Ep 144: Extra PPA, Wellbeing Days & Supportive Leaders: AMAZING Policies Every School Needs!!

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach

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Sleep Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
And this week we heard the

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calls, we heard the cries.
Oh, teach, sleep, repeat.

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Always So negative Dick red
flags.

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We're not.
But either way, we're going to

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do this whole episode now about
green flags, positivity, good

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things that happen in schools up
and down the country and things

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that you can take to your
leaders and say why you're not

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doing this.
Are you ready?

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Let's do it.
We've done so many episodes in

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the past talking about toxic
practises, red flags, all that

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good stuff that people need to
hear.

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And I will constantly defend us
and why we do it right.

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We're doing it for a reason.
It's not just because we like

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having a moan.
Sometimes it's cathartic,

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sometimes it's nice, but it's
also so people out there can see

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and understand that maybe
they're not alone or maybe

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something is wrong when they
were worried about are they

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being taken advantage of.
So I think it's vital and we've

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had a lot of people who will
maybe see these things online

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and comment like these guys.
So bloody negative all the time.

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Number one, we can't control
what the algorithm pushes out

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there.
Yeah #2 if the algorithm is

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pushing out there, it's because
lots of people want to see it

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and you might not want to, and
that's fine.

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Scroll on.
However, I do also think that

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it's important when we do our
long form stuff like podcasts,

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we always talk about solutions.
We always talk about ideas as to

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what can be done.
Instead, we always talk about

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why we think it's bad.
So this week we thought we'd do

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something explicitly about green
flags.

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Absolutely.
So Hayden, can you explain what

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we're going to go through and
why is it important to also?

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Talk about this.
Yeah, sure.

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So green flags opposite,
obviously our red flags and our

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red roundabouts.
Go back and listen to that

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episode.
I've got green roundabouts.

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We can have that.
No, this is we'll move on with

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the roundabout thing.
Green flags, basically just

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really positive things that
happen in school, stuff that we

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can celebrate and we should call
out and say, hey, look, this

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school is doing this because by
the same logic, we can still

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compare.
We can say if we're in a school

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that we've, maybe you think it's
quite neutral.

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You might think, oh, this is as
good as it gets.

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Maybe it's not.
It'll tell you what, here's some

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of these things that people have
written in for our lovely

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WhatsApp community.
There are some incredible

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practises out there and we
should say, hey, this is really

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good.
And then also we can discuss it

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and be like 1.
Is this realistic?

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Is this just one of those things
where this school manages to do

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this because of XYZ and actually
it's really hard to replicate

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this?
Or is it something where we go,

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hang on a minute, why isn't
everyone doing this?

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Or why isn't everyone doing a
mixture of these things?

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So in this episode, we're going
to really just big up the great

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practises and the amazing
leaders out there and the

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amazing school staff in general
who do wonderful things for

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their staff and their children
and just be like, yeah, Pat on

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the back.
Let's do more of this, shall we?

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And if we possibly can, we'll
twist it, talk about toxic

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things and say yeah, because.
It doesn't do this red black

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thing.
Yeah, because the algorithm

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needs to be fed.
And then that will go viral.

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Just have it.
Aptly that.

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So I wanted to start off with
what I thought to me was the

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thing that jumped out the most
and it was having a Lou policy.

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No, not going to the toilet when
you want, although that be great

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as well.
That's brief flag Lou as in time

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off that you have earned.
Sure.

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So I'm gonna read this what
someone from WhatsApp community

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as you said you can join down
below if you wanna get involved

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with this has put in as what
they have.

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We have a lieu policy.
We can earn time in lieu from

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doing clubs, events, brackets,
yes even discos and residential

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trips.
It has allowed me to take off my

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son's birthday every year, my
birthday weddings, times where I

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have childcare issues due to his
inset days, etcetera and days

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just because.
I even managed to take a day off

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before 1/2 term holiday so I
could go away a day earlier for

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my honeymoon, saving me hundreds
of pounds in flight costs.

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We can earn as many hours as
we'd like in the year.

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So last year I had four days in
quotes off.

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We'll explain why that's not
actually off later and still had

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more time in the bank.
It means that staff are more

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willing to want to give extra
time knowing they can take it

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for things that come up without
worrying it might be unpaid.

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This has been particularly
helpful when my son was poorly

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and I was over my allocated
allowance for dependence days.

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Yes, it's a logistical nightmare
sometimes, and it does have its

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drawbacks.
But SLT realise that this is a

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small price to pay for having
staff who are willing to

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volunteer for experiences that
the children in our area are so

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desperately in need of.
And to have staff who are not

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being so terrified because their
best friend booked their holiday

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on a random Wednesday, having to
walk into the heads office

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begging and pleading for the day
off and ending up feeling guilty

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for doing so.
That should be the norm.

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And it's wild how that sounds
wild.

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Do you know what I mean?
It's crazy.

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Sounds amazing.
That sounds.

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I'm like, oh, wow, that's
madness.

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That's so far at the other end
of the spectrum.

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How can anyone do that?
Yeah, that's called normal.

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That's called normality.
You what?

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You are paid for the time you
work.

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And if your shift changes, you
don't then do the original shift

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as well for free.
Like, do you know what I mean?

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Like if you're now doing a club
or you're going to do this extra

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experience with the children and
it takes up an evening or even a

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whole night or a couple of days
for whatever you're not then

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still expected to do the other
shift to like.

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And it's just like, I hate the
idea that the base is I.

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Love how you've I love how
you've listened to this and it's

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great into toxic.
I hate how schools don't do

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this.
Let's talk about how good this

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is.
Come.

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On I will, I will, I will, but
I'm just this is amazing because

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it's actually looking at what
staff do, whether you're a

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teacher, TA, whatever, and
saying those hours count right

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and they matter and you're paid
for them.

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And if we are not paid for those
hours directly, we'll take other

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hours that you are normally paid
for and we'll swap it so you can

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affect you are.
Push, Can I push a bit on this?

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Because I think you're right to
an extent and wrong in a way.

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And the only reason I think
you're wrong in a way is because

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I want people to understand this
because I don't want them to

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jump on what you're saying and
be like, yeah, I see bloody

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teachers not going above and
beyond.

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No, no, no, no.
This is, you're talking

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specifically here.
And this policy is really good

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because it is explicitly about
things outside of the job role.

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There are still things within
the job role that this school

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will expect their teachers to do
planning of lessons, of course,

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marking of lessons, still
things, maybe even that seep

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outside of directed time.
We're not saying anytime ever

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you do above and beyond your
1265 hours is going to be having

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to be time in lieu.
No, these teachers obviously

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still have to plan lessons.
They still have to do marking.

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But when it goes past what's
reasonable instead of SLT just

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saying, well, I'm just going to
say it's reasonable.

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What clearly this leadership
team is saying is, well, it's

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not.
I'm asking you to do much more

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here.
I'm asking you to directing you

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to do a club or even
volunteering to do extra for our

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children.
I'm going to reward you for

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that.
Not even.

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It's not even a reward really.
It's just base zero.

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Yeah.
And that's what I guess what

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you're coming at, is it when
you're saying this should be

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normal?
I think that's a really good

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clarification because it's like,
yeah, there is still above and

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beyond.
You're still doing extra things

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outside.
You said outside directed time.

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It's almost like the score
saying, right, you've got your

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baseline actual directed time,
you've got all the extra stuff

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you're doing outside of that.
Thank you, appreciate that.

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There's there's another layer of
above and beyond the above and

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beyond.
Is that OK?

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This is, we cannot justify this
is reasonable anymore.

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So I think, I think it's a
massive green flag and big props

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to this school for actually
recognising something that I

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think we all know is that we all
know it.

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Every school leader knows
secretly that when they're doing

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these above and beyond, above
and beyond things, they're not,

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you can't really justify them as
in the reasonable part of the

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contract.
We all know it's more but for

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this school to actually say no,
we're going to put a policy in

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place.
Not even just like I think

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schools we've worked in have
like not not necessarily a

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policy, but we get, we get
Ludais for certain things where

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our leaders are clearly thinking
about these things, but they

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haven't kind of put it down
into, into a policy and like

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really thought about it for the
whole, Oh yeah, I think that is

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a huge green flag, massive win.
I would love to work in a school

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that does that.
The fact that they do that makes

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me think that's probably quite a
nice place to work in.

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Because I feel like you wouldn't
do that unless you're genuinely

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quite a good person.
You know how on the flip side,

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when there's something that's
horribly, horribly toxic, you

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think if they're doing that
thing, it's probably toxic in 12

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other ways?
Same way with this.

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This is the green flag.
It's probably quite a nice place

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to work.
If you worked in this school,

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how much more likely would you
be like running a club?

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How much more likely would it be
that you were doing that?

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I don't want to Stephanie do it
because I think clubs are great

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for kids.
Yeah, genuinely.

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So what?
What essentially is what you're

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saying that that the only reason
you don't necessarily are

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volunteering right now to the
club is because you just

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personally think you're not
compensated for it.

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And because there'll be a lot of
people online, classic people

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who are waiting to have a go at
teachers in general.

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And I've seen it before and
stuff we've said before when we

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say residential should you
should get time back, etcetera,

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where people will be like scout
leaders do it for free, they

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volunteer.
Why do you care about you should

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be just part of your job when
you become a teacher, you should

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know that this is something
that's going to happen.

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What would you be saying to
those people who are like, well,

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it's such a shame, isn't it,
that you're only going to be

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doing these things that you
literally say a helper for the

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kids.
If you're getting this time

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back, why does that mean you do
it?

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Why don't you just do it anyway?
Look, I think it's really

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complex in all honesty, like
even just back to your very

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first question, you were about
to say, which is do you, were

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you not doing them before
because you're not compensated

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for it?
The answer is mostly yes.

