Ep 143: Listener Questions: Gender Stereotypes, Lesson Plan Formats & Getting Secondary Ready!

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach,

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Sneak, Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
And we're back with another

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question and answer episode.
And Hayden, OR where can these

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lovely people submit their
questions?

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Well, they can submit them
through the WhatsApp community,

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which we're seeing lots of
people join.

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Keep joining, please, guys.
Lovely.

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Lutely.
We're starting up a few groups

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in there as well, some
discussions.

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We've got a group for teacher
trainers who can Teachers,

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trainees.
Yeah, wear them on their shoes.

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I think teachers, you can put
your trainers on it, teach you

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how to walk.
You've got some teacher trainers

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brand new.
You can get them now in our

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group.
Teach you repeat merch coming

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soon.
Yeah, literally we've got some

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WhatsApp groups that you can
choose to join or not where you

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can speak to other professionals
and maybe going through the same

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thing as you.
But if you just want

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announcements, just messages
from Hayden line, just links to

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brand new episodes and if they
drop.

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And also importantly, priority
access to submitting questions

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to be answered on the podcast.
Hayden every single question

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here, much like the weeks
before.

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I've stopped going to Instagram
now because they all come from

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the WhatsApp group.
If anything, we get too many,

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don't we?
It's incredible how nice.

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Thank you everybody for
supplying us so many great

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questions.
Absolutely.

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We've probably got enough to do
us for the next 10 episodes, but

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we will keep asking.
We'll keep putting the link out

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there.
And if we do answer your

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question, thank you.
If we don't keep submitting, we

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may well pick your question
soon.

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With that in mind, should we get
started?

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Let's do it.
Do you want to start or should I

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start?
I shall start.

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Go on then.
What's the weirdest school rule

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you have ever had to enforce?
Oh, I guess teaching.

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Just.
What just teachers had to teach,

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He's had to listen to me teach.
Yeah, weird.

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That is a weird.
That's weirdly you.

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Yeah, because all we do in
school is just indoctrinate them

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into our ways.
So it's very weird.

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You want me to teach them how
to?

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Get weird.
Sorry, I do think just a phrase

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coming back to mind.
A left wokey wokey lefty beta

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teacher, is that you?
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's all of

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us.
And that's why it's so odd

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asking me to teach your child
how to read.

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Come on.
Very bizarre.

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Seriously, Dylan, what is the
weirdest school rule you've ever

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had to enforce?
Realistically, if I think back

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to the start of my career there,
there came a point because of a

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culmination of rules.
This is like AI guess this is

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like 3 or 4 things at once that
I had to get the kids to do

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because there are about 5
different people within the

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school all telling us that kids
had to do something at the end

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of a lesson.
Oh yeah.

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So I had to enforce that to the
children.

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But when 5 different people are
telling you 5 different things

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to do at the end, the end of the
lesson becomes longer than the

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input itself.
And I would get to the end of a

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lesson and I'd be sat there
going, right, kids, I'd get my

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sheets of stickers out because
we had to put stickers in the

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book for marking stuff.
All right, let's self assess

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kids.
And I'd go around and hand out a

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sticker to all the kids, stick
it in your book and you have to

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self assess.
I call it now, OK, now I've got

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my peer assessment in my peer
assessment stickers, right?

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You've assessed yourself.
Now swap your books over, kids,

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swap, swap in your partner and
then write down a little note

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for them.
Two smileys and the next step,

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please.
And then the next thing would

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be, all right, can you rate your
involvement in this lesson?

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Oh my God, it's.
Really not about that.

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We recently had a this staff
meeting.

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Honestly, in isolation, I'm not
completely against install of

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these ideas, right.
The idea of children being aware

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of like how involved they're on
the lesson.

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I can get that.
I can understand why that might

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be helpful at some point, but
every single lesson at the end

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we have to write here's another
sticker, guys, here's another

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sticker stick in your book and
rate you're what did they?

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Do 1.
I can't.

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Was it?
Was that one to five?

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One to five?
Yeah, one to five.

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And the child had to rate how
involved they thought they were

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in that lesson.
Yeah.

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So you guess what happened.
Every single child put five on

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one.
Everyone put five on one.

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Yeah, this kid who, like, was
not involved whatsoever in the

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lesson, just wasn't interested,
not focused whatsoever.

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Got to the end, got their stick.
I slapped him at 5.

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Someone's seen the book though.
This.

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You've got this kid involved
you.

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Would though, wouldn't you?
When I was that kid, I'd be

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like, oh, I was drifting off the
whole time.

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But I tell you what.
Do I get to pick my own level of

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behaviour and involvement?
What's the repercussions?

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Well now you've explained that
I'm A5 mental.

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It but it genuinely got to that
point where we were enforcing

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somebody and it was just bizarre
because I'd I'd have to stand

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there instead of like, I don't
know, this novel idea what we

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touched upon earlier of me
teaching the kids instead of

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doing that for another 5 to 10
minutes.

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We had to just tick these boxes
because because there were

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weekly book looks and I feel
like whatever rules teachers

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think are stupid in forcing down
on the kids obvious.

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That's a rule that's being
enforced down on me.

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And maybe even the person above
me who's making all teachers do

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it is maybe having someone
breathing down their neck.

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Yeah.
And it's just like, yeah, who at

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the end is like the group of
people who get the least out of?

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It's the kids.
Yeah.

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Because the kids have to sit
there doing honestly genuine

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nonsense at the end of every
single lesson.

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And I was the teacher and I knew
it was nonsense.

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And the decision makers are not
even in the classroom.

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So everyone in the classroom at
that point, we all agree and

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think it's mental.
This is not.

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But we all have to do it.
And I have to enforce it to the

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kids.
And it's just.

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That is, that is the trickle
down impact, isn't it?

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Of like like you said it is.
I'm glad that you nodded to the

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fact that it's not, it's not
always just like a head teacher

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or an SL team.
That's like, I want to do this

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thing.
Quite often it is back all the

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way down to Ofsted pressure.
Genuinely, they, even if it's

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not real, this is The funny
thing.

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They think for whatever reason,
real or not, Ofsted want to see

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this thing, thing.
I'll implement this policy.

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Here you go, SLT.
We need to do this now.

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Get this to your teams.
Cool heads of years start going

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right.
We gotta get this in, guys.

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They interpret it slightly
differently and then, like you

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said, gets to the classroom.
Everyone thinks it's pointless.

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It is pointless.
Yeah, yeah, then.

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And like you get the individual
things.

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I think you could probably argue
that some of those have their

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place and some of them are maybe
pointless, probably.

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Yeah, OK, but but, but the point
being that when it's five people

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all just doing their job, not
not even trying to be horrible

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or anything like that, but like,
OK, I'm in charge of this, I'm

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in charge of that, You're in
charge of this.

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Yeah, every single one of them
individually thinks that the end

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of the lesson is a great time to
do something.

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You don't really think of the
repercussions until you're the

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teacher in the class enforcing
these crazy rules on the kids,

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where actually you get there and
you're like, I've got 17 piles

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of stickers and the kids need to
stick them all in.

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And then when I mark their work,
more of the pages covered in my

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assessment stickers than it is
in the work the kids have done,

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and I end up working harder than
the kids because I'm enforcing

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this rule on the kids and
wasting their time.

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I'd rather than spend 5 more
minutes reading.

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I'd rather than spend 5 more
minutes going on to the

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challenge parts.
They rather than spend 5 more

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minutes explain their reasoning
in the maths lesson rather than

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writing down how much reasoning
they did.

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But why don't you do the
reasoning?

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Why don't you be?
Involved it's like just

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plenaries in general.
That's why anyone that's not in

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the teaching world is Plenary
was very much the the name for

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this like the end bit of the
lesson where you do this sort of

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stuff.
How quickly did they stop being

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a thing in your Because I
remember when I was at

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university, it was very much
taught.

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At that time, 10 years ago, a
lesson structure was really like

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you've got your introduction,
you've got your main bit of the

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lesson, you've got your plenary
at the end, and you might have

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some mini plenaries throughout
the lesson.

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It was very much a thing still.
I think it's been debunked a bit

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more since then.
I.

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Don't as it actually been
debunked.

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I just think it's been debunked
because I don't think it.

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Has by debunked, I didn't mean
debunked, I meant like it's I

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don't think it's as commonly
like pushed onto people now as a

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thing to do.
I think it's just a here is a

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practise that that could be
good.

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Whereas to me, for when I was at
uni, it was very much like you.

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Absolutely.
Have to do this.

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I think you're wrong.
If anything.

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That's gone the other way.
Do you think?

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Yeah, we've talked about a
million times.

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Way more prescriptive now than
ever before.

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Very prescriptive.
Person like university.

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Very in uni style as well, but
very prescriptive in general.

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Like it's not just a, oh, it's a
plenary is a thing you can kind

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of do.
Teachers more than ever are

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being told, no, you do exactly
this in every single lesson.

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Like we've literally spoken
about before, people get in

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touch now.
Like, no, no, your lesson

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structure is this.
And then you have to do a paired

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talk talking task.
And then you have to do this

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because the research said this
is best for everyone.

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And then you have to finish off
by going over everything.

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You have to finish off by doing
this.

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And, and yeah, I think if
anything, it's got worse.

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And I don't think it's been
debunked.

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And I'd and I'd be very
hesitant.

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And I've never, ever said that
the pedagogical research behind

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all of these things is
automatically a bad.

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I'm not saying that it can have
its benefits and I think it is

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good most of the time to do.
My issue comes when it's so

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prescriptive.
And I still, I'm yet to be

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convinced.
And people get really annoyed

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when I post anything about this
online, saying that teachers

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should have any ounce of
creativity in how they they

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mould their lesson and are being
cold things like, you know,

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you're just a selfish teacher
who's thinking of your own

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creativity over the kids.
Like, no, I'm just, I just think

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that the only reason I made this
choice is because I think it's

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better for the children.
And yeah, I think otherwise.

