Ep 36: Why Are SO Many Teachers Quitting? (Top 5 Reasons)

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach,

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Sleep, Repeat.
My name is Dylan, I forgot to

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say.
It's so concentrated that you

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were killing me and I was so
concentrated on saying it more

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slowly.
Yeah, it came off.

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Yeah, And I'm now concentrated
on not doing this all the time.

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Well, turning.
Yeah, you doing it again.

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You're saying stuff at that most
people don't watch, so they

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don't know what you're talking.
About how long will it take for

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you to realise that I don't
acknowledge people that don't

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watch our podcast?
I'm sorry, a podcast is not for

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listening to.
Is it a famously known for

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watching?
Yeah, definitely.

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Anyway, my name is Dylan.
And my name is Hayden and we're

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back with the episode.
Thank you all for tuning in.

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How's your week been?
Having good.

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I'm just.
Imagining I always imagine

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someone watching it for the
first time and just hearing that

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my name.
And a second ago, and really

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been a bit confused.
Now, if this is your first

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episode because someone's very
kindly told you to listen, thank

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you for that person.
And I'm sorry for what you're

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about to hear because we've been
quite unhinged for the last few

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weeks.
Yeah, I don't know.

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There's a reason for that.
Unhinged Ness.

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I moved house.
You moved moved house recently.

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How was your weekend?
Yeah, good.

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Yeah, baby as well.
So he did have a baby, which he

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doesn't normally mention.
Did not take long to mention.

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That let me just get my notes
up.

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You wait.
You wait until I tell you my.

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Week.
What happened?

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I'm looking forward to it.
I didn't.

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We normally talk a lot and we
just haven't spoken that much

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because obviously you're busy.
So I'm looking forward to

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hearing your stories.
What have you been up to this

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week?
Because both, well, you've been

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at work the whole time.
Both actually been in work this

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week.
Yeah, it was weird seeing it

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weird being really weird.
Yeah, I couldn't get actually

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get my head around the fact that
you were there already.

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It's just gone by so quickly.
Your whole crazy paternity

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leave, a 3 1/2 week old at home
and I have to go and do like 10

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hour days.
It's just bizarre to me.

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It's crazy.
Do you?

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Know what worried me a little
bit was it was so bizarre seeing

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you after 3 1/2 weeks.
Now you luckily had the half

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term week, yes, didn't you as
well and a bit of extra.

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Just a couple of days because of
our part time.

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And then I was like, Oh my days.
That feels crazy to me.

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And I'm gonna get 2 weeks.
Yeah, because you're gonna be.

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Midterm, so we've got roughly 2
weeks left until we have our

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baby, which is so super cool but
I am already worried like 2

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weeks.
I've got to go back to like 4

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days.
I made the point really quickly

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about I was talking to someone
because obviously we're in a

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female dominated profession, so
we have a lot of maternity cover

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going on.
And just to our school in

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general, which just so happened
that the last few years it feels

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like there's always been at
least two people on maternity.

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Yeah.
And when they return to work,

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it's really tough.
And I've always been like, God,

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yeah, it must be really tough
returning to work.

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But they are returning to work
with a one year old where you

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can have established routines.
You can have like, you know,

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built up this idea of they know
when bedtime is, they know

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mummy's gone and they understand
that.

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And they're gonna maybe yeah
we're gonna have someone.

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But it's much easier to do that
by the time they're one years.

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Yeah, you've had that whole year
to build up that relationship

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with them.
Whereas from the male teacher's

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point of view, I'm just as
involved with the child.

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Feels very modern thing now.
Like you talk to older people

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like ohh, he never did that.
It's like I'm doing everything

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that I can and we're sharing it
out.

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But then suddenly I've just got
to go back to work with a

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three-week old look, no routine
at all.

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Suddenly I've got to try and
impose a routine of 10 hour

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days.
My child doesn't respect that.

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No, I I you know, I I was up the
other night until half one, and

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then I woke up and was awake
from 4:45.

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Because he's up.
He needs someone there to, like,

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change nappy.
We're trying to do it together.

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Sometimes it's a two man job.
I want to support and help.

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I can't just switch that off.
Hmm.

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And I find I find it.
Really.

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Tough, to be honest.
You've been.

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I mean, you've been very good.
Hmm.

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You haven't looked as tired as I
thought you might look.

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You just, I think after two
weeks went over the hump of

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feeling tired.
And now my body's just like, no,

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you don't feel anything now.
Ohh, you're numb, but I want to

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hear about your weight.
Well I've I've I've actually

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suffered a little bit, suffered
a little bit because I don't

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know if you had this and it
would be interesting to hear

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being someone who's like 4 weeks
ahead of me now is I have been

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really really really anxious
about the baby and particularly

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this morning was the worst.
I just haven't experienced it

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like that before.
I'm just mega, mega anxious

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about just the health of the
baby because it's completely out

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of my control and I hate it and
there's nothing I can do.

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And basically the baby didn't
move for like a couple of hours

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this morning and it just it just
sent me.

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Into a massive spiral.
Panic.

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Genuinely, like I was completely
having a anxiety attack and just

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trying to play it cool.
But it did, and I hated it.

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And I'm like, did you have
anything like that?

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Ohh.
Yeah.

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Like it.
It's it's tough.

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It's tough as well in the
pregnant period as the dad.

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Look, I'm.
I'm not.

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I don't want anyone to think at
any point.

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I'm saying it's tougher.
For the dad or not at all.

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But it's our perspective as the
men that it's really tricky

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because not only is it kind of
like, it's just an abstract

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notion, isn't it?
While it's in the it's in the

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womb.
It's this abstract thought, you

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know, you don't have an idea of
what they look like.

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Exactly.
Yeah.

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You know, it's a baby.
Yeah, it's abstract.

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Thought we didn't even have a
name for him.

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Yeah.
And it's not in your body.

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Yeah, you know, you can react
to, you know, it's in your body.

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You know the movements and
stuff.

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You have much more of a head on
what's normal, what's not.

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From our point of view, we're
just relying on that information

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coming from our partner.
And also we just don't know

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anything about how they're
getting on.

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We just see a bump growing.
Yeah, is is anxiety inducing and

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you worry.
And also I don't know about you,

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I felt a lot of the time like if
we ever went through a period of

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like ohh bit worried about this
because there were bits in the

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pregnancy where we were just
like, oh gosh, like what's

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happening?
Blah blah.

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I felt like I had to be the one
to be more rational and at least

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exhibit confidence that
everything's OK, even though

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absolutely at points I was like,
Oh my God, I'm really scared.

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Like, I'm really worried.
What's gonna happen?

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Yeah, I guess that's how I feel
now.

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I do generally try to be that if
I'm not doing the growing of the

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baby, the least I can do is try
to be a good support.

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But yeah, this morning was way
around 100%.

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Like Lauren was consoling me
because I was just panicking.

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I was really panicking.
I will say one thing.

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After the baby comes, it doesn't
get better.

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And I thought that it just
changes because it goes from

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like the unknown.
Yeah, to still the unknown, but

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you can see what's going on.
Yeah, because your job as a

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parent for that, for the first.
Well, for forever really.

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But particularly those first few
months is like cool.

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That thing over there the relies
on you to survive and that's

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your job now, apparently.
And it's like, OK, that's

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terrifying.
Thanks.

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Yeah.
Like Rory's on medicine.

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He's got some more fresh, quite
normal.

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But the anxiety and even giving
him that because it's not milk

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that he should drink, you know,
He's drinking milk and he's

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growing and he's a baby.
The idea of me putting chemicals

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in his mouth, even though I know
it's medicine and I know it's to

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treat his stache, which is
probably making him

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uncomfortable.
Yeah, and we're we're doing it,

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of course.
But that first time it went in,

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I almost felt like I wanted to.
Just like throw it in the bin.

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No, no, no, no.
And we put it off for a day.

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We didn't do it for a day
because we were like, ohh, but

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he just wants his milk.
Like we just felt wrong doing

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it.
But it's the best thing that's

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helpful for him.
You gotta listen to, you know

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what's good for him.
And yeah, I mean, the anxiety,

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it just changes like I've said
before, during the night, you

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know, beforehand I slept quite
well and it might have been

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Lauren who didn't because like,
she was up, always kicking,

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always uncomfortable.
Yeah.

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Now I sleep badly because I I
hear him breathing and I'm just

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like, I don't know what's
normal.

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Yeah.
So, like, it's it's the it's the

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unknown.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
For.

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Sure, it will become normal.
It will, yeah, will become.

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It's already becoming.
Everyone says I don't know, you

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just becomes you become
experienced, becomes more

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normal.
But I suppose the positive side

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is Lauren has now started her
maternity leave officially,

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which is really cool.
So she's now on a really big

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milestone for me.
How do you feel?

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Like it wasn't me off, but I
felt like it was a huge

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milestone in terms of our shared
experience of the pregnancy in

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that that's just one less thing.
Yeah, I'm loving it because it's

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also one less thing for us to
worry about because I was

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getting to the point where I'm
worrying about her at work.

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We're all teachers, all four of
us.

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And so the idea of my 36 week
old, 36 week pregnant girlfriend

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at school. 36 week old
girlfriend.

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I was like, hang on a minute
walk, like walking around at

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school.
It's just super vulnerable and

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obviously in pain and just
generally more tired and knuckle

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and stuff.
I'm like, I don't like this.

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Can she just be at home?
Nesting weight lifted off, isn't

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it?
Yeah, so now I know she's just

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at home, just chilling out, just
relaxing, not being stressed.

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I know they have.
Yeah, exactly.

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They met up and that was nice to
know.

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So that was cool.
But in terms of other news, not

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just related to babies at school
this week, you'll be pleased to

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know, yeah, I found my people.
So in my class, I've got a group

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of boys, and they're just so
cool and quirky, right?

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And one of them was talking
about origami on Tuesday.

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Do you like origami?
It's not something I know about.

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You know you were obsessed.
As a kid, I loved origami.

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I just got obsessed with folding
paper.

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And you do and what I said and
and and these kids, these kids

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are really into it.
And normally when kids talk

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about origami, they just they
they do the most simple things

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ever.
It's not really that

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interesting.
You pretend, but these guys were

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doing, like, really complex
stuff and I was like, oh.

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But tomorrow lunchtime, if you
want to, we could do some

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origami together.
This is me saying knowing full

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well I'll need to mark
pretending that it's for them.

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Yeah, it's for you.
And we had such a good time.

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They came back at lunchtime.
One of them brought in his

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origami book.
They all came.

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I got some paper and we sat
there and we made some stuff

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together.
They made a dragon, we made a

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flower.
And I enjoyed it so much, even

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00:09:27,030 --> 00:09:29,610
though I knew I had marking to
do and I really, really needed

227
00:09:29,620 --> 00:09:32,040
to get that done.
They enjoyed it and I really

228
00:09:32,050 --> 00:09:34,290
enjoyed it as well, to the point
where I was like, yeah, if you

229
00:09:34,300 --> 00:09:36,220
want, if you want, we can do it
every Wednesday.

230
00:09:36,290 --> 00:09:42,110
What's What's better net for the
children genuinely then doing

231
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,050
that club with you?
Well, having their way or having

232
00:09:44,060 --> 00:09:46,510
their work, honestly, yeah, is
that 100%?

233
00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:51,070
Yeah, the market, the mark I
worked the work I marked like I

234
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,650
mean we've talked about it
before and we'll have a whole

235
00:09:52,660 --> 00:09:54,060
conversation.
I mean today is going to be

236
00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:55,750
great for it because we are
going to literally.

237
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,750
Do that later.
But yeah, so I do think that was

238
00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,580
a much better experience.
But the problem is, I still have

239
00:10:00,590 --> 00:10:02,650
to get the work marked, even
though I don't think it was

240
00:10:02,690 --> 00:10:06,810
particularly useful.
So that's my week anyway.

241
00:10:06,820 --> 00:10:08,930
I've waffled on there.
What about you?

242
00:10:08,980 --> 00:10:11,420
Well, I returned to work.
That was odd.

243
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,430
Not nice.
Tough day.

244
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:19,030
Day one at home with mom and
kid, just I think it's both of

245
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,610
us felt like quite isolated
separately.

246
00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:24,470
We've had three weeks like just
glued together, glued together,

247
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,070
and I do one thing, she Lauren
can rest.

248
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:29,390
Lauren does something, I can
rest.

249
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,090
It's just this whole tag thing
kind of thing.

250
00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:35,310
For it to be manageable suddenly
it's no, you've got to do it,

251
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,770
Dylan, me, you've got to do it
all morning before you go and

252
00:10:38,780 --> 00:10:40,780
then you've got to go to work
and then it's your turn when you

253
00:10:40,790 --> 00:10:42,990
get home as well, which is
incredibly intense.

254
00:10:43,340 --> 00:10:46,020
But it's also exactly how it
needs to be, because that 10

255
00:10:46,030 --> 00:10:49,190
hours whilst I'm at work is even
more intense for Lauren at home.

256
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,490
Yeah, like it's I I can't
imagine not being able to, like,

257
00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:55,280
being tethered to this baby.
It's it's beautiful.

258
00:10:55,290 --> 00:10:57,220
Do you want, do you know that's
the unpopular opinion still,

259
00:10:57,230 --> 00:11:02,050
what's that like in culture that
that, like so many, so much of

260
00:11:02,060 --> 00:11:06,640
male culture, still insists that
I'm at work, I'm, I'm at work as

261
00:11:06,650 --> 00:11:09,290
the man doing work.
So therefore I'm knackered in

262
00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:11,120
the evening.
You're just at home all day of

263
00:11:11,130 --> 00:11:12,030
the baby.
You crack on.

264
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,570
How mad is that?
Like perspective.

265
00:11:15,620 --> 00:11:19,300
I think we need to really push
and keep and and not take

266
00:11:19,310 --> 00:11:20,270
praise.
I don't want.

267
00:11:20,370 --> 00:11:23,020
I think it should be normal.
Yeah, I don't like it.

268
00:11:23,090 --> 00:11:25,240
Like I've had a lot of people
say to me and it's lovely.

269
00:11:25,250 --> 00:11:27,300
It's like I say I don't like it.
Of course it's nice when people

270
00:11:27,310 --> 00:11:30,200
are nice to you, but I think it
just ingrains the culture, the

271
00:11:30,210 --> 00:11:33,540
amount of people who've said to
me, ohh, he never did that, ohh,

272
00:11:33,550 --> 00:11:35,860
he never did that.
Not the basic, yeah, not even

273
00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:38,790
like dissing him.
Not even dissing their partner.

274
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,370
Not even like saying it was a
bad thing.

275
00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:41,800
That was the norm.
You're normal.

276
00:11:41,950 --> 00:11:42,840
He never did.
Wow.

277
00:11:42,850 --> 00:11:46,360
You're changing the nappy?
Yeah, of course I am.

278
00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:48,820
It's a not what you want about.
You're getting up at night and

279
00:11:48,830 --> 00:11:51,710
doing yes, but you've got to go
to work in the morning.

280
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,270
You've got to look after and
keep a baby alive all day.

281
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:55,480
You need.
Rest as well.

282
00:11:55,570 --> 00:11:58,380
Yeah, it's not a one way St.
It's that idea of unpaid work,

283
00:11:58,390 --> 00:11:59,280
isn't it?
That's all it is.

284
00:11:59,290 --> 00:12:01,020
Like, yeah, we have.
We need to get out of this idea

285
00:12:01,030 --> 00:12:03,860
that work only counts as work
when you're paid for it, or the

286
00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:06,020
amount of money is proportionate
to the importance.

287
00:12:06,030 --> 00:12:08,480
Of how hard you're working.
Yeah, it's complete nonsense.

288
00:12:08,490 --> 00:12:11,640
It's rubbish because like I
always say when I'm at work,

289
00:12:11,650 --> 00:12:15,410
although it's tough and I'm
knackered, I'm really tired and

290
00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:16,850
we talk about teaching, being
full on.

291
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,370
At least I can have a three
minute conversation with another

292
00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:21,320
adult.
Hmm, at least I can interact.

293
00:12:21,330 --> 00:12:23,740
With the children go to the
toilet, I can go to the toilet

294
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:26,040
out thinking ohh yeah, who's
gonna look after the baby?

295
00:12:26,050 --> 00:12:29,850
Because genuinely after Monday
Lauren was calling me saying

296
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,720
when you're getting home I need
to go to the toilet.

297
00:12:31,730 --> 00:12:34,330
Yeah, like, how mad is that?
Yeah, she's she's been

298
00:12:34,340 --> 00:12:36,910
completely occupied because he
wouldn't, he wouldn't settle.

299
00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:38,210
He wouldn't settle for hours and
hours.

300
00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:40,800
So you have to be keeping them
busy because you don't want your

301
00:12:40,810 --> 00:12:42,270
baby to be upset.
Yeah.

302
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:43,890
Like, of course you don't like
you can't.

303
00:12:43,980 --> 00:12:46,500
And, you know, it might sound
silly to people or of course you

304
00:12:46,510 --> 00:12:48,920
can go to the toilet.
It's like, yeah, but we are, you

305
00:12:48,930 --> 00:12:51,360
know, really focused on his
well-being and then being happy.

306
00:12:51,370 --> 00:12:53,170
And he just gets into that
situation where you find

307
00:12:53,180 --> 00:12:55,820
yourself not being able to do
it, no time for yourself.

308
00:12:55,950 --> 00:12:59,250
So if that means I get home
knackered, but then I hold in my

309
00:12:59,260 --> 00:13:01,690
changing my feed him, I make
sure he's OK for the next couple

310
00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:05,180
of hours whilst Lauren just sits
down and just has a break to me.

311
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:06,760
That's fine.
I had a break.

