Ep 23: Rob Smith: The Literacy Shed Founder On Building A Successful Education Business

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Oh, Dylan, it's the end of term.
I hope.

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If you're listening to this on a
Friday morning, it's your last

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day.
You're driving into work.

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Maybe.
Just no, this is your last day.

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You get six weeks off now to
relax.

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You did it, and we've been off
for two days already.

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So, and we have been loving it.
We're gonna pretend that we're

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also in today.
We're not.

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The adequacy outside town.
We've been out in the sun for

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last couple of days just having
a mini breakdown though and that

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we didn't do the intro that we
always do every single time.

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So if you wouldn't mind I'm just
going to jump in right now and

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say hello everyone, welcome to
another.

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Shut off, Teach the repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
Thank you.

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Now I feel much more comfortable
and you can carry.

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On I was gonna do it.
I was gonna do it.

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But I actually knew that you
would feel really uncomfortable

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if I went.
Hi, everyone.

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Welcome to teaching.
Repeat.

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My name is Hayden.
That's you.

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But you said the first you this
just that's enough.

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Said really isn't.
It, yeah.

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Well, maybe one day I'll get the
limelight.

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I'll be lead anchor.
Yeah, you know, it's not about

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the limit, Hayden.
If you've done it every single

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time ever since, like I'm the
kind of guy goes to a Curry

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house and I get the same Curry
for the 15th time in a row.

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So you know, it's it's that kind
of a deal.

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Isn't that Isn't that just
called being really, really

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boring?
Get on, get on and and the great

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thing about that is I know
exactly what you would have said

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if we were on the podcast so I
can take boring much more

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watered down thank.
You leave that one to the

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viewers inference skills.
In fair as you will.

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Anyway, we've got an amazing
podcast signed up for today.

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We're talking to the amazing Rob
Smith.

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As you've seen from the title,
lots of excitement around this

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hidden from people I've spoken
to who can't wait to listen to

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his journey building literacy
shed, which I think a lot of

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people use in their schools.
So it is a fascinating chat, but

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as always, we just want to have
a little bit of a touch base

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with each other and with our
listeners, our viewers, whatever

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we want to call them.
Hayden, the last week of school.

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I mean, I know you didn't want
to go into much detail this

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week, but what what?
What went on?

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My week's been great.
I don't want to say too much

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because next week, guys.
I'm just saying this now got

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really juicy episode and I'm
saving loads of funny bits

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basically for that one.
But I will talk about one thing

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and it it's a story that
involves you and I, Dylan.

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And I've been dying to tell this
story because dying is really

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that will mean something in a
minute.

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It is the most awkward I've
ever, ever, ever seen.

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Dylan now Dylan is quite an
awkward person anyway in certain

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situations, and you really are,
you are you get, well, awkward.

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You're just you're just awkward.
But this was so good.

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It was it was a proper, like a
TV sketch moment.

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So I was in the staff room on
Monday morning.

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We had our little morning,
Monday briefing and morning,

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Monday morning to you here
trying to think of a phrase you

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get wrong.
Anyway.

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So Monday briefing and sat down
on a chair.

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Dylan walks in and there were
two members of staff in there,

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both wearing a black dress,
right.

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Then came in and someone
commented on the fact that

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they're twinning and they're
like the exact same black dress.

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And.
And he was like, ohh, yeah,

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who's died making a joke because
both in black.

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Literally one of them is going
to funeral.

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That's why they're in the back.
And I said, ohh yeah, literally,

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literally her grandad.
So Dylan make me a bit more

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sensitive there.
And he went so red and felt so

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awkward.
And it was just it was such a

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perfect little moment that I got
to relish in watching him squirm

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out of that.
You dug some sort of hole

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afterwards.
I can't remember what you said

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but I was thinking stop now,
stop you forward.

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The only thing I could think to
do was to double down and be

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like try and carry on the joke.
Worst thing, don't do that,

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don't carry on the joke.
Still don't do that.

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No.
So that's honest with you.

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That's all I want to share about
this week as it was just such a

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cringe worthy moment at your.
Expense.

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I actually remember what I said.
So there was someone who was

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going to the funeral.
So I turned to the other one and

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said, well, why are you wearing
black then?

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Yeah, that's it.
Just insult the other person.

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Ohh, we're doing Why am I trying
twice to get it wrong?

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Yeah, it was.
It was terrible and I probably

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both listening, so sorry about
that.

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Yeah, sorry.
I just did it again.

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So thank them for doing that
double.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm really sorry on his behalf.

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The The good thing is lovely
people.

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Lovely knew it wasn't on
purpose.

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Nothing malicious, was it?
Not malicious.

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I just carried on double down
afterwards.

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That was awkward.
But then you were being

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malicious.
Now the first bit wasn't

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malicious, second bit was.
When I found out there was

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something to be malicious about
and I thought I'd go for that.

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No, not at all.
Really awkward.

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And one of those moments where
you just don't want to be inside

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your own body and I didn't know
where to turn, I turned to you

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and I was like, help, please say
something.

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I know you've got a story.
Go on, tell us what's what's

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been going on.
It's just a brief story because

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like you, I think we'll just
dive deeper into that kind of

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stuff next week.
And at last we talked about

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gifts, didn't we?
And we awkwardness of like,

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posting your gifts and stuff.
So about to tell you about my

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gifts I got this week because
there was a scene that came out

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essentially men, if you're
listening to this, you're a male

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primary school teacher.
You know, the whole palava.

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We've done a whole episode, I
mean, my primary school teacher,

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around the dress code and how
it's very hot at the minute and

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formal shoes, socks, trousers
and shirt tucked in.

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It's quite a warm outfit.
So I've been trying to think of

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ways to kind of push the
boundaries as much as possible.

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And that included me wearing
chinos.

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Rolling up the bottoms, having
some kind of summary boat kind

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of shoes and what seems like no
socks, but in fact those little

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pop socks you get, you know that
go around your toes and round

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heel.
So you actually are wearing.

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Socks.
Once you fall off your heel and

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roll down your foot, do you ever
get?

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That exactly.
That's why you've got to get

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that gel.
I've got ones that have gel at

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the back and it sticks to your
skin.

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It stays there.
Hate them.

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Little bits of gel.
The gel mate, it won't fall

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down.
Get the gaol.

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It stays exactly what's meant to
be.

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Anyway, well, you've got your
extremely sweaty skin, so I can

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see what it's like you.
But so I'm wearing that.

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And obviously whenever a man
comes in wearing something

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different, it becomes quite a
thing, doesn't it?

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Like, ohh, look at your ankles.
And you, you come in.

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You asked me the other day, can
I lick your ankles?

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Are you on about what?
I can see him.

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So good one.
Really good.

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Good job.
Well done.

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Trying to make you laugh.
Yeah, it was.

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It was, it was really pretty
funny.

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But you know when you're like
the seventh person in a row to

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comment on the fact that I'm
wearing sandals, I'm like, I'm,

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I don't even sandals.
Have you seen what something

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like this person is wearing a
vest with some flip flops on?

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Like, can I not wear some boat
shoes, please?

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Like it's quite hot.
I can't help it, you know, those

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those sweet little ankles out.
I just wanted to make you feel

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really self-conscious.
Bloody work they did.

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Well done anyway, so one of the
teachers taken it upon herself

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to make a point of the fact I
need some socks for my upcoming

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30th birthday, which is very
soon.

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OK, brilliant.
Anyway, so I come in the next

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day on my Table 5 pack of
Primark socks, which are bright

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blue.
Bright red.

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All these crazy patterns like
good one.

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It turns out as well.
I heard from someone else in

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school that she's been spreading
the good word with the parents

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of my class.
That I need some socks.

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So I come into school and I have
at least three parents have

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given me gift to me.
Socks, some some novelty

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something.
I've got them on right now.

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I was gonna show the viewers.
So here's something you want to

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do.
If you're not on YouTube, on

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Spotify, I'm going to try and
get my leg up to the size of my

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ear to the height of my head
right now.

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Quite, yeah.
So Hayden, can you just

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entertain people while I'm
trying to get into.

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Position guys, if there's lots
of weird cuts here, it's because

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Dylan's taken 17 attempts to get
his leg up.

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And luckily.
It's the wrong side.

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Possible that.
So I've been entertaining you

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for, you know, 10 seconds.
Now here it comes again.

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Look at him gurning, trying to
move his leg.

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Look at him roll a struggle.
Right Dylan.

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Alex.
Joy to tell them what's on your

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stock or I'll get my keeping
that bit longer.

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If you're watching, he's
struggling a.

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Lot if you can hear me please.
Do so, TuneIn.

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To the to the video you can
check us out on.

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I'm not really.
I'm not gonna social.

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I don't know anyway, because
they're all different.

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There's a Gerkin Gerkin sorry on
his sock.

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And Dylan will explain why.
Have you told them why you're

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jerking?
You didn't know, did you not?

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I don't know.
I've told the children.

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I've told the children.
I don't know.

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I've told the repeat massive.
We like to call them brief

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story, very brief story.
I was young, play cricket and I

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went out to bat and my coach had
a McDonald's burger.

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Didn't like the gurkin.
Thought, where can I put this?

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Put it on top of my helmet.
I went out to bat.

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We played very well that game.
We won the match.

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From then on I was known as
Guck, was known as Gurkin.

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I thought, you know, the start
of the year, getting to know

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your class.
The kids will love this.

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They'll love this story.
So I told them it.

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Children call me Mr Gurkin for
about 6 weeks.

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There were some children who did
it funnily, but then some

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children after three or four
weeks who literally felt like

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they've forgotten my name was
Mr. Price and they can't be like

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Mr Gurkin.
I'm a little bit stuck on my,

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like, it wasn't serious
question.

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It was.
Just.

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Just serious question, not even
trying to make me laugh, just

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like I really suck my work.
Mr Gurkin, I was wondering if I

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just if I just did this and I
was like OK so this is the

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thing.
First parents evening I had at

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least 4.
And it's come up and say, oh,

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I've heard all about you, Mr
Gurkin.

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And I was like cool, brilliant
start to the year.

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It's stuck all year.
And I've had socks with Bergson,

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cause gerkins are in burgers.
I've had socks now obviously

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with a massive gurkin just doing
a dance on the side.

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So it's really stuck, which is
lovely.

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But yeah, there's a whole soccer
team going on because, I don't

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know, I like to not be
sweltering hot in the heat, you

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know?
But today I promised I'd wear

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one of the socks and it was the
the gurkin one got the nod.

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They did look good.
I was quite happy to see you

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flashing your ankles today with
the Gerkin socks stretched

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00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:19,610
across them.
They look brilliant.

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00:09:20,140 --> 00:09:22,370
OK, don't get Don't get too much
of A spot on, team my uncle.

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00:09:23,910 --> 00:09:25,650
That's what I'm trying to show
your ankles, so.

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00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,420
I can't wait that that footage
is gonna live on.

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00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:31,510
I'm gonna screenshot and put on
my Instagram, which you can find

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00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,570
it teach Sleep repeat podcast.
Ohh demo, where's the socialist

232
00:09:35,580 --> 00:09:38,980
keep going?
Teacher saw podcast on Twitter

233
00:09:39,070 --> 00:09:42,250
and threads and you could e-mail
us on our e-mail that is in

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00:09:42,260 --> 00:09:46,060
Gmail and teach it with
people@gmail.com.

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00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,620
Well, anyway, how you doing?
We're stalling here.

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00:09:48,630 --> 00:09:49,730
We've got an amazing chat coming
up.

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00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:51,080
We always do this.
We chat and chat and chat.

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00:09:51,090 --> 00:09:52,310
They aren't here for us this
week.

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00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,800
It's a purple thumbnail.
They're not here to talk to us

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00:09:54,810 --> 00:09:56,510
and listen to us.
They're here to listen to Rob.

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00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:04,780
No, exactly.
I'm delighted to be introducing

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00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:08,940
a very important man who's
joined us today, Mr Mr Rob

243
00:10:08,950 --> 00:10:12,260
Smith, who most of you will
probably know from Literacy

244
00:10:12,270 --> 00:10:14,060
Shed.
Rob, thank you so much for

245
00:10:14,070 --> 00:10:15,960
joining us today.
How are we doing?

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00:10:16,190 --> 00:10:19,690
Very good, yes.
I'm still at work, I'm still

247
00:10:19,700 --> 00:10:24,240
here, Let's head offices and
I've just been wrapping birthday

248
00:10:24,250 --> 00:10:29,000
presents last hour and a bit.
So I said, I said to my wife,

249
00:10:29,010 --> 00:10:32,680
I'll stay at work and I wrap all
our seven-year old birthday

250
00:10:32,690 --> 00:10:35,000
presents for his birthday on
Saturday.

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00:10:35,850 --> 00:10:37,780
So that's what we're doing.
So it's just it was a nice

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00:10:37,790 --> 00:10:41,380
little segue into this podcast.
Ohh amazing.

253
00:10:41,390 --> 00:10:43,830
So you managed to get some jobs
done but not actually get home.

254
00:10:44,610 --> 00:10:47,420
Perfect, literally 1000 metres
down the road so I could walk

255
00:10:47,430 --> 00:10:50,730
home, but some things to do.
Ohh, that's cool.

256
00:10:50,740 --> 00:10:51,680
That's gonna be my next
question.

257
00:10:51,690 --> 00:10:53,360
How close are you from your from
your offices?

258
00:10:53,370 --> 00:10:55,890
But you you clearly you've got
that down to a tee.

259
00:10:56,410 --> 00:10:59,440
We're I was one of those people
that moved out who got an office

260
00:10:59,450 --> 00:11:03,500
during lockdown.
Because I got three boys so they

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00:11:03,570 --> 00:11:05,760
they were like, I don't have the
time.

262
00:11:05,770 --> 00:11:11,620
They would have been 4/6 and
tenish and as a shout at the

263
00:11:11,630 --> 00:11:14,960
bar, I've got to work bye and
lock myself in my Home Office.

264
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,330
They they soon, uh, they got
used to that.

265
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,970
So this office came up for rent,
which is literally an old mill,

266
00:11:22,980 --> 00:11:25,950
about a about 1000 metres from
the house.

267
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,310
And so I walked down in the
morning.

268
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:28,830
It's quite nice.
That's perfect for you.

269
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,670
Then it looks like you got
another desk behind you as well,

270
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,630
so it's not just you here, not
not too alone.

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00:11:32,780 --> 00:11:34,850
Four in here.
There's another office next door

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00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:38,600
with that 6/6 so.
Well, hopefully we can dive into

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00:11:38,610 --> 00:11:41,870
that kind of the Inns and outs
of this, because I think it's a

274
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,130
really popular online portal and
a lot of teachers access it.

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00:11:46,140 --> 00:11:48,530
So it'd be nice to kind of, you
know, peek under the cover and

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00:11:48,540 --> 00:11:51,810
how it all works.
But before we do that, I do like

277
00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:55,160
to come in and just do my very,
very unique game, Rob, which is

278
00:11:55,220 --> 00:11:57,670
I simply say a word and you have
to just simply say your first

279
00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:59,430
reaction.
And we've done it a few times

280
00:11:59,580 --> 00:12:02,200
with other guests.
We always do an example of

281
00:12:02,210 --> 00:12:07,840
Hayden, so for example.
If if I said to Hayden Shampoo,

282
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:10,420
his first reaction to that word
would be unnecessary.

283
00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:13,740
Exactly.
So it's just whatever you think

284
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:16,760
your first reaction is.
Again.

285
00:12:17,390 --> 00:12:18,800
Don't overthink it because we
have.

286
00:12:18,810 --> 00:12:20,970
Sometimes people think, frankly,
I don't know, I don't say the

287
00:12:20,980 --> 00:12:22,260
wrong thing.
No problem.

288
00:12:22,270 --> 00:12:23,820
Just the first thing that comes
into your head.

289
00:12:24,050 --> 00:12:25,080
Are you all good?
Yeah.

290
00:12:26,290 --> 00:12:28,480
OK, let's do it.
OK, 10 things.

291
00:12:28,650 --> 00:12:30,590
Here we go.
Writing.

292
00:12:31,690 --> 00:12:35,880
Bob.
I agree reading.

293
00:12:35,980 --> 00:12:39,680
Also fun.
Do the same thing.

294
00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:42,030
Right.
Yeah, that's absolutely fine.

295
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,730
They're both fun.
That's absolutely fine.

296
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,410
Hayden put this one in.
Interested Me TikTok.