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I actually think lessons now are
becoming more prescriptive than

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ever, including what you might
say as a plenary or or a talk

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task, whatever it would be in a
in a explicit instruction

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lesson.
I think the main problem here,

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just to get it out there, is I
think explicit instruction is

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being conflated with every
single lesson looking exactly

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the same all the time.
I think you can do explicit

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instruction and have those
pedagogical tools in your lesson

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and have a structure to your
lesson that isn't necessarily

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the same in every single time
and every single classroom.

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Exactly.
It has to be, otherwise we'd

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have 32 robots in a room.
Like you can't tell me that that

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00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,480
that the exact same structure of
the exact same timings or the

229
00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,720
exact same lesson of the teacher
talks for only 12 minutes and

230
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,440
that's the maximum ever and
we're going to start timing you

231
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:23,560
and then you need to move on to
this.

232
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,040
You can't tell me that's best
for every class in the country.

233
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,040
It's not true.
You can adapt and change on the

234
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,080
spot.
You can adapt and change even in

235
00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,560
your planning if you want to
tweak stuff.

236
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,400
I'm not saying from the ground
up everyone should do their own

237
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,679
thing.
That's unreasonable as well

238
00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,280
because a lot of the explicit
instruction people say we're

239
00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,360
giving you the lessons guys,
this is great.

240
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,120
It's really good for teacher
well-being on workload.

241
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,080
Yeah, fantastic.
But you've got to let me adapt

242
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,400
that.
You've got to let me just change

243
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:45,760
it.
And that to me might be a 3

244
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,440
minute decision at the start of
the lesson going.

245
00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,920
I'm not going to do that.
It might be an on the spot

246
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,840
decision where I go, my kids
could really do another 5-10

247
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:54,560
minutes of this group talk.
This is really good.

248
00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:57,400
Let's dive deeper.
That's good teaching at the end

249
00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,160
of the day.
And I think explicit instruction

250
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,040
martyrs like we need to do this
all the time because the

251
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,560
research says this and I'm
proficate the man for the

252
00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:07,480
thought of you even potentially
they need to calm down a bit and

253
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,480
just be like it's OK if teachers
got shut off a bit it's.

254
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,280
Very interesting to say that
because when I was thinking

255
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,120
about plenaries that you've made
me reflect a bit more on it.

256
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,920
I am very much thinking of those
moments where in like just

257
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,920
throughout my career in general,
particularly throughout at the

258
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,880
beginning when we had to do all
these stickers and all these

259
00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,240
things where we were told
explicitly, this is how you do a

260
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:25,160
plenary at the end of the
lesson.

261
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,640
This last 10 minutes needs to be
this 95% of the time in my in

262
00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,160
the moment, I felt like there
was a better thing I could do at

263
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,440
that time.
So to me, I started conflating

264
00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:37,040
the idea of, well, plenaries are
rubbish, then we don't need to

265
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,840
do them because the only
plenaries I ever got to do were

266
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,280
these explicitly instructed ones
that I was like, there's almost

267
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,440
never there were sometimes,
sometimes there were situations

268
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,320
where like, actually I think
this could be really useful

269
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,440
right now.
This task really did lend itself

270
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:50,840
towards a bit of
self-assessment, because I

271
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,040
really need to think about this.
But but plenary just to.

272
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,560
I'm going to just push you on
this because I think you're

273
00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:55,960
making a really good point.
I want to know your thoughts

274
00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,120
because plenary to, for me,
you're you're kind of in your

275
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,120
head.
It seems like you're talking

276
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:02,720
about one specific type of
plenary.

277
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,240
Yeah.
Because a plenary can be

278
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,400
spending 30 seconds talking
about what you did today.

279
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A plenary can be a literal task

280
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,400
to kids do in their book.
And I guess is what you're

281
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,480
saying to you, a plenary was a
very set way of doing something

282
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,000
that took time.
We're actually we're not against

283
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,880
the idea of at the end of the
lesson summarising what we've

284
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:18,840
done, of course.
That's good.

285
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,280
Yeah, that's basically what you
said.

286
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,000
There is basically what I was
going to try and get to.

287
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,560
So yeah, exactly that plenary
became a set piece of the menu

288
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,760
of a lesson, which meant end of
the lesson.

289
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,960
And it meant this 10 minute
section where you do all these

290
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:30,880
things that we've told you to
do.

291
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,400
That's what it became.
And that to me, I was like, Nah,

292
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,200
I don't want to do that.
I just want to end the lesson

293
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,480
how I think I should end the
lesson.

294
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,000
And sometimes that's doing this
and sometimes it's doing that.

295
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,800
And that's all I ever wanted to
do.

296
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,720
Like and and to me it just made
me think, oh, Plenary's rubbish.

297
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,560
Right.
And I can see why you jump to

298
00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:47,360
that.
And I can see also why people

299
00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:50,520
who are really maybe advocates
for explicit instruction or or

300
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,520
doing plenaries.
I just think they might hear

301
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,240
what you say and go, this guy
hasn't got a clue.

302
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,680
I just wanted to make it really
clear that I feel like you, you

303
00:10:56,680 --> 00:10:58,360
definitely understand the
pedagogical reason.

304
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,400
I haven't got a column.
Here's me like in like alert

305
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,120
mode here, like right.
I know what Hayden is trying to

306
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,080
say.
Clarify this really quickly

307
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,200
because it's not again.
Yeah, I think it's obviously a

308
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,080
good thing.
I guess my one there, we kind of

309
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,160
went down the road of I could
imagine people, someone who

310
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,000
asked that question thinking
that's just a rule that you've

311
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,280
been taught to do.
My point is I enforced it on the

312
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,480
children having to do it every
day and it was a waste of their

313
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,600
time.
So maybe can you think of a rule

314
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,080
potentially that is just
grounded in?

315
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,480
Yeah, I've got.
I had one in my mind straight

316
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,280
away, which is not to do with
marking.

317
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,400
It's something that's always
been around and I think it still

318
00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,280
is in some places.
Having to get the kids to line

319
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,200
up in Boy Girl, particularly
when it goes assembly, is the

320
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:37,560
man I always think of.
There's probably other

321
00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:41,480
situations, but lining up the
kids in Boy Girl, I just find it

322
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,000
weird.
I've always that.

323
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,000
To be fair, I haven't always.
At first I was like, this is

324
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,520
normal.
This is what I'm used to, grew

325
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:47,440
up.
Went to school like that.

326
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,760
Exactly, I didn't even didn't
even question it and probably

327
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,400
someone at some point was like,
why are you doing that?

328
00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:54,120
And then it made me think and
you realise you haven't got an

329
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,080
answer.
You know when someone catches

330
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,520
you and you think, actually I
have no idea.

331
00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,240
I can't really justify.
This So why do you why do you

332
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,000
think that's it's ridiculous.
Because it's based on the idea

333
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,920
that if we put boys and girls
together, they'll behave better

334
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,880
because boys and girls can't
possibly be friends, right?

335
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,560
That's what it's born from,
isn't it?

336
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,560
And I, Caleb, maybe, maybe
statistically, boys are friends

337
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:11,880
with boys more than their
friends with girls.

338
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,080
Of course they are.
That's fine.

339
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,880
But like that it's not exclusive
though.

340
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,240
So quite often in in boy girl, I
just have a boy and a girl next

341
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,240
to each other who were literally
friends or best friends.

342
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:21,720
And they would just be even more
silly.

343
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,680
And it didn't like it just felt
like a weird stereotype to push

344
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,920
through lining up when really we
just treat bad behaviour as bad

345
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,040
behaviour.
Like if the kids are going to

346
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,720
assembly and being silly no
matter who they're with, then

347
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,080
there's there's repercussions
for that, like.

348
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:36,760
I remember when, when I worked
in a school with this policy, it

349
00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,560
was, it was actually, it was
phased out.

350
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,160
Like it was actually a thing
where I think everyone

351
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,640
collectively thought, Oh no,
wait, I don't think anyone

352
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,520
actually agrees with this, so
let's just stop this because it

353
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:45,920
was like an actual thing.
I thought that was a good thing,

354
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,120
but I remember at the point
where it was still a thing and I

355
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,200
remember like it.
It was a weird rule because it

356
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,440
didn't even really solve the
problems because it would be

357
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,000
like, right, boy girl.
We all knew it was boy girl.

358
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,120
Everyone knew it was boy girl.
So if someone wasn't, I'd be

359
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,440
like, is that boy girl?
And then maybe you had a class

360
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,880
with like three extra boys and
it'd be the same three boys at

361
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,920
the back who were made every
time in the backs.

362
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,440
All right, you 3.
Obviously you can't sit next to

363
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,200
each other because you talk to
each other, blah, blah, blah.

364
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,600
I'm going to separate you out.
But even when it was boy girl, I

365
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,080
found myself still looking at
the line and going, Oh, you 2

366
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,960
right, let's change.
Because like you said, it's not

367
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,960
just simply the fact you're a
boy next to a girl means you'll

368
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,720
behave yourself.
And I also found that it kind of

369
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,200
it, it put out there from me
modelling as the adult in the

370
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,680
room that it was like a negative
almost to be next to a girl or a

371
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:31,800
negative to be next to a boy.
And I found myself saying,

372
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,640
right, you know, it's boy girl.
And there might be like a

373
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,160
collective groan from the kids.
Oh, fine.

374
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,520
And I'd be like, right, no, no,
but we've got two, haven't we?

375
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,000
And I'd like, I don't want to be
reinforcing that.

376
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,120
It's like, yeah, well, you don't
get to choose get next you.

