Ep 78: How Toxic Schools Use "Accountability" To Bully & Intimidate Teachers

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Hey guys, quick one before we
get started this week, Hayden,

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that's me.
We've had hundreds, literally

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hundreds of new listeners in the
last week or two.

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Amazing.
Welcome to you all.

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And if you're an old listener,
we wouldn't forget about you,

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obviously, our customers.
But there is one thing, the

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number of listeners we have is
quite a lot more than a number

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of reviews we have.
So I'm going to do a little bit

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of begging, a bit of grovelling.
I'm trying to do this very

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often.
But before we get started for

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this episode, please, whatever
you're listening on right now,

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can you go to the rating system,
whether it's Apple podcast,

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Spotify, or anything else that
you might use, and just leave us

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a review?
It really helps us, doesn't it?

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Hey, what?
Kind of review.

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Oh, oh, let's clarify this.
Let me sync.

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Oh, out of the five stars, we
would like to no, at least plant

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that seed in their mind.
At least 4, At least five.

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At least five.
At least five out of four.

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Yeah, you can go more than that
if you want, but at least five

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out of five.
Wow.

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Thank you.
We appreciate it.

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And should we crack on this
episode?

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Let's do it.
Hello everyone, welcome back to

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another episode of Teach Sleep.
Repeat.

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My name is.
Dylan, and my name is Hayden.

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And we're back.
Wow, I can see your brain

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thinking what should I say?
What should I say?

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What?
Should I do to say, hey Dylan?

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Hey, Dylan, Yep, I'm going to do
your bit.

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How's your week been mate?
Oh.

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No one ever asked me how my
week's been.

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I'm so wasted in a few again.
I kind of don't like the fact

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you've gone off script, but I'm
going to have.

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Script.
Script.

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As if we ever plan anything in
these episodes.

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Come on.
Yeah, but anyone who listens

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knows the 1st 27 words of this
podcast are always the same,

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always 20.
Seven or did you make that?

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Up.
I made that up.

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But Can you imagine if it is 27?
Or should we count?

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Shit now.
Ready.

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Hello, everyone.
Welcome back to another episode

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of Teach Sleep.
Repeat.

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That's eleven.
Yeah, my name is Dylan, 15.

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And my name?
It is Hayden. 21 and we're back

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24.
And we're back with with another

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episode 27.
That's what we say every time,

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isn't it?
Anyway, now I've wasted enough

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of your time.
My week has been great.

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I've got a few stories I want to
tell you.

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Yes, please do.
Obviously, for anyone who

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doesn't know who's a new
listener, we are literally

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current primary school teachers.
One thing, this is not at all

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anything we planned, but it's
just coming to my head

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immediately.
I never knew this was a problem

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or not a problem necessarily,
but even a thing before I saw a

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thread, someone just posted on
threads and said they couldn't

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quite believe the amount of
people out there on like edge

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you space online, whether it's
Twitter or Instagram or stuff.

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Why do so many people pretend to
still be teachers?

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And I was like, what?
And and then I thought about it

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and the point that I'm making is
there's so many like influencers

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and stuff out there who post
stuff like, oh, back to school

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this September.
That's a bloody and they're not

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even in teaching, like they've
left teaching hilarious.

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Or they post like memes And it's
like, oh God, that feeling when

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it's Tuesday, it's assembly time
and you got to.

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And it's like, oh, you haven't
done that for years.

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I tell you why.
It's pretty bloody obvious,

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isn't it?
What's that?

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It's because you want
interaction or not.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
And obviously that gets it.

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But I never, I was so oblivious
to it until I read this.

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And I was like, I'll keep an eye
out for that.

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And then like.
Over the next week on social

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media, I was just like, wait a
minute, all of these people who

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post this stuff aren't actually
even teaching right now.

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When are we going to tell him
that we're not?

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We've been pretending.
We didn't even do teaching

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qualifications.
He didn't actually fulfilled his

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career as a historian.
My, my actual name is Mary

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Beard.
The seventh.

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You don't know?
No, anyone out there knows Merry

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Beard.
That's who I actually AM.

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Fantastic and I work in film,
radio and television.

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Are you Steven Spielberg?
I am Steven Spielberg, except

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I'm kind of like the one from
Wish.

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What I do is I produce a
podcast.

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It's not even on the real radio.
I produce a podcast called Teach

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State, Repeat.
That's what I do.

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It doesn't pay very well.
Though I'm going to call you the

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T Moon Nolan for an hour.
The T The T Moon.

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Nolan.
Oh, Nolan.

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Oh, here we go.
I I combined that into one word.

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What's a team of Nolan?
A team of Nolan.

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I love a team in a a team.
Christopher Nolan got the film

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No team.
Team is is like Wish from Wish,

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isn't it?
Yeah.

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Team is like the Wish version of
Wish.

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Yeah, like it's even worse.
What's Wish from Wish TV?

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I can't wait for the next
iteration as our society

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descends into a complete.
Brain rock.

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Good team move.
It's like that's from Wish mate.

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That's that.
Wish is from eBay and ebay's

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from Amazon.
Like, come on, where are we

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going?
And the and the thing we learn

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from this is don't spend your
own money on stuff at school

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because you'll end up just on
the bottom rung.

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Yeah, team is awful, by the way.
Anyone of us has bought from

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Team Move, I wanna say that.
What you have?

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You have, haven't you?
Yeah, I know.

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And I I I I thought, no, I have.
I know you have to clarify that

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when I said only one of us knew,
know.

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You have right?
I didn't know what you said.

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I was laughing.
No, I've bought from Team Move

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and I felt shame almost straight
away.

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I was like, isn't this bad?
And then I did some research and

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I was like, I'm never buying
from team again because it's

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it's, it's essentially, isn't it
like the Chinese, like Amazon?

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But I honestly have no idea.
It's so cheap.

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And whenever anything's really
cheap, you just have to ask

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yourself.
Why is it so cheap?

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Ah, exploitation of.
Yeah, alright, yeah, don't buy

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it from team.
I'm never gonna do it again.

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Yeah, although I do now have.
Or any shops for that matter.

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Any shops of any sort of kind
other than locals also don't

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bother.
Them it's horrendous.

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Anyway, my week back away from
saving the world back to my

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week.
It's been good.

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I'm gonna talk about a lesson I
had in a second, but as of

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recording today, I wanted to get
your opinion on this because I

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don't know.
I think I know the answer, but I

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don't actually.
So I wanna know what you think

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about superstitions, because
today that's my answer is as a

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recording Friday the 13th.
And obviously it's like I was

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listening to the radio on the
way to yours and they were like,

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oh, it's Friday the 13th.
Oh, and I was just like, shut

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up.
Damn, isn't it as you put your

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other hand on the steering
wheel?

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A crow flies across me in the
black.

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Cat zooms past.
Do you drive under a ladder?

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Why is that even here this?
Is weird.

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Rd works.
What do they do?

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Yeah, drive over a crack in the
pavement.

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I'm driving in the crack.
Oh God, yes, Do you?

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My umbrellas up in the car.
It's so unlucky.

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Turn around and there's a table
on your side and your shoes are

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on it.
I grew up in a household to say

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that where where my stepdad was
very superstitious.

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So all these kind of things were
genuinely like rules of our

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house.
It was just mental.

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No bloody ladders across my
living room.

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Don't do that.
Honestly, one time or two times.

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I've got 2 quick stories for you
so I'm sorry I'm hijacking, but

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one number one, brought some new
shoes, school shoes came in, put

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them on the table brand new,
obviously clean, absolutely fine

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to put on a table.
And I got told off because you

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didn't put new shoes on a table.
That's bad luck.

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I was like are.
You talking about?

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Yeah, and the second time was
the umbrella.

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Came here with an umbrella and I
put it up as a joke, just like

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playing around with it.
Put I put the umbrella down as

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bad luck.
I was like what you talking

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about mental?
So.

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So I think we've got the artist
of migration.

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You're not remotely
superstitious.

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I think it's so dumb.
It's so dumb.

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There's a difference in there
between, like, habits and maybe

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even manners.
Yeah.

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And superstitions.
If someone said it's bad manners

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to put shoes on the table, I'd
still be like, they're brand

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new.
Yeah, they're brand new.

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But.
Yeah, that is bad manners.

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You do.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And you?
Don't want to put germs on it,

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so I get it.
But no, what I mean just another

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superstition thing.
You'll know this because it

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happened to us when we had we
had our babies, right?

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What do people like?
Well, the people like and it's

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kind of different.
It's.

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Gonna be those people listening
who do this.

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By the way, I'm sorry we're
gonna RIP into you.

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I'm gonna do it anyway.
We're gonna do it anyway.

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But yeah, there's loads of loads
of like ways ways to find out

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the gender of your child.
No, no, no, no, no, no there

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isn't.
There's one way to find out the

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gender of your child and that's
through a scan or waiting until

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they come out.
OK, there are lots of different

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ways.
Old wives tales, they wait.

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Should we should we go for a
scan and get a qualified

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professional medic to tell me
the gender of my child or or

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wait for it?
Should I we on a leaf of cabbage

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because.
One about 5050 which?

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I think they're about the same,
but.

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I was really mean.
I was really, really mean.

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This is so cruel of me.
I should have done it, but I'm

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just.
I can't let things go, right?

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Yeah, but Lauren's mum came
around and they would do it.

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Lauren and her mum were just
being really cute.

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They were being sweet.
And I should have left it at

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that.
Yeah.

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And they?
Probably didn't actually think

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I'm.
Sure, they didn't, but they were

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doing these wives tales and me
being me, I was like, well,

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actually, no, these don't
actually work.

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And I'm going to prove that to
you.

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But rather than just being like,
oh, that's sweet, like, enjoy

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that.
It's a nice moment.

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I've ruined it.
Yeah.

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And they were doing that thing
where you, like dangler

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necklace.
Maybe it has to be a cross.

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I don't know what.
Oh, it has to be a cross.

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I don't know.
No, no, no.

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It wouldn't work if it was like.
Cross, I think it just has to

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actually doesn't.
I think it just has to be

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something that can dangle.
It has to dangle it over.

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Because otherwise it otherwise
it wouldn't work.

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That would work, yeah.
It wouldn't work, the wives told

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me.
Yeah, you have to dangle it over

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the then.
Otherwise the old wives.

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Sorry, old wives and their
tails.

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I read the.
Tails, they told you.

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Have to dangle it over the belly
right?

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And the based on the direction
that it spins it tells you

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whether it's a boy or girl.
So it's clockwise or Ant

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clockwise.
Obviously it spins by itself.

228
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:09,840
Oh, by itself.
It spins by itself.

229
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,080
Doesn't spin by itself.
No, it does.

230
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,600
Whether or not the child is a
boy or a girl makes it spin

231
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:14,760
either.
Clockwise Ant clockwise.

232
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,840
They were doing it and it was
spinning a certain way, I can't

233
00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,760
remember what.
Oh, it's a girl certain way and

234
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,080
I was like I was like, oh, come
on, guys, you're being serious.

235
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:22,320
It doesn't work.
They're like no, it does.

236
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,200
I was like, oh, don't make me do
it, don't make me do it.

237
00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,320
They're like, no, it does.
It works like, oh, I'm going to

238
00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,480
then give me that hell.
It dead still, dead still for

239
00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,200
like honestly 45 seconds.
Oh look, hasn't moved at all

240
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,560
because I'm not putting any
input into it.

241
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,360
Oh, there you go, there's your
game walks off both crying.

242
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,480
They're not really, but you know
that's I might as well have

243
00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:40,520
been.
I've ruined their thing.

244
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,520
You see, the ultimate version of
this was different.

245
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:45,920
This was after this.
I remember you telling me.

246
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,520
So we were all together.
Yeah.

247
00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,320
You and I and our Laurens.
And they were both pregnant at

248
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:50,080
the same time.
Yeah.

249
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,240
So we got up, didn't we?
A list of old wives tales,

250
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:54,400
Right.
And.

251
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,560
And there were like, there was
like 18 in a row.

252
00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:58,600
And there was like, well, we'll
test it if this works, because

253
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,160
if it works, obviously we'll all
get the same answers.

254
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:01,400
Every single. 1218 will be the
same.

255
00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,760
Completely, absolutely split.
Either way, don't remember what

256
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,000
they were.
And it was like, well, the

257
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,120
cabbage turns green when I we on
it so there's a girl in there.

258
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,280
But also, I have got an itchy
head so it must be a boy, Yeah?

259
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,320
Oh, man, it was so silly.
So and then the girls decided

260
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:17,400
didn't know.
I don't think they're doing it

261
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:18,920
to spite us at this point.
They were like, no, it does

262
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,240
work.
You have to take the average,

263
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,080
you know, like it's the one
which one most.

264
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, is actually
the one.

265
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,520
I wonder what I said today.
Invent wife's tales in that are

266
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:27,840
wrong on purpose today for this
game.

267
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

268
00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,160
They thought in the future
there'll be people who

269
00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,360
empirically look at this and go
for the average of all of the

270
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:34,160
ones that we put.
Together.

271
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:35,640
Yeah, yeah.
If they accidentally did,

272
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,880
imagine, if they imagine they
only picked the ones that all

273
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,440
gave them the same result And we
were sat there like because they

274
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,960
were obviously like eight or
nine that actually said girl.

275
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,040
And I'd be like, that's
annoying.

276
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,640
Oh, did you rub celery behind
your ear and it turned grey?

277
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,320
It's a girl.
Oh, you just got dusting ears,

278
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,840
so you're.
Just allergic.

279
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,160
You're just allergic to celery.
A rash in my ear.

280
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:57,960
It must be a boy.
No, no, you need to go to the

281
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,000
doctor's.
You're allergic to celery.

282
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,000
What are we?
Doing so, are you you

283
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,520
superstitious at all?
Yeah.

284
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:06,720
Absolutely.
Completely.

285
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:07,960
Yeah, absolutely.
Friday 13th.

