Ep 90: 9 Things We Would Implement In Every School Immediately: Marking, Dress Codes & Play

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach

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Sleep Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden, OH.
One SEC.

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Sorry.
Phone's ringing.

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Hello.
Here we go.

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Scam hotline.
Oh, it is.

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It is.
Yeah.

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No problem.
You want Hayden?

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Yeah.
And I was following up from your

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scam from this week.
No problem here.

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You.
Go.

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We'll take.
Yeah, Sorry.

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Yeah, thanks.
Sorry, guys.

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Yeah, hi there.
Yeah, I did get scammed.

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Yes, Yes.
At phishing link.

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Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
No, I'm not 90.

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No, I'm actually a young person.
Did it anyway.

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Yeah.
Thanks.

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Thanks, Dylan.
Thanks.

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For bringing that up guys, jokes
aside, right, Hayden did

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actually get scammed this week
and I just wanted to very

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quickly summarise what happened
because genuinely right?

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I know I don't understand like
ageist or anything, but we're

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not like old age pensioners.
I'm not understanding how things

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work.
We do think, Oh well, we'd be

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able to spot someone trying to
scam us, but you did actually

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get scammed.
So like what?

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What?
Come on.

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Long story short, had a package
coming with DPD.

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Needed to change.
Needed to change something

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right?
Couldn't do it on the app so I I

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thought I'll just ring them.
Googled this is this is the

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first thing I googled.
DPD contact UK number or

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something like that and and
normally with Google the first

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thing that comes up is the
number.

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Right, so that now.
So I was like, OK, I'm used to

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that being the right thing at
the top anyway.

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Was it a number?
Was it a link?

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It was a.
It was a right.

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OK it was a link.
This is where my brain just

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wasn't braining.
So I clicked on the 1st and the

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second link was the same.
It was just like paid for and.

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They were sponsored.
Yeah, I.

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Didn't notice it was sponsored.
I didn't notice someone's paying

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to put it.
Sometimes, obviously, actual

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companies have.
Sponsored post as well.

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I know, I felt like such an
idiot so I clicked on this link.

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I was like oh there's the
number.

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Rang that number, someone said,
Oh yeah, I'll put you through to

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the right department, I've just
got to give you a different

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number to ring.
I was like, yeah, fine, standard

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stuff.
Companies ready?

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Get away with giving a premium
number, like not having it

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online but just redirect.
Yeah, literally.

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Yeah, literally.
It was clever because then the

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second one I rang said oh, £2.50
per minute, that's cool.

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And there's me thinking I just
need to get this done so it's

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fine. 6-7 minute, 8 minute call,
whatever it was in the end.

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Was he stalling?
He was stalling big time.

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And I just spent all like £25 on
this stupid phone call for you,

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for you later in the day to be
like Hayden.

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I think you've been scammed
about when I was explaining some

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of this.
Story And I thought Australia

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was like, oh good job it's
Hayden because if it was anyone

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else I'd feel awkward.
How do I bring up the fact that

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I think you've been completely
scammed because it was you?

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I was like you, idiot.
Yeah, literally scam.

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Such a such a mug.
But the fact is, like you said,

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like with older people in my
family and stuff, I'm constantly

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saying that be careful of that
text, that's not real.

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Be careful of that e-mail.
It might not be real unless they

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mean you.
It's not real.

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And there's me Googling a number
and playing £2.50 a minute.

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What was the link like XYZLMNO
p.co.uk forward slash DPD

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customer service dash customer,
dash customer?

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It was literally like
customer.service@dpd.com.

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So it was quite like, it was
quite real looking.

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But yeah, so be careful.
Be careful out there.

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Yeah, a lot of scammers.
Your bill this month has just.

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Yeah, my phone bill went
799-790-9799 thirty 2 lbs this

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month and I was like brilliant,
that's I've just given £25 to a

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scammer.
Oh my gosh.

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So yeah, pretty annoyed about
that for like.

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The time for the podcast, me
just winding.

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Yeah, winding me up, making me
feel like an idiot.

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Anyway, so yeah, that's my week.
Got scammed.

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Only thing that relevance
anything, nothing else is

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important.
To me, well, I want to talk

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about Spotify Rapt because
obviously he's been Spotify Rapt

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this week or last week,
depending when you're listening

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to this.
And I love the memes that kind

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of technomic out of people who
post Spotify Rapt.

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OK, I find them funny.
It's just funny.

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Like there's one that really
made me laugh and it was this

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like video of Messi when he just
won the World Cup, like taking

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it in like, Oh my God, I just
can't believe what's happened.

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The caption was when Spotify
Rapt tells you the artist you

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listen to most this year was the
artist used to most this year.

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Like it like it's information.
Yeah.

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Oh my God.
Taylor Swift was number one.

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It's like it's all used to all
year.

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Finding out Dylan does like the
killers.

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Yeah, every year the Killers are
in there somewhere.

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And Lin Manuel Miranda with
Hamilton every year always in

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there somewhere.
But what?

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You know, I do actually like
seeing other people's Spotify

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rapt.
It's interesting to me just to

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get into the head of, like, what
they listen to.

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Yeah, sure.
But as a creator now, because we

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upload this podcast through
Spotify for Creators and we're

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under that umbrella, you get
your own rapt information about

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people listening to your
podcasts and stuff.

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And I just wanted to say it
really does match up with what

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we've been like noticing from
messages and stuff and people

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listening because last year our
following went up by over 300%.

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Amazing.
Yeah, our listeners went up by

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about 170 hundred, 80%.
Yeah.

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And our streams went up by a
similar amount because streams

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are just like people actually
listen to whole episode, right?

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Right.
But yeah, it always like close

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to 200%, a huge amount of
following growth.

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And it just wanted to say thank
you basically to you guys who

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are listening right now.
And, and thank you to those

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people who've reached out and
messaged because you don't have

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to do that.
And it's so I can't explain how

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lovely it is when I open
Instagram and and sometimes they

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lost their requests.
So I don't see him for a few

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days.
Yeah, God, sorry.

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And you go in there and it's
just someone, you know, who's

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just honestly written like a
whole massive paragraph about

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how thank you for the podcast.
Someone said it's part of their

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Tuesday routine when they go to
the gym.

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Someone said they have a Monday
evening dog walk.

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And it's like.
That I'm really looking forward

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to an evening dog walk because I
can listen to the podcast and

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and I'm just like, Oh my God, we
are part of like thousands of

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people's.
Like routine.

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Didn't someone say that they
literally went and parked up

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because they just had to listen?
To like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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rather.
Than go I just like.

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That's so nice to me to think
that it makes me feel good.

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I think went to the seaside and
just listened and yeah.

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And what what's amazing for me
constantly is the amount of

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people who say it's had a
positive effect because like you

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said, and and today's episode,
you've clicked on this.

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We're talking about things we
change.

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When you talk about things you
change or things you think

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you're are broken, it's so easy
to kind of get into a spiral of

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people telling you you're being
negative.

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I don't do that.
But I think it helps us stay

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strong, doesn't it?
To talk about these things when

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people say no, no, these need to
be talked about.

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Do it in a positive way.
Talk about how we can make it

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better.
Yeah, yeah.

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Because we like something.
Solutions genuinely.

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Yeah.
So I I really appreciate it

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guys.
Basically, if you're a listener,

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messages, even if you've already
done it messages again, say

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hello.
I love, I love talking.

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To you guys, how where do they
message us still?

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Live, you can go to Instagram at
TCP podcast.

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I'll put a link down in the
description to this episode, but

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one other thing I wanted to talk
about before we moved on go on.

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It's from my week.
We've been we did a bit of

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writing.
We're doing Vajat Paul, my

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favourite book to do with the
children.

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Such a good book and the
children absolutely love it.

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And I always feel like there's
really good opportunities for

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quality description, quality
action, speech, dialogue between

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characters and things like that.
And it's really perfect for Year

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4 for that exact example,
because that's what you want

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really from Year 4 writing.
Yeah, of course, sentences that

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make sense, but a bit of action,
a bit of dialogue with speech

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marks, some description, some,
some ability to put some adverbs

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in there to move around, play
with the sentence structure.

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That's where we're at of Year 4
basically, and this week we just

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had a lesson where we've done a
lot of itty bitty stuff and I

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guess it's what I want to try
and talk about.

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I find it tricky sometimes with
writing kind of bridging that

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gap between I've got to teach
you how to use adverbs, how to

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use conjunctions, what they are,
and and literally teach you the

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building blocks to build a
sentence using these things.

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But I also want you to do
writing as much as possible and

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when you, when the children
aren't concentrating on how an

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adverb works and where it goes,
or particularly speech, because

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there's so much to remember of
speech, commas, punctuation

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marks at the end, capital
letters, blah, blah, blah.

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I really struggle with that like
bridge.

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So I just thought, you know
what, I, I want you just to do

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some independent writing today.
And so I generated a picture

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online of Var Jack in the city
with the cars whizzing past.

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The kids could immediately like
put what we've been reading to

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it.
So there's all the inspiration

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was there.
That cognitive load was taken

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away.
But I then felt like on the

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board, I just had like a
checklist of stuff that we've

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done in the last two weeks.
And I kind of just said to them,

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I want to see these things.
And I really struggle because I

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don't know if that's good or
bad.

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I don't want your opinion on
this is because they did some

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writing and the children who did
most of the stuff on the board,

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it was kind of incoherent when I
read it.

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It didn't really flow.
There was no there was no focus

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on the story.
You feel like we've lost that

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they've.
Just tried to so hard to put

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that thing in that you said.
Exactly.

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They're like they've done a
they've done a sentence with an

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adverb.
Yeah.

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And then the next one, they've
just done a sentence and put as

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at the end as a conjunction,
even though it doesn't

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necessarily make any sense to do
that.

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Then then the next one down,
they've just added a bit of

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speech randomly, even though I
literally said to them, don't

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worry about speech today, but
they've done it and they want to

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put it in.
Yeah.

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And this, this whole, I really
struggle with this attitude of

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I'm going to teach this thing
and then I need to see it.

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You're independent writing, so I
can take it off on an assessment

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and say you're great.
Yeah.

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I think, I think the whole
system sucks.

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I think since maybe 2014 I think
is when people start complaining

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like with Gov and all that.
I think that we have become like

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slowly obsessed with like
grammar, grammar terms and like

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and and seeing specific grammar
things in writing to make that

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and that means writing is good.
That's what I mean.

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Because honestly, I read this.
I'll be really honest, I read

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their writing and I thought I
could probably take off most of

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this stuff in the mood because
you're actually really good at

229
00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,559
it now, but the story was crap.
The.

230
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,960
Writing was crap.
It was, it was bad.

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00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,000
Like, yeah, I love my kids and
they did so well.

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00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:41,840
And then do you know what they
did?

233
00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,080
Exactly what I wanted them to
do.

234
00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,520
And of course, I said, this is
amazing because it's what I

235
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:46,840
said.
It's what I told them to do.

236
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:48,400
Yeah.
I'm giving them this structure

237
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,120
and this scaffold of how to
succeed, and they're doing it.

238
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,040
But I know deep down in the back
of my head is just like a person

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00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,600
who reads stuff and knows
writing.

240
00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:57,960
I'm just like, I find it gutting
that they don't.

241
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,680
I've not really fostered that
imagination or the idea of how a

242
00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:03,920
story works or it being, like I
said, coherent.

243
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,480
And I really struggle, we're all
teaching with writing because I

244
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,400
feel like I'm quite good at
teaching writing in terms of I'm

245
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,640
going to teach you how to use
this in your sentences.

246
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,440
And it, and it's beautiful when
you add information, it makes

247
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,840
sense.
But when it comes to a longer

248
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,320
piece, I, I, I, I don't think
it's very good.

249
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:19,840
Yeah, because.
There's a whole part of it it's

250
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,680
lost, isn't there?
Like you said, I feel I feel the

251
00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:22,720
same.
I feel like I'm good at teaching

252
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,480
GPS.
Honestly, I'm pretty good at

253
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,720
teaching a punctuation lesson
and getting the kids at the end

254
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,760
of it to write sentences that
have that piece of punctuation,

255
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,520
punctuation in it correctly.
But yeah, like you said, when it

256
00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,240
comes to bit of writing, but I
feel like I'm starting to turn

257
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,440
like change the way I teach now
quite a lot.

258
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,520
I'm really moving away from
those sentence level lessons

259
00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,440
where it's like today we're
doing noun phrases.

260
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:42,720
I've really stopped using that
language.

261
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,960
And I'm starting to do just
things like today we're looking

262
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,800
at how how this author creates
description in this paragraph.

263
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,000
And then and then, and then all
I'll be thinking is when I'm

264
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,840
modelling it, I say I do this.
I'm very much trying to do this.

265
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,120
Yeah, I'm not quite there yet,
but I'm really trying to do this

266
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,360
right.
I'm trying to honestly just stop

267
00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:58,920
using the grammar terms very
much at all.

268
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,320
And then just we'll play the
game when it comes to the GPS

269
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,440
test, honestly, we'll mention
those grammar times later, but

270
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,040
the moment it's like, I just
want a model writing that has

271
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,080
the thing in it.
Lots and lots and lots and lots

272
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,520
and lots.
And now you write a paragraph

273
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,680
and just hopefully, because
we've been modelling that

274
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:13,920
specific thing loads, they'll
naturally kind of do in their

275
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,760
writing, but it doesn't always
work.

276
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,600
Yeah, that works for some, but
not for others.

277
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:19,960
For example of noun phrases,
right.

278
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,840
I actually don't think you ever
need to explicitly teach noun

279
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,000
phrases in writing, because all
noun phrases are.

280
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,600
It's the script.
Describing now just.

281
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,680
Like you describe will naturally
do that when you describe like

282
00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:31,680
that will happen.
However, when it comes to like

283
00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:34,960
using a semi colon or when it
comes to honestly putting an

284
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,600
adverb at the front of a
sentence and stuff like that.

285
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,320
I get you could kind of take
away the fact it's an adverb,

286
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,720
but you have to really solidly
teach the structure of building

287
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,680
that sentence and when it comes
to speech, right?

288
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,280
OK, cool.
But I do need to teach you that

289
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,240
the reporting clause is here,
then the comma comes there, and

290
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,360
then this.
And I've got to really be bitty

291
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,120
with the the mechanics of it.
And I feel like that takes

292
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,040
precedent across the board
before actually, let's just

293
00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,080
write a really good piece of
writing.

294
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,160
What I'd like to see more of,
and maybe some schools do this

295
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,840
and I'd love to hear if you do,
is just some right.

296
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,600
This is what I tried to do, but
this is the point I'm making.

297
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,280
I tried to just give them a
prompt and, and just say just

298
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,160
write for me.
I had them on the board.

299
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,120
I wanted to see them because I
feel like that's what I've got

300
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:13,640
to do.
But what I said to the kids was

301
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,040
honestly, I want to see two
things in this writing.

302
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,520
I want to see action and
description.

303
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,520
And that's all I said to them.
I said I want to see action and

304
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,000
description.
I want you to describe where he

305
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,920
is, what he's, what's around him
and I want you to, I want him to

306
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,120
do something.
So some of them had some cool

307
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,040
ideas like Varjak jumped on top
of a car because the idea is he

308
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,280
wants to talk to a car.
He thinks they're dogs and he

309
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,960
needs to recruit a dog to help
him at home, and he thinks the

310
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,120
cars are dogs because they're
monsters, They're loud, they

311
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,040
growl and stuff like that.
So there's some really cool

312
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,840
ideas, but it's just lacking
that flow.

313
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,200
And maybe it's because they're
9.

314
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,600
Yeah, I'm going to say you've
got you've got to come into the

315
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,960
players.
I do feel like we've lost touch

316
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,480
with like age when it comes to
writing.

317
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,800
Like the end of year six
objectives, the end of year 6

318
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:54,440
levels is like, oh, perfect
writers.

319
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,480
Yeah.
Is that realistic?

320
00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:57,520
I'm a 10.
What do?

