Ep 118: Life After Teaching: From Burnout To New Beginnings with Sophie Hayes (StoryZoo)

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Deep

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Sleep.
Repeat.

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My name is Dylan.
And my name is Hayden where

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we're.
We're in our new studio that

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we've been teasing for the last
10 months.

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Are we Dylan?
Is this our new studio?

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Or not?
No.

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Yeah, but we do have similar
chairs.

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You were saying?
Yeah, we have exactly identical.

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Not identical.
OK, sorry.

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Ever so slightly different
shades of blue chairs in our new

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studio, which is still.
Upcoming, it will come up, yeah,

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I promise you.
At some point in the near future

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maybe, I don't know.
Anyway, we're here.

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Last week we spoke about leaving
teaching.

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Huge podcast episode for us to
actually put it out there

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because like you said, we've
been spending a lot of time.

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A lot of our listeners got in
touch and they said I had no

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idea.
I listen every week and I didn't

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know.
And I was like, because we kind

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of really didn't mention it for
a long time.

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Yeah, big decision for us.
How do you feel having put it

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out there now that.
We're seeing, I was so

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beforehand I was quite nervous
about it because I didn't know

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what the reaction was going to
be.

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I feel much better now because
we've had a lot of a lot of

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really, really nice messages,
like genuinely longwell, like

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just thought out messages from
people saying thank you

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basically.
And you, you struggle with being

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long winded and thoughtful.
So that's that's a yeah, I.

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Struggle.
I thought this must be fake

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this.
Must be fake.

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But they were really nice
messages because they were

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basically saying, like they all
had the similar sort of vibe to

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them, which was, I'm glad you're
still doing the podcast because

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I was worried that people would
be like, oh, don't wanna listen

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then.
Yeah, yeah, they don't listen to

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you anymore.
Yeah.

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They were like, I'm glad you're
still doing the podcast.

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I'm glad you're honest about the
reasons and you're giving it and

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giving it a fair whack as well.
I think I was worried, I think

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you were a bit worried as well
about being overly negative.

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Yeah, about teaching in general
and, and why we're leaving.

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And I think people were pretty
comfortable with the fact that

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no, we're, we're giving it a
very fair whack.

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Yeah, This is the downsides,
this is the upsides.

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And we've chosen to leave
teaching For these reasons.

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So a.
Huge thing that I, I found from

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people messaging and again, I
just want to say directly to you

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guys now, thank you so much for
your messages because it really

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settled us quickly.
I remember hovering over that

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send button on Instagram because
on Sunday night I thought, let's

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just do a post about it and see
what happens.

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And people are so nice and a
huge chunk of you guys listening

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at home are teachers at the
start of their career thinking

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about training or I've just
started the ECT journey.

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And something I'm really, really
passionate about and we spoke

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about at the end of last week is
not wanting to completely put

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people off this career because
it is amazing.

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Teaching is genuinely amazing,
and I will never regret doing

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it.
And you asked me last week if

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I'd ever say to someone, well,
would you still become a

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teacher?
Would I say, yeah, it's worth

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doing?
And the honest answer is I still

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would to the right person.
And there's so many people out

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there who messaged along the
lines of court.

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Thank you so much.
But, you know, we're we're going

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to stick to it.
Thanks for being real and having

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eyes open to what's about to
come.

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I thought that and then I went
to moderation this week and then

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that changed my mind.
I'm joking.

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I'm joking.
But so you had this really,

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really nice thought that maybe
teaching is lovely, and then you

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went to writing.
Moderation and then and then I

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went back to work.
I remember there were so many

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elements.
I just, I just grind my gears.

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We spoke about right of
moderation very briefly the

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other week.
So you actually went for it

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properly.
Now a bunch of people online

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were messaging saying no, no, we
can't choose our own books to

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take to moderation.
We get given the the names of

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the people You went to
moderation.

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What happened?
Everyone takes their own books.

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You choose your own books.
I think maybe just give people

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some credit here.
Maybe they were just

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misunderstanding the difference
between moderations.

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When a moderator comes into your
school, which is a lot more

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formal and a lot more intense
because they do, you give them

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a.
You tend to give them a like a a

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whole year group list and they
just go, yeah, let's just pick

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some.
Kids.

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Yeah.
Random.

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Sure.
Kind of round, but they're

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picking, right?
But no, absolutely not a county

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moderation.
Certainly in our county,

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everyone just the instructions
say bring 5 books or if you have

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a cohort that's bigger than like
32, just bring 15% of your

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cohort.
And and so, you know, when

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you're taking these, this is the
point we're trying to make.

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When you take these books to
moderation and you're saying,

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OK, I've judged this child to be
expected standard, and you will

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take a child who you know, is
solidly expected.

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Yeah.
That's the point.

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You won't take someone on the
cast.

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Yeah.
When that gets moderated and you

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all agree that that is the
expected standard.

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The point being you can go back
to school and tick off everyone

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you've said is expected.
Yeah.

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Even if clearly they're not at
that level.

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And it's a way of getting
through more children to make

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your data look better.
Yeah, there's a very cynical

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view, but it's true because you
even said that's the point.

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And it's ironically, it's not
the point of the actual point.

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The real purpose, like we said
last time, is just supposed to

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bring books that are kind of on
the cusp, but no one does.

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And that that's why I started
this whole thing of like, Oh

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yeah, moderations reminded me.
I don't do it anymore because

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it's just another one of those
farcical parts of this job where

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it's like.
We'll pretend it's doing the

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job.
It's.

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Attending.
Yeah.

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And you know what was really
interesting to me?

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The fewest number of people I've
ever seen there.

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Really.
Yeah.

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In fact, it was like almost
embarrassingly low low numbers

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of schools turning up to.
It so is that schools who aren't

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doing internal moderation
formally are basically saying,

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oh, we won't go and we'll just
put through our numbers because

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it is.
Optional in quotation marks to

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go to moderation.
Yeah.

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It's just very like it's frowned
upon if you don't go And.

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And it is the idea is, oh, it
scares you into thinking on

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that.
They might come and check on us

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more often than if we don't do
this thing.

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You're supposed to do it to a
box, right?

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Yeah, but it also cost money.
People forget that bit.

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It costs money to send teachers
to moderation.

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Schools famously have loads of
that line around.

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The schools have loads of money,
especially when it's like £200 a

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day per person.
Yeah, wow.

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So you know you want you want
to.

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Send three of you went.
Yeah, you want to send two or

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three, That's what I mean.
But like we hadn't we and

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normally we send two and we had
to send three this time.

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So I'm I'm leaving.
So it's kind of like a

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transitional thing for the other
member of staff who's not been

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before, right.
There's a lot of people there

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saying, yeah, I'm my school
could only afford to send me and

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I've got like 18 books to go
through and I'm not look at

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them.
But there was just lots of

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schools that just went, Nah,
we're just not paying it.

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We'll take our chances.
And I thought that was really

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interesting because I've not
seen that was like a big shift,

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yeah, compared to all the
previous years that I've done as

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well.
Well, you were telling me about

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someone you met at moderation
and something I wanted to touch

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on quickly because we're
speaking about leaving teaching

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in general last week.
We're going to speak to Sophie

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today.
I can't wait to speak to her

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about the journey she's gone on
leaving teaching and how you can

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still impact children outside of
that and still have a kind of

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drive to want to help children.
We were speaking earlier about

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someone you spoke to at
Moderation who's become a mum.

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And there's this idea at the
minute in teaching of new mums

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being penalised because let's
face it, a huge chunk of

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teachers, especially in primary
school, are female.

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And when they come to have
children of themselves for, for

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themselves, they're going back
to work and it's just not viable

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and they're going part time
taking a hit on their on their

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money.
Yeah.

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You spoke to someone who's
really interesting.

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They worked something.
Out.

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Yeah.
So let me tell you what they

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said.
So basically when when we got,

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you know, bored of moderating
books after three hours and we

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were talking of just about life.
Pay £200 for this catch up.

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Yeah, I know.
Yeah, I paid.

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Yeah.
My school paid £200.

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We used to go testing this
teacher.

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Don't tell anyone.
It's good.

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We're not telling everybody in
the world.

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I yeah, yeah.
She was young mum.

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She's a fairly new mum and said
she's she's back off maternity

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leave now and she's working four
days a week at school.

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And she said it's great, it's
worked out really well.

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She's like really appreciate,
appreciated the extra day and

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said it's not that crazy hit in
terms of money.

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We spoke about that before, like
what you actually take before

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tax and all that.
But she said due to her

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circumstances and not really
having any family around to help

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with childcare and things, she
just has to go back to work 5

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days from September next year.
And she said she's kind of

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dreading it a bit because she
has quite enjoyed having that

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other day off.
So if she hasn't got childcare,

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how is she working more?
Is this for nursery fees?

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Yeah, it's for so the.
Yeah, it's a bit of an awkward

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one, right?
So it works out better for them

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financially very slightly.
And this is the kind of the crux

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of the story, right?
That that they that they both

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work.
So her and her partner both work

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full time and then they have to
pay for nursery fees.

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And she said the painful bit
came when she sat down and

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actually worked out the net gain
in what she's earning when you

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account for the fact that her
child is now going to be going

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to nursery on the Friday as well
as the mother Tuesday.

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OK, so.
Going from four days a week

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Monday to Thursday to five days
a week Monday to Friday, what

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impact did that have on what she
earned?

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So she gained, she worked out
that she gained 36 lbs for that

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Friday.
So she's like, so I'm going to

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work on a Friday doing a whole
day of teaching, you know, and

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you know, you know what that
entails.

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Again, we'll speak this over
about all this sort of stuff in

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a bit.
She got 36 lbs extra in a pay

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packet because you often you've
got to deduct the nursery fees.

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Wow.
So yeah, she was like, yeah, I'm

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not really sure.
She was like laughing and

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everything was that laugh where
I was like, yeah, I'm actually

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dying inside here because
everything is worth doing.

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Yeah.
And I was like, Oh yeah, that,

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that is.
But.

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We really do.
We live in, we live in a society

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now where that 36 lbs becomes,
even though if you break it

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down, you say, oh, that's £4 an
hour, It's 36 lbs more.

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Yeah.
And, and they're probably in a

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situation like many families up
and down where they think, do

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you know what?
Obviously it's I'm going to have

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to whole extra days work for
this, but I need that extra £30

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comes down to that, Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:01,880
And it, and it honestly, it just
kind of sucks.

231
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:03,880
I felt really sorry for her
because I could tell she didn't

232
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,000
want to do that.
Yeah, I could tell that she

233
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,360
quite enjoyed the balance of
four days of we could teach of

234
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,320
teaching and three days, you
know, the weekend.

235
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:10,680
And it's not even 3 days really,
is it?

236
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,240
No, of course it's not 3 days
because she'll be doing her

237
00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:14,920
planning and marking and things
at the weekend.

238
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,040
And ultimately what, who, who
really misses out is the child

239
00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,560
as well.
Yeah, because we want, we're,

240
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,720
we're in a, we're in a stage
right now where people aren't

241
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,960
having children as much because
it's not just because they're

242
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:26,920
Willy nilly thinking, I won't
bother doing it anymore.

