Ep 123: Has Creativity Died In The Classroom? Boring Schemes, Micro-Management & Arts Funding Cuts!

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of T St

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name's

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Hayden.
And this week, we're going to be

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diving into the question, has
creativity died in the

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classroom?
Why is creativity even important

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in the first place?
And how so many schools are self

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inflicting rigid schemes that
are stifling creativity in the

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classroom.
So we're thinking about

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creativity and if it's died in
the classroom, I think there are

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two prongs we have to talk
about.

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One prong is obviously going to
be within the classroom, what

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the teacher is actually doing to
deliver the lessons and how

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creative it can be for the
children and also the kind of

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decisions schools are making on
how the lessons are delivered.

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I think that's really important
and we'll come on to that later.

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But I think we have to talk
about the pressure from external

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forces, IE the government
funding, even Ofsted for

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example, or the curriculum,
etcetera, from the top down,

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putting that pressure on.
And we see this in the

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statistics.
And I want to just start off by

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reading some statistics to you,
because when we're talking about

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creativity, we're thinking more
secondary school as well about

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subjects, right?
Yeah, yeah.

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And we're thinking about the
importance that's placed on

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English and maths.
And I think it's absolutely

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right that they are placed on a
pedestal.

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I think it's more important that
children can read and understand

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numbers.
I think anyone disagrees with

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that.
But the issue comes when that

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transfers to.
Oh, so everything else is

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pointless?
No Listen to these statistics

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and see if your draw was on the
floor as quickly as mine was.

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OK, so since the launch in 2010
of the E back performance

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measure, which excludes art
subjects.

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So again, that's a big hint as
to where this there has been an

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overall decline of 42% in arts
GCSE entries and a 21% drop in

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such entries at A level.
But here's the kicker, here's

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the one that really, really got
me.

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More than 40% of schools no
longer enter any pupils 0 for

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GCSE music or drama.
That's a lot of schools.

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More than 40% of schools don't
enter any children for music,

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GCSE or drama.
That makes me feel kind of sad,

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yeah.
It is sad.

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It was such a huge part of my of
growing up.

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Yeah, so, so, so why does it
make you feel sad?

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Why?
Why is this important?

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How does it link with
creativity?

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Why are these subjects vital?
Because creativity is a high

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order skill that we need.
It is essential.

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It's not just like some fluffy
thing that we say, oh, being

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creative, yeah.
Or can you put some pictures on

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your it?
That's not what creativity is.

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It's a really important skill.
It boosts confidence.

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It's good for emotional
intelligence.

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And these subjects, I'm, I'm
sure this sounds really obvious,

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but these subjects are rooted in
being creative far more than the

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academic subjects.
Yeah, I'm not I'm not saying you

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don't get any creativity in
English and maths, but obviously

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in drama and art and music, I'm
fundamentally being considerably

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more creative, right.
So if these subjects aren't

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being explored, like 40% of
schools like have zero kids

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doing some of these subjects,
that's mad to me.

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They're not being exposed to
enough opportunities to be

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creative.
They're not developing this

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skill, which is important.
Absolutely.

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And if we look at what skills
we're developing in general,

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right when we put these other
subjects on a pedestal, and

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again, I'm not going to sit here
and be the person to say that

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it's just as important every
single child in the country can

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read and write as it is that
every single child in the

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country can play the piano.
OK, OK, OK, we understand that's

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just not true.
But we have to put these

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subjects where they belong,
which is of high importance as

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well.
And people just brushing it off

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and saying, yeah, well, we who
cares about if you can play an

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instrument or if you could do
drama?

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You're just really, you really
are misunderstanding what the

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subjects can bring to the table.
And like you said, how important

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creativity is.
It is completely insane that we

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just disregard them.
And this is happening from

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external sources.
So when schools are judged on

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how well they are doing in a
performance table, that doesn't

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take into account how well
children are doing in that

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really important part of their
development.

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Of course schools are going to
end up seeing this kind of thing

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happen where children aren't
doing it at all.

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And it look, I've just got to
think back to when I was in

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school.
I did GCSE drama.

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I think if I had to pick a
single course that I did in my

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time and education that
transformed me as a person for

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the better, it was my GCSE drama
course, Yeah, because it

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instilled so much more
confidence in me.

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It brought me out of my shell.
It helped me interact with

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people a lot more because you
were in a group working on a

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performance that you were doing.
It just, I think completely

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transformed my personality in a
really positive way.

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And there'll be some people now
saying it was a shame because it

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means you do this podcast now
you're more confident.

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Isn't that I don't want to
listen to you talk on.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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But.
But realistically, if I don't

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think about what I went on to do
in my career, which was

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teaching, it had a huge impact.
Yeah.

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And it and it really helped
myself confidence.

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And here's where it's the real
kicker for those types of people

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who kind of say, oh, no, it's
just, it's just the arts.

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Who cares about that?
Do you know what it did?

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It made me a more functioning
member of society.

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Yeah.
It made me more able to go and

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be confident in my job.
It may be less of a recluse.

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It may be more social.
It made me be able to contribute

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to the whole way more because I
grew in that confidence.

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I grew in that ability to work
with people.

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I have to 2nd that and you know
what else it made me do?

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Genuinely, it made me go to
school.

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I loved the arts, like genuinely
my passions at school were

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maths, which is separate.
I did just love maths but

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realistically I came to school
because I liked drama, music and

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art.
They were my absolute favourites

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and honestly that is what got me
up.

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I wanted to go to school because
I loved those subjects.

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And funnily enough, just to add
to kind of what you were saying,

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it did really help me to develop
my creativity in English as

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well.
Because you know what the best

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grade I ever got in English was
when we did a unit on writing a

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play script.
It was like, that was the best

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thing.
That was the most praise I ever

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got in English.
And it was the highest score I

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ever got from my creative
writing.

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And I was like, Oh yeah, it's
because I, I, I was being

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creative in this subject.
So it does exist in the other

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subjects.
But I really would not have had

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the chance to develop those
skills if I didn't come into

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school loving drama, art, music.
It's a crux for so many

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children, isn't it?
It gets them in.

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And we talk about the absence
crisis all the time.

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The absence crisis is insanely
complicated.

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There's loads of reasons why
we're in this moment now where

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there aren't as many children in
school as they used to be.

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But one part of that surely has
to be if we're seeing statistics

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like this, where those subjects
which are a huge part of other

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people's lives are simply not
even being offered anymore or

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aren't even a part of the
curriculum or are not something

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that the school place any value
on because it's not how they're

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judged.
At the end of the day, of course

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there's going to be a select
group of children who think,

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well, what's the point of me
being there?

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You're not catering to me at
all.

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By I'm, you know, we've spoken
to people before who had

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dyslexia, who, you know, for
their whole school life, even

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when they took these creative
subjects were constantly judged

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on a bar.
That's the more traditionally

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academic of what?
Can you write an essay about

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your music, please?
Yeah.

