Ep 61: Does School Prepare Children For Real Life?

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Hello, welcome back to Teach
Repeat the podcast where we keep

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our finger on the education
pulse and we deliver to you all

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the news and reviews and all the
best things that you'll ever see

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with some light, smouldering,
smouldering.

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My name is Hayden and this is
Dylan.

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Dylan, you changed it up there.
I know because you said earlier

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we should do some kind of like
let people know listening for

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the first time, like what the
podcast is all about, and I feel

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like I did a solid 410 job.
There.

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No, I thought it started well.
Yeah, and then?

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You got flustered.
I got lost.

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Yeah.
Because so I saw your face like,

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ohh yeah.
Ohh, I've been not listening to

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a lot of Rob Beckett and Josh
Williams.

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Ohh Parenting Hell podcast.
Yeah.

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And I noticed that they do that.
So I was like, well, they're

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famous and funny.
And we're.

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Trying to We're one of the two.
I'm not sure we are, actually,

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and I thought it might be a good
thing to do.

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Really good podcast, by the way.
Have you listened to it?

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I don't like Josh Widdicombe
voice.

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Really, he's very he's got a
very particular.

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Voices, I can't listen.
To very, very nicely.

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I listen to a couple and I just
think of it.

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I just think of it.
But I mean, I I know it's great

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podcast and I've listened to
snippets which are really funny,

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but then I thought, I'm going to
listen to a whole one, very

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recently actually.
And I know this and I just

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think.
Of it.

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Well, I'm not gonna be guest on
our podcast now, are they?

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Ohh yeah, not now.
Imagine otherwise.

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Geez, we're gonna be right here.
Yeah, just want to come.

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Great guy.
Just don't listen.

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Your voice for now.
Whereas you guys listening to

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this you.
Well, let's do this right now.

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I don't you.
Know I did like about the

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podcast they got.
There was a lot of talk because

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I like it.
Yeah, they get a lot of

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interaction people.
They get people sending.

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People send in like little voice
clips and stuff and they play

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them every week.
Their podcast.

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I do like it when they don't
interrupt.

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Each other like their podcast.
So anyway, maybe.

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Yeah, they really they they do
nice segments.

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They get like small businesses
on to like.

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Hayden this is a chat which have
separately not on my live on

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the.
Podcast.

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So why don't?
We live is it is live, really

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live like we don't have anything
like as well.

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We live on the airwaves.
Anyway, welcome new listeners.

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We talk all things education in
this.

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Podcast and how was your week?
Interrupts me.

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You could.
I think we should play a game

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where you guys keep tabs on how
many times he interrupts.

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And not just.
I don't know.

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I don't know.
I don't but like when I'm

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midpoint, I'm mid sentence.
He does it.

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That's fun.
I do it because I want to save

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the I was about to swear.
I want to save the viewers from

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boredom.
Hayden, by the way, just so we

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all know before this podcast
starts, like, well, you're going

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to lead this one?
Are you going to?

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Because I don't want to say.
I just know what to say.

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I don't think what to say to
them.

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You're gonna have to lead it.
And then you know what?

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I do?
I come into the podcast and I

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lead it.
Control.

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That's not.
True.

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It's not true.
Can I tell you what he really

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did?
I'm gonna show you all.

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If you're watching, you're
watching his little.

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No.
Normally it's a podcast most

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people are watching.
Normally we write our notes on a

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on a shared screen, right?
And he's that there is little

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notes screwing, a screwing notes
on this little notepad.

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And then he went and he closed
it.

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Like kids at school, they don't
want their partners to cheat.

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He closed it over like that.
Like, no.

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And I was like, I haven't
written anything down.

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I need to know what the
conversation points.

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I was like write your own ones.
It's a shared podcast, honestly.

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Go.
Because what happens is I'll

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write my points and then I'll be
like, I can't wait to make that

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point and we'll go to the
podcast and you'll be sat there

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going, yeah, I was just.
Thinking, actually.

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And you're saying my prepared
point really good.

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So I thought what we could do is
like like we haven't prepared

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properly anyone who listens.
I'm sorry if this is your first

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podcast episode.
This is slightly unhinged.

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We Yeah.
Well, I mean I don't know why

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you still listening but I we
prepare it.

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I thought we call this week if I
just have my own points and we

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just have more of a.
That is good, but I just want

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like you, I just want to know
what the overarching points were

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to talk about.
Otherwise I am just.

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You know the title of this
episode is Does School Prepare

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Children for Real Life?
Yeah, I was gonna read what you

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put there, but you did it
grammatically incorrect.

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I was gonna show you.
Up.

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That's the school.
The school.

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Just one of them.
Just one school.

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Yeah, that's right.
That's only one score, only

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working 1 score.
But as always, before we go dive

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straight into what we actually
talk this week, we are going to

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catch up and have a little chat
about what's happened this week

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in the world of education and
our own lives, indeed ourselves.

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Hayden, how's your week?
Been that's nice, bit lovely

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week as always.
Come up to Sats, get a little

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bit stressful, but still pretty
pretty.

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Unusual year six teacher, right.
So do you feel stressed at this

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point, having done it so often?
A little bit, like a little bit.

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I'm not stressed about the kids
doing.

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It's more like the it's just the
feel of like people getting a

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bit like when we got to make
sure we talk this actually ohh

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haven't done this in a while and
and also me I put the pressure

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on myself like ohh actually if I
haven't recapped everything like

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fairly recently there's a chance
they might have gotten that

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thing.
So I need to be really cautious

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to like I haven't got I haven't
got extra time that this this is

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the date that's on.
I need to make sure, Oh no, I

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didn't do Roman numerals and
ages that might come up.

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Even though it's completely
pointless, it might come up in

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the Sats.
That's.

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You find yourself falling this
trap then, even though your

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personal opinion is you don't
really care, right?

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Yeah, yeah, I'm.
I don't not care, I think.

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No, no, I'm sorry.
Let me be really clear.

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You don't care about the fact
that it might come up in this

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arbitrary paper that we've all
decided is really important.

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Like you're gonna teach your
kids stuff, obviously, but like,

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you don't actually care about
the whole SAT system in.

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That you know you don't.
Think it's as highly regarded.

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As it should.
No, I think we need to chill out

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on putting pressure on 11 year
olds to to performance test them

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literally is meaningless to
them.

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Like genuinely people sometimes
pretend.

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I pretend sometimes to make
myself feel better that this

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test has any meaning on
anything.

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And it literally doesn't.
So I'm like, no, we probably

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should just chill out a little
bit, but no, I'm not feeling too

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much pressure.
Maybe the week before I'll be a

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bit like all God have I done my
job properly.

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I sure everything I should have
done but it's.

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Alright, quite normal.
I suppose that in any old job

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when yeah, what, what, what
this, what the Sats essentially

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is for you guys in year six
especially even I know it's key

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stage two exam, I know it's
testing everything, but it's

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particularly in year six, it's
like that kind of pride does

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come into it, doesn't it?
It's like if you feel like your

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kids have underachieved for
where they should be, then

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that's not a nice feeling.
Yeah, exactly.

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Especially if you did the final
stretch with them right?

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When when realistically, like
memories aren't perfect, are

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they?
So realistically, the last year

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is going to make the biggest
impact in terms of what they

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remember in that test.
Sure, sure.

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So I don't know.
But other than that one nice

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little win we've had our school,
which I just share with our

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listeners, I know, you know,
because you work at the same

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school as me is last week we
talked about using AI or week

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before, I don't know about using
AI to write reports.

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And actually our school has come
out since then and just made it

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really clear in a staff meeting
that is completely fine to do

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that.
And I'm glad they did that

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because I think people are still
a bit like the formula to use

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AI.
Of course you are.

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A I is great for writing.
Reports.

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And if you're not, no one will
know.

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Do it anyway.
Yeah, what are they going to?

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Do.
I don't know.

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They're quite easy to say,
aren't they?

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But you could just say no, I
wrote them.

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Yeah.
And what?

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Honestly, what?
Happened.

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Yeah, Bosco was really good.
They just said look this is

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honestly spent 5 minutes doing
it.

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I just said look this is this is
an example as my eye software

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you can use.
They're really good and This is

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why it's OK and the reasons
we're basically you're still

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inputting everything personal
about the child.

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All the tool is doing is saving
you 5 minutes structuring it

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into a beautiful paragraph.
It will just do it for you,

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probably better than you can do.
And those 5 minutes multiply,

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don't they?
Yeah, when it's 5 minutes per

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kid for one subject.
OK, well, each kid has four

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subjects.
I've got to write 4 and I've got

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32.
Yeah.

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So you can extrapolate that you
do the.

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Math.
So use a I.

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It's really good for writing
reports.

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It will save you a lot of time,
and they're pretty good.

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At the end of the day.
What about you, Declan?

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Good week.
Yeah, good week.

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A couple of things.
I guess one would be again

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highlights in our school.
We're big up our school here.

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I very much enjoy our school.
And as anyone who's listening to

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the podcast knows, we had Ofsted
at the end of last year.

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If you're a new listener, go
back and look at our podcast

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episode Ohh Offset experience.
It was very enlightening.

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Obviously we're very vocal about
the fact we absolutely do think

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that Ofsted is completely
broken.

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However, it's still a thing that
exists and you know teachers do

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need to be held to account.
We went through it, yes, schools

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need to be accountable.
We went for the whole process.

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It was a really nice and
cathartic.

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I thought afterwards to talk
through it and it's worth

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listening to.
But anyway the point is that our

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head after that experience and
Ofsted does why heap on the

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pressure of any school for a
good at least a year, probably 2

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years before they actually come
Because you know when they're

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coming you need to put a lot of
effort into preparing.

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So our head said cool, every
single person in the in the

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school gets a day.
In lieu just could.

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We went through Ofsted
basically.

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So it's been known as very nice,
the Ofsted Day.

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And yeah, it's fantastic.
And his point was like, I could

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do a lot of things to try and
help but actually you just want

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some time.
And I was like absolutely true.

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Like what everyone says, the
best thing for well-being is

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just.
Times not going to.

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Work it's not, yeah, exactly
what it's doing the job.

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So I had my well-being day.
My friend need financial

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planning as his name.
He for his, I think it was a

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birthday gift.
You're given some gig tickets in

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London for a comedy event and so
I went out with him.

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Watch that and we made a day of
it.

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Rather than like rushing after
school, going to London, umm, we

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00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,510
went to Camden Market at loads
of food.

229
00:08:40,580 --> 00:08:43,130
I put on our Instagram, rate my
plate and I love how seriously

230
00:08:43,140 --> 00:08:45,270
people took it.
When I see like a sliding scale

231
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,300
thing on Instagram, I usually
just slide it all out because.

232
00:08:47,310 --> 00:08:48,430
I want.
I took it seriously because you

233
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,030
put one little quite cheesy,
Yes, I made sure to put that

234
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,310
right down.
Just Cheeses Rank.

235
00:08:52,370 --> 00:08:53,960
Exactly.
And and looking through like the

236
00:08:53,970 --> 00:08:55,270
same people obviously voting
each one.

237
00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,810
It's very interesting and very
insightful to see where ohh, you

238
00:08:57,820 --> 00:09:00,250
like the pasta dish.
Anyway, that was a really nice

239
00:09:00,260 --> 00:09:02,770
day, really enjoyed it.
And yeah, that's a direct that

240
00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:07,120
is a direct consequence of
someone SLT, a head teacher

241
00:09:07,310 --> 00:09:10,780
taking well-being seriously.
And I feel great for it.

242
00:09:10,790 --> 00:09:14,580
And I was very grateful.
And do you know what it kind of

243
00:09:14,590 --> 00:09:16,560
juxtaposes?
Like doing less work because

244
00:09:16,570 --> 00:09:18,880
genuinely in the future now.
But like, that was nice.

245
00:09:18,890 --> 00:09:21,020
I am, Of course I don't mind
doing this thing.

246
00:09:21,070 --> 00:09:23,690
It's like, you know, scratching,
you scratch my back, I scratch

247
00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:25,240
your back kind of thing.
Like it's just.

248
00:09:25,340 --> 00:09:27,100
Sort of psychological game and
that treat.

249
00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:29,960
People.
With respect, we saw months ago,

250
00:09:29,970 --> 00:09:32,390
we mentioned it because someone
put it on Facebook or something

251
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,930
and they were saying about how
when they worked at a school was

252
00:09:34,940 --> 00:09:36,610
toxic.
They were like, hell, no, I'm

253
00:09:36,620 --> 00:09:38,070
not doing anything extra, I'm
not doing it.

254
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,320
And then they worked at a school
where they were treated nicely.

255
00:09:40,330 --> 00:09:42,430
They were like, yeah, I don't
mind doing a club and it was

256
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,380
like it was the same amount of
work, but they were just treated

257
00:09:44,390 --> 00:09:45,760
nicely.
So it does make a difference.

258
00:09:45,810 --> 00:09:48,680
Yeah, because your mental state.
Exhaustion is one thing.

259
00:09:48,690 --> 00:09:50,740
I don't think anyone's a teacher
and isn't actually always

260
00:09:50,750 --> 00:09:53,370
exhausted.
Like I don't we were we were

261
00:09:53,380 --> 00:09:57,150
talking earlier about the whole
thing of I think teaching is

262
00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,400
this thing where we are walking
a tightrope where anyone doing

263
00:10:01,410 --> 00:10:04,670
the job could very easily fall
one side or the other into

264
00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:06,770
complete burnout.
Hating the role and and really

265
00:10:06,780 --> 00:10:08,880
like falling out of love of
teaching and the other side

266
00:10:08,890 --> 00:10:10,760
which is actually still really
enjoying being with the kids and

267
00:10:10,770 --> 00:10:13,250
loving your loving your job.
And I think the biggest

268
00:10:13,260 --> 00:10:15,960
determiner for that fact is the
school you work in rather than

269
00:10:15,970 --> 00:10:16,960
the person you are.
Yeah.

270
00:10:16,970 --> 00:10:19,830
I think almost anyone who's a
teacher, if they're in the wrong

271
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,970
environment and toxic school,
where they're undermined or

272
00:10:22,980 --> 00:10:26,180
forced to do work or just
treated like rubbish, treated

273
00:10:26,190 --> 00:10:28,660
not like a person, treated not
like someone with a family at

274
00:10:28,670 --> 00:10:30,520
home, treat it like someone
who's got no, you've got no

275
00:10:30,530 --> 00:10:31,780
interest.
You wanna do that evening, I

276
00:10:31,790 --> 00:10:32,820
don't know.
You gonna go and do this

277
00:10:32,830 --> 00:10:35,460
planning for me that's gonna
drive anyone to despair.

278
00:10:35,470 --> 00:10:38,650
Whereas I think the thing we
have to do a teaching is is

279
00:10:38,660 --> 00:10:40,660
really nurture that.
And you've always said this and

280
00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:42,720
it's stuck with me and I
completely agree with you.

281
00:10:42,910 --> 00:10:45,560
If we ever stepped into a role
of SLT or did anything like that

282
00:10:45,570 --> 00:10:47,740
in the future, what the number
one thing would be the

283
00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:50,480
well-being of the teacher,
Because everything else stems

284
00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:51,960
from that.
If you want to just expand that.

285
00:10:51,970 --> 00:10:53,900
I reckon it be controversial by
the way, because I'd be really

286
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:56,430
vocal about it.
They're like no, no, no staff

287
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:57,850
come.
First because he here you go

288
00:10:57,860 --> 00:10:58,900
then.
So I'm going to be the person

289
00:10:58,910 --> 00:11:01,970
you say that I I work at the
score and down the road and I

290
00:11:01,980 --> 00:11:05,470
I'm even I'm offended or
whatever and say what ridiculous

291
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,750
things of course the.
Children of staff come.