286
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,960
Yeah, 13th.
That's hilarious.

287
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,800
I'm just gonna say one thing to
you, OK 'cause you said you've

288
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:14,720
got a story to tell.
Yeah, I do.

289
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,200
Yeah.
About a drink.

290
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:17,800
Yeah, I'm actually.
Look, I was just thinking of it.

291
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:18,720
Yeah.
We've come to the same point at

292
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,440
the same time because I was
looking at your Pepsi.

293
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,640
Yeah.
So Pepsi Max for anyone's Pepsi

294
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:23,480
Max.
Pepsi Max.

295
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:24,960
What if anyone from Pepsi Max is
listening?

296
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,440
Wanna wanna?
Sponsor the podcast brought to

297
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,040
you by Pepsi Max.
We get sued or something.

298
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,440
There are other drinks available
that are low in sugar that are

299
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,400
low in sugar and have maximum
taste.

300
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,600
Us toying with company will just
crush us immediately we do

301
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,280
something wrong.
Teach Sleep Pepsi.

302
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,360
No, stop, cancel, cut, cut, go,
go.

303
00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,120
Anyway, so for listeners, Dylan
always has a drink precisely

304
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,360
over here.
I'm pointing if you're looking,

305
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,440
if you're not looking, it's in a
direction away from me.

306
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,160
He puts it right there.
What on this planet is not in a

307
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,680
direction away from you?
Anyway, he puts it in a place

308
00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:04,800
where I normally put my drink
when I'm just working at this

309
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,400
desk.
And last week we recorded on, I

310
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,320
think on a Friday, and then on
Sunday or Monday, I think it was

311
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,640
Monday evening.
I just instinctively reached

312
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,040
over and grabbed what I thought
was my drink, the water that I'd

313
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,520
poured maybe 10 minutes ago, and
I drank.

314
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,800
I don't know, you know, it was,
it was a good like 100

315
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:24,680
millilitres, you know what I
mean?

316
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:26,440
It wasn't like a it wasn't a
little drip.

317
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,720
Wow, that's a couple of
mouthfuls.

318
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,360
It was a chunk of water and I
drank it and as I swallowed the

319
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,560
last bit I realised.
I realised that it was your

320
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,240
leftover water from three days
ago and it made me feel sick.

321
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,800
For context, most people would
be like oh that's annoying, kind

322
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,200
of gone with it.
Makes me gag now.

323
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,520
Hayden doesn't even drink water
that's more than an hour old and

324
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,080
it's his.
Like he just.

325
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,280
I'd never drink out of your
glass.

326
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If anyone had remotely touched

327
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:51,480
it, would you?
I'm one of those people.

328
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,480
I'm sure I I can, it's just a.
Straight, no, no, I think we've

329
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,640
alienated half of that
superstitious story, but we're

330
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:57,800
down.
We're back down to our audience

331
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,120
from a couple of weeks ago.
They're all gone.

332
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,440
Yeah, they're all gone.
But I do I, I do think people

333
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:03,920
are either the kind, whereas
like they don't care.

334
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,520
They'll drink out of anything no
matter who's drunk out of it or

335
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,240
you specifically will never
drink out of anything unless

336
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,280
it's it's yours and anyone's
lips have touched it.

337
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:11,160
You are not drinking out of
that.

338
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,360
Well, I've got a story that
proves that I'm the second

339
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,080
person on that list.
I drink anything this this is

340
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,920
horrendous by the way, so if
anyone it's not I don't know

341
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,640
squeamish is the word, but if
you easily.

342
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,840
If anyone's mature, let's come
here for any serious kind of

343
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,160
reason.
If the superstitious chat didn't

344
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,080
get rid of you, this will.
So we went out for a night out

345
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,760
in Portsmouth.
One of my mates from work, I

346
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,880
used to work in Asda, as we've
said a million times so.

347
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,240
We're already 10 years.
Yeah, this is a long time.

348
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,200
This is like, I reckon this is
12 years ago.

349
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,720
My friend went to university in
Portsmouth and it was his

350
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,040
birthday and we'd worked at Asda
when we were in sixth form at

351
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:47,200
school.
He'd gone off to university.

352
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,840
He came back and did seasonal
work, so I still knew of him and

353
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,600
it was his birthday and we all
went to Portsmouth.

354
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,600
A bunch of us from Asda who were
around the same age just went

355
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,160
down to celebrate his birthday.
And in in Portsmouth there's a

356
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,960
club called Tiger Tiger, so good
they named it twice.

357
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,360
And apparently I think it's a
chain.

358
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,560
There's a few in London and
stuff, but a big huge club with

359
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:07,640
lots of different levels and
floors and rooms and like here's

360
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,200
an R&B room and here's a country
room, whatever it is.

361
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:12,920
So we were we were on a night
out.

362
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,240
Imagining in a club with my hat
with me if I'm going clubbing

363
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,280
with my massive.
Boots Yeah, Cowboy, pass me the

364
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,520
Jaeger Barb actually speak now.
Anyway, so I was having a drink,

365
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,400
we're out, having a good time
having a few drinks, and I put

366
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,960
my drink down on the table,
turned to talk to someone, had a

367
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,880
chat, had a little dance, cool,
nice one.

368
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:40,400
Just went to grab my drink
again.

369
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,840
Obviously just I knew my drink
was there, so I just picked it

370
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,880
up and drank it to my mouth and
drank some.

371
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,080
Stopped what?
Looked at it wasn't my cup.

372
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:50,720
It was a cup someone had thrown
up in.

373
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,840
Oh, Oh my God, that is the worst
ending, that story.

374
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,680
I'm not joking.
I'm not joking.

375
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,400
That was a real reaction.
Like absolutely.

376
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,200
Like I felt sick.
Then yeah, yeah, I don't.

377
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,080
I feel sick talking about it.
I I feel so fringe right now.

378
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,080
Genuinely, right, genuinely
because I wasn't looking.

379
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,840
I took the first look.
I took the first sip as if it

380
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,400
was just my drink.
So I was like, I feel.

381
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,360
Sick.
This is disgusting.

382
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:20,000
And I just went and I, I
swallowed the first, Oh my God,

383
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,280
that's true.
I we genuinely, we genuinely

384
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,080
have to stop talking because I
actually think I'm gonna crop.

385
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,760
It's so disgusting.
I need some water.

386
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,200
So the thought of doing that?
Tainted's eyes are actually

387
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,640
watering now.
Yeah, That is the that's

388
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,880
probably the worst story that is
revolving.

389
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,160
That is probably the worst story
of my life, genuinely.

390
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,760
Yeah.
Oh mate, I have no words.

391
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,360
That is so disgusting.
I can't believe.

392
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,080
I didn't expect that.
I didn't know where you were

393
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:47,440
going with this.
I was like, oh, it's just going

394
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,760
to be someone's dregs or
someone's like mixed beer with

395
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:50,840
something.
You were disgusting.

396
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,080
Sick, sick Someone's sick, so
they.

397
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:58,080
Asked for it back, Drink, get me
a new one.

398
00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:59,480
Turns out it was just Malibu and
go.

399
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,760
I just want.
To say, oh mate, that is

400
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,160
absolutely, absolutely
revolting.

401
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:04,800
No wonder you were.
I'm gonna worry about telling

402
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,080
that on this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

403
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,520
Beforehand, Aiden said he wants
a drink story.

404
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:09,960
And I was like, I've got a
horrible drink story.

405
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,360
Oh God, that's that's right.
I mean, we should probably move

406
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,280
on because we're like 17.
Years now.

407
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:16,320
We will, we will, we'll crack
up.

408
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,600
Had a nice week.
I want to talk in the future

409
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,400
about RE first kid and kids and
their fascination with it.

410
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,480
I'm not going to go into detail
now, but maybe if you stick

411
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,920
around in a couple of weeks,
we'll tell that story as well of

412
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,520
that first RE lesson with your
class where they're just

413
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,160
completely unfiltered asking
questions.

414
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:32,680
Go on, you got.
No, no, no, no.

415
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,640
We'll go into it in more detail
earlier, OK, The only I'll say,

416
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,200
I'll say one thing quickly
before we carry on.

417
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,760
OK, go.
Into it more detail earlier.

418
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,760
Listen back, guys, listen back.
There's one thing and it just

419
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,680
cracked me up.
Obviously very completely

420
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,280
impartial in the classroom.
Don't necessarily I'm not trying

421
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,920
to influence what anyone says,
but I I personally, I'm an

422
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,040
atheist.
I don't believe in God and I'm

423
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,000
in a church school.
Then we teach Christianity and

424
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,600
say Christians believe this and
you're giving them all the

425
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,720
things they need to know that
people have different beliefs

426
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,320
and we celebrate them all that.
So disclaimer.

427
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,160
However, obviously I sometimes
find things funny.

428
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,520
So this one kid, I couldn't help
it.

429
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,839
I we were doing the creation
story, OK.

430
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,680
And we talked about how this is
a story that Christians used to

431
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,319
describe how they think the
world started.

432
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:19,560
That's what they believe,
because there are some questions

433
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,079
we simply don't know.
Like we we don't know what was

434
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:25,079
there when the universe created.
We have scientific explanations

435
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:27,599
that might be slightly different
of how old they think the

436
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,480
universe is and how long it's
been or how things came to be.

437
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,120
But Christians have this story
where their God created

438
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,640
everything in seven days and
rested on the last day.

439
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:36,680
Yeah.
So we were going through this

440
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,560
story very much of the in the,
the situation of this is what

441
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,920
Christians believe.
And, and a lot of our children

442
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,480
are Christians, obviously,
because they're a Christian

443
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:44,640
family.
They go to Christian School, but

444
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,360
lots of them aren't.
And lots of them, lots of them

445
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:48,160
don't believe in it or they're
even in a different faith.

446
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,240
We've got some people from
Islam.

447
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,880
And so we're just, we're just
basically looking at this story,

448
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:53,920
but like, this is what they
believe.

449
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,560
Literally.
Religious education, exactly.

450
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:56,920
That should be taught exactly
that.

451
00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,400
And I love, I love doing it
because I love showing them what

452
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,400
different people believe.
It's really, really good to do

453
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,600
with children.
And anyway, we were doing a

454
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,840
creation story and obviously
God's at the start of it,

455
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,960
honestly.
And then on the first day it

456
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,120
said God created the light and
the dark, the day and the night.

457
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,440
And then we're talking through
and I was like, OK, so day one,

458
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,200
Christians believe God created
the day and the light.

459
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,280
Day 2.
And whilst I'm doing this,

460
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,040
there's just this kid who looks
really confused, like honestly,

461
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,120
like really in deep thought.
And that's a great thing about

462
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:24,480
RE kids do get into deep
thought.

463
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,120
And she was just saying what?
And she put her hand up and I

464
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,040
was like, yeah, OK, go on.
What do you think?

465
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,440
Because it's very open, lots of
questions.

466
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,560
And she went, right.
So God, God created light.

467
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,240
Yeah, on day one.
So before that was he just sat

468
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,440
in the dark.
Kid minds.

469
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,280
I love that he.
Was so good, like was it just

470
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,240
really dark?
How did he?

471
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,120
Yeah, he just sat in the dark.
Himself and then another kid, so

472
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,720
cute because kids do this.
Obviously he, he's a Christian.

473
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,280
He said he believes in God.
And he went no, no, no, no, no,

474
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,600
don't worry.
God just created a little circle

475
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,400
of light around him.
He's a little circle of light

476
00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,760
around him the whole time.
Yeah, that one.

477
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:02,240
Yeah, that one.
Yeah, but I just cracked me up.

478
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,320
I just the the idea that, you
know, you're just telling the

479
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,280
story and these kids are really
sat there going OK, do I do I

480
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:08,880
think, wait, what?
They're imagining, obviously.

481
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,160
They're imagining God.
Exactly.

482
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,640
It's hard to not, not to imagine
something, a being, a being.

483
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:13,720
Yeah.
So they're just imagining as a

484
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:14,280
person.
But.

485
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,720
There's nothing created yet, we
just sat, sat there in the dark.

486
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,400
Should I create light?
Yeah, yeah, OK.

487
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,600
Yeah, on his chair.
He's already created chairs at

488
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,240
this point.
Sat there, it just crammed me

489
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:26,320
up.
Anyway, let's go on to this

490
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,040
episode.
We're going to talk all about

491
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,760
how to actually keep teachers
accountable, which is really

492
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,320
important, but without being
toxic.

493
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:38,640
Please.
Bloody hell, keeping teachers

494
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,680
accountable is obviously really
important.

495
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,960
I don't think there's a single
teacher in the country who

496
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,760
thinks that we shouldn't have
any accountability.

497
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,240
But there's a, there's a theme
at the minute of, you know,

498
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,320
stripped back off, stared, give
teachers these rights and stuff.

499
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,280
And we're on board with that
100%.

500
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,320
You shouldn't be under severe
pressure.

501
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,760
But we do have to keep them
accountable.

502
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,520
We have to check if they're
doing their job properly,

503
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,480
obviously.
So we're going to dive into now.

504
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,000
I guess firstly, how are
teachers actually kept

505
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,680
accountable?
So what are the things that we

506
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,400
common ways they say, common
ways that we might have that

507
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,160
initially now and why they might
become toxic potentially.

508
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,400
Then we're going to spend the
bulk of the episode talking

509
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,240
about observations because I
think that's the biggest one.

510
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:18,600
I think if you go to a teacher
and say the word observations,

511
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:21,000
shadow would go through them.
A lot of teachers.

512
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,400
Everyone's got an observation
story.

513
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,200
Everyone we're going to, we're
going to talk about some

514
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,280
observation stories that you
guys have sent in to us that we

515
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,000
asked for.
And then we're going to finish

516
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,600
off by saying, so how do we
actually do this then?

517
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,880
How do we keep teachers
accountable without seeping into

518
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,160
that toxic trait of putting
loads of pressure on our

519
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:37,680
teachers?
How do we actually just make

520
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,560
sure they're doing the right
thing and help them?

