Ep 69: Alastair Campbell On Politics In School, Lowering The Voting Age & Being Optimistic

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Hello and welcome back to
another episode of Teach Seat.

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
Hayden, how's your week?

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Been my week has been superb.
Yeah.

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What about you?
It's been lovely.

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And sunny isn't?
It been lovely and sunny.

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It's been really nice.
My week's been great because I,

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me, just me, had a little chat
with someone who's going to be

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on his podcast today.
Where were you hidden?

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I was on school residential,
which is always good fun and I

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guess let's chat about that next
week.

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I'll reflect on it next time,
but score essential we'll have.

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A chat?
No problem.

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But today's episode, as you've
probably seen by the title if

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you clicked on this, is all
about politics and politics in

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school because.
Ohh sorry just saw half our

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audience go.
Well, it's typical.

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It's typical.
It's topical at the minute

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because as this episode has been
released on a Monday, it's the

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general election in Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday in just

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three.
Days keep forgetting is that

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that?
Close.

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I know literally.
So if you're listening to this,

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it's probably just before the
actual election.

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We're gonna talk in general,
because I don't want to sit here

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and and chat about how, you
know, you should vote for this

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person.
You should vote for that person.

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I think what's a more conducive
chat for us as teachers, as

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people in education and
something I think everyone's

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interested in, having seen lots
of discussion online, especially

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recently having posted some
stuff ourselves on our Instagram

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and, you know, random people
commenting, like, aren't you a

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teacher?
You can't be saying this kind of

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stuff, can you?
And it's just this idea of, I

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suppose, what is our role as
teachers?

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What is the role of the school
in teaching children about how

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our country is?
Literally wider life.

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Exactly.
And, and, and particularly

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politics because of the general
election.

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You know, if I look at what I do
in school and what most people

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do, it's minimal really.
And it takes this kind of big

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event of a general election to
even have it talked about in

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school, But it is literally how
our country is run.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
So what are you doing school?

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And I did nothing at all.
Not even the curriculum.

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No, I'm joking.
No, nothing.

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I'm afraid to mention it, to be
honest with you.

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I'm afraid to talk politics.
I will.

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I will have a chat with some
kids if they want.

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To make you afraid.
Because if you, we'll talk about

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this afterwards, but let's talk
about after this conversation,

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we talk a bit about bias, right?
I'm afraid that I am going, my

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personal bias is going to come
through and then some Aggie

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parent is gonna have something
to say about that because it's

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not on the national curriculum
to talk about it.

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And maybe that's another
discussion we can have.

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Should it be?
It's not, it's not right.

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Is it to kind of bring your
personal opinion in that respect

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into the classroom?
No, I guess we've had a chat

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about that sort of thing before.
But no, I don't think it's right

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because at the end of the day,
if someone had the complete

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opposite opinions to me,
something I didn't like, I'd be

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part of me.
Like don't say that to the kids.

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OK, that's interesting.
So let's talk about that after

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in more depth because Hayden,
whilst you're swatting away on

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residential, having the time of
your life, I'm sure proper

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holidays in it for a teacher
residential.

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I actually heard back from
someone I wanted to talk to.

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So Alistair Campbell is actually
coming on the podcast, which

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seems insane to me because
anyone who doesn't know Alistair

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Campbell is, I mean, I'm sure
you do, one of the most

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prominent people under the
Blair.

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Government, well, I will just
say jump in quickly.

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Obviously I knew you messaged me
when I was on residential

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saying, oh, guess who's coming
on the podcast when you happen

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to not be here.
I very specifically said to him

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it has to be this day.
Yeah, I couldn't believe it, but

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I was, you know, very excited
for you.

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But I said to the staff that I
was with, Ohh, Alistair

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Campbell, you know, and they all
knew that.

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Ohh, yeah, from the Blair
government.

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I was like, yeah, he's coming
out talking to Dylan.

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Well, we spoken a lot, haven't
we, previously, how it just felt

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like having gone to school
during the the years of New

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Labour that we had stuff in
school and then having taught

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afterwards.
Anyway, we talk about it.

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Well, me and Alistair, my new
podcast host.

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Yeah, Yeah, we, we talk about it
on our podcast.

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But you know, anyone who doesn't
know Alastair Campbell, you

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know, he runs with Rory Stewart.
The biggest podcast in this

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country called The Rest is
Politics.

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It's political one.
He's obviously from the Labour

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side, Rory's from the
Conservative side.

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And you know, I not gonna sit
here and say go and listen to

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their podcast, like our
endorsements gonna help them out

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at all.
But if you are remotely

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interested in politics, it's
it's an amazing.

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Podcast on your top.
That's probably your.

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Favourite I I listen to most
days, yeah, I listen to a few

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political podcasts.
But Alistair very, very kindly

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agreed to come on and there is a
reason.

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It's because he has released 2
new books and they are directly

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aimed at children.
And the aim of these books, and

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I've read both of them, is to
get children engaged in

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politics.
Now, if you think of Alistair

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Campbell, I think straight away
of Labour's very staunch Labour

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man wants Labour to get into
power, doesn't like the

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Conservatives very much.
So I thought what better person

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to chat to about what's the role
of schools then?

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Because, you know, if he was to
walk into a school, a primary

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school, say, would he be saying
to children you should vote

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Labour because the Tories are
bloody hell.

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And having read his books and
we'll talk about it in a second,

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he seemed to be able to avoid
that.

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And he's really interesting.
So I don't give too much away.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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We're going to talk about the
role of school.

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We talk about education in
general.

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Hayden, you've actually listened
to the chat.

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Yeah.
So what we'll do is we'll play

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it for you guys now, and then
afterwards you and I were sit

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down, reflect on it, and then
chat about what we think you

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know is appropriate in school or
not.

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Yeah, brilliant.
It was great.

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Let's get to the chat.
Let's do it.

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Hi, Alistair, thank you so much
for coming on.

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Pleasure.
So we're here today to talk

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about the fact you're releasing
2 brand new books.

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What is politics aimed at
primary school children.

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And Alistair Campbell Talks
Politics, which is aimed much

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more at the teenage kind of
audience.

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And I suppose the problem we
have at the minute in politics

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and with children and I guess
with adults in general, is that

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apathy is just an all time high.
No one seems to care about

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politics or want to know
anything about it.

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They're just so disillusioned.
So I suppose my first question

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to you is how can we actually
address this?

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You know what?
What is the point of your?

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Books.
Why Have you written them?

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How can we make children and
adults, I suppose, a lot more

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interested in politics as a
whole?

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Well, there aren't very, very
directly and specifically at at

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children rather than the
teachers.

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So but but obviously teachers
are likely to be teachers and

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parents, I'm assuming gonna be
the vehicle to get children,

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hopefully to take an interest
and and to read them and and the

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the the the aim.
I mean, I'll tell you how it how

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it happened.
I wrote a book last year or year

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before called the what can I do
where policy has gone wrong and

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what you can do to help fix it.
And that was aimed very much

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adults.
And then I got approached by

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another publisher who said a
Reggie book really liked it.

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But I think your real audience,
they should be children.

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And I thought about, yeah,
that's actually a very, very

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good point.
I talking, I do a lot of talks

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in schools anyway, so the first
one for primary schools and

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thank you for reading them and
thank you for having me talk

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about them as well.
But the first of the primary

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schools, as you've seen, it's,
is a very, it's trying to

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explain in really simple
language what politics is, how

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it works, what happens in it,
what the King does, what

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parliament is, what the House of
Lords does, all sort of very,

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very simple questions, but also
then try to explain why it

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matters.
And most importantly, from my

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perspective, kind of, you know,
how you get interested in, get

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engaged now, you get involved.
And then the one for teenagers

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is much, you know, it's longer,
it's got more questions in it,

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it's maybe more detail, but it's
also about how do you debate,

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how do you make a decision, how
do you strategise and so forth.

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So I actually think the older
kids book, I think will get

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quite a lot of adult adult
readers.

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I think you know a lot of
adults, there's stuff in there

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that they don't necessarily know
because unless you know this,

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unless you do politics A level,
you don't learn much about

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politics in school.
Almost nothing honestly.

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And I was going to say having
read both.

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So I read, I've read both.
The one for primary school, the

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one that you've aimed more
towards teenagers, I think are

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both very similar.
You're absolutely right in terms

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of they're quite factual,
they're quite to the point.

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And you having listened to your
podcast and knowing your

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background, especially
politically, you left a lot of

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that out and that opinion of,
you know, well, I think this is

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the way we should do things.
And yeah, even the part about

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the Lords in the primary school
one, it was, it was really

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interesting for me to read
because you made it sound like

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the Lords was a fantastic thing.
Like it was a really good.

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Idea.
Oh well, I've I've made a

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mistake.
And I thought that straight

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away.
I thought, I, I know what he

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thinks, but this is something I
was gonna try and just pry into

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you a little bit.
Because as a teacher who's

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really interested in politics,
and even as a teacher who isn't,

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if we're going to address this
with children and get them

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involved in the facts, there's,
there is a fine line between

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what we can teach in school and
what's appropriate for at home.

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And I'm wondering where you
think that line is.

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Because as teachers, you know,
we can't sit there and give our

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opinions straight up to the kids
as facts.

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And, you know, well, obviously
it's wrong that schools are

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underfunded because of this and
that, you know, that's a

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political choice.
So I'm wondering where you kind

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of fall on that.
Having read your book, it feels

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like you just want people to
know more about it, like the

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actual functions.
Well, that's that's definitely

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the purpose of this book.
I mean, I think that and and it

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is listen, it's difficult for
teachers because everybody has

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political opinions, even if
they're not aware of them.

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And everybody has views about
big decisions in government and

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so forth.
But when I was writing both of

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the books, I want them to be
entertaining.

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I want to hope that the whole
kids attention, but at the same

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time, but the back of my mind
was what if I've got some kind

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of, you know, redneck parent who
probably doesn't like me anyway?

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And and and and let's say a
teacher gives this my book to a

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kid and says, I think you should
read this.

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I think you'd enjoy.
And they go home and the dad or

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the mum, he says, what's this?
I don't like him.

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Let me see what he said.
Yeah, I was very conscious.

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I didn't want them to be able to
say there's anything there that

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sort of pushing them one way or
the other.

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So for example, when I talk
about the role of the king, so

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the king is head of government,
head of state has a sorry, the

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king is head of state and the
church head of the military.

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They have a very important role
in our constitution.

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00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:29,450
And I make the point because as
you also know, listening to the

227
00:09:29,460 --> 00:09:31,860
podcast, I'm not the biggest
monarchist.

228
00:09:32,750 --> 00:09:35,590
So I make the point that, you
know, I, I'm, I'm not the

229
00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,830
biggest monarchist in the world,
but I'm very much in the

230
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:38,970
minority.
Yeah.

231
00:09:39,020 --> 00:09:42,850
For most people, this is a
system that this is a part of

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00:09:42,860 --> 00:09:44,260
the system actually they approve
of.

233
00:09:44,270 --> 00:09:46,230
They might not.
But, you know, let's be honest,

234
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,610
King Charles is much more
popular than most politicians.

235
00:09:48,660 --> 00:09:52,610
Yeah, particularly I'm I've,
I've kind of, I've buried my own

236
00:09:52,740 --> 00:09:55,130
views.
I do say, I think I say in the

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00:09:55,140 --> 00:09:57,990
one that, you know, you're very
hard pressed to find somebody

238
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,540
today who says that Brexit is
going really, really well.

239
00:10:00,610 --> 00:10:04,630
Well, that, yes, is my opinion.
But I also I struggle to find

240
00:10:04,700 --> 00:10:06,640
people these days.
We races going well.

241
00:10:06,650 --> 00:10:10,640
So I try and straight stay that
that side of the line.

242
00:10:10,650 --> 00:10:14,320
I don't say vote Labour.
I don't say that, you know, I do

243
00:10:14,330 --> 00:10:16,880
say that I think Boris Johnson
was a disaster and his trust was

244
00:10:16,890 --> 00:10:19,360
a disaster.
But, you know, I think that's

245
00:10:19,410 --> 00:10:23,060
fair comment.
Even the kind of, you know, the

246
00:10:23,070 --> 00:10:25,430
redneck dad, I think is
probably, you know, he's got a

247
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,090
point there.
Yeah, it's gonna be hard to

248
00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:29,130
disagree with that one.
I suppose that's where, that's

249
00:10:29,140 --> 00:10:30,790
where that line is blurred a
little bit, isn't it?

250
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,610
Because like you said it, you
know, it's, it is undeniable

251
00:10:33,620 --> 00:10:35,570
schools have been squeezed in
terms of the funding.

252
00:10:35,580 --> 00:10:38,390
It's undeniable that mortgage
rates went through the roof

253
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,610
directly because of what these
politicians have done.

254
00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:44,550
So when as a teacher, you know,
I, I struggle with that in terms

255
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,330
of what's appropriate even to
bring up, because I'll give you

256
00:10:47,340 --> 00:10:50,030
one story quickly.
There's one child, children

257
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,420
especially, I teach year four
children.

258
00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:54,600
They're 7-8 years old.
So, you know, they, they have a

259
00:10:54,610 --> 00:10:58,470
very, I don't know how to put
it, shallow view of the world in

260
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,100
terms of politics and what's
going on.

261
00:11:00,250 --> 00:11:03,120
And a lot of the time I find
they're simply parroting what

262
00:11:03,130 --> 00:11:06,460
their parents have said at home.
And I had, I had one, one child

263
00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:09,130
and one of the only kind of
times that politics has

264
00:11:09,140 --> 00:11:10,640
literally come up because they
don't know about it.

265
00:11:10,650 --> 00:11:13,420
We don't teach.
It was one child sat there and,

266
00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:15,640
and basically just said how
amazing Boris Johnson was.

267
00:11:15,650 --> 00:11:17,140
Ohh, Isn't he a brilliant Prime
Minister?

268
00:11:17,150 --> 00:11:19,080
You know, he's, he's saying what
people want to hear.

269
00:11:19,090 --> 00:11:20,420
He's doing what people want to
do.

270
00:11:20,530 --> 00:11:23,520
And as, as a teacher, who, you
know, my personal opinion very

271
00:11:23,530 --> 00:11:25,960
much anti that and I, I think
he's an abomination.

272
00:11:26,250 --> 00:11:28,920
It, you know, I had to really
step back and just go, OK,

273
00:11:28,990 --> 00:11:30,700
interesting.
You know, yeah, other people

274
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:33,040
might disagree, but you know,
that's your that's your opinion

275
00:11:33,050 --> 00:11:35,700
and, and pride of it just turned
out it's what his dad had said,

276
00:11:35,710 --> 00:11:37,780
basically.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.

277
00:11:37,850 --> 00:11:41,120
But you know, there's a bit you
you mentioned there about, you

278
00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:43,830
know, could you say all
education is underfunded.

