Ep 81: Why Is Education So Obsessed With 'Reinventing The Wheel'?

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Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teach.

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My name is Dylan and.
My name is Hayden.

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We're back, Hayden, with another
episode.

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I always say that when I'm not
sure how to continue.

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I'm excited too.
And I'm going to start off with

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one thing.
Welcome if you are new listener,

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because I'm not being dramatic.
It has actually doubled in the

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last like two or three weeks.
People are listening to this.

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So thank you so much for coming
along for the ride.

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A lot of you guys coming from
Instagram.

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We're going to touch on that in
a second, but firstly I just

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want to start off with how your
week's been Haiden.

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Bit of a catch up.
We've both been in school.

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Obviously you had something you
wanted to say about pupils.

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Yeah, so, so kind of outside of
school, I guess, but I've.

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No, I don't want to hear about
it then, but obviously we've.

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Been in the game for 10 years
now and when we started, we both

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started in year 4.
And I am starting to see more

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and more and more and more when
I go out and about now because

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obviously I live fairly close to
where we've worked all this

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time.
Old pupils who are just adults

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now.
And it freaks me out because in

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my head, I'm still 23.
I've just started teaching.

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Like it's only been a couple of
years.

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They can't be old yet.
They probably still look like

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they used to look.
They're maybe like, you know, an

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inch taller.
No, they're just full on adults.

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So I was in a shop half a day
just buying some bits for, you

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know, my never ending bathroom
project.

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Oh, that bathroom project is
still going.

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Probably people who are
listening two months ago might

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have heard used.
To Yeah, yeah, that same one,

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yeah.
The bathroom, which is 2 metres

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by two metres.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, Yeah, that one, the one,
there's nothing in there right

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now, right?
The one that we're really

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quickly trying to record this.
Yeah, because there's a title

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coming around.
Yeah, and this.

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Podcast Studio is obviously just
the other side of a of a work

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site, so exactly that, yeah, I
don't know why we rented the

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studio right next to a work site
that happens to be my house,

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this tiny third.
Bedroom just awful.

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I was buying some bits for that
and the I say the kid, the man,

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the man that served me.
I was just thinking, I know you.

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Yeah.
And I was like, Oh my God, I

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taught you nine years ago.
Did you mention it here?

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No, I didn't say.
Usually I would, but he didn't

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look like, I think you can tell,
can't you, when they sort of

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look at you and double take,
like, oh, I know that person.

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And he was just like totally in
work zone.

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Yeah, yeah.
And I thought, I'm not going to

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say anything because I didn't
teach him that much.

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Like he was in my year grade,
but maybe for like once a week,

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like a carousel sort of thing.
And I was like, Oh my God, I

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feel.
Old, well, ten years, 10 years

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from their point of view to you,
you probably won't look too much

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different, obviously.
Whereas 10 years for us, it's

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insane when we see these like
children to adults, that teenage

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year gap where we miss
unbelievable amounts have

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changed.
It's crazy.

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Have you met anyone yet?
Like out in a pub.

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Only that time that we went out,
yeah, and that person was

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working behind the pub.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So not being able to serve
alcohol, not quite 18 yeah, but

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was doing a little job we're.
Like, hey, we.

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Talk yeah yeah that was crazy
but I've I've not yet had that

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either where I've been just gone
to the gone to a pub for a drink

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and they're also and they're
also just at the pub because

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because I think now is the time
where in year 8 sorry in years

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in year 4 they're eight years
old aren't they 8 turning 9 yeah

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so so now is the point where 10
years this year they're turning

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yeah I have turned 18 but the.
Problem Half the problem is we

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don't go to pubs.
In fact, we have time to.

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Do it either we're perfectly
timed having children and and

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not going to the pub anymore
when our ex pupils go to the pub

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and I think that's just nature
telling me something.

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So don't worry anymore.
Just stay at home.

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Well, kind of leaks it out, I
suppose.

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This is completely nothing to do
with school.

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So you're you're allowed.
Yeah, I'm allowed to say that

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because I am the host, the
anchor, the Rory.

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My son is 1 as of recording this
tomorrow.

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So this comes out on Monday.
Rory will be one on Saturday.

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Can you wrap that?
Can I rap what this podcast

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episode?
Can you rap what you just said?

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Oh, Rory, my son is one, right?
God started rhyming.

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I know you because you're
normally when I when I give you

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this kind of challenge, you kind
of go off on one and my heart's

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open.
No.

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Because I'm in a, I'm in a
reflective mood here.

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No, fair enough.
I'm not in a, I'm not in a very,

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you know, angst, angsty, no
rappy mood.

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Yeah, you wouldn't do.
That the only rap I'm thinking

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of is wrapping his presence up,
which he will not remember.

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There is a part of me, you know,
when I'm going to rush home

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after this to get everything
ready.

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There you go.
I just wait.

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He won't know anything so but
you know, we've gotten some

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bits.
We're having family over

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tomorrow.
We're going to the zoo on Sunday

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with mates and that.
Are you having one of those

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absolutely mad like Instagram
parties where they spent 7 grand

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on some huge place with like
massive balloon arches?

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New one?
Well, this I wanted.

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To touch on this, because I've
justified the stuff we have

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done, we're not going remotely
over the top like that.

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Lawrence bought some, Lawrence
bought some like balloons to

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make like a little arch thing.
OK.

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There's like going to be a one
balloon.

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We're obviously going to wrap
everything up, set it all out

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for him and morning cake,
there's a cake on the way.

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He's going to do a cake smash a
nice little while I do a little

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photo shoot of us doing a cake
smash.

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So we're doing all this stuff.
And I thought it is, Do you know

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what I've really come around to
the idea of?

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I would be very cynical 10 years
ago and I'd be like, what are

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you doing?
Oh my God, So stupid.

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You can't do anything.
Yeah, actually, no, it's from.

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It's for us, isn't it?
It's for the bears.

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Because then you take the
pictures, the memories, like the

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key can look back on it and see
what's happened.

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And also from our point of view,
it'll be a nice day with him.

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We'll enjoy it.
And it is for us as well As for

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him.
And I think it'd be really.

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Exactly.
The picture.

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He won't remember it, but he
will.

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But he will at some point look
back at those pictures and be

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like, oh, they really love me.
Yeah.

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Do you know what I mean?
That's what you wanted.

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Yeah.
They really celebrated my first

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birthday because.
Because they love me.

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And what's that worth?
A few £100.

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Yeah.
Are there any Instagram trends

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for birthdays that you haven't
done or have you just?

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No, no, no, I don't see.
The thing is this is something I

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was going to make a joke now,
but this is genuine.

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But this is genuine.
We will maybe talk about this

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because I still can't get my
head round people who work in

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education and teaching, who post
pictures of their kids online.

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And I know you, you've come to
the conclusion you're online

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that that's fine and thousands
of people do.

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And I'm not saying it's
inherently a bad thing, sure.

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But having gone through like all
of the prevent training and like

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the very stringent, like just
don't do this though, because

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obviously it's the right thing
to do and it's safe.

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And you know, just err on the
side of caution.

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I'm not, I'm not trying to be
no, no, I'm trying to be

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horrible.
I genuinely, I'm just like, I, I

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really want to get into the
minds of people who work in this

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industry who then are like,
yeah, I just put them online.

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It's fine.
Well.

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Like I didn't like our babies.
Yeah, I, I just, it's so funny

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'cause I'm so the opposite.
Yeah, yeah.

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And I'm like.
My honest opinion, this is gonna

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sound really horrible, but this
is the way I justify.

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No, it's fine.
Go is.

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I've just called you.
I've just.

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Said, I'm not saying this to
you, right?

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But my thought is 'cause I do
this with loads of things like

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when people are in in shops
being like, Oh no, I don't wanna

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get contactless card.
My fault is who do you think you

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are?
Nobody cares.

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So do you think all that prevent
training is nonsense?

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I.
Don't all all the safety.

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Anything to do with this?
I don't think it's.

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Nothing, no, no.
All the safety stuff online

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where it's like never, don't
obviously don't post you.

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Can't mind, this is what I find
funny right?

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So your post pictures and people
post pictures of like emojis of

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their face.
I'm like, what do you think?

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Is it that?
Is it just?

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No one's got his face.
Is it just this part that

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matters?
Yeah, that is it.

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Yeah, the identification,
because no one if, if my baby

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was was like, if my baby, you've
got a picture online.

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Yeah, you could identify your
child online because you'd be

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like, oh, I can trace that to
your account, to Lauren's

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account.
I know whose baby this is.

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It's this baby.
And then if I know where Hayden

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lives, I know where this baby
lives and all that kind of

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stuff.
And I'm just like strangers

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online don't need to see his
face.

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That's my opinion.
Where I'm just like, there's no

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need for that to be anywhere.
And with AI and with, you know,

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such ease of manipulation these
days, I don't want his face to

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be on the Internet Willy nilly.
I don't want to be providing

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that like his, his face might
find its way on the Internet

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somehow in the background of
picture when he's gone to soft

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play.
I can't control that obviously,

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but I I can control physically
taking a picture of my child's

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face, putting it online and
pretty much saying, here you go,

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anyone.
Like we've got over 11,000

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nearly 12,000 followers on
Instagram now.

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And I'm just like, oh, I don't
know, probably person I don't

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know personally. 11.5000 of
them, yeah.

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I just don't want my baby's face
though.

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I.
Get it?

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Your point are like totally
logical.

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And I'm not even going to like
pretend that don't aren't valid,

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but I just I just can't.
To me, it's like, I don't know,

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you know what?
I'm always like probabilities,

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right?
I'm always working on that.

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It's I'm like, yeah, do you know
what?

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I could also walk down the
street and get struck by line

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and hit by a car at the same
time.

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I just think it's so
ridiculously unlikely that

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anything could possibly happen
because we're nobody.

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Like people with millions of
followers make vlogs of their

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kids.
And it's like, I just look at

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them like, what?
Who am I?

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Or they can do it but.
Well, I spoke to Lauren about

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this every day because she she's
into this kind of stuff.

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You're Lauren.
I think it's the same way that

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you just get following like a
family on Instagram, on YouTube

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and stuff.
And she she watches this one

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family on YouTube and it does
have young children who, like

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are in their school uniform.
Is that we?

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No, no, no, no, no.
But I think that's one of them.

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It's someone else, young
children in uniform.

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Yeah.
And the video is that the dad

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and the mum surprised them of
the trip to Disneyland.

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Yeah.
And they go away.

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And it means they're missing
Friday at school.

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So that's one thing which
straight away as teachers were

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00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,720
like, oh God, we know that's
bad, but also I don't mind when

226
00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,159
kids go on holiday.
So that's already a grey area,

227
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,000
but there's just kids just
talking.

228
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,880
They're in their school uniform
on a YouTube video, thousands of

229
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,760
views.
That's I'm just like, what are

230
00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,480
you doing?
That's obviously awful.

231
00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:46,280
He's got your school uniform
here with a logo, like just just

232
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,680
everything we've been taught as
teachers, like that's a terrible

233
00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:50,520
thing to do.
And and then we're there as

234
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,480
teachers watching it, taking it
in like this is a nice video.

235
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,200
But also, wait, what?
Isn't this like the exact

236
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,240
opposite of what we say is the
way to be safe online with young

237
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:00,840
children, with young children
now?

238
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,920
You're doing it right, but I
just I just want to ask like,

239
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,600
what do you think would happen?
Genuinely, what do you think

240
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,440
could happen?
Like by posting Rory, that's not

241
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,240
not on our like not on our
podcast one because that is

242
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,080
different.
Like that is 10,000.

