Ep 83: A Teacher's Guide To Prioritising: Which Tasks Can We Bin Off?

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach

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Sleep Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
Can I just reference what you

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said seconds before we start
this podcast?

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I've always gotten.
Hilarious to anyone who knows

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Hayden, he just sat there,
looked at himself in the camera.

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Oh, my hair is too long.
It's too long.

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It's about 3 millimetres long,
yes. 3 millimetres too long, my

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son, it's too long.
I don't like it.

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So if look OK, if you're
listening, this is I'm sorry.

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If you're listening always
cracks me up.

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On the podcast rather than
watching as well.

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Look, I don't like it because it
really highlights how bold I am.

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Yeah, as opposed to it being not
there, which would which would

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make you look less bold.
Yeah, it does.

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It doesn't away because all the
sides grow out normally, right,

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OK.
And the top doesn't grow right.

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So the longer it gets, the more
like you can look at that.

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So you're saying if you shave
it, Yeah, you're saying that

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you're trying to trick some
people into thinking it might be

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a choice.
Yeah, they're like, oh, that

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guy, he's edgy, he's edgy.
He's just doing that for like a

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fashion thing.
No one thinks that.

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They do.
No, because they look at my

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clothing.
They think fashion, fashion

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icon, for a start.
They think.

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And then they look at my hair
and go, he's brave, isn't he?

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Because a lot of men wouldn't do
that.

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A lot of men.
Dylan is obviously not brave.

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He's, you know, he loves it.
Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.
Whereas.

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Hayden, he just kind of goes.
It doesn't.

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He pushes it, pushes those
boundaries.

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He's a maverick.
He really is.

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That is what I think.
How was your half term?

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Please explain.
Oh no, sorry, sorry.

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I thought Hayden had been on
half term because he's been off

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school all week.
He's not been in, weirdly

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enough, absolutely fine after he
was meant to be in work, and

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absolutely fine before, it just
happened to be the exact amount

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of time he was due to be working
at school.

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Oh, I feel poorly.
I did feel poorly, actually.

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It's funny that, isn't it, that
you do tend to feel all right

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after a while.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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After the exact while of when
the work was due to be done,

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not.
Quite.

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It's just precisely.
How was your half term anyway?

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Listen, it wasn't half term.
I was at home horribly,

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horribly.
I'll Dylan, I wasn't having a

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good time.
No, no, no, no, no, no.

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You realised you'd done six
weeks.

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You thought that's my term.
I'm done.

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I'm clocking out six weeks and
out.

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See you.
Later.

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I need a break.
Wait till you see what illness

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I've got next week.
I'm not doing more than six

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weeks.
Well, you've got a nice one week

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tonne coming up before you get
another half tonne break,

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literally.
But yeah, so you were really,

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you were really bad.
I mean, I was honestly, honestly

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horrendous.
Possibly.

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I've never had a stomach bug
like it.

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So yeah, there's some stuff
going around at the moment.

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I've heard of a lot of a lot of
stories from people also having

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stomach bugs in the last few
days.

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Classic British conversation,
isn't it?

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Have you, have you heard what's
been going around?

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Yeah, the old bug.
Or you can't.

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What happens is you tell
someone, yeah, oh, I can't do

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that.
I've got a bug.

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Oh, I had that last week.
Yeah, I had that last week.

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You know Jill?
Jill who you saw the other week?

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Yeah.
Her partner's got it.

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Yeah, She's.
He's got the bug.

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He.
Got worse than you as well.

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It's always worse.
It's always worse.

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I was like, yeah, I've been off
for two days.

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I was off for three days last.
Week you into Tenerife.

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I've been to Elevenerife, so I
don't.

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Know you know.
Such a terrible dad joke

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honestly.
I think we've had that joke

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before this podcast.
We I think it.

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Was me as well the.
Customers won't remember.

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So yeah, not well, not been, not
had a great week to be honest,

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if you not felt very well.
Nice to be back here though,

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feeling all right.
Hopefully I've still got the bug

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and then I can share it with
you.

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I.
Really hope that's not the case,

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you seem fine to me as I won't
be.

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Here, I feel a lot better now.
How are you?

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I'm good, I'm fine.
This week in school, we had an

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afternoon lesson where we made
pizza.

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I absolutely loved it.
And I know it would sound like a

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broken record, but that's
honestly the part of the job

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that I loved so much.
The kids were so excited.

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They weren't just sat there
finding out a sheet.

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You know, Don't get me wrong, I
know, kid, we know.

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We've got to do work sometimes,
and work can be boring because

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you've just got to learn stuff
and write stuff down.

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We try and make it as engaging
as possible, obviously, but you

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can't make cooking not fun.
I know it's so good.

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We had the flour out.
We were making dough with your.

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I've done it before.
Oh really?

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I've made it not fun before.
How have you managed that?

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That's like, that's a skill.
Yeah.

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Because how can you make cooking
in a classroom?

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Not fun because I wigged out
that we didn't have enough

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equipment.
So I was like anyway I can cook

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this pasta with them is I cook
it all the front and they want.

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OK, so you made cooking not fun
by making them not cook.

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Yeah, they watched me cook it.
They did cook other stuff but

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there was one part where I was
like, I just can't deal with

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them having like boiling water
and around.

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I'm cooking the pasta in a
massive tub at the front.

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You can come have a look at the
pastor if you want.

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That's good.
So boring anyway, sorry.

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No, I get the safety thing.
I do get all that, but like

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with, you know, like help and
stuff, you need more adult help.

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That's that's the tricky thing
is getting adults in the room

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because you just need the ratios
and stuff.

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But with with pizza, it was
literally just flour, salt,

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yoghurt, mix it up, make a
dough, put some tomato puree on.

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There were no like sharp
utensils or anything.

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Put some cheese on the top.
And then as it, as it was being

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cooked, we filled out a little
form and then they tasted it and

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they said, well, it was good.
And honestly, you know when you

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do cooking and anyone who's done
cooking in their primary school,

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it's a really nice process.
It's fun, but quite often at the

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end it's not great what they've
made.

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Like it's a bit, oh God, it's
not, it's not fantastic.

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Same with DT, really nice
process, might get stressful

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after a bit and by the end
you've got something which

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doesn't even work and looks
nothing like that picture.

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But with this, the pizzas look
banging.

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They were so good and it got
cooked.

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It got cooked, obviously brought
in, cut into quarters because

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they were doing it in groups,
making them together.

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Everyone did some mixing.
They all absolutely buzzing and

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they all smashed the pizza like
they just ate all.

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They're like, this is the best
pizza I've ever tasted before.

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You make it yourself.
Unbelievable.

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And now, but those kids, there's
soda kids in there who don't

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even honestly probably don't get
a cooked meal every night.

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I don't know, like I can't make
those assumptions, but I guess

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sometimes they don't and they've
never cooked before and they

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don't really know what goes into
their food.

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We talked about pizza you can
buy in a shop, just it's just a

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pizza.
Like, what do you think this is?

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And then they had the flower in
front of them and for them to

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see that process again, I've
said this line a million times.

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That's what primary school
should be about.

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That is so power.
They will remember that in year

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789.
If they say, what did you do in

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year 4?
They're like, well, I remember

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we were on that trip and we
cooked pizza.

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Wow, that was so cool.
You know what the Deans blocks

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remember the Deans blocks?
No, they probably would, but but

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it's not gonna come to their
mind, is it?

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When they think about what fun
thing happening before they

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might remember playing with them
and realistically, right,

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reading Roman numerals or
cooking a pizza.

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What is actually going to help
them more as they grow up and,

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you know, understand the world
and have to function as an

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according to Michael Gove.
Depends if the ovens got Roman

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numerals is the timer or not.
Of course it hasn't.

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Yeah, exactly.
No, that sounds really.

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Cool.
Yeah, that was great.

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Did.
It make you because obviously

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you spent hundreds and hundreds
of pounds recently on a on a

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lovely pizza oven for your
birthday.

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No, no, no.
Did it make you go?

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It was my present.
It was your present.

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No, it didn't, because in all
seriousness, the pizzas didn't

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look fantastic, but they loved
it because they made it.

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I actually realised we were
cooking obviously pizza.

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So I sent myself some pictures
of the pizzas we made, you and I

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Oh, yeah, yeah.
And I put them on the board on

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the on the screen.
I said I've got a pizza oven at

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home.
And traditionally it's a really

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hot oven.
We put them in, cooks them in

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like 2 or 3 minutes.
Yeah.

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And all the dough is homemade,
etcetera.

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And I showed them my pizza in
your pizza.

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Yeah.
So my pizza was the dough,

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obviously the base tomato sauce
that we made.

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And I just had ham and
mozzarella on mine.

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Yeah.
And then we had your one and

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yours was packed with toppings.
Honestly, it had Peppers,

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onions, chicken, sweet corn,
bacon, bacon as well.

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Yeah.
And then one of the kids put the

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hand up goes where's his cheese?
And I was like, kids, I've got

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I've got something.
I've got something to tell you.

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Mr Stevens doesn't like cheese.
And honestly, all of the buttu

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who were like, yeah, I agree
with him, Yeah, fair enough.

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The rest of them like.
What pizza had cheese on the

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top?
Oh my gosh.

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Listen, listen, his is packed
with flavour.

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Yeah, it's not got cheese, but
it's packed.

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Let's do a vote.
Let's do a vote.

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Whose pizza would you rather
eat?

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Right.
Who votes from my pizza?

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Everyone.
Don't worry kids.

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Just don't tell Mister.
The story of my life is you

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can't have cheese on a bit.
Yes, I can have a cheese on.

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I can't have no cheese on my
pizza.

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Oh, you can have cheese.
I can't have no cheese on my

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pizza.
I'd be pretty interested how

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many people out there genuinely
get in touch if you don't like

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cheese.
Not if you're intolerant, that's

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different obviously, but if you
can have cheese and don't like

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it, I reckon there's fewer than
five people listening.

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I I find it fascinating.
In all seriousness, cheese is a

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very like acquired taste in my
obviously in my opinion.

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It's obviously not though, is
it?

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I think clearly not.
That's why I find it so strange,

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right?
Because to me it's such a strong

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flavour of like, it is very
specific.

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Nothing else tastes like it
where I'm like, surely this is

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not like so bland enough and so
natural.

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That.
Everyone likes it.

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It's like, OK, I'd understand if
everyone liked bananas.

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What bananas are so specific,
but they're really natural.

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Like they're just like a they're
just a natural.

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Cheese is not a natural food.
Is it to?

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Be honest.
What do you mean it's not

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natural?
You're going to pick some cheese

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00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:20,480
for free?
Am I?

228
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,720
No, it's not.
It's not.

229
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,760
Cavemen weren't eating cheese,
were they?

230
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,480
So like I.
So to me it makes more sense

231
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,600
that you.
Could toast.

232
00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:34,400
They weren't eating bread.
See what they were eating though

233
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:35,919
mate.
Bananas, and loads of people

234
00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:37,679
don't like bananas.
Right.

235
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:44,320
Bananas and cheese both have
like a very unique taste and the

236
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,400
idea that everyone likes cheese
is so weird to me because it's

237
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,360
just rank.
You can't.

238
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,480
You can't like mess with this
this logic.

239
00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:58,720
It's your dietary standards if
the caveman ate it or not.

240
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,240
I've seen your chocolate
covered.

241
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,240
Yeah, they weren't eating Dairy
Milk bars.

242
00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,800
By the show, it's not about
that, it's just about it's the

243
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,440
logic of like, I can't
understand.

244
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,440
I can't fathom why cheese is so
universally like like when every

245
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,200
other food has way like way more
people dislike basically every

246
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,320
other food, but for some reason
everyone loves cheese and I'm

247
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,840
like it's equally as like got a
tangy taste as every other food

248
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,080
in the world.
Like, it's not like it's, it's

249
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,560
so vanilla that you couldn't
possibly not like it because it

250
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,600
didn't.
Taste anything like cauliflower.