312
00:13:06,970 --> 00:13:09,540
I had half an hour at lunchtime.
That's more than she got.

313
00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:11,680
Yeah.
You know, I just, I agree with

314
00:13:11,690 --> 00:13:13,650
you.
I think it's really important

315
00:13:13,660 --> 00:13:17,160
that as a culture we push that
it's it's a two way.

316
00:13:17,170 --> 00:13:18,300
Street.
I remember seeing a tick tock

317
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:19,500
before.
There was the same sort of

318
00:13:19,510 --> 00:13:22,300
thing, and it was like a video
of of a dad doing these, like

319
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:24,110
basic things.
And the and the video was all

320
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,930
like, wow.
And it just cut to someone else

321
00:13:25,940 --> 00:13:27,860
being basically been like, wow,
well done.

322
00:13:27,870 --> 00:13:30,410
He's doing basic parenting.
Yeah, yeah, he's doing the

323
00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:32,230
absolute basic necessities of
parenting.

324
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,860
Nothing impressive here
whatsoever.

325
00:13:33,870 --> 00:13:35,160
Just doing what you're supposed
to do.

326
00:13:35,170 --> 00:13:36,970
And if you can't, if you're not
going to do that, then don't be

327
00:13:36,980 --> 00:13:39,030
a parent.
Like like tomorrow evening for

328
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,310
example.
Lauren's mum got her tickets

329
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,890
ages ago for a show and and you
know Lauren was like, ohh, I

330
00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:48,210
don't know if it to go or not.
I think that that's just her

331
00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:49,890
personal opinion.
Like I don't know whether to I

332
00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:53,090
don't know whether I want to go
not not can I I know where I

333
00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:56,490
want to go and she was almost
like waiting for me to say what

334
00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:57,730
I thought.
Right.

335
00:13:57,740 --> 00:14:00,840
And I was like, I appreciate
that because we are you know you

336
00:14:00,850 --> 00:14:03,670
need to talk to each other and
organise stuff but I don't have

337
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,130
an opinion on whether you should
or shouldn't go and do

338
00:14:06,140 --> 00:14:08,130
something.
I'm here doing this podcast.

339
00:14:08,420 --> 00:14:11,350
It becomes when it's the mum
it's like, oh you're leaving are

340
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:12,570
you?
Yeah.

341
00:14:12,910 --> 00:14:15,280
Because I'm a human as well.
I'm a mum and I'm a woman.

342
00:14:15,290 --> 00:14:16,650
I wanna go.
I'm gonna go watch a show with

343
00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:21,200
my mum and then I hate the idea
and I I almost fall into the

344
00:14:21,210 --> 00:14:22,760
trap because I didn't even feel
this way.

345
00:14:22,810 --> 00:14:24,600
But you think to yourself, Yeah,
I'll look after him.

346
00:14:24,610 --> 00:14:26,420
Hmm.
As in like, as in it's a fake.

347
00:14:26,430 --> 00:14:28,900
Like, no, I'm not babysitting.
Yeah.

348
00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:32,060
The worst one I know.
It's like, no, no, I'm just

349
00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:34,000
being the dad.
There's no word.

350
00:14:34,010 --> 00:14:37,660
Just being that you're a 5050
team and I'm doing my share

351
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:40,340
right now, I'd be really
interested because obviously

352
00:14:40,350 --> 00:14:42,400
this is all brand new to us.
It's all very, very new to us

353
00:14:42,410 --> 00:14:45,070
and I imagine we've got a lot of
our listeners, perhaps our

354
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,730
parents.
Really, please write.

355
00:14:46,740 --> 00:14:49,820
Write us in with maybe some like
one or two, like your top things

356
00:14:49,830 --> 00:14:52,870
that you picked up as a parent
or or just even your opinions on

357
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,030
on this cultural side of things.
Because we really, really

358
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,420
interested to hear kind of your
experiences as apparent as well.

359
00:14:58,460 --> 00:15:02,050
I suppose the thing that we're
aiming for is the well-being of

360
00:15:02,060 --> 00:15:05,250
us to is going to be directly
linked to his well-being.

361
00:15:05,380 --> 00:15:09,870
If we let that slip for either
of us, then it's gonna end up

362
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,650
being detrimental to him.
If Lauren is absolutely

363
00:15:12,660 --> 00:15:14,650
knackered every single day she's
not getting any rest in the

364
00:15:14,660 --> 00:15:16,420
evening, then the days will be
worse.

365
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:19,250
Him and her, I agree.
So you know, it's it's a cycle

366
00:15:19,260 --> 00:15:22,810
we talk about all the time and I
think it's really tough for both

367
00:15:22,820 --> 00:15:24,810
of you.
But you have to take the load

368
00:15:25,020 --> 00:15:27,490
and work.
Isn't an automatic while I'm not

369
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:28,120
doing this.
Thing.

370
00:15:28,130 --> 00:15:30,380
Yep.
Anyway, so I'm trying to work.

371
00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:32,410
Yeah, that's my work.
It was weird.

372
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,930
It was tough but it was nice
because I got to see the

373
00:15:36,940 --> 00:15:38,010
children.
And they love you.

374
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,280
Thank you.
And so yeah, I I went back to

375
00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:47,990
work and before I left obviously
on playground duty, I was

376
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,830
speaking to some children I
taught last year.

377
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,200
Right.
And they were all very excited.

378
00:15:51,210 --> 00:15:53,390
They knew I was going off on
maternity leave and I'd asked

379
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,080
them specifically all for names
for the from for Rory because

380
00:15:56,090 --> 00:15:57,190
we.
Can't remember because they're

381
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:58,630
running around, running around.
What's the name?

382
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,530
And they're going up to you.
And I was like talking to

383
00:16:00,540 --> 00:16:03,750
everyone and they come up with
silly names like The Lorax and

384
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,390
half would be half.
Price spoke about it before.

385
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,560
And so one of the girls came up
to me and was like, what's his

386
00:16:09,570 --> 00:16:11,110
name?
Because she really took like,

387
00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:14,340
she took it as her job to get me
a name for him so she can't see

388
00:16:14,350 --> 00:16:16,080
what's his name, right.
Rory.

389
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:16,830
Rory.
His name.

390
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,820
She's Ohh Theory.
How lovely.

391
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:22,340
And you should have called him
Baby Gurkin like that because

392
00:16:22,350 --> 00:16:24,720
because of the Gerkin story, I
can't remember what I told the.

393
00:16:24,730 --> 00:16:26,870
Guy, we have at some point.
Go back and listen.

394
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,820
Anyway, all of the episodes to
find the Gherkin story where it

395
00:16:29,830 --> 00:16:32,640
was, but essentially my nickname
when I was younger was jerking

396
00:16:32,650 --> 00:16:34,880
and there's an origin story
behind that involving McDonald's

397
00:16:34,890 --> 00:16:37,000
jerking and a cricket coach that
are there.

398
00:16:37,190 --> 00:16:40,220
But I told my children this and
then I was Mr Gurkin for the

399
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:43,310
rest of the year.
And anyways, and I also told

400
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,160
them the story of how I was
named after gorilla because that

401
00:16:46,170 --> 00:16:48,600
was also what I told them.
I was naming my child because my

402
00:16:48,610 --> 00:16:50,650
mum went to Chester Zoo.
There was a new gorilla called

403
00:16:50,660 --> 00:16:52,300
Dylan.
That was my name Dylan from then

404
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:56,140
on.
So anyway, she said to me, oh,

405
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:57,720
you should have called it baby
Gerkin.

406
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,040
And then another kid was like,
yeah, baby gerking.

407
00:17:00,110 --> 00:17:03,450
It could be like or guerrilla or
guerilla.

408
00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:05,780
You could call him Gorilla Boy
or Baby Gorilla.

409
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:07,839
Remembered.
No, they do remember the story.

410
00:17:07,849 --> 00:17:10,050
And then the girl who came out
first, said Ohh.

411
00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:13,500
Yeah, it can be like Goldilocks
and the Three Bears, but instead

412
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:15,280
it's the free guerrillas and the
Gerkin.

413
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:17,930
I was like, you have to write
that.

414
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,329
I was like, that would be
amazing.

415
00:17:19,339 --> 00:17:21,349
You have to write that.
Yeah, I thought nothing of it.

416
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,470
Couple days passed.
I walk into assembly dropping my

417
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,609
kids off.
And I'm walking back through.

418
00:17:26,619 --> 00:17:29,050
And I just heard this voice in
assembly where you meant to be

419
00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:31,850
silenced because Mr. Price, Mr.
Price.

420
00:17:31,860 --> 00:17:33,270
And I'm looking around and it's
her.

421
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,570
And she was like, I've got the
story and it was in her pocket.

422
00:17:36,580 --> 00:17:39,210
No way.
So she got out of her pocket and

423
00:17:39,220 --> 00:17:41,950
she handed it to me.
I've left it at school

424
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,390
annoyingly.
So I'll make sure I'll post a

425
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,950
picture when I get it on our
Instagram TC Repeat podcast.

426
00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:49,550
And anyway, she'd rewritten
Goldilocks and the Three Bears,

427
00:17:49,660 --> 00:17:53,780
but it was Gurkin and the Three
Gorillas, and it was all about a

428
00:17:53,790 --> 00:17:56,220
twerking gurkin.
And she drew a Gurkin man

429
00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:58,820
knocking at the door.
The gorillas had gone away and

430
00:17:58,830 --> 00:18:01,450
the guy came home and the guy
was trying out the bed, that was

431
00:18:01,460 --> 00:18:03,440
trying out the sofa.
Here's what we're gonna do.

432
00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:05,320
Dylan is going to check out our
Instagram.

433
00:18:05,330 --> 00:18:08,920
He when he's got the story, he's
going to video himself reading

434
00:18:08,930 --> 00:18:10,490
off the story with a picture of
it as well.

435
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:12,080
And it's going to be an
Instagram reel.

436
00:18:12,090 --> 00:18:14,360
Check out.
I was like, you know, again,

437
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:16,140
everyone clicked on this
podcast.

438
00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:18,240
You clicked on it because we're
obviously going to be talking

439
00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:21,460
about the dire situation of this
whole profession, of the amount

440
00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:24,050
of teachers leaving.
This was one of them.

441
00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:26,610
Moments again where you just
like ohh of this.

442
00:18:26,620 --> 00:18:28,880
These are the best bits.
Yeah, This is why not everyone's

443
00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:31,390
leaving, Yeah, he says.
What's keeping me here, exactly?

444
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,650
It's what hooks you in.
And I tell you what, it's not

445
00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:37,520
doing 17 different lessons in
one day, but we'll go on to it

446
00:18:37,530 --> 00:18:39,000
anyway.
So that was really nice.

447
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,580
And one other thing I wanted to
talk about, we did a state of

448
00:18:42,590 --> 00:18:44,290
matter lesson.
So we were doing solid liquids

449
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:46,600
and gases just literally
introducing them and then we're

450
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:48,330
gonna do some experiments in
next couple of weeks.

451
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,260
So one it was very simple task,
OK.

452
00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:55,310
It was introducing solids,
liquids and gases.

453
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:56,960
We talked about what they are.
Hmm.

454
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,070
And it was literally just in the
context of rain, so in the

455
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,240
context of rather precipitation
because we talked about the

456
00:19:03,250 --> 00:19:05,540
water cycle.
So we said, OK, think about

457
00:19:05,550 --> 00:19:09,780
different types of precipitation
and where would you put them in

458
00:19:09,790 --> 00:19:12,220
a chart of solid, liquid and
gas.

459
00:19:12,330 --> 00:19:14,240
The point being that you
wouldn't really have anything

460
00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:17,960
gas but then you can have a
discussion about whether it's

461
00:19:17,970 --> 00:19:20,880
liquid or solid because and then
it it had some really cool it

462
00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:23,430
sparked some really cool and
discussions about how you can

463
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,390
change state because people like
Ohh well isn't snow a solid but

464
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,200
then when you catch it it turns
into turns into water but that's

465
00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:30,730
a liquid.
So it was a really nice

466
00:19:30,740 --> 00:19:33,400
conversation starter for them
but before we got into any of

467
00:19:33,410 --> 00:19:37,180
that it was simply just can you
think of anything precipitation.

468
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:39,630
And there's me thinking OK let
me clarify precipitation

469
00:19:39,820 --> 00:19:41,890
anything that falls from the
sky.

470
00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:44,180
Precipitation.
OK, so anything that falls from

471
00:19:44,190 --> 00:19:47,210
the sky, can you think of it?
Would it be a solid liquid or a

472
00:19:47,220 --> 00:19:51,410
gas at the kids are chatting
away, chat and I say right.

473
00:19:51,420 --> 00:19:54,040
OK, everyone's hands up.
Who's got anything that they

474
00:19:54,050 --> 00:19:57,330
think falls from the sky that is
a solid God puts hand up me.

475
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,420
So yes, what do you think?
A dead bird?

476
00:20:03,220 --> 00:20:04,970
It does.
It's my fault.

477
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:06,310
Does.
It's a solid.

478
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:08,760
It's a solid.
Liquid.

479
00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:09,970
Yeah.
I said no, it's not.

480
00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:12,230
Smoothie isn't OK.
Yeah, it's a solid.

481
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,860
But sorry, let me clarify guys.
I was thinking more solid,

482
00:20:15,870 --> 00:20:17,650
liquid and gases, but
precipitation.

483
00:20:17,660 --> 00:20:20,450
So like rain.
We'd say rain was a liquid.

484
00:20:20,740 --> 00:20:22,890
Can you think of anything that
is a solid?

485
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:27,180
Like if if water freezes, what
might it become?

486
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,430
So have we got anything that's a
solid that can fall from the

487
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,400
sky?
Another girl opposite your hand

488
00:20:32,410 --> 00:20:33,800
up, obviously thinking of me
going.

489
00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:36,660
Water freezes so that becomes
solid, but hand up?

490
00:20:36,670 --> 00:20:42,840
Yeah, a frozen dead bird.
At which point I couldn't.

491
00:20:42,850 --> 00:20:43,560
Serious.
I'm just.

492
00:20:43,570 --> 00:20:47,160
No, no, no, I don't know.
But the point being, I'm

493
00:20:47,170 --> 00:20:48,880
laughing.
So all the kids take that as a

494
00:20:48,890 --> 00:20:51,460
queue right now.
Cool.

495
00:20:51,470 --> 00:20:53,600
Next kid.
OK, brilliant.

496
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,760
We're all laughing.
Alright guys, seriously now.

497
00:20:55,770 --> 00:20:58,700
OK, a solid precipitation.
Please, someone say like solid.

498
00:20:58,710 --> 00:21:00,210
Yeah, please.
Can we think of something that

499
00:21:00,220 --> 00:21:01,520
is actually a solid?
Please.

500
00:21:01,530 --> 00:21:04,810
OK, well, just before you say
anything, I want a serious

501
00:21:04,820 --> 00:21:05,670
answer now.
OK?

502
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,760
No more silly business.
What do you think?

503
00:21:07,770 --> 00:21:13,020
I swear to God does Jesus.
What?

504
00:21:13,870 --> 00:21:15,530
That's hilarious.
Jesus, what?

505
00:21:15,540 --> 00:21:16,690
She's doing the.
Sky.

506
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:19,520
Yeah, I get the link up.
So, yeah, we just closed that

507
00:21:19,530 --> 00:21:20,900
book set up, yeah.
OK, yeah.

508
00:21:20,910 --> 00:21:22,770
Lessons done on guys.
Go home.

509
00:21:22,780 --> 00:21:23,860
Tell your parents what you
learned.

510
00:21:23,950 --> 00:21:27,780
See you later, Mr. Price said.
Dead bird was precipitation?

511
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:30,230
No, I didn't.
Well, no, he actually said Jesus

512
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,480
was.
So he got that wrong child.

513
00:21:33,690 --> 00:21:35,410
But very good.
We're back to work.

514
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:40,010
It was nice to see the children.
But I will say I would have

515
00:21:40,020 --> 00:21:41,820
rather been at home.
Probably for the first time in

516
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:44,840
my career I was like, ohh, I
would just rather not.

517
00:21:44,850 --> 00:21:46,500
I'd rather be at home now.
Yeah, fully.

518
00:21:46,510 --> 00:21:48,090
Yeah.
And I get that's just that's

519
00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:49,900
just being.
About you think it affected how

520
00:21:49,910 --> 00:21:52,660
quickly you got stuff done, or
was it just normal work?

521
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,200
Yeah, it affected A, how quickly
I got stuff done.

522
00:21:55,210 --> 00:21:56,720
And B, how much stuff I got
done.

523
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,680
She was just like, well, I'm
going, yeah.

524
00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:03,340
Especially on that first day
when Lauren was, like,

525
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:05,830
struggling at home.
Yeah, she needed, she needed she

526
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,750
had a bad day and she was like,
when you coming home was like,

527
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,100
cool right now.
Yeah, obviously.

528
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:11,230
And if anything didn't get done,
I would literally just be like,

529
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,940
yeah, sorry, No, because I get 2
weeks off to look after a baby.

530
00:22:15,650 --> 00:22:18,780
So the fact I've delivered my
lessons, actually, that's what

531
00:22:18,790 --> 00:22:21,440
we're getting today, I'm afraid.
And no one was funny about it,

532
00:22:21,450 --> 00:22:23,330
you know?
But if someone was funny about

533
00:22:23,340 --> 00:22:25,990
it, I would be very comfortable
being like, Nah.

534
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,740
Sorry, no, I do.
I'll do 10 hours.

