Ep 124: Should We Shorten The School Summer Holidays?

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach the

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name's Hayden.
And this week we're going to

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take a look at the question,
should we be shortening the

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school summer holiday?
We'll talk about the rising

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costs in childcare.
How long is too long off for our

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kids from school?
And whether shorter holidays

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would make teacher recruitment
and retention even worse.

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As always, you can get in touch
with us via our socials with

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links down in the description.
If you like this episode, why

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not leave us a review and share
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Let's dive in.
Right, Hayden?

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Straight in.
Should we not have a somewhat up

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there?
No.

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OK, cool.
Last one.

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Well, that'll do.
That'll solve the crisis, won't

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it?
Why don't?

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Why doesn't no one have anything
nice ever?

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Yeah, that'll solve it.
Wouldn't.

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It I think we've made one thing
clear from this podcast over the

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last 100 and whatever episodes
is it's all about race to the

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bottom.
Yeah, we are advocates of racing

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to the bottom.
We should all have nothing.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So if something's hard or bad or

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got worse over time, the answer
is to make it worse for

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everyone.
Exactly.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unbelievable.

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Yeah.
But I don't, I don't, I don't

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actually get it.
I genuinely don't understand it

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when you look at the situation
we're in with some holidays and

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stuff.
And OK, jokes aside, it's it's

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in the public narrative right
now, isn't it?

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It's on media.
You see clips I saw, I think her

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name's Ashley James talking
about it on This morning.

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And, and people make really good
points.

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It's not a bad point, is it, to
say that the cost of childcare

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during the summer holidays is
astronomical.

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And but it just when when the
answer to that is so the school

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system has to change.
Yeah, well, she, she made that

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point, didn't she?
She, she basically said, oh, the

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school system, it's like it's
stuck in the 1950s.

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And you know what?
There are parts of that

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statement where I'm where I'm
like, yeah, I say the same thing

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all the time.
There are lots of elements of

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our school system where it's
like, for Christ's sake.

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And we like, modernise it a bit.
It's stuck in the 1950s with

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housewives at home who can look
after the children all summer

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long.
That's why it didn't, you know,

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it used to be fine and we built
it around this system and didn't

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cost anything because you had
mums at home looking after the

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kids.
And now we just don't have that

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anymore.
And I and I and I literally was

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listening to that thinking,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's

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true.
It is completely different.

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Everything is completely
different now.

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Like what?
The working lives of families is

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totally different.
To sustain a household now, it

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really does generally need two
people working to do so.

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And maybe in the past it didn't
do that, didn't need that as

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much, right.
But then it.

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But then to use that to then say
so there's clearly only one

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answer, which is we need to get
rid of this or shorten the

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summer holidays or do whatever
it is so that that cost is

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alleviated.
And everyone be like, yeah,

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that's the only, that's the only
logical way of thinking about

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that.
It's just a bit like it's a bit

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annoying.
So let's open this conversation

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up a bit more like, is that it?
Is that the answer, Dylan, or

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can we think about this
differently?

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I, I think you've got to think
about it differently.

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There's, there's so much that
comes into this.

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It's like a scattergun almost of
my brain goes to seven different

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points to make at one at one
time.

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And it's kind of frustrating
because the first thing I think

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about is the whole retention and
recruitment crisis that we've

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got in teaching.
And when you think about

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teaching and the pros, the good
part, it absolutely is a good

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thing that we get 13 weeks off a
year and that we get a six week

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summer holiday.
That's a that's a positive.

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The job that is going to be part
of some people's decision to go

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into teaching.
Yeah, because maybe they've got

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their own children and they
think, well, great, I'm saving

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on childcare.
That's going to be a thing.

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Brilliant.
That's cool.

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But if we just reduce that
number of holidays we get

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because we just say, well,
there's a childcare problem,

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most people only get 20 to 25
days of of a holiday a year.

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That's four to five weeks
compared to 13 weeks off for

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their kids.
Wow, isn't that bad If you go to

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therefore teachers should get
less holiday, you're going to

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exacerbate the problem of
retention.

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People won't stay in the job
anymore.

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So So what?
You know, if your answer is to

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just simply say, yeah, teachers
get all that time off, they

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should just be fine with just
ten weeks off a year instead

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that OK, fine, have that
opinion.

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But when you see that
recruitment and retention gets

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even worse because of that, you
can't say you wasn't expecting

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that.
Exactly.

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It's it's the same.
Do you know what it reminds me

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of when we talked about VAT on
private schools?

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It's probably the same people
that were also saying, no, we

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shouldn't, we shouldn't start
charging VAT on private schools

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because then they can't cope and
we've already got a crisis.

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We don't want any more of these
children leaving private

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schools.
We need families, hard working

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families to be able to have
this.

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So we can't take it away.
That to me is the same sort of

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analogy of like, OK, we'll look
at the teacher recruitment and

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retention crisis then and then
justify use the same logic.

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If we take away the holidays,
we'll have an even worse

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problem.
Like it's, it's the same line of

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thinking, but people just choose
to ignore it because they see

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teachers and it's like, well,
they get more than me, they get

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more than the average.
So let's just take that away.

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One thing you could do, and I
think I don't think people want

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the best of both worlds, is if
you were to do that, let's say

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the reality was, do you know
what teachers, I'm really sorry,

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but you no longer get this much.
You still get like 10 weeks,

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still more than the average, but
we've taken a few of those weeks

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off and we've taken it from the
summer.

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I'd expect to be paid then.
Yeah, of course, for an extra 3

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weeks.
But people wouldn't want that.

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No, no.
People would be like up in arms

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at the idea that that they're
getting paid even more now.

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They're just getting paid to
have those holidays.

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Yeah.
Yeah, but but, but this is the

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thing that really doesn't go
through my head and and doesn't

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make any sense to me is when
people say, oh, well, you've got

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all that time off as if to say,
so you should be doing some

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work.
I'm like, do you, do you

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understand how paid holidays
work?

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Like every single person in the
country gets paid holiday and

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it's one of the pros of our job
that you get 13 weeks off.

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You can still argue and lots of
people do that we don't actually

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get paid for all of that holiday
and it's just simply spread

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across 12 months, etcetera.
That's a whole debate.

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You can have some people say we
do, some people say we don't.

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Kind of irrelevant because at
the end of the day, if you've

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got my teacher contract in front
of you, which has 195 days, 190

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with the children, five days for
INSET.

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If you want to add to that,
there is no situation in the

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world ever where you go to
someone's contract, add days of

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work and just say it's built in
that we've got to get paid more.

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That is the easiest way, I
think.

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It's so easy to look at it the
wrong way around.

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It's so easy to look at it as
removing extra holiday rather

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than just adding work days.
When you put it like that, I

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feel like it'd be hard for
anyone to argue.

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So no surprise.
And the BBC had a start and I

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thought it was really
interesting because it really

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compares parents and teachers,
right?

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That said, there was a poll
suggested 53% of parents would

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like a four week summer.
Fair enough, rising to 60% of

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families with special
educational needs as a whole.

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Separate point, sure, and the
same poll also suggested that a

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four week break is much less
popular of teachers, with only

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24% in favour.
Of the idea, but like, why are

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we shocked by that?
Yeah, I know.

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Why?
Oh, isn't it really strange that

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teachers don't want less time?
Of course we don't want less

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time off with human beings.
We know the narrative is don't

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you?
Yeah, of course.

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Lazy teachers need their long
holidays.

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Yeah, they can't possibly do
work like the rest of us.

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Hard working lot.
Yeah, yeah, completely.

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Do you know what?
Most teachers and people, again,

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don't like hearing this.
And it's just that, the

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justification that some people
have where they say if a teacher

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goes, well, I do all of my work
in term time.

