Nov. 19, 2023

Ep 38: Heather Wright & Jane Considine on Amazing Books, Boosting Writing & Representing Female Teachers

Show Notes
Transcript

We are joined this week by two extremely knowledgeable and lovely guests: Heather Wright and Jane Considine.

Heather created and runs the amazing 'Reading Rocks' which provides amazing opportunities to children, from book deliveries to author events.

Jane is a widely respected and well-known provider of training around all things English. Her methods and practice is implemented in thousands of schools across the world.

Recently, they both delved into the podcasting world with their show 'The Teacher Squad Podcast'. If you enjoyed this episode, why not check them out on all major streaming platforms?

As always, get in touch with us at:

@teachsleeprepeatpodcast on Instagram and Threads.

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Hello everyone.
Welcome back to another episode

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of Teach, Sleep, Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name is

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Hayden, and we are back with
another episode.

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And as you can see, as you can
tell, we have the wonderful

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Heather and Jane on our episode
today.

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We've just spoken to them and
we're recording this afterwards

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so we can say before we get into
the delving into the nice

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conversation we had, that Hayden
managed to absolutely mess up

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horribly.
Hayden Mother.

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Yeah, I'm going to leave that
little little secret for them.

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Yes, I did manage to mess up.
And you will see how I managed

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to mess up.
Continue watching this episode,

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So thanks, Dylan, for making me
look like a buffoon.

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Yeah, as soon as it cuts, yeah,
I'm sure I make a comment within

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about nought .5 seconds.
So yeah, we might be able to

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imagine what Hayden might have
done.

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Or not done.
Well, anyway.

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Hayden, there's a first for
everything, isn't there?

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But I tell you what, it was nice
having guests back.

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So it's been quite a while.
Obviously we've been quite busy

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with other life things and had a
baby.

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I'm just about to have a baby
and we just haven't had a guest

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on in a while.
In fact, I think since about

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episode 25 ish, we've gone quite
a few 26 maybe something like

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that.
So go back and check out our

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other guest episodes.
We've had some really juicy

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conversations, hmm.
In the past, definitely.

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And before we dive in, as
always, we're gonna do a quick

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catch up.
We won't be too long this time

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because we are raring for you
guys to listen to the awesome

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chat that we've just had.
But Hayden, I'm going to start

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with my week.
I normally ask you to start my

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week because I've spent my week
flabbergasted.

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I've spent my week glued to a
screen, unfortunately.

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Because why?
Well, you see, we spent a long

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time with this podcast.
We have got a really nice core

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following, OK?
And very quickly I'm going to

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talk about how in the last two
or three weeks we have genuinely

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received some of the nicest
messages ever from people

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writing into us.
And I always share them with you

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and sometimes you share them
with me depending on who gets

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them.
But from people we've never

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actually met, I've never met and
we've never seen before who have

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listened to the podcast and have
reached out to tell us just A,

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they enjoy listening and that's
such a nice thing to hear.

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And B though most importantly
that they enjoy and have

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actually got confidence to stand
up for things in their

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workplace.
They they they felt like from

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listening to the podcast and
talk about things that they some

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things are unacceptable and and
they they have the confidence

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now to you know push back and
just say ohh sorry, could I have

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that in writing please?
Ohh sorry could you justify that

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for me please.
And it's really nice to know

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that even just a few people who
are listening their work life

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balance, their well-being is
better because of the podcast

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and I just wanted to start off
with that.

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Hayden Well, it makes it all
worth it, doesn't it?

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I mean later on in in when you
listen to our.

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Interview with Jane and Heather
we we ask about their podcast

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and we asked them about the
purpose of their podcast and it

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made it got me thinking about
why do we do it, what what do I

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like about our podcast And that
you know when we when we receive

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a message of someone being like,
oh thanks, you know I now feel

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like I can do this or I can do
that because I listened and I

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realised that maybe this is were
quite toxic or maybe I can be

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more confident.
That I think is exactly the

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reason I like doing this.
I just like the idea of people

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feeling a bit more empowered as
a worker to be like, oh, these

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are my rights, by the way.
And because that's that's

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something that's been just
taking the Mick out of for a

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long time in the public sector,
obviously particularly in

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teaching as because just because
we live in that that world it

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might be the same in other
public sectors as well.

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So definitely made me, makes me
feel good when we receive any

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message really.
So do write in to us.

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We love it.
Ohh, please.

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Yeah.
And and and I guess this is the

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point I was making is we put a
lot of time and effort therefore

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into trying to you know, put
stuff out on social media, you

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know, make reels, do things that
kind of sum up our intricate

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thoughts and opinions and but we
knew, yeah, pardon.

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By we we mean you.
Yeah yeah yeah.

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We really important messages
though and and really you know

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things we want to get across to
teachers and the algorithm

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doesn't really like that so we
get a couple 100 for you.

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It's lovely.
We get some nice people you know

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some comments are core base.
We really appreciate everyone

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who interacts with us.
So I just thought I might start

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I might make a couple of memes.
There's strange memes like when

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you cut out in a a meme that's
going around like a dog laughing

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maybe, or one of those means
from a from a film.

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And I put a couple of things
together.

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Ohh, you know only about 600,000
views in the last three days.

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Doesn't it?
Unbelievable.

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You know, this this thing I have
made in 5 minutes has just hit

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the algorithm and we had
notification notifications.

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So if you're one of the new over
100 followers we've got in the

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last three days or hundreds of
thousands of people who are, you

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know, tuning in.
Or one of the one of the three

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followers we've got in the last
60 seconds and from these

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checking right now live.
Yeah, it's crazy.

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I mean it's amazing and we're
really grateful to have you guys

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and we hope you enjoy the
podcast and to our people have

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been there from day one.
The OG's, the real customers out

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there.
We appreciate all of you, so I

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just wanted to say that Hayden
sometimes just make a crappy

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meme and then the algorithm will
say thanks mate and I'll push

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you everywhere.
Yeah, and don't make content.

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That takes a while.
So we're going to slowly

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transition this podcast.
Give it about 20 more episodes

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and it will only be means it
will be a big giant meme.

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Yeah.
Thanks Dylan.

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There's no time for a, you know,
concentration anymore.

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So yeah, my week been mixed in
with doing a bit of that back at

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work, obviously.
Still I I still say back at

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work.
It's been 3 weeks now.

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So getting into the groove there
of never easy leaving baby at

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home, Don't like it, really
don't like it.

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I get home, I walk through the
door and then I just hold him

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for about an hour because I'm, I
just feel like I've missed out.

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So you know that's not looking
forward.

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Yeah, it's nice.
It's nice to get home and just

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spend some time and I think it's
nice for Lauren to be able to

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just go to the loo and and watch
and yeah.

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Have some time to not worry
about the baby.

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Well I've my my week's been I I
guess in a similar way it's been

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all baby related because we're
getting very very very very

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close to our sort of due date
and and I have just spent every

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minute worrying at school
because I have a smartwatch and

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we've got a deal with Lauren.
You know if something's

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happening obviously she just
rings me and I'm and I will see

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my my watch will vibrate.
I can't miss it and I've had

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quite a few calls this week.
Typical isn't it?

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Just from random numbers and and
spam and things and every time

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it goes my heart sinks in the
middle of like delivering an

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English input and suddenly I
like this looking at my watch

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Ohh now and I'm and it's just
some random O2O number and I'm

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like ohh God's sake stop doing
this to me.

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So my life is just perpetual.
Anxiety waiting for our baby to

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come, but by the time we do it,
our next podcast episode.

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I'm gonna be a dad, 's gonna be
a dad.

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It doesn't matter how or when or
where it will be by the time we

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do it.
I love by the way, Go jump on

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quickly how you think O2O
numbers are just spam numbers

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when O2O just means it's London.
I know and to me I'm like, cool.

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I don't know anyone in London.
No reason.

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It's just spam.
And you know what?

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They are usually spam.
So yeah, I wouldn't say too much

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about that.
So yeah, I think we could

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consider a short introduction
this week.

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Guys, I know, I know some of you
come up to me and some of my

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friends are come to me and said,
Dylan, the poo story was really

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funny.
We'll have more poo stories in

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the future, OK?
I have my own.

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Yeah, you can join in.
We're gonna have double the

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newborn stories.
My goodness me.

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But yeah, you've clicked on this
episode.

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It's because you want not to
hear from us as much this week.

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You want to hear from the lovely
Heather and Jane.

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So without further ado, Hayden,
do you wanna cut us in?

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Our queue you in.
Let's dive into our conversation

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with Heather and Jane.
OK.

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So we're here again definitely
for the first time and not

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halfway because we forgot to
record and already had a bit of

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a conversation.
We're definitely here for the

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first time.
We have the lovely Heather and

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Jane.
I'm just going to get you guys.

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Well, you know this by now to
very quickly introduce yourself.

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You're quickly with your
background and then we'll go

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from there.
So, Heather, hey.

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Hi, welcome.
For the first time how excited

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to be here.
I'm going to tighten it up this

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time and make it even better.
Yeah, we all love a dress

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rehearsal, especially as we
approach Christmas.

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Dover.
Anyway, I am Heather Wright of

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Reading Rocks.
I was primary school teacher and

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senior leader for 50.
Well, not senior leader for all

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that time, but for 15 years the
loads of classroom experience

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and reading rocks.
It's just something that evolved

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really.
I just started shouting out on

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social media.
About all the things I was doing

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in my school about reading for
pleasure.

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And suddenly where I was
organising a conference, and

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that's kind of where Reading
Rocks grew out of.

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And now we do lots of things all
about making Reading Rock for

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every child and supporting
teachers to do that.

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So nice to be here.
I I love that tagline of yours

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making Reading rock.
It's just it's so simple but so

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effective.
And I see you on socials and it

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looks amazing.
So anyone hasn't heard of

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reading rocks?
Go and have a look.

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It's awesome.
Jane, how about you?

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Hello.
Hi, yeah, I'm the creator of.

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The right stuff.
I'm in 15,000 schools and my

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work is all about helping
teachers be the very best they

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can be at teaching, writing,
reading, and unfortunately for

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me, spelling.
I mean what a nightmare.

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Like I said, we're gonna, I
really want to talk very briefly

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about spending later because I
think every single teacher in

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the land, especially post COVID,
which I'm sure will come onto.

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I look at spelling and I think,
oh we need to go back to where

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do we start spelling I guess as
let's go back to that word

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maybe.
So that would be a nice little

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chat.
Later on, but ohh, thank you

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ohh.
No.

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So I was thinking that we could
start off and I wonder what we

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could start off with.
Guys, maybe we could start off

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with the podcast.
Yeah, let's do that, That we're

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definitely for the first time
again.

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So as you know, you guys who set
up the Teacher Squad podcast,

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we're podcasters and you know,
we have a a message we want to

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get across and the reason why we
do it.

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00:09:43,020 --> 00:09:45,770
But having listened to yours,
I'm really interested to hear

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from you guys first.
Jane, we'll start with you.

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What?
Where did the idea come from?

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Why?
Why have you started this

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podcast?
And I guess, importantly, why

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are you 2 guys together with
Heather?

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Yeah.
Why are we together?

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I don't know.
We're starting this really

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gorgeous relationship together.
I've known Heather for years and

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00:10:03,210 --> 00:10:08,180
years professionally, and we've
always clicked.