521
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,120
Yeah, one extremely well planned
episode.

522
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:42,120
It sounds great.
I know, right?

523
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:43,960
Looking forward to the first
time ever.

524
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:46,880
So let's just start off then.
Let's think about observations

525
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,640
in general and I guess wider
just being held accountable.

526
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,120
Yeah, not observations.
So so observations is the first

527
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:54,840
one.
Yeah, yeah.

528
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,640
Well, the obvious one.
Is we're going to go into lots

529
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,440
of these in a second, so I guess
we can kind of skim over it,

530
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,360
come back to that.
But observations is simply just,

531
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,360
you know, your you, your lesson,
being watched and judged.

532
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,120
But we know that is not the only
way to be held accountable in a

533
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:07,720
school, and there are some other
common ways that we're just

534
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:08,920
going to go through.
So we're going to go through

535
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,360
them and we're going to talk
about, you know, how they're

536
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:13,480
done toxically.
Yeah, I guess so.

537
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,080
And and whether they cannot be
done, that'll be interesting.

538
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,000
We can we can have a chat go on
our sides off right number the

539
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,640
one, the first thing that comes
to mind based on the last

540
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,880
episode and our rant that you
put on my rant that you've put

541
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,280
online displays and just
generally like just judging

542
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,640
displays is what I mean by that.
That is definitely a thing,

543
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,240
isn't it?
Like I, I know there are schools

544
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,280
out there where someone will
come around head teacher or

545
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,720
whatever with a clipboard, a
list of things like boxes to

546
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,160
tick and they're just looking at
your room and looking at your

547
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,480
displays.
It's like what missing the

548
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,520
appropriate colour board for
that one.

549
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,160
What that one has not got four
pieces of people work displayed.

550
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,200
It's got three and they are from
last term.

551
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,360
Big fail.
You know that that experience.

552
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:55,520
I'm like, what do you think
about that?

553
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,880
Is that keeping teachers
accountable to their job?

554
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:00,960
No, obviously not.
And especially now it's

555
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,240
hilarious because we're in this
dichotomy at the minute of that

556
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,880
existing in some places and the
workload production task force

557
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,040
saying we shouldn't be doing
them anymore.

558
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,680
So it's like, cool, well, but
these shouldn't exist in the

559
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,640
same universe.
So I think we might be shifting

560
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,560
away from that.
I think a lot of the theme of

561
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,640
today's episode will be anyone
who taught in like the early 20

562
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,880
tens knows how insane this kind
of culture was in school.

563
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,320
So we're going to talk about.
That OK, let's let's frame it in

564
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,440
that mind, because we we taught
in that time it was more like

565
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:28,480
mid 2.
Thousand.

566
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,880
Yeah, it was.
Like, you know, 20/13/2017 new

567
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,040
curriculum.
Yeah, Ofsted pressure was like

568
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,760
worse than ever in like 2014,
2015, 20/16/26.

569
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,680
That era, I'm going to call it
like the, the pressure era, I'm

570
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,800
gonna make it up.
But it was horrendous,

571
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,040
genuinely.
And I think a lot of people will

572
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,320
be able to say, yeah, that was a
horrible time to work in in

573
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:48,720
schools because with so much
trickle down pressure that heads

574
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,680
were then being like, we don't
really know what Ofsted want.

575
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,320
But also, we're going to do
absolutely everything that we

576
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,520
think based on what we've heard
on the Internet and what we've

577
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:55,720
heard.
From the school, at school down

578
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,400
the road and Ofsted person
walked past the display and said

579
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,120
that's a nice display.
We need to do displays

580
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:02,600
everywhere.
We must do them right now when

581
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,000
you are going to do them in your
own time.

582
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,840
It was a horrible time to work
in, I'm gonna be honest.

583
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,200
With you, it was there were lots
of things.

584
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,120
Think about some more things.
So displays was one of them.

585
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:11,080
Just feeling that pressure of
like someone's gonna come around

586
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,520
my room every week and genuinely
just judge me based on nothing

587
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,200
keep of my display.
And just on the finishing point

588
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,040
there, I guess, you know, you're
not actually testing whatsoever

589
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,160
in this process whether displays
are being used in a certain way.

590
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,680
Yeah, So you are literally
seeing if they exist rather than

591
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,280
seeing if what they're doing is
useful.

592
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,080
And that developed different.
Remember that?

593
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,840
I actually remember the time
where it was suddenly like

594
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,040
working walls were then really
hot.

595
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,400
Sure.
So it's like, whoa, OK, working

596
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:35,560
more.
So all of us, you know, the tick

597
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,920
box list changed because it was
so meaningful before.

598
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,840
They obviously just completely
change it immediately overnight

599
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,040
and it doesn't matter anymore.
The old stuff and it and it

600
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,680
changed to OK, I need to see it
working more and then it was OK

601
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:45,880
I don't just want to see it
working more.

602
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,440
I need to see relevant work from
today on it.

603
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,720
And if it's not there and and a
story about that very quickly,

604
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:51,880
you're going to be judged on it
harshly.

605
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,640
So what ended up happening I.
Felt the need to in the middle

606
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,640
of my maths lesson at the front
of the room where I'm modelling

607
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,520
good maths and the kids are
practising it themselves and

608
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,000
they're about to go and start
their lesson.

609
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,200
I would have to stop myself in
the middle of my flow and these

610
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,000
kids learning stuff.
Oh, God, wait, stop.

611
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,840
Sorry, guys.
I need to do what I'm doing here

612
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,000
over in a really inconvenient
space in my classroom.

613
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,440
And my maths working wall
happens to be.

614
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,200
So just hold on for one second
and watch me.

615
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,480
And I'd walk over to the other
corner of my room and no one can

616
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,600
see me where I put up this sheet
on my display board for mouse

617
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,560
that can be wiped clean.
Yeah, but wasn't it goes.

618
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,720
Look over here.
Now I'm gonna partition the

619
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,240
number here because if I don't
partition the number here,

620
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,360
obviously it never happened.
When someone comes in, they're

621
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:32,080
gonna and they might come in.
Yeah, See that?

622
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:34,440
How on earth can I model work?
And it's not on my working wall

623
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,120
on my maths working wall.
Like just get some teachers will

624
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:38,880
use it brilliantly.
Great.

625
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,560
Do you know what I didn't?
Because I just did a lot

626
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:41,840
modelling on the board and it.
Was fine.

627
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,720
I'll tell you what it brings me
to my next point, which is

628
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,360
essentially the same point but a
bit wider.

629
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,480
Learning walks in general
learning walk.

630
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,080
I don't want your schools called
them So what can they or now?

631
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,200
Use what is learning a?
Learning walk is when SLTS or

632
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,240
some of SLT or some whoever's
monitoring will come around and

633
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:57,920
not just looking at your
displays, they're looking at

634
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,680
everything.
They will just come around your

635
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,040
classmates.
Not necessarily an observation

636
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,840
like where you're going to get,
where someone sits there for the

637
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:03,840
whole lesson and writes down,
but.

638
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,400
It is kind of formal, isn't it?
Because it's a, it's a.

639
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,000
Planned thing.
It's a plan thing.

640
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,000
We're going to be walking around
the school and this week or this

641
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,480
day and we're going to focus on
focus on hey, there are 42

642
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,120
ladies or one thing, you know,
just them as well.

643
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,400
Like I hated that time, but do
you not think so thinking about

644
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,440
that kind of level of toxicity?
Anyone can imagine that kind of

645
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,560
dread got almost you know that
the heads coming round with the

646
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,080
mass development lead during the
mass session.

647
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,320
Is that inherently bad though?
No, because this is the thing,

648
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,880
right?
Learning to me, the display 1 is

649
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,880
just pointless to I'm just like
just what?

650
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,440
I shut up, whatever.
Yeah, but the learning walk is.

651
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,400
I get it though, because you
know what?

652
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,440
If we're holding teachers
accountable, we probably should

653
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,200
check in some form that like,
the kids are facing the front.

654
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:51,920
Yes.
Just like really basic things

655
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,480
where it's like, OK, we're going
to patronise teachers.

656
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,040
But we probably, there probably
is a place for managers to like,

657
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,720
you know, actually go and make
sure, of course, that some basic

658
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,360
things are in place that
children put in the hand.

659
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:01,680
They're not shouting out.
They're not throwing things

660
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,840
across the room and the teachers
not doing anything about it.

661
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:05,080
Like, I get it.
Yeah.

662
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,680
But I don't know.
There was just something about

663
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,160
the way it felt and all the time
and.

664
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,080
Well.
It it was the culture of

665
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,840
judgement rather than the
culture of help and providing.

666
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,160
So maybe that, so that that was
the biggest thing for me is I am

667
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,720
more than happy for anyone to
walk around through my lesson in

668
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,160
my lesson.
Come in, come and join us.

669
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,880
Brilliant.
If the attitude is right, you

670
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,600
know, and and you can judge me
as well.

671
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,680
And I might not like it always,
but you know what it doesn't?

672
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,440
I don't have to like it always,
as long as you.

673
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,040
What you're saying to me is, do
you know what?

674
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,400
I did notice this.
Yeah.

675
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,160
And do you know what we're going
to do because of it?

676
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,560
I'm going to rinse you and make
you feel awful and give you a

677
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,240
bad grading and then tell you
you're bad.

678
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,960
Or you could just say, so do you
know what?

679
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,120
I want you to go and see this
teacher who does this really

680
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:48,280
well.
What can I do for you to help

681
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,360
you overcome this?
It's the framing.

682
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,400
There is a way.
The learning walk itself isn't

683
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,320
necessarily a bad thing.
It's probably a good thing, but

684
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,640
it has to be the framing has to
be.

685
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,560
We'll come back to know more
later because when we get to the

686
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,080
bit where we're saying, OK, what
can we do to keep 10 teachers

687
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,360
accountable, I think there'll be
a nice little link to that.

688
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,280
But I tell you what, there's one
thing in my mind, and I know

689
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,280
it's in your mind as well.
If something where it really

690
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,680
sticks in my mind as being like
horribly negative and toxic,

691
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,600
right, of something that
happened in the past.

692
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,160
I'm not going to go into any
more detail detail than that of

693
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,360
a member of SLT coming round on
a learning walk or whatever it

694
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:19,840
was called at that.
I don't know what it was.

695
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,880
And going into classrooms and in
the middle of the lesson,

696
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,800
genuinely if they saw something
out of place, like on a display

697
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,480
that was maybe a week, honestly
like a week out of date or it

698
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,720
had like just something wrong on
it, ripping it down in in the

699
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,720
middle of the lesson.
The teachers obviously just like

700
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,640
sweating, trying to pretend that
that's not happening and they're

701
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,160
going to keep delivering the
lesson really happy.

702
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,200
But whilst thinking, oh, that
SLT member is obviously furious

703
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,560
at me for this, for this, this
insignificant thing.

704
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,360
Do you remember that?
Yeah, like and things being

705
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:49,080
ripped off the walls.
And why what I really want to

706
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:54,160
say to this is that is
absolutely pathetic, disgusting.

707
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,440
And if anyone has ever done that
before you check yourself

708
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,040
because it's it's horrendous.
There's no way around it.

709
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,200
It is just absolutely abhorrent
to treat fellow professionals

710
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,840
that way.
If you find something wrong like

711
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,960
that, that you've just decided
is wrong because of the things

712
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,440
that you put in place yourself
and these criteria you've

713
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,040
made-up that are important, that
actually no things need to be

714
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,600
double backs on the backing
because I've decided they need

715
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,440
to be.
They're not, so I'm going to RIP

716
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,760
it off in front of the children
is pathetic.

717
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,840
It happened.
To me once do you know what it

718
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:26,960
was?
And it's stuck in my mind

719
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,920
because it really effects you
and it makes me hate that time

720
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,800
and not like the profession at
that time.

721
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,800
It was it was term 2 and I still
had a term 1 display up for my

722
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,480
like afternoon.
You sure?

723
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,320
So my my, it just wasn't the
right one.

724
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,040
It was said term one.
It still had all my term 1

725
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,040
stuff.
I just haven't got around to

726
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,280
putting up term twos one.
Yeah.

727
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,560
Because you were marking and
planning.

728
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,360
It probably was a couple of
weeks in, like I'm sure everyone

729
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,680
else had done it, but it was
like going into my class mid

730
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,440
class and then just like pulling
that down to be almost like just

731
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:55,680
reminding you've got to do the
new ones.

732
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,480
I pulled it down for you.
It's like that's not, that's

733
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,800
toxic, that's horrible.
It made me feel terrible.

734
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,920
And it's not reminding.
A reminder would be they noticed

735
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,680
that sent you an e-mail coming
spoke to at lunchtime.

736
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,760
Yeah, yeah, that's reminding.
Do you want a hand getting that

737
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,760
down later?
Yeah, I just.

738
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,760
Behaviour like that is so
disgusting and and this podcast

739
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,760
is for calling out stuff like
that.

740
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,280
Completely.
And I've, I've received messages

741
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,760
from people honestly saying this
exact thing, like ripping stuff

742
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,800
down, feeling awful and their
desire that they had more

743
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,160
confidence back then.
And this is what I want to say

744
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,360
to people now who especially
earlier on in their career or

745
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,440
later on in their career,
because it's a thing that I get.

746
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,280
I, I, I, I see them a lot more
than you do.

747
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,400
The messages that we get from
the podcast and we get a lot and

748
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,200
they're a mixture of things.
Number one is just saying thank

749
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,240
you for calling stuff out, you
know, really helping teachers,

750
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,880
really nice messages.
Then I also get some messages

751
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,080
from people who write there
saying what you're saying is

752
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,160
great.
But, you know, but you know,

753
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,720
it's not my fault though.
Like I struggle to say no

754
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:46,840
sometimes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

755
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,320
And it's it needs to come from
the top down and equal.