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I'm working 10/11/12 hour days.
Okay, I'm putting in all my work

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then I'm doing lots of extra
work for free.

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Yeah.
So I justify my head all the

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holidays I take because I'm
actually still working.

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And if my contract says 190 a
195 days, I am working for free.

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Because if you want to increase
the amount of time I'm in work,

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you're going to have to pay me
more.

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And the issue comes when we
start to compare jobs.

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And I'm not being funny.
OK, Being a teacher pays more

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than being a shop assistant.
Yeah, but it doesn't pay as much

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as being a lawyer.
So we have to accept we cannot

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just look down, we can't look at
teaching and say, well people

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earn less money, work more and
get less.

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That's true.
Yeah.

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There's also people who earn
more money than a teacher who

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work less and more as well.
You can't just look at one job

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to justify your point of view.
Teaching is a well paid

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profession, which we're
qualified to do, and we spent

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10s of thousands of pounds
getting the qualifications to do

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it.
OK, That comes with the caveat

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that we're going to have to pay
well.

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And if you want to increase the
workload for a teacher in an

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environment where we all agree
that workload for teaching is

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incredibly high and it's a very
stressful job if you're sat

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outside of teaching going oh,
just don't get it.

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It's not fair.
You're right, you don't get it.

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And that should be the end.
You don't need to have an

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opinion on everything.
You don't understand how it

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works.
You don't understand how hard

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teachers are working.
And if you simply just look at a

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different job that's paid less
to justify paying teachers less

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or making them work more, you
are a bit misinformed and you

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should just not talk about it.
Because at the end of the day,

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if you reduce holidays in total
and don't increase the money

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that teachers get for the job,
it's a less appealing job.

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Recruitment will be harder, your
attention will be almost

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impossible.
People who are thinking should I

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leave it?
Should I not?

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Well that only pro that I was
actually clinging on to is gone

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now.
See you later.

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I agree.
And I and I don't think, in all

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honesty, I don't think that
reality would be.

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I think people like to cling on
to that version of reality

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because it gets people rolled up
the most.

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It gets teachers rolled up and
it gets people then rolled up at

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teachers who get rolled up.
So that's the one people like to

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to spout.
I don't actually think I think

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that's the bottom of the pile.
I think if, if the summer

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holidays were going to be
shortened, let's say they were

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shortened to four weeks, maybe 5
weeks, right?

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I think the more popular version
of this is that they just move

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the holiday around.
So the working days across the

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year are exactly the same.
But let's say in October, rather

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than one week off, you get 2
weeks off.

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And I think maybe a long time
ago in the podcast, we even like

227
00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,320
just jokingly said, oh, would
you prefer it in a different

228
00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:58,480
way?
So I'm going to kind of throw it

229
00:08:58,480 --> 00:08:59,840
back to you now.
It's in this conversation.

230
00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:02,440
What would be your reaction, I
guess to both?

231
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:07,080
Like firstly, would you do
option one as a teacher, would

232
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,680
you be happy where you'd maybe
get 2 weeks less holiday all

233
00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:12,400
together in a year?
But you do get, you do literally

234
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:13,920
get paid for two weeks more,
right?

235
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,200
So your salary goes up and
you're just not two weeks off

236
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:17,800
the summer.
Like what would be your reaction

237
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:19,040
to that one?
And also what would be your

238
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:20,840
reaction to the second one where
they just move it around?

239
00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,280
Would you be happy with either
basically?

240
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,000
Yes, I think, I think I'd sit
down and I'd, I just, I just

241
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,600
think about both.
If you increase my pay, I'd be

242
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,440
tempted to do it, but I, I don't
know.

243
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,200
I value the time off so much
because it is, I like in

244
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,560
teaching to like a roller
coaster.

245
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,080
When you jump on a roller
coaster, there's a chunk of it

246
00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,560
where you're going very slow,
slowly, and you know you're

247
00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:39,080
preparing for what's about to
come.

248
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:40,760
Yeah.
And then you have the whirlwind

249
00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,120
part, which is just over the
top.

250
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,400
You're putting your whole life
into it, which tends to happen.

251
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:45,360
Yeah.
And then you slow down again

252
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:46,400
and.
Then there's the marking bit at

253
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:47,320
the end.
When you get off, you have to

254
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,560
mark how the performance was on
the roller coaster for hours and

255
00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:51,040
hours and hours.
Then you have to plan the next

256
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:52,680
roller coaster trip for hours
and hours and hours, and that's

257
00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:54,680
when you're off the ride.
Yeah.

258
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,160
Get rid of all the paperwork.
It's like a separate day.

259
00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:00,320
But so I think the holidays are
really important.

260
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,760
I'd much more go towards the
second one if we were going to

261
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,080
do anything and I'd say OK, look
OK, shorten the summer holiday

262
00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,080
shore and then maybe get a
couple of weeks in October or a

263
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,520
couple of weeks in May and just
spread out that holiday.

264
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:14,120
But I don't think the answer is
increasing working days.

265
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,880
No, for two reasons.
Selfishly because of the teacher

266
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,400
and even if you are getting
paid, I think that there comes a

267
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,680
line where you say, but the time
off is a pro.

268
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,880
It is a good part of that job
and we take other parts of the

269
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:26,840
job that we might see as a
negative and it balances out

270
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:28,760
right.
But I also think because of the

271
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,640
kids, Yeah, definitely.
I think a six week summer

272
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,520
holiday, I've only got to think
back to my childhood and maybe I

273
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,600
was incredibly lucky, but I
loved the summer holidays.

274
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,960
I absolutely loved having
properly six weeks off to

275
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,640
properly switch off.
And I get the arguments that say

276
00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,000
children don't retain as much
over the six weeks.

277
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,000
They, they, they, it's too long
for them.

278
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,240
They forget things and then they
can't get back into the swing of

279
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,520
things at school.
And I just think, yeah, but

280
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,200
don't care because I just
enjoyed myself in that time when

281
00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,480
I was a kid, it was the best
time ever to properly switch

282
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:00,520
off.
And there's more to it.

283
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:02,920
I was reading the article from
the The Daily Telegraph.

284
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,560
It was what it went.
I think it did the rounds

285
00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:06,480
online.
Well, it was very click baity,

286
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:07,360
wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah, it was.

287
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:08,480
It was really.
I can't actually remember

288
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,520
exactly what it said.
Well, the title was the title

289
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,200
was essentially someone saying
we must end the school hell of

290
00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,360
summer holidays and get rid and
short in the summer because it's

291
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,040
just so it was very click.
Basic super click baity did the

292
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:21,720
rounds A lot of people read it.
I read for the article.

293
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,000
I thought the article was
actually hilariously quite fair.

294
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,960
Usually the case presented both
sides at the end of it.

295
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,040
It was kind of like a oh so I
don't know what's best what do

296
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,120
you think?
OK, whatever.

297
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,960
So very click baity title, but
some, some of it was that they

298
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,400
spoke to an educational
psychologist who like expert in

299
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,680
this field and they made it
very, very, very clear that that

300
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:41,200
unstructured time is like
essential when you're growing

301
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:42,280
up.
So essentially this summer, like

302
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,040
it was just school holidays in
general is like absolutely

303
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,560
essential for like child
development.

304
00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:47,600
Yeah.
And that to me, I was like,

305
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:48,960
cool, there's nothing.
Yeah, that's enough.

306
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,080
Then, you know, forget the whole
thing about teachers and pay and

307
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:52,640
stuff.
Like it's literally good for the

308
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,200
kids.
So that's let's just keep doing

309
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:55,680
it then, shall we?
Yeah.

