Ep 59: Should Teachers Be Banned From Displaying Tattoos In The Classroom?

0:00 Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Teach, Sleep, Repeat. My name is Dedham. And my name is Hayden, and it's a special occasion today, isn't it? Why? Because we're celebrating Saint Patrick's Day just a month ago. OK everyone, who's not watching because we are back on video this week, but the hiatus last week we'll talk about in a second, but we are both worrying the greenest of green tops, but you've got something extra on. Yours. I got a bit of baby dribble on mine and it's rivers birthday today. You gonna say this, Rivers, baby drivers? Every month in your first year, Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's five months old. Today, yeah. Well, actually my 27 week old would take to differ. Anyway, not interested. So how are you mate? You alright? I'm good. Thank you how you did.

0:41 I'm really good. Excellent. Can I tell you a funny story from this week? Straight up. Come on, evolves. Me about you. Yeah, of course. If you have any stories that aren't about me, are you just why are you so obsessed? With my life as you? Yeah, thought so. As you will know if you listen to our podcast for a while, we have a lot of banter at school between us and our. Classes and hate that word and I really hate it. I we had a lot of banter. As I soon as you say we have banter it's like you've got none. You soon as you have to say it. Shut up talking about anyway. So at school, as always, if I'm on duty, I know I'm gonna get harassed by a bunch of year four children who will. Inevitably. There's something that happened that week where you've just rinsed me that the other day, by the way, as well. I was just walking to my class and a bunch of kids like Mr.

1:22 David, and they're all waving little pictures of my head. I'm above that then from the other week and I was like. We had a visitor in school and one of the kids was introduced. They got back on the subway introducing themselves. I'll talk about more about this in a minute. And it got to this child. And he didn't introduce himself. He just went. I've got a picture of Mr Stevens. Stranger cats. Yeah. Anyway, So yeah, I'm outside kids, kids coming out to me and generally being annoying. And and I was like, well, hang on, hang on, hang on. You know, they're throwing all these things at me. And I said it's Mr. Price surely told you, right? Like what? What was he? He probably hasn't actually. Quite. He's quite sensitive about this anyway. And I was acting up, you know, And I just said, do you know who do you know when he was younger, you know, like Tarzan and found the jungle was raised by wolves and all that stuff, whatever it is. Have you watched Tarzan?

2:09 Famously raised by apes. Ohh, what's the ones raised by? You doing Mogli? Mogli. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jungle Book. That's the one. Wolves under something in the Jungle. George when George the Jungle. Swings through the trees. Raised face. 1000 Raised by parents, he was He just repeats what you say. Classic Tarzan, anyway. George of the Jungle raised by wolves. And I said to them, you know, you didn't. Do you know Mr. Price was raised by like, what? No, I was like, he's raised by onions. They're like, what? I was like, yeah, he's raised by a family of onions and they were like, what? That's mad. And they were just going mental about this idea that you were raised by onions. Yeah.

2:49 I mean notice people cry when they're around him. He's he was raised by onions when you're younger. And then one of them threw it back at me perfectly. And I was like, you know, they're like, oh, that's weird cause your brothers. So you were as well then? Yeah. Ohh do I want to get rid of the you know the the other lie that we've built with brothers that was just funny. You're kid on your other your year fours are mad. Yeah, I love them. I love them so much like and when people cover them, there's a cover supervisor in year four, obviously. And whenever she covers the manner, she always says to me, I love your class because they they must be such a joy to cover because they're so funny and nice and lovely and I think we've got a really good relationship. And I I love classes like that have something about them. I really, really like that. Can I just say welcome as well to all the new listeners we had. We had a big spike and listeners last week after our Missus Smith episode.

3:35 Good job. Did a story based on the whole, you know, story of me and you giving banter. To all the judgement. Well, now you can go back and find out a bit more about our banter that Dylan loves. I really liked the episode of Missus Smith. She was great. She was, she was lovely. And yeah, welcome. If you're a listener on the back of that. And I, it's obviously linked, I'm sure, but I've never actually checked the charts of the podcast before. And you were talking about the charts. I think you were talking to someone else. I can't remember. Who I talked to Martin Malone, who had on before he mentioned the the charts. And I thought, oh, I've never, actually. Looked at him and Poppy. Poppy. Gibson, her name is. They've started to teach cost as well. He's doing bits. Obviously. He was on our show. He's a. He's called Not Another, Not Another. Teacher. Yeah. Not teach out, Yeah. I just thought, it's funny because there's a lot of each podcast and doing it, Yeah.

4:18 But yeah, you were talking about the charts and as I said on the reel, I I posted it saying we don't have iPhones. So like I'm I'm out of the loop of the Apple charts anyway and I just thought I'd check I've got an iPad and we were we were chatting 32 in education. Amazing like in the UK and that is nuts to me. Like and and I actually looked you can see where what your peak chart was and we peaked at 26. That's amazing. And and and down to you guys listening and sharing. And it's down to me good content that gives the credit to them. No. Is that you guys don't listen to this guy. So thanks for listening and if you haven't already, really, really helps us if you just do leave a review and I say all the time, but I I can't explain special apple.

5:01 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, our Apple reviews are low, man, Yeah. Right, because we've been pushing Spotify and doing links to Spotify all the time. Apple, actually, I think it's overtaking Spotify listeners, and you can't even watch on Apple. So if you're an Apple, all these jokes to make about video just go over your head and it's not even on. They're not watching. No, it's only on Spotify you can. Watch didn't just presume, that went to that. Platform and it's definitely your your fault that we're doing really well. We don't know how the gold which we charted, we were 26. We're still in the top 100. So guys, the more we can share. If you enjoy the podcast, we would absolutely love that. And another milestone. Drossos, we're talking ourselves up a little bit on then. Anyone who listens to us in the past knows I think one of our first ever episodes and one of our most popular episodes by the way, in that it's in the top ten of our episodes in terms of plays is how tutoring helped us go part time. So anyway, it doesn't know.

5:45 Hayden and I work part time in school Monday to Wednesday and we were able to do that because when we were working full time and young and wanting to put 1000 hours a week in something we also built a tutoring business on the side which allowed us then to go part time because we replaced our our money basically. And and you know we had a whole discussion. Should we just go full time into that? It's a tough one because we love teaching, there's benefits etcetera, but we can talk about it another time. The point being though we have a tutoring business and part of that tutoring business is we make content online on YouTube that's free and we've been doing a big sat to push at the minute. We tend to split our year between 11 plus preparation and Sats preparation because they're kind of six months apart at the minute.

6:26 Big push for Sats and we have gone past 10,000 subscribe on YouTube, which is insane to us. I know to a lot of people listening, maybe you think, well, I watched someone who's got millions, OK, I know. But you know for us 10,000, that first 10. 1000 is tough and we were just doing it for fun really. We've always just been doing it for fun. We've never really had a name with it, so it's quite cool. And it does make us money now and I think very quickly. I'm just wondering, people out there would be interested because I certainly used to be very interested in, you know what, what does it actually translate to? Because I was having a conversation with my family just talking about it. I don't really talk about business with people other than you unless unless they bring up an interesting one to ask. I don't want to be that guy who's just like, oh, by the way, this business, this is happening on that.

7:07 So I don't want to be that person. But they were asking about it and they they were shocked. We even made money from YouTube. They didn't even think that I was a thing. She was so good for making mad money. It's got a very good system. Yeah, I know. So very briefly, the ADD system is essentially the of the 100% of money that comes in from people paying to place ads on stuff. YouTube keeps 45% and the creators keep 55%. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. So that's the breakdown. So whatever we make, you can roughly double and Youtubes make taking that cut as well. Yeah, sure. But you know our channel, so we've got 10,000 Subs, we recently went passed 1,000,000 views total on our channel, which was another great milestone to go past. But we get in at the minute, we're getting about 100 to 120,000 views a month.

7:50 OK. So that translates to £450. So you know, we we are currently making just genuinely passively I suppose at this point we're still making content but most of the money is coming from old videos where people are watching again 4 to 500 LB and that's that's just on 120,000 views a month and. A tiny tiny. Tiny Channel and you just think of all those people out there like Mr Beast who puts a video out and within a day has 20 million. Yeah, the amount of money there is to make on YouTube, it is nuts. So when the kids at school. So you want to be Youtubers? Not for us to be like no, don't. When we've got 200 videos on our channel and we're like, no, don't do that. It's a waste of. Time. I'll tell you what, they're fun. They do think that we're celebrities. Don't know.