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And I've had a podcast on my
mind for a long time and it

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00:10:13,630 --> 00:10:17,560
just, Heather just seemed to be
the right person to kind of

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00:10:17,570 --> 00:10:21,700
conjoin with.
And we started because we wanted

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00:10:21,710 --> 00:10:26,200
to amplify female voices, you
know, 76% of.

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00:10:26,450 --> 00:10:34,160
Teachers are female and Heather
and I land in the 40 to 60 year

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00:10:34,170 --> 00:10:39,460
old bracket which make up, you
know, 46% of the teaching

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00:10:39,470 --> 00:10:43,880
workforce.
And we wanted to be there to, I

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00:10:43,890 --> 00:10:47,300
suppose in this era of burnout,
do something a bit different,

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00:10:47,310 --> 00:10:53,500
perhaps do a bit of bra burning.
We wanted to be kind of feisty

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and real and honest.
And and kind of tell our truth.

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And sometimes we're a bit
fragile, actually.

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00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,830
We don't know all the answers
and we wanted to be the drive to

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00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,570
work.
Kind of voices of you know, we

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00:11:11,580 --> 00:11:13,750
hope you're feeling sane people
out there.

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We don't want you to be lonely
and we want you to use your time

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00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,050
wisely because we're going to
wade through stuff and put stuff

239
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,930
kind of into your ears.
That's going to be handy and

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00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:26,570
useful for your daily work,
really.

241
00:11:26,820 --> 00:11:28,800
Well.
For myself, I was driving to

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00:11:28,810 --> 00:11:31,040
work the other day, listening to
your most recent episode,

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00:11:31,050 --> 00:11:34,180
Episode 9, and even I don't fit
that bracket.

244
00:11:34,190 --> 00:11:38,200
Maybe exactly you're.
You're welcome though, however.

245
00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:41,740
However, I will still sat there
feeling really good about myself

246
00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:45,120
and I think you do a really good
job of that in your podcast.

247
00:11:45,130 --> 00:11:49,040
In general, you make people feel
good for being teachers and for

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00:11:49,050 --> 00:11:52,950
being there hoping to learn
something which happens a lot

249
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,180
with your podcast.
I will sat there equally in the

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00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:59,040
afternoon, marking, writing.
Listening to your podcast at the

251
00:11:59,050 --> 00:12:01,340
same time thinking, yeah, I
should, I should have done that.

252
00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:03,500
Actually, I could do this next
time I teach this.

253
00:12:03,780 --> 00:12:06,650
But as a man driving to work,
you bigging up men as well.

254
00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:09,110
A male primary school teachers
made me feel really good as a

255
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,930
listener equally as much as your
female audience do as well.

256
00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:14,670
So thank you for that.
Yeah, great.

257
00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:16,950
Ohh, Thank you, Hayden.
That's adorable.

258
00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:19,150
Yeah.
And we're just trying to get men

259
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,770
to do some more washing up as
well.

260
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,740
Listen.
I think that this message.

261
00:12:24,750 --> 00:12:29,030
OK, I'm gonna edit that part.
Yeah.

262
00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:31,020
No.
But I will come in on that

263
00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:33,630
because you know it.
I like making these cuts.

264
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,290
It's funny to make jokes and
stuff, but it it is a problem.

265
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:38,150
It is a problem.
We we have discussed it before

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00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,310
and I think Hayden and I, coming
from the point of our partners,

267
00:12:41,460 --> 00:12:43,770
what my partner's giving birth.
Hayden's partner is about to

268
00:12:43,780 --> 00:12:46,390
give birth.
And we spoke about that kind of

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00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,610
hidden work, that kind of work
that goes on behind closed doors

270
00:12:49,620 --> 00:12:53,380
and how society sees work as
being as valuable as what you

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earn.
And I think as teachers, we'd be

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00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,980
really hypocritical of male
teachers to be talking about

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00:12:58,990 --> 00:13:02,810
strike action and being paid a
fair wage and how of course

274
00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:04,980
we're underpaid.
We should deserve much more.

275
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:07,980
But in the same breath going
home and then suggesting that,

276
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:09,720
well, I've been to work.
What have you been doing?

277
00:13:09,790 --> 00:13:11,860
Yeah, yeah, work with the
children.

278
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:16,510
So I think that that idea of he
joked about bra burning and

279
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,230
stuff, but it's a message that
needs to be seen and something

280
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,710
I've noticed.
So obviously we've been doing a

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00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,250
podcast I think since about
February this year.

282
00:13:24,260 --> 00:13:28,310
So we're about 38 episodes.
And although the huge majority

283
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,670
of teachers like you're saying
are women, I do find that it's

284
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:35,370
much closer to 5050, if not
dominated more by male voices,

285
00:13:35,380 --> 00:13:38,030
the podcast world.
And Heather, I'm wondering if

286
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,990
you know, is that is that
important to you that you want

287
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,740
to get their voice across?
I know one of your main

288
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:47,460
messages, but how do you think
that might affect and what are

289
00:13:47,470 --> 00:13:50,240
you trying to open up basically
for the majority of teachers

290
00:13:50,250 --> 00:13:51,540
with the podcast?
Yeah.

291
00:13:51,550 --> 00:13:54,360
I think that's really
interesting that even though men

292
00:13:54,370 --> 00:13:57,820
are in the minority in our
profession that actually in

293
00:13:57,830 --> 00:14:01,640
terms of being out there and the
voice and you know the

294
00:14:01,650 --> 00:14:07,240
ambassadors quite often that
they are male and and I guess

295
00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:12,580
it's a complex issue to unpick
about what that is and talking

296
00:14:12,590 --> 00:14:16,200
about the load of who does what
in the home and everything I.

297
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:19,410
Think.
We as females.

298
00:14:20,450 --> 00:14:23,730
Can.
Continue that as well.

299
00:14:23,860 --> 00:14:27,830
And actually just because it's a
society, it's kind of it's

300
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:32,150
still, it's really deep rooted
and it takes a long time for

301
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,570
that to unpick.
And as a mum, the mental load of

302
00:14:35,580 --> 00:14:40,770
being a mum, quite often we can
take on more than we should

303
00:14:40,820 --> 00:14:45,410
because we just feel like we
should, we need to and so it's

304
00:14:45,420 --> 00:14:50,910
really important for us to be
female voices out there.

305
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,450
And give give, give women a a
space to.

306
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,710
To talk about the profession, to
think about the profession and

307
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,570
and kind of there's a little bit
of bumbling through it together

308
00:15:05,580 --> 00:15:08,030
isn't there.
It's a yeah you know we it's a

309
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:14,710
shared experience neither of us
are are perfect you we kind of

310
00:15:14,780 --> 00:15:18,670
are trying to be true.
What we hope in our

311
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:23,350
conversational style and you
know, laughing at each other, is

312
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,390
there's there's a warmth and
there's there's an honesty and a

313
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,790
space.
You know, at the end of a school

314
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,670
day, you, you, you know, you've
got that colleague who you can

315
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,770
go to and go.
That was horrendous.

316
00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:38,750
Or this particular thing is
really getting to me and you

317
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:44,370
need that honesty for real kind
of impact and change, don't you?

318
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,900
That's something that we really
admire about your podcast, and

319
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:49,470
it's something we really try to
do as well.

320
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,290
And we're really, we have to try
really hard to do this.

321
00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:57,120
Dylan and I is not also being
the perfect echo Chamber of each

322
00:15:57,130 --> 00:15:59,840
other and what you two do really
well is you're obviously.

323
00:15:59,980 --> 00:16:03,160
Extremely knowledgeable within
the subject of English

324
00:16:03,170 --> 00:16:05,970
particularly, but you have
differences in opinions.

325
00:16:06,650 --> 00:16:09,900
And it's nice to hear you come
to a kind of conclusion together

326
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:12,660
at the end or even maybe agree
to disagree and just and just

327
00:16:12,670 --> 00:16:16,640
share these different insights
and opinions without worrying

328
00:16:16,650 --> 00:16:18,740
about all we we have to, we have
to agree with each other.

329
00:16:18,750 --> 00:16:20,210
Otherwise, you know, it might
sound wrong.

330
00:16:20,220 --> 00:16:21,960
Whereas me and Dylan, we
struggle sometimes.

331
00:16:21,970 --> 00:16:24,120
We we kind of agree with each
other and we're like, yeah,

332
00:16:24,130 --> 00:16:26,640
everyone should think this and
that's, that's it.

333
00:16:26,650 --> 00:16:28,720
That's the end of the episode.
Thanks for agreeing with us.

334
00:16:29,210 --> 00:16:33,760
So we were you two really close
friends before this.

335
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:36,660
Do you come in from more of a
professional standpoint?

336
00:16:36,670 --> 00:16:40,680
How does the dynamic work?
Well, we live completely sort of

337
00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:45,620
in different places, you know.
So Heather lives in Saint Ives,

338
00:16:45,630 --> 00:16:48,900
is that right, Heather?
Say eyes, Cornwall.

339
00:16:48,910 --> 00:16:50,400
Yeah, come and visit, I was
gonna say.

340
00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:53,860
Ever visit her because it's
bloody miles?

341
00:16:56,820 --> 00:17:02,230
It's the truth and I'm.
I'm based in Northampton so our

342
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:08,990
coming together was to do events
you know, and CPD training and

343
00:17:09,099 --> 00:17:11,839
Heather used to make me do
events on Saturday.

344
00:17:11,849 --> 00:17:15,480
You're like what, 4 kids?
That is rubbish.

345
00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:21,069
But when we did work together
professionally, we always got

346
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:23,730
it.
And we'd had kind of a very kind

347
00:17:23,740 --> 00:17:28,580
of sort of.
Female sense of sort of kind of

348
00:17:28,590 --> 00:17:30,280
mucking in.
When it was stressful, I knew

349
00:17:30,290 --> 00:17:32,380
when to talk to her, not to talk
to her.

350
00:17:32,450 --> 00:17:35,970
I could read her kind of body
language of like, yes, she's on

351
00:17:35,980 --> 00:17:38,760
the edge cause she was.
I mean she'd have hundreds of

352
00:17:38,770 --> 00:17:44,540
teachers on a Saturday morning
and you know, I was there as

353
00:17:44,550 --> 00:17:46,630
sort of part of the CPD
programme.

354
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,500
But we just always clicked.
And what has been wonderful

355
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:54,920
about the podcast is that we now
meeting each other and getting

356
00:17:54,930 --> 00:18:00,370
to know each other.
As people and it's it's

357
00:18:00,460 --> 00:18:04,110
wonderful because we don't
necessarily agree and we won't

358
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:07,010
know that until we're kind of
tentatively at the edge of our

359
00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:09,650
thinking sort of testing stuff
out.

360
00:18:09,740 --> 00:18:14,210
And I just love Heather's
ballsiness where she says I

361
00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:17,420
don't think I agree with you.
Jane and I go, OK, OK.

362
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:19,760
OK And.
I can only be that ballsy

363
00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:21,110
because I'm that many miles
away.

364
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,250
If we're in person, I don't
think I would be.

365
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,910
Yeah.
Yeah, I need to be told that

366
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,410
sometimes.
I mean, I couldn't get

367
00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:28,880
sometimes.
The problem?

368
00:18:29,790 --> 00:18:32,580
God complex.
So to be told shut up.

369
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:35,620
Really helpful for me.
This is why we're here guys.

370
00:18:35,630 --> 00:18:38,040
You know, we're gonna tell each
other just to stop talking every

371
00:18:38,050 --> 00:18:41,920
now and then.
But I see Jane, I wanna jump in

372
00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:45,340
because that's kind of your your
your background for the podcast.