251
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,720
OK, I'm going to let you have
your moment and what I'm going

252
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,240
to say is please get in touch
without anything to say to hey

253
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,240
Jesus, right to me, that was
just absolutely brilliant.

254
00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,560
OK, I've got one one more story.
It's a good story.

255
00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:42,320
It's a nice feel good story
because again, on the podcast we

256
00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,000
get quite a few messages from
people saying nice one, talking

257
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,880
out about this thing.
You're very realistic, you're

258
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,040
very honest.
Appreciate that, but it's just

259
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:51,520
not something that happens in my
school.

260
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,360
I just don't feel confident
enough or that, you know, SLT

261
00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,880
have such a a charge on the
score, control over the score

262
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,480
and all the rest of my staff
team kind of don't get on board

263
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:02,760
if we want to challenge
something.

264
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:03,920
Right, you're talking about
challenging.

265
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,200
Yes, sorry.
Yeah, I'm talking about, you

266
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,520
talk about, you know, standing
up for yourself and saying yes

267
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,600
or no and and like which.
We talk about a lot on this,

268
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:11,720
yeah.
Yeah, and it's hard for some

269
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,080
people, and that's completely
acceptable.

270
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,760
And it's not on you.
It's on the score a lot of the

271
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,320
time, but I I tell a story from
our school which is fantastic

272
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,840
with this really, really good
and really honestly makes the

273
00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,280
teachers feel heard and their
opinions really important I feel

274
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,080
a lot of the time and it kind of
empowers me to say this kind of

275
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,320
stuff and challenge makes it
sound negative, but just discuss

276
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,000
I would say.
Sorry, I've been away for three

277
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:32,360
days.
What?

278
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,120
What have you been getting up?
To So basically we're, we're,

279
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,080
we're changing how we're
teaching English at the minute,

280
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,480
lots of stuff going on with how
we deliver reading and writing,

281
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,320
etcetera.
And a big thing that came up

282
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,680
from staff was can we get some
training, please?

283
00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:46,560
And you're involved in this
process as well beforehand.

284
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,120
And it's the whole idea of, you
know, we are professionals, We

285
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,760
do understand training is really
important.

286
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,120
We want it and, and the people
in charge, our SLT want to give

287
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,600
it to us as well.
We're on the same page.

288
00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,600
So we've managed to secure some
training for a twilight that

289
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,440
we've got next term.
Fantastic.

290
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,240
Going to be really helpful.
Everyone's keen for that.

291
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,160
And there's like follow up
booster training available, but

292
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,000
that's like more specific to
your year group and the text

293
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,240
you're studying.
And you can get school.

294
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,560
No, exactly.
You can get help specifically to

295
00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:13,480
what you're going to be teaching
in your year group with this

296
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,240
expert.
And realistically, because it's

297
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,440
all spread out and it's going to
be like individual workshops for

298
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,040
about 45 minutes for an hour of
people, it doesn't, it doesn't

299
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,360
make sense to have a staff
meeting for that because a staff

300
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:25,840
meeting is the whole school in
one place for one hour.

301
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,960
Yeah, it doesn't work.
So the only time realistically

302
00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,240
our SLT were saying that we
could do it is during our PPA,

303
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,040
because then it can be specific
to our days.

304
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,720
But straight away our SLT were
saying but we we understand and

305
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,440
don't want to direct your PPA at
all.

306
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,080
Does anyone have any ideas?
You know, what about this as a

307
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,200
solution?
What about that?

308
00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:43,920
Would people be OK with
sacrificing some of their PPA?

309
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,760
Let us know.
Very open, again, not not like.

310
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,880
You are sacrificing your PPA.
Exactly.

311
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,480
It was very open because people
want this training.

312
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,600
Yeah, And a lot of people will
probably be like, yes, sure, put

313
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,600
it in PPA.
I'd be planning anyway.

314
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:55,600
This is going to help my
planning.

315
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,400
But some people would equally be
like, oh, I don't want to do

316
00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:59,560
that, but I'm not going to say
anything, right?

317
00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:00,520
And that's the kind of people
with.

318
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,400
Yeah, sure.
And we're in an open environment

319
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,920
where I felt like I could reply
because it was an open thread to

320
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,920
everyone.
And I just said thank you for

321
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,000
organising this training.
I really look forward to it

322
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,600
because I am genuinely really
looking forward to it.

323
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,720
I think the booster thing would
be really helpful specifically

324
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,400
to Year 4.
How about this as a solution.

325
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:18,680
And it was just banded about
that.

326
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,280
Keep it in PPA and we know and
you understand, and we all get

327
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,920
we shouldn't really do that, but
that's when the training is

328
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,520
going to be.
How about a compromise where

329
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,720
maybe the week that we have that
or a one week in the term,

330
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,440
instead of a staff meeting, we
just get some free time back.

331
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:36,880
And although it might not be
drawing your PPA and your PPA

332
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,920
might be broken up for some
reason, well, at least you're

333
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,040
getting that time back somewhere
else.

334
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,280
And instead of having a staff
meeting, what you would have

335
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,160
done in PPA, you can just shift
things around.

336
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,640
And I thought that to me, that
whole process and SRT, by the

337
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,520
way, we're like, I don't know
why I didn't think of this.

338
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,920
Let's do that.
Fantastic.

339
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:51,600
Yeah.
Banging.

340
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,440
Yeah.
And that to me was the ultimate

341
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,600
example of how a professional
school with grown up people who

342
00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,960
all appreciate each others time
and know it's a hard job but

343
00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:03,440
still want to have development
and get better at things, can

344
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,960
just get together and sort
something out.

345
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,680
Yeah, definitely.
And I thought people could

346
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,720
hopefully listen to that and
take something out of it.

347
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,320
You mean, you know, you've been
involved in this?

348
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,160
What are your thoughts?
I think, I think you said you

349
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:13,920
kind of highlighted one word,
compromise.

350
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,280
I think that idea of compromise
is really important and probably

351
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,360
really important for us to talk
about because I think a lot of

352
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,960
the time we get very passionate
on this podcast and we're in our

353
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,080
own little echo chamber.
And we will talk about standing

354
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,680
up for yourself, saying no to
these things.

355
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,600
And actually there is that
middle ground of sometimes you

356
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,680
can both say no to something and
also come up with a solution

357
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,040
that best fits everybody.
So that in that situation, it

358
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,400
would have been, it would have
been really easy.

359
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,320
And I think I would have cringed
a bit if you had said so.

360
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,080
Yeah, they said we we can do it
PPA.

361
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,800
So I just said absolutely not.
PPA is our sacred time, don't

362
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:42,240
you know?
And.

363
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:44,560
And then ended it and.
Then ended it there.

364
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,840
And I think a lot of people
might do that, like, and I worry

365
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,120
that we give that impression
sometimes.

366
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,520
And I think it's really
important to say that there is

367
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,880
also just lots of scope for,
yeah, OK, this kind of breaks

368
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,640
the rules.
So let's break the rules in the

369
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,040
other way to like benefit us as
well.

370
00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,760
And then we can all, just as
long as we're happy with it, we

371
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,360
can be like, OK, that's cool.
Yeah.

372
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,000
It's not quite as good as if I
just had my regular PPA time

373
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,840
where I maybe have planned all
these things that I always do

374
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,000
that I can only do in that time.
But one, is it happening all the

375
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:09,760
time?
No.

376
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,360
Are the SLT, SLT being toxic
about it?

377
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,280
No, Like you can almost tick off
things in your head to be like,

378
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,200
is this just acceptable as a
compromise though?

379
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,280
And I think in your situation,
absolutely acceptable because we

380
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,400
want that training.
We need that training and we

381
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,400
still get our PPA, just in a
different format this one time.

382
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,640
If, if after this, right, our
SLT, which they won't, if let's

383
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,960
say they jumped on this and
like, ah, right, they let us do

384
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,320
this, let's do this like 3 or 4
* a term.

385
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,920
We'll just keep reorganising as
long as we give them that PPA

386
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,040
somewhere else, we can just
organise what we want in that in

387
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,960
that time.
Then I think it'd be like, Nope,

388
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,520
now you're taking the MIT.
Now we are going to say that

389
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,360
compromise isn't really
benefiting us anymore.

390
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:48,920
And actually, no, we're not
going to do that.

391
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,600
So there, you know, there's just
a boundary, there's this middle

392
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,280
scope which I think you found
quite nicely.

393
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,160
Be there.
I'm glad you shared that story.

394
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,960
Yeah, no, it's just being
professional, isn't it?

395
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,320
Like you don't just say no for
the sake of it.

396
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,240
We always say say no.
It's true.

397
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,360
But how much more powerful is
saying no when you say but after

398
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,600
no, but, and you continue,
right.

399
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,200
So we're going to play Jingle.
You've got a little game you put

400
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,640
together and we put a bunch of
questions out to people for AQ

401
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,240
and A, and one question really
piqued my interest so much that

402
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,840
we're going to discuss that as
the main theme of this episode,

403
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:22,800
and then we'll finish off with
the other questions at the end.

404
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,120
How does that sound?
Sweet, Let's do it right?

405
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:28,640
Been off 4 weeks.
You've had a chance to make an

406
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,760
actual game and do something
towards this podcast.

407
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,280
So I did say to you, because I
often go to the game every now

408
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,200
and there's like, hey, do you
fancy thinking of some kind of

409
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,000
the podcast?
Do you say for the podcast

410
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,800
actually, I actually made this
Instagram following of like

411
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,840
15,000, so maybe you can do
something for that's actually.

412
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,040
That's that's a really good
impression of me.

413
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,640
You come up with a game, a
ground breaking game.

414
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,760
Never heard of this game before.
Would you rather?

415
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,000
Would you rather dot dot dot
teacher edition?

416
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,840
OK, come on in.
Yeah, so and play along at home.

417
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,840
And I tell you what, I, I, I
very much thought specifically

418
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:58,800
of you when I was seeing this
game.

419
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,960
So some of these things I think
you'll you'll be like, oh, you

420
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,320
can tell this game's been made
for me is.

421
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:03,960
This the kind of thing where you
just pick one?

422
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,880
Or is it the kind of thing where
the other one is Spanish

423
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,080
forever?
I'll give you the rules right

424
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,000
now.
So it's it's would you rather

425
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,400
both things are things you
probably would want?

426
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,760
You can only pick one.
And yes, like you said, the one

427
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,720
when you pick one, the other one
therefore can never happen.

428
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,120
You've almost got to think of
like always, like the opposite

429
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:21,400
of it.
But it's like that one

430
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,320
definitely won't happen.
And like the bad version of it

431
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,480
will happen instead.
So you can only get one of these

432
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,320
things.
All right, all right and long

433
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:28,280
answers.
You do whatever you want.

434
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,160
You can justify it.
If you don't want to justify it,

435
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,360
I might ask you whatever.
And if you really disagree with

436
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,800
me at home, let me know.
Yeah, because I do tend to go

437
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,320
hard on one way or the other,
and I'll try and be decisive.

438
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So some of them hopefully will

439
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:39,720
be difficult for you.
Here we go.

440
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,240
So number one, would you rather
you can tell this is for you?

441
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,000
All schemes of learning come
with actual lessons you can use.

442
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,760
So they're fully packed out
schemes of learning, right?

443
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,000
Or PPA is increased to 20% of
classroom time.

444
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,480
You can only have one.
The other one will never happen.

445
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,920
PPA 20% Wow, you keep rubbish
schemes.

446
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,640
Yeah, yeah, because do you know
what?

447
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,800
Even with packed out schemes,
and this is the point of when I

448
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,920
defend packed out schemes, you
do have to spend some time

449
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,920
adapting it and changing it.
And that does take time.