297
00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,240
I've I've never used it.
Yeah, I'm with.

298
00:12:52,250 --> 00:12:54,760
You I'm with, you find it odd
tick tock.

299
00:12:54,950 --> 00:12:57,370
Yeah, OK.
I like maybe Hayden coming after

300
00:12:57,380 --> 00:12:59,710
us just to wipe it in because I
saw it and I thought, OK, I'll

301
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:00,670
go with it.
Yeah, that's right.

302
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:05,360
Next one, Schemes of Learning.
Useful.

303
00:13:06,650 --> 00:13:10,100
Hmm, maths.
Tricky.

304
00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:15,700
I'm getting a getting a vibe
here Sats.

305
00:13:17,290 --> 00:13:20,400
Misused.
Ohh good.

306
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:22,530
I like that answer teacher
well-being.

307
00:13:23,390 --> 00:13:27,090
Important.
Yep, this was a controversial 1I

308
00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:30,040
snuck it in there strikes.
Necessary.

309
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,130
He's one of us, Hayden.
He's one of us TA's.

310
00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:41,920
I was gonna say salsa the air.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love

311
00:13:41,930 --> 00:13:43,370
that.
And the last one, it's always

312
00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:44,730
the same.
So we know what's coming.

313
00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:48,870
All the listeners Ofsted.
I was gonna swear that.

314
00:13:51,180 --> 00:13:52,540
That's it.
That's the answer that.

315
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:53,310
You say?
Well, no.

316
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,840
Misused.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

317
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:58,920
That's a much nicer.
Version of what you were

318
00:13:58,930 --> 00:14:00,410
thinking that maybe we were all
thinking.

319
00:14:00,420 --> 00:14:01,990
That's fair enough.
I will just dive into TikTok

320
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,610
very quickly and I'm gonna ask
you about your Sats answer the

321
00:14:04,620 --> 00:14:06,400
reason I put ticks in there.
I thought be interesting.

322
00:14:06,410 --> 00:14:07,650
I know you got.
I know you've got younger

323
00:14:07,660 --> 00:14:10,980
children as well and you
probably know that TikTok is so

324
00:14:10,990 --> 00:14:13,680
rife at the moment.
I find it is anyway with as a

325
00:14:13,690 --> 00:14:17,700
year six teacher with kids at
school like it's such a problem

326
00:14:17,710 --> 00:14:20,070
to us sometimes as well like
with children trying to use it

327
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,860
in school and it's all they want
to do and talk about.

328
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:26,060
So I don't know with young
children yourself and also being

329
00:14:26,070 --> 00:14:28,340
involved in the educational
world if you've ever come across

330
00:14:28,350 --> 00:14:32,140
any issues with it.
So my eldest is 13, he's.

331
00:14:32,780 --> 00:14:35,500
We've had a couple of issues
just where, when he was a bit

332
00:14:35,510 --> 00:14:37,930
younger saw things that we
wouldn't necessarily want to

333
00:14:37,940 --> 00:14:40,140
see.
You don't use it very often.

334
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:44,330
He's rather Snapchatter,
WhatsApp and Type Person and

335
00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:49,300
PlayStation chat.
You know some of the things that

336
00:14:49,310 --> 00:14:53,250
I think.
Gets on my nerves about like get

337
00:14:53,260 --> 00:14:54,560
some nerves in the wrong word
but.

338
00:14:55,470 --> 00:14:57,650
Frustrated with it is that
they're experimented.

339
00:14:57,660 --> 00:15:01,430
They're 13, you know, But there
were, I saw a chapter where they

340
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,810
were him and his friends there
are lovely lads but they're all

341
00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:07,950
swearing.
It was a PlayStation chat which

342
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,460
pops up on my phone and they're
all swearing.

343
00:15:11,410 --> 00:15:13,580
And I said that's written down.
I said all it takes is for

344
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:15,990
someone's mum to Snapchat, but
it said that to school or to

345
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,370
your permit, so everyone sees
it.

346
00:15:17,380 --> 00:15:20,040
I said, but when we were
children, we were, we were

347
00:15:20,050 --> 00:15:23,940
experimenting in a bus stop,
under a lamppost in the raid and

348
00:15:23,950 --> 00:15:26,560
we still do the same swear
words, but nobody else could

349
00:15:26,570 --> 00:15:29,000
hear it or see it.
So they've got to do all this

350
00:15:29,010 --> 00:15:31,870
stuff that we were doing private
or in the middle of a field or.

351
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,450
Face to face, they're doing that
in a public forum that anyone

352
00:15:36,460 --> 00:15:38,970
could take and manipulated.
For me, that's the issue, not

353
00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:41,470
the, you know, some of the
things they're doing.

354
00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:46,200
Could be manipulated to take it
out of context and used against

355
00:15:46,210 --> 00:15:47,660
them.
So that's the thing that

356
00:15:47,730 --> 00:15:50,330
frustrates me about it, but it
but it usually things like that,

357
00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:51,920
it's there forever.
That was my next point.

358
00:15:51,930 --> 00:15:53,750
It's there forever, isn't it?
I think some of the children at

359
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,560
school, I always try to get that
point across and they just go,

360
00:15:57,010 --> 00:15:58,520
yeah, well, whatever, you know,
they don't.

361
00:15:58,530 --> 00:15:59,720
They don't really seem to
listen.

362
00:15:59,730 --> 00:16:02,280
But I do worry sometimes that
they're just getting themselves.

363
00:16:02,290 --> 00:16:04,600
You said there's content on
there that maybe isn't

364
00:16:04,650 --> 00:16:07,480
appropriate for them.
And I find it a battle

365
00:16:07,570 --> 00:16:10,400
personally, talking to children
and even families sometimes

366
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:13,530
trying to convince them that
maybe there should be some

367
00:16:13,540 --> 00:16:15,020
restriction here.
So that's why I chucked that one

368
00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:19,290
in, But more interestingly.
When when I asked that, when

369
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:23,110
Dylan said Sats, you you gave an
interesting answer about Sats.

370
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,370
What could you, could you expand
a bit more into your feelings

371
00:16:26,380 --> 00:16:28,380
around Sats and how they're
misused?

372
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,010
I just think it's the whole
accountability thing.

373
00:16:31,070 --> 00:16:34,170
I think children need to be
tested and low stakes testing is

374
00:16:34,180 --> 00:16:37,220
fine.
Even end of year summative

375
00:16:37,230 --> 00:16:40,110
testing just to give you a
cheque and gap testing or

376
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,670
whatever, that's fine, but then
to use it for?

377
00:16:44,660 --> 00:16:48,820
High schools to set, using it to
test progress at the end of year

378
00:16:48,830 --> 00:16:51,670
11 to check progress against
EYFS.

379
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,330
It's just not very good measure,
is it?

380
00:16:53,420 --> 00:16:58,670
And then all that pressure on
teachers that may may exist in

381
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,810
some schools, doesn't exist in
other schools.

382
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:05,119
It's just it's just too much.
So yeah, do a test.

383
00:17:05,170 --> 00:17:08,079
Do that reading test.
Just don't make it the B.

384
00:17:08,089 --> 00:17:10,280
All and all of the whole of
their school career.

385
00:17:10,349 --> 00:17:14,040
A single reading about bees or
about caving.

386
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,960
Yeah, that's what I bought.
Forgot the bees?

387
00:17:20,050 --> 00:17:24,390
But I just yeah, tester is five.
Do a writing test if you want,

388
00:17:24,450 --> 00:17:27,980
but just don't use it as this is
just some of your school.

389
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:31,690
Is it by the age of 11?
Hmm it's such a good point

390
00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:33,930
because we've we've test sorry
hidden but we're testing.

391
00:17:33,980 --> 00:17:36,530
I've always found it really
interesting conversation because

392
00:17:36,580 --> 00:17:39,430
I've struggled when people jump
straight to abolish this acts

393
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,140
like abolish the idea of testing
too much testing and key stage

394
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:44,070
two.
Because I think testing in

395
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,390
general has such a good place in
our in our you know profession

396
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,910
in terms of like you said
filling in gaps and seeing what

397
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,150
children can do.
So I I think there's like a

398
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,480
middle ground where most people
I think are but you do get those

399
00:17:56,490 --> 00:17:58,530
extremes on either side don't
you have maybe the government

400
00:17:58,540 --> 00:18:00,930
saying it's the only way to do
this and then other people

401
00:18:00,940 --> 00:18:03,610
saying no we can't do it at all.
I think if we just scrapped

402
00:18:03,620 --> 00:18:05,670
Sacks it would be to the
detriment of our children to be

403
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,510
honest with you all that idea of
testing rather.

404
00:18:08,190 --> 00:18:11,320
The fact that they like to be
tested, though, you know, if

405
00:18:11,470 --> 00:18:15,140
kids like quizzing kids, you
know, they like watching quiz

406
00:18:15,150 --> 00:18:17,220
programmes on TV, they'll do
quizzes.

407
00:18:17,290 --> 00:18:20,860
They get tested all the time on
computer games, on the PS5, to

408
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:22,760
be tested every day.
Could you get better than the

409
00:18:22,770 --> 00:18:24,990
score you got yesterday?
Could you beat this score

410
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,190
yesterday?
So it's not an abhorrent thing

411
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,880
for them to be tested, just that
pressure that they're put on by

412
00:18:31,890 --> 00:18:35,920
parents as well, just not by
teachers and whoever, but also

413
00:18:35,930 --> 00:18:38,780
by parents who I think just
sometimes don't understand.

414
00:18:39,170 --> 00:18:42,060
When I taught you six, they were
like, what it needs to get this

415
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:43,600
test back.
And I'm saying.

416
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,050
You're the only person pushing
it.

417
00:18:46,140 --> 00:18:49,200
No one else is.
So.

418
00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:52,570
Yeah, it's just about that
accountability thing I think is

419
00:18:52,580 --> 00:18:55,660
misused quite a lot and
especially when it's all part of

420
00:18:55,670 --> 00:18:59,870
the Year 6 teacher in September
and you know, and it's so true,

421
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,390
their progress report at the end
of it, have you got this many

422
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,350
children?
And as I say.

423
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,650
It's a key stage two paper.
Yeah, it's everybody.

424
00:19:07,020 --> 00:19:11,460
So, Rob, I've been a big fan of
you for a long time and the

425
00:19:11,470 --> 00:19:14,270
things you've done.
So it's really nice for me to be

426
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:15,430
sat here right now talking to
you.

427
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,430
But I don't know, I don't come
across like that in the podcast.

428
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,630
But what I want to get too late,
what I really want to ask you

429
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,750
really here I suppose is for our
listeners.

430
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,970
I imagine a lot of our listeners
will know you or know of your

431
00:19:26,980 --> 00:19:30,010
work, but we also have quite a
few listeners who aren't in the

432
00:19:30,020 --> 00:19:32,580
teaching world as well who are
just interested in hearing sort

433
00:19:32,590 --> 00:19:35,680
of insights into this kind of
completely different world to

434
00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:38,390
maybe what they work in.
So I was hoping we could just

435
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,030
dive back into your life a
little bit and maybe go a bit

436
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,310
back in time and just find out
your roots.

437
00:19:45,410 --> 00:19:48,300
In the teaching world, where did
you begin?

438
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:50,720
You were, you were primary
school teacher at the start

439
00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:54,960
before you dived into sort of
literacy, literacy shed world.

440
00:19:55,010 --> 00:19:58,170
How did it all start for you?
Yeah, I was a private school

441
00:19:58,180 --> 00:20:01,690
teacher.
I went to do A levels.

442
00:20:02,730 --> 00:20:07,410
And at the same time I was
playing rugby league for Salford

443
00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:09,360
City Reds.
I was only 18 count to me than

444
00:20:09,370 --> 00:20:16,200
the 18th the 20 ones and I think
I was doing I wanna do the PA

445
00:20:16,210 --> 00:20:18,380
level.
I was doing chemistry history.

446
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:21,260
I think the ones that I dropped
for PE when my.

447
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:25,180
Pete, it just, well rugby coach
said because you played for

448
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:27,540
Great Britain, you get an
automatic, A, you practical

449
00:20:27,610 --> 00:20:30,520
automatic, A star and that means
you've got to take the exam.

450
00:20:30,530 --> 00:20:36,780
You'll still get a C so.
Yeah, they dropped History of

451
00:20:36,790 --> 00:20:39,840
French and Chemistry from the
and English.

452
00:20:41,230 --> 00:20:45,080
It's dead and then it could
evade levels.

453
00:20:45,090 --> 00:20:47,480
I was one of those.
Boys that don't really know

454
00:20:47,490 --> 00:20:50,250
what's out there, I've got some
work experience this officer

455
00:20:50,260 --> 00:20:54,380
office and hated it.
I thought I could play rugby,

456
00:20:54,390 --> 00:20:58,210
but then rugby league salaries
were about about about 10 grand

457
00:20:58,220 --> 00:21:00,700
a year at the time, so I thought
I go to university.

458
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:09,220
I should go be a peer teacher.
Secretary and the P staff at six

459
00:21:09,230 --> 00:21:10,880
FOB said.
I think you'd like primary.

460
00:21:11,660 --> 00:21:14,580
So I said, well, I could think
that, so I don't know who's

461
00:21:14,590 --> 00:21:16,030
cause I don't think I was very
good at PE.

462
00:21:18,050 --> 00:21:20,080
So I went to private.
Maybe you could do a bit of

463
00:21:20,090 --> 00:21:21,440
everything.
I'm gonna try it.

464
00:21:21,450 --> 00:21:23,590
And it was one of those.
Ohh, you'll be ahead in 10

465
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:24,560
years.
You know that type of

466
00:21:24,570 --> 00:21:27,640
conversation that's happening?
Yeah, with men that wanna go be

467
00:21:27,650 --> 00:21:31,610
private school teachers and
loved it.

468
00:21:32,740 --> 00:21:36,070
So I went and I was at
Northampton Beauty for four

469
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,850
years to the Edward Primary
Education Specialism.

470
00:21:40,330 --> 00:21:42,320
And yeah, I got my first job
again.

471
00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:45,490
QT in, Kettering in.
Northamptonshire.

472
00:21:46,340 --> 00:21:49,380
And I was there for three years.
Loved it.

473
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,990
Pick you know they said yes to
everything that the after school

474
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,430
clubs, knitting club, motor
Sports Club, everything,

475
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,030
whatever.
If anybody said to me do this, I

476
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:06,470
said yeah.
PDF PTA meeting and the headset

477
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,370
just called.
I need another teacher with me

478
00:22:08,380 --> 00:22:12,620
to come out so I went to the PTA
meeting with the head, proposed

479
00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:15,890
me to be the third of the PTA
and so one second did it and

480
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:17,770
though I voted against it, so I
became the.

481
00:22:19,740 --> 00:22:23,820
As a single fella, just straight
out of university, so it was

482
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:26,230
just so I could go to the events
and lock up after the discos and

483
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,390
stuff I think.
Yeah, literally.

484
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,230
He just thought, this is a guy
who's gonna say yes.

485
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,110
Come along mate, come on.
It was just one of those things.

486
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:36,650
It was a really.
Deprived area.

487
00:22:36,660 --> 00:22:39,990
The kids were amazing.
I was in year 6QT.

488
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,810
Ohh wow.
Cool.

489
00:22:43,070 --> 00:22:45,230
That's a tough start.
In that's great.

490
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,180
So I remember the first day, he
said.

491
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:49,950
Ohh, it's it's a bit I think
they had spent rough round here

492
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:54,350
with an armed siege last year.
And we'll take all the children

493
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,030
away from a gunman, through the
playground, into the park, at

494
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,650
the back with ladders, over the
over the playground.

495
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:01,930
So that was the type of school
it was.

496
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,980
Sound Wow, what area should I
avoid?

497
00:23:04,990 --> 00:23:08,350
Sorry, what area was this?
Is a lovely place for it's just

498
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:12,550
this OK Just I think yeah, well,
the street, I bet it's lovely it

499
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,030
was 20 years ago.
Yeah.

500
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:17,050
What an introduction to
teaching, though, So signed up

501
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:21,750
to the PTA, dumped into year six
and made to be careful of.

502
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:26,300
It was a it was that school
where Jay Considine was the

503
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:29,290
school improvement officer.
Ohh.

504
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:31,420
Yeah, She came in a small while
I was there.

505
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:32,890
Q2.
She was delivering English

506
00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:34,840
lessons in my classroom with me.
So yeah.

