Ep 182: Are Schools Finally At Financial Breaking Point?

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Hello everyone, I got back to
another episode of Teach Stick

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name

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Hayden and I've got absolutely
no idea what this episode is

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about.
I know I've got an iPad in front

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of me.
And you don't?

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No, no.
Go on, context.

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What did you say there?
So basically I right, I watched

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a video on Instagram which I'll
talk about in a minute, and it

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made me think, oh, I kind of
want to discuss this with Dylan.

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I was about to send it to you
and I thought, no, we're going

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to record a podcast later.
It'll be quite fun to just have

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the conversation I would have
had with you over Messenger or

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something right on the podcast.
So what we can do is follow

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podcast bro culture and have
some of absolutely no research

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spout and nonsense.
That can be me, I don't.

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Know I didn't think that I was
like it'd be interesting to just

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get your thoughts.
You you read more you absorb

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more than me anyway in general
and I think you're you're just

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more opinionated.
You're more.

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In, in, in, in.
You're more insufferable.

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You're more happy with your
ignorance.

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Yeah, I was going.
To go through intelligent.

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But intelligent?
Yeah, Sorry, I was thinking of

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arrogant.
But intelligent?

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Yeah.
No, no, it's quite fun.

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Two sides.
Of the same.

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Coin, this is where we're very
different.

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So if you know, if you know as
well, maybe you've got it

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through the podcast.
I don't know, but I like to

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meticulously plan things.
Oh yeah.

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And Dylan quite likes to just go
off the Dome and talk about

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things, so I knew you'd be all
right with the idea of me just.

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I quite liked it.
Having a look at something and

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thinking, yeah, you can just
give me your.

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Reaction.
Not on my iPad.

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Everyone who watches anyone
watches the podcast knows I've

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always got my iPad on me.
I genuinely have no clue what's

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about to happen.
People clicking.

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Well, because the title, yeah,
probably away.

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Yeah.
But the context of this

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conversation is, I don't know,
you've done the research.

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Exactly.
Let's go so back to that

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Instagram video I was talking
about.

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It was just a clip from a panel
of people talking on the news.

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It had an EU representative
there, had a head teacher and

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had a couple of other people.
And it was quite a short clip.

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And they were just basically
talking about the fact that

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schools once again are at
breaking point.

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There's no money left that any
you person was, you know, very

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much saying the, the the 2025
pay rise, yeah, 4% is great, but

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it's not fully funded.
It was partially funded.

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And it's sort of like a dig at
the constant, constant, constant

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partially funded or unfunded pay
rises that have happened

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basically since 2010.
And he was saying we are at

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absolute breaking point.
Schools cannot find any more

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money.
There's nothing left in the

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budget.
This is ridiculous.

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We just can't do this.
And when I was watching it, I, I

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genuinely thought maybe a bit
controversial.

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I was like, is this the clip
from this year or the year

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before or the year before or the
year before or the year before?

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I was like, I've heard this
exact same line.

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Honest to God for my entire
career, any single year you put

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me out of pick me out of my
career and I'll find someone on

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the news saying we are at
absolute breaking point.

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There is nothing left in school
budgets.

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We can't do this unfunded pay
rise.

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The unfunded pay rise happens
anyway or partially funded and

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then school goes on and then
next year comes around, it

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happens again happens again.
And it genuinely LED me down the

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thought train of, are they just
wrong?

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Because I've always said this,
I've always been fully on that

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side of, yeah, we're at breaking
point.

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But there's only so many years
in a row we can be at absolute

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breaking point where nothing
could possibly go right for

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schools just to function for
another year.

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And it happened again before, I
think, when we said it eight

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years ago.
Yeah.

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Were we exaggerating?
That's pretty interesting.

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So that's the kind of point I
want to talk about and I kind of

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want to get your initial
reaction to that.

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So do you feel like we've been
hearing schools are on the brink

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of collapse?
Yeah, for basically the entire

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time we've.
Been.

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Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, when you first

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described it, before you even
said what you thought, my first

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thought was also, wow, still
beating that drum like it was,

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it was Jane, my first thought.
I think there's a lot of there's

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so much going on here.
It's a really interesting chat

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because if you think about what
we're defining as breaking

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point, probably is constantly
changing, right.

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So what we would say, you know,
let's just pick a, I'm going to

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pick a random date in the year
2017.

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Yeah, let's just say at that
point someone probably from the

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unions were saying we're at
breaking point.

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We can't possibly carry on.
During those years.

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We weren't actually getting pay
rises as a profession.

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So, so it was just cracking on
as normal.

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So maybe if you Fast forward a
bit more to when teachers

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actually start to get a bit more
of a pay rise, but it wasn't

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fully funded every year.
You're right.

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It's that it's that narrative of
we can't cope with this, we

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can't cope with this.
We're at breaking point.

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We're at breaking point, I would
say five years down the line,

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we're at the point that was
described as breaking point.

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It's just now we're re
describing breaking and and

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having a new definition of
breaking point.

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Because if you look, you know,
if you actually look at what

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happens every year, it isn't
just, oh, actually we got away

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with that and it was OK and and
we were wrong.

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It's we've reset what normal is
and we can't fathom you going

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further and then we go further
again.

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Then we reset what normal is
again.

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Then we reset what normal is
again.

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If you go back to just the start
of my career and I'm talking mid

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twenty 10s, the amount of I'm
going to just look at one

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example now, which is support
staff compared to now is

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genuinely like a skeleton crew
when you look at what support

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was actually available in the
classroom.

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So at that point it would be
breaking point.

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I think to envisage what's
happening now, you'd be thinking

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what?
But we just cope with it now and

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we got on with it.
What is breaking point?

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It's like it's worse for the
kids.

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Yeah, but is it the school is
suddenly doesn't function OK

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when?
OK, if that's your definition of

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breaking point, we're not going
to get there.

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And even if even if you know, in
the next couple of years, I saw

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something recently about I think
schools can only afford 2.7% or

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something like that in terms of
affordability for the next year

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or two for pay rises.
But obviously teachers are going

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to want more.
So either will come out of the

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budget or it has to be funded.
If that does, I don't think,

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let's say teachers get a four or
5% pay rise, but it's not fully

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funded.
Yeah, they'll be the narrative

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of we're at breaking point, but
will we reach breaking point

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after?
No, but we'll have fewer support

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staff.
We'll have less money for trips.

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We'll have less enrichment for
our children.

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Sure, things will take a hit,
but the school system will still

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run, which ultimately means
people will point out the NEU

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and people on these panels and
say, see, we're not breaking,

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we're fine and it justifies bad
decisions.

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Actually that I was going to
say, do you think that rhetoric

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that may be quote, exaggeration
of, of the meaning of breaking

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point perhaps that rhetoric, do
you think in any way it's

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undermined progression of
teacher pay and funding of

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schools?
Because people are hearing that

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and then the next year they're
saying, oh, everything seems to

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be functioning, though they
don't maybe know some of the

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cuts that happened, but they
they just see for the school

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from a service level and say,
well, the school's still open.

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So was the NEU person lying?
Do you think it undermines it at

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all?
Potentially, potentially, but

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sometimes you have to go over
the top.

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Even in our situation, we know
that where we have to think

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about hooks just to get people
listening in the 1st place.

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And then maybe the nuance comes
even a minute into our video,

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for example, right?
But you have to think of ways to

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grab attention.
And if the unions plodded along

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saying, oh, that's frustrating,
but schools would cope.

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They can't say that line.
If you're, if you're, if you're

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in the opposite position of the
government, the role of the

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union is to is to be the voice
in the extreme, the other way.

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That's the role of the union,
right.

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I will.
I'm being completely genuine now

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where a lot of the time, despite
me always backing the Union a

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lot of the time, in my opinion,
in my raw base opinion, I think

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they go too far the other way
sometimes in terms of their

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rhetoric and their language,
right, Right.

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But I think it's the right thing
for them to do, and they're

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doing their role, sure.
You think that's that is they

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have to do that.
They're supposed to be the

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extreme exactly version of that
side of the argument.

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Precisely.
And quite often, I think you're

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not doing your job enough.
You need to be more extreme.

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Yeah, not because I necessarily
hold the view that for example,

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I don't actually think teachers
should get, I don't think it's

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reasonable or something I expect
for teachers to get full

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restorative pay within a year if
you compare to their their

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salaries in the 90s or the OR
the naughties, right.

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I don't think that's realistic
and I don't think it's what I

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would actually push for because
I don't think it can happen.

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However, I do think the union
should be much closer to that as

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that being their starting point,
because you have to have an

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extreme starting point if your
role is to represent the

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profession and defenders because
it's a negotiation then.

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So, so I, I actually fully think
that it's, it's very similar,

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not to talk politics too much,
but you see the rise of reform

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over the last few years and I
think it's a net good thing

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genuinely for the country and
the rhetoric of, of political

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discourse to have a much
stronger far left party in, in

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the discourse.
Now do I First I'll talk, I'll

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talk politics very briefly in
terms of I absolutely don't

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support reform, but I do also
think that the Green Party in

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many aspects are far are too far
the other way in terms of what I

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think would genuinely work for
the country.

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Right.
So in in my politics, I'm I'm

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between those two parties.
I don't need to go into exactly

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where I am.
I'm definitely more left-leaning

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in general, but I, I think
discourse was just yearning for

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that voice of just just be the
extreme the other way.

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So at least we can have this as
a discussion and more people

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will land somewhere in the
middle, which I think is more

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healthy for the country.
Sure.

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I I think it's it's a similar
kind of idea at the end of year

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in the unions.
They have to be pushing it.

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The the unions can't be seen to
be saying oh it's not a breaking

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point would cope.
It's frustrating.

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As soon as they say that the
government will sniff blood.

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OK, it's fine, yeah, OK, it's
fine.

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It's not a breaking .0 God,
thank goodness.

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So whilst I think my base
opinion is that probably, you

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know, it clearly isn't breaking
point right?

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If it's happened 6 times in a
row and we're still not OK.

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But I I think it's the right
thing to do to push for as much

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as you can possibly get in the
right direction ultimately for

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the children of the country.
Yeah, yeah.

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I guess my worry is maybe public
perception is more altered by

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the idea that they care
something I don't know.

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I, I think so.
I think public perception of

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teachers because it's a public
service, I think for, for a lot.

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Do you?
Think it's bad though.

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Do you think it's actually bad?
Like just cutting through the

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nonsense?
Not nonsense.

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00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,560
Cutting through the the trope
of, you know, teachers are hated

227
00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:19,320
and we've literally done stuff
before about why a lot of people

228
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,440
hate teachers.
Yeah, I think the vast majority

229
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,040
of people really respect our
profession.

230
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,160
I think maybe the loudest people
are the most disrespectful.

231
00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,560
Maybe, but do what makes you
think that matters a lot?

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00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:33,240
Like do you think that matters
more than than what I've just

233
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,840
explained as to why I think the
NEU should be more extreme in

234
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,880
that version?
Do you think public perception

235
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:39,840
outweighs that and therefore the
NEU should draw back?

