Ep 88: The New Proposed OFSTED Reform: Will It Finally 'Raise Standards In Education'?

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach

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Seek, Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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My name is Hayden and it is Cold
Ash.

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It is seriously cold, isn't it?
Dylan, get the beeper out.

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Are we keeping that in then?
Yeah, I'm not responded.

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Be that.
Yeah, OK, we're keeping it.

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I'm not restarting.
We're keeping it.

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OK.
It's gold.

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Don't restart after 10 seconds,
do we?

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There's too much effort.
Yeah, fill my.

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Hands don't touch me.
Fill my hands, please don't

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touch.
Please, just freezing.

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Two things.
Don't touch me anyway, if you

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had lovely hands, which you
don't.

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Horrible, horrible hands.
They just did.

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You need to insult me.
Yeah, I did.

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Because your hands are either
really clammy and sticky and

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horrible or freezing cold.
Is there any point where your

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hands are just a normal
temperature?

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Right now they are so clammy and
freezing cold.

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What do you mean?
I don't know.

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They're just really clammy.
The part and the part of my

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hand, OK, is wet, OK, And the
back of my hand is like an ice

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cube.
You are such a specimen and I

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tell you what I'm saying.
If those aren't aren't watching.

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I'm sat here in a jumper and I'm
freezing cold.

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My hands are freezing.
Dylan's sat in a T-shirt.

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Because it's not that cold.
It is.

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We're in a house.
Very rarely in a house is it

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cold.
Now I.

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Don't know about that.
This guy's house pretty freezing

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all the time.
I'm just always, I'm just a cold

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person.
I just, I think we're very

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different with that.
You're, I mean, to be fair you

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yesterday when it was about -50°
outside, you turned up at my

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house.
I was in three layers and you

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were in a T-shirt outside and
even use it.

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This is probably a little bit a
little bit silly.

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Outdoors, absolutely not.
But you know, I put it down to

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two things.
One, my warm northern blood.

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The further north you're born,
the warm me or blood is just

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true.
The warm me of blood is.

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And the second thing is I'm
already always wearing a layer

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because the hair on my skin,
that's like a sweater in itself,

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but I've basically got an
inverse sweater on.

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I've got a sweater against my
skin and AT shirt on.

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And don't forget the tattoos.
Obviously they help.

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They give another ladder.
They.

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Do the Interstate, they're dark,
so they.

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Yeah.
Trap the heat.

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Yeah, that's right.
Keeps me warm.

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Yeah, only in this 10.
That's why you're in a black

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T-shirt.
And black.

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I get it now.
You're really clever scientist.

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Thank you.
Anyway.

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How are you?
How's your little boy?

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Because he's been poorly.
He has been very poorly.

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Yeah.
Anyone listening who's got

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children?
I think recently I spoke about

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how, oh, the first time they get
ill is not nice, isn't it?

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Which was a few weeks ago, Rory.
And like, a little sniffly cough

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and like, a bit of a snot,
snotty nose.

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And I was like, oh, it's not
nice, is it?

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Shouldn't have already said that
because then we've been 2 two

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weeks, like this weekend, Rory
got RSV for anyone who doesn't

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have kids, which I noticed by
the way, you even know what RSV

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is because you have young
children or you have no idea

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what RSV is.
People are saying what's that?

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And it's just a really bad virus
basically.

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And with young children
specifically, it's quite, can be

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quite dangerous where you know
that oxygen can drop and it can

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cause things like pneumonia and
broncholitis.

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And essentially, Rory, we had to
take him to hospital and we took

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him to A&E for the for children.
And then he ended up having to

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stay the night.
He was on oxygen just to get his

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oxygen levels up.
And it's always scary because

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even though he seems OK in
himself, you see the numbers are

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low and you're like, I know this
could go one of too late.

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He could just deteriorate a bit,
get pneumonia, you know, really

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struggle.
But luckily he stayed the night

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and he recovered really well.
And he just like we slowly

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weaned him off the oxygen and
then he was sent home on the

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Monday.
But they were saying basically

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they think it was broncholitis.
In the end, he ended up with

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he's at home still, you know,
with an asthma pump now getting.

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Getting a steroid, oh, little
boy, but it's.

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Horrible.
It's not nice.

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And yeah, it's one of those
things where, you know, as a

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parent now I realise what other
parents mean when they say you

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kind of just get through it
without thinking.

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Like, yeah, beforehand I'd be
like, oh God, how do you cope?

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How, how can you cope seeing
your little baby?

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You just have to, it's not nice,
but you just have to.

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Yeah.
They needed to put a cannula in

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his foot and they were trying to
put a cannula into his hand.

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They did it like two or three
times but couldn't find the

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vein.
So someone's just stabbing his

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hand.
I'm holding him.

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He's having a breakdown of being
stabbed, screaming, getting

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stabbed by strangers on it.
Literally the next Troy's foot,

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he had something on his big toe
that was monitoring his oxygen

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levels and his blood and his and
his heartbreak.

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Sorry, he had something on his
nose.

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He had strapped in the oxygen
tube, right?

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We had like tubes coming out of
his nose and that was where the

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oxygen was going in and he hated
it.

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He just wanted everything to be
off.

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And he doesn't know, does he?
No, he doesn't know.

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And all he sees are two people
coming in.

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It was Rory's like, he's not.
He doesn't.

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He doesn't smile immediately
when someone comes in.

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He's got a bit of a like face,
like taking everything in, but

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he warms to people.
But it got to the point where if

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someone came to the curtain, it
felt like he was almost scared

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because because he just knew.
Well, that person's wearing what

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all the other nurses wore, and
last time someone came in with a

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needle and they were trying to
get my hands and I really hated

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it.
But yeah, the overall news is

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he's back home, he's fine.
We're not going out anywhere yet

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because it's freezing and we
just do groups and stuff and we

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still obviously got RSV
potentially.

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Yeah, that's contagious.
So the idea of passing that on

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to the people like, you know,
but yeah, he's all good.

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And do you know what two things?
We're very lucky.

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There are other children who are
literally in the ward opposite

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who they were.
They were talking about how

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they've been in hospital for
like 2 weeks.

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They, they won't be in hospital,
they won't get out of hospital

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for another few weeks just
because they need to find out

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what's going on with their
child.

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That child was just sad, you
know, in pain constantly.

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It just puts things, things into
perspective.

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And the other thing is being a
teacher and someone who for the

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last year and a half has really
fought on this podcast and in

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general with my peers to say,
look, we're doing too much, that

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it's not acceptable, it's a job
at the end of the day, blah,

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blah, blah.
OK, you can say it's important

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for the kids.
We all agree with that.

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But come on, there's got to be a
line.

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Then I went in and I was like,
oh cool.

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I I met that nurse who did a 14
hour shift and she started off

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with the most lovely smile.
Really good with Rory, making

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him happy.
She loved him, he loved her.

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Like over the top nights doing
everything she could for us.

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Still the same attitude 14 hours
later when we were getting

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discharged and she was writing
up our notes.

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Amazing people working in the
hospital who just in the

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background, you don't know in
your everyday life, that's

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happening.
Yeah, right now that's

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happening, yeah.
In any hospital near you,

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wherever you're working,
wherever you're listening to

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this podcast, there's a hospital
near you where there's a team of

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like 30 people in one part of
the hospital, which is just the

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children's ward who are working
their socks off because they

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love helping the children and
being completely selfless and

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doing this job because they love
doing it and then not getting

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the praise and recognition they
deserve.

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And there's a lot of them who
don't care and they're just

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doing it anyway, and they're
just the best people.

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And you know what the government
comes to conclusion of?

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Ohh, let's not pay them then.
Yeah, yeah, let's give them a

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clap.
They'll do it anyway, yeah.

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And it's just when you.
That's what.

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That's when we get annoyed.
Yeah, and when you think about

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the people in the government and
the kind of stuff they just,

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they slimy, they don't turn up
for the debates, they don't go

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in and properly talk about
stuff.

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They just.
Think everything's expendable?

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I think it's.
Yeah, I'm getting a cheap dinner

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on the Westminster Cafe because
it's subsidised by the taxpayer.

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And I'm just like, you have no
idea.

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You are honestly disgusting.
And there are some good

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politicians, I know that.
But the whole thing just stinks

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to me.
Yeah, then you know that's going

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on.
For that knowing that they that

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the people that work in the NHS
don't have the same even the

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same system in place where they
could maybe take reap those same

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rewards.
But the point was, you know

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what, we'll come out a bit with
a healthy child and yeah, all

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happy and no, I'm glad.
He's just amazing.

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I'm glad.
I'm glad he's feeling better.

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Well, that's extremely
depressing.

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Should we end the episode there?
No, no, no, no.

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It's good news.
I'm glad, you know, children get

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ill.
We said.

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I was saying to Lauren, my
partner, we were like, do you

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know what?
He just needed a bit of help.

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Yeah, he just needed a bit of
help for a bit.

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And you know what?
We're lucky enough to be in a

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system, although it's breaking.
My child could get that help.

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Yeah.
And that was really.

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Important we live extremely
close to hospital where we are,

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so you could literally just
drive down the road we did and

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get them seen.
So that's.

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Good.
How about your week then?

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Was it a bit less?
I don't know, depressing?

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Yeah.
Do you know what I've had?

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I don't really want to talk
about my week of school because

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it was a very normal week.
Sometimes the weeks of school

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are just totally bog standard.
It was just really, really

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standard.
But I but I have enjoyed.

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We played snooker last night and
we've mentioned this a lot

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recently.
You'll start to realise that we

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get obsessed with things and
we'll do one thing for a while.

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We played a bit of snooker last
night.

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It was really enjoyable.
And I know you know, even you

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last night mentioned it's nice
to just have a bit of downtime

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and it really is.
So last night my partner who's

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also called Lauren, obviously if
you've listened as well, you

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know that she said, oh man, I
just need some time.

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She's like, can I just go?
I'm going to snooker.

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Bye.
Yeah, she's like, I just go.

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Sorry, Lauren, no, you can't.
Because she's also a teacher,

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right?
Yeah.

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Yeah, sorry, I probably should
have put that in context, but

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she was.
I just need some, I need some

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time, especially with a kid as
well because obviously she's

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looking after our our little one
a lot of the time.

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Because she works part time.
She yeah, she works part not

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because.
You're an absent father.

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No, I'm an absent father.
I'm doing the I'm sorry, love.

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I'm busy doing the podcast.
All right?

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I've got 7 episodes to record
this week.

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What do 12 takes because I said
something wrong.

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I'm Dylan freaked out.
Well, you swore after 10 seconds

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today.
And if we did it edit, edit it

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00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,720
out, that would make no sense.
But we didn't because we're

228
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,680
we're just mad now.
Anyway, she was like, can I just

229
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,800
go to the shops for a bit?
Because I just need some time.

230
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,840
I was like, what?
It's 7:00 PM, Like everything's

231
00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:33,840
closed.
She was like, no, just

232
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,200
Sainsbury's.
OK, You do you.

233
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,600
And then when she got back half
eight, I was like, Dylan, I want

234
00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,559
to go play some snooker, but I
don't know, you know, let's talk

235
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,600
about that for a second.
Like switching off in term time.

236
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,760
I mean, how important is it?
What do you do?

237
00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:48,920
I know we do the same.
Sort of, yeah.

238
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,440
No, no is important.
Was your Lauren just quickly?

239
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,400
Did she?
But did she feel refreshed?

240
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:54,400
Yeah, she did.
Yeah, she did.

241
00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:56,880
Honestly, just from spending an
hour, an hour and a half maybe

242
00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,800
in Sainsbury's, just without.
The whole point was without

243
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:00,320
river.
Yeah.

244
00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,240
So it's just baby free time.
I can just actually look at the

245
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:04,720
clothes.
She wants to look on Christmas

246
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,080
pyjamas and that river.
Crying.

247
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,360
Very screaming to move on or
grabbing everything.

248
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,280
OK, just go and have a better.
Time, I suppose the reason I

249
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,760
asked that was because anyone
listening, that's a point I

250
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,640
wanted to make.
It doesn't have to be a flashy

251
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,160
thing.
No, you don't have to go to the

252
00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:18,600
pub.
You know, it's nice to go to the

253
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:19,680
pub.
That might be one way that you

254
00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:22,200
do that and you cordon off your
time and you just go and do it.

255
00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:26,000
Find what works for you, because
what works for me I've found,

256
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,720
and I've known this for a long
time and I think I've touched

257
00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,720
upon this previously, what works
for me to switch off is doing

258
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,080
something that seems just
completely innate where it's

259
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,600
I'm, I'm playing snooker.
Yeah, I'm, I'm and I can really

260
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,800
zone in.
I'm just thinking where can I

261
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,000
hit that ball that hits the
other ball that goes in the

262
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,800
pocket?
It's like solving a problem.

263
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,880
It's like doing maths.
But in that moment I am not

264
00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,720
thinking about anything outside
of the snooker.

265
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,760
So me and you might go together,
play snooker, play snooker.

266
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,120
My other friend as well will go
and we will talk about nothing

267
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,000
like like genuinely nothing.
And that's great because we, we

268
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,600
spend a lot of time talking you
and I about the state of stuff.

269
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,040
It's quite heavy.
We do the education on the

270
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,040
podcast and all that kind of
thing.

271
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,040
Do you know what?
Sometimes we go snooker and we

272
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,400
will chat nonsense and I after
half an hour I wouldn't be able

273
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,400
to tell someone what we've been.
Talking now or we'll be honestly

274
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:13,240
quiet.
Yeah.

275
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:14,360
Because.
Because most of the time you're

276
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:15,600
just.
You're being quite anyway, out

277
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,600
of respect and Snooky let the
other person play a shot and

278
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,640
then you find all that just kind
of continuously.

