Ep 21: Emily Weston: Whole Class Reading, Mixed Year Group Classes & Transition To Secondary School

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Hello everyone.
Welcome back to another episode

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of Teach, Sleep, Repeat.
This is episode 21 and my name

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is Dylan.
And my name is Hayden.

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And you've seen already from the
thumbnail and the title that we

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have another guest and we're
super excited.

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We recorded the interview a
couple of weeks ago, Aiden

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actually, it was quite a while
ago now, but you know, busy

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schedules.
We need to talk about different

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things and we thought we'd save
it for you because it's super,

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super awesome.
But before we dive in, we've got

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a little bit of bookkeeping to
do.

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Aiden, we've got to do a little.
Intros.

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It's nice, isn't it?
Have you been made, have been,

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pal.
You're right.

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I've been all right.
I've been right.

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Thank you.
Yeah.

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Funny thing happened today that
I've been dying to tell you.

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OK, So really random, by the
way, this never happened to me.

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Never happened to me, right.
On the way to hospital

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appointment in in Medway.
So, you know, a good hours drive

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on the motorway going 70 miles
an hour, right?

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Girlfriend next to me trying to
tell me a story and then Bam

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made us both jump.
Thought we'd like hit something.

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A pigeon.
A pigeon just literally just

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just exploded on our car.
Just BAM flew into it.

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On the windscreen.
No, kind of like on the side of

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the car, like literally like the
bit between the two sort of side

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doors.
Just, I couldn't believe it.

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So that that was just hilarious,
but also terrible felt really.

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Bad.
I'm going to stop you there

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because we're gonna have to
start a new segment.

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Not me.
Hey, you didn't.

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Heard stories.
What's What's going on with your

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monsters every week?
They were living in my roof and

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now they're getting smacked by
car.

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So and and we've and we
witnessed the seagull, the of

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our of our dinner.
Yeah, that's true.

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That's true.
The seagulls as well.

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Oh my God.
And literally earlier today, I

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mean, you saw me.
I was shooting pigeons out of my

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window because they're all
nesting inside my roof again.

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So I think the pigeons have
learned a lesson.

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Maybe they'll leave me alone
now.

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You're like, you're like a
really rubbish Doctor Doolittle.

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You can only do it to birds.
They just want you up.

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Nothing good.
So I just had to say that

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because that was really random
and bizarre and not that

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exciting, but just what?
That never happened.

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That was crazy.
But I do have one other thing

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because I I really just want to
before I ask you how your week

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was, which I will, of course,
because I care.

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Thank you.
Thank you.

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I just want to ask the viewers
of for something because I have

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been forgetting to do this for
so long.

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OK.
That's not like us.

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You know we never do this guys.
We never ask the things of you.

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So just do this one thing.
Basically when we when we

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started making this podcast, we
got ourselves set up on Apple

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and Spotify and all that and now
most of you guys listen on

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Spotify or watch us on Spotify,
but we do have some Apple, Apple

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podcast listeners as well.
But the problem is, and it was

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weird timing of this Dylan I.
Wonder if you can.

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I know, I know what you're gonna
say.

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Funny enough, when we released
Episode Whatever, it was like 3

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or so.
Episode 5 episode.

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Five, which was about toxicity
in schools.

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Weirdly enough, a day or two
later we got a one star review

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and it was our first review on
Apple.

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We were obviously bummed out
because it was our literal first

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review on Apple and it stayed
pretty low for a while as a

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couple of five star real genuine
ones because obviously we

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couldn't possibly get one star
review for real came in, but I

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just wanted to.
To pester you guys, could you

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help us out by flooding us with
some five stars on Apple?

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Because at the moment our
average is being brought down by

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this, this one star, which like
we said, no idea who that might

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have been.
Who could it be?

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I don't know, after a episode 5.
Toxicity in schools, not any

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disgruntled SLT members, do you
reckon?

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No, of course not.
No, they wouldn't.

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They wouldn't.
They wouldn't.

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They definitely didn't listen to
what we said and get angry at

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the fact that shouldn't have.
They think, they think stop,

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shut up chairs.
They would never do that.

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They would never do that.
Take chairs.

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Away.
No.

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How else are you supposed to get
rid of rid of staff?

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Everyone's so protected, we have
to bully them out, you know?

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No one, no one's getting, no
one's doing that.

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No one's getting annoyed at us.
Like, you know, jumping in on

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schools being horrible.
And I was doing that, but it was

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just random.
Obviously someone just thought

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one star after that episode
about toxicity.

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Poor, poor production value or
something like that.

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Yeah.
So help us out, guys.

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That would be much appreciated.
Anyway, Dylan, you've had an

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interesting morning.
Now I want more details because

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all I got from Dylan, by the way
today was a picture of his

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mangled.
Foot.

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Not really much context to be
honest with you because you were

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busy.
I was busy, so.

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We're we're we're past the point
now, OK, where we send each

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other messages that involve
words.

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Should pictures just pictures
Right there.

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That point, Yeah.
So it's strike day today for

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everyone who doesn't know.
Strike day for teachers turns

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into a day of just admin, where
you go to the doctors or do

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adult things that you just can't
do otherwise.

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Anyway, I was relaxing.
I was actually managed to relax

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the house in order.
I sat down watching something on

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the telly and I jumped up
because the washing machine was.

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Finished.
Ohh, gonna sort that out.

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Being productive.
This is obviously my karma for

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trying to be productive and I
whacked my foot against the

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coffee table so hard.
But it's really weird.

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I don't have any.
I've done this before.

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When you're obviously in extreme
pain, but your body just kind of

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shuts it out, it's like, no,
don't.

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You don't have to worry about
that toe dangling off your foot.

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Don't worry about that.
The brain just, like, shuts it

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off.
So I didn't actually realise

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that I was in excruciating pain
until I'd walked to the kitchen

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and I was like, oh, that's
that's hurt a bit.

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I looked down.
Just my my 3/4 of my tail

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hanging off and my and blood
blood pouring out of my.

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Ohh.
We're at the stage yet where we

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can post on our Instagram
pictures of our mangled toes.

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Or is that?
We're just not quite there yet.

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I don't think there yet.
Have you.

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I think you've got to think of
the algorithm.

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The algorithm will not, will not
eat.

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That at least 10 more episodes
somewhere we can do.

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That yeah.
But obviously when you do

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something like that, your
adrenaline kicks in, so you

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don't really feel pain for like
15 minutes.

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I looked and I thought that
should hurt way more than what

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it is.
When I look at it like that,

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doesn't look good.
And 15 minutes later just this

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dull pain comes in my foot
really hard.

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I was meant to go to the pub.
I was meant to nip out this

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afternoon and enjoy my strike.
OK, but no, I couldn't drive

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comfort shoes on, so I'm.
Barefoot really, really made me

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chuckle as I I'd forgotten.
I knew that you said you were

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doing something later on, right?
Because we weren't, actually.

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We're recording this podcast
right now in a time that we

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weren't actually going to be
doing it because Dylan was going

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out and I forgot what you were
doing.

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But the idea that because you
stubbed your toe, you now

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couldn't leave the house really
made me laugh.

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And it was.
It was just as pathetic when I

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was like to basically saying I
couldn't come out anymore.

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Not my little toe.
It's really sore.

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But there was this one other
thing this week and I I want to

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say to the listeners right now
because Hayden, you called them

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viewers and I still respect
those listeners.

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OK, listen, I've got nothing
against the viewers.

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I've never said a bad word about
the viewers.

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I never would.
But there are, there are those

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people, those people out there
who are listeners as well.

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But anyway, however, however
you're listening or consuming

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this, whatever you want.
To say, bring US1 however you're

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doing that.
You're doing that.

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We're definitely not really,
really, really angry at that.

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And we're definitely the kind of
people to take that to heart and

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let it affect our mood for weeks
and then.

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But literally, I've lost my
train.

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I lost my train of thought.
Now anyway, this is going to be

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a really long episode because
the chat we had with Emily was

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amazing.
Again, lots of people probably

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scrubbed right past this,
haven't even listening this bit,

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going straight to the bit about
Emily, But we're looking forward

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to it.
It's long, but there's one other

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thing I wanted to talk about,
and it was this week, and it was

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one of those moments where I was
crying with laughter in my

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classroom.
The children were laughing their

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heads off and the boy, because
it's one of those moments where

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it could go one of two ways for
the child.

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And I was really pleased because
it happened and he could have

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got really embarrassed and
upset.

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But luckily after I'd obviously
turned round and started to cry

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laughter, I turned around and I
was like oh gosh I ohh, he's OK

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good because he was taking it
like a good sport as well.

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Yeah, we we had a really awkward
like 10 minutes at the end of

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maths where we were doing class
photos.

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Now are all the classes mix up
for maths?

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So I had a mixture of children
from my class who normally go to

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another teacher for maths but
they've come back and we just

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had this like 10 minute slot
where we were all doing

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different lessons and there's no
way I could have carried on my

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lesson and had all these
children in.

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So we just thought we were doing
and we had.

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A little game of times, table
Showdown, but it it the way I

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play it with my children is it's
just one V1 at the front when we

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have, you know, I've actually
not done it this year at all, to

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be honest with you, but we just
had this spare 10 minutes.

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So I got two children to the
front and I asked them a

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question because when I was at
school I was the champion of

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this game, OK?
And there was this maths game,

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they'd ask maths questions.
Yeah, I tried to get in there,

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you know, when I was six, when I
was six years old, I did win.

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How many blow delivered?
You get shot in, yeah.

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And my teacher takes, my teacher
took safeguarding quite

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extremely safely.
So, you know, seriously.

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My teacher, my teacher took
serious guarding very safely.

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Shut up trying to reach you
anyway.

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Yeah, when when I was at school.
I'm just, I have my David Brett

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moment here.
Is like champion me.

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Year one, year 1 champion.
Anyway, they're teacher got so

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annoyed that I kept winning that
she stopped it being a maths

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game.
Got a kid up who liked football

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and asked him who the manager of
Liverpool was when I was the one

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that as well really.
That'll be the Gerard Houllier.

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I think so.
So I lost.

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Anyway, playing this game with
this kid and we've been recently

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doing Shape with the children
shapes like one of the things in

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maths which has really been hit
by COVID.

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I don't know if you've noticed
this as well, because at the end

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of the year and we're
prioritising arithmetic and all

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the core parts of that, she's
really been hit, so the shape

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knowledge in general of the
cohort is quite low.

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So we were teaching shape that
week and we've just been doing

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triangles and the three
different types of triangle for

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this, and who have not heard
this until since they were in

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school, scaling equilateral
isosceles different types of

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triangles based on their sides.
And so my question to the

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00:09:40,220 --> 00:09:43,230
children was, how many sides
does a triangle have?

227
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,290
Started off really simple.
And they drew because straight

228
00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:47,420
away both and said three because
we've just done it, that lesson.

229
00:09:47,430 --> 00:09:49,590
So I was like, OK, thankfully
that's cool.

230
00:09:50,220 --> 00:09:53,610
My next question was, OK, how
many sides does a scaling

231
00:09:53,620 --> 00:09:55,560
triangle have?
And the point was I was trying

232
00:09:55,570 --> 00:09:58,430
to trick them into thinking it's
this really weird thing.

233
00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:59,990
Still sorry because it's still a
triangle.

234
00:10:00,030 --> 00:10:06,270
So both of them, both of them
went five together and I was

235
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,640
like, oh, I don't know, you've
done where you've got 5.

236
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,910
But it's not five.
OK, let's have another go.

237
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,080
Remember, a triangle has three
sides.

238
00:10:13,090 --> 00:10:16,010
So a scaling triangle has, and
the whole class went three

239
00:10:16,020 --> 00:10:18,050
sides.
OK, good, so they're ready at

240
00:10:18,060 --> 00:10:19,610
the front.
Now these two turned round

241
00:10:19,620 --> 00:10:22,070
again.
I was like, OK, how many sides

242
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,490
does an isosceles triangle have?
Five.

243
00:10:26,580 --> 00:10:31,050
Ohh, no, it's still it's it's
still it's still it's still a

244
00:10:31,060 --> 00:10:32,610
triangle.
It's still a triangle.

245
00:10:32,620 --> 00:10:34,150
It's like Pentagon has five
sides.

246
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,090
Should we try again?
Like yeah, yeah.

247
00:10:37,020 --> 00:10:40,900
How how many sides does an
equilateral triangle have?

248
00:10:43,490 --> 00:10:48,460
40 Not quite so.
Still still wrong.

249
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:51,040
And I said to at this point,
remember, no matter what I say,

250
00:10:51,050 --> 00:10:54,020
if it's a triangle, it has three
sides.

251
00:10:54,030 --> 00:10:56,350
Pentagon has five sides.
Running out of triangles.

252
00:10:58,030 --> 00:11:01,740
I think I'd run out of triangles
And so I said to them right, I

253
00:11:01,750 --> 00:11:05,540
got them already and I said to
them OK, I just explained how 5

254
00:11:05,550 --> 00:11:08,660
is Pentagon because they kept
saying 5 and I was like, OK, so

255
00:11:08,670 --> 00:11:14,560
I said to myself, OK then how
many sides does a Pentagon have?

256
00:11:14,870 --> 00:11:16,960
And it's 1.10 roundabout
triangle.

257
00:11:20,060 --> 00:11:26,960
Not even 3.
And the whole class burst out

258
00:11:26,970 --> 00:11:28,060
laughing.
I turned round.

259
00:11:28,070 --> 00:11:31,300
I was like, I've just spent like
5 minutes explaining.

260
00:11:31,750 --> 00:11:35,640
He didn't even say 3/3 was the
answer.

261
00:11:35,810 --> 00:11:37,650
Four of them.
He took it like a sport.

262
00:11:37,660 --> 00:11:39,940
He was laughing, he was annoyed.
He lost, but he was laughing as

263
00:11:39,950 --> 00:11:40,910
well.
And it was just one of them

264
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,480
moments.
I was just like this.

265
00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:45,100
Not even I I know.
I flipped it and I tried to

266
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:47,400
trick them a bit.
Level was triangle.

267
00:11:47,410 --> 00:11:50,450
Triangle was never the answer.
How many sides does this take?

268
00:11:50,490 --> 00:11:52,420
Triangle.
Did you did you leave school

269
00:11:52,430 --> 00:11:54,290
that day?
Thinking I'm so glad that I

270
00:11:54,300 --> 00:11:57,630
spent my weekend planning and
planning a bunch of lessons and

271
00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,610
teaching them earlier in the
week about all these shapes and

272
00:12:00,620 --> 00:12:05,070
triangles.
Ohh, but yeah, that just one of

273
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,900
those one of those moments in
class where you're genuinely

274
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:10,800
just just laughing.
So I love just like in despair,

275
00:12:10,810 --> 00:12:12,080
but funny as well.
I love that.

276
00:12:12,130 --> 00:12:15,720
And there was one other thing,
and I know this is probably

277
00:12:15,730 --> 00:12:17,570
looking at the timestamp
thinking, why are these guys

278
00:12:17,580 --> 00:12:19,780
talking?
The last thing.

279
00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:24,400
No, because I know this is, this
is an e-mail, right?

280
00:12:24,410 --> 00:12:26,140
We we had someone right here.
Come on.

281
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:29,710
Yeah, go on about it.
And and you know, we love

282
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,410
hearing your stories, OK.
And and we have, I must say, we

283
00:12:32,420 --> 00:12:34,420
have a lot of listeners.
We're we're just gonna say to

284
00:12:34,430 --> 00:12:36,920
you, Hayden, we're in 20
countries that that blows my

285
00:12:36,930 --> 00:12:39,060
mind.
This podcast is streamed in the

286
00:12:39,070 --> 00:12:41,680
last seven days constantly at
about 20 countries.

287
00:12:41,690 --> 00:12:45,680
So we have repeated listeners in
countries like Canada,

288
00:12:45,730 --> 00:12:47,140
Australia.
We've got a big following.

289
00:12:47,150 --> 00:12:49,190
If you're in Australia and
you're listening right now how

290
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,430
do you do, mate?
And thank you for the Ashes

291
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:52,510
drubbing that you're giving.
Us.

292
00:12:52,630 --> 00:12:55,490
Yeah, if you if you guys
wouldn't mind just changing your

293
00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:58,460
VPNs so that you're in a
different country when you next

294
00:12:58,470 --> 00:13:00,920
log into your browser, then it
will make it like we've got even

295
00:13:00,930 --> 00:13:01,860
more.
So that would be really

296
00:13:01,870 --> 00:13:04,020
appreciated too.
Yes, because everyone knows what

297
00:13:04,030 --> 00:13:06,660
a VPN is, Yes.
If they do, they're going.

298
00:13:07,740 --> 00:13:09,170
If they don't, they're just
skipping.

299
00:13:09,180 --> 00:13:10,480
Past.
If they don't, they think it's

300
00:13:10,490 --> 00:13:12,780
just another word for pedagogy
that we're not going to explain.

301
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,050
Yeah, right.
Go on.

302
00:13:14,060 --> 00:13:16,660
What's this e-mail?
Anyway, so firstly started off

303
00:13:16,670 --> 00:13:18,200
really strong.
I was hooked straight away.

304
00:13:18,250 --> 00:13:20,200
Hey, Lord Voldemort and the
northern one?

305
00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:25,010
That's Alistair right there.
So this guy was talking about

306
00:13:25,020 --> 00:13:27,360
how he loves the podcast.
He's found it out.

307
00:13:27,370 --> 00:13:29,680
David Brent, moment again.
He's like, I'm already on #11,

308
00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:32,060
so he's been just bingeing the
podcast, having found it.

309
00:13:32,270 --> 00:13:34,000
So that's great to hear and he's
enjoying it.

310
00:13:34,010 --> 00:13:37,940
And he said that despite our
fears, Hayden, that he's making

311
00:13:37,950 --> 00:13:39,210
us realise why he loves
teaching.

312
00:13:39,220 --> 00:13:41,360
So that's nice to hear because
we do want to, we don't want to

313
00:13:41,370 --> 00:13:42,900
be putting people off the
profession because it is.

314
00:13:42,910 --> 00:13:45,100
It does have lots of pros.
We don't listen to that last

315
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:48,640
episode.
Skip a couple of the words.

316
00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:50,540
Yeah, the one that got us a one
star review.

317
00:13:52,090 --> 00:13:55,460
But anyway, funny enough, this
is a story though from him about

318
00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:57,370
toxic schools.
So toxic and salty.

319
00:13:57,380 --> 00:13:59,650
OK.
So I'm going to read this

320
00:13:59,660 --> 00:14:01,480
through to give you some
background on me.

321
00:14:01,490 --> 00:14:03,900
So I'm reading it as him
obviously have some background

322
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:05,740
on me.
I started my teacher training PC

323
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:08,940
in September 2019.
So you know what's coming and

324
00:14:08,950 --> 00:14:12,000
straight away I was like, ohh
what a year to start training

325
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:13,810
Hayden.
COVID, right?

326
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:18,800
COVID So excuse me, I loved
every minute until the COVID

327
00:14:18,810 --> 00:14:22,560
curbed it in March, leaving me
not only to have to leave my

328
00:14:22,570 --> 00:14:25,200
school but to then go to online
learning up until the end of

329
00:14:25,210 --> 00:14:27,560
June.
So when he says leave school he

330
00:14:27,570 --> 00:14:29,620
means out of the classroom,
which obviously the best bit.

331
00:14:30,070 --> 00:14:32,640
As a consequence I had to get a
full time job working as a

332
00:14:32,650 --> 00:14:35,340
domestic assistant at my local
hospital whilst trying to find a

333
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:37,220
teaching job.
How amazing is that by the way,

334
00:14:37,230 --> 00:14:39,450
in the COVID pandemic to go out
and get a job at your hospital

335
00:14:39,460 --> 00:14:41,220
to help out in the meantime?
Yes, I thought, that's

336
00:14:41,230 --> 00:14:44,220
brilliant.
It took me until November 2020

337
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:47,220
to find a fixed term.
Maternity contract cover, so

338
00:14:47,230 --> 00:14:51,120
it's not ideal but it's good.
But then that was affected by

339
00:14:51,130 --> 00:14:53,350
the next lockdown.
So not only did I miss months

340
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,500
and months of training in the
classroom, which as we know is

341
00:14:55,510 --> 00:14:58,400
vital for those newly qualified
teachers, I was now having to

342
00:14:58,410 --> 00:15:01,220
teach a completely different way
after only a couple of months of

343
00:15:01,230 --> 00:15:02,760
doing the job.
So back online.

344
00:15:02,950 --> 00:15:05,460
Sorry for this being long winded
but it just built up to my

345
00:15:05,470 --> 00:15:07,820
point.
At the end of the year another

346
00:15:07,830 --> 00:15:11,210
fixed term position at the same
school became available so I

347
00:15:11,220 --> 00:15:13,400
applied, interviewed and I got
that job.

348
00:15:13,470 --> 00:15:16,060
So he's on to his second fixed
term contract in this school.

349
00:15:16,130 --> 00:15:19,650
Yeah, and he was thrilled that
he could finish his NQT year at

350
00:15:19,660 --> 00:15:21,930
the same school, which is a
really important thing, I think,

351
00:15:21,940 --> 00:15:24,090
to to have that consistency in
your training.

352
00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:25,570
His newly qualified teacher?
Yeah.

353
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:27,760
He's new to call you.
Thanks very much.

354
00:15:27,770 --> 00:15:28,800
Not even called that anymore
his.

355
00:15:28,810 --> 00:15:33,610
His his VPN year and yeah, even
more so when I passed in

356
00:15:33,620 --> 00:15:36,080
December 2021.
So all good so far.

357
00:15:36,090 --> 00:15:38,660
Passed in his second fixed term
maternity contract.

358
00:15:38,750 --> 00:15:42,380
What I haven't mentioned at this
point is that I wasn't the only

359
00:15:42,390 --> 00:15:44,880
teacher in the school on a fixed
term contract this year.

