Ep 148: Attendance Awards, Smartphones & Absence Fines: Our Strongest Teacher Opinions!

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Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teach Sleep

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
And this week?

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We're going to be going through
some of our most strongly held

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teacher beliefs.
That includes our opinions on

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smartphones in schools,
attendance, awards, curriculum

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cramming, and so many more
things.

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We might ruffle some feathers,
you might agree with everything.

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Let us know and let's get
cracking.

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So for context, Dylan, for our
listeners, where has this list

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come from?
My noggin, my head, the

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precipice of my mind.
I don't know.

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I was just thinking, I just get
into these zones sometimes it's

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just thinking like, oh, there's
so much stuff I want to talk

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about all the time on social
media and we do bits and bobs,

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obviously say we very liberally.
I on social media post bits.

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And I just thought, you know
what, I'm going to do a super

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list.
I'm going to go into Facebook

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and just type up all of my most
strongly held opinions.

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And I went into my mind palace
and I thought, I'm just going to

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say everything I can think of.
And I put it into a post online

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and it has done the rounds.
Like it's been very popular.

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It's a really good reaction from
people.

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And I thought to myself, do you
know what?

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This is clearly something people
want to hear about and I'd love

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everyone listening to.
Let us know what you think, if

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there's anything you add to this
list, if you really disagree

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with especially.
Or do you think it's pretty much

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spot on?
So I was thinking I could

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literally just go through my
list and then I'll say what my

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opinion is.
And then you can come back and

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say whether you agree or we can
even chat about why maybe you

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disagree.
I can correct it exactly.

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Yeah.
Like, like we always do.

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So I simply started off some of
my strongly held views on

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education, having taught in
primary schools for 10 years.

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My first one, fines for children
being absent from school don't

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work.
I couldn't agree more that, you

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know, this is such a black and
white one to me.

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And I feel like even looking
from the comments from when you

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post that people, everyone
agrees with this.

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It doesn't work.
There are more fines than ever

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right now.
It hasn't changed anything.

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All all it does is it means that
people are now poorer.

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They just have, they have to,
well, they just have to pay this

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money now.
Like, it's not it's not

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deterring.
It's not doing, I guess, what

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it's supposed to do.
Yeah.

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I just don't.
I don't know.

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What are your thoughts on it?
Because you clearly put it as

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your first ones.
Yeah, it it came to my mind.

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This is what I thought straight
away.

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Because it doesn't.
The reason it doesn't work is

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twofold, but you can literally
just look at the stats.

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There are genuinely more fines
going out now than ever before.

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So clearly it doesn't deter
people.

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It's not stopped people.
We had a really push, a really

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big push on fines for a few
years now.

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If it was working, we'd have
fewer fines and fewer absences,

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right?
So I don't think it's working

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because of that.
But also my point here is when

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you're booking a holiday and if
it's in term time, and let's say

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you save £1000 by going in term
time, which is very reasonable,

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genuinely for like a family of
four, it could be £1000 cheaper

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and you take the fine for £80,
right?

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That's it doesn't take a genius
to work out that's 920 lbs

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you've saved.
So even when families accept the

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fine and say, yeah, whatever,
that's fine, we'll take the

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fine, we'll pay.
It's £80.

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They've saved nearly a grand
still.

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Like it's still so much cheaper.
And there are so many reasons

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why we have an absence issue.
We've done a whole episodes on

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this.
Go back and listen to them.

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But having just OK, so we'll
find people for it doesn't

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remotely address the reasons why
in the 1st place children might

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be absent.
And I just think we've gone down

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this road of demonising all
absence ever.

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And whilst I agree attendance is
important, I don't not think

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that.
I just don't think that this is

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the way to go back trying to fix
it.

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What do you think would happen
if we just got rid of that

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system?
We just said cool fines don't

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exist anymore.
Do you think that do you think

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there'll be a major change in in
absence?

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Do you feel like it would get a
lot worse and mine made like a

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tiny bit worse?
There's there's probably some

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people out there who might be in
school more because their

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parents are worried about fines.
I'm not saying those people

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don't exist.
OK, So you might move the dial

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slightly by having these fines.
That is, that's probably true,

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right?
Because for some people it will

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be a deterrent.
My point here is, though, that

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simply just putting that down as
a sticking plaster and saying,

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well, it's OK, we'll find
people.

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And they were thinking about
increasing the amount that

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people get fined because yeah,
yeah.

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As if that's going to make a
difference.

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Honestly.
Like, I just think it's insane.

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And when you end up, what ends
up happening is the poorest

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people who have poor, who have
bad attendance aren't often the

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children aren't doing it
maliciously.

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That's for a start.
The parents are very often in

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situations where a fine must
stop them being a drug addict.

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A fine want to stop them being
an alcoholic that doesn't get up

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in time for their kids to come
to school.

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Do you know what a fine will do?
Just means they're 80 LB poorer.

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Just means there's less money
for the children to have food on

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the table.
It'll just make the lives of

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those children even worse and
not solve the issue of their

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absence in school.
So when I see that happening, I

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very, very passionately think
that it doesn't work.

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And even if we say, oh, for some
families it might work as a bit

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of a deterrent, great.
But as a whole, I just think

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it's missing the picture
massively.

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No, I think that's fair enough.
I can, I think I can really

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appreciate the fact that it's
not worth the, if it does

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anything good, like it is a
slight deterrent, it's not worth

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it for that exact example you
just gave there of a child, like

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literally not having food on the
table that week because the

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fight is is not solving the
problem.

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Yeah, I think that's a good
point.

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Definitely right next one.
Taking a child out of school for

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a holiday, a family event or a
big occasion once in a while is

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absolutely fine and we should
not be demonising these people.

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As a teacher, yeah, I feel like
we're supposed to not be allowed

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to agree with that.
You know what I mean?

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So when I saw you write that
down, I was like, yeah, go on,

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Dylan, because I agree.
And there's a really important

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phrase there once in a while.
Exactly.

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I do.
I do think there is a line

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somewhere.
I actually don't know what that

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line is.
And I don't think we'd even be

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able to like objectively say
this is the exact line where

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it's no longer OK.
But we know that 62 week

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holidays in a year is too much.
Exactly.

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Yeah, It was like, I can point
to the extremities and be like,

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that's too much.
I can also point to the family

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who otherwise wouldn't be able
to go on holiday, right?

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Because because going in school
holidays is unbelievably,

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stupidly expensive.
And, and point to that example,

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they and they go for a week once
a year in term time.

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And I can go, well, that's OK.
Yeah.

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So clearly there's a line
somewhere.

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But the problem is the line's
very much been put down to it's

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just not OK at all, right?
That's what it feels like.

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And it and it's like, it's just
so annoying because I, I feel

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like it's it's not, it wasn't
our choice.

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A bunch of head teachers and
teachers didn't sit down one day

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and go that bloody line.
Let's move it down.

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I'm sick of I'm sick of kids
having a good time every now and

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then sometimes.
Let's put the line.

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No one to do it.
That wasn't our choice.

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This this government policies
from top down.

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It was in 2013 it was
implemented.

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Yeah, it's, I was going to say
it's been over 10 years now,

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isn't it?
Because before that, schools had

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the, the, the ability to have a
bit of discretion, right, In

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terms of they could, they could,
a head teacher could approve or

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authorise like a certain absence
or.

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Whatever.
Yeah, they could do like a

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longer holiday and the teacher
could head teacher could just

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say, yeah, sure, that's fine,
but the head teachers literally

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can't do that anymore because
then they'll be in trouble.

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They just can't do it.
Yeah, but it just looks bad on

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us.
It's like, then there is, there

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is the head teacher getting
screamed out of the gate on the

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gate because they've had to.
They've had to.

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The head teacher gives out a
finance.

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OK, OK, yeah, talk to a head
teacher.

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My goodness me, I don't know
anyone who wants to take money

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off a family.
I don't know anyone who wants

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that genuinely.
Yeah, It, it winds me up and I

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think I I put in there
specifically more than just

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holiday because there again,
there are people who are like,

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well, a week away in Tenerife in
a, in a holiday park isn't

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enriching culturally.
Firstly, I think that's quite

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snobby, honestly.
Like that's my first thought

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there because I come from a less
affluent background when I was

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younger.
And for me, going away to a

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caravan park in Rhyl, OK,
compared to someone maybe going

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to the Amazon for an ice
expedition down the down the

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river, right.
Oh, well, though Amazon's much

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more culture enriching.
Of course, that's fine.

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Great.
I'm never going to be able to do

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that.
So for me, going to real to a

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caravan park, doesn't matter if
you think it's not culture

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enriching or not, get off your
high horse and let me go and

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have a holiday with my family.
Get over yourself.

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So I don't like that anyway.
But even just like down to

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saying things like just like a
family event every now and then

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a wedding.
Oh, my uncle's getting married

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in Spain.
Well, you can't go.

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Course you can.
Oh my God, of course you can fly

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out on Wednesday, come back on
Sunday.

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You missed 3 days of school.
You went to your uncle's

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wedding.
Let's be real for a second.

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I can catch you up on improper
fractions.

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Yeah.
Honestly, it's fine.

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Yeah, you could have been.
You could have been ill as well

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for that.
I know.

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Yeah.
There's also a child who is off

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Wednesday to Friday because
they're chicken box was a child

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who was off Wednesday to Friday.
They went to Spain for uncle

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holiday.
Yeah, don't care either.

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Monday I'll help you both can.
We just pretend, let's just

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pretend the other one was also
ill and then we don't care about

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it.
Didn't bother us.

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The one that didn't bother us.
But that's rubbish.

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Hope you're right.
Just pretend.

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Yeah, there are some people who
are bothered by people being.

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Yeah, I suppose so.
Funny enough, I was at a wedding

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the other day and the father of
the bride gave a speech and it

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was a really, really lovely
speech.

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And he was talking about his
daughter when she was younger.

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And there was a part in it that
made me think of like very much

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this conversation, right?
Because he said he was reading

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out some like quote an
embarrassing letter that he that

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she wrote to him when she was
like 9 or something like that.

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It was really, really sweet.
And it was about I think it was

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busted where it were local at
the time and they were, they

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were just down in their area for
like 1 day and they were doing

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like signing of CDs and stuff
like that.

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And she was obsessed with them.
I think it was busted and and

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she wrote this letter to her dad
like a like a persuasive letter.

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But here's 10 reasons why I
think that I should have the day

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00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:48,760
of school and you should take me
to this thing.

227
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,400
And when, when he was sort of
reading this through, I was like

228
00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,200
thinking, reflecting on teaching
and how everything we've just

229
00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,360
said, like, surely that's OK.
Surely that is a no brainer.

230
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,320
I was like, as a as a parent, as
a teacher, I'm thinking, yeah,

231
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,520
go and do that.
That enrich this thing that

232
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,400
means so much to you, this one
day, please go and do it.