377
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:44,640
Don't get to do a nice thing,
right?

378
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,640
You get to do this and exactly
feel like this is the bad thing.

379
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,560
Exactly that.
So I was very, I remember being

380
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:51,840
very uncomfortable from the
start doing that because I

381
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,000
remember thinking it was weird.
But like you said, almost like,

382
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,840
well, it's the way I've always
done it and I hate that mindset

383
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,240
now.
And like I was just less

384
00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,680
confident, less experienced,
obviously.

385
00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:02,640
So I just kind of did it.
But yeah, I completely agree

386
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,400
with you.
I think that rule is bizarre and

387
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,040
it's, it's rooted in, it's
rooted in trying to solve a

388
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,600
problem that we're perpetuating.
We're kind of creating ourselves

389
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,080
in the 1st place.
And all this rule does is just

390
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,760
to make it even more of a thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

391
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,480
And it doesn't even solve all
the issues of, well, I'm lining

392
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:20,920
you up this way to stop you
talking.

393
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,840
It didn't even do that.
It was just like, yeah, OK,

394
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,800
cool.
Maybe it's solved honestly.

395
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,960
Like maybe it's solved 80% of
the chain.

396
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,360
Yeah, yeah.
And that's been generous.

397
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:30,880
And that's, yeah, that's been
really generous.

398
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,640
But even if it did, it still
doesn't solve some of it and

399
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,640
it's like I'm imagining being a
boy and a girl or best mates

400
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,160
guy.
Yeah, laughing that up.

401
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,200
I just was a very odd.
Yeah, definitely.

402
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,120
What would your advice be then
to people who are listening,

403
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,000
thinking, oh, they, they've got
other things they have to

404
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,560
enforce that they think are
mental in their school?

405
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,360
Maybe it's similar to the two
we've given.

406
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,800
What would you generally say to
someone in that situation who's

407
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,160
thinking, I don't want to do
this, but it's a school rule?

408
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:54,600
Like maybe even just take that
example.

409
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,400
Yeah, if you were in a school
where they line up boy, girl,

410
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,920
boy, girl, and you're thinking
why I have to enforce this, what

411
00:14:58,920 --> 00:14:59,840
what would you say to that
person?

412
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,000
I think there's a difference in
why you don't don't like a rule

413
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,280
that will change what you do
about it, right?

414
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,440
Because I think sometimes you
can not like a rule, but just go

415
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,480
over it.
You know, don't like a rule,

416
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,280
just go over it there.
It's just a preference.

417
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:14,880
There are three ways of doing
this.

418
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,560
You don't like that way?
Tough, do it that way.

419
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,520
Fine, That's one one way.
A second way.

420
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,880
You don't like a rule and you
think it's genuinely rooted in

421
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,520
the fact that maybe it's
literally better in terms of a

422
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,160
pedagogy or a way of like
teaching the children than what?

423
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,080
What's being done?
Yeah, the school are missing a

424
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:33,520
trick.
Yeah.

425
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,120
And at that point I think it's
OK.

426
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,560
You raise it and you say I think
this might be better because of

427
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,520
XYZ.
Would you mind if I give it a

428
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,360
go?
Maybe we can see if it's more

429
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:42,560
helpful for the kids or not.
Sure.

430
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,920
Then there's a third set, which
I would probably at this point

431
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,360
say the boy girl thing is in,
which is just like, I know, OK,

432
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,120
this is just objectively wrong.
Yeah.

433
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,560
So like, this is just like, I
actually really disagree with

434
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,240
this fundamentally because of
this reason.

435
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,360
Yeah, we're perpetrating
stereotypes.

436
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,360
Maybe we don't want to do that.
It's not necessary.

437
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:00,800
It's not really solving all the
problems.

438
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,680
There's a different way I can
solve the problems, which

439
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,600
doesn't kind of add to the loop
of boys against girls when the

440
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,120
when kids are young and we
create this kind of dichotomy

441
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,800
between them.
I think that's like the third

442
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,960
one where it's like you should
just raise it and you should

443
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,160
actually fight your corner.
So it's like pick your battles.

444
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,000
Like sure, it's good if you're
if you're being as harsh and as

445
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,160
like, no, I need to change this
on the boy girl rule.

446
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,960
Boy girl sound like groove from
boy girl rule.

447
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,240
If you're being as harsh on that
as you are on, you just don't

448
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,480
like the fact that you know the
chairs in your classroom are

449
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,040
blue.
Yeah, it's like, it's like, OK,

450
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,120
they've got to write in blue pen
now.

451
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,120
We used to write in black pen
and I'm yeah, fed up with it

452
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:37,800
right if.
You're being as harsh and as

453
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,080
annoying to to your leaders on
both of those things.

454
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,480
They'll stop taking you
seriously.

455
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,120
So true.
But if you pick and choose your

456
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,120
battles of what you really push
for and you have a really solid

457
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,240
reasons about it, your your word
gets more clout.

458
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,080
And what I would also say to
people is if you're in that

459
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,720
position, for example, the boy
girl role, and you just think

460
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,120
you're uncomfortable with it,
probably other teachers are

461
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,320
uncomfortable with it.
And if you go together with

462
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,040
eight of you and you say we've
always done this, I understand

463
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,600
why.
I don't think anyone's being

464
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,960
malicious, but we fundamentally
think this is bad because of

465
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:05,480
that.
That gives you more clout.

466
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,480
Can we do this simple change and
it will get rid of it?

467
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:08,240
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.

468
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,319
So very picky battles.
Very wise, wise words there.

469
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:13,359
For it's almost as if you've
been teaching nine years.

470
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,280
What can I say?
Hey, what can I say very wise?

471
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:16,560
Did you go into another one?
Yeah, do it.

472
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,400
OK, I decided to start watching
your podcast from the beginning

473
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,560
and I'm really cure.
Thank you, by the way.

474
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,359
I've actually had a few messages
recently of people saying

475
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,960
they've kind of started watching
and then they've been going back

476
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,120
and catching up as well.
And I'm like, gosh, the

477
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:33,760
difference.
I played our first episode and

478
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:35,720
someone's being really nice.
Hello.

479
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,760
Hello, everybody.
My name's Dylan Price and I'm a

480
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,960
qualified primary school teacher
and I'm with.

481
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,800
Hayden Stevens Oh wait, Dylan,
we've got to retake that because

482
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,680
I said Stevens slightly wrong.
We're slightly wrong.

483
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,640
Dylan, let's do another take.
And obviously we cut that bit

484
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,080
out and then we do 7 different
takes.

485
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,400
We go through and cut out
anything where we pause ever so

486
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,720
slightly too long because we
think people care about these

487
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,560
things.
Cut to now, no.

488
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,880
No, this is stay good.
This is never stated, no.

489
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:03,320
And we'll be like, oh, never,
can't do that.

490
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,080
Can't do that.
So funny.

491
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,080
Unhinged.
Unfiltered completely.

492
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,920
And this person was being really
nice and put it in a really nice

493
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,080
way.
It was like what I just said,

494
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,800
which was like, yeah, your
hosting skills have come on.

495
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,040
Well, that's.
Good to say.

496
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:18,520
I hope so, yeah.
Yeah.

497
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,920
Either we were extremely good
when we started.

498
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,240
Yeah, actually I'll take.
Them I wonder every good sad

499
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,800
one.
Anyway, decided to stop watching

500
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,600
podcast in the beginning.
I'm really curious, are there

501
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,160
any episodes or is there
anything in particular you would

502
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,560
do differently or have a
different outlook?

503
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,000
Look on with your experiences
now.

504
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,840
Well, me personally, I've, I'm
trying to think how many times

505
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,200
I've been wrong.
I've actually never been wrong

506
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,240
ever.
So I don't think I can ask that

507
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,360
question.
This is all I can.

508
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:50,480
The answer is no, because I just
yeah, I'm too stubborn.

509
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,640
I've never done Dylan.
I've never said anything wrong.

510
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,440
You obviously have lots.
Of yeah, yeah, I've got some

511
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,000
news for you.
You've just said something

512
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:56,440
wrong.
Why?

513
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,040
Because you've been wrong
multiple times.

514
00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:59,240
But we're not going to go to
that right now.

515
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:00,200
It's.
A good question.

516
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,080
Yeah, but seriously, Seriously,
thinking about it, if I go back

517
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,400
to kind of everything we've
done, I feel like fundamentally

518
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:13,600
when we when we speak about
things like the core arguments

519
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,720
behind it or thoughts behind it,
I don't think I've really

520
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,120
changed that much.
Like you might flit slightly

521
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,680
between stuff, but like, I look
back at old episodes after I

522
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:21,920
read this question, I thought,
you know what?

523
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,560
No, my stance on marking is the
same.

524
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,320
My stance on homework is the
same.

525
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,920
My stance on pretty much
everything we speak spoken about

526
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,960
pretty much as as kind of trap.
So you're agreeing then that

527
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,280
there's nothing, nothing I or
you, you have ever said that is

528
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:35,480
wrong?
No, I've got one.

529
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,680
I've got one because I was
splitting through and I think

530
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,120
this is like, this is just wider
as well.

531
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,320
For me personally, I think I
massively overestimated what the

532
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:43,760
new government would do for
education.

533
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,080
Oh that's that is a good one.
And, and I think I'm not

534
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,320
necessarily I've not necessarily
changed in terms of I absolutely

535
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,400
would, would stick to the back
teeth of the Conservative

536
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,040
government and the chopping and
change of education secretary

537
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,360
every, every what felt like 6
months.

538
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,960
And then the demonization of the
profession, what I felt like

539
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,480
when, when we went towards
strike action, which was rooted

540
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,720
in I was caring about the kids
and we were kind of painted by

541
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,600
the government as these people
who just don't care about the

542
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,080
kids as always.
Exactly.

