Ep 193: School Dinner Menu Overhaul: What's Changing & Why?

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Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teach Sleep

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Tatum.
And today we're going to be

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taking a look and chat about
those pesky school dinners.

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What's your history with school
dinners?

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What's your the?
History here, pal, is I eat all

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of the school dinners that I
see, except for most of them,

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because they're disgusting.
So we're gonna we're gonna talk

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about the overhaul of Food
Standards.

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We keep it in.
Yeah, yeah.

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That's that's stayed in.
What's changing?

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Why it matters?
The bigger conversations around

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food and standards and school
dinners in the UK.

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Sounds like you have a vendetta
against them.

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We'll get into that.
I can't.

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I can't wait for that.
But yeah, the reason we're

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talking about this is because
this week in the news, you may

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have seen it's the first major
overhaul in a long time.

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So the government announced this
in terms of school Food

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Standards in April this year.
It's it's been a decade since

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it's happened.
It's been a long time.

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And you made it.
I've thought to myself when I

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read this, haven't we done that?
Yeah.

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Didn't, Didn't we do this thing
where we made saw dinners, OK,

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for everyone and there was a
certain level where they had to

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meet a certain criteria?
We did, but apparently it didn't

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go too far.
No, and that was 10 years ago

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and apparently 10 years feels
like 3 minutes in our lives now.

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That's true.
That's true.

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It was quite a while ago.
The entirety of our career

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though, if you really think
about it like there's been no,

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there's been no point in our
actual teaching career when this

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changed.
So it's always been the same for

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us from that point of view.
But I can definitely think back

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to my experiences in school.
Yeah.

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Where I, you know, I'd buy a 50P
iced bun and a 1 LB bottle of

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full sugar Coke for my lunch
every single day.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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So I do think it's moving in the
right direction.

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I do think you have to have some
standards, right?

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It's better, yeah.
Definitely, definitely my My

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sole experience of that was the
1 LB bacon rolls.

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Every single every single
morning.

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A nice big greasy bacon roll.
Come to school every single day,

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month, and a pound.
What for?

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You know, stuff.
Bacon roll every day which is

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nothing to do with even the
schools.

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You can't even control this.
I would get I would have my

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lunch, dinner, money for that
day.

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I'd go into school, spend like 1
LB maybe out of 3 LB I used to

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get and on the way home get a
large portion of chips from the

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chippy on just a walk home and
we'd share it with my mates, me

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and two other.
Friends walking, we went to the

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same school, obviously different
year groups.

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So I know exactly what chippy
you're talking about because I

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did the same thing, said
slightly worse.

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Battered Miles bars Sid Mars Bar
on the way home.

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That was a good.
Phase.

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So it was saying here it doesn't
matter what the government do if

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kids are, you know, Yeah.
And buying a daily battered Mars

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bar, there's a problem.
Yeah, definitely.

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A problem, but yeah, I don't
think it's wrong.

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I think it's a good thing that
the government are still looking

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at this.
Can we control every variable?

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Let's get from the offset.
Obviously we can't.

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Obviously you can't control
every single variable of what a

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child eats, but there are some
things you can do.

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So I think it is a good thing
that the government are opening

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this up to consultation and
proposing changes to schools and

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how school dinner at least
operates the food that we can

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sort sort of control of course,
in children's lives on a kind

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of, you know, UK perspective.
Well, look, how many times have

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we sat here and said, I think
rightfully that for a lot of

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children, it's the only hot meal
they get a day.

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Yeah.
Right.

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So.
So that that that isn't suddenly

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not true now.
Sure.

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So if we can control that and
make sure it's a good hearty

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meal, yeah.
I think we're gonna get into a

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real discussion here around
healthiness and also quality of

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food as well.
I think that's really important

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to do, but it is just a fact at
the end of the day.

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We've got it right here.
One in three pupils leave

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primary school either overweight
or obese.

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Tooth decay from sugar is the
leading cause of hospital

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admissions for 5 to 9 year olds,
and only 8% of primary and 5% of

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secondary school pupils meet
sugar guidelines.

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Crazy there's an issue here.
Really, that's that I like, even

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though I kind of know this like
in my gut, literally the sugar

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in my gut, but I also know this
is a spring.

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Didn't didn't you start last
episode by saying you had a

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crunch Easter egg for for
breakfast?

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We're here you go.
Yeah, it's really important.

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Right, OK.
It's really, really important,

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actually.
It's disgusting.

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Let's set the tone because I
think I'll I'll talk about these

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from my high horse away for this
episode.

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I am thinking of the perspective
of I don't want children to end

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up like me, right?
I don't want.

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Neither do I as.
Addicted to sugar as I am

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through poor life.
Choices.

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It's it's a good it's a good get
out of gaol free cards addicted

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as well when really just have no
willpower.

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So.
Fair enough.

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Whatever you want to, whatever
you want to call it, Dylan makes

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you feel better.
Yeah, yeah.

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Your withdrawal symptoms to You
didn't have that crunchy Easter

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egg this morning.
Yeah, I just, I just don't

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think, I don't think children
should be living the same

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lifestyle that I do with my.
Absolutely not, absolutely not.

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And I think also I choked aside
for a second.