373
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:48,180
And I want to link in with a
part of your podcast because I

374
00:18:48,190 --> 00:18:50,340
know you guys like to talk about
sentences and I know you're

375
00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:52,700
passionate about words.
I know you love English.

376
00:18:52,830 --> 00:18:55,490
And something we asked you to do
beforehand was just have a think

377
00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:58,780
about your favourite book, your
favourite children's look at the

378
00:18:58,790 --> 00:19:00,600
minute and I can see you've got
in your hand.

379
00:19:00,610 --> 00:19:02,590
Jane.
I know Heather's probably gonna

380
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,480
have about 54.
Yeah, so we'll come together

381
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:06,160
after.
There we go, Loads there.

382
00:19:06,210 --> 00:19:08,280
So Dan, do you wanna start us
off at the minute?

383
00:19:08,290 --> 00:19:10,120
What's what's your go to
children's book?

384
00:19:10,130 --> 00:19:12,930
Because you know, people like
Hayden and I, we're maths leads.

385
00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:14,480
We've got maths heads on most of
the time.

386
00:19:14,590 --> 00:19:17,880
We need this inspiration.
Yeah, so this is hot off.

387
00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:21,880
The press is by Katherine
Rundell, and it's called

388
00:19:21,890 --> 00:19:26,980
Impossible Creatures.
There's a map we get introduced

389
00:19:26,990 --> 00:19:29,040
in kind of a very factual way to
this.

390
00:19:29,170 --> 00:19:34,160
This land of creatures.
But I just want to share the

391
00:19:34,170 --> 00:19:38,980
opening because I'm fascinated
by a story openings and how we

392
00:19:38,990 --> 00:19:43,940
get gripped as a reader.
And this is only short and it's

393
00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:47,640
called the beginning in Capital
letters.

394
00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:53,840
And we get to find out, in a
very minimalistic way, actually,

395
00:19:53,850 --> 00:19:58,230
about Christopher, Christopher
Forrester and what Christopher's

396
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,590
about.
It was a very fine day until

397
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:09,410
something tried to eat him.
It was a black dog like

398
00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:12,830
creature, but it was not like
any dog he had ever seen.

399
00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:17,970
It had teeth as long as his arm
and claws that could tear apart

400
00:20:17,980 --> 00:20:22,210
an oak tree.
It says, therefore, with a great

401
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:28,330
deal about Christopher, about
Christopher Forrester, that he

402
00:20:28,340 --> 00:20:33,050
refused speed, cunning and
courage to be eaten.

403
00:20:34,820 --> 00:20:37,150
It's so good.
It's such a good start.

404
00:20:37,220 --> 00:20:40,050
I know Hayden's in, Hayden's in
year six at the minute.

405
00:20:40,060 --> 00:20:42,860
And you you had, you were trying
to get your children hooked,

406
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:45,470
weren't you?
And that power of the start of a

407
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,870
book making a child want to know
what happens next.

408
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,850
Because you know what?
I've read books before and it's

409
00:20:50,860 --> 00:20:53,520
not happened.
Hey, they're so into at the

410
00:20:53,530 --> 00:20:56,650
moment the book, they're in my
class and they are just totally

411
00:20:56,660 --> 00:20:58,170
captivated.
And it's the same sort of thing

412
00:20:58,180 --> 00:21:00,400
in terms of capturing your
imagination and just building

413
00:21:00,410 --> 00:21:03,430
that image really well.
Letters from the lighthouse.

414
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:08,270
Ohh, yes, great.
Yeah, they just like, I've never

415
00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:09,890
seen.
I've never had a class that

416
00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:11,750
either this.
They get angry at me when we

417
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,770
stop.
They're like, no, you can't like

418
00:21:13,780 --> 00:21:14,880
we've gotta read the next
chapter.

419
00:21:14,890 --> 00:21:17,840
I'm like guys, it's like we're
like 30 minutes into our lesson,

420
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,280
we gotta do something else and
they're like, please, can we

421
00:21:20,290 --> 00:21:21,850
read some more that?
Is so.

422
00:21:21,860 --> 00:21:23,150
Good, isn't it?
Do.

423
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,810
You have to.
You have to hold those moments

424
00:21:24,820 --> 00:21:27,510
because the temptation is to
just carry on reading, isn't it?

425
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,330
But actually to have all those
buzzy feelings and anticipation

426
00:21:31,340 --> 00:21:34,670
and the the desire for more.
One one of the children asked me

427
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,060
and they said why?
Should really cross.

428
00:21:37,070 --> 00:21:41,840
Why does the author leave every
single chapter on a cliffhanger?

429
00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:44,130
Is it?
Why do you think?

430
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,190
And I just sort of left it at
that.

431
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,760
And they're like, ohh yeah,
because we want to.

432
00:21:46,770 --> 00:21:49,190
Keep reading, yeah.
But over to you, Heather.

433
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,460
Now obviously leader of Reading
Rocks.

434
00:21:51,470 --> 00:21:54,830
We know that you're probably sat
on a pile of books right now,

435
00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:58,430
but if you were to pick.
A chair.

436
00:22:00,510 --> 00:22:03,200
My house is yeah, forget the
Three Little Pigs and the straw.

437
00:22:03,210 --> 00:22:06,760
My house is built of books, and
when Jane finally comes to

438
00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:09,020
Cornwall to visit me, she'll
blow it down with their huffing

439
00:22:09,030 --> 00:22:11,240
and puffing now.
Are you calling Dana Wolf?

440
00:22:11,310 --> 00:22:18,610
Exactly, I like it.
And this is what we talk about

441
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,740
the the camaraderie on your
podcast.

442
00:22:20,750 --> 00:22:24,490
This is what we.
We're a safe space, aren't we,

443
00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:26,610
Jane?
Yeah, you know, you know, what's

444
00:22:26,620 --> 00:22:29,660
said on the podcast stays on the
podcast or, you know, in the

445
00:22:29,670 --> 00:22:31,280
listeners.
Ears just, you know, out in the

446
00:22:31,290 --> 00:22:35,140
public forever as well, so.
It's funny with the podcast, so

447
00:22:35,150 --> 00:22:37,760
you kind of just forget.
We feel relaxed and we feel

448
00:22:37,770 --> 00:22:39,600
comfortable and we just go with
it.

449
00:22:39,610 --> 00:22:43,050
But you asked me for one.
Hmm.

450
00:22:43,090 --> 00:22:46,760
And you can't do that to me.
You cannot do that to me.

451
00:22:46,770 --> 00:22:51,020
So I was thinking I'd shout out
about Picturebox.

452
00:22:51,030 --> 00:22:53,540
I love picture books.
I love them right across the

453
00:22:53,550 --> 00:22:56,300
school.
And you know, especially, you

454
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:59,200
know, you can read a picture
book that's four younger

455
00:22:59,210 --> 00:23:02,320
children to year sixes and it's
just like a little cuddle for

456
00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:04,460
them.
It's just warmth and enjoyment.

457
00:23:04,530 --> 00:23:08,010
So it's been shared on our
podcast, but I am a big fan.

458
00:23:08,020 --> 00:23:13,250
Girl of Rob Biddolph or Dugout
is my absolute favourite.

459
00:23:13,260 --> 00:23:16,620
But if you haven't seen it,
Gigantic is absolutely gorgeous.

460
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:18,610
Gorgeous.
But I won't say a lot about that

461
00:23:18,620 --> 00:23:21,100
because I'm going to desperately
try and go fast and squeeze

462
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:22,650
some.
Go on.

463
00:23:22,660 --> 00:23:23,770
Go for.
It Yeah, go on.

464
00:23:23,780 --> 00:23:27,650
I wondered whether Jay might
share this book as well, because

465
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,470
she did read a little bit on on
our podcast in our Wonder of

466
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,890
Words section.
But this is the book of the

467
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:37,570
moment, it seems.
It is all over teacher, social

468
00:23:37,580 --> 00:23:41,490
media, the final answer.
Very and for very good reason.

469
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:45,790
So it's Matt Goodfellows, The
final year illustrated by Joe

470
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,230
Todd Stanton.
A book written in verse, which

471
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:54,090
is an interesting concept and
might put people off picking it

472
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:58,230
up, but don't because that is
what gives it such a a warmth

473
00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:01,860
and a heart.
So Nate is our our character and

474
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,130
I feel like lots of people will
connect with with Nate.

475
00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:12,050
They've taught a kid with real
deep issues and things going on.

476
00:24:12,210 --> 00:24:15,850
Umm.
What is it that makes the book

477
00:24:15,860 --> 00:24:19,430
so it's why is it so hyped?
You know what is it?

478
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,010
Is there?
Is there a thing that that's

479
00:24:21,020 --> 00:24:24,330
just that it about that book
that makes it so good?

480
00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:31,030
I think Matter has been very
brave and unafraid and tackled

481
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:36,590
something that's very raw and
very real and got under the skin

482
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,770
of it.
I think maybe some teachers

483
00:24:38,780 --> 00:24:42,350
might be anxious and I have seen
some people saying I loved it as

484
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:44,350
an adult.
It made me cry.

485
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:46,430
It got to me.
I'm not sure about reading it in

486
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,270
the classroom, but actually it
should be read in the classroom.

487
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,910
And those people who have been
had it read to them have really

488
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,590
connected with it.
And I think that's the power in

489
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,290
this book that it touches on
real stuff that our kids are

490
00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:09,050
dealing with.
Yeah, I just putting in there,

491
00:25:09,060 --> 00:25:13,320
Heather.
I also think the when books are

492
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,620
magical like that and really
resonate and kind of, um, sort

493
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:21,540
of talk in a very raw and real
way.

494
00:25:21,630 --> 00:25:26,940
It's when and and I think it's
because he is a poet, there's

495
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:30,420
this hyper specificity if I can
say that word, you know like

496
00:25:30,430 --> 00:25:32,480
it's fair.
He gets to really kind of small

497
00:25:32,490 --> 00:25:37,140
detail that means big things and
and and and that's why it's so

498
00:25:37,150 --> 00:25:40,500
clever.
But it's it's the poet in map

499
00:25:40,510 --> 00:25:44,200
that I think you know they can
distil things so cleverly like

500
00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:46,000
that.
You know that's why it's so

501
00:25:46,050 --> 00:25:50,470
excellent and it's kind of got
this urban sort of setting, you

502
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,760
know that it's a bit gritty.
Sorry, Heather.

503
00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:58,170
Dependent away.
I think that there's something

504
00:25:58,180 --> 00:26:01,730
that poetry can do that prose
can't.

505
00:26:01,780 --> 00:26:05,340
Sure.
And interestingly, teachers shy

506
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:08,840
away from poetry and school
libraries have a limited amount

507
00:26:08,850 --> 00:26:13,050
of poetry or out of date.
And you know this is a this is

508
00:26:13,060 --> 00:26:16,590
good that it's getting into
classrooms and and showing the

509
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:21,970
power of it and and how Nate
uses it, the character himself,

510
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,350
to understand and get out and
get down his feelings.

511
00:26:26,610 --> 00:26:29,410
And kids.
Kids might really, really

512
00:26:29,420 --> 00:26:31,490
connect with that.
Before you take a breath, I'm

513
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:32,950
going to put another one in.
Go on.

514
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,460
I wanna see that there's even a
pointy finger.

515
00:26:35,470 --> 00:26:39,130
I'm getting really stern.
I was about to say how good for

516
00:26:39,140 --> 00:26:42,730
me it is and Hayden, I think, to
see these recommendations, so go

517
00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:44,530
for it another.
One yay, go away.