236
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,760
I don't know.
I mean, I'm torn to be honest

237
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:42,600
with you.
I don't know whether it

238
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,240
outweighs it or not, but I do
think it's quite significantly

239
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:46,600
important.
I think public perception of

240
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,120
teaching and public services in
general, I do think it's really

241
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,600
important because we the public
shapes things like if enough

242
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,640
people are backing a certain
professional, certain idea,

243
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,200
things get things change when
they're when they're easily

244
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,600
manipulated by media because
some someone takes what any you

245
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,800
guys said as a headline and
says, see that didn't Oh, he

246
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,200
said this and three years ago, 1
breaking point then isn't

247
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:05,720
breaking point now.
Teachers wanted that at home

248
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,480
doing nothing.
They already get 13 weeks off.

249
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,840
Right.
And that imagine that influences

250
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,600
hundreds of thousands of people.
And I go, yeah, actually it's

251
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:11,680
rubbish.
My kid went to school then I'm

252
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:13,560
still going to school now.
I'm not seeing any difference.

253
00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,640
Like this is ridiculous.
Teachers are stupid and it goes

254
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,200
down this whole avenue.
I think.

255
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:18,960
I personally think that's
important in terms of driving

256
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,520
change to have at least a
certain proportion of the public

257
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:22,880
on your side.
And I don't think enough of the

258
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,200
public are on our side.
It's just my gut feeling.

259
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:26,480
Obviously.
And if you want to make change

260
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,520
in politics, ultimately
politicians, whether we like it

261
00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,800
or not, the system at players
that they're winning votes,

262
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,520
they're winning minds.
And if there's no appetite to

263
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,400
help that, then I can imagine
quite a few people will just

264
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,480
turn a blind eye to them.
I even look at, I genuinely even

265
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,960
look at the current government
now, which traditionally would

266
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,040
be more on the side of education
and probably is making decisions

267
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,760
that other governments wouldn't.
I still, it's not going nearly

268
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,600
far enough and we're still
having these conversations.

269
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,920
So ultimately my point is, yeah,
there's only so far public

270
00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,080
perception can go.
We've got to the government now,

271
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,520
which are traditionally like
more, more sympathetic towards

272
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,760
education and support it more
and, and, and have more

273
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,880
supporters in education and
we're still not getting far

274
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,760
enough.
So my view is like to me,

275
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,600
therefore we have to be
dramatic, I think.

276
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,720
And when we're looking at a
discussion with the government

277
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,040
and a negotiation, we have to
start further along.

278
00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:19,120
That's fair enough.
I want to pick up on something

279
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,760
you said.
This is a bit of script so you

280
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,400
know can you can imagine I'm
quite nervous now, but off my.

281
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,840
Subscriptions at the start, they
know.

282
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:26,960
And you're and you're loving it.
I can see you're in your in

283
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,440
your.
Own I am I like thinking on the

284
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,040
spot your own maybe when it's
released in some more questions

285
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,360
me I'll be like I didn't think
of that, but this is all off the

286
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:34,840
Dome it's.
Part part fun, isn't it?

287
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:36,040
And we'll address it in another
episode if.

288
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:37,760
You need to and everything I'm
saying is completely right, so

289
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,000
yeah.
Could possibly be otherwise.

290
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:40,840
Right.
No, I'm enjoying this.

291
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,040
I like this.
Earlier on in the conversation,

292
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,920
this is a bit bit different, but
you, you said that you

293
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,160
understand that it's not
actually necessarily realistic

294
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,760
in your opinion that we go for
like restorative pay in one

295
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,120
year, like teachers get suddenly
a 20% pay rise, even though the

296
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,960
any you and and unions in
general are sort of fighting for

297
00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,200
that.
Are they?

298
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:00,800
But they certainly say it,
they're not.

299
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,400
It's it's in.
But they're not fighting for

300
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:03,480
that.
Just to be clear.

301
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,000
I, I, they're absolutely.
I've not seen that anywhere.

302
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,840
As in for one year?
But my but yeah, but my example

303
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,160
is they should be pushing like
at the front of the paper for

304
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:12,640
that.
Sure.

305
00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:14,480
OK.
So even with that in mind, you

306
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,760
know, it's slightly worded it
wrong there, But the idea that

307
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,200
maybe they're slightly more
extreme views, you don't

308
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,440
necessarily always think that
that's exactly what we should do

309
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:22,400
right now.
Or you think there's maybe an

310
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,480
element of realism that
sometimes overrides it a little.

311
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,760
Bit exactly that maybe
ideologically I think that's

312
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,080
exactly the right thing to do,
yeah.

313
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,960
But I don't actually personally
think like I I I can sympathise

314
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,320
to an extent of what I
ideologically believe to be true

315
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,760
and the right thing to do isn't
necessarily realistically going

316
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,680
to.
Happen tomorrow yeah because

317
00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:40,680
it's because like the restraints
put some budget like that would

318
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:43,640
be a lot of money and
significant amount to do in one

319
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,360
step right If you were to say we
need a 20% pay rise this year

320
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,000
like it's huge there's a lot of
teachers.

321
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,360
Do you feel the same about
maternity pay?

322
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,240
Because recently you I've quite
openly, I think sort of even in

323
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:55,800
our silly skit with on
Instagram.

324
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,560
And I think you've had, you've
mentioned it a few times in the

325
00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:01,400
podcast as well about the, the
doubling of maternity pay from 4

326
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,760
weeks to 8 weeks for pay, right?
You've openly, I'd say shunned

327
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,560
that in terms of not that it's
objectively a bad thing to have

328
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:10,400
more, but you have very quickly
been like, it's not really good

329
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:11,760
enough though, is it?
When the, when the people that

330
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,120
are saying this get 26 weeks,
the DfE themselves, do you still

331
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,360
sympathise in that situation
with the idea that, yeah, but

332
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,560
it's because there's hundreds of
thousands of teachers, the vast

333
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,960
majority are women.
And it would be a massive,

334
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,200
massive, massive cost.
Even if ideologically we would

335
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,360
love to say the DfE who are
significantly smaller in numbers

336
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:32,680
than the amount of teachers in
the country.

337
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,320
It's easy for them to have 26
weeks because it's because it's

338
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,640
not like they've got hundreds of
thousands of them, whereas they

339
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,160
they simply can't make that
decision.

340
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:40,960
Do you sympathise with that at
all, or do you think they should

341
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,080
just do better?
No, I do sympathise with it, but

342
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,680
I think there's, I think this is
a on a, on a scale like that, we

343
00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,600
really need to contextualise in
terms of when I'm saying about

344
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,200
restorative pay and that's a
huge jump.

345
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:52,720
Obviously I don't think it can
happen tomorrow.

346
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,920
I'm also saying the NEU should
be on that line and pushing for

347
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,200
as much as they possibly can.
Sure.

348
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,480
I think with maternity pay it's
exactly the same.

349
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:03,080
The NEU should be at the front
forefront and including people

350
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:03,840
like us.
To be fair.

351
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,400
I personally think in terms of a
family and maternity, I find it

352
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:11,840
that to me is like next level
level important in terms of the

353
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:13,840
ability to raise the next
generation yourself.

354
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,720
Like in terms of the scale of
importance, I think that's huge

355
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,320
and it's just relative to your
own income as well.

356
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,760
So I just think it should, it
should just be that if a family

357
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,880
are having a baby, there's a
certain amount of support they

358
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,240
get that's at a level that's
consistent.

359
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,640
I find that, and this is across
Koreas, I find that insane

360
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,320
within teaching itself, we talk
about the importance of pushing

361
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:36,400
up pay.
I still think that's really

362
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,320
important.
I also think that it's how

363
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,640
things are delivered.
So when the government say, for

364
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,160
example, OK, do you know what?
It's not restorative but we're

365
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,880
going to give you nought .5%
above inflation, which to me

366
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,320
would be similar to saying 4
weeks full pay and then two

367
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,400
weeks 90% and then the rest of
that actually is going to be 8

368
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,000
weeks full pay now, which
someone wiped out as like 900 to

369
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,440
£1500 a month a year more,
right?

370
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,160
It's not huge.
No, it's small.

371
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,920
So if that equivalent happened
with pay, I would be the first

372
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,400
one to come out and say as well,
yeah, it's great, just like I

373
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,200
did with maternity pay.
But I'm not saying this is bad

374
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:10,400
news.
Obviously it's good news to give

375
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,480
people more money, but this has
to be the goal we have to be

376
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:12,840
pushing.
Yeah.

377
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,280
It's not good enough.
It's not good enough.

378
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,120
This is still no, we're near
authority of like, cool, thanks.

379
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,440
Let's not pretend that you've
just revolutionised.

380
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,240
Exactly.
I don't think my, I think my

381
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,400
reactions pretty much the same
in terms of if that happened

382
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,240
with pay, I'd be like, yeah, OK,
that's great.

383
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,960
But it is kind of a minimum we
expect here.

384
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,720
And if you go back to maternity
pay, I think even if the I'm

385
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,120
going to come out and said, you
know what, 26 weeks is

386
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,200
completely unrealistic.
Like I said before, restorative

387
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,280
pay, we can't push to that.
Even if they come out and say,

388
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,920
but you know what, 3 months for
full pay, you know, with trip,

389
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,120
they can come and say what they
want.

390
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,040
We've doubled it, we've tripled
it.

391
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,000
We've done all this whatever,
three months full pay with a

392
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,760
plan to increase as time goes
on, right?

393
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,800
That to me would be more
acceptable, but I would still

394
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,160
be, I still think you should
always be pushing and pushing

395
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,800
and pushing.
And I think where you think

396
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,240
something should be and where it
is now is not always going to be

397
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,960
the same.
But I think you can definitely

398
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,120
judge the past and the way
something's presented.

399
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,600
Because what I saw with
maternity pay, it was presented

400
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,880
as we're doubling it and we're
going to help recruitment now

401
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,840
because mums, young mums, are
the first people leaving the

402
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,040
profession.
So that's just false.

403
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,200
I don't think going for four
weeks full pay to 8 weeks full

404
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,440
pay maternity will mean anyone
stays in teaching when they

405
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:24,560
return.
More sure.

406
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,520
Like, are we having a laugh?
Are we joking?

407
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,200
And I think there is a huge
injustice when you compare it to

408
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,320
what the state are giving other
people in public, public roles.

409
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
With pay.

410
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,800
Look, I, I think, I think it's
different because if I look at

411
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,160
what the junior doctors are
getting huge pay rises, like

412
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,360
they are actually in like the
20s percent heading towards

413
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,360
restoration much more quickly.
Great on them.

414
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,080
I'm actually, I'm not using that
as my bar, as T.

415
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,760
We should also be getting the
25%.

416
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,480
I was like, OK, you know, you've
got to prioritise as a

417
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,080
government, you've got to
understand, actually to me, me,

418
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,920
me personally as a teacher, I
feel like that's a more pressing

419
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,360
issue for the doctors who've
gone through medical school and

420
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,280
done 678 years in university to
become doctors, People who look

421
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,760
after our most vulnerable people
in the world and sickness and

422
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,200
like, it's a, it's a high
skilled job, high skilled,

423
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,440
considerably more debt,
considerably more debt and there

424
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,480
are more money.
Everything scales up and I'm

425
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,599
like, you know what?
I, I, that's fine to me.

426
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,920
I'm not going to use that to
equate to teaching.

427
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,160
So whereas with maternity pay,
it's, it is already scaled to

428
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,480
your, to your amount that you're
earning.

429
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,320
And I, I just think that when
we're talking about raising

430
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,440
children as the next generation,
it should just be like a level

431
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:34,960
playing field there in terms of
what you're getting paid.