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I think that it's so weak when
people say, well, you're not

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that thing.
How can you say other people

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should be what what you want
about?

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I can, I can.
I can understand my own

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shortcomings and not want other
people to go through.

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That that, that's like, it's
like sums up parenting for me in

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a nutshell.
I won't go off in too much

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tangent, but it's exactly that
all the time.

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Why?
Why are you being a hypocrite?

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I'm being a hypocrite because at
least I can control my what?

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My 2.
I don't want my 2 year old to

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end up as unhealthy as me.
Do you know?

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Seriously like I don't want that
to happen.

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So yes, I'm being a hypocrite
for a good reason.

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I know we.
Don't want to go off too tangent

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too much, but just on that note,
I had a conversation with my mum

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literally last night because
obviously Rory goes to nanny a

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lot of the time and and stays
with nanny.

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And we were talking about how my
mum was just talking about

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screen time, right?
And she and we were talking

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about food in general and
chocolate because she likes to

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give him treats and stuff.
And that's absolutely.

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That is absolutely fine.
I'm not against anything in

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moderation, right?
Yeah, but I just, we had a

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really like candid conversation
about how end of the day, when

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they are two years old, the
adults in that child's life have

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control over these things.
It's not like now my my mum

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can't stop me raiding my fridge
for a chocolate bar at 9:00 AM,

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right?
Or looking at your phone.

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Exactly that or watching, you
know, a series for 9 hours in a

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row.
Yeah, right.

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But actually we all can control
that when it comes to our my 2

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year old son.
So whilst we can do that, when

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we give into that and when we,
and I'm not saying I'm perfect

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because I give into it as well
sometimes.

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But when we give in to him and
say, Oh yeah, you can have an

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ice cream or, Oh yeah, you can
just watch Teddy for a bit

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longer, that's us giving in.
Yeah, that's not, that's us

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doing that.
So we can control that as adults

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in the room and just say, I
understand that I want 7 ice

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creams in a row and I can
actually do that if I wanted to

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because I'm an adult.
He's 2.

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Like I, I go into the fridge and
get it for him.

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Yeah, yeah.
I turn the television on and put

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what he wants on the screen.
So I think this just comes down

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to as adults, we have control
over that of our own children.

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And whether we like it or not,
all the government are just

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overreaching and telling me what
I can and can't do.

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Yeah, Yeah, they are when it
comes to children, actually, no,

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because it's based in evidence.
It's based on those stats we

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just heard.
And we either are happy with

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those stats, we just let people
do what they want and crack on,

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or we as society say, let's do
something about.

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I like that as an underpinning
thing throughout this it if your

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only thought is well you do that
as that, stop it.

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It is literally I don't care.
I can be the biggest hypocrite

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in the world and so can you.
It doesn't matter.

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We are talking about other
people, children who we have

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complete control over and whilst
we have that complete control we

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should maybe set them up for a
better life, even if it's better

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than ours.
If anything, it should be be

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better than ours.
That's the whole point.

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Isn't that the point of
humanity?

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We've said about this before,
every generation after the after

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the previous one should be
enhanced, right?

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What we working towards?
If that's not the case and it

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does genuinely feel like, and
this is just a meta point now,

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it genuinely feels like we're at
the point actually where we stop

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making that.
Progress does feel like that,

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doesn't it?
It really does.

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So, right, let's, let's let's go
into a section now where we

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literally, just for the sake of
knowing this, all of us

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listening and including
ourselves, what is changing?

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Let's look at the old rules and
the new rules.

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New rules side by side so we can
see the differences that are

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being.
Proposed here yeah, because my

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first thought here when I saw
this news story was how on earth

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can we improve this even more
genuinely because I thought to

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myself surely last time we just
did the improvements that were.

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On the standard, that was my gut
feeling as well.

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I was like, well, we must have
just.

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Did we did we say, oh, they can
only have, you know, full sugar

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Coke three times a week?
Yeah, I mean it, it seems.

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Well, we'll see now.
So let's actually go through it.

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Let's do one each.
Hayden.

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I'll start with deep fried food.
In my opinion, in my head, I

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that was just bad.
Yeah, the fact that somebody

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exists, I'm like, okay, we met
last, Yeah.

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What we're doing differently now
this time, So in 2014

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essentially it was just limited.
It was maximum of two portions a

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week deep fried in kitchen plus
maximum of two portions a week

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pre manufactured or deep fried
food.

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Yeah, like so there was a limit
put on it.

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Yeah, exactly.
So the change that it will be

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banned out right from now on, no
deep fried food at all.

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Chips, wedges, hash Browns still
allowed but they have to be oven

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cooked and maximum twice a week
for that and only as part of a

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meal.
Jamie Oliver will be.

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Fine.
Tears of joy because that's all

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I can think of.
Because that was my era of like

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when when the Food Standards
changed back when I was at

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school was like Jamie Oliver
basically being like, can we

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stop giving chips to kids for
breakfast, lunch and dinner at

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all times every day in school
when we could just not.

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Yeah.
Absolutely.

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But if just deep fried food in
general, I think that is a good

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thing, right?
Definitely.

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We don't need can.
Oh, the kids won't get deep

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fried food?
OK.

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Yeah, yeah, I'm going to do this
analogy one more time as well.