279
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,880
And now it's awkward.
You just, you're just doing your

280
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,400
thing, yeah.
It helps switch off and you're

281
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,280
really you like you took it
really well when I won last

282
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,240
night as well.
I think that's worth mentioning.

283
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,360
Like you took it really well and
I won 3232 to me, I.

284
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:31,880
Thought you're being.
Genuine.

285
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,720
I know you can see your face.
And I was like, I'm gonna ruin

286
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:34,800
him.
I'm gonna ruin like, did I?

287
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,360
Yeah.
I was just.

288
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,480
I was literally doing nothing
but trolling.

289
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:39,760
You there?
The whole time I was talking

290
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,040
about really genuine ways to
switch off.

291
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:42,640
You were just like, how can I
get an IBM?

292
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,840
How can I, how can I get an IBM?
Because I beat him.

293
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:46,920
And that isn't gonna help him
switch off knowing that he's

294
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,120
lost.
He's lost.

295
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:49,800
I'm gonna tell him I tell you
what makes me feel great.

296
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,280
I went home thinking I'm a
winner.

297
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,480
I'm a winner today, you know,
and.

298
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,840
But that's what I do to switch
off.

299
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,120
I will try and find some time
and weird and honestly anyone

300
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,240
they see.
Again, I'm talking to myself

301
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,040
from four years ago as well, so
don't think I'm being

302
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,000
condescending here.
Oh my gosh.

303
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,720
Please take advantage of the
time you have.

304
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,880
If you're planning on having
children at some point, or even

305
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,480
if you're not, that's great.
And I've got nothing against

306
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,680
that.
Please be aware of the free time

307
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:18,440
that you do have.
Like, yeah, I know, I know

308
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,600
education is full of doing extra
work and stuff we talk about all

309
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,480
the time, but you still do have
them Chuck Nuggets of time and

310
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:24,680
Oh my gosh, yeah, make the most
of.

311
00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:26,200
Them you don't have to, you
don't have to.

312
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,200
Like I think some people feel
like we talked about the last

313
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,400
two episodes about teacher
Martyrs where we went a bit

314
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,360
uninged.
I think, you know, I sort of

315
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,280
talked about these teachers that
maybe don't have certain

316
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:37,480
responsibility.
They don't have children,

317
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,280
perhaps I don't have other
responsibilities, I don't know,

318
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,400
whatever it is.
And then they sort of think to

319
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,560
themselves, well, I've got this
free time.

320
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:46,000
I probably should do that extra
planning, that extra marking.

321
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,840
They almost like convince
themselves I've not got those

322
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,520
other things to take up my time,
so I should.

323
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:50,840
No, you don't.
You know what?

324
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,000
You don't have to have kids to
then have to then finally put

325
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,120
your foot down exactly and be
like, no, I actually can't do

326
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,360
this anymore because I literally
have a child to look after.

327
00:11:57,560 --> 00:11:59,640
No, we just do that anyway.
Yeah, it's because it's a job.

328
00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,320
Yeah, that's the reason why.
And when people ask me, did Rory

329
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,080
change that because they hear
what I'm saying now, I'm not

330
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,160
like, oh, you're quite steadfast
about this, actually.

331
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:07,360
You're really, really on the
ball.

332
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:10,800
Is was it because of Rory?
And I go out of my way to say

333
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,560
no.
Yeah, I was doing in this

334
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:14,880
anyway.
Rory might have accelerated it

335
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,080
because it it became less of a
choice of me choosing to do.

336
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:19,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And more necessity.

337
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,400
But I was already on this path,
and I think everyone should be.

338
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,800
And I don't think parents have a
monopoly on caring about their

339
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,280
free time.
No, don't let anyone say that to

340
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,360
you.
You don't have kids.

341
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,160
So what?
Your time is just as valuable as

342
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,320
my time.
Yes, I've chosen to have a child

343
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:35,280
and I'm going to raise that
child.

344
00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:36,920
And that's really important for
society.

345
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,800
That's true.
And I'm happy to say that.

346
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,080
And if you don't have children
or can't have children, you are

347
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:43,800
still just as valuable to
society.

348
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,480
Don't let someone saying that
about them raising children make

349
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,480
you feel less worthful.
Worthful, worthwhile, worthwhile

350
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,520
because it's just not true.
You are just as worthwhile.

351
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,000
Your time is just as valuable.
You can say no just as much as I

352
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,400
can.
I don't want to ever rest on the

353
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,440
fact that I've got a child as a
reason why I'm saying no.

354
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,920
No because of Rory.
No, no, no, no, because it's my

355
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:04,440
weekend.
And that's the same for

356
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:05,080
everyone.
I think that's.

357
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,080
Powerful.
It's a really good point.

358
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,760
That's a really good point.
And I think I fall into the trap

359
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,640
of saying of using river as a
bit of a scapegoat, as a bit of

360
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,480
a reason to justify.
And actually I'm going to try

361
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:13,880
and stop doing that.
I'm going to try and start

362
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:15,600
saying no because it's the
weekend.

363
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,840
Not no, because I've got my, you
know, oh, it's my kids party

364
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,040
this weekend.
So I'm not going to get any.

365
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,800
No, no, no, no, it's the
weekend.

366
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:21,920
What do you stop talking to?
Me.

367
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,040
Your kids play.
The work is honestly no more

368
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:25,880
important than someone going to
visit their friend.

369
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,520
Yeah.
Down in Cumbria, sit down and

370
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,480
watch the TV series because it's
the weekend.

371
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:30,920
It's your downtime.
Yeah, enjoy it.

372
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,440
Another nice thing is before we
move on.

373
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,320
Yeah, because I because I know
you see it all the time.

374
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,080
And when you send, when you send
me messages from Instagram or

375
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,760
e-mail where people where you
guys write in to us, I just love

376
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,560
it.
And yesterday I still don't

377
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:44,120
reply to this guy because he we
got an e-mail from someone in

378
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,840
Australia.
And it was so nice to hear that

379
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,720
people relate to us.
This guy was basically writing

380
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,680
and saying, Oh my God, I can
relate so much to this podcast,

381
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:54,720
even from around the world, you
know, about, about all the stuff

382
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,800
we're talking about teaching
martyrs and the state of

383
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,080
education and.
What?

384
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,160
We even read it, didn't we?
Well, you, you read most of it

385
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,960
and showed me and I and we said
we can't reply yet because we

386
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,240
want to give it a really.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

387
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,480
We didn't want to do it in it
like did do a classic like, oh,

388
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:08,680
thanks for writing, Inmate.
Yeah, really nice to hear that.

389
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:10,360
Glad you love it.
I don't want to do that.

390
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:11,680
I want to prop.
I want to have a real

391
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,040
conversation with this person.
So if you're listening, if you

392
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,320
know who you are for some
reason, then then I will reply

393
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,080
properly.
Hopefully I have by now.

394
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:19,440
No, it's nice, but I see it all
the time.

395
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,440
See it all the time.
Comes in on Instagram at TCP

396
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:22,680
Podcast.
Guys do follow us.

397
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,600
It really, it really does make
our day when we get people

398
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:26,720
messaging saying we listen to
you.

399
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,080
Yeah, someone messaged the other
day saying you make my Monday

400
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,320
evening dog walk and I'm just
like the idea that we are part

401
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,800
of a routine for.
Something I love that.

402
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,120
Where they know Monday's OK,
Monday, cool, I'll get through

403
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,400
Monday this evening, going to
walk the dog, listen to CHT,

404
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:41,920
repeat.
And I'm like, Oh my God, that's

405
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,080
insane to me.
That's the idea that exists.

406
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,440
Fuels my ego.
It does.

407
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:46,600
It does.
It makes me want to do this

408
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,080
more.
It's good, you know, this, this

409
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:49,960
in all honesty.
I mean, we're like, what, 88

410
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,320
episodes into this?
We did.

411
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:52,400
We're doing this for a laugh
still.

412
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:53,800
Yeah.
This is just a passion project.

413
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,320
We do it for fun.
We like talking about stuff.

414
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,720
We'd have this chat anyway and
we thought why not record it

415
00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,120
because some people might want
to listen as well.

416
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,920
So the fact that you guys here
giving us love, we absolutely

417
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,040
love it.
But we still get, we still get,

418
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,440
I know I'm just going to trigger
you now because you see it and

419
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,200
I'm lucky to be away from this,
but we still get the odd comment

420
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:10,920
and we're talking like 2% of
people.

421
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,000
It would just make some crappy
comment to us or what was.

422
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,640
It well, they fall into two
categories, these comments,

423
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,480
right?
There's one type of comment

424
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:24,160
which is genuinely just hateful.
Like just doesn't care.

425
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,000
It's almost as if they've not
listened to the video we posted.

426
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:28,440
It doesn't matter, they just
don't let teachers.

427
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,280
Cool.
Honestly, troll them, ignore

428
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,440
them, I'll reply something silly
or just be annoying.

429
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,920
Right.
And the other type are people

430
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,440
who understand what they're
talking about.

431
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,560
But we'll then try and say that
we're bad teachers.

432
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,000
I'm just like, I think that's
worse.

433
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,600
Yeah, but if you're just a
general troll, you're an idiot.

434
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:46,560
Yeah.
I've not even got time.

435
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:47,480
Yeah, exactly.
Not even gonna.

436
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,680
It's water off, ducks back.
Sake comment Reply finally.

437
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,000
Whatever.
There was someone the other day

438
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,960
I did a meme about there's, you
know, that one child in your

439
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,080
class who still doesn't listen
to you after 17 times of

440
00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:58,120
explaining to it.
Yeah.

441
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,600
And someone commented going a
whole class doesn't know what

442
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,280
you're doing.
You must be a bad teacher.

443
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,080
And I just replied saying, well,
you must have had a bad one

444
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:06,680
because I don't know where you
got the whole class from.

445
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,640
Like it was just it.
Just says one child in it.

446
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,800
Honestly I was like cool, that's
the water off ducks back and

447
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,880
similarly someone else the other
day but they felt like they were

448
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,440
being serious.
I did a post from last episode

449
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,720
about teacher martyrs and I
spoke about how sometimes the

450
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,360
solution is saying no because
we're obsessed in education.

451
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,680
And I think in most walks of
life where if you remotely dare

452
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,480
to suggest something isn't
working, you must have a a way

453
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,920
of coming back at it and having.
Like an alternative.

454
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,400
And I think that's good.
And I think we do that a lot on

455
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:36,720
the podcast.
We're always looking for a

456
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,800
solution.
And all I said was though that

457
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,600
there is sometimes where no is
the answer and the solution is

458
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,440
to not do it.
So when are you going to get

459
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,000
that display done?
I'm not.

460
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,640
But that that's the solution.
Just don't do it.

461
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,080
And someone commented on that
saying Oh well, you'll never get

462
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,160
a job with that attitude.
Did you see the?

463
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,360
Bio where I said that we're two
primary school teachers who also

464
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,400
have a business on the side and
we like there's there's no part

465
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,200
of this that we don't work.
What are you?

466
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,400
Talking about nuts, do you find
from your because you chat to a

467
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,160
lot of people that there is AI
don't know if I'm being really

468
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,079
stereotypical here.
Is is there a little bit of a

469
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,640
disconnect you think between
generations like ages of people.

470
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,960
Do you find that that people
that comment that are normally

471
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,400
of that older generation where
the culture just it just was

472
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,400
different in like the 80s and
90s, it was different, work

473
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,720
culture was different.
Or is it just random?

474
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,160
Is it just?
No, do you know what?

475
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,160
I'm going to be really, really
clear how I word this, OK?

476
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,000
When we get nice comments, it's
from a wide range of ages, a

477
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,360
very wide range of ages.
There's no one age where I go,

478
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,600
oh, it's you.
What we get a lot of is a lot of

479
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,800
new teachers who just resonate a
lot more of what we're saying.

480
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:42,440
That's just because of what
we're talking about.

481
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,800
But when we get nice comments,
it's any age.

482
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,720
I've, I've spoken to older,
older teachers, middle teachers,

483
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,200
younger teachers, really nice.
When we get nasty comments, it's

484
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,760
one of two things, right?
When it's teachers, they're

485
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,440
older, right?
OK.

486
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:57,520
When when it's teachers, they're
older.

487
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,800
And they'll say, oh, I've taught
for 45 years.

488
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,120
It's always been hard workload.
What you moaning about?

489
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:03,640
You just got to do it.
Do it for the kids.

490
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,360
And I don't think they quite
understand how times have

491
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:06,640
changed.
I don't think they quite

492
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,200
understand how much pay has been
squeezed.

493
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,520
They're sitting in their house
they bought for 40 grand when

494
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,400
they're on 30 grand in the 80s,
OK.

495
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,560
I don't think they quite get how
the difference is now in terms

496
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,320
of even if expectation has
stayed the same, what we're

497
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,840
getting out of it as a society,
as a person, as a young person

498
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,200
in this country is much less
than they were getting out of

499
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,840
it.
And that builds resentment and

500
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:25,960
that's normal and that's
acceptable.

501
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,360
They don't accept that.
They just say no, you should get

502
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:29,200
on with it.
Just get on with it.

503
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:29,960
Do it.
Stiff up a lip.

504
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,240
You stop being your avocados
where your Netflix and just we

505
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:34,480
didn't.
Have avocados.

506
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,600
Netflix when we were young.
Exactly, you also had to spend

507
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,320
10 buttons on a new door.
So, you know, give and take.

508
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:44,360
And the other group are younger
people who do angry comments.

509
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:46,920
Yeah, who aren't in teaching.
Right, OK.

510
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,280
OK.
And and there's some older ones,

511
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:49,920
but when they're younger and
they give hungry comments, it

512
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:50,880
tends to be they're not in
teaching.

513
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,280
Yeah.
And they'll say something along

514
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,360
the lines of you sound like a
bad teacher.