243
00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,160
It's because I know so many
people around my age who are

244
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:30,960
thinking, well, I put that off
because I just can't afford to

245
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,120
do it.
And it's situation like this why

246
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,360
you've got to work to the bone,
both of you, full time just to

247
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,440
pay for your child to be looked
after by someone else.

248
00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,880
You're burnt out when you get
home, you spend the weekend

249
00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,400
catching up on the little bits
and bobs you want to do.

250
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,360
And ultimately it's the child
who misses out.

251
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,920
And a big thing at the minute
I've seen is a push for

252
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,360
paternity pay being moved up.
And as teachers, you know, we

253
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,320
got two weeks off and it was
like, it was a godsend when that

254
00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,560
two weeks aligned with a half
term because we got three weeks

255
00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:57,960
instead.
And it's just, we got to make so

256
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,120
many changes, I think.
And we we're going to talk with

257
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,920
Sophie about how the education
system in general has become

258
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,760
broken and why maybe people are
leaving.

259
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,240
But people are absolutely right.
And some people commented this

260
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,080
and they said, guys, you're
going to realise very soon that

261
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,480
a lot is broken right now.
It's not just a case of

262
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,480
education and isolation is is
gone bad?

263
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,280
Never thought that.
No, but we never really thought

264
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:17,680
that.
It's just that we can talk about

265
00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:18,400
that thing.
Yeah.

266
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,120
And some people, that's what
annoys me sometimes when people

267
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,640
say, oh, it's not just that, you
know, I know it's not just, I'm

268
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,640
not claiming that this is the
only problem in the world.

269
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,680
It's just that we know about
this one we can talk about, this

270
00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:28,920
one, you know, other people can
talk about.

271
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:30,040
Other things.
Why don't you talk about other

272
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,120
things?
Sorry, it's called teach sleep,

273
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,400
repeat.
It's not called welding sleep,

274
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:33,840
repeat.
So.

275
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,560
It might as well be soon, you
know?

276
00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:39,240
We've got an announcement to
make, guys.

277
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:40,560
We're moving into the welding
world.

278
00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:44,240
We're not no.
Have you before we go and chat

279
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,440
to Sophie, I'm wondering because
I'm just thinking about the

280
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,840
fallout from announcing we're
leaving teaching and, and like

281
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,200
the public and what they said
online and Instagram and things

282
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,800
like that.
Have you told the children in

283
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,040
your class now then?
Because obviously we announced

284
00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:57,960
it and we said we'd tell the
children.

285
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,840
How have they taken it?
I had a really really nice chat

286
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,000
with mine, genuine.
So I have told them to, you

287
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,720
know, a Long story short, but
I've got such much chore class

288
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,320
this year.
I actually, I generally do

289
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,720
anyway, but I love talking to
this class.

290
00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,920
Like we have such deep
conversations about about things

291
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:14,920
like particularly not RE lessons
and things where you can go into

292
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,640
like really big conversations.
And we were just talking.

293
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,400
I think it was might have even
been an RE lesson.

294
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,560
I don't know, but we're talking
about like contentness and

295
00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:25,000
happiness and kind of what what
people want from life.

296
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,480
And we were talking about
material things because of last,

297
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,440
but that's where it came from.
The kids were saying that it's

298
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,560
really hard, like harder now
than ever before because there's

299
00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:34,040
so much social media telling us
we need all these things.

300
00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,080
We need to look a certain way
and buy certain things and do

301
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:37,280
this.
And the and the fact they're

302
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,480
feeling that already as you have
six children, yeah, is insane,

303
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:41,720
isn't it?
Just as a stand alone.

304
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,240
So I felt like I had to.
I couldn't just cross over that.

305
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,200
I was like, we have to talk
about this then for a minute.

306
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,200
And if it means I don't have to
teach lesson, don't want to

307
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:48,400
teach.
Oh.

308
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,320
Fine.
Oh no, we accidentally talked

309
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,880
for 2 1/2 hours.
Give it 5 more minutes and then

310
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,480
I'll say this.
Again, all the time you keep

311
00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:57,040
talking about something.
Yeah.

312
00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,080
And we end up talking about this
whole thing about like, OK,

313
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,120
what's the what's the point
then?

314
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,160
Like we just want to be happy.
Like, what actually is that

315
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,160
then?
Is it just more money?

316
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,480
Is it just money?
And we'll talk about the, the

317
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,760
less naive things of like, well,
obviously money does buy a

318
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,960
little bit of happiness and that
you can do things with money

319
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,680
that might unlock certain things
that you enjoy, but it's not the

320
00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:13,920
only thing.
And the kids are talking about

321
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,040
this and they challenge one of
the one of the boys challenge

322
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,080
me.
And it was, and it wasn't like

323
00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,000
they weren't trying to be silly.
They've been real and I'd

324
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,480
already announced, you know, a
few days before that I was I was

325
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,200
going to be leaving teaching.
I'll be leaving with them

326
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:25,480
because they're year 6 and going
on.

327
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,920
And he just said, OK, but Mrs
Stevens, why, why is it the ol

328
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:32,080
even teaching them?
Because I don't.

329
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,920
I've also made it really clear
to them that I absolutely love

330
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:35,840
being in the classroom with
them.

331
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,360
Like that's my favourite part of
my day is being in the classroom

332
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:39,640
with them.
I love that.

333
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,760
So he very, very like like I get
it way to the two together.

334
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,760
He was like, OK, so you said
like money is not the only

335
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,520
reason to, to be happy.
You said you love being in, in

336
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,400
the classroom with us.
So why are you leaving teaching

337
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:53,640
to go and do like businessy
things?

338
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,360
And it was really sort of like,
OK, this is quite a challenging

339
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,160
question.
So to cop out, what I'm going to

340
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,880
do is pretend that you're in
that situation.

341
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,280
And I because obviously I, I had
an answer and I can tell you

342
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,280
what I said, but I kind of want
to know what you would say in

343
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,360
that moment with those kids.
I ask you that I don't think

344
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,480
it's that tricky because I think
we just stick true to ourselves.

345
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:12,520
Like we've always said on the
podcast.

346
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,360
We spoke about it last week.
I, I would say to that child at

347
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,040
that point that I am choosing
happiness.

348
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,200
It is as simple as that.
And I'm, and you know, there's a

349
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,160
couple of reasons we ways we can
explain this.

350
00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:23,200
I'm losing my pay packet for
teaching.

351
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,440
I'm not suddenly earning
thousands and thousands of

352
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:26,840
pounds extra.
I'm walking into a different

353
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,600
job.
I've come to the point where

354
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,680
you've assessed happiness in, in
life.

355
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,280
For me personally, I'd say to
him, I want to spend more time

356
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,160
with my son.
And it's not a case of I don't

357
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,280
want to work hard.
I do really want to work hard.

358
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,040
I want to work hard on things
I'm really passionate about.

359
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,240
So I was staying in education.
So we're really going to try and

360
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,600
make a difference trying to
expand this podcast, try and do

361
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,000
more in the business world,
sure, but to help children

362
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,440
ultimately.
And I can be flexible.

363
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,560
So if if my son, you know, when
he grows up to go to school and

364
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:55,600
there's a sports day, I don't
need to grovel to someone's

365
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:56,680
cell, please.
And I go and watch myself.

366
00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:58,120
I'll just move things around.
I can go and do it.

367
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,480
I am ultimately choosing
happiness personally by choosing

368
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,320
to leave education.
And I think that's something you

369
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,840
can easily explain to the
children and say, you know, I'm

370
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,000
not motivated, motivated by one
thing in particular.

371
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,040
But if I had to pick something,
it would be my ultimate

372
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,440
well-being and happiness.
And I think this decision,

373
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,440
despite me loving a part of it,
there's other things that come

374
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:19,600
with it.
And you don't need to go into

375
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,160
detail with a child about the
the highs and lows of filling

376
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,680
out assessment forms.
You know, they don't need to

377
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:24,880
know that.
But what they need to know is

378
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,640
that by making this decision,
it's not a slight on everything

379
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,280
I've said.
I'm not being hypocritical.

380
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:31,480
What I'm doing is I'm just
choosing to be happy in a

381
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:32,920
different way, which I think
will be.

382
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,240
Better overall, Yeah.
And at that point, they regret

383
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,400
asking, you know, life story,
you know, they're like, all

384
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,160
right, I just want you to say
that you do like us and you're

385
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,160
and you're going to be sad about
it.

386
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,160
All right.
Didn't need your life story,

387
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:43,520
mate.
Cheers.

388
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,400
But, yeah, in a nut, I mean,
there's not much time because I

389
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:47,840
I kind of said the same sort of
thing to them.

390
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,240
And I just was really real of
them.

391
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,440
You know, I was just honest.
And I was even honest about like

392
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,120
the parts of the job that I
don't find as enjoyable.

393
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,440
Like teaching you?
Did you say that?

394
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:57,320
Yeah.
No, no.

395
00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:58,840
Absolutely not.
Can you imagine?

396
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:00,080
I did, yeah.
Yeah.

397
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,040
But I was just real.
And he was like, oh, fair

398
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:02,840
enough.
That makes sense.

399
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,000
I was.
I was quite glad that I could

400
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,800
just have that candid like real.
A big thing I think about the

401
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,480
reason why I love it as well
with children, they're so

402
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,920
there's no philtre whatsoever
and you can have those

403
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:12,640
conversations with them.
And I think people again, who

404
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,520
aren't around children as much,
I've had conversations before

405
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,720
what they say.
You said that to them and I

406
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,520
said, yeah, because they can
understand this.

407
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,120
Yeah.
If a child's being annoying to

408
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,800
another child, I can say to this
8-9 year old, well, why do you

409
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:25,960
think they don't want to play
with you?

410
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,640
You're being annoying right now.
You're doing something that's

411
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,760
annoying them and they don't
want to be around you.

412
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,160
Yeah.
And a lot of people say, oh, you

413
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:33,560
can't say that.
You need to sugarcoat it in this

414
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:34,720
way.
That way you can have that

415
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,280
professional dialogue.
And if you you know your

416
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:38,640
children, you wouldn't say it to
some of them.

417
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,680
Yeah, but there's some children
who you go, no, we can, we can

418
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,000
handle this right now.
I'm going to talk to you real

419
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,040
for a second.
And This is why.

420
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,280
And I think in that situation,
like you said, depending on who

421
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:46,560
asked me, it would shake my
answer.

422
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,560
Basically, I'd tell them the
truth, or I'd just simplify it

423
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,400
and say, look, I am choosing
happiness, I'm doing this, and

424
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,840
me choosing happiness is
chatting to Sophie about how

425
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,960
she's built this business
outside of teaching and what she

426
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,560
can do outside of it.
Yeah, which I'm really looking

427
00:14:58,560 --> 00:14:59,880
forward to doing.
So can we get on with it?

428
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,720
Right, let's do it.
Let's go, Sophie.

429
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,280
Nice of you to join us, Lovely.
To see you.

430
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,840
To meet you.
How are you?

