Ep 97: The Harsh Realities of Teaching: 7 Things We Need To Talk About

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Hello, everyone, and welcome
back to another episode of Teach

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Sleep Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name is

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Hayden.
And you really are getting your

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money's worth out of that
jumper, aren't you?

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This is a brand new jumper.
I worn it one time, then

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yesterday.
Yeah, but shut up.

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Don't expose me.
Well, before we started, you

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said that I look like some kind
of person that's just been

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brought off the street.
So listen.

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You know the rules of how I buy
clothes, right?

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I go shopping once a year, all
right?

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Buy one item.
I buy one outfit and I wear it

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and I wear it and I wear it
until you take the make and

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eventually I'll get something
new.

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Well, the only reason it's stuck
in my head that you wrote

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yesterday is because we were at
the Beck Convention and

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obviously we did a lot of
filming, a lot of content

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creation.
Now that we are, I suppose, huge

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content creators, huge ones.
Weird thing to say, isn't it?

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But yeah, so let's just catch up
about our week.

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I suppose it is going to be
dominated by the fact we did go

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to a bet how many times we're
going to say that word today?

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You'd think that, wouldn't you?
But I've, I'm jumping in.

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I'm going to ruin your little
schedule that you've got on your

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head because I don't really
care.

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Because last week you were like,
oh, you didn't think of a rile

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up Dylan section, did you?
You don't contribute anything to

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this podcast.
That's what you said to me.

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This camera, seriously, I, I
don't think it was even off

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camera.
I think it was on the podcast

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what everyone did.
So this week I'm going to start

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with rile up Dylan section.
All right, quick ones.

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OK, so these are things I've
seen on the Internet this week

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that just I thought that's going
to anger Dylan, so I'll read it

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to him in the podcast.
So what?

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A brilliant way to start off the
episode.

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I know, right?
I'm going to get.

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You on the zone?
I'm going to.

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You'll be in the mood after this
to look really passionate.

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All right, here we go.
So first one, someone said

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online when teaching times
tables, is it 1 * 4 or is it 4 *

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1?
Because I got a rollicking from

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another teacher this week saying
that I was doing it wrong for

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the kids.
When I said 8 * 4 instead of 4 *

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8, right?
OK, there's two parts to this

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answer.
OK, the first part is it depends

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what times table you're doing in
terms of there is actually a

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right way to have it.
OK, so technically, technically

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there is.
I think this is going to

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summarise the problem of
teaching the meta here, so stick

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with me.
If you're doing the four times

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table, the four should come at
the end of the number sentence,

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yes, Because let's say 2 * 4.
That is saying you've got four.

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2 * 3 * 4 is saying that you've
got 4 three times, right?

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So when you're doing the four
times table, the four should

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come second because the first
number dictates how many of that

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number you've got.
OK, So if you're doing the four

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times table, it's 8 * 4.
If you're doing the eight times

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table, it's 4 * 8.
That is actually officially the

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correct way of showing it and
doing it because 4 * 8 is

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different 8 * 4 in that there
are groups of eight in one and

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there are groups of four in
another.

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OK, so if you were to draw it
out, it is true to say that if

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you're learning the 8 times
table, the 8 should come second,

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if you're learning the four
times table, the four should

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come second, etc.
OK, I think this is mad.

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However, what do you mean mad
because.

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It's just correct.
When learning them.

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No, no, no, no, not listening to
what I'm saying, I'm saying that

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that is literally the definition
of the way we write it and what

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it means.
OK, That is indisputable, right?

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The point though I'm making here
is who cares?

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In terms of if you're teaching
the children a times table fact,

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I'd say I'd argue it's good
practise to be showing them both

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way rounds at the same time, to
show the commutativity of

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multiplication, to show that it
doesn't matter which way around

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we have the numbers, the answer
remains the same.

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Yeah, I think there's a teaching
point in there.

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I think rollicking a teacher for
it being the wrong way round is

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absolutely insane.
And it's just setting the wrong

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precedent altogether because if
you're going to go down the

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route of, well, actually it's
this because of XYZ.

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And there are real reasons like
I just explained, that's an

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opportunity to help your staff
and to give them that

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information and say, oh, by the
way, this is actually how it's

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meant to be.
Like I'm pretty sure talking to

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you, you didn't have a clue
which way it was meant.

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To be no, no, no.
I knew that thing you said at

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the start.
OK.

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So I find it interesting that
you went down it because I just,

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when I think more about it, I
think it's totally irrelevant in

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all situations ever.
I don't think there is a

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situation where it's relevant to
know that information to the

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point where that information is
one of those things where it's

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like, that's a fun fact, but it
has no practical use in the real

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world in any way.
I think it does have a practical

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use in terms of if you're
grouping things by 8 but you're

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putting in a bag or something,
it doesn't matter, but I'm just

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saying if you were to draw out 4
* 8 and 8 * 4, you would

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actually and should draw
different things, okay?

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OK, the drawings.
All right, so.

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So, So what I mean is in a real
life context, if you're

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multiplying, if you're doing 6 *
4, yeah, you should have groups

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of four.
Yeah.

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If you're doing 4 * 6, you
should have groups of six.

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So I'm just saying that is
correct what this person's

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saying.
But my, my wider point here is

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it doesn't actually matter in
this context.

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Yeah.
And when you're talking to your

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staff, if you want that to be a
focus for whatever reason, I

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don't necessarily think that
should be a focus when you're

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doing timetables.
By the way, I'm not saying that

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children should be and shown
this and it's the be all and end

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all.
I think you can learn your

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timetables really well without
it.

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But if you want to be that
person who says, well, actually

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it's actually like this, like I
just did, then yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You should do it in a supportive
way that just says, oh, by the

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way, did you know it?
Because there's no reason at all

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why everyone should know that.
For example, listening to this

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podcast, if someone's listening
to me then going, what are you

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on about?
I never knew that.

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That's it doesn't matter.
You can still teach timetables,

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really.
Effectively, I guess that's the

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point going.
I think I'm thinking of it

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really in, in the context of
this, of this, because when you

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talk about drawing it, you
absolutely, absolutely you are

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right because you would draw 8
lots of four differently, 4 lots

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of eight, I get it.
But in the context of the kids

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are learning their timetable
facts, they're learning 8 * 4 or

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learning 4 * 8.
It's like, does it, does it

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matter which way you said it to
the kid?

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Like the kids now not going to
learn that fact differently.

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They're just not.
They're not going to learn that

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that 32 is the answer
differently or less efficiently

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because you said 4 * 8 or 8
times.

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Four.
No, no, no, I agree with that.

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But if you look at any times
table resource, if you're

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learning a times table, the
second number will always be the

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times table you're learning
because that's just how it's

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written out.
And that is literally what it

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means.
But.

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Then like until TTRS, the next
sheet is in the other way

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around, so clearly they're both.
Valid.

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Yeah, it makes it completely.
And you should be teaching your

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children.
I teach my children all the

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time.
Like let's say for example, in

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year 4, we've been doing a lot
of the sixes, sevens, nines, and

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the children might be really
secure in their threes, fours,

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fives, etcetera.
Yeah.

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So if you get to a point where
it's 7 * 5 and we're still

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learning our sevens, so it might
be written down as 5 * 7 because

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technically it's seven times.
Table question.

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Yeah, I say to my kids all the
time, you need to be clever

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about this.
Do you know either of the times

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tables?
Like, yeah, well, yeah, I know

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my fives.
OK, cool.

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So if you're not quite, you
don't quite know your sevens yet

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and you're not confident in
counting your sevens

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independently yet.
Yeah.

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You're not going to not answer
that question.

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You're not going to be in a
situation there.

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Well, no, Mr. Price said the
seven comes seconds or I'm

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counting in seconds, but that's
just ridiculous.

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So you teach the children to
have strategies to overcome it.

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And I would want my children to
look at it and go, well I'm

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going to count my fives because
I know that 5 * 7 is the same as

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7 * 5.
That's where the language lots

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of comes in hand, isn't it?
5 lots of seven or seven lots of

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five and that's.
What the multiplication sign

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means?
It means lots of.

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So when you replace it with lots
of What I said makes perfect

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sense. 5 lots of seven is
clearly actually different to

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seven lots of.
Five.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Turns out that that was a

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submission by me, and Dylan was
the one giving the arguing.

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So I didn't.
Well, I didn't.

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I'm glad I got 2 because that
didn't work.

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I didn't.
What rather me up was the

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attitude of some teachers who
think they can shout at other

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adults, as they say.
I've seen that so often in

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schools and that are so toxic
where you forget that you're

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just another human.
Why are you talking to that

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person like that?
Like, yeah, yeah, I'm sure we've

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all been guilty of it.
And does it matter enough?

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Like, like you said, there's
some things that just don't

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matter enough to even make a
thing of it.

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Yeah.
And some things that do matter

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enough to you absolutely should
make a thing of it.

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And sometimes they get confused
and it's like, that was not one

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of those things.
No.

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If if in that times table that
the person was teaching them the

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wrong answers to that times
table, yeah, yeah, pick it up

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and say what's going on here?
Yeah.

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Or like, for example, right,
they were doing that eight times

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table that lesson and they're
like that lesson was the 8 times

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table and they said it the other
way around.

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And then they started counting
in fours.

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Then maybe that person will be
like you are kind of like you're

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focusing on the eights today.
Like you can link it back to

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your fours.
But maybe you did, I don't know

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what there might be something
there.

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Here's the second one.
OK, Because hopefully this one

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will get you a bit more annoyed
and get you get get some juice

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out of this.
This answer someone said got

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docked an afternoon's pay today
for having the audacity to ask

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for some of my PPA time to go to
my own child's school event.

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So they lost their afternoon of
pay.

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What?
Wait, what?

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So was it PPA or not?
It was her PPA and she said can

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I can I use some of it to go to
my child's wasn't in all of it.

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Can I use some of my PPA to go
to my child's school event?

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I hate this so much.
You get me robbed now.

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I can't believe the culture we
have in school.

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We are teachers in a school
where we suddenly then when it's

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I'm the parent and want to go to
a school event school.

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Some schools just don't seem to
realise that that's obviously

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important.
The same school, by the way,

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this person's school probably
runs workshops for parents and

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they're like, how can we get
more parents to come to the

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school?
What can we do to incentivise

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them?
It'd be great if they can come,

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wouldn't it?
Yeah.

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Can I go to my kids one and it's
in the one down the road?

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00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:01,800
No.
What?

226
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,720
And secondly, it's in PPA.
What's?

227
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,120
Wrong with you.
PPA should I?

228
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,280
I think PPA should be completely
flexible anyway as a perk of the

229
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,440
job because there's so many
negatives to this job that we

230
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,680
talk about all the time.
PPA should be completely fluid

231
00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:17,640
because we've got so much to do
that doesn't even fit into PPA.

232
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,160
So much of our job, only like
half of it even fits into PPA.

233
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,960
And people do loads of extra
stuff at home anyway, So if I

234
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,000
want to use that time for
something like going to my

235
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,640
child's school event, which I
know is important because I'm a

236
00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,960
teacher who works in a different
school, I think it's completely

237
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,000
insane when SLT or people in the
top just are so like know about

238
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,560
it.
How likely do you think it is,

239
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,120
right that that member of staff
who just got doxed and pay

240
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,880
didn't still get the entirety of
their job done for that week or

241
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,000
the next week or whatever they
were going to do in their PPA,

242
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:52,840
yet now just didn't get paid as
much for?

243
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,600
It exactly.
So how much of the time were

244
00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,320
they going to spend at home to
do the work anyway?