243
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,080
I get it.
That's a different level to like

244
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,960
your personal private because
you don't even do it on your

245
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,920
personal private.
That that's probably, I could

246
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,880
probably sit and justify it
doing it, but I've just come on

247
00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,560
the side of.
Just don't do it at.

248
00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:25,680
All yeah, because you're even
even I reckon on everyone's

249
00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:27,600
personal account, if you went
through who follows you on your

250
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,280
personal account, I reckon you'd
find some people who you're

251
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,320
like, I don't actually know you.
I don't actually know who you

252
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,520
are.
Like I've just I know of you,

253
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,000
you in the area.
You're a friend of a friend of a

254
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,920
friend.
And I don't know, I don't know

255
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,920
what you're into.
And the the for me, you've seen

256
00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,400
what AI can do now you've seen
what like you can generate from

257
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,800
a picture.
And I'm just like, not yet.

258
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,640
Yeah, it's it's I'm just.
Concerned I'm online.

259
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,040
No ones no no ones.
AI my my opener.

260
00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:57,960
Yeah, no ones.
Doing it like what?

261
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,240
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe not to you, you're just a

262
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,360
weird middle-aged man like, but
there are weird people out

263
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,120
there, Hayden.
There are weird people out there

264
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,320
with children and stuff and it's
just I, I just again, there are

265
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,640
thousands, hundreds of thousands
of people who do it and it's

266
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:12,480
obviously fine.
Yeah.

267
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,560
I'm just saying from a point of
view of a teacher having sat

268
00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:18,840
through hours of training on
this stuff, I find it counter

269
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,840
intuitive to then just do it.
Yeah.

270
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,240
Fair enough, Maybe I've been
indoctrinated by the no, not

271
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:24,040
safe.
Been indoctrinated.

272
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,920
I think you're just, you've
always been a very I, I you

273
00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,640
always been like this.
I, I kind of, I don't think I'd

274
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,000
even you'd need to have a baby
for me to work out that that

275
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,560
would be your opinion genuinely,
because I just know.

276
00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:35,600
What you're No, no one was
shocked when we said we're not

277
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:36,560
uploading.
Yeah, you're.

278
00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:38,240
Very because that is very you,
and I don't think it's a bad

279
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,040
thing at all.
But I don't think what you're

280
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,920
doing is, is inherently bad.
No, I or the only point I'm

281
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,840
making is I, I would love to get
into the mind.

282
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,120
And I have done here a bit, to
be fair.

283
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:48,560
Yeah.
Of a teacher who sat through all

284
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:51,600
that training and then decided
to kind of almost go against it

285
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,440
or, or, or at least just say,
well, you know, I understand all

286
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:55,800
those risks, but I'm choosing
this.

287
00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,560
I I was very interested.
In that jump bit, funny enough,

288
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,200
yeah, because the training to me
is like.

289
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,520
Is it specifically different?
Yeah, I don't know, maybe it's

290
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,640
just a one step away where it's
like when your kid is, when your

291
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,600
teenage daughter at 13 year old,
thirteen years old is like a

292
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,640
prime suspect for, you know,
just all that horrible life.

293
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,040
Then we'll get into it all
horrible side.

294
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:15,560
I thought we all know exists,
right?

295
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,280
It's like you maybe, maybe don't
post the pictures of them all

296
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:20,840
over the Internet in their
uniform.

297
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,840
Yeah.
Like it's uniform is more for

298
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,120
tracking and stuff.
That's what I mean.

299
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,160
Like it's just easy.
It's easy to find them away from

300
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:27,600
whereas but it just general
pictures.

301
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,080
I'm like, OK, I can walk down
the street and the same people

302
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:31,280
can see me with my child.
I don't.

303
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,400
I don't really care if people
see me and pictures of my child.

304
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,120
My child is one of billions.
Like I just nobody cares.

305
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,080
Honestly.
My honest thought is nobody

306
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,560
cares.
OK, nobody cares.

307
00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:43,160
That is my honest.
Thought maybe I'm cynical.

308
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:44,880
I don't.
I'd love to help people think

309
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,160
genuinely because we follow
people who do both.

310
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,400
And again, I think it's enough
widespread on both sides where

311
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,600
there's clearly not an obvious
answer, else it would be way

312
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,680
more, way more one way.
So I'm very interested.

313
00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:58,800
It depends how much you think
the risk is.

314
00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,880
As simple as that isn't it?
If you think the risk is risky

315
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,080
enough, do not do it.
OK?

316
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,280
Just don't do it then.
Like objectively it's just

317
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,480
regardless of our opinions, your
child is at less risk than mine.

318
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,280
By definition.
Well, yeah, OK, Yeah, OK.

319
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:11,560
Because.
I am posting pictures and and

320
00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:12,880
you like you said those things
do exist.

321
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,320
I just don't think that exist
enough for me to be.

322
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,800
Remotely worried about it like.
And I just I'll share pictures

323
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,360
on my Instagram to my 300 not
even that like 200 and.

324
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:20,760
Something.
Yeah.

325
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,920
And it's closed and you do, you
know you are in control at least

326
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:25,360
of that aren't?
You but you know, we shared a

327
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,400
picture.
You shared a picture on on our.

328
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,080
Yeah, before the whole blow up.
Hey, dude.

329
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:31,800
Yeah, yeah.
And but it doesn't bother me.

330
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:32,840
I'm not I'm.
Not Yeah, that's fine.

331
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,760
The other day I post, I think I
posted a meme, very popular meme

332
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,800
at the minute, of this boy who's
like a youth pastor, who's a

333
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,040
child who's on like Ellen
DeGeneres or something old, an

334
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,360
old show.
And it's the mean way he's

335
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,360
going.
Yes, yes, yes.

336
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:50,920
And he's doing like a sermon
basically.

337
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:52,840
And he must be like for this
kid.

338
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:53,440
Oh, OK.
Yeah.

339
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,360
And, and I made a meme out of
it.

340
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:57,560
I didn't think twice about it.
And I was just like, I made a

341
00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,560
silly meme.
It was when you're doing your

342
00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:01,720
marking, you get to the last
three books and you remember

343
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,200
they were on and you're like,
yes, because you're going home

344
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:05,600
early.
And I posted it.

345
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,320
I know you're like only
honestly, like 4 hours later

346
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,560
when I saw the notifications
coming through, I was like, oh,

347
00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:12,120
that.
Should I have posted that?

348
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:13,640
Yeah, I have just posted someone
else's kid.

349
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:15,880
Like, I know they agreed to go
on television.

350
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,520
And I suppose my point here is
that's why I don't do it for

351
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,000
Rory because I've seen this meme
online.

352
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,360
I've gone, well, they, the
parents and the child decided it

353
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,360
was fine to go on TV.
So it's fair game.

354
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,960
I can make a meme out of it.
It's nothing.

355
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,000
It's safe.
It's and I'm like, oh, wait, I

356
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,520
don't think I'd like that the
other way around.

357
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,440
And then I started thinking of a
million things of where is my

358
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,200
line if we got invited on ATV
show.

359
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,640
Yeah.
And they wanted to film a little

360
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,640
bit where it's just with the
family and Rory's playing

361
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,360
Exactly.
Would would I say no to that?

362
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,360
And I'm like, it's so funny.
I probably would be OK with

363
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:45,760
that.
Yeah.

364
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,120
Despite that being millions
thousand times worse than

365
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,560
anything you've discussed.
Yeah, exactly.

366
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:51,200
And that's why I'm like, I
really had like an inner

367
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,760
monologue like argument with
myself almost of what is

368
00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,400
acceptable.
And that's why I wanted to ask

369
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:57,640
that question.
Basically, I don't need to think

370
00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:58,680
I'm just attacking you.
No, I'm not.

371
00:13:58,680 --> 00:13:59,880
I really I really want to get to
the bottom of.

372
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:00,760
It, but I've always found it
funny.

373
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,320
I'm glad you brought it up
because I've always wanted to

374
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,880
say without being without being
offensive to you, like no, so

375
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,840
offensive.
Why do you think like it

376
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:07,440
matters?
Sort of.

377
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,720
Thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

378
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,280
Interesting.
Well, that wasn't remotely

379
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:11,360
planned.
That was really interesting.

380
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,240
We're doing the pod.
Yeah, we're finished on some

381
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,360
nice comments in this in the
catch up because I just wanted

382
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,520
to reflect really quickly.
Yeah, about the fact that

383
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,760
honestly in the last, I think in
the last week or two, we have

384
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,720
literally gained I think maybe
in the month we've gained about

385
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,280
four or 5000 followers on our
Instagram insane.

386
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,600
And that is translating to
listeners to the podcast.

387
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,680
And one thing that has been
unreal for the last two weeks

388
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,080
have been the constant ream of
people getting in touch with us

389
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,480
either on a comment on a real or
via a message, very much more

390
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,560
detailed DDM, where people are
basically saying, thank you for

391
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,960
talking about this.
No, it's nice and it's lovely

392
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,680
because we, we sometimes I worry
and I know you do that we can

393
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,800
when we really get our teeth
into an issue, for example,

394
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,320
talking about, you know,
basically being a teacher and

395
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,200
how it's unmanageable.
I did a reel where it was me

396
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:02,960
talking about how I'm scared I'm
going to quit.

397
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,320
And I just explained how I love
teaching, but I'm, I think I'm

398
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:06,520
heading towards quitting this
job.

399
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,480
That's where I think the road is
taking me.

400
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,160
You know, we've spoken about
just in general.

401
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,960
You spoke about the fact you've
got a young family now and you

402
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,480
don't understand it.
It seems to be incompatible.

403
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,560
Yeah.
And there's been so many people

404
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,360
when we put out there, we didn't
know we get this response, but

405
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,080
so many people who are saying,
Oh my God, thank you.

406
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:25,920
Thank you for talking about
this.

407
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:27,960
Thank.
This is exactly how I feel.

408
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,920
I hate that I think I'm going to
quit teaching.

409
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,560
I love teaching.
It's what I'm good at.

410
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,120
It's what I've become a
professional at.

411
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,920
But everything around it is so
crap that I'm scared I'm going

412
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,000
to quit as well.
So it's going.

413
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,920
To be a bit more of a taboo than
we realised, isn't it?

414
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,160
Because we've always talked
quite openly about these things.

415
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,360
And I think we maybe forget
because we do create our own,

416
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,360
our own echo chain.
But we say this on the podcast a

417
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,080
lot.
Dylan and I tend to agree on

418
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,160
most things and we do try
actively to sort of challenge

419
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,560
each other now a bit more.
But yeah, maybe it just made us

420
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,800
realise that actually a lot of
people don't talk about it at

421
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,360
all, and it is kind of just
refreshing to just chat about it

422
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,720
and we'll do it out in the open
so that hopefully you guys can

423
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,680
engage with that conversation.
We will continue to do it

424
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,760
because it's really refreshing
to see people saying, yes, I

425
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,960
agree.
And and you know, 95%, ninety 8%

426
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,440
of the comments were like that.
They're really positive.

427
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,600
And there was one real, I think
you wanted to mention something

428
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,600
about it was a real basically
saying what is what?

429
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,640
Here's the benefit to being an
amazing teacher.

430
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:25,720
It was a really good one.
When you posted it, I said I

431
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,640
messaged you didn't.
I said, oh, that's provocative,

432
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:28,320
right?
Yeah.

433
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,320
Because it basically said is
there there's like there's no

434
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:31,320
reward.
Sure.

435
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,240
The real that Dylan posted, if
you've not seen it, is

436
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,960
something, it says something on
the lines at the beginning.

437
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,600
So I've got it playing right now
that there's no there's zero

438
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,880
reward for being a good teacher.
Yeah, what?