431
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,880
I'm great.
I mean, I'm in this comfortable

432
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:10,360
sofa that we shouldn't have
spoken about.

433
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,600
Absolutely.
Lovely and feeling relieved now

434
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,160
that the news is out.
I know it's, it's big.

435
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,640
We'll, we'll, we've left.
We've, we're leaving teaching.

436
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,240
It's still, I can't get my head
around it.

437
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,160
We spoke about it all last week
on last week's episode.

438
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,720
But we wanted to chat with you
specifically as well about your

439
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,160
journey to going from a teacher
in the classroom to making that

440
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,080
leap to leaving.
Because so many people have

441
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,640
messaged us and said it's
something I want to do.

442
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,160
It's something I think will
happen eventually.

443
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,840
And they just have so many
different reservations.

444
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,800
So I guess to start with, I'm
interested in your journey.

445
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,880
How long have you been teaching?
When did you make that first

446
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,720
decision that I'm going to have
to leave at some point and how

447
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:48,600
long did it take?
What?

448
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,000
What did you do?
Yeah, so I was ATA before I was

449
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,520
a teacher.
So I started as ATA just before

450
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,440
my daughter was born, so nine
years ago.

451
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,880
And then I trained to be a
teacher through schools direct

452
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,280
on the job.
So a bit different to to some

453
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:10,160
teachers, but and then I've been
teaching for 7 1/2 years before

454
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,200
I made the decision to leave.
Huge decision.

455
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,280
It's big, isn't it?
Yeah.

456
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,960
How did that feel?
Because obviously in that 7 1/2

457
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,600
years, when did you first start
to think I don't think this is a

458
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,400
job for life?
Yeah, and I don't know if I, I

459
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,520
even think that now.
Like I always set out with this

460
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,760
was really secure from a dynasty
of, of teachers.

461
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,800
So my mum was ATA for 20 plus
years.

462
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,920
My sister's a teacher, my
brother's a teacher, my husband,

463
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,000
his mum.
So I'm from a real history of

464
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,960
teachers and I think it's seen
as like a nice secure job,

465
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,760
respectable.
So I, yeah, sort of fell into

466
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,360
it.
I was a dancer previously and

467
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,120
then retrained as a teacher.
So it was my job that I was

468
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,760
going to do because it fitted in
with the kids and until it

469
00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,240
didn't.
Do you feel, do you feel like

470
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,840
you knew maybe because you're
route in as ATA?

471
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,520
Do you feel like you knew what
you were getting into?

472
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,280
Maybe even better than people
who come in blind or just

473
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,599
training?
Teachers as I've as I've gone

474
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,440
on, I've seen teachers fresh out
of uni and I think that's a

475
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,040
complete shock to the system.
I feel like I had a little bit

476
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,680
of an insight into what was
going on in the landscape.

477
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,520
It definitely made me a better
teacher to work with I think for

478
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,599
a teaching assistant.
But yeah, I think I had more

479
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,680
more of an idea, but I still
didn't fully understand how the

480
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,600
landscape was going to change,
especially in the last few

481
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,320
years.
And yeah, it's no secret how

482
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,440
hard it is at the moment.
It's tough.

483
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,840
It's really tough.
And you mentioned your family.

484
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,080
So a big thing for us when we
were speaking about why we

485
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,760
decided to quit teaching was,
you know, we've been teaching

486
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,960
about 10 years now.
So it's a long time for all of

487
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,680
us.
And a big thing that changed in

488
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,160
our lives was we both had
children around the same time.

489
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,960
And it was huge for us seeing
how this unbelievable job where

490
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,960
we love helping the children as
much as possible was starting to

491
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,560
almost take away from what we
could do for our own child.

492
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,160
Absolutely.
And, you know, my son's not even

493
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,840
2 yet.
And already in that time, I

494
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,480
thought to myself, he's not
getting the best deal from me.

495
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,080
And you mentioned obviously
training when your daughter was

496
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:13,440
born.
I.

497
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,680
Think yes, I was actually
pregnant when I was doing my

498
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,320
teacher training, which is
mental.

499
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:18,960
Yeah.
So I managed to finish just

500
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,000
before I had her.
I had her in May half term.

501
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,200
Oh, and I finished literally a
few days before.

502
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,680
Oh my God.
So she was really, really young

503
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,440
when I was.
I was an NQT, not an ECT, but I

504
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,480
was when I was.
She under age there.

505
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,720
I mean 4 NQTS all the way.
From SO my NQT year she was tiny

506
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,880
so I was juggling going back to
work and her being really small.

507
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,200
So it's all I've ever known to
my my daughter's now 8 and my

508
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,680
son, he was 4 1/2 months when I
went back to teaching.

509
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,040
So I had two little ones.
They're 18 months apart and

510
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,920
lucky I had my mum, who's a huge
help because if I had to pay for

511
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,640
childcare, I don't know what we
would do.

512
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,680
My husband's a teacher as well.
And so there's staff meetings,

513
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,240
there's late nights, there's
parents evening.

514
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,880
They always come at the same
time.

515
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,480
So we're always asking my mum to
come and rescue us.

516
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,560
But yeah, family and the dynamic
that it had, I felt like every

517
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,280
day when when I was getting home
from school, my patients had

518
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,680
gone because of the nature of
the type of person that becomes

519
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,880
a teacher.
I think you have.

520
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,440
You have your dedication to that
role.

521
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,560
It's a vocation.
It's not a job.

522
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,640
And as we've always been told,
but something has to give.

523
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,960
And for me, that was when I got
home and I had no patience and

524
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,320
they were tired.
And I was trying to cook dinner

525
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,880
and I had him hurry on my hip
and Harper down playing.

526
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,000
And I was trying to cook, cook a
spaghetti Bolognese.

527
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,280
And it was all going to put.
And I needed to get them in bed

528
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,400
because I needed to plan.
So it was all rushy and I felt

529
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,240
like I had no time.
And that always coincided with

530
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,600
my husband feeling the same
because he had deadlines at

531
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,400
work.
And so it just, it's, it really

532
00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,720
amazes me that a profession that
is dedicated to children can

533
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,200
have such an impact on the
families of the people that are

534
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,080
working in in schools.
I think people underestimate how

535
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,840
draining actually is to be a
teacher like you that, you know,

536
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,960
we talk about all the time,
right, That the public

537
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,960
perception of teaching is not it
doesn't really match up, does it

538
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,360
with.
Reality no.

539
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:19,760
And it is unbelievably mentally
draining.

540
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,760
And and it's not like it's just
that though, because like you

541
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,840
just saying there, like it just,
it always makes my blood boil

542
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,960
sometimes because I'm like, I
just can't believe this is still

543
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,640
the state we're in.
Where on top of that, you're

544
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,080
also going home and still having
to do work.

545
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:31,400
Exactly.
That should be the end of it.

546
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,440
It's like you're going home and
you're already completely

547
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,640
exhausted and feeling like, you
know, your your children are

548
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,800
getting that sacrifice.
Like, yeah, because you're just

549
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,000
like, I know I've had a long day
with children all day.

550
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,600
And also I've got to plan more
stuff.

551
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,080
Yeah.
And I think a lot of the stuff

552
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,640
that I felt like I had to do at
home, it wasn't that directly

553
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,480
impacting the children.
And I I got really good at time

554
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,360
management, really good.
You've got to.

555
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,800
Haven't you?
I had to and I was able to do

556
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,760
most of my work at high at
school, sorry, and then come

557
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,920
home.
But there's always going to be

558
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,160
stuff.
There's always stuff that's

559
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,280
going to be need and I work part
time as well.

560
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,000
So I did 4 days and then I went
down to three days.

561
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,400
So that responsibility for the
other member of staff that was

562
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,120
in my class weighed quite heavy
on me and I almost felt like I

563
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:19,680
over planned for those days
because if if I was in the room,

564
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,480
I could adapt and overcome.
Whereas if I was leaving it for

565
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,040
somebody else, I felt like I
needed to make sure that

566
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,080
everything was there.
So I'd be waking up now and most

567
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,560
recently getting my children
ready for school, checking to

568
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,880
make sure all the plans are on
there, making sure that they had

569
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,360
everything they needed, checking
for adoption, making sure the

570
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:38,720
timetable was right on my days
off.

571
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,440
And and then having to plan as
well because you know what

572
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,720
happens in schools?
Somebody goes off sick and you

573
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,640
have to do more planning and
you're picking up the slack.

574
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,360
So yeah, the work life balance
is pretty much nonexistent, even

575
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:54,760
though I was aware that that was
happening and I was trying to

576
00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:01,480
overcome it and really difficult
and if I'm honest, not not worth

577
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,840
the sacrifice because my
children are only little ones as

578
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,520
much.
I'm 100% dedicated to the

579
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,760
children that I teach and lots
of them have kept in touch since

580
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,520
I've left, which is lovely.
But not at the sacrifice of my

581
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,680
own children and my own mental
well-being.

582
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,680
And I think that's really huge.
A big thing, I think that again,

583
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,920
because Joe Public and do you
know what, fair enough to them,

584
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,720
if they're not involved in
teaching ever, of course they're

585
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,440
going to look at our holidays,
they're going to look at the

586
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,680
amount of time off we get.
They're going to see it as, oh,

587
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,400
you're just with the children,
especially primary school

588
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,680
teachers that we are, you're
just colouring in with the kids.

589
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,360
It's like there's a big gap in
understanding of what actually

590
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:37,520
goes on.
But I think the biggest thing

591
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,000
that is just not really
understood unless you've been in

592
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,560
teaching before, going back to
that point you said about part

593
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,120
time, because if you mentioned
you went back to teaching part

594
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,560
time, I can imagine a lot of
people's initial reaction is,

595
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,320
oh, what a jolly, isn't that
lovely?

596
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,040
You know, three days a week,
just pop him out.

597
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:54,280
Yeah, it's insane.
And I know people work hard in

598
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,080
every profession.
And I'm never, ever someone

599
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,440
who's gonna sit here and say,
oh, yeah, teachers have it the

600
00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:59,600
hardest out of everyone in the
world.

601
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,920
But what I just want people to
understand is that when you go

602
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,440
part time as a teacher, and
maybe you can attest to this

603
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,120
with your experience, it's not
as simple as it's just becoming

604
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:11,200
a part time job.
Do you know, I always say that

605
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,440
and I went part time, but I was
doing a full time railway in

606
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,160
part time hours for part time
pay.

607
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,720
Exactly.
And in the seven years that I

608
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,200
was teaching, I did all the
reports, I did all of the

609
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,240
assessment, I did all the data
drops.

610
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,400
I even did all the assessment on
my day so that it was

611
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,640
consistent.
So I was working part time and I

612
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,120
know that's not everyone's
experience.

613
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:35,240
Sometimes you get a gem of a job
share and everything's rosy.

614
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,480
But I think now with the job
that I've moved on to, I've been

615
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,080
travelling around lots of
different schools and it it

616
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,960
seems to be the norm that that
happens, that one teacher tends

617
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,120
to pick up the majority of the
work, which is is not OK and

618
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:50,560
wouldn't happen in any
opportunity.