245
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:57,240
That's what you're saying.
Yeah.

246
00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,440
So we live in this such a mad
dichotomy in this job where if

247
00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,120
you do anything that's seen as
less within your job, that's

248
00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,640
just seen as by toxic SLT
anyway, that's seen as you doing

249
00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,840
less.
Oh, your markings not as good.

250
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,880
Well, what's going on?
Your marking needs to be better.

251
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,040
Oh you didn't.
You didn't spend all of your PPA

252
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,720
in this one room where I need to
know you are.

253
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,400
How dare you.
You clearly didn't spend your

254
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,240
PPA in the way you should.
Anything less within the

255
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,280
confines of the school building
is picked up upon and is awful

256
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,720
and is dreadful.
But nothing is ever ever nodded

257
00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,280
towards in these toxic schools
as to the extra mile you go

258
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,880
every single week.
So it can only be a negative,

259
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,480
like if you do less of something
it's always bad.

260
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,000
It's never taken into account
the fact that I've done 10 times

261
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,280
more outside of school.
I did 4 hours of planning on the

262
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,120
Sunday, but because I took half
an hour of my PPA to want to go

263
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,560
and see my son show at a
different school, I've been

264
00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,680
docked pay.
Where's my pay given that should

265
00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:51,040
be 8?
Times more, there's no way that

266
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,200
member of staff then didn't do
like ever that work that they

267
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:56,600
would have done in that time if
they were at school.

268
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,280
So basically they just got they
just got taken.

269
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,600
So that pay got docked.
They did all the work anyway.

270
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,840
They just rescheduled their day.
What they were really asking was

271
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,800
hello SLT, do you mind if I
slightly reschedule my day

272
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,240
today?
I'm doing all this work in my

273
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,640
undirected time anyway And to be
honest with you, I work at home

274
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,800
all the time anyway, so I'll
just tag on an extra hour to the

275
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,960
work I do at home just so I can
go and watch my kid at the

276
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,440
school play.
No, no, because I can't monitor

277
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,120
the work you're doing at home.
Can I say how do I know you're

278
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,200
doing an extra half an hour
Right.

279
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:21,400
But I take that pay away from
you.

280
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,880
Ridiculous.
Absolutely.

281
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:24,920
So I think it's rolled yourself
up there.

282
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:25,760
Yeah, I did.
Yeah.

283
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,000
Yeah, I got got into it as.
Well, that's insane.

284
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,680
That's rug me up incredibly
because it's it's so common.

285
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,160
Yeah, I, I can't speak to people
right now and say enough.

286
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,400
Some people work in a school and
they might comment on a railway

287
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,160
post or something on social
media and they'll say, well, I

288
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,160
don't see this happening.
I don't, I haven't noticed this.

289
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,080
I don't see that.
I don't think this is a problem.

290
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:47,040
What?
What do you want?

291
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,400
About this, this is this is
someone who's literally said

292
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,600
this has happened to them and it
happens all the time.

293
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,120
And I just think that there are
some wrong ands in charge of

294
00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,040
schools.
There are there are because

295
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,920
because they have this business
mentality of like cutthroat, you

296
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,000
know, business and it's just not
this.

297
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,120
We work in a school.
Anytime ever I see a school

298
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,520
reluctant to let a teacher go
and do a school event with their

299
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,200
own child, it's a huge red flag
to me that that school doesn't

300
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,040
have the right ethos or
atmosphere and I wouldn't want

301
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,360
to be anything to do that.
Yeah, Yeah.

302
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,000
Those relationship is between
work that the whole idea like

303
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,120
worker and boss.
It's that relationship isn't it

304
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,960
is just different in schools.
And if you don't think it is,

305
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,240
then yeah, you're probably on
the wrong side of this, of this

306
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,760
argument of you.
But Speaking of businesses,

307
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,560
because you were talking about,
you know, that idea of it being

308
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:34,960
run like a business.
We've like you've said, we've

309
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,920
been to bet this week.
Let's let's have a quick

310
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,560
reflection.
Let's just get like our because

311
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:41,400
we're going to talk about things
that were inspired by bet in

312
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,480
this episode, right.
But let's just talk about bet

313
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,400
for a second.
What was your what's your kind

314
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:46,320
of it's the first time we've
been.

315
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,640
What was your gut reaction or
feeling coming away from a day

316
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,400
at BET in London?
Well, firstly, it's huge.

317
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,040
I think the sheer scale of it
was what hit me straight away.

318
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,960
The amount of and the number of
Ed tech companies that are out

319
00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:02,320
there doing their own thing is
insane.

320
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,160
And I think we'll talk about it
later later about the how it's

321
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,720
slightly overwhelming sometimes.
But the day itself, I just

322
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,360
wanted to start off by saying a
huge thank you to learning by

323
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,160
questions because they basically
took us under their wing.

324
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:14,840
They invited us up to their
store.

325
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,280
We set up their posting loads on
social.

326
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,480
So go and find us on Instagram
at TCP podcast or on Tiktok with

327
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,600
the same handle.
But yeah, Heather, who works for

328
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,040
LBQ, basically said, come, come
here guys, you've got, you've

329
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,640
got a space.
Go off and do what you want.

330
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,520
We went and looked at all
different stands, but they

331
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,560
really looked after us that that
was really, really nice.

332
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,480
They were they were really
polite, really lovely and like

333
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,000
listening later again, stay stay
tuned to this episode because we

334
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,560
even spoke to the founder of
LBQ, which we've got a little

335
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:40,840
bit of a sound bite for you
later on.

336
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:41,800
Yeah, and that was awesome as
well.

337
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,880
I really enjoyed talking to you.
I did just love talking to the

338
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:44,880
whole team.
They were just so polite and

339
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,320
lovely to.
Us the whole time, they were so,

340
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:47,520
so nice.
And you know what?

341
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,440
It's that Northern spirit from a
lot of them.

342
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,040
I've got to say, I'm a
northerner.

343
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,360
I might not sound like a
northerner at heart, but I was a

344
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,680
northerner.
Well, I'm a northerner.

345
00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:56,760
I moved down South when I was
younger and I just, I just lived

346
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:57,840
at the north.
This just seemed so.

347
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,440
Friendly they were, and I tell
you what, you took advantage of

348
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,720
it because you drunk half a hot.
Chocolate, I think, well they

349
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,280
had a barista, so the whole
thing was have a brew with LBQ

350
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:08,960
and the idea was get a cup of
tea for free.

351
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,640
We'll have a chat, we'll see
what we can do because they were

352
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,040
demonstrating LBQ etcetera.
And I said, ah, we got there.

353
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,280
So I don't really drink tea or
coffee, like I'm more of a hot

354
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,000
chocolate person.
Just as a joke, as if like

355
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:19,560
clearly there's not one in the
coffee machine.

356
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:20,840
Oh, we can do hot chocolate.
Sorry.

357
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,080
What you can do hot chocolate?
Can I have 3?

358
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,360
Can I just have a conveyor belt?
Often like when you see and

359
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,440
every time we go back to the
stand, someone said, do you want

360
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,600
a hot chocolate?
I was like, yes, I do actually,

361
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,200
I think I'm a hot chocolate.
And when we were leaving, I

362
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:35,240
forgot about this.
Go on.

363
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,920
So it was nearly the end of the
day.

364
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,040
We went back to get our stuff.
And we were packing up.

365
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,080
And then another lovely person,
like, on the stand came up.

366
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,480
I said, can I get you anything?
Can I get you a drink?

367
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,000
And I wasn't going to get one.
And I said, oh, do you know

368
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,760
what?
I might get my 54th hot

369
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,240
chocolate of the day.
Can I have hot chocolate,

370
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:50,120
please?
Yeah, yeah.

371
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,000
Never know.
I'll go and get it.

372
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,720
I'll go and get it because I'm
just going to go get myself.

373
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,520
Obviously, I don't expect anyone
to wait on me.

374
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:55,560
And these things, they're all
busy.

375
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:56,880
And I said, oh, thank you so
much.

376
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,120
We finished packing.
We just walked off.

377
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,560
We just went back into packing
mode.

378
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,720
We'll make sure we had all our
equipment, we suppose coming,

379
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,200
loads of stuff.
So there's us walking on tripod

380
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,480
under our hand and we got to the
door and I was like, I've got a

381
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,760
hot chocolate about that.
No hot chocolate, it's just the

382
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,000
chocolate.
It's a gold chocolate.

383
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,880
I just.
I feel so bad for the idea that

384
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,440
she's walked over.
Yeah, just making.

385
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:20,760
Make an old T sheet.
Repeat.

386
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:21,760
Another hot chocolate.
He loves him.

387
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:22,600
He does.
He loves him, doesn't.

388
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:23,800
He comes back and we're just
gone.

389
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,480
We're just gone.
Not even there, honestly.

390
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,000
There was a connection.
I jump in with a highlight

391
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,400
because it is at your expense
and I loved it.

392
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,800
Go on.
So we had one of our one of our

393
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,440
good friends was there, Sophie
Bartlett.

394
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,920
She's been on been on this
podcast a couple of times in the

395
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,480
past and we've become really
quite good friends with her over

396
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,920
that time as well since then.
And she was there.

397
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,160
And you might remember Dylan
talking in a previous episode

398
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,520
about the the times table test
we did and how he was a champion

399
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,520
and how he went into a class and
he was like, yeah, on the match

400
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,520
lead done.
And he put his pencil down, you

401
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,760
know, beat all the kids and the.
That's quite how it went, but.

402
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,400
It was, you know, very arrogant
and and we were speaking to

403
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,640
Sophie about it and she said, I
reckon I could beat you.

404
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,920
And I thought, here we go
because I know how competitive

405
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,560
Dylan is.
And he was like he laughed at

406
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:03,920
her.
Of course.

407
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,360
No, you couldn't because, you
know, arrogant.

408
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,920
Again, I'm just painting this
picture of you and and she

409
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,120
turned up.
She was at bet guess what she

410
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,720
brought with her times table
test 100 tables.

411
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,840
Dylan, I think you should take
over the story at this point

412
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,160
actually and tell us.
Just tell us what happened.

413
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,480
One of the very rare occasions
where I don't want to talk over

414
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:23,920
you actually, because I don't
think we need to tell this

415
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,560
story.
But we had we had a race and she

416
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,360
turned into some I said it
turned to some AI robot.

417
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,840
We were at this event with loads
of mechanics and cool stuff that

418
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,320
you can get in your classroom to
help you.

419
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,400
And I just thought for a minute,
she is one of the exhibits here.

420
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,520
She's an AI robot who can just
write extremely quickly.

421
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,560
Her she it looked like, you
know, gliding over something

422
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,240
like imagination.
It just was something out of a

423
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:46,840
book.
Couldn't.

424
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,960
Possibly be just a person who is
better.

425
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,640
It had to be an AI robot.
That's, I think that's the crux

426
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,200
of.
This, it's the only explanation.

427
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,600
Anyone quicker than me is just
cheating.

428
00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,840
Anyone slower than me, it's just
really bad at times.

429
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,400
They rubbish.
You gotta be in their sweet

430
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,880
spot.
Yeah, so sorry, Sophie.

431
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,400
It is void now that we know
you're a robot.

432
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,359
I got his Dylan, but that may be
enough on that.

433
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:08,680
I suppose.
One big thing I wanted to

434
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,839
reflect on BET was if you are a
teacher thinking of going to

435
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:14,680
BET, we'll talk about what you
can get out of it etc.