279
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,040
What I've done on that, for
example, is that in some of the

280
00:11:47,050 --> 00:11:50,600
challenges that I give the kids
say, right, OK, go away and,

281
00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:53,400
and, and check online, you know,
how much it costs to run the

282
00:11:53,410 --> 00:11:55,750
health service, how much cost to
run British schools and so

283
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,290
forth.
Let's imagine you're the Prime

284
00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:03,710
Minister and you want to spend
10 billion more on schools or on

285
00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,460
hospitals.
What would you spend less on?

286
00:12:07,510 --> 00:12:10,620
Yeah, You know, so I don't say
all schools are underfunded,

287
00:12:10,630 --> 00:12:12,680
they should get more.
I say if you're the Prime

288
00:12:12,690 --> 00:12:15,300
Minister, you're actually having
to make difficult decisions

289
00:12:15,550 --> 00:12:17,480
trying to get the kids to
understand that's what

290
00:12:17,490 --> 00:12:19,730
government is like.
Yeah, absolutely.

291
00:12:19,790 --> 00:12:21,920
Yeah.
And when I do go into schools,

292
00:12:21,930 --> 00:12:24,560
you know, obviously you get some
kids who just think there's this

293
00:12:24,570 --> 00:12:26,880
old bloke coming in here or I
don't care what he thinks.

294
00:12:26,930 --> 00:12:30,080
But I find actually most kids
are really, really interested

295
00:12:30,170 --> 00:12:35,140
once you explain to them.
But from my perspective, where

296
00:12:35,230 --> 00:12:38,660
where I've come from, what my
background is, the work that

297
00:12:38,670 --> 00:12:41,520
I've done in media and then in
politics and, and the stuff that

298
00:12:41,530 --> 00:12:44,680
I do now, when I talk about some
of the characters that I know,

299
00:12:44,690 --> 00:12:48,470
some of the big issues I've
dealt with you, it's very rare.

300
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,560
I don't get a classroom that
thinks, well, that's quite

301
00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:52,840
interesting.
And then you start to bring them

302
00:12:52,850 --> 00:12:56,170
out themselves and they become
really quite enlivened and

303
00:12:56,180 --> 00:13:00,380
excited about what politics
might mean to them.

304
00:13:00,510 --> 00:13:04,900
And I did a I did a school
recently where say about 1/3 of

305
00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:08,740
the class were gonna get the
vote for the first time.

306
00:13:08,750 --> 00:13:11,150
Right.
In the in the general election

307
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,150
on July the 4th and honestly
that there was a real excitement

308
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,770
now I felt I could tap into by
and again, even in the school.

309
00:13:17,780 --> 00:13:22,090
I mean, I never hide the fact
more policy, sure, but I but I

310
00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:25,050
do say to them, I'd rather you
vote Tory than didn't vote at

311
00:13:25,060 --> 00:13:27,190
all.
Yeah, but but what I'd really

312
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,870
like you to do is to think about
it.

313
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,810
What is that?
You know, you're not choosing

314
00:13:31,820 --> 00:13:36,370
between or is is is it 9 out of
10 perfection or 10 out of 10

315
00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:38,370
perfection?
You're choosing between

316
00:13:38,460 --> 00:13:41,630
political parties and political
candidates and you have to make

317
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,910
a judgement in the round about
who you think would be the best

318
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,250
person and that's all it is and
but take it seriously.

319
00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:49,590
Well, they find that genuinely
who they are and what they're.

320
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,450
Saying that's the thing.
This is what I was gonna ask you

321
00:13:51,460 --> 00:13:53,320
about.
And because I think without a

322
00:13:53,330 --> 00:13:56,290
doubt, every single person in
this landscape of political, you

323
00:13:56,300 --> 00:13:59,390
know, commentary through your
podcast rested Politics with

324
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,040
Rory Stewart, through, you know,
I've been listening to Times

325
00:14:02,050 --> 00:14:03,370
radio.
I'm not a reader of the Times,

326
00:14:03,380 --> 00:14:06,350
but I'm just trying to take in
as much as I can and everyone

327
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,440
down to a tee says register to
vote, go and vote.

328
00:14:09,450 --> 00:14:11,460
And I wanted just to push you a
bit again, as someone who's

329
00:14:11,470 --> 00:14:14,380
quite opinionated and I, you
know, very much I'd say at your

330
00:14:14,390 --> 00:14:16,720
well, you'd say yourself anti
conservative.

331
00:14:16,770 --> 00:14:18,280
You've kind of touched on it
there a bit.

332
00:14:18,290 --> 00:14:21,430
You know, would would you
genuinely rather convince

333
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,870
someone and would you spend a
good chunk of time convincing

334
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,770
someone to vote knowing they're
going to vote against what you

335
00:14:26,780 --> 00:14:28,910
believe in?
Do you find that is much better?

336
00:14:29,860 --> 00:14:33,950
If I put it this way right now,
during an election period, if I

337
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,940
was trying to persuade someone
to do anything, I'd be trying to

338
00:14:36,950 --> 00:14:38,480
persuade them to vote Labour.
Yep.

339
00:14:39,060 --> 00:14:42,000
Or vote to get rid of the Tory
if it's in a kind of Lib Dem

340
00:14:42,010 --> 00:14:45,990
marginal or something.
But in general terms, yeah, I

341
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,390
will absolutely say to people if
I happen the other day, we're

342
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,290
coming out of a I was in Germany
for the football and I met these

343
00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:57,220
young guys and they were, they
were English that we've been a

344
00:14:57,230 --> 00:15:00,870
Spain, Croatia game.
And they were giving me a bit of

345
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,150
grief and we're having a bit of
a laugh.

346
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,890
They were sort of, you know,
taking them make more of you.

347
00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:06,230
And one of them was telling his
heroes, Marine Le Pen.

348
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,040
You know what?
And, and anyway, so then we go

349
00:15:09,050 --> 00:15:11,590
and then one of them said, you
know, I don't think I'll bother

350
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,650
voting.
And, and I said, well, I really

351
00:15:13,660 --> 00:15:17,030
think you should.
And, and I, you know, and I, and

352
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,430
I say to people like that, look,
I, I obviously like to persuade

353
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,220
you to vote Labour.
Umm, but if you actually

354
00:15:23,230 --> 00:15:27,100
thought, you know, do you know
what I believe what Rishi Sunak

355
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:29,600
saying?
I think he's better than Keir

356
00:15:29,610 --> 00:15:31,620
Starmer.
I'd rather you said that, but

357
00:15:31,630 --> 00:15:35,130
thought about it first, yes.
And, and then voted.

358
00:15:35,140 --> 00:15:37,140
And I, I genuinely, I genuinely
mean that.

359
00:15:37,150 --> 00:15:39,920
I think that, look, I'd be in
favour of compulsory voting.

360
00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:44,010
And I think actually compulsory
voting allied to political

361
00:15:44,020 --> 00:15:47,800
education and lowering the
voting age, I think would be a

362
00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:50,900
real boost to the kind of the
health of democracy.

363
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,910
Because the the problem at the
moment this this maybe relates

364
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,990
more to the the senior school
book, is that, you know, a lot

365
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,790
of older people have this view
of younger people either.

366
00:16:02,850 --> 00:16:05,770
This is kind of my view, quite
romantic, quite rosy.

367
00:16:05,780 --> 00:16:07,840
I think that's where the energy
is coming from.

368
00:16:07,850 --> 00:16:10,050
That's where the future is going
to be shaped.

369
00:16:10,060 --> 00:16:12,710
And, you know, if you spend a
bit of time with any young

370
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,360
person, you're going to find a
lot of good in there.

371
00:16:14,370 --> 00:16:16,170
That's kind of my, yeah, my
view.

372
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,140
Another view is they're all very
spoiled.

373
00:16:19,150 --> 00:16:21,010
They're all entitled.
They all think, you know,

374
00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:23,120
they'll spend the whole time
social media, etcetera,

375
00:16:23,130 --> 00:16:26,200
etcetera, etcetera.
Now is somewhere in between.

376
00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:28,610
Yeah.
But the the bit, the bit that

377
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:33,250
that that I think people should
be aware of is that the desire

378
00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:36,600
of the population in every
continent of the world that is

379
00:16:36,610 --> 00:16:40,140
most attracted to
authoritarianism is the young.

380
00:16:40,370 --> 00:16:44,770
It's not.
That being said, a far bigger

381
00:16:44,780 --> 00:16:48,650
majority is not attracted to
authoritarianism, actually does

382
00:16:48,660 --> 00:16:52,850
care about future of the planet,
inequality, gay rights, trans

383
00:16:52,860 --> 00:16:56,230
rights, all the kind of, you
know, all the public services,

384
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,570
all the stuff that kind of
motivates people.

385
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:05,270
And I just think it's important
that they are educated,

386
00:17:05,329 --> 00:17:10,510
including in school.
They're educated about the

387
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,910
importance of them having a
voice, them respecting their own

388
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,720
views and feeling that their
views matter.

389
00:17:17,420 --> 00:17:20,329
And this thing about, you know,
is all sort of just absorbing

390
00:17:20,339 --> 00:17:23,430
the views of our parents.
I mean, look, that's fine up to

391
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,930
a point.
But on something as important as

392
00:17:26,940 --> 00:17:30,630
politics, if you're only getting
you, your views from, say, one

393
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,400
newspaper or one pair or
whatever it might be, it's never

394
00:17:34,410 --> 00:17:35,950
going to give you a broad enough
canvas.

395
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,930
And I just, I just I feel that,
you know, one of the things I've

396
00:17:38,940 --> 00:17:43,220
tried to do with both of the
books is is get kids to almost

397
00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:46,000
kind of want to learn about
politics and say to their

398
00:17:46,010 --> 00:17:48,060
teachers, why don't we talk
about that?

399
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:49,340
We talk about politics.
You.

400
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:51,980
Know yeah, it's it's really
important I was gonna kind of

401
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:54,500
lead on from what you said there
in terms of, you know, the

402
00:17:54,510 --> 00:17:57,020
overall, you know, desire for
you.

403
00:17:57,030 --> 00:17:59,440
I guess having read them books
myself is I got that that you

404
00:17:59,450 --> 00:18:01,500
just wanted children to
literally get involved in

405
00:18:01,510 --> 00:18:03,220
politics and understand what it
is.

406
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:06,120
And I look at it today and I,
you know, I'm an avid listener

407
00:18:06,130 --> 00:18:10,120
of your podcast and it, it seems
to me as if we could go back

408
00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:12,480
through every single Prime
Minister in a row and the

409
00:18:12,490 --> 00:18:14,940
overwhelming feeling would be
negativity and, and would be,

410
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:16,820
you know, like you said, you
know, King Charles is more

411
00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:18,780
popular than any, any MP you can
think of.

412
00:18:18,850 --> 00:18:20,740
And we've got the betting
scandal at the minute.

413
00:18:20,750 --> 00:18:23,860
And we've got all this kind of
idea that politics is just an

414
00:18:23,870 --> 00:18:26,620
absolute cesspit.
And I suppose what I'm saying is

415
00:18:26,690 --> 00:18:29,840
what you're doing is really
valuable getting into schools.

416
00:18:29,850 --> 00:18:32,760
But for those children who then
do kind of have their interest

417
00:18:32,770 --> 00:18:35,580
peaked by, you know, lessons in
school and teachers and, and

418
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:38,680
books like yours, who have they
actually got to look up to then

419
00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:40,070
in the world of politics at the
minute?

420
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,920
Because I, I look at it and I
think it's sparse.

421
00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:44,270
I know you mentioned in your, I
think it was your Alistair

422
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,460
Campbell Talks politics book,
you mentioned the fact you were

423
00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:50,420
inspired by MLK and you know
this, this amazing figure and

424
00:18:50,430 --> 00:18:52,950
this unbelievable speech about
him having a dream.

425
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,950
If, if I look at politics in the
last 1015 years in my adulthood.

426
00:18:58,020 --> 00:19:01,770
So I turned 18 in 2010, just in
time for this coalition, which

427
00:19:01,780 --> 00:19:05,700
was great timing.
If I look at my adult life, I

428
00:19:05,710 --> 00:19:09,300
can't see anyone or think of
anything tangible that I can

429
00:19:09,310 --> 00:19:12,060
hold on to and say, wow,
politics did that, that.

430
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:14,060
That's made my life so much
better.

431
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:16,560
And I kind of understand it when
people are more apathetic.

432
00:19:16,570 --> 00:19:20,100
What can we do about that?
Well, I was in a school recently

433
00:19:20,110 --> 00:19:24,440
and this girl, she was about 14
and she said this question made

434
00:19:24,450 --> 00:19:27,240
me really sad when she said it,
but her friends kind of laughed

435
00:19:27,250 --> 00:19:29,100
because she was, you know, it
was like she was taking the

436
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:31,500
Mickey out of me really.
But she wasn't supposed her

437
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:32,930
afterwards.
She was really serious.

438
00:19:33,620 --> 00:19:37,890
And she said as politics always
been as bad as this, Yeah.

439
00:19:37,950 --> 00:19:40,190
And wow.
And I said, well, why did you

440
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,290
say that?
And and her only memories of

441
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:46,120
politics, real memories she
said, were family rounds about

442
00:19:46,130 --> 00:19:51,390
Brexit, Johnson being Prime
Minister, COVID parties, trusts

443
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,770
Putin, Trump, Gaza.
Wow.

444
00:19:55,810 --> 00:19:59,110
That was it.
And she knew a bit about

445
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:01,030
climate.
She cared about climate and

446
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:02,590
biodiversity.
Yeah.

447
00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:04,610
And she said she felt that was
going backwards.

448
00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:06,790
So, you know, that's your
experience with politics.

449
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,630
So I was able to.
It's why I say in the book

450
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,110
things like Martin Luther King,
things like When we did the Good

451
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:11,810
Friday.
Agreement.

452
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:13,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, when I launched the

453
00:20:13,530 --> 00:20:15,350
book, I did it on this thing
with Waterstones.

454
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,600
I had two and a half thousand
school kids on there and they're

455
00:20:18,610 --> 00:20:19,790
quite a lot from Northern
Ireland.

456
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,810
And I was thinking there's a kid
they, you know, 12 or 13.

457
00:20:23,140 --> 00:20:27,820
He has grown up in a in a
Northern Ireland, Yeah, that his

458
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:29,640
parents didn't know.
Yeah, amazing.

459
00:20:29,870 --> 00:20:32,000
You know, and, and that and
politics did that.

460
00:20:32,010 --> 00:20:33,700
Yeah.
Politics did it, You know, So

461
00:20:33,770 --> 00:20:36,610
it's trying to persuade people
that it's not a cesspit.

462
00:20:36,620 --> 00:20:38,580
Hmm.
And, you know, even now at the

463
00:20:38,590 --> 00:20:42,220
moment, obviously on one level,
I can look at the betting

464
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:44,360
scandal and think, oh, this is
quite good because it's doing

465
00:20:44,370 --> 00:20:46,180
the damp Tories even more
damage.