233
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,720
And the fact that I, the part of
my head was like, oh, no, that's

234
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,800
really, really bad.
That is the worst thing anyone

235
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,160
could ever do because I've been
indoctrinated into this mindset

236
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,880
as I know it's not.
No, no, it's not.

237
00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:21,880
That's what they like.
This is so important to that

238
00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,560
kid.
Yeah. 100 percent, 100% You'd

239
00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:25,760
never regret it, would you?
No, you would never regret.

240
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,240
It He finished his speech by
saying, safe to say, we did go,

241
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:29,760
yeah.
Yeah, damn straight.

242
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,800
Yeah.
And I'm, I'm, you know, you went

243
00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,440
to that wedding.
A lot of like the groom's family

244
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:34,560
stuff.
There were teachers as well,

245
00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:35,200
right?
They were teaching.

246
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,120
The groom was.
I can't imagine the grooms that

247
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:38,680
they're going well, I've made
the wrong decision.

248
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:40,480
I've married into the wrong
family.

249
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:41,920
You need to be there all the
time, no?

250
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,960
One cares.
Hope you've got a fine, Sir.

251
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:44,560
Father-in-law.
Yeah.

252
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,520
Having having our children now,
Right.

253
00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,760
Don't you just think to
yourself, if there was something

254
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,880
Rory was obsessed with and they
were in town for one day and it

255
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,280
was a Wednesday and he was
supposed to be in school, I

256
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,520
would not hesitate to let him
have the day off and go and take

257
00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:58,440
him.
Yeah, No brainer.

258
00:09:58,520 --> 00:09:59,480
Wouldn't hesitate.
No brainer.

259
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,240
And there's so many people that
listen to this right now that

260
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,240
would absolutely think, oh, that
would get that cackles up.

261
00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,120
Yeah, that's fine.
That's bad.

262
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,400
We can disagree, honestly.
Yeah, I don't care.

263
00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:10,960
Like this is the thing, I don't
necessarily think people who

264
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,840
would not do that, I don't think
you're automatically a bad

265
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,640
person whatsoever.
It's just different people have

266
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,200
different outlooks on education
and stuff.

267
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,560
And it's like for them it's so
important that you shouldn't

268
00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:21,400
miss a day.
I just, I just disagree.

269
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,200
I just think it's fine to not do
that and then to then like for

270
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,680
it to be like put on my desk
after you got £80 fine for that

271
00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:29,680
day.
Like, OK, I'll just lie and say

272
00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:31,000
what's I'll.
OK, what now?

273
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,240
What about if this thing that he
loves is downtown, but it's one

274
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,800
day and you and it's like 12
weeks in a row at that point?

275
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:38,840
Does that make you think I asked
for too?

276
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,000
Much, Yeah.
But then then I'd be saying to

277
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,800
him, look, you can't, you can't
have a once in a lifetime

278
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,520
opportunity 12 times in three
months, you know, like it'd be

279
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,240
very easy.
Like, yeah, yeah, there isn't,

280
00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:48,760
There's a, there's a false
comparison there.

281
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,640
It's every.
Friday they're only here one

282
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,560
time this week until next week.
Is that right?

283
00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,280
OK son, we'll go once like, but
you do need to go to school as

284
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:57,720
well.
You're not diminishing school.

285
00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,600
I just think like, you know, I
just think it's quite snobby

286
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:01,760
sometimes.
I really do.

287
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,520
And I always cast my mind back
to recently in school where the

288
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,080
flow the family owns, an officer
came into my classroom and said,

289
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,240
this child won't be in today.
They're going to Chessington.

290
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,600
I know for a fact that child and
his family never have the

291
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,720
opportunity to do anything like
this whatsoever.

292
00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,960
So my immediate thought in that
situation was, oh, do you want

293
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,320
me to be annoyed by this?
Are you coming to tell me this?

294
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,960
As if like, oh, they're going to
Chessington?

295
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,120
Because my gut instinct was, I'm
so happy for him to be able to

296
00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,360
do that, right?
And then the flow straight after

297
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,400
said, isn't that great?
And I was like, so glad I'm

298
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,560
working with people like this
who where it's just like, mate,

299
00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:38,200
you these kids, they, you know,
it's a good thing.

300
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,240
And the snobbery, right?
The snobbery thing, it runs

301
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:41,840
really deep as well.
I can think of another example

302
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,520
of like a bit of the sort of
dual system here of the

303
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,960
snobbery, right.
Imagine you've got that, that

304
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,280
situation there and you've got
this one kid who's out and

305
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,400
there'll be some people like,
for God's sake, should be in

306
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:53,920
school.
Why they do this in this draw a

307
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:55,440
ridiculous.
Oh, also, sorry, I've just come

308
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:56,840
back to Steven.
This child's also got to go.

309
00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,600
And they're not, they're not
going to be in for the rest of

310
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,160
the day because they've got a
piano recital and they've

311
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,960
actually got an exam.
And in this private board, it's.

312
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,240
Oh, fantastic.
Get out of the bloody classroom.

313
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,680
Don't do that.
Yeah, well, they're both

314
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:07,560
missing.
They are both not in your class.

315
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,840
And if you're saying that one's
OK and this one's not OK, it

316
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,120
does.
It does kind of start to become,

317
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:12,480
it's not brief.
It's just this one day thing.

318
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,040
Like yeah, there's lots of
examples.

319
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,960
If it's the one off and that was
compare if overall it's good to

320
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,760
attendance as well.
Like if you're clearly not

321
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,800
taking the Mickey, it's fine.
And again, this the first three,

322
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,000
you can tell what my train of
thought was.

323
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,440
That's my next one.
Attendance awards mean children

324
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,400
are rewarded for coming into
school when they're ill and can

325
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,680
spread illness, and those with
chronic conditions will always

326
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,520
miss out.
It's true, we've talked about

327
00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:38,040
this before.
I feel like I can summarise my

328
00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,800
thoughts here on a bit like the
fines.

329
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,560
The attendance award isn't
solving the problem right?

330
00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:45,160
It doesn't.
It's not really doing anything

331
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,760
like it.
All it does is make the kids who

332
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:49,240
usually it's out of their
control.

333
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:50,760
If we're talking like young
primary school children, it's

334
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,880
not really in their control as
to whether they get to school on

335
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,200
all times a 7 year old, right?
Realistically is it?

336
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,400
I'm sure, OK, some kids start
walking to school at some point,

337
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,360
whatever.
But generally it's not.

338
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,600
And all we're doing is being
like, no, no, just in your face.

339
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,560
You don't get this tree, you
don't get this reward now

340
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:07,680
everyone else does.
Because your mum didn't get you

341
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:08,240
up.
Yeah.

342
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:09,520
So what?
Yeah, Sorry.

343
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,000
Is that, is that what that's,
that's how we're going to treat

344
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:12,400
this.
Is it?

345
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,200
We're going to make the kid feel
bad about that.

346
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,080
It doesn't make it just to me,
it just screams like it's

347
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:18,080
insane.
Yeah.

348
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,280
It's just not right.
I just don't like it because it

349
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,320
again, it does fast.
You know, we had a comment on

350
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:24,560
this.
You have so many comments.

351
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:25,760
It was so good to read through
the comments.

352
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,320
But we had a comment on there
basically saying along the lines

353
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,320
of my son was running a fever.
He was really ill, genuinely

354
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,040
really sick and and should not
be in school, shouldn't be in

355
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,840
school.
And the school after the first

356
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,160
day this child was off two or
three days was ringing

357
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,680
constantly saying well, your
child's missed this, this and

358
00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:44,200
this today.
It's really bad for them to miss

359
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:44,920
this.
How's he doing?

360
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,360
Can he coming to school leave me
alone?

361
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,000
Like, are we suggesting there
are no situations where children

362
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,440
should not be in school?
Because it seems to me that's

363
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,280
what we're doing.
It's not like an award for

364
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,360
amazing writing.
It's not the same.

365
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,600
It's not like an award for being
really good at football.

366
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,480
It's not the same.
It's a false equivalence because

367
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,560
there are literally points.
Where you can point to not being

368
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:10,000
in school was the best thing you
should do.

369
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,120
Yeah, for sure.
And it's right for.

370
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,360
And they don't then get the
reward.

371
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,080
Exactly.
Oh, everyone stand except you,

372
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,040
Mr Chronic Illness.
Exactly that you can't control.

373
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,280
And it's just complete potluck
whether you had this condition

374
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:21,960
or not.
Yeah, you sit down.

375
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:23,680
Everyone else 100% attendance.
Well done.

376
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,320
Yeah, it's horrendous.
I don't want to make that good

377
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:26,800
feel like that.
Yeah, it's awful.

378
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,200
And it comes down to that.
It's like, I know why people do

379
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,840
these things.
Yeah, I really do.

380
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,040
And again, there's lots of
pressure on head teachers to run

381
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,640
things like this from local
councils, from big trusts, from

382
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:39,480
the top down saying we need to
drive up attendance because the

383
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,400
government top down is saying we
need to drive up attendance.

384
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,120
I just think this is the classic
case.

385
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,160
And I see there's so much in
education where there's an easy

386
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,840
option that's easy to implement
and easy to do that costs

387
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,960
nothing, that is detrimental as
a whole.

388
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,560
But it looks like we're doing
something for me, attendance

389
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,760
awards comes into this finding
for absence comes into this very

390
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,480
easy things to implement right,
that don't really cost anything,

391
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,040
but don't get to the root cause
of can we solve this problem?

392
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,720
Well, the way we should actually
be solving these attendance

393
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,440
problems and these this absence
crisis is fundamental, deep

394
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,920
rooted into our systems and, and
years and years of cutting

395
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,680
funding and just not getting the
right things in place, that's

396
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,880
much harder to do.
So we just tend to ignore that

397
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,240
and do this other thing.
It's like, well, no, that

398
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,320
doesn't work either.
Yeah, and with attendance

399
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,560
awards, a bit like the finding
thing, there are still obviously

400
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,680
fringe cases where it does work.
You know, here I said, yeah, OK.

401
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,000
I'm sure the fines are a
deterrent for some people.

402
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,600
I'm sure the attendance awards
genuinely do make a difference

403
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,760
to some children in some
situations.

404
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,280
You need the end of the term.
And as a kid, that maybe, yeah,

405
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,240
maybe you're just, you're just
being a bit annoying and you're

406
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,080
and you're.
Kind of.

407
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,800
Bothered you don't want to go
in, but you're thinking, you

408
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:47,840
know what, actually, I'm only
one.

409
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:49,960
I'm only one day away from
getting that perfect attendance

410
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,480
and then I get this award thing
for it.

411
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,920
Fine, I'll just I'll, I'll suck
it up and I'll go in.

412
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:55,560
It might make it, it might do
that.

