Ep 95: Why Do So Many Teachers Feel Trapped In The Job?

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Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teach Sleep

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
Hayden Hayden.

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I am very, very well.
Do you know why I'm?

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Very well this week.
I didn't ask of you very well.

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I'm gonna tell you anyway, I'm
extremely well because of the

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crazy boom in listeners that
we've had no right this year.

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We were like 2025.
We're gonna, we're gonna

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continue to grow.
We're gonna continue to widen

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our horizon.
Oh my goodness, we did that.

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And some so welcome.
If you're a brand new listener,

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it's brilliant to have you.
If you're a listener who's been

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around for a while, we haven't
forgotten you.

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We appreciate you.
But you know, it's still

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exciting to see us grow and
grow.

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So thanks for listening.
If you're brand new, one thing

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I'm going to ask you to do right
away at the start, we don't, we

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don't sponsor anything.
We're not there yet.

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OK, let's be real.
So all I want you to do is leave

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us a review and share the
podcast with someone who you

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think might find it useful.
But Hayden, we're two teachers,

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just two fellas teaching in
primary school, plodding along

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as you do.
How's your first week back?

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All right, Mr Radio host, the
most perfect intro out there,

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Not even scripted off the Dome.
Oh, we've got new listeners now.

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I better actually be good at
this.

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This is just because last week
you started off by completely.

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Mocking, yeah, if you're new, if
you've not listened to last

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week's, go and listen to last
week's intro and tell me which

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one's better.
What's better, Dylan's really,

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really well worded introduction
or me mumbling into the

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microphone, I don't know.
But anyway, yeah, thank you.

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Thanks for joining us and
welcome if you're new I've I've

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had a lovely first week back.
It's.

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Been nice, isn't it?
Nice.

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It's been really, really good,
had a nice week because we've

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actually had some time out to do
our leadership as well.

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So anyone who doesn't know, we
are maths leaders at our school

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and occasionally get a bit of
time booked out to do that role,

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would you believe it?
Some teachers probably are

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thinking, no I don't because my
school gives me nothing.

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Yeah, it's crazy the amount of
teachers who lead subjects.

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Again.
We have this weird tiered system

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in school, don't we?
Where we pretend all subjects

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are equally important ever.
You can't possibly question.

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Of course all the subjects are
just as important as all the

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other subjects, but only maths
and English get time out.

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Or even the whiff of a TLR if
you lead geography.

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Or you might do that in your
their own time with no extra.

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It's just insane.
But we happen to leave mass,

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which happens to come with a
little TLR and a little bit of

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time out every now and then.
And it's just a minimum you'd

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expect really leaving this
subject, but it's.

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But yeah, it's really nice.
And we did get some time out,

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didn't we?
And we actually went into a

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classroom to look at some time
stables.

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So that was our focus.
We're looking at timestables and

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one of the classrooms wanted us
to get involved with that little

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timestable competition.
It was a year six class.

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It was very fun.
They're extremely excited about

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the idea that we were going to
sit there and do their five

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minute test.
So basically they, they, they

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have like a leaderboard and they
race who can do all.

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I think it's 100.
Was it time stable?

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Yeah, 100 * 100 times tables,
the quickest.

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That's literally it.
So we came in obviously

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thinking, yeah, yeah, whatever,
whatever.

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It's like a leaderboard Top Gear
grader.

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Literally like racing time
stickles on there somewhere and

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we were like, yeah, we can smash
this time is going down.

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Who is it?
Who's that one kid in the class

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who goes finished, done, puts
his pencil down really loudly so

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everyone else knows they're done
done, done?

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Oh, I think that was me, Dylan.
I, I went in and like, honestly,

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honestly, there was no mercy
whatsoever in my head.

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I was like, these are year 6
now.

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There are the times tables.
I'm going to set a time so

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unbelievably quick that there's
no way they'll be all year.

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I'll just be, I'll just be whack
at the top of there.

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And my heart was actually racing
when I was doing it.

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So honestly, I was getting
nervous.

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I don't know why.
I was like, I really want to do

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the best time ever and I did my
100 times table questions in one

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minute 32.
So at that point everyone's

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still writing obviously.
And I put my pen down and I did

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just go done and everyone was.
Like even I was a bit like oh I

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still have like 2 rows left at
that point.

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Honestly, but the point being
we, we put it in, the teacher

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was there, she was.
So how'd she do it?

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Because she was top of her
leaderboard.

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By the way, this isn't just that
I was being the competitive, but

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she's top of her leaderboard and
I put it in and you put yours

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in.
I'm really smugly walking out.

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OK, so hey.
And I went to a room a couple

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doors down, just a meeting room
to crack on making some staff

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meetings.
Like doing the actual work,

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Doing the actual work.
Yeah, on the 5 minutes of doing

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that and then we just got to
knock at the door, these two

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children.
Hi Miss says that you've got a

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next step and passed through my
step and I was like Oh my God

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I've got 8 * 4 wrong in the.
Middle you've got 99 / 100 and

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it only counts in their game if
they get 100, so it incentivizes

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them to actually be accurate.
And those kids couldn't have

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been happier.
Yeah, they couldn't have been

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happier.
Even can I, because I'm now the

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winner, so I only beat the
record by two seconds at one

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minute 50, whereas you
absolutely obliterated the

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record if you'd got it all
right.

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So I'm quite pleased I didn't
which I didn't have to go back

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in next time.
I'd love to hear other teachers

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who are listing who have been
ultra that class because I just,

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I just honestly, I can't show
mercy to them.

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And it's like, now I've got now
we've got our children.

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I've always thought to myself,
there'll be a day where your

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child beats you or something and
that'll be like a monumental

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day.
But it's only a monumental day

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if you never let them win.
So they can get to like

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literally like 1314.
And maybe at that point he'll

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beat me at like football or
whatever it is, or we'll play

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snooker together or something
like that.

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And I'm not going to let him win
until he actually beats me.

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So that when he does, he feels
like unbelievable.

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You are going to be gutted when
Rory beats you in a Sprint

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running race at 7 years old.
I tell you mate, I tell you he's

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going to beat you.
He's going to beat.

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I'm going to put this bat out
here now, single digit age.

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That kid is going to beat you in
a race and you're going to be so

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annoyed he's getting.
Quicker.

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I'm just getting slower.
Exactly.

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It's like a couple of years ago,
no, last year in fact.

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What the Essex is in my class
were like I could beat you in a

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race.
I could be in a race and all the

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way through my career, you know,
sort of nine years and at that

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point, no kid, no, they can't.
There's no kid at school that

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can run faster than come on, I'm
not that old yet.

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And I used to like running.
I've obviously I can beat you in

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a race And I raced a girl in my
year six class who was like the

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runner of the class as was 1 and
I was like, oh, here we go.

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I said, I said, wait for a day.
I've got my trainers.

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I'm not running in knees.
I'll slip over and break my

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knees or something.
And, and I always started

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running, started running
thinking, right, I wonder how

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much I'm going to give her how,
how much in front am I going to

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get?
And by the end of it, I was

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sprinting as fast as I could
directly level with this kid.

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And I was like, Oh my God, I'm
only going to draw.

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And I'm trying the hardest I've
ever tried to run.

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And it was at that point I
realised I'm old.

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Time to retire, time to retire
from there.

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It's willing to see the Ecps
now, like joining in on the

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playground.
And it'd be like a bit of

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football being competitive.
You're like, your time will

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come.
Enjoy it while you can young

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one, because these kids will
beat you someday.

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You're just sat there in your
little rocking chair on the

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porch of your classroom looking
at them.

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Forever.
I'm 31, like 2 grey hairs on my

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beard.
I'm like you'll see sunshine.

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You can't have the kids not beat
you that long.

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Oh, it's pathetic.
Crazy.

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What are we doing?
It really is.

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But yeah, basically don't just
let the kids win.

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It feels better when you don't
do that.

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I've got one thing I wanted to
talk about and I'm a little bit

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better.
I'm not going to lie.

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Do I feel slightly wrong for
feeling better about the fact

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that after having two weeks off,
we didn't get a snow day?

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So I was slightly annoyed.
Yes.

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Maybe maybe that's a bit too
far, but there's so many

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teachers listening now who had a
snow day.

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I saw pictures of snowmen being
built and and just teachers

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saying, oh, today off can't get
into school.

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I'm afraid.
I just thought, whatever, damn

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you, there's something special
I've got to say about it's

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snowing and you seeing children
see snow.

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I've got a very brief story.
I had a child join my class last

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year from India, could speak
English, went to an

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International School in India.
So it had good levels of English

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and could understand and could
talk.

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So it wasn't EAL where you
couldn't possibly even.

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You know, communicate straight
away.

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And she joined, Lovely girl,
really got on with her.

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And it snowed last year.
And, you know, when it snows,

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the kids get excited.
It's cool.

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It's nice.
Yeah, Lovely.

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It's like, yeah, cool, Let's
look outside.

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It's snow.
And she was, like, mesmerised by

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it.
And she just turned to me and

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said, I've never seen snow in my
life.

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No way.
And it was the first time she'd

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ever seen snow.
And I was just like, oh, that's.

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Special shutting the blinds
Maths work though, come on.

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But what's 6 * 4?
But I guess it's a wider point

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here and I wanted to highlight
this because the children came

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in this week and said there's a
weather warning for snow.

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I didn't really have the heart
to tell them that it wasn't.

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Pretty snowy.
We live in the Southeast, by the

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way.
Yeah.

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So we never get in.
Well, there's been some snow in

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this, like in Canterbury and
stuff, but we are right on the

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corner of the coast and it like
it barely snows here.

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So I was like, Oh yeah, maybe,
maybe.

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And I don't know what your
answer to this is because one of

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the kids said to me, it was a
half question, half statement.

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He basically said, well, it
snows though, right?

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If it if it does snow, right,
we're just going to go outside,

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aren't we?
Yeah, we're just going to drop

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everything and go outside.
He literally said that of course

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we are, of course it's snow.
And then another girl said,

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yeah, of course it's snowing.
Of course we're going to go

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outside.
Don't we miss the?

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Price and I was like, my gut
instinct is yeah, yeah, of

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course we are.
But then like another part of me

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thought, oh, like, I don't know,
Obviously people want to know

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how high school works every
single classrooms like facing

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onto the playground and the idea
of just going out in the middle

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of English, it starts snowing.
I was like, my gut is like,

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let's get these kids out.
Like it's snowing.

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It's going to do a how often Let
them just experience it and just

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stand in it and have a bit of
playtime because it's just nice

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because it's just fun and it's
just lovely.

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And I thought, I don't know if I
would actually because then 15

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00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,880
other classes would see it and
people might feel annoyed.

224
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,320
Oh, that class is out.
Why can't I be out?

225
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,280
And I've got to tell my kids,
and I feel like the Scrooge now

226
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,320
because I want to carry on my
kids doing their independent

227
00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,240
writing.
I don't know what the right

228
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,000
answer is.
What would you say?

229
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,400
Well, quick question for you
first.

230
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,080
Would you do it if that, if
other classes couldn't see?

231
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,040
Yes.
OK, So I think there's your real

232
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:01,120
answer.
I think you're just, you're just

233
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,080
being quite considerate, I
think.

234
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,000
I guess if I'm teachers, I don't
know, I guess I'm in the middle

235
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,520
if I'm in, if I'm in your exact
situation, I can understand why

236
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:07,680
you wouldn't.
But I think I'd still do it

237
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,240
because I'm kind of like, yeah,
go over it, though.

238
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:11,920
Yeah.
You guys don't want to do it.

239
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,960
OK, well, I'm doing it because I
think this is nice.

