Ep 48: Is OFSTED Actually About To Change For The Better?

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Hello everyone.
Welcome back to another episode

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of.
Tech.

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Sleep.
Repeat.

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My name is Hayden.
Ohh your name is Dylan.

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Ohh that was fun was.
That he knew what I was going to

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say, and he knew I'd say my.
Own name?

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Dylan.
Wow.

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And I'm Hayden.
Thanks for joining us.

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We do the same intro every
single week because we lack

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imagination.
We used to do little skits, if

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you go back and listen to our
first series and then we went

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out of ideas after about 15.
Episodes.

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If you managed to get this far,
you clearly weren't here for the

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skit because they're not existed
at about six months.

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They're not existed, weirdly
roughly the same age as my son.

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Why did we stop?
Ohh.

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It turns out my brain went to
mush.

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Hmm.
How are you?

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Yeah, my brain is mush.
Is it?

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Yeah.
Well, you've been quite.

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Ill long long day, long long
week, long day that week.

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This is same thing for you,
Dana.

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Week long week at work you.
Know.

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Go on, tell everyone what
happened.

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I had a whole day in this week.
So it was so funny.

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I asked you to tell immediately.
It's weird for me to talk over

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Hayden.
I can make a compilation a

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compilation of that.
What's really strange as well?

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There you go.
What?

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What's really strange is I try
and butter up as like me having

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some kind of point, but really I
just don't want to listen to

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your voice.
It's too much.

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And this two person.
Podcast.

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It's like when we, when we
prepare for these episodes,

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we're looking at, we're looking
at we're doing a bit of research

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or whatever, honestly within if
we don't find the answer

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summarised nicely within 10
seconds, I can't find.

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I get fed up with this and we I
can't read more than a line.

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Listen, listen, why don't we
just do a podcast where we just

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say what we think and not back
it up with anything?

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At all that.
We've done that for two seasons

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and 20 episodes.
That's what we're on now.

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No, that doesn't make.
Sense No2 No.

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We're on Season 2, episode 20.
Yeah, Gosh.

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Baby brain, by the way.
It's not just a phenomenal,

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phenomenal nothing.
Yeah, I think it's not just the

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thing for the women who give
birth.

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Clearly that's a big.
I thought it was a chemical

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thing.
People talked about your

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hormones change and stuff.
No, no it's it's apparently for

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the blokes as well, you just.
I've also.

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Because we were babies once.
Yeah, we've had it since then,

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exactly.
Because men's brains don't work

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too good.
I'll do repetitive thing over

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and over, but I have to think
for longer than 10 minutes more

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people.
Where are the nappies?

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I do not know.
Anyway, I forgot my weight,

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Dylan.
How's your week?

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I've been poorly.
Going on and on.

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We've had the flu.
You have the whole house or?

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Whole house.
Lauren had it first.

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I think she caught it from.
Your I don't know, because

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they're different symptoms, but
maybe, yeah.

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Maybe we all got sick at the
same time.

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Anyways matters it.
But yeah, Long got sick and then

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I knew I was gonna get it as
well.

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And we were just worried about
ever getting sick and obviously

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she ended up getting as well, so
she's been really poorly.

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That is something, isn't it?
When?

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Because obviously they're both
our first borns and Rory's been

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ill as well.
It's horrible when they get

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their first illness.
It's nasty, you know.

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You expect it, but it's not
nice.

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It's the main thing is like, I'm
not.

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She'll be fine, She'll go over.
Everyone gets it.

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It's just the fact that she
can't breathe properly.

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No, because they can't.
They're not very good at

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breathing.
Apparently for the first like 3

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months they're just.
I looked up and yeah, then only

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brief for their nose.
My next thing I looked up was

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why?
Why is that?

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They got a massive mouth.
Can they just breakthrough?

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They can't run, walk or talk or
do anything when they're born.

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And by the way, they're bad at
breathing, which is just the

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only thing they have to do.
They're bad at that.

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OK, cool.
Bunged up nose and

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breastfeeding's tough, OK Are
they?

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Are they ready at night?
Should we just not do?

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Nine months should be 12 months
to do.

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Anything but.
They do literally anything like

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OK.
Can't see either.

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That day is run off.
Ohh, how's that deer?

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Two hours, alright.
Yeah.

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Have you ever seen a baby
giraffe?

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Or something.
Just straight up, Mum.

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Anyway, yeah, so it's been
poorly.

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We're always been poorly as
well.

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Obviously it's he better now
because I think you.

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Got it?
Sounds better, but it's it's the

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nose thing.
We can blow our nose.

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A baby is just like my only
passage for Air Blocks.

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We've been trying this, not
sucker.

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Yeah, it doesn't, but it's
rubbish.

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It's it's it's like when it
works it's good, but for us it

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works like one in five.
Yeah, like apart from that, it

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just he hates it as well.
He doesn't sit still remotely

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when you're trying to do it.
Saying inspirate seems to work a

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little.
Bit just imagining it.

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Just thinking, yeah.
Now what?

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Imagines I'm getting you down.
I'm putting a chew on your nose

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and I'm just sucking the other
end, but like, get off.

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Quite like it.
Yeah, Go live on the podcast.

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That will get the people
viewing.

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Yeah, we we do record these by
the way, video only listens on

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audio if.
You're listening in your car.

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You might have one of those
screens where you can put no,

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I'm, I'm joking.
Don't put us on.

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Don't put us on.
Sorry, I just want to do the

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reaction.
Is that what it's like?

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We're interrupting you.
I did enjoy that.

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Not even drugs.
You're telling them to break the

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law.
Yeah, no.

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You know, wherever you are, pop
us on your screen.

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We're both looking, I must say.
A bit crap today, bit

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dishevelled, a bit tired.
Yeah, it's been a long old week

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for you.
Heading in a cough.

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One one day in school.
So you went back the way the

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kids happy to see?
You funny things the first.

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The first thing I heard when I
walked in during Breakfast Club

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was Blue Shirt Man's back.
Were you wearing your blue

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shirt?
Yeah, of course.

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It's my uniform.
I only wear one.

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They're all blue, yeah.
So I was like brilliant, turn

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back around, went home.
I I want to dive deeper a bit

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here on this catch up because I
know a lot of people listening

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feel the same way.
Obviously definitely in school

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and some some outside of school
as well.

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But I think as a teacher's point
of view, I feel like this is

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very much a teacher thing.
When you're ill or absent, it

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does feel like you put a big
load on your team around you.

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And I'm sure that happens in all
jobs, but it feels like we're

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teaching.
Especially you can't not have

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those 32 kids in, so someone has
to cover them and teach them.

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But also you can't prep
anything, you can't mark

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anything, you can't do anything.
What?

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Like, how does that feel for
you?

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Because obviously you're
constantly off because you're

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Skype.
So how, how does it, how does

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that affect you?
Do you feel morally bad?

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I felt terrible, you know, I
felt really bad.

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So because the last time I was
off was was paternity leave.

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Sure.
And it just happened to be that

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we're doing a mock Sats, so I
teach year six for anyone that

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doesn't listen before.
Which obviously we know

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honestly, these year six
teachers, by the way, I teach

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year six, OK.
I can't.

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I'm, I'm doing Sats, yeah.
So yeah, the last time I was off

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Rosie was mock Sats.
Yeah.

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And I've got top sets across the
board, so the completely maxed

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out sets.
So the most kids in my classes.

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So it's all the other teachers
had to pick up all my marking.

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Ohh and gap analysis and it
takes forever.

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Yeah.
And I felt really bad.

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So this and then obviously I was
off this week and we guess what

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we're doing, we were doing test
week again.

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So it's year six, so every other
week, test week, isn't it?

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So yeah.
So I felt really, really, really

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bad and I got you to bring home
all the test papers.

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And I honestly, I'm not joking.
I'm just trying to exaggerate,

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like all look at me.
I reckon I spent a whole day's

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worth working during your during
during the two days off across

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the two days I definitely,
definitely spent at least 10

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hours marking tests and no 100%,
really 100%.

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He did that thing where it's
like it felt like 10 hours.

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It was because I sat down at a
certain time and then I didn't

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finish until I went.
To bed.

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And you didn't start that whole
time.

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That's what I mean, because I do
this a lot.

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And I'm like, yeah, I spent all
day doing it.

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And actually I spent. 3/4 I'm
sure I wasn't very efficient.

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Sure, but I did set.
That was all.

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Yeah, OK, crazy.
But the problem is, I've got 32

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kids in English doing a reading
paper, full reading paper and

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and they all got like 40 plus
out of 50.

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So that's so they're answering
everything I've.

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Just slipped that in.
By the way, they didn't, they

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didn't all get it.
But a lot of them, you know,

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more than half are smashing out
these marks, man.

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Anyway, so yeah, I did feel bad
and I ended up taking on a lot

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of work when realistically in
any other job, if you're sick,

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you just stay off and rest.
And I still felt pretty ill

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yesterday, but I thought, I
can't have three days off.

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That's terrible.
So I came in anyway, and then

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ended up feeling worse.
Yeah, it's really annoying

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because it's definitely true
that I don't think I've ever

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returned to work when actually
my illness is.

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Over.
No, no.

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I don't think that's just a a
hangover because to me it takes

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a lot for me to call in and I
know for you as well, and for

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most people, especially when you
work in a school and you have

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those kids every day, you miss
that chunk of learning.

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There's nothing I like less than
it leaving cover for any reason,

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even when I've got training or
I've got a meeting or something.

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It's frustrating because you you
are so embedded in that

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procedure of day one to day 2
day free building up stuff.

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Even if someone does a fantastic
job, which no doubt they will in

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the meantime, it still wasn't
you delivering it.

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You still don't have that
invaluable knowledge of where

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your kids are because marking
the books only gives you so

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much.
Even if you went back and looked

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flicked through that book, I
think it highlights how

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ineffective marking is because
nothing will come close to just

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being in the room and teaching.
Them.

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So you don't like being off?
I hate being off.

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Is that why you went part time?
Yes.

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There's a clip.
There's a clip right there.

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I'll set you up.
I just hate Hayden.

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I'm there for the progress.
Monday to Tuesday to wait, but

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not not Wednesday to.
Thursday.

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No account.
They're done by Wednesday.

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It's hump day, isn't it?
I'll tell you what though,

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Thursday mornings are my
favourite morning now because

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obviously we're not in work,
we've got a bit more flexible in

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terms of our business and when
we do work and stuff.

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And Rory just sits on me for an
hour in the morning and I'm

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like, ohh, I would be in
registration right now and I'd

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be stressing about getting maths
done.

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00:09:03,710 --> 00:09:05,600
So that time is really precious.
So I do appreciate.

229
00:09:05,610 --> 00:09:07,840
Have you started teaching about
like tax returns and things?

230
00:09:07,850 --> 00:09:09,120
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

231
00:09:09,130 --> 00:09:11,560
So anyway, doesn't know I'm a
bit scatty.

232
00:09:11,570 --> 00:09:14,300
I mean, you probably know by now
how long we into this thing.

233
00:09:14,350 --> 00:09:16,120
I mean, sure, I've mentioned it
before.

234
00:09:16,190 --> 00:09:21,440
I'm not neurotypical.
Basically, we have to pay our

235
00:09:21,450 --> 00:09:24,360
tax returns.
Hayden what?

236
00:09:24,410 --> 00:09:26,180
You just this just every year
just.

237
00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:28,480
Don't know.
So Hayden Ohh, he's very

238
00:09:28,490 --> 00:09:31,240
organised with our accountant.
He'll send things he needs to

239
00:09:31,250 --> 00:09:32,760
send.
The accountant will do the

240
00:09:32,770 --> 00:09:35,360
reports for us literally like
what we're paying for.

241
00:09:35,370 --> 00:09:38,510
So he does all the hard work and
he'll just send us back a number

242
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,180
that we have to go online and
pay.

243
00:09:41,650 --> 00:09:43,840
Obviously hated does it
immediately because he's a

244
00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:47,410
normal hateful message.
Me going right you've got to pay

245
00:09:47,420 --> 00:09:50,250
X amount of money by the end of
January.

246
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,010
I stopped reading them by the
end of it's not the end of

247
00:09:54,020 --> 00:09:56,210
January so it's just not
important right now.

248
00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:58,950
And you sent me another message
3 days later going remember, pay

249
00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,210
your tax return.
This is like January the 10th or

250
00:10:01,220 --> 00:10:03,290
something.
And I yeah, don't worry about

251
00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:05,050
that, I'll get.
Done, you replied to me, you

252
00:10:05,060 --> 00:10:08,970
said, Ohh messaged me on Jan 30.
Four.

253
00:10:08,980 --> 00:10:09,960
Yeah.
Yeah, I was joking.

254
00:10:09,970 --> 00:10:12,930
No, I'm not doing it again.
So you said that.

255
00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:15,170
Listen, I I could tell you're
actually annoyed.

256
00:10:15,180 --> 00:10:16,730
You're like this.
This is the last time I'm

257
00:10:16,740 --> 00:10:18,240
telling you now.
I'm not gonna tell you.

258
00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:20,290
This takes less than 60 seconds.
It did.

259
00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:22,530
Please just do it right.
You're messaging me on your

260
00:10:22,540 --> 00:10:24,510
phone?
End of Jan.

261
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,850
Just do it now.
So January 30th, I was around,

262
00:10:28,860 --> 00:10:32,170
got one day left and it's not an
insubstantial amount of money

263
00:10:32,220 --> 00:10:33,180
like that.
We've got to pay.

264
00:10:33,190 --> 00:10:35,950
So I'm like, OK, I don't know
why they're where the limit is

265
00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,950
for like clearing and stuff and
how long it takes to go through.

266
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,790
And I was like, she probably did
the day before the 31st, did it

267
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,550
all perfect, no problem.
And then we were talking to our

268
00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:47,510
friend who we arranged for going
out for a Curry.

269
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,730
When this comes out, we have
already been out for that Curry

270
00:10:50,300 --> 00:10:52,050
with our other teacher friend
works in different school.

271
00:10:52,060 --> 00:10:55,560
We train with him and I was
tasked with booking the with

272
00:10:55,570 --> 00:10:58,520
restaurant and I could just tell
straight away he was like for.

273
00:10:58,530 --> 00:10:59,870
God's sake, yeah, I already
knew.

274
00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:01,420
This isn't.
Going to get booked there.

275
00:11:03,810 --> 00:11:08,410
So I I said in the chat, by the
way, guys booked it for 7:00 PM

276
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,570
and Hayden was like, no, you
haven't Basically you're like,

277
00:11:10,580 --> 00:11:12,590
OK, yeah, is that with your tax
return that you've not done?

278
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,950
And I did them both one after
the other just in time actually.

279
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,510
So I'm feeling myself, yeah, now
ago it was literally just

280
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,930
before, but.
Listen, why are we splitting the

281
00:11:21,940 --> 00:11:23,830
small stuff?
And I'm not like, it's like I've

282
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,230
missed deadlines before.
No, no, that's that's what I get

283
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:27,960
PTSD about.
Because you've you've done it in

284
00:11:27,970 --> 00:11:30,150
the past.
You've missed the.

285
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,260
You've had a fine because you
missed the payment.

286
00:11:32,270 --> 00:11:35,740
What's a little bit of not
paying tax between friends and

287
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:37,490
you know that I got a fine by
the way.

288
00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:40,280
Yeah, was he was the first year
of the business where we didn't

289
00:11:40,290 --> 00:11:42,830
make enough money to even pay
any tax, right?

290
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:43,970
Ohh.
Yeah, that's right.

291
00:11:44,090 --> 00:11:47,100
All we had to do was submit a
tax return saying that I wasn't

292
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:49,400
paying anything.
Yeah, I I missed that deadline.

293
00:11:49,410 --> 00:11:50,510
So I don't think we had a proper
account.

294
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,330
And then you didn't.
I missed that deadline, didn't

295
00:11:52,340 --> 00:11:54,620
do it.
And I gotta find £100 to pay no

296
00:11:54,630 --> 00:11:55,580
tax.
Yeah, I got paid.

297
00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:58,740
I gotta find 100 lbs Because I
didn't say in time that I wasn't

298
00:11:58,750 --> 00:12:00,870
paying any pounds.
Yeah, I was like, oh, that's

299
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:01,450
annoying.
Yeah.

300
00:12:01,460 --> 00:12:03,020
So if you start a business, it's
pretty normal.

301
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:05,540
By the way, first year we made
no money.

302
00:12:06,980 --> 00:12:08,920
Yeah.
And then there's what we're

303
00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:10,070
We're still not making any
money.

304
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:11,430
Wait, are we not doing business
right?

305
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:12,760
Wait a minute.
You made the right.

306
00:12:12,770 --> 00:12:13,630
Is it?
No.

307
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:15,020
You want to make money for
podcast?

308
00:12:15,070 --> 00:12:16,980
No.
We don't make any.

309
00:12:16,990 --> 00:12:18,990
Money No.
Sponsored by Needs Financial

310
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,990
Planning.
James, if you're listening, what

311
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,040
a fantastic service you run.
But the sponsorship we've got

312
00:12:25,050 --> 00:12:26,840
with new financial planning, we
haven't actually received

313
00:12:26,850 --> 00:12:32,590
anything yet.
Use the code Hashtag top dog to

314
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,740
get to get to get 10% off all of
James's services.

315
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:38,530
Don't.
Don't.

316
00:12:38,540 --> 00:12:40,300
Not real real.
Not real.

317
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:41,900
Gonna get James in trouble.
He's a fine.

318
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:45,130
He's a financial advisor.
He would advise me to pay my tax

319
00:12:45,140 --> 00:12:47,170
much earlier.
Yeah, maybe I need financial

320
00:12:47,180 --> 00:12:50,180
planning.
He's not an accountant.

321
00:12:50,190 --> 00:12:51,970
Gets very annoyed if anyone
calls him account.

322
00:12:51,980 --> 00:12:52,570
It's not.
It's not.

323
00:12:52,580 --> 00:12:55,470
It's different.
It's like calling a teacher, a

324
00:12:55,550 --> 00:12:59,260
professor.
Basically the same but.

325
00:12:59,750 --> 00:13:01,400
Ohh so counter.
So he's an accountant.

326
00:13:01,410 --> 00:13:03,350
Then he's gotta be fewer than
his sister to this.