439
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,360
What do you actually get?
Like in any other walk of life,

440
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,480
if you're good at something,
what's the reward for being

441
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,160
good?
Amazing teachers are punished

442
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,760
with extra workload and 0 and
responsibility with zero reward

443
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,800
is what you put.
And I thought that's going to

444
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,240
get some people's backed up.
And it was interesting 'cause

445
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,000
most of the comments, despite
what I thought, did actually

446
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,120
agree and just kind of make
Sarki comments like, oh, what

447
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,680
you get is extra workload and
and the toughest class next.

448
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But there are a few comments

449
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,960
that I just thought I, I just, I
didn't talk to you about that

450
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,119
because I wanted to just.
Throw them at me.

451
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,240
I want to.
Throw them because I want to get

452
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:07,720
your raw.
Opinion.

453
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,520
Yeah, OK, let's do it I.
Want to see if you get like get

454
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,400
if it gets your back up, or
whether you just have like an

455
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,160
actual response to it.
Because I'm not being funny as

456
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:14,839
well.
Genuinely, I've got the

457
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:18,680
Instagram and I miss 75% of the
comments at the minute because

458
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:19,599
it's just too much.
Because you're.

459
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:21,000
Not like you often respond or
like.

460
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:21,520
Them.
Yeah, yeah.

461
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:22,640
You haven't done it to some.
Of these, yeah.

462
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,000
So here's one that I thought was
interesting.

463
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,760
Really short answer, someone
just put, the answer is

464
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,080
intrinsic satisfaction.
That's what you get.

465
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,240
I mean, that's true, right?
But I think you can get

466
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,680
intrinsic satisfaction by not
doing 4 hours of planning at the

467
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,960
weekend and just teaching a
lesson nicely to the kids.

468
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,680
I feel like I get intrinsic
satisfaction and I don't

469
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,400
necessarily go above and beyond
and have loads of extra

470
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,920
responsibility in the classroom.
I think, do you know what?

471
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:54,840
I understand what that person is
saying.

472
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,560
I don't want to completely RIP
apart what they're saying

473
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,480
because because it is true.
If you're a good teacher, you

474
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,120
get more of the kids and you do
probably get more satisfaction.

475
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,640
But I, I think there has to be a
point where that's not a good

476
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,480
enough answer, is it?
That's not really a

477
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,280
justification for squeezing pay
for 15 years.

478
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,680
It's not really a justification
to look at someone who's doing

479
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,800
really well and say to them, oh,
well, actually you can do more

480
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,800
now because you're, you're
getting more out of the kids.

481
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,720
You're more valuable, so you can
do more.

482
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,320
So sorry, go back to that, But
you just said I'm more valuable.

483
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,400
Oh, can I get like a monetary or
can I?

484
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,840
No, no, no, no.
We just want you to do more

485
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,000
stuff, please, because you're
good at it.

486
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,000
Yeah, the word valuable is like
it's broken the second you say

487
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:33,560
that.
Yeah, you know what that means?

488
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:34,760
Yeah.
So that's valuable.

489
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,160
Yeah.
That's my response to that one.

490
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:37,640
That was quite a lot.
I'm just going to read a couple

491
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:38,840
more because it'll be the same
response.

492
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,160
But there's quite, there was
quite a theme.

493
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:41,760
Like someone else said, self
gratification.

494
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,680
That's typically why people want
to be teachers.

495
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,040
This whole that whole toxic
culture of don't do it then if

496
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,880
you don't want it, you do it
because you love.

497
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,200
It it is, it is honestly double
edged sword that where there are

498
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,400
two answers which both
completely rinse that the

499
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,560
outlook answer 1 is like I
always say, people are leaving,

500
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,200
that what you're saying isn't a
solution.

501
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,960
People are leaving because it's
awful.

502
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,720
We'll just leave then.
I do you want to stop people

503
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,080
leaving because that's not what
we want.

504
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,400
And the other edge of that sort
is, yeah, let's let's just

505
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,320
completely dismantle that.
You know, you can go into a job

506
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,120
because you want to and because
you can get lots of out out of

507
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:18,520
it and because it's amazing for
society, which we all seem to

508
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,720
agree, by the way.
But these jobs were like, this

509
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,400
is great for society and you get
a lot out of it.

510
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,960
But but it's the one of the
least well paying jobs compared

511
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,840
to being a a quantity surveyor.
No, Dylan, because no, you're

512
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,080
missing the point.
Actually, you're completely

513
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,400
wrong because this person said
teachers aren't financially

514
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,600
driven or they wouldn't be
teachers.

515
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,280
You've you've, they've got you
there, aren't they?

516
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:36,800
Yeah, they've got me there, got
me there.

517
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,800
Because you know what, The
reason I became a teacher isn't

518
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,000
to put food on my plate and pay
my energy bills on my mortgage,

519
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,160
which is skyrocketed.
Yeah, I'm about to refix my

520
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,360
mortgage in the next few weeks.
Yeah, and my remortgage payments

521
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,360
are going to go up by about two
to £300.

522
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,400
So do you know what fair play my
love for children pays for?

523
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,440
That I've got one more for you.
OK.

524
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,120
And this one, this is the only
one that I thought that's just

525
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:55,760
quite interesting.
I think you might you might have

526
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:56,880
even replied to this.
I don't know.

527
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,200
Yeah, I know you didn't.
Someone else did.

528
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,800
Cool.
It starts with I think you get a

529
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,160
genuine self sense of fulfilment
to try to recover.

530
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,280
True.
And then he says most kids also

531
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,320
recognise and appreciate an
excellent teacher.

532
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,280
Generally speaking, your life in
the classroom is also easier and

533
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,960
more enjoyable because there are
fewer behaviour problems and

534
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,320
more engagement.
So if you're a good teacher,

535
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,240
it's it's saying that actually
your life is better because you

536
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,800
don't get as many behaviour
issues.

537
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,560
The kids respect you more as a
result.

538
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,080
So I thought that was an
interesting one.

539
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,800
What do you want to say?
To that, you know what I think

540
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,240
that's, I think that's actually
right.

541
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,560
I think that's correct.
Because if if you know what,

542
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,320
cutting it down to what it was,
I was asking what the good

543
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,760
teachers get right.
And that is something they get.

544
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:35,680
I was, I was hinting at, you
know, actual reward.

545
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,080
Yeah, actual monetary value, you
know, time out to do something.

546
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,560
But you know what?
That is absolutely right.

547
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,480
Because if you're a better
teacher, you do tend to have

548
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,720
more control over your class.
But but, but I'm going to

549
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,720
preface this massively because
it doesn't matter how good a

550
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,400
teacher you are, some of it is
out of your control.

551
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,960
It is not as simplest to say the
teachers in charge of behaviour

552
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:57,480
done.
It's not like that.

553
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,640
We all know that because we
could swap with another teacher

554
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,920
and go into their class and have
a much harder time with.

555
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,400
Behaviour 100% Well, we've done
it.

556
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,760
Surely you've had I've had at
least at least one class in my

557
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,320
whole career where I felt like I
was totally out of control and

558
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,600
their behaviour was like unruly.
I could I couldn't control and

559
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,840
I've started to think, Oh my
God, I'm not a very good

560
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,560
teacher.
I just and it without my

561
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,920
control.
I just could not control them.

562
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,520
No one could have.
And that's where that comment,

563
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,240
although I get what they're
saying and there is truth to it

564
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,840
that it is.
If you're better, it is easier.

565
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,360
Doesn't mean it's necessarily
easy though.

566
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,680
And I don't want anyone to sit
here and watch this and think

567
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,800
and listen to this rather and
think, oh God, I struggle with

568
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,040
behaviour.
Is that because I'm a bad

569
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:37,880
teacher?
Bad teacher?

570
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,080
No, not at all, because anyone
would struggle with a certain

571
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,560
class.
So let's just dismantle that

572
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,120
direct correlation that you're
trying to build there, a loose

573
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:47,920
correlation.
But yeah, I get it.

574
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,560
Yeah, interesting.
OK, well, but.

575
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,000
No one really addressed the
point though.

576
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,600
No one actually addressed the
point of it.

577
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,200
Should there be some financial
gain though?

578
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,040
If you're literally better as a
teacher because, you know,

579
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,320
whatever we met, however that
metric is measured, I don't

580
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,840
know.
Then there is basically what we

581
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,800
were trying to say is there's no
incentive.

582
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,080
There's nothing that's like,
hey, if you kind of like meet

583
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,360
these targets and do this,
actually there's this incentive.

584
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:11,920
You don't have to.
You can just be a teacher and

585
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,360
just crack on with your job or
if you really want to drive for

586
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,160
these things and push these
things and be a subject leader

587
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,200
and do this and then maybe work
up the ladder and blah, blah.

588
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,640
There's just no incentive for
it, and the financial incentive

589
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,360
is not there.
The whole sector, along with

590
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:25,320
many others, is built on
goodwill.

591
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,040
Yeah.
And if that could well was

592
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,960
eroded, and you know what, it's
being eroded, which is why we

593
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,680
have the retention crisis.
I think at the end of this

594
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,280
podcast, we might talk a little
bit about how to actually fix

595
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,000
this because it's kind of links
to what we're going to talk

596
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:38,920
about.
If we actually want to fix it,

597
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,400
then that's what we really need
to target.

598
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,280
The erosion of goodwill is what
is breaking.

599
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,480
This we got to how we fix it
because we got rinsed by someone

600
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,640
the other day, didn't we?
Saying yeah, you're just moaning

601
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,320
about the problem though, and
you're not telling us how to

602
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,160
fix.
It you know it was.

603
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,160
Like, it's the podcast, mate.
We're just, we're just talking

604
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,560
about the problems.
All right, leave, leave us

605
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:56,760
alone, all right?
We don't know the answers.

606
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,200
Well, we do.
We do tend to in actual podcast

607
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,240
talk about, you know, what we
could do instead.

608
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,440
So that's the problem with
posting short form content is

609
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,520
the context.
Yeah, the context is gone a lot

610
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,240
of the time, Right.
Anyway, let's play this Jingle.

611
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,320
We've had a long chat.
We're going, I'm going to spend

612
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,640
the next half of this episode
talking about something that we

613
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,480
mentioned last week, which I
think is a massive bugbear for

614
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,360
us too.
And it's reinventing the wheel.

615
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:23,680
I can't wait.
Reinventing the wheel.

616
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,600
That's what we're going to talk
about this week because as

617
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,760
teachers been in the game for
like we said almost 10 years

618
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:29,920
each now and we're still in the
game.

619
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,480
We are starting to see the
reinvention off said wheel.

620
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,040
So when we talk in education
about the obsession that we have

621
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,680
as educators to do something
over and over again, what are we

622
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:43,760
actually talking about?
What?

623
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,920
What is reinventing the wheel in
the terms of education?

624
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,440
Why is it a problem?
Like what is the current

625
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,640
situation we're in?
In education, reinventing the

626
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:54,640
wheel is when you are planning
from scratch every single year

627
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,960
for some reason, despite the
planning existing for those

628
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,880
objectives, not only just in
your school, but perhaps in your

629
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,640
county or in your trust or even
just in the country.

630
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,600
Because we're all kind of
teaching the same thing.

631
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,960
And it is getting to the point
where you're 10 years in, not

632
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,200
thinking of anyone in particular
here, where you're 10 years in

633
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,280
and you're still finding
yourself every year just

634
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,560
replanning and replanning and
replanning from scratch, From

635
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:18,760
scratch.
And you think, Oh my God, I've

636
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,360
taught the same year group for
five years in a row.

637
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,320
Why on earth am I still sat
there at the weekends?