310
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,760
And I think that comes back to
when we're having this

311
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,880
conversation.
It seems to be driven by one

312
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:06,280
thing, which is how childcare is
broken and I've got to work lots

313
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:07,840
to sustain myself in this
society.

314
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,560
And and it's and it's really bad
in terms of money and stuff.

315
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,320
And I really sympathise with
that.

316
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,400
I really do, because it is a
huge burden on a lot of families

317
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,080
to find childcare.
Yeah.

318
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,080
And it, but again, I do think
like with that click baity

319
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,280
title, it's a very nuanced
argument and it's both sides and

320
00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:24,320
it's a really good debate to
have.

321
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,040
And that article was very
balanced because I read through

322
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:27,840
it as well.
And I think if anything, it kind

323
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,480
of heard on the side of, you
know, but we should keep it

324
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:30,840
because it's better in general
for the kids.

325
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:31,720
Yeah.
Yeah.

326
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,440
But then anytime we see anything
it we live in that culture of

327
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,000
click bait, click bait, click
bait and and pitting people

328
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,080
against each other.
Even going back to that segment

329
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,560
on this morning where actually
James was on there talking about

330
00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:46,680
she's really, really, really
good, like as a commentator on

331
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:49,080
things and and she gets a lot of
praise and rightfully so because

332
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:50,280
she's very good at what she
does.

333
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,760
She gets a point across very
clearly and explains it to

334
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,760
people who don't necessarily
understand different things.

335
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,320
And she's a really good
spokesperson for so much.

336
00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:00,520
But on this, I just, I just
think just missed that

337
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:05,560
opportunity, I think to just go
down the line of therefore let's

338
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:08,840
look at the root problem of the
fact we need two people earning

339
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,800
a full time wage to sustain a
family right now.

340
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,040
And I think the problem has to
stem from that.

341
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,800
And if we're going to go down
the route again, it's like what

342
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,800
we said when we talked about the
birth rate crisis.

343
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,720
And she said, very rightfully,
people say if you, if you can't

344
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,920
afford kids, don't have them.
And her point was, yeah, people

345
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,000
are and it's bad.
Who's going to be a workforce in

346
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:27,880
the future?
That's the problem.

347
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,280
Who's going to pay taxes?
This is yeah, this is a problem.

348
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,640
It's happening, but.
Do you think that people, if we

349
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,360
go to a four week summer
holiday, we'll go, oh, have a

350
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,520
kid then?
Of course not because it's

351
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,320
rooted in the bigger problem,
which is with the workforce and

352
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,440
society in general.
And I just think, and we're

353
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,920
walking down that path of things
have got worse, so let's make

354
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:48,760
everything worse so that it's
manageable.

355
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,000
Yeah, put little stickers on
thing, little plasters and

356
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,760
things.
I, I do, you know what, I do

357
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,080
sympathise with the argument a
little bit, just a little bit.

358
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,720
Because you know what, if you
looked at the two solutions, 1

359
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,280
is like systemically fix the
whole country, which is like

360
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,080
catastrophically broken and
probably unfixable, which is not

361
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,800
going to happen, No, Or just put
this little plaster and it might

362
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,600
help a little bit.
I'm like, I can see, I can, I

363
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,760
genuinely can see why people are
doing that, which is why I'm,

364
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,360
I'm way more sympathetic now
than I was even a year ago to

365
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,960
the idea of at least talking
about changing around the school

366
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,320
holidays for this, just for the
sake of parents saving a bit

367
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:21,960
money.
It's so.

368
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,240
Hard, but do they save money?
I don't get this either.

369
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,480
It just shifts the childcare to
another point in the year.

370
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,280
Yeah, that's true.
If it's if it's just moving in

371
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:31,880
the holiday, yeah.
Which is why I feel like it

372
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,440
always goes back to what people
really want is they just want

373
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,720
teachers to have less holiday
because what they really want

374
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,360
is, is their kids to be at
school because.

375
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,400
In this situation, it's seen as
someone's taking the hit and at

376
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,040
the minute it's parents taking
the hit.

377
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,280
So actually people are saying,
well, let teachers take the hit,

378
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,160
Teachers take the, they've got
their 13 weeks off, teachers

379
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,760
should take the hit.
And I just think it's so

380
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,560
simplistic.
And even if you think that it's,

381
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,120
it's too much in the favour of
the teacher, you, you, even if

382
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,320
you completely disagree with
what teachers say about why it's

383
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,240
important and stuff, you have to
understand, you have to

384
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,480
understand that in this
environment we're in right now,

385
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,280
if you make the job of teaching
less desirable, which is what

386
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,040
this will do, you'll exacerbate
the problem of how many teachers

387
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,280
we actually have anyway.
So it's fine do that then.

388
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,200
But then in two, 3-4 years down
the line, when we're struggling

389
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,400
more than ever to get enough
people into teaching, don't be

390
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,480
shocked, don't be surprised when
we go down the route of

391
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,200
unqualified people in front of
your kids, because this is what

392
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,000
will happen.
We'll do these plasters, these

393
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,640
sticking.
Yes, to make that work.

394
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,360
Yeah, that's bad.
So just I'll scrap it.

395
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:32,520
Let teachers take it on the
chin.

396
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,880
You know what, do we even need
qualified teachers anymore?

397
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,800
That's cheaper, isn't it?
Let's just save money, save

398
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,720
money, save money 10 years down
the line.

399
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,800
Don't turn around and say it's
awful, isn't it?

400
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,880
We don't have any maths people
teaching our kids maths.

401
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,240
No, we don't.
And you know why?

402
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,360
Because we made the choice, the
easy choice 10 years ago and

403
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,040
look, it's biting us on the
backside right now Do.

404
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,400
You know what the slightly
easier choice in my head is, but

405
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,760
still a bit of a plaster, but it
just makes a bit more sense.

406
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,480
And here's my train of thinking,
just to be really clear, if you

407
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,960
do the whole teachers work more
in a year, you are going to have

408
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:01,720
to pay them more.
Yeah.

409
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,720
It just, it just, it just will
not have, it won't be a reality

410
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,280
that they do it.
And teachers just like, yeah,

411
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,600
OK, I'll just work two weeks
more a year for nothing.

412
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,040
They will obviously get paid
more.

413
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:11,560
It will cost the government a
lot of money.

414
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:12,840
There are a lot of teachers in
this country.

415
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,560
What they could do with that
money that they're about to

416
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,600
spend on loads of professional
teachers, they could just use

417
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,320
that to help fund people in in
like just help fund society when

418
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:23,720
it comes to childcare.
Yeah, but the point is they

419
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:24,960
don't have that money in the 1st
place.

420
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:26,760
The government aren't going to
do this.

421
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,360
Yeah, there's not a pot of money
sat there which they would pay

422
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,000
for teachers to do 2 extra weeks
a year.

423
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,680
The money doesn't exist.
That's the issue.

424
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,040
So there is no point where the
government are saying, yeah, and

425
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,520
we're going to pay them for this
extra two weeks.

426
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,560
That's not going to happen.
What's going to happen is

427
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,800
there's going to be people
posting articles online,

428
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,640
provocative articles, their
titles rather at the top going

429
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,120
to be people going on talk shows
and saying there's this and you

430
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,360
know, it's that and teach the
lazy and no, we're not back and

431
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:51,240
forth.
Nothing will happen.

432
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,440
Yeah, nothing will happen
because it can't.

433
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:54,880
There's no money for it to
happen.

434
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,280
So just suck it up and take it.
But I think even when I'm

435
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,040
talking about click baity stuff,
you can see the only, the only

436
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,480
role and the only reason this
comes up every single year.

