Ep 86: Workplace Bullying, Toxic SLT & Teacher Martyrs: Omar Akbar (The Unofficial Teacher's Manual)

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Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teach the

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
And you might be thinking, where

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are they?
Where are they in this podcast,

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which is for this thing too?
We're not here.

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No video this week.
The reason is we've got a guest,

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as you probably told already
from the name of this podcast.

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I'm sorry about the bad grammar
there, Hayden.

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I'm feeling a bit rough.
I don't like you tell.

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I remember last time you said
should I mention how I feel

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rough?
And I went no, Hayden, nobody

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cares.
Nobody cares because.

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It's the 54th time you felt
rough, but it is one of the very

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rare occasions I feel a bit
rough.

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Well, it's good job we've got an
audio only episode where we can

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really hear that chesty little
voice you've got going on.

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Are you OK, honey?
I'm all right.

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At least you can't see me
because I feel like I look

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rough.
I just don't feel great.

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My my son had a chest infection.
My son.

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That sounds so weird, I don't
know why.

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Oh really?
I thought we always say Rory.

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Oh, my son, my son, the the
person who is my son had a chest

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infection.
That was the first time he got

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really poorly.
It was horrible.

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It's not nice at all.
But I'm wondering if I've got

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like the dregs of his cold and
cough.

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I don't know.
But I just don't feel very good.

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So that's a nice positive start
to this episode, isn't it?

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Well, I mean, let's make it more
positive, should we?

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Despite not feeling good right
now.

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How was your week at school?
It was.

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All right, it was good.
We went swimming and anyone

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who's taken their class swimming
I'm sure knows it's an excellent

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thing to do.
And we always bang on about this

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in the podcast.
Sound like a broken record.

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When we did cooking, I was like,
we did cooking because as a

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teacher, you love these things
with your.

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They don't get a chance to do
sometimes.

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So we went swimming with the
children, hopped on a coach.

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They absolutely loved the coach.
We went into the swimming pool

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and they start like, judging
people, like just putting them

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into groups basically.
Yeah.

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The ones who can't swim stay in
the small pool and just practise

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moving in the water, literally.
And then the rest of them go up

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into the big pool and split off
there.

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And I just realised watching,
there are at least two children

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who I swear looked like they'd
never been in a pool before.

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Oh, really?
Like, they were.

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They were so often with such
trepidation just walking in.

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Yeah.
And you know, like, sometimes

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walking down, especially into
the shallow part, there's like 2

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beams either side that quite far
out.

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You're just meant to like, use
one hand to go down.

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Yeah.
And one of my kids was just

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reaching as far as they possibly
could, stretching out just, they

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could hold on to both.
Yeah.

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And tiptoeing down the most
shallow pool.

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And I was like, oh, have you
I've.

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Never been.
Swimming and we live in the

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coast.
It could be terrifying.

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You know, maybe they've only
been like, once or twice and

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with their parents and like the
step of, oh, my family aren't

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here.
People who I need to look after

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me.
They're not even here with me.

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Yeah.
Got done myself so it's good

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though I think it's I think it's
hang on something they should

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do.
Did they have fun?

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They had so much.
OK, So what?

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How do you record this in books?
There's no recording.

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We actually, they actually got
out of the water and they were

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soaking wet.
And I said, oh, not allowed to

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be wet.
No.

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And there were just like a few
of them.

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Like what?
Sorry, you're not allowed to be

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wet, guys, This is school time.
You can't come out dripping wet.

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Actually, yeah, we're just like.
But we, but we just put it as,

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I'm joking, the ultimate trick
on them because we're on the way

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home, much like you said.
It was a nice one there.

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Left them there.
No, we're on the way back and we

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returned to school with about
half an hour left.

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Right.
So the kids were asking what

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we're going to.
Do I know what's going?

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On I'm the coach though, and I
said, and we're going to do what

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we're going to do.
And I was with my teaching

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assistants.
Oh, I don't know, Mr. Price,

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what what are we going to do
when we get back?

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I just started.
I said, well, we've got a lesson

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to do when we get back.
We've got to get the books out.

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We've got half an hour.
We've got to get a lesson done.

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And they weren't even, they
didn't even go no, stop it.

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They all just were really sad.
They were just like, dejected.

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Doesn't that just say something?
I know the expectations, know

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that that just absolutely worked
to the bone, yeah.

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Exactly.
And it's like you can't just do

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one thing.
No, it's impossible.

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It's impossible.
And I was like, I'm joking.

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Obviously we got back and we
just watched someone read a

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story out loud on YouTube and
they just sat down and they.

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You couldn't even bother to read
a story.

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You know it's a pre recording of
you on YouTube reading the

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story.
I read this story once and every

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year you just watch me read
this.

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Story swimming's cool though.
Stuff like that.

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You know, we talked about those
times on this podcast so many

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times it's almost getting boring
to hear.

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But kids, we want them to have
fun.

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Kids go to school to enjoy
themselves and enjoy subjects,

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and swimming is a subject.
Yeah, absolutely so.

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Yeah.
So that was really good.

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How about you?
Yeah, I had a really nice week

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one had one lovely highlight,
one of those heartwarming

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moments where you're like, oh, I
do just love being with these

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kids, though.
I do just love interacting with

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them and teaching them and just
being part of their life.

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So I had a boy who left last
year not.

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With you now though.
Not with me now.

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Yeah, the boy left last year.
I was really fond of someone you

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were really fond of, actually.
Obviously I can't say the

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nameless, but it was someone you
really got on my way when you

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taught them back and forth.
And anyway, his sister's at our

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school when she came up to me a
few weeks ago and had had a

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letter from him and she said I
got a letter for you from my

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bro.
And I was like, OK.

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And it was quite funny.
It was a silly letter, but it

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was also quite sweet and
obviously wanted to reply.

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So I wrote a letter back back to
him.

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And I heard from my deputy head
yesterday, the day before

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yesterday.
Sorry, that's the the parent of

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this a child came up to him
after school and said he has

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framed this letter and put on
his wall and he was having a

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really tough week last week at
the secondary school and it's

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just perked him up and
highlighted, you know, made a

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highlight of his week and he's
really happy now and he's so

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pleased that Mister Stevens
wrote back.

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So thank you.
And I was like, oh man, do you

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know what that those are the
moments I forget sometimes you

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get so caught into the the daily
life of of plan teach Mark.

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Oh no, that's already taken more
hours than I'm paid for.

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Getting annoyed by that and just
being like the slog, slog, slog.

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Actually, just those little
moments for those kids and I are

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just so special and they and
they make it worth it.

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So I had a really nice moment.
Oh, sweet.

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And then you have to go Marty
books they.

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Have to go mark the books 2.
Hours.

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At home because I spent too long
writing a letter.

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Oh, well, that's what that's
such the sad thing about this

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situation is all the nice stuff
gets eaten up.

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We talked about it before, Like
doing a club.

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Yeah.
I love doing a club.

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Yeah.
I love doing a club where it's

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like my interests and the kids
shared interests and we get

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together and we we play some
chess or something.

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We do a board game or we watch
the TV or whatever it is in the

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club.
And I'm just like, I can't do

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that now because I've, because I
want to go home.

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And do you know what?
I've got to choose between doing

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that club or marking your book,
which you won't look at or care

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about.
Yeah.

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And the policy and as you've got
to do that, well, I think

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spending.
Time with your family because

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it's like you could do both but
you would then personally lose

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out and you just can't do all
the time.

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No so no anyway.
Frustrating.

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Well, we are going to have a
chat with Omar, the unofficial

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teachers manual author.
Lots of posts on Twitter.

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Very real guy.
When we spoke a lot in the past

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over the last few weeks about
how we say similar things, he's

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very cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Our core base and his core base
I think are after the same

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thing, which is just teachers
being realistic.

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We're going to get into that
chat in a second, but I do have

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one story I want to to tell.
We've got a little story on the

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Instagram, a little plug for the
Instagram now at Teach to repeat

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podcast.
Do follow us, do send us

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messages.
I talk to loads of you now.

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So thank you.
If you have message me about the

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podcast or anything I really
appreciate.

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It please do I can stop making
fake accounts chatting to Dylan

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so he feels good it's.
Real now he doesn't see any of

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it.
It's fine.

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It's just me you're trying to
And yeah, so we have someone

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again spoken to frequently over
the years listening to the

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podcast.
They were listening to an older

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one catching up right.
And they, they said I've got a

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story I need to tell you.
It was and I was like, OK, no

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problem.
And little bit of AI.

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Guess it's a disclaimer to an
extent.

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It's a bit of dark humour coming
up.

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But this person has given me the
green light.

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They found it was funny.
They found it funny.

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Anyway, yeah, so I'm going to
read out now.

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I've listened to an older
episode and you mentioned school

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trips.
One I think we did near the

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start.
Sure, school trips.

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And it reminded me of a funny
story that happened to my son.

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He was in year 1, so 5 years old
when my husband's Nana packed

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passed away.
My son had to miss a school trip

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because of the funeral fell on
the same day.

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Yeah, sure.
When my son came back to the

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class, we're writing about the
trip.

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So my son's TA made-up a
completely different learning

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objective so that he could write
about the funeral.

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Oh, crikey.
OK.

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It was complete with stick
figures of the coffin and the

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heart.
Oh God.

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I have a dark sense of humour so
I couldn't help but laugh when I

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read it a few months later.
When you see his book.

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Right.
My in laws thought it was funny

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and applauded the initiative of
the TA.

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This is why it was to me it was
just so.

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It's already funny the fact
they're all right about our

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school trip to the zoo.
Obviously man, obviously the

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teacher.
I've just done this with stick

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figures and he's right about it.
The learning objective written

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in the book when he saw the
books months later.

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Hello, I can describe my Nana
Pat's funeral.

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Oh no.
Oh God, Do you reckon he wrote

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that or do you reckon the TA
that?

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Was the TA given the great
objective today?

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It's one of those things where
I'm like, objectively, it's

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probably not actually that bad.
Like they're probably trying to

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be sweet and be like, yes, it's
a real experience.

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Kids should experience real
things.

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But I don't think I would ever
have the balls to say to a kid,

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just write about the.
Funeral and everyone else is

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writing about that amazing
museum trip they went on.

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00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,480
You write about the funeral.
I don't know that's, that's

229
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,640
funny.
I'm glad she had a I'll tell you

230
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,680
what, there are some parents
that probably probably could

231
00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:49,840
have taken that a different way.
So I'm glad you had a sense of

232
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,360
humour of it.
Yeah, and you know, it was.

233
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,680
He enjoyed it.
If he's fine and he wrote about

234
00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:54,840
it, it.
Was just the idea of months

235
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,040
later when the books get sent
home.