638
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,280
Because let's face it, it's not
a school time, is it at the

639
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,280
weekends planning lessons from
scratch for objectives that have

640
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,760
been here for 10 years.
That's what I'm talking about

641
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,400
when I'm mentioning and
reinventing the one.

642
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,680
I don't understand why we have
got to this date.

643
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,280
Why is that happening then?
Why is that a thing?

644
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,960
Because, you know, someone might
say to you.

645
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,680
And we've heard people outside
of education multiple times when

646
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,640
we've mentioned this, who are in
different industries who say

647
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,720
why?
Yeah, So what?

648
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,240
What's called?
Why don't you just use the old

649
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,600
just?
For a real quick bit of context,

650
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,720
I had someone painting, you
know, the never ending bathroom

651
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:54,360
that.
We talked about.

652
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,320
Oh yeah.
Someone painting the ceiling a

653
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,800
few weeks ago.
And genuinely, we just got into

654
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,240
conversation about teaching and
he literally said, can't you

655
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:03,800
just use what you did like last
year?

656
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,760
If you're in the same class, the
same year group teaching the

657
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,520
exact same sets.
And I was like, yeah, that would

658
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,160
be good.
I sort of didn't.

659
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,640
And I kind of felt embarrassed.
I actually felt embarrassed.

660
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,160
Did you have an answer for him?
Not really.

661
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,440
And I was like, my God, This is
why I want to do this episode.

662
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,240
I mean, like get into the nitty
gritty of it all.

663
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,920
And I was like flustered almost
of like, well, I, I mean, I kind

664
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,480
of, I could sort of, but, but we
can't because we've changed this

665
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,120
one thing now.
And every year we seem to change

666
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,040
something.
So this thing's changed, which

667
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,480
was messed up the slides.
We've got to change it.

668
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,760
We've got to change the way we
present it.

669
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,640
And all our lessons are a bit
shorter now actually, because we

670
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,840
changed that and we changed the
structure of our day and, and so

671
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,120
that we can't use that anymore.
And I was a bit flustered

672
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:40,320
thinking why can't I just use
all the stuff I use?

673
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,560
So are there legitimate reasons
then to do this?

674
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,320
Because you're, so I, I really
want to think about now why?

675
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,840
Like what is this coming from?
Because from my point of view,

676
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,880
the reason why we, we feel the
need to do this, there's twofold

677
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,480
1 is from the top down in
certain schools, something being

678
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,680
laid out as to say, right, guys,
from now on we're doing this.

679
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,480
I'm afraid that means we're
going to have to slightly change

680
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,520
how we're doing XYZ.
And that is just laid out in

681
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,560
front of you.
You're told to do it and that's

682
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,480
frustrating and it can be
frustrating even if it's really

683
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,520
well meaning and we understand
it.

684
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,600
That kind of reinventing the
wheel is like, oh, sorry, we're

685
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,440
going back to what we did five
years ago, which seemed to work

686
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,160
well because in the four years
when we changed this, actually

687
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,840
that didn't work quite well.
And when we changed it after

688
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,360
three years, it did have an
impact.

689
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:24,640
So what we want to do is really,
really go for that a bit more.

690
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,680
So after the second two years,
we need to make sure we're going

691
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,800
to do that a bit more.
And then you come back to say,

692
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,560
no, actually it's not working.
These kids need this.

693
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,320
Can I tell you what I think the
two key reasons are?

694
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:33,160
Yeah.
So that's one of them.

695
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,600
What was that one of them?
Yeah, it's kind of one of them.

696
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,720
What do you think?
So I think firstly, there is a

697
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,440
grass is always greener culture
and it's like to the next level

698
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:43,960
in teaching.
Like it's ridiculous.

699
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,840
You know, it is just, it is the
cyclical culture that you were

700
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,200
trying to get at then where you
see teachers have been doing it

701
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,160
for 1520 years, rolling their
eyes in staff meetings and you

702
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,520
sort of ask them why.
And they're like, yeah, because

703
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,160
we did this 10 years ago and we
did it for three years and then

704
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,480
we decided to do this other
thing.

705
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,000
And I think we have this
horrible, horrible.

706
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,160
And I do think it's toxic.
Grass is always greener on the

707
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,640
other side, sort of culture and
teaching where we where we are

708
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,160
gaslighting ourselves into
thinking, oh, unless we if we

709
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,280
haven't changed something in
three years, then we are

710
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,720
stagnating.
That word in teaching is like a

711
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,760
proper buzzword, isn't it all
stagnation.

712
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,520
We don't want to stagnate.
What do you mean stagnate?

713
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,320
Have you seen how the curriculum
hasn't changed?

714
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:23,760
What do you or is it on a
stagnate or what?

715
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,480
Like the curriculum that hasn't
changed and has stagnated in 10

716
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:27,160
years.
Can't we?

717
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,400
It's not stagnation, is it?
It's just the same curriculum.

718
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,920
Like it doesn't matter.
And also, it's not stagnation

719
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,840
because it's new children.
I never understand this argument

720
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,480
when people say it's a stagnant
curriculum.

721
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,680
It's a new lot of kids doing
this less.

722
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,400
It's not the same children.
That would be stagnation doing

723
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:42,640
the same thing over and over
again.

724
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,000
You get a new cohort every year.
So from your point of view as a

725
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,840
teacher, of course there's going
to be some sort of stagnation

726
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,960
because you are teaching the
same objective three times in a

727
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,280
row.
But for the kids you're in front

728
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,280
of, it's brand new for them.
Yeah.

729
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,280
Yeah.
They've not seen what.

730
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,400
Yeah.
And what you delivered three

731
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,400
years ago is what you need to
deliver last year is what you

732
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,880
need to deliver next year.
Until that curriculum changes.

733
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:01,400
And what do you think?
Who do you think you are?

734
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:02,720
You're Oh, I'm better than the
curriculum.

735
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,400
I need to change it.
School better on the curriculum.

736
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,160
We need to change it.
Yeah, I get that.

737
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,200
There are.
We'll talk about this later.

738
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,200
There is a place for change when
actually you've identified

739
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,720
something that is just terrible.
I get it.

740
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,720
Like not every school's perfect.
And therefore, to stay as they

741
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:13,880
are, they're going to be things
that are bad.

742
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:15,680
But I just want to come back to
this energy, right?

743
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,040
Because I think there's another
layer on top of this, on top of

744
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,840
this culture of we need to
change stuff.

745
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,440
We need to change stuff all the
time for some reason, for no

746
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:23,800
reason.
It's got you back up, yeah.

747
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,400
Really big time.
We've been dying to talk about

748
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,240
this in this podcast because I
think on top of that, we've got

749
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,600
another horrible layer that is
fuelled by this first layer of

750
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,280
also there's no money in time,
time in education.

751
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,200
So when it does come to making
change, it's always rushed and

752
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,480
terrible.
It's like, not always as I'm

753
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,720
exaggerating, but there's a good
chance that a school will

754
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,120
identify the need for change.
They don't have the budgets to

755
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,560
actually explore it properly and
research it properly and get

756
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,720
training in and do this and that
and that and spend some time on

757
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,240
it.
They'll just be like, oh, we

758
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,160
might have also come in next
year or the year after.

759
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,440
So we need to change this right
now.

760
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:55,680
Everyone right now, we need to
change this.

761
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:56,680
And all the grass is always
greener.

762
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:57,640
So we're going to go with that
one.

763
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,240
That one's better.
Look, that's better than what we

764
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:00,840
do right now, isn't it?
Because what we do right now is

765
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,440
obviously terrible because we've
done it for three years.

766
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,400
So that one over there, yeah,
that's probably exactly the

767
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:05,720
same.
It's new though, isn't it?

768
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,240
Shiny?
Oh, let's do it.

769
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,120
The grass is really green.
Come on guys, everyone do loads

770
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,160
of workload.
Change it.

771
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,080
Three years later, guess what
happens?

772
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,520
The exact same process.
And then you go to the next

773
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,720
scheme and then you go to the
next scheme and they go to and

774
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,400
eventually you get back round to
realising all of the pros from

775
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,240
that first one.
Everything has pros and cons.

776
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,640
So the pros always look great
when you're only focusing on the

777
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,280
cons of your current scheme and
you go, oh, the pros of that one

778
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,400
look good.
And then you've got your

779
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,080
teachers rolling their icing and
yeah, they do look good.

780
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,840
And they remember 20 years ago
when we did the same thing.

781
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,720
And that's the horrible
stagnating, unstagnate whatever

782
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,960
anti stagnating cycle cyclical
cycle of chaotic grass is

783
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,640
greener attitude and teaching.
Well, I think that's basically

784
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,240
what you're saying there is.
It's one side versus the other.

785
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,440
It's the argument where we're
stagnating because we're not

786
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,040
changing anything.
And there's the argument you're

787
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,960
making, which is, yeah.
But change for change's sake is

788
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,320
obviously stupid as well,
because here's the big problem

789
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,800
and and you've alluded to this,
I'm going to try and summarise

790
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:58,880
it in one in one.
Hit.

791
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,400
I've vented now.
So yeah, no, that's good.

792
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,160
I'm going to try and summarise
it in one hit because you, you

793
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,360
alluded to this last week, there
is a culture in teaching of

794
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,480
snobbery, of turn your nose up
at someone who dare suggest that

795
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,680
you can use playing.
You already have that.

796
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,440
There will always be a few
people who be like, what?

797
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,120
It's a new cohort.
You've got a new set of

798
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,720
children.
What do you mean?

799
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:22,920
You think you could use the same
lesson?

800
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,240
Of course you can't.
And this idea that you can't

801
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,960
possibly be a good teacher
unless you are tweaking

802
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,360
everything about a lesson for
the children in front of you.

803
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,000
Now look, don't get me wrong, I
think you do have to adapt.

804
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,920
It's a huge part of teaching.
It's a massive skill to be able

805
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,520
to do.
So you have to do it.

806
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,280
And that's fantastic, right?
But there are different ways to

807
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,400
adapt.
If you have a good lesson, which

808
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,160
you put time into planning once
you can adapt how you deliver

809
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,800
the lesson, you can adapt how
fast through a lesson you get,

810
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,320
you can adapt.
You can adapt your pace.

811
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,600
You can adapt lots of things
that don't mean you have to

812
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,080
press the delete button on that
smart go from the ground up

813
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,880
again and plan from scratch.
And that's something that I see

814
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,640
a lot of that I I'm at the point
in my career right now where if

815
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,840
someone was like that to me and
a bit snobby a bit.

816
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,080
So have you used that before?
I would say yeah.

817
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,560
Yeah, I planned it four years
ago and I've used every year

818
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:15,720
since.
Yeah, and you know what?

819
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,960
The kids understand it because
you know what, it worked four

820
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,360
years ago with that cohort, this
cohort, there are a few more

821
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,160
kids with, let's say rounding.
I love going to rounding because

822
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,000
I think it's an amazing example
of you have to know stuff before

823
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,400
you even do it.
And then lots of children get

824
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:29,920
stuck in it and some get it
really quickly.

825
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,480
I think rounding is an amazing
example of how it's hard to

826
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,920
teach maths sometimes because,
OK, this year for example, with

827
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,800
rounding, let's say there are
more children who can't even

828
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,760
count in their hundreds.
So when I'm rounding to the

829
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,800
nearest hundred, it's almost
pointless me doing that because

830
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,160
those kids can't count hundreds
yet.

831
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,840
So you need to be able to count
hundreds and know what a

832
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,520
multiple of a 100 is first.
There are also a bunch of kids

833
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,320
actually who are really good at
it and they very quickly come

834
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,680
round to 100 and you need to
think of ways to stretch them.