518
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:49,070
So yesterday I was on a virtual
author event with Lindsay Galvin

519
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,110
and it just reminded me about
how much I really enjoyed

520
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,910
reading this book.
It's called The Call of the

521
00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:00,540
Titanic.
And Lindsay talks with so much

522
00:27:00,610 --> 00:27:04,100
knowledge and passion.
She's when she writes so a bit

523
00:27:04,110 --> 00:27:07,080
like the wonderful Emma Carroll
who you mentioned the the

524
00:27:07,090 --> 00:27:10,920
historical fiction.
And she really researches it and

525
00:27:10,930 --> 00:27:14,780
knows so much about it.
So she's right in there.

526
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:18,970
Giving you the the facts and the
details with the warmth of the

527
00:27:18,980 --> 00:27:22,250
story as well.
But this story is told from a

528
00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:24,400
different angle.
So many kids and teachers will

529
00:27:24,410 --> 00:27:28,150
be familiar with the story of
the Titanic, but this shows us

530
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,550
the angle of the Carpathia, the
the ship that came to rescue.

531
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,050
And we've got a a young girl,
Clara in it, who's not supposed

532
00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:37,910
to be on the Carpathia, but she
is there.

533
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,190
And there she meets this
gorgeous big Newfoundland dog

534
00:27:42,860 --> 00:27:47,130
called Rygel who helps to
rescue.

535
00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:52,380
And and Rachel is actually based
on an article from one of the

536
00:27:52,430 --> 00:27:56,420
New York papers at the time.
It's probably unlikely that it

537
00:27:56,430 --> 00:28:01,520
was true, but it's a real page
Turner and it's got some real

538
00:28:01,530 --> 00:28:04,630
snippets of the actual
conversations that were had on

539
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,720
those ships and talks about the
Morse code and and that it's

540
00:28:07,730 --> 00:28:11,290
it's a cracking read aloud.
We like nothing better than

541
00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:13,800
reading aloud to each other on
our podcast, don't we, Jane?

542
00:28:13,810 --> 00:28:17,560
And we absolutely think that
that should happen in every

543
00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:19,430
class.
Room every single day.

544
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,410
And this is a book that you.
Can do that with.

545
00:28:21,420 --> 00:28:23,990
I feel like I've got a few new
suggestions now, particularly

546
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,790
that one.
I reckon my class will really,

547
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,220
really enjoy that story.
And thank you as well for

548
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:30,530
talking about your podcast, I
think, before we move on to a

549
00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:33,650
new topic of conversation for
our listeners.

550
00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:37,070
If you're enjoying our podcast,
you'll absolutely love to go and

551
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,160
listen to Heather and James.
Just when we find the podcast

552
00:28:42,170 --> 00:28:43,740
everywhere, isn't it?
Yeah, everywhere.

553
00:28:43,790 --> 00:28:46,980
Spotify is everywhere.
It's called the Teacher Squad

554
00:28:46,990 --> 00:28:51,740
podcast.
We've even got emails and I've

555
00:28:51,750 --> 00:29:00,010
had none and Heather Heathers
had three.

556
00:29:00,020 --> 00:29:03,770
So this is very exciting.
So actually, if you wanna shout

557
00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:07,800
out you know Heather at don't
bother sending me one because I

558
00:29:07,810 --> 00:29:15,900
wouldn't be, you know, so each
squad podcast yeah.co.com.com.

559
00:29:15,910 --> 00:29:18,740
Com.
I don't know what.

560
00:29:20,350 --> 00:29:24,500
It would be really amusing to
receive an e-mail from somebody

561
00:29:24,510 --> 00:29:29,870
else's podcast and not our own.
My e-mail, Jane, four times.

562
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,390
Just you dare do it.
Do it.

563
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,170
Do it about maths.
Well, we're gonna come on to

564
00:29:36,180 --> 00:29:38,110
English later on.
I'm really, really looking

565
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,660
forward to that chat.
But I just beforehand we we've

566
00:29:40,670 --> 00:29:42,630
got something else in common.
Obviously we both have our own

567
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,990
podcast that we that we release
weekly.

568
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,410
But there is something else that
I think a lot of teachers are

569
00:29:48,420 --> 00:29:51,240
very interested in hearing,
especially when we talk to them.

570
00:29:51,250 --> 00:29:54,390
They always ask about our
business because we've taken

571
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,610
that dive into something of
education.

572
00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:59,570
Hayden and I run tutoring
business and obviously we've

573
00:29:59,580 --> 00:30:02,330
touched it already that Heather,
you run reading rocks.

574
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,370
Jane, you run.
You're the right stuff.

575
00:30:04,380 --> 00:30:07,130
Or your courses.
Reading and writing and I guess

576
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,610
the question is, we'll start off
with Jane, you know, just what

577
00:30:11,620 --> 00:30:15,110
is an overview of your business?
What do you do and what's the

578
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,470
purpose of it?
Like what?

579
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,510
Why did you set it up and and
what?

580
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:26,720
What makes it successful?
The purpose of it is to really,

581
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,480
in a very nitty gritty,
practical way, help us to be the

582
00:30:31,490 --> 00:30:36,280
best teachers than we can be.
And I'm absolutely fascinated on

583
00:30:36,450 --> 00:30:40,860
how learning happens and a lot
of my work is around kind of the

584
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:44,400
small stuff of a kind of
improvement to really kind of

585
00:30:44,410 --> 00:30:47,580
sharpen that practise, you know,
because we want to be as

586
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:52,120
effective as we can be.
And the the the dilemma we've

587
00:30:52,130 --> 00:30:54,220
got at the moment as teachers,
you know, we've got all the

588
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:58,200
noise of, I'm not talking about
the classroom, just that sort of

589
00:30:58,210 --> 00:31:04,290
educational noise and all this
science and all the all the

590
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:07,020
reports and then the promise
that the DF aren't going to send

591
00:31:07,030 --> 00:31:11,390
us any more at the weekend.
But they keep doing it and and I

592
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,720
think sometimes you can't see
the teaching and learning words

593
00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:17,740
for the science of learning
trees.

594
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:22,350
Do you know what I mean?
And I think what only pride

595
00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:28,640
myself is having CPD that is
very kind of clear and gives

596
00:31:28,650 --> 00:31:35,040
teachers a road map, 2 sharpen,
what's happening at the chalk

597
00:31:35,050 --> 00:31:39,130
face.
A lot of that work is very kind

598
00:31:39,140 --> 00:31:45,210
of we get to the small stuff and
as part of CPD provision, a Roma

599
00:31:45,220 --> 00:31:49,970
sleeves up and regularly I'm
teaching in class so that we can

600
00:31:49,980 --> 00:31:52,060
almost use it as a diagnostic
tool.

601
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,550
Why did that little surge have
this impact?

602
00:31:56,740 --> 00:31:58,870
Is this better or is this
better?

603
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,050
Just because if we get too far
away from teaching and learning,

604
00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:05,970
you know, like who are we, You
know, that's.

605
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,050
And I feel very strongly about
that.

606
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,830
But I really do enjoy the the,
the very small conversations

607
00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:15,830
about this is good, but could we
make it even better?

608
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,960
You know, I I really care about
that.

609
00:32:18,340 --> 00:32:20,610
Well, English is.
I'm saying it is very

610
00:32:20,620 --> 00:32:22,030
confidently.
It's the hardest subject.

611
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,740
It is the hardest subject and
there's a lot to it, you know,

612
00:32:24,780 --> 00:32:27,450
Even the word English, I think
really that breaks down into

613
00:32:27,460 --> 00:32:30,080
reading as a whole subject
breaks down into writing, which

614
00:32:30,090 --> 00:32:33,550
could break down further.
So as someone who is perhaps

615
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,050
less confident with teaching
English.

616
00:32:36,820 --> 00:32:40,470
The idea of having a really well
structured scheme of learning

617
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,060
something, some sort of
structure given to me is hugely

618
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:47,570
appreciated as a teacher.
So what you do, I think I

619
00:32:47,580 --> 00:32:49,770
personally would massively
benefit from that, yeah, I.

620
00:32:49,780 --> 00:32:52,910
Find it really hard to know what
angle to come out from.

621
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,190
Yeah, and it's actually not
about a scheme, it's about a

622
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,850
schema.
You know that we have kind of

623
00:32:59,910 --> 00:33:05,470
mental models and and visual
models and pathways where we can

624
00:33:05,540 --> 00:33:09,340
show children that it's not just
that we own it because we wrote

625
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:13,660
it on our kitchen table that
they know the long pathway of,

626
00:33:13,730 --> 00:33:16,140
you know, it's not about a one
off wilsey lesson.

627
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,680
We know that it it's about a
very clear specific sequence of

628
00:33:21,690 --> 00:33:24,560
teaching and that's sort of how
does Monday link to Wednesday

629
00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:27,260
linked to Tuesday and do they
remember what happened on

630
00:33:27,270 --> 00:33:28,720
Monday?
Probably not.

631
00:33:28,910 --> 00:33:32,220
But, you know, we need to have a
clear sense of sort of the long

632
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:37,520
journey of learning and and then
actually, what's the best thing

633
00:33:37,530 --> 00:33:41,010
to do, the best thing to do to
teach kids to be good at

634
00:33:41,540 --> 00:33:45,400
talking, drama, reading,
writing, spelling.

635
00:33:45,410 --> 00:33:48,270
There's so much to unpack.
And we all know that English is

636
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,090
the doorway to the rest of the
curriculum.

637
00:33:50,140 --> 00:33:54,930
So it's so vital, I keep showing
off to Heather that the the DF E

638
00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:57,650
and the Education Endowment
Foundation keep wanting to meet

639
00:33:57,660 --> 00:33:59,910
with me to chat about it.
But you know.

640
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,720
Ohh Jane, your life is just so
difficult.

641
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,470
I mean, can you cope with the
the pressure, you know?

642
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,699
Please stop blowing smoke
recording our podcast.

643
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:11,290
I might just go and do my makeup
and have an outfit change in a

644
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:15,280
moment.
I mean bring bringing it full

645
00:34:15,290 --> 00:34:16,620
circle.
You know, you you said at the

646
00:34:16,630 --> 00:34:18,710
start, you know, you are in
15,000 schools.

647
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,130
And I think that speaks for
itself.

648
00:34:20,139 --> 00:34:23,120
And and I can also tell you that
someone I work closely with my

649
00:34:23,130 --> 00:34:26,630
assistant head, when I told her
that we were gonna be speaking

650
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:28,929
to you guys and she was like,
oh, wow.

651
00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:34,560
I've used one of the units from
Jane Constance's website and it

652
00:34:34,570 --> 00:34:37,050
was the best writing I ever got
out of those children.

653
00:34:37,060 --> 00:34:42,989
And that is proof for me that's
that's from school, from someone

654
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,440
on that ground floor.
Using it and it and it's it's

655
00:34:45,449 --> 00:34:46,679
working.
It's successful.

656
00:34:46,690 --> 00:34:50,100
So ohh looking you're blowing
smoke up our, you know, bring it

657
00:34:50,110 --> 00:34:50,590
back.
Down.

658
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:51,449
We're gonna move on.
We're gonna.

659
00:34:51,460 --> 00:34:52,760
Back down.
OK, go too.