450
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,160
I don't think I'm just picking
up a scheme and going cool and

451
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,200
running with it.
Yeah, the power of a whole day

452
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,599
out every week, yeah, 20% of PPA
time is unbelievable in terms of

453
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,200
you could have had, you could
have that at home, then I could

454
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,520
plan at home, be much more
efficient.

455
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,880
And I'm at the point now in my
career where actually I can do

456
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,040
my planning in that time.
And I think that would be an

457
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,360
overall beneficial than the
scheme thing, although I do love

458
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:36,400
a good packed out scheme.
I know that's why I wrote that

459
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,080
on 1st thinking and all that all
getting right and.

460
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,920
I think the time for me at this
point in my career, the time is

461
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,920
invaluable.
Earlier in your career, you

462
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:44,960
could argue both ways that a
scheme that's packed is bad

463
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,080
because you can't learn how to
do it.

464
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,320
Or you could argue that it's
good because it really gives you

465
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,040
a really solid starting.
Point and you learn from it.

466
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,040
Yeah, yeah, OK, very interesting
answer Ready for the next one.

467
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,200
OK, so would you rather there is
never ever a technical hiccup

468
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,480
ever again at school and that
includes printer just.

469
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,960
Tech.
There is never a technical

470
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,760
hiccup ever again at your at
your school.

471
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,520
Life's great.
Or no lessons require worksheets

472
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:11,680
anymore.
You don't have to print any

473
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,160
worksheets, don't have to trim
any worksheets.

474
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:19,080
There's no worksheets anymore.
I would rather I, well, well,

475
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,160
OK, I'd rather no worksheets
then without to print anyway.

476
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,760
So I'd go for no worksheets
because then there's no

477
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,080
printing.
And if every now and then my

478
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,320
board doesn't work properly, I
can put up with that because

479
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,480
it's fine.
There's no worksheets.

480
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:30,920
It's all good.
I can just ad Lib stuff.

481
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,360
I like ad libbing as a teacher.
I don't know what everyone else

482
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:34,920
feels like.
Yeah, sometimes when my board

483
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,400
goes, I feel cool.
Give me a whiteboard marker and

484
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:38,640
a whiteboard pen I actually
love.

485
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,280
That nine years ago, though, I
don't know.

486
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,600
I would have been horribly
wigged out of the idea of my

487
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,480
Smarts notebooks, not seeing
them, but definitely later.

488
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,040
On yeah, 100% yeah.
Early on I was like to the team

489
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,520
with them, but I think you learn
as you go.

490
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,560
Yeah, definitely if if no
worksheets means no printing and

491
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,000
I will jump an opportunity and
no trimming.

492
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,160
I think honestly underestimate
schools that still trim because

493
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,640
some people get big books now
that are just slightly bigger

494
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,120
than a four and you can just
stick a sheet in.

495
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:07,600
I honestly think getting rid of
trimming would have a noticeably

496
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,000
transformative impact on my
day-to-day life.

497
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,800
Wow, I should have.
Just done that as the question.

498
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,560
Just no trimming.
I didn't realise it was

499
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,320
trimming's huge, so that one.
Yeah.

500
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,080
All right.
Fair play.

501
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,040
Nice one.
OK.

502
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,920
In this one, you only have to
mark once per week now for 30

503
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,800
minutes.
So very, very, very, very small

504
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,680
amount of marking time.
That's that one done.

505
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,160
You only have to mark once per
week for about 30 minutes or you

506
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:31,320
never have to plan a lesson
again.

507
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,640
It's just done.
Oh, marking, get it like marking

508
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,400
down to 30 minutes.
Because again, what has more of

509
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,760
an impact, planning or marking?
Planning does OK.

510
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,040
I'm a professional.
I like teaching.

511
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,120
I can have more of an impact
there.

512
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:43,680
I'll keep the planning time.
Sure.

513
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,600
Marking, we're going to come
onto it at some point.

514
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,360
I think later on when we talk
about one of the questions, I

515
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,560
look, I'm going to just lay my
mark down now.

516
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:53,600
We're going to more detail
later.

517
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,880
I think that you could not mark
at all and it would have a

518
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,280
minimal tiny if 0 impact on the
outcome.

519
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,320
I'm going to, I'm going to come
back to that later when we talk

520
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,920
about, stay tuned for the next
conversation because we're going

521
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,360
to come back to that point about
marking.

522
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,760
So get rid of marking and I
don't mind a bit of planning.

523
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,600
Planning is really interesting.
I'd struggle with that one

524
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,960
because I really resent that
time at the weekend because I

525
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,080
wasn't.
Doing the weekend, but they

526
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,040
didn't.
At this point, I've got a whole

527
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,360
day of PPA.
It's all yeah, you're just gone

528
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,480
bounding.
Oh, crikey, OK.

529
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,080
Every class you have in the
future is just perfect, right?

530
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,280
You know, you know those classes
where they're just sure, they

531
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,560
just all want to learn.
They're just I love you have any

532
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,680
problems at all?
You just go home thinking what a

533
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,160
dream, right?
Or you always have an amazing

534
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,520
TA.
Always have an amazing TA that

535
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,840
is not even.
I honestly don't even that is

536
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,080
not even a question to me.
I'd always have an amazing TA

537
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,400
because two reasons those
perfect, like I hate the word

538
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,520
perfect because we're implying
others are imperfect and that's

539
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:51,760
not very nice.
But I know what you mean.

540
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,320
But those, my favourite classes
have been those classes that

541
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,240
have a bit of a challenge.
I quite like that.

542
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,000
I quite relish that.
I mean, I've had one of those

543
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,800
classes you traditionally think
where wow, I can just crack on

544
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,080
and this is no issue at all.
Do you know what, it's nice, but

545
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,000
at some point you want a bit of
character, you want something to

546
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,760
bounce off.
And I'm not saying you want to

547
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,200
have like a horribly behaved
class, which are really hard to

548
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,040
manage, but there's just
something about you want a

549
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:18,840
diverse range of children.
That's part of the job.

550
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,400
I want I want to have different
backgrounds.

551
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,360
And do you know what I want to
help them kids as well.

552
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:23,520
I feel like I can help them a
little bit.

553
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,160
So I would absolutely take the
other class, but with an amazing

554
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,880
TA because the impact we could
have as a team then would be

555
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:34,040
unbelievable.
Also an amazing TA that Let me

556
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,160
think.
Let me before I say this

557
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:40,000
outlandish statement.
I think an amazing TA is the

558
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,600
absolute best thing you could
have as a resource, let's say as

559
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,520
a teacher by far.
So with that Trump like all of

560
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,280
the other, would you others so
far sort of, yeah.

561
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,440
Like if I just said, you know,
just any of the other, would you

562
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:52,960
rather would you be picking the
TA basically?

563
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,680
I think so.
I think I would because it's

564
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,840
interesting, because there's so
many amazing TAS out there and

565
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,040
they have such an impact where
they, they do, they do those

566
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,920
little jobs for you that you
need because they, they just

567
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:03,360
think about it before you even
think about it.

568
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,520
But then also they can work with
any of the children you need to

569
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,720
work with.
They can manage the class when

570
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,600
they need to manage the class.
They can work in groups.

571
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,720
They're your friend.
You have an adult conversation.

572
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,640
You know you need that every now
and then when you're with the

573
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,200
kids 6 hours a day.
I I'm struggling right now on

574
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,600
the spot to think of a better
impact you could have than a

575
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,880
really good TA.
Which is why I think if we're

576
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,000
thinking about solving problems
in school, feet on the ground is

577
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,360
one of the biggest things we
need to do.

578
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:31,120
And we need to pay TAS properly
to make the job more reasonable

579
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:32,560
for them, because they're
invaluable.

580
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,400
And have enough budget in the
schools to even have the.

581
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,600
Tasmania in the first place.
Which is why we said so much in

582
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,280
the past that money is the
solution.

583
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,600
It's not not because we're
greedy.

584
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,480
That's because we literally
can't afford.

585
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,080
And that money doesn't have to
go into my pocket.

586
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,840
No no no money.
Exactly what you're saying.

587
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,560
Get get like pay ATA properly
and maybe hire a new one as

588
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:48,600
well.
And give some of it to my

589
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,720
pocket.
I'm going to do 2 more.

590
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,480
OK, the last one was a bit
silly, but next one hope you

591
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:57,480
get.
I mean by this is quite vague.

592
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,360
Directed time is actually
respected.

593
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,280
Okay, so you actually do 1265
hours a year?

594
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,280
Yeah.
And it's very much respected in

595
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,200
the same way we'll be in a
corporate job of no, you've done

596
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,840
95, why are you here at 10 + 5
your shifts?

597
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,880
I think we're a bit naive about
that sometimes.

598
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,320
I think a lot of people work a
bit more and just of course,

599
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,600
but, but I think we're teaching,
but it's exacerbated.

600
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's not respected in our

601
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:18,240
job.
No, not at all.

602
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,320
Because you're already going
over directed time to prepare

603
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,080
and plan.
Yeah, sure.

604
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,640
Yeah.
And now that and now that's like

605
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,480
expected.
So either direct time is

606
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:26,440
actually respected.
Yeah.

607
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,360
Or you never have to phone a
parent again.

608
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,120
And it's not because we're not
speaking to parents.

609
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,720
It's because going on the phone
as a millennial, it's just a

610
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,080
thing where it's like, it's just
for some reason, it's horribly

611
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,720
unnerve wracking.
It's picking up the phone.

612
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,640
I'd rather just e-mail them or
talk to a person so you never

613
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:40,720
have to phone a parent ever
again.

614
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,080
It's still.
But, but you can.

615
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,400
But you can still talk to them
and have a relationship with

616
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:45,080
them.
Of course you can.

617
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,640
Yeah, it's.
Not about not talking to parents

618
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:47,840
specifically.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

619
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,960
Phone Phone calls are just
horribly.

620
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,080
For some reason they are, I
don't know what it is about a

621
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,680
phone call, but I get, I get
anxious.

622
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:54,440
I know, I don't know.
Why?

623
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,160
I don't know why.
I could phone you and I'm like,

624
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,560
oh God, I don't.
But I would say in the I don't

625
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,080
phone you, I'm always with you.
We've always wanted to be

626
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,880
phoning you right there.
Out of those two, I would want

627
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,480
direct the time to be respected.
Yeah, I can get over a phone

628
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,240
call.
It's a joke.

629
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,640
It's a bit of a meme, but
obviously I can phone people and

630
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,320
I think phoning parents and
talking to parents within

631
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,120
reason.
Again, this comes up in our Q&A

632
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:20,120
later, so do keep this is like a
preface here.

633
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:24,560
Again, I think it's really
powerful and important and the

634
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,240
idea of my time actually being
respected to 1265 hours would

635
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,240
unlock so much more with Rory,
my son and just my I could, I

636
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,240
could.
I love when I can go into a

637
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,440
weekend and know it's my weekend
and I plan my weekend around the

638
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,960
family and know I've got to do
this without thinking, am I

639
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,560
going to fit in that two hours
of planning or what to do?

640
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,200
Yeah, yeah.
Just like this weekend for.

641
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,160
Example, I have to do about two
hours of planning at some point

642
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,880
and it's just looming over me a
bit and I'm going to resent it

643
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,400
and I'm already ruined.
One of your days.

644
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:52,520
Really.
Yeah, well, because I've.

645
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,640
You know, I've got to stop and
I've got to stop something.

646
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,000
Either it's my time after Rory
goes down or it's my time with

647
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,800
Rory beforehand.
It's like, well, both of them

648
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,000
are actually important.
So that's frustrating to me.