360
00:15:44,890 --> 00:15:46,890
Now this Hayden, by the way, is
my first red flag.

361
00:15:47,860 --> 00:15:52,810
There were seven of us on fixed
term contracts and we all knew

362
00:15:52,820 --> 00:15:55,930
they were all made aware very
much so that there were only

363
00:15:55,940 --> 00:15:58,450
four contracts up for Grab at
the end of the year.

364
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,410
So only four permanent jobs
available, 7 on fixed term.

365
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:02,600
We know that can happen
sometimes.

366
00:16:02,610 --> 00:16:03,890
We've been trying to cover et
cetera.

367
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,290
But when you've got 7 on a fixed
term contract that does kind of

368
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:12,420
strike strike you as a bit odd.
Queue the showdown, which by the

369
00:16:12,430 --> 00:16:16,180
way there is all feel great.
I can sense the sarcasm there in

370
00:16:16,190 --> 00:16:19,540
which I was unsuccessful.
Gutted wouldn't describe what I

371
00:16:19,550 --> 00:16:21,460
felt.
They trained me.

372
00:16:21,530 --> 00:16:24,390
Why was that sorry?
Why was what I was doing not

373
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,200
good enough for them if they
trained him?

374
00:16:26,270 --> 00:16:29,180
So I applied for other schools
and was told multiple times that

375
00:16:29,190 --> 00:16:32,240
I was second place.
I was beginning to lose hope.

376
00:16:32,290 --> 00:16:35,240
However, there was another
chance later on in the year as

377
00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:38,700
another contract was up for
grabs at his current school, so

378
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:41,060
another one had become available
other than the four.

379
00:16:41,370 --> 00:16:43,730
I'm just going to say right now,
it's a common theme We see,

380
00:16:43,770 --> 00:16:45,810
especially with newly qualified
teachers, that that kind of

381
00:16:45,820 --> 00:16:47,460
anxiety about just securing a
job.

382
00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:49,880
And you know that.
That's the problem trap.

383
00:16:49,950 --> 00:16:54,020
I hated that.
Yeah and and I think his point

384
00:16:54,030 --> 00:16:56,460
here comes into fruition a
minute about they trained him so

385
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:58,660
it's very odd they thought he
wasn't capable of going on

386
00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:01,220
anyway.
So interviews coming up.

387
00:17:01,230 --> 00:17:03,620
I went from my lesson thousands
of times, asked staff best

388
00:17:03,630 --> 00:17:05,420
friends what they thought and
they all said it was a really

389
00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:07,099
good lesson.
So I did the lesson.

390
00:17:07,109 --> 00:17:09,300
I was asked back for the
interview and then when I got

391
00:17:09,310 --> 00:17:11,260
home I waited and waited for the
phone call.

392
00:17:11,470 --> 00:17:16,280
At half six the head rang and
said we're not hiring anyone for

393
00:17:16,290 --> 00:17:19,140
the second time.
I was not good enough and this

394
00:17:19,150 --> 00:17:21,619
time I was angry.
I asked for feedback.

395
00:17:21,630 --> 00:17:24,310
Very common thing in teaching.
To ask that feedback so that you

396
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,329
can know it's the next time, and
within it with some fair points

397
00:17:27,339 --> 00:17:29,360
about how I'd answer some of the
interview questions.

398
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,830
But then my teaching was openly
questioned and the final killer

399
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,670
line as I left was you're not
quite ready to teach our school.

400
00:17:36,980 --> 00:17:41,270
I wanted to scream back, but you
trained me and lots of other

401
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,110
rather inappropriate things at
this particular member of SLT,

402
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:46,900
who clearly did not rate me as
the two times she observed me

403
00:17:46,910 --> 00:17:48,390
with the two times I was turned
down.

404
00:17:48,620 --> 00:17:51,770
Anyway, now I ended up just
doing the professional minimum

405
00:17:51,780 --> 00:17:55,340
ticking work, not making it to
code. 8:30 to 4:00 going home as

406
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:57,320
soon as possible and no.
Work my guy.

407
00:17:57,710 --> 00:18:01,880
Yeah, that's my guy right there.
He put all of his energy into

408
00:18:01,890 --> 00:18:04,740
finding himself a job, to which
thankfully he did, but yet again

409
00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:07,140
it was another fixed term
contract in another school.

410
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:11,450
Nevertheless, I then found out
that the person who did actually

411
00:18:11,460 --> 00:18:14,480
get the job in my old school, so
they did hire someone on the

412
00:18:14,490 --> 00:18:18,180
last day of term, was the deputy
head's niece.

413
00:18:18,190 --> 00:18:19,620
I know he was going to say
family.

414
00:18:19,630 --> 00:18:21,060
I knew it was going to be
family.

415
00:18:21,330 --> 00:18:23,420
Course nepotism.
Nepotism's finest.

416
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:25,440
I still keep in touch with all
the staff in the school.

417
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:28,090
And this year, even though they
did not put her for a CT,

418
00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:31,430
they've given the deputy head
niece a full time contract after

419
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,350
interview when the job
advertised was for a fixed term

420
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,050
contract.
I mean fair to say I'm glad I'm

421
00:18:37,060 --> 00:18:39,670
out of there and somewhere I
feel valued as a staff member.

422
00:18:39,740 --> 00:18:41,820
I thought it was a nice ending
to his story where he went

423
00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:45,110
somewhere else, but that I read
that and I I replied to him

424
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:48,080
saying our jaw dropped to the
floor a few times about just

425
00:18:48,090 --> 00:18:51,030
reading through that.
But I will also say it doesn't

426
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,570
remotely surprise me.
I can think of a lot of

427
00:18:52,580 --> 00:18:55,190
workplaces where that would be
absolutely run-of-the-mill and I

428
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,040
can see it happening.
You know what you would say?

429
00:18:57,210 --> 00:18:59,600
He's probably listening right
now, so I'll tell you she'd say

430
00:18:59,670 --> 00:19:01,230
yes.
Who you know, so you know.

431
00:19:02,290 --> 00:19:04,880
It's fair game.
So, you know, make contacts.

432
00:19:05,490 --> 00:19:06,990
It's about you know, not what
you know.

433
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:12,630
I just, I just, I I thought #1,
thank you so much for letting us

434
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,840
know about this.
Yeah, #2 that that that that

435
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,270
kind of trying to get a job when
you just started teaching.

436
00:19:20,340 --> 00:19:22,910
I think it's it really does get
to some people and I see a lot

437
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,270
of it online.
I'm like, oh, I've still not

438
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,120
secured somewhere and we know
how retention is so low in

439
00:19:27,130 --> 00:19:29,390
teaching.
It seems a bit of an oxymoron

440
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,050
here, like why is retention so
low and recruitment so tricky,

441
00:19:32,060 --> 00:19:34,290
but then some people really
struggle to get a job and it

442
00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:36,550
just depends area to area.
Yeah, And he says.

443
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,550
Like you trained me.
I wouldn't be surprised, mate.

444
00:19:38,620 --> 00:19:40,560
If they didn't train you at all,
if they didn't really do

445
00:19:40,570 --> 00:19:43,060
anything to actually contribute
to a training, because that is

446
00:19:43,070 --> 00:19:45,320
what often happens.
I've seen anyway, when when

447
00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:48,080
schools turn down their own
trainees, it's like, yeah, they

448
00:19:48,090 --> 00:19:49,920
didn't actually do any training,
I didn't really put anything in

449
00:19:49,930 --> 00:19:51,900
place for them and they're like,
Oh no, you're not good enough.

450
00:19:51,910 --> 00:19:53,600
So, well, you've had a year to
help me.

451
00:19:53,670 --> 00:19:56,440
Like what you doing?
Rubbish, rubbish.

452
00:19:56,450 --> 00:19:58,800
But it sounds like they just
wanted you out so they could get

453
00:19:58,850 --> 00:20:00,660
someone else in they had in mind
already.

454
00:20:01,210 --> 00:20:03,400
Yeah, Ohh.
Would it be the niece of the

455
00:20:03,410 --> 00:20:05,670
assistant head?
Potential I know an assistant

456
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,000
head and a niece that will be
giving us a one star review.

457
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,210
Ohh dear.
We probably can't say the one we

458
00:20:13,220 --> 00:20:14,550
done.
We can't say that name.

459
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,740
We don't.
We don't know.

460
00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:18,170
Just in case we're not doing it
on purpose, but I'll just say

461
00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:20,500
big up that person.
Thank you for writing in.

462
00:20:20,510 --> 00:20:21,930
That was a really, really nice
e-mail.

463
00:20:21,940 --> 00:20:24,160
He's put so much care and
thought into that and we

464
00:20:24,170 --> 00:20:26,790
appreciated it massively.
We'd like to see some more

465
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,430
people writing in, which you can
do at the following handles.

466
00:20:31,540 --> 00:20:36,270
Dylan, it's my turn.
You can e-mail us at

467
00:20:36,380 --> 00:20:39,280
teachsleeprepeatpod@gmail.com.
You can find us on Instagram at

468
00:20:39,290 --> 00:20:41,240
Teach Sleep, Repeat podcast.
You can find me on Twitter.

469
00:20:41,330 --> 00:20:44,810
Because it is me and not Hayden
that teacher Sr podcast.

470
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:46,930
Or you could text us if you've
got our number.

471
00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:50,400
I said that last time.
It wasn't funny then, but I said

472
00:20:50,410 --> 00:20:51,960
it again.
It was less funny now.

473
00:20:52,030 --> 00:20:53,860
So Dylan, I think we need to
move on.

474
00:20:53,930 --> 00:20:55,740
We need to move.
On So come back after the

475
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:57,130
Jingle, Hayden.
What can they do in the meantime

476
00:20:57,140 --> 00:20:57,860
while she was?
Playing.

477
00:20:57,870 --> 00:20:59,560
I'm not.
I'm not doing this joke again.

478
00:20:59,630 --> 00:21:01,170
I'm not sure what do I do.
I'm not doing it.

479
00:21:02,660 --> 00:21:03,750
That's it.
Get a cup of tea.

480
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:04,300
Have a.
Break.

481
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:06,310
Don't be ridiculous.
It's not long enough to do that,

482
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,250
you idiot.
Geez.

483
00:21:08,260 --> 00:21:10,580
Anyway, come back after Jiggle
and we'll talk to our super

484
00:21:10,590 --> 00:21:16,880
special guest.
Start with us.

485
00:21:16,890 --> 00:21:20,140
Today we have our next guest.
I'm super excited for this one.

486
00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:22,960
I know Hayden super excited.
We always have a bit of tension

487
00:21:22,970 --> 00:21:24,780
here and Hayden gives us a fake
drum roll.

488
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:27,840
A fake drum roll, even though
everyone's read in the title.

489
00:21:27,850 --> 00:21:30,430
Who it.
Is it's Emily Weston?

490
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,460
Hello, Emily.
Hi, how you doing?

491
00:21:32,570 --> 00:21:33,690
I'm good.
I'm really good.

492
00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:35,680
Thank you.
And I'm gonna just expose us

493
00:21:35,690 --> 00:21:37,680
right now because we pretend
that we're saying hello for the

494
00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:38,810
first time.
We just spent 10 minutes

495
00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:42,280
talking, so none of.
That stop breaking the 4th wall

496
00:21:42,290 --> 00:21:43,620
of the podcast.
Man, come on.

497
00:21:43,980 --> 00:21:47,050
Wait here, we fooling?
Anyway, Emily, we're super

498
00:21:47,060 --> 00:21:48,970
excited.
We've recently getting some

499
00:21:48,980 --> 00:21:52,230
guests on our podcast.
We had Sophie, we've had Gareth

500
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,310
Metcalfe, who's been on the
podcast as well.

501
00:21:54,510 --> 00:21:58,170
You're our 3rd guest.
But again, one of the people who

502
00:21:58,180 --> 00:22:00,330
sprung to my mind straight away
when I was like, who can we get

503
00:22:00,340 --> 00:22:03,130
in the podcast?
Because much like Sophie, I

504
00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:06,810
suppose you have quite a
following on social media.

505
00:22:07,370 --> 00:22:10,070
I would say influential in this
sphere.

506
00:22:10,380 --> 00:22:12,710
But before we get into too much
detail about we're going to talk

507
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,020
about today, I just want you to.
Maybe just introduce yourself by

508
00:22:16,030 --> 00:22:18,820
telling us how long you've been
teaching, what your main role in

509
00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:21,320
school is, and what your
passions are in education.

510
00:22:22,410 --> 00:22:24,620
So I've been teaching for nine
years now.

511
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:27,770
So yeah, come September, have
been teaching for a decade,

512
00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:31,620
which seems wild.
My main passions and teaching,

513
00:22:31,630 --> 00:22:33,800
reading.
I think anyone who's seen what I

514
00:22:33,810 --> 00:22:37,040
do knows that.
But also transition between

515
00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:41,290
primary and secondary because I
have been in year six for, oh, I

516
00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:43,460
want to say six years now.
But I've also taught in

517
00:22:43,470 --> 00:22:45,320
secondary school as a transition
teacher.

518
00:22:45,330 --> 00:22:48,310
So I did a year in secondary,
which I think completely changed

519
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,470
my teaching.
I'm so glad I did it, but it's

520
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,130
really led to me, to me sort of
having that passion.

521
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,540
They're getting year six is
ready for year seven, having

522
00:22:55,550 --> 00:22:59,800
like a year 6.5 where they're
sort of trained because it is a

523
00:22:59,810 --> 00:23:02,380
completely different
environment, and just feel it,

524
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:04,980
feeling confident to go up and
make that next step.

525
00:23:04,990 --> 00:23:07,960
I think that's where my passion
has really come alive over the

526
00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:10,850
last few years.
That's perfect because I think

527
00:23:10,860 --> 00:23:12,770
what we'll dive into are
basically those two main things

528
00:23:12,780 --> 00:23:13,750
there.
And I think the listeners are

529
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,730
really looking forward to
getting a chunk into your

530
00:23:15,740 --> 00:23:17,810
expertise for reading.
Because I know Hayden and I are

531
00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:20,750
very maths orientated in the way
we approach education, so

532
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,590
getting that aspect will be
really cool.

533
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:26,110
And Hayden as well as a year six
teacher, that idea of

534
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,510
transition, I'm less involved,
so it fascinates me, that kind

535
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,180
of journey, so I'll be listening
intently there.

536
00:23:32,190 --> 00:23:34,210
Yeah, I'm really excited.
Like given the point of year as

537
00:23:34,220 --> 00:23:36,030
well, I'm looking forward to
like hearing a bit more about

538
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,870
your experience of that.
But I know Dylan wants to start

539
00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:41,120
with a little game.
He likes to play, he likes to

540
00:23:41,130 --> 00:23:43,390
torment our guests with this,
you know, this little game at

541
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:44,760
the start because he's a bit
evil.

542
00:23:44,930 --> 00:23:46,880
So I'll hand back over to you,
Dylan.

543
00:23:47,130 --> 00:23:49,680
This, this genuinely this was
supposed to be a really nice,

544
00:23:49,690 --> 00:23:52,120
light hearted thing, but every
time we've done it so far we

545
00:23:52,130 --> 00:23:53,780
have people with like sweaty
palms.

546
00:23:53,890 --> 00:23:55,880
They're like worried they're
going to say the wrong thing.

547
00:23:55,950 --> 00:23:58,940
Neither we.
Not quite.

548
00:23:59,780 --> 00:24:02,690
But the the point of the game,
and you've seen it before and I

549
00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:05,190
know you know about this game,
you've seen Sophie go through

550
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,970
it.
I say go through it now that

551
00:24:06,980 --> 00:24:08,080
it's like a really.
Negative.

552
00:24:08,090 --> 00:24:10,210
Yeah.
See, you're making it sound bad.

553
00:24:10,220 --> 00:24:10,770
Yourself.
Yeah.

554
00:24:10,780 --> 00:24:12,690
My parents weren't sweating
until you said that, But.

555
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,480
And that's what we like to start
the podcast off with, making

556
00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:18,300
people feel as uncomfortable as
possible.

557
00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:21,820
So the way we're going to do
this is I'm going to read out 10

558
00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:25,630
words or phrases, and all I want
from you, Emily, is your first

559
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,220
thought.
So one word reply where

560
00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:29,180
possible.
Maybe we'll let you have two for

561
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:31,500
feeling nice.
But just your first response.

562
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:32,150
Yeah.
OK.

563
00:24:32,190 --> 00:24:35,030
So Hayden, I'm going to always
do an example on Hayden.

564
00:24:35,770 --> 00:24:37,460
Hayden.
Just to show everyone how this

565
00:24:37,470 --> 00:24:39,320
works.
If I said to you muggy

566
00:24:39,330 --> 00:24:44,360
classrooms, you would say.
Horrible.

567
00:24:44,530 --> 00:24:45,960
Horrible.
There you go.

568
00:24:46,010 --> 00:24:49,670
So we all know school classrooms
right now are not the place to

569
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,280
be in.
Especially in upper school.

570
00:24:51,570 --> 00:24:54,300
Not the nicest environment after
lunch.

571
00:24:54,310 --> 00:24:56,600
So ready, Emily.
Yes, I'm ready.

572
00:24:57,210 --> 00:24:58,860
Marking.
Unnecessary.

573
00:24:59,910 --> 00:25:02,320
Reading.
Amazing.

574
00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:06,080
Term 6.
Fun.

575
00:25:07,310 --> 00:25:09,340
Twinkle.
Useful.

576
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,440
Transition.
Important.

577
00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:16,320
See, we could have just stopped
the podcast there.

578
00:25:16,330 --> 00:25:17,400
That's it.
That's our transition.

579
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:18,520
That's.
It.

580
00:25:20,230 --> 00:25:22,000
Yes.
I'm just gonna say you're

581
00:25:22,010 --> 00:25:23,910
smashing this.
Ohh, come on this.

582
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,690
Is actually read this list of
something next one sats.

583
00:25:28,030 --> 00:25:32,430
Controversial.
Good teacher, well-being.

584
00:25:33,570 --> 00:25:35,850
Vital.
Planning.

585
00:25:37,870 --> 00:25:40,550
Waste of time.
Let's squeeze that together with

586
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,360
one word.
Quite quick and it counts.

587
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,230
Yeah.
Underused.

588
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:54,650
Hmm, Ofsted.
Change.

589
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,720
I think that's the most popular
answer, that one because so

590
00:25:58,730 --> 00:26:01,950
politic, so politically correct.
I I really look forward to that

591
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,860
because we, I think we've used
that one with everybody and

592
00:26:04,990 --> 00:26:06,520
there's always been really
interesting answers.

593
00:26:06,530 --> 00:26:09,240
Can we just really quickly
before we go into the main

594
00:26:09,330 --> 00:26:12,640
discussion points for PA, you
said under used.

595
00:26:12,650 --> 00:26:14,380
I just want to know what you
mean by that because I'm

596
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:16,620
intrigued.
I think that it's just not

597
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:20,060
utilised in the right way.
I think lots of people don't

598
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:23,720
actually use it to target what
needs to be done because you're

599
00:26:23,870 --> 00:26:27,200
never in that quiet space,
you're always being pulled for

600
00:26:27,210 --> 00:26:30,880
other things.
Think you know, the work is put

601
00:26:30,890 --> 00:26:33,320
on you and I think actually you
end up fighting fires rather

602
00:26:33,330 --> 00:26:35,080
than doing the work that
underpins everything in the

603
00:26:35,090 --> 00:26:38,370
classroom.
And I I think that PA actually.

604
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,900
Is sort of seen as something
that we get and maybe not seen

605
00:26:42,910 --> 00:26:46,090
as something that we should use
efficiently.

606
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:48,450
I I don't know if that's just
the schools that I've been in

607
00:26:48,460 --> 00:26:51,430
but I've found that actually
I've I've personally never been

608
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,970
able to use my PA properly
because of all the other things

609
00:26:53,980 --> 00:26:56,280
that come up and all the other
fires I'm have to I have to

610
00:26:56,290 --> 00:26:59,970
fight in the in the day and it
needs, it just needs a revamp

611
00:26:59,980 --> 00:27:02,310
maybe.
What would be your perfect use

612
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,590
of PA?
To genuinely just get your your

613
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,760
lessons and your resources
prepared for the next week, I

614
00:27:08,770 --> 00:27:12,450
think so often marking is
involved and actually it does.

615
00:27:12,460 --> 00:27:14,790
If you're having to sit there in
your PA and it's not in the

616
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,970
moment, it's probably not gonna
have an impact.

617
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:20,950
I think things like although
it's got assessment on it, you

618
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,680
know PA is part of assessment.
If the assessment is so onerous,

619
00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:27,270
it's taking all of your PA to do
and you can't be prepared for

620
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,180
the week after.
It's not gonna be it's not gonna

621
00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:32,920
be useful.
So I guess, I guess underused.

622
00:27:32,930 --> 00:27:36,080
I think maybe undervalued would
have been a better word for it.

623
00:27:36,090 --> 00:27:38,550
Yeah, OK.
That that is dependent on

624
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,600
school.
Sims do it really well, but I I

625
00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:42,630
haven't seen it done really well
anywhere I've been.

626
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,570
I've got to say as well, just
jumping on that because I think

627
00:27:45,580 --> 00:27:49,210
the frustrations lie definitely
on us from Hayden Nine in the

628
00:27:49,220 --> 00:27:51,150
past.
Saying that it feels like it's a

629
00:27:51,220 --> 00:27:53,930
bit of a token job and like you
said, you don't quite can't sink

630
00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:56,310
your teeth into actually is
required to deliver.

631
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,980
Teaching properly just
fascinates me.

632
00:27:58,990 --> 00:28:01,440
What you said about being
underused because it's not

633
00:28:01,450 --> 00:28:03,820
something we've delved into.
And I want to just kind of pick

634
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:07,410
your brain a little bit here
because do you feel like.

635
00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:11,170
It's a it's something coming
from teachers themselves.