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Well, doesn't Does it not matter
that I'm really good at playing

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these instruments and I can
compose unbelievable music?

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Oh, but it comes to an essay and
I I physically can't do that

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because I have literal dyslexia
and I can't reach these levels.

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Oh, so now you don't pass music?
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.

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I think it's madness Even think
about the coursework when I was

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at school, whenever there was an
element of coursework, right

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with art that didn't involve me
literally just sitting down and

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drawing something or doing some
piece of art that I really

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enjoyed.
I just didn't do it and it

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knocked my grades down.
And I was always like, but look

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at my drawings, look at my
paintings.

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I appreciate most of the
coursework was revolved around

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that.
But when it was like, oh, now

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you've got to write a 500 word
piece that evaluates what how an

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artist inspired you of this.
But I was like, I just, I just

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really wanted to do the art at
that time.

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And yeah, it's the idea that
that's been amplified even more

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just puts me off.
And one other thing that just it

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makes me even more sad and maybe
it's getting a bit depressing

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here, so I apologise, is that in
in areas of high deprivation,

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this is amplified even further.
And I think there's a, there's a

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few factors to this.
One of the most obvious ones

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that pops your mind is in areas
of high deprivation, they're

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working harder to try and bring
up the, the academic scores, the

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things that are tracked based on
this, you know, the statue you

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talked about from 2010.
So it makes sense that in those

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areas that they're having even
less access to the arts.

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Yeah.
Which is just, yeah.

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And do you know what the worst
thing about that is?

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Is again, you, you get this
subset of, of society who will

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argue and say it's pointless.
You know, there's people who

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say, well, art's pointless.
What's why am I funding out of

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my taxpayer money, etcetera.
I think we've already

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established how it can be really
important for children to do,

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not only to get them into
school, to have the other

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academic subjects as well, but
as a thing on its own.

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Let's not degrade it.
It's not, I'm not using art as a

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gateway to getting English and
maths.

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John, Art has its own right of
being its own really important

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subject for a bunch of children
in our society and drama and

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music, etcetera.
But when it comes to state

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schools and funding being
squeezed so much that these

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aren't actually tracked and
therefore can be kicked to one

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side.
What we are essentially saying

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if we are OK with that, is that
arts are for rich people.

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Arts are for the children who
can afford to go to classes

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outside of school and do it.
Arts are for private schools who

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have the money to be able to
fund this.

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Because when you think about
what music is, it's way more

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expensive to run a music course
than it is an English course

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because you've got the
instruments to buy drama

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courses.
You may think, well, you're not

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writing as much.
So it's not academically as as

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viable as this other thing.
Because how can I see that

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you're just doing your drama act
on the stage?

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Well, yeah, you've got lights to
pay for.

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You've got so much that goes
into it.

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And because it's not on paper,
we might see it as less valuable

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because of how it we it's so
much harder to track.

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Who cares?
And if the end goal of this is

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to get the academic subjects
higher up on a pedestal because

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they're more important, don't
equate that with me saying

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they're not important when I say
drama is.

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It's not the same thing.
And yeah, the, the, it's so sad

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to me that it is more and more
and more moving towards.

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Yeah, the arts are for people
who go to private school or rich

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people who can afford to do it
themselves.

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We have to ring fence and defend
it because society is not just

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about can you write an essay?
That's not how it works.

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And this is what winds me up so
much about when you get to

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secondary school.
We work in primary school and

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it's different because we need
to get children to read.

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You have to be able to read.
So it's really, really important

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when we're in secondary school
and you're doing your English

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GCSE.
And I remember doing Of Mice and

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Men, and I was sat there, and
I'm not saying this is a bad

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thing before anyone jumps down
my throat, but I remember

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breaking down the themes of
Steinbeck or looking at a

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Shakespeare play and think, oh,
what did Shakespeare mean when

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Macbeth did this thing?
What's it representing?

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All valid ways of learning.
OK cool, but don't sit there and

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pretend to me that as a
functioning member of society

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when I leave school it's way
more important that I can

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discuss the different themes
throughout different books in

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history that are complete
fiction compared to can I work

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in a group to create something
that's meaningful for me or has

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an impact on other people
through music or through drama.

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You they are equatable.
Yeah, absolutely.

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I'll tell you what, let's talk.
Let's go deeper at this.

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Let's talk about importance a
bit more.

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The the government or everything
we've looked at is suggesting

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that academic achievement,
maths, English is more

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important.
That's kind of what we're

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inferring from this than the
creative subjects, hence the

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drop off.
Well, very quickly, maths and

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English, I think they're,
they're even weighted more so

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even though arts aren't taken
into account at all.

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You might take into account some
history or some geography,

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etcetera.
But then again, there's another

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level of maths, and English are
even more weighted and more

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important.
Yeah, and I agree what you said

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earlier about the pedestal
thing, right?

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Obviously many kids to read,
right.

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But if we think about what a lot
of these subjects maybe let's

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think about history then let's
go, let's go off tangent a bit

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from maths and English, right?
What does it really involve,

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right?
Is it, is it about retrieving

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facts in history?
Is history all about learning

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facts and retrieving those facts
and then regurgitating those

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facts?
And are we saying that that

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therefore, because we track it
is more important than the

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creative arts?
Is that kind of where we're

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going with this?
So I did Full disclosure, I did

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history GCSE, I did history A
level, I've got a degree in

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history.
I love history.

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So I'm again, I think it's, I
think it's brilliant.

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I think it's amazing.
A huge part of my GCC revision

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and my A level revision was
memorising facts and dates and

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things that happened.
That was a huge part of what I

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did.
But the part that I loved, the

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part that inspired me, the part
that got me gripped by the

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stories of our time and how it
might repeat itself, was my

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teacher making the narrative of
history interesting?

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Was my teacher discussing about
how political cartoons in

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newspapers have a bias and bring
in comedy and help show a

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different point of view?
The thing that got me really

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hooked was actually being able
to, as a historian, think

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historically and be able to
judge whether sources were more

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viable than others when
discussing and debating what

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happened.
Different points of view from

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different members of society.
Looking at it from the point of

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view of someone in World War Two
who lived in a terraced house

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where they were bombed in the
next Rd along.

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And then looking at it from the
point of view of someone in the

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cabinet who was making decisions
on whether or not we should be

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invading different countries or
not.

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All of this coming together and
then looking at newspaper

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articles who were funded by this
person and what their view or

294
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,840
their agenda might have been
compared to maybe a government

295
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,520
document where they were trying
to make sure the people were not

296
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worried too much about something
or hiding something.