649
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,320
I find from speaking to.
Teachers over the years and just

650
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,280
our own experiences that the
biggest impact that teaching has

651
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,800
on the weekend.
It's not necessarily

652
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,920
specifically knowing of this
week and I have to plan this and

653
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,160
this.
It's, it's the constant looming,

654
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,480
like I'm probably going to have
to be doing stuff at the weekend

655
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,760
so I won't book anything in
advance.

656
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,600
It's that, it's that like, well,
I could book this thing in four

657
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,360
weeks, but I don't know, I'm
probably going to have a bunch

658
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:25,360
of long rights to mark on that
weekend.

659
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,920
And I, I think it might be my
turn to plan maths that weekend.

660
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,560
Like people just don't book
stuff in term at all.

661
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,480
They just go the whole term and
do anything.

662
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,040
You you left with a dead
weekend.

663
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,000
Yeah, exactly.
So your.

664
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,120
Weekends like not even as good
as it could have been, even when

665
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:40,080
you've not got any work.
I feel like that's very common.

666
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,160
That's a really good point I
thought.

667
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,480
About that which which is why I
think.

668
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:43,240
I think that.
Happens.

669
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:44,840
Yeah, I definitely happened, the
director time being.

670
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,840
Respected, I think would have a
huge impact because you could

671
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,520
plan ahead then.
And be like, well, obviously I'd

672
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,360
have to do that work because
it's not work time.

673
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:51,280
Yeah, I never do.
My, my.

674
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,160
School's really respectful and
they get crossed if we end up

675
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,440
taking too much.
Imagine someone working.

676
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,200
Monday to Friday going oh God, I
can't book anything that six

677
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,160
weeks.
I've never answered on that

678
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,200
Sunday because I might have some
insurance claims to go through.

679
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,960
Yeah, you won't on Monday.
Yeah, you.

680
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,560
If you book your overtime when
in advance, I'll work these

681
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,520
three Saturdays of this or agree
or disagree.

682
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:08,960
At the point, can you do this a
Saturday?

683
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,440
No, sorry, I'm away.
I booked it.

684
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:11,400
OK, we'll book someone.
We'll.

685
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,600
Get someone out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

686
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:13,720
Because.
You are an employee and we're.

687
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,160
All replaceable right last.
Question last one.

688
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,560
Very silly chat so star from.
Treats are always topped here,

689
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:21,760
and they exist whenever you want
them.

690
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,480
You know those times when you
just walk down hoping, hoping

691
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,960
they're there, that'll be good.
Or.

692
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,080
You never need a PO.
At school again.

693
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,760
This is easy for me.
I don't poo at school.

694
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,040
What?
I don't poo at school.

695
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,000
Never.
No, just don't.

696
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,520
I just it's not that I need to
and don't I just I just got into

697
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,120
a habit of not doing it.
Like do you ever need?

698
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:40,520
To poo at school, you don't
even.

699
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,160
You don't even need to be very
very.

700
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,640
Very, very well.
Yeah.

701
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:44,880
Yeah.
That's so.

702
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,320
My body just doesn't let me.
I don't know.

703
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,960
I think there's a lot of people.
Listening that would be like

704
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,880
that would kill to be in your
position so my.

705
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,560
My choice there is peak starter
and treats.

706
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,080
And you know what?
I wanna do a little call out for

707
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,880
starter and treats because sweet
treats are lovely.

708
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,360
But can we just like, can we
pick up the savoury?

709
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:02,800
Nice sweets, nice treats, not
free cheese.

710
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,160
But just like there's nothing
wrong with nice savoury treat.

711
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:07,760
Every now and then maybe I need
to bring some in and start a

712
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,120
trend.
But it's always like, it's

713
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:11,840
always like a bit of cake.
That's nice.

714
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,840
It's nice.
Where's the pasty?

715
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:15,440
Where's the cheese, bean and
sausage?

716
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,640
Because you're in Northerner,
isn't it, though?

717
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,480
I do.
Where's?

718
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,120
I just want some pastry, not
some nice pastry.

719
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:21,680
Every now and then I'd eat
pastry in it.

720
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:22,960
So do you know I was younger?
Sorry.

721
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:23,880
You go on.
I was younger.

722
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,760
My mum used to make pies.
We're Northern family.

723
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:26,800
Yeah.
It's pie night.

724
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,000
We're gonna have some meat pie.
We're gonna have some tomato

725
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,760
pie.
We had some like tomato, cheese,

726
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,000
tomato and cheese pie.
I didn't like that one.

727
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,240
And some she made some bean pie
and sausage pie because I used

728
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,200
to all on the same night where
you pick.

729
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,200
A bit, yeah.
All the same night.

730
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,760
Like 3-4 different pies going on
and then you'd have pie flight

731
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,720
your lunch for the week as well
which is fantastic.

732
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,640
Anyway, I was a bit picky when I
was younger and you know, if my

733
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,760
mum didn't get around to making
the bean and cheese pie or it

734
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,280
was just a steak pie, it's a
musilica gel pie.

735
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,640
That reference go back.
Long ago and find the episode

736
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,200
where we did I eat a chicken.
Pocket.

737
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,600
Yeah, maybe.
But my mum would also for me

738
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,320
specifically, make like little
shapes of just pastry, like cut

739
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:08,760
it out.
Oh, just straight and just put

740
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,600
pastry that was leftover in the
oven, knowing that I just want

741
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:12,480
some pastry and gravy.
Yeah.

742
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,040
Because I just like, like that
was my little picky tree pastry.

743
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,440
Just a bit of pastry in its own.
Yeah.

744
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,720
In the shape of a dinosaur or
something.

745
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:18,080
Yeah.
Yeah.

746
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:19,840
Cook it.
That's my dinner.

747
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,760
A bit of pastry.
Everyone else eating meat and

748
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,760
you're eating pastry?
Yeah.

749
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,640
Yeah, that was me.
That's my love and swear I love

750
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,760
this so much.
I bloody loved it.

751
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,160
Give me that page.
Did you say had gravy as you?

752
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,040
Dip it.
No.

753
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,800
Yeah, I will just.
Pour it on top and have like 3

754
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:42,120
dinosaurs and like, here comes
the meteor. 16 years old.

755
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,680
This was last week.
Yeah.

756
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:45,280
Would you?
Ever.

757
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,080
Did you ever.
I'm really invested in this.

758
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:48,720
Did you ever just eat the
pastry?

759
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,600
Like straight up, nothing on it,
just dry pastry?

760
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes.
Yeah, yeah.

761
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,520
And also a lot of the time,
because again, I've got a weird

762
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,520
relationship with food and
everyone who knows me

763
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,920
understands that I very rarely
finish at dinner.

764
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,960
Or you don't always leave
something with a pie.

765
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,480
I'd be eating my pie and at some
point I, my brain would just go,

766
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,080
oh, you don't want that feeling
anymore, so I'd just eat the

767
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,800
pastry and leave, like leave a
big pie.

768
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,360
So you are.
Dylan is.

769
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:12,560
I'm going to talk to these guys
now.

770
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,200
Dylan's a fascinating person.
If you ever get these, he's an

771
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,240
incredible specimen.
If you ever get to sorry, can

772
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,600
you go back on your page if you?
Ever get to David Amber voice?

773
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,400
Excuse me, The animals don't.
Normally talk over the

774
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,960
presenter.
If you ever get to witness Dylan

775
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,800
eating anything it is
fascinating.

776
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,120
Just watch him because you'll
see the moment where he does

777
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,960
just decide oh I suddenly hate
this food I loved 5 seconds ago

778
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,280
and he would just pick it out
like I've made I've made him.

779
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,960
I'm not joking.
I have made Dylan an egg

780
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,320
sandwich before.
He was like I said, 1 egg or two

781
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,840
eggs. 02 eggs please.
Oh he loves his eggs.

782
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,240
You'll have an egg sandwich,
will he?

783
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,520
I gave you the egg sandwich and
I swear to God within 5 seconds

784
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,240
both eggs were out.
Ate the bread and butter I was.

785
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,240
Like what was the point?
Literally like seconds in that

786
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,120
you just decided I don't want
the eggs.

787
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,000
I wanted two eggs a minute ago.
I don't want the eggs now.

788
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,080
I was like, are they cooked
wrong?

789
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,440
No, I just don't want them now.
I don't fancy the eggs now.

790
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,520
He does that all the time.
He just doesn't fancy something.

791
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,040
It's just so weird do.
You not think like one of the

792
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,080
perks of being an adult is you
don't have to eat stuff you

793
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,720
don't want anymore.
I just I wanted it 5.

794
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,560
Minutes ago and I still want it.
In fact, I liked egg for years.

795
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,160
I'll always eat the egg
sandwich.

796
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,080
It's.
Very strange I think what we

797
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,040
should probably do at this point
let's have our little discussion

798
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,600
and and and then we're going to
focus on the question that

799
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,080
really stood out have a little
discussion about that and we'll

800
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,360
finish off with the rest of the
questions.

801
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,520
Cool sound good yeah let's page
in yesterday we asked people for

802
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,040
their questions so I just put it
out there because we were

803
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,440
thinking what should we talk
about tomorrow?

804
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,520
Let's do AQ and a section.
It's based on your massive.

805
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:41,560
Instagram Yeah, yeah, this is on
my.

806
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,120
Instagram that I've built up and
so people are sending them

807
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,320
questions and we're going to do
the Q&A at the end of this.

808
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,360
So we'll do a bit more of a
rapid fire and we'll go through

809
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,680
as many questions as we can.
But one question did actually

810
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,360
stand out to me because it was
aligned with something I

811
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,280
actually wanted to talk about,
maybe clarify a bit.

812
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,320
And it was to do with the
episodes we've been talking

813
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,080
about recently.
And, you know, we, we, we often

814
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,680
speak about, you know, as a
teacher, what is our role, you

815
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,480
know, and, and the question that
we got asked essentially was

816
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,200
from Sean.
And he said, what is a fair

817
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,280
amount of admin work?
And it really picked my interest

818
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,400
'cause I thought, oh, gosh, I
wonder if we've kind of given

819
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,880
off the impression in the last
few weeks that we think teachers

820
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,320
should do absolutely nothing.
Yeah.

821
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,080
That isn't to do with their role
as being as, as teaching

822
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:24,760
children.
Sure.

823
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,120
And I was like, oh, that's such
a good question because I think

824
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,160
every teacher out there
thinking, well, there's

825
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,480
obviously some admin stuff we
have to do because it's just

826
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,000
part of the role.
But where is that line?

827
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,480
And where can I start saying no?
And where do I look a bit petty,

828
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,840
like you said before, Like is it
just petty for me to say no, No,

829
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,360
it's admin, so I shouldn't be
able to do it.

830
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,640
And I think there is some kind
of middle ground here.

831
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,560
And it got me thinking and we
can expand this question a bit,

832
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,800
I guess as a general chat, as a
teacher, what is a fair amount

833
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,320
of work?
What should what do you have to

834
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,280
do because it has an impact?
And what maybe can you just

835
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,240
leave out even though someone
might make you feel bad for

836
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,280
doing it, but but you just as a
teacher go, I need to leave this

837
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,000
out.
I can still be a good teacher

838
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,120
and This is why.
Do you reckon this?

839
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,160
Came from that episode we did on
the workload reduction.

840
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,440
That list of was it was it
literally called administration

841
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,520
job exactly that teachers don't
have to do.

842
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,200
The problem is with that list
and it was like, I still stand

843
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,600
by that episode.
I think everything we said was

844
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,280
relevant.
The problem is that list wasn't

845
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,680
it didn't include every single
part of admin, did it.