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It's a principle.
There is a line in everyone's

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life, a place or personal line,
right where there was a point in

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my career where doing the club
was a very, very small, small

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sacrifice into my personal life.
And I'd do it because I just

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thought it was nice and I'd take
the small hit.

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And there's a time like now
where doing the club, pushing my

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hour, pushing my hour by day,
pushing my day back by an hour

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is a much bigger sacrifice
because my child goes to bed at

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like half six, right?
And that goes from me seeing her

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for an hour and a half to half
an hour, right?

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It's a huge sacrifice at that
point.

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So at that point, I'm going to
say, yeah, I'm sticking to my

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principal and I'm not going to
do it.

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But if you do a club and then
every now and then you only get

227
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:09,960
half an hour with your child
instead of an hour and a half.

228
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,360
But on their birthday, you put
the day off and spend it with

229
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:12,960
them.
That's what I mean.

230
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,520
That's the payoff.
Of course.

231
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,560
Of course that's going to affect
what I do.

232
00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,600
And in that situation, guess
what?

233
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,080
The kids get the club and my
child gets her dad for the day.

234
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:23,240
Yeah.
For, for a nice special day.

235
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,320
And there's still a middle
ground there where I might weigh

236
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:26,360
it up and think, do you know
what?

237
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,480
Even though that's a lovely
option, it's I still just want

238
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,120
to see my kid for the extra time
on the on the on the the weekly

239
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,080
basis.
But it might not be at least

240
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,840
open at that.
Point I might actually consider

241
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,040
it where your child's birthday
is at the weekend and you think,

242
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,160
you know what, I'm going to stay
off anyway, it's fine.

243
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,600
But there might be a year where
you know, your best mate's

244
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,360
getting married somewhere and
maybe it's abroad.

245
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,120
Yeah, God, do you know what?
I just need Wednesday, Thursday,

246
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,680
Friday off.
So I am going to occur this time

247
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,000
because I know there's a policy
where my time is respected and

248
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,200
I'm paid back.
One last thing I say about this

249
00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,640
one, because I think this is
unbelievable.

250
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:56,960
I mean, this is fantastic, I
really do.

251
00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,280
And I think it's something every
school should strive to do.

252
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,200
But again, you will get those
people who say we can't do that.

253
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,320
There might be some logistical
reasons and this person even

254
00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:06,880
nods to the fact it's a
logistical nightmare.

255
00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:11,000
But it what would be your advice
to schools who are just pushing

256
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,040
back and saying we can't do
this?

257
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,240
And even maybe someone who says
OK, but then the kids don't get

258
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,800
you as a teacher for the day
that's worse for the kids who's

259
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,440
covering it.
Is it a teaching assistant

260
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,200
covering it for no money
whatsoever?

261
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:22,840
That's bad for the teaching
assistant.

262
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,480
We're just shifting what it's
good for and more more in more

263
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,960
into the teachers arena if it's
good for them.

264
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,080
But by doing that we are maybe
shifting it as it's bad for SLT,

265
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,360
it's bad for the assistants who
are covering, it's bad for the

266
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:35,360
kids who don't get their
teachers.

267
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,320
Like, you know what?
I'd rather have a teacher who's

268
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,120
happy for 99% of the days and
they missed 1% because they've

269
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,640
got this thing and then a
teacher who's miserable for the

270
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,160
entire time because they're fed
up of the system and fed up of

271
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,000
the job they're working.
Therefore, by definition, not

272
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,800
doing a good job because they
hate being in the workplace.

273
00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,880
There's, I think there's a lot
of excuses.

274
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,280
There's some things I think are
like legitimate counter

275
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,600
arguments and stuff.
Whereas, Oh yeah, we should

276
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:54,840
consider this.
And some things are, I'm just

277
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,840
like, it's just that you've just
pulled an excuse out of your

278
00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,280
hat.
You've pulled a hypothetical

279
00:10:58,280 --> 00:10:59,640
situation and been like, what
about this?

280
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,400
And I'm and and I don't know,
some of those ones, I just

281
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:03,680
sometimes I don't want to
entertain them.

282
00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,240
I just think, Nah, it's just a
rubbish excuse.

283
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:06,320
What do you mean?
Do you know what?

284
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,400
OK.
I'm teacher A, your teacher B.

285
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:09,920
Teacher B was ill for two weeks
this year.

286
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,120
Are you going to go up with them
now and start having a go at

287
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:13,840
them because how much worse it
was with their class not being

288
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:14,440
in?
Of course you're not.

289
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:15,720
They were I'll.
They couldn't control it.

290
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,640
Let's just pretend that one day
off I had I was ill.

291
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,040
And then you'll shut up about it
because it doesn't really mean

292
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,040
anything.
Like you don't really think that

293
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,040
You're just trying to think of
an excuse to make me go.

294
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:25,680
Oh, yeah, that is bad.
No, it's not.

295
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,840
It's not.
It's just as bad as someone

296
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,480
being I'll, which we all agree
is a part of life.

297
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,080
Sometimes people are ill and not
in work.

298
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:32,720
OK, cool.
I under Luda.

299
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,400
I did your I did your kid a club
for a year, right then I had a

300
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,960
day off would Yeah, OK.
Yeah, there's benefits for other

301
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:39,640
people as well.
There's.

302
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,680
So much more to it is everything
is so complex and it's never

303
00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:45,720
down to like black and white
like A or B Then oh now the kids

304
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,280
don't get you for a day that is
equal that equals bad.

305
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:49,880
So you shouldn't do it.
OK.

306
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,360
I always think to the teaching
assistant point now, which is

307
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,960
like, OK, well who's covering?
Is it a teaching assistant who's

308
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,040
being exploited like we said
millions of times before, where

309
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,760
they're doing the job of
teaching the class and and being

310
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,360
paid barely anything different
for it and it's just a job where

311
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,760
you should get paid a bit more.
My push back to that always is

312
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,600
that it doesn't have to be done
in a bad way.

313
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,920
Like for example, sometimes when
when teaching assistants are

314
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,560
asked to cover, firstly they're
not even asked, they're told and

315
00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:18,320
it should always be a choice.
I think, and I know it is

316
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,360
annoyance what you have to get,
you have to get supplying then

317
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:21,480
to do this.
Do you know what I mean If

318
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,320
there's no cover?
But then also I think it's down

319
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,680
to schools how they treat their
assistants and their cover

320
00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:28,800
supervisors.
Like if they're eking everything

321
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,360
out of them and getting their
teaching assistants to work

322
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,000
before and after their
contracted hours, that's insane

323
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,600
and that's awful and that should
never happen.

324
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,120
I think both of these can exist.
I think you can have a really

325
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,960
good policy towards your
teaching assistants and not

326
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,240
exploit them and still give your
staff flu days.

327
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,800
Yeah, I don't if if someone's
saying well, it's bad for the

328
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,240
teaching assistants.
So I was like, well make it not

329
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:48,120
bad for them then.
Yeah, yeah.

330
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:49,120
Don't you next problem to.
Do it.

331
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,520
Yeah, exactly.
Don't force them to do it.

332
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,800
And if they do want to do it,
don't make them work before and

333
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,000
after their contract.
Don't just say, oh, well, I know

334
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,240
you're on less than a shop
assistant is, but can you just

335
00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,080
do this hour of marking after
school in your own time?

336
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:00,920
No, that day.
There's no written marking in

337
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,760
the book.
Change that.

338
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,960
You can't use that as a reason
to say why you can't do it.

339
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,000
Well, we've got a written
marking policy and the teaching

340
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,400
assistant would have to do that
in their own time.

341
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,680
Change the policy there when
you're in control of the thing

342
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:11,960
that's telling you to stop doing
it.

343
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,800
Change that is more complex.
That's what I mean about if

344
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,920
everything being black and white
of like, well, I thought of

345
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,400
this, I thought of B because
you've said A and therefore we

346
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,080
can't no hang on, there's a
CDEFGH there's.

347
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,320
Actually, 26 of them that's.
Exactly 26.

348
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,920
When you get to 26, then we've
got a problem all right, because

349
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,280
there's no more after that.
We're to do epsilons and stuff.

350
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,480
No, we can't do that.
We can't do that as the rules

351
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:32,320
change.
The rules I think outside the

352
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:33,560
box use different.
Alphabetes.

353
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:36,000
But it's true though, isn't it?
It's like there's no limit of

354
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,160
rethinking how anything is
managed and run like.

355
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,440
And the fact this works in this
school, like you said earlier,

356
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,320
you were like thinking of things
or maybe it only works in that

357
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:44,520
school, it couldn't work in
other schools.

358
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,440
I think this is the kind of
thing where you saying it can't

359
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,360
work in my school is something
you can maybe make work.

360
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,720
Yeah, it's AU problem, changes
the and there's other things you

361
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:55,960
can change.
Pros and cons?

362
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,440
It will be worse in this other
way, OK.

363
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,840
Like what's worse then it might.
Alright so pick then.

364
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,680
Do you want kids not to have
clubs or do this other way

365
00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:03,800
that's worse?
Which one do you want?

366
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,880
Well, actually I want them to
have clubs and to take advantage

367
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,320
of staff labour.
There's your problem.

368
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,240
OK, Yeah, that's your problem.
That's why we've got a retention

369
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:10,240
crisis.
OK?

370
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,680
So at some point you've got to
accept we do, we want teachers

371
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:14,560
to just keep leaving this job.
We have the other.

372
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,280
It's like a triangle, isn't it?
We have this one, you have this

373
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,080
thing.
There's all, there's downsides

374
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,560
to everything.
I love how you said it's like a

375
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:20,920
triangle then didn't tell me
remotely.

376
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,080
Because you said the other
first, it's.

377
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,520
Like a dot retention.
The first one was the thing we'd

378
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,480
already done, which was having
clubs and and the and the green

379
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:30,960
flag policy here having loo day
the ones.

380
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,760
Yeah, OK, right.
We don't have this loo policy

381
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,000
because you think it affects the
other things.