8:32 It's funny, funny. So funny, you replied to a comment on YouTube the other day and just someone and they're like, I never thought you would reply and they were like, if we we're massive. I'm just a geezer. I probably sat on the toilet. Have I ever told the story of this podcast? Probably. I forget everything of when when I was on a residential trip if I told. You this story again? I was wondering what had, yeah, I hope it's new. So for new listeners, I was on a residential trip last year or the year before with the With the Year Sixes, the classic overnight stay. And well, the place I was at was obviously filled with kids. If you've been a residential, you know, it's just, it's just carnage. There's thousands of kids from different schools and I was just waiting around with my class. We wait for our next activity and some some random kid from another school came up to me and I felt so good and just and just was like, oh are you are you that guy from from TD Tutoring YouTube channel.

9:22 And I was like, yeah, I am. He was like, oh, cool, watch your videos. They're really helpful. Thanks. And my old class were there and they were just like, gob smacked. They were like, Oh my God, I didn't realise we were in the presence of a insanely famous man. Yeah, had 7 views that video. Yeah, yeah. So that was kind of cool. But now YouTube's. Good. That is awesome. That is awesome. You wanted to you wanted to mention about river. I've already said that, no. Blank everything you say about her, because I don't. Care that I'm not editing, that we did a whole you literally came back with my son is weeks old. What's wrong with you? I just hear something about your child. I just. Switch. Unbelievable. And that is our life guys. Anyway, you talk about your week mate, because you know what you've done.

10:06 You've had a theatre group in your. I like that little subtle. Anyone who's not watching video, little subtle. Turn to the screen. Yeah, we. Just have a look at the notes that you. Got I wanted to chat about this so I'm hoping this leads into it of conversation as well because my favourite podcasts are where we do just kind of ad Lib this stuff. We are gonna talk later about professionalism. Obviously if you click this, the title is about being professional as a teacher and what's acceptable. Right. Just I love the idea that you gave the impression that we don't always add a little bit. We ever do any more than this Microsoft Word document of bullet. Points Can't See in front of us now is a Word document that I promise you, is less than 30 words long, right? 5 minutes before we record every single time.

10:47 Depression now. I really thought through everywhere. Really. No, we just we think of a theme and we just chat rubbish. But got something out of it. Actually, yeah, yeah, exactly. At this live. But didn't you wanna play the game with? I've added the. Game OK, so you listen to the end. We got little games to play. So kick theatre is the name of a company who are very are local to us, going to lots of schools. And this guy called Ian comes in. And Ian, someone that I've known and you've known since we started. He's been every school. Every single school we've been out and he always does this theatre kind of like workshop where the children come in. And the way it works is that he will tailor his workshop to what topic you want to do and he'll also tailor his workshop based on where you are in that topic. So if at the start of the topic of Egyptians, which we are for example, he came in and did a like an hour almost like it was honestly I can master class in just giving the children loads of facts to get them started and and find out what they already know.

11:41 And. But at the same time, which I think is lacking in our curriculum massively is the amount of teamwork, communication, you know problem solving which was going on live during this drama was unbelievable. And I just wanted to basically shout him out and say he is a master of what he does. And this is another example of how enrichment so good for the kids, because I I swear to you, we get 32 kids in the hall. He, he always gets them to sit in a circle at the start and all he's got is just a symbol that he hits. And when he hits it, they could sit down, right? That is it. And he just talks about using space, using imagination and he takes these kids on a journey. And if I think back about it, if I think about this, what the children went through, I vividly remember them building a pyramid and I vividly remember them mummifying someone.

12:29 None of this actually happened though, and there was no props. There was no, like, toilet roll to mummify. There was no blocks to build imagination. Everything was imagination. Everything was communication. He gave up roles, and in the meantime, he's not got a script. He's walking around the room giving facts about ancient Egypt, quizzing the children, asking him he knows everything about it because he just has done it so often that he's just an expert now. It's funny because in in my class we use our imagination as well it it, it works in it because we imagine that we've got glue, we pretend to stick in our sheets, we imagine we've got new pens and we, you know, we pretend our pencils or pens. Only it doesn't really hold up the book. Scrutiny happened. Welcome to the land of. Amazon we imagine. We've got new books as well we haven't got. We imagine this book. Really. In fact, me and you aren't teachers. We just imagine that teachers and this guy 10 hours a day in a room pretending to teach. But no, I thought it was.

13:15 I thought it was great. And I think the best thing about it was as a teacher, he led it. So as their teacher I could sit back and I was. I was taking pictures of them acting and their freeze frames and stuff like that. But I could just sit back and just watch how they interact with each other without trying to think, oh gosh, I've got to get through this lesson. I've gotta make sure they write this down. And actually then I've got to prove that they know something because they couldn't possibly know anything unless they write at the end of the lesson. They answer to the question I've been learning about no. Tell you what, in that hour, I promise you they learned more in that hour than they have learned in any hour slot of any topic. Lesson. Really. Yeah, definitely. Learn about what? Though that the Egyptians and and and and about, yeah problem solving and about communication and about skills of.

13:57 Work and why do you think that is then? Because you obviously in your hour sessions of doing different more just drill, engage, engage them. Do you think that's I? Think engagement is huge and I think doing is better than thinking and you know, no matter what. Everyone. For most children. For most children. Yeah. And and I think obviously you need a mixture but what I'm saying is as the teacher stepping back maybe pure Egyptian knowledge. It was not as much maybe yeah cause an hour of me just telling them facts but there'll be some children who absolutely picked up way more in that and and those children are the ones who will get lost in the classroom in the traditional sense And we're going to talk a lot about modernising teaching and this is one way a different way I suppose teaching needs to be modernised is just less Victoria and less stand back less teacher. The fact fact fact it's such a fact driven curriculum at the minute where you know OK this lesson we're going to learn all about Tutankhamun which could be so interesting. You could talk about Lord Donovan I think his name is who went you know funded the expedition from to go and find him and you could talk about his reign and how he we don't know how he died but all these theories that are based on historical understanding and and what we excavated and what we found and how we can interpret sources like that's an amazing conversation.

15:06 You have these kids, but I think the way you do it so important. And I think you have to have a mixture of different ways of doing stuff, and I don't believe in kinesthetic learners. And because that's been debunked a million times, everyone learns in all ways. But I do. Believe in. Learning certain things in different ways not just. Yeah here is the fact learn it in your brain. Yeah. And actually just having a funny way they were they were member it because I remember making a pyramid out of their body completely that will help them remember the fact that was tied to that like that's that someone isn't it that's different to absolutely the whole kinesthetic. What was that used to be kinesthetic auditory and. Visual like, yeah, you had to each. And the point of that was each child was labelled with it, Yeah. And it's like you're a kinesthetic learner and it was like you couldn't possibly learn in a different way. It's like you're just boxing people. It's just it's way more complex than that. Doesn't work.

15:50 It doesn't mean. Anything. And I have this this example of Now what we're saying is definitely true because it happened to me, because I still remember in primary school Roman Day where we all wore togas, which was really cool anyway, and we just took a like a pillowcase. And I had a rope around me because they used to like tie things around them obviously. And the person running it got me and this other girl up to the front who also had a rope around her. And he said, I remember him vividly saying to me, now you've been chosen because they're not. You've tied around you represents a knot that would have been tied if people got married. So me and her got married. And now I remember, you know, I remember that was funny. And I'm trusting that he knew he was talking about because I I remember that. I hope that's true.

16:33 But the point being, you know, with quality input. From an embarrassing. Yeah, maybe. But from quality input from professionals and you know, he's an actor, he is an actor, Ian, and and he talks about space and stuff. I was just fantastic and I just basically wanted to put out there and like if we didn't know already, these things are worthwhile, There's any sort out there. We spend money. This is what you should spend. On I love the idea of all the adults around them and be like, wow, it turns out everyone's a kinesthetic learner in here. No, no, they're just engaged. They're not engaged. When you sit them down for an hour and a half. Yeah, and get as many facts out as you can at them. Most kids find that really boring. And I am worried that's where the crumbs going. It's sort of already gone. Like, I am worried that we've just gone way too far down the rabbit hole of, you know, the quantity of facts is more important than the engagement and enjoyment of the learning process. Crazy, just.

17:18 We've said it before, but you know, so I won't go on about it. But no, you're right though it's worth saying, because I think that the act of learning has so many more benefits than remembering a fact. Yeah, 100% because do they do? Does anyone genuinely, is there a single person in the world? Maybe there is who actually needs to know the amount of facts about the beast from the chase? Things from the Chase? You one who wants, but realistically, is there any? Do you? Does anyone need to know? The Sinner man from the Chase. I give up the Egypt like the VIX option. The vixen from the chase. She needs to. Know this stuff. Apart from everyone from the chase and you from your millionaire, is there anyone who needs to know ancient Egyptian facts?