846
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,440
So there are some some admin
jobs that yeah, I think we both

847
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,560
think probably are necessary,
but maybe weren't mentioned in

848
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,640
there and even in.
The episode, I think we had a

849
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,840
good chat about some points
where we were just a bit like,

850
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,880
well, someone's got to do it.
And sometimes we, you know, we

851
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,200
kind of do.
So let's just we'll start off by

852
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,360
thinking about admin, then we'll
answer Sean's question and maybe

853
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,600
we'll go a bit bit wider because
I think you had a question about

854
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,720
what admin actually is.
Yeah, and where it kind of comes

855
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,240
in.
So do you want to discuss that

856
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,680
now or after we've done a bit of
admin?

857
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,840
Well, let's let's.
I guess to answer it we need we

858
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,200
need to we need to kind of
define what admin is really so

859
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,120
in.
In this case, let's start off by

860
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,120
talking about admin as anything
not directly to do with teaching

861
00:32:59,120 --> 00:32:59,840
and learning.
OK.

862
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,880
OK, so for now, let's say it's
not to do with delivering

863
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,800
lessons, it's not to do with
planning lessons, and it's not

864
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,200
to do with the outcomes after
the lesson when you want to

865
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,240
assess the job.
Yeah, yeah, sure.

866
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,040
So let's.
Say keeping assessment kind of

867
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,280
and planning assessment and
teaching set, Yeah, yeah, we're

868
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,160
thinking of proper like
traditional admin, yeah.

869
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,920
So for example starting off.
Organising and planning a trip.

870
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,960
OK.
I think it's fair for a teacher

871
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,640
to be expected to think about
what curriculum you're going

872
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,520
through at the minute and what
trips might be suitable.

873
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,600
Yeah.
And kind of pass the baton over.

874
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:31,720
Yeah, I'm glad you said that
because.

875
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,320
I was a bit worried then that
you were going to say and plan,

876
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:34,600
plan the trip.
No, because you talk, you spoke.

877
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:35,840
About this and you made a really
good point.

878
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:36,320
Yeah.
Yeah.

879
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:37,720
What?
Was this in a previous?

880
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,680
Yeah, in that so.
Yeah, I think.

881
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,520
Absolutely, like the teacher
needs like if someone, if

882
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,000
someones job in the office is to
like actually organise a trip,

883
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,040
like book the coach right and go
and book the actual venue, pay

884
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,200
for it like that, all that sort
of stuff.

885
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,440
That's fair enough, but should
it be their job to think?

886
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,760
Oh, yeah, 5 doing want to be
checked space.

887
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,920
They're doing space system.
I tell you what, they'd another

888
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,040
trip to this place.
That's not really their job.

889
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,640
I think that's the job of the
teacher.

890
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,400
Whoever's planning the
curriculum at that point should

891
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,160
probably be thinking this would
be an enriching trip.

892
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,480
Hey, office, do you think we
could go here?

893
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:08,840
There you go.
Pass the bat and you could

894
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,199
argue.
That is to do teaching and

895
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,440
learning because you're you're,
you know, that day you're doing

896
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,040
a trip you're not going to be
planning lessons for.

897
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,239
Yeah.
So that's, you know, replacing

898
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:17,639
that almost.
I'm sorry, I'm just spatting

899
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,159
your face.
I didn't see it.

900
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:20,920
Didn't.
Feel it, tasted it though.

901
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,520
But you could.
Argue that's that's become

902
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,080
teaching and learning.
I think maybe that's why we can

903
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,040
justify it a bit more in our
heads.

904
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,159
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
It's a bit of a.

905
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:31,400
Blurred Line, I suppose.
Organising trips, yeah, there's

906
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,000
a bit of admin involved and
yeah, I do think teachers,

907
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,560
you've got to do some admin.
Like what about, you know,

908
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,199
talking to parents, inputting
data, that kind of stuff, which

909
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,560
is clearly part of the job and
and has to be done?

910
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,760
Is that come under admin?
That's fair.

911
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,080
Is that admin?
Do you know what?

912
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,639
I think there's a good.
Interesting discussion about the

913
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,800
parent bit, right?
Because I, we've, we've worked

914
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,080
in schools where that approach
has been very different.

915
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,040
I think if I think the school's
approach to, to how like the

916
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,640
expectation of a teacher talking
to parents is really crucial.

917
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,800
I think it's totally acceptable
to say teachers should not have

918
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,760
to interact with parents outside
of specific like given times of

919
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,480
the day.
And it could be that the rule is

920
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,840
parents, if you need to speak to
a teacher, there's like a 10

921
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,400
minute window when they're
dropping off their kids and that

922
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:14,360
is it.
If it's any longer than that,

923
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,120
you have to book an appointment
for the office, right?

924
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,280
And like really strict rules.
And we also literally have

925
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,000
parents evenings, we have them
across the year.

926
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,240
So like speak to them there.
I don't think it's remotely

927
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,880
acceptable that parents have
24/7 access to teachers.

928
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,560
I don't think they should have
your emails.

929
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,880
I don't think they should be
able to phone up and just demand

930
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,920
that you take a phone call
whenever you want as if like

931
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,360
you're not horribly busy all the
time.

932
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:36,760
I don't think it's acceptable.
And I've worked in a school

933
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,000
where that was kind of the case.
It was very much you're here to

934
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,600
serve the the public, which we
are.

935
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:43,200
You're here to serve these
parents and these families,

936
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,320
which we are.
So therefore, therefore you have

937
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,560
to take all these phone calls
whenever and sorry, a doctor's

938
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,280
not.
There to serve the community and

939
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,360
help people.
Oh, they are.

940
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:52,240
Yeah.
Well, I can't get through to

941
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:54,480
him, can I?
Can't get that up famously.

942
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:55,600
So I just think it's.
Yeah.

943
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,160
You kind of made me go off from
on there, but I think the idea

944
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,600
of like the admin of families, I
guess like and organising.

945
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,360
Meetings with parents and stuff
like that.

946
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,200
I don't think we should do that.
I really don't.

947
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,400
I think that I think there has
to be a good school should have

948
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,080
a system and it's a it's like a
tiered system of can it wait

949
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,280
till parents even cool done.
Leave it till then.

950
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,320
Then is it urgent?
OK, go through the office.

951
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,440
They'll talk to the head teacher
and make an appointment.

952
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:19,760
Does it need to involve the
teacher?

953
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:20,920
No.
Great done.

954
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:21,840
The head teacher will deal with
it.

955
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,280
That's their job.
Does it?

956
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,720
Next line, does it need to
involve a parent?

957
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:26,000
Okay, cool.
We're going to arrange some time

958
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,720
out of class so that that
teacher is not now having to do

959
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:30,800
it at 5:00 PM randomly on a
certain day.

960
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,520
Come in, please, at 10:00 AM,
lovely parent, and we're going

961
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,560
to and I'll get the teacher out
and we can have this meeting.

962
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,480
Sure.
I think there's so many ways it

963
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,520
could be, but it's not.
Important enough that it's you

964
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:41,760
shouldn't come out of class for
it.

965
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:44,760
Is it important enough to have a
meeting for in the 1st place?

966
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,400
I mean, that's the line you've
got to draw, isn't it?

967
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,840
Because you're right, there is a
medium where parents have a

968
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,080
right to talk to their child's,
you know, teacher, of course

969
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,320
they do for almost anything
really.

970
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,400
But it has to be a reason you're
absolutely right.

971
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,120
And you know what are there?
Exceptional circumstances, yes,

972
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:58,680
Because I know if people listen
to this, they'll probably

973
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,560
immediately think of that one
example where they absolutely

974
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,760
had to.
Like very recently I spoke to a

975
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,760
parent in school time kind of
off the cuff about something

976
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,880
because you know what to name in
that moment.

977
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,520
It was urgent.
It was urgent and and it wasn't

978
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,880
really the right time to do it,
but I thought I am just a, a

979
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,320
normal nice human being though.
So I am just going to go and

980
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,240
help them in this moment.
If it happened every single

981
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:20,320
week, I'd probably have to be
like that.

982
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,360
I want to help you, but we can't
keep doing this because there's

983
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,240
there's systems in.
I think that's the nuance.

984
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:26,720
That's being lost currently in
teaching because of all the

985
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:29,520
goodwill expected of people.
It's that's that's always been

986
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:30,960
the nuanced teachers have had
forever.

987
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,000
And it feels like that's kind of
been taken for granted and built

988
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,400
on and built on.
And they have to do more and

989
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,800
more and more and more.
And now we're at breaking point

990
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,920
where people like ours are sat
here going, guys, you don't have

991
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:40,920
to do this.
Yeah.

992
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,080
And the issue of that is then we
go too far the other way.

993
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,400
Yeah.
And the needle goes straight

994
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,960
back to, you know, you don't
talk to parents at all.

995
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,640
Of course you have to talk to
parents.

996
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,320
It's a huge part of the job.
It can nip things in the bud.

997
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,280
Literally speaking to a parent
can have something come across

998
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,280
in a way where the parent
understands your point.

999
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,240
If it's written, even sometimes
in an e-mail, even though a

1000
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:00,800
chain of, you know, stuff
written down is really

1001
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,760
important, it can come across in
a different way and take more

1002
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,160
time you can take.
More time the.

1003
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,800
Amount of times I've managed to
speak to a parent and genuinely

1004
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,200
within 20 seconds get across
something I needed to clarify

1005
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,800
something.
The parents completely

1006
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,520
reasonable didn't understand
that that was the situation that

1007
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,560
we're in.
And it's never spoken about

1008
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,200
again.
It's compared to if I hadn't

1009
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,120
got, oh, I don't have to talk to
you, I need to go now because

1010
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,680
I've got marking to do.
Then it bubbles up and becomes a

1011
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,520
huge problem.
And as a professional, that's

1012
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,560
the level of work.
And I don't know if this is what

1013
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,240
you mentioned when you talked
about admin, but this kind of

1014
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:34,680
low level stuff which you could
sit and pick apart and say it's

1015
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,440
not part of our job.
Actually, we don't have to do

1016
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,360
that.
In the long run, it makes your

1017
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,000
job easier.
So as a teacher, you need to

1018
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,680
decide when, the moment.
And going back to your point on

1019
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,760
compromising, which you
mentioned, I think this is like

1020
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,240
the key to everything here
because both things we've

1021
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,120
mentioned so far, we've kind of
been saying there's a bad way of

1022
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,360
doing it and there's a good way
of doing it.

1023
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,040
Right.
If the school's got a good

1024
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,440
system in place.
Yeah.

1025
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:54,640
Do you know what make the odd
compromise.

1026
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,320
It's like, yeah, of course I'm
going to speak to that parent

1027
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,680
who's literally crying at the
gate, like, because they need to

1028
00:38:58,680 --> 00:38:59,640
talk about something with their
kid.

1029
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,120
I'm not going to go.
No, actually, this is not the

1030
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,200
right time.
You need to arrange a meeting

1031
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,720
for next week.
Do you know what?

1032
00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:05,000
No.
In that moment, I'm absolutely

1033
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,840
going to drop whatever I'm
doing, regardless of how busy.

1034
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,520
That makes me lazy to go and
speak to that human being

1035
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:09,440
because I'm a human being as
well.

1036
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,000
But if the school's got rubbish
systems in place, this is what

1037
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,880
I'm going to do.
I'm not just going to sit there

1038
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,160
and go.
It's quite working here.

1039
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,200
It's really annoying.
I'm going to speak to the school

1040
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,000
SLT and be like, hey guys, I've
noticed this massive problem in

1041
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,640
our school.
Could we maybe try and fix this?

1042
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,600
And I'm going to go like you did
with that e-mail saying, oh,

1043
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,920
maybe this is a solution that
no, but.

1044
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,640
No, but I'm going to go.
Over solution.

1045
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,400
So I think yes, this, some of
this admin is essential.

1046
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,720
But if you're in a school where
it's become out of hand and it's

1047
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:38,280
taken, it's gone past that
goodwill and it's gone past the

1048
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,720
compromise.
There's no compromise anymore.