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00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,120
Compared to on the street
filming a man talk about his his

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experience.
The thing that got me about

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history was almost this creative
part of putting these things

300
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,640
together.
Yeah, understanding the outside

301
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:24,360
view of everything at once, that
piqued my interest way more than

302
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,560
remembering, oh, the battle of
the Boyne was on this time.

303
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,800
OK, cool.
I can find out in 10 seconds.

304
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,720
I can just Google that now that
that knowledge, that fact, that

305
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,800
understanding of this exact
date, although not a bad thing

306
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,920
to know, isn't going to actually
hold me back as I enter society,

307
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,680
as I become a historian.
What makes a good historian is

308
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:48,080
someone who can interpret things
is someone who can be given new

309
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,760
information or told, well, this
happened back then.

310
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,240
What do you think?
Well, let me interpret the

311
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:53,880
sources.
Let me take everything in.

312
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:55,800
Cool.
I'm going to learn as I go these

313
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,960
retrieval facts, but the act of
actually understanding what's

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00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,240
going on is way, way, way more
valuable.

315
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,680
And just to be really clear what
you're saying, the skill of

316
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:10,360
being creative is about
evaluating, refining ideas,

317
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,920
generating new ideas.
Everything you were saying

318
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,160
though, I'm glad you said it
because I was thinking this is

319
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,480
all in the realms of being
creative, not in the realms of

320
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,760
retrieving stuff yet.
But when we do an exam, it's all

321
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,720
about retrieving information
from your mind and putting it

322
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,000
down.
And I feel like what you're kind

323
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,320
of saying here is what I was
trying to allude to, which is

324
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,360
that there is an argument to say
that being creative could even

325
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,960
be a more important skill than
being able to retrieve facts.

326
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,080
Because do you know what the
irony is?

327
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,520
Like you were saying, there is,
we live in a world where it's

328
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,640
the easiest ever to retrieve
facts.

329
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:38,800
Do you know what?
I don't even need to.

330
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,040
I would just open up AI, Google,
whatever it is, and I'll just

331
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,560
find that fact instantaneously.
What I can't do is tap into

332
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,840
something like that that just
allows me to be creative.

333
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,280
Doesn't really make sense, the
skill you need to develop.

334
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,520
So just to finish off this
conversation, I think it's a

335
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,960
real shame that we're seeing
such a, it's not even a small

336
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,600
decline, such a significant
decline in the creative arts in

337
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,800
schools where children have the
opportunity to develop this

338
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,720
skill of creativity.
It's it's a shame.

339
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,080
Let's dive deeper into
creativity in general, lesson to

340
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,760
lesson as a teacher because I
think there's these external

341
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,000
factors we're talking about
here.

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00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,400
But I do think a lot of teachers
and a lot of schools are kind of

343
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,680
self imposing and move to a lot
more draconian.

344
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,720
Do this in your lesson or else
it's not going to be a good one.

345
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,400
Let's talk about that.
OK, Dylan, I feel like we've

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00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,120
established the first prong
pretty pretty well.

347
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,160
The whole idea that the creative
arts and the actual subjects

348
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,040
themselves are being stifled
across schools right now.

349
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,440
Let's talk about prong #2.
You've had to draw on the floor

350
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:35,480
once.
Let's get you drawn the floor

351
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:36,840
again.
Because I think we need to talk

352
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,920
about the fact that teachers
write into us and they talk

353
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,440
online all the time about how
their creativity as a

354
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,360
practitioner, as the person in a
classroom, that level of

355
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,160
creativity is being stifled as
well with the idea that they

356
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,160
must follow schemes a certain
way or they must follow their

357
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,880
school rules of we deliver.
Lessons at this exact structure,

358
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,800
we must do these things that are
being micromanaged to the point

359
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,360
where they feel like they can't
actually be creative in their

360
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,000
role as a teacher.
Yeah, completely.

361
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,400
And before I talk about this
writing, I think the issue with

362
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,120
that is not only OK, it's kind
of annoying as a professional

363
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,920
because my job is I want to be
creative and do things in

364
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,840
engaging ways.
The problem with that is

365
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,040
actually what it has that is not
going to affect the children in

366
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,240
your class because when it's so
formulaic, it becomes boring,

367
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,360
becomes uninspiring and it's
become way less creative for the

368
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,960
children themselves as well.
We had this writing, OK, this is

369
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,400
from a while ago, I've been
sitting on this, but this to me

370
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,840
summarised the problem that so
many teachers have in school

371
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,760
right now about creativity being
completely dead in the

372
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,200
classroom.
Hit me, here we go.

373
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,400
Was listening today and thought
it would be interesting to have

374
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,880
you guys take on prescriptive
lesson formats.

375
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,880
I'm in a small secondary Academy
and for every PowerPoint lesson,

376
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,880
for every subject, we need
number one silent retrieval

377
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,320
practise slide.
Same layout for everyone #2

378
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,200
wait, but why slide where we
tell them what they've done

379
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,640
already, what's in the lesson
today, and what they're learning

380
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,720
about after.
Next one clearly outlining where

381
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,760
they can get praise points for
that lesson before the lessons

382
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,839
even begun.
What specific activities,

383
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:18,359
etcetera, where they can get
points, specific logos for

384
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,839
different tasks in the corner of
each slide, IE examology.

385
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,960
I do we do you do a hinge
question slide.

386
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:30,600
Still unsure on the purpose or
what that even is a bronze,

387
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,760
silver, gold, platinum task
slide.

388
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,520
So that classic differentiation
of his four ways of doing this

389
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:36,880
task.
Guys, you pick it because it's

390
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,760
taken.
Me back. 4 to finish slide at

391
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,840
the end basically tells them to
stand behind the chair, be

392
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,120
quiet, tuck your shirt in, and
something else just as

393
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,320
irrelevant.
I know some academies are way

394
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,440
worse, but by the time they get
through all the box ticking

395
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,200
slides for each lesson, you've
got no actual time left to

396
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,880
deliver the.
Content.

397
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,320
So I love the ending statement
there.

398
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,120
Once I've done all of this tick
boxing and prescriptive stuff, I

399
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,400
haven't got any time left to do
my job, which is being a

400
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,760
teacher.
Yeah, it's insane.

401
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,200
And and I think that is the
ultimate version of

402
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,840
micromanagement to the NTH
degree.

403
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,480
Is there a place for any of
that, do you think?

404
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,600
What what is that completely
insane or is there a place for

405
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,840
some of it?
Or should none of it exit?

406
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,400
What's your thought?
Because her point was she's been

407
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,160
teaching for 10 years.
And she, she's her point is,

408
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,360
look, the kids were fine before
I I snipped in this corner slide

409
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,200
to say that this is the part of
the lesson we're on, I think.

410
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,120
All of it probably comes from a
good place, probably, right.