619
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,160
We've been really, we've been
really lucky with our job

620
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,720
shares.
We've said it loads of times and

621
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,480
we know we're really, really
fortunate because we have had

622
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,720
those gems genuinely.
But even still, I still have

623
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,160
this conversation, relations
with people where I say, even

624
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,760
though I've got an incredible
job share and we genuinely are

625
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,600
able to split, like basically
any physical job does get split.

626
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,440
But I say to people, but I tell
you what I'm not doing is I'm

627
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,120
not.
So I'm 60% as well.

628
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,600
I'm not going home and being
like, I only have to learn 60%

629
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,840
of the kids name.
I only have to worry about the

630
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,960
dangerous 60% of my class.
It's like, no, I still have 100%

631
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,120
of the burden in terms of like
the.

632
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,200
Thought special educational
needs provisions.

633
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,680
EHCP.
You need to know those children

634
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,520
so in depth and you carry that
burden.

635
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,960
And it is that it's that
psychological called burden as

636
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,720
well.
Of at the end of the day, the

637
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,160
reason we're all in teaching and
love this profession is because

638
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,800
we want to help children as much
as possible.

639
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,760
That's the bottom line.
And as a teacher, that mental

640
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,880
load, whether you're in one day
a week or five days a week, is

641
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,120
consistent.
It's a change.

642
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:44,680
You still need to adapt stuff
for your children.

643
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,000
Yeah.
And I think going part time as a

644
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,480
teacher, it saved me from
quitting earlier.

645
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,440
Yes.
So I would have quit much sooner

646
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,400
if I'd stayed full time, no
doubt about that.

647
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,840
But it still gets to the end of
your tether eventually, where I

648
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,280
was part time for 3-4 years.
And I thought, you know what,

649
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:03,680
even still now I want to talk
about how the mental load and

650
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,200
the pay and the recognition and
everything tied in with each

651
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,720
other.
There has to come a point where

652
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,240
you just say myself and my
children and what I've got at

653
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,880
home are going to come first.
Absolutely.

654
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,640
But then my thinking is that I
need to make loads of noise

655
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,400
about this like I have.
I feel like I'm in a position

656
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,760
where I can make change and
that's my whole setup now is

657
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,440
that it's not OK and we need to
speak out about it.

658
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,240
Because if we just go on
pretending that it's OK for new

659
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,880
teachers coming in, nobody's
ever going to get any better.

660
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,280
We're failing the children,
we're failing teachers and we

661
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,360
need to stand up and say.
In terms of that, something I

662
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:41,360
think will we'll come into more
detail about what what you're

663
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,840
doing now, because I think it's
a really good example of how we

664
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,200
can still help kids
fundamentally because that's

665
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,440
what we care about.
And I don't think leaving

666
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,640
teaching necessarily means you
suddenly just throw that in.

667
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,400
No, we're still going to be in
education.

668
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,920
We're still going to be working
to give children better

669
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,200
outcomes.
But I just, I just quickly

670
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,800
wanted to come back to something
Hayden mentioned the other day,

671
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,080
which is that idea of part time
work and the financial strain.

672
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,440
Yeah.
So, you know, we, you know,

673
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,560
we've got ideas of what we're
going to be doing after

674
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,360
teaching, you've got your role,
etcetera.

675
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,600
But that financial strain for a
lot of people is stopping them

676
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,280
from kind of coming out of
teaching in general and trying

677
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,200
to find a job that's on a
similar wage, etc, and having

678
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,800
those transferable skills or
even dropping part time.

679
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,440
Yeah.
What, what would you say to

680
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,800
someone who's kind of in that
situation of I, I want to give

681
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,520
it a go, but I just don't feel
like I can financially?

682
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,720
I had all of those fears.
I think it's terrifying because

683
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,880
it's such a regular.
I mean, I was going back when we

684
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,600
were local authority and so
getting that, that payment every

685
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,520
month from the local authority
felt really secure and really

686
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,080
safe.
And, and speaking about my

687
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,320
family, we, we all had that.
We were, we were all employed.

688
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,320
And when I was dancing, I was
self-employed.

689
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,280
And that's one of the reasons
that I trained as a teacher

690
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,600
because I couldn't handle the
self-employed nature of not

691
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,840
knowing where my contracts were
coming from.

692
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:03,640
But we got to the point, my
husband and I, and he is an

693
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,800
assistant head teacher.
So he's in the same education

694
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,440
industry and we sat down and we
said, can we imagine ourselves

695
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,360
doing this when we're in our
60s?

696
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:18,160
Because realistically he, our
pension age is going up, up, up,

697
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,120
up and up.
And he'll, I'm, I'm no doubt we

698
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:23,360
probably won't even have a
pension, but that's why we get

699
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:24,800
into that not.
Such thing as retirement in.

700
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,360
2015 Will he be able to teach?
Will I be able to teach?

701
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,760
Is this what we want our life to
look like?

702
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,640
We've got two young children.
We want to obviously give them

703
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,640
the best possible life.
So one of us had to make a

704
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,280
change.
And I had a vision and I had an

705
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,280
idea.
And luckily he's very supportive

706
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,560
and he said, you go for it, you
go part time, we'll see if we

707
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,160
can make this work.
So I did like a transition and I

708
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,600
did part time teaching while
doing my business on the side.

709
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,240
And then I got to the point
where I could eventually take

710
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,320
that leap.
But it's terrifying, really

711
00:27:58,360 --> 00:27:59,920
scary.
So I can understand how

712
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:04,040
everybody feels, but I do think
you have to look at yourself in

713
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,240
10 years and think, is this
where I want to be?

714
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,960
I'm I also got bored of
listening to myself self mine I

715
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,640
was my.
We feel listening to the

716
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,240
podcast.
Honestly, my fellow teachers at

717
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,160
my old school will attest to the
fact that I wasn't quiet.

718
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,200
I was the loudest in the South
meetings.

719
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,880
I was the one that raised
concerns.

720
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:26,360
I was the one on the picket
line.

721
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:30,880
Yeah, when the strikes were on.
Because I feel like we have to

722
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,480
make ourselves a nuisance to be
able to be heard.

723
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,320
And that's really important.
And I'm willing to be the voice

724
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,760
of CAN.
I pick up on that quick.

725
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,560
Yeah, because we we, you've
listened to the podcast people

726
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:42,800
listening at home.
I'm sure we'll know.

727
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,880
We're not afraid to talk about
the things that we think are

728
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,480
broken.
And it comes from a place of

729
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,240
care and love.
And I must say, last week when

730
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,600
we spoke about leaving, we got
so many messages.

731
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,760
We have a huge core of listeners
who are ECT's who are just

732
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,040
starting out.
And I know for a fact Hayden and

733
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,400
I carry this burden.
Don't we of are we scaring

734
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:01,480
people away from this
profession?

735
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,840
Yeah.
And I think, I don't know, but

736
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,480
maybe you can add to this is we
want to strike that balance,

737
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,120
don't we?
Well, someone actually messaged

738
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,120
me privately because, you know,
I've actually got my own account

739
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,920
now.
So people do message me as well.

740
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,920
Bypass me now.
Yeah, they're just normal work

741
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,000
for the podcast.
They say, I'm so glad you got an

742
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,960
account.
So I don't know every Dylan.

743
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,280
It's like, don't worry, he
wasn't checking anyway.

744
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,400
All right, it's OK.
Someone did message me though,

745
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,680
and and they're actually even
one step before an ECT.

746
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,560
They're just about to start
training and what was really

747
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,480
nice and this was in like in
response to our episode last

748
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,480
week about quitting teaching is
they actively said that they

749
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,280
weren't put off.
They said thank you for doing

750
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,600
this because like it's really
good to know what what we're

751
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,560
getting into.
I'm training next year.

752
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,120
The message didn't say thank you
for this.

753
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:41,440
No, good to know what I'm
getting into.

754
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:42,760
So I've just pulled out of my
class.

755
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,400
I'm going to go be a quantity
surveyor.

756
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,240
See you later.
Cheers, guys.

757
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,440
But they didn't say that.
And and I'm I'm kind of glad

758
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,600
that.
Because we still need teaching.

759
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,680
100% and I would still be
teaching if all of the things

760
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,120
that I'm fighting for now had
been fixed by someone else, I

761
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,440
would still be teaching because
the actual teaching is a bit

762
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,600
that I love.
It's everything else which I'm

763
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,800
trying to change and the
direction that and the focus is

764
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,360
that we're putting on education
is, is what I'm trying to

765
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,760
change.
So I would still be teaching and

766
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,680
I really am hesitant.
I know it's really hard, but to

767
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,760
say you're quitting feels like
you're making a choice to walk

768
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,880
away.
And that decision was so

769
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,240
incredibly hard for me, which
I'm sure it was for you.

770
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,560
And I debated it for months and
months and months, and the

771
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,200
children were always at the end.
And that sounds really nice.

772
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,080
But.
The children were always at the

773
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,080
centre of it, but I felt like if
I didn't leave and make a stand

774
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,080
and start to do some of the
changes that I'm talking about,

775
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,440
then I I'm doing them a
disservice.

776
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,960
So yeah, that was my decision.
But I can imagine that it's

777
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,080
quite scary when you're looking
in an industry.

778
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:51,000
But I feel like that was the the
position we were in 10 years

779
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,440
ago.
It was starting to evolve into

780
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,200
this industry that we see now.
So the beginnings of the

781
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,400
markings were there and it
didn't put me off and I was very

782
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,400
fresh and I felt like I could be
the change.

783
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:03,760
We're going to change the
machine.

784
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,240
How much?
Can you change in your full

785
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,640
walls of your classroom?
You can be the most fantastic

786
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,960
and I've seen amazing teachers
in their four walls, but without

787
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,240
somebody stepping out and saying
this is what needs to happen,

788
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,680
we're going to be in the same
position in 10 years.

789
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,880
Once that honeymoon period's
over, a. 100% Well actually your

790
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,800
tricky.
Class, you're in the real world

791
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,760
almost like the buzz is over and
you're like, hang on a minute.

792
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,640
You start to appreciate maybe
some of the things that people

793
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,360
were telling you.
I remember being I remember

794
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,560
being my first year of teaching.
There'll be some much more

795
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,600
experienced wise staff saying
things.

796
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,800
We're having a gripe with
certain things.

797
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,080
And I remember literally
thinking like somebody.

798
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,080
It's fine for my class that.
Sounds like a great thing to do.

799
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,320
I'll happily go home tonight and
and work until 10:00 PM because

800
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,240
that's what we do as teachers
And I have that kind of martyr

801
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,120
attitude.
And then you kind of you kind of

802
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,560
develop out of that zone that
you're tired.

803
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,080
Isn't it of this is how we do
it, This is what you're supposed

804
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,280
to sacrifice is drilled into us.
But in no other industry is that

805
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,320
expected or required.
So I think there really needs to

806
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,640
be.
And I think it's starting like

807
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,160
some of the comments that I see
on your blog past, it's starting

808
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,000
to shift and people, younger
teachers are saying, no,

809
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,600
actually, this is not OK.
And I love the Tik Toks where

810
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,760
they leave at like 340 and
they've gone for a walk.