436
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,200
Later on, maybe in a bit more
detail, but I would say the,

437
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,800
the, the really real positive
was the amount of people we met,

438
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,079
the, the people making waves in
education, the people we've

439
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:28,079
known through social media,
through the podcast.

440
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:29,960
We had a good chat with Mr P was
there.

441
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,520
We met him in real life for the
first time.

442
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,000
We met loads of different people
from, you know, BBC bite size

443
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,360
teacher tab.
We're huge white, White Rose

444
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:39,320
education advocates.
We went and saw the team there,

445
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,240
had a chat with them.
There were just so many people

446
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,760
there who you know of, but you
can actually then get there and

447
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,800
have a conversation with them
and have a chat and realise how

448
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,760
passionate they are.
And I think that's where it was

449
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,360
really, really good, was those
real deep conversations you

450
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:58,560
could have with people who you
kind of have built a

451
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,760
relationship with in the past
maybe, or chatted to or

452
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,280
messaged.
But there's something about

453
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,320
meeting them in real life and
just seeing what their expertise

454
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,240
are and just having a chat.
It can feel a tiny bit

455
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,440
superficial online sometimes.
Sometimes it's like, is this

456
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,480
just an exchange, like what's
happening here?

457
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,760
But yeah, when it's in person,
it is just different, isn't I

458
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,240
think I said that to a few
people, Like it feels different

459
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:19,400
now that you're actually in
front of me.

460
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,320
Even though we speak online all
the time.

461
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:22,840
There was one thing as well.
I want to work with bet.

462
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,520
And I don't know if you've got
this vibe, but when we're

463
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,400
walking around, sometimes we get
stopped, didn't we?

464
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,840
Like, obviously they're all
there.

465
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:30,920
All these exhibitors are there
and.

466
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,400
They've Are you the guys from
Teach the Repeat?

467
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:34,720
Are you the guys from the
podcast?

468
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,800
We were, we were secretly hoping
it, but sometimes, you know, if

469
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,200
you if you lock, if you make eye
contact with one of the people

470
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,800
that on the stand, whose sole
job there it's that day is to

471
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,400
like, is to sell, you know, you
lock eyes for a second and that

472
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,800
bam, that there in your face and
like, oh, you know, who are you?

473
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,880
Who are you?
And what I found really quite

474
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,880
bizarre was how many times that
once we revealed we were just

475
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,120
teachers, this whole event for
teachers, you know, think about

476
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:00,480
that's why the way I thought
about it, once you reveal you're

477
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,160
just teachers, they were kind of
not interested in talking to you

478
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:05,120
because they're like, oh, you
can't spend any money on it.

479
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,600
OK.
Oh, we're just just teachers.

480
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,200
This this teaching event is not
for you, mate.

481
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,280
And I was just sort of like, all
right.

482
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,080
I know what you mean.
You, I know exactly what you

483
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,920
mean because it's if you're a
teacher thinking of going to

484
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,200
bed, I wouldn't say don't ever
go.

485
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,720
I'd say, look, if you, the
problem is it's on a Thursday,

486
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,360
yeah, everyone's teaching.
You know, we're, we're lucky in

487
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,080
that we, we teach Monday,
Tuesday, Wednesday.

488
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,880
We had that free time.
We went up there anyway.

489
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,720
Is it worth booking time off as
a teacher to go up there unless

490
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,480
your school are giving you
permission with X amount of

491
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,360
budget to try stuff out and
maybe get something like you

492
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,600
said, probably not.
We we had a conversation with

493
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,200
someone.
They just stopped us.

494
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,520
It was a whole school system for
I think it was for inputting

495
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,000
data or something.
I can't remember what it was,

496
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,120
but just.
A management system or.

497
00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:48,120
Something yeah, management
system and again they were

498
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:51,360
chatting really nice obviously
blah blah blah so what's your

499
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:53,320
role and we're like oh we're
classroom teachers and it really

500
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,680
did kind of flip like oh OK all
right have a good time like kind

501
00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:01,000
of thing and you do realise that
you know at the end of the day,

502
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,560
I think that.
The line I can't that kind of

503
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,080
stuck with me.
And I guess it's unfortunate

504
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,600
really is money talks.
Yeah.

505
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,560
And and I I feel like that's
amazing because it's a good

506
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,160
opportunity to see all these
unbelievable tech that's going

507
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,200
on and all these amazing people.
But at the end of the day,

508
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,840
there's a reason it's free for
educators.

509
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,440
There's a reason that there's
certain people talking at

510
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,480
events.
It's not just because it's what

511
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,080
teachers want to hear.
It's because there are big

512
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,640
companies ploughing lots of
money into the event to make it

513
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,520
happen, which is great.
But then an outcome of that is

514
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:39,800
it's one big sales pitch and
although it's useful, it was not

515
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,600
disappointing.
I think that's the wrong word,

516
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:46,120
but it it made sense that it
felt like people were obviously

517
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,720
just trying to get stuff into
the classroom because they need

518
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,680
sales and and there are lots of
people doing it for the right

519
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,760
reasons, but it's a sales
picture at the end of.

520
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,440
The day, yeah.
I think one of the reasons we

521
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,480
went there was to totally just
mingle with some teachers, just

522
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,320
talk to some teachers and be
like, oh, you know, what have

523
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:00,760
you found?
Have you found anything good?

524
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,200
Like you found anything that you
want to take back to the

525
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:03,720
classroom?
And it just sort of didn't

526
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:04,560
happen in the end, did it?
Really?

527
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,080
We didn't really.
I'm sure there was some teachers

528
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,520
there, but from a visual
perspective like it didn't, it

529
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,240
didn't feel like it will seem
like it.

530
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,320
I couldn't really find any.
It felt like a lot of admin, a

531
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,080
lot of, you know, business
leaders, a lot of, you know,

532
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,440
influencers for want of a better
word, people have been invited

533
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,520
up to chat or something.
Again, great.

534
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,120
But I think they're missing a
trick slightly and maybe that's

535
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:26,880
why they're putting more
emphasis on the table talks and

536
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,760
things like that where teachers
book a place and chat and you

537
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,080
can go there and speak to
people.

538
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,760
But I just think it could be
maybe put a bit more of a

539
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,760
pedestal for the people on the
coalface actually doing the

540
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,200
teaching.
Yeah, I definitely go there with

541
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:40,760
a purpose is what I think what
we're saying here.

542
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,000
If you're a teacher thinking of
going, you're probably not going

543
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,920
to get as much out of it as
you'd maybe think that they

544
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,440
could be offering As for just
for just ordinary classroom

545
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,880
teachers in terms of like CPD
and like trying out stuff.

546
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,320
But if you go in there with
purpose, your head teacher says,

547
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,760
come on, we want our English is
just, you know, we want to

548
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,720
revitalise English.
Can you just go on a bit of a

549
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,120
Recon mission and find out
what's out there for teaching

550
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:00,760
and learning goes to the teacher
and learning section.

551
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,760
That could be a good, good
reason to go.

552
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,800
I want to, I want to just flick
back to before we go into the

553
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,920
main bug for this episode in a
second, just talk about the idea

554
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,960
of the overwhelm because like
you said, we we went into bat

555
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,240
and there is this or at first
like the sheer size when you've

556
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,880
been to the London Excel arena,
you know, it's huge, but it is

557
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,840
this massive space with so much
tech kind of rammed in.

558
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,840
I, I couldn't, I couldn't get
over that feeling of overwhelm.

559
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,760
Do you know that that abundance
of choice and it really made me

560
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,320
think and we're going to have a
chat in a second about the

561
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,600
reality of teaching and what you
can actually do.

562
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,840
Yeah.
Because there seemed to be from

563
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,680
BET.
And this is what's inspired our

564
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,720
chat today.
I suppose in a second is there

565
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,040
was a lot of idealism.
There was a lot of wow, this is

566
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,600
amazing.
Look at this robot literally

567
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,640
walked down the aisle going.
To get married.

568
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,640
You didn't really good.
You didn't really good

569
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,400
impression.
Really good impression of that

570
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,440
robot.
I'm now married.

571
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,680
I did.
I think you filmed it.

572
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,040
It's now Hayden Robot.
The robot's second name is

573
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,800
Robot.
It's on our socials.

574
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,120
But yeah, you see that?
You see all this amazing tech?

575
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,800
We left Sophie there.
With my robot mates.

576
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,800
We actually interrupt.
She's AI bot, Sophie is it's

577
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,120
called the math stand.
It's like math AI bot or

578
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,000
something.
This new model Sophie Bartlett.

579
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,040
But the point being, we walked
around all that hardware section

580
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,360
especially, and there was there
was whole big things set up like

581
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:30,160
green screens for like a news
report and kind of yeah, like,

582
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,600
and you look at it and you think
this is unreal.

583
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,360
What amazing opportunities for
the children.

584
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,440
I can't do it though.
What am I going to do, spend 30

585
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,120
grand on a studio for my
primary?

586
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,720
Right around in your pockets.
Find your £2.50 budget that

587
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,760
you've got from your school was
like, is that enough to get this

588
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,880
camera?
But even down to like, you know,

589
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,480
like when we're doing Scratch
and we do a very basic version

590
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,040
of school of just writing
Scratch, there's loads of

591
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,520
models, you can buy them.
Kids can build stuff and then

592
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,640
write code in Scratch.
There seem to be such a

593
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,840
disconnect at times between what
actually goes on in the primary

594
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,720
school and can physically
happen.

595
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:08,040
The reality and this kind of
ideal, that bet is kind of

596
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:11,480
showing off and selling.
There's just such a huge cabinet

597
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,080
and I feel like that cabins
getting bigger and bigger and

598
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,120
bigger the further along we go
into this absolute rot of

599
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:17,760
education and the amount of
funding we're.

600
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,720
Getting, would you say there
were there are many gimmicks

601
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,200
there like things where they
really maybe there's a tiny

602
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,480
application of them, but really
see they're probably not going

603
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,600
to be there next.
Year, I think in terms of a

604
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,320
school yes so but it you know
there are other businesses going

605
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,080
there that's the thing it's not
just about schools.

606
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,560
You might have private tutors
going you might have business

607
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,040
leaders who do something or you
know special.

608
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:43,200
The one I can think of straight
away there was a lot of AI.

609
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,920
That's something that really
struck me there was so many

610
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,840
stores that had AI in the name
because that's the current

611
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,080
flavour of the month A couple of
years ago they were saying it

612
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,400
was all virtual reality headset
that's kind of phased out.

613
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,680
I feel like AI is here to stay,
but there was an AI for

614
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:57,880
everything you can possibly
think of.

615
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:02,360
SO1 store, for example, was AI
for music and it was, it was

616
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,840
like with a camera and it would
give feedback immediately on

617
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,320
like the posture.
Let's say you're playing the

618
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,320
violin, right, Right on your
posture.

619
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,520
It would give you feedback, say
sit up straighter, hold the bow

620
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,600
higher and just help you if
you're playing a violin.

621
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,920
That's incredibly niche and I
can imagine really expensive.

622
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,520
From a school's point of view,
never really going to be a

623
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,720
realistic option, but from the
point of view of maybe a music

624
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,520
school and they just want to
sell two or three, then that's

625
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:27,360
fantastic.
Yeah, I see.

626
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,920
So, So my point here is I think
there are a lot, it depends on

627
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,360
who your market is.
When your market are schools

628
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:36,960
with tight budgets, there's
going to be a lot of education

629
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,840
companies there that won't cut
the mustard.