240
00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,240
It's like, Oh yeah, they get
this once a year if they're

241
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,160
lucky at our school.
Of course, I'm going to let them

242
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,000
go out in the snow.
And if you're not, come on, do

243
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,800
your English later.
Seriously, get the damn come out

244
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,320
for 10 minutes.
Yeah, I'll be.

245
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:26,880
I'm going to the door.
I think I'm getting to the kids,

246
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,640
right?
Goes every single classroom

247
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,760
knock violently on their window
and say and scream.

248
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,160
It's snowing, you know.
Do you think it's it's fair

249
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,560
enough that another teacher
might be annoyed?

250
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,600
I mean, it's fair enough.
I am sort of saying that in

251
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:38,080
jest.
Really.

252
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,280
But no, I'm genuinely wondering
like it because I like you said

253
00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,520
you're being considerate and
stuff, but like yeah, you should

254
00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,120
be considering.
Yeah, because at the end of the

255
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,200
day, right, you probably
wouldn't really drop everything.

256
00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,840
You'd probably find a suitable
place to stop in the lesson and

257
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,800
then do it.
Yeah, be like, OK, we're at this

258
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,280
point now.
There's not much I don't think

259
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,960
that I wouldn't drop for.
Like if they were literally in

260
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,080
the middle of doing something
that's 5 minutes left, I'm like,

261
00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:58,640
well, let's finish this then.
Yeah.

262
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,320
And then go outside.
But what I mean is you wouldn't

263
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,200
like in the middle of your
sentence of input.

264
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,080
You wouldn't be like so And then
if we'd look at page, let's go

265
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,480
outside, you would like.
Whereas for the other classes,

266
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,800
they may well be literally in
the middle of their five minute

267
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,160
input.
They're 30 seconds away from

268
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,400
finishing.
They just hook these kids in and

269
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,640
then and then they see your kids
running around and they'll be

270
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,600
like, oh, that's the worst
possible timing for you to do

271
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:17,920
that.
So I get it.

272
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,600
But do you know what the
compromise is?

273
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,280
Vast school is completely ready
for everybody else goes to our

274
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,720
field, then no one can see us.
Then everyone can see us walk.

275
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:31,720
Past in our cats, We're going to
the nature area to write a story

276
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,440
about a bug.
Yeah, just make up.

277
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,240
Just make up as you're.
Making a snowball in your hands.

278
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,480
The bug is a snowball.
Right.

279
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:39,640
Really.
Really, really.

280
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,920
Literally really important
question for you.

281
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,600
When you do in the past, when
you have been out in the snow

282
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,760
with the kids, do you have any
rules?

283
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,120
Oh, well, yeah, I mean 100%.
Like, what you don't want is the

284
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,320
kids coming back with snow down
their back, like wet, like

285
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,320
everywhere because it's been
jumping into snow and the rules

286
00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,040
are the rules are almost common
sense.

287
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,240
I, I do, you know what I
sometimes feel like as a teacher

288
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,400
when I, when I think to myself,
well, this is common sense.

289
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,960
I forget I the kids don't have
that.

290
00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:07,560
You are there.
Common sense.

291
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,520
Common sense is stuff that you
build up overtime, and that's my

292
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,080
role.
Can I do a really good example

293
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,280
of this?
Many years ago, a kid we went

294
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,840
out to the snow and this is this
is a complete lack of common

295
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,960
sense here, right?
Picked up a stone and said can

296
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:19,920
I?
Can I roll?

297
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,680
Like roll.
This up in snow and throw it and

298
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,920
genuine reasoning is like
because then it's got like it

299
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,400
will be more likely to stay
together.

300
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,000
It's got a stone in it.
I was like, just think for one

301
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,400
second about what you're asking
me to lob at another child's

302
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,200
head.
You are asking to Chuck a stone.

303
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,120
A poor old Jimmy over there.
He doesn't want a stone chucked

304
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,400
in his head.
When you asked me to add rules,

305
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,920
I was expecting rule 1 to me.
We don't rose those.

306
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:48,800
Yeah, no, it has to be.
It has to be.

307
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,560
I learned that the hard way.
We've just done space in school

308
00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:53,560
and I know there's a call to the
Earth.

309
00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:55,920
I just like a rock in the
middle.

310
00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,160
I did a rule once.
If anyone starts crying because

311
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,360
like we've because we've taken
it too far, then we all go in

312
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,160
and they weren't there, but it
worked because they were then

313
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:05,400
really careful.
It worked because they were

314
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,560
really, really, really sore and
had cuts on their heads, but

315
00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:09,840
none of them cried, none of them
cried and it was fine.

316
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,200
You got bruised, you got a cut
above your eyelid, it's all

317
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:13,160
good, Mrs Stevens said.
Just.

318
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:13,840
Don't cry.
It was fine.

319
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,520
No one cried.
It was weird because it was just

320
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,520
like a congregation of kids the
other side who were all huddled

321
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,720
over her and they look, they
look like they were crying, but

322
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,000
they couldn't.
See So what what a way to like,

323
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,120
you know, we do like our less
are like podcasts that were like

324
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,000
set boundaries but cry if anyone
cries in the boundary.

325
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,720
It works, though, because I tell
you what they're all like.

326
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,200
Well, maybe I shouldn't do that.
Maybe I shouldn't go up and

327
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,200
smash this snowball in their
face, but they might cry.

328
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,640
Then we have to go in.
God if if not crying was the

329
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,320
boundary with me In lower school
we didn't do anything ever.

330
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:41,800
Yeah, yeah.
This is just it.

331
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,160
This person looked at me.
Oh God, so are you going to do

332
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:47,640
it then?
That's the at the end of this.

333
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:48,680
What's your conclusion?
We haven't.

334
00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:50,480
We haven't had a snow day yet.
Let's assume it's going to

335
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,800
happen.
I think, I think I would rather

336
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,040
do it and then face the
consequence of someone being

337
00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,040
annoyed at me than not do it and
be like, I should have let those

338
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,240
kids paint the snow, Yeah.
Is there a middle ground could

339
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:03,400
be done?
Maybe you can just like send a

340
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:04,960
kid round to be like, we're
thinking of going outside.

341
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,240
What do you think?
Well, the middle ground will

342
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,720
probably be pre empting it like
just me on Monday going to SRT

343
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,920
and we're like if this does
happen, I will think I think I

344
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,800
really want to just do this for
5 minutes.

345
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,800
And if they're like no because
or yes because then you can it's

346
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,520
my boss sitting in the layout,
blah OK no problem.

347
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,960
But I don't know, maybe it's pre
empting or maybe it's just say

348
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,240
nothing, do it anyway and then
face consequences which tends to

349
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:26,400
be how I live my life to be
honest with you.

350
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,080
Just just do what I think is the
right thing and see afterwards

351
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,200
if someone's got a problem.
With it.

352
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,320
Oh, you had a problem?
That's you.

353
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:36,840
Oh, all right.
Deal with it.

354
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,960
OK, anyway, you mentioned
something, I have a quick chat

355
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,920
now if we get to the bulk of
this while in a little catch up

356
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,240
very briefly because you talked
about AI and I think we've done

357
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,200
a few episodes on AI before.
There was this big wave of like,

358
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,440
yeah, AI for everything.
And it was like awesome.

359
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,880
We were well behind that.
I wouldn't say then it went the

360
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,320
opposite way at all, but it kind
of had a bit of a lull where it

361
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:57,840
was like, OK, everyone knows it
exists now.

362
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,080
We're kind of all cemented in
our beliefs, whether it's good

363
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,760
or bad, and people weren't
really shifting too much one way

364
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,560
or the other.
It's maybe not developed as

365
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,800
rapidly as people thought.
It was like this really big

366
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,520
start of like, Oh my God, AI is
going to take overlook what it

367
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:09,720
can do.
From yesterday we could do

368
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:10,600
nothing.
Now we can do this.

369
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,640
Yeah.
And it's like a year later it

370
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,480
was like, we can.
We can still do this though.

371
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,320
Yeah, and not we just know about
it.

372
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,360
And I think maybe that's what
you want to talk about now.

373
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,280
But yeah, in general, you know,
using AI definitely has its

374
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,200
place.
Where have you found it then?

375
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,840
Really, really useful where
you'd still say to all of our

376
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,720
audience listening now like
guys, listen, if you're not

377
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:27,920
using it for this, you should at
least.

378
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,080
Try it.
Honestly, lesson design in

379
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,160
general like there just has a
very broad term so.

380
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:33,720
What do you mean?
Because I so in my head, a

381
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,760
teacher, I still think a teacher
has to be really heavily

382
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,480
involved personally in the
structure and like, yeah, how a

383
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:40,840
lesson goes.
So what do you mean by lesson?

384
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,120
Design So 2 examples over the
Christmas holidays.

385
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,360
This is two ways I used AI
really, really effectively.

386
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,560
I was, I'd mapped out my English
MTP, my medium term plan, and I

387
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,120
was starting to actually plan
the individual lessons and I

388
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,200
got, you know, bulk them out
with, with tasks and things and

389
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,600
a couple of lessons I was really
struggling with like, I'm not

390
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,680
really sure where I want to go
with this exactly.

391
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,400
I want to go with this.
I thought I just, I wonder if

392
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,120
any ideas out there.
And quite often I'd Google it.

393
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:03,920
You'd go on twinkle.
There'd be a twinkle pack that

394
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,360
you can redownload for this or
whatever.

395
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,760
And I was like, I'm going to put
it into AII wonder what that can

396
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:08,800
do.
It was the first time I'd done

397
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,360
it.
And I just said, this is my

398
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,280
learning objective.
These are the kids I'm teaching,

399
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,320
think of some ideas for tasks,
and it just obviously just got

400
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,240
with the entire Internet and
just thought of some really cool

401
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,360
stuff.
I didn't actually ironically use

402
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,160
any of them, but they
immediately inspired me and I

403
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,240
was like, Oh yes, I don't know
what I can do now because that

404
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,680
made me think of something.
That's such a good way to use AI

405
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,200
because I think what that can be
summarised with, and I think AI

406
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,720
does this really well.
Is it just refines your

407
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:33,520
searching?
Yeah.

408
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,120
How many times have you been in
a Google black hole as a teacher

409
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,400
searching for the exact right
thing that's in your head or

410
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,040
that bit of inspiration and
you're like 7 pages deep and

411
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,200
it's just not hitting in the
mark?

412
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,080
AI is so good at basically doing
that job for you in a

413
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,880
millisecond and then and then
presenting it to you, like you

414
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,360
said, to still inspire you.
Not to say it's all built

415
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,360
already, it's done.
AIS got the job, but that

416
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:55,880
inspiration comes so much
quicker.

417
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,560
But then what was also good,
this is kind of a middle.

418
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,080
This wasn't what I was thinking
of with my 2:00.

419
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,880
But when I did then think of the
task, it was kind of inspired by

420
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,400
and I needed to bulk out one of
them involved like writing quite

421
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,720
a bit for the task.
And I was like, this is quite

422
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,200
generic.
I wonder if I can just tell AII,

423
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,440
can you write me a passage?
Can you think of a a paragraph

424
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,280
where I can, where it's got
these conjunctions in it and I

425
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,000
can do this task with it.
And it just wrote a really good

426
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,120
one.
I was like, cool, let's save me

427
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:17,680
10 minutes.
Yeah.

428
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,840
But then the big one for me,
well, especially with English

429
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,720
is, you know, particularly our
school, I'm sure most schools do

430
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,320
this, but we like to show the
children good examples.

431
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:27,440
We call them a waggle.
Oh, yeah.

432
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,040
It's what a good one looks.
Like how can you write something

433
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,240
well without seeing a good
example?

434
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,440
Exactly like you.
That's sort of perfect.

435
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,040
Like this is kind of what I want
you to achieve at the end of

436
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,280
this unit, this level of writing
and AI is Oh my God, it's so

437
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:40,800
good.
The amount of times in the past

438
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,880
I've sat there and spent an hour
writing a bag or because I'm

439
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,120
like, oh, wait, no, I'm going to
teach the subjunctive form.