811
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,200
Absolutely brilliant.
Because you shouldn't have to be

812
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,440
trained to your desk until 6:30.
And I've seen burnout where

813
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,800
they've done that, and it's not
OK and it's not right, and it

814
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,160
doesn't have any direct impact
on the children.

815
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,360
Yeah, she's really sad.
And and the shame is you look at

816
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,040
those TikTok videos, you look at
the comments.

817
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,000
Oh, I know so much hate,
absolutely so much hate.

818
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,040
It's like people are like, no,
we must race to the bottom.

819
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,880
We have to race to the bottom.
You know, we talk about that a

820
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,200
lot in in our culture, but I
wanna go back to just think

821
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,000
about you leaving right.
You said there was lots of

822
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,600
factors that kind of built up
over time.

823
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,120
If it's a big question, but if,
if you could change like what

824
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,760
would be the one thing that was
most likely because you said

825
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,280
you'd love to have stayed in
this game if people had fixed it

826
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,040
from the sort of top down, I
guess is what you're hinting at.

827
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,400
What would be the thing that
you'd be like, they need to work

828
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,200
on this first because obviously
there's loads of things that

829
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,880
need fixing.
But what would be the thing that

830
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,760
would be most likely where you'd
be like, OK, if they started

831
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,080
changing this, I might think I
might have thought about staying

832
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,480
in the classroom.
For me, it was trust.

833
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,760
Trust me to do my job.
Trust me to know my children.

834
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,480
I don't need to produce 20
reports for you to know that I

835
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,480
know my my children.
I know them inside out, I know

836
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,320
what they need to do next.
Gap analysis.

837
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,840
Wonderful, very useful, but do I
need it?

838
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,240
3 * A term on things that they
haven't, I haven't taught them

839
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,280
yet.
I don't think so.

840
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,040
My time is better spent creating
resources or helping the

841
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,280
children that need help in my
class.

842
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,040
That would be a huge thing, I
think.

843
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,640
Trust me to do my job.
And the other thing is huge.

844
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,800
But support for SEND children,
pupils of SEND, I don't know

845
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,880
what's happened, I don't know
where it's gone wrong.

846
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,800
There's probably lots of factors
of where it's gone wrong.

847
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,080
But if they're in my classroom
and I'm on my own and we're

848
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,840
stripping back, stripping back
resources, stripping back staff,

849
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,400
stripping back everything and
leaving me in a room with

850
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,239
children that I can't meet their
needs, there's something wrong.

851
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,320
It's devastating.
Isn't.

852
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,080
It's not through lack of trying
either.

853
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:12,719
It's.
Not through lack of skill.

854
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:13,520
Exactly.
We're not.

855
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,679
We can do it, but we need to
have the actual things in

856
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,320
supposed to be able to.
It's like being annoyed at a

857
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,760
professional Archer if they've
left their Longbow at home.

858
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,800
Absolutely.
I'm they'd be great at doing

859
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,800
this right now, but I can't do
it because I don't have my bow

860
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:27,920
and arrow in.
Front of me.

861
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,440
What an example.
But you screwing that for.

862
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,480
A while surgeon, yes.
Surgeon expecting to operate and

863
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,199
they've got no scalp.
No Longbow, yes.

864
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,360
Mad, isn't it?
My surgeon doesn't often carry

865
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,840
along, I don't think.
Yeah, I just, I, I felt like I

866
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,679
was failing not only those
pupils of SEND, but I was

867
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:47,400
failing the ones that were sat
at the back where they'd become

868
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:53,880
so used to disruption and so
used to quite dangerous learning

869
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,199
conditions that they were
totally immune to it.

870
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,560
And if you ask them at the end
of the day or said to them, oh,

871
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,080
like, gosh, that was that was a
bit of a day.

872
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,600
Like a teacher voice on there,
but that was a bit of a day.

873
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,000
How like, are you OK?
How do you feel they would go?

874
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,560
Well, I don't know what
happened.

875
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,320
And that to me was really sad.
I thought, no, that's not how we

876
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,080
should be learning.
I failed not only the pupil who

877
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,360
was desperately trying to
regulate themselves.

878
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,600
I failed every single other
people in there.

879
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,720
And I found that really
difficult.

880
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:23,720
Isn't.
That such a horrible thing

881
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:24,960
though that we feel like that
horrible.

882
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,280
I you said that I failed like it
was it was all your fault.

883
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,920
But that's how people feel 100%
is like, oh, I failed.

884
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,240
Yeah, because I, because I
didn't martyr myself for that,

885
00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:36,080
just that extra hour I could do
this thing or I failed because I

886
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,440
couldn't literally physically
meet their needs.

887
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,160
You know, the whole Longbow
example is like, I can't even do

888
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,560
it.
Anyway, come back to the

889
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:40,960
Longbow.
Forget.

890
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,440
About the Longbow is.
Here to stay.

891
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,000
But it's so true because I think
this is what we carry with those

892
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,320
all the time.
And this is where I struggled

893
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,040
with the idea of quitting, like
you said, because to me it's

894
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,440
it's it's catch 22 because I
stay in the job and I feel bad

895
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,760
that I just can't physically
meet the needs of all these

896
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,320
children.
And I feel like the whole class

897
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,840
is a bit because of it.
But then if I feel like if I

898
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,200
walk away, I'm kind of throwing
in the towel.

899
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,080
So I guess where I want to talk
to you now, Sophie, about your

900
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,400
journey leaving teaching.
And you've kind of alluded to

901
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,240
this fact that you still want to
carry on this idea of helping as

902
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:16,640
many children as you can.
And this idea I've got that I'm

903
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,160
kind of going through right now,
having decided to quit and

904
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,240
having these ideas for the
future that we're going to work

905
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:24,640
on, How do you redefine your
purpose now?

906
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,360
Because like you said, we sat
down before we've all quit

907
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,280
teaching at this point, You
know, we've got the rest of the

908
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,440
year, but we still sit here and
say, Oh yeah, I'm a teacher.

909
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,520
100% I said it today, didn't I
was like, what do you do?

910
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,880
I'm a teacher.
It it becomes your whole

911
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,520
personality.
So I have, it has been hard, but

912
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,600
I think the I will always be a
teacher.

913
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,280
I will always try and keep my
hands in teaching and I run a

914
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,920
really lovely little study group
from my daughter who struggles

915
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,080
with math.
So all her friends come back on

916
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,920
a Wednesday evening and it's
really lovely.

917
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,920
They come back and I do some
targeted teaching.

918
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,360
So I will always have that part
of me.

919
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,400
But my fight is better fought
from a different position, and

920
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,840
that position is that I can get
to the key players and I can get

921
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,000
to the people that I didn't have
access to as a teacher that I

922
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,800
now suddenly do have access this
to through business to try and

923
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,920
make the changes that I would
have liked to have seen in the

924
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,440
classroom.
I think a huge, a huge amount of

925
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,840
people listening to this now
after I was talking last week

926
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,120
about quitting and the amount of
messages I got of people saying,

927
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,320
yeah, I kind, I want to do that
too, but what can I do next?

928
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,120
And I love the kids and I want
to make a difference.

929
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,480
So I'm really interested now
into how you're doing this with

930
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,800
your business and the way you're
going into actually not just

931
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,920
helping the 32 children in your
class anymore.

932
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,520
And it's not like you've lost
these 32 children suddenly.

933
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,320
You're trying to help thousands
now.

934
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:44,840
So what?
What is your journey looking

935
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,360
like now?
So when my son started school,

936
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,360
he's 6 now, I had two days a
week where I had time on my

937
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,920
hands, which is really unusual.
And I started to think of about

938
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,600
my role as a teacher and how we
were, I was in year 3 at the

939
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,280
time, we were continually trying
to get children to be able to

940
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,920
read and we were sending my year
threes down to phonics.

941
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,000
And I kept thinking about it
and, and it never really sat

942
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,880
right with me that I was sending
a year free child down to the

943
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,320
year 1 or even reception to try
and get them to read.

944
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,160
And I felt like if we got the
fundamentals right, I sat in

945
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,600
many, many a raising standards
meeting where I just felt like

946
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,560
if we got it right on the
downstairs level, the early

947
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,480
years and the year one, that we
wouldn't have that impact.

948
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,400
And I'm sure he's sitting there
as year 16.

949
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:37,040
Yes, you understand, we, we tend
to as a society, leave things

950
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,280
until they become a loud problem
instead of listening to the

951
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,720
buzzing that starts much, much
further down.

952
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:44,040
So.
That's a much better analogy

953
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,160
than the long but.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good.

954
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,640
I started I need to brainstorm
my ideas about ways that we

955
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,920
could intervene, particularly in
reading because that's where my

956
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,960
skill set was earlier, to ensure
that children made progress when

957
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:02,560
they when they needed to and
that they had resources because

958
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,960
that's a huge thing.
There's no money in the budget.

959
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,800
We're cutting Tasmania, we're
cutting resources that we need.

960
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,720
We're having to use rubbish
prick sticks instead of proper

961
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:12,920
prick sticks.
That's the real reason I left.

962
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:14,800
Everything.
Flying out of the book.

963
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:21,000
So I started to play around with
the idea of a reading assessment

964
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,720
and reading record that had a
whole host of ebooks attached to

965
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:29,360
it to give teachers back time
because that was obviously huge

966
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,360
to me.
I moderated for a while and when

967
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:37,560
I was going into schools I found
that maths had amazing evidence

968
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,120
and writing obviously had
wonderful evidence.

969
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,400
But reading, we was always
pulling together scraps of notes

970
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,640
from Tasmania and post it notes
and home records that mum's are

971
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,600
scribbled in and I'm really
guilty of this.

972
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,680
I write read well and I'm a
teacher and now I've got a

973
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,080
reading company, but I still
write Redwell.

974
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,600
And you're trying to pull
together evidence and the only

975
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,560
real evidence is listening to
the child read.

976
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,000
So I had all these ideas and
then I have an amazing team who

977
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,000
I was lucky enough to partner
with and we created a company

978
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,480
called Storyzoo, which is a
digital reading record with over

979
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,160
700 ebooks and.
They are incredible images that

980
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,600
the children are likely to have
seen, more akin to all of the

981
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,280
games that they play when they
go home.

982
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,600
Because I feel like we're
battling that as well.

983
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,040
And that's another thing.
Attention span, Absolutely.

984
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,320
It's huge because we're
scrolling and the children are

985
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,800
seeing such amazing graphics and
then we're giving them an old

986
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,520
copy of the books that we've got
in the library.

987
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,000
Books that I read when I was.
Silly.

988
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,160
Yeah.
So it's, it's really, it's been

989
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,880
an amazing journey so far.
We're still pretty young in our

990
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,840
journey, but I built it as a
stepping stone for children to

991
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,960
get that love of reading.
It's a really key, I don't know

992
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,080
if you've seen the, the
statistics that have come from

993
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,840
the natural national literacy
channels.

994
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,680
Really sad.
And one in three children have

995
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,960
access to books, really sad.
So to try and combat that,

996
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,840
obviously I'd love every child
to go and pick up a classic and

997
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,800
start reading it, but I think we
need to bridge that.