660
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:58,010
Yeah I'm gonna come in then
enough about Jane you know right

661
00:34:58,020 --> 00:35:02,800
in the units is like you are you
are the leader of reading rocks

662
00:35:02,810 --> 00:35:06,710
so obviously on your socials
that's I think where I first

663
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:10,750
came across you and it just it
kind of lit up my social

664
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,230
scrolling it was really nice I I
you know I can doom scroll

665
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:17,630
sometimes and I I follow
politics you know scheme and I'm

666
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,160
like oh gosh I don't I'm just
going to get everything about

667
00:35:20,170 --> 00:35:22,700
education is just negative
negative at the minute the

668
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:24,970
strikes are on there I see
people moaning about.

669
00:35:25,050 --> 00:35:26,490
And I'm.
I'm the worst for moaning as

670
00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:27,800
well.
And I followed.

671
00:35:27,810 --> 00:35:30,640
I followed you on your socials,
and it was just almost like a

672
00:35:30,650 --> 00:35:34,770
breath of fresh air for me in
terms of This is why we're

673
00:35:34,780 --> 00:35:38,000
teachers, this is what we want
children to be doing.

674
00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:41,090
We want them to be exposed to
all of these amazing, amazing

675
00:35:41,100 --> 00:35:43,000
authors, all of these
unbelievable pieces of

676
00:35:43,010 --> 00:35:45,250
literature.
And I feel like that's getting

677
00:35:45,260 --> 00:35:49,120
lost a lot of the time because
we're too stressed to think,

678
00:35:49,130 --> 00:35:51,760
I've got to read a book, I got
to read this book, and then I

679
00:35:51,770 --> 00:35:55,000
got a plan, a whole unit.
And you know, Jane, you can come

680
00:35:55,010 --> 00:35:57,880
in with the help in there.
How the writing schemas and I

681
00:35:57,890 --> 00:36:00,800
think what Reading Rocks is
doing and maybe you can talk a

682
00:36:00,810 --> 00:36:03,090
bit more about your purpose.
But from my point of view, on

683
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:06,080
the other side, as a teacher I
just get really excited about

684
00:36:06,090 --> 00:36:08,420
seeing these authors and seeing
these books and these covers and

685
00:36:08,430 --> 00:36:11,340
these discussions.
So why did you start off

686
00:36:11,350 --> 00:36:13,540
Heather?
Like what made you set up

687
00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:16,730
Reading Rocks and how's it grown
since?

688
00:36:17,490 --> 00:36:19,750
Thank you for blowing some smoke
up my arse and.

689
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,400
That's really nice.
Unfair.

690
00:36:21,410 --> 00:36:23,710
Isn't it feel balanced out now?
Yeah.

691
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,990
And ohh, thank you for that and
actually.

692
00:36:27,620 --> 00:36:32,690
I, Jane, will attest to this,
that I'm a massive optimist and

693
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:37,030
full of hope and happiness and
that is what I shout out about

694
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,870
my socials and and keep it light
and keep it positive.

695
00:36:42,170 --> 00:36:44,660
And talk about the positives and
the benefits.

696
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:50,880
Reading rocks for me is.
From my angle as being a

697
00:36:50,890 --> 00:36:54,460
teacher, I think sometimes the
the support that can be offered

698
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:57,620
teachers doesn't see it from
those feet that are firmly in

699
00:36:57,630 --> 00:36:59,560
front of, you know, the chalk
face.

700
00:37:01,130 --> 00:37:06,700
And everything that that we do,
I try to do it with the angle of

701
00:37:06,770 --> 00:37:10,840
what does it feel like being the
teacher in in that school and

702
00:37:11,410 --> 00:37:18,210
enthusiasm rich but.
Terribly time poor and and and

703
00:37:18,220 --> 00:37:24,440
that's what we try to to do so
our teacher subscription service

704
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,690
is is ideal for for people like
you who absolutely want to

705
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,630
enthuse their pupils and engage
them with books and but you know

706
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,750
it it isn't necessarily your
standout subject So what we do

707
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,630
is we look at you know there are
1000 we are in a golden age of

708
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,420
children's.
Literature but there are

709
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:52,070
thousands of books published
every year and it's my privilege

710
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,280
to select some that are suitable
for the different phases so that

711
00:37:56,290 --> 00:37:59,220
you can pick it up and go.
I know this is going to be great

712
00:37:59,230 --> 00:38:02,090
in the classroom and I know this
is going to be suitable for my

713
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:06,250
year groups and you can have
that constant drip of quality

714
00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:11,040
texts that that are going to be
great and and also you know.

715
00:38:12,090 --> 00:38:15,560
Jane said about that bracket
that we both fit into the 40s to

716
00:38:15,570 --> 00:38:17,320
60s.
I'm just going to add that I've

717
00:38:17,390 --> 00:38:19,520
only I'm only just in that
bracket.

718
00:38:22,030 --> 00:38:25,430
Yeah, and but to be honest, I've
never been cool.

719
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,690
I was gonna say that we try to
keep down with the kids and just

720
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:31,330
by saying that I've made my
sound like a real middle-aged

721
00:38:31,340 --> 00:38:32,930
mother.
But there we go.

722
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:39,430
We, you know that thing on
YouTube about unboxing, So you

723
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,220
know, we buy into that and the
kids love it when they're

724
00:38:43,230 --> 00:38:46,330
unwrapping and engaging and
there's a buzz and excitement

725
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:49,070
and it just adds a little extra
bit.

726
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,180
But go on.
Even as a you know.

727
00:38:52,290 --> 00:38:55,390
Soon to be parent that the
thought of just outside of the

728
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,220
classroom for a minute.
The thought of knowing that I

729
00:38:59,230 --> 00:39:03,410
can go to your website and I can
trust in your expertise and I

730
00:39:03,420 --> 00:39:06,810
don't have to sit there guessing
really what all good books

731
00:39:06,820 --> 00:39:09,700
because I haven't had the time
to read them is really valuable

732
00:39:09,710 --> 00:39:11,160
to me.
And I will absolutely be

733
00:39:11,170 --> 00:39:14,510
subscribing for my child because
I know that you know that these

734
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,040
are gonna be some great books.
So there's that personal Ave as

735
00:39:17,050 --> 00:39:19,500
well and then I can also take it
into school because I'm a

736
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:21,850
teacher.
So it's just it's it's a very

737
00:39:21,860 --> 00:39:24,650
valuable.
Website resource to me Ohh

738
00:39:24,660 --> 00:39:27,260
Hayden that's given me
goosebumps.

739
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,730
You know, just there we go, you
know, is that lovely, like just

740
00:39:30,740 --> 00:39:38,170
that image of I am going to be
dad with my child reading, you

741
00:39:38,180 --> 00:39:40,270
know that.
Is and I wanted to read quality

742
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,650
things and and knowing that,
yeah, that's there for me is.

743
00:39:43,660 --> 00:39:47,030
So yeah, it just takes such a
weight off my chest because I am

744
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,250
worried that I I'm not an avid
reader, so I'm worried that my

745
00:39:51,260 --> 00:39:53,570
lack of expertise is is just
going to be a burden.

746
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:59,160
So nice, almost jealous of you
for that new experience because

747
00:39:59,170 --> 00:40:03,230
there are going to be some books
that are your books and there's

748
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:08,070
going to be some real excitement
and connection.

749
00:40:08,260 --> 00:40:14,100
And books that just hold a real
special place that that's just

750
00:40:14,110 --> 00:40:18,380
of you and and and your child.
Yeah ohh, looking forward to.

751
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:21,570
This, yeah, I just want to draw
a line, I suppose under the

752
00:40:21,580 --> 00:40:24,310
business thing because it's
something had a nice thing about

753
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,200
all the time.
And that's, you know, like you

754
00:40:26,210 --> 00:40:27,810
said, doing businesses with
schools.

755
00:40:27,820 --> 00:40:29,580
We know that.
We know the situation of cash

756
00:40:29,590 --> 00:40:32,300
and how strapped to our funding
and things like that and the

757
00:40:32,310 --> 00:40:34,530
idea of, you know, charging
schools for things.

758
00:40:34,540 --> 00:40:37,020
There's always a grey area in
our hearts as educators because

759
00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:38,850
we know we're trying to do it
for the children, of course.

760
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,720
Come first.
But it's equally it's a

761
00:40:40,730 --> 00:40:42,660
business.
And I think one thing I've

762
00:40:42,670 --> 00:40:45,530
decided over time and I've
become more comfortable with,

763
00:40:45,540 --> 00:40:48,210
and I think you, both of your
businesses are really good

764
00:40:48,220 --> 00:40:52,680
example of this is that it's
providing an invaluable service

765
00:40:52,730 --> 00:40:55,640
to teachers.
So what you're doing is, yes,

766
00:40:55,650 --> 00:40:58,070
it's a business, yeah, of course
it's going to cost money for

767
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,900
schools to do these things, but
it's it's a payback of you

768
00:41:02,950 --> 00:41:06,700
stepping up the classroom as
much and using that expertise to

769
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:09,600
help so many more individual
teachers.

770
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,340
To me, that's really powerful
and I think both of your

771
00:41:12,350 --> 00:41:14,950
businesses do that really well.
And yeah, of course it's a

772
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,320
business.
We're gonna make money out of

773
00:41:16,330 --> 00:41:17,800
it.
It's gonna be successful.

774
00:41:17,890 --> 00:41:20,480
And but there's a reason it's
successful is because you're

775
00:41:20,490 --> 00:41:24,670
having such an impact and you
two get to sit there and say you

776
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,120
have impact hundreds of
thousands of children between

777
00:41:27,130 --> 00:41:29,480
you in what you're doing.
And and I just want to say, I

778
00:41:29,490 --> 00:41:31,300
think it's amazing what you've
both done.

779
00:41:32,770 --> 00:41:34,680
Carl, we're not used to this,
aren't we?

780
00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:38,340
Heather, tell you what, I like
all these professional love

781
00:41:38,350 --> 00:41:40,980
being bandied around.
I'm coming here again.

782
00:41:41,050 --> 00:41:43,950
Can we come on everywhere?
Yeah.

783
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:45,100
Great.
I.

784
00:41:45,110 --> 00:41:47,940
Love the squad, repeats the
podcast.

785
00:41:47,950 --> 00:41:52,400
Guys, Let's go like 8 out of 10
cats do countdown.

786
00:41:52,410 --> 00:41:55,100
It's like a mash-up.
Yeah, like foursomes.

787
00:41:55,110 --> 00:41:56,490
Anyway.
Ohh.

788
00:41:56,500 --> 00:42:01,080
Jay what?
And with that, we shall move on

789
00:42:01,090 --> 00:42:06,720
to the English segment.
I must say I like we've touched

790
00:42:06,730 --> 00:42:10,590
on before like I said a million
times Hayden and I it you just

791
00:42:10,660 --> 00:42:12,730
float.
I think as a teacher you tend to

792
00:42:12,740 --> 00:42:15,650
float to a subject we've got.
I know people who are history

793
00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:18,160
specialist and they're just they
just love it and they sink their

794
00:42:18,170 --> 00:42:21,210
teeth and they're invaluable to
me because I'm not and I get to

795
00:42:21,220 --> 00:42:24,150
learn from them And you guys
that we just said you know you

796
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,850
guys have floated towards
English in general.

797
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,730
So we just got a couple of
questions just to wrap up, but

798
00:42:29,780 --> 00:42:32,770
this is what I really want to
sink my teeth into here and we

799
00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:35,040
will kind of direct reading
towards Heather, we'll.