432
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,800
Definitely.
Or at least considerably closer.

433
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,160
That's the first step.
Because it is wildly, wildly

434
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,400
different, isn't.
It and that's my issue.

435
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,440
I think that's that's what I'm
saying there is like.

436
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,000
Come on the the the idea that is
is true, isn't it?

437
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,600
It feels like a very like a
remnant of just the past as in

438
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,520
terms of the way the system
works now doesn't really make

439
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,880
sense for our values now.
And the idea that one family

440
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,160
will have a year of maternity
and another family will have 4

441
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,960
weeks of maternity and they both
just work in the grand scheme,

442
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,080
relatively normal jobs, right?
It's just, it is actually

443
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,240
objectively crazy, isn't it?
I mean, they're both just, they

444
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,160
both just need help.
They're both just raising the

445
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,000
next generation of children to
run our society that we'll live

446
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,560
in and be retired.
And by the way, one day we're

447
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,960
going to need these people
looking after us like.

448
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,280
It doesn't, it doesn't.
That doesn't cut with me when

449
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,040
they say like, how many, you
know, teaching as a female

450
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,600
dominating profession and, and
lots of them are in that age

451
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,680
bracket where they're going to
have kids.

452
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,800
So yeah.
So this is about a mother being

453
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,200
at home with their child without
having to worry about the bank

454
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,880
balance because we live in a
society now where there's two

455
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,480
income families.
Yeah.

456
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,240
So no matter what your family
dynamic is, however it works,

457
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,480
you need 2 incomes to to sustain
a family a lot of the time to

458
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,720
sustain a household.
So it is a huge hit now it's

459
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,000
it's not the same as the 90s.
Yeah, when maybe one person was

460
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,360
part time or maybe one person
earned significantly less.

461
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,680
Quite often in the situation of
being the woman and the mum,

462
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,280
maternity pay, it wasn't as much
of a hit.

463
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,200
Now it's equal pay.
I've, I've Lauren learned more

464
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,200
than me for a lot of her career.
So when one person's is at home

465
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,920
now and misses out on income for
that length time, whoever they

466
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,000
are, that is a huge hit on the
household income.

467
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,360
And the household income is what
you base your life off.

468
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:19,680
That's what I base my mortgage
off.

469
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,080
That's what I base my outgoings
off.

470
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,480
And then when it comes to
choosing to have a child, there

471
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,640
is a massive, massive difference
to sitting down and going well,

472
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,000
one of us is only going to get 4
weeks full pay and we're going

473
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,760
to have to sacrifice a lot of
money for the whole year or all

474
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,000
good.
We're going to have a whole year

475
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,040
full pay between us.
We're all dandy.

476
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,800
It's, it's, it's ridiculous.
Like it's such a huge impact.

477
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,120
And to me, it's so much
different to a bit of a boost in

478
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,000
your pay just in general as your
pay packet.

479
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,160
Sure, Although that's important.
This to me, like when I talked

480
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,360
about scales earlier, this is
much more important to me and I

481
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:56,160
think society as a whole.
And I think when you compare it,

482
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,800
it's it's.
That is non that is outrageous

483
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,160
in my opinion.
Yeah, yeah, definitely no.

484
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,240
OK went off on a bit of a
tangent there, but jumping back

485
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,680
into the kind of pointless
episode which was about that,

486
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,160
you know, I can't go off
tangent.

487
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,280
I don't know what's going on a
little what the tangent is

488
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,880
talking absolute nonsense.
Yes, could be.

489
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,440
So I want to dive into some
stats right related to.

490
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,160
With it to what we were
originally talking about, about

491
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,800
the idea of schools being on the
brink of collapse and the

492
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:19,800
challenges we've had towards
that.

493
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:24,440
So 2010 that whole that whole
decade basically the 20 tens

494
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,480
was.
Terrible World Cup in 2010.

495
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,800
Which is what kicked.
Away home fans booing, yeah,

496
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,240
yeah, we drew against Algeria
wasn't.

497
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,560
It China fantastic as a huge fan
so.

498
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,560
Rob Green's fumble bit our first
game against USA.

499
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:39,480
Won one draw.
We were.

500
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,600
Pat Rob Green.
Sorry, I'd just get myself back

501
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,040
to. 20 yeah, no, I was Rob
Green.

502
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,920
He'd he'd really annoyed me as
well.

503
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,480
So yeah.
So that that whole decade,

504
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,840
right.
So here's the stats.

505
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,480
I was looking, I went down a bit
of rabbit hole here because it

506
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,760
is quite interesting.
So there's a stat of literally

507
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,600
just how much a school spends
per pupil.

508
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,200
Is is one of many stats, as you
can imagine, that we track

509
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,160
various things on in schools and
it was an interesting one.

510
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,960
So the school spending per pupil
across that decade dropped by 9%

511
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,400
in real terms.
Oh my God.

512
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,080
So that's from the Institute for
Fiscal Studies.

513
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,280
That was a 2021 study austerity
baby just after, right, which we

514
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,600
all know like that was quite
obviously happening during that

515
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,120
time.
But when you hear it, it's like.

516
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,520
This is what I meant earlier
when I said about breaking

517
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,080
point.
So if you said that in 2010 that

518
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,520
that would happen, you'd be
like, what?

519
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,080
Yeah, that'll take us to
breaking points.

520
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,680
Absolutely.
And it's like, that's a, in my

521
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,360
opinion, a fair thing to say.
You're defining breaking point

522
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,440
not as the school literally
shutting down.

523
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,600
Yeah, yeah, you're defining
breaking point as below an

524
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,640
acceptable level, like so the
the whole, sorry, I know I'm

525
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:39,480
cutting across what you're
saying.

526
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,800
I want to really clarify what
breaking point here.

527
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,400
The issue comes with how people
are defining breaking point.

528
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,640
Because if you define breaking
point as the school can't

529
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,920
function anymore and it's
literally closed, then it's

530
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,080
going to take out a lot more.
We'd have to half the bud, do

531
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,480
you know what I mean?
We'd have a skeleton school in

532
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,640
place, OK, We can we can kind of
care for children and do our

533
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,680
best, right?
But we're defining breaking

534
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,560
point as like, is that
acceptable now in this society

535
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,480
that we just think just a 10%
flat cut on what we're spending

536
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,920
on kids clearly to me is
breaking point.

537
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,880
But when you Fast forward to
2020 and you're like, whoa,

538
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,600
we're still here, guys.
It's like, yeah, OK.

539
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,320
Is that the bar?
Is the bar existence of a school

540
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,400
that's fun like?
What we're saying, yeah, it's

541
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,400
frustrating, I agree.
And I think we can, I think we

542
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,240
should regularly revisit this
idea of what breaking point is,

543
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,960
by the way.
Because I, I also felt like as I

544
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,160
was reading more and more that
breaking point is when stuff

545
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,760
breaks in the current model,
genuine.

546
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,320
That sounds really stupid,
because that's not obviously

547
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:28,680
what it is.
When we can't fulfil what we're

548
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,760
currently fulfilling.
Yeah, exactly that.

549
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,560
OK, this system is broke.
We created a new system, right,

550
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,440
that had a lower bar.
Exactly that.

551
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,480
Yeah, because we can always do
more for kids.

552
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,080
We never got to the top and
thought, Oh my God, we're doing

553
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,480
everything we possibly could do
now.

554
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:43,960
The only way is down.
That's not true.

555
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,160
And.
We could always do less for

556
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:45,880
kids.
Exactly.

557
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:46,920
And that's what happened
Exactly.

558
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,440
So that's what breaking point
was to me.

559
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,720
It was like, oh, we've got to
this lovely equilibrium right

560
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,600
now of like we're of all the
things we're providing fighting

561
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,200
for children through various
ways.

562
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,160
And what's happened over that
decade is we lost loads of that.

563
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,360
We lost 9% to be exact.
The the people spending whatever

564
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:02,880
that was on.
We can go through if we want to,

565
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,120
but I'm so I can imagine the
things we spend, you know, money

566
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:06,920
on kids.
Think of the support, you know,

567
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,880
if a speech and language
therapist didn't came in once

568
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,120
every six months and now instead
of once every month beforehand,

569
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,440
right.
Is it breaking point?

570
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,080
Like, OK, maybe someone could
argue with me it's not breaking

571
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,480
point, but I could definitely
say back to you, it's it's

572
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,920
objectively crap.
Yeah, because it's objectively

573
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,080
worse and awful.
And I could say for a child, it

574
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,920
is their breaking point.
They're not getting the speech

575
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:27,840
and language there.
Exactly.

576
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,840
Anymore, the only way you could
possibly argue against that is

577
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,480
to suggest that when they were
coming in once a month, five of

578
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:33,640
those six months they were doing
nothing.

579
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,280
Yeah, that's the only way you
could say it was a worthy cut.

580
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:37,600
Yeah.
Because if they were doing stuff

581
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,920
in those six months that was
actually helping a child, then

582
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,880
by going from six months to one
month, you are objectively, it's

583
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:43,960
worse.
You're not doing.

584
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:46,360
Child would have got something
and now they're not.

585
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:47,600
It is as simple as that.
So.

586
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,760
Yeah, and that child even needed
it or didn't, Right?

587
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,600
Right.
And if we're thinking it's not

588
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,600
breaking point and acceptable,
we're saying all of the things

589
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,960
we've cut were superfluous.
We didn't need, didn't need

590
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,880
them, and it's like luxuries.
It's like, okay, someone would

591
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,720
still say, well, we didn't need
them because it's okay.

592
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,480
Now it's like, Oh my God, what
do we mean by need?

593
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,920
Okay, let's just, it just goes
into this semantics.

594
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,520
It winds me up and we can, we
can change the whole thing we

595
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,800
want.
And it turns into the standard

596
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,400
of what the children get gets
lower.

597
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,040
Yeah, and and you can't argue
you.

598
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,440
Just have to say, okay, I'm
happy with that.

599
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,720
Yeah, I think some people were
like, genuinely right, really.

600
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,880
I honestly got like looking at
the graph is really interesting

601
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,280
because it showed spending
before that as well.

602
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,560
It did, as we know from the 90s
with Labour as well and Blair,

603
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,280
the spending rapidly went up.
Yeah, rapidly went up.

604
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,040
Like the provision children were
getting?

605
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,160
Yeah.
Increased significance they put

606
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,440
their money with their put their
money with they spent a lot of

607
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,440
money on kids right, but I felt
that as well when I was in

608
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,560
school and it's ridiculous to
think that I could be 567 and

609
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,200
feeling that.
But if I just look back, we had

610
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,920
everything we needed and you
know what sometimes we had more

611
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,840
than we needed right if we're
just going off need and that's a

612
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,240
what a sign of a Great Society.
I know that a boy from a council

613
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,680
flat of a single mom could go
into school and grow a

614
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,520
Caterpillar and have a
Caterpillar as a pet and also a

615
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,560
brand new computer got put in
there honest and like and have

616
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,480
playground equipment they could
play with that he didn't have at

617
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,400
home.
It's like, well, we don't need

618
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,800
that.
It's like, no, we don't need

619
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,920
that, do we but say, can we just
give it to our kids for the next

620
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,000
year?
Well, we don't need it.

621
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,680
We don't need anything.
Kids they are.

622
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,840
Kids.
Oh my God, what is wrong with

623
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,360
people?
They are our kids.