327
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:04,660
I tell you what though, I do
love James.

328
00:13:04,670 --> 00:13:07,570
Yeah, he's a nice guy.
He's a lovely guy and sorts out

329
00:13:07,580 --> 00:13:10,280
your finances.
All jokes aside, so do you

330
00:13:10,290 --> 00:13:12,510
remortgage in?
It's a bit of a tumultuous time.

331
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,260
Go and talk to Need Financial
Planning.

332
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:17,220
Great guy.
Anyway, jokes aside, all of

333
00:13:17,230 --> 00:13:19,870
that, I want to finish off this.
Couple of things.

334
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,270
Number one, I'm using one of my
questions in school.

335
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,790
Fantastic resource.
I don't really go too much into

336
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,930
it again.
But another thing, if you're

337
00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:28,730
listening to this and your
scores, thinking should I try a

338
00:13:28,740 --> 00:13:30,030
free trial of learning by
questions?

339
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,720
Just do it.
If you've got iPads, laptops,

340
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,890
it's a bit complicated at first,
I felt, but you have a courtesy

341
00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:38,610
call with the people who train
you and what to do.

342
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:41,740
And at this point it runs itself
with my groups, with my kids

343
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:43,710
that I have, and it has.
It's linked to White Rose.

344
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,490
It's linked to Mass mastery.
It's linked to The National.

345
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:47,010
Curriculum second summary what
is it?

346
00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:50,830
Basically, you go online, you
can find individual small steps

347
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,940
for maths lessons.
But not only maths has English,

348
00:13:52,950 --> 00:13:55,370
science, geography and history.
So it's it's branched out.

349
00:13:55,380 --> 00:13:57,440
I use it for maths personally.
I think it's really good for

350
00:13:57,450 --> 00:13:59,210
maths.
Very small steps.

351
00:13:59,220 --> 00:14:03,930
You can go in and you can track
your children on each question

352
00:14:03,980 --> 00:14:07,060
on a very clear spreadsheet on
your screen so you can see who's

353
00:14:07,070 --> 00:14:08,830
getting what right, who's
getting it wrong, who's taking

354
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,490
more than one attempt, who's
trying again.

355
00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,420
You can go around the room,
intervene and say OK, well see,

356
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:15,230
you're struggling with this one,
let's work on whiteboard

357
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,450
together, then you can try it
again.

358
00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:18,950
My 30 seconds is up.
Danny's give me the watch.

359
00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:21,210
Basically go and give it a go to
really cool resource.

360
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,310
It's very straightforward and
I'd say within two sessions my

361
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,780
year four's completely
understood and knew what to do

362
00:14:27,790 --> 00:14:30,340
and they were off doing it and
you just set us that you picked

363
00:14:30,350 --> 00:14:32,580
the teacher Sponsored by Need
Financial.

364
00:14:32,590 --> 00:14:35,610
Planning more questions?
No, it's a great resource and

365
00:14:35,620 --> 00:14:37,770
the last thing before we do
crack on.

366
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,550
Here we go.
Just a little check because we

367
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,630
had the little bit, didn't we,
where I'm a bit annoyed we

368
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,600
didn't do any kind of forfeit
because we said at the start of

369
00:14:46,610 --> 00:14:50,760
the year we're going to both
have something we're aiming to

370
00:14:50,770 --> 00:14:53,850
do every single day of the year.
The person who lasts the longest

371
00:14:53,860 --> 00:14:54,610
wins.
Yep.

372
00:14:54,620 --> 00:14:57,490
Haydens was to do a fasting diet
which works for him where he

373
00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:00,240
eats for an 8 hour window in the
day and over 16 hours he

374
00:15:00,250 --> 00:15:02,930
doesn't.
I was to cut out sugar

375
00:15:02,940 --> 00:15:07,460
completely In terms of added
sugar we're talking chocolate

376
00:15:07,470 --> 00:15:10,360
crisps, not crisps.
I mean if you crisps not much

377
00:15:10,370 --> 00:15:13,260
sugar and crisps and that's
that's the one thing about

378
00:15:13,270 --> 00:15:15,750
helped me get through.
I've had the odd Chris, but no

379
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,430
chocolate, anyone knows me, no
fizzy drink, nothing that's got

380
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,680
like, you know, packed with
sugar, just meals and no snacks.

381
00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:25,360
Like that.
Fruit for snacks and stuff and

382
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,870
and for your big news, have you.
Well, I've been ill this week.

383
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,710
OK, well, that's a relevant, but
not really relevant though, is

384
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,630
it?
I crumbled.

385
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,120
Yeah, I crumbled.
This crumbled.

386
00:15:36,130 --> 00:15:38,250
I ate both mornings, Monday and
Tuesday.

387
00:15:38,260 --> 00:15:40,950
You didn't tell me, Did you?
Did tell me in 30 minutes ago?

388
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:41,790
Yeah.
Not right now.

389
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,550
Yeah, right now.
Yeah, I crumbled.

390
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,010
I crumbled a bit ashamed.
Yeah, should be.

391
00:15:47,070 --> 00:15:48,560
But pathetic.
I don't wanna.

392
00:15:48,570 --> 00:15:51,950
I don't want it to be over.
It's, it's, it's.

393
00:15:52,020 --> 00:15:53,090
It's.
Normal.

394
00:15:53,140 --> 00:15:55,050
It's how you come over.
You're humble.

395
00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:56,350
I wanted you to win.
Yeah.

396
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:57,480
Humble crumble.
Humble crumble.

397
00:15:57,490 --> 00:15:58,590
Thank you.
Had some humble crumble.

398
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,600
Lovely, anyway, but in all
seriousness, you're doing

399
00:16:02,610 --> 00:16:04,100
really, really well on this
thing, cause.

400
00:16:04,170 --> 00:16:05,680
Don't look down, you.
Said lost.

401
00:16:06,010 --> 00:16:07,720
You know, you've lost a bit of
weight.

402
00:16:07,930 --> 00:16:09,700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ohh Flex.

403
00:16:09,710 --> 00:16:11,110
He's got his abs out.
What?

404
00:16:11,290 --> 00:16:14,440
Yeah, just say, you know, before
we started this podcast, he was

405
00:16:14,450 --> 00:16:15,780
standing, right?
If you're watching, he was

406
00:16:15,790 --> 00:16:18,070
standing right there, where my
hand is, just here, behind where

407
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,600
the microphones are with his
T-shirt.

408
00:16:19,610 --> 00:16:22,540
Up.
To his breasts, jiggling his

409
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:23,840
belly in my.
Breasts.

410
00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:28,470
Belly in my face.
So yeah, it's still there.

411
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,370
You.
Know, but it's smaller.

412
00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:31,350
But I don't want to give this
up.

413
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,210
So basically you're really well.
I don't want to change the wind

414
00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:34,700
cause.
But it's already ended, so I

415
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:36,380
started.
Challenge right?

416
00:16:36,390 --> 00:16:38,710
You win the 1st.
Round one nil, One nil.

417
00:16:38,770 --> 00:16:40,300
January win.
What's February?

418
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:40,970
Right.
February.

419
00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:42,360
I'm going to join you.
OK?

420
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:43,910
I'm gonna do no sugar.
Yeah.

421
00:16:44,620 --> 00:16:46,570
In your last.
Yeah, I mean, I already gave up

422
00:16:46,580 --> 00:16:47,350
this morning.
Yeah.

423
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:48,350
Wait a minute.
Sorry.

424
00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:52,450
Go on, go on, go on.
Last night.

425
00:16:52,460 --> 00:16:55,090
Right now, we're in the group.
Chat No, no, we're in the group.

426
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:56,500
Chat.
Well me and Lauren were also

427
00:16:56,510 --> 00:16:58,170
talking last night.
OK And we were saying we're

428
00:16:58,180 --> 00:17:00,030
getting fat like come on we got
we gotta sort ourselves out.

429
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,140
Yeah I was like right let's do
this.

430
00:17:01,150 --> 00:17:03,240
Let's do no sugar.
Cause I mentioned about maybe in

431
00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:06,630
February joining you on the no
sugar thing anyway and she was

432
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:07,609
like cool and I was like, OK,
right.

433
00:17:07,619 --> 00:17:10,240
We've got we've got a little
Easter egg downstairs and one of

434
00:17:10,250 --> 00:17:12,599
those little caramel eggs left.
I think other than that there's

435
00:17:12,609 --> 00:17:14,640
no sugar left in our house.
So we just once they're gone,

436
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:18,869
we'll start with a 500 LB Sugar.
Yeah.

437
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:24,920
Says Laurent in the Castle.
It's January.

438
00:17:25,430 --> 00:17:27,170
Leaves the light brown sugar out
for me like.

439
00:17:27,180 --> 00:17:29,900
Ohh that's not really nice.
Ohh Demerara, yeah.

440
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,750
So Lauren, obviously being a
normal human, was like, no,

441
00:17:34,860 --> 00:17:37,060
February 1st today.
So we'll just stop eating sugar.

442
00:17:37,070 --> 00:17:39,310
And I'm like, I can't possibly
do it knowing that's in the

443
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:40,610
house.
She was like, OK, I hide it and

444
00:17:40,620 --> 00:17:43,130
I was like, no, I'll get rid of
it another way.

445
00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:44,450
I ate the whole thing this
morning.

446
00:17:44,460 --> 00:17:47,490
This morning.
So no sugar February that I did

447
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:49,590
at 9:00 AM on February the
first.

448
00:17:51,030 --> 00:17:53,140
This starts now.
Alright, starts now.

449
00:17:53,150 --> 00:17:54,620
This is a real question real
quick.

450
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:56,500
Cool.
That's now.

451
00:17:56,510 --> 00:17:57,940
So, yeah.
Anyway we've been waffling on

452
00:17:57,950 --> 00:18:00,730
for. 20 minutes ago What we
doing don't know, but I did have

453
00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:03,530
someone message saying let us
know the kids can you spend a

454
00:18:03,540 --> 00:18:05,430
while?
We're both really poorly.

455
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:06,680
Yeah, yeah.
Nice one.

456
00:18:06,690 --> 00:18:08,300
Thanks.
Still a Jingle.

457
00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:10,620
Shall we get the question?
Bye.

458
00:18:13,210 --> 00:18:15,800
Welcome back.
Thanks for waiting such a long

459
00:18:15,810 --> 00:18:18,040
little Jingle.
Anyway, we're going to go

460
00:18:18,050 --> 00:18:20,840
straight into this really deep
question and a really important

461
00:18:20,850 --> 00:18:23,900
question on the lips of lots of
educators, which is simply is

462
00:18:23,910 --> 00:18:25,620
Offset actually about to be
fixed?

463
00:18:25,630 --> 00:18:28,440
Is it about to get better the
big thing we want as educators

464
00:18:28,450 --> 00:18:31,170
And I would say since the
strikes last year, big things on

465
00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:34,540
the forefront of people's minds.
The, you know, horrific case of

466
00:18:34,550 --> 00:18:39,150
Ruth Perry and her taking her
own life and the coroner's

467
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:45,470
report since inextricably
linking the Ofsted visit to her

468
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,120
school with her taking her own
life and for that's been a

469
00:18:49,130 --> 00:18:51,230
coroner's report.
I think it was a big kick up the

470
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,250
backside for people to really
take this seriously now.

471
00:18:53,260 --> 00:18:56,530
And you know, it's such a
horrific shame that it took

472
00:18:56,540 --> 00:18:59,840
something that serious for them
to take it, you know, to try and

473
00:18:59,850 --> 00:19:01,070
do.
Something the speculation out of

474
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,160
other people, you know,
obviously people always no,

475
00:19:03,170 --> 00:19:04,720
there's other stuff going on.
It wasn't that.

476
00:19:04,730 --> 00:19:06,210
Well, actually, this report now
is.

477
00:19:06,220 --> 00:19:08,410
Confirming and so exactly that.
And I think it's really

478
00:19:08,420 --> 00:19:11,430
frustrating sometimes as
teachers just in general when

479
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,090
we're not taking seriously have
people on the front line when

480
00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:16,660
we're on the frontline
delivering lessons saying ohh, I

481
00:19:16,670 --> 00:19:19,710
don't have this thing this this
is really hard for me to do my

482
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,840
job unless I have this thing or
you know head teachers across

483
00:19:22,850 --> 00:19:26,000
the land saying Ofsted's one
word judgement don't work.

484
00:19:26,110 --> 00:19:28,740
This is really stressful and
it's not helping me at all.

485
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:31,660
I think it's easy to back that
off and it's just a shame it

486
00:19:31,670 --> 00:19:34,700
took this horrible incident of
roof Perry for for it to be like

487
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:36,640
ohh is it not working?
No.

488
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:39,350
And that it took that much for
for us to be taken seriously.

489
00:19:39,390 --> 00:19:41,820
It's a shame.
So before Hayden, we we just

490
00:19:41,830 --> 00:19:44,500
crack into another committee
report because it was set up

491
00:19:44,510 --> 00:19:47,220
last year I think in response to
all of that and it's really

492
00:19:47,230 --> 00:19:49,230
promising the reports we're
going to detail in a minute.

493
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,100
But I think for all the
listeners right now, whether

494
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:55,060
their teachers or not, I want
you to try and just summarise

495
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:58,520
what is it like as a teacher and
someone, we're close with a lot

496
00:19:58,530 --> 00:20:00,640
of SLT members as well.
So people in charge of the

497
00:20:00,650 --> 00:20:05,760
school with the current way that
offset is ran, why is it a

498
00:20:05,770 --> 00:20:07,620
problem?
Why is it causing such an issue?

499
00:20:07,630 --> 00:20:08,960
Sure.
Well I will give a bit of a

500
00:20:08,970 --> 00:20:13,430
summary, but just a pre thing,
we did do a whole episode on our

501
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,500
experience of so we were offered
in not too long ago, a few

502
00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:19,020
months ago and season 2 episode
7 is is about our experience of

503
00:20:19,030 --> 00:20:20,150
Ofsted.
So if you do want even more

504
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,540
information just about how you
know what it's like to be

505
00:20:22,550 --> 00:20:24,410
Ofsted, you go back and watch
that episode.

506
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,040
It's a juicy one.
But in that episode we did talk

507
00:20:27,050 --> 00:20:29,740
about some of the issues.
And I think I think the biggest

508
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:32,060
thing for me, and it's it's
really nice because you'll see

509
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:34,210
later on that some of these
things are addressed in this, in

510
00:20:34,220 --> 00:20:36,890
this committee report.
Biggest thing for me was the

511
00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:39,290
fact that schools are judged
with one word.

512
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:41,330
I really, really, really, really
hated that.

513
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,230
So going through the office
experience, knowing that after

514
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,930
all this hard work, years of
hard work, we're talking here

515
00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:49,260
between inspections years and
years and years of hard work

516
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:52,010
culminating onto this big day or
one word.

517
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,970
Yeah, good.
Alright.

518
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:55,580
Umm, outstanding.
Ohh, great.

519
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:56,580
Brilliant.
We're sending.

520
00:20:56,590 --> 00:21:00,870
OK, requires improvement.
It's OK the the whole everything

521
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,250
about this school now is is
culminated with this, this,

522
00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:05,290
these one word or two word
judgments.

523
00:21:05,380 --> 00:21:07,470
So that's my biggest gripe with
Ofsted.

524
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,590
What about you?
Yeah, I think that's that's a

525
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,690
huge thing and that's that's one
of the biggest things to come

526
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:14,110
out of this big push is to get
rid of the one my judgments.

527
00:21:14,180 --> 00:21:16,480
I think I'm going to just expand
on what you said there about one

528
00:21:16,490 --> 00:21:18,090
more judgments.
Because for anyone involved in

529
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:22,850
Ofsted you'll know that it's a
two day, it's a two day job.

530
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,640
They come in for two days, these
inspectors and they'll talk to

531
00:21:25,650 --> 00:21:27,780
multiple leaders across the
score.

532
00:21:27,910 --> 00:21:29,500
We LED maths, we talked about
maths again.

533
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:31,600
You wanna know exactly what
happens during an Ofsted

534
00:21:31,610 --> 00:21:32,800
inspection, go and listen to
episode.

535
00:21:32,810 --> 00:21:35,320
We're not going to that detail
now, but I think what really

536
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:38,920
shocked me was when the report
came out at the end, obviously

537
00:21:38,930 --> 00:21:40,890
we got the overall judgement,
It's public now.

538
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:42,790
We've got a good judgement.
We're very happy with a good

539
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,160
judgement.
Perfect.

540
00:21:45,020 --> 00:21:49,430
But then you read the report and
although good is fine, it's,

541
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,410
it's fantastic.
It's what we're aiming for.

542
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,230
We have a really lovely score.
When you read the report, it's

543
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,340
very cut, very short, very
matter of fact, which I

544
00:21:59,350 --> 00:22:01,980
understand because you know, you
probably had another inspection.

545
00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:05,670
The car is a lot to get through.
But I felt a little bit

546
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:10,400
underwhelmed at the amount of
detail in the report because I

547
00:22:10,410 --> 00:22:13,910
think I think we did a lot of
stuff really well and I think

548
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,150
the inspector was really
impressed with a lot of stuff.

549
00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:19,300
And I would say from my point of
view, looking at a spectrum,

550
00:22:19,310 --> 00:22:22,520
because a good school is not the
same as another good school, is

551
00:22:22,530 --> 00:22:23,660
not the same as another good
school.

552
00:22:23,670 --> 00:22:26,260
There's obviously going to be a
bit of a range there as to what

553
00:22:26,270 --> 00:22:29,200
constitutes a good score.
We know from conversations and

554
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:32,100
things that he talked to us
about that we were very much on

555
00:22:32,110 --> 00:22:34,660
the cusp of an outstanding
school, that we had a lot of

556
00:22:34,670 --> 00:22:36,360
outstanding elements to what we
were doing.

557
00:22:36,530 --> 00:22:40,090
And for as maths leads in the
room with him, I know that we

558
00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:42,000
answered all of his questions
appropriately.

559
00:22:42,010 --> 00:22:45,120
And any kind of any kind of, you
know, things you wanted to find

560
00:22:45,130 --> 00:22:47,260
out if we were making sure we
had provisions for this or that

561
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:48,690
we had them in place.
And you could see.

562
00:22:48,990 --> 00:22:51,740
Yeah, he's content with all he.
Was really exactly what he saw.