292
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,530
First, why?
I say because they do.

293
00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:11,050
I walk away and leave you
hanging.

294
00:11:11,340 --> 00:11:13,910
No, it's it's simple, isn't it?
It's more provocative than it

295
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,230
really like saying that
statement.

296
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,850
What I what I mean by that is if
you have happy staff, they will

297
00:11:17,860 --> 00:11:18,920
do a good job.
Simple as that.

298
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,030
And then, but inadvertently, by
putting your staff first, you're

299
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,200
putting the children first as
well because they will just do a

300
00:11:24,210 --> 00:11:25,450
better job.
Simple as that.

301
00:11:25,510 --> 00:11:27,110
It's just.
I don't know, maybe it's not as

302
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,270
simple as that and I'm
oversimplifying it, but to me I

303
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,630
think it's a a simple way of
thinking.

304
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,200
About you do it, mate, he said.
Yeah, you know, I might do.

305
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,240
I might.
Do more than watch it burn and.

306
00:11:37,250 --> 00:11:40,560
I'll employ you.
You can be like Admin Assistant.

307
00:11:40,570 --> 00:11:42,590
Or something.
I appreciate that roles reversed

308
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:48,010
once.
So I saw something this week in

309
00:11:48,020 --> 00:11:50,190
the news I wanted to talk about
and I'm hoping it develops into

310
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,410
a bit of a discussion.
Don't interrupt me.

311
00:11:52,420 --> 00:11:55,050
Thank you.
There was a school in London and

312
00:11:55,060 --> 00:11:58,120
I had all debate with my family
about this because a few of my

313
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,440
family members work in a school.
Some don't obviously, but

314
00:12:00,450 --> 00:12:01,420
everyone's got an opinion on
this.

315
00:12:01,430 --> 00:12:05,530
And that's why I found it really
interesting is children are

316
00:12:05,540 --> 00:12:07,790
addicted to social media.
That is a fact.

317
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,870
Children Hayden Stevens is
addicted to TikTok.

318
00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:14,320
But I think you know, to me,
it's different.

319
00:12:14,330 --> 00:12:15,580
Children, children are
protected.

320
00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:17,640
You talked a million times
already.

321
00:12:17,650 --> 00:12:19,840
Go and see our episode The
toxicity of teacher TikTok.

322
00:12:19,850 --> 00:12:21,450
I think that's a really.
Good, well done.

323
00:12:21,460 --> 00:12:23,300
For saying that, I always
consider you can't normally say

324
00:12:23,310 --> 00:12:26,480
words in general sentences.
By the way, need financial

325
00:12:26,490 --> 00:12:28,800
planning.
The guy I went with to to count

326
00:12:28,810 --> 00:12:30,240
them that time, that's his new
name.

327
00:12:30,380 --> 00:12:32,380
He showed me on the way up on
the train.

328
00:12:32,450 --> 00:12:36,280
He started to keep a note tab of
everything that we get wrong

329
00:12:36,290 --> 00:12:39,070
with language and he only
started on one episode.

330
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,450
There was already 3 on there and
I was like, well, if you could

331
00:12:41,460 --> 00:12:44,090
be bothered you'd find hundreds
if you go back because he

332
00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:45,880
realised that we constantly save
things wrong.

333
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,220
I said something like it's not
all roses and jolly and I mean

334
00:12:50,230 --> 00:12:52,310
like it's not like I was just
saying it's easy.

335
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,750
I just mashed together two
things.

336
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,030
Anyway, there was this big
discussion.

337
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,880
It was on this morning.
A head teacher in London has

338
00:12:58,890 --> 00:13:03,870
suggested a 12 hour school day.
And the sole purpose being to

339
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,870
try and break the social media
addiction of his children.

340
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,670
And this was a secondary school
which I think we see a lot more

341
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,710
of the kind of, you know, social
media problems.

342
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,490
Yeah, the phones are more right,
The phones are more rife and the

343
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:17,940
point was to break it up.
What is?

344
00:13:17,950 --> 00:13:19,600
What is your thought on that
immediately?

345
00:13:19,660 --> 00:13:23,010
I think the headline is very
like click baiting and catching.

346
00:13:23,020 --> 00:13:25,150
My first thought on that was
like, what an idiot, what's he

347
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,080
talking about?
And then I didn't reload.

348
00:13:28,090 --> 00:13:30,600
I did just skim past it like I
imagine a lot of people did and

349
00:13:30,610 --> 00:13:34,460
just looked at a little bit.
And when I saw that it was, it

350
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:37,870
was a controversial way, I
guess, of being like, yeah,

351
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,880
because kids are on phones all
the time and it's not.

352
00:13:40,890 --> 00:13:42,910
I'm not saying they should come
and do maths and English for 12

353
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:43,870
hours.
He was like, yeah, we'll just

354
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:45,710
provide tonnes of extra
curricular stuff that really

355
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,050
they should, you know, back in
the olden days, cooking do

356
00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:50,400
anyway, they cook and go out and
play some football with their

357
00:13:50,410 --> 00:13:53,450
mates or go and do whatever.
We'll just put all that on and

358
00:13:53,460 --> 00:13:56,530
just make kids do it.
So I'm not, I'm not actually for

359
00:13:56,540 --> 00:13:59,150
it, I don't think, but I thought
it was it compulsory.

360
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,250
I don't know.
I don't think it was compulsory

361
00:14:01,260 --> 00:14:03,100
so that it was compulsory, I
think that.

362
00:14:03,220 --> 00:14:05,390
Yeah, I doubt it was.
I felt anyone would not go

363
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,550
through that thought and be like
come to that conclusion.

364
00:14:07,820 --> 00:14:10,930
So in the end when I saw it was
more, it wasn't as clickbaity as

365
00:14:10,940 --> 00:14:13,860
I thought, like, ohh, this
teacher thinks everyone should

366
00:14:13,870 --> 00:14:15,590
be doing that.
Everyone should be working 12

367
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,870
hours a day to teach kids.
I realised that he's just making

368
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,270
a wider point about a massive
issue, which is what you're

369
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,690
getting on about.
And it is true, isn't it?

370
00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:24,600
Like it is a problem.
It's a huge problem.

371
00:14:24,610 --> 00:14:25,810
It is a problem in primary
school.

372
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,030
I can't even imagine what it's
like in secondary school as a

373
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,450
year six teacher, I've had so
many issues.

374
00:14:30,460 --> 00:14:37,900
It's the biggest issue issuing
issue, the biggest category of

375
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,420
issues, categories what I'm
looking.

376
00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:42,380
For I don't know what you're.
Talking about, it's the biggest

377
00:14:42,390 --> 00:14:45,260
cause, right?
The word cause, that one the

378
00:14:45,270 --> 00:14:46,780
cause of.
Issue it teaches SAT.

379
00:14:48,340 --> 00:14:51,340
Like ohh, I've had in the past.
I've taught year six for like 5

380
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:53,720
or six years.
I've had kids being caught on

381
00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:56,660
their on their phones making tik
toks in school toilets.

382
00:14:56,670 --> 00:14:59,740
Yeah I've had kids making ticks
by each other at home and like

383
00:14:59,750 --> 00:15:02,480
horrible things and making
YouTube videos about each and

384
00:15:02,490 --> 00:15:05,020
horrible things and I'm just
like Oh my God like social media

385
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,780
causes so many problems.
The worst one.

386
00:15:06,820 --> 00:15:08,490
I don't know if you get this in
your probably not.

387
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:09,160
Probably too.
Young.

388
00:15:10,170 --> 00:15:14,400
WhatsApp groups, man.
Oh my God, I just can't get over

389
00:15:14,410 --> 00:15:15,020
how.
What's that?

390
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:17,980
To me, it's just this innocent.
It's just a messaging thing and

391
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:19,850
we use it for our business.
Use it all the time, just

392
00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:22,990
personally talk to people's
kids, make WhatsApp groups and

393
00:15:23,060 --> 00:15:26,970
just brutal to each other.
They are ruthless, they send.

394
00:15:26,980 --> 00:15:29,790
Voice it's just another way of
it's another platform that

395
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,190
allows bullying and stuff like
that.

396
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,280
So I don't in that respect I
want to separate this out

397
00:15:34,290 --> 00:15:36,590
because I don't think that
WhatsApp is a problem.

398
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,640
I think children are going to
find a way to be horrible to

399
00:15:38,650 --> 00:15:42,270
other children And and it's a
bit I I get boomer, boomer kind

400
00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,930
of vibes from someone who's like
what did horrible.

401
00:15:44,940 --> 00:15:46,850
It's because it's WhatsApp like
no it's not.

402
00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:49,940
This just used to happen on the
way home from school or when you

403
00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:52,440
said when you used to go in the
park and play Kirby with your

404
00:15:52,450 --> 00:15:53,080
football.
Right.

405
00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:54,360
Yeah.
Used to be horrible to other

406
00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:55,180
kids all the time.
Right.

407
00:15:55,190 --> 00:15:56,960
So kids are gonna be able to
have kids That's a problem

408
00:15:56,970 --> 00:15:58,640
that's ongoing.
It's always going to be there.

409
00:15:58,710 --> 00:16:01,900
We have to be ways to you know
step in and help them and stuff

410
00:16:01,910 --> 00:16:03,190
like that.
It's kind of 10 we can get rid

411
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:04,200
of.
We're not gonna solve that

412
00:16:04,210 --> 00:16:04,820
issue.
Yeah.

413
00:16:04,860 --> 00:16:07,380
But I think that what's
different to me is how

414
00:16:07,390 --> 00:16:12,620
incredibly mind rotting and
horrible and disgusting the

415
00:16:12,630 --> 00:16:14,770
algorithm is.
And and, you know, all you need

416
00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:18,160
to do is is talk to anyone who
runs these companies.

417
00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:20,410
In Silicon Valley over in
California, you were in charge.

418
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,310
They don't let their own kids on
this kind of thing.

419
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:23,750
Yeah.
And there's a reason, because

420
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,180
they know that it's terrible.
Absolute brain.

421
00:16:26,190 --> 00:16:27,360
Wrong.
Absolutely terrible for them.

422
00:16:27,370 --> 00:16:30,630
And I suppose my point, my my
point is my wider point here is

423
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,670
I I don't think this is a bad
idea because it's just, it's

424
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,590
basically saying to kids what
we've always said.

425
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,870
Here are some enrichment
activities that I'm, I'm

426
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,570
offering for you that you can
come along to.

427
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,780
The only rule is when you come
along, you find you don't bring

428
00:16:41,790 --> 00:16:42,230
your phone.
Yeah.

429
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,900
And it's like you want some
cooking something.

430
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:45,770
OK, brilliant.
I think that's absolutely

431
00:16:45,780 --> 00:16:47,580
fantastic.
I think that's the only way

432
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:48,770
we're actually gonna ever solve
this.

433
00:16:48,780 --> 00:16:49,780
Problem.
Do you think it work?

434
00:16:49,940 --> 00:16:52,640
Yeah, I think.
I think it could work in that if

435
00:16:52,650 --> 00:16:55,370
in those three hours they'd be
sat in their bedroom scrolling

436
00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:57,390
on TikTok, mindless, saying mind
numbing, scrolling, scrolling,

437
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,020
scrolling, scrolling, getting
brain rocked by being fed stuff

438
00:17:00,030 --> 00:17:01,390
which is age inappropriate for
them.

439
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,860
They shouldn't be on it anyway.
It's not filtered whatsoever.

440
00:17:04,030 --> 00:17:05,359
I think that's terrible for
them.

441
00:17:05,369 --> 00:17:08,490
So if instead of doing it for
five hours every evening, if

442
00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:10,730
they're doing it for two hours,
but they also played a game of

443
00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:11,700
football and cooked a.
Cake.

444
00:17:11,710 --> 00:17:14,040
If I wouldn't, I'll be like, I
would just like.

445
00:17:14,050 --> 00:17:15,960
Yeah, that's fine.
You're not part of that.

446
00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:18,190
You're you're not this problem.
You shouldn't be forced.

447
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,640
You're you're still an issue.
I'm not.

448
00:17:19,650 --> 00:17:22,450
It's not gonna solve the thing
completely, but if if some kids

449
00:17:22,460 --> 00:17:24,470
do it, obviously a good.
Thing Yeah, I guess some kids.

450
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,250
I just don't think kids do it.
Maybe I'm sceptical.

451
00:17:26,260 --> 00:17:28,349
I my.
Parents might forced into it and

452
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,370
I also just think sometimes you
just have to like I wanna, I

453
00:17:31,380 --> 00:17:34,010
wanna ask you again just very
clearly about the whole should

454
00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:35,550
should phones be banned in
school?

455
00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:38,430
Because I am very much of the
opinion that they absolutely

456
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,770
should.
There is no need to have a

457
00:17:40,780 --> 00:17:44,030
smartphone in a school.
It's not a Nokia where you just

458
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,790
phone your mum because you're
walking home, right?

459
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,410
But I think in the hours where
you're going to school, and I

460
00:17:48,420 --> 00:17:51,160
don't care if people disagree
with this or not, like I've what

461
00:17:51,170 --> 00:17:52,500
about.
No, I thought about this enough

462
00:17:52,510 --> 00:17:54,540
because people go, oh, it's
quite that.

463
00:17:54,550 --> 00:17:56,820
There's that boomer.
Ish, you know, of course kids

464
00:17:56,830 --> 00:17:58,120
will have phones in school.
Yeah.

465
00:17:58,130 --> 00:18:00,160
Why?
You know, it's just a rule.

466
00:18:00,210 --> 00:18:02,200
No, you don't.
And if you bring them in,

467
00:18:02,210 --> 00:18:04,410
they're going a little plastic
wallet or a case or something.

468
00:18:04,420 --> 00:18:06,360
They're locked away all day
because you know what?

469
00:18:06,370 --> 00:18:08,120
At break time you can talk to
your mates.

470
00:18:08,450 --> 00:18:10,220
You know, you don't need to
scroll TikTok.

471
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:13,500
We don't need to be pandering to
1415 year olds because they want

472
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:15,120
to scroll and TikTok in their
break time.

473
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:18,320
No, you're in school to learn
like other things.

474
00:18:18,330 --> 00:18:19,310
Enforcement.
Exactly.

475
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:20,600
We know.
You know, we have rules about

476
00:18:20,610 --> 00:18:22,930
uniform.
We don't you go ohh OK no

477
00:18:22,940 --> 00:18:25,190
problem whether you agree with
them or not different story but

478
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,550
we you it's OK to have rules
sometimes and I think sometimes

479
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,810
people want to go the other way
and it's like ohh but no we

480
00:18:30,820 --> 00:18:34,360
should we should have house anti
liberal it's it's just.

481
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:35,780
They want to go now.
I mean, I'd say we're.

482
00:18:35,790 --> 00:18:36,870
Yeah.
And you were quite liberal

483
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,470
generally, aren't we?
I think quite liberal thinkers.

484
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,420
But I do agree, I don't think
school phones should be banned

485
00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:43,090
from the premises, but I do
think they should be banned in

486
00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:45,450
school hours.
So quite simply, like my, I

487
00:18:45,460 --> 00:18:48,590
think of my year six is right.
And a lot of their argument was

488
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,400
what a lot of parents argument
was, yeah, I'm not going to let

489
00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:51,720
them walk home though, unless I
got a phone.

490
00:18:51,870 --> 00:18:53,540
I want them to be independent.
So, OK, fair enough.

491
00:18:53,550 --> 00:18:55,880
So they bring it in school, they
put it in a little pot, It

492
00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:58,220
stayed in the locked cupboard
all day and they get it at the

493
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:59,420
end of the day.
I don't even give it to them.

494
00:18:59,430 --> 00:19:00,810
This, this is the issue.
This is the like.