756
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,440
I'm like, yeah, it does.
And this behaviour that there is

757
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,280
nothing wrong with it.
Seeing this behaviour or having

758
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,680
it done to you and you feeling
like crap, that's normal.

759
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,600
That's a human reaction and it's
not your fault.

760
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,600
And when we sit here and say you
should be calling it out, we, I

761
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,800
want to make it really clear, we
are not victim blaming here.

762
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,920
Anyone who's been made to feel
like a piece of dirt at work

763
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,880
because of awful people doing
stuff like this, it's not your

764
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,840
fault.
No, it's there.

765
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,120
And it's, well, hard to call it
out.

766
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,240
Did I call it out at the time?
Absolutely not.

767
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,760
Did I say a thing about it?
Absolutely.

768
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,280
But you know what?
Would that person have done it

769
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,040
to a more experienced member of
staff who they thought would

770
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:19,960
call them out?
Probably not.

771
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,720
Yeah, they probably thought.
And in Korea, I'm going to make

772
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,960
a point moulding me.
Yeah, I was exactly.

773
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,200
I was, you know, a copy.
Isn't it horrendous?

774
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,000
But yeah, mad.
And it just.

775
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,560
It's funny that that sticks to
my mind, you know what I mean?

776
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,840
It's like almost like causes.
It almost makes me feel a bit

777
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:31,920
anxious thinking about it.
Yeah.

778
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,760
No, but but you know what that
person might say?

779
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,720
That's why I did it.
It's like, well, that's not how

780
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:36,960
you control.
I'll tell you what, it didn't

781
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,680
make me do my displays.
Yeah, it worked, but it made you

782
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,480
do something pointless and not
actually that helped the.

783
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:41,880
Children.
Yeah.

784
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,120
It made me feel upset.
And yeah.

785
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,400
So anyway, new one books book
lurks another way to be held

786
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,640
accountable as teachers, haven't
you?

787
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,760
Looked I used to that again.
I think this is anyone.

788
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,720
So let's, OK, let's go from the
macro level here.

789
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:55,960
Let's zoom out.
Yeah.

790
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,360
Book looks in general, yeah.
I can see why people might think

791
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,400
there'll be a good way to keep
teachers accountable.

792
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,120
And I think there are some
surface level things that if you

793
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,480
open a skim for a book, there
are some things you can take

794
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,640
from that.
Yeah, that you can praise or you

795
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,280
can point out to people.
I would like to see this

796
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,800
instead.
You know, you might look at

797
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,680
presentation in general.
You know, if you're three times

798
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,800
into maths and more than half
your class aren't presenting

799
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,480
your work neatly and you can't
read it properly, you might go

800
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,600
to a teacher and say what we're
doing for presentation is, and

801
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,920
then a teacher might say, gosh,
my class just can't hold a

802
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:28,880
pencil.
I do it every day.

803
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,440
I remind them constantly about,
OK, cool, let's see, can we make

804
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,440
a group for a presentation or
handwriting or something?

805
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,360
Can we help them?
That kind of stuff.

806
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,080
Cool.
You know, we lead maths and we'd

807
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,520
say, we say to people, do some
mix up starters first thing, do

808
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,600
them in the back of your book
though.

809
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,320
We're not because we're trying
to be like control every tiny

810
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,760
detail what someone's doing, but
simply because then we can

811
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,120
separate out the lesson
learning, which has a clear

812
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,240
procedure to practise work,
which is different for every

813
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,800
class.
There's a reason behind that.

814
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,640
We explained it, everyone does
it.

815
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,160
If someone wasn't doing it, do
you know what I wouldn't do?

816
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,800
Go in there and that there.
But yeah, honestly RIP it out in

817
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,360
front of them and then just
leave it in the middle of the

818
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:06,000
lesson.
To a kid.

819
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,880
Exactly.
Do you know what I do?

820
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:13,360
I go to see what you did.
I'd go to that teacher and I'd

821
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,280
say starters, is there a reason
you're doing them in the front?

822
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,160
Is it better for your class?
Is is there?

823
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,960
Are you finding that it's just
and they might go.

824
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,920
I waste so much time with my
young ones going to the back of

825
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,160
the book, setting up a new date,
doing a margin.

826
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,040
It's just so much learning time.
It's like, OK, cool.

827
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,280
Well, let's think of a solution.
Maybe you guys could do it on

828
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,400
whiteboards instead, because
that way I still get a clear

829
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,840
progression.
If I want to look at the books

830
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,840
at the front, the children
aren't getting confused because

831
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,920
they're going from there.
Lessons that are really heavily

832
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,960
structured, but in between
they're like doubling or

833
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,120
practising edition.
It's not random maths.

834
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,080
Let's try and keep that.
But you have a solution.

835
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,320
You could do it in whiteboards
instead.

836
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,720
And you're like, oh, Brill,
that's a nice one.

837
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,800
And you know what?
Does it matter that you've done

838
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,960
it on whiteboards and there's no
written evidence so that you've

839
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,040
done starters?
No, because I know you're doing

840
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:55,800
them.
Because you know what?

841
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,200
I can drop in.
And say learning did happen.

842
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,120
Well, I'm going to, I'm going to
throw this out there and say

843
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,240
when we get to the end and we
talk about how we can observe

844
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,960
teachers, how we can keep
teachers accountable, I am going

845
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,960
to say there is absolutely no
place for booklets whatsoever.

846
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,560
I think they are utterly,
utterly pointless, genuinely,

847
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,040
but only in a good system.
It's funny.

848
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,080
I think in the current system,
definitely needed, but I think

849
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,040
if you have the right way of
keeping teachers accountable,

850
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,200
you'll never, ever, ever need to
look in their books.

851
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,280
But again, how?
Many times have you had a middle

852
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,680
leader talk about having to do a
book look and it being that they

853
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,560
go I've got to do a book look,
what should I do?

854
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,480
Yeah, it's like, cool.
As soon as that's the question,

855
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,160
your time is not worth doing
that wasted.

856
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,120
It's completely you.
Haven't got anything to look

857
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,120
for.
And I think, I think I wanna say

858
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,120
right now it's come up in
everything is tick boxing.

859
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,400
Yeah, we isn't it?
We used to get feet.

860
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,720
So again, in this horrible toxic
culture we used to work in back

861
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,440
in the mid twenty 10s where it
just felt like every teacher had

862
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,400
a nightmare story.
Yeah, we used to get feedback

863
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,960
from book looks.
So not only was it just a book

864
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,000
look and maybe the head of years
notices something, a theme and

865
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,960
then can just say, oh, in
general guys, you need to make

866
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,360
sure no, no individualised
feedback per person, but that

867
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,720
individualised feedback would be
sent in an e-mail alongside

868
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,000
everyone else's individualised
feedback.

869
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,719
So you could very easily see in
pair, even sometimes in a table.

870
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:11,080
Yeah.
Yeah.

871
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:12,639
Where it go?
This class, this class, this

872
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,520
class.
And then literally a tick box of

873
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,199
four peer assessments this week.
Tick, tick, cross.

874
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,239
Yeah. 4 self assessments this
week.

875
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,199
Tick, tick, cross.
Yeah.

876
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,360
And that person with the cross
is obviously all dates

877
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,880
underlined, all walks
underlined.

878
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,800
My gosh, straight margins.
And it was like loads of things.

879
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,719
Yeah.
And this big old tick list,

880
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,280
wasn't it horrendous?
None of it.

881
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:31,880
None of it was about the quality
of learning.

882
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:33,920
Yeah, yeah, all about the
presentation.

883
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,480
Because evidence of problem
solving.

884
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,159
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, yeah.

885
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:38,639
Don't.
You don't need to look in the.

886
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,760
You can look in the book all you
want.

887
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,679
Yeah, you'll see a procedure.
You won't see the problem

888
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,080
solving that went on in the
child's mind to work out what to

889
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,840
do.
Just had to do extra work and

890
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,800
cut out the problem, knowing
that they didn't need to do this

891
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,040
to stick it in the book as
evidence.

892
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,960
So that's the one they were
doing, which is a waste of time.

893
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,120
Exactly.
Oh, my days.

894
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,120
Anyway, that's that's was free
because we're spending ages on

895
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,520
this.
A couple more things then.

896
00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,040
So yeah, all tick box stuff,
isn't it?

897
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,920
Displays learning walks, looking
at books, planning cheques in

898
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,640
general, same sort of thing, but
just checking people's planning.

899
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,520
Right.
You didn't write down what you

900
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,800
were doing.
In the task this time.

901
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,640
Oh my God, did it though, didn't
they?

902
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,320
Oh, this column.
You've not filled in the

903
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:12,320
plenary.
What you'll do?

904
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:13,680
What are you planning to do for
the plenary?

905
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,880
I didn't do one, mate.
No one's been doing them for 20

906
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,320
years.
No one does a plenary.

907
00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:18,920
Can we stop pretending?
Sorry.

908
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,080
Plenary.
Yeah.

909
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,840
I was getting them out for lunch
because we're 5 minutes late

910
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,640
doing the task.
Yeah, I finished my lunch.

911
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,360
On the door stop.
Sorry, I planned a plenary 2

912
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,800
weeks ago when I did and and we
need to do this gift.

913
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,200
But Sir, everyone's out for
lunch that we need to do a

914
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,840
plenary.
A plenary because I put on the

915
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,640
plan.
So yeah, planning looks, picture

916
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,600
sheets to evidence.
We just kind of talk about that

917
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,200
evidencing in the books that
learning has happened because

918
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,560
obviously you can't be trusted
as a teacher.

919
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:43,600
You would have done absolutely
nothing.

920
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:44,960
You didn't do that.
Unless there's somewhere in the

921
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,080
book, nothing happened.
Nothing there has another tick

922
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,040
on the box.
We can see that Mock Steads just

923
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,080
encompasses all of the above.
Yeah, mock Steads are basically

924
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,200
learning walks on steroids,
aren't they?

925
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,800
Where it's like we're going to
pretend to be Ofsted.

926
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,640
What?
The thing we all agree is awful.

927
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,120
You're going to give me an extra
1?

928
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,160
Are you joking?
It's practise, practise.

929
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,440
I don't.
I don't want them to come.

930
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,440
Model.
Yeah.

931
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:07,720
Any Simpsons references out
there?

932
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:10,400
We're gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna
very quickly, I'm gonna lean in

933
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,840
some Simpsons references, OK.
And then, all right, just in the

934
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,200
future as well.
And if you see them, give me a

935
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,000
message.
We do love the So They Go model.

936
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:17,800
Hopefully people love The
Simpsons in general.

937
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,320
They have no idea.
Last one, obviously, obviously

938
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,440
other than observations we've
got more about is that people

939
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,000
progress meetings now what do
you think about that?

940
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,880
Just quick discussion.
Yeah, people progress meetings

941
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,200
for anyone not listening or
anyone not listening, anyone not

942
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:35,200
in school such like a teacher
phrase, anyone not listening

943
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,920
won't be knowing something here.
If anyone not listening or

944
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,160
listening who doesn't know what
people progress meetings are, it

945
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,760
is when a team or you will get
together with someone with SRT

946
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,320
and just look through the data
and literally look at the

947
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,680
progress children are making and
and discuss the children.

948
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,320
That's basically what a people
progress meeting is.

949
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,280
So do you think they're a good
way of keeping teachers

950
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:59,680
accountable?
No, I don't think they're a good

951
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:00,960
way of keeping teachers
accountable.

952
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:04,440
I think they're a really good
thing to be aware of and to

953
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,280
know.
And as a professional, you might

954
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,320
think, oh, cool, I'm going to
focus on some of these children

955
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,000
because based on where they were
in key stage 1, they're lacking

956
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,960
behind a bit and need to make
sure their progress is good.

957
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:15,760
You want your child's progress
to be good.

958
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,440
Yeah.
But in terms of in terms of

959
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,360
keeping teachers accountable,
it's really easy in a pupil

960
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,520
progress meeting to fall into so
many traps where it's completely

961
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,800
pointless.
And, and I've seen this before

962
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,120
where people SLT, for example,
would, would even say, oh, we

963
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,960
know it's pointless, but, and
it'll be like, you know, you're

964
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,320
like, OK, for example, let's
just say one year we had a story

965
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,720
from someone messaged us saying
SAT's data was, was, was bad.

966
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,600
And they got a bit of bit of
heat for it.

967
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,440
Knowing though, through pupil
progress meetings, knowing that

968
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,320
these children were below
average for the year group, for

969
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,720
the year group in the whole
country, right.

970
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,200
So already understanding that.
The cohort was.

971
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,480
Already the cohort was lower.
So even with making good

972
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,000
progress, it would be completely
acceptable.

973
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,680
Obviously that's how averages
work.

974
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,360
By the way, half of the schools
in the country have lower than

975
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,640
the average, OK.
It, it doesn't mean half are bad

976
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,800
because no matter what we do,
they're going to be half the

977
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,520
country who are below average.
That's the nature of an average.

978
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,080
So simply saying these are below
average is not acceptable to

979
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,160
judge someone on or say that's
bad.

980
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,720
So you already knew these
children were going to be lower.

981
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,160
They came through lower.
The progress was excellent and

982
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,720
then getting heat from progress
meetings saying oh, they were

983
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:26,520
low though, so we need to change
something next year.

984
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,960
So we are going to change
something next year.

985
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,320
We're going to change the cohort
who are on average better so it,

986
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,400
it swings and roundabouts.
I, I don't think they keep

987
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,080
teachers accountable very well.
No, I think they can help your

988
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,600
staff and SLT understand where
the target might be or where

989
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:45,680
children are.
I think they're really.

990
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,600
Useful so basically I'm going to
try and summarise what you said

991
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,080
what they they can become kind
of meaningless and not very good

992
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,880
at doing doing doing their role
when you start making

993
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,600
comparisons that don't really
mean much like comparing with

994
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,560
previous cohorts pointless
comparing with other classes

995
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,120
almost on a level is generally
quite pointless because that all

996
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,280
children have different
baseline.