624
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,480
We're supposed to do better for
our next generation.

625
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,120
We're not supposed to say, well,
I didn't have it.

626
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:26,920
That feels like that.
I.

627
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,280
Didn't have UFO boxy ball on my
playground, turned out just

628
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,760
fine.
You didn't turn out fine, did

629
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:32,760
you?
Clearly.

630
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,080
Didn't need it.
Didn't have it.

631
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,000
Don't want it.
Leave it at you, son.

632
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:37,680
All right.
What?

633
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,640
What?
Changed in the psyche of some

634
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,320
people to think that an
improvement for the next

635
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,080
generation was something to be.
Jealous of?

636
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,280
I know, yeah.
What you what you I I personally

637
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,440
would love for my son to do 10
times more and achieve 10 times

638
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,720
more than what's crazy.
In the current state of things,

639
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,560
your son will not get as as good
provision as you did.

640
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,200
No, he won't because we lived
through that, that golden era of

641
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,280
lots of funding in schools and
it's just basically been

642
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,320
decimated since then.
Our kids will not get a good

643
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,040
ride as what we got.
In terms of simply, I'm not not

644
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,040
judging teachers.
I'm not judging.

645
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,200
I'm literally just saying in
terms of how much money gets put

646
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,000
into the system, money obviously
translates to services and

647
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,800
resources.
They're not going to get as good

648
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,000
a deal.
Simple as that.

649
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,320
That's crazy.
And that makes me 30 years.

650
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:24,640
That's not good.
No.

651
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,960
And some people go taxpayers
saved on that.

652
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,240
I don't have kids.
Why should I be paying for it?

653
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,080
Because you're a member of
society and you were a kid.

654
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,640
Yeah, everyone was a kid.
Whether you want your own

655
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,920
children or not, there is just a
duty of care to the next

656
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,560
generation to at least provide
them with what you got.

657
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,040
And if you end up having to
provide the next generation with

658
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,480
less than what you received, you
have failed as a generation.

659
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,280
Genuinely, we are failing our
next generation because how on

660
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,840
earth can we hold our head up
and say that aren't we found?

661
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,320
No, the planet's dying.
There's nothing in terms of

662
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,440
services anymore.
You can't get a doctor's

663
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,640
appointment.
Schools have been decimated in

664
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,640
terms of their funding.
What have we improved with

665
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,280
latching on to big tech to say,
oh, well, that's improved

666
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,360
because we can get information
at our fingertips now?

667
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,920
Yeah.
Is that the only win?

668
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,000
Is it doom scrolling algorithms
that infest your brain?

669
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,000
Nice one.
What a great thing to pass on to

670
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,640
the kids.
Dylan, don't forget you don't

671
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,120
have to read anymore because
because AI will do it for you.

672
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,320
That's your mate, that's your
actual opinion, right?

673
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:26,200
You can get a summary for five.
Minutes I mean that's true.

674
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,320
I do quite like that No, no, I
didn't want to do that I want to

675
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,480
go to the next level of AI.
I don't have to think at all.

676
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,840
Do it for me, no.
But I agree, it's crazy.

677
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,240
It's like.
What happened?

678
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,480
Almost.
What happened honestly, did, did

679
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,760
something happen or did people
just say, you know, this is like

680
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,160
you, this is interesting.
Just a side note again of

681
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,680
austerity and cuts where there's
some people who didn't want to

682
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,560
do what they did, but thought we
just got to do that.

683
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,800
Probably.
Of course, like from what I've

684
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,760
heard, you know, I listen to a
lot of podcasts, a lot of

685
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,280
information, a lot of politics
chat and a lot of people who

686
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,400
were literally in power over
those years and a bunch of them

687
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,200
say, oh, we just had to do it.
It doesn't wash with me

688
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,480
personally because there is
always more.

689
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,000
There's there's always another
option.

690
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:09,920
And I think you've only got to
look internationally to see what

691
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,240
other roads people check because
it was a global financial crisis

692
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,960
at the end of the day.
So, you know, there are a lot of

693
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,560
countries who are in a mess and
went about it in different ways.

694
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,120
I personally just think that
there are certain things in a

695
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,560
society that are sacrosanct and
if you're going to take them

696
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,560
cuts for that generation, it's
it's terrible.

697
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,480
But if you think as a country,
we have to do that, there has to

698
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,840
be a plan for restoration 100%
for for.

699
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,080
And I'm not talking about
restoration.

700
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,400
We're paying now.
I'm talking about restoration

701
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,760
just for the basic services
you're providing the next

702
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,160
generation of your country.
Like we talk about patriotism so

703
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,320
much currently and it feels like
to me, patriotism has just been

704
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,080
rebranded as I'm the most
important thing and people who

705
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,440
are like me are most important
thing and I've got a flag up.

706
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,520
Patriotism to me would be having
a country that is actually

707
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,080
thinking I'm going to idolise
the next generation and give

708
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,480
them everything I possibly can.
And I'm going to work and I'm

709
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,680
going to graft and I'm going to
make sure the people who come

710
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,720
after me get more than what I
got.

711
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,480
And as a country we develop and
grow and we improve.

712
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,240
Not it's selfish patriotism at
the minute.

713
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,320
It winds me up because I I feel
I grow up quite patriotic and

714
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,240
patriotism at the minute seems
to be selfish and me centred and

715
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,080
I want this and I want that and
the group of people I associate

716
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,800
with need to be better off
because we're the ones who are

717
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,920
the worst off at the minute.
Jesus Christ.

718
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,240
If we're thinking about
patriotism, I could think of 17

719
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,720
things that should be improved
if I want to live in a better

720
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,680
country and it doesn't involve
getting red paint and going to a

721
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,560
roundabout.
It involves funding things that

722
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,200
actually make it work in this
country.

723
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,440
And I understand when people see
the news and go to their local

724
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,280
doctors and they can't get an
appointment or go to the Tesco

725
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,840
and their food shops twice as
much now and then look at their

726
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,840
bill and their taxes gone up and
they think what is happening

727
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,720
here?
Like how on earth is this a

728
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,080
thing that I live in my country?
This is awful.

729
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,360
The reaction to that should be
let's improve it.

730
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,440
But the reaction seems to be and
it's because of them.

731
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,600
And it's it's, it's nothing to
do with them.

732
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,680
That is not the reason why these
14 things are falling apart.

733
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,960
I can assure you that you and
you can you can immigration.

734
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:13,640
It's getting really political
now.

735
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,520
You can tell we I'm planning
this immigration, right is a

736
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:22,320
very important discussion, which
is completely valid.

737
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,760
And I don't like how it's gone
down the road of if you think

738
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,640
this, you're automatically that
if you think this, you're

739
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,480
racist.
If you think that, you're a beta

740
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,520
lefty, right?
Nonsense.

741
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,680
Even if if you talk about this,
you're wrong.

742
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:35,840
Yeah, exactly that.
Exactly.

743
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,520
No, no, no, it's really
important and it's completely

744
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,680
valid to have certain concerns
about the sheer number of

745
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,480
people.
I I think that's a valid

746
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,480
concern, right?
Sure.

747
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,120
In terms of if you just look
historically and you think about

748
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,760
the infrastructure that we have
as well, it's, it's OK to

749
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,240
question these things.
And when someone demonises you

750
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,840
straight away, I really don't
like that.

751
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,520
Even if I don't necessarily
agree with your point of view of

752
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,760
some people saying no one should
be coming in at all, right?

753
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,480
My personal views are relevant
here.

754
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,800
I think it would be healthy to
have a debate and I think that's

755
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,840
being stifled by a lot of people
right now.

756
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,480
But after that, the only thing
that you should be talking about

757
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,720
is how can we improve?
How can we get better?

758
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,520
How can we help each other?
That's all I personally think is

759
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,240
important.
And all I see is the vision at

760
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,480
the lowest possible level.
And who's laughing?

761
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,320
The owner of the newspaper who's
been stocking it.

762
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,480
Who's laughing?
The CEO of Tesco, who've doubled

763
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,720
their prices, who get more, you
know, profit than ever before.

764
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,640
Mark Zuckerberg, head of Meadow,
who's getting more eyes on the

765
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,280
screen.
They're the ones laughing.

766
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,840
They're the ones who are
benefiting from this.

767
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,520
And we're here fighting each
other about it.

768
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,080
And we're just as bad.
I say we as like, I'm on a side,

769
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,840
like if it was to pick a side,
I'd be on the side of I'm, I'm

770
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,360
very wary of people who demonise
immigration.

771
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,480
I think that's a horrible road
to go down.

772
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,920
And I personally don't like it.
And I, I, I champion

773
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:01,320
immigration.
I think it's a good thing.

774
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,240
But I also, when someone says
loads of people are coming in,

775
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,160
how on earth we're affording
this, it's costing the taxpayer

776
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,520
a lot of money.
It's a legitimate concern.

777
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,720
Yeah, it's legitimate.
Just like it's legitimate when

778
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,920
you say, oh, my doctors, it's
not getting the adequate funding

779
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,560
from the top down now and it's
had another 100 people want to

780
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,080
join.
I'm going to get worse

781
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,080
healthcare now.
Legitimate.

782
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,240
But what do you do after that?
Do you just scapegoat and point

783
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,000
at the low level or do you
think, wait a minute, why is

784
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,800
this doctors not had more of an
infrastructure boost in the last

785
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,760
10 years?
Why are we not building more

786
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,000
infrastructure in this country
as a?

787
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,720
Whole why is that school falling
down for the last 15 years and

788
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,840
we've not done anything about?
It's not because someone joined

789
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,480
from Turkey.
That's not the thing that's

790
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,320
making that school break.
We just had a whole discussion

791
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,800
about how 9% per kid got caught.
Yeah, there, that's a big

792
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,400
problem.
Like I don't want to diminish

793
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,920
other problems because I think
people can have their opinions

794
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,480
and stuff and I think you can
have really good discussions

795
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,120
with lots of people when it
bears into just blatant racism.

796
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,280
They can just get in the bin.
I've got nothing.

797
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,320
I don't want anything to do with
them.

798
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,160
But when you demonise people for
just having opinions that are

799
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,120
just completely valid, then I
get annoyed because all that

800
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,400
happens then is you shut a
conversation down and you pit

801
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,680
people against each other and
nothing happens.

802
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,720
And the only voices that get
through are extremist ones

803
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,760
exactly is either I've got this
most black and white thing and

804
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,200
and it's just this one thing.
My one thing is the correct way.

805
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,000
Everything else is wrong.
And then the polar opposites of

806
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:25,520
that.
And that's it.

807
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,240
That's all you hear.
That's yeah, that's basically

808
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,560
where we're at, isn't?
It I, I remember once, I'll tell

809
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,720
our story quickly because it was
the classic thing of to, to me,

810
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:39,680
this, this seemed like a pure
discrimination where I had a

811
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,320
child in my class who joined,
didn't speak any English.

812
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,480
Obviously it came from a
different came from a different

813
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,760
country.
And so he had his own place, had

814
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,040
his own tray.
Lovely boy.

815
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,280
He just cracked on with some of
the stuff that we sorted out for

816
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,200
him.
And over the years he learned

817
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,640
the language and he integrated
just fine.

818
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,080
It was, it was not a problem.
And a parent said, Oh, can I,

819
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,200
can my child not sit next to
him, please?