466
00:20:46,750 --> 00:20:49,440
On the other hand, I think God
Almighty is all heard about four

467
00:20:49,450 --> 00:20:51,070
days or in the middle of an
election campaign.

468
00:20:51,130 --> 00:20:52,630
Yeah.
Can we please talk about the

469
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,050
economy?
Can we please talk about

470
00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:55,660
education?
Can we please talk about

471
00:20:55,670 --> 00:20:58,710
transport or something?
Yeah, it, you know, and I think

472
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,440
that the other reason why I
think, you know, one of my

473
00:21:01,450 --> 00:21:03,400
mottos is read books, not
newspapers.

474
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:09,110
I, I, I think that books like
this, I hope will and, and it's,

475
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,610
and it's what you said.
I mean, I, I do want to inspire

476
00:21:11,620 --> 00:21:13,290
young people to think.
I'm going to give that.

477
00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:14,370
A go?
Absolutely.

478
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,670
You know, that's what I'm trying
to.

479
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,330
Do, yeah.
And I think having read them,

480
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,310
especially the primary one of my
primary head on, it's a book I

481
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,180
can imagine diving into with my
kids.

482
00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:25,240
And I think the thing that I'm
really passionate about and what

483
00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:28,660
your book would be a vessel for,
in my opinion, is just getting

484
00:21:28,670 --> 00:21:32,170
kids to talk about it and
literally just to get them to

485
00:21:32,180 --> 00:21:35,160
understand that politics isn't
this thing where blokes and

486
00:21:35,170 --> 00:21:37,760
suits just go into a weird old
room and shout at each other.

487
00:21:37,770 --> 00:21:40,290
Politics is the fact that this
morning you went to Breakfast

488
00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:41,590
Club for free.
You might not know that.

489
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,230
Yeah, but it it's affecting your
life and I.

490
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,820
Suppose what I wanted.
To make the point of again was

491
00:21:46,890 --> 00:21:51,380
I, like I said, I was born in
1993, so my childhood through

492
00:21:51,390 --> 00:21:54,360
school, my experience was under
a Labour government, under New

493
00:21:54,370 --> 00:21:57,150
Labour.
And I know having been

494
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,280
interested in politics, you
know, education, education,

495
00:21:59,290 --> 00:22:00,920
education, I'm sure everyone
said that to you a million

496
00:22:00,930 --> 00:22:04,980
times.
I felt like I went to school and

497
00:22:05,070 --> 00:22:07,900
I think I had things and it
sounds so crazy that I can just

498
00:22:07,910 --> 00:22:09,940
dilute it into that.
But I had stuff.

499
00:22:09,950 --> 00:22:12,350
There was, there was, it felt
like there was funding cause we

500
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,010
had new playtime equipment.
It felt like every year we got a

501
00:22:15,020 --> 00:22:17,410
new computer suite.
It felt like we always had

502
00:22:17,420 --> 00:22:20,310
something where our teachers
weren't burnt out or not, you

503
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,830
know, worried about their
paycheck and stuff.

504
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,580
And now I work in school and I
can compare it directly.

505
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,850
I know I might have roasted into
glasses because I enjoyed

506
00:22:28,860 --> 00:22:31,870
school, but it's the the
comparison is just just

507
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:36,500
unbelievable.
I see everywhere I go, umm, and,

508
00:22:36,510 --> 00:22:38,400
and the other thing, I'll give
you another thing which which

509
00:22:38,410 --> 00:22:41,970
sometimes connects and resonates
with, with, with children,

510
00:22:41,980 --> 00:22:47,030
particularly boys.
And you know, I, I, you say you,

511
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,710
you take something like
virtually every senior school

512
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,430
you go into these days.
Andrew Tate's name comes.

513
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:53,970
Up today.
Right.

514
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,010
Well, that's horrific, but
that's political.

515
00:22:59,020 --> 00:23:02,250
Yeah, that's political.
He is part of a kind of

516
00:23:02,260 --> 00:23:08,410
political positioning, and he's
using political tools such as

517
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:11,470
social media, such as TikTok,
all that other stuff.

518
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:16,290
He's using that to have
political influence over young

519
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:17,430
people.
Yeah.

520
00:23:17,580 --> 00:23:20,390
So on the one hand, we say, ohh,
you can't possibly have a

521
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,240
teacher telling what's right and
wrong and expensive and good and

522
00:23:23,250 --> 00:23:27,210
politically bad, but you can
allow this kind of avalanche of

523
00:23:27,370 --> 00:23:30,790
misogynist bullshit to infect
their minds.

524
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,510
So I think it's broadening that
definition of and, and, and

525
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,050
getting kids to understand that
politics can either be a force

526
00:23:39,060 --> 00:23:41,250
for good or a force or bad.
Yeah, yeah.

527
00:23:41,260 --> 00:23:43,510
And there's that quote to have
in the, in, in the book, you

528
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,110
know, from Pericles, you may not
do politics.

529
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:49,020
Politics is gonna do you, you
know.

530
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:51,990
That's true.
I remember an advert campaign.

531
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,920
Again, I don't know when it was.
I would have just been a literal

532
00:23:53,930 --> 00:23:56,860
child, not know what politics
was, but it's stuck with me.

533
00:23:56,930 --> 00:23:59,580
And it was someone, there were
two blokes sat in a pub and one

534
00:23:59,590 --> 00:24:01,480
of them started talking about
politics and everyone said I

535
00:24:01,490 --> 00:24:03,790
don't do politics.
And then it just cut to like

536
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,670
three or four or five different
situations in his life where he

537
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,640
wanted to complain about the
potholes in the road and he

538
00:24:08,650 --> 00:24:10,740
wanted to complain about the
price going up in the shops.

539
00:24:10,750 --> 00:24:13,500
And his mate would go, you don't
do politics, you can't talk

540
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:15,800
about it.
And I suppose the whole point is

541
00:24:15,870 --> 00:24:19,310
from a young age, not, you know,
as you said, broadening that

542
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,170
definition hopefully will
actually make a difference in

543
00:24:22,180 --> 00:24:23,700
terms of people being interested
in it.

544
00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:26,510
For sure.
And and and and and, you know,

545
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,980
and let's be honest, that so
many people these days are

546
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:33,220
cynical.
Kids are, in the main, being

547
00:24:33,230 --> 00:24:35,820
raised by parents who are
cynical about politics.

548
00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:37,020
Yeah.
You know, if you watched that

549
00:24:37,030 --> 00:24:39,440
Question Time last night, I did.
There was some good questions.

550
00:24:39,450 --> 00:24:43,370
But, you know, for the BBC to
have a guy asking a question,

551
00:24:43,380 --> 00:24:46,080
you know, are you 2?
The best people in this country

552
00:24:46,090 --> 00:24:47,780
can produce.
It's just like playing into this

553
00:24:47,790 --> 00:24:48,450
idea.
You're all.

554
00:24:48,650 --> 00:24:50,140
You're all.
The same it felt like GB news

555
00:24:50,150 --> 00:24:51,940
question.
It sounds stupid because GB news

556
00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:55,020
a certain, you know, right wing
of anything, but it felt like a

557
00:24:55,090 --> 00:24:57,330
a pandering to just get a clap.
Do you know what I mean?

558
00:24:57,340 --> 00:24:59,880
Yeah, you're all rubbish.
And I, I really wanted to ask

559
00:24:59,890 --> 00:25:01,670
you this Alistair, because I've
listened to a lot of your

560
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,030
podcasts.
I know you host the podcast with

561
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,840
Rory Stewart and ex Tory
minister.

562
00:25:05,850 --> 00:25:08,430
So you couldn't be further apart
on your spectrum of what you've

563
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:09,810
done in government and things
like that.

564
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,840
And what, what do I say to my
children or even my my

565
00:25:13,850 --> 00:25:15,530
colleagues?
Let's say, let's you know, my

566
00:25:15,540 --> 00:25:17,790
apathetic colleagues or my
children who are just learning,

567
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,950
who again, just say, ohh,
they're all the same.

568
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,100
They're all the same, aren't
they?

569
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:24,270
You know, all these politicians
because I, I really believe

570
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:25,680
they're not.
And I want to know what you.

571
00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:27,160
Think.
Well, I'll tell you how I answer

572
00:25:27,170 --> 00:25:33,390
that question.
I always say things like so

573
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,020
with, particularly with the with
with young people, I'll say, OK,

574
00:25:36,030 --> 00:25:37,370
hands up.
Who thinks Brexit was a good

575
00:25:37,380 --> 00:25:41,420
idea?
Nobody will put the hand up,

576
00:25:42,530 --> 00:25:45,970
I'll say.
So do you think it matters that

577
00:25:46,020 --> 00:25:48,030
we've left Europe?
Yeah, yeah, of course.

578
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:50,810
And I said, well, the reason we
left the European Union was

579
00:25:50,820 --> 00:25:56,070
because politicians, people like
Nigel Farage led the campaign

580
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,190
with newspapers to try and force
David Cameron to have a

581
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,410
referendum.
David Cameron had the

582
00:26:01,420 --> 00:26:03,360
referendum.
David Cameron thought he was

583
00:26:03,370 --> 00:26:06,450
going to win the referendum.
Boris Johnson and Michael Gove,

584
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,720
for their own reasons, not very
noble in my view, decided to

585
00:26:10,730 --> 00:26:14,870
fight for Leave, not Remain.
That is what made the

586
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,270
difference.
Yeah, they made the difference.

587
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,870
I may hate the fact that they've
become the, you know, they

588
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,150
actually have got historical,
their historical figures for

589
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,190
that reason.
Yeah.

590
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,300
And then I say to them, if
Hillary Clinton had beaten

591
00:26:29,310 --> 00:26:32,190
Donald Trump, didn't work, do
you think America and the world

592
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,930
would be exactly the same or
different?

593
00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:36,860
Doesn't work different, right?
Well, that's because she's

594
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:38,870
different to him.
Precisely right.

595
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,050
Yeah, You know, Jeremy Corbyn,
Boris Johnson, different Rishi

596
00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:45,310
Sunak, Keir Starmer, different.
People want to say they're all

597
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,350
the same.
They're incredibly different.

598
00:26:47,410 --> 00:26:50,600
John Major.
Tony Blair beat beat John Major.

599
00:26:50,830 --> 00:26:54,060
Now give you an example.
And I've actually got a lot of

600
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:56,350
time for John Major these days.
I think, you know, age has

601
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:58,630
mellowed me and.
I listened to it leading

602
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,870
interview of you guys.
Yeah, really.

603
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,750
Good.
Yeah, really good.

604
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:07,050
And but the fact is that we were
fighting in that election

605
00:27:07,060 --> 00:27:10,110
campaign in 1997 for a minimum
wage.

606
00:27:11,010 --> 00:27:13,880
The John Major attack on that
policy was it will cost a

607
00:27:13,890 --> 00:27:17,890
million jobs.
It didn't, it didn't it helped

608
00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:21,820
the employment market.
So, and that's A and that

609
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:24,560
change, by the way, I think I
say in the in the Talks politics

610
00:27:24,570 --> 00:27:28,660
book, that change took 100 years
for the Labour Party to get Wow,

611
00:27:28,670 --> 00:27:33,890
the first campaign for a minimum
wage was 100 years before it

612
00:27:33,900 --> 00:27:35,410
happened.
That's insane.

613
00:27:35,420 --> 00:27:37,240
That's crazy.
And, and I guess what I'm

614
00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:40,120
looking at these days, moving
towards, I suppose the election

615
00:27:40,130 --> 00:27:42,120
that's literally happening now
in terms of location.

616
00:27:42,430 --> 00:27:44,990
And, you know, I've had these,
I've had colleagues say to me,

617
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,740
they're all the same.
And I'm really trying to

618
00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:48,100
convince them that they're not
though.

619
00:27:48,110 --> 00:27:50,240
So if we can vote for change, we
really should.

620
00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:52,990
And trying to get across that.
But I suppose what I was gonna

621
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,400
say to you is I, I find myself
sometimes saying that from a

622
00:27:56,410 --> 00:27:58,080
very much anti Tory point of
view.

623
00:27:58,090 --> 00:28:00,420
Now I know you've interviewed
Bridget Phillipson, you know,

624
00:28:00,430 --> 00:28:03,050
you've, you, you're, you're very
much pro Labour, just like I am

625
00:28:03,060 --> 00:28:04,920
as well in terms of we want a
Labour government.

626
00:28:04,990 --> 00:28:07,880
But I will be really honest, if
I was an apathetic teacher

627
00:28:07,890 --> 00:28:10,400
watching that debate yesterday,
or in fact, any debate or in

628
00:28:10,410 --> 00:28:14,460
fact any coverage at all of this
election, I would not be, you

629
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:17,280
know, I would forgive them for
thinking, well, what are they

630
00:28:17,290 --> 00:28:20,040
gonna do for education then?
If I'm thinking as a teacher sat

631
00:28:20,050 --> 00:28:22,100
there, you know, OK, I know
they're gonna put that in

632
00:28:22,110 --> 00:28:23,260
private schools.
OK, cool.

633
00:28:23,270 --> 00:28:25,400
That's a really tangible thing.
I can see they're gonna, you

634
00:28:25,410 --> 00:28:26,840
know, hire teachers because of
it.

635
00:28:26,970 --> 00:28:30,180
But, you know, there was a
survey where the top 10 things

636
00:28:30,190 --> 00:28:32,860
teachers are currently worried
about or want change with none

637
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:35,150
of them involved private,
private school taxing.

638
00:28:35,210 --> 00:28:38,160
It was, you know, retention
figures are horrendous.

639
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:40,500
Support staff aren't giving
enough money or we don't have

640
00:28:40,510 --> 00:28:42,640
enough support staff.
Class sizes are bigger.

641
00:28:42,860 --> 00:28:43,470
What?
What?

642
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,720
What's your opinion on when July
5th comes around?

643
00:28:46,730 --> 00:28:48,250
You know, assuming we're gonna
get a Labour government.

644
00:28:48,260 --> 00:28:50,230
I know you don't want to say we
will, but assuming we will,

645
00:28:50,380 --> 00:28:52,100
what's your opinion of what will
happen?

646
00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:55,070
Do you think we will see quick
change or will it take a bit of

647
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,510
time?
I think it will take time.

648
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,110
I think there will be stuff that
hopefully will happen fairly

649
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,570
quickly because the thing about,
you know, the old cliche, change

650
00:29:03,580 --> 00:29:05,380
begets change.
I think if there is change,

651
00:29:05,390 --> 00:29:07,060
there will be a change of mood
in the country.

652
00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:10,910
Yeah, There will be a new sort
of energy and and people will

653
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,720
start to think of kind of, you
know, more innovative ways of

654
00:29:13,790 --> 00:29:15,560
ways of doing stuff.
But the money is going to be

655
00:29:15,570 --> 00:29:17,080
tight.
There's no doubt about that.

656
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,960
I don't know if you saw the
interview with Bridget

657
00:29:19,970 --> 00:29:21,820
Phillipson on the podcast.
Yeah.

658
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:22,930
Last week.
Yeah.