411
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,160
I think all of the, if you
really broke down why all of

412
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:37,840
those things exist, there's
probably some really good

413
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,840
pedagogy behind that of like how
how we can help children learn

414
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,200
by reminding of of what they're
learning and things that really

415
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,680
the whole point is as a
professional teacher, like

416
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,800
that's your job.
You're doing them naturally

417
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,040
because you're a professional
teacher.

418
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,560
I find it a bit patronising.
And the reason I find it

419
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,520
patronising is because that is
my job.

420
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,200
My job is to do those things
seamlessly in my lesson anyway.

421
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,280
That's why I went to university,
to train to be a teacher.

422
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,560
That screams at me.
All of our staff are unqualified

423
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,400
teachers and they don't need to
do anything because we are so

424
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:09,920
prescriptive.
You don't even need to go to

425
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,800
university because we'll just
tell you exactly what to do.

426
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,560
I that's why I find it
patronising and I don't like it.

427
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,080
The thing that really winds me
up about these kind of stories

428
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,360
is when you hear this right, So
this school's probably got a

429
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:21,240
scheme as well.
And this person was talking

430
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,360
about how it takes so long to go
through what you already have as

431
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:26,920
a lesson to make it fit these
because every, I think it needs

432
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,600
to look like this.
Now, the thing that winds me up

433
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,200
more than anything is this turns
teachers into people who

434
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,160
genuinely stand at the front of
the lesson and just read out

435
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,360
slides and read out information
that you've already got.

436
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,080
You've bought into a scheme or
you've planned something the

437
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:43,480
exact same as everyone else.
And when you get people online

438
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,320
who say teachers, they're
overpaid, they get loads of time

439
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:47,400
off.
All they do is stand at the

440
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,480
front of the lesson and just
deliver what's on the slides.

441
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,720
They're just reading.
I'm like losing my ability to

442
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,000
say you're wrong because there
are schools like this where that

443
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,920
is what's happening.
And is it any wonder when

444
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,640
schools are justifying having
unqualified people deliver

445
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,160
lessons, people who aren't
qualified in their subject go

446
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,480
into a classroom.
Of course this is happening

447
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,080
because it doesn't matter
anymore what your credentials

448
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,600
are as a teacher.
It doesn't matter how creative

449
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:12,720
you are.
It doesn't matter how good you

450
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,920
are at your job and doing all of
the things that are in this list

451
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,440
anyway because it's literally a
part of what you do.

452
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,920
There's no way that I would
teach a lesson.

453
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,840
Without making links back to
stuff I've already done.

454
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,440
I'm a human being and that's my
job.

455
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,840
Of course, I'm going to say,
remember we did this last week.

456
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,960
We're using that skill again now
to do this.

457
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,240
Yeah, I don't need to be told to
put it in the corner of my slide

458
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,360
that what I'm doing with the
children now is retrieval

459
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,040
practise.
I I know it's rich, but it

460
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:38,880
doesn't make them better at.
Rich, I know the kids need to

461
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,880
know, they need to know a meta
level at all times of exactly

462
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,480
what they're learning.
They also need to know exactly

463
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:44,760
how they can earn behaviour
points.

464
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,480
Yeah, well done.
Everyone clapped 3 times.

465
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,640
It really goes down that, that
line to me.

466
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,680
I, I just, I just don't like it.
And if we're linking it to the

467
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,600
point of this episode, which is
all about creativity, and we're

468
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,960
thinking now about creativity as
teachers, right?

469
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,680
Yeah.
The problem I have with this is

470
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,960
we're going down this route of
teachers are deliverers and not

471
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,520
designers.
And the word design, like by

472
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,600
definition, which is what we
are, is rooted in being

473
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:08,880
creative.
Absolutely.

474
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,720
I completely agree.
So what's what's your thought on

475
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,560
this line?
Because I have a lot of

476
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,120
opinions.
We must have fidelity to the

477
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:18,840
scheme.
So what do we even mean by that

478
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,120
and what's your opinion on it?
I think I'll answer all your

479
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,040
questions in once.
I think firstly that it kind of

480
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,840
comes from an Ofsted or top down
approach, right?

481
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,640
And for this whole idea of
fidelity to a scheme means if as

482
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,640
a school you have sat down and
justified buying into this

483
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,680
scheme, you should be able to
show that it's having an impact

484
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:36,800
because you're using it
properly.

485
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,160
You must be able to justify why
you purchased it in the first

486
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,600
place.
And if you purchased it, it must

487
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,000
be because you think it's great.
So therefore you're using it

488
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,440
thoroughly.
That's to me, the idea of this

489
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,080
fidelity is that you're using it
completely and properly.

490
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,640
And I think it goes just an
exclusively to exclusively.

491
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,200
Yeah, you're only using this,
right.

492
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,200
I think that's where that the
word fidelity comes in.

493
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,440
And I, and I've heard that
buzzword loads in the last few

494
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,360
years, but I don't, I just don't
think it's right.

495
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,960
I don't think that you have to
use a I'm doing quotation marks

496
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:06,960
here.
You have to use a scheme with

497
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,640
fidelity to be good, to be a
good teacher.

498
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,640
I don't think that you have to
use a scheme with fidelity to be

499
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,560
able to deliver lessons to a
certain standard.

500
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,840
Like, I don't think you, I think
you can pick and choose parts of

501
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,400
schemes and still be really good
at teaching lessons, you know?

502
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,480
There are some parts of schemes
that are more important to

503
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,120
follow as a whole school than
others.

504
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,920
Like I always think of White
Rose.

505
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,760
I've used White Rose for a long
time and we've LED maths and

506
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,680
said we follow White Rose and
we've probably fallen into that

507
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,800
trap before saying we use it
with fidelity.

508
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,600
We go to White Rose first, it's
what we do.

509
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,040
But one thing we've never done
is say you can't possibly

510
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,240
supplement it with anything
else.

511
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,520
And the ultimate example of why
if you're in a school where

512
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,960
you're using something like
White Rose and you're told you

513
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,080
cannot use anything else, the
ultimate reason you can give as

514
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,240
to why you are is because White
Rose themselves literally

515
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,880
deliver training on adaptive
teaching and how to change your

516
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:01,640
teaching to suit the children in
front of you.

517
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,360
Where they say out loud, you
should not be just printing off

518
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:08,760
our worksheets and putting them
in front of every single child.

519
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,880
Because it's condescending to
say to a group of professional

520
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,800
teachers like this person who
wrote in been teaching 10 years.

521
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,880
We've been teaching 10 years
between us as well.

522
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,040
When you come into a teacher
who's been doing it for that

523
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,880
long or even a newer teacher
who's done all of the training

524
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,000
to then say you have to follow
this, you are basically saying

525
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,760
don't be adaptive anymore.
Completely get rid of that

526
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,160
teacher standard, which I know
I've put loads of importance on

527
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,840
teacher standard 8 because I
need someone to come to the

528
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,920
cross country at the weekend.
But the other teachers standard

529
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,760
about being adaptive and
changing on the spot and doing

530
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,800
what the children need and
planning to their needs.