515
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:56,200
I wouldn't want my kids to have
you as a teacher.

516
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,600
Yeah.
And I'm just like, you have not

517
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,400
got the slightest clue how much
how passionate I am about

518
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:02,480
helping children.
Yeah.

519
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,440
And how honestly, at this point
in my career, good.

520
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:06,920
I am teaching children.
Yeah.

521
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,680
And what I'm saying on Instagram
to a real to my fellow

522
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,680
professional that we put out
there for people to listen about

523
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,440
what teachings like is not what
I'm putting out there for my

524
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:15,960
children in an English lesson.
No, no.

525
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,280
Are you insane?
Did you not intelligent enough

526
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,520
to separate these two things out
where I can complain and say

527
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,200
things are broken without then
of course, I'm completely

528
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,680
shielding my children, my class
from that.

529
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,360
I'm going to give them the best.
Thing, I guess it is nuance,

530
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:29,600
isn't it?
People don't know that.

531
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,440
People don't understand the
nuance and rather than

532
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,720
recognising maybe I don't
understand the nuance of this

533
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,960
and that this has triggered me
in some sort of way, but I'll

534
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,080
leave it because I probably just
don't understand something like

535
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,040
profession.
This is much more tempting and

536
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,320
easy just to be a keep up
warrior.

537
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,000
Yeah, I've been there, done it.
I've been the people.

538
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,080
Warrior, you've done it in a
different.

539
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:46,560
God day done it.
Yeah, I go on everyone else's

540
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,040
profession.
I follow every profession except

541
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,760
teaching on Instagram.
And I'll come and say, oh, think

542
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,480
your job's hard.
Do you try teaching race on the

543
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,680
bottom, baby, Try this
everyone's job.

544
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:55,960
That's all I do.
Yeah, it's never.

545
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,080
Oh, that's true.
It's always.

546
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,040
I'm worse than you.
Yeah, I've got it worse than

547
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,320
you.
Teachers always moan.

548
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:01,880
How about your 13 weeks holiday?
How about you?

549
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,280
Enjoy them, yeah.
Do you want to join team?

550
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,920
Yeah, come on, do it then.
My goodness, right.

551
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,680
I think we should move on to the
main Barclays episode.

552
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,200
I'm looking forward to this
because for the first time, and

553
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,560
I think the whole history of the
podcast, you know more about

554
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,480
something than I do.
That's that's unbelievable.

555
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:16,360
I don't know.
We'll find out.

556
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,280
Offset a bit in the news in the
last couple of weeks, never out

557
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,720
the news it seems but big news
with Austed, which is proposals.

558
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,120
I don't know if they were leaked
or if they were kind of released

559
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:30,800
to see what people think or if
it was on purpose.

560
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,120
But either way we've got an idea
of what Ofsted want to do from

561
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:38,440
September 2025.
S very, very brief recap Ofsted

562
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,840
for a long time are facing
pressure because they were just

563
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,040
too draconian and and instilling
fear in schools and not seen as

564
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,960
useful from educators and unions
were saying this needs to

565
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,120
change.
The general election happened

566
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,160
and it seemed like lots of
things moved quite quickly,

567
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,720
especially with the incident of
Ruth Perry.

568
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,280
And I feel like in the last
couple of years it was like, OK,

569
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,680
we're going to move towards
reforming Ofsted.

570
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,680
Everyone thought that was great.
People trust that it was going

571
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,280
to happen.
I'm not sure, but we're moving

572
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:04,480
towards, OK, we're going to do
that.

573
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,280
And the old met the old way.
We're going to more detail in a

574
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,080
second.
They brought in some immediate

575
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,720
changes.
So Labour said no, no, we're

576
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,680
going to change this right now
from September 24 because this

577
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,200
needs action right now.
Yeah.

578
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:19,600
And then they were basically
given from September 24 to

579
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,320
September 25 to come up with a
whole new framework of how

580
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,040
Ofsted works.
Yeah.

581
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,440
So that's where we're at at a
minute.

582
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,880
And what's just happened is
we're in in the moment.

583
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,840
We're in the interim kind of
period of some changes of having

584
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,160
to Ofsted, others haven't.
And what's been leaked is what

585
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,560
the plans are for the future.
And, and it feels like it's

586
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,800
sparked a lot of controversy, a
lot of uproar.

587
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,480
So I'm going to throw over to
you because you've done a lot of

588
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,400
research on this.
I think before we get into what

589
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,480
the new system that's being
proposed is and whether it's

590
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,840
good or bad or whatever our
opinions are, let's just clarify

591
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,400
very quickly for people.
Then this kind of three-step

592
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,400
process I'm seeing with Ofsted,
which is the old method, Labour

593
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,160
come in and say we're going to
get rid of stuff straight away.

594
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,080
So the interim method and then
we'll maybe we'll dive into what

595
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,480
the changes will actually be.
That sounds good.

596
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,600
So Ofsted traditionally so last
few years before September this

597
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,600
year, What did an offset
inspection look like?

598
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,360
Yeah, let's just go the big
bits, especially the bits that

599
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:11,680
people had a problem with,
right.

600
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,760
So Ofsted traditionally for all
of my career and longer has been

601
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,000
this, this force of driving
standards up, which is what they

602
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,200
say, OK, however that their
system involves, it's a one more

603
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,000
grading system essentially.
This is what people have a real

604
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,880
big problem with is the fact
that a school is judged after

605
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,720
the whole Ofsted procedures
happened and they get one word

606
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:30,080
and it's not even a massive
scale.

607
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,560
It's not like there's 1010
points on this scale and there's

608
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:33,680
like, oh, you're somewhere in
this.

609
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,640
It's literally just basically
you have a good amazing all your

610
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:37,800
crap.
And that's what they did.

611
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,040
They came into schools and did
that.

612
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,880
And obviously that you spoke
about Ruth Perry, that is the

613
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,360
perfect example of how that
system was so flawed and just

614
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:50,440
absolutely decimated schools
over potentially 1 area that

615
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,400
needed improvement in school and
everyone else working hard.

616
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:53,600
They've got this one word
grading.

617
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:54,760
Oh, we've all worked so hard,
don't we?

618
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,560
They said English was really
good and I'm the English lead.

619
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,400
Your school, though, requires
improvement, right?

620
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,200
Oh, OK.
Brilliant.

621
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,560
So that that that was the old
system.

622
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:02,560
You didn't know when they were
coming.

623
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:04,760
Yeah.
So another huge factor of stress

624
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,880
was you.
Honestly, I remember because we

625
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,720
went through the Ofsted
procedure not long ago, head

626
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,280
teachers would just wait every
day just thinking, we know we're

627
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,080
in the Ofsted window because
it's been X amount of years and

628
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,480
all that school up the road has
been ofsteaded.

629
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,280
And normally we get Ofsted after
them every day waiting till

630
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,800
12:00 thinking oh, is that phone
going to ring?

631
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,160
Is that phone going to ring?
Is that phone going to ring?

632
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,600
Because I'll tell you what,
because they got, because when

633
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,760
they ring, they come in the next
day, you get no time to prep

634
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,320
whatsoever.
So that was another huge, huge

635
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,400
problem.
And just I guess, summarising

636
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,240
the system, there were different
types of inspections.

637
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,880
I'm not going to go into the
details of what they are.

638
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,320
You just need to know that they
were full inspections and there

639
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,280
were other inspections for
schools where they basically

640
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,800
just come in and check that to
see if you're still the same

641
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,280
grading.
That was a different type of

642
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,920
inspection to a full one.
But yeah, there were different

643
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,760
types of inspections.
Inspectors would come in a team,

644
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,200
it could be one person, could be
6 people depending on the size

645
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,800
of your school.
They come in, they scrutinise

646
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,800
certain areas, they deep dive.
So again, not always been like

647
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,040
that, but in the last couple of
years they've had a deep dive

648
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,120
system where they'd come in and
say, we're going to look at this

649
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:04,040
subject and this subject and we
are, we are going to literally

650
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,840
deep dive into it.
And we're going to look at every

651
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,040
possible aspect of that subject
in your school and like really,

652
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,160
really scrutinise deep.
And if you're the geography lead

653
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:13,760
in a, in a, we will still do
geography.

654
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,360
You're geography lead in a
primary school.

655
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,040
You're sat there thinking like
sweating thing.

656
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,360
Oh God, I've not been paid
anything for this.

657
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,120
I don't, I've had absolutely no
time out to to do this.

658
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:22,320
And they're going to come in and
scrutinise every single element

659
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,600
of geography in my primary
school.

660
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,280
Very stressful.
Very.

661
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,160
Stressful.
So hopefully I got across that

662
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,800
idea of stress from the old
system.

663
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,000
That the what you've summarised
really well there, just to jump

664
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,640
in is, is why schools,
particular educators were not

665
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,360
happy with the current system.
You can see why the government

666
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,680
might have been happy with it,
the the parents might have been

667
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,760
happy with it.
I had a message this week from

668
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,360
one of my close friends whose
child is starting school the

669
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,440
next couple of years.
And he sent me a couple of

670
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,040
websites from different schools
in the area.

671
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,160
And he said to me, because he
listens to the podcast and and

672
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,200
this was really interesting
because I thought, oh, OK, this

673
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,160
is something we need to think
about.

674
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,440
He said to me, hey, pick in
between these two schools.

675
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,440
How would you do it if I wasn't
looking at the Ofsted of a

676
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,880
sport?
So his point was, as an

677
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,560
educators, we say, guys, there's
nuance here.

678
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,000
You can't just look at the one
word.

679
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,480
You can't just look at that
school's outstanding.

680
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,720
That school's good.
It doesn't necessarily tell you

681
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,520
the whole picture, but it really
opened my eyes to thinking,

682
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,400
okay, if you're not in this
industry, though, perhaps that

683
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,760
system has got a little bit of
an ounce of defence to it

684
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:24,720
because a parent can look at it
and very quickly go, well, I

685
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,840
want to get into the outstanding
school.

686
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,160
Yeah, Now, I, I don't get me
wrong, I, I had a whole

687
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,080
conversation with him about
whether that's the right thing

688
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,480
to do or not, what might be
good, what might be bad.

689
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,440
But the point being that this
system was well known by parents

690
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,080
as well.
And when educators come along

691
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,400
and say, no, no, no, it's too
simple.

692
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,840
We need to change all of this.
I can kind of see why some

693
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,640
people might be like, oh, I, I
get your concerns, but like, OK,

694
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,240
So what do I do otherwise?
Then yeah, yeah, yeah.

695
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,600
It's extremely easy to have the
old system.

696
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,760
Like, you know, what's more
simple than one word genuinely

697
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,760
for parents.
So I get it, you know, I can see

698
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,480
why that's desirable.
But but like you said, equally,

699
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,280
you know, with your friend,
luckily was you know, I guess

700
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,360
maybe if we listen to this or
just knowing you in general was

701
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,560
knowledgeable enough to be like,
OK, this is probably not that.

702
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,920
You know, everything.
I should base this off, but

703
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,880
yeah, you know, Ofsted in, you
know, we've said it in long ago

704
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,680
in episode it.
There should it should be a

705
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,120
system where parents actually,
rather than just having one

706
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,480
word, they can actually they're
guided towards the things they

707
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:18,880
should think about.
Your friend didn't know what to

708
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:19,520
look at.
Yeah.

709
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,120
And you probably said, well,
maybe go in and look at the

710
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,360
provision.
Maybe, you know, maybe, OK,

711
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,000
maybe think about your child
specifically.

712
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,080
Yeah, Yeah, I think what do they
need and go and see if the

713
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:28,760
school does that.
Sure.

714
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,880
Because I tell you what, they'll
be outstanding schools that will

715
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,760
absolutely not meet the needs of
your specific child.

716
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,640
And there'll be good schools
that definitely do.

717
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:35,840
But they didn't take all the
boxes.

718
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,680
They didn't get outstanding and
so it's like we spoke before, it

719
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,400
was like Carwyn Ofsted needs a
we need a way for parents to get

720
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,520
the proper information.
So true, and the information

721
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,120
parents need is sometimes
different to what educators

722
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:48,960
want.
So for example, my first thought

723
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,560
of that was I'll say something
about, oh, we'll see what

724
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,040
teacher retention is like.
That's usually a good

725
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,960
indication.
And and for people wanting to

726
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,160
work there, if I wanted to get a
job, that's one of the first

727
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,320
things I'd look at.
It's probably not the first

728
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,360
thing I'd look at as a parent
though, if I was just a parent

729
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:05,200
looking at a school.
I know some schools right, where

730
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,200
staff turnover is not good, but
the children get an excellent

731
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,160
deal and and there is a
disconnect there.

732
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,160
And I'm just saying if it's just
a parent's point of view, not

733
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,160
trying to fix education, he's
just seeing what, what school to

734
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,920
send his kid to that not
necessarily the same.

735
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,960
So there is nuance here.
It's tricky.

736
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,880
That's why we want something a
bit more, I don't know,

737
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,640
detailed, let's say we're going
to change the system, but the,

738
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,720
the main driving force to go
back to what you said,

739
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,840
everything you just summarised
about the old system was that

740
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,240
for educators, it was
unbelievably stressful.

741
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,800
There was an unknown tool, you
had a lucky dip almost of

742
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,000
inspectors in terms of whoever
you got honestly, you I've

743
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,920
spoken to schools who had
inspectors who are maths

744
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,120
specialists and as a maths lead
you could say to them, well, we

745
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:46,280
do this, this and this.
The maths specialist inspector

746
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,520
kind of just gets that and says,
oh, I understand, that's

747
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,040
excellent, sounds great.
They'll get another inspector in

748
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,640
a different school who I've
spoken to where the Chief

749
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,120
Inspector, there is nothing to
do with maths, maybe an English

750
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,520
specialist as a maths lead.
They were saying we do this,

751
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,320
this and this, and the inspector
kind of was like, oh, I'm going

752
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:02,560
to need to see some evidence of
that.