998
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,920
And that was where my idea came
from.

999
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,520
So yeah, Storyzoo is my new
baby.

1000
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,800
I think on that, yeah, the
impact it can have is huge.

1001
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,280
And I think there is sometimes a
little bit of snobbery.

1002
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,800
I don't know if you get this
this impression too from people

1003
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,640
who, if a child doesn't like to
read or doesn't read and then

1004
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,480
won't pick up a traditional
book, you know it's in front of

1005
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,600
them and read it in a, in a
situation where they've gone to

1006
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,160
the school library, OK, this
book's in your band, whatever

1007
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,680
and here it is, take it home and
read it.

1008
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,120
That child, 15 books later,
still doesn't like and enjoy

1009
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,280
reading.
Why are we doing the same thing

1010
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,160
in year 2 and then in year 3 and
then in year 4 wondering why

1011
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,160
they can't read properly?
We've got to meet children where

1012
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,960
they are.
And if we talk about reading for

1013
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,720
enjoyment, that's not just like
this.

1014
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,040
There's lots of children out
there who don't enjoy maths.

1015
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,160
We don't have this buzzword
maths for enjoyment, so I'm

1016
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:07,280
completely for reading for
enjoyment, now for enjoyment and

1017
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,920
archery for enjoyment.
But what my point here is we we

1018
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,520
know how important reading is,
so take every win you can.

1019
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,920
It would take.
Away to everything, isn't it?

1020
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,440
Yeah, and I had, there's a lot
of children where they couldn't

1021
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,920
access the afternoon curriculum
and that's where children shine.

1022
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,040
And science, technology, all of
those wonderful subjects that we

1023
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,360
really want them to access, even
down to like art history, I'm

1024
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,160
teaching art, but how wonderful
if they could learn about an

1025
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,800
artist.
But you can't access that if you

1026
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,680
can't read.
And that's really where I

1027
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,200
started my journey.
Because if we don't target that

1028
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,520
and open up the enjoyment, and
like you say, why would we judge

1029
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,760
what we don't judge adults for?
That, they read.

1030
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,360
Why don't we?
I can't, no.

1031
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:55,760
Why would we judge children?
We just want to get them

1032
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,040
reading.
So exactly what you say.

1033
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,320
We meet them where they are, we
give them resources and books

1034
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,880
that are akin to what they're
seeing every day.

1035
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,160
And then hopefully we inspire
those children to then go and

1036
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,800
read the classics.
Yeah, exactly.

1037
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,720
One thing that piqued my
interest as well with this, with

1038
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:11,560
the whole idea in the business,
I think it's fascinating by the

1039
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,320
way, is the e-book side of
things, right?

1040
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:14,960
Yes.
And I, I'm presuming the idea is

1041
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,160
it will just continually expand
this library that you keep

1042
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,680
going, right.
Yeah, I can think of children as

1043
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,120
a year 6 teacher as well.
So even just with my hat on kind

1044
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,840
of the other end of the school,
I can think of children right

1045
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,920
now in this class, previous
class, you know, my through my

1046
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,360
whole career who have run out of
books in the school library.

1047
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,840
They've run out of books because
whatever, you know, Dennis has

1048
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,520
bands, whatever level, whatever
the school does to to help

1049
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,240
children get the sort of right
ability book for them.

1050
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:39,880
There are children that have run
out.

1051
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,840
And every single year in my
career, I've seen children run

1052
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,240
out of books because they're
like, oh, I've read everything

1053
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:44,560
in this band.
I don't know what to do now.

1054
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,280
And to the idea that, that, that
I, I always feel like lost with

1055
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,320
that because I'm like, oh, I
don't know what, I don't know

1056
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:51,680
what to do.
But the idea of them being,

1057
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:53,960
being like, oh, I can just log
in and I can find something that

1058
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,160
I like.
And oh, there's, there's a new

1059
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:56,240
book added this week or
whatever.

1060
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,080
And actually having more stuff
to read.

1061
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,000
And it was hugely important to
me that, and it is hugely

1062
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,840
important to my message that we
never want to stop children

1063
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,560
reading physical books.
That is the the North Star.

1064
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,280
That's what we want them to be
able to do.

1065
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,320
But to get to that point, if a
child is on an iPad or on a

1066
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,520
device that we'd rather than
reading than watching YouTube,

1067
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,800
My own children, no judgement,
my own children is a time and a

1068
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,480
place.
But could I get them reading?

1069
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,440
Absolutely.
So I will swap one for the other

1070
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,440
and then we're benefiting.
So I always want to make it

1071
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,280
really clear that as a teacher,
obviously I want children to

1072
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,080
read physical books.
That's all I want.

1073
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,800
But to get them to that point,
what we're doing at the moment

1074
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,720
clearly isn't working.
So we have to change our dynamic

1075
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,440
and we have to change our
direction.

1076
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,200
What impact are you finding then
already you know?

1077
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:46,400
Huge.
Yeah.

1078
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,080
It's had really good results.
So we've worked really closely

1079
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,080
with our first set of schools
that we've gone into.

1080
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,960
Enjoyment is up, attainment is
up, and all the comprehension

1081
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,960
quizzes.
I obviously, being a teacher,

1082
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,240
have written to the reading
domain so you can have it, an

1083
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:05,440
actual view that the children
are making progress and then use

1084
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,160
that to inform.
Because I think guided reading's

1085
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,200
always been a bit of an iffy
subject.

1086
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,880
Do you do a carousel?
Do you do?

1087
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:11,960
A whole.
Class reading or.

1088
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:13,200
Something.
There's no one answer.

1089
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,080
There's no Is there?
And I think class to class, my

1090
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,200
experience has changed.
I've had classes where they

1091
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:19,960
would sit beautifully doing a
carousel.

1092
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,360
I've had classes where I
couldn't even look down at my

1093
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,440
book and look back up before
there was Carlage going up.

1094
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:27,640
But.
That's realistic.

1095
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:28,160
Isn't it?
Yeah.

1096
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,440
And so I think that you have to,
and hopefully people listening

1097
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,360
are in a school where they let
them adapt, but not always you,

1098
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,160
you have to follow what is given
to you.

1099
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,920
So we had huge success in the
fact that one of our carousel

1100
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,160
groups could be on Storyzoo and
it was a wonderful incentive

1101
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,840
that actually next time you
read, you're going to read with

1102
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,400
me, but the week after you're
going to read with Storyzoo and

1103
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:53,000
and you're going to collect your
coins.

1104
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,840
So we've had really good results
with entertainment, as I said,

1105
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:02,200
and engagement, but also the,
the little quotes that we get

1106
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,200
from the kids and the enjoyment
from the kids is amazing.

1107
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,920
It's really what keeps me going.
And on the flip side, the

1108
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,720
teachers are loving it because
it gives them so much time back.

1109
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:14,080
You haven't got to worry about
any assessment.

1110
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,600
You can get a lovely graph to
show SLT.

1111
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,240
They can see an overview.
We've got trust overview.

1112
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,520
It really takes a whole lot of
pressure out.

1113
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,160
You haven't got a sign reading
records, your TA hasn't got to

1114
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,840
go out and honestly and sign the
yellow books honestly or change.

1115
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,240
And they haven't got.
Half of them haven't got.

1116
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,920
Exactly.
The drinks leaked at the bottom

1117
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,120
of the bag and it's drying on
the radiator.

1118
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,640
We've all been there.
But because as well, I found in

1119
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,000
my experience in talking to like
the development group of

1120
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,600
teachers that we we used when we
were developing Story Zoo, is

1121
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,960
that TA's roles have changed as
well.

1122
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:53,040
And typically when I was young,
the TA would read with children

1123
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,480
1:00 to 1:00 and they would go
out and change the books.

1124
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,760
And that's completely changed.
If your TA hasn't been deployed

1125
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,200
correctly, we all know that
that's going to be on your

1126
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,160
lesson observation.
So their roles change.

1127
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,960
I think it's brilliant.
And at the end of their right,

1128
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,440
who knows this, he'll laugh.
I'm a hard sell when it comes to

1129
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,160
like using new things in
schools, right?

1130
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,920
So to me, right, if I was there
and I'm giving stories of a go

1131
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,200
right.
And we all know I'm going to

1132
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,120
pretend that teachers have loads
of time and can sit there and

1133
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,080
have like an hour of development
a week where they get to try all

1134
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,680
new software.
People just want to know like,

1135
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,040
OK, this is good.
What's it going to do for me?

1136
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,600
Can I use it right now, right
with my data head on?

1137
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,040
Because again, I can't escape
your sex.

1138
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,520
I'm really sorry.
What sort of analysis?

1139
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,520
Because you you kind of glossed
over analysis and like you sort

1140
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:32,560
of pricked my ears up at that
point.

1141
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,440
I was thinking, you know,
leaders of stories, I don't know

1142
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:37,640
what I can track, what I can
see.

1143
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:39,040
So like what, what kind of
things?

1144
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,440
Because I presume with it being
ebooks, we can we can see a lot

1145
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:43,880
about.
Me thinking enjoyment, yeah.

1146
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,920
Numbers get away from enjoyment.
How can I prove to my bosses

1147
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,840
that the numbers are going?
About.

1148
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,640
Schools need both.
It is that, isn't it?

1149
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,640
And it's finding that balance.
So for me, I always wanted the

1150
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,840
children to never know that they
would be an assessed.

1151
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:57,200
Right.
Yeah.

1152
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:00,040
Everything looks the same.
Everything's really friendly and

1153
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,320
cheery, and you just happen to
be answering questions.

1154
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,440
Yeah, from a teacher's side, you
can see how how many of each

1155
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,480
reading domain that child is
getting correct.

1156
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,560
You can see their reading speed.
You can see how long they've

1157
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,320
spent reading on a book, which
tells you a huge amount in

1158
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,040
development.
We could see the average reading

1159
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,480
speeds and we can adjust those.
And then you can get a whole

1160
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,000
school overview.
So it comes down to you can have

1161
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,200
like inter and school
competitions, which is always

1162
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,080
great.
And so you can pitch your year

1163
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,240
six classes against each other
and see who can read the most

1164
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:36,200
nice.
And so you can get a whole, a

1165
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,600
whole overview of where the
child at is at attainment wise,

1166
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,480
but also in a more holistic
view.

1167
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:44,520
You can see their book trends
and what books they're choosing

1168
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,760
to read because they have access
to all of the books in their

1169
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,480
library for their, for their
reading band that you as a

1170
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,480
teacher have set.
You can see this, you can start

1171
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,560
to see the trends.
And like you said, the the child

1172
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,560
that reads 15 books and still
doesn't enjoy reading.

1173
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,880
I feel like that's maybe on me
as a teacher, that I haven't

1174
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,600
exposed them to the right text
that they need to find.

1175
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,200
But isn't that, don't you think
that's part of the reason why

1176
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,080
teachers burn out and end up
thinking like they need to

1177
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:10,000
leave?
Because that's.

1178
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:11,360
Your point?
Yeah.