382
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,960
So, OK, now teachers aren't
doing their clubs.

383
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,640
And then the both is I want
both.

384
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:38,720
Yeah, it's OK.
Cool.

385
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,480
Now teachers don't want to work
in teaching.

386
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,240
It's like there's always a
downside.

387
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,400
You can't just have both.
Is it an equilateral triangle?

388
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,640
It's probably like a scaling,
scaling triangle, yeah.

389
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,160
No problem.
So yeah, I think the loo policy,

390
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,080
I think what a fantastic green
flag policy.

391
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,600
Hopefully we tried not to go too
much into the opposite and then

392
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,160
for toxic, but we yeah, instead
of saying let's celebrate it.

393
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,480
I think it's fantastic for our
teachers.

394
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,640
Why I think Kadem, I think we
should go on to because it links

395
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,880
needs to be thrown off here, but
I think we should go on to

396
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,040
well-being base because it
talked about something that kind

397
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,560
of overlaps here.
We had a couple of people right

398
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,960
in Charlotte and Toby both
talked about how in their school

399
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:14,360
they get well-being days off a
year.

400
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,280
They get days off for the sake
of days off.

401
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,160
Not that you've earned it.
It's like a separate thing time

402
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,040
and loop, but you literally just
get time off in term time earned

403
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,400
intrinsically exactly that.
It's just by saying that you

404
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,240
know what, we appreciate you.
Maybe this isn't something that

405
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,720
you'd have as well as the loop
policy.

406
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:28,680
I don't know.
Yeah, sure.

407
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,120
Or maybe it is just something
you said.

408
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:31,120
You know what don't even count
it.

409
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,160
Everyone gets a day off in term.
How important do you think it is

410
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,960
as a green flag policy?
It's something you would strive

411
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,720
to do as a leader in a school to
give people time off in time

412
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,960
time, even though there are 13
weeks, some holidays or it's

413
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,800
school holidays rather.
Why is it still really important

414
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,200
and such a good thing to do for
yourself?

415
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,720
Look, until I read how many
people wrote this in, I was

416
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,240
actually quite neutral about it.
I didn't really.

417
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,760
I actually genuinely thought,
yeah, it's quite nice, but it's

418
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,600
just a token.
And I always almost would have

419
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,800
gone down the line of, yeah, I
think it's all right.

420
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,960
It's pretty, it's a nice, it's
clearly a nice thing to do, but

421
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,400
it's not groundbreaking until
loads and loads and loads of

422
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,760
people wrote in as their green
flag, as the thing that came to

423
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,240
their mind of this is a really
nice practise.

424
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,760
And it's, and I think about it
and it's really affected me, the

425
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,120
fact that my school provides,
even if it's just one day a

426
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,120
year, some, some people wrote in
saying they get more, they get

427
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,080
like a couple of days, they get
one every two terms or something

428
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,800
like that.
It's made me now change my mind

429
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:20,920
a bit.
And I'm like, actually, that's

430
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,560
clearly, clearly a really
important thing because not only

431
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,400
does it give them the physical
time in term time, which is

432
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,360
quite tricky because when you
are limited to term time as a

433
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,160
teacher, there are just
downsides to school holidays and

434
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,040
you have to adhere by those
holidays all the time.

435
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,200
Like there's obviously perks
that having holiday from your

436
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,160
work in term time.
We've talked about those before.

437
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,720
But not only is it that it's, it
is the principal as well.

438
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,760
A lot of this stuff and we've
almost established it with the

439
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,400
last point with clubs and the
principle of doing it.

440
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,040
A lot of it is principal because
we know we work hard and we know

441
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,920
we're really underappreciated
profession.

442
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,480
So someone just turning around
and saying, because you work

443
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,480
hard and I appreciate you as you
as your school leader, I know

444
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,720
it's just a token and I can't
give you the world, but I would

445
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,320
like you to have a day off, no
questions asked at some point in

446
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,720
the year.
That's a really nice thing and

447
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,640
it would make me feel good And,
and it clearly makes other

448
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,920
people feel even better, even
more good than I would feel

449
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,760
because I sort of evaluated it
as it it's all right.

450
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,160
It's pretty pretty decent so I
don't know if that answered your

451
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,359
question, but.
No, it's huge.

452
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,800
I think the the point I was
saying also just alluding to

453
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,359
because the time and time and
losing.

454
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,599
I think it's really important
for people who aren't

455
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,680
necessarily in teaching as well
to understand and teachers who

456
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,040
are there feeling guilty about
wanting time off in time time.

457
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:30,280
You, you need to understand that
there are just times where

458
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,160
having set time off in the year
can have a negative even if you

459
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,560
get more of it.
Because because I, I am fully

460
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,360
aware of people out there
listening to put someone saying

461
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,280
you get 13 weeks off a year and
you're saying you want another

462
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,280
day off in term time.
Are you ridiculous?

463
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,560
Just think about your child's
birthdays, weddings of your best

464
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,160
mates and stuff like that was
mentioned earlier.

465
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,760
Just doing your Christmas
shopping, going on a Tuesday

466
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,800
afternoon.
There's someone, someone written

467
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,000
in here, they get half day for
Christmas shopping in autumn

468
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,200
too.
That's so cool because they're

469
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,960
parents as well.
And it's like that.

470
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,680
You need to go and do your
Christmas shopping for your

471
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,240
children when you don't have
your children.

472
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,560
So when, when you're you're
going at the weekend with all

473
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,120
your kids, you can't get
childcare, etcetera.

474
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,360
Just having 1/2 day small things
like that.

475
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,440
And I think back to our our
school we worked in the most

476
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,360
recent school we worked in who
introduced this a couple of

477
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,520
years ago, just like a one off
for the year the same day.

478
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,760
Yeah, just yeah, exactly that to
say thank you for your hard

479
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,160
work.
We just had an offset inspection

480
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,760
and it was saying like, guys, I
know so many of you went above

481
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,960
and beyond did so much have a
day off this year.

482
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,160
And it was like really well
received because it's the kind

483
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,440
of thing where sure, we should
be, but so many aren't.

484
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,480
So like you take what you get.
So thank you.

485
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,080
Wow, thank you so much.
You did not have to do that.

486
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,560
But then what I found really
amazing about our leadership was

487
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,720
the next year they said, you
know what, this was so well

488
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,040
received, we're going to do it
again.

489
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,160
We're going to make it work.
No questions asked.

490
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,720
You get a day off, you just
simply book it whenever you

491
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,840
want.
We'll find cover and we won't.

492
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,840
You don't need to tell us why.
You can sit at home all day if

493
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,240
you want.
You can do it on a Friday and

494
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,520
have a long weekend.
You can do whatever you want.

495
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,600
We won't ask you a question.
And it had such an impact.

496
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,280
And I saw my colleagues and that
small thing I think goes a long

497
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,000
way.
And I'm even thinking of why is

498
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,200
it a green flag policy?
Well, because my kids will get

499
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,080
more out of me.
Like I will be less negative

500
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,320
perhaps when you're asking me to
do extra stuff, I might think,

501
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,000
you know, I've got my day off
next week.

502
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,360
I'll do this 10 minute job right
now.

503
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,440
Like I'm more likely to do stuff
for you as a human being if I

504
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,400
can see and notice you doing
stuff for me.

505
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,800
I'm.
Sure, we've read research

506
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,280
before, probably in the last
couple of years.

507
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,760
It might even have been related
to an episode that just proved

508
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,000
like from a psychological
perspective, that when you feel

509
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,440
appreciated, you do more anyway.
Exactly.

510
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,640
It's like it's literally a win
win.

511
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,200
If your staff feel appreciated.
Hilariously, they do the things

512
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,000
that you were trying to enforce
before that they're putting

513
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,640
their stamping their feet down
and say I'm not doing this.

514
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,320
I'm getting exploited when you
just appreciate your staff and

515
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,240
show appreciate through like a
that actually properly, not just

516
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,160
fake, but pretending to actually
showing appreciation to them.

517
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,880
Hilariously, people are more
willing to do those things

518
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,400
anyway because they feel happy
in their workplace.

519
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,200
And it's it's the little
psychological hacks like that

520
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,120
that where I'm like, yeah, do
you know what it kind of isn't?

521
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,480
It isn't the one.
My life is not now changed

522
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,360
because I had one less day at
work of the year.

523
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,360
I'm not, I'm now not, not burned
out from that.

524
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,920
But because I feel appreciated,
I'm then happy and then I'm

525
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,120
more.
And then if I'm happy, I'm doing

526
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:10,880
my job more effectively, I'm
doing my job more effectively.

527
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,920
I'm going home feeling positive.
I'm not worrying.

528
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,240
I'm not feeling this burned out
like it's all just there's so

529
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,000
many little things you can do
like that where it's not about

530
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,080
the actual physical act almost
in the end it's it's the

531
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,520
psychological impact it has on
someone to show them that you

532
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:23,640
actually care about them
because.

533
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,120
It's not going to fix the
problem, right?

534
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,600
If you're in a school where five
other policies, 6 other policies

535
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,280
are really wearing you down and
you get one day off a year, I

536
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,080
can imagine there are some
schools where actually it's

537
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,920
like, of course I'm going to
take it.

538
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,440
But geez, can we stop this
though?

539
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,640
Because the other five times I'm
just so rundown and me getting

540
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,800
that day off just to relax or
see my friend, whatever really

541
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,280
helped me for a bit, but like
it's not helping me now later

542
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,960
on.
So I do think like it has to

543
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,360
come with lots of other stuff.
But yeah, you're right.

544
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:50,160
It's just it's it's almost a
nod, isn't it?

545
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,680
It's a nod to that.
And the only thing I want to

546
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,200
kind of draw comparison to now
with the loo policy and the day

547
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,160
off is that this very much the
well-being day off is very much

548
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,120
a day off.
It's very much just like you

549
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:02,600
have the day, just take the day
off.