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Sorry.
So you can stop.

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No, Jamie.
So we can like stop doing it and

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people can just think about
themselves.

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If you're thinking.
Well, I bet you have some deep

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fried food.
Yes, I do.

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00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,600
Yes, I do have deep fried food
sometimes.

228
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,960
And the kids will probably still
have it sometimes at home, but

229
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,200
we can control it at school, so
we should.

230
00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,000
Is it good for them?
No.

231
00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,720
So let's just not give it to
them there.

232
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,680
Genuinely I think that's a good
thing.

233
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,360
Ban deep fried food at schools.
Cool, move on, go on.

234
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,080
Hey the next one.
Desserts and sweet stuff.

235
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,920
So 2014 confectionery and
chocolate coated products were

236
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,160
banned, but cakes, biscuits,
desserts and ice cream were

237
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,400
allowed.
As long as they were low in fat

238
00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:16,120
slash sugar, there was no limit
on how often they could be

239
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,440
served that.
Genuinely.

240
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,760
Now, just to be fair, that seems
reasonable.

241
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,280
Yeah, to me that that, that that
rule seems reasonable.

242
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:24,440
So I'm interested to see what.
They're doing.

243
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,280
I think when we go through this,
we'll find that a lot of the

244
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,240
changes that were made in 2014
were reasonable given the

245
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,280
initial context of they were of
like of what was allowed, of

246
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,240
what was allowed.
OK, the comparison of what was

247
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,840
allowed to 2014 was a good move
in the right direction.

248
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,800
What I'm saying here though is
that rule seems fair enough,

249
00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:41,720
ongoing.
Like, I wouldn't look at that

250
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,720
role and think, oh, that's bad.
Sure, let's have a look at what

251
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:44,800
it is now you can see if you
that change.

252
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,000
So what's it changing to?
It's changed to So now it will

253
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,200
be cakes and desserts limited to
once per week.

254
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,000
Any dessert served must contain
at least 50% fruit or veg and no

255
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,880
confectionery or chocolate.
Fair enough.

256
00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,480
Ice creams, waffles, high sugar
products removed entirely at

257
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,320
primary.
Fruit must be the only dessert

258
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,080
at least once a week.
OK.

259
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,080
So to me, it seems like they
they did, they did this, they

260
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,840
pulled it in, they pulled around
and they've just gone a bit

261
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:06,600
further.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

262
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:07,480
Snipped that in the butt a bit
more.

263
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,800
Yeah, because you've still got,
you know, you've still got

264
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,280
desserts.
It's just once a week now.

265
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,040
Yeah, mainly has to be fruit and
veg high sugar.

266
00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,520
A lot of ice cream.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

267
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:17,600
OK.
All right.

268
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,000
Give them some ice cream.
Yeah.

269
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,800
When you were with them for most
of the time.

270
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:21,800
Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah.

271
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,160
Do you know what?
Now I've seen that again.

272
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,000
Seems seems fair enough.
Like I don't think we can ever

273
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,280
moan that as a school we're
saying don't give them a sugary

274
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,080
biscuit.
I don't think you can have it.

275
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:37,920
You'd be mumble.
Oh, but it's nice for them.

276
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,240
It might be nice for them.
And you know what, it might even

277
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:41,840
be.
It's obviously not even might.

278
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,400
It's obviously fine.
A kid has that every now and

279
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:43,840
then.
Yeah.

280
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,760
But yeah, like that, Yeah, it
seems reasonable.

281
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,760
To kids also like throwing pens
when they run out at their at

282
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:51,400
their.
Friends Heads.

283
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,920
In the middle of class because
it's funny yeah I'm not gonna

284
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:55,360
let them do it though.
Genuine.

285
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,520
There's so many things that are
nice and I think as parents, as

286
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,360
teachers, as as people that are
in charge of children, sometimes

287
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:02,960
you just do just have to make
decisions.

288
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,520
Yeah, that they're not gonna
like, but you know, it's better

289
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:06,960
than for them in the long.
Run and they still get it

290
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:08,320
sometimes in the week.
Exactly.

291
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:09,640
It's not even that bad in in my
head.

292
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,440
My experience with dinners,
school dinners, by the way, was

293
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,920
that the dessert was basically
always fruit was an option.

294
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,400
So it's saying here it needs to
be only fruit once a week so

295
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,120
they're forced to eat.
Yeah, what's wrong with that?

296
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,760
Yeah, nice.
Got some fruit drinks.

297
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,400
Let's do this one. 2014 fruit
juice was permitted when that

298
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,760
was introduced.
Water and milk required to be

299
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:27,800
able available.
Cool.

300
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,840
Now fruit juice will be banned
due to high sugar content.

301
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,920
Primary schools only water,
unsweetened milk or plant based

302
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,840
milk and in secondary also sugar
free flavoured drinks.

303
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,640
Still fruit flavoured drinks
with no added sugar.

304
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:41,520
Tea and coffee available as
well.

305
00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:44,560
Again, can we complain?
Can we complain?

306
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:47,080
Juice isn't?
I know for a fact in in most of

307
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,120
the day you're not allowed juice
in your lessons.

308
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,560
Yeah it's sticky if it's
spilled.