437
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,720
Sure, there's a cost for
parents, sure it's a thing that

438
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,760
people have genuine opinions on.
But every single title or

439
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,480
headline or fact I see seems
geared up to make a point on one

440
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,599
side or the other.
But even down to the fact there

441
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:19,319
was that headline stat, which is
where this all came from, saying

442
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:22,400
childcare for the parents are
facing a bill for the summer

443
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:27,800
holiday childcare of 1050 lbs.
And that's obviously horrendous.

444
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,080
But when you hear that, you're
like, that is so much money that

445
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,080
people are being forced to spend
because the school holiday

446
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,800
system is 13 weeks and I only
get 5 weeks off in my job.

447
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,800
So I'm being forced to spend
that much money.

448
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,520
But just to make it really
clear, that headline figure is

449
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:49,040
the Max maximum anyone would
spend for six weeks of full time

450
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,120
care.
So that is sure, it's a lot, but

451
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:54,080
that's six weeks of full time
childcare.

452
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,240
And if your child is not got
anything like for free, no

453
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,400
family at all, you've taken no
time off work.

454
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,160
Yeah, that's how much you're
spent to help look after.

455
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,280
But it was it was presented as
if the average parent pays this

456
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,800
much every year.
No, it's no, it's not.

457
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,000
And and there are some people
who have to do full time care

458
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,680
for the six weeks, but most
people book a couple of weeks

459
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:12,320
off.
Yeah, definitely.

460
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,200
And if you've got children, you
tend to have things in place

461
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:17,480
where you can share a bit of
childcare.

462
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,560
It's not easy.
We've got our own kids now.

463
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,480
I understand it.
But that headline figure, I know

464
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,040
for a fact you read it.
Yep.

465
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,120
And you very intelligent person
who's in the education.

466
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:28,280
Well, very intelligent.
I can't.

467
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,680
I've always come here.
This this one.

468
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,800
Lasts for five seconds too far.
But very.

469
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,840
But you still don't understand
it because because you saw that

470
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,720
and you kind of said to me,
well, that's a lot, isn't it?

471
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,760
The average person's spending?
Yeah, Yeah, they're not.

472
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,320
Because in it's the classic
thing.

473
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:42,480
It's the same thing to me,
right?

474
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,520
In journalism in general, like
when like a click baited title,

475
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,880
it's the same to me as when
journalists, very clever people

476
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,600
purposefully when in the middle
of a conversation about how much

477
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,560
it's costing parents and how
they're struggling to afford

478
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,440
things in the summer holidays
when they drop in a stat about

479
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,520
that, that's that's just like
idealistic, that's like, Oh

480
00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:58,760
yeah.
And just casually, this is the

481
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,360
maximum that maybe some people
could spend in ensemble.

482
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,520
When they when they do that, I'm
kind of expecting them to tell

483
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,640
me hard facts of like this is
what this is what parents are

484
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:06,520
really struggling with right
now.

485
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,800
The average person is struggling
with this, so I hate it when

486
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,920
they drop in facts 'cause I just
assume they're talking about the

487
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,000
thing I think they're talking
about.

488
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,120
Sure, and they're just.
They're just using the worst

489
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,360
version to make it and.
If you are more intelligent, you

490
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:17,880
don't.
Understand exactly, I just need

491
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,840
someone to explain to me which
is why I need you all the time.

492
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:22,480
But at once.
I'll tell you what, one thing in

493
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,960
the in the Telegraph article
going back to that one that just

494
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,600
made me laugh is I've just had
to write this statement down

495
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,720
with a big capital letters lol
right next to it.

496
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,080
Grandparents save up to 96
billion a year in childcare

497
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:36,200
costs.
Oh my goodness.

498
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,680
So just going back to the idea,
you didn't really mention it in

499
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,280
your list then, but that's
another huge thing.

500
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,080
And I know not everybody has
that family network around them.

501
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,440
I know that's true.
But a lot of people also do,

502
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,160
which is another thing to say
against the whole it's costing

503
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,080
everybody 1000 lbs for the six
year.

504
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:51,360
It's not.
It's not though is.

505
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,160
It no, but but you know, that
that is an issue again, in terms

506
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,560
of, you know, it takes a village
to raise a child.

507
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,560
We all know that, but some
people don't have that village.

508
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,080
Course, you know, and, and
especially quite often times, if

509
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,280
you're thinking about places
like inner city London,

510
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,080
professionals move there for
their jobs.

511
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,720
They have a family because the
birth rate is plummeting in

512
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,640
London.
So even those who do they're

513
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,440
they're away from grandparents.
Yeah, they don't have, and

514
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,360
they've got to pay it.
Was their choice to move there,

515
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:13,920
wasn't it?
Yeah.

516
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,680
I know it's just like, OK, do
you want jobs to?

517
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,480
Yeah.
But in the same breath that

518
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,840
you're saying we need to all
work hard, hard, harder than

519
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,200
ever because we're and if
anyone, if a teacher ever

520
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,840
mentions how hard they work,
there's always someone out

521
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,720
there.
And try doing six days a week,

522
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,240
16 hours.
No, no, I don't want to.

523
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,480
Yeah, I don't want to do that at
all.

524
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,800
Try working on every single day
of the week for 18 hours.

525
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,080
No, yeah, couldn't think of
anything worse mate.

526
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,400
And if that's what you think
makes you a good person in

527
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,000
society, yeah, then then crack
on.

528
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,720
Maybe.
I absolutely have no desire to

529
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,920
work 70 hour weeks.
So don't pretend, don't, don't

530
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,800
come to me like it's a badge of
honour, like you're showing off

531
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,000
to me.
Yeah, and now you're

532
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,040
invalidated.
Yeah, I.

533
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,000
Think you're odd?
I work 78 hours a week.

534
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:55,440
That's strange.
That's that's terrible.

535
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,640
You're right.
Can I help break?

536
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,000
Yeah.
Like, jeez, I I really, I really

537
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,600
do hate the attitude of, of just
shunning people, shunning

538
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,680
people's choices as if, like,
everything about life, I feel

539
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,560
like in our culture, maybe it's
around the world, I don't know.

540
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,360
But everything just feels like
the answer is, oh, well, you

541
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:14,880
made that choice, so no help for
you.

542
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,280
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Even when, like, choices are a

543
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:18,400
bit more complex than that,
aren't they?

544
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:19,960
Really.
I hate how simplified it gets.

545
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,240
Well, it's your choice to have
kids.

546
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,240
It's like, yeah.
Do you want a pension?

547
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:23,840
Yeah.
If you want to go there.

548
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,280
Is it?
OK, Let's talk about all the

549
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,720
pros and cons then.
Who's paying tax?

550
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,680
In 30 years.
It's just not as simple as that

551
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,360
was your choice.
So is it either black or white

552
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,560
now you don't get this thing.
No, we need to incentivize

553
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:33,480
people having children.
Yeah.

554
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,840
So do you know what we could do?
We we could people that have to

555
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,040
go to London and work.
Maybe we could maybe there's a

556
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,440
government pot of money we can
help to fund these people just a

557
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,720
little bit.
Just just the people that don't

558
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,560
have the network around them and
they've got to work six weeks

559
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,240
through summer.
Maybe we can help those people

560
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:46,080
to bring this cost down.
A.

561
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:47,600
Little yeah, and just in Yeah, I
completely agree.

562
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,080
And just in general, the problem
we have is every single thing

563
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,280
that costs money.
The question is who's paying for

564
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,400
that?
Am I paying for that?

565
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,040
Yeah, probably.
If you want an 80 hours a week,

566
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,520
probably yeah, work a bit less,
she said.

567
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,400
Just chill out for a minute
mate.

568
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,800
You probably are paying for it.
You pay for so many things in

569
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,360
society for society to function.
And this is, and it's funny

570
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:04,640
enough, having human beings is
one of them.