236
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,040
Let's have a flick through what
you've been doing about Son.

237
00:08:58,400 --> 00:08:59,440
Oh the pyramids.
Nice.

238
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,440
Nana Patt's funeral.
Yeah.

239
00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:03,560
Did everyone do a bit of writing
on this or?

240
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,000
I don't think I remember writing
into the school, actually.

241
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,200
I don't think that was the
school trip, just to the

242
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,000
actually children sat in the
back of the procedure.

243
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,200
Oh my God, yeah.
Oh, that's funny.

244
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,400
So that made me laugh.
Yeah, well, I can see why you

245
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:17,560
enjoy people writing in.
Yeah.

246
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,320
Please do, please write them if
anything you've got.

247
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,800
And the darker the humour the
better usually, right Hayden?

248
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,800
Should we wrap this up?
Not this whole episode.

249
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:27,560
Obviously, let's get into our
chat, shall we?

250
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:31,880
Right, so I'm going to be honest
with you guys.

251
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,440
I am like a kid at Christmas.
OK, Hayden, because we have with

252
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,600
us right now Omar.
Firstly, Omar, thank you so much

253
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,120
for joining us on a school
night.

254
00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:39,560
Right.
You're absolutely.

255
00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:42,240
You're very welcome. 100% I'm
looking forward to.

256
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,240
It it's going to be so good.
So for anyone listening out

257
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,800
there, any of our listeners,
Omar, someone you absolutely

258
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,720
have to be following
specifically on Twitter or X,

259
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,280
but you do post on Instagram as
well.

260
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,800
Some of your posts, we're going
to come on to them in a second.

261
00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,480
But just so people know who
we're talking to today, Omar,

262
00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,520
you are the host of the
Unofficial Teacher Manual

263
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,760
podcast.
I absolutely love it because

264
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,120
unlike our podcast where we just
kind of rant for an hour, it's

265
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,280
very precise, 10 to 15 minute.
It helps you understand

266
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,280
something.
You get 5 points really quickly.

267
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,080
For me, it's like the perfect
commute to work.

268
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,920
Listen to Boost your teaching.
So how long have you been doing

269
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:17,400
that for?
Oh.

270
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,280
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.

271
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,520
That's exactly what I was aiming
for when I did it.

272
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,600
So it's, it's nice to hear that
it's been about two years now.

273
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:29,360
Yeah, 2022 is when I started and
a lot of them it, it started

274
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,080
with just me.
So that was like a solo podcast

275
00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,640
and I kept it to 10 minutes
because I thought, you know,

276
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,040
just for the reasons that you
said.

277
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,400
And then I gradually started
getting guests on.

278
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,840
So about head teachers on other
authors as as well.

279
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:42,680
So yeah, it's, it's going pretty
well.

280
00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:46,600
I think it's, it's always hard
to find a basis for comparison

281
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,440
with your podcast.
You know what I mean?

282
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,560
You get the we all, we we get
the numbers through and you

283
00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:53,880
know, kind of how many listens
you're having, but you're never

284
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,240
quite sure what to compare it
to.

285
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,920
But to be honest, I like doing
it and I'll, I'm not overly

286
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,880
bothered about the obviously you
want people to listen to it, but

287
00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,680
I'm not going to obsess over
that, you know?

288
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,760
I think that's really important
with podcasts specifically,

289
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,160
we've seen a lot during our time
kind of come in, go out and

290
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,200
people aren't really in for it.
You've got to enjoy doing it.

291
00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,480
And you know, even if we, we
always say, me and Hayden, we

292
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,880
always say if we get one message
from someone saying, oh, I

293
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,360
listen to that podcast and now
my life's improved because of

294
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:23,400
this.
Cool.

295
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,600
That was worth it immediately.
So much joy, doesn't it?

296
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,520
You sit over the moon that day?
Yeah, no.

297
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,800
It's amazing.
Well, as well as the podcast,

298
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,560
you're an author.
You've written at least three

299
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:34,520
books that I know of.
You've got the Unofficial

300
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,320
Teacher's Manual, the original,
I think back in 2017, you wrote

301
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:38,960
that one.
You've got Teaching for

302
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,160
Realists, which as soon as I saw
that title, I was like, that's a

303
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,480
book I need to read.
And also building relationships

304
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,920
in school.
So how's the authorship journey

305
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:48,080
gone for you?
How did you find that?

306
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,400
Was it something come naturally
to you?

307
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:50,840
Was it something you always
wanted to do?

308
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,680
Right.
So what happened was in, so

309
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:57,160
there's 2017 when my first book
was written.

310
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,680
So in the years or the year, I
would say kind of preceding that

311
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,760
you, you notice that there's a
lot of things that they don't

312
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,080
teach you on the PGC.
And no disrespect to the PGC

313
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,040
because they teach you a lot of
useful things too.

314
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,640
And you see teachers making
these mistakes, not just as

315
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,120
trainees, but in the first few
years just making mistakes

316
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,520
which, and these are not
mistakes which are in the

317
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,280
classroom.
So I'm not talking about the

318
00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,120
principles of Rosenchein AFL or
anything like that.

319
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,240
I'm talking about the stuff
which they don't talk about.

320
00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:31,520
And you see people making the
same mistakes over and over

321
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,040
again.
And I thought to myself, you

322
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,600
know what, someone needs to put
this in a book.

323
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,200
And there's no reason why it
can't be me because at the time

324
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,960
I just left my second.
No, it was my third school that

325
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,960
I, that I taught at.
And I actually, I did this both

326
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,640
times.
Whenever I left the school, I

327
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,600
didn't make a leaving speech, I
made a leaving statement.

328
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,040
So I, I would write it all up
and I'd e-mail it to everybody

329
00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,840
and it would always be about
four or five pages, 5 or 6 pages

330
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,360
long, if I remember correctly.
And I'd get so much nice

331
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:05,520
feedback from them.
Do you know what?

332
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,000
I absolutely enjoyed reading
this.

333
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,760
Thank you so much.
We're going to miss you and all

334
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,560
that kind of thing.
And I, I always, I have had

335
00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:15,680
something of a passion for
writing, you know, and from

336
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,480
doing those, from doing the
statement the second time at my

337
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,560
third school, I was like, that
combined with what I just said

338
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,080
about people need to put,
somebody needs to put this in a

339
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:26,920
book.
And there's no reason why it

340
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,920
can't be me.
I've been 11-12 years in.

341
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,040
I was at that point, more than
that now, obviously.

342
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,640
And then I just did it.
I just finished the I did the

343
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,880
Birmingham Half Marathon at the
time and in my mind, because you

344
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,200
have to, if you've ever trained
for a marathon, you'll know.

345
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,840
We haven't.
Like you trained for a marathon

346
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,160
or a half marathon in my case, I
shouldn't say marathon on the

347
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,880
Sunday.
You've got to do a long run, OK,

348
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,240
a very long slow run.
And, and it was at that point on

349
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,280
every Sunday where the chapters
used to come to my mind just

350
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,760
because just thoughts just
flowing, you know, then I'd

351
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,400
write them all down.
So anyway, Long story short, I

352
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,960
went to some publishers with it
and they said this is really

353
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,840
good, but we're not.
We don't do a genre like this,

354
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,560
but but but we do like it.
OK.

355
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,000
So I got about 17 rejections,
all for the same reason,

356
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,720
actually, yeah, yeah, all for
the same reason.

357
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,520
They were like, this is really
good, but but this is not what

358
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,760
we're looking for.
We don't publish books like

359
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:29,920
this.
And of course, the Edu

360
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,280
publishers at the time, at least
I don't know what they're like

361
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,560
now.
They unless you're research

362
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,200
informed, they, they, they don't
care that they don't have time

363
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,760
for you.
So I self published and from

364
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,600
there that did really well
particularly in the second year.

365
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,680
So it, it was quite slow moving.
Well, I say slow, I don't again,

366
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,040
I don't know what the basis for
comparison is.

367
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,200
It didn't do that well in first
year, but in the second year

368
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,960
then it kind of it did really
well after that.

369
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,640
Then off the back of that I had
published approached me

370
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,440
actually.
So you did well.

371
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,680
You want to write another one?
With their tail between their

372
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,200
legs saying, oh, actually, yeah.
Actually none of them rejected

373
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:13,280
me though to be fair I mean.
So, so you, you are an online

374
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:14,680
sensation.
You're you're an author.

375
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:17,320
You.
You recognised Omar from

376
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,960
somewhere else though.
I I'm pretty sure there's

377
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:19,960
something else we need to
mention.

378
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,800
Omar, I feel like a few years
ago, you, you were really good

379
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,560
at some sort of dance.
I think it was ha ha ha, the

380
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,000
shuffle.
You might have been a viral

381
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,080
sensation.
What was that about?

382
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,000
Yeah, no, I'm so that was before
there was no TikTok or anything

383
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,160
like that, but yeah.
And so that that didn't exist,

384
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,880
but shuffling was, that's always
been a thing, I'd say.

385
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,480
And it was the end of the first
week back in September of I

386
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,160
believe 2019.
And I just stayed behind a

387
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,160
couple of nights after school.
Then I learnt how to shuffle and

388
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,280
my, my friends technician at the
time.

389
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,360
And I said, all right, just just
just film this for a laugh.

390
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,480
And then I posted it.
And then I literally just posted

391
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:01,680
it.
You've got to remember at the

392
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,440
time I probably had like 2000
followers or something, 3000,

393
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,480
something like that.
So something not, you know,

394
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,160
massively significant.
And I remember just making a cup

395
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,360
of tea or whatever and I came
back and it was 150 likes now.

396
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:20,320
But, but by that time I'd only,
if I got like 100 likes in three

397
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,080
days, it was like, Oh my God, I
got, I'm going viral.

398
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,560
I got 150 likes in, in like not
even 10 minutes.

399
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,680
I was like, OK, and then they
just kept coming, coming,

400
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,360
coming.
Then I had my friends Dming me

401
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:32,720
saying this is going to go
viral.

402
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,440
I was like, what?
What does viral mean?

403
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,800
I don't know what is that.
Is that some kind of illness?

404
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,840
Yeah, no, exactly.
And then the next thing you know

405
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,200
Birmingham Mail are in my DM
saying we want to do an article

406
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,600
about this and the ITV as well.
Yeah, I saw the ITV article.

407
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,120
That's what popped out, Yeah.
Yeah, then I had to, so I agreed

408
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,000
to the articles as well on the
condition that they don't

409
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,640
mention the name of the school.
Sure.

410
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,200
And then I had told the head
teacher when I got back and the

411
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,040
head teacher was like, you know,
you really should have asked

412
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,680
permission first when you speak
to the media, because that is

413
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,480
you do have to.
And I should have remembered

414
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,520
that because I've been a union
Rep before, right?