309
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:51,760
Like it's more of a practical
reason.

310
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,080
I personally don't mind if a
kids got some juice through

311
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,520
their dinner though.
No, I thought this one seemed a

312
00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,320
bit harsh but I but I do think
it addresses maybe a a wider

313
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,600
misconception.
I know that teaching in year 4

314
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,040
when we talk about teeth and
stuff it's always shocked to

315
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,080
find out that fruit juice was
like even remotely not just pure

316
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:10,560
healthy sure.
I mean like when they found out

317
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,160
orange juice was packed full of
natural sugars.

318
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,720
Yeah.
And and we, we, we're making a

319
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,560
difference here between fruit
juice and squash.

320
00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:18,160
Yeah, definitely I'm.
Very much.

321
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,640
I'm very much taking this fruit
juice as in literal juice from

322
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:21,760
like.
Yeah, it'd be interesting to get

323
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,120
more.
Maybe we dive a bit more into

324
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,560
that and then come back to the
future because it I wasn't even

325
00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:28,040
mentioned cordial squash and I
think it might be including that

326
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:28,480
as well.
It'd be.

327
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:29,920
Interesting to see.
Be very interesting.

328
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,440
Because primary schools, it says
only water, milk, that's it.

329
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,240
So it must be if it's banning
squash as well.

330
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,440
I just think a bit of
blackcurrant squash is all

331
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,040
right.
Yeah.

332
00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,760
Like especially if it's that
really, really, really low sugar

333
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,800
stuff you can get now.
Yeah, because you're allowed in

334
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:44,560
secondary school.
So they're still fruit flavoured

335
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:46,400
drinks, flavoured sugar free
flavoured drinks.

336
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:48,040
Yeah, yeah.
Is it?

337
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,000
Would it be OK for a price?
I think it'd be OK, but I reckon

338
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,160
there's probably a good reason
behind it.

339
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,600
It might even just be down to
the fact that so many children

340
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,280
are so quickly just not
consuming water in their diet

341
00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,400
and saying I don't like water
because they're always having

342
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,560
something like but.
But squash is 80% washer.

343
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,640
I know, but like they.
Aren't hydrating them it's.

344
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,920
Probably still good to just, you
know, make people like.

345
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,000
But for those children, but and
what I'm saying is they're going

346
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,920
to be a bunch of children now
who are just like I won't drink

347
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,800
then and that's worse maybe and
then because I haven't got the

348
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:13,640
option to have the squash,
which.

349
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,560
They, yeah, I think, do you know
what that point I had to have?

350
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:16,480
Squash.
I think we should come back to

351
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,440
this point in general as well a
few times, because I think there

352
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,920
is a wider point here that we
should talk about more, which is

353
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,440
will any of these, this stuff
make people make children not do

354
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:25,920
X?
Well, because I'm, I'm thinking

355
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,560
as well of a lot of children out
there, especially neurodivergent

356
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:31,840
children who are very specific
in their textures and what they

357
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:37,360
eat and their repetitions who
might be caught up in this as as

358
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:38,640
blanket rules in primary
schools.

359
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,080
Actually, it means they're no
longer able to eat those

360
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:42,600
dinners.
That's clearly an issue and we

361
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,440
clearly need to, you need to
provide children with some with

362
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,040
some kind of sustenance.
Do you know what I mean?

363
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,560
I, I agree.
And I reckon obviously we're

364
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:49,800
just going over the headline
stuff right now.

365
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,520
I think it would be ludicrous
for those cases not to be

366
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,200
considered in terms of like.
How can you provide for just one

367
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,720
like?
Here's this just one plate of

368
00:13:58,720 --> 00:13:59,680
food.
Well, how does that already

369
00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:00,400
happen?
Do you know what I?

370
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,600
Mean, I think, I think probably
it's it's already the way

371
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,280
dinners are now it's it's
suitable.

372
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:06,360
And if not, they have packed
lunch.

373
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,400
Maybe more more children will be
forced to be have packed lunch,

374
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,080
but it'll be more of an issue.
You know, like if you're free

375
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,160
school meals, you have to
provide food for that child if

376
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,160
it's within their needs, like
where's the line?

377
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,200
Like you have to provide for
them.

378
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:19,800
I agree.
I think it's tough and I think

379
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,800
schools are already having those
tough conversations.

380
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,200
Yeah, it's like a lot streamline
that.

381
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,160
Even if it just happens, even if
it does end up happening a bit

382
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,000
more, I still think schools are
going to have to consider those

383
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,040
tough outlying situations
genuinely.

384
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:29,920
Let's crack on, let's keep
going.

385
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,480
So vegetables in 2014, schools
had to provide vegetables and

386
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,480
salad as an option across the
week, but not necessarily with

387
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,880
every meal.
From now on, vegetables or salad

388
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,000
mandatory with every single main
meal including grab and go items

389
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,880
like sandwiches, baked potatoes,
pizza, baked beans.

390
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,560
Pureed veg and potatoes do not
count as vegetables.

391
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,760
I couldn't be more behind that.
Definitely absolutely right.

392
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,840
Get the vegetables on the plate
for the children all the time.

393
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,960
If they're picky and don't eat
them, OK, but some of them will

394
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:57,440
get them on the plate for the
kids.