550
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,600
I don't care.
Every single person in the whole

551
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,280
school in our school got one.
Whether you were a teacher, a

552
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,680
teaching assistant, office
staff, cleaners, site managers,

553
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,840
SLT.
If you worked in that school,

554
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,800
you got a day off.
And at no point was anyone

555
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,400
thinking, well, I do much more.
No, I do.

556
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:19,240
It wasn't.
No, no.

557
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:20,360
I did all the clubs to earn
that.

558
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:21,920
Yeah, no, it wasn't linked to
whatsoever.

559
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,240
It was just you're a human being
up there for.

560
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:25,000
Work we appreciate.
You.

561
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,400
That was it.
Whereas the loo thing, the

562
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,960
reason why I think that's really
important and can be at the same

563
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,840
time now I think about it, is
you are physically doing extra

564
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,640
work and you're just getting
your time back.

565
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,880
And I think that's fantastic
because at the end of the day,

566
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,720
every single teacher in the
world wants the best experience

567
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,200
for the kids.
OK, I want my class to get that

568
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,200
residential, but I'm not going
to make my son at home not get

569
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,240
me.
So you know what, you know what

570
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,600
this does, it at least says,
well, if you're sacrificing your

571
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,120
own personal time with your son,
have some back.

572
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:55,760
It's not just out of nothing.
You've earned it.

573
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,920
And I think needs to my goodness
me, what a way.

574
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,200
If you started in a school and
you heard about both of these

575
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,240
immediately I'd be like, this is
a place I want to be.

576
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,760
Definitely.
So, oh, there's some

577
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,280
appreciation here on multiple
levels.

578
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,280
And it's not just a token, not
just that you said another

579
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:10,600
school, there's 8 policies that
are against you.

580
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,000
And then they've done this one
token thing.

581
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:13,400
You see through it, don't you?
Right.

582
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,560
And I know it can coexist
because literally in the school

583
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,040
we've worked at, really big up
our last school here, but we, we

584
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,360
should because we did, there
were, we didn't have a loo

585
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,200
policy, but if we went on the
year 6 residential, we did then

586
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,280
get a day in lieu and we also
had this well-being day.

587
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:27,840
So there was a point where I had
my year 6 residential day in

588
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,040
lieu and I had my loo day and I
took them back-to-back and I

589
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,840
genuinely had like a really
nice, like super long weekend,

590
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,240
no questions asked.
It was like, yeah, cool, because

591
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,600
I've earned it.
Like you can absolutely have

592
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,680
both.
So I think schools leaders, if

593
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,640
you're listening, think about
it, is it something, if the

594
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,320
answer is no because of another
policy, then think about that

595
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:45,640
one as well.
Like Dylan was saying earlier,

596
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,680
just think more deeply about it.
Is it something you can make 6

597
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,480
or 7 changes to accommodate this
with minimal negative impact and

598
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,400
and hilariously probably overall
a really positive impact because

599
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,760
as we've established and I'll
keep saying it, happy staff work

600
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,960
really well and they do great
stuff like let's do that.

601
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:01,400
Exactly what's going on?
How did you pick the next?

602
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,080
One another category here I
thought was interesting because

603
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,240
we had a couple of people write
in same sort of light here,

604
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:06,600
which was all about parents
evening.

605
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,880
The classic thing, right,
Parents evening is it

606
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,800
immediately implies you're
working way beyond the hours of

607
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,480
the school day and it's usually
tagged onto the end of the

608
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,600
school day.
So this person said online

609
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,840
parents evening, never thought
about that, where it is

610
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,000
impossible for parents to turn
up at the wrong time or for

611
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,400
appointments to overrun.
It's just I guess the fact that

612
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,760
they're doing online I thought
was interesting.

613
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,480
What do you think about that
rather than face to face?

614
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:27,640
Yeah.
Do you know what?

615
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,600
I get it.
And and the online thing is

616
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,240
probably from the time where we
couldn't meet up for you know

617
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,640
what reasons few years ago where
people couldn't be in contact

618
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,560
with each other.
I think I think it's a nice way

619
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,880
of doing it in terms of you can
still talk to them on video

620
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,600
call.
Yeah, you can still see that I

621
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,960
personally like face to face.
I personally like physically

622
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,680
meeting the parents.
But I completely understand what

623
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,720
Andy's saying here when he wrote
into his about print online.

624
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,840
Because essentially how many
times when you've been face to

625
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,280
face just getting grossed in a
conversation, there are people

626
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:00,960
waiting in that room.
You, you.

627
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,840
And, and I've had times before
where I've tried to stop an

628
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,400
overrunning conversation
multiple times and without being

629
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,120
really rude because you want to
avoid that obviously with a

630
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:10,120
parent, the parent just keeps
talking.

631
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:11,560
Oh yeah.
And I was thinking about this.

632
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,280
I've got 3 minutes past right
now.

633
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,440
Whereas on online, I can imagine
it's like, okay, I've got to end

634
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,600
this call now the time I've got
another.

635
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,120
Yeah, exactly.
I've got another call to come

636
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:22,840
on.
I just think that there are

637
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,840
ways.
There are ways of doing parents

638
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,600
evening with Green fan policies
online and in person.

639
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,120
Yeah, I think so.
And I think what I take from

640
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:32,520
this is parents turning up at
the wrong time and appointments

641
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,800
overrunning.
Going to go back to our school

642
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,600
again.
You know, we loved working in

643
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,040
our old school because every
single parents evening we had

644
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,840
there was such a positive senior
leadership presence at all

645
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,800
times.
Always walking around, always

646
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,000
asking us if we wanted a drink.
You know, always looking after

647
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,800
us, making sure we're lost.
Place the gold on the.

648
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,080
Wrong.
No whiskey, I said.

649
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,920
I don't like where your brain
went, Mr Gold.

650
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:57,440
Shaken.
That's even a drink.

651
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,280
Monster.
So can you melt me down to 3

652
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,600
whisper golds and put it on the
rocks?

653
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,800
Please front of the parents and
watching you like what has he?

654
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,440
Talked about teaching my
children.

655
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:05,560
My goodness me.
Yeah.

656
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,600
Back to our healthy eating
topic.

657
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:09,080
But our leadership team are
always there.

658
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,840
And what I really, really
enjoyed about our leadership

659
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,360
team was that it was almost like
this unspoken rule.

660
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:19,240
But if at any point leadership
thought maybe there might be

661
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,080
difficult conversations to have
with certain people, they

662
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,320
wouldn't come in and make it
known.

663
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,600
And like, I'm here, guys, they'd
be around and, and you knew.

664
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,240
And what I loved about it, I
knew that if anything did turn

665
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,080
sour or there were some awkward
conversations to have, I knew my

666
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,880
leadership would back me up.
And I, and that's such a green

667
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,720
flag for me, you know, knowing
that in parents evening, you're

668
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,800
a team because I can, I know
sometimes it can feel like you

669
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,920
can appease the parents and you
can sometimes feel as if it's

670
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,240
the parents and the leadership
versus you if you're trying to

671
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,600
get something across and you're
like, I've got to placate the

672
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,000
parent in this sense because
I've, and I'm like, I get that.

673
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,240
But there's something to be said
about just having a completely

674
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,600
unified front on parents
evening.

675
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,000
That's both tricky conversations
timings.

676
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,960
I'd have SLT before come along
and be like running a bit late.

677
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,960
Are we Mr. Price?
And I know for a fact they're

678
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,080
not digging me out.
They're helping me and they say,

679
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,720
oh, oh, I am I'm so sorry.
We'll have to wrap they've.

680
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,680
Noticed you've been there for 20
minutes with this 5 minute

681
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,400
appointment and they're like.
Exactly.

682
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,320
So I think that that all kind of
wraps into the act of doing

683
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,160
parents evening.
I think you have to be united

684
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,440
front.
I don't think there's one good

685
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,200
way of doing parents evening.
I do think there's one good way

686
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,880
of having an attitude towards
parents.

687
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,120
Evening definitely, that is
really, really important.

688
00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:33,320
Someone else wrote in about
parents e-mail.

689
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,560
What's interesting is more about
the physical timing side of it.

690
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,120
Or they said early finish on
parents evening days so the kids

691
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,880
actually go home a bit early so
that parents evening can start a

692
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,800
bit earlier at 2:00 PM.
It gives teachers a small break

693
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,520
to just a great green flag.
I, I, I've worked in a school

694
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,000
that's done that before.
I've known that's quite a common

695
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,000
one, I say is just, yeah, making
the school day shorter so that

696
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,040
parents evening isn't from 3:30
until 9:00, which I, it very

697
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,480
much was not.
We had lots of votes in our

698
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,200
school over the years of like
how we do parents evening, but

699
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,880
we, we're always stuck to that.
Whereas I did like working in

700
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,800
other schools where parents
evening started literally after

701
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,520
lunchtime and that was always
nice as well.

702
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,160
It's work at the end of the day,
isn't it?

703
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,800
It goes back to that kind of
like understanding that to me,

704
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,840
it's not even like I'll get some
time back from your teaching.

705
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,960
For me, it's like avoiding
having my work day be 7 till

706
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,360
half nine.
Like because even for the

707
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,960
parents, like if a parent booked
an appointment with me at 9:10

708
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,840
in the evening, right, they're
not going to get the best

709
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,040
version.
I can barely talk and like be

710
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,920
coherent myself.
Like it's been such a long

711
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,720
stretch.
And they're always breaks.

712
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,200
Like I want to make this really
clear.

713
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,600
When we did this, there were
always breaks kind of blocked

714
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,680
in.
We always got food bought for us

715
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,320
and it was literally voted for
by the majority of people.

716
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,040
It was always a conversation, so
it's not to think that it was

717
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,440
just imposed on us, but I think
that's where it gets back to how

718
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,280
you do stuff for parents
evening.