321
00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,800
They care about really.
Because I honestly like if I

322
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,120
read some of that writing.
My gut now as a teacher was, oh,

323
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,360
oh God, I wouldn't be able to
take anything off on that

324
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,120
assessment sheet.
They haven't quite done this in

325
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,120
to an extent.
And OK, even those who have,

326
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,880
they've lost the story.
Really, I should be able to as a

327
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,720
teacher sometimes just look at
writing and go, wow, that's,

328
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,720
that's a cool idea.
That's imaginative.

329
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,880
And I understand that this this
action led to this consequence

330
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,240
led to this action actual
building of a story without

331
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,880
being obsessed with or by the
end of year 4, I need to be able

332
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:28,720
to.
Preposition.

333
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:29,600
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.

334
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,120
I just really struggle with.
It can I say the best, the best

335
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,880
writing unit I've ever ever,
ever taught with my kids was

336
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:36,480
last year.
It was planned by my job.

337
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,480
Share Julie.
It's planned by me.

338
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:40,240
Yeah, it wasn't by me plan my
job share Julie.

339
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,560
It was it was like a whole weeks
unit right and it went totally

340
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:46,040
kind of off script what you
normally do.

341
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:47,320
It was really, really different
out there.

342
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,560
She actually spoke to she spent
so much time on, she spoke to

343
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:51,680
her friend who's a secondary
school English teacher and was

344
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:54,040
like, how did you guys do it?
Because I feel like we're not

345
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,800
nailing it in primary school.
Basically what you were saying

346
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,560
and her English and the English
teacher really helped her and it

347
00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,680
was, and do you know what?
We didn't do any of it in the

348
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:02,840
week on grammar terms, None of
it at all.

349
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,080
We spent the whole week looking
at loads of quality texts,

350
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,920
reading them, unpicking them.
Then we had sheets all around

351
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,960
the room and we were picking out
phrases and vocab, right.

352
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,640
We did a whole lesson on the
structure and how it makes you

353
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,160
feel as a reader.
And they're like, why did the

354
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,000
why did they do a one line
paragraph there?

355
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,800
What did it make you feel?
Did you notice they repeated

356
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,120
that word three times?
Why did they do that?

357
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:21,560
Do you think that should be
writing?

358
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:23,480
That's that's right.
Best writing I've ever seen in

359
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:24,960
my life.
And and we didn't even mention

360
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,000
now phrases we didn't mention.
Because you're absolutely right.

361
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,320
Because we had that training
recently about writing.

362
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,160
And the phrase that will stick
with me really strongly is the

363
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,080
text is the teacher.
Yeah, yeah.

364
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,840
So it's, it's where I think we
fall down massively in writing

365
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,320
is I'm stood at the front
modelling how to use a front of

366
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,680
the verb 4 times in a row.
Then they do it and they just

367
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,840
plunk one in because of the sake
of plunk one in, or they plunk

368
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,040
some parentheses in for the sake
of just adding extra

369
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,480
information.
Yeah, it needs to be completely

370
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:51,920
warped.
And I might be preaching to the

371
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,720
converted here.
Maybe I'm, I'm behind on my

372
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,640
writing teaching and this is
very normal, but I feel like

373
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,600
this is a widespread problem
where the assessment comes

374
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,720
before the actual process and
enjoyment and the act of writing

375
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,040
creativity almost.
Because what should children do?

376
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,440
Of course they should.
They should literally be magpie.

377
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,800
How on earth can we expect
children to come up with amazing

378
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:10,640
stuff?
They can't.

379
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,560
They're children.
What they should do is read

380
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,200
fantastic texts.
Like you said, the text is the

381
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,080
teacher.
So we're going to take from

382
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,920
this, we're going to use this
structure, we're going to change

383
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,080
who the characters are, but
you're going to build suspense

384
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,240
because you've read suspense
here.

385
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,280
Exactly.
And this is where my knowledge

386
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,280
is floundered.
Like I, if I wanted to build

387
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,320
suspense, I would not have a
clue where to start in terms of

388
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,240
there'll be people out there
right now who are going, Oh my

389
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,560
God, you have to use this book
for suspense in Chapter 7.

390
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,360
I just don't have that.
And I feel like there's a long

391
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,080
way to go to build that back up.
But I think what's holding us

392
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,440
back is the the curriculum and
the assessment profile of

393
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,680
writing that's holding us back
into being less good teachers at

394
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,760
writing because we can get
through a tick box at the end.

395
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,040
And it makes me sad.
I think we're suppressing

396
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,640
writers and I just don't like.
I've been to enough writing

397
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,440
moderations in year 6 to know
how depressing it is that

398
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,800
honestly the end game is there
is no one cares about the

399
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,760
creativity.
Genuinely, no one cares.

400
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,560
All it is you sit there with
your tick list and you go

401
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,920
through and you're just making
sure you can evidence all of the

402
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,040
grammar curriculum.
Honestly, yeah.

403
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,240
And the punctuation stuff and,
and a little bit of flow.

404
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,720
Like if it if it genuinely makes
absolutely no sense and they'd

405
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,080
start saying, OK, doesn't make
any sense though.

406
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,240
But on the whole, then no one,
really, no one really cares

407
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:25,760
about the flow.
Do you ever sit down and read

408
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,240
like a you've written in Essex
an amazing like shriller piece

409
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,680
where you're really building
suspense because someone's, you

410
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,840
know, walking along a creaky
floorboard goes and it's dark

411
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,000
and I've got to see something
run across?

412
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,520
No one cares about that.
No, it's just like, did you put

413
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,360
semi colon in there to join 2
clauses that quite.

414
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,520
Yeah, yeah, mate, I get that
that's important to understand.

415
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,440
I'm not degrading that.
I quite like teaching that.

416
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:46,440
Like you said, it's quite
formulaic.

417
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,120
It's like maths almost.
I don't.

418
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,840
I don't mind teaching it, but
what do I actually want from the

419
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,680
kids when I read their writing?
Really interesting, imaginative

420
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,320
writers who are making the
reader feel something.

421
00:15:58,320 --> 00:15:59,680
Yeah, I agree.
That's really all I care.

422
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,400
About and if a kid who was maybe
a bit lower ability in terms of

423
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,520
like all the grammar terms wrote
a little paragraph.

424
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,760
But it was really good in terms
of the structure of it and the

425
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,560
way it made you feel.
But every sentence started with

426
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,720
the there weren't really many
conjunctions in it.

427
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,400
It was quite basic in its form,
like in the structure.

428
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,600
No, sentence structure varies.
But it built tension because

429
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,000
they forced some nice words to
use.

430
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,360
They honestly, they they
wouldn't in this current system.

431
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,800
They just wouldn't get picked up
as a good writer as much as

432
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,240
someone who didn't, like you
said, like Vajic, poor stuff

433
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,880
didn't really have like much
flow to it or like the tension

434
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,040
didn't really build up.
But they've got very sentence

435
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,280
starters or they've used a range
of conjunctions that we've

436
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,920
taught recently and look at
those adjectives that that's an

437
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,280
expanded noun phrase.
Well done.

438
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,040
They've even tried to use
brackets in that sentence.

439
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,000
Take that off and it's like
doesn't even didn't in warrant

440
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,960
brackets in this.
Does it make any sense to use

441
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,840
brackets in this suspense
paragraph?

442
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,320
But that's the sad thing anyway.
We'll talk about this forever.

443
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:46,360
We should.
I mean, I'm sure we'll come back

444
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:47,880
around and do an episode on
writing at some point.

445
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,320
Absolutely.
I'll be very excited, too.

446
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:50,680
And.
But, yeah, that was my point,

447
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,640
basically, you know, as a
teacher, sometimes you sit there

448
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,000
and think, wow, we talk a lot
about success and like, I know

449
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,440
the right thing to do and this
is what we should do.

450
00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,040
We're going to talk about in a
minute actually what we think

451
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,120
the right thing is.
But I think it's really, really

452
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,280
important sometimes just to sit
there and go, do you know what?

453
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,520
I am struggling with this.
I really don't think it's

454
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,119
hitting the mark.
I wish it was completely

455
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,440
different.
Yeah, we're giving our kids good

456
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,200
curriculum, don't get me wrong,
and they're learning how to

457
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:14,520
write.
We're doing lots of writing.

458
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,839
I just feel like the scaffold
around it, the structure, the

459
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:21,599
purpose would be much better
suited to just being a bit

460
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:22,800
different.
Yeah, definitely.

461
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,720
Let's go on to our fixing, shall
we?

462
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,720
Or do you have a few things you
wanted to show me first?

463
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,200
Maybe we.
Could do I do yes, I want to do

464
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,280
a little session before we move
on and it and it's inspired by

465
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,440
last week when I mentioned that
we used to do riling up riling

466
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,440
you up back in the early days of
the podcast.

467
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,600
I've got a couple of screenshots
on my phone right have things on

468
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,040
Internet.
I'm not showing Dylan no, I

469
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,720
thought contacts.
I even said do you sure you

470
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,040
don't want to see him just
before He's like no live raw

471
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,840
reactions.
Yeah, well, you said, you said

472
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,480
to me, do you want to know like
Rafa so you can start thinking

473
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,000
it's like no.
So if there's a bit of silence

474
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,880
here, guys, I'm regretting my
this.

475
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,600
Yeah.
Now, there's three things,

476
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:55,240
right?
You've got a choice here.

477
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,240
You've actually got a bit of a
choice.

478
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,400
Two of them are just like, I
just saw them.

479
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,560
I thought, I've got to tell
Dylan this because he'll just

480
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:01,960
write them up.
One of them is.

481
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:04,320
I read it on a forum, and I've
seen this question loads of

482
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,960
times, and I still just have no
clue what the answer is.

483
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,440
I want your opinion.
Yeah.

484
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:08,480
All right.
OK, Let me find it first.

485
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,520
You don't know what the answer
is.

486
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:10,320
No.
I just don't know what.

487
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:11,760
I don't know what to.
I didn't comment on it because I

488
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:12,680
was like, I actually don't know
what.

489
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:12,880
This.
Wow.

490
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,040
He didn't comment on it.
I didn't.

491
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,480
Comment on it.
I didn't get people warrior.

492
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,120
So here we are.
Just basically in a nutshell,

493
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:21,400
because you know, I'll keep it
anonymous person said they got

494
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,720
sick, that's cool.
And they blamed it on their

495
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:24,600
class.
They said there's lots of

496
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,440
sickness bugs going around.
They ended up catching it as

497
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,520
well and we're off for a couple
of days and they missed their

498
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,160
PPA day and then they were back
in that week and they're

499
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,720
basically just saying should I
get my PPA back?

500
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,040
Because they still use the
lesson planning that they did

501
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,640
for that week and all the stuff
they've still got to do all

502
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,000
their planning, but they weren't
in on the day that they get PPA.

503
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,960
So should they get the PPA back?
And I've seen that question

504
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,120
loads of times and I genuinely,
I'm like, I don't know.

505
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:48,480
Yeah, yeah.
But do you have, what was your

506
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:49,400
opinion?
Because you might not know

507
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,200
either.
Well, my, my, OK, my, my, my

508
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,600
instincts, my gut instinct in my
opinion, are slightly different.

509
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:59,240
Yeah, my gut instinct is that is
unfortunate, but tough like,

510
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,880
like I, I'm what I'm saying is I
think it's normal.

511
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:05,800
If you're sick on your PPA day,
it's normal to not have it moved

512
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,040
around.
Let's say you're off for a week,

513
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,400
whatever it is.
Like you said, the amount of

514
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,440
planning you did hasn't changed
but you were sick on that day.

515
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,280
Sorry.
Like that's what I think it is.

516
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,040
I don't.
I don't know if it should be

517
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:20,240
that, but my opinion is right.
If your workload genuinely

518
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,840
literally hasn't changed, you
are being penalised for being

519
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,880
sick.
And instead of it will go down

520
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,720
as a sick day on Tuesday, let's
say, right?

521
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,760
But really all it's done is it's
moved that Tuesday work to

522
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,920
Sunday when you're feeling a bit
better because you don't need to

523
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,120
get it done.
For the PPA work.

524
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,200
Yeah, the PPA work so and the
work you would have done anyway

525
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,280
at the weekend outside.
So it's a really weird one

526
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,680
because, you know, in the real
world, if people are sick,

527
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,280
depending on their job, they do
have to catch up.

528
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,040
Yeah.
That's that is the reality of

529
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,120
it.
Like if you're sick, you have to

530
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:50,680
catch up.
If you're in an office and

531
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,720
you've got to work through 100
different, like claims or

532
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,080
something and you're off sick,
you've still got your 100

533
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:56,200
claims.
Someone else might be able to

534
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,120
pick up and help you a bit.
Yeah.

535
00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:58,560
Which is what happens anyway in
a school.

536
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,400
They help you have other ways
that you don't have marking and

537
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,080
stuff.
But at the end of the day, you

538
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:02,960
still need to get through your
list.

539
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:03,960
So you're gonna have to catch up
a bit.

540
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,120
Yeah.
I feel like it's one of those

541
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:06,760
things where it's like really
unfortunate, but.

542
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:08,720
The I don't know you have a leg
standard.

543
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,480
So it's quite funny you said
that because I haven't got them

544
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,520
on my phone, but I remember
reading the top two comments

545
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,360
where literally those two things
you just said, the first person

546
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:17,240
was like, no, just get like,
you, you are sick, just go over

547
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,160
it.
You're back in school now.

548
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,120
You can't, you can't help being
sick.

549
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:21,480
No one could plan for that.
It would be really chaotic.

550
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:22,760
Yeah.
If we had a system where it was

551
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,960
like, now someone's got to
suddenly find 10% PPA for you in

552
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,400
the week when it's not remotely
planned for.

553
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:26,880
Yeah.
Yeah.

554
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,920
And the other person was like,
no, you're absolutely, you're

555
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,480
entitled to 10% your teaching
time.

556
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,400
So whatever your whatever your
teaching time is, the rest of

557
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,480
that week, 10% of that should
now be your PPA.

558
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,200
But if if you're off all week,
do you not get any?

559
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,280
Yeah, that doesn't work, does
it?

560
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,480
Whole week.
Yeah, is that just cancel that?

561
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,400
No, just only feel planning.
So I don't know if that points

562
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,720
the best point.
No, my my opinion there is sick

563
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,000
pay is just slightly different.
You get paid to do nothing by

564
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,360
the way.
Yeah, like, I know, I know

565
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:51,040
you're sick, but you are still
getting paid so.

566
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,800
I'd love to know what the actual
like union advice is.

567
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,720
So if anyone knows anyone knows,
everyone's like, listen to this

568
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,040
thinking.
I know this answer because I've

569
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,280
been there and I've done it
like, well, yeah.

570
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:58,960
Spread it because then we can
say at the podcast more people

571
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,760
know it and then it's out there.
Yeah, genuinely, knowledge is

572
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:01,920
power.
Because some people, some people

573
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:02,920
just don't know stuff.
Yeah, we do.

574
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:03,680
Yeah.
So I thought that was

575
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,680
interesting, OK, Because
normally I feel like I know such

576
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,040
stuff, that one.
Got me.

577
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,920
Give me one other one and then
we'll go into the.

578
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,680
OK, one other one.
Yeah, we can go for it.

579
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,440
OK, this one's a good one.
OK, this will write you up.

580
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,840
In a staff meeting last night, I
was chastised for not staying to

581
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:18,560
help at the disco.
Oh.

582
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,880
For God's sake.
I was told it was an

583
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,800
expectation.
I've got a young child at home.

584
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,520
I literally just can't do it.
Can anyone clarify?

585
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,120
This is allowed.
It's after 6:00 PM.

586
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,840
No, obviously not right, unless
unless you at the start of the

587
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,560
year have a directed time
calendar.

588
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,680
You've all agreed that this is
part of directed time because

589
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,040
it's been taken from XYZI.
Think they made it quite clear

590
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,160
that was not was not the case.
If it's not the case, you don't

591
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,760
have to go.
Let them chastise you.

592
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,600
This is something I've learned
in education, right?