395
00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:58,920
Absolutely.
Expose them to them.

396
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,000
They'll try, they'll try them.
A lot of kids will realise that

397
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,760
they're quite nice.
Exactly, exactly.

398
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:03,880
Do you?
Know what it's what I needed

399
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,760
when I was younger yeah, it's
what I needed I was on free

400
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:10,200
school meals and I was had my
mom was a single parent just.

401
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,800
She would be the first person to
say didn't really understand

402
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,000
what a balanced healthy diet was
for a child.

403
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,680
And for me, she's want me to
eat.

404
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,560
That was the thing she only
thought about ever was just

405
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,040
needed to eat.
I was a really fussy eater.

406
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:21,520
Yeah, no surprises there.
Why?

407
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,040
I just brought up neurodivergent
children being really picky

408
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:25,240
about their food.
That's what I literally

409
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,640
experienced myself.
And my mom was told by the

410
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,120
doctors just eating better than
not eating.

411
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,480
Got to the point where they were
just like, just give him food he

412
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,640
will eat that's better for him.
I got a school dinner.

413
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,680
It had vegetables on the plate
I'd never seen before.

414
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,840
I went home to my mum like,
well, they fed me these weird

415
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:40,920
things.
I didn't want to eat them very

416
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,240
much.
It's still introducing green

417
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,520
trees.
Yeah, exactly that.

418
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,520
I ended up eating them still.
I eat them now.

419
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,400
Do you know what I mean?
It was a good thing that was on

420
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,000
my plate.
Yeah.

421
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,640
Even if in the moment it made me
think, oh, what's this?

422
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,640
I had to be exposed to it.
Yeah, absolutely.

423
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,040
If schools are places of
exploration and and you know,

424
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,560
learning, then Yep, why can't
we?

425
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,080
Precisely Food.
So that's vegetables, next one's

426
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,800
fibre and whole grain.
So 2014 starchy food required

427
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,200
daily bread, pasta, rice,
potatoes etcetera.

428
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,000
But no rules on whole grain
content.

429
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,600
Now at least half of all pasta
and rice must be brown, whole

430
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,320
wheat or fibre enriched.
All bread must contain at least

431
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,080
three grammes of fibre per 100
grammes.

432
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,200
Some really specific rules here.
Only whole meal seeded and 5050

433
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,400
varieties.
No added fat and bread.

434
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,040
All I'm going to say, I don't
think we should talk too much

435
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,200
about this because we are not
qualified fitness people or in

436
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,920
terms of dietitians or anything
like that.

437
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,480
But all I will say is that to
me, when I look at specific

438
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,720
rules like this, it's it must.
If it's grounded in research and

439
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,360
it's better for the health of a
child, then I'm OK with that.

440
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,360
Yep.
Sounds good to me.

441
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:38,440
Absolutely.
I think so as well.

442
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,840
Cool protein and meat.
Let's go on. 2014 meat or

443
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,720
poultry required on at least
three days per week.

444
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,080
Processed meat limited but still
regularly available.

445
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,920
Now, pulses like chickpeas,
lentils and beans count as a

446
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,680
main protein source alongside
meat.

447
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,200
By the way, don't get if that
triggers you, grow up.

448
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,200
They just are.
That's just a fact.

449
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,760
They're packed with protein.
You don't get the same from

450
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:00,560
Carol.
No dealer.

451
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,760
We, we the whole the whole of
human history, we've been eating

452
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,359
ox.
OK, OK.

453
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:06,960
But this is all.
This is all we learned.

454
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,240
It's still protein.
Jesus.

455
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,640
Honest to God.
Must appear at least once a week

456
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,800
across all menu options.
Only one processed meat item per

457
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,079
week, like sausages, ham, bacon
and burgers.

458
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:19,160
Or one battered, breaded bread
crumbed pastry item.

459
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,119
Yeah, I, I look at that and I
think why have we stopped at

460
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,760
1:00 per week?
Like what?

461
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,599
What only one process the week?
Well, why why is it going down

462
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:28,640
to 1?
Because it's bad for them.

463
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,960
Why have we got one then?
Yeah, why is 1 on there?

464
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,560
Honestly, that's probably the
best analogy for why I think the

465
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,360
2014 thing came in from whatever
it was before that.

466
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:37,400
Sure, because it's a stepping
stone.

467
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:38,120
Yeah.
Do you know what?

468
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:39,280
In 10 years, I reckon we'll ban
that.

469
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,320
Yeah, let's push back.
Yeah, potentially, potentially,

470
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,600
because if you look at the list
as well, sausages, bacon,

471
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:45,640
burgers.
Yeah.

472
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,160
Very much a key part of most
people's diets.

473
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:50,680
Like.
So if you're, if you're just a

474
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,040
parent looking at this and
you're thinking why can't they

475
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:54,720
like.
And it's probably reasonable, by

476
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:55,080
the way.
Yeah.

477
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,640
Why can't Rory has sausages?
He has sausages, Yeah.

478
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,440
Do we have sausages every day?
No, But he does eat sausages.

479
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,840
He's had a sausage.
And again, it's that classic

480
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,240
thing of my kids done it and
they're fine.