531
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,920
Ignore that, because we're
fidelity to this scheme.

532
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,480
Maybe.
And you know what?

533
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,160
There'll be people again that
say, yeah, we should be doing

534
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,040
that.
And again, it's the same people

535
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,160
that also don't think that kids
should be learning art.

536
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,480
A secondary school, this idea of
yeah, yeah, we'll just be

537
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,400
robotic.
And I just want to go back to

538
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,440
the why, the why.
Why are we so passionate about

539
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,200
this?
Why do we feel like teachers

540
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,960
need to have the freedom to be
creative?

541
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:05,240
For me, it's because creativity,
if we think about what school

542
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,840
is, right, being creative as a
teacher and the kids being

543
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,680
creative is what inspires
curiosity.

544
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,560
And what is the point of primary
school if not to inspire kids to

545
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,280
be curious about the world and
about specific things like, I

546
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,800
don't know, subjects that we've
made.

547
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,960
We've put labels on certain
things in the world.

548
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,440
What is the point of school if
it's not to do that?

549
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,240
Completely.
And I think we're, we're kind of

550
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,520
crossing over now a bit, aren't
we, in terms of, we've talked

551
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,720
about the creative subjects, so
the arts, but now we're very

552
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,280
much speaking about from, from
experience of as a teacher, I, I

553
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,480
feel like it's my job to inspire
children to want to learn.

554
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,080
OK, That, that is part of my
job.

555
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,600
And people might boil it down
to, oh, my job's to deliver the

556
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,200
curriculum.
I'm going to stand here and read

557
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,200
you the curriculum.
If that was my job I wouldn't

558
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,720
need to go to university, all I
need to be able to do is read

559
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,400
because I'll just read the
curriculum out of the children.

560
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,240
A massive chunk of my
professional capability is at

561
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,320
being adaptive, being creative
and getting the most out of the

562
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:03,880
children in front of me, no
matter who they are.

563
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,800
That's probably I think the most
important part of my job is

564
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,800
adapting to the needs of the
children in front of me.

565
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,640
And I've always said this when
I'm thinking about maths for

566
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,000
example, I will go off piste, I
will make something up because I

567
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,680
know the end goals.
I know the start of my children

568
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,560
and I know what makes them tick
and I know what's going to

569
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,200
interest them.
And it's been far, far too often

570
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,400
in my career that I've sat
there, got a history lesson, and

571
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,840
I've thought this is crazy in
terms of we're being expected to

572
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,400
follow a scheme.
This scheme says to do this in

573
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,960
this lesson, it says we must go
through seven different tick

574
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,680
boxes of there has to be a
retrieval question at the start,

575
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,440
there has to be something at the
end which revisits everything

576
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,440
they've done previously.
There has to be a quiz about

577
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,240
knowledge that they've done from
lessons beforehand.

578
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:48,080
There has to be a worksheet
where they matched.

579
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,560
A bit like that right in from
that person who's saying that

580
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,800
the creative process of teaching
has been completely killed in

581
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,880
her classroom because she's
being told or he is being told.

582
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,200
You got to do this section, then
this section, then this section,

583
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,640
then this section.
If you think back to your math

584
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,080
lesson, we just said I've done
it as well, loads of time,

585
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,320
completely off script.
I say very loosely, I needed to

586
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,120
do that and it was the right
thing for the kids.

587
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,760
It got them more engaged.
I got that.

588
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,200
I got to the outcome in a better
way.

589
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,040
But if I was told I have to
stick with fidelity to the

590
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,480
scheme and what our school has
decided whether they put in

591
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,280
extra measures like that, you
know, the person that's written

592
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:21,920
in it would have been a worse
lesson.

593
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,840
That is why I'm so against that
sort of stuff.

594
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,120
You know, I, I do think it
probably comes from a good place

595
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:29,200
and, and SLT and school leaders
are probably just trying to like

596
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,800
guarantee that certain
pedagogies are being engage and

597
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,320
used in the classroom, but I
just think it backfires.

598
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,520
It also, you know, a part of it,
again, like I'm saying, parts of

599
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,880
a scheme are more important in
terms if you buy a scheme in

600
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,120
mostly, and I'm not saying every
scheme, but mostly it's, it's

601
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:45,680
going to give you good coverage
of the curriculum.

602
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,040
It's going to ensure that you
are covering that curriculum.

603
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,880
Whereas if you've got bitty
lessons from the past, you know

604
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,360
what it's like walking to a
school sometimes.

605
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,520
Oh, we do the Maya topic, for
example, and it's bits of

606
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,400
lessons from the past five, 6-7
years.

607
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,240
And, and in one lesson, we make
a mask.

608
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,640
That is creativity, right?
But I think there's a discussion

609
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,600
to have as to whether just
simply making a mask for the

610
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,560
sake of making a mask might not
be the best lesson we can give

611
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,520
our kids.
But, you know, we can do, we can

612
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,600
do a hybrid.
Yeah.

613
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,640
We're allowed to do things that
are enjoyable for the children.

614
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,600
We don't have to only do them,
but if we completely swing the

615
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,760
pendulum the other way and go,
we're going to follow this

616
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,440
scheme.
And I'm going to if I'm, if I'm

617
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,880
in a history lesson.
And because you know, as a

618
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,200
primary school teacher, quite
often you share planning and a

619
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,200
lot of your afternoon planning
is, is historical.

620
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,000
It's been there for a while.
Maybe you have a big change when

621
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,920
a new scheme comes in and you
share out your planning.

622
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,920
So a lot of the time you're
picking up lessons other people

623
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,200
have done as well.
When it's app absolutely bang on

624
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,960
what the scheme says, that makes
sense from a management point of

625
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,480
view because you're going to get
consistency.

626
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,760
So I understand that.
But when you when you actually

627
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,320
pick up a lesson and deliver it
to your kids, if you're halfway

628
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,320
through your afternoon and
you're thinking, I've never been

629
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,000
more bored than I am right now
and these kids look bored and

630
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,720
it's completely uninspiring.
It's a bad lesson.

631
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,840
And it doesn't matter how much
it follows the curriculum.

632
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,080
It doesn't matter how much it
follows the aims of what you're

633
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,960
trying to do.
It doesn't matter how much it's

634
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,840
like the room down the corridor.
That's irrelevant.