997
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,480
The only thing that is important
like you said and I do agree is

998
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,080
actually monitoring progress
because most children do make us

999
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,360
a fairly predictable trajectory
of progress, right.

1000
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,080
And if you look at key stage one
data or if there is any because

1001
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:14,880
that's.
Obviously changing.

1002
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,920
Well, there's not at the.
Minute yeah, or you just look at

1003
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,640
data in the past and you
generally can find outliers and

1004
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,560
then you can start thinking OK,
what's happening with this child

1005
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,520
like is some is it something
external?

1006
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,080
Is it something we're missing?
And then I think those are

1007
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,400
really, really useful but it
kind of has nothing to do with

1008
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:29,760
teacher keeping teachers
accountable, does it?

1009
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,600
It's just doing the job
collectively, like it's just

1010
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,600
doing the job properly.
Yeah, so it's a weird one.

1011
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,800
That's exactly it.
It's part of doing the job well,

1012
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,480
but it's not necessarily
actually going to hold people

1013
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:40,920
accountable.
It's, you know, a teacher

1014
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,640
shouldn't come out.
People progress meeting

1015
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,800
thinking, oh, I got I got
targeted a bit then because of

1016
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,720
my data.
Yeah, it's like, well, OK.

1017
00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:50,440
Have SLT fostered an environment
where they can come and see

1018
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,360
what's going on in the lessons
constantly throughout the year?

1019
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,800
Have they done nothing all year
and then at the end of the year

1020
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,080
gone all mass data bad.
What did you do?

1021
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,600
Sorry, did we not have we not
all have the whole year like

1022
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:03,240
like what we doing doing this at
this point?

1023
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:05,680
Yeah, I guess the accountability
comes in once you've identified

1024
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,840
those things, then checking up
later a couple of months ago,

1025
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,360
OK, we all identified this thing
and we all said that we need to

1026
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,560
do this.
Did that happen?

1027
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:12,760
That's where it counts, where
they didn't come.

1028
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,800
In and then it can even be one
of two things either it did

1029
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,600
happen awesome or it didn't
happen and if it didn't happen

1030
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:18,880
you go well what did you have in
place?

1031
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,560
We did loads actually.
So do you know what?

1032
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,760
These kids weren't going to move
because you did loads already or

1033
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,200
you did nothing and you think we
should have done something and

1034
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,680
it's OK, It is OK to call
teachers out who are not doing

1035
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,040
their job.
And I think that's that's

1036
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,920
important to say and.
Again, what you keep saying

1037
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,960
we'll come to the end of this is
like we know we keep, we

1038
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,240
teachers have to be held
accountable obviously in some

1039
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:36,720
aspects.
How do we do it?

1040
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,560
I don't think it's using all of
the tick box exercises, or most

1041
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,040
of them anyway, that we just
talked about.

1042
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:44,160
Should we move on to talking
about observations?

1043
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,000
Because we really wanted to.
We were going to do this whole

1044
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,880
episode on observations and we
thought, no, we want to talk

1045
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,920
about other stuff as well.
Why Dylan, you put when you take

1046
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,840
over, but you put something on
threads about observations.

1047
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:53,960
Tell me more because I haven't.
Seen this.

1048
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,640
So this is simply I put a post
out there because I know every

1049
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,000
single teacher.
Like I said earlier, if you go

1050
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,960
up to them and say what's your
observation story, you will get

1051
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,480
an observation story from them.
A horrendous story of teachers

1052
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,040
being watched in a lesson.
So observations for context used

1053
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,880
to be, or at least for us used
to feel like a huge, huge part

1054
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,760
of the job that we're constantly
looming over you.

1055
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,320
If you're an ECT, for example,
you'll get an observation at

1056
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,160
least once a time because you're
a brand new teacher and you have

1057
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,160
a mentor come and watch you.
Or maybe a subject lead or an

1058
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,400
SLT will come and just you know,
the point is they they should be

1059
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,400
able to come and watch you.
Giving you feedback, helping you

1060
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,240
improve.
You're learning.

1061
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:31,240
Exactly that.
So observations are important.

1062
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:33,040
I don't, I don't want to get
away from that.

1063
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,560
Observations are really
important, but the way they were

1064
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,000
done, I mean, Mrs. Smith had it
right when she spoke on our

1065
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,320
podcast about knobservations.
I think, I think we're going to,

1066
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,200
we're going to use her time here
because there were just a bunch

1067
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,120
of knobservations where
essentially either ran by knobs

1068
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,560
or the feedback was knobbish.
OK, so it and it was just

1069
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,880
completely pointless.
And I, I put a thread out there

1070
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,760
and I said, teachers, what's
your most insane observation

1071
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,800
story?
And I, and I told one of mine,

1072
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,960
I've got a few, but I just told
one that I thought was quite

1073
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,040
vanilla, to be fair.
And a lot of people probably in

1074
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,600
this book.
Before start with yours.

1075
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,520
And then start with mine.
I want to share and then share

1076
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,040
some, but I want you to think if
you've got any as well.

1077
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,320
Yeah, I'll have a, I'll have a
think whilst we do.

1078
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,680
This So my observation story was
very simple.

1079
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,200
I was a couple of years in at
this point.

1080
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,000
I'd already had loads of
observations, loads of targets

1081
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,880
set.
This is in the era where

1082
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,120
observations were graded.
Yeah, OK.

1083
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:25,400
So that used to be a thing as
well, where someone would come

1084
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,840
in and be like, that was a
lesson on the cusp.

1085
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,960
Of good, yeah or outstanding.
You had the same off that labels

1086
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,080
exactly for you as a teacher.
So as a teacher again, you might

1087
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,360
know your colleague got
outstanding.

1088
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,360
Oh, you're an outstanding.
Someone else got on the cusp of

1089
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,760
outstanding or the cloak gonna
dangle that carrot there gonna

1090
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,040
try.
I require improvement.

1091
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:43,640
I require improvement or I'm
just good.

1092
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,000
Yeah, and it just created this
levels in the school is awful.

1093
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,320
But anyway, we're in that deep
in that era and the 90% of the

1094
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:51,720
feedback was what can you do
better?

1095
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:53,320
I was just what's your next
step?

1096
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,560
Like cool.
Yeah, no, yeah, the kids did

1097
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,080
what The kids did some good
learning by the way.

1098
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,240
Let's talk about all the things
that we need to change though.

1099
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,560
So it wasn't nice and and my
feedback, we got through the

1100
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:02,920
nice stuff.
It was a really good lesson.

1101
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,040
I remembered I put loads of time
into it because that was the

1102
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,800
culture about them.
It's a really good maths lesson

1103
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,320
about perimeter and area and the
link between them because I had

1104
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,840
the high set maths group in year
4.

1105
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,200
It was really nice for the
problem solving exploration got

1106
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,240
some feedback and we got to the
bit for development points and

1107
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:22,000
they said development points.
Now I couldn't think of any,

1108
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:23,840
couldn't think of any
development points.

1109
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,440
So here's fix the tie.
I didn't have any and I was

1110
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:33,160
like, oh wow, that's amazing.
I'm chuffed and I go, so I think

1111
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,800
I might have to come back and
see you again so we can get some

1112
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,560
development points.
I was like, oh, the worst

1113
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,000
outcome, but you want me to do
this whole thing again?

1114
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:42,400
Yeah.
Yeah.

1115
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,200
Just because obviously we need
development points.

1116
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:46,000
Yeah.
Yeah.

1117
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,800
So.
And I was just like, that could

1118
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:49,480
have ended there.
Yeah.

1119
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,480
And I remember being at the
point, it was early in my career

1120
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,280
and I was like, OK, no problem,
That's prepare and do another

1121
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,880
observation. 2 weeks.
How sad is that?

1122
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,440
Imagine just living life like
that in general and just not

1123
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,600
being satisfied with anything
despite being completely

1124
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,800
satisfied.
I'm completely satisfied with

1125
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,080
your performance.
But I've been brainwashed into

1126
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,280
thinking that everything can be
improved, which it can, I'm

1127
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,440
sure, because I didn't find it
in that moment.

1128
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,360
I need to come back and find it
another time rather than just

1129
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,560
being completely satisfied which
I.

1130
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,320
Am or just accepting the fact
that you can know everything can

1131
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,520
be improved, but there's a level
where it's absolutely fine and.

1132
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:20,480
Good.
You're doing your job to a

1133
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:21,640
really high standard.
Crack on.

1134
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,280
Thank you completely.
Yeah, that's mad.

1135
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,160
Well, that I've had the opposite
experience by the way.

1136
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:26,760
Just like a nice one.
Yeah, I want to hear your one.

1137
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,000
Then I'm going to tell you the
people.

1138
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,320
Well, just give you a nice one
then.

1139
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,400
I'll go to a -1 in the future.
But just exactly the same as

1140
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,320
you, right?
I've also had an observation in

1141
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,440
my career where the feedback at
the end of the day was

1142
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,160
literally, Oh yeah, it was
really good.

1143
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:40,760
Actually.
I couldn't.

1144
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,440
I didn't notice anything out of
place.

1145
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:43,840
There was nothing screaming at
me.

1146
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,320
I didn't really have any points
for development.

1147
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:46,200
It was just a really good
lesson.

1148
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,120
Cheers.
Walked off and that was that was

1149
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,920
in a corridor, genuinely the end
of the day from the head

1150
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,400
teacher.
And I was like, oh cool, that's

1151
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:53,760
nice.
But how did that make you feel

1152
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:54,560
it?
Made me feel great.

1153
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,040
I genuinely felt great for weeks
because I was like, oh, that's

1154
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:57,960
that's sick.
Trust.

1155
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:59,640
Yeah, he drives me.
Encouragement.

1156
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,000
More from it though.
Loyalty.

1157
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:02,360
Satisfaction.
Yeah.

1158
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,040
Satisfaction.
Yeah, I was satisfied.

1159
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,400
The head teacher was satisfied
and that was it.

1160
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,320
And then I carried on doing my
job thinking, oh, I'm doing my

1161
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:09,920
job to a good standard.
That's really, really nice to

1162
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,600
hear.
It didn't make me think, oh, I'm

1163
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,360
perfect now as I do nothing
wrong ever.

1164
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,040
It made me actually think, oh, I
want to continue doing that

1165
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:17,360
because that praise was nice and
I felt really good.

1166
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:18,840
I'm going to make sure all my
lessons are like a really high

1167
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,440
standard, you know?
Oh, so anyway, let's go to some.

1168
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,360
Let's go back to some.
OK, so there was a theme.

1169
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,840
There was a massive theme, and
it was essentially very similar

1170
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,240
to what I said, right?
There was a theme where people

1171
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,960
were just begging to put a
development point, right?

1172
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,400
And they just needed to do it.
So there was 1 here.

1173
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:41,400
This one, it not made me laugh,
but I just I just thought how on

1174
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,560
earth could this development
point, how could you actually

1175
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,840
have have done this?
I don't understand it.

1176
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,640
So I'm going to just find it
quickly.

1177
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:49,920
It's to do with differentiation.
Go.

1178
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,880
For it.
And chunk instructors.

1179
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,520
I've got loads here, so here.
Here's a good one.

1180
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,680
This one really made me laugh.
I was told I needed to chunk

1181
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,280
instructions to give short,
clear instructions because

1182
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,760
students weren't engaged.
The instruction I'd just given

1183
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,160
after having this feedback, copy
the sentence starter off the

1184
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,920
board.
How could I possibly break that

1185
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,520
down any further?
It's smart.

1186
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,640
So their instruction was copy
this off the board now, Oh, kids

1187
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,080
aren't engaged.
You need to chunk that down a

1188
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,080
bit.
What classic case of just I've

1189
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:22,760
seen something that I think is
not right.

1190
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,200
The kids aren't quite engaged.
Oh, what can I make up?

1191
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,800
I know this answer, chunking
things down is good to get kids

1192
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,680
engaged, but it was in the in
the context of they'd already

1193
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:32,720
done that.
And this was a theme I saw a lot

1194
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:37,000
of the time is almost people
running observations, desperate

1195
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,760
to find something.
'Cause I have to just playing

1196
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,600
the game.
Yeah, completely, but it would

1197
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,560
be the kind of thing where
someone else here, but again

1198
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,720
very similar head of department
asked me what grading I'd give

1199
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:49,960
myself.
So that's a classic one

1200
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:50,800
straight, wasn't that?
Yeah.

1201
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,360
What would you give yourself?
Firstly, yeah, we're in the era

1202
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,400
of grading.
Secondly, it's like, well, I

1203
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:00,320
don't know, So what would you
give yourself back in the area

1204
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,520
of grading?
And then said she couldn't think

1205
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,160
of any targets of improvement.
So you would have to come up

1206
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,920
with one yourself as the teacher
and write it on the form.

1207
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:12,880
You don't need to have an
improvement.

1208
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,960
Yeah, but every single lamp that
was now I'd laugh it off.

1209
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:16,960
I'd be right.
OK, what would you say?

1210
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:19,480
I'd let you write down and
continue being excellent where

1211
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,560
I, where I need no improvement
points, just something

1212
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:22,920
controlled.
I'd absolutely do that because

1213
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,000
I've had anything to say about
did you just come in and see a

1214
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,800
really good lesson?
Because if you did, and you'll

1215
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,760
get annoyed at me now about this
and what you're doing like you

1216
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,560
should just.
I'm clearly doing the job to a

1217
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,880
high standard sharp.
Right one here, I've got 1.

1218
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,720
I was told that during the same
lesson I was simultaneously too

1219
00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:42,000
strict, but then also later on
in my feedbook to motherhood and

1220
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,840
apple pie.
The deputy head who observed me

1221
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,320
knew nothing about SCN choose
choose to sit on a massive

1222
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,920
stack, which chose to sit on a
massive stack of chairs and

1223
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,320
checked his emails throughout my
lesson.