415
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,000
And you are too.
Excited.

416
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,920
Yeah, if the media, if you're
going to say if you're going to

417
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,520
agree to an interview or
whatever with the media,

418
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,160
whatever it is, it could be
something innocent.

419
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,599
You do have to tell your head.
It's a bit like, just to digress

420
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:23,520
slightly, if you're on strike
and you're all you've got the

421
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,800
picket line outside on the
school gates, if somebody from

422
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,840
the media approaches you for an
interview, you, you can't agree.

423
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,560
You can't say yes.
And unless you've asked the head

424
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,480
first, I didn't know that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

425
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,120
And the head will often tell you
beforehand saying I don't want

426
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:40,240
anybody agreeing.
Yeah.

427
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,280
I had no idea.
I would have just done the media

428
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,000
interview and got it wrong
because I would have just been

429
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:45,920
like, yes, I'm going to talk to
you.

430
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:48,240
Yeah, yeah.
Good job we didn't start our own

431
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,920
media outlet.
Because of the Strike podcast.

432
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,080
Made our own podcast.
What's the rule on that?

433
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:54,280
We.
Won't talk to the media, we'll

434
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:55,640
just talk to everyone we
possibly.

435
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,600
We'll be the media.
Cut the man out.

436
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,440
Oh dear.
Well, I must.

437
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,320
I must say, when I read your
tweets, I do get that vibe, that

438
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,880
authorship vibe.
The way you write is quite

439
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,400
engaging.
It makes me want to read on.

440
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,880
And I know they're quite short
tweets often, but you still pack

441
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,400
a punch in those short amount of
words.

442
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,400
And what I've done is I've just
collated together a few of my

443
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,360
favourite tweets.
Oh, and there's this one, I'm

444
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:23,760
gonna call it a genre dramas.
There's one genre of tweet that

445
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,680
you have.
They're called tweet tower

446
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:26,800
posts, whatever.
I don't know.

447
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,080
But there's one genre that
really every time I see it pop

448
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,080
up, I get excited because I'm
like, oh, what's it gonna be

449
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,640
this time?
And it always starts, always

450
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,640
starts with I don't know who
needs to hear this or I don't

451
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,120
know which teacher needs to hear
this.

452
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,440
And I'm just like, it's going to
be every teacher ever.

453
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:42,440
Let's see what he's going to
say.

454
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,240
And what I love about them is
they range from hilarious,

455
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,960
nothing to do with teaching at
all really, or really serious

456
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,120
posts.
So I've written three.

457
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:52,640
So the first one.
You wanted to read this one

458
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,560
because even though this is not
supposed to be teacher related,

459
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:55,840
I can still bring it back to
teaching.

460
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,600
I'll tell you why at the end.
So Omar wrote on Twitter.

461
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,400
XI don't know who needs to hear
this, but if the pack says feeds

462
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,080
four people, what they really
mean is you can eat the whole

463
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,480
damn box and not think twice
about it.

464
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,320
And the reason that really
resonated with me, made me laugh

465
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,440
is because literally yesterday I
was given the remains of A10

466
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,440
pack, A10 box of mini rolls and
there was 6 left and I said I

467
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:20,720
have one.
I said you can have the box if

468
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:21,880
you want.
I said I don't think you want to

469
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,560
do that.
They were like no, just take the

470
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,960
box, put me in your cupboard.
I said they won't make it to my

471
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,120
cupboard, I will eat the six.
They were like no you won't.

472
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:31,520
I ate all six but they ate 5 and
I said I'll save one for a rainy

473
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,160
day.
Ate it 2 minutes after the

474
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,520
children left.
It was so.

475
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,080
Well done, well done It was it?
Was it in half term?

476
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,000
Half term?
No, absolutely not.

477
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,120
I was in school.
Yeah, it was it was lunchtime.

478
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,560
I'd eat in.
Half term then then the calories

479
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:44,640
don't count.
See No.

480
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:46,640
That's the rule.
Yeah, that's the rule.

481
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,560
Oh, we've been doing it wrong.
We forgot the first bit of that

482
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,040
sentence.
We just thought the calories

483
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:51,480
don't.
Count.

484
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,400
OK, alright, fair, right.
Go on, do another one.

485
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:57,120
OK, right.
Sorry.

486
00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,320
I know we're just bombarding you
with your own words here, but I

487
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,200
want this next one.
I don't know which teacher needs

488
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,520
to hear this, but when you play
this, this one hit home.

489
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,800
When you play a video for the
class, you don't have to keep

490
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,840
pausing it so that you can
repeat exactly what the man in

491
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,920
the video just said.
Do do do you?

492
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,640
Are you guilty of this or have
you seen other?

493
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,400
People 100% are guilty of it.
A lot of the things I, the

494
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,160
tweets which take that format,
I've done them and I know that

495
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,040
other people do them too, yeah.
Honestly, it's like self help.

496
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:31,880
When you write it, it's like
it's me who needs to.

497
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,560
I don't know who needs this.
It's me.

498
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:34,600
It's.
Me, who needs to?

499
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,280
I don't know.
There's going to think I'm lazy.

500
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,560
Yeah, there is some kind of I
get some degree of satisfaction

501
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,720
from knowing actually, it's not
just me, it's everybody.

502
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,120
I wouldn't have got that many
likes if it wasn't.

503
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,280
You know what I mean?
It was and, and I this is the

504
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,560
thing.
I read it and I was like, yeah,

505
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,040
you don't need to do that.
And I thought back to my literal

506
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:53,560
last science lesson I did with
my class.

507
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,560
I was, I was pausing.
Like, so that's photosynthesis.

508
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,800
It's like, yeah, he's just said
I'm just, I'm just repeating it.

509
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,280
I'm not, I'm adding nothing to
this.

510
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,600
I'm basically just, I'm doing
what I'm doing now.

511
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,640
I'm taking Omar's tweets and be
like, yeah, yeah, this tweet's

512
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,120
funny.
I'm doing.

513
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,360
But I said it.
No, but I said it now.

514
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:09,360
Yeah, but stop because I said
it.

515
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:10,520
Actually, I know you want to go
do it.

516
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:11,880
More serious one.
Can I jump in with?

517
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,400
One more because this, it wasn't
the same genre, was it?

518
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,000
But you're like.
OK, yeah, But one thing, so I

519
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:18,920
haven't mentioned this yet, but
you're a secondary school

520
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,680
teacher, which is something else
we're really excited to talk

521
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,400
about because we've had a lot
of, obviously we're primary

522
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,200
school teachers and we've talked
to a lot of primary school

523
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,520
teachers.
So one of one of your tweets

524
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,080
just made me laugh because it
said year sevens really do

525
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,640
volunteer for everything, don't
they?

526
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,760
Just short and sweet and it
just, I don't know what's it

527
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:34,760
like?
They're like, what are you?

528
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,600
Are they really like that year
sevens like?

529
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,160
They are, they are.
They had.

530
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,520
Their pencil cases are full of
all sorts of equipment, man.

531
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,840
If you ever want a glue stick or
a highlighter, you just rob some

532
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,520
year sevens.
I'm telling you, they're if they

533
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,520
leave their pencil cases lying
around, just take it.

534
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,640
Did I leave my pencil case?
No, I haven't seen it.

535
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:52,640
You know what I mean?
It's so fun.

536
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,440
And they will have everything in
there.

537
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,040
So yeah, they're keen and
they're enthusiastic and they've

538
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,280
got that kind of curiosity.
I think that's what they have a

539
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:02,680
lot of.
Well, they're going to lose it

540
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,320
at some point, aren't they?
Yeah, exactly.

541
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:05,880
It goes somewhere.
Well, if you enjoy that.

542
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,120
I mean, primary school is just
that.

543
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,320
Just keep going down the Ingrid
even more, you know.

544
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,160
It's.
Can I have any help?

545
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:13,080
It's all the hands up.
Yeah.

546
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,320
They don't know what it is.
That's so sweet.

547
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,800
I have I have regular helpers at
lunch time where they're just

548
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,880
desperate to please.
They just always on a please and

549
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,640
they say, oh, do you need any
help hanging out the sheets this

550
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:22,720
afternoon?
Yes, please.

551
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,320
Do you need any help getting the
books out?

552
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,880
Oh, absolutely.
Feeling yourself.

553
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,080
Yes, You feed me my sandwich.
It's fine, you know, just do

554
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,880
anything for you.
No, they absolutely can't wait

555
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,160
to help out, can they?
It's a lot of energy, I think.

556
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,840
I don't think I'd have the
energy to be a primary school

557
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,560
teacher.
I guess it links to this next

558
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,760
the Last Post I'm going to
mention it's like entertaining

559
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,840
and I read your post and I
thought a lot of primary school

560
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,880
teachers need to hear this.
So this is like the most I guess

561
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,960
serious one, but still made me
laugh.

562
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,760
But it's the most actual.
Got a good point to it in terms

563
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,680
of like your teaching?
We can have a discussion about

564
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:54,240
it.
Yeah, it was.

565
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,400
I don't know who needs to hear
this, but there's nothing wrong

566
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,560
with book work.
Reading and writing are

567
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,320
important skills and not every
lesson should involve you doing

568
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,360
hula hoops and juggling axes
whilst writing unicycle.

569
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,280
We're educators, not
entertainers.

570
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,160
And I, I watch that, I read that
and I thought in secondary

571
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,920
school I bet that is like a
conversation you have between

572
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,320
staff where you're like, do I
need to educate, entertain them?

573
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,320
Whereas in primary school, I
feel like we're doing that every

574
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,800
single day.
So the reason why I tweeted that

575
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,320
specific thing is because there
was a time and in some schools

576
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:32,200
there, that time is it's still
the case whereby if you've got

577
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,320
kids misbehaving in your lesson,
you will be blamed for that

578
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,160
because your lesson is not quote
unquote engaging enough.

579
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,440
What they actually mean often is
it's not entertaining enough.

580
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,960
Right, okay.
And all the point I wanted to

581
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,640
make was that actually, you know
what, sometimes you need to read

582
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,640
page 34 and 35, you can't answer
the questions in the yellow box.

583
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,800
It does not make you a lazy
teacher completely.

584
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,240
That needs to be done sometimes
because reading and writing are

585
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,800
fundamental skills.
You don't have to do backflips

586
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,920
all the time and you shouldn't
have to either.

587
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,840
And I think the, the, the need
to do that or the perceived

588
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,400
needs, if you want to call it
that, to do that is part of what

589
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,680
is fuelling the recruitment and
retention crisis.

590
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,360
You know, because instead of
doing like a very simple

591
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:24,000
activity, some new teachers who
haven't got the resource bank

592
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,160
that we have yet spend ages and
ages trying to do something.