659
00:29:23,780 --> 00:29:26,760
And I, I thought it was, you
know, I was gonna say to

660
00:29:26,770 --> 00:29:30,070
herself, would I rather have her
in charge of our schools than

661
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,410
junior?
Yeah.

662
00:29:31,420 --> 00:29:35,940
All day.
All day, is she going to

663
00:29:36,050 --> 00:29:39,910
struggle to meet all the demands
and expectations everybody in

664
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,380
the sector for sure, because
anybody would in the current,

665
00:29:42,490 --> 00:29:44,180
the current.
Environment, even David Blunkett

666
00:29:44,190 --> 00:29:47,070
said He was met with, you know,
derisory cheers and people

667
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,280
against him and he did a lot of
good for the education.

668
00:29:49,290 --> 00:29:51,300
Exactly, exactly.
So it's gonna be our.

669
00:29:51,310 --> 00:29:53,180
But I think the blanket point is
interesting.

670
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:57,500
The the thing for me on
education that I, I don't fully

671
00:29:57,510 --> 00:30:02,580
understand is that it has fallen
down the political agenda.

672
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:04,810
Now, you can blame the
government for that, but

673
00:30:04,820 --> 00:30:09,250
actually what is up and down the
political agenda isn't just

674
00:30:09,260 --> 00:30:10,930
about the government.
It's about campaigning.

675
00:30:10,940 --> 00:30:12,870
Yeah.
It's about the opposition.

676
00:30:13,060 --> 00:30:16,590
It's about whether, you know, in
your world, whether the trade

677
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,910
unions can actually sort of, you
know, elevate the issues up the

678
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,010
up the agenda.
It's about the media.

679
00:30:23,020 --> 00:30:24,610
It's about whether the media
care about stuff.

680
00:30:24,660 --> 00:30:26,930
Now, we took a strategic
decision.

681
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,130
You said education, education,
education.

682
00:30:29,140 --> 00:30:33,390
That was a classic example of a
sound bite that actually was

683
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:39,370
underlining a strategy.
He was basically saying, and

684
00:30:39,410 --> 00:30:41,700
I'll give you an example that
where Labour are doing it at the

685
00:30:41,710 --> 00:30:45,320
moment.
Labour have been emphasising the

686
00:30:45,330 --> 00:30:48,500
importance of planning reform.
Yeah, OK, now that's important

687
00:30:48,510 --> 00:30:50,320
and hopefully they'll be able to
do it.

688
00:30:50,930 --> 00:30:55,240
It's only if you do emphasise in
opposition that you can actually

689
00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:57,360
do stuff in government.
So education, education,

690
00:30:57,370 --> 00:30:59,960
education standards, not
structures.

691
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:03,430
The smaller the pledge on the
smaller class size is paid for

692
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,240
by getting rid of the assisted
places schemes.

693
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:07,880
These were were signals of
direction.

694
00:31:08,330 --> 00:31:11,220
What I would say about what
Labour doing at the moment.

695
00:31:11,230 --> 00:31:14,010
So the VAT thing, for example,
is a signal of direction.

696
00:31:14,020 --> 00:31:17,810
Yeah, that when it comes to
priorities, we are going to put

697
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:20,650
the state sector right up there.
Definitely.

698
00:31:20,660 --> 00:31:23,090
OK.
So that's a relatively small

699
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:26,180
change which is causing a lot of
grief and kind of, you know,

700
00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:28,740
some parts of the country with
some parts of the population who

701
00:31:28,750 --> 00:31:31,750
don't like it, call it class war
and all that stuff, but what

702
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,030
it's doing is signalling that.
So our priority then in relation

703
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,130
to other.
It was interesting that Bridget

704
00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:41,190
taught on the podcast about, you
know, the current curriculum is

705
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,730
essentially Michael Govier.
I wanna talk.

706
00:31:43,740 --> 00:31:46,290
About that, yeah.
Yeah, and that's gonna change

707
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:49,790
and that, again, I think will
hopefully create a kind of a new

708
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,330
sense of energy.
But where you're absolutely

709
00:31:51,340 --> 00:31:55,900
right is that ultimately Labour
are going to have to be able to

710
00:31:55,910 --> 00:31:58,370
grow the economy and are going
to have to invest more.

711
00:31:58,460 --> 00:32:01,830
I think the other thing that
will happen though, is that, you

712
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,010
know, I can remember, for
example, we did all sorts of

713
00:32:04,020 --> 00:32:05,190
stuff.
People go on about this

714
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,890
partnership with the private
sector and what have you.

715
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,180
We did loads of stuff in
partnership with the private

716
00:32:10,190 --> 00:32:14,300
sector about improving certain
aspects of the education system

717
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:17,200
at different points and I hope
there'll be more of that as

718
00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:18,240
well.
Yeah, I hope so.

719
00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:20,200
I, I get that impression that
they're talking about it.

720
00:32:20,210 --> 00:32:22,500
I just, I, I, I, I know why
they're doing it.

721
00:32:22,510 --> 00:32:24,300
You know, they don't want to
overpromise and they wanna get

722
00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:26,820
into power.
And I think what I would say is

723
00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:30,340
as, as, as teachers, when I know
my colleagues and I talked to me

724
00:32:30,350 --> 00:32:34,550
about politics, what I will say,
you know, pros or cons out of

725
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:40,840
the window for a second in 2017,
there was a huge kind of uplift,

726
00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:43,860
had colleagues who were excited
about things might change, you

727
00:32:43,870 --> 00:32:46,250
know, and, and Corbyn was in
charge and he had all of these

728
00:32:46,260 --> 00:32:48,710
policies, but ultimately he
didn't get into power.

729
00:32:48,780 --> 00:32:50,880
And ultimately there are a
million other reasons why that

730
00:32:50,890 --> 00:32:52,340
didn't happen.
And he got, he got down.

731
00:32:52,350 --> 00:32:54,280
So I've kind of changed over
that time.

732
00:32:54,290 --> 00:32:57,850
And I, I think power is more
important than than policies in

733
00:32:57,860 --> 00:33:00,340
terms of when you're out of it.
You need to be in power first,

734
00:33:00,350 --> 00:33:03,960
then you can actually, you know,
get change on the table. 100% is

735
00:33:03,970 --> 00:33:06,410
that I was speaking at an event
this morning, It was a business

736
00:33:06,420 --> 00:33:09,930
thing, but you know, they were
saying this pretty roomful of

737
00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:12,270
quite wealthy people and one of
them said, you know, I'll be

738
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,390
happy to pay more tax and you
know, for, for better public

739
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,010
services.
Well that's fine, you can say

740
00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:20,850
that, but I'm just telling you
that Kiss Starmer is, if he

741
00:33:20,860 --> 00:33:24,090
becomes Prime Minister, will
become only the 4th Prime Labour

742
00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:27,380
leader ever to have gone from
opposition to.

743
00:33:27,390 --> 00:33:30,300
Government 15 saying isn't it
when you think four, yeah.

744
00:33:30,410 --> 00:33:31,870
Let me, let me get out of the
house.

745
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:37,050
I put this in the book 3rd 21
Old Etonian Prime Ministers in

746
00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:41,270
History. 47 Labour.
You'll be the 7th Labour.

747
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,490
Only four that have gone direct.
Yeah, from opposition to

748
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:47,550
government.
Now many of those who have tried

749
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,500
and failed, it's they, they,
they were going to put your

750
00:33:51,510 --> 00:33:53,440
taxes.
Up yeah and and I suppose the

751
00:33:53,450 --> 00:33:55,700
the other problem, I guess
again, lots of people listening

752
00:33:55,710 --> 00:33:58,880
to this they they remember Keir
Starmer, you know in 2019 or

753
00:33:58,890 --> 00:34:02,160
2020 when he came in, you know,
had a big job to change the

754
00:34:02,170 --> 00:34:03,740
party, but he made a lot of
promises.

755
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:06,040
He said of things because he
needed to get voted as the

756
00:34:06,050 --> 00:34:07,630
leader of the party.
And to do that you've got to

757
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,900
flirt much more with the left of
the party, which we know because

758
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:11,780
the membership so much over on
the left.

759
00:34:11,850 --> 00:34:15,260
But so in, in terms of trying to
increase integrity and be

760
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:18,150
against lying, and when I talk
to my children, sometimes I feel

761
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:20,800
like it's an insult to say that
MP's are like load on the

762
00:34:20,810 --> 00:34:22,550
playground because you know
what, children on the playground

763
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:23,840
are better behaved half the
time.

764
00:34:24,050 --> 00:34:26,920
But when I talk to my kids about
the importance of telling the

765
00:34:26,929 --> 00:34:30,760
truth and being transparent, you
know, it's really hard because

766
00:34:30,770 --> 00:34:33,580
even when I look at my politics,
you know, I'm, I'm sympathetic

767
00:34:33,590 --> 00:34:35,560
with Starmer.
I'm going to vote Labour.

768
00:34:35,570 --> 00:34:38,960
I want a Labour government.
But I can see how people can

769
00:34:38,969 --> 00:34:41,460
legitimately say, well, you know
what he said he was going to

770
00:34:41,469 --> 00:34:43,480
have this massive green policy
and he said that he was going to

771
00:34:43,489 --> 00:34:44,940
do this.
And, you know, he supported

772
00:34:44,949 --> 00:34:47,340
Corbyn back then.
So where, where, where do you

773
00:34:47,350 --> 00:34:49,580
think that line is?
When I'm talking to my kids,

774
00:34:49,590 --> 00:34:52,350
what can I say to them in terms
of they're lying bad.

775
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,880
But you know, real life is more
complicated than that.

776
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:58,390
Yeah, I, I think he would.
What he, I think, would want you

777
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:05,830
to say is that he wasn't lying.
He was making a set of proposals

778
00:35:05,900 --> 00:35:09,290
that at the time he felt with
the right thing to do.

779
00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:11,290
Yeah.
And because the economy has

780
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:13,710
changed so much, because the
country has changed so much,

781
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:16,470
he's and also because he does
want to get elected.

782
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,990
He's had the, he's had to
compromise, if you like.

783
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,500
He's compromised with the
electorate, which is part of

784
00:35:22,510 --> 00:35:25,690
what democracy is about.
We just interviewed Hella

785
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:27,630
Thorning Schmidt, the former
Prime Minister of Denmark.

786
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,050
She was making the point that
because of their political

787
00:35:30,060 --> 00:35:32,290
system, they've never had a
majority.

788
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:34,110
You know, it's always
compromise, it's always

789
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,550
coalition.
So you have to kind of do that.

790
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:41,470
So I, I, I think that where a,
but I, where I agree with you.

791
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,750
If Labour get in and for
example, do put taxes up

792
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,040
straight away or do increase
borrowing straight away when

793
00:35:47,050 --> 00:35:49,010
they said that they won't,
that's going to be a big

794
00:35:49,020 --> 00:35:50,200
problem.
Yeah, it's gonna be a big.

795
00:35:50,210 --> 00:35:52,130
Problem at least he's doing it
before the election is what I

796
00:35:52,140 --> 00:35:53,430
say to people who have that
argument.

797
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,280
And you know, he's not, he's,
he's very much at this point

798
00:35:56,290 --> 00:35:58,870
trying to win votes and he's
doing so on the back of being

799
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,050
fiscally responsible and not
over promising.

800
00:36:01,060 --> 00:36:04,080
So I, I completely get it.
Just just a couple of things I

801
00:36:04,090 --> 00:36:07,220
wanted to ask about because you
mentioned lowering the voting

802
00:36:07,230 --> 00:36:10,560
age now something I think it
puts us in line again, you put

803
00:36:10,570 --> 00:36:13,060
in your book about in Wales and
Scotland, you can be 16 in

804
00:36:13,070 --> 00:36:15,740
certain votes, in certain votes
to, you know, put your name

805
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:19,060
forward.
I, I just, again, I am for this

806
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,890
policy.
I, I agree with it because I

807
00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:24,000
think it has to come in tandem
though, with education and, and

808
00:36:24,090 --> 00:36:26,400
people being taught about it
because almost similar to what

809
00:36:26,410 --> 00:36:28,460
you said about compulsory
voting.

810
00:36:28,540 --> 00:36:30,990
Well, what's the point unless we
actually going to teach people

811
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,210
what it's about.
But I'm just going to put it to

812
00:36:33,220 --> 00:36:34,410
you.
I want to know what you think

813
00:36:34,420 --> 00:36:36,570
because I've had people say it
to me and I don't know what to

814
00:36:36,580 --> 00:36:38,770
say in terms of I don't feel
like I've got a leg to stand on

815
00:36:38,780 --> 00:36:42,030
because this lowering of the
voting age is gonna massively

816
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,910
favour a Labour government in
the future.

817
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,620
In terms of, yeah, the younger
voters tend to be more left.

818
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:47,810
There might be Green, they might
be.

819
00:36:47,820 --> 00:36:49,530
Let them.
Tell you that but but at the

820
00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:53,710
moment, you know issues like the
environment issues like Gaza,

821
00:36:54,260 --> 00:36:57,950
you know it's I don't think it's
ever granted it's like, you know

822
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,430
a decade ago certainly when we
first came into power in 1997

823
00:37:02,820 --> 00:37:07,670
and through quite a long time
thereafter you would just you

824
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,630
know if we'd have sort of had
made some changes to favour

825
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,160
Scottish people people have said
oh you're doing that because

826
00:37:15,170 --> 00:37:18,210
Scotland always votes Labour
yeah right then suddenly they.

827
00:37:18,220 --> 00:37:20,510
Didn't, and it's very.
True, you can't.

828
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,140
You can't assume that the young
people are always gonna be

829
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:26,020
labour.
And the other thing I know it's

830
00:37:26,030 --> 00:37:30,120
like, for example, you know, I,
I, you could argue that I, I

831
00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:33,450
used to feel sometimes like, you
know, some of the stuff that we

832
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:37,670
did, for example, on gay rights
and, and, and I used to get

833
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,030
really pissed off.
I met somebody who was gay and

834
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,750
then said to me, you know, I'm,
I'm a Tory and which was

835
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,370
unreasonable because I was
basically thinking, ohh, because

836
00:37:46,380 --> 00:37:47,790
we did something for the gay
community.

837
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,530
You should sort of, yeah, you
know, thanks, mam.

838
00:37:49,540 --> 00:37:51,130
That's not, that's not a life
works.

839
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,810
And it's the same with young
people.

840
00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:58,230
Once the voting age lowers and
1617 year olds start to vote,

841
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,530
they're the reason I support it,
because I think it's a way of

842
00:38:01,540 --> 00:38:05,750
saying to people, you've got the
responsibility now to think

843
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,050
about it a bit more.
Yeah.

844
00:38:07,140 --> 00:38:08,670
And I and I think that will
happen.

845
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,690
I think, let's be honest, if you
lower the voting age in schools,

846
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,970
surely the education system has
got to adapt.