440
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:46,920
And I haven't modelled any of
that in this writing.

441
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,880
Oh, start again.
I just went into AII, spent

442
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,560
maybe 5 minutes writing the the
prompt because you can write

443
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:53,760
reading on prompt.
So a detailed I.

444
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,680
Read.
It was 3 paragraphs long where I

445
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,480
was like this is the audience.
This is the level I wanted

446
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,760
written for it.
It's a balanced argument with

447
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,040
what we were doing it need.
I want it to have very

448
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,720
specifically one introductory
paragraph.

449
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,960
I want one for one against one
conclusion at the end.

450
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:12,520
I want it to include about 5 or
6 different grammar things that

451
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:13,920
I was going to be teaching over
the next few weeks.

452
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,040
And then I just press enter.
And I did that four times and I

453
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,079
ended up getting four really
good bits of writing out of it.

454
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,640
I slightly, slightly edited some
of them just to be like just

455
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,720
perfect for what I was teaching.
But honestly, 99% of the work

456
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,760
was done and they were good
examples of writing.

457
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,760
They were really good.
Yeah, just as good as what I'd.

458
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,760
Write and I think part of part
of, you know, teaching and being

459
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,520
more proficient and and
efficient rather is accepting

460
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,200
that you're, I'm not an author.
You're not an author.

461
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,280
Yeah, but we want, we want a
waggle to meet the ends like,

462
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,120
like what we want to teach the
children and see them right.

463
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,320
So AI is amazing for that and I
think the really powerful thing,

464
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,800
you've hit the nail on the head.
You spend ages writing one

465
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,000
waggle what a good one looks
like for anyone.

466
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,520
This thing, I think I said that,
but we spend ages writing one

467
00:17:58,640 --> 00:17:59,840
and be really proud of it at the
end.

468
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,680
It might be really good, but you
want children to experience

469
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:04,560
loads.
Yeah.

470
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,280
You want to change and see lots
different.

471
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,640
You want to change the kind of
setting and, and show the

472
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,720
children.
You know, we've seen this really

473
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,080
good example of a text.
What about if it was set in a

474
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:14,640
graveyard?
Instead and you just.

475
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,240
Shifted the tone completely and
you can do that with your

476
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,040
writing by keeping the
structure, but we're going to

477
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,760
shift the tone here by or maybe
slightly even change the genre

478
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,760
sometimes.
And I know you look at one genre

479
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,760
at a time, but that's a really
powerful thing for children to

480
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,600
see how tweaks can change
something and make the reader

481
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,320
feel something different.
So as a writer, when they

482
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,760
experience that themselves, they
can think, OK, well, I'm going

483
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,520
to try and do that because now
instead of a cemetery, mine's

484
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,240
going to be set in Candyland.
And it'll suddenly it's really

485
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,880
positive.
But I can still take those

486
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,040
structures.
Yeah, those actual sentence

487
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,280
types and say, well, here I made
the author feel scared by

488
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:48,320
building tension.
Here.

489
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,920
I'm going to make the author
feel a sense of, you know,

490
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,120
enjoyment or excitement for
where they are by changing the

491
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:56,080
words and stuff.
And that's like, that's what you

492
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,400
want when kids write.
And AI can be really powerful.

493
00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,600
With that, well, here's the crux
of it.

494
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,440
Here's what it allowed me to do
that I wouldn't have.

495
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,600
I just wouldn't I have done, I
would have been able to do it,

496
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,800
but I wouldn't have done it
would have taken too long is my

497
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,840
first lesson.
Now when I'm introducing this

498
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,280
topic on balanced arguments is
an ideas party lesson and they

499
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,680
have all four of these waggles
that I generated and I don't

500
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:15,760
tell them they're balanced
arguments.

501
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:16,560
I'm telling them anything
really.

502
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,640
I'm just being like, I just have
some question prompts on the

503
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,440
board like what is this?
Who is this written for?

504
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,800
Who do you think is written by?
What's their purpose?

505
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,600
Are there any similarities in
the features you've seen?

506
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,080
You can't do that without having
multiple.

507
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,360
Are there any features in there
that you haven't really seen?

508
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,440
Like, you know, compared to like
we've just done narrative, It's

509
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,640
like, what things are in there?
What things aren't in there?

510
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,160
You can't do that without
multiple waggles.

511
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,960
And it allowed me to do that
lesson, which I think is going

512
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,200
to be a really rich lesson
because of that.

513
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,000
So yeah, little little plug to
AI there.

514
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,120
It's a good tool.
I was just using ChatGPT.

515
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,640
It's completely free to use.
You just literally have to sign

516
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,400
up, make an account.
There is a paid version.

517
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,880
I don't.
Think there's no such thing as a

518
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,040
free thing, Aiden?
Yeah.

519
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:54,040
Where's all your details going?
Pay with your data.

520
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,040
Pay with your data but it.
Is, but it is free.

521
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:58,360
That's free.
Yeah.

522
00:19:58,360 --> 00:19:59,440
So yeah, I had a really, really
good time.

523
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:00,480
Good.
Interesting.

524
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,080
Amazing, right?
Let's crack on then.

525
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,480
With this episode, we're taking
a look at why so many teachers

526
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,720
feel trapped.
It's a really interesting

527
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,600
question to me.
Let's play the Jingle and let's

528
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:17,000
dive into it.
Before we dive into this

529
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,640
question, why teachers feel
trapped Immediately when we

530
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,040
thought about talking about
this, our first thought is

531
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,520
always what teachers talk about
all the time.

532
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,360
What can we give a voice to?
What can we try and explain?

533
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,240
What can we try and make people
relate to right, our audience?

534
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,240
That's all we think about.
And and as an offshoot of that,

535
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,680
I would say sometimes it can
feel negative.

536
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,400
OK.
And we do sometimes get messages

537
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:40,760
from people.
I just want to highlight this

538
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:41,920
because I think they're fair
enough.

539
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,720
I really do.
We got a message recently.

540
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,640
It wasn't even a message.
It was a comment on something.

541
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,880
And we post reels on Instagram,
on Tiktok and things like that.

542
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,120
And, you know, the ones that
seem a bit more negative do get

543
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:53,520
more traction.
Therefore they get more

544
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,960
comments.
Therefore we get more eyes on

545
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,800
the screen.
And a lot of the people watching

546
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,520
right now might have come from
one of those reels.

547
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,160
And I just want to reference
something someone said because

548
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,880
it really did make me think for
a second.

549
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,920
And I thought, do you know what?
No, I, I back ourselves here and

550
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,360
this person essentially said,
you know, you guys felt like you

551
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,360
were so positive at the start
and it was, it was like nice to

552
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:15,320
listen to.
And lately it feels like you may

553
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,920
be shifting a bit into the
negativity.

554
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,480
And there's one sentence in
particular, which was if I was

555
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,240
an ECT listening, I think I'd
question my profession choice

556
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,360
right now.
And I thought to myself, it's

557
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:27,560
not nice to hear someone say
that being negative.

558
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:31,680
But then I thought, no, I just
think we're doing the right

559
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,040
thing.
And I was very cordial reply

560
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,640
back because it is.
It's a fairpoint.

561
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:41,240
But I just wanted to talk about
defining negativity and realism,

562
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,760
OK?
Because you listen.

563
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,400
We are just trying to be
realistic.

564
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,800
And I think that if you go
through life trying to

565
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,600
constantly avoid being quote
negative, it allows things to

566
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,040
fester that I've just wrong.
So one of my favourite comments

567
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,960
underneath was from an ECT
replying who said do you know

568
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,640
what?
Hearing these guys talk about

569
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,520
this stuff helps me realise it's
happening everywhere.

570
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,800
It helps me know I'm not alone.
It helps me understand that it's

571
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,640
not me, it's the system that's
broken.

572
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,000
And I was like, that's why,
that's why we do it.

573
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:15,760
Yeah, I think that I think
that's perfect.

574
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,480
It is about being real.
That's what we do.

575
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,160
So maybe we should just redefine
very quickly.

576
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,000
What what is the point of this
podcast?

577
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,000
Seriously, an actual big
question because we're 95

578
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,600
episodes in, right?
I reckon if you spoke to us a

579
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,360
year and a half ago when we
started this, you said, what do

580
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:30,120
you think you'll make it to 95
would be like, Oh, I don't know,

581
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,520
we might run out of ideas by
then, but we haven't.

582
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:33,960
We're still here.
We're still talking about stuff

583
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,360
like what what is the purpose of
this podcast?

584
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:40,760
For me, it is to be to talk
about the things that maybe

585
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,840
people feel a bit nervous about
talking about sometimes.

586
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,600
To be really honest, again, even
even with that fear of should I,

587
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,480
should I say this?
Well, I get in trouble for

588
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,560
saying this.
It's like, well.

589
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,200
Will I look like a bad teacher?
Yeah, same thing.

590
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,680
This the optics is like, well,
maybe do you know what?

591
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,120
Clearly people maybe think that.
About us.

592
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,000
But the vast majority of people
think thanks for saying it and

593
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,640
this we're gonna be
unapologetically doing that.

594
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,480
Basically, we're not rude often
I don't think, but we just say

595
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,640
exactly what you think and it
might be a different opinion,

596
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,440
but for many people it's just
opening up that and we want to

597
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,560
be extremely honest.
We're never going to hide the

598
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,240
truth because it feels like it's
negative.

599
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,280
If anything, we're going to
highlight it more because so

600
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,520
many people feel that way.
One thing we've always strived

601
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,800
to do, so let us know if you
feel like this does come across,

602
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,080
especially if you've been
listening for a while.

603
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,160
It's actually give solutions.
We really, really try hard when

604
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,240
we do it.
When we plan an episode, we're

605
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,920
like, if it, if it is like a
critique of the system, we

606
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,480
usually try and say by the end
of it, should we at least like

607
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,360
think of our own ideas of how
that can be solved.

608
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,480
Otherwise you are just moaning.
And I and I and I think

609
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,160
sometimes the reels that your,
your post is just a snippet of

610
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,800
an episode.
And it might be that bit where

611
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,520
we are moaning because that's
the bit people relate to and

612
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,120
that's the bit that blows up.
And then if you're not listening

613
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,240
to that, well, do you know what?
For 20 minutes after that we

614
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,840
spent talking about like
solutions to this problem and

615
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,640
what could, what could be great
in teaching.

616
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,080
So yeah.
Yeah, and there are lots of good

617
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,280
things about teaching and we're
gonna unapologetically talk

618
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,800
about all of them.
We're gonna talk about the great

619
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,000
things, the the medium things,
the annoying things.

620
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,880
And that's why we're here.
We're a safe space for teachers.

621
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:04,680
Get in touch.
The amount of messages we get

622
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,080
who are saying, yeah, I've seen
this, I've seen that, guys, we

623
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,480
are your safe space.
Get in touch with us.

624
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,520
And if you're a new listener,
let's crack on with today's

625
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,760
chat.
So I talk to a lot of teachers,

626
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,600
obviously all the time.
And the number one thing I hear

627
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,560
is the retention and recruitment
crisis.

628
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:19,560
Yeah, cool.
Got that.

629
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,480
People are leaving, people
aren't joining.

630
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,960
That's a huge problem.
Yep.

631
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,120
And then I see a lot of loud
people online talking about how

632
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,160
no, it's fine, you shouldn't
moan about anything, you know,

633
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,400
just being a teachers, being a
teacher, you know, just got a

634
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,560
big nothing's too much for the
kids.

635
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,480
It's a vocation.
Completely disagree with all of

636
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,560
that.
Anyway, there is a huge middle

637
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,640
ground that and I'm talking a
huge middle ground.