636
00:28:11,460 --> 00:28:14,290
Or do you feel like it's kind of
our hands are tied and therefore

637
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:16,610
it becomes a waste of time?
Do you feel like I feel

638
00:28:16,620 --> 00:28:19,950
sometimes myself, I waste that
time because I end up thinking,

639
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,810
ohh, well you know, maybe I can
just get that marking done I

640
00:28:22,820 --> 00:28:25,110
would have done after school
normally and then I can complain

641
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:27,630
after school even though I've
left school early, I'm like,

642
00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:29,970
well actually wait, did I use
that time properly?

643
00:28:30,060 --> 00:28:33,310
Would you say it's more teachers
being proactively not using the

644
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,710
time properly?
Or maybe like you said from the

645
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,710
top down a bit more, you just
expected to do so much?

646
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,090
I think it's top down because I
think if you use it, it's.

647
00:28:41,980 --> 00:28:44,550
Like PPA, time is planning,
preparation and assessment, and

648
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,440
assessment is marking, right?
I think if the marking needs to

649
00:28:47,450 --> 00:28:51,390
be done, doing it in your PA
time is still a good use of your

650
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,620
time.
However, if that is onerous to

651
00:28:53,630 --> 00:28:56,470
the point of you are spending
your whole PA having to do that,

652
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,490
then that's an intrinsic
problem.

653
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:01,570
I think I've loved this year at
the current school that I'm at.

654
00:29:01,580 --> 00:29:04,970
We get to go home for PA We're a
wonderful, mentary school, so

655
00:29:04,980 --> 00:29:08,050
we're able to do that.
And I am so much more productive

656
00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:11,340
because I can go home, have that
break to have my lunch, be in my

657
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:13,860
own environment.
Sit at my kitchen table, Potter

658
00:29:13,870 --> 00:29:16,250
about, You know what I mean?
It's it's a bit more relaxed.

659
00:29:16,260 --> 00:29:18,650
So I I get more done.
The books stay at school because

660
00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:21,830
they're being used or they're,
you know, I'm not bringing them

661
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,090
all home.
So actually I get so much more

662
00:29:24,100 --> 00:29:26,580
done because I can just sit on
my laptop in a familiar, quiet

663
00:29:26,590 --> 00:29:28,900
space.
Whereas actually at school I end

664
00:29:28,910 --> 00:29:31,420
up sat in the back of an office
or in the staff room.

665
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:34,440
And you never actually end up
doing your work as someone pulls

666
00:29:34,450 --> 00:29:36,140
you for this, that and the
other.

667
00:29:37,170 --> 00:29:39,250
I think it's from the top down.
I think it's just how each

668
00:29:39,260 --> 00:29:42,330
school uses it and as I said,
some must do it really well, but

669
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,510
so far I found that.
I I just think there's a lot

670
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,570
more room for work on it to help
teachers be more productive.

671
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,550
I think I fully, fully agree
with you and I'm reflecting on

672
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:57,170
my 8 years in the game as well.
And I have never once, ever,

673
00:29:57,180 --> 00:30:00,710
ever, ever in the three schools
I've worked at used a PPA to

674
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,470
plan a single lesson ever.
I've just never done it and I

675
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,150
always put it down to me.
I'm always like no, no, I just

676
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,450
can't.
I just can't focus.

677
00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:11,470
I just can't focus.
But in reality, if I was at

678
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,210
home.
I would plan because that's what

679
00:30:14,220 --> 00:30:15,410
that is where I plan.
I plan at home.

680
00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:18,010
And actually, I don't think the
PPA is like, I don't think it's

681
00:30:18,020 --> 00:30:21,130
me in P that's the problem.
I think it's probably what you

682
00:30:21,140 --> 00:30:23,350
said.
It's more that I don't, I can't

683
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,510
get my teeth stuck into it.
So I hate and I hate starting

684
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,890
things, but I can't like do and
finish and fully be involved.

685
00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:32,610
And I need all of my brain.
And you just know that in PPA

686
00:30:32,620 --> 00:30:34,480
you're gonna get disturbed or
you're gonna be working with

687
00:30:34,490 --> 00:30:36,490
other people.
As people around, as great as

688
00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:39,220
that can be, it can be quite
hard to just get involved

689
00:30:39,230 --> 00:30:40,890
because suddenly there's
conversation you need to be part

690
00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:42,230
of.
Now what we can do next week for

691
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,350
this thing.
Trying to do this, OK.

692
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,810
I'm now in this conversation, so
I think you're absolutely right.

693
00:30:46,850 --> 00:30:50,070
I would really like PPA at home.
I think that I think that's a

694
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,200
good move.
Yeah, I love it.

695
00:30:53,210 --> 00:30:55,920
I think like some some weeks as
well because I know that I've

696
00:30:55,930 --> 00:30:58,850
got that whole then from
lunchtime up until really the

697
00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:01,230
end of Tuesday evening and you
can you can plan out how you

698
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:02,820
want to.
Sometimes I'll go to the gym on

699
00:31:02,830 --> 00:31:05,540
my lunch break for that hour and
then I will come home.

700
00:31:05,550 --> 00:31:08,280
But then I said I'll work till 5
because actually I've gone.

701
00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:11,580
I've had that mind break.
I've had that sort of reset and

702
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:13,920
then I come back and I'm so much
more productive because I'm not

703
00:31:13,930 --> 00:31:16,450
thinking Oh well, I've got to go
to the gym later and I've got to

704
00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:18,630
pick up my food shop.
Like I can almost have that sort

705
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,750
of reset hour to do that and
then get on and just.

706
00:31:21,820 --> 00:31:25,980
Getting solidly work for a few
hours I it works for me.

707
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:29,080
I know some people might think
ohh I'd hate that, but I I

708
00:31:29,090 --> 00:31:31,180
really love it.
And yeah, I don't get distracted

709
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:35,160
by children stuff other people
that are around.

710
00:31:35,310 --> 00:31:36,780
It's it's that autonomy, isn't
it?

711
00:31:36,790 --> 00:31:38,780
Like as professionals I'm like,
I'm not being funny.

712
00:31:38,850 --> 00:31:41,660
The list of things we've got to
do is going to get done,

713
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:43,340
otherwise the job wouldn't
function.

714
00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:47,420
So the idea of being trusted
enough to go off site, and I've

715
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:50,460
heard sometimes from people who
get their PPA off-site, they've

716
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:52,420
kind of also been instructed to
not be seen.

717
00:31:52,490 --> 00:31:54,400
Out during what would be PA
hours.

718
00:31:54,410 --> 00:31:56,670
You know, like, ohh, no, you
can't go, you can't nip to the

719
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,240
shop and it's like, well, no,
that's really useful for me.

720
00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:01,570
And then do you know what?
If I can get that stuff done, I

721
00:32:01,580 --> 00:32:03,730
might look at the clock later
when it's half six and I'm still

722
00:32:03,740 --> 00:32:06,000
working and you might actually
get more out of me as a result.

723
00:32:06,010 --> 00:32:08,650
So it's really interesting.
Yeah, I think if we as teachers,

724
00:32:08,660 --> 00:32:10,290
if we get it done, we get it
done.

725
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,990
My planning ultimately has to be
done for the week after my

726
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,090
lessons have to be resourced.
Does it matter if I do it at

727
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,810
between 1:00 and 3:00 or whether
I do it between 11:00 PM and

728
00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:21,500
1:00 AM?
It doesn't matter as long as

729
00:32:21,510 --> 00:32:23,790
I've got that work done and
actually it just gives you.

730
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,760
A little bit more freedom that
people in most other jobs get.

731
00:32:26,930 --> 00:32:29,540
And you know, we don't.
We're really tied down to those

732
00:32:29,550 --> 00:32:33,160
hours, even our lunch breaks,
unless you work nearby, a few

733
00:32:33,270 --> 00:32:35,370
place where you can do your food
shop, but you, you know, you're

734
00:32:35,380 --> 00:32:36,960
sort of stuck.
Whereas when I worked in an

735
00:32:36,970 --> 00:32:39,620
office only for two years before
I became a teacher.

736
00:32:39,630 --> 00:32:42,040
But there was so much more
freedom with your start times

737
00:32:42,050 --> 00:32:44,140
you're going home times what you
do with your lunch hour.

738
00:32:44,150 --> 00:32:46,740
And I think it just gives you a
little bit of that back, doesn't

739
00:32:46,750 --> 00:32:49,090
it?
Yeah, absolutely.

740
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,290
So that was a great chat.
I love, I love those impromptu

741
00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:53,370
ones.
You know we spend so much time

742
00:32:53,380 --> 00:32:55,240
thinking OK we're gonna talk
about this or that and then all

743
00:32:55,250 --> 00:32:57,470
of a sudden let's talk about PA
for 10 minutes.

744
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,770
But no, I I really interesting
insight there.

745
00:33:00,100 --> 00:33:02,210
I suppose.
Like we said there's two prongs

746
00:33:02,220 --> 00:33:03,730
to this episode we really want
to dive into.

747
00:33:03,740 --> 00:33:06,850
One is the English aspect of,
especially with reading and

748
00:33:06,860 --> 00:33:08,960
whole class reading that I think
we'll start off with and then

749
00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:11,430
we'll finish off with a
transition talk at the end which

750
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,330
I'm really looking forward to.
But just to start us off Emily

751
00:33:14,340 --> 00:33:17,990
with with reading and I know we
touched upon this with Sophie

752
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,550
and she actually named.
She didn't.

753
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,490
They name dropped you in the
episode and said ohh you need to

754
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,080
talk to Emily.
So here we are, we're talking to

755
00:33:23,090 --> 00:33:26,870
Emily because I think one of the
huge things Hayden and I sent

756
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,930
from the community, from our
friends who are teachers as

757
00:33:28,940 --> 00:33:33,410
well, If you're not passionate
about books, which you are a

758
00:33:33,420 --> 00:33:36,550
sense of, ohh am I doing the
best for these children?

759
00:33:36,730 --> 00:33:40,070
You know what's an appropriate
book to pick for children?

760
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,850
How do I know?
Unless I'm reading 5 children's

761
00:33:42,860 --> 00:33:46,310
book a week, which I'm just not
because it's not something that

762
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,440
I want to do in my spare time,
although I find it useful.

763
00:33:49,510 --> 00:33:51,610
So I'm planning.
I don't have that breadth of

764
00:33:51,620 --> 00:33:53,890
knowledge.
So from your point of view, you

765
00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:56,730
know, starting the blog, The
teacher bookworm, your love for

766
00:33:56,740 --> 00:34:00,190
literature, what would be your
advice to kind of those teachers

767
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,250
who don't share the absolute
passion but want to deliver a

768
00:34:03,260 --> 00:34:06,620
quality experience for children?
How, how can we go about that?

769
00:34:07,670 --> 00:34:10,580
I think it's about just sort of
reaching for those experts that

770
00:34:10,590 --> 00:34:14,920
are online and people who do
read a lot of books are going to

771
00:34:14,929 --> 00:34:17,260
be able to give you quite good
opinions on them.

772
00:34:17,310 --> 00:34:19,730
But I think even just if you
don't want to read the whole

773
00:34:19,739 --> 00:34:21,820
book, read the first chapter
because you will get a flavour

774
00:34:21,830 --> 00:34:24,940
of that book, the tone of it.
So if your class are quite

775
00:34:24,949 --> 00:34:27,320
serious class and like a serious
book, you can tell from that

776
00:34:27,330 --> 00:34:30,590
first chapter if it's too funny
for them or if it is going to

777
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,510
hit, you know, hit them in a
place that's going to going to

778
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,610
matter for them.
I think even just reading that

779
00:34:35,620 --> 00:34:37,710
first page or first chapter is
really going to help.

780
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,380
So I would always recommend.
Getting that because going into

781
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:43,020
books blind.
I mean I do read a lot, but I've

782
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:47,520
gone into books blind before and
hated them and it was so hard to

783
00:34:47,530 --> 00:34:49,120
then get the children
passionate.

784
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:51,760
I I wasn't.
And I don't think you need to

785
00:34:51,770 --> 00:34:54,420
like love reading to be
passionate about a story.

786
00:34:54,429 --> 00:34:57,060
But yeah, get a flavour of it by
reading a page.

787
00:34:57,110 --> 00:34:59,260
You know, don't buy the book
sneaking towards stones.

788
00:34:59,370 --> 00:35:03,320
Read the first page first and
then you sort of get the get the

789
00:35:03,330 --> 00:35:04,970
idea of the tone.
But there's such a wealth of

790
00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:06,400
things online.
There's blogs.

791
00:35:06,410 --> 00:35:09,550
There's websites like books for
topics where they can.

792
00:35:09,630 --> 00:35:12,350
Pick out books for different
topics for you and I think you

793
00:35:12,430 --> 00:35:14,570
use those.
Utilise what is around you.

794
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,270
Utilise the experts who do like
reading.

795
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,710
I want to jump on something
really quick there because it's

796
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:23,230
another point that I made that I
sometimes again, I'd love your

797
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:25,890
opinion on this because as
someone who's not necessarily

798
00:35:25,900 --> 00:35:28,890
thinking, I read this children's
book and we have we simply have

799
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:32,170
to do this my and then from the
history lead you might be

800
00:35:32,180 --> 00:35:33,780
saying, oh, actually your topic
this time.

801
00:35:33,790 --> 00:35:35,670
You need to make sure in English
that your books linked to that

802
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,470
topic.
And I'm wondering where you sit

803
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,270
on this kind of seesaw of.
How important is it to have

804
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,690
those cross curricular links in
English?

805
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,130
Or is it more important to be
getting a quality text and maybe

806
00:35:47,180 --> 00:35:49,850
you'd miss out on certain books
because they don't fit the

807
00:35:49,860 --> 00:35:52,470
criteria of your topic?
Like is that a bad thing?

808
00:35:53,330 --> 00:35:55,590
Don't pick the topic, would be
my advice always.

809
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,020
I know some schools ask you to
do it and if they do, obviously

810
00:35:58,030 --> 00:36:02,290
you have to do that, But I
personally would always pick a

811
00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:03,860
book that I know my class are
going to enjoy.

812
00:36:03,870 --> 00:36:07,310
Because actually again like
there's some topics like the the

813
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,720
Maya.
There are no books out there and

814
00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:12,700
you shoehorn in a book about the
jungle or something that's

815
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:15,410
tenuously linked and actually
you then don't really enjoy it

816
00:36:15,420 --> 00:36:19,060
because it's it's very obviously
there for that for that purpose,

817
00:36:19,100 --> 00:36:22,660
whereas actually if you've got.
A class of I've got a class at

818
00:36:22,670 --> 00:36:25,170
the minute who constantly asked
me for football books.

819
00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:28,950
So if I find a book that's got
football in it and inspires them

820
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,950
to keep reading, that's gonna
have a million.

821
00:36:33,310 --> 00:36:36,310
More reasons for them to carry
on reading and actually improve

822
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,830
their writing as well.
So that's that would always be

823
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,190
my advice.
I guess the topics like you

824
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,070
actually, absolutely right,
because the topics you do

825
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,640
definitely, definitely impact
how important that decision it

826
00:36:47,650 --> 00:36:49,290
is.
It like what we'll do like a

827
00:36:49,300 --> 00:36:51,810
classic World War Two topic.
It's such a year 60 kind of

828
00:36:51,820 --> 00:36:53,490
thing and World War, that's
great.

829
00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:56,630
There are so many books out
there that will be recommended

830
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,820
by people that absolutely linked
to our two.

831
00:36:58,830 --> 00:37:03,020
But you're so right, when it's a
topic on like some random point

832
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:05,690
in history or like a geography
unit they're doing, it's like

833
00:37:06,020 --> 00:37:09,010
are we going to sacrifice the
quality of the of the book?

834
00:37:09,090 --> 00:37:11,650
Just to get this linking, which
probably doesn't make much

835
00:37:11,660 --> 00:37:14,630
difference other than look good
on like a cross crinkle, cross

836
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,830
curricular bit of paper that
your school can go.

837
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,810
Hey Ofsted, look how cross
curricular we are.

838
00:37:18,860 --> 00:37:20,990
So I think you're right, we do
need to just take it case by

839
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,150
case and probably not overvalue
the cross curricular.

840
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:25,580
Thing.
Yeah, and like you said, like

841
00:37:25,590 --> 00:37:27,310
World War Two has such a wealth
of books.

842
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,050
And if I was doing a World War
Two topic, I'd probably know one

843
00:37:30,060 --> 00:37:31,750
that I think my class would
enjoy.

844
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,390
But actually.
There were very few topics I've

845
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,630
found where there's genuine
books that I want to use for my

846
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,530
class or think are good to use
with my class.

847
00:37:41,540 --> 00:37:44,410
And actually there's so many
other amazing authors and

848
00:37:44,420 --> 00:37:46,570
amazing books that they can
discover that are gonna carry

849
00:37:46,580 --> 00:37:48,580
them on reading.
Because ultimately that's the

850
00:37:48,590 --> 00:37:50,050
point of using a book in
English, isn't it?

851
00:37:50,060 --> 00:37:53,670
To, yes, improve their writing,
but to keep them wanting to read

852
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,380
and wanting to read on and.
She honing in a book for topic

853
00:37:57,390 --> 00:37:58,790
doesn't always do that, I don't
think.

854
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,930
Yeah, So diving a bit deeper
here then because this is

855
00:38:03,940 --> 00:38:08,330
something again I I'm looking at
you, Emily, as the almost the,

856
00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:11,230
the beacon here of the the
passion for reading and the

857
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:14,230
advocation of how to get quality
books in front of children.

858
00:38:14,410 --> 00:38:17,730
Because I struggle sometimes and
I really wonder where the line

859
00:38:17,740 --> 00:38:20,930
is here because I'm really
passionate about inclusivity and

860
00:38:20,940 --> 00:38:25,740
representation and again whether
that impacts on the quality of

861
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:28,070
the book that I'm picking for my
class for example.

862
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,690
And just a deeper thought I
suppose here the question I'm

863
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:33,250
asking is.
Do you think that there's a

864
00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:36,720
responsibility as the class
teacher to ensure not only

865
00:38:36,730 --> 00:38:39,500
representation of the different
authors and inclusivity of, you

866
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:42,160
know, female, male, different
backgrounds, ethnicity, et

867
00:38:42,170 --> 00:38:45,070
cetera, but also the content of
the books themselves?

868
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,060
Because especially with Pride
Month recently, there's these

869
00:38:49,070 --> 00:38:52,660
backwards opinions of it's bad
just to even have representation

870
00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:54,600
in a book.
Not, not even necessarily.

871
00:38:54,670 --> 00:38:56,760
It's not advocating it.
It's not saying this is the way

872
00:38:56,770 --> 00:38:58,870
to live.
It's simply a character who has

873
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,480
a partner who's the same sex,
the same gender, and there's,

874
00:39:01,490 --> 00:39:02,580
you know.
Throw around?

875
00:39:02,590 --> 00:39:05,300
Should we be informing parents?
Is is this acceptable in primary

876
00:39:05,310 --> 00:39:07,040
school?
I'm just wondering what your

877
00:39:07,050 --> 00:39:09,040
opinion is as someone so
passionate about the breadth of

878
00:39:09,050 --> 00:39:11,150
literature there is.
What's our role as a primary

879
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,660
school teacher?
Should we?

880
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:15,710
Are there certain things we
should be making sure we put in

881
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:16,920
there?
Are there certain lines we

882
00:39:16,930 --> 00:39:19,210
shouldn't cross?
What's our role, really?

883
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,070
I think ultimately your
bookshelf should reflect the

884
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,660
children in your class.
And you know, I I think that

885
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,560
we're helping them exponentially
by showing them themselves in a

886
00:39:30,570 --> 00:39:33,230
book.
And whether that is, you know,

887
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:37,350
having two dads, I know Lee
Newbury's book has that in it

888
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,610
and I think it's an amazing
book.

889
00:39:39,820 --> 00:39:42,810
Or whether it's something like
Elle Mcnicoll where she's got an

890
00:39:42,820 --> 00:39:45,450
autistic character in there.
I think it's so important just

891
00:39:45,460 --> 00:39:48,370
to have those on your shelves.
I don't think picking them as

892
00:39:48,380 --> 00:39:51,070
your class read is necessarily
something that you.

893
00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:53,540
Should have to do through the
year because I think the books

894
00:39:53,590 --> 00:39:57,000
will lend themselves to you and
and as you get to know your

895
00:39:57,010 --> 00:39:58,120
class, you'll know what wants to
pick.

896
00:39:58,130 --> 00:40:00,660
But I think it's about having
them available for those

897
00:40:00,670 --> 00:40:03,340
children to read, sort of
signing, being able to signpost

898
00:40:03,350 --> 00:40:05,930
them to them as well.
But yeah, I mean.

899
00:40:07,110 --> 00:40:09,420
If children don't see themselves
in books again, they are they

900
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:11,140
going to be inclined to keep
reading them?

901
00:40:11,250 --> 00:40:13,270
Probably not, because they're
not going to feel like they're

902
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,180
part of the story and that's
what you want them to feel.

903
00:40:15,230 --> 00:40:16,880
So I I think that's really
powerful.

904
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:19,520
I completely agree.
And I think seeing themselves in

905
00:40:19,530 --> 00:40:22,710
books is such a vital part and I
want to come back to you with

906
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,480
someone, something someone said
to me once and I think it kind

907
00:40:25,490 --> 00:40:29,280
of frustrated me because there's
this whole furore and I suppose

908
00:40:29,290 --> 00:40:31,840
I'm going to the other end now.
I think inclusivity is really

909
00:40:31,850 --> 00:40:35,040
important and having that, you
know, children in your class,

910
00:40:35,050 --> 00:40:37,850
almost inevitably one or two of
them will have family members

911
00:40:37,860 --> 00:40:41,900
where this.
LGBTQ representation and

912
00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:43,510
different races in your class,
etc.