507
00:23:34,850 --> 00:23:38,690
Ohh no way.
Yeah, 20 years or something, so.

508
00:23:38,970 --> 00:23:41,490
Do you do you remember I just
wanna touch back on what you

509
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:44,300
said cause I remember that exact
moment as well where primary was

510
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:46,480
kind of not pushed on me but
kind of suggested.

511
00:23:46,540 --> 00:23:48,920
I never really thought to myself
I'm going to be a primary school

512
00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:50,680
teacher.
I kind of fell in.

513
00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:54,180
I did history at university,
went to my secondary school to

514
00:23:54,190 --> 00:23:56,800
watch some history lessons
because I thought I might become

515
00:23:56,810 --> 00:23:58,540
a history teacher because what
else you do have a history

516
00:23:58,550 --> 00:24:01,810
degree offer than teach history.
So we went into my secondary

517
00:24:01,820 --> 00:24:05,880
school and as part of that I had
to do 5 days in a primary school

518
00:24:05,890 --> 00:24:07,850
and I don't know why.
I really don't know why and I

519
00:24:07,860 --> 00:24:09,910
thought do I have to and someone
said I'll just go along just go

520
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,460
and do it.
And it's that weird moment when

521
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:15,160
I stepped in and I just thought
the vibe and the feeling was

522
00:24:15,170 --> 00:24:18,200
completely different and.
Just it was just this this

523
00:24:18,210 --> 00:24:20,270
moment where I realised ohh this
is what I want to do.

524
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,760
And was it as quick as that for
you or did you take a bit of

525
00:24:22,770 --> 00:24:25,660
convincing?
I think I just, yeah, I think I

526
00:24:25,670 --> 00:24:26,980
just, that's what I was gonna
do.

527
00:24:27,050 --> 00:24:30,560
And because I couldn't, I didn't
have any other things in my

528
00:24:30,570 --> 00:24:33,650
mind, what I was going to do.
And then I just started looking

529
00:24:33,660 --> 00:24:37,330
at universities at this primary
education and literally had no.

530
00:24:38,420 --> 00:24:41,260
Other.
For back really and the subjects

531
00:24:41,270 --> 00:24:44,670
aren't taking were all.
You know English let.

532
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,010
But what do you know?
It's not like ohh chemistry.

533
00:24:48,020 --> 00:24:51,260
I'll be a chemist I've done.
Right to bear, linguist it was.

534
00:24:51,270 --> 00:24:54,440
I've got English late, I'd pay
at sociology.

535
00:24:54,660 --> 00:24:57,950
WhatsApp.
So you could be the head of a

536
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,100
PTA, that's that's.
It yeah, so.

537
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,700
That was the best thing I've
ever thought.

538
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:05,700
I mean, I always have lots of
lads I played rugby with.

539
00:25:05,710 --> 00:25:07,910
University went on to become
primary school teacher.

540
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,020
Afterwards.
I don't know what to do.

541
00:25:09,030 --> 00:25:11,160
I said will be a primary school
teacher is amazing.

542
00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:13,960
It is one of those jobs like a
lot of people from all different

543
00:25:13,970 --> 00:25:15,890
walks of life can go into it and
if anything we encourage that

544
00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:19,090
because we want we actively need
people in this profession from

545
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:22,330
all different walks of life.
Well, similarly to Dylan went to

546
00:25:22,340 --> 00:25:24,450
university as well.
I went and did film, radio and

547
00:25:24,460 --> 00:25:28,520
television so nothing like his
history degree and got to the

548
00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:32,300
end of that and I was like cool,
I'm not cut out for this world

549
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:34,820
in London of like filming and
things like that.

550
00:25:34,910 --> 00:25:37,460
And I just volunteered at the
school and it's the same sort of

551
00:25:37,470 --> 00:25:38,920
thing.
Within a couple of weeks I was

552
00:25:38,930 --> 00:25:41,520
like this is really cool.
Like I remember just working

553
00:25:41,530 --> 00:25:44,650
with a child and and.
They helped them, just as simple

554
00:25:44,660 --> 00:25:45,880
as that.
I helped them with something and

555
00:25:45,890 --> 00:25:47,650
then they got something.
I was like, wow, that was a nice

556
00:25:47,660 --> 00:25:48,930
feeling.
That was cool.

557
00:25:48,940 --> 00:25:49,990
Like, I've never had this
before.

558
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,430
And then I was just, yeah, I
just hooked and and went and did

559
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,090
a PGCE straight in, straight in.
The game, never left.

560
00:25:57,420 --> 00:25:59,990
And now here we are striking.
So something's gone wrong.

561
00:26:00,420 --> 00:26:02,960
I I did just want to jump in
there, Rob, and kind of make

562
00:26:02,970 --> 00:26:04,430
that link because it is really
interesting.

563
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:05,930
We're talking about how we
started.

564
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:07,570
Here we are.
It's such an amazing world.

565
00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:09,150
And I still think the job is
fantastic.

566
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,210
And I know you obviously still
love what you did back then

567
00:26:12,220 --> 00:26:14,470
working with the children.
But we're in a situation now

568
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,230
where all three of us, we're not
full-time teachers anymore.

569
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,530
So we've we've made that
transition from a job that we

570
00:26:19,540 --> 00:26:23,410
sit and say we love.
What what kind of how did you

571
00:26:23,420 --> 00:26:26,950
end up in this situation as you
know the the guy who founded

572
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,830
etched and literally shared and
what made you kind of make that

573
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,970
jump was accidental or was it
really a focused path where you

574
00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:34,850
thought I need something else
here?

575
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:41,190
Yeah, accidental I was.
Teacher come back up north, all

576
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,790
my friends started leaving
university, moving away.

577
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,830
Especially on my part of that
bit with the university, she'd

578
00:26:48,780 --> 00:26:53,300
split up.
And so we're just so I'll go

579
00:26:53,310 --> 00:26:57,140
back and live back up north with
my parents and we started a few

580
00:26:57,150 --> 00:26:59,500
days, told me to do my nan.
She wasn't bothered what time I

581
00:26:59,510 --> 00:27:05,050
went out and came in.
So look my nan for a few for a

582
00:27:05,060 --> 00:27:09,630
few years and talk back up in.
In the Northwest, I got my first

583
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:16,180
job in Heywood, near Manchester
near Rochdale, and was a year

584
00:27:16,190 --> 00:27:18,660
six teacher for a while.
Then I was in year five teacher

585
00:27:18,670 --> 00:27:22,140
back into year 6.
What about my wife?

586
00:27:22,210 --> 00:27:26,780
So it's still married and it was
one of those.

587
00:27:26,860 --> 00:27:30,780
It was a Christmas party and
then we did our marking over a

588
00:27:30,790 --> 00:27:32,400
bottle of wine and things like
that.

589
00:27:34,330 --> 00:27:35,890
And then in that school we had
an Ofsted.

590
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:41,320
And after came and viewed my
lessons, there was a writing

591
00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:42,930
lesson that they thought was
inadequate.

592
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:49,260
Followed by Western, which they
also said was inadequate and the

593
00:27:49,270 --> 00:27:52,090
head teacher still tells a story
that I threw stuff at Ousted

594
00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:56,350
which wasn't true.
So I went and argued with case

595
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,880
and they said we didn't do any
reading and I said you were in

596
00:27:58,890 --> 00:28:00,120
there.
After the reading, we read the

597
00:28:00,210 --> 00:28:02,290
section of Harry Potter we were
writing a.

598
00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:07,290
Parcel stories, So a bit of
Harry Potter, the part, key

599
00:28:07,300 --> 00:28:09,870
section.
He's a little bit of a video

600
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,200
clip where he operates.
Ohh yeah, you did do reading.

601
00:28:14,210 --> 00:28:15,730
You didn't do any writing that
lesson.

602
00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:18,970
And I said, well, because of a
quirk of the timetable of a 2

603
00:28:18,980 --> 00:28:21,920
hour English lesson, on whatever
day it was, I said to you, Mr

604
00:28:21,930 --> 00:28:24,250
Writing, you were in the lesson
for the writing.

605
00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:25,710
Hmm.
As you said.

606
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,340
Well, you could have done much
right in that lesson.

607
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:29,880
So I went and got the books a
little read some of the written

608
00:28:29,890 --> 00:28:31,640
four sides of a four, and I
remember.

609
00:28:33,150 --> 00:28:37,590
Look through the box for that.
She had you did all that in this

610
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,280
lesson so just testing out the
clip I said right, OK what about

611
00:28:42,290 --> 00:28:44,860
the French And he said ohh, that
was now the cliches you

612
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:48,350
repeating some of the language
you did last week in French and

613
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,790
I said because that's how it
works.

614
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,950
So I said we're looking at how
to buy things in a shop and last

615
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,440
week we were buying vegetables
and this week practising that

616
00:28:58,450 --> 00:29:05,010
same language but but the buying
fruits and he said Oh yeah both

617
00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:07,730
inadequate so.
Can you?

618
00:29:07,940 --> 00:29:10,270
That's crazy, sorry.
Can you imagine in any other

619
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,030
lesson saying, oh, I need to
plan this, but I can't say any

620
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,490
words that I've said in the
previous one.

621
00:29:15,980 --> 00:29:17,430
Progression.
What's that?

622
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,920
That's just at literally
gobsmacked and not long after

623
00:29:20,930 --> 00:29:25,380
that they came and it was a new
head and they said, have you got

624
00:29:25,390 --> 00:29:29,680
your contract?
And I said contracts, they said,

625
00:29:29,910 --> 00:29:32,070
yeah, you contract, we've took
it down as a.

626
00:29:33,490 --> 00:29:35,340
Temporary.
I've been there three years.

627
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:38,290
What?
No, Alyssa, we think they're all

628
00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:39,060
headed.
It fell out.

629
00:29:39,070 --> 00:29:42,320
Any farmers properly, I was
like, right, OK, I don't have a

630
00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:44,240
contract, I said.
But I definitely had one because

631
00:29:44,250 --> 00:29:46,930
today I got made permanent.
I've got a Market Square house.

632
00:29:48,820 --> 00:29:50,670
They said you have to apply for
your job then.

633
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:55,720
That's what I said.
It felt like constructive that

634
00:29:55,730 --> 00:29:58,460
this missile type thing.
So I said yeah.

635
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,620
Okay, apply for my job.
So I did this.

636
00:30:01,630 --> 00:30:04,930
It's applied for lots of other
jobs in different places and the

637
00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:07,590
day of my interview there was
two of us got got to interview.

638
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,090
I don't know, they just said
ohh, I'm not gonna conference.

639
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:14,160
You've got a new job.
That's hilarious.

640
00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:16,220
And I love that play them at
their own.

641
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:18,980
Game.
Then they said, have you got a

642
00:30:18,990 --> 00:30:22,420
job without a reference?
And I was like because I used

643
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:26,460
other people for reference
because you've screwed me over

644
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:30,790
basically.
I don't know what's this.

645
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,220
You can leave it in the podcast,
but I'm not knowing anything.

646
00:30:33,290 --> 00:30:36,200
No, no, as much as you want me
as much as.

647
00:30:36,210 --> 00:30:39,930
What we think happened was that
that was SLT then phoned the

648
00:30:39,940 --> 00:30:42,180
school where I got a new job,
should have been starting on the

649
00:30:42,190 --> 00:30:45,230
first day of the Christmas and
that school forming the last day

650
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,270
before Christmas and said we
don't want anymore.

651
00:30:48,450 --> 00:30:50,560
No.
I've met my class, I'd met my

652
00:30:50,570 --> 00:30:53,460
new year three class and they
said so I phoned him up on the

653
00:30:53,470 --> 00:30:55,260
last day.
I said, ohh, you've not told me

654
00:30:55,270 --> 00:30:57,490
if it's a Monday back on a
Tuesday back and they said if

655
00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:59,200
you've not had our letter we
don't want you anymore.

656
00:31:00,780 --> 00:31:05,070
Last day before Christmas, so
then had to apply for more jobs.

657
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,290
Yeah, I mean, so I had from
Christmas till the February

658
00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:14,420
without a job.
Basically I've got a new job.

659
00:31:15,950 --> 00:31:18,320
Another another skill that I got
without a reference with that

660
00:31:18,330 --> 00:31:22,800
skill and they and so in that
time when I've been working at

661
00:31:22,810 --> 00:31:25,740
the Sky blog.
That was called Mr Smith's

662
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:29,690
Weekly Teaching Ideas.
Was it?

663
00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:33,650
I'm close to us. posterous.com,
which was an old pocket tonight,

664
00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:37,390
way before WordPress was
thinking about 2008.

665
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,330
Nine.
Yes.

666
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:42,400
And people reading it, like
thousands of people, 10s of

667
00:31:42,410 --> 00:31:44,110
thousands of people a week were
reading the blog.

668
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,430
And I'm just basically saying,
this is what I talked today.

669
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,620
This is the resources they use,
This is the right one we got out

670
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:52,970
of it.
This is a nice visual thesaurus.

671
00:31:52,980 --> 00:31:54,970
Just little things like that.
It wasn't like a massive

672
00:31:54,980 --> 00:31:58,710
pedagogical approach.
It was basically what I'm doing

673
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,560
in my lessons.
And I started posting the film

674
00:32:02,570 --> 00:32:05,380
clips on there that I was using.
I started using film clips

675
00:32:05,450 --> 00:32:08,450
really on him early on in my
career from like then the first

676
00:32:08,460 --> 00:32:12,660
one I used was.
The the trailer for Brave,

677
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:15,860
Pixar's Brave.
So that's also when that OK yeah

678
00:32:15,870 --> 00:32:17,970
that came out.
Yeah yeah.

679
00:32:18,010 --> 00:32:21,440
And started posting a film clips
with what I've done with it and

680
00:32:21,450 --> 00:32:24,600
showing the writing.
And so I decided in that half

681
00:32:24,610 --> 00:32:28,220
term I had before I started my
new job to turn into a website.

682
00:32:29,180 --> 00:32:30,140
That was it.
Ohh.

683
00:32:30,150 --> 00:32:33,950
Literacy Shed was was born in
those like six weeks between

684
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,870
Christmas and February, yeah.
I I feel like I.

685
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,130
Remember all of, all of that?
Kind of came round, didn't it?

686
00:32:39,140 --> 00:32:40,310
Sorry.
Like, that's amazing how that

687
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,070
story of you at the time must
have been so annoyed at that

688
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,290
kind of treatment.
I could imagine exactly how I'd

689
00:32:45,300 --> 00:32:47,060
feel.
And then you look back now and

690
00:32:47,070 --> 00:32:49,200
you're like, oh, wait a minute,
This is the thing happened

691
00:32:49,210 --> 00:32:50,320
because of it.
That's amazing.

692
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,890
Yeah, I mean, I'd love.
I'd love him to still be ahead

693
00:32:54,340 --> 00:32:56,900
and I could have just had
confidence gone.

694
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,030
Alright you you'll see when they
they purchase on your you get an

695
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,590
e-mail blank blank blank has
purchased literacy plus and

696
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,140
you'll just.
Let it go at the school of that

697
00:33:07,150 --> 00:33:09,110
the first, the original school
did that.

698
00:33:09,170 --> 00:33:11,370
The teachers used to use it
secretly used to cut things.

699
00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:14,570
That used to cut the.
Is because it often secret.

700
00:33:14,580 --> 00:33:17,300
Yeah, this hotel video gives you
planning, but we cut the bottom

701
00:33:17,310 --> 00:33:20,580
off the planning and stuff like.
Oh my God yeah.

702
00:33:20,590 --> 00:33:22,720
But they they cut the inadequate
off at the.

703
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:27,840
Bottom Yeah, the offset that
writing lesson with adequate and

704
00:33:27,850 --> 00:33:30,680
I sell it around the world.
I love that so much.

705
00:33:30,690 --> 00:33:32,830
And you just leave comments on
the blog and you just get one

706
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,380
comment every time.
Inadequate.

707
00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:36,370
You know, that is someone who
doesn't know what they're.

708
00:33:36,380 --> 00:33:40,520
Somebody wrote your report.
No, I think that's a great cop

709
00:33:40,530 --> 00:33:41,660
story.
I love stuff like that.

710
00:33:41,670 --> 00:33:43,740
Because do you know what?
This is one of those professions

711
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:47,540
where people get a really
rubbish deal sometimes.