638
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,880
So many teachers and you
probably know them or you

639
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,720
actually are one yourself who
wants to leave the profession

640
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,320
but doesn't feel like they can.
And this is idea of being

641
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,760
trapped.
OK, so let's before we talk

642
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,240
about why teachers do feel
trapped, what is driving so many

643
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,800
teachers to think, look, I want
to leave this profession.

644
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,040
What's what's that seed where
you know you have to want to

645
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,160
leave to be trapped somewhere.
You're not trapped.

646
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,760
If you did it yourself and
you're choosing to do it.

647
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,680
If you lock yourself in the
toilet to go to the toilet,

648
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,520
you're not trapped.
You just don't want to come in.

649
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:09,840
You're choosing to be in there,
but it's.

650
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,760
Time.
To leave the toilet, Hayden, you

651
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,400
can unlock the door and leave.
What a great.

652
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,160
People who are trapped feel like
they can't and it's not a nice

653
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,040
place to be after you've gone to
the toilet being trapped.

654
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,520
Back to that radio host.
You, just you.

655
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:20,160
Just you.
Just.

656
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:21,440
Your words are great today.
Don't.

657
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,200
Your words are great.
You're not dumbling them up like

658
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,440
normal.
I don't know if you're being

659
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,320
sarcastic.
No, I'm not.

660
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,160
You're doing great, but I'm
listening.

661
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,240
What is it Hey there, what is it
that's driving this desire for

662
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,120
teachers to think I want to
leave.

663
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,360
I feel trapped, cool, but I I
want to leave in the.

664
00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:35,320
Fact.
You know what, we've got a bit

665
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,120
of a list here and I'm going to
go out of order here because

666
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:40,720
there's one thing that that hits
home to me that I feel like

667
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,600
probably is the one people don't
want to mention.

668
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:43,880
It's the one people don't want
to say.

669
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,360
It's the pay.
Seriously, people don't want to

670
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:47,920
talk about that because I want
to teach you not to do it for

671
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,280
the money.
And you get totally convinced.

672
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:50,800
Oh, that's how oh, I don't feel
like that.

673
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,160
Like I do actually like pay my
mortgage.

674
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:53,640
Oh no, I did want to go on
holiday next year.

675
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,640
And people are like, oh, I can't
say that I can't talk about pay,

676
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,160
but the stagnating pay.
It is real.

677
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:00,880
You can literally as an NQT go
to work.

678
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,000
If you work with someone that
was has been teaching for 15

679
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,600
years and ask them about what
their lifestyle was like 15

680
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,760
years ago when they started.
It will not be like yours.

681
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,440
I promise you that they will
have had so much more stuff than

682
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,760
you, so much more access to
things, some people holidays, so

683
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,320
much more disposable income.
And that's just true.

684
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,000
And they did the same job as you
15 years ago.

685
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,040
That's not even that long
really, if you think about it.

686
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,360
So the pay has stagnated.
That's the first one.

687
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,880
Yeah, that's absolutely true
that that is.

688
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,640
And you're allowed to complain
about that.

689
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,120
Like this is one of the most
driving forces we've had of

690
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:29,760
people being annoyed at us
actually is US saying about pay.

691
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,560
I don't care if you're annoyed
at me for talking about pay.

692
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,040
We're professionals and it's
it's going down in real.

693
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:36,200
Oh.
But people get paid worse,

694
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,320
Dylan.
People get paid worse.

695
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,280
Who do you think you are?
Yeah.

696
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:41,200
Well, yeah, because I think I'm
a professional who just wants to

697
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,000
maintain the standard.
Why I chose to get into this

698
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,640
career in the first place.
Do we want it to be a career

699
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,120
which is appealing to people or
not?

700
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:50,920
It's a very simple question.
Yeah, let's stop doing that

701
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,360
weird thing where we say how
important this job is, but then

702
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:55,120
don't back it up with the pay.
Like, stop it.

703
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:56,280
It doesn't go together
otherwise.

704
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,320
Yeah, This is why we're in the
problem.

705
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,440
Right now, as we said long ago,
it's not a race to the bottom.

706
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,480
It's one of our first phrases in
this podcast.

707
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,120
We are not racing to the bottom.
Stand up for yourself.

708
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:06,720
The pay is a legitimate reason
that you might want to leave the

709
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,080
profession, and you know it's OK
to say that.

710
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,680
There's the obvious reason,
increasing market we talk about

711
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:11,720
a lot.
I don't really want to go into

712
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,520
it too much.
I mean, teachers know about

713
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:14,080
this.
Yeah.

714
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,880
Workload is increasing, and it
never seems to stop.

715
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:19,840
I feel like, yes, as you get
through your career, I

716
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,240
definitely now do less work than
when I was an ECT.

717
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:23,400
Yeah.
And absolutely.

718
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,320
That probably should be the way.
Do you know, I mean, you're

719
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,000
learning your trade as an ECT.
You're gonna plan lessons in

720
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,360
more detail because do you know
what?

721
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,960
By doing that, eventually the
experience pays off.

722
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,520
That's part of it.
But it feels like never, ever

723
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,920
ending, changing to this,
changing to that for what feels

724
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,920
like crazy, pointless reasons.
That just adds workload.

725
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,440
And too often I think as
teachers, we feel like work is

726
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,480
put on us for the sake of work
being put on us.

727
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:48,840
For that.
People who aren't doing the work

728
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,440
look like they're doing work.
It's like, well, I'm out of the

729
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,160
classroom.
I'm not going to do anything.

730
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,320
I'm in a teaching position, but
I have a lot of time not

731
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,480
teaching.
I need to be seen to be doing

732
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,920
something for learning.
And me doing something for

733
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,320
learning means that I'm going to
have a box for people who are

734
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,440
learning in the classroom to be
doing something, not me.

735
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,520
Yeah, we talked about it before
that frustrating, that toxic

736
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,240
need for change, didn't we?
It's like a if something's not

737
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,040
changed in two years, it has to
be changed because it's

738
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,440
automatically bad now.
If it's not been changed, that's

739
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,320
not actually how things work,
but that seems to be how it

740
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,880
works in teaching.
Can I very quickly mention, I

741
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,200
know it's I'm going to go two in
a row here.

742
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,080
Hey, I'm very sorry, but this
is, you talked about the pay, a

743
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,480
big thing that people don't like
to talk about.

744
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,680
Honestly, for me, something that
I really, really struggle with

745
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,640
as a teacher and have seen over
the course of my career is the

746
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:37,320
consistent chipping away at
funding and cuts and the system

747
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,320
not working for so many children
over time, again and again,

748
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:42,680
they're not getting the support
that they need.

749
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,680
It is literally heartbreaking.
Like genuinely like you go into

750
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,240
teaching for one reason, right?
Yeah.

751
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,080
You want a semi decent
lifestyle.

752
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,240
OK, cool.
I could have got a semi decent

753
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,880
lifestyle doing a few jobs.
I could have trained up to do

754
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,120
them in a different way.
Going to teach him because you

755
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,360
like being around the children
and want to help other people.

756
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:03,640
And when you're in the system
that is constantly belittling

757
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,080
everything you do is not enough
because you physically can't

758
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,240
meet the needs of all the kids
in your class, that eats away at

759
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,560
your soul.
And as a teacher, that is a huge

760
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,480
driving factor for people being
like, do you know what?

761
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,280
I can't do this anymore.
See you later.

762
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,960
Yeah, and it's sad and those and
that's like the worst way to

763
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,680
leave as well, isn't it?
Because you feel, you've said

764
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,440
this before about the idea of
feeling defeated.

765
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,520
Remember there was a few
episodes ago where you were, you

766
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,480
were a bit down, I think.
And now looking back, you were

767
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,400
really like, I think annoyed at
the system.

768
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,200
And you were saying how if it
ever drove you to that point

769
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,560
where you had to leave, you
would feel really defeated.

770
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:37,560
And that's kind of what you're
saying.

771
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,440
It's like we care about the kids
and seeing them literally not

772
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,520
get the care they need because
because of the like, the system,

773
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,000
not even you is really
demoralising.

774
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,680
And it is a reason that people
want to leave because they don't

775
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,120
want to be part of that.
They don't want to feel like

776
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,280
they're contributing to these
kids, like not getting what they

777
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,960
need because you're the person
that's actually at the front

778
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,840
line with them.
I feel like that's what rubs me

779
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,360
up the wrong way.
If people label what we do as

780
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,840
negative, I think it's very
simplistic just to say, oh,

781
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,160
that's negative, it's not a
positive thing.

782
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,080
Why are you saying that?
You're making the profession

783
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,720
look bad.
That person saying like an ECT.

784
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,560
If I was listening to your stuff
guys, I'd be questioning my my

785
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,960
job as an ECT.
Good.

786
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,800
Yeah, honestly, is your is your
option that they shouldn't be?

787
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,120
Is your option that you want the
ECT's to go into this job

788
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,600
completely blind of the
problems?

789
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,160
Or do you want them to
understand them, realise it's

790
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,880
not their fault, thrive
hopefully as a result because

791
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,840
they have control over what they
can have control over and be the

792
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,760
best teacher they possibly can
be in the system?

793
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,760
Or do we want to gas them into
thinking, oh it's all good guys,

794
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,200
I'm going to mention all this
stuff which we because it's

795
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,840
negative, I'm not going to say
it.

796
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,560
No, I am.
I'm going to say it louder.

797
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,120
Yeah.
Because hopefully if you know

798
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,360
what you're getting yourself
into, you can prepare yourself

799
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:45,560
for it.
You can stay in the profession

800
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:46,840
longer.
That's what we need.

801
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,200
You know, something maybe we've
never thought of before is

802
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:56,240
NQTSECTS that are like clued up
can actually start fighting the

803
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,720
fight, almost like doing doing
this stuff.

804
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,800
You know, why should we let
people that?

805
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,800
Why should we make it so that it
takes three years from to figure

806
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,680
out themselves?
Oh, the system's completely

807
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,160
broken.
It would actually be really

808
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,560
beneficial to everybody if ECT
is new straight away and started

809
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,000
trying to drive for change
straight away as well.

810
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,840
Because you know what, that's a
huge chunk of people that are

811
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,160
kind of like automatically
they're not on the other side of

812
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,600
this battle if you know, I mean,
I reckon a lot of it comes from

813
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,120
you go back to look, you go and
talk to me as an ECT.

814
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:21,520
I was on the other side of the
fence.

815
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:22,800
I didn't know about this stuff
yet.

816
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,000
So I was working on holy hours
and kind of being like, oh,

817
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,760
that's the expectation.
Why isn't everyone else doing

818
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,320
it?
I was the the other side of what

819
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:31,480
we're trying to fight against
now.

820
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,600
And if I was just a bit more
clued up, I might not have been

821
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,560
a barrier to actually making
some change happen.

822
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,000
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's, it's, it's absolutely

823
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,920
true.
I think All in all it's a

824
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,840
positive thing to be as
transparent as possible.

825
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,520
Absolutely agree.
More things guys.

826
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,160
We can describe them quickly
before we get into it.

827
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,600
Poor behaviour, different
schools in their culture in

828
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,040
general, parent culture,
basically how you're treated as

829
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,600
a professional.
It just seems to be at the point

830
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,880
now and if you talk to anyone
who's done a profession for a

831
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,720
long time, it always feels like
the good old days are behind us

832
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,360
for many reasons.
But this is one of those where

833
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,160
people do say, look, behaviours
got worse for many reasons.

834
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,320
I'm not pointing the finger at
anyone, but at the end of the

835
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:10,840
day, as a teacher, you're the
one bearing the brunt.

836
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:11,960
Of that, it impacts you more
than you think.

837
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,480
I spoke to a friend recently who
left teaching recently and then

838
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,800
came back to teaching a year
later in a different school.