17:59 Really. Needs a history teacher. They can impart the same. Yeah, you know, yeah, isn't that so funny? It's like a self fulfilling prophecy isn't it? When you're like if you're an expat, something useless, yeah, it is like a self fulfilling thing of like well you need to know this because you might be a teacher one day you might be me telling someone else. That's our reason to know it. We just cancel the whole line. Why don't you come build a house? Yeah. It's different isn't it Because kids will say to me in like a maths, you know, they'll say why do we need to know this And I I think my, I don't know about you. I'm gonna ask you right now. My response I think is different in that subject to when it's when it's in a history and it's like why do we need to know this fact. What would you say to like?

18:40 Yeah, same question into in maths or history. I think, I think it's more useful to take away the subjects in that point and look at what they're learning and what they're doing. So what you're basically saying there is a difference between a problem solving process and knowing a fact. So I I think I I genuinely even if we were to take maths now and you're saying, well in maths, I would always answer it differently. Well actually in in maths if they asked me why do I need to know how many sides a nonagon has, I I would probably say to them you don't really like. Like that would be my point like. You unless you are the best and then the question comes up. Yeah, you do need to know. But then with history, on the flip side, if we were learning how to interpret a source and its validity and how much we can trust, yeah, I I would then say no, no, this is a skill that's really useful because when you're old you have to interpret the news and where that's come from.

19:28 So I think in general maths is more of a problem solving process. So in general you can say, OK, that's useful because ex and in general histories become this fact, fact, fact. And in general you can say that's a waste of time. But I think what good teaching does is in history, you do a lot more of the strands of the skills I think of, of how to interpret sources, how to understand civilization, how to understand the. The, you know, sequence of events and the impact it has on society, those kind of. Exactly cause and effect and things. Like and how you can relate that to now like that. I love those kind of history lessons when you you put it back to. We're learning about this because we can now use that lens to like, look our society. Now, and that's where history is. History always, there's the same history always repeats itself. So if you're doing a history lesson, I think you have to go in with the mindset of it's teaching the children actually how humans interact and behave.

20:20 That is what history is. And I I did a history degree. And yeah, I forgot. I know it is a bit of history. But this is a good point now because people always say to me with my history degree there, ohh alright then who was the Chinese emperor in 2000 BC? I'm like, I don't know, like a history degree isn't just me learning. All of the history. I don't just know all of the facts, but what we did learn about the very first like module we did when we did the history degree was called historiography and it was the history of history. And the whole point was like over time, how, you know, history has developed from it's still like got bias and it's still it's understanding that bias and who wrote it. But it it it's like over the times how written history was used to morph people's opinions of what happened.

21:05 You know, history is written by the winners kind of thing. Of course, if you think about the, you know, the ancient Greeks who quashed loads of different revolts and things, the people revolting were always painted as Barbarians. You know, they're Barbarians. Like they didn't have a culture. You know, they were these, they did child sacrifice and stuff like that. You know, well, that's written by the Greeks. So can we actually fully trust that? Do we actually have any history from the people themselves? Because it could be very different. And I think that skill is something in a primary school you'd strip back massively, but it has to be in a fun learning environment where they're learning things that are true but in the context of a wider skill set. Yeah, yeah, I I like how I went backfired is the wrong word about how that line of thinking has almost gone too far and like modern day, because then you get kids coming in and saying wow, yeah, yeah, actually, I don't trust any sources. Yeah, maybe the earth is flat because actually, I didn't write that textbook back in the whatever. Hundreds about the, you know, discovering the world is round. Maybe everyone that didn't think that was just quashed and actually it is flat.

22:03 It's like saying the world is round is also a leap of faith. OK kids, looks like we're finishing strong with science. This was No, we're not letting about Andrew Tate. It's just all the rubbish we. Don't. Yeah, we're not in the Matrix. Yeah, it's just a fact. OK, Can we observe? I will not get started. No. So it's a whole holistic approach. You're absolutely right. Hilarious. And I think skills for the afternoon are most important thing. And having fun because they're 8. Yeah, 100% said it before primary schools, in my opinion, it has no job other than to get kids to enjoy subjects. That is it. I think that is the absolute only point of it. And if and if whatever you're doing, if there's a better way of getting it to just do that one. Because I just want them to leave school enjoying it. I don't need an 8 year old, right? So I've got a quick story based on based on this. OK, so before we went into before and after we had our theatre session we had like 20 minutes either side. So beforehand I just showed them like I think it was a BBC bite size introduction to ancient Egypt. Just a very quick overview and I just chat to them about what they know and went into kick theatre. And during kick theatre, obviously, Ian's there explaining everything.

23:08 And the kids knew a lot about mummification. And he was really vividly describing the mummification process. And it was like, it was like gory. The kids like, yeah. Because you know, you're, ohh, you have to slice this side, take the guts out. And he was like taking the guts out like he was a magician. Like ribbon. How long the guts are. Yeah. And then you put them in a canopic jar. And the reason he had to do that is because he wanted to take it with them in the afterlife. And that was the only way to get through. Is so important. We had to put it in a jar. And then the heart, we weighed against the feather of truths. And it was all about if you were a good person, the scale would go one way. And then they put the heart back in because they didn't think that was actually that important, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the mummification happened and they would string it around and the it's like honestly, so engrossed asking questions all the time. And, yeah. And they embalm them and they do all this gross stuff. And someone said, what?

23:53 Like, they put gloves on, didn't. And he said no, no, no, no. This is ancient Egypt. This is thousands of years ago. They have anything they did with their bare hands. They literally just went in, took it and put in the canopic jar, moved on, mummified them. And this whole thing happened. Then this whole process went on. And then he talked about the crocodiles. The, you know, people who were caught raiding tombs went to the crocodiles. And then they were, they were hung over by their head and they'd be snapped, snapped, snapped like that gross stuff, all this gross stuff. And it was so, so brilliant. And then afterwards we went back out and I was just talking to the kids and I said, right on your tables, I want you to discuss with each other. And I said, um, how long is the River Nile? Because, he said, it's 6007. 100, yeah. Coming into a boyfriend, Yeah. But yeah, but this is the point. I wanted to see what they remembered. Yeah. Because it was engulfed in this, like, play. And I want to say, what's the mummification process? OK And I said to him, what animals might you see in in the, in the, in the ancient Egypt?

24:40 And they're headed to the crocodile, put their hand up and they said, yeah, a bear. I was like why wait to get out from So I bear. I was like no, they don't think they're any business. Well yeah. How did they mummify them about the bare hands? Ohh, brilliant. Because he said they did it with you Mama fight them. No, no, they did it with their back. Ohh, no. It's just love the idea that your kids. I used to do that stuff all the time about you. I'd always just get the wrong. He just sat in the corner. Wow. They they chopped off a bare hand. Just a moment. Where are they used that they've got. They've got me thinking logically, Yeah, they have gloves that you something other than that hand, so you got the. Band they put bare hands on. I guess bare hands are massive.

25:22 Yeah, it makes. Sense to me then a plastic gloves Nature. Egypt, but obviously, yeah, it's. Cool. It's so funny. Do you remember the other year when when he came in? Now, just for context, Ian is probably 20, between 20 and 30 years older than me, right? So yeah, a different age. I'd like to think that you'd be able to tell that we're not of the same generation. This is of the same theme of when that person asked, Have you got vaccinated? Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. So the other year, about two years ago, but he, Ian was coming in to do with your your class. Yeah, yeah, 3. Things and and one of his one of your kids said to you go and take over because you remember. Why said why is our history teacher Ian wasn't coming?

26:05 And that's the point. You just say why is our history teacher coming in. Yeah. And I'm saying what they kids I'm their history teacher said we are about because Ian always does history stuff. Basically your topic. And I was like well you know about why is it what do you mean why is our history I'm your history teacher like no, no, no. That guy who came in the history was in the hall and he meant Ian and I was like ohh we intend is he. No no not this kid. When I told you I just seen you. Because I waved us on year three kid in the morning when I was driving. Past. And he thought it was. So insulted I was like, come on 20 years. It's at least 30 years yeah Ohh man. But he's so good. He's so good. Away does and I would anyone in the east Kent area. I don't know how far they go get him get him in your school.