847
00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:15,300
To that if.
Children have to be in school

848
00:38:15,310 --> 00:38:17,070
until 18.
There's an automatic two year

849
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,680
crossover.
There's no teacher.

850
00:38:18,690 --> 00:38:22,860
There's no way you would just
like, OK, yeah, it would, it

851
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:25,130
would be, it would be, you know,
down a down there.

852
00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:26,890
It would, it would happen
basically down the line because

853
00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:29,050
you know, a lot of teachers want
to do it even earlier just to

854
00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:32,070
get a life, you know, Example.
Well, there listen, there is

855
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,880
this don't approve of this, by
the way, but there is a sort of

856
00:38:35,890 --> 00:38:37,490
school of thought.
He says you should lower the

857
00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:40,720
voting age to five.
And then what happens is that

858
00:38:40,730 --> 00:38:42,700
the discussion takes place in
the family.

859
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:44,740
And so now I'm not sure I
approve of that.

860
00:38:45,170 --> 00:38:47,700
But I certainly think that a
number of my daughter Grace,

861
00:38:47,710 --> 00:38:50,760
when when she was, you know,
teenagers, probably about 14.

862
00:38:50,770 --> 00:38:53,060
And I used to say I definitely
like the voting age.

863
00:38:53,660 --> 00:38:55,660
And she said, dad, you know,
loads of my friends don't know

864
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:58,000
anything about politics.
And I said, yeah, but you know,

865
00:38:58,010 --> 00:38:59,710
they might know more if they
thought they had to take it a

866
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,460
bit more seriously.
And added to which, let's go for

867
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:04,230
a walk now.
Let's meet some people aged

868
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,670
40506070 and 80 and let's see
how much they know about.

869
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:08,870
Policy that falls down
completely.

870
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,880
What I will say is on the
lowering the voting age, I think

871
00:39:10,890 --> 00:39:14,210
one of the reasons why I'm so
massively for it is because I

872
00:39:14,220 --> 00:39:18,050
was 17 in the 2010 election.
So I'm looking at it and that

873
00:39:18,060 --> 00:39:20,370
that election.
I don't know, I'm making this

874
00:39:20,380 --> 00:39:22,030
up, but statistics maybe can
prove me right.

875
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,770
It felt like it had the biggest
single terrible impact on the

876
00:39:25,780 --> 00:39:28,830
livelihood of young people
because my tuition fees tripled

877
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:32,200
my, my, my standard of life.
I, I think in general, if you

878
00:39:32,210 --> 00:39:34,500
look at house prices and you
know, everything that's happened

879
00:39:34,510 --> 00:39:37,260
with the economy since austerity
measures, you know, doctors,

880
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:39,700
everything like that.
I look at it and I just think, I

881
00:39:39,710 --> 00:39:42,300
wish, and I know at the point I
would have had something to say

882
00:39:42,310 --> 00:39:44,220
about it.
And I basically was.

883
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:46,440
We slept walked into that
austerity measure and it just

884
00:39:46,450 --> 00:39:49,380
completely ruined it. 100%
hundred.

885
00:39:49,390 --> 00:39:52,420
Percent Well, what I wanted to
do my I usually have a co-host

886
00:39:52,430 --> 00:39:54,600
Hayden with me, so it's just me.
So our usual listeners are

887
00:39:54,670 --> 00:39:56,490
probably, you know, very
grateful that he's not here, to

888
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:59,000
be honest with you.
But he did have one question

889
00:39:59,310 --> 00:40:01,470
that he wanted me to ask you
because he's the classic

890
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,220
apathetic.
But he's gonna vote Labour

891
00:40:03,230 --> 00:40:04,530
because he does hate what's
going on.

892
00:40:04,540 --> 00:40:07,070
He wants change, but he's not
very political at all.

893
00:40:07,210 --> 00:40:09,830
Yeah.
The very simple question, if you

894
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:12,180
were in government again for
this Labour government right

895
00:40:12,190 --> 00:40:14,190
now, or any government
whatsoever, and you came into

896
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,430
power on July the 5th, what
would you want to be doing

897
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,250
first?
Your first three things.

898
00:40:19,260 --> 00:40:20,980
And it can be to do with
education or it can be in

899
00:40:20,990 --> 00:40:22,990
general.
What would you be advising the

900
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:23,670
Prime Minister?
Right.

901
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,340
Let's fix this.
Alistair Campbell.

902
00:40:25,420 --> 00:40:31,130
Wants to do this.
Well the money if it was the

903
00:40:31,140 --> 00:40:33,420
first if you if you give me 3.
Yep.

904
00:40:36,380 --> 00:40:38,800
I really do think we've got to
repair the damage that Brexit

905
00:40:38,810 --> 00:40:42,520
has done.
So I would want him to work on a

906
00:40:42,530 --> 00:40:44,820
much, much closer relationship
with the European Union.

907
00:40:44,830 --> 00:40:50,550
I I'd want him to take on the
populism that is going to follow

908
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,610
a Tory defeat.
I think in relation to

909
00:40:54,620 --> 00:41:00,160
education, I'd actually want to
see a very clear signal that

910
00:41:00,170 --> 00:41:02,690
education was going to be right
up the priority list.

911
00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:05,180
Yeah, in a way that I don't
think we've really seen that in

912
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:08,560
our position.
And then I think he's gotta

913
00:41:08,740 --> 00:41:11,310
he's, you know, you do have to
intellection, you do have to

914
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,350
focus on the things that the
public have that, you know,

915
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,350
they're sending the message.
The message they're sending is

916
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,770
they want the economy fixed and
they want the NHS fixed.

917
00:41:18,780 --> 00:41:22,440
Yeah, yeah.
But I'd, I'd like to see if, if

918
00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:25,780
so, that's kind of what I think
would say, if I, if I could say

919
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:29,660
few other things that maybe I'd
really like to see sport given a

920
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:36,740
much greater place.
I would like to see, I would

921
00:41:36,750 --> 00:41:39,560
like to see alongside lowering
the voting age, compulsory

922
00:41:39,570 --> 00:41:41,810
voting.
I see that they're backing

923
00:41:41,820 --> 00:41:44,120
compulsory voter registration,
which is a good thing, but I'd

924
00:41:44,130 --> 00:41:45,440
like to see them go further than
that.

925
00:41:45,450 --> 00:41:47,590
Yep.
And then the other thing I'd

926
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,900
like to see greater devolution,
greater powers for local

927
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:52,660
authorities and greater powers
for more elected mayors.

928
00:41:52,670 --> 00:41:55,140
I'd like to see that.
I think the one, the one thing

929
00:41:55,150 --> 00:41:57,520
of our political system, the
modern development, I think has

930
00:41:57,530 --> 00:41:58,960
really been good, has been
elected.

931
00:41:58,970 --> 00:42:00,000
Mayor.
Yeah, definitely.

932
00:42:00,310 --> 00:42:02,160
So I'd like to see that as well.
Yeah, no.

933
00:42:02,170 --> 00:42:03,000
Excellent.
Brilliant.

934
00:42:03,050 --> 00:42:05,000
Well, you know what, Alistair?
I'm not gonna keep you any

935
00:42:05,010 --> 00:42:06,430
longer.
I really appreciate your time

936
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:07,580
and.
What's on my?

937
00:42:07,590 --> 00:42:09,710
Plate What I will say is very
quickly, you know, if you were

938
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:11,380
in school, just read, read the
books.

939
00:42:11,390 --> 00:42:13,340
They're really, really good and
they're just a nice stepping

940
00:42:13,350 --> 00:42:15,880
stone.
I think an opinion free

941
00:42:15,930 --> 00:42:18,680
introduction to politics, which
I think is exactly what every

942
00:42:18,690 --> 00:42:20,960
primary school and secondary
school needs for their children.

943
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:24,960
Right, Hayden.
So that that was the chat.

944
00:42:24,970 --> 00:42:26,840
What do you think?
Really, really enjoyable.

945
00:42:26,850 --> 00:42:28,980
I actually listened through it
twice in the end because I was,

946
00:42:28,990 --> 00:42:30,300
I was really interested the
first time.

947
00:42:30,310 --> 00:42:32,880
The second time I wanted to go
back, go back and write down a

948
00:42:32,890 --> 00:42:34,280
few notes.
But firstly, I just want to say

949
00:42:34,290 --> 00:42:35,840
a massive thank you to Alistair
coming on.

950
00:42:35,850 --> 00:42:37,660
I really, really appreciate.
I wasn't even there, but I

951
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:40,230
really, really appreciate.
His time he was really nice,

952
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:42,820
really nice, really
approachable, just a was a

953
00:42:42,830 --> 00:42:44,620
lovely guy.
So yeah, I could tell.

954
00:42:45,050 --> 00:42:47,000
First thing I want to bring up,
right, and this isn't

955
00:42:47,010 --> 00:42:48,750
particularly in order of the
podcast, it's just things.

956
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,020
That come, yeah, sure.
So he made me we're just rethink

957
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:54,800
some of the things.
I think now in a previous

958
00:42:54,810 --> 00:42:56,730
episode, you remember when we're
talking about Jeremy Corbyn and

959
00:42:56,740 --> 00:42:59,270
I got a bit heated saying I was
like Jeremy Corbyn, I'm going to

960
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,560
take some of that back, right?
Because one of the things I said

961
00:43:01,570 --> 00:43:04,600
was I think Jeremy Corbyn is the
only nice politician, the only

962
00:43:04,610 --> 00:43:06,560
genuine politician.
And I'm even after the episode,

963
00:43:06,570 --> 00:43:07,560
you were like, do you really
mean that?

964
00:43:07,570 --> 00:43:10,110
I was like, not really.
I just got a bit heated like in

965
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,080
that moment.
But Alice was, well, you

966
00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:14,700
actually, I think challenged him
about how a lot of people.

967
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:16,380
And I think you were kind of
thinking of me when you said.

968
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:18,320
This I was, I'll be honest, I
was speaking exactly.

969
00:43:18,330 --> 00:43:20,700
A lot of other colleagues will
say, ohh, all politicians are

970
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:22,630
the same.
And I will, I will say that sort

971
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,240
of thing.
But I'm probably gonna stop

972
00:43:24,250 --> 00:43:27,440
saying that because I really
liked his point about, well, if

973
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:31,160
it wasn't Hillary Clinton, yeah,
got in in America, would America

974
00:43:31,170 --> 00:43:33,010
be the same?
Obviously not be different.

975
00:43:33,020 --> 00:43:35,130
They're different politicians.
And I think it's a really good

976
00:43:35,140 --> 00:43:36,740
point to make.
So I want to start by saying

977
00:43:36,810 --> 00:43:39,960
definitely challenge my opinions
a little bit and how I think

978
00:43:39,970 --> 00:43:44,040
about stuff and made me just
rethink a little bit about how I

979
00:43:44,050 --> 00:43:46,920
think about politics as someone
who's not as into it as you, but

980
00:43:46,970 --> 00:43:49,260
on the fringe of like, I'm still
interested a bit.

981
00:43:49,610 --> 00:43:51,840
I think it's really
understandable how someone who

982
00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:55,160
hasn't really got an interest
politics, like it's, you know,

983
00:43:55,170 --> 00:43:57,580
you cannot have an interest in
things, but understand a bit

984
00:43:57,590 --> 00:43:58,930
more.
And I think that's the vibe of

985
00:43:58,940 --> 00:44:00,760
this whole thing.
And I think a lot of adults, by

986
00:44:00,770 --> 00:44:03,150
the way, he mentioned this would
would honestly benefit from

987
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,810
reading his book for teenagers.
It's so digestible and it's

988
00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:07,900
just, it's full of facts.
And like, this is literally how

989
00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:09,500
it works.
And this is who is involved.

990
00:44:09,570 --> 00:44:12,520
This is how you voted in.
And, and I think a little bit

991
00:44:12,530 --> 00:44:15,080
more knowledge might hopefully
cost some like conspiracies and

992
00:44:15,090 --> 00:44:16,440
stuff like, ohh, they're all in
it together.

993
00:44:16,450 --> 00:44:19,650
They're all just one big BLOB.
And it's like, honestly, if you

994
00:44:19,710 --> 00:44:22,120
just look at the Conservatives,
right, who are in charge at the

995
00:44:22,130 --> 00:44:24,300
minute, there's about seven
different types of people.

996
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,810
They've got your Boris, your
oldie tonight, you said there.

997
00:44:26,860 --> 00:44:29,990
But like he hosts a podcast with
Rory Stewart, who also worked in

998
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,890
the Conservative government.
And if you sit and listen to

999
00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:34,830
him, it's it's honestly, as
someone who's my whole life been

1000
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,160
so anti Tory, I really like Rory
Stewart, who's a Conservative.

1001
00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:42,010
So maybe, you know, if I'm an
adult with these presuppositions

1002
00:44:42,020 --> 00:44:44,320
about what people are like just
because of the colour they wear.

1003
00:44:44,330 --> 00:44:45,170
Their hair.
Yeah.

1004
00:44:45,180 --> 00:44:46,310
Yeah.
What kids gonna think?

1005
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:47,410
No, actually, there's power.
And what?

1006
00:44:47,420 --> 00:44:49,090
Their parents.
You read those books, didn't

1007
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:51,310
you?
And because obviously he was

1008
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,750
talking about how he tried not
to be biassed in the right.

1009
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,260
He was trying to present a fair
representation of of just being

1010
00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:59,900
interested in politics rather
than this is what I think kids

1011
00:44:59,910 --> 00:45:01,820
like.
Get into what I believe, what I

1012
00:45:01,830 --> 00:45:03,000
say.
You know, Gander or?

1013
00:45:03,010 --> 00:45:04,440
Something, and I get that and I
respect that.

1014
00:45:04,450 --> 00:45:06,780
And I think if you were ever
going to write a book about

1015
00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:08,720
politics, it was going to be
taken seriously.

1016
00:45:08,990 --> 00:45:11,880
For.
Children, I mean, yeah, it has

1017
00:45:11,890 --> 00:45:14,490
to be that.
And I think the more neutral the

1018
00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:16,180
better in terms of it actually
being.

1019
00:45:16,190 --> 00:45:18,390
Accepted so why why do you think
that is the case then for

1020
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:19,380
children?
Because I think both our

1021
00:45:19,390 --> 00:45:21,360
instincts immediately like yeah,
of course it has to be.

1022
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:23,750
But that was that's without me
even thinking about it for two

1023
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,110
seconds.
So if we were to flesh this out

1024
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,920
a bit, yeah.
And think about in school,

1025
00:45:26,930 --> 00:45:28,140
right.
So let's say let's say we're

1026
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:29,600
reading this book in school.
Yeah.

1027
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:31,960
And you spoke about it earlier.
You're a bit afraid almost of

1028
00:45:31,970 --> 00:45:33,020
putting your personal opinion
on.

1029
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:33,840
Yeah, yeah.
Why?

1030
00:45:33,850 --> 00:45:35,760
Why?
Why is it so important then?

1031
00:45:35,770 --> 00:45:38,330
Because what you would tell,
right?