413
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,440
I'm sure it does to some impact,
but everything else we've said

414
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,320
overrides it.
So I don't people to think we

415
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,040
only have this like 1 closed
mind.

416
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,120
This is the only reality that
exists and we we know that these

417
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,440
things can maybe have a positive
impact to some people in some

418
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:08,920
way.
It's just not worth it.

419
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,200
In my opinion, absolutely.
Yeah, I completely agree.

420
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,600
And imagine the kid next door to
that kid who has horrendous

421
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,280
anxiety about getting into
school and knows that they are

422
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,720
really anxious about going into
school, but they're also now

423
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,560
really anxious about not because
they're going to miss their

424
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:22,920
chance to win an iPad in the
raffle.

425
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,000
Why are we doing that to our
kids?

426
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,000
That kid doesn't need that.
That's not helping their anxiety

427
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,040
or their needs.
That's not helping them get

428
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,960
better.
It's just adding another layer

429
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:33,360
of anxiety.
And the kid next to that

430
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,720
literally just got the flu,
right?

431
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,720
You said like it's not even,
it's not even a thing.

432
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,000
It's just they were literally
just ill and shouldn't even be

433
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,320
in school.
And they also now don't get it.

434
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,240
And did the right thing by not
going yeah and are technically

435
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,880
being punished in my yeah
exactly it's just insane all

436
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,040
right next one primary school
children do not need hours and

437
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,480
hours of homework every single
week I'll.

438
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,320
Throw this one back to you.
What made you write that?

439
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,360
What?
What are your thoughts here?

440
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,760
My thoughts on this one are
excessive homework, and the

441
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,960
reason I said don't need hours
and hours is because I don't

442
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,760
necessarily think that any
school that has homework is is

443
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,280
automatically bad.
Of course, what I'm saying here

444
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,599
is that especially with primary
school children, it should be

445
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,880
one of two things.
If you have homework that's

446
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,200
compulsory, it should be the
fundamental basics to the point

447
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,160
where some people don't even
class reading as homework.

448
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,880
I've had people before, I've had
people before say our school

449
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,720
don't do homework at all.
The children are just expected

450
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,760
to read.
It's like it's not even labelled

451
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,720
as homework.
It's like this just comes as

452
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,880
like par, this is just existing.
You have to read.

453
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,360
So I'm just going to label it as
homework still, because I'm

454
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,760
going to say homework is
anything we want people to do as

455
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,360
a school outside that's
academic.

456
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:41,240
That's fair enough.
So for me, I'd say reading and

457
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,880
the fundamentals of maths.
Like that's all I would say.

458
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,000
Like if a school has homework,
it should stop there.

459
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,200
And that can be a total of half
an hour to an hour a week

460
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,200
maximum, like as that.
That's like, expected, right?

461
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,320
And I do think the other side of
that.

462
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,920
So that's my compulsory side.
The other side is I don't think

463
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,160
it's necessarily wrong either to
suggest projects, to suggest

464
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,440
optional ideas, optional extras
where if you want to do

465
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,000
something enriching with your
child, like make a Roman shield

466
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:09,120
because they're learning about
Romans.

467
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,880
Yeah.
Or write a poem because you're

468
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,480
learning about poems in English.
Give them options where they can

469
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:15,840
do it or they can't.
It doesn't matter.

470
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,520
No one is punished whatsoever.
I personally don't think anyone

471
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,680
should be punished at all, no
matter whether you say it's

472
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,640
compulsory or not.
The homework, I don't like that,

473
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,600
but it just comes from the from
the idea of, you know, giving,

474
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,240
giving a 7 year old 10 spellings
they've got to learn every week.

475
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,560
Half an hour of times table
practise, another half an hour

476
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,280
of problem solving questions
that I've given you loads of

477
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,400
reading to do.
Here are some spag questions to

478
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,680
do at home as well.
Adds up, adds up, adds up.

479
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,320
And you've got to do the topic
stuff as well.

480
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:41,080
You've got to make your own
issue.

481
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,960
And that's that's also
compulsory as well, right, to do

482
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:43,920
that.
Exactly that.

483
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,480
So what I'm saying is there's a
certain level that I think does

484
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,920
benefit children and it's the
basics being done really well.

485
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,600
All I'm saying with this is I
don't think you need lots to be

486
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,240
a well-rounded person.
I'd rather my primary school

487
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,840
aged children outside of school
at the weekend, go to the local

488
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,720
museum, go for a walk in the
woods, go and bake a cake with a

489
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,760
nan.
Do do do everything like that.

490
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:05,840
That's how you get a
well-rounded.

491
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,000
Person, I'm glad you said that
at the end because I was about

492
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,880
to say why though.
Why does it really matter?

493
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,920
Like what's what?
Why is it bad that a kid might

494
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,960
spend an hour a day doing?
Not, but if you want to choose

495
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,080
to do that, it's fine.
I'm talking about compulsory

496
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,920
stuff and stuff where parents
who might want to try and do the

497
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,400
right thing are like cool, well
we've got to do this because the

498
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,680
school have said this, we've got
to do this.

499
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:28,120
So we can't now do that.
We can't now go to elevate and

500
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:29,920
practise jumping that you want
to do with your mates.

501
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,320
We can't now go to Nan's and and
watch that film you wanted to

502
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,040
watch with your nan.
We can't go to the cinema and

503
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,360
watch that film because we've
got to get this done.

504
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,840
Oh my God, go and do the thing.
Life is so short.

505
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,400
Life is way too short.
And I know for a fact when

506
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,440
Rory's older, I'll be putting
the basics at the forefront of

507
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,760
my mind.
But if it's an option between,

508
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,600
you know, he wants to go and
watch a football game or I'll be

509
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,720
like hobby, we could stay home
and learn what front step

510
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,960
fabulous.
It's not even close.

511
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,560
So when it comes to homework, I
just think if, if we're doing,

512
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,760
if we're doing 30 hours a week
with 7 year olds.

513
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,920
What's 35?
Does your opinion change at all

514
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,360
if like depending on, let's say
Rory was really behind?

515
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,320
Yeah, let's say he was really
struggling academically.

516
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,960
Would you then be thinking, oh
actually I need to do more?

517
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:16,800
Let me be really clear, I do not
think it's bad to do extra and

518
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,400
more outside of school.
I I really want OK this is a

519
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,040
really good point because I
maybe I haven't been clear

520
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,200
enough yet.
I'm talking about compulsory

521
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,520
school settings.
OK, if you want to do extra, I

522
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,600
think it could be my job to say
cool, If you want to do extra,

523
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,960
do this, this and this.
If you want booster groups

524
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,680
because you really want to help
you a bit behind, do this, this

525
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,160
and this.
If you want to prepare for your

526
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,680
external exams going into
secondary school and you want to

527
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,680
get a better score, here's all
the stuff you can do.

528
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,000
I am not saying it's
automatically bad.

529
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,440
What I am saying is that as a
school, we have a responsibility

530
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,320
not to enforce hours and hours
of extra work for everyone all

531
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,000
of the time.
It won't work for everyone.

532
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,560
We have a tutoring business.
We literally have a tutoring

533
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,000
business where children might do
one or two hours extra a week

534
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:57,720
with us.
Yep.

535
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,080
It's not hours and hours and
hours, but it is a boost and

536
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,320
it's optional.
And how many times have we said

537
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,360
to someone it's they are
enjoying themselves, this is

538
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:07,160
great.
Come along.

539
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,640
They're they're finding it fine,
but they're getting so much out

540
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:10,440
of it.
It's great for them.

541
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,520
Nice one.
And how many times have we said

542
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,520
it's not working for them?
Maybe this isn't something you

543
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:16,120
should.
Yeah, all the time.

544
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:17,760
We have the real conversations.
But even think about our

545
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,120
homework, we have homework built
into our choosing and it's fully

546
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,240
100% optional.
Yeah, we have absolutely no.

547
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:24,960
Because people say, where do I
hand it in?

548
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,160
And we go, no, no, no, no, no.
Look, this is just for you.

549
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,640
Some people want it, some people
don't.

550
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,800
But we're never gonna make it
out like you did all your

551
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,040
homework.
Here's a certificate.

552
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,480
You're worse for not doing it.
You're worse for, yeah, not

553
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,800
doing it.
You're better for doing

554
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:37,720
homework.
But it's optional.

555
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:38,840
But it's optional.
Yeah, we're just.

556
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,040
You can't be hypocrite.
What?

557
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,160
You do it.
Exactly that.

558
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:42,320
Exactly.
No, it's interesting.

559
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:47,560
So yeah, yeah, no, it was just
that sits with me and I'm, I'm

560
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,200
glad I got the chance to really
explain that because I'm not

561
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,360
someone to say homework always,
always bad.

562
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,080
Terrible.
Would you go as far as saying

563
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:56,400
rather than drawing a line at
like excessive, would you go as

564
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,200
far as saying schools should,
just shouldn't be saying

565
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,200
homework?
No, I wouldn't say school

566
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,920
shouldn't be doing it.
As in making it compulsory.

567
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,040
Sorry, school shouldn't be
saying anything compulsory after

568
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,920
school.
So it depends what you say by

569
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,000
compulsory, because by
definition, I'm basically saying

570
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,200
there shouldn't be a thing
that's compulsory because I'm

571
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,680
saying you shouldn't be punished
for not doing it.

572
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,200
Yeah.
So like when we say compulsory,

573
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,000
what we mean is, well, I can't
come home and make you do it,

574
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,320
but I'm going to maybe punish
you for not doing it.

575
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:19,880
Right.
Exactly.

576
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,760
I wouldn't want to do that.
So I guess by definition you

577
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:22,800
could say it's not.
Compulsory, but I.

578
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,600
Wouldn't be saying here's best
practise of minimum, here's why,

579
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,160
please do it.
I'm never going to keep a kid in

580
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,760
our lunchtime to catch up there.
I'm just not going to do that.

581
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,320
I don't agree with that.
I don't think break times and

582
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,040
lunchtime should be used for
catch up for that kind of thing.

583
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,960
I think the older you get, the
more you can say we've got to

584
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,200
start school for half an hour
just to catch up on this because

585
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,720
we need to get through this
content.

586
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:48,160
I think it becomes less obvious
to me that it's always bad.

587
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,920
But I do think for young
children, I'm just like, what we

588
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:52,760
doing?
Yeah.

589
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,760
You don't get enough play.
Play is essential.

590
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:55,760
Yeah.
And we're talking about

591
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,560
unstructured play here.
Like, never mind.

592
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,600
I think play should have more of
a room in the classroom.

593
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,560
I'm not going to.
Even when it doesn't.

594
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,760
And it's your free time play.
I'm not going to take that away

595
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:04,920
from you.
It's like gold dust.