26:47 He is so good. It was a master class genuinely. I was in awe, like of the ability to pull that out of of genuinely. Nothing we've said before. Haven't we talked about PE? We've talked about the power of specialists, and that is just another perfect example of the power of a specialist teacher. Specialist drama teacher doing something to wipe higher level than and he didn't use props like. No, no. I spent ages preparing. This thing was props, but it still wouldn't even be remotely as fun. No, no. Because I guess the other problem is we'd be thinking we haven't learned anything down. Yeah, those kids wrote nothing. Like Smart Notebook. Yeah, yeah, Unbelievable. Unbelievable. But yeah, absolutely fantastic. And yeah, another reason why enrichment is so important. And the more budgets are squeezed, the less kids get out of this.

27:32 It's so important for them to get it. Hayden. Shall we crack on to our main topic. Let's do it. So professionalism as a teacher, it always gets people talking. You know what is professionalism? I think we all agree that, you know, as teachers we do need to have a certain level of professionalism. It's a job, you know, that at least was widely respected. And that idea of a teacher, if you said some, what does a teacher look like? You immediately think of something, I think and and there's a bit of a pressure to kind of meet that. And I suppose what I'm saying is here, I've had a really introspective thing for years now because for anyone doesn't know, before I was a teacher, I got a tattoo on my leg. I've got a tattoo on my arm.

28:15 You can see the bottom of it here if you watching the video. And that's before I decided I wanted to be a teacher. Hmm. And I've I've kind of been battling this with myself for a long time and I really want to know where you all stand and Hayden where you stand on this because there is a unwritten rule I'd say at the minute with teaching where he's absolutely cannot show tattoos, you absolutely cannot show tattoos. It's unprofessional and you shouldn't do it. Depending on where you. Are sure. And I think it's getting more LAX as time goes on. We're going to discuss that in a second. My context and I want to just put this out there, I want to know, everyone thinks basically, I'll tell you what I think I have a tattoo on my leg which is mainly based around the the design of a skull. Yeah. So there's a skull on the back of my cough and that means that I can't wear shorts basically that that's what I think anyway. And and what the rules of the school would probably stipulate that any school I've been in that I can't wear shorts and I've been going backwards and forwards because as you know we did this podcast.

29:12 We have strong opinions on stuff and I kind of have landed on the side where I actually agree with that. I I think I actually agree that I should not have that out on display when I'm in school as a teacher. And it kind of goes against a lot of my other politics and beliefs and liberal ideas of, you know, everyone does what they want. Kids will learn from different people. We can't demonise these tattoos and stuff. There are amazing people out there who happen to also have tattoos and if someone died their hair and stuff that would come on to later, I you know, I'd have less of a problem with that. But I think because it's a skull, yeah, I actually myself have never brought it up and I've never got it out and I've never, I've never said to someone, Ohh, is it OK, by the way, if I just wear shorts? Because I actually think that I shouldn't. Whereas one on my arm it's a bird and a rose. Tattoo, yeah.

30:00 I now are much more comfortable just wearing short sleeve shirts when it's peeing and it doesn't bother me whatsoever. So I don't know where do you stand on teachers professionalism and specifically tattoos and we'll get into more broad conversation in a second, like what? What would you do in my situation? What do you think? I think it's a there's a big a wider issue there. Hmm. And I get we'll come to the whole like what the content of the tattoo is in a bit I think because that's a kind of almost a different point. But like tattoos in general. I just think. I just think it feeds this kind of snobby like having an attitude that it's not OK to me feeds this kind of snobby snobby attitude culture of like, Oh no, it just, it just looks it looks beneath me and it has this kind of like club. It's like the class system in my head because do you know what? When, where, when?

30:43 I've seen teachers, velosa tattoos, It's always in places like naval units, yeah, and schools where the behaviour is not as good. Or children. Special Educational needs, School Special. And and it's like and and they always have and it's like ohh is that is that because they're like ohh no they're they're disgusting. We don't really like those schools are not mainstream so we don't really care about them so they can have the tattoos. But us in our mainstream school, do we really want nice normal? Children don't say that. It feels. Yeah, that makes. Me comfortable. I'm like, oh, I don't like that. I really, really don't like that it's just OK And these other schools because it all just it says to me it just stinks of like a social class system and it's like, well they're just not as important because you're important therefore you can't you couldn't possibly. And you can imagine this even higher class of like ohh no tattoos are disgraceful, you will be fired from the school. You know, children never get a tattoo. Only scumbags get tattoos.

31:31 Actually made me feel a bit sick when you said yeah, normal and. Normal, because that's what it feels like. And so for me, I'm quite liberal with that sort of stuff. I think it's, I think it's mad that that it's OK. If it was a blanket thing in the entire country, every single person agreed on it, I'd have less of a problem. But because it's not a blanket thing and it's OK in some places and not go in other places and very much down to almost the opinion really of like the head teacher or the couple of governor's body, I'm just like, well, that's just mad then. I just think it's whatever the lowest the nominator is, it should all just be that then, because why should? We That's really interesting because the lowest denominator can be a really dangerous bar to set like. If you think in general are the lowest nominates, everything's fine then like. Yeah, I think so. I think you've got to bring people up sometimes like you can. The lowest denominator isn't always where everyone should. Be OK?

32:14 Maybe, but I don't know. But I really just don't have a problem. With people in this respect. Are you talking about. Yeah. OK so let's dive in then. So who cares? I I actually agree in terms of if I saw someone else with just like a pattern tattoo. I've seen there's people I've worked with before who have, you know, like a little flower on their wrist or something or you know, something completely harmless. And and I would think that was crazy. If someone had a problem with that, I would genuinely, I would genuinely back them up and be like, no, why are you. So where's the line then? Exactly because I think my arm tattoo would be absolutely fine to have on display. It's a bird. It's a bird. It's a bird. And a rose. Like, who's gonna have a problem with that? I just think personally, having my skull tattoo out on my leg, which I really like and I I'm, I would never not have got this, yeah, in that situation of being a teacher. So does it just throw up more questions than it needs to? Do is it would you ever, would you ever show a cartoon picture of a skull and crossbones when you do a lesson on pirates? Yeah, absolutely.

33:08 Like you would Would you ever show any images of skulls? Yeah, like we we do. We do stuff with skulls in it at school. Kids love skulls. They're all fun. I don't know what's the problem. I suppose there is, there is a conversation there about but equally in society there is something we do agree on across the whole of the whole of culture, which is kids are should not be exposed to everything that adults should be exposed to by a certain age. Yeah, So there is a there is definitely a line to say actually if you came in and you had like a massive swear word like written. Up Sure. Obviously. And it's like, OK, that's a difference. That's not about you having to I have a problem you having tattoos, that's that would just be the same as I also wouldn't let you come in with a picture of that in any capacity ever in a school or a school. It's like there's nothing wrong with a skull. So I think you're putting maybe a bit more pressure on yourself, maybe to think that's bad you.

33:54 Should ask, Yeah. No, I don't know. Because the point, the point being again, we talked about this a million times and this this does link into professionalism as well. So I think in tattoos were kind of on the same page where I think we do need to step into the 21st century in general and just be like let's just apply what we would apply in every situation. If I walked in right holding a picture of, you know, a person who's nude, who's naked right click, that would be a huge problem and obviously be really stupid to do and I'd get in huge trouble rightly so. And it's completely inappropriate. So if that was on my body as well, naked woman clearly still horribly inappropriate and should be, you know, you know, not show that. I guess if I came in with a picture of a skull, people would just go, oh, what's that for? And crack on with their Yeah.

34:35 And I guess, I guess you're right. Maybe that's a really good promise to have. But let's push now into, I suppose, professionalism in general. And I think a big big talking point is, is clothing. Now we've done a whole conversation about the difference between male and female and expectations of what what to wear and the practicalities of what to wear. I kind of don't really want to go into that whole debate again. We've done it a million times. But I think what is something that's linked to this is, you know, teachers being professional and teachers having this idea of, you know, you are this, you need to be getting to this pigeonhole because that's what teachers look like. What's your opinion on clothing policies in general? Like, is the line too far formal? Is it not? Well, again, practicality to teaching, really, really liberal with this stuff because my general opinion, like I really overview opinion on on everything is just does it affect the way I if it doesn't affect the way I do my job, I just don't think we should care about it. And I know there's there are counter arguments, but we'll come back to in a minute.