719
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,960
I think as long as it's always
in in the mantra of how do I

720
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,480
help my staff get through this,
what could be very a tricky day,

721
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,040
a tricky experience for a number
of reasons.

722
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,520
It seems to me every green flag
we got talked about we got sent

723
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,960
in rather was in that in that
mould of my leadership team are

724
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,760
trying to make this as positive
as possible and helpful for me.

725
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,880
I feel like there's a very
obvious core theme running

726
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,520
through this episode, but we'll
talk more about it at the end.

727
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,600
I think it's pretty obvious what
makes a school nice.

728
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,160
Is it a triangle?
Is a triangle specifically a

729
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,440
scalene?
There's another.

730
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,880
So another category that came up
a lot, and I did kind of expect

731
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,320
this one.
I thought it's just a big topic

732
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,480
to talk about was PPA.
So for those that aren't in in

733
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,760
the teaching world, PPAS is our
planning, preparation,

734
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,440
assessment time.
It's that protected time that

735
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,400
teachers get outside of the
classroom.

736
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,960
It needs to be taken what is
rather than teaching.

737
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,120
You're given a time out of the
classroom.

738
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:32,800
It's 10% minimum.
Minimum is is like you have a

739
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,520
guaranteed.
Well, I say guaranteed.

740
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,840
Schools don't even do.
That no, this is a green flag.

741
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,320
It's a.
Green flag, it's positive so

742
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,480
you're supposed to have 10%
outside of non teaching time.

743
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,680
But you can do whatever you
want.

744
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,440
The whole point is is not
directed.

745
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,680
Someone can't come and say this
is what you're doing in your PPA

746
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,840
time today.
It's your time to do whatever

747
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,600
you want, whether it fits under
planning, preparation,

748
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,360
assessment, or whatever you feel
like.

749
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,800
You need and importantly, it's
never enough time.

750
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,720
So yeah, it's like it's a nice
part of your week because you

751
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,080
get stuff done.
Yeah, but it's never enough to

752
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,280
fully do that.
So it's a nod and it's nice.

753
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,280
So specifically of PPAA lot of
people wrote in and said they

754
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,680
get PPA from home.
Yes.

755
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,120
Hayden, why?
Please, please.

756
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,840
Those Daily Mail headline
readers say teachers want one

757
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,000
day off a week for marking.
Can you please explain why PPA

758
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,320
from home in our opinion would
be a huge green flag and a

759
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,720
benefit to teachers?
Why is it a good thing?

760
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,040
The work's getting done anyway.
That's the way I see it in PPA.

761
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,920
Whatever that work is you're
doing in PPA, you've got to get

762
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,680
it done.
It's not going to not get done.

763
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,360
I mean, people, people worry and
say if you send them home,

764
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,800
they'll be lazy and do nothing.
No, they won't, because they

765
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,640
literally can't teach the
lessons next week or without

766
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,600
doing the work they need to do.
So giving them that flexibility

767
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,200
is a massive psychological win
for those teachers.

768
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,200
Going home on a Friday might
allow them to do something.

769
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,760
You know, like we talked about
having loo days allows you to go

770
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,640
to your kids birthday, whatever.
Having that Friday might allow

771
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,520
that bit of flexibility that
just makes that teachers life

772
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,360
better because they are at the
end of the day stuck to term

773
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,520
time, working conditions.
You've got, you know, years in

774
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,080
advance what days we work and
what days you want.

775
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,880
So you can't control that.
This gives them a little bit of

776
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,120
flexibility.
Teachers work at the weekend

777
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,320
anyway, right?
So would you have a problem if

778
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,760
someone, if you did APPA from
home policy, would you have an

779
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,680
issue with someone finishing on
a Tuesday?

780
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,400
They've got their afternoon, the
PPA, they can go home, but

781
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,280
instead of doing work in the
afternoon, they go to the gym

782
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:19,800
because there's a gym class they
want to join.

783
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,760
They go shopping, they pick up
their child from school because

784
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,120
they don't get the opportunity
to do that.

785
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,880
They take their child home, they
do their their dinner, etcetera,

786
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,080
and they have a bit, do a bit of
work in the evening when the

787
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,920
child's down or maybe do their
work on a Sunday.

788
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,200
Is that an issue to you or is
that a good thing?

789
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,920
It's a good thing we're giving.
We're giving a little.

790
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,320
We're talking the smallest bit
of flexibility here.

791
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,680
Remember for the other 9/10 of
this week, they are in school

792
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,680
the exact contracted hours
teaching kids doing what they

793
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,080
need to do.
We're talking about a 10% of

794
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,240
their week where we say there's
a little bit of flexibility here

795
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,440
and you still have to get the
work done.

796
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,280
It's just up to you.
I don't think that's the

797
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,160
craziest, most groundbreaking
thing to do to to with an

798
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,120
employee to say, oh, get this
10% the work done, but do it

799
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,280
when you want.
Yeah, because realistically

800
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,960
you're already doing hours and
hours and hours of work when you

801
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,200
want.
This also expected.

802
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,960
When you want to talk about it,
when you want is a bit far.

803
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,400
When I want, I don't want to do
this, but yeah, you're.

804
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,280
Absolutely right.
I mean, it's got but yeah, when

805
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,520
you want boils down to you can
do it on Saturday or Sunday.

806
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,720
So you can either do 2 hours of
work on a Tuesday afternoon or

807
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,760
three hours on a Sunday, or you
can do five hours on a Sunday.

808
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,040
Yeah, I don't care.
But if it means you get to go to

809
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,400
the gym or get some time to do
stuff where you wouldn't

810
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,280
necessarily before, yeah, I
would say when PPA being allowed

811
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,280
at home, I I still hear of
people who, who, who get that

812
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,520
rule, but then they're told, but
you can't be seen out.

813
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,640
You can't be, you can't might be
seen at the shopping centre

814
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,040
because it might be a parent
there.

815
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,680
So don't go and get your nails
done, but go home and do work.

816
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,440
And I just think you have to be
the the person to push this rule

817
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,080
as normal.
You as the leader have to say go

818
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,280
and get your nails done.
If a parent has a problem with

819
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,160
it or sees you or raises
something, I'll talk to them and

820
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,880
I'll say, Oh yeah, of course
it's their, it's their PPA time.

821
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:54,640
You might be thinking why
they're not doing their

822
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,200
planning.
That's reasonable, genuinely.

823
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,640
That is genuinely reasonable.
If I saw you know it wasn't in

824
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,440
the education world, and I saw
my child's teacher in, you know,

825
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,480
the salon next to me when you
know your.

826
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:05,920
Child at school.
When I know my child at school,

827
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,440
I think it's reasonable to think
what on earth's going on.

828
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,320
However, as a leader, I'd be
saying I'm going to explain it

829
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:12,640
to you.
I'm going to explain this to

830
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:13,440
you.
Very simple, actually.

831
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:14,560
Yeah.
Just because you think something

832
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:15,800
doesn't mean we have to pander
to it.

833
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,880
In fact, I can try and explain
to you why.

834
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,800
If you still have a problem, I'm
sorry.

835
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,160
That is what we do.
If you don't have a problem now,

836
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,280
awesome.
See you next week.

837
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,720
Get your nails done as well.
Yeah, I just think PPA from home

838
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,120
is ultimate and we've had so
many messages from people and

839
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,480
it's where I feel kind of proud
of what we've done with the

840
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,080
podcast and stuff online where
people have said thank you so

841
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,360
much.
I became more brave.

842
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,760
I I went to my leadership and I
asked for PPA from home and they

843
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,320
said, oh, we haven't really
thought about it before, let's

844
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,080
see what we can do.
And within the week the whole

845
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,760
school have PPA from home.
There we go.

846
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,720
It's the ultimate example of not
just going down a rabbit hole in

847
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,680
your mind of thinking what
someone might say before they've

848
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,760
even said it.
Don't just assume because

849
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,240
something isn't happening, it
can't happen or it's because

850
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,720
they're going to be negative
towards you.

851
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,080
Yeah, most of the time leaders
are amazing people who will

852
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,440
think to themselves, Oh yeah,
OK, let's see what we can do.

853
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:05,560
Yeah, because they're also
really busy.

854
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:06,560
Exactly.
They haven't thought about it.

855
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,960
They're not gonna ever thought
about it because they they're

856
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,080
trying to get away with it.
They.

857
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,080
Don't get PPA.
They just, yeah, it's not in

858
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:12,280
that.
Yeah, whatever.

859
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,480
Of course good leaders will
always think about it, but that

860
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,400
you can be a good leader and be
like, oh crap, yeah, let's see

861
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,600
what we can.
Do let's let's put something in

862
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,240
place and if they do it, then
that's a good sign, right?

863
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:21,760
Exactly.
Well, let's try how about try

864
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,120
this one same same, same person,
go to your leadership and ask

865
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,000
for 20% PPA, right, Because this
is another one.

866
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,480
This one to me was a bit more
like wow and.

867
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,440
We've had this previously.
I don't know this is the same

868
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,360
person, but this is one of our
most viral reels.

869
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,440
Yeah, was about how PPA should
look and in their school, I

870
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,600
think this is it.
Schools that look at the 10% PPA

871
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,320
rule as a minimum and not a
target, to me are schools who

872
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,320
are doing it right.
Schools who think where, where

873
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:47,960
else can I release my staff to
do their job?

874
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,640
I know for a fact there isn't
enough time in the day to get

875
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,640
the job done as a teacher.
I know they're working at the

876
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,760
weekend.
I know they're doing extra. 10%

877
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,880
is the minimum.
Where can I stretch this?

878
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,840
And most of the unions will
suggest 20% for PPA time.

879
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,560
I think if you gave, you know,
some schools who do have 20%

880
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,160
PPA, which is a whole day, a
whole day every week, I think

881
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,960
that's fantastic.
This kind of spreads to me a bit

882
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,840
more into, I've seen enough
people say as leaders of

883
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,159
schools, we literally could not
afford to do this.