913
00:40:43,580 --> 00:40:45,510
Especially based on your
demographic where you are in the

914
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,780
country.
I think the thing I was really

915
00:40:47,790 --> 00:40:51,060
interested in was where we draw
the line on the other end of

916
00:40:51,070 --> 00:40:54,370
when as teachers, we should not
teach books and we should have

917
00:40:54,380 --> 00:40:57,580
them out of the classroom.
And the biggest thing recently,

918
00:40:57,590 --> 00:40:59,860
the two biggest things I can
think of are David Walliams

919
00:40:59,870 --> 00:41:02,810
books and Roald Dahl books.
Because as someone, and I'm

920
00:41:02,820 --> 00:41:04,600
going to say this Emily, you
might disown me and leave the

921
00:41:04,610 --> 00:41:08,840
chat now when I started, when I
started my career, I very much

922
00:41:08,850 --> 00:41:12,000
fell into the whole well, David
Williams is an incredibly

923
00:41:12,010 --> 00:41:14,540
popular author.
My children love him.

924
00:41:14,590 --> 00:41:16,960
I'm going to read it to them
because wow, what a brilliant

925
00:41:16,970 --> 00:41:18,370
way.
Everything you've been saying so

926
00:41:18,380 --> 00:41:20,980
far of getting them engaged and
and kind of mirroring what they

927
00:41:20,990 --> 00:41:24,870
like and I couldn't have had a
more swift turn in my opinion

928
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,530
just from having my eyes opened
online and people pointing out

929
00:41:27,540 --> 00:41:29,810
actually this is obviously not
correct.

930
00:41:29,860 --> 00:41:32,530
But there was there was, there
was always people who don't like

931
00:41:32,540 --> 00:41:35,600
change and there's someone said
once and it really worked me and

932
00:41:35,610 --> 00:41:39,290
the line was I'll pick the best
book for my children regardless

933
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:42,270
to what it's about And I just
think it was very narrow minded

934
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,690
to suggest that firstly they
have managed to pick the best

935
00:41:46,700 --> 00:41:48,950
book in the world.
Have you read every single book?

936
00:41:49,060 --> 00:41:51,200
Is that the best book?
I think there's gonna be a lot

937
00:41:51,210 --> 00:41:53,430
of books.
But secondly, just this idea to

938
00:41:53,500 --> 00:41:56,810
have no ability to kind of be
introspective and just think,

939
00:41:56,820 --> 00:41:59,750
oh, maybe I was wrong.
This will probably shock some

940
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,590
people because I do.
We all know my feelings about

941
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,130
David Williams.
I think I've made them very

942
00:42:04,140 --> 00:42:06,710
clear over the years.
Did once read one of his books

943
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,570
to my NQT class because when I
was an NQT I didn't.

944
00:42:10,630 --> 00:42:12,970
I've always been a prolific
reader, but I didn't really read

945
00:42:12,980 --> 00:42:16,030
children's books to be honest.
So I did pick it up because I

946
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,370
thought, well, he's very
popular, it's probably a very

947
00:42:18,380 --> 00:42:20,190
good book.
And yeah, the children did love

948
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:21,730
it.
But actually, as I've gone

949
00:42:21,740 --> 00:42:24,440
through my teaching career, I've
realised that his books don't

950
00:42:24,450 --> 00:42:26,460
have content in it that I would
particularly want to teach my

951
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:29,060
children.
But not only that, actually

952
00:42:29,070 --> 00:42:31,920
these children can access these
books pretty much anywhere.

953
00:42:31,930 --> 00:42:35,100
Most children will have them at
home anyway, and I think if they

954
00:42:35,110 --> 00:42:36,620
want to read them, I'd never
stop them.

955
00:42:36,630 --> 00:42:38,860
I don't stop them from bringing
them in, I don't stop them from

956
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:41,300
reading them.
But actually it's our duty to

957
00:42:41,310 --> 00:42:43,000
sort of show them what else is
out there.

958
00:42:43,010 --> 00:42:46,510
Not just in the sense of the
characters or the the themes in

959
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,200
the book, but just of what
they're not going to be able to

960
00:42:49,210 --> 00:42:51,160
see.
Home normally and say to them,

961
00:42:51,170 --> 00:42:53,700
well you might have those books
at home, but actually these are

962
00:42:53,710 --> 00:42:55,730
some other books I think you'll
love because of that.

963
00:42:55,740 --> 00:42:57,930
I mean, he churns out on you one
every 3 minutes.

964
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,620
So we need to show you the
other.

965
00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:02,450
We need to show them the other
books that are out there so that

966
00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:05,050
the next one pops up on the
supermarket shelf and actually

967
00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:06,520
they look to the right of it
next time.

968
00:43:06,530 --> 00:43:10,210
You know, I think, I think
that's that's what we should be

969
00:43:10,220 --> 00:43:11,880
doing.
I I'd never stop a child from

970
00:43:11,890 --> 00:43:15,920
reading a book they enjoy.
Although they brought in Jamie

971
00:43:15,930 --> 00:43:17,470
Oliver's book, I'll have a
question about that.

972
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,030
Wait, is that is that is that a
fiction book?

973
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:22,670
Or you mean a cookbook?
Ohh no.

974
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,850
He's written a fiction book.
Ohh has he OK?

975
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:26,870
Hmm.
So say when.

976
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,690
We when we say written, do we
mean he's put his name on a

977
00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:31,550
fiction book?
Like, yeah, I mean that's always

978
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,820
the question, isn't it?
With celebrity ones, did they

979
00:43:33,830 --> 00:43:36,840
actually write funny yourselves?
But yeah, I mean they put that

980
00:43:36,850 --> 00:43:38,180
one in.
I might question them slightly

981
00:43:38,190 --> 00:43:42,100
but if they, if they're, if
they're reading at home, great,

982
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,320
read all you like.
But I think has teachers, it's

983
00:43:44,330 --> 00:43:48,210
our duty to sort of show them
what else is out there.

984
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:50,200
You know, lots of people say,
oh, it gets them.

985
00:43:50,270 --> 00:43:51,770
Be doing.
That's what's important.

986
00:43:51,820 --> 00:43:54,440
But I always use the McDonald's
analogy that everyone says,

987
00:43:54,450 --> 00:43:56,510
yeah, you can have McDonald's
every now and again, but there's

988
00:43:56,580 --> 00:43:58,010
other food out there that you
need to eat.

989
00:43:58,020 --> 00:43:59,760
And I think that's the same with
books, you know?

990
00:43:59,770 --> 00:44:01,030
Wait, there's more.
There's more food than

991
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,800
McDonald's?
FC.

992
00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:08,560
Ohh yeah, KFC, of course.
Yeah, I I think that's a really

993
00:44:08,570 --> 00:44:11,860
convincing point.
And and for someone like me, who

994
00:44:11,950 --> 00:44:14,760
I'm very much the opposite of
you, like, I really don't feel

995
00:44:14,770 --> 00:44:16,660
confident when it comes to
reading.

996
00:44:16,670 --> 00:44:20,420
I've not read many children's
books outside of my career,

997
00:44:20,430 --> 00:44:23,780
outside of the books I would
read anyway, like for my job.

998
00:44:24,930 --> 00:44:27,420
And and I was one of those
people again, like David, I just

999
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:29,500
saw the David Williams.
I was like, ohh, cool kids love

1000
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:31,230
this.
So I made sure to get loads of

1001
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:33,470
David Walliams books for the for
the bookshelf, Do you know what

1002
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,390
I mean?
And and and I was a little bit

1003
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,230
like at first I was like, oh,
well, it does get kids reading,

1004
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:41,320
but you're so right.
Kids were already reading them.

1005
00:44:41,330 --> 00:44:44,710
Genuinely I every teacher could
could not mention David Williams

1006
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:46,800
for the next five years and
children would still read them.

1007
00:44:46,850 --> 00:44:52,040
We don't need to do that.
Our job as teachers is to expose

1008
00:44:52,050 --> 00:44:55,140
them to other literature and
there are books that are just as

1009
00:44:55,150 --> 00:44:57,400
good as David Williams.
So when people say to me now

1010
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,060
ohh, it gets them read them gets
them reading though isn't it?

1011
00:45:00,070 --> 00:45:01,660
I'm like yeah cool, so do other
books.

1012
00:45:01,730 --> 00:45:05,080
Other books are just as good.
I just but as a as a not so

1013
00:45:05,090 --> 00:45:07,230
confident teacher I just don't
happen to know those books.

1014
00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:11,140
So I totally rely on experts
like you.

1015
00:45:11,220 --> 00:45:15,220
When you know you're suggest
things from your blog or other

1016
00:45:15,230 --> 00:45:18,440
ways I've seen on on like the
big Facebook groups, you know

1017
00:45:18,450 --> 00:45:21,710
that we're all in recommended
reading lists before.

1018
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:23,570
And I'm like Oh my God, I love
I've download these.

1019
00:45:23,580 --> 00:45:24,930
I'll keep.
I'll treasure these things

1020
00:45:24,940 --> 00:45:28,600
because I know that that person
who's made that list, it is so

1021
00:45:28,610 --> 00:45:31,790
much more experienced than me.
And now I can just get some of

1022
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,070
these books and like you said,
read the blurb read the first

1023
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,330
chapter and think, cool, I know
these are good books.

1024
00:45:36,340 --> 00:45:38,430
Hopefully this will fit with my
class.

1025
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,820
So yeah, really appreciate what
you do and other people like

1026
00:45:41,830 --> 00:45:43,870
yourself.
Who read more?

1027
00:45:44,170 --> 00:45:45,390
Well, that's that's why we do
it.

1028
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,390
I don't expect everybody to to
read all the time or want to

1029
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,100
read all the time, the same as
like other subjects like DT.

1030
00:45:52,340 --> 00:45:55,170
I need to come and find an
expert because I don't know how

1031
00:45:55,180 --> 00:45:58,580
to make a bridge out of plywood.
That was my next question.

1032
00:46:00,350 --> 00:46:04,240
Yeah, but you know, we've all
got our own expertise and like

1033
00:46:04,290 --> 00:46:06,530
you said, you really like maths.
I like teaching maths.

1034
00:46:06,540 --> 00:46:08,540
But am I an expert in it?
Absolutely not.

1035
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:09,980
And I would look to experts for
that.

1036
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:12,500
Why is reading any different?
Why would we expect somebody to

1037
00:46:12,510 --> 00:46:14,700
know all of the books all of the
time?

1038
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:17,480
I think as long as you reach out
for that advice and you reach

1039
00:46:17,490 --> 00:46:21,160
for an expert in the topics that
you're not so, so confident in,

1040
00:46:21,590 --> 00:46:24,350
I don't see a problem.
And that's, you know, that's why

1041
00:46:24,510 --> 00:46:26,760
I did make my blog initially,
because it's supposed to be a

1042
00:46:26,770 --> 00:46:30,360
little bite size pick of a book
for somebody to get a feeling of

1043
00:46:30,370 --> 00:46:32,210
it.
You know, I made an offer of the

1044
00:46:32,220 --> 00:46:34,600
week resource with Cassie, and
we made that so that people

1045
00:46:34,610 --> 00:46:37,610
could just see all the authors
out there, show the children,

1046
00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:39,650
all the authors that are out
there, but without even really

1047
00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:41,770
having to do any of the work
behind it because we've done it

1048
00:46:41,780 --> 00:46:45,210
all for them, so.
As a teacher, when I hear the

1049
00:46:45,220 --> 00:46:46,480
words, we've done all the work
for you.

1050
00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:50,640
I'm like, ohh fine.
I want to just finish this chat

1051
00:46:50,650 --> 00:46:52,580
off because I'm going to push
you both to come down on one

1052
00:46:52,590 --> 00:46:55,500
side because everything we said
so far I completely agree with.

1053
00:46:55,570 --> 00:46:57,160
But I'm going to ask you both a
question now.

1054
00:46:57,170 --> 00:46:58,940
So Hayden, you're in the
interview chair as well.

1055
00:46:59,710 --> 00:47:03,020
If I was to ask you for the main
reason, OK.

1056
00:47:03,090 --> 00:47:07,120
If I was to ask you for the main
reason why you wouldn't put push

1057
00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:09,520
a David Walliams book in front
of your children as a class read

1058
00:47:09,530 --> 00:47:12,900
or a class book, would it be
more because they already read

1059
00:47:12,910 --> 00:47:16,190
them and you want to open their
mind or would it be more because

1060
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,360
you think it's inappropriate,
the actual content in there?

1061
00:47:18,370 --> 00:47:20,080
Because I think are two very
different reasons.

1062
00:47:20,210 --> 00:47:23,720
And that if your class were
constantly reading books of any

1063
00:47:23,770 --> 00:47:25,820
ilk, whether they were
appropriate or not, I think we'd

1064
00:47:25,830 --> 00:47:28,740
still have option one.
But do you feel more strongly

1065
00:47:28,750 --> 00:47:30,810
about David Walliams because of
the content itself?

1066
00:47:30,820 --> 00:47:32,630
And you think we shouldn't be
pushing that in front of the

1067
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,360
children?
Yeah, I feel it's the content.

1068
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,950
I think any if any of the
authors put the content in there

1069
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,570
that he does, it wouldn't be
acceptable.

1070
00:47:39,690 --> 00:47:42,160
And you know, roll dial people
say Oh well did it.

1071
00:47:42,170 --> 00:47:46,560
Yeah, he lived decades ago when
actually society accepted things

1072
00:47:46,570 --> 00:47:47,600
like that.
Should they have?

1073
00:47:47,650 --> 00:47:50,340
No, but they did.
And actually David Walliams has

1074
00:47:50,350 --> 00:47:53,110
no excuse for it.
There in 2023, why you still

1075
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,620
writing tropes and stereotypes
that should no longer exist.

1076
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:59,490
And I do say that to my classes.
You know, once you've built that

1077
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:03,550
relationship and that report and
we discuss books and talk about

1078
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,300
all the other things that we
read, why can't we talk about

1079
00:48:06,310 --> 00:48:07,480
that?
And actually some of them have

1080
00:48:07,490 --> 00:48:09,730
gone away, reflected on the.
But they've gone actually.

1081
00:48:09,740 --> 00:48:10,760
Yeah.
Now you said it.

1082
00:48:10,850 --> 00:48:12,780
I don't really like the way that
characters portrayed.

1083
00:48:12,790 --> 00:48:15,900
And I do think it's an important
conversation to have with the

1084
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:18,560
right class and the children
that are, you know, mature and

1085
00:48:18,570 --> 00:48:19,780
old enough to have that
conversation.

1086
00:48:21,290 --> 00:48:22,760
I think it's definitely a
balance for me.

1087
00:48:22,770 --> 00:48:26,860
I think both points are really
valid and I don't know, but I I

1088
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:28,260
think I agree with exactly what
you said.

1089
00:48:28,270 --> 00:48:30,890
I do think there's a slippery
slope somewhere, and I don't

1090
00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:32,740
think it's within this
conversation really, but I know

1091
00:48:32,750 --> 00:48:37,380
that in general.
Where is the line in general for

1092
00:48:37,390 --> 00:48:40,800
when teachers can have the say
on like a cultural thing?

1093
00:48:40,810 --> 00:48:43,600
I don't, I don't know.
Like when can I say no, you

1094
00:48:43,610 --> 00:48:47,660
can't, you can't study this now.
When does it become my personal

1095
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:49,980
belief that's maybe a bit
overbearing and and and actually

1096
00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:52,260
just a general consensus because
I think the David Williams thing

1097
00:48:52,270 --> 00:48:54,080
is pretty much a general
consensus.

1098
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:57,320
It's quite clearly and obviously
in our British culture and we we

1099
00:48:57,330 --> 00:48:58,920
have to do British values at
school.

1100
00:48:58,990 --> 00:49:01,660
It's quite clearly not British
values to have the stereotypes

1101
00:49:01,730 --> 00:49:04,960
and promote them in the way that
they're portrayed in David

1102
00:49:04,970 --> 00:49:06,720
Walliams books.
But I do think there are other

1103
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:09,880
topics that we won't get into
now that maybe one teacher might

1104
00:49:09,890 --> 00:49:12,250
say, yeah, no, I don't teach my
kids this because that's just

1105
00:49:12,260 --> 00:49:15,100
wrong and someone else might
come along, go hang on a minute,

1106
00:49:15,110 --> 00:49:18,230
like that's very much.
All kind of bias in your view.

1107
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,150
Hmm.
Where?

1108
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,470
Does next time, Next time
Emily's on, you know, we're

1109
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,730
gonna talk about everything
already lining up for the next

1110
00:49:23,740 --> 00:49:26,220
time.
I would say just in reply to

1111
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:29,390
that though, my only thing would
be my book coordinate is all my

1112
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,660
own books.
So everything in there is funded

1113
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:36,070
by myself and in there myself.
So for somebody who's, you know,

1114
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,130
been given the books that go in
their book and it might be

1115
00:49:38,140 --> 00:49:39,890
slightly different, but I just
don't.

1116
00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:42,250
Books in there that I don't
think are great or don't think

1117
00:49:42,260 --> 00:49:44,830
have good themes in them, I
would never stop a child reading

1118
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,750
them, but am I going to provide
that book?

1119
00:49:47,100 --> 00:49:49,120
Hmm, that's that.
I think that's me is where the

1120
00:49:49,130 --> 00:49:50,580
line is drawn.
I would never stop them from

1121
00:49:50,590 --> 00:49:53,680
reading it, but I might not open
it up on my bookshelf.

1122
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:57,080
I think that is a that's really
good line to draw and I think

1123
00:49:57,090 --> 00:49:59,180
that's a nice place to finish
off there because you're right,

1124
00:49:59,190 --> 00:50:01,070
we're not banning books.
And this is I think what the

1125
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,520
media will pick up on.
I can imagine in a few weeks GB

1126
00:50:03,530 --> 00:50:05,160
News, but now the teacher banned
books.

1127
00:50:05,170 --> 00:50:07,630
Like, no, I've just not bought
it and put it in the corner.

1128
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,380
I've not banned it.
Yeah.

1129
00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:11,920
So yeah, Fascinating.
I would like to move on.

1130
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:15,040
Sticking with reading here
because again it's something I

1131
00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:18,580
know you're an advocate of whole
class reading and it's this idea

1132
00:50:18,590 --> 00:50:22,400
of from.
From my point of view I'm kind

1133
00:50:22,410 --> 00:50:25,280
of looking from the outside in.
It seems like this unbelievable

1134
00:50:25,290 --> 00:50:27,780
method, this unbelievable way of
bringing a whole class of

1135
00:50:27,790 --> 00:50:31,140
children with you and reading
quality texts on the way.

1136
00:50:31,290 --> 00:50:35,200
And I love the idea, but my
initial thoughts always come to

1137
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:37,700
the practicality.
So first of all just just for

1138
00:50:37,710 --> 00:50:39,710
our listeners listening because
they might think what you

1139
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:41,740
talking about, we have a lot of
non teachers listen as well.

1140
00:50:42,130 --> 00:50:44,750
What do we mean when we say?
Whole class reading and reading

1141
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,980
lessons.
See, It's the whole the the

1142
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:51,730
whole class we.
You're all looking at the same

1143
00:50:51,740 --> 00:50:52,580
tax.
There's not.

1144
00:50:52,590 --> 00:50:55,140
There's not separate groups of
children that are sent to

1145
00:50:55,150 --> 00:50:57,720
different tasks or some adult
LED, some aren't.

1146
00:50:57,810 --> 00:50:59,930
It's the whole class being
involved in.

1147
00:51:00,580 --> 00:51:03,250
You know, picking apart and
extract or or a piece of the

1148
00:51:03,260 --> 00:51:06,750
story and reading it together
and just being exposed to the

1149
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:10,290
language, the themes, the
discussion that comes from that.

1150
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,080
So that absolutely, and I think
what we can jump in straight

1151
00:51:14,090 --> 00:51:15,190
there.
Now everyone knows the context

1152
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,630
because I think a lot of adults,
especially like even myself

1153
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,490
have.
If I didn't become a teacher, I

1154
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:22,450
would think back to school and I
would remember the rectangle

1155
00:51:22,460 --> 00:51:25,350
table and the circle table and
the triangle table and the

1156
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,350
oblong table and I'd be
thinking, oh, OK and as a child,

1157
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,330
very adept, you knew what these
tables.

1158
00:51:31,530 --> 00:51:33,720
You knew that these children got
more support from adults.

1159
00:51:33,770 --> 00:51:36,160
You know, these children were
often pushed to to, you know,

1160
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:38,540
onto something you've seen as as
more difficult.

1161
00:51:38,650 --> 00:51:41,220
And I think a lot of people have
the idea in their head of that

1162
00:51:41,230 --> 00:51:44,180
kind of grouping and even
teachers still, we still group,

1163
00:51:44,190 --> 00:51:48,020
we still put support in place.
I suppose my question is as

1164
00:51:48,590 --> 00:51:51,860
someone who makes sure children
always have reading books that

1165
00:51:51,870 --> 00:51:54,010
they take home that's
appropriate for their level and

1166
00:51:54,020 --> 00:51:57,040
their levels can be very
different within the same class,

1167
00:51:57,330 --> 00:52:01,200
how would you go about
practically ensuring that the

1168
00:52:01,270 --> 00:52:03,250
children.
Less able to access the text

1169
00:52:03,260 --> 00:52:05,830
still can, and potentially the
ones at the top are more

1170
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,570
stretched.
And where would you place the

1171
00:52:07,580 --> 00:52:09,540
book in difficulty?
Would it be more appropriate for

1172
00:52:09,550 --> 00:52:11,770
the tops and you help the
bottoms or would it be middle of

1173
00:52:11,780 --> 00:52:14,770
the road and you kind of stretch
and support in a different way?

1174
00:52:14,820 --> 00:52:18,000
How would you make sure that
that kind of ability dynamic

1175
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,490
isn't kind of ruined by the fact
that you all reading one book?

1176
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,470
I mean, controversially to start
with, I don't give banded books

1177
00:52:25,540 --> 00:52:27,030
once I'm in year 5-6.
Hmm.