495
00:19:00,820 --> 00:19:03,410
I've learned this, by the way,
because in the past I'd give,

496
00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:05,220
I'd give it to them in the
classroom as they were leaving.

497
00:19:05,230 --> 00:19:06,500
Right, Say gone in, Here's your
phone.

498
00:19:06,510 --> 00:19:07,850
Put in the bag.
We're leaving now.

499
00:19:08,030 --> 00:19:10,380
I'll dismiss you.
And even in that time, there

500
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:12,280
have been kids that got in
trouble for getting their phone

501
00:19:12,290 --> 00:19:14,200
out in the 20 seconds it takes
it and filming something.

502
00:19:14,210 --> 00:19:16,500
And I'm like, Oh my God.
So now I give the phones as

503
00:19:16,510 --> 00:19:18,680
they're like, there's my mum or
my dad or I'm walking.

504
00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:20,400
So there's your phone, then off
you go.

505
00:19:20,810 --> 00:19:23,050
And even now, I'm really harsh
actually when they, even if

506
00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:24,920
they're just standing around
waiting for someone from another

507
00:19:24,930 --> 00:19:26,240
class, come out of their sibling
or something.

508
00:19:26,250 --> 00:19:27,580
No, no, I'm like, no, no, put
your phone away.

509
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:29,530
Yeah, they're like, you know,
I'm gone now.

510
00:19:29,540 --> 00:19:31,860
It's like, OK, still standing
like right here in school.

511
00:19:31,910 --> 00:19:33,900
You're still representing the
school standing right there

512
00:19:33,910 --> 00:19:36,290
other kids coming out you
anyway, you can put, you can get

513
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:37,560
your phone out as soon as you
leave that gate.

514
00:19:37,570 --> 00:19:39,380
I don't care.
You do what you want, but you

515
00:19:39,390 --> 00:19:41,760
find a way.
So yeah, I think, I think

516
00:19:41,770 --> 00:19:44,920
banning phones in school, they
have no place or they do have a

517
00:19:44,930 --> 00:19:46,530
place that's a lie.
But I think there's other ways

518
00:19:46,540 --> 00:19:47,560
you can do it, like a lot of
people.

519
00:19:47,570 --> 00:19:49,170
Say if you want them.
Not even that.

520
00:19:49,180 --> 00:19:50,540
But a lot of people say, oh, we
can use smoke.

521
00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:52,430
Is is modern.
You can get them, get them

522
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,360
engaged with their phones,
putting like little games on it

523
00:19:54,370 --> 00:19:55,950
that come up.
You know, like you will log in

524
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,630
on your phone and you tap the
answers and stuff.

525
00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,150
It's like, OK, have school. 1.
Yeah, do an.

526
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,810
IPad have school. iPad have
school, something And I know OK

527
00:20:01,820 --> 00:20:03,400
budget.
You can keep going lower into

528
00:20:03,410 --> 00:20:05,760
the argument and as every.
OK, budget.

529
00:20:05,770 --> 00:20:07,170
Does everyone have a smartphone
then?

530
00:20:07,610 --> 00:20:09,130
Does every kid in your class
have a smartphone?

531
00:20:09,140 --> 00:20:11,840
No, because I can't afford it.
So that's a ridiculous argument

532
00:20:11,850 --> 00:20:14,350
to be like like, ohh, yeah,
we're gonna rely on your

533
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:16,890
personal smart tech to do a
lesson in class.

534
00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:18,490
That would be ridiculous.
True.

535
00:20:18,860 --> 00:20:19,710
True.
Yeah.

536
00:20:19,780 --> 00:20:21,430
Winds me up.
Anyway, I saw it and I thought

537
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,470
the guy thought he got a lot of
Flack for something, which I

538
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,620
think is quite nice.
Got a lot of Flack for a for a

539
00:20:25,630 --> 00:20:28,370
headline, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not his actual idea, yeah.

540
00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:31,000
Yeah.
So again and and you know I

541
00:20:31,010 --> 00:20:33,010
don't think any teachers would
be expected to do 12 hour day.

542
00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:35,860
It would just be do you want to.
And if the answer is no, then

543
00:20:35,870 --> 00:20:37,740
cool down and didn't want to
come, then cool down.

544
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:39,620
But here's this really I thought
was really cool idea.

545
00:20:39,630 --> 00:20:42,140
We can't sit here and be like
enrichment so important for

546
00:20:42,150 --> 00:20:43,590
kids.
Why are we giving them more

547
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,510
enrichment opportunities?
And then this guy does that and

548
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,160
it's like, oh, that's awful that
you should be.

549
00:20:47,210 --> 00:20:49,540
You should allow the kids to sit
on TikTok for four hours.

550
00:20:49,550 --> 00:20:51,990
No last point, by the way.
I don't want to move on, but you

551
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,020
can't make it work because I've
worked in a primary school.

552
00:20:54,090 --> 00:20:56,450
There's not right to this
extremity, but it it was a

553
00:20:56,460 --> 00:20:58,770
longer day, right?
You can just have shifts like

554
00:20:58,780 --> 00:20:59,750
normal jobs.
Yeah.

555
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,070
It doesn't mean you don't have
to have teachers now working

556
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,960
like 17 hour days to allow this
to happen.

557
00:21:03,970 --> 00:21:05,550
It's like you just have a
teacher that does the normal

558
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:06,650
job.
How do they work in that school?

559
00:21:06,660 --> 00:21:08,120
Though because so I.
Went along the day.

560
00:21:08,130 --> 00:21:10,850
Yeah, I was in a in a free
school that had just had very

561
00:21:10,860 --> 00:21:12,540
different timetable.
The kids came in earlier and

562
00:21:12,550 --> 00:21:14,450
they generally went home like an
hour later as well.

563
00:21:14,460 --> 00:21:17,470
But the the classroom teachers
like me, we finished at a

564
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,950
certain time and then we had
these other specialists set of

565
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,250
teachers that came in and did
these other lessons that like a

566
00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:25,400
PE teacher or drama teacher or
music teacher came in and did

567
00:21:25,410 --> 00:21:27,800
the 2nd chunk.
So it was like, so it was just

568
00:21:27,810 --> 00:21:29,690
shift it wasn't.
So what you were marking and

569
00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:30,630
stuff like it was after?
School.

570
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,500
It was just after school for me
on those times.

571
00:21:32,510 --> 00:21:34,460
It's like by PPA or whatever it
was.

572
00:21:35,230 --> 00:21:36,900
So it can work.
Of course you have shifts in,

573
00:21:36,910 --> 00:21:39,250
you can have companies coming in
and running clubs and stuff.

574
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,490
I don't know.
I think money in it really quite

575
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:43,330
cool idea actually saying I
think about it.

576
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,470
Yeah, same.
I think you got a bit of a harsh

577
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,890
deal there, pal.
It's basically just turning a

578
00:21:46,900 --> 00:21:48,350
school into a community centre,
isn't it?

579
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,760
Essentially because there's no
community centre anymore.

580
00:21:50,770 --> 00:21:53,350
Yeah.
We can't in one breath complain

581
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:55,850
about how there's no, no, no
opportunities and then when

582
00:21:55,860 --> 00:21:57,530
something else comes up,
everyone doing it.

583
00:21:57,540 --> 00:22:00,380
Yeah, I don't know.
I I thought was a nice idea.

584
00:22:01,050 --> 00:22:03,910
And I'm also really, I would
love someone to convince me

585
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,340
otherwise.
And I'm not even joking now.

586
00:22:05,410 --> 00:22:08,100
I I would love someone to
convince me that for some reason

587
00:22:08,110 --> 00:22:10,060
smartphones would be OK.
It's a trap guys, cause he's

588
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:11,280
extremely stubborn.
Arrogance.

589
00:22:11,290 --> 00:22:11,820
Yeah.
Try.

590
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:15,170
Don't try, don't try.
Not worth it.

591
00:22:15,220 --> 00:22:17,900
Listen, I wanted them to do it
so I could destroy their

592
00:22:17,910 --> 00:22:21,010
argument.
No, I just think there's there's

593
00:22:21,020 --> 00:22:23,890
there's some point where I was
speaking to someone about it and

594
00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:25,990
their reply was like, ohh.
But some kids just, you know,

595
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,310
whether it's a rule or not, they
just they just so stubborn.

596
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,010
They just won't do it anyway.
And I was like, yeah, OK, I'll

597
00:22:31,020 --> 00:22:31,810
sing to myself.
Cool.

598
00:22:31,820 --> 00:22:34,850
I was probably that kid didn't
understand the rule, but tough

599
00:22:34,860 --> 00:22:36,470
because some people know better
than you.

600
00:22:36,580 --> 00:22:38,510
It's not good to have TikTok at
school.

601
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,030
Yeah.
And that's the that's the end.

602
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,470
Of the conversation of.
End of conversation.

603
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,640
Start of actual discussion of
podcasts where the question is

604
00:22:45,650 --> 00:22:47,220
in the title.
I'm actually gonna talk about it

605
00:22:47,230 --> 00:22:48,520
after this Jingle.
Wow.

606
00:22:51,030 --> 00:22:53,050
Hayden does school prepare
children.

607
00:22:53,060 --> 00:22:55,040
School.
Just school.

608
00:22:56,770 --> 00:22:59,340
Doesn't this school, that's the
only school?

609
00:22:59,350 --> 00:23:00,870
Yeah.
Does school prepare children for

610
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:01,240
real?
Life.

611
00:23:01,250 --> 00:23:03,270
Not really.
OK, see you next time.

612
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:06,840
Wow, that's it.
Done.

613
00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:08,900
Does school prepare children?
For real life?

614
00:23:08,910 --> 00:23:10,670
I don't think so.
It's not really generally.

615
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,320
I'm being serious.
I'm not even joking.

616
00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:14,160
Not really.
What all school?

617
00:23:14,170 --> 00:23:17,320
Just primary school secondary.
School Does the school system,

618
00:23:17,330 --> 00:23:19,790
Does the education system
prepares children for real?

619
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,500
Life.
I think most people would say

620
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:22,700
no.
And maybe that's why I'm saying

621
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:23,880
no.
Maybe I'm being sucked into it.

622
00:23:23,890 --> 00:23:25,420
You look like you've got a
different opinion on your on

623
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:27,700
your face.
Really.

624
00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:29,420
I don't think so.
I don't think so.

625
00:23:29,490 --> 00:23:33,800
OK, So what?
What is preparing someone for

626
00:23:33,810 --> 00:23:35,090
real life?
What does that involve?

627
00:23:35,740 --> 00:23:39,650
I guess just taking the average
life of someone in the UK and

628
00:23:39,660 --> 00:23:42,710
thinking what stuff do they need
to do in order to operate a

629
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,470
normal life?
I don't think school really

630
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,120
touches on much of it.
OK, so OK, think about this

631
00:23:47,130 --> 00:23:50,430
then.
What currently children in

632
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,090
school?
It's a very outdated system,

633
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:54,730
isn't it?
Let's be realistic, It's not

634
00:23:54,740 --> 00:23:55,940
really changed since the
Victorian.

635
00:23:55,950 --> 00:23:57,800
Times, yeah.
So what that means is outdated

636
00:23:57,810 --> 00:23:59,130
or not, I don't know, but
certainly.

637
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,420
Probably probably means outdated
because it's over 100 years old,

638
00:24:02,430 --> 00:24:08,600
but necessarily no.
I agree, so I'm saying.

639
00:24:08,610 --> 00:24:10,700
Traditional.
It's an old school way of doing

640
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:12,060
stuff.
Literally old school.

641
00:24:13,420 --> 00:24:16,510
What about it does prepare
children for real life?

642
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,790
What about it doesn't?
What What do we do Right.

643
00:24:18,860 --> 00:24:21,870
OK.
We've got a national curriculum.

644
00:24:21,940 --> 00:24:24,510
Yes, and we never used.
To no, we didn't.

645
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,360
And it would be interesting to
see to argue whether it was

646
00:24:27,370 --> 00:24:31,270
better before then.
I don't, but I do think, I mean

647
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,890
obviously there are areas of the
curriculum that are useful, Like

648
00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:35,670
most of the curriculum,
especially in primary school is

649
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,990
just skill based.
And sometimes when the kids say

650
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,910
to me things like why are we
learning this, which is a common

651
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,610
question, you.
Get by the end So what what do

652
00:24:44,620 --> 00:24:46,650
we teach in primary school where
someone says why would that in

653
00:24:46,660 --> 00:24:49,320
this you'd be absolutely
confident saying because in real

654
00:24:49,330 --> 00:24:50,270
life.
So what does that?

655
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,800
Read reading.
Obviously reading is because it

656
00:24:52,810 --> 00:24:55,180
because everyone uses it.
So that to me, I'm like, yeah,

657
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:57,450
we do that, right?
Because everyone needs to read

658
00:24:57,460 --> 00:24:59,150
like you.
You just need to read, don't

659
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,500
you?
It's very, very, very hard to

660
00:25:00,510 --> 00:25:02,480
navigate life and have what I'm
what.

661
00:25:02,490 --> 00:25:04,700
I'm going to keep referring to
an average life, by the way,

662
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:06,780
talk about someone's life.
I am just thinking of like the

663
00:25:06,830 --> 00:25:08,930
just the bog standard, average
life in the UK.

664
00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:11,970
I'm not going to extremities.
To have a bog standard average

665
00:25:11,980 --> 00:25:13,620
life you do need to be able to
read, he needs to be able to do

666
00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:15,760
a basic set of maths at least
right?

667
00:25:15,770 --> 00:25:18,220
And for a lot of jobs you need
to have an extended knowledge of

668
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:19,070
maths.
Yeah.

669
00:25:19,310 --> 00:25:21,200
So the quick thing does that
really well.

670
00:25:21,490 --> 00:25:24,580
And so I'm going to jump on that
really quickly because this is

671
00:25:24,590 --> 00:25:26,140
obviously main ones.
You can talk about other things

672
00:25:26,150 --> 00:25:28,080
in it.
But going back to that, when

673
00:25:28,090 --> 00:25:30,570
you're saying we do that well
and it's preparing them well for

674
00:25:30,580 --> 00:25:32,820
life, you kind of talked about
two different things as well,

675
00:25:32,830 --> 00:25:36,920
which was like the life of the
someone and the job market.

676
00:25:37,070 --> 00:25:40,140
So like is, is it relevant that
we're getting kids ready for the

677
00:25:40,150 --> 00:25:42,440
job market or are we really
getting kids ready to?

678
00:25:42,550 --> 00:25:45,480
So do you think that's important
then because or or is it more

679
00:25:45,490 --> 00:25:47,720
important to simply get them
ready to be able to function in

680
00:25:47,730 --> 00:25:49,000
society?
No, you see them.

681
00:25:49,010 --> 00:25:51,830
At the same thing.
Because if I'm gonna keep

682
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,380
talking this average person, the
average person in the UK needs a

683
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:56,350
job for like 40 years.
Yeah, sure, right, Jet Jet.

684
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,200
There's not many people really
that can't work.

685
00:25:58,270 --> 00:25:59,640
So do you think the role of the
school?

686
00:25:59,850 --> 00:26:01,100
Yeah, because that's part of
life.

687
00:26:01,150 --> 00:26:05,360
So if we're just thinking about
what is life, what is life like

688
00:26:05,370 --> 00:26:08,200
for for the vast majority of
people, life involves having a

689
00:26:08,210 --> 00:26:10,100
job.
So I think it would be dumb to

690
00:26:10,110 --> 00:26:13,360
think that to say that schools
shouldn't be preparing is to get

691
00:26:13,370 --> 00:26:15,600
jobs because they are going to
need it.

692
00:26:15,610 --> 00:26:16,940
Realistic.
And you might have some rich

693
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:18,140
kids that like, well, I don't
need to.