593
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,960
Again, going back to the serious
point, like I thought I read

594
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,360
that and I was like, oh, that's
the the most serious point

595
00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:34,360
instead embedded in humour.
And I think what you do really

596
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:37,040
well in your on your timeline,
and I'd implore anyone to follow

597
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,880
over their primary or secondary
is you say what needs to be

598
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,200
said.
And, and you, you say things

599
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,800
that some people will look at
and go, oh, oh, he, he's just

600
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,680
said that, you know, can't say
that sometimes you don't have to

601
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,080
be really entertaining for the
children.

602
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,160
It's like, yeah, because I I
would, I'd say one word on mine.

603
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,200
Maybe you can tell me if that's
this is right or wrong.

604
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,760
When I, when I hear you speak,
the word realist comes to mind.

605
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,560
And I think that's what really
piqued my interest with what

606
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,280
you've been writing as well
about teaching for realist for

607
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,640
for we live in the real world.
And sometimes it can feel like

608
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,360
online spaces are are just
made-up in our head where we've

609
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:16,120
got to try and fit this box and
look like where these academia

610
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:18,680
amazing over the top or we know
everything.

611
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,920
We're real humans just doing a
job.

612
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,840
And you encapsulated that really
well.

613
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,640
Would you say that's a fair
judgement of what you do?

614
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:26,720
That that is what I aim to do.
Yes.

615
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,120
It's nice to know that if you
perceive me that way, I'm I'm

616
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,760
yeah, I'm very grateful for
that.

617
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,440
Thank you so much.
That that is what I what I aim

618
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,280
to do.
Because I mean, like I said

619
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:42,240
earlier, I tell what, what I
found was that there is a lot of

620
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,040
theory being taught.
And that's I'm not disrespecting

621
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,520
the theory.
Everybody needs to know how to

622
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,840
teach and all of that.
But the other stuff, the reasons

623
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,760
why I guess a lot of people
leave the profession is because

624
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,680
they haven't been told how to
navigate around those things.

625
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,440
Stuff that I talk about in my
books and the stuff that you

626
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,920
have talked about both of you in
your podcast episodes as well.

627
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,600
You know, I think, I think
that's what needs to be out.

628
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,240
More of that needs to be out
there.

629
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,080
And that's what I do.
What I do, yeah.

630
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,240
It's brilliant, Omar, it's
really good.

631
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,680
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.

632
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,280
And let me also just say,
because obviously the pleasure

633
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,320
is mine being here 100% because
I've listened to your, your I've

634
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,240
listened to a handful of
episodes of yours now and I

635
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,360
just, I listen to it.
And I think these two guys when

636
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:32,720
they're like my brothers from
above, like everything that

637
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,920
everything you're saying is
like, sure, thank God somebody's

638
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,040
saying this and I'm nothing
along with it as well thinking,

639
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,760
yes, that's what I would say.
That's exactly what I think.

640
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,360
That's I think I wrote that in
one chapter.

641
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:41,520
I love it.
It's hard.

642
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,360
Like, you know, I don't know if
you find this, but we certainly

643
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:46,120
find, I mean, you.
Dylan's online a lot, but he's

644
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:48,760
doing, running the Instagram a
lot more involvement than I do.

645
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,320
But yeah, people do comment and
really try and put you down.

646
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:54,960
Yeah, they really do try and
fight back and and be like, no,

647
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,800
you're a rubbish teacher then.
Like there's so much toxicity

648
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,560
that I feel is like embedded
into teachers, into the culture,

649
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,280
into just everyone.
Like everyone's just out to get.

650
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,240
Everyone and those people often
aren't even teachers that only

651
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,040
if you get a lot of this
homework where people want to

652
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,040
say stuff online who've never
done a day in the job.

653
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,600
Oh God, don't get me started on
members of the public, you know

654
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:14,360
what I mean?
I try.

655
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:17,720
I avoid them though on online.
Not not in my life.

656
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:19,880
Every day.
I just sit in my room all day.

657
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,880
No online in the, in the Twitter
sphere X or whatever we were

658
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,440
calling it.
I just, I avoid anything like

659
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,080
that.
But yeah, when there's a teacher

660
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,400
strike or something like that,
everybody's got an opinion.

661
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,320
Frustrating.
Okay, well, what what I wanted

662
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,720
to get into now and I'm really
appreciative, Omar, when we

663
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,160
spoke about what we wanted to
talk about in this podcast

664
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,240
episode, because I think like
you said, big theme for all of

665
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,720
us here is saying what needs to
be said.

666
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:46,000
And something that popped up
that we are going to dive into

667
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,880
now is something that's a huge
issue for a lot of teachers.

668
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,760
We've seen it first hand, you've
experienced it and you're you're

669
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,080
going to talk us through some of
your experiences with this.

670
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,920
And it is bullying in the
workplace and it's and it's

671
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,560
actually toxic schools.
So we're going to really dive

672
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:00,840
into this.
I know straight away, anyone

673
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,160
listening who's experienced
this, feel free to reach out to

674
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:04,160
us.
You know, we can chat about

675
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,760
anything.
If it's you've experienced

676
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,040
anything, we're about to go
through this, help this help out

677
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,360
there.
And what we're going to try and

678
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:12,640
do now is just lift a little
Omar, if that's OK.

679
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,200
So what we're going to start off
by just saying you, you

680
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,400
mentioned how you know in your
job, you started off teaching,

681
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,080
you moved to school and you did
a blog post that you sent us and

682
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,320
it was, it's a 10 out of 10 blog
posts.

683
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,920
We'll link.
It yeah, we'll link it down

684
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,640
below.
It's, it's so, so good.

685
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,920
It's so real.
And it's about your experience

686
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,320
with bullying in the workplace.
So I just wanted you to, first

687
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,960
of all, if you could lay out the
context of what happened in, in

688
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,160
your experience in your second
school, once you moved there,

689
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,000
how long did it take to start to
notice this school's toxic?

690
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,120
And what were the indicators for
you experiencing that?

691
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,920
So got to remember this was in
2011.

692
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,200
So I'm happy now and I have been
ever since, you know what I

693
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,000
mean?
So this is not something that

694
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,160
I'm over it.
So I've got to look back on it.

695
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,720
Which is also nice to hear.
I'm just going to.

696
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,240
Say yeah, no, absolutely.
For people that are going

697
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,640
through it now.
So I was moving house and my

698
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,520
house was too far away from my
school.

699
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,480
So I had to move school and I
visited the school beforehand

700
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,040
and, and bearing in mind I was
only young then, everything

701
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,840
seemed fine.
But in hindsight, there was one

702
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,440
thing they said on the day which
should have made me not apply

703
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,320
and that was that meetings go on
as long as they have to.

704
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,120
OK.
Now he was the, he was the

705
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,080
deputy no assistant head at the
time.

706
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,760
He says we're not one of these
schools where as soon as it,

707
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,960
it's, excuse me, as soon as it
gets to half four, everybody

708
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,080
looks at their watch and, you
know, gets up and walks off.

709
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,760
He said meetings go on as long
as they have to.

710
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,840
And I was thinking in my mind,
but I ignored it.

711
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,800
You know, when you have a
thought, you ignore your gut

712
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,000
instinct.
That's exactly what I was

713
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,680
thinking in my mind.
The school I'm coming from,

714
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,200
that's exactly what we do in the
sense that when it's half four,

715
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,400
everybody's looking at their
watch saying hurry this along,

716
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,840
don't be asking questions.
At the end.

717
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,360
We were very unionised.
My post and that was a sign I I

718
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,920
ignored and I shouldn't have.
And then when I started the

719
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,280
school so me and the head of
department.

720
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,800
So I was new when the head of
department was new, had a

721
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,760
department came from a similar
ethos of a school to me where

722
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,880
where she was able to lead her
then smaller department at her

723
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,040
previous school, she was able to
lead it more independently.

724
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,760
Now she start when she started
this school with me, she was

725
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:48,640
being dictated to from the top.
And when I say dictated to, it

726
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,480
was literally every single
thing.

727
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,160
She couldn't even decide whether
you'll love this because T key

728
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,560
stage 3 had red books and key
stage 4 had blue books.

729
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,480
She couldn't decide which colour
goes to which key stage.

730
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:09,160
That got told to her.
OK, that was dictatorial, very

731
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,880
much so.
But even on a side note, the way

732
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,920
they acted was dictatorial.
So what would happen was we'd be

733
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,080
in the staff room because that's
where the briefings would happen

734
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,560
and we'd have to get there.
Have to get there at 8:35 AM,

735
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,400
OK, At 8:40, all 12 members of
the DAM leadership team, OK.

736
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,560
I think it was told them,
whatever it is, yeah, they'd all

737
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,920
come to the front and line up in
a row facing everybody, and

738
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,360
everybody would just go quiet,
you know, just see like that was

739
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,720
their display of we're in charge
here.

740
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,600
Yeah, You knew that it was going
to be a bad news pretty quickly.

741
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,120
Is that what?
You're, Yeah, Yeah.

742
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,960
But unlike anybody, you know,
you try and you, you get on.

743
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,800
You might not like certain
things, but you do just you

744
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,040
think, hey, I'm here for the
kids.

745
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,680
I like teaching in the
classroom.

746
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,800
And that's all good.
Yeah, and there's a few things I

747
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,360
could tell you.
So this was back in the days of

748
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,760
coursework.
OK, so there was, this is pre

749
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,800
Michael Gove or when Michael
Gove was about to start.

750
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,480
So there was still coursework
going on which was about to

751
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,480
finish.
Now it was common at a lot of

752
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:24,080
schools, although I didn't know
that then for kids to get FS for

753
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,040
the exam or E, but an A star for
coursework and then average,

754
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,880
then their average mark would be
AC.

755
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,080
Then you'd get your 5A to CS.
People used to give a lot of

756
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,360
help in coursework, but there's
help and there is outright,

757
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,560
there's a there's a help,
there's a lot of help and

758
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,680
there's outright cheating, as in
mark scheme on the board

759
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,200
cheating.
OK, now they were doing that.

760
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,160
So what would, what happened was
my groups were getting DS for

761
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,120
the coursework as I wasn't doing
what they were doing.

762
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,840
Then everybody else is we're
getting a stars, not even as a

763
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,280
stars, you know what I mean?
Like the highest grade

764
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,840
available, right?
All of them as well.

765
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,360
And they asked me to repeat the
coursework after school.

766
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,920
OK, Now you've got to bear in
mind these are two hour thingies

767
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,440
and if you've got two groups or
three groups, whatever I had at

768
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,320
the time, I'd have to spend all
that time after school, OK.

769
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,520
And I and I, it was the, the
assistant head who came to see

770
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,400
me, he said, you know, these
kids have got to get CS.