593
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,520
There are always going to be
people out there who do exist,

594
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,560
by the way, because we did a
post about martyrs and the

595
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,840
amount of people who commented
saying these people don't exist,

596
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:51,960
they're just trying to get the
job done.

597
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,000
So I'm telling you, I've met
these people that you've very

598
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,200
clearly defined as a martyr.
Yeah, they're martyrs at that

599
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:58,720
point.
Yeah.

600
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,720
If if they're saying to you it's
an expectation that you have to

601
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,160
come to the school disco in the
evening when you have a child at

602
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,760
home for your job.
Yeah, tell them to get stuffed.

603
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,240
Don't do that.
Just just just say to them, no,

604
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,600
sorry, I can't do that.
And then when they say it's an

605
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,480
expectation, say, OK, well, when
will I get this time back or how

606
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:16,920
much overtime will I be paid for
doing this?

607
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:17,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, you won't be.

608
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,960
It's it's a number.
Section 8 of the Teacher

609
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,640
standards.
Don't let anyone ever say that

610
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,080
to you.
Section 8 of the Teacher

611
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,400
Standards has nothing to do with
doing extra work outside of

612
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,240
school for free.
It's not about that.

613
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,160
Section 8 of the Teacher
Standards is about setting an

614
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,440
example in the wider, wider
school, presenting yourself in a

615
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,560
certain way.
And even if you want to go to

616
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,680
Section 2 of the Teacher
Standards about being outside of

617
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,800
school, still being respectful
and professional, read the

618
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,840
Teacher Standards.
There is absolutely nothing in

619
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,840
there about having to do discos.
Because I remember being a

620
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,840
student teacher and then saying,
why don't you do a school disco

621
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,160
tonight?
It'll take off teacher standard

622
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,400
8.
And I'd be like, yeah, sure,

623
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,000
I'll do that because they didn't
think twice about it.

624
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,240
No, no, read it.
You absolutely do not have to do

625
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,240
that.
People will be annoyed at you.

626
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:01,280
Here's something I've learned.
Sorry.

627
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,800
Here's something I'm getting
riled up the.

628
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,680
Session's working.
Here's something I've learned as

629
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,640
a teacher.
OK, setting boundaries will rub

630
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,520
some people up the wrong way,
and you setting yourself

631
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,640
boundaries is going to be
difficult if you also really

632
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,880
care what other people think
about you.

633
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,200
And really caring what your
colleagues and people think

634
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,760
about you is completely normal.
Don't feel like you're strange

635
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,040
or bad or weird for having
honesty, wanting that validation

636
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,920
from your peers.
That's completely normal human

637
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,760
response.
However, you at some point have

638
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,720
to decide would you rather feel
awkward because you don't?

639
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,440
You get a bit chastised from
your colleagues, but you have

640
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,080
your evening with your son.
Or does your colleagues opinion

641
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,800
matter more than spending the
hour with your child in the

642
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,720
evening?
Let's be honest, it's obvious

643
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,560
which one is the best option for
you.

644
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,080
Let them chastise you.
They're in the wrong.

645
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,200
Don't let these people control
your life just because you don't

646
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,840
quite like that they think
you're lazy.

647
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,360
You're not lazy.
Doing the bare minimum as a

648
00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:01,600
teacher is already someone who
is not inherently lazy.

649
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,400
It's insane.
I've heard people say this

650
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,480
before.
I've actually heard this before.

651
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,920
This is real.
A teacher saying to me that

652
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,960
person doesn't like working.
Yeah.

653
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,160
And this is a teacher who also
works in the school we work in

654
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,400
work shy while their work shy.
I'm like, OK, And I'm at the

655
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,560
point now where I say, well, no,
that's not true though, is it?

656
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,120
Because they do come in half 7
till 5:00 every day.

657
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,280
They're just saying no to the
stuff on top.

658
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,400
So let's not set the norm as
this much work.

659
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,040
It doesn't mean someone's work
shy.

660
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,360
It means someone sets boundaries
for their personal life.

661
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,640
Get over it.
And as the person setting the

662
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,600
boundaries, it's tough to set
boundaries.

663
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,320
You have to be able to accept
there will be people, no matter

664
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,240
how reasoned your arguments are
or how fair it is that you're

665
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,680
doing it, will not want to put
up with that and will make you

666
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,160
try and feel bad.
Try and make you feel bad.

667
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,680
Can you imagine a whole school
filled with people who actually

668
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,160
did set boundaries?
I wonder if that exists.

669
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,720
I wonder, I wonder if there must
be some schools in the UK, in

670
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,760
the UK where everyone has our
same, our opinions on genuine

671
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,440
and it's like we are really just
on it with our boundaries and

672
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:00,600
this is how our school operates
well.

673
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,320
Someone, someone's response to
this would be genuinely, well,

674
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:05,920
how can they just go around if
people don't do it?

675
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,320
And, and honestly, honestly, it
wouldn't probably.

676
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,640
But do you know what?
At what point?

677
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,040
Honest.
So yeah, do you honestly, yeah,

678
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,880
I'm sorry, I'm not I, I, I love
to do things for the kids

679
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:18,920
outside of school and stuff like
that.

680
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,480
And do you know what?
I might do it if it not, if it

681
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,000
benefits me, but if it suits my
timetable and I'm like, OK,

682
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,160
yeah, of course I'll do a little
something.

683
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,320
I used to go to the cross
countries on the weekends and

684
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:29,760
stuff like that.
And then we started doing

685
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,400
tutoring and we couldn't go to
cross country anymore because we

686
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,440
weren't getting any kind of pay
rise off the government.

687
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,840
So I thought, well, I'll bump my
pay was and tutoring then yeah,

688
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,640
that means I can't go to the
cross country or who's gonna do

689
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,520
the cross country?
I don't know pay me properly?

690
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,360
Someone else do it for free.
I'm doing something else now,

691
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:43,000
yeah.
Exactly that.

692
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,480
So just basically setting
boundaries is not is.

693
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,800
We're the first people to say
set boundaries, but it's not

694
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,760
easy.
No, you that will happen.

695
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,800
People will make you feel bad
for saying boundaries.

696
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,000
You have to try and ignore.
It most famous.

697
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,480
One last point on this is clubs,
isn't it?

698
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,520
How many people have we spoken
to over the years, even recently

699
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,360
where they're like, Oh yeah, my
school, everyone is literally

700
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:04,000
just peer pressured and bullied
into doing a club.

701
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,280
And if you don't, you're
ostracised.

702
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,280
Yeah, oh, don't do any work,
you're lazy.

703
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,120
And we, we all do clubs.
We actually do clubs for the

704
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:10,800
kids because we love the kids.
We actually like the kids.

705
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,320
And you really don't.
You don't like the kids?

706
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,360
We heard the story that we have
someone, you know, they they go

707
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:18,120
around the room and individually
ask people, Yeah, making the

708
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,120
person have to say no, I'm not
doing a club.

709
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,280
And then kind of like, OK, well,
you're not doing a club, even

710
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,360
though, you know, it's not
unacceptable.

711
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:27,160
You're just bullying, bullying,
intimidation.

712
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,200
It's tough to say no.
You've just got to do it.

713
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,320
Do you know I really want to
just be in AI want I wish I was

714
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,320
omnipotent and I could just go
to those places and then.

715
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:38,200
That's a new quote for the
podcast.

716
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:39,960
I wish.
I was omnipotent.

717
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,040
I wish I was right.
I want to be everywhere.

718
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,480
I want to suddenly be in that
star from when that's happening,

719
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,320
appear like, you know, maybe
some sort of genie and be like,

720
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,560
oh, toxic, you're bullying,
you're starving to doing this.

721
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,000
Poof, I'm gone again.
And they're all like, oh, it's

722
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,160
awkward now for that head
teacher.

723
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,560
Yeah, I love the idea of of
doing like staff meetings and

724
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,160
stuff like running CPD, right,
Yeah, yeah, maybe we'll do it at

725
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,200
some point in our future where
it's around like how to, you

726
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,800
know, break down these barriers
and help your staff, etcetera.

727
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,760
I love the idea of helping staff
being efficient in school, being

728
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,160
efficient in school, saying
saying no, etcetera, and just

729
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,160
completely calling out, like you
said, toxic people in school.

730
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,800
I I, I just stand at the front
now be like, God, some of you I

731
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,000
I bet, Can you imagine make.
And I know this is what they do.

732
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,000
I'd already get this off the
teachers beforehand and I'd be

733
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000
like, yeah, it's like when
schools make people do clubs and

734
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,040
they don't have to.
And you know what?

735
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,160
Happens and I know what happens
in that school and look at the

736
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,360
head teach, but you would never
do that right?

737
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:29,720
You would never just disrespect
someone's time and head teach

738
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,360
like sweating.
Yeah, I definitely would never

739
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:34,320
do that.
Problem is in a real world, they

740
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,080
just those people are
manipulative and they would

741
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,400
never book in the training
because I know in advance this

742
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,560
is a risk of, you know, the
power of control I have over

743
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,440
these people such a same way.
But yeah, people are going to be

744
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:44,720
annoyed at you for setting
boundaries.

745
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,600
You know what?
Put yourself first.

746
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:47,960
Set boundaries.
Thanks for your opinions there.

747
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,560
I enjoyed that.
Maybe next week we'll do a bit

748
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,720
more riling up for Dylan because
I've still got some stuff to

749
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,360
share with you.
Enjoyed that move on to the main

750
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:55,800
part of the episode.
God, we've actually got an

751
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:01,160
episode we plan.
Yeah, yeah, quite often when

752
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,240
you, like we just said, set
boundaries and talk about how

753
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,520
the systems broken or what's
annoying you, The big thing

754
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,520
people always say is, OK, well,
what's your solution?

755
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,880
And it you know, sometimes it
it's annoying.

756
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,080
People say it's like sometimes
something can just be broken.

757
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,400
OK, But do you know what?
It is important to bring a

758
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,080
solution to the table as well.
So what Hayden and I have done

759
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,120
is we've put together a list of
policies that we would

760
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:27,760
immediately introduce into a
school for various reasons, but

761
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,840
most of them being, you know,
well-being, workload, children,

762
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,080
even just just what we think
would improve a school

763
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,720
immediately and things that are
kind of what we feel widespread

764
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,160
and broken, how we think we can
kind of help.

765
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,280
That this is my favourite thing
by the way, because like how

766
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,240
many times on the podcast have I
said, oh, in my perfect school,

767
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,560
in my made-up school, I'm always
making up this school in my

768
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,640
head.
And now we get to like be like,

769
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,560
this is what we'd actually do.
So I'm really excited.

770
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,760
So let's do it.
And again, I would absolutely

771
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,560
love feedback on this.
I'd love people to say, guys,

772
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,080
that's not realistic because of
XYZ.

773
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,320
Or maybe they say John.
Yeah.

774
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,560
And also this let me know what
you would do if you were in just

775
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,000
dropped in charge of a school.
By the way, being a head teacher

776
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,840
in SRT is incredibly stressful
and there are some amazing

777
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,160
people out there where like him
really hard who feel like their

778
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,640
hands are tied.
They've got to get stuff done.

779
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:12,440
Some of that's passed on to
their staff.

780
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,120
And you know what?
It's not because they're a bad

781
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,520
person or toxic, it's because
the system is so horribly

782
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,560
broken.
So just a quick heads up, what

783
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,440
we've done here, if we haven't
said, oh, get more Tasmania in

784
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,440
because that's impossible, You
know, you need more money for

785
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:25,800
that.
Oh not don't do sounds more

786
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:26,560
money.
Yeah.

787
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,760
It's like these things aren't
things we could actually change.

788
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,320
Yeah, we've done 9 policies here
that we genuinely think you

789
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,440
could send this podcast to
someone who you're close to an

790
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,760
SLT or who you just know an SLT
and they could genuinely listen

791
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,160
to and think, well, maybe we'll
do this this and.

792
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,160
This.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

793
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:40,880
So, hey, don't wait to start us
off, OK?

794
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,560
First thing that we would do.
This is huge for me.

795
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:44,040
Yeah.
OK.

796
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:45,800
The dress policy?
Scrap it.

797
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,320
For children or for teachers?
For teachers, that's an

798
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,800
interesting point, actually,
we'll talk about in a minute.

799
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,200
But for teachers, get rid of
this.

800
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,720
I mean, if you saw your any of
Dylan's Instagram posts where he

801
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,040
gets annoyed about the clothes
he's wearing, you'll know that

802
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,320
we do not like the fact that we
have to wear shirt and trousers

803
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,080
and maybe even a tie in some
schools, Blazers, maybe in some

804
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,320
schools.
Who knows how crazy it goes.

805
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,800
Scrap the dress policy.
Go on.

806
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:05,720
You're more passionate about
this.

807
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,120
Talk about.
It Yeah, no, it's it's really

808
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,920
the reason I feel so strongly
about this is because I think

809
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,640
that the theme through this will
be, and this is something I want

810
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,920
to remind people of teachers are
professionals.

811
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,240
We are literally professionals
who have trained in this craft

812
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,680
who know ourselves.
We're not just some plebs who've

813
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,600
just been picked off off the
street to be teachers.

814
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,920
Honestly, honestly, we're not.
So when teachers feel a certain

815
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,040
way, it is valid and it annoys
when people from the top just

816
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,240
go, Oh no, it's just what we've
always done.

817
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,560
We can't do that.
So we can though, can't we?

818
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,640
And this is the number one thing
that comes to my head the most

819
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,600
when it's APE day in school,
where as teachers are allowed to

820
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,400
come in in PE uniform or P kit,
you know, just sportswear

821
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,800
basically for the day so we
don't have to get changed

822
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,400
awkwardly halfway through in the
toilet.

823
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,280
Like we can just just come in
your PE stuff.

824
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,720
On those days where I can come
in in my PE stuff, jogging

825
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,440
bottoms that are still not, you
know, not horribly informal.

826
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,680
Just like the nice sport jogging
bottoms, trainers, a T-shirt.

827
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,680
I teach better, comfy.
I I am a better teacher.

828
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,960
I'm comfy, I'm comfortable, I
don't look rough, I don't look

829
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,840
like some hooligan.
I just look like a person.

830
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,280
And what even is that brain?
What do you mean?

831
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,040
What do you even mean?
Look like a hooligan.

832
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,480
Yeah, exactly.
Like what?

833
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,000
Honestly, what can you wear that
this?

834
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,000
I'm teaching these children how
to AA number.

835
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,200
Does it matter?
I'm wearing a shirt for

836
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,640
goodness.
Sake, do they behave differently

837
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,560
on those days?
No Of.

838
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,000
Course no they don't.
Maybe right.

839
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,440
If initially we did this huge
massive change and the whole

840
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,800
staff suddenly are in
comfortable wear, the kids might

841
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,120
pick up on something
subliminally.

842
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,320
Oh no, have the same expected,
have the same.

843
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,520
Do your behaviour the exact
same.

844
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,680
The kids do not behave worse and
I teach better.

845
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,760
I this sounds ridiculous.
I feel more springy.

846
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,040
I feel like I'm ready because
I've got sportswear on.

847
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,320
And my point here is I'm going
to try and be as extreme as

848
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,960
possible.
In this case, my policy would be

849
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,240
that there is genuinely no
policy for what you.

850
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,280
Wear what you want.
I'm not going to question

851
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,720
remotely what you wear.
And the only asterisks on that

852
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,960
is you're a professional.
That's all I'd have to say to

853
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,640
people.
Wear what you want, but you're a

854
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,280
professional, you know.
Don't wear something horribly

855
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,120
revealing.
Are you telling me you'd trust

856
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,480
your professional teachers to
make a judgement on what clothes

857
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,520
they can wear literally in
public?

858
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,320
Literally.
Yeah.

859
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:19,360
Because they can't.
Because on the weekend,

860
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:20,240
obviously, they haven't.
They have.

861
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:21,200
No.
They need that structure.

862
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,320
They have no idea how to go out
and be in the public world.

863
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,880
And children absolutely can't
possibly respect anyone not in a

864
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,680
shirt and tie because they never
ever do that.

