Ep 49: Writing Assessment: How Many Schools Are Cheating The Broken System?

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Hey everyone, before we jump in,
this week's a little bit of

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something different.
We used to do skits.

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This isn't a skit.
Sorry, but it is gonna be a

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little chat.
To let him.

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Down very quick one.
It's been a year since we

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started the podcast.
It has.

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No it's not.
It's been a year and two weeks

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because I missed the year, weeks
ago.

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Yeah, it was the start of
February, so we're a couple

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weeks into the year now.
So thank you everyone.

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Some people up in this thing
since episode one, which is

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unbelievable.
It's obviously we've picked up

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other people.
On my mum, Your mum.

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Rishi Sunak, you know all your
customers out there.

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Big thank you for listening
every week.

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And a huge thank you for getting
involved in all our socials at

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Teach Seat Repeat podcast on
Instagram and just letting us

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know how you think the episodes
are going.

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Because I don't think we ever
expected to even make it to a

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year.
Never mind.

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And we love you all.
Except for that one star.

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Yeah, for that one, that we all.
We all get pissed with.

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That I don't like you?
Umm, but everything else?

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Yeah, lovely.
So I just thought what we do,

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it's been a year, if you wanted
to get as a birthday present,

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you know you could you could get
a birthday present.

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All we want is for you guys to
please share the podcast.

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If you enjoy the podcast, please
share with someone that's

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invaluable to us.
And if you haven't already, we

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have mentioned that, but reviews
help us so much because when

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someone lands on our podcast on
one of these streaming sites,

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the more reviews, the more
reliability, the more people are

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likely to play and then
obviously Hayden, what's their

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press play, they're gonna stay
on.

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Yeah, of course.
Yeah.

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Why wouldn't?
And as Dylan said, as I said a

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long time ago, we we do this
podcast because we want that

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podcast money.
So we need, we need people to be

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sharing this so we can get the
money for the podcast.

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That's all we're doing it for.
Right.

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Yeah, that's, that's obviously.
That's how we say yes.

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Because I think most people make
money by not making money for a

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year.
That's a good way to make.

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Money have not made any money
from.

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This, this, this is normally in
podcast where response would go.

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What are we doing?
Need financial planning spaces?

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I'm joking, I'm going jokes.
With rambling on, anyone knew

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has turned off now.
So guys, please can you give us

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a review Please can you share
the podcast?

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Please just.
Please do it.

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Just please.
OK.

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Hello everyone and welcome back
to another episode of Tech Step

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Repeat.
My name is.

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Dylan and my name is Aiden.
No, it's not.

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It's Mr Beg.
Please please.

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Everyone got that kid over
there.

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Ohh, please.
It's when they do the early end.

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Please.
I didn't turn.

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You did because you didn't at
the end, so I know you're lying.

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Do you just really randomly
because I just said the word

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miss?
Do you?

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Do you get called miss all the?
Time I got Miss all the time.

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But there's not there's not an
equivalent because the

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equivalent is Mr That just
sounds crazy.

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A child did want to call me Mr
And I was like, is this Mary

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Poppins?
Hello Mr But there's no

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equivalent cause the equivalent
is Sir, and that's so much

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higher.
Than get the odd, isn't it?

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I get the odd.
Sir, don't you feel

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uncomfortable though?
Like Miss Smith, Sir, it's like

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so.
Different I had, I've had a

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couple of kids over the years,
so just decided no, I'm gonna,

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it's not supposed to be.
So yeah, I think it's Year 6.

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They're like, no.
And one of the kids, funny

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enough, the other day he came up
to me and said, what do what do

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they call what do they call you
at secondary school?

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Will it still be Mr Stevens or
was it like Sir?

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And I was like probably Sir, it
was like, OK, I'm gonna start

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doing that.
Get ready.

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And you forgot immediately.
Didn't do it once.

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Yeah, I didn't know you were in
class 3, kid.

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Get off the street, walking from
the shop.

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It wasn't 20 year old Ohh God.
You're going to get ready.

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He was just some secondary
school teacher work I always

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gotta do.
He's gonna call me.

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All these upset, upset, upset.
I'm sorry mate, you don't have a

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teaching qualification, you just
some random bloke from Tesco.

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Ohh God.
What we're doing We're recording

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this podcast quite early in the.
Morning.

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So we're a bit delirious, Quite
working.

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I mean, I quite like it.
We get the best feedback from

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our delirious ones.
I think we should do a midnight

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podcast, like where we where we
stayed up all night the night

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before.
Completely delusional.

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God, get some snacks and stuff.
Not sugar for me, but Hayden,

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how's your sugar?
No sugar.

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Going well.
I did eat 1/3 of a cake last

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night that you served on a
plate.

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Third.
Victory.

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Don't explain why it was
specifically 1/3 what did you?

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Do right.
It's been like it's Lawrence

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birthday the other day, so of
course.

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So your no sugar February lasted
until the 8th of February.

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Ohh no it didn't.
No, it didn't, because it lasted

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until 9:00 AM, the 1st of
February you had a cream.

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Of course.
But yeah, for Lauren's birthday.

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And this is the problem, right?
In all seriousness, I have an

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actual problem eating sugar and
chocolate.

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And you know, I've said it
before.

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I knew the second I could jump
on something and take advantage

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of it, and I absolutely done
that.

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Yeah, Lawrence Birthday.
OK, here's the 7th cake.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.
Terrible.

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I'm so bad and seeing you say no
to the cake made me feel ashamed

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of myself because I was like you
should have, that's why.

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Because I was the one in Tesco.
Buying it was like I'm looking

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at it for ages thinking I wasn't
on birthday 2 days.

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Yeah, I know, I know.
We're going round there for

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dinner.
Should I get?

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I'll get a cake and me and I
probably would have a bit.

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You didn't have it, so I had a
third of the cake.

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Well, this is, yeah, because you
brought a cake in.

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Firstly, I was like, you know
what?

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That's fine because I do need to
go over it.

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I'm not gonna have sugar.
I can't make everyone else not

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have sugar.
That's fine.

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So you brought the cake in and
then you were feeding with her.

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Lauren was feeding Rory, your
lawn was just chilling out and I

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was doing the washing up after
dinner and you just shout into

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me going.
Dylan, can you get us that cake

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ready?
I was like, what?

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That's different.
That's different to me.

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Knowing it exists, I'll cut it
up for you.

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OK, so there's this cake.
And I thought, I can't cut that

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cake into quarters because then
one is for me, by definition,

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there's four of them.
So I cut the cake into thirds.

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It gave everyone a huge slice.
Buttered them up.

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The sugar is one of those ones
from like Tesco, like Tesco,

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Finest, like the.
Smaller ones.

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Podcast money is coming in.
No, no, no, no, no, no Guys,

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everyone.
You need to know it was one of

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those Tesco fights.
Not no, not Tesco specific,

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right?
No, no, no, no, no.

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Tesco's finest Victoria sponge
with jam made from the suburbs

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of France.
Actually, thank you.

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It was £74.15 and it was
delicious.

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Yeah, it was.
It was nice.

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My third was ohh it's.
Great.

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Yeah.
Because everyone listening, ohh

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yeah, I can think of a Tesco's
extra finest.

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I always get that.
Well, yeah.

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They're those sites where you
can come into.

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Four.
No one looks at them and it's no

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one knows.
No one.

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No one's buying them.
Cost of living crisis, mate.

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I'm sorry, I actually just
picked up some sponge and some

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icing and tell you what.
Though you must have spent all

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your money on food instead of
clothes, because you've got your

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free top on finally.
Yeah, finally got my hoop hoop

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top on.
So if you haven't, go back about

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five or six episodes and.
I think it was more than that.

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You.
Know we would do.

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I don't.
I never know what we're doing.

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I don't understand why we got
into a conversation about it was

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a game and.
It had a little game.

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It was just stupid people got
involved online.

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There's a book of ours that's
the collective noun for.

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Ours.
Yeah, we, we decided it's not

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Parliament.
Don't come at me with your facts

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and figures that Parliament.
It's not that Parliament, Jesus.

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Anyway, how are you?
I'm good.

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How are you doing Alright.
I feel really playful.

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Do you?
Playful.

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Wow.
Good.

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We've got a serious.
Episode Mossman.

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Yeah.
Anyway, should we really quickly

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catch up and then crack on?
Yeah, go on.

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Because I think Right
Assessments can be a very

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interesting chat.
Anyway, yeah, good.

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My favourite finger pointing to
the, you know, gonna be a good

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point.
Anyway, we went for a Curry last

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week.
Paul.

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I don't even mention Paul on the
podcast before I trained with

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Paul.
OK, Paul's a guy, he's had a

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whole career before we going to
teach him.

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He was an engineer or something
and he had a whole career before

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going to teaching him.
Well, spent a whole year with

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him, engineering engine or
something.

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Anyway, I trained with him, we
travelled into university

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together, we had breakfast every
morning.

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It's just a sound guy, really,
really nice guy.

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We love him and we went, we go
for a car with him.

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It averages out like once a
term, but Oh my

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It's just always been really
funny because we walked into

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teaching as our first career
around the same time as he

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walked in as his second career.
I always remember going to his

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room because we ended up working
in the same school to begin

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with, and he'd be there, like
heading his hands like boys, you

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don't know how how hard this job
is.

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And I was like, huh, that's just
normal that wait till 7:00

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tonight.
And he's like, what?

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This is ridiculous because
basically Paul used to enjoy

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volunteering as a reader at his
children's school.

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So he'd go in and like one
afternoon a week and read with

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the kids.
And he was like this Teaching

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lark's great.
I'm gonna do this, do this.

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And then obviously you step into
professional like, I've well,

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I've got all this.
He's just hilarious.

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So that was nice.
Went for a Curry and I printed

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out some more bookmarks.
So this is, this is niche.

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I have no idea what episode this
was mentioned, but it was a long

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time ago and if you scroll back
far enough on our Instagram

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before the memes that I've
posted, there was a picture.

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I've made bookmarks with
Hayden's face on it and it's a

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screenshot from a YouTube video
we did and the kids obviously

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obsessed with it.
And I've had this group of girls

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from, I think your class, or
maybe a different class in year

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six who have seen them because I
gave just four out like they

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were gold dust and never been
pestering me for about a month.

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Like, can we have this, please?
I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure.

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But obviously you have 16 other
jobs that actually need to get

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done before you make a bookmark
on your face.

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I finally gave it to them.
They were so excited and they

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ran off and they they were like,
so great though, thank you so

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much.
Like they couldn't have been

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more grateful.
Yeah, they ran out into the

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00:09:26,580 --> 00:09:29,230
playground at lunchtime.
And so I I turned away to get

228
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,810
ready for my lesson and I just
looked out the playground again

229
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,090
and what did I see?
The girls surrounding the head

230
00:09:34,100 --> 00:09:37,330
teacher shoving it in his face
and head teacher, like, just

231
00:09:37,340 --> 00:09:38,370
bewildered.
Like, yeah.

232
00:09:38,380 --> 00:09:40,300
OK.
Knowing immediately that was

233
00:09:40,310 --> 00:09:43,650
you.
I reckon this is what it was,

234
00:09:43,660 --> 00:09:45,290
Dylan.
I reckon his second thought was

235
00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:46,790
a bit Hayden's done that for
himself.

236
00:09:47,370 --> 00:09:50,450
Yeah, it's kind of stupid thing.
You're the second most likely.

237
00:09:50,460 --> 00:09:53,160
Person that day it was.
It was really sweet actually.

238
00:09:53,170 --> 00:09:55,320
It's quite funny.
It was dismissing the kids in

239
00:09:55,330 --> 00:09:57,780
the day and the whole the whole
school is kind of at the same

240
00:09:57,790 --> 00:09:58,870
place.
We can all see each other.

241
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,310
And I just saw a kid walking out
from Euphoria 5.

242
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,370
I don't know probably your class
just in our hand.

243
00:10:04,420 --> 00:10:05,720
And I was like, oh, that's
really sweet.

244
00:10:05,730 --> 00:10:08,250
Everything else reading book and
shoved in the bag.

245
00:10:08,260 --> 00:10:10,070
Everything else, Letters shoved
in the bag.

246
00:10:10,140 --> 00:10:11,670
Left their shoes in the
classroom.

247
00:10:12,930 --> 00:10:15,020
But really important that we
hold this because I was just

248
00:10:15,030 --> 00:10:17,520
really immediately wants to show
look, look what Mr. Price made

249
00:10:17,530 --> 00:10:18,500
us look.
This bookmark.

250
00:10:18,510 --> 00:10:19,600
This is Steven's face.
On it.

251
00:10:19,610 --> 00:10:22,260
Ohh man, it's so good.
I was thinking of starting to

252
00:10:22,270 --> 00:10:23,680
make it an incentive for
reading.

253
00:10:24,390 --> 00:10:26,210
Honestly.
Just like, OK, if you read three

254
00:10:26,220 --> 00:10:28,200
times a week for this whole
time, you get Mr Stevens.

255
00:10:28,210 --> 00:10:31,970
But it works, yeah.
Mr. Price There's a picture of

256
00:10:31,980 --> 00:10:37,550
Mr of Dylan The picture of Dylan
as a baby just looking in areas

257
00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:40,290
because he's like really posed
well, you must be like 2.

258
00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:42,440
Yeah, I look simultaneously 2
and 57.

259
00:10:42,450 --> 00:10:45,210
Yeah, you look like an old man,
but I bet you and I was like,

260
00:10:45,220 --> 00:10:46,910
this is brilliant.
So I turned them into little

261
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,710
laminated cards and made them a
reward to, like, incentivize my

262
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:51,690
math.
Class to do signed.

263
00:10:51,700 --> 00:10:54,150
Five of them, yeah, there was
there was signed.

264
00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,990
Trading guys were like 50
altogether.

265
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,730
Five were signed and it was just
random.

266
00:10:57,740 --> 00:10:59,210
Like they were desperate for the
signed one.

267
00:10:59,220 --> 00:11:01,180
Ohh God it was so funny.
It worked though.

268
00:11:01,190 --> 00:11:02,630
They would do anything for those
cards.

269
00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,710
Like trading cards.
It was, it was brilliant.

270
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,200
It was pretty good.
But yeah, apart from that, it's

271
00:11:07,210 --> 00:11:09,820
half time, absolutely buzzing,
just that half time feeling

272
00:11:09,830 --> 00:11:13,330
never, never beat that and we're
getting the house done.

273
00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:15,900
That's not stressful, I guess,
because we're just starting now.

274
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:17,740
After the baby came, baby put a
pause to it.

275
00:11:17,810 --> 00:11:20,580
Anyone doesn't know We moved
house at the end of August, baby

276
00:11:20,590 --> 00:11:23,710
came start of October.
We spent them five weeks just

277
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,410
getting house habitable for him.
And then since then we've not

278
00:11:26,420 --> 00:11:29,100
done anything, finally starting
to actually get some stuff done.

279
00:11:29,150 --> 00:11:32,900
So no one's interested.
And before I had a house, people

280
00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:34,760
talk about house renovations.
I'm like, I don't care.

281
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,150
Switched off already, yeah.
So there you go.

282
00:11:38,250 --> 00:11:40,430
We're gonna have done.
How's your week, Hayden?

283
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:41,960
Yes, alright, half term.
Cool.

284
00:11:41,970 --> 00:11:43,890
Nice one anyway.
So.

285
00:11:46,270 --> 00:11:47,420
Ohh, done.
Come on.

286
00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:48,760
That's right.
No, I've got one thing to.

287
00:11:48,770 --> 00:11:50,180
Say one thing better be.
Good.

288
00:11:50,190 --> 00:11:51,460
This is awful because you'll be
even.

289
00:11:51,470 --> 00:11:54,670
You'll feel this pain and anyone
don't know feel this pain.

290
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,970
I accidentally left my
independent rights at school and

291
00:11:58,980 --> 00:12:01,430
they've got to be marked like.
Well, they've got to be teacher.

292
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,910
Assessed.
Your your key stage two year six

293
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,660
writing.
Yeah, it does.

294
00:12:06,670 --> 00:12:08,440
Interesting.
Yeah, these books got marked.

295
00:12:08,490 --> 00:12:10,760
Yeah, forgot them.
So that's annoying.

296
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:13,570
So they gotta be done sometime
next in the week now.

297
00:12:13,610 --> 00:12:16,660
I'm just thinking, just thinking
back to start the episode where

298
00:12:16,670 --> 00:12:19,680
you said you don't smoke thing
happened this week and you said

299
00:12:19,690 --> 00:12:21,780
you've got one thing, which is
you left your books at home.

300
00:12:22,010 --> 00:12:23,840
I don't want to mention your
girlfriends birthday trip away

301
00:12:23,850 --> 00:12:25,710
with your baby.
I was going to mention that as

302
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:26,720
well.
You said one thing.

303
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:30,550
One thing about school, one
other thing.

304
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,090
Getting out the way.
We experience responded now by

305
00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:35,260
Port Lympne.
No, we're not.

306
00:12:35,270 --> 00:12:38,770
We're not sponsored by them.
But if they want to, yeah, I did

307
00:12:38,780 --> 00:12:40,590
go to Port Lymm for Lawrence
birthday.

308
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,550
To Port Lympne, because we've
got a lot of listeners who don't

309
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,010
live in this race specific area.
OK.

310
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:48,100
Not actually a zoo, is it?
So, wildlife reserve?

311
00:12:48,110 --> 00:12:50,960
I don't know.
It's It's a It's a posh.

312
00:12:50,970 --> 00:12:52,730
It's a posh.
It's not a zoo.

313
00:12:52,770 --> 00:12:54,140
Why?
What are you on about?

314
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:56,100
It's not a zoo.
Tesco Finest.

315
00:12:56,110 --> 00:12:58,100
Sorry.
Tesco Finest Cakes.