771
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,240
I mean, as in overall, like
that's how they used to talk as

772
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,160
if it was the stock, you know,
like stocks going up and stuff.

773
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:37,880
It's got to go up, it's got to
go.

774
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,120
You know, honestly, it was all
it was all that kind of talk

775
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,160
which I wasn't used.
To so was was he basically

776
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,000
saying at that point was he
basically saying to you you need

777
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,680
to cheat?
Is that essentially what was?

778
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:47,640
Going on, you can infer that
can't.

779
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,360
Yeah, he was saying you repeat
it until you until they get A's.

780
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:52,800
Right, right.
OK.

781
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,920
And to which I said, you can't
make me do that.

782
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,480
You can't make me stay after
school, OK, not for that long

783
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,240
because I said union regulations
and all that.

784
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,920
So he came and he came and saw
me the next day.

785
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,760
And then he said I've spoken to
the head.

786
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,480
And he said, actually we can
make you do that because our

787
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,600
school is below 1265.
The whole directed time myth.

788
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:19,040
Yeah, and I was just like, that
doesn't make it OK.

789
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:24,080
But anyway, then he said at the
end of the day, you've got to

790
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,600
think to yourself, if you leave
here, what kind of a reference

791
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,880
do you think you'll get?
OK now, so that's kind of, so

792
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,760
that was the major, one of the
major points.

793
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,280
That's the point at which I
realised that actually this is

794
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,080
bullying now, right.
But in the background of all of

795
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,800
this, though, so that's just one
incident in the background of

796
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,360
all of this, what was happening,
They did a lot of Saturday

797
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,880
revision sessions, so.
More extra time basically

798
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,440
expected from you.
Right.

799
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,760
Let me also say the teaching in
the classroom there was

800
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,280
absolutely crap.
Really. 100% And this is what

801
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,080
this is what why I was just so
bamboozled by it all because in

802
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,480
the classroom I was cutting it.
I was, I'm not blowing my own

803
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:08,760
trumpet.
I was doing well in the

804
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,800
classroom, going by the response
of the kids, Okay, those

805
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,520
teachers weren't, but they were
doing Saturday sessions, right?

806
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,040
And they were seen as more keen
than I was.

807
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,120
Doing a better job What would?
Happen is somebody would would

808
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,520
would come and come up to you
with a clipboard and be like,

809
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,960
oh, we're going to which
Saturday session shall we put

810
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,440
you down on?
So leading.

811
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,840
I was like, don't, don't just
don't just let that roll off

812
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:30,360
you.
What do you mean?

813
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:31,800
Which one shall we put?
None of them.

814
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,200
Yeah, absolutely.
I don't want to do.

815
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:35,880
I don't want to do a single one.
Yeah.

816
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,160
OK, but but you push back on
that and then what?

817
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,120
But on that push back, they
didn't put their tail between

818
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,240
their legs, right?
They, they kind of doubled down

819
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:46,320
and, and made it even worse for
you, right?

820
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,560
So when I I didn't do them,
yeah.

821
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,040
And then the the passive
aggressive behaviour came out

822
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,360
OK, So we were getting emails
saying these groups need

823
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,960
intervention because it's their
GCC, it's their most important

824
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,680
year.
Can somebody please do it?

825
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,880
Unfortunately, they're not
getting any intervention on

826
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,440
that.
And it's like, these are all my

827
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,160
groups.
Enraging.

828
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,160
So that stuff like that happened
and you could tell, I could tell

829
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,960
that I was being talked about as
well.

830
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,600
You know, when you walk in and
everybody goes quiet.

831
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,600
Thankfully, that doesn't happen
to me now.

832
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,600
It was happening then.
What a horrible feeling.

833
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,400
Oh, it was horrible.
Now you've also got to remember

834
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,720
that in the midst of all of
this, like the previous thing I

835
00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:32,480
just told you and this my head
of department was getting

836
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:33,800
bullied too.
Yeah.

837
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,600
OK, now she was getting shouted
at in meetings.

838
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,040
Unbelievable.
OK, like outright loud voice

839
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,640
shouted at Unbelievable.
She cried a few times to me.

840
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,400
Right.
And it was, it was literally a

841
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,520
toxic because that phrase didn't
exist then.

842
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,240
This is what the other thing
we've got to remember.

843
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:53,200
Toxic schools.
No, no one used that phrase

844
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:53,480
then.
Yeah.

845
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,240
Yeah, yeah.
So you don't know because you

846
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:56,120
don't have the air.
Yeah.

847
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,000
Yeah.
So all of that was going on at

848
00:36:59,000 --> 00:36:59,720
the time.
Yeah.

849
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,600
You you, you mentioned very
quickly.

850
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,240
I just want to mention in the
blog post again, we've linked it

851
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,280
below so anyone listening wants
to read it through it.

852
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,720
It's such a good read.
You mentioned the fact that you

853
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:12,000
know, you, you standing up to
and a lot of people were

854
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,320
listening to this saying, oh, I
struggle to stand up to stuff

855
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,880
because of the impact.
Like you said, people talking

856
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,200
about me, they don't want to
feel that way.

857
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,040
You also mentioned, and we've
seen this first hand and think

858
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,200
maybe Hayden will talk about a
bit more experience.

859
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,400
I've seen it with other people
You mentioned about maybe you

860
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,560
could explain to our listeners
the impact it has when they

861
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,960
turned around and said to you,
OK, no problem.

862
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,440
When we're sorting out classes
next year though you're in 20

863
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,560
different classes and and this
this idea of SLT being like OK

864
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,760
well that's fine yeah we'll play
the game and do you know what

865
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,960
we'll play the game 10 times
worse make.

866
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,000
Your life awful through legit
like ways through the.

867
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,680
School.
So can you maybe expand on that

868
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,040
a bit?
There was a point in that time

869
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,560
where I just wanted to be left
alone.

870
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:53,320
Yeah.
So I thought, you know what, I'm

871
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,240
just going to play ball.
So I did.

872
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,720
AI didn't do any Saturday
sessions, but what I did say

873
00:37:57,720 --> 00:37:59,560
was, OK, I'll do mine after
school.

874
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,000
OK, I've got a revision workshop
Thursday after school anyway.

875
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,520
But you're on mental health at
this point, right?

876
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,120
Just so you've.
Yeah, exactly.

877
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,360
But I was tempted to do the the
Saturday sessions as well.

878
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,240
And, and the reason for that was
because of what you just said,

879
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:17,760
because I should have mentioned
that earlier where people told

880
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,320
me that they didn't do Saturday
sessions and they were

881
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,440
timetabled in 20 different
rooms.

882
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,800
The following year I actually
spoke to people who's who did

883
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,680
not have any 2 consecutive
lessons in the same place.

884
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,240
Now I'm just for the listeners.
What that means is you've got to

885
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:40,400
take all your stuff, all the
exercise books, OK, your laptop,

886
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,000
your clicker, the whole thing.
You've got to do that five times

887
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,440
a day.
All right?

888
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,400
Now that will ruin anybody.
Yeah.

889
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,920
Cannot function like that.
It's, it's like a constant

890
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,240
feeling of, you know what
feeling you get?

891
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:54,520
Where?
Where are my keys?

892
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,280
Yeah, yeah, and you're rushing
around trying to find your keys.

893
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,280
Yeah.
It's like that constantly.

894
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,320
Yeah, you know.
And you're, you know, and they

895
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,560
were doing that on purpose.
They were doing that.

896
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,840
As punishment, this is the thing
because like, people told me I

897
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,400
did not do them and I got And
this is what happened to me.

898
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,520
I not only actually.
Yeah.

899
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,040
Just on a side note as well,
there was somebody who had time

900
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,480
off and that's what they did to
her the following year.

901
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:19,480
Yeah.
OK.

902
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,200
So that was their method of
bullying.

903
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,760
Yeah.
Because I eventually left.

904
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:23,600
Yeah.
OK.

905
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,400
And when I left my head of
department, she was still there

906
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,840
and she was in 20 rooms the
follow up here.

907
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,880
So it wasn't just, no, it wasn't
just being paranoid.

908
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,760
It actually happened.
Yeah, what I mean.

909
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,200
We can attest to this.
I want Hayden to talk about it

910
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,240
because you're already
passionate.

911
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:41,640
Hayden's really passionate about
this and there are parallels

912
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,000
because like I said, you're
secondary being in 20 classes,

913
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,440
it's not really something you
can do to a primary school

914
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:47,520
teacher.
So when we have like these

915
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,560
parallel toxic schools, yeah,
schools find a different way.

916
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,040
And we've, we've witnessed it,
haven't we?

917
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:52,960
A.
Few times.

918
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,280
So we've worked at school, we've
worked at a couple of schools

919
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,880
together now back in the early
days of our career when we were

920
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,360
getting started and we were
super passionate and like we'd

921
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:01,680
do anything.
So we're in the good books at

922
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,760
this point.
We're we're in that circle of

923
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,280
you're right, you're all right,
you crack on.

924
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,680
You know, we like you, but we,
we witnessed other teachers and

925
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:14,200
two, two people come to mind. 2
amazing women come to mind who I

926
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,520
I learned a lot from myself
because they were my heads of

927
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,880
years across various years.
They will come to the end of

928
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,800
their careers and they'd worked
at this school for their entire

929
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,640
career.
You know, we're talking 3035

930
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,040
years in in a particular school
like a real dedication an.

931
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,840
Established teacher in a local
community.

932
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,280
To one place Yeah, you know, and
and they both you know, to cut

933
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,600
this story a bit shorter, they,
they both left on horrible,

934
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,680
horrible negative terms at the
school One of them literally

935
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,960
just left one day and didn't
come back because they they were

936
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,280
bullied they were just bullied
bully, bully, bullied by SLT,

937
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,680
the same sort of thing it's not
the 20 classrooms, it's the hey

938
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,400
this year you're teaching year 4
hey and.

939
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,280
Leading it and leading.
It oh, and leading it next year

940
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:54,960
and go to year three and then
you're gonna go to year five.

941
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,320
And and that's like our
equivalent, by the way, when

942
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,600
you, when you're teaching a
primary school, if you're in a

943
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,400
year group, you put so much work
in to like get that right and

944
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,760
especially in your first year.
Knowing that year 2 will be

945
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,280
better.
New planning, knowing that

946
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,280
hopefully you'll stay in that
year group the next year because

947
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,160
you've put, you've put tonnes of
work in and these teachers were

948
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,880
pushed around and, and then, and
then here's the, I hate this.

949
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,160
I'm going to get really annoyed
about this.

950
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,320
But here's the other thing that
that primary schools do.

951
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,400
It's the observations.
And I'm sure it's probably

952
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,920
similar to for secondary
schools.