1224
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,600
Just genuinely imagine that when
there's like 4 chairs and

1225
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,080
they're leaning a bit forward
because they all lean.

1226
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,720
On the laptop typing stuff, I'm
checking emails, not watching

1227
00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:02,080
the lesson whatsoever and this
person got in trouble for

1228
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,160
calling him a box too.
Oh no, I love this.

1229
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:07,480
Whoever this person is, I love
them.

1230
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,840
And she's.
Finished off by saying I was

1231
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:11,840
being polite.
I was like, think of what you

1232
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,320
could have thought of instead.
Absolutely crap that's so.

1233
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,040
Funny.
That's brilliant.

1234
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:16,800
I don't have much to say really
other than it's just hilarious.

1235
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,720
Classic hypocrisy.
But if you hadn't, if you've not

1236
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:21,960
had it before, where someone's
observing your lesson and it,

1237
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,880
they've clearly just been pushed
into this to do it last minute

1238
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:26,200
and they don't really know what
they're talking about.

1239
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:27,920
Dave, you've got to go do the
observation.

1240
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,600
Oh, no.
Is it me?

1241
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:30,360
It was you.
No.

1242
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:31,520
What?
What am I observing?

1243
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,760
German.
I don't speak German.

1244
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:36,720
Thank you Tea as well.
It's an ECT.

1245
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,840
Okay, I better think of seven
things to tell.

1246
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,360
So there's one here, right?
German lessons.

1247
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,320
This is obviously I think in a
secondary school, maybe it's in

1248
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,240
primary school.
No secondary school top set year

1249
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,880
10 really good at German.
They set for their languages

1250
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:50,520
held mostly in German, obviously
because it's by a language

1251
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,920
specialist and they're top set.
Students were doing extended

1252
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,200
writing in German, total
concentration.

1253
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,200
You could see their brains
whirring around and smoking.

1254
00:48:57,720 --> 00:48:59,680
Deputy head was watching as an
observation.

1255
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,280
He didn't speak German and his
voters on the lesson was as

1256
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,840
boring.
That's boring.

1257
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:07,960
You don't speak German.
Don't even know what they said.

1258
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,400
How can you?
I might as well.

1259
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,920
I tell you what, if I went and
watched the German lesson, I'd

1260
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,320
find it boring as well because I
also don't speak German.

1261
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,120
Imagine watching a Japanese film
with no subtitles and at the end

1262
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:21,800
being like that's rubbish.
Plot was rubbish.

1263
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,520
I didn't know what was going on,
so that must be an awful film.

1264
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,480
No, this was Parasite won an
Oscar.

1265
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:28,280
Parasite.
Great film.

1266
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,120
Actually, no very good film.
It's a tricky one thing I feel

1267
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,040
like is there an element of
would you be able to tell if a

1268
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,800
lesson was boring just by like
body like reactions of the

1269
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,800
children you might have?
A hint also, if a lesson was

1270
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,880
boring, do you think it's
suitable for a deputy head to go

1271
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:43,000
boring?
Yeah, no.

1272
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,080
And also, I don't know, just
look at look at the outcomes

1273
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,400
maybe like it's just, yeah, it's
the lowest down on the list and

1274
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:49,680
all the kids are working hard
and cracking on.

1275
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,600
It's like, well, it's obviously
not boring enough because

1276
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,960
they're doing the work, so.
So a couple of points I want to

1277
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:59,360
make and I'll link onto a story.
Here is observations can suck

1278
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:01,720
when there are just vendettas in
school.

1279
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,760
So there everyone knows,
especially when you've got a

1280
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,840
toxic head.
There are some people who are

1281
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,560
targeted and they have a target
on their back.

1282
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,680
And, and one of the best ways
that used to have not best, but

1283
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,480
one of the most effective ways
you could put a target on

1284
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,080
someone's back, especially back
then was through observations

1285
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,880
completely undermining staff
who've been doing it for 30-40

1286
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,720
years.
Oh, they're quite expensive now,

1287
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:24,800
so let's just make them feel
awful.

1288
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,920
I have seen more than once in my
career a teacher who has they

1289
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,720
dedicated their life to the
career right going out in the

1290
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:35,800
worst possible way at the end of
their career because they just

1291
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,760
don't fit the bill anymore.
Things change and maybe they're

1292
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,640
just not as efficient anymore.
They're older and and genuine.

1293
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,960
There might just be real reasons
why it's just maybe tricky for

1294
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:44,880
them.
They're not as maybe they're not

1295
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,960
as that peak performance like
they were ten years ago.

1296
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:48,720
Who cares?
Right there at the end of their

1297
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:50,520
career, they've dedicated their
life to it and they've.

1298
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,240
And they're good in a different
way.

1299
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:53,120
Yeah, they're good a different
way.

1300
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,160
There's so much experience, but
they've been forced out through

1301
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,040
this system of you can't just
fire teachers.

1302
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,880
So I'll tell you what we'll do.
We'll we'll make them have a

1303
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,480
mental breakdown or we'll make
them cry.

1304
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,800
We'll make we'll just we'll just
make their life hell yeah.

1305
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,560
Through horrible observations
and anything we can do that's

1306
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,640
within our realms and then
they'll just leave and we'll get

1307
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,000
an ECT in Yeah, 100% cheaper.
I've seen that happen.

1308
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,040
I've.
Seen it happen multiple times

1309
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,040
yeah, it's horrible.
It's horrendous.

1310
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:16,400
I've.
Heard of it in loads of schools

1311
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:17,760
as.
Well, yeah, yeah, it's horrible.

1312
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,160
And and it's it's disgusting
because it's how you treat

1313
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:22,880
people.
It's as simple as that.

1314
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:24,360
Like it doesn't matter.
And you know what?

1315
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,440
If you go in in an observation
and it's genuinely not good

1316
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,320
enough, you do have to breach
that.

1317
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,120
And that's hard.
That's hard for SLT to do.

1318
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,720
I understand that it's not nice
to tell someone that lesson

1319
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:35,560
wasn't good.
And I've seen lessons before

1320
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,560
that are amazing.
And as mastery, I've seen

1321
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,360
lessons before and I've been
like, do you know what?

1322
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,160
That wasn't great that there are
there are five different ways

1323
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:44,000
that could have been done
better.

1324
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,880
You didn't quite do this, but do
you know, you just have to read

1325
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,960
the room.
OK, So in that situation, for

1326
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,680
example, this SLT who you know,
we've seen before who attack

1327
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:59,480
people knowing how that's going
to affect the person, IE they're

1328
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,360
going to be crying, they're
going to feel awful, they're

1329
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,840
going to go to go to bed that
evening thinking they're a

1330
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,280
terrible teacher by the way,
have to come in tomorrow and

1331
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:11,360
teach again in your school so
that the class they've got, is

1332
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,240
that an effective way of feed
like like just tailor it to

1333
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:14,720
them?
No, it's.

1334
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,040
Effective way of getting rid of
them, that is it, yeah, it's the

1335
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,360
complete that was really.
That was it.

1336
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,600
But it's the complete opposite
of how we teach teachers to

1337
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:21,680
teach children.
Yeah.

1338
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:22,800
So we take everyone into
account.

1339
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,040
Everyone's different.
You, you can, I can say to a

1340
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:26,960
kid, make handwriting bigger.
And.

1341
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,560
Oh, yeah, sorry.
And I know for a fact there's a

1342
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:30,880
girl I taught a couple of years
ago.

1343
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,320
Who have I said that to?
She really take that to heart.

1344
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:34,440
Yeah, she loves her right?
In trouble.

1345
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,120
So I can't just say to her.
Make Hamrites bigger.

1346
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,960
You know, that teacher that's
been here for 25 years, dedicate

1347
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:39,560
their whole life to this school
and I've done unbelievable

1348
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,400
amounts of work for them.
You know, have they been

1349
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,960
absolutely amazing for 24 of
those years?

1350
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:44,160
And we're a bit worried about
them this year.

1351
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,880
Should we A, just go to them and
and really praise them for their

1352
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,560
experience and all the things
they are amazing at and just

1353
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,240
maybe help them with the stuff
they're struggling with, but

1354
00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:53,160
maybe there's too much change
and they're just not keeping up

1355
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,760
with it.
Or B just go in there and make

1356
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,560
them feel like absolute crap and
get rid of them so we can.

1357
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,280
Get someone new.
Which one saves me 20 grand a

1358
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,240
year?
Do we say bye to them?

1359
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:02,160
No.
No.

1360
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:03,320
For some.
Just for some.

1361
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:04,400
Yeah.
Mental breakdown about it.

1362
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:05,240
Yeah.
Yeah.

1363
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:06,720
That's disgusting.
Should we do again next year?

1364
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:07,560
Yeah.
Should.

1365
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:09,280
We do it until we don't have
any.

1366
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,000
Experience, if you work and if
you work in a school, you know,

1367
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,920
we are just like making up
schools here.

1368
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,920
But if you work in schools that
are like that, yeah, it's

1369
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:17,400
horrendous.
And I'm sorry that you have to

1370
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,560
experience it and you know.
And you might think we're being

1371
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:20,360
flippant.
We're not.

1372
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,240
This is just how we cope with
seeing horrendous stuff.

1373
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:25,280
And we've got friends who, you
know, went through similar

1374
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:26,160
stuff.
Yeah, exactly.

1375
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,280
I've known people, I've got
friends, older teachers who

1376
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,880
literally finished their careers
like that, and they've ranted to

1377
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:32,200
me about it.
And I just think that's just

1378
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,320
mad.
It's just disgusting.

1379
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,600
And we're here to call it out.
We start this podcast to not be

1380
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,280
afraid of those kind of people,
actually to kind of almost do

1381
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,320
our our younger sales a bit of
justice where we were just, we

1382
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,040
just absolutely wouldn't have
questioned these sort of things,

1383
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:44,640
wouldn't say anything about it
and be like, yeah, we're calling

1384
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:45,400
it out.
It's rubbish.

1385
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,360
It needs to change.
And if you don't think so, come

1386
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,360
and argue with us about it.
But they they have power as

1387
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,080
well.
And and there's last story here.

1388
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,000
Maybe I said there's loads.
So anyone go to our threads.

1389
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,760
It's linked to our Instagram at
teach seek repeat podcast.

1390
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:56,920
And then you can see all the
replies.

1391
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,360
There's so many.
This one is the ultimate version

1392
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,920
though of of just that vendetta.
Almost.

1393
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,000
I had a head who hated me with a
passion who was determined to

1394
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,040
fail me on my lesson
observations at every

1395
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,000
opportunity.
He opted to fail me based on

1396
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,720
zero planning gone into the
lesson.

1397
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:14,320
Now at this point you might
think OK well this is 1 sided.

1398
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,840
Maybe, maybe this person wasn't
necessarily that good and the

1399
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,080
and the head was just being
falling out.

1400
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,520
I challenged this by pointing
out that I'd literally handed in

1401
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:26,760
my Lesson plan for the lesson
that he observed me in.

1402
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,480
So they couldn't possibly be 0
planning.

1403
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,440
That sums up that sums up the
power people.

1404
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,800
They can just say stuff.
So no, no planning.

1405
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,600
Sorry, I you might not have
liked it, but there was

1406
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:39,560
planning.
But now.

1407
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:41,640
Oh, but do you know what?
Do you know what's easier for me

1408
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:42,560
to do?
It's easy for me to say there

1409
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,520
was no planning and blame you
than it is to look at the

1410
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,760
planning I don't like and help
you into how to improve it.

1411
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,040
Yeah.
So I'm gonna take the easy way

1412
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:49,320
out, which is just to make you
feel bad.

1413
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,080
Put it all in, you ha ha, ha.
Do it better next.

1414
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,080
Time a nice evidence folder I'm
gonna get rid of you next year

1415
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,880
yeah building it up yeah
whatever.

1416
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,040
Horrible.
Let's move on from threads like

1417
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:58,280
that, Dylan said go and check
out the others.

1418
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,000
I probably will as well because
I haven't seen this.

1419
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,840
I was saving myself for this
episode so.

1420
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:03,080
Do you have any stories?
Yeah.

1421
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:04,520
Just one quick one that comes to
mind.

1422
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,000
Just one.
I've told you this before.

1423
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,200
I'm going to tell everyone else.
Oh, I know.

1424
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:09,480
You already know that you're
going to go.

1425
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,600
It's like my go to story of like
where I'm like, I come up with

1426
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,960
observation miffed.
And then what on earth is this

1427
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,440
process, right?
I Once Upon a time did a lesson,

1428
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,760
an English lesson got observed
by a head teacher.

1429
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,280
It wasn't even our head teacher
of someone else who came into

1430
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,160
the school to observe.
I was doing it on similes and

1431
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,560
metaphors.
And I genuinely like the biggest

1432
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:27,800
bits of feedback.
There was a couple of things

1433
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,240
that went wrong with it.
I'm going to focus on one of

1434
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:30,280
them.
The biggest bit of feedback in

1435
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,680
that lesson was at one point in
the lesson, I decided to spend

1436
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,200
60 seconds, I reckon, getting
the kids to write down the

1437
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,560
definition of a simile and write
down the definition of metaphor

1438
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:41,680
and put like a little bubble
around it.

1439
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,640
Because I, I believe there is
power sometimes in getting

1440
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,960
children to write things down
themselves and just rather than

1441
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,440
like giving them a sheet that
says it that they can ignore and

1442
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,600
not process.
It's like I'm forcing you for 60

1443
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,640
seconds basically to process
this information as much as I

1444
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:55,080
possibly can.
Is there more?

1445
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:56,640
Are there more effective ways?
Of course there are.

1446
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,360
But in that moment I thought 60
seconds, this is worth it

1447
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,080
because I know I knew my set.
Of course they do that and put a

1448
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,720
little bubble around it.
They'll take pride in it and

1449
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:05,920
then they might remember what
these things are and the

1450
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,200
feedback that was, I wasted too
much time in that lesson.