535
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:30,410
I'll do 10 hours of work.
I was in the building for that

536
00:22:30,420 --> 00:22:31,840
long.
And if there's something else

537
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:34,580
that needs doing because after
that, then that the system is

538
00:22:34,590 --> 00:22:35,910
broken.
And I thought that, anyway,

539
00:22:36,180 --> 00:22:39,300
that's what I was thinking.
So, I mean, you know, my baby's

540
00:22:39,310 --> 00:22:39,710
at.
Home.

541
00:22:39,780 --> 00:22:41,250
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.
Bye.

542
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,640
I get it.
I get it.

543
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:44,370
But yeah, I mean, interesting
week.

544
00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:47,550
There's there's a poo story
running that post.

545
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,610
Story Whose story We Wanna Poo
Poo story.

546
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,890
I tried not to talk about Rory
because last week.

547
00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:55,730
Ohh Rory.
God this just sums.

548
00:22:55,740 --> 00:22:56,900
Oh, my God.
Anyone listening?

549
00:22:56,910 --> 00:22:59,550
Had a newborn.
Like, I'm going through this

550
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,380
learning curve, OK?
And anyone who hasn't got a

551
00:23:01,390 --> 00:23:03,360
newborn, get ready for what
you're in for if you ever do

552
00:23:03,370 --> 00:23:06,780
plan on having children.
So this was today.

553
00:23:06,850 --> 00:23:11,300
OK, wake up in the morning.
And he fed.

554
00:23:11,570 --> 00:23:15,010
OK, so he's feeling all good.
Changed his nappy after he fed.

555
00:23:15,450 --> 00:23:17,420
Went back.
Just hold an image awake for a

556
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:19,280
bit, Laura.
Like he's pooed.

557
00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:24,170
OK, he had pooed big poo, big
poo, filled the nappy.

558
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:27,580
OK, it's like, OK, come on then.
Because technically we try and

559
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:30,330
do shifts in the night.
Technically it was Lauren shift.

560
00:23:30,420 --> 00:23:32,030
And because I'd I'd got up, I'd
fed him.

561
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,700
I changed him.
I went upstairs because it's my

562
00:23:33,710 --> 00:23:36,690
first day working from home and
I was like, ohh, he's settled.

563
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:38,130
I'm gonna go and do a bit of
work.

564
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,470
So 20 minutes into doing work
all I hear was Dylan.

565
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,100
Yeah.
He's done a massive poo and I'm

566
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:47,470
like, OK, I'm at home so there's
two of us.

567
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,330
Let's make it easy.
I'll go down and help out

568
00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:51,100
obviously.
I was obviously waiting for a

569
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:53,250
reason to go and see him because
I'll be doing that than working.

570
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,160
Went downstairs did a massive
poo turning to me changing him.

571
00:23:56,170 --> 00:23:59,870
Basically I'm going to come here
so I take the nappy off a lot of

572
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,130
poo.
Ohh God.

573
00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:04,290
OK, so wiping around carefully.
Poo gets everywhere.

574
00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:05,250
OK.
All over him.

575
00:24:05,260 --> 00:24:07,070
So I'm wiping around carefully.
Lovely.

576
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:09,610
OK, take it off put the nappy
off.

577
00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:12,170
And I was like cool, wear white.
We're clean.

578
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,880
Went and got the other nappy.
As I'm getting the other nappy,

579
00:24:14,890 --> 00:24:20,280
all I hear is Ohh that's like
grabbing the other nappy.

580
00:24:20,350 --> 00:24:22,160
He's pooed all over his changing
man.

581
00:24:22,170 --> 00:24:25,090
Like like I'm talking like a dog
in the street when they've got a

582
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:27,280
bit of diarrhoea.
Like, it's not got any form.

583
00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:29,950
It's just all over the changing
mat, which, by the way, he's

584
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,860
kicking his legs.
So he's bums, like rushing it,

585
00:24:32,910 --> 00:24:34,960
rubbing it in.
He's kicking his legs, he's

586
00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:36,540
coming right up.
He's flicking it with his toes.

587
00:24:36,550 --> 00:24:39,090
I'm like, no stop.
So I'm having to hold him.

588
00:24:39,130 --> 00:24:42,300
So I'm like, ohh God, OK.
So I'm, I shift him up the

589
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:43,300
changing mat.
OK.

590
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:46,280
So there's just a pile of poo on
the changing mat and he's like a

591
00:24:46,290 --> 00:24:47,720
good, like 10 centimetres up
now.

592
00:24:47,790 --> 00:24:50,020
Yeah.
Like, Oh my OK, so I make the

593
00:24:50,030 --> 00:24:53,140
decision at that point to leave
the pile of poo because I'm

594
00:24:53,150 --> 00:24:55,130
actually gonna wipe him up, try
and get on a nappy straight

595
00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:56,530
away.
Yeah, so I'm wiping him up,

596
00:24:56,540 --> 00:24:58,390
wiping them up, just about to
finish.

597
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,130
I do one last wipe.
Yeah, he starts pooping in my

598
00:25:01,140 --> 00:25:04,130
hand, like honestly, on the
tissue.

599
00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:06,940
And Lauren, just watching,
laughing, head off, not doing

600
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:08,290
anything, by the way, just
watching me.

601
00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:11,440
He's pooping on my hand, so he
literally started peeing on my.

602
00:25:11,450 --> 00:25:12,430
Hand.
Oh my God.

603
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:13,850
Fills it up.
And I'm like, you're really

604
00:25:13,860 --> 00:25:16,930
selling this First time ever
that I, like, felt like I was

605
00:25:16,940 --> 00:25:17,860
going to be sick.
Yeah.

606
00:25:17,870 --> 00:25:20,920
OK, so piling onto my hand.
Sorry, listeners.

607
00:25:21,050 --> 00:25:24,340
And by the way, as he's putting
onto my hand, he got sick onto

608
00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:27,450
the side, So he's turned over.
He's got white sick going out of

609
00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:29,140
him.
I was like, Oh my God, I don't

610
00:25:29,150 --> 00:25:30,900
know what to do.
There's a pile of poo by my

611
00:25:30,910 --> 00:25:32,500
hand.
But I keep nearly dipping my

612
00:25:32,510 --> 00:25:35,290
hairy forearm into.
I'm holding his poo that he's

613
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:37,860
just done out of his bum.
So I managed to fold it over,

614
00:25:37,870 --> 00:25:40,430
get another tissue.
OK yeah, I put it in, put it in

615
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,160
the bin and then like, OK, wait,
getting a nappy.

616
00:25:43,210 --> 00:25:45,160
I'm like, I need to get the
nappy under him.

617
00:25:45,210 --> 00:25:46,970
But I also want to get rid of
this because I keep really

618
00:25:46,980 --> 00:25:48,660
dipping into it.
So I'll start wiping that poo

619
00:25:48,670 --> 00:25:50,790
up.
OK, a nappy under.

620
00:25:50,860 --> 00:25:53,350
Yeah, starts pouring.
No, he pooed a third time.

621
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,070
Third time, Third time.
OK, In a row.

622
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,810
And I was like, oh, that's
another nappy gone.

623
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,090
OK, so I got.
I'm wiping him.

624
00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:00,110
OK, cool.
We're clean.

625
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,050
Nice.
Put that down.

626
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,390
I literally stand up to go and
put stuff in the bag and get out

627
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,520
of the way.
What does he do?

628
00:26:06,580 --> 00:26:10,040
Pose again, No 6 big old weed
all over the carpet.

629
00:26:11,580 --> 00:26:12,940
And at that point he's quite
relieved.

630
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:15,620
He's just looking at me like
staring like, hey, hey daddy,

631
00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:18,540
that's a free poos and you
caught two of them and I've

632
00:26:18,550 --> 00:26:21,890
pissed.
Everywhere so so sick in his

633
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:24,320
mouth. 3 poos pooed on the pooed
on the mat.

634
00:26:24,330 --> 00:26:29,390
We on the carpet pooed on hand.
This was the most disgusting bit

635
00:26:29,620 --> 00:26:31,300
at the end.
There was a bit of poo,

636
00:26:31,310 --> 00:26:32,790
obviously on the mat still.
Hmm.

637
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:35,880
I get a wipe.
I wipe it right.

638
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,650
I look at my hand.
The poo's gone through the wipe

639
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,490
onto my finger.
I'm like, how has that happened?

640
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:45,130
It's gone through the wipe.
It was it was disgusting.

641
00:26:45,140 --> 00:26:47,110
And I just want you to feel
ready.

642
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:49,450
Yeah.
I am looking forward to it.

643
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:51,990
I am looking forward to it.
I have to tell myself he's

644
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,650
sloppy poo in my hand, nice,
obviously on a tissue.

645
00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:59,280
But yeah, yeah, I mean that was
one of the most chaotic, like 10

646
00:26:59,290 --> 00:27:01,300
minutes ever.
Went through three nappies.

647
00:27:01,890 --> 00:27:03,700
Had to change him because ohh
yeah.

648
00:27:03,710 --> 00:27:06,120
At this point by the way, we're
like, OK, we gotta change him

649
00:27:06,130 --> 00:27:07,780
cause a bit of poo on his back.
Goes up his back.

650
00:27:07,790 --> 00:27:10,220
Yeah, poo goes up his back.
Poo comes down out of the bum.

651
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:13,090
But somehow at the back, yeah.
Covered his back in poo so he

652
00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:15,560
took it off and Oh my God, he's
tops covered in poo.

653
00:27:15,610 --> 00:27:18,120
So I had to roll the top up to
get rid of all the poo.

654
00:27:18,130 --> 00:27:21,120
Oh my God, get it over his head.
And then that just goes in like

655
00:27:21,130 --> 00:27:22,680
some cold water and try and get
the poo out.

656
00:27:22,690 --> 00:27:24,560
Yeah, yeah.
But then obviously I'll pick him

657
00:27:24,570 --> 00:27:27,140
up and I said I was going to poo
in his back And orange goes,

658
00:27:27,390 --> 00:27:30,190
yeah, I'll grab a couple of
wipes to wipe his whole back

659
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,390
down.
Ohh see she's got poo all over

660
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:33,790
him.
Yeah, we ended up having to like

661
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,030
top and tailing that properly
wash.

662
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,090
Him.
You're not potty trained him

663
00:27:36,100 --> 00:27:36,570
yet?
No.

664
00:27:36,580 --> 00:27:38,020
No.
Three weeks in sometime.

665
00:27:38,030 --> 00:27:39,950
Yeah, that's my poo story.
Ohh man, that is.

666
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,290
That's kind of a trigger
warning.

667
00:27:41,300 --> 00:27:44,740
Yeah, I hope people are
listening, Eva, reminiscing on

668
00:27:44,750 --> 00:27:48,300
times where you've experienced
this or thinking haha, might not

669
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:50,130
want to do that.
That is pretty funny.

670
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,780
We've had a long tell you what.
I think those blokes back in the

671
00:27:54,790 --> 00:27:57,890
day.
I've changed my mind.

672
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,250
Why?
Maybe the culture?

673
00:28:02,090 --> 00:28:08,350
It wasn't so bad after all.
What could have made you think

674
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:10,750
that or that?
Brace yourself.

675
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,220
Power.
Brace yourself.

676
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:13,970
Ohh dear, but won't have any
other way.

677
00:28:14,740 --> 00:28:18,380
Well, about the poo would be
good, but right?

678
00:28:18,390 --> 00:28:19,640
Should we go to our actual?
Tour.

679
00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:23,690
Let's do it.
So if you're watching the

680
00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:25,920
episode, you've ever been sent
it by someone who listened, I

681
00:28:25,930 --> 00:28:28,260
thought was good, or you clicked
on the title because we were

682
00:28:28,270 --> 00:28:31,230
talking about teacher retention.
There are, there are a lot of

683
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,330
teachers leaving the profession,
a huge amount, more than ever.

684
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,610
And this was inspired, I think,
headed by something you an

685
00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:40,080
interaction you had online, you
spoke to someone as well, asked

686
00:28:40,090 --> 00:28:41,470
them about it, they're
background.

687
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,380
So firstly, what did you see
that kind of sparked?

688
00:28:44,390 --> 00:28:47,670
This so it was a very brief
interaction I had on Facebook

689
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,720
actually in a group, and I asked
this person if they wouldn't

690
00:28:50,730 --> 00:28:51,830
mind me sharing.
It was all good.

691
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,800
They just said to be anonymous.
And they had commented on a post

692
00:28:54,810 --> 00:28:57,030
where someone was really,
really, really struggling with

693
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,190
that job.
And they were, it was teaching

694
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,880
post, yeah, teaching.
It was one of those cries for

695
00:29:00,890 --> 00:29:02,320
help.
Like, I don't know what to do.

696
00:29:02,330 --> 00:29:04,980
I can't do this anymore.
This job is just too much.

697
00:29:05,130 --> 00:29:08,090
And this person commented, and
it really caught my attention.

698
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:09,360
I'm going to read the comment to
you.

699
00:29:09,370 --> 00:29:13,220
She said, as someone said to me
at school today, unfortunately,

700
00:29:13,230 --> 00:29:16,740
to survive these days, you just
have to not care.

701
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:19,060
And at first, I was really
triggered by that.

702
00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:22,340
I was like, no, like, that
sounds like what would you not

703
00:29:22,350 --> 00:29:23,660
care?
Of course we care about you

704
00:29:23,670 --> 00:29:26,130
don't care about the children.
But she was making a wider

705
00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:28,150
point, she said.
Not care about fabulous,

706
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,770
fabulous experiences for
children.

707
00:29:29,780 --> 00:29:31,170
Not care about brilliant
teaching.

708
00:29:31,180 --> 00:29:33,370
Not care.
Care about being exciting.

709
00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:34,710
Not care about learning how to
read.

710
00:29:34,940 --> 00:29:37,330
Being a great subject lead just
not care.

711
00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:39,940
Turn up, teach the naff
PowerPoint lessons they give

712
00:29:39,950 --> 00:29:42,650
you, do the pointless subject
leader tasks and go home.

713
00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:46,230
It's so sad And her actual point
it came across a bit like ohh

714
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,210
terrible terrible advice there.
Her point was to this person who

715
00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:53,110
was struggling.
If you try to do every single

716
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,040
thing that they're expecting of
you.

717
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,010
You will burn out and be in the
state that you're in now because

718
00:29:58,020 --> 00:30:02,000
you just can't do it all now.
And what happens when you're

719
00:30:02,010 --> 00:30:04,120
burnt out and you have nowhere
else to turn?

720
00:30:04,250 --> 00:30:06,300
You quit.
You quit your job and it leads

721
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:08,060
into that greater point, I
guess.

722
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:10,980
And I suppose what we want to do
is start off by giving everyone

723
00:30:10,990 --> 00:30:14,000
some context about teacher
retention and how many teachers

724
00:30:14,010 --> 00:30:15,680
are leaving the well, luckily
it's really good because the

725
00:30:15,690 --> 00:30:17,310
government told us they did.
They did tell us.

726
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,480
They did more.
They liked to spin things.

727
00:30:19,490 --> 00:30:21,020
Yeah.
The the headline from the

728
00:30:21,030 --> 00:30:23,920
government was very interesting
was we have and this is true.

729
00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:24,760
This is true.
Hayden.

730
00:30:24,830 --> 00:30:27,390
This is true.
You can't say it's not true.

731
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,710
We have more teachers than ever
before teaching and we said this

732
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,410
last episode.
If you listen to our last

733
00:30:33,420 --> 00:30:37,150
episode or watched it, more
importantly and you'll know we

734
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,080
said that we made this analogy
about that being meaningless and

735
00:30:40,090 --> 00:30:43,070
we're going to explore how
meaningless that that stat.

736
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,910
So yeah, let's start with that
stat.

737
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,350
Anyone kind of reading the
government line or maybe even

738
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,610
certain papers, you know, we'll
have only seen the headline.

739
00:30:50,620 --> 00:30:52,070
There are more teachers than
ever.

740
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,450
Fantastic.
What are they all worried about

741
00:30:54,460 --> 00:30:56,510
retention for?
Why are we all striking?

742
00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:58,360
Well, here are the headline
figures.

743
00:30:58,420 --> 00:31:00,600
So you wanna run through?
Them, all of them are gonna go

744
00:31:00,610 --> 00:31:03,640
for OK, right.
So in the last bit of

745
00:31:03,650 --> 00:31:08,570
information that was gathered,
so 2122 academic year. 40,000

746
00:31:08,580 --> 00:31:12,920
teachers left teaching and
that's not including retirement.

747
00:31:12,930 --> 00:31:17,690
Umm 40,000, That's working age
teachers as a percentage.

748
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:23,370
That's nine percent. 9% of
teachers left the profession

749
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,210
that year.
One in 10.

750
00:31:25,220 --> 00:31:28,720
If you know of 10 teachers, one
of them quit.

751
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,710
That is unbelievable.
And you might be thinking, ah,

752
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,030
but that's just another spin.
That's just normal.

753
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,320
You know, we recruit those
people.

754
00:31:36,330 --> 00:31:40,210
No, it's the largest, largest
number of people quitting since

755
00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:44,210
records began in 2000 and 10.
And I think one thing on whilst

756
00:31:44,220 --> 00:31:46,680
we're talking about how many
teachers quit, this number

757
00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:49,870
staggered me because it's quite
a long process to go through to

758
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,860
become a teacher.
Yeah.

759
00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:54,880
So what percentage viewers
listeners at home might you

760
00:31:54,890 --> 00:31:57,540
think after one year quit the
job?

761
00:31:57,550 --> 00:32:00,440
Screaming at the screen.
Yeah, I mean, but your earbuds?

762
00:32:00,450 --> 00:32:02,940
The earbuds, you're walking to
work or driving to work.

763
00:32:03,010 --> 00:32:06,080
What percentage of teachers quit
the job after just one year?

