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,080
We have recorded for one hour
20.

1717
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:23,560
So whatever you're on now,
that's how much Hayden had to

1718
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,000
cut out because of me not being
able to.

1719
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,400
Breathe Dylan's snotting right
and and with that, I'll leave

1720
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,920
you thinking of Dylan's not see
you next see you next time

1721
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:33,360
episode 99 so.
Close.

1722
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,040
Sweet night.
Night ice cream for the whole

1723
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:35,400
thing?
No.

1724
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:35,800
OK.