630
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,640
Because when you think about how
many Ed tech companies actually

631
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,040
make it into primary schools,
it's a handful you can name.

632
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,520
And we went there.
We were Sophie Bartlett with Lee

633
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,880
and we could name probably 5% of
the companies that were there.

634
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,400
The rest were new to us and we
didn't.

635
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,520
We haven't heard of them before.
Yeah, yeah, I think there's,

636
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,680
there's a lot of, there's a lot
of wow factor, there's a lot of

637
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,760
wowing going on.
I remember we spoke to one of

638
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,760
the AI companies and in a
nutshell, I don't want to do

639
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,640
them injustice and I can't even
remember their name, but they,

640
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:12,120
they offered essentially you,
you scanned in the documentation

641
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,520
that you wanted to teach from,
right?

642
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,160
Let's say it was a textbook and
the AI programme read that

643
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,360
information and then turned it
into like an interactive

644
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,920
PowerPoint or like a video or
something like that to like

645
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,120
enrich the learning.
And when he was like talking

646
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:25,720
about it, I was like, that's a
really cool thing.

647
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,160
But then it but then you just.
But then that reality hits back

648
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,040
in, doesn't it?
Of like, yeah, but I'm not going

649
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,320
to do that because you know
what?

650
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,200
One I haven't got the time to do
to do this like bespoke thing

651
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,480
every, every single time I
teach.

652
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,960
Is that what you're saying?
I do this all the time.

653
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,400
Like is this the new way I teach
to the school sports scheme for

654
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,000
nought .1% the price of that and
actually the planning provider

655
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,440
on that we did last year.
I haven't got time to do this.

656
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,000
I don't know, maybe I'm being
naive, maybe I'm being

657
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,160
pessimistic, but I can.
I just walked away from that

658
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,920
stand thinking that was a cool
idea, but I'm not sure there's a

659
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,880
reality where schools have got
the time to use that tech, which

660
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,400
is cool.
Absolutely, and I think with AI

661
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,880
in particular, I can think of
loads of reasons how it's really

662
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,080
going to help workload
well-being.

663
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,160
For example, we were there with
Leave Mr P, his team Teach Me AI

664
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,760
won an award that was
specifically about reducing

665
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,240
workload because that is
harnessing the power of AI and

666
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,280
and generative text to lower
workload for teachers in a very

667
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,520
specific way.
That's clearly hitting the mark.

668
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,360
And that's something you can see
a lot of teachers using for that

669
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:23,640
reason.
The other the other companies

670
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,920
where it's kind of like an idea
or this really cool thing that

671
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,200
is awesome but isn't as
practical, they're the ones I

672
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,560
think are going to fade away,
unfortunately.

673
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,840
It's when they're trying to
solve a problem that they think

674
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,960
is a problem, but maybe isn't
actually as big a problem as

675
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,240
they think.
They've kind of made an

676
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,560
imaginary world of like, yeah,
this, this is a problem, isn't

677
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:40,760
it?
Because, and we've we've

678
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,600
invented this solution to it.
And actually most people

679
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,920
probably thinking, I mean, it's
not really that much of a

680
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,960
problem.
So I don't really need this,

681
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,960
even though it's a cool idea.
I don't know, it was weird.

682
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,640
It was, there was a strange,
strange feel around the place.

683
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:52,960
Wasn't.
There and I think that being at

684
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,800
the LBQ store was really
refreshing almost because they

685
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,920
have a very clear, you know,
what they want to achieve.

686
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,000
We're going to talk with Tony
later.

687
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,440
You'll hear the interview all
about it.

688
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,720
But they can show it.
They can demonstrate it.

689
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,000
There's no AI involved.
You know, it's not like it then

690
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:14,600
it isn't just this next wave of
let's use AI for the sake of it.

691
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,680
It might in the future embrace
AI for whatever reason.

692
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,280
But it was nice just to see no,
no, we're doing this for this

693
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,000
reason.
Have a go, have a brew, have a

694
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,440
chat.
And it was, it just showed that

695
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,000
around bet there was a lot of
different vibes.

696
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,520
I'd say for sure.
OK, let's move on then.

697
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,920
Let's talk about inspired by
this.

698
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,440
We'll play the Jingle, then
we'll come back and we'll talk

699
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,800
about the reality of teaching
and the dream fiction version of

700
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,560
what everyone thinks we're going
to do linked to what we just

701
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,080
said about fiction and reality.
I think it's a wider problem in

702
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,840
education.
So I really wanted to have this

703
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,440
chat in this podcast kind of
inspired by being a bet because

704
00:28:54,800 --> 00:29:00,800
there is this almost imaginative
version of what teaching is.

705
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,760
OK.
When you even even within the

706
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,000
profession as a teacher, there's
so much stuff that we kind of

707
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,200
turn a blind eye to.
And when people like you and I

708
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,320
in this podcast say, well, no,
no, actually, let's not pretend

709
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,440
that the Sen system is fine
because it's completely broken.

710
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,840
There are 10 children in my
class who need my attention at

711
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,080
all times and I can't physically
give them what they need.

712
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,680
And that also means the other 22
children in my class aren't

713
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,560
getting me either.
It's OK for me to say that it's

714
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,960
broken.
Let's embrace reality.

715
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,360
I guess this was another strand
of that when we were at there

716
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,960
and it was just saying, this is
awesome, but it's not realistic.

717
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,480
So we've put together some
points we think where we just

718
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,720
want to just embrace the reality
for a second.

719
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,640
And if you're listening to this
and you're thinking, Oh my gosh,

720
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,720
yes, this happened in my school
as well.

721
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,400
I just want us to be hopefully
the starting point to have these

722
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,240
conversations because as soon as
we all accept that this is the

723
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,800
reality, maybe then we can move
and do things about it instead

724
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,840
of just nodding along.
Oh, I'm going to pretend that

725
00:29:58,840 --> 00:29:59,880
everything's fine.
I'm my glass.

726
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,880
I'm absolutely, I don't need any
support from TA.

727
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,360
No.
So think about reality.

728
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,320
What's the first thing that came
to your mind?

729
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,760
Again, Lincoln is straight to
bet.

730
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,800
We saw, you said we saw tonnes
of robotics, right?

731
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,840
We saw tonnes of stuff that's
probably really good for IT,

732
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,080
right?
But the reality is in schools,

733
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,040
IT is so far down on the list
when you compare it to English

734
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,400
and maths that trump everything.
It's like, yeah, or we could

735
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,120
spend loads of money on the on
these bots that go around, but

736
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,000
we're going to take the kids out
of all of those lessons because

737
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,920
we're going to constantly do
maths and English interventions.

738
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,520
Because the reality is we don't
actually value subjects like we

739
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,280
say we do.
We all all the schools pretend

740
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,760
it, you know, when off they come
in, oh, when off they go to a

741
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,800
school, every school in this
land, as Dylan used to say,

742
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,840
would would say, oh, yes, all of
our subjects are just as

743
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,520
important as each other.
Our core subjects here, all we

744
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,320
value them.
We love our foundations of it.

745
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,280
Look how much we do for them.
We've bought these bots.

746
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,080
Are the kids using them?
No, no, they're not.

747
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,000
I mean, sorry, Mr Ofsted person.
Yes, they are.

748
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,880
They use them all the time for
this enriched curriculum that we

749
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:00,720
have.
No, they don't.

750
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,360
They don't.
The reality is most schools in

751
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,760
this country are abusing the
foundation subjects and taking

752
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,720
kids out because they're
desperate to pass the Sats.

753
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,120
They want to get the kids
through maths and English

754
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,480
because they're the subjects
that the government really

755
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,640
values, that our country values
through leaderboards, etcetera.

756
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,200
So what do you think?
About that you'll you'll never

757
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,200
see an intervention for PE if if
a child you know and I I joked

758
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,160
about this we were talking with
people at bet about this whole

759
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,960
thing of valuing stuff the right
way and we just simply don't as

760
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,000
an education system value things
at the same level as English and

761
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,560
maths.
Physical education PE to me

762
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,320
should be absolutely up there.
Just as important as being able

763
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,880
to read and write, just as
important as being able to read

764
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,320
time and add up numbers and use
money is being physically active

765
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,800
and fit 100% should be up there
and it just isn't.

766
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,320
I literally in my career have
been told by my bosses because

767
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,520
they want to get the numbers up,
which I do, you know what I get

768
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,960
when there's so much pressure
because it needs to come from

769
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:02,720
the top down.
This.

770
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,080
I really do think that to take
children out of lessons, to give

771
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,440
boosters for maths, for English,
whether it might be, and I find

772
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,640
myself, I've said this before,
taking children out of PE.

773
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,120
Yeah, they get 2 PE lessons a
week, they get 5 English lessons

774
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,560
a week, they get 5 math sessions
a week and I'm taking them out

775
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,360
to do more of that maths.
And I just think it's completely

776
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,160
broken and I sit there and do it
because it's my job.

777
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,840
I think this and yet it still
happens and this is such a huge

778
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,640
problem.
I need to grow a bit of a

779
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,200
backbone, I think.
I think I've got quite a

780
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,080
backbone to be honest.
And I say a lot of what I think,

781
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,160
but I still think it needs to go
further.

782
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,600
I think that if I'm asked to
take a child out of PEI should

783
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,920
turn around and say no.
And I think, I think maybe I'll

784
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,960
do that from this honestly, I
think maybe I'll say I

785
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,640
completely agree with this.
Look, I'm happy to do groups if

786
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,480
you want to use my director time
in that way.

787
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,680
But I'm not going to take
children out of this subject for

788
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,800
this reason.
And even in doing that, I'm then

789
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,560
saying, well, it's OK to take
them out of PSHE.

790
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,000
As I say another.
Subject.

791
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,360
I was going to have a subject,
but I just think it's awful.

792
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,440
And I think until that mindset
changes, this is the reality of

793
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,320
teaching.
No matter what anyone says and

794
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,840
we always say, oh, let's just
pretend all the subjects are

795
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,800
equal.
I think we should think that,

796
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,520
but we don't.
The way we treat them is mad.

797
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,400
The reality doesn't match what
we say, does it?

798
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,120
As a profession, No, another
one, one that I struggle with, I

799
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,200
guess is this ideology that as
teachers and I don't again, I

800
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,920
don't disagree with this
ideology, right, which is that

801
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,480
we should be always striving to
be better, right?

802
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,840
We should be, we should be
embracing new things getting

803
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,400
better.
When VR headsets came around,

804
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,160
I'm sure lots of schools
probably did embrace it and it

805
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,160
maybe it could have been a good
thing.

806
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,560
It probably it probably died out
a bit.

807
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,600
I haven't don't see it as much
these days, but whatever with

808
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,240
AI, do you know what, maybe we
should embrace it.

809
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,160
It could be a good tool, but the
reality is right that it's not

810
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,360
just one thing at a time.
It isn't just AI.

811
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:56,760
Is it though?
Because, you know, what's really

812
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,120
happening all the time is all,
all the subjects at once.

813
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,760
There's something new happening
and it's so overwhelming.

814
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,280
I can't keep up with it.
I said it to someone when I was

815
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,080
at BET.
I was saying I love all these

816
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,719
new things.
I was like, but I have what's

817
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:10,600
that?
What's that thing where it's

818
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,760
like you're so overload you
don't do any of them?

819
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:14,440
Yeah.
Option paralysis.

820
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,320
Option paralysis.
I feel like that as a teacher

821
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,440
all the time.
The reality is, yeah, I these

822
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:20,800
ideas are great, but you know
what?