839
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,600
And it.
Only by doing that did it make

840
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,440
him realise that a huge part of
the reason he thought he didn't

841
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,320
want to teach anymore was
because the behaviour at the

842
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,840
school, the culture at the
school he was working at before,

843
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,280
was really quite negative and.
Important The children or the

844
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,440
adults in there?
It was more the children, but it

845
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,400
was obviously it was kind of
everything in terms of the

846
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,080
children weren't behaving very
well because they weren't very

847
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,320
good behaviour routines in the
school.

848
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,520
So it's like it was a bit of
everything, but the behaviour in

849
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,040
general wasn't very good.
And he said he's working at a

850
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,520
school now where the behaviour
is impeccable.

851
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,320
Like the children are extremely
polite.

852
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,400
The the rules, the expectations
are really, really high and it

853
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,920
makes teaching so much more
enjoyable.

854
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,280
And he was like, Oh my God, I
didn't realise it.

855
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,760
He was like, I would not have
put money on the idea that

856
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,320
behaviour was making that much
of a difference to me mentally.

857
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,760
Yeah, Can I have a real
conversation for a minute?

858
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,440
Let's just really strip back.
And I feel, I feel like this

859
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,440
might be a conversation.
People might be like, oh, you

860
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,600
can't say that.
And I, it's something I've been

861
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,600
thinking about for a long time
as a teacher, right.

862
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,440
I feel like there are there's,
there's two prongs to my job.

863
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,280
Almost the first prong is
children who don't want to be in

864
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,120
school.
Yep.

865
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,200
And part of my job is trying to
inspire them to want to be in

866
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,800
the classroom, to want to enjoy
learning and learn stuff.

867
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:26,680
But that's how I see a part of
my job.

868
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,800
And that's really tiring.
It's really hard.

869
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,920
It's, it's day after day, just
being positive as possible.

870
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,000
Basically the role of a teacher
to try and convince someone to

871
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,480
learn in the 1st place.
OK, There's a lot of people who

872
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:42,880
say, yeah, of course that's part
of our job.

873
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,320
And there's a lot of people who
resent it and say, do you know

874
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:46,440
what?
I'm a teacher.

875
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,000
I should just be teaching stuff.
I'm not going to convince you to

876
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,160
want to.
You should want to learn

877
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,320
yourself.
And that that kind of annoys a

878
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,320
lot of people.
But I do think that's part of my

879
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,960
job.
But I've got to say, I agree, it

880
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,600
is exhausting.
What percentage of my time is

881
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,120
based on that first thing, which
is how much of my job is crowd

882
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,880
control, just getting someone to
exist, getting my class to exist

883
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,880
in the classroom in a way where
they can then learn If the

884
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,480
bigger percentage that is, the
harder it is because the other

885
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,280
side, the second part of my job
is teaching really well.

886
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,199
And now I'm talking about
literal pedagogy, getting

887
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:21,840
children from A to B.
Now the the balance between

888
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,080
those two things is so
important.

889
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:25,719
I think this is what this guy's
get alluding to.

890
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,679
You're, you can only run at 100%
as a teacher if the percentage

891
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,639
of your energy is above a
certain amount where you're just

892
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,440
doing crowd control and getting
the children to a place where

893
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,120
they literally can start to
learn.

894
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,920
That's going to burn you out and
really make you resentful about

895
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,600
the fact you can't spend all the
time you want to actually

896
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,880
teaching.
So my, I guess my question here

897
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,080
is what's an acceptable amount
like as, as a teacher?

898
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,480
Like if you're spending 50% of
your energy just simply getting

899
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,080
the children to to behave
themselves and sit down and get

900
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,560
ready to learn, clearly that's
going to end in burnout.

901
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,560
Clearly.
But you can't get to 0.

902
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,680
You can't expect to walk in and
be like, right, guys, here, I

903
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,720
get your books, Page 74.
We're all beautiful.

904
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:07,760
Let's crack on what's
acceptable.

905
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,920
Like what?
What is going to tip us over the

906
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,760
edge?
Like where are we at now?

907
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,360
Where should we be?
Here's what I think is

908
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,600
acceptable, Whatever you can
take really, I don't think

909
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:17,840
there's.
I don't think you could possibly

910
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,480
put a line or a number on that.
I think it's what I think it's

911
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,520
what you can take.
I think for that particular

912
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,200
teacher that I was speaking to,
his line was lower than someone

913
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,280
else's and his line was lower
than what that school could give

914
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:27,800
him.
He did.

915
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,040
He didn't work for him to work
there.

916
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,480
That is it.
Because what I don't, what I

917
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,080
wouldn't want to do is be like,
put this imaginary line in and

918
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,720
then where there are schools
where it's like, well, they're

919
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:36,280
over that line, OK.
No one works at them.

920
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,280
Yeah, like, yeah, there's got to
be someone's got to work there.

921
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,360
People's lines are different.
Like at the end of the day, I've

922
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,000
known, I've known people in the
past who work out like

923
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,200
behavioural units.
Yeah.

924
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,280
Where like literally every
single child in there is like a

925
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,240
really tricky behaviour.
And I'm like, Oh my God, like if

926
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,640
I have one child like that in my
class, I really struggle to like

927
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,920
want to do this job and stuff.
I don't think I'm cut out for

928
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,640
that line of work, but you are,
so that's OK.

929
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,160
So I think it is just where your
line is.

930
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,160
I think people should take like
take that.

931
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,320
Do you know what I mean?
Don't think oh, but everyone

932
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,280
else is here and I'm only here.
I'm now a bad teacher.

933
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,720
Do you think you're just here?
That's OK, Do.

934
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,680
You think in general that line
has shifted though?

935
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:12,480
We're talking about behaviour
getting worse over time.

936
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,520
Do you think in general that the
amount of time teachers are

937
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,480
spending now on behaviour issues
controlling a class compared to

938
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,040
literally actually teaching?
In general, do you think that

939
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,280
bars moved a little bit?
From talking to people and

940
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,120
seeing the odd bit of research
and stuff, I do think that is

941
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,320
true, yeah.
I don't personally, I feel like

942
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,600
I've seen that too much.
I think I've just had quite an

943
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,280
eclectic mix of classes over the
years.

944
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,840
I've had some incredibly behaved
classes, I've had some not very

945
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,040
well behaved classes.
I wouldn't say there's like a

946
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,640
clear line of correlation there
for my own personal experience,

947
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,320
but that's such a small sample.
On the macro on the.

948
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,640
Macro when we talked because we
talked to a lot of people, I do

949
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,320
think that's true.
I also think that is extremely

950
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,360
entwined with the culture of
parents and how they approach

951
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,160
school and how they treat
teachers and schools, which I

952
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,720
think I have seen definitely
change.

953
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:02,240
Personally, I think they're
extremely entwined.

954
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:03,960
I think that kids behave
differently because of that.

955
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,480
I guess the last thing I'm gonna
say on this is the reason it's

956
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,560
really been in the forefront my
mind, especially this year, is I

957
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,800
only realised how much of my
time is spent on crowd control

958
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,040
and behaviour management when I
did my gifted and talented maths

959
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,760
group with six mathematicians
hand picked by people who love

960
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,000
learning maths.
And honestly, that was the first

961
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,240
time in my career in so long
where I felt like 100% of my

962
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:32,040
efforts in that group was
delivering maths learning and

963
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,280
inspiring these children.
And I'm not going to lie, I

964
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,040
absolutely loved it.
Yeah.

965
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,560
It felt like it was what I was
on this earth to do.

966
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,440
So you're saying when
behavioural problems were

967
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,680
completely taken out the
equation, you enjoyed your job?

968
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,200
More like absolutely.
And I'm not afraid to say that

969
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,160
because I do think part of my
job is behaviour management.

970
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,400
I completely accept that and I
think it should be Yeah.

971
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,800
And I think I've got a certain
way with behaviour management

972
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,360
that works really well.
But I'm not gonna pretend that.

973
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,720
Do you know what?
When I just sat there and and

974
00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:00,320
was just were just inspiring
these kids with maths and.

975
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,000
And making their brain think in
ways it hasn't thought before.

976
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,760
And there is they were loving
finding patterns or spotting

977
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,320
things.
That was me in my element as a

978
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,440
teacher teaching and and that
that is a big problem.

979
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,560
I think currently is when too
much of your mind is on other

980
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,600
things than.
But that's OK because you know

981
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,680
what, you're allowed to like
different things in your job

982
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,360
more than other things.
They're all roles, they're all

983
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,000
parts of your job.
Because you would be quite happy

984
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,840
and quite confident to say I
don't like planning lessons

985
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,720
anywhere near as much as I like
delivering lessons.

986
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:29,240
Right?
OK.

987
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,200
I know they're both important
and it's the same for you.

988
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,560
You're saying I don't like
dealing with behavioural issues

989
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,720
as much as I like delivering
teaching.

990
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:37,960
Like I think that's OK to say.
And I can.

991
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,840
I can see why you're a little
bit nervous to say it because

992
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,400
it's, yeah.
When it's about the kids, people

993
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,600
are like don't how dare you.
Teachers should be selfless

994
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,280
every.
Single behaviour issue ever is

995
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,920
because of a reason that we can
explain and solve Yeah oh

996
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,200
listen, you know what maybe
maybe, but like it's still not

997
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:53,880
nice to.
Do I don't enjoy it that much?

998
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:55,440
Yeah, Yeah.
And other times I do.

999
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,040
And you know what?
And everyone's bar is different.

1000
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,080
Someone else will come in and
that'll be their favourite bit

1001
00:38:59,080 --> 00:38:59,680
of the job.
Yeah.

1002
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,320
And they don't really like
teaching maths.

1003
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,000
Yeah.
And you'll be like, mind blown.

1004
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:04,440
That's the best bit.
What do you mean?

1005
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,280
They're like, no, I'd much
rather have those eight kids who

1006
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,360
don't want to do anything
because I really get on with

1007
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:09,440
them and I can really connect
with.

1008
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,600
Them I still love making the
progression in that respect of

1009
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,960
all kids, but I think it's the
of the progression that I love.

1010
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:17,600
But I'm just not going to
pretend that that isn't my

1011
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,600
ultimate version of the job.
It just is.

1012
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,400
It just is.
And I think all of these things

1013
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,600
come into a big bowl.
And we're at a point now where

1014
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,440
we know retention is bad, we
know recruitment is bad.

1015
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,200
There are clearly lots of
teachers who want to leave

1016
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,040
because A, they are leaving.
Yeah.

1017
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,360
And B, if you work in a school,
I honestly tell you right now

1018
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,600
you quite list 5 names in your
head of teachers who've said to

1019
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,120
you this in my last year for the
same thing every year.

1020
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,320
I'm looking for a job.
So you're looking?

1021
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:40,240
Are you looking?
I'm looking.

1022
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:41,720
Yeah, I'm looking.
Yeah, of course.

1023
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:43,680
That's the thing.
So let's let's move on then.

1024
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,240
We, we, we.
The actual name of this episode

1025
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:48,880
is why so many teachers feel
trapped in this profession.

1026
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,640
OK, so we talked about the
reasons why they might want to

1027
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,000
get out.
What is trapping them then?

1028
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,280
Because weirdly enough, when we
sat and thought about the

1029
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,800
reasons why teachers say, oh,
I'm just trapped in this job,

1030
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,080
even though it seems like quite
a negative thing to say that

1031
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,240
you're trapped somewhere, it's
usually actually there are some

1032
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:05,080
pros hidden in here because
that's the point.

1033
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,240
The only reason you wouldn't
leave a job is because, well,

1034
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:09,560
there are pros and moving might
have more cons.

1035
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,600
So Hayden, what what are the
reasons then?