1049
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:41,960
It's just all on you.
Then you just need to have those

1050
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,320
discussions and learn to say no
and learn to say no.

1051
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:46,920
But maybe we could do it this
way instead.

1052
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,080
I think that's kind of a
probably going to be a theme

1053
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,680
when we talk about.
Yeah, well, I think I.

1054
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,640
Don't want to go over stuff?
We've mentioned lots in our

1055
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,800
previous episodes.
So if you want more admin tasks

1056
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,960
that you think aren't
acceptable, think classroom

1057
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,200
displays, evidencing books,
copying stuff, parents, you

1058
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,400
know, dreaming parents out,
dreaming, giving parents letters

1059
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,880
and stuff for trips, blah blah
blah, go and watch the episode

1060
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,280
23 Things a Teacher Shouldn't
Do.

1061
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,600
But what I do want to talk about
now is that flip side of Sean's

1062
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:11,440
question.
Correct.

1063
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,880
What is acceptable because I do
think there are tasks that are

1064
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,880
very clearly admini that aren't
to do teaching and learning,

1065
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,120
which is what we set up this
whole thing at the start, which

1066
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,320
I think are absolutely vital for
a teacher to do and is literally

1067
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,720
part of our job.
For example, logging,

1068
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:28,480
safeguarding issues, logging
behaviour issues, whatever

1069
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,280
process you have in your school.
I think some people have Cpoms.

1070
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,680
My concern, whatever it is
logging like issues that you

1071
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,200
have that pop up, anything to do
safeguarding behaviour, you

1072
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,920
know, something someone says
they did something.

1073
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,440
We don't need to sit here and
tell you guys who work in a

1074
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,960
school how important
safeguarding is, but sitting

1075
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,200
there for 10 minutes logging
things that have happened that

1076
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,320
day is vital.
Is is absolutely non negotiable,

1077
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,160
is absolutely part of our job
and is a fair expectation of a

1078
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,960
teacher to do.
And I don't think there's any

1079
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,720
wiggle room there.
No, no, I.

1080
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:01,520
Agree.
I fully agree.

1081
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:02,640
I've got nothing more to add to
that.

1082
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,640
I think some other things like
learning, individual learning

1083
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,360
plans, sure.
So when children have received

1084
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,240
funding from, you know, from the
government or whatever, they,

1085
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:14,360
whatever learning plan they've
got, it is literally part of it

1086
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,000
is our job description.
As a teacher, you are

1087
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,320
responsible for every child in
your class on that individual

1088
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,680
level.
Yeah.

1089
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,760
Unfortunately, EHCP is a yeah.
Yeah, I think.

1090
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,120
That we can have a discussion
about how those things get done

1091
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,720
because they're, because they're
a lot of work, but I think the

1092
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:29,760
necessity of them being done is
there, isn't it?

1093
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,280
Like I, I wouldn't, I would
never recommend teachers say to

1094
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,280
say, no, I'm not writing that
EHCP for the kid in my class

1095
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,280
because because it's not on my
list of things to do.

1096
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,520
Well, firstly, it is
unfortunately, the only argument

1097
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,720
I think someone could have is
OK, when am I going to be given

1098
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:47,400
the time to do that?
Because this might take me an

1099
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,960
hour to do and and let's say
you've mentioned this a long

1100
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:52,640
time in an episode.
If you just suddenly.

1101
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,320
Have like five children in your
class that all need HCPS.

1102
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,480
Vital to do.
Vital to do and have.

1103
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,040
To be done literally you cannot
say they can't be done and the

1104
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,320
next class next door don't have
any.

1105
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,040
You do suddenly just have like 5
hours more workloads every

1106
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:05,680
couple of terms than the next
person.

1107
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,560
So again, there's compromise
there.

1108
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,600
Have a discussion with your SLT,
say I've got this bigger

1109
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,840
workload, it's essential admin,
I have to do it and we all know

1110
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,240
that and I'm not going to argue
that I'm not going to get done,

1111
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,400
but but can you help me with
some time to do it?

1112
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,480
So yeah, you're right.
There are there is some admin

1113
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,600
where it's like, no, it has to
be done.

1114
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:23,960
Like you can't argue against
that.

1115
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,720
Anything else you can do?
Well, I think.

1116
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:27,360
It's more to like medical stuff,
isn't it?

1117
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,840
Like there's there'll be
children in your class who don't

1118
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,200
necessarily have HCPS but might
have a medical need.

1119
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,320
You go through that at the start
of the year.

1120
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,880
That's a bit of an
administration organising that

1121
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,680
knowing you know there might be
children in your class who have

1122
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,240
a toilet pass for you.
Just taking allergies.

1123
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,000
You know, that is the admin
probably to go through your

1124
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,400
class lists and look at the
medical records and know well

1125
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,320
this child can't be near this.
So let's not do that anymore.

1126
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,240
Let's change this completely
vital.

1127
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,560
Absolutely, Papa John, there's
no teacher out there bemoaning

1128
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:55,840
doing these really important
jobs.

1129
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,560
I think what you're saying is,
and the question going back to

1130
00:42:58,560 --> 00:42:59,960
it, what's a fair amount of
work?

1131
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,640
You know it, a fair amount of
work is something that doesn't

1132
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,080
massively impact your home life.
And if something is that

1133
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,960
important that we all agree
EHCP's medical needs, filling

1134
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,040
out referral reforms.
I've had to fill out a few

1135
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,920
referral forms already this
year, just at the start of

1136
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,520
potentially a diagnosis.
Yeah, because doctors need to

1137
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,880
know a teacher's point of view.
Yeah, that's a fully, that's a

1138
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,760
full on admin task.
I had to sit down at my desk for

1139
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,840
15 minutes and fill out this
form for the child all the time.

1140
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:23,880
I mean.
Teachers will know this because

1141
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,880
I'm sure the forms quite
universal, but ASD and ADHD,

1142
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,880
yeah, all the time and they're
quite long.

1143
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,320
You have to find a lot of yes or
no questions or like one to five

1144
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:32,520
ratings.
Look up how they've got on in.

1145
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,200
Their assessments recently and
they've got to do it.

1146
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,600
Yeah, you can't.
Not do it, No.

1147
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,400
It's important, need it.
Yeah, and imagine the childhood

1148
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,840
does have ADHD, who's relying on
you as a teacher to give that

1149
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,840
professional input for them to
eventually get a diagnosis, to

1150
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,040
eventually get all the help they
need you.

1151
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,040
There's nothing more important
than that.

1152
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,920
When you when you compare that
to the admin task of printing

1153
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,200
off a display and putting up a
nice pretty picture on the wall,

1154
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,280
it pales in comparison.
So I guess my overall point here

1155
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:58,640
is what's a fair amount of admin
work?

1156
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,440
It's the amount of work you need
to get done for the impact on

1157
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,280
the children.
And if something doesn't have an

1158
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,520
impact on the children, to me
it's not a fair expectation to

1159
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:07,920
be placed on you and flipping it
around.

1160
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,200
And if it's not a fair amount of
work, then that's when you need

1161
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,880
to have discussions with the SLT
to say this is too much work on

1162
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,320
either time.
Is it essential?

1163
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,440
Is it not?
You know, I want to broaden this

1164
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:17,360
thing.
Because like I said, it really

1165
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,160
did inspire me to think, OK, in
general, you want to be a good

1166
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,400
teacher.
So we talked about admin tasks

1167
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:23,840
and stuff.
Everyone wants to do their job

1168
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,440
well.
What then, can you leave out

1169
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,600
what is a fair amount of work in
general?

1170
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,440
And let's let's broaden this
now, because when I first spoke

1171
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,080
to you about potentially talking
about this, I talked about admin

1172
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:35,440
tasks.
Yeah.

1173
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,920
And your mind went straight to
market.

1174
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I found it really

1175
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,560
interesting because I think we
disagree here on what an admin

1176
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,240
task would be.
Why did you mind go to marketing

1177
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:46,400
when it came to admin and not
necessarily planning or

1178
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:47,840
teaching?
Let me try and explain it.

1179
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,720
To me, and I'm, I'm probably
just wrong with what the word

1180
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:53,680
admin means, right?
But to me, the word admin in

1181
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,440
teaching is it encompasses
everything that I feel like

1182
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,720
doesn't have like a direct
impact basically on the on the

1183
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:01,760
teaching and learning of the
kids.

1184
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,560
And to me, unfortunately, this
is very pessimistic marking.

1185
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,200
I'm sure it's the same for you
based on what you said earlier.

1186
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:10,360
Marking is just it's just out
there with that, with that band

1187
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,200
like marking and displays to me
are way down there on that list

1188
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,120
of could they could they have
impact?

1189
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,520
Yeah, look, anything we do could
have it could have impact.

1190
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,600
There's not impact.
There's nothing that has a zero,

1191
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,280
right.
But is it, is it higher, is it

1192
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,560
likely to have enough impact
that it's worth the 8 hours this

1193
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:28,320
week I'll do on it?
Sure.

1194
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:29,840
Not really.
Right.

1195
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,480
So you know, you, you've always
mentioned these, what is it

1196
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,160
impact versus?
Yeah.

1197
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,520
It's balancing.
I think what we're awful as a

1198
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,040
profession is balancing impact
with input.

1199
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:40,160
Input.
That's the one I was saying.

1200
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,880
So you know you, I think as a
profession, you've got to at

1201
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,000
some point just make the call.
But even if the impact is

1202
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,760
positive, net +2%, right?
Yeah.

1203
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,240
If the input is doubling your
workload, it's not worth the 2%.

1204
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,160
Yeah, and that's what you need
to balance.

1205
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,640
And I think displays to me
clearly, clearly heavily

1206
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,960
balanced in the opposite
direction of a huge amount of

1207
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,720
time to put into them minimal
impact on children.

1208
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:07,160
So that's why I justify myself,
not specially when you RIP them.

1209
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,120
Down to 2 terms later to replace
them.

1210
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,320
It's like oh exact work and I
just.

1211
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,160
Don't think it has an impact
markings.

1212
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,200
I think it's closer to having
more of an impact.

1213
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,200
I think it can have more of an
impact.

1214
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,640
I still think it massively
outweighs on the scale whereas

1215
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,200
you go to planning that.
That input to me is is

1216
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,760
invaluable because the planning
is the lesson.

1217
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,880
And I think the amount of time
you put into that, it doesn't

1218
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,640
have to be loads because you're
more experienced as well as you

1219
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,320
get along your career, that has
a direct impact on what the kids

1220
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,240
learn.
That's clearly really important.

1221
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,000
And the obviously delivering of
teaching.

1222
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,640
You can't compromise on an hour
and a half lesson.

1223
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:41,840
It's an hour.
No, of course so.

1224
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,040
That.
That those two, I agree with

1225
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:45,240
you.
It's still happening in my head.

1226
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:46,200
Though do you know what you
planning?

1227
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,200
Yeah, like I think, I think I've
just got this warped view of

1228
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:49,760
admin.
Admin to me is anything or I'm

1229
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,520
just sat at a desk that is admin
to me when I'm not sat in front

1230
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,080
of the kids.
So even planning to me, but

1231
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,640
planning, planning is like that
good admin we just talked about.

1232
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:58,960
It's, it's the logging,
safeguarding.

1233
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,280
It's like, yeah, it's essential.
You have to plan lessons and you

1234
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,240
can make a big impact because
you can, you just said you can

1235
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:05,480
plan lessons in a really good
way.

1236
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,880
And marking is also admin to me
because I'm sat at a desk doing

1237
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,080
something.
It's just that it's way lower

1238
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,280
down the list, I think.
I think that's where my brains

1239
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,720
actually realistically, I'm just
obscuring the you're basically.