712
00:33:47,550 --> 00:33:49,970
I've noticed that from the
Facebook groups that we're all

713
00:33:49,980 --> 00:33:52,600
in and we see each other sort of
commenting on the things.

714
00:33:52,690 --> 00:33:55,380
And some people are just just
have a rubbish time and not

715
00:33:55,390 --> 00:33:57,650
necessarily at their own fault
in any way.

716
00:33:57,870 --> 00:34:00,600
And I think it's good for any
listeners out there who are

717
00:34:00,610 --> 00:34:02,590
maybe just going for a rough
patch and teaching to hear that

718
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,700
you know what it's not, it's not
the end of the game, is not the

719
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:06,810
end of your story.
There are other options out

720
00:34:06,820 --> 00:34:09,679
there and sometimes it's not
just you don't always take it so

721
00:34:09,690 --> 00:34:11,520
personally.
I certainly could have done with

722
00:34:11,530 --> 00:34:13,580
some of that advice earlier on
in the career.

723
00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:15,820
Don't take it all personally.
I mean, I was like one who put

724
00:34:15,830 --> 00:34:20,130
my hand up, you know, when they
said why are you all marketing

725
00:34:20,139 --> 00:34:23,199
black pudding?
That's I'd say because you said

726
00:34:23,210 --> 00:34:26,300
just to mark in pink and green
in our lessons but marking black

727
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:30,679
and maths and they said we
didn't and I'd be like I've got

728
00:34:30,690 --> 00:34:33,210
it written in my diary here.
A lot of staff meeting you said

729
00:34:33,219 --> 00:34:34,580
this.
Listen we didn't say that and

730
00:34:34,590 --> 00:34:36,620
I'd be like, but you did.
I get called to the office then

731
00:34:36,630 --> 00:34:39,080
you're arguing I'm like.
Yeah.

732
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,070
Just read it out by by meeting
notes you know and they were

733
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,780
just they would just say things
like we didn't say that like we

734
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:47,040
had facts training and I was
like why are we doing back

735
00:34:47,050 --> 00:34:49,900
training.
It's been a it's been debunked

736
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:53,969
and they were like, it hasn't
And I'm like, OK, so it's me

737
00:34:53,980 --> 00:34:56,170
that it's probably my fault that
while them up every time.

738
00:34:57,650 --> 00:35:01,750
But here's the thing, Rob, We we
need people to do that because

739
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,690
I've been in those staff rooms
as well previously where you sit

740
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:09,400
there and I think 89% of people
not because they don't want to

741
00:35:09,410 --> 00:35:10,700
rock.
I guess they don't rock the boat

742
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:12,090
rather.
And they don't want to be seen

743
00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:14,670
as the person to kind of say
something which we all know is

744
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,990
true.
You had that moment where you

745
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,370
like what you said there.
We're all sat in a room, 20 of

746
00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:21,350
us knowing something is true.
And we're being told literally

747
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,670
gaslighted in front of us as
professionals that know it's not

748
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,650
true.
And they know that nine out of

749
00:35:25,660 --> 00:35:27,090
10 people won't dare to say
anything.

750
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,370
And it's people like you and
people.

751
00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:31,910
I think what Hayden and I have
grown into a lot more being

752
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,550
confident and being able to say
no, here are the receipts.

753
00:35:35,610 --> 00:35:39,420
Like it's literally right here.
I I take great joy in finding an

754
00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:41,870
e-mail from six months ago.
And I will literally just go

755
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,310
through the chat.
If Hayden says something, does

756
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,560
it to me all the time, all the
time, he'll say ohh, I don't

757
00:35:46,570 --> 00:35:48,960
think I ever said that.
And I'll literally on messenger

758
00:35:48,970 --> 00:35:53,830
like OK, one second, I'm gonna
come and I'll find it from 2019

759
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,980
and actually you said that.
But you refuse.

760
00:35:56,990 --> 00:35:58,920
Too many pencils.
Can't get any more pencils.

761
00:35:58,930 --> 00:36:01,900
And I've been like, I've got
like 4 left in my classroom.

762
00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:06,270
Yeah, but we haven't got any
though, I'd say, right, OK, but

763
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,970
I've literally got off to write
with and then I take the books

764
00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:10,620
on a Friday and say here's my
books for this week.

765
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:12,790
You have a look through them,
not only working there and then,

766
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,170
like, yeah, but they're like
4000 pencils.

767
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:18,920
And I'm like, well, I must have
just about ��600.

768
00:36:18,930 --> 00:36:21,220
You could just bought 3 packs of
pencils, you know?

769
00:36:21,850 --> 00:36:26,020
It's just like that my my
favourite, my favourite analogy

770
00:36:26,030 --> 00:36:27,980
on the same sort of light of
that is the glue sticks.

771
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:30,900
Because obviously according to
teachers, there's a national

772
00:36:30,910 --> 00:36:33,520
shortage of glue sticks every
moment of every year.

773
00:36:33,780 --> 00:36:37,220
And it's constantly a meme isn't
it in the teaching world that no

774
00:36:37,230 --> 00:36:41,010
one has any glue sticks And I
just find it so funny when and

775
00:36:41,020 --> 00:36:46,000
not even just my own experiences
but reflect on everybody when

776
00:36:46,090 --> 00:36:49,970
start SLT say things like well
you've had your glue six that we

777
00:36:49,980 --> 00:36:53,310
can't get any more now until X
date and it's like my response

778
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,020
and my thoughts that is do you
want the books to look nice?

779
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:57,960
Because I'm not using these glue
sticks for me.

780
00:36:57,970 --> 00:36:59,540
Like, I promise you, I'm not
taking these.

781
00:37:00,060 --> 00:37:01,970
I don't even care really.
It's honest with you.

782
00:37:01,980 --> 00:37:04,530
But if we have a policy of these
books, look in a certain way.

783
00:37:04,610 --> 00:37:07,070
I need more glue sticks.
I just find it funny when it

784
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,370
gets thrown back on the teachers
as if it's there, like personal

785
00:37:09,380 --> 00:37:11,290
decision.
To use the resources, my thing

786
00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:14,510
was just be reasonable.
So they say like other school,

787
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,530
you had to answer planning it on
a Monday and then you had to

788
00:37:17,540 --> 00:37:20,790
hand in your annotated planning
again the following Monday with

789
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,150
your new planning.
So you have to have to be

790
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,470
planning Spice and they're like
there's no PPA this week.

791
00:37:25,740 --> 00:37:27,820
And I said but so you don't want
to handle the planning this

792
00:37:27,830 --> 00:37:28,970
week.
Oh yeah, we still want to hand

793
00:37:28,980 --> 00:37:31,370
in the planning.
Many people, yeah.

794
00:37:31,380 --> 00:37:33,140
So I'm not doing it and I just
want to do it.

795
00:37:33,150 --> 00:37:34,070
Yeah.
Say where is it?

796
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,340
I think it was a time.
So I.

797
00:37:37,350 --> 00:37:40,080
Think you need to be bolshy?
Sometimes I think you do.

798
00:37:40,090 --> 00:37:41,780
I really.
Do you know?

799
00:37:42,090 --> 00:37:45,150
They were, they say ohh, you're
not allowed to go to the dentist

800
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,170
in in in teaching time and I'd
say, well, Deputy Edward on

801
00:37:49,180 --> 00:37:51,780
Tuesday.
Ohh.

802
00:37:52,130 --> 00:37:54,360
It's.
Like, just speak faith.

803
00:37:54,370 --> 00:37:56,790
Everybody say you are allowed to
go or you're not allowed to go.

804
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,110
And if you do go, step into
head.

805
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,560
Don't tell everybody got a
dentist.

806
00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:04,170
Often the dentist.
Yeah, just the one.

807
00:38:04,180 --> 00:38:06,210
Is it?
If you're going to abuse your

808
00:38:06,220 --> 00:38:07,510
position, do it.
Quietly.

809
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,090
Nobody would bad eyelid if you
said I was on a CPD course.

810
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:15,400
I was working from home, so
let's do some data work

811
00:38:15,410 --> 00:38:18,030
violently but don't say don't
have to go dentist then come in

812
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,300
and say I was at the dentist.
The header comes in, they've had

813
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:28,460
a day off and they cover her car
and they say ohh, I've I was

814
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:32,750
really ill but you went.
I've got an interesting story

815
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:33,890
for this.
Reminds me of something that

816
00:38:33,900 --> 00:38:36,020
happened fairly recently, right?
And I just, I've never shared

817
00:38:36,030 --> 00:38:39,430
this, but it was very bizarre.
I had a a child come in who was

818
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,410
off the day before.
And I just, as always, I'm never

819
00:38:42,420 --> 00:38:44,140
like trying to catch them out.
I just said, oh, you're right.

820
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:45,690
Everything alright?
You know what was up?

821
00:38:45,700 --> 00:38:47,000
You know you weren't in
yesterday.

822
00:38:47,180 --> 00:38:49,200
Yeah.
She went.

823
00:38:49,290 --> 00:38:52,930
I went to a skate park.
Honestly recently and I was a

824
00:38:52,940 --> 00:38:56,180
bit sort of like OK, I wasn't
really expecting that.

825
00:38:56,190 --> 00:38:58,240
I said it was a school day
though.

826
00:38:58,310 --> 00:39:01,970
Why were you at a skate park?
Ohh my bro's birthday.

827
00:39:01,980 --> 00:39:05,960
We just went to the skate park.
OK, I left it there.

828
00:39:05,970 --> 00:39:08,180
I was thinking, I'm not gonna.
It's not the child's, you know,

829
00:39:08,190 --> 00:39:10,540
it's not their responsibility
really to do this.

830
00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:13,720
And so I spoke to the head and
and and they rang the parent

831
00:39:13,730 --> 00:39:15,520
just to catch, you know, just to
see what was going on.

832
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,270
And they were like, what?
No, he didn't.

833
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,410
He was poorly.
I don't know why he keeps doing

834
00:39:19,420 --> 00:39:21,860
this.
He keeps randomly lying to get

835
00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:24,560
me to make me feel awkward and
put me in this position.

836
00:39:24,570 --> 00:39:26,060
He absolutely didn't go to a
skate park.

837
00:39:26,070 --> 00:39:28,640
He was in bed all day.
He was at a skate park.

838
00:39:28,650 --> 00:39:30,100
The next day.
He was at the skate park.

839
00:39:30,110 --> 00:39:33,600
He was at the skate park.
The next day, the kid I when I

840
00:39:33,610 --> 00:39:36,040
questioned it, he was like,
yeah, I just would be funny to

841
00:39:36,050 --> 00:39:38,780
say that.
What you doing, man?

842
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:40,940
Like the opposite of how this
is.

843
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:42,600
Supposed he's that kid.
He's that kid.

844
00:39:42,610 --> 00:39:44,650
When he's older, he'll be going
to the dentist and making sure

845
00:39:44,660 --> 00:39:45,810
everyone knows about.
It like.

846
00:39:47,460 --> 00:39:51,040
Ohh, it made no sense.
Anyways, Rob, you're talking

847
00:39:51,050 --> 00:39:53,910
about literacy shed and I
remember, I don't know it must

848
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,100
be 8 years ago, nine years ago.
So it would have been near the

849
00:39:57,110 --> 00:40:00,580
sort of beginning of literacy.
Literacy shared I guess a couple

850
00:40:00,590 --> 00:40:04,570
of years in and I remember being
an NQT and which is a newly

851
00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:06,250
qualified teacher for those
listings.

852
00:40:06,260 --> 00:40:08,970
I'm terrible at not explaining
my acronyms and things.

853
00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:13,290
I was an NQT and I remember
coming across literacy shed and

854
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:16,070
thinking Oh my God this is
amazing because like you I

855
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,470
really like using visual
resources whether it's a picture

856
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,980
or a video even better and I
can't remember what video it was

857
00:40:21,990 --> 00:40:24,330
that I watched.
I think it was like a war

858
00:40:24,340 --> 00:40:28,210
related one, something to do
with paper like writing a letter

859
00:40:28,220 --> 00:40:30,710
and within the letter.
Turns into the war, something to

860
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:34,990
do with that and it was like as
an NQT it was at that point it

861
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,160
was the absolute best writing
I've ever got out of anyone, so

862
00:40:39,170 --> 00:40:41,790
I was really grateful for that.
But since then, obviously

863
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,460
Literacy Shed has evolved much
more and I was hoping you could

864
00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:48,760
just maybe give us a run down
for a start.

865
00:40:48,770 --> 00:40:51,680
We can dive into a bit more
later of like what has changed

866
00:40:51,690 --> 00:40:54,450
over the last decade, because
it's been just over a decade now

867
00:40:54,460 --> 00:40:57,290
as far as I'm aware since
Literacy Shed was born.

868
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,550
So it was born out of the fact
that YouTube was banned in our

869
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:02,900
schools.
Remember everything?

870
00:41:03,460 --> 00:41:08,190
Yeah, YouTube in every single
school that really.

871
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:11,050
And so I just wanted to place
what would.

872
00:41:11,130 --> 00:41:14,850
With the videos.
So I used to just find videos on

873
00:41:14,860 --> 00:41:18,460
YouTube, ask if I could.
Put them on to a website for

874
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:22,020
teaching and if they got back to
me and said yeah, I'd put them

875
00:41:22,030 --> 00:41:22,930
on.
If they got back to me and said

876
00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:26,240
no, I would have put them on.
I didn't get back to me, I put

877
00:41:26,250 --> 00:41:29,700
them on so.
I love that.

878
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,230
So I know people have come back
to me since I said ohh that's

879
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,320
brilliant websites.
But I came across here I found

880
00:41:37,330 --> 00:41:39,870
your e-mail for years later.
It's you know things like this.

881
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,060
So.
There are student videos.

882
00:41:42,070 --> 00:41:44,470
They're not for commercial
property anyway, so not really.

883
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,090
You don't really manage to just
promoting them to be honest with

884
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:49,530
a link and say here's the
YouTube link.

885
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:51,760
There's some brilliant stuff on
there really.

886
00:41:51,770 --> 00:41:53,720
Good.
I mean this serious.

887
00:41:54,450 --> 00:41:57,160
I think sometimes it's survived
that all to my taste because

888
00:41:57,170 --> 00:41:59,320
people send me videos like this
would be really good and I'm

889
00:41:59,330 --> 00:42:03,750
like don't think they like it.
It's crazy, isn't it?

890
00:42:04,540 --> 00:42:06,310
So I think it's about 400 on
there.

891
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:12,350
We're getting about two million
unique users a year and as a

892
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,440
teacher it's quite nice to get
about, depending on the mods,

893
00:42:15,450 --> 00:42:18,580
between 5:00 and ��600 a month
and talk more wages.

894
00:42:18,620 --> 00:42:20,220
So it was quite nice.
That's it.

895
00:42:20,260 --> 00:42:22,510
And that's all I thought we'd
ever be, to be honest.

896
00:42:24,270 --> 00:42:28,560
And then?
Started talking about asking

897
00:42:28,570 --> 00:42:31,240
questions with the films.
You know what people say, how to

898
00:42:31,250 --> 00:42:33,020
use it.
And I'd say, well, I'll stop it

899
00:42:33,530 --> 00:42:36,200
10 seconds and say who's this?
Why is it a shadow?

900
00:42:36,210 --> 00:42:37,880
Why are they not showing their
face yet?

901
00:42:38,250 --> 00:42:43,120
And then I'd say.
Why is the sky orange?

902
00:42:43,250 --> 00:42:46,070
You know, questions like this
electronic says it's morning,

903
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,520
it's polluted and it'd be making
these and every Oz and every

904
00:42:49,530 --> 00:42:53,120
answer I get, I say yeah, it
could be, it could be.

905
00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:55,540
So imagine that story.
Now who do you think that person

906
00:42:55,550 --> 00:42:57,480
is?
And let's say I think it's

907
00:42:58,140 --> 00:43:01,260
somebody came back from the war
and it's early in the morning.

908
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:03,580
Right.
That's why that down.

909
00:43:03,590 --> 00:43:05,780
How would we write that down And
we're just write from it.

910
00:43:05,790 --> 00:43:09,140
And so people said, well what
what questions do we ask?

911
00:43:09,150 --> 00:43:11,700
So I started writing them, but
then it just took up more and

912
00:43:11,710 --> 00:43:15,850
more of my time.
So I thought I should charge for

913
00:43:15,860 --> 00:43:17,630
this because my time I should
charge for it.