823
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,960
I'm not going to do any of them
and much justice because

824
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,040
actually I've got to do this in
English.

825
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,080
I've got to change that in
maths.

826
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,360
I've got a plan this weekend
anyway.

827
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,679
I don't even have much time to
think science is changing.

828
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:30,159
We're all pretending after the
coming next month.

829
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:31,920
So we're all pretending that art
is now important.

830
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,480
Like like we just do it all
these things.

831
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,360
And then it's like, and then the
IT league comes in and says, oh,

832
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:38,440
we bought these.
We've been Tibetan.

833
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,520
We bought these bots that go
around when we use scratch, we

834
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,000
can programme them.
And I'm like, cool, do you know

835
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,400
what?
I just I haven't got the brain

836
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,480
power to learn this new thing.
I just don't.

837
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:48,960
I don't.
I can't do it.

838
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,400
That is the reality of primary
school teaching is that we all,

839
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:55,400
I cannot physically be experts
in everything.

840
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,040
And and then that's paired up
with the fiction of the job,

841
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,720
which is, oh, you're a primary
school teacher.

842
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:01,880
Yeah, I teach everything.
Oh, yeah.

843
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,440
I teach history.
And then after that, I'm going

844
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,960
to do a bit of a coding how a
robot moves.

845
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,600
And after I'm going to look at
the civilization changes from

846
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,600
the Roman Empire up through to
the Celts or the the Vikings are

847
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,320
coming and how civilization
changes.

848
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,400
And, and tomorrow I'm going to
be an expert on how rivers are

849
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,560
formed.
What like it.

850
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,560
We're basically saying in the
same breath that these

851
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,760
specialists exist because we're
learning from these amazing

852
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,960
people while they come in and
this is geography specialist.

853
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:28,200
We're all admitting that these
specialists exist, but then

854
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,600
we're also pretending that we
can all be specialists in every

855
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,560
single thing.
By definition, then there's no

856
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,120
such thing as a specialist.
It's OK to accept that as staff,

857
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,360
as teachers, we are not going to
be an expert in everything.

858
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,480
We don't need to pretend that we
know everything.

859
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,120
And, and I think when the top
down have this expectation,

860
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,440
that's just the bar is so high
in everything.

861
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,440
Oh, and we've always got to
improve.

862
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,680
It's just the way we do things.
No, we don't.

863
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,840
No, we don't.
You know what happens?

864
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,160
Staff either secretly don't do
those things until it gets to

865
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,760
breaking point.
Someone gets in trouble or they

866
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:01,920
burn themselves out trying to do
it.

867
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,640
And yeah, I don't know, I, I
feel overwhelmed quite a lot I

868
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,520
have done in the past.
I think the school we work at

869
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,320
is, is fairly good at reducing
that by know there are lots of

870
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,040
schools where rather than just
embracing one new idea and

871
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,440
allowing your staff some time to
become a bit more expert in that

872
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,160
thing.
I keep going back to these bots

873
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,920
ideas because it's an easy
tangible one to do.

874
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,040
But if your school's gone to bed
and they come back and they

875
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,480
bought these bots, we're
changing the computing

876
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,720
curriculum.
Do you know what Don't change

877
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,400
anything else then for a bit.
Just let them work on that one

878
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,080
thing.
But the reality is in most

879
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,560
schools that doesn't happen.
You don't get that one change at

880
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,840
a time because we've got to be
expert in all of the subjects at

881
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,560
once.
So yeah, the reality is is very

882
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,520
different to the lovely
ideology, which is great.

883
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,320
We should all be experts to a
certain level in these changing

884
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,320
initiatives across all the
subjects all the time.

885
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:44,640
But I can't do it.
It's overwhelming.

886
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,960
That's where just just to kind
of summarise that point, that's

887
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,480
where people find it easy to
kind of pick holes in what we're

888
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,280
saying because they'll say,
well, what do you mean?

889
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,880
Of course we have to always get
better.

890
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,200
Yeah.
Are you saying that we shouldn't

891
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,680
always improve for our kids?
No, I'm saying is sometimes

892
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,840
stuff's good enough and we can
improve less at once to make it

893
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,680
better.
Yeah, Yeah, Let's not pretend we

894
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,120
can make everything better all
of the time, because in doing

895
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,320
that, our staff get burnt out
and stuff's worse.

896
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,960
Yeah.
OK, so the next one, and this is

897
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,920
huge and there's no quick fix
here.

898
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,800
It's to do with money.
OK, so you look at this amazing

899
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,120
stuff.
Let's just say you did want to

900
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,040
invest in some really cool
hardware you've seen for your

901
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,080
computer science and oh, isn't
that amazing?

902
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,280
And oh gosh, that's a few 1000
lbs.

903
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,280
Oh, that's a huge investment.
OK, well we're going to have to

904
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,120
make sure we do this properly.
So we're going to get spend

905
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,760
thousands of pounds and then
we've not got any money for

906
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,760
anything else.
You go back to your school and

907
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,960
because of course, the reality
is that maths and English are

908
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,480
#1A school will look at it and
go, I just can't justify that

909
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:40,880
amount of money on just computer
science.

910
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:42,480
That's half an hour a week for
the children.

911
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,040
I mean, that's just, it's just
not tangible.

912
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,880
A huge, huge reality in our
schools right now is that we

913
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:53,040
physically cannot buy anything
new that's of any use because

914
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,800
our whole budget is taken up by
the essentials.

915
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,280
The cost of textbooks has
doubled, paper has doubled.

916
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:02,120
Getting getting equipment for
children just to use in the

917
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,160
class just to write things down
in the 1st place eats up way

918
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,920
more, much more of a percentage
of our budget than ever before.

919
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,400
Heating the school in this in
the winter costs way more than

920
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,040
ever before.
These cost rises have completely

921
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,120
outstripped the increase in the
budget.

922
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,320
Therefore the percentage is left
to actually buy stuff is lower

923
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,440
than ever in schools, so you can
see as much cool stuff as you

924
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,880
want.
The reality is, we simply can't

925
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,240
afford.
Yeah, well, when we're at BET we

926
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:29,320
spoke to someone really
interesting.

927
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,840
We spoke to a woman called Deb
Lyons and she works for the

928
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,360
local authority in Bolton.
I hope I've got that correct.

929
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,880
So you know, Brian, if I've done
that wrong, but that that's she

930
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,720
works for the local authority
and we had a really, really good

931
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:41,120
chat with her and we actually
recorded some of it.

932
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,680
And we're going to play a little
bit a snippet to you in a

933
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,360
moment.
But we are we spoke to her and

934
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,240
asked her how she manages her
budget.

935
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:50,160
So her her job and this just
seems like a Unicorn job,

936
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,600
doesn't it, Because I haven't
heard of this before.

937
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,560
I spoke to her because clearly
it's been stripped from our

938
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,120
area.
Her job is literally with the

939
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,080
local authority to go around
schools and develop computer

940
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,560
science, wasn't it with
different schools.

941
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,800
She's she speaks with teachers,
she works with pupils like she

942
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,600
is that kind of that, that
figure up here who just helps

943
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,480
everyone in her in her area
develop that subject, which I

944
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,320
was like, oh, this is cool.
Can we have more of these

945
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,800
people, please?
And so we asked her, OK, that's

946
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,760
a big responsibility.
How do you manage the budget?

947
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,760
Because you're the reality is
what Dylan just said, we don't

948
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,680
actually have the money.
She doesn't just now get a magic

949
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,160
money tree to go with that job
to be like, oh, because I'm the

950
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,240
computer science local authority
person, I can obviously just

951
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:30,520
deliver all this, this great
stuff to you for nothing.

952
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,640
It costs money still.
So, you know, we just said to

953
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,080
her, how do you manage that?
How do you get past the barrier

954
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,440
of you don't have actually have
much money, but you've still got

955
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,760
to be successful in your job of,
of enriching computer science.

956
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,960
What do you do?
Let's listen.

957
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,120
I think one of the, the sort of
things I always used to do when

958
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,520
I was in school, and I mean,
we're still going to schools now

959
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,680
and, and, and that sort of
aspect of it, but I always go

960
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:59,640
with use fewer resources better.
I can't be personally, I can't

961
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,600
be doing lots of things all over
the place.

962
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,880
I'm a one stop shop sometimes
that works really well for this

963
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,560
aspect.
This works really well for this

964
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,560
aspect and actually really use
it to it's fullest, especially

965
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,440
we've paid for it.
You want to get your money's

966
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,080
worth out of it as well.
So there are certain products

967
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,200
that we use and we advocate to
schools.

968
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,880
This is what?
We recommend and they've got the

969
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,400
options to whether they do or
whether they don't use it and

970
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,920
things.
So that's that's sort of it

971
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,040
works.
Do you find in the current

972
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,160
climate that budgets are having
a big impact on what you can do?

973
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,640
Yeah, we've come today and sort
of gone.

974
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,520
What's actually out there?
What do we need?

975
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,040
What would we like to put on our
wish list?

976
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,520
And I think that's where is at 1
stage you come to that, you go

977
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,960
think, think, think, think and
you can't.

978
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,720
So we do something like a, we
have like project loan boxes

979
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,040
because schools can't actually
afford the resources.

980
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,960
So they, they hire it off us as
part of our service and but it

981
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,720
then comes with a whole load of
robots with plans and resources.

982
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,520
So then they couldn't, you know,
we started, we have started

983
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,280
doing videos, but that's a whole
different story.

984
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:13,360
But it, it means that when they
get the box, they can do all of

985
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,480
the fun stuff of, of that.
But this is support there as

986
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,640
well.
And and then again, there's

987
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,440
never a daft question.
So we're on Deb's.

988
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,080
I'm just doing this and it just
doesn't quite work.

989
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,080
Ah, you need, that's fine.
And our schools know that.

990
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:25,920
So.
Yeah.

991
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,040
So what I really liked and
latched onto what about what Deb

992
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,480
said is a solution that I hadn't
really thought of, which is that

993
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,520
idea of loan boxes.
Like she as the local authority

994
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,360
person who has that kind of head
across all of the local schools.

995
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,720
Well, rather than buying the
resources for all of those

996
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:42,280
schools because she thinks it's
good and they all get it

997
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,960
individually, they can just buy
one set and they can loan it to

998
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,360
the schools.
And because she has that head in

999
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,520
all of those schools, she can
kind of organise as well.

1000
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,520
Like, well, if you have it now,
actually next term, okay, this

1001
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,640
school, you're happy to do it
this term, can you organise your

1002
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,040
curriculum?
So you got it this term.

1003
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,160
Great.
Then we're gonna go this term,

1004
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,520
you're gonna have this.
It cuts the cost massively, but

1005
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,600
the schools still get to use the
full resource, if you know what

1006
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:02,400
I mean.
Exactly.

1007
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,440
In a way where they would have
bought it all for 10 times the

1008
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,680
cost, but then used it just as
much.

1009
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,760
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
They might have used it at the

1010
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,560
same time.
Actually, for the sake of just

1011
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,760
reorganising your curriculum a
little bit, don't use all the

1012
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,800
same time.
Use one set and just share it

1013
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,480
across you and just use it in
different terms or weeks or

1014
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,320
whatever.
I think what it highlighted to

1015
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,280
me as well was something I've
been reading a lot about

1016
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,200
recently because I've been
talking about multi Academy

1017
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,760
trusts and how I just think the
system is kind of unnecessary

1018
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,080
and you see some people taking
advantage of it and bloating up

1019
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,000
the executive level and taking
money out of schools.