571
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,680
So.
Let's maybe just do something to

572
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,440
help out.
So on this like discussion that

573
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,400
I'm having right here, because
we, we basically spent the last

574
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,080
five minutes something we
completely agree with.

575
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,040
And I do feel, I do feel
sometimes like I stray from my

576
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,760
natural instincts on this
because my natural instincts,

577
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,800
instincts are always to help
people as much as possible.

578
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,200
And in some holidays, you know,
if there are people who do just

579
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,920
need that support because they
have got to work, OK, they have

580
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,320
got to go to work full time,
them and their partner and their

581
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,600
children do need somewhere to
go.

582
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,520
The government needs to step up
a little bit.

583
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,040
There's some stuff in place for
the poorest in our society and

584
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,320
that's good.
I know there's lots of, there's

585
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,040
clubs where they go and get a
free meal as well.

586
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,000
They spend the day doing some
sport or something.

587
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,240
They get their food and it's a
bit of like free childcare for

588
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,440
them.
And I think that's fantastic.

589
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,800
Do you think we're going too far
down the route of, oh, well, are

590
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,520
we turning into those people we
just literally spent 5 minutes

591
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,400
mocking when we say, yeah, tough
teachers get 13.

592
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,440
Do you want, do you want, do you
want teachers to quit?

593
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,760
Tough take, suck it up, have
yourself all day six weeks,

594
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,120
tough, tough, tough, tough.
You got your kids, look off.

595
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,800
After him are we are we too far
that so I hope not.

596
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,160
I hope not, but are we like we
can hope not all we want, but we

597
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,960
are basically saying tough.
I don't think I'm saying tough.

598
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,040
I don't think I'm saying tough.
What what do you know what I'm I

599
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,400
am saying there's not one way of
looking at this.

600
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,320
That's what I'm trying to say.
I I hope that's come across in

601
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,920
this in this episode.
I'm I don't think the solution

602
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,680
is to everything to just shorten
some holidays.

603
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,560
I don't think the solution is
just paying teachers more.

604
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,280
That might not work.
I don't think the solution is

605
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,120
funding everyone to have six
weeks off and the government

606
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:31,440
have to find that money.
I don't know what the solution

607
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,000
is, but I know it's not just the
one thing.

608
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,920
I know it's not like you said.
I I know it's not ignoring

609
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,960
systemic problems in society,
just completely ignoring it as

610
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,960
if they're not the issue, which
we all know they are.

611
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,880
Sure, right.
You know the whole 1950s thing.

612
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:45,920
Yeah.
It's like, yeah, let's compare

613
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,040
it to 1950 then.
Yeah.

614
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,440
Why is it different then?
Right.

615
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:49,680
What has?
Changed the school system,

616
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,680
didn't Yeah, the.
So if it's intrinsically the

617
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,440
school system that's the
problem, it would have always

618
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,040
been a.
Problem exactly that is it has

619
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,680
literally not changed six or six
weeks.

620
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,480
Summer holiday has been around
forever.

621
00:23:58,520 --> 00:23:59,280
Donkeys years.
Yeah.

622
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,440
Like, So what's the problem
then?

623
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,160
It's deeper than this, isn't it?
It's not that.

624
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,240
So all I want to do is challenge
the idea that maybe there's

625
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,240
other ways of looking at it.
Even with the money thing, you

626
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,040
mean?
That's what I mean.

627
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,280
I'm not trying to say parents
don't have to pay that much.

628
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,960
I'm just challenging the idea
that all parents are paying 1000

629
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,520
lbs six weeks, because they're
not.

630
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,160
That's the maximum.
And it is terrible.

631
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,800
Do you know what?
It's all relative anyway.

632
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,640
Some parents are having to pay
£300 and that is £300 too much.

633
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,600
That's £300 more than they have
and they have to work from

634
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,240
multiple weeks in the summer.
Some people have grandparents

635
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,360
looking after the kids or family
looking after the kids, but they

636
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:30,560
still want to do nice things
with them.

637
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,240
So it costs money.
Yeah, yeah.

638
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,640
So do you think then that I'm
just thinking back to what

639
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,600
you're saying about like
grandparents looking after the

640
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,600
kids and stuff?
Is it just tough whether you've

641
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,640
got that or not in your opinion,
like, because you can't have a

642
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,440
government thing that's like you
got your grandparents looking

643
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,080
after your kids?
No.

644
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,240
Well, we'll give you some money
and then some do, some don't.

645
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,480
Like is it?
Is it just simply basically what

646
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,960
I'm saying is, is, is there a
point where you have to just

647
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,880
say, yeah, well, it does just
cost money to have kids?

648
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,000
I don't want to say yes because
because I feel like I'm then

649
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,960
saying, well I'm picking.
Up basically on the point you

650
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,160
just said there about like and
it's not fair that you have to

651
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,840
pay for childcare sometimes.
It's not fair that you're not,

652
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,320
it's not all year round and
stuff like that, is it?

653
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,800
Is it not fair?
Is that not just OK?

654
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,400
Well, it's, I mean, it's part of
having a kid, isn't it?

655
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,320
Yeah, it is part of obviously.
It's like saying I couldn't turn

656
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,320
around and say, oh, it's not
fair that I have to pay extra

657
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,760
money now to feed my child.
Like you kind of everyone knows.

658
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,760
Everyone knows that, kids.
Eat.

659
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:25,880
Oh, I know.
Like we do.

660
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,120
My food belt Rory every two
times eat.

661
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,640
We all know that Rory eats eats.
Okay, my son has his breakfast

662
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,800
and then honestly two minutes
later eat.

663
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,520
We have just done that for 50.
You have had two wheat bits in

664
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,320
the banana and we have just sat
eating it for 15.

665
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,600
Eat.
Not now, mate.

666
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,800
For now, Brav.
I love him.

667
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:46,320
I love.
Him.

668
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,000
Do you know when you say
something ironically?

669
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,600
Yeah, Brav has come into my
thing.

670
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,280
Now I say Brav ironically, and
now I say to him, oh, come on,

671
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:53,280
Brav.
I'm like, I can't say that too

672
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:53,760
much.
Yeah.

673
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,120
What are you doing there?
What are you doing?

674
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:56,000
I've never heard you say.
Brav.

675
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,080
I've never said brav in my life.
Oh my day.

676
00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,520
Listen to me talk for three
minutes.

677
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:00,680
You know, that's not a guy who
said Brav.

678
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,400
Yeah.
Yeah, just started saying it as

679
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:02,880
well.
You just.

680
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:03,960
Mimic the people around you,
don't you?

681
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,200
Yes, I do Brav.
Yeah.

682
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:05,880
All right, bro.
Yeah.

683
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,840
But sorry, as you going back to
it, I just think I'm trying, I'm

684
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,320
trying to pitch this in the
right way, right.

685
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,760
Yeah, I just want to have the
discussion.

686
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,560
You want your cake and eat.
It but there are sure there are

687
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,320
more perspectives yeah to be to
be seen like like someone do you

688
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,800
know what no one's no one's said
these articles or whatever I'm

689
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,280
not I've seen is oh, go to
Finland then where they have

690
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,720
like 12 weeks some holidays and
then come back and it'll feel

691
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,360
great like maybe just a bit of
perspective.

692
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:26,920
I don't know.
But let's go through this right

693
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,320
now.
So in the article I mentioned

694
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,720
other countries, yeah, that have
a far longer holiday than that.

695
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,480
So we're looking at six weeks.
Like I'm at the end of my

696
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,600
tether.
I can't put, I can't do six

697
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,200
weeks because number one, I've
got a work and number 26 weeks

698
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,720
with a kid.
Just just saying.