764
00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:09,630
So if I was at home, I'd be
thinking, well, it's just a few

765
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,820
percent, I guess, because if 9%
queer, then I guess a whole

766
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:14,730
bunch of them must be old to
teach.

767
00:32:14,740 --> 00:32:15,500
You've tried it?
Yeah.

768
00:32:15,510 --> 00:32:17,560
And also you've got that
honeymoon phase when you start

769
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:18,720
teaching.
We've talked about it.

770
00:32:18,730 --> 00:32:20,980
We enjoyed it way more back then
because it was all new.

771
00:32:20,990 --> 00:32:22,490
We're fresh.
Yeah, 13%.

772
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:27,380
Yeah, higher 13 percent, 13% of
teachers who qualified in

773
00:32:27,390 --> 00:32:30,500
September the year before have
quit by September the year

774
00:32:30,510 --> 00:32:31,760
after.
That's mad isn't it?

775
00:32:31,770 --> 00:32:34,000
They could have done a
three-year course at university,

776
00:32:34,010 --> 00:32:38,810
paid 304050 grand in fees, and
it was so bad that they were

777
00:32:38,820 --> 00:32:42,350
like, I can't do this.
I I will take the debt and the

778
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,920
voice of three years and not do
this.

779
00:32:44,380 --> 00:32:46,750
Well, I guess we, we touched on
this earlier team.

780
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,750
It's mad, isn't it?
We touched on this early though,

781
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,230
about government spin.
So the government came under

782
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,730
fire.
Yeah, because they basically

783
00:32:54,740 --> 00:32:57,890
took all this information and
their headline was, well, we

784
00:32:57,900 --> 00:32:59,770
have more teachers involved than
ever.

785
00:32:59,780 --> 00:33:03,330
Why is that bogus?
Well, because it goes back to my

786
00:33:03,340 --> 00:33:06,150
analogy from last week, this
idea of there's an increase in

787
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,490
population.
Teacher vacancies have gone up

788
00:33:10,580 --> 00:33:13,050
every single year.
There are more teacher vacancies

789
00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:15,090
now even though we have more
teachers than ever.

790
00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:18,060
There are also more teacher
vacancies available to be filled

791
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:22,240
because there are more children.
More human beings in the UK than

792
00:33:22,250 --> 00:33:25,150
there ever was.
So the number of pupils who are

793
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,250
of school age has gone up
quicker than the number of

794
00:33:28,260 --> 00:33:31,010
teachers we have.
So it's the classic thing of

795
00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:33,210
inflation, isn't it?
When ministers come out and say,

796
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,380
well, inflation is down 2%, it's
only 8% now.

797
00:33:36,420 --> 00:33:38,330
And someone said Ohh.
And people will see that in

798
00:33:38,340 --> 00:33:40,250
their pockets.
Yeah, because they have even

799
00:33:40,260 --> 00:33:42,210
less money.
It's still going up.

800
00:33:42,220 --> 00:33:44,030
Yeah.
So it's the same idea, yeah?

801
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,110
It's completely disingenuous.
And to put it into easy numbers,

802
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,360
like for this exact analogy
would be, OK, you've got 100

803
00:33:49,370 --> 00:33:51,450
classes and you've got 100
teachers one year.

804
00:33:51,460 --> 00:33:53,830
Brilliant.
OK, five years later, you've got

805
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,380
200 classes.
You've got 140 teachers.

806
00:33:56,390 --> 00:33:59,620
We've got 40 more teachers than
we ever had before.

807
00:33:59,630 --> 00:34:02,360
Ohh brother, let's pass out.
That's such a good.

808
00:34:02,370 --> 00:34:03,930
Analogy.
It's just that it's exactly, but

809
00:34:03,940 --> 00:34:04,950
that's what happened.
That's real.

810
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,670
This is not us like moaning like
ohh.

811
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,310
We were just, like, really
trying to exaggerate its literal

812
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,429
numbers and.
Acts Yeah, that's the state

813
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,610
we're in right now and I guess
kind of linked to that, this

814
00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:18,350
kind of breeds into that idea of
we have a problem there are too

815
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,170
many people leaving the
profession and the question is

816
00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:24,170
why?
Why are they leaving the

817
00:34:24,179 --> 00:34:26,449
profession?
And and one of the biggest

818
00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:30,280
issues I think we have is the
the government and we're going

819
00:34:30,290 --> 00:34:32,350
to go into our top five.
So I won't go into too much

820
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,219
detail, but another big issue we
have is that we kind of link to

821
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:38,909
what you're saying about
vacancies and and not recruiting

822
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,500
enough people.
The way it manifests itself more

823
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:44,500
seriously, in my opinion, is,
especially in secondary school,

824
00:34:44,830 --> 00:34:49,300
the amount of children receiving
teaching from a qualified

825
00:34:49,310 --> 00:34:51,600
teacher in that subject.
We have to be a specialist,

826
00:34:51,610 --> 00:34:54,179
whittling away exactly.
So if you're learning physics at

827
00:34:54,190 --> 00:34:58,380
a level or GCSE, you need to
have a qualified physics teacher

828
00:34:58,390 --> 00:35:00,320
to teach.
Me and you aren't gonna walk in

829
00:35:00,330 --> 00:35:02,660
as qualified teachers and be
able to do that job well.

830
00:35:02,670 --> 00:35:05,360
You know, like we always say, we
learn how to teach.

831
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:09,080
We have teaching strategies, but
you have to have a huge Bank of

832
00:35:09,090 --> 00:35:10,540
knowledge that takes years to
build up.

833
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:13,270
It's as simple as that.
In physics, Yeah, exactly.

834
00:35:13,310 --> 00:35:15,360
We could teach something we know
well.

835
00:35:15,450 --> 00:35:18,020
But but, and that's why in
primary school it kind of works

836
00:35:18,030 --> 00:35:20,960
because the level of what you
need to know is that of an 8

837
00:35:20,970 --> 00:35:22,440
year old.
So we can pick that up quite.

838
00:35:22,450 --> 00:35:25,140
Everything's more basic.
If it's CCNA level, we simply

839
00:35:25,150 --> 00:35:27,220
don't have that knowledge, no.
So you have to be taught by a

840
00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:30,170
specialist teacher who's been
taught how to teach that subject

841
00:35:30,180 --> 00:35:32,490
well.
And that is one of the biggest

842
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:35,480
problems we currently have in
this country is the amount of

843
00:35:35,490 --> 00:35:39,380
children, or rather percentage
of teaching hours that is taught

844
00:35:39,390 --> 00:35:41,460
by non specialists.
So we've got some data here.

845
00:35:41,470 --> 00:35:44,160
I'm going to test you out.
Yeah, I've purposely not looked

846
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:46,030
because he's got really excited
at this.

847
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,650
It it was, it was mad because
especially in the context of

848
00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:51,030
last week, we talked about
Gillian Keegan complaining about

849
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,070
Miss Teaching Days and how it's
horrendous.

850
00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:56,350
Well, here's a huge problem for
you to solve right now is that

851
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,570
we are having children taught by
non specialists.

852
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,030
That is also damaging.
Of course it is.

853
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,850
Of course it's not as good if
they're taught by people who

854
00:36:02,860 --> 00:36:04,590
aren't specialists.
So I'm just going to say a

855
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,510
subject, OK, I want you to whack
out what percentage of the total

856
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,850
time do you think is not taught
by specialists?

857
00:36:13,460 --> 00:36:14,970
I'm gonna guess for this
English.

858
00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:21,690
I say that's a lower one, 5%,
eight percent, 8%, OK, yeah, so

859
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:24,370
8 out of 100%, because to me,
English like that's quite a

860
00:36:24,380 --> 00:36:27,530
popular thing.
OK, OK, how about maths then?

861
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:30,000
Equally quite.
Ohh no.

862
00:36:30,070 --> 00:36:33,300
I found the same.
I reckon 7-8 percent, 13%.

863
00:36:33,310 --> 00:36:35,520
Ohh, no, it's higher.
Is it 13%?

864
00:36:35,530 --> 00:36:37,820
Of time taught by masters.
Talking mass.

865
00:36:37,830 --> 00:36:40,100
Mass is such a one where you
just really need someone who

866
00:36:40,110 --> 00:36:41,830
knows what they're doing.
Okay, physics.

867
00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:48,440
Uh, less popular I guess than
English and Maths subjects 5%

868
00:36:48,450 --> 00:36:55,050
ten percent 27.5 percent 27.5%
of teaching time in physics in

869
00:36:55,060 --> 00:36:57,360
this country is taught by a non
physics.

870
00:36:57,370 --> 00:37:00,380
Teacher can't be right.
Unbelievable. 25,000,000 days

871
00:37:00,390 --> 00:37:02,230
they lost last year.
Do you want to sort their

872
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:03,740
retention crisis out?
Because we need some.

873
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:06,160
Visits more than 1/4 of pupils.
Yeah.

874
00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:07,640
Mad.
And the last one.

875
00:37:07,650 --> 00:37:09,500
So government.
This last one I'm going to test

876
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:12,160
you on the government are huge
at the minute on the AI

877
00:37:12,170 --> 00:37:15,550
revolution and how AI going to
save us and workload is gonna be

878
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,070
solved You know she's saying
it's gonna have a big impact

879
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,270
we've seen it with teammate I
very helpful yeah.

880
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,690
But the government are really
leaning on this now they want it

881
00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:25,350
to be really important and they
know the importance of the

882
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,990
future of being a leader in this
and and that comes into

883
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,220
computing we teach computing at
school yeah yeah.

884
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:33,690
So obviously we need really,
really well qualified people

885
00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:35,080
teaching computing to our.
Children.

886
00:37:35,090 --> 00:37:36,230
Yeah.
Otherwise it can be like what we

887
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,540
got school, which is just
Microsoft Word and PowerPoint

888
00:37:38,550 --> 00:37:41,570
exactly, which is great for the
time, but it's all about coding

889
00:37:41,580 --> 00:37:43,430
now coding should be talking
about AI.

890
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,200
How to use AI to be a holistic
thing?

891
00:37:45,210 --> 00:37:49,360
How to use what percentage of
teaching time for computing do

892
00:37:49,370 --> 00:37:51,240
you think is taught by a non?
Specialist computing.

893
00:37:51,250 --> 00:37:53,420
The way you've pitched this, I
think it's going to be dreadful.

894
00:37:53,430 --> 00:38:02,890
I'm gonna guess 15 percent, 46
percent, 46%, nearly half of the

895
00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:06,040
time of the children in our
secondary schools, learning

896
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:09,840
computing is taught by a teacher
who is not a computing teacher.

897
00:38:10,050 --> 00:38:13,520
And this encapsulates the
problem we have in our education

898
00:38:13,530 --> 00:38:17,520
system, which is rooted in five
main reasons why teachers are

899
00:38:17,530 --> 00:38:19,920
leaving and not joining.
Should we go through all 5?

900
00:38:19,930 --> 00:38:21,000
Reasons.
I just say I want to say one

901
00:38:21,010 --> 00:38:22,880
thing because I feel like we
could come across badly.

902
00:38:22,940 --> 00:38:25,660
I don't want it.
No, we don't think.

903
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:27,430
Well, I certainly don't.
You horrible.

904
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:30,370
I don't think that if you're an
unqualified teacher you are

905
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:32,990
automatically bad.
But we know statistically

906
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,450
speaking, we're talking about a
countrywide level here.

907
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:38,290
Obviously, on average, people
who are specialised in a subject

908
00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:41,400
are just going to be delivering
that content in a better way.

909
00:38:41,410 --> 00:38:45,990
It would be all very much more
likely to be exactly just

910
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,550
statistical.
Yeah, I think if we pretend it

911
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,400
doesn't matter if you're
qualified in the subject or not,

912
00:38:50,410 --> 00:38:51,460
that's a really dark.
Route.

913
00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:52,330
Yeah, exactly.
And.

914
00:38:52,340 --> 00:38:54,330
But equally, if we pretend that
you're terrible if you're

915
00:38:54,340 --> 00:38:55,770
unqualified, that's not the
thing.

916
00:38:55,780 --> 00:38:58,500
On the individual level, clearly
this difference is like the

917
00:38:58,510 --> 00:39:00,500
classic thing.
Well, I was All right.

918
00:39:00,590 --> 00:39:01,680
Yeah.
OK, OK.

919
00:39:01,690 --> 00:39:04,780
Yes, you were OK.
But as a group of people, maybe

920
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:06,500
you weren't like that.
It's that kind of idea.

921
00:39:06,570 --> 00:39:07,680
Yeah.
Yes.

922
00:39:07,690 --> 00:39:08,620
Scary.
Scary.

923
00:39:08,690 --> 00:39:12,260
So we're gonna go through the
top five reasons what they here

924
00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:16,380
for, why teachers are quitting.
Or I suppose as well.

925
00:39:16,450 --> 00:39:18,340
Not joining according to Teacher
Repeat podcast.

926
00:39:18,350 --> 00:39:23,060
Let's Go.
OK, now of course this is a list

927
00:39:23,070 --> 00:39:26,430
that we've put together, but I
think it is beneficial.

928
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,270
Then yeah, it's official.
It's like the celebrations list

929
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,010
from last time.
Anyone disagrees?

930
00:39:30,020 --> 00:39:32,070
Wrong.
So we're gonna go in reverse

931
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,210
order.
So what we think of importance

932
00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:38,030
as why teachers are quitting #5
wiper.

933
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:39,830
Ofsted.
Why Ofsted?

934
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,930
Head We talked a little bit
about it last week and we have

935
00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:45,660
kind of dripped into some of our
conversations, but on the whole

936
00:39:46,020 --> 00:39:47,730
we do think it needs a bit of a
reform.

937
00:39:47,740 --> 00:39:50,970
It's not really causing
positivity in teachers.

938
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,780
Waves is it?
You know, most, most people get

939
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:55,680
very, very stressed out by the
thought of Ofsted and it does

940
00:39:55,690 --> 00:39:57,340
kind of just boil down to that
really.

941
00:39:57,830 --> 00:39:59,620
Any extra from you?
Well, why?

942
00:39:59,630 --> 00:40:01,680
Why is it only #5 then?
Why would you say?

943
00:40:02,110 --> 00:40:04,330
Because there are four things
that we think impact it way more

944
00:40:04,340 --> 00:40:04,880
that's.
Why?

945
00:40:04,890 --> 00:40:07,940
I think what I would say about
Ofsted is a reason why I think

946
00:40:08,010 --> 00:40:11,300
it's more drives people away.
I think until you're in the

947
00:40:11,310 --> 00:40:15,540
situation of being a teacher, I
think that you don't really

948
00:40:15,550 --> 00:40:18,400
realise the whole that can have
on a school and the grip it can

949
00:40:18,410 --> 00:40:22,420
have, especially on management
and I think the.

950
00:40:22,530 --> 00:40:24,830
Pressure from Ofsted is trickle
down.

951
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,770
I do think that and I think it's
very easy to get caught up from

952
00:40:28,780 --> 00:40:32,040
the top down pressure from
Ofsted on senior leadership,

953
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,830
senior leadership, feel that
pressure and try and get middle

954
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,810
leadership to be doing things
with their time.

955
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,880
Middle leadership, then realise
they don't have enough time to

956
00:40:38,890 --> 00:40:40,250
be doing that stuff.
And then it goes down to

957
00:40:40,260 --> 00:40:42,500
teachers, Yeah.
And it's that classic thing of I

958
00:40:42,510 --> 00:40:46,800
think the one thing Ofsted does
and I wonder if you can connect

959
00:40:46,810 --> 00:40:48,390
the dots here as to why I think
this.

960
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:54,000
OK, so I think Ofsted.
Um, is massively detrimental for

961
00:40:54,010 --> 00:40:58,500
the average teacher because of
the importance that that teacher

962
00:40:58,510 --> 00:41:01,680
is expected to place on every
single individual subject,

963
00:41:01,730 --> 00:41:03,440
right?
So do you think I know where I'm

964
00:41:03,450 --> 00:41:04,770
going with this?
Is it?

965
00:41:04,780 --> 00:41:07,180
Does it kind of link to your
trickle down analogy though in

966
00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:11,030
terms of?
So what I mean, what I mean by

967
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,890
it is it's because of Ofsted
that I feel pressured to be an

968
00:41:14,900 --> 00:41:18,580
expert in history and an expert
in geography and an expert in

969
00:41:18,590 --> 00:41:22,270
music and an expert in science
and an expert in English and.

970
00:41:22,350 --> 00:41:25,240
Computing and an expert in
computing and an expert in math.

971
00:41:25,250 --> 00:41:29,270
Because we don't know
necessarily if Ofsted come in

972
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,250
with their deep dive finger and
say, yeah, you can pick those

973
00:41:32,260 --> 00:41:33,600
two.
But by the way, I'm going to

974
00:41:33,610 --> 00:41:35,570
look at modern foreign
languages.

975
00:41:35,580 --> 00:41:38,950
Yeah, yeah, immediately.
That that idea of us not knowing

976
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,230
what we're going to come in and
deep dive means that every

977
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:46,550
single individual subject has to
be so finely prepared and

978
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,350
amazingly put together, which is
not a bad thing for our

979
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,920
children, but the pressure it
puts on a classroom teacher.

980
00:41:53,140 --> 00:41:55,450
Knowing that.
OK, Ofsted, we're in the Ofsted

981
00:41:55,460 --> 00:41:57,550
window.
They could come in and say

982
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:58,550
history.
OK.

983
00:41:58,590 --> 00:42:00,050
Do you know your substantive
concept?