543
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,200
I really, really dislike that.
And I definitely like was a big

544
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,560
advocate for more get rid of
this.

545
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,480
This government, yeah, Labour
are the ones who would come in.

546
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,040
I understood that, I knew that
and I wanted that.

547
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:27,080
But I would say if you're
looking at a balance of what did

548
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,280
I want more, it was to get rid
of that government.

549
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,640
Yeah.
So I don't think that's changed

550
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,360
too much.
But I definitely, definitely

551
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:35,360
over egged in my head, like, and
then this utopia will happen

552
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,920
because Labour will come in and
they care about education.

553
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,760
And I remember back when it was
education, education, education

554
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,240
and we're going to get all the
stuff we need.

555
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,160
Of course we weren't.
Why did I ever think like that

556
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,840
might happen?
Like, I don't, I don't think I

557
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,040
really thought it was to
transform overnight.

558
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,560
And I think Labour have taken
some steps in the right

559
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,600
direction that I don't think a
Conservative government would

560
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,080
have done, don't get me wrong.
And I still think for education

561
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,040
as a whole, I think this
government is a better option

562
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:00,720
than the old government,
Absolutely.

563
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,240
But it's definitely not going as
far as quick as I hoped.

564
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,360
And it's it, I guess suppose it
comes down to funding.

565
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:09,720
And what what I guess frustrates
me is that like there are some

566
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,640
choices you could make though to
put more into schools and more

567
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,840
into infrastructure and more
into education.

568
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,400
And I just wish that it had gone
a bit further, a bit quicker

569
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,200
because certain things are done
in education.

570
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,280
For example, the VAT on private
schools.

571
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,720
I completely agreed with that.
We've talked about this before,

572
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,840
but actually I think in
practise, it's not really had

573
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,360
the impact we thought it would.
And I think when you look at

574
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,200
what's actually changed in
education.

575
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,840
Not much, yeah, like not really.
We're kind of in the same boat.

576
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,680
Funnily enough, the private
school one was actually the only

577
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,840
one that that obviously I was
meming out a minute ago, but

578
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,800
there was the only one that
genuine came to my mind of not

579
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,040
fully changed my mind.
But I was definitely in the in

580
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,960
the same light of what you're
saying right now when we did

581
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,200
that episode on should we add
VAT to private schools?

582
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,120
I was like, absolutely, yes, get
over it.

583
00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,400
No exceptions.
Like I was so vehemently for

584
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,880
that.
And the more we reflected, I

585
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,440
mean, I think you even said this
recently.

586
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,160
And you just.
Mentioned it my opinion has

587
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,960
opened a bit more in terms of
like OK, I can see I can see

588
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,880
some drawbacks that I maybe was
blind to before because.

589
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,400
I was too just glossed over.
Yeah, you kind of knew maybe it

590
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:18,760
would happen.
Didn't you and I, but I thought

591
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,600
now I, I dismissed them too
quickly, whereas I wouldn't

592
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,960
dismiss them as quickly now I
still think overall it make it

593
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,440
makes sense that that should be
happening, but I can understand

594
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,120
that there were some situations
where actually it was kind of

595
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:29,160
rubbish that.
Well, because they're having a

596
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,120
similar conversation at the
minute about private healthcare.

597
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,040
Private Healthcare is about
exempt.

598
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:34,760
Yeah, right.
You don't, You don't pay VAT on

599
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,880
private healthcare.
And they were, they were like,

600
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,480
it was questioned, like, will
you do that?

601
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,400
And we're treating health
secretaries like, Nope, never,

602
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,680
we'll never do that.
And I thought to myself, why do

603
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,520
I see that different?
Yeah, like, why, why do when I

604
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,080
think about private school, do I
think, hell yeah, put VAT on

605
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,240
that.
And when I think about private

606
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,040
healthcare, my mind goes to,
well, no, because it's taking a

607
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,280
burden off the NHS.
And those people who want to

608
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,040
choose to do that are actually
helping out because they're

609
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,280
waiting list times.
So funny.

610
00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:59,960
But people like, it's the same
thing.

611
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:03,440
It's the same.
I'm a hypocrite and like in, in

612
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,720
that moment, I'm being
hypocritical because of my like,

613
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:09,600
probably the fact I've worked in
education for 10 years and maybe

614
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,880
because I have a bias as to what
I see coming out of private

615
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,240
schools or not.
It's, it's bizarre, isn't it?

616
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,520
Because then I'd be thinking
private healthcare.

617
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,120
I've used private healthcare
before when I knew that I had a

618
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,600
2 1/2 year wait to, to get
something checked.

619
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,040
Especially like post COVID, I
had quite bad health anxiety

620
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,800
about it in general.
And I was like, I need, I need

621
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:26,800
to get this checked.
Really.

622
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,480
I don't want to wait two years.
What if it is something bad?

623
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,480
I went private, got checked in
six weeks, it cost me a few

624
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,760
£100, but it meant that one, I
wasn't on the waiting list

625
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,320
anymore, someone else who
literally couldn't have afforded

626
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,320
to do that is now higher up on
the list because I'm off the

627
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,840
list.
And two, it meant my own

628
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,800
anxieties around it were
relieved quicker.

629
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,440
Like I got something out of
that.

630
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,040
And I would say if you whacked
on another 20%, what's the

631
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,600
benefit of that is like could I
have afforded another £50?

632
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,360
Maybe, but it might have put me
off.

633
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,520
There will be a line where it
puts me off and there will be

634
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,120
some people who putting back on
stuff like that puts them off

635
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:02,720
and then go back in the system
that's broken.

636
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,160
Same for private schools.
Yeah, yeah, that that extra few

637
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:05,800
grand a month.
Okay.

638
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,040
That is just too far back in the
broken system.

639
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,640
Do you think there's a subtle
difference as into I'm trying to

640
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,560
explore your own hypocrisy?
Like do you reckon there's a

641
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,200
subtle difference because of
like how broken each system is

642
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,360
in terms of the NHS for everyone
is honest to God is is just

643
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:22,280
completely, completely broken,
completely broken.

644
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,440
Whereas education, although it
is broken still, and

645
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,880
particularly when we're talking
about SEND for a wide majority,

646
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,320
it is still a very much a
functioning system where you get

647
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,920
an education five days a week
constantly.

648
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,280
NHS, you need one appoint.
You need literally one

649
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,800
appointment every say, say
you're someone who doesn't need

650
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,840
to go to the NHS or doctors
much, right?

651
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,720
Even if you're going 1 every
once every two years, you're

652
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,360
still waiting three years to get
yeah, like.

653
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,920
Is it because?
It's just so much more broken

654
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,440
NHS where it's like it really is
going private actually

655
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,000
genuinely, genuinely helps NHS
because it's so broken that that

656
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,480
is a burden.
Whereas the school it's like,

657
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,120
yeah, OK, I get it, private
schools.

658
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:01,120
But also we we actually do just
have the capacity to take on

659
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,680
those children in private
schools.

660
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,040
Yeah, I think we did.
Oh, in private schools.

661
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,280
Yeah.
If as in like there was that

662
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,200
whole discussion wasn't there
about, I think it's like 7% of

663
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,400
children in the UK.
Yeah, 7 percent, 7% go to

664
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,520
private school.
And it was like, oh, it's

665
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,920
taking, it's released, taking a
burden off the state schools.

666
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,680
And then so another study was
like, we could honestly absorb,

667
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,080
sure.
We could actually just absorb

668
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,000
those kids into state school and
it would be a little bit tricky

669
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,200
for like 2 years and it'd be
fine.

670
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,880
Yeah.
Like it's not it's not as broken

671
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,400
no as the N.
HSI agree with what you're

672
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:25,680
saying.
I think maybe like it's a bit

673
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,320
simplistic to about like we can
just absorb them because I think

674
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,080
like even the implications of
someone going from 32 kids in

675
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,280
their class to 33, yeah, it's
like it's much more workload for

676
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,720
the teacher.
And I'm sure people in the

677
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,720
bigwigs can say, oh, it's fine.
So yeah, OK, of course you think

678
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,600
we can because you're not the
one dealing with every day.

679
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,440
So I think it has more of an
impact than perhaps it's been

680
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,120
like mentioned there.
But I, but I think you're

681
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,240
absolutely right.
And I think it's two prongs,

682
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,440
right?
I think the two prongs are what

683
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,040
you said is true.
I, I, I do feel like, and I

684
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,120
might be wrong, but this is
what's guiding my opinion.

685
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:56,600
And this is, I'm just a person
at the end of the day.

686
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,720
I do feel like the NHS is way
more broken than the education

687
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,800
system in terms of what you've
outlined there.

688
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,200
I agree with that.
But I also think that it kind of

689
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,440
puts you in the shoes health
puts you in the shoes of someone

690
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,360
who's not getting what they need
at the education system.

691
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,560
So there's SEND parents and
those children who aren't

692
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:13,600
getting what they need out of
school.

693
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,080
Private school then becomes the
same option and need as me.

694
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,560
When I had my health scare of
thinking I want this checked out

695
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,000
quickly.
This is quite worrying for me.

696
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,040
It, it wasn't good enough to
say, well, there's the NHS.

697
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,720
Yeah, exactly.
And and for those SEND children,

698
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,960
it's not good enough to say,
well, there's the, there's the

699
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,680
school system that we've got.
It's broken.

700
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,320
I'm not getting what I need.
So I need this option.

701
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,160
And you whacking the 20% tax
rise on that makes it even

702
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,640
harder for me to take the other
option.

703
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,960
It's like you were saying, well,
the other option would help and

704
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,680
maybe you'll get what you need
there, but it's more expensive

705
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,280
now.
But you can just stay in this

706
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,720
system which also doesn't suit
your needs.