694
00:26:18,150 --> 00:26:19,930
OK, well, not talk about you
talk.

695
00:26:19,940 --> 00:26:22,260
I'm talking about the average
person who's probably gonna need

696
00:26:22,270 --> 00:26:25,800
a job to get income to, to have
a home and, you know, to have a

697
00:26:25,810 --> 00:26:28,960
normal life, right?
So reading, writing I suppose.

698
00:26:28,970 --> 00:26:31,800
So those skills are good for
that, for the job market, right?

699
00:26:32,010 --> 00:26:35,440
But then there's the other
Everyone move on to this right

700
00:26:35,450 --> 00:26:37,480
now, but there's the whole other
part of life.

701
00:26:37,540 --> 00:26:39,200
But do you, is there anything
else which is good?

702
00:26:39,210 --> 00:26:41,710
Then before we go on to this,
because I suppose the point

703
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,890
you're making out, you say no.
OK, does the buck stop there?

704
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,860
We taught our primary all the
other subjects.

705
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:51,320
I think school is is good at
exposing kids to a wide range of

706
00:26:51,330 --> 00:26:53,170
other stuff.
So at least give them like some

707
00:26:53,180 --> 00:26:56,080
opportunities to develop.
Like we're not just making we're

708
00:26:56,090 --> 00:26:59,520
not just making a tonne of
accountants and editors, don't

709
00:26:59,530 --> 00:27:00,780
you know.
I mean like only maths and

710
00:27:00,790 --> 00:27:03,110
English.
So we are we are also making

711
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,580
historians.
An artist.

712
00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:06,380
Artist, yeah.
And people that want to go and

713
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:09,780
travel the world and study
geology or something like we are

714
00:27:09,790 --> 00:27:12,240
making those people as well and
that only getting that

715
00:27:12,250 --> 00:27:14,190
enrichment through a free
education that they.

716
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,580
Get What do you think about your
interests?

717
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:17,300
And I don't think about my
interest now.

718
00:27:17,370 --> 00:27:20,070
A lot of them do stem from when
I was a child and being

719
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,640
interested in something.
Like, I think I was really

720
00:27:21,650 --> 00:27:24,140
interested in space.
Like, I loved the idea of space.

721
00:27:24,190 --> 00:27:26,580
I was interested in history from
Youngs, and I ended up doing a

722
00:27:26,590 --> 00:27:29,400
history degree, you know.
So like, there's, I can see

723
00:27:29,410 --> 00:27:31,900
direct links from what I was
doing in school to what I ended

724
00:27:31,910 --> 00:27:33,290
up being interested in adult
life.

725
00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:36,660
And like, you know, is it
preparing me for life to teach

726
00:27:36,670 --> 00:27:39,340
me interesting history subjects?
You could probably say no,

727
00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:41,560
right?
Someone preparing you for life.

728
00:27:41,570 --> 00:27:45,400
But it's worth doing because
because it invoked this

729
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,280
interest.
I guess the point I'm making

730
00:27:48,290 --> 00:27:51,080
here is you're talking about the
job market, you know, getting

731
00:27:51,090 --> 00:27:53,180
ready to contribute to the
economy and society and the

732
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:55,460
average life.
But isn't isn't there an

733
00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:58,560
argument to be had that there's
also a really important way of

734
00:27:58,630 --> 00:28:03,260
preparing for life is simply
just like enjoying, enriching

735
00:28:03,270 --> 00:28:05,290
enrichment and enjoying it?
I think there's a slight

736
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:08,410
miscommunication here.
I'm gonna clarify, which is I

737
00:28:08,420 --> 00:28:11,210
actually don't think there's a
problem with the curriculum we

738
00:28:11,220 --> 00:28:13,210
teach.
I think all the stuff there is

739
00:28:13,220 --> 00:28:14,810
great.
I just think there's stuff

740
00:28:14,820 --> 00:28:16,990
missing.
I'm not trying to argue to say

741
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,050
that we're wasting our time
teaching the stuff we teach.

742
00:28:20,060 --> 00:28:23,130
I just think we're missing out
on a whole bunch of stuff so

743
00:28:23,140 --> 00:28:26,210
average person does in life.
So therefore I'm saying because

744
00:28:26,220 --> 00:28:28,990
of that schools don't prepare
kids for life because it teaches

745
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,810
half of it.
So in that case, is there a way

746
00:28:30,820 --> 00:28:33,010
that we could prepare for life?
Could you talk about other

747
00:28:33,020 --> 00:28:34,550
things maybe that you think are
missing?

748
00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:37,050
Yeah, that we, you know, you
definitely need in your life,

749
00:28:37,060 --> 00:28:39,600
which school necessary doesn't.
But then also maybe talk about

750
00:28:39,610 --> 00:28:42,020
how could be introduced that
about missing something else.

751
00:28:42,030 --> 00:28:45,000
And is there a way to actually
prepare someone for life, or is

752
00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:47,360
it a futile thing that we're
trying to aim for when actually

753
00:28:47,370 --> 00:28:48,700
it's going to be impossible?
Well, I don't.

754
00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:50,600
Let's go back and forth and find
out of our conversation.

755
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:51,840
I don't know.
I'm gonna.

756
00:28:51,850 --> 00:28:54,300
I'm very much thinking as we go
and hopefully you are as well.

757
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:56,180
OK, so what's missing?
What's missing?

758
00:28:56,260 --> 00:28:58,270
What what?
What should we What should the

759
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,430
education system?
When you finish, what should you

760
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,060
have learned or done then that
is going to get people ready?

761
00:29:05,130 --> 00:29:08,880
Right.
The average person has to pay

762
00:29:08,890 --> 00:29:12,730
tax.
The average person has to pay

763
00:29:12,740 --> 00:29:18,080
bills in their home, and I don't
think at any point in education

764
00:29:18,090 --> 00:29:22,210
do we even attempt to properly
train people before they leave

765
00:29:22,220 --> 00:29:25,720
and go and be adults.
How to navigate those things in

766
00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:27,990
the world.
I think it's just kind of a

767
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,470
chance and hopefully someone in
your family will show you or

768
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,690
hopefully you'll go on a YouTube
video and you need to do it and

769
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:36,450
work out.
But I, you know, we spend so

770
00:29:36,460 --> 00:29:39,590
much of our life, early life in
school, I just refuse to believe

771
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,640
that there's not a place to
learn those things.

772
00:29:41,650 --> 00:29:44,370
That the average person in this
country is absolutely needing to

773
00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:47,230
be able to just function
normally as a human being.

774
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,830
The average person doesn't
actually pay tax though in terms

775
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,530
of person, they it comes off
there and they're amount before

776
00:29:52,540 --> 00:29:54,630
they get there.
So are you talking about

777
00:29:55,380 --> 00:29:58,690
understanding it or doing it?
Understanding it, obviously some

778
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:00,500
people do pay their own tax, but
we talk about the person.

779
00:30:00,510 --> 00:30:02,640
You're right, the average person
probably doesn't have a job and

780
00:30:02,650 --> 00:30:05,250
the tax is all done for and they
just get a pay slip and that

781
00:30:05,260 --> 00:30:07,790
says it.
But when you have a whole bunch

782
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,080
of people that are misinformed
on how these systems work and

783
00:30:10,090 --> 00:30:13,440
then we say here you go here's a
vote as well on how we're going

784
00:30:13,450 --> 00:30:15,580
to run the country.
It's just so easy to manipulate

785
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:18,380
people and and and to to vote
some sort of way based on

786
00:30:18,390 --> 00:30:19,760
misinformation or
misunderstanding.

787
00:30:19,770 --> 00:30:21,620
Right.
So I think we need to educate

788
00:30:21,630 --> 00:30:24,780
people properly on of this is
actually how it works like the

789
00:30:24,790 --> 00:30:26,480
amount of people.
I'm sure you've experienced this

790
00:30:26,490 --> 00:30:28,900
right when I was in my early 20s
and I worked at Tesco and I

791
00:30:28,910 --> 00:30:34,790
remember so vividly my my boss
at Tesco my boss like way higher

792
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,380
up in the ladder.
The me at Tesco's telling me a

793
00:30:37,390 --> 00:30:40,870
story about how his mate and how
he recommends this people was

794
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,470
not going to take this job pay
rise because it was going to

795
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,280
push him into the 40% bracket
and then he didn't and he worked

796
00:30:46,290 --> 00:30:48,130
out there.
He paid 40% on all his income.

797
00:30:48,140 --> 00:30:51,090
He would earn less than when he
was only paying 20%.

798
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,320
And he had this fundamental
misunderstanding as someone you

799
00:30:54,330 --> 00:30:56,890
know trying to educate me and I
didn't really know much about it

800
00:30:56,900 --> 00:30:59,910
at the time.
Being a 20 year old on how tax

801
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,150
works and he was completely
wrong and he nearly put, he

802
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,490
nearly like set me up with that
mindset of like Oh yeah, it's

803
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:08,850
not worth going for a certain
amount of money because yeah

804
00:31:08,860 --> 00:31:12,170
because then you're just.
For context here, like just let

805
00:31:12,180 --> 00:31:13,930
out to people.
I suppose what you're saying

806
00:31:13,940 --> 00:31:16,370
here is, let's say at 50 and you
start paying 40%.

807
00:31:16,380 --> 00:31:18,330
Yeah.
So a lot of people think that

808
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,030
it's 20% below that.
Yeah.

809
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,850
So 20% of 49 grand.
Yeah.

810
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:24,810
Is a is just under 10 grand.
Yeah.

811
00:31:24,820 --> 00:31:28,190
Right. 40% of 50 grand is 20
grand.

812
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:28,770
Yeah.
So.

813
00:31:28,780 --> 00:31:31,570
So he thinks he lose 10 grand by
going up to 50 grand.

814
00:31:31,580 --> 00:31:34,550
But again, for anyone out there
who might be listening to this

815
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:36,700
and actually still doesn't
understand the tax system,

816
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:39,660
because a lot of people I know
don't understand it, who are

817
00:31:39,670 --> 00:31:41,560
incredibly intelligent.
And I just don't think about.

818
00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:43,710
It they don't get it, they don't
quite understand it.

819
00:31:43,780 --> 00:31:46,230
That is not how it works.
You get paid, you get you get

820
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,640
taxed 40% on anything you earn
over 50K.

821
00:31:49,650 --> 00:31:57,030
So if you go from 49 K to 51 K,
only 1000 lbs is taxed at 40.

822
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,800
Percent.
So I didn't understand that and

823
00:31:58,810 --> 00:32:01,120
he didn't either.
And they're the kind of things I

824
00:32:01,130 --> 00:32:04,470
look back and I'm like, that's
mental, that's mental that we

825
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,750
all rely on this like system of
our structure for our entire

826
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,670
country and everyone, everyone
living in it, right.

827
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:11,850
And people don't even know how
it works and they come out of

828
00:32:11,860 --> 00:32:14,950
school And then I would use
often use arguments, but they

829
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,840
know and I'll insert a tonne of
things from the curriculum that

830
00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:20,870
are in my opinion, way less
useful I suppose to understand.

831
00:32:20,940 --> 00:32:23,550
But do they?
So most people who come who

832
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,590
don't understand like the tax
system, what you said, right,

833
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,030
they don't.
They don't actually.

834
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,190
Then also remember everything
about Anberlin.

835
00:32:29,420 --> 00:32:32,630
It's not It's not like suddenly
because they did history.

836
00:32:32,780 --> 00:32:35,440
Their brains just full of all of
these dates about when you know

837
00:32:35,450 --> 00:32:38,060
the War of the Roses was and
Amber Lynn died On this date.

838
00:32:38,110 --> 00:32:39,580
No, they've forgotten that as
well.

839
00:32:39,630 --> 00:32:42,680
So it's not like we we can't
magically we can't magically

840
00:32:42,690 --> 00:32:44,030
assume.
No, not at all.

841
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,380
There'll be some people who may
be get it.

842
00:32:45,390 --> 00:32:47,930
But I don't think we can
magically assume like, oh, why

843
00:32:47,940 --> 00:32:50,100
didn't you teach me this?
It's like well, could you work

844
00:32:50,110 --> 00:32:52,940
out the percentage of a number
in the 1st place?

845
00:32:53,010 --> 00:32:54,800
No.
Well then of course not going to

846
00:32:54,810 --> 00:32:56,770
teach you the intricacies of the
tax thing, which is all about

847
00:32:56,780 --> 00:32:59,080
percentage of an awkward amount.
And it's different scales.

848
00:32:59,090 --> 00:33:01,400
So that argument is.
But is that an argument to never

849
00:33:01,410 --> 00:33:02,960
teach anyone?
Then not at all, but it's an

850
00:33:02,970 --> 00:33:04,700
argument.
Say that like there there are

851
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:06,150
certain things you need to learn
first.

852
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,640
Like you need you need your
basic understanding of maths

853
00:33:08,650 --> 00:33:10,570
first.
I again, I think it's probably

854
00:33:10,580 --> 00:33:12,030
some parts of the mass
curriculum that are less

855
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,770
important.
But yeah, at what point do you

856
00:33:13,780 --> 00:33:15,120
start?
Like at what point do you only

857
00:33:15,130 --> 00:33:16,850
do stuff which applies to your
real life?

858
00:33:16,860 --> 00:33:19,900
Like in terms of, you know,
problem solving and working out

859
00:33:19,910 --> 00:33:21,550
the missing angle of a triangle,
Right?

860
00:33:21,620 --> 00:33:24,350
If you can't understand how to
work out the missing angle of a

861
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,220
triangle, can you really
understand the intricacies of

862
00:33:27,230 --> 00:33:29,640
the tax system?
Maybe, probably no, probably not

863
00:33:29,650 --> 00:33:31,860
though, because because the
intricacies of intricacies maybe

864
00:33:31,870 --> 00:33:33,540
not.
Is way more complicated.

865
00:33:33,550 --> 00:33:36,720
Understanding what I've just
explained in the tax system to

866
00:33:36,730 --> 00:33:38,850
have a proper understanding of
that is way harder to have

867
00:33:38,860 --> 00:33:41,520
proper understanding of 180
takeaway 2 angles you can see.

868
00:33:41,530 --> 00:33:43,300
But I reckon you can have a
superficial understanding of

869
00:33:43,310 --> 00:33:44,920
that.
I think it was that enough to at

870
00:33:44,930 --> 00:33:46,540
least get it right.
I reckon you could understand.

871
00:33:46,550 --> 00:33:49,400
I reckon most people, even if
they're terrible at maths, could

872
00:33:49,410 --> 00:33:51,800
understand that if you just said
Oh no, no, no, no, no.

873
00:33:52,030 --> 00:33:54,980
You only get taxed the bigger
chunk on Money you earn over

874
00:33:54,990 --> 00:33:57,830
that amount can have a fairly.
Easy concept and I think that's

875
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,110
something where actually it
wouldn't even come into maths

876
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,950
for me, that would come into
general studies, you know, I

877
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,050
think there's a there's a scope
for generic life skills to

878
00:34:08,060 --> 00:34:09,270
absolutely.
Have school.

879
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,690
You won't be.
You won't be worse off.

880
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:11,989
Yeah, that's what you need to
understand.

881
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,370
You're not gonna be worse off
going from 49 to 51 grand.

882
00:34:14,380 --> 00:34:16,350
And I think that's really
important and I'm not against

883
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,370
that.
I think my point here is like, I

884
00:34:18,380 --> 00:34:20,909
think some people will be sat in
math thinking why am I learning

885
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,650
this is separate though I want
to make that point.

886
00:34:23,659 --> 00:34:25,989
To me it is a very separate
thing, like of course it's

887
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,280
maths, you need to understand
it.