800
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,720
Writing towards you, Jane?
Yeah.

801
00:42:36,730 --> 00:42:39,220
But do jump in if either of you
have anything to say, because I

802
00:42:39,230 --> 00:42:40,740
know that you're both involved
in everything.

803
00:42:40,750 --> 00:42:42,620
Yeah.
So I want to start with you,

804
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:45,630
Jane.
I'm gonna start with writing

805
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,950
because it comes from a personal
place as a teacher.

806
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:48,910
Yeah.
And.

807
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:50,530
And and I'm gonna say the C
word.

808
00:42:50,580 --> 00:42:51,430
Yeah.
COVID.

809
00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:53,150
It's post COVID.
Yeah.

810
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,920
I know it's a bit.
Yeah, careful there is COVID I

811
00:42:54,930 --> 00:42:58,970
was talking about.
But it personally, and I'm

812
00:42:58,980 --> 00:43:00,090
interested to see what you
think.

813
00:43:00,130 --> 00:43:03,330
I think writing was the number
one most impacted negatively

814
00:43:03,340 --> 00:43:05,030
from COVID.
Yeah, I think, yeah.

815
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,750
The baseline.
Now I'm in year four.

816
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,310
Yeah.
And we work in the Junior

817
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,270
School, so I've worked in three
and four in recent years.

818
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,880
The baseline we see is much.
Lower than it had been before

819
00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:18,900
COVID.
So I guess my question to you is

820
00:43:19,130 --> 00:43:25,320
in terms of writing, yeah, how
can we go about trying to bring

821
00:43:25,330 --> 00:43:27,730
up those standards?
What is the main folk?

822
00:43:27,740 --> 00:43:30,500
Where do we start?
Do we start with sentence level?

823
00:43:30,650 --> 00:43:32,680
How do we get children writing
more?

824
00:43:32,690 --> 00:43:35,040
It seems like an impossible task
to me, and I know it's an open

825
00:43:35,050 --> 00:43:38,000
question, but what's your views
on on how we go about this from

826
00:43:38,010 --> 00:43:40,390
from the bottom up trying to
improve writing standards?

827
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:44,140
The truth is, you do have to go
for the big stuff.

828
00:43:44,210 --> 00:43:47,970
Yeah, you have to.
Build a something you know, you

829
00:43:48,060 --> 00:43:55,030
you you have to help children
kind of be architects of a

830
00:43:55,040 --> 00:44:00,250
completed something.
And you've got to go for the big

831
00:44:00,260 --> 00:44:05,890
stuff in writing, but because
you're going to try and write a

832
00:44:05,900 --> 00:44:09,050
balanced argument or write an
adventure story or a bit of

833
00:44:09,060 --> 00:44:13,420
science fiction.
What is happening there that is

834
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:17,520
an orchestration of so many
things that have got all got to

835
00:44:17,530 --> 00:44:20,980
come together, you know what's
the audience and purpose?

836
00:44:21,050 --> 00:44:24,980
Have you got enough knowledge?
You know, have you got enough

837
00:44:24,990 --> 00:44:28,080
facts and information?
What you're putting in, what

838
00:44:28,090 --> 00:44:31,820
you're leaving out?
You need to think about the the

839
00:44:31,830 --> 00:44:34,820
tone of your writing.
You need to think about the

840
00:44:34,830 --> 00:44:38,880
grammar of your writing.
Can you spell was what?

841
00:44:40,410 --> 00:44:45,390
Tell me what the most children
came with a spray can.

842
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:52,110
Because BECU because.
Oh my God, so it's it's so.

843
00:44:52,820 --> 00:44:56,690
Difficult.
So it's not just do this one

844
00:44:56,700 --> 00:45:00,770
thing, it'll be OK because it
won't be OK because why writing

845
00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:04,690
is so tricky is the
orchestration of everything

846
00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:08,170
coming together.
So it is massively pressurising

847
00:45:08,180 --> 00:45:12,170
and very overloading.
So what we need to do is

848
00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:17,190
teachers is it's not actually
about a scheme, it's about

849
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,890
having really clear schemas
which are are going to be kind

850
00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:25,150
of filing cabinets of thinking.
For children, when we're gonna

851
00:45:25,230 --> 00:45:28,260
help children understand their
long journey with writing.

852
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,060
And where their focus needs to
be in real time, in in kind of

853
00:45:33,070 --> 00:45:37,470
that real moment of writing, now
you're right to feel that

854
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,710
writing is hard.
And there are six national

855
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:47,340
weaknesses with writing #1.
At sentence level, children are

856
00:45:47,350 --> 00:45:50,420
suffering from the fragmented
sentence.

857
00:45:50,570 --> 00:45:54,560
And you know, you could argue
that the national curriculum is

858
00:45:54,570 --> 00:45:57,640
part of that problem because
they say to kids in year two,

859
00:45:57,770 --> 00:46:01,040
right.
You know, can you use the

860
00:46:01,050 --> 00:46:03,500
conjunctions?
When, if that and because.

861
00:46:03,590 --> 00:46:07,560
And that's a really sneaky, sort
of Michael Gove way of saying,

862
00:46:07,570 --> 00:46:10,640
right, well, alright, year 2,
can you do complex sentences?

863
00:46:11,130 --> 00:46:13,620
And in the good old, bad old
days, you know, complex

864
00:46:13,630 --> 00:46:16,040
sentences.
With the realm of year five and

865
00:46:16,050 --> 00:46:19,540
six, yeah.
So the pressures high and hard.

866
00:46:19,550 --> 00:46:21,500
And if you look at the national
curriculum, ohh, my goodness.

867
00:46:21,510 --> 00:46:24,700
I mean, you got passive voice,
subjunctive form, relative

868
00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:27,990
clauses, you know, I'm supposed
to be one of the national

869
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,020
trainers on grammar, you know,
and I'm coming out in hot

870
00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:35,420
sweats.
It's it's really tough.

871
00:46:35,470 --> 00:46:40,520
So there's.
And so year twos, because we're

872
00:46:40,530 --> 00:46:42,910
trying to sort of like put the
pressure on of a complex

873
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,190
sentence what they and they
don't have a strong concept of a

874
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,150
sentence.
You start getting frag fragments

875
00:46:50,340 --> 00:46:52,870
where they'd like just lobbying
a full stop and it's actually

876
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,730
just well, that was like a bit
of a subordinating clause and

877
00:46:55,740 --> 00:46:58,910
you just lobbed a full stop
there because they're sort of

878
00:46:59,220 --> 00:47:01,800
they're they're learning is
fragile and it's on the edge and

879
00:47:01,810 --> 00:47:04,950
they're testing out.
And then we've got the, you

880
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,550
know, the other big weakness in
their writing, the run on

881
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,070
Sentence.
And it's not just and then and

882
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,400
then and then and cause it could
be also it was it was and so

883
00:47:16,410 --> 00:47:18,980
later, so later.
So it takes so many different

884
00:47:18,990 --> 00:47:24,020
forms and children will
constantly get into run on ANS

885
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:27,350
when the testing something out
because they want to practise it

886
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,920
before they can, you know, pull
back so you know And then it was

887
00:47:31,930 --> 00:47:36,040
all a dream.
As well as a typical outcome as

888
00:47:36,050 --> 00:47:39,390
well and you probably
experienced this as well as of

889
00:47:39,460 --> 00:47:42,730
children being taught way too
many things too early right Is

890
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,490
whole you.
We've identified the run on

891
00:47:44,500 --> 00:47:46,090
sentence.
How do they fix it?

892
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,290
Comma in the middle.
Yeah that is so common isn't it?

893
00:47:49,300 --> 00:47:52,800
I'm constantly battling the the
next layer of all.

894
00:47:52,810 --> 00:47:54,720
I've learned this I've sort of
learned comma.

895
00:47:54,730 --> 00:47:56,660
I haven't really learned how to
use it otherwise I wouldn't put

896
00:47:56,670 --> 00:47:58,990
it here.
So I'll fix it with a comma and

897
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,320
if you comma splice is not nice.
Yeah, I love that.

898
00:48:02,330 --> 00:48:03,150
Yeah.
Yeah.

899
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,940
And And then.
And this regionally changes as

900
00:48:07,950 --> 00:48:09,700
well.
But some regions, I'm not

901
00:48:09,710 --> 00:48:14,120
picking on Liverpool here
Heather, how very dare you.

902
00:48:14,190 --> 00:48:19,220
But you know so you it's we have
more issues in some regions with

903
00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:25,360
tents because of how you know
they're they're they're spoken

904
00:48:25,370 --> 00:48:30,620
voice is kind of occurring and
how that will kind of just tense

905
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:34,380
is really hard because there's
so much to learn with tents

906
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:38,180
cohesion.
They're awful at cohesion, awful

907
00:48:38,190 --> 00:48:40,460
at cohesion.
I think that's something that

908
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:43,800
people really neglect.
Hmm, cohesion.

909
00:48:43,850 --> 00:48:46,540
Yeah, massively neglected and
and and.

910
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:49,480
Do you mean what do you what do
you mean by that in terms of the

911
00:48:49,490 --> 00:48:51,340
writing?
Is that just it making sense or

912
00:48:51,350 --> 00:48:52,940
is that?
Yes.

913
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:57,080
So it's a lot of cohesion.
Children, right?

914
00:48:57,090 --> 00:49:04,440
OK, imagine you've got kids and
you've shown them a film and and

915
00:49:04,450 --> 00:49:06,710
you're doing some writing from a
film and there's.

916
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:10,190
There might be a child in this
film who has made a sandcastle

917
00:49:10,660 --> 00:49:14,410
and then in the film they've run
into The Cave.

918
00:49:15,010 --> 00:49:20,320
And what kids will do will write
amazing sound description and

919
00:49:20,330 --> 00:49:23,940
then they'll write amazing
scary, spider dark description.

920
00:49:24,410 --> 00:49:29,700
But they won't write a sentence
that says Ben ran into The Cave.

921
00:49:30,070 --> 00:49:33,560
But The thing is, what we do as
teachers, we have become

922
00:49:33,570 --> 00:49:39,520
obsessed with cohesion is time
adverbs, cohesion is

923
00:49:39,530 --> 00:49:42,320
conjunctions.
And I'm telling you now, loud

924
00:49:42,330 --> 00:49:47,030
and clear, cohesion is common.
Sense.

925
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,350
Obvious clean sentences.
Yeah.

926
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:56,640
Ben ran into The Cave.
Hey, there's no there's no

927
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:58,450
conjunction in there to write
home about.

928
00:49:58,460 --> 00:50:02,100
There's no time adverb.
A lot of cohesion is kind of

929
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:05,940
missed common sense step
sentences.

930
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:09,660
So yeah, kids are awful at
cohesion, tense, spelling,

931
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:13,060
punctuation they're awful.
They're awful at all of these

932
00:50:13,070 --> 00:50:16,280
things and but we can't get
depressed by it.

933
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:21,920
But what I am going to say is
once you have your long mission

934
00:50:21,930 --> 00:50:24,080
of what you're going to build
and you're gonna, you know,

935
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:26,880
we're gonna be.
Architects of this.

936
00:50:28,140 --> 00:50:32,600
Had daily teaching.
As teachers we've got to slide

937
00:50:32,610 --> 00:50:36,520
between 2 modes of teaching,
which is you can't write in a

938
00:50:36,530 --> 00:50:41,140
vacuum, you need knowledge and
that knowledge that we pass over

939
00:50:41,150 --> 00:50:43,980
to you.
We can actually do this in quite

940
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:46,890
an enjoyable way.
I know funds sometimes get sort

941
00:50:46,900 --> 00:50:51,480
of packaged as like a dirty
word, but it's it's, you know,

942
00:50:51,530 --> 00:50:54,390
we need to find this knowledge
we need to.