1179
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,200
What I love about this?
Story.

1180
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,160
How to do that?
Honestly, because what I love

1181
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,800
about your story is you
identified earlier on about how

1182
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,400
your expertise and passion was
reading.

1183
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:22,120
Yeah.
And as a primary school teacher,

1184
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,160
I find myself being spread so
thinly that I need to become an

1185
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,920
expert in how geography check
goes across the year 2345 and

1186
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,040
how all the skills are.
Yeah, I'm not being funny.

1187
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,960
And I can say this now.
I don't really care enough

1188
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,080
about.
I simply am not involved enough.

1189
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,680
It has.
No impact on the children.

1190
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,920
Wherever you know does it.
That's the key, boxing.

1191
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:42,840
Exactly.
And there's someone out there

1192
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,320
who is Jogfly expert who will
say that.

1193
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,240
And you know what I'm saying?
All power to you.

1194
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:48,760
Help me out here.
Make something for me.

1195
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,120
And having left the classroom,
it sounds like you can really

1196
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:53,880
narrow down on what your
expertise is.

1197
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,880
You're passionate about reading.
Absolutely.

1198
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,680
And you can impact so many
children through what you're

1199
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,840
doing right now in a way where
you don't need to worry about 57

1200
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,840
other things.
You can just do this one thing

1201
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:05,520
really well.
Yeah.

1202
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,960
I need to know, you know, if
you're a type B teacher because

1203
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,400
it feels like like we're Type B
teachers, you know, ones where

1204
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:11,760
we're just scatting.
We're just, you know, just we'll

1205
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:12,840
forget the impression.
Yeah.

1206
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:14,720
Oh, no.
But like, it sounds like you're

1207
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:16,480
building it for us.
Do you know what I?

1208
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,560
Mean Yeah, I'm building it for
myself.

1209
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,520
I am the type of teacher that
has scribbled something on a

1210
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:22,640
piece of paper.
OK, good.

1211
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,160
And he's looking through my desk
drawer trying to find it.

1212
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,080
I can picture it.
I know it's there.

1213
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:32,320
But I feel like that, that
really I honed during my years

1214
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,080
as teaching that I, I cut out
the bits that were unnecessary

1215
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,440
and I did the bits that had a
direct impact or either on

1216
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,960
myself or on the children.
And I waited.

1217
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,840
And I had this really good skill
that I perfected over the years.

1218
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,320
I waited until I needed to do
something or it was being asked

1219
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:55,440
of me before I did it because
otherwise I was writing things

1220
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,280
and writing reports that never
got read or never needed.

1221
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,560
Or I was creating, like you say,
curriculum progression documents

1222
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,640
that nobody ever looked at.
Or by the time I'd written it,

1223
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,400
something else had come out in
the news that I had to do.

1224
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,600
And I really quickly learned
that I could prioritise and I

1225
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:13,840
could push those jobs to the
side.

1226
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,840
And I think for Ects in QTS,
it's really important that you

1227
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,280
learn that early on, that not
everything is urgent and the

1228
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,320
things in the classroom are much
more important than anything

1229
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,080
else that's going on, except if
it's sports day and you've

1230
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:32,120
forgotten which has happened.
You have basically summarised 1

1231
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,280
of what I think is one of the
worst traits of teachers in the

1232
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,040
in the whole profession, right?
Is that whole concept of rushing

1233
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,960
into a new thing, let's do all
this stuff, realising that we

1234
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,840
didn't need to do half the
stuff, but we've already done

1235
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,120
it.
And then you, and then you

1236
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,840
change your mind, you do things
and you just think, oh, if only

1237
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,360
if I just waited maybe a month
and didn't do all this stuff in

1238
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,080
six months in advance, I might
have not had to do that.

1239
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,960
And, and I feel like I get
penalised for doing that some.

1240
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,160
So I feel like people will look
negatively upon me because I do

1241
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,160
exactly the same as that.
Yeah, like I'll just leave

1242
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,480
something and if it needs, if it
really needs being really needs

1243
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,280
doing, I'll, I'll do it sort of
close to teach.

1244
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,720
You I have to teach a lesson
then and I think.

1245
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,440
You just think, you never know.
The kids might not enough.

1246
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,760
The kids might not.
They always do.

1247
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,320
I know you want your treats in
the staff roommate, but.

1248
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:15,440
You do have to be a teacher
there.

1249
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,840
No, I I think that's really,
really important.

1250
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,280
And I think that's where a lot
of the burnout comes from.

1251
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,000
And a lot of the teachers,
really good teachers that I've

1252
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,720
seen, burnout has come from that
fact that they are trying to do

1253
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:28,680
everything to the best of their
ability.

1254
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,760
And I really quickly learned
that I couldn't do that.

1255
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,240
I needed to prioritise where my
attention and where my effort

1256
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:37,120
went.
Yeah definitely got really good

1257
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:38,680
at that if anyone needs any
advice.

1258
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,520
I I think story zoo going back
to that is a really, really

1259
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,520
exciting way.
Thank you to help particularly

1260
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,000
people like me.
I kind of wish I had this

1261
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,480
annoyingly not.
You know the point, The point

1262
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,320
where I stopped teaching maybe
like 10 years ago that.

1263
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,720
Would I'll give you a freeway
trial.

1264
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:56,600
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
But but like, yeah, I think I'll

1265
00:52:56,720 --> 00:52:59,520
struggle to wait till day, the
day that I've stopped, and then

1266
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:00,880
I'll take that and I'll be like,
oh, that, that.

1267
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,600
Would be really really imaginary
class really well.

1268
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's so I
saw it was I was having a quick

1269
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:06,680
look for the website before we
started.

1270
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,240
So there's there's like a when I
got hooked on this bit dinner

1271
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:11,120
laugh at me again because I got
hooked on the fact that I can

1272
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:12,720
have a little I have a little
zoo as well, so.

1273
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:14,240
Tell.
Me a bit more about this.

1274
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:19,560
So huge thing and especially for
my Co founder Ben, who his

1275
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,240
children are pupils will be
pupils with SEND.

1276
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:23,600
They're very little at the
moment.

1277
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:27,400
But for the all the children
that I've ever taught who have

1278
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,040
been put in the corner with a
book and that's their lesson

1279
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:31,760
because they can't access the
lesson.

1280
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:36,560
It was really important to us
that we had a comprehensive set

1281
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,360
of features for pupils with
SEND, so you can change the

1282
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:45,680
overlay of all the books in the
library, not just one tiny piece

1283
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,440
of plastic that somebody's found
at the back of the cupboard.

1284
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,960
To help.
That portion who knows how to

1285
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:53,320
find out if.
It's the right colour.

1286
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,480
We just Chuck a colour at them,
bless them.

1287
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,280
And so you can change the
overlay, you can change the

1288
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,800
font, you can change the size.
And then also that gamification

1289
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,560
was really important to me, that
it was kept restricted enough

1290
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,480
that children went on there to
read.

1291
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,240
Because I know there's loads of
programmes out there where I

1292
00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:13,160
send children home to do
homework.

1293
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,800
They've played the games, they
come back and I say, so if you

1294
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,280
learn that spelling rule and
they go, what spelling rule?

1295
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,760
I've got 100.
I'm thinking, do you know how to

1296
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:27,440
spell that word Can.
You spell. 109 So the gamer for

1297
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,600
I wanted to make sure from a
teacher point of view was

1298
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,640
restricted enough that I knew
that they were going on there

1299
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:37,920
for a purpose, but fun enough
for all those pupils and all

1300
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:42,600
pupils, but especially ADHD ASD,
those children that get hooked

1301
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,440
on things to make sure that they
had enough.

1302
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:50,080
So the zoo really reminds me of
like a Zoo Tycoon that I used to

1303
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,520
play on the PC if you're old
enough to remember.

1304
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,200
That I remember you telling me a
story about someone who got 100

1305
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:56,600
capybaras.
Thank you.

1306
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,400
Yeah.
I think they're still connecting

1307
00:54:58,560 --> 00:54:59,520
to this day.
I'm sorry.

1308
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:02,880
So obviously, Kathy Paras, any
teachers out there?

1309
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:04,400
They're really hot.
Yeah.

1310
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,880
And yeah, 100, Kathy, Paras and
I think they're all called Dave,

1311
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,920
which is really funny.
I've got one thing I wanted to

1312
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:12,280
ask.
Could you get some longbows and

1313
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:16,240
some action?
Yeah, we did toy with how to

1314
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:19,320
keep the children engaged for
longer and and and thought about

1315
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,800
a like Tamagotchi style health
rating, but we quickly thought

1316
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:23,880
that was quite cruel.
Well.

1317
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,760
Here's the thing with
gamification and, and Ed Ed tech

1318
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,600
in general, Hayden and I have
been huge proponents for using

1319
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,040
technology for good because we,
I, I think there's two sets of

1320
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,840
people in the world.
There's the idealists and

1321
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,360
there's the realists.
And being an idealist is, is

1322
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,800
fantastic, isn't it?
It's like this utopian world

1323
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,720
where children don't need to be
sat in front of the iPad and

1324
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:45,600
there's the screen Time isn't
the thing in the real world.

1325
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,280
You touched upon it there, there
are going to be children where

1326
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,160
this is a reality for them.
And also in the real world,

1327
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,800
technology is real and it's,
it's advancing quicker than you

1328
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:55,480
can imagine right now of AI and
etcetera.

1329
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:56,960
Interesting, General.
It's going so fast.

1330
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:00,400
So I think we have to adopt it
and we have to, like you said,

1331
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:01,760
meet the children where they
are.

1332
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:03,760
We spoke about reading for
enjoyment.

1333
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,360
We want children to read more.
And if it means that we take

1334
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,160
advantage of the fact that
there's a zoo that they can earn

1335
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,440
some coins on to get a little
capybara to add to it and but

1336
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:14,880
they end up reading because of
it.

1337
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,320
And if they have special
educational needs and actually

1338
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,120
this hits it so much that
they're reading five times as

1339
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:23,320
much as they were beforehand, I
can't see a situation where

1340
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:24,960
someone can sit here and tell me
how that's a bad.

1341
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,000
Thing I know it's really hard
and you do, we have come up

1342
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,440
against resistance and I think
that resistance has a place.

1343
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,640
But like you say, that's a
utopia where children, children

1344
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,840
are accessing far more than even
we were.

1345
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,520
And the jobs that are around
now, you wouldn't have even been

1346
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,760
able to imagine when I was in
primary school.

1347
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,040
So I think we have to move with
them.

1348
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:51,200
And there's a lot of fear around
AI, and I hope everybody used AI

1349
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,800
to write their reports so.
We've been a big proponent.

1350
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,000
For.
That there's a lot of, there's a

1351
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,640
lot, a lot of fear.
And I think that education is

1352
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,680
the way around that.
And if you don't teach children,

1353
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,760
teach children, teach teachers
how to use technology to better

1354
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,320
the children, and it has a real
place in education, absolutely,

1355
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,680
then we're doing them a
disservice and we need to expose

1356
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,120
them to this.
I've got a Kindle.