888
00:34:27,380 --> 00:34:30,830
And I guess my point is to
understand that you need to have

889
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,070
a higher level of maths, maybe
that you need to get to 1st.

890
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,750
But it is also separate, like
how to how taxes work, how bills

891
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,710
work, like how to find a good
deal.

892
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,750
I didn't know how a mortgage
works until I got a mortgage.

893
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,389
Yeah, yeah, you know, but is it
relevant?

894
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,570
But is it relevant for a 15 year
old to know that?

895
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:47,010
Can you not just learn it when
you do it?

896
00:34:47,020 --> 00:34:49,130
Like at what point is it like, I
don't know, we'll just do it

897
00:34:49,139 --> 00:34:50,820
when you're.
I didn't get a mortgage until I

898
00:34:50,830 --> 00:34:54,190
was 25, like would it really
have helped me to have done that

899
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:55,929
on 15?
But I could probably think of

900
00:34:55,940 --> 00:34:57,210
other things that are more
useful.

901
00:34:57,930 --> 00:35:00,340
I don't know.
I think I just, I think, yeah, I

902
00:35:00,350 --> 00:35:02,000
just think it could genuinely, I
think it.

903
00:35:02,010 --> 00:35:05,410
I think it's worth teaching.
I think it's worth some some of

904
00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:07,430
the time in the curriculum
because it's not that it's not

905
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,580
that big of.
A thing we do, we do talk about

906
00:35:09,590 --> 00:35:12,380
how the curriculum is bloated
already, what we're getting rid.

907
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:13,970
Of I was just arguing myself in
my head.

908
00:35:13,980 --> 00:35:16,550
Then you were talking, I was
listening to you and thinking we

909
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,800
did.
We did a whole episode recently

910
00:35:18,810 --> 00:35:21,300
on like, the blurred lines
between what parents should do

911
00:35:21,310 --> 00:35:22,660
and what and what teachers
should do, right?

912
00:35:22,670 --> 00:35:24,820
And in primary school, that kind
of argument is we're talking

913
00:35:24,830 --> 00:35:26,590
about little kids.
And it's like, should teachers

914
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,360
be showing them to brush their
teeth stuff, you know?

915
00:35:29,370 --> 00:35:32,240
I mean, and now I'm having this
argument ahead of, like, OK,

916
00:35:32,250 --> 00:35:34,140
well, when that gets older,
What's the analogy now?

917
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:35,250
Is it?
Yeah, of course.

918
00:35:35,260 --> 00:35:36,780
We don't teach kids how to do
tax.

919
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:38,360
Parents do that.
We're going to teach them the

920
00:35:38,370 --> 00:35:39,370
correct.
We're gonna teach them the

921
00:35:39,380 --> 00:35:42,000
curriculum.
Parents, I'm sure to spend 5

922
00:35:42,010 --> 00:35:43,900
minutes teaching them how tax
works, right?

923
00:35:43,910 --> 00:35:45,720
But the problem is, again, they
weren't taught at school, so

924
00:35:45,730 --> 00:35:46,260
they don't.
Know.

925
00:35:46,270 --> 00:35:47,900
Yeah.
I'm arguing myself here.

926
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:50,230
I don't.
Know, but we have a bloated

927
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,280
curriculum and you started off
by saying you don't think the

928
00:35:52,290 --> 00:35:54,290
curriculum is bad.
So my point to you would be,

929
00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:57,290
because what frustrates me when
people say this all the time, I

930
00:35:57,300 --> 00:35:59,670
was like, oh bloody, which is
what they do in a teacher.

931
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,970
Should we teach the real skills?
Like you know how to do this to

932
00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:05,870
their tax works and I have to
pay the water bill and I'm just

933
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,550
like, OK, when and how and what
do we drop instead?

934
00:36:08,620 --> 00:36:11,440
Yeah, I don't know but my but
it's funny because after all

935
00:36:11,450 --> 00:36:13,170
this even going back and forth
in my head my answer still

936
00:36:13,180 --> 00:36:16,010
hasn't changed though to that
question of does school prepare

937
00:36:16,020 --> 00:36:18,210
children for real life will
still know because they because

938
00:36:18,220 --> 00:36:20,710
that what I've said is not true.
Should not untrue.

939
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:22,210
Sorry, what I've said.
Is not true.

940
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:24,050
Should school prepare charged
for real life?

941
00:36:24,990 --> 00:36:26,800
That's the question, isn't it?
Yeah, that's the question.

942
00:36:26,810 --> 00:36:29,620
It's like the first one.
I don't think they do.

943
00:36:30,130 --> 00:36:31,530
And I guess the answer could be
you.

944
00:36:31,540 --> 00:36:33,740
Because that stuff gets taught
by family and culture and

945
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:35,300
society impact things.
Yeah.

946
00:36:35,310 --> 00:36:37,510
Should they do it?
Because essentially what we're

947
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,860
saying here, yeah, what we say
when we say should school pay

948
00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:43,560
for real life, let's break it
down and get meta here.

949
00:36:43,570 --> 00:36:45,290
We're saying should the
government prepare your child.

950
00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:47,100
Yeah.
Because all government funded

951
00:36:47,110 --> 00:36:50,350
and the government are in charge
of the curriculum is the, you

952
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,920
know, how is it down to the
government to make sure that you

953
00:36:53,930 --> 00:36:57,680
understand tax or like as the
people who tax people, I'd say a

954
00:36:57,690 --> 00:36:59,380
very strong argument, yes, they
should.

955
00:36:59,390 --> 00:37:00,680
Yeah.
If they're going to tax you and

956
00:37:00,690 --> 00:37:02,900
have this system in place, they
should go out of their way to

957
00:37:02,910 --> 00:37:05,420
make sure you understand it and
not just trust people to tell

958
00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:06,860
you like.
Otherwise a lot of arguments

959
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:09,070
I've seen online when of this
cause this kind of thing gets

960
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,770
talked about a lot, doesn't it?
People always come out of school

961
00:37:10,780 --> 00:37:12,640
be like yeah, school system top
mean nothing.

962
00:37:12,650 --> 00:37:15,130
Yeah.
And and a big one I always see

963
00:37:15,140 --> 00:37:18,200
is just general financial
literacy and how they're like,

964
00:37:18,210 --> 00:37:21,070
There's just not, there's none
of it really, in that you learn

965
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,910
statistics, but you don't learn
like general financial literacy.

966
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,540
That could that could help you
in lots of different ways.

967
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:28,730
And again, like history, you
might not ever use it.

968
00:37:28,740 --> 00:37:31,560
You might not even need to know
how investing works and how

969
00:37:31,570 --> 00:37:33,460
compound interest works on money
and how.

970
00:37:33,470 --> 00:37:35,120
Many compound interest is in the
curriculum.

971
00:37:35,130 --> 00:37:36,830
I learned that maths in
secondary.

972
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:37,360
School.
OK.

973
00:37:37,370 --> 00:37:39,280
Fair enough.
Yeah, yeah, OK.

974
00:37:41,730 --> 00:37:43,690
What I'm interested what is that
just in like?

975
00:37:43,700 --> 00:37:45,330
Statistics.
Yeah, it's just in maths.

976
00:37:45,340 --> 00:37:47,410
It was just like the the
question would be something like

977
00:37:47,460 --> 00:37:50,070
if I had five grand in the same
account and it was 4% annual

978
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,690
interest, how much would I have
after three years?

979
00:37:51,820 --> 00:37:53,550
That was that was a question.
That's interesting.

980
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,080
But I didn't ever make the link
between me having a savings

981
00:37:56,090 --> 00:37:57,180
account and.
Yeah.

982
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,760
It was, it was work out the
maths and this is the point I'm

983
00:38:01,770 --> 00:38:03,470
making.
Again, like OK in maths.

984
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,930
At what point do we say this is
stops being maths and it starts

985
00:38:05,940 --> 00:38:08,870
being a completely separate
subject, which is how to apply

986
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,280
this maths?
Or because you're in a reading.

987
00:38:11,390 --> 00:38:12,320
That's right.
Yeah.

988
00:38:12,330 --> 00:38:15,450
We wouldn't do a lesson on
interpreting the news and

989
00:38:15,460 --> 00:38:18,780
understanding the bias of the
news when we're like, teaching

990
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:21,840
someone to read, right?
So I'm teaching someone to do

991
00:38:21,850 --> 00:38:23,920
maths.
Is it also inappropriate to be

992
00:38:23,930 --> 00:38:26,910
like, and here's the maths in
the context of a mortgage scheme

993
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,280
that you might buy into and
reasons why it's good or bad?

994
00:38:29,350 --> 00:38:31,320
I'm not saying we shouldn't
teach those other things.

995
00:38:31,330 --> 00:38:33,580
I'm not saying we shouldn't
teach the bias of the news or

996
00:38:33,590 --> 00:38:35,720
how to shop around for a good
mortgage.

997
00:38:36,050 --> 00:38:38,180
But is it just a separate thing?
That's my point.

998
00:38:38,190 --> 00:38:39,620
Like, is it just a different
thing?

999
00:38:39,630 --> 00:38:42,180
Like it doesn't mean one's bad
because we don't do both.

1000
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:44,120
Yeah, no, I think my answer to
that is just like, yeah, just

1001
00:38:44,130 --> 00:38:45,480
later on the school's school's
long.

1002
00:38:45,490 --> 00:38:47,960
Like you learn those things way,
way earlier on I learned the

1003
00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:51,230
learn the basic maths on how to
work out a mortgage in like 6.

1004
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:54,100
Genuinely So I think yeah by the
year 10s should year 10s have an

1005
00:38:54,110 --> 00:38:56,400
opportunity to learn a bit of
financial literacy and put that

1006
00:38:56,410 --> 00:38:58,860
into practise and very much
labelled as you guys gonna be

1007
00:38:58,870 --> 00:39:00,340
adults soon.
This is really useful

1008
00:39:00,350 --> 00:39:01,950
information for when you're
adults not just a problem

1009
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,060
anymore, solving a little math
problem like you don't think

1010
00:39:04,070 --> 00:39:06,300
about or care about.
This is real and this is how

1011
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:09,000
some finances work.
If you go on this life route you

1012
00:39:09,010 --> 00:39:11,780
might get faced with this
situation and this is how

1013
00:39:11,790 --> 00:39:14,200
compound interest works in this
situation.

1014
00:39:14,290 --> 00:39:15,800
If you get a mortgage this might
happen.

1015
00:39:15,810 --> 00:39:17,700
If you decide not to.
What are the pros and cons of

1016
00:39:17,710 --> 00:39:19,710
renting and mortgaging?
Yeah and buying a house.

1017
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:22,910
The amount of people online I
see that just so illiterate when

1018
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,330
it comes to understanding the
difference between renting and

1019
00:39:25,340 --> 00:39:27,750
buying a house as well.
And you know you get arguments

1020
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,650
both ways of being like you
should only ever buy a house or

1021
00:39:29,660 --> 00:39:31,420
yeah, I've never buy house,
always be a renter.

1022
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:32,560
Here's why.
And I'm always just like what

1023
00:39:32,570 --> 00:39:34,040
you talking about like to the
arguments.

1024
00:39:34,050 --> 00:39:36,170
They always miss stuff.
They don't understand the

1025
00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:38,170
fundamentals and like these are
adults like trying to educate

1026
00:39:38,180 --> 00:39:39,610
other people.
They just.

1027
00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:41,330
I just.
The role of the school to step

1028
00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:44,370
in.
Yeah, I think so.

1029
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,330
And I was very like this in the
other episode we did.

1030
00:39:46,340 --> 00:39:48,370
Wasn't it where I was like,
yeah, I I just think the schools

1031
00:39:48,380 --> 00:39:50,150
are maybe a wider thing than it
is.

1032
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:52,410
Because I also said in that
episode that I think primary

1033
00:39:52,420 --> 00:39:55,810
schools should have the
capability to step in and do a

1034
00:39:55,820 --> 00:39:58,130
lot of things that we deem as
this is what parents do outside

1035
00:39:58,140 --> 00:40:00,350
of school.
I think secondary schools have a

1036
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,800
way bigger like role in that,
especially that end a bit of

1037
00:40:04,810 --> 00:40:06,990
being like you are actually
going to be adults soon and this

1038
00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:11,630
we don't, we don't like.
Your trickle out, your education

1039
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,210
is very much like you do.
You just go look.

1040
00:40:13,220 --> 00:40:15,750
Stopped by you just you just
walk out of this building one

1041
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,730
day after coming here every day
and then you never come.

1042
00:40:17,740 --> 00:40:20,360
Back and and do a job where 90%
of what you've learned is

1043
00:40:20,370 --> 00:40:23,310
genuinely pointless.
Yeah, like like truly in the

1044
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:24,590
average person.
Right.

1045
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:27,390
Really.
Like can you tell me the seven

1046
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,170
parts of a cell biology lesson?
And I guess that's the wider

1047
00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:33,530
point now.
Like they're not gonna remember

1048
00:40:33,540 --> 00:40:35,390
that.
OK, well might remember the

1049
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,310
mortgage thing but get get tell
you what.

1050
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,170
It's more likely someone's going
to get a mortgage than ever have

1051
00:40:39,180 --> 00:40:41,240
to tell me about the.
Yeah, so some people remember

1052
00:40:41,250 --> 00:40:43,420
that in the same way that some
people would just remember

1053
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:45,150
things about osmosis, I
remember.

1054
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,140
That word, Yeah.
Yeah, you know I just, I don't

1055
00:40:47,150 --> 00:40:48,160
know.
I just wish I'd learned more

1056
00:40:48,170 --> 00:40:51,660
stuff as as a as someone growing
up that I felt like I was fairly

1057
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:53,320
intelligent.
Like I liked education.

1058
00:40:53,330 --> 00:40:56,350
I loved learning to get to a
point where I where I didn't

1059
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,010
understand like a basically a
year six level understanding of

1060
00:41:00,020 --> 00:41:04,190
like a system which was tax
really with the mass behind it.

1061
00:41:04,310 --> 00:41:07,200
At 20 years old, I was like,
well, how the hell have I got to

1062
00:41:07,210 --> 00:41:09,250
this stage and not not know
this, But I know all these

1063
00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:12,770
things about like how to, how to
work quadratic equations and

1064
00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:13,880
that's the way people make they
go.

1065
00:41:13,890 --> 00:41:15,230
Why don't you learn all this and
when, kids?

1066
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:17,160
Think you've got a point.
I think they've got no, I'm

1067
00:41:17,170 --> 00:41:19,400
saying I think no.
I think they've got a point when

1068
00:41:19,410 --> 00:41:19,980
they say.
That.

1069
00:41:20,690 --> 00:41:23,280
There are certain things where
even as a teacher I'm like,

1070
00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:26,420
yeah, you're right, I don't need
to learn the four over AC thing.

1071
00:41:26,430 --> 00:41:28,240
Four AC.
Do you remember the square root

1072
00:41:28,250 --> 00:41:31,080
of BC minus?
I can't remember four A -, C / B

1073
00:41:31,090 --> 00:41:33,450
^2 or something like.
What's that for?

1074
00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:35,740
It's defined the intersection of
a line on the X axis.

1075
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:37,100
Yeah, yeah.
What?

1076
00:41:37,110 --> 00:41:39,760
Like like can you teach me
something useful?

1077
00:41:39,770 --> 00:41:41,480
So I agree with you completely,
I think.

1078
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,730
I think I guess my point here is
again going on to the next

1079
00:41:45,740 --> 00:41:47,110
thing.
I suppose I want to know your

1080
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,630
opinion.
Like is it realistic to suppose

1081
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:51,590
we could change it?
Then?

1082
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:55,130
Like is that a like scores been
the same for so long?