316
00:12:58,250 --> 00:13:00,820
I go to Wildlife Reserves.
It's nice.

317
00:13:00,990 --> 00:13:03,420
You're not gonna catch.
Sorry, work case, it's not too

318
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:05,020
lazy.
When you go there, what do you

319
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:06,600
see?
Is it?

320
00:13:06,650 --> 00:13:10,020
Well, I saw a beautiful tree top
bubble that we stayed in.

321
00:13:10,350 --> 00:13:13,560
It was fantastic experience.
Did you take just go?

322
00:13:13,570 --> 00:13:18,460
Extra Fun is spun by Tesco Extra
fillers sponge and we stayed in

323
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:20,050
our bubble and we walked around
the.

324
00:13:20,060 --> 00:13:22,250
World reserve, we need to start
to look at the dividends are

325
00:13:22,330 --> 00:13:24,840
given out in our business
because I don't know how you're

326
00:13:24,850 --> 00:13:27,060
you're getting all this podcast
money from somewhere.

327
00:13:27,890 --> 00:13:29,370
But it was really nice.
Yeah, I'm sure.

328
00:13:29,650 --> 00:13:32,680
Anyone that's nature reserve,
anyone that lives.

329
00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:39,360
Excuse me, I did not go to a
bloody zoo.

330
00:13:39,690 --> 00:13:44,970
I went to a nature reserve.
Don't you know Ohh Like, I'm so

331
00:13:44,980 --> 00:13:48,230
sorry.
I'm so nature reserve, but it's

332
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,550
a bloody bird sanctuary.
I saw rhinos and everything.

333
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:53,750
Wingham Wildlife Park You and
dude.

334
00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:57,200
Sorry.
But very much recommend if you

335
00:13:57,210 --> 00:13:59,300
live in the South of England, do
check out Portland.

336
00:13:59,310 --> 00:14:03,430
No zoos in Kent.
Ohh, whatever.

337
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:04,520
Just go there.
It's great.

338
00:14:04,530 --> 00:14:07,500
This is great.
Yeah.

339
00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:16,870
All right, guys, take 3.
It takes three.

340
00:14:17,310 --> 00:14:21,700
It's not my fault.
Anyway, we really from either.

341
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,310
Stop coughing.
You got a mouthful of Victoria

342
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:26,710
sponge.
You trying to the podcast?

343
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,950
Sorry Tesco finest.
Anyway, you guys have seen the

344
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,110
title before?
We have because we always

345
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,590
decided the title after we film.
What's the best title for this

346
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,870
podcast?
But you get the gist.

347
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,550
It's about writing assessment so
I'm trying to screw it back.

348
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,790
Hayden, you've done some
research here because last night

349
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,090
I was sleeping so you've done
some research whilst I was just

350
00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:47,860
chilling out and I want you to
tell me, OK And although this is

351
00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:51,840
at home.
Well you, Boris, what do you

352
00:14:51,850 --> 00:14:57,480
want to know?
I want to know everyone at home

353
00:14:57,490 --> 00:15:00,400
who have a teacher or not.
What is writing assessment?

354
00:15:00,410 --> 00:15:03,690
OK, so when you get to the end
of Key stage 2, which is year

355
00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:06,480
six, we've all heard of the
Sats, maths and English.

356
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,960
But there's obviously a bit
missing there, which is writing.

357
00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:11,760
Because in English we're talking
about tests for comprehension,

358
00:15:11,770 --> 00:15:13,590
right?
And GPS, grammar, punctuation

359
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,300
and spelling.
But we still need to somehow

360
00:15:15,310 --> 00:15:17,230
make sure people know where
children are.

361
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,630
They're writing.
So what's the history of this?

362
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:20,940
What?
What the teachers have to do?

363
00:15:20,950 --> 00:15:21,970
Where?
Where we ended up today.

364
00:15:21,980 --> 00:15:23,260
What's?
Going like, let's just go back

365
00:15:23,270 --> 00:15:24,810
in time a bit and say in
context, right?

366
00:15:24,820 --> 00:15:26,650
Because you know what?
As a teacher, I didn't really

367
00:15:26,660 --> 00:15:28,370
know the full history of this.
And so some of.

368
00:15:28,380 --> 00:15:30,110
You.
But we qualified in 2014, right?

369
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,330
Yeah, so.
Vague memories of being at

370
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,350
school.
Yeah, exactly.

371
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,370
So our system now is very
different to probably what we

372
00:15:35,380 --> 00:15:36,400
went through primary school,
right.

373
00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:38,090
OK.
So right, going back in time a

374
00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:40,740
bit, 1988, the Education Reform
Act which we have talked about

375
00:15:40,750 --> 00:15:41,950
before when we talked about the.
Curriculum.

376
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,750
Big moment.
National curriculum comes in and

377
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,130
with that comes in the the, the
Sats, so the standard assessment

378
00:15:48,140 --> 00:15:50,310
tasks.
I never knew what that.

379
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,870
Was standardised assessment
tests, but it's not.

380
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,370
It's standard assessment tasks.
Sats, right?

381
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,550
And they were like, OK, we need,
we need to assess kids, we do

382
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,680
actually need to know if this
national curriculum is working

383
00:15:59,690 --> 00:16:01,150
or not sure.
So it kind of makes sense,

384
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,120
right?
And they brought in the key

385
00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:06,920
stage 1 Sats at the end of year
two and key stage 3 as well.

386
00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:09,440
So in secondary school, right.
And then a few years later in

387
00:16:09,450 --> 00:16:13,060
1995, I guess when those first,
that first cohort got to year

388
00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:15,420
six, yeah, would be they
introduced the key stage two

389
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:19,060
Sats, which are probably the
most famous Sats really because

390
00:16:19,070 --> 00:16:21,060
later on the key stage 3 Sats
were actually scrapped.

391
00:16:21,070 --> 00:16:22,720
I think we might.
You might not have done it,

392
00:16:22,730 --> 00:16:24,110
actually.
I think I missed.

393
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,300
It I think I was the last.
Year I think I didn't do.

394
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:29,330
It because it was like your 10
just before the GCSE these other

395
00:16:29,340 --> 00:16:30,920
tests I was like why?
Why no?

396
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:32,790
Yeah, I don't know.
Actually no, because key stage

397
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,080
3.
Vietnam, isn't it?

398
00:16:34,090 --> 00:16:35,040
Ohh Yeah.
Nine maybe, Yeah.

399
00:16:35,050 --> 00:16:35,880
Yeah, 10, yeah.
Nine.

400
00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:37,300
Yeah.
And I remember doing the Sats

401
00:16:37,310 --> 00:16:38,600
there.
Anyway, I think we did, yeah.

402
00:16:38,650 --> 00:16:41,420
So yeah.
So 1995 key stage, two Sats come

403
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:44,400
in.
And it was interesting because

404
00:16:44,410 --> 00:16:47,640
it got boycotted massively by
the unions back then because.

405
00:16:47,650 --> 00:16:48,670
It was.
What was it?

406
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,480
What do you mean?
What was even happening?

407
00:16:50,490 --> 00:16:53,760
Was it writing or?
OK, so the Sats involved maths,

408
00:16:53,830 --> 00:16:56,770
English and science, right?
So it was everything.

409
00:16:56,780 --> 00:16:58,980
So it was kind of similar to the
tests we do now in.

410
00:16:58,990 --> 00:17:01,250
Math in a sit down formal.
Test, sit down, formal test.

411
00:17:01,260 --> 00:17:04,210
So for writing, it was alongside
the reading of things.

412
00:17:04,220 --> 00:17:07,550
For writing, they also did a sit
down formal test where it was

413
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,119
like here you go, here's your
prompt.

414
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,430
So it was a random genre.
Here's your prompt.

415
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,349
You've got like an hour.
I can't remember the timing was,

416
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,170
but it was an extended piece of
writing and then that went off

417
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,599
and was externally marked just
like all the other tests are

418
00:17:19,609 --> 00:17:22,329
marked.
So just one piece of one piece

419
00:17:22,339 --> 00:17:23,880
of writing, one piece of
extending.

420
00:17:23,890 --> 00:17:26,390
Anyone who teaches now, who
wasn't around then probably

421
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,420
thinks that's crazy.
It feels mad, doesn't it?

422
00:17:28,430 --> 00:17:29,230
Yeah.
And there were.

423
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,670
What we're gonna look at a bit
later in this episode is a

424
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,420
review that came in in 2011,
which is what ended up changing

425
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:37,510
right to what we have now.
That the kind of teacher

426
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:38,680
assessment model.
Yeah.

427
00:17:38,750 --> 00:17:41,400
And in that review it was saying
like, this is a really flawed

428
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:44,010
system currently because, you
know, listed off a few reasons

429
00:17:44,020 --> 00:17:46,410
which we'll go into.
Yeah, that's.

430
00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:47,750
Yeah, just back to the history
of it.

431
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,760
So teachers.
So when it all came in, the

432
00:17:49,770 --> 00:17:51,920
teachers workload went up
massively.

433
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:54,040
In what way?
In in marking tests and things.

434
00:17:54,050 --> 00:17:55,360
That's a mark.
All sorts of tests.

435
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:57,250
I don't know how to mark the
actual sets.

436
00:17:57,260 --> 00:17:59,920
I don't think so, but there was
loads of marking involved,

437
00:17:59,990 --> 00:18:02,120
right?
Which wasn't paid at the time.

438
00:18:02,130 --> 00:18:05,140
I don't really know exactly why.
So maybe do you think, was it

439
00:18:05,150 --> 00:18:07,540
like the Sats were being passed
around like you'd market

440
00:18:07,550 --> 00:18:08,040
different?
School.

441
00:18:08,050 --> 00:18:08,450
Yeah.
Yeah.

442
00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:09,710
Not sure.
Not because again this.

443
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:11,950
Again, for anyone I'm sat here
listening to you like.

444
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,810
What you what do you?
Mean like, can you clarify

445
00:18:13,820 --> 00:18:17,330
because I don't understand
because it's crazy to think now

446
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,030
that in the year 6 Sats you'd
then Mark do marketing like

447
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,390
unless you've opted in for
money.

448
00:18:21,460 --> 00:18:24,690
Yeah, which is.
Terrible what was, but they they

449
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,930
estimated that about 44 hours of
additional workload came in for

450
00:18:27,940 --> 00:18:30,070
teachers with the Sats and
teachers obviously just like no,

451
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,540
what you talking about, why am
I?

452
00:18:31,550 --> 00:18:33,510
Gonna do and it's funny because
now it's about 57.

453
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,390
Yeah, 45.
Now it's like, cool, that's

454
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,250
nothing.
But you know, it was They tried

455
00:18:37,260 --> 00:18:38,570
to point, their unions, tried to
boycott.

456
00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:40,360
The whole thing was like, no,
get rid of what we doing.

457
00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:42,430
This is mental, yeah, but we
need to be.

458
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:43,620
Paid.
But that's really interesting

459
00:18:43,630 --> 00:18:46,120
because I think a lot of union
bashing lately for people

460
00:18:46,130 --> 00:18:48,250
outside of education and stuff,
and even I think inside

461
00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:51,380
education now I talked to a lot
of people about the unions and

462
00:18:51,390 --> 00:18:54,560
they're a bit like, well, not
enamoured by them.

463
00:18:54,570 --> 00:18:57,030
Even though gone through the
strikes and stuff like, OK,

464
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,240
well, we did get this, like what
are they still going about this?

465
00:19:00,250 --> 00:19:02,850
It's important to remember it's
stuff like this actually in the

466
00:19:02,860 --> 00:19:06,800
past, which they've done a job,
yeah, but you can't introduce

467
00:19:06,810 --> 00:19:08,560
all of this.
And just like, OK, here's and

468
00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:09,640
then the unions actually stood
up.

469
00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:11,960
If they hadn't done that,
perhaps at the minute not,

470
00:19:11,970 --> 00:19:14,210
nothing would have changed.
Still, remember reading from the

471
00:19:14,220 --> 00:19:15,340
report.
I didn't write it down, but it

472
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:18,560
said that initially they
estimated an increase in teacher

473
00:19:18,570 --> 00:19:21,000
workload of like 30 hours.
That's what they like budgeted

474
00:19:21,010 --> 00:19:23,400
for.
I know.

475
00:19:23,410 --> 00:19:25,030
Yeah, we'll just have 30.
That's fine.

476
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,340
But the budget is 0.
Let's put 30 hours in, because

477
00:19:28,350 --> 00:19:29,120
yeah.
That's right.

478
00:19:29,130 --> 00:19:30,850
Yeah.
But it went up to about 44 in

479
00:19:30,860 --> 00:19:32,950
the review was saying to people
obviously annoyed that this is

480
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,500
like it's not even, it's higher
than they weren't even happy

481
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:37,810
about the 30 hours increase.
But that at least was like this

482
00:19:37,820 --> 00:19:40,700
is what it's going to be And it
was more that's crazy.

483
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:43,200
So that's what it used to be up
up until around.

484
00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:47,050
So there was a review in 2011.
So at this point, there's a

485
00:19:47,060 --> 00:19:50,300
there's a science test, there's
a science test, an English

486
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:52,770
reading test, an English writing
testing test.

487
00:19:52,850 --> 00:19:55,090
English grammar, punctuation,
spelling, writing kind of

488
00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:57,470
included some grammar,
punctuation elements.

489
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,870
I think it was like a spelling
test that went with it, but that

490
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:01,400
kind of encompassed.
All sure.

491
00:20:01,410 --> 00:20:02,570
Sure.
I believe there was even a

492
00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:04,010
speaking and listening.
I think, yeah.

493
00:20:04,020 --> 00:20:05,220
Doing that, yeah.
Yeah.

494
00:20:05,230 --> 00:20:07,420
Speaking, listening, that kind
of just got phased out.

495
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:08,720
That's not really anything now
is it?

496
00:20:08,730 --> 00:20:11,700
No, it's just not fair.
And obviously maths is just

497
00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:13,280
stayed the same.
Maths, yeah, just had those just

498
00:20:13,290 --> 00:20:15,370
maths tests, which I'm sure I've
slightly changed the format, but

499
00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:16,970
they've always been the same
sort of thing.

500
00:20:17,210 --> 00:20:18,930
So that's what it was.
That's what it was for a long

501
00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:20,350
time.
So what was the issue with the

502
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,770
fact it was a test then?
Like other than workload and

503
00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:25,130
stuff, yeah.
What is the issue with there

504
00:20:25,140 --> 00:20:26,990
being a writing test?
Because no one seems to have an

505
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,220
issue with being a math.
Test, Right.

506
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:30,020
So this was really interesting.
So I read this review.

507
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:33,630
It was called the Lord Bew
Review in 2011.

508
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,150
The beer.
Review Lord Bew sounds like some

509
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:36,530
nice Tesco finest.
Cake.

510
00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:39,080
Yeah, I saw that name and I
thought, I'll read that.

511
00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:42,260
I'm reading that.
That's my that's my kind of guy.

512
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,600
My God.
So I've actually wrote down what

513
00:20:47,610 --> 00:20:51,970
what he and his team assessed as
like the problem, right with

514
00:20:51,980 --> 00:20:58,140
this, you know, writing sure
test and first thing was too

515
00:20:58,150 --> 00:21:01,090
dependent on genre.
So because it was just one piece

516
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,690
of extended writing, a lot of
the complaints from schools

517
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:06,170
were, you know, some of my kids
just don't read.

518
00:21:06,180 --> 00:21:08,550
This genre doesn't really suit
them, and I don't want to write.

519
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:09,970
About It's non-fiction, but
they're really.

520
00:21:09,980 --> 00:21:11,640
Imaginative.
Yeah, really they are.

521
00:21:11,650 --> 00:21:14,080
You know, it's potluck.
What genre they got so some kids

522
00:21:14,090 --> 00:21:14,790
would perform.
Better.

523
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,250
So it was really just a simple
prompt where it was right a

524
00:21:18,260 --> 00:21:20,620
diary entry, and then their
whole assessment for writing was

525
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:22,810
based on that.
I haven't seen an example of it,

526
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:25,370
but that's the impression I.
Get from this is that it was

527
00:21:25,380 --> 00:21:27,010
just one piece of extended
writing.

528
00:21:27,310 --> 00:21:28,430
And you get a level.
Yeah.

529
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:29,920
And you get level at the end of
it, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

530
00:21:29,930 --> 00:21:31,790
It went off to be marked, which
we'll come to in a minute.

531
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,080
So that was one thing.
The next thing was it was way

532
00:21:34,090 --> 00:21:36,230
too subjective because it was
external markers.

533
00:21:36,290 --> 00:21:38,800
I'm imagining it was the same
system now where it's just you

534
00:21:38,810 --> 00:21:41,220
could just be an external
martial can apply to be that

535
00:21:41,230 --> 00:21:42,560
usually teachers doing.
It.

536
00:21:43,030 --> 00:21:46,600
One external marker.
Really, really subjective there

537
00:21:46,610 --> 00:21:48,460
based on their opinions on
writing.

538
00:21:48,530 --> 00:21:51,680
Yeah, because if they think, for
example if they value GPS,

539
00:21:51,690 --> 00:21:54,120
grammar, punctuation and things
much higher, much more highly

540
00:21:54,130 --> 00:21:57,180
than imagination, let's say.
But another writer values like

541
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:59,780
an amazing story, hooks them,
and they can forgive the odd

542
00:21:59,790 --> 00:22:02,280
capital letter exactly that.
They could both get the same

543
00:22:02,290 --> 00:22:03,630
level.
But if.

544
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,390
It's incomparable, isn't it?
Yeah.

545
00:22:05,450 --> 00:22:08,070
And again that was mentioned in
the report that bias towards,

546
00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:10,470
you know, punctuation and things
and some people valued more.