563
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,450
Yeah.
And I think after the whole mass

564
00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:55,870
talk, he was very much thinking,
you know, this, this has

565
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,700
outstanding elements for sure.
Hmm.

566
00:22:57,740 --> 00:23:00,010
Not remotely reflected, I don't
think, in the report, no.

567
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,690
And I think what's really
important, what matter.

568
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:06,330
Wasn't one sentence, it was.
It was tagged onto the end of

569
00:23:06,340 --> 00:23:07,590
one and it wasn't even the
central.

570
00:23:08,340 --> 00:23:10,430
It was like there were lots of
good elements about the school,

571
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,300
particularly in maths.
That was that was all it.

572
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:14,470
Was and and.
Culminated everything we did.

573
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,610
Yes, 3 words for it to be like,
oh, we're with him for three

574
00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:20,240
hours and we saw seven different
classes and we talked about

575
00:23:20,250 --> 00:23:22,450
access and we talked about catch
up for code and we talked about

576
00:23:22,460 --> 00:23:25,890
all this stuff.
I think if you were to flip the

577
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:28,830
coin over and we had a negative
experience, I think that's

578
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,890
equally terrible, if not worse.
When I say equally, I mean it's

579
00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:35,030
equally vague, therefore worse.
Because if you've got requires

580
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,170
improvement.
For example if you were to read

581
00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:41,410
the report, it might be a bit
like, well, we had so much stuff

582
00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:43,180
that was good.
Yeah, we had so much stuff that

583
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:45,640
it was really impressed with.
It just so happened that XYZ we

584
00:23:45,650 --> 00:23:48,590
need support with now we're
labelled as a requires

585
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,920
improvement school.
So as a parent coming in why is

586
00:23:51,930 --> 00:23:53,820
improvement?
God, my kid really needs support

587
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:55,550
with Max was fine.
Wouldn't know that.

588
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,200
Yeah, Max was fine.
History was brilliant, you know

589
00:23:58,210 --> 00:24:00,070
English.
Oh, it's just a reading, you

590
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,630
know.
It's such an important thing

591
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,070
that doesn't.
Require improvement.

592
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,460
Always be going.
You know in secondary school

593
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:05,950
when you get and maybe even some
primary schools.

594
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,580
I don't know how it works, but
in secondary school you get end

595
00:24:08,590 --> 00:24:10,420
of year reports, right?
For kids, sometimes even media

596
00:24:10,430 --> 00:24:12,350
reports, and it's usually broken
down by subject.

597
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:14,560
There's different teachers.
Yeah, it'd be like getting your

598
00:24:14,570 --> 00:24:16,480
kids end of year report might be
like their GCSE year.

599
00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:18,370
Something really important,
eight levels, whatever.

600
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,710
And it's just a one page report
just goes, yeah, pretty good

601
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,570
across the board.
It's all right.

602
00:24:23,620 --> 00:24:25,230
Needs to work on the history a
bit though.

603
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,050
Yeah, and if they if they're
really bad at history, saying

604
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:32,750
all they do, they do need to get
better at what that kid is,

605
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,170
needs to get better at, it
doesn't even say.

606
00:24:36,180 --> 00:24:37,470
How are they maths?
I don't know.

607
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:38,870
It just says.
Particularly good in the other

608
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,040
subjects.
It's crazy.

609
00:24:40,050 --> 00:24:41,410
It be like that.
You won't be satisfied, would

610
00:24:41,420 --> 00:24:42,910
you?
Because that's one word for the

611
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,420
whole school.
We'd never describe as a child

612
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:46,740
by one word.
No, never.

613
00:24:46,850 --> 00:24:48,040
We wouldn't get away with it.
No.

614
00:24:48,050 --> 00:24:50,850
Absolutely did.
Yeah, greater depth, yeah, but

615
00:24:50,860 --> 00:24:52,390
that's not enough.
That's not enough.

616
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,790
No, we get it broken down for
every subject and we have to

617
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,650
write a report.
It's a statutory, you know, a

618
00:24:56,660 --> 00:24:58,830
statutory requirement.
We get standardised scorings.

619
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,170
That breaks it down even further
as well.

620
00:25:00,180 --> 00:25:02,450
Yeah.
So I I mean I think the one word

621
00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:04,650
thing is the biggest thing.
But I would also say, and this

622
00:25:04,660 --> 00:25:06,490
is again, we're gonna come on to
this when we look at the

623
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:08,670
committee report because it is
quite promising, I think the

624
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,700
report, but I still think it's
going to be some differences

625
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:13,330
between you and I about how
useful some of it will be.

626
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,290
Another big thing that a lot of
people talked about busted and

627
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:19,130
why it's such a problem at the
minute is the unexpected nature

628
00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:21,340
of it.
There is this culture in schools

629
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:24,410
if you know that you're in the
Ofsted window and when we say a

630
00:25:24,420 --> 00:25:26,860
window for anyone doesn't know.
It's not like a school gets a

631
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:28,640
two-month window and it could be
anytime.

632
00:25:28,750 --> 00:25:32,150
So we don't know like between
January and February 25 we're

633
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,800
going to no, no we don't know at
all when we're going to get

634
00:25:34,810 --> 00:25:37,230
Ofsted.
It's just offer feeling well

635
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,990
it's.
Usually been a few years.

636
00:25:39,460 --> 00:25:42,200
It's done a local school that it
did before us last time.

637
00:25:42,210 --> 00:25:43,540
So maybe the cycle is coming
round.

638
00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:46,150
Yeah.
If you're in that window, there

639
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,430
is absolutely no way of knowing
when Ofsted will come.

640
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,950
And the way Ofsted do this is
they will call your school in.

641
00:25:52,020 --> 00:25:54,470
But I think it's in the morning
time by like 2:00.

642
00:25:54,510 --> 00:25:57,330
And I remember how I had saying
it got past 2:00 each day and be

643
00:25:57,340 --> 00:25:59,530
like, OK, but it's not tomorrow.
Yeah.

644
00:25:59,540 --> 00:26:02,990
So it's on our minds so much and
we don't have anything to do

645
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,280
with that.
How do you think that would

646
00:26:05,290 --> 00:26:08,410
affect the school?
I find it a really tough because

647
00:26:08,420 --> 00:26:10,810
I think I've been totally
indoctrinated into the idea of

648
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,200
it needs to be like that so that
you get a real reflection of the

649
00:26:14,210 --> 00:26:16,370
school and that, you know, if
you give a school two months,

650
00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:19,200
there might be that they're
terrible for four years, not

651
00:26:19,210 --> 00:26:21,430
doing the right things and then
they know they got two months.

652
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:22,770
OK.
We can put all the stuff in

653
00:26:22,780 --> 00:26:25,780
place now superficially and
nothing's really embedded.

654
00:26:25,790 --> 00:26:27,790
But then the other part of me is
like, yeah, well, a good

655
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,700
inspector would know that.
A good inspector, if you give a

656
00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:32,850
score two months, a good
inspector should be able to

657
00:26:32,860 --> 00:26:34,400
really they're good at their
jobs.

658
00:26:34,410 --> 00:26:36,470
Come in and tell the difference
between 2 schools.

659
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,810
One where all these great things
have been embedded for five

660
00:26:38,820 --> 00:26:41,160
years and one where these things
have just been implemented in

661
00:26:41,170 --> 00:26:43,230
the last two months because they
realised being offended.

662
00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:46,170
I think that a good inspector
should be able to tell the

663
00:26:46,180 --> 00:26:48,110
difference.
So therefore, do we really need

664
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:52,860
to cause all of the stress by
giving schools a 24 hour window?

665
00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:53,840
Really.
Like what?

666
00:26:53,850 --> 00:26:55,400
What are the job?
Does that happen in?

667
00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:58,220
I just don't think that even two
months is enough to implement

668
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:59,560
stuff that would pass you as a
good.

669
00:26:59,570 --> 00:27:01,020
Really.
No, it's, you know, not

670
00:27:01,030 --> 00:27:02,530
properly.
Not if you're coming, if you're

671
00:27:02,540 --> 00:27:04,770
coming from nothing to them
being like, ohh, well, God,

672
00:27:04,780 --> 00:27:07,040
we're in the window.
Gosh, being free, we better do

673
00:27:07,050 --> 00:27:07,940
something.
You'll be found.

674
00:27:07,950 --> 00:27:10,490
Out there was a complaint last
year I was in two Ofsted, I

675
00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:14,190
think again following the whole
Ruth Perry incident where people

676
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,640
were fed up with you know the 24
hour window and stuff.

677
00:27:17,730 --> 00:27:19,510
You know for Christ sake, when
we when are we gonna get off

678
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:20,890
there?
Because this window is painful.

679
00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:23,910
It can last for years.
And remember their response was

680
00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:26,080
OK, yeah, fine.
We'll we'll let you know when

681
00:27:26,090 --> 00:27:27,310
it's going to happen.
Bye.

682
00:27:27,390 --> 00:27:28,740
Yeah.
As if that helps.

683
00:27:28,750 --> 00:27:30,010
And then end up being a year
window.

684
00:27:30,020 --> 00:27:31,080
Or something.
So then all the schools.

685
00:27:31,090 --> 00:27:33,190
So we, you know, we thought, our
school thought we get offered

686
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,730
for like the.
Last, we're really excited.

687
00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:37,120
I went into her teacher, I
think, and we were like, they're

688
00:27:37,130 --> 00:27:39,710
they've released this thing now
you can look it up on the DF E

689
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,190
So we looked to find out what
we're gonna get arrested by the

690
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,130
end of 2025.
And this was this was 2023, by

691
00:27:45,140 --> 00:27:46,900
the way.
And we were like, oh, we knew

692
00:27:46,910 --> 00:27:50,420
that, Oh yeah, if we got last
offset in 2019, yeah, 2018

693
00:27:50,430 --> 00:27:52,590
maybe.
So we knew that that's not

694
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:53,310
remote.
OK.

695
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,730
Thank you.
Yeah ohh good.

696
00:27:54,740 --> 00:27:57,620
We we can continue being
stressed until 2025 now at

697
00:27:57,630 --> 00:28:00,140
least.
But there have been some

698
00:28:00,150 --> 00:28:01,490
suggestions.
Again, we'll come on to them

699
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:04,400
later on, but I just think to
kind of summarise from a

700
00:28:04,410 --> 00:28:08,100
teacher's point of view, the one
word system, it's not very

701
00:28:08,110 --> 00:28:11,480
helpful.
I don't think that the if you

702
00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:13,960
walk into school, ask a teacher
about the culture of waiting for

703
00:28:13,970 --> 00:28:16,100
the call.
If you said to a teacher what is

704
00:28:16,190 --> 00:28:19,730
the call in a school, they will
absolutely know what you're

705
00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:21,630
talking about.
Well, when we had the call, I

706
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,240
remember our office staff came.
Round, yeah, because I was on

707
00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:25,500
paternity.
Yeah, you were.

708
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:26,390
Yeah.
I was in the middle of an

709
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,740
English lesson and she just
poked her head and just said

710
00:28:29,020 --> 00:28:31,470
we've had the call, Yeah, yeah.
And then walked off on and I

711
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,820
licked.
My heart immediately sank

712
00:28:32,830 --> 00:28:34,320
because in the middle of
teaching a lesson and I'm

713
00:28:34,330 --> 00:28:35,440
thinking.
No one's.

714
00:28:35,450 --> 00:28:37,430
Going what?
Yeah.

715
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:37,860
Sorry.
Yeah.

716
00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:40,970
Ohh, it's the bug man here for
the for the kids to.

717
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,610
See that enrichment activity
that we haven't got?

718
00:28:46,770 --> 00:28:50,180
No.
So yeah, I mean, I think it's

719
00:28:50,190 --> 00:28:52,370
completely broken.
And I I do think that it's

720
00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:55,400
important that we just get
across.

721
00:28:55,690 --> 00:28:58,120
This has to happen.
This has to happen more about to

722
00:28:58,130 --> 00:28:59,880
go through right now, these
changes.

723
00:28:59,890 --> 00:29:03,980
Something needs to change.
My biggest gripe and I'm

724
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:05,310
interested to see what you
think.

725
00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:10,340
I really struggle to jump on
board with the people who are on

726
00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:12,140
our side of this.
Ofsted needs to change.

727
00:29:12,190 --> 00:29:14,420
There are a lot of people who've
gone as far as to say Ofsted

728
00:29:14,430 --> 00:29:17,300
should be abolished.
You know, we shouldn't have

729
00:29:17,310 --> 00:29:19,040
that.
We need trust as a profession.

730
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:22,340
Personally, I do not agree with
that.

731
00:29:22,390 --> 00:29:26,720
I think it's vital, particularly
when it comes to safeguarding of

732
00:29:26,730 --> 00:29:30,380
children, that there is an
external regulator holding us to

733
00:29:30,390 --> 00:29:32,830
the highest of standards, even
in maths and English.

734
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,440
And like, I still think we need
to be held to really high

735
00:29:35,450 --> 00:29:37,900
standards.
I think the way it's happening

736
00:29:37,910 --> 00:29:41,210
is wrong and needs needs reform.
Where do you stand with those

737
00:29:41,220 --> 00:29:44,060
people who say you know what,
Ofsted just bin it completely.

738
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:46,060
I struggle with it.
I I can see where they're coming

739
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:47,300
from, but I struggle with how
that would.

740
00:29:47,310 --> 00:29:48,500
Work.
I'd like to think because I

741
00:29:48,510 --> 00:29:49,880
actually have the same opinion
as you there.

742
00:29:49,890 --> 00:29:51,360
I don't think we should get rid
of it really.

743
00:29:51,370 --> 00:29:54,880
But I'd like to think that those
people probably mean abolish it

744
00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:57,700
and replace it with with with a
better trust based system.

745
00:29:57,710 --> 00:29:58,810
Sure, I'd hope so.
I don't.

746
00:29:58,820 --> 00:29:59,800
I don't.
I don't know.

747
00:29:59,810 --> 00:30:01,930
I reckon if we had someone with
that opinion, I reckon within

748
00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:04,620
two minutes of talking to them,
they probably probably think,

749
00:30:04,690 --> 00:30:07,340
yeah, I don't completely want
schools to have no like no

750
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:09,310
accountability whatsoever.
I just don't think the current

751
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,100
system.
There's a lot of people who say

752
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:12,990
something like, you know,
accountability should just be

753
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,300
into school between schools,
right?

754
00:30:15,370 --> 00:30:18,490
You know certain schools that
are performing well, you know

755
00:30:18,530 --> 00:30:20,640
completely and it's at the whim
then, isn't it, of you know,

756
00:30:20,650 --> 00:30:22,110
certain members in positions of
power?

757
00:30:22,180 --> 00:30:24,120
No, it doesn't work because.
Because I know about writing

758
00:30:24,130 --> 00:30:26,440
moderations, sure.
You know, I think we we could,

759
00:30:26,670 --> 00:30:29,720
we could we could talk about
English and writing moderation

760
00:30:29,730 --> 00:30:31,740
in the future properly.
But just, you know, very, very

761
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:35,600
quick analogy, writing
moderations are fast moderation

762
00:30:35,910 --> 00:30:37,260
again.
So maybe you're not in teaching

763
00:30:37,270 --> 00:30:39,650
or you're just not in a year
that does writing moderations.

764
00:30:39,660 --> 00:30:42,760
But writing moderation is where
teachers from different schools

765
00:30:42,770 --> 00:30:44,700
get together and literally
moderate.

766
00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:47,280
Look at the children's writing
to make sure that the gradings

767
00:30:47,290 --> 00:30:49,280
are.
Because his teacher assessed.

768
00:30:49,290 --> 00:30:50,830
Because it's teacher.
Yeah, we don't have a writing

769
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,660
test, unlike with the, you know,
the rest of the Sats, maths and

770
00:30:54,670 --> 00:30:58,280
reading, GPS, that stuff that
that's all, that's all tested.

771
00:30:59,150 --> 00:31:02,830
But writing isn't tested, it's
assessed by teachers.

772
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:05,120
So yeah, we get together and we
look at it, but I've been to

773
00:31:05,130 --> 00:31:08,210
multiple moderations over my
nine year career and they are

774
00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:09,580
all a joke.
They are a joke.

775
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:11,490
I'm not afraid to say it.
They're just the complete joke.

776
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:14,020
They're fast because they'll be
people on the table next to you

777
00:31:14,090 --> 00:31:16,540
who have just who have just
agreed maybe just two teachers

778
00:31:16,550 --> 00:31:17,830
like that.
Maybe their mates doesn't know

779
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,900
whatever, but they just both
looked their writing.

780
00:31:20,150 --> 00:31:22,080
Maybe it's slightly below the
standard it should be, but they

781
00:31:22,090 --> 00:31:24,660
both think that's OK and they
go, yeah, yours is fine, Mine

782
00:31:24,670 --> 00:31:25,890
fine.
Yeah, yours is fine as well,

783
00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:26,640
mate.
Well done.

784
00:31:26,650 --> 00:31:28,340
All yours.
Like you got 100% expected.

785
00:31:28,350 --> 00:31:30,050
Well done.
And then you're on a table with

786
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:32,340
with, like, the county moderator
who's really strict.

787
00:31:32,350 --> 00:31:33,740
Sure.
Knocking all your books down.

788
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:35,030
No, they're not.
They're not there yet.

789
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,020
They're not.
Yet they're missing comma sorry

790
00:31:37,030 --> 00:31:37,670
in that one.
Place.

791
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:40,260
Have they got any use of
semicolons to join two related

792
00:31:40,270 --> 00:31:41,840
clauses?
Cause I can't really see any.

793
00:31:41,950 --> 00:31:43,740
Well, unless they got
everything, they can't be

794
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:47,100
expected so.
I can't wait to the episode, but

795
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:49,800
yeah, the the the gist is I
think it's really important to

796
00:31:49,810 --> 00:31:53,530
have a extremely well trained
body holding us to higher

797
00:31:53,610 --> 00:31:56,810
accountability that is you know,
has our well-being in mind as.

798
00:31:56,820 --> 00:31:58,020
Well, that's my last point
actually.

799
00:31:58,030 --> 00:31:59,930
Really quick.
We're gonna talk about what one

800
00:31:59,940 --> 00:32:03,880
last great with Ofsted is pretty
much that which is not

801
00:32:03,890 --> 00:32:06,600
everyone's that well trained or
or specialised in certain areas.