35:29 But that's generally how I think I'm like, does it really? Is it going to change my teaching ability if I come in a T-shirt or a shirt? It would actually change it for me and I'd be way more comfortable at each. Other Yeah, you'd be more comfortable and that means changing for better. And then it just leads me to the question, the the wider question is what do we mean by professional then? Like, we talk, everyone mentions professionalism all the time and it's like, OK, we actually got an agreed definition of this. Or is it just the word we use? Yeah, it's a collar. Is it a posh way of saying I don't like that you're wearing that or doing that? And I've decided that. What is professionalism then, and what makes you less professional? Can you think of an answer to? That, well, traditionally it would involve what you're wearing. And I suppose that's the point we're making. Do we need to step out of that? Because I I would argue way more as a judge of professionalism is the quality of your work and you know your effort and your and your what's the word I want to look for? Like how good you are or something. If you've got eight more tattoos and came in a T-shirt and shorts just came in this, like just casual wear, would people judge you?

36:28 Do you think that you're you're not as professional and therefore probably not as good as your job? Yes, 100%. But is that true? No, you're still just the exact same person. So a lot of I suppose then is optics is what we're saying, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's down to what it's down to. Like I think sometimes people who wield that power are scared of what other people will think rather than I suppose, being proactive and and taking the line of no, no, this is fine. If you think different, you're completely entitled to that. But what I see from my end is a bloody good teacher who teaches things well, who has a rose on their arm like so. There are some people who express themselves in what they wear and you know, might have a very loud pattern on their on their top that day.

37:13 So the big counter argument I've always heard for this kind of thing and it is a good counter argument in my opinion. I don't really know, maybe we can explore it now. It's very much that, yeah, OK, this is all great, but at the end of the day in the UK we have uniform policies for the kids, right? And if we are modelling to if we are leading by example with the kids, is it really fair for us to come and do whatever we want And then when the kids shirts untucked, but I'll take your shirt because that's the policy, you know, we have this uniform policy because I don't disagree with uniform policy. I actually think it's a good thing to have inform policy because I don't think allowing kids to wear whatever. I think it's worse when kids wear whatever they want because it opens up a whole new social thing of like it's wearing designer clothes and taking the Mick out of each other. Their clothes uniform just gets rid of all that. So I kind of like uniform, but then I feel hypocritical if I'm like, yeah, I'm super liberal people do you want doesn't change your personality the way you look at what you wear. But kids wear all the same thing. Please.

38:09 Do you ever think that there's. SO this is really interesting to talk about Your personally quite liberal with this kind of thing. Do you ever have to step back and think this is what I personally believe hmm. But it's not practical one. I think in practise something we should have a different role do. Is that what you're saying now or do you are you so entrenched in what you think that you think that should be the rule for everyone like because I would argue with you. I think we're both quite similar in what we think now. But I I think I'm just a bit more practical. So what I would say about that is, you know, it all depends on the line. It's like, well, you're allowed to be liberal on. You think people should do what they want, but it is different. And you've got a job. It just is. It's like the kind of people who say free speech, like a free speech above everything.

38:50 Free speech is so important. It's like, yeah, but I can't go into school and say something racially discriminating because I would lose my job and that would be completely fine. Yeah. Like there'll be people say, oh, no, free speech. Free speech should be able to say what you want. Yeah, you can. But then people can react how they want as well. And I suppose the point I'm making is when it's in a profession and a job and you're getting paid and you're doing a job for someone else, there is like there is a line there where that person can draw the line closer to you in terms of liberalness and and and of course, of course, my it's gonna get a tattoo of a skull on my own. Yeah, no one stopping me from doing that. But what the person employing me is saying is if you want to work for us, though there are there are some red lines here and I don't want you to cross them. Like, do you think that's? OK, in a way, in a way, because I get the point, right.

39:30 It's like we're all virtue signalling to each other all the time because it's really hard to understand. You're very complex. So there's just this bar that's set where it's like we just you know if you if you fit this kind of category stay inside the circle then that's a good indicator that you might be the. Right person. I mean in general. I've chosen to work in a school, for example, where the rule is this. I've broken the rule because of my free will and my I'm allowed to do so. Is it my place to argue and say no, no, no, Well, no, sorry, I'm allowed to do this so I should be able to work for you? Or does the person employ me have the right to say, well, no, I choose who I employ and I don't want to employ someone. It's tricky line, isn't it? Because that's the whole debate about discrimination. I think you can't. You can't employ someone as a teacher who's not qualified as a teacher. But you can. That's the problem. You can't also not employ someone pregnant.

40:12 There's a whole, like, there's a whole. I think there's a whole line of discrimination there of like what? What falls into discrimination? That's I guess that's the point I'm making and like where does the line? Yeah, and I think I'm pretty set on. I am just more liberal than I think I am pretty set on. No, I think it is discriminatory. I think someone could come in and tattooed from head to toe, right. And the idea that they don't get the same chance at a job or maybe even don't get the job because of it, I'm just like, that's mental. I just don't think that should be the policy. I don't, I don't care. And if the parents have a problem with it, then the leader that's employed them because they really good teacher should should have the balls to go out there be no, there you go. You can't. I've employed this person. They're really good at that, that good job. Why you will judging them? Because they've got some. Tattoo. You made a really good point. I completely. Agree.

40:52 Actually the only thing it's just I just want to go back to you though that the only difference is, is that kids are protected. So if your tattoos crosses the line of like profanity and and inappropriate representation images, I do think there is still an absolute clear line on yeah, but that's just not OK. In any that's that's actually nothing to do with tattoos. You know the point. You're. Making Yeah, yeah. The wider point of having tattoos or not having tattoos. I think it should always just be OK to do that because it's none of our business and it doesn't make any difference to someone's personality if they choose to get one or. Not OK. So going back to clothing them. So I guess the point we want to make here is clothing policies. So policies that people put in place are entrenched a lot of the time in in like honestly Victorian era kind of standards.

41:36 Like if you think about the modern workplace #1A, lot of people work from home a lot of the time. We're not able to do that. And that's fine. And I do think that teaching is best done in front of someone by a professional for most of the children's time. I think that's the best way to do it. But even if you go into the workplaces these days, people are in, people are in trainers, people are in T-shirts all the time. These, you know, top level, OK someone a lawyer going and you know, a lawyer going into a into a court case isn't there. They're wearing a certain thing. Yeah. But you know, that's kind of represented in how much money they're often paid and. Once again, all it's a really important job. So they've got to look smart. The rest of you just didn't office jobs. It's that whole culture thing. That's what just I hate. It always boils down to that back to me in my head when I go down this logic train of Ohh.

42:18 Yeah. But I suppose that is a really important lawyers. Of course they can't. It does just boil down to, yeah, because we think they're important and we've for some reason attached importance to like. Looking. They are important. Yeah, they are. So what we think they should look at. Sorry. Yeah, I think we what we think is looking important looks like. This but there's OK. Is is is someone working at the till at supermarket not important. Of course they are exactly. But no one cares about what they. Were exactly, yeah, completely. Because because actually in society we do deal them as not as important. I say Bing people, I'm trying to be very PC here. Bin men OK, I know some women collections, but our bin men important. Yeah, of course. That's extremely important. Extremely exciting. Like relies on them. Others have trash. Everywhere and disease and you know, I completely agree with you. And I suppose the next few points here are all the same hair colour nails.

43:05 I are your nails. Yeah. A certain colour or or you've got longer nails done. I've had colleagues before we've come into me and said, ohh yeah, in the holidays I got my nails done. I had, I had a nice red nails and I was like, where are they then? I'd like to get rid of them for school. Yeah. What? Yeah. Are you Are you mad? That's not you, but is this system mad and you feel there's? Probably some little nuances of everything, like maybe maybe someone's policy against long hours. You work with kids all day. You don't you like you might scratch someone in the face or something. There's like little things. I'm like, OK, I kind of get that. But when it's just based on, we don't like the look of that because that's red and red. We've decided it's not good. If your nails are blue, that would be all right. So what do you mean? What you talking about? Completely, Completely. And I guess I wanna go back to the hypocrisy that you feel then I really want to dig into this.

43:47 I wanna get your opinion then. Because, for example, if a member of staff came in, let's say I dyed my hair bleach blonde. Yeah, right. I I think that should be absolutely fine. Yeah, it probably would be, because we've decided the blonde is no OK colour. Yeah, good point. But yeah, so not a natural colour I suppose, but normally, let's say I go a bit below like a lot of people. Like some streamers did that recently. Kids, people who look up to when it blue. Let's say I just had a blue streak in my hair, right? Realistically, I think that should be fine. Personally, I don't think that should be a problem whatsoever. And it's a lot more common with women, obviously, because women tend to dye their hair more than men. Yeah, if they come in like I I saw once one of our colleagues got their hair dyed silver and I thought it looked so cool. Yeah, like I thought it was really good. It was like it was almost just a bit different to Blonde, wasn't it? Wasn't a nice like silvery twin.