699
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,960
By the way, try six weeks in a
row with 32 of them trying to

700
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,400
teach them how to read.
It's tricky, isn't it?

701
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,800
So other countries, France get 8
weeks in a summer break, Finland

702
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,200
10 to 11 weeks in their summer,
Italy 12 to 13 weeks, Sweden 10

703
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,200
weeks, a lot.
So in Europe, I think us in

704
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,640
Germany, maybe another country
where it's six weeks and that is

705
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,080
the minimum and near the ever of
a country.

706
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,120
Looked to me when I looked at
the chart, the average was like

707
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,240
9 to 10 weeks.
Actually you're getting for the

708
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,200
summer break.
So we're not abnormally long and

709
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,800
it's like how we coping.
We are.

710
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,600
We are honestly in the worst
situation for the length of time

711
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,080
children get for summer and we
are still somehow having a

712
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,520
debate whether it's too long.
Yeah, yeah, I know even there

713
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,240
are, you know, even the
countries in the East, but

714
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,560
really academically competitive
countries like China on things

715
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,120
of China, right, In Japan, even
though they only go really that

716
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:30,800
down to sort of like 5 weeks, I
think.

717
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,880
I think the lowest I saw when I
was looking out was 4 weeks

718
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,040
maybe in China.
I remember so Japan five to six

719
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,360
weeks, 4 weeks being the.
Shortest in certain areas but

720
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,120
realistic like 6 weeks is on.
The is on the lower end of the

721
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:42,400
summer days a lot of places.
There's loads more to it, but we

722
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,400
can't just say it.
So therefore, no, we should be

723
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:45,480
fine.
Do you know what if a lot of

724
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,440
those places is like, they're
just dominated by it's the

725
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,400
weather, Like, yeah, so hot in
certain, like we just can't do,

726
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,320
we can't do school in certain
months.

727
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,440
And they'll be more condensed in
different areas of the year.

728
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,600
Yeah, sure.
But again, I looked at 'cause I

729
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,080
thought to myself, OK, this is
interesting because of the

730
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,640
weather.
Is it simply like what we're

731
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,240
debating?
Do we move it around?

732
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,640
Should we move the holidays
around?

733
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:08,120
And again England and Germany
very similar around 190 a 195

734
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:10,480
days roughly around that of
school for the children.

735
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,680
And I thought, OK, I wonder if
Spain has the same but because

736
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,560
it's so hot they have all their
holidays just.

737
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,520
Got like a 12 week term.
And it's not true.

738
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,360
Their children are on average
about 20 days less.

739
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:23,680
All right, so, so they spend
much less time in school.

740
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,480
France was about 2025 days.
So what I'm saying is people in

741
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,480
France, people in Spain aren't
not working.

742
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,280
People in France and Spain,
their children are not getting a

743
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,840
good education.
I think I'm with you and I'm on

744
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,920
completely on the same page.
I'm playing devil's advocate a

745
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,160
little bit before of it's just
not as simplistic as well.

746
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,680
This thing is bad completely
changed the system for school.

747
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,960
It doesn't have to be that way.
And I think most of the comments

748
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,440
I've seen on reels like what we
talked about this morning on

749
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,560
things that have been posted, it
is it boils down to this school

750
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,080
is primarily about teaching your
children an education.

751
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,320
And the big push back was saying
school is not childcare.

752
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,000
Now look, I'll be perfectly
honest.

753
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,520
My personal opinion on this is
that a big part of school is

754
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,360
childcare.
And I'm, it's not a very popular

755
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,560
thing to say, but you know what?
We don't do 120 episodes in this

756
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:20,920
podcast.
I've always said what I think

757
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,240
and often most people agree.
And I think on this, most people

758
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,720
don't agree.
And I'd love to hear what people

759
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,840
have to say about this.
But to me, we just have to look

760
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,560
at the realistic side of this is
that obviously a role school

761
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,880
plays is in childcare because
our society needs to function.

762
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,760
Our adults need to go to work so
that we can have things in our

763
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,080
society.
How are you going to go to work

764
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,680
to fix the road if your child
isn't looked after?

765
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,440
There has to be some form of
that as well.

766
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,600
The primary role of schools is
education.

767
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,520
Of course it is.
But part of school is childcare.

768
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,960
And that's why this is a debate
that we should be having because

769
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,000
at the end of the day, five
weeks paid holiday and 13 weeks

770
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,840
off for your children, it
doesn't add up.

771
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,840
And I understand that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

772
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,840
But I just don't think it means
that's the end of the

773
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,080
discussion.
You can't just say, well,

774
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,400
school's education end, OK, but
there are poor families out

775
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,680
there who don't have a network
and it's either they earn less

776
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,360
because the parents takes unpaid
time off and they already don't

777
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,480
have enough, or they have to go
and pay for childcare somewhere.

778
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,720
And I think it's those middlely
families who don't necessarily

779
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,600
qualify for all of the help, who
are on dual income, who are just

780
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,600
about getting through paying
their mortgage, which has just

781
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,920
gone up hundreds of pounds,
paying their food bill, which

782
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,800
has gone up hundreds of pounds
over the last few years.

783
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,640
We can't just say tough it's not
childcare because it kind of is.

784
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,560
And we and we, we have to have a
deep conversation about this.

785
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,800
And I think people on both sides
dismissing it.

786
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,560
I don't think it's useful.
And I'm I'm just hoping we can

787
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,360
come to some kind of middle
ground where it's like, OK,

788
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,480
look, we can't just pay children
to be looked after all year

789
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:51,960
round.
That's not going to happen.

790
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,680
But we can't also just say
South, other countries are don't

791
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,080
have more than that and they're
fine.

792
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,080
OK, cool.
It's not my fault that the the

793
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,680
culture has changed, that now
both have parents have to work

794
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,080
full time just to barely afford
the bills.

795
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,840
And it's just not my fault that
you only get like 3 weeks, 4

796
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,480
weeks paid holiday.
It's not my fault that there

797
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,640
happens to be thirteen weeks
school holiday doesn't align

798
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,680
with it.
It's like, yeah, OK, like you

799
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,440
said, we can talk about it
though, can't we?

800
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,120
Because other countries
obviously have different systems

801
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,680
and different cultures and
different ways of valuing parts

802
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,040
of society and parenting, and in
general we can probably talk

803
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,880
about it a bit more.
And I just think the number one

804
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,280
thing I hope people get out of
having these discussions is that

805
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,800
it is not as simple as just
picking 1 route and going down

806
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,360
it.
Yeah, like that person who picks

807
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,320
1 route and says, yeah, tough.
It's as it is.

808
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,640
It's we're not childcare
educators, but that's not

809
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:38,880
helpful.
It's also not helpful for

810
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,000
someone to turn around and say,
well, teachers get 30 weeks off

811
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,240
a year, just work more.
Not not going to happen either.

812
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,720
It's it's just not as simple as
pick a side and just forget

813
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:47,880
about it.
That's an easy solution.

814
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,520
There is no easy solution.
This is something which is going

815
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,720
to continue to be every single
year coming up in media

816
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,920
discourse.
And I find the dismissive nature

817
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,760
of both sides a little bit
disconcerting because I just

818
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,600
think, OK, cool, we're not going
to get anywhere then because

819
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,600
we're just fighting each other.
And it's just another string to

820
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,560
the bow of many things falling
apart seemingly in society,

821
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,440
where we just accept, OK, cool,
things are getting worse.

822
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,040
Well, not everyone gets a pay
rise above inflation, so why

823
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,920
should you?
OK, cool, we all get poorer.

824
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,000
OK, cool, that's your solution.
Nice one.