865
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,400
Ever do.
They didn't Like we take the

866
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,640
swimming on a Wednesday and
everyone's.

867
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,640
I couldn't possibly respect that
person because they were wearing

868
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,560
a polo that's not tucked in over
it like we are creating that in

869
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,440
school.
Like that idea of.

870
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,080
Well, no, you have to set an
example for the kids.

871
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,000
Yeah.
No, I don't.

872
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,440
No, I don't.
I'm setting an example of what a

873
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,320
teacher looks like because
you've made me look like this as

874
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,200
a teacher.
Yeah.

875
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,800
You know what?
If I wore sports clothes or

876
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,160
comfy wear, that would be the
new expectation of a teacher.

877
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,240
The kids respect wouldn't
dwindle.

878
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,560
The kids wouldn't suddenly not
know how to behave around other

879
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,280
adults.
You'd still teach them how to do

880
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,840
that.
At what point do you ever teach

881
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,240
your children to judge someone
on how they look?

882
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,240
It's the complete antithesis of
what we say is really important

883
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,560
to model to the children that
everyone's equal, treat them all

884
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:09,480
the same.
But not me.

885
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:10,520
By the way, I'm wearing a shirt
and tie.

886
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:11,560
Should they immediately respect
me?

887
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,040
I'm Mr This don't care.
OK, So what if then I'm trying

888
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,800
to be devil's advocate here and
think of like, the worst thing

889
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,000
that can happen, right?
You do this and genuinely,

890
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,360
you're ahead, right?
And your staff come in and you

891
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,680
actually look at them, think, Oh
my God, this is really bad that

892
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,920
they're all wearing massive
chains.

893
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,920
Yeah, they've all got like,
really long fake nails.

894
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,600
It's like totally impractical.
They're wearing 2 pairs of

895
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,800
sunglasses.
And because your policy is wear

896
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:34,760
what you want.
Yeah, sure.

897
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,160
Do you know what it's it's
number one.

898
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,160
I just think it's so
unrealistic.

899
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,160
It's not going to happen.
But that's my initial point.

900
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:41,640
Genuinely, it's like this just
won't happen.

901
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,480
But let's say there are a couple
because there might be a couple

902
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,680
of people like, oh, actually,
that isn't actually what I don't

903
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:47,520
know.
It's inappropriate.

904
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,560
It's inappropriate, right?
I would just get them on one

905
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,600
side and talk to them in the
same way, right?

906
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,960
There isn't a policy telling me
exactly what script I have to

907
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,280
say when I'm teaching.
I'm trusted as a professional to

908
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,640
deliver the English lesson.
If I was to say something really

909
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,080
inappropriate on a lesson, you
wouldn't go, oh God, I need to

910
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,080
give my teachers scripts on
exactly what to say every single

911
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,280
time they do anything.
No, you would take that person

912
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:07,800
to the side and talk to them
about being professional.

913
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,360
Say that's not acceptable,
obviously because of XYZ in the

914
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,639
same thing with the dress code.
Yeah, sorry.

915
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,840
Can I have a word quickly?
I know we can obviously what we

916
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,639
want, but this is inappropriate
because of that.

917
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,639
I hope you understand I'm not
going to obviously do a new

918
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,480
dress code because of it, but in
the future actually trying to

919
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,800
avoid.
Doing well, actually, there's no

920
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,000
policy in this.
I'm going to take this to the

921
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:26,639
unions.
How dare you?

922
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:27,600
How dare you tell me what I
should?

923
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,679
Yeah, OK, OK.
Well, I could introduce a

924
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:31,320
policy, couldn't I?
And I might do that then,

925
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,360
because it's very normal to do
that.

926
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,800
It's not against union code.
So join to introduce.

927
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,120
Policy is just that person.
This person must wear.

928
00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:39,639
But again, I just think that's
such an unrealist that it's

929
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:41,719
minute amount of people who
would do that.

930
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,480
I agree.
Yeah, that's my get rid of.

931
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,040
It yeah, I'm brought you know
what, I wasn't on your level of

932
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,960
this until we had this actual
conversation.

933
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,159
I was a bit more like now I
think there needs to be a line

934
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,679
and I think it should just be
something loose like smart

935
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:54,719
casual or.
Something like that.

936
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:55,600
That's so.
Vague.

937
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,120
Yeah.
And I would leave it vague, just

938
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,000
just vague enough because it,
you know, people can interpret

939
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,600
that how they want, but they're
always going to interpret it

940
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,560
some somewhere further than 00.
I don't know.

941
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,000
But you know, I think anyway,
yeah, I probably would, but I

942
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,880
actually think you're right.
I think we trust teachers for

943
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,200
loads of other things to do
right.

944
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,080
Like you said in the lesson,
yeah, we don't live in our

945
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,000
policies and everything single
thing they do ever.

946
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,440
We trust them because, oh,
you're a trained professional.

947
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,280
You know what's appropriate and
what's not appropriate.

948
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,840
We trust.
We trust teachers not to swear

949
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,360
genuinely.
We don't have a policy that says

950
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:21,920
these are the exact words you
can't say.

951
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,200
Like, come on, no one has that.
Yeah, we just go, oh, your

952
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,280
teachers.
Oh, you did three years of

953
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,640
training with of course you know
how you're supposed to speak to

954
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:28,480
kids and how you're not.
Supposed.

955
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,440
And if you don't, we'll sort it
out.

956
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,040
Yeah, so you.
Probably know how the dress as

957
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,200
well.
You know I'm not going to I'm

958
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,520
not going to rock up in my hot
pants.

959
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,640
Do you know what I mean?
Please do.

960
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:38,840
That's just what the podcast
maybe.

961
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,280
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm waiting right now.

962
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,000
You don't know you're listening
to this podcast.

963
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,440
Hated this dress completely.
Demerating yeah, likely you

964
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,600
can't see waist down on the
video, but yeah, no, good point.

965
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,160
Really, really good point.
I like it.

966
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,040
Scrap scrap the dress policy.
Stupid, stupid, archaic thing

967
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,320
that every school does just
because it's always been Yeah,

968
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,600
new point next.
Point #2 No formal observations.

969
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,440
Let me be really clear and say
it one more time very clearly

970
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,000
for you all, in case you're
getting annoyed for me straight

971
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,080
away.
No formal observations.

972
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,520
Let me describe what a formal
observation is.

973
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,760
Please do.
A formal observation is when

974
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,640
you're told 3 * a year that the
assistant head or the head

975
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,800
teacher and the subject lead
will come in and sit down in the

976
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,920
back of your lesson for 25
minutes and watch you teach and

977
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,480
pick up on all the tiny little
things that you do and it's

978
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,320
completely pointless.
It doesn't help at all.

979
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,800
Same thing, the theme.
We're professionals.

980
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,640
Sometimes we get things wrong,
sometimes we're not doing stuff

981
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,080
based on school policy because
sometimes our policy is wrong,

982
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,080
but sometimes we need to do
something we shouldn't be doing.

983
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,760
We need feedback.
Yes, we do formal observation,

984
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,200
no undue pressure, undue stress,
especially when they're rated.

985
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,240
Some schools still do this.
They still rate teachers.

986
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,320
Very rare now, but it used to
happen a lot and it just creates

987
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,280
this angst.
It creates it.

988
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,520
Do you know what formal
observations do in the when

989
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,880
they're done in the wrong way is
they create a as in them with

990
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,440
your teachers and your SLT,
we're on the ground teaching

991
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,840
everyday.
I resent you coming in and

992
00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,960
telling me that I'm doing this
thing wrong that I think is

993
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:01,920
insignificant.
But I can't argue with you

994
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,560
because you're my superior,
blah, blah, blah.

995
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,080
We should we still should get
feedback.

996
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,680
And my point here is we still
still should be able to have

997
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,000
adults in our room.
My point here is no formal

998
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,680
observations, but drop
insurance.

999
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,360
Hello.
How you doing?

1000
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,440
How can I help you?
Support.

1001
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:22,000
Daily should be the norm.
Yeah.

1002
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,440
And and when you see SLT walking
into your room, you know, it's

1003
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,360
not a formal observation.
What you know is.

1004
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,400
Good morning.
Yeah.

1005
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:29,280
Good morning.
How are you?

1006
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,160
That might be it.
One day walk for the classroom

1007
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:33,560
just like.
Our school does this really

1008
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,280
well.
I'm a big up school because you

1009
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:36,800
know what our SLT do walk in
quite a lot.

1010
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,200
Even just thinking 2 days ago
deputy head came in and I and I

1011
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,720
no single part of me thought
always coming in to check on

1012
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:45,680
what I'm doing.
I thought he's probably coming

1013
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:46,680
to see.
And he might have been.

1014
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,560
It might have been which?
I didn't think it which.

1015
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:49,720
Is fine, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I didn't.

1016
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:50,600
I didn't think it.
I thought, I don't.

1017
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:51,720
He's probably just checking on
the kid.

1018
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,600
Maybe there's been a concern.
Maybe there's something's

1019
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:54,360
happened.
Maybe it's maybe.

1020
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,360
Do you know what?
Maybe he's just making himself

1021
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,600
known so the kids know all
deputy head walks around and.

1022
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,120
I'll tell you what, our children
have an amazing relationship

1023
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:02,240
with the head and the deputy
head.

1024
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,360
Yeah.
And it's because of that.

1025
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:04,840
It's because of that
relationship that they build by

1026
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,120
being in the room a lot.
You know, the children know who

1027
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,240
they are.
They're not.

1028
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:09,200
You know that.
Yeah.

1029
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,920
They can be disciplined.
Yeah, by them.

1030
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,720
But do you know what, 95% of the
time it's them bigging them up

1031
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:14,840
and just build a relationship
with them.

1032
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,920
And my point here is it should
be just about support for the

1033
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,600
staff.
There are some staff who need

1034
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,680
feedback and support and there
are some staff, let's be honest,

1035
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,720
who are doing the wrong thing,
or let's phrase it could be

1036
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:30,040
doing a better thing.
The the answer to that is not

1037
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,040
sat down formally going for a
tick list and saying, well,

1038
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,200
actually, you know, this person
used this wrong colour pen and

1039
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:35,840
then this person didn't quite
underline their date.

1040
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,080
And by the way, pointless, get
in the bin.

1041
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,560
Don't care, don't don't talk to
professor, get out.

1042
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:44,960
Do you think honestly that a
professional, do you think, do

1043
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,920
you think I care that the kids
have written in a slightly

1044
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,920
different pen?
Maybe some professionals do and

1045
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,880
it's at the top of their
priority list and they really

1046
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,400
are hot on that.
For me, it's lower on my list.

1047
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,480
I'm afraid you sat there telling
me.

1048
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,040
I know you're.
Oh, some of your kids do really

1049
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,320
wonky margins.
I know.

1050
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:00,720
Yeah, I know.
I know that.

1051
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,720
But do you know what?
I'm not going to spend 5 minutes

1052
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:04,680
every day doing it myself.
I'm not going to stop my

1053
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,000
learning because they're what?
Their margins a bit wonky.

1054
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,560
I'm going to get on to how to AA
number.

1055
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:09,600
OK.
Did you see?

1056
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,400
They could double the number or
I could, but then the line went

1057
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,800
through that number and now I
can't.

1058
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:15,800
Yeah.
No, they can Stop.

1059
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:16,560
Stop it.
Yeah.

1060
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,960
Give me support.
Give me help.

1061
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,720
Ask how I am.
Give me feedback.

1062
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:21,920
Please do.
Yeah, please give me support.

1063
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,640
We've had training.
That's amazing.

1064
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,560
Cool, I want help.
What I don't need is someone sat

1065
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,640
there with a clipboard judging
and it and it just creating this

1066
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,280
oh God I've got an observation
next week.

1067
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,160
I better spend 3 hours planning
it and then Oh no, the rest of

1068
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,000
my week will be worse.
But that's fine because the

1069
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,040
observation has to go.
Well.

1070
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,640
What a horrible outcome from an
informal observation.

1071
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,080
When the observation I'm being
observed on Thursday.

1072
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,080
I put all my time into making
this lesson amazing.

1073
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,320
God, I'd just do 2 minutes on
the other lessons though.

1074
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,160
That's not better for the kids.
Who's that?

1075
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,400
Mental thought and and often
ends in tears.

1076
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,120
Do you know what the amount of
teachers I know of who ended up

1077
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,440
in tears based on this?
This ridiculous feedback?

1078
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,280
Ridiculous system?
Quick question before we move on

1079
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,840
to the next one, what would be
your opinion on doing neither?

1080
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,560
As in no formal observations and
no drop insurance either?

1081
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:03,600
It's just we just trust our
teachers.

1082
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,440
Crack on.
So what's your opinion?

1083
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,040
This to me is under the same
bracket as when people say get

1084
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,560
rid of Ofsted, get rid of
Ofsted, trust your teachers.

1085
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,400
I'm like, all of this sounds
fantastic.

1086
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,880
It's not realistic.
No, OK, it's not realistic.

1087
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,880
I did not say don't give
teachers feedback.

1088
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:23,960
Don't tell teachers what they
need to improve.

1089
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,520
Don't tell teachers.
By the way, this can involve

1090
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,600
just praising your teachers for
the sake of it.

1091
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:29,840
This is a big thing I want to
say.

1092
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:33,000
No formal observations.
Go in and give feedback.

1093
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:37,480
Go in and say good morning.
Go in and say isn't your teacher

1094
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,920
an amazing maths teacher?
Yeah, yeah.

1095
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,400
Do you know what?
I just want to big up again.

1096
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,360
I came, I came from a school
that was unbelievably, horribly

1097
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,520
toxic that you know, that school
we talked about where they just

1098
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,320
bullied staff out and people
just got 30 year careers.

1099
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,160
Never, ever, ever got a.
Compliment honestly horrendous

1100
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,640
school to work in, horrible
environment, horrible SLT,

1101
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,200
genuinely horrible people and
they would literally go out of

1102
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,640
their way to make you feel bad,
make you cry.

1103
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,920
They've made so many staff cry
like I've there's times where I

1104
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,760
felt like that, right.
And then after, after coming

1105
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,120
from that environment to a
normal place, right?

1106
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,800
With actual nice human beings
running the school.

1107
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,320
Yeah.
Where I had my first observation

1108
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,040
right.
Now, bear in mind, I was, but I

1109
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,920
was very angsty.
I put so much work into the

1110
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,280
observation.
I like left the plan on the

1111
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,720
side, didn't even pick it up.
Blooms Taxonomy at the end.

1112
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,080
I literally did.
I literally did.

1113
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,720
I had that at the end.
I had Blooms Taxonomy.

1114
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:21,960
I'm not even joking.
I had that.

1115
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,280
I think that's probably in your
brain.

1116
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:24,800
From that time didn't.
It didn't pick it up.

1117
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,200
I think he was a bit like, why
have you done that?

1118
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,480
Like he didn't spend last night
doing that, did you?

1119
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,320
And at the end, right, the
feedback was when he was when I

1120
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,240
had teacher, he was going around
because the caretaker was off.

1121
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:35,600
He was doing this and he came
around like he was in his

1122
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,160
T-shirt and he had a bin over
his shoulder and he went, oh,

1123
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,800
whilst you're there actually,
yeah.

1124
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,360
Bloody good lesson today.
He was, I was really, really,

1125
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,760
really good and just listed off
just a couple of positive

1126
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,400
things.
So yeah, thanks for that mate.

1127
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:49,520
Thank you.
You're brilliant, teacher.

1128
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,920
And then walked off.
I'm sweating thinking OK, OK,

1129
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,280
cool.
Now let's get to the bit where

1130
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,240
you tell me I'm terrible, you
know, because obviously you got.

1131
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:56,440
You're buttering me up, you're
back me up.

1132
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,040
You give me 7 things that I'm
not doing.

1133
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,240
Properly so that you can justify
not giving me a pay rise.

1134
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,480
There's much yet next year.
And and I was like, Oh yeah,

1135
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,280
that that place I came from was
horrible.

1136
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,880
And actually this is this should
be normal.

1137
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,200
This this is what it should be
like.