753
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,080
Where can I see the book?
So I don't understand what you

754
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,360
mean.
Or I've been given this

755
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,000
framework and I don't know if
that matches up when actually

756
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,520
what they're doing is fine.
Yeah.

757
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,920
So that kind of lucky different
inspectors as well was a big

758
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:13,680
thing.
Yeah.

759
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,720
Yeah.
So thinking about what offset

760
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,840
was like.
Yeah, obviously Labour win the

761
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,520
general election, a big thing
for Labour.

762
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,560
Labour always are trying to
portray themselves as huge in

763
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,040
education on the side of
teachers.

764
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,840
Most teachers vote for Labour,
so they've got a vested interest

765
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,360
in keeping that core community
happy with them.

766
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,920
So Labour very quickly said, OK,
we're going to change some stuff

767
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,680
immediately.
Yeah, on the top down.

768
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,280
What?
What did they change then?

769
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,080
As of September this year,
because there'll be some people

770
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,920
who've have Ofsted, he'll be
thinking this is pretty much the

771
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:40,600
same.
What do you mean?

772
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,920
I don't know it, you know what
it will, it will feel that it

773
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,280
will feel mostly the same
because what they changed was

774
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,680
was the easier things they could
change quickly.

775
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,720
They scrapped the one word
gradings right straight away.

776
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,000
So there's no day.
Because I heard we still got one

777
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,400
word gradings right?
Like.

778
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,000
There's no overall grading,
right?

779
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,400
OK, There's no overall grading.
So the school like you know, the

780
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,720
banners where people put Ask
School is outstanding.

781
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:01,280
They scrapped the overall
grades.

782
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,640
They still look at the area.
So the key that there are four

783
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,840
areas that Ofsted have
traditionally you like looked at

784
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,560
into at your school.
And that's not changed, Yeah.

785
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,640
That's not changed.
And those four areas would then

786
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,040
kind of amount to this overall
grading where like, you know,

787
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,400
somewhat tangibly to this
overall.

788
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,080
So they've scrapped the overall
grading.

789
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,840
So they but they will still go
into your school and grade you

790
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,560
on the quality of education,
behaviour and attitudes,

791
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,480
personal development and
leadership and management,

792
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,920
though they're the four areas
that are that pre existed with

793
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,200
Ofsted still currently exist in
this interim.

794
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,160
They just won't at the end of it
say so.

795
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,400
Therefore, your school is good
all right.

796
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,640
That sounds like a good thing.
That sounds like a good thing

797
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,080
because you're still grading
areas, which we all agree we

798
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,760
kind of need to do, right?
And maybe not officially grade

799
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,640
them, but we need to know areas
going on.

800
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,840
Yeah, but we don't then say,
okay, so let's say we got good,

801
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,040
good, good, outstanding.
The school would be good.

802
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,000
Yeah, right.
It might be very easy to lose

803
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,960
the fact that quality of
education at that school is

804
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:55,800
outstanding.
Exactly.

805
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,280
And as a parent, you might love
the idea of okay, but the

806
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,640
education, Oh my gosh, my kids
gonna get the best education

807
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,800
ever.
And the behaviour is outstanding

808
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,200
as well.
Let's just say, yeah, but the

809
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,440
leadership of management is
good.

810
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:06,760
The personal development is
good.

811
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,840
OK well, as my as a father of a
child, behaviour and learning is

812
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,640
outstanding, though, even though
the school's good.

813
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,880
Yeah yeah, yeah.
And and that, that kind of level

814
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,600
of nuance, I think is an
improvement.

815
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:17,000
I agree.
I.

816
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,480
Think it's a step in the right
direction.

817
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,240
I think it just, you think
there's going to be a certain

818
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,600
percentage of parents who even
if that was on the report card

819
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,400
originally, which it was, and
often if you really look at the

820
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,320
report, you would have seen
those things underneath the

821
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,440
overall grading.
It just there, There would have

822
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,160
been a lot of parents who only
look at the overall grading

823
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,080
though and stop there.
And actually now it's like,

824
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,800
well, no one can do that.
And now you have to look at the

825
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,280
four areas and you, you are
automatically getting a slightly

826
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,480
better understanding of that.
School and when, when you move

827
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,560
house, I know we've both gone
through the process of moving

828
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,080
house.
We moved house knowing that Rory

829
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,080
was on the way.
So it became a thing just to

830
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,480
look at school catchment.
Never before we even considered

831
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,320
it.
And when you move house and

832
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,800
you're on that right move or
Zoopla and stuff, it will list

833
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,240
education because it knows it's
a big thing.

834
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,520
But it only says school grading.
So say, oh, God, I'm going to

835
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,440
move to this area because there
are two outstanding schools

836
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,320
there.
Oh, that that area has three

837
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,080
good schools.
So we we want to move to this

838
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,040
area here.
It would affect house prices.

839
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:09,640
Yeah.
Yeah.

840
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,920
And you know what?
In five years, it could flip.

841
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Yeah.
It could change.

842
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,360
And it became so important and
it's malleable and people forget

843
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,720
that.
You know, you could you could

844
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,960
have the idea now with Rory.
He's just turn one.

845
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,160
Yeah.
We might have an idea in our

846
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,280
heads now.
Oh, we want to send it to this

847
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,760
school.
Four years is a long time in

848
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,880
school and.
And, you know, you can't plan

849
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,200
that far ahead.
And one word, gradings

850
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,720
perpetuate this myth that there
are outstanding schools.

851
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:32,840
There are good schools.
That's better.

852
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:33,640
That's worse.
Yeah.

853
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,760
I agree.
I think that's a really, really

854
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,280
good point.
So also in this interim system,

855
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,400
so that was the only that was
like the biggest change was they

856
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,200
they just immediately scrapped
those overall gradings because

857
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,080
that was like the big thing the
label were like, we're going to

858
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,120
do this.
You know, they got a lot of

859
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,160
votes from that, I reckon, but
other things they did.

860
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,480
So there's another thing called
ungraded inspections and I was

861
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,240
kind of getting on to early like
the different types of

862
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,320
inspections.
This is one of them.

863
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,440
An ungraded inspection is when
when officer come in to a school

864
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,160
and it's not a full inspection.
Maybe seven years ago, your

865
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,640
school got good and they're just
coming in basically to check

866
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,760
that you're still at that level.
So this is this is specifically

867
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,280
for schools who are outstanding
or good.

868
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:07,360
Outstanding or good.
Yeah.

869
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,240
And they come in to see if
you're still at that level, if

870
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,640
they feel for any reason you're
not.

871
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,000
This is what we had.
This is why I know about this,

872
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,200
because we had this.
If they feel for any reason your

873
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,440
school is no longer that grading
because it's even better or they

874
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,520
think it's worth then then it
will trigger one of those full

875
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,480
inspections.
So for ungraded inspections

876
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:22,800
there's a few more things I'll
whiz through.

877
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,120
No more deep dives effective
immediately.

878
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,280
They're just looking at subjects
more in general.

879
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,000
So no more deep dives.
Great stress off of.

880
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,240
That so if your school's already
good or outstanding, you no

881
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,160
longer need to worry about the
fact they might come in deep

882
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,200
dive geography even though
you're just being given

883
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,960
geography, then you got nothing.
To do exactly, they're still,

884
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,720
they're not going to not look at
any subjects, but they're not

885
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,360
going to be like, where are you
looking at geography today?

886
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,320
Like in so much.
And it was very much like here's

887
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,800
2 subjects out of nine and we're
only going to look at these

888
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,960
history of maths.
Yeah, that's what it was,

889
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,280
history.
And they absolutely spend the

890
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:48,760
entire time looking at those two
subjects.

891
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,440
So no more deep dives.
Yeah, same sort of point.

892
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,680
They're not honing in on one
subject.

893
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:54,880
They'll look at groups of
subjects.

894
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,840
And so, OK, let's look at the
foundation subjects in your

895
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,080
school.
And I'll get all the subject

896
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,320
leaders in one room.
It's less interrogative.

897
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,440
Interrogative and more
collaborative.

898
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,360
Yeah, that's a good thing again,
I think.

899
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,080
Here's my favourite 1 Genuine
Genuinely my complete favourite.

900
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,760
Even more than the ungraded
overall system, this is the to

901
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,400
me is the fact that they notify
schools on the first day of the

902
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,080
week.
Right.

903
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,920
So I know not pretty, it's not a
huge change, but it's, but to

904
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,880
me, I'm like, at least there's
if you get inspected on Friday,

905
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,320
you'll find out on the Monday.
You know, it's just the, the,

906
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,480
the idea that head teachers were
stressing at five days a week,

907
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,200
yeah, waiting for a phone call
till 12:00 every single morning,

908
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,160
yeah, was just horrendous.
Now at least it's like, okay,

909
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,680
look by Monday at midday, let's
say I don't if it is midday

910
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,480
anymore, but by Monday, the end
of the Monday, you'll know where

911
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,560
not been.
That's that week.

912
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,120
You know, four more days at
least that you can be like.

913
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,280
Because the argument is still,
if you know exactly when they're

914
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,720
coming two months in advance,
you play the game and look, and

915
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,160
you know what, I kind of get
that argument.

916
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:47,240
I don't think schools would do
that.

917
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,360
We don't have the resources to
do.

918
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,600
I don't think that happen.
But even if that is your

919
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,600
argument, at least this kind of
it, it still allows for an

920
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,840
element of surprise in that
exactly this week, but it does

921
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,680
it's it's reduced honestly by
80% the stress because you're

922
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,760
not waking up every morning.
Anyone and anyone that thinks

923
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,200
that a school can play the game
honestly, even in a in a week or

924
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,880
two weeks, You, you have not,
you haven't.

925
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,719
You don't know about education.
No, that's as simple as that.

926
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,560
You can get your ducks in a row,
but you can't pretend things are

927
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,440
happening when they're not
because they talk to the kids.

928
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:14,880
And you know what the kids
always tell you?

929
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,360
Yeah.
It's such a complex system in a

930
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:17,719
school, it's just impossible to
do that.

931
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,840
Yeah, if it could, after what?
After the model would be we come

932
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,719
in for a week and you sort your
whole school out because if you

933
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:23,560
could do it in a week they
would.

934
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:24,679
They'd come.
And do it.

935
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:28,120
I like there's one thing they do
now with safeguarding in terms

936
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,360
of the no, but this jumped out
at me as well.

937
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,719
If the only downside is
safeguarding and it's not a

938
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,679
really serious safeguarding
event, but if the only downside

939
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:38,960
is safeguarding, like maybe
you're fighting things slightly.

940
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:39,679
Wrong.
That's a classic.

941
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:40,880
One isn't it?
That's a classic one where

942
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:41,840
schools get really caught up in
it.

943
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,800
And because it used to be right,
safeguarding, that's an issue.

944
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,440
No whole school, no needs
improvement.

945
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,480
And it's like, Oh my God, I just
filed this under the wrong like

946
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,120
subcategory and it wasn't put in
exactly the right place.

947
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,199
Needs to be fixed, yes.
Worse, the whole school going

948
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:56,760
into requires improvement and
having a flag probably not.

949
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,640
So it depending on the severity.
Of course, what they do now is

950
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,920
they'll say, look, OK, we'll
have like an interim of two to

951
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,200
three weeks, sort it out, we'll
come back, we'll check it, and

952
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,680
then we'll take it off.
Rather than this whole Cliff

953
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,280
edge of if anything's remotely
wrong with safeguarding ever,

954
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,400
your whole school kind of shuts
down.

955
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,960
That level of nuance I think is
good.

956
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,040
Don't get me wrong, safeguarding
is the most important thing.

957
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,040
But when it's small things like
that, clerical issues almost,

958
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,120
yeah, give the school a week or
two just to fix it because then,

959
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,320
you know, it's not a problem
anymore.

960
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,440
You know no children are in
danger and you can move on from.

961
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,120
There quite like that one
because in the old system that,

962
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,560
you know, there was a
possibility of being like

963
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:31,920
quality of education at this
school, outstanding,

964
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,160
unbelievably good behaviour and
attitudes, outstanding at this

965
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,840
school, personal development,
really outstanding.

966
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,960
Leadership management also
outstanding.

967
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,080
We're going to give it good
actually, because safeguarding,

968
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,640
you're using a really outdated
system and it just wasn't logged

969
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,880
properly.
So the whole school requires

970
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:45,800
improvement.
Yeah, yeah.

971
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,320
It was just like, ah, yeah,
exactly.

972
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,840
So there's a bit of a bit of
leeway now for schools to fix

973
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,720
those smaller things, which I
which I really like.

974
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,440
But the big thing here then
we've kind of established what

975
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,480
Ofsted was, how it changed
immediately, where we are right

976
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,040
now this second, if you've got
an Ofsted call as of recording,

977
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,480
it will be this interim version
where it's a bit more stripped

978
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,360
back.
The reason that we have this

979
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,880
interim version though, and the
word interim is being used is

980
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,680
because the whole idea was that
we're going to move to a new

981
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:15,320
system completely.
A report card system was touted

982
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,720
as the way to explain it.
And I know you've done a lot of

983
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:20,440
reading on this and this is what
came out in the news in the last

984
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,520
week or two.
We're going to move to this in

985
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,000
September 2025.
We're thinking of doing this and

986
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,600
there was from what I saw pretty
unanimous push back that it's

987
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,760
insane.
So Hayden, I'm going to pass it

988
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,800
over to you now.
Can you explain what's going on?

989
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,000
Where are we at?
What's going on?

990
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:35,960
What's?
I'd like to get your raw

991
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,320
opinions.
Yes, please do, because I've not

992
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,960
read much about it purposely
knowing you did a lot of

993
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,560
research and to get kind of
immediate thoughts here.