1083
00:41:55,140 --> 00:41:56,770
Like what?
How?

1084
00:41:56,780 --> 00:41:58,010
How would you even go about
doing it?

1085
00:41:58,020 --> 00:42:00,170
Or do you just think it's this
thing where we just have to

1086
00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:03,190
become a society more aware that
school has these gaps and we

1087
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,790
have to fill them in certain
ways?

1088
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,060
Or is it something where we
should actually be like no, no,

1089
00:42:07,070 --> 00:42:10,470
actually school needs to change.
I don't know if I'm being naive

1090
00:42:10,540 --> 00:42:15,010
when I say I feel like it
wouldn't be that hard for for

1091
00:42:15,060 --> 00:42:18,730
someone in the government or
whoever does it to create a unit

1092
00:42:19,110 --> 00:42:22,140
of the maths curriculum that's
called financial literacy and

1093
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:25,220
does this thing like and and I
often ask myself why?

1094
00:42:25,230 --> 00:42:27,150
Why has it never been done
people been complaining about

1095
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:27,720
this for?
Years.

1096
00:42:27,730 --> 00:42:29,380
Yeah, a lot of conspiracy stuff
about it.

1097
00:42:29,390 --> 00:42:30,650
Like, yeah, lots of people
saying.

1098
00:42:30,660 --> 00:42:32,440
Low down.
Keep the poor, poor keep the

1099
00:42:32,450 --> 00:42:33,590
rich.
Rich, I don't know if I buy

1100
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:34,550
that.
No, I don't.

1101
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,500
I don't know.
I think maybe maybe there's a

1102
00:42:36,510 --> 00:42:39,380
small subconscious bias like
that, because I do think there

1103
00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:41,260
is a divide there.
I can't say there's not a

1104
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:42,580
device.
If you become a politician, it's

1105
00:42:42,590 --> 00:42:44,140
probably because your parents
knew how to.

1106
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:45,990
Get Yeah, like there is clearly
a difference.

1107
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,820
Between and, let's keep it with
what we know, like who we know,

1108
00:42:48,830 --> 00:42:49,980
rather than what we.
Know.

1109
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:52,600
So I do think that's there
whether they all sit around a

1110
00:42:52,610 --> 00:42:54,000
table and.
Go away, yeah.

1111
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,580
Make sure we never teach the
children how a mortgage.

1112
00:42:56,590 --> 00:42:58,670
Works.
I don't think that ever happens,

1113
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,980
but I think subconsciously the
people that got there, got there

1114
00:43:00,990 --> 00:43:03,390
for a reason, and probably
equally all just have to share

1115
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,250
the same value of, yeah, we need
peasants though, keep the

1116
00:43:06,260 --> 00:43:08,210
peasants peasants.
We're rich, you know, That's

1117
00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:10,100
what they think about them.
That's what they think about us,

1118
00:43:10,110 --> 00:43:10,470
isn't?
It.

1119
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:11,150
I don't know.
Yeah.

1120
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,700
I mean, I guess I'm just trying
to be more positive than that,

1121
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:16,270
but I'm sure some people have
done myself.

1122
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:17,710
Maybe not going off, going off
on one.

1123
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,520
Do I think we could change it?
I think we could change it.

1124
00:43:21,530 --> 00:43:22,840
I just.
I'm just not sure we will.

1125
00:43:22,910 --> 00:43:24,760
Umm, but school's very
traditional, isn't it?

1126
00:43:24,770 --> 00:43:27,600
It's it's like you said.
It's not changed in a.

1127
00:43:27,610 --> 00:43:30,770
Long outdated might.
Might be a bit outdated, could

1128
00:43:30,780 --> 00:43:34,050
argue it's not, yeah, it just
is.

1129
00:43:34,180 --> 00:43:37,100
So OK thinking about school then
I I going back to what you're

1130
00:43:37,110 --> 00:43:38,950
saying about let's think about
preparing children for going

1131
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,170
into the white place which the
average person is right.

1132
00:43:41,180 --> 00:43:43,360
So you going into the workplace
you know when you go through

1133
00:43:43,370 --> 00:43:46,030
primary school we spend a lot of
the end of primary school

1134
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,270
thinking well they're about to
transition into secondary school

1135
00:43:48,310 --> 00:43:50,930
and then we we put a lot of time
and effort into saying how

1136
00:43:50,940 --> 00:43:52,870
important that is and how much
we need to prepare the children

1137
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,770
for it.
So I you know I remember

1138
00:43:54,780 --> 00:43:56,880
finishing secondary school and I
did have careers advice and

1139
00:43:56,890 --> 00:43:58,270
stuff like that.
I do think there is stuff in

1140
00:43:58,280 --> 00:43:59,450
place.
So I don't, I don't anyone in

1141
00:43:59,460 --> 00:44:02,150
secondary school to think I'm
suggesting we just got off a

1142
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,140
Cliff edge and he had no idea.
I don't think that's what

1143
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:06,710
happened at all.
However, you know, there are

1144
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,740
certain things I look at and
this really stuck with me

1145
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:12,630
because it was an argument for
home schooling and with home

1146
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,080
home schooling.
Where schooling?

1147
00:44:14,090 --> 00:44:15,100
Yeah.
Why?

1148
00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:17,260
Are you hearing that as well?
Sorry.

1149
00:44:17,370 --> 00:44:19,700
Schooling.
Right.

1150
00:44:19,790 --> 00:44:21,680
Home schooling.
Homeschooling.

1151
00:44:21,690 --> 00:44:24,820
Homeschool School Now say
Homeschool homeschooling.

1152
00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:28,630
Jesus knew I can't deal with
this.

1153
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,900
Why?
My brain too let's move home

1154
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:36,400
schooling and they and they made
the point because someone said

1155
00:44:36,450 --> 00:44:38,940
well you're not with your peers
you miss out that kind of you

1156
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:41,030
know you're not you're not face
to others in year four for

1157
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,710
example and instead you're with
like a mixture of ages you're

1158
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:47,940
with a 14 year old older brother
and next door neighbour also

1159
00:44:47,950 --> 00:44:50,700
home school and they're they're
8:00 and 9:00 and you happen to

1160
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:53,940
be 6 whatever.
And you because of the way home

1161
00:44:54,010 --> 00:44:58,110
home educating at home works you
know you kind of doing the same

1162
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:59,400
thing because you can't be
everywhere.

1163
00:44:59,410 --> 00:45:01,410
You might go to the zoo and
learn about zebras.

1164
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,700
Everyone's lying about zebras
because you just there and they

1165
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:06,780
made a really good point.
That's really stuck with me.

1166
00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:09,080
And the point was, yeah, OK,
fair enough.

1167
00:45:09,130 --> 00:45:12,560
When would you ever be with 32
people your own age ever again

1168
00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:14,510
in a, in a, in a city?
And I was like.

1169
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,450
Yeah, it's true.
Oh my God, yeah, when I went to

1170
00:45:16,460 --> 00:45:17,900
work at Asda after I left
school.

1171
00:45:17,970 --> 00:45:21,720
Umm.
The after 200 people who worked

1172
00:45:21,730 --> 00:45:25,300
in that shop, three of them were
my age and I was directly

1173
00:45:25,310 --> 00:45:27,780
working with people who I was
directly working with my

1174
00:45:27,790 --> 00:45:29,340
manager, who was like in his
40s.

1175
00:45:29,570 --> 00:45:32,070
I was directly working with my
colleague who was like, it's a

1176
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:33,590
retirement job, is there 12
hours a week.

1177
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,050
He just puts the booze out.
Called Ken.

1178
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:37,890
Lovely boat called Ken.
But he was just 12 hours a week

1179
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,850
absolute legend and just was you
know, he just sprinkled life

1180
00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:42,550
advice every now and then.
He bought players going, ohh,

1181
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,430
you know, never do that.
And he walked past and and never

1182
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,540
like, I had never had any kind
of social interaction or

1183
00:45:49,550 --> 00:45:51,580
training, which we all pretend.
It's really important.

1184
00:45:51,690 --> 00:45:53,170
But I know your kids need to go
to school.

1185
00:45:53,180 --> 00:45:55,180
They need to socially interact
and learn how to be around other

1186
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:57,530
people and yeah, and make these
bonds and stuff and like, yeah,

1187
00:45:57,540 --> 00:46:00,690
yeah, cool.
Because then I'm gonna go and do

1188
00:46:00,700 --> 00:46:02,520
a complete different.
Generation work with people at

1189
00:46:02,530 --> 00:46:05,000
the same age as the teachers.
Yeah, I completely disconnected.

1190
00:46:05,010 --> 00:46:06,400
Exactly.
And it's a good point, I ask

1191
00:46:06,410 --> 00:46:07,520
you.
Different backgrounds and stuff.

1192
00:46:07,530 --> 00:46:10,690
Yeah, that's real life, what you
just said there for the majority

1193
00:46:10,700 --> 00:46:12,760
of people.
So does school prepare for that?

1194
00:46:13,010 --> 00:46:15,420
No, not really at all.
Completely agree.

1195
00:46:15,550 --> 00:46:17,850
I think the answer to this
question, by the way, I think

1196
00:46:17,860 --> 00:46:20,900
the answer is question is no.
Yeah, I just don't think that

1197
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,120
that that there's a obvious
solution that some people

1198
00:46:24,130 --> 00:46:25,750
pretend there is.
I think that's what I don't get

1199
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,420
annoyed, but I get frustrated
when people are like, Nah, we

1200
00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:31,060
should do all of this and I'm
just like, OK, but there is a

1201
00:46:31,070 --> 00:46:34,000
reason why we don't.
Yeah, yeah, I do get the whole,

1202
00:46:34,110 --> 00:46:36,280
because I think the point you
made a couple of times in this

1203
00:46:36,290 --> 00:46:39,250
is that, you know, some of these
things are difficult to

1204
00:46:39,260 --> 00:46:41,840
understand in real life and if
we've got kids who are

1205
00:46:41,910 --> 00:46:45,120
illiterate in English and maths
to a certain level, then it is

1206
00:46:45,130 --> 00:46:47,650
what it is, genuinely a waste of
time trying to get to understand

1207
00:46:47,660 --> 00:46:49,430
this concept.
That's even harder than the

1208
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,090
algebra.
They can't.

1209
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:52,200
Do and it doesn't mean there's
not other stuff in school, which

1210
00:46:52,210 --> 00:46:54,030
I think is also a waste of time.
I mean, the other thing to

1211
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,120
remember, I'm not saying that
we've got a perfect balance

1212
00:46:56,130 --> 00:46:57,860
here.
I'm just saying that it's not

1213
00:46:57,870 --> 00:47:01,000
necessarily going to solve all
our problems If we try and teach

1214
00:47:01,010 --> 00:47:03,190
a 12 year old about compound
interest and shopping for

1215
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,600
mortgages, which they will never
do for another 15 years minimum

1216
00:47:05,610 --> 00:47:07,630
in their life.
Like I just I think there's got

1217
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,360
to be there's got to be
something in place and again

1218
00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:12,280
whether it's the government or
not, I don't know I think

1219
00:47:12,290 --> 00:47:15,370
sometimes you and I have our
with our politics we rely too

1220
00:47:15,380 --> 00:47:17,820
much on the government doing
stuff honestly that's how that's

1221
00:47:17,830 --> 00:47:19,680
how I feel.
But quite I think we're quite

1222
00:47:19,690 --> 00:47:22,380
you know left-leaning in terms
of the government step in and

1223
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:25,020
and provide help when needed.
Like I do think there is an

1224
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:28,000
argument to say though like yeah
OK but if you're going to shop

1225
00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:30,880
for a mortgage it's just down to
your individual like research

1226
00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:33,260
like you just you do need to
just go and find out about it.

1227
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:36,160
Like, to me, that's different to
tax, like you said, yeah, I'm

1228
00:47:36,170 --> 00:47:38,540
going to go and work for the
system and be exploited.

1229
00:47:39,140 --> 00:47:41,290
You should be taught that.
But when it comes to like,

1230
00:47:41,340 --> 00:47:43,230
shopping for interest rate, do
you know what?

1231
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:45,370
I didn't know, but I learned it
in a week.

1232
00:47:45,420 --> 00:47:46,980
Yeah, like I just had to do some
research.

1233
00:47:46,990 --> 00:47:48,370
I'm like ohh that.
It's easier to do that now.

1234
00:47:48,380 --> 00:47:50,370
More than and it's easy then to
be like, well, why wouldn't I

1235
00:47:50,380 --> 00:47:51,810
taught that at school?
Well, that's why.

1236
00:47:51,820 --> 00:47:53,310
Because you just taught yourself
really easily.

1237
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,590
Because you had a whole
education where you were become

1238
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,760
a become literate.
And others got the skills that

1239
00:47:57,770 --> 00:47:59,380
you could.
Under skills, Exactly.

1240
00:47:59,390 --> 00:48:01,950
You've been in the workplace for
a while and you understand how

1241
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,690
to find information that's way
more important, how to find

1242
00:48:04,700 --> 00:48:06,530
information that's going to set
people up.

1243
00:48:06,540 --> 00:48:08,780
Because my point, my wider point
here, and I'm not gonna go into

1244
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:12,140
something, The point I'm making
here, is school will never ever

1245
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:14,520
prepare everyone for real life.
We could make all of these

1246
00:48:14,530 --> 00:48:16,200
changes that we're talking
about.

1247
00:48:16,210 --> 00:48:17,700
Hmm.
And there'd be a group of kids

1248
00:48:17,710 --> 00:48:20,020
who are worse off now for real
life because they got way more

1249
00:48:20,030 --> 00:48:22,250
out of the biology stuff.
They became scientists and

1250
00:48:22,260 --> 00:48:24,280
things like that.
School is never going to hit

1251
00:48:24,290 --> 00:48:26,960
every single child and get them
ready for ready for real life.

1252
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:29,320
So what we need to do is
maximise that.

1253
00:48:29,390 --> 00:48:31,980
And I think the way we maximise
that in school is by teaching

1254
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:35,040
skills really well.
If you teach skills really well,

1255
00:48:35,130 --> 00:48:38,520
with the odd splattering of what
they enjoy and facts and ideas

1256
00:48:38,530 --> 00:48:42,180
and stuff means when they're 28
and they come to get a mortgage,

1257
00:48:42,220 --> 00:48:44,830
you've taught them how to
interpret sources, how to trust

1258
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,910
what websites are going to give
them good advice, how to how to

1259
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,930
understand and comprehend data.
And and you know, you, you did

1260
00:48:50,940 --> 00:48:53,270
statistics, so you understand
this graph now and you know what

1261
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,110
exponential means and you know
what that kind of growth is

1262
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:56,950
gonna look like because you
understand what compound

1263
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:58,880
interest is.
You understand how much you're

1264
00:48:58,890 --> 00:49:01,970
gonna get charged over a certain
amount of time because I've had

1265
00:49:01,980 --> 00:49:05,070
all that foundation.
It means I'm then able to work

1266
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,060
things out for myself and learn
things myself.

1267
00:49:07,070 --> 00:49:09,950
I think that's way more powerful
than us just saying you need to

1268
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,010
learn about mortgages in schools
like, cool.

1269
00:49:12,020 --> 00:49:14,250
Well, I've dropped something
else that I might need then in

1270
00:49:14,260 --> 00:49:16,440
the future.
So I think it's more important

1271
00:49:16,450 --> 00:49:19,080
to teach people this Last I'm
gonna say before you come back

1272
00:49:19,090 --> 00:49:20,620
at me because I want to hear
what you think.

1273
00:49:20,670 --> 00:49:23,200
It's more important to teach
people and get them to a point

1274
00:49:23,210 --> 00:49:26,370
where they can learn anything
they need to because everyone's

1275
00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:27,540
going to have an individual
life.