1178
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:30,090
I think that actually you're
gonna turn kids off reading.

1179
00:52:30,100 --> 00:52:31,970
That was so that.
So I don't have that problem

1180
00:52:31,980 --> 00:52:35,430
because I don't ban them in the
1st place, but I would always

1181
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:36,670
pick a book that's going to
stretch.

1182
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,670
So my first thing that I would
want to do when I pick a whole

1183
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,050
class reading book is pick one
that's going to stretch with

1184
00:52:42,060 --> 00:52:44,750
vocabulary.
Not always themes because you

1185
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,500
don't need to stretch them both,
but it's going to have

1186
00:52:46,510 --> 00:52:49,670
vocabulary in there that's going
to, you know, help them.

1187
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,870
I think you know when you're in
year 6 vocabulary in the Sats

1188
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,320
test.
Is often the one that they find

1189
00:52:54,330 --> 00:52:56,650
the most tricky.
So the more I can expose them to

1190
00:52:56,660 --> 00:53:00,250
just for osmosis is, you know,
the better.

1191
00:53:00,300 --> 00:53:03,610
But I think after that it's
about something that they're all

1192
00:53:03,620 --> 00:53:06,170
going to want to access.
You're never going to hit every

1193
00:53:06,180 --> 00:53:08,770
kid, not every child is ever
going to like every book you

1194
00:53:08,780 --> 00:53:10,810
pick.
But ultimately, I want to pick a

1195
00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:15,220
book that most children are
going to enjoy and want to delve

1196
00:53:15,230 --> 00:53:18,550
in more into and want to have
that discussion because actually

1197
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:20,910
a lot of their learning isn't
from the reading itself.

1198
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,840
I don't think it's the
discussions that are promoted

1199
00:53:22,850 --> 00:53:24,620
from that book.
And that's what helps them.

1200
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:27,420
So they'll all read along, They
can use their rulers, they can,

1201
00:53:27,430 --> 00:53:29,800
you know, use overlays, whatever
they need to do to read that

1202
00:53:29,810 --> 00:53:32,980
text.
But it's it's all of that

1203
00:53:32,990 --> 00:53:35,360
valuable discussion afterwards I
think has the most impact.

1204
00:53:35,370 --> 00:53:39,220
So I'd always pick something
that stretches vocabulary wise,

1205
00:53:39,230 --> 00:53:41,820
but actually focus on themes
that they're going to enjoy or

1206
00:53:41,830 --> 00:53:44,390
want to pull apart.
There's no in your class, isn't

1207
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,530
it?
Traditionally that slot, which

1208
00:53:47,540 --> 00:53:50,800
whole class reading kind of like
takes up in the day, would be

1209
00:53:50,810 --> 00:53:53,900
filled with guided reading,
which is a phrase we use a lot

1210
00:53:53,910 --> 00:53:56,760
in teaching.
And listeners that maybe don't

1211
00:53:56,770 --> 00:53:59,560
work in teaching might remember
themselves the guided reading

1212
00:53:59,570 --> 00:54:01,000
slot from when they were at
school.

1213
00:54:01,250 --> 00:54:04,090
I personally, and I don't know
if this is controversial or not,

1214
00:54:04,100 --> 00:54:06,540
I genuinely don't.
I really hate guided reading.

1215
00:54:06,620 --> 00:54:09,310
I really, really hate guided
reading as a teacher for so many

1216
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,600
reasons.
One, it's just so annoying to

1217
00:54:11,610 --> 00:54:13,980
manage.
I find that I just can't do it

1218
00:54:14,110 --> 00:54:16,170
when you have four different
groups and they're all doing

1219
00:54:16,180 --> 00:54:18,510
something different.
I can't manage it.

1220
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,850
You basically always work with
the same children.

1221
00:54:21,230 --> 00:54:23,790
And even when you say, Oh no,
we're going to rotate, it's

1222
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,640
like, well, you're not though,
because as soon as you leave

1223
00:54:25,650 --> 00:54:27,580
that group of children that you
decided to work with last time,

1224
00:54:27,590 --> 00:54:29,130
they're not going to do the
thing.

1225
00:54:29,240 --> 00:54:33,150
And I just really don't like it.
And would you say that whole

1226
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,270
class reading is kind of
supposed to take over the guided

1227
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,010
reading, the traditional guided
reading, or do you still still

1228
00:54:39,020 --> 00:54:41,390
see a place for them being used
in tandem?

1229
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:43,930
No, I think it takes over.
And I think I'm lucky.

1230
00:54:43,940 --> 00:54:47,270
I mean, I've, I've done a whole
class reading my whole teaching

1231
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,320
career.
I've worked in I think my first

1232
00:54:49,330 --> 00:54:52,340
school had guided reading for a
couple of terms and then we

1233
00:54:52,350 --> 00:54:55,010
switched the whole class and I
hated it.

1234
00:54:55,020 --> 00:54:57,840
But I mean, I can still remember
when I was at primary school I

1235
00:54:57,850 --> 00:55:00,570
was in the top guided reading
group because you do know where.

1236
00:55:00,580 --> 00:55:04,580
You go on, you know.
So hate, hate over you, mate.

1237
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:08,660
Ohh, not me.
We were put in a in a group and

1238
00:55:08,670 --> 00:55:11,040
because we'd already finished
our work and our book that we

1239
00:55:11,050 --> 00:55:14,960
were supposed to do, we were set
this task to read a like a

1240
00:55:14,970 --> 00:55:18,400
playbook, a book written like a
play and record it on a tape

1241
00:55:18,410 --> 00:55:20,100
player.
And I genuinely think it must

1242
00:55:20,110 --> 00:55:23,400
have been six weeks of a sat in
this little backroom recording a

1243
00:55:23,410 --> 00:55:26,180
play on a tape player.
And I thought, what did I ever

1244
00:55:26,190 --> 00:55:27,480
gain from that?
I didn't.

1245
00:55:27,590 --> 00:55:29,940
I didn't learn anything.
We basically did it in a week

1246
00:55:29,950 --> 00:55:32,320
and then just sat in there doing
absolutely nothing.

1247
00:55:32,380 --> 00:55:35,920
I think, I think I was year five
when that happened or you were

1248
00:55:35,930 --> 00:55:39,270
given a book that you expected.
Just sit down, They'd say write,

1249
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,570
read up to page 59.
And for somebody like me who was

1250
00:55:43,580 --> 00:55:45,980
quite a fast reader, I've
always, I've always been fairly

1251
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:47,960
fast.
I would, I would have done it in

1252
00:55:47,970 --> 00:55:50,350
a minute and then I'm just
expected to sit there the rest

1253
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,070
of the the activities.
I think having that negative

1254
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,330
experience as a child probably
made me already come into

1255
00:55:56,340 --> 00:55:59,690
teaching with a little bit of a
a negative view of it maybe and

1256
00:55:59,700 --> 00:56:01,640
I.
That's what I love about whole

1257
00:56:01,650 --> 00:56:04,220
class reading, though, is that
no one sort of sat on their own,

1258
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:07,300
or they don't just finish a task
or all doing it together.

1259
00:56:07,310 --> 00:56:10,220
And I think it's that
inclusivity of every child.

1260
00:56:10,310 --> 00:56:12,990
And funny enough, I'm being
observed in whole class reading

1261
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,420
tomorrow for this exact reason.
It's just about how to put those

1262
00:56:16,430 --> 00:56:18,340
children.
Well, you.

1263
00:56:19,170 --> 00:56:21,860
Well, the merrier.
What you don't know, Emily, is

1264
00:56:21,870 --> 00:56:23,060
we've been contacted by your
school.

1265
00:56:23,070 --> 00:56:24,490
This is the first step in the
process.

1266
00:56:26,340 --> 00:56:29,010
Well, there you go.
I mean, yeah, the more the

1267
00:56:29,020 --> 00:56:30,410
merrier.
Everyone can come and help us,

1268
00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:33,110
but I think it's about having
those children to have that.

1269
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,350
Not putting that glass ceiling
on them, not saying, ohh, you're

1270
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,060
only capable of reading this
book about frogs, so.

1271
00:56:39,390 --> 00:56:44,140
Going in.
I'm sorry, but you've managed to

1272
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:46,410
do it in in one sentence.
Encapsulate what?

1273
00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:48,930
Those I know what books you're
talking about just from that one

1274
00:56:48,940 --> 00:56:52,130
sentence.
You know the you know the book

1275
00:56:52,140 --> 00:56:54,570
that that little poor little
group gets stuck with every

1276
00:56:54,580 --> 00:56:58,260
time.
OK, we're gonna give them good

1277
00:56:58,610 --> 00:57:01,780
high quality books that they can
enjoy and not just learn a fact

1278
00:57:01,790 --> 00:57:06,180
about some made.
Yeah, that's true.

1279
00:57:06,190 --> 00:57:08,230
Yeah, you're perfectly, you've
perfectly encapsulated.

1280
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:10,220
The guy did really, really.
And I'm really interested

1281
00:57:10,230 --> 00:57:12,810
because I feel like with whole
class reading a couple of years

1282
00:57:12,820 --> 00:57:17,500
ago, I definitely tried to do it
and my memory is failing me

1283
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:19,660
terribly because I can't
remember if I was successful in

1284
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:21,100
doing it or not.
It was when I worked at a

1285
00:57:21,110 --> 00:57:23,020
different school.
So it's maybe four years ago

1286
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:26,860
now, but as again as someone
who's not as confident maybe in

1287
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:29,440
teaching.
English do you have any kind of

1288
00:57:29,450 --> 00:57:32,140
advice to just get over that
first hurdle?

1289
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:33,260
Like what?
What should I do?

1290
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:36,420
Like let's say I've got a class
and and the range of abilities

1291
00:57:36,510 --> 00:57:38,580
fairly wide.
Let's say just like a couple of

1292
00:57:38,590 --> 00:57:40,240
year groups.
If we're going on kind of

1293
00:57:40,250 --> 00:57:43,640
English assessments, how do I
jump into whole class reading

1294
00:57:43,650 --> 00:57:45,880
once I've picked maybe I've
picked a text already.

1295
00:57:45,890 --> 00:57:47,400
What do I actually do in that
time?

1296
00:57:48,430 --> 00:57:52,280
So I always start with, if they
don't have their own copy of a

1297
00:57:52,290 --> 00:57:55,720
book, obviously having an
extract is really useful.

1298
00:57:55,810 --> 00:57:58,330
But I always get them to pick
out the vocabulary that they

1299
00:57:58,340 --> 00:58:01,290
don't know first, because how
can I expect a child to answer a

1300
00:58:01,300 --> 00:58:03,500
question?
Obviously I'm not training them

1301
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:05,860
for Sats when I do this because
who wants to teach the test?

1302
00:58:05,870 --> 00:58:08,050
But I don't.
I don't want to ask the question

1303
00:58:08,060 --> 00:58:09,860
where I'm setting them up to
fail because they don't know

1304
00:58:09,870 --> 00:58:12,340
what one of the words.
So the first thing I always do

1305
00:58:12,350 --> 00:58:14,840
is get them to, you know, pick
out the words that they don't

1306
00:58:14,850 --> 00:58:16,800
know.
And actually the more you do

1307
00:58:16,810 --> 00:58:18,840
that, the more confident
children will be to say.

1308
00:58:18,910 --> 00:58:20,430
Actually, I don't know what this
word means.

1309
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:22,370
I model that.
I'll say ohh, this word's come

1310
00:58:22,380 --> 00:58:23,890
up.
I've ohh, I can't.

1311
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:27,430
We had one the other day and I
knew I could use it, a palpable

1312
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:29,350
and I said I I could use this
word.

1313
00:58:29,420 --> 00:58:31,590
I have no idea how I define that
to you guys.

1314
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,250
So we looked up together and we
had that discussion and actually

1315
00:58:35,260 --> 00:58:37,990
it's it's saying to them it's OK
not to read and understand a

1316
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,650
word.
We're all in that position.

1317
00:58:39,660 --> 00:58:42,690
So that's where I would always
start with any any session.

1318
00:58:42,900 --> 00:58:44,410
Emily, can I come in really
quickly?

1319
00:58:44,790 --> 00:58:46,550
Have you heard of the word
underfed?

1320
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,970
Underfed.
Those trolling right now, he's

1321
00:58:50,980 --> 00:58:52,940
trolling me hard.
I'm sorry.

1322
00:58:52,950 --> 00:58:55,450
Our listeners will know from a
very, very, very early on in

1323
00:58:55,460 --> 00:58:58,730
this podcast, Hayden was reading
a book to his class and he came

1324
00:58:58,740 --> 00:59:01,680
across a word that he read his
underfed and he was underfed

1325
00:59:01,690 --> 00:59:03,580
children and he was, I spell it,
he didn't know.

1326
00:59:03,650 --> 00:59:06,080
Yeah, I'll spell it to you.
OK, this is the word and and I

1327
00:59:06,090 --> 00:59:09,070
did a whole 5 minute activity
about trying to work out the

1328
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,060
meaning of it by reading around
in context.

1329
00:59:11,070 --> 00:59:16,230
OK, I thought I was being really
clever, UNDERFED.

1330
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:23,830
UNDERFED.
So how did you Thunder?

1331
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,000
And underfed.
Underfed.

1332
00:59:26,670 --> 00:59:29,300
I thought the word said
underfed, and I thought it was

1333
00:59:29,310 --> 00:59:32,300
an adjective describing children
in I can't what the book was.

1334
00:59:32,310 --> 00:59:33,300
Now I've forgotten.
It was.

1335
00:59:33,310 --> 00:59:37,340
It was Borderlands.
No, no, no.

1336
00:59:37,350 --> 00:59:38,680
Floodlands.
Floodlands.

1337
00:59:38,690 --> 00:59:40,710
What?
It was floodlands and I think it

1338
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,190
was that, Yeah, yeah, it was an
underfed.

1339
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,650
And I did this whole activity
and we Googled it and everything

1340
00:59:45,660 --> 00:59:46,890
together.
I was like, let's find out the

1341
00:59:46,900 --> 00:59:48,290
definition.
And it described.

1342
00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:50,470
I still didn't twig it
described.

1343
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,640
Not not had much food.
Skinny.

1344
00:59:53,650 --> 00:59:57,130
I was like, oh wow, OK, that
does work in context, isn't it?

1345
00:59:57,140 --> 01:00:00,740
This boy just went Mrs Stevens.
I think that says underfed.

1346
01:00:01,450 --> 01:00:03,080
And then it's just so
embarrassing.

1347
01:00:03,090 --> 01:00:04,300
So embarrassing.
We now have.

1348
01:00:04,310 --> 01:00:07,170
Two shirts to bring up.
No I wouldn't worry.

1349
01:00:07,180 --> 01:00:10,440
I did an English language degree
and I remember being sat in my

1350
01:00:10,450 --> 01:00:13,680
university seminar and I went
ohh what is a hyperbole?

1351
01:00:13,690 --> 01:00:18,200
And my friend was like.
Emily and I was like ohh and

1352
01:00:18,210 --> 01:00:22,420
that was in my English language
free, so I think that is a fine

1353
01:00:22,430 --> 01:00:24,570
respect.
No, that's fine.

1354
01:00:24,580 --> 01:00:26,670
That's brilliant.
I thought by the way on this, on

1355
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:30,420
this rolling theme here of not
knowing what words say until I

1356
01:00:30,430 --> 01:00:33,600
was literally like a teacher.
So like mid 20s, right?

1357
01:00:33,850 --> 01:00:38,580
I thought, I thought all of
those emails that it said no

1358
01:00:38,590 --> 01:00:41,230
apply and I was like this nor
apply is really popular.

1359
01:00:41,810 --> 01:00:45,840
This have got themselves into a
lot of businesses.

1360
01:00:45,910 --> 01:00:48,490
I'm getting emails saying no
reply from everyone, no reply,

1361
01:00:48,550 --> 01:00:50,130
just telling me not to reply to
that e-mail.

1362
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:54,080
That's so good.
You never told me this.

1363
01:00:54,310 --> 01:00:55,810
That would have been ammo for
me.

1364
01:00:56,630 --> 01:00:58,050
Ohh.
Ohh, right.

1365
01:00:58,060 --> 01:00:59,690
I thought you said you couldn't
read ammo.

1366
01:00:59,780 --> 01:01:00,630
That's a very.
Easy.

1367
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,150
No ammo for me to get back at
you for taking the Mick.

1368
01:01:03,710 --> 01:01:05,890
There.
You go, yeah, exactly.

1369
01:01:05,900 --> 01:01:08,090
Sorry Emily, I derailed your
flow there.

1370
01:01:08,290 --> 01:01:10,550
But I'll just come back in then
just to finish off this whole

1371
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,620
school because the whole class
reading, because it is.

1372
01:01:12,660 --> 01:01:15,180
I think what he's saying is
people are apprehensive about

1373
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:18,650
that ability range.
But I will say one other thing,

1374
01:01:18,660 --> 01:01:21,410
having done something similar in
the past, even when it's not

1375
01:01:21,420 --> 01:01:24,850
necessarily this kind of theme
but you have a book with your

1376
01:01:24,860 --> 01:01:26,820
children, right?
And and you read bits of them as

1377
01:01:26,830 --> 01:01:27,950
you go.
But maybe.

1378
01:01:28,030 --> 01:01:30,930
Also, not just the class read in
the afternoon, but it does link

1379
01:01:30,940 --> 01:01:33,020
during this planning.
Maybe it's like less involved,

1380
01:01:33,030 --> 01:01:37,030
but I would say most classes in
the country will be working from

1381
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,850
a text when it comes to their
English lessons, however they do

1382
01:01:39,860 --> 01:01:42,210
it.
And how?

1383
01:01:42,220 --> 01:01:44,250
Do you have any tips here?
And maybe when you're doing

1384
01:01:44,260 --> 01:01:47,080
whole class reading, maybe for a
time and you have a book, how on

1385
01:01:47,090 --> 01:01:50,690
earth do you get through it?
Because I have always always

1386
01:01:50,700 --> 01:01:54,370
struggled with finishing a whole
class text because of the sheer

1387
01:01:54,380 --> 01:01:56,550
amount of time we have to spend
stood reading.

1388
01:01:56,700 --> 01:02:00,350
And also then spend time on
objectives and then spend time

1389
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,590
on practising word meaning or
inference or retrieval in what

1390
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,290
can be quite a small time slot
in the school calendar.

1391
01:02:06,300 --> 01:02:08,810
Is it just down to timetabling
or is there a special way to do

1392
01:02:08,820 --> 01:02:11,400
this?
I think it is timetabling

1393
01:02:11,410 --> 01:02:14,320
because every other school I've
worked in where I've done it,

1394
01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:16,900
we've always finished the book
with good time in the term.

1395
01:02:16,970 --> 01:02:20,300
But this school I'm at now, our
school day is so much shorter

1396
01:02:20,310 --> 01:02:21,780
than any other school I've been
at.

1397
01:02:21,850 --> 01:02:24,600
And we've really struggled
because I usually don't have a

1398
01:02:24,610 --> 01:02:28,000
separate class read.
I'll read my whole class reading

1399
01:02:28,010 --> 01:02:30,260
book and we will just read that
together because essentially

1400
01:02:30,270 --> 01:02:33,420
I've picked a text that they
should enjoy, not just work

1401
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:35,290
from.
And then it's also showing them

1402
01:02:35,300 --> 01:02:38,180
that although we are doing some
work from this book, actually

1403
01:02:38,190 --> 01:02:40,280
we're still reading it for
pleasure and we can still enjoy

1404
01:02:40,290 --> 01:02:41,930
it.
Sort of trying to show them that

1405
01:02:41,940 --> 01:02:44,080
that reading for pleasure is
always there.

1406
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:47,100
So that's that's how I normally
manage it because we do the

1407
01:02:47,110 --> 01:02:49,600
reading session and I'll always
aim for one chapter, which

1408
01:02:49,610 --> 01:02:52,380
actually super time.
You've got roughly 30 chapters

1409
01:02:52,390 --> 01:02:54,140
you can get through if you do
one a day.

1410
01:02:55,420 --> 01:02:57,950
So if we read a little bit in
the afternoons on top of that.

1411
01:02:58,660 --> 01:03:01,170
We normally normally get the
book done, but that is

1412
01:03:01,180 --> 01:03:03,690
completely down to the timetable
that you're given because I just

1413
01:03:03,700 --> 01:03:07,030
find my day way too short to do
that at the minute, especially

1414
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,150
if I want to give them a chance
to independently read their own

1415
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,590
books as well.
Sometimes I favour that over

1416
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,790
doing a whole class read because
they're so into their books,

1417
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:15,390
they just want that 10 minutes
but.

1418
01:03:15,780 --> 01:03:18,210
I've always found this exactly
what you said.

1419
01:03:18,220 --> 01:03:20,710
There's always got to be
something that has taken as a

1420
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,510
result, and usually it's at the
detriment of, like you said,

1421
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:25,980
their own read, which they can
be very passionate about.

1422
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:29,010
And as a teacher we can do our
best, can't we, to pick a book.

1423
01:03:29,390 --> 01:03:32,170
Is it likely that all 32
children in my class will be

1424
01:03:32,180 --> 01:03:34,980
obsessed with this book and like
it more than their own personal

1425
01:03:34,990 --> 01:03:36,320
book?
Probably not.

1426
01:03:36,330 --> 01:03:38,520
And maybe I could hit a lot of
them with good research and

1427
01:03:38,530 --> 01:03:41,560
using your lists and things.
But yeah, no, fascinating.

1428
01:03:41,570 --> 01:03:44,340
It's really, really interesting
because it's something I think

1429
01:03:44,350 --> 01:03:48,110
is brilliant and we don't do it
in this way in our school.

1430
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,180
We do it separate ways.
I know those different ways to

1431
01:03:50,190 --> 01:03:53,040
do stuff, but I think from what
you said there, it sounds like

1432
01:03:53,050 --> 01:03:54,100
it's the way forward, to be
honest.