1138
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,880
Just you can't just give praise.
You don't have to be like

1139
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,520
there's not always feedback
anyway, so I went off on a rant,

1140
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:14,160
no.
No, it's good.

1141
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,520
It's you're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right.

1142
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,720
Let's.
Go to #3 OK #3 So this is, I

1143
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:19,680
guess you're passionate about
this.

1144
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,440
Yeah, I didn't really explain to
you when I was talking about

1145
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,520
this, but so rebalancing the
curriculum, I would, I would

1146
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,000
just this is maybe a bit more
wishy washy, but I am actually.

1147
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,240
Trying to be specific on what
would.

1148
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,120
You do.
I am getting a bit sick of maths

1149
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,360
and English taking up so much
time of the week to the point

1150
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,400
where we're always like oh, how
do we fit in all these other

1151
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,760
subjects?
How do we fit in all these other

1152
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,040
subjects?
Completely ignoring the fact

1153
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,320
that we spend so much time in
maths English.

1154
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,720
You know what?
Cut maths in half then, right?

1155
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:43,600
Maybe not in half.
Yeah.

1156
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,000
Cut a little bit of maths off.
You know what?

1157
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,200
Do 4 maths lessons a week.
I really genuinely believe that

1158
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,920
there is, there is space for
doing that.

1159
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,200
I honestly, I'd love to just
shake up the curriculum in the

1160
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,880
school and get rid of this norm,
which is like 5 maths lessons, 5

1161
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,160
English lessons.
It takes up 70% of your week.

1162
00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:58,600
Yeah.
No.

1163
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,560
OK, do you know what?
No, I'm scrapping an English

1164
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:01,880
lesson a week.
Get over it.

1165
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,960
You know what?
We'll do writing and reading in

1166
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,440
history.
Yeah, and we're going to do it.

1167
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:06,520
We're going to get into some
more.

1168
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,040
We're going to do, we're going
to do something fun.

1169
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,520
I just feel like fun.
Like I want kids to you know

1170
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,920
what, you know what everyone
knows, what opinions on podcast

1171
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,560
about primary school is to get
kids engaged with subjects

1172
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,320
honestly and then then go to
secondary school and actually

1173
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,840
learn difficulties.
Can I push back on it a bit?

1174
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,280
Go on.
I completely agree with what

1175
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:22,880
you're saying about having fun
in primary school and stuff,

1176
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,160
especially with the other, the,
the core subjects on there, the

1177
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,160
foundation subjects.
Sorry.

1178
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,840
Yeah, I get, I completely, I, I
agree with you completely.

1179
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,960
And I do think there is scope to
reduce stuff, right?

1180
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,440
Yeah.
But we, we, we frame this as

1181
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,280
realistic advice, realistic
policy.

1182
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,000
I'm just going to say it now,
there's only one reason that

1183
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,400
happens.
It's because of SAS data and

1184
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:40,680
it's because of league tables
and stuff.

1185
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,360
So my genuine question to you
is, would you still do this?

1186
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,480
Yeah.
OK, I really I I could because

1187
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,080
part of me also you.
Think it wouldn't affect?

1188
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,200
It I don't think it'd affect
right?

1189
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,800
I think it'd be positive, right.
I think we are caught in such a

1190
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,520
trap in this country and it is
it is government top down of

1191
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:59,080
more is better yeah.
If you do more maths, they'll

1192
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,440
learn more and I just think
there is a cap yes.

1193
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,720
I feel like this, I don't want
to, I don't know the research.

1194
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,880
I feel like I've seen things
that are pointed towards

1195
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,320
research before.
That's like, oh actually there

1196
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,000
is a point where if you do any
more it actually just overloads

1197
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,320
them and they don't remember all
the other stuff.

1198
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,000
You get a surface level
knowledge of everything and they

1199
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,360
don't really learn anything.
And it's like, you know what I

1200
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,640
reckon, I genuinely reckon I'm
going to put myself out here

1201
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,520
right now.
If you gave me 3 maths lessons a

1202
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,800
week rather than 5I reckon I
could get my kids to the same

1203
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,040
point at the end of the year,
the same point.

1204
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,360
I genuinely think the same.
Kids to the same.

1205
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:29,560
Point same kids to the same
point.

1206
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:30,800
I really really really think
that.

1207
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,840
I honestly think we could have
two 2 maths 2 lessons where we

1208
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,760
just don't do any more maths.
And just for contact with anyone

1209
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,560
who might be a new listener.
By the way, just so before we

1210
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,960
carry on, you, you are maths
lead, yeah, You're not someone

1211
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,480
here like.
Yeah, and I'm teaching you.

1212
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:41,480
I've taught me 6 for loads of
you.

1213
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,360
I know what the Sats are like.
I know what it's like prepping

1214
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,520
for kids for the Sats.
I genuinely wholeheartedly

1215
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,000
believe that if I had three
maths lessons instead of five

1216
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,000
per week, I'd reshuffle how I do
things.

1217
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,520
I'd I'd rethink my long term
plans.

1218
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,320
I meet them term plans.
But I reckon I could get a kiss

1219
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,480
to the same point.
Yeah, honestly, that's really

1220
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,120
interesting.
I think so much, I think so much

1221
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:58,200
time is wasted.
I really do.

1222
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,360
And and and so much time is
like, oh, the kids are

1223
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:01,440
completely exhausted and
knackered.

1224
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,360
Let's do more of it then.
Okay, well do you know what, I'm

1225
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,000
gonna move straight to the next
one 'cause it's linked.

1226
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,600
Okay, okay, so we're still in
the same discussion here.

1227
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,640
The next thing that we'd
introduced cuz we're doing this

1228
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,240
as a force.
You can tell probably some of us

1229
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:14,360
have stronger feelings about
what?

1230
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,760
Yeah yeah, but I am 100% behind
this next so am I is completely

1231
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,840
banning interventions during
other lessons within lesson

1232
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,600
time.
So context, what happens in a

1233
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,280
lot of schools completely
normal, by the way, not digging

1234
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:29,800
anyone out who does this.
It's.

1235
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:30,240
Normal.
Yeah.

1236
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:31,600
I can't imagine any schools
don't do that.

1237
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,200
Exactly that.
But how many times have you as a

1238
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,080
teacher, been stood in the front
of your car?

1239
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,800
You've spent hours planning this
lesson.

1240
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,520
Oh my gosh, it's a really cool
geography lesson for these.

1241
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,480
Kids Geographies.
Oh yeah, I was doing it.

1242
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,520
It's a lovely latitude lesson.
I can't wait.

1243
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:44,760
I know, but you've got really
engaged in it.

1244
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:45,880
You've got your kids.
You want to teach them.

1245
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,880
It's the only time these kids
might do ICT, let's say.

1246
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:51,240
Yeah.
OK, let's say there's one time a

1247
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:52,560
week 1.
I'm not a slot where they do ICT

1248
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,680
and there is this kid who loves
ICT so much is their thing.

1249
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:56,520
So.
Oh my God.

1250
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,080
I've done five hours of maths.
I've earned this. 40 minutes of

1251
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:00,200
ICT.
You can't wait to do it.

1252
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:01,760
Knock on the door.
Knock, knock, knock.

1253
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:02,040
Hi.
Yeah.

1254
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:03,920
Can I have this, this, this,
this, this and this kid, please?

1255
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,320
I've got an English booster to
do with them.

1256
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,960
Devastated.
I've seen children crying,

1257
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:14,000
crying with sadness because I
had to take them out of a group

1258
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:15,600
to do a group.
I had to take them out of a

1259
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,760
lesson they loved because they
had to come and do some maths

1260
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,160
with me.
Again, Full disclosure, where

1261
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,800
maths leads.
OK, I hate it.

1262
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,560
Yeah, I hate it with a passion.
And it's almost like the cap

1263
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,760
you're talking about it.
There is there.

1264
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,760
There is room for intervention.
I I know that.

1265
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,400
I know interventions.
Same day.

1266
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:35,440
Particularly, I think it's
quite.

1267
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,080
Good.
I've done interventions before

1268
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,600
where there has been a tangible
increase in the child's ability

1269
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,640
to do something.
But you know what also happened

1270
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,760
to that child?
They didn't get any ICT for that

1271
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,800
time, so their ICT dipped.
OK, at what point did we say

1272
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,720
that's fine because it's maths?
At what point do we say no guys,

1273
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,720
stop it, they're going to get to
where they get to.

1274
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,120
It's OK.
It's So what if their arithmetic

1275
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,400
score was 6 marks there?
Honestly, So what?

1276
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,760
Who cares if an 8 year old on an
arithmetic test get 28 or 36?

1277
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,720
I don't care.
And that's 8 marks, so you

1278
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:09,600
should be doing the
intervention.

1279
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,080
No, I don't care.
If, if the cost was that child

1280
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:14,640
didn't do ICT for the time,
yeah.

1281
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,720
Or was pulled out of PE or
didn't do any, any subject you

1282
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:21,400
can even think of because we'd
never pull them out of maths to

1283
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,160
do maths.
Yeah, we'd never put sorry.

1284
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,280
We'd never pull them out of
English to do history.

1285
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Would we?

1286
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,080
Of course we would.
We could be like no, of course

1287
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:29,760
not have to do history.
They they have to do their

1288
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,760
history as well as whether.
It's about the holistic

1289
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,080
approaches, and that's what
we're talking about here.

1290
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,560
There's a holistic, we're losing
the sense of holistic approach

1291
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,560
that primary school is about
everything.

1292
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,960
It's about exposure to
everything and getting kids

1293
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,640
inspired to learn.
Right.

1294
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,080
And we don't do that when we,
when we constantly take them out

1295
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,160
of subjects they love to do more
subjects they hate.

1296
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,280
Because, by the way, most kids
that aren't very good at stuff

1297
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,320
don't like the subject.
That is the catch 22.

1298
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,600
You generally don't like things
as much if you don't feel like

1299
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,800
you're very good at them.
So to be brought out after five

1300
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,520
hours of doing it in the week,
we're going to do more of this.

1301
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,720
By the way, you know, you didn't
get it in five hours of specific

1302
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:00,080
teaching.
I'm going to take you out for 20

1303
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,880
minutes and lose them more.
It's like, oh, OK, brilliant.

1304
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:02,720
That's what I needed.
Yeah.

1305
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:08,080
But it's it's like every week
you get 5 hours of maths and 40

1306
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,760
minutes of ICT or you get 5
hours and 40 minutes of mass and

1307
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,400
no ICT.
Yeah, who are we on?

1308
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:16,480
Paper.
Like, look at that now.

1309
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,560
Are you joking?
Yeah, I agree.

1310
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,160
Are you joking?
Can I give another perspective

1311
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,520
to this?
Because that was very child

1312
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:22,640
centred and that's where it
should be.

1313
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,440
I'm going to take a bit more of
a bit more of a selfish.

1314
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,720
Perspective as well, not you.
Shut up, shut up.

1315
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:29,440
I got scammed.
Leave me alone.

1316
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:32,600
Child got scam you.
Can't be mean to me.

1317
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,600
Hi, Yeah, this is the mass
booster hotline.

1318
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,240
You have to come out of ICT, I'm
afraid.

1319
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,680
Yeah, it's a.
God's sake.

1320
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,520
Ridiculous anyway, right?
From a selfish point of view, I

1321
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,800
am, you know, I said, losing the
world to live as a teacher if

1322
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:45,400
you ever.
Go Yeah.

1323
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,360
I am losing the world to live as
a teacher When I, when I, like

1324
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,360
you said, I've spent ages
planning a lesson and it's two

1325
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:52,520
hours long.
I've got to deliver it.

1326
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,120
I've got all the sheets ready.
I've got everything ready.

1327
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:55,880
You know people can.
Differentiate to the tempt.

1328
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:57,480
Differentiate so many different
children.

1329
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,080
Yeah, exactly.
So many children in my class.

1330
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,600
I've really put extra work in
for those, those children at the

1331
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,760
kind of lowest ability in my
class because I want, I want

1332
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,200
them to, yeah, absolutely 'cause
I want them to enjoy the subject

1333
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,800
as well and achieve something.
Oh, every single lesson,

1334
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,480
specifically during the input of
it, they're gonna be taken out

1335
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:12,880
to do more maths, which they
can't do as well.

1336
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,680
Okay, are brilliant.
When are they gonna come back

1337
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,160
in?
Oh, just as you start the task

1338
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,000
also, they're not going to know
anything.

1339
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:19,920
And then I have to work with
them.

1340
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,400
OK, brilliant.
So what do you know?

1341
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,800
I'm, I'm, I'm at the point where
I said to a teacher every day.

1342
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,480
And then, and I know I'm just
being like exaggerating.

1343
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,120
I literally said I'm going to
stop teaching in the afternoon

1344
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,600
and we're just going to watch
YouTube and have some fun

1345
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:31,560
because I am sick of teaching
lessons and having kids pulled

1346
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,080
out every 3 seconds.
Yeah, that that literally are

1347
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,840
the ones that need to be in
there here the most.

1348
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,440
Sure.
And it just drives me absolutely

1349
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:39,560
mental.
That's that's the problem.

1350
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:40,960
It's the children who have to be
in that.

1351
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:42,640
And you know what, I just want
to say I don't blame the, I

1352
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,840
don't blame the.
I take kids out for.

1353
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,320
I don't want to do the group.
I take them out.

1354
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,120
I'm not blaming anyone at my
school or any other school that

1355
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,440
has to do it.
It's the top down pressure that

1356
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,000
I'm annoyed with that is forcing
schools to be like, yeah, but

1357
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,960
even though we think ICT is
important and on policy, we say

1358
00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:59,880
it's an important office.
Enough Ofsted came, we suddenly

1359
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:01,080
wouldn't do interventions that
week.

1360
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:04,080
We actually are going to be
judged by this data.

1361
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,120
So we need to do something.
I just.

1362
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,200
What you're saying is basically
as a leader, you would take that

1363
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,160
first step to be like, guys, I
know it's on me, it's my risk.

1364
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:13,760
Take the Flack.
OK, I take the Flack.

1365
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,520
Gift of the gab.
Talk to Ofsted, whatever, we'll

1366
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,040
work for it.
I'm just not doing it.

1367
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,160
I'm not prepared to take kids
out of all your age.

1368
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:21,880
Is bad you have them all.
The kids do ICT every week.

1369
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:23,560
Yeah, yeah.
Does that matter?

1370
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,000
No.
OK, I guess I'll start doing

1371
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,760
that immediately.
Bonded, but now I do it.

1372
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,400
Cool, next one.
This is again extreme.

1373
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,440
I feel strongly about it.
I think it doesn't matter.

1374
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,640
I've had discussions and I
respect other people's opinion.

1375
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,080
Yep, I would love to know what
you think this one is no written

1376
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:41,880
marking.
None.

1377
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,560
Wow 0.
OK, zilch.

1378
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,280
My first question to you is
nada.

1379
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,160
Nothing.
Nothing at all.

1380
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,440
I think I understand that bit.
Oh, none. 0.

1381
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,200
How much written marking?
No, no.

1382
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:56,880
I really want to was zero, yeah.
That's really good.

1383
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,400
You got more than I would think.
I said Sup but everyone ZAP

1384
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,320
something that starts with AZ
Sounds like it means 0 zello.

1385
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,760
Zello, Zello sounds like you're
doing with some strange accents.

1386
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,000
Anyway, this is going crazy.
So Zinc, my first.

1387
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,880
You put me off so bad here.
My first question to you, Dylan.

1388
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:15,480
Thank you.
This is a podcast for a serious

1389
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,400
podcast for professionals.
Is is OK?

1390
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,000
What?
What feedback do children get

1391
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:21,840
in?
Oh, none.

1392
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,200
They're getting no feedback.
Oh, sorry, that's what people

1393
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:26,280
hear when they say no written
marking.

1394
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:27,880
They don't think about it for
more than two seconds.

1395
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,240
I'm not.
This is very much like when I

1396
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:33,360
say no formal observations.
I'm not saying don't give

1397
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,040
feedback to your staff.
I'm saying no formal

1398
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,840
motivations.
I'm I when I say no written feed

1399
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:39,800
every time you go no written
marking.