984
00:42:00,060 --> 00:42:01,660
Do you know all of your
different reasons why we did

985
00:42:01,670 --> 00:42:02,740
this?
You know, the chronology across

986
00:42:02,750 --> 00:42:03,850
the school?
Do you know what they learned

987
00:42:03,860 --> 00:42:05,060
last year?
You know they will land next

988
00:42:05,070 --> 00:42:05,820
year.
Yeah.

989
00:42:05,830 --> 00:42:07,290
Ohh by the way.
Sorry, it might not even be

990
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:08,090
history.
It might be science.

991
00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:09,660
So here's the science.
Need to talk you through exactly

992
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:11,120
what to say.
The science comes and it's

993
00:42:11,130 --> 00:42:14,410
almost two separate arguments,
separate points because you

994
00:42:14,420 --> 00:42:17,350
mentioned about how it's not
necessarily bad, sort of said

995
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:18,850
that and it isn't necessarily
bad.

996
00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:21,450
I wouldn't want people to think
that we don't think that

997
00:42:21,460 --> 00:42:22,930
anything should be held
accountable.

998
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,310
The idea of not knowing what
they're going to deep dive in

999
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,740
does kind of makes schools make
ensure that everything's really

1000
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:31,240
good.
Tribes are standard, which is a

1001
00:42:31,250 --> 00:42:34,460
good thing.
However, it does still

1002
00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:36,390
regardless of what we think
that's good or not, it does

1003
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,040
still have the side effect of it
does make the stress of the job

1004
00:42:39,050 --> 00:42:41,220
horribly stressful and people
are quitting because of it.

1005
00:42:41,330 --> 00:42:44,440
So it's kind of like we've got
to consider both sides of this.

1006
00:42:44,490 --> 00:42:48,350
If we get rid of it, then maybe
standards will drop but maybe

1007
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,120
recruitment will maybe retention
sorry will be higher but then

1008
00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:54,720
standards have dropped.
So what we what we want here?

1009
00:42:55,580 --> 00:42:58,030
I guess.
Coming on to that again, Ofsted

1010
00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:00,670
that there is this idea again of
that they're perpetuating this

1011
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,390
culture and it's not necessarily
them because we've had an

1012
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,550
experience of wasted and I think
they're improving.

1013
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,330
I really do think they're
improving and they're putting a

1014
00:43:07,340 --> 00:43:10,630
lot more of the ball in the park
of the school and this.

1015
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,230
I think a lot of schools need to
realise that they don't need to

1016
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:14,630
be chasing their tail for
Ofsted.

1017
00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:18,490
And what a lot of schools do is
Ofsted comes in a local area, in

1018
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:21,650
their local area as local school
and then suddenly they get a

1019
00:43:21,660 --> 00:43:25,130
good Ofsted report.
So it's like right, OK, down the

1020
00:43:25,140 --> 00:43:27,010
road we're Ofsted inspected and
they got.

1021
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,400
A good or outstanding report.
What did they do?

1022
00:43:29,410 --> 00:43:31,000
Because we're gonna do it right
now.

1023
00:43:31,010 --> 00:43:33,400
Yeah.
And and that idea of you know,

1024
00:43:33,460 --> 00:43:34,940
OK, what are they doing?
Science call.

1025
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:36,300
We're going to change science
right now.

1026
00:43:36,350 --> 00:43:37,710
Ohh.
They do this in English and they

1027
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:38,650
focus on this instead.
Cool.

1028
00:43:38,660 --> 00:43:40,200
We're going to change English
right now.

1029
00:43:40,270 --> 00:43:42,960
And this idea of change and I
think the reason why Ofsted is

1030
00:43:42,970 --> 00:43:46,760
maybe 5th is because it
perpetuates something a bit

1031
00:43:46,770 --> 00:43:49,020
further up the list.
So maybe we should move back

1032
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:51,980
because yeah, this this is a
conversation that will happen

1033
00:43:52,050 --> 00:43:54,340
with one of our one of our last
points.

1034
00:43:54,350 --> 00:43:58,500
So Ofsted 5th, 5th in fourth
place, we've put culture.

1035
00:43:58,570 --> 00:44:01,180
Ohh, that's broad and it's very
broad and.

1036
00:44:01,190 --> 00:44:03,900
What do you mean by culture?
What I mean by cultures?

1037
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:05,520
There's lots of things that we
can talk about.

1038
00:44:05,530 --> 00:44:11,100
Culture for one art.
Museums, not so much that I'm

1039
00:44:11,110 --> 00:44:14,530
thinking more like parent
culture and how we're portrayed

1040
00:44:14,740 --> 00:44:17,750
in the media, for example, the
culture around teachers.

1041
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:18,350
And why?
Why?

1042
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,390
Why then, Hayden, would that
make teachers quit?

1043
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:21,650
Why is that driving teachers
out?

1044
00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:24,170
Well, if we talk about media for
a second, because it's terrible.

1045
00:44:24,180 --> 00:44:27,660
It's so negative all the time.
We're portrayed badly.

1046
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:30,870
We're portrayed really badly.
Teachers are portrayed terribly.

1047
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,920
And also, it's not hard to do
that because a lot of people

1048
00:44:33,930 --> 00:44:36,610
growing up don't have a great
experience at school, OK?

1049
00:44:36,620 --> 00:44:39,250
Because school is a system that
is very much one-size-fits-all,

1050
00:44:39,420 --> 00:44:42,220
and people do just go for it and
not have a good time.

1051
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:44,140
And so they grow up and think,
yeah, teachers are terrible.

1052
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:45,820
I hated my teachers.
I hated school.

1053
00:44:45,830 --> 00:44:48,720
Which, by the way, I do think
needs reform.

1054
00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:50,910
I think the teaching, you know,
that's a separate argument

1055
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,310
though.
But you know, there are good

1056
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,960
people in the job and it
whistles away you, doesn't it?

1057
00:44:54,970 --> 00:44:57,110
When when you know, imagine
being really stressed, you know,

1058
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,280
like I said, you're in the
office trying really hard to do

1059
00:44:59,290 --> 00:45:00,860
your job working.
Really hard.

1060
00:45:00,870 --> 00:45:02,130
And then this.
And then all you see in the

1061
00:45:02,140 --> 00:45:05,300
media is lazy.
Teachers want more pay for less

1062
00:45:05,310 --> 00:45:07,860
work.
More teacher pulled up because

1063
00:45:07,870 --> 00:45:10,060
they said that same sex marriage
is a thing.

1064
00:45:10,150 --> 00:45:13,210
How dare they?
Like come on Yeah wines me and

1065
00:45:13,220 --> 00:45:14,530
it's always the right wing
media.

1066
00:45:14,540 --> 00:45:17,970
It feels like who I I looking at
something to be wrong.

1067
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,330
I think that's something as a
teacher, we the the people in

1068
00:45:21,340 --> 00:45:24,370
power are always looking for
something to be wrong, unlike us

1069
00:45:24,380 --> 00:45:26,530
here at TC Repeat, but we only
talk about the good things.

1070
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,870
I mean, though, there, I think
it's important to say the people

1071
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,750
in charge, they are in charge of
education, that she is our boss.

1072
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,560
Jillian Keegan.
Yeah, whether we like it or not,

1073
00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:38,030
even, you know, it comes from
the top down.

1074
00:45:38,420 --> 00:45:40,270
It's always looking to trip us
up.

1075
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,630
She's not got a good word to say
about us.

1076
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:42,650
No, I don't think so.
That's it.

1077
00:45:42,660 --> 00:45:44,630
And if she does, it's hollow
because in the next sentence

1078
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,360
she'll say, by the way, we're
strip, you're stripping your

1079
00:45:46,370 --> 00:45:47,940
rights, you can't strike.
Yeah, it's rubbish.

1080
00:45:47,980 --> 00:45:50,520
So that's one part of culture
and also parents, I think.

1081
00:45:50,530 --> 00:45:53,400
It's always a fun conversation.
So OK, I think this is something

1082
00:45:53,410 --> 00:45:56,540
we can dive our teeth into, I
suppose, because we see a lot

1083
00:45:56,550 --> 00:46:00,340
online, don't we?
You combine 2 phrases, dive into

1084
00:46:00,350 --> 00:46:03,820
and dig it even to stick it.
We can dive our teeth into this

1085
00:46:03,830 --> 00:46:07,340
because parents is something.
I don't think either of us have

1086
00:46:07,350 --> 00:46:10,650
a hugely negative experience
with parents and the old couple

1087
00:46:10,660 --> 00:46:13,370
over the years, but.
But for sure, we see a lot of

1088
00:46:13,380 --> 00:46:16,120
experience with people who say,
right, I'm quitting because the

1089
00:46:16,130 --> 00:46:18,360
expectation and the big thing I
want to talk about.

1090
00:46:18,370 --> 00:46:21,960
And I wonder what you think
about this, the kind of growth

1091
00:46:21,970 --> 00:46:25,740
of parent WhatsApp groups,
parents, social media groups and

1092
00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:27,980
how that can become insidious.
Lot of them are lovely.

1093
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:30,130
A lot of them are brilliant.
But it can become inside.

1094
00:46:30,140 --> 00:46:32,590
Tell you what I've I haven't got
it here but I did see something

1095
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,690
recently that that just made me
think, I'm so glad this has not

1096
00:46:35,700 --> 00:46:37,490
happened to me because it is pot
luck.

1097
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,160
Was this teacher again on on a
Facebook group was just just

1098
00:46:41,170 --> 00:46:44,420
saying something along the lines
of a parent has messaged me as

1099
00:46:44,430 --> 00:46:47,280
he emailed me rather and said on
behalf of everyone in the

1100
00:46:47,290 --> 00:46:50,860
WhatsApp group already straight
away we don't like the way

1101
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:52,640
you're doing homework.
It's not effective and you need

1102
00:46:52,650 --> 00:46:54,130
to change.
It was really, like aggressive

1103
00:46:54,140 --> 00:46:57,330
about it and this person was
sort of like, I'm, I'm following

1104
00:46:57,340 --> 00:46:59,010
the school policy.
A soul crushing.

1105
00:46:59,650 --> 00:47:01,100
Yeah.
It just, it just like completely

1106
00:47:01,110 --> 00:47:03,880
ruined that day and and and I
wouldn't be surprised if that's

1107
00:47:03,890 --> 00:47:05,630
the kind of person that six
months down the line that

1108
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:06,740
happens one more time, they'll
quit.

1109
00:47:06,750 --> 00:47:09,100
Yeah, because it's horrible.
And and like you said, it's

1110
00:47:09,110 --> 00:47:10,660
potluck.
And the way teaching is,

1111
00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:13,300
especially in a primary school,
if you happen to this.

1112
00:47:13,310 --> 00:47:16,140
We're in October, by the way.
So she's got that class until

1113
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:18,710
next July, right?
So she's got that relationship

1114
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:21,220
with their parents for 10 months
of the year.

1115
00:47:21,310 --> 00:47:24,730
And if it sets off on that foot,
it's not going to improve, It's

1116
00:47:24,740 --> 00:47:27,170
going to whittle away at you.
You're gonna feel like you're

1117
00:47:27,180 --> 00:47:30,310
being judged every time because
it doesn't matter if you've seen

1118
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:31,790
it or not.
You know you've been discussed

1119
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,590
in the WhatsApp group
negatively, apparently by a

1120
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,100
whole group of people.
And you know what?

1121
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,540
People do their jobs badly
sometimes, and I don't want to

1122
00:47:39,550 --> 00:47:40,890
take away and say we're all
perfect.

1123
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:43,570
That's not the point that I
think the wider point here is

1124
00:47:44,060 --> 00:47:47,650
there's no trust anymore.
We're we're demonised by the

1125
00:47:47,660 --> 00:47:50,570
media that does trickle down to
just the everyday parent in your

1126
00:47:50,580 --> 00:47:52,690
school.
And sometimes we're just treated

1127
00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:55,600
really badly and it's not
acceptable, I'd say, of the

1128
00:47:55,610 --> 00:47:57,530
very, very, very few experiences
I've had.

1129
00:47:57,540 --> 00:48:00,970
And I have been very lucky over
the years of negative, you know,

1130
00:48:00,980 --> 00:48:04,110
interactions with parents.
It has always boiled down to

1131
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,070
them basically just looking at
me like I'm just not good enough

1132
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,760
to do that.
I'm disagreeing with something

1133
00:48:08,770 --> 00:48:11,190
that I've done professionally,
which I've wholeheartedly still

1134
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:12,750
believe in.
And they're like, no, don't do

1135
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:13,220
that.
You're wrong.

1136
00:48:13,230 --> 00:48:14,390
Because that's just stupid.
That's.

1137
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:15,910
Because it's my child involved,
actually.

1138
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,310
Actually, my child told me this
and you're wrong and it's like,

1139
00:48:18,380 --> 00:48:21,210
well, you know, you could do
which it used to be the norm.

1140
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,310
Trust me.
And I'll tell you what your

1141
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,810
child because I'm an adult and I
saw it and I've taught thousands

1142
00:48:26,820 --> 00:48:29,290
of children.
I know you've raised one or two,

1143
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,250
but I have worked and taught
with thousands of children for

1144
00:48:32,260 --> 00:48:33,150
so much.
Time.

1145
00:48:33,380 --> 00:48:35,330
Give me a bit of trust.
It's such a good point because

1146
00:48:35,340 --> 00:48:37,840
we are at the point now where we
are in the thousands.

1147
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:42,960
Don't like And again, not to go
all I've had a kid, now we've

1148
00:48:42,970 --> 00:48:46,400
Rory, it's my child.
Obviously special.

1149
00:48:46,510 --> 00:48:49,420
He is special to me.
But I think what overrides that

1150
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:52,730
massively when he goes to school
will be if he gets into trouble.

1151
00:48:52,740 --> 00:48:54,660
Has an altercation with a with a
teacher.

1152
00:48:54,890 --> 00:48:57,620
In that moment with the teacher,
the teacher gets the utmost

1153
00:48:57,630 --> 00:48:59,440
respect and belief straight
away.

1154
00:48:59,500 --> 00:49:02,340
Yeah blanket.
If for whatever reason

1155
00:49:02,350 --> 00:49:05,040
potentially maybe like you said,
a teacher has not done their job

1156
00:49:05,050 --> 00:49:08,160
properly and is maybe picking on
him, which is rare and I will

1157
00:49:08,170 --> 00:49:09,880
not believe it and I'll have to
be proven.

1158
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:13,610
Otherwise then we can go home
and I can talk to Rory about it

1159
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,390
and we can go about what we need
to go about.

1160
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,230
But in the motional, yeah,
professionally.

1161
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:23,070
But in the moment to undermine a
professional because and again I

1162
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,350
think it comes down a lot to an
emotional response from parents

1163
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,430
sometimes and I think again as a
teacher on the other end of

1164
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,270
maybe when a parents annoyed at
something.

1165
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,670
You have to just kind of be very
matter of fact very much say

1166
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,670
this is what happened and This
is why it happened, and then

1167
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,790
hope to kind of disarm their
emotional response.

1168
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,080
Hard.
And it's really hard.

1169
00:49:42,090 --> 00:49:45,570
But we want them to come away
from my child's upset.

1170
00:49:45,580 --> 00:49:47,690
That's the worst thing that
could possibly happen, and it's

1171
00:49:47,700 --> 00:49:51,130
because of you.
Because have you upset a child

1172
00:49:51,140 --> 00:49:52,490
before?
Yeah, I'm sure you have.

1173
00:49:52,500 --> 00:49:54,130
I have as well.
Of course I have, because it's

1174
00:49:54,140 --> 00:49:57,170
part of my job sometimes to
remind children that they're not

1175
00:49:57,180 --> 00:49:59,650
doing the right thing.
And children don't like to hear

1176
00:49:59,660 --> 00:50:01,290
that.
And they can get upset about it,

1177
00:50:01,300 --> 00:50:02,990
or they can be upset about
something else.

1178
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:04,430
I might have done it
accidentally.

1179
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,710
I might have.
You know, when I'm handing

1180
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:09,790
something out or giving out
jobs, maybe I just forgot to

1181
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,070
give that child a job for a few
weeks and they feel left out.

1182
00:50:12,780 --> 00:50:14,250
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to do it.

1183
00:50:14,300 --> 00:50:15,790
I'm very sorry you felt that
way.

1184
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,740
We can fix it.
But if a parent comes in all

1185
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:20,070
guns blazing, you never pick my
kid for this or that.

1186
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,680
It's going to eat away at you
and you're gonna end up

1187
00:50:23,690 --> 00:50:26,810
thinking, OK, you do know, don't
you, that I literally planned

1188
00:50:26,820 --> 00:50:29,660
for four hours at the weekend, a
week of science lessons for your

1189
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:31,290
child to have a really engaging
experience.

1190
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,450
And I could have just not done
that and we could have just been

1191
00:50:33,460 --> 00:50:36,010
copying things all week.
But I really value your child's

1192
00:50:36,020 --> 00:50:38,150
time and I'm professional, and
this is the only interaction

1193
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:38,990
we're.
Gonna have this, the only

1194
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,440
interaction.
We gonna have to say thank you

1195
00:50:40,450 --> 00:50:42,260
for that.
And by the way, actually, why

1196
00:50:42,270 --> 00:50:44,310
should I bother?
And then and then that is just

1197
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,490
another thing on the list.
Why teachers will quit.

1198
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,880
They don't feel trusted anymore.
Why would you bother?

1199
00:50:51,300 --> 00:50:52,210
Nice moving on.
Then.

1200
00:50:52,220 --> 00:50:56,960
Number three, third on our list
is pay, pay and funding.

1201
00:50:56,970 --> 00:50:59,040
We've caught because we wanted
to separate those ideas a little

1202
00:50:59,050 --> 00:50:59,380
bit.
More.