802
00:32:06,610 --> 00:32:09,510
I know that we we've spoken to
people in the past who have been

803
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,200
Ofsted who have said, yeah, we
had someone coming in looking at

804
00:32:12,330 --> 00:32:15,100
ex subject and they had
absolutely no expertise or

805
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:16,940
knowledge of that subject
because they're actually the

806
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:19,660
person for PE or maths and
they're not the specialist for

807
00:32:19,670 --> 00:32:20,720
this one.
And they didn't really know

808
00:32:20,730 --> 00:32:22,790
anything we were talking about.
And then they had to give us all

809
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,980
a judgement based on it because
we were deep dived in this

810
00:32:24,990 --> 00:32:26,460
subject.
And it becomes malleable then,

811
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:27,830
based on how well the person
talks you.

812
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:28,840
Through.
Yeah, basically.

813
00:32:28,850 --> 00:32:31,130
And it's just that just, it's
like, no, no, no, hang on.

814
00:32:31,140 --> 00:32:32,940
That's what we need.
We need better trained staff.

815
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:34,990
And I know that they were.
It's really interesting, isn't

816
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,130
it?
We read it earlier, a lot of

817
00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:37,970
this stuff is addressed.
So should we jump into.

818
00:32:38,060 --> 00:32:40,950
Yeah, into the Commission.
So just as a background, whilst

819
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,740
Hayden gets up our notes on what
the actual committee are

820
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:46,170
suggesting, this committee was
set up last year.

821
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:48,300
It's again, it's another one of
those cross party committees.

822
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:49,950
So you have MP's from different
parties.

823
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,610
This is not party political
right now.

824
00:32:51,670 --> 00:32:54,090
This is actually some really
good working government.

825
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:55,910
Got some of the best working
government goes on in these

826
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,680
committee meetings.
You might see clips of them

827
00:32:57,690 --> 00:33:00,590
online where they question
people and they get them in some

828
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,470
fantastic work, but really good
MPs.

829
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,050
I think it's important to say
that not all MPs just these

830
00:33:05,060 --> 00:33:07,600
people who just sleazy got
sleaze by and take money and

831
00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:12,330
stuff and all Tories we're
getting ohh don't Aiden.

832
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:14,700
But you know there there's some
really good work here and it's

833
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:16,370
nice to read because it's
really, it's really part of

834
00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:18,770
that, it's it's not there's no
agenda here.

835
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,340
And and they, these committees
put things forward to the

836
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:24,820
government and the government
reply and Ofsted as well you

837
00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:26,820
reply to this.
So this is very much for the

838
00:33:26,830 --> 00:33:29,440
Department for Education and the
government and for Ofsted.

839
00:33:29,530 --> 00:33:32,200
And what's really promising is
Ofsted have already said they

840
00:33:32,210 --> 00:33:34,140
look forward to reading these
reports in full.

841
00:33:34,150 --> 00:33:36,500
Yeah, they've been quite and
they will respond to everything

842
00:33:36,510 --> 00:33:39,100
because sometimes we've seen
before last week when we talk

843
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:41,100
all the week before we talked
about workload reduction.

844
00:33:41,150 --> 00:33:43,370
The government kind of cherry
picked what they responded to

845
00:33:43,410 --> 00:33:44,680
and didn't respond to other
stuff.

846
00:33:44,730 --> 00:33:47,000
Offset has said we will respond.
To think about last year as

847
00:33:47,010 --> 00:33:49,500
well, you know when, when these
are initial initially put out by

848
00:33:49,510 --> 00:33:51,490
the unions.
Remember we, I think we were in

849
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:52,980
the zoom call of the.
Union Yeah, yeah, yeah.

850
00:33:52,990 --> 00:33:55,150
Yeah, And and the government
were like most of that.

851
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:56,410
No, we're not.
It worked.

852
00:33:56,420 --> 00:33:57,780
It was well-being reduction as
well.

853
00:33:57,790 --> 00:33:59,280
Yeah, they were not.
So they're a bit more

854
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:00,440
progressive now.
I guess they're.

855
00:34:00,450 --> 00:34:02,990
Realising but it was, it was.
It was Ofsted who said they

856
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,850
replied.
Right of course so So the DfE

857
00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:08,760
will reply to as and when.
But I do get this impression and

858
00:34:08,770 --> 00:34:10,699
I'm gonna hold out hope and I
don't like to judge people

859
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:13,580
before they've done the job that
it does seem like he's taking

860
00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:15,350
this seriously offline.
So so.

861
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,699
Let's old Martin Oliver welcome.
Welcome to Ofsted.

862
00:34:19,830 --> 00:34:23,469
So yeah, DF E and Ofsted should.
That's how this starts from the

863
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,710
committee and it's just kind of
put into bullet points.

864
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:26,630
We're going to go through the
main.

865
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:30,179
Points going straight in with
the yeah, first one is just one.

866
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:32,920
We won't talk too much about it,
but it's just they're so

867
00:34:32,929 --> 00:34:34,679
different.
And Ofsted should work together

868
00:34:34,690 --> 00:34:37,880
as a priority to develop an
alternative to single phrase

869
00:34:37,889 --> 00:34:39,840
judgments.
Get rid of single phrase

870
00:34:39,850 --> 00:34:42,880
judgments that better capture
the complex nature of a school's

871
00:34:42,889 --> 00:34:44,120
performance.
Yeah, I mean, we've.

872
00:34:44,350 --> 00:34:46,650
We've kind of gone through
already I think that's it's

873
00:34:46,659 --> 00:34:50,090
almost I don't understand how
someone and reply to that and

874
00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:52,250
not agree with it.
Yeah because I've I've not seen

875
00:34:52,260 --> 00:34:56,510
yet from anyone and actual you
know a good defence of a one

876
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:57,310
word judgement.
Yeah.

877
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,100
I've seen people be like
judgments are important.

878
00:34:59,110 --> 00:35:01,340
It's like, yeah, called it not
not the point we're making.

879
00:35:01,350 --> 00:35:04,690
Yeah, Yeah, The point is 1.
Where judgments.

880
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,390
Are mad to Yeah, they're the
worst version of it.

881
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,650
So we could have any.
Any judgement will be better

882
00:35:10,660 --> 00:35:11,910
than that.
Basically.

883
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,010
I don't know what could replace
it.

884
00:35:13,020 --> 00:35:15,110
You have any ideas?
I I really like the idea.

885
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:20,180
I've always liked this idea of
of getting rid of any actual

886
00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:23,480
like grading.
Sure, in terms of like the set

887
00:35:23,490 --> 00:35:25,360
words.
Sure set numbers or whatever it

888
00:35:25,370 --> 00:35:29,010
is and just responding to the
school with with an action plan,

889
00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:31,440
like a combined action plan.
This is what we think the school

890
00:35:31,450 --> 00:35:32,950
can work on.
This is what we want to see

891
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,050
happen.
Here's some priorities.

892
00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:35,420
Here's some things we're gonna
help you with.

893
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:37,520
Because then the idea you know a
school that requires more

894
00:35:37,530 --> 00:35:40,440
improvement might just have more
in that section of this is what

895
00:35:40,450 --> 00:35:42,320
we're going to intervene with
and actually help the schools

896
00:35:42,330 --> 00:35:44,190
because we're offered and we
drive standards up.

897
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,080
You know, supposed to get
involved, right?

898
00:35:46,970 --> 00:35:49,340
Rather than your schools rubbish
or your schools.

899
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,260
Well done.
I think it needs to be.

900
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:54,010
Here's a detailed action plan.
Put it into school improvement

901
00:35:54,020 --> 00:35:55,450
plan.
We're going to monitor it over

902
00:35:55,460 --> 00:35:56,630
the next three years and help
you.

903
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,170
Would you include good points in
that as well then?

904
00:35:59,220 --> 00:36:01,350
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
I think it needs to be a proper

905
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,810
report.
Like here are loads of really

906
00:36:04,820 --> 00:36:07,100
good things about your school
where we don't need to work on

907
00:36:07,110 --> 00:36:08,520
these.
Let's just leave that alone.

908
00:36:08,530 --> 00:36:11,170
So do you think it's a case of
then like changing the culture

909
00:36:11,180 --> 00:36:14,210
in terms of it's very, very
normal for teachers and

910
00:36:14,220 --> 00:36:16,490
obviously parents even more so
who have less of an idea.

911
00:36:16,620 --> 00:36:18,600
Parents go off, you know,
catchment areas.

912
00:36:18,610 --> 00:36:19,630
Ohh, I'm in a good catchment
area.

913
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:22,300
Been outstanding catchment area,
that's that's you know that's

914
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:23,740
the facade they go to.
That's it.

915
00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:26,320
Which I understand why they're
not experts in education but

916
00:36:26,330 --> 00:36:29,030
even teachers will be like, ohh,
have you worked in an

917
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:30,660
outstanding school before?
Yeah, I've worked in a good

918
00:36:30,670 --> 00:36:31,300
school.
Actually.

919
00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:32,700
I was in a requires improvement
school.

920
00:36:32,830 --> 00:36:35,680
It's going to take a lot for us
to step away from that because

921
00:36:35,730 --> 00:36:38,040
what would it be replaced with?
You know what would it be

922
00:36:38,050 --> 00:36:39,760
replaced with?
Just Ohh.

923
00:36:39,770 --> 00:36:42,500
Yeah, I work.
In a school, Yeah, I think so.

924
00:36:42,570 --> 00:36:44,250
Genuinely.
I think people's then people's

925
00:36:44,260 --> 00:36:45,470
real opinions will come out.
Sure.

926
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,890
When you when you ask where have
you worked a really lovely

927
00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:49,560
school before?
They were so good at this, this

928
00:36:49,570 --> 00:36:50,980
and this, loved working that
school.

929
00:36:51,650 --> 00:36:54,350
It's true because we've had it
before where you might say ohh

930
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,120
yeah, I've worked in an
outstanding school.

931
00:36:56,170 --> 00:36:58,580
But everything you want to say
about it from a point of view as

932
00:36:58,590 --> 00:37:01,580
a as a worker has been negative.
And you might say, oh, what's in

933
00:37:01,590 --> 00:37:03,280
a good school?
And it was unbelievable.

934
00:37:03,330 --> 00:37:04,510
Yeah.
Or what's in it requires

935
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,530
improvement school.
And Oh my gosh, the work we did

936
00:37:06,540 --> 00:37:08,500
with that those kids, it was
their best time of my.

937
00:37:08,510 --> 00:37:10,510
Life because quite often
requires improvement.

938
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,270
Schools have lots of
intervention put in place and

939
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,000
they can end up becoming amazing
schools because they required

940
00:37:15,010 --> 00:37:16,980
improvement at some point in the
past.

941
00:37:16,990 --> 00:37:19,600
They're just still labelled.
As that so that flip I think

942
00:37:19,610 --> 00:37:22,040
that move away from all my
judgments were absolutely

943
00:37:22,050 --> 00:37:24,300
hopefully over time it'll be
it'll take a bit of time but

944
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:27,780
we'll flip that culture of
actually it's just an individual

945
00:37:27,790 --> 00:37:31,920
score it's not a it's not a good
school it's not a requires

946
00:37:31,930 --> 00:37:35,140
improvement school it's a school
which is working really hard on

947
00:37:35,150 --> 00:37:37,120
this stuff and does this really.
Well, and if parents find it

948
00:37:37,130 --> 00:37:39,000
tricky with the whole like,
because they do, you know,

949
00:37:39,010 --> 00:37:41,620
people do like quickly absorbing
information like you wanted to

950
00:37:41,630 --> 00:37:43,730
see for some reason stuff.
Yeah, Then I think they should

951
00:37:43,740 --> 00:37:45,680
just always be as part of this
process.

952
00:37:45,690 --> 00:37:47,690
Yeah, you've got this big
detailed plan with the school

953
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:49,760
that could be pages and pages.
And pages one word.

954
00:37:50,810 --> 00:37:53,360
No, Just like a nice bullet
point of one page summary, you

955
00:37:53,370 --> 00:37:56,340
know, like here, here are some
of the really nice things we saw

956
00:37:56,350 --> 00:37:58,140
about this school from upstairs
point of view.

957
00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:59,960
Here are some things the school
is working on.

958
00:38:00,530 --> 00:38:01,940
Parents, make of that what you
will.

959
00:38:01,950 --> 00:38:03,220
This is interesting.
I'm going to jump on this.

960
00:38:03,230 --> 00:38:06,220
Then before we move on.
If they're if they're like

961
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:07,740
saying let's get rid of one more
judgement.

962
00:38:07,750 --> 00:38:10,850
So let's dive a bit deeper.
Would would you then have no

963
00:38:10,860 --> 00:38:15,600
distinction between a school
that is, you know, outstanding?

964
00:38:15,610 --> 00:38:18,170
Good, fine, OK.
Would you still have a

965
00:38:18,180 --> 00:38:21,370
distinction when it comes to Oh
dear, that's a safeguarding

966
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,940
issue.
This is really serious that this

967
00:38:23,950 --> 00:38:27,820
school needs us to step in and
and and shut something down or

968
00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:30,620
or you know that OK, that needs
to change immediately like

969
00:38:30,690 --> 00:38:33,790
without that one word judgement.
Do you think it's still

970
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,760
important though, because to
just kind of keep?

971
00:38:35,770 --> 00:38:38,680
That line of OK, well, but if if
you're below this line, then

972
00:38:38,690 --> 00:38:41,440
that's a real problem, I think.
Sort of.

973
00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:45,900
I like the idea of actually just
removing safeguarding from

974
00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:47,470
teaching and learning completely
now.

975
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:49,930
So it's like, I think
safeguarding should almost still

976
00:38:49,940 --> 00:38:53,350
be reported very, very, very
strictly and harshly, not on by

977
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,170
itself.
It kind of like it is, right?

978
00:38:55,180 --> 00:38:57,670
Now, yeah, it is, I think.
You know, it almost needs to be

979
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,150
a separate thing all the time.
It can't just be bumped into one

980
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,800
of the bullet points of
safeguarding pretty good.

981
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,420
I think it needs to be its own
report every single time.

982
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,270
This is the safeguarding
procedures of the school.

983
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,890
Here are the policies the school
has in place.

984
00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:09,810
Here's what they do really well.
Here's what we recommend.

985
00:39:09,820 --> 00:39:11,930
They could do even better in the
school for safeguarding.

986
00:39:11,970 --> 00:39:14,150
And that should always be a
thing because it is just so

987
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,870
important, so, so important.
But I I feel bad for schools

988
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,590
where perhaps the the head
teacher maybe is in charge of

989
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,960
safeguarding quite usually are
or the deputy head or someone

990
00:39:24,970 --> 00:39:28,160
high up and perhaps that that
element of the school's not very

991
00:39:28,170 --> 00:39:30,680
good.
But the the, the, the other 25

992
00:39:30,690 --> 00:39:34,400
stars and 25 TA and support
staff, they've all been working

993
00:39:34,410 --> 00:39:37,870
extremely hard and the children
get an incredible education and

994
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,560
the school is not requires
improvement.

995
00:39:39,570 --> 00:39:41,990
Because maybe it's just the way
you record something is quite

996
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,750
wrong.
Yeah, I feel bad.

997
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:44,480
Safe.
Yeah.

998
00:39:44,490 --> 00:39:47,200
So I think get rid of that one
word judgement, but have a

999
00:39:47,210 --> 00:39:49,630
report that makes it very clear
safeguarding is a real issue in

1000
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:50,960
this school.
There's a problem with

1001
00:39:50,970 --> 00:39:52,820
safeguarding, but the teaching
and learning is actually

1002
00:39:52,830 --> 00:39:55,220
fantastic and working on
improving the safeguarding, but

1003
00:39:55,230 --> 00:39:57,040
they get a good.
Education, because safeguarding

1004
00:39:57,050 --> 00:39:59,400
is, is different to English and
maths.

1005
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,570
We're working on English and
maths.

1006
00:40:00,580 --> 00:40:03,460
I'd be like, OK, cool, we're
working on safeguarding.

1007
00:40:03,470 --> 00:40:06,280
I'd be like, what do you mean?
Because that needs to be

1008
00:40:06,290 --> 00:40:09,060
completely robust.
So you're right, if it's

1009
00:40:09,070 --> 00:40:13,280
separate, it's almost like it's
it's like a very specific thing

1010
00:40:13,410 --> 00:40:16,520
which is almost it's irrelevant
to how well their mass progress

1011
00:40:16,530 --> 00:40:18,430
is.
Are they safe, these children,

1012
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,370
and is there things in place to
make sure they remain safe?

1013
00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:23,820
Yes or no?
If the answer is no, of course.

1014
00:40:23,910 --> 00:40:25,520
Stop.
We're gonna fix this right now.

1015
00:40:25,530 --> 00:40:27,790
This school has this problem.
Yeah, that's OK to say.

1016
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,950
It could still be stressful.
Sometimes things are stressful.

1017
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,530
But you do it with training,
Yeah, you do it with compassion

1018
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,440
and you do it in a way that's
helpful for the school because

1019
00:40:35,450 --> 00:40:37,590
at the end of the day, the only
thing you really should care

1020
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,660
about is the safety of children,
not the, you know, there's no

1021
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:44,610
point making someone feel like
crap constantly or a whole

1022
00:40:44,620 --> 00:40:48,530
school have this culture of
worry, be that help step in and

1023
00:40:48,540 --> 00:40:50,520
say, OK, look, if this thing,
you know, the way you're

1024
00:40:50,530 --> 00:40:53,310
recording these incidents, isn't
quite up to scratch because of

1025
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,970
XYZ, here's the training you
need immediately.

1026
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:57,730
Off you go.
We'll come back in a few weeks

1027
00:40:57,740 --> 00:40:59,190
and we'll see if it's been
implemented.

1028
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:03,080
That, to me is OK.
Whereas that kind of idea with

1029
00:41:03,170 --> 00:41:04,480
all your masks could be a bit
better.

1030
00:41:04,490 --> 00:41:05,980
You should be doing
interventions.

1031
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:07,860
We're gonna come back in two
months and check.

1032
00:41:07,950 --> 00:41:10,580
No, let them embed it.
Yeah, give them the support.

