Ep 68: Should Private School Fees Include VAT?

0:00 And everyone, back to another episode of Teach Sleep. Repeat. My name is Dylan. And my name is Hayden. Hayden. Hayden, I'm. Very well. That was quick. Thank you. How are you? Good. Thank you. Not bad. Let's crack. On I was imagining, you know, day making a montage, right and I couldn't do it cause it's much worse making a montage of your intro because I reckon I could overlay like the last 60 episodes and like frame for frame, sound for sound. That's exactly the same. What do you? Think one of the benefits of my this personality trait of mine which the repetition needs to be exactly the same. When you go to order a Indian, you could order for me an Indian Curry. Probably you could say the introduction to this. Podcast I'll have a chicken tikka Madras this is you go on you probably have 20 how you feel yeah OK toll order you from start again if you're. Really drink and.

0:45 Anything, everything right you go in there, you'd say all could have a kind of have a either a singer or a cobra, depending on what they do. I'll be more slimmed yet, whatever's on tap. Whatever. That's what you do when you come over and jump on you. But ohh. And you'd be thinking, oh, I want more than everyone else. Yes. So let's just make sure I get the maximum here. Yeah. Can we have at least two Yep, Yep, Yep, and then come around you? The good thing about two each, by the way, is when people go, I'm not sure not should just get them in case because then I know I can get then you eat. Three or four. Yeah. And then it comes to the meal you like. Ohh. Look at the menu as if you don't know. Sorry. What part of the. I don't remember asking you to impersonate me. OK, sorry. I won't do that. I will actually, I'm just looking the menu because I already know what I want, but also come back to me. Come back to me, but I know everyone knows what you want, Dylan. And then you get a chicken taking address. Yep, with pilau rice.

1:32 Yep. And you would share it on your body If someone else was getting. I would, But you'd absolutely have your own Peshwari naan. Yeah. So there you go. There's your order. Every time. They were listening to this. Episode there was certain things on an Indian takeaway because you know, it's that classic Smithy thing where he's like, no, no, I've ordered it. Yeah, it's mine. There is certain things that are untouchables. Like when some honestly, when someone turns to me and says do you wanna share that on a bit of me dies inside because I don't want any single part of my Nan bread to be with anyone else other than me because no, because I've got in my head I know I'm going to eat it as I go right with my dish and I'm also going to as I go. There's a portion of that bread set aside for dipping. Because you get your little, you get a little dish, don't you?

2:13 If you Curry and you put your wacky chicken on your plate and there's this beautiful oily Curry sauce full of goodness and tastiness. That doesn't work as a sentence. Is it beautiful? Oily. The rest of that is the already void. No, Anyone who's on the team Curry knows that. That beautiful. What you do are you a sharer or are you a have my own meal I. Don't, but I did do a share once because I really, I really wanted to try something else, but I panicked that it's gonna be rubbish. Yeah, I know get chicken tikka Madras. It's gonna be a 7 1/2 out of 10 or an 8 out of 10 every week, every week. Like I go every week every time. But I did get a a Lambo owner and that was bloody lovely as well. So yeah, I'm, I'm sure people have really wanted that information for about two.

2:54 To three minutes in, we are going to tell you a story about school that's hopefully gonna make. You Ohh the teacher podcast. Yeah, yeah. So I hadn't the one of the teacher nightmares happened to me this week. I feel like this is a genuine fear of most people. I sat on a chair in front of the whole class and the legs gave way and it collapsed and I fell backwards and my legs rolled over my head and they all laughed so much and I laughed as well. But I was thinking, Oh my God, I can't believe this. Was a Childs yeah. Yeah, yeah, right. Charles Chair, we were watching a video, so I went to kind of go away from my teacher desk is right next to my screen. So rather than standing there looking at, I kind of went toward more towards the back middle of the room and sat on a spare. Chair and it just collapsed. And they all turned round and were like, and my legs are just in the air. And I held it for a minute.

3:39 I thought he got a relish in these moments. If you look too embarrassed, it's. It's almost like it will linger longer. Yeah. So I owned the moment, even though I was thinking for God's. Sake why is this happened? And I was like, OK, have a quick look, then look at the position. I mean, guys, before I get up, my legs are just in the air. The leg is completely. Your legs in the air. In the air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sorry again. Very, very embarrassing, but kind of funny. So you, at least it wasn't in the assembly like we had someone last year. Were you in the assembly? We, yeah, we had a guest speaker in. We had a guest speaker in going to talk to the kids. It was, it wasn't even like someone in school doing it. We had someone outside come in who was like a Team GB boxer. I'd come in one stop, Sat by year six, the worst year group to sit next to when you do anything like that. And honestly sat down in the chair, completely gave way. The whole assembly stopped.

4:30 Every like 400 people just turn. Ohh that's embarrassing, I didn't see it. I do remember being told about that and that's how that's pure embarrassment. Sorry, staff member, entire school. What? What's this going on about Police talk? Well, this one was quite sweet. OK, we had in year six, we have the police, the police, the police, someone comes in. Just an enigma. Yeah. Yeah. The police is in. Who's in the police? The police are in, they come in to do a little talk with the year sixes and it's mostly about transition because obviously police are a bit more involved in secondary schools. There's normally a community officer, at least in our area. I don't if that's normal, but a community officer kind of assigned to each school and he came in as our local feeder secondary schools like this. I'm the guy you're going to see around. Basically this is what it's all about. You might be feeling nervous about secondary school and. You should be the police are here. He walked around with this.

5:18 Hello. Hello. Hello. Yeah, just secondary school. So funny. Anyway, he just did this, did this talk and and during he had lots of questions with the kids and he was basically just trying to make me feel a little bit less anxious about going to secondary school. And it was weird. It was kind of like nothing to do with being the police for for most of this, but whatever. And he asked the kids at one point he was like, what were you miss from secondary school? One of the kids put that from secondary school, from primary. School got that wrong, didn't you? Said I'm one of the kids put their hand up when he asked her and her response was I'm going to miss Mr Stevens. And it was a really sweet moment. And she wasn't even taking the mic. No. And how much did you pay her for that? Was 20 lbs. Yeah. You like never mentioned the chair. Yeah, I I stole the the policeman's cluster of what's it called? Pepper spray.