481
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:06,280
OK.
Irrelevant.

482
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,840
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
But it seems odd to me to just

483
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,720
go to 1 like that.
That seems weird.

484
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:12,640
Maybe, like you're saying, it's
a step.

485
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,600
In I think so yeah, it just has
to be reasonable, isn't it like

486
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,400
some parents will be like, I
can't I can't go.

487
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,880
This is such a huge change to
me.

488
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:19,760
Whereas this might just bridge
the change a little bit and

489
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,880
Start learning and we learn more
like I think there's so much

490
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,160
more research out there now
about like how bad some foods

491
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,400
are.
I reckon they'll bacon bacon.

492
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,920
Yeah, is what I've learned.
I feel like I've learned in the

493
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,880
last couple of years in terms of
like how how bad shop bought

494
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,120
bacon is for you and the links
it has to such horrible disease

495
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,640
and things.
But ultra processed foods and

496
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,760
we'll come to that again
probably later is like processed

497
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,160
foods in general I think is
something that I can feel the

498
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,040
battle ramping up more and more
and more in society.

499
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:45,240
I feel like I hear about it more
often.

500
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,720
It's often more on social media.
People are more aware of

501
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,840
processed foods and how
genuinely absolutely awful they

502
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,040
are for us.
So I can imagine that even in

503
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,360
five years will be something
that gets reviewed again.

504
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:57,880
And it's like we are just
outright banning processed foods

505
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,040
like this because it's it's
dreadful.

506
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,720
There was a book, I didn't read
all of it.

507
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,480
I read about half of it by Chris
van Tuliken.

508
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,880
I think he pronounced his name,
but he's, I think he's one of

509
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,360
the twin doctors you see
sometimes on line 2 blokes.

510
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,320
And they do, they do TV shows,
do a lot of BBC about health

511
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,720
and, and it's called ultra
processed people.

512
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,040
And it's about his journey
through basically understanding

513
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,960
about processed foods, etcetera,
and how horrendous they are for

514
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,880
us and how completely normalised
it is to, to basically become

515
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,440
just indoctrinated into eating
them constantly.

516
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,000
And, and the front cover is
perhaps, you know, provocatively

517
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,200
is a loaf of bread because bread
is horrendously.

518
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,760
If you just bread, like you just
buy a loaf of King's milk,

519
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,160
right?
If you look at the actual

520
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,400
ingredients, it's horrendously
processed.

521
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,360
Yeah, because bread should just
be three ingredients.

522
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,400
Water, flour, yeast.
And isn't it a thing that is

523
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,400
even worse in America because
that bread will last for like a

524
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,240
month or something?
At least our bread goes off and

525
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,440
on.
Four days if your bread doesn't

526
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,240
mould after, after, you know,
two or three weeks, yeah.

527
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,320
What?
It's not bread, mate.

528
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,640
It ain't bread.
But anyway, that's if anyone's

529
00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,400
interested in learning more
about processed food, that book

530
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,560
is is very, very good, easy to
read as well.

531
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,000
And I do just think that will
keep rising.

532
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,720
Hopefully it's, you know, it's a
good thing we've come.

533
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:05,880
It's great because do you know
what?

534
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,080
I read it and I was, it was
awful.

535
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,200
Then I carried on eating
process.

536
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:09,320
Yeah.
So we need, we need more of a

537
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:10,000
push.
And he has to just.

538
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,280
Reduce it a little bit For me, I
think I have genuine because I

539
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,320
eat quite a lot of bacon.
I love a bacon sandwich or bacon

540
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,520
roll like classic Go to lunch if
I'm just hungry.

541
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,760
I'm a crunchy egg for breakfast.
Not reduce that.

542
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,440
No, no, we ignore.
We did.

543
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:21,400
You ever reduce that?
Chocolate.

544
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,040
We ignore chocolate, but I
haven't really.

545
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,560
Really, really, really care
about my health.

546
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,240
I don't know there's a process
bacon anymore.

547
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,840
Past that, chocolate.
No, no, I'm not taking too much.

548
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,080
I always say I'm absolutely,
absolutely a victim of terrible

549
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,520
cell control and I eat so much
processed food and all that sort

550
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,240
of stuff.
But I definitely think even if

551
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,560
it's just 10%, I have already
actually subliminally reduced

552
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,400
that just based on how like
scared I am.

553
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:42,560
But all this stuff I keep saying
have.

554
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,200
You found that because I, I, I,
Maybe you were more of a normal

555
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,680
person beforehand, but when?
Since we had Rory, especially

556
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,600
dinners.
Since we had Rory, Yeah.

557
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:52,880
Just no.
Just fueling.

558
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,600
That fire a bit more.
Me and my partner, which is not

559
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,240
Hayden, had Rory.
I found that our dinners in

560
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,440
general are way more
consistently nourishing and

561
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,360
better in terms of we will cook,
we will just cook from scratch,

562
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,760
more food that we just all eat
together because we want to eat

563
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,760
together with him.
So then we're thinking of, OK,

564
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,400
what does he need to eat that's
more healthy?

565
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,400
We'll have the same thing.
We'll we'll load our plate with

566
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:18,960
veg because we want to load his
plate with veg.