1020
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,200
There's this whole thing
recently about the Brighton

1021
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,120
Academy Trust schools and where
they were skimming off 20% of

1022
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,160
the school budget to pay for
that exec level of people

1023
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:42,680
outside of the classroom running
the show.

1024
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,840
And a lot of the pushback from
that was people saying, well,

1025
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,360
this is just the same as the
local authority.

1026
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,960
The local authority have that
level above like what Deb works

1027
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,920
for, and they work with all the
schools and they implement these

1028
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,160
things across those of schools.
So when you're explaining what

1029
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,240
Deb does, I can imagine someone
thinking, well, yeah, that's

1030
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,440
what can happen in a trust.
A trust can be economy of scale.

1031
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,280
You can have people who are
working across the whole amount.

1032
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,960
There's one job and that person
like is doing something to do

1033
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,000
with computer science, and they
can go and help all the schools

1034
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,600
out.
But the reality is we live in a

1035
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,520
system where these dual things
exist.

1036
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:18,400
So you can be in one area where
the local authorities still have

1037
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:20,480
kind of power over X amount of
schools.

1038
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:21,880
Yeah.
But in that same area where the

1039
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,200
local authority used to have 100
schools and now have 50 because

1040
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,160
the other 50 are now parts of
four different trusts.

1041
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what it's doing is this

1042
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,000
system is simply diluting out.
It's splitting the budget.

1043
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,200
So debts get half the budget now
and some of the trusts get some

1044
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,600
of the budget.
There are two people doing the

1045
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,080
same job because the one
person's doing it for the local

1046
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,280
authority, one person do it for
this trust, maybe even 3 or 4 if

1047
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:45,840
there are three or four trusts
in the area.

1048
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:47,920
And it just makes it less
efficient.

1049
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,600
And one of the findings I
recently read, it was 10 years

1050
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,600
on from Gove, basically back
when he made all these changes

1051
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,080
in education back in 2014, the
new new curriculum and they were

1052
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,080
looking at the impact of trusts
basically.

1053
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,120
And a couple of the findings
really stood out.

1054
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,680
One was that Academy trust,
there's no evidence that they

1055
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,080
actively have a positive effect
on outcomes.

1056
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,360
So it's not as if you go to a
trust and all of a sudden

1057
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,520
everything's great.
So it's not just this like, oh,

1058
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,240
shouldn't all schools do it
because outcomes are better?

1059
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:15,640
Yeah, no, because that'll be
easy.

1060
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,000
Because then you could just
backwards justify it.

1061
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,040
Exactly.
The outcomes are better.

1062
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,840
Easy.
Yeah, but that's not the case.

1063
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,600
And the other thing that
basically one of the suggestions

1064
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,280
from the report was that one of
the biggest problems right now

1065
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,920
is this split version where you
can go to, let's say we're in

1066
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,680
Kent, for example, there'll be
Kent local authority who can now

1067
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,880
have less of a budget because
there'll be Academy trusts who

1068
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,720
are taking some of that budget
to run their schools.

1069
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,120
And they said this split idea is
not working.

1070
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,960
It's just not working because
it's just what we, what used to

1071
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,960
be in a local authority.
Oh, that's not very effective.

1072
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,120
That SCN provision that works
across this local authority,

1073
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,160
that's not working very well.
We need to have trust instead

1074
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,480
just running their own thing.
In fact, we're less efficient

1075
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,000
than ever now because then the
trust needs their own Sen

1076
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,960
leader.
So the outcome was basically,

1077
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,760
funnily enough, one of the
things they suggested was if

1078
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,960
we're going to go all in with
this trust, we have to make it

1079
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,440
so every school's in a trust so
that we can almost go back to

1080
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,400
the local authority scheme where
there was one central budget and

1081
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,560
there was more efficient.
At the minute we're just in this

1082
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,560
limbo zone where it's not
efficient at all and all that's

1083
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,840
happened is yes, efficiency has
gone down, but also we've almost

1084
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,080
privatised education and we can
see examples of where it's

1085
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,760
completely taken advantage of.
There's more opportunities for

1086
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,680
corruption, like you said, with
that school that you looked at

1087
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:30,960
and I can't remember what you
said.

1088
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,080
Brighton, Brighton, you know,
clearly there's a little bit,

1089
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,080
even if it's not blatant
corruption, there's clearly a

1090
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,280
bit of subliminal corruption
going on there in terms of if

1091
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,920
they're creaming off more profit
than they should be.

1092
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,240
It just wouldn't.
I mean, maybe it would correct

1093
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:42,760
me if I'm wrong, but I don't
think that would happen.

1094
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,480
But it would be so much easier
to fix and be on top of because

1095
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:47,560
there's one centralised.
System.

1096
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,440
Yeah, yeah.
Now there's seven things going

1097
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,240
on and I think they held to more
account than they were these

1098
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:54,560
Academy trusts, etc.
But there's just too much

1099
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,000
opportunity there.
Yeah, for too much control.

1100
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,960
And when a multi Academy trust
CEO thinks it right to pay

1101
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,280
themselves more than the literal
Prime Minister of this country,

1102
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,760
you've got to ask yourself what
on earth's going on?

1103
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,120
Yeah, I just think it's great.
Yeah, I agree.

1104
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,040
And maybe there's more we don't
know.

1105
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,520
Do you know what?
Maybe we can look into this a

1106
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,160
bit more and have more of an
opinion, but it just seems quite

1107
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,560
obvious, doesn't it?
Yeah, I just love that you, as

1108
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,600
you were saying it, I was kind
of formulating this thing in my

1109
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,560
head of like, well, that means
if the if the if you can't have

1110
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,520
a split, then it has to be one
or the other.

1111
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,120
But when it's one or the other,
they're basically the same

1112
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:24,080
thing.
It's like it's.

1113
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,640
Just apart from the trustees
private, yeah, that are just

1114
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,880
given the money for the budget
and they can do what they want.

1115
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,040
I don't know, just.
The CEO is on 7.8 million at

1116
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:33,720
this point because they've got
55.

1117
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:36,840
Schools we have we will end up
with ACEO of education the.

1118
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,360
CEO of like a district.
It's like we don't have a, don't

1119
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,680
have a local authority leader
anymore.

1120
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,800
It's just the CEO.
Of everything CEO, it's crazy.

1121
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,680
Oh.
God.

1122
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:46,520
Anyway, back to you.
Go back to our list.

1123
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,640
Yeah, that was nice little
break.

1124
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:49,720
It was different for us, wasn't
it?

1125
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,440
Mid, mid list break.
So another one, another another

1126
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,880
thing about reality is the lack
of time for professional

1127
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,920
development.
So I mean, we live, we live

1128
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:00,560
this, right?
Professional development

1129
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,800
generally in schools, and if
you're in a school, you'll know

1130
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:03,640
this.
If you're not, you might be

1131
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,560
surprised.
Generally happens like this.

1132
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,600
Once per week.
Teachers get together, they have

1133
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,560
a staff meeting.
It might be called something

1134
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,800
different.
In yours it's the CPD or the PDM

1135
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,560
Professional development
meeting, whatever, it's a staff

1136
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:16,400
meeting.
Well, clearly it's in the

1137
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:17,720
morning when everyone's fresh
and ready.

1138
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,120
Oh no, no, it's not part of the
time where you know you would.

1139
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,960
You can actually think about it.
It's tagged on to the end of the

1140
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,600
day when you're completely
exhausted, usually midweek, and

1141
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:26,520
you're lucky if it's on a
Monday.

1142
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,200
You might be slightly fresher,
but that's the reality of it,

1143
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,520
right?
But we need, we need

1144
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,720
professional development.
Going to a bet made me think,

1145
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:36,760
wow, there's so much stuff I
don't know, so much stuff that

1146
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,200
probably would be kind of good
to know that I would actually

1147
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:40,240
quite like to implement my
class.

1148
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:41,920
And they've got a million talks
going on today.

1149
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,440
They've got these table talks
over there where teachers are

1150
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:44,880
talking about all this good
practise that I don't know

1151
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,840
about.
Is that going to be implemented

1152
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,800
in my class and what's the
reality of that?

1153
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,440
Or?
The reality is, no, a bunch of

1154
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,040
knackered teachers meet once a
week forcibly, even if there's

1155
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,800
nothing to actually talk about
because it's part of directed

1156
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,240
time.
We've got to do it, we've got to

1157
00:47:58,240 --> 00:47:59,760
do it, we've got to do it.
Got to make up those directed

1158
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,480
time hours because you know, you
don't do, you don't do, you

1159
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,040
don't do hours otherwise in this
job.

1160
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,480
I don't know.
There seems to be a disconnect

1161
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,040
between the need for
professional development, which

1162
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,720
we all agree because things are
changing.

1163
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:14,560
We've literally said this in one
of our last points and the

1164
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,160
actual reality of when, when and
how we get that professional

1165
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:18,480
development.
Do you know what doubles up on

1166
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,840
the fact that we have our
professional development, Of

1167
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,880
course, we have inset days and
things like that, Sure.

1168
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,680
But in general, it's every week,
like you said, yeah.

1169
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,920
What doubles up on that impact
of how inefficient and just

1170
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,320
awful it is.
Like you said, no teacher wants

1171
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,200
to be there.
We're just taught a full day.

1172
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,440
We've got marking to do, and
we've had to go to this meeting

1173
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:35,600
instead.
That's half the time.

1174
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,240
We think it's pointless.
It's also usually ran by one of

1175
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:41,400
our own colleagues, one of us as
teachers.

1176
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,880
So like we're maths leads, for
example, we did the maths PDMA

1177
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,320
few weeks ago that we planned.
We luckily got some time out to

1178
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,120
do it, but then we've got to
deliver it.

1179
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:51,560
And we've just been teaching all
that.

1180
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,160
I've not even a chance to think
about this, what I'm delivering

1181
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,720
until one minute before I'm
delivering it because I

1182
00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:58,600
dismissed my class.
And then we go to the front and

1183
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,000
we're like, right, let's do some
time stable stuff.

1184
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,240
No one wants to be there.
I'm delivering it in a way where

1185
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,480
it could be way more efficient
if I just get more time to

1186
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,400
actually properly research,
watch it and deliver a good

1187
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,680
session.
No one's getting enough out of

1188
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,000
it.
And do you know what it can

1189
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,840
sometimes turn into?
Because it's easier to do this?

1190
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,160
Just a kind of picking session
where we say what's going wrong

1191
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,400
because it's easier to look at
stuff and say, well, you guys,

1192
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:22,480
we can improve this, this and
this.

1193
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,360
We can do that that that the
last thing teachers want to do

1194
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:30,800
after working all day is then be
cattled into this room to sit

1195
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,560
down and have someone stand at
the front and just say, by the

1196
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,000
way, guys, what you doing is not
good enough.

1197
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,320
You've got to do XYZ.
And it's because of this, even

1198
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:42,080
with the best of intentions as
to why that's being said, what's

1199
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,960
positive can come out of that.
You just, you put your heart and

1200
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,360
soul into this job because
you've got to, as a teacher, you

1201
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,640
put your heart and soul into
trying to make these changes

1202
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,400
that may be implemented in your
school or previous PDMS.

1203
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:53,920
And you've been knackered.
Someone said, oh, we got to do

1204
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,080
this now.
You're like, OK, fine.

1205
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,240
You, you put so much into it,
like you said above, directed

1206
00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:02,880
time to then sit down in the PDM
and someone say, oh, by the way,

1207
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,400
this is all wrong.
It's just exhausting and it's

1208
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:06,880
demoralising.
It's demoralising.