6:01 Like urgent payment then. Yeah, Yeah. Seems like a fair, fair trade. Yeah, fair trade. Nice. Cool. So anything, anything else? Self indulgence. Tell me about this week. Well, I suppose you can move on to your boring week that's all about me. Honestly, I look back at the week we did a bit at the start, which again, we assume people wanna hear. Don't know if you do well, but anyway. And I thought, oh, what happened this week? And I had one of them really normal boring weeks. Great. We're moving on then, so. The only thing I did have was it was assessment week. And again, we think I remember saying this last year, you're in year 6. Assessment view is very different. You kind of do the Sats external gets sent off and you just kind of go on your own tangent. Then you're doing shows and stuff.

6:42 Yeah, 345 is like, it's just, it's just loving which we carry on maths and English obviously all the way through always and there's no discussion there. But we have random like assessment week in times 6 and always seems quite early. Always, always find it really weird when my kids are sitting a maths test and we haven't done angles yet, right, Because there is still a term left of the school year. So that's when you think about it, that's one sixth of their learning we actually haven't done before they sit the assessment. So when it comes to the assessment, had kids putting their hand up saying sorry, what does it mean? What's the name of this shape? Because we haven't learned about trapeziums yet. Yeah, we haven't done that. We haven't done that block yet. So I found that bizarre. That's just like a side note of when we test kits and stuff we haven't done yet. And then that is what they've got at the end of year four because that's their assessment grade.

7:26 It's very odd. Anyway, what I found hilarious was it it's always fun. The kids did really well on their test. I was really impressed. I was really, really happy with them because they tried so hard. But you have to remember sometimes they are 8, you know, they they are 8 years old. So there's the odd thing. It's just absolutely hilarious. And I'd one question, I put this on my Instagram and I guess it's not even your Instagram, my Instagram, because I'm everything you pop up. Really. And then I did a story. You did. We'll come on to that. But yeah, we did a test and I guess it was funny to start with and I was just like, that's funny when they just put a nonsense, especially in comprehension. So the the question was how far in advance should you book a party to to avoid disappointment?

8:06 This Yeah. So this, this this was off a text, which is an information text about booking a pool party for your children. So it was a non fiction text. And in in the text it said you should book at least a month in advance to make sure you get space. So the whole point was the the kind of language of booking in advance is something a lot of my year fours will have absolutely no idea what. That means. It's quite complex. It is quite complex, but but the saving grace was in the text. It used the exact same language, right? So, you know, even if maybe you were unsure is a comprehension skill is supposed to be like, well, as adults, we're reading stuff and there's always we don't know, but we kind of just take. Context If they hadn't used the book in advance and it would have been a little bit. It would have been testing vocab as well as they're like influence and or sorry retrieval. The question that they could just find that and I was like, fair enough, that's a skill and a bunch of them got it, but loads of them really randomly putting them out of money. Hmm.

8:59 And at first it was like, how far in advance should you book 8 lbs per child? And I was like, ohh, there's some and then someone else put 8 lbs per child and then someone else put £50 deposit and I was like, what is going on? Like I really, cause I really interest me if that kind of stuff. I try and Wrack my brains. I love misconceptions as a teacher I and that's why I like Maths I. Think Yeah, you wanna know what happened? Yeah, yeah. You wanna know the exact thought process that went through their brain to in order to address it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know what's your gut instinct there of how far in advance should you book to avoid disappointment? Why are they taking these numerical funny figures out of the? Texture. Well, first question, did they make those numbers up completely? Or no way from the text. So indifferent in different parts of the text. Those were the only things that are written as digits though. Yeah. So I'm thinking it's something to do with that now as well. Are they thinking it needs to be an amount because it says how much or how many maybe and they kind of just scanning for an amount and saying, well, I don't know what an. Amount question was how far in advance? Was yeah, I know, but just the how maybe maybe I've only exposed them to how questions.

9:55 Yeah, in the context of how many? Yeah. And my only thought was I haven't seen the text, so you can just that sounds wrong. But my thought was maybe somewhere in the text it said how much a month costs. Uh, no, it was. It was basically it was 8 lbs per child for bookings, right? And £50 deposit to get. Yeah, so those facts were right. Yeah, yeah, there's, there's those. They didn't make those monies. That's why basically when when I look at tests as a teacher, when children are put an answer down, there's almost 3 categories for answers in a test right now. Category one, they get it right and I'm like amazing. Category three is they just get it completely wrong or it's blank and I'm just like, they had no idea. But there is a category too, where actually as a teacher, I, I think I'm quite proud of the effort. And it's like you, there's all I say to them all the time.

10:36 They're gonna be questions and assess. You don't know. But what I'd love to see guys, you're putting a sensible answer. Yeah. So I in my head that counted to me as a sensible answer at least because I could see a thought process in their head of them saying, well, I don't know. It says how we've done how many? Maybe it's a number? It mentions a booking. Exactly. And it's to do with something like that. So they've taken the money, put it in and I was thinking, OK, it's the same favourite to avoid. Asked the question who? Right. Yeah, they get it completely wrong, but they put the name of a person from the text at least. Yeah. And and that's when I'm like, that's good, that's good, guys, That's good. Understanding good. Test technique, I, I reckon it's probably quite simple in terms of they just didn't remotely understand the phrase. How can advance, right? And they've scanned the question, like you said, the category two, they've really tried to look for something else in the question.

11:17 They know, they've seen the phrase that at the end something something the booking and they're like, ohh, OK, I know the booking costs money. Have not been asked that before I put how much the booking. Costs and funnily enough, two questions later, it was how much does it cost per child? Alright, so it was before that. That's my point. So you're absolutely right. They probably thought maybe it's that they got there and they're not old enough to think or they wouldn't have the same. Exactly that. Yeah. So that was really interesting to me. And just in general, I find marking assessments, I don't know about you, but any other teachers out there as well? I put it off and I put it off and put it off. Especially English comprehension, but with maths I do it immediately and I quite like it because I can just it's number, number, number, number. There's not really much scope for that.