1203
00:50:59,390 --> 00:51:03,830
And I think there is that issue
sometimes of like teachers just

1204
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,260
want something in their back
pocket.

1205
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:08,650
No, we want funding from the
government to pay our pockets

1206
00:51:08,660 --> 00:51:11,680
because we want to live,
obviously, but we also literally

1207
00:51:11,690 --> 00:51:14,130
save our own eyes what happens?
And I think, hey, maybe you

1208
00:51:14,140 --> 00:51:16,700
could address this, because I
think a lot of people will be

1209
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:20,460
looking at this thinking three,
I have the impression from the

1210
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:22,740
media, from the culture.
This is all you care about?

1211
00:51:22,810 --> 00:51:24,380
Yeah, of course.
You know what?

1212
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:25,850
Why is it?
Why is it 3?

1213
00:51:25,860 --> 00:51:28,240
But why is it important?
OK, right, It's three.

1214
00:51:28,290 --> 00:51:30,340
It's hard to say why it's three
about just saying the other.

1215
00:51:30,350 --> 00:51:33,280
Two, no that.
But but what I mean is, do we

1216
00:51:33,350 --> 00:51:35,900
essentially, can you explain to
people why we don't just care

1217
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:37,720
about getting paid?
OK, I'm gonna say something

1218
00:51:37,730 --> 00:51:41,320
first, right?
I think there is this bizarre

1219
00:51:41,370 --> 00:51:45,300
opinion, Maybe this goes back to
culture a little bit, that

1220
00:51:45,630 --> 00:51:49,500
teachers should be totally
selfless and only do things for

1221
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:52,220
the kids.
So far it's got, it's got so bad

1222
00:51:52,330 --> 00:51:55,320
that it's like you shouldn't
even consider what you're paid

1223
00:51:55,330 --> 00:51:57,080
anymore.
It's like, what are you talking

1224
00:51:57,090 --> 00:51:58,980
about?
Have you met a human being

1225
00:51:58,990 --> 00:52:00,880
that's an adult?
Like, of course we care about

1226
00:52:00,890 --> 00:52:03,500
what we're paid for.
I didn't go to uni for three

1227
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:07,860
years and get in 30-40 grand of
debt genuinely to to come out

1228
00:52:07,870 --> 00:52:11,760
with a job that I could have got
very, very easily without

1229
00:52:11,770 --> 00:52:13,760
getting free into debt.
I wanted to be, you know,

1230
00:52:13,770 --> 00:52:15,860
reimbursed with that.
Obviously that was part of it.

1231
00:52:15,870 --> 00:52:17,320
I also did it because I loved
teaching.

1232
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:20,220
But so just there's there's a
little bit of us and there

1233
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:21,680
should be.
It's normal.

1234
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:24,180
You have to be a little bit
selfish sometimes and think,

1235
00:52:24,250 --> 00:52:25,520
well, I do want to get paid for
this.

1236
00:52:25,530 --> 00:52:29,420
I do want a certain lifestyle in
return for the 50 hours a week

1237
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:31,540
of my time that I trade for
this.

1238
00:52:31,630 --> 00:52:36,050
And and and you're qualified in
it like we we have to place some

1239
00:52:36,060 --> 00:52:39,160
value on the process of becoming
qualified in something.

1240
00:52:39,230 --> 00:52:40,760
Yeah.
If we don't then what's the

1241
00:52:40,770 --> 00:52:42,500
point?
Like I feel that's what's

1242
00:52:42,510 --> 00:52:44,340
happening.
It's being eroded and we want to

1243
00:52:44,350 --> 00:52:47,340
be paying fairly.
And I think we've, we've talked

1244
00:52:47,350 --> 00:52:50,060
a lot on the podcast about this
before, about how just

1245
00:52:50,070 --> 00:52:53,020
maintaining pay over the last 13
years has been a battle and it

1246
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:55,630
hasn't happened.
And quality of life for teachers

1247
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,100
has eroded.
And I think the point you wanted

1248
00:52:58,110 --> 00:53:02,340
to make was about how OK, it's
not a bad wage though.

1249
00:53:02,350 --> 00:53:03,670
What would you say to us?
Yeah, exactly.

1250
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,190
And it's not.
And I know again, I'll make that

1251
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,320
point, It's not a bad wage.
You know, teachers, if you're at

1252
00:53:07,330 --> 00:53:09,590
the top of the scale, it's not
that great at the beginning.

1253
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,590
To be honest, it's not.
It's no better than a lot of

1254
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,270
entry level jobs, but it's not
bad.

1255
00:53:14,340 --> 00:53:15,930
It's not terrible.
You're gonna be OK.

1256
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,970
But comparatively, and this is
the thing I think that would

1257
00:53:18,980 --> 00:53:21,210
make a lot of people quit,
especially more savvy people

1258
00:53:21,220 --> 00:53:23,830
like younger people now who can
just be like, hang on a minute,

1259
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:27,210
My parents who did this same job
had an unbelievably different

1260
00:53:27,220 --> 00:53:29,450
lifestyle to me.
Why on earth should I trade in

1261
00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:32,310
university fees or even higher?
I got more debt than them.

1262
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,670
And I don't get paid anything
near as much as they did.

1263
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,130
Comparatively, Why should I?
I'm going to quit and go get

1264
00:53:37,140 --> 00:53:39,390
another job that pays more.
And some people be like, yeah,

1265
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,470
good for you.
And I hate it when they do that

1266
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,580
because, OK, everyone do it.
Then we'll see what that

1267
00:53:43,590 --> 00:53:45,680
person's opinion is.
Someone in my family always says

1268
00:53:45,690 --> 00:53:48,290
that, yeah, well, you get
another job, then I tell you

1269
00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:49,840
what, let's get everyone to do
that then.

1270
00:53:49,850 --> 00:53:52,080
And I'm going to ask you what
your opinion is on the state

1271
00:53:52,090 --> 00:53:53,990
when there's zero teachers,
because they all got.

1272
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,330
Because the problem is.
They're already doing it.

1273
00:53:57,580 --> 00:53:59,550
They're doing it now.
And we have vacancies.

1274
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:01,530
People have quit.
People are doing that.

1275
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:02,950
Yeah.
And look at the problem it's

1276
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:04,870
causing.
Look at the percentage of time

1277
00:54:04,940 --> 00:54:06,420
not taught by specialist
teachers anymore.

1278
00:54:06,430 --> 00:54:07,840
Look at the vacancies that are
growing.

1279
00:54:07,850 --> 00:54:09,970
Yeah, something linked to that.
And I had the discussion with my

1280
00:54:09,980 --> 00:54:11,520
friends.
One of my friends is a train

1281
00:54:11,530 --> 00:54:14,350
driver.
You know, he drives trains and

1282
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,370
he is on far more money than I
am.

1283
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:17,150
OK.
And.

1284
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,650
And that's a choice.
Well, you chose that career.

1285
00:54:19,780 --> 00:54:22,110
Excellent.
And I read an article.

1286
00:54:22,500 --> 00:54:25,940
An article came out today and it
was essentially it was one of

1287
00:54:25,950 --> 00:54:27,850
those articles.
Where the underlining, the

1288
00:54:27,860 --> 00:54:31,080
underlying tone was don't moan
train drivers.

1289
00:54:31,090 --> 00:54:34,250
Yeah, everyone says that it was.
It was like, you know, here's

1290
00:54:34,260 --> 00:54:36,650
what a train driver gets
compared to a nurse and a

1291
00:54:36,660 --> 00:54:38,290
teacher.
And it was just meant to be like

1292
00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:40,390
an information.
But you could tell the undertone

1293
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,620
was Can you believe these guys
moan about striking and stuff.

1294
00:54:43,630 --> 00:54:46,660
And it's the same thing you say
if your pay is frozen, your

1295
00:54:46,670 --> 00:54:48,610
quality of life goes down no
matter where you're at and

1296
00:54:48,620 --> 00:54:50,150
you're allowed to fight against
that.

1297
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,250
Yeah, but the point was of the
article and it literally named

1298
00:54:53,260 --> 00:54:55,960
nurses and teachers because
train drivers were getting

1299
00:54:55,970 --> 00:54:58,720
something like in the 60s.
Thousands of pounds a year,

1300
00:54:58,830 --> 00:55:01,550
which is way above UPS 3, which
is right at the top, which is

1301
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,260
like 48 grand.
Yeah it it's like way above PS3

1302
00:55:04,270 --> 00:55:06,480
for any non teacher listeners is
the top of the pay scale for

1303
00:55:06,490 --> 00:55:08,030
teachers.
It's the highest amount you can

1304
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,980
be paid as a teacher after using
10 at least 10 years of

1305
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:13,960
teaching.
So the train drivers are on

1306
00:55:13,970 --> 00:55:17,940
��60,000 already, like a good 15K
above and they get paid over

1307
00:55:17,950 --> 00:55:21,540
time, right?
So it's huge golf there and the

1308
00:55:21,550 --> 00:55:23,900
whole point of the article was
how it's very laid back.

1309
00:55:23,970 --> 00:55:26,580
And one guy spoke who was a
train driver.

1310
00:55:26,590 --> 00:55:29,310
Anonymously, of course.
But my name is like, yeah, I get

1311
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,170
paid to look at our window.
Yeah I know I've got a

1312
00:55:31,180 --> 00:55:34,090
concentrate but I leave work and
then it's done and if I work any

1313
00:55:34,100 --> 00:55:36,030
extra it's overtime when I get
paid for it.

1314
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:38,350
Yeah.
And and the underlying tone was

1315
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,910
both how cushty it is don't moan
about it but also nurses and

1316
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,330
teachers also why are you
moaning?

1317
00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:44,510
You could just go and get this
job.

1318
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,430
This is a lovely student really
cool job.

1319
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:48,840
And and I was talking to my
friends about it and one of my

1320
00:55:48,850 --> 00:55:52,070
friends first response, a
different friend was saying well

1321
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,530
it looks like you chose the
right career to the train

1322
00:55:54,540 --> 00:55:55,850
driver.
Well done.

1323
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,110
And I was like, yeah, but the
tone is just that.

1324
00:55:59,410 --> 00:56:00,820
You know, I would just change
them.

1325
00:56:00,870 --> 00:56:01,880
Yeah.
Just change then.

1326
00:56:01,890 --> 00:56:04,740
And that's why people are
quitting because they can just

1327
00:56:04,750 --> 00:56:05,680
change.
Yeah.

1328
00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:08,930
Like, yeah, People are waking up
to it and be like, yeah, OK, OK

1329
00:56:08,940 --> 00:56:11,500
then go on then.
Good luck with the career.

1330
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:13,510
Yeah, cuz I'm going now.
So government.

1331
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:14,740
Yeah, just check.
Yeah.

1332
00:56:14,750 --> 00:56:16,290
It's just such a stupid.
They are doing.

1333
00:56:16,300 --> 00:56:18,900
Isn't it just changing?
OK, all right, look what's

1334
00:56:18,910 --> 00:56:20,580
happening.
Because we are and I suppose

1335
00:56:20,590 --> 00:56:23,280
linked to pay, then can you talk
briefly, I suppose, about why?

1336
00:56:23,570 --> 00:56:26,480
But why is funding so pay making
teachers quit?

1337
00:56:26,490 --> 00:56:28,690
Yeah, it makes sense because you
can go somewhere else to get

1338
00:56:28,700 --> 00:56:29,850
more money.
But why?

1339
00:56:29,980 --> 00:56:32,580
Funding, making people funding
is the wider issue in my opinion

1340
00:56:32,590 --> 00:56:35,100
and in terms of why teachers are
quitting because that is that is

1341
00:56:35,110 --> 00:56:38,020
more of an impact on everyday
life at work.

1342
00:56:38,090 --> 00:56:40,720
Pay is an impact on your
personal life because it's your

1343
00:56:40,730 --> 00:56:44,120
money.
But funding affects things like

1344
00:56:44,170 --> 00:56:46,880
the support that you received in
school and that support could be

1345
00:56:46,890 --> 00:56:49,700
anything from another adult in
your classroom to just you know,

1346
00:56:49,710 --> 00:56:53,120
resources or whatever is needed
for a child or a group of

1347
00:56:53,130 --> 00:56:55,950
children in your class.
So when that gets whittled and

1348
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,960
whittled away and away and away
and away and at the same time

1349
00:56:59,010 --> 00:57:02,900
class size is is increasing.
But going back to that, yeah, it

1350
00:57:02,910 --> 00:57:05,800
becomes very stressful.
And if your life is stressful

1351
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,060
last and said right at the start
of the conversation, what's the

1352
00:57:08,070 --> 00:57:10,290
most likely thing that's gonna
happen at the end of that you're

1353
00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:12,300
gonna quit.
Because if it is, if it's going

1354
00:57:12,310 --> 00:57:13,760
to blow you've got you've got to
get out of there.

1355
00:57:13,770 --> 00:57:15,600
Everything gets to a point, a
boiling point.

1356
00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:18,240
And if your life is getting more
and more stressful because the

1357
00:57:18,250 --> 00:57:22,670
government aren't funding things
to make your job, like make you

1358
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:25,180
be able to do your job properly,
you're gonna get stressed.

1359
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:28,160
It kind of goes back to the
first the hook, the thing I read

1360
00:57:28,170 --> 00:57:30,810
to you, which is you just got to
not care.

1361
00:57:30,980 --> 00:57:33,080
If you want to get through this
job now you have to not care,

1362
00:57:33,090 --> 00:57:35,270
because if you care about the
fact that your children with

1363
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,090
special educational needs and
your class are not getting the

1364
00:57:38,100 --> 00:57:41,010
provision, they should purely
because there's no funding

1365
00:57:41,020 --> 00:57:42,130
anymore.
If you care about that, it's

1366
00:57:42,140 --> 00:57:44,200
going to eat you away.
So you just got to not care.

1367
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,550
And it's a horrible analogy, but
it does make a point of is that

1368
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,670
what we want?
Do we want teachers that art

1369
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,330
don't care?
Because that's that's why it's

1370
00:57:51,340 --> 00:57:53,910
gonna go exactly, cause everyone
else is gonna quit because it's

1371
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,910
horrible.
Because the type of people who

1372
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,360
get into teaching are the type
of people who just really

1373
00:57:58,370 --> 00:57:59,830
struggled to sit back and watch
that happen.

1374
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:01,410
So evil.
You're going to drive yourself

1375
00:58:01,420 --> 00:58:03,770
into the ground doing what you
can to support them the best you

1376
00:58:03,780 --> 00:58:05,360
can.
Or you become numb.

1377
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,960
And at the point you become
numb, what's the point in

1378
00:58:07,970 --> 00:58:09,590
carrying on teaching?
It's sad.

1379
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,410
Sad.
Down to the last two.

1380
00:58:11,470 --> 00:58:13,210
Yeah.
So I'm sure people are thinking

1381
00:58:13,220 --> 00:58:14,380
at home.
OK, I'm really sorry.

1382
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:15,390
I know this is gonna be so
quick.

1383
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,790
Summary got in 5th place to talk
about Ofsted, 4th place talking

1384
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,890
about culture, 3rd place to talk
about pay and funding.

1385
00:58:20,900 --> 00:58:24,820
So. #2 huge thing we've seen
first-hand, we've experienced

1386
00:58:24,830 --> 00:58:26,260
it, we've seen other people
experience it.

1387
00:58:26,270 --> 00:58:30,450
It can be horrendous is.
And again, we're going to caveat

1388
00:58:30,460 --> 00:58:32,600
this.
We know it's not everyone.

1389
00:58:32,610 --> 00:58:34,860
We know there are fans.
Because I feel bad sometimes

1390
00:58:34,870 --> 00:58:37,740
thinking my friends who are in
this role, yeah, yeah, I don't

1391
00:58:37,750 --> 00:58:39,680
want to hear this and think that
I'm talking about them.

1392
00:58:39,690 --> 00:58:42,600
I'm not.
But it has to be poor

1393
00:58:42,610 --> 00:58:45,740
management.
Poor management is a huge driver

1394
00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:48,920
of people out of the profession,
not only because they become

1395
00:58:48,930 --> 00:58:51,860
stressed through the amount of
through their management.

1396
00:58:52,060 --> 00:58:55,300
From the top down, but also
because they just think to

1397
00:58:55,310 --> 00:58:57,410
themselves, well, I don't want
to do that job, so there's no

1398
00:58:57,420 --> 00:58:59,190
career progression there.
You know, if you can't get past

1399
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,410
me teacher, I don't be in
management.

1400
00:59:00,420 --> 00:59:03,230
It's horrendous.
So Hayden, why is management,

1401
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,660
poor management driving people
out of the professional?

1402
00:59:06,670 --> 00:59:08,680
Firstly, it's super relatable.
This is probably the most

1403
00:59:08,690 --> 00:59:10,910
relatable point.
I think that any profession

1404
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,470
because I think how many friends
have you had in the past where

1405
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:16,630
they've quit a job because the
managers were rubbish and it

1406
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,410
might have just been a part time
job, a temp job or whatever, but

1407
00:59:19,420 --> 00:59:21,110
they've quit because they're
like, yeah, it's horrible

1408
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:22,300
working here.
Bye.

1409
00:59:22,790 --> 00:59:24,950
It's exactly the same in
teaching, and we've already

1410
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,940
explained how stressful this job
can be anyway.

1411
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:29,750
The workload is massive in terms
of the time that you're in that

1412
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,340
building, which we talk about a
lot.

1413
00:59:31,410 --> 00:59:34,880
So if it's not managed well at
the school and it is a skill,

1414
00:59:34,890 --> 00:59:36,520
the end of the day you have to
get qualified.

1415
00:59:36,530 --> 00:59:38,730
You have to have experience in
managing to be a good manager.