914
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,650
Really.
Yeah, started so I think it was

915
00:43:19,660 --> 00:43:25,170
��2.49 for. 10 films questions or
something.

916
00:43:25,180 --> 00:43:28,000
We had three packs of them and
they just started making money,

917
00:43:28,010 --> 00:43:34,480
but it became just a real hassle
to then get a PayPal ��2.49, send

918
00:43:34,490 --> 00:43:37,350
them a file to the e-mail that
was under now there was a

919
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,010
hundred a day or whatever.
So, so that just that just

920
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,220
happened for.
Two years.

921
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:47,900
I think it was just, it was just
that.

922
00:43:48,580 --> 00:43:51,770
And then?
People started talking about

923
00:43:51,780 --> 00:43:54,440
this CPD.
I don't see the head teacher

924
00:43:54,450 --> 00:43:57,540
and, he said.
You could go down to three days

925
00:43:57,550 --> 00:44:00,480
a week if you wanted and I was
like, well, that's I don't want

926
00:44:00,490 --> 00:44:02,000
to go.
I was really thinking I could do

927
00:44:02,010 --> 00:44:04,260
a couple of after school
sessions and try to get me down

928
00:44:04,270 --> 00:44:06,240
to three days, three days a
week.

929
00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:10,970
He said.
It's a it's 9000, your salary.

930
00:44:10,980 --> 00:44:11,930
I was.
I think I was.

931
00:44:13,930 --> 00:44:18,300
M6 with TLR's for
responsibilities, he said.

932
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:20,660
You lose 9.
Half I've worked it out for.

933
00:44:20,670 --> 00:44:22,870
You lose ��9000 a year.
That's the kid.

934
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,670
I would have thought that ages
ago, 2-3, just 2-3 days.

935
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,330
Ohh yeah so I said right.
Very quickly Rob, really

936
00:44:31,340 --> 00:44:33,770
quickly, sorry cause it's just
too uncanny for me not to

937
00:44:33,780 --> 00:44:36,750
mention it because that is
exactly what we did and we had

938
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,020
the exact same thought train as
you.

939
00:44:38,030 --> 00:44:39,770
And I just want to say that for
the listeners and people out

940
00:44:39,780 --> 00:44:42,310
there because you said something
which so many people have said

941
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,320
to me when I explained to them
the money situation because of

942
00:44:45,330 --> 00:44:47,790
the way the tax works and the
tax, you know the tax allowance

943
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,230
at the start of your, you don't
lose that much money, do you,

944
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:52,890
from going to two days down and
and the transformation in like

945
00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:55,490
well-being and ability to do
something else was crazy.

946
00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:57,510
So you can just make money doing
something else.

947
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,070
I mean, I don't mean make 9
grand a year, but I know people

948
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,360
that do pottery or they do water
deep, pursue passion that gets

949
00:45:05,370 --> 00:45:07,550
them a little bit.
Morning and they just start lose

950
00:45:07,740 --> 00:45:09,230
as much as they think they would
have done.

951
00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:12,240
You know, they work at a school
three days a week and they work

952
00:45:12,250 --> 00:45:16,280
in a cafe for one day a week or.
Do tutoring for a couple of

953
00:45:16,290 --> 00:45:17,430
days.
Ohh nights.

954
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,030
Almost three days and they make
up most of it, if not all of it.

955
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:23,040
So I did it.
We.

956
00:45:23,710 --> 00:45:27,000
This was 2013.
I had some facts about.

957
00:45:28,750 --> 00:45:33,780
I have some facts about Edgar
Twitter back in 2014, but today

958
00:45:34,130 --> 00:45:35,980
a new shredder arrived at the
office.

959
00:45:37,310 --> 00:45:38,890
Read about every Twitter I've
shredded.

960
00:45:39,140 --> 00:45:41,530
Already.
That's brilliant.

961
00:45:42,060 --> 00:45:45,980
Is that a metaphor that no.
And all it was was NFL would

962
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:50,690
really something that in 2012 it
was half a billion tweets a day

963
00:45:50,780 --> 00:45:55,270
on Twitter.
About four and a half million

964
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,010
were education tweets.
That was in 2012, and they had

965
00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:03,100
at the time.
Half the number of followers

966
00:46:03,110 --> 00:46:05,980
we've got now.
So in two years, 2042 years,

967
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:09,000
they've got, I think it was
20,000 followers and now they've

968
00:46:09,010 --> 00:46:13,280
got like 40,000 followers, which
shows that at the time in 12/13

969
00:46:13,290 --> 00:46:16,400
when I was trying to build an
audience and people find it

970
00:46:16,410 --> 00:46:17,610
really hard to build a sort of
audience.

971
00:46:17,620 --> 00:46:22,720
Now I think that's why because
there's 4,000,000 users a day.

972
00:46:22,730 --> 00:46:25,050
Used to work out for every 3
tweets I've got a new follower.

973
00:46:25,690 --> 00:46:28,590
In the early days, it's nothing
like that because it's such a

974
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,770
big platform now.
I mean, it was people were

975
00:46:30,780 --> 00:46:34,070
talking about it dying off at
that .201415.

976
00:46:34,210 --> 00:46:36,970
Facebook's gonna kill, you know,
Twitter.

977
00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:38,580
Twitter is not going to be
around anymore.

978
00:46:38,590 --> 00:46:39,840
And it just grew and grew and
grew.

979
00:46:39,850 --> 00:46:42,890
So I think it's much trickier to
build though.

980
00:46:44,350 --> 00:46:48,010
What's your platform now?
I think I've got 43,000

981
00:46:48,020 --> 00:46:52,390
followers on Reggie Rob and I've
had that for years now. 40 ish

982
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,950
4142.
Yeah, it's just not growing

983
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,270
because I think people don't
follow unless you're kind of

984
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,580
viral post.
You just don't get follows

985
00:47:01,590 --> 00:47:03,490
anymore.
I've got 15,000 followers

986
00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:06,340
overnight once.
And it was a rocket ship prompt

987
00:47:06,350 --> 00:47:09,980
and it was a picture of a Raven
on a lamppost, like with some

988
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:12,140
smoke around it.
And I woke up in the morning

989
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:14,800
with 15,000 new followers and
they were all like pretty

990
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:17,770
genuine followers as well,
because that is what happened in

991
00:47:17,780 --> 00:47:20,620
the day.
Now people curate the creator,

992
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:24,250
they don't wanna post a lot of
adverts on there, but let's just

993
00:47:24,260 --> 00:47:27,400
share and know that people go,
I'm not following him, He posts

994
00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:29,600
lots of adverts.
Hmm.

995
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,610
It's just not the same anymore.
I think the way the algorithm

996
00:47:33,620 --> 00:47:36,370
works now of like with most
social media has definitely

997
00:47:36,430 --> 00:47:40,070
killed off that like organic
idea of like following and

998
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,130
liking someone on social media.
I think we've even noticed it

999
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:45,770
with our tutoring business a
couple of years ago.

1000
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,110
Facebook was like our absolute
main Ave of connecting with new

1001
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:53,070
customers essentially.
And our Facebook followers were

1002
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,670
going up and up and up like
quite rapidly.

1003
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,930
Every day we'd get like 1020 new
people and they were genuinely

1004
00:47:57,940 --> 00:48:00,250
interested in the content we
were putting out.

1005
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:05,110
And I would say the last two
years that number barely moves

1006
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,480
anymore and despite having the
same sort of content and things

1007
00:48:07,490 --> 00:48:08,790
because people just don't want
to follow.

1008
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,080
And I think it's because and I
do it because.

1009
00:48:12,270 --> 00:48:14,940
There are so many algorithms now
that say, oh, we'll just show

1010
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:17,160
you things that you're like, you
don't need to follow anyone

1011
00:48:17,170 --> 00:48:19,420
these days, because if you look
at their content once, we'll

1012
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:22,920
just, we'll just put it on your
page anyway, even if you haven't

1013
00:48:22,930 --> 00:48:25,360
followed them and liked them.
So it's definitely so much

1014
00:48:25,370 --> 00:48:28,060
harder now to build up a genuine
audience in that way.

1015
00:48:28,110 --> 00:48:31,920
Yeah, it's really hard at it.
I always try and find people.

1016
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:34,490
What's?
What's changed?

1017
00:48:34,500 --> 00:48:35,410
What's changed?
What's a?

1018
00:48:35,420 --> 00:48:37,250
You know what I'm like.
I type in Jane.

1019
00:48:37,260 --> 00:48:39,810
It's not got the word jade in
it, so it's not that.

1020
00:48:39,820 --> 00:48:41,850
Is it?
Was it missing something?

1021
00:48:41,900 --> 00:48:43,270
Was it?
Is she under?

1022
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,700
And I just can't find them.
Yeah.

1023
00:48:45,740 --> 00:48:48,740
Yeah, scroll through messages,
try and find them although they

1024
00:48:48,750 --> 00:48:51,020
are like and then refollow them.
e-mail them.

1025
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:53,490
What is your Twitter handle?
I can't find you like we've been

1026
00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:55,010
friends for 20 years or
whatever.

1027
00:48:57,330 --> 00:48:59,230
So.
I was talking.

1028
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:02,150
About on on Twitter sorry really
quickly on Twitter because I

1029
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,140
wanna we we went on to Twitter
when we first started teaching

1030
00:49:05,150 --> 00:49:08,570
so we first started teaching
about 2015, 2014, 2015 I

1031
00:49:08,580 --> 00:49:12,570
remember we both tried Twitter
and we kind of got a bit into it

1032
00:49:12,580 --> 00:49:15,670
but it was like it was OK but
you have to kind of like you

1033
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,680
said it was easy to build a
following if you like put

1034
00:49:17,690 --> 00:49:19,570
yourself put your mind into it
and stuff but we didn't really

1035
00:49:19,580 --> 00:49:21,070
dip dip our toes that much into
it.

1036
00:49:21,210 --> 00:49:23,350
We recently came to Twitter like
a couple of months ago just

1037
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,550
where we starting the podcast
and we're like oh let's let's

1038
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,270
link up with people and let's
see who's out there And I was

1039
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,690
shocked to watch see Twitter
that the main timeline in

1040
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:35,370
Twitter now isn't even who you
follow there's a brand new

1041
00:49:35,380 --> 00:49:38,550
timeline which you automatically
go to which is literally just

1042
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,590
algorithmic tweets that Twitter
thinks you want to.

1043
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,650
And I didn't know for the first
week that I was looking at a

1044
00:49:44,660 --> 00:49:46,890
feed which didn't have my
followers in it.

1045
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,250
And I was thinking, I've, I've
not followed this.

1046
00:49:49,260 --> 00:49:51,520
I mean, I've clicked one and
this person keeps coming up and

1047
00:49:51,530 --> 00:49:52,930
there's nothing to do with
education.

1048
00:49:52,940 --> 00:49:55,510
It was like some kind of, you
know, this guy was doing a walk

1049
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,760
for a charity or something and
and obviously clicked on it once

1050
00:49:57,770 --> 00:50:00,070
to see what he was doing.
And every day at the top of my

1051
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,930
feed was this guy.
And I was like, wait, I'm trying

1052
00:50:01,940 --> 00:50:03,430
to build up an education thing
here.

1053
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,170
And I'm ending up watching these
memes that Twitter now thinks I

1054
00:50:06,180 --> 00:50:08,150
spend my time looking at, which
clearly I have.

1055
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,790
So it's so true.
It's completely transformed.

1056
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,050
And we're at the situation.
We're trying to just widen our

1057
00:50:15,060 --> 00:50:16,690
audience.
And it is hard.

1058
00:50:16,700 --> 00:50:20,170
It is certainly hard.
So that that idea of, do you

1059
00:50:20,180 --> 00:50:22,660
think that literally, literally
shared really benefited from

1060
00:50:22,670 --> 00:50:23,340
those?
Three days.

1061
00:50:23,350 --> 00:50:25,020
Did that help?
You grow massively and I

1062
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:29,860
remember I was, this is what I
was talking about CPD and CPD is

1063
00:50:29,870 --> 00:50:32,720
to be really expensive for
schools.

1064
00:50:32,730 --> 00:50:35,540
It was like it's just cost a
fortune I think.

1065
00:50:35,550 --> 00:50:38,640
And then I think we were sort of
pioneers in bringing the price

1066
00:50:38,650 --> 00:50:41,380
down.
So at Lee Lee Parkinson and I,

1067
00:50:41,470 --> 00:50:45,940
before he was ICT, Mr Pay, this
was we were on Twitter but

1068
00:50:45,950 --> 00:50:49,650
introduced by a mutual friend.
And.

1069
00:50:50,690 --> 00:50:52,160
We said let's do it to half a
day.

1070
00:50:52,170 --> 00:50:56,000
So you do the apps and stuff is
famous for and I'll do film and

1071
00:50:56,010 --> 00:50:57,260
writing.
They've got sort of married

1072
00:50:57,270 --> 00:51:00,520
together so he did actually
write it added and we just

1073
00:51:00,810 --> 00:51:02,040
didn't have a website at that
point.

1074
00:51:02,050 --> 00:51:05,180
We had lists in shared but just
a free site didn't even mention.

1075
00:51:07,310 --> 00:51:10,280
It didn't really mention a CPD,
et cetera.

1076
00:51:10,980 --> 00:51:13,310
I would have started selling
tickets on on Twitter.

1077
00:51:13,380 --> 00:51:16,090
We got a date, we phoned up a
Old Trafford cricket ground,

1078
00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:19,490
Lancashire cricket ground,
beautiful room and they were

1079
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:22,790
like, well I think it's 35, put
her head and you need ��500

1080
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,070
deposit or something and we were
like we haven't got the money

1081
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,620
for deposit so we started
selling tickets and I hope that

1082
00:51:27,630 --> 00:51:31,210
we get to 500 pound.
Ohh tickets.

1083
00:51:31,540 --> 00:51:35,440
This was in 2013.
I think we sold 6 or 10 years.

1084
00:51:35,450 --> 00:51:41,200
We sold tickets for ��185 each.
And we got 50 people rocked up

1085
00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:44,780
on the day.
As need all that day Rich

1086
00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:50,520
Farrow, you know at Mr Farrow at
Gas Needles there and yeah

1087
00:51:50,570 --> 00:51:53,820
there's loads of like famous
Twitter people though as well

1088
00:51:54,050 --> 00:51:57,420
and.
So yeah, we made like 10 grand

1089
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:59,800
each out there. 1st.
Ohh.

1090
00:52:01,470 --> 00:52:03,370
We'll do, we'll we'll do this
again, yeah.

1091
00:52:03,380 --> 00:52:06,410
We're back to the school, I said
to the head teacher.

1092
00:52:08,450 --> 00:52:11,220
He was great head teacher by the
way, he said.

1093
00:52:11,350 --> 00:52:14,720
I do more of those days.
He said yeah, it's a good one to

1094
00:52:14,730 --> 00:52:16,440
turn.
If you want to do 1A term, you

1095
00:52:16,450 --> 00:52:19,570
can just give a donation to the
school for the price of the

1096
00:52:19,580 --> 00:52:22,300
supply.
And he said I'm still paying

1097
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,720
salary because it's really
tricky just to get it off of

1098
00:52:24,730 --> 00:52:26,590
that.
So I had to pay at the tip money

1099
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,360
to to him, to the school.
Wow, Not a bad trade off.

1100
00:52:30,370 --> 00:52:31,640
Not a bad trade off.
Here's a set of.

1101
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,930
Yeah, and everyone loved it.
Rob, there's been a donation to

1102
00:52:36,940 --> 00:52:38,370
the school of 10 grand.
Is that?

1103
00:52:38,420 --> 00:52:39,790
Ohh.
Sorry mate, yeah, sorry, I just

1104
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,650
didn't mean to put those extra
zeros on there.

1105
00:52:42,140 --> 00:52:44,170
Well, I mean the figures would
never made that.

1106
00:52:44,180 --> 00:52:45,630
I never made that much money
ever again.

1107
00:52:47,180 --> 00:52:49,020
All right.
The first one, you would become

1108
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:52,540
sort of Twitter famous almost
and then everyone had seen it.

1109
00:52:52,590 --> 00:52:58,740
So you know we've still got 100
South Africa 8090.

1110
00:52:59,210 --> 00:53:03,740
I think today though I'd
struggle to get 50 and I think

1111
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:07,740
it's just because people can't
afford it. 185 point plus the

1112
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:11,070
price of supply was something
every school could do two or

1113
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,500
three times a week.
Now they just haven't got a nice

1114
00:53:14,510 --> 00:53:15,740
day.
They just can't do it.