11:59 Where is he saying with reading comp it's this answer. Ohh. By the way, here are five other options that are OK. And it takes a lot of mental load, I think. Yeah, I think maybe because I just really like maths as well. I don't know. Yeah, but I always do the same. I'm a massive great time. Immediately start getting them done because I want to see English. I'm like. Last time I'm gonna talk about before we move on is I introduced hate into something this week and I didn't realise I was introducing him to it and I knew it was the first time Hayden has ever had it was going to a butchers. So the reason why I knew it was Hayden's first time coming to the butchers was because we got to the we got to the window where they put the meat on the front and they have the prices on there and it goes that much for a sausage.

12:40 And I was like, hey, it's per kilogramme had no concept and the fact that they just weighed. Them bought them. I was like, how much was it again? You, Hayden, I've already told you three times it's on weight. There wasn't a prize. So ohh what this burger cost? Oh my God man, a £50 deposit for lamb Shank. Barbecue, better barbecue. And we got home and and then it was torrential. Torrential. Rain. Ohh, yeah, that's good. But you, you were saying about how just is it this day and age, maybe other people can help us, but you weren't expecting such lovely service from the butchers. I don't know if you guys experiencing this, maybe again it could be our area. Yeah, or the fact we, the fact you've never been in the butchers, because that's my.

13:21 Experience of Butcher But my experience of buying things in general over a counter is you're generally served by someone who does not have a stake in the business and they're probably quite young. Quite often they're not really interested. You just don't get much back these days is what I'm saying. And I'm used to that. I don't even care. Why would you? Yeah, they're getting paid minimum wage most of the times, I get it. Whereas in the butchers they were just extremely nice. There's like 4-4 blokes. I. Think they're all they're all butchers though. And they were just. Hi there. How you doing today? How good weekend. I'm just like, ohh, yeah. Hello. That's really. You seem genuine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it's because they all have a stake in, it's their butchers, you know, they they want customers to come back. Yeah, more than I guess I would when I worked at Tesco. Yeah, why would you care? You're basically here drawing a comparison between huge, massive corporations that have absolutely exploited capitalism to their own end to a nice small family. Ohh.

14:08 That's why we should support small family run businesses. Yeah, the problem is they usually cost more because they have. To yeah, it was quite expensive. Tonight, buddy, nice was nice. It was much better. OK, cool. Should crack on. We got two main things we want to talk about today. The title of the episode. I kind of my section. I suppose we'll come onto that towards the end. But before then, Hayden really wants to chat about something in the news, right? Yeah, let's do a Jingle, right, Dylan? You got your script ready this time. I got my script ready. Good. Let's talk private school. Third, third attempt. Let's talk private schools. Telling so in the news, probably seen the Labour government, not government yet. Labour when they maybe get into government. I'm thinking about adding VAT to private school tuition fees, Right? And there's a lot of backlash about it in the news now.

14:50 I put on Instagram story. I was an Instagram, guys. It's not just Dylan's account. Yeah, that was the second story in a year and a half, and it was really, really provocative. Really provocative, basically saying that how I feel about this, which is absolutely agree. We should be gonna be 18. Quite afraid. Neutral, right? Yeah. And then halfway through. Ohh. Think of the Barbie. I started taking the Mick in. I will tell you because the story is gone. I actually said ohh no we might have to go to ohh yucky state schools for the private schools anyway. So you think that it's a good policy? I I think it's a good policy. We'll get into the nitty gritty of why I think that is not. I haven't just listened to one source and be like, yeah, agree. I've really, really thought about this and I know I haven't discussed this with you on this because I want your kind of raw opinions. Yeah, I'm going to hit you with a few facts first, just stats just kind of ground this conversation and I'm going to see what you.

15:37 Think so These these are just these are just stats, right? These aren't like this is from a source. It's just how it is. Yeah, they're just kind of just random facts that are going to be useful for understanding the context of private school when we get to. And I think a lot of people actually don't have this. It's very ideological, this battle. So it'll be good for me and for probably people listening just to think, OK, well, what are the solid? Facts then exactly that right. So I'm gonna start with an average, alright. And and I really have and and I say average because the scope of private tuition fees is massive. Yeah, you think of Eaton and have massive tuition fees versus, I don't know, whatever your lowest. Well, Rishi's listening, so I hope you like. Ohh, I paid a lot more than that. Don't undersell my. Family. Yeah, same as you. Guys, I went without Sky TV for that. Yeah, exactly. So here are some averages. All right, so across the UK the average tuition fee for the year for a parent was £15,000.

16:23 OK. So about 5K. Big time. Something like that, yeah, roughly, yeah. And any of that, like I said, there are other, yeah, there are other amounts, but £15,000. Now, the state spend approximately £8000 per kit on a school. So you can compare those numbers because really what a parent is paying is what the school is spending on the kids. You're literally paying for it. So it's nearly double. So yeah, private schools spending nearly double on the on the child because of what? The parent, yeah. Compared to state schools, yes. That's important fact. Yeah, yeah. That's that my my initial instinct there is. I've never even thought about the fact that we have spending per kid. I know it sounds crazy. I've never thought about an amount of money for our child. That's really weird. Thing about school budget is based on how many. Kids.

17:06 Yeah, of course it is. It makes complete sense, That very length. Seeing it like written out is quite interesting. I see. Yeah. So another fact not really related to that but still important is that since 2010, in 2010, about 14 years ago, we have 14 years. So since 2010, the gap between private school spending per child, which we were just discussing, sure. And state school spending per child has actually doubled. So just the gap now. So that's what about an 8K gap right now? Yeah, So it was, I've got here. It was 3500. The gap to 8000. Wow. So that gap between what private schools have and what state schools have, that gap is? Massively gap, yeah, exactly. So prices have always spent more per child and you'd expect that I suppose, when you yeah, you would realistically. But for it to double in that.

17:51 That's right, the gap, the gap has got much bigger. Well, like what's what's driven out do you think? Is that down? Do you have any stats on like the what's private schools? Are charging. Well, I, yeah, I don't know why I can't tell you like why this happened, but I can tell you that there's been a 20% increase, right? Since 2010 again, yeah. There's been a 20% increase in real terms to the private school fees, right. So that includes inflation. So actually it's been more than just 20. If you look at the 20% figure, 10/20/10 figures is more than 20%. We're including inflation. It's gone up with inflation, lost 20% more. Wow, private schools cost a lot more now than they do. Yeah. So when you when they do, yeah. So Eva, there's one of two things happening there. Private schools right now, right, which is Eva, they're spending way more on a kid and and that that kid's education is getting a lot more provision than it than 90 plus percent of the population or private schools are taking a lot more profit than they used to. Yeah.