1433
01:03:54,810 --> 01:03:56,620
That's just yeah, I really love
it, I think.

1434
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,370
It if you finish the book as
well in good time, then you're

1435
01:04:00,380 --> 01:04:02,550
almost giving them that time at
the end of the term to read what

1436
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,310
they want as well.
You know, you do get the best of

1437
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,990
both worlds.
But sometimes I always put

1438
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,830
reading in the afternoon onto my
schedule, but whether that's

1439
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,270
independent reading or class
book reading or completely

1440
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,060
depend how the day is going to
be honest and how much they're

1441
01:04:16,070 --> 01:04:19,200
all loving their books.
Those children in my class are

1442
01:04:19,210 --> 01:04:21,490
loving a book they're reading at
the minute, so I sometimes think

1443
01:04:21,500 --> 01:04:24,200
a little bit like we've gone out
in the sun last week to read for

1444
01:04:24,210 --> 01:04:27,050
15 minutes because actually
that's a really nice way for

1445
01:04:27,060 --> 01:04:29,270
them to finish their day.
But.

1446
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,210
Yeah, it's going to encourage
them to do so, isn't it?

1447
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:35,790
So to kind of wrap up this part
of our conversation.

1448
01:04:36,730 --> 01:04:40,460
Within this episode for people
like me and the listeners are

1449
01:04:40,470 --> 01:04:42,500
thinking, ohh, I wanna go and I
want to learn more about this.

1450
01:04:42,510 --> 01:04:44,550
Obviously we're not gonna talk
the whole episode about whole

1451
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,280
class reading like every single
step to it.

1452
01:04:46,350 --> 01:04:49,640
Is there anywhere we can kind of
go to learn a bit more about

1453
01:04:49,650 --> 01:04:51,640
this?
Or do you recommend any

1454
01:04:51,650 --> 01:04:53,820
particular websites or have you
got your own resources that we

1455
01:04:53,830 --> 01:04:57,040
could point us towards to learn
a bit more about whole class

1456
01:04:57,050 --> 01:05:00,780
reading?
I think if you want to start

1457
01:05:00,790 --> 01:05:03,880
doing a whole class, reading
Literacy Shed has some amazing

1458
01:05:03,890 --> 01:05:05,050
schemes that you can use on
there.

1459
01:05:05,060 --> 01:05:07,460
They are based on Vipers, so it
depends whether you want to use.

1460
01:05:07,540 --> 01:05:10,700
Right there.
Vocabulary, inference questions.

1461
01:05:10,890 --> 01:05:12,950
But they are a really useful
starting point because they've

1462
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,320
broken down chapter by chapter.
They have inference questions,

1463
01:05:16,530 --> 01:05:19,100
summary, a prediction,
everything you could want from

1464
01:05:19,110 --> 01:05:22,650
every single out there.
And I just think that's really

1465
01:05:22,660 --> 01:05:24,780
useful, particularly if you
don't read around a lot of books

1466
01:05:24,790 --> 01:05:27,440
yourself.
You can see not only what the

1467
01:05:27,450 --> 01:05:29,560
book is, but you can actually
see a bit of the themes and the

1468
01:05:29,570 --> 01:05:31,360
content going through.
I think.

1469
01:05:31,370 --> 01:05:34,080
I think their resources are a
really good starting point and

1470
01:05:34,090 --> 01:05:36,240
obviously Ashley Booth does do
training on it as well like

1471
01:05:36,250 --> 01:05:39,220
he's.
Yeah, I mean he's the goatee for

1472
01:05:39,230 --> 01:05:43,350
for whole class reading really.
But other than that, if you just

1473
01:05:43,830 --> 01:05:46,030
ask on Twitter as well, there's
so many people doing it in so

1474
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:47,670
many different ways.
I'm sure there's local schools

1475
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:49,530
that you can go and observe or
go and see.

1476
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:51,450
Yeah, Brill.
Yeah, really good starting.

1477
01:05:51,460 --> 01:05:52,930
Point That's the one.
We'll we'll we'll find you on

1478
01:05:52,940 --> 01:05:53,490
Twitter.
Emily.

1479
01:05:53,500 --> 01:05:54,870
We'll you know, we'll follow.
Your guidance.

1480
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:56,770
Hayden hate.
This is what Hayden doesn't

1481
01:05:56,780 --> 01:05:58,170
know.
This is why I make the Twitter

1482
01:05:58,180 --> 01:05:59,750
and he doesn't get involved
because we found him.

1483
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,450
I know that by we I was being
part of the viewers Dylan.

1484
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:06,750
Ohh.
We as a collective viewer show

1485
01:06:06,820 --> 01:06:07,870
we'll get.
They're all here for a.

1486
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,370
Minute, anyway.
Yeah, they're exactly that.

1487
01:06:10,380 --> 01:06:14,070
Exactly that.
So very, very quickly we're

1488
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:15,770
gonna move on then.
But before we get into

1489
01:06:15,780 --> 01:06:18,390
transition, I did just want to
pick your brain because it's

1490
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,000
something again that we quite
find quite fascinating and it's

1491
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,870
something we've never done and
it's kind of linked there until

1492
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,350
it just said about the kind of
breadth of ability.

1493
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,800
And it's the fact that you teach
Year 5-6, so you teach a mixed

1494
01:06:29,810 --> 01:06:31,800
class.
And I know Sophie.

1495
01:06:31,870 --> 01:06:33,730
Reference the fact that high
school was smaller and they

1496
01:06:33,740 --> 01:06:35,910
share children as well.
But we didn't really go into

1497
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,900
much detail about this and it's
just something in general we

1498
01:06:38,910 --> 01:06:43,430
wanna touch on quickly.
How have you found teaching one

1499
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,090
class with two different year
groups in it, so children in

1500
01:06:46,100 --> 01:06:48,980
year five and year six?
Does it exaggerate those gaps in

1501
01:06:48,990 --> 01:06:51,410
attainment?
Do you find, do you feel like

1502
01:06:51,660 --> 01:06:54,850
it's tricky to kind of manage
the curriculum?

1503
01:06:54,860 --> 01:06:56,030
Like how how did you go about
it?

1504
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:59,530
How did you find it?
I I I'm I'm sure people have

1505
01:06:59,540 --> 01:07:01,830
different experiences of
experiences of it, but I've

1506
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:04,350
genuinely not found it much more
different to teaching a whole

1507
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,460
class of the same year group.
I think I'm really lucky with my

1508
01:07:07,470 --> 01:07:10,900
class because they are a great
bunch, they just sort of get on

1509
01:07:10,910 --> 01:07:13,030
with things.
But like with Year 5.

1510
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:16,660
And year six, I think they're so
interlinked aren't they?

1511
01:07:16,670 --> 01:07:19,580
Like the English, yeah,
framework is essentially the

1512
01:07:19,590 --> 01:07:22,020
same.
So English you do it as normal.

1513
01:07:22,250 --> 01:07:25,600
I think maths, a lot of the
Essex is scaffolding up from

1514
01:07:25,610 --> 01:07:28,610
where they are in year five.
So I tend to teach the six and

1515
01:07:28,620 --> 01:07:31,830
then just scaffold down because
actually the more that Year 5

1516
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,700
access year six stuff ready for
next year the better.

1517
01:07:34,830 --> 01:07:39,360
And but I tend, I do tend to
scaffold down rather than have

1518
01:07:39,370 --> 01:07:40,980
to scaffold them.
You know, different.

1519
01:07:40,990 --> 01:07:43,230
Interesting when you said that
then because I think a lot of

1520
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:44,670
people naturally go to.
OK.

1521
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:47,190
If I correct them and we'll
stretch where possible, but

1522
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:50,070
you've kind of, I like the way
that you've kind of just set the

1523
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:50,870
barrier there.
It's cool.

1524
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:52,990
You can all access the six and
we can help you out.

1525
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:54,210
If not, that's really.
Interesting.

1526
01:07:54,220 --> 01:07:56,680
I suppose if you've got the 5-6
like you have to, you have to be

1527
01:07:56,690 --> 01:07:59,850
hitting those year 6 objectives
for year sixes, don't you?

1528
01:07:59,980 --> 01:08:01,870
I can understand why you would
start there.

1529
01:08:01,940 --> 01:08:03,950
Yeah.
And I think it's just about,

1530
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,570
again, not putting that glass
ceiling on the children, because

1531
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,910
actually like if five and six
does encompass the same things,

1532
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,250
ultimately the difference
between 6 is you're covering a

1533
01:08:12,260 --> 01:08:13,470
bit more in the curriculum,
aren't you?

1534
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:16,390
You're accessing.
Things, and I do, you know, in

1535
01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:19,510
some of those lessons, if I
think it's a, it's going to be a

1536
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:23,390
bit too tricky for them.
I might have a separate activity

1537
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:26,729
should they need it, but I would
never expect them to do that.

1538
01:08:27,939 --> 01:08:31,069
And I think it depends on
especially in a mixed class what

1539
01:08:31,340 --> 01:08:35,740
TA you have as well.
So I've had a TA this year and

1540
01:08:35,750 --> 01:08:39,020
she works in the morning, so it
means that in the afternoon

1541
01:08:39,029 --> 01:08:41,550
anything that we do.
I mean people do tend to do it

1542
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,170
less in the afternoon anyway,
don't they?

1543
01:08:43,220 --> 01:08:45,750
But I haven't got anyone else to
help me, it is just me.

1544
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:48,130
So I can't separate the class.
I can't split them up.

1545
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,430
So we have as one.
And actually I always think,

1546
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:52,830
well why would I tell a child
you can only achieve this when

1547
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:54,010
they might be able to achieve
this.

1548
01:08:54,020 --> 01:08:57,310
And I think that's always been
my way to do it is to expect the

1549
01:08:57,410 --> 01:09:00,460
the maximum from them.
But always have their facility

1550
01:09:00,470 --> 01:09:02,960
to scaffold them to get there if
they yeah.

1551
01:09:03,010 --> 01:09:05,399
No, I love that approach and I
think that's that's really

1552
01:09:05,410 --> 01:09:08,810
powerful and like you said, only
when I really delved into this a

1553
01:09:08,819 --> 01:09:10,840
bit more in my own head knowing
you were coming on Emily did, I

1554
01:09:10,850 --> 01:09:13,140
think that the curriculum does
actually lend itself to that

1555
01:09:13,149 --> 01:09:15,240
kind of grouping.
I know as mass leads in our

1556
01:09:15,250 --> 01:09:18,620
school we very much talk about
the in our we're in a Junior

1557
01:09:18,630 --> 01:09:20,609
School, so three to six.
We very much talk about the

1558
01:09:20,620 --> 01:09:23,960
curriculum as almost two chunks,
the 3-4 chunk and the 5-6 chunk

1559
01:09:24,010 --> 01:09:26,979
and the the biggest jump in my
opinion in the curriculum is

1560
01:09:26,990 --> 01:09:29,600
going from 4:00 to 5:00 because
I think there's a lot of

1561
01:09:29,609 --> 01:09:31,240
coupling up.
From three to four where maybe

1562
01:09:31,250 --> 01:09:35,350
you add a digit or you know for
example fractions in three and

1563
01:09:35,359 --> 01:09:38,439
four are only same denominator
you you you only ever go into

1564
01:09:38,450 --> 01:09:41,120
different denominators for some
equivalent fraction changing

1565
01:09:41,130 --> 01:09:44,380
nothing, nothing too tricky
there whereas in five and six

1566
01:09:44,390 --> 01:09:46,840
it's still the same kind of
objectives you just stretch them

1567
01:09:46,850 --> 01:09:49,420
a bit at the top.
So it's true it does lend itself

1568
01:09:49,430 --> 01:09:53,779
to to that idea of five and six
and I wonder if those year five

1569
01:09:53,790 --> 01:09:57,160
children actually benefit from
having that kind of upper

1570
01:09:57,230 --> 01:09:59,040
expectation that you.
Said I've had a bit of a

1571
01:09:59,050 --> 01:10:00,600
realisation, actually was
talking to you.

1572
01:10:00,670 --> 01:10:03,350
Because I was thinking about my
classes, I've never.

1573
01:10:04,010 --> 01:10:06,590
I don't think I've ever taught a
class where I could say every

1574
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:10,650
single child in that class.
Was in the range of ability

1575
01:10:10,660 --> 01:10:12,450
within one year, if that makes
sense.

1576
01:10:12,490 --> 01:10:14,640
Like I don't, I've I've never
had a class, well let's say a

1577
01:10:14,650 --> 01:10:17,870
year six class, where the most
able child in a particular

1578
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:20,870
subject and the least able child
in that subject are within one

1579
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:22,550
year.
There's always usually multiple

1580
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,850
years anyway.
So the idea of having a year 5-6

1581
01:10:24,860 --> 01:10:27,810
class to me is just made me
realise that it's still going to

1582
01:10:27,820 --> 01:10:30,470
be probably the same kind of
range that you'd get anyway

1583
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:32,990
because you're going to have
more able children in the Year 5

1584
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,210
class and less able children in
the year 6 and it's just more of

1585
01:10:36,220 --> 01:10:38,140
them now.
They're not necessarily more of

1586
01:10:38,150 --> 01:10:40,020
them because you would.
As he condensed to one class.

1587
01:10:40,030 --> 01:10:44,140
But I can see how that's
actually not as scary maybe as I

1588
01:10:44,150 --> 01:10:46,630
thought it was before we started
this conversation.

1589
01:10:46,670 --> 01:10:49,250
Yeah, I've genuinely not really
found it any different.

1590
01:10:49,310 --> 01:10:52,400
And actually I think if you're
saying like I've had some

1591
01:10:52,410 --> 01:10:55,310
children who've come up and
there may be less confident or

1592
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:58,160
maybe a bit nervous about being
with your 6IN in the class,

1593
01:10:58,270 --> 01:11:00,080
actually they've really
flourished because I haven't

1594
01:11:00,090 --> 01:11:02,580
said to them or were you need to
stay and do your full work.

1595
01:11:02,590 --> 01:11:05,480
Actually still they've they've
been allowed to access the same

1596
01:11:05,490 --> 01:11:07,660
as their peers and actually
their progress has been

1597
01:11:07,810 --> 01:11:10,540
brilliant.
To the point where just when we

1598
01:11:10,550 --> 01:11:13,250
did this at the week before
Sats, they said let's all do a

1599
01:11:13,260 --> 01:11:15,380
Year 6 arithmetic paper and see
how we do.

1600
01:11:15,470 --> 01:11:17,990
And actually they were like, I'm
already getting half the marks

1601
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:19,940
on this and I was like, yeah, of
course you are because you've

1602
01:11:19,950 --> 01:11:21,210
done most of the content on
this.

1603
01:11:21,220 --> 01:11:24,000
We've just, you know they they
need reminding that actually

1604
01:11:24,010 --> 01:11:26,180
it's all of their key stage at
least to year 6.

1605
01:11:26,190 --> 01:11:29,140
And it was exactly the point for
them to see that that

1606
01:11:29,150 --> 01:11:30,340
arithmetic.
They've done in year three,

1607
01:11:30,350 --> 01:11:32,640
they've done in year four,
they've done it in year five,

1608
01:11:32,690 --> 01:11:35,070
year 6 isn't scary.
You've you've done most of the

1609
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:37,470
work already and I think that
was a really nice moment for

1610
01:11:37,480 --> 01:11:39,900
them as well.
Here is something that baffles

1611
01:11:39,910 --> 01:11:41,090
me.
And you can help me with this

1612
01:11:41,100 --> 01:11:42,670
one.
Firstly, it's important.

1613
01:11:42,820 --> 01:11:46,750
Is your school A1 form entry?
Is that why you've got Yeah or

1614
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:49,310
half form entry maybe Is it?
Quite a small school.

1615
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,110
One form in key stage one and
then.

1616
01:11:52,830 --> 01:11:55,810
Two classes in key stage 2.
Yeah.

1617
01:11:55,820 --> 01:11:58,010
OK, so. 3/4 Are they together
year?

1618
01:11:58,020 --> 01:12:01,190
3/4 as well?
Yeah, 3-4 and a couple of fives,

1619
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,870
cuz I've already got a class of
33, so some of the fives.

1620
01:12:03,930 --> 01:12:05,150
Ohh wow.
OK.

1621
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:06,490
Yeah, I'm with you, I'm with
you.

1622
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:12,230
So do you have to have different
planning in like a two year

1623
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:15,740
cycle because your year fives
that are in the year 5-6 class,

1624
01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:18,100
so they then just stay in the
same class next year and now

1625
01:12:18,110 --> 01:12:19,940
they're the year 6 is in the
Year 5 six class?

1626
01:12:21,220 --> 01:12:22,470
How does that work with
planning?

1627
01:12:23,770 --> 01:12:25,750
I mean, I wouldn't have to have
that problem because I'm not

1628
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:30,420
going to be there next year.
Ohh, I don't know.

1629
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,340
No I I think I think they have
got they would do the maths and

1630
01:12:35,350 --> 01:12:39,470
the English on a two year but
the the topics themselves are on

1631
01:12:39,480 --> 01:12:44,850
a four year cycle so I guess the
English if you would link it I I

1632
01:12:44,860 --> 01:12:47,930
don't know I'm I don't tend to
link my English to topic very

1633
01:12:47,940 --> 01:12:50,310
much I tend to sort of try and
do it in the moment and do

1634
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:53,610
writing for purpose.
But if you've got 4 cycles of

1635
01:12:53,660 --> 01:12:56,190
English topic then even if
you're doing persuasion

1636
01:12:56,380 --> 01:12:58,750
theoretically you can then
change your persuasion to be

1637
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:00,150
about something to do with your
topic.

1638
01:13:00,220 --> 01:13:02,690
So they they've done it really
well in that way it lends itself

1639
01:13:02,700 --> 01:13:04,150
really nicely to the fact that
your.

1640
01:13:04,220 --> 01:13:07,030
English is always changing.
Maths is a little bit harder,

1641
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:08,200
isn't it?
I mean, you're gonna have to

1642
01:13:08,210 --> 01:13:10,890
make sure that you've got that
sort of challenge element for

1643
01:13:10,900 --> 01:13:13,970
them there, but actually.
And I mean, you guys are the

1644
01:13:13,980 --> 01:13:17,110
maths guys here, and maybe it's
in other schools, but I tend to

1645
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:22,070
find that reasoning in 345, if
they're in a separate class,

1646
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,530
doesn't tend to equate to
reasoning in a reasoning paper

1647
01:13:25,540 --> 01:13:28,270
in year six.
So I think that actually once

1648
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:31,030
they hit year six, they've done
all the work for Year 5.

1649
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:33,700
They're confident with their
strategies, but now they can

1650
01:13:33,710 --> 01:13:35,600
actually look at what year 6
reasoning means.

1651
01:13:35,610 --> 01:13:38,750
Because otherwise, again, do we
want to teach the test?

1652
01:13:38,820 --> 01:13:40,270
No.
Do we want to set them up for

1653
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:42,370
fail by never exposing them to
the questions?

1654
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:44,350
No.
And I think that's a really nice

1655
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,660
way of then.
Building on that in year 6.

1656
01:13:46,730 --> 01:13:49,710
It's one of the hardest elements
of of year six I think is that

1657
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:53,740
balance between that it the
eternal pressure of teach of

1658
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:57,050
being like teach to the test or
you have failed your job.

1659
01:13:57,130 --> 01:13:59,760
But also I don't want to teach
to the test because it's boring

1660
01:13:59,770 --> 01:14:01,490
and horrible.
So you've got to find the

1661
01:14:01,500 --> 01:14:03,880
balance and.
Like we've said before a million

1662
01:14:03,890 --> 01:14:07,170
times when you're the best time
to teach reasoning and problem

1663
01:14:07,180 --> 01:14:10,020
solving is when you're doing
that in the lesson and it's

1664
01:14:10,030 --> 01:14:13,300
bespoke to like what they're
learning at the time and and and

1665
01:14:13,310 --> 01:14:15,700
we've spoken a lot about how
it's.

1666
01:14:15,790 --> 01:14:18,970
It's again pragmatism versus
like what you actually want to

1667
01:14:18,980 --> 01:14:21,710
do with them.
Because in my year four class

1668
01:14:22,580 --> 01:14:24,830
our reasoning and problem
solving sometimes looks like

1669
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,290
looks like year two and three
reasoning and problem solving.

1670
01:14:27,340 --> 01:14:31,020
And the reason is because
they're not yet fully secure on

1671
01:14:31,030 --> 01:14:33,970
the actual procedures on how to
do the mathematical

1672
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:37,350
calculations.
That even if we spend time

1673
01:14:37,420 --> 01:14:40,620
unpicking word problems and
reasoning, sometimes it's not

1674
01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:42,430
relevant because they'll get to
the end, realise what they've

1675
01:14:42,440 --> 01:14:44,080
got to do, but they still can't
do short multiplication

1676
01:14:44,090 --> 01:14:47,910
properly, so it's.
Such a fine balance and you've

1677
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:49,970
alluded to it a few times in
this conversation, which has

1678
01:14:49,980 --> 01:14:53,640
been really interesting about
always hanging over our heads as

1679
01:14:53,650 --> 01:14:55,410
teachers.
No matter what is that thought

1680
01:14:55,420 --> 01:14:58,300
that I know at the end of year 6
they're going to do SATS paper

1681
01:14:58,350 --> 01:15:01,180
and I just wonder how different
our practise would be if that

1682
01:15:01,190 --> 01:15:04,750
wasn't there.
I mean I think my view is a

1683
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:06,830
little bit more controversial
about the stats in the sense

1684
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:08,590
that I don't actually think
there's the test should be got

1685
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,900
rid of themselves.
I think they are a really good

1686
01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:15,140
baseline and I think especially
as a year six teacher you do

1687
01:15:15,150 --> 01:15:19,120
sometimes see data inflating.
I see the school is it last week

1688
01:15:19,130 --> 01:15:20,800
for this.
It's not controversial.