820
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,720
And it was framed as because
obviously he doesn't speak the

821
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,159
language and then she can't talk
and yada, yada, yada, right.

822
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,679
However, there was just an
undercurrent of don't want him,

823
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:15,239
don't don't want to sat next to
him.

824
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,080
And it was, it was awkward as
professional because obviously

825
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,800
you can't turn around and say,
oh, it's because of that,

826
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,320
because I turn into the person
I'm moaning about.

827
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,320
I'm almost assuming something
but that.

828
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,679
But you know, when you talk to
someone and you just know that

829
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,400
there's an undercurrent here of
not him just sitting next to

830
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,280
someone else.
And it's like, you know, as the

831
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,960
teacher, I made the decision for
that person to sit there either

832
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,760
for support for him or so that
I'm close to him maybe

833
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,040
supporting her as well.
And me, me changing that would

834
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,199
mean actually, although you
might think it's better, the

835
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,679
provision for your daughter
might actually get worse because

836
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:50,360
I made this decision on the
whole, as I'm going to, it's

837
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:51,360
because I can help.
Help.

838
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,760
This is an optimal situation.
And even if it does benefit your

839
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,600
daughter, it's going to
detriment someone else.

840
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:57,920
And didn't seem to care about
that.

841
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:58,880
And that's fine.
That's down to him.

842
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,800
My my point here is just simply,
I've gone off for one.

843
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,720
I'm very sorry.
I apologise.

844
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,640
My point in general is there's a
lot of problems.

845
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,720
Division doesn't help even
between people if you're just

846
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:12,120
assuming the worst of them
straight away.

847
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,040
And in that example, my brain
went to assuming the worst and

848
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,680
absolutely might not have been.
Yeah, could have been, might

849
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,920
have been, might not have been.
Can I then accuse that person of

850
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,720
being racist when there's a
chance they just weren't and

851
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:25,440
there's no actual evidence?
Not really.

852
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,680
No.
Of course you can't, not really.

853
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,000
Like I, I can't.
And that'd be wrong for me to do

854
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,000
that.
Even if there's a 10% chance

855
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,200
they were being, it's still I, I
can't just assume that and say

856
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,400
that.
And I wouldn't want to ever

857
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,920
'cause that rift because then
I've just caused the rift out of

858
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,280
nothing.
And it's more division and it's

859
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,040
more people against each other
who actually aren't really, I

860
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:46,960
don't think fundamentally
addressing the issues.

861
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,320
And it all stems back down to
the same thing you've been

862
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,440
saying there of it's this came
from there was a 10% or 9% cut

863
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,480
in the provision for children
over 10 years.

864
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,080
Nothing else really beats that
in terms of what I think.

865
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,680
Oh, God, yeah.
That probably impacted it

866
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:02,720
massively.
Oh, yeah.

867
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:05,240
But it could have been that.
Yeah, probably was that, though.

868
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,440
Probably was the 9% cut, wasn't
it, across the board.

869
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,120
Yeah, that's probably the
biggest problem.

870
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,200
That I reckon that's the reason
my TA got fired, to be honest

871
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,240
with you.
Yeah, my I reckon that was the

872
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:14,640
reason we had to make cuts and
we lost TA.

873
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,720
That's the most common one, by
the way, just looking online.

874
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,840
If you enjoy this episode, by
the way, please do follow.

875
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,000
I'm the host today, so please do
follow.

876
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:24,240
Send us a message, join our
WhatsApp community, do all that

877
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:25,760
good stuff.
We know a lot of you listen and

878
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,120
still don't leave a review, so
it'd be great if you do.

879
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,400
If you're enjoying Dylan's
rants, which is kind of what I

880
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,040
was hoping to get from this, to
be honest with you, I was

881
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,280
thinking.
This is not scripted.

882
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:38,240
Like we can tell and.
I, I, I do, I do get nervous

883
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,880
after, but not nervous, but I'm
like, God, I hope I get my point

884
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,960
across because yeah.
And I.

885
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,160
Think so.
I think your points to be really

886
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,360
clear, I think even if we have
gone off tangent, it doesn't

887
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,520
matter.
It's it's interesting

888
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:50,760
discussion.
I think it's good to get into

889
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,120
people's brain.
That's the point of this podcast

890
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,280
really.
But I guess sort of bringing it

891
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,400
back round.
Yeah, what was I saying?

892
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,760
So, so a lot of the a lot of the
cuts, the big proportion of cuts

893
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,720
have been stuffed.
Support stuff makes sense,

894
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,280
obviously, like support support
staff.

895
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,880
I looked at quite a few
different things when I was

896
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,040
looking at this like articles
and research papers and things

897
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,480
and a lot of them and quotes
from head teachers and things

898
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,320
from over the years like Schools
Week articles almost always were

899
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,080
saying the first thing that we
had to do was look for little

900
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,720
cuts, like little resource
things we could do.

901
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,320
When the cuts kept coming, kept
coming, kept coming.

902
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,320
It was support staff, support
staff, support staff until we

903
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,560
get to an absolute skeleton crew
and some some head teachers this

904
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,920
year in a school to Castle that
came out literally 2 days ago

905
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,400
were saying there is genuinely
now nothing left the cut.

906
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,960
They were like this is the one
so this is what I'm scheduled.

907
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,400
I was like is it 1?
For eight years ago, you.

908
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,480
Said that last year and the year
but they were like we have got

909
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,560
nothing left to cut.
Like we are absolutely like bare

910
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,680
bones skeleton crew now for this
school.

911
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,720
Yeah.
And I don't know even if even if

912
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,240
it's exaggeration, I think like
you said at the beginning, it's

913
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:57,960
a very, very important message
to get across there.

914
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,160
One thing I noticed just from,
you know, throughout your career

915
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,760
in general, you, you know, as
you get older as well and you

916
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,240
become, you become more senior
in your school, you, you do tend

917
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:09,120
to as well become a bit close
with the people actually running

918
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,520
the school and get to know the
maybe behind the scenes a bit

919
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,040
more.
And I noticed a shift in front

920
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,880
of my career.
And it'd be really interesting

921
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,160
to get these numbers.
I don't know if they're out

922
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,120
there or anyone knows them of
the percentage of your budget

923
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,080
that goes on staff, right?
Because because like my gut

924
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,240
instinct is, is saying that you
in order to maintain a

925
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,160
percentage, it's probably much
higher than a lot of people

926
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,520
think.
That's the first thing I'd say.

927
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,920
But I don't know these numbers,
but it's probably higher than

928
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,240
most people think in terms of
the amount of total amount of

929
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:39,840
money you spend, how much goes
on staff.

930
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,040
But when you're constantly
cutting that, it seems like it's

931
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,960
a battle to keep that number as
low as possible, right?

932
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It seems like it's a battle to

933
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,840
think, well, we can't let
staffing get to 95%.

934
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,240
That's just outrageous because
then it literally would go to

935
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:54,560
breaking points.
You wouldn't be able to afford

936
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,880
books.
You need X percent to actually

937
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,360
get actually get, you know, just
to be able to provide the

938
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,840
children.
To be above the thing where the

939
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,680
school does close.
Right, exactly that there's got

940
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:04,640
to be a line.
Exactly.

941
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,000
So the the issue I think we're
probably getting to is that

942
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,080
percentage is getting higher and
higher and higher in terms of

943
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,480
we're not getting enough money
and and teachers and what

944
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,080
support staff aren't getting the
pay they deserve.

945
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,920
That's a whole nother thing.
But in general, staffing, it

946
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,840
gets more expensive on the
budget, which means it's a

947
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,600
higher percentage, which means
you either have to cut your

948
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,360
staff.
So if you've been doing that

949
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,040
over the years and you should
try and balance it now you have

950
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,040
no more staff to cut before you
literally go before under ratio.

951
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,720
You have to look at the
remaining whatever 20%, I don't

952
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:33,240
know the numbers, again,
whatever percentage it is.

953
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:36,400
And then kids stop getting
books, but kids stop getting

954
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,640
pens.
And it's like, OK, going back to

955
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,360
discussion earlier about what
breaking point is.

956
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,280
Maybe it was exaggerating to say
breaking point, but what they

957
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,440
meant was very clear.
There will be a point where even

958
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,800
the most exaggerated version of
breaking point does become

959
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:52,680
reality.
Yeah, I agree.

960
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,800
Because it's like, I, I think of
these examples in my head of

961
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,160
like, do you know what?
The school had 10 TAS and then

962
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,680
they had to cut to 8 and they
were like, this is breaking

963
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,560
point.
We had 10 and 10 is what we need

964
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,600
to function where we are.
And they cut to 8 next year,

965
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:04,840
they cut to six and they cut to
five.

966
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,200
Then they cut to four.
Eventually they will get to a

967
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,240
point where they've been saying,
oh, breaking point every year

968
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:10,520
because it is kind of breaking
their system.

969
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,520
There will be a point where it
literally is breaking point

970
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,280
because it's like you can't
actually the the school doesn't

971
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,880
run without this minimum,
minimum percentage in these

972
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,360
different areas.
So it'd be interesting.

973
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,360
So for the listeners and and
viewers just thinking, if you

974
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,720
don't know the stat right now,
it'd be, it'd be just have a

975
00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:24,320
think.
What do?

976
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,440
What sort of percentage of the
school budget?

977
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,080
On average, obviously it
fluctuates massively per school.

978
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,360
Do you think gets spent on just
staffing costs And it's around

979
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,080
and I didn't write it down, but
I did read it earlier, Funny

980
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,360
enough on a, on an article it
was, it was around just over

981
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,560
80%.
I was, I wish I said yeah,

982
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,840
because in my head it was 80.
Percent, you said the 20%

983
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:41,680
remaining which?
Yeah.

984
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:42,400
OK.
Yeah, I was.

985
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,680
I was thinking.
It was 82.

986
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,920
The one I read earlier in the
schools week article was 82% of

987
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,520
this particular school.
So you know, it it like I said,

988
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:50,400
it will.
Flow what I've heard from

989
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,600
schools, it is between 75 and
85%.

990
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:54,880
Like like I don't think of the
numbers.

991
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,400
I've literally been.
Told our school was on the

992
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,080
higher end of that.
I think our school was in the

993
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,720
high 80s at one, yeah, mid 80s.
It was crazy because our school

994
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:03,320
had, they just had high, high
staff costs, genuinely like that

995
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,680
was just part of the strategy, I
guess.

996
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,040
But it was, it was expensive.
And I remember him telling our

997
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,280
head teacher at the time telling
us that.

998
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,360
And I was like, what?
Yeah, that's because I just

999
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,920
expected it to be like 50%.
I was like, yeah, of course

1000
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,240
there's so much more to a school
and it costs loads of money.

1001
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:17,360
And they were like, no, no, like
most of our budget just goes on

1002
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,960
literally paying you guys.
Yeah, I was like, wow, yeah, I

1003
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,320
really, really didn't know that.
So.

1004
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,280
Yeah, that's pretty interesting.
And when you think about the

1005
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,360
government's push in the next
few years, again, it's just more

1006
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,080
and more lip service where they
say things like, and, and we

1007
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,560
need more enrichment for the
kids.