943
00:50:55,070 --> 00:50:57,440
Be immersed in things and those
things.

944
00:50:57,450 --> 00:51:01,000
We can live together.
Yes, we can watch YouTube clips

945
00:51:01,010 --> 00:51:04,260
of David Attenborough to find
out more about sharks, but we

946
00:51:04,270 --> 00:51:09,350
can also live going out into the
community and walking in the

947
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:14,300
woods and living that walk and
collecting ideas, so.

948
00:51:15,860 --> 00:51:18,810
Are teaching.
We have to consider it in two

949
00:51:18,820 --> 00:51:22,330
ways.
Kind of knowledge, experience,

950
00:51:22,340 --> 00:51:25,130
immersion stuff.
But then when I teach you

951
00:51:25,140 --> 00:51:28,280
writing, now we know what we're
gonna build the big stuff, yeah.

952
00:51:29,340 --> 00:51:32,170
All of and we know this now.
We know this because of the

953
00:51:32,180 --> 00:51:37,280
science of learning.
Sentences is where meaning is

954
00:51:37,290 --> 00:51:40,030
yielded.
And that is where the most

955
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:46,010
amount of meaning is made.
So our hard graft and our craft

956
00:51:46,020 --> 00:51:48,870
work has to be around the
concept of a sentence.

957
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,550
Because at the concept of the
sentence level, we're dealing

958
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,990
with all of those national
weaknesses and and it's the

959
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,000
mechanics and and the magic of
sentence construction and and

960
00:51:59,010 --> 00:52:03,230
then this I will shut up.
We were.

961
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:08,740
Wondering Jane do it home line
home like go for it is we have

962
00:52:08,750 --> 00:52:15,960
to be expert modellers and and
and modelling for me is there's

963
00:52:15,970 --> 00:52:19,800
so many different nuance
versions of that and I think it

964
00:52:19,810 --> 00:52:22,720
gets everyone goes you know like
that thing you teach it.

965
00:52:22,730 --> 00:52:25,010
Yeah I'll do that yeah.
Do you demonstration.

966
00:52:25,050 --> 00:52:27,260
Do you demonstrate writing.
Yeah I do that.

967
00:52:27,350 --> 00:52:29,320
Yeah, I do that.
And I think because it's got a

968
00:52:29,370 --> 00:52:32,400
yeah, I do that.
Nature to it.

969
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:35,080
Hmm.
I think it's got so many things

970
00:52:35,090 --> 00:52:37,900
that we need to.
There's almost like 200

971
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:40,360
different types of modelling.
Yeah, exactly.

972
00:52:40,370 --> 00:52:41,460
Yeah.
And I, yeah.

973
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:44,990
And you know.
That I can't talk about today

974
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,290
because we won't go home.
You're there all day, I know,

975
00:52:48,300 --> 00:52:50,160
but it's, it's powerful what
you're saying.

976
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,730
All of the weaknesses, I think
the first step is to identify

977
00:52:53,740 --> 00:52:54,990
them.
I think from from our point of

978
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,700
view as teachers, we need to
identify, OK, what what from

979
00:52:57,710 --> 00:52:59,860
that baseline are we not doing
properly?

980
00:52:59,870 --> 00:53:02,890
And we need to focus on them
because before we do that, if we

981
00:53:02,900 --> 00:53:05,730
then jump into subordinating
clauses and trying to do this or

982
00:53:05,740 --> 00:53:08,690
that, even if they're not in
year two, if they've missed that

983
00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:11,210
step in year two, yeah, that's
where we need to go back to.

984
00:53:11,220 --> 00:53:12,490
And I think that's really
powerful.

985
00:53:12,540 --> 00:53:13,830
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

986
00:53:13,900 --> 00:53:16,460
After the pounds, isn't it about
those sentences?

987
00:53:16,650 --> 00:53:20,930
Yeah, as a kid at school
actually, I was much better at

988
00:53:20,940 --> 00:53:27,970
science and maths and I think I
kind of was victim of the kind

989
00:53:27,980 --> 00:53:31,610
of ohh, they'll catch it kind of
philosophy.

990
00:53:31,660 --> 00:53:35,190
And actually I didn't catch it
in that sense.

991
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:40,350
And it was when I became an
early teacher that I flourished

992
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,150
in that, when I understood that
actually, you know, this will

993
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,970
tick your boxes as maths leads,
that you can look at the nuts

994
00:53:47,980 --> 00:53:51,970
and bolts of writing in that
formulaic sense.

995
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,450
And we we need to take the time
to teach them the rules.

996
00:53:56,540 --> 00:53:58,990
Yeah.
And give them space to play with

997
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,950
those rules.
So they are building those very

998
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,260
firm foundations of this is what
a sentence is, and this time

999
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,640
and.
Kind of what What the word

1000
00:54:09,650 --> 00:54:14,320
Evoque I think is really
important in writing but like

1001
00:54:14,330 --> 00:54:19,420
Jane read on on our last episode
a a little chunk about a storm

1002
00:54:19,650 --> 00:54:23,740
and we can get kids to describe
a storm but if we want to if we

1003
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:26,820
we want to say to them how do
you want to make the reader

1004
00:54:26,830 --> 00:54:29,540
feel.
And and when they've got that

1005
00:54:29,550 --> 00:54:34,280
purpose when they've got that
toolkit of nuts and bolts and as

1006
00:54:34,290 --> 00:54:38,730
Jane said that that whole kind
of picture then they can put it

1007
00:54:38,790 --> 00:54:41,680
together.
So as people who are more

1008
00:54:41,690 --> 00:54:46,570
attuned to maths, I which on
that kind of formulaic you're

1009
00:54:46,580 --> 00:54:48,280
talking about language now.
Yeah, we, we.

1010
00:54:48,290 --> 00:54:51,610
Learn our number, bonds, yeah,
and then we can play.

1011
00:54:51,620 --> 00:54:54,080
Around with those as we apply
those, yeah.

1012
00:54:54,090 --> 00:54:56,790
To calculation, yeah.
And we can see that clear

1013
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,220
progression.
And actually, you know, we learn

1014
00:54:59,230 --> 00:55:04,030
to play around with conjunctions
and we learn to play around with

1015
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,450
adjectives and adverbs and and
the mood that they can evoke and

1016
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:13,450
and then we've given them the
space to play and be creative.

1017
00:55:14,790 --> 00:55:17,080
That makes.
Sense to me very much so I I

1018
00:55:17,090 --> 00:55:20,460
think I.
I I actually don't shut up about

1019
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:25,140
this, which is I want AI to
invent for me a bubble on top of

1020
00:55:25,150 --> 00:55:27,980
my head like a an electronic
bubble.

1021
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:31,550
Because you may have mentioned
this just a few times, Jane.

1022
00:55:31,870 --> 00:55:34,200
I am obsessed about it because.
This to me is like

1023
00:55:34,210 --> 00:55:36,640
metacognition.
You wanna see inside the

1024
00:55:36,650 --> 00:55:39,200
writer's brain?
Yeah, you wanna see inside the

1025
00:55:39,210 --> 00:55:41,540
reader's brain.
I'm actually going to make it as

1026
00:55:41,550 --> 00:55:43,880
visible as possible.
And.

1027
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,230
What we've got to do, and I'm
gonna tell you all your

1028
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:51,850
listening teachers out there,
one of the most powerful quick

1029
00:55:51,900 --> 00:55:55,830
win things you could do with
writing is we're trying to write

1030
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,610
a letter or we're trying to
write a holiday brochure.

1031
00:55:59,100 --> 00:56:03,690
You need to know the big push of
the writing and it's like, is it

1032
00:56:03,700 --> 00:56:07,450
:) or sad face?
Because if we're writing a

1033
00:56:07,460 --> 00:56:12,560
storm, that's :).
That's a whole set of different,

1034
00:56:12,570 --> 00:56:14,720
precise words and language than
it is.

1035
00:56:14,730 --> 00:56:18,430
If it's a sad face storm, and if
we write a holiday brochure and

1036
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:22,680
we're trying to sell Italy,
well, it's :) language.

1037
00:56:22,730 --> 00:56:28,600
And I sometimes think we, we
we've not put in the schema of

1038
00:56:28,610 --> 00:56:31,900
the like, the big stuff.
Like kids need to know what side

1039
00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:37,440
of the street they're writing on
positivity or negativity, and

1040
00:56:37,690 --> 00:56:40,840
we've got to make that as
Christ, we need to be crystal

1041
00:56:40,850 --> 00:56:44,210
clear.
Explain us with and that's what

1042
00:56:44,220 --> 00:56:48,540
Modelling's about that yeah,
it's not just ohh hi I'm amazing

1043
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:53,010
now it's the modeller because I
know I'm amazing actually.

1044
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:56,600
You're but you're right.
You know and and I think you've.

1045
00:56:56,610 --> 00:56:58,930
Kind of captured with the whole
speech bubble, thought bubble

1046
00:56:58,940 --> 00:57:00,160
thing.
You've kind of right.

1047
00:57:00,170 --> 00:57:01,510
You are amazing.
You're right.

1048
00:57:01,740 --> 00:57:04,630
Yeah, you you've captured the
thing that I.

1049
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:09,250
Think I find the hardest about
modelling is getting across my

1050
00:57:09,260 --> 00:57:13,270
thoughts as a confident writer
to the children in a way that

1051
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,000
they completely understand.
Absolutely right.

1052
00:57:15,010 --> 00:57:18,120
I think the simplicity.
Of positive, positive and

1053
00:57:18,130 --> 00:57:20,130
negative.
That's a really nice place to

1054
00:57:20,140 --> 00:57:23,650
start, I think, because children
grasp that they get happy and

1055
00:57:23,660 --> 00:57:24,740
sad they get.
Positive.

1056
00:57:24,860 --> 00:57:25,950
You know they can understand
that.

1057
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:30,220
So we're doing adverts at the
minute in our writing about.

1058
00:57:30,270 --> 00:57:31,700
Positivity.
Yeah, just.

1059
00:57:31,710 --> 00:57:35,360
Positive you're trying to tell
it so yeah, perfect.

1060
00:57:35,410 --> 00:57:38,300
Just start your lesson like that
:) babe and we're done.

1061
00:57:38,580 --> 00:57:40,300
We're done.
That's that is the steeped.

1062
00:57:40,310 --> 00:57:42,520
By the way, when you buy a
course, it's just yes :).

1063
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,910
I wanted to finish sending the
check please.

1064
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,190
You got a percentage.
Of any royalties my children

1065
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,390
make from future book sales.
So next time.

1066
00:57:54,460 --> 00:57:57,320
So we wanted to finish off with
this, but it's a big question.

1067
00:57:57,330 --> 00:57:59,250
I know we don't have too long
left, so we're gonna try and

1068
00:57:59,260 --> 00:58:01,490
condense this.
Good luck with Heather.

1069
00:58:01,500 --> 00:58:04,550
Good luck.
I'm sorry, sorry.

1070
00:58:04,620 --> 00:58:06,030
Yeah, we've had a lot of
writing.

1071
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:07,600
Now we want one word, please,
for written.