567
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:22,240
It's almost like backhandedly
through US wanting him to eat

568
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,440
better at dinner times has made
us all eat better at dinner

569
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:26,560
times.
No, not at all.

570
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,840
I already ate in all seriously,
I really said that.

571
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,800
I said that to meme of you then,
but genuinely not that much.

572
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,360
If anything thing it's made me
enjoy the process of cooking

573
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,600
dinner less because we eat
earlier.

574
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,760
That's different.
No, but it's made me.

575
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,360
It made it makes me.
I used to spend longer cooking

576
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,600
more elaborate meals with
different ingredients in them.

577
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,880
I find I do that way less weekly
now and I just boil it back down

578
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,480
to like a couple of veg, some
potatoes and a meat.

579
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,960
Or it's just something like
quite simple because I just

580
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,160
can't be bothered to start
cooking at 330I.

581
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,360
Love how we both ended up on the
same dinner and because of our

582
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:01,680
previous like what we did
previously I'm like this is

583
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,400
great and you're like.
This is awful, I wanted to

584
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,200
downgrade me and Lauren used to
be way more explosive.

585
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:08,040
Than.
Cooking foods.

586
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,520
And now I'm like, we have to eat
at like half five and I'm like,

587
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,880
yeah, sometimes these meals will
take an hour and a half, but I'm

588
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,400
not doing half meal. 334
o'clock.

589
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:17,280
No, it's not happening.
No.

590
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,720
So right, let's switch through
the rest, shall we?

591
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,200
Yeah, go.
On cheese we're just going to

592
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,880
that should just be banned
anyway because it's disgusting.

593
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,600
But in 2014 I hate cheese.
If that wasn't across three,

594
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,080
there was no specific limit on
cheese based dishes at all.

595
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,720
Now cheese based mains which
like pizza paninis and things

596
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,360
capped at twice per week.
So again just that incremental

597
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,880
went down government sites only
15% of children are meeting

598
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,840
recommended saturated fats
limits.

599
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,520
Yeah, it's.
Crazy cheese is nice though.

600
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,520
Bit of a theme.
Snacks.

601
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,880
In 2014, nuts were on the
permitted snack list for outside

602
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,360
mealtimes.
Now nuts have been removed and

603
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:52,480
this is due to allergy concerns
replaced by crackers and

604
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,280
breadsticks without any added
salt, sugar or fat.

605
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,680
When I first read that, I
thought what everything I hear

606
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,360
ever is how amazing for you nuts
are.

607
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,720
But it makes complete sense in
terms of an allergy thing, Yeah.

608
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,520
It's one of the only things
where it's like it, it's a net

609
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,560
loss in terms of nuts are really
healthy for you.

610
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,960
But ultimately people are like,
everyone knows that nut allergy

611
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,800
is one of the worst allergies.
So obviously we could just

612
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,160
control that and not have it
around kids.

613
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,760
So makes sense we'll take that
loss of nuts being healthy for

614
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,000
the sake of allergies.
Definitely breakfast 2014.

615
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,240
No specific Food Standards for
breakfast clubs at all.

616
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,800
Yeah, I know.
They just had to broadly follow

617
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,120
the general school Food
Standards now.

618
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:26,960
First ever dedicated breakfast
standards.

619
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:29,280
Low sugar cereals and plain
unflavored porridge.

620
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,360
Allowed pastries, fried potato
products, processed meat.

621
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,240
Eats honey and syrups.
All bad.

622
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,640
Rory loves honey in the morning.
Yeah, that's a bit honey as

623
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,640
Weetabix.
I, I, that was the first one.

624
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,920
I when I was skimming through
this earlier, I thought, that's

625
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,200
the harshest one to me.
Think, I don't think again.

626
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:44,560
I can separate it.
Yeah.

627
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,600
I don't think it's a bad thing
to make kids eat healthy

628
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,160
breakfast.
I think it's probably a very,

629
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,320
very good thing.
To do, of course it is.

630
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,120
But even just having like a
little bit, sometimes having

631
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,480
like a little bit of honey on
your cereal or whatever, it can

632
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,520
make the difference between a
child eating cereal or not or.

633
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:57,280
That's funny.
It's what I said.

634
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,600
Earlier I know, I know, I know,
I know, I know.

635
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,880
And I think I'm like, I think
that's a theme all the way

636
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,320
forever.
The reason that one jumped out

637
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,400
as me as like, oh, I reckon that
might have the most impact.

638
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,280
Yeah, yeah.
In terms of getting kids to eat.

639
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:08,480
It's interesting, very
interesting.

640
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,360
I think it makes sense with the
roll out of more breakfast

641
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,720
clubs, yeah, that you have to
have more, I think of specific

642
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,720
dedicated standards.
Because if you roll out more and

643
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,320
more breakfast clubs, which by
the way, I think it's a great

644
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,560
thing that the government are
doing, then you have to have

645
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,360
really I think you should be
more strict on what they're

646
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:23,400
doing.
That's for sure.

647
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,560
Enforcement and accountability.
So back in 2014, there was no

648
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,400
formal enforcement.
Governing bodies were held

649
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,000
responsible, but there was no
actual monitoring going on, no

650
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,200
compliance cheques, no
consequences if you didn't

651
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,920
comply.
So essentially it was very

652
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,920
strong guidance.
Yeah, like do this, but we don't

653
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:37,880
care if you don't.
Exactly.