1036
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,360
Why?
Why do teachers feel trapped in

1037
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,680
teaching?
2B I'm gonna do 2.

1038
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,240
You did 2 earlier, so I get.
To one I'm gonna.

1039
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,120
Link them together, salary and
pension, because I think they're

1040
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,440
both money related.
But Hayden, we went on strike

1041
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,000
because our pay wasn't going up
and you just said all our pay is

1042
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,000
stagnating.
Yeah.

1043
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,560
And you know what?
It is stagnating.

1044
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,000
You can't.
You are allowed to.

1045
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,080
We're giving you permission
because we're the CEO's of this

1046
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,560
podcast.
So we're giving you permission.

1047
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,840
Told you you could do that.
Teach Repeatedly Episode 90

1048
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,800
something do not know them.
Let me give you a Spotify link

1049
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,240
because we're from Yorkshire, we
look after our teachers up here

1050
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:49,720
and we love our teachers.
So we're gonna share the Spotify

1051
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:51,720
link for Teach, Sleep, Repeat
and leave a review.

1052
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:53,160
I think we should do the rest of
the episode like that.

1053
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,880
And then there are people.
People take us really serious.

1054
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,760
I can't wait to see.
The drop off of retention, yeah.

1055
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,360
God, I've got to do the
Yorkshire voice again.

1056
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,520
They're doing again turn off
anyway better salary pension,

1057
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,760
right, Because you you can have
stagnating pay that is also not

1058
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,520
like the lowest pay possible
like they they can coexist.

1059
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,600
Like when the doctors went on
strike and everyone was like,

1060
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:13,680
they're earning so much.
Like yeah, yeah, but not yeah.

1061
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:16,480
They're earning more though they
were earning more, so it's like

1062
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,440
they have their pay stagnated at
the end of the day.

1063
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,960
OK, that is true.
But also, you can also look at a

1064
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,240
teacher's salary, and especially
when you're at our level, you're

1065
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:25,920
at the kind of other end of the
pay scale.

1066
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,880
Well, we're on you pay range,
let's be honest.

1067
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,280
With the upper pay range and
it's like, OK, the salary is not

1068
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,160
so bad, it's good, it's not so
bad, it's not as good as it was

1069
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,640
10 years ago, right?
And I kind of resent the fact

1070
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,400
that people 10 years ago for the
exact same job, if anything, it

1071
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,800
was a bit easier, got more money
than I did.

1072
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,840
That's a bit annoying.
And then the pensions are just,

1073
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,560
it's a very good pension, yeah,
isn't it?

1074
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,680
The pension is insanely good.
And again, that used to be

1075
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:47,560
better as well.
Exactly.

1076
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,080
But it's, it's still a really
good pension.

1077
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,640
And you know what, that's a huge
thing for people feeling trapped

1078
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,240
because I like, I want to leave,
but I have a mortgage, I have

1079
00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:58,920
bills.
I don't really want to live a

1080
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,920
risky life or I don't know what
I'm going to be getting paid.

1081
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,320
I know what I'm getting paid.
I live within my means right

1082
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,080
now.
And if I leave, I'm probably not

1083
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,600
going to get the exact same
salary right now and I'm

1084
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,880
probably not going to get as
good a pension deal as I as I do

1085
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,800
right now.
So I feel kind of trapped by

1086
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,160
that.
Yeah, that's what we mean.

1087
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,160
That's one example.
And and and link to that,

1088
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,880
another reason is having to re
climb the ladder.

1089
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,480
You know, we've done it already,
like teachers who are like 6-7,

1090
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,280
eight years in or more, they've
climbed the ladder.

1091
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,440
Maybe they've got to a situation
like ours where they're leading

1092
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,040
a subject.
Maybe they're leading a year

1093
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:30,400
group.
Maybe they're thinking, do you

1094
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,040
know what?
I'm at the point now I listen to

1095
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,400
the teach sleep episode on is
middle leadership ever worth it?

1096
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,000
And I know it's probably not,
but I'm going to do it anyway

1097
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,640
because it's the next thing in
my career and I'm climbing the

1098
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:38,720
ladder.
Damn, that's a good episode.

1099
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:40,160
Oh, that's a great.
Episode we should go and watch

1100
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,360
that one and share it with all
your friends.

1101
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,640
But the the idea of having to re
climb the ladder again is a

1102
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,400
little bit exhausting.
Do you know you've got to this

1103
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,560
point now where you're quite
good at your job?

1104
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,240
You know you're going you're
going to have to go somewhere

1105
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:55,240
else entry level.
You're going to have to go every

1106
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:56,800
year.
Maybe the progression's quicker.

1107
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,840
Maybe within five years instead
of 10 years you get to where you

1108
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:01,360
were.
It's still, you know, when

1109
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,880
you're in your 30s and 40s,
maybe you've got a young family,

1110
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,720
maybe you haven't.
Whatever it is, it's still

1111
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:08,040
another exhausting step to
retrain and do all of that.

1112
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,600
So I, I do think the salary it,
it's a big thing.

1113
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,400
Whenever I talk to teachers,
that's usually what they say.

1114
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,840
That is usually what they say.
So yeah, but I'm going to have

1115
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,000
to take a 10K pay cut.
Yeah, Do you know what, it's

1116
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,120
probably easier to do it earlier
on if you're, if you're all two

1117
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,440
years into your career and you
and you, you feel trapped and

1118
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,000
you're like, I can't.
And maybe one of the reasons is,

1119
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:29,400
well, I've put I've sunk three
years into it now.

1120
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,360
Like this is what I've done.
Everyone thinks I'm going to be

1121
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:32,920
doing it.
The public image, people look at

1122
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,160
me think I've failed.
I've only two years in, don't

1123
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,560
work.
Honestly, I think you just kind

1124
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:37,920
of need to.
You'd be more annoyed at

1125
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,640
yourself if you if you trudged
through another eight years,

1126
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,120
yeah, worked up the pay scale,
decided to live within your

1127
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:44,800
means of that pay scale.
Now you don't even like the

1128
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,320
doing the job anymore.
And then it's like.

1129
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:47,680
And you still felt the same way.
Yeah.

1130
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,280
And then then you then it like
you can really justify, OK, now

1131
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,120
I like really do feel trapped so
that I think the earlier on the

1132
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,760
more chance you got to like your
pay is lower anyway to maybe

1133
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:56,840
skip across to a different
career.

1134
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,360
It's that sunken cost fallacy,
isn't it?

1135
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,360
Yeah, it's definitely.
I've put three years in, so I

1136
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,840
better put another 8IN.
Think about it for a minute.

1137
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,440
Like, honestly, just think about
it.

1138
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,200
Yeah, you're the longer you go,
the harder it is to leave.

1139
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,400
And I'm, I don't want to sit
here and say, yeah, so leave the

1140
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,240
profession, guys, because that's
not what we're about.

1141
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:14,320
We spend a lot of time trying to
help teachers out.

1142
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,440
But if you literally know that's
what's going to happen.

1143
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:18,240
Don't pretend so.
Is that it, Dylan?

1144
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,400
So teachers feel trapped.
All about the money.

1145
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,880
I think, right, I'm not going to
pretend it's not a big thing.

1146
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,680
I think I think money is the
main thing, right.

1147
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:28,200
But you know, if you ask me, OK,
I will as a parent call on

1148
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:29,200
there.
I'm going to do 2 as well.

1149
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,080
There are two other big hitters.
There are two other massive

1150
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,000
hitters that people say I'm
going to start holidays.

1151
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:39,520
Holidays is huge, OK?
We as teachers, disclaimer do

1152
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,960
not get paid for our holidays.
We get paid 1265 hours while

1153
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,240
directed time with an
expectation do a bit more to

1154
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:49,080
fulfil the needs of the job
spread over 12 months.

1155
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,320
So it feels like we're getting
paid for nothing in August when

1156
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,880
we don't do any work in school.
Yeah, but it's just spreading

1157
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,680
out the cost of what we earned
on.

1158
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,120
Time Full time hours which are
condensed into 10 months.

1159
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,000
Exactly.
So don't.

1160
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,840
So when people say that, ignore
them.

1161
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,400
So when people say aren't the 13
weeks nice, just ignore them.

1162
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,160
Don't, don't, don't even bother
trying to tell them honestly,

1163
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,440
like because it's not an
equivalence, but what it is is

1164
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,920
extremely nice to know that you
have control over that time.

1165
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:17,720
You're not going to have to go
into work.

1166
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,360
Will you have to do some extra
work at some points across that?

1167
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,200
Yes.
Okay, sure, you can control when

1168
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,160
you do that.
It might mean doing longer hours

1169
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,120
in turn time, might be doing
some weekend jobs.

1170
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,280
Of course that's true.
But we do get 13 actual weeks

1171
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,400
off where you have control over
that time.

1172
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,040
And yeah, okay, holidays are
more expensive, etc.

1173
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,400
But if you have a young family
and they go to school, you're

1174
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:42,160
off with your kids, OK.
And also you, there is something

1175
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,600
nice about at the start of the
year knowing exactly when you'll

1176
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,880
be off and having control over
that.

1177
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,560
And, and it is a lot of time
off.

1178
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,160
You know, a lot of people work
long hours anyway in different

1179
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:53,600
jobs.
It's not a race to the bottom.

1180
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,440
So it is nice to know that,
yeah, we can work really hard in

1181
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:57,720
the time time get really
stressed.

1182
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,760
But you know, the longest in a
row that I work without a week

1183
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,480
off is 8 weeks.
Yeah.

1184
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:05,280
There's there's honestly, what
other job can you?

1185
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:06,640
Say, I know, I know.
And it is nice.

1186
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,680
You can't deny it when people
say to me, because I usually do

1187
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,120
have a bit of a like a sly tone,
13 weeks are nice.

1188
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:13,600
So aren't they?
Get off now.

1189
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,120
My response is yeah, yeah, it's
lovely.

1190
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,280
Yeah, it's really nice.
It's a really good perk of the.

1191
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:18,240
Job.
What's really nice about your

1192
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:19,360
job?
That you get paid 20 grand a

1193
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:20,760
year more than me.
That's nice, isn't it?

1194
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,920
They turn around and go, yeah,
it is cool.

1195
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,040
Well, let's end this
conversation then.

1196
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:25,360
It's just called a pro of the
job.

1197
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,000
It's a perk of the job.
Yeah, exactly, doesn't it?

1198
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,640
Doesn't define it as better than
yours.

1199
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,200
I know you can have an argument,
couldn't they?

1200
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,080
Your pension's better than mine.
It's like, OK, do we need to do

1201
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:32,680
this?
Really.

1202
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:34,160
Yeah.
What's the point of this?

1203
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,800
If you feel trapped in a job,
you feel trapped in a job like.

1204
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,200
And what do we want to be more
appealing, a quantity surveyor

1205
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,080
or a teacher or our children?
But at the minute a quantity

1206
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,200
surveyor is more appealing.
I always say quantity surveyors

1207
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,960
because like all my mates and I
know quantity surveyors and

1208
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,040
they're some of my best mates
and I've got nothing against

1209
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,040
them whatsoever.
But we just live in this such

1210
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,440
weird world where it's just
like, well, one's way more

1211
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,680
attractive than the other.
Why?

1212
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,080
That makes them equally
attractive.

1213
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,560
Or let's not pretend teaching is
this dream job.

1214
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:02,920
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1215
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,320
It's tough, It's tricky.
It's nice.

1216
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,360
It's got lots of prose, but lots
of job.

1217
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,760
Or you take a bit of a pay cut,
but it's a dreamy job.

1218
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,320
It's like, well, it's not.
Is it really though?

1219
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,880
There's some nice elements to
it, but there's but most like

1220
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,920
people want to leave.
Yeah, isn't that dreamy?

1221
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,280
I guess this leads onto the
other one.