953
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,520
It's the observations.
That's what they did to my head

954
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,560
of department.
They were constantly in a room

955
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,880
giving her feedback as like.
Feedback.

956
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,720
Yeah, yeah and yeah.
So we had, we had these, you

957
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:34,320
know, these, these two teachers
established 35 year careers who

958
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,080
are basically being told they're
rubbish because they just wanted

959
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:38,440
to get rid of them.
They wanted them out.

960
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,000
They wanted new, fresh, cheap
teachers.

961
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,320
Yeah.
Because they were technically,

962
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,160
this is a bit of the insight of,
I'm sure, Omar, exactly the same

963
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,880
in secondary school.
These women were on 35, you

964
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,080
know, the top of the pay scale.
They were assistant head

965
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,360
teachers baked into their
contract so as soon as they left

966
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,680
the school knew they could then
not employ assistant head

967
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,280
teachers.
Just whack this job on someone

968
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,320
else for nothing and save 2030
grand and that's all they cared

969
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,880
about it was.
Disgusting the, the way they

970
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,560
were treating a Long story short
that they were, they were

971
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,880
treated in a disgusting way.
And I have so much resentment

972
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,240
still for the SLT team who, who
committed this, You know what I

973
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:13,320
mean, who did this to these
people?

974
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,320
Like so inhumane, as if, like as
if it's just some corporation.

975
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,840
And then the CEO you're culling
the, and the COO who's got this

976
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,720
high paid job and it's like,
you've done your time.

977
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:23,200
Get out.
You know, it was it's just not

978
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,320
the it's not that workplace.
And yeah, I don't know, just

979
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,080
very icky.
So it's, you know, hearing you

980
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,640
talking about that that bullying
and that that passive

981
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,360
aggressive.
Oh, we'll make your life hell

982
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,760
then see how you like it.
Now next time, don't question me

983
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:35,680
and.
This is culture.

984
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,760
It stays with you as well.
You know, I remember because I'm

985
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,200
thinking about it now.
I used to park up around the

986
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,320
corner of school and I used to
chain smoke before I went in.

987
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,800
I used to smoke then.
Well, I used to smoke here and

988
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,080
there then, but but I increased
the smoking, you know, and I

989
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,440
just remember just being the
worst time ever.

990
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,800
And it cannot.
These things don't stay quiet,

991
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,960
you know.
So when when schools do this,

992
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,160
they need to expect that that
other people are going to find

993
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,520
out and people are going to
withdraw their applications.

994
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:10,120
Yeah.
This is this is where like it

995
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,560
always brings me back to this
question, right?

996
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,040
You know, from your experience
reading your blog, it sounds

997
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,200
like you were kind of singled
out essentially, and maybe

998
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,360
you're head of department as
well, but it sounds like there's

999
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,200
a big culture of other teachers,
teachers like, you know, your

1000
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:26,240
position who just took it and
almost sided with the

1001
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:27,080
toxicities.
Like what?

1002
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:28,960
I just think what's wrong with
them for a start?

1003
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,360
Like why did that happen?
Why?

1004
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,320
Why are they on the side that's
against them?

1005
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,840
And how does that happen?
Like, I just, I don't get it.

1006
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,360
What do you think?
I think there's a lot of people,

1007
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:43,680
not just teachers, well people
full stop, who have a very, I

1008
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,720
guess the word to use is
paternalistic approach.

1009
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,840
And what I mean by that is there
are some head teachers who so

1010
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,040
blatantly pick favourites, OK.
And I think with that, I think

1011
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,600
that's the way they did things
there.

1012
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,240
So, oh, you're a favourite wink
and a smile kind of thing.

1013
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,360
They want outright say that
you're a favourite.

1014
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,720
But if it's known that you're a
favourite, then everybody else

1015
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,160
is not a favourite is a is a
hated person.

1016
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,720
So I think I think that's why.
But once people know they're OK,

1017
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:19,520
they will just go along.
I will go along to get along.

1018
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,320
That's what I wanted to talk
about because Omar, you've

1019
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,240
spoken and thank you for opening
up about it.

1020
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:26,120
I know you've written the blog
and you're over it now, so it's

1021
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,080
easy for you to talk about it,
but I think what you're saying

1022
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,960
is going to be really powerful
for people who are going through

1023
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,960
it.
But just just just before you

1024
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,240
continue, though, Dylan, because
I am over it and it's not

1025
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:38,680
something I think about all the
time or anything, but you'll be

1026
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,520
surprised the extent to which
your subconscious make sure that

1027
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:43,840
that's not going to happen
again.

1028
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:44,800
Yeah.
Right.

1029
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:45,280
OK.
Right.

1030
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,160
Or can you just come to my
office for a quick chat?

1031
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:50,920
No.
Tell me what it's about first.

1032
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:51,920
Yeah.
Yeah.

1033
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:53,400
You know what I mean.
Why?

1034
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,320
Why would I think like that?
I've got no reason to distrust

1035
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:57,960
the person because of past
things.

1036
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:01,280
So that's how they act when
you're not ready, that's when

1037
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,240
they behave.
Do you do you feel like, do you

1038
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:09,200
feel like that is a is a big
reason why you feel passionate

1039
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,560
about posting about stuff now?
Because the point I was going to

1040
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,160
make was kind of linked to what
you just said there.

1041
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,440
Interestingly, is it stayed with
me.

1042
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,640
I didn't even go through it.
I witnessed it.

1043
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,760
I saw it happen.
And I thought that can happen to

1044
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,560
me at a drop of a hat.
And, and I feel like seeing it

1045
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,440
happen, seeing people being
bullied in the workplace had

1046
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,080
such a profound effect on me.
It, it's impacted what I'm doing

1047
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,320
now.
And that's why I have no qualms

1048
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,520
sitting here on a podcast and
saying, no, no, no, this school

1049
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,400
was completely toxic.
This person was horrible.

1050
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,640
It's OK to say this because this
is what happened.

1051
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,000
If you've got a problem with it,
potentially you're part of that

1052
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,600
problem as well then, because
all I'm saying is you treated

1053
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,680
these humans awfully.
You should.

1054
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,160
You're in a school, you're not
into a cutthroat industry where,

1055
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,520
like you said, you're forex
trading and you just want to

1056
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,320
make money.
You're in a school where the

1057
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,520
entire ethos of the reason why
we're doing this job, all three

1058
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,240
of us here is because we love
the children and want them to

1059
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,080
develop as humans.
And we're in a culture where

1060
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,160
we're being treated in a way we
would never accept the children

1061
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,240
being taught or, or treated at
all.

1062
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,720
So I, I guess my question is,
yeah, OK, Yeah, like you said,

1063
00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:18,560
you're over it.
But do you think that's what

1064
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,800
sparked your, your desire to
want to get your voice out

1065
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,200
there?
Because there'll be a lot of

1066
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,080
people listening who want to do
what we're doing, but just feel

1067
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,280
a bit scared?
Like, did you find it easy to

1068
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,520
speak out or did it take this
experience for you to really

1069
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,440
find that niche?
I would say if we're talking

1070
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,120
about in terms of my writing and
just generally speaking about

1071
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,680
it.
So this is where I see myself

1072
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,840
myself, excuse me, in you.
Whereas you, you're the same as

1073
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:49,120
me in the sense that you talk
about the positive stuff and you

1074
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,440
and you are clearly passionate
teachers.

1075
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,240
I can see that, OK.
But at the same time you're you

1076
00:46:56,240 --> 00:47:00,280
don't hesitate to talk about the
toxic stuff in the industry too.

1077
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,560
So I'm the same as that in terms
of did that make me speak out in

1078
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:06,960
some way?
Right.

1079
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,600
So you didn't mention this at
the start and I didn't want to

1080
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,040
interrupt you.
So one of my books is actually

1081
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,800
called Bad School Leadership and
what to do about it.

1082
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,960
OK, so I've actually written a
book about toxic schools.

1083
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,360
So I in fact, I actually the
phrase toxic schools wasn't out

1084
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,480
then when I wrote this.
I don't think it was anyway.

1085
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:28,720
Would you have done that as a
title?

1086
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,160
Do you know what?
I probably would have, but there

1087
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,800
is.
So what I learnt from being on

1088
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:38,440
Twitter was that my experience
was not unique in the slightest.

1089
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,640
If you go to a union conference
as well, you'll see that your,

1090
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,560
your experience is that what you
saw happened to other people is

1091
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,440
not unique in the slightest.
And what happens is they all,

1092
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,400
all the toxic leaders, if you
want to call them that, they all

1093
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,480
operate in the same way.
OK, So the way I said 20

1094
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,880
different rooms, you said you're
going to be teaching a different

1095
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,840
phase and just those type of
ways to screw you over

1096
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,720
basically.
So that did that definitely gave

1097
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:09,760
me the motivation to write this
one, you know, but also it's

1098
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,640
not, I don't just advise on, you
know, toxic stuff.

1099
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,080
That's one part of what I've
done.

1100
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,640
You know, so I do, I do keep
things fun and yeah.

1101
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,720
And practical.
What I go by is, is

1102
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,640
practicality.
You've got to be pragmatic in

1103
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,600
teaching.
You've got to do what works.

1104
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,520
Yeah.
A. 100% yeah, no, completely.

1105
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,080
And this is again, why I feel, I
guess I don't want to be

1106
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,680
dramatic, but I do feel inspired
by what you're doing as well in

1107
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:36,520
terms of, I see you right, vice
versa.

1108
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,160
Same, same right back up you
right back up you 100.

1109
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,800
I appreciate it because the
point is I look at what you do

1110
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,200
and I think, cool, we're on the
right path because what we want

1111
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,280
more than anything, Hayden and
I, when we sit and think, OK,

1112
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,640
what we're going to talk about
this week, we will talk about

1113
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,760
toxic schools.
We will talk about how well

1114
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,440
beings awful.
We will talk about why we're

1115
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,360
striking and but then always we
will think to ourselves, But do

1116
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,200
you know what?
OK, let's this week we need to

1117
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,520
do something more positive
because we do love teaching.

1118
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,600
We want to we want to help
people.

1119
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,920
And then we'll do an episode,
which is 8 tips to start the

1120
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,040
start the year correctly because
like you said, we, we're

1121
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,000
pragmatic.
Do you know why we're pragmatic?

1122
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,160
It's not because we like
bitching and talking about it.

1123
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,280
It's because we want to fix the
problem.

1124
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,840
And yes, in order to fix the
problem, yes, we've got to speak

1125
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:20,680
about it and talk about I'm
really passionate.

1126
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,480
And that's the thing.
And the and again the PGC, the

1127
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,280
training courses don't do that.
No, no, not at all.