825
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,480
Cool, let's just crack on then.
And in 20 years, we'll see where

826
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,240
we're at, where we're not having
enough kids because you just

827
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,000
said it's not childcare.
OK, cool.

828
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,480
OK.
Or, or or we just do pay the

829
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,160
teachers now We don't have we
don't have money for something

830
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:29,440
else in society.
Yeah, I like it.

831
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,280
Let's not have discussions.
Let's just watch everything

832
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,680
collapse.
Yeah, that's probably the best

833
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,360
way to do it.
There was actually one final

834
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,440
point, one final thing, because
there's this one I left to the

835
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,720
end because I wasn't too sure
how I felt about it.

836
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,000
So I wanted to put it to you as
well, right.

837
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,160
So that educational psychologist
that I talked about from the

838
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,400
Telegraph article put a few
things around.

839
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,960
And that kind of counter
argument to the whole, oh, it's

840
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,640
costing us so much money to put
our kids in all of these summer

841
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:55,320
clubs across the year was that
we are becoming obsessed as a

842
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,640
society with our kids have to be
like super stimulated all the

843
00:32:58,640 --> 00:32:59,760
time.
And we're, and we're picking

844
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,520
quite expensive clubs because we
look at that stat of £1000.

845
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,240
They've been sort of maximum.
The, the argument here really in

846
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,720
a nutshell was, yeah, you could
just maybe do the cheaper ones

847
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,320
where they're a bit more bored
or, or just like as cheap as

848
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:11,520
possible.
And it's like, yeah, they're not

849
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,680
getting to do archery, but
they're just, you know, that

850
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,200
they're, they're in that room.
There's, there's they can do

851
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,840
some origami or something.
They're just, it's the cheaper

852
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,880
childcare options and they were
sort of saying we don't have to

853
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,680
be obsessed with our the idea
that our kids can't be bored

854
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,280
ever.
And I wonder what your what your

855
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,920
thoughts on that kind of line of
thinking were?

856
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,760
I think it's, it's a next step
in a discussion because at the

857
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,080
end of the day, you can be bored
with your kids, but you start to

858
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,560
take paid unpaid time off work.
Yeah, you can be bored with your

859
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:36,920
kids, but you start to put
colour there and stuff.

860
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,760
So it doesn't solve the problem
at all.

861
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,120
But if we're thinking about, OK,
cool, well, we're actually

862
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,840
probably not going to solve this
problem.

863
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,880
So we are in this situation
where maybe you've taken unpaid

864
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,960
leave, whatever it is, you've
taken the hit and that's

865
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,400
probably going to be what
happens because there's no

866
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:51,800
solution that doesn't cost
money, no.

867
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:52,960
So we're going to go for that
one.

868
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,800
OK, cool.
I absolutely agree with that.

869
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,960
In terms of, again, I'm two
prongs here as a kid myself and

870
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:03,480
as a parent myself.
Now, as a child myself, I

871
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,960
remember my summer holidays
where I spent the day on the

872
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,840
trampoline.
Yep, I remember my summer

873
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,000
holidays with my siblings.
But we'd be in the garden from

874
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,080
when the sun got up to the sun
got down.

875
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,639
We'd make silly obstacle
courses.

876
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:17,760
We'd say, wait, you gotta go
far.

877
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,719
I'm gonna time you gonna do
parkour, gonna jump against the

878
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,159
wall up there and I'm gonna kick
the ball against it.

879
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:22,840
And if you don't get the ball
against it, that's a 5 second

880
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,719
penalty.
And it have this imagination and

881
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,679
you'd make stuff up and you'd
sit on the trampoline and you,

882
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,760
yeah, you'd put on shows and
you'd make games.

883
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,600
Cost absolutely nothing.
My mum's sure she had to be

884
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:32,560
there.
She'd take time off.

885
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:33,760
The cost doesn't.
I get that.

886
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,520
There is a cost there, but it
doesn't have to be a double

887
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:37,760
cost.
It doesn't have to be a double

888
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,679
here.
And then if I think of myself

889
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:44,400
now as a parent with my son, I
see first hand how I could very

890
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,199
easily in a week spend three
£400 doing stuff with him.

891
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,520
I, I absolutely could.
And I can see as he gets older

892
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,480
and it's more, more kind of over
the top things like, oh, let's

893
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:53,880
take your archery, etcetera,
anything like that.

894
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,120
I can see how it would rack up.
Even currently he's not even 2

895
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,320
and we took him the other day to
a local park.

896
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,400
There's loads going on.
Like it's a big park where

897
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,760
there's a paddling pool and
there's a sand pit.

898
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,840
It costs like £30 for us to go
in.

899
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,520
That's just one day.
And that's if we say there all

900
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,400
day, which we wouldn't because
he'll lose interest.

901
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,920
And I can see how it adds up.
And what all I'm saying is I

902
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,840
think we have to, we have to
normalise not making every

903
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,560
single day a wow day that costs
£50 for a family to do.

904
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,640
Normalise a week where you're
doing something at home, you're

905
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,320
doing something that's low cost.
And I've seen a loads of stuff

906
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,960
online, loads of reels that are
more and more and more

907
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,160
normalising it.
And to me, they're the best bits

908
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,920
of content because what they're
doing is they're not picking a

909
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,920
side.
They're not saying, yeah, it's

910
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,000
the school system's fault.
It's a load of rubbish and

911
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,560
they're not picking the other
side.

912
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,240
Yeah, well, school's tough.
Tough.

913
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:44,640
You just got to part with it for
your kid.

914
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,720
You chose to have kids.
What they're doing is this is a

915
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:48,960
reality we're living in.
What can we do to make the most

916
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,160
of it right now?
And that I, I think that point

917
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,320
is what people should take out
of this normalised boredom.

918
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,240
Oh, my kids bored?
Good, because I've seen so much

919
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,960
research and so much people
talking about how from boredom

920
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,800
comes the best imagination.
Yeah, definitely.

921
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,480
You can't have that unless you
get to the point of boredom.

922
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,680
What is stimulation if you have
nothing to compare it against?

923
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,560
Being bored is good.
I wouldn't be smashing you at

924
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,680
table tennis every day if I
wasn't bored as a kid.

925
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,240
Just constantly whacking around.
That was my little game.

926
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,240
You're outside doing some
parkour up a wall.

927
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,080
I'm inside with the table tennis
table, the tables in his back.

928
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,320
Bang it against the wall.
See how many times I can do it.

929
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,640
And sometimes I spin the racket
in my hand before I catch it.

930
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,400
A little bat.
And what's funny is you've

931
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,000
maintained all your table tennis
skill.

932
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,200
Yeah, no parkour skill left.
No, not to ever.

933
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,080
I've not seen one against I've.
Ever seen you do parkour in the

934
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,240
end my friend?
My knee, my bending heart.

935
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:38,600
That's where you got it from,
isn't it?

936
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:39,440
We all parkour.
Clubs.

937
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:40,600
Yeah.
All those videos that I watched.

938
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:41,680
Parkour.
Brav.

939
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,240
Brav.
Yeah, brav.

940
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,240
If I say brav enough, it means I
can run up a wall.

941
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:46,840
Brilliant.
That's fantastic.

942
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,880
Oh, man.
But yeah, like it's a, it's a

943
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,640
good discussion to have.
I'm glad we had it.

944
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,960
I don't, we're not sitting here
like, oh, I know the solution.

945
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,400
You know, I don't know the
solution.

946
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,960
I just know there's a huge
systemic problem that's probably

947
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,040
realistically underpinning the
whole lot.

948
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,000
And there are lots of different
sticks we can put on them.

949
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,560
One of them maybe is reducing
school holidays, One of them

950
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,000
maybe is moving school holidays
around.