547
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,810
So it was a broken system and it
was interesting he was comparing

548
00:22:12,820 --> 00:22:15,130
with other countries as well and
saying that England was an

549
00:22:15,140 --> 00:22:17,680
anomaly because in basically
everywhere else in the world at

550
00:22:17,690 --> 00:22:19,680
the time that was doing writing
assessment in the same sort of

551
00:22:19,690 --> 00:22:23,090
way with an exam, there was
always at least two two external

552
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:25,190
markers not related.
They're just two people

553
00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:27,870
independently market and then
the kind of, you know, they look

554
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,200
amalgamation like anything from
the judges for anything like

555
00:22:31,210 --> 00:22:32,920
boxing or whatever.
You're not gonna have one

556
00:22:32,930 --> 00:22:34,920
person.
You have a few people and then

557
00:22:34,930 --> 00:22:37,290
you look at the scores to find
an average or something.

558
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:40,020
Yeah, so that was another thing.
The next one was, and I think

559
00:22:40,030 --> 00:22:42,780
this is a really fair point and
it was just unrealistic that

560
00:22:42,790 --> 00:22:45,100
every single child will perform
their best on that day.

561
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:47,550
Therefore, comparisons between
the children.

562
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,850
It's not really fair because
some kids, they're just not

563
00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:51,440
going to produce their best
piece of writing on that.

564
00:22:51,450 --> 00:22:52,770
Day.
Is that not true for any test

565
00:22:52,780 --> 00:22:54,500
ever?
Yeah, I guess so.

566
00:22:54,550 --> 00:22:56,480
I guess so, But I suppose at
least with.

567
00:22:56,650 --> 00:22:58,650
Let's take an example lease with
maths tests.

568
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,550
There are 110 questions sure for
you to get an idea of their

569
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,810
maths understanding, but they
might not perform their best on

570
00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:06,610
that coordinates question that
day.

571
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,870
But it's not going to be the be
all event and be all and end.

572
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,820
All OK, so it's not in the same
way more children are likely to

573
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:13,950
have a bad day writing than they
are about their man, I guess.

574
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,950
The comparison could be if there
was 7 writing assessments.

575
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,260
Sure.
At least I gave one of them.

576
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:21,320
You could look at you, but one
thing they weren't doing their

577
00:23:21,330 --> 00:23:22,180
best on that day.
But it wasn't.

578
00:23:22,190 --> 00:23:23,940
It was just this one opportunity
to write.

579
00:23:24,110 --> 00:23:26,680
And if you didn't do your best
on that day for whatever reason,

580
00:23:26,690 --> 00:23:29,070
external reasons, or you're just
nervous, or just you just feel

581
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,840
sick or whatever.
Like you already.

582
00:23:30,850 --> 00:23:33,510
Said, yeah, you know, it's just
not fair to be like, OK, all

583
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:34,820
these, all these kids did their
best.

584
00:23:34,830 --> 00:23:36,970
Let's compare them all.
Yeah, so that was another thing

585
00:23:36,980 --> 00:23:39,510
and two more things.
And it wasn't very reflective of

586
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,820
the writing process and it still
isn't.

587
00:23:40,830 --> 00:23:42,680
Now, if you think about the
writing process, if you're in

588
00:23:42,690 --> 00:23:46,720
schools, how often do you
actually to get an assessed

589
00:23:46,730 --> 00:23:48,760
piece of writing?
Do you just go to the kids 5

590
00:23:48,770 --> 00:23:50,470
minutes before they do it right
is what you doing, guys.

591
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,970
You're gonna write a newspaper
report and it's gonna be on

592
00:23:53,980 --> 00:23:54,580
this.
Off you go.

593
00:23:54,590 --> 00:23:57,260
I'm going to assess this piece
of writing you just wouldn't

594
00:23:57,270 --> 00:23:58,640
like.
Some schools do cold writes,

595
00:23:58,650 --> 00:24:00,330
don't they?
The start of a unit.

596
00:24:00,340 --> 00:24:03,080
They'll do a bit of writing like
that to then show them on the

597
00:24:03,090 --> 00:24:04,660
progress 3 weeks later or
whatever.

598
00:24:04,810 --> 00:24:06,900
But as a final piece, you don't
do that.

599
00:24:06,940 --> 00:24:09,160
And finally it was just and I'm
glad they mentioned this.

600
00:24:09,170 --> 00:24:11,290
It's just hard to mark it
literally just said.

601
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:13,140
It's just really difficult to
mark writing.

602
00:24:13,730 --> 00:24:15,960
And put it in a box.
We find that now.

603
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:18,550
We're gonna talk about it later
and how it's moved and like

604
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:19,650
what?
What it's gone to.

605
00:24:19,690 --> 00:24:22,610
Umm, but it I find that tricky
now.

606
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,400
I find I find that really hard.
So, OK, there's no, there's new

607
00:24:26,410 --> 00:24:27,420
systems.
Introduced.

608
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:29,210
Yeah, right, Following that
review, by the way.

609
00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:30,260
So that review came.
Out.

610
00:24:30,270 --> 00:24:31,930
So it was accepted and it was
widely different.

611
00:24:31,940 --> 00:24:34,560
OK fine.
So this this new system comes

612
00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:36,300
in.
I've spoken to people who were

613
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:38,440
around when it moved.
OK right.

614
00:24:38,450 --> 00:24:41,880
And and they say ah, but thank
goodness they got rid of the old

615
00:24:41,890 --> 00:24:44,000
way.
So as teachers who have

616
00:24:44,010 --> 00:24:46,880
qualified a bit later and only
know teacher assessment, which

617
00:24:46,890 --> 00:24:49,590
is away from the external test,
and we'll talk about what it is

618
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,740
now in a second.
But before we do, I know for a

619
00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:55,560
fact that move from a tested
assessment with one person.

620
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,990
I can get him out here.
Yeah.

621
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,270
To a more wholesome teacher
assessment project.

622
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,090
Right.
From the person who teaches them

623
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,970
over time, you're with them
every day.

624
00:25:03,020 --> 00:25:04,810
That was seen as a really good
move.

625
00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:06,570
Yeah.
So whatever we're about to say

626
00:25:06,580 --> 00:25:09,850
now, in terms of how the system
is, I don't think that the

627
00:25:09,860 --> 00:25:11,780
answer will be to go back to the
old system.

628
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,110
So it's really interesting then
what we see today.

629
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,050
Then we're gonna compare it with
what you're about to tell us.

630
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,830
What was supposed to happen.
What was it supposed to look

631
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,010
like when?
It was just, before I say that

632
00:25:23,020 --> 00:25:25,130
one little point to make because
I thought it was really

633
00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:29,020
interesting in this same report
that was suggesting we moved to

634
00:25:29,030 --> 00:25:31,120
teacher assessment of writing
over time.

635
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:34,320
It was also, as a good report
would do, it was kind of

636
00:25:34,330 --> 00:25:36,120
highlighting the flaws of
potential flaws of that as well.

637
00:25:36,130 --> 00:25:37,920
Yeah, and it was.
And it was just saying there is

638
00:25:37,930 --> 00:25:40,370
just one issue with teacher
assessment and that is just the

639
00:25:40,380 --> 00:25:42,080
reliability of it.
If you've got thousands of

640
00:25:42,090 --> 00:25:44,460
teachers across the country and
it's supposed to be a

641
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:48,090
standardised like testing
system, it's there's going to

642
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:49,290
be.
Some it's not going to solve

643
00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:51,340
that issue of it being hard to
mark and.

644
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:52,820
Judge and I thought this was
really interesting.

645
00:25:52,830 --> 00:25:53,870
I think you'll find this
interesting.

646
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,460
I just hadn't thought of this
before.

647
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:58,130
And one of the one of the points
they made in the review was that

648
00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:02,210
studies had shown that
minorities, yeah, had what under

649
00:26:02,220 --> 00:26:04,030
assessed compared to white
counterparts.

650
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,430
What?
When was the country in which?

651
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,560
In English writing.
During the test or after the

652
00:26:08,570 --> 00:26:10,270
test moved?
No, sorry.

653
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,260
They were doing some studies on
teacher assessment before

654
00:26:12,270 --> 00:26:13,690
they've done the changes, right.
OK.

655
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:16,400
Because some teacher assessment
was already happening and they

656
00:26:16,410 --> 00:26:18,550
were doing studies on it and
they were showing in order to be

657
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,700
able to say let's move to teach
basically had to see it was

658
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:22,060
exactly that.
And they were seeing there was

659
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:24,110
actually already an unfair bias.
Sure.

660
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,160
With minorities.
With minorities.

661
00:26:26,170 --> 00:26:28,000
And that was really.
Interesting said, well known

662
00:26:28,010 --> 00:26:30,480
thing with job applications and
stuff now.

663
00:26:30,490 --> 00:26:34,020
Yeah, you you've got to the
systems and stuff that big

664
00:26:34,030 --> 00:26:36,860
companies buy into where it's
completely anonymised.

665
00:26:36,910 --> 00:26:38,640
Yeah.
And and you don't see the name

666
00:26:38,650 --> 00:26:40,820
and stuff because it's it's just
proven beyond doubt.

667
00:26:40,930 --> 00:26:42,730
You know, there's some people
out there who get red in the

668
00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:45,140
face when anyone mentions
there's racism in the world,

669
00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:47,560
like, ohh there.
Is unconscious bias racism as

670
00:26:47,570 --> 00:26:49,020
well, that kind of stuff?
He Does he?

671
00:26:49,030 --> 00:26:50,620
Caught.
It exists, and it's been proven

672
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:54,120
time and time again that if you
see a name where you can

673
00:26:54,130 --> 00:26:57,910
associate that with an
ethnicity, that same CV with a

674
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,270
name which you associate with a
more traditional British English

675
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,470
white name.
Hmm.

676
00:27:01,580 --> 00:27:03,790
More often than not they go for
the traditional English white

677
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,230
name.
Yeah, unconsciously not.

678
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,280
Not saying someone sat there
being horribly racist with their

679
00:27:08,290 --> 00:27:10,780
mind, I'm gonna be horrible.
There might be, there might be.

680
00:27:10,790 --> 00:27:13,530
But also, even if they're not
consciously doing it, it's still

681
00:27:13,540 --> 00:27:15,580
a huge problem.
And if we're going to move to

682
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:17,360
teacher assessment, you need to
be aware of that.

683
00:27:17,370 --> 00:27:19,200
That's really.
Super interesting because I'd

684
00:27:19,210 --> 00:27:21,050
never really heard that argument
made before.

685
00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:23,530
Yeah, with teacher assessment.
Right, Yeah.

686
00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:25,010
And the second thing was, this
is really interesting.

687
00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:26,550
Probably laugh.
We're gonna talk about this a

688
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,660
lot later.
The teachers, there's there's a

689
00:27:28,670 --> 00:27:30,540
chance teachers will make
generous assessments.

690
00:27:30,610 --> 00:27:33,700
Yeah, if the pressure increases
under increasing pressure to

691
00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:36,760
like.
Perform guys TuneIn for this

692
00:27:36,770 --> 00:27:39,740
whole episode, please, because
we're gonna have a long chat I

693
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:42,900
think, at the end of this
episode about why that might be

694
00:27:42,910 --> 00:27:44,580
a problem and what we've seen, I
think.

695
00:27:44,590 --> 00:27:47,680
And more hard, I guess.
The answer to this, I guess from

696
00:27:47,690 --> 00:27:50,700
their point of view was OK, we
need some sort of moderation,

697
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:53,690
then we need to moderate.
Writing if we bring in teacher

698
00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:56,250
assessment.
Need to moderate?

699
00:27:56,260 --> 00:27:58,490
Let's look then what?
What it's supposed to be, then.

700
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:00,270
So they get rid of the test.
Yeah.

701
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:02,680
And this report comes out and
says, OK, look, we've looked at

702
00:28:02,690 --> 00:28:04,070
the drawbacks of teacher
assessment.

703
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,760
Yeah, we need to make sure all
of this is involved.

704
00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:08,110
And no problem.
We're going to move now away

705
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:11,630
from a test to this new system
where the teacher decides what

706
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,240
level the children are at.
Here's what it should look like.

707
00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:16,780
So what did they say at the
time, 2011?

708
00:28:16,790 --> 00:28:18,690
I'm going to read this.
I'm going to summarise it.

709
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:20,750
I'm going to read this to you.
I thought it was so interesting

710
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,610
I copied and pasted it here.
So 2 paragraphs.

711
00:28:23,620 --> 00:28:25,340
Can you read it in the voice of
what you think?

712
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,810
Now button kind of OK stop doing
it.

713
00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:31,890
Nothing it.
Would never do that.

714
00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:34,470
First off, you're like this bit,
OK?

715
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:35,670
And then this.
This is the juicy bit.

716
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:36,840
Alright, here we go.
Ready.

717
00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:37,590
Yes.
Read it.

718
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,090
Get.
Sorry.

719
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:39,050
Get comfortable.
So long old.

720
00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:41,080
Read coming up.
I like that they put this in and

721
00:28:41,090 --> 00:28:42,670
I knew you'd like it, which is
why did it did.

722
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,410
However, there is much more to
her writing than spelling,

723
00:28:45,420 --> 00:28:48,030
punctuation, grammar, vocabulary
and handwriting.

724
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,990
OK.
And we believe writing

725
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,350
composition in a wide range of
formats for different purposes

726
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,870
and audience should also be a
core part of the statutory

727
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,250
assessment of writing this.
This was in a chunk where I was

728
00:28:59,260 --> 00:29:02,480
talking about the reliability
of.

729
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,460
Basically teachers were
assessing the writing, but some

730
00:29:05,470 --> 00:29:08,340
were just basing it on SPAG GPS,
some were basing it on the

731
00:29:08,350 --> 00:29:10,500
creativity.
And it was like, can we accept

732
00:29:10,510 --> 00:29:12,360
that there is more to writing
than being able to put the

733
00:29:12,370 --> 00:29:13,270
commas in the right place?
But.

734
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,300
Here's the problem we're going
to talk about later, so I don't

735
00:29:15,310 --> 00:29:18,720
get too much into it, but as
soon as you open up creativity,

736
00:29:18,770 --> 00:29:21,280
as it should be, as it should
be, by the way.

737
00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:23,860
But as soon as you open that can
of worms to say we should also

738
00:29:23,870 --> 00:29:27,120
be judging the creativity of
their writing, it's so, like,

739
00:29:27,130 --> 00:29:28,340
subjective.
Yeah, it's hard.

740
00:29:28,410 --> 00:29:30,660
It's really, really hard.
Which is why we always fall back

741
00:29:30,670 --> 00:29:31,580
into.
Not exactly.

742
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:33,280
So we'll talk about later what
it sounded.

743
00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:35,680
What should it look?
Here's the juice I've been

744
00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:38,230
asking you for 10 minutes now.
This is what should it look.

745
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,790
This is the summary.
This is it.

746
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,640
This is what they suggested.
And I read this and I thought,

747
00:29:41,650 --> 00:29:44,030
wow, is this like, now you
should keep telling me what you

748
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,540
thought I'm building up.
This is called tension, Lord,

749
00:29:48,550 --> 00:29:49,380
Beer.
Suspense.

750
00:29:49,390 --> 00:29:50,150
Here we go.
Ready.

751
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,510
Yeah.
We do not wish the moderation

752
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,050
process to impose additional
burdens on teachers.

753
00:29:57,470 --> 00:30:00,020
We do not feel it would be
helpful or appropriate for

754
00:30:00,030 --> 00:30:04,320
schools to create portfolios of
work or specially prepared

755
00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:07,660
showpiece examples.
We believe it would be most

756
00:30:07,670 --> 00:30:10,720
appropriate for moderation to
review exercise books and other

757
00:30:10,730 --> 00:30:14,840
examples of marked written work
marked written marked of a range

758
00:30:14,850 --> 00:30:18,420
of purposes for a range of
purposes taken from the whole

759
00:30:18,430 --> 00:30:20,870
teaching year.
This could include written work

760
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,810
from other subjects as well as
English.

761
00:30:23,050 --> 00:30:26,140
If moderators review marked work
produced in the course of

762
00:30:26,150 --> 00:30:29,290
everyday teaching in year six,
together with the teachers

763
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:33,150
associated comments really clear
here, they will get a strong

764
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,770
sense both of the pupils
attainment and the teachers

765
00:30:35,780 --> 00:30:38,330
assessment skill.
Yeah, without creating any

766
00:30:38,340 --> 00:30:40,960
additional workload.
Yeah, we feel it may also be

767
00:30:40,970 --> 00:30:43,730
helpful for moderators to have
the option of meeting the pupils

768
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:46,890
whose work they have.
Reviewed Wow, Right Can I?

769
00:30:47,670 --> 00:30:49,930
Supposed to be?
Can I summarise quickly here?

770
00:30:49,980 --> 00:30:52,440
Because the the gist I'm getting
from this is to correct me if

771
00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:54,610
I'm wrong.
From you reading that, to me,

772
00:30:54,700 --> 00:30:58,170
the idea is that we're going to
assess teachers to assess the

773
00:30:58,180 --> 00:30:59,980
writing.
Yeah, don't do anything

774
00:30:59,990 --> 00:31:01,430
differently.
You continue to teach your

775
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:02,970
children writing throughout the
year.

776
00:31:03,140 --> 00:31:06,110
At the end of the year, pick up
their exercise book, look at

777
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,470
everything they've produced and
done.

778
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,460
Yep.
And then come to an assessment

779
00:31:09,470 --> 00:31:13,030
where it's like, OK, well, cool.
If I'm moderating this now, I

780
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,200
can see the teachers picked up
capital letters at the start of

781
00:31:15,210 --> 00:31:17,550
the year, full stops.
And I can see that's moved a bit

782
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,990
across here.
This person still working on

783
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,090
maybe putting clauses together
with conjunctions or maybe even

784
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:25,460
stretching their right and with
semicolons and really pushing

785
00:31:25,470 --> 00:31:27,840
their punctuation.
But also I can see, yeah, we've

786
00:31:27,850 --> 00:31:30,180
done a lovely diary entry here
and then they've moved on to a

787
00:31:30,190 --> 00:31:33,320
nonfiction, non chronological
report and I can see here a

788
00:31:33,330 --> 00:31:34,730
newspaper report.
That's really tricky.