1032
00:45:38,340 --> 00:45:41,200
You would tell the children in
your in your class, I run a

1033
00:45:41,210 --> 00:45:43,320
business.
It's great to run a business.

1034
00:45:43,330 --> 00:45:45,240
I think everyone should think
about running a business.

1035
00:45:45,250 --> 00:45:46,600
Wow.
And you're really selling the

1036
00:45:46,610 --> 00:45:48,080
fact that you personally own a
business.

1037
00:45:48,090 --> 00:45:50,000
Someone else doesn't has a
perfectly fine life.

1038
00:45:50,010 --> 00:45:52,820
But you know, why would you
think it's OK then to be like,

1039
00:45:52,830 --> 00:45:54,880
yeah, you should run a business.
Why don't you be entrepreneurs?

1040
00:45:54,890 --> 00:45:57,350
Someone else might be saying you
know, you should do service, you

1041
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,140
should go into something like
nursing or something.

1042
00:45:59,190 --> 00:46:00,780
Why?
Why is that different then to?

1043
00:46:00,790 --> 00:46:01,720
Because with.
Politics.

1044
00:46:01,730 --> 00:46:05,710
I think that analogy is dipping
into the world of capitalism,

1045
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,520
sure, and the systems of
capitalism and how we can

1046
00:46:08,530 --> 00:46:11,190
encourage we we all want people
to buy our things because that's

1047
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:12,210
what that's the capitalist
model.

1048
00:46:12,220 --> 00:46:14,450
We all sell stuff and who
whoever sells the most is

1049
00:46:14,460 --> 00:46:19,100
winning a capitalism, right, But
democracy is is just is just a

1050
00:46:19,110 --> 00:46:21,610
different thing to me.
I think what's the point of

1051
00:46:21,620 --> 00:46:26,500
politics is to me, it's about
obviously there's two sides to

1052
00:46:26,510 --> 00:46:28,330
this, right.
When I'm when I'm teaching

1053
00:46:28,340 --> 00:46:31,950
someone about politics, it's
about teaching them to think for

1054
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,250
themselves.
And Alistair mentioned that a

1055
00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:34,960
lot.
He just wants people to think

1056
00:46:34,970 --> 00:46:36,320
and come to proper.
Conclusion.

1057
00:46:36,330 --> 00:46:38,470
Come to his conclusions and my
conclusion.

1058
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,700
But but you know his point, he
probably does deep down are we

1059
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:42,100
all want people to think like we
think?

1060
00:46:42,110 --> 00:46:43,900
Of course you did.
But he made a wider point of

1061
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:46,020
that.
Getting people into politics is

1062
00:46:46,030 --> 00:46:49,270
about getting them to think
about decisions that they can

1063
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:50,380
make that might affect the
country.

1064
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:50,850
Right.
Yeah.

1065
00:46:50,860 --> 00:46:52,280
And, And that to me is what
democracy is.

1066
00:46:52,290 --> 00:46:55,780
So when it comes to kids who are
extremely impressionable, yeah.

1067
00:46:55,790 --> 00:46:58,800
Yeah.
I don't want them to blindly

1068
00:46:58,810 --> 00:47:00,200
follow other people's opinions.
And.

1069
00:47:00,210 --> 00:47:03,230
And you can't say that without
including yourself in that.

1070
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:04,930
Yeah, of course I don't want
them to blindly follow my

1071
00:47:04,940 --> 00:47:08,940
opinion, My opinions, obviously,
I want them to come to the same

1072
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:12,600
sort of opinions that I've got
on a completely separate note.

1073
00:47:12,810 --> 00:47:15,170
But when I'm teaching about
politics and the importance of

1074
00:47:15,180 --> 00:47:16,940
democracy, I want them to be
logical thinkers.

1075
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:19,000
I want to be reasoned thinkers.
I want to them to think for

1076
00:47:19,010 --> 00:47:20,690
themselves.
So therefore, if there's going

1077
00:47:20,700 --> 00:47:24,000
to be a book in school, I think
it has to be that.

1078
00:47:24,170 --> 00:47:28,360
And it can't be, it can't be his
My political opinion that's got

1079
00:47:28,370 --> 00:47:31,180
a separate place, you know, But
if we're teaching kids about

1080
00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:32,300
politics, it's got to be the
first.

1081
00:47:32,310 --> 00:47:35,680
One I remember back in when I
first started teaching, so my

1082
00:47:35,690 --> 00:47:39,400
training year, so this would
have been 1516 was my training

1083
00:47:39,410 --> 00:47:40,860
year and it was towards the end
of the year.

1084
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:43,580
So it was in 2016, right?
And I remember it was during the

1085
00:47:43,590 --> 00:47:46,880
EUR, so in Euro 2024.
Now this is 8 years ago, EUR

1086
00:47:46,890 --> 00:47:51,130
2016, I had A, and one of my
last observations, I was in year

1087
00:47:51,140 --> 00:47:54,310
six in my year 6 placement and
it was in a PSHE lesson.

1088
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,980
And I remember thinking, wow,
OK, I could do one or two things

1089
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:59,890
here.
I suppose I could just go off

1090
00:47:59,900 --> 00:48:02,890
the script and do the next PSHE
lesson on the really boring kind

1091
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:05,220
of, you know, the plan that
we've got and it's just, you

1092
00:48:05,230 --> 00:48:07,250
know, it's gonna be a bit naff
basically.

1093
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,930
Or because, because it's PSHE,
PSHE as a teacher, I got a bit

1094
00:48:10,940 --> 00:48:13,340
more licence to kind of go away
and do something.

1095
00:48:13,350 --> 00:48:14,570
I think it's important to the
kids.

1096
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,150
And even back then in 2016, and
maybe this was to do with the

1097
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,210
Brexit referendum around that
time as well, I wanted to really

1098
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,830
teach the kids something they
have never been taught before.

1099
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,320
And I did a lesson on the
difference between rules and

1100
00:48:27,330 --> 00:48:30,180
laws.
And the idea was, you know,

1101
00:48:30,190 --> 00:48:32,380
touching upon Parliament and
actually learning what the law

1102
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:36,140
is and why in school we have
rules like, you know, don't talk

1103
00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:38,850
to your partner, but that's
breaking rules and having rules

1104
00:48:38,860 --> 00:48:41,770
are very different to laws and,
and what makes them different

1105
00:48:41,780 --> 00:48:44,240
and why are laws enshrined in
like, you know, the legal

1106
00:48:44,250 --> 00:48:46,800
service and and and it kind of
turned into a lesson all about

1107
00:48:46,810 --> 00:48:48,640
Parliament.
And I taught the kids about

1108
00:48:48,650 --> 00:48:49,380
Parliament.
Yeah.

1109
00:48:49,390 --> 00:48:52,980
And I remember I had that
teacher buzz and and I think

1110
00:48:52,990 --> 00:48:55,700
this is the point I wanted to
make about people like politics

1111
00:48:55,710 --> 00:48:58,210
is now fair enough.
I'm interested in politics.

1112
00:48:58,260 --> 00:49:01,250
Yeah.
So I had this teacher buzz of

1113
00:49:01,340 --> 00:49:04,290
I'm not going in there thinking,
right, this is my politics

1114
00:49:04,300 --> 00:49:05,310
there.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna

1115
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,630
indoctrinate these kids, which a
lot of people seem to think for

1116
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,350
some reason it's going on in
school today.

1117
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,140
Now we've we've barely got time
to teach the curriculum.

1118
00:49:11,150 --> 00:49:13,010
Don't worry, we're not
indoctrinating children.

1119
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,270
That's not happening for a.
Start no one is.

1120
00:49:15,380 --> 00:49:17,410
I, I think, I think there's some
people who are and I think it's

1121
00:49:17,420 --> 00:49:18,490
a problem.
There's a huge problem.

1122
00:49:18,500 --> 00:49:19,410
I don't think you should do
that.

1123
00:49:19,420 --> 00:49:21,010
I really don't.
And maybe we can talk about in a

1124
00:49:21,020 --> 00:49:24,440
second, but with my law and
rules lesson, I really stripped

1125
00:49:24,450 --> 00:49:26,150
it back.
I was a brand new INQ, and I

1126
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:27,340
almost didn't have that.
OK.

1127
00:49:27,530 --> 00:49:30,500
And I just thought, I'm going to
teach them about, you know,

1128
00:49:30,510 --> 00:49:32,430
there are 650 MP's in the
country.

1129
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:33,690
Yeah.
How many people you walk down

1130
00:49:33,700 --> 00:49:34,760
the street do you think know
that?

1131
00:49:34,830 --> 00:49:35,500
Yeah.
Not many.

1132
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:37,160
Many.
And like, just just knowing the

1133
00:49:37,170 --> 00:49:38,350
makeup of how.
Yeah.

1134
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:39,810
Who decides who the Prime
Minister is?

1135
00:49:39,820 --> 00:49:41,500
Well, we don't actually vote for
a Prime Minister.

1136
00:49:41,570 --> 00:49:43,730
You vote for someone to
represent your area.

1137
00:49:43,770 --> 00:49:44,840
Yeah.
And then if they're part of a

1138
00:49:44,850 --> 00:49:47,390
party, they can be in charge.
And then they're their leader

1139
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:48,620
becomes Prime Minister.
Sure.

1140
00:49:48,630 --> 00:49:49,760
So.
So this whole idea, this

1141
00:49:49,770 --> 00:49:53,130
intricacy is how it works.
I I think it's really important

1142
00:49:53,140 --> 00:49:55,400
to teach kids that.
And I would never, ever be

1143
00:49:55,410 --> 00:49:58,640
against teaching them.
They're which will cogs of our,

1144
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,710
you know, Constitution, which is
unwritten.

1145
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:03,690
We don't have a written one like
America, but the way it works

1146
00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:06,800
and the way our lives are
literally affected massively.

1147
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,390
The only way we're gonna get rid
of apathy is from the ground up,

1148
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,430
really.
And our future knowing about

1149
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,150
what it is that they are
actually voting.

1150
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,490
On so a couple of things then.
So you and Alice are talked

1151
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:20,200
about the whole idea of lowering
the voting age right to 16 and

1152
00:50:20,210 --> 00:50:22,390
then you talked about the
crossover, the fact that kids

1153
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,510
will still be in school.
It kind of puts this pressure on

1154
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:26,780
the government to maybe include
something in the national

1155
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:28,780
curriculum about politics
because they're kind of there's

1156
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:31,220
there's a big crossover now.
So my first question to you, and

1157
00:50:31,230 --> 00:50:32,980
I think I already know this, but
I'll lead on to another one.

1158
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:35,720
Do you think politics should be
taught in school?

1159
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,080
Yes.
And, and when we say politics,

1160
00:50:39,090 --> 00:50:42,760
we need to be very clear.
We mean the institutions and how

1161
00:50:42,770 --> 00:50:44,210
they work.
Yeah, the system.

1162
00:50:44,220 --> 00:50:49,890
I think it is insane to me that
you would leave school, be able

1163
00:50:49,900 --> 00:50:53,170
to vote in the summer if there
was an election and there just

1164
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:55,990
isn't at least something that
just tells you how it works.

1165
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:56,470
Yeah.
Yeah.

1166
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,680
At the very, very, very least, I
know that we talked about this

1167
00:50:58,690 --> 00:51:00,430
before about the school prepared
for real life.

1168
00:51:00,500 --> 00:51:02,570
And there's a lot of stuff you
can argue in the curriculum,

1169
00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:06,390
like we should learn how to pay
taxes, but in the most intrinsic

1170
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,620
basic level, we wouldn't have
taxes if we didn't have a

1171
00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:09,490
government.
Yeah, sure.

1172
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:11,010
Just.
I just think that that to me is

1173
00:51:11,020 --> 00:51:14,130
one of the, you know, I would
want anyone walking down the

1174
00:51:14,140 --> 00:51:18,220
street who is being able to vote
to know what they're.

1175
00:51:18,230 --> 00:51:20,630
Actually have had the
opportunity at school to have

1176
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,440
picked up that knowledge.
Everyone, listen, can I give you

1177
00:51:22,450 --> 00:51:23,390
an example of this?
Yeah.

1178
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:24,840
So I was talking recently, I
won't say who it was.

1179
00:51:24,850 --> 00:51:28,910
I was talking to someone who is
around my age and and they, they

1180
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,460
asked me really genuinely.
And I and I and I5 years ago, I

1181
00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:34,790
might have laughed, but this
time I was, I just explained to

1182
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,650
them, like how it works.
They'd heard someone say, if you

1183
00:51:38,660 --> 00:51:42,420
don't vote, it's a vote for
whoever's in power, right?

1184
00:51:42,430 --> 00:51:44,670
So there's this whole saying
like if you don't go and vote,

1185
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,080
you're helping the IT, it means
you're helping the majority,

1186
00:51:48,090 --> 00:51:49,980
right?
So whoever's in front, if you

1187
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:51,760
don't vote, you're just helping
them stay in power.

1188
00:51:51,770 --> 00:51:55,220
Because if you're the, the idea
is, let's say the conservatives

1189
00:51:55,230 --> 00:51:56,990
are in charge.
You don't want them to be, but

1190
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,330
you don't really fancy any of
the others.

1191
00:51:58,340 --> 00:52:00,940
You just don't vote.
That what people say is, oh, if

1192
00:52:00,950 --> 00:52:03,140
you don't vote, that's a vote
for the conservatives, OK,

1193
00:52:03,150 --> 00:52:05,220
right.
And and the point is, you need

1194
00:52:05,230 --> 00:52:07,400
to make your voice heard if you
really don't want them in

1195
00:52:07,410 --> 00:52:08,690
charge.
But for something else, yeah.

1196
00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:11,060
Yeah.
They genuinely thought that if

1197
00:52:11,070 --> 00:52:14,350
you didn't go to vote, they
would cast a little and an

1198
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,900
automatic Yeah, they would cast
a literal vote in your name for

1199
00:52:16,910 --> 00:52:17,780
whoever's winning.
Yeah.

1200
00:52:17,790 --> 00:52:19,230
And they'd get it added to their
totals.

1201
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:22,530
And it was a completely genuine,
genuine sentiment because they

1202
00:52:22,540 --> 00:52:23,570
heard I.
Guess from that.

1203
00:52:23,580 --> 00:52:26,390
You don't vote, it's a vote for
the other people extrapolate and

1204
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:27,900
and they don't know how it
works.

1205
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:29,790
They don't know the actual
system where, you know, if you

1206
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,070
don't vote, it just doesn't
count.

1207
00:52:31,220 --> 00:52:34,470
And because of that, they've
heard this what is a just a

1208
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,590
generic statement that isn't a
falsehood online.

1209
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,890
And they've literally thought
that their vote would go to a

1210
00:52:38,900 --> 00:52:41,900
party they didn't want.
And the idea of that existing,

1211
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:43,750
obviously it's going to in small
pockets, but this is an

1212
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,050
intelligent person I was talking
to.