1072
00:58:07,610 --> 00:58:10,290
I'm joking.
So in terms of reading, and I

1073
00:58:10,300 --> 00:58:12,590
know I'm gonna bring Hayden into
the end of my question here

1074
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:17,230
because growing up I did read.
I read as a child, I could find

1075
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,850
something I was interested into
and I kind of grew out of it.

1076
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:24,470
Hayden never really was a reader
and I think both of us.

1077
00:58:24,540 --> 00:58:26,110
They hope Anyway, after eight or
nine years.

1078
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,800
We do consider ourselves quite
good teachers, you know, quite.

1079
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:30,680
We can teach well.
But we've spoken about our

1080
00:58:30,690 --> 00:58:34,040
insecurities around English in
particular, and I'm wondering

1081
00:58:34,050 --> 00:58:38,000
what your thought is, Heather,
about being a reader and being a

1082
00:58:38,010 --> 00:58:40,580
teacher.
Are they inseparable?

1083
00:58:40,890 --> 00:58:45,140
Can you be a teacher who is
fantastic at teaching English

1084
00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:48,260
but doesn't necessarily go home
and find joy in reading a book

1085
00:58:48,270 --> 00:58:50,140
themselves?
Or is that something we really

1086
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:52,120
have to work on?
What's your opinion on that?

1087
00:58:52,530 --> 00:58:54,340
And be brutal.
Don't worry about us.

1088
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,710
Ohh no.
Well, I'm kind of, I think.

1089
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,940
Actually, there's a bit of both
in there, because we have to be

1090
00:59:03,950 --> 00:59:09,510
honest that in our profession
not every teacher is going to be

1091
00:59:09,570 --> 00:59:13,600
an avid reader and an avid
reader of children's literature.

1092
00:59:14,020 --> 00:59:19,420
But it is our professional duty
to be up to date with children's

1093
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:22,030
literature and to enthuse about
it.

1094
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:26,410
We cannot ignore the research
that children who read of their

1095
00:59:26,420 --> 00:59:31,260
own choice and we'll attain
better, we'll have better

1096
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:34,580
well-being and we'll be more
empathetic.

1097
00:59:34,650 --> 00:59:38,950
And James said before about has
it been the doorway to the to

1098
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,180
the rest of the curriculum.
But I'm aware that we cannot

1099
00:59:42,190 --> 00:59:48,000
just turn switches in teachers
and say, you know, you are an

1100
00:59:48,010 --> 00:59:52,510
avid reader.
Um, interestingly, I spoke to

1101
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:58,070
Emma Rodgers recently at an
event who is a a Senior lecturer

1102
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,980
for Primary education, but she's
doing a PhD.

1103
01:00:01,910 --> 01:00:08,090
With her student teachers and
asking them the question, do you

1104
01:00:08,100 --> 01:00:13,020
identify as a reader?
Many of them.

1105
01:00:13,830 --> 01:00:17,440
And in the room that I was in,
it was full of reading advocates

1106
01:00:17,630 --> 01:00:19,700
and many of them were kind of
did the.

1107
01:00:21,350 --> 01:00:25,150
But there's so many teachers who
join in the profession who do

1108
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:30,130
not identify as a reader, and
powerfully the work that Emma

1109
01:00:30,140 --> 01:00:34,410
was doing was actually showing
them that they are readers.

1110
01:00:34,540 --> 01:00:40,190
And I think there's a sense of a
misunderstanding between what a

1111
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,410
reader looks like.
We we love a waggle, don't we?

1112
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:46,490
No, kind of.
You know what?

1113
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:49,480
What a great reading teacher
looks like is actually some of

1114
01:00:49,490 --> 01:00:54,620
those big voices on social media
who read a novel a day and show

1115
01:00:54,630 --> 01:00:56,680
share all about it.
And they're up to date.

1116
01:00:56,690 --> 01:01:00,800
They know every single one.
And it can put many teachers off

1117
01:01:00,810 --> 01:01:03,160
from thinking, well, I can never
be that.

1118
01:01:03,230 --> 01:01:05,480
That isn't who I am.
Yeah.

1119
01:01:05,490 --> 01:01:12,180
But actually on a day-to-day
basis Hayden, you read a lot and

1120
01:01:12,190 --> 01:01:17,640
you read for your purposes and
you choose to do that of your,

1121
01:01:17,690 --> 01:01:21,960
you know your volition is there
and in that sense you can

1122
01:01:21,970 --> 01:01:27,290
navigate and understanding of
what being a reader is like for

1123
01:01:27,300 --> 01:01:30,330
you.
It's sometimes I'm at events

1124
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,670
with authors and and people say
to me, ohh, are you a writer?

1125
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:38,890
What have you written?
And I just go no, I'm just, I'm

1126
01:01:38,900 --> 01:01:42,230
just the bookseller and then
we're just comes out and it's

1127
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,430
played on my mind a little bit
since this question's been there

1128
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:50,600
and thought, I haven't got a
published book, I'm not writing

1129
01:01:50,610 --> 01:01:53,400
something at the moment that is
to be a published book.

1130
01:01:53,450 --> 01:01:57,500
But am I a writer?
Yes, yes I am.

1131
01:01:57,550 --> 01:02:00,440
I write content constantly for
the podcast.

1132
01:02:00,450 --> 01:02:04,600
I write content for blogs.
I write content for social

1133
01:02:04,610 --> 01:02:09,350
media.
So I am a writer in my way and

1134
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,480
for my purpose.
And I think when you step into

1135
01:02:13,490 --> 01:02:16,390
the shoes of that character and
go, you know what?

1136
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:21,720
I am a reader, and I am a a
reader of my identity, and I'm

1137
01:02:21,730 --> 01:02:26,260
comfortable with that.
That breathes out to your

1138
01:02:26,270 --> 01:02:29,620
classroom.
And the children find the space

1139
01:02:29,630 --> 01:02:32,100
to be readers of their own
identity.

1140
01:02:32,170 --> 01:02:35,500
And you may share with them
things that you've been reading.

1141
01:02:36,030 --> 01:02:38,360
It might not be stuff that they
want to read.

1142
01:02:38,370 --> 01:02:41,500
You might have been reading news
articles, you know, political

1143
01:02:41,510 --> 01:02:44,120
blogs, whatever.
He's taken back for Maltesers

1144
01:02:44,130 --> 01:02:47,790
packet.
I've been right there that with.

1145
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:51,320
Them.
I think there's a balance of

1146
01:02:51,390 --> 01:02:55,860
coming to an understanding of of
who you are as a reader and

1147
01:02:55,870 --> 01:02:58,540
finding that space to enthuse
about it.

1148
01:02:58,930 --> 01:03:05,520
And then you do have to keep up
with children's literature to a

1149
01:03:05,630 --> 01:03:09,000
certain extent.
But you know, it's OK not to

1150
01:03:09,010 --> 01:03:11,620
have a T-shirt that says I love
reading, but that means that's

1151
01:03:11,630 --> 01:03:14,780
where you know.
Reading rocks and and companies.

1152
01:03:14,790 --> 01:03:17,190
There are other other things out
there that do similar sorts of

1153
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,960
things in terms of helping
teachers like me keep up to

1154
01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:22,960
date.
You know that doesn't where you

1155
01:03:22,970 --> 01:03:25,400
don't have to go and do all that
reading yourself.

1156
01:03:25,410 --> 01:03:28,560
You can rely on people who know
what they're talking about and

1157
01:03:28,570 --> 01:03:30,570
you can get that information
from them and go, OK, right.

1158
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:32,100
So this is where I'm going to
start.

1159
01:03:32,110 --> 01:03:34,500
And reading rocks is something
that can give me that sort of

1160
01:03:34,510 --> 01:03:36,640
base.
Yeah, thank you for that.

1161
01:03:36,650 --> 01:03:39,260
It does make me feel better
because I am still insecure

1162
01:03:39,270 --> 01:03:42,410
about it, and I've always been
very insecure about the fact

1163
01:03:42,420 --> 01:03:45,100
that I'm not an avid reader
myself.

1164
01:03:45,170 --> 01:03:47,530
But I'm very aware of the
hypocrisy when I'm sat there

1165
01:03:47,830 --> 01:03:50,800
teaching a class how to write
and I feel quite confident as a

1166
01:03:50,810 --> 01:03:54,170
writer, ironically.
But yeah, there there is that

1167
01:03:54,180 --> 01:03:57,160
battle in my head all the time
of well, I'm not reading four or

1168
01:03:57,170 --> 01:03:59,710
five, six books a month like
these people that I see on

1169
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,430
Twitter.
So I'm, I'm terrible.

1170
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:03,370
I'm automatically then I'm I'm a
terrible teacher.

1171
01:04:03,380 --> 01:04:05,670
But not the case.
I see your challenge is just to

1172
01:04:05,780 --> 01:04:08,590
for the next day or so, just
make a little mental note or a

1173
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,250
jotted note or, you know, on
your notes on your phone.

1174
01:04:11,300 --> 01:04:14,860
Just jot down every time you
read something and you'll see

1175
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:17,990
this picture emerge of Hayden
the reader.

1176
01:04:18,050 --> 01:04:19,710
Maybe I'll get that on a T-shirt
for you.

1177
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:21,980
I will do that and I'll and I'll
wear the T-shirt with pride.

1178
01:04:21,990 --> 01:04:24,750
Thank you.
And do I have to feel guilty

1179
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:26,850
that I'm not doing?
Long division every night.

1180
01:04:28,500 --> 01:04:31,250
The government.
Personally does, yeah.

1181
01:04:31,260 --> 01:04:35,620
Honestly, Jane, yes you do.
So you feel that girl get a box

1182
01:04:35,630 --> 01:04:37,790
of shame out for you, Jane?
You can sit in it.

1183
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:39,490
Ohh.
Not again.

1184
01:04:40,340 --> 01:04:43,230
I wanna say a really huge.
Thank you not only for joining

1185
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,250
us for this awesome podcast
episode, but I will just mention

1186
01:04:46,260 --> 01:04:49,450
one more time for the listeners
you're extreme patience in

1187
01:04:49,500 --> 01:04:53,110
letting Hayden not feel awful
for his not recording of the of

1188
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,710
the whatever it was.
I've really enjoyed recording

1189
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:56,790
this twice it's been.
Great.

1190
01:04:58,090 --> 01:04:59,200
No, I'm joking.
Hey.

1191
01:04:59,210 --> 01:05:01,720
Did he knows we it's all in jest
until after.

1192
01:05:01,730 --> 01:05:06,890
When our moan at him anyway, he
will be in the box of shame and

1193
01:05:06,900 --> 01:05:08,220
just want to.
Say a huge thank you guys.

1194
01:05:08,510 --> 01:05:11,460
For joining us and yeah,
anything you want to finish off

1195
01:05:11,470 --> 01:05:15,270
with or you can just shout out
and say goodbye Ohh, don't give

1196
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,120
us another.
Chance to talk again?

1197
01:05:17,330 --> 01:05:19,260
Yeah, definitely.
Don't get Jane another channel.

1198
01:05:19,270 --> 01:05:21,400
Goodbye.
Thanks for having us.

1199
01:05:21,410 --> 01:05:24,590
On about.
The teachers.

1200
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:26,930
What podcast?
Ohh Yeah.

1201
01:05:26,940 --> 01:05:27,790
Nice one.
Thank you.

1202
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:28,360
Everyone.

Ep 38: Heather Wright & Jane Considine on Amazing Books, Boosting Writing & Representing Female Teachers

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