789
00:31:34,740 --> 00:31:36,890
The transferable skills.
Yeah, I can, I can see coming

790
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:39,780
across here all these things.
So like a holistic approach,

791
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:41,450
which is just looking at the
year that they've been?

792
00:31:41,460 --> 00:31:42,700
Given to the child a bit as
well.

793
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:44,660
Yeah, talk to child, talk to the
teacher.

794
00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:47,220
Really holistic.
I don't want to see these

795
00:31:47,230 --> 00:31:50,660
published pieces of work in this
special book where the teacher

796
00:31:50,670 --> 00:31:52,650
hasn't touched it.
I just want to look at their

797
00:31:52,660 --> 00:31:54,980
book because it doesn't need to
be extra work guys.

798
00:31:55,090 --> 00:31:58,590
You don't need to go home and
spend your half term, you know,

799
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,230
doing this, doing a basically a
moderation every single time you

800
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:02,650
mark.
Yeah, they're independent

801
00:32:02,660 --> 00:32:04,190
writing.
Yeah, just just teach them

802
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,320
English and then we'll just look
at their whole book of because

803
00:32:06,330 --> 00:32:09,230
I'm professional enough to look
at that writing and know when

804
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,460
it's the kids handwriting and
know when it's the teacher

805
00:32:11,470 --> 00:32:13,490
suggesting to do something.
I'm not stupid.

806
00:32:13,540 --> 00:32:15,650
I can see when the kids have
done it themselves.

807
00:32:15,850 --> 00:32:18,060
Because they wrote it, it's
really weird because all the

808
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:20,430
work in between they're
independent rights is terrible,

809
00:32:20,740 --> 00:32:22,500
but when it comes to their big
right, it's really good.

810
00:32:22,510 --> 00:32:23,650
So yeah, look at the whole.
Book.

811
00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:25,040
OK, so that's really
interesting.

812
00:32:25,050 --> 00:32:26,950
So that's what it should have
looked like.

813
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,090
Yeah.
OK, so I guess my point here is

814
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,010
what kind of so that that came
in cool.

815
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,730
Obviously we know over time it's
been eroded and the pressure has

816
00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:39,350
increased like they said it was
gonna be.

817
00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:43,090
I want to talk firstly about
this whole idea of independent

818
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:45,450
writing.
So what we've seen here in the

819
00:32:45,460 --> 00:32:47,990
suggestion in the lobbies report
over a decade ago now, just over

820
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,550
a decade, is you simply teach
writing.

821
00:32:50,940 --> 00:32:55,970
Writing is really complicated.
Writing I think, is the hardest

822
00:32:55,980 --> 00:32:59,070
thing to teach children well,
and the hardest thing to get

823
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,500
really good work out of the
children you're teaching them.

824
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,550
You can model things and you can
follow processes and you can

825
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,840
have these kind of crutches to
go onto.

826
00:33:06,850 --> 00:33:09,090
And once you kind of you know
how to add, you know how to add.

827
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:11,130
Once you know how to work out
the mean average, you know how

828
00:33:11,140 --> 00:33:14,610
to work out the mean average.
Practise with with English

829
00:33:14,620 --> 00:33:16,970
comprehension.
Even reading, reading, reading

830
00:33:16,980 --> 00:33:19,080
clarify meaning.
That's harder than maths,

831
00:33:19,090 --> 00:33:21,130
reading comprehension.
Because you can't teach children

832
00:33:21,140 --> 00:33:23,440
what all of the words mean.
You can't teach children all of

833
00:33:23,450 --> 00:33:26,060
the spellings are you can do
spelling rules, you can teach

834
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:28,810
them ways of trying to work out
what a word might mean.

835
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,670
You can teach them retrieval
skills.

836
00:33:30,740 --> 00:33:32,730
Cool.
When it comes to writing.

837
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,860
Hmm.
It's really hard.

838
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:38,700
Because suddenly we need to
judge them on independent

839
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:41,400
writing.
We need to see what these

840
00:33:41,410 --> 00:33:44,780
children can do themselves when
they sit and write.

841
00:33:44,790 --> 00:33:47,200
That makes sense.
Of course we're going to assess

842
00:33:47,210 --> 00:33:48,960
children what they can do.
When I'm saying to them, telling

843
00:33:48,970 --> 00:33:50,970
them what to do, that's
completely pointless.

844
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:53,950
It's really hard to do that
though.

845
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,250
I just want to get that across
to people.

846
00:33:55,260 --> 00:33:57,690
It's it's really hard to get
good writing.

847
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,610
So is this system now because of
teacher assessment?

848
00:34:03,660 --> 00:34:09,010
Do you think that has directly
caused a an an increase in

849
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,620
teachers being generous with
their assessment teachers being

850
00:34:12,630 --> 00:34:16,310
stressed teachers basically.
And the overall point of this

851
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,850
section I want to be is how
independent is their independent

852
00:34:19,860 --> 00:34:25,139
writing at the minute?
I think it's a totally, totally

853
00:34:25,150 --> 00:34:28,590
broken system, right?
I read the review and I felt I

854
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,560
almost forgot that this 2024 and
I thought I was back in 2011.

855
00:34:31,650 --> 00:34:33,780
I read that review last night
and I thought, this is really

856
00:34:33,790 --> 00:34:35,580
good.
Yeah, I actually like this.

857
00:34:35,590 --> 00:34:37,679
I like what this was suggesting
and I think this was a massively

858
00:34:37,690 --> 00:34:40,159
positive change.
I just don't think it happened

859
00:34:40,409 --> 00:34:45,040
because that what I just read
there is not the not the reality

860
00:34:45,050 --> 00:34:46,969
right now.
That's not how things happen.

861
00:34:46,980 --> 00:34:49,159
You know, you, you, you go
around to a school, the chances

862
00:34:49,170 --> 00:34:51,670
are they do have these, what do
they call it?

863
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:54,150
Showpiece examples.
Specially prepared showpiece

864
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:56,880
examples in a separate book.
They do have them.

865
00:34:56,929 --> 00:35:01,160
But but OK, explain to people
then why do they have these

866
00:35:01,170 --> 00:35:05,200
published bits of work?
It's honestly the harsh, really

867
00:35:05,210 --> 00:35:09,180
harsh reality of that is, is so
that they can further assess

868
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:11,600
their children.
That is the only reason.

869
00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:13,780
It's not because, Oh yeah,
because we really value our

870
00:35:13,790 --> 00:35:15,540
children rewriting all of their
work again.

871
00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:17,560
Because you think about it, it's
almost a complete.

872
00:35:17,570 --> 00:35:19,950
Waste of schools.
Schools, I think, try to, when

873
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,050
they try to convince themselves
that they're not doing the wrong

874
00:35:22,060 --> 00:35:25,210
thing, they do try to say things
like ohh because it's great for

875
00:35:25,220 --> 00:35:27,630
the children, because they get
to see they're finished writing,

876
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,630
all published, all nicely, get
don't care.

877
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,520
No, I've never met a kid in my
life.

878
00:35:31,530 --> 00:35:33,770
That cared about that, Can I,
can I talk about the process

879
00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:35,100
with a published piece of work?
Yeah.

880
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,650
So very clearly here what we're
supposed to do is just teach

881
00:35:37,660 --> 00:35:40,550
kids writing.
It says explicitly look for,

882
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,490
look for a teacher, comments and
assessment.

883
00:35:42,500 --> 00:35:45,170
Because we can see how well the
teachers can give feedback.

884
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:47,570
And also you can use the
teachers feedback to see whether

885
00:35:47,870 --> 00:35:48,960
they're doing as well.
That's the.

886
00:35:48,970 --> 00:35:52,110
Point and has been edited by
them, given the teacher

887
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,470
feedback.
Because, yeah, it's independent

888
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,100
writing.
They're in the room still.

889
00:35:55,170 --> 00:35:57,150
Yeah, you know, we're still
gonna help the children to

890
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,740
achieve well, but they still
need to do it.

891
00:35:58,930 --> 00:36:00,840
But with a published piece of
work.

892
00:36:00,850 --> 00:36:02,960
And you're probably if you're
sat at home working in a school,

893
00:36:02,970 --> 00:36:04,300
you probably know exactly what
I'm gonna say.

894
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:06,120
And if you don't, this is what
happens in schools.

895
00:36:06,130 --> 00:36:09,600
This is what when you see rule
writings, everyone's expected at

896
00:36:09,610 --> 00:36:10,940
writing, everyone's expected
level.

897
00:36:11,150 --> 00:36:14,180
It's because this is happening.
There is no school in the land,

898
00:36:14,190 --> 00:36:17,360
in my opinion, where completely
independent in the land, in the

899
00:36:17,370 --> 00:36:19,820
land, they're completely
independently.

900
00:36:19,870 --> 00:36:22,580
A whole class of children are
meeting the expected standard in

901
00:36:22,590 --> 00:36:24,260
writing.
The expected standard in

902
00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:25,770
writing.
Incredibly hard to get.

903
00:36:25,780 --> 00:36:28,140
It's the hardest of all of.
Them Why is the expected

904
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:30,530
standard of writing now so
stupidly high?

905
00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:31,920
We'll.
Talk about that in one second.

906
00:36:31,930 --> 00:36:33,380
But what happens when they
publish?

907
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:36,520
Yeah, this is what happens.
Children will write a piece of

908
00:36:36,530 --> 00:36:39,010
writing.
OK, it might be that they've

909
00:36:39,020 --> 00:36:41,580
been given a prompt.
It might be that on the

910
00:36:41,590 --> 00:36:43,600
whiteboard there's loads of
sentence starters.

911
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:47,240
It might be that next to them on
their table is an entire example

912
00:36:47,250 --> 00:36:48,920
of what they're supposed to be
writing, where they can

913
00:36:48,930 --> 00:36:51,080
constantly look at it and just
change the words around a bit

914
00:36:51,090 --> 00:36:53,670
and make it their own and kind
of change their theme.

915
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,230
Maybe that's a non quality
report and lizards and they're

916
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,990
gonna write a non chronological
report and sloths and they can

917
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,830
get a lot of the sentence
structures and copy them into

918
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,730
their book.
And then once that's written,

919
00:37:02,820 --> 00:37:07,190
the teacher can painstakingly be
forced to go through that like a

920
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,680
fine tooth comb and get
everything that's wrong with

921
00:37:10,690 --> 00:37:13,000
that piece of work.
Writing it, cross it out,

922
00:37:13,060 --> 00:37:15,400
rewrite it, put the right thing
here.

923
00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:17,110
Why don't you try this sentence
starter?

924
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,490
Fix all of these full stops.
You've got no capital letters

925
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:22,150
for common nouns in there.
Why don't you extend this

926
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,790
sentence with this and write the
end of a sentence completely

927
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,190
right all over it.
Ohh gosh no.

928
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,130
The moderator can't see that
though because it's my work now

929
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,950
it's it's the teachers work.
So maybe we could get the

930
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,750
children to publish.
Yes cause publishing is

931
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,150
brilliant for the children and
it's not a complete waste of a

932
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,120
lesson just to get them to copy
out the teachers work which

933
00:37:41,130 --> 00:37:43,270
they've written down.
Yes, let's get them to publish

934
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,690
it in a publishing Dylan.
And then the moderator can only

935
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:47,370
look at the publishing.
Yes, we won't take the other

936
00:37:47,380 --> 00:37:48,650
book.
No, let's not take the finished

937
00:37:48,660 --> 00:37:49,760
work.
We don't want to show them.

938
00:37:49,770 --> 00:37:51,570
No.
Yeah, wanna showed that with

939
00:37:51,580 --> 00:37:53,970
completely cheated, which is,
which is what it is.

940
00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:58,380
It's cheating the class teacher
and I've heard stories, Hayden.

941
00:37:58,450 --> 00:38:00,600
Luckily I've not been involved
in anything like this

942
00:38:00,610 --> 00:38:02,860
personally.
I've heard stories from people

943
00:38:03,350 --> 00:38:07,310
where they have been forced to
literally take all of the books

944
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,160
home.
Yeah, by SLT who are desperate

945
00:38:10,170 --> 00:38:11,540
for the good scores to come
along.

946
00:38:11,610 --> 00:38:14,310
And I will say this, we we
bashed SLT sometimes and I do

947
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,280
feel bad because there are some
amazing leaders out there.

948
00:38:16,350 --> 00:38:17,670
We work right now with some
people.

949
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,420
I would never want to do that at
all with them.

950
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:22,100
But you hear horror stories.
I will say though with writing

951
00:38:22,110 --> 00:38:24,640
it is really widespread.
This is very common and the

952
00:38:24,650 --> 00:38:27,310
extremes of it is they get
forced to take their books.

953
00:38:27,590 --> 00:38:31,900
This is a person I knew of who
trained with me and had to

954
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:36,330
literally type up, rewrite that
every piece of work from the

955
00:38:36,340 --> 00:38:39,760
writing that was in the work.
Fix it, write up, type it, print

956
00:38:39,770 --> 00:38:43,210
it, give it to the children and
say OK here you go, I fixed

957
00:38:43,220 --> 00:38:44,860
everything.
The children would have to sit

958
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:46,590
there and copy it into their.
Publishing as well, so they

959
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,460
could say that the.
Kids, So they so that they could

960
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:51,220
then go to the moderator and
say, look, no teacher writing,

961
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:54,280
it's completely the work of the
children, Totally independent.

962
00:38:54,330 --> 00:38:55,630
Yeah.
And if they took their work,

963
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,080
which they took in the first
place.

964
00:38:57,550 --> 00:38:59,910
Nowhere near it.
And and this fudging is a

965
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,950
constant cycle because if one
score does it, Oh my God they're

966
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,440
scores are amazing.
OK, well we need to do

967
00:39:04,450 --> 00:39:06,050
something.
We're gonna have to put post it

968
00:39:06,060 --> 00:39:08,150
notes in their book every single
time there's a mistake.

969
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,730
And then and then ohh, you know
what's great about post it?

970
00:39:10,740 --> 00:39:13,340
Note we can rip them out at the
end and it looks like the kids

971
00:39:13,350 --> 00:39:15,430
did it themselves.
Yeah, it's cheating.

972
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:16,990
They're cheating is so
widespread.

973
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,210
In this writing, moderation,
it's just normalised now as

974
00:39:19,220 --> 00:39:20,410
well.
You know, I've been to lots of

975
00:39:20,420 --> 00:39:22,610
writing moderations and it is
totally normalised.

976
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,160
When I see now, I actually
refuse to do it.

977
00:39:25,170 --> 00:39:27,050
Now I don't care.
I think the rules are stupid and

978
00:39:27,060 --> 00:39:29,200
I'll sit there and justify
moderation every single time I

979
00:39:29,210 --> 00:39:30,520
write in that book.
Every single time.

980
00:39:30,530 --> 00:39:31,790
Yeah, I'll write all over their
work.

981
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,500
I'll give them feedback every
single time because that's how

982
00:39:34,510 --> 00:39:35,490
they learn.
Yeah.

983
00:39:35,550 --> 00:39:37,650
So whenever I see now in
moderation, which is basically

984
00:39:37,660 --> 00:39:40,740
every single book from anyone
else, when I look at their work

985
00:39:40,750 --> 00:39:42,900
and their last eight bits of
independent writing have got no

986
00:39:42,910 --> 00:39:44,680
teacher comments on them or
anything.

987
00:39:44,690 --> 00:39:48,480
I'm like ohh so they just they
just what they just knew what

988
00:39:48,490 --> 00:39:49,360
to.
Do they?

989
00:39:49,490 --> 00:39:50,590
Would you have?
Of course.

990
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,220
You've given them feedback,
yeah.

991
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:54,280
The fact that you haven't given
them feedback in the book, like

992
00:39:54,290 --> 00:39:56,690
you would do for every other
subject ever, means that you've

993
00:39:56,700 --> 00:39:58,320
actively thought, I won't do
that.

994
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,490
That's cheating.
I'll hide it.

995
00:39:59,540 --> 00:40:02,050
I'll hide the marking and I'll
do it some other way.

996
00:40:02,060 --> 00:40:03,880
It's it's obvious.
It's obvious.

997
00:40:03,890 --> 00:40:05,020
Yeah.
And a lot of you probably

998
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:06,740
listening right now.
And I wouldn't be surprised

999
00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:09,190
we're not having a go at you.
I wouldn't be surprised if

1000
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,660
you're if you're a year six
teacher, particularly if you do

1001
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:14,060
something like this and it
probably wasn't even your idea.

1002
00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:15,770
And you probably at first
thought, this is stupid and

1003
00:40:15,780 --> 00:40:17,630
taking up loads of my time, but
you do it anyway because that's

1004
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:18,610
what everyone does.
Yeah.

1005
00:40:18,660 --> 00:40:20,980
And, you know, I've, you know,
I've worked in year six for many

1006
00:40:20,990 --> 00:40:22,850
years.
I've seen many different systems

1007
00:40:22,860 --> 00:40:24,690
of doing these things.
And I've seen a lot.

1008
00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:27,160
And I've met lots of teachers in
lots of schools who have all

1009
00:40:27,170 --> 00:40:28,660
these crazy fun ways of
cheating.

1010
00:40:28,730 --> 00:40:30,350
Every single person justifies
it.

1011
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,630
Yeah.
Ohh no, no no no.

1012
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,670
It's for this is that I do post
it notes to their work.

1013
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,450
Not covered in no it's not.
You don't post it notes so that

1014
00:40:36,460 --> 00:40:38,200
you can take them out and
pretend that they did that.