994
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:44,240
OK.
Where do I start?

995
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,160
All right.
So obviously, we've scrapped the

996
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,560
gradings.
Let's have that as our context.

997
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,080
We've scrapped these overall
gradings already in the interim

998
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,480
period.
And then obviously that those

999
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,080
overall gradings are not coming
back, OK.

1000
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,440
However, there are there is
going to be a new grading

1001
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,800
system.
And let me explain what it is

1002
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,840
because it will sound like the
wrong thing before I get to the

1003
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,080
end.
There is going to be a new

1004
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,840
grading system, OK, across 10
key areas in a school.

1005
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,320
So before we had those four key
areas that I mentioned where

1006
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,640
they were kind of greater than
that called sort of like

1007
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,520
amounted to a overall grading.
Now they're saying look, no

1008
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,680
overall grading.
And we like the idea of giving

1009
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,120
parents a bit more detail about
specific things in a school.

1010
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,560
So we agree that's a good idea.
So here are 10 areas we're going

1011
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,320
to look at in a school.
So quite a lot more and we are

1012
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,400
going to grade them, but
obviously we don't want to use

1013
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,840
that old grading system.
So we've got this much better

1014
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,320
completely changed grading
system.

1015
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,160
So each of the 10 areas, and I
will go over what the 10 areas

1016
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,320
are in a minute will be graded
as one of the five following

1017
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,800
points and that colour coded as
well.

1018
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,160
Just, you know, just for all of
us teachers who love colour

1019
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,640
coding things.
So at the top grade.

1020
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,760
Is it greater depth?
I wish it were.

1021
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,520
I genuinely just wish they used
the same for the kids.

1022
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,200
Just sort.
Of just yeah, great depth

1023
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,920
expected.
So expected work towards no

1024
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:57,720
work.
Towards below.

1025
00:37:57,720 --> 00:37:59,160
Yeah, literally it could have
been it.

1026
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:00,840
It basically is.
It's just buffer words.

1027
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,240
I mean, you'll laugh when you
hear them so.

1028
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:03,320
They got rid of outstanding they
got.

1029
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:04,680
Rid of outstanding.
They got rid of outstanding, a

1030
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:05,960
stupid word.
We don't want to we don't want

1031
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,080
to grade things on that and they
now we can get exemplary.

1032
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,880
So joke, isn't it?
No, it's real.

1033
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:16,080
But don't worry, I didn't.
Cause it's purple.

1034
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,680
It's not a number anymore.
It's not like 5 or 4.

1035
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,360
It's now purple.
Because no, because no, because

1036
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,880
numbers in, you know, numbers
aren't good.

1037
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:25,960
Because people can compare
numbers.

1038
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,560
They feel bad when there are one
or five.

1039
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,960
So now it's purple.
You can't compare colours, so

1040
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,520
again, I'm gonna stress this.
This is in the 10 areas.

1041
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,280
Each of these 10 areas are
relevant so you can be exemplary

1042
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:36,800
in perfect.
Right.

1043
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,640
So that that that is the most
egregious example of changing

1044
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,680
something because for the sake
of saying you've changed.

1045
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,040
It I don't ever see it though.
So remember, just just for

1046
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,440
again, non teachers, the old
system outstanding, good, good,

1047
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,640
adequate, adequate,
satisfactory, satisfactory.

1048
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,640
And then it was like requires
improvement, right.

1049
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,840
So, OK, so we've got exemplary
at the top, followed by in in a

1050
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,360
nice green right, strong
practise, OK.

1051
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,800
Not one word.
Not one word.

1052
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,440
We don't.
Do what we us labour.

1053
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,120
We don't do one word.
System popping exception not.

1054
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,720
That one strong practise.
Then in lime green, they've

1055
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:11,560
really thought, no, they've
really thought about this.

1056
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,160
Listen, they've really thought
about this colour system, didn't

1057
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:13,960
they?
Stop taking the minute they

1058
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,440
really, they really thought
about this system.

1059
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,360
OK, Then in lime green, because
you're not quite green, you're

1060
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,360
not really green, right?
It's secure.

1061
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,480
So I don't know what you think.
I do find it interesting that

1062
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,880
they take they've split good and
outstanding has now become

1063
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,360
three.
So it's like exemplary, then

1064
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,480
strong practise, then teach.
You like this?

1065
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,080
More chances to be good.
The lovely.

1066
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,200
Exactly more more things to work
up.

1067
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,880
Yeah, more, more ladder runs and
then.

1068
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,240
In the colour sorry I used to
slightly lighter green.

1069
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,880
I wish, yeah, slightly less
green, all that yellow.

1070
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,000
So the next one's yellow.
Yellow.

1071
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,280
Is attention needed?
Not really.

1072
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:51,800
Improved.
It requires, not requires

1073
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,520
improvement, Dylan.
It's attention needed.

1074
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,160
What do you mean?
Like Labour on Tories, mate,

1075
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:56,280
They're not the Tories, all
right?

1076
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,760
They wouldn't do the same thing.
Attention needed.

1077
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,080
And then Joe, is this a parody?
No, OK, this is real.

1078
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,240
And then down at the bottom 5th
grade and the lowest one in red.

1079
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:07,680
Requires improvement used to be
causing concern.

1080
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,720
Oh my.
God, yeah.

1081
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,680
So.
I can I give you my my immediate

1082
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:19,640
feedback for that.
That makes a mockery of the the

1083
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,560
idea that outstanding good and
stuff weren't weren't good

1084
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,920
enough.
So on its own right right now, I

1085
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,600
would say, are you joking?
Now what I'm hoping is going to

1086
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,280
happen because I'm trying to be
balanced here, because that's

1087
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:31,560
just funny to me.
The idea that they've replaced

1088
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,080
outstanding to exemplary.
We've got to find that funny.

1089
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,120
That's hilarious.
Like what on earth's going on?

1090
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,160
What I'm hoping has happened
then, because we've not got the

1091
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,680
overall grade.
I'm hoping that what they're

1092
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:46,000
thinking with this at least is
we can get more detail and just

1093
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,120
be more accurate for people
outside of education looking at

1094
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,200
the card like we just talked
about the parents, I don't

1095
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,920
really see, and we'll see what
you say with more detail, how

1096
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,600
this makes the whole process
less stressful for staff.

1097
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,320
If anything, this seems more
stressful because we've now got

1098
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,440
10 areas that were judged
against and five boxes to go in

1099
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,840
with colours.
Like the idea of a school then

1100
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,560
instead of saying OK leadership,
management behaviour, OK

1101
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,080
education, the the idea we've
got 10 things to look at and now

1102
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,480
they all need to not be the
lowest thing.

1103
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,280
It feels immediately like this
is more stressful for staff and

1104
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,360
educators, but maybe better for
parents.

1105
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,200
That's my guidance thing.
Right now, yeah, I, I really

1106
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,320
think Ofsted we're going just my
opinions after reading all this

1107
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:30,960
stuff and and also listening to
other people.

1108
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,760
I've seen a lot of people talk
about it and I really wanted to

1109
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,560
form my own opinion, right.
I don't want to just jump on the

1110
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,880
bandwagon of, oh, anything,
anything off to do with crap

1111
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,640
because which is realistically
what a lot of people do, like

1112
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:39,880
anything the government do is
terrible.

1113
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,200
My, my gut reaction is I think
they were really focused on, and

1114
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,080
maybe rightfully so, the idea
that the one word overall

1115
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,600
judgement was the problem, not
this idea that obviously we look

1116
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,960
at areas of the school.
And, and then my next thought

1117
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,880
was, OK, well, if they didn't,
if they didn't have something,

1118
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,720
whether it's a colour system or
a word system, that means.

1119
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:02,400
Or a number system.
Or if they didn't have anything

1120
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,840
genuinely, how how is the
average Joe parent and teacher

1121
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,400
maybe supposed to look at be
able to look at an offset report

1122
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,360
and like very clearly
understand, yeah, the strength

1123
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,400
and weaknesses of that school.
Yeah, I don't know because

1124
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,840
because I know one of one of my
arguments from before like a

1125
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,640
long time ago was scrap
gradients completely and just

1126
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,560
literally write a paragraph.
Like, like, you know, when

1127
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,640
you're secondary school, we were
there and you just, I don't know

1128
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,360
what it was like, but my teacher
would they just write a little

1129
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,000
paragraph.
Yeah.

1130
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,840
But you know what, at the top,
they just have the grade.

1131
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,200
It's true.
They have the effort to the

1132
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:34,040
attainment.
Yeah, yeah.

1133
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,840
But they always have an overall
thing.

1134
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,400
You're right, give both, right.
But I agree, I don't actually

1135
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,880
think there should be no
gradings at all ever.

1136
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,040
Yeah, I don't think that.
Yeah, I think, I think Ofsted

1137
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,440
could improve in how they do it
and how consistent they are and

1138
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,800
how how thoughtful they are and
put into account the whole thing

1139
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,280
that we'll talk about later in
terms of, you know, schools are

1140
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,560
broken like so it's hard to meet
all of these things at once and

1141
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:56,720
it's not necessarily always the
school's.

1142
00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:57,720
Fault.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1143
00:42:57,720 --> 00:42:59,640
But yeah, you've got to judge
stuff, right?

1144
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,400
So I'm, I'm interested now.
Then you mentioned we've moved

1145
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,960
from 4 things to 10.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1146
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,280
That really interests me because
it feels like there's more

1147
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,040
opportunity for me to be able to
say why are we judging that or

1148
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:11,680
Oh yeah, definitely.
That's really important.

1149
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,600
Let me tell you the 10 areas and
if you want to stop me at any

1150
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:14,960
point, talk about it just.
Just stop it.

1151
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,560
Do all 10 go on?
I'd say what I'm going to do

1152
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,440
just one more time so I get
really clear so we can compare.

1153
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,360
The four original ones were
quality of education, behaviour

1154
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,880
and attitudes, personal
development, leadership and

1155
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:25,280
management.
So in my were the original 4.

1156
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,840
What I'm thinking is going to
happen here is we could probably

1157
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,040
place all 10 into those four.
That's kind of what I'm thinking

1158
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,320
as well, because a lot of them
were too, weren't they?

1159
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,480
Leadership and management
behaviour and attitude and

1160
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:34,160
attitudes.
Yeah, OK, right.

1161
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,120
So here are the new 10.
Just stop me as and when so very

1162
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,040
#1 curriculum.
OK, John, I'm going to do every

1163
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,080
time I'm going to say whether I
think that's a good thing to

1164
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,120
judge or not.
Curriculum, yes, I'm, I'm OK

1165
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,360
with that.
Teaching, honestly, I don't

1166
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,760
think that's bad to be graded.
However, I think it could be a

1167
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,040
massive problem.
Why?

1168
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,760
If done incorrectly, we say it
all the time.

1169
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,960
Now we look at we look at
observations now, if they're

1170
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,280
done incorrectly in a way that
makes teachers feel awful

1171
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,720
instead of supporting them, it's
not good.

1172
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:07,200
And it's quite normal now for
observations to not be graded in

1173
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,080
school when it's not Ofsted.
Yeah, OK.

1174
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,800
I like that now because it's
more about support and help.

1175
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:12,080
Yeah.
Yeah.

1176
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,760
OK.
At the end of the day, do

1177
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,800
parents or should parents know
what the quality of teaching is

1178
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,120
like in a school?
Yeah, yes, that's just quality

1179
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:23,680
of education.
Is this the way to do it?

1180
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,680
Maybe not.
And that that's I'm agreeing.

1181
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,320
I'm saying here this could be a
problem.

1182
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:27,760
Yeah.
OK.

1183
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,360
It's not like curriculum where
I'm like, OK, is the curriculum

1184
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:31,920
good enough?
Is it covering the curriculum?

1185
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,040
Is it wide?
Is it arranged?

1186
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,480
OK, Yeah, Cool, cool.
Yeah, teaching, yeah, very

1187
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,800
quickly changes as well.
You get an Ofsted inspection in

1188
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,000
2020, there could be turnover
50% within two years.

1189
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,640
What's to say teaching is just
as good that we're individuals

1190
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,480
that so it's not it's not
necessarily going to be very

1191
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,480
helpful.
I think it opens the door back

1192
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,480
to what people really hated and
and genuinely was proven just

1193
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,640
not useful, which is
observations of teachers.

1194
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:55,840
Yeah, unlike understand you're.
Right.

1195
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,160
Do you know what's going to
happen now?

1196
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,760
If this comes in?
There'll be observations.

1197
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,960
There'll be trust saying, OK,
observations will come back.

1198
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,600
You're gonna get colour every
time we do an observation.

1199
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,560
You're you're a purple teacher.
You're a green teacher or a lime

1200
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:06,240
teacher.
You're a yellow.

1201
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:07,680
That's what it was when we
started, Yeah.

1202
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:09,680
And it was toxic as hell.
OK, so I was.

1203
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,960
So toxic.
I, I, I am very worried about

1204
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:12,800
that.
Yeah, me too.

1205
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,240
I'm genuine, genuinely.
I can see why the government

1206
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:18,200
were like, obviously, obviously
in education we should we should

1207
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,400
check the teaching is alright.
But I think they're playing a

1208
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,440
dangerous game, opening up
Pandora's box there with oh.

1209
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,560
Yeah, I've gone from being out
teachers to very unsure about it

1210
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:27,080
now.
Me too.

1211
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:27,960
Me too.
Next one.

1212
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,640
Next one's safeguarding.
Absolutely.

1213
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,240
Obviously obvious one next one
achievement.

1214
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,440
Depends what it means, because
again, depending on area, post

1215
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,360
code you know what's your
catchment like?

1216
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:40,760
What's achievement to you is
achievement.

1217
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,880
Simply achieving, you know,
expected standard across the

1218
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,280
board in SATS for English
reading.