18:44 And I don't I don't want to pretend to be probably be different per school, right. Yeah, Yeah, almost definitely, Yeah. But that's that's just one more fact I was going to mention. Data. But it's so related that I just want it to be in your mind when you think about stuff, right? So despite this increase, private school numbers have gone up, right? So we haven't seen a dip. We, you know, we're not seeing private schools closed down. Sure. On the whole, we see the the numbers of children go to private school now are higher than they were in 20. 10 Is that due to population rise or is that? Don't know, I just want. To but it's it's not, it's not drastically gone down, it's not gone down by 20%. It's not gone down yet. We've not seen this massive like ohh no the loads of children. Leaving. So what you're saying is a 20% increase in in charging won't affect how many kids go to private? School, it hasn't over that. Time it probably should have should put VAT. So I just need to bear that in mind, that's obviously that's a longer period.

19:30 Of time, yeah, OK, that's they're really interesting facts, everything, yeah. With all of that context and perspective, right, I, I agree with Labour, I think we should be adding VAT to private schools tuition fees. Sure, all right. And I will go into why, but I kind of want to just get your, I don't want to influence it too much. I want to get your opinion on on Labour's plan because obviously a lot of people are not agreeing with. That right now I would say that 90% of the people I've seen not agree with it are people who went to or send their kids to private school. And that makes a lot of. Sense to me. Yeah, of course it makes. Sense. So that makes a lot of sense because if a government come in and literally say that if you want to continue your lifestyle, it will cost you thousands of pounds extra per year, that's obviously annoying, right? So I don't.

20:19 I'm going to preface this with I I completely understand why you would be pissed. Off there's like a user bias almost. Yeah, of course there isn't everything. In life, if they well in and said well actually teaches, you get this break, you get this cool thing that's because you're teachers, but now you don't get it anymore. We'd be annoyed at that. Yeah, because we're living. It my, my gut instinct to answer your question is I absolutely also think that it's well within the government's right to remove the exemption because I think what I need, what we need to think about it more is it's it's an exemption. It's not like they're just whacking down attacks on someone's, OK. If you wanted to go and get private healthcare, you'd have to pay VAT on your stuff. OK, So if you want to go and get private education, I think it's fair enough to say you need to pay it on that. It's it's the removal of a perk rather than the whacking of a brand new tax or.

21:07 Something, OK, keep that point in mind because the 1st and the biggest counter argument, which I think you're kind of already playing against here that I've seen online everywhere, you'll see this everywhere, right, is we're saving the government money by not sending our child to a state school, yet still paying tax that contributes. To it. That's the biggest one I've seen. So unpick that. OK my uncle is in his 50s and he's never had children. He's paid taxes whole life. Should he go back to the government and say I'm, excuse me, I haven't taken advantage of the schooling system because I don't have children? No, because you know how you should look at it? You went to school. You're paying back because you went to school. Yeah. So when you're paying tax for stuff, that's because you're paying back what you went to school. For your uncle went to private school. They went to private school, then he paid for it, and then he should have paid that on it.

21:50 Like my uncles. Also my my uncle. I don't know if this is true or not. He might go and buy a brand new car. Yes. Pave out on it. Hmm. Oh. Oh, but he's saving the trains from being overcrowded by getting a car. Yeah. So I was I was speaking to Rob Smith, funny enough about this, who's been on our podcast before, and he literally said founder, yeah, literacy shed founder. And he's really cool. He often shares stuff. He's very into politics. I think he shares a lot on his Facebook and we end up having a chat about about that. And he he made a really good point about the passive benefits of school as well. He was like, he was like, people just don't think outside the box in terms of even if you don't send your specific child there, let's say you can't even comprehend the idea of not having kids, which already, which already destroys the argument in my opinion. But you know, you sent your child to private school. I'm paying tax for other people's kids.

22:32 It's like, yeah. But do you know what you and your child will benefit from the wider society also going to school? Yeah. Not everyone can afford private school. So even you want 93% of the population to be uneducated. Yeah. And you think that somehow that's good. Yeah. At least I'm not paying for them. Yeah. And he was like, OK, well, next time, you know, if you're a business owner. Yeah. Next time you employ a bunch of people that go to private school. Yeah. You can thank the state school system. You contribute to that. And I really like that wider thing and it. And I guess it just made me think about the passive benefits of taxes. We can't start pretending about that. Tax is like this individualised. Yeah, we do for the services we use. It's never been like that. Yeah, my counter argument, the same sort of thing would be I go to the I use the NHS less than a lot of people. I'm not gonna start declaring cash. Back for it Well, yeah, you know, it's completely true Like I know people who are on basically lifetime prescription, right, Because they need that to survive day-to-day. OK do we then put do we whack attacks on them? Do I turn around to that person and say, well, I have a daily prescription that I need to stay alive that cost the taxpayer this amount of money?

23:35 That's disgusting. I mean, I'm giving them a tax break. Why on earth should I pay tax? Because that's not how society works. Quite simply. Yeah. And with education, it's the same thing. And I don't want to preempt your, your argument, Hayden, but one of the most annoying things I find, and it really riles me up when someone says this is, well, it's a tax on aspiration. I'm, I'm my I'm. I've got some aspirations. I work hard for my kids. Right. Listen, listen, everyone works odd, OK? Every assume everyone works hard. Obviously some people don't obviously assume everyone works hard because damn, a lot of the kids parents in my school work bloody hard. So it's very condescending to say, well, I work hard because let's look at this.

24:16 At the end of the day, whether you like it or not, if you can afford to, whether you're scrimping and saving as much as you want, you could scrimp and save massively to send your kids to school. I agree with I, I, I'm not saying you don't. Right. Yeah. But what I'm saying is that if you can find 15 grand a year to send your kid to school, you are not poor. There is no amount of scrimping and saving that 80% of the population could do to find 15 grand a year for their kid to go to school. Yeah. So when you're saying my kid goes to private school, it's because we, we give up other stuff like Rishi gives up his Sky television, which is £40 a month because. Because that's how we find our. Massive score piece of £15,000. People are making big sacrifices. They are. That's a fact. Like. That's I don't wanna ditch me now because it's. True, I speaking so I when I put this Instagram thing out, obviously quite a lot of people messaged back and it was really useful. Thank you by the way.