1015
00:40:38,210 --> 00:40:39,840
Themselves.
So very quick clarification.

1016
00:40:39,850 --> 00:40:42,100
The way that moderation process
works for anyone who's wondering

1017
00:40:42,110 --> 00:40:45,090
right now is it's not like every
single book ever goes to a

1018
00:40:45,100 --> 00:40:47,170
moderator and the moderator
picks what, what level?

1019
00:40:47,180 --> 00:40:50,970
They're so schools
systematically.

1020
00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:53,090
And you know what, Why wouldn't
you do this?

1021
00:40:53,100 --> 00:40:55,390
I suppose it's it's it's less
cheating than what we've just

1022
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,230
talked about in the book.
But a lot of schools will.

1023
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,700
I'll go back to the start.
Schools will look at their year

1024
00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:05,500
six children as they're writing
and the teachers will almost

1025
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:08,580
always do some self moderation.
So all the year six teachers

1026
00:41:08,590 --> 00:41:09,920
might come in.
If you're in a small school,

1027
00:41:09,930 --> 00:41:11,620
maybe you'll get other schools
to come in and bring their

1028
00:41:11,630 --> 00:41:12,930
books.
This is not an official

1029
00:41:12,940 --> 00:41:15,180
moderation.
Yeah, this is simply a simply a

1030
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:16,570
practise and this is good
practise.

1031
00:41:16,580 --> 00:41:18,820
This is a good thing to do, is
to look at other schools, look

1032
00:41:18,830 --> 00:41:21,950
at other classes get together
and really show where your

1033
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,360
levels are.
Because as a teacher we need to

1034
00:41:24,370 --> 00:41:26,290
assess children who are below
key stage.

1035
00:41:26,610 --> 00:41:29,020
We need to assess children who
are working towards the key

1036
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:31,100
stage level.
We need to assess children who

1037
00:41:31,110 --> 00:41:33,010
are expected, where they should
be for writing.

1038
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,470
And we need to also have a bar
for where children are greater

1039
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,490
depth they're exceeding they're
amazing writers.

1040
00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:42,010
So there's four levels to think
about really, and and the bar

1041
00:41:42,060 --> 00:41:46,910
for where children have to be to
be expected where they should be

1042
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,660
in year six is so much higher
than any bar for any other

1043
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:53,250
lesson.
For any other piece of work to

1044
00:41:53,260 --> 00:41:56,610
be expected in maths, you've got
to be a decent mathematician.

1045
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,310
You can get expected in maths if
you're really good at arithmetic

1046
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,640
and get the odd reasoning
question.

1047
00:42:00,650 --> 00:42:04,300
It it's you know it, it's you
can be a fine, you can be an OK

1048
00:42:04,310 --> 00:42:07,940
mathematician and get expected.
For reading, again, you need to

1049
00:42:07,950 --> 00:42:10,240
be able to read and understand
the text, but if you can read

1050
00:42:10,250 --> 00:42:12,060
and understand the text, you're
probably going to get to

1051
00:42:12,070 --> 00:42:14,100
expected.
Level and the threshold for the

1052
00:42:14,110 --> 00:42:16,200
Sats is normally like half the
marks.

1053
00:42:16,510 --> 00:42:18,330
You just need to show that you
got a good understanding.

1054
00:42:18,340 --> 00:42:20,140
Exactly.
So you know reaching expected in

1055
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:21,490
those.
If you're not reaching expected

1056
00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:24,020
in those, it's got to be for a.
Reason.

1057
00:42:24,030 --> 00:42:26,420
And it is actually a genuine
indication of OK, you are, you

1058
00:42:26,430 --> 00:42:28,810
are sort of below the standard
of writing, yeah.

1059
00:42:28,850 --> 00:42:30,650
And I'm just going to go to jump
in here.

1060
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:32,400
You know, you're you're a year
six teacher.

1061
00:42:32,450 --> 00:42:35,610
Oh my God, I I am not
exaggerating when I say this and

1062
00:42:35,620 --> 00:42:38,200
I've said this for years.
I think the expected level for

1063
00:42:38,210 --> 00:42:42,240
writing that bar that is set
should be equivalent for leaving

1064
00:42:42,250 --> 00:42:44,340
secondary school, leaving
second.

1065
00:42:44,350 --> 00:42:48,660
I think it is sixth form level
writing because to be expected,

1066
00:42:48,670 --> 00:42:50,950
genuine, expected, everyone
fudges it.

1067
00:42:51,110 --> 00:42:55,880
But to be actually expected on
paper, you have to be a perfect.

1068
00:42:55,890 --> 00:42:58,500
Writer OK, so come on in.
So there are levels, like we

1069
00:42:58,510 --> 00:43:00,040
said, working towards you're not
quite there.

1070
00:43:00,090 --> 00:43:02,340
Obviously that's going to just a
lot because you're not.

1071
00:43:02,350 --> 00:43:03,970
Quite.
I think probably about 80% of

1072
00:43:03,980 --> 00:43:05,790
kids in the UK are actually are
actually working.

1073
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,030
OK, so expected level for
writing.

1074
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,320
Yeah.
OK, what as as someone who has

1075
00:43:10,330 --> 00:43:12,690
no idea, or maybe they're in
year six and they're new?

1076
00:43:12,740 --> 00:43:16,950
Or what should we see in a piece
of writing from a child to be

1077
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,970
able to officially, properly
without fudging anything from

1078
00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:21,840
their independent writing?
What should we be able?

1079
00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:24,300
To say it's all, it would almost
be easier to say what What can

1080
00:43:24,310 --> 00:43:26,610
they get away with?
OK, because otherwise otherwise

1081
00:43:26,620 --> 00:43:28,290
I'm just going to list every
single element.

1082
00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:28,750
Of Right.
OK.

1083
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,470
So obviously they need to
understand everything.

1084
00:43:31,180 --> 00:43:33,020
Decision has to be perfect, so
the structure has to be perfect.

1085
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:35,120
They have to have written across
a variety of genres.

1086
00:43:35,170 --> 00:43:37,560
So this is this is a macro level
of you have to take into.

1087
00:43:37,570 --> 00:43:39,480
Account of writing.
So, you know, you look at across

1088
00:43:39,490 --> 00:43:42,400
that book, OK?
Punctuation has to be perfect.

1089
00:43:42,510 --> 00:43:44,070
And I'm not joking.
What do you mean punctuation?

1090
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,110
Are we talking about
punctuation?

1091
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,700
I'm talking, yeah, honestly.
Capital letters, full stops,

1092
00:43:49,770 --> 00:43:51,880
commas in all of their youth.
Which is a lot.

1093
00:43:51,950 --> 00:43:56,060
Parenthesis, so we're talking.
Brackets, dashes, colons, and

1094
00:43:56,070 --> 00:43:58,660
semicolons are where you can
start getting on to greater

1095
00:43:58,670 --> 00:44:00,560
depth.
But even still, these days I

1096
00:44:00,570 --> 00:44:01,810
think the bar is increasing
more.

1097
00:44:01,820 --> 00:44:04,000
You can see a semicolon and
colon, and they're still, you

1098
00:44:04,010 --> 00:44:06,140
know, that's just about
expected, right?

1099
00:44:06,610 --> 00:44:08,030
All the punctuation needs to be
there.

1100
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,600
Speech needs to be perfectly
punctuated.

1101
00:44:09,610 --> 00:44:10,700
New line.
New speaker.

1102
00:44:10,740 --> 00:44:13,990
Capital letter to start beach
end punctuation properly inside

1103
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,160
Yeah you know where Commerce
question mark Where's comma

1104
00:44:16,170 --> 00:44:19,180
exclamation mark inside.
Understanding reported speech.

1105
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:22,130
Directed and direct speech and
how to lay that out.

1106
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,450
It all, all of it, has to.
Contractions and spelling.

1107
00:44:25,500 --> 00:44:26,550
Right.
Contractions.

1108
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,110
All the spelling has to be
there, the handwriting.

1109
00:44:28,180 --> 00:44:30,690
And the point is we've expected.
Writing, unlike other tests, is

1110
00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:35,760
you have to have evidenced every
single one to be expected, if

1111
00:44:35,770 --> 00:44:38,910
you've done all of it right.
But you're terrible at spelling

1112
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,230
homophones.
There is an argument there to

1113
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,580
say that kid is not affected.
Now the only only thing that

1114
00:44:44,590 --> 00:44:46,260
might save you is and they
introduce this.

1115
00:44:46,270 --> 00:44:49,480
I don't know when, but I guess
to help this situation is a

1116
00:44:49,490 --> 00:44:51,980
child is allowed one special
weakness.

1117
00:44:52,050 --> 00:44:55,780
But but am I right in thinking
that it can't be spelling, it

1118
00:44:55,790 --> 00:44:58,360
has to be like it has to be Ed
suffix?

1119
00:44:58,370 --> 00:45:00,250
Exactly that.
It can't just be an overarching

1120
00:45:00,260 --> 00:45:02,200
thing.
It can be handwriting, OK?

1121
00:45:02,430 --> 00:45:04,670
Because some kids just.
Struggle and when the age now

1122
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,970
where is as important as it was.
Before, and I've had a lot.

1123
00:45:07,980 --> 00:45:10,400
And it's funny, because I found
a lot of my best writers often

1124
00:45:10,410 --> 00:45:12,230
have.
But here's the thing, though.

1125
00:45:12,310 --> 00:45:15,020
So as soon as right as soon as
handwriting bad, that gives that

1126
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:17,280
child no leeway whatsoever for
anything else.

1127
00:45:17,350 --> 00:45:18,230
Yeah, basically.
Right.

1128
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,450
So that's the thing.
I'll I'll pick out one of the

1129
00:45:20,460 --> 00:45:22,500
smaller things, modal verbs.
Right.

1130
00:45:22,510 --> 00:45:25,210
Yeah, so if if a if a child
could, yeah, if a child has

1131
00:45:25,220 --> 00:45:27,700
written perfectly beautiful
writing, like they're really

1132
00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:30,140
creative and they're punctuation
is great, right?

1133
00:45:30,190 --> 00:45:31,550
And you look through their
writing.

1134
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,200
If you're doing it by the book,
if you look for their writing

1135
00:45:34,210 --> 00:45:36,540
and you haven't seen any good
example, any examples of modal

1136
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:38,810
verbs being used correctly, they
are not expected.

1137
00:45:38,820 --> 00:45:40,360
That's crazy.
That's technically how it should

1138
00:45:40,370 --> 00:45:40,840
be.
Done.

1139
00:45:40,890 --> 00:45:42,480
Yeah.
Writing moderation.

1140
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:43,450
Does that happen?
I don't know.

1141
00:45:43,460 --> 00:45:45,910
It depends on who you're.
With so as someone who's outside

1142
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,120
of the year 6 bubble and stuff,
so I've done year three-year

1143
00:45:49,130 --> 00:45:52,190
four and year five.
It kind of each score each

1144
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,690
district has their own way of
almost extrapolating down what a

1145
00:45:55,700 --> 00:45:58,170
year six expected is.
So they'll say, OK, by year five

1146
00:45:58,180 --> 00:46:00,440
we should be hitting all of this
stuff because then in year six

1147
00:46:00,450 --> 00:46:01,910
we can just go over everything
and introduce.

1148
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,170
The colon semicolon because
there is no official standard

1149
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:05,750
for each year.
It's just end of key stage.

1150
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,650
Two, so like for me looking in,
I I can honestly say that I

1151
00:46:09,660 --> 00:46:12,570
think even at year four level
because we're extrapolating the

1152
00:46:12,580 --> 00:46:14,410
children are less proficient at
writing.

1153
00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:16,490
Yeah, I still think the level
for expected is crazy.

1154
00:46:16,500 --> 00:46:18,140
Yeah.
And never think about my cohorts

1155
00:46:18,810 --> 00:46:23,200
I, I I I probably get because
I'm I'm really truthful and

1156
00:46:23,210 --> 00:46:25,500
everything and it's always
completely independent.

1157
00:46:25,570 --> 00:46:29,380
I get about 50 to 60% to
expected in my coach is probably

1158
00:46:29,390 --> 00:46:31,140
good and I think that that's
that's good.

1159
00:46:31,150 --> 00:46:34,280
If I get half too expected, they
should stay expected and then

1160
00:46:34,290 --> 00:46:36,450
hopefully we're gonna get some
others, push it up a bit but.

1161
00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:38,890
Hopefully in year six it's
suddenly deny 90%.

1162
00:46:38,900 --> 00:46:40,820
Of the nation.
It's weird because it goes from

1163
00:46:40,890 --> 00:46:47,830
15% in year, 330%, your 435%
year five and then 94% easy.

1164
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,770
Yeah, this year 16, she's bloody
good, aren't they?

1165
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,450
But yeah, I mean it's just, it
seems mad.

1166
00:46:53,460 --> 00:46:55,650
So I'll very quickly if that's
expected level.

1167
00:46:55,700 --> 00:46:58,000
OK, So it sounds like it's
impossible to get.

1168
00:46:58,010 --> 00:46:59,350
Yeah.
What's great at that?

1169
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,010
Greater depth is unreal.
I'm just gonna vent for a

1170
00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:03,720
second.
Right, greater depth.

1171
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:06,920
The bar for greater depth is so
high.

1172
00:47:06,930 --> 00:47:08,770
If you're saying expected is
like secondary.

1173
00:47:08,780 --> 00:47:10,880
School expected is you need to
be a perfect writer.

1174
00:47:10,890 --> 00:47:13,270
Yeah, yeah, so.
With with like very, very minor,

1175
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,520
you know there's such a small
room for like a margin of error

1176
00:47:16,530 --> 00:47:17,880
there, such a small.
I'm.

1177
00:47:17,890 --> 00:47:21,150
I'm thinking another word, which
I hear all of the time in

1178
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,070
moderation because obviously we
go to moderation for year four,

1179
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,100
You're free year five.
Yeah.

1180
00:47:24,110 --> 00:47:25,700
And I know it's a big thing for
year six.

1181
00:47:25,710 --> 00:47:28,980
And I hate it because we talked
about how subjective writing is.

1182
00:47:28,990 --> 00:47:31,500
OK, Yeah.
The number one word I hear when

1183
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:33,080
someone asks, are they greater
depth?

1184
00:47:33,150 --> 00:47:35,820
They go, oh, where's that flare?
The flare all.

1185
00:47:35,830 --> 00:47:37,590
Where's that flare?
I hate it.

1186
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,010
Where's that flare?
What do you?

1187
00:47:39,020 --> 00:47:42,110
Mean This is where some reason
we then bring back in the

1188
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:43,730
creativity.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1189
00:47:43,740 --> 00:47:44,430
yeah, yeah, yeah.
And.

1190
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,170
Then it goes down to this
completely, completely.

1191
00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:50,510
Subject so to be expected.
Grammar, punctuation, spelling

1192
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,270
doesn't matter.
It's monotonous and boring to

1193
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,450
read because all I'm scanning
for is capital letters.

1194
00:47:54,460 --> 00:47:57,160
Generally I don't read it and
enjoy it.

1195
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,610
So greater depths.
Ohh crap Yeah wait.

1196
00:47:59,620 --> 00:48:00,380
But it needs to be.
Good.

1197
00:48:00,390 --> 00:48:02,890
Greater depth is basically
you've got your own authorial

1198
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:04,400
style.
That's crazy.

1199
00:48:04,410 --> 00:48:07,770
It is perfect. 10 year old.
No, I'm, I'm talking now 10

1200
00:48:07,780 --> 00:48:09,000
years.
There is no leeway now.

1201
00:48:09,010 --> 00:48:11,600
Yeah, so I've brought books that
I thought are greater depth to

1202
00:48:11,610 --> 00:48:13,530
moderation before and I've had
them knocked down because they

1203
00:48:13,540 --> 00:48:16,460
looked, they found like a
mistake in a piece of writing

1204
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:18,940
and being like, well, they
spelt, you know, consciousness

1205
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:20,300
wrong.
And actually that shows they're

1206
00:48:20,310 --> 00:48:21,740
probably not a greater depth of
spending.

1207
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:23,430
Therefore they can't be greater
depth.

1208
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:24,650
I'm not even joking.
I've had.

1209
00:48:24,660 --> 00:48:26,660
That's happened to me, like
literally last year.

1210
00:48:26,750 --> 00:48:28,840
You get these like evil
moderators as well, like.

1211
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:31,230
And and here's the here's the
mad thing, right?

1212
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:33,670
I know I'm kind of going to a
separate point, but it just fits

1213
00:48:34,370 --> 00:48:36,370
because this happened last year
in moderation.

1214
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,380
At the same time I'm sat there,
I happened to be sat with the

1215
00:48:39,390 --> 00:48:41,090
county moderator.
OK, so so you.

1216
00:48:41,100 --> 00:48:43,490
You've gone to Is this external
moderation or is this like this

1217
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:45,810
is just to help?
People, this is the official

1218
00:48:45,820 --> 00:48:47,390
one.
This is the official external

1219
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,230
moderation.
OK, there's two things that

1220
00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:51,150
happened to schools, by the way.
If you're not in this, in this

1221
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,060
world, this is what.
Happens, so the teachers put

1222
00:48:53,070 --> 00:48:54,830
their thing in.
Right at the end of the year,

1223
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,300
teachers will always assess all
their children's writing, right?

1224
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,160
And there's two things that will
happen to just increase the

1225
00:49:00,170 --> 00:49:02,330
reliability of this and and keep
schools accountable.

1226
00:49:02,380 --> 00:49:05,810
You'll either be invited to a
county moderation where loads of

1227
00:49:05,820 --> 00:49:07,340
teachers go into like a big
hole.