635
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,400
It doesn't make it a good lesson
if the kids are completely

636
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,840
uninspired and can't be bothered
to do their learning because

637
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,160
they're bored.
You're doing you're teaching a

638
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,920
bad lesson.
And then your next staff meeting

639
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,040
is all about the absence crisis
in your school and how we're

640
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,760
going to start introducing
attendance awards to, to, to

641
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:20,920
better that.
And you're sat there thinking,

642
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,480
do you know what might help is
not delivering really boring

643
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,920
lessons all the time.
That's that's where I find it so

644
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,120
hard.
My ultimate thing, I think I

645
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:31,880
said it recently on the podcast
was you have to just be able to

646
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,840
as a teacher, as a professional,
choose to change something or do

647
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,040
something differently.
And I think again, the message

648
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,040
to leadership is trust your
staff to do that because

649
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,040
otherwise we are going down the
road of Joe blogs off the street

650
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,400
could come in and be a teacher
because we're just delivering a

651
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,600
lesson that's pre done.
And that person becomes correct

652
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,400
on TikTok.
Who says teachers are just

653
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,440
overpaid for reading slides?
It seems like that might be

654
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,360
what's happening in some.
Places we're pushing that bad.

655
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,360
Do you do you think if you were
a school leader then just be

656
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:58,920
really super clear because I
hate that I did anyone

657
00:28:58,920 --> 00:28:59,880
misconstrue what we're saying
here?

658
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,200
Do you think they shouldn't buy
in schemes?

659
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,280
Not at all.
What I'm saying here is schemes

660
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,080
can be really helpful, but like
with everything that we've ever

661
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,000
said, you have to have some
nuance with it.

662
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,160
When you come in and say we've
bought a scheme, by the way,

663
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,160
guys from the ground up replan
everything, usually.

664
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,280
Usually if a leader's saying
that it's not them who'll pick

665
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,480
up the workload.
No, it's the teachers who pick

666
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,560
up the workload.
And the teachers are picking up

667
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,240
the workload re planning lessons
they know will be uninspiring

668
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:24,120
for the children.
Yeah.

669
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,880
They know when you're sure it's
going to increase coverage and

670
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,520
it might be better in terms of
when offset come in and can tick

671
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,560
a box.
And that's the external

672
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,800
pressures we're talking about.
Yeah.

673
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,880
And that's why leaders are under
pressure to do this and that's

674
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,360
why they do it.
They're not doing it for fun.

675
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,000
They're not doing it just the
winders up.

676
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,400
They're doing it because they
think it's going to be better

677
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,640
for the school as a whole.
But you have to trust your

678
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,200
teachers.
And I think we're going to come

679
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,440
onto now, well, what can we
actually do then?

680
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,000
What can we actually do as
teachers to bolster this

681
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,960
creativity?
Because again, I want to make

682
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,720
this link teachers being able to
be creative in their lesson

683
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,960
planning is going to enable
children to be creative in their

684
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,400
learning and their outcomes and
boost that as well.

685
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,600
It's not just, oh, I want to be
creative in my job.

686
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,320
Isn't that sad?
No, no, it's, it's the impact

687
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,000
it's going to have on the
children as well.

688
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,720
So the first thing I'd say, you
work in a school where it's from

689
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,600
the top down, you're told you
have to do this, you have to do

690
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,280
this.
Number one, open up a

691
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,440
discussion, talk about it
openly.

692
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,000
Don't just sit there and moan
about it.

693
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,320
Literally go back and say, look,
our whole department here, our

694
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,960
whole year group are saying this
is going to have this kind of

695
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,280
impact.
And if the push back is tough,

696
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,560
you've got to do it.
Maybe you've got to move scores.

697
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,640
Yeah, yeah.
Or just you just got to be a bit

698
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,080
more confident in talking about
the the specifics.

699
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,360
Like I know in the past, I wish
I'd thought more about how I,

700
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:38,920
how I can now talk about
creativity.

701
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,160
In the past I was just like,
it's just a bit boring.

702
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,320
What I really want to, I should
have said was I really like this

703
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,400
scheme for this reason, this
reason, this, this reason.

704
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,520
It gives me great structure and
coverage across the curriculum

705
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,680
and it's ensuring that and it's
reducing my workload in that

706
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,120
aspect.
I don't have to go and do that

707
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:52,960
now.
So thank you.

708
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,800
However, it's really stifling
creativity in the classroom and

709
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,000
I think that's going to have a
very negative impact for the

710
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,560
reasons we've just discussed.
So can we as a school, please

711
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,960
have a staff meeting or some
training where we look at this

712
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,320
scheme?
We're not losing the overall

713
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,640
aspects of why we've bought this
in.

714
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,760
So if Ofsted come in, we can
still say we bought this scheme

715
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,000
to tackle this problem.
And here it is.

716
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,760
It addresses workload, it gives
us really good coverage and it

717
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,120
gives us great school wide
coverage as well.

718
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,120
Like we have themes that run
through the school now because

719
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,480
we've got this scheme and that's
why we bought this scheme in.

720
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,600
However, when it comes to the
delivery of lessons, we've also

721
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,560
worked on creativity because we
want to foster children's

722
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,120
engagement and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.

723
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,280
I think you can say all this and
Ofsted will not be turned around

724
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,120
saying, oh, no, lack of fidelity
here.

725
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,680
I'm not going to say that.
The ultimate example of how we

726
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,560
know that is because we went
through an Ofsted inspection

727
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,320
where maths went through a deep
dive.

728
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,000
You and I lead maths in our
school and we said exactly that

729
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,760
about White Rose.
We said exactly that in terms of

730
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,000
we've got it in because it makes
sure that from year three to

731
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,760
year six, we know we're getting
that coverage and that

732
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,320
progression that we need.
But also, so we have delivered

733
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,400
training to our staff which says
that based on the children in

734
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,920
front of you, you may need to
increase or decrease the pace

735
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,160
you go through the curriculum
and you may need to increase or

736
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,720
decrease the pitch that you're
levelling things at for the

737
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,880
children in front of you.
And that's good practise and

738
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,840
anything that gets rid of that,
which you could argue is a bit

739
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,600
of creativity, being able to
change a lesson, but also just

740
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,920
those wow and inspiring things.
That is part of inspiring your

741
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,720
children and getting to make
progress.

742
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,320
It's not creativity or progress.
Creativity feeds progress and

743
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,280
make things better.
So you're absolutely right.

744
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,920
I think you have to push things
back very specifically.

745
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,200
Like you said, list the good
things about the scheme.

746
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,960
Don't go to someone and just say
this is dreadful, 100% bad, blah

747
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,800
blah blah.
List the good things, say why

748
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,000
it's great, but then talk about
the drawbacks and be

749
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,120
professional about it.
Yeah, and hit top tip.

750
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,360
The way I can summarise this
tip, I guess is once you've had

751
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,080
that dialogue, this is what you
should do.

752
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,320
You should look at every single
lesson, right?

753
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,720
Let's say you're focusing on
geography or history, whatever.

754
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,080
You should look at every single
lesson, whether you've planned

755
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,080
it or you're looking much
respectively, and have a

756
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,440
discussion with your whole team
and say what element of this

757
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:58,920
lesson is creative and
inspiring.