835
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,440
That can change year to year.
There can be more children who

836
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,280
don't know how to count
hundreds, fewer children who get

837
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,400
on quickly.
There could be a much larger

838
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,800
breadth of children.
But if you've planned a lesson

839
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,720
well, you don't have to re plan
it the next year.

840
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,920
You just have to have children
doing different things.

841
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,040
That's where the adaptation
comes from for me.

842
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,840
And I think quality lessons and
quality planning, it doesn't

843
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,400
have to be reinvented every 45-6
years just because you think it

844
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,920
does and you've heard this
before, I've heard this before.

845
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,040
As mass leads, you might say,
guys, we're not changing

846
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,280
anything this year.
Crack on.

847
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,360
And it's almost as if people are
waiting, Yeah, because they're

848
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:31,560
indoctrinated to think, well,
if.

849
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,080
We're not changing anything
we're doing.

850
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,080
My job.
That's bad, isn't it?

851
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,640
No.
No, you did, you did you all put

852
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,200
in tonnes of work last year like
when we did our, we did a lot of

853
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,720
maths A.
Couple of years ago, over about

854
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:41,960
two years, I mean.
And when there was a lot of

855
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,920
change, you know, people did do
a lot of work and they, they

856
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,120
replanned a lot of their lessons
and, and made sure it was up to

857
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,920
scratch with White Rose maths,
which I know you'll talk about

858
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,600
later because you love it.
And so do I.

859
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,080
And yeah.
And then then after a couple of

860
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,560
years and we've done it, or it
was sort of like, yeah, just

861
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,440
just tweak it.
Maybe maybe change some of your

862
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,400
starters to suit your current
class, but like, yeah your

863
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,000
lessons are fine.
Yeah, that chunk of time you get

864
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,240
to go over stuff that might
change.

865
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:02,560
Oh.
Hang on.

866
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,640
Sorry.
Yeah, the curriculum is exactly

867
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,480
the same as it was last year.
So all those lessons you planned

868
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,400
last year and you're no more
upskilled than last year.

869
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,280
There's no reason for you to
replan them because guess what?

870
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,280
You don't know anything more or
nothing's changed.

871
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,240
Just use them again.
A big, a big, we're gonna come

872
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,440
back to it towards the end of
this chat.

873
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,280
Is this has a this the problem
is this, this attitude has a

874
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,760
direct link to the retention
problem, workload issues just

875
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,640
piling on.
And, and when do you know when

876
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,120
teachers feel resentful?
It's not when they've got to do

877
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,320
work.
It's not.

878
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:30,440
And we've talked a lot about
this.

879
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,200
Teachers know they've got to do
work.

880
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,720
We understand this stuff to do
outside of the school time.

881
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,440
We, we, we get our school
holidays, we know there's a pay

882
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,320
off.
We know we have to do a bit more

883
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,280
during the weeks that we're in
school because that's how that's

884
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:43,120
real life.
Get over.

885
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,480
It's a job.
When we're resentful is when we

886
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:46,960
look at the sheer amount of
stuff we have to do.

887
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,240
And 50% of it is pointless.
Yeah.

888
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,000
And And this is what falls into
that category.

889
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,400
Yeah, It this is.
Pointless and it's, and it's,

890
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,720
it's exacerbated by the fact
that it's not in directed time.

891
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,200
All of that pointless stuff is
always outside of directed time.

892
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,240
And therefore it's your evenings
and weekends when you're doing

893
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,520
the pointless stuff, which just
makes it feel worse.

894
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,720
If it was in directed time,
you'd be like, well, I'm, I'm,

895
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,880
I'm on the dollar baby.
Like, if this is, this is what

896
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,159
they want me to do, then
they're, you know, I'm getting

897
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:11,239
paid for this.
They're wasting my time.

898
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,280
But when it's outside of school.
Yeah.

899
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,400
And that would flip things
straight away.

900
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,679
If it was in director time, I
would do displays.

901
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:19,520
If it was in director time, if
they said to me, you've got your

902
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,159
morning out, I want your
classroom to have these five

903
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:23,600
displays.
I'm a worker.

904
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:24,360
Yeah, you're paying.
Me.

905
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,440
Yeah, Thank you.
Brilliant.

906
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,239
Of course I don't have to enjoy
every second of my job, but what

907
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,719
I do have to do is take control
of my own time and not do stuff

908
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,400
in my own time that I I know is
not helping my job.

909
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,440
I think you've captured
perfectly what people outside of

910
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,040
teaching think about teachers,
right?

911
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,120
They I think they see, and I
don't even blame them honestly

912
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,320
because because at the end they
only get a surface level

913
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:46,400
understanding of teaching,
right?

914
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:49,760
I think they see from podcasts
like this and other teaching

915
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,960
channels that are kind of
snobbery of if my job isn't

916
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,040
perfectly satisfyingly enjoyable
for me, then I don't want to do

917
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,880
it.
And I think that's what they see

918
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,400
and that what they're not
understanding is no, we're

919
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,280
saying we don't want to do it
for free.

920
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,200
I don't.
If I'm doing it for free, I at

921
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,720
least want to make sure it's
useful.

922
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,640
Like that is kind of it, isn't
it really?

923
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,560
But people see that snobbery of,
no, they just, we all have jobs.

924
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,640
We don't want to do stuff.
Most people don't really enjoy

925
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,720
their job, or at least don't
enjoy a chunk of it.

926
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,760
And it's OK because indirect
time would do it because we're

927
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,080
just workers like everybody
else.

928
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,600
Yeah, sorry to jump.
In no, no, you're absolutely

929
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,080
right.
And, and I just have this vision

930
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,360
there of, you know, just turning
it back on them and saying, OK,

931
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,360
well, if your boss asked you to
do something, you know, won't

932
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,120
help your job on Sunday for
three hours, would you just be

933
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,920
OK with that?
Yeah, of course you of course

934
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,280
you would say no, I'm not doing
that, mate.

935
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,880
Unless you pay me overtime, then
I'll do it.

936
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,800
Because if it's on your money,
then yeah, sure.

937
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,280
Right, let's have a very quick
Jingle.

938
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:44,320
We're going to talk about
schemes after schemes paid and

939
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,200
what do you think about schemes?
What's a scheme, Dylan?

940
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,520
Well, a scheme is something that
you might buy into as a school,

941
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,040
and it's basically seen as
almost a shortcut to

942
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,200
understanding a subject.
And what I mean by that is we've

943
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,760
talked a million times about how
as primary school teachers, it

944
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,720
is honestly pretty much
impossible to be experts at the

945
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:05,640
history curriculum, the
geography curriculum, the math

946
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,080
curriculum, the English
curriculum, and as lead in a

947
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,440
subject, you might think I need
to help my staff and you might

948
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,240
buy into a curriculum, a
curriculum scheme.

949
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,320
So you might by into a math
scheme or an English scheme, and

950
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,400
the idea is that by doing so,
you're taking some of the burden

951
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,600
off your staff and you're
saying, well guys, we're in a

952
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,720
scheme now.
This might have a progression,

953
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:25,880
it might have some resources, it
might have some tasks for you to

954
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:30,120
do, something you can point your
staff towards to really reduce

955
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,800
their workload.
Are you telling me that the

956
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,520
national curriculum for
geography at primary school does

957
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,760
not already have all of this
intrinsic detail in it, seeing

958
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,480
as it's a government document
for 30,000 schools?

959
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,040
Are you?
Tell me that's not what I am

960
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,320
telling you is that I think the
geography curriculum is two

961
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,200
sides of a four with a few
bullet points saying do the

962
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,520
Aztecs please?
Right.

963
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,000
So scheme history.
Well, we'll ignore that.

964
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,920
Do the do rivers please let go
through the ads.

965
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,160
In RE.
Oh, and I'm fussed.

966
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,840
But it is just two sides, yeah.
So Scheme kind of fills that gap

967
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,440
doesn't it, between the National
Quicken, which is extremely

968
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,360
vague and basic, to you actually
having to deliver 6 lessons in

969
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,760
term?
It kind of.

970
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,080
It plugs that gap and it helps.
It helps you out.

971
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,760
Yeah, and you know what, schemes
can be unbelievable.

972
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,760
Yeah, but I've got to say some
schemes can can be dragged.

973
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,920
I know you've been, I've had a
vent, right?

974
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,680
I know you've been waiting to
have a vent about schemes for

975
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,160
ages.
So can you break down what is it

976
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,040
about schemes that can take them
on this range of being extremely

977
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,760
good and useful?
Do you clearly think some are

978
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:30,880
too utterly terrible to the
point that it actually offends

979
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:31,640
you because you're getting
annoyed?

980
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,440
Yeah.
So firstly what I'm going to say

981
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,480
is there are a group of people
who get annoyed at schemes for a

982
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:36,560
completely different reason to
me.

983
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:37,720
So I'm going to outline that
first.

984
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,200
They get annoyed at schemes
because they think schemes

985
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,600
straight away bad, because they
feel like schemes are there

986
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,480
should be no one between a
teacher and the curriculum.

987
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:48,040
They feel like schemes box
people in, They feel like

988
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,520
schemes which just aren't very
helpful for that creative

989
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:51,760
process.
Is it a culture thing again?

990
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,480
It's a culture thing again,
because do you know what?

991
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,400
Do you know what are they wrong?
Probably not.

992
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,400
But when am I going to bridge
that gap and learn this

993
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,240
curriculum inside out and
understand all these themes that

994
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:03,680
I need to weave into my lessons?
I, I can't do it.

995
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,240
I can't do it unless I'm putting
hours and hours and hours into

996
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,760
history and then geography and
then RE and then science.

997
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,760
I can't, I can't do that.
So I don't.

998
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,960
That's not why I don't.
I've got this problem with

999
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,120
schemes.
My problem with schemes, it is

1000
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,160
when you as as a primary school
teacher or anyone in school

1001
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,000
who's looking at a scheme, the
breadth is unreal.

1002
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:27,080
So my problem is for a good
scheme it should provide you

1003
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,040
with lots of stuff, lots of
resources, lots of ideas.

1004
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,520
Some schemes do this really
well.

1005
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,560
Some schemes are dreadful.
I'm going to talk about a scheme

1006
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:37,680
that does it really well for a
second.

1007
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,480
White Rose Maths to me, as a
scheme that you can buy into is

1008
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,040
unbelievably good and the reason
it's unbelievably good is

1009
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,440
because anything you can think
of that you might need to

1010
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,080
deliver the curriculum is in
this one.

1011
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,360
Hub OK, let me test you then.
I'm a maths teacher.

1012
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,040
I'm not very confident I won an
overview for the year.

1013
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,440
It's that so White Rose has that
it's an MTP and what it also

1014
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,440
does is every year grip has a
medium term plan where it goes

1015
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,840
through topics in order and
small steps to breakdown what

1016
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,080
how you might deliver in the
lesson.

1017
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,040
But it also makes sure ensures
progression because you can go

1018
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,760
to year 2, year three-year 4,
right?

1019
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,000
Look at multiplication and you
can see that progression there.

1020
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,760
So as a school leader
implementing a scheme, you know

1021
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,680
that if everyone is just looking
at the scheme as a base point,

1022
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,600
you can ensure that progression.
OK, brilliant.

1023
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,480
So I'm happy now I'm thinking,
OK, that's taking a big weight

1024
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,640
off my chest.
I'm now in Term 2 and I've got a

1025
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,680
I've got a multiplication unit
coming up and the small steps

1026
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,400
are telling me I need to do a
lesson on factors.

1027
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,680
Yeah, what else does it offer me
then at this point, right?

1028
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,960
I need to teach it to the kids.
So there's another document

1029
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,240
where each small step has two to
three sides of A4 broken down.