1219
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,160
Is achievement more holistic
than that?

1220
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,360
Well, if it is, then how do you
measure achievement in?

1221
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,600
History I'm going to give a
benefit of doubt and and I'm

1222
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,240
going to assume from the fact
that that my next word isn't one

1223
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:56,720
of the other ones.
I think it's about going to be

1224
00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:57,840
about progress.
I was just thinking that

1225
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,960
because, because I feel like no
one's going to not think about

1226
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,040
progress.
And if I wanted them to be

1227
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:03,640
separate, I'd have them a
separate, I'd have achievement,

1228
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,720
then I'd have like progress
data, like separate things.

1229
00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:08,600
So I, I, I'm going to give them
a benefit of doubt and hope that

1230
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,480
when they say achievement, what
they mean is they're going to go

1231
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,600
into schools, look at children's
starting points, look at

1232
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,640
children's finishing points and
measure their progress.

1233
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:15,680
And that's another thing.
Right.

1234
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,000
That's.
I think that's completely fair.

1235
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,720
I actually think that is exactly
what that's what we do with.

1236
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:20,360
That's what key stage tests are
for.

1237
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:21,960
That's what the whole thing
about school is about.

1238
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,200
That's all we think about.
Yeah.

1239
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:24,840
How can we get children from A
to B?

1240
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,240
Yeah.
And are they on track?

1241
00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:27,520
And if they're not, we need to
identify.

1242
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,040
I think it's a really, you know,
when we have people progress

1243
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:30,600
meetings, that's what doing all
the time.

1244
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:31,960
We're saying, oh, hang on a
minute, this child came in at

1245
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,080
key stage one at greater depth
and now they're, you know,

1246
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,080
looking from our tests, they're
at working towards like what

1247
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:37,680
what's happened?
Is it an external factor?

1248
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,240
Is it something we've done?
What can we do?

1249
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,680
That's a good conversation.
We're judging all the time.

1250
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,480
Why not have a general?
Judgement, but if they're going

1251
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,520
to come in and look at SAS data.
Right, this is what I mean.

1252
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,560
And just say you're above or
below the national.

1253
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,320
That's exactly it then.
Terrible, terrible, terrible,

1254
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:52,520
terrible like that.
Yeah, yeah.

1255
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:53,120
Next one.
Agreed.

1256
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,480
So we're four in curriculum,
teaching, safeguarding,

1257
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,400
achievement.
Next 1 #5 leadership.

1258
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,080
Yeah, very important.
Yeah.

1259
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:01,560
Again, I can imagine this puts a
lot of stress, though.

1260
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,680
I'm a teacher, right, who just
saw teaching and went, oh,

1261
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:04,760
that's a lot of stress for
teachers.

1262
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,760
You know, it might be
observation, blah, blah, blah,

1263
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,360
be really bad for leadership.
Top down the same kind of vibe

1264
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,560
of leadership.
Like could a leader sit here and

1265
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,680
go, oh, that's really stressful
for me, It's not really going to

1266
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:14,720
be very helpful, blah, blah,
blah.

1267
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,120
In a way, yes, but you don't
also have the teachers are lower

1268
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,800
down on the rung and things can
be put on them.

1269
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:22,880
Pressure, pressure, pressure all
the time because of us, they're

1270
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:24,640
doing this thing.
Who's going to put lots of

1271
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:25,960
pressure on leadership?
Maybe themselves.

1272
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,000
True.
The governors, maybe?

1273
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,080
Can I tell you why I strongly
disagree that it's nothing to do

1274
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,080
like teaching?
Yeah, Is because for teaching,

1275
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,520
to me, the the the red flag of
teaching is they're gonna come

1276
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,040
in and observe you for 40
minutes in a lesson and judge

1277
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:38,840
everything on that.
So leadership, what they gonna

1278
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,320
do?
Come in and and and watch you

1279
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,960
deliver a meeting for 30 minutes
and judge the whole of your

1280
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,560
leadership on that.
Yeah, that's the problem.

1281
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,640
Or talk to staff.
Yeah, but those sort of things,

1282
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,880
do you know what if they come in
and if they if teaching, if what

1283
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,240
they mean by teaching is they're
going to come in and just

1284
00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:53,560
actually look at the the
provision that's that across

1285
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:54,600
your school.
They're not actually going to

1286
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,320
come and watch your individual
lesson and grade you as a

1287
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:57,600
teacher.
But that's curriculum, isn't it?

1288
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,560
I know this is the problem.
This is why I don't think this

1289
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:00,840
right.
But if they came in and they

1290
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,120
were just looking at curriculum
and teaching kind of together

1291
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,880
and it was like, what training
is there for teaching?

1292
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,000
But I guess I'll come into
leadership.

1293
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,480
This is where I'm struggling to
defend it, but the idea for

1294
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,120
leadership for me is they're
going to come in and they're

1295
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,400
just going to look at what
training you putting in for your

1296
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,880
school, like how you managing
staff, how you managing turnover

1297
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,120
do.
You have that folder with the

1298
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,720
tick box saying you offered
well-being yoga classes to all

1299
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:24,080
your stuff he did.
It was great leadership.

1300
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:24,640
Yeah.
Thank you.

1301
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:25,800
Yeah, I reckon that will still
be a thing.

1302
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,200
Maybe I do.
I still do this thing.

1303
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,760
I think it's impossible to get
rid of tip box exercises because

1304
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,760
they're easy to show.
As a leader, have you put out an

1305
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,280
anonymous questionnaire where
you ask staff to say what they

1306
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,000
think about the school and be as
honest as possible?

1307
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,760
Or when anyone is honest, you've
asked them to do it again

1308
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,480
because it's not exactly what
you want to hear and you've

1309
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:40,400
called them in.
You made their life hell.

1310
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,680
You did great leadership.
Great leadership.

1311
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,040
Brilliant.
No next one.

1312
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,440
Anyway, OK, leisure.
Next one is called behaviour and

1313
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,200
values.
I think that's good.

1314
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:49,520
That's something you can
control.

1315
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,560
Again, doesn't mean walk into a
school of bad behaviour, say

1316
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,240
bad, awful behaviour, worse
behaviour in that school.

1317
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:57,320
Therefore this behaviour is just
bad.

1318
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:58,040
It's not.
Simple as that.

1319
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,080
Yeah, ignoring catchment.
Yeah, yeah, Behaviour is all

1320
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:01,440
about catchment.
Behaviour is all about.

1321
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:03,760
I like how they put values in
there.

1322
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,000
It sounds like OK, your
behaviour might be might be a

1323
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,560
bit on the bad side in terms of
there's a lot of behaviour

1324
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,800
problems, but your values are
amazing, you're upholding

1325
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,040
standards and the behaviour in
this school is much better than

1326
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:14,840
it would have been had you not
done.

1327
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,200
Exactly, that's the right way to
do it is what does your school

1328
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,320
have in place?
It's not about necessarily the

1329
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,120
outcome only obviously that can
be different.

1330
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,640
You can't identify it.
Yeah, but it's like if you look

1331
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,800
at two schools, one's got a
behaviour system and one

1332
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,440
literally doesn't even have one
because I don't really care

1333
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,240
about the outcome.
Obviously the one that has a

1334
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:32,440
behaviour system is probably
doing a better job at least

1335
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,320
trying to have values in their
school.

1336
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:35,600
Yeah, because do you know what
part of that is?

1337
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,160
People look at it and go, well,
that's not the school, No, it's

1338
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,120
not like behaviour a lot of the
time isn't the score.

1339
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:42,200
Some of it is though.
Yeah, some of it is.

1340
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:43,840
And you know what?
Let's just have a bit of nuance,

1341
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,280
and if that's done right, it
could be good.

1342
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,840
Yeah, I agree.
Next one attendance.

1343
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,720
Do you know what this is One I
knew because this is the big one

1344
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:55,120
that I saw online.
I, I, I please correct me if I'm

1345
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,000
wrong.
Please, please write in if you

1346
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,760
have a really solid argument
against what I'm about to say.

1347
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,480
But this seems insane.
Like I I don't understand how a

1348
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,840
school can be judged on the
attendance of children.

1349
00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:08,960
OK, I know there could be
nuance.

1350
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,480
Again, I know that some children
might not want to attend school

1351
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:14,840
because their provisions aren't
being met because the school

1352
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,080
aren't doing it in an
appropriate way.

1353
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,200
I know that attendance might be
a problem if the school Willy

1354
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,280
nilly sends children home when
they're just feeling a little

1355
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,280
bit off.
I know that there are some

1356
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:28,360
things schools can do better for
attendance, but the vast

1357
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,920
majority of the issue of
attendance is nothing to do with

1358
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,160
schools.
It's to do with, you know, socio

1359
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,800
economic factors of of families.
It's to do with their work

1360
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,400
schedules at home.
It's to do with their attitudes

1361
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,480
towards education.
It's to do with the family

1362
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:43,840
values in general.
COVID.

1363
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,360
It's to do with COVID seriously,
exactly that.

1364
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,040
It's to do with just, you know,
anxiety around going into

1365
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,400
school.
It's to do with so much stuff.

1366
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,520
We did a whole episode on the on
the absence crisis and I just

1367
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,240
think you've got poor absence in
a school when you're doing

1368
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,840
everything you can.
This needs to be still be you're

1369
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,960
able to get strong practise.
And you know what, I'm going to,

1370
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,240
I'm going to put myself on a, on
a limb here and say, I think

1371
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,800
that's what it's going to be.
I think I really just hope maybe

1372
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:13,640
it's the word.
I hope that you, I think you

1373
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,800
summarise that perfectly well.
There are things schools can do,

1374
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,720
schools can make an impact to
attendance.

1375
00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:22,080
And I think, I hope they just
mean we're just going to come in

1376
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,680
and make sure you're doing all
that you can do within your

1377
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,280
bank.
We know there are extreme

1378
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,400
external factors, but you know
what, 20% of it, it is down to

1379
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,520
the school and we just want to
make sure that you're you're

1380
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,160
putting your fair share in that
20%.

1381
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,600
The ultimate way that this could
be tested very quickly is to

1382
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,960
look at attendance figures and
see if it completely correlates

1383
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:40,920
to the grass they're going to
get.

1384
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,640
So it's if it turns out that
exemplary is 98% plus, yeah,

1385
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:49,040
strong practise is 96% plus,
secure is 94% plus attention

1386
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,560
needed, 9290 or less is causing
concern, then I'm like, cool, no

1387
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:53,520
point doing that.
Yeah, no.

1388
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,120
Broken system, Yeah, that there
should be.

1389
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:56,880
I should be able to look at off
the reports in a couple years

1390
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,200
time and see schools with 82
percent attendance that are

1391
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:01,800
still getting like exemplary
precisely.

1392
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,280
And I look at a school that has
94% attendance and it's and it's

1393
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,520
not secure whatever exactly that
that should be what?

1394
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:09,840
They're not chasing up there.
Exactly.

1395
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,880
They're saying can are you doing
all you can as a school?

1396
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,840
We're not going to judge on the
fact that you live in a

1397
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:14,760
different era.
And you know what?

1398
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,600
These parents just don't want to
don't want to take their kids to

1399
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:17,760
school.
Hope so.

1400
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,120
I hope so.
I'm being I've been trying to be

1401
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:20,920
positive because people have
been very negative about this.

1402
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,560
I'm trying to see a potential
way that it could actually work.

1403
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:26,360
Next one preparation for next
steps.

1404
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,680
Yeah, that seems vague to me.
I've not heard this.

1405
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,120
Yeah, I don't really know what
it means does.

1406
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,640
It does it mean, you know, as a
school, it's very clear you've

1407
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,760
got an idea of what you're doing
badly, not badly necessarily,

1408
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:37,960
but what, you know, your next
steps are.

1409
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,120
For example, I know in our
school I could sit down and list

1410
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:41,280
the three things we're focusing
on.

1411
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,040
Yeah, maybe this is to do with
the school improvement.

1412
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:44,480
Yeah.
You know, as a school you're

1413
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:45,520
like, actually, do you know
what?

1414
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,480
This cohort of children are
well, well behind in this pupil

1415
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,720
premium children are really not
getting a good deal with this,

1416
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:53,240
and that's what we're focusing
on.

1417
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,560
Is it about the clarity of that?
Is it that staff know that?

1418
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,000
Good thing if so.
Do you know what I did read in

1419
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,800
an article and it probably is
linked to this.

1420
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,440
I think you're right because I
can't think of anything else

1421
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,280
that's linked to.
I did read an article like a

1422
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,560
quote from Ofsted or the
government or whatever it was

1423
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:09,840
talking about the idea they want
to put more like more stress on

1424
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,480
that idea that the the plan for
the school is a really important

1425
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,000
part of the inspection.
Like it doesn't have to be

1426
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:16,840
perfect now.
Brilliant.

1427
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,320
They really, they were, they
were saying actively like it's

1428
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,520
not a, it's not a perfect
performance on a date, but if,

1429
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,840
if there's loads of areas for of
weakness, we just want to see

1430
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,520
that you've got a good plan on
how you're going to tackle.

1431
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,960
It, I think that would massively
reduce stress if we can, if we

1432
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,840
can get that into the heads of
people who run schools, if we

1433
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:32,920
can get.
Yeah, it doesn't need to be

1434
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,160
perfect.
You don't need to have heard

1435
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,760
that.
Ofsted went to a school down the

1436
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,480
road and said in their report
that they loved the way that

1437
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,280
they did their morning provision
when they walked in, they they

1438
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:43,720
offered breakfast in the morning
or something.

1439
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:45,520
And then they did some times
tables before they went off.

1440
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,520
OK.
If Offset have said that's good

1441
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,240
for them, also means that Ofsted
are probably, if this new system

1442
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:54,560
is what we think it is, have
said, but these other areas

1443
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,040
aren't as strong.
OK.