1400
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,800
I'm not saying let's not give
children feedback on what they

1401
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,440
need to do better or what
they've done well.

1402
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,320
All right, so let's get that
through everyone's head who's

1403
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,160
annoyed at me immediately for
saying this.

1404
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,480
No written marking means don't
spend an hour after school when

1405
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,240
the kids aren't in the building
writing something down they

1406
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:55,120
can't even read or understand,
and then they'll have absolutely

1407
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,200
no impact on their ability to do
anything in the next lesson.

1408
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,400
Anything.
There is 0 room for it.

1409
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:00,840
Genuinely no.
Absolutely nothing.

1410
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,920
I think you could very much
justify doing some something,

1411
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,360
but I think this job is a
bottomless pit where you could

1412
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,040
justify doing almost anything
more.

1413
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,880
You could justify looking at
your planning for next week and

1414
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:12,640
spending an extra half an hour
adding some stuff in.

1415
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,080
Don't do it, though.
Yeah, you could.

1416
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:17,040
You could justify it.
Same for writing.

1417
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,960
You could justify if you want.
You could.

1418
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,440
You could write something in the
book that says really

1419
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,280
encouraging for the child.
OK, do you know what I think is

1420
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,800
more powerful?
Just say that to them.

1421
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,480
Just literally say that with
words to the children, like say,

1422
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,280
or you've written it down on the
piece of paper.

1423
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,320
You've done a very.
I like the one sheet thing.

1424
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:33,720
That's like a middle ground to
me.

1425
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:35,440
Yeah, where you might flick
through the book.

1426
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,320
Jot down some notes.
Jot down some notes and then

1427
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,040
just give some verbal feedback.
That's like a really nice.

1428
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,840
Whole class feedback.
Exactly, because that's what

1429
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,520
that's doing.
Is basically to me that's that's

1430
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:44,880
again, it's not really written
feedback.

1431
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,480
Don't sit with the size 2 books
writing something in every book.

1432
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,680
What that does is it at least,
you know, has some kind of

1433
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,640
policy in place that ensures the
feedback's happening again.

1434
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,760
I trust teachers to do feedback,
but I think that's AI think

1435
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,640
that's a nice middle ground
where it's going to save a lot

1436
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,280
of teachers time.
You're still getting the

1437
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,400
feedback in terms of you, you've
written it down at least.

1438
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:03,880
So tomorrow you'll be like, oh,
do you know what?

1439
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,640
I no matter how good we think we
are at doing it, there are

1440
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,960
definitely kids we miss on
verbal feedback because we just

1441
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,080
forget like tomorrow.
Like oh God, yeah, no, I did

1442
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,520
want to talk to them about that.
The one sheet things are nice

1443
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,680
middle ground to me, that still
counts as no written marking.

1444
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,240
Sure.
So what I'm saying is.

1445
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:19,800
Not writing in their books.
Yeah, there should be 0

1446
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,480
expectation to sit through 96
books every day and then someone

1447
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:28,760
picks up a book for a book look
and goes, excuse me, where is

1448
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,040
the positive feedback on the
next step for every single

1449
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:32,400
lesson?
I can't see it.

1450
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,400
You must not give them anything.
Oh, sorry, no, you've got VF

1451
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,240
written in the book, so you must
have talked to them.

1452
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:39,680
Yeah, I'll get nothing.
Nothing should have to be in the

1453
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,800
book 0.
It's pointless.

1454
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,560
Again, it's just pressure.
You're giving your leaders jobs

1455
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,960
they don't have to do.
Oh, this week I'm doing a maths

1456
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:48,320
book.
Look, could I please have 3

1457
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:49,840
maths books?
And I'm just going to take these

1458
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:51,840
names off the People premium
list, which is completely

1459
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,560
arbitrary because they need to
make sure they're getting the

1460
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,240
written feedback, which doesn't
help them at all.

1461
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:56,400
Yeah.
Nothing.

1462
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:57,920
It's an optic.
It's an optic, isn't it?

1463
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,320
Most of the time I find it where
I struggle with this, right,

1464
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,040
Genuinely, maybe you can help me
with this is I think again, with

1465
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,440
maths going back to, you know, I
put a bold statement out there

1466
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,320
that I could do it in three
lessons rather than five.

1467
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,640
I also think I could never,
ever, ever look at a maths book

1468
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,960
and I'd still make a really good
progress with the kids.

1469
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:14,680
Sure.
And honestly, there might be a

1470
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,520
dip, but it would be so
negligible compared to the

1471
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,280
amount of time saved that was
worth it.

1472
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,520
I'll plan a bit lesson.
But I like looking at the maths.

1473
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:21,520
Book.
I will still look at them, do

1474
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:22,320
you know?
But what I'm trying to

1475
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,520
exaggerate here is the idea that
I don't need to mark maths

1476
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:25,720
books.
Honestly, by the time I've

1477
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,120
finished the lesson, I know
exactly where they are because

1478
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,760
I've been with them for an hour.
Yeah, an hour.

1479
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,640
And I was with them for an hour
yesterday when I taught the

1480
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,440
previous.
I know exactly where they all

1481
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:35,920
are, like for.
Christ's sake, yeah.

1482
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,320
What do you think we're doing in
that time?

1483
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:38,680
Yeah.
I don't need to mark their

1484
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:39,280
books.
Genuinely.

1485
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,360
We self mark every single day.
And I'll flick, I'll flick

1486
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:42,040
through them.
Like you said.

1487
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:43,720
I'm kind of looking for whole
class feedback.

1488
00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:45,720
I'm flicking through thinking,
yeah, is there a massive

1489
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:47,200
misconception here being made?
Because if there is, I'll

1490
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:48,360
address it.
If there's not, you know what?

1491
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:49,720
OK, that's fine.
We're doing right then.

1492
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,200
Yeah, well.
This is no, I'm gonna this.

1493
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,120
Is yeah, I'll come back to this
later anyway.

1494
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,720
But with English, I really
struggle.

1495
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,920
I really struggle with this
concept of no written marking

1496
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:01,840
because maybe it's because I'm
in year 6 and I, and I've often

1497
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,480
worked with like quite able
writers as well, where I'll

1498
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,840
write them some feedback and
they really genuinely understand

1499
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,560
it and they implement it.
And I, and I, and I just can't

1500
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,480
imagine a system where I can
speak to all 32 of those kids

1501
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,120
daily and give them verbal
feedback.

1502
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,200
I, I just don't, I can't see
that happening.

1503
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,800
I can't see a system that's
that's good.

1504
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:20,160
Yeah.
So isn't me writing in that

1505
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:21,760
book?
I guess, yeah, I I think you

1506
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,000
make a really good point about
the more the older the children

1507
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:26,080
get.
I mean, that's a really good

1508
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,000
point because you're absolutely
right that does that does impact

1509
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,640
their understanding of marking
stuff.

1510
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,160
Honestly, with a lot of
children, you're 3 and 4, if you

1511
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:39,440
write down in their book use
conjunctions, it honestly does

1512
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,640
nothing.
It does nothing that that it

1513
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:44,400
doesn't matter.
Do you know?

1514
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:45,560
What the proof is, it does
nothing.

1515
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,320
It's because before that, before
you spent 10 seconds writing

1516
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,200
that book, you spent one hour on
a lesson that was all about

1517
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,080
conjunctions, telling them 5060
times what conjunctions are,

1518
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,920
modelling it, and that task was
doing and they didn't do.

1519
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,640
It yeah.
So all all I think that has to

1520
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,280
come from that is OK.
Let's say most of the class

1521
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,240
can't do conjunctions.
I'm going to do again, let's say

1522
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:05,160
two of the class can't do
conjunctions.

1523
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,080
Next time you do conjunctions,
make sure they're your focus.

1524
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,880
I don't think it needs to be in
the kids book.

1525
00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:13,200
So even when I'm thinking about
year 6, maybe you could set me

1526
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,520
straight here, You don't.
They've done a piece of writing

1527
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:16,920
the kids really take into
account.

1528
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,440
OK, my next step was use
semicolons right?

1529
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,000
Do you mean tomorrow?
Do you mean go back and do it in

1530
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,600
your work now?
Do you mean next time you

1531
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:29,440
literally do semi colon anyway?
Like in what way is that doing

1532
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,400
something for the children that
wouldn't be happening anyway for

1533
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:32,280
your planning?
Yeah.

1534
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:33,320
OK.
I'm going to flip this a bit

1535
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,400
because I think you're focusing
on hilariously.

1536
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,600
The thing that we're going to
English earlier, right?

1537
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,600
I think those things is
absolutely fine to keep a whole

1538
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,160
class sheet genuinely like a
spreadsheet if you want of kids

1539
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,160
that still can't do stuff that
you talk and then you can just

1540
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,360
feedback to them as when you, if
you have a good teacher, has a

1541
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:47,840
good understanding of what the
kids need, right?

1542
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,360
It's more powerful.
That's way more powerful.

1543
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,120
Agree that doesn't need to be in
their books all the time.

1544
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:53,800
You could just have that
separately and you know, as a

1545
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:54,960
teacher, this is what I.
Need to work with.

1546
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,560
When it comes to when it comes
to you want to have it, you want

1547
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,360
to write a paragraph, you want
to have an actual conversation

1548
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,240
with the kids of why this
structure of that paragraph

1549
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,320
doesn't quite flow properly.
I, I feel like you need to have

1550
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:06,600
a proper conversation with them,
right?

1551
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:08,880
I think that's better.
I do think that's better, but I,

1552
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,840
but I don't want to do nothing.
And I'm like, it's hard to, I

1553
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,280
couldn't write on a whole class
feedback.

1554
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:14,480
I just want, I want to give them
something.

1555
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,680
So I'll at least write them a
sentence of.

1556
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,960
Maybe I'll underline these.
These two sentences don't really

1557
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:19,720
flow very well.
I don't know.

1558
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:20,760
I don't.
Know I just, you know what I

1559
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,320
don't, I'm going to say that I
don't think that's bad.

1560
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,400
No, but do you think I could get
rid of that and not have much

1561
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:26,240
impact?
That's what you're saying.

1562
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:27,520
Could I?
Because that will take, It takes

1563
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,800
me at the moment like 2-3 hours
honestly, to mark one English.

1564
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,880
Exactly.
It takes me so long to mark it

1565
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,320
there.
Has to be, we talked about this

1566
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:39,720
before the scale, the time in
and the impact out and too many

1567
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,640
people just look at the impact
out and go, well, if there's

1568
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,960
something in the impact out,
then it's worth doing.

1569
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,720
That's not true.
If the impact out is I'm going

1570
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:54,280
to make up a unit 5 and the F in
is 100, it doesn't matter that

1571
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,640
yeah, I know it's not just 50,
it's 5% better.

1572
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,160
No, no, you put in so much
effort, remove it.

1573
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:00,640
Don't do it.
My point there is I don't think

1574
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:01,600
you need to do that.
Yeah, sure.

1575
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,640
I don't, I think through your
teaching, right.

1576
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,400
You for example saying 2
sentences don't quite work

1577
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,200
together.
That's going to be covered when

1578
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,080
you look at new texts.
When you look at stuff.

1579
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,200
And you're exposed to it.
Then having it written in their

1580
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:16,200
book, I just don't think.
Honestly has I didn't impact

1581
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:17,640
last point on this one move on
to next one.

1582
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,040
But I I saw some research
recently.

1583
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,360
I watched a video, some guy, I
think he did the research and he

1584
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,000
summarising what he did about
marking right.

1585
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,240
And he had three control groups.
One was the, the children

1586
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,840
received like a score, you know,
like classic, like out of 10

1587
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,440
score or like a a grade for
their work.

1588
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,000
And that's all they got any, any
other feedback.

1589
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,640
And another group only got like
only got feedback.

1590
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:38,600
I think it was written, but it
could have been verbal as well.

1591
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:40,600
But the point was there's no
score or grade attached to it.

1592
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:42,920
It was just how to improve.
And then there's a middle

1593
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,560
control group that had both.
And really, really, really

1594
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,200
interestingly, this, the study
showed that children that just

1595
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:53,120
got a grade, that process of
marking, given their grade did

1596
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:54,760
not help them make progress in
any way.

1597
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:56,920
Like it was as good.
There's another one to be fair,

1598
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,040
that didn't have anything at
all.

1599
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,320
It was as good as that, right?
And then the ones that just got

1600
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,640
feedback and no grade, it was
proven to have a significant

1601
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,400
impact on their progress because
they actually knew what to

1602
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,440
improve and they weren't caught
up in the yeah, but you're

1603
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,760
rubbish, you got. 6 out of 10.
Yeah, you got, you got an F in

1604
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,920
this, you know, grading system.
And the one of the middle ones

1605
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:15,560
I'm really interested in because
I feel like schools do this

1606
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,480
because obviously we're all
martyrs and we do the absolute

1607
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,400
worst possible option where we
do all of the work.

1608
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,680
We give them grades quite often
for lessons, like, you know, our

1609
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:24,640
school might highlight other
schools do stickers other

1610
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,800
schools will do like another
different colour or something.

1611
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,120
That means they did well.
Yeah.

1612
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,760
They got a grade and they got
the feedback and it had the

1613
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,560
exact same impact as just the
grade or doing nothing at all.

1614
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,160
So it had less impact than just
feedback.

1615
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:36,800
Yeah.
So.

1616
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:38,840
So giving feedback to a child.
Yeah.

1617
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,760
Had more impact than giving
feedback and the score.

1618
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:43,720
Yeah.
It made it worse.

1619
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:44,040
Yeah.
Yeah.

1620
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,800
And the idea I think they were
getting at was the the point,

1621
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,680
the grade, it just no one cares
about the rest of them, right?

1622
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:51,040
Yeah.
They just want to get into this

1623
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,040
culture of I just want to know
if I got oh, am I green?

1624
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:53,920
Am I?
Did it get this pass?

1625
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,280
Did I get did I pass?
Did I not?

1626
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,080
OK, but I didn't pass.
Don't care.

1627
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:58,920
I'm rubbish then.
So another thing that just

1628
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:02,400
clearly, but we've always given
grades to the child.

1629
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:04,240
Yeah, I don't think they're
useful.

1630
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,160
I think they useful for us.
We can keep assessments of them

1631
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:08,840
for our own understanding.
They don't need to know.

1632
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:10,440
You don't need to tell the kid,
oh you're rubbish.

1633
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,760
A mouse, by the way, you've got
10 out of 50.

1634
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:14,600
It doesn't help them.
Right.

1635
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:16,600
I completely agree.
Anyway, separate point, right?

1636
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,160
Next thing we would introduce
straight away.

1637
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:19,720
For me, I'm very passionate
about this.

1638
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,200
It's about director time.
Firstly, I think director time

1639
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,120
is just a broken system.
I really do.

1640
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,720
It's just, it's this imaginary
amount of hours that we've all

1641
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,720
got to be directed to do.
But by the way, you've got to do

1642
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,400
everything else crazy we've
talked about a million times.

1643
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,760
My point here is when when I
come into a school, director

1644
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,120
time is obviously still going to
exist, but it will not, it will

1645
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,520
absolutely not impact what I
feel like I've got to make my

1646
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,720
teachers do.
So my point being, there are

1647
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,800
lots of schools out there who'll
say we've got to have an hour

1648
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,240
long meeting after school every
single week because it's part of

1649
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:52,280
director time and we'll fill it
with something, we'll have

1650
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,560
something there.
My point is, unless it is

1651
01:00:55,640 --> 01:01:00,160
actually genuinely impacting
something that must be improved

1652
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,120
in your school or something
where you have to be there in

1653
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,320
person to be there with the
person training, you either

1654
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:11,680
don't have a meeting that week,
it's OK because by the way, no

1655
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,880
one's going home early.
They're going to set a mark and

1656
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:18,440
do all the other stuff that's
part of the job, or B Basically

1657
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:20,760
that people want.
People want training when it's

1658
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,040
helpful.
Doing this will just give

1659
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,520
something back to your staff.
No one sat here going oh, I hate

1660
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,160
training, but what people are
saying is I hate pointless

1661
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,600
training.
So don't just think just because

1662
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:33,440
of you've got these hours to
hear.