596
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,400
Yeah, I agree.
I've always felt weird about

597
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,480
that.
I've always felt weird about

598
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,800
taking away a kids lunchtime.
And it meant I literally take

599
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,720
away my lunchtime.
Yeah, yeah, my lunchtime and

600
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,560
their lunchtime, but mostly for
them I'm like, yeah, because

601
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:14,960
that's the like, that's
ridiculous.

602
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,320
Now they've then they've got
what they've been learning all

603
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,120
morning, take their lunchtime
and then they got all afternoon

604
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,320
as well and then going to be
annoyed at them when they're not

605
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,920
performing in the afternoon
because I have had a break,

606
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:23,640
right?
Yeah.

607
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,240
Doesn't make sense.
It's just never ending cycle

608
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,200
isn't.
Yeah, right.

609
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,640
Next one.
Branded uniforms are

610
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,880
unnecessarily expensive,
especially for poor households

611
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,120
with multiple children.
They're just unnecessary.

612
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,520
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm, I'm really quite.

613
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:37,960
I have quite a strong opinion on
that.

614
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,280
So what?
What would you make a

615
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,000
distinction between branded
uniforms and uniforms in

616
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:42,960
general?
Because that was the only

617
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,080
pushback some people had.
I think they misunderstood maybe

618
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,200
what I was saying.
So where would you stand with

619
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,480
branded uniform and just having
a uniform?

620
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,600
Yeah, I think uniform, I'm all,
I'm all in for uniforms.

621
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,400
I think there's lots of
positives to just uniform in

622
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,280
general, just children being
uniformed and not having the

623
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,360
choice that's come in with their
Prada bag and Gucci slippers.

624
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:01,840
You are, I obviously would be,
which is what kind of, you know,

625
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,360
we have a uniform policy like
that obvious thing where it's

626
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:07,880
like you just, you're just
exacerbating class differences

627
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,440
inside your classroom.
Obviously uniform is good, make

628
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:11,640
everyone equal.
It's not about clothing.

629
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,080
You're here to learn, right, But
like the branded thing to me,

630
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,880
I'm just like, it's just like
it's unnecessary and it's

631
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,360
unnecessary because it is so
expensive.

632
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,120
It's so expensive to put that
logo on to buy the to buy the

633
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:21,840
uniform that the schools that
you have to buy from one of

634
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,080
these two places and it's got
the it's got the logo on it.

635
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:25,680
Oh, it's seven times more
expensive than if you'd just

636
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,240
gone to Asda George and bought
it for 2 lbs.

637
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,880
It's just nonsense to me.
It's like, no, that's just it's

638
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,200
ridiculous in in this day and
age, like with the amount of

639
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,640
people that are struggling with
money, like what are we doing

640
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,240
making them wear brand new
uniforms?

641
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:38,520
It's ridiculous.
We've had a whole episode on

642
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:39,720
this.
Go back and listen to it.

643
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,920
I'm sure we got to some sort of
agreement that it was, it's mad

644
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,120
to have branded uniforms, but at
least is it Labour that's

645
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,640
bringing it down to it's a
minimum of three maximum, sorry,

646
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,160
maximum 3 minimum.
Yeah, we're.

647
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:53,920
Gonna be in a minimum guys we're
gonna help I.

648
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,200
Don't have minimum one in my
head.

649
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,560
I don't know what I'm thinking,
but yeah, like even, but even

650
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,240
that I'm like, it's a good step,
but honestly, just get.

651
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,800
Rid of it.
Yeah, the the issue I have with

652
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,800
branded uniform, it's really
interesting because I don't know

653
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,400
where about to go of it because
I land on just not having

654
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,880
branded uniform at all.
But having branded uniform,

655
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,080
like, it is nice, but people
say, like, I felt so much pride

656
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,520
with my secondary school when I
wore my blazer with my school

657
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,320
logo on it.
I genuinely felt pride.

658
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,000
And the tie was branded, like it
was exactly what we needed.

659
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,240
And the PE kit was branded.
And you did feel like part of a

660
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,800
community.
And I liked it a lot.

661
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,280
It like it did bring us together
almost instantly.

662
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,400
And the issue I have is when
branded uniform, yeah, you can

663
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,960
say to everyone, everyone needs
branded uniform.

664
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,800
And what we're saying here is
for the poorest families, it

665
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,480
just means unnecessary expense,
right.

666
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,440
So then some people might say,
OK, branded uniform is a choice.

667
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,840
Yeah, but you can get these
options that aren't branded.

668
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,080
Well, that comes back to the
problem you said exactly the

669
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,760
class problem of or the, the
richer families have the nice

670
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,440
branded uniform and the poorer
families stand out then because

671
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,160
they've got, like you said, the
one from George, from Asda or

672
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,600
whatever it might be from the
supermarket.

673
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,840
So then like I fall on, OK, so
let's not have anything branded.

674
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:56,960
And it's like, OK, you.
Lose out on the thing you just.

675
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,360
Said exactly that I.
Think there's a way in the

676
00:25:58,360 --> 00:25:59,760
middle?
I think I said it maybe said

677
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,520
something similar in the app, so
we'll be talked about it.

678
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,120
But you can still standardise
it, but you just don't have to

679
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:05,600
do it in this stupid expensive
way, right?

680
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,120
You can still have brand newforn
where you as a school take the

681
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,480
cost.
You just give everyone AA50P

682
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,520
badge thing that they have to
iron on.

683
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:13,840
You really love the iron on
thing.

684
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,000
Maybe because it, because it's,
to me, it's like such an

685
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,720
unbelievably cheap alternative
that basically basically looks

686
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,400
the same.
You can have that identity, that

687
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,600
brand, that school identity
without saying to parents, you

688
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,040
have to spend 7 times as much as
if you got it from the store.

689
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,400
You, you just can do that.
And I don't know why it's not

690
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,440
more of a thing.
I know why it's not a thing.

691
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,960
Make cash money baby making
money.

692
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,040
It just to me it puts like a a
cash entry on what should be a

693
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,760
free for all education, state
education just be free for

694
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,760
everyone.
But you're putting a barrier up

695
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,280
of like £500 per kid and it's
like, OK, I don't really have

696
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,000
£500 spare so for the next two
months my kids won't be able to

697
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,160
any clubs.
Hope you've got it next year as

698
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,280
well.
Because they grow up, they get

699
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,440
bigger.
Right, exactly.

700
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,200
It's it's, you know, This is why
I went on my list, Hayden,

701
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,200
because I do strongly believe
it's just too expensive.

702
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,680
Next one The curriculum is
bloated and we try to teach our

703
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,880
youngest children too much too
quickly.

704
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,360
Very true.
Very, very, very true.

705
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:13,120
I think particularly think about
those youngest.

706
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,680
They should be playing and
exploring.

707
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,320
Well, my next one I'll put, I'll
put both together here is

708
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,760
because I also said we strip our
children of learning through

709
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,960
play much too quickly.
Oh, there we go.

710
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,600
I think they're very linked.
I really, I really do.

711
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,800
But here's the thing.
I saw that and then I really

712
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,880
challenged myself because why
did I think that?

713
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,840
Yeah, we should learn through
play more and therefore children

714
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,800
have less to learn because it's
a less bloated curriculum.

715
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,320
And I thought, no, I need to
challenge myself here because

716
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,200
learning through play doesn't
mean that the children learn

717
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,520
less.
And therefore it's fixed the

718
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,600
bloated curriculum.
What it means is they learn in a

719
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,560
different way.
Yeah, because because that just

720
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,160
goes into narrative of plays and
learning.

721
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,800
So if we have more play, we can
have a less bloated curriculum.

722
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,440
Yeah, you know what, You're
right.

723
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,320
They are separate points.
They're still both valid, but

724
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,560
they are separate.
You're absolutely right.

725
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,680
The curriculum being too bloated
is it's just standalone, isn't

726
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,000
it?
We're just saying there is just

727
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,080
too much content regardless of
your method of doing it.

728
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,480
There was just too much stuff.
We teach kids too much stuff.

729
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,720
Too much stuff from secondary is
dripped down into primary school

730
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,840
over the however long and it's
just unreasonable now.

731
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,000
Kids are learning things they
just don't need to know yet.

732
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,040
Do you know what it's always
yet?

733
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,920
Exactly people.
What do you mean they don't need

734
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,160
to know this?
I'm not saying they don't need

735
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,280
to know this.
I'm saying they don't need to

736
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,920
know it at 7.
They can know it at 9:00.

737
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,400
They can know it at 15.
Honestly like there's so many

738
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,960
more years they can pick up this
thing.

739
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,240
It doesn't need to be now.
So my three things on that come

740
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,960
down to the maths basics and I
just think it's clear we rushed

741
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,080
too far because talk to anyone,
any child in year 4-5 and six,

742
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,000
they'll be missing a chunk of
like just fluency and just being

743
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,200
good at manipulating number.
They will because we would have

744
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,440
spent too much time moving your
mum.

745
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,280
Second one I think about is
writing.

746
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,240
Look at the state of writing
when they get further onto the

747
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,520
score because they have not
nailed the basics.

748
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,480
We too quickly moved them into
getting in front of the verb in

749
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,400
there, making sure this we're
too concentrating on spag and

750
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,960
and building like building
ideas.

751
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,200
We're just not spending enough
time on it being coherent and

752
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,000
making sense and writing for a
perfect.

753
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,520
Creative and fun and enjoyable.
Exactly that.

754
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,880
We're skipping all that, and
then we wonder why it's clunky

755
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,280
and and methodical at the top
and doesn't read very well.

756
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:09,680
Well, that's why.
Because saying it.

757
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,160
Exactly because we've, as we've
done that.

758
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,600
And then I think about the
afternoon curriculum and I think

759
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,880
about how much of primary school
should be finding things out.

760
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,480
Amazing stories, love of
learning, wanting to find out

761
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,560
more, teaching children how to
research properly, how to find

762
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,280
things out, how to look at
stuff, save it for secondary

763
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,920
school, all that other stuff,
all the academic stuff of like

764
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,560
building up.
If you just have foster a real

765
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,720
love for learning and get
children interested in things,

766
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,360
they will by definition grow
into people who want to know

767
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,480
more as they get older.
I agree.

768
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,240
I do think that sometimes
there's an irony and I feel like

769
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,320
we're our own worst enemy
sometimes because we can be

770
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,120
like, yeah, the curriculum's so
bloated.

771
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,000
Look at this history curriculum
as one page.

772
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,480
Yeah, Is it is that bloated?
Yeah, that to me looks extremely

773
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,920
short.
That's like, I always find that

774
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,440
really funny to think of.
I sort of check myself.

775
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,520
I'm like, yeah, what's bloated
is the scheme we brought into

776
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,600
the history on top of the
actually bloated maths and

777
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,800
English curriculum, which is
really.

778
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,920
I think when people are talking
about bloated curriculums, they

779
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,520
actually do generally really
mean maths and English.