44:30 It was Silver and she had to change it and and I think in yeah, because because someone complained again, it's not even like a proactive thing. It's just someone else's opinion on something. Good job they did because she was a terrible teacher during the time that her hair was silver, right? Exactly. Which, no, she's a fantastic teacher, always has been. And you know what? She probably felt great about herself during that time was even better. Like, I just think self-care in that kind of respect is so important. But. But like I said though, with clothing like, the counter argument always comes back to me and I always struggle with. It, I was gonna say a kid can't. Do the kids like Yeah, he's the wider problem, That's OK That's not care about that either. Then, like, do I really care if a kid gets excited and inspired by their favourite streamer or footballer and wants to come in with that haircut for a bit? Like, does it really matter?

45:13 Genuinely. Well, to me, I've always found it mad when people talk about stream haircuts. I'm like, what? Like you can't. There are some schools now still. If someone came in with a Skinhead, yeah, that's it. No, sorry, you can't. Do that. Imagine 15 years ago, a kid coming with a top knot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 15 years ago extreme. That's ridiculous. Now it's like, Oh no, it's not extreme anymore because society. That's so true. It just shows how mad it is. Yeah, it's all about societal, kind of. Thing. Yeah, I just like, can we just scrap this whole? It's just rubbish. We're too worried about what people think. Yeah, that's it. That's it. And and and we give it too much meaning. We need to stop giving it so much meaning. It doesn't matter. And then there's one more hypocrisy, which is and we've I know you said you don't talk about it, but I'm gonna quickly mention which is just between men and women and it is just completely mad how how different the rules are.

45:58 And I actually think it boils down to a classic like patriarchy. Almost flipped the other way. I I I think I think it boils down to ohh, it's the same thing. Ohh, no men are so important. You can't. It's OK if the women wear sandals, but men, you're so important. I think it stems from that, which is just just ridiculous in my opinion. And that's an example of how perhaps that kind of patriarchal, you know, can impact men badly as well. Yeah, it's not a good thing for anyone to pretend that like I don't. I don't, honestly, I don't care like it. Like I made the joke a million times. If I turned up in sometimes what my female colleagues turned up in, yeah, I'd be turned away at the door. You wouldn't be not just cause I'm wearing a dress because, you know, I'm wearing the swearing level of casual or smart casual wear. If I wore the same level, there would be questions. Everyone.

46:42 I walked past me saying, Ohh, you having a day off, you know, that kind. Of thing. I reckon I could walk into any school and find a member of staff wearing skin tight leggings right where, when and a top that maybe doesn't even quite cover their bum. So it's all skin tight. It's very much see some sort of sandals or just you know really comfy footwear. So you're kind of baggy top. Your opinion there, would that be wrong? No, no, no, exactly. But I'm just saying, I reckon I could walk into any school and find someone and I reckon 0% of the time that's a. Man, Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's always cool, of course, and I reckon we'd never find a man didn't I reckon the most relaxed you'd get is someone wearing like Chino is where their ankles are out and they. Were. Yeah, and but you see a lot sometimes even in Scotland as well I've seen before, not maybe not Scotland general, but Colin Scotland. I saw someone wearing you know, like a a flannel shirt with like AT shirt underneath and the final shirt was open.

47:27 Yeah, like I said, you know, smart, casual basically. And I just think to myself, what harm is that doing to anyone? Yeah, apart from I would feel so much more comfortable teaching in that. Because you know what, primary school teaching is very active. You are all over. The place trousers and matching. Shirt. It's mad. It's not sad. Desk, It's crazy. You know, I never ever, ever wear a tie because I just, I you do sometimes. And I'm like what you doing? It used to. But again, I'm like people, some people want to wear a tie. I'm never going to say don't do it, but I just from my point of view, I'm just like that's just going to get in the no. I think it's I used to anyway, because I used to value the whole thing more, but now I'm way more like I don't care. I don't actually care about the way we look. I'm just gonna wear the comfiest thing that I can that I own.

48:09 OK, quick, just leave this conversation. But just quick one to listeners, right. So just think about this and I want you to just recognise maybe your own subconscious or subliminal biases and thoughts and opinions, right? Would you act or think differently if I walked into your school wearing the male equivalent to the person in your school? You can think of them right now. Who wears the most relaxed clothing? Would you Would you judge me and think about the fact that I'm wearing that in a different way to the person who already wears that? That happens to be a female. And I think the answer to everyone's gonna be yeah, absolutely. Because that's just the way society's. Gone. But I think as soon as I saw your face there but. Like, ohh, not this guy. Who's this guy? Yeah. OK, so you know, leave that, leave that to one side. Now in the school, I wanna talk quickly about the idea of professionalism outside of school, something that is, it's just, again, something I just kind of accepted when I started to teach training and just like, OK, Yep, that's part of the job, that that's cool. And when you actually sit and think about it, this strand that's in the teacher standards, it's almost like a separate strand.

49:05 It's like a separate thing. It's all the stuff you should do in school. There's just like a very short paragraph which is essentially describing that as teachers as well. To maintain the teacher standards, to be a professional and maintain your status as a teacher, you need to meet these standards. You must have a level of it's very vague, a level of professionalism at all times. Outside of school, in every teachers contract that they've signed, we have basically agreed to maintaining 24/7 levels of professionalism. And I want to ask you about what where's that line then like because again, school to school might have very different things. I know schools where it even it being known that you went to the pub and has three or 4 pints. Yeah, if parents found out about it, it would be a problem on your part, that kind of thing. Ohh you gotta be careful when you go out, you know, cause there were parents at that pub and you're you're a bit drunk. So you know, outside of work, you know, getting drunk at a local place, going, going to a concert and there are parents there and you're a bit tipsy is acceptable. That's acceptable.

50:04 Yeah, of course it is. Of course. Is it. Is there a line at all of professionalism outside of work? And we're, you know, got boils down to what the Hell's professionalism, probably. And I reckon it came from a good place. Like, OK, would it be OK if if I was single and I was just just outrageously flirting with one of the parents on the playground at the end of the day or even just outside of school, would that be OK with you? But the kids in my class, Yeah. And I'm just really fighting with them and I want to start dating this, this parent. And I only know them because through work, you know, through school, they drop the kid. Off ohh my that that's really stuck. Because that's the kind of thing to me when when they talk about professionalism, it's like. I'd say no. It's like kind of just keep a distance between, like keep your work and. I'd say it definitely, at least while they're still in your class.

50:50 I mean, but you said you say keep your work life and things separate. We both got with teachers who we worked with. Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know. That's that's as close as it gets to work. Yeah. But you agree there is a line if the kids in your class and you're single and the and you. I I personally would just stare away from that as a personal choice of just don't bother with that because if it goes right God it's only going to go wrong and and it's going to detriment you could should should you lose your job. Are you not meeting a standard if you date a parent who this kid goes to your school. I think that's really dangerous if we say. Yes, I think I don't know. I don't know. The answer is because I'm very aware of my own. My own indoctrination into our society.

51:32 So I know that my thoughts and opinions sometimes are very much based on the fact that I've grown up in this society for 30 years. Of course my opinions will be somewhat aligned to it, but I don't know. I don't know what the you know, but there's loads of examples, isn't there? Professionalism. I think they're the fringe ones that people talk about. Are the ones that get people. Really? Should I be allowed to drink alcohol out? Of course you should. I don't think actually probably many schools would give a crap. No. Not seen out in a pub. I think the difference is if you were seen out in a pub and you were breaking the law or you were standing on top of the bar, like being sounds being a nuisance. Yeah, yeah like being horrible doing something. Please get that is a bit like. I guess the idea is you're always representing the school whether you liked what you. Like, that's why it's in there.

52:16 That's the whole point. I think with a lot of jobs, you know, you step out of the roles soon, as soon as you leave. Teaching still has maintained without the level of wealth it used to create for people and put them right in the upper middle classes if they were teachers. It doesn't happen anymore. But we still kind of maintain that idea of that social structure of no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm in this profession which is very respected and and I'm a teacher, don't you know, and I'm in. I'm in the upper middle classes now. Not anymore we're not. But also we've still got to maintain that kind of societal. Expectation. And we can't change the fact that other people seeing you outside of work will think, oh, that's the teacher from so and so we can't actually make people not think. That no, of course and I don't have a problem. With that, yeah.