951
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,440
One of them maybe is just
providing better care for better

952
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,000
support for parents that are
really struggling to afford the

953
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,080
cost of childcare.
One of them one of the options

954
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,600
is maybe looking for cheaper,
cheaper options of childcare and

955
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,160
letting your kids be a little
bit more bored.

956
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,160
There's so many different
avenues you can look down.

957
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,040
Some of them feel a bit
condescending and patronising.

958
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,320
You might be.
Obviously I've thought about

959
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,480
that already, but it's just a
discussion.

960
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,240
We're just talking about them.
So to kind of wrap this up and

961
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:32,000
and think about it then from
your personal point of view, OK,

962
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,880
so you can split this if you
want into two kind of versions

963
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,040
of what you think and then as a
professional, whatever you want

964
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,080
to do with this, throwing it
back to you.

965
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:44,960
Then next year, if you you had
control over what decision was

966
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,440
made in terms of the holidays,
what exact route would you go

967
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,240
down?
I think I'm going to surprise

968
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:54,880
you here a little bit.
I think the easiest one to help

969
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,920
and I'm thinking about parents
here mostly to help spread the

970
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,480
cost is move the holidays around
a bit.

971
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,200
I keep the same number, same
number, but moving around.

972
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:07,320
I would I would be open to the
idea of going to A5 or A4 summer

973
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,920
holiday, four weeks on holiday.
And for some holidays, yeah, for

974
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,400
24 weeks, damn it, off the year.
For summer holidays, one in the

975
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,040
summer, one in the winter.
We call that the summer.

976
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,200
Holiday, holiday, you go, I'll
go.

977
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,640
I'm going on my winter.
Summer, winter.

978
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,800
Summer holiday.
Yeah, oh man.

979
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,520
But I'd, but I'd be open to the
idea because I think it's, it's

980
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,440
not about me.
I think if that if, if parents

981
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,520
are saying, you know what, that
would just really help me spread

982
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,320
the cost a bit rather than
having six weeks in a row where

983
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,200
I've got to find this money.
That makes more sense.

984
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,240
I'd be like, OK, that's fine.
I think we should have a

985
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,440
discussion because I don't think
we can just pretend that that

986
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,160
won't affect children because it
will.

987
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,720
Like we, you know, child
psychologists are not out there

988
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:45,920
screaming, saying like trying to
protect this time for nothing.

989
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,360
They we know that that time is
really good for children to have

990
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,720
away from the formal education.
I'd be interested to see, like,

991
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,440
how much of A difference 4 to 6
makes.

992
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:56,440
Like, I reckon you could
probably get most of the

993
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,120
benefits in four or five weeks
potentially.

994
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,520
Yeah.
And you kind of reached that

995
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,320
point where?
And maybe adding some benefits,

996
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,920
you know what, between those two
rancid 7 week terms where you

997
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,280
have one week off, yeah, maybe
it's more beneficial for kids to

998
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,360
actually have two weeks off.
That's such a good point because

999
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,560
if you think about it, the six
weeks on holiday where they're

1000
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,080
off most, most of the time,
times 1 and 2 are huge.

1001
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,920
And I've been multiple years
where you have a seven week

1002
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,800
term, 11 week off and an 8 week
term 2.

1003
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,000
So you go from six weeks off to
15 weeks with a week in the

1004
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,120
middle and that week in the
middle is never enough to fully

1005
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,480
switch off.
So I guess that is like full on

1006
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:33,000
like nothing compared to the
most intense roller coaster ride

1007
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,040
you can think of.
I tend to agree with you in

1008
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,600
terms of I'd be open to the
conversation that maintains

1009
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,760
working conditions and holiday.
And if you ever wanted to say

1010
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,520
we're going to take something
holiday away, it would only even

1011
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,120
be something I would
contemplate.

1012
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,120
If people said, oh, and
obviously your rate would go up

1013
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,640
as a percentage because you're
working more now, you're working

1014
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,960
5% more, whatever it might be,
you're working this percentage

1015
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,280
more, therefore your rate's
going to go up by this

1016
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,560
percentage more.
And even then I think about it,

1017
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,440
I wouldn't necessarily do it.
I wouldn't necessarily think,

1018
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:07,680
oh, that's a good trade off
there.

1019
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,760
I think, OK, maybe, yeah,
potentially we'll talk about it,

1020
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,680
but moving it.
I'd be very much open to and

1021
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,880
because not only thinking, oh,
isn't it bad that I'd miss my

1022
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,640
six weeks off because I enjoy my
six weeks off.

1023
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,280
Don't get me wrong.
Of course, everything most

1024
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,360
teachers do, they like that.
Some teachers don't.

1025
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,640
So they'd be like, Oh yeah,
cool.

1026
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,080
Because like you said, it bumps
up your one week half term to

1027
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,520
A2.
And I think going from a one

1028
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,440
week half term to a two week
half term increases positivity.

1029
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,520
It's a, it's a net gain, which
is bigger than the net loss of

1030
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,040
going from six weeks to five
weeks.

1031
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,960
So I wouldn't you know that that
that loss of going six weeks to

1032
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,080
five weeks, I would take on the
chin because it'd be so much

1033
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,560
better when it comes to October
or so much better when it comes

1034
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,000
to May.
And you get those two weeks to

1035
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,720
fully recharge and reset and the
kids get less time to forget

1036
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:56,560
things.
But hopefully my number one goal

1037
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,920
is the kids in the summer still
get that time to switch off and

1038
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,360
enjoy themselves because it is
just vital.

1039
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,280
It is just so good for kids kids
to have that time, not in that

1040
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,240
formal education setting I.
Couldn't agree more.

1041
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:09,880
I couldn't agree more, Dylan.
And you know what?

1042
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,920
I'd really like to know what is
what these guys think.

1043
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,640
Yeah.
I just wish there was a way that

1044
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,760
they could contact us and let us
know their thoughts on this

1045
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,040
discussion.
Yeah, there's a couple of things

1046
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,760
here because they can contact
us, they can contact Instagram

1047
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,520
at TTTP Podcast, they can go to
our TikTok at TTPTP Podcast, or

1048
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,320
they could e-mail us at
ttptppod@gmail.com.

1049
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,640
But you know what's really
interesting?

1050
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,240
Yeah.
No matter which side of this

1051
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:30,280
argument they're on or wherever
they fall, if they agree or they

1052
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,720
disagree, do you know what they
could do?

1053
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:33,360
They could rate the quality.
That's what I.

1054
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,920
Was thinking for yeah of that.
Discussion.

1055
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,200
Yeah, the discussion,
discussion.

1056
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:37,880
And they could do that even as a
five star review.

1057
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,040
Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?
Says rate it, but there is only

1058
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,240
one option.
Yeah, yeah, it looks like this.

1059
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:43,920
Five options.
Yeah, but there's none of the

1060
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:44,960
other ones.
Yeah.

1061
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:45,720
Very.
Don't try it.

1062
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:46,560
Don't try it.
No, no.

1063
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,280
No, no, no, try that click five
trust press rate help us out

1064
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,400
yeah.
And I hope that this

1065
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,200
conversation, it just gets
things going.

1066
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,400
Me too, OK.
And I hope it's fair.

1067
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,800
I hope they've been really fair
here because I don't want to

1068
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,200
come across.
I really don't want to come

1069
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,640
across like I'm saying no.
I totally agree it's a triangle.

1070
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:05,640
As long as it strikes that
balance between teachers,

1071
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,840
working conditions, what is
beneficial for children and

1072
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,840
parents, and and the cost of the
expense of having children find

1073
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,600
the middle ground, I'm up for
that conversation.

1074
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,160
Or if you're a government, just
knock the triangle down.

1075
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,040
No one gets anything perfect.
How about that?