25:01 So for messaging back, some people agree with me, some people disagreed. So there's no way I can win in this conversation. I'm going to. I'm going to disagree with. You so sorry but we live in a society and you have your own opinion. Yeah, but I was saying but what was your point my? Whole point was that people do make sacrifices to go to school. I'm not gonna say you don't, but my point is if you have found 15 grand a year to send your child to school, yeah, you are not actually in a position where your life is. Really. Awful. Not it's, it's not. I also find it really, really, really, really condescending for those people when people use that argument. Yeah, we work really hard and we're making big sacrifices and there's sacrifices might be legitimate, it might not. It might not be just Sky TV or whatever. It could be because any holidays, you know, we, we, we don't go out for meals at restaurants. We we get lose a lot of other luxuries. Even and if you're comparing to someone who has the same household income right and like let's say you have the same household income you spent 15 grand and send your child to school and you've made sacrifices in that someone else with the same income is going on 6 holidays a year yeah you know or or it's got a.

25:59 Brand new card, Yeah or. You know, whatever it is that's more fair, I think to be like, well, OK, fine, but. That, but it's still not horrible. Yeah, exactly. With people who are actually living paycheck to paycheck, who don't have any luxuries anyway. Which is less than that. Yeah, on its own, because we've got to remember there's a huge, huge population of people in this country who already don't have any luxuries. Yeah. And they just about survive on the money they earn, right. And to them, it's like if someone said to them, sacrifice everything possible that you can so that you're like, you're on the minimum amount to survive, right? They still wouldn't be able to save up enough money for tuition fees. And that's the point. That's the comparison. So it's like you're not in the same boat, and people need to get that. I'm quite passionate about that, you know, You're saying I'm in the same boat.

26:44 No, you're not. If you can mind 8K15K10K whatever to send your kids to private school, you're just not in the same boat as people below so just stop. Saying it, yeah, just find it and, and, and to to me, one of the biggest things again, I say to people and I'm I'm more than willing. I've not had the conversations you've had. So my my opinions are probably much less been much less bashed up and formed. So be interesting for you to say another big thing for me is OK, let's say the average IS15K, right? Let's even look, let's just look at 10K, right? Let's just say it's 10K. You're finding 10K year and a 20% increase is going to back whack it up to 12 K. Never mind the fact I think private schools should be absorbing a bunch of this cost like most businesses do when it comes to that and they think about that especially if it's been raised by 20% over the last 15 years.

27:29 Ignore all of that. Let's say it goes from 10K to 12K. OK, two options. Option one, you can't afford the extra 2K OK cool. You just say 10K because it's a free school place for you to go to that will cost you nothing and you can get your kid into that school. So let's not pretend this is the end of the world for these people, OK? Yeah, No. But we can talk about, I can give you some. Yeah, Come. Back to you in a minute. Scholarships and things like that, I understand. But someone spending 10K a year and they've got to make that tough decision, which of course is not great for their child's gotta move schools. Ohh. I'm gonna, I'm gonna wipe my tears away with my £10,000 a year that I've saved because you've got a free school space now. OK, who's provocative now? No, but it's, but what I'm saying is that doesn't wash with me. You can come up to me and say that's annoying.

28:11 I don't wanna spend an extra 2K in tax a year and I'd be like, I understand that. Yeah, completely. Off you go. If if you, if you put, if you pretend that you're, you know your life's over because your kid can't go to state school. Are you saying life's over for 90% of population? Already I know that's the thing. It's another stat we've not really mentioned. I guess it probably have to start is that just over 93% of children in the UK go to state. School, like when I have the conversation, honestly, I'm like, you do know I went to state school, I had free school meals at school. I went to state school. You're essentially saying that my my life is so abominably awful, like I can't comprehend my kid possibly having the same experiences you had. Like Boris put out a TikTok or something and you saw it about and he was like, it's, it's not fair to take it away.

28:52 You know, We try. People want to give their children that leg up in society. Yeah. And I really just even hate. All that raises. What do you mean a leg up as we're saying we I want my child to trample on other people. Why don't I get what you're saying it it doesn't sound good in nature when you're saying a leg up is like, so you're saying the schools aren't good enough in that statement and that the only way to do well is you should you should go about other people. You should step on other people and you can do that by paying. I just don't. Like it and I shouldn't have to pay more for that privilege. Yeah, I shouldn't have to have actually. Yeah. What what are you on about? Honestly, I shouldn't have to pay the fair. Yeah, the literal law, like the going rate for everything that we do in this country. And I wanna come back to that point really quick because you, you said it and you kind of glossed over it. And I think it's so important, which is that the whole argument, We save the government money.

29:35 I flip it around, anyone says no, you don't. We save you money. The taxpayer saves you money by subsidising 20% of the cost. That's what's actually. Happening, yeah, the cost isn't. Here and at some point in the, in the past, we decided to, to say Nah, don't worry, the taxpayer will take pay 20% of that for you. There you go. So no, OK, we're getting rid of that now because you know what, I get it, some families, there will be some families that are pushed out of that bracket where they're already, you know, they are scrimping and saving and I get it. And they're making sacrifices to such a degree where finding that extra 20% might actually be impossible for them. I don't think it's many by the way, I don't think many people have managed to budget 10,000 lbs so perfectly, but they're buying the cheapest food, never going out, never doing this. They they've moved into the the cheapest rented accommodation they can find.

30:20 Yeah, people, I don't think people are doing that. If it's that important to them, then they'll make it work. Yeah, they'll find the other two grand in, in my opinion, I think we're gonna see this big influx of people leaving I. Think because I want to come on to that point really quickly because if you're already on the higher end by Eaton, yeah, you're spending 50 grand a year. So so that that is a completely different lifestyle and no one's thinking of those people. But lots of people are saying what about the people of less money who are at the private schools where it's like 3 grand a year? Yeah, because if 15 grand an average, I'm not saying 3 grand a year exists, but you know, it's much less. Well, that's also 20% of a much lower. Number. It's it's, it's, it's relative. So like, you know, 20% of 5 grand, Well, that that's a grand a year, you know, that's £100 a month. You're already spending £500 a month on school. Yeah.