52:56 So the fact that they're doing that does lead me to have a be a little bit lenient with the idea that we should just be aware that even when we're not teaching to a lot of people, whether we're inside the classroom or not, we are still seen as the teacher from that class. So if we're seen as the teacher from that class by people and we're doing things that are against the law or like unruly like. Just being on a podcast, Yeah, Yeah. We get that a minute and things like that. Like I I think there is a place for at least to be looked at and considered whether whether there should be a blanket like you broke the rule, you lose your job. I don't. I mean, that's different, but. Perhaps that's the whole point of why it's there and why it's vague. I think. I think it's just there for there's always gonna be a great line with this kind of stuff.

53:37 Yeah. I think it's there for those grey lines for to try and catch as many teachers in the net as possible to be like just don't push it. So I think, I think me and you and most teachers we know will have this in the back of our mind now because it's written down and you know, we'll go out for a drink, we'll go out for a Curry. We'll have like four or five pints or be a bit tipsy but always in the back of the head. We're just like, ohh, let's not get blackout drunk like come at university because. Because I know that and I think that's what that does. It just catches those people in that net, those people who want to sit there and intricately account, which is me. I like having a line somewhere and I'm very much like that with everything. I want to know where the line is, what I can go up to and go. Past Why don't you? That's really podcast. That's a question for you. Why don't you swear on this podcast? Because I swear in real life all the time. I swear a lot. Yeah, I think it is. It is that if I think if I worked in my old job, I always go back to this cuz I worked in a supermarket. So that's my that's my go to.

54:28 When I'm comparing stuff. I'm not, I'm not labelling things as more or less important or anything like that, But I worked in Asda and now I work as a teacher. If I worked in Asda still right now and I did a podcast, I would speak like I speak outside of Asda at all times and that would involve swearing quite frequently. I'm quite frequent swearer. Yeah, do you know why? I think it's quite simple. It's the expectations. Yeah, because also when you when you leave your other job, there's no expectation that people can walk like that's the guy from. Asda we might do because I. Do like a bunch of when hundreds of kids and there are rules and expectations of your work that are quite strict in terms of like. Profanity and how you act to then break those rules outside where people could just easily see you with different. Whereas really as there is like would you OK, would you swear there was if there was a guarantee that no kids would ever see it but but some parents might obviously they're adults if there was a guarantee no kids would ever see it. Would you still.

55:20 I think I would still not swear. I know I would, because that's just me, because I'm very naturally quite sweary anyway and I think even if the parents at your schools you would see it would, you'd still swear. Ohh the parents at the school. But I mean just just children. Can't see it? No, because the parents and the kids, they come like with little. You know, in my head like. Because I know it's like, it's like had that conversation about AI reports, right? Yeah, I know that. I know that AI reports are OK. But I'm very aware that other people have misinformation or have a stigma about it, right? That that is powerful enough still to get me in trouble. So it's like you have to you still have to address it appropriately. Because it doesn't matter if I think it's OK if if 32 parents unanimously don't think it's OK, even if I think they're wrong, it doesn't matter still because it's still they're still they can still get me in trouble.

56:03 For I guess that goes back to tattoos and stuff. Yeah, I guess. Same kind of thing. So that's interesting, yeah. It's basically it's way when we started this conversation, I was like, yeah, actually pretty simple. I'm just liberal. It's actually OK. But actually it's way more complex. Yeah, way, way, way more complex. I think if there are lines, there always are. I reckon they could probably be moved a little bit. I think we could be a bit more lenient on what people wear at school, but more leaning on whether tattoos are OK as a blanket yes or no. A little bit more lenient than what people and what teachers can do outside of their outside of work without having to worry about everything. Yeah, some kids have parents have had loads of kids have parents tattoos. Like what? What are we kind of setting up there if they go to school and like the teachers can possibly show a tattoo? Yeah, my mum and dad have tattoos, yeah. Ohh, no, no.

56:44 But not the. The teachers could yeah, no. We only represented a portion of society that we think is actually. Important, Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, so your parents not in it? Yeah, it's mad. It's just it is. It's. All goes back to culture. Yeah, OK. Yeah. So thinking about us then in terms of obviously we're we're teachers and we just talked about how we wouldn't swear on this podcast, we swear on this podcast, we wouldn't we wouldn't date someone if we were single, wouldn't date someone at school. We we are doing a weekly podcast where although although we don't swear, we are very much you know, philtre off and we say exactly what we think about. Education and job and we're pushing the rules a bit because I know that when we started this we were a bit quiet, kind of a bit scared about. Doing that little bit, yeah. We were and I think we've got a bit more relaxed because we're like in the 60s of episodes now, but we definitely.

57:28 Didn't win the twenty 20s. Yeah, we definitely say stuff now. I think that we absolutely would have cut out of our first episodes. We would have been scared of like someone might misrepresent. That, but do you think anything we've ever said has been unprofessional? Probably. Do you think Probably, based on the line of what professionalism is, do you reckon? Yeah, I reckon so. What? I can't think of exactly what, but I imagine we have. Well think about today. Is it unprofessional for us to do what we've just done? Like should we ban this whole episode? Like is it unprofessional for us to critique. Should we have this should we be having this conversation in private like with the with the people in charge or you know is it OK to air what we think about stuff. I am really, really, really strong of belief now of the other liberal way where me talking about something, my opinions on something, it's absolutely worth saying because I only think you'd be scared of that if, you know it's stupid, but you don't want people to know.

58:20 So anyone listening to this is like, no, no, no, don't say that, come here, we'll talk about it and be like, well, why can't I say it? Because what's gonna probably happen in that situation is you're going to put your arm around me and say, look, I know, I know it's crazy, isn't it? But that that is the rule. So you know. Yeah, I guess I'm more a fan of open forums in general, because I think it does. It does remove that chance that you just gonna gasoline to think of something in private and it's a bit more like it's harder to out someone in the public forum when you want to just when you actually want to be manipulative and gaslighting towards them. True. So like you an open form, it's like, well everyone's my witness. Yeah, everyone's my witness. This is what I said. Everyone else saw what I said. And now what you've got to do is argue against what I said rather than trying to manipulate me into.

59:00 Things, yeah. Or trying to convince everyone else I said something I didn't because it was in a private conversation. That happens a lot. OK so I guess the furthest point here that one of the last points I suppose we're gonna make before play little game is um I know you've got something you wanna mention at the end as well about respect but the last point on this social media kind of thing we we are we were drilled when we when we trained to be a teacher and I guess social media wasn't new but it was still early on you know we're we're a good let's say Facebook was found in 2004 we're a good 20 years into social media now it's it's changed a lot. When we were training it was 10 years old, so still it was developing, still it was at a certain point and at that point it was very much no, no, no, no, no, have everything private. You shouldn't be able to, and there was even a have a train of thought.

59:45 That said, don't even have your face in your profile. Picture. Yeah, don't even have. It. Yeah, well, don't have it for a long time, but if you have it, don't have your face and do a name that no one can find. So like a lot of teachers now if you look online, they might use their middle name as their surname, because obviously, if my name is Mr. Price, it might be Dylan Black or, you know, it might be your initials or something like that. So some things I don't know. People I know. Yeah, exactly. So if you see that on Facebook, it's probably from that. We're not going to be found. Most teachers do. But I think that's that's changed a lot. And I guess what I'd say to you is now that was drilled into us. We put this podcast out into public. We have a Instagram page. Yeah, absolutely open to the public. On our, on our, on our podcast Instagram, we have a Facebook page, which is our tutoring.

1:00:31 We have a YouTube, which is just us. Everything's completely open. We are playing, we're playing the role of teacher on our tutoring videos. We are Mr. Price and Mr Stevens who plan and deliver lessons here. We're kind of going even further into our personal life, explaining what we're thinking. Yeah. So you know, for all we know, some parents might literally listen to this podcast and genuinely you might enjoy it and think it's cool. But yeah, I am the teacher of their children at the end of the day. Have we gone too far? I don't think so. And do you know what's funny? I still think we are confining ourselves in the rules because we're still playing characters. We're playing a character right now. We're not being me and you and I know we're not because as soon as this podcast ends, we'll go back into real menu who swear a lot and make stupid.

1:01:12 Don't tell him this is fake and we'll say things where people look at. I think we're weird. Yeah. We're still characters and I think that that's the difference, that there is still a big difference between what we're doing and true social media where you're just being yourself. Isn't everyone putting on a character when I'm with different people I had differently? Like of course this this is how I would act. Probably around 80% of my colleagues at school. Hmm. I my acting then? Or is that me? Like, at what point is it not you? Like, am I only ever me in front of like, two people? Social media, to me, right? It's like, it's just an amplifier. Sure. It is. Like, it is like just getting a massive loudspeaker for your personal life. So I kind of understand why, like you know? But we don't post on our personal pages. Pages.