780
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,080
I think we even mean really mean
maths and.

781
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:11,440
English.
I do.

782
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,760
I do because I'd love to spend
more time on, at a historical

783
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,080
point, period of time.
I'd love to do it in the

784
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,720
morning, have a whole morning of
doing it.

785
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,560
And then, you know, literacy is
built in, maths can be built

786
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,720
into it.
It's just, yeah, a more

787
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,800
wholesome approach to learning
would be so much beneficial for

788
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,320
our children.
I really do think that next one

789
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,120
PPA for a teacher should be
completely flexible and taken

790
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,960
from home if desired if the work
gets done.

791
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,080
I'm glad you that last bit was
what I was about to say.

792
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,800
So go on you, you jump in.
Give me your thoughts on this.

793
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,640
One, well, this again, this
received a little bit of

794
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,080
pushback from people who, you
know, a couple of the things I

795
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,240
read were very legitimate and a
couple of things I thought maybe

796
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,720
misunderstood what I said
because my point here is not

797
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,280
teachers should work less.
My point here is that if PPA is

798
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,280
flexible and can be taken from
home, which by the way, I

799
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,320
understand, especially in
secondary school was really hard

800
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,160
to do because of just the way
that free periods are.

801
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,080
It's not in one block always.
So I get that.

802
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,680
But it's more you, you are more
able to do it in primary school.

803
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,680
And if you can, you should.
And what I'm saying here is if

804
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,880
you have PPA on a Tuesday and
you're not sat doing work from

805
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,400
exactly 105 to exactly 320 like
you might have been in school,

806
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,640
I'm saying it's not the end of
the world because I trust

807
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,920
teachers to have autonomy over,
do you know what I'm going to do

808
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,080
today?
I'm actually going to go and

809
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,440
pick up my kid.
I'm going to pick up my kid from

810
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,280
school once a week because I
have this freedom now and I'll

811
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,600
do the work.
When they go to bed or there's a

812
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,520
gym class I want to get in, want
to get in on.

813
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,040
It runs in the afternoon.
It's going to be really quiet.

814
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,120
I get a bit anxious when it's
busy and I kind of go during

815
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:39,800
busy times.
I'm going to go for a gym class

816
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,760
from half one to half two.
It's OK because I'll do my work

817
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,840
on Saturday or I'll stay up
late.

818
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,880
My point here is just giving
that little bit of flexibility

819
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,040
to teachers if you can, and
importantly, if you as a teacher

820
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,000
want to, I think you should.
We should be striving to give

821
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,520
that to to teachers.
Is it a legitimate counter

822
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,600
argument for someone to say,
yeah, but what if they just now

823
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,320
don't do it?
They had the time to do it in

824
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,600
school, They chose to do
something else because we've

825
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,200
given them that autonomy and
then they don't do it at the

826
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,280
weekend.
And yeah, I just think that that

827
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,360
could be true if you had PPA in
school, because PPA, you know,

828
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,520
you don't got an SRT member sat
over your shoulder anyway.

829
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,520
So like if it starts affecting
your work, I mean, it's a

830
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,720
conversation you should have
because again, if you look at

831
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,560
the STPCD, it says that teachers
can do it.

832
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,040
It doesn't mean they should.
It's not like a right, like

833
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,120
schools can very much be in
their right to say, sorry, we

834
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,120
we're not going to do that.
And that is, that is fine.

835
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,640
You have to take down the chin.
So I do think, you know, it's

836
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,520
still built in now.
Like if it's not working, then

837
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,760
it's fine for your boss to say,
right, we're going to do it from

838
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,680
from school now.
Doesn't mean they can direct you

839
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,200
still, but they might just say
for whatever reason, we want you

840
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,920
to be in school.
I had people say I disagree with

841
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,760
this because I personally would
want to have it in school.

842
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,040
And I'm like, OK, well, you
don't disagree with it though,

843
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,720
because I literally said if you
want like it's just you can

844
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,280
still, you can still stay in
school.

845
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,760
And like that person said, it's
the only time I get to talk to

846
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,920
my team.
We do some planning in that time

847
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,480
together and we share planning.
I'm like, yeah, great.

848
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,400
Definitely, definitely do that.
It's just a desire thing.

849
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,920
And I think, yeah, it just, it's
a little thing to give back.

850
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,080
And I really do think that more
trust for teachers in general,

851
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,560
like everything we've said
today, has a positive effect.

852
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,400
Are there some people that might
take advantage of it?

853
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,240
Yeah, probably.
But I think as a whole it's a

854
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,040
good thing.
I don't know what do.

855
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,440
You think honestly almost none
though my counter argument to

856
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,000
that counter argument I gave you
is this.

857
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,440
I don't think that exists.
I think it's always fun to make

858
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,960
up hypotheticals and when we
make up hypotheticals in general

859
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,960
in life, what we, what we don't
do is actually talk about how

860
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,280
likely they are.
It's always good fun.

861
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,280
I've got the most insane
hypothetical that's going to

862
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,840
ruin your arguments here, but no
one's no one ever do it with

863
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,560
teachers.
I'm like, you're inherent.

864
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,080
You are just inherently already
doing extra outside of school

865
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,080
and in your own time and not in
your contracted hours.

866
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,920
The chances of someone doing
that and also thinking, LOL, I'm

867
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,400
going to take my PPA from home
and I'm not even going to mark

868
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,680
the books and I'm not going to
plan any lessons of next week

869
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:53,920
because that is going to be,
well, funny.

870
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:55,920
They're not going to do that.
As if you were only doing that

871
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,520
because you're in school.
Yeah, Like, come on.

872
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,560
It's like you were going to,
you're already planning a bit at

873
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,720
the weekend, Now you can just do
more at the weekend because you

874
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,240
decided like it's just not
happening.

875
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,720
I'm sorry.
Yeah, People aren't doing that.

876
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,960
And if they are, it's so few
that it's like it's not worth

877
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,080
getting rid of the system
because two teachers have for

878
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,360
some reason now not planned
lessons.

879
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,159
And then they probably get fired
because they've not done that

880
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:14,040
basics of their job like.
It's going to.

881
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,040
Except if we come around, it
just seems really silly.

882
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,360
I completely agree.
Right.

883
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,679
Next couple I'm going to band
together.

884
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:22,840
School staff go above and beyond
directed time every single week

885
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,840
just delivering the basics of
the job.

886
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,840
No one should be guilt tripped
into weekend fun runs and

887
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,239
residentials just because.
And another one I'm going to

888
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,639
lump in with this.
You don't need an after school

889
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:40,000
meeting every week just for the
sake of it. 1265 hours of

890
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,320
directed time is a limit, not a
target.

891
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,280
Yeah, interesting point.
The limit not a target because

892
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,360
there's no teacher anywhere
literally ever who's not going

893
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,679
above the 1265.
So even saying that, I'm like,

894
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,520
it's kind of cool to hear.
But from your first point that

895
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:59,040
you made, teachers are already
doing 1265 hours a year, whether

896
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,400
they like to think it or not.
So I'm just going to be, let me,

897
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,000
let me clarify this then,
because I think you're

898
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,760
absolutely right when I say it's
a, it's a limit, not a target.

899
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,200
I mean on leadership to direct
staff what to do when sure,

900
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,040
because of what you said.
So the reason, the reason I

901
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,600
think that is because of what
you said, 1265 isn't what we're

902
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,600
all doing, OK?
We, we already know and and

903
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,120
leaders already know that I'm
getting way more than that out

904
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,320
of my staff because they're
going above and beyond even just

905
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,800
doing that planning their
marking, etcetera.

906
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,640
So my point is, therefore
leaders shouldn't be scared to

907
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:31,880
be below that for the right of
time.

908
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,520
They shouldn't think to
themselves, oh gosh, we've got a

909
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,800
blank week in week 3 for our CPD
after school.

910
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,880
We have an hour.
I need to find.

911
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,560
No, you don't.
No, you don't.

912
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,680
It's OK every now and then to
say no meeting this week.

913
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:46,560
Thank you.
Not even no meeting this week.

914
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,120
Do this instead.
Yeah, not even no meeting this

915
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,360
week, but we'll do double the
week after.

916
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,080
No, no, no, no, no.
Sometimes you can just say to

917
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,720
your staff, no meeting this
week.

918
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:56,880
End of.
That's the end of the

919
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,400
conversation because because I
know you're not going to be

920
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,600
having a jolly.
I know that all that's going to

921
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,680
happen is when normally you'd go
home at half 5 because you had a

922
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,320
meeting that day.
You're going to go home at half

923
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,520
four.
I still getting the marking the

924
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,840
planning everything out of you,
but for the sake of having a

925
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,840
meeting, I didn't think, oh,
I've got to meet this.

926
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,760
No, you don't.
Teachers do more.

927
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,040
Go back to the initial point all
of the time.

928
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,640
Did you find that?
Did you did you actually ever

929
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,080
come across anyone who genuinely
only did directed time?

930
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,120
Because there are some people
out there who say just do

931
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,280
directed time and I just think.
How?

932
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,720
No, but I, I did, I have
genuinely mentioned the people

933
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:35,520
that got close, like some people
that work in like really, really

934
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,000
cool schools that have really
refined policies already on

935
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,720
things like marking right, where
they were genuinely able to come

936
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:45,160
in and leave not too far around
directed time.

937
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,520
I've never met anyone that could
actually come in at like 8:30

938
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,760
and leave at 3:45, whatever
their particular thing was.

939
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,000
But yeah, certainly some people
that were like, I don't have to

940
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,640
do anything at the weekend.
I was always like, how how do

941
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:56,960
you do that?
Then I realised most of it was

942
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,920
policy in that school genuinely,
which I was.

943
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,480
It was good.
Do you think that's a good

944
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:01,960
thing?
Because it does explicitly say

945
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,680
in our contract 1265 directed
and you have to do reasonable

946
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,720
extra hours.
So do you think it's fair to say

947
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,280
if someone only does directed
time, is it fair to say to them

948
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:13,680
that they're not actually
fulfilling their teacher

949
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,280
contract?
I mean, I based on the way it's

950
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,240
written right now, you could
have that discussion.

951
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,520
I think so.
But I think that's more down to

952
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,800
the semantics of the fact that
the way it's written, that's it.

953
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,200
I don't think.
I don't necessarily think it's

954
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,200
fair in actual reality.
But it also says teachers may be

955
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,080
required to work additional
hours to meet the needs of the

956
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:31,440
job.
Sure.

957
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,920
And it's like, that's fine.
It's like, well, I'm meeting the

958
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,440
needs of the job.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

959
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:36,760
And I don't have to as long as
they are.

960
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:37,360
That's the thing.
Yeah.

961
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,600
The conversation is so it's so
relevant.

962
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,720
Like it's up to what's happening
in that situation.