884
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,199
So I do really understand it
when people are like, look, this

885
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:21,280
is fantastic.
But I we physically can't do

886
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,159
that.
I reckon there are probably some

887
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,520
examples here where schools just
can't do this.

888
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:26,920
OK.
And there might be other schools

889
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,800
who for every reason, however
they logistically set up, maybe

890
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,400
they can.
I don't know enough about it.

891
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,199
All I can say is that it's the
ultimate green flag policy to me

892
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,000
because it's the ultimate
version of what we're just

893
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,679
saying.
There isn't enough time in PPA

894
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:41,600
to get this job done.
So the more PPA you can give

895
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,679
your staff, you should be doing
that.

896
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,080
It should never be.
Where can I squeeze PPA?

897
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:48,520
Bloody hell it's 10.5%.
Get rid of 10 minutes.

898
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,760
I've heard of schools who have
said to their staff, OK, you can

899
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,639
have more in PPA, but we need
you back in the classroom at

900
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:56,560
11:45 for the last 20 minutes of
the lesson before lunch.

901
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,360
Honestly, like I want to say a
lot of words to that.

902
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,800
If you are forcing your staff
back back into the classroom for

903
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,440
the last 20 minutes because it
goes above their 10%.

904
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,080
And then if they have the extra
1015 minutes before their lunch

905
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,320
when they're off anyway, sort
yourself out.

906
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,200
Look at yourself, get a life
because.

907
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,360
That's not even for the kids.
No, there's no, there's no

908
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,280
situation where that's not more
disruptive, right?

909
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,160
Just for the last 20 minutes.
They're probably just doing

910
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,200
their task at.
This point, whatever.

911
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,800
If they're so resentful to give
any time to their staff, I think

912
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,800
that's right and I'm slipping
into red flag again.

913
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,640
What I'm saying here is just
those schools that go above and

914
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,480
beyond in the same way teachers
go above and beyond.

915
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,480
Yeah, those schools who
reciprocate that.

916
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,960
And that's the kind of thing
we've got going back to here and

917
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,680
give 12%.
Yeah, yeah.

918
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,040
Or, or just, you know, every now
and then just book in a bit of

919
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,280
extra time just to say, oh, do
you know what you've got this

920
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,720
afternoon off this?
Time, yeah, or they just know

921
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:44,120
it's more than 10%.
Yeah, you know what I mean,

922
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,080
where they're like, we guarantee
this 10%, we've done a bit more,

923
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:47,880
we don't even add it up.
We know it's more than 10%

924
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:48,360
though.
Exactly.

925
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,040
And again, going back to our
school, we had every single time

926
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,640
sports mornings where children
would get extra PA with P

927
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,120
coaches who would come in and do
it and were paid to do that.

928
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,320
And as teachers, the reason was
we weren't getting 10% PPA.

929
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:03,520
Yeah, I think this is really.
Important.

930
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,800
So this is we, we worked in a
very lovely school, but we were

931
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,960
not getting 10% PPA.
Yeah, 10% is the minimum.

932
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,720
We were getting like 8 and a
half, 9%.

933
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:13,040
Yeah, it worked out like. 9 and
it and do you know what?

934
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,880
Maybe it was half an hour
maximum that we weren't getting,

935
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,840
but that's important.
It's a minimum.

936
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,840
It's not just a minimum of just
could maybe.

937
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,560
And a bit less no.
It's a minimum.

938
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,360
So it was brought up very
receptive leadership.

939
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,280
We need it to be 10% booked this
time.

940
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,760
Yeah, which took us past 10%.
They didn't sit there

941
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,360
calculating more.
I wonder exactly how 10% could

942
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,000
be.
It needs to be 12 1/2 minutes.

943
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,080
And then no, what happened was
they went, oh, Christ, yeah, we

944
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,640
need to go past this.
But does that time put us

945
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,400
comfortably above 10%?
And it wasn't nitpicking that

946
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:45,320
stuff.
And I was like, thank you,

947
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,240
appreciate that.
It was a classic example of not

948
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:51,360
someone being malicious
whatsoever, but simply someone

949
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,000
not understanding or not
knowing.

950
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,280
Finding out, changing it, green
flag.

951
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:56,640
And it was in quite an effective
way.

952
00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:58,440
It just kind of shows us lots of
ways to do it.

953
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,200
Rather than going, OK, we need
to do at least 12 more minutes a

954
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,680
week.
They were like, OK, look, we

955
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,240
can't, we actually can't.
The way our school works, it

956
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,640
would be really awkward to give
everyone weekly this extra 12.

957
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,320
Well, I'd say 12, whatever, it
could be 20 minutes, but it

958
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,040
would have been awkward to do
that because the way our PPO

959
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,880
worked was we had an entire
session out and that session was

960
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,920
that length and it was hardly
would have been harder to change

961
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,960
that session length.
So the school said, OK, let's

962
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,080
make up the time with like you
said, we had a sports coach day

963
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,960
every single time when they come
in and we get the entire day

964
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,120
out, it was great.
And like you said it did, if you

965
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,600
added all the hours up, it took
us more than 10%, but it was an

966
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,840
effective way to get that extra
1 percent we were missing

967
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,200
because now we've got an entire
day off.

968
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,560
And actually you could achieve
loads of stuff.

969
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:39,040
I looked at that as like, right,
this is my bulk PPA day.

970
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,360
Yeah, I was like, what PPA jobs
that I would like to do in bulk?

971
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,360
Will I?
Because I'll do that now,

972
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,160
because I've got this one day
off a term and I'll do all this

973
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,440
printing, all this, whatever it
was.

974
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,200
I was like, I just want to do
these things but I want to do

975
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,120
them all at once.
But did you find as well

976
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,440
alongside that, let's say you
have PPA from home, etcetera.

977
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,200
It's great.
I found those those days,

978
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,840
they're really good
opportunities once a term to get

979
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,880
together with my team, my other
people who are planning English

980
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,920
and think, hey, next time,
what's our medium term plan?

981
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,280
What books are we picking?
What books are we going to do?

982
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,560
What what are we going to cover
in our writing it And that was

983
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,480
just like, but then that was
just an hour.

984
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,400
I had the rest of the time still
like it was just it was enough

985
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,240
to touch base.
It meant we didn't have to do

986
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:17,960
weekly after school meetings in
your groups.

987
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,120
Pointless, completely pointless.
Didn't have to do it.

988
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,440
I could every time we could
touch base and be like, well,

989
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:23,640
we've got our sports morning
out.

990
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,560
Let's touch base.
Let's think about the next one.

991
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,560
And I just think, yeah, it it
comes back to 10% to minimum.

992
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:32,200
Any schools that are looking to
extend that in whatever way they

993
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,800
can, huge green flag.
And I think, yeah, not lazy

994
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,440
teachers, but instead just
giving them something back.

995
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,480
Yeah, I appreciate your staff.
What seems to be a theme.

996
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,520
Here's another one for you,
similarish I guess from

997
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,800
Catherine, who says we have
inset days for report writing at

998
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:47,640
home.
This is huge.

999
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:50,160
Similar to the whole PPA at home
thing and inset day for report

1000
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,440
writing at home.
Report writing is like some

1001
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,560
schools will do it multiple
times a year, some schools do it

1002
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,800
just once per year and we'll
send a written report back to

1003
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,080
parents.
The end of my life, but my whole

1004
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,240
career honestly was one of
these, one of the worst

1005
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,560
experiences purely because not
because I'm like writing nice

1006
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,880
things about kids.
It's because it was always just

1007
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,200
kind of like a just get this
done now as well.

1008
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,800
And it's an A massive job.
It's not an insignificant job

1009
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,680
writing genuine reports for
people.

1010
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,800
Obviously we've had lots of
advancements now and things like

1011
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,120
AI helping us structure our
thoughts, but you're still

1012
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,960
feeding in.
You still need to know the

1013
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,840
child.
You can't just say to AI, write

1014
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,880
this report, please for this
child that you don't know.

1015
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,640
It doesn't work like that.
As what people seem to think

1016
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,840
happens.
You still have to give it all of

1017
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,560
the intricate details about a
child, even if it is just put

1018
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,320
into a paragraph for you.
Having some time off to do that

1019
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,000
is the ultimate appreciation for
me because I'm like, I always

1020
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,920
completely hated and resented
the idea that it was ignored,

1021
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,760
that I have to do this massive
job.

1022
00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:45,000
Like more than anything.
There's loads of jobs we go,

1023
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,680
they're getting ignored and
everyone just pretends that

1024
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:47,560
we're not doing it at the
weekend.

1025
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,280
But that's one.
For me, right in time, I guess I

1026
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:50,480
just have to give up my life for
this.

1027
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,560
Yeah, like that one for me was
always like a that's a kick in

1028
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,200
the teeth.
It's like, you know how long

1029
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,760
you.
I'm sending you the Word

1030
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,760
document.
That's 20,000 words at the end

1031
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,120
of it.
You know how long that's taken.

1032
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,920
Why are you pretending like I
didn't need time for it?

1033
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,720
Mentors.
Yeah, that was a that was a

1034
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:07,960
lovely one to see in set days.
11 link to an inset day because

1035
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,360
it's like to do with staff
training in general.

1036
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,120
We had a few people talk about
staff training as well.

1037
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,320
I think using that time
effectively and not being scared

1038
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,400
to think, well I need to get
ACPD certificate at the end of

1039
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,400
it and that's OK for an inset
day to be about report, right?

1040
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,600
It's also OK for staff meetings
to not happen unless they need

1041
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:23,600
to.
They could.

1042
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,280
There's this huge green flag
policy.

1043
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,520
I think it's fantastic, which is
where their SLT will say we

1044
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,080
don't need the staff meeting
this week and like it's the end

1045
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:32,880
of it.
There's no discussion.