31:01 And if you can't afford that £100 jump, then then, OK, Honestly, join the rest of the then don't. Yeah. Because like, yeah, exactly. It's just condescending to be like, oh, it's so bad for me. It's is it is it bad because 93% of us are doing that. So what you trying to say about literally everyone else? I don't like that opinion. But my overall point here, I guess is, is people, people are going to be knocked out. And I get it, it's not going to be many, but I hate the idea that it's to save those few people. Yeah. From losing their luxury. Yeah, right. And it is a luxury, Yeah. And they have to go to state school. Yeah. To save those few people That that that pain of doing that being like the rest of us peasants. I hate the idea that every child at Eaton gets gets subsidised 20% by by.

31:43 Me and you. We're like really actual rich, actual rich people. Reaching 20. Percent off of their fees at the cost of us, the taxpayer. No, thank you. Let's let's, I'm sorry, I'm sorry to the, the bottom, like 2% of the 7% of people that go to private school that you might have to go to state school. I'm sorry, but I can't be, we can't be subsidising those, those people for $0.20. It's not you getting added attacks. It's, it's just you being restored to what it always should have been. And we're not subsidising anymore. That's the way I see it Soz. I think you, I think you're completely right. I think that I, I can't get over that. I, I can't get over that jump. And one of the biggest things again, I've seen in multiple times, it's not big. I suppose it's just a legitimate worry because I think on the macro level of this discussion, right? I I, I don't think I can be convinced by someone to go against what I think right now that that sometimes I have an opinion and I'm like, well, I think that, but yeah, OK with this one.

32:37 I'm, I'm, I do think the facts back up the ideology as well. Yeah. I don't just think it's an ideological battle that's been held here. Government's job, right? If you're looking at a state school, it has to be to fix state education and and also, you know, they have to raise money to do that. For the many, not the few. Exactly. So 3% there go there. I just don't think we can say to the government that that's an or you can disagree with it. This is what I wanna say. You can disagree with it. And what I will do now is maybe just make the separation here of the top level and the individual because I absolutely would understand and sympathise genuinely with anyone. Yeah, who is in this situation where they they they don't see themselves as well off. They might be because because it's hard to we've invested in that bubble.

33:21 And as you've seen, poverty, which exists for millions of kids in this country, unless you've actually seen that, it's hard to grasp what that actually looks like. Like struggling to put food on the plate and parents not like OK, fine. Get away from all Dylans. He's, he's pandering to the OK, you're all that Then for a minute. OK, I I just think for the individual you're allowed to be annoyed. At this yeah, yeah, so can I can I just shit because I know you're gonna think of an example. I've got one yeah, go on. So this is the the I'll speak to someone Instagram. They know who they are listening to this because I know it's an argument. I don't want to name you just in case you didn't want to be named so I'm not going to do it. But the the best counter argument I heard on a personal level, all the macro stuff I could not be convinced away from I'm like no, nothing convinced me. But on a personal level I'm like, OK, I get it. This is bad for you and I have no counter argument which is this person was saying my child has SN that wasn't being met at my state school.

34:09 I live in a small village. There weren't other options. It was either this school or it's this private school, the private schools meeting my child's CN needs. Therefore I'm not I'm not claiming an EHCP through the government. I'm not going to state school. I'm paying for it all privately. But that needs are being met. And if I had to go back to state school, which I will do because I can't afford anymore that those those needs are not going to be anymore. And that's a real argument. And I and I was and. That's convincing. That's convincing because essentially that is the government's right. The government have failed your child in this situation, don't you have failed your child completely and is not meeting their? Needs the state school. System so you've taken them out and technically the government no longer have to accommodate them even though they weren't anyway they weren't giving them enough but they don't know anything now states you finally as a parent you think my child's got he's finally get what they need. It's a sacrifice for me because I could be spending this money on other stuff.

34:57 My child gets what they want and then the government come along again and say ohh no more money please. Like I I I I get that I get that and when you compare that to genuinely Rishi Sunak's family Inger 10K tax break every year just because it's 20% off and it's a high high fee. Yeah that you know they are not the same boat and and this is a sweeping generalisation of a policy which it has to be. I think we can't I don't think we can get into some schools have that some schools don't It's it's a weird one. You're basically judging what school this class has too much or too little or good or bad. But the answer to that and it doesn't answer this person's problem. It doesn't but the answer to that is we need to fix our state schools. Yeah, I agree that that is what the answer to it's not ohh OK let's carry on with the sticking. Plaster approach of yeah if if it's failing why don't you just go on afford private school?

35:46 And the whole point of the ACT is to spend on state schools and what? It has to be. To be, it has to be. I've seen a lot of people say, yeah, it's like it's 1.6 billion. I hope. Yeah. And like, yeah, it sounds like a big number, but like, it's really not that much money. It's do you know what percentage increase of the education budget that would? Be Ohh no I've no idea, do you know? Yeah, go on. You know it would be it, would you think? About God, I actually have no idea. Like, honestly, like less than 1%, two percent, 2%. OK, so a little bit of money. Yeah, it's a little bit of money. It's not much. I get that. That's a good counter argument. Isn't that much money. It isn't going to fix stuff. No, absolutely not. It will need to be other things. As well, but they're basically saying they're going to hire 6500 teachers as a result. I think it's a fascinating debate. I, I, I feel very strongly about it.

36:27 I think as I've got older, I've got a lot better at just trying to be a bit more understanding of individuals. Yeah, definitely. But you know, when, like 1010 years ago you said this to me, I've been like, let's burn private schools. Let's knock them to the ground. Do you know what argument no one ever makes, which I find mental really to think about it. It's a business, right? It's a business in the day. Isn't no one, no, this the extremities only. No one's thinking. Could the private school absorb the cost actually, And actually the parents don't have to do it because you know what they're spending 90, they're spending almost double on the chip, like children getting more double the provision in terms of money than the state school kid, which means there's definitely wiggle. Room you could still get a lot more than a state. Considering it wasn't that big in 2010, the gap we've. Already established 20% real terms, which is the 20% that we're looking. At so it's like, you know what schools could, there's a lot of things schools could do.