1213
00:52:45,060 --> 00:52:47,050
Yeah.
Who just was told this thing and

1214
00:52:47,060 --> 00:52:48,240
thought, OK, that must be how it
works.

1215
00:52:48,250 --> 00:52:49,100
So I guess I'll vote.
Yeah.

1216
00:52:49,110 --> 00:52:50,400
Yeah.
And it seemed insane to me to

1217
00:52:50,410 --> 00:52:53,470
think, OK, that there's got to
be something we can do, you

1218
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,060
know, whether you like politics
or not.

1219
00:52:55,130 --> 00:52:57,510
Do you know what I don't?
I'll be honest, guys, I'm gonna.

1220
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:58,700
I'm gonna admit something right
now.

1221
00:52:58,710 --> 00:53:01,320
Primary school teacher.
I don't really like geography.

1222
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:02,760
I don't really like it that
much.

1223
00:53:02,810 --> 00:53:04,580
I don't actually find it
interesting to learn about

1224
00:53:04,590 --> 00:53:05,940
rivers and deltas and things
like that.

1225
00:53:05,950 --> 00:53:07,340
But you know what?
It's part of the curriculum.

1226
00:53:07,350 --> 00:53:08,380
A teacher.
A teacher, Kids.

1227
00:53:08,450 --> 00:53:09,100
Yeah.
What?

1228
00:53:09,110 --> 00:53:10,400
Rivers deliver it.
Yeah.

1229
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:13,080
Yeah.
Is it more important that a

1230
00:53:13,090 --> 00:53:16,470
child knows how they're the tree
literally works that they live

1231
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,210
in, or that a river might
meander around a rock?

1232
00:53:21,110 --> 00:53:23,450
There's an argument, it's not
for me and you say no, there's

1233
00:53:23,460 --> 00:53:25,880
an argument to say though, yeah,
not saying we should get rid of

1234
00:53:25,890 --> 00:53:28,280
one, but there's an argument to
say that it is quite important

1235
00:53:28,290 --> 00:53:29,090
to know.
Yeah, kind of.

1236
00:53:29,100 --> 00:53:30,660
Again, it goes back.
I always come back to this

1237
00:53:30,670 --> 00:53:32,990
episode, which obviously a
favourite of mine, where we

1238
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,860
talked about what should be
teaching schools, We talked

1239
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:36,400
about taxes and all that sort of
stuff before.

1240
00:53:36,410 --> 00:53:40,050
Didn't we had that whole debate?
I don't know, it's a tricky 1.

1241
00:53:40,060 --> 00:53:43,750
So I, I think maybe you can you
can help me out with this

1242
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,000
thought train, right?
I think there is a massive,

1243
00:53:46,010 --> 00:53:51,520
massive risk that all will
actually end up doing is just

1244
00:53:51,570 --> 00:53:54,060
exposing our internal biases as
teachers.

1245
00:53:54,070 --> 00:53:59,100
Yeah, as a general population
and just kind of saying what we

1246
00:53:59,110 --> 00:54:01,640
want to say about particular
parties and our own political

1247
00:54:01,650 --> 00:54:04,960
ideas, if we are opened up to
the idea of teaching politics in

1248
00:54:04,970 --> 00:54:07,280
school.
You know what, I completely

1249
00:54:07,290 --> 00:54:09,260
understand that worry.
And I think that's where, you

1250
00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:11,720
know, we're not specialists,
especially people are apathetic

1251
00:54:11,850 --> 00:54:14,170
to then going to the teacher.
Actually, you've got to teach

1252
00:54:14,180 --> 00:54:16,430
politics now.
It's got to be this really above

1253
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,020
board.
Extremely, you know, your

1254
00:54:19,030 --> 00:54:20,950
opinion is taken out of it in
every way possible.

1255
00:54:21,020 --> 00:54:22,770
Hmm.
Number one, they might not know

1256
00:54:22,780 --> 00:54:24,050
about it cause they won't talk
about it.

1257
00:54:24,100 --> 00:54:25,940
So I've gotta teach themselves.
And then number two, they can't

1258
00:54:25,950 --> 00:54:28,150
then put their own spin on
stuff, which I think is part of

1259
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,260
the job.
I, I, I don't actually buy what

1260
00:54:30,270 --> 00:54:32,980
you've just said in terms of
there's a worry that teachers

1261
00:54:32,990 --> 00:54:35,020
won't put their opinion across.
I think it's part of our

1262
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:38,660
professional ability to do that.
And the way I think I always

1263
00:54:38,670 --> 00:54:40,830
think about is Ari.
Yeah, I am an.

1264
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:42,450
Atheist I was just thinking
about.

1265
00:54:42,550 --> 00:54:44,900
An atheist.
I teach a lesson on Sikhism.

1266
00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:47,680
I don't preface everything by by
the way, kids, I don't believe

1267
00:54:47,690 --> 00:54:49,500
in this.
I don't believe in this.

1268
00:54:49,570 --> 00:54:50,300
No.
What?

1269
00:54:50,370 --> 00:54:52,450
The creation story.
When I'm doing Christianity,

1270
00:54:52,460 --> 00:54:53,880
seven days.
I think that's a load of

1271
00:54:53,890 --> 00:54:55,140
baloney.
I don't do that.

1272
00:54:55,210 --> 00:54:58,540
When I'm teaching RE, what I do
is I say we're gonna learn about

1273
00:54:58,550 --> 00:55:00,740
Christians this week.
Christians believe.

1274
00:55:00,790 --> 00:55:02,200
Yeah, blah blah blah blah.
The easy way to.

1275
00:55:02,210 --> 00:55:03,840
Get around, you know, we're
learning about different

1276
00:55:03,850 --> 00:55:05,330
cultures.
If you're a Christian, you can

1277
00:55:05,340 --> 00:55:07,240
tell me about what you.
Believe what I'm saying is going

1278
00:55:07,250 --> 00:55:08,670
to do with me goes deeper than
this though, right?

1279
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,160
What I'm saying is I, I, I
wouldn't be able to guarantee

1280
00:55:11,170 --> 00:55:15,450
that either you or I don't very,
very subtly, passively, without

1281
00:55:15,460 --> 00:55:18,900
even realising it,
subconsciously get our opinions

1282
00:55:18,910 --> 00:55:21,900
across more strongly when
teaching RE, for example, or if

1283
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:24,170
we were teaching politics.
I think there is a risk that

1284
00:55:24,180 --> 00:55:27,840
that's, that that internal
subconscious bias will come out

1285
00:55:27,850 --> 00:55:29,720
whether we like to think we're
doing it or not.

1286
00:55:29,810 --> 00:55:31,720
That's, that's kind of what I'm
getting at really.

1287
00:55:31,730 --> 00:55:34,360
I don't think many teachers
would outright just would abuse

1288
00:55:34,370 --> 00:55:36,970
that system to be like, Hey, I'm
going to make your vote, you

1289
00:55:36,980 --> 00:55:40,160
know, reform, I'm going to make
you all vote Tory or whatever.

1290
00:55:41,250 --> 00:55:43,440
I mean, if anything, if
anything, the way, you know,

1291
00:55:43,450 --> 00:55:45,750
teachers are generally more or
less anyway.

1292
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,100
So you know that they would,
they would immediately be

1293
00:55:48,110 --> 00:55:50,030
imagine the Tories probably
wouldn't like the idea of doing

1294
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,600
all this and having it in
schools because it would more

1295
00:55:52,610 --> 00:55:54,810
likely if there's going to be
bias, will go towards the left.

1296
00:55:54,820 --> 00:55:56,850
But yeah, funny story I
mentioned in the in the chat,

1297
00:55:56,860 --> 00:55:59,350
Alistair, I think about the
child who was parroting the fact

1298
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:00,690
Boris is an amazing leader,
right?

1299
00:56:00,700 --> 00:56:03,750
Yeah, either funny enough, I had
a message this week from someone

1300
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,470
on the on Instagram.
By the way, you can follow us at

1301
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,370
teach sleep repeat podcast on
Instagram and messages about

1302
00:56:08,380 --> 00:56:09,510
anything.
We'll get back to you.

1303
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,530
And someone messaged me this
week in in a flipped way.

1304
00:56:12,580 --> 00:56:14,550
So I talked about how I had to
bite my tongue because my

1305
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,410
personal opinion is Boris was
dreadful.

1306
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,640
Yeah, but I'm in the classroom.
It's wholly inappropriate at

1307
00:56:19,650 --> 00:56:21,520
that moment for me to have an
argument of an 8 year old child

1308
00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:24,130
about Boris being yeah, let them
have it and crack on.

1309
00:56:24,140 --> 00:56:25,950
It's nothing to do with what
we're doing in the classroom.

1310
00:56:26,460 --> 00:56:28,970
But I had I had a flip version
from this person was really

1311
00:56:28,980 --> 00:56:30,810
interesting.
And this person had said,

1312
00:56:30,820 --> 00:56:35,010
someone in year two had said why
is Rishi Sunak taking all our

1313
00:56:35,020 --> 00:56:37,570
money as if in a negative
context?

1314
00:56:37,580 --> 00:56:39,890
I don't like him because he's
taking all our money away.

1315
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,220
And the teacher was telling me
this story as if it was funny

1316
00:56:43,230 --> 00:56:45,010
because they agree with this
child.

1317
00:56:45,020 --> 00:56:46,410
Yeah.
And again, equally in that

1318
00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:49,270
moment, it would be, it would be
very easy for a teacher to

1319
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,210
listen to that and go, I know,
right?

1320
00:56:51,220 --> 00:56:53,760
Isn't it awful?
And that might be what you just

1321
00:56:53,770 --> 00:56:55,070
naturally do and you laugh it
off and.

1322
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,900
You cause you do agree.
But is that, is that the same as

1323
00:57:00,030 --> 00:57:01,700
arguing with a child about Boris
being bad?

1324
00:57:02,010 --> 00:57:03,740
You're you're.
Grabbing because you know what?

1325
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:06,200
You're I bet your reaction was
probably to close that

1326
00:57:06,210 --> 00:57:07,780
conversation quickly and move on
from it, right.

1327
00:57:07,790 --> 00:57:11,100
But if, but let's just say in
that moment he said about

1328
00:57:11,110 --> 00:57:13,100
another politician that you do
like being good.

1329
00:57:13,210 --> 00:57:16,080
You might have without thinking
about this whole scenario, you

1330
00:57:16,090 --> 00:57:19,720
might have responded differently
in a more in a more biassed way

1331
00:57:19,730 --> 00:57:22,590
that that that affirms what?
Yeah, no, it's I guess that's

1332
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:23,730
what I'm saying.
I don't know if that's a huge

1333
00:57:23,740 --> 00:57:24,600
risk or not.
Yeah.

1334
00:57:24,660 --> 00:57:26,310
Is that just part of the parcel,
you know?

1335
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:27,960
Yeah.
Is it, do you know, have a bit

1336
00:57:27,970 --> 00:57:29,830
of yeah.
Is it better to have that?

1337
00:57:29,890 --> 00:57:32,210
But also people do just
generally about politics a bit

1338
00:57:32,220 --> 00:57:34,290
more because I think, you know,
we could draw a line, couldn't

1339
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:35,470
we?
When when we're talking about

1340
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,230
teaching them the systems, it
could very much, it could very

1341
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,490
easily be that it's strictly,
you teach them the systems.

1342
00:57:41,500 --> 00:57:43,890
You don't even mention parties.
You genuinely don't, you know?

1343
00:57:43,900 --> 00:57:45,400
Don't.
You might say they exist.

1344
00:57:45,410 --> 00:57:48,140
Parties exist and they and they
are they for different things.

1345
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:49,880
But you don't go into what
Labour do and what

1346
00:57:49,890 --> 00:57:51,730
Conservatives.
You don't actually do it at all

1347
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,400
and you just say this is the
system appropriate.

1348
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,000
Home or at school.
And I suppose you're saying

1349
00:57:57,070 --> 00:57:58,720
that's very much a home thing.
Yeah, Is.

1350
00:57:58,730 --> 00:58:01,300
What I think the more we give if
if if it came out and said yeah

1351
00:58:01,310 --> 00:58:03,380
in the national curriculum now
what we need to do is teaching

1352
00:58:03,390 --> 00:58:05,680
about the top five parties at
the time that might change over.

1353
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:08,800
I think it just opens a doorway
for for teachers to be

1354
00:58:08,810 --> 00:58:11,880
scrutinised and and probably
yelled at and stuff by parents

1355
00:58:11,890 --> 00:58:14,780
who don't agree with that.
I don't so it's not our job

1356
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,980
tricky one.
It's not our job to convince

1357
00:58:16,990 --> 00:58:18,690
someone to vote for a political
great though.

1358
00:58:18,700 --> 00:58:20,810
He really got me thinking like
you and Alice, to talk about

1359
00:58:20,820 --> 00:58:23,180
that I was having this.
Whole we are, we are, you know,

1360
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:24,920
putting together contracts about
him replacing.

1361
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:26,610
Yeah, I know.
I'm sweating.

1362
00:58:26,620 --> 00:58:28,330
Yeah, yeah.
So we can go out the number one

1363
00:58:28,340 --> 00:58:30,300
as well because Charles, I don't
know.

1364
00:58:30,340 --> 00:58:33,650
But you know, I in general, it
was it was a really nice chat.

1365
00:58:33,660 --> 00:58:35,690
I wanted to talk very briefly
with you about lowering the

1366
00:58:35,700 --> 00:58:38,240
voting age because I did, I did
talk to Alistair about it.

1367
00:58:38,250 --> 00:58:40,470
And you said about how the
crossover in school, yeah, might

1368
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,650
at least, well, at least four
schools to maybe doing assembly

1369
00:58:42,660 --> 00:58:44,870
and say, by the way, guys, you
can literally vote now.

1370
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,430
So again, here's how it works.
Here's how the voting system

1371
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:48,770
works.
You know, you can choose not to

1372
00:58:48,780 --> 00:58:49,990
vote.
That's part of this democracy

1373
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,060
though, blah, blah, blah.
But the the point I was trying

1374
00:58:53,070 --> 00:58:55,210
to make to him, but like, even
though I think it's a good idea

1375
00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:57,960
because, again, I wish I had 16
because I had a voice about

1376
00:58:57,970 --> 00:58:59,360
going to university.
Hmm.

1377
00:58:59,410 --> 00:59:02,290
And especially now with the, you
know, policies like national

1378
00:59:02,300 --> 00:59:05,160
service and stuff, it does seem
insane that, you know, you can

1379
00:59:05,170 --> 00:59:08,540
be 1617 about to be forced to go
to do national service.

1380
00:59:08,550 --> 00:59:10,120
Yeah.
But without having a single say.

1381
00:59:10,130 --> 00:59:11,400
And we've actually think that's
right.

1382
00:59:11,410 --> 00:59:12,480
I know.
Yeah, I don't know.

1383
00:59:12,490 --> 00:59:17,080
It seems crazy to me, but I do
look at it and I think, OK, is

1384
00:59:17,090 --> 00:59:19,780
again, is, is there a danger in
doing that?