707
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,960
Health put me in that position
and the and the my use of

708
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,280
private care in the NHS put me
in that position to think well

709
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,680
for me, I'm going to go there.
Yeah, it's always a no brain at

710
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,240
that point.
So of course I have to do this

711
00:26:59,240 --> 00:26:59,920
one.
Exactly.

712
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:01,800
I've got the broken system that
won't help me.

713
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,840
Yes.
Or the the one I have to pay

714
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,160
for.
I have to choose the one I've

715
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:06,680
got to pay for.
So all you're doing is you're

716
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,240
not deterring me by making it
more expensive or it's just

717
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,000
making it harder for me in that
situation?

718
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,960
I've got less money at the end
of the month, yeah, or I'm not

719
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,960
getting seen.
And I didn't appreciate that.

720
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,680
Yeah, that exact analogy right
there when we first talked about

721
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:19,880
that.
And that's why I'm a hypocrite

722
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,200
because and everyone's
hypocrite.

723
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,280
I don't feel bad about this.
It's my opinion at the end of

724
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,800
the day and every one, whether
you like it or not.

725
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,720
And I get frustrated when people
can't see outside their own

726
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,000
experiences.
But whether you like it or not,

727
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,240
even if you think you're open to
other people's experiences,

728
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,880
there's always a grey area still
where you've just not thought

729
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,720
about something maybe or you've
just not experienced it.

730
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,320
So it's not real for you.
And yeah, that opened up, I

731
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,520
think.
And I, yeah, I am like I've kind

732
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,360
of switched on that where I'm
like, do you know what?

733
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:46,480
If you were to go back and ask
me, should we do this?

734
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,120
I'd be like, I think there are
other ways of raising money to

735
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:52,800
help recruit teachers because
their whole line was 69000

736
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,840
teachers.
OK, cool.

737
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,120
I think there's other ways to
raise money that are more

738
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:03,120
beneficial for people.
And you're kind of targeting.

739
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,200
Yeah, the rich.
That's why it sounded good.

740
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,840
But the people you're really
targeting are the ones on the

741
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,360
breadline, almost.
Of course they can afford

742
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:13,160
private school, but adding
another two?

743
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,560
Free ground for the kid who
needs it?

744
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,320
Yeah, S&D provision in
particular.

745
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,080
I just sits wrong with me now.
Yeah, that group didn't

746
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,680
acknowledge them enough before
doing knowledge them.

747
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,240
Now that was a really good
question.

748
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,080
I feel like this whole episode
is now about like it's us

749
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,080
showing our hopefully our
growing wisdom as we've changed

750
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,000
and formulated our opinions over
the years.

751
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,520
I think we should go back to our
posh voices.

752
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,200
Yes, OK.
I wonder if we were timid or

753
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,320
posh.
We have to go back, Go back and

754
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,160
listen.
Go back to #1 after this

755
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,480
episode, not at the end.
Retention please get.

756
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,920
To the end, I'll tell you what,
when you do get to the end, what

757
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,360
else can they do?
They leave us a review, a

758
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:44,920
review.
Andrea, what's our community?

759
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,200
If you ask a question, we've got
we've got like so many questions

760
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,760
and we've answered like 2.
Yeah, I know.

761
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,960
Or we're we're terrible at just
whizzing through my way.

762
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:53,680
I know.
Go on.

763
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:54,480
Should we do another one?
Yeah.

764
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,520
I'm a secondary trainee but I
love listening to your podcast

765
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,160
like this.
Everyone's starting so nice and

766
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:00,120
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.

767
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,640
My question is, do you think
primary schools prepare children

768
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,040
enough for the jump to
secondary?

769
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,320
Have you seen any examples of
things that have really helped?

770
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,080
OK, so when I think about
primary schools getting children

771
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,680
ready for secondary, I think
about two prongs.

772
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,480
So maybe we can dissect this and
do both.

773
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,680
The first prong would be
academically.

774
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,600
Do primary schools get children
ready academically to know

775
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,160
enough staff to be able to go
through secondary school and

776
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,080
start it on the right foot?
And I think pastorally, I think

777
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,360
do primary schools get children
secondary ready for what is a

778
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,440
complete upheaval.
Brand new school, brand new

779
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,360
people gone from the big dogs in
the small school to the smallest

780
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,880
fry in the big school.
Different ways of learning

781
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,240
lessons, different teachers,
etcetera.

782
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,400
Just huge and I think my answer
is different for both.

783
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,520
So which one do you want to
start with?

784
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,400
Yeah, same.
Let's do the pastoral one first

785
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,000
and then because I feel like I
want to dive deeper into the

786
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,760
academic stuff.
Can I jump in with pastoral?

787
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,920
Absolutely.
So pastoral, I think equally is

788
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,640
just down to school as well,
because I can think of two

789
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,480
schools right now in our area. 1
is a primary school that

790
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,600
literally has a secondary school
on a site nearby.

791
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,560
And they purposefully, when the
kids get into year five and six,

792
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,160
start transitioning the way they
do lessons so that it's it's

793
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,560
less of a difference in terms of
like they'll have different

794
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,040
teachers, they'll move around
different classrooms.

795
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,640
They basically get the kids
ready for like a more move,

796
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,920
seamless transition to secondary
schools where they're walking

797
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,400
around with the timetable and
going to different.

798
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,880
Rooms with different teachers.
And I thought, well, that's

799
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,040
really cool, but I'd say the
majority of primary schools and

800
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,120
all the other ones I think of in
the area don't do that.

801
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,160
You have one set, you have one
class teacher.

802
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,240
If you're in one form, that is
literally your teacher of

803
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,400
everything all day.
If you're in a more than A1 form

804
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,960
school, you might, you might
split off for maybe maths or for

805
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,960
English or something like that,
or maybe even art or something

806
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,560
if you're lucky and you get a
little bit of the experience of

807
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,640
going to different teachers.
But ultimately it's still, I

808
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,520
would say, quite a big jump to
secondary school where you're

809
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,520
walking around with a timetable,
being told you need to be here

810
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,920
and the pips going off and you
know, whatever alarms you know.

811
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,120
The pips are for me, not for
you, ingrained in my head.

812
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,800
Exactly.
So I think pastority, it really

813
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,800
does just completely depend on
the school you're in, in all

814
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:49,320
honesty.
Do you?

815
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,440
Think in general it's done well.
In general, I'd say it's more on

816
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,680
the end of there's there's,
there's a big jump, yeah, I'd

817
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,000
say doing well, I'd say.
But it's hard.

818
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,440
I, I guess I'm, I'm coming to
defence here just for context,

819
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,920
everyone, Hayden's been a year 6
teacher forever.

820
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,480
You've done this like the back
of your hand.

821
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,800
You know this really well.
And I'm looking at it from the

822
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,600
outside.
I think it's a really hard job.

823
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,800
I think it's really hard to say
to a primary school.

824
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,160
Can you get all the kids ready
for their individual schools?

825
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,560
They're going to where
everything has a different

826
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:15,960
system completely.
And there's, there's seven

827
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,920
different schools that we're
going to like that's really

828
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:18,880
hard.
And when we think about

829
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,840
pastoral, I suppose it's more
like just think about the mental

830
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,360
health of the child, the
readiness for the child.

831
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,120
Getting them into the school is
important.

832
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,760
Obviously the different open
days and stuff.

833
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:27,840
Yeah.
And I think that's on the

834
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,200
secondary school more than the
primary school.

835
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,240
What the primary school have to
do is accommodate as much as

836
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,800
possible.
And I know there's people who've

837
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,960
come in for talks and stuff to
the kids.

838
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,400
And I just think it's a really
hard thing to do.

839
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,200
And I think primary schools do
an amazing job.

840
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,840
And from what I've seen, most
primary schools put loads of

841
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,160
time into this and like, do as
much as they can.

842
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,320
Yeah, that when you that's why I
was, I found it tricky to answer

843
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:48,800
your question.
We said they do it well because

844
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,560
I think they do do it well, but
I just want to acknowledge the

845
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,280
fact that some schools have just
a bigger jump than others.

846
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,400
One bit of advice I'll give if
you're a Senko or some or you

847
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,760
know the Senko in your school,
something our schools have done

848
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,680
in the past, which I've always
thought was really, really good.

849
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,120
And this is I think slightly
more on the primary schools is

850
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,240
after the, the base transition
days and the things where the

851
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,280
secondary schools are organised
or visits into school.

852
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,480
Our Senko always went above and
beyond and thought went, went

853
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,760
through the list of children and
thought who needs additional

854
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,680
extra transition and would and
we'd literally organise extra

855
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,160
days, extra mornings, extra
things where they can go and

856
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,960
have those additional that
additional time at secondary

857
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,880
schools just to make that
transition a bit more seamless

858
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,360
for them.
I just think that's a really a

859
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,960
really nice, easy way you can
do.

860
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,560
You could do it as many or few
kids as you think need it, but

861
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,680
it's it's a thing you can do.
Do you think like moving,

862
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,640
bridging the gap into academics,
right?

863
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,760
Do you think we'll talk about
academics in a second, but do

864
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,240
you think that this pastoral
jump, like getting them ready

865
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:48,320
mentally for that big change is
more important than getting them

866
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,440
to a certain academic level?
Or do you think they're just the

867
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:52,120
same and?
Different.

868
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,240
I'd say it's at least just as
important because I think people

869
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,880
with anything would actually
probably put that one on the

870
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,440
back burner and think all the
which one, the putting of the

871
00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,520
pastoral stuff on the back
burner.

872
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,400
I think people would naturally
think maths and English is

873
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,680
everything when you think the
kids are ready for.

874
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,000
Academic.
Yeah, I just think the opposite.