1689
01:15:20,810 --> 01:15:23,410
It's completely true.
And yeah, it's it's so important

1690
01:15:23,420 --> 01:15:26,460
for it to not be.
And it's like my driving aim as

1691
01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:29,800
lower school to to not do this
to my upper school colleagues

1692
01:15:29,810 --> 01:15:31,260
because what's the point?
Yeah.

1693
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:34,380
And I think that's exactly why,
you know, I think, I think Sats

1694
01:15:34,390 --> 01:15:36,280
do have a purpose.
I think they're a really good

1695
01:15:36,290 --> 01:15:40,070
baseline.
My issue is the publication of

1696
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,180
the league tables and the
results nationally.

1697
01:15:42,190 --> 01:15:45,800
And I think that's what most
people would say because I I

1698
01:15:45,810 --> 01:15:49,830
genuinely have never had.
Children upset in sats week

1699
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,170
feeling the pressure like
they'll feel the you know the

1700
01:15:52,180 --> 01:15:54,540
the old anxiety.
It's a test some people do but

1701
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:57,450
they all come out very chilled.
We make it a very relaxed

1702
01:15:57,460 --> 01:15:59,630
experience for them.
I think my class I would say

1703
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:01,880
were blase about it this year
which I don't know if I'd gone

1704
01:16:01,890 --> 01:16:04,910
too far the other way.
But no it was really they were

1705
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:06,880
really relaxed and we got to the
end of the week and they're like

1706
01:16:06,890 --> 01:16:09,010
ohh there's done now like that's
it.

1707
01:16:09,020 --> 01:16:11,370
And I think if that's the
atmosphere we create for them

1708
01:16:11,380 --> 01:16:13,370
where they haven't got the
pressure of those results which

1709
01:16:13,380 --> 01:16:16,310
ultimately is coming from.
School isn't it?

1710
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:19,630
Yes, about wanting to get those
results if they're not published

1711
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:21,530
nationally and we're not
compared against each other and

1712
01:16:21,540 --> 01:16:23,290
we take that cohort for what it
is.

1713
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:26,110
The Sats themselves aren't a
problem and I think I try and

1714
01:16:26,180 --> 01:16:28,710
put that into my teaching and
not teach them to the test too

1715
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,400
much, but just really
incorporate it into into the

1716
01:16:32,410 --> 01:16:34,730
classroom so that they don't
seem like a scary thing.

1717
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,810
A reasoning paper is going to be
terrifying if you've never seen

1718
01:16:37,820 --> 01:16:40,630
those reasoning questions.
So by just putting it into your

1719
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,130
teaching, you're not teaching to
the test, you're just exposing

1720
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,980
accessing different problems.
That's the way it always see it

1721
01:16:47,990 --> 01:16:50,760
myself.
I I I must say, I'm going to say

1722
01:16:50,770 --> 01:16:52,620
right now I actually, I
completely agree with you.

1723
01:16:52,670 --> 01:16:55,840
I don't think that I'm
inherently against testing.

1724
01:16:55,910 --> 01:16:59,070
And I know Hayden had a very
similar opinion as to what

1725
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:01,090
you've just said.
When are year Sixes came out

1726
01:17:01,100 --> 01:17:03,580
this week because there was
obviously a big furore online

1727
01:17:03,630 --> 01:17:05,940
and it almost took a couple of
days for that to build up and

1728
01:17:05,950 --> 01:17:08,840
snowball.
And the reason why I found it

1729
01:17:08,850 --> 01:17:11,920
interesting is yet I did think
that the reading and Hayden has

1730
01:17:11,930 --> 01:17:14,620
an opinion on the reading paper
was actually I still do think it

1731
01:17:14,630 --> 01:17:16,500
was trickier than normal in
parts.

1732
01:17:16,780 --> 01:17:20,470
But I don't think that.
It's because it was a test that

1733
01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:22,570
it was bad.
I I think that it was maybe

1734
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,350
someone said in the news, ohh
yeah, my son had done 16 sacks

1735
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:27,090
practise papers and none of them
were as hard as this.

1736
01:17:27,100 --> 01:17:29,010
And I was like, well there's
your first problem, like stop,

1737
01:17:29,020 --> 01:17:31,330
stop halfway through that
sentence, like there you go.

1738
01:17:31,380 --> 01:17:33,050
You just kind of answered your
own question.

1739
01:17:33,220 --> 01:17:35,390
Yeah, that's not even sixteen
set of papers for him to do

1740
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:36,770
about.
It no, I thought the same thing

1741
01:17:36,780 --> 01:17:38,540
and it was literally 16 and I
was like, what?

1742
01:17:38,550 --> 01:17:40,690
What's this?
It's just some dad like putting

1743
01:17:40,700 --> 01:17:43,630
this pressure on his kid for a
Sats test that realistically,

1744
01:17:43,670 --> 01:17:45,930
you know, it's gonna have
implications later on in terms

1745
01:17:45,940 --> 01:17:48,450
of maybe secondaries use it for
their predicted grades and

1746
01:17:48,460 --> 01:17:51,730
stuff, but.
No, yeah, this is the thing.

1747
01:17:51,740 --> 01:17:53,800
I was talking to a secondary
teacher and they almost kind of

1748
01:17:53,810 --> 01:17:55,450
went, ohh, really did they still
do that?

1749
01:17:55,460 --> 01:17:58,850
And it's just I think this is
gonna really, really nicely on

1750
01:17:58,860 --> 01:18:03,510
Hayden to the last bulk of this
episode, which is transition.

1751
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:04,670
So we'll take a very quick
break.

1752
01:18:07,610 --> 01:18:10,280
So Emily, we want to move on now
and talk a little bit about the

1753
01:18:10,290 --> 01:18:14,080
second topic of this episode,
which is all to do with

1754
01:18:14,290 --> 01:18:17,100
transition now as a year six
teacher myself, I'm super

1755
01:18:17,110 --> 01:18:20,880
invested in this part of the
conversation because as far as

1756
01:18:20,890 --> 01:18:24,860
I'm aware, you have some extra
role in transition or have had

1757
01:18:24,870 --> 01:18:26,360
some extra role in transition
before.

1758
01:18:26,370 --> 01:18:27,780
Is that right?
Maybe you could tell us a bit

1759
01:18:27,790 --> 01:18:29,010
more about?
That, yeah.

1760
01:18:29,020 --> 01:18:31,640
I actually worked at a secondary
school as a transition teacher

1761
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:36,450
for a year, so prior to that, I
was working at a school that

1762
01:18:36,460 --> 01:18:39,250
was.
In a in a trust and as part of

1763
01:18:39,260 --> 01:18:43,450
that I asked to go and observe
secondary colleagues about how

1764
01:18:43,460 --> 01:18:45,350
they teach because I just
thought it would help my in

1765
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:47,650
practise.
From that I became part of a

1766
01:18:47,660 --> 01:18:50,230
working group at a local
secondary about how we can make

1767
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:54,750
transition better and from being
part of that I then had our

1768
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:57,790
trusts secondary school ask if
they can come and observe me.

1769
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,020
I think they were observing
different colleagues in

1770
01:19:00,030 --> 01:19:02,910
different schools and anyway
they came in, they watched me

1771
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,730
and I ended up going to work as
a transition teacher at that

1772
01:19:05,740 --> 01:19:08,860
secondary school helping.
The Essex go into year seven and

1773
01:19:08,930 --> 01:19:11,340
beyond, obviously through the
whole year, but it was a really

1774
01:19:11,350 --> 01:19:14,080
interesting role.
That is awesome because I can

1775
01:19:14,090 --> 01:19:18,460
imagine again as the year 6
teacher that there is a

1776
01:19:18,510 --> 01:19:22,540
ridiculously huge difference
between year six and year seven.

1777
01:19:22,630 --> 01:19:25,180
I just get that feeling and
opinion from parents.

1778
01:19:25,190 --> 01:19:28,040
I spoke to our children, I've
seen after year six they come

1779
01:19:28,050 --> 01:19:31,040
back and say hello and even just
teachers that are like, oh,

1780
01:19:31,050 --> 01:19:32,060
what?
You do that in your six.

1781
01:19:32,070 --> 01:19:33,720
We do that in year seven as
well.

1782
01:19:33,790 --> 01:19:37,260
And I've developed this opinion
that Year 7.

1783
01:19:37,510 --> 01:19:40,600
Seven is basically like a repeat
if you're 6 and it's just the

1784
01:19:40,610 --> 01:19:43,300
same thing, but I don't know how
much of that is just based on

1785
01:19:43,310 --> 01:19:44,760
nothing and how much of that is
true.

1786
01:19:44,770 --> 01:19:47,920
So you've been there.
What was, what is it like?

1787
01:19:48,150 --> 01:19:51,320
I mean I didn't want to teach
maths when I was in secondary

1788
01:19:51,330 --> 01:19:53,640
because I was like I can't do
it, it's secondary maths.

1789
01:19:53,710 --> 01:19:57,210
It was the same pretty much.
They do do sort of a base year,

1790
01:19:57,220 --> 01:19:59,160
they do extend them.
There is there is some new

1791
01:19:59,170 --> 01:20:02,200
learning of course there is
actually A7, but actually it is

1792
01:20:02,250 --> 01:20:04,830
a lot of them getting to grips
with the basics that they have

1793
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,720
done in year six.
I think the biggest difference.

1794
01:20:07,850 --> 01:20:11,210
Is.
The routines of the day.

1795
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:15,110
So the the teaching in front of
the children is very, you know,

1796
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:18,370
very similar.
It's the actual routines of

1797
01:20:18,380 --> 01:20:20,770
going between classrooms, having
to have their own equipment,

1798
01:20:20,780 --> 01:20:23,850
having to have their own books
that that's the biggest change

1799
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:25,790
for them.
I found the actual being in

1800
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:29,580
front of the class teaching
very, very similar.

1801
01:20:30,870 --> 01:20:33,820
It it was sort of.
When I came back into year six,

1802
01:20:33,830 --> 01:20:37,920
it was having a knowledge of.
How it was different for them

1803
01:20:37,930 --> 01:20:39,320
that I could then put into my
own classroom.

1804
01:20:39,330 --> 01:20:41,690
So I probably am a little bit
stricter maybe than other people

1805
01:20:41,700 --> 01:20:44,790
who are in primary, but I think
it it just gets them ready for

1806
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:47,820
that expectation that they're
gonna have in secondary school.

1807
01:20:47,830 --> 01:20:50,340
I think it's seeing them as year
6.5.

1808
01:20:50,350 --> 01:20:52,920
That's how I like to think of
it, that they're they need to

1809
01:20:52,930 --> 01:20:55,450
start their transition from
September, not from July and

1810
01:20:55,460 --> 01:20:58,140
that's where transition fails.
A lot of children I think is

1811
01:20:58,150 --> 01:21:01,170
that we teach we spot you know
spoon feed is not the right

1812
01:21:01,180 --> 01:21:02,150
word.
I think that's a bit.

1813
01:21:02,970 --> 01:21:05,440
That's that's not quite right.
But we give them so much in

1814
01:21:05,450 --> 01:21:07,970
primary and actually we need to
make them as independent as

1815
01:21:07,980 --> 01:21:11,930
possible during year six so that
they can then stand on their two

1816
01:21:11,940 --> 01:21:14,900
feet when they get into year 7.
I'm an avid believer of that as

1817
01:21:14,910 --> 01:21:18,240
well about that independence and
and I agree September even

1818
01:21:18,250 --> 01:21:21,020
earlier there's no there's it
doesn't need to be this thing

1819
01:21:21,030 --> 01:21:23,760
where it's like ohh, it's July
now so now we have to do the

1820
01:21:23,770 --> 01:21:25,700
transition stuff and it always
becomes like a token thing.

1821
01:21:25,710 --> 01:21:27,740
That's what we do now we do
transition stuff.

1822
01:21:27,790 --> 01:21:30,400
It absolutely needs to be that
we're preparing these children

1823
01:21:30,530 --> 01:21:33,070
throughout primary school and
obviously more weighted towards

1824
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:35,460
the end of primary school.
To go to secondary school, which

1825
01:21:35,470 --> 01:21:38,560
is a different experience.
So when you are in that role,

1826
01:21:38,570 --> 01:21:40,470
obviously you would have done a
few different things that you

1827
01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:42,320
talked about.
You didn't really want to teach

1828
01:21:42,330 --> 01:21:44,560
maths at first, but you ended up
teaching, it was fine.

1829
01:21:44,630 --> 01:21:48,760
What is there one area that you
feel like maybe you had the most

1830
01:21:48,770 --> 01:21:51,290
impact, or at least that you
identified perhaps that might

1831
01:21:51,300 --> 01:21:56,420
have the most impact on easing
that process of transition?

1832
01:21:56,690 --> 01:21:59,120
I think they're part of the
transition that I.

1833
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:02,970
Notice the most impact on from
being in that role was actually

1834
01:22:02,980 --> 01:22:04,970
building this sort of pastoral
relationship.

1835
01:22:04,980 --> 01:22:08,470
So I only worked in year seven.
I didn't work across year eight

1836
01:22:08,980 --> 01:22:11,090
either.
It was sort of gesture seven I

1837
01:22:11,100 --> 01:22:13,390
worked with and it was really
nice to sort of be that face

1838
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,890
that they see in front of their
classroom, not just as a tutor,

1839
01:22:16,900 --> 01:22:19,210
but you know as a teacher.
That's always done that

1840
01:22:19,220 --> 01:22:22,110
corridor, always around where
they need it to be because

1841
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:24,470
that's the hardest part of
transition I found for the

1842
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:27,510
children is going from having
that sole person you see day in

1843
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:30,450
day out and talk to you about
everything you've complained to

1844
01:22:30,460 --> 01:22:31,880
them about.
Any things that actually you

1845
01:22:31,890 --> 01:22:34,760
think why are you telling me
this again, but they feel they

1846
01:22:34,770 --> 01:22:37,120
need to get it out, don't they?
And actually they don't really

1847
01:22:37,130 --> 01:22:40,680
have that person at secondary
because you're you see them for

1848
01:22:40,690 --> 01:22:42,670
what, 10 minutes in the morning,
10 minutes in the afternoon.

1849
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:44,770
That's not enough to resolve a
problem or feel you can tell

1850
01:22:44,780 --> 01:22:48,130
them about it.
But by being that sort of facing

1851
01:22:48,140 --> 01:22:50,830
the corridor that they knew was
there to sort of listen or take

1852
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:53,720
on these problems, I felt like
that that was the most impact

1853
01:22:53,730 --> 01:22:56,640
for them is you know head of
year sounds so serious.

1854
01:22:56,650 --> 01:22:59,240
They sort of almost associate it
with someone if they're in

1855
01:22:59,250 --> 01:23:01,660
trouble and I think by being a
separate.

1856
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:03,990
This to that I think that gave
them.

1857
01:23:05,050 --> 01:23:06,240
A lot.
I think that was probably the

1858
01:23:06,250 --> 01:23:09,430
most impactful part of the role.
You mentioned that it may be

1859
01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:11,430
made you a little bit more
strict when you came back to

1860
01:23:11,440 --> 01:23:13,860
year six.
Do you feel like there are any

1861
01:23:13,870 --> 01:23:17,410
other practises maybe that you'd
even recommend, like whether you

1862
01:23:17,420 --> 01:23:19,610
were like, oh man, we absolutely
need to be doing this now that

1863
01:23:19,620 --> 01:23:21,900
you've seen year seven, we need
to be doing this more in year

1864
01:23:21,910 --> 01:23:26,080
six or any advice really?
I think I noticed a lot more,

1865
01:23:26,090 --> 01:23:29,030
like it wasn't so much the
knowledge that they needed to

1866
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:31,430
have when they got to Year 7,
but it was the skills.

1867
01:23:31,480 --> 01:23:35,190
So something like reading a map.
Like, you know, we're also

1868
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:37,570
pushed for time when we look at
our foundation subject

1869
01:23:37,580 --> 01:23:40,120
curriculum.
I think that if they need to be

1870
01:23:40,130 --> 01:23:42,430
able to read a map when they get
there in year seven, and I knew

1871
01:23:42,440 --> 01:23:45,910
that, but I think seeing it in
practise I realised actually

1872
01:23:46,300 --> 01:23:48,830
that can fail them sometimes.
I remember the science teacher

1873
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:51,410
coming up to me being like, ohh
my gosh do none of these

1874
01:23:51,420 --> 01:23:53,210
children know how to draw a
graph?

1875
01:23:53,380 --> 01:23:55,610
And we know that we've taught
them that.

1876
01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:59,140
But actually to use it in a
science lesson independently as

1877
01:23:59,150 --> 01:24:02,270
the main part of their lesson,
those kids were blown away

1878
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,410
because they've never really
been asked to do that.

1879
01:24:04,480 --> 01:24:08,150
Just to sit down and 1st task,
here's some data, draw a graph.

1880
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:10,870
It's always quite.
Heavily guided in a maths lesson

1881
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,290
or you know, within that science
lesson.

1882
01:24:13,300 --> 01:24:17,130
So I think I was quite taken
aback about how key those skills

1883
01:24:17,140 --> 01:24:18,730
are, you know, timelines and
history.

1884
01:24:18,740 --> 01:24:22,620
Again, we do them in primary but
they're so important and I I

1885
01:24:22,630 --> 01:24:24,650
think I realised that the
knowledge we're teaching them is

1886
01:24:24,660 --> 01:24:27,490
great, they need it, but we
really need to underpin those

1887
01:24:27,500 --> 01:24:30,110
skills.
As as a Junior School teacher,

1888
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:33,390
so we get our children in year
three and all of us come sent

1889
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:35,510
tend to come from the same
Infant School with some from

1890
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:38,510
other areas.
It's quite easy for us sometimes

1891
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:41,710
to fall into the trap of.
Kind of passing blame down the

1892
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:43,650
chain and being like, well, why
haven't they?

1893
01:24:43,700 --> 01:24:46,950
How can they not do their data
underline, underline things

1894
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:49,150
quickly?
Now that you kind of stepped

1895
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:51,990
into a secondary school, did you
find that they had almost a

1896
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,320
similar view of primary school
teachers where they maybe

1897
01:24:54,330 --> 01:24:57,340
thought, well how are these kids
coming to year seven and they

1898
01:24:57,350 --> 01:24:58,750
can't even do this, this or
that?

1899
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:01,330
Did you find that was a fair
judgement or did you think maybe

1900
01:25:01,340 --> 01:25:03,780
sometimes they stretched it?
Like did you notice that?

1901
01:25:04,930 --> 01:25:07,840
I did notice it.
The first one was when someone

1902
01:25:07,850 --> 01:25:10,180
said, ohh, this boy can't even
underline with a ruler.

1903
01:25:10,190 --> 01:25:13,050
And I was like, well, he he can.
I think you're probably not

1904
01:25:13,060 --> 01:25:15,220
holding him to high enough
expectations.

1905
01:25:15,290 --> 01:25:18,840
And I think it was just because
the children know that these

1906
01:25:18,850 --> 01:25:20,810
teachers know nothing about
them.

1907
01:25:20,870 --> 01:25:24,560
So you can go there and just
write a minimal amount and that

1908
01:25:24,570 --> 01:25:26,840
teacher is never going to know
that that's what you've done.

1909
01:25:26,930 --> 01:25:29,760
And I think it's almost that
communication and that trust

1910
01:25:29,770 --> 01:25:31,940
between the establishments that
causes that problem.

1911
01:25:31,950 --> 01:25:35,420
So I mean coming back into
primary, so one way I've tried

1912
01:25:35,430 --> 01:25:37,110
to.
Fix that is I create a

1913
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:39,540
transition pack that I send up
with all the children.

1914
01:25:39,550 --> 01:25:42,140
They write a letter to the
school, which I make sure is

1915
01:25:42,150 --> 01:25:44,970
their best kind of writing.
And then that way they've had an

1916
01:25:44,980 --> 01:25:46,830
example of the writing from the
child.

1917
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:50,520
I get them to do a self-portrait
because again, it shows writings

1918
01:25:50,530 --> 01:25:53,010
and the only thing that they
need to worry about you are it

1919
01:25:53,020 --> 01:25:55,730
shows those creative children,
those autistic children who can

1920
01:25:55,740 --> 01:25:58,430
be pushed in that.
And then I do like a little

1921
01:25:58,820 --> 01:26:01,610
person outline which says what
they like, what they don't like,

1922
01:26:01,620 --> 01:26:04,470
what they think they're good at.
And that snapshot goes up with

1923
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:06,040
them as well and I think by the
children.

1924
01:26:06,110 --> 01:26:09,690
Knowing that the secondary
school have had that they know

1925
01:26:09,700 --> 01:26:13,400
what their writing is like, even
better is some secondaries I've

1926
01:26:13,410 --> 01:26:16,650
heard of put a piece of year six
writing in the front of their

1927
01:26:16,660 --> 01:26:20,190
year seven book ready that year
16 years.

1928
01:26:20,260 --> 01:26:22,850
Yeah, it's already there.
The year six knows that that

1929
01:26:22,900 --> 01:26:26,090
expectation is already there and
it does stop that standard

1930
01:26:26,100 --> 01:26:27,750
slipping.
I think it's something like 40.

1931
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:30,400
There's a 40% gap between
primary and secondary that it

1932
01:26:30,410 --> 01:26:35,060
drops over the summer.
So to get rid of that gap, show

1933
01:26:35,070 --> 01:26:36,940
them that you already know what
they can do.

1934
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:38,930
Have that expectation of them
straight away.

1935
01:26:38,940 --> 01:26:41,460
It's the expectation that is the
problem, not the level of the

1936
01:26:41,470 --> 01:26:43,990
work.
I am an absolute, an absolute

1937
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,550
convert already to that I can't.
It's one of those things where

1938
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:48,490
I'm like, how have I not thought
of that before?

1939
01:26:48,500 --> 01:26:50,230
How have I not thought to have
this thought train?

1940
01:26:50,440 --> 01:26:52,080
It's so.
True, yeah.