1385
00:59:19,850 --> 00:59:22,400
That people in school might be
canvassed in a certain way

1386
00:59:22,450 --> 00:59:23,900
because there's left-leaning
people?

1387
00:59:23,970 --> 00:59:27,350
And also the fact that, like we
said, are children more

1388
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,950
generally left wing anyway.
So in doing this right, whether

1389
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,670
we whether we think there's a
justification or not, if the

1390
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,830
shoe was on the other, if the
shoe was on the other foot, is

1391
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:36,570
that the same?
Yeah.

1392
00:59:36,580 --> 00:59:37,530
Yeah, I said it right way
around.

1393
00:59:37,540 --> 00:59:38,490
You did.
It's funny.

1394
00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:40,550
I notice it when I get it right.
Yeah, when I get it wrong I just

1395
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:42,490
ignore.
It but let's say there was

1396
00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:44,870
something was completely
justifiable, but it helped the

1397
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,130
right wing policy.
I know I'd probably be the first

1398
00:59:48,140 --> 00:59:49,780
person to say, ohh, that's
convenient, isn't it?

1399
00:59:49,860 --> 00:59:52,490
Even if they had a really good
so we, you know, lowering the

1400
00:59:52,500 --> 00:59:56,730
voting age, is it a good thing
or, or is it we're doing the

1401
00:59:56,740 --> 00:59:58,730
same thing where, you know, the
other way round?

1402
00:59:58,740 --> 01:00:01,860
We'd be really annoyed.
But because Oz personally are

1403
01:00:01,870 --> 01:00:04,190
more leaning towards what the
children think and the younger

1404
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:06,440
people we're just go, ohh, well,
you know, it's fine.

1405
01:00:06,450 --> 01:00:07,900
We're.
Justified, I think it's a double

1406
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:10,190
edged blades.
Yes, children are generally more

1407
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:11,350
left.
That's just proven

1408
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:12,860
statistically.
They are generally more on the

1409
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:14,560
left side of politics, but
they're also the most

1410
01:00:14,570 --> 01:00:16,350
impressionable people in our
society.

1411
01:00:16,580 --> 01:00:19,010
So, you know, I think there's
two ways of looking at it.

1412
01:00:19,020 --> 01:00:20,460
It's OK, you lower the voting
age.

1413
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,290
All right.
Tory parents will be having a

1414
01:00:22,300 --> 01:00:24,670
feast for the ones that want to,
you know, have that impression

1415
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,270
on their children.
But equally, you know, same

1416
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,900
Labour around impression and
Germany left.

1417
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:34,030
I think it would have a a higher
yield towards the left.

1418
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,330
But I don't actually think it's
a bad idea by itself.

1419
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:38,980
I think it has to come with.
Education.

1420
01:00:38,990 --> 01:00:40,070
What do you think about?
Alice said.

1421
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:41,810
About You can't.
You can't even assume they're to

1422
01:00:41,820 --> 01:00:44,150
be left wing like.
He said you can't assume Labour,

1423
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:45,990
didn't he?
Yeah, yeah, He said you can't

1424
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,750
assume that vote Labour.
And I think that's, I don't

1425
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:48,810
know, He can correct me if I'm
wrong.

1426
01:00:48,820 --> 01:00:50,290
I feel like that's a slightly
different point.

1427
01:00:50,340 --> 01:00:52,730
I I, I'd love to hear him to
correct me on this.

1428
01:00:52,740 --> 01:00:55,630
But I do feel like it's
undeniable that that children

1429
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,950
are on average, more left wing.
You know that's been proven

1430
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:00,650
again and again when you do like
mock run.

1431
01:01:00,660 --> 01:01:02,760
Through now vote Labour.
No, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1432
01:01:02,770 --> 01:01:03,980
Great.
Depends on the party they think

1433
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:05,300
that represents them.
But.

1434
01:01:05,310 --> 01:01:08,360
As a more right wing party you
might be a bit like, yeah bloody

1435
01:01:08,370 --> 01:01:08,960
annoying.
Isn't it?

1436
01:01:08,970 --> 01:01:09,660
Yeah.
I don't know.

1437
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:12,330
I feel funny about.
I feel like, I feel like anyone

1438
01:01:12,340 --> 01:01:14,990
in Labour would, would be
absolutely being like, yeah,

1439
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,830
let's get, let's get the voting
age down because it, it probably

1440
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,530
is gonna.
Benefit unsurprising that soon.

1441
01:01:20,900 --> 01:01:22,410
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know.

1442
01:01:22,420 --> 01:01:24,910
So I guess overall then thinking
about, we talked about, you

1443
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,910
know, the rollovers and the
classroom, I think it has to be

1444
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,570
as much as possible taking your
opinion out of it in the same

1445
01:01:30,580 --> 01:01:32,230
way you have to take your
opinion out of your religious,

1446
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,300
you know, or even your
scientific stuff sometimes.

1447
01:01:34,310 --> 01:01:36,120
Depending on what?
School, you're already religious

1448
01:01:36,130 --> 01:01:37,490
school and you're teaching
evolution.

1449
01:01:37,580 --> 01:01:39,750
There might be some parents who
don't like that, you know, like

1450
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,000
where is that line?
But I guess to finish off and,

1451
01:01:43,010 --> 01:01:44,930
you know, teachers listening
right now, even parents or

1452
01:01:44,940 --> 01:01:47,660
anyone just thinking about, OK,
you know, sending my kids to

1453
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:49,640
school, I need to make sure
they're getting a fair hearing

1454
01:01:49,650 --> 01:01:52,040
and they're not indoctrinated
and all this kind of stuff,

1455
01:01:52,090 --> 01:01:53,720
which I think we did say
earlier.

1456
01:01:54,110 --> 01:01:57,120
Unfortunately, I do think it
does happen where there are some

1457
01:01:57,130 --> 01:02:00,020
teachers who will take it upon
themselves to maybe cross that

1458
01:02:00,030 --> 01:02:01,660
line.
You can decide whether lots of

1459
01:02:01,670 --> 01:02:04,500
aspects, not just politics,
exactly that in any aspect.

1460
01:02:04,510 --> 01:02:07,870
Exactly.
Would you say having taught now

1461
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:13,140
for 8-9 years as a child in a
school being taught about

1462
01:02:13,150 --> 01:02:16,340
politics, is it worse than ever
for children right now?

1463
01:02:16,450 --> 01:02:18,780
Is is this point in time right
now?

1464
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,150
You know, is the answer.
They get into politics and they

1465
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,810
need to be putting their head in
the game and learning all about.

1466
01:02:25,820 --> 01:02:28,100
It.
Or is it just so bad that you

1467
01:02:28,110 --> 01:02:30,830
know apathy is the only the only
solution that they can't?

1468
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,270
Both these books are nice,
they're cool idea, but until

1469
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:35,510
things change from the top down,
what is the point?

1470
01:02:35,590 --> 01:02:38,760
No, I'm the 1st to be cynical
sometimes, but I don't think so.

1471
01:02:38,770 --> 01:02:40,530
I think there's always, there's
always hope.

1472
01:02:40,580 --> 01:02:43,320
I think I think that there could
be some really good changes over

1473
01:02:43,330 --> 01:02:45,540
the next four years.
I don't think that.

1474
01:02:45,550 --> 01:02:49,070
I think everyone in Labour and
in anyone into politics has said

1475
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,590
that there's not going to be any
quick fixes and that we are in a

1476
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,420
state, our country is in an
absolute state and and there's

1477
01:02:54,430 --> 01:02:55,580
going to be some horrible
priorities.

1478
01:02:55,590 --> 01:02:58,290
But I do, I do see hope.
I think children could, I think

1479
01:02:58,300 --> 01:03:00,500
the next generation, children
could grow up and actually have

1480
01:03:00,550 --> 01:03:02,420
a moment where they're like,
ohh, politics did a good thing

1481
01:03:02,430 --> 01:03:04,490
for me.
Like you mentioned how there was

1482
01:03:04,500 --> 01:03:07,640
enormous period of life where it
was like, I can't point to one

1483
01:03:07,650 --> 01:03:08,940
single thing that politics have
done.

1484
01:03:08,950 --> 01:03:11,120
Like there's like a really big
benefit to my life.

1485
01:03:11,430 --> 01:03:13,920
I think that could change.
I do, I have hope for it.

1486
01:03:13,930 --> 01:03:14,990
If that's the question, you.
Asked.

1487
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,390
No, no, you're right.
It's, it's basically, you know,

1488
01:03:17,770 --> 01:03:21,510
Alistair seems very hopeful.
He seemed very much and he says

1489
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,730
this a lot when he's talking in
this podcast and stuff.

1490
01:03:23,740 --> 01:03:26,830
He he says we have if we're in
politics, we have to be trying

1491
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,380
to share hope.
Yeah, we can't, because his

1492
01:03:29,570 --> 01:03:32,610
podcast host Rory has written a
book about his time in politics

1493
01:03:32,620 --> 01:03:33,740
and.
It's your son.

1494
01:03:34,490 --> 01:03:38,020
He was going to mention that I
didn't is essentially really

1495
01:03:38,030 --> 01:03:41,220
scathing of housing, he said.
It's it's an awful place to be.

1496
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:43,430
It ruined me mentally.
You can't get anything done.

1497
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,040
There's people who don't know
what they're doing.

1498
01:03:45,050 --> 01:03:46,600
Must be voted in.
So frustrating.

1499
01:03:46,610 --> 01:03:48,060
So.
So there's like a bit of a

1500
01:03:48,130 --> 01:03:49,540
dichotomy there between the two
of them.

1501
01:03:49,550 --> 01:03:52,160
Yeah, we've both been in there
and and, you know, are always

1502
01:03:52,170 --> 01:03:55,030
very much like it's just all,
it's dreadful.

1503
01:03:55,100 --> 01:03:57,450
Whereas Alice is like, no, no,
no, but you know, come on, we

1504
01:03:57,460 --> 01:03:58,760
can change this.
We can do this.

1505
01:03:58,770 --> 01:04:01,340
So I guess the question is, can
we do it?

1506
01:04:01,350 --> 01:04:04,130
Do do you think it's worth our
time as teachers putting this

1507
01:04:04,140 --> 01:04:05,490
groundwork in?
Do you think it's going?

1508
01:04:05,500 --> 01:04:07,020
To be 100%.
I think the only thing we can

1509
01:04:07,030 --> 01:04:09,500
possibly do to change the system
is educate kids better.

1510
01:04:09,510 --> 01:04:11,620
That's it.
You know, Labour's all been

1511
01:04:11,630 --> 01:04:14,560
about that forever.
Educate kids properly.

1512
01:04:14,660 --> 01:04:16,030
I do.
I still think that's the answer.

1513
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,180
I think we don't do it.
You know, we get governments in

1514
01:04:18,190 --> 01:04:21,010
place that just strip that back
and it's like, OK, let's reflect

1515
01:04:21,020 --> 01:04:23,230
on this for a second.
Can we go back to educating kids

1516
01:04:23,300 --> 01:04:25,500
properly and actually giving
them like food and pencils and

1517
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:26,700
stuff?
Because we stopped doing that

1518
01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:28,860
for some reason.
So much stems from it, doesn't

1519
01:04:28,870 --> 01:04:30,800
it?
I I look at education and health

1520
01:04:30,890 --> 01:04:32,530
and I think almost everything
stems.

1521
01:04:32,540 --> 01:04:33,970
From Yeah 100.
Percent right, If you get

1522
01:04:33,980 --> 01:04:35,390
education right, yeah, your
next.

1523
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,640
One, educate the next generation
properly and give them a bit

1524
01:04:38,650 --> 01:04:42,400
more input on politics.
Then maybe, maybe we won't have

1525
01:04:42,410 --> 01:04:45,130
a society that's so easily
brainwashed or at least they'll

1526
01:04:45,140 --> 01:04:47,170
be huge population where it's
just like that swing vote.

1527
01:04:47,180 --> 01:04:50,030
You know, there's there's just
it's just so easy to manipulate

1528
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,120
people as we've seen over the
last 10 years.

1529
01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:55,350
Maybe if we have a generation
that so he's manipulated and I

1530
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:56,430
feel like that's already
happening.

1531
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,280
I don't know that's that that
could that could be good.

1532
01:04:59,290 --> 01:05:00,210
You know, it's happened.
It's gonna.

1533
01:05:00,220 --> 01:05:01,830
Happen.
Yeah, OK, well-rounded off there

1534
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,330
I don't know Hayden how the
listeners are gonna cope with me

1535
01:05:04,340 --> 01:05:07,390
and you not doing our rambling
catch up for a 10 to 15 minute

1536
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,190
next I mean I don't know how you
gonna go because luckily for us

1537
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,610
we were scraping around for
things we talk about residential

1538
01:05:12,620 --> 01:05:14,550
next time.
Yeah, I'm gonna catch up I've

1539
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:16,430
got a few things I want to talk
about and have a new government

1540
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:17,990
by then we will have.
Yeah, I know we will.

1541
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,370
That's crazy, crazy.
And if you hear from from

1542
01:05:20,380 --> 01:05:22,690
Alistair from podcast, perhaps
you just tuning in because you

1543
01:05:22,700 --> 01:05:24,450
know who's on.
If you've got this far, my

1544
01:05:24,460 --> 01:05:26,160
goodness, thank.
You for listening and if you

1545
01:05:26,170 --> 01:05:28,440
wanna hear two teachers just
talk about stuff sometimes.

1546
01:05:28,510 --> 01:05:30,130
Sometimes we're a bit funny.
Ohh.

1547
01:05:30,140 --> 01:05:32,190
Sometimes we're a bit funny.
Yeah, sometimes we talk about

1548
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,520
really serious stuff and it's
mostly around education.

1549
01:05:34,530 --> 01:05:36,500
So you know TuneIn.
TuneIn yeah, good job.

1550
01:05:36,510 --> 01:05:38,120
We did that right at the very
end of the podcast.

1551
01:05:38,270 --> 01:05:41,020
We're also really, really,
really bad at running a podcast.

1552
01:05:41,030 --> 01:05:43,780
We forget to plug ourselves all
the time but have a sponsor.

1553
01:05:43,790 --> 01:05:45,960
We we do free sponsors sometimes
for our mates.

1554
01:05:46,610 --> 01:05:48,340
And I mean, absolutely boiling
room.

1555
01:05:48,450 --> 01:05:50,780
And let's just talk about the
fact that my video stopped

1556
01:05:50,790 --> 01:05:52,960
working when I was about to
Campbell, the number one podcast

1557
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:54,860
in the UK is not even on the
video.

1558
01:05:55,170 --> 01:05:56,660
We got the.
Camera on my video overheated

1559
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because it's been so hard
because we don't live in a

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01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:00,990
studio or work in the studio.
Ohh guys, check out any other

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01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:02,200
episode other than this one and
we'll.

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01:06:02,210 --> 01:06:03,640
See you next time.
Bye, guys.