875
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,000
Do you think?
Yeah, I'd, I'd be like, look,

876
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,880
you've done English and maths
every single day for six years.

877
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,640
Yeah, if you're at a point
that's not what we deem suitable

878
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,200
for secondary school, like
sorry, like you know, we have

879
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,920
done a lot.
We've done 6 hours a week of

880
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,920
English and six hours a week of
maths for the entire time you've

881
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,320
been at school.
Sorry.

882
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,840
But the pastoral side I think
put gets put in the back burner

883
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,480
in general.
That's what I mean.

884
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,080
No, no, yeah.
But I think when people say

885
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,720
what's more important, I would
be saying, OK, so the pastoral

886
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,400
thing is, is therefore more
important when you get towards

887
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,880
the end of year six.
Never had to prioritise

888
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,480
something.
I'd be prioritising the thing

889
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,360
that I feel the kids don't get
enough of in general.

890
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:37,520
Definitely getting them ready
for it.

891
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,520
That's guess what my question
was, is like, what's more

892
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,680
important at that point?
And if I was thinking what I'm

893
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,680
going to put my resources into,
say the kids have done Sats in

894
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,880
May, like they've done that
this, this three months of

895
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,360
school left or two months of
school left, Holy moly, pastoral

896
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:51,360
stuff.
Getting them ready mentally,

897
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,920
getting them ready for that jump
is way more important than me

898
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,000
than thinking, oh Christ, I
don't think they're quite at

899
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,000
that academic level.
It is true.

900
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,920
Actually it is true because I
think about literally my

901
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,880
experience.
That is exactly what I do after,

902
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,080
after SATS is very much lots of
extra PSHE, lots of extra

903
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,600
transitional things, loads of
extra things.

904
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:06,920
It's all to do with the pastoral
side.

905
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,320
And when it comes to academics,
which we can talk about now, I'd

906
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,120
still think about it.
And I still think to myself in

907
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,000
that last month, you know what,
what maths and English is, is

908
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,960
going to be useful now,
specifically not for Sats

909
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,400
anymore, not for the key stage 2
curriculum, but just really just

910
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,600
thinking what's actually going
to be useful now to get them

911
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,480
into into secondary school.
I start then reverting in the

912
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,199
academic side to like genuinely
like fundamental skills,

913
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,679
foundations, making sure
everyone's like, everyone's got

914
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:31,199
the basics as best as they
possibly can before they move

915
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,199
into secondary school.
And I find there's a bit of a, a

916
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,120
bit of a dichotomy here where I
felt like children are at the

917
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,800
like expected level.
I would say transitioning from

918
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,440
primary school to secondary
school is just easy honestly

919
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,040
because I think.
That's crazy.

920
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,159
Or academically.
Academically, just I'm just

921
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:51,320
talking academics, I'm talking
maths and English at year six

922
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,239
level if you're expected or
above, honestly going to year 7.

923
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,560
And it's just my experience of
talking to a couple of secondary

924
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,440
school teachers, but mostly
parents who have been who've

925
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,960
kids gone to year 7 and then and
then we've caught up in a year

926
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,960
or so because they're maybe
their younger siblings to the

927
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,560
school.
I mean, how so and so getting on

928
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,520
and they always say, oh, well,
actually Year 7 was kind of

929
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,640
just, they basically like,
they've not even done that much

930
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,000
new stuff.
There's basically just a repeat

931
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,520
of Year 6 in terms of content.
And because their kids expected

932
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,440
that was a breeze for them.
But then the kids who have

933
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,080
really struggled, I find that
then it's still, it's just still

934
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,480
an academic, academic jump.
If they're really behind in the

935
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,680
Key Stage 2 curriculum,
obviously going to Key Stage 3

936
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,400
where they do.
Ultimately, even though they

937
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,360
have a base point that may be
overlaps of Year 6 a little bit,

938
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,600
yeah, it's still hard for them
to jump up to that level because

939
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,440
they've got all the pastoral
stuff to bear in mind as well as

940
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,560
still an academic.
So focus on academics then.

941
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,560
It sounds as if what you're
saying the jump from six to

942
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,280
seven is less of a jump than the
jump from 5:00 to 6:00 because

943
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,840
we're saying there's an overlap.
So if we're saying like, Oh

944
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,400
yeah, but those kids who are
slightly behind in year 6 and

945
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,400
working towards they have got a
jump in year 7, less than a jump

946
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,800
they had from 5 to 6, less than
a jump they had from 4:00 to

947
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:55,720
5:00.
Yeah, potentially.

948
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,800
So.
So if there is that overlap, and

949
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,880
I think from everything else,
it's secondary school teachers

950
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,640
get in touch like tell us
because it feels like in year 7,

951
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,840
a lot of a lot of secondary
school teachers also saying, oh,

952
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,040
what on half of these kids have
been been doing the whole time.

953
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:08,840
So there's always this weird
overlap.

954
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,360
But I guess all I'm saying is if
you're slightly behind going up

955
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,840
to Year 7 academically or if you
are not prepared pastorally,

956
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,120
mentally to make that jump,
what's going to have more of a

957
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,000
negative impact on the child?
I feel like I want my kids to be

958
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,160
ready mentally, pastorally,
yeah, for that huge change in

959
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,160
their life and that if they're
slightly behind academically,

960
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,040
it's a shame.
But I have done 6 hours a week

961
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,200
of both of these core subjects.
Now you are where you can be.

962
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,320
Yeah.
You will continue to catch up,

963
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,960
just like you would have gone in
that move from 4:00 to 5:00 and

964
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,120
you would have maybe struggled a
bit.

965
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,600
But we're going to help you.
Yeah.

966
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,400
In that move from six to seven,
maybe you'll struggle a bit.

967
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,960
That's still going to be.
But we're still going to help

968
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,880
you.
Whereas the huge, huge, huge

969
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,800
differences, when you go from
4:00 to 5:00, you're in the same

970
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,280
kind of environment, same people
every day.

971
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,080
When you go to five to six, same
again, six to seven.

972
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,680
I can only think back to when I
moved to secondary school.

973
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,480
It's the most monumental thing
in my child's life.

974
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,160
Like it's like this, this is
incredible.

975
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,560
This this building is 10 times
bigger than my primary.

976
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,040
School and all the kids are huge
and.

977
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,080
All the I went teachers I went
from A1 form small little

978
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:16,400
Catholic school to a sixth form
yeah year 7 through to sixth

979
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,720
form with like it was it was
incomparable Yeah and yeah, I

980
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,880
say like that stuck with me more
that change rather than oh God,

981
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,880
the contents got harder content
gets harder every year so.

982
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,000
That school had a 6th, a sixth
form, sixth form.

983
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,960
That's interesting.
There's one middle ground, one

984
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,800
touch before we move to the next
question, which is just, I don't

985
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,280
think this is pastoral, academic
or a bit of both, which I think

986
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,000
we should consider, which is
that you go from your two core

987
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,040
subjects doing maths and English
every single day at primary

988
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,840
school to a much wider approach
to education.

989
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,240
In secondary school, you've got
your maths lesson, but actually

990
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:48,120
in timetable, you've got your
biology lesson and you've got

991
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:49,880
your PE lesson and you've got
your history lesson and then

992
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:50,760
you've got your geography
lesson.

993
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,240
And rather than just all being
banded together into your topic

994
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:55,080
in the afternoon that you do
three days a week or whatever it

995
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,840
is, it is actually now more
significant.

996
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,160
And I think it's quite common to
not have maths and English every

997
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,760
single day at secondary school.
Sometimes it can be 4 days or

998
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,720
even 3 days or in one of the
slots in the afternoon ones in

999
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:08,280
the morning.
So that that change I think is

1000
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,360
just a bit of both.
Like you, if you're struggling

1001
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,120
in maths and English, it's like,
cool, you're going to get even

1002
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,240
less of it now potentially,
potentially if you go to

1003
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:16,000
secondary schools, find out
where the timetable is

1004
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,080
different.
I know it's true in some

1005
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,120
schools.
I don't know if it's true in

1006
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,040
every school, I'm sure it's not,
but I think just that is just

1007
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,160
another thing to consider in
terms of when you're thinking

1008
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,440
about prepping your kids for
secondary.

1009
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,280
School you making aware it's
funny what the afternoon what

1010
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,640
doing like he's like because
it's so ingrained in primary

1011
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,200
school.
It might be different, but like

1012
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,560
I bet 95% primary school do math
first yeah, math first thing

1013
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,360
break English where your
assemblies just slot in and then

1014
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,880
do your topic in the exactly
that changing's huge as well.

1015
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,800
So I've got maths at half 2.
We spoke to a school before, a

1016
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,080
primary school that actually had
like a flexi maths lesson in an

1017
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,080
afternoon.
Yeah.

1018
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:48,200
There was like, there was like
1.

1019
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,880
I remember because I remember
being like, what?

1020
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,240
Yeah.
You blow my mind.

1021
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:54,280
God, you can't learn maths with
with school pudding in your

1022
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,520
belly.
What's what's going on?

1023
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,080
This sun's gone past the big
way.

1024
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,000
Point in the sky.
We've got possibly that maths

1025
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,040
now.
They're eight years old.

1026
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,760
Jesus Tonight.
Honestly.

1027
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,360
What's going on here?
Yeah.

1028
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,040
So I tell you what, it would
feel weird teaching maths.

1029
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,760
It would feel not very weird.
I've never not done it.

1030
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,120
I mean, yeah, I've never done
that.

1031
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,560
I think that's what the new
curriculum should be.

1032
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,160
You know, make Mass 9:00 AM, you
do Mass at night.

1033
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,840
If it's 9:00 AM and you're in
school, you should be doing

1034
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,400
maths standardised.
That's it.

1035
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,840
I'm sorry, everyone's doing end
of that.