1416
00:59:38,740 --> 00:59:40,700
You can't just do it.
Some people might be able to,

1417
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:43,860
but most people can't.
If you have poor managers and

1418
00:59:43,870 --> 00:59:47,330
they make your life misery all
the time, there's only so far

1419
00:59:47,340 --> 00:59:50,370
you're going to go until you,
Eva, quit the job completely or

1420
00:59:50,380 --> 00:59:53,320
you go to another school.
Yeah, and I think.

1421
00:59:53,420 --> 00:59:55,540
What I'd like to do now is kind
of draw back to what I talked

1422
00:59:55,550 --> 01:00:00,420
about Ofsted because I think
poor management where Ofsted

1423
01:00:00,430 --> 01:00:02,440
needs reform.
Clearly, yeah, the reason why

1424
01:00:02,450 --> 01:00:04,720
management comes higher is
because I think management can

1425
01:00:04,730 --> 01:00:07,160
shield you from a lot of the
pressures of Ofsted.

1426
01:00:07,250 --> 01:00:09,840
And I think good managers do
that.

1427
01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:12,530
I think good managers find a way
to say to someone, OK, we

1428
01:00:12,540 --> 01:00:15,380
understand we're in the Ofsted
window, but our approach to this

1429
01:00:15,390 --> 01:00:19,770
is not going to be to sticker
over plaster over the fact we've

1430
01:00:19,780 --> 01:00:21,940
got so many cracks.
Our approach is going to be

1431
01:00:21,950 --> 01:00:23,600
we're going to fix things
properly.

1432
01:00:24,020 --> 01:00:28,050
Manageably for our staff, one
thing at a time without trying

1433
01:00:28,060 --> 01:00:31,490
to do 7 things at once and add
huge stress to the whole

1434
01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:32,540
teaching.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1435
01:00:32,550 --> 01:00:34,030
Yeah.
And and and be able to say to

1436
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,330
him, OK and in the Ofsted come
as management, I'm going to

1437
01:00:37,340 --> 01:00:39,970
explain this.
I'm going to say and it's really

1438
01:00:39,980 --> 01:00:43,070
hard to do because give them
their due management have huge

1439
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,230
pressure like teachers feel
pressure from management.

1440
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,610
Management feel huge pressure
from Ofsted because that's their

1441
01:00:48,620 --> 01:00:49,210
lives.
Absolutely.

1442
01:00:49,260 --> 01:00:51,690
We know what happened with Ruth
Perry and that unfortunate

1443
01:00:51,700 --> 01:00:54,510
incident of the amount of
pressure she was under because

1444
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,980
of an negative Ofsted experience
and and that was not to that

1445
01:00:57,990 --> 01:01:01,880
extreme for all head teachers,
is still hugely, hugely

1446
01:01:01,930 --> 01:01:04,570
impactful on them.
And I can see why that feeds

1447
01:01:04,580 --> 01:01:07,540
down.
But good management will make

1448
01:01:07,550 --> 01:01:11,500
sure that that is a collective
kind of burden.

1449
01:01:11,570 --> 01:01:15,160
And what I mean by that is if a
manager will head tries to take

1450
01:01:15,170 --> 01:01:18,720
on too much of the Ofsted burden
themselves, that's I feel like

1451
01:01:18,730 --> 01:01:21,960
when it trickles down massively.
If a head gets everyone involved

1452
01:01:21,970 --> 01:01:23,440
and says right, this is what
we're at.

1453
01:01:23,530 --> 01:01:26,500
What can we do?
How good communication with your

1454
01:01:26,510 --> 01:01:27,620
staff?
How can we make this more

1455
01:01:27,630 --> 01:01:30,310
manageable for us?
What our plan of action rather

1456
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,910
than knee jerk Ohh God history
doesn't have a chronological

1457
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,140
feature across the curriculum.
Fix that now by the way.

1458
01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:38,630
Ohh by the way and science.
Yeah, this and delegate delegate

1459
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,150
delegate, delegate, delegate.
Our experiences of of negative

1460
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,040
experiences have always been
with that sort of thing, haven't

1461
01:01:43,050 --> 01:01:45,350
they?
It's like just a complete knee

1462
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:46,970
jerk.
Yeah knee jerk reaction.

1463
01:01:46,980 --> 01:01:50,950
And just like disregard for
other human beings time who

1464
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:52,570
happened to be the teachers that
work for you.

1465
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,250
Just ohh your time is nothing to
me.

1466
01:01:54,260 --> 01:01:56,230
We need to get these jobs done.
The jobs are the priority.

1467
01:01:56,300 --> 01:01:57,920
Your time is actually nothing to
me.

1468
01:01:57,970 --> 01:02:00,280
That's the only time I've ever
experienced it negatively in the

1469
01:02:00,290 --> 01:02:01,980
past.
And it's just like it's not cool

1470
01:02:01,990 --> 01:02:03,330
and and surprise surprise, I
quit.

1471
01:02:03,340 --> 01:02:06,650
And so did you.
And and so did so thousands of

1472
01:02:06,660 --> 01:02:08,420
other teachers in these
positions, they quit.

1473
01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:10,200
That's the big, that's the big
thing for me.

1474
01:02:10,210 --> 01:02:13,830
And I think it's linked to that
as well, the whole disregard for

1475
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,820
your time.
OK, we we've been in a

1476
01:02:15,830 --> 01:02:19,280
management system previously
where there was absolutely no

1477
01:02:19,290 --> 01:02:21,500
regard for teachers and I think
it was almost a badge for honour

1478
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:23,960
how much they got there, how
hard they got their staff to

1479
01:02:23,970 --> 01:02:28,020
work and and their well-being
was not remotely come into play.

1480
01:02:28,110 --> 01:02:30,680
All that eventually happened was
there was a well-being

1481
01:02:30,690 --> 01:02:32,640
questionnaire every now and then
so that they could say to off

1482
01:02:32,650 --> 01:02:35,660
said well we asked them and we
did a yoga class.

1483
01:02:35,670 --> 01:02:37,680
That was cool, but we still
expected.

1484
01:02:37,690 --> 01:02:39,760
Them to No one dared say
anything bad on it because

1485
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:42,670
because then you know what
happened is gonna link in nicely

1486
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:43,860
with my second point of
management.

1487
01:02:43,930 --> 01:02:47,080
You going to bully people out?
Yeah, management happens a lot

1488
01:02:47,090 --> 01:02:48,850
in teaching.
Actively bully people out.

1489
01:02:48,860 --> 01:02:52,960
I saw someone say the other day
and they they wish it was easier

1490
01:02:53,010 --> 01:02:56,400
for management in the school,
for SLT in a school, to openly

1491
01:02:56,410 --> 01:02:59,980
say you don't fit my idea of the
school.

1492
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,600
Yeah, I'll help you look for a
different school.

1493
01:03:03,790 --> 01:03:06,500
But having that dialogue open, I
was triggered, OK.

1494
01:03:06,510 --> 01:03:08,510
I was triggered, isn't it?
I was triggered immediately

1495
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,610
because I thought, no, because
this is the whole point you're

1496
01:03:11,620 --> 01:03:15,410
going into the structure of.
It's my school, my way, rather

1497
01:03:15,420 --> 01:03:16,770
than this is what I've got to
work with.

1498
01:03:16,780 --> 01:03:18,320
These are the amazing staff I've
got.

1499
01:03:18,370 --> 01:03:20,600
They're going to mould the
school and I'm going to manage

1500
01:03:20,610 --> 01:03:21,260
them.
Yeah.

1501
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:23,760
So I prefer OK, I've got so, so
fair play.

1502
01:03:23,770 --> 01:03:26,420
This person thinks different.
They're led by the head

1503
01:03:26,570 --> 01:03:27,620
whatever.
OK.

1504
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:30,620
But then I suppose my point
there was I guess I understand

1505
01:03:30,630 --> 01:03:33,920
what he's saying because the
other option for those kind of

1506
01:03:33,930 --> 01:03:36,620
head teachers who aren't going
to budge, who aren't going to do

1507
01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:39,320
what I think is the best thing
to do, those head teachers who

1508
01:03:39,330 --> 01:03:41,180
are going to be right.
It's my way of the highway.

1509
01:03:41,250 --> 01:03:43,380
It would be better for them to
say it from the off and help

1510
01:03:43,390 --> 01:03:46,160
people.
Because what happens otherwise

1511
01:03:46,220 --> 01:03:49,930
is what we've seen, which is
where expensive staff, staff

1512
01:03:49,940 --> 01:03:53,420
that don't fit don't look right,
staff that do the things the way

1513
01:03:53,430 --> 01:03:55,570
you want to do.
It well, staff aren't very good.

1514
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,290
Staff aren't very good for sure,
But I I think I'm especially

1515
01:03:58,300 --> 01:04:00,950
talking about now why people are
quitting.

1516
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,730
So yeah, of course teachers who
listen, teachers who get into

1517
01:04:04,740 --> 01:04:07,480
teaching and it's not for them
and they're not the best teacher

1518
01:04:07,490 --> 01:04:09,270
in the world.
Of course they're probably going

1519
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,530
to quit at some point and go and
find something else to do.

1520
01:04:11,580 --> 01:04:15,270
But explicitly talking about
good teachers now who just don't

1521
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,330
fit the mould, who could get
excellent results.

1522
01:04:17,340 --> 01:04:19,300
But no matter what they do, it's
always something wrong with it.

1523
01:04:19,310 --> 01:04:22,190
Because the idea is it's coming
from the top down, it's coming

1524
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:24,040
from management.
And This is why a lot of

1525
01:04:24,050 --> 01:04:26,910
teachers are quitting and the
advice is always to find a

1526
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:28,820
different score, isn't it?
But This is why a lot of

1527
01:04:28,830 --> 01:04:31,280
teachers are quitting is because
they feel like they're being

1528
01:04:31,290 --> 01:04:33,440
bullied out from their.
Own boss.

1529
01:04:33,450 --> 01:04:34,570
Yeah.
And that's not a nice feeling.

1530
01:04:34,580 --> 01:04:35,870
You put your heart and soul into
the job.

1531
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:37,400
Exactly.
And if they're thinking that the

1532
01:04:37,410 --> 01:04:39,660
chances of you going away and
thinking it's just that place

1533
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:42,290
and being really reflective
rather than being like well I'm

1534
01:04:42,300 --> 01:04:43,830
clearly just terrible at this
job then I'm going to quit

1535
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,130
forever.
He's most people are going over

1536
01:04:46,140 --> 01:04:48,220
the emotional one and be like
well if the people I work with

1537
01:04:48,230 --> 01:04:50,800
closely think I'm rubbish at
this then obviously then I'm

1538
01:04:50,810 --> 01:04:53,030
terrible you know and they will
quit rather than I think that's

1539
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,110
when I understood the guy's
because again again here in this

1540
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,510
thread he then at the end said
it happened to me I was bullied

1541
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:01,950
out of a place I would rather
the head have said to me at the

1542
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,970
start you don't fit what I'm
going for yeah I'll help you.

1543
01:05:04,980 --> 01:05:06,390
But I can't.
I've actually had that

1544
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,880
conversation with someone before
as well, sort of basically turn

1545
01:05:08,890 --> 01:05:10,450
around.
To me it was like, OK, what

1546
01:05:10,460 --> 01:05:12,430
would you do then?
You've got, you've got, you've

1547
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,210
employed someone, they're just
not doing their job properly.

1548
01:05:14,220 --> 01:05:16,190
They are just performing
terribly, That choice.

1549
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:17,380
They're just not doing their
job.

1550
01:05:17,390 --> 01:05:19,310
Again, different to what I'm
saying because this person was

1551
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:20,750
doing.
Well, no, of course, of course,

1552
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:22,750
But you're I like your.
Point I'm giving, all I'm doing

1553
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,070
is setting up an analogies, just
just to show that.

1554
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,530
We also well protected and it is
really good, but it so other

1555
01:05:28,540 --> 01:05:31,440
people's points to me have been
OK, so well protected that when

1556
01:05:31,450 --> 01:05:34,900
we do genuinely have someone who
is not doing their job properly,

1557
01:05:34,940 --> 01:05:38,190
there's no way of getting rid of
them other than this system

1558
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:41,430
which is seen as bullying.
We've talked before about how

1559
01:05:41,470 --> 01:05:45,240
support plans now have become so
demonised that they're never a

1560
01:05:45,250 --> 01:05:46,550
good thing.
Now if anyone's on a support

1561
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,550
plan, it's immediately like,
cool, I'm being bullied out.

1562
01:05:48,660 --> 01:05:50,730
It's not even real anymore.
Support plans aren't even for

1563
01:05:50,740 --> 01:05:51,950
support.
It's just that, oh, that's the

1564
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,090
bully tactic now.
That's what we used to get rid

1565
01:05:54,100 --> 01:05:56,110
of staff.
Now, I think it's important to

1566
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,990
do what you're doing, which is
to point out to people that

1567
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,240
there are obviously going to be
a percentage of the of the

1568
01:06:02,250 --> 01:06:05,920
population, of the people who
teach, who need support.

1569
01:06:05,970 --> 01:06:09,660
Yeah, like, of course there is.
I need support in certain things

1570
01:06:09,790 --> 01:06:11,700
like and I'll go out and seek
it.

1571
01:06:11,850 --> 01:06:15,430
No, of course not.
You need support in modesty

1572
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,090
power.
You're in a support plan for

1573
01:06:17,100 --> 01:06:19,860
being modest.
But yeah, I think management in

1574
01:06:19,870 --> 01:06:23,320
general, that is always when I
ask people or I see people who

1575
01:06:23,330 --> 01:06:25,680
have left the profession, yeah,
they will cite management a lot

1576
01:06:25,690 --> 01:06:28,770
of the time.
And some of my friends have left

1577
01:06:28,780 --> 01:06:30,530
the profession.
People I've worked with, people

1578
01:06:30,540 --> 01:06:33,770
I think were fantastic at their
job, have felt the need to just

1579
01:06:33,780 --> 01:06:37,740
quit early or get out be
directly because of the way they

1580
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:39,310
were.
Treated poor management, making

1581
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:40,900
them feel terrible and they're
out.

1582
01:06:40,940 --> 01:06:42,660
And you know what good
management can do?

1583
01:06:42,780 --> 01:06:44,430
Solve a lot of the retention
problem.

1584
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:46,890
Good management can swap someone
and he joined a different

1585
01:06:46,900 --> 01:06:48,280
school.
I'd say to you right now if

1586
01:06:48,290 --> 01:06:50,080
you're thinking I'm gonna be one
of these statistics these guys

1587
01:06:50,090 --> 01:06:52,620
are talking about, because gosh,
my management is this.

1588
01:06:52,630 --> 01:06:55,840
And also, the culture is that
switching school can change a

1589
01:06:55,850 --> 01:06:57,350
lot of.
These it really cause there are

1590
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,980
some amazing managers out there.
Let's wrap this up with our

1591
01:06:59,990 --> 01:07:02,660
number one, number one point,
which you probably guessed it

1592
01:07:02,670 --> 01:07:05,230
because we talk about it a lot
and I mentioned it earlier, it's

1593
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,540
workload.
The number one reason and this

1594
01:07:07,550 --> 01:07:09,900
is also cited in some of the
data sources we're reading

1595
01:07:09,910 --> 01:07:13,340
earlier that teachers are
leaving this job is because of

1596
01:07:13,470 --> 01:07:15,640
the workload.
It's too much work.

1597
01:07:15,810 --> 01:07:19,170
So what we mean by this, Dylan?
What what situation are we in

1598
01:07:19,180 --> 01:07:23,050
where workload could be causing
people to quit the job that they

1599
01:07:23,060 --> 01:07:24,670
knew they were getting into,
right?

1600
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:28,020
Yeah.
I think the biggest problem we

1601
01:07:28,030 --> 01:07:33,310
have as a profession is the
setup that we currently have,

1602
01:07:33,380 --> 01:07:37,870
which is that delivering
lessons, literally being with

1603
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:41,440
the children and and delivering
lessons and seeing them in the

1604
01:07:41,450 --> 01:07:44,530
morning and seeing them out in
the afternoon, OK, is

1605
01:07:44,540 --> 01:07:48,120
essentially we've talked about
this before, is pretty much a

1606
01:07:48,130 --> 01:07:50,320
full time.
Job in itself, yeah.

1607
01:07:50,330 --> 01:07:53,640
That bit of the delivering, the
teacher doing the teaching.

1608
01:07:53,850 --> 01:07:57,680
And one of the hugest problems
we have as a profession is you

1609
01:07:57,690 --> 01:08:02,340
could walk into one school and
spend time there, do all the

1610
01:08:02,350 --> 01:08:04,900
expectations of what's expected
of you from the top down and

1611
01:08:04,910 --> 01:08:07,800
what you wanted to do.
Walk into a school down the road

1612
01:08:07,870 --> 01:08:12,480
and do another term at that
school and have two completely

1613
01:08:12,550 --> 01:08:14,440
different experiences on
workload.

1614
01:08:14,590 --> 01:08:17,370
And I want you to hey, I want
you to expand on this, because

1615
01:08:17,500 --> 01:08:21,649
my point here is the problem of
workload in teaching is that it

1616
01:08:21,660 --> 01:08:25,020
is so open-ended.
Yeah, it is unreal.

1617
01:08:25,029 --> 01:08:26,830
Why is that a problem?
Why is that making people quit?

1618
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:28,390
Well, there's a lot of potluck,
isn't there?