1046
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,000
It's not oh gosh, no, we've not
got something in there.

1047
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,200
What can we do?
Let's get what's his name to the

1048
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:40,760
geography one?
No, no, none of that.

1049
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:41,880
None of that filling.
It for the sake of it.

1050
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,120
Yeah, we're not doing it for the
sake of it.

1051
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,920
And also this was one that was
written in no staff meetings.

1052
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,040
Is something else is on like a
school disco, like some kind of

1053
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,680
parents information, you mean?
Absolutely.

1054
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,320
It's all about balancing your
time.

1055
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,480
If you've got a disco and you
want your staff to come to it,

1056
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,160
say to them anyone who comes to
the disco won't have to do the

1057
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,440
staff meeting.
Brilliant like that.

1058
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,160
That's that's just, it's just
taking people's time seriously.

1059
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,120
And a huge one in staff training
was to do with a directed time

1060
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,560
calendar.
Hey, I want to pass it over to

1061
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:12,160
you.
Yeah, sure.

1062
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,720
Why is a directed timesheet, a
directed time calendar, such a

1063
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:17,840
Green 5 policy?
We talked about, you know,

1064
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,640
paying back staff for their
time, but why is this a green

1065
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,720
flag?
And Tim talked about how once it

1066
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:27,520
was given, staff meetings now
were 3:20 to 4:20, and

1067
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,040
previously they finished at 5:00
PM.

1068
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,680
Yeah, sure.
So just to be really clear, a

1069
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,000
director time calendar is
basically from, it should be

1070
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,600
from your leaders.
It is a calendar that that shows

1071
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,440
you for the whole academic year
where your director time is

1072
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,040
being allocated literally says
these are the hours that we are

1073
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,440
directing you to do for the
whole year.

1074
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:46,600
It adds up to was it 1265?
1265. 1265 hours for the whole

1075
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,440
year and they're just basically,
he's saying they're just

1076
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,920
literally verifying that you're
doing your job and they're not

1077
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,320
taking the Mick.
A lot of schools from from just

1078
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,600
from conversations either don't
have a director time calendar at

1079
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,280
hand or they did it maybe years
ago and it's changed a bit and

1080
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,320
they have to rethink about it.
And just I can tell from this

1081
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,000
person who wrote in just
prompting the school to look at

1082
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,840
it.
If you've got reasonable SLT in

1083
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,840
the same way we talked about SLT
earlier that might not have been

1084
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,440
thinking about PPA, right.
And then when you talk about

1085
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:11,240
that.
Oh yeah, actually, of course,

1086
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:12,920
yeah, you can do it from home.
I just didn't think about it

1087
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,320
when you prompt them to think
about can I have the directed

1088
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,720
time calendar for the year?
They might actually go and be

1089
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:19,800
like, Oh yeah, I've looked at
that in a while.

1090
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,120
Look at it and realise that it
goes over and then make changes

1091
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,320
like this.
Staff meetings are now 320 to

1092
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,800
420, haven't previously finished
at 540 minutes.

1093
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,640
That's epic.
Yeah, that's so good.

1094
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,600
And and and if they don't want
to do it, if they say no, I'm

1095
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,080
not providing that, then this is
that then you then you know, in

1096
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,040
a different, it's a different.
Situation and then you need to

1097
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,120
add up yourself and then go with
them with the ending up.

1098
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,600
But yeah, the reason why it's
such a green flag policy is

1099
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,320
because if you have that
directed time calendar, it's

1100
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,640
more likely to have a knock on
effect on everything else.

1101
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,800
And I think just to be really
clear, directed time here, you

1102
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,520
know, teaching council's
directed time, so much of that

1103
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,880
1265 is taken up by literature
being in the room for kids.

1104
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,320
So where it's really, really
useful to have that directed

1105
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,080
time calendar is for everything
else.

1106
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,080
Like there's not much wiggle
room after that.

1107
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:04,840
So when you're being asked to do
an hour after school every week

1108
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,680
for staff training, and if
you're in a school where you

1109
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,480
also have a year group meeting,
that is forced upon you like you

1110
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,160
have to meet a year group.
After you've got a morning

1111
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,560
meeting on the Monday.
You got a morning meeting on

1112
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,400
Monday, you've got parents
evening, etcetera. 73 duties a

1113
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,600
week.
Right, This is where Director

1114
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,960
Tan colour is really important
because it's the kind of thing

1115
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,320
where if you've gone over, you
look at that and you go, let's

1116
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:25,520
drop the year group meeting
every year.

1117
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,720
I know, Of course it would be
good.

1118
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:28,920
Do you know what else would be
good?

1119
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,720
To meet the parents every every
day after school, of course.

1120
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:32,480
That would be great.
Yeah.

1121
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,600
Have a 1 to 1 chat of every
parent every single day.

1122
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,880
Wouldn't that be fantastic?
Yeah, but it being good isn't

1123
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,240
enough to justify going past my
contract.

1124
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:42,360
So if it goes past 1265, guess
what's being dropped?

1125
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:43,640
The year group meeting every
week.

1126
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,880
Because I tell you what, I
worked in a school after seven

1127
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,760
years, but we didn't do a year
group meeting at all ever after

1128
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,440
school and we found ways around
it and we still communicated

1129
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:52,800
with each other and we still got
stuff done.

1130
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,480
So, oh, we just have to do it.
No, we don't What we have to do

1131
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,680
for a green flag for a fantastic
school, They're very clear

1132
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,160
directed time calendar that
every staff can see and is

1133
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,160
transparent and is honest.
And if it goes over, they all

1134
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,000
work together to reduce it.
The very, very big green green

1135
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,280
flag for me.
Yeah, absolutely.

1136
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:11,640
Very easy one to implement as
well.

1137
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,320
So another one, I'm going to
read this one to you that I want

1138
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,680
you to digest it and think about
it as I read it from Tom.

1139
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,880
This is not a policy but more of
an ethos.

1140
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,440
We tell the children to turn up
and try your best.

1141
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,640
And this is the message I'm
trying to communicate with my

1142
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,480
staff.
So I was immediately interested

1143
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:25,720
because I think, oh, this is
from a leader.

1144
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,920
I want them to try new ideas, be
bothered about the children in

1145
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,800
their class and do their best
for them.

1146
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,600
Anything else that members of
staff put in is a bonus.

1147
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,760
Turn up, do the work, go home
and be with loved ones.

1148
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,840
That's it.
Some days we will go home and

1149
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,360
think about how we've absolutely
smashed it and some days we'll

1150
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,000
have we will have given it our
best shot.

1151
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,280
But Mr Mark, both are OK if our
best effort.

1152
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,440
One day it looks different to
another day due to illness,

1153
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:49,880
workload, worries or something
else.

1154
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,360
Whatever.
That's OK.

1155
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:57,280
How refreshing and lovely and
brilliant is it hearing a leader

1156
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,680
say something like this?
This I think definitely is an

1157
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,840
ethos thing and this kind of
runs.

1158
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,680
It's straight through everything
we talked about in terms of

1159
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,320
green flag policies and score.
This is where all of those green

1160
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,960
flag policies come from.
They come from a place of people

1161
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,560
in positions of power in schools
like Tom, who clearly really

1162
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,760
care not only about the kids but
about the staff as well at the

1163
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,880
score.
And I think when you have that,

1164
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,160
it's just such a nice, lovely
environment to be in.

1165
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,280
And that's when teaching's
amazing, is when you are looking

1166
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,720
out for the best interests of
your children in your class and

1167
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:33,920
you know for a fact that
leadership are looking out for

1168
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,320
you.
And I just think what Tom said

1169
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,520
here is perfect where it was the
end.

1170
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,320
If our best effort one day looks
different to another day, that's

1171
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,560
fine.
I think that's so true because I

1172
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,600
know for a fact I can give my
best every day for a week and

1173
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,080
I'll have different outcomes
every day and things will go

1174
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,600
well for one day and sometimes
they'll go badly another day and

1175
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,840
even my capacity will change.
And what is giving my best on a

1176
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,880
Friday?
For certain reasons, I might

1177
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,120
have had some bad news that
morning.

1178
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,360
My best is still good enough and
I don't need someone at my door

1179
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,360
saying why you do that.
No, this ethos is so nice and I

1180
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,080
love it when we treat staff with
the same understanding and the

1181
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,000
same high expectations still as
we do our children.

1182
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,320
I'd work for someone like Tom.
Absolutely.

1183
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,360
I've, I've always, always said
it and I'll keep saying it.

1184
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,720
I think schools and every, every
time I say it, it's like, oh,

1185
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:26,720
controversial, it's not.
School should put their staff

1186
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:29,160
first.
You need to treat your staff

1187
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:30,960
well because guess what?
It is a trickle down effect.

1188
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,400
Your staff are the people in
control of the children you care

1189
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,800
so much about.
So by thinking of it that way, I

1190
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,440
need to make this environment
amazing for my staff.

1191
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,600
I'm not saying don't think about
the children.

1192
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,960
Of course you could take that
and warp what I'm saying.

1193
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,680
I'm saying think about your
staff as much as you think about

1194
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,560
your children.
Put them in your mind straight

1195
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,000
away because if they are really
happy people, they will do

1196
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,880
amazing things with the kids
that you care so much about.

1197
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:54,800
It works in tandem.
Like what you basically what you

1198
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,520
said at the start of that it
shouldn't be.

1199
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,040
We only think about the kids and
then we try and negate some of

1200
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:00,320
the horrible effects that it has
on style.

1201
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,000
We want the kids to have all
this stuff.

1202
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,560
Staff are going to moan because
they've got to do all this.

1203
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,040
What can we do?
Oh, I should give them what this

1204
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:07,680
give them one well-being day,
but tell them we've still got to

1205
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,960
do all these 19 things.
It's the wrong way of thinking

1206
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,280
about it.
You shouldn't do it like that.