1228
00:49:07,350 --> 00:49:09,780
Normally you all sit around
tables with people you don't

1229
00:49:09,790 --> 00:49:12,290
know and you look at the work
together right, to make sure

1230
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:13,980
that you're not just cheating
the system.

1231
00:49:14,830 --> 00:49:18,560
Or every few years your school
will be ranked like Ofsted.

1232
00:49:18,570 --> 00:49:20,790
It will be randomly selected for
an internal moderation.

1233
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,340
You don't know what's gonna.
Happen, so someone comes.

1234
00:49:22,350 --> 00:49:25,740
Into someone comes into the
school that's been trained a bit

1235
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:28,560
further than everybody else on
on internal moderation.

1236
00:49:28,570 --> 00:49:30,410
One of my friends has done that.
Yeah, exactly.

1237
00:49:30,420 --> 00:49:31,440
Yeah.
And I've had it happen to me as

1238
00:49:31,450 --> 00:49:32,380
well.
A couple of years ago a

1239
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:34,970
different school was internally
moderated and this person came

1240
00:49:34,980 --> 00:49:37,850
in for a whole day and they
randomly select children.

1241
00:49:37,860 --> 00:49:39,860
Sure, on your list.
So when you go to the county

1242
00:49:39,870 --> 00:49:41,930
one, can you take who you want?
Yes, because again.

1243
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:43,070
You can fudge.
Yeah.

1244
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,890
The county one is a bit more
fungible.

1245
00:49:44,900 --> 00:49:45,990
Did you just take your best
ones?

1246
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,240
And then if you say, well, if if
they say that's expected, you

1247
00:49:48,250 --> 00:49:49,490
might, we can get all of these
through.

1248
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:51,570
Yeah, exactly that.
So the idea is if if they don't

1249
00:49:51,580 --> 00:49:54,070
disagree with your judgments or
county, then you're trustworthy.

1250
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,010
And then all of your other
judgments for the other 80

1251
00:49:56,020 --> 00:49:57,590
percent, 90% of your cohort,
right.

1252
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,240
They won't question it.
So as long as you take a book,

1253
00:49:59,250 --> 00:50:01,950
you know, as expected, then all
the other people that you fudged

1254
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:03,310
for and said, Oh yeah, they're
expected.

1255
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:04,800
Exactly.
No one's gonna know about it.

1256
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,880
But if you go with your books
that are actually what it's

1257
00:50:06,890 --> 00:50:09,010
supposed to be, supposed to go
of your books that you're not

1258
00:50:09,020 --> 00:50:11,010
too sure of, Yeah, And then they
help you moderate.

1259
00:50:11,020 --> 00:50:13,260
But the problem is if, if you go
in, you have to give an initial

1260
00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:14,490
assessment.
So if you're saying, I think

1261
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:16,370
they're expected, yeah.
And they knocked down two of

1262
00:50:16,380 --> 00:50:18,260
them to work into.
We're gonna have red flags.

1263
00:50:18,270 --> 00:50:19,320
There's a red flag.
Yeah.

1264
00:50:19,370 --> 00:50:20,950
Yeah.
And then the rest of your books

1265
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,930
might be looked at now.
So they're the two systems,

1266
00:50:22,940 --> 00:50:24,570
obviously the one where they
come into your schools a lot

1267
00:50:24,580 --> 00:50:26,980
more intense because it's
randomly picked and you have to

1268
00:50:27,070 --> 00:50:29,400
previously have already put in
your assessments for these

1269
00:50:29,410 --> 00:50:30,980
children.
So the because they're basically

1270
00:50:30,990 --> 00:50:32,600
testing you, they're saying,
have you assessed these kids

1271
00:50:32,610 --> 00:50:34,280
right?
And in in an eternal one, if

1272
00:50:34,290 --> 00:50:36,590
you've got one of them wrong,
they then do have the power to

1273
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,080
be like, OK, let's look at,
let's look at.

1274
00:50:38,310 --> 00:50:40,270
You've assessed this kid as
expected and I think it's

1275
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,740
working towards, let's now look
at all of the ones you've put as

1276
00:50:42,750 --> 00:50:44,260
expected because we need to
check them all out.

1277
00:50:44,270 --> 00:50:47,530
Yeah, that's the idea, right?
Yeah, you can see why it comes

1278
00:50:47,540 --> 00:50:50,210
in that people use published
pieces and post it notes and

1279
00:50:50,220 --> 00:50:52,980
stuff because there's no trail.
If that was to happen to you,

1280
00:50:53,220 --> 00:50:56,130
you've suddenly got no trial and
no way for them to sniff and

1281
00:50:56,140 --> 00:50:58,230
say, oh, it's.
Not, And every kid has to be

1282
00:50:58,240 --> 00:50:59,390
ready.
You can't just pick your six at

1283
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,120
the start of the year to be
like, I'm gonna fudge these six

1284
00:51:01,130 --> 00:51:03,330
because I'll take them to
moderation because you could get

1285
00:51:03,340 --> 00:51:05,410
internally moderated.
Yeah.

1286
00:51:05,660 --> 00:51:07,290
Absolutely.
So back to the original, I

1287
00:51:07,300 --> 00:51:09,320
think.
I can't remember something about

1288
00:51:09,330 --> 00:51:10,640
no you.
Right.

1289
00:51:10,650 --> 00:51:12,290
Yeah, great depth.
You went to moderation.

1290
00:51:12,330 --> 00:51:14,700
So, alright, so annoying, right?
And I got so frustrated at the

1291
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:18,100
time it happened.
I sat down at the table and I

1292
00:51:18,110 --> 00:51:20,750
just happened to sit with the
table that the person that was

1293
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,810
leading the moderation, like the
county put the leader, came over

1294
00:51:23,820 --> 00:51:26,010
and sat with me and I was like,
oh, typical, here we go.

1295
00:51:26,020 --> 00:51:27,420
Like, you know, she's going to
be harsh.

1296
00:51:27,430 --> 00:51:29,280
I only knew the system was
broken, so I already knew that

1297
00:51:29,290 --> 00:51:30,870
she was going to be harsher than
someone else.

1298
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,460
I looked across at other tables
and and I spoke to some friends

1299
00:51:33,470 --> 00:51:36,000
that were from other schools who
were like, yeah, these two guys

1300
00:51:36,010 --> 00:51:39,060
on my table were both honestly,
just being like, actually, I'll

1301
00:51:39,070 --> 00:51:40,450
put yours for if you put mine
through.

1302
00:51:40,460 --> 00:51:43,220
No.
And you just think, Oh my God,

1303
00:51:43,230 --> 00:51:45,500
so our potluck, I've sat here,
she's knocked down a couple of

1304
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:47,300
my books, which I thought were a
mate.

1305
00:51:47,310 --> 00:51:48,240
I thought these kids are
amazing.

1306
00:51:48,250 --> 00:51:49,460
Yeah.
And she's gone.

1307
00:51:49,470 --> 00:51:50,810
Yeah.
But she's, you know, found one

1308
00:51:50,820 --> 00:51:52,820
or two mistakes and not.
Great gone really by the.

1309
00:51:52,830 --> 00:51:55,740
Book not, not great, but I'm
thinking these kids are, They're

1310
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:58,400
like 5-6, seven years above that
level of age.

1311
00:51:58,410 --> 00:51:59,740
They're ten.
Yeah.

1312
00:51:59,780 --> 00:52:03,060
They're writing these beautiful
pieces with their own style.

1313
00:52:03,390 --> 00:52:04,700
Didn't spell consciousness
right.

1314
00:52:04,780 --> 00:52:06,770
And then the other table, you
just see people.

1315
00:52:06,780 --> 00:52:08,520
Yeah, great depth.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1316
00:52:08,530 --> 00:52:11,220
And I saw, I watched this one
guy and I won't forget it

1317
00:52:11,230 --> 00:52:13,330
because it really annoyed me.
So I watched this one guy.

1318
00:52:13,340 --> 00:52:16,270
I have an argument on my table
with someone else who works at

1319
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,890
our school saying that this,
that this kid that he's got was

1320
00:52:18,900 --> 00:52:20,850
greater depth, right.
I had a quick look at the book.

1321
00:52:20,860 --> 00:52:22,530
Absolutely not.
Barely expected by their

1322
00:52:22,540 --> 00:52:24,260
standard.
Barely, barely expected.

1323
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,620
You know if you're being kind
you just wouldn't wouldn't back

1324
00:52:27,630 --> 00:52:29,330
down and end up putting for his
greater depth.

1325
00:52:29,380 --> 00:52:32,290
You just think oh, this is just
such a stupid system so that

1326
00:52:32,300 --> 00:52:34,230
kids got through who's barely
expected.

1327
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:37,090
My kid who I think is great to
death, maybe isn't because you

1328
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:42,090
know, trust is moderate.
At least extremely high expected

1329
00:52:42,460 --> 00:52:44,760
hasn't got through and is that
OK, so that and that's the data

1330
00:52:44,770 --> 00:52:46,310
that's published in our school
is it?

1331
00:52:46,930 --> 00:52:48,980
Ohh I I.
Hate it.

1332
00:52:48,990 --> 00:52:51,660
It's completely broken the whole
system and and this is the this

1333
00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:54,390
comes the issue because like
from mining mining yours point

1334
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,120
of view honestly I look at this
system for for writing

1335
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:59,960
assessment and I think it's an
absolute joke.

1336
00:53:00,010 --> 00:53:02,460
I can't believe This is why
we've landed.

1337
00:53:02,510 --> 00:53:04,500
But then you look at what
happened beforehand and you look

1338
00:53:04,510 --> 00:53:06,100
at teachers with more
experience, like I said earlier,

1339
00:53:06,110 --> 00:53:07,860
who are just like, no, no, no,
no, no, no.

1340
00:53:07,870 --> 00:53:09,880
Thank God they got rid of the
old one because at least

1341
00:53:09,890 --> 00:53:11,740
teachers take back some control
now.

1342
00:53:11,810 --> 00:53:14,580
And I think there's there's two
massive things wrong with this.

1343
00:53:14,650 --> 00:53:17,000
The two, the two biggest things
that are wrong with this are

1344
00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:20,780
first and foremost what it
constitutes to be an expected

1345
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:23,350
writer.
And the greater depth writer is

1346
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,590
way too hard.
The kids are 10.

1347
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,730
So we've absolutely killed.
Or creativity when it comes to

1348
00:53:29,740 --> 00:53:31,810
writing and you know very
quickly Do you know, do you know

1349
00:53:31,820 --> 00:53:33,390
why?
Do you know how I know we've

1350
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,470
killed or creativity with
writing Because we'll read a

1351
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,990
class book together and instead
of just enjoying the book.

1352
00:53:40,060 --> 00:53:41,490
I'll have children put the hand
go.

1353
00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:43,210
Should there be a comma after
that front step.

1354
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,910
No, it doesn't matter.
This is a published author.

1355
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,750
We're reading Varjak Paw.
This is such a cool story.

1356
00:53:48,820 --> 00:53:51,990
And they're they're sat there
thinking, well, wait a minute,

1357
00:53:52,130 --> 00:53:54,030
this author didn't put a front
to book.

1358
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,140
This author didn't use speech in
the way we've.

1359
00:53:57,150 --> 00:53:59,420
Been We've started with and.
They started with and at the

1360
00:53:59,430 --> 00:54:01,460
start of writing, yeah, because
it's bloody good.

1361
00:54:01,470 --> 00:54:03,380
It's a bloody good book and it's
writing.

1362
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,350
It should be malleable.
It should be fun.

1363
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:06,840
It should be something we can
enjoy.

1364
00:54:06,850 --> 00:54:08,950
There are some rules to be
broken exactly.

1365
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,670
Just going back to this point
here, just read this again, part

1366
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:13,410
of the review before this came
in.

1367
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,870
Teachers big, big, big risk and
teacher assessment.

1368
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,790
Teachers make generous
assessments under increasing

1369
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,010
pressures.
You know, I think that

1370
00:54:19,020 --> 00:54:20,090
summarises everything we just
said.

1371
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:22,410
That's exactly what's happened.
Increasing pressures, increasing

1372
00:54:22,420 --> 00:54:26,090
bar ohh what's happened?
Generous assessments?

1373
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:28,610
Of course it has.
Because if you do the right

1374
00:54:28,620 --> 00:54:34,040
thing in this system, which is
to completely independent

1375
00:54:34,050 --> 00:54:36,140
writing.
So if if you're if you're going

1376
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:38,740
to do this thing where you can't
touch it because you need to

1377
00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:43,400
show that it's their writing.
If you actually do that, none of

1378
00:54:43,410 --> 00:54:44,720
your.
Kids will get can you tell me

1379
00:54:44,730 --> 00:54:47,150
then I know you've sort of we've
kind of gone over it but I wanna

1380
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:51,330
really really clear answer now
concise what is what would you

1381
00:54:51,340 --> 00:54:54,160
constitute as an independent
right.

1382
00:54:54,260 --> 00:54:56,630
And I want and I want people any
teachers listening I want you to

1383
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,710
think of this as what you do or
not at your school.

1384
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,610
So not blaming.
We're not saying like you're bad

1385
00:55:00,620 --> 00:55:02,220
or good.
But just think about, can I

1386
00:55:02,230 --> 00:55:05,650
clarify with you, Is it what I
think independent rights should

1387
00:55:05,660 --> 00:55:08,270
be or is it what I currently
see, independent writers?

1388
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,600
No, it's what you think it's
supposed to be like based on

1389
00:55:11,610 --> 00:55:15,180
your knowledge of the system and
what a rod, true, independent

1390
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:17,060
right is supposed to look like.
So what you see in the

1391
00:55:17,070 --> 00:55:19,640
classroom, what they can and
can't do to help and all that.

1392
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,160
OK, for me personally, it would
be.

1393
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,620
It would start off with the two
or three weeks prior to the

1394
00:55:24,630 --> 00:55:27,120
writing.
So you would have to teach

1395
00:55:27,130 --> 00:55:30,580
children explicitly and give
them a chance to practise with

1396
00:55:30,590 --> 00:55:33,220
your help before the independent
right.

1397
00:55:33,350 --> 00:55:35,470
The reason you have to do that
is because when it comes to

1398
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,360
independent right, you shouldn't
be allowed to do that.

1399
00:55:37,410 --> 00:55:41,140
So for example, let's say we're
doing a story middle right,

1400
00:55:41,150 --> 00:55:42,430
we're just doing not doing a
full story.

1401
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:43,760
We're going to concentrate in
the middle.

1402
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,230
We're going to have a setting
description, a bit of action,

1403
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:47,560
and then it's gonna end with a
dialogue.

1404
00:55:47,570 --> 00:55:49,420
Yeah, so we're bringing together
a lot of stuff we've done

1405
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:51,240
before.
We might do a couple of lessons

1406
00:55:51,250 --> 00:55:54,160
on speech where we literally
just practise how to build a

1407
00:55:54,170 --> 00:55:56,680
sentence using speech, and maybe
they get a go at writing a

1408
00:55:56,690 --> 00:55:58,560
dialogue, completely separate to
anything.

1409
00:55:58,630 --> 00:56:00,860
But I'm there with them,
teaching them how to do it,

1410
00:56:00,930 --> 00:56:03,220
giving them feedback.
Feedback, lots of feedback, lots

1411
00:56:03,230 --> 00:56:05,520
of marking, lots of group work,
lots of verbal feedback.

1412
00:56:05,530 --> 00:56:07,750
I've done that for a couple of
weeks, done all this preaching,

1413
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,550
really heavily involved,
modelled with you.

1414
00:56:09,590 --> 00:56:10,980
So when it comes to the day
where I want to do an

1415
00:56:10,990 --> 00:56:12,930
independent, right, yeah,
they've done lots of practise.

1416
00:56:12,940 --> 00:56:14,740
I think this is really
important, they've done lots of

1417
00:56:14,750 --> 00:56:16,780
practise with me helping.
Them give this poster look.

1418
00:56:16,790 --> 00:56:19,700
Like it should be.
The children sat there for an

1419
00:56:19,710 --> 00:56:21,480
extended period of time.
Hmm.

1420
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,100
They've done their plan.
So again, you've gone.

1421
00:56:24,190 --> 00:56:27,450
You've done a plan with them in
the lessons beforehand, not

1422
00:56:27,460 --> 00:56:29,900
where you've fed them exactly
what to put You've given them

1423
00:56:29,910 --> 00:56:31,600
lots of opportunities to take
from.

1424
00:56:31,650 --> 00:56:33,920
You've given them prompts on the
board, you've given them word

1425
00:56:33,930 --> 00:56:35,350
mats.
You've given them everything

1426
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,930
they could possibly need, all of
the kind of structure they could

1427
00:56:38,940 --> 00:56:41,960
possibly have for them to take
from to plan.

1428
00:56:41,970 --> 00:56:43,540
Not me.
I'm not giving them the plan.

1429
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,430
I'm just facilitating the plan.
Then when it comes to the

1430
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,090
independent write on the day,
all of that structure, the word

1431
00:56:49,100 --> 00:56:52,970
mats aren't out anymore.
The the, the waggle, the example

1432
00:56:52,980 --> 00:56:54,610
writing, that's not on the table
anymore.

1433
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,250
What's on their table is their
plan that they've done.

1434
00:56:57,260 --> 00:57:00,050
From all the stuff they've got,
all the work previously where

1435
00:57:00,060 --> 00:57:05,240
they've practised on the board.
I would put what I want to see

1436
00:57:05,250 --> 00:57:08,130
in their writing.
So I would put on the board like

1437
00:57:08,140 --> 00:57:10,560
sentence starters.
Yeah, sentence starters,

1438
00:57:11,690 --> 00:57:15,270
dialogue.
I might put noun phrases.