1115
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:19,130
It's supply agencies have
changed, they cost you a fortune

1116
00:53:19,290 --> 00:53:22,480
and this time we've got they
just can't afford ��180.

1117
00:53:23,380 --> 00:53:25,880
But a teacher to go out on two
teachers.

1118
00:53:25,890 --> 00:53:29,290
I think last time I tried to do
all it was 100 and it would do

1119
00:53:29,300 --> 00:53:32,610
it ��120.00 or two for 100 or
something crazy.

1120
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:34,770
It's definitely felt that
squeeze in schools.

1121
00:53:34,780 --> 00:53:37,210
I can just say from personal
experience, I do feel like those

1122
00:53:37,220 --> 00:53:40,850
opportunities to do that have
just been have been squeezed

1123
00:53:40,860 --> 00:53:45,420
over the years and it's just
budgets, but they're just not as

1124
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:47,820
forgiving as they once were for
those sorts of opportunities

1125
00:53:47,830 --> 00:53:50,800
which are objectively amazing
opportunities that we so should

1126
00:53:50,810 --> 00:53:52,700
be doing.
Otherwise we're just.

1127
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,150
It gave us a bit of an excuse in
school from a lot I think to

1128
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,330
kind of be like, well, you know,
COVID, we can't do it, we can't

1129
00:53:59,340 --> 00:54:02,070
do it anymore either.
And I think like a lot of people

1130
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,850
realised actually, you know,
with the energy bills going up

1131
00:54:04,860 --> 00:54:07,150
and stuff, there's there's not
been that money that's come back

1132
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:08,430
in.
And I think it's been very easy

1133
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:09,520
for a lot of schools to kind of
just.

1134
00:54:10,330 --> 00:54:12,380
You know, just, you know, well
we're going to buy into this

1135
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:15,120
scheme and hopefully this scheme
self-explanatory and you can we

1136
00:54:15,130 --> 00:54:17,900
can rely on staff in school to
look at it in their own time and

1137
00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:20,360
then kind of deliver that
themselves at a much lower

1138
00:54:20,370 --> 00:54:22,950
quality because they're not the
people who designed the things

1139
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,680
are actually training them.
So there's definitely been that.

1140
00:54:26,730 --> 00:54:29,140
I think one thing, Rob, we
wanted to talk to you about

1141
00:54:29,150 --> 00:54:31,710
because like you said, it sounds
like you're passionate for that.

1142
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:34,030
That idea of writing in terms of
that's how it all started with

1143
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,740
the prompts and really engaging
the children to want to write.

1144
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:40,280
Because there's been a lot of
things lately and I think it's

1145
00:54:40,290 --> 00:54:41,920
to do with the curriculum.
And I'm wondering what your

1146
00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:45,740
opinion is on this because I
think the, the, the excitement

1147
00:54:45,810 --> 00:54:49,740
and the quality of engagement
with writing has been in steady

1148
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:51,920
decline in almost the same way
as being.

1149
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,920
As as as teachers have become
more and more prescriptive and I

1150
00:54:54,930 --> 00:54:58,500
find that as a teacher I spend
most of my time worrying that

1151
00:54:58,550 --> 00:55:00,860
children have got a fronted
adverbial and a prepositional

1152
00:55:00,870 --> 00:55:03,640
phrase and are mixing their very
sentences with certain

1153
00:55:03,650 --> 00:55:06,380
conjunctions.
And I'm not inspiring these

1154
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:08,610
children through choice to
create really good pieces of

1155
00:55:08,620 --> 00:55:10,380
writing.
And I'm wondering what you think

1156
00:55:10,390 --> 00:55:14,220
the the kind of your opinion on
the curriculum and its direct

1157
00:55:14,230 --> 00:55:18,750
impact on that for children.
Mr Obviously there's too much

1158
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:23,320
grammar too soon.
But I remember being in a HMI

1159
00:55:23,330 --> 00:55:26,780
meeting years ago when the
grammar curriculum came out.

1160
00:55:26,910 --> 00:55:29,150
And there's two things I would
remember.

1161
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,760
One thing was that the head of
HR at the time, I can't think of

1162
00:55:32,770 --> 00:55:37,640
a name, I said that she would
enjoy watching me read with a

1163
00:55:37,870 --> 00:55:39,890
group of children for half an
hour.

1164
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,200
And this talk.
I listen to me reading clap at

1165
00:55:42,210 --> 00:55:44,460
the end when we finish.
And I went downstairs and said

1166
00:55:44,470 --> 00:55:48,460
to ask the same questions the
HMI earlier downstairs.

1167
00:55:48,870 --> 00:55:51,100
And they said, Oh no, you'd have
to be asking questions.

1168
00:55:51,170 --> 00:55:54,200
You'd have to be interrogated
children about what they've

1169
00:55:54,210 --> 00:55:56,080
heard read.
And I said to them and I said to

1170
00:55:56,090 --> 00:55:58,310
the HDMI, this is my contrary
coming out again.

1171
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,780
I said to the I said, well, you
need to go downstairs and tell

1172
00:56:01,790 --> 00:56:04,270
the other HDMI officers.
You've just told me something

1173
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,500
different.
And so she was like, you

1174
00:56:07,510 --> 00:56:09,140
remember that?
That was one thing that was

1175
00:56:09,150 --> 00:56:10,500
there.
And then the other thing was the

1176
00:56:10,510 --> 00:56:12,510
grammar.
There was somebody had been

1177
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,870
involved in writing the grammar
appendix, which I've always got

1178
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:16,680
on my desk, but they have been
shredded.

1179
00:56:18,590 --> 00:56:20,370
This news, what else is in this
shredder?

1180
00:56:20,380 --> 00:56:23,620
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1181
00:56:23,630 --> 00:56:26,580
Five ohh, yeah.
For your Michael end up in

1182
00:56:26,590 --> 00:56:29,700
there?
Smoking.

1183
00:56:31,940 --> 00:56:34,480
And.
He said.

1184
00:56:36,030 --> 00:56:37,630
It was never supposed to go out
like that.

1185
00:56:37,690 --> 00:56:39,960
That's what he said.
It was never supposed to be used

1186
00:56:39,970 --> 00:56:41,480
as it is.
It was never supposed to be a

1187
00:56:41,490 --> 00:56:44,000
full curriculum.
It was never like fully signed

1188
00:56:44,010 --> 00:56:47,700
off by the people who wrote it
and it was supposed to have a

1189
00:56:47,710 --> 00:56:51,340
just transition to you.
It's a key stage 3 because of it

1190
00:56:51,350 --> 00:56:53,660
because the funding ran out.
I think I can't remember now.

1191
00:56:53,730 --> 00:56:55,650
Please nobody quote me on this
is listening.

1192
00:56:55,790 --> 00:56:58,710
They never actually enmeshed it
into the year 7 and eight-year.

1193
00:56:58,720 --> 00:56:59,860
Right.
So some of that stuff that would

1194
00:56:59,870 --> 00:57:02,290
have moved into year seven-year
eight and ended up stuck on the

1195
00:57:02,300 --> 00:57:05,100
end of year six because it would
that would explain.

1196
00:57:05,110 --> 00:57:07,980
So never had that chance to be
drafted into the older year

1197
00:57:07,990 --> 00:57:09,600
groups.
Well that'll do.

1198
00:57:10,020 --> 00:57:12,380
They put it together and it out
so.

1199
00:57:13,380 --> 00:57:14,580
Yeah, just see what you don't
need.

1200
00:57:14,590 --> 00:57:17,340
And there's just so much that
actually it's writing you don't

1201
00:57:17,350 --> 00:57:19,680
need.
Writers manage without knowing

1202
00:57:19,690 --> 00:57:22,260
these things.
Writers manage without putting

1203
00:57:22,270 --> 00:57:25,520
its colons and semicolons.
Who hated colons?

1204
00:57:25,530 --> 00:57:28,520
Hemingway, I think, was it.
But Oh yeah.

1205
00:57:28,530 --> 00:57:31,680
Yeah, you don't need to, but
also what I find is with the

1206
00:57:31,690 --> 00:57:35,260
curriculum, right?
It's fine, it's fine, but.

1207
00:57:36,540 --> 00:57:39,080
As of today, which I've observed
teacher before where they they

1208
00:57:39,090 --> 00:57:42,560
just say right today we're
learning about active and

1209
00:57:42,570 --> 00:57:44,740
passive verbs.
I don't know.

1210
00:57:45,140 --> 00:57:46,860
Is that what you're learning?
You're writing lesson, you're

1211
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:50,270
learning and the writer
substances the I'm not gonna say

1212
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,550
which is which.
They'll say like either the cat

1213
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,690
was kicked by the person, the
person passive or whatever,

1214
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,060
passive versus they're just
random sensors because why is

1215
00:58:01,070 --> 00:58:07,740
this person kicking a cat cat.
The cat was put in the bin, you

1216
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:09,400
know you're like.
It's Cat Zuma.

1217
00:58:09,470 --> 00:58:11,800
Yeah, what?
Straight in the shredder?

1218
00:58:11,810 --> 00:58:14,640
Where's the inspiration?
Yeah.

1219
00:58:14,650 --> 00:58:15,990
Is it.
So the kids are like this is

1220
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,060
well this is really boring.
But then read them the opening

1221
00:58:20,070 --> 00:58:23,880
to Wild Boy by Rob Lloyd Jones
and it's talked about the fog

1222
00:58:23,890 --> 00:58:27,610
creeping through the city.
You know the city was smothered

1223
00:58:27,620 --> 00:58:30,660
back, smothered by the fog.
Well then at that point when you

1224
00:58:30,670 --> 00:58:33,880
go right we're going to describe
this fog as a creature.

1225
00:58:33,890 --> 00:58:37,730
So it's a it's a similar it's
metaphor this fog is engulfing

1226
00:58:37,740 --> 00:58:40,060
the city.
When you'll say look at that

1227
00:58:40,070 --> 00:58:43,900
sentence he says the fog
smothered the city, the city,

1228
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:45,600
the houses were smothered by the
fog.

1229
00:58:45,610 --> 00:58:48,770
Why do you think that?
The author Rob Lloyd Jones.

1230
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,230
It's part there.
The city was smothered by the

1231
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,870
fog and here is spot fog was
smothering the city.

1232
00:58:53,940 --> 00:58:56,610
There's a perfect example of
someone who's out doing passive

1233
00:58:56,620 --> 00:58:59,560
voice in a piece of writing and
the kids are going this is the

1234
00:58:59,570 --> 00:59:01,850
best piece of writing I've ever.
They are best opening to story

1235
00:59:01,860 --> 00:59:03,110
ever.
And you say, well we could write

1236
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:03,430
that.
Cool.

1237
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,370
We how could we write it?
You know.

1238
00:59:05,380 --> 00:59:08,330
And this is the active, this has
this effect and this is the

1239
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:10,630
passive, this has this effect.
Brilliant.

1240
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,040
And then move on.
Yeah, that's right.

1241
00:59:14,050 --> 00:59:16,340
Let's quickly paragraph.
Let's have some weather coming

1242
00:59:16,350 --> 00:59:17,160
in.
It could be clouds.

1243
00:59:17,170 --> 00:59:18,660
It could be forget, could be
rain.

1244
00:59:18,990 --> 00:59:21,100
Try and make it active.
Try and make it passive.

1245
00:59:21,190 --> 00:59:23,040
Here's an example on the board,
Right.

1246
00:59:23,050 --> 00:59:24,320
There we go, Grandma.
Done.

1247
00:59:24,690 --> 00:59:28,180
That's obviously it's not done,
but it's done for that section.

1248
00:59:28,250 --> 00:59:30,580
And then tomorrow we're doing
something else to buy.

1249
00:59:30,590 --> 00:59:32,900
The new character enters to buy
into the room.

1250
00:59:33,090 --> 00:59:35,480
The room was entered by the boy.
One of them sounds rubbish,

1251
00:59:35,490 --> 00:59:37,270
isn't it?
Who says the room was entered by

1252
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,390
the boy?
That's an example of when we

1253
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:41,010
shouldn't really use passive
voice.

1254
00:59:43,330 --> 00:59:47,920
Let's use active for data.
That is how you should teach

1255
00:59:47,930 --> 00:59:50,540
grammar.
With very few exceptions.

1256
00:59:50,550 --> 00:59:53,460
Where you go.
Nobody really understands this

1257
00:59:53,650 --> 00:59:55,270
and that.
As a teacher, I don't understand

1258
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,320
it either, so we're gonna do 1/2
an hour on it.

1259
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:00,920
Why do you have your lessons?
If it comes up in the grammar

1260
01:00:00,930 --> 01:00:04,210
test, we're all screwed, but the
rest of it should be taught

1261
01:00:04,220 --> 01:00:07,300
through.
That you're reading and you're

1262
01:00:07,310 --> 01:00:10,010
writing, you know, but you're
doing something really creative

1263
01:00:10,020 --> 01:00:13,590
in that writing, like you're
looking at Frank Cottrell Boyce

1264
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,090
they've opened Frank Cottrell
Boyce's Framed when he described

1265
01:00:16,100 --> 01:00:20,010
as a whole town as grey.
So I thought if you know it says

1266
01:00:20,020 --> 01:00:25,030
ohh everything is slate slate
walls slate school slight gates.

1267
01:00:25,100 --> 01:00:28,270
If we we've got like doorstep
and all this and the whole town

1268
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,120
is grey apart from the Elvis
mural that's what he says apart

1269
01:00:32,130 --> 01:00:34,750
from the Elvis mural of the cars
and that's the end of the

1270
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:36,390
opening like the end of the
prologue.

1271
01:00:36,620 --> 01:00:39,530
So I said like this is a great
way of writing a setting using

1272
01:00:39,540 --> 01:00:41,780
colour.
Let's look at how the grammar

1273
01:00:41,790 --> 01:00:46,260
we're uses like.
Gosh report, isn't it?

1274
01:00:46,310 --> 01:00:48,540
So I said look, why does he use
a dash for a pause though.

1275
01:00:48,550 --> 01:00:50,060
Why have we got this big dash
here?

1276
01:00:50,130 --> 01:00:51,380
We could do that with our
writing.

1277
01:00:51,810 --> 01:00:54,360
Ohh, they've done talk dashes,
so.

1278
01:00:54,370 --> 01:00:55,470
That is, that is the way, isn't
it?

1279
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,900
That's the way to teach
variation, I think, to children

1280
01:00:58,030 --> 01:01:03,130
in their writing.
It's not why we all fall into

1281
01:01:03,140 --> 01:01:05,720
this trap, which is we're going
to create variation in our

1282
01:01:05,730 --> 01:01:07,680
writing because today you're
going to use semicolons, and

1283
01:01:07,690 --> 01:01:10,740
tomorrow you're going to use
dashes, and then your writing is

1284
01:01:10,750 --> 01:01:12,460
going to be varied.
And I think that grant

1285
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:15,900
checklist, it's that looming
pressure, the grammar tests, can

1286
01:01:15,910 --> 01:01:17,570
we stop thinking about the
grammar test?

1287
01:01:17,610 --> 01:01:19,710
We need to be thinking about
writing and reading what you're

1288
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:21,800
saying.
Well, I mean, I've got no

1289
01:01:21,810 --> 01:01:23,420
problem.
Have we did it.

1290
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:26,140
None of the none of the kids put
it in so.

1291
01:01:26,490 --> 01:01:29,420
That is a thing where I think
sometimes success.

1292
01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:30,670
Right.
Here we say, I'm sure that if

1293
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,940
you want to be successful, you
could do this.

1294
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,220
And then they choose not to put
it in and then you can't really

1295
01:01:35,230 --> 01:01:37,200
see they've done it or not.
I'll come back to that in a

1296
01:01:37,210 --> 01:01:39,640
second.
But if children haven't got

1297
01:01:39,650 --> 01:01:40,340
something.
Yeah.

1298
01:01:40,350 --> 01:01:42,380
Do a 5 minute refresher.
Do 10 minutes.

1299
01:01:42,390 --> 01:01:43,640
At the beginning of lesson,
where you going?

1300
01:01:43,650 --> 01:01:45,240
Through a PowerPoint.
Is this active?

1301
01:01:45,250 --> 01:01:46,300
Yes.
Is this passive?

1302
01:01:46,310 --> 01:01:47,630
Yes.
Is that common in the right

1303
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:48,160
place?
Yes.