1663
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:37,240
Yeah, don't worry about it's OK.
Your staff are going over these

1664
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,200
hours anyway.
Yeah, you could do nothing

1665
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,760
extra.
You could do nothing extra and

1666
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,120
direct your time doing nothing
more.

1667
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,600
They're going over the hours
anyway, so just check that.

1668
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,480
Don't force it.
I would not have every single

1669
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,080
week we have to be together to
do this.

1670
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:52,040
Yeah.
Send an e-mail.

1671
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:53,560
Do you want me an e-mail?
Send an e-mail.

1672
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:55,320
I'd ignore, like, I think that's
what you're getting at.

1673
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:57,640
I'd ignore the directed time
hours for the year.

1674
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,600
I wouldn't be sat there thinking
in a positive way.

1675
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,360
Yeah, in a positive, Yeah.
Oh, I'm scrolling the finger.

1676
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:03,920
Oh, we've still got 20 hours
left to use up with the staff

1677
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:04,720
and we've not done the whole
thing.

1678
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:05,920
You know what?
I wouldn't be thinking that.

1679
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:07,800
I'd only be checking.
Make sure we haven't gone over

1680
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:08,240
it.
Sure.

1681
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:09,640
Anything under it doesn't.
It doesn't.

1682
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,600
Matter, I think a lot of I think
a lot of SRT do that, but my

1683
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,040
point is I still think it gets I
do still think it gets trapped

1684
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,600
into yeah well, we do this every
week because it's direct time

1685
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:19,880
yeah, we don't have.
My thoughts are on this.

1686
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,240
Just honestly scrapped scrap
directed time.

1687
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,240
Not in a bad way.
This what someone said and it

1688
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,720
was like I saw this online.
Someone wrote a letter dent to

1689
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:27,840
an MP.
I'll maybe share it.

1690
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:29,440
We'll share another time.
It was really interesting but

1691
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:33,080
I've had this thought before,
just just just make our hours

1692
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,960
the same as any other job, how
it all works genuinely and it

1693
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,280
would be longer because we have
more time off in like half

1694
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:38,760
terms.
Right.

1695
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:39,880
So wait, then we go ahead around
this.

1696
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:43,440
So you're saying make it
contracted that we have hours we

1697
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:43,960
work?
Yep.

1698
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,320
So that in the entire year it's
equivalent to just working.

1699
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,280
Yeah, just a normal public,
normal holidays, exactly that.

1700
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:51,120
So what normal what?
What does normal work for seven

1701
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:52,200
hours?
Something like that.

1702
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,160
Isn't it so it couldn't be that
for teachers because we do just

1703
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:55,320
have more weeks off, so it
wouldn't be fair.

1704
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:57,800
So to average out is something
it works out at something like

1705
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,600
44 1/2 hours a week, right.
And I genuinely, I would love to

1706
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:04,160
just be like, cool, these are
our working hours of the day,

1707
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,480
even roughly like banned.
What it is this chunk is for is

1708
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,240
your teaching time.
You have this at two hours after

1709
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,280
school.
That is administrative time in

1710
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,120
in, you know, you could get your
marking done and things like

1711
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:15,360
that.
And you have this hour before

1712
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:16,520
school.
This is administrative time as

1713
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:17,680
well, getting ready for your
lessons.

1714
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:19,200
And because it's like 9 hours a
day isn't.

1715
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,200
It it works out, yeah, quite a
long day, 9 hours a day, which

1716
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,400
is a suitable amount of time. 7
till 4.

1717
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:25,720
Is that right?
Yeah. 7:00 till 4.

1718
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,160
So even that sounds like Peach
is doing longer than that

1719
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:28,760
anyway.
The minute.

1720
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:30,720
Oh yeah, it's a good match.
Check the math.

1721
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,600
I was like, hang on, check.
Or 8 till 5.

1722
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,040
Yeah, 8 till five, yeah, that's
probably or half 7 till half

1723
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,240
four, genuinely, that's probably
quite common and I'd still give

1724
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,240
a bit of flexibility of.
You saying sorry very quickly.

1725
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,160
Doing that every week would be
equivalent to just doing a

1726
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:42,600
normal full time job with normal
holidays.

1727
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,520
Yes, and nothing extra.
And then and then build in an

1728
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,080
overtime system like every other
job does.

1729
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,320
If we want to start taking
teachers time seriously and

1730
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,080
solve this crisis of retention,
we need to do something drastic

1731
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:54,440
like that.
It sounds mental, doesn't it?

1732
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:56,320
And and I'll tell you why it
sounds mental because we've all

1733
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,000
been gas lit into thinking that
teachers have to be martyrs and,

1734
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,600
and wear shirts and ties and
wear shirts and ties.

1735
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,760
The fact that it sounds mental
to do a normal working hour job

1736
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,560
as a teacher which just just 44.
Hours a week.

1737
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:08,720
Just says something, doesn't it?
The fact that it sounds weird,

1738
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:10,240
it's like, what do you mean it
sounds weird?

1739
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,600
It doesn't sound weird.
In any other job ever, you get

1740
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,040
paid over time, leisure hours.
And genuinely, like I said

1741
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:17,920
before, you look at it, if
someone goes over those hours

1742
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,560
regularly, nothing, and they're
doing extra work, you pull them

1743
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:21,600
in.
Like what's going on or why

1744
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:23,640
something's gone wrong?
Like why are you doing all this

1745
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:24,720
extra stuff?
This isn't right.

1746
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,160
Can you imagine?
I just I, you know, I think what

1747
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:30,000
gives us honestly room to say
about this is that we literally

1748
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,120
run a business as well and we,
we pay people, for example, to

1749
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,960
make resources and stuff, right?
So let's say we're, we're, we're

1750
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:38,000
coming, we're working with
someone saying, right, we need X

1751
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,320
amount of resources, please.
All these sheets, we'll come up

1752
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:44,000
with an even hourly rate or a
rate for the job that we think

1753
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,000
is really fair.
And we work with the person we

1754
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,360
really mindful of, like we
really value your time.

1755
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:49,680
So let's agree something
together.

1756
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:53,080
Yeah, it is honestly like I was
then going, oh, by the way, can

1757
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,480
you do 10 more?
Because it just got to get done.

1758
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,120
It's just got to get done.
That would never, ever.

1759
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,240
Have you like, OK, pay me for
that then be ridiculous.

1760
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,560
So I think I like the idea of
get rid of the whole directed

1761
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,320
time system, basically the
normal public sector working

1762
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,320
hour job, just start time,
finish time, overtime.

1763
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:09,360
Yeah, done.
Brilliant.

1764
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,240
OK, how about next one?
I want you to talk about PPA.

1765
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:13,720
So you're, you're a staff
leader.

1766
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,280
You, you come in and this is
another policy article.

1767
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,680
Let's let's perform PPA.
But what?

1768
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:21,920
What would you like to see?
That's not a quick fix, no, but

1769
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:23,080
I would do a massive review on
it.

1770
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,000
I would look at, I'd talk to the
staff in my school.

1771
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,040
I think there's not probably 1
system that works everywhere.

1772
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,320
I talk to my staff in my school,
find out what they do in their

1773
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,360
PPA, find out whether they like
it, whether it works, whether

1774
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,280
it's not enough time, what kind
of task they need more time to

1775
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:35,240
do, and genuinely come up with a
better system.

1776
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:36,800
I think even like the basics,
right?

1777
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:38,760
The bare minimum a leader should
do is make sure they're even

1778
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,800
getting 10% because so many
schools don't even actually give

1779
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,600
that staff 10%.
It works out like 8.5% because

1780
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,880
an afternoon, by the way, yeah,
is not 10%, yeah, depending on

1781
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,040
your timetable, but almost
certainly, yeah, most because

1782
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:53,240
like if you actually look at it,
the afternoon it, it's basically

1783
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:54,600
you need half of a day.
Yeah.

1784
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,080
Well, that's weird because we do
English and maths in the morning

1785
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,640
and an afternoon lesson, yeah.
It doesn't quite work out does

1786
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:01,880
it's always yeah.
So I'd review it and then and

1787
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:03,400
you know, I think you've you've
thought of some nice.

1788
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:04,600
I'm trying to think of some of
your ideas.

1789
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,120
You've thought some nice like
alternatives to just doing the

1790
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:08,560
classic one afternoon out a
week, right.

1791
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,120
So so.
Firstly, like you said, I think

1792
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,200
it's really important to talk to
your staff and individualise

1793
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:14,680
your PPM the way it works,
because it doesn't work the same

1794
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:16,200
for everyone.
I really, really agree with

1795
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,960
that.
I would offer at least half the

1796
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:20,600
option for everyone to take it
from home.

1797
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:22,640
Yeah, sure, absolutely.
From the start.

1798
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,560
Oh, but it doesn't quite work
because of this.

1799
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:26,280
Make it work then.
Yeah, make honestly make it.

1800
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:27,280
It's their time.
Move something.

1801
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:28,360
It's their time.
Exactly that.

1802
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:29,880
And do you know what?
I'm a teacher.

1803
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,760
If I was given the opportunity
to go home, I'd probably stay

1804
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:33,520
half the time.
Yeah.

1805
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:34,880
Because.
Because it's more beneficial for

1806
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:35,840
me.
I've got stuff in school I need

1807
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:37,240
to do or I've got people I need
to talk.

1808
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:38,520
To then you.
Also, I'm a professional.

1809
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,720
Some weeks I'd be like, oh, I'm
going and you know, some weeks

1810
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:43,600
I'd go and I'd do my like
Christmas shopping because I can

1811
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,120
do more work later and it's less
busy, right?

1812
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:46,440
Do you know what?
I'm professional, leave my own.

1813
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:48,360
So that's the first thing
straight away.

1814
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:50,120
The other thing, I think, I
can't remember where I saw this.

1815
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,840
I think this might have been
from a real Mr P talked about

1816
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:54,880
where he went to do some
training in a school.

1817
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,080
And it hit me as this is such a
nice way of doing stuff, which

1818
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:02,280
is so quite often in a school.
Everyone leads a subject.

1819
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,000
Very, very normal.
We've talked about a million

1820
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,280
times how it's a ridiculous
thing that should part of the

1821
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:07,560
school.
OK, cool, all right, fine.

1822
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:09,600
That's annoying.
Can't really fix that, can we?

1823
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:10,840
Can't come in and be like, no,
we can't.

1824
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:12,880
We need a geography lead.
So this episode isn't for

1825
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:14,600
talking about what the
government should do, etcetera.

1826
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,640
We do need a geography lead.
So what I thought was an amazing

1827
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,160
solution this school did was
everyone needs a subject.

1828
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:22,960
So every single week you get a
day off.

1829
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:26,720
And, and the point is this isn't
a day off like people here.

1830
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,560
They're out of class, a day out
of class where they can do it

1831
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:30,960
from home if they want.
They don't have to come to the

1832
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,040
building or they can come into
the building and do whatever.

1833
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,680
And the point is half of it is
PPA.

1834
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,360
So you're absolutely getting
your 10% because it doesn't

1835
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,400
matter that it's half for
English, you're not doing half.

1836
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,480
Yeah, half it's your PPA.
The other half is subject

1837
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:43,680
leader.
It's OK.

1838
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:46,600
You, you will do your subject
leadership stuff in this time.

1839
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:48,840
Yeah.
So actually giving people time

1840
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,400
to do their subjects, it's a
great solution and and it's so

1841
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,560
much effective.
Imagine this is like it's so it

1842
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,600
would help retention so much.
Yeah.

1843
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,000
Because A, it's solving the
issue that you don't get time to

1844
01:07:58,000 --> 01:07:59,880
do your subject leadership,
you've just got to do it at the

1845
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:01,560
weekend.
B, it's giving you proper PPA

1846
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,200
and C, it's giving you a three
day weekend.

1847
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:04,520
Yeah, yeah.
And I know your day might be on

1848
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:06,200
a Wednesday.
Yeah, but it's just giving you

1849
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,040
that time to go and do your
admin stuff if you need to.

1850
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:09,320
Yeah.
Yeah.

1851
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,480
But when you get your work done,
people, teachers are used to

1852
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:12,520
work in an evening at the
weekend.

1853
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,240
They might still do that, but on
a Wednesday they can go to the

1854
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:17,439
gym at 9, carry on working at
11.

1855
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:19,760
It would increase that
well-being so much, I think.

1856
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:21,240
But then we're not maximising
that.

1857
01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:23,319
They're not working all day and
then we're not getting there.

1858
01:08:23,319 --> 01:08:24,359
They should be in school because
then we can.

1859
01:08:24,359 --> 01:08:25,760
If they're going to the gym,
they might not then do as much.

1860
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:27,720
Work.
It's such an insane view on this

1861
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:29,160
profession.
That's just because we care

1862
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,000
about kids, right?
We've got to sacrifice our lives

1863
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,200
for it, No?
There can be perks to the job.

1864
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:35,479
This can be one of them.
Get over it.

1865
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:37,680
I mean, the biggest barrier
there is probably being

1866
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:39,319
realistic again, probably is
government, isn't it?

1867
01:08:39,319 --> 01:08:40,680
It's budget, it's funding for
schools.

1868
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:42,000
I'm sure some schools would love
to do that.

1869
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:44,200
They just, they're just not a
big enough school, they don't

1870
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,240
get enough funding, they don't
have enough Tasmania or whoever

1871
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,720
cover supervisors.
I really work hard to try and do

1872
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,160
it, I guess is what I'm saying.
I'd look at it and be like, at

1873
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,080
the very least PPA can be done
from home.

1874
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:54,279
I'm not going to force you to
stay in.

1875
01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:55,319
There's stuff you can do
straight away.

1876
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,399
I'd really look at that.
And even if it was like every

1877
01:08:57,399 --> 01:08:59,399
other week you get a subject
release time, we can't afford to

1878
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:01,080
do every week, sure, but you get
something, sure.

1879
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:02,880
And we'll rework our budgets and
we'll.

1880
01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:05,439
Do it in that PPA day so you can
have the day off, yeah.

1881
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:07,240
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, That's really cool.

1882
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:08,920
That's really cool.
This is a long old Listen there

1883
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,040
a couple more things to finish
up with a big episode today.

1884
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:13,880
Next one, just a quick one.
Actually, it's just have a

1885
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:17,279
policy because every school of
policies, a managing change

1886
01:09:17,279 --> 01:09:19,479
policy actually really strict.
So it would be literally a

1887
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:20,560
policy.
Changing your clothes.

1888
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:25,560
From where do you change into
your PE stuff At home because

1889
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:26,960
you can come in every day.
Brilliant.

1890
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,720
Love this policy.
Managing change policy would

1891
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:32,760
literally be how we change stuff
in this school that's going to

1892
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:34,319
impact your workload.
It's kind of like a workload

1893
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:36,640
policy.
So it's tied I guess to it.

1894
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,120
But I'd have a really strict
policy of if we want to change

1895
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:41,600
anything in this school, it has
to go through these steps.

1896
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,640
And these steps are all really
thoughtful and mindful of the

1897
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,240
teacher and the Tasmania and the
office stuff.

1898
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:50,080
Whoever it is who have to do
this work, it has to go through

1899
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:51,000
this.
If it doesn't go through this,

1900
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:53,120
we don't do it like we because
it's very classic for school to

1901
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,240
be like after to come in next
year, we're going to change

1902
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:56,880
absolutely everything in the
entire school.

1903
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:58,480
You've got to do 8 years of work
in one.

1904
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:00,320
You've got to do it though,
haven't you?

1905
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:01,320
That.
That's the big one.

1906
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:02,480
But you know what I see a lot as
well?

1907
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,440
Someone's just passionate about
their subject, which is amazing.

1908
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:09,560
They're leading DT, they love
DT, and they want to implement

1909
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:11,640
this really cool change and it's
awesome.