1209
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,480
And with the best of intentions,
we're all knackered.

1210
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:11,360
Yeah.
So I just think there's such a

1211
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,920
better way this could happen.
Book out on morning.

1212
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,960
The kids can be with some sports
coaches or something.

1213
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:18,920
Have half a day in the morning
where this is just PDM time.

1214
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,640
Because this is just as valuable
as you teaching the kids.

1215
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,760
Because this is going to make
your teaching of the children

1216
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,080
way better.
And you know what?

1217
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,840
We've booked in this
unbelievable maths expert whose

1218
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,600
entire job is being a maths
expert.

1219
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,440
So Dylan and Hayden, you can
just sit down for a bit, but.

1220
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,160
See if we're going to say we can
just come to the front.

1221
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,800
No, no, no, no, I wasn't, I
wasn't even a big I was

1222
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,200
literally going to highlight
the, the hilarious bias in this

1223
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,720
whole system of like it
generally is a staff member

1224
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:44,840
delivering CPD to other staff
members.

1225
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,080
And by the way, that staff
member that's delivering it has

1226
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,640
had no professional development.
Sometimes you'd be lucky, you

1227
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,520
know, you might go on a course
or something and your job is.

1228
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,000
And you just relay the course.
Yeah, it's like, OK, whatever,

1229
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,920
maybe that's cost efficient.
I don't whatever, I don't care.

1230
00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:58,320
But generally that's just not
the case, like when schools

1231
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,320
force out weekly CBD sessions
and stuff.

1232
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,360
I don't know, I just think, I
think, I think from top down, we

1233
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,320
like to say in teaching the
ideology is, Oh yes, staff, we

1234
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,040
have so much professional
development.

1235
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,760
We are ever changing.
We are constantly redefining

1236
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,000
ourselves and we're learning,
learning, learning.

1237
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,120
No, we're not.
Do you know what we do?

1238
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,000
Do you know what we really do is
once a year we sit down and we

1239
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,400
go haven't changed geography
this year.

1240
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,120
Here's a new scheme we're going
to do.

1241
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,320
Remember last year when, when we
we totally sold you on this

1242
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,600
scheme that we said was the best
thing ever and we made you all

1243
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,040
do this scheme?
Don't like that one anymore?

1244
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:38,200
Here's a new scheme to do and
that caught now copy paste into

1245
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,880
the other 10 subjects.
That really is probably what

1246
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,640
happens because like for 90% of
the staff, it's not real

1247
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,200
professional development.
It's not it's there's a new

1248
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:47,160
scheme.
Can you get your head around

1249
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:48,240
this new scheme?
Well, not even a new scheme,

1250
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:50,240
because that's huge.
Just a new thing that I've seen

1251
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:52,960
that's cool, Like just another
thing to do and that links in

1252
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,960
with the next thing, the reality
and teaching.

1253
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,000
Nothing is ever taken away.
Nothing is ever taken away.

1254
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,200
There's this idea, and I can't
remember the, the author, but do

1255
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,680
you remember we went on the
podcast with Matt and it was the

1256
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:05,960
Australian podcast.
The other teaching.

1257
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,560
He, he posted about this book
and it's called the pruning

1258
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,880
principle.
And the idea is that when you're

1259
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:12,360
pruning plants, you're cutting
away stuff.

1260
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:17,200
The idea is every time you start
a year in a school, you should

1261
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,400
start off with a pruning.
You should ask yourself the

1262
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,800
question before I add anything.
What can I take away that won't

1263
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,000
have an impact on outcomes?
So this idea of always lowering,

1264
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,320
lowering, reducing, reducing,
because the reality is in

1265
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,680
teaching for so many teachers is
it's always an addition.

1266
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:35,880
Here's another thing.
Here's another thing, like the

1267
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,520
PDM you just said, can you try
this now?

1268
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:38,960
Geography, Can you try that in
history?

1269
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,040
It's not.
Let's try this in history by not

1270
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,920
doing that.
It's not let's not do at the end

1271
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,200
of the lesson.
Now we have to answer the

1272
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,720
question we asked at the start.
Oh, also now can you also do a

1273
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:49,280
quiz?
Oh, and also can you also do

1274
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,320
something else?
It's not get rid of it.

1275
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,880
It's do that as well.
Do that as well and you end up

1276
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,960
teaching.
So bitty because you think I've

1277
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,600
got 7 things to take off.
I've got to do this specific

1278
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,120
spending thing here.
And then I've got to do that

1279
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,160
peer assessment there.
And I've got to make sure that

1280
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:04,440
the children have swapped their
books over.

1281
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,160
And I've got to make sure that
the children have edited their

1282
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:07,720
work because editing is the big
focus right now.

1283
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,160
But when editing becomes the big
focus, yeah, it's never, OK,

1284
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:12,840
well, this time needs to come
from somewhere.

1285
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,760
So let's just, we have to lower
the bar in something else.

1286
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,600
Never, ever, ever is it accepted
that we have to lower the bar in

1287
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,000
something else.
This is the realistic side of

1288
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,200
teaching.
We have to lower the bar in

1289
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,680
something else.
We have to get rid of something

1290
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,640
else.
We all sit there going, oh, I

1291
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,120
just how can we fit in this,
this handwriting that we, we

1292
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,280
never do.
The answer is we can't.

1293
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,640
That's why you can't answer that
question, because no one wants

1294
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,080
to say that we can't do it.
Can I summarise what I think

1295
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,360
you're saying here into a nice
fiction versus reality thing?

1296
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,280
The fiction is we're always
increasing the bar.

1297
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,840
That's the fiction.
That's what the school tells the

1298
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,520
governors and the local board
and the the Ofsted whatever.

1299
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,000
We're always raising the bar.
The bar was here last year, now

1300
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,600
the bars here, that's the
fiction.

1301
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,000
The reality is the bar Eva
doesn't change or it goes down

1302
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,640
anyway.
The reality, because do you know

1303
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,080
what you can't actually fulfil
that fiction.

1304
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:05,080
The bar does drop.
Like teachers will just not do

1305
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:05,880
something.
Properly.

1306
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,000
Well, there are 25 bars, that's
the thing, yeah.

1307
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,320
When you say I'm raising the
bar, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's in

1308
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,560
one thing.
There's fifteen other bars that

1309
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,120
we're trying to keep up and one
of them will drop.

1310
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:15,880
Off and it does, Yeah, I guess
that's better.

1311
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,920
What I'm trying to say is the
reality is one of those bars

1312
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,440
does decrease fiction is no,
none of them did all of our

1313
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,840
teachers now just do more.
So no, no, that's, that's a

1314
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,880
beautiful narrative.
You can, you can tell Ofsted if

1315
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,080
you want, But if they actually
come around and look at your

1316
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,080
school and they really dig deep,
they will see that.

1317
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,320
Oh, that bar, though.
I'll tell you what, when you

1318
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,240
introduce this thing over here,
that one did drop, even though

1319
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:37,840
you told them not to.
It did because we're human

1320
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,080
beings and that's just how it
works.

1321
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,400
I suppose the last point here,
the last point we gonna talk

1322
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,840
about, about the reality of
teaching is especially if you're

1323
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,920
outside of education or if
you're a new teacher, you only

1324
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,680
have been in one school.
Yeah, you might not know this

1325
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,560
reality very well.
I can't explain to you how

1326
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,200
different schools are.
Yeah, from one school to the

1327
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:55,520
next.
And that's in terms of

1328
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,760
well-being, that's in terms of
workload, that's in terms of

1329
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,840
outcomes, that's in terms of
what children you have in front

1330
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:04,000
of you, affluence, poverty,
opportunities for the children,

1331
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:05,920
trips.
Literally just the size of the

1332
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,480
school, whatever.
Anything like it's so, so

1333
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,080
different down to the point
where Hayden, you wanted to talk

1334
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,320
about something.
Lee mentioned he went to train

1335
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:14,720
in the school.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1336
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:17,480
And the difference between the
Rami up earlier where someone

1337
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,120
wanted to go and watch their
child do something in PPA and

1338
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,520
with Doc's time, that's one
school.

1339
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:23,880
There's another school.
There's something very

1340
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:24,960
different.
Yeah, Lee was talking to us

1341
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,080
about a school, it is in
training where they've switched

1342
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,040
and we've talked about this
before actually where they

1343
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,720
switched to a four day week for
the staff.

1344
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:34,800
So the children are still in
five days a week, but the the

1345
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,600
staff, the teachers, they do
four days and they get a whole

1346
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,880
day off.
And that whole day does comprise

1347
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,680
of PPA subject leadership,
basically just whatever admin

1348
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:45,440
stuff they've got to do
planning, just go and plan.

1349
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,160
Do you know what your Ppas all
day now, who cares?

1350
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:48,880
You're going to spend that long
doing it anyway.

1351
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,320
And the staff get the day off.
And apparently they were

1352
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,800
surveyed on it and it was
unanimous.

1353
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:56,880
You might think of course it
was, but it was unanimously

1354
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,720
positive that the staff were
like, this is so much better for

1355
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:03,560
everyone.
I, I think one day of time

1356
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,120
outside of the classroom a week
and it being flexible, like you

1357
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,960
can take it home if you want or
you don't have to be in a room

1358
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,680
because there might be something
you have to do that day.

1359
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:13,640
And then you work on the Sunday.
Teachers work at the weekend all

1360
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,080
the time.
I think that could genuinely

1361
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,120
transform a lot in this job in a
lot of schools.

1362
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,880
But let's go back to your
previous point for a second.

1363
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:27,600
The reality is there is no
collective reality that worked

1364
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:29,320
for that school for whatever
reason.

1365
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,400
And it probably probably comes
down to budget.

1366
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,720
They've probably budgeted
differently to every other

1367
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:36,880
school.
Schools are so different, which

1368
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,000
is what you were saying that I
want to say this again, there is

1369
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,840
no collect collective reality.
And I think this was a huge

1370
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,800
problem with BET, by the way, is
the idea that everyone at BET,

1371
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,200
every company there has rooted
themselves in some sort of

1372
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,160
reality of what they think is
happening in schools.

1373
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,840
And The funny thing is none of
them align because they're all

1374
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,280
rooted in a different version of
the reality because there is no

1375
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,160
collective reality of teaching.
Like you said, you can think of

1376
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,760
polar opposites in school.
I can think of the most toxic

1377
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,680
school that I've ever worked in
versus the school I work in now.

1378
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,160
I can think of a school that has
A1 form entry that started last

1379
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,920
year versus an established four
form entry school.

1380
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,720
Like they're just so different.
Plus all of the things Dylan

1381
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:17,800
just said, right?
The collective reality is just

1382
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:18,520
not there.
It's not there.

1383
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,560
And I think when we say reality
versus fiction in terms of

1384
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,000
teaching, I think the bottom
line of everything we've just

1385
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,200
said here is you cannot sit and
describe what goes in on in the

1386
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,120
school and be more than 10%
accurate across the country.

1387
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,400
Even us in this, we're sat here
saying reality, right?

1388
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,720
Realistically, we're thinking of
we're reflecting on our own

1389
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,280
experiences and people we've
spoken to.

1390
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:39,520
Are there people out there that
we haven't spoken to?

1391
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,040
You have a have a another
different version of what we've

1392
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:43,160
said?
Of course there are.

1393
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,880
So there'll be someone listens
to .2 and was like actually no,

1394
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:47,440
that's actually not the same for
mine.

1395
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,720
I actually don't feel
overwhelmed at all in my

1396
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,720
school's initiatives because my
school does have an incredible

1397
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,320
policy on how to introduce new
initiatives.