1304
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:49,640
Is that in the right place?
No.

1305
01:01:50,070 --> 01:01:51,080
Whiteboard.
Show me.

1306
01:01:51,150 --> 01:01:52,060
Right. 10 minutes.
Done.

1307
01:01:52,070 --> 01:01:53,460
Let's get on with our reading
and writing.

1308
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:58,040
No, for 40 minutes or 50 minutes
or part of a carousel.

1309
01:01:58,650 --> 01:02:01,500
But something that I like to
practise grammar with is, is

1310
01:02:01,570 --> 01:02:04,620
slow writing, which is a David
Dido invention.

1311
01:02:05,290 --> 01:02:08,730
Where you say in this sentence
you must use a 5 words.

1312
01:02:08,740 --> 01:02:12,400
In this sentence you must use.
You know.

1313
01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:18,930
A word with USTON suffix so.
Yeah, I've used a bit of that

1314
01:02:18,940 --> 01:02:21,470
before.
I bet I remember.

1315
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,490
People just argued about that
saying, oh, you're stifling

1316
01:02:24,500 --> 01:02:26,100
creativity and it's the
opposite.

1317
01:02:26,110 --> 01:02:29,110
You actually bought games.
You know you it's the opposite

1318
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:32,510
of stifling because if you say
to a child in this sense, in the

1319
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:36,320
second sentence you must use a
similar, you must use Autopia,

1320
01:02:36,660 --> 01:02:38,750
They've they've got to be
creative with what they were

1321
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:40,520
going to write.
You know if you said to write

1322
01:02:40,530 --> 01:02:43,050
with the story of Little Red
Riding Hood, they go Once Upon a

1323
01:02:43,060 --> 01:02:46,580
time there was a little girl and
she wore a red hot, but she

1324
01:02:46,590 --> 01:02:48,680
entered the forest and she
picked some flowers, sort of

1325
01:02:48,690 --> 01:02:50,870
wolf and sponsored a wolf and
the wolf said poo as she ran

1326
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,540
off.
But if you say you must start

1327
01:02:53,550 --> 01:02:55,690
your first sentiment on a matter
of payer.

1328
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,280
Hmm.
And they've got rid of Once Upon

1329
01:02:58,290 --> 01:03:00,640
a time already and they go
crash.

1330
01:03:01,030 --> 01:03:03,120
What was that crash for?
You know they've started with a

1331
01:03:03,130 --> 01:03:04,270
bang.
What was the bang?

1332
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,840
You've gotta be creative cause
how do you get the word Bangor

1333
01:03:06,850 --> 01:03:08,090
crash.
It's to begin with little

1334
01:03:08,100 --> 01:03:14,700
advance only by being creative.
So I love doing that give the

1335
01:03:14,710 --> 01:03:18,080
troubles really rigid rules to
right by and they're just

1336
01:03:18,090 --> 01:03:21,000
flourish creatively.
And I think sometimes teachers

1337
01:03:21,010 --> 01:03:24,600
say to me all the more able
writers find it difficult that's

1338
01:03:24,610 --> 01:03:27,480
because they're used to just go
in blah blah blah blah blah blah

1339
01:03:27,490 --> 01:03:28,680
blah.
Formula right here.

1340
01:03:28,690 --> 01:03:31,700
It's beautiful.
But yeah same every time.

1341
01:03:31,850 --> 01:03:34,680
So here.
It's often what separates the

1342
01:03:34,830 --> 01:03:36,300
expected writers from greater
depth.

1343
01:03:36,310 --> 01:03:38,000
You know you guys are writing
moderation, which I've read

1344
01:03:38,010 --> 01:03:40,210
recently.
Into so it's fresh in my mind

1345
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,390
and it and it is because you get
those formulaic writers who are

1346
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,800
incredibly good at just
understanding anything you teach

1347
01:03:46,810 --> 01:03:49,070
them immediately.
This is what a simile is called

1348
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:51,650
Got it in this is how you use
semicolons bang in there.

1349
01:03:51,820 --> 01:03:54,990
The parenthesis is punctuated
like this boom in there and it's

1350
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:56,250
in every single piece of
writing.

1351
01:03:56,300 --> 01:03:57,650
But you can always separate
them.

1352
01:03:57,660 --> 01:04:00,270
When you sit there and you look
at two children, you can

1353
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,770
separate the children who are
very intelligent formulaically

1354
01:04:02,780 --> 01:04:06,450
and the children who have had
exposure to maybe a wide range

1355
01:04:06,460 --> 01:04:09,770
of books and creative ways of
writing sentences and their work

1356
01:04:09,780 --> 01:04:13,040
just it just reads different and
that's we say that that's

1357
01:04:13,050 --> 01:04:15,830
better.
But I I always argue that.

1358
01:04:17,810 --> 01:04:19,530
You could be a great writer as a
child.

1359
01:04:20,180 --> 01:04:24,120
Without necessarily reading lots
and lots of books if it's taught

1360
01:04:24,130 --> 01:04:25,800
well.
And, you know, I have to say

1361
01:04:25,810 --> 01:04:27,970
I've had this argument.
Not an argument, that's the

1362
01:04:27,980 --> 01:04:29,650
wrong word.
But I've had this discussion

1363
01:04:29,660 --> 01:04:33,670
with Frank Cottrell Boyce, with
Mad Evans in the same room as

1364
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:38,230
Piers Torday, and they sat
listening to me and they don't

1365
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:39,350
agree.
I think they're not.

1366
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,280
And smiles.
Yeah, yeah, I say.

1367
01:04:44,030 --> 01:04:46,960
Y'all been Arthur, a world
famous author and you stand and

1368
01:04:46,970 --> 01:04:51,060
say to people, and because I was
just giving all these books of

1369
01:04:51,070 --> 01:04:54,700
child Missus Jones used to read
to us every day and year six and

1370
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:57,040
she read all these books and she
shared books with all the time.

1371
01:04:57,050 --> 01:05:00,010
And now teachers don't do that.
We're losing our writers.

1372
01:05:00,770 --> 01:05:04,840
And I said, well see all thirty
children miss George Casserole

1373
01:05:05,070 --> 01:05:07,160
#1 best selling authors.
They write everyday.

1374
01:05:07,170 --> 01:05:09,200
As for for fun, they're computer
writing.

1375
01:05:09,210 --> 01:05:11,180
They're amazing.
Ohh, there's no it's something

1376
01:05:11,190 --> 01:05:13,260
else.
It's not that it must be

1377
01:05:13,310 --> 01:05:15,660
otherwise everyone would be an
author who was read at primary

1378
01:05:15,670 --> 01:05:17,680
school.
My teacher read his own books.

1379
01:05:17,690 --> 01:05:19,800
I'm still in contact with him.
So I went to school with his son

1380
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,440
and I always say to him
trembling, used to read his he

1381
01:05:22,450 --> 01:05:24,180
wrote a book about a bonfire
night.

1382
01:05:24,690 --> 01:05:26,400
I know it was upsetting around
the school.

1383
01:05:26,410 --> 01:05:28,500
So like the streets where we
lived it was all setting on

1384
01:05:28,510 --> 01:05:31,040
streets amazing.
And when we have like when I see

1385
01:05:31,050 --> 01:05:33,440
people in primary school.
Do you remember that story about

1386
01:05:33,450 --> 01:05:37,130
Bonfire night Mr leading role?
And it was off hill and they

1387
01:05:37,140 --> 01:05:42,420
threw it away.
Bill yeah, no, you know, he

1388
01:05:42,430 --> 01:05:45,950
inspired, he inspired me to
write by by that, but I think.

1389
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,830
If you could do high quality
modelling with something that

1390
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,090
children really want to write
about, they don't have to read

1391
01:05:52,100 --> 01:05:54,030
books.
You know, you can introduce

1392
01:05:54,220 --> 01:05:56,450
vocabulary enough that you're
could do it.

1393
01:05:56,460 --> 01:05:59,470
You can introduce techniques
enough that children can write

1394
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,970
well and write to a standard
that we're enjoying.

1395
01:06:02,220 --> 01:06:05,400
I don't think it has to always
be from a text, and sometimes

1396
01:06:05,410 --> 01:06:07,510
that's I talk about this as
well.

1397
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:09,540
It's not embedded in research,
but I think.

1398
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,830
The research by National
Institute says not all children

1399
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,320
like reading.
I think it says what it said,

1400
01:06:17,390 --> 01:06:21,080
you know, 19 said the children.
It was when I last read it said

1401
01:06:21,150 --> 01:06:23,520
if the friends do, they read for
pleasure, they'd be embarrassed.

1402
01:06:23,530 --> 01:06:26,020
You know, stuff like this.
So they're not read it and it's

1403
01:06:26,030 --> 01:06:27,570
not because they're on iPads
anymore.

1404
01:06:27,580 --> 01:06:29,660
It's because they've always not
read.

1405
01:06:29,870 --> 01:06:32,440
You know people go often with
teachers.

1406
01:06:32,450 --> 01:06:35,340
Teachers go up.
I always wanted as a kid and so

1407
01:06:35,350 --> 01:06:37,670
did I, because my purpose made
sure they put other.

1408
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,840
There was other kids in my my
brother didn't read very much at

1409
01:06:40,850 --> 01:06:43,480
all.
Andy McNab, that's it.

1410
01:06:45,030 --> 01:06:48,870
Just Ryan.
And he's got better with his

1411
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,530
become an adult reader, not
better.

1412
01:06:51,540 --> 01:06:52,920
I said he could, he could always
read.

1413
01:06:52,930 --> 01:06:55,900
He's just got better making time
to read.

1414
01:06:55,910 --> 01:06:57,900
I think that's Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

1415
01:06:58,940 --> 01:07:01,040
Lots of train of thought what
we're talking about.

1416
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:06,360
No, it was, it was in general
about how kind of you mentioned

1417
01:07:06,370 --> 01:07:09,860
how you you don't need to have
to read all the time to be

1418
01:07:09,870 --> 01:07:12,850
quality writer.
And I think the the thing that

1419
01:07:12,860 --> 01:07:15,310
you're kind of coming round to
that I really do believe in from

1420
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:18,280
the kind of prompt I said at the
start was I think children have

1421
01:07:18,290 --> 01:07:22,420
to be in a position where
they're excited or passionate or

1422
01:07:22,430 --> 01:07:25,050
have something they want to get
down on something that.

1423
01:07:25,060 --> 01:07:26,700
Promise.
I'm going to say about the box

1424
01:07:26,770 --> 01:07:28,680
that if children don't like
reading.

1425
01:07:29,490 --> 01:07:32,320
It cannot be a good prompt for
writing, because if you say

1426
01:07:32,490 --> 01:07:35,200
you're gonna write about this
book and the kid goes, I hate

1427
01:07:35,210 --> 01:07:38,720
reading, and yeah, I'm gonna
read this and then you gonna

1428
01:07:38,730 --> 01:07:41,140
write about, yeah, you're gonna
read this, I'm gonna write about

1429
01:07:41,150 --> 01:07:44,130
it like I hate reading.
You've got the you can't because

1430
01:07:44,140 --> 01:07:45,740
we've gotta read in French
driver pops.

1431
01:07:46,850 --> 01:07:48,380
Please don't.
Please don't make me do.

1432
01:07:48,450 --> 01:07:49,850
Let me go.
I don't like writing though

1433
01:07:49,860 --> 01:07:52,300
either cause I've had to read
and it's boring.

1434
01:07:52,310 --> 01:07:55,290
I hate reading and I could write
about that boring thing.

1435
01:07:56,170 --> 01:07:58,580
Yeah you're so right.
You know and and I just my own

1436
01:07:58,590 --> 01:08:03,400
life, I am that kid by the way,
I I did not read at all growing

1437
01:08:03,410 --> 01:08:06,120
up whatsoever.
But I really like creative

1438
01:08:06,130 --> 01:08:09,100
writing and without blowing my
trumpet, I wasn't bad at it.

1439
01:08:09,110 --> 01:08:12,120
I'm sure there are children are
better but it doesn't tally up

1440
01:08:12,130 --> 01:08:14,740
and I've always had that in my
head of me thinking I was quite

1441
01:08:14,750 --> 01:08:16,380
good at creative writing.
I was often praised for my

1442
01:08:16,390 --> 01:08:18,319
creative writing and I genuinely
never read ever.

1443
01:08:18,330 --> 01:08:20,740
I never read anything.
So clearly there was something

1444
01:08:20,750 --> 01:08:23,899
else going on in in my education
that was allowing me to enjoy

1445
01:08:23,910 --> 01:08:26,300
this process and be good at it
because.

1446
01:08:26,310 --> 01:08:28,939
And it wasn't through reading
because I didn't enjoy doing it.

1447
01:08:28,950 --> 01:08:30,890
Well, people say to me through
the cat tell stories like

1448
01:08:30,899 --> 01:08:32,310
reading a book.
So I said go stand in the

1449
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:35,120
playground.
You know some of the playground

1450
01:08:35,130 --> 01:08:38,770
and watched them play.
And one of them's a superhero.

1451
01:08:38,819 --> 01:08:40,250
One of those were different
planet.

1452
01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:43,060
One of them's a troll.
One of those things thing and

1453
01:08:43,069 --> 01:08:44,609
they're all off the TV or
something.

1454
01:08:44,660 --> 01:08:48,439
You know when I was at school we
used to play turtles and I'd be

1455
01:08:48,450 --> 01:08:50,529
like you're Leonardo you're
Donatello.

1456
01:08:50,540 --> 01:08:53,310
I'm Colangelo.
I'm the orange one with the like

1457
01:08:53,319 --> 01:08:55,510
pizza Donatello.
You've got the staff you're the

1458
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,529
purple one.
Rafael Leonardo.

1459
01:08:57,540 --> 01:08:59,229
You're going to argue about
being the leader.

1460
01:08:59,290 --> 01:09:01,770
Then we're going to a girl wants
to play like you can break

1461
01:09:01,779 --> 01:09:05,430
O'Neill and you get kidnapped by
Shredder Bebop and Rocksteady.

1462
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,010
They take you over there.
We're going to come out the dark

1463
01:09:08,020 --> 01:09:09,550
sewers.
We're going to creep out of the

1464
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,240
dark suit.
I know whether turtles book.

1465
01:09:13,020 --> 01:09:15,870
No, I'm alive.
Talk to a kid about Minecraft.

1466
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:19,250
My boys now, the younger ones,
they'll play Minecraft.

1467
01:09:19,260 --> 01:09:21,930
They'll have to be mindful,
dictate this whole story about

1468
01:09:21,939 --> 01:09:24,520
mapping where they've been, and
underground lair.

1469
01:09:24,529 --> 01:09:26,760
And I said, well, he built
underground left and go hide it

1470
01:09:26,770 --> 01:09:29,609
from these end of things.
I don't know all the things.

1471
01:09:29,740 --> 01:09:32,390
You know, I think sometimes it
seems to be because we don't

1472
01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:34,830
understand what it is that the
children are talking about.

1473
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,950
You know, they're writing a
story about creepers and zombies

1474
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,310
and ender Dragons.
You go, oh, that's not highbrow

1475
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:43,479
enough, You have to write about
this thing.

1476
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:46,390
But you know, I've I've got
lessons where we write about

1477
01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:51,300
mountain biking we write about.
You've seen all the films on

1478
01:09:51,310 --> 01:09:52,740
this, said Ohh.
Kinds of things that the

1479
01:09:52,750 --> 01:09:55,420
children have not heard about
before and they love telling

1480
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:57,680
stories.
We use Titanium, the music video

1481
01:09:57,690 --> 01:10:01,160
of.
And it's about a boy that blows

1482
01:10:01,170 --> 01:10:02,580
up.
He's like, but you don't know

1483
01:10:02,590 --> 01:10:04,020
what he is.
You don't have an alien or a

1484
01:10:04,030 --> 01:10:06,520
superhero.
I've had children say to me he's

1485
01:10:06,530 --> 01:10:09,960
a ghost, he's already dead.
And all these different stories

1486
01:10:09,970 --> 01:10:12,270
start coming out.
And then all I did was help them

1487
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,360
frame it and say, well, how
would you, how would you write

1488
01:10:15,370 --> 01:10:17,710
that?
And then sometimes that's a bit

1489
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,600
like this text.
Let's have a read of that this

1490
01:10:21,610 --> 01:10:24,650
little paragraph here where we.
Because what you're describing

1491
01:10:24,660 --> 01:10:26,820
there has been described really
well by this author.