1941
01:26:52,090 --> 01:26:55,990
Without going into secondary, I
never would have even seen it or

1942
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:58,870
thought it, but straight away I
was like, actually, why am I not

1943
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:00,490
sending the?
Why am I not sending a piece of

1944
01:27:00,500 --> 01:27:01,890
work?
It's so simple.

1945
01:27:01,940 --> 01:27:04,920
Yeah, because like if I think.
Right now with children in my

1946
01:27:04,930 --> 01:27:07,320
class currently or in previous
years, there are so many

1947
01:27:07,330 --> 01:27:09,150
children that I have to hold
accountable all the time.

1948
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:11,210
Because if I don't, they will
honestly just do the bare

1949
01:27:11,220 --> 01:27:13,430
minimum.
They just, well, I get it with

1950
01:27:13,440 --> 01:27:14,560
people.
We all do it.

1951
01:27:14,650 --> 01:27:16,980
And I'm like, yeah, of course
they're gonna do that when they

1952
01:27:16,990 --> 01:27:19,460
go to secondary school and like,
hang on a minute, none of these

1953
01:27:19,470 --> 01:27:21,880
people know who I am back to
doing minimal.

1954
01:27:21,890 --> 01:27:25,360
I go and then the teachers will
just say you're just rubbish

1955
01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:27,100
year six.
So true.

1956
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:29,540
I'm absolutely gonna do that now
with the work, Send it up.

1957
01:27:29,650 --> 01:27:31,360
Yeah, well, I've got some
resources for it, so I can send

1958
01:27:31,370 --> 01:27:35,420
them over, but I think as well.
The fact that we in, we're

1959
01:27:35,430 --> 01:27:38,930
really lucky in primary to have
a tea in a class at some point

1960
01:27:38,940 --> 01:27:41,650
in the day, You know, I
sometimes you have a TA all day,

1961
01:27:41,660 --> 01:27:44,290
half a day, whatever.
But these children do have an

1962
01:27:44,300 --> 01:27:48,290
extra adult to help them on hand
a lot of the time and in

1963
01:27:48,300 --> 01:27:50,110
secondary TA don't work like
that.

1964
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:53,350
And actually they're spread so
much thinner that again I think

1965
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:55,100
they say, Oh well, this child
can't do anything.

1966
01:27:55,110 --> 01:27:57,220
That's probably because he's
never sat and done writing on

1967
01:27:57,230 --> 01:28:00,270
his own or never had to do it
without an adult being able to

1968
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:02,250
intervene and give him that
scaffolding.

1969
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:04,530
Whereas you are expected to be a
lot more independent.

1970
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:07,040
The secondary you do have to sit
in an English lesson and just

1971
01:28:07,050 --> 01:28:09,310
sort of get on with your own
work more often than not.

1972
01:28:09,370 --> 01:28:12,080
And I think, you know, that's a
big factor to it as well.

1973
01:28:12,090 --> 01:28:15,380
So another thing that I did is
actually the children in my

1974
01:28:15,390 --> 01:28:19,090
class, I made sure that at least
twice a week they worked on

1975
01:28:19,100 --> 01:28:21,120
their own.
Yes, I had resources out that

1976
01:28:21,130 --> 01:28:23,170
would help them.
I have scaffolding out that they

1977
01:28:23,180 --> 01:28:25,220
could independently access to
help them.

1978
01:28:25,290 --> 01:28:27,410
But I made sure that they didn't
have an adult constantly

1979
01:28:27,420 --> 01:28:30,060
intervening with them because I
felt I was actually failing them

1980
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:32,260
by doing that because they
didn't learn how to problem

1981
01:28:32,270 --> 01:28:35,620
solve or or you know, come up
with their own independent work.

1982
01:28:35,690 --> 01:28:38,150
And that's I think that's a huge
part of my practise that

1983
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,580
changed.
I think there's a really clear

1984
01:28:40,590 --> 01:28:43,100
message coming out of this and
if I was to try and summarise

1985
01:28:43,110 --> 01:28:46,050
and do correct me if I'm wrong,
there's kind of two levels to

1986
01:28:46,060 --> 01:28:48,230
this.
What I'm getting from this

1987
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:50,470
anyway as a year six teacher
that I'm taking as advice, which

1988
01:28:50,480 --> 01:28:55,750
is one we need to be setting up
our children to succeed in their

1989
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:59,770
transition to secondary school
across the year, passively

1990
01:28:59,780 --> 01:29:02,310
through our lessons by doing, by
developing their independence is

1991
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:04,030
not something, it's not a July
thing.

1992
01:29:04,460 --> 01:29:09,950
And the second thing is that we
have to remember that children

1993
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:11,470
aren't going to be held
accountable by us.

1994
01:29:11,550 --> 01:29:12,410
Anymore.
Yeah.

1995
01:29:12,420 --> 01:29:15,910
When there are secondary school
and we do have a part to play in

1996
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:17,900
ensuring that we minimise that
as much as possible.

1997
01:29:17,910 --> 01:29:20,620
I don't think it's fair to be
like, ohh, not my problem

1998
01:29:20,630 --> 01:29:21,670
anymore.
Yeah, six is done.

1999
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:23,770
See ya.
I think we need to be a little

2000
01:29:23,780 --> 01:29:26,270
bit more like, yeah, OK, I'm not
going to be teaching them next

2001
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:29,060
year, but they're.
I'm still a massive part of

2002
01:29:29,070 --> 01:29:32,310
their academic journey so I
really like the idea.

2003
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:35,420
I think I will take you up on
stealing those resources and

2004
01:29:35,430 --> 01:29:38,110
actually use them because I
think that's a fantastic idea,

2005
01:29:38,940 --> 01:29:41,370
holding that accountability and
also developing a bit of

2006
01:29:41,380 --> 01:29:43,310
independence as well.
Absolutely.

2007
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:46,050
And I I I can't recommend enough
that if you are a year six

2008
01:29:46,060 --> 01:29:49,870
teacher go and visit your feeder
school like early on in the year

2009
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:53,290
you know sort of September,
October see how they do things.

2010
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:55,990
And also you can see the kids
that you had in year 6 and you

2011
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:58,310
can sort of be like ohh that's
not the writing that you did

2012
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:00,910
when you were here last year.
It was that relationship.

2013
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:03,990
I think there needs to be such a
closer relationships and some

2014
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:06,770
schools do incredibly well, but
I think they're still almost

2015
01:30:06,780 --> 01:30:09,710
that distrust between primary
and secondaries because there is

2016
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:12,490
that gap between them.
Secondaries have to deal with so

2017
01:30:12,500 --> 01:30:14,490
many feeder.
Primary schools, whereas we just

2018
01:30:14,500 --> 01:30:17,830
have that one cohort we look
after and actually it's about

2019
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:20,290
building those relationships so
the children know that those

2020
01:30:20,300 --> 01:30:22,380
secondary teachers can go back
and be like, can you give me a

2021
01:30:22,390 --> 01:30:23,760
piece of their work from last
year?

2022
01:30:23,820 --> 01:30:27,420
I want and have more
accountability not just for the

2023
01:30:27,430 --> 01:30:29,150
teachers but for the children
also.

2024
01:30:29,750 --> 01:30:31,640
Amazing.
And as a year four teacher, I

2025
01:30:31,650 --> 01:30:34,030
just sat there and listened as I
promised, so I won't get

2026
01:30:34,040 --> 01:30:35,770
involved there.
Transition from year to four to

2027
01:30:35,780 --> 01:30:37,470
five is really important, guys,
you know you.

2028
01:30:37,480 --> 01:30:38,670
Really need to think about.
That as well.

2029
01:30:39,310 --> 01:30:42,940
But what we'll do very quickly
then just to kind of wrap up

2030
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:46,050
there, that's fascinating.
Emily, thank you so much for

2031
01:30:46,100 --> 01:30:48,350
both letting us know your
expertise about reading and

2032
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:50,450
transition as well.
But one last thing I wanted to

2033
01:30:50,460 --> 01:30:53,150
ask you about very, very quickly
seeing your Twitter.

2034
01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:54,690
We'll link that in the
description as well, but he

2035
01:30:54,700 --> 01:30:56,710
wants to go and find you.
But I'm sure they're already

2036
01:30:56,720 --> 01:30:58,590
following you Emily.
I'm sure they're already there,

2037
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:02,010
but I love this thing you've set
up this simple hashtag Teach

2038
01:31:02,020 --> 01:31:05,170
Your self-care Sunday.
What has been your favourite

2039
01:31:05,180 --> 01:31:08,520
Sunday so far that you've posted
online where you've just relaxed

2040
01:31:08,530 --> 01:31:11,770
and enjoyed yourself?
Ohh my gosh, now you've asked

2041
01:31:11,780 --> 01:31:13,080
me.
They've gone completely blank.

2042
01:31:14,250 --> 01:31:16,560
In general, in general, what
what's your go to?

2043
01:31:16,630 --> 01:31:19,080
If you had to design your own
self-care Sunday now where you

2044
01:31:19,090 --> 01:31:21,640
just you're you're in your happy
place, what would you be doing?

2045
01:31:22,030 --> 01:31:24,140
Ohh wow, easy.
I'd get up and I'd go for

2046
01:31:24,150 --> 01:31:25,750
brunch.
Brunch is the best meal of the

2047
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:27,410
day.
If you don't agree, you're

2048
01:31:27,420 --> 01:31:30,260
wrong.
I would then hope that it was

2049
01:31:30,270 --> 01:31:33,100
sunny outside and then I would
sit in the garden with a Fanta

2050
01:31:33,110 --> 01:31:35,380
lemon and.
Lemon.

2051
01:31:35,790 --> 01:31:40,240
The the perfect drink and I
would read for a while and then

2052
01:31:40,250 --> 01:31:43,770
I'd always finish it off with a
bath, probably in the evening

2053
01:31:43,780 --> 01:31:46,290
just to completely.
Facts Maybe wash my hair if I'm

2054
01:31:46,300 --> 01:31:47,720
feeling a little bit, A little
bit.

2055
01:31:47,730 --> 01:31:49,630
Extra Hayden, Do you think that
often?

2056
01:31:49,900 --> 01:31:51,050
Yeah.
I wash my hair.

2057
01:31:51,060 --> 01:31:52,750
Have a have a have a bath.
Yeah.

2058
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:54,290
Record a podcast.
Yeah.

2059
01:31:56,460 --> 01:31:59,090
Yeah, that's the, you know,
that's the idea.

2060
01:31:59,100 --> 01:32:02,460
I think it's about taking the
time to do what you like.

2061
01:32:02,470 --> 01:32:04,920
And for me it is all about food
and reading.

2062
01:32:05,730 --> 01:32:08,860
Ohh And with you on food
reading, I'll get there.

2063
01:32:08,870 --> 01:32:10,240
I'll get there.
I'm working on it.

2064
01:32:13,220 --> 01:32:14,810
Right, Emily, you've been
absolutely amazing.

2065
01:32:14,820 --> 01:32:19,110
But before we go, this is, you
know, arguably my favourite part

2066
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:21,730
of the podcast.
It's asking our guests to

2067
01:32:21,740 --> 01:32:24,630
provide us with some sort of
story from the classroom.

2068
01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:28,010
So, Emily, hey, do you have any
stories to share with us today

2069
01:32:28,060 --> 01:32:29,950
that may be embarrassing, maybe
heartwarming?

2070
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:31,470
I don't know, maybe just a bit
funny.

2071
01:32:31,900 --> 01:32:35,370
I'll go for embarrassing for me.
I just love it when they choose

2072
01:32:35,380 --> 01:32:35,910
that.
Come on.

2073
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:38,270
Perfect Two.
So I'll give you the first one.

2074
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:40,210
They're both to do with me being
Mumsy.

2075
01:32:40,220 --> 01:32:42,430
I am one of the most clumsy
people in the world.

2076
01:32:43,830 --> 01:32:46,560
A colleague came in to visit.
She was going on maternity leave

2077
01:32:46,570 --> 01:32:49,660
so she'd come in, brought her,
brought her new baby in with her

2078
01:32:49,750 --> 01:32:53,320
and was just coming to visit our
class and at some point I

2079
01:32:53,330 --> 01:32:56,900
tripped over my own foot.
Luckily I just given them back

2080
01:32:56,910 --> 01:33:00,080
to her.
I tripped with my infant, landed

2081
01:33:00,090 --> 01:33:04,700
on the flip chart board, hit my
head on the the touch screen, TV

2082
01:33:04,710 --> 01:33:07,690
on the way down and just
collapsed in a pile with the

2083
01:33:07,700 --> 01:33:11,360
Flipkart board in front of my
whole class with the other

2084
01:33:11,370 --> 01:33:14,880
teacher there as well and.
Because I'm silent.

2085
01:33:14,950 --> 01:33:17,880
And then I sort of popped up
like you do because you have to

2086
01:33:17,890 --> 01:33:20,440
be OK.
We popped up and one of the

2087
01:33:20,450 --> 01:33:23,420
girls really kindly put her hand
and went, ohh, did you know that

2088
01:33:23,430 --> 01:33:25,980
you're bleeding And I'd like cut
my head.

2089
01:33:27,180 --> 01:33:30,230
Have my whole class just sort of
look silently until I started

2090
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:33,420
laughing and then they all
laughed at me and it was, it was

2091
01:33:33,430 --> 01:33:35,780
still mentioned like two years
later.

2092
01:33:36,230 --> 01:33:38,900
Like children that weren't even
in that class were telling me

2093
01:33:38,910 --> 01:33:40,540
about the time I tripped over my
own foot.

2094
01:33:40,550 --> 01:33:42,620
And I think, yeah, I I was there
actually.

2095
01:33:42,910 --> 01:33:44,580
Yeah, still got there.
Still got the scar.

2096
01:33:44,590 --> 01:33:46,880
Scar.
Yeah, actually.

2097
01:33:46,890 --> 01:33:51,180
And then on a similar vein, I
was in the school hall and a boy

2098
01:33:51,190 --> 01:33:53,860
had been bought a skateboard for
his birthday.

2099
01:33:53,870 --> 01:33:55,470
You can probably guess where
this is going.

2100
01:33:55,730 --> 01:33:58,120
And I was like, I don't even
think skateboarding is it

2101
01:33:58,130 --> 01:33:59,460
harder.
That I could do it.

2102
01:33:59,730 --> 01:34:02,360
Got on the skateboard.
I could have done it.

2103
01:34:03,540 --> 01:34:06,550
And I came in the next day and I
was like, yeah, I can't really

2104
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:08,070
feel my arm.
It's gone a bit funny.

2105
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:10,330
And my head was like, you need
to go to hospital, like, what

2106
01:34:10,340 --> 01:34:12,960
have you done?
And it turns out that I I hadn't

2107
01:34:12,970 --> 01:34:15,790
dislocated my whole shoulder,
but something in my shoulder had

2108
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:18,710
become dislocated and I had to
turn my arm in a sling for three

2109
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:21,210
days.
Can I just ask, were you were

2110
01:34:21,220 --> 01:34:23,970
you skateboarding on the
skateboard with your feet?

2111
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:26,970
Or were you handstanding?
Like, what happened to get your

2112
01:34:26,980 --> 01:34:30,450
arm out of please?
I was on my feet, but I was so

2113
01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:33,810
awful at it that I completely
like head.

2114
01:34:33,880 --> 01:34:37,020
Backwards into the school who
had just fallen into my

2115
01:34:37,030 --> 01:34:40,040
shoulder.
But let me just to say I have

2116
01:34:40,050 --> 01:34:43,060
not skateboarded since and I
don't think I ever want to.

2117
01:34:43,250 --> 01:34:45,640
I love how the theme on both of
these stories is.

2118
01:34:45,710 --> 01:34:48,690
You were bleeding and had a
socket out and you were none the

2119
01:34:48,700 --> 01:34:51,160
wiser until someone had to say
ohh by the way your your your

2120
01:34:51,250 --> 01:34:52,980
your arm is falling off yours
also.

2121
01:34:53,110 --> 01:34:55,640
You feel like you're one of
those people that would lend

2122
01:34:55,650 --> 01:34:57,880
themselves to having like a
camera crew follow you and

2123
01:34:57,890 --> 01:35:00,920
you're following all the time.
But if you're this clumsy often,

2124
01:35:00,930 --> 01:35:03,080
as you say, then I feel like
that could be some good

2125
01:35:03,090 --> 01:35:04,600
entertainment.
What do you reckon?

2126
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,400
Ohh I I honestly in the worst I
went to I went to like Bristol

2127
01:35:08,410 --> 01:35:10,800
Zoo and they've got a ramp I
think this Bristol and they got

2128
01:35:10,810 --> 01:35:13,200
like a ramp down into the
Penguins just completely split

2129
01:35:13,210 --> 01:35:17,100
down it in front of slip down.
If you didn't make Penguin

2130
01:35:17,110 --> 01:35:19,340
noises as you were going down,
then I'll tell you.

2131
01:35:19,350 --> 01:35:21,970
Missed a trick there.
I was in so much shock, just

2132
01:35:21,980 --> 01:35:24,850
like slid down this round I've
got stuck at the top of the

2133
01:35:24,860 --> 01:35:26,700
Legoland Dragon ride with my
class.

2134
01:35:27,100 --> 01:35:30,080
The roller coaster just stopped
and my cars looked at me and

2135
01:35:30,090 --> 01:35:33,180
they were like, you have done
this to us, this is.

2136
01:35:33,300 --> 01:35:36,030
You as if you've got control.
And at that point you turned

2137
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:37,700
round and went.
And This is why you have to work

2138
01:35:37,710 --> 01:35:39,680
hard in secondary school ever
since.

2139
01:35:40,530 --> 01:35:43,310
The power we have.
To that no one would go on the

2140
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:46,180
rise of me because they we broke
down on a water ride as well

2141
01:35:46,190 --> 01:35:48,620
right at the top.
Ohh, this was my first problem.

2142
01:35:48,630 --> 01:35:50,850
This was like my second and they
were all like, we don't wanna go

2143
01:35:50,860 --> 01:35:52,780
on with you anymore because
we're just gonna have to find

2144
01:35:52,790 --> 01:35:54,500
other matters.
The ladders.

2145
01:35:54,510 --> 01:35:57,040
Everyone says why do they have
ladders on a roller coaster?

2146
01:35:57,330 --> 01:36:00,460
So you can write down on it.
We have to do it.

2147
01:36:01,210 --> 01:36:02,660
You had to climb down the
ladders.

2148
01:36:02,710 --> 01:36:04,680
Yeah, we couldn't get down.
We were stuck at the top.

2149
01:36:04,690 --> 01:36:07,940
We had to go.
Lovers, that was not in my risk

2150
01:36:07,950 --> 01:36:10,600
assessment, I can tell you.
Ohh, my goodness, I'm.

2151
01:36:10,610 --> 01:36:12,720
I'm kind of now.
This is like a new kind of

2152
01:36:12,730 --> 01:36:14,410
perspective on this whole
interview because I'm looking at

2153
01:36:14,420 --> 01:36:16,420
that bookshelf behind you.
I'm quite worried something

2154
01:36:16,430 --> 01:36:18,330
happened.
Like, don't climb it, don't

2155
01:36:18,340 --> 01:36:21,780
skateboard around it.
Just maybe don't be near it.

2156
01:36:21,890 --> 01:36:23,600
No, I haven't got any
skateboards to hand at them and

2157
01:36:23,610 --> 01:36:26,610
actually, so it should be OK.
It's just been sat on one this

2158
01:36:26,620 --> 01:36:28,850
whole interview.
What are you doing?

2159
01:36:29,500 --> 01:36:35,580
That was dangerous enough.
Well, listen, Emily, we have

2160
01:36:35,590 --> 01:36:37,510
loved this chat.
I know I can speak for Dylan

2161
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:39,100
here because I I personally
have.

2162
01:36:39,110 --> 01:36:40,480
I feel like I've learned loads
from you.

2163
01:36:40,490 --> 01:36:42,910
So thank you for sharing your
wisdom with myself and all of

2164
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:44,900
the listeners and viewers.
It has been absolutely

2165
01:36:44,910 --> 01:36:46,440
incredible.
And also thank you for leaving

2166
01:36:46,450 --> 01:36:49,020
us with such a good laugh at the
end of this episode.

2167
01:36:49,030 --> 01:36:51,990
I feel like we got loads of
stories, not just the one.

2168
01:36:52,120 --> 01:36:53,880
And it's been an absolute
pleasure.

2169
01:36:54,150 --> 01:36:55,700
You're welcome.
Thank you so much for having me

2170
01:36:55,710 --> 01:36:59,890
on.
Peyton I'd love to sit and

2171
01:36:59,900 --> 01:37:02,550
dissect this, but I think the
viewers, ohh, they have to go

2172
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:04,610
and go to work because it's been
all night this.

2173
01:37:04,620 --> 01:37:07,110
Podcast Yeah, anyone listens to
this on their travels?

2174
01:37:07,400 --> 01:37:09,910
Sorry for making you 2.
Hours.

2175
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:12,660
OK, yeah, because it was just
sort the commute out for the

2176
01:37:12,670 --> 01:37:14,710
whole week rather than for one
day which is the whole week.

2177
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:17,800
To listen to this spread over
time and give us a 5 star review

2178
01:37:17,810 --> 01:37:19,730
on Apple iTunes.
Whatever the hell it is, none of

2179
01:37:19,740 --> 01:37:22,290
us have an iPhone.
So we don't have it, but we'd

2180
01:37:22,300 --> 01:37:24,500
like you to.
So I think we should end it

2181
01:37:24,510 --> 01:37:26,380
there, Dylan, because it's been
a very, very long episode.

2182
01:37:26,390 --> 01:37:28,740
Thank you so much for listening.
I have, I have actually got

2183
01:37:28,750 --> 01:37:31,010
another story.
No, we're gonna end the I'm the

2184
01:37:31,020 --> 01:37:32,720
editor, so I'm just gonna cut
you off.

2185
01:37:33,030 --> 01:37:33,620
Story from the.