1033
00:41:10,590 --> 00:41:11,740
Let them have some time to do
it.

1034
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:13,460
And it kind of makes him the
next point, Hayden.

1035
00:41:13,590 --> 00:41:14,500
Yeah.
No, you go for that.

1036
00:41:14,540 --> 00:41:15,860
OK.
So.

1037
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:18,360
This is interesting as well.
Another thing the committee have

1038
00:41:18,370 --> 00:41:21,930
said to reduce the frequency of
inspections.

1039
00:41:21,940 --> 00:41:23,720
Yeah.
Now I'm not sure where I stand

1040
00:41:23,730 --> 00:41:26,430
with this because I know of some
schools who've been ages about

1041
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,530
an inspection.
But this is interesting.

1042
00:41:28,620 --> 00:41:31,370
Approximately 5 to 6 years for a
good and outstanding school.

1043
00:41:31,540 --> 00:41:34,730
Yeah, approximately 3 to 4 years
for a school that requires

1044
00:41:34,740 --> 00:41:36,490
improvement or inadequate.
That's something that's really

1045
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:39,170
interesting to me.
Three years for requires

1046
00:41:39,180 --> 00:41:42,130
improvement school rather than
an immediate inspection.

1047
00:41:42,140 --> 00:41:44,410
Check, check, check.
Do you think that's going to be

1048
00:41:44,420 --> 00:41:45,610
a?
Benefit I don't think.

1049
00:41:45,620 --> 00:41:47,010
I think this is a terrible
point.

1050
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,250
I actually really really really
disagree with this.

1051
00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:53,190
I think in the current system
this is desirable.

1052
00:41:53,460 --> 00:41:55,450
OK, but if the idea is we fix
Ofsted.

1053
00:41:55,530 --> 00:41:56,450
Right.
Right.

1054
00:41:56,460 --> 00:41:59,300
I think if we fix Ofsted and
make it a collaborative

1055
00:41:59,310 --> 00:42:01,430
experience that doesn't have
these one gradings and actually

1056
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,090
it's not something to be
horribly terrified of, right?

1057
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,910
Because it's collaborative and
actually helps the schools,

1058
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,390
because it doesn't currently
help any schools and I think if

1059
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,360
that's the case then I think
they should be more frequently.

1060
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,540
Right.
And and and my analogy for this,

1061
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:17,100
I was thinking about it earlier
is I we've both worked in

1062
00:42:17,110 --> 00:42:22,420
schools where we've where we've
had very official like teacher

1063
00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:25,800
observations like really
official set like three or four

1064
00:42:25,810 --> 00:42:28,550
times in the year and that's it.
You're left alone in between.

1065
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,050
They they monitor between the
gradings.

1066
00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:32,780
We've both worked in that school
and we've also both worked in

1067
00:42:32,790 --> 00:42:34,980
school.
A school where it's the opposite

1068
00:42:34,990 --> 00:42:37,970
culture of it's just dropping
every day or every other day or

1069
00:42:37,980 --> 00:42:39,890
every few days every every week
or so, Just whenever.

1070
00:42:39,970 --> 00:42:42,670
We have a culture of not really
not really many formal

1071
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,900
observations at all, but lots of
just drop in and just checking

1072
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:49,480
in and mini bits of feedback and
it might just and it's always

1073
00:42:49,490 --> 00:42:51,280
presented quite nicely.
Maybe it's just a whole school

1074
00:42:51,290 --> 00:42:53,110
e-mail ohh round the school
Today I noticed a lot of you

1075
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,860
doing this.
Maybe we could try this approach

1076
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:56,680
instead.
No one feels really personally

1077
00:42:56,690 --> 00:42:59,100
attacked.
I like that more.

1078
00:42:59,310 --> 00:43:02,240
I found the harsh like we're
going to come in at set times

1079
00:43:02,250 --> 00:43:04,580
and assess the progress between
your observations.

1080
00:43:04,590 --> 00:43:08,220
I found that horrible as an
experience for me as a teacher,

1081
00:43:08,690 --> 00:43:10,970
regardless of the outcomes.
Didn't like it.

1082
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:14,910
So I just think, I think if
Ofsted was done right and it was

1083
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,200
the right culture of we're
actually quite friendly.

1084
00:43:17,530 --> 00:43:18,670
That's a really.
Good point then.

1085
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,640
Yeah, come in, come in more
often and not as long.

1086
00:43:21,650 --> 00:43:24,200
Come in, come in for half a day.
Have a little walk around the

1087
00:43:24,210 --> 00:43:26,800
school, check out a couple of
the things you notice six months

1088
00:43:26,810 --> 00:43:29,080
ago or a year ago and just, you
know, see how it's going.

1089
00:43:29,090 --> 00:43:31,520
Because you have very specific
next steps in a in this kind of

1090
00:43:31,530 --> 00:43:33,050
report we're talking.
About you might just come in

1091
00:43:33,060 --> 00:43:35,350
because last time he came in and
the English curriculum, they

1092
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,010
were just starting to develop it
and they said they were starting

1093
00:43:38,020 --> 00:43:39,520
to develop it.
So you didn't put in your

1094
00:43:39,530 --> 00:43:40,960
report.
It's an inadequate school now.

1095
00:43:40,970 --> 00:43:42,690
Your English is rubbish.
You just went, you put down in

1096
00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:44,140
the action report.
So we're gonna come back.

1097
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,420
English was developing.
We couldn't really comment on it

1098
00:43:46,430 --> 00:43:48,540
too much.
We can see the need for

1099
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:50,030
improvement there.
We're looking forward to see

1100
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,950
what the school does.
Come back in six months.

1101
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,180
How's English going?
Do you need support?

1102
00:43:54,190 --> 00:43:55,720
Does the school need help?
Is is, you know?

1103
00:43:55,730 --> 00:43:58,320
Do we need to get more involved?
In another six months when it's

1104
00:43:58,330 --> 00:44:00,410
developed even more, don't
expect it all done within 6.

1105
00:44:00,420 --> 00:44:02,600
Months have one inspector that's
kind of like, you know, you get

1106
00:44:02,610 --> 00:44:04,470
used to the staff get used to.
It's not just a different

1107
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,980
inspector every time.
Yeah, you know, I'll pull old

1108
00:44:06,990 --> 00:44:11,540
pals coming back.
Yeah, yeah, full going back.

1109
00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:13,080
Let's show him what we've done
with English.

1110
00:44:13,170 --> 00:44:14,430
Yeah.
And if you're nervous about it,

1111
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:15,540
you haven't done anything with
English.

1112
00:44:15,550 --> 00:44:17,500
They're doing their job properly
now because then they hopefully

1113
00:44:17,510 --> 00:44:18,820
come in and hold you
accountable.

1114
00:44:18,830 --> 00:44:20,100
This is it you've had.
This is it.

1115
00:44:20,110 --> 00:44:22,020
I think we need to not be scared
of accountability.

1116
00:44:22,030 --> 00:44:25,420
I think the the big thing is a
lot of people as teaching as

1117
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:27,670
professions don't need
accountability to be doing a

1118
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,520
really good job.
That's true.

1119
00:44:29,590 --> 00:44:31,760
However, do you think that it
would be sensible for a

1120
00:44:31,770 --> 00:44:33,580
government to just take that
accountability away in that

1121
00:44:33,590 --> 00:44:34,820
case?
Of course not.

1122
00:44:34,830 --> 00:44:37,140
It just has to be done in a
certain way.

1123
00:44:37,210 --> 00:44:39,740
It's a really good point you
made there because I absolutely

1124
00:44:39,810 --> 00:44:42,940
much prefer every single day
being dropped in on just walked

1125
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:45,550
through with a with who?
Yes, the SLT.

1126
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,450
But they're a colleague and we
can have a discussion with

1127
00:44:47,460 --> 00:44:50,350
things and I feel like they, you
know, they know the children

1128
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,250
better, they know you better.
It's a much better experience.

1129
00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:56,770
So frequency is linked with how
you feel about who's coming,

1130
00:44:56,780 --> 00:44:58,040
isn't it?
So yeah, you're right, it

1131
00:44:58,050 --> 00:44:59,250
actually gets fixed.
Cool.

1132
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,670
I actually have a really sorry,
really good example of this

1133
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,770
happening yesterday where I was
held accountable to something

1134
00:45:03,780 --> 00:45:05,630
but in a really nice way and it
made sense and it was

1135
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,170
supportive, so.
Don't wear your blue shirt

1136
00:45:08,180 --> 00:45:09,350
again.
I had.

1137
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,630
I had two two children.
We're in the shed area with with

1138
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,570
a tea yesterday doing catching
up on a reading test because

1139
00:45:15,580 --> 00:45:17,520
they missed it the worst thing
ever isn't it When you missed

1140
00:45:17,530 --> 00:45:19,830
the test you sat on your own and
and our deputy head was just

1141
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,270
walking around like he does most
of the time and just popped his

1142
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,810
head in and he just said it.
He still right out here because

1143
00:45:24,820 --> 00:45:27,500
he remembered that there was a
bit of a an issue with them like

1144
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:29,830
a few months ago like a
friendship thing and I'd

1145
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,390
forgotten about that and it was
it was just nice.

1146
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:33,950
He didn't do it remotely in a
harsh way.

1147
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,650
He was like just checking in
just make sure that everything

1148
00:45:35,660 --> 00:45:37,650
is rightly sat near each other
and normal.

1149
00:45:37,660 --> 00:45:38,710
You know they had a bit of a
thing.

1150
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:39,750
Sure.
I was like Oh yeah, I forgot

1151
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:40,490
about that.
It's OK.

1152
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:42,740
I've got an adult there and I'm
gonna put them a bit further

1153
00:45:42,750 --> 00:45:44,880
apart.
And it was just nice, yeah.

1154
00:45:45,180 --> 00:45:47,240
He was doing his job properly.
He was holding me accountable to

1155
00:45:47,250 --> 00:45:49,140
make sure I wasn't forgetting
about that thing.

1156
00:45:49,330 --> 00:45:51,250
And doesn't reflect well on on
that person.

1157
00:45:51,260 --> 00:45:53,660
Yeah, my friends well on him,
and it didn't make me feel bad

1158
00:45:53,730 --> 00:45:56,310
whatsoever, even though I could
have been doing something like

1159
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,140
it could have been.
Technically it might be a bit of

1160
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:59,940
a.
Shows the way you do.

1161
00:45:59,950 --> 00:46:01,480
Such important.
If he popped in what they're

1162
00:46:01,490 --> 00:46:03,390
doing, yeah.
And in the middle of teaching,

1163
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,590
that happens.
People go, excuse me, come over

1164
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,370
here, they're doing that.
There's someone to sleep over

1165
00:46:08,380 --> 00:46:10,020
there.
Sort out.

1166
00:46:10,380 --> 00:46:12,130
If they didn't walk around every
day, wouldn't spot these.

1167
00:46:12,140 --> 00:46:13,040
Things.
That's what I mean.

1168
00:46:13,050 --> 00:46:14,730
It reflects well in terms of
they knew that was a problem.

1169
00:46:14,740 --> 00:46:15,630
Yeah.
What does that show?

1170
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,520
That shows how well they know.
The children, we've avoided a

1171
00:46:17,530 --> 00:46:19,800
tiny little problem rather than
we come back in four years and

1172
00:46:19,810 --> 00:46:21,810
all your kids are fighting.
Surely that wouldn't work like

1173
00:46:21,820 --> 00:46:23,520
that, but that's the analogy of
roasted, you know?

1174
00:46:23,590 --> 00:46:26,170
No, definitely.
There's one little thing by the

1175
00:46:26,180 --> 00:46:29,060
way, before we carry on, these
committee reports always say

1176
00:46:29,070 --> 00:46:31,530
this and I know there's not an
endless money pot, but more

1177
00:46:31,540 --> 00:46:34,530
funding and and again, it's it's
just, you know, that came in

1178
00:46:34,540 --> 00:46:36,280
from the report, they're asking
for more money.

1179
00:46:36,570 --> 00:46:38,280
You know you need money to do
stuff.

1180
00:46:38,290 --> 00:46:41,200
If you're going to train your
your offset inspectors properly,

1181
00:46:41,250 --> 00:46:44,640
if you're going to move towards
what they want is a more in

1182
00:46:44,650 --> 00:46:48,160
depth inspection so you know
less frequent they're looking

1183
00:46:48,170 --> 00:46:50,800
for here, which we've just
discussed, but more more in

1184
00:46:50,810 --> 00:46:53,250
depth we're actually like we
talked about the good things are

1185
00:46:53,260 --> 00:46:55,480
really written about the the the
next steps are written about.

1186
00:46:55,490 --> 00:46:58,360
It's very clear for everyone and
if you're gonna come back like

1187
00:46:58,370 --> 00:47:00,480
we've been saying if you want to
offer actual support that's

1188
00:47:00,490 --> 00:47:03,060
going to cost money.
So again, funding is obviously a

1189
00:47:03,070 --> 00:47:05,350
really important one.
I've got a question for you, and

1190
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,840
this is a serious one.
As a professional in your

1191
00:47:07,850 --> 00:47:10,250
career, have you ever got
something wrong?

1192
00:47:10,590 --> 00:47:12,760
Yeah, obviously Right.
Have you ever?

1193
00:47:12,810 --> 00:47:15,660
Maybe blame the child for
something and you know you

1194
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:17,300
thought they did something and
they didn't do it.

1195
00:47:17,310 --> 00:47:19,320
Yeah, yeah.
You've apologised perhaps, or

1196
00:47:19,330 --> 00:47:20,870
whatever, right.
I think it's really important to

1197
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,740
apologise, by the way, because I
started my career.

1198
00:47:22,750 --> 00:47:23,810
I tried not to.
Sorry.

1199
00:47:23,820 --> 00:47:27,410
Yeah, like, yeah, like I felt
weak.

1200
00:47:27,620 --> 00:47:31,170
But actually maturing as a
teacher is just saying, oh, I'm

1201
00:47:31,180 --> 00:47:33,150
really sorry.
Yeah, and modelling to the

1202
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,940
children.
I was wrong, Yeah.

1203
00:47:35,950 --> 00:47:36,670
Yeah, I do.
I do.

1204
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,030
Only get to the kids, not my
friends.

1205
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,340
Or anything.
Yeah, not me, certainly.

1206
00:47:39,350 --> 00:47:42,160
I mean, so there's a reason for
this, right?

1207
00:47:42,170 --> 00:47:43,850
So as a professional, we make
mistakes, right?

1208
00:47:43,860 --> 00:47:46,370
We get, we do get things wrong.
We do judge things wrong.

1209
00:47:46,460 --> 00:47:49,040
I marked tests last week and I
made a couple of mistakes.

1210
00:47:49,050 --> 00:47:50,640
The kids are going through and
he gave me two here.

1211
00:47:50,650 --> 00:47:51,570
I should have got 3 marks.
Ohh.

1212
00:47:51,580 --> 00:47:52,730
Yeah.
I'm really sorry about that.

1213
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,770
We make mistakes.
Pathetic, right?

1214
00:47:54,980 --> 00:47:59,440
So this next point, you don't
make me come.

1215
00:48:00,130 --> 00:48:01,920
I'm holding it in.
This next point was, I think,

1216
00:48:01,930 --> 00:48:02,770
really important to me.
It was.

1217
00:48:03,420 --> 00:48:06,320
I'm sure there is an efficient
and and independent process for

1218
00:48:06,330 --> 00:48:09,170
schools to challenge the
findings because it is very much

1219
00:48:09,180 --> 00:48:10,440
right now.
The system is very much.

1220
00:48:10,450 --> 00:48:11,590
You get what you're given.
Yeah.

1221
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,660
And there's your report.
You complain to Ofsted.

1222
00:48:13,710 --> 00:48:15,210
Yeah, Yeah, you do.
You can.

1223
00:48:15,220 --> 00:48:17,140
You can making a plant, but
people don't do it.

1224
00:48:17,150 --> 00:48:18,510
And also like, they just haven't
got time.

1225
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:19,960
They're gonna sort you out.
So I do.

1226
00:48:19,970 --> 00:48:21,460
I like the fact that they've
addressed that.

1227
00:48:21,470 --> 00:48:24,020
We do need a bit of a better
system because the inspectors,

1228
00:48:24,030 --> 00:48:26,170
they are just people doing their
jobs like us teachers.

1229
00:48:26,180 --> 00:48:28,660
They will, they will just get
things wrong or miss things or

1230
00:48:28,670 --> 00:48:31,100
even just just misrepresent in
the report, not in the way they

1231
00:48:31,110 --> 00:48:32,660
wanted to.
And the school can challenge or

1232
00:48:32,670 --> 00:48:35,550
actually the way you've worded.
Kind of makes it seem like this

1233
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,280
and that's, I don't think that's
what you were trying to get

1234
00:48:37,290 --> 00:48:38,490
across.
And again, I think that's even

1235
00:48:38,500 --> 00:48:40,520
more important in the current
system, like talking about when

1236
00:48:40,530 --> 00:48:43,930
it's so cut throat and that one
word report determines your

1237
00:48:43,940 --> 00:48:45,870
scores fate basically, and your
your job.

1238
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,150
If that goes wrong, there's not
really a right of reply either.

1239
00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:51,030
Like this you can challenge the
conduct.

1240
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,430
Yeah.
Complete inspection.

1241
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,280
I think that has borne from the
Ruth Perry thing.

1242
00:48:54,290 --> 00:48:55,980
Because actually, you know what?
If you have a horrible

1243
00:48:55,990 --> 00:49:00,140
experience, like you said, that
Lady he's talking about the them

1244
00:49:00,150 --> 00:49:02,620
them saying what was it?
It was like if we if we don't

1245
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:04,450
try and break you, how do we
know you're fit enough to run?

1246
00:49:04,460 --> 00:49:05,820
Schools.
What are you talking about?

1247
00:49:05,830 --> 00:49:06,990
Yeah.
And that's the kind of thing

1248
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,260
though an independent process
that, an efficient independent

1249
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:11,600
process that we can get to the
bottom of that.

1250
00:49:11,610 --> 00:49:14,120
I'm you've been like you could
barely believe that was a thing.