1222
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,840
I was going to say, because I'm
stealing two in a row because

1223
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,800
like, dare you do what I did to
you is the fulfilment.

1224
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,200
It is the fulfilment.
And, and I've talked about this

1225
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,440
a number of times on the podcast
lately and it's I've clicked

1226
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,800
into reels, I've put it out
there because it's exactly how I

1227
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,760
feel.
The number one thing for me

1228
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,520
personally, holding me back from
just saying, OK, I'll quit is

1229
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,960
that fulfilment is that absolute
fulfilment I get every day by

1230
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,560
doing what I love doing, which
is teaching the children,

1231
00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:43,800
helping them.
And I say it all the time, but

1232
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,760
for me, it's important to be a
safe space for them.

1233
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,000
I just love.
I know that I could leave the

1234
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,240
job, someone else would come in
and do just as good a job of me

1235
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,200
that's not better.
I know that's probably the case,

1236
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:54,720
but you know what?
I don't have control over that.

1237
00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:58,160
And the nought point nought 1%
chance that someone comes in and

1238
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,760
just doesn't do that for the
children.

1239
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,560
It may eats me up inside.
You know that you can, because

1240
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,480
you are you.
Yeah, when I'm the I'm like, I

1241
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,280
know I can create this for them.
I know I can make them enjoy

1242
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,280
school.
I know I can be that person that

1243
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,720
they can come to and tell me
their problems.

1244
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,080
I know that I can be in charge
of making sure they learn maths

1245
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:14,960
that they need.
So what's making you feel

1246
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,200
trapped here?
Is it the?

1247
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,040
Is it the idea that if you
leave, you can't guarantee that

1248
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,960
the kids are going to be getting
that provision that you know

1249
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:23,760
you're not?
Or is it the idea that you might

1250
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,120
not get that fulfilment
somewhere?

1251
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:26,840
Else it's selfish.
It's selfish.

1252
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,400
I I talk about the fact, the
control over the kids, but I

1253
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,160
know that kids get a really good
deal.

1254
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:32,760
And everyone's called this.
That's quite unlikely.

1255
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,720
So that that's not that.
I think that's what I say to

1256
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:36,960
myself to to boost up my.
Oh, yeah.

1257
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,280
And also this as well.
Right.

1258
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,160
OK.
But the main thing is completely

1259
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,120
selfish.
Yeah.

1260
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,240
I love teaching and helping
children and making sure they

1261
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:46,800
make progress and are safe and
enjoy themselves.

1262
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,840
Yeah.
There's nothing I love more than

1263
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,440
that.
And I always say I feel lucky.

1264
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,040
That's my job, it's part of my
job.

1265
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,320
And I quit and that disappears
somehow.

1266
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,400
That's what I'm worried about.
That's what I would say.

1267
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,320
Someone said to me, do you feel
trapped in teaching?

1268
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,040
I'd be like, well, I don't think
I do, but if I had to say why

1269
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,320
I'm still teaching, that's the
number one probably that that is

1270
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,880
that is it because yeah, yeah,
everyone's got different,

1271
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,760
different things behind them.
Everyone's got different

1272
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,320
financial security.
Everyone's got different needs

1273
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:15,840
for the holidays, whether
they've got young children or

1274
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,400
not, etcetera.
Someone might actually not like

1275
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,000
the holidays because they want
cheap holidays.

1276
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,400
They've not got a family home.
Actually, I don't want that.

1277
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,160
So that's not holding me back.
I'd love to have holidays.

1278
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:25,920
I'd love to have fewer holidays
but be able to take them

1279
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,320
whenever but.
Actually, go on holiday, right?

1280
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,680
Yeah, yeah, Daddy.
So, so like all of these are

1281
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,040
caveated with it's personal.
Me personally, the fulfilment is

1282
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,000
by far on the way top and I
think what I'd be looking for is

1283
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,800
OK if I did make that jump.
How am I going to replace that?

1284
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:41,800
Can I take mine?
Yeah.

1285
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:43,440
And thank you by the way, that
was really good.

1286
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,080
That was really interesting.
It's part that as well.

1287
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,080
By the way, there's another
little thing that was always in

1288
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,800
my brain because you know we are
in that position.

1289
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,560
Someone said to us what was the
other day, oh, we got one for

1290
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,320
out because we are part time and
we do have a business where we

1291
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:54,440
generate income in a different
way.

1292
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,360
So there is that opportunity for
us maybe a bit more at our

1293
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,400
fingertips, but we're still here
and we still feel that feeling

1294
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:01,800
of trapped is why we're doing
this episode.

1295
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,920
You know, we, we try to speak
from the heart, like how we

1296
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,280
feel.
And for me, it's a bit of that

1297
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,480
fulfilment, like I'm worried I'm
not going to get that, but it's

1298
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,000
the weight.
I don't know, maybe it's my

1299
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,240
brain, but I just need every day
to be different.

1300
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,720
I need to have things to work
on.

1301
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:20,080
I like the fact that in
teaching, you're constantly

1302
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,640
working on new projects and that
project.

1303
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,040
And that sounds awful saying a
child's project, but it could be

1304
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,160
a literally a child like the
project could be, right?

1305
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:28,760
This kid doesn't really want to
learn this thing.

1306
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,640
What am I going to do?
Oh, maybe I'm going to try this

1307
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,000
strategy that worked for me for
a few years.

1308
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,360
I'm going to try that.
You're constantly reasoning and

1309
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,920
problem solving like a math and
thinking.

1310
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:42,000
And I'm really worried that if I
stop doing that, even if all the

1311
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,200
other things seem really good,
I'm yeah, but I'm going to get

1312
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:45,880
my I'm going to get my weekends
back.

1313
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:46,960
I'm going to get all this time
back.

1314
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,040
I'm not going to feel as
stressed.

1315
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:49,880
I'm not going to be annoyed at
all this top down pressure.

1316
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,880
I'm going to get paid better.
Maybe I even find a better paid

1317
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,040
job.
But if I go in every day and I

1318
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,520
and I feel bored, yeah, which I
don't feel when I'm teaching.

1319
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,000
I never feel bored at school.
I tell you that like the days,

1320
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,840
go quick.
Doesn't it when you're in the

1321
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,400
lesson is honestly right being
real now and I'd love to know

1322
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,240
other people think maybe they're
different to us 99% the

1323
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:11,720
teachers.
I I don't even pace is like

1324
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:13,600
ingrained in me now.
I'm not looking at the clock.

1325
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,760
I'm just like, I kind of know
where it's going because it goes

1326
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,160
like that.
Yeah, it's just it's so fun and

1327
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,680
enjoyable, but because we're
working hard.

1328
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,520
If anything, I want more time.
Yeah, I always want my lessons

1329
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,480
to be 10 minutes longer.
I'm always like, oh, I just need

1330
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,080
another 5-10 minutes.
Like then whatever job would you

1331
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:29,640
do that?
Oh, I just want this meeting to

1332
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,040
go.
I just want to make 5% more for

1333
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,200
the shareholders.
I just really want it to have a

1334
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:35,480
better car.
Next year.

1335
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,360
Like, no, no one's doing that.
Yeah, but that's that's the

1336
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,240
thing for me is I do every day
is every day is definitely going

1337
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:44,880
to be unique in school even
every year to the extent because

1338
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,520
you might get changed year
groups like it's a whole new

1339
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,280
job.
And do you do you?

1340
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:49,600
Yeah, go on.
Yeah, I'm just worried.

1341
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,240
I'm worried that if I'm trapped
by that, I mean, because it

1342
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:53,920
stops me from taking maybe
taking that plunge.

1343
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,600
I mean, like, yeah, whatever,
I'm going to go go try something

1344
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,000
else.
In that do you?

1345
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,240
So you're talking about the
you're kind of scared of losing

1346
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:02,920
what you've got, you know, idea
of oh, this is working really

1347
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:03,640
well for me.
I've done it.

1348
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,920
Is do you equally like do you
have a bit of a fear of the

1349
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,960
unknown?
Like, yeah, OK, you don't lose

1350
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,280
what you've got, but do you also
worry is the other option even

1351
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:13,760
any good?
I guess that's probably what

1352
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,160
that is really isn't it is a
fear because because I'm, I'm

1353
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:21,440
scared that I'll go into any
other style of life and the lack

1354
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,320
of that uniqueness of every day
is actually going to, is going

1355
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,480
to be worse than having it, even
with all of the cons of

1356
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,040
teaching.
So, yeah, I'm scared because I

1357
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,440
just don't know what it's going
to be like.

1358
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,960
I could, I could write quit
tomorrow and walk into another

1359
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,720
job and within a month be like,
oh God, I love this.

1360
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:37,520
This is great.
Like there's still opportunities

1361
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,640
to solve problems every day.
I'm a project manager now.

1362
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,160
Like I'm sure there are loads of
jobs where those skills are

1363
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,000
transferable and that every day
is different, but it is scary.

1364
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,280
Fear of the unknown is a big
thing.

1365
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,920
I don't think we should be
afraid to talk about that like.

1366
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,320
A lot of, a lot of comments
we've seen lately when I, when I

1367
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,760
put my kind of heart on the
sleeve like you've just done now

1368
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,400
and we've both done of like
being worried about leaving.

1369
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,840
It's been nice to see quite a
few comments from people saying

1370
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:02,080
there are jobs out there where
you still get this fulfilment,

1371
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,600
where you still get this, you
still get that because for

1372
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,120
whatever reason, don't let that
be the reason you're not taking

1373
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,320
the jump or trying something.
And I think what I would say

1374
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,920
here is the cyclical nature of
teaching that there's a new year

1375
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,600
every September.
If you can afford a year, if you

1376
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,240
do that Pit pony, we talked
about it before.

1377
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:21,000
If you search pit pony, it
sounds like a really obscure

1378
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,840
thing by just saying pit pony.
But what it basically is, is

1379
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,480
it's going through your finances
and actually calculating what

1380
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,160
your minimum threshold for
income is.

1381
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,760
So actually saying, OK, what
adding up exactly what goes out,

1382
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,920
adding up exactly what comes in,
seeing what the difference is

1383
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,120
for disposable income that you
need.

1384
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,120
And it's often quite lower than
people think.

1385
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,360
And working that out means that,
OK, cool, if I've worked it out

1386
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,280
and I then I know I can take a
salary job for one year at 25 K,

1387
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:50,360
it's a big pay cut.
But you know what, I've worked

1388
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:51,680
it out.
I'll be OK for a year.

1389
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,560
I'll try it because it's in
something I really want to try.

1390
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:56,560
I might not like it.
I'll try and get another job of

1391
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,640
teaching afterwards.
I might absolutely love it and

1392
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,120
I'll be able to progress up
through there.

1393
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,720
It's probably worth doing
something like that.

1394
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:08,200
So right, that is such a pro for
if you're feeling trapped for

1395
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:09,680
convincing someone to take the
plunge, isn't it?

1396
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,600
Teaching is great.
It's going to keep existing.

1397
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,960
I promise you it's going to keep
existing.

1398
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,640
Those schools are still like
people that the recruitment,

1399
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,200
like it's not great right now.
There's probably going to be

1400
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,080
jobs out there.
You know, you can always go back

1401
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:22,960
into it.
You're so right.

1402
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,280
It's so true.
There's one more.

1403
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,640
I think we kind of touched on
it, but I want to make it anyway

1404
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:28,920
because we're at this point
down.

1405
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,160
It's what you're good at.
Yeah, it's a thing, isn't it?

1406
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:33,680
Like you feel good because
you're good at it.

1407
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,960
Yeah, that's it.
I trained for three years.

1408
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:37,520
Well, I didn't.
I trained for one year, but most

1409
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,280
people trained for three years.
PGC or to do it?