37:09 I reckon private schools, if they really sat down and thought about it and stop moaning and actually just thought. Oh, everything else in this country has to have on it. Yeah, like, have you seen how square the state schools are? We still, they still exist. They still exist and they're still providing care to children. And I get that they've been screwed so far that yeah, again, these things aren't being met anymore. But private schools have got a way, way bigger like surplus on that where I'm like, you know what, they probably could say we'll absorb half that. Your fees are going up a bit and and we're not going to, we're going to increase the fees. Anywhere whether profit up this. Time we won't back up our profit a little bit for like the next three years. There's things that I think private schools could do. And and if a business was going bust on the High Street right and and and scrapping that would help them, but they don't know today. Yeah, the government does go ohh. What?

37:54 You'll you'll you'll be all we didn't know about you would No, your business isn't viable. It closes. Down, yeah, you adapt or or it dies and then someone else. We have, we run an education business that charges that me and you, right. We went through the threshold of tax, which is a certain amount. You gotta have a revenue every year. Yeah, if you go past that threshold, you've got to introduce that you have to charge. It's really annoying because what happens is you have a whole thing set up and you charge your customers a certain amount of money. You go through the threshold for that and you've got two options. Either you basically take the hit yourself or you add 20% to your. Cost, which is what it's supposed to be, but a lot of businesses don't. Do that as a business, we've been, we've been functioning for two years and suddenly there's a 20% increase in our in our from, from a customer inflation. And we were like.

38:36 Yeah, from from a customer's point of view, it's not like America where there's an amount and then and taxes on at the end when you get to the till. And you think that's very much like, cool, well, I'm paying this for this and then bloody government putting tax on. Yeah, it's not like that in this country. In this country, it's just that's how much this costs and that's embedded in there. So the government kind of get away with that idea of it. No, no, no. This is what the cost is. So as a business, I get it. It's really annoying. And me and Hayden had to sit down and have a discussion about what's gonna have the minimal impact on our business. Even we absorb the cost and it's no different for our customers and we absorb it. There are profits and we try and save money elsewhere or we put our money up by as much as that is. And then we we're absolutely fine, but we risk losing customers. Yeah. And we had to weigh up where on that scale do we land to try and minimise the impact on our business. But you know, we didn't do, we didn't sit there and go we shouldn't bloody pay that.

39:24 We shouldn't do it. We're like, no, of course we. Do we sat down and we made our business much, much, much better and more desirable to attract more people again and and and then we put the put the price up over. Time. And you know what? If someone didn't want to come, they don't have to. They got school education. Right. Yeah, exactly. We're a luxury. So we we offer a luxury and private schools are luxury as well. Yeah. So there you go. Interesting one. Yeah, as I take that, I would be annoyed if I didn't mention this. Right. There's one last counter argument that you might have already answered. Whatever the last counter I've seen, the big one is that there's going to be a massive influx of children who can no longer meet the threshold of private school fees that will have to suddenly join state school. This is going to happen at the same time. What do you think about that argument? That there was someone from Labour I think. I can't remember her name.

40:06 Someone from Labour, like a long experienced member of the party was on television and this got put to her and you could just tell that she wasn't part of the education ministry was just basically it was put to her and she brushed it off. And she was based like, yeah, well, whatever. And that was picked up on by everyone. That was like, ohh, already know how how stress schools are. What was really funny to me was when the Tory MP's, the Tory people were jumping on their ohh, who's gonna join? Are they in a broken system? Yeah, yeah. Actually, this isn't. That's interesting because I think you're in charge of this whole country, but, and that rightly agitated some people and even a few teachers will talk to me about it. And they were like that bloody Labour person just was just just didn't care that I'd have maybe two extra kids in my class. And I had to say to them, you won't, Yeah, you won't. Cause it's, it's 7%, right?

40:52 Yeah, 7% if we're looking at the, that, that's like two kids per class, right. Let's save all of them came back. Yeah. No private schools. I mean, you're gonna get two kids per class if all of them come back, right. If 50% of them come back, you get one kid extra in your class. Not gonna, it's not gonna be anywhere near 50%. It's gonna be more like one or two Pascal. Yeah, I saw some conservative numbers that were like, let's imagine 10% of children no longer go to private school more. So I've got two retorts to that. OK. Yeah, Number one is it's a separate point that we've got a fixed scores. I can't keep saying it. We've got a fixed scores. We know that that's how we gonna raise money to do it, OK. So yeah, I know it's broken, but part of that point is every year this year, right, I had four people starting my class. This year, I had four extra people come in and some left, sure. But I'm net two up on when I started this year. OK, I crack on.

41:39 Yeah, I'm a teacher. What? It's gone from 29 to 31. OK. I mean, I've got a mark connection. You know it, that these people come with needs. I've gotta be met and stuff. But it's, you know, as a teacher, we have been drilled enough to to understand that we can cope with a class of 31 or a class of 28. Like we know how to do that. Yeah. You just get on with it. OK. The second thing that I would say to that is, yeah, OK, people can join, but they're they're not going to right. And when they do, people are like, oh, but they've got to join in the school. Isn't that so detrimental to them because they're they're really settled in their school. Absolutely. Is is true that for some children they'll be really upsetting to move school. Yeah right. Yeah. Every single kid who's joined my class ever within three days it's like I've been in the class for 10 years.

42:21 Yeah. Completely fine they are absolutely because they are children are incredibly resilient. They make new friends and guess what we're not rabid animals in state school yeah. My kids really care for kids when they start and they. Leave school and go to another one anyway, so they used to it. And if you're in a primary, Junior School as well, like schools, Junior School kids also join us in year three. It's like, yeah, it's not that bad. I also think it's just a load of baloney scaremongering in my opinion. Scare. Ohh. It's like, no, do you know what? I think a very very, very very few amount of people who are paying 10K a year are are going to say I physically cannot sacrifice anything else in my life to find this extra 2 grand. So I'm gonna have to go to school. I think it's gonna be a tiny number of people will deal with it just like they've dealt with the 20% rise in in fees over the years and private school places is not going down.