1128
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,200
So why is it that these
youngsters, the starting

1129
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,560
starting their teachers
training, they don't know that

1130
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,720
till they're three years in?
Do you think that could be a

1131
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:38,680
huge part of the solution?
Yes, absolutely, absolutely they

1132
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,480
should let they.
PGC courses should be required

1133
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,480
to read, and I hope I'm not
blowing my own trumpet by saying

1134
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,040
this.
They should be required to read

1135
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,040
my book and listen to your
podcast on various.

1136
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,760
No, really, they should, because
who else I'm telling them then?

1137
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,040
Yeah, you're right.
So.

1138
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,120
I love that.
Should we write to some

1139
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,040
universities?
Yeah, just try and get them on

1140
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,360
the.
Go in there and do you know what

1141
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,120
though?
If if they were like, yeah, do

1142
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,960
you want to come in and do 1/2
an hour talk about yes, I bloody

1143
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,840
I will come in and I will say
teaching is great.

1144
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,320
But look out for these things
because you know, if I can talk

1145
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,960
to, if I can talk to young Omar,
right?

1146
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,680
And say to him, oh by the way,
and just stop you in that moment

1147
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,360
and say, you know that gut
feeling you had there?

1148
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,080
By the way, trust that because
you know what?

1149
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,760
Exactly, exactly.
Not 100%.

1150
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,240
I agree more.
So in your, in your book, the

1151
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,680
one you just mentioned about,
about leadership and what, what

1152
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,160
do you do about it?
OK, what do we do about it then?

1153
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:31,720
Because this is something we
talk about all the time.

1154
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:33,920
And I'm really excited to, to
get your opinions on this.

1155
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:35,840
What do we do about it?
Because we're always trying to

1156
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,800
fight this good fight.
So we win.

1157
00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:46,120
Yeah, see, this is the thing.
I think there's been a good that

1158
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,960
the tide has gone the right way
recently with the Union.

1159
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,320
People are more unionised now
than they were when I was

1160
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,520
probably a similar age to you,
OK.

1161
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,400
At that point it was hard to get
teachers to go on strike.

1162
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,400
It was actually quite hard to
do.

1163
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,080
I was the Rep, I was a Rep at
the time and I was very much if

1164
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:06,520
the union says strike, you
strike.

1165
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:09,200
But people like, oh, you know, I
don't really want to.

1166
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,720
And that kind of things like no.
So I think unionisation is a

1167
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:15,680
good way, OK.
And we need, we need to have

1168
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,840
the, we need to have the outlook
that a problem for somebody is a

1169
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,520
problem for me.
It's like what you just said,

1170
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,520
Dylan, whereby you witnessed
stuff happening to other people.

1171
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,920
Now a lot of people will witness
things happening to other people

1172
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,800
and they will think, thank God,
it's not me.

1173
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,880
But you should not be OK with it
because it will be you at some

1174
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,160
point.
Exactly.

1175
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,160
Or it might be.
Do you get what I mean?

1176
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,680
You're right.
OK, so a problem for one teacher

1177
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,080
is a problem for another
teacher.

1178
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,000
OK.
And the other thing, because a

1179
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:53,760
lot of these things stem from
workload, I believe, OK, the

1180
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,040
one, the question that we should
always ask is how does this

1181
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:01,960
impact the kids?
OK, does this impact the how

1182
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,720
does this impact the students?
Does it impact their progress?

1183
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:07,880
Explain to me the impact and
that that's actually a good test

1184
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:13,520
for toxicity because a toxic
leader is going to make a Moody

1185
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,200
face and look at you as if how
dare you ask that question.

1186
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,560
Whereas a good leader is going
to say they, you won't even have

1187
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,880
to ask them because they will
tell you when they introduce

1188
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,440
that initiative.
But but normalise things like

1189
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,320
that.
So the union asking questions

1190
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,160
because it's if you're the one
person acting like if you're the

1191
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,960
only person kicking off, then
you end up with a target on your

1192
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,360
head, right?
Because they'll just come after

1193
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,680
you then, right.
So it's all about everybody

1194
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,440
doing it.
Yeah, Collective.

1195
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,480
Yeah, I mean, I've got a, I do
have like 4 chapters on this.

1196
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,080
I've only given you a couple so.
No, we we can plug the book.

1197
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,360
Omar, you.
Know what I actually I actually

1198
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,960
never plugged this book.
No, but I've not seen it, I'll

1199
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,480
be honest.
With you, no, I never.

1200
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,000
It's if you look on my Twitter
bio, it's there.

1201
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,120
The cover of it is there, but I
never tweet about it.

1202
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,160
I never do anything for the
reason being I don't want to

1203
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,360
come across negative because I'm
not sure really.

1204
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,600
Honestly, I'm not negative but
but you.

1205
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:14,240
You embed humour, like we said
earlier, This is why I love your

1206
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:16,960
account because it gets to the
crux of things.

1207
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,320
And I finished the tweet
laughing and I'm just like,

1208
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,160
that's that's what I'm aiming to
do that me and Hayden worry

1209
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,520
sometimes that we're too
negative and people will say no,

1210
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,640
no, you're just realistic.
And I'm just like, Oh yeah, I

1211
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,440
know, but but the.
Problem is negativity and

1212
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,360
realism have been merged into
this very close concept in

1213
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,440
teaching and it's like, oh, it's
so no toxic the culture that the

1214
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,640
culture itself is like, hey, if
you speak bad about the bad

1215
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:42,240
stuff that we do, you're.
Negative.

1216
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:43,760
This is it, isn't it?
It's.

1217
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:45,960
Like, no, that's a really good
point.

1218
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,080
What?
You're talking about it's like,

1219
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,880
no, I'm just, this is terrible
for everyone.

1220
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,720
Why is anyone arguing against
this?

1221
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:53,320
This is, you know, that question
I asked you 10 minutes ago about

1222
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:54,920
the other teachers.
This is what I mean.

1223
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,040
I'm like, look at them.
And you know, I experience this

1224
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,880
all the time, every day and
people we talk to on the podcast

1225
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,680
and I look at my fellow teachers
who I respect and I think.

1226
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,560
Are amazing.
Teachers, aren't you feeling

1227
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,640
like I am feeling I, You know,
sometimes I feel like I'm really

1228
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,440
like losing.
It's just an uphill battle.

1229
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,040
And that collective thing comes
in, doesn't it?

1230
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,600
Exactly, you know, and I just, I
just want to convince other

1231
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,120
people and, and what they end up
doing is they go, Nah, you're

1232
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,080
just that negative teacher.
You're just that negative Nancy

1233
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:21,760
teacher.
And you get tarnished into that

1234
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,440
pile of, Oh no, they're the crap
teachers that we don't listen to

1235
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,320
because they're really negative.
And it's like, no, I'm not.

1236
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,320
I really love teaching and and I
try to do this job really well,

1237
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,800
but I'm also trying to tell you
to like stop being a pushover

1238
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,120
and say no to some stuff.
Otherwise nothing would change.

1239
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,560
I find that battle is
exhausting.

1240
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,160
It is.
It is I that's the one skill I

1241
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,000
want to master, is maintaining
the balance between those two,

1242
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:47,800
being positive, but at the same
time not being afraid to say

1243
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,000
hang on a second, this is a
problem where we need to do

1244
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,280
something about it.
There's something I guess we can

1245
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,840
finish on is something that I
think all three of us are again,

1246
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:58,520
really passionate about.
And if we're looking at things

1247
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,960
that join us together despite
being secondary or primary, it

1248
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,640
is that positivity and that
passion for the job.

1249
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,120
And the passion, I guess when I
say the job, what I mean is the

1250
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,600
passion for the children.
And this idea of This is why we

1251
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,840
love it and it kind of
encapsulates itself and this

1252
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:15,240
idea of building relationships,
right?

1253
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,440
And I know again, you've written
another book about building

1254
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,320
relationships.
And for me, I think about what's

1255
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,680
my number one job when I go into
a classroom with a new class.

1256
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,080
And I think it's to build
relationships that are strong,

1257
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,000
safe.
The children trust me, I trust

1258
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,440
them.
We work really hard.

1259
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,880
And I think everything stems
from a good relationship.

1260
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,880
And I want to throw it over to
you and say, well, in general,

1261
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,320
how important are relationships
in school, not just from the

1262
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,960
teacher and the class, but the
teacher and the colleague, the

1263
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,240
teacher and the and the SLT.
What What role do relationships

1264
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:49,560
have in school in making people
better teachers?

1265
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:55,360
Teaching is a job in which there
is a lot of resistance, OK?

1266
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:00,080
And in order to counter that,
you need force, right?

1267
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:05,400
And it's your colleagues that
are going to help you get that,

1268
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,840
OK.
So you need people that you can

1269
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,280
depend upon and you need your
work atmosphere to be a fun

1270
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:16,040
place to be, right?
So I do believe teacher, teacher

1271
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:17,680
relationships are very
important.

1272
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,800
I've known people to stay at
schools which are difficult,

1273
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,480
they don't have a good, a high
Ofsted rating, they're

1274
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,320
constantly being scrutinised,
but they stay there because of

1275
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,200
the team, because they've got
the right people around them to

1276
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,320
get the job done, You know.
And I, and I think it is as

1277
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,440
important to kind of foster the
teacher teacher relationship as

1278
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,800
much as it is as it is what you
said, the teacher student

1279
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,240
relationship.
And I think the teacher, teacher

1280
00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:45,440
relationships, you don't
actually have to do that much.

1281
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,920
It's more about what not to do.
Oh, OK.

1282
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:50,960
I think it's more about what not
to do.

1283
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,640
What would you not do?
So in my experience, what

1284
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:55,200
people, there's three kinds of
people.

1285
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:59,840
People don't like.
OK, the busy body, the martyr.

1286
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:02,400
And there you go.
There you go.

1287
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:03,040
See.
And.

1288
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:08,600
And the mood Hoover.
OK, so those are the three that

1289
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,000
you don't want to be.
Yeah.

1290
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,120
OK, So the mood Hoover.
You could imagine.

1291
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:16,360
Now here's the thing, you're not
a mood Hoover just because you

1292
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,400
you're moaning about something
one day.

1293
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,000
The mood Hoover is the one that
it's literally anything and

1294
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,920
everything.
And you know that person when

1295
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,760
you see them, any listener who's
listening right now has got

1296
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,280
somebody in their mind right
now.

1297
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,480
It's not everybody but it, but
it will be one or two people.

1298
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,680
Oh my God, it's like, you know,
when they're walking past, you

1299
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,080
go the long way round so you
don't pump into them so they'll

1300
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:38,360
stop you and.
Bend your back.

1301
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,560
And something.
I've seen the bloody clouds

1302
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,320
today.
Yes, I've seen the clouds.