1030
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,680
Each small step, there are
hundreds of small steps.

1031
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,000
What like a guidance?
It's a guidance.

1032
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,960
You can go to it and you can,
you can look at it and it'll

1033
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,120
give you question stems that you
could ask as a teacher.

1034
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,120
It'll give you examples you
could put on the board.

1035
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:55,680
It'll give you 5 different
representations of how to how to

1036
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,520
deliver it.
It will explain it with

1037
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,200
annotations to say use this to
show this, use that to show

1038
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,720
that.
So I'm feeling confident in the

1039
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:03,480
concept now as a teacher.
But still.

1040
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,400
I've got a standard though and I
need something on my smart board

1041
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,600
because we use smart balls or
PowerPoints or whatever.

1042
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,040
Provide slides for every small
step.

1043
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,000
There are slides on there,
PowerPoint slides.

1044
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,480
I think this is amazing.
Those people I spoke about a

1045
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,960
minute ago would look at it and
go, oh, it's just a this is the,

1046
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,880
this is the time people use.
It's just a plug in and play

1047
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,040
curriculum.
It's awful.

1048
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,600
There's there's no chance for a
teacher.

1049
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,800
There's just such an issue where
we can just just use what's

1050
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,200
there.
Yes, but you know what?

1051
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,600
We implemented White Rose
because we saw, do you know what

1052
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,000
planned by specialists, Amazing
stuff.

1053
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,120
Everything's there.
Not one person in our school

1054
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,480
blindly follows that White Rose
progression.

1055
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:45,160
White Rose themselves say we
would not expect a school or a

1056
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,280
class or an individual to just
blindly follow all of these and

1057
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,200
do all of the questions that
you're given.

1058
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,280
What White Rose did was they
gave us everything and said to

1059
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,880
teachers, we trust you.
Off you go.

1060
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,280
Do what you need to do.
Adapt, supplement, get stuff out

1061
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,320
of your class.
Don't need that.

1062
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,880
Take stuff out of it.
But do you know what it did?

1063
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,160
It saved so much time because it
gave you everything you needed.

1064
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,280
You weren't working from
scratch, adapting what's there.

1065
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,760
As a teacher, that's the skill
you need to do.

1066
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,760
That's what I'm talking about
when I talk about adaptation.

1067
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,320
Adaptation does not have to be
starting from scratch all the

1068
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,000
time.
Oh, we couldn't possibly use a

1069
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,400
scheme because how can you?
What?

1070
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,760
The children in front of you,
they might need something that

1071
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,320
that isn't on the scheme.
Yeah.

1072
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:26,760
Do you put it in?
Yeah.

1073
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,200
What?
Honestly, going back to

1074
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,400
rounding, what more could a
child need because they're from

1075
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,000
a different county than in
someone else?

1076
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,240
To our county.
Yeah, oh, oh, wait.

1077
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,600
Have you taken into account the
background factors of these

1078
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,240
children and rounding to the
nearest 100?

1079
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:43,920
Dylan children in Essex, they
learn to round in a different

1080
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,480
language to us that was like,
no, I think there's no.

1081
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,560
You know, there was an
Anglo-Saxon burial site recently

1082
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,120
down the road.
We've got to implement that into

1083
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,600
our rounding to 100.
No you don't.

1084
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,960
No you don't.
It's just rounding to 100.

1085
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,600
Do you know what there is?
There is probably a best way to

1086
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,120
teach rounding in general.
Whatever that way is, I don't

1087
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,720
know.
Yeah, and it would be acceptable

1088
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:01,680
to do.
That, yeah, and that, but that's

1089
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,320
why White Rose is really
powerful, I think, because it

1090
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,920
will show you how extracting the
the skills to count in hundreds,

1091
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,960
it will have a list of stuff
that your child should be,

1092
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,120
children should be able to do
already.

1093
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,040
And that's where you can do your
adaptation.

1094
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,360
Well, let me play devil's
advocate then.

1095
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,720
Our school, OK, it's been
successful in our school.

1096
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,280
And I think that maybe is down
to the fact that we've got one

1097
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,720
really good teachers anyway, we
aren't and that's just potluck.

1098
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:21,920
We work.
We don't choose what we work

1099
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,920
with.
And two, I think we did put a

1100
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,840
lot of training in to really
encourage that variation and,

1101
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,640
and, and and adaptation.
Yeah.

1102
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,600
Are there schools in the country
that, if provided with a scheme

1103
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,920
like White Rose, would just
follow it blindly to the

1104
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,080
detriment of the?
Yeah, there are, there are and,

1105
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:37,920
and this is, this is the
argument against that.

1106
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,000
So I want to really break this
down now because now I want to

1107
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,720
talk about schemes that are bad
in my opinion.

1108
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,200
There are lots of schemes out
there.

1109
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,520
I'm not going to name any names,
but I'm sure if you're a teacher

1110
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,000
working in a school, you're at
some point would have picked up

1111
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,480
a scheme and been like, where's
the stuff?

1112
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,600
What?
I don't have anything. 1% of

1113
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:55,800
the.
Work what that's that's not

1114
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,920
helping me at all.
And a lot of schemes are

1115
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,800
honestly glorified medium term
plans and they'll just take from

1116
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,120
the curriculum what's already
threadbare and say what year 4

1117
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,800
you need to do Romans.
Here are 9 lesson objectives for

1118
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,000
the Romans.
Have fun.

1119
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,640
Maybe some like ideas a.
Couple of ideas make.

1120
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:11,800
Perhaps you could do this or
that.

1121
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,040
OK, do you have that task for me
then?

1122
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,200
No, no, no, no.
OK, so you have some, you know,

1123
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,120
basic slides then I could work
through because you know, if, if

1124
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,720
I'm just comparing 2 Roman
emperors to maybe a modern day

1125
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:25,560
leader, surely that's quite a
basic that you know, you can

1126
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:26,920
just, you can provide me with
that information.

1127
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,280
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
We can't provide you with that

1128
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:29,920
information.
Why not?

1129
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,840
What we want to do at this
scheme is we want to give

1130
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,800
teachers the power to plan as
they need for their children.

1131
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,280
We don't want to plug and play.
Are you saying you don't want to

1132
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,680
do the work no do?
You think that's what it is?

1133
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:45,240
Do you think it's, do you
honestly think like how much do

1134
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:49,000
you think they believe that the
idea that we are just

1135
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,880
encouraging teachers to not
think about their lessons and

1136
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,960
just deliver blindly and how
much do you think of it is it is

1137
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,640
a load of work for us as a
company to provide those lesson

1138
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,680
slides.
Honestly, when you see the

1139
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,960
comparisons with like White
Rose, for example, I think don't

1140
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,240
do a scheme if you can't be
asked to put this actual work

1141
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:06,960
into providing the stuff for the
scheme.

1142
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,920
If if your scheme is honestly a
glorified MTP with some

1143
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,720
information, but you've got to
go and supplement that, make up

1144
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:15,960
all of your own tasks, make up
all of your own slides.

1145
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,160
Honestly, what you're buying
there is just how to like lessen

1146
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,400
objectives and, and, and it
frustrates me because I think

1147
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,520
that there's OK in both methods
here of a really detailed scheme

1148
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,800
that gives you everything.
Think White Rose to a different

1149
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,520
kind of scheme.
Think of almost any scheme that

1150
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,480
you've seen, honestly, where
where it's just very threadbare

1151
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,480
and you end up having to do
hours and hours of work anyway

1152
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:39,720
and you might as well have died
from scratch.

1153
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,520
The negative about that one is
huge amounts of workload for the

1154
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,760
teacher.
The negative for the White Rose

1155
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,400
one is it's a bit plug and play.
People might just blindly take

1156
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,240
it through and it might not be
exactly what the children need.

1157
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:55,200
OK, pick one, Pick one if you're
really serious about solving

1158
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,800
this crisis we have in schools,
about actually looking at the

1159
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:59,960
retention problems and how
horrendous it is.

1160
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,640
Pick one that you think's easier
to to fill to fix.

1161
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,800
OK, as a school is the one where
your staff have got to go away

1162
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,920
and build from scratch a whole
curriculum anyway, even though

1163
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,200
you bought in a scheme is is
that more detrimental because.

1164
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:14,720
You don't want the people to.
Do a plug and a play.

1165
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,680
Risk of people couldn't possibly
themselves because they're not

1166
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:18,480
possibly.
Risk that, OK.

1167
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,200
Yeah, we'll use for.
Something we don't want to risk

1168
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:21,000
that.
No, no risk.

1169
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,920
That or you have to implement a
bit of training, which is to

1170
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,840
say, here you go, trusted
professional teachers.

1171
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,840
Here's everything you might
possibly need for for for your

1172
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,440
curriculum.
Can you just make sure when

1173
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,920
you're actually using it that
you just adapt slightly?

1174
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,480
Supplement, tweak what?
What's what's easier and better

1175
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,560
to do?
It's obvious to give your

1176
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,880
professional teachers everything
they might possibly need, and to

1177
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,760
teach them how to then adapt it
if they don't know how.

1178
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,880
To I agree, that last bit is
really important as a, as a good

1179
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,880
SLT, good leadership team, it's
kind of down to you.

1180
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,800
You know what, if you're a
leadership team and you get in a

1181
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,800
scheme and then you get really
annoyed a couple of years later

1182
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,280
because you think, do you know
what the teachers aren't,

1183
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,360
they're not putting much time
into adapting this stuff.

1184
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,000
They're just picking it up and
using it as it is.

1185
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,360
And actually it's not now, it's
now not that effective because

1186
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:05,800
they're doing that.
That's on you.

1187
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:07,480
It's actually not on the
teachers.

1188
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,280
If you've done nothing.
That's what I mean.

1189
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,400
If you've done nothing, if
you've just gone, oh, there you

1190
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,080
go, there's the stuff, change it
though.

1191
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,560
If you put in some training,
then so say to your staff, hey,

1192
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,520
we've identified an issue.
This is the issue.

1193
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,280
We think this scheme could be
really useful, but we're not

1194
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,160
using it properly and we're not
using it properly because too

1195
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,000
many of us are just picking it
up and using it exactly as it

1196
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:25,960
is.
And it doesn't work with this

1197
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,040
cohort you've got right now
because and because this, this,

1198
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,640
this and this, this reason.
So here's how we can, how we can

1199
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,760
use it.
Not the grass is greener now

1200
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,360
over there because I've
identified one con of this.

1201
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,400
So now we're going to use this
other scheme where it's all

1202
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,560
different objectives and you've
got to plan it from scratch.

1203
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,520
It gives you some task ideas,
but you've got to do it because

1204
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,640
that way I can ensure then that
you, you now know exactly what's

1205
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,160
in that and you're planning it
for your class.

1206
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:48,880
It's not the right way.
And, and do you know what the

1207
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,840
similarity when you're talking
then it just reminded me.

1208
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,800
I think we've done this analogy
2 times in episodes in the past

1209
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,040
where we've gone back to this
whole mindset, right?

1210
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,440
Of it's very political.
It's like there's like the Tory

1211
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,360
Labour when we, when we was in
like vote time and we were

1212
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,880
talking all politics, it was
that whole mindset of like

1213
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,720
having, having schemes and
across the country, the benefit

1214
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:10,880
people like literally like the
benefit system where it's like,

1215
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,400
OK, some people, some people
might be taking the mic and

1216
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,080
abusing the system.
So is it worth scrapping the

1217
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:21,240
whole system to spite those few
people that are abusing it, but

1218
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:25,640
then punishing the 9599% of
people that actually it was

1219
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,160
benefiting?
Or do you just keep the benefits

1220
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,760
isn't there?
And, and knowing that actually

1221
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,080
there's a there's a few little
problems we can, we can try and

1222
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,720
tackle That to me is the same
thing.