1207
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,040
So yeah, massive green flag
leaders who actually care have

1208
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,040
deep compassion for their staff.
And obviously, obviously by

1209
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,720
default they're pupils.
We know that bit.

1210
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:21,320
It's OK to say you can care
about your staff as well is

1211
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:22,920
really good.
So we had, we had another person

1212
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,840
write in in the same sort of
light about sort of the ethos

1213
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,480
and attitude I thought was
interesting because it was a bit

1214
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,520
more to like to the point about
things you can do.

1215
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,440
Jessica said.
Team building, nights out in

1216
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,000
day, team breakfast, verbal
feedback policy.

1217
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,080
You can see nodding along to
that one.

1218
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,280
These are just a few to name at
my school, single.

1219
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,200
It's a single form entry multi
Academy trust school and I'm a

1220
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,240
key stage one phase lead.
I thought the context was

1221
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:45,280
actually quite important because
I think sometimes people say, Oh

1222
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,920
yeah, you can do it in big
schools because you've got more

1223
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,160
leeway, you've got more staff to
put in these nice things.

1224
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,080
But actually this is a single
form entry school.

1225
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,000
This is a, you know, by
definition of smaller school.

1226
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,120
I know some of these things
aren't really related to that,

1227
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,880
but yeah, of course you can.
Of course, you can still do nice

1228
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,880
things in a smaller school even
when you have physically less

1229
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:01,360
staff.
I want to go through the three

1230
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,960
things she talked about because
it's just to name a few and

1231
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,440
they're all positive.
And I love these green flag

1232
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,200
policies where it's like it's
almost like an offer sometimes

1233
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,800
it being an offer is is a green
flag because you know, for

1234
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,800
example here team building
nights out, right?

1235
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,920
Yeah, it's an offer.
The school, the school are

1236
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,240
saying I'm organising this if
you want to do.

1237
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:21,640
This you have to go.
Yeah, exactly.

1238
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,360
This is what I mean.
It it, it can, it can like green

1239
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,000
flag.
Nice policies can become

1240
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,080
annoying when they're forced to
down you.

1241
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,560
So no, I want, I want to go.
I want to go and see my son that

1242
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:31,360
night.
Yeah, Yeah.

1243
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:32,680
No, put it in my dare, It's a
time calendar.

1244
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,360
Put it put team building nights
in my dare.

1245
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:35,880
It's a time calendar.
I'm there every time.

1246
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,840
It's so true.
Like, you know, like the the

1247
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,360
darts you can get like with the
augmented, that's what you're

1248
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,080
trying to do.
Yeah, absolutely.

1249
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,320
Put that in there.
My directed time.

1250
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,720
But yeah, I think it's it's the
offer of doing that inset day,

1251
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:48,480
team breakfast, just put a
spread on.

1252
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:49,760
Yeah.
Like you just just do it.

1253
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,920
Verbal feedback policy then is
where I'm saying sometimes a

1254
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,160
policy is just a policy.
It's not an offer, but it's

1255
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,280
still green flag because in
doing verbal feedback, you are

1256
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:00,920
saving your staff time.
You say no, do this.

1257
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:04,040
If someone wrote something in a
book once, do you know what it

1258
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:05,920
might be?
I actually say to them, don't do

1259
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:07,800
that, please.
And that might annoy some

1260
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,800
people.
So I do think there are

1261
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,240
sometimes where green flags can
be an offering.

1262
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:13,840
We're going to do this because
of that reason.

1263
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,960
Do it if you want to, but also
we are going to do this as a

1264
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,600
whole because it helps most
people out.

1265
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,600
Like systemic things almost like
you've got like the the token of

1266
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,000
appreciation ones show you that
I do care about you and I want

1267
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,760
you to make sure you're valued.
And then the ones that's like

1268
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,120
this is fundamentally going to
change how working at this

1269
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,480
place.
It is.

1270
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,200
And and the issue comes where
the kind of tokenistic ones are

1271
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,720
the only thing you do.
Yeah, that's where it becomes an

1272
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:38,760
issue because yeah, they're
offers.

1273
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,720
And you doing that night out
doesn't help me because I've got

1274
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:41,960
my child to go home and put to
bed.

1275
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,760
But you're using that then to
say, well, we did that night out

1276
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:45,880
guys, so can you do all this,
please?

1277
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,040
It's like that's not enough.
It can't be, can't be on its

1278
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,200
own.
So like, you know, we had other

1279
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,320
people mention Carl, Carl
messaging saying subsidised cake

1280
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,200
and biscuits in the staffing.
That's important.

1281
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,680
If you subsidised my whisper
golds in the classroom, in the

1282
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,080
staff room, I'm going to be
really happy like.

1283
00:49:58,080 --> 00:49:59,520
Cake and biscuits.
I'm not sure what falls under

1284
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,080
the category mate, I'm sorry.
You know, weekly shout outs in

1285
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,200
the staff newsletter, treats
during staff meetings, treats

1286
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,440
during parents evening.
All of these things are great

1287
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,400
and I don't want to degrade them
at all and I think they are part

1288
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,440
of the ethos.
Let's go back to what Tom said

1289
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,400
about an ethos That is part of
the ethos.

1290
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,880
However, if you just do those
tokenistic things, it doesn't

1291
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,000
make up for it.
That's why the Luday policy is

1292
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,440
so good we talked about earlier.
That's why the well-being Day is

1293
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,360
so important.
That's why PPA being as much as

1294
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:24,920
it can be in your school is
really important.

1295
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,240
All of these things stem from
that ethos.

1296
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,080
It will include tokenistic
things.

1297
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,640
Book me a yoga class if I want
it.

1298
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,560
I've always said forced yoga's
annoying, but I'm what I'm not

1299
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,280
saying is yoga's bad.
What I'm saying is when you say

1300
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,400
I've booked you yoga later,
you've got to come and therefore

1301
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:42,800
I've justified everything else
because I've done your

1302
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,240
well-being.
That's bad.

1303
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,000
It's it's so funny because it's
like, I thought you've made it

1304
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,160
so clear in my head now about
that, like separating it like

1305
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,080
that, because I'm like, yeah,
the yoga's not bad.

1306
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,560
It's great, but it doesn't solve
the systemic problem, which is

1307
00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:55,840
I'm marking for six hours every
night and that's the thing

1308
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,040
affecting my well-being.
Oh, well done.

1309
00:50:58,040 --> 00:50:59,520
You've put a plaster on my
well-being of yoga.

1310
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,720
But can we just let's why don't
we do both?

1311
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,840
You can offer me yoga and also
address the actual issue of my

1312
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,360
well-being, which is which is
the barking in this case.

1313
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,120
And then you've got a great, OK,
this school's come in.

1314
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,160
We're we're affected.
We're changing this with a a

1315
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,080
verbal, A verbal feedback market
policy.

1316
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:14,080
We're going to try that.
Thank you.

1317
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,000
That's really nice.
Oh, and and you're still

1318
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,360
supplying treats on the
staffing.

1319
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,440
That's really nice as well.
I feel so appreciated.

1320
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,320
I want to work at this place.
What a green flag.

1321
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,160
Schools are working.
Exactly.

1322
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:24,800
I think yeah, it comes down to
that.

1323
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,720
The systemic stuff and the, and
the bits where I like they're

1324
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:31,640
tokenistic, but they're nice.
It I want to just summarise this

1325
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,920
now, supportive SLT, supportive
SLT to me, if I'm working in a

1326
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,440
school and I've got supportive
SLT and it means everything.

1327
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,600
We talked about everything we
talked about parents evening

1328
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,720
nice things, literal policy.
You can umbrella all of that

1329
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:48,400
under supportive SLT.
And I think that for me is, is

1330
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,440
kind of the green flag.
Ultimate is when you know you're

1331
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,080
working for someone who cares
about you.

1332
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,400
I think it has such such an
impact and lots of these things

1333
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,800
stem from that and and that's
how I summarise it.

1334
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,320
Yeah, and thank you to all of
you out there that genuinely

1335
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:04,600
provide places of work like
that.

1336
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,040
And we know you exist and we
hear you.

1337
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:07,640
And that's why we wanted to do
this episode because you know

1338
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,280
what?
We're very aware that sometimes

1339
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,360
the clips that the clips from
our podcast that go viral are

1340
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,200
the ones we're moaning or
talking about something toxic

1341
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:14,920
because people can relate to
that and they have to feel the

1342
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,960
pain and they want to hear about
that or what's.

1343
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,760
Hayden what?
I just realised.

1344
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:19,840
What?
Not one of the clips from this

1345
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,600
episode's going to go viral.
Oh no.

1346
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,040
We're not even uploading them.
Guys do a podcast this week.

1347
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,080
Yeah, we did.
But Instagram killed and

1348
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,600
Instagram.
Killed it, yeah, but now we do

1349
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,120
appreciate you guys and thank
you for listening as.

1350
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,960
Well, thank you so much.
And if you've got this far into

1351
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:36,800
the episode, why not share this
with someone who find it useful?

1352
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,120
Leaves a review.
Hayden, you've had a bit of time

1353
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,560
to think about your your.
You know, I've asked you to say

1354
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:43,040
something.
Yeah.

1355
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:44,080
It's something really
interesting.

1356
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:44,960
I'm fine.
Everything.

1357
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,200
Well, I was.
Actually just laughing in my

1358
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,120
head there thinking you should
share this with someone who you

1359
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:49,840
know, does work in a toxic
school as a bit of a passive

1360
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:51,560
aggressive dig.
It's like, listen to it.

1361
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:53,200
And we're like, oh, you don't do
any of these things?

1362
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:54,320
How funny.
What a coincidence.

1363
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,480
There's our toxicity or or to A
to a leader who you know will

1364
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,160
think that this is Tosh
nonsense.

1365
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:00,880
It's rubbish.
There we go.

1366
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,320
How to make it negative?
Cheers guys.

1367
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:02,480
Bye.