1451
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,000
What I could have done was put
the definitions on a sticker and

1452
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:13,400
they could have stuck it in that
book instead.

1453
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:16,760
And it was.
And the point being here I what,

1454
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,280
that wasn't like 1 little
flippant comment.

1455
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,080
That was a huge piece of
feedback that stopped me from

1456
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,080
being like, the next grading up
was you wasted time.

1457
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:25,880
There are moments that lets me
wasted time and this is the

1458
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,120
worst one.
So it was 60 seconds.

1459
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,800
There was value in doing the
thing that I was doing and we

1460
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,320
can argue about that.
Maybe you know, maybe I'm wrong

1461
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,920
about that, but I felt there was
value in doing that thing.

1462
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,440
It's 60 seconds.
Like what are you talking about?

1463
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,640
As if kids go, oh we could have
put it on a sticker, could have

1464
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:42,520
pre prepared that straight in
the book.

1465
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:44,200
They could have done half a
sentence more by the time.

1466
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,760
So that that to me that that
rings in my head all the time of

1467
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:52,720
like, what was that time here?
I'm so glad we're out of that

1468
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:55,480
era.
Well, I think what that

1469
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,320
summarises is the final point I
want to make about observations

1470
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,320
is it's all subjective.
Yeah, it is smart.

1471
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,960
There is, there are so many ways
to effectively teach metaphors.

1472
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:07,800
There are.
So there are so many ways to

1473
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,160
effectively teach basically any,
any objective that you can think

1474
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,120
of.
And when you're doing

1475
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,440
observations, you have to fit
the school ethos.

1476
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,520
Sure, maybe there's a way that
we do stuff in our school, sure.

1477
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,240
But you know what?
If you have written down in your

1478
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,520
plan, by the way, which you have
to do for this, which is we can

1479
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,840
have another conversation about
that, that you're gonna get the

1480
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,360
children to write this down.
Because I've thought it through

1481
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,920
and I've made the decision as
professional that I think this

1482
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:33,680
is gonna help them to remember
it.

1483
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,200
You might be wrong.
Yeah, Yeah, you might be.

1484
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,280
But do you know what?
So what?

1485
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,400
We make mistakes all the time.
That lesson is not bad.

1486
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:41,080
I tell you what.
Yeah.

1487
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,000
It didn't ruin your lesson if it
was a 20 minute chunk that was

1488
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,640
totally pointless.
Can you do bubble writing and

1489
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,400
make it and colour in every part
of the letter and make metaphor

1490
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:50,520
look really cool and like, make
it?

1491
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:51,960
Yeah, that's.
A different discussion, but the

1492
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,320
fact that it was 60 seconds, an
insignificant amount of time in

1493
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:55,680
that lesson that I felt was
used.

1494
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,280
What a stupid argument.
What sat there arguing arguing

1495
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,720
for the TV in my time after
school about this using Oh.

1496
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,480
And and it's OK for them because
once they finished, they got

1497
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:04,680
home, you've still got your
market to do.

1498
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:05,960
It, yeah.
And then I've got to replan this

1499
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,320
lesson or something like that.
Yeah, anyway, right, we've done

1500
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:08,960
it again.
We've got.

1501
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,240
No, that's fine.
We're about an hour is episode,

1502
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:12,440
right?
Like it's okay.

1503
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,720
We're an hour in though.
So I think we should move on to

1504
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,880
the last chunk of this, which is
okay, what do we do then?

1505
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,640
Because we are not sitting here
saying like, yeah, get rid of

1506
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,160
all accountability.
Just trust teachers.

1507
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,960
I don't think just trust and
absolutely 0 accountability on

1508
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:30,960
any level.
I don't think that's actually a

1509
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:32,480
good system.
It's actively a bad.

1510
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,600
System, it's actively, yeah, you
know, at the end of the day,

1511
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,120
it's our kids education.
It's a very important job in

1512
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:38,320
society.
There needs to be some

1513
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,080
accountability.
So what is it then, Dylan?

1514
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,200
If it's not, if we don't like
observations very much and we

1515
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,080
don't like learning walks and we
don't like tick box exercises

1516
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:47,920
where they come up, what what do
we like then?

1517
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,400
Yeah, well, let's split it into
two things.

1518
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,760
Things we can just get in the
bin and things that are needed

1519
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:54,560
but are done wrong in a lot of
places, you're in the bin, I'm

1520
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:55,840
in the bin.
Things aren't going to bin.

1521
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:57,160
Tick box stuff.
Just get in the bin.

1522
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,480
Just get in the bin.
If you're going round looking at

1523
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:00,840
books as a book looks, get in
the bin.

1524
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,160
If you're going round looking at
books and ticking a box saying

1525
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,040
let me count how many peer
assessments there were in the

1526
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,320
last 10 days, get in the bin.
That there's there's no way of

1527
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:09,600
doing that, which is suddenly
useful.

1528
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,000
Get in the bin.
Just get in the bin.

1529
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,440
Doesn't matter.
Is there any way you could look

1530
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,200
at a book individually as an
assessment tool?

1531
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,400
Is there any way you could look
at a book and there be an

1532
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:18,840
exercise that is actually useful
for?

1533
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,400
Keeping yeah, I think checking
what you've implemented recently

1534
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,680
very clearly, if there's a
reason why, like we've said,

1535
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,000
when you justified your
metaphors and your similes and

1536
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,440
stuff works both ways.
I'm math lead and I've said

1537
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,080
okay, I'm math lead.
I've justified why we're gonna

1538
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:34,520
do this change.
We've all agreed on it in a

1539
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:36,320
staff meeting.
I can go and check that that's

1540
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,080
been implemented, Sure.
And then chase it up if it

1541
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,360
hasn't and just ask why and and
go from there.

1542
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,560
And things like feedback.
I feel like if you're looking at

1543
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,800
a book, the only thing that's
useful to me is, okay, I just

1544
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:46,640
wanna, I wanna find a kid who
didn't get something.

1545
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,000
Yes, I wanna see in that book.
I just, I just wanna see.

1546
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,920
Yeah, and even this is like
flawed, right?

1547
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,920
I just wanna see based on our
feedback policy of the school,

1548
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,040
whatever that is, did the
teacher follow that?

1549
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:59,160
And and if not, is it because
they gave verbal feedback or

1550
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:00,560
whatever?
Do they need to write verbal

1551
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:02,040
feedback in that book?
Absolutely not.

1552
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,760
I hate that.
Just go and talk to the teacher.

1553
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:05,440
But I just that's all I've been
looking at.

1554
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,480
Is our marking policy being
implemented, implemented to help

1555
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,160
kids?
Not is it being implemented tick

1556
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,320
box, yes or no?
Is it helping children?

1557
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:14,480
That's what I actually want to
see.

1558
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,800
So tick boxes, then Bing Bing.
But but active, you know,

1559
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,640
encouragement, help and and
checking to see if stuff's being

1560
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,040
done fine.
And it's just the way you do

1561
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:24,680
stuff after I think as well as
it makes a difference.

1562
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,160
So yeah, I think, I think that's
fine.

1563
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,280
They can get a bin.
But there are some things we

1564
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,800
should just we should just keep.
OK, So for example, drop

1565
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,120
insurance.
It's kind of in with

1566
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,320
observations for me.
OK, having a formal observation,

1567
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:41,320
fine.
Don't grade it.

1568
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,880
Obviously don't grade it at all.
But a formal observation to me

1569
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,240
is when they say, OK, next week
we're going to come and watch

1570
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:48,680
you do maths.
Yeah, OK.

1571
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:50,880
That to me is fine.
That's acceptable for someone to

1572
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:52,120
say.
You might have an agree, might

1573
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:54,360
have a argument of someone who
says no, no, no, no formal

1574
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,000
observations whatsoever.
OK.

1575
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,680
But I think that's fine to do.
I think it's OK if you've

1576
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,400
fostered that environment of
help and feedback.

1577
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:02,400
Yeah, as long as the culture is
right.

1578
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:04,920
The culture is right then, then
observations absolutely fine.

1579
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:06,240
OK, if you were a head teacher,
would you do it though?

1580
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:07,920
Yeah, I would do it and I think
I would do it.

1581
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,240
And the reason I do it is
because what I'd also do

1582
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:13,480
alongside that is I wouldn't let
observations be the only thing

1583
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,440
that what the kind of the way I
see the teacher is hanging on.

1584
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:19,040
Yeah, because it turned into
formal observations where, gosh,

1585
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,080
this is my chance.
This is this is when my head

1586
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:22,800
teacher is in my room.
This is my chance to show what I

1587
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:26,000
do every single day.
And it turned into observations

1588
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,120
were put in a pedestal and you
put hours and hours into that

1589
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:29,240
lesson.
And then do you know what?

1590
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,480
The rest of that week you do
crappy lessons because you'd

1591
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,360
have to spend 10 minutes putting
them together because you don't

1592
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:35,800
have time.
What I think fosters a really

1593
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,760
good environment is as leaders
is when you can walk through a

1594
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,280
lesson and be in a lesson at any
point.

1595
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,720
And I think little and often is
really powerful, definitely.

1596
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,720
So I prefer it.
If I was an SLT member, I would

1597
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:49,960
be pretty much every day.
I'd.

1598
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:51,520
I'd go as far to saying this
every day.

1599
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,120
I'd be disappointed if I wasn't
in in a classroom every day.

1600
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,000
Yeah.
Or at least once or, you know,

1601
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,640
twice or three times a week.
And not to be in there and

1602
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,960
judge, but to see the kids more
than anything.

1603
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:01,960
Yeah.
Be there for them.

1604
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:02,440
Have a look.
So.

1605
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,040
Oh, what are you doing today?
Show me.

1606
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:04,880
OK.
Do something.

1607
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,080
Continue fostering that culture
to your teachers of.

1608
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:08,560
I'm friendly, by the way.
Exactly.

1609
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:09,880
I will help you.
Yeah.

1610
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,480
I'm not here to just make you
feel like.

1611
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,840
And there'll be numerous
occasions, more than half of the

1612
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,680
time in the classroom where I'd
be in the classroom, say good

1613
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,160
morning to the teacher.
Hey, how you doing?

1614
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:20,440
And then not say anything.
To them ever again because I'm

1615
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,320
not there to judge them.
I'd be in the classroom to show

1616
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,960
my face as leaders to the
children to show I can help them

1617
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,360
with their learning and to show
the teacher that I care about.

1618
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,600
OK, let's say you do that right
and you notice something you do

1619
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,600
actually notice something that
you think is like critically

1620
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:34,280
bad.
You think, oh, this is this

1621
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,720
teacher is not following this
really really, really important

1622
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,240
policy we've all agreed on as a
school, right.

1623
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:39,960
What would you do You're in the
moment you're in there.

1624
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:41,120
I don't know.
After I think it's like.

1625
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:43,520
The kids, the kids are all
writing that book the wrong way

1626
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:46,120
upside down and they're not
recording any of their main task

1627
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:47,240
learning.
They're always doing on white

1628
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:48,640
boards every single day.
There's nothing in their books.

1629
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:50,360
Yeah, what do you do?
So that's like a long term thing

1630
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:51,880
if it's like every single day in
their books and stuff.

1631
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:54,360
But notice that in the moment,
if they're working on their

1632
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,200
books and they're still doing
work, you'd have to judge if

1633
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:57,400
it's vital for the children
right now.

1634
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:58,960
If it's a safety issue, you stop
straight away.

1635
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,120
If it's an issue where it's like
it's just not what we do here,

1636
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,040
but the kids could be justified
in learning.

1637
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:05,960
Don't interrupt it.
No, don't stop it.

1638
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,240
Don't don't make the teacher
feel that way.

1639
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,480
Don't even take them to one side
and quietly do it because the

1640
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:11,520
kids, that's the thing where put
your hand up, but.

1641
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:15,000
Or miss are we, are we gonna
underline our dates more today?

1642
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,920
Are we gonna do that like that?
Passive, I hate that yeah, don't

1643
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:20,960
do that.
Just wait unless it's a safety

1644
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:22,600
thing.
Just wait and build that fast.

1645
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:26,080
And you know what we've said a
million times before build that

1646
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,800
ability because do you know how
you can easily tell someone to

1647
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,560
improve is if you've told them
10 times how good they are or

1648
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:33,120
something.
Yeah.

1649
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,280
So if if through doing this you
go and you go and you just say

1650
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,800
I've had this before from a head
I really respect my current

1651
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,640
head.
I'll just say who's who's, you

1652
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,440
know, just said to me off the
cuff randomly.

1653
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:48,120
I really appreciate that or
you're such, such a good way of

1654
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:49,400
the kids.
The way you spoke to the kids

1655
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,440
today, it was lovely or.
I'd had one the deputy had just

1656
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,200
said to me before I would love
my kids to have been in your

1657
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:56,440
class.
That's such a nice you know

1658
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,040
what, what a thing to say to
someone and and but is it not

1659
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:00,680
and that's not followed up
immediately with and I want

1660
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:02,760
something.
No, no, it was just like, thank

1661
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:08,600
you, like and got done, finished
and you know, that is enough to

1662
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,400
make someone feel good.
And you know what, if that

1663
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,720
deputy came out to me and said,
are you doing the, are you

1664
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:15,240
following the spelling scheme?
Because I don't.

1665
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,280
I came in and you were doing
something different.

1666
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,840
I'd be really confident.
And you're saying, hey, yeah,

1667
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,560
but I noticed my kids couldn't
spell Anne and that's not the

1668
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,320
spending scheme.
So I just did a little thing or

1669
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,080
I'd say, do you want, do you
know what?

1670
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:28,880
I actually haven't.
What is it?