1008
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,840
And, and we need to make sure
with the SEND white paper, we're

1009
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,560
going to have all these ISPs
done and we're going to have all

1010
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,760
this support in place.
Are we, are we, Like, do you

1011
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,680
think that training and and
saying the right thing is what

1012
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,040
we're missing?
Like do you think that's going

1013
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,560
to salt?
Do you honestly think £200

1014
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,600
million for training in SEND is
going to suddenly transform

1015
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,480
inclusion and what we can do for
our kids?

1016
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,640
Of course.
What a ridiculous thing to say.

1017
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,000
It's like I'm trying to think of
a different career.

1018
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,160
It's like training, training up
someone in a in a trade.

1019
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,360
They're a plumber, right?
And they don't have pipes,

1020
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,960
right.
And they're going, Joe, we'll

1021
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,040
give you some more training on
how to how to actually, those

1022
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,160
pipes are quite tricky to
integrate in this system and

1023
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:16,480
they're actually not designed
for that system.

1024
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,360
That system will never work for
them, but we're going to try and

1025
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,400
make it work anyway.
We'll give you more training to

1026
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,080
get those pipes in that system.
Yeah.

1027
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,680
Can I have the pipes please?
Can I have the equipment and the

1028
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,880
actual funding and the money to
do that and the time to

1029
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,080
implement it?
No, but I'll send you a pre

1030
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,240
recorded video of how to do it.
Don't matter.

1031
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,560
It does not matter because I
can't do.

1032
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,240
It I'm going to give you £1.50.
Thank you.

1033
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,320
I I did mean more than that
though.

1034
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:41,960
I get that.
I get that money.

1035
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:46,480
The the word money sounds good
and an amount is cool, but there

1036
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,880
is a certain amount that makes a
difference though and that's not

1037
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,280
it.
Exactly.

1038
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:51,360
Right.
Here's interesting.

1039
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,720
I'm going to flip it a little
bit then, right.

1040
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:56,120
So in the 20 twenties up until
the last five years basically.

1041
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,400
6.
It's like 6 years.

1042
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,280
All right, whatever, whatever.
Dylan.

1043
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,600
School spending per pupil has
increased.

1044
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,320
So the graph very much looks
like this, right?

1045
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,520
It went up in the 90s, like
rapid 2000s.

1046
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,280
All the spending 2010's
decimated comes down in a

1047
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,680
horrible curve, right?
And it has curved up again in

1048
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,360
the last 5-6 years.
Yeah, post COVID, they did

1049
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,480
inject cash, right?
And this the, the, so the

1050
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,520
Institute for, for Fiscal
Studies in the 2026 version of

1051
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,680
the 2021 version I was quoting
earlier basically showed that it

1052
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,200
was pretty much back to 20,
2010, 2010 levels in terms of

1053
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,120
how much we, we schools spend on
pupils.

1054
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,040
Yeah.
So per pupil, per pupil.

1055
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,240
OK.
So do you think that's, do you

1056
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:40,160
think it's fair to say from that
stat alone that we've kind of

1057
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,520
we've the damage is undone,
we've reversed it because if we

1058
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,200
are at 2010 levels in terms of
how much we spend on PRP, have

1059
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,040
we reversed?
It no, clearly not.

1060
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,720
Obviously not, because no
matter, OK, people will say

1061
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:54,320
that's restoration where you're
at, OK, And even with pay, even

1062
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:55,920
with pay, we've got restorative
pay.

1063
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,880
But cool, I'm back there.
I did teach for 10 years at a

1064
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,920
lower rate like I did.
I did literally miss out on 10s

1065
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,520
of thousands of pounds because
of the squeeze, right?

1066
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,200
And it's the same for the school
system.

1067
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,040
It's the same for the leaky
roof.

1068
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,480
It's the same for the crumbling
classroom.

1069
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,560
It's the same for the the child
who's now 12, right?

1070
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,800
OK, spending's now where it
should have been.

1071
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,960
They've still missed out on all
of that.

1072
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,720
All that because we're spending
the same per pupil that we did

1073
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,360
in 2010 in real terms now.
So ignore the fact that all of

1074
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,200
the cuts happened alongside this
is, this is what I found really

1075
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,400
interesting because this graph
very much LED you down the way

1076
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,360
of thinking, oh, it's been, it's
been restored.

1077
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:34,680
Like we're, it's OK now we're
done.

1078
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,600
But it's like no, no, no, no,
no, no, because in 2010 when we

1079
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,600
were spending, let's say it was
9000.

1080
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,600
And this is real term.
This is real term so like the

1081
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,360
numbers are a bit we.
Can ignore inflation exactly

1082
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:44,440
it's the same it's.
Real term.

1083
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,400
So it accounts for inflation.
OK, yeah.

1084
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:48,040
So let's just say we were
spending.

1085
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,600
I think it was something like
8000 something.

1086
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:50,920
So let's just, I'm just going to
round it, right.

1087
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,800
Let's just say we were spending
£9000 per pupil in 2010.

1088
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,800
We also had 15 Tasmania and
teachers were on X amount of

1089
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,280
money compared to, you know, the
economy, like they were earning

1090
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,960
a certain amount in the economy.
Cut to now it you can still say,

1091
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,520
oh wow, look, we're spending
£9000 real terms on pupils

1092
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,440
again, but we have two Tasmania
and teachers are only

1093
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,800
significantly less.
So I, I thought it was a really

1094
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,680
bad metric to actually compare
the state of education because I

1095
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,480
was like, yeah, you can say
we're spending an expat on

1096
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:20,280
pupils.
Yeah.

1097
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,560
While still declining in loads
of different areas.

1098
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,800
So where's that money going?
What money?

1099
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,320
Well, you well like so we're
schools are spending on average

1100
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,120
9 K in in 2010.
Yeah.

1101
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,640
And there are more Tasmania and
more teachers and now they're

1102
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,640
spending nine K per thing and
there are fewer teachers and

1103
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:36,920
it's all real time so it's
equivalent.

1104
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,040
Yeah, sure.
So there's there's.

1105
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,360
Surely that means the spare cash
that.

1106
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,120
That was my question.
This is where this is where my

1107
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:42,480
rabbit hole, right?
Yeah, I went down.

1108
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,760
So I was looking this, I was
looking this up even more and I

1109
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,000
ended up just reading a bunch of
articles on this again.

1110
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,800
So useful things like schools
week, by the way, and any new

1111
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,160
articles and stuff.
And in general, because they

1112
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,040
really do just get the
information, put it there on an

1113
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,040
article, and then you can just
read.

1114
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:56,880
Because just very quickly for
clarification of anyone

1115
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,280
wondering what's going on.
So we're really clear the dip we

1116
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,760
were talking about in between
2010 and now, that amount of

1117
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,480
money that just got missing and
wasn't spent is still missing

1118
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,320
and scores are therefore behind
because of that, right?

1119
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,320
So this what we're saying now is
a separate point that if

1120
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,320
literally this second we're
spending nine K real terms on a

1121
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,040
child and in 2010 we were
spending nine K real terms on a

1122
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:21,840
child, but now there's less
staff that that by definition

1123
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,520
means that less of that nine K
now is being spent on staff.

1124
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,120
So compared to 2010, where's the
extra?

1125
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,720
Cut doesn't make sense, does it?
There's a hole there, which is

1126
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:30,680
exactly what I was thinking.
So I was reading a Schools Week

1127
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,080
article, right?
I'll keep quoting them.

1128
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,200
And it was basically referencing
this graph from the Institute

1129
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,120
for Fiscal Studies that we're
just talking about the shows,

1130
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,400
oh, this lovely restorative
curve.

1131
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,360
And it was basically saying the
problem is those figures are

1132
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,080
based on inflation.
I said how?

1133
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,440
I said it's real terms that the
real terms, this is based on

1134
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,480
inflation for the economy,
right, rather than actual costs

1135
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,400
faced by schools and actual
costs faced by schools is not in

1136
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:55,600
line with the way the economy
has.

1137
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:56,560
Moved right.
Right.

1138
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,080
Things like.
So.

1139
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,640
So the real time just calculated
on something separate to.

1140
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,680
It's stupid, right?
Doesn't make sense and and this

1141
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,280
article went went, went through
and was like actually in

1142
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,960
reality, if you take into
account the actual like rising

1143
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,120
cost of staff, unfunded National
Insurance, energy prices, food

1144
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,920
pensions, SEND costs, we know
how much SEND.

1145
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,200
Has changed, that's why all of
this.

1146
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:19,640
Stuff, all of this stuff, when
you actually take into account

1147
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,720
that which is kind of kind of
exclusive to the ecosystem of a

1148
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:25,280
school, not the economy, yes,
it's not remotely, remotely

1149
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:26,560
restored.
That's not already.

1150
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,960
Restored isn't we're nowhere
near back to 2010 terms.

1151
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,520
Yeah, because if we were back to
2010 terms just to complete this

1152
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,040
whole loop, it would feel like
2010, right?

1153
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,600
That's the point.
It doesn't.

1154
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,480
Yes, so that that is exactly my
point now where we say this and

1155
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,240
this is where people outside of
the school system, maybe even in

1156
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:44,800
the government in education
terms, right, Or they run a

1157
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,000
newspaper or or you know, and
then the NEU come out and say,

1158
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,840
oh, this is ridiculous.
It's not the same.

1159
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:51,600
Teachers just say I literally
talk both.

1160
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,960
It's not the same.
The provision is literally less.

1161
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:56,720
They can all look at this graph
and go, what do you mean they

1162
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,800
spend exactly this and my graph
same, same, same, separate to

1163
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,760
the separate to the little dip
we talked about.

1164
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,480
They can literally say we're
spending the same now as 2010.

1165
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,520
But what we're actually saying
is that is obviously bollocks.

1166
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,120
Yeah, and and and it's not just
a feeling someone's actually

1167
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,080
dived into how these things
calculated and it it doesn't.

1168
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:19,120
And this is where stats are so.
Are so useful, but also, Oh my

1169
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,560
goodness me how they can be
manipulated exactly.

1170
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,600
So when I really wrap my head
around it, I was like, this

1171
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,440
makes sense because it can't be.
It can be true that in real

1172
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,040
terms, in terms of the economy,
we are now spending about the

1173
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,280
same amount, the same amount per
people in a school as we were in

1174
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,760
2010.
But the way that money is

1175
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,600
distributed through schools is
very, very different now because

1176
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,840
things cost different amounts
proportionately to when it's in

1177
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,680
2010.
So it costs more.

1178
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:45,520
More of that money goes to fewer
staff now.

1179
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,840
More of that money goes to bills
than it did.

1180
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,320
Yeah, proportionally, yeah.
In 2010, I was just going to say

1181
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,280
like if you think about energy
and I'm going off my Dome here

1182
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,360
and and people correct me not,
but I'm just going to use this

1183
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:56,440
as an example.
I'm not saying this is

1184
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,040
definitely true, but for
example, the energy cost in 2010

1185
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,920
and the energy cost now could
far outstrip what the baseline

1186
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,320
generic inflation real terms for
the economy would be.

1187
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,160
Let's say the economy is just
jumped 10%.

1188
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,400
Let's just say for example,
you're going to sake energy but

1189
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,520
or specific things to a school
that aren't economy wide, but

1190
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,200
specifically for example, maybe
you're thinking about like

1191
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,960
energy costs or paper costs.
We saw after COVID these things

1192
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,640
could have far outstripped the
general real times rise.