1444
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:57,560
But that's not going to be in a
headline report.

1445
00:53:58,080 --> 00:53:59,360
And schools wouldn't have seen
that.

1446
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,480
And other schools might be doing
those next steps really well.

1447
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,000
Yeah.
And instead what happens is

1448
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:05,360
schools see the top line.
That was really good.

1449
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:06,400
Oh my gosh, need to do it right
now.

1450
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:06,680
Yeah.
Yeah.

1451
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,760
No, you don't because you're
doing other stuff really well

1452
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,400
that that school wasn't.
So what you need to understand

1453
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,160
is you know what you're doing
well already and you have next

1454
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:15,440
steps.
It doesn't mean you need to jump

1455
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,040
on the bandwagon.
Change it immediately.

1456
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:18,880
Well, let's reflect on our
experience for a second.

1457
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,840
Our school, we did panic.
Of course we panic.

1458
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,600
It's the old system for a start.
We were extremely stressed when

1459
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,040
we knew after becoming extremely
stressed and we are, our school

1460
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,120
is good at identifying areas
that need improving.

1461
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:30,760
Definitely that's what our
school is good at.

1462
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,120
And we identified that our
foundation subjects in the

1463
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,480
afternoon, they were just
getting a bit outdated.

1464
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,240
I guess it's the same sort of
system for a while.

1465
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:39,560
And it wasn't the curriculum
properly anymore.

1466
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,360
There's been a few changes.
We had an update, a few things.

1467
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,160
It was like, you know what, we
need to really revitalise our

1468
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,760
afternoon curriculum.
And what happened was I'm just

1469
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,480
being deadly honest here is we
rushed it and we put we had we

1470
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,800
put in so much work because we
were obsessed with the idea that

1471
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,960
when officer come in, it needs
to already be perfect.

1472
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,000
And I like the idea that if I
could go back in time and it was

1473
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,080
this new system that there is
like it's really clear that do

1474
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,440
you know what?
No, no, no, no, they'll be happy

1475
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,400
with our really good plan, that
really good plan we've made.

1476
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,000
We don't need to rush to do
three years of workload in one

1477
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,080
year.
Let's let's just show them the

1478
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,840
plan and they'll be really
content, just as content with

1479
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,760
that as if they would be as if
we'd already done the plan like

1480
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:18,800
that was to me, that would have
taken so much stress on.

1481
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,040
Yeah, the only thing is don't
have a plan for everything and

1482
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,120
have nothing working.
But then, but then this is what

1483
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,440
I mean when I say you can't fake
ofsteds, right?

1484
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,560
Because you come into our school
cool foundation subjects were

1485
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,600
like that.
English was like down the road

1486
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,560
of like we've done all this
extra stuff, we've done this,

1487
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,400
that maths was in a really
secure place.

1488
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,440
You know, if Ofsted, they said
we're coming next month, we

1489
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,280
couldn't have got maths into a
really secure place.

1490
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:41,480
As well as.
Impossible.

1491
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,160
It would just be like, oh, we've
all got a plan for everything.

1492
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,560
Is that OK?
It's like on Dragons Den, when

1493
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,800
they come in and they say, you
know, like they'll pitch their

1494
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,880
amazing product, right?
And the Dragons will be like,

1495
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,200
oh, I don't think that works.
I mean, we should maybe change

1496
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:53,680
this or change that.
And all of a sudden the

1497
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,320
investors go, yeah, yeah,
there's scope to change that

1498
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:56,720
stuff, The scope to change
stuff.

1499
00:55:56,720 --> 00:55:59,720
We can change stuff definitely.
It's like doesn't really work at

1500
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:01,560
that point because you already
weren't going to do it.

1501
00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:04,360
If they come in and said we've
got this, here's our plan to

1502
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,040
change this because we've
identified that's bad.

1503
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:07,560
It's a much more sound
investment.

1504
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,720
Same for a score.
If an offset inspector comes in

1505
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:12,000
and then go, do you know what?
We're really proud of XYZ.

1506
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,280
We understand this isn't great.
We haven't had the resources,

1507
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,720
obviously, as you know, because
we don't have the resources to

1508
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:19,920
do everything at once.
But we know this is what we need

1509
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:21,920
to do with that and we've got a
team of people working on that

1510
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:23,400
as.
Well, and here's our really,

1511
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,400
really thought out precise plan.
Yeah, so we've not faded because

1512
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,760
you can't do that in a few days.
Here's our really, really,

1513
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,000
really, really precise plan.
All of the justifications.

1514
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:32,320
Right, let's fix the last few.
OK.

1515
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,840
So the last there's we've got 2
left, next one opportunities.

1516
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:37,720
OK.
I assume maybe that's for like

1517
00:56:37,720 --> 00:56:39,840
enrichment or maybe trips or
something, I don't know.

1518
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,120
Well, listen.
I'll tell you what, I'm going to

1519
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,040
the next one as well because we
think they're very linked.

1520
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:44,880
The next one is called inclusion
and belonging.

1521
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,680
I think that's lovely so.
Opportunities, inclusion and

1522
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,320
belonging.
Yeah, To me, opportunities, I

1523
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:50,760
don't know.
Again, I'm hearing this for the

1524
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,080
first time.
If that's to do with like, you

1525
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,520
know, opportunities for like a
wide curriculum, seeing like

1526
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,000
visitors going on trips and
stuff.

1527
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:58,560
Do you know what?
Fantastic.

1528
00:56:58,560 --> 00:56:59,680
We need more funding for it
though.

1529
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,080
Don't judge schools on the fact
we can't provide those

1530
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,520
opportunities because we might
not have the teacher who happens

1531
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,720
to be an expert in something.
We don't have a forest school

1532
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:09,480
out in the back or we don't have
things local that we can go to.

1533
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,200
Just just like a bit of nuance.
Again, inclusion and belonging

1534
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,520
really important.
I think that comes honestly with

1535
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,440
paver and values.
To me, there's under one

1536
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,320
umbrella, yeah, of the way you
act, the way you carry yourself,

1537
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,320
the way you belong in an area.
You're you're part of the school

1538
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:23,920
building.
It's inclusive.

1539
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,360
Everyone's part, everyone's
equal, the values you have.

1540
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:27,840
And that even like, you know,
Sen.

1541
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,760
Yeah, you know.
Our children with particular

1542
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,120
learning needs included and less
is probably appropriately, but

1543
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:34,720
again, it comes with funding
both of those things.

1544
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,720
To me, I'm like, if you want to
see that do being done really

1545
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,000
well, we need to stop pretending
that we are, that we can do it

1546
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,000
now because we can't.
It's impossible.

1547
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,840
We can have the right attitudes,
we can do the right things, we

1548
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,240
can say the right things, but we
can we can't literally fund

1549
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,480
these opportunities and things
if we don't have the actual.

1550
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,240
We can try.
So I would say looking at those

1551
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,800
10 things, you know, I'm trying
to, I'm trying not to jump on

1552
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:56,200
the bandwagon again.
I'm just, oh, this is

1553
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:01,040
ridiculous.
I feel like to me, it's almost

1554
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,920
as if we've gone from the old
system, had a lot of issues with

1555
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,440
educators, and it was we were
saying it's overly simplified.

1556
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,440
Yeah, it feels like this is
quite intensely more

1557
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,040
complicated, like if it feels
that way.

1558
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:15,880
Well, that, that's the been the
biggest, you'll be pleased to

1559
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:17,840
know that's been the biggest
criticism so far.

1560
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,960
There's been lots of head
teachers, union reps, all sorts

1561
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,720
of people in education, even in
government that have been saying

1562
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,840
this is unbelievably complex.
Someone said it was like looking

1563
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:28,200
for the lens of a kaleidoscope
or something.

1564
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:29,440
Like that, it was all the
colours.

1565
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,480
Yeah, yeah.
But and because there's just so

1566
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,000
much going on as well.
But isn't that?

1567
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,800
You're asking, do you know what,
I'm glad I need to just rant for

1568
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:36,320
a second.
Yeah.

1569
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,920
What do people want?
I don't get it.

1570
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,760
Like I tell you what I do get
some people just want to get rid

1571
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:43,840
of Ofsted completely.
So any change in Ofsted is just

1572
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:44,600
not going to be the.
Change.

1573
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:46,680
I reject that.
I think I do.

1574
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,440
I think I do.
It's when people say defund the

1575
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,600
police, right?
And it's like people go, are you

1576
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,040
insane?
And they're like, I don't really

1577
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,360
mean defund the police.
I mean put more money into

1578
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,840
mental health services and
direct stuff.

1579
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,280
Like we'll say that then.
Yeah, that's not what you say if

1580
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,680
you're saying get rid of of
Ofsted, but you're actually, no,

1581
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,680
no, what I really mean is just
like offstairs that dated we

1582
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,560
need to do in a different way.
We'll say that then.

1583
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,440
Yeah, because it it it can just
breathe confusion because if you

1584
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,080
just sit there and say get rid
of Ofsted, it sounds like to me

1585
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,000
you're saying don't hold us
accountable at all.

1586
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,480
And I know that's not what
people mean, but what I'm

1587
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,520
imploring people to do is be
really clear of what you mean

1588
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,440
then.
I think that this new system,

1589
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,400
right, has the potential to be
considerably better from the old

1590
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,960
system for parents.
And also I do genuinely think it

1591
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,920
has the potential to be better
for educators.

1592
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:34,920
But like we explained when we
went for those 10 things, there

1593
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,480
is also the complete swing, like
the swing the other way, like

1594
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,000
with teaching.
Yeah, that's the one.

1595
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:40,760
Isn't it?
That could be great.

1596
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:42,400
That jumps at me more than
attendance.

1597
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:43,280
Terrible.
Yeah.

1598
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,000
That really jumps out at me more
than anything.

1599
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,600
Attendance.
We all know they're like, that

1600
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:48,440
sounds ridiculous.
A great pushback.

1601
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,640
You saying this to me now?
Teaching is the one that

1602
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,560
honestly raises like, my blood
pressure a bit because I I worry

1603
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,200
about those staff in those toxic
schools who will now honestly be

1604
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:57,320
taken advantage of.
Yeah.

1605
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,400
And made to feel like crap
because someone in SLT who's not

1606
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,880
taught in 10 years have decided
they're yellow and that means

1607
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:03,640
it.
Attention needed.

1608
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,360
That means support plans and the
idea of heading back to that

1609
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:07,720
makes my skin.
Crawl.

1610
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,520
Yeah, I really wished if I was
to change that, I would.

1611
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,000
I would put curriculum and
teaching together into some new

1612
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,840
word.
And do you know what it used to

1613
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,280
be?
Quality of education.

1614
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:17,960
Yeah.
And I feel like that kind of

1615
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,000
almost was, was was like enough.
Yeah.

1616
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,920
Yeah, provision, curriculum
provision if I want to change

1617
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:23,920
it, yeah.
Could provision, quality of

1618
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,000
provision or whatever, because I
can't possibly use the same one

1619
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,640
that, you know, the Tories had.
So I'm I'm in a really, really

1620
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:31,880
weird middle ground where I feel
like there is potential for this

1621
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:33,720
to be better because I do think
there are forecast system is

1622
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,520
better.
We literally said this months

1623
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:36,400
ago.
On our podcast, I agree

1624
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,320
completely.
Reports are better because you

1625
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,520
get more detail and it's not
just one word.

1626
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,440
But remember, like you said,
when you look back at your

1627
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,160
reports and you said, well, my
teachers used to write a

1628
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:46,560
paragraph, your teachers also
used to put your attainment and

1629
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,880
effort right at the top.
Okay, Do we need to grade these

1630
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,480
things?
Honestly, probably okay because

1631
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:57,200
I parents don't want to read A5
page document and that's OK and

1632
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,480
have to work out, yeah.
If that's better or worse than

1633
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:01,880
in a different school, I think
what in a different.

1634
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:03,240
Way right.
I think what a colour system

1635
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,440
would do genuinely is it would
allow you to look at a school

1636
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:11,400
and I don't think this is a bad
thing, and say cool behaviour

1637
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,920
and curriculum and teaching are
really strong here,

1638
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,680
opportunities and inclusion and
belonging less so.

1639
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,080
So that that for this school
might be a thing they're

1640
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,160
focusing on.
But for my child, it's so

1641
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:22,880
important.
With my SEND needs, there's

1642
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,680
inclusions really high.
It's important to me as a

1643
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,640
person, as a family, that school
has this more curriculums, like,

1644
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,080
okay, there, it's secure.
But you know what?

1645
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,240
For my values, I think I'm going
to send my child here and do

1646
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:35,280
that.
I think it's clear for parents.

1647
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:36,960
The only thing I would say with
the parent thing, the best

1648
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,440
argument is it's malleable.
Things change all the time.

1649
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:40,920
I agree.
Because of an Ofsted report.

1650
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:44,400
How many schools do we know that
were inspected in 2010 as

1651
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:48,320
outstanding and still have not
been even re inspected Like even

1652
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,360
the minute 114 years later?
Yeah, you got we going to

1653
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,520
pretend that's the same.
School had a whole turnover of

1654
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,840
staff by that point.
Leadership multi times over.

1655
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:57,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I agree.

1656
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,600
But that was a good example of.
And they put that on some of the

1657
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,160
articles that I read, like this
idea that parents are gonna make

1658
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,360
a bit more of an informed
decision of, you know, what do I

1659
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:05,560
want?
And that's what we want parents

1660
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,120
to do.
What does my child need?

1661
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:08,680
Like you said, my child's for
Sen.

1662
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,000
And, you know, and we're new to
the area and our belief system

1663
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,280
is really important to us.
And you know what?

1664
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,040
In this area, our belief system
is not a typical belief.