1036
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:26,400
All right, let's do one more
question.

1037
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,720
We've, we've got look, look at
it.

1038
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:29,760
Anyone watching you can see how
many questions we've got here.

1039
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,200
This is our 4th question.
We do this every week.

1040
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,480
We'll map out like 10 questions.
And by the way, these 10

1041
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,720
questions we've mapped out here,
these are like leaving out

1042
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:40,480
really good questions that we're
going to come on to in the

1043
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,080
future.
So like we're actually sort of.

1044
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,440
Phrasing We're awful.
Let's do it.

1045
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,120
But this, this again, we've kind
of done deep questions this

1046
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:46,800
week.
I've really enjoyed it.

1047
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,800
I'm going to finish off with one
another one that's actually

1048
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,680
quite could get quite deep.
Does a PowerPoint count as a

1049
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:57,240
plan?
On the whole, I think I think

1050
00:39:57,240 --> 00:39:59,000
yes, of course it does, is my
like base answer.

1051
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,560
I think you could probably argue
that the situation, whatever the

1052
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,800
PowerPoint was like unbelievably
like barely anything on.

1053
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,640
But it's the same as if it's on
a piece of paper.

1054
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,640
That's a separate argument.
If the PowerPoint had barely

1055
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,680
anything on it and you couldn't
actually tell the teacher know

1056
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,560
they're like that.
It's just three pictures for me.

1057
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,280
But is that not the same as a
written plan?

1058
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,720
If a written plan had four
sentences on it and a picture,

1059
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,560
it's the same thing.
I think you get away of that,

1060
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,520
would you for a written plan?
What if you get away of it for a

1061
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:23,920
PowerPoint if PowerPoints were a
plan?

1062
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,080
Yeah, maybe, maybe.
I don't know.

1063
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,960
I think an argument for
PowerPoints where people can say

1064
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,520
it's just a tool for me in the
lesson, not no.

1065
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,520
Like to me, the difference
between a plan PowerPoint and

1066
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,600
one that's what this other thing
I'm arguing is.

1067
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,920
Could someone else pick it up
and roughly teach that lesson?

1068
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,200
I pretty much teach that, sorry.
Let me be really clear how this

1069
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:42,920
is really interesting already,
because I I feel like I'm on a

1070
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,840
very different page.
OK, let's just one, let's just

1071
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,720
get this really clear.
You're arguing about the detail

1072
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:49,920
in the plan.
I'm arguing about the vessel of

1073
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,840
the plan.
So I don't think saying

1074
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,560
PowerPoint can't be a plan
because they could be sparse is

1075
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,200
a reason to say it can't be a
plan because I would just say a

1076
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,600
rhetit plan can't be a plan
because it could be sparse.

1077
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,480
Anything else could be a plan
because it could be sparse.

1078
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,760
So I think you're you're kind of
using one standard for something

1079
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,160
and not for the written.
Kind of, yeah, I guess so, yeah,

1080
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,240
I'm imagining this is where it's
a school where it's like you

1081
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:15,040
have to submit your planning and
it's like, and this person

1082
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,360
saying can can a PowerPoint be
the plan that I submit rather

1083
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,720
than the PowerPoint and the
written plan?

1084
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,000
So so, and I'd say absolutely
yes it can.

1085
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,760
And if your SOT have a problem
with the detail of your plan,

1086
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,240
it's nothing to do with how it's
presented.

1087
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,760
OK, this, this PowerPoint is not
very detailed.

1088
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,640
It doesn't count as your plan.
It's like, OK, here's my written

1089
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,760
plan with the same stuff on it.
They'll be like, well, it's not

1090
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,280
very detailed.
It doesn't count as a plan.

1091
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,400
I don't think you can get away
with having a more sparse one

1092
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,480
just because of the vessel that
you're doing the plan.

1093
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,960
OK.
In in that case then yeah, I I

1094
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,320
definitely completely agree.
It is.

1095
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,640
It was more of a would you get
away with it that the school

1096
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:49,320
would?
Yeah, exactly.

1097
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,400
If it was written in the same
way it was on the PowerPoint,

1098
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:52,840
you leave a get away of it or
not.

1099
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,400
I see what?
You mean that's the same thing?

1100
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,720
So I but my point is, I think
that some people do have your

1101
00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:57,960
mindset and I think that's a
problem.

1102
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,280
That's only reason I push back
immediately.

1103
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,520
Yeah, 'cause I, I think there
are some people who would look

1104
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,320
at a PowerPoint.
We've gone to the extreme here

1105
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,280
of three sentences and a picture
on both would both be

1106
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,160
unacceptable, right?
But there are definitely some

1107
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,600
people out there who a normal
Lesson plan on a PowerPoint or a

1108
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,840
smart notebook, maybe like it's
8 to 12 slides long and it's got

1109
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,600
your whole progression on there
and you can clearly see what's

1110
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,400
going on there are there are
people who would reject that

1111
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:27,320
PowerPoint as a plan, but accept
a written plan with this same

1112
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,000
stuff on.
And I think that's my point here

1113
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,800
is that's wrong.
I agree with that.

1114
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,520
That's that's what I'm saying.
I'm sort of saying I don't think

1115
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:40,760
we should be judging how plans
are formatted based on something

1116
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,840
other than what the detail.
Is I completely agree.

1117
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,120
I, I honestly there's, I could
not disagree less with that

1118
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,360
because I can tell you right
now, even in our own school when

1119
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,520
we were mass leads years ago, we
literally scrapped written plans

1120
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,440
because what was happening was,
and I think this happened in a

1121
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,880
lot of schools is we need to see
your written plans.

1122
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,440
But obviously everyone uses
PowerPoints or smart notebooks

1123
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,400
or whatever it is they're using
in their school as well.

1124
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,480
And we would look to that
immediately and was like, well,

1125
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,440
that's pointless because we're
just writing down the same plan

1126
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:06,760
twice.
We're writing down a written one

1127
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,480
for people to look at.
And then we got the actual plan,

1128
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,200
which we would like, which is my
smart right notebook in lessons.

1129
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,840
So we said, can we not write
them down because you can just

1130
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,080
look at the the PowerPoint.
And everyone, everyone was

1131
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:17,520
starting with the PowerPoint.
That's the point.

1132
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,760
Yeah, and then write it down.
Exactly, because I remember I

1133
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,640
would do all my slides for the
week and I I in in creating my

1134
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,200
slides.
I'm planning my lesson.

1135
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,440
Yeah, like that is absolutely
true.

1136
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,280
There's no, there's no way I, I
can't be planning my lesson, but

1137
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,800
making slides and then be like,
oh God, no, I need to plan this.

1138
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,480
I would say the only thing like,
for example, I'm really clear

1139
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:38,920
about what we ended up doing in
our school.

1140
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:44,880
We did a medium term plan, which
was you would map out your

1141
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,720
learning objectives for the
term.

1142
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,320
Because in maths, I think it's
very important to have that

1143
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,440
zoomed outlook of it makes sense
to do this in this order because

1144
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,440
it progresses nicely.
Then I'm going to move on to

1145
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,920
that and then this.
And that's a, that's something

1146
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,360
that actually I always would do
even before making my individual

1147
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:02,840
lessons.
And I think that's good practise

1148
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:03,760
and I think that's good
planning.

1149
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:04,840
So we're not saying get rid of
that.

1150
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,640
But then what would happen is
you do your MPTP reading and

1151
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,560
time plan, then I'd go away and
maybe plan my slides for the

1152
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,600
week.
And maybe I'd use some from last

1153
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,600
year because I did this the same
last year and the progression's

1154
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,000
the same.
I still learn this in the same

1155
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,640
order.
So I'm using that from last

1156
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,960
year.
I'd make my slides and then I

1157
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,120
feel like I'm done you.
Yeah, I'm like, I'm ready now.

1158
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,840
I'm ready for this.
But I would have to then go to a

1159
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,840
weekly planning document, more
detail, write the learning

1160
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,680
objective.
There'd be a description for the

1161
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,640
input would be there'd be a
description for the challenge,

1162
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,720
description for the plenary and
a description for like a

1163
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:37,120
starter, maybe activity and
something.

1164
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,880
And I'd be like, OK, all I ever
did in that situation was open

1165
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,080
my smart notebook.
Yeah, open my PowerPoint.

1166
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,080
I did go through, but I smart
and I'd copy in go to the next

1167
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:47,200
slide.
OK, that's my input.

1168
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:48,680
Copy in because.
I've done that.

1169
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,120
Yeah, I agree.
That that is pointless.

1170
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,280
So my point here, and I'm going
to throw it back to you then for

1171
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,040
does a PowerPoint count as a
plan?

1172
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,120
Yes, of course it does.
And if you, if anyone has an

1173
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,560
issue with how you're planning,
it's not down to the vessel in

1174
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,360
which you're doing it.
It doesn't matter.

1175
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,000
Their issue can be with the
content itself, their issue can

1176
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,360
be with the lack of detail,
etcetera.

1177
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,360
I don't care about the detail.
I care the lesson is good or

1178
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,040
not.
I'm not going to sit down, but

1179
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,880
you haven't actually written 16
different sentences for what

1180
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,800
your input will be.
I agree, don't care, but there

1181
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,640
is a point where you can't tell
if the lesson is good enough.

1182
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:23,680
If without the detail that makes
sense.

1183
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,400
So if you're in, if you are a
school leader, who's saying the

1184
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,680
only reason I want you to submit
planning is by definition is

1185
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,640
because I want to look at it and
and check through it.

1186
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,880
Otherwise, why you would use to
have you either don't have

1187
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,280
planning submitted by your
teachers or you do because

1188
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,320
there's a reason to it, right?
There's a weird middle ground

1189
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,680
where people feel like I guess,
oh, we have to submit planning

1190
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,400
and no one's looking at it.
That's completely pointless.