1251
00:49:14,130 --> 00:49:15,700
Yeah.
Well look there's an independent

1252
00:49:15,710 --> 00:49:17,730
process and we go through it,
we'll find out hopefully, you

1253
00:49:17,740 --> 00:49:19,180
know, I mean it's a good
process.

1254
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:20,660
That's how we get to the bottom
of things.

1255
00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:23,100
Yeah.
Wait.

1256
00:49:23,110 --> 00:49:26,460
Next one, carry out research to
fully understand the causes of

1257
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:29,500
inspection related workload
pressure and assess what changes

1258
00:49:29,580 --> 00:49:31,020
would genuinely be helpful in
reducing this.

1259
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:33,240
I don't think we talk about much
because you can look back at the

1260
00:49:33,250 --> 00:49:34,670
other one.
There's other committees right

1261
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,600
now which talk about well-being
reduced.

1262
00:49:36,610 --> 00:49:39,330
I think workload and well-being,
well-being being reduced,

1263
00:49:39,340 --> 00:49:42,760
workload being reduced.
Because yeah, the the well-being

1264
00:49:42,770 --> 00:49:45,790
is inexplicably linked to the
amount of work you've got to do

1265
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,260
and the amount of work you got
to do is also linked to the

1266
00:49:48,270 --> 00:49:51,090
pressures that SLT feel from
Ofsted because their jobs on the

1267
00:49:51,100 --> 00:49:53,030
line.
So those are points that we just

1268
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,220
discussed were the
recommendations for DfE and

1269
00:49:55,230 --> 00:49:57,720
Ofsted together to consider.
Now we've got a few bits here

1270
00:49:57,730 --> 00:49:59,860
from that we're just.
Going to dive into Ofsted.

1271
00:49:59,940 --> 00:50:02,690
Just because this is the juicy.
Guy this This is the thing from

1272
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:06,260
a teacher's point of view.
We think about Steph yeah.

1273
00:50:06,270 --> 00:50:08,100
So, Hayden, what do I what
should Ofsted?

1274
00:50:08,110 --> 00:50:10,980
Do OK, number one, consider a
small increase in the notice

1275
00:50:10,990 --> 00:50:12,860
period given to schools before
inspections.

1276
00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:13,880
This is a really interesting
one.

1277
00:50:13,890 --> 00:50:15,440
You can give me your opinion on
this in a second.

1278
00:50:15,450 --> 00:50:16,940
I want you guys to think about
this as well.

1279
00:50:17,210 --> 00:50:22,080
The committee suggested five
days rather than the usual 24

1280
00:50:22,090 --> 00:50:26,060
hours to be appropriate.
What your thoughts?

1281
00:50:27,050 --> 00:50:30,240
We talked about this briefly.
I my OK, so this is one of the

1282
00:50:30,250 --> 00:50:34,040
first times in this committee
report that I thought that it's

1283
00:50:34,050 --> 00:50:37,290
pointless.
Umm I I I I do genuinely think

1284
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:43,330
that knowing Ofsted so so you
got to imagine we work in you

1285
00:50:43,340 --> 00:50:46,500
know minimum weeks within a
school but usually terms right

1286
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,110
and when we're when we're
introducing something or a block

1287
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,170
of planning.
The smallest block of planning I

1288
00:50:51,180 --> 00:50:52,590
can think of is a three-week
block.

1289
00:50:53,060 --> 00:50:55,680
You know in maths you might have
a six week block where it's

1290
00:50:55,690 --> 00:50:57,940
addition and subtraction.
English, it's a three-week block

1291
00:50:57,950 --> 00:50:59,110
where we do some independent
writing.

1292
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,690
Towards the end, we do some
reading and as we go, 5 days

1293
00:51:02,700 --> 00:51:06,810
notice, OK, you'll know it's
next Monday.

1294
00:51:06,940 --> 00:51:08,510
I think there's a real problem
there.

1295
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:12,250
Unless Ofsted dramatically
changes its culture, if it stays

1296
00:51:12,260 --> 00:51:15,610
as it is and we move to a five
day notice, I think instead of

1297
00:51:15,620 --> 00:51:18,190
one night of panicking and
working overload and doing

1298
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,870
loads, trying everything ready,
we'll just end up with five

1299
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,470
nights of that instead.
And I don't necessarily think

1300
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,390
that unless this is along with
something else, I don't think

1301
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,470
this would do much at all.
Because when we're saying we

1302
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,660
want to know an Ofsted come five
days isn't solving a problem

1303
00:51:33,850 --> 00:51:35,800
again, we can't implement
something in five days.

1304
00:51:35,810 --> 00:51:37,940
You said two months earlier even
that would be difficult to

1305
00:51:37,950 --> 00:51:41,000
implement something important if
we know, for example, right.

1306
00:51:41,010 --> 00:51:43,280
If you work in a school now,
it's January, it's February,

1307
00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:45,240
it's not January.
Oh yeah, because I won the

1308
00:51:45,250 --> 00:51:47,920
January challenge.
It's it's February if if for

1309
00:51:47,930 --> 00:51:52,030
example we knew OK listen offset
are coming in December 2024 OK.

1310
00:51:53,380 --> 00:51:58,490
I think that for for well-being
and workload we can map out we

1311
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:01,170
can map that out we can map this
year out now we can set a cool

1312
00:52:01,180 --> 00:52:03,650
OK so we've got until then we're
gonna work on maths for this

1313
00:52:03,660 --> 00:52:07,090
long history we can start
working on in time 6.

1314
00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:09,630
Because by the time we have some
holidays and we replant stuff

1315
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,470
that can be thing that's working
in progress.

1316
00:52:11,940 --> 00:52:15,610
If it's five days still I'd be
like Oh my God they could come

1317
00:52:15,620 --> 00:52:18,930
next week and we still need to
get history sorted and math

1318
00:52:18,940 --> 00:52:20,660
sorted and English.
So instead of us mapping that

1319
00:52:20,670 --> 00:52:23,110
out nicely and helping
well-being and spreading the

1320
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,890
workload, it's still going to be
ohh God, we need to do it all

1321
00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:28,450
right now.
Because five days isn't enough.

1322
00:52:28,460 --> 00:52:29,780
Yeah.
So I don't know when offset are

1323
00:52:29,790 --> 00:52:31,150
gonna come.
History's not ready.

1324
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:32,690
Mass isn't ready, and English
isn't ready.

1325
00:52:32,740 --> 00:52:35,370
Ohh let's do it all now.
And they still might be a year.

1326
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:36,550
Yeah.
Whereas if we knew it was a

1327
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,130
year, you could very easily be
like, ohh gosh OK, right.

1328
00:52:40,190 --> 00:52:42,070
Workload well-being.
Let's balance this out.

1329
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,120
We've got a plan, I think.
That's, and it's not like people

1330
00:52:45,130 --> 00:52:47,070
have a really negative opinion
about the whole life, but then

1331
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:48,790
you know they're coming so you
can put everything in place.

1332
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,100
It's like, yeah.
What do you think we're?

1333
00:52:50,110 --> 00:52:51,240
Doing, yeah.
That's that's the point.

1334
00:52:51,250 --> 00:52:52,440
Yeah.
We're putting in place anyway,

1335
00:52:52,450 --> 00:52:54,470
just just rushed and quicker
than we do.

1336
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,750
Show off what we can do.
Like what?

1337
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,790
What's wrong with?
That it's like a speed camera,

1338
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,440
right.
People are always just like,

1339
00:53:00,450 --> 00:53:01,770
ohh, why is there a speed
camera?

1340
00:53:01,780 --> 00:53:02,760
They're just trying to get
money.

1341
00:53:02,770 --> 00:53:05,050
It's like, no, the the vast
majority of why speed cameras

1342
00:53:05,060 --> 00:53:06,410
there is it's a deterrent.
Yeah.

1343
00:53:06,420 --> 00:53:08,640
It's to slow you down.
It's like you're just slowing

1344
00:53:08,650 --> 00:53:09,850
people down and taking their
money.

1345
00:53:09,860 --> 00:53:13,590
Yeah, yeah, that's the point.
We're just gonna implement

1346
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:14,750
stuff.
Ohh, you're just good.

1347
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,830
You're just giving people a year
to improve their schools so that

1348
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,650
they look good.
When you come and say yeah,

1349
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:20,900
yeah, you can't fudge that it's
not about looking good, it's

1350
00:53:20,910 --> 00:53:22,880
about being good.
Yeah, exactly.

1351
00:53:22,890 --> 00:53:25,240
Yeah, it's weird, you know,
people in the private sector

1352
00:53:25,250 --> 00:53:28,250
spoke to me before about saying
like, if we ever get audited, we

1353
00:53:28,260 --> 00:53:30,220
know months in advance when
we're gonna get audited.

1354
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:32,330
So we make sure everything is in
place for then we clean up a

1355
00:53:32,340 --> 00:53:35,440
bit, you know, we just make sure
that it gets us to do the

1356
00:53:35,450 --> 00:53:38,230
things.
Because the huge things, you

1357
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,580
can't fudge.
Because when they come in and

1358
00:53:40,590 --> 00:53:43,700
check safeguarding, let's say
it's in 12 months, you know it's

1359
00:53:43,710 --> 00:53:45,060
in 12 months.
Yeah, they're going to be

1360
00:53:45,070 --> 00:53:48,030
looking back through the logs of
12 months at least.

1361
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,990
If if they know they're not
going to go, should look at the

1362
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,550
last week's worth of stuff,
that's good.

1363
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,530
That's nice.
No, they're gonna they're gonna

1364
00:53:54,540 --> 00:53:57,510
scroll back and pick a random
day and be like, OK, what

1365
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:58,510
happened here?
How is this far?

1366
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:00,590
How was this sorted?
You can't fudge it.

1367
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,000
It's impossible.
And then they also talk to

1368
00:54:03,010 --> 00:54:05,070
parents.
So if your parents are having a

1369
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,000
bad safeguarding experience in
general, they're going to find,

1370
00:54:07,010 --> 00:54:10,650
they're going to find out.
So this is my opinion on this

1371
00:54:10,700 --> 00:54:14,780
five day increasing to five.
This is it does just for those

1372
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:18,220
people who don't want to keep an
Ofsted folder, which I don't

1373
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:20,140
think anyone should have to do.
They they don't wanna just have

1374
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:22,140
stuff printed at the time and
then constantly updating it

1375
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:24,090
cause ohh, we've changed this
document now so I better reprint

1376
00:54:24,100 --> 00:54:27,620
that in case they come tomorrow.
At least it gives them five days

1377
00:54:27,830 --> 00:54:29,260
to not have to do those things
all the time.

1378
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:31,300
Because I know when they came
for us, we did want to print out

1379
00:54:31,310 --> 00:54:32,780
stuff because we wanted to show
our policies.

1380
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:35,800
We wanted we wanted to easily
have on hand a lot of the stuff

1381
00:54:35,810 --> 00:54:37,780
that we've put in place.
We don't rely on your memory

1382
00:54:37,790 --> 00:54:39,210
and.
That no memory or even just

1383
00:54:39,220 --> 00:54:40,540
scrolling for your laptop and
trying to show.

1384
00:54:40,550 --> 00:54:42,230
I didn't want to do that.
I just wanted to have it in

1385
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:45,420
front of me and it was a bit of
a faff, knowing that only had 24

1386
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:46,810
hours.
Now to get all of this rough

1387
00:54:46,820 --> 00:54:48,340
printed and collated and put to
folder.

1388
00:54:48,410 --> 00:54:50,780
If I knew I had five days, I
might not have panicked so much

1389
00:54:50,790 --> 00:54:53,460
and be like, OK, the first day I
just write down, right, what

1390
00:54:53,470 --> 00:54:56,600
stuff do I want as a maths lead,
what do I want to show him or

1391
00:54:56,610 --> 00:54:58,500
her?
And then I'll get it.

1392
00:54:58,550 --> 00:55:01,200
OK, tomorrow I'll print these
bits and next day I'm just going

1393
00:55:01,210 --> 00:55:03,200
to check that policy, actually
make sure it is definitely up to

1394
00:55:03,210 --> 00:55:04,890
date.
Oh yeah, that's it.

1395
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:06,400
That's all good.
Yeah, cool.

1396
00:55:06,450 --> 00:55:08,120
It just gives that a little bit
of leeway.

1397
00:55:08,130 --> 00:55:12,180
Time to get the stuff ready.
It's not time to make major

1398
00:55:12,190 --> 00:55:12,860
changes.
That's.

1399
00:55:13,090 --> 00:55:14,880
In that five days, could you
have introduced a new

1400
00:55:14,890 --> 00:55:17,090
calculation policy and have it
embedded for the children they

1401
00:55:17,100 --> 00:55:19,610
do when when he conferences them
and talk to them about it?

1402
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:21,690
No, of course you know.
But I tell you what though, it's

1403
00:55:21,700 --> 00:55:23,390
better than one day.
I bet they're yeah, I bet there

1404
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,130
are people in positions, and I
don't even think this is a

1405
00:55:25,140 --> 00:55:28,100
terrible thing where not
everyone super organised, right?

1406
00:55:28,110 --> 00:55:30,420
Well, they might have embedded
something, but they just haven't

1407
00:55:30,430 --> 00:55:31,710
written it down.
On paper, yeah.

1408
00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:34,210
Genuinely where it's like yeah I
do I do need to write that up at

1409
00:55:34,220 --> 00:55:36,300
something we're doing the thing
I just haven't written up in

1410
00:55:36,310 --> 00:55:38,690
this nicely worded policy have
not any time out because I'm

1411
00:55:38,700 --> 00:55:41,470
doing your job because I'm in a
really small school and then it

1412
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,490
might be like OK, OK actually I
probably should write that up

1413
00:55:44,500 --> 00:55:47,710
just cause inspector is coming
and it won't look as good if I

1414
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:49,670
just say we do all these things
the opposite.

1415
00:55:50,140 --> 00:55:51,980
It's embedded.
Exactly.

1416
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:53,860
So it gives him a little bit of
leeway time just to do those

1417
00:55:53,870 --> 00:55:56,250
things and yeah I don't know I
think it's terrible I just don't

1418
00:55:56,260 --> 00:55:58,170
think it's that good.
Again, it goes down to analogy

1419
00:55:58,180 --> 00:56:00,790
of yeah alright, in this current
framework it's alright, but if

1420
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,710
we're gonna fix Ofsted, this
isn't really congruent with like

1421
00:56:03,780 --> 00:56:05,930
the.
Fixes like I I don't think

1422
00:56:05,940 --> 00:56:08,750
anything would have been
different how we prepared for

1423
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,710
offset and went through a dip in
our well-being.

1424
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:13,330
I would say knowing Ofsted will
come in, I don't think anything

1425
00:56:13,340 --> 00:56:14,800
would have changed if it was 5
days not.

1426
00:56:14,810 --> 00:56:15,760
You know what I mean?
Different.

1427
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,990
I just wouldn't have been up
till like 9:00 PM before.

1428
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,780
Yeah, that's it.
I just want to spread.

1429
00:56:19,790 --> 00:56:22,330
Across the face, OK, it's one of
them things where it's like,

1430
00:56:22,370 --> 00:56:24,910
alright, yeah, it's better.
Save me a day of.

1431
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,140
Stress but it's not you know but
yeah the the next one is really

1432
00:56:28,150 --> 00:56:30,740
really really important and and
this this is again part of that

1433
00:56:30,810 --> 00:56:33,660
kind of thing we talked about
with potluck where there is

1434
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:37,290
there is just a difference.
With smaller schools there's

1435
00:56:37,300 --> 00:56:40,960
like you just said there's not
enough people to be sat having

1436
00:56:40,970 --> 00:56:43,000
released time getting out to do
your jobs.

1437
00:56:43,090 --> 00:56:45,080
Each person might lead 3
subjects.

1438
00:56:45,090 --> 00:56:47,860
There's only six teachers in the
whole school and it kind of

1439
00:56:47,870 --> 00:56:51,170
links in with points here about
inspectors need to fully

1440
00:56:51,180 --> 00:56:53,910
properly take into account the
factors, like school size.

1441
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,320
Yeah, like the number of its
pupils from disadvantaged

1442
00:56:56,330 --> 00:56:58,170
groups.
That's gonna have a huge impact

1443
00:56:58,220 --> 00:57:02,370
on when you conference with
pupils as as an inspector,

1444
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,750
you're going to get less out of
children who are more

1445
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,790
disadvantaged and have a lower
vocabulary and aren't confident

1446
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,960
enough speaking.
You're going to get less out of

1447
00:57:09,970 --> 00:57:12,170
them than you are in a school
and a catchment area full of

1448
00:57:12,180 --> 00:57:14,510
affluent people.
But the same things could be

1449
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,590
going on.
So if you're just going off face

1450
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,570
value of what the kids say and
maybe what you see in a snapshot

1451
00:57:19,580 --> 00:57:23,700
of a day or maybe some data
which is just lower because

1452
00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:27,570
different backgrounds have
different outcomes you I think

1453
00:57:27,580 --> 00:57:30,050
what's really important and this
is a bit of a theme here.

1454
00:57:30,060 --> 00:57:32,230
I don't I couldn't believe this
wasn't a thing already.

1455
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:34,370
Like it's it's doing it's doing
these things.

1456
00:57:34,380 --> 00:57:37,050
I'm like that's not a what do
you mean this is a yeah this is

1457
00:57:37,060 --> 00:57:38,610
a thing they should do.
This isn't a thing.

1458
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:42,320
Obviously, there's disadvantaged
groups or high levels of SND.

1459
00:57:42,390 --> 00:57:44,520
If there's recruitment and
retention challenges in that

1460
00:57:44,530 --> 00:57:48,160
area, and you know, if there are
retention issues in your school,

1461
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:50,150
look at that as well.
Like, why is there retention

1462
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:51,720
issues?
So this all looks really good on

1463
00:57:51,730 --> 00:57:53,420
paper.
You've got all the documents.

1464
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:56,060
This is fantastic.
But you've had a turnover of 50%

1465
00:57:56,070 --> 00:57:58,440
every year for four years.
Yeah, What's going on?