1665
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,120
I want to go to a really
inclusive school that's going to

1666
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:17,880
understand my child.
Yeah, Yeah, completely.

1667
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:19,320
Yeah, completely that.
OK, cool.

1668
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:22,360
So Ofsted in general, their
overall aims, like they always

1669
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,360
talk about striving for
excellence, raising standards

1670
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,000
and stuff like that.
Again, I I'm not convinced and I

1671
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,320
want your quick answer to this.
Do you think that this means now

1672
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,160
they will be striving and
pushing for excellence and

1673
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,080
supporting teachers more because
of this change?

1674
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:36,600
No, no it's not.
I think they're going to report

1675
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:40,280
to parents a bit better, right?
I don't I'm not remotely

1676
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:43,360
convinced it's going to be a
better experience for educators

1677
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,280
and I don't think it's going to
be uplifting for for schools.

1678
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,560
I don't think it's going to
deliver high standards and raise

1679
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:51,320
standards or.
Whatever.

1680
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:52,960
That's what they say their.
Motto is I don't think it's

1681
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,520
going to raise standards really,
maybe passively a little bit

1682
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:58,600
because they've broken it down
into 10 things.

1683
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,200
The schools rather than having
four really big descriptors,

1684
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,040
quite vague things, whether I
don't know what I mean.

1685
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,680
At least now there's there's 10
things in our school improvement

1686
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:08,520
plan and we just always consider
these 10 things.

1687
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:12,120
Maybe that will help schools
hone in on the right things.

1688
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,360
I don't know.
So last thing then as like a

1689
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,600
little conclusion here, yeah, we
talked about Ofsted wants to in,

1690
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:19,480
it's in it's mantra, say it's
raising standards.

1691
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:20,560
I don't think that's what's
happening.

1692
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:22,120
Yeah.
The changes they've made, I

1693
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,480
think honestly, they're
honestly, if I was to just say

1694
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,080
are they better or worse?
One more judgement.

1695
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:27,840
I think it's better.
I think it's better what they're

1696
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:28,960
doing.
I think there's a lot of traps

1697
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,840
they can fall into.
Yeah, but I do think it's

1698
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,040
better.
OK, But OK, strip it back.

1699
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:35,920
Last thing we're going to talk
about in this podcast then,

1700
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:37,120
because we always like to offer
a solution.

1701
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:38,760
We don't want to sit here and
say, well, that's good and

1702
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:40,040
that's bad because of this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1703
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,720
What do you think then Ofsted
should actually be?

1704
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:44,080
What?
What to you do you think?

1705
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,880
OK, If this body is going to
exist and judge schools, which

1706
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,280
is part of Ofsted, at the
minute, it feels like the

1707
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,240
judgement is all Ofsted is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1708
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:51,840
I agree.
I agree.

1709
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:55,360
So we we think Ofsted should be
wider, keep the judgement fine,

1710
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:57,880
OK, get rid of the judgement.
It's probably a bad idea, but

1711
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:59,160
what else should it be?
What?

1712
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:00,600
What should we have?
I think.

1713
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,600
Ofsted, if it really is going to
meet its mantra on we raise

1714
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,840
standards in school, needs to be
a facilitator for that to

1715
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,960
happen.
For example, Ofsted is the one

1716
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:16,000
that facilitates 2 schools
partnering up and they make it

1717
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,840
happen.
They make these schools work

1718
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:19,960
together.
Peer support, because I really

1719
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,120
do think the best way to improve
standards is teachers talking to

1720
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:24,480
teachers.
We had some staff training the

1721
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,320
other day at our school
delivered by an English expert

1722
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,600
who is a teacher from another
school, but it just happens to

1723
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,000
also be extremely passionate
expert in English and it was the

1724
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,400
best training I've ever had in
10 years.

1725
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:36,080
It was inspiration.
It was she was unbelievably

1726
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:38,880
inspirational and knowledgeable
and knew exactly what she was

1727
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:39,880
talking.
About I wish I could remember

1728
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:41,320
her name because I would call it
out right now.

1729
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:42,720
Tara something, I don't know
what.

1730
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:44,400
Her surname wasn't annoying the
voice Pixel.

1731
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:46,560
But she, I mean, we'll, we'll
talk.

1732
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:48,920
Soon away by her knowledge, her
understanding.

1733
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,600
And it made me sit and think for
the first time, Yeah, I want to

1734
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:52,680
do, you know?
What made me think made me

1735
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,440
think, OK, can I come to your
school then and see how you do

1736
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:56,440
it?
And because that is the best way

1737
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,080
to learn.
What I don't need is officer

1738
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:01,000
coming in and telling me.
I don't think your plan for

1739
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,240
English is very good.
Yeah, and you know what's great

1740
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,680
about that?
When the inspector comes in,

1741
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,880
right to a primary school to do
an offset inspection and you

1742
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:10,600
look at their LinkedIn because,
you know, you're a bit nosy

1743
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:12,080
before and oh, what's your
experience then?

1744
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,120
Worked as a head of school in a
secondary school for 15 years,

1745
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,960
LED sixth form and done nothing
to do with primary ever.

1746
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:19,800
And was, I was head of, you
know, humanities.

1747
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,240
OK, they come in though to a
primary school they've never

1748
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,720
worked in before in a rural area
they've never been in before and

1749
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:27,920
they sit there and they have to
tell me if my maths planning is

1750
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:29,920
good or not.
I don't want to listen to you.

1751
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,000
I don't value your input
genuinely.

1752
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:33,880
I really don't.
I don't think that's helpful to

1753
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:35,160
me.
You're not going to raise my

1754
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:37,480
standards in maths.
I'm better at teaching maths to

1755
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:39,320
primary school children than you
are.

1756
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,320
And you're an offset inspector
sat in this room telling me

1757
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:43,280
what's right and wrong.
That is completely broken.

1758
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:45,400
Send an expert to me because you
know what?

1759
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,360
When an expert sits down when we
had the English training and we

1760
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,760
sat down and said here's our
plan for Term 3, we're using

1761
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,720
this book.
She said to us, I don't think

1762
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:55,640
that book's very helpful for
these three genres.

1763
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:57,360
It might work for that one.
What else could we do?

1764
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,560
I immediately no back.
My back was not turned up by

1765
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:02,160
that.
I was OK thank you.

1766
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:03,880
Brilliant.
You know what you're talking

1767
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:05,080
about.
You did it in a constructive

1768
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:06,240
way.
You talked to us like

1769
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:07,920
professionals.
You backed up with your

1770
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:09,800
knowledge.
You said why don't you try this

1771
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:12,880
and that instead.
It wasn't just criticism, it was

1772
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,440
raising standards.
It was this doesn't work because

1773
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:16,440
of that.
Try this instead.

1774
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,240
It'll be better for your kids.
As a professional, we have the

1775
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,720
utmost respect for that when it
happens and we and that's the

1776
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:23,960
difference.
Yeah, I agree.

1777
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,480
And okay, you know, I'm going to
summarise my point really.

1778
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:28,720
We've kind of hit on everything
that I would want to say.

1779
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:32,240
I think Ofsted needs to, I like
these new changes, but it only

1780
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:34,160
in the context of it.
It has to become one string of

1781
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,480
the bow.
It has to be one part of their

1782
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,400
system.
It's like, yeah, we report on

1783
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:40,840
schools because parents really
need to know how these schools

1784
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:41,840
works.
And you know what, we scrapped

1785
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:43,520
one with systems because they
were just stupid.

1786
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,600
And actually we've replaced it
with a 10 point grading system.

1787
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,120
So parents still get an idea and
they can compare schools, but

1788
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,120
they need to look at all the
individual points and they can

1789
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,040
whatever all the things we said.
But in the meantime, because we

1790
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,640
also raise standards of schools,
we do exactly that.

1791
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:00,280
We go into schools and we we
facilitate and identify because

1792
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,480
they're busy in schools.
We facilitate and identify

1793
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:04,800
experts who can come in and help
them with our school improvement

1794
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:06,760
plan and they come in and they
raise standards together.

1795
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:08,720
We do peer-to-peer support, we
link schools together.

1796
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:10,600
You're not in an Academy.
These guys are in an Academy.

1797
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:11,840
They've got a bit of peer
support here.

1798
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:13,800
You're going to go and talk to
that Academy and see what ideas

1799
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:15,000
they've got.
Because I'll tell you what, as

1800
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,280
Ofsted, I know that they are,
their maths curriculum is

1801
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,720
unbelievably impactful and, and
excellent there.

1802
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:21,160
And they've got a similar sort
of catchment to you.

1803
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:22,360
So go and have a little meeting
with them.

1804
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:24,400
We've, we've done, we've, we've
facilitated this.

1805
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,120
That's what Ofsted need to do.
And I think all the people that

1806
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:29,280
are saying scrap Ofsted and
replace with this sort of thing,

1807
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,160
they have the, they have the
same intentions of that.

1808
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:34,000
I just don't think we should
scrap the report card system as

1809
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:35,000
well.
I think we should have both.

1810
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,120
Yeah, have both.
That's my, that's what I think.

1811
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:38,640
I don't know.
I completely agree.

1812
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:41,200
It's a it's a balancing act, OK,
It's a seesaw, right.

1813
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:44,120
What I've said doing at the
minute is they're very much were

1814
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,880
too heavy previously rather to
being really clear to parents.

1815
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:49,400
That's why they had the one word
report.

1816
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,320
It was very helpful for parents.
Parents loved it.

1817
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,320
Parents knew they could send
their school child to an

1818
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,480
outstanding school, brilliant or
not send their school a child to

1819
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:58,680
a reprise improvement school.
Yeah, OK.

1820
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:01,120
What we did was we balanced the
scales a bit by saying, do you

1821
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:02,480
know what?
We can still be helpful to

1822
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,280
parents without burdening staff.
That's the other side of the

1823
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,040
seesaw.
The more helpful you are to

1824
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:09,440
parents by doing these
judgments, the more you're

1825
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:10,920
burdening staff.
Really, that's what was

1826
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:12,680
happening.
It was like a real stress

1827
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:14,840
burden, such high
accountability.

1828
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,080
It wasn't helpful.
So they they brought that

1829
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:18,560
balance back a little bit.
OK.

1830
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:21,520
That seesaw is all Ofsted is
right now.

1831
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,520
Ofsted need to be a park.
OK, We've got the seesaw over

1832
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,720
here where between parents and
all accessibility, that's one

1833
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:27,600
thing going on.
Cool.

1834
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:29,560
That's not just offset though,
because we've got the slide over

1835
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:30,520
there.
Yeah, and you can go on the

1836
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:32,800
slide afterwards and we can help
facilitate the experts to come

1837
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:34,600
in and help you do that.
Also, we've got a roundabout.

1838
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:37,040
That roundabout has four schools
on it, all trying to do the same

1839
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:39,080
thing, all trying to improve.
And we've got someone pushing

1840
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:40,960
the roundabout who's done it
themselves before, and we can

1841
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:43,319
help you do it.
OK, So we need to widen the

1842
01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:46,279
scope of what offset is.
That is not just this judgement

1843
01:08:46,279 --> 01:08:48,319
scale of trying to how can we
balance between parents?

1844
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,000
That's just one part of it.
So much more could come out of

1845
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,800
just widening the scope.
Ofsted actually help raise

1846
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:58,040
standards and if we do that,
schools will improve and that's

1847
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:00,520
all we care about.
Do you know what I thought it

1848
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:02,560
was such a good analogy.
I love the park analogy.

1849
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:03,399
I'm going to use that all the
time.

1850
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,720
What does the fence represent in
the metaphor of the park?

1851
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:09,279
How many gates has it got?
The fence represents the budget

1852
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:12,240
and the fence closing in.
We've got no room.

1853
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:13,520
We've got no room for the slide
anymore.

1854
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:14,520
We've got room for the
roundabout.

1855
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,359
It's just a it's just a park
with a seesaw in the middle with

1856
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:20,880
all the parents on one side.
That's all it is, and of course

1857
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,040
it's broken.
I'm annoyed at how perfect that

1858
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:24,760
is.
It's so perfect.

1859
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:26,960
It's so perfect.
We need more gates on that part.

1860
01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:29,359
So let more people in to push
that fence back out.

1861
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,560
We need more money is what I'm
trying to say.

1862
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:32,920
Yeah.
Do you know what that's I'm

1863
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:34,520
going to leave with that.
I'm going to finish with that

1864
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:36,399
point after everything I've said
here.

1865
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:40,279
And nothing will change without
funding.

1866
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,600
I don't know how many times we
need to say on this podcast,

1867
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:44,680
Bridget, if you're listening, we
need more money.

1868
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:46,920
She's gonna run that well.
Bummer.

1869
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,439
I.
Knew she wasn't listening, but

1870
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:50,399
there we are.
Maybe in the future she'll

1871
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:51,720
listen.
We need more funding.

1872
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:53,600
Nothing will change.
Nothing will change this.

1873
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:54,520
But the whole chat was
pointless.

1874
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,600
If we don't get any more
funding, honestly, nothing will

1875
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:58,040
change.
So give us more money and we'll

1876
01:09:58,040 --> 01:09:59,320
do these things.
And we'll build a slide and.

1877
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:00,720
We'll build a slide.
I'll tell you what.

1878
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,000
We'll build 2 bloody slides and
a roundabout.

1879
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:04,800
Guys, thank you so much for
listening.

1880
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:06,400
Hope that's helpful.
Please do if you've listened

1881
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:07,840
this far.
You are a legend.

1882
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:10,160
I would love it if you could
leave us a nice review Wherever

1883
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:11,720
you're listening to your
podcast, send us a message.

1884
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:13,760
What are your thoughts on these
new Ofsted improvements?

1885
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:15,240
Are they improvements?
Are they getting worse?

1886
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:18,280
Let us know what you think and
we will catch you next time.

1887
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:18,800
See you later.