1193
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,120
Which means that although in
real times it's the same amount

1194
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,520
of money going in because you're
spending on specific things that

1195
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,680
cost a lot more than the real
times increase.

1196
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,600
It can look like it's the same,
but it's obviously not.

1197
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,720
Exactly that, exactly that.
So last point I want to mention

1198
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,440
on this whole thing, I just I
feel like I have to, I can't not

1199
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,680
talk about a CNDA little bit
because from what I've read, it

1200
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,840
is one of the biggest alongside
sort of staff.

1201
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,800
It increases and and things like
energy bills, right?

1202
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,600
The whole push towards
inclusivity in schools, which

1203
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,600
I'm not saying is about I'm not
even having an opinion really on

1204
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,680
this right now.
The objective thing is it is

1205
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,120
just costing schools more in
terms of SEND provision and

1206
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:00,680
councils, right?
And councils.

1207
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,680
Exactly right.
So something I mentioned

1208
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,800
earlier, I'm going to actually
quote properly now, which was a

1209
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:06,840
head teacher called David
Rogers.

1210
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,120
He was on it again in a
different schools.

1211
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,560
We got you can tell I went
through a lot of schools and

1212
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,760
stuff.
Sponsored by schools.

1213
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,240
I know, I know.
Right, but they are genuinely no

1214
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:15,160
affiliation, but they're no
affiliation, not sponsored.

1215
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:16,960
And I happily always call them
out for good stuff because they

1216
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,960
genuinely release great reports
on articles.

1217
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,000
So this head teacher in in the
in the article literally quoted,

1218
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,720
we've finally reached the stage
where there's nothing left to

1219
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:26,280
cut and we're now in a budget
deficit.

1220
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:27,880
So the first time that school
actually got to a budget

1221
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,240
deficit, he was like, we keep
making cuts to make sure we're

1222
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:32,120
not in a deficit and now there's
just nothing left to cut and we

1223
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,280
just have to go into it was like
we don't even know what to do

1224
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:35,160
anymore.
There's nothing left.

1225
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,560
And, and his school was, he was,
you know, he was really, really

1226
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,400
proud to be extremely inclusive.
Like that was a driving force

1227
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,280
for him as a person.
And his school is of course, and

1228
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:47,880
that's like the essence of
community.

1229
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,280
Of course, we're inclusive for
the people that live here.

1230
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,440
We're a school.
You live down the road, you come

1231
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,480
to this school.
Exactly right.

1232
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,520
And so a couple of things, you
know, to just to sort of point

1233
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:57,840
to as well in terms of this
conversation.

1234
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,360
It is usually varied depending
on the community or any.

1235
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,960
This report was showing that
some schools have like tiny

1236
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,800
proportions of of peoples of
SEND in their school and other

1237
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,240
schools have huge proportions,
right.

1238
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,560
And his overall point was even
though it is supposed to be

1239
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,760
proportionate because it's
attached with funding, with

1240
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,680
EHCPS, for example, it comes
with funding.

1241
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,080
Yeah, well, not everyone gets
EHCP.

1242
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:19,960
Not everyone gets EHCP.
That's absolutely right.

1243
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,440
And that's part of the reason.
And also the EHCP, it's not a

1244
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,240
perfect system.
Now, obviously going to be some

1245
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,400
children who don't have the
exact perfect amount of funding

1246
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:27,720
for what they are.
Some children get less and this

1247
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:29,160
is more and.
The schools still have to fund a

1248
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,200
certain amount before they get
anything.

1249
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,000
There's a lot, there's a lot of
qualifying factors for them that

1250
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,680
cost money, right?
And and this data showed that

1251
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,120
even though we have these
systems in place to hopefully

1252
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:44,320
support schools with higher SEND
need, it doesn't actually work

1253
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:45,480
out.
And it was saying that the, the

1254
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:50,680
basically the more SEND in a
school, the more likely it is

1255
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,520
that school goes into sort of
budget deficit and they can't

1256
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:53,040
actually.
Afford it?

1257
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:54,320
Yeah, that makes.
Sense it just it just makes

1258
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,440
sense even though the system
then the government will say no,

1259
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,480
but no, because we it's all
fully funded, it's all funded

1260
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,960
Ahps OK, it is funded and there
is a good nod towards that and

1261
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,760
it does make a significant
impact genuinely.

1262
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:04,320
It makes you go into a deficit
less.

1263
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:06,800
I'm just a bit into a
definition.

1264
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,960
Yeah, right, exactly right.
That's basically it.

1265
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,560
So that I just thought that was
really interesting.

1266
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,120
Yeah.
So think about the new, the new

1267
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,000
Sen changes.
It was obviously quite the white

1268
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,040
paper that came out recently.
Yeah.

1269
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,560
The overall point here that made
me think and I want you to talk

1270
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,600
about it a bit more is that the
the changes have to come with

1271
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,960
funding, adequate funding
because it's already it's

1272
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,960
already not quite working.
And if we're going to move more

1273
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,720
towards.
OK, look what will reduce that

1274
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:37,320
pressure by having fewer EHCP.
That's not the yeah, that's not

1275
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,120
the thing, that's one.
That's not the thing that's

1276
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,320
rising most goal this.
Is the narrative, yeah, for

1277
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,440
fewer EHCP because we can see
there's a bit of a struggle

1278
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,160
there and competition there and
even schools sometimes

1279
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:46,600
struggling to fund it as well.
Oh, my God.

1280
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,280
And we're just going to have
ISPs with no funding instead,

1281
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,440
with no, no funding unless it's
almost complex case.

1282
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,640
And we know it's going to be a
little bit more or a little bit

1283
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,880
more grit from the teachers to
change, but it is going to be

1284
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:56,960
better.
Yeah.

1285
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,040
What do you think about that?
It's just, it's just not like I

1286
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:01,960
think what's being forgotten.
We've said a lot about this in

1287
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,880
general and I even mentioned a
little bit about this, but the

1288
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,600
thing that's been forgotten, I
think, is that how it currently

1289
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,400
is right now is not working.
How it currently is right now

1290
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,200
is, is broken, right?
And I think inclusion is

1291
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,880
fantastic and something we
should strive for.

1292
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,480
And you and I can probably both
think of literally 10s of

1293
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:26,640
children in just the last few
years who have SEND, who have

1294
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:29,840
needs that have to be met.
And a lot of them can, it could

1295
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,600
be small adjustments that means
they thrive in the classroom.

1296
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:34,640
They literally thrive in the
classroom.

1297
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,560
And I can think of loads of kids
as really benefited from little

1298
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,640
things we can do.
And that's where training can

1299
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,360
come in and be really genuinely
helpful when someone come across

1300
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,720
and say, do you know what,
actually, if you're seeing this,

1301
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:46,960
you can just do that.
It's a small little tweak.

1302
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,240
And it means the world for this
kid who can now stay with their

1303
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,440
friends in, in, in the in the
classroom they've always been

1304
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,760
in, rather than maybe seeing a a
complex need of thinking you

1305
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,360
need to not be in mainstream.
Yeah.

1306
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,240
So coming at it from that angle,
I understand the push for

1307
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:03,160
inclusivity, right?
But it is ideologically driven

1308
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,240
to say that the aim for everyone
should be mainstream.

1309
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,240
Because I can also think of a
lot of children who absolutely

1310
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:11,320
needed to be in a different
setting and mainstream scope was

1311
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,080
not for them.
And it wasn't because of a lack

1312
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,120
of training.
Maybe potentially it was because

1313
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,440
of a lack of funding.
And with actual time and money,

1314
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,560
maybe we could have made changes
to mainstream to allow more

1315
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,480
children for that to be the
setting for them, right?

1316
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,880
But it seems like what's
actually going to happen is the

1317
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:32,200
time and the funding won't be
adequate, but the expectation

1318
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:36,080
will be that we're getting
children into mainstream who

1319
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,360
need that time and funding to
make it suitable for them.

1320
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,200
It won't make mainstream
suitable for them, but they'll

1321
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,440
be shoehorned into this system
that doesn't work for.

1322
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,400
Them exactly that all all of the
training for staff and ISPs in

1323
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,600
the world is not going to change
the fact that that child simply

1324
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,040
needs something that is attached
to money.

1325
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,520
Genuinely, they need it and
without it there's other things

1326
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:56,360
are great, but you just simply
can't achieve that.

1327
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,440
Yeah, this very quickly.
Sorry.

1328
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,360
This is where it's frustrating
when you feel like you say

1329
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,640
something and the reaction can
be, well, don't you want

1330
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,600
training?
Isn't training good?

1331
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:07,960
Come on, we're putting 4 billion
in.

1332
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:09,160
Should we?
Someone commented on the

1333
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:10,400
railway.
They said should we just do

1334
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,480
nothing?
Then I was like, do you think, I

1335
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,840
think that do you think I think
that we should just do nothing

1336
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,120
then and and and then something
means you can't suggest that

1337
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:20,680
it's not going to work for some
reason.

1338
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,080
I think there's a huge culture
sometimes in education and this

1339
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:26,040
goes across, whether it's
government down or literally in

1340
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,360
schools, which is we have this
ideologically driven force that

1341
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,280
we want to go for and it sounds
great.

1342
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,360
And on paper it's fantastic.
The literal people and teachers

1343
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,480
and educators in the classroom
say, don't think that'll work.

1344
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,960
And they're brushed aside as
like, you don't understand it

1345
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,160
was going to work.
Of course, that'd be my own, not

1346
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:44,520
just.
The teacher doing the job, What

1347
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:45,480
do you know?
Right.

1348
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,120
And how often we've gone along
with something and then been

1349
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,880
like 2 years down the line.
Oh, do you know what We were

1350
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,080
right.
So when people in the profession

1351
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,000
are saying that this current
plan will not work because of

1352
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,760
XYZ, right, the likelihood is
that they're probably correct.

1353
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,080
Yeah, definitely.
And and all the training in the

1354
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,720
world and a little bit of money
that we got, which is obviously

1355
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:07,560
4 billion sounds like a lot.
But in the grand scheme of

1356
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,080
things, it's not going to
scratch the surface to make

1357
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,800
mainstream really suitable for
children.

1358
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,680
And there's there's two groups
of children with complex SEND

1359
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,960
needs, right.
Even in that complex bracket

1360
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,720
we've got now, some of them
absolutely should be their

1361
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:22,840
mainstream school.
And there are small things we

1362
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,160
can do and big things we can do.
Small adjustments that allow

1363
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,800
them to to to be themselves and
maybe regulate themselves in the

1364
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,120
classroom.
Small things they're up to big

1365
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:33,920
things like A1 size fits all
curriculum.

1366
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:35,640
The curriculum is not beneficial
for them.

1367
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,400
Maybe they just do what they can
do and actually still doing that

1368
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:39,640
in mainstream is good for them,
right?

1369
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:41,400
Yep.
Huge swathe of things we can do

1370
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,400
in mainstream to make it more
inclusive for them, even with

1371
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,400
complex needs.
Maybe a one to one TA even for

1372
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:47,960
some examples for health, health
reasons.

1373
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,360
Loads we can do to make
mainstream work for them.

1374
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:52,840
That comes with money and time
needed.

1375
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,200
Not just training.
Not just training has to come

1376
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:56,960
with money and time.
Else it wouldn't be complex.