1439
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:16,700
Yeah.
I don't give them the noun

1440
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:19,540
phrases, but I just say I want
to see noun phrases so the child

1441
00:57:19,550 --> 00:57:21,440
can look at it and go, OK, I
need to put noun phrases in and

1442
00:57:21,450 --> 00:57:23,920
then independently do it so
prompt on the board of what I

1443
00:57:23,930 --> 00:57:26,140
want to see.
Do you think that's their plan?

1444
00:57:26,610 --> 00:57:30,100
I think that's independent in
that the writing, what they

1445
00:57:30,110 --> 00:57:33,560
produce is completely
independent because I can't.

1446
00:57:33,850 --> 00:57:37,410
This is where I have to draw the
line, because I can't let them

1447
00:57:37,420 --> 00:57:42,060
plan and have nothing and then
right, it won't produce anything

1448
00:57:42,130 --> 00:57:44,570
that's remotely good.
Short term, so that they're.

1449
00:57:44,580 --> 00:57:46,440
Not, no, no, I I completely
agree.

1450
00:57:46,450 --> 00:57:48,510
And if we're going off purely
independent, yeah, I think

1451
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,500
that's fine.
I think a nice middle ground is

1452
00:57:50,570 --> 00:57:53,240
not giving them any hint as to
how to do.

1453
00:57:53,250 --> 00:57:55,160
It, yeah.
But what I want to say, for

1454
00:57:55,170 --> 00:57:57,120
example, I wouldn't not give
them the genre.

1455
00:57:57,380 --> 00:58:01,040
OK, So I would say to them, OK,
we're doing a, like I said, a

1456
00:58:01,050 --> 00:58:03,300
story middle.
I need to see noun phrases.

1457
00:58:03,310 --> 00:58:05,590
I need to see description.
I need to see a setting

1458
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,860
description and a piece of
action before we go into a

1459
00:58:07,870 --> 00:58:09,140
dialogue with two characters of
your.

1460
00:58:09,150 --> 00:58:11,150
Choice isn't even that funny if
you really think about it,

1461
00:58:11,250 --> 00:58:13,180
because really the only reason
you're doing that is because you

1462
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:15,200
know that you need to take these
boxes off for them to get to

1463
00:58:15,210 --> 00:58:17,320
expected.
Well, I I guess that is true,

1464
00:58:17,330 --> 00:58:20,900
but also I'm kind of testing
them in a way to see if they

1465
00:58:20,910 --> 00:58:23,640
know how to apply noun phrases.
But because you've been so my,

1466
00:58:23,650 --> 00:58:24,740
I'm just gonna be devil's
advocate.

1467
00:58:24,750 --> 00:58:26,560
Yeah.
Because I'm probably worse than

1468
00:58:26,570 --> 00:58:28,260
you by the way.
You know, I'll over support and

1469
00:58:28,270 --> 00:58:30,560
I think I really should do that
because the system is so.

1470
00:58:30,570 --> 00:58:35,240
Broken very quickly some people
put the sentence started on the

1471
00:58:35,250 --> 00:58:39,880
board so they put surprisingly
comma and I'm like that is just

1472
00:58:40,590 --> 00:58:43,110
showing them how to do that's to
me that's very.

1473
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:44,300
Different.
Yeah, you know that.

1474
00:58:44,310 --> 00:58:46,900
Sorry, Even what I do, I I
honestly think if we were truly

1475
00:58:46,910 --> 00:58:49,990
doing independent writing, it
should just be everything you

1476
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,760
talked about, even like even
like saying what to have in it,

1477
00:58:52,770 --> 00:58:54,560
like noun phrase and things.
They should have had

1478
00:58:54,570 --> 00:58:56,630
opportunities to learn that in
the three weeks before when it

1479
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,430
comes to independent, right.
I think if we were doing it

1480
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,480
properly, it should be test
conditions, it should be OK,

1481
00:59:01,490 --> 00:59:03,100
guys, today this is what you're
writing.

1482
00:59:03,110 --> 00:59:05,900
You're going to use everything
you've learned you can think of.

1483
00:59:06,450 --> 00:59:09,150
Here's the title.
But don't you think that goes

1484
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,360
back to the old system, which is
just a cold prompt, and then you

1485
00:59:12,370 --> 00:59:13,610
just turn into the external
writer?

1486
00:59:13,620 --> 00:59:15,680
Yeah, that's supposed to be
because I think that's actually

1487
00:59:15,690 --> 00:59:17,830
what it's supposed to be.
That's the opinion I get is

1488
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:19,170
that.
But I thought it said like you

1489
00:59:19,180 --> 00:59:21,010
know, have marking, have
feedback, help.

1490
00:59:21,020 --> 00:59:22,390
Them out?
Yeah, that's fine marking

1491
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,950
feedback after, but I think each
of the pieces of writing across

1492
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,630
the should be should be test
conditions plus the three weeks

1493
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:29,290
before you've.
Actually it's funny because the

1494
00:59:29,300 --> 00:59:31,710
only the things I write on the
board are the things I have in

1495
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,380
my assessment sheets.
For them it's like OK, well to

1496
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:37,050
be here for because in our
school we have every year group

1497
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,490
the English needs have think
their own kind of grid.

1498
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:41,300
Yeah.
So the year 6 grids obvious it's

1499
00:59:41,310 --> 00:59:42,250
just everything.
Yeah.

1500
00:59:42,260 --> 00:59:45,270
But my year four grid, for
example, would say evidence of

1501
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,740
dialogue between 2 characters.
Simple as that.

1502
00:59:49,780 --> 00:59:52,080
It doesn't have to be anything
more complicated than just two

1503
00:59:52,090 --> 00:59:54,630
characters talking.
Yeah, so I'll say to them, OK,

1504
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,130
in this piece of writing, I'd
like to see dialogue between 2

1505
00:59:57,140 --> 00:59:58,130
characters.
Tick.

1506
00:59:58,140 --> 00:59:59,400
Off.
But really, could someone, could

1507
00:59:59,410 --> 01:00:00,750
someone write a good story about
dialogue?

1508
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,310
Yeah, yeah, that does exist in
reality.

1509
01:00:03,460 --> 01:00:05,130
But if you've taught them, you'd
hope they've.

1510
01:00:05,140 --> 01:00:07,360
Applied hope they Yeah.
And I think the point I think

1511
01:00:07,370 --> 01:00:09,990
what it's supposed to be is,
yeah, you just, it's just a

1512
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:11,360
chance.
Then you've taught them the

1513
01:00:11,370 --> 01:00:12,760
dialogue.
So it's up to them now whether

1514
01:00:12,770 --> 01:00:14,990
they want to put it on and if
they don't, it's crazy.

1515
01:00:15,060 --> 01:00:19,010
If they don't put it in, we've
got a system we we don't agree

1516
01:00:19,020 --> 01:00:20,030
with that says they're not.
Expecting.

1517
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:21,070
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.

1518
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,130
Whereas in reality, they could
have been a really nice story

1519
01:00:23,140 --> 01:00:24,560
with dialogue, Yeah, yeah.
And.

1520
01:00:24,570 --> 01:00:27,050
And they could show that they
actually are an expected level

1521
01:00:27,060 --> 01:00:28,490
writer.
They just haven't happened to

1522
01:00:28,500 --> 01:00:30,220
use dialogue.
So I think the system

1523
01:00:30,270 --> 01:00:33,920
infiltrates our minds from even
the deepest levels of trying to

1524
01:00:33,930 --> 01:00:34,490
do things.
Wrong.

1525
01:00:34,500 --> 01:00:37,060
When you do a genre for example,
let's say I'm doing non

1526
01:00:37,070 --> 01:00:39,740
chronological report or or let's
say newspaper report rather.

1527
01:00:40,070 --> 01:00:42,440
I know there's like a tick box
somewhere where it's like a

1528
01:00:42,450 --> 01:00:45,700
caption needs to show a caption
to a picture, and I'm like the

1529
01:00:45,710 --> 01:00:47,920
only chance I'll ever get to do
that as a newspaper report.

1530
01:00:47,930 --> 01:00:49,560
Or maybe not.
Yeah, so you make.

1531
01:00:49,570 --> 01:00:51,340
So.
So when they when it comes to

1532
01:00:51,350 --> 01:00:55,420
that, I if I don't tell them to
do it, umm, and they don't do

1533
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:57,180
it.
Yeah that means that that kid

1534
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:59,500
for that year now is not
expected because they've missed

1535
01:00:59,510 --> 01:01:00,360
their one thing.
Yeah.

1536
01:01:00,370 --> 01:01:03,630
So I think that it's true it's
it's double edged sword here

1537
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,920
which is the the issue is it's
really hard to reach any kind of

1538
01:01:06,930 --> 01:01:09,000
level because it's just
ridiculously high expectations

1539
01:01:09,010 --> 01:01:11,220
for children to reach that needs
to be sorted in my opinion.

1540
01:01:11,290 --> 01:01:13,590
But because it's ridiculously
high you need to get absolutely

1541
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,450
everything in your writing and
only some genres lend themselves

1542
01:01:16,460 --> 01:01:17,900
to some of the things you need
to get.

1543
01:01:17,950 --> 01:01:20,030
When it comes to writing it,
you're going to say to your

1544
01:01:20,100 --> 01:01:24,100
kids, listen, at the very least
I need to see a dialogue.

1545
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:27,100
Yeah.
Then what happens is the other

1546
01:01:27,110 --> 01:01:29,770
problem is how far scores want
to push this and how how far

1547
01:01:29,780 --> 01:01:31,980
we're going to judge it.
Because the the scale of

1548
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:34,980
independence, to go back to your
question, it is a sliding scale.

1549
01:01:34,990 --> 01:01:36,260
Yeah.
So how independent is writing?

1550
01:01:36,270 --> 01:01:38,310
Cool.
We go from literally saying to

1551
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,840
them, right?
Yeah, Nothing else we could say,

1552
01:01:41,890 --> 01:01:43,080
right.
A newspaper report.

1553
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:44,980
We could say write a newspaper
report.

1554
01:01:44,990 --> 01:01:47,560
Make sure you put your your
subtitles in your your

1555
01:01:47,730 --> 01:01:49,460
captioning and it's in
paragraphs.

1556
01:01:49,470 --> 01:01:51,790
Please write a newspaper report
about this thing.

1557
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,410
You've not even got the choice
anymore.

1558
01:01:53,650 --> 01:01:55,890
It's about this thing because I
think choice is a big thing and

1559
01:01:55,900 --> 01:01:57,930
independent writing.
We always give the children the

1560
01:01:57,940 --> 01:01:59,730
choice.
For example, in the dialogue

1561
01:01:59,740 --> 01:02:01,660
that we're writing.
With my year fours currently,

1562
01:02:01,730 --> 01:02:03,900
it's between anyone and the
setting.

1563
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:05,340
They can run past whatever they
want.

1564
01:02:05,390 --> 01:02:07,220
So there's the choice, but the
structures.

1565
01:02:07,230 --> 01:02:08,740
Always.
You know, one one more way that

1566
01:02:08,750 --> 01:02:11,170
is often fudged, costing us a
lot in your yeah, I've seen it.

1567
01:02:11,180 --> 01:02:13,540
A lot is.
The plan also gets taken into

1568
01:02:13,550 --> 01:02:15,020
account.
So you talk about doing a plan,

1569
01:02:15,030 --> 01:02:17,760
maybe a quite a scaffolded plan.
Yeah, that wouldn't go down in

1570
01:02:17,770 --> 01:02:20,720
in year 6IN in moderation.
If the plan looks like it had a

1571
01:02:20,730 --> 01:02:23,460
bit too much scaffolding in it,
in writing the piece of writing,

1572
01:02:23,470 --> 01:02:24,880
it struck off.
It can't be.

1573
01:02:24,890 --> 01:02:26,780
Used.
Not even joking, so as you can.

1574
01:02:26,790 --> 01:02:28,440
Imagine, I guess because I have
the plan with them, they're.

1575
01:02:28,450 --> 01:02:30,010
Right.
Easy ways to fudge it.

1576
01:02:30,130 --> 01:02:34,110
Plan doesn't go to book.
Much evidence of a plan.

1577
01:02:34,300 --> 01:02:35,580
Yeah, they have to.
You're supposed to.

1578
01:02:35,590 --> 01:02:37,350
So, So what you do, You have
another plan.

1579
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:38,950
Ohh, people do it.
Do it.

1580
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:40,330
People do it.
So much joking.

1581
01:02:40,340 --> 01:02:42,140
People have like a really quick
plan they do in their books to

1582
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:43,940
make it look good and then have
the real plan that they have on

1583
01:02:43,950 --> 01:02:45,530
a bit of paper that gets put in
the bin afterwards.

1584
01:02:45,580 --> 01:02:47,260
It happens.
One big poster.

1585
01:02:47,740 --> 01:02:49,450
Yeah, literally.
I just hate it.

1586
01:02:49,460 --> 01:02:51,170
So I think, yeah, just to
summarise, we can talk about

1587
01:02:51,180 --> 01:02:53,450
this forever, but to summarise
your, you know, big question

1588
01:02:53,460 --> 01:02:55,000
about the independence, how
independent is it?

1589
01:02:55,060 --> 01:02:57,050
I don't know.
Because it's not monitored, it's

1590
01:02:57,060 --> 01:02:59,750
not standardised, the
independence of writing isn't

1591
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,950
remotely standardised and it's
totally, totally fungible.

1592
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,000
So that was first with the exam.
Yeah, that's a big thing that

1593
01:03:06,010 --> 01:03:07,660
was lost to the exam.
So what's the answer?

1594
01:03:07,730 --> 01:03:09,400
That's this is the thing I've
been thinking about the whole

1595
01:03:09,410 --> 01:03:10,830
time all the in the lead up to
this episode.

1596
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,830
Because normally I'm like, I
just don't know because I don't

1597
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,240
think the, I think the exam was
horribly flawed as we've talked

1598
01:03:16,250 --> 01:03:19,740
about for all the reasons we've
said at the start, I think this

1599
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:23,900
system has been taken advantage
of even more sure I think to the

1600
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:25,620
absolute Max.
And it's meant that the bar is

1601
01:03:25,630 --> 01:03:28,560
raised now to an unattainable
standard for an actual average

1602
01:03:28,570 --> 01:03:30,520
child.
So what's the answer?

1603
01:03:30,850 --> 01:03:32,740
And it's funny enough, when I
was reading this review, I was

1604
01:03:32,750 --> 01:03:34,890
like, ohh, the answer was what
the review said in 2011.

1605
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,490
Well, honestly, but is it like
because that was what happened

1606
01:03:38,500 --> 01:03:39,170
and where we?
Are.

1607
01:03:39,180 --> 01:03:40,490
Yeah.
We just didn't do it properly.

1608
01:03:40,540 --> 01:03:41,890
Yeah.
It got it got taken advantage

1609
01:03:41,900 --> 01:03:43,340
of.
I don't know I I think there's.

1610
01:03:43,350 --> 01:03:44,430
I think there is a middle
ground.

1611
01:03:44,780 --> 01:03:46,310
Yeah.
I think there is a middle ground

1612
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,940
where we still look at lots of
pieces of writing from across

1613
01:03:49,950 --> 01:03:51,750
the year.
Sure, we scrap this stupid

1614
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,910
mentality of.
Teachers can't possibly give any

1615
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:56,250
input.
Yeah, teachers can't possibly.

1616
01:03:56,260 --> 01:03:59,200
It's just an exercise book.
I would say I think that's

1617
01:03:59,210 --> 01:04:01,030
really going on jump in there
because I think what you're

1618
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,830
saying is absolutely right.
Why not moderate the pros?

1619
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:07,230
Like it said, the process of you
marking as well, rather than

1620
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:09,990
just your children?
And I think every school, I

1621
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,000
think we make it more
commonplace that we have an

1622
01:04:12,010 --> 01:04:13,470
external moderator.
We get rid of this.

1623
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,190
We get rid of this stupid county
moderation stuff and it's just

1624
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,400
every year someone comes into
your and they look at some books

1625
01:04:19,410 --> 01:04:21,780
with you and that's just how it
works every single year.

1626
01:04:21,790 --> 01:04:23,810
Hmm.
Could it still be fudged?

1627
01:04:23,820 --> 01:04:25,140
Yeah, I'm sure it can.
Yeah.

1628
01:04:25,150 --> 01:04:27,720
But we get rid of published
work.

1629
01:04:27,730 --> 01:04:29,760
That's just that rule that you
can't have it because we know

1630
01:04:29,770 --> 01:04:30,860
it's.
We know it's fake.

1631
01:04:30,930 --> 01:04:33,560
When you as a moderator and you
see that, you must know it's

1632
01:04:33,570 --> 01:04:35,980
completely cheating.
Yeah, it's it's stupid.

1633
01:04:36,030 --> 01:04:39,200
And we just make some rules of
OK, if the work has no teacher.

1634
01:04:39,570 --> 01:04:41,750
Yeah.
That that's been fudged

1635
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,120
published book, we assume it's
been fudged and we just make all

1636
01:04:44,130 --> 01:04:47,200
these things just outcast.
And it's like, no, the only

1637
01:04:47,210 --> 01:04:49,060
thing that's acceptable now is
an exercise book.

1638
01:04:49,210 --> 01:04:50,890
Yeah.
And again, I don't think

1639
01:04:50,900 --> 01:04:52,240
anything wrong with just
flicking back a couple.

1640
01:04:52,250 --> 01:04:55,140
Of pages.
Yeah, they did learn writing

1641
01:04:55,150 --> 01:04:56,780
here.
Yeah, OK And they've applied.

1642
01:04:56,790 --> 01:04:58,620
OK, cool.
Or they got it there and they

1643
01:04:58,630 --> 01:05:00,760
got a bit wrong, but then the
teacher said remember this and

1644
01:05:00,770 --> 01:05:01,770
they fixed it.
Ohh, that's good.

1645
01:05:01,780 --> 01:05:05,560
That's good process.
Because guess what, official,

1646
01:05:05,570 --> 01:05:09,320
proper authors do not put in
their first draught ever.