1223
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:35,680
It's like, yes, go with the
scheme that gives your teachers

1224
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,560
everything and just be aware
that there is a possibility that

1225
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,360
some teachers might abuse it and
then not actually deliver very

1226
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,280
good lessons at all and try and
tackle that issue.

1227
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,240
Don't do it the other way around
of I'll get rid of that that

1228
00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:48,880
issue, I'll get rid of that
issue, full stop.

1229
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,160
Punish everybody else.
We're going back to planning

1230
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,280
from scratch, guys, because some
people are taking the mic out of

1231
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,720
this white roast slide, Yeah.
Yeah, it's like, no.

1232
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:01,080
So I think I agree that that I
think schemes should should

1233
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:06,640
provide lesson slides and tasks
that you can adapt and choose to

1234
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,520
use or not, but it should be
there.

1235
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,080
If it's a scheme that doesn't
have that, it's not a very good

1236
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,440
scheme.
And I think what winds me up

1237
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,720
slightly is I've seen previously
people who run these schemes toe

1238
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:20,360
that line of, well, we don't
want to do a plug, you know, we

1239
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:26,840
talked about it, but OK, stop.
Come on, be real.

1240
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:30,000
Be real.
You're you're a teacher or have

1241
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,600
been, I assume if you're doing a
scheme, be realistic for one

1242
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,680
second.
Would you have just done plug

1243
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,080
and play?
No, probably not, because you're

1244
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:39,600
probably a good teacher.
If you're thinking about

1245
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,160
building a scheme and you have
all these ideas in place, you're

1246
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,360
probably a good teacher.
You wouldn't have just done plug

1247
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,160
and play, just just just when
you've got a scheme like White

1248
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:49,280
Rose.
Okay.

1249
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,240
And I've seen White Rose as a
scheme and I've seen other

1250
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:53,520
schemes.
It just pales in comparison and

1251
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,200
it makes me frustrated at other
schemes.

1252
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,280
And it is a dual edged sword.
Like you said, the people are in

1253
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,960
charge.
If we here's what I wanted to

1254
00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:02,680
say as well, I'll talk about how
good White Rose is.

1255
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,080
OK?
I'd also don't necessarily think

1256
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,000
just if a scheme is detailed and
has lots of stuff, I I don't

1257
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:09,600
necessarily think it's
automatically good as well.

1258
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,800
The reason I think White Rose is
good is because it's planned by

1259
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,600
experts.
It's got so much variety, it's

1260
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,800
rich in its explanations.
And it is literally good.

1261
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,160
It is really good.
Think about think about Oak

1262
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,000
Academy, the national thing
where there's lots of resources

1263
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,720
online lesson videos, very
detailed, a huge breadth of

1264
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:27,560
stuff.
I don't think that's as good.

1265
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,440
I don't think that you could see
it and just play a video and

1266
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,480
have a nice progression.
I don't think it has everything,

1267
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:34,800
no.
I think White Rose has

1268
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,720
everything and that's why it
works for a.

1269
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:37,840
Lot of people don't like White
Rose though.

1270
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,000
No, I see online a lot, Yeah, in
teacher groups, but they don't

1271
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,840
like white.
Rose, do you find, and I find

1272
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:43,600
this.
Maybe I'm wrong.

1273
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,640
And I'd love to hear what people
think if they've got legitimate

1274
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,560
concerns about stuff like this.
I find with White Rose, people's

1275
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,800
frustration is they'll say that
they're annoyed that they can't

1276
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:52,760
plug in and play.
Yeah.

1277
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,760
So that they're frustrated that,
oh, well, this sheet isn't

1278
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,440
suitable for my class.
They can't do all of these

1279
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,000
questions.
And I'm just like, exactly this

1280
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,880
is this is where it needs to be
the onus on the teacher.

1281
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,200
They've given you something,
they've given you ideas of the

1282
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:07,600
like.
Quite often when I plan from

1283
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,040
White Rose and I have done in
the last God knows how long,

1284
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,440
long time I will look at their,
I will use their PowerPoint

1285
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,320
slides, right.
And I might take bits from it

1286
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,280
that I think I'm going to show
my kid to that because that

1287
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:19,920
because I've got maybe a high
group this year and I don't

1288
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,520
really some of this other stuff.
I'm going to take this part

1289
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:22,600
though, because that saves me
some time.

1290
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,680
I'll look at the worksheet that
comes with it as well.

1291
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,760
And again, I'll and what I'll
mainly do from it is get ideas

1292
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,120
of how to present questions in
different ways.

1293
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,320
And I might like I might be
like, I love number 4-5 and six

1294
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,280
and I kind of just want my class
to do a lot of that.

1295
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:35,640
So I'm going to take 4-5 and
six.

1296
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,640
I'm just going to write a couple
more like it and it's going to

1297
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,080
take me no time because a lot of
the time in mass, it's thinking

1298
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,320
of the question idea, like how
to present the question.

1299
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:44,920
That's the that's the problem.
And I'm like, cool, I'm just

1300
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,760
going to take 4-5 and six.
I'm going to snip them onto a

1301
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,520
thing and I'm just going to
write a few more like that.

1302
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,560
And that's going to be my little
task for today because that's

1303
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,040
kind of where I want them to go.
So I've adapted it, but it's

1304
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,080
saved me so much thinking time
and also done some of the

1305
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,880
groundwork for me.
And the best case scenario, I'll

1306
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,480
look at an objective and be
like, this is spot on.

1307
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,960
This is pitched bang on for my
class this year.

1308
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,800
I'm going to use it as it is,
right?

1309
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,000
Now, Yep, and and you've hit a
nail on the head.

1310
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,200
That's exactly what I wanted to
say basically was do you know

1311
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:16,000
what that last 5% is on the
teachers?

1312
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,640
And and I would love to hear
someone speaking about

1313
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:20,800
especially White Rose, because I
do love White Rose.

1314
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:21,920
I'm a big advocate for White
Rose.

1315
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,440
I think it's fantastic as maths
needs.

1316
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,840
I'd love to hear someone talking
about it in a way where I

1317
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,920
couldn't convince them of in 10
minutes that it's then down to

1318
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:32,760
you as the teacher.
If you want a plug in and play

1319
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,120
curriculum, you're going to have
to put up with the negative

1320
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:36,680
sides of that.
Which is exactly what you just

1321
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:37,880
said.
Your kids will not be able to

1322
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,720
access some questions.
There be some children stuck,

1323
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:42,320
other children whizzing through.
That's where your skill as the

1324
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,040
teacher comes in.
That's where, like we said

1325
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,000
earlier, we're not afraid of
doing work.

1326
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,320
That's a bit of work that we
obviously have to do to be good

1327
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:50,440
teachers.
You know, the irony of this

1328
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,480
whole thing is though, because
I've I know you'll have heard of

1329
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,960
this as well.
I have heard of so many schools,

1330
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,680
right where they're so afraid of
teachers doing things the wrong

1331
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,400
way, right, that they buy in a
scheme that is kind of plug and

1332
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,120
play.
And then they're extremely

1333
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,600
strict and say you need to
follow the scheme exactly as it

1334
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,000
is because they're afraid that
people don't follow the scheme.

1335
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:12,640
They're going to go off and
start doing things that are a

1336
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,720
bit crap.
And then the irony is schemes

1337
00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:18,200
like White Rose then become not
that effective because you've

1338
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,400
got all these teachers following
it exactly as it because they've

1339
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,240
been told no, my school will get
crossed at me if I don't do the

1340
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,160
if I don't do the true or false
slide.

1341
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,160
Because what they decided if I
have to do the true or false

1342
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,400
slide, then I have to do the
PowerPoints flashback, then I

1343
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,040
have to give them this thing.
And then at the end I do the

1344
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,000
flashback floor as a floor as a
plenary.

1345
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,600
If I don't do that, I get marked
down at my score.

1346
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,840
So I have to follow that.
And I don't think it works very

1347
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,120
well.
And they're starting to then say

1348
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,920
White Rose is rubbish.
I'm like, whoa, no, you've

1349
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,040
missed the point there.
And White Rose themselves say

1350
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:46,560
don't do that.
I know I've been to their

1351
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,120
training.
I've been in the room.

1352
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,000
I went to training in London and
we talked about adapting.

1353
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,120
The whole thing was about
adapting tasks.

1354
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,520
And it was the theme was we
would never expect you just to

1355
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,720
use this, but you know, we've
given you all of this stuff.

1356
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,240
It can be overwhelming.
But what would you rather?

1357
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,320
Would you rather be slightly
overwhelmed, have some training

1358
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,160
and get better at doing
something, or have nothing?

1359
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:09,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just go off the curriculum and

1360
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:10,880
maybe some glorified Medium
templates.

1361
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,960
I suppose to finish off with
this discussion, the point, the

1362
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,640
point I suppose I'm making here
is are we really genuinely

1363
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,880
serious about trying to solve
the teaching crisis at the

1364
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,320
minute?
Do we actually want to stop

1365
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,120
teachers leaving in droves?
Because it's so easy to look at

1366
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,640
these big ideas, these huge
institutions that we have where

1367
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,120
where, where basically from the
top down, they're saying, yeah,

1368
00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:34,920
yeah, you can't do this, You
can't do that.

1369
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,720
These, these ideas that are
entrenched in our brains that

1370
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:41,440
you are a bad teacher if and
then that if means you're not

1371
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,400
going above and beyond doing
hours and hours of stuff.

1372
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,240
The only way we're actually
going to solve this teacher

1373
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:49,760
crisis is if we completely
uproot that from the ground up.

1374
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,560
These little things quite
clearly that coming out, these

1375
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,880
reduction workload reduction
task force stuff, this little

1376
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,920
stuff over the years that we've
heard, it's clearly not having

1377
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,880
an effect.
It's clearly not having an

1378
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:01,720
effect to say you don't need to
do displays.

1379
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,720
How many thousands of people do
we still get messages saying

1380
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,760
we've been asked to do display
because governors are coming

1381
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,360
around later since we've even
told them that they don't have

1382
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,920
to do it anymore.
It's not being implemented

1383
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:13,080
properly.
And you know what?

1384
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,720
It's small or fry because even
if that person didn't have to

1385
00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:17,720
spend 20 minutes doing that
display, which they shouldn't

1386
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:19,960
have to do, you know what,
they're actually at a place

1387
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:21,520
where they've got to go home and
plan from scratch.

1388
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:22,920
And that's the big thing.
It's.

1389
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,120
Going to take time.
I think the culture is in a

1390
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,480
really bad place.
You know the cult, the teaching

1391
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,760
culture is very is a very strong
culture, very well known culture

1392
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,760
in education.
You know, you know what the the

1393
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,840
meta culture is at the time.
Do you know what I mean?

1394
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,080
And I just think it's going to
take a really, really long time

1395
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,440
because it's not changing and
all these things are coming out

1396
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,040
and it doesn't feel any
different yet.

1397
00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:42,280
I think it will just take some
time.

1398
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,320
But the problem is with with
teaching and the way it works is

1399
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:46,720
it's got to be a top down
approach.

1400
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:48,680
It has to be.
And you can, you can be at the

1401
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:50,200
bottom like we are.
You know, we're just class

1402
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,160
teachers.
We can be there screaming as

1403
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,240
much as we want, but until SLT
get on board.

1404
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,840
As a whole.
And as a whole and, and really

1405
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,800
trickle down that that that
trickle it down, whatever it is

1406
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,360
the, you know, the change the
culture.