963
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:43,000
You know what I mean?
Like if they're actually meeting

964
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,320
the needs, then it's fine.
It's not a conversation.

965
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:45,960
It's because when people come
out saying we need to, to work

966
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,960
to rule, just go to directed
time, I always feel, I genuinely

967
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,600
always feel slightly
uncomfortable with that.

968
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,640
Only in that I do think it's
fair enough that someone can

969
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,280
say, well, you do have to do a
bit more than this directed time

970
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,680
because it literally is in your
contract that you've signed.

971
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,440
So I'm like a bit more.
But the issue comes where, like

972
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,280
you said, we're trying to find a
line, aren't we, with things

973
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:04,840
like this where what is
reasoning?

974
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,400
Exactly because this person I'm
glorifying right now, right?

975
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,200
Let's say they don't.
Let's say they get to school 8

976
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,000
and that's enough time for them
to just prep and get that stuff

977
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,720
ready for the day.
And between 3:30 and 4:15 or

978
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:19,640
even 4, let's say 4 every day,
they managed to get them any

979
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,880
mark and they need to get done.
And they've whipped up some

980
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:22,960
planning for next week as well,
right?

981
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,480
Let's just say they're doing 8
or 4 and that's still an hour a

982
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,320
day, roughly nearly or even even
45 minutes extra.

983
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,360
But to me, I'm like every single
day, 45 minutes overtime for

984
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,200
free.
That's that sounds very much

985
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,440
like it fulfils this reasonable
extra time to me, but we are all

986
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,360
gasoline into thinking that
that's.

987
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,040
That is not at lunch time.
Yeah, I bet they marked a lunch

988
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,040
right.
Exactly just like that.

989
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,520
That to me, I'm like that should
be the norm.

990
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:46,800
That's such and that's not the
norm.

991
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,800
That's like the minimum.
That's like the best case

992
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,120
scenario.
People doing this sort of stuff.

993
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,520
I don't think anyone's turning
up rocking up at 8:30 and

994
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,120
leaving it at 3:45 every single
day and doing absolutely zero in

995
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,800
their breaks, their lunch and
their weekends and their school

996
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:58,680
holidays.
It's not happening.

997
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,480
It's actually.
I genuinely would go as far as

998
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,520
saying that is impossible to
meet the absolute the basics of

999
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:04,720
the job.
You can't do it in direct.

1000
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:05,640
Time.
And that's essentially what I

1001
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,480
meant when I said the go above
and beyond just doing the.

1002
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:08,800
Basics of the job.
It's impossible.

1003
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,360
It's impossible.
Yeah, I agree, written marking

1004
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,160
is mostly a complete waste of
time.

1005
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,680
Direct verbal feedback and
instant intervention work best.

1006
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,120
Yeah, mostly.
It was a really important 1

1007
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,400
then.
I made sure I put.

1008
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,200
Mostly, if you didn't put mostly
I would have.

1009
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,960
I would have actually had a bit
of a disagreement because I

1010
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,360
think sometimes written marking
is so.

1011
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,160
Do you think mostly?
I think mostly, yeah.

1012
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,200
I do think mostly.
I think most of the time the

1013
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,200
verbal option is just more
effective and typically more

1014
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,520
instant as well.
By definition, written feedback,

1015
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,120
there is a delay between the
child doing the work and getting

1016
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,160
that feedback, by definition,
because you've got to have time

1017
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,320
to write it down.
Verbal feedback can be instant,

1018
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,720
and it typically is because it'd
be kind of weird to give verbal

1019
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:46,160
feedback the three days later.
By the way.

1020
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:47,800
Yeah, yeah.
You know, you said about this

1021
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,040
sense when we did that, but Aura
scene class really good that.

1022
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,760
And, and if you think about like
especially foundation subjects,

1023
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,720
sometimes you might get like a
week between lessons.

1024
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:57,040
Yeah.
And like it, it just is a bit

1025
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,040
odd to have that written
feedback that that much later

1026
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,440
where it's so detached.
And I think that's where it's

1027
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,600
important to do recapping and
stuff and having discussions

1028
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,400
with the with with your class
when you start the next lesson.

1029
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,520
But how much more powerful is it
in the lesson to go?

1030
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,560
A few misconceptions here, guys.
Right now, whilst we're in this

1031
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,160
lesson, let's look at them.
Yeah, yeah.

1032
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,000
I agree.
I saw a really interesting

1033
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,760
TikTok a few weeks ago from a an
educator and they were just

1034
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,520
sharing what they do and in
their job, they're a primary

1035
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,920
school teacher and they were
saying their particular workflow

1036
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,480
is that on a like a Friday or
something like that or the

1037
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,600
weekend they take home all of
their books to mark and they do

1038
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,440
like what a massive mark a week.
And I thought it was really,

1039
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,080
really interesting because my
gut, my gut reaction to that was

1040
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,040
this is like the worst of both
worlds completely.

1041
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,200
Because I was like written
marking is in most situations,

1042
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,240
as we're agreeing, it's not even
the best form of feedback

1043
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:47,280
anyway.
And it's definitely not the best

1044
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,960
form of feedback when it's been
left for six days and you're,

1045
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,720
and you're doing 6 lessons at
once. 5 lessons.

1046
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:53,320
Imagine you're marking 5 maths
lessons.

1047
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:54,680
Honestly, after you've done it,
I.

1048
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,080
Love how you went for six days.
Yeah, I know.

1049
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,800
Literally.
What I'm thinking 6 maths

1050
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,800
lessons in a week somehow.
But like after the first of

1051
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,320
these five maths lessons.
But you need to be back

1052
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,200
instantly before you do the
whole point is this like this

1053
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,320
progression is the next one.
Honestly after 5 maths lessons,

1054
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,480
going back and marking the first
one is irrelevant.

1055
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:12,800
You might as well just not do
it.

1056
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,320
Yeah, I'd love to hear the
reasoning behind that.

1057
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,600
Maybe they've got a reason, but
I can't imagine.

1058
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,240
I just can't imagine that
because maths is especially

1059
00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:22,200
maths is so intricately laid out
most of the time and you have to

1060
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:23,360
know this before you know that.
Yeah.

1061
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,520
And like, what is the point of
taking or crossing that then?

1062
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,200
Genuinely, that's fascinating.
It's.

1063
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,360
Mad.
This is probably my probably one

1064
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:36,760
of my most strongly held views.
The role of a SENCO in a school

1065
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,600
should be a full time role and
not balanced amongst 214 other

1066
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,320
jobs.
That's interesting.

1067
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,960
Tell me why.
I couldn't believe more strongly

1068
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,520
that the role of a SENCO in the
modern education world, in

1069
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,920
school is by far the hardest
role that there is because

1070
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,520
there's a rising need clearly in
our next generation and there's

1071
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,600
less funding than ever before,
external services and help for

1072
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,040
these Sencos.
It's been decimated.

1073
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,920
And what's even more insane, as
you look at this happening,

1074
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,920
right?
And you think this is crazy?

1075
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,880
God, I don't know how these
Sencos are doing it.

1076
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,800
What, you've got a math set that
you teach every morning and an

1077
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,600
English set, What?
You only get 3 afternoons to do

1078
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,800
your Senco role?
What are we doing?

1079
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,680
It's insane.
How on earth can we think that

1080
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,840
we are providing children with
what they need with special

1081
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,680
educational needs when the
person coordinating it in the

1082
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,160
school is not even committing
their full time role to it?

1083
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,000
It's outrageous and I've seen it
before.

1084
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,600
Trust with three, 4-5 schools
will have one SENCO.

1085
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,800
Yeah, so that does become their
full time role, but they've got

1086
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,840
5 schools.
The it's so rare now to see I'm

1087
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,480
in, I'm in this school, you
know, with all these children,

1088
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,720
and this person is the special
educational needs coordinator.

1089
00:42:57,720 --> 00:42:59,520
And that is what they do.
That is what they do, it's their

1090
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,360
specialism and they coordinate
everything that's needed for

1091
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,600
these children.
And there are points where as a

1092
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,400
Senco also, I need to get these
external people in, I need to

1093
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,200
get these people in, I need to
help with diagnosis and stuff.

1094
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,680
You can't do everything #1
Sencos are expected to do

1095
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:18,080
everything with less time in the
role than ever before and less

1096
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,440
external help than ever before,
and what they're end up getting

1097
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,120
is in the neck when they can't
provide something.

1098
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,160
My child needs a one to one.
Yeah, they do, they really do.

1099
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,120
That costs the school 26 grand.
We've got 10 grand of funding.

1100
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,240
I can't find that 16,000 lbs.
Yeah.

1101
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,440
Also, I've got to go and plan my
maths for tomorrow.

1102
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:39,000
You should not be thinking about
anything else.

1103
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,520
Also, you're one of six parents
in the same position right now.

1104
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:42,640
Yeah.
So actually, it's a school we've

1105
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,480
got to find, you know, near 100
grand.

1106
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:45,400
Exactly.
And what?

1107
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,120
Yeah.
It's insane.

1108
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,040
I really, really strongly
believe that we are just

1109
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,360
pretending that everything's OK.
Yeah, we're just pretending.

1110
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,440
And people in the role know it's
not OK Everyone in the system

1111
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,560
knows it's not OK.
But still, for some reason it

1112
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,720
feels like we're just like, Nah.
Yeah.

1113
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,440
And what do you mean?
And so much just trickles down

1114
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,360
onto schools in terms of
responsibility as well.

1115
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,480
I feel like the current the
government at the moment are

1116
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,320
like, Oh yeah, yeah, we'll just
we'll just get teachers

1117
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:14,080
diagnosing it.
They.

1118
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,600
Can assess kids.
They can assess it.

1119
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,440
They can just do that basically
doing it anyway.

1120
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,280
They can just do it.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

1121
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:20,960
It's already unmanageable.
So what?

1122
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,520
I don't even I already don't
even have a Sango full time to

1123
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,320
even support me on this.
And and they're better trained

1124
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,520
than me and even they are
struggling with the amount of

1125
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,280
differing need.
Like there are so many

1126
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,640
complexities to human beings.
Yeah.

1127
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,240
I agree it's OK to say that you
should be focusing your

1128
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:38,000
attention on one thing and be a
specialist, especially when it

1129
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,840
comes to this role, which is
vital for so many kids.

1130
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,040
It's not Willy nilly, it's not a
thing that's nice to have.

1131
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,520
It's a thing every every single
school should have.

1132
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,000
I really think that.
Do you think the Senko can share

1133
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,120
any role?
Do you think they could be like

1134
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:53,480
the family liaison officer as
well?

1135
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:54,680
For sure.
I think, I think there's,

1136
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,000
there's maybe some situations
where that can happen.

1137
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,520
Yeah, right.
But I just think that's where

1138
00:44:58,520 --> 00:44:59,520
how we ended up where we are
now.