758
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,520
And if there's none, I tell you
what, there's a red flag right

759
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,800
there.
And that's this is your chance

760
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,720
to say let's change something.
We have to change the whole

761
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,280
lesson, scrap it, get a new
scheme in.

762
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,360
I'm just saying just look at an
element of the lesson, maybe in

763
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,560
the middle or at the start or at
the end or something.

764
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,520
You can sit down as a team and
say, should we add in this task

765
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,080
because it's creative and
inspiring and engages their

766
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,880
curious minds and do that for
every lesson as a team, as a

767
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,840
school.
I'm not just speaking to

768
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,040
teachers, I'm speaking to SLT.
I'm speaking to everybody here.

769
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,400
That's something you can action
right now.

770
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,520
I remember at the start of my
career, one thing that was

771
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,320
amazing were wow days where
those those interactive, you

772
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,360
know, it's Roman day.
We're going to, we're going to

773
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,000
dress up as a Roman or we're
going to have interactive

774
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,840
activities that you know, the,
the sole purpose of doing this

775
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,920
is to inspire you for our topic
is to get you to want to learn

776
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,360
about it.
We had one for ancient Egypt.

777
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,800
I remember being in year 4
ancient Egyptians.

778
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,560
This was like in 2016.
We had a wow day at the start

779
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,200
and there were like 7 different
activities going on in the

780
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,400
corner.
There were some mummies being

781
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:58,880
made.
Children were wrapping each

782
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,000
other up in toilet paper.
Over in the other corner, we had

783
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,760
trays filled with sand with some
brushes and they were digging up

784
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,040
artefacts.
None of this is is trackable.

785
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,159
None of this is going off a
scheme.

786
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:12,920
Yeah.
None of this is Ofsted being

787
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,679
able to see on a piece of paper.
Oh, wow.

788
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,400
You've managed to go from X to Y
and you've retrieved so much

789
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,080
information.
But you know what it did.

790
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,360
Every single person in my class
was so excited for the Egyptian

791
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:23,960
unit.
Yeah.

792
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,880
And what it meant was that if
we're thinking about, oh, only

793
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,000
academics are important.
Only remembering facts are

794
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,719
important.
OK, Even if you think that being

795
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,639
creative and having those
moments of inspiration improves

796
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,320
that anyway, it's all leading
into everything.

797
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,960
It's such an important, vital
part of our job, which is being

798
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,440
squeezed and squeezed and
squeezed.

799
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,719
Because if you think, Oh no, the
scheme has nine lessons, I've

800
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,520
got to fit in.
I've only got room for six.

801
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,480
We definitely don't have time
for that wow day anymore.

802
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,120
If you're losing that, it's not
a good scheme.

803
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,040
I'll.
Tell you what, a little bonus

804
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,000
tip, you just maybe think of
them when you said, Oh no, the

805
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,840
scheme has nine lessons.
Another little thing you can do,

806
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,680
particularly with the afternoon
curriculums here is just remind

807
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,920
yourself of the curriculums
about a page for some of these

808
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,040
things.
And these nine lessons, although

809
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,280
I'm sure they're fantastic and
and they've really thought in

810
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,360
the scheme about this lovely
progression that probably you

811
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,840
could probably take out majority
of them and still not be like

812
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,640
contradiction this curriculum
because they're making them up.

813
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:16,960
Yeah.
Like the curriculum doesn't say

814
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,440
you have to do 9 lessons on the
Mayans.

815
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:19,600
Yeah, it doesn't say that.
Yeah.

816
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,040
You know, I mean, like you can
probably as a school without

817
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,640
losing fidelity to the scheme,
but just just take out a couple

818
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,240
of them 'cause it doesn't fit
your, you've, your time, you

819
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:29,320
haven't got enough time to do
it.

820
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,800
And that is also completely OK.
So I want to move on to another

821
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:32,840
tip.
Now we've kind of, I feel like

822
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,560
we've talked about some of the
bigger things and like

823
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,200
everything we've said about here
was about inspiring the, the

824
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:38,600
culture of creativity in the
school.

825
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,320
But there are some little things
you can do in the classroom as

826
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,120
well, such as using elements of
drama.

827
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,280
You don't have to do a whole
drama lesson to use a bit of

828
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,240
drama, right?
Some of the best activities I've

829
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:49,960
ever done.
And this happens genuinely for

830
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,800
any lesson, you could probably
shoehorn it into anything from

831
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,480
maths to English to to science
to to history, right?

832
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,720
Do a bit of hot seating.
Why not do a bit of hot seating?

833
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,480
Add it into your lesson, Spend 5
minutes, do a conscience ally.

834
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,080
I remember doing that with I
think we knew actually delivered

835
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,040
this lesson years ago.
It was something to do with the

836
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,240
Egyptians.
Oh, it was Lord Carnival and

837
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:10,840
like, you know, because because
he's a very rich person coming

838
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,680
in and and Africa and exploiting
maybe the local Yeah and.

839
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,440
With two the common it was an
Egyptian topic, wasn't?

840
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,560
It it was about like, should we
open the tomb or not?

841
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,560
Because that's an ancient
Egyptian thing, and you're a

842
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,520
foreigner coming in.
And we had half the kids on one

843
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,280
side of the room, that kind of
being like one side of his

844
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,800
conscience and half the side,
half, half the class, the other

845
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,920
side like saying the positives
and negative things.

846
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:29,880
So it was like, we had this and
it was great.

847
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,760
And it took like minutes, but it
got the kids inspired and

848
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,920
curious as to like, oh, yeah,
maybe there's different ways we

849
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,000
can think about.
Maybe there's different ways we

850
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,360
can interpret history and
different perceptions, you know,

851
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,200
Oh, but the.
Scheme said we have to do this

852
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,880
because there's going to be a
worksheet and we have to have

853
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,440
either side of it and we have to
fill in a pro and against and we

854
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:47,880
have to get 3 bullet points
down.

855
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,640
No, you don't.
Yeah, there are more than

856
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,120
there's more than one way of
delivering a point.

857
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,360
That's what you're saying.
And you know what, if this, if

858
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:56,880
you're really in one of those
schools where they're just

859
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,120
adamant you can do both.
Yeah.

860
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,520
Do that activity first.
What a great way of getting them

861
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,120
to get ideas to then go and
write.

862
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,040
They've got to go and do the
annoying written task for them

863
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,760
to regurgitate the thing they've
already just learned.

864
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,080
Yeah, at least they've had a
nice, nice way of learning it,

865
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:09,880
rather than you standing at the
front and telling them all these

866
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,840
facts and to write down in their
book 3 seconds later.

867
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,040
Completely true.
The the ultimate example of this

868
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,880
again is I'm thinking back to
this year in my practise where I

869
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,360
made-up a debate like I made-up
this.