1466
00:57:58,450 --> 00:58:01,340
You know you need to take full
account for everything, both

1467
00:58:01,350 --> 00:58:03,700
good and bad.
And that, yeah, there is good

1468
00:58:03,710 --> 00:58:05,350
and bad to that.
Just speaking about recruitment

1469
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,640
and retention, I've always
wondered that because you do

1470
00:58:07,650 --> 00:58:09,700
get, you do get schools of
really high turnover and it's

1471
00:58:09,710 --> 00:58:13,930
not like 99% of the time it's
because the SLT is is making a

1472
00:58:13,940 --> 00:58:15,740
toxic environment.
That's why people generally

1473
00:58:15,750 --> 00:58:17,640
leave their jobs.
Some people leave for other

1474
00:58:17,650 --> 00:58:20,980
reasons and also the reasons
could be that you know the the,

1475
00:58:20,990 --> 00:58:22,220
the catchment is different, the
children.

1476
00:58:22,230 --> 00:58:24,840
Maybe you find it tricky working
with that particular group of

1477
00:58:24,850 --> 00:58:26,840
children and you think, oh, this
is not my skill set, someone,

1478
00:58:27,010 --> 00:58:29,040
whatever.
But normally it's the toxicity

1479
00:58:29,050 --> 00:58:30,940
of the school, right?
If you're in an affluent area

1480
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:34,080
and there's high turnover,
there's only one reason, yeah,

1481
00:58:34,090 --> 00:58:35,530
and that's going to be the
culture of the school.

1482
00:58:35,540 --> 00:58:38,550
Yeah, pretty much.
So I think Ofsted should be

1483
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:43,370
confident enough to be like, OK,
one, we understand then why some

1484
00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:45,640
of your staff might not have
these things embedded because

1485
00:58:45,650 --> 00:58:47,690
they're all new.
Yeah, they've been here for 10

1486
00:58:47,700 --> 00:58:48,990
years working on these.
Policies.

1487
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:50,710
Only six of them.
Yeah, six of them.

1488
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,680
So we'll be a bit of leniency
for that because they all, they

1489
00:58:52,690 --> 00:58:55,010
all worked in the school within
for for one year or less.

1490
00:58:55,260 --> 00:58:59,090
And then also we're now going to
look into SLT a bit more because

1491
00:58:59,100 --> 00:59:00,990
we're a bit.
Why?

1492
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,360
Why are all your staff leaving?
Because I think these schools

1493
00:59:04,370 --> 00:59:06,250
get away with it.
In fact, in fact, it's always

1494
00:59:06,260 --> 00:59:08,080
the outstanding schools really
they have.

1495
00:59:08,090 --> 00:59:10,370
It's like, OK, they're playing
the game, but also their staff

1496
00:59:10,380 --> 00:59:11,490
hate working.
There.

1497
00:59:11,620 --> 00:59:13,600
Yeah.
Hmm.

1498
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:15,650
They get burnt out and leave.
Interesting.

1499
00:59:15,660 --> 00:59:17,110
Yeah.
Ohh outstanding school though

1500
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,580
cause these policies are great.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

1501
00:59:19,590 --> 00:59:20,310
Anyway.
Yeah.

1502
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,070
It's not it's not manageable.
I think we need a whole holistic

1503
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:24,930
picture there.
Yeah.

1504
00:59:24,940 --> 00:59:28,370
So this next one again it's
really it's linked to what we've

1505
00:59:28,380 --> 00:59:32,350
been saying what your idea about
separating out safeguarding with

1506
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:33,570
teaching and learning and I
think it's.

1507
00:59:33,580 --> 00:59:35,430
I think it's a vital thing.
I completely on board with what

1508
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,290
you're saying.
So this committee here is

1509
00:59:37,300 --> 00:59:41,430
saying, OK, schools need to
ensure sorry, officer needs to

1510
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,520
ensure that schools are only
judged as inadequate.

1511
00:59:44,570 --> 00:59:46,300
So that's a horrible word for
your schools.

1512
00:59:46,310 --> 00:59:49,680
Who said you only use that word
inadequate when there are

1513
00:59:49,690 --> 00:59:52,880
fundamental failings in keeping
children safe?

1514
00:59:53,050 --> 00:59:56,360
I'm fully on board with this.
I don't think we should be

1515
00:59:56,370 --> 01:00:00,220
scared to say that when a school
is inadequate, if they are

1516
01:00:00,230 --> 01:00:03,820
failing to keep a child safe,
that is the ultimate barometer

1517
01:00:03,830 --> 01:00:07,140
for me and.
This is saying only when that

1518
01:00:07,150 --> 01:00:09,530
happens.
Do you agree with not saying

1519
01:00:09,540 --> 01:00:12,940
that if the maths curriculum is
a bit off, is there levels here?

1520
01:00:12,980 --> 01:00:15,200
Would you go that far?
I think again, it just boils

1521
01:00:15,210 --> 01:00:18,040
down to what is this report,
what is this report trying to

1522
01:00:18,050 --> 01:00:19,910
do?
In one breath it's saying get

1523
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,460
rid of the judgments, second
breath saying we need to really

1524
01:00:23,470 --> 01:00:25,570
review when they're called an
adequate well, can we just get

1525
01:00:25,580 --> 01:00:27,740
rid of an adequate?
But do you think that it's OK

1526
01:00:28,010 --> 01:00:30,370
because here's where I'm on the,
I guess on the other side of the

1527
01:00:30,380 --> 01:00:32,820
fence here, then I'm going to
push you because I think one

1528
01:00:32,830 --> 01:00:34,560
word judgments are OK for
safeguarding.

1529
01:00:34,850 --> 01:00:36,600
I think.
I think it's very black, not the

1530
01:00:36,610 --> 01:00:40,600
school, so if, but if.
But I would be happy to say the

1531
01:00:40,610 --> 01:00:43,650
safeguarding is inadequate and
that would be my judgement.

1532
01:00:43,660 --> 01:00:46,360
My judgement is inadequate and
obviously it would have to be

1533
01:00:46,370 --> 01:00:50,030
clearly about safeguarding.
But I would be very, very on

1534
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:53,310
board with a highly trained
group like Ofsted coming in and

1535
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,960
saying these children aren't
safe, This is inadequate.

1536
01:00:56,190 --> 01:00:58,540
So for one word judgement there
it's fine.

1537
01:00:58,610 --> 01:01:00,360
Do you think it's still OK or
would you?

1538
01:01:00,370 --> 01:01:01,940
Would you?
I'm more on that side of it

1539
01:01:01,950 --> 01:01:03,580
being OK with safeguarding
because it is.

1540
01:01:03,590 --> 01:01:07,430
To me, it's just such just it's
totally separate from teaching

1541
01:01:07,700 --> 01:01:08,590
it.
Honestly, it's not.

1542
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,010
It's almost nothing to do with
my profession being judged.

1543
01:01:11,060 --> 01:01:12,520
Sure, but like how well you're?
Doing.

1544
01:01:12,530 --> 01:01:13,940
Yeah.
How well, how well the kids are

1545
01:01:13,950 --> 01:01:14,750
learning.
Making progress.

1546
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:16,410
I think to me like we we don't
need to.

1547
01:01:16,420 --> 01:01:18,750
There's no need to use those
words.

1548
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:20,970
It's really not that important
to call, to call the school

1549
01:01:20,980 --> 01:01:22,510
inadequate at teaching and
learning.

1550
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,890
Just give them action points and
what's good and what's bad.

1551
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,250
Parents, when they go around the
school, will get a gist of like

1552
01:01:27,260 --> 01:01:29,050
the teaching and learning and
what's going on in that school.

1553
01:01:29,060 --> 01:01:30,360
If they want to send their kids
there, they can.

1554
01:01:30,370 --> 01:01:32,490
They'll talk to other parents.
There's loads of ways they can

1555
01:01:32,500 --> 01:01:35,220
find out about whether they're
going to like their kid in this

1556
01:01:35,230 --> 01:01:36,950
school for that.
But safeguarding you don't

1557
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:38,130
really.
You don't get a sense of that.

1558
01:01:38,690 --> 01:01:41,460
There is actually no way.
You are entirely as a parent

1559
01:01:41,570 --> 01:01:45,200
reliant on information from an
independent inspector about how

1560
01:01:45,210 --> 01:01:46,370
safe your child is going to be
there.

1561
01:01:46,380 --> 01:01:48,980
That is so much more important
in in my book.

1562
01:01:48,990 --> 01:01:51,740
So yeah.
I'm going to go off a bit of a

1563
01:01:51,750 --> 01:01:53,530
side note here because me and
you are going through this right

1564
01:01:53,540 --> 01:01:56,250
now, our children, we are
looking at nurseries for, you

1565
01:01:56,260 --> 01:01:58,980
know, for for when when our
partners go back to work.

1566
01:01:59,070 --> 01:02:02,210
You know, it could be that our
children have to go to nursery

1567
01:02:02,220 --> 01:02:05,510
one or two days a week and we're
looking at nurseries right now.

1568
01:02:05,570 --> 01:02:08,090
And I can tell you, having
walked around the nursery for

1569
01:02:08,100 --> 01:02:10,570
the first time, the parent, and
having it from the other fur,

1570
01:02:10,790 --> 01:02:13,670
when I've stepped in, there were
very specific things that I'm

1571
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:14,730
looking for.
Right.

1572
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,350
And the very specific things are
how happy are the children?

1573
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:22,230
Yeah.
And is it clear to me that there

1574
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:25,540
is a lot of things in place for
the safety of my child?

1575
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,200
And you know, when, when the
nurse leader was talking about

1576
01:02:29,210 --> 01:02:31,770
all this amazing stuff they do
in terms of their, you know,

1577
01:02:31,780 --> 01:02:33,610
getting ready for school, they
do some numbers.

1578
01:02:33,700 --> 01:02:36,710
I'm kind of nothing like, Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I

1579
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,050
know.
And I'm just watching a group of

1580
01:02:38,060 --> 01:02:40,970
kids play with like Sandpit and
then one of them decide they

1581
01:02:40,980 --> 01:02:43,010
don't wanna do it anymore and
run over to a different thing.

1582
01:02:43,020 --> 01:02:44,360
Yeah.
And then play over there

1583
01:02:44,370 --> 01:02:45,720
happily.
That's and and I'm.

1584
01:02:45,730 --> 01:02:47,460
I'm just saying that's not a
problem.

1585
01:02:47,530 --> 01:02:48,810
They wanna go and learn over.
They're cool.

1586
01:02:48,820 --> 01:02:50,880
They're still have over there.
There's about over here.

1587
01:02:50,950 --> 01:02:55,320
And it was really interesting
how I natural reactions went to

1588
01:02:55,330 --> 01:03:00,200
just being a parent and how I
think as a teacher now and as

1589
01:03:00,390 --> 01:03:02,640
like thinking about how Ofsted
might judge, because Ofsted

1590
01:03:02,650 --> 01:03:07,180
going judge nurseries as well.
I think that I would want the

1591
01:03:07,190 --> 01:03:11,180
most stringent clear black and
white judgement on how safe kids

1592
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:13,680
are in a school.
Yeah, do you know, I think

1593
01:03:14,330 --> 01:03:16,810
there's a middle ground almost
with the safeguarding, but I

1594
01:03:16,820 --> 01:03:18,600
still think no judgments for
teaching learning.

1595
01:03:18,610 --> 01:03:20,940
I really think we can just
better summarise it with a

1596
01:03:20,950 --> 01:03:23,190
detailed report.
I think we've safeguarding there

1597
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,340
needs to be, like I said, a
separate report that goes with

1598
01:03:25,350 --> 01:03:27,980
it, attached to it, whatever.
But it is a separate section

1599
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:31,200
about safeguarding.
It has the areas that the school

1600
01:03:31,210 --> 01:03:33,000
doing really well.
It does have some suggestions on

1601
01:03:33,010 --> 01:03:35,740
things to improve, but almost
like you know like a car MOT.

1602
01:03:35,810 --> 01:03:36,790
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

1603
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,030
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've got,
we've got these advisories, like

1604
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,280
we think the school systems
alright, but it's a bit old.

1605
01:03:41,290 --> 01:03:43,290
Like they could probably have a
bit more efficient way of

1606
01:03:43,300 --> 01:03:46,250
logging these things.
But if there's anything that you

1607
01:03:46,260 --> 01:03:48,830
like a driving test is major,
major things, right.

1608
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:52,110
It is just a fail and it is very
much logged as inadequate or or

1609
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:53,830
it's fine.
It's not even like good

1610
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:55,970
outstanding, it is just it's
fine.

1611
01:03:55,980 --> 01:03:57,780
There's some advisories.
Maybe there's more in other

1612
01:03:57,790 --> 01:03:59,730
schools and others probably
always going to be advisories,

1613
01:03:59,740 --> 01:04:01,490
always advisories.
That's fine.

1614
01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:04,220
You know your tyres are a bit
worn but it's not safe for the

1615
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:05,840
road.
Yeah.

1616
01:04:05,850 --> 01:04:07,900
And those ones.
Very clear on the report whether

1617
01:04:07,910 --> 01:04:10,030
you cannot drive this.
Yeah it might not be a word.

1618
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:11,410
I don't know.
It could be, it could be a

1619
01:04:11,420 --> 01:04:12,970
number.
It could be a colour or

1620
01:04:12,980 --> 01:04:14,930
whatever.
But when when your car fails an

1621
01:04:14,940 --> 01:04:18,950
MOT, we don't book the car out.
No, only in very we fix it, we

1622
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:19,610
fix the thing.
So.

1623
01:04:19,620 --> 01:04:21,880
So it has to be treated as
urgent with the.

1624
01:04:21,890 --> 01:04:24,430
With the safeguards like the
school cannot continue.

1625
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,040
This cannot continue.
Now that's a major thing.

1626
01:04:27,050 --> 01:04:28,100
We're going to fix it before
the.

1627
01:04:28,110 --> 01:04:29,710
School.
And you know what happens with

1628
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:31,920
cars as well, Once, once it's
fixed you, it has to be

1629
01:04:31,930 --> 01:04:34,570
immediately MOT again and then
it's flagged up as now it's

1630
01:04:34,580 --> 01:04:36,590
absolutely fine.
Rather than what the current

1631
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:38,950
system of rules is or requires
improvement.

1632
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:40,470
See you in six years, three
years.

1633
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,520
Sorry, See you in three years.
But they're saying so welcome

1634
01:04:42,530 --> 01:04:43,810
now we're tarnished with this
label.

1635
01:04:43,820 --> 01:04:45,560
We fixed it within three weeks.
Yeah.

1636
01:04:45,620 --> 01:04:47,030
And now we're tarnished with
this label for.

1637
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,790
For I think currently you can
get Ofsted more more quickly

1638
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:51,310
than that.
They do come back and check but

1639
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,880
but they are saying they're
saying here within three years.

1640
01:04:54,890 --> 01:04:56,950
So I don't know.
It's a tough one.

1641
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:59,050
Summary there is.
Good though, take advice from

1642
01:04:59,060 --> 01:05:02,250
the cars.
Basically, your children are

1643
01:05:02,260 --> 01:05:03,370
just like cars.
Yeah, basically.

1644
01:05:03,380 --> 01:05:05,430
My MOT report was probably more
detailed.

1645
01:05:05,540 --> 01:05:09,580
Yeah, and informative to me than
the entirety of the Ofsted

1646
01:05:09,590 --> 01:05:12,110
report of four years of.
That's really, really think,

1647
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,530
come on, I've got this next one
about Inspect This.

1648
01:05:15,540 --> 01:05:19,050
This to me was the one I read.
And I thought, what?

1649
01:05:19,100 --> 01:05:22,450
What do you mean this came out
of a commit like this?

1650
01:05:22,460 --> 01:05:25,270
I couldn't believe this wasn't
already a thing, but I could

1651
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,730
because we've spoken about it.
A lead inspector you have to

1652
01:05:28,740 --> 01:05:31,390
ensure as a minimum.
This is saying as a minimum how

1653
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,610
to make a step better.
The lead inspector must have an

1654
01:05:34,620 --> 01:05:38,950
expertise in the type of school
they're inspecting and in large

1655
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,070
teams going into an inspection.
The majority of inspectors

1656
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,290
visiting a school should also
have that relevant experience

1657
01:05:45,420 --> 01:05:48,670
for anyone who doesn't know.
For example, you may well work

1658
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:50,810
in a Junior School.
Let's let's say you work in an

1659
01:05:50,820 --> 01:05:53,110
Infant School to just exacerbate
this a little bit.

1660
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,650
You work in an Infant School,
you get offended, someone comes

1661
01:05:55,660 --> 01:05:59,210
in they they used to run
secondary school mats, multi

1662
01:05:59,220 --> 01:06:01,430
Academy trusts.
All secondary schools had a

1663
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,410
specialist in sixth form.
That's the inspector.

1664
01:06:03,420 --> 01:06:05,240
Yeah, that's the inspector.
So they're they're inspectors.

1665
01:06:05,250 --> 01:06:07,500
Expertise is secondary
provision.

1666
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:09,160
Yep.
They go off, they go to Ofsted.

1667
01:06:09,170 --> 01:06:10,740
Obviously need to train to
become an inspector.

1668
01:06:10,750 --> 01:06:14,240
I get that, but their expertise
certainly isn't in early years.

1669
01:06:14,710 --> 01:06:17,830
They go to an Infant School and
have to give judgments on early

1670
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:18,960
years.
Deep dive, early years.

1671
01:06:18,970 --> 01:06:20,380
That's what we're.
Talking about right now, and I

1672
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:22,560
couldn't believe that this
wasn't already a thing.

1673
01:06:22,570 --> 01:06:26,020
So how important is this?
If we're gonna fix off, then I

1674
01:06:26,030 --> 01:06:30,100
don't need to say much really.
Would I, As far as a head

1675
01:06:30,110 --> 01:06:34,620
teacher, would I get my PE lead
to go and do a full audit of the

1676
01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:38,110
school's English lessons that
ever happened?

1677
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:39,590
Ever.
No, Of course it.

1678
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,660
Of course it wouldn't.
Would I take it seriously if if

1679
01:06:42,670 --> 01:06:43,790
that?
No, of course I wouldn't.

1680
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,070
I wouldn't take that.
I wouldn't take that feedback

1681
01:06:46,150 --> 01:06:48,530
with a pinch of salt.
I wouldn't.

1682
01:06:48,580 --> 01:06:50,010
I'm not.
I'm not disrespecting that

1683
01:06:50,020 --> 01:06:51,830
person.
I'm just saying you're not the

1684
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:53,830
most qualified person to be
doing this, so why are you doing

1685
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:54,730
it?
That's just stupid.