1407
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,800
And actively go to someone and
say do not do this.

1408
00:55:09,240 --> 00:55:12,560
Don't just kind of skim past.
Like no, I know these guys are

1409
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:13,800
known as six hours at the
weekend.

1410
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,360
But if I don't mention it and
they don't mention it, it's all

1411
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,800
good.
No, be active, be active about

1412
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,480
it.
Tell them they don't have to do

1413
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,000
this thing.
Tell them they don't have to

1414
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,600
worry.
Because then next week I've had

1415
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:30,000
horror stories, right of honesty
maths planning from a from a

1416
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,560
scheme.
So teachers are planning from a

1417
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,600
scheme that was brought in, not
White Rose, different scheme.

1418
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,160
They've got to plan for their
mixed ability classes and

1419
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,200
they're in a school where
there's more than one form

1420
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,040
entry.
So there's 234 classes they can

1421
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,320
share between.
And they have been directly told

1422
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,280
they are not allowed to share
planning.

1423
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:54,560
They are not allowed to pick,
look at this scheme, pick it up,

1424
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:58,320
plan for it from scratch, by the
way, because there's no slides.

1425
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,440
And then they're not allowed to
share that with their colleagues

1426
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:03,720
who could then just tweak it.
No, no, no, no.

1427
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:05,760
You've got to do your own
planning because it's for your

1428
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,840
own kids.
It's mixed it, guys.

1429
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,320
It's rounding to 10.
Get over it.

1430
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,000
OK, get over it.
There are 95% of objectives that

1431
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,240
do not need you to plan from
scratch.

1432
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,720
You can just adapt and tweak.
Things that already exist, yeah.

1433
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,120
Hayden I run on play a quick
game with you to finish off.

1434
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,280
So we're going to play the
Jingle love a game one last

1435
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:25,440
Jingle.
We're going to play a game.

1436
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,520
I want people who are listening
to play along.

1437
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,920
See if you can beat Hayden.
My my thoughts you will be able

1438
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:37,560
to beat Hayden quick game.
Then before we finish everyone,

1439
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:38,680
I want you to play along at
home.

1440
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,480
Context.
I've been obsessed with Only

1441
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,960
Connect.
Okay, it's a BBC Two game show,

1442
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,640
used to be on BBC Four hosted by
Victoria Cora Mitchell, and the

1443
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,280
idea is it's groups of four
things that are connected.

1444
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,800
That's what it's called, Only
Connect, Connect 4, Not quite

1445
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,720
Connect Four now, but the show
itself is incredibly hard.

1446
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,840
It's one of them shows where if
you get like 2 questions in the

1447
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,040
whole episode, you're pleased to
yourself.

1448
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,400
It sounds like a bit of you.
Yeah, but I've shipped it back

1449
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:04,920
for you, Mr Quickest Thing.
Thank you.

1450
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,440
So I'm going to give you 2
rounds.

1451
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,280
OK.
The first round is connection.

1452
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,080
So in this first round, I'm
going to read to you one at a

1453
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,080
time something, and you have to
find out what the connection is,

1454
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,800
OK?
If you get it after one clue,

1455
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,800
you get 5 points.
So you get one clue and be like,

1456
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:24,080
oh, I think I know what this
connection is.

1457
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:25,560
That's mad.
And have a prediction.

1458
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:26,800
It's really hard to get five
points.

1459
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,760
After 2 you get 3 points.
After three you get 2 points and

1460
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:32,880
then if you have to have all
four and you get the connection,

1461
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,600
you get a point.
The only issue is you can't just

1462
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,040
randomly guess and then keep
guessing.

1463
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,120
I get one.
You get one guess and you got to

1464
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,000
decide whether you want the next
clue or if you want to have a

1465
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,880
guess.
And if you want to have a guess,

1466
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,000
you lock it in with me and then
write it down, keep it in your

1467
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,040
head, and then we'll carry on
with the people at home.

1468
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:50,800
So I need to write this.
Down.

1469
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:52,600
No.
You can do it yet, but write it

1470
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,400
down for people listening who
can't see that you don't have a

1471
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:55,720
pen to pretend you've written it
down.

1472
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:56,880
But you won't lie.
Yes.

1473
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,120
OK, OK, so here we go, right.
And, and by the way, this is, I

1474
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,280
have like fostered it.
So it's like education.

1475
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:03,240
So I'm not going to shout out
the.

1476
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,600
Answer no, no, no, no.
You're going to say next clue or

1477
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,560
lock in and I'll keep going for
people at home anyway.

1478
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:08,800
I will write it down.
I've got a.

1479
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:09,320
Pen.
No, it's fine.

1480
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:10,440
Let's go.
Anyway.

1481
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:11,560
Ready.
Yeah.

1482
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,520
What's the link between these
four apparently random clues?

1483
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:21,480
Here's the first one, P.
Next clue?

1484
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:32,680
OK, now for three points, Musk.
So you've got P Musk.

1485
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:43,480
Next clue?
3rd 1 mats mats mats.

1486
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:49,400
You've got P Musk mats. 2 points
if you get the connection now.

1487
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,000
Is it people at home?
Might be might be shouting.

1488
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,680
Education related, you say?
I told you everything before.

1489
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:03,200
P Musk mats next clue.
OK, 4th and final clue.

1490
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:12,800
Hi, Tory.
Hi Tory, I have no clue what you

1491
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,640
are talking about.
One last time, all four.

1492
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,400
What's the connection?
P Musk, Mats.

1493
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:23,720
Hi, Tory.
No clue.

1494
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,160
You'll never guess.
All I can think the problem is

1495
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:27,920
with my brain.
Wrong.

1496
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,920
You said Musk.
So all I can think of is Elon

1497
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:30,440
Musk.
OK.

1498
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,600
And I can't think of anything.
I've not told you the spelling.

1499
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:34,680
If it's this is a real, by the
way, you'll have the spelling.

1500
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,000
I've not told you the spelling.
No, but there's.

1501
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:39,400
Of Musk, No.
Yeah, OK, but that's what you

1502
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:39,920
think.
Given up.

1503
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:41,600
Yep, 0 points.
Well done at home if you've got

1504
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,200
this.
The link is they are all

1505
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:48,040
subjects with one letter.
Remove PE is PE, Musk is music,

1506
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,640
maths is maths.
Hi Tori is history.

1507
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,240
Oh, my days.
That's a good.

1508
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,080
That's a really good game.
That's good with it.

1509
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's one of those things where

1510
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:58,600
I felt like if I saw them
written down.

1511
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,440
Yeah, you would have.
I obviously didn't.

1512
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,440
And I was like, I'm not going to
tell you because if I say, if I

1513
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,080
say, oh, by the way, the
spelling of this, you

1514
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:05,560
automatically think of that as
important.

1515
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:07,920
So I left it.
But even they say yeah, that.

1516
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:09,840
Was a really cool question.
OK, next one.

1517
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,280
This one is now what would be
round two in the show and it's

1518
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:14,640
the same thing.
So there's a there's a

1519
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,080
connection here.
There's a connection here

1520
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,560
between these four things.
But I'm not going to tell you

1521
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,240
the 4th 1.
You need to tell me what the 4th

1522
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:23,920
one would be because this is a
sequence now.

1523
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,280
So you have to figure out, yeah,
they're linked, but what's the

1524
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:27,520
sequence?
They're coming in order of

1525
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:29,480
something.
So for this one, five points,

1526
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,080
you get it after one, three
points, you get it after 2, two

1527
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,000
points, you get it after three.
And then there is no chance for

1528
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:35,680
one point because you are going
to tell me the last one.

1529
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:37,360
So I don't want to hear the link
anymore.

1530
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,880
I want to hear what would come
forth in this sequence, the

1531
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:41,960
first one.
James Cleverly.

1532
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:53,040
OK, next clue.
Second kit Malthouse next clue

1533
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:54,040
I.
Think you're going to get it

1534
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:55,000
now?
Everyone at home we haven't

1535
01:00:55,000 --> 01:01:02,360
already #3 Jillian Keegan.
Oh, and I've got to get the next

1536
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:03,480
one right.
At any point, you've got to tell

1537
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:04,800
me what would come fourth in
this sequence.

1538
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:09,920
What's that name?
Is it Bridget Fuller?

1539
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:13,280
Yes, do what?
Was the sequence.

1540
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,720
It was education secretary.
Education secretary in order and

1541
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:18,160
you know.
I didn't recognise.

1542
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:20,840
The second one, well, because
honestly if you look at the like

1543
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:22,800
graph, yeah, you had like four
in a row.

1544
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:24,200
Who honestly did it for like 2
months?

1545
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,000
Nadeem Zahawi was James was
before James Cleverly.

1546
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,520
Oh OK.
And they did it for so long.

1547
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,760
Do you know when like Boris
resigned and then trust came in

1548
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:33,680
and then trust resigned?
Nobody they had different.

1549
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,520
Because I recognised James, I
couldn't think who he was.

1550
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,040
I was like James Cleverly.
I know that name is.

1551
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,480
He, I think he, he was the
foreign secretary before when

1552
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,640
the Tories his name.
So he's done a lot of big jobs.

1553
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:42,920
He's currently going for the
leadership.

1554
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,120
Who was the second person?
Kit Malthouse.

1555
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:46,800
Kit Malthouse.
Do you know what?

1556
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:48,120
I didn't know that.
You contribute a lot.

1557
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:50,520
I don't know if it's he or she.
Imagine if I don't know if you

1558
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:52,840
did.
Maybe, but it was tiny.

1559
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,000
It was like weeks or months,
like no time at all.

1560
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:55,920
So I thought that was a good
one.

1561
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:57,400
And then when Gillian came up, I
was like, yeah.

1562
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:58,600
Come on, you got it.
That's a good game.

1563
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,040
That is a really good game.
I think that is such a you game.

1564
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:02,920
It's so your brain.
It's crazy.

1565
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,760
It's like you, it's like quiz,
but also links and like, oh,

1566
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,520
what comes next?
Anyway, well done at home.

1567
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,120
If you beat Hayden, let me know
how many points you got.

1568
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:10,960
You did Hayden, you got two
points.

1569
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,760
I got two points.
I have a possible 10 That's not

1570
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,640
bad, but I don't know if anyone
would have got any of them are.

1571
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,280
Supervised to 1/5.
Well done.

1572
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:18,680
Right.
We're gonna finish up there.

1573
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:20,080
Yeah.
Hayden, anything else to say

1574
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,200
before we?
No, let's run again next week.

1575
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:23,200
Should.
We well, I was hoping you would

1576
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,240
say something about maybe giving
us a review or following.

1577
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:25,840
Us.
Oh, hang on.

1578
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:27,000
That's what you normally do.
Really.

1579
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:28,120
Hang on.
I'll say it.

1580
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:29,440
Just try again.
I don't know yet.

1581
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:33,080
OK, Go on, ask me.
Again, Hayden, you wanna For the

1582
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,480
first time ever, I'm asking you
just in this episode.

1583
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,440
Anything else you wanted to say?
Perhaps before the end of the

1584
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:37,760
episode?
I'm.

1585
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,840
Looking forward to a.
Random week guys, follow us on

1586
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,320
Instagram, join the crew at
Teach Sleep Repeat podcast.

1587
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:45,920
We're doing that thing where we
lean forward.

1588
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,080
Yeah, This Is Us towards the
camera because we know the

1589
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,240
episode is ending.
Give us a review.

1590
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,360
We're nearly 100 on Spotify.
We might already be there, I

1591
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:53,800
don't know.
But help us out, guys.

1592
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:55,960
It really does go a long way.
See you next time.

1593
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:56,400
Next time.