870
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,760
I can't even, I can't even
remember.

871
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,040
We were debating, we were
learning about ancient Egypt and

872
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,560
the debate ended up being
whether or not the British

873
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,960
Museum should send back to Egypt
the Egyptian artefacts because

874
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,040
the point being they're
literally Egyptian artefacts.

875
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,800
We've potentially taken them
through ways that we shouldn't

876
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,880
have.
But the point being with the

877
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,520
children was there are Egyptian
artefacts in Britain, Egypt want

878
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:42,960
them back.
Should we send them back to

879
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,600
Egypt?
And that developed into a whole

880
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,560
debate in the classroom where I
taught the children how debates

881
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,360
work as well.
So we did this whole vote at the

882
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,320
start before anyone spoke.
And we said, what side are you

883
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:54,920
on?
What?

884
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,240
What do you think is the right
thing to do?

885
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:57,600
We should send them back or we
shouldn't.

886
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,840
Then we did the debate and we
did what?

887
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:00,960
You have a go.
You have a go.

888
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,400
You can respond.
You can respond.

889
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:03,600
And we went backwards and
forwards.

890
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,760
And then we did another vote
halfway through.

891
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,400
That's cool.
And then some of them changed

892
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,440
sides and they were like, Oh my
God, you moved across.

893
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,240
Yeah, I've been convinced.
And then I said, OK, and now we

894
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:14,480
could finish here.
But now you're in your new

895
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,280
groups get together.
What's your number one argument

896
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,160
you've got here?
And let's finish it off and then

897
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,400
have a final vote.
And we did a final vote.

898
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,960
And I explained to them how if
you're judging a debate, it's

899
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,680
not always just who has the most
votes wins, it's who had the

900
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,720
biggest difference.
So if you've convinced four

901
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:32,680
people to move over, even if you
have fewer, you could argue

902
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,040
you've won the debate, right?
Because you've got the biggest

903
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,280
change.
And we talked about the

904
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,560
difference between the amount of
people who think something or

905
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,120
the amount of people who change
their mind and why ones not

906
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,360
necessarily better than the
other.

907
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,360
If it was a vote, this side
would still win.

908
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,040
But the debate has changed more
minds that way.

909
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,000
And we spoke about debates.
I mean, and.

910
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,200
And the kids loved it so much.
And I know they loved it because

911
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,800
for the next two weeks, I had
people.

912
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:55,520
Can we do debate?
Yeah.

913
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:56,520
Can we do it?
Can we do debate?

914
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,160
Please do it again.
Because it was completely

915
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,320
different than what we normally
do.

916
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,840
It wasn't just me stood at the
front regurgitating fact.

917
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,400
This person thought this and the
other person thought that.

918
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,680
And then they had an argument.
And then they decided that this

919
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,560
was going to happen.
That's the same thing but all

920
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,440
way more boring, way less
interesting.

921
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,480
The kids not engaged.
And as a teacher, you can

922
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,960
channel that energy.
You can and channel what you did

923
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,680
there, that creativity, that
inspiration into whatever you

924
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,040
want afterwards.
So again, if you're a teacher

925
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,760
that's thinking, yeah, but I
just need to get something

926
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,800
written down.
Do that after then your, your

927
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,880
next task then can be let's
write down our thoughts and

928
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,960
feelings and, and maybe do an
evaluation of our debate or

929
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,520
something like that.
Or it cannot.

930
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,520
It can be something else.
But the point stands.

931
00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:35,720
Going back to sort of your idea
of wild days and things, it's

932
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:39,240
the same concept, isn't it?
We need to remember what our

933
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:44,800
jobs are as teachers.
We are not just deliverers, we

934
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,120
are designers.
We need to in our job is to

935
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,680
inspire children to want to
learn, to be curious, and we

936
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,080
cannot do that without
creativity.

937
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,240
I cannot stress enough how
important this concept of

938
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:01,240
creativity is in all aspects,
from our first prong to our

939
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:04,680
second prong, you know?
And we have to push back.

940
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,360
And the reason we have to push
back on this, this, this slide

941
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,400
towards delivery, delivery,
delivery is because eventually

942
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,960
we won't have a profession
anymore if it ends up being here

943
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,400
is something that is pre written
and every single person does it

944
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,560
exactly.
And I'm not saying schemes are

945
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,240
bad because I've been a
proponent for schemes, but I

946
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:25,280
think we've been very clear
about how schemes can be useful

947
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,400
and how they should be used.
If it ends up just being no, no,

948
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,920
no, you have to say exactly this
like a script.

949
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,680
What will end up happening is we
won't be a profession anymore.

950
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,880
We won't be highly skilled
individuals delivering lessons

951
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:37,920
because you simply don't need
them.

952
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,000
They're not designers anymore.
The design has been done and

953
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,120
they are just delivering.
And we'll get less qualified

954
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,720
teachers in front of our
children, and we don't want

955
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:48,440
that.
Let's finish this episode by

956
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,880
going back to the start.
I'm going to ask you the same

957
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,760
question that you asked me.
Has creativity died in the

958
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,880
classroom then?
In many classrooms, yes.

959
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:04,000
In some classrooms, no.
And I think what this discussion

960
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,200
has to be here and why we've
done this episode is we have to

961
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,000
talk about it because it's
happening.

962
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,720
Creativity is dying, OK.
Has it gone completely?

963
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,680
Obviously not.
But we have to push back and we

964
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,480
have to understand that
creativity, whether it's in the

965
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,280
literal lesson itself and why
it's important to do the arts or

966
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,840
just actually have creativity as
a skill and as a profession when

967
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,320
you're planning a lesson, can
impact the children positively.

968
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:37,200
It all comes full circle too.
Creativity is vital in education

969
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,760
and we have to protect it.
And the fact it's dying is sad

970
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,120
and we have to talk about it and
we have to push back on it.

971
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:44,800
I agree.
So you know what you've got to

972
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,520
do, teachers?
Be creative and leave us a

973
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,160
review.
I love it.

974
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:49,440
Creative.
Great segue.

975
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,360
Maybe there's a five star review
that's quite great.

976
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,080
Maybe there could be a creative
way that you could share this

977
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,680
episode with your friends.
Yeah, do a story and maybe like

978
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,280
an interpretive dance behind it
or something.

979
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,480
Yeah, maybe you could hot seat
me.

980
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:59,560
Yeah.
And I could hot seat you.

981
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:00,800
Yeah.
And oh, that's just a podcast.

982
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,040
Imagine 2 podcasters saying how
important creativity is.

983
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,080
It's actually more day right
now.

984
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,120
And there we go.
We'll leave it to that, shall

985
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:10,520
we?
Drama's important, otherwise you

986
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:11,760
wouldn't have T seat.
Repeat.