1:01:54 No, I know other people do, and I'm trying to talk about the rules. Complete. I'm just saying for us. Hmm. You're absolutely right. Like we don't actually post our personal lives at all online. Really. No. But we post a lot when it comes to our characters we're playing. Yeah. Yeah. And that might include our personalised. I get it. But like just going back to just think about it more generally is not just me and you like the social media policies A lot of schools are very, very harsh blanket like you cannot use social media based you cannot do these things. And if you do it has to be so private that no one could ever find you. And I kind of get it in a way because it because just because it's an amplifier. Like if you're out in a restaurant and you said something that really was against the grain that people might genuinely take a massive offence to and disagree with you like just my opinion, my opinion. But it's a bit on the line, right? You're entitled to that opinion. But you know as a teacher there, there is that professionalism that we've talked about that in a restaurant could be quite bad. Someone seen your parents ever heard you talk about this. Imagine putting on social media where one, it's there forever, it won't get forgotten in a in a week. It's not only two people here at Heard, it's anyone that ever wants to watch it and they can look at it forever. That to me is like.

1:02:53 That's just such another level of like. So it's protecting the teacher and. Saying yeah, I actually think it is protecting the teacher. I I don't think despite everything I've said, I don't think social media rules of teacher's about professionalism. I don't think they're necessarily bad. I think sometimes they can go a little bit over the top because it's really what they're saying is there's all probabilities, isn't it? We don't trust you to control it yourself like I do trust you but but not really. There's a chance maybe that one time out of 7000 times you will say something or you'll get really riled up in a conversation online and end up saying something really harsh. It will go viral. He's talking about. Me and you'll represent the school because everyone think, oh, that's that teacher from that school and it will be terrible for us. So much worse than if you just done it in public. The person who taught us ICT when we were training to be a teacher had the story of when he first started and first got Facebook.

1:03:43 He was teaching obviously, and Facebook first became a thing and someone tagged him in a post, they've been out in the pub and he was simply sat at a table which had like 8 beers on it, right? And he got tagged in the post and he got pulled in by his head and said, you're gonna have to tell him to put phone down. You're going to sound. Yeah. And I think again, at the start of social media, when there was very much like, no, no, no, no, no, nothing at all, Yeah. And he told us that story and he was still of the opinion even then. He was like, so guys, listen, if you get social media, don't put your face in the picture. You see loads of people with a cat, you know, like you know. Don't just scare tactics like that says to me, right Someone, someone quite anxious could interpret that as OK, never going to a bar again in case someone else takes a picture complete with a pint.

1:04:23 Yeah, absolutely. Not even me doing it at this point. And that's what makes something. Completely. Legal, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and very normal. Maybe that's the line when it's when it's legal and socially accepted. If it if, it ticks both of those things. But that's not professionalism though, is it? Because professionalism is a made-up line. We've put that's closer to the grain than that. Otherwise we wouldn't need a line of professionalism. We just say legal. So there there is, there is that the reason we have professionalism is because we've brought that line way back and said yeah, and someone's decided and I guess this whole conversation is who decides and where should that line? Be So what I'm saying is don't have it needs to be pushed more back towards the legal thing maybe. Maybe it's just closer, I don't know. Maybe it's not quite on the thing because is it? Is it legal for? Is it legal for me to get blackout drunk and start walking the streets singing? It's legal.

1:05:06 Don't actually drunk. Thirdly. Probably. Not, maybe not. Yeah, actually, But yeah, OK, maybe the whole social generally. Is it legal for you to swear? Of course it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's there's a point. Yeah. Is it legal for me to get into an argument with someone and start swearing at them? Yeah, it's legal, but. But if it was a parent, would that go down well? No, I think you should get well. No, not really, because also in I think in society we generally think you're a bit of a even ask if you if you're shouting in someone's face and swearing, no matter how he did. The We do think you're an. Yeah. So I don't know, maybe just a bit more towards the is it legal and generally socially accepted? Like, that's true though, because I I'm a bit hot headed. I I get annoyed quick. Like some people might get upset and some people might get more reserved and timid or shy and stuff. I get annoyed really quick stuff. I might read something about what I think the politics thing. They've heard Dylan's rants on this. And I'll I'll very quickly my my emotion is anger. And just like emotion might be upset on my my emotion is just annoyed.

1:06:02 And I know that that if I reacted by getting upset by something or I reacted to the same thing by getting annoyed at something, something really you can't actually really control. We've talked to loads about how we talk to kids about how you can't actually control these emotions. Yeah. Yeah. And there is a societal kind of prejudice not prejudice. But you you think you see one as much worse than the other. So don't get angry, but don't get angry. Ohh, you're upset and you meet someone's upset. You immediately think, oh, you're OK, could stem from the exact same thing and just be a different chemical reaction in your brain and and and I guess the point I'm making is yeah, but one is socially unacceptable. Yeah. And you're going to face pushback from that. So should I be saying to everyone, No, no, everyone else, you're wrong and the same professionalism? No, you're wrong.

1:06:49 I should be able to show tattoos. Or should I just accept that the world won't change for me? It's going to be easier for me if I try and control my anger or it's going to be easy for me if I just cover up my tattoo. Should I accept? OK, that's how it is. Fine. I disagree with it. But I'm never going to change society, society. No, I think, I think you should fight back. I think you should make the point. I mean, just a quick one on your thing about anger, that I think it's again, of course down to probability. It's more probable that on social media get into trouble than real life. I get that's why there's more strict, it's more probable if you get angry, you're going to end up being physical or violent in general for people, right. I think that's probably why. Yeah, completely differently and and absolutely and there's loads of different angry, there's loads of different ways you get upset. So there's obviously going to be, you know, what people think those things. Can be for other people it was.

1:07:33 And there's loads of stuff too. We we actually need to finish up this podcasting. Ohh. We do our children swim. Sorry. In 10 minutes. Gosh. So. In that case, we're gonna pay a very quick game. We'll play the Jingle, then play game quick. All right, guys, really quick game. Because we do need to go. We do actually see something. Sorry to our friends a little. So I've got a game here we used to play all the time with my friends because we're just used to make up these silly games. Right? And what would happen is you would have an animal and an emotion. OK, so you know that. So I've got in front of me two animals and two emotions and they go together. So for example, you might have an annoyed sheep or something like that. OK, so. And then. And then what? You wouldn't know that I'd have to make the sound of what an annoyed sheet would make. And you have to guess.

1:08:15 And if you get it right, you get 2 points. Yeah. If you get one, you get one point. OK, that sounds good. Me and James from need Financial Planning. We we we talked about the other day. We like, we need to make it into a board game because it's so funny. Yeah. OK ready. So let's see if this works. Joining our first. So, so you you do the noise. I do noise and you got a guest and you get points based on. We both get points based on. Yeah, like how many you get. Guess at home play? Along you get one point if you get one right? Either of them. You get 3 points if you get them both. Right. So if I get emotionally. Ready. Here we go. Here's the emotion and the animal. Ready. Yeah. Right. More, right? Is it a sad cow? One point and you get another chance. Now for a bonus point, I got it one more time. OK, you got the cow ready.

1:08:58 Confused now? It was a shameful couch. Just to be clear, we didn't pick these ourselves. We use random generators. So. Yeah, we don't get a chance so, so I have to do 1. Now. Yeah, yeah. Cool. All right. OK, Ready. Yep, man. Is that excited, Chief? No. Is it zero point I suppose? Right man. Is that a shocked goat? Pretty much. At one point, it's surprised, Lamb. Ohh yeah. I got one point, so one one point each. OK, ready? Ready. Yeah. Uh ohh. Got another like sheep going on an annoyed shape. Neither of them.

1:09:43 OK, there's one more time. Ready. Man, that's a different animal. Do that again. OK, Alright, ready. Right. What is that? What is that? A constipated? A constipated goat. No, it was a board toad. A toad. They have like a gutshot. Ohh. Next time you. Next time you do it. My last one. Ready. Right. Yeah. Ready. Ohh is that an annoyed me? Is kind of different. Word.

1:10:23 OK, an angry and angry bee. Angry Wow, this stupid game. I love it. OK, And yeah, you can use that game in class by the way, to practise vocab genuine. What? I'll leave it with this What emotions do you think our girlfriends have knowing that we are gonna be? Slightly. Are they gonna be angry? Lamas angry, I think. Why are they long? Ago. And when they make a sound to be like Ohh, is that a yeah. We'll play that game right. Let's go. Bye everyone. Thanks to this thing. See you next time. Follow us. Wherever you guys rate us. Do everything. And don't get us cancelled. No, please don't. No, No. Bye.