1671
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:31,800
But then I but then I feel like
Tim, I'm letting him down

1672
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:32,840
almost.
Yeah, because you built the

1673
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:34,280
respect.
Built the respect and know he

1674
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,400
trust me and it is just
something where you can take

1675
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:38,120
that on board easily.
You know what with just think

1676
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,200
about us.
I know you obviously very well,

1677
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,040
right?
And yeah, yeah, you know pretty

1678
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:43,080
well.
I know you better than you know

1679
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,840
me right now.
Observations I, I genuinely

1680
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,160
don't think, if I think if
you're a head teacher, I reckon

1681
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,120
within one year you would scrap
them completely.

1682
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,040
Just knowing you and how your
brain works.

1683
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,640
I reckon you do it thinking this
is useful because I know even

1684
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:56,440
when we interview tutors,
because we've been doing that

1685
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:57,440
recently.
By the way, we're, we're, you

1686
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,240
know, for our tutoring company,
you might have listened to our

1687
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,040
last episode.
At the moment we're, we're,

1688
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:02,640
we're taking applicants for new
tutors.

1689
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:05,200
Anyway, I know that when we've
interviewed tutors over the last

1690
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,720
couple of years, right?
We have started by thinking we

1691
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,720
need them to do like a, a
lesson.

1692
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:12,480
We need to watch them do a
lesson online and whatever.

1693
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,680
And we've very much we've over
the time we've, we've realised

1694
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:17,600
that hang on, we don't need to
do that bit.

1695
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:18,560
We just need to get to know
them.

1696
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:20,680
We need to know their experience
and then we need to, once they

1697
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:22,640
start choosing, we can drop in a
couple of times and just check.

1698
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,800
And I feel like if you're a head
teacher, you would absolutely go

1699
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,040
down the route of, oh, I don't
need to do less observations.

1700
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,680
I just need to get to know my
teachers really, really well,

1701
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,560
drop into their lessons all the
time, put in place like little

1702
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,760
bits of feedback as and when and
and I will know exactly how well

1703
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:39,840
my teachers are teaching without
having without having to

1704
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:41,640
observed.
And I reckon that is what you'd

1705
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:42,880
do.
Yeah, I think, I think I think

1706
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,320
that that is the that's almost a
pathway, isn't it?

1707
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:46,800
That that's where it would lead
to.

1708
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,120
I still think, you know, if I
got a headship, a lot of

1709
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,400
headship, but if I got a
headship, I think I'd be like,

1710
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:52,200
cool.
Well, I am.

1711
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,480
I do just want to come and see a
lesson more than for 10 minutes,

1712
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,600
perhaps, but yeah, but I don't
think you're wrong.

1713
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,560
I think that's very much
something that could happen.

1714
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:00,440
Yeah.
So, you know, observations,

1715
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:02,000
Yeah.
In a way that just know your.

1716
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:02,880
Stuff.
Would you have a limit by the

1717
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,280
way, if you did do a formal
observations because I know that

1718
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,480
like we've worked in schools for
a year or once a term or what

1719
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,200
would be your go to like off
your head, right?

1720
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:14,040
Right now, 11A year, yeah, same.
If I had to do that, maybe one a

1721
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:14,360
year.
Really.

1722
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:17,440
What's going to change?
Yeah, earlier in the year 1.

1723
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,560
And then if something was
horrendous, more than one.

1724
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:22,880
But my point is, I'm in the
classroom every day.

1725
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:24,600
Yeah, I don't need to do seven
of those.

1726
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:26,520
I don't need no.
Chance that's that they're in

1727
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:28,160
the same thing.
Dropping culture is is my

1728
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:29,280
favourite.
There's other things we can do

1729
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:30,880
though.
We could, you know, some schools

1730
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,360
you can, you can hold teachers
accountable by also talking to

1731
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:37,440
the children.
You can just do people

1732
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:38,640
conferencing.
Just get to know.

1733
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:40,920
You can get to know the teacher
through the way the children are

1734
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,480
brutally honest, right?
We've done people conferencing

1735
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:45,720
in the past and it's so
effective I find.

1736
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,800
Mr Stevens always talking about
his personal life, always

1737
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:50,160
telling me a story.
But you know what?

1738
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,240
It is a good way to know if the
kids are happy and they feel

1739
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:54,080
like they're learning.
I'll tell you what, that is a

1740
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:56,400
massive tick on your box that
we're not going to be using

1741
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:57,960
another one.
Peer observations.

1742
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,640
I thought this doesn't happen
very often because what do you

1743
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:01,040
mean to get peers?
By peer?

1744
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,560
I mean by teacher to teacher.
So it's hard to do.

1745
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:05,760
I get it because I know I've
been in schools before where

1746
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:07,400
they've tried this and it's just
hard to get the cover right.

1747
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:08,880
It's hard to get people out of
their class.

1748
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:12,680
But genuinely just like just
going to observe each other and

1749
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,160
with a kind of mindset of, oh,
you're just, you're just going

1750
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:16,400
to look for some good things.
Yeah.

1751
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:18,880
Because naturally, if there's
something a bit odd, odd, the

1752
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,120
teachers probably talk to each
other and naturally about it

1753
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:22,320
because you're with each other
all the time.

1754
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:23,880
I think peer observation can be
a really good.

1755
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,160
One and that frames it
positively instead of saying

1756
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,120
you're doing this badly fix it
what PR observations does is

1757
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:33,040
teach the competitive as well if
if I go to a fellow colleagues

1758
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:37,360
lesson almost always I'm like oh
I want to do that yeah they're.

1759
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,640
Doing something they're.
Doing something bloody awesome.

1760
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:41,280
And I, I never did that.
And you know what?

1761
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,080
If someone had said to me on
paper, you need to do this now,

1762
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:46,440
I'd be like, get out.
I teach really well.

1763
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,480
The power of seeing one of your
colleagues interact to your

1764
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,880
children in a certain way or do
something which is really good

1765
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:54,280
and you see the value in it and
you see the children loving it.

1766
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:55,920
They're making progress.
The teacher enjoys it.

1767
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,080
Do you know what?
There's such power in that way.

1768
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,600
I've come out of lessons before
and I've gone, I'm going to do

1769
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:05,080
that immediately.
When I was training named Ralph

1770
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:08,400
Fran a million times I, I looked
to her and I thought, I'm just

1771
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,560
going to copy you.
When I, when I, I did some

1772
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:14,400
redirect ink stuff with English
children in English who, yeah,

1773
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,120
sorry, phonic stuff who
couldn't, you know, read and

1774
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:18,600
write properly.
Yet I went to watch a Year 5

1775
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,040
teacher do it, who'd been doing
it for like 10 years.

1776
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:23,560
Oh my God.
I came back to my class for like

1777
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:25,359
7 new strategies.
My lessons were 10 times better

1778
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:27,439
straight away.
That didn't happen because

1779
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,479
someone who's never taught
phonics in 10 years came around

1780
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:31,600
and said, well, actually, I
don't think you want a peer

1781
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,240
assessment In the end, that's
completely pointless.

1782
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,479
What really helped me was seeing
an expert do it.

1783
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:38,399
I'm a teacher who wants to be
better.

1784
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,399
I saw an amazing thing I'm going
to do those seven things and

1785
01:08:41,399 --> 01:08:43,000
when it did them, my lessons
were better straight away.

1786
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:43,880
I.
Wonder how many schools are

1787
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:45,319
doing that.
I reckon there are some schools

1788
01:08:45,319 --> 01:08:46,760
out there who have absolutely
got it right.

1789
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:48,399
They don't have formal
observations.

1790
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:49,600
They have lots of drop
insurance.

1791
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,760
It's a really nice culture.
Teachers want to be better

1792
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:53,920
because it's a nice culture.
They go and observe each other

1793
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:55,880
all the time.
And it's isn't that such a

1794
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:58,640
powerful passive way of like
giving negative feedback.

1795
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,279
Just imagine this right?
You're an SLT who knows their

1796
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:03,800
staff really well and you,
you've identified the staff and

1797
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,560
you think they never do any like
meaningful activities any

1798
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,240
cleaner times.
They never do anything with the

1799
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:11,040
timetables and I know, I know
that class needs a bit more

1800
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,160
input and that teacher just
they're just not really getting

1801
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:14,120
it.
They do activity every now and

1802
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:16,000
then, but I tell you what, who
is a bloody good teacher?

1803
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,040
And they really just hammer the
timetables in a fun way.

1804
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,240
Is that one over there rather
than me going to that teacher

1805
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:20,880
that's.
Chloe.

1806
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,279
That Chloe bloody?
Yeah, she she knows.

1807
01:09:23,279 --> 01:09:25,040
And.
And rather than going to the

1808
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:26,840
first teacher and saying that
your timetables aren't good

1809
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:28,680
enough, you need to improve
them, right?

1810
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,880
What you do is you say we're
doing peer observations this

1811
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,200
week.
I'd really like it if you would

1812
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,319
go and watch this teacher.
Is it because you think I'm bad

1813
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:38,640
multiplication?
No, no, no.

1814
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:39,720
Out immediately.
Yeah.

1815
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:41,000
I always go and watch this
teacher.

1816
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:42,479
They're going to come watch you.
And then I just want you to

1817
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:44,120
feedback to each other.
Find 2 good things that you

1818
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:45,840
loved about the lesson.
Have a little chat for 10

1819
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:46,520
minutes.
It's, you know.

1820
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:48,920
You don't even need to say do it
yourself because it will happen.

1821
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:49,560
Yeah.
Yeah, it will.

1822
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:51,240
Happen you don't need to because
they're going to go to that

1823
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:52,520
class.
They're going to be like, oh

1824
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:54,960
man, this teacher has timetables
really well, like I kind of like

1825
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:57,480
that and they're even going to
immediately implement that or

1826
01:09:57,480 --> 01:09:59,080
that it's going to that's
planting that seed.

1827
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:01,160
It's going to eat away at their
mind and when they do time

1828
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:02,400
stables, they're going to think,
oh, that wasn't.

1829
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:04,760
Tell you what's good at that.
I'm gonna go back and ask that

1830
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:06,600
teacher, actually.
And it's just done the job for

1831
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:06,880
you.
Yeah.

1832
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:08,400
I think peer observations are
powerful.

1833
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,360
It's just very hard to get.
So do that.

1834
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:10,720
Just.
Yeah.

1835
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:13,440
To summarise, I guess, how can
we actually keep teachers

1836
01:10:13,440 --> 01:10:16,040
accountable without being toxic?
It comes down to the culture.

1837
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,120
And don't be toxic.
Number toxic, honestly that is

1838
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,320
number one and if you're in a
toxic environment it's not your

1839
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:22,720
fault.
Just know that OK, but

1840
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,240
understand your rights and what
you should be able to do.

1841
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,240
Have drop insurance constantly
get rid of that culture of fear

1842
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:32,080
that I can think of an SLT that
I've had in the past where if

1843
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:34,720
they dropped in, I would be
honestly on my tip toe, Oh my

1844
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,280
God, what's going to happen?
And add other SLT that I work

1845
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:39,320
with where I'm like, come in.
I'm glad you're here.

1846
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,760
It's nice to see you.
Come in and see my happy

1847
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,160
children.
Foster that environment.

1848
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:45,360
Drop in, see them every day.
Do an observation if you have

1849
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,680
to, but don't frame it in a way
where you're going to find

1850
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:49,720
something wrong, wrong, wrong.
Grade, grade, grade.

1851
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,440
Celebrate what's good.
If you find mistakes, do you

1852
01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:53,840
know what?
Get teachers to help each other

1853
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:55,360
out.
Go and let them see each other.

1854
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,200
Go and let them watch.
But because do you know what?

1855
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:59,680
In a primary school there will
be teachers who are better at

1856
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:01,240
teaching maths.
Yeah, there will be teachers who

1857
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,200
are better at teaching phonics
and reading and writing and

1858
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:06,480
German and French and geography
and history.

1859
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,160
Arrange it and.
If you're really unsure, go talk

1860
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:11,280
to the kids for Christ's sake.
It's all for them.

1861
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,880
Go and find out what they think
and how they feel.

1862
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,040
Because I tell you what, you get
a lot of insight from the

1863
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,480
brutality of.
Children and and have a Have an

1864
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:20,200
eye on data.
Have an eye on data?

1865
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:21,680
Of course you should.
Yeah, don't.

1866
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:24,760
We'll go and whack it in the
teachers face and say this data

1867
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:26,240
is.
Awful compared to last year.

1868
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:29,280
Yeah, just simply look at data,
understand what's going on, have

1869
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:31,200
a plan and through drop
insurance and through being

1870
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:33,120
there the whole time.
What's not going to happen then

1871
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,600
is you get to the end of the
year, you go, oh, God, data is

1872
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:36,520
awful in this.
Yeah.

1873
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,000
What have you done?
It would instead be, well, I

1874
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:40,600
was.
I came to Massachusetts all the

1875
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,040
time.
I mean, we were really.

1876
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,120
You really weren't.
All aware of that child that we

1877
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:45,560
think is slipping through the
net of the data.

1878
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:47,560
I mean, but we've all tried
something, so it must be

1879
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:49,560
something else.
Let's try a different approach.

1880
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:50,080
Exactly.
Yeah.

1881
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,840
Be positive, be nice.
Right we'll finish there's

1882
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,040
another bumper episode bumper
guys.

1883
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:57,640
We have honestly hundreds of new
listeners in the last like week

1884
01:11:57,640 --> 01:11:59,360
or two.
So hello everyone, thank you so

1885
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:02,320
much thousands.
Let's not reveal the the.

1886
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:03,240
Real.
We do this now.

1887
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,000
We notice it.
Oh yeah, we end our episode.

1888
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:06,880
We've leaned because I go to
click.

1889
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:08,640
Anyone what recording?
We both feel like I need to go

1890
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:10,160
towards the camera.
Anyway guys, thank you so much

1891
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:11,320
for listening.
Please get in touch.

1892
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:12,480
Messages.
I love messages.

1893
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:14,600
I love reading your things.
Let us know what your school's

1894
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:17,040
like.
And I love you, Hayden.