1303
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,440
Yeah, no, absolutely.
So don't.

1304
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,880
Don't it'll be a mood Hoover and
also the busy body.

1305
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,880
The people who just get involved
just poke in their business.

1306
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,520
All a kid in your class said
they didn't understand

1307
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,760
photosynthesis to me.
Do you want to go back and teach

1308
00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,120
it to them?
Sorry what?

1309
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,360
We don't even we don't even
share the class.

1310
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,240
You're literally going by gossip
from another student from a

1311
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,600
student to you.
I'm thinking of people meeting.

1312
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:09,800
You've got so many busy bodies,
right?

1313
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,400
And I think the hallmark of a
busy body is that they offer

1314
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,720
unsolicited advice
condescendingly, in a way that

1315
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:24,960
suggests that they know more.
OK, so that's what you don't

1316
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,360
want to do because that's what
again, I do genuinely believe

1317
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,560
it's about more, more about what
not to do.

1318
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,000
Can I tell, can I tell up a
quick story on Busy body because

1319
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,680
I heard a story.
I want to hear it it.

1320
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,520
Was my friend OK?
My friend taught to me.

1321
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:41,800
My friend's been a teacher for I
would say 1314 years now.

1322
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,560
And they went on maternity leave
and they came back recently and

1323
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,880
they came back part time and in
that time when they were on

1324
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,000
maternity leave, someone joined
their school.

1325
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,000
So someone new came in.
Yeah.

1326
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,360
And they came back off maternity
leave and it was just, I think

1327
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,280
their second week back and this
new person walked in and didn't

1328
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:04,880
introduce themselves but simply
came in and said, oh, do you

1329
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,960
need anything explained to you
or are you feeling OK at the

1330
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,880
minute?
This person wasn't in their year

1331
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,040
group, wasn't their line
manager, was nothing to do with

1332
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,400
them, came in and said, this
person's been working at this

1333
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:15,640
school for about 8 years, by the
way.

1334
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:17,040
So do you need anything
explained?

1335
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,320
Are you OK coming back?
And she was like, what are you

1336
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:20,600
like?
Yeah.

1337
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:22,800
What's giving you the impression
that I don't know what I'm

1338
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:24,080
doing?
Yeah, I couldn't believe what

1339
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:25,480
she was hearing.
And I was just like that.

1340
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,200
What do you do with that kind of
person?

1341
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,880
And that is what you're saying,
that you can't have a

1342
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,840
relationship with that person,
then I don't think you can have

1343
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:32,840
a serious relationship with
them.

1344
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:36,560
No, I think the general rule is
mind your own business.

1345
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,240
Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying
don't be supportive, etcetera.

1346
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,320
I'm saying like this bit does
not concern me, so I'm not going

1347
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,440
to get involved, you know?
Especially from a strange power,

1348
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,280
like a power imbalance that
you're trying to establish it.

1349
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,120
Yeah, that's true.
I know something more than you

1350
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,080
do, and I'm going to make sure
you know that by asking.

1351
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:52,320
You do.
Do you need me to do something

1352
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:53,520
for you?
It's just unsolicited like.

1353
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:55,240
You said there's no.
Reason to do that.

1354
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,320
But the master one, the other
one you mentioned that, that

1355
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,880
pricked my ears up.
What?

1356
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:02,760
What's your understanding of
that term?

1357
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,120
OK, yeah, I'll let Hayden talk
about because Hayden talks about

1358
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,400
martyrs a lot more.
I'll very briefly just say for

1359
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,960
me, a martyr is someone who
quite enjoys things being bad

1360
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,840
almost and and want to make the
thing out of it as if to say

1361
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,720
wearing it as a badge because
they've managed to do it kind of

1362
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:20,000
thing.
But I, I'll let Hayden talk

1363
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,760
about.
It Yeah, in a way, I guess to

1364
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:26,880
me, it's, it's just people who
who genuinely believe that the

1365
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,560
more you Marty yourself, the
like it becomes with status.

1366
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,520
You're you're a better, more
renowned teacher if you

1367
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,400
sacrificed your weekend.
Yeah, exactly.

1368
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,880
And if you didn't sacrifice your
weekend, you are automatically

1369
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,600
not as good, you know, and and
it goes back to your example

1370
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:43,720
made me think of this ages ago.
I was thinking of martyrdom when

1371
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,520
you said you've got teachers who
aren't doing a good job in the

1372
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,080
classroom, but they're martyring
themselves at the weekend.

1373
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:52,680
Look how good I am versus
teachers yourself, who's putting

1374
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,680
lots of effort into teaching in
the classroom and then not doing

1375
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,040
a Saturday and the idea that
you're a worst teacher because

1376
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:01,360
you didn't master yourself.
It's that status imbalance and

1377
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,480
and martyrdom.
It is so rife in primary

1378
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:05,520
schools.
I'm sure it isn't secondary

1379
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,000
schools and it kills me.
And honestly, and this was

1380
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:12,440
almost back in the day, it was
almost seen as a good thing.

1381
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,200
Yeah, it.
Was Yeah, well, no, this is how

1382
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:17,200
it was.
Because I remember it's like I

1383
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:18,920
spent two hours marking books
last night.

1384
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,160
It took ages.
Person next to me, I spend 8

1385
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:24,200
hours every Saturday marking
books.

1386
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,680
I was like, OK, how how do you
want me to react to that?

1387
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:28,560
Yeah, yeah.
OK.

1388
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:30,760
So I'm inferior to you then
because you spent 8?

1389
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:32,160
Sorry.
Let me bow down to you.

1390
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:33,560
Sorry.
What we should be trying to

1391
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,760
normalise is what you wasted
your Saturday then.

1392
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,120
Yes, exactly you.
Wasted your Saturday?

1393
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,760
No, I spent time with my family
and friends and that doesn't

1394
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,040
make me a bad teacher.
You wasted your Saturday.

1395
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:44,960
That's what we should we we
should, we should normalise.

1396
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:46,920
Yeah.
No one wants to hear that, man.

1397
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:48,440
I mean, that's don't be a
master, you know?

1398
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,880
In our in our last episode, we
kind of talked about this a bit

1399
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:55,080
and and just said how it also
sets a bar, martyrdom sets a

1400
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,240
bar, whether you like to think
it or not, subliminally,

1401
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,680
passively, maybe even actively,
if enough people are doing it in

1402
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:02,000
the culture of the school and
we're all mastering ourselves.

1403
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,040
This is the expectation.
We all give up our Saturdays now

1404
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,040
to do it, to run a group.
OK, we all do this.

1405
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,600
And it's the expectation now.
And that's why I also agree very

1406
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:11,360
passionately with you that it
needs to stop.

1407
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,760
We need to start calling it out
and saying, Oh, you're actually

1408
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:15,760
just being, this is stupid.
Like, I'm not going to

1409
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:19,120
congratulate you or reward you
in any way for thinking that it

1410
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:23,120
was sensible to to do this.
Like, and, and Dylan, you know,

1411
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:24,520
challenged me.
Well, not challenged me.

1412
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:26,360
But you were playing devil's
advocate and said like, oh, are

1413
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,640
we are we telling people that
they shouldn't go above and

1414
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:30,920
beyond?
And I was kind of saying, yeah,

1415
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,840
in a way, go above and beyond in
the way you do your job, in the

1416
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:38,080
constraints of the job.
But going above and beyond isn't

1417
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,400
is not.
I've done 8 hours of marking,

1418
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,280
you've done 2.
It was Emma Kell.

1419
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,760
I I couldn't agree more.
It was Emma Kell, I believe,

1420
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:46,160
that said this.
Yeah, it was.

1421
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:50,560
It was Emma Kell on Twitter.
But there is a such thing as

1422
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,280
good enough.
Embrace good enough.

1423
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,960
Do you get what I mean?
Above and beyond is something

1424
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:57,760
else.
But there is a there is a point

1425
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:59,000
which is actually this is good
enough.

1426
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,200
You know what I mean?
Because our job is a bottomless

1427
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:02,680
pit.
You can't just keep making.

1428
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,480
You can spend.
We could all after this call.

1429
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,080
Now we can make our lessons
better for tomorrow.

1430
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:10,880
Yeah, all right.
But that would be a stupid thing

1431
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:12,760
to do, wouldn't it?
Because it's half nine at night.

1432
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:13,960
We're about to.
You know what I mean?

1433
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:16,120
Yeah, don't agree.
Our lessons are good enough

1434
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:17,200
then, aren't they?
Yeah, right.

1435
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,720
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, no, you're absolutely

1436
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:20,840
right.
Absolutely.

1437
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,400
Omar, I just wanted to say
we've, I feel like we've had a

1438
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,480
long ranging chat here.
I want to say thank you so much

1439
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,560
for your time.
And last plug, Omar, I want you

1440
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:31,720
to just tell people where they
can listen to your podcast, what

1441
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,880
it's called and your books.
Because if guys, if you aren't

1442
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,880
following Omar, you need to,
it's going to it's.

1443
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,160
Going to change the perspective.
You're too kind.

1444
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:40,760
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Dylan and

1445
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:42,120
Hayden.
Honestly, it's been such a

1446
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,960
pleasure to be on your podcast.
OK, so my first book, the

1447
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:46,840
unofficial teacher's Manual,
what they don't teach you in

1448
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,600
training.
My second book, Teaching for

1449
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:53,760
realists, making the education
system work for you, bad school

1450
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,760
leadership and what to do about
it and building relationships in

1451
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:58,440
schools.
All of them can be found on

1452
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,520
Amazon podcast, The Unofficial
Teacher's Manual.

1453
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:04,160
You can find that on Spotify and
Apple Podcasts, and you can

1454
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:08,520
follow me on X at Unofficial OA
and on Insta The Unofficial

1455
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,320
Teacher's Manual, and Facebook
The Unofficial Teacher's Manual.

1456
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:13,480
Hey, there we go.
You've done that before.

1457
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:14,680
Yeah.
That was brilliant.

1458
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:16,960
We'll link everything in the bio
down below.

1459
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,960
So books podcast, get involved.
Omar, again, thank you so much.

1460
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:22,960
You're absolutely.
You're welcome.

1461
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:27,120
You're welcome.
Okay, guys, thank you for

1462
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:28,760
listening this far.
If you have got to the end of

1463
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,480
the episode, I'm gonna ask you
please to leave us a review on

1464
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,000
wherever you're listening to
your podcast.

1465
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:36,440
Follow us on Instagram that
teach to repeat podcast and I'll

1466
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,360
see you again next week.
And so Hayden, don't know, I'm

1467
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,280
just saying me, you'll see.
I am also here.

1468
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,320
Yeah, well, bye everyone.
I guess doesn't really count so

1469
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:44,000
see you next time.