1492
01:10:27,530 --> 01:10:29,380
How could that?
And they go, yeah, so why are

1493
01:10:29,390 --> 01:10:32,710
you trying to like that?
Engaged in it.

1494
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:34,850
Getting interested in what
they're writing about.

1495
01:10:34,900 --> 01:10:37,970
But then once you've got them
hooked and they feel confident

1496
01:10:37,980 --> 01:10:41,370
and a good writer and they all
have been writing about is, you

1497
01:10:41,380 --> 01:10:46,810
know Minecraft and Mario and
Sonic and then Fortnite or

1498
01:10:46,820 --> 01:10:49,570
whatever, and you've got that's
a brilliant piece of writing.

1499
01:10:49,860 --> 01:10:53,410
Do you think that you could
write about this that's not.

1500
01:10:53,500 --> 01:10:57,200
That's not that, you know it's
similar because where you've got

1501
01:10:57,210 --> 01:11:00,590
that person rescuing a Princess
from an Ender dragon.

1502
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,370
Could it not be a troll because
we're writing fairy tales.

1503
01:11:03,380 --> 01:11:05,350
Could it not be this because
we're writing about this?

1504
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:07,870
Yeah.
It's really easy then for them

1505
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,070
to see what they've done and
done really well then moved into

1506
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,730
the.
The realm that you want to be in

1507
01:11:13,820 --> 01:11:17,430
without going actually that
stuff you do at home isn't

1508
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:18,870
worthy.
And I think that's what we say

1509
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:20,790
sometimes.
The literacy that children have

1510
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:24,490
at home is offering an iPad, a
television, a mobile phone

1511
01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:29,230
screen, and at school we say
that literacy you're doing isn't

1512
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,470
worthy of what we do in school
and we need to say it is worthy.

1513
01:11:32,540 --> 01:11:35,850
It's so amazing stuff, you could
write about it.

1514
01:11:38,420 --> 01:11:40,540
So I'd like to bring that kind
of conversation around to a

1515
01:11:40,550 --> 01:11:43,350
closing point, I guess something
that's going to be useful for

1516
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,630
we've got a lot of younger
listeners.

1517
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:47,660
We look at the stats, it's
really interesting and I think

1518
01:11:47,670 --> 01:11:50,190
we have a lot of teachers that
listen who are maybe at the

1519
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:51,670
beginning of their career as
well.

1520
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,330
I imagine would have just found
a whole wealth of valuable

1521
01:11:54,340 --> 01:11:55,740
points from everything you just
said.

1522
01:11:55,780 --> 01:11:57,840
But let's try and let's try and
like bring it together now.

1523
01:11:57,850 --> 01:11:58,750
And I'm going to ask you a
question.

1524
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,330
It might be difficult to answer
succinctly because there is so

1525
01:12:01,340 --> 01:12:04,300
much stuff, but.
If let's put ourselves in the

1526
01:12:04,310 --> 01:12:08,010
shoes of maybe a newly qualified
teacher now who is looking at

1527
01:12:08,020 --> 01:12:11,340
writing like I did and thinking,
wow, this is the hardest subject

1528
01:12:11,350 --> 01:12:12,530
to teach out of all the
subjects.

1529
01:12:12,540 --> 01:12:15,170
Because arguably that's why I
think I think it is the most

1530
01:12:15,180 --> 01:12:17,550
difficult thing to get your head
around as a teacher.

1531
01:12:18,460 --> 01:12:20,790
If you were just to give them a
little bit of advice, a bit of

1532
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:22,810
wisdom from from Rob Smith's
brain.

1533
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:26,540
What would that wisdom?
What would that advice be to

1534
01:12:26,550 --> 01:12:27,880
those teachers who are looking
to?

1535
01:12:28,540 --> 01:12:30,780
You know, teach writing well for
their children.

1536
01:12:32,610 --> 01:12:35,010
I mean, I think it's just don't
be afraid to try things out.

1537
01:12:35,660 --> 01:12:38,350
You know, if I put it to the
first person, to me don't use

1538
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:40,380
film.
You know, and I still have

1539
01:12:40,390 --> 01:12:43,070
people say to me, we don't use
film in your writing.

1540
01:12:44,070 --> 01:12:46,430
That this trip will be there
where it is.

1541
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:50,240
And I don't think people around
the country would be using films

1542
01:12:50,470 --> 01:12:53,200
as much as they are now because
the national strategies,

1543
01:12:53,210 --> 01:12:57,980
remember the national strategies
that NSNS, the good thing they

1544
01:12:57,990 --> 01:13:00,860
had it, they had.
A film in the year 4.

1545
01:13:00,870 --> 01:13:03,880
The shirt machine and the piano
in the Year 5.

1546
01:13:04,470 --> 01:13:07,600
Ohh yeah, I said to year four
teacher to do the same.

1547
01:13:07,610 --> 01:13:09,250
She said no.
I said, well I'll do it.

1548
01:13:09,260 --> 01:13:11,810
I'll do the shirt machine and
I'll do the piano.

1549
01:13:13,290 --> 01:13:14,860
Got two amazing pieces of
writing from it.

1550
01:13:14,870 --> 01:13:17,740
Two amazing pieces of writing
and my thing then was.

1551
01:13:18,460 --> 01:13:21,230
What made that amazing that
writing was it the film So I

1552
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,040
don't you said other film and I
still go to schools now and they

1553
01:13:24,050 --> 01:13:27,990
say every year group does one
film unit a year and it's the

1554
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,430
best writer may get.
Ohh yeah so why do one then.

1555
01:13:31,900 --> 01:13:33,110
Yeah.
Keep going.

1556
01:13:33,180 --> 01:13:36,690
So that would be try things out
and be brave.

1557
01:13:36,700 --> 01:13:39,690
And if someone says you make
that decision as it worked or

1558
01:13:39,700 --> 01:13:41,530
not.
And so if someone says that

1559
01:13:41,540 --> 01:13:43,970
won't work, then show them
around and ask this work.

1560
01:13:43,980 --> 01:13:46,600
Look at this, look at this
writing, slow writing.

1561
01:13:46,610 --> 01:13:49,750
If people said to me that
stifles creativity, then I would

1562
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:51,680
never do it again if I'd
followed their advice.

1563
01:13:51,690 --> 01:13:54,300
So I think it's that.
Be brave and try it with your

1564
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:56,970
class.
We've got time to experiment,

1565
01:13:56,980 --> 01:13:58,630
haven't we?
We've got five hours a week for

1566
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:00,250
half an hour.
Something didn't work.

1567
01:14:00,740 --> 01:14:03,390
It work.
You know, I've ripped out Kids

1568
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,170
box and said right, everybody
that didn't work very well, did

1569
01:14:06,180 --> 01:14:08,930
it and they all go enormous.
Maybe we we found it harder.

1570
01:14:09,100 --> 01:14:12,370
It's boring or but it's freaking
out quick and it's not telling

1571
01:14:12,380 --> 01:14:14,630
anybody about it because
brilliant.

1572
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:16,870
Why does it need to be there?
You know what happens?

1573
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,910
Something terrible.
I'll just shred it so it's not.

1574
01:14:22,030 --> 01:14:26,900
Good.
It's not needed, so let's not

1575
01:14:26,910 --> 01:14:29,210
leave it there.
Let's not keep a record of our

1576
01:14:29,220 --> 01:14:32,100
failures and you know, as a
group we can fail.

1577
01:14:33,750 --> 01:14:35,860
I think again, it's about
building up relationships.

1578
01:14:35,870 --> 01:14:37,500
We could do that, isn't it?
You know, I said to our

1579
01:14:37,510 --> 01:14:40,420
children, we have to do these
things and it's called the

1580
01:14:40,430 --> 01:14:42,100
boring things.
And people say to me, you

1581
01:14:42,110 --> 01:14:44,200
shouldn't call anything boring.
It's really important.

1582
01:14:44,310 --> 01:14:47,860
So it's boring the seven.
Umm, you know.

1583
01:14:47,950 --> 01:14:50,060
Being important.
Being boring, don't they?

1584
01:14:50,070 --> 01:14:51,430
They're not.
They're not one or the other, is

1585
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:52,200
it?
It can be both.

1586
01:14:52,210 --> 01:14:54,520
Yeah, we did about things and
then we did the fun bit, you

1587
01:14:54,530 --> 01:14:57,110
know, But do this and then you
get you get this as a reward.

1588
01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:01,020
And I don't mean we'll do boring
maths and then you get fun PE

1589
01:15:01,410 --> 01:15:04,640
Yeah, some things, some things
in maths are a bit boring and

1590
01:15:04,650 --> 01:15:06,380
some things in massive blow your
mind.

1591
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:09,520
And then we have to do this.
We have to learn this because

1592
01:15:09,530 --> 01:15:11,220
then we get to do this bit about
it.

1593
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,370
Listen to learner's interests.
It's that thing about.

1594
01:15:16,190 --> 01:15:18,270
That home literacy is so
important.

1595
01:15:18,940 --> 01:15:22,720
You know, that and that whole
language and whole life and and

1596
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:26,670
you know, just just talking to
them about what they eat, what

1597
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,050
they do at home, what stories
they read.

1598
01:15:29,100 --> 01:15:31,130
You know, I have children could
really say I've read this story.

1599
01:15:31,140 --> 01:15:33,070
I've never heard of it before,
never heard of this book.

1600
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,430
Let's say tell us about it and
they would tell you about it.

1601
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:37,380
And then everyone's interested
because the cool kids are

1602
01:15:37,390 --> 01:15:39,350
telling you about it.
And then you read a bit of that

1603
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:43,550
book and then write about that.
Well, what I would say is if you

1604
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,230
think something's boring for you
to teach, try and jazz it up so

1605
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:50,200
that you're interested and
you're infused about it.

1606
01:15:50,210 --> 01:15:52,380
Because children know that.
Children know if you're enthused

1607
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:55,660
about it all that and and then
and then and then hopefully

1608
01:15:55,670 --> 01:15:58,170
they'll be coming to you about
it and don't.

1609
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:01,870
I mean, don't chase it up for
the sake of it.

1610
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,970
Do it because it's another
valuable learning experience.

1611
01:16:04,980 --> 01:16:07,020
You know, don't say right.
We're all going to go outside to

1612
01:16:07,030 --> 01:16:09,100
write today.
Go outside because you're

1613
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:11,090
describing clouds.
Go outside because you're

1614
01:16:11,270 --> 01:16:13,550
inside.
What does it sound like?

1615
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:15,110
We're playing overhead.
Can you hear anything?

1616
01:16:15,740 --> 01:16:18,930
You know, I shouldn't go.
It was a busy day and the sound

1617
01:16:18,940 --> 01:16:21,940
of planes were roaring overhead.
Well, as I say, let's all go

1618
01:16:21,950 --> 01:16:24,540
outside of that.
Can you see that playing up

1619
01:16:24,550 --> 01:16:25,120
there?
Yeah.

1620
01:16:25,130 --> 01:16:26,600
Is it roaring?
No.

1621
01:16:26,670 --> 01:16:29,220
What's doing?
But how could we describe it?

1622
01:16:29,230 --> 01:16:32,020
Ohh, it's got white Criss
crosses across the sky.

1623
01:16:32,030 --> 01:16:33,580
Beautiful.
Let's all go back inside

1624
01:16:33,590 --> 01:16:37,660
carrying writing.
It's the point I'm one of those

1625
01:16:37,670 --> 01:16:39,550
teachers at Google's in the
middle of the lesson.

1626
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:45,910
I lost my try.
My Yeah 8 by the other day was

1627
01:16:45,980 --> 01:16:48,920
was writing something and I said
it doesn't do that though it

1628
01:16:48,930 --> 01:16:50,050
doesn't do that.
That's it.

1629
01:16:50,870 --> 01:16:53,040
They don't.
They don't make that sound.

1630
01:16:53,050 --> 01:16:54,370
They know.
What sound do they make?

1631
01:16:54,380 --> 01:16:57,220
And I played it and they went,
ohh, yeah, yeah, Ohh.

1632
01:16:57,230 --> 01:16:58,640
And they described it a
different way.

1633
01:16:58,690 --> 01:17:00,450
But, you know, sometimes you
don't know.

1634
01:17:00,460 --> 01:17:04,190
Did he I talked to never been to
the park and I've been to the

1635
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:06,520
beach, never been to the castle.
And then you say, right, I want

1636
01:17:06,530 --> 01:17:09,950
to write about that.
You too.

1637
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:10,790
Ohh.
It's amazing.

1638
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:14,990
You're a poor person in London
in 1666.

1639
01:17:17,550 --> 01:17:19,460
Yeah, ohh, yes, I know exactly
what that's.

1640
01:17:19,470 --> 01:17:22,360
Like you just have that one kid
at the back who's actually from

1641
01:17:22,370 --> 01:17:23,780
London.
And this is what I've been

1642
01:17:23,790 --> 01:17:25,980
waiting for.
Guys, let's go to the class.

1643
01:17:25,990 --> 01:17:27,500
No idea.
No idea.

1644
01:17:29,090 --> 01:17:32,110
Ohh, that's really valuable,
valuable advice and echo exactly

1645
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:34,840
what you're saying.
And I think the idea of building

1646
01:17:34,850 --> 01:17:37,100
that confidence for me
personally, I felt like my

1647
01:17:37,110 --> 01:17:40,630
teaching practise improved
exponentially after I had that

1648
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:43,270
confidence to be like, well,
actually halfway through this

1649
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:45,330
lesson that doesn't work for me
and I'm not.

1650
01:17:46,710 --> 01:17:49,680
Bonded to this Lesson plan, even
though I spent hours maybe

1651
01:17:49,690 --> 01:17:52,660
planning it in the moment,
building up that confidence to

1652
01:17:52,670 --> 01:17:55,600
be like, no, actually I'm going
to do this because I think that

1653
01:17:55,610 --> 01:17:57,700
it will have this effect on
their writing, on their

1654
01:17:57,710 --> 01:18:01,220
outcomes.
Really powerful thing for and

1655
01:18:01,310 --> 01:18:03,840
just very quickly Rob in the
last podcast I said powerful

1656
01:18:03,850 --> 01:18:06,190
about 7 times and I've had
numerous messages from people

1657
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:07,870
saying was it really powerful,
that podcast.

1658
01:18:07,910 --> 01:18:09,180
So I just had to get it in there
again.

1659
01:18:09,190 --> 01:18:12,940
I think it's a really powerful
thing for younger teachers to

1660
01:18:12,990 --> 01:18:14,980
realise, definitely.
I don't know about you, Dylan,

1661
01:18:14,990 --> 01:18:17,230
but I feel like I've learned
loads Just listening to you,

1662
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:19,510
Rob, I felt like I could listen
to you for another two hours,

1663
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,060
but I don't want to take up all
your time.

1664
01:18:21,890 --> 01:18:24,260
But I just want to say on behalf
of everyone, thank you so much

1665
01:18:24,270 --> 01:18:27,400
for sharing a lot of your are
your story really is one of your

1666
01:18:27,410 --> 01:18:29,600
sharing your story.
Made a lot of anecdotes that,

1667
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:32,250
you know, I can tell you're a
good writing teacher because I

1668
01:18:32,260 --> 01:18:34,210
was in my imagination a lot of
the time when you were talking

1669
01:18:34,220 --> 01:18:36,400
just, you know, thinking about
what you were saying.

1670
01:18:36,410 --> 01:18:39,660
And I know that listeners,
teachers in particular, will

1671
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,290
leave this episode feeling like
they can put something into

1672
01:18:42,300 --> 01:18:44,700
their English lessons.
So really, really appreciate

1673
01:18:44,710 --> 01:18:46,710
that.
Thank you for coming on and

1674
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:48,060
chatting to us today as.
Well, please.

1675
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:52,320
Thanks a lot for listening to
this week's episode guys.

1676
01:18:52,330 --> 01:18:55,020
If you've enjoyed it, do give us
subscribe and a rating on your

1677
01:18:55,030 --> 01:18:57,580
Apple podcast or Spotify podcast
or wherever you get your

1678
01:18:57,590 --> 01:19:00,000
podcasts.
And we are back over the summer

1679
01:19:00,010 --> 01:19:01,660
holidays.
We will not stop every single

1680
01:19:01,670 --> 01:19:03,940
week on a Friday you have a new
episode to listen to.

1681
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:05,670
Do TuneIn.
See you next time.