1276
00:49:27,550 --> 00:49:30,860
So it that's way more powerful
to me then then preempting what

1277
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:33,050
they need to know.
Yeah, and I think that's great.

1278
00:49:33,260 --> 00:49:35,950
And I think for people like me
and you who did enjoy our time

1279
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,980
at an education and do well out
of education, that's great

1280
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:41,050
because it has set us up.
But a lot of people, a lot of

1281
00:49:41,060 --> 00:49:43,030
like you said, and it's never
gonna prepare everybody.

1282
00:49:43,100 --> 00:49:45,830
A tonne of people are coming out
of school, not even at that

1283
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,450
level.
Still so.

1284
00:49:47,460 --> 00:49:48,940
What makes you think teaching
about taxes would?

1285
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:50,090
Help.
I just think like you.

1286
00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:53,260
I just think it will reduce the
amount of people who are like me

1287
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:57,860
at 20 years old who will just be
fed misinformation with and

1288
00:49:57,870 --> 00:50:01,090
they've got no pre information
to to even argue against it

1289
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:03,170
with, right?
Yeah, I know I did learn about

1290
00:50:03,180 --> 00:50:04,380
this at school.
I'm sure that's not how it

1291
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:05,800
works.
I can't remember how it works

1292
00:50:05,810 --> 00:50:07,800
because I can't remember a lot
of things, but I'm sure it

1293
00:50:07,810 --> 00:50:10,430
wasn't that.
I just think having having had.

1294
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,480
But they won't remember the tax.
Either, and maybe not, but

1295
00:50:12,490 --> 00:50:15,160
having had exposure to it as
well, it might at least give

1296
00:50:15,170 --> 00:50:17,760
them.
It just gives people a chance at

1297
00:50:17,770 --> 00:50:21,170
fighting misinformation because
it's so rife misunderstanding

1298
00:50:21,250 --> 00:50:23,550
with with those life things.
Even.

1299
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,600
Just like how bills were.
The amount of people that don't

1300
00:50:25,610 --> 00:50:28,810
even know, like unless their
parents tell them, even know

1301
00:50:28,820 --> 00:50:30,480
that you have to pay for the
water that comes out of your

1302
00:50:30,490 --> 00:50:31,880
tap.
Stuff like that.

1303
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,890
That I I agree by the way that
there are levels.

1304
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,090
And I think that that basic
level of water costs money by

1305
00:50:39,100 --> 00:50:41,710
the way.
Or like, you know, you will be

1306
00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:43,930
taxed for the work you do.
So when you get a job that's 30

1307
00:50:43,940 --> 00:50:46,950
grand a year, you don't actually
get 2 1/2 grand a month.

1308
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,850
Yeah, you know you're gonna get
XYZ.

1309
00:50:48,940 --> 00:50:51,550
I think that's really, really
important and on a different

1310
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,430
level to like shopping for a
mortgage deal or or very

1311
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,870
specific stuff.
So I completely agree, like

1312
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,240
their easy wins we could put in.
Yeah, and not rely on family and

1313
00:51:01,250 --> 00:51:04,640
not rely on who people know.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1314
00:51:04,770 --> 00:51:06,190
Hmm.
What you thinking?

1315
00:51:06,250 --> 00:51:07,620
Don't know.
I'll just actually think

1316
00:51:07,630 --> 00:51:10,970
reflecting on your point about
some big up Ken from Asda and

1317
00:51:10,980 --> 00:51:13,460
just thinking about the social
side again, just kind of going

1318
00:51:13,470 --> 00:51:15,710
back to that and not just talk
about the kind of the knowledge

1319
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:18,050
of academics and things and just
being like, it's just really

1320
00:51:18,060 --> 00:51:19,610
stuck with me at that point
because I just can't believe

1321
00:51:19,620 --> 00:51:22,380
I've never thought of that
before that, you know, like it's

1322
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:24,390
like, yeah, of course, actually
when you go to get a job, you

1323
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,190
have to work with people from
different ages and generations,

1324
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,860
different beliefs, biases,
different upbringings.

1325
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:31,950
That's really hard navigate.
I think I found that really

1326
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,110
tough starting work.
I suddenly, suddenly talking to

1327
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,510
someone who's 35 years older,
older than me, who had a

1328
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,210
completely different experience
through life, has these

1329
00:51:39,220 --> 00:51:42,310
completely different opinions
politically about social

1330
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,530
structure, everything.
I'm just like, I've never been

1331
00:51:44,540 --> 00:51:46,390
experienced in this because all
of them, all of the kids my age,

1332
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,540
we all think the same thing.
We all just kind of agree with

1333
00:51:48,550 --> 00:51:51,320
each other because we're all
grown up together, just like,

1334
00:51:51,330 --> 00:51:52,550
deep.
Yeah, that's just weird to me.

1335
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:53,690
I'm like, what?
What can we even do?

1336
00:51:53,700 --> 00:51:55,280
Can we even do anything with
that?

1337
00:51:55,340 --> 00:51:57,490
I don't know.
Like, is that that goes back

1338
00:51:57,500 --> 00:51:59,730
down to, is that the school's
responsibility?

1339
00:51:59,740 --> 00:52:01,770
Like is it even possible?
For I don't think so.

1340
00:52:01,780 --> 00:52:04,070
I think.
I think that's where society as

1341
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,470
a whole needs to do much better
And the whole saying of like it

1342
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,230
takes a village to raise a kid
and stuff like that.

1343
00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:12,310
Yeah, I think that that you
cannot, I don't think you can

1344
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,290
manufacture that through like a
state-run school or something

1345
00:52:14,300 --> 00:52:16,770
like that.
I think you just have to what

1346
00:52:16,780 --> 00:52:19,610
the government maybe can do or
what you can do as a society is

1347
00:52:19,620 --> 00:52:23,170
like, you know, for example, I
know for example that you have

1348
00:52:23,180 --> 00:52:24,760
had your next door neighbour
round for dinner.

1349
00:52:24,830 --> 00:52:26,590
Yeah, they're an older couple.
Hmm.

1350
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:28,610
But I think a lot of people
would think, Oh no, I won't ask

1351
00:52:28,620 --> 00:52:30,440
them, because they're not.
Of my generation, my friends.

1352
00:52:30,450 --> 00:52:32,380
You've had them round for
dinner, so let's say Rivers

1353
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:35,690
6789, they come round for dinner
because you just make them

1354
00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:37,760
friends.
That's put her in that situation

1355
00:52:37,770 --> 00:52:39,120
where she's then.
That's true, you know,

1356
00:52:39,130 --> 00:52:42,120
socialising with someone on the
socialising level.

1357
00:52:42,250 --> 00:52:45,800
I think that's way more about
how we act as a society and how

1358
00:52:45,810 --> 00:52:47,450
we can build those things in not
the schools.

1359
00:52:47,550 --> 00:52:49,360
Yeah, the school.
It would be too contrived.

1360
00:52:49,370 --> 00:52:50,360
Like what?
What would you do?

1361
00:52:50,370 --> 00:52:52,760
Like go to a care home like
that's that's not normal.

1362
00:52:52,860 --> 00:52:56,980
It needs to be in real life
situations and I think it's I I

1363
00:52:56,990 --> 00:52:59,530
guess my overall point here is I
think it's important and I think

1364
00:52:59,540 --> 00:53:01,240
score has a huge role to play in
this.

1365
00:53:01,300 --> 00:53:05,370
But I I don't think it's healthy
to pretend that the best way to

1366
00:53:05,380 --> 00:53:08,270
do most of this would be through
real life as well.

1367
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,430
To prepare someone for real life
school is not real life to very

1368
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,310
manufactured experience.
Like you're with 32 people of

1369
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,160
your own age group, the only
time you'd ever do that and

1370
00:53:17,170 --> 00:53:19,370
you're being told a curriculum
which has been decided by the

1371
00:53:19,420 --> 00:53:21,690
people in suits.
What you need, you need to know.

1372
00:53:22,300 --> 00:53:25,000
Unless it fundamentally changes
from the ground up, to be

1373
00:53:25,010 --> 00:53:27,860
prepared for real life is to go
for real life experiences and

1374
00:53:27,870 --> 00:53:30,080
school won't provide them.
No, OK.

1375
00:53:30,090 --> 00:53:32,570
I want to clarify something
because I'm actually a tiny bit

1376
00:53:32,580 --> 00:53:35,000
lost as to what you think about
this right, based on what you

1377
00:53:35,010 --> 00:53:36,560
said.
Because my answer was no to this

1378
00:53:36,570 --> 00:53:36,950
by the.
Way.

1379
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,340
Yeah, exactly.
So you had a bit of a monologue

1380
00:53:40,350 --> 00:53:43,290
a minute ago about.
Yeah, it was good.

1381
00:53:43,300 --> 00:53:44,730
It was good.
But I was, I was kind of

1382
00:53:44,740 --> 00:53:46,070
questioning at the end like go
on.

1383
00:53:46,130 --> 00:53:47,640
OK.
If you are actually presented

1384
00:53:47,650 --> 00:53:51,540
with the opportunity now or it's
like, yeah, you can call a unit

1385
00:53:51,730 --> 00:53:53,080
from one of the year groups.
Right.

1386
00:53:53,090 --> 00:53:55,650
We're talking a minimal amount
over the whole education of a

1387
00:53:55,660 --> 00:53:56,900
child.
You're gonna call one of the

1388
00:53:56,910 --> 00:53:59,750
units over a whole term and
they're going to replace it.

1389
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,180
Let's say it's in maths, make
it, you know a big subject and

1390
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:06,100
it is going to be replaced with
some sort of unit where it's

1391
00:54:06,110 --> 00:54:08,600
just like the whole focus is
this is what the average

1392
00:54:08,610 --> 00:54:10,240
person's life looks like in the
UK and he's here.

1393
00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:12,590
All the things you need to know
to do it and it just and you

1394
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,440
know more than what we've
probably we probably touched on

1395
00:54:14,450 --> 00:54:16,460
a few things.
Yeah, imagine like tax and

1396
00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:18,410
paying your bills and stuff.
There's probably loads more.

1397
00:54:18,420 --> 00:54:21,170
If we sat down and thought about
it, you know, you kind of made

1398
00:54:21,180 --> 00:54:23,880
the argument for, well, you
know, you learn those things

1399
00:54:23,890 --> 00:54:26,000
when you need it, it's not
necessarily going to be useful

1400
00:54:26,010 --> 00:54:27,460
to learn them.
Would would you then actually

1401
00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:30,850
say no to that coming in let's
not replace something in the

1402
00:54:30,860 --> 00:54:33,570
curriculum that exists?
Or would you still be like, no,

1403
00:54:33,580 --> 00:54:35,840
OK, yeah, let's have that in.
There, I wouldn't say no to it.

1404
00:54:35,990 --> 00:54:38,690
I wouldn't say no to it because
I think it's, I think it's

1405
00:54:38,700 --> 00:54:40,780
useful.
And I think if you started with

1406
00:54:40,790 --> 00:54:46,200
a blank canvas and someone said
OK, you can learn soccer tower

1407
00:54:46,210 --> 00:54:49,730
and how to calculate the side of
a triangle and how to calculate

1408
00:54:49,740 --> 00:54:53,360
the side of a triangle.
Or we can do a unit on, you

1409
00:54:53,370 --> 00:54:55,990
know, bills and tax and stuff.
I think it would be really,

1410
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:57,860
really hard to argue against
picking the bills.

1411
00:54:57,870 --> 00:55:00,270
Yeah, because it does mean now
that the people that do end up

1412
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,050
going becoming mathematicians
have lost this.

1413
00:55:02,060 --> 00:55:03,670
Really.
And that's fine, because what

1414
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:05,260
we're doing as a school is
actually we're just trying to

1415
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:07,440
get as many people as possible
and more people do it.

1416
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:09,370
I'm not against that.
I don't want anyone to think

1417
00:55:09,380 --> 00:55:11,850
that.
What I'm saying is I don't think

1418
00:55:11,860 --> 00:55:14,910
that we're going to solve this
problem and prepare every child

1419
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:16,090
for school anyway.
No, no.

1420
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:16,720
For life.
Sorry.

1421
00:55:16,730 --> 00:55:18,770
Anyway no.
So what I'm saying is it's all

1422
00:55:18,780 --> 00:55:21,820
well and good saying ohh schools
are should this schools do that

1423
00:55:21,830 --> 00:55:24,060
And I'm not even against it.
I think some of the some of the

1424
00:55:24,070 --> 00:55:26,600
stuff you see like Santander and
all the big banks have like

1425
00:55:26,610 --> 00:55:29,300
released a lot of financial
literacy stuff and I think it is

1426
00:55:29,350 --> 00:55:31,190
is vital to be financially
literate.

1427
00:55:31,330 --> 00:55:33,820
And I think the amount of times
I've explained stuff to people

1428
00:55:33,830 --> 00:55:37,070
who've just asked me, like, what
does it mean pro rata, like I'm

1429
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,540
gonna go for a job, it says 24K
pro rata.

1430
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:42,880
Like, that's mental because a
lot of people just think 24K and

1431
00:55:42,890 --> 00:55:45,640
it's like, no, it's pro rata.
So like, maybe it's an 8.8

1432
00:55:45,650 --> 00:55:48,050
contract, you're actually paid
18 grand or whatever it is.

1433
00:55:48,330 --> 00:55:51,660
Like, I'm like, OK, that's
cheeky, but but why would you

1434
00:55:51,670 --> 00:55:53,810
know that unless you've been
told it, right?

1435
00:55:53,820 --> 00:55:55,780
Yeah.
And and and I guess my point is

1436
00:55:55,870 --> 00:55:58,160
you could have been taught that
in year eight or nine, but you

1437
00:55:58,170 --> 00:56:00,110
still might be confused.
With might be real, but a lot of

1438
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,180
people might not.
Be that and that's great and I'm

1439
00:56:02,190 --> 00:56:04,700
like I'm not against that.
I I think what I'm saying is

1440
00:56:04,770 --> 00:56:07,320
you're never gonna prepare
everyone for their life.

1441
00:56:07,370 --> 00:56:09,700
Yeah because what what is what
is everyone's life is so

1442
00:56:09,710 --> 00:56:11,960
different.
Like there are some people who

1443
00:56:12,170 --> 00:56:15,240
are self-employed and and need
to know their tax things.

1444
00:56:15,250 --> 00:56:17,890
There are some people who are
never self-employed get the gist

1445
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:19,860
that their tax something because
it goes to the government and

1446
00:56:19,870 --> 00:56:21,760
runs the NHS that they use and
stuff like that.

1447
00:56:21,850 --> 00:56:24,160
Do they really need to know
about the ends and outs of like,

1448
00:56:24,210 --> 00:56:26,480
maybe not.
Maybe they do, maybe they don't.

1449
00:56:26,490 --> 00:56:28,780
Right?
But I guess my overall point is

1450
00:56:28,790 --> 00:56:31,940
just quite simply, school is not
gonna pay everyone for real

1451
00:56:31,950 --> 00:56:33,060
life.
We can do the best we can.

1452
00:56:33,070 --> 00:56:34,600
We can still try and improve it.
Yeah.

1453
00:56:34,650 --> 00:56:37,600
Let's not pretend, though, that
there's one option that's gonna

1454
00:56:37,610 --> 00:56:38,280
fix.
Everything.

1455
00:56:38,290 --> 00:56:39,850
No, because it's not, I think,
anyone.

1456
00:56:39,860 --> 00:56:42,850
Thinks that, No.
But I think as a wider culture,

1457
00:56:42,860 --> 00:56:45,560
let's not just point to school
and say, you know what?

1458
00:56:45,610 --> 00:56:47,820
I don't know about this?
And it's because of school.