43:04 Anyway, I think that'd be fine. I think that is exactly where I draw my line at the bottom of this argument. And I would just say to people, if your child is going to private school, I do not believe that you are on the breadline, no. And, and, and you may have pushed yourself to the bread line. Hmm, OK. We may have made more sacrifices than you may made more sacrifice that people get it. But if you are thinking of the macro level of the children I deal with every single day who have one jumper and it's 30 three days into the week, their parents could not afford 10 grand a year even if they spent nothing ever so. You're not in the same, sorry. Anyway, good chat, I went on a bit longer than I thought. Yeah, great chat. I love that. Maybe we'll do a quick little segment at the end and we were gonna have the next segment as this episode, but I think this is gonna be episode title now.

43:49 And what I'll do is I'm going to run through now my top tips to survive times 6 cause bloody tough inning. Yeah, let's do it after the Jingle, of course. Most paying the Jingle Alright guys we're back and we did have a little chat in the jungle and I know there's like this episode. I said well this episode called something else will come on at the end, but we'll chat about something he wants to talk about That turned into a really nice long chat. I think about the whole private school that thing. So we're going to have that as the bulk of this episode. So instead, I'm going to save my top tips for how to survive times 6 to next week, one week closer to the end of Year 6. Anyway, people to TuneIn? I know, right? So yeah, come back next week when we will be talking about our top tips on the craziness that is time 6 and how to how to get through to the end of the year, which hopefully will be helpful to you guys.

44:36 So just to round off this episode then I've got a little game. OK, I've game I I love them online. You see shorts and reels and stuff and it's always like little games people play. And I'm always thinking, can we turn it into something where it's like education based? The problem is that you can't top. You'll never be able to top the game from last week or the week before, whenever it was the bowling hypothetical. Yeah, well, listen. Please don't listen to me. We lost our minds. I think that last week that was really. I ended up asking that to like random people. It was. Just in the street. Just like what it was like 20/20/10. People listening won't know. Yeah. OK. So don't watch it quick hypothetical. I just say really quick, you had was it 10? I don't mean to say 10. Yeah, go. On I'll get it wrong basically, which would you rather nothing in your life changed whatsoever?

45:18 Yeah or you have this other option where you get 10 million hundred million pound £100 million if you bowl a strike in in one game in a game 10/10/10 attempts. But if you don't, if you don't, you tend to a dog, right? So anyway, my game is very simple. I've got 8 words here. I need you to say these words, OK? So I ticked them off when you say them. The only way I can get you to say them is I give you clues, right? I've got 20 words to play with. So for example, let's say the word is phone. I might say OK. Talk. OK, and then I guess a word. Based guess a word based on talk, you might say microphone, OK, no, no. Then I get another word and I might say it's OK, just get 5 minutes on your phone contract.

46:03 OK, so if Hayden gets it, you've got 20 of my words to get through. Eight, I can't get all 8IN that 2020 per. One, you need to average like two and a half, 2 1/2 words per. Question. OK, ready. Good words, but the only thing you're getting and you can play along at home. Please do is these it's themed around our job education and you know so so first word OK, rare. Time. No sheets. Glue. Yes, glue. Well done. So you're on two next one time. Planning.

46:50 Afternoon. PA. Yes, well done. So on four OK help. Staff meetings help. Buddy help me I wanna leave No good ohh team. TI yes, I realise. That yes, yes. OK. So 1633 out of eight, well, we were doing OK. OK, next one tree. Failed. Staff Room. Wait sorry, did you say tree or tree treat? So treat stuff from birthday.

47:45 Candles. That just makes me think better again. Birthday celebrations. Birthday cake is it? Like a daily word gay Jesus Christ. OK. So they're free then? Yeah, Yeah. OK. Ohh. OK, Alright, next one maps geography. Yes, easy, easy. Um, ohh, next one row five out of eight. OK, this is a sick word. Warm. That's rubbish. Ohh, microwave. That classic education tool is it. Sorry, every star has a microphone. Lost.

48:33 Ohh God I'm lost. Um, warm and lost. Ohh I don't know, I'm going to just say some random so I can get another word shared area. I don't know, I don't know. OK, another clue. Buttons. Lost buttons lost. Lost property now jumper coat. Ohh no. Yeah. You know, look like. Having ohh, I don't know.

49:16 It's stuck. Lighter. OK, umm, cardigan. Yes, yes, you said jump and I was like my next one was jumper. Yeah. Yeah, cool. 2 for 6/10/14. We're 14. You got six guesses. Get the last two. We're gonna. Ohh. Come on. Come on. Come on here. To know which homophone you mean. Oh my God that's so different headphones. Morning. Whistle. Lunch.

50:00 Break time. No here. Morning, lunch. Check. I'm still stuck on which here it is. I'm like you came in so different. Something in here or I hear what was the last one. Sorry. Check. Check here. Morning lunch. Check. Here. Morning, lunch. Check register. Yes, well, here's your here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can whistle. That's right. Only got 2 left to get this one. No. OK, monotonous. Planning.

50:42 Extremely. Whoa ohh, that's so. Funny what you said, jumper. I honestly, my brain went ohh, God, and when you said birthday because my next one was birthday as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was gonna say birthday, and you're like, birthday. The candles on my cake. Yeah. Treating the staff room. Funny Cake. That was really good game. I thought it was gonna be a lot easier, actually. Yeah. When we did the first couple, I was like, we're gonna do this in like 10 guesses. Now, because it's one word and like you said, there's always like little tiny. Bit here I was like ohh man both of my phones are so relevant here as you know. Yeah. I thought it was quite good. I enjoyed. That here, right here. Oh, I get it now.

51:24 You hear on the playground. Because I thought one, I thought, why? Why has the whistle in your hands? You really laugh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that that really made sense. Well, it doesn't look. I appreciate that I need to find some games. Because I need to do anything to do this podcast would be great. Would have one story, really provocative, really provocative between now and at some point. That's really that's that's vague enough for me to enjoy go guys gonna finish up there. Hope you enjoyed that one and do let us know because we, I don't know, I felt like we were very, very opinionated on that one. Very. Yeah, you might have always agree. And you know what? We're not afraid to hear new. We're not wrong. I'm joking.

52:05 We we could be. But no, I don't know. I feel like we evaluate that point pretty well. Yeah. I think the greater good outweighs the some of the negatives for sure A few individual people, which I'm not gonna. It's not negative. It is. I think the greatest good is more important. I think we should have a private schools. Let us know what you think and let us know you thought about the game. 20 questions maybe how you do it to me next time. See you in the next one. Bye bye everyone.