1139
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,240
Oh, well, the CENCO can do that
as well, can't they?

1140
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:03,920
Or they can do that, Sure.
They just take groups.

1141
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,240
Yeah.
They can just do an intervention

1142
00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:06,800
like, you know, half an hour and
assembly every day.

1143
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:07,680
Oh yeah.
What's that going to do?

1144
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,960
I think it needs to be ring
fenced and I think that's why.

1145
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,120
And I think it just needs to be
OK.

1146
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,240
Look for X amount of pupils and
X amount of need that you might

1147
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:18,640
have.
This person needs X amount of

1148
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,960
time and it should be way lower
in terms of when that becomes a

1149
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,040
full time job because currently
hundreds and hundreds and

1150
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,400
hundreds of children are getting
a part time senco.

1151
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,600
And I don't know how you do this
job guys, if you're listening to

1152
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,320
this and you're a senco, I could
not have more respect for you

1153
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,680
and admire you and just think
that you're doing an amazing job

1154
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,360
for A next generation with
everything you can.

1155
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,600
I think you're amazing and I
think you need more help and I

1156
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,960
hope you know I'm not trying to
be patronising at all.

1157
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,440
Give these people what they need
because it means the kids get

1158
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:48,400
what they need.
I agree.

1159
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,880
Couldn't I agree?
Very passionate there, Dylan.

1160
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,560
Very passionate, right?
Let's do a few more.

1161
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,000
Primary schools should be
smartphone free places for

1162
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,240
children.
Worst case, hand them into the

1163
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:00,880
office and pick them up at the
end of the day.

1164
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,160
Could not agree more.
That's like.

1165
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,280
That's my version of like you.
No one convinced me that's not

1166
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,160
true.
It is impossible like I've seen

1167
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:10,600
it first hand.
Can I give you the only push

1168
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,000
back where I thought go on,
that's true.

1169
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,440
Go on.
The only one, go on.

1170
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,800
Smartphones are sometimes used
to things like children with

1171
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,120
diabetes to track where they're
on.

1172
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,720
They've got a smartphone in the
school and I'll start.

1173
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,000
That to me is just different.
Not what I'm saying.

1174
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,360
It's just not always saying if
anyone that you're clutching at

1175
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,840
straws.
If that's going OK, OK, that

1176
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,240
child can have their life saving
device that happens to be called

1177
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:37,240
a smartphone as well.
We're talking clearly about

1178
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:41,120
children using smartphones to go
on social media.

1179
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,560
That is what we are talking
about.

1180
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,960
That is all realistically
smartphones are used for.

1181
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:47,640
Someone else says oh but I need
to ring my child.

1182
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,720
Give them a Nokia, give them a
give them not a smart, give them

1183
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:51,960
a phone.
Ring in the school.

1184
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:52,920
Don't give them a smartphone.
Yeah.

1185
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,240
But even that I I respect
parents that like, I'm just

1186
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,920
really anxious and my kids
anxious and they've just started

1187
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:00,720
walking home.
They're in Year 5 now.

1188
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,480
But they can pick up their
smartphone at the end of the.

1189
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,320
Day that's fine yes that's true.
That's absolutely there's loads

1190
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,240
of options right, but even if
they're down to like they don't

1191
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:08,920
do any of these things.
I just want my kids to have a

1192
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,400
phone and I want it to be in
their bag.

1193
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:11,560
I don't trust anyone or
anything.

1194
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:12,840
It has to be with them at all
times.

1195
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,640
OK, don't give them a smartphone
then, Just give them a phone.

1196
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,960
Go to Tesco, get a 10 LB Nokia
brick and give them that and

1197
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:21,320
plum it in.
Make sure there's loads a credit

1198
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,680
on it and that then it serves
the purpose.

1199
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,960
If you're arguing that's the
purpose, you cannot come back to

1200
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,040
me of anything with that one.
Anything else is like, no,

1201
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:29,480
you're just, you just want them
to have a smartphone.

1202
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,000
Want an 800 LB iPhone?
Actually, yeah.

1203
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,560
No, Yeah, I want to make a
TikTok on the way out of school.

1204
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,480
Yeah, I want them to sneak off
to the toilet because they can

1205
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,080
get their phone in their bag or
they can get their phone from

1206
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,760
somewhere else in the school and
they can make a video and breach

1207
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,240
every safeguarding policy ever.
I I just think it's so

1208
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:45,400
objectively absolutely terrible
and there are so many solutions.

1209
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,680
I cannot get my head around why
it's not just solved.

1210
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,280
I cannot fathom why it wasn't
just like someone said years

1211
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,040
ago, oh we just drop off
smartphones in the school, we

1212
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,680
have these lockers for them all
but something where these kids

1213
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,400
absolutely have 0 access all day
and everyone didn't just go Oh

1214
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:00,760
yeah cool yeah let's do that
then.

1215
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,120
No, they need them.
No, they don't.

1216
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:04,360
Sometimes they use them in
secondary school.

1217
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,280
OK, no.
No, but no, But no.

1218
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,800
The answer to children needing a
smart device to access the

1219
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,200
curriculum is not.
Well, if you have an iPhone, you

1220
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:14,160
get to do it.
And if you don't?

1221
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:15,920
If you don't have an iPhone, you
don't get to do it.

1222
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:16,520
Yeah.
What?

1223
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,680
What planet are we living on?
It doesn't matter that you

1224
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,400
sometimes use them.
Everything you do in the school

1225
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,720
should be based on the fact of
assumption that they don't have

1226
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:25,360
a smartphone.
I agree on them.

1227
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:26,960
It's standardised, it's
standard.

1228
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,120
Yeah.
And then if we want to do

1229
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,440
anything that's on technology,
the school has a technology.

1230
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:31,960
Exactly.
We give it out, it's vetted,

1231
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,680
there's only stuff in there we
want them to use and it's

1232
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,320
supervised.
And if you don't have it, it is

1233
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,120
tough.
Genuinely, it is at that point

1234
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:38,800
where it's like, oh, well, we
haven't got the tech as a

1235
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,640
school, I'm sorry.
Then it's not a solution.

1236
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,160
The solution isn't let the kids
have their smartphones.

1237
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,200
Let's let 30 kids have it and
that one kid doesn't have their

1238
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:47,640
smartphone because their family
can't afford it.

1239
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,480
Yeah.
No, no, you can't take part.

1240
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,520
And they have the branded
uniform and they've been off

1241
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,160
because I'm on think I'm in in
the morning and they're not

1242
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,520
going to get the attendance
award at the end.

1243
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,800
Imagine being that kid.
Oh, it winds me up so much.

1244
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,000
I feel like so many of the
decisions that are in school

1245
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,720
come from a place of people who
aren't like seeing these

1246
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:07,520
children who just, I think
sometimes they genuinely think

1247
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,480
they're helping.
And I can't shake them enough to

1248
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,640
just say, Can you imagine that
one child where the five things

1249
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,720
we talked about today all
compound on them?

1250
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,280
Why would he want to come to
school?

1251
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,320
It's just, it's just outrageous.
And primary school back to

1252
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,240
primary school, it's just even
worse.

1253
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:24,040
There is a difference that that
it is just the worst thing that

1254
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,320
ever happened to kids that
having having access to social

1255
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,200
media, genuinely, genuinely like
having access to messenger

1256
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,640
messenger devices and social
media on like on instant access

1257
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:34,240
in their pocket.
It's honestly the worst thing

1258
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:35,800
that ever happened to 10 year
olds and below.

1259
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,000
It's just so bad in every way.
And I think even here, I stopped

1260
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,720
short of saying, like, kids
shouldn't have them because I

1261
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:44,680
was like, I stopped.
I'm to my education in school

1262
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:45,880
and what we can control.
Yeah.

1263
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:47,960
I can't control if a parent buys
an iPhone or not.

1264
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,400
No, my goodness me, I'd add to
this list.

1265
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:50,840
Don't get your kind of
smartphone.

1266
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,440
Yeah, I can definitely say until
secondary school, I can

1267
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,640
definitely say that I'd probably
say 1314 thousand.

1268
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,600
You've had a choice.
It's just insane and what it

1269
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,160
does to them.
What it does to all of us.

1270
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:03,560
I know.
Not completely.

1271
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:07,640
Thing was just adults with 44
brains, a kid developing.

1272
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,040
Yeah.
It's just getting dopamine hits

1273
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,040
from scrolling and seeing stuff
they shouldn't and being

1274
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:13,920
impressionable.
It's scary, man.

1275
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,120
I really, I really don't like
it.

1276
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,120
Well, I'm going to try and wish
for the last couple.

1277
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,680
OK, so let's try and do them
nice and quickly.

1278
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,800
Excessive screen time alongside
unsupervised free time on

1279
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:30,720
devices is bad, but blanketly
calling for no screen time at

1280
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:34,240
all when it can have amazing
benefits for children is a huge

1281
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:36,520
leap straight to you now.
Yep, we've just spent a long

1282
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,320
time saying how it's disgusting
and awful and social media and

1283
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:40,760
the algorithm on smartphones
shouldn't happen.

1284
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:44,920
OK, Defend screen time then.
Cool, because because algorithms

1285
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,800
and and social media does not
equal screen, it's not the same

1286
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:49,840
you you might use as a device
it.

1287
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,520
Happens on the screen.
But it happens on a screen, but

1288
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,280
you can also use screens for
really good things, which is why

1289
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:54,840
in schools, when it when they're
saying it should also be

1290
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,280
standardised, the school should
have have iPads or whatever it

1291
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,720
is with standardised technology
where everyone gets access to

1292
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:01,160
this technology.
They're not inherently bad.

1293
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,080
In fact, they're not bad at all.
They're actually really.

1294
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:03,920
Really.
They're actually really good.

1295
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:04,920
Yeah.
It's not even really neutral.

1296
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:06,320
Yeah.
So when someone comes up to you,

1297
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,880
if a parent comes up to you and
says, listen, my kids in this

1298
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,520
school, I don't need any screen
time, though.

1299
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,120
Yeah.
What genuinely would you say to

1300
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:13,640
them?
I'd say to them, can we clarify

1301
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,520
what you mean by screen time?
And they say I literally just

1302
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,000
don't want the state funded
school that I have to send my

1303
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,240
child to to provide any learning
that has to be done by a screen.

1304
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:23,760
I want there to be an option
where there's no screens.

1305
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,040
Tough.
Honestly, I don't know at that,

1306
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:28,560
but there's got to be a point
where I'm like, but you're just

1307
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:29,880
wrong.
We're educators for a reason.

1308
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:31,760
We went to university for three
years to learn about this for a

1309
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:32,320
reason.
You didn't.

1310
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:33,800
I'm sorry.
Yeah, but do you think we really

1311
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,120
went to school and learnt about
the benefits of screen time or

1312
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:36,480
not?
No.