1240
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,680
You're you're defining admin as
not teaching anything that I

1241
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,480
worry I'm.
Not not just standing in front

1242
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,160
of the kids, basically, yeah.
So OK, another.

1243
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,040
One admin I just thought of
right now, doing the register,

1244
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,320
the ultimate admin task.
Yeah, yeah, given.

1245
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:27,840
Yeah, given time to do it every
morning.

1246
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,600
It's really important to see
who's in school.

1247
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,040
Of course, you've got to do the
register.

1248
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,480
No, it's not admin.
Mate, I'm doing it in front of

1249
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,040
the.
Kids, that's what you're

1250
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,000
teaching, is it?
I'm just.

1251
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:36,800
I'm just.
It's just another word I'm

1252
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,240
thinking, but it's not admin
basically.

1253
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,040
Yeah, non contact time is what
I'm thinking about and I'm

1254
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,080
calling it admin.
Yeah, so.

1255
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,040
Have you moved on your
definition of admin?

1256
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:46,960
Yeah, no, but.
And I knew I was.

1257
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,360
Wrong anyway, but I just have
this idea in my head that admins

1258
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,880
anything not with the kids.
But yeah, you know, back to the

1259
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,880
big question of what what do you
what can you not do, do you

1260
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,000
think?
Because I want to ask you this

1261
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,520
actually because you recently
you get really passionate about

1262
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,640
random things sometimes, like
you get really into something

1263
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,280
like I really don't want the.
Inside of this pie, I just want

1264
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:05,560
the pastry.
Just want the pastry.

1265
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:06,960
It's not shaped like a dinosaur,
man.

1266
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,960
You are you.
I've heard you recently just we

1267
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,080
speak to a lot of people saying
that you said, I'm going to

1268
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,040
quote you here because you maybe
being a bit extreme might come

1269
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,920
back on this.
You said I something like that.

1270
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,520
It's always scary.
Someone quotes you Exactly.

1271
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,120
It's not.
Exactly because it's my brain,

1272
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,200
but you said something along the
lines of I genuinely think I

1273
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,200
could do 0 marking all year and
it would make no difference to

1274
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,000
the outcomes of my children.
How much do you stand by that

1275
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,160
statement and what do you mean
by it?

1276
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,000
I'm going for the.
Sake of the content, and because

1277
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,200
I actually do think this, I'm
going to stand by it, I think.

1278
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,760
And and let me clarify.
Yeah, clarify.

1279
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,680
Marking as well, because so
marking is.

1280
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,120
Making marks in the children's
book marks, specifically me.

1281
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,440
Specifically making a marking in
the children's book to assess

1282
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,560
what they've done and maybe give
help to the child after the

1283
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,120
lesson via marking after the
lesson.

1284
00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:00,440
So what?
OK, I still think a teacher

1285
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,360
should look through the books,
and for me, looking for the

1286
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,400
books is vital as an assessment
tool.

1287
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,080
That's interesting.
But I can flick through them for

1288
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,160
like it could be two minutes
because in my head, let's say,

1289
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,200
let's say it's a maths lesson,
it's rounding.

1290
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:16,080
I love going to rounding.
I can, I can open a book to a

1291
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,480
rounding lesson and within 15
seconds know if the child gets

1292
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:21,760
it or not.
Because I'm just at that point

1293
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,400
in my career right now where
I've got more experience.

1294
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,360
People might be listening going,
God, I couldn't do that.

1295
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,560
Well, that's completely fine.
You know, that's, that's normal

1296
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:28,640
as well.
Maybe you take a minute.

1297
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,000
OK, but I still need to know if
my kids can do it or not.

1298
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,080
I have to know if my kids can do
the work or not because I need

1299
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,760
to know to move on or I should
do it again.

1300
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:37,560
And that can be from in the
lesson, Absolutely.

1301
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,120
And I think 90% of my judgement
is formed in the lesson, which

1302
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,160
is why it can take me 20 seconds
to flip for a book.

1303
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:47,000
But I absolutely think that
writing in someones book, let's

1304
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:47,920
flip to English.
Now.

1305
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,520
How long in your career or how
many years in your career have

1306
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,960
you for the entire year circled
a capital letter at the start of

1307
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,560
a sentence in a child's book for
the 54th time in a row because

1308
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,280
they still aren't doing capital
letters at the start of their

1309
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:02,760
work.
By the way, this child's in year

1310
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,880
6 and has had this done to them
in year one, year 2, year

1311
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,560
three-year 4, year five.
And this is their sixth year of

1312
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:09,920
their teacher scribbling in
their book.

1313
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,480
Capital letters at the start of
a sentence, please.

1314
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,760
It's clearly not having an
impact whatsoever.

1315
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,520
And what would be more powerful,
which is what you do anyway, is

1316
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,160
to stand in front of them in the
lesson and go, OK, everyone

1317
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,320
remember your capital letters.
And if they still don't do it,

1318
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,320
what do you think writing in
their book is going to do?

1319
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:26,800
No, no, I agree.
Absolutely nothing.

1320
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:32,320
I think it's really weak, like a
really weak way of getting a

1321
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,600
child to understand something,
to write it in their book and

1322
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,840
not be verbally teaching them as
a teacher.

1323
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,240
Yeah.
I think that's much the lowest

1324
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:39,720
form of feedback.
Absolutely.

1325
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,320
Listen, there'll be some
children who will look at

1326
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,040
marking and go, I made that
little mistake, OK, I'll pick up

1327
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:47,000
on that, and I won't do it
again.

1328
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,840
OK.
There might be some children who

1329
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,200
get that, and that's fine.
I'm talking about the repetitive

1330
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,960
nature of it like 1 when I am
actually saying to the children,

1331
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,320
can you put a full stop at the
end?

1332
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,360
Genuinely for the 54th time in a
in a row, genuinely I'm like

1333
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,920
cool, I am wasting my time.
What is more powerful for me and

1334
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,640
input and the time I put in and
the actual outcome for the

1335
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,000
children.
It's not worth my time to set a

1336
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,120
mark for an hour.
I can set a mark for 10 minutes

1337
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,000
instead and I can get just as
much out of the children.

1338
00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:16,080
I really want to try something,
Obviously I won't, but I really

1339
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,320
want to try something where I
just don't mark for a year.

1340
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,600
No one kind of knows.
Just kind of skim through the

1341
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:22,760
data.
At the end of the year, we still

1342
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,840
see progress for the children.
I want to turn around and say,

1343
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,680
cool, I didn't mark this year.
I saved 800 hours, literally.

1344
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,960
Of course, not quite 800, but I
saved legit probably in a week.

1345
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,400
How long do you spend marking?
I don't know.

1346
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,040
Let's say, let's say six hours.
Yeah, six hours.

1347
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,400
I saved 6 hours a week of work
and the children still made

1348
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,360
progress.
That's my opinion.

1349
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,840
I'm being radical, maybe because
I'm thinking, what can save this

1350
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:46,600
profession?
Yeah.

1351
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,520
Would you like 6 hours a week?
OK, cool.

1352
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,240
I don't think it's going to have
an impact on the children.

1353
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:51,400
Let's try and get rid of that.
Yeah.

1354
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,800
What about?
Because that's that's from a

1355
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:55,120
teacher's perspective.
I think a lot of that.

1356
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,280
What about from the kids
perspective, seeing after 87

1357
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,600
days of it being in your class
that that book has never, I've

1358
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,520
had a cream pen in it.
Yeah, a red pen.

1359
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:04,840
Or whatever.
I think the way you can get

1360
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,600
around that is through in class
directly talking to the kids.

1361
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,520
I do it all the time.
I say, right, guys, I've looked

1362
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,960
for your work and what I saw a
lot of the time.

1363
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:14,680
You can check it now.
Actually, guys, I've looked in

1364
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,480
your work while I'm talking.
So proving to them you've.

1365
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,040
Yeah, I noticed a lot of you
used amazing adjectives that we

1366
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:21,480
talked about.
The vocab you're using is

1367
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,040
fantastic.
Who used the word colourful

1368
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,120
vivation?
I don't know, probably not want

1369
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:28,520
to use the children.
Can't think of an adjective

1370
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,400
right now.
Who used the word vibrant?

1371
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,800
I noticed that at least 10
times.

1372
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:34,320
That's fantastic work.
Well done.

1373
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,600
And by the way, you're
handwriting you three, you're

1374
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,200
trying so hard.
Thank you.

1375
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,960
I think that can be just as
powerful because I think praise

1376
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,080
is important.
And I remember as a kid and the

1377
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:44,960
person we were talking to said
the only thing they can think

1378
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,040
about in terms of marking being
beneficial is when it makes a

1379
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:49,920
child feel good and they get
that praise.

1380
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,040
And I think that's absolutely
fine.

1381
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:52,960
And I do you know what?
I actually agreed with them.

1382
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,440
And I ended up saying, do you
know what?

1383
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,240
Yeah.
You know, a tick, a smiley, a

1384
00:52:56,240 --> 00:52:58,000
well done.
It goes a long way.

1385
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,880
But I think you can still do
that verbally.

1386
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,480
I think you can prove to the
children that you value and look

1387
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,400
at their work by the way you
react to the next lesson.

1388
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:07,680
What do you think about self
marking?

1389
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,120
In lessons like the kids, it's
marking, yeah, I think it's live

1390
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:11,360
marking.
I think it's good for certain.

1391
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,240
Things I wouldn't do it for a
short independent right that I

1392
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:17,160
think that'd be pointless if it
was, you know, I wouldn't even

1393
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:18,640
do it for every maths lesson
ever.

1394
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,680
But if it was we're practising
column method here is literally

1395
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:22,760
the answer.
Did you get there or not?

1396
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,920
I think where that's powerful is
if they take 6 and cross 4 when

1397
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,600
you're checking, you can go
straight to the four and be

1398
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,000
like, oh, OK, exchanging.
That's the problem.

1399
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:32,320
Another one for exchanging.
Another one.

1400
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:33,320
OK, I know what we're gonna do
tomorrow.

1401
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,200
So I'm just I'm really trying to
get in your brain, right?

1402
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:38,520
And I'm trying to build up your
idea of what market is because

1403
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:40,760
originally when I start this
conversation, I really thought

1404
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,160
you were saying you reckon you
could finish the lesson, put the

1405
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,120
books in a box, are ready for
turn and pick up the next lesson

1406
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,160
tomorrow.
You just don't have any any

1407
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,200
looking.
But you're kind of saying you

1408
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,320
still think it's important to
look through the books?

1409
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,320
Yeah, I think it would be.
Really irresponsible and wrong

1410
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,640
to say that formative assessment
isn't a thing that's important.

1411
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,280
OK.
I, I, I do think there are

1412
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,640
certain instances where there's
almost nothing that could happen

1413
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,240
in the book that wouldn't affect
your next assets.

1414
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,000
Yeah, this is so point I wanted
to make.

1415
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,200
So in maths, OK, if the children
can't do something and you have

1416
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,320
a really solid progression of
skills, there are many instances

1417
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,120
where you cannot move on to the
next lesson until they fully

1418
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:21,920
understand something.
It just doesn't make sense.

1419
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:23,680
You might spend two or three
lessons doing it.

1420
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,960
If there's still a few, don't
get it, You'll move on and

1421
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,080
you'll support them in a
different way.

1422
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:32,440
OK, history, if you're learning
about the Anglo Saxons and the

1423
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,000
invasion of Britain in one
lesson, if you're talking about

1424
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,320
the settlements that they made
and comparing them to the Romans

1425
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,400
beforehand, OK, if a child
doesn't quite grasp that could

1426
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,120
could you possibly move on to
King Alphabet in the next one?

1427
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,200
Of course you can.
Yeah, of course you can.