1357
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:20,840
I've had a Kindle for 15 years.
I choose to read physical books,

1358
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,440
but I also choose to read on a
Kindle when it suits me.

1359
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:27,560
So it's no different to that.
And I see as as I said before,

1360
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,920
if a child is on their iPad I
would rather they were reading

1361
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,360
than scrolling through YouTube.
Videos, you're an individual,

1362
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,160
you're an individual.
How you read is different.

1363
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:37,560
How you read how I read is
different.

1364
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:41,240
We can't have this blanket idea
of what reading should look like

1365
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,040
because at the end of the day, I
just want children reading more.

1366
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,800
And you know, I completely agree
by the way, that technology

1367
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,040
needs to be the way forward.
And I think we all know sat here

1368
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,120
having delivered how many E
safety lessons that there there.

1369
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,080
But there is there is huge
dangers online for children.

1370
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,080
But in a in a ex sense, it's not
just free reign of the Internet

1371
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,200
for the children.
It's very specifically curated

1372
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,880
by experts in the educational
field to give some kind of

1373
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:06,400
gamification to get children
online.

1374
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,840
But at the end of the day, what
the end goal here is, is that

1375
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,280
children are reading more and
children are enjoying reading

1376
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,960
more.
That is a good for the world.

1377
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,000
And I felt like when I was
developing stories who obviously

1378
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,000
I did a lot of research into
edtech and from my own personal

1379
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,560
experience, I felt like we we
used and bought a lot of

1380
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:28,840
software that was built by tech
entrepreneurs and not built by

1381
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,520
teachers, Right.
And so it did some of the things

1382
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:33,960
that I wanted it to do, but
there was always a gap.

1383
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,000
And there was always, oh, if it
could do that.

1384
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:37,360
Yeah.
And they were inaccessible.

1385
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,920
So they were out in, I imagine,
Silicon Valley.

1386
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,520
I've got no idea in my head.
Yeah, they're, they're away

1387
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:48,000
somewhere hot.
And I had no way as a lowly

1388
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,160
teacher of accessing them or
saying, oh, it'd be really good

1389
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,000
if you could do this.
So as I was developing stories,

1390
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,800
it was really important to me
that AI was accessible as

1391
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:58,680
possible.
I give my e-mail out.

1392
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,080
I have a Direct Line from
teachers, but also that we did

1393
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,680
loads of workshops with teachers
to make sure that it was exactly

1394
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,520
what was needed.
And as I've travelled, we've

1395
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,200
gone all around the country.
Now we deliver free reading

1396
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:15,920
workshops as well as part of our
ethos is to make technology as

1397
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,280
accessible as possible.
So as I've gone around the

1398
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,400
country, there's I've gone
around the country delivering

1399
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,640
free reading workshops.
I found that it's not just me

1400
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,800
that felt like that, that the
technology just had not caught

1401
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,800
up with what we needed as
teachers.

1402
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,600
So that was hugely important
that we, we solved a problem

1403
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,320
that was actually there rather
than creating technology for

1404
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,440
what we thought for the source
we needed.

1405
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:38,400
Yeah.
Completely.

1406
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,240
I think what you're building is
really exciting.

1407
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:42,320
Thanks.
I think you're building a

1408
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:44,280
really.
I'm very excited for you both as

1409
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:44,720
well.
I know.

1410
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,440
We're leaving.
And you know what?

1411
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:47,960
Weird.
You come in from the reading

1412
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:48,880
specialist side.
Yeah.

1413
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,040
Anyone listening to the podcast
knows that math is our thing.

1414
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,640
And very similarly to the way
we're saying that, being able to

1415
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,480
break down words and understand
them, that journey of reading,

1416
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,800
we see the same thing with maths
and and arithmetic being almost

1417
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,520
put to this, put to one side
because ultimately, like you

1418
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,400
said, yeah, reasoning is 2/3 of
the math Sats papers and how we

1419
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,480
judge children actually in the
real world.

1420
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,720
Yeah, okay, fair enough.
There's gonna be arithmetic, but

1421
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:12,880
you need to be able to solve
problems.

1422
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,160
I get all that and I know how
important reasoning and problem

1423
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:16,680
solving is.
And because I think that's

1424
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,360
important, I think we all just
kind of blindly walk through

1425
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,440
education going well, yeah, we
need to do lots of that.

1426
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,680
And I think arithmetic is put on
such a backseat right now where

1427
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,040
there's not enough practise,
Kids need to do it.

1428
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,880
Kids need to read more, kids
need to do more basic maths.

1429
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,240
The amount of children who will
get to Year 6 now and can't

1430
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,040
double the amount of children
who get to year 6 and the number

1431
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,320
sense just got, I don't really
understand number, but they can

1432
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,440
kind of get through gloss
through it and not understand

1433
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:42,760
what's going on.
That is also having a detriment.

1434
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,200
And if I think about the role of
school in terms of academics,

1435
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,240
because I think school has a
huge role to play socially

1436
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,880
etcetera and helping out.
But in terms of academics as a

1437
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,760
teacher, what I really
fundamentally care about is that

1438
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,240
they can read well and
understand texts, they can do

1439
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,400
maths and from that they can
have their interests and

1440
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,880
understanding of the wider
Society of history, geography,

1441
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:03,880
etcetera.
But it comes from these two

1442
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:05,480
basic.
And we're not giving them the

1443
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,320
building blocks like you say.
So I feel like my experience

1444
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:12,400
with maths is that I ended up
having to teach them methods to

1445
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,880
overcome the fact that they had
no solid foundation.

1446
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:20,800
And I was seeing more and more
towards the end of before I left

1447
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,120
that there was no number sense
and there was no linking

1448
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,600
mathematical ideas.
So I was plastering over that

1449
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,000
fact by teaching them methods.
But if like this exactly the

1450
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:32,960
same as reading.
If we get that right when

1451
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:36,120
they're really little and we
give them the solid foundation,

1452
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,160
then the reasoning comes later.
You can't reason with numbers

1453
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,800
that you can't make a
relationship with in your head.

1454
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,960
So the way I see education in my
head is we have tried to, over

1455
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,640
the last 10 years, 15 years,
whatever it is we've tried to

1456
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,680
get, we've got to the point
where we are building

1457
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:55,800
understanding and reading and
maths on the smallest foundation

1458
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,840
that we can get away with.
It's like we're building a house

1459
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,520
on steel.
Yeah, exactly, exactly that, you

1460
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:01,720
know, and it just can't be
stripped.

1461
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:02,920
And actually, do you know what
we do?

1462
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,760
We just need to strengthen those
foundations in arithmetic, in

1463
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:06,920
reading.
But it hasn't.

1464
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:08,240
It will have a natural knock on
effect.

1465
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,840
And I just think that that from
from our point of view here, I

1466
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:12,760
think all three of us sat here
thinking, OK, we've left the

1467
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,120
classroom.
How can we redefine the purpose

1468
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,840
of being so passionate about
education and wanting to help

1469
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,560
children so much.
This is where I see in the next

1470
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,280
few years how we can still do
that.

1471
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,080
And it really excites me.
Yeah, Impact.

1472
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,800
I think.
We focusing on SO gap analysis

1473
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,200
and filling gaps and
interventions are all great, but

1474
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,480
imagine a world where we get it
right the first time.

1475
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:33,480
Yeah, yeah.
And.

1476
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,880
We don't need that.
Let's put all of the effort into

1477
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,960
this early stage and then we'll
have wonderful articulate.

1478
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,160
Build on a fantastic foundation.
You know what I mean?

1479
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:43,800
Yeah.
But so, you know, in my last

1480
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,040
three weeks, one time in my last
three weeks, when I try out the

1481
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:47,600
stories here, what, what
actually would be the first

1482
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:48,440
step?
I'm sure we've got a lot of

1483
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:50,680
listeners who right now probably
thinking, OK, I wanna, I'm gonna

1484
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,040
go check this out.
What actually is the first step?

1485
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,000
How do I go from not knowing
anything about it to maybe using

1486
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,320
it in my school?
So we've got a wonderful

1487
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,440
website, storyzoo.org and as I
say, you've always got a Direct

1488
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,200
Line to me.
So if you're listening and you

1489
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,080
want a free reading workshop or
you want to find out more, I can

1490
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:09,200
do a demo call.
I do and Sophie, Sophie at

1491
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,840
storyzoo.org it, it comes
straight through to me and I

1492
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,520
handle all enquiries myself.
So you know they're coming from

1493
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,080
from a teacher based perspective
and.

1494
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:21,880
You've got the best interests of
the kids at heart.

1495
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:23,800
I can, absolutely.
Yeah, I really have.

1496
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,280
And I think that they are the
children, our generation of

1497
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,520
children are literally gonna
change the world.

1498
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:34,000
They've got they've got the
fight and the drive and none of

1499
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,480
the anxiety that we had when we
were at school.

1500
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,720
Yeah, we just need to give them
the skills and give them the

1501
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,640
foundation.
And I think that's that's my

1502
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:43,440
mission now outside the
classroom.

1503
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,360
Sophie, it's been an absolute
pleasure having you on here so

1504
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:46,960
much.
It was lovely to meet you both.

1505
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:48,800
No, no.
Thank you and even just from a

1506
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,800
selfish position, just for one
moment, I don't want you to be

1507
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,240
just want it like as as we're
just about to embark on this new

1508
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,640
adventure and, and leaving
teaching, which is scary for us.

1509
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,000
You know, we, we, we might give
it a talk on the podcast, but we

1510
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,200
are nervous about it.
It does fill with a bit of hope

1511
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,160
that there are positions out
there and there are things you

1512
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,760
can do within education.
You might not be that classroom

1513
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:07,920
teacher, but you can still
impact it.

1514
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:08,600
Oh.
People.

1515
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,760
Yeah, 100%, yeah.
Thank you.

1516
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,880
Hey everyone, Dylan here hoping
that you enjoyed that episode.

1517
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:18,760
I'm just jumping on now to give
you a little outro.

1518
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,360
As you can see, no, Hayden
couldn't be bothered to turn up

1519
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:22,640
for you guys.
How dare he.

1520
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,880
But as always, if you have got
this far into this episode, we

1521
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,600
massively appreciate you.
You can get in touch with us on

1522
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,600
Instagram, at Teach Sleep Repeat
podcast, on TikTok at Teach

1523
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,480
Sleep Repeat podcast.
And a huge, huge favour you can

1524
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,240
do for us is to just leave us a
rating wherever you get your

1525
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,960
podcasts.
It helps us out massively.

1526
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,760
Now anyone watching the video of
this podcast will see behind me

1527
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,800
a little sneak peek at our new
setup.

1528
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,160
Couple of chairs, a couple of
mic arms, a couple of lights.

1529
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,560
Nothing absolutely complete and
finished yet, but it was a great

1530
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:53,880
experience to be in an actual
podcast studio for this weeks

1531
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:57,320
episode and it really gave us a
taste of what's to come for us.

1532
01:04:57,840 --> 01:04:59,120
Guys.
Thank you again.

1533
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,320
And we'll see you again next
week for another episode of

1534
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:02,200
Teach Sleep.
Repeat.