1686
01:06:54,910 --> 01:06:56,450
So I don't have much to say
about that one.

1687
01:06:56,460 --> 01:06:57,670
It's just, again, it should
have.

1688
01:06:57,680 --> 01:06:58,990
Why is that not in place
already?

1689
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:02,550
No, in place already funding
offset have got their own

1690
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:04,130
struggles.
They have got their own we have.

1691
01:07:04,170 --> 01:07:06,070
We haven't really mentioned
that, but they do they.

1692
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:07,750
Are always.
Mentioned in in the next one

1693
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:09,660
about retention.
So actually, yeah, of course it

1694
01:07:09,670 --> 01:07:10,290
is.
Yeah, the next one.

1695
01:07:10,300 --> 01:07:13,120
So the next point is Commission
an independent assessment of the

1696
01:07:13,130 --> 01:07:17,930
factors affecting retention of
experienced HMI, so the the

1697
01:07:17,940 --> 01:07:19,780
inspectors.
Let's just, I'm going to zoom

1698
01:07:19,790 --> 01:07:21,940
out for a minute.
We're talking about actual

1699
01:07:21,950 --> 01:07:23,310
Ofsted inspectors.
Yeah.

1700
01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:25,710
We're very quick to kind of jump
on the bandwagon about

1701
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,060
well-being of teachers,
well-being of schools, and of

1702
01:07:28,070 --> 01:07:29,960
course we're because we're
teachers, it's really important

1703
01:07:29,970 --> 01:07:31,920
to us.
Do you think what's happening

1704
01:07:31,930 --> 01:07:34,930
over the last year is also
terrible in terms of the

1705
01:07:34,940 --> 01:07:36,120
well-being of the people who
work off?

1706
01:07:36,130 --> 01:07:38,170
It must be.
It must be because they have got

1707
01:07:38,180 --> 01:07:40,570
a bit of retention crisis.
Yeah, you know, we just said

1708
01:07:40,580 --> 01:07:43,820
about schools with poor
attention, probably reflects

1709
01:07:43,830 --> 01:07:45,720
badly on the managers because of
it.

1710
01:07:45,730 --> 01:07:47,580
You can kind of separate, I
suppose, the system with the

1711
01:07:47,590 --> 01:07:49,580
people in the system.
Yeah, of course, like the

1712
01:07:49,590 --> 01:07:50,820
inspector.
We, at end of the day, the

1713
01:07:50,830 --> 01:07:52,370
inspector that we had, bloody
lovely.

1714
01:07:52,380 --> 01:07:54,730
He was a really nice guy.
Yeah, he was an ex head,

1715
01:07:54,740 --> 01:07:57,050
extremely passionate.
He run some extremely successful

1716
01:07:57,060 --> 01:07:59,950
schools and done a lot of great
things with school in education.

1717
01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:03,050
He was a really nice guy and and
there's you know there's a good

1718
01:08:03,060 --> 01:08:05,510
chance that he could walk into a
school and immediately you know

1719
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,150
people just people got their
backs aching you're I hate you.

1720
01:08:08,220 --> 01:08:10,810
I hate ohh What did the school
where he had to say it was not

1721
01:08:10,820 --> 01:08:11,550
adequately.
Yeah.

1722
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:13,450
That that there were some
schools that aren't adequate.

1723
01:08:13,460 --> 01:08:15,860
And I think at the moment it's a
poisoned chalice.

1724
01:08:15,870 --> 01:08:17,680
You imagine being an Ofsted
inspector.

1725
01:08:17,740 --> 01:08:20,479
You walk into a school and there
are genuinely really, really bad

1726
01:08:20,490 --> 01:08:21,750
issues at that school.
Yeah.

1727
01:08:21,819 --> 01:08:24,270
You don't have the training to
go about it in the right way to

1728
01:08:24,279 --> 01:08:27,109
bring it up because you're just
an average Joe who's not had it.

1729
01:08:27,180 --> 01:08:28,960
Luckily, they've introduced a
lot of training foster

1730
01:08:28,970 --> 01:08:30,850
inspectors now, but, you know,
six months ago.

1731
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:33,770
God, this whole thing in the
news about the head teacher.

1732
01:08:33,779 --> 01:08:35,529
Obviously I'm human, so that's
awful to me.

1733
01:08:35,540 --> 01:08:37,620
Even though an Ofsted inspector,
obviously that would be

1734
01:08:37,630 --> 01:08:39,450
horrendous to be involved in
anything like that.

1735
01:08:39,460 --> 01:08:40,810
Yeah.
And I've got to tell this school

1736
01:08:40,819 --> 01:08:42,810
now that they're requires
improvement because their

1737
01:08:42,819 --> 01:08:45,189
safeguard is up to scratch and
their curriculum is bad, which

1738
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,010
is, you know, some schools are
like that and it must be

1739
01:08:48,020 --> 01:08:50,470
horrendous for them.
You know, we've just spent an

1740
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,630
hour telling them whether this
is good or bad, like you know,

1741
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:54,729
what's the answer?
It's.

1742
01:08:54,740 --> 01:08:58,229
Easy to tarnish people with one
brush, you know, like when we

1743
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,260
we.
Teaches people to teach all the

1744
01:09:00,270 --> 01:09:01,729
time we get.
We're bad at doing it.

1745
01:09:01,740 --> 01:09:03,590
Sometimes not.
And we go out of our way every

1746
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,479
now and then to to correct it.
So we often talk about, right.

1747
01:09:06,490 --> 01:09:08,189
Yeah.
And we're talking about like an

1748
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:09,050
abstract thing.
Yeah.

1749
01:09:09,060 --> 01:09:12,479
And we normally talk about SLT
in a negative way, but we're not

1750
01:09:12,490 --> 01:09:14,000
talking about all SLT.
And it's really.

1751
01:09:14,010 --> 01:09:15,510
And we sometimes have to make
that distinction.

1752
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,080
Like, actually, there are some
really good stuff.

1753
01:09:17,090 --> 01:09:19,819
And we work in a school where we
really get on with it.

1754
01:09:19,830 --> 01:09:22,020
It's not reflection.
And the same roster, You know

1755
01:09:22,029 --> 01:09:24,960
that you get a couple of bad
eggs, bad bad inspectors, and

1756
01:09:24,970 --> 01:09:27,010
they do all kind of then just
get tarnished often as a

1757
01:09:27,020 --> 01:09:28,569
terrible, horrible.
Humans, aren't they?

1758
01:09:28,670 --> 01:09:30,510
They're not all, actually.
Probably the majority of them

1759
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,109
are quite nice and good at their
jobs.

1760
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:35,200
But the system, but you know,
going back to this point, I I

1761
01:09:35,210 --> 01:09:38,330
think it's a really good idea to
have an independent assessment

1762
01:09:38,370 --> 01:09:41,200
looking into why are the
inspectors quitting because

1763
01:09:41,210 --> 01:09:42,960
actually they've got a bit of
retention crisis.

1764
01:09:43,010 --> 01:09:45,750
We need good in the same way we
need good teachers to stay at

1765
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,830
schools because there's benefit
in that experience and

1766
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:50,350
longevity.
We need the same with

1767
01:09:50,359 --> 01:09:51,760
inspectors.
We need inspectors that have

1768
01:09:51,770 --> 01:09:53,899
seen 52 schools in the last 10
years.

1769
01:09:53,910 --> 01:09:57,760
And I've got a really solid
understanding and are really

1770
01:09:57,770 --> 01:10:00,800
able to go in and pick out those
superficial schools was like,

1771
01:10:00,810 --> 01:10:03,620
Nah, you put that policy in
place three weeks ago, thank

1772
01:10:03,630 --> 01:10:04,900
you.
And actually there's not

1773
01:10:04,910 --> 01:10:06,340
embedded at all, but you're
telling me it is.

1774
01:10:06,350 --> 01:10:08,950
We need those people that can do
that because they've got so much

1775
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,680
experience with schools, not
this high turnover of new

1776
01:10:11,690 --> 01:10:14,300
inspectors every year because
Ofsted is now back on such a

1777
01:10:14,310 --> 01:10:16,560
toxic place, probably because of
the scrutiny.

1778
01:10:16,750 --> 01:10:18,800
Well, why would you want that
job right now?

1779
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,620
No, I'd hate being offset
inspector right now.

1780
01:10:21,710 --> 01:10:22,650
The last thing I.
Wanted.

1781
01:10:22,660 --> 01:10:24,760
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know.

1782
01:10:25,290 --> 01:10:28,980
Anyway, so that's the general
gist of what they've said Ofsted

1783
01:10:28,990 --> 01:10:32,300
should do, I think.
Why don't we go to a really

1784
01:10:32,310 --> 01:10:35,250
quick Jingle and then we'll do
our summaries of these ideas and

1785
01:10:35,260 --> 01:10:38,150
whether we think actually we'll
Ofsted get get get better or

1786
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:42,740
Yeah, sure.
So if you want to, again, in the

1787
01:10:42,750 --> 01:10:45,390
description, we'll put the link
to the summary of all of these

1788
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:46,800
findings.
I don't know.

1789
01:10:46,810 --> 01:10:53,210
Hey, I feel like a lot more of
this will be useful than it was

1790
01:10:53,220 --> 01:10:54,770
when we looked for the
well-being report.

1791
01:10:54,860 --> 01:10:56,710
I think with the well-being
report, I think there's a lot of

1792
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:58,460
it.
We're like, all right, well,

1793
01:10:58,510 --> 01:10:59,800
who's going to do the printing
about?

1794
01:10:59,810 --> 01:11:02,470
You know, it was really, it was
really unrealistic and kind of

1795
01:11:02,480 --> 01:11:06,050
unless big funding got in place
or we had new people in school

1796
01:11:06,060 --> 01:11:08,870
to do jobs and stuff, it seemed
a bit like it was just ticking a

1797
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:10,990
box.
It's not realistic, whereas I

1798
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:13,290
think with a lot of this,
there's a lot of big stuff here

1799
01:11:13,340 --> 01:11:16,340
that if Ofsted implement I do
think would have a big, big

1800
01:11:16,350 --> 01:11:18,690
impact.
What do you think would be from

1801
01:11:18,700 --> 01:11:21,310
this report?
What the offset have to do to

1802
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:24,030
get on to the right step now to
to properly fix them?

1803
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:27,610
It's got to be point number one.
There has to be for me, I will

1804
01:11:27,620 --> 01:11:30,170
not take this seriously if they
don't get rid of the gradings,

1805
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,220
If they don't get rid of the
gradings, I just, I don't care.

1806
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:34,750
I will lose interest immediately
because all they're gonna do is

1807
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,450
just reshuffle slightly how they
use these words and then we're

1808
01:11:37,460 --> 01:11:39,350
just going to carry on.
In three years time, everyone

1809
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:41,250
will forget about this report
and we'll just go back to your

1810
01:11:41,260 --> 01:11:42,050
schools.
Rubbish.

1811
01:11:42,060 --> 01:11:42,900
Good.
All right.

1812
01:11:43,250 --> 01:11:45,920
You know what I mean.
I just, if they do that, then

1813
01:11:45,930 --> 01:11:48,170
I'll listen and and I'll really
think there's gonna be a big

1814
01:11:48,180 --> 01:11:50,550
change if they get rid of the
gradings because that means to

1815
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:52,710
me that they are actually
listening to the feedback.

1816
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,210
From people, it's it's
frustrating isn't it, When like

1817
01:11:55,220 --> 01:11:57,210
we said, you're on the front
line and everyone's saying it

1818
01:11:57,220 --> 01:11:59,900
doesn't work and someone from
the top is just saying, yeah, it

1819
01:11:59,910 --> 01:12:02,020
does.
It's an inadequate system.

1820
01:12:04,260 --> 01:12:06,730
Can you give me a report?
Let's give Ofsted on one word

1821
01:12:06,740 --> 01:12:08,570
review, shall we?
I don't know.

1822
01:12:08,580 --> 01:12:12,230
I I agree with you and I'm
always hesitant before it

1823
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:14,230
actually happens.
The proof of the pudding, you

1824
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:17,770
know, when we actually see
change, it's nice that Ofsted is

1825
01:12:17,780 --> 01:12:19,830
saying the right things.
It's nice that the new Chief

1826
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:21,830
Inspector is saying we're
listening, they're doing this

1827
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:24,130
thing called a big lesson.
Soon they're gonna get lots of

1828
01:12:24,140 --> 01:12:26,750
feedback.
It it can be very easy to do

1829
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:29,280
those things and kind of just
pad foot around it, yeah.

1830
01:12:29,290 --> 01:12:31,550
Well, we.
Elections over, Yeah, sorry,

1831
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:33,710
it's all done.
But you know, a big thing for me

1832
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,090
again, if even if they do change
the one word, even if you give

1833
01:12:36,100 --> 01:12:39,500
us five days, a lot of these
changes sound good.

1834
01:12:40,220 --> 01:12:41,930
Only if Ofsted stays a bit
toxic.

1835
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:46,690
So I there has to be fundamental
uprooting of how we judge

1836
01:12:46,700 --> 01:12:48,350
schools and how we let schools
crack on.

1837
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:50,710
It was, I don't know, it was
definitely a weird report and

1838
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:52,170
I'll just add to that a bit
more.

1839
01:12:52,180 --> 01:12:54,020
I did find going through that
that.

1840
01:12:54,660 --> 01:12:57,710
The report didn't really seem to
know what outcome it wants.

1841
01:12:57,770 --> 01:13:00,310
Umm, because it was kind of like
the first few points were really

1842
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:02,430
big change and then the rest of
it was, yeah, but if that

1843
01:13:02,440 --> 01:13:04,020
doesn't happen, we've got to do
all these things.

1844
01:13:04,030 --> 01:13:06,250
Though get rid of one more
judgement but also if a school

1845
01:13:06,260 --> 01:13:08,050
is required in.
Yeah, hang on.

1846
01:13:08,060 --> 01:13:09,440
Yeah.
Before we get rid of one more.

1847
01:13:09,450 --> 01:13:11,750
Yeah, I get why they're doing it
though the committee of the day

1848
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:14,500
probably trying to prepare for
more than one outcome because if

1849
01:13:14,510 --> 01:13:16,790
they, if they can't just say,
yeah, just get rid of these,

1850
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,040
then all these other points are
relevant.

1851
01:13:18,050 --> 01:13:20,320
It's important to say this, this
is just a committee of MP's

1852
01:13:20,330 --> 01:13:22,270
putting something forward.
The government and the offset

1853
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:24,930
have to respond to them, so we
await their response.

1854
01:13:25,030 --> 01:13:27,900
With baited breath, yeah, there
was a bit more on the on the

1855
01:13:27,970 --> 01:13:30,050
report, so go and check it out.
We're not gonna go through the

1856
01:13:30,060 --> 01:13:32,810
DF E bit after the whole Ofsted
section.

1857
01:13:32,820 --> 01:13:35,990
There was a section on DF E
should and there are a lot of

1858
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:37,470
points there.
Most of them really were to do

1859
01:13:37,480 --> 01:13:40,110
with just being accountable and
just making sure this stuff

1860
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,260
happens and keeping off the
accountable body blah.

1861
01:13:42,310 --> 01:13:45,360
But check it out.
So Hayden, do you think to

1862
01:13:45,410 --> 01:13:48,820
finish off this podcast right
now, do you think that Ofsted

1863
01:13:48,890 --> 01:13:50,340
are about to change for the
better?

1864
01:13:51,870 --> 01:13:53,660
Ohh, I don't know.
Is this a one word?

1865
01:13:53,670 --> 01:13:55,380
Answer one word.
Answer one one word.

1866
01:13:55,390 --> 01:13:56,920
Judgement please.
Judgement.

1867
01:13:58,470 --> 01:14:01,090
No, neither do I.
And how sad is that?

1868
01:14:01,100 --> 01:14:04,430
No, because again, just going to
say right now until the

1869
01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:07,780
frameworks change and the
accountability because that's

1870
01:14:07,790 --> 01:14:10,200
what drives a lot of work.
It's Ofsted, there's a new

1871
01:14:10,210 --> 01:14:11,910
framework for ousted out.
Ohh my gosh, we have to make

1872
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:14,500
sure everything is this that's
driving my well-being down the

1873
01:14:14,510 --> 01:14:16,540
drain because we've got to
replace the history curriculum

1874
01:14:16,550 --> 01:14:18,300
to replan English.
I think.

1875
01:14:18,310 --> 01:14:22,020
I think there has to be huge
change and I think even the one

1876
01:14:22,030 --> 01:14:24,580
where judgments being scrapped
could end up being superficial

1877
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:28,370
unless the underlying ways that
judge that schools are judged

1878
01:14:28,380 --> 01:14:31,540
and held to account are changed
massively.

1879
01:14:31,890 --> 01:14:34,140
Well, I don't know.
Guys, if you've listened this

1880
01:14:34,150 --> 01:14:37,110
far then I'd really like to know
your opinion on.

1881
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,830
You've got to give one one word
judgement to, do you think Same

1882
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:41,220
question you know in the poll
on.

1883
01:14:41,230 --> 01:14:43,160
Spotify to do if you're
listening on Spotify.

1884
01:14:43,170 --> 01:14:44,750
Yeah, yeah, do the.
Police would never do.

1885
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,920
We'll do, we'll do a question so
they can do whatever they want.

1886
01:14:48,030 --> 01:14:49,840
OK then.
So what would be your one word

1887
01:14:49,850 --> 01:14:51,920
judgement for us did?
Mine is no.

1888
01:14:54,300 --> 01:15:00,230
Judgement would be.
I don't know what, what what I

1889
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:02,170
was like what you talking?
About what judges wouldn't be

1890
01:15:02,180 --> 01:15:03,350
how you?
Judge, why are we going back to

1891
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:06,900
cars happy?
Right.

1892
01:15:06,910 --> 01:15:08,570
Well, is that might be finished
up there.

1893
01:15:08,580 --> 01:15:10,170
Yeah.
Yeah, guys, see you next week.

1894
01:15:10,180 --> 01:15:11,810
Thanks for listening.
Follow us on Instagram at Tech

1895
01:15:11,820 --> 01:15:13,430
Super Podcast and we'll see you
next time.

1896
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:13,950
Bye.