1647
01:05:09,330 --> 01:05:11,720
I say to the kids all the time,
I know authors.

1648
01:05:11,730 --> 01:05:14,200
We know authors who've done
books to help with, you know,

1649
01:05:14,210 --> 01:05:16,780
tests and things and vocabulary
books.

1650
01:05:16,850 --> 01:05:19,560
They have an editor, like thank
God for my editor because I

1651
01:05:19,570 --> 01:05:20,980
constantly make these
grammatical errors.

1652
01:05:20,990 --> 01:05:25,070
And it's just, it's just of of
course these are 10 and all

1653
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,520
we've done, all we've done by
the way, to get my high horse

1654
01:05:27,530 --> 01:05:29,040
now.
But all we've done with writing

1655
01:05:29,050 --> 01:05:31,220
is completely killer, completely
killer.

1656
01:05:31,230 --> 01:05:33,140
Because writing now is a tick
box exercise.

1657
01:05:33,210 --> 01:05:35,990
Even the most independent of
writers, the most teachers who

1658
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,630
want to give the least possible
will say to their children, I

1659
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:40,250
need to see this, this, this,
this and this.

1660
01:05:40,310 --> 01:05:42,200
The children are sat there
instead of thinking what's next,

1661
01:05:42,210 --> 01:05:43,670
what's the next thing?
I make this story really

1662
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,600
interesting.
Well, no, no, no, no, no, not

1663
01:05:45,610 --> 01:05:47,010
what I like.
Doesn't matter because ohh.

1664
01:05:47,020 --> 01:05:48,840
Gosh, Mr. Price is saying it
needs to be now praise.

1665
01:05:48,850 --> 01:05:50,410
He wants to tick the box on
what's the tick off.

1666
01:05:50,420 --> 01:05:51,440
I get it.
But now I'm raising.

1667
01:05:51,540 --> 01:05:53,550
It's completely irrelevant.
I feel sorry for my sixes

1668
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,570
because we give them it takes so
long to mark anything.

1669
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,080
But you know we give them which
I show them the assessment grid

1670
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,990
because they're just that.
Yeah, of course I show my time

1671
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,910
and I said at the.
End of the day, this is what I'm

1672
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,440
assessing against.
Tell them straight away to be

1673
01:06:06,450 --> 01:06:08,160
expected.
You need to have basically takes

1674
01:06:08,170 --> 01:06:11,120
off all these boxes a couple of
times to show that you can do it

1675
01:06:11,180 --> 01:06:13,270
and they will just look at their
target cards now and I actually

1676
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:14,880
hate it.
I'm sat there thinking I just

1677
01:06:14,890 --> 01:06:16,670
want them to enjoy the writing.
What I'm really doing is

1678
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,230
thinking I'm not even modal
verbs in all no, I better put

1679
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,380
some into this, right?
And then you read it and it's so

1680
01:06:21,390 --> 01:06:23,120
clunky.
But guess what?

1681
01:06:23,130 --> 01:06:24,600
You don't even.
Read it properly when you mark

1682
01:06:24,610 --> 01:06:26,700
it because all you're doing is
amount of uptick.

1683
01:06:28,170 --> 01:06:30,620
Let's take Yep, let's go.
It doesn't matter that there's

1684
01:06:30,630 --> 01:06:33,210
no way that I could have.
Does not remotely fit into that

1685
01:06:33,740 --> 01:06:35,130
flow of the right It doesn't
matter.

1686
01:06:35,140 --> 01:06:37,530
Beautiful description.
And it goes we.

1687
01:06:37,540 --> 01:06:40,150
Should go Ohh, OK, it's expected
now.

1688
01:06:40,930 --> 01:06:42,700
Yeah, it's just one of the first
times.

1689
01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:44,350
Our episodes I I don't.
Really have the.

1690
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:46,400
Answers, even what I just said
They're hugely flawed.

1691
01:06:46,410 --> 01:06:47,490
Yeah, of course it's sort of.
I don't.

1692
01:06:47,500 --> 01:06:49,140
I was gonna come back to and I
was like, there's no point

1693
01:06:49,150 --> 01:06:51,100
because we know it's flawed.
Yeah, you know what it should

1694
01:06:51,110 --> 01:06:51,680
be.
I think the.

1695
01:06:51,690 --> 01:06:54,440
Number one thing we can do right
now, and it should be absolutely

1696
01:06:54,450 --> 01:06:57,000
introduced straight away, is
quite simply lower the bloody

1697
01:06:57,010 --> 01:06:58,540
levels.
Yeah, lower the levels.

1698
01:06:58,550 --> 01:07:00,220
That's that's the number one
stop.

1699
01:07:00,230 --> 01:07:01,870
Stop expecting the government,
love it.

1700
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:03,100
The government know there's all
the.

1701
01:07:03,110 --> 01:07:05,380
Fudging is happening, but it
looks good.

1702
01:07:05,470 --> 01:07:08,790
But wow, look how good our.
Country is, but look at.

1703
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:09,940
So it's all fake?
Wow.

1704
01:07:09,950 --> 01:07:11,760
Look how good our country is.
Lower the bar.

1705
01:07:11,770 --> 01:07:13,500
They're still gonna be.
We've decided what?

1706
01:07:13,510 --> 01:07:16,280
Expected is yeah the government
go ohh. 80% are expected.

1707
01:07:16,290 --> 01:07:18,180
OK lower the bar.
Guess what 80% will still be

1708
01:07:18,190 --> 01:07:19,060
expected.
Yeah.

1709
01:07:19,070 --> 01:07:20,760
So you can still go around and
say Ohh.

1710
01:07:20,770 --> 01:07:23,360
Actually I bet yeah no one
cares.

1711
01:07:23,410 --> 01:07:26,260
Let children absolutely don't
like writing anymore.

1712
01:07:26,270 --> 01:07:28,520
Who would have loved it before
because they can't be creative.

1713
01:07:28,570 --> 01:07:31,080
Why didn't they go and draw a
comic book Because that's a

1714
01:07:31,090 --> 01:07:33,320
lovely bit of writing.
It's a made no chance of that

1715
01:07:33,330 --> 01:07:34,980
ever boring.
Just for a bit of fun.

1716
01:07:34,990 --> 01:07:36,770
A couple of years ago, I got my
because we.

1717
01:07:36,780 --> 01:07:37,900
Went to same school, We both
went to it.

1718
01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:39,860
We were in Kent.
Grammar Schools are heavy around

1719
01:07:39,870 --> 01:07:41,230
here.
We both went to grammar school

1720
01:07:41,410 --> 01:07:43,290
and I thought, OK, I went to a
grammar school.

1721
01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:45,090
I wonder what my writing was
like.

1722
01:07:45,140 --> 01:07:47,130
And I and I loved creative
writing.

1723
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,750
And I got my year seven books
out and they were atrocious,

1724
01:07:51,860 --> 01:07:54,030
Atrocious.
But where were they?

1725
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:55,870
Were they similar to your?
Children would be today if you

1726
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,230
didn't do all the fudging.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1727
01:07:59,240 --> 01:07:59,900
definitely.
So you were.

1728
01:07:59,910 --> 01:08:00,920
You were.
Yeah, absolutely.

1729
01:08:00,930 --> 01:08:02,310
I tell you what, it was good.
I looked at it.

1730
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:03,480
I was like, oh, this is really
well.

1731
01:08:03,490 --> 01:08:05,240
Written in terms of, like,
creativity, sure.

1732
01:08:05,250 --> 01:08:07,560
But I did I my spellings were
dreadful.

1733
01:08:07,710 --> 01:08:10,380
I didn't use any correct
punctuation anywhere, But if you

1734
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:12,380
just read it out loud, yeah, it
was really good.

1735
01:08:12,390 --> 01:08:14,590
Because people would say to
that, well, it's better now

1736
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:16,319
then.
And it's like, no, no, no.

1737
01:08:16,670 --> 01:08:19,899
All that's happened in the
meantime is 10s and hundreds of

1738
01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:24,229
hours of teacher work to fudge
what you were as a writer to

1739
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,700
looking pristine and perfect.
Yeah, yeah, the actual ability

1740
01:08:27,710 --> 01:08:30,580
of you to the actual ability of
the children now.

1741
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:32,560
Not much different at all.
No, of course it's not.

1742
01:08:32,620 --> 01:08:33,800
And you've got to enjoy your
writing.

1743
01:08:33,810 --> 01:08:34,979
One guess.
What you still?

1744
01:08:34,990 --> 01:08:38,319
Can't spell, yeah, yeah.
But I guess my overall my

1745
01:08:38,380 --> 01:08:40,479
overall point was I still.
Went to grammar school, Yeah.

1746
01:08:40,490 --> 01:08:42,580
Whereas now that would have been
assessed as working towards.

1747
01:08:42,590 --> 01:08:44,020
No way would have been to
grammar school.

1748
01:08:44,029 --> 01:08:46,010
Working toward that would have
been like going to grammar

1749
01:08:46,020 --> 01:08:48,210
school, working towards writing,
Yeah, but no.

1750
01:08:48,220 --> 01:08:50,109
But yeah, but again, I'm going
to come back to.

1751
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:53,060
The point it's the same level
like the the children.

1752
01:08:53,069 --> 01:08:55,609
This is the same that you would
have been expected because your

1753
01:08:55,620 --> 01:08:57,250
teacher would have it.
Back then it was a system.

1754
01:08:57,630 --> 01:09:00,850
So it's the exact same that
we're we're we're making up

1755
01:09:00,859 --> 01:09:03,529
these boundaries and putting a
really high marker and putting

1756
01:09:03,540 --> 01:09:06,149
children down as they can't
write when they bloody can.

1757
01:09:06,340 --> 01:09:07,410
Cause they're ten.
Yeah.

1758
01:09:07,420 --> 01:09:08,819
For a 10 year old they can
write.

1759
01:09:08,830 --> 01:09:10,450
Yeah, exactly.
And you know what?

1760
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,149
What is writing?
It's just this construct of for

1761
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,069
all these rules.
Oh, but also be careful when you

1762
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,189
put that in the middle of a
sentence because sometimes you

1763
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:20,290
don't need a comma, but if you
put which you do need a comma,

1764
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:22,450
get in the bin.
I don't care.

1765
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:26,670
I don't care When they read
their book from like whoever's

1766
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:28,950
reading, like they got their
class text and there's no

1767
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,979
following this at all.
This is a published off by the

1768
01:09:30,990 --> 01:09:33,760
way, the best seller and you're
loving this book.

1769
01:09:33,950 --> 01:09:37,479
Who cares where the comma goes?
Yeah, no one, right?

1770
01:09:37,490 --> 01:09:39,319
Dylan, can I end this
conversation with a summary?

1771
01:09:39,390 --> 01:09:41,740
Yeah, of just making.
Please do because I need to.

1772
01:09:41,750 --> 01:09:43,729
Go.
I've got, I've got brunch.

1773
01:09:43,740 --> 01:09:49,069
You'll be pleased to know Plan
is a summary then of of why the

1774
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:50,890
system is broken.
There's some bullet points we've

1775
01:09:50,899 --> 01:09:53,109
talked about right up, number
one.

1776
01:09:53,180 --> 01:09:57,340
Yeah, we just spent an hour.
So this this minute will help.

1777
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,270
Too much teacher input.
I think we explored that even.

1778
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,480
From your energy, it's just it's
too much teaching, but we think

1779
01:10:02,490 --> 01:10:05,520
we do too much.
The published workbooks, they're

1780
01:10:05,530 --> 01:10:07,650
broken.
They're just Felicia.

1781
01:10:09,570 --> 01:10:11,610
Stupid rules.
Around having work which has

1782
01:10:11,620 --> 01:10:15,070
been marked by teachers.
Wait, we?

1783
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:17,040
Have to mark everything to the
end of the grid, but this one

1784
01:10:17,050 --> 01:10:17,990
thing, no, don't touch it.
Yeah.

1785
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,660
Yeah.
Not as market can't show any is

1786
01:10:19,670 --> 01:10:20,730
marking.
Useful or not then?

1787
01:10:21,350 --> 01:10:22,350
Because if it's not.
Useful.

1788
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,610
I don't do it for anything.
Yeah, yeah, it's still stupidly.

1789
01:10:25,620 --> 01:10:28,340
Subjective, yeah.
As I said, from my experience

1790
01:10:28,350 --> 01:10:29,590
with moderation, that will never
go.

1791
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:31,380
To me.
It's a bit like art, you know?

1792
01:10:31,420 --> 01:10:33,720
You can.
You can look at your strokes and

1793
01:10:33,730 --> 01:10:37,590
your pencils thing isn't it
really is is completely teacher

1794
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:38,790
confidence.
The great others work.

1795
01:10:38,860 --> 01:10:41,130
If you're sat there and they're
not confident, Not confident,

1796
01:10:41,140 --> 01:10:42,380
it's expected.
Yeah, I think so.

1797
01:10:42,390 --> 01:10:43,880
Or someone can bully away like
you said.

1798
01:10:43,890 --> 01:10:45,480
That's great depth.
Not backing down and you're

1799
01:10:45,490 --> 01:10:46,750
like, OK, well they really
confident.

1800
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,540
It's not my job to care, OK.
I don't want an argument about

1801
01:10:49,550 --> 01:10:51,880
moderation.
And the the final one was to

1802
01:10:51,890 --> 01:10:54,070
your point, Yeah, How, how
independent really is it?

1803
01:10:54,220 --> 01:10:55,880
Is it really independent?
I don't know.

1804
01:10:55,890 --> 01:10:58,570
We can argue about the scale of
what independence is, but it's

1805
01:10:58,580 --> 01:11:00,920
not.
It's not moderated independence.

1806
01:11:01,020 --> 01:11:03,020
So why, why wouldn't you push
that vote?

1807
01:11:03,030 --> 01:11:05,200
Yeah.
Of course, because until the.

1808
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:06,510
Levels change.
That's my #1.

1809
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:09,460
Thing to come out of this, what
could we do immediately to start

1810
01:11:09,470 --> 01:11:12,290
fixing the problem would be your
Change this to.

1811
01:11:12,300 --> 01:11:17,230
How much percentage of children
in the country that are truly

1812
01:11:17,300 --> 01:11:20,030
producing independent writing
across the year as there are

1813
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:23,000
examples of that go to
moderation, truly independent,

1814
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,750
what would you say?
5%, Yeah, I was, I was gonna say

1815
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:29,000
something under 10 as well, I
reckon.

1816
01:11:29,010 --> 01:11:31,400
I reckon 5% because.
Because if you're saying what I

1817
01:11:31,410 --> 01:11:33,560
do is not independent, it's
probably zero.

1818
01:11:33,630 --> 01:11:34,640
Yeah.
Genuinely.

1819
01:11:34,650 --> 01:11:36,400
Yeah.
If if you're perfect, give it.

1820
01:11:36,410 --> 01:11:38,680
No, no, no, no.
I'm just saying, if you give the

1821
01:11:38,690 --> 01:11:42,310
genre and what you're looking
for, if you're saying that's not

1822
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:44,080
independent, think it is, then
not no one.

1823
01:11:44,130 --> 01:11:45,230
Yeah, scaffolding too.
Much No.

1824
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,000
One No.
But if you're giving the genre

1825
01:11:47,010 --> 01:11:50,020
and saying at some point put
noun phrases and modal verbs and

1826
01:11:50,030 --> 01:11:53,250
this and now, I'd argue that's
independent, yeah.

1827
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:55,310
And I I think so as well.
But in our system, I don't think

1828
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:56,630
it is, yeah.
Yeah, the system.

1829
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,710
Because you told me to put it.
Yeah, yeah, Matt.

1830
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:01,670
Completely broken.
Completely, completely good

1831
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:03,090
vent.
Yeah, I kind of know what.

1832
01:12:03,100 --> 01:12:04,270
You guys think?
Because I don't know.

1833
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:05,830
The answer is I don't know what
the answer is.

1834
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:07,540
No.
You you might have a really good

1835
01:12:07,550 --> 01:12:11,440
idea of how we should change the
system to actually assess

1836
01:12:11,450 --> 01:12:13,160
writing a bit more effectively.
And what do you do in your

1837
01:12:13,170 --> 01:12:14,680
school?
You know, you know you might.

1838
01:12:14,690 --> 01:12:15,840
Message.
I'm not going to put it anywhere

1839
01:12:15,850 --> 01:12:18,150
guys, especially on this, but if
you've seen stuff which you just

1840
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,780
think is crazy or you know what
works for you.

1841
01:12:20,790 --> 01:12:23,840
What doesn't work have been
asked to do something ridiculous

1842
01:12:23,850 --> 01:12:26,680
when it comes to writing before,
which not only completely cheats

1843
01:12:26,690 --> 01:12:30,180
the system but adds unbelievable
stress to your workload and you

1844
01:12:30,190 --> 01:12:31,960
just think.
E-mail us at Whistle Blow at

1845
01:12:31,970 --> 01:12:34,540
Teacher.
Finally, Instagram.

1846
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:37,270
That's the best place at Teach
St podcast and guys, it's been

1847
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:38,750
over a year.
Hope you're enjoying it.

1848
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:40,780
If you've been listening all
year and you've got this final

1849
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:44,230
episode, please send us a
message so we love it who you

1850
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:45,750
are because we know a lot of
you.

1851
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:48,970
There's a load more out there.
We see the numbers but we don't

1852
01:12:48,980 --> 01:12:50,230
hear from you.
So do messages.

1853
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:54,580
Guys, let us know.
Please, please, please please

1854
01:12:55,740 --> 01:12:57,130
share our podcast.
So we can get.

1855
01:12:57,140 --> 01:12:58,610
Money, please, no.
No.

1856
01:12:58,660 --> 01:13:01,510
So we can get money, yeah.
Oh my