1410
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,760
I did a PGC.
But is what you're good at?

1411
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,440
I feel like I'm good at it and I
did it after one or two years.

1412
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,520
I felt like I was pretty good at
teaching and that made me feel

1413
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,360
good, made me feel proud of
myself.

1414
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,000
It made some people in my family
proud, it made people in my

1415
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,640
friendship, so I was proud and
that feels good.

1416
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,160
So knowing that you're good at
something, you've got a very

1417
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,160
specialised skill set, I don't
think, I think a lot of people

1418
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,120
think that they could just walk
in and teach in primary school.

1419
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:05,920
I like, I reckon loads people
that I know think.

1420
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,880
Even nice people who just like
that, they're not even being

1421
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,680
horrible, they just think that's
an easy DOS job.

1422
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,160
Yeah, honestly, it's one of
those jobs where I'm like, it is

1423
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,680
so convoluted and complicated to
actually the knowledge is what

1424
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,960
they probably think of.
Is what a black what a black cab

1425
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,080
driver has in London, Yeah.
The knowledge.

1426
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:22,880
The knowledge.
But it's true, they quit, right?

1427
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:24,640
We talk about transferable
skills.

1428
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,400
As a teacher, there are
obviously some skills.

1429
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:27,640
Drive.
Yeah, exactly.

1430
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:28,960
Literally.
There are obviously some skills

1431
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,440
that are transferable, right?
And if you're a teacher going

1432
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,600
for a job in a different
business, that business owner

1433
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,120
will be like, well, they taught
for 10 years.

1434
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,320
They're definitely, they've got,
they understand the importance

1435
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,080
of organisation, you know,
controlling a group, running a

1436
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:41,560
meeting, all that kind of thing.
Yeah.

1437
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,360
Ability.
But, but there's not many jobs

1438
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,680
that directly transfer, like if
you're a black cab driver with

1439
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,200
the knowledge, right.
But Oh well, I can memorise

1440
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:50,680
things like yeah, they call it
transferable.

1441
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,760
You're never going to find a job
where you use the knowledge

1442
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:53,800
again.
Yeah, I mean.

1443
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:56,280
I know all the roads in London.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1444
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,000
OK, we've got Google Maps in
this office.

1445
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:00,600
So as a teacher you're like, I'm
really good at this.

1446
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,560
I'm so good at curating an
English curriculum, then

1447
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,920
delivering it and I'm learning
how to develop my maths.

1448
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,680
And over the 10 years I got
really good at, and I know the

1449
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,240
progression between year
three-year 4, Year 5, those

1450
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:11,640
really specific things that
you're really good at are only

1451
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:13,640
good in teaching and you know.
What's really annoying those

1452
00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:16,320
there are jobs out there
specifically of that thing where

1453
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,120
it's like you can create
resources, but they are

1454
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,120
generally quite a big jump down
in pay.

1455
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,320
And then it goes full circle
back to your first point re

1456
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,280
climbing the ladder.
You know, if you want to take

1457
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:26,440
that pay cut, yeah, I love doing
this.

1458
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,840
But you're back down to like
step one and you feel like I've

1459
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,040
invested 10 years climbing up
this ladder, getting to this

1460
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:32,960
point.
I'm on 45 K or whatever.

1461
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:34,960
Yeah.
So yeah, there's loads of

1462
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:36,240
reasons I think teachers feel
trapped.

1463
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,280
Right, let's round it off with
like we always like to do.

1464
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:41,320
So what should someone who feels
trapped do?

1465
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:43,520
We kind of touched upon it there
a little bit.

1466
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,680
I think what you have to do if
you genuinely feel trapped in

1467
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:48,560
teaching it.
And what I mean is I'm going to

1468
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,360
define it really clearly.
If you want to leave teaching,

1469
00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:53,800
OK, so if you don't want to
leave teaching, but you're like,

1470
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,120
oh, I test the water somewhere
else, but it's not really

1471
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:57,640
driving you.
It's not it's not in the

1472
00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:59,960
forefront of your brain.
You're still enjoying teaching a

1473
00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:01,880
lot.
It's a great job for many

1474
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,080
reasons, like we said.
And if these still outweigh the

1475
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:06,200
cons of moving, carry on
teaching and.

1476
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:08,360
Enjoy it and do a side hustle
those people.

1477
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,680
Genuinely if you think you enjoy
a side hustle.

1478
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,800
Try something out exactly and
that works for us.

1479
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,440
But OK, if you're actually
feeling trapped, you actually

1480
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,280
want to get out of teaching, OK.
But all of the things we just

1481
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,320
said, it's just too much for me
to let go of.

1482
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:26,960
What my advice to you would be
is get on top of your finances

1483
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,120
exactly.
Unfortunately, the answer might

1484
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,000
be you can't afford to take the
jump.

1485
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,880
Yeah, OK.
That honestly, that is, that is

1486
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,880
genuinely the answer.
And what you should do in that

1487
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,040
case is you should listen to all
our episodes where we give loads

1488
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,400
of actionable advice of what you
can do to try and reduce that

1489
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,840
workload, to try and think, oh,
I want to leave For these

1490
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:44,960
reasons, but the salary's good.
Well, OK, how can you reduce

1491
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,960
your workload then?
Yeah, how can you make it more

1492
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:47,960
manageable?
Enjoy the job again.

1493
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:49,280
Yeah, exactly how can you do
make?

1494
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:50,600
The pros that way, the cons,
basically.

1495
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,360
Exactly that.
But if you look at what your

1496
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,920
bottom line is, what you can
afford to jump to, if you get a

1497
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,600
number in your head, you can
then actually start looking.

1498
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,200
There's a lot of people I've
said I'm looking for another job

1499
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,080
and I said to them, uncle, what
you're looking for, what's your

1500
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:06,800
threshold?
What's your salary you'd go to?

1501
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,320
And they say, I don't know
really.

1502
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,400
I was like, well, you're not
really looking there, are you?

1503
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,480
You're browsing and there's a
difference there.

1504
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:14,440
You're just seeing what's out
there.

1505
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,240
Have a really clear plan, okay.
Know the salary you're willing

1506
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:21,800
to dip to to the pound coin
because you've run the numbers

1507
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:23,360
and you've talked to whether
you're with at home, whether

1508
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,600
it's yourself or with a family.
Know the kind of field you want

1509
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,840
to go into.
Do a little bit in your free

1510
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,480
time extra to gain experience.
Reach out to these people, say

1511
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,800
to them, look, can I do a course
as well?

1512
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:40,160
My friend used to be an estate
agent for years, did a course

1513
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,000
after hours.
He had a child.

1514
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,840
When the child went to bed, he'd
carry on doing the call.

1515
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:48,080
Worked really hard extra on top.
It's not easy, but now he's got

1516
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:52,880
a job working as like an Amazon
cloud engineer, doing a job for

1517
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,680
a company much, much better
paying conditions than he was

1518
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:57,160
on.
Yeah, and doing something he

1519
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,280
enjoys doing way more.
Win, win, win, win, win, win.

1520
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:00,480
But.
Before that, he actually was

1521
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:01,200
trapped.
Yes.

1522
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,800
He was because his state agent
job paid well and he lived in

1523
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,160
his means.
He bought a house that lived

1524
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,560
that worked with his pay.
I know the guy as well, not

1525
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,720
making up.
And it's like, and we both said

1526
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,680
didn't we were like, we were
like, hats off to you.

1527
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,200
Yeah, really proud.
That is so that is so good is

1528
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,360
exactly what we talked about,
because you're right.

1529
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,040
My only point here was going to
be is to be honest with

1530
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:21,560
yourself.
Seriously, like a lot of people

1531
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:23,880
that say I'm looking and when I
say what you looked at, they

1532
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,040
haven't looked at anything.
It's like you're not at, you're

1533
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,400
saying to me you're looking as
kind of like a virtue signalling

1534
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:30,320
kind of thing.
And next.

1535
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:31,760
Year you'll be and next year
you'll be your last.

1536
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:32,840
Year and next year, you'll be
your last.

1537
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:34,680
Year like, you know what, maybe
you just want me to have a

1538
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:36,960
little bit of like pity and like
help you through this.

1539
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:38,560
And it's like, OK, maybe that's
what you want, but if you

1540
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:41,240
really, really mean it, like you
seriously feel trapped.

1541
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,840
This job is getting you down.
Like actually look, do

1542
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,720
everything Dylan just said.
And also I'd just add to that as

1543
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,960
well.
Sit down, write down the pros

1544
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,320
and cons, really make sure
that's how you feel because you

1545
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:54,080
might think you feel that way.
You might have just you might

1546
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:55,480
just be tired and had a
stressful week.

1547
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,000
Come back to it the next day.
Come back to it a week later.

1548
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,720
Come back to it a month later.
Make sure it all still makes

1549
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,960
empirical.
Sense and because sometimes even

1550
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:04,600
right now the pros and cons
allows you to get past that

1551
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,400
emotional part of your brain
because you might write it down

1552
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,600
and realise there's 12 pros for
you and only three cons and

1553
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:11,880
actually all of those pros
massively out where those cons

1554
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:12,960
and.
The cons were just on your mind

1555
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:13,960
at the time.
Just on your mind and you

1556
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,280
realised, oh, actually all jobs
have cons and I'm actually all

1557
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,440
right with this and that thought
process and you're in a better

1558
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:21,120
place now.
Maybe it might be the other way

1559
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:22,200
around.
And then you go back to what

1560
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:23,880
Dylan said.
So to summarise, I suppose what

1561
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:29,680
we're saying here is if you feel
trapped as a teacher, sometimes

1562
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,360
you're not trapped.
You just want to someone to

1563
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,840
understand that it's really hard
in some aspects, but you know

1564
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:36,520
what, it's still the job for you
crack on.

1565
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,440
That's not, that's a feeling
that feels like you're trapped.

1566
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,480
But really, if you actually sit
down and look for it, it's where

1567
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:45,320
you want to be.
It's just that you're looking

1568
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,480
just tough.
There is another set of people

1569
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,360
where they really are trapped,
and these are the actual steps

1570
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:51,840
you can hopefully take to try
and help that.

1571
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:54,120
Yeah, brilliant.
Yeah, enjoy that.

1572
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:55,680
Same.
I think that was really nice to

1573
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:57,160
talk about because do you know
what?

1574
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:58,920
Like I said, we want to be
honest.

1575
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,720
This is something that I've
spoken to multiple teachers

1576
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:02,960
about.
This is the thing that I think

1577
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,040
this is a conversation where
every teacher would have had it,

1578
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,040
whether it's themselves feeling
trapped or a colleague feeling

1579
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,120
trapped.
So I love these conversations

1580
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:11,320
where we just, you know, yeah,
yeah.

1581
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,440
It's not just you.
You feel trapped.

1582
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:14,800
It's not just you.
It's normal.

1583
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,280
It's completely normal to feel
that way.

1584
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,040
Brilliant.
Thank you Dylan, I enjoyed that

1585
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,240
chat a lot.
Now where can people find?

1586
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,160
Us yeah, as an Instagram at
teach people that's the that's

1587
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,520
the app brilliant at teach sleep
repeat podcast on Instagram.

1588
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,000
You can also find us on TikTok
now I'll link everything down

1589
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,400
below in the episode
description.

1590
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,200
A rating is really helpful and
do you know what helps us more

1591
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,840
than anything?
Sharing this with your WhatsApp

1592
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,080
teacher group or someone who you
think might find it useful.

1593
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:43,960
Guys, thanks so much for
listening if you got this far.

1594
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:47,080
You're a retention legend
because that's how wagger on

1595
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:48,920
Amazon, right?
Game ending it I.

1596
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:50,760
Started it.
You need to go into radio.

1597
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,800
Market, I think I will see you
next time.

1598
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:54,560
See you.