1398
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:55,440
So that one doesn't relate to
me.

1399
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,360
And you know, what's really,
really striking about that is

1400
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,920
that's so obviously true because
if you just look in the comments

1401
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,200
section, sometimes in our reels,
there'll be people who react to

1402
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,160
us reading out what a teacher
has said has happened to them,

1403
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,600
has literally happened to them
or us saying this is what we

1404
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,440
experienced in a school, this
was real.

1405
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,920
There'll be someone in comments
saying that's that that doesn't

1406
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,200
happen.
I've not seen that before.

1407
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,560
We talk about teacher martyrs,
OK, Teachers who like revel in

1408
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,360
the fact they've got to do loads
of work and it's something where

1409
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,360
it's a badge of honour.
There were people who commented

1410
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,240
saying I've never seen one of.
Them don't exist mate.

1411
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:25,880
Yeah.
Cool.

1412
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,560
OK, great.
I have.

1413
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,240
So your reality isn't the only
one when it comes to teaching,

1414
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,240
and having a bit of an open
broader mind with that would

1415
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,720
help a lot of people I think.
And trying to make a company,

1416
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,320
just going back to bed one more
time, trying to make a company

1417
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:45,240
that meets the needs of people
in multiple realities is

1418
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,720
actually really hard.
It's really, really hard to do.

1419
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,840
And that's why we see so many
little niche things, so many

1420
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,360
little gimmicky things where
we're like, clearly this

1421
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:57,440
person's, the experience of
school is very like limited to

1422
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,480
this one reality, which I'm sure
does exist.

1423
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,680
Like you said, one school might
buy in these things, but if you

1424
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,040
want a really successful company
in Ed tech, you've got, you've

1425
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,480
got to be, you've got to be
broad, you've got to fulfil that

1426
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,360
wider reality, right?
I think this is where we have to

1427
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:10,560
play our interview with Tony
Khan.

1428
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:14,400
So Tony Khan was the founder of
LBQ learning by questions.

1429
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,760
We love earning my questions
because like we said, for us,

1430
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:18,720
it's a tool that's founded in
reality.

1431
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,960
You know, you know, schools need
to find out where their kids

1432
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,480
are.
And it's fundamentally born out

1433
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,760
of his desire to help teachers
and children.

1434
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,840
And the chat we had from was
really cool, just about 5

1435
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:31,560
minutes long.
We're going to play it now and

1436
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,560
we can really get into why he
started learning by questions

1437
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,480
and how actually companies can
be rooted in the reality of what

1438
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,640
what actually what schools need
and can deliver it as well.

1439
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,120
I thought was really inspiring.
Yeah, let's play it.

1440
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:48,400
I was part of a government
organisation called Training in

1441
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,760
Enterprise Councils.
I was the chairman of East

1442
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:55,080
Lancashire and we realised that
schools were key.

1443
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,800
We didn't really think schools
were performing as they ought to

1444
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,240
have done.
And the, the government asked me

1445
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:06,800
to serve on a working on a party
about workload working party.

1446
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:09,240
There were two industrialists
there.

1447
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:14,920
And I was absolutely appalled at
the level of workload.

1448
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:19,160
You know, not just teaching was
not really it, it was the

1449
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:24,960
preparation and it was the
marking and the feedback, right.

1450
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,800
Teaching in the classes was only
a fraction of it.

1451
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:33,000
So I had all the technology at
that moment of time to be able

1452
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,040
to do white boards, and I
thought that that would help.

1453
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:39,160
So I came back and I said to my
team, come on, we're going to do

1454
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,440
white boards.
We also have the software

1455
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,960
because we did plans for
chemical plants and things like

1456
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,440
that.
So we have the software.

1457
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,400
So I said we'll do with software
because just having a white

1458
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:54,120
board is no good at all, really.
So we came back and we developed

1459
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:58,000
white boards.
First year we sell 50 and it

1460
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:03,800
doubled every year after that.
If you double it for 13 years,

1461
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,480
you get to about 200,000 a year
and that's what happened.

1462
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,520
So we have developed software
with it, but we also, as I

1463
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,720
visited a lot of classrooms, I
visited class to see how they

1464
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:18,240
were using it.
I realised that the kids, the

1465
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,080
teachers really didn't really
understand what the kids were

1466
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,280
learning.
Some were learning nothing, some

1467
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,120
were looking out of the window,
some were flicking paper pellets

1468
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:30,600
with their friends, right.
So I realised that the teachers

1469
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,440
in order to really be effective
had to know what the kids were

1470
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,760
learning.
And so we developed began to

1471
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:42,200
develop handheld devices to give
the teachers information, but

1472
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:44,360
schools didn't want more
devices.

1473
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,680
So basically when tablets came
out we saw that we could use

1474
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:55,040
those and small computers and we
continue to use questions to

1475
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:59,080
inform the teachers instantly
what the kids had learnt and

1476
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:02,440
what they hadn't learned and
what were misconceptions so that

1477
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,760
they could correct them.
I think what learning by

1478
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,760
questions does, as someone who
uses it, it allows me to do my

1479
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,240
job more and I see my job as
being a teacher.

1480
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,880
It doesn't replace the teacher,
it gives feedback.

1481
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:17,040
But what I find amazing about it
is I can see so quickly which

1482
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:18,880
children need what input from
me.

1483
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,920
But it does something else too,
because what it allows teachers

1484
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:28,040
to do, to spend energy and time
looking after the kids, finding

1485
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:33,880
out those that have issues
right, looking if they had ADHD

1486
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,360
or the start of it and so on.
And they enable the teachers to

1487
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,800
have time and energy now to deal
with that.

1488
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,320
That's a very important part of
it, is time and energy for

1489
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:48,640
teachers.
And also the kids love it

1490
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:52,480
because the kids love the
feedback and the answering

1491
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,760
questions in that way, with
feedback gives them a dopamine

1492
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,480
shot.
Every single question you

1493
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,280
actually see them going.
Yeah, got it right.

1494
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,560
That's enough, isn't?
It and actually they want more.

1495
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:06,400
They want more and more and
more.

1496
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,320
In fact, they they complain when
you stop it.

1497
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,400
Seriously, they think it's a,
it's a game.

1498
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,480
It's not a game, of course, but
they they enjoy it.

1499
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,880
They want more, so learning
suddenly becomes something

1500
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:23,520
dynamic and they're really
enjoying it.

1501
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:27,320
It's, it's refreshing to hear
someone outside of the classroom

1502
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:29,800
understanding inside of the
classroom.

1503
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,800
So well, we speak to a lot of
people, you know, we're here at

1504
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,680
BET now and a lot of people are
quite removed from the

1505
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:36,480
classroom.
They don't really get it.

1506
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,120
But it sounds like you get it,
like you're, you know, you're

1507
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,040
talking to two teachers here.
We know what it's like in the

1508
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:42,240
classroom and you're absolutely
spot on.

1509
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,320
But also the children.
I think it's really refreshing

1510
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:45,920
to hear, you know, it's not,
it's not just about the

1511
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,600
teachers, it's the pupils, it's
the children themselves that we

1512
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,600
want to achieve because at the
end of the day, they're the next

1513
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:53,320
generation.
They're going to be leading this

1514
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,680
country.
Our job is to understand and I

1515
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,400
realised not being a teacher, I
didn't really understand it, so

1516
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:04,040
I have to understand what the
job actually is.

1517
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:07,800
I still don't properly
understand it obviously, but

1518
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:12,240
actually we are beginning to
come up with something that will

1519
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:16,760
really help children and
teachers and that will change

1520
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:18,680
the world.
I think the wealth of the

1521
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:22,960
country is the skills and
knowledge of its inhabitants and

1522
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:28,960
we ignoring 1/3 of the kids,
we're not developing the skills

1523
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,560
and knowledge of them.
We've given up on them and that

1524
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:35,080
is terrible.
I agree.

1525
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,080
Thank you so much for joining us
before, before you leave us, can

1526
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,320
I ask you from your, your
wisdom, your years in this

1527
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:42,880
industry, what's the biggest
thing you've ever learned?

1528
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:48,120
Well, how difficult teaching is,
how difficult schools are or

1529
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:53,080
you've got different children,
different teachers, different

1530
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:58,560
environments, different homes
and you it's it's not just A1

1531
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:03,040
size fits all sign here.
It is very complex.

1532
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,760
What that chat made me realise
was there's so many amazing

1533
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,640
people out there.
That's what Bet actually was

1534
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,520
amazing for.
Like I said, the networking and

1535
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,440
even when we're talking about
these companies aren't maybe

1536
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:15,880
rooted in reality or they've
just got to understand it's not

1537
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,800
realistic.
It doesn't take away from the

1538
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:19,480
fact that there's people out
there trying to help other

1539
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:21,240
people, trying to do the right
thing.

1540
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:25,320
And I think speaking to Tony,
that was someone I listened to

1541
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,280
and I was like, I, I think I'd
run for a brick wall for you

1542
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,960
because you are completely
aligned with understanding how

1543
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,720
hard teaching is, but also
completely unapologetically.

1544
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:36,560
The children need to do really
well, though, and we need to

1545
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:39,600
achieve that.
Tony's 87, you know, he, he, he

1546
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,440
could have just retired.
He could have sailed off into

1547
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,840
the sunset.
He could have been quite happy

1548
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,240
with his previous businesses
where he made the Promethean

1549
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,160
boards.
But he went, no, no, I want to

1550
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,640
help children.
And that's where Ed tech can be

1551
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:52,840
amazing, I think.
And that's where it can be

1552
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:54,840
rooted in reality.
And these things can be really,

1553
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,680
really useful.
We just need to all have honest,

1554
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:02,360
open conversations about cost,
about impact, and not take

1555
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,160
things personally when actually
it just doesn't work for some

1556
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:06,600
schools.
Yeah, I'm glad you made it a bit

1557
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,040
more positive because I do worry
sometimes that I'm just sounding

1558
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:11,880
pessimistic.
And you're right, everyone there

1559
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,160
cared about the children to some
degree.

1560
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:17,480
Would were were there probably
some CEOs that maybe a bit more

1561
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:19,120
money orientated?
OK, whatever.

1562
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:20,800
I don't care.
Because you know what, we spoke

1563
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:24,680
to ACEO and he was genuinely
inspirational when he said his

1564
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:26,000
age.
I was a bit like what?

1565
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,440
So yeah, Tony, any, any I think
off off interview.

1566
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:31,560
He literally said to us, he was
like, what's the what's the

1567
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:32,800
point?
You know what, you know, I'm not

1568
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:34,360
going to be here forever, is
what he said.

1569
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,040
And as long as I can just
continue to use my money and my

1570
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:42,360
power to help children and help
teachers in schools, he was

1571
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,160
like, then I'm all right.
And he said something like that.

1572
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:47,160
And I was just like, yeah,
that's something to aspire to

1573
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:48,480
be, isn't it?
Something like that.

1574
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:50,720
Inspirational Tony, we
appreciate your time.

1575
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:53,840
I think we'll wrap it up there.
And guys, as always, if you've

1576
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,240
got this far and you haven't yet
rated us, it would really help

1577
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:57,240
us.
So leave us a rating wherever

1578
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,640
you listen to us on your podcast
and and give us a follow.

1579
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,200
Share it with someone you think
might find it useful, and we'll

1580
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:04,840
see you next week for another
episode.

1581
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:06,160
Maybe we'll see you next year at
BET.

1582
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:07,160
Oh.