1459
00:56:47,890 --> 00:56:52,780
It's like, OK, but is there are
there other ways that we could

1460
00:56:52,790 --> 00:56:56,520
have learned these things?
You have to learn some stuff,

1461
00:56:56,650 --> 00:56:58,880
not from school.
Yeah, I guess so.

1462
00:56:58,890 --> 00:57:01,690
And to me, it's not the stuff
that we've left out.

1463
00:57:01,700 --> 00:57:06,980
Yeah, OK To me, OK that's your
what if I was to rank the things

1464
00:57:06,990 --> 00:57:10,870
I think are most important to
like the most people right at

1465
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,540
the top is like 100 people need
to read.

1466
00:57:13,180 --> 00:57:15,220
That has to be in school.
And then the percentages would

1467
00:57:15,230 --> 00:57:16,760
go down, right?
Like the amount of people that

1468
00:57:16,770 --> 00:57:19,500
need the thing, all of the life
skills we talked about in this

1469
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:23,250
one up above, I would honestly
estimate absolutely every other

1470
00:57:23,260 --> 00:57:24,800
subject and everything you learn
in them.

1471
00:57:24,810 --> 00:57:27,150
So would you, Would you just not
do biology anymore then?

1472
00:57:27,220 --> 00:57:29,550
I wouldn't do it because I don't
think I need that much space,

1473
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,300
but if, but if again but.
If you list everything, it's

1474
00:57:32,310 --> 00:57:35,770
like is are more people going to
put a table together in their

1475
00:57:35,780 --> 00:57:36,520
life?
Yeah.

1476
00:57:36,530 --> 00:57:39,110
Or put a bit of IKEA flat pack
furniture furniture together.

1477
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,070
Or, you know, learn how to
budget their money every month

1478
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:43,470
because they need to pay their
bills and stuff.

1479
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,870
Yeah, genuinely, Yeah.
But is that more important than

1480
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,250
knowing what the function of the
mitochondria is, Obviously.

1481
00:57:48,300 --> 00:57:50,820
So let's.
OK, drop that then if if we have

1482
00:57:50,830 --> 00:57:52,660
to put in a flat pack part.
Has to be replacing.

1483
00:57:52,670 --> 00:57:55,560
Sure.
But then I say that word a flat

1484
00:57:55,570 --> 00:57:57,700
but then but then the argument
carries on cause I felt that's

1485
00:57:57,710 --> 00:58:00,980
quite a like a like a headline
of a newspaper like getting me

1486
00:58:00,990 --> 00:58:02,580
like capture because then the
same thing.

1487
00:58:02,590 --> 00:58:05,340
OK but now let's check biology.
Is there something now less

1488
00:58:05,350 --> 00:58:07,800
important biology can stay in
and you just go to the bottom of

1489
00:58:07,810 --> 00:58:10,360
the list basically what's the
least important thing that they

1490
00:58:10,370 --> 00:58:13,240
do at school for a term and
we'll get rid of it and we'll

1491
00:58:13,250 --> 00:58:15,660
put this thing in.
It's like OK, probably, I don't

1492
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:19,840
know, maybe that maybe that unit
in German that they learn in

1493
00:58:19,850 --> 00:58:21,370
year. 11 yeah.
Yeah.

1494
00:58:21,380 --> 00:58:24,690
OK, check out our episode.
My language is.

1495
00:58:24,700 --> 00:58:28,360
That's why I put it in there.
But realistically is, isn't it?

1496
00:58:28,370 --> 00:58:31,460
It's like we something like that
there'll be some unit of some

1497
00:58:31,470 --> 00:58:33,460
subject that is like ohh mate,
you know what?

1498
00:58:33,470 --> 00:58:36,430
Nought point nought 2% of people
ever use that in their life,

1499
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:41,100
whereas like 80% use this thing.
And I think that would be a good

1500
00:58:41,180 --> 00:58:43,240
place to start.
I do.

1501
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:45,880
And I've got nothing against
that because I don't think

1502
00:58:45,890 --> 00:58:47,760
school prepares children for
real life right now.

1503
00:58:47,950 --> 00:58:50,820
I think it does a decent job at
what it's what it does do, which

1504
00:58:50,830 --> 00:58:55,320
is exposure stuff.
But it's it's impossible to do

1505
00:58:55,330 --> 00:58:56,090
it.
I think that's the point.

1506
00:58:56,100 --> 00:58:58,200
I'm coming across like I don't
wanna be defeatist or anything,

1507
00:58:58,210 --> 00:59:00,270
but the school is never ever
going to prepare everyone

1508
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,630
because like you said, how do
you, how do you mimic that

1509
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,870
societal thing where you go into
work with completely different

1510
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,260
age.
You can't you can't mimic that.

1511
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:09,650
No, no, you can't learn how
taxes work and that's important.

1512
00:59:09,660 --> 00:59:11,410
But as a whole, it's not gonna
happen.

1513
00:59:11,420 --> 00:59:14,010
And I suppose the point that one
of the last points you wanted to

1514
00:59:14,020 --> 00:59:16,940
make, and I'll, I'll throw it
over to you, is we, we, I think

1515
00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:19,370
we agree and everyone in the
whole country agrees that school

1516
00:59:19,380 --> 00:59:23,060
is not for everyone.
So you know, how do we go about

1517
00:59:23,070 --> 00:59:25,150
this?
Do we try and fix school or do

1518
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,470
we go down the route which is
already happening is an open

1519
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,310
different types of school,
forest schools, you know,

1520
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:31,830
farming schools.
And stuff like that.

1521
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:33,780
Like, I don't have anything
against those schools, you hear.

1522
00:59:33,790 --> 00:59:35,510
I remember hearing learned about
it when I was at secondary

1523
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,120
school actually.
I've been having my mind open

1524
00:59:37,130 --> 00:59:39,310
that there was this school where
kids went and it was basically

1525
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,780
just some giant farm.
And rather than doing the

1526
00:59:41,790 --> 00:59:43,780
curriculum that we did, they
went out and looked after the

1527
00:59:43,790 --> 00:59:45,460
animals every day and did all
the things I was like.

1528
00:59:45,470 --> 00:59:46,580
What are they all gonna become?
Farm.

1529
00:59:46,590 --> 00:59:47,450
That's an option?
Yeah.

1530
00:59:47,460 --> 00:59:48,290
I don't know.
I don't know.

1531
00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:50,000
Maybe.
Is that just as useless as the

1532
00:59:50,010 --> 00:59:51,610
curriculum?
I don't, yeah, I don't know.

1533
00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:52,770
I actually don't know the answer
to that.

1534
00:59:52,780 --> 00:59:55,590
But I like that those options
are there.

1535
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:59,540
I guess it just those those
things just open your mind a

1536
00:59:59,550 --> 01:00:02,060
little bit too.
There is more than this one

1537
01:00:02,070 --> 01:00:04,210
system though.
Like it might not be the best

1538
01:00:04,220 --> 01:00:06,980
system that we all went through
and have that circular system

1539
01:00:06,990 --> 01:00:07,650
that we've.
Done.

1540
01:00:07,660 --> 01:00:09,420
Centuries.
Now it's not, I guess.

1541
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:12,960
OK, I'm gonna move on
immediately because I think it's

1542
01:00:12,970 --> 01:00:15,280
really interesting, though,
because school.

1543
01:00:15,290 --> 01:00:18,550
You're in a school, OK?
And you have a you have a

1544
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,260
curriculum.
I always think back to one of my

1545
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:23,260
colleagues in one of the
earliest schools I worked out

1546
01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:25,220
one of the people I worked with
me.

1547
01:00:25,390 --> 01:00:28,450
No.
Who said they had someone in

1548
01:00:28,460 --> 01:00:31,810
their class and they were just
like, school is not for this

1549
01:00:31,820 --> 01:00:34,310
kid's.
School is not for this kid

1550
01:00:34,380 --> 01:00:36,330
already knew.
And it was like, yeah, three or

1551
01:00:36,340 --> 01:00:39,230
four already knew that school
was not for this kid and was on

1552
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:41,140
it.
And he, this guy was a bit sad

1553
01:00:41,150 --> 01:00:43,820
that he was like, he's got
another 10 years at this because

1554
01:00:43,830 --> 01:00:46,370
he just got to it's not for him
whatsoever.

1555
01:00:46,380 --> 01:00:48,750
It's complete wise waste.
I know what's gonna happen when

1556
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,530
this kid is older.
In 15 years, I'm going to go to

1557
01:00:51,820 --> 01:00:56,990
my local wildlife park, my local
zoo, and this kid's going to be

1558
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,790
a zookeeper.
Amazing at his job, happy as

1559
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,510
Larry doing a practical job
labour or something like that.

1560
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:03,180
Yeah.
Really good.

1561
01:01:03,190 --> 01:01:06,580
It getting on with people very
sociable and schools gonna fail

1562
01:01:06,590 --> 01:01:08,220
in 15 years.
You're gonna resent it.

1563
01:01:08,450 --> 01:01:10,420
He's gonna leave get a job like
that.

1564
01:01:10,490 --> 01:01:13,410
And his point was just like why
are we putting him through the

1565
01:01:13,420 --> 01:01:13,980
system?
Yeah.

1566
01:01:13,990 --> 01:01:16,860
Why are we putting kids through
this system which is absolutely

1567
01:01:16,870 --> 01:01:19,470
already we all know as
professionals that school is not

1568
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:21,520
preparing this kid for what
their life will be.

1569
01:01:21,630 --> 01:01:25,180
Why are we pretending that it
does like and no amount of

1570
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:27,460
change in the curriculum or
doing tax at the right time or

1571
01:01:27,470 --> 01:01:29,990
you know, giving him like that's
not going to fix this point in

1572
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,050
that school is absolutely not
for this kid, you know, what do

1573
01:01:33,060 --> 01:01:34,960
we do at that point?
Because that is broken at that.

1574
01:01:34,970 --> 01:01:37,000
Point Yeah, yeah.
Where's the whole And that That

1575
01:01:37,370 --> 01:01:38,850
was it from Albert Einstein or
something.

1576
01:01:38,860 --> 01:01:40,890
The whole judging a fish to how
it can climb a tree.

1577
01:01:40,900 --> 01:01:42,970
That analogy thing.
I always remember that picture.

1578
01:01:42,980 --> 01:01:44,410
I'm like such a good visual.
Representation.

1579
01:01:44,420 --> 01:01:46,140
And we got on the score.
We didn't really do anything.

1580
01:01:46,150 --> 01:01:47,400
I do.
Even when when that happens,

1581
01:01:47,410 --> 01:01:49,280
we're just like, Ohh, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, you.

1582
01:01:49,290 --> 01:01:50,980
Gotta do it.
So I think the school system

1583
01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:53,580
fails so many kids is almost
different conversation right

1584
01:01:53,590 --> 01:01:55,770
now, but it does and I've taught
loads over there.

1585
01:01:55,780 --> 01:01:57,660
For real life.
Doesn't have those kids real

1586
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:59,650
life now, because this whole
conversation, funny enough, has

1587
01:01:59,660 --> 01:02:02,020
been about the average kid.
And actually, the average kid

1588
01:02:02,030 --> 01:02:03,810
isn't everyone.
Yeah, and even the average kid

1589
01:02:03,820 --> 01:02:05,530
isn't fully prepared for.
No, not really.

1590
01:02:05,540 --> 01:02:06,870
They're still not.
Yeah, I still think.

1591
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,630
And then, yeah, like you said,
there's those outliers, but the

1592
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:11,730
country is so massive, those
outliers aren't one or two

1593
01:02:11,740 --> 01:02:13,670
people.
It's thousands and thousands of

1594
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,730
kids every single year who are
who the school system is.

1595
01:02:16,740 --> 01:02:18,290
Absolutely not remotely for
them.

1596
01:02:18,300 --> 01:02:20,970
And they get, they waste in
their entire childhood

1597
01:02:21,700 --> 01:02:24,930
resenting, probably end up way
worse off than just not even

1598
01:02:24,940 --> 01:02:26,630
going to school because they
actually just feel terrible

1599
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,080
about themselves because they
failed at everything they've

1600
01:02:29,090 --> 01:02:30,820
done all the way through.
Yeah, you're right.

1601
01:02:31,650 --> 01:02:33,830
Don't.
I said we leave that with the

1602
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,220
listeners.
Yeah, absolutely.

1603
01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:38,820
I think even that alone though.
Yeah, I guess the overall point

1604
01:02:38,830 --> 01:02:41,060
I'll make, I'll summarise then
You can maybe summarise what you

1605
01:02:41,070 --> 01:02:47,580
think is it's should school even
prepare every child for real

1606
01:02:47,590 --> 01:02:50,280
life?
It's a futile task and there's

1607
01:02:50,290 --> 01:02:52,370
going to be certain things that
we can put in, and I would never

1608
01:02:52,380 --> 01:02:56,400
argue against, but I think
there's a whole there's a huge,

1609
01:02:56,410 --> 01:02:58,780
massive different way to prepare
children for life and it's very

1610
01:02:58,790 --> 01:03:00,230
bespoke.
And I don't think the school

1611
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,890
system can ever do that for
every single child.

1612
01:03:02,900 --> 01:03:06,380
So I think what we should be
focusing on is how to make sure

1613
01:03:06,510 --> 01:03:10,990
every child can be ready using
the school system and other

1614
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:12,760
things as.
Well yeah, fair enough.

1615
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:14,560
And my one, just go back to the
original question.

1616
01:03:14,570 --> 01:03:15,950
Does it prepare children for
real life?

1617
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,020
I guess my overall point is just
is no.

1618
01:03:18,030 --> 01:03:20,770
Simply because there's just a
big chunk of real life that

1619
01:03:20,780 --> 01:03:23,290
isn't even hasn't even been
attempted to being put into

1620
01:03:23,300 --> 01:03:26,670
school life that would, in my
opinion, be prioritised over

1621
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,050
many, many other things that
already exist in school life.

1622
01:03:29,060 --> 01:03:30,710
Not everything, but many other
things.

1623
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,570
And that's the point.
I'd like to leave it on

1624
01:03:32,900 --> 01:03:34,330
listeners.
Let us know what you think.

1625
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:35,810
They get in touch with us
doesn't.

1626
01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:38,870
Just going to say, follow us on
Instagram at TP Podcast, Send us

1627
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:40,260
a message.
I'd love to hear from you guys.

1628
01:03:40,270 --> 01:03:42,140
Get involved in the polls, get
involved in everything else.

1629
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:45,860
And if you are listening right
now on a Spotify or Apple

1630
01:03:45,870 --> 01:03:48,960
podcast platform, which most of
you are, whatever it is

1631
01:03:48,970 --> 01:03:50,420
actually, can you please give us
a review?

1632
01:03:50,430 --> 01:03:51,960
It really does help us.
You've got this fine this

1633
01:03:51,970 --> 01:03:54,530
podcast, hopefully we weren't
that annoying and all four we

1634
01:03:54,540 --> 01:03:56,440
were actually quite interesting
to listen to, but we want to

1635
01:03:56,450 --> 01:04:00,060
hear what you think as well.
What would you introduce

1636
01:04:00,070 --> 01:04:03,140
immediately into the school
curriculum to prepare children

1637
01:04:03,150 --> 01:04:04,440
for real life?
What would you introduce?

1638
01:04:04,450 --> 01:04:05,970
Tomorrow that's going to be our
Q and.

1639
01:04:05,980 --> 01:04:08,720
A Definitely, definitely.
And I think I'm going to make a

1640
01:04:08,730 --> 01:04:10,990
real as well about that nice on
the day this is released.

1641
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,990
So if you found us from that
rail, hello, welcome, follow,

1642
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:15,980
it's great.
See you next time.

1643
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:16,690
See you next time.