1910
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:13,360
Yeah.
But not now, please.

1911
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:15,640
Yeah, because you know why?
The arts, art leaders also

1912
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,080
really passionate and so is the
maths 1 and they all want to do

1913
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:20,000
these changes at once.
The school needs a managing

1914
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,880
change policy.
I'd be really strict on it.

1915
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:23,160
I think a lot of schools have it
as a tick.

1916
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:23,880
Box.
But why?

1917
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:26,640
Why is the reason for this?
Is it directly the well-being

1918
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:28,480
and workload?
Well-being and workload and I

1919
01:10:28,480 --> 01:10:30,120
need to be held.
I'm, you know, if I'm a school

1920
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,440
leader, I've got the highest
count, I'm being paid the most,

1921
01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:34,560
mate.
I need to, I need to be as just

1922
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:36,400
as accountable as anyone else,
if not more accountable,

1923
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:37,960
genuinely.
And that is like you should need

1924
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:39,440
to, you should be more
accountable, absolutely should

1925
01:10:39,440 --> 01:10:41,560
be more accountable.
I'm being paid twice as much as

1926
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:42,760
some of the teachers in that
school.

1927
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:44,760
Of course I am.
So they need to be able to hold

1928
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,040
me accountable for their
workload and their stress and

1929
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:48,840
their well-being.
And this policy will do that.

1930
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,960
And I think it is important for
leaders to recognise that they

1931
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,040
should do that, even if it
means, oh, this is only going to

1932
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:56,320
scrutinise me.
Yes, yeah, that is your job.

1933
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,600
So and part of this managing
chain policy I assume would be

1934
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,360
something like, yeah, of course
the well-being the workload of

1935
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:03,520
the teacher, we need to manage
that so we can only do X amount

1936
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,280
of subjects now and the rest in
the future.

1937
01:11:05,440 --> 01:11:07,120
Yeah.
But also, I would love to see a

1938
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:09,760
big part of the policy being how
much impact is it going to have

1939
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,240
for the children?
Yeah, because so often things

1940
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,000
are brought in because they're
trendy, because other schools

1941
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:15,320
are doing it, because they've
had good outcomes.

1942
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:18,960
How many times have you put so
much effort into a massive

1943
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:24,280
change and seem a little to no
actual proper progress

1944
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:26,080
difference in the children?
Because you know, and you

1945
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:28,200
usually because it's been
rushed, there's not been

1946
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:30,000
adequate training before and
there's not been adequate

1947
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,400
research before this.
So my policy would be like if

1948
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,400
you want a little flow diagram,
if you want to implement change,

1949
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:36,080
right, is a massive change in
the school already happening?

1950
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,360
Yes.
K you can't do it honestly ends

1951
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,800
there simple as that has to be
OK put on the school plan for

1952
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,160
later then next one if it is
something we can do now.

1953
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,680
Brilliant.
OK first step research stage

1954
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,280
needs needs to be some time on
that need to complete a thing

1955
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:50,680
whatever the task is The thing
is there needs complete tangible

1956
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,200
evidence.
Yeah, next one, you know the

1957
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:55,760
impact, what impacts is going to
have, try it in your own school

1958
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:57,640
of a couple of staff or
whatever, you know, to have some

1959
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:00,320
sort of trial process and and
then get the training, give them

1960
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,320
time or even before that, get
the training and training,

1961
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:03,920
training, training, training,
training, make sure everyone's

1962
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:05,080
really, really secure the
training.

1963
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:07,560
And then it's right now we've
got to actually implement all of

1964
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:09,320
this workload.
Start not thinking of, OK,

1965
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:11,000
you're going to start getting
extra time out.

1966
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:12,680
You know what, not doing staff
meetings for the whole year,

1967
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:14,680
every single staff meeting time
we were going to do.

1968
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:16,000
You're now going to have that
time.

1969
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:17,800
And that comes back to the whole
director time thing.

1970
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:20,040
Yeah, doesn't listen.
Listen, if you're doing this

1971
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:23,200
massive implementing of change
this time, scrap your scrap your

1972
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:25,800
staff meeting.
Yeah, it's, we've had this

1973
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,440
sometimes in our school where it
said no staff meeting this week

1974
01:12:28,440 --> 01:12:30,360
because we're changing RE.
Yeah.

1975
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:31,720
So now you've got time to you
got time to go.

1976
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,000
I appreciate that.
Yes, every single time, Yeah.

1977
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:36,520
Absolutely.
But but you can appreciate it

1978
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:38,960
and say that's how it should be.
Yeah, because it's how it should

1979
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:39,840
be.
And thank you for doing it

1980
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:40,880
right.
Yeah, exactly.

1981
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:42,960
So, yeah, managing change,
that's a big thing I'd do as a

1982
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:44,120
leader.
I'd get that written up.

1983
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,040
I'd get that implemented and
make it really impactful.

1984
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:47,440
OK.
So last one we're going to talk

1985
01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:50,440
about, I guess we spent a lot of
time talking about policies,

1986
01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:53,040
obviously the head teacher
policies on, on impacting the

1987
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:54,800
teachers because we do feel left
behind sometimes.

1988
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,360
Let's be realistic.
You've talked about it, you you

1989
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,000
did it put it really nicely last
week about how putting the

1990
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,520
teachers first will actually put
the kids first as a result.

1991
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,960
I really agree with that.
But the last one I'm going to

1992
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:07,000
talk is very much child centred
and I am, I could not be more

1993
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,320
passionate about this.
It is.

1994
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:15,120
I would absolutely ring fence as
the most important part of my

1995
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:18,960
timetable, the amount of time
children get to play.

1996
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,760
OK, that break times.
Lunch time, I'm talking, I'm

1997
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,360
talking play.
Just play.

1998
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,480
This can be structured play.
It could be play where they just

1999
01:13:28,480 --> 01:13:31,000
got free play, IE their break
times, their lunch times.

2000
01:13:31,480 --> 01:13:34,680
If your assembly is, let's say
your assembly is before break

2001
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:37,400
time and assembly overruns,
that's fine.

2002
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,000
That's gonna happen because your
children might have got in late

2003
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:41,360
because they're less than over.
It's normal.

2004
01:13:41,440 --> 01:13:44,120
That's normal.
But the answer isn't to say, oh,

2005
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:45,880
we'll catch that up, we'll get
them at the same time.

2006
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:47,400
They've lost 7 minutes of their
break time.

2007
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:48,880
They've only been out for 8
minutes or.

2008
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:50,920
So yeah, no, no, no, no break
time protected.

2009
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:55,320
Break time should be honest,
honestly as important, if not

2010
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:57,080
more important than the time we
look at for maths.

2011
01:13:57,240 --> 01:14:00,040
We'd always go, Oh no, gosh, we
can't miss 5 minutes of mass is

2012
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,400
awful.
You're late by 5 minutes of mass

2013
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:03,880
every day that's you'll have a
huge impact and we all agree

2014
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:05,320
that's that's true.
It's going to have an impact if

2015
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:07,320
you're late every day to mass.
It's going to have an impact if

2016
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:08,760
every single day you're having 5
minutes.

2017
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:10,520
Cut off your lunchtime, cut off
your break time.

2018
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:13,480
Not only for the kids and this
is really child centred.

2019
01:14:13,480 --> 01:14:16,920
I think it's so important the
kids get time to play and be

2020
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,800
social and not sit at their desk
and just do work constantly

2021
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:22,760
because we can manufact social
interactions in the classroom.

2022
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:24,760
There's nothing like the real
thing when they're outside

2023
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:26,000
playing and getting annoyed at
each other.

2024
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:29,240
I want my kids to get annoyed at
each other on the playground.

2025
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,000
That's part of growing up.
Yeah, that's part you're going

2026
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,440
to fall out of social
interaction.

2027
01:14:33,440 --> 01:14:36,920
Only way you can do it if it's
manufactured so that that's

2028
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:38,280
minimal time they're in the
classroom.

2029
01:14:38,440 --> 01:14:39,400
Guys, talk to your partner,
please.

2030
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:41,000
Oh, no, no, no.
Don't disagree with each other.

2031
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,960
No, don't shout at each other.
Just talk to my please talk to

2032
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:44,720
talk about conjunctions.
Give me some conjunction.

2033
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,120
There's no, there's no room for
that in the classroom because

2034
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:49,360
it's so structured and behaviour
has to be perfect because you

2035
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:50,440
have to do all your learning
behaviours.

2036
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:52,200
And that's fine.
Yeah, but the kids aren't

2037
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,080
getting the chance to fall out
if they aren't understanding

2038
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:57,560
this is an all part of being a
human and having interaction

2039
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:00,200
where you're going to you're
going to not like people.

2040
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:02,200
You're going to when are.
You going to?

2041
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,000
Give and take, you know, like
when they I want to play this

2042
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:05,960
game, they want to play that
game.

2043
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:07,200
Do you know what?
We'll play your game today.

2044
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:08,240
Yeah.
Losing that self.

2045
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:08,960
Yeah.
I agree.

2046
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:11,240
Social interactions should be
completely protected.

2047
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:13,440
I couldn't agree more.
Totally, totally important.

2048
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:14,720
They shouldn't be given up for
anything.

2049
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:18,120
And this links and this policy
would link to teachers as well.

2050
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,280
So like break time, Golden.
OK, Golden.

2051
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:24,160
And I know you might choose to
mark your maths, but I'm not

2052
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:26,240
going to ask you to do something
ever in your it's your time,

2053
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:27,560
it's your time.
Because I know you're doing more

2054
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:29,520
than director time anyway.
Lunchtime.

2055
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:33,120
OK, OK.
Get started with lunchtime in a

2056
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:34,600
school.
It's such a facade, isn't it?

2057
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,080
A lunchtime doesn't exist.
But you know what?

2058
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:39,760
The reason for me, it doesn't
necessarily exist is because I'm

2059
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:41,320
choosing to mark something in
that time.

2060
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:43,200
Yeah, that's my choice.
Because then I can go home half

2061
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:45,080
an hour earlier.
Yeah, that's fine.

2062
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:49,040
Never, ever, ever as a leader,
would I ever ask any of my

2063
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:51,280
teachers to do anything at
lunchtime unless it was a

2064
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:52,920
dramatic emergency.
Fine.

2065
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:54,040
Yeah, of course.
Of course.

2066
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:55,360
I'm a normal human being.
I'm going to do that.

2067
01:15:55,480 --> 01:15:57,680
But it's never, ever expected.
It's not like, oh, yeah, we do

2068
01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:59,240
one lunchtime duty a week
schedule.

2069
01:15:59,240 --> 01:15:59,720
Sorry.
What?

2070
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:02,240
I hears teachers say that like,
Oh yeah, we do 1A week.

2071
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:03,960
Like it's like.
Yeah, yeah, you don't get.

2072
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,240
Sorry, what?
What do you mean you do what?

2073
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:07,560
And then you teach?
Yeah, teaching Nothing.

2074
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:10,600
No, that's not OK.
Yeah, that's not OK.

2075
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,080
I know school should.
Be part of the furniture.

2076
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:13,400
Should it?
Yeah, I know school, like

2077
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:15,200
literally someone I know
personally who they have, they

2078
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:17,000
do breakdown duty every day,
five days a week.

2079
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:19,800
Wow, Genuinely there's like
there's quite a small school

2080
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:21,760
five days a week, but they
never, they never get a break

2081
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:23,640
and it's not built in for them
afterwards either.

2082
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:25,280
They can kind of have a break in
literally as if they're lucky

2083
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:27,160
they've got TA around, they can
just pop to the toilet whilst I

2084
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:28,440
take them.
It's mental.

2085
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,240
Five days a week.
Yeah, I think as a teacher, the

2086
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:33,640
point the some people might sit
there and go, yeah, of course

2087
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:35,120
you can work from half eight to
half 12.

2088
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:37,680
Everyone does that in a job,
fine teaching.

2089
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:39,720
I don't think people understand
how mentally exhausting it is

2090
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:40,920
and you just need 10 minutes
sometimes.

2091
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:44,320
But also I think what people
don't realise is so many, we're

2092
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:46,680
not using it as a break.
No one's actually going and

2093
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:49,440
having a sit down cup of tea. 15
minutes, yeah, No, no, the break

2094
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,960
is setting up the next lesson.
Yeah, is maybe getting up with

2095
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:53,960
your bit of marking or it is sat
down.

2096
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,320
Reflected You know what, some
people probably do have a tea

2097
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:57,440
and that.
Should be OK.

2098
01:16:57,440 --> 01:16:59,560
Some people too probably just
spend 3 minutes on it just going

2099
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:01,440
to make the tea and then bring
back to classroom cracking on,

2100
01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:02,880
but it gives them that chance.
I agree and lunchtime.

2101
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:04,240
Do you know what the sad thing
is of lunchtime?

2102
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:07,240
I also spend it marking, but I
quite regularly still end up

2103
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,600
going home at 5 half 5.
And I think if I didn't

2104
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:11,960
sacrifice my lunch willingly, I
wouldn't even have been able to

2105
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:13,880
get this job done because the
school closes at 5:45.

2106
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:15,120
I would have been here till
6:30.

2107
01:17:15,440 --> 01:17:16,880
That's mad.
That shouldn't be.

2108
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:19,240
It should be a sacrifice because
I then get to go home at like

2109
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:21,840
really early.
If I get if I go home at 3:45

2110
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:23,520
because I spent an hour at
lunchtime rather than going home

2111
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:24,680
at 4:45.
OK, fair enough.

2112
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:26,800
That's my choice.
But yeah, it's, you know, it

2113
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:28,440
goes so far, doesn't it becomes
an expectation.

2114
01:17:28,440 --> 01:17:30,200
Of course you'll mark a lunch
because then you can do all the

2115
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:31,640
best of your market after school
for three hours.

2116
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:33,320
What?
Yeah.

2117
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:34,280
Protect it.
Protect breaks.

2118
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:35,480
I love it.
Dylan, that was a really long

2119
01:17:35,480 --> 01:17:36,680
list.
It was a really long episode,

2120
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:37,680
but I did enjoy it.
Loved it.

2121
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:38,920
So are we going to be school
leaders soon?

2122
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:39,800
No.
No.

2123
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:41,840
OK.
Sounds like a lot of effort.

2124
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:43,880
And maybe we can finish with
that.

2125
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:46,840
Huge respect for school leaders.
Yeah, I honestly really do.

2126
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,320
And again, sometimes we talk
about bad school leaders.

2127
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:52,120
Yeah, for a number of reasons,
OK.

2128
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:56,160
In the past, we've witnessed it.
We see it so much online.

2129
01:17:56,280 --> 01:18:00,080
I see stories I can't fathom.
And I think that's testament to

2130
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:03,440
the leaders we work with, who I
do genuinely think have our

2131
01:18:03,440 --> 01:18:05,800
interests at heart and still
have these unbelievable

2132
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:07,280
pressures where they've got to
get stuff done as well.

2133
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:08,920
It's such a hard balance to
strike.

2134
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:11,160
I think it's really hard.
And it is not a job for the

2135
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:12,200
faint hearted.
But you know what?

2136
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,000
These things, send them to your
SRT, send them to someone in

2137
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,320
your school.
Do you think they're realistic?

2138
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:18,560
Are they just complete
poppycock?

2139
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:20,560
I don't know.
I don't know where that word

2140
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:22,920
came from either.
I don't think I've ever said

2141
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:24,760
that word in my life.
You've never said that.

2142
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:27,200
Has come out there, but I'm
really interested because I

2143
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:29,080
truly think these could be
implemented.

2144
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:30,320
Yeah, me too.
Yeah.

2145
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:32,960
I agree.
How did you want to end this

2146
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:33,560
episode?
Just.

2147
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:36,440
What I'm thinking of doing is
I'm gonna make a really, really

2148
01:18:36,440 --> 01:18:37,920
impactful point and just cut it
halfway for it.

2149
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:41,320
So the one, the last thing we
want to mention is that it's a,

2150
01:18:41,480 --> 01:18:43,200
it's a must for all primary
schools.

2151
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:44,160
We have to.