1428
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:48,040
Yeah.
So me sat there for half an hour

1429
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,360
really intricately looking at
the children understand the

1430
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,560
differences between the Roman
settlement and the Anglo Saxal

1431
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,880
settlement.
It's actually, no matter how

1432
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,800
much I look at that, it's not
going to affect the next lesson.

1433
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,600
We're talking about the story of
King Alphabet and the spread of

1434
00:54:58,600 --> 00:54:59,160
Christianity.
OK.

1435
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,800
So it has to be as a teacher,
you need to decide what the

1436
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,640
impact is.
And I suppose what I'm saying is

1437
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,080
the act of writing in the book
is pointless, but I still think

1438
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:10,800
there's lots of times where you
clearly have to know how a

1439
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,600
child's getting on before you
move on or go to your next step

1440
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,920
in your learning.
Sometimes you do, sometimes you

1441
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,280
don't.
And that freedom as a

1442
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:18,680
professional would be quite nice
to have.

1443
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,960
Yeah, I think that sometimes.
Maybe I'm more extreme.

1444
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,320
I think that sometimes that you
don't is what is like 90% of the

1445
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,440
time really.
I think with afternoon lessons

1446
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,200
almost always kind of using the
analogy you just made with

1447
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,920
history lessons, I think, I
reckon I could never look at an

1448
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:34,560
afternoon book and just the kids
would just get exactly the same

1449
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,400
out because you know what, it's
just imparting knowledge about

1450
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,720
something.
Do I really like?

1451
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:41,320
Do I really care?
I just want to enjoy the

1452
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,280
subject, right?
Maths and English I think is

1453
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,400
what we were kind of rooting our
thoughts in before.

1454
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,560
I think you can just teach maths
or like I always self market end

1455
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,800
of maths and kind of by the end
of the self marking, I, I feel

1456
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,560
like I've just, I already know,
I've got the idea from the

1457
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,280
reactions from the class, I'm
having a look around when

1458
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,320
they're self marking.
I just already know what I need

1459
00:55:58,320 --> 00:55:59,960
to know.
I reckon I could probably not

1460
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:04,160
look at 99% of the books, like
sorry, I reckon I could not look

1461
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,000
at the books 99% of the time and
it would make 0 difference.

1462
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,320
I really do think that I don't
think I even need to flick

1463
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,560
through the books.
English I think maybe a bit more

1464
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,400
because it's so nuanced in terms
of I just need to know if when

1465
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,400
you're writing of the 19 bits of
punctuation that you should

1466
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,680
learn at this point, are you,
what are you getting right?

1467
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,680
So English, I think you do need
to look for a bit more or, but

1468
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:23,760
yeah, I don't know.
It's interesting.

1469
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,160
Are you saying?
Just to clarify, on maths, you

1470
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,800
don't have to look because you
can kind of pick that up already

1471
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:29,000
yourself.
I really do think so.

1472
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,600
And I think if you have to pick
it up though, is what?

1473
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:31,560
I'm saying, yeah, you've got to
pick it up.

1474
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,600
That process of the formative
assessment, yes, that that has

1475
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,880
to exist because I think a lot
of people might misinterpret it

1476
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,080
slightly what you're saying and
like what you want about, of

1477
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,880
course, but you're saying you
can know where a child is on

1478
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,960
their journey without after the
lesson for half an hour sat with

1479
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:46,320
their book open.
I'm going to summarise it now.

1480
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,440
I think I can achieve what we
achieve with what we think

1481
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,640
Markings doing in the lesson
without ever looking at the

1482
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:53,160
books.
Yeah, yeah.

1483
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:54,480
I don't really.
I do think that.

1484
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,760
I think there are some instances
where I don't and you know what,

1485
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,320
I'll look at the books that
time, but 99% of the time it's

1486
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:02,800
not going to impact what my next
lesson is planned it the

1487
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:04,400
weekend.
I'm doing it anyway, right?

1488
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,400
The only thing that might happen
is, oh, they didn't get this.

1489
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:07,880
I'm going to extend the lesson I
did today.

1490
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:09,560
I'm going to push everything
back, right.

1491
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,720
I just, yeah, I don't know.
I think, I think marking is

1492
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:17,640
mostly pointless because what we
think we're doing with it can be

1493
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,400
done more efficiently, is what
I'm saying.

1494
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,000
I don't think, I think we both
agree with this.

1495
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,720
Yeah, Yeah.
You shouldn't just scrap marking

1496
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,360
and then your standards drop
because you, because you're now

1497
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,840
not even assessing the kids.
I think you can just do it in

1498
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,080
the lessons formatively,
passively, so really easily.

1499
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:32,520
Yeah.
So what's important?

1500
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:33,960
Is assessment of the children,
Yeah.

1501
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,440
It's not the act of writing in
their book that's separating

1502
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,240
those two things out, because we
think writing in their book is

1503
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,760
evidencing that a teacher has
done that assessment.

1504
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,480
What we're saying is ignore
that.

1505
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:47,560
You can still trust your
teachers to be doing the

1506
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,560
assessment and you can still do
the assessment in different ways

1507
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:50,760
and.
Save time.

1508
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,760
So much time and that I think.
Was what it comes down to in

1509
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,440
terms of that broader question
of what do you actually have to

1510
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:57,920
do as a teacher and what can you
get rid of.

1511
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,240
Yeah, yeah.
It has to come down to balancing

1512
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:04,240
the impact that something has
with the input you put in.

1513
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,080
And I still I absolutely.
I will die by this sword.

1514
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,160
I think we are the worst
profession in the world for it.

1515
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,200
Yeah, we do stuff because it's
what's done so often.

1516
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,120
And I just sit there and I
think, what am I doing?

1517
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,600
Yeah, what, what I've got a part
of books here.

1518
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:21,120
It's an RE lesson on on
Christianity and, you know,

1519
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:22,840
let's just say helping other
people.

1520
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,480
Why am I ticking this where it's
just there's three examples of

1521
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,800
how they've helped someone.
Yeah, what am I doing?

1522
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,800
I think to answer that question
now, because when you re pitched

1523
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,840
it, what you have to do and what
can you leave out?

1524
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,320
Sure, in the context of the last
10 minutes of our conversation,

1525
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,280
you have to know what your kids
need to learn next.

1526
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,600
Sure, you you can leave out the
marking.

1527
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,320
You don't have to mark to know
it that that.

1528
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:45,880
To me is it.
Yeah, you know.

1529
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:48,480
Yeah, yeah, completely,
completely.

1530
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:53,560
And again, last thing on this
topic, if we are going to solve

1531
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,040
this crisis that I think I've
said this question every single

1532
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,360
time, this sentence STEM, every
single lesson, the retention

1533
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,000
crisis of teachers leaving in
drives and and not enough people

1534
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,080
training.
If we're actually going to solve

1535
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,400
this, this is the kind of thing
we have to really talk about.

1536
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,840
Don't put a thing out there
saying, well, you don't have to

1537
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,560
do a display anymore.
Let's get down to the brass

1538
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:14,520
tacks of it.
We're spending hours and hours a

1539
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,480
week marking.
People are taking books home to

1540
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,360
mark, get rid of root that
culture out from the top down

1541
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,200
the edge.
I want to see Bridget Phillipson

1542
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,240
come out and say don't take
marking home.

1543
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,400
That's ridiculous.
Yeah, I want to see her saying

1544
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,440
that because then heads will
hear her say it.

1545
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,200
People will be empowered to say,
well, the education secretary

1546
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,760
saying this, the leader of the
union is saying this.

1547
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:35,880
The leader of Ofsted is saying
this.

1548
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,520
Until those three people work in
unison and have a real drive to

1549
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,480
actually fix these big problems,
of course people are going to

1550
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,280
shrug their shoulders and moan
behind closed doors and end up

1551
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:47,600
becoming resentful and do it
anyway.

1552
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:48,760
And then get burned out and
leave.

1553
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,000
Of course they are.
Has to come from the top down,

1554
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,480
grow a backbone.
I want to see you come out and

1555
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:55,440
do a bit more Bridget Phillips.
And I've been a bit underwhelmed

1556
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,800
to be perfectly honest with you,
because it's taught the talk

1557
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,200
beforehand.
It's easy to rinse people.

1558
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:00,560
We did it with the Tories all
the time.

1559
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,840
It's easy to look at Gillian
Keegan and what she did and go

1560
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:04,200
like, you don't care about us,
It's ridiculous.

1561
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:05,280
We need someone who cares about
us.

1562
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:07,640
When they were campaigning it
was easy for Bridget Phillips

1563
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,240
and to say we're going to be
different, we're going to do

1564
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,400
this, we're going to do that.
I think they're starting stuff.

1565
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,000
I think they had the right tone
at the start, I think they spoke

1566
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,520
to the right people.
But what have they done really,

1567
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,480
in three months?
Nothing really, really.

1568
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,400
And I'm sure there's stuff on
the way and we're going to give

1569
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,080
the benefit of the doubt because
you can't do anything in three

1570
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:24,960
months.
I understand that.

1571
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,160
But the rhetoric could be a bit
stronger if you really cared

1572
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,120
about actually solving this.
You know, we could have hearing

1573
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,160
a lot more from her.
And I'm, I'm well into the

1574
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:33,880
politics and stuff and I'm not
hearing much.

1575
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,960
I'm not hearing a go.
Let's solve this crisis.

1576
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,040
Let's get down to it.
OK?

1577
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:40,960
You're making a new curriculum.
Nice.

1578
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:41,680
Cool.
Can I?

1579
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,480
Am I going to be able to spend
time with my son this weekend?

1580
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:45,360
OK, cool.
Well, bye.

1581
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,560
Then yeah, yeah, yeah, come on,
be a bit stronger.

1582
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:50,760
Let's actually solve this with
some big changes.

1583
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,160
Make teaching.
A job that people want to do

1584
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,560
again.
Let's solve the crisis looking

1585
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,720
at the time.
We are pretty much up now to a

1586
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,240
long episode.
We do have a bunch of questions

1587
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:03,240
that people have written into us
and I do really want to go

1588
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:04,080
through them.
If they were really good

1589
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,520
questions, sure, let's try
something.

1590
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:08,720
You may have remembered a few
months ago.

1591
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,040
We did little bonus episodes,
tried it out.

1592
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,120
We didn't have the time to do it
because we had newborns and what

1593
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:16,600
we were thinking.
But let's do AQ and A as a small

1594
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,480
little bite size episode.
And if you want to listen to

1595
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,200
that Q&A, if you sent any
questions in, just simply click

1596
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:23,800
onto it because we'll release it
this week.

1597
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:25,440
So we'll release this episode on
the Monday.

1598
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:27,320
We'll release the Q&A at some
point this week.

1599
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:28,880
That's saying Wednesday.
Yeah, brilliant.

1600
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:29,880
Let's do.
That nice one.

1601
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,000
Cool tune into that one, guys.
Wednesday and.

1602
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:33,880
We've gone past 100 reviews on
Spotify.

1603
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,800
Yeah, so I.
Think in total we're up to like

1604
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,720
150 ish.
They help so much and I really

1605
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,200
appreciate you guys A for
listening, that's amazing.

1606
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,000
B for sharing it with people and
C for giving us a review, right?

1607
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,280
Which you're going to do if you
haven't already.

1608
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,920
We want 1000 new threshold.
That is the problem of

1609
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:54,840
milestones.
Like milestones feel good for

1610
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,880
honestly 5 seconds and you're
like cool, what comes after 102

1611
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,000
hundred?
Yeah, Next one please, guys.

1612
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:00,560
Thank.
You so much for.

1613
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,680
Listening, Hope you found that
interesting, insightful and

1614
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:05,440
useful.
Leaning forward again, aren't

1615
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:06,080
we?
Are we doing it?

1616
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:07,800
Let's finish off.
See you at the Q&A.

1617
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:09,120
Listen to the Q&A.