1191
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,600
Well, I think, I think the
middle ground is sometimes we

1192
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,800
put it on the shared area so
everyone can access it and

1193
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,160
maybe.
Use it in the future, but no one

1194
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,480
really OK, that's that's fine,
but in terms of like checking it

1195
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:50,920
maybe no one does.
But if your SOT is thinking I

1196
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,640
want your planning submitted
because I actually you want to

1197
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,360
look through lesson content and
basically be that manager and

1198
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,360
look through.
In that situation, it would be

1199
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,960
unacceptable to have only
submitted, like you said, a

1200
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,440
three sentences on a bit of
paper or a PowerPoint that has

1201
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,280
nothing to it.
Even if you had a good plan in

1202
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,360
your head.
In that situation, if the, if

1203
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,920
the SLT want to check for your
planning, this is interesting,

1204
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,240
they can't just get it from your
mind.

1205
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,240
So it, they would have to be
like a minimum standard in that

1206
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:16,000
case, wouldn't there?
So you think that's OK to do?

1207
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,120
I don't necessarily think, I
don't think that's a good

1208
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,720
practise, good practise at all.
But I think that SLT are within

1209
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:21,680
their right, aren't they, to
check?

1210
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,560
I don't know.
I don't think they are because

1211
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,560
you hear a lot that you don't
have to submit planning.

1212
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:27,680
That's a very common thing in
teaching.

1213
00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:28,880
But you don't have to submit
planning.

1214
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,480
So it's like, OK, well my SLT
are asking me to.

1215
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,560
It's like, well actually if you
went to a union they'd be saying

1216
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,160
you don't have to be regularly
uploading your planning.

1217
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:36,960
I've always found that really
strange because there's got

1218
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,120
what?
Strange is different to right

1219
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,200
though.
Yeah, I really, I want to get, I

1220
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,400
need to go away and look at this
more, but I want to know exactly

1221
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,680
because if I was SLT, if you
genuinely were in a school where

1222
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,200
it's like part of my job is, is
quality control.

1223
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,600
And I just want to make sure
that certain content is being

1224
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,760
taught.
There's got to be a sum means in

1225
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,760
which you can do that.
And if teachers can say, no, you

1226
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,080
can't have my planning.
So I've got, I've got to come

1227
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,440
and sit in your lesson every day
to be able to see what content

1228
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:01,800
you're teaching.
That seems really inefficient.

1229
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,520
Yeah, I suppose also it's really
interesting one because, like,

1230
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,120
where is the line?
I get why the line is.

1231
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,120
You can't ask me to do that.
I've always done it.

1232
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,760
I actually want people to have
my planning.

1233
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,040
Yeah, and I want colleagues to
use my planning.

1234
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,600
And I'm not precious about it at
all.

1235
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:15,760
I'm like, I'm just making a
lesson.

1236
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:16,840
You spend the time, no matter.
What?

1237
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,920
Yeah, I'm making a lesson about
multiplying fractions together.

1238
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,360
It's not groundbreaking, mate.
I've not got some secret formula

1239
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,040
here.
Like, and if I have found the

1240
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,600
secret formula, I want every
child to have it, not just my

1241
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,360
kids in my room.
I don't care.

1242
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,880
Like whatever, use it.
And in terms of like planning

1243
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,680
being scrutinised, I do think
it's fair enough to have that

1244
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,200
kind of role because I can see
it being really abused and I've

1245
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:39,600
I've heard of it before.
It's like, no, I need your

1246
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,160
really detailed planning.
I need to make sure it's

1247
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:42,520
completely right.
I'm going to go for it, going to

1248
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,560
check and make sure brilliant do
all that.

1249
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,480
It doesn't even mean I'm doing
it in the lesson.

1250
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,640
Like it's so bad.
It's like it's all written

1251
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,880
nicely in a thing and they've
got really nice progression of

1252
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,160
questions there and they've got
15 questions in a row that they

1253
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,040
could ask.
And a challenge task doesn't

1254
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,040
mean it's happening.
Like all it's done is just made

1255
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,040
me write something down which is
completely irrelevant.

1256
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,000
The more detailed my Lesson plan
is, by the way, the more I

1257
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,560
deviate from it because I'm
always adapting, I'm always

1258
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:06,920
changing.
That's good practise.

1259
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,600
We talked about this before.
So if my Lesson plan is to the

1260
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,640
10 second detail, it's wrong
already because I'm not going to

1261
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,080
do that.
I'm not going to follow it to

1262
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:19,200
the tee.
So a good plan to me is just

1263
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:20,800
enough.
It's the bare bones, it's the

1264
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,000
skeleton, it's the medium term
plan of I'm doing these small

1265
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,320
steps in a row because it makes
sense.

1266
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,560
Yeah, it's the I'm, I've planned
these tasks which you can

1267
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,560
literally see.
I don't think you need to be

1268
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:32,960
more much more detailed than
that, but.

1269
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,800
I was kind of playing devil's
advocate in terms of like, but

1270
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:36,800
some schools might want to do
this.

1271
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,520
But in reality, I really think
about it.

1272
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,440
I just don't think, I just don't
think you need to.

1273
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,880
I think if if you're genuinely
so worried that your teachers

1274
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,080
can't even plan like the like a
really basic lesson that just

1275
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,320
even follows the content of the
curriculum that's supposed to be

1276
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,360
doing, then you probably should
be in that classroom more and

1277
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:53,920
just generally supporting that
teacher anyway.

1278
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,120
Like I don't think you should be
relying on what they write down

1279
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,680
on on a bit of paper exactly to
make that judgement.

1280
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,120
I agree because you can write
down anything.

1281
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:01,960
At the end of how, how do I know
they're teaching it?

1282
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:03,760
They did.
They did the task at the end.

1283
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,880
Yeah, honestly, just go in and
make every couple of weeks maybe

1284
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:07,880
just that's what I mean.
See what?

1285
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:08,880
See what progression has been.
Done.

1286
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,800
Used it every day.
You don't need it, yeah.

1287
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,920
I've always been against just
really clear now going to think

1288
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,880
up on the side of like, yeah, we
should be like authoritarian

1289
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,040
checking everyone planning.
I've always I've hated written

1290
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,160
planning.
I've never even done it.

1291
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,000
I just think it's point unless I
had to, but I've always hated

1292
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,680
it.
I think smarts or PowerPoints

1293
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:30,200
are completely suitable as, as
full written plans in a way,

1294
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,000
especially when you put quite a
bit of detail into them.

1295
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,680
Anyway, it's already there.
And even if you don't, it's

1296
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,280
still OK.
I know loads, loads of older

1297
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,280
teachers who taught at a time
where it's like, yeah, I, I had

1298
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,960
three things ready for my
projector, but in my head I knew

1299
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,040
the whole 40 minute sequence of
stuff that I was going to teach

1300
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,600
the kids.
These are just a couple of

1301
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,360
prompts.
I use the tools and my

1302
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,480
PowerPoints are now the same.
They're just 4 pictures.

1303
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,520
You don't know what they mean,
but I do because I've got a plan

1304
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,200
in my head.
And let's be real for a minute,

1305
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,480
in that lesson, they're probably
learning what a preposition is.

1306
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,880
I don't need 15 sentences and
how you're going to teach that.

1307
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,240
It's what a preposition is, for
God's sake.

1308
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:03,320
Like come.
After over time, it's got to the

1309
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,600
point where I think I could
confidently say you can give me

1310
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,200
any, any curriculum strand,
right?

1311
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,240
This is this balls go on from
key stage 2 because I've always

1312
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:15,240
talked talking key stage. 2
English or maths. 6 from this

1313
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:17,640
more maths.
Tradition of subtraction adding

1314
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,960
2 numbers.
Give me any, give me any of

1315
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:23,560
these small steps from this one
small step.

1316
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:24,880
No, here you go, this is what
I'm going to say.

1317
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,840
Give me any GPS, give me any
maths, arithmetic, anything like

1318
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:29,240
that.
Just give me the objective and

1319
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:31,240
give me a whiteboard and within
3 minutes I'll be as a teacher

1320
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:33,600
lesson on it.
Absolutely true, absolutely

1321
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,040
true.
And if people really like maths,

1322
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:36,720
they should put this into our
episode this week, shouldn't

1323
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:38,960
they?
Absolutely show because maths is

1324
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,360
our passion, as you all know.
And every time someone answers a

1325
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,160
question about subjects, right?
Yeah, we get 2 disclaimers on

1326
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:45,640
these questions.
It's always.

1327
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,960
And you can't choose maths and
then you love maths and the

1328
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:49,120
other one is you can't whisper
golds.

1329
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,160
If I just had a life of teaching
maths and eating whisper golds,

1330
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,800
I'd be loving it.
Oh my goodness me.

1331
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,000
I absolutely love doing
questions.

1332
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,800
I think they're really good.
If you have a question you want

1333
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,800
to ask us, please join our
WhatsApp community.

1334
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,040
It's completely free.
And you know what really,

1335
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:06,800
really, really helps us?
I'm going to be cheeky now and

1336
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,320
ask you again, you know what I'm
going to say?

1337
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,080
Leave us a review wherever
you're listening.

1338
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:11,600
If you're watching on YouTube,
subscribe.

1339
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,320
And like, if you're listening or
watching on Spotify, leave us a

1340
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,040
review.
If you're anywhere else.

1341
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,400
Well, I don't use those
platforms, but I'm glad you do.

1342
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,040
And you can probably leave us a
rating wherever you are.

1343
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:22,800
Exactly.
Hayden, anything to say before

1344
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:23,800
we finish up?
No, no, no, no.

1345
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,480
See you next time.
You really are slacking on those

1346
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:27,560
sign ups.