1619
01:08:28,399 --> 01:08:31,750
There are, there is so much
potluck in the job and that even

1620
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,100
goes back to all four.
Well, mainly the last point I

1621
01:08:34,109 --> 01:08:36,910
suppose is pot luck really if
you join a school and they

1622
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,649
happen to actually be really
good at managing you and helping

1623
01:08:39,660 --> 01:08:42,080
your workload.
But I mean, you made this

1624
01:08:42,090 --> 01:08:43,500
analogy earlier.
I was going to steal it from You

1625
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:47,640
can jump in if you want, but it
it's potluck as to the makeup of

1626
01:08:47,649 --> 01:08:49,540
your class.
There's a few points to this.

1627
01:08:49,550 --> 01:08:53,069
Firstly, the size, if you go
around the country, right,

1628
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,290
they're they're different part.
You shocked me of this fact

1629
01:08:55,300 --> 01:08:58,819
years ago that I just thought
every class ever in England had

1630
01:08:58,830 --> 01:09:01,310
a class size in in the UK really
had a class size of 32.

1631
01:09:01,319 --> 01:09:04,060
Yeah, I just thought that was
bang on standard primary school

1632
01:09:04,069 --> 01:09:08,210
32 and you were like no, average
is like was like 28/26/26 was

1633
01:09:08,220 --> 01:09:10,279
like what do you mean the
average, average, average.

1634
01:09:10,290 --> 01:09:12,859
So people, some people have
class sizes smaller than that.

1635
01:09:12,870 --> 01:09:15,399
And then I was like, OK, just
private schools and I don't

1636
01:09:15,410 --> 01:09:18,180
know, but it wasn't even that.
So firstly, the class size.

1637
01:09:18,569 --> 01:09:20,279
Obviously that affects your
workload.

1638
01:09:20,420 --> 01:09:22,870
And I've personally experienced
that even this year compared to

1639
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:24,109
last year.
I've got, I'm teaching very

1640
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:26,130
different groups of children and
I just have different class

1641
01:09:26,140 --> 01:09:27,830
sizes.
So you dive into that a bit

1642
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:29,930
because you're I suppose your
class size is the same.

1643
01:09:29,939 --> 01:09:33,460
But again, even within the same
school workload can be different

1644
01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:36,569
because you might set for
English and maths, there might

1645
01:09:36,580 --> 01:09:38,220
be different number of people in
the classes.

1646
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:41,510
So in one year group, for
example in our year group I have

1647
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:45,819
a class size of 18 for maths and
opposite there's a class size of

1648
01:09:45,830 --> 01:09:47,630
32.
Now we can go into why that

1649
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,880
happens, because of support and
because of, you know, adult

1650
01:09:49,890 --> 01:09:52,700
ratios, because of help, blah
blah blah blah blah.

1651
01:09:52,710 --> 01:09:56,360
But at the end of the day, hmm,
I have 18 maths books to mark,

1652
01:09:56,370 --> 01:09:57,620
yeah?
And the teacher over the way has

1653
01:09:57,630 --> 01:10:00,180
32 maths books to mark every
single day.

1654
01:10:00,190 --> 01:10:01,780
Yeah.
And that's just potluck and and

1655
01:10:01,790 --> 01:10:03,770
and what about writing?
Exactly, yeah.

1656
01:10:03,780 --> 01:10:06,300
So my situation right now, and
this is no no disrespect to our

1657
01:10:06,310 --> 01:10:08,780
current school whatsoever, it's
just an interesting fact about

1658
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:10,440
how it changes every year and
it's potluck.

1659
01:10:10,530 --> 01:10:13,080
Last year I had 13 children in
my maths set.

1660
01:10:13,740 --> 01:10:18,910
OK, and I had 24 in my English
set, so smaller groups than

1661
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:21,730
average I suppose.
This year I have 32 in maths, 32

1662
01:10:21,740 --> 01:10:24,090
in English and what are you
noticing difference?

1663
01:10:24,100 --> 01:10:26,530
Then I'm just.
I'm just at work later marking I

1664
01:10:26,540 --> 01:10:29,110
message The other day didn't.
It was like 5:30, quarter to

1665
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:32,180
six, and I was like, brilliant.
I've barely, barely scratched

1666
01:10:32,190 --> 01:10:34,610
the surface, right, Because that
day I happened to just have

1667
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:36,430
other jobs.
Also Potluck.

1668
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:38,270
A parent wanted to speak to me
about something.

1669
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:42,070
Happy to do it time.
Happy to do it.

1670
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:45,270
It was all great, but all it did
was shunt this massive workload

1671
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:47,790
just went looked to the end.
It's not like I get to the go.

1672
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,470
Well, I like how you for the end
is higher.

1673
01:10:49,540 --> 01:10:51,610
Yeah ohh.
Actually trying to further away

1674
01:10:51,620 --> 01:10:54,430
than I realised that would look
terrible on camera where

1675
01:10:54,440 --> 01:10:57,650
everyone watching this.
And it was just interesting.

1676
01:10:57,660 --> 01:10:59,700
I was like, oh cool, well this
was last year.

1677
01:10:59,710 --> 01:11:02,650
If I just happened to have those
same site sets again, then I

1678
01:11:02,660 --> 01:11:03,870
would have just had less marking
to do.

1679
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:05,930
I would got paid the same and I
would have just gone home, been

1680
01:11:05,940 --> 01:11:08,940
able to spend more time with my
heavily pregnant girlfriend in

1681
01:11:08,950 --> 01:11:11,090
the last few weeks before and
that just would have happened.

1682
01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:13,570
And look, you'll be back at
school after two weeks with that

1683
01:11:13,580 --> 01:11:16,020
and you'll resent it massively,
yeah, and you'll see someone

1684
01:11:16,030 --> 01:11:18,210
across the street from you, a
street across the road, the

1685
01:11:18,220 --> 01:11:21,290
road, what was it?
Across the corridor going home

1686
01:11:21,300 --> 01:11:23,140
half an hour.
I wish you just carried on doing

1687
01:11:25,210 --> 01:11:26,720
the cul-de-sac.
Yeah, going home.

1688
01:11:26,730 --> 01:11:28,280
And that's fine, because I'm
great.

1689
01:11:28,290 --> 01:11:30,230
Yeah.
Just but to to bring it back

1690
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,780
around to the point, because
this episode is going on, the

1691
01:11:32,790 --> 01:11:34,980
problem with workload, I guess
this part of it is about

1692
01:11:34,990 --> 01:11:37,920
potluck, and if you're just
unlucky enough to be in a school

1693
01:11:37,930 --> 01:11:40,250
that's poorly managed, well,
your workload is terrible.

1694
01:11:40,260 --> 01:11:41,610
They've got really bad marking
policies.

1695
01:11:41,620 --> 01:11:43,520
You're doing that, and it's just
more than any other schools

1696
01:11:43,530 --> 01:11:45,360
doing.
You've got really high numbers

1697
01:11:45,370 --> 01:11:49,440
of of kids in your set and
you've got children in your set

1698
01:11:49,550 --> 01:11:54,160
who need more support than the
average child and it is our job

1699
01:11:54,170 --> 01:11:57,530
to do that.
It is just more work though.

1700
01:11:57,540 --> 01:12:00,410
Yes, if you if we had two
glasses parallel classes, right,

1701
01:12:00,500 --> 01:12:03,110
and you just had five children
in there with additional needs

1702
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,650
and I had zero with no funding
by the way, because it's been

1703
01:12:05,660 --> 01:12:06,760
pushed back because.
There's not enough.

1704
01:12:06,770 --> 01:12:07,900
Which is why they're in your
class.

1705
01:12:07,910 --> 01:12:10,090
Because, you know, previously
they might have been able to

1706
01:12:10,100 --> 01:12:11,940
have specialist support.
Yeah, no, not anymore.

1707
01:12:11,950 --> 01:12:13,900
Funding's completely gone but
there was no funding.

1708
01:12:13,910 --> 01:12:15,930
But you still need to teach them
and provide their all of their.

1709
01:12:15,940 --> 01:12:17,580
Needs.
You have to, you have to and

1710
01:12:17,590 --> 01:12:21,130
that might.
That might entail planning

1711
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,380
separate lessons for those
children and resourcing separate

1712
01:12:24,390 --> 01:12:25,830
lessons and that you'd have to
do that.

1713
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:26,800
That's not.
That's not.

1714
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:28,130
Ohh he's just being nice in
doing that.

1715
01:12:28,140 --> 01:12:31,640
You have to do that as that is
their right in school and I

1716
01:12:31,650 --> 01:12:34,430
don't have any any children with
additional needs to that level.

1717
01:12:34,650 --> 01:12:35,370
Cool.
There you go.

1718
01:12:35,380 --> 01:12:37,350
We get paid the same.
You've got to do 10 more hours

1719
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:41,200
of work a week now and I don't.
Simple as no question to it you

1720
01:12:41,210 --> 01:12:42,600
you quit in a year.
I don't.

1721
01:12:42,770 --> 01:12:45,180
Teachers they're all quitting.
Why they why they moaning?

1722
01:12:45,190 --> 01:12:47,540
Their pay is fine because he
couldn't do the job and it comes

1723
01:12:47,550 --> 01:12:51,410
back to management if if that
happens in your school, you

1724
01:12:51,420 --> 01:12:54,410
simply have to solve that
problem.

1725
01:12:54,540 --> 01:12:58,090
I think the the apathetic
attitude of simply just, well

1726
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:01,290
themes the brakes.
No they're not cause I'll quit

1727
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,770
OK that's not the brakes.
I'm not I'm not planning a

1728
01:13:04,780 --> 01:13:07,010
separate I'm already planning
maths for my class.

1729
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,000
We already set for maths which
means it's exactly the right

1730
01:13:10,010 --> 01:13:11,340
level for my children in that
sense.

1731
01:13:11,780 --> 01:13:15,770
If I now have to have completely
different curriculum for a child

1732
01:13:15,940 --> 01:13:19,010
then I need time to do that and
and there's no such thing as

1733
01:13:19,020 --> 01:13:21,400
overtime in teaching.
If that happens and you're

1734
01:13:21,410 --> 01:13:23,240
already having a tough time
because of all the four other

1735
01:13:23,250 --> 01:13:25,260
things we said, ohh.
By the way, someone's joining

1736
01:13:25,270 --> 01:13:27,200
speaks no English.
You need resources to help them

1737
01:13:27,210 --> 01:13:29,100
speak English because they don't
speak any.

1738
01:13:29,150 --> 01:13:31,460
So whilst you're doing maths and
English lessons that I've spoke

1739
01:13:31,470 --> 01:13:35,220
to 8-9 year old children in this
country who've always been here,

1740
01:13:35,270 --> 01:13:38,200
you also need to do some some
stuff and get it ready for for

1741
01:13:38,210 --> 01:13:40,620
your child who doesn't speak
English and is learning what

1742
01:13:40,630 --> 01:13:42,860
colours are and what numbers are
and how to write them.

1743
01:13:42,910 --> 01:13:46,860
So ohh because ohh actually it's
already a job me doing the other

1744
01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:49,380
thing and I want to provide for
these children.

1745
01:13:49,450 --> 01:13:51,960
I want nothing more than to
provide for every child in my

1746
01:13:51,970 --> 01:13:55,540
class, but in the same way that
I can't individually and lessons

1747
01:13:55,550 --> 01:13:59,080
for all children, I can't then
just plan it for this child

1748
01:13:59,140 --> 01:14:01,950
because they're they fit a
certain criteria.

1749
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,780
We need funding.
You need to, but you can't.

1750
01:14:04,790 --> 01:14:08,650
Yeah, yeah, we need funding.
I want to book me a morning out

1751
01:14:08,660 --> 01:14:10,630
so I can plan all of.
This stuff, book specialist

1752
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:11,970
teachers to come and run all
this stuff.

1753
01:14:11,980 --> 01:14:14,050
I'll deliver it.
Yeah, you know, and The thing

1754
01:14:14,060 --> 01:14:15,090
is, you know, you said that
analogy.

1755
01:14:15,100 --> 01:14:17,610
There will be someone in this
country right now who's in that

1756
01:14:17,620 --> 01:14:20,180
situation and drowning in
workload, and there'll be

1757
01:14:20,190 --> 01:14:22,690
someone else in the country
who's getting paid exactly the

1758
01:14:22,700 --> 01:14:24,920
same on the same pay point, or
they're in Scotland, are getting

1759
01:14:24,930 --> 01:14:27,200
paid more.
For that with with a class of

1760
01:14:27,210 --> 01:14:29,980
24, no additional needs and
shared planning with three other

1761
01:14:29,990 --> 01:14:32,640
teachers and they, you know and
the work goes crazy difference.

1762
01:14:32,650 --> 01:14:35,930
So to bring it all back around
workload is a massive, massive,

1763
01:14:35,940 --> 01:14:38,220
massive problem.
It's not regulated whatsoever.

1764
01:14:38,230 --> 01:14:41,100
It's complete potluck as to
whether your workload is going

1765
01:14:41,110 --> 01:14:43,630
to be so unmanageable that you
quit or not.

1766
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,820
And in my imaginary school, one
that we're making up on this, I

1767
01:14:46,830 --> 01:14:50,120
genuinely think if I if I was in
that management position, I

1768
01:14:50,130 --> 01:14:52,300
would first I want a workload
policy and I'd want someone in

1769
01:14:52,310 --> 01:14:54,490
charge of it, whether it was me
or someone else employed to do

1770
01:14:54,500 --> 01:14:56,820
that.
And I would have something like.

1771
01:14:57,490 --> 01:15:00,660
A bit of time spent looking at
every staff member's workload

1772
01:15:00,730 --> 01:15:03,380
and actually taking into account
the individual differences.

1773
01:15:03,490 --> 01:15:05,840
OK, look, OK, we've put you in
year six and yeah, we've put you

1774
01:15:05,850 --> 01:15:08,310
with the all the top sets.
And you know what?

1775
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:11,460
That actually that that does
result in 3-4 more hours a week

1776
01:15:11,470 --> 01:15:13,290
of you marking.
Here's what we're going to do

1777
01:15:13,300 --> 01:15:14,700
about it.
This teacher over here, OK,

1778
01:15:14,710 --> 01:15:16,740
we've recognised it.
You don't get to show your

1779
01:15:16,750 --> 01:15:18,270
planning with anyone, but
everyone else does because

1780
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:20,540
you're teaching these bespoke
groups and you've got two

1781
01:15:20,550 --> 01:15:22,440
children in there that need,
like, individual planning.

1782
01:15:22,450 --> 01:15:24,960
So what we're going to do for
you to balance out your workload

1783
01:15:24,970 --> 01:15:27,500
of everybody else as best as we
can is X&Y.

1784
01:15:27,570 --> 01:15:30,290
Will give you time and I like
the idea of everyone having an

1785
01:15:30,300 --> 01:15:33,250
individual workload.
Yeah, brilliant.

1786
01:15:33,260 --> 01:15:35,350
It's a brilliant idea.
I think it's a lot of time.

1787
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:38,040
And again, it comes down to
funding because again, if you're

1788
01:15:38,050 --> 01:15:40,090
ahead, you've probably got 17
other things to do.

1789
01:15:40,100 --> 01:15:42,440
That's funny, isn't it?
Three other jobs to do, and you

1790
01:15:42,450 --> 01:15:45,150
need it for yourself.
In this situation, like the

1791
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,490
analogy goes up for that head
teacher who's also drowning in

1792
01:15:47,500 --> 01:15:49,700
workload, yeah, the idea of
putting an always specialised

1793
01:15:49,710 --> 01:15:52,750
staff for some of their staff
members, the additional needs

1794
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:55,130
for the staff members, it's just
the same thing, like now they

1795
01:15:55,140 --> 01:15:57,370
can't do that job.
And this, I think I want to

1796
01:15:57,380 --> 01:16:00,060
culminate everything in.
I think everything we've talked

1797
01:16:00,070 --> 01:16:02,380
about, it comes from the top
down.

1798
01:16:02,550 --> 01:16:06,120
I think we have to have a
seismic change in how education

1799
01:16:06,130 --> 01:16:08,790
is run in this country.
And I think that comes from

1800
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:12,160
government, I really do.
And I think government taking it

1801
01:16:12,170 --> 01:16:14,800
seriously and not expecting
things just to get done because

1802
01:16:14,810 --> 01:16:18,200
they will get done because we
have caring staff, it won't.

1803
01:16:18,210 --> 01:16:21,680
We are having people leave the
profession in droves and we are

1804
01:16:21,690 --> 01:16:26,160
sleepwalking into a catastrophic
situation for education.

1805
01:16:27,540 --> 01:16:29,430
I was saying really.
Back and listen to that.

1806
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:33,090
That blunder of words was
perfectly situation walking into

1807
01:16:33,100 --> 01:16:36,190
a catastrophic situation when it
comes to education.

1808
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:38,510
And when someone says just leave
it, it's that bad.

1809
01:16:38,820 --> 01:16:42,060
The issue is that we.
Are so to summarise our list and

1810
01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:44,950
then we are gonna leave you from
this episode in 5th place,

1811
01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:48,710
Ofsted in fourth place, the
culture, parents, media, the

1812
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:52,970
prestige of the job in 3rd
place, pay and funding in second

1813
01:16:52,980 --> 01:16:54,730
place.
Although we talked about it a

1814
01:16:54,740 --> 01:16:56,490
lot more.
Maybe it's joint first by the

1815
01:16:56,500 --> 01:16:58,540
end of this conversation.
I don't know his management and

1816
01:16:58,550 --> 01:17:00,900
how your schools managed and.
At the top of this list of why

1817
01:17:00,910 --> 01:17:04,420
teachers are quitting It's
workload, guys.

1818
01:17:04,430 --> 01:17:06,810
Hope you enjoy the episode and
we'll see you again next time.

1819
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:07,490
Bye.