1377
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,240
Yeah, it's it's only complex
because it's tricky by

1378
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:01,480
definition.
Yeah, like everyone else falls

1379
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,760
in the other brackets.
So in the most complex needs, we

1380
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,280
need that real targeted quality
funding if we want to have their

1381
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,480
own mainstream, which we should
do because those children can

1382
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,920
be, there's another group in
that complex who in that complex

1383
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,880
bracket who genuinely mainstream
is not the setting for them.

1384
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,560
And as long as we continue to
accept that that's the case, and

1385
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,240
we fund specialist provisions
for them and settings for them

1386
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,080
that are more adept to their
needs and have much smaller

1387
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:29,040
class sizes or whatever it might
be to fit their needs, we can't

1388
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,680
pretend they can just go
mainstream because of this. 100%

1389
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,520
it won't happen.
It will break and children will

1390
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,840
get less exactly that.
And we don't want that.

1391
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,720
One, we've seen it already.
Like you said, I have seen with

1392
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,360
my own eyes in schools I have
worked in children who have a

1393
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,600
bar of need that just simply
cannot be met.

1394
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,160
Even with genuine, even with
loads of funding, in a

1395
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,080
mainstream setting you could
give £1,000,000, right?

1396
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,320
And in that mainstream setting
it it just would not be better

1397
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,520
than a specialist.
Setting yeah, 100% it like that.

1398
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,040
That's what I'm saying.
Could they cope?

1399
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:05,400
Maybe.
Would it be best?

1400
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,640
No, they need that specialist
setting.

1401
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,520
And and just think I just keep
thinking about this article.

1402
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,000
You know, we've talked about
that head teachers, there's a

1403
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:12,720
couple of head teachers in this
article just talk about their

1404
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,040
scores and talk about
inclusivity.

1405
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,760
And they were just saying that
they're at the point there with,

1406
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,480
with some complex needs.
It might be that it requires 3

1407
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,280
staff members to hoist a pupil
from one position to another.

1408
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,760
And you literally like, you
can't do that without, without

1409
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,080
the staff members.
He was like, I can't, I

1410
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,800
literally can't cut anymore.
He was like, because the people,

1411
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,480
I, I wouldn't even be able to
suit their needs.

1412
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,840
They wouldn't be able to move
around the school sites.

1413
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,000
They couldn't, they just simply
couldn't be in this school

1414
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,400
anymore about these members of
staff.

1415
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:42,760
And I'm at the point where I
have to cut them or in a budget

1416
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:44,240
deficit.
Yeah, this is mainstream.

1417
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,320
Oh my.
Do you we are on the ground

1418
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:49,960
telling you that this is what
weapons were not making this up

1419
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,440
and he wants inclusive.
It's not like.

1420
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:52,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He.

1421
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:54,920
Could quite easily go OK cool,
let's let's get these people out

1422
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:56,760
of our school then.
Yeah, I'd argue with that.

1423
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:00,080
That lands in the complex needs
that still you can make work in

1424
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,680
a mainstream setting because
it's about transport, but you

1425
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,560
have to fund.
It with the money.

1426
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,720
It's it is different too.
And I'm not saying, oh, you're

1427
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:09,960
in a complex need bracket, go to
a special special needs school.

1428
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,520
No, no.
I've taught loads of children

1429
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:16,520
with complex SEND who thrived in
the classroom because we could

1430
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,400
make those adjustments.
And I've seen unfortunately it's

1431
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,600
strip away and strip away and it
is the most vulnerable kids who

1432
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,120
end up missing out.
Yeah, exactly.

1433
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:25,680
And it's saddening and we don't
want that.

1434
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,680
Yeah, no, So it's, yeah, I have
nothing more to say on that

1435
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:30,720
really.
But I think there's a lot,

1436
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:31,720
there's a lot to consider.
It's.

1437
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:33,600
Been a hefty episode it has
scripted.

1438
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:35,840
On let's let's get your thoughts
on it then.

1439
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,480
So firstly, let's do an over
let's we do like a summary.

1440
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:41,600
Let's get you a summary thoughts
on this you'll make you're.

1441
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:42,800
You're leading this.
We're over an hour.

1442
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,080
Yeah, I'm just, I'm just
thinking, you know, because we

1443
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,520
spoke a lot.
So maybe then going right back

1444
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,920
to the original thing, if this
whole point was, you know, we've

1445
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,000
been saying schools are going to
collapse for the last 15 years

1446
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,640
and they're yet to collapse.
Maybe it's not about schools

1447
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,080
collapsing imminently.
Maybe it's.

1448
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,720
Maybe that's not our bar.
Maybe it's about the definition

1449
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,920
of a well funded school that's
changed from I think that's what

1450
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:02,600
it is, you know?
We're saying we're at breaking

1451
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,160
point because this current
system is well funded where it

1452
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:06,720
is right now.
If we take it away, kids are

1453
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,720
going, some kids are going to
lose out and we think that's

1454
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:09,320
breaking.
Point.

1455
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,320
The system will break and we'll
need a new one, right?

1456
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:12,760
Exactly.
And then that system will break

1457
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:13,960
and we'll need a new one.
Exactly.

1458
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,920
Is it breaking point each time?
Yeah, probably.

1459
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:17,360
Probably.
We want to define it that way.

1460
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,880
If you don't like that, let's
just say the provision for

1461
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,920
children is getting worse, Yeah.
Someone online gave the good

1462
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:24,720
analogy that I'm sure you've
heard many times in your life

1463
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,160
and most people will have done
about the the frog in a boiling

1464
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,040
pot, boiling water, they're
obviously going to scramble and

1465
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:31,400
jump out because it's boiling
water.

1466
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,560
If you heat it up over time,
it's not going to notice like a

1467
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,000
hot tub, hot tub, right?
And that's how it feels like if

1468
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,520
you, if we, if we went from 2010
to 2020 in one year, it would

1469
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,280
have been breaking point.
Honestly, schools would have

1470
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:44,640
just collapsed.
They wouldn't have had to cope

1471
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,120
with the amount of change to
happen because it was such a

1472
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,320
significant decline.
Yeah, that frog in a water bowl,

1473
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,320
Yeah, that's slow only. 10 years
and we sort of managed it.

1474
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:56,440
So yeah, I think take it with a
pinch of salt, the idea of we're

1475
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,120
at breaking point all the time,
but also don't completely

1476
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,880
undermine what that actually
means like because, because we

1477
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,240
are whether it's called breaking
point or something else, your

1478
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,200
semantics.
Yeah, it is a decline though.

1479
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:08,440
Your problems with the
definition, not of what's

1480
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,400
actually happening.
OK, cool, we'll get rid of that.

1481
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,320
And if you don't like the name
breaking point or you don't like

1482
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,040
the word additional in the hours
of each so you don't like the

1483
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:15,720
semantics of a thing, OK, I'll
go scribble that back.

1484
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,040
This is what's happening.
Are you OK with it?

1485
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,400
If the answer is yes, let's
discuss why I think you're wrong

1486
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,600
and you think I'm wrong and have
a discussion about it.

1487
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,880
If the answer's no, then you're
letting the semantics of someone

1488
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,760
who maybe is in a different
position of you who knows more

1489
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:31,720
get in the way of understanding
what they're trying to say.

1490
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,200
You hear the leader of the NEU
say schools are a breaking

1491
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,120
point, and your first thought
is, well, I don't think they

1492
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,400
are, and you've never been in a
school in your life.

1493
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:42,360
Let me tell you that you're
probably off the mark and what I

1494
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,440
said earlier is still true.
I think the NEU should

1495
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,280
exaggerate and it should be part
of their role, and therefore you

1496
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:49,760
should take sometimes the things
the unions say with a pinch of

1497
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,200
salt.
If they're doing their job

1498
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:53,600
properly, they will go to a more
extreme angle.

1499
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:57,960
Fine, but let listen then and
have a discussion and do your

1500
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:00,040
own research and talk to people
on the ground.

1501
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,760
Find out more and join our
WhatsApp community to discuss

1502
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:06,080
with us exactly what you think
about this topic.

1503
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:08,880
Do you think we've exaggerated?
Do you think I'm we?

1504
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,120
Exaggerate all the time.
We exaggerate all the time.

1505
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,200
You don't grow social media
follower without a bit of bait.

1506
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,880
Yeah, 100 percent, 100%.
But it's a good topic and I, I

1507
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:18,560
want to talk about it more.
Like you said at the beginning,

1508
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:20,960
I'm sure there's there'll be
some perspectives or things or

1509
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,440
stats you don't necessarily
aren't Privy to and.

1510
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:25,360
I think there are.
Maybe not, because it's done

1511
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,080
obviously, and someone might
come into inside WhatsApp

1512
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,080
community and I start a
discussion about that and it'll

1513
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:31,440
be fascinating.
So if they say I'm wrong, I'll

1514
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,040
kick them.
That's great.

1515
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:34,800
I'll let you in.
Admin power.

1516
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:35,360
Yeah.
Bye, Bye.

1517
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:35,640
Bye.
Bye.

1518
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:37,200
Bye.
I'm just making an echo chamber.

1519
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:38,640
It's all gone to his head.
This is why I had to do an

1520
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:40,160
episode today where he had no
power.

1521
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,600
I wonder if people think this is
like genuinely five times worse

1522
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,520
than normal or as good or
better.

1523
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,160
Again, let us know.
Maybe we'll do a poll.

1524
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:49,840
Let's do a poll.
Was it alright dude?

1525
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:51,400
Did you?
Never do this again you.

1526
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,080
Enjoy Dylan kind of just going
off on one on many tangents in

1527
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:56,720
this episode, or would you like
it a bit more?

1528
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,880
Scripted, do you think?
I don't think you'd cope the

1529
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,880
other way around.
Nah, it depends what the topic

1530
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:03,240
is.
No, not as genuinely, not even

1531
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,160
as a bad thing, just as your
personality of not you want to

1532
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:07,320
know.
You know what, in all honesty,

1533
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:08,880
it really does just depend what
it is.

1534
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,720
There are there are some things
where I where I just feel like,

1535
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:11,680
oh, I need to be more cleared
up.

1536
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:12,920
I need to know kind of where we
go next.

1537
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,080
I revel other things.
I revel in ignorance,

1538
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:17,520
misinformation.
Call me Mr Information.

1539
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:22,440
Should we give it a go right in,
in within the next month at some

1540
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,680
point, if an episode comes out
where where I'm not, I don't

1541
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:27,320
know.
I'm not Privy to the

1542
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:28,960
conversation, you know, I give
it a go if it doesn't.

1543
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:29,880
That's every.
Week.

1544
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:32,920
Hilarious.
If it doesn't come out, you know

1545
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:34,800
that we tried it and I hated it
and we didn't release it.

1546
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,880
That's it, follow us.
Share of a friend.

1547
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,680
Do all that good stuff please.
It helps them massively rate it.

1548
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,600
All that good stuff.
If you got this far, you must

1549
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,440
have well maybe not enjoyed it
but been engaged by it.

1550
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:49,920
Must be one way or the other.
Engaged enough to like click on

1551
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,720
the just find, find the button
where you can click on the rate

1552
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,160
and five stars.
A lot of people don't and

1553
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:56,280
sometimes there's a couple of
clicks.

1554
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,360
Some people listen for mums and
haven't done it, which might be

1555
01:03:58,360 --> 01:03:59,520
you.
Do it.

1556
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:00,320
See you next time.
See you.