1313
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,080
Of course.
I wouldn't be able to say that.

1314
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,720
Fine, but what I'm trying what
I'd say is we know how education

1315
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:42,760
works better.
I'm sorry and that sounds and

1316
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,160
we're.
Not talking about glue to

1317
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:45,360
screens or.
Yeah, I can.

1318
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,720
I'll explain to them that we
don't, they don't have any

1319
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:49,480
access to social media apps.
They can't message other, they

1320
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,800
can't break any of our
safeguarding policies or or

1321
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:53,280
breach.
Literally anything they're doing

1322
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:54,720
maths or reading.
Yeah, rather than picking up a

1323
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:56,560
pencil and a bit of paper,
they're picking up a stylus and

1324
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:57,560
a thing.
And they're using this app for

1325
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,040
for 10, for 10 minutes, like,
and, and I'll happily walk you

1326
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:01,920
through all of them if you want
to.

1327
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,160
You can see how these apps work.
You can see what they do, but

1328
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,360
they're learning software.
Here's all the proven data that

1329
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,200
shows they have a really, really
positive impact on children.

1330
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,360
That's why we're using it.
If you if, you know, we can't

1331
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,520
really opt out.
It's like saying I don't want my

1332
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,800
kid to do geography.
Sorry but this is part of the

1333
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,760
they're in the school so.
Yeah, just cool.

1334
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,760
Creative subjects are being
squeezed far too much in school

1335
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,320
in favour of cramming more
traditional subjects, and this

1336
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,000
is bad for everyone.
Easy 1 to do, really quick.

1337
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,800
It goes back to the bloated
argument of maths and English

1338
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,720
are too bloated, therefore
creative subjects being squashed

1339
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:32,800
out.
I think that's bad squash.

1340
00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:36,240
I've been squashed all right.
What made that?

1341
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:38,520
No, I don't.
Know we we picked up on it, but

1342
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,560
yeah, I mean, I think that's
just self-explanatory.

1343
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,320
I think if you're not doing any
music anymore, or any drama or

1344
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,200
any art because you think you've
got to do some cramming for some

1345
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,840
maths and English, check
yourself.

1346
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,520
Children get the most out of
school when parents and staff

1347
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,560
are on the same page.
Back each other up and work

1348
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,640
together to provide solutions.
Pretty separate I.

1349
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:58,480
Think that's really.
Yeah, that's obviously true

1350
00:52:58,480 --> 00:52:59,640
because it is a team.
Let's push.

1351
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,160
Because we talked about this
last week, let's just not

1352
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,120
towards it.
This idea of I said if I had a

1353
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,200
disagreement with the school and
it was me, my son's teacher and

1354
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,680
my son, in that moment, I would
not undermine the school or the

1355
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,080
teacher.
I think it just comes down to

1356
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:13,240
that.
That's what I mean there.

1357
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,080
Even if as a as a parent you
have a problem and you don't

1358
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,440
agree with something,
undermining the relationship

1359
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,640
between your child and the
school they go to is the worst

1360
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:23,240
thing you can do.
I agree because they are

1361
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:27,040
literally spending six hours a
day potentially with this person

1362
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,320
who is teaching them how to be a
human being.

1363
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,400
Like we really shouldn't be
teaching our kids to undermine

1364
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:32,040
them.
Exactly.

1365
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,200
So me and the teacher, we can
work together to try and do

1366
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:35,680
something.
Even if you disagree, you can

1367
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,560
professionally disagree.
I can professionally disagree

1368
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:38,920
with you.
We don't have to then like

1369
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:40,960
undermine each other.
In front of the I do undermine

1370
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:41,960
you.
That you do all the time and it

1371
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:43,680
is embarrassing.
Yeah, that's what I'll continue

1372
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,360
to do.
So last two, they're big ones,

1373
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:46,480
but let's just mention them
quickly.

1374
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,320
I'm going to wrap it up.
When school staff go on strike,

1375
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,160
it's because we care about the
kids, not the opposite as some

1376
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:53,720
media outlets will have you
think.

1377
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,320
Literally I start this podcast.
Yeah, Episode 1.

1378
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:57,640
What?
I teach is going on strike what

1379
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:58,440
I.
Teach is going on strike.

1380
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,080
Go back and listen to it and
tell us how.

1381
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,480
Over why?
Hello, I'm doing my podcast

1382
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:03,800
voice from the start of the
podcast.

1383
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:04,520
Why do you think?
Strike.

1384
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:05,960
Oh no, stop.
We need to edit everything.

1385
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,280
Go on, explain what you mean
really quick, because that's.

1386
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,680
When even, even if it comes down
to teachers getting paid more,

1387
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,560
which is the ultimate version,
people say, well, that's

1388
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:14,600
selfish.
You just want more pay.

1389
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,480
Yeah, I do want more pay because
otherwise we'll leave in droves.

1390
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,840
And if we leave in droves, I'm
really qualified.

1391
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,360
More inexperienced staff will
come in without qualified

1392
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:23,680
teachers who are not getting
paid enough.

1393
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,400
Children will miss out on the
long term because of that.

1394
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:30,080
So even down to the most selfish
thing you can think about is

1395
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,160
what?
I just want more pay that is all

1396
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,560
rooted in because I want
retention to be better, because

1397
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,880
I want better teachers in front
of the children, because I want

1398
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,240
a more balanced school where
it's not just loaded with

1399
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,720
inexperienced staff who are
pushing into this broken system

1400
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:46,600
that cheaper and therefore
because I want the best for the

1401
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,800
kids.
So you can, you know, ignore

1402
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,400
everything that's obviously
about the kids in terms of

1403
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,960
literal funding for schools to
help children the most, you

1404
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,920
know, egregious example of how
horrible teachers are and

1405
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:00,320
selfish does feedback to though
it's because we want the best.

1406
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:01,960
Course it does.
I think it's so obvious as well.

1407
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:06,800
Any example ever, It's like you
pay more money for better skill

1408
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:07,480
work.
That's it.

1409
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,160
It's just how it works.
You pay more money for better

1410
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:10,760
skilled workers.
That's it.

1411
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,160
So if you, if you are by
definition, if you're saying

1412
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,400
let's keep defunding teachers
and making the pay lower and

1413
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,480
lower and lower, you are just by
definition saying the average

1414
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,680
skilled worker will just go
down.

1415
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:22,960
That's just how it works.
Just just on just to finish that

1416
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,720
off potentially is just to say I
think we're not remotely

1417
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:27,840
focusing on retention enough and
we're still focusing on

1418
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,120
recruitment.
We get that, you know, 30 grand

1419
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:31,880
minimum as a starting thing,
cool.

1420
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,680
But we're bleeding our most
experienced and in and often

1421
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,920
best educators who need to be in
the school to make the new

1422
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,240
teachers better.
You have to have that mix.

1423
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:44,360
It's just insane.
Last one big one, but let's see

1424
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,160
what you think.
Systemic cutting and

1425
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,680
underfunding of the education
system and it's external

1426
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,520
services are at fault for almost
everything bad we see in

1427
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,160
schools, and the managed decline
is frightening when you look at

1428
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,280
how much more schools are
expected to do now with less and

1429
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:00,840
less.
What a lovely one to end on.

1430
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,840
Listen to any episode that we've
ever done on this podcast and

1431
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,200
you'll know that generally the
conclusion of to why something

1432
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,920
is not the way it should be or
why it's wrong is because

1433
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,440
there's not enough money and
money fixes everything.

1434
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,200
Oh baby.
Just as though it starts from

1435
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:17,760
there.
You can't pay people to do their

1436
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:19,040
jobs properly.
Your jobs don't get done

1437
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:20,880
properly.
Yeah, there's only so long you

1438
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,920
can get away with cutting,
cutting and cutting and cutting

1439
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,600
and cutting before the the
chickens come home to roost.

1440
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:27,640
And ultimately lovely.
And ultimately, who does it

1441
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,120
impact?
Me, You.

1442
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,960
But ultimately, ultimately the
kids.

1443
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,120
The kids lose out.
Exactly.

1444
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,680
And that is, I hope you really
get this.

1445
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,200
I really care about the next
generation.

1446
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:39,800
I really care about the next
generation.

1447
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,920
It's why I loved being a teacher
and I loved helping them out.

1448
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:46,920
And it makes me annoyed to see
that so many people saw that

1449
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,080
post and so many amazing
teachers went, yeah, God, that's

1450
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:51,680
right.
Absolutely true.

1451
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:53,800
Give it six months.
Nothing change.

1452
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:55,280
Nothing will change.
Of course it won't.

1453
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,920
How can we make it change?
And this way, you're so

1454
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,120
negative.
No, I'm realistic.

1455
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,880
And we need a voice together to
say, what on earth are you

1456
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,240
doing, guys?
Let's push back common sense

1457
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:08,720
I'm.
Looking forward to in a week's

1458
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:11,040
time when you've thought of
another 15 things and you do

1459
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,960
another post 50 more things and
we'll do in our episode we'll

1460
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:14,280
talk about those well.
Very quickly.

1461
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,240
You mentioned at the top because
I know you wanted to talk about

1462
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,560
class sizes.
Yeah, It's just another thing,

1463
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:19,080
isn't it?
Yeah.

1464
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,240
Class.
Why do we think 32 children in

1465
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:22,120
the room is going to be a good
thing?

1466
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:23,600
I know.
That I've asked, go on your next

1467
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:24,760
list and you give me some
credit.

1468
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,040
I never won really quick
Tasmania, just we didn't talk

1469
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,000
about Tasmania at all, just the
fact that diminishing role of TA

1470
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:30,720
in the classroom despite them
being essential.

1471
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,480
Yeah, it used to be that.
Used to be the TA in every

1472
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:33,720
single classroom.
Do you know we'll get to that

1473
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,280
Part 2, aren't we?
We have to see a Part 2 of this.

1474
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:36,960
More than at the start, yeah.
Yeah.

1475
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,480
For this little cheeky hook for
the next one.

1476
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,560
Cheeky, cheeky outro.
It's all hooks here, that's what

1477
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:42,720
we do.
Do you know what they can do if

1478
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,880
they love this episode though?
It'll really help us go on Eve's

1479
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:46,720
a review where we get your
podcast, Share it with someone.

1480
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,640
Sharing is the big one that
helps us massively.

1481
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,160
So please, please, please do
that.

1482
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,000
Join our WhatsApp community down
below for priority access to

1483
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,640
asking us questions.
I enjoyed that.

1484
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,080
I like having that talk.
I hope you'll agree, Hayden.

1485
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:00,480
Anything safe?
We're going just.

1486
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,360
Adding to what you said, sharing
is caring.

1487
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,640
Spread the love and we'll see
you next time when we talk about

1488
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:05,880
more stuff like this.
Bye.

1489
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:07,240
What sign off?