654
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,400
But from now there's going to be
a new formal monitoring system

655
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,760
comes into place.
In 2728 academic year, every

656
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,040
school proposed to appoint a
lead governor for school food,

657
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,200
All schools to publish food
policies and menus online for

658
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,280
parent security.
I don't.

659
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,120
Know what you're thinking?
I don't people thinking, yeah,

660
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,400
more accountability.
For schools, right?

661
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,040
Yeah.
More things for schools to do,

662
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,480
more workloads.
It's just Ofsted with a

663
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,520
moustache.
Hello.

664
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,200
I'd like to just come and see if
you've got sugar on your

665
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:03,680
porridge.
Sorry.

666
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:05,960
I'm Mr Fosted.
You're.

667
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,040
Not Ofsted, are you?
No, I'm not.

668
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,080
I'm fosted food, No.
OK, you do look like the guy

669
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,800
that came here last week judging
me my English lesson.

670
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,320
Oh no, not at all.
Can you tell me the chronology

671
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,040
of this porridge?
Sorry sorry, I'm mixing up my

672
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,400
scripts.
What I mean is, can you tell me?

673
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,640
Can you tell me the liber levels
of this English lesson?

674
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,120
Oh no, Jesus Christ.
Oh no, God, I've been foiled.

675
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,520
Yeah, crazy.
But I don't know though.

676
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,160
I think it's a good thing.
Do you think?

677
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,600
I think it's a good.
Thing I'd be interested, but do

678
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:35,640
you know what?
Do you know what it is?

679
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,040
Imagine Ofsted didn't exist and
someone said we need some kind

680
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,560
of formal monitoring body that
can actually make school schools

681
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,240
doing the right thing.
And I think anyone in the

682
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:44,480
country would be like, oh,
that's bad.

683
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,640
Yeah, they'd be like that's
great.

684
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,040
So OK, benefit of the doubt.
Oh sounds reasonable.

685
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,200
Let's see what happens if
someone comes around with a

686
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,400
clipboard because there's two
grammes of fibre.

687
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,320
Too little in my in my kids
bread.

688
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,480
Then they can honestly get in
the bin.

689
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,040
But part of the process is we
have to take samples from at

690
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,640
least 12 children's stomachs
after lunchtime and part of.

691
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,760
The stool sample please.
Can you poo in this bottle?

692
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,000
Yeah, yeah.
But I but in all seriousness,

693
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,200
like the fact that they speak
for itself the past.

694
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,520
Surely they we had all these
rules we've been to place in

695
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,440
2014 and kids health is the
worse than ever, right, because

696
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,920
there was no monitoring right?
It probably screams at oh, maybe

697
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,360
we should just maybe we should
enforce it.

698
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:21,720
A.
Little bit.

699
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,080
That's such a good point.
Maybe we should check it.

700
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:24,920
Yeah, It's been 10 years since
this was introduced.

701
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,680
And let's look at where health
is right now.

702
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,000
That's awful.
Does it make you think that even

703
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,880
with this being introduced, it's
not going to change because the

704
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,640
vast majority of a child's
eating habits is not showing a

705
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:36,720
score?
Let's talk about that now.

706
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,200
I think it will make a much
smaller impact than maybe people

707
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,920
will think it will when you're
reading this because it sounds

708
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,000
kind of exciting.
I think it will have an impact

709
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,040
that is worth having, right?
That's the way I see it.

710
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,160
I think even if the impact is
5%, yeah, that is better than

711
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,320
0%.
And I think that 5% is worth it

712
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,440
because health of children as we
know we talk about even

713
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,320
separately PE and how that that
needs to be put on more special.

714
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,640
This is kind of in the same line
of healthy children is so

715
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,160
important, I think.
Schools can have much more of an

716
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,080
impact on the health of a child
through PE lessons than they can

717
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,680
through this.
That's interesting.

718
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,600
Yeah, I, I think because if you
think about exercise and how

719
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,120
much you exercise, if you can,
if you can do two, 2 1/2 hours a

720
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:17,320
week in school of proper
exercise with a coach, that can

721
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,040
be enough.
And that can be enough for a

722
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,960
child.
If you just get one dinner right

723
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,680
a week where half the kids
aren't even having the dinner

724
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,920
because they brought their own
packed lunch in, that is having

725
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,520
a tiny impact compared to I
think if we're going to, if

726
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,680
we're going to, I don't not
saying this is bad, I'm just

727
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,760
saying if we're really focusing
on the health of a child, we

728
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,160
need to plough some money into
actual physical exercise when it

729
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,280
comes to actually being in
school.

730
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,640
Definitely.
So that's just still compared to

731
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,120
this a higher priority.
Yeah, if I think so.

732
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:39,720
And even though I just think
about your analogy, it's

733
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,880
interesting because because also
pee's more enforceable in terms

734
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,280
of like every any less, you've
got to do the pee.

735
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,600
You can't just choose to not do
pee.

736
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,000
You can't just choose to not do
maths either.

737
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,600
But in but with food, it is a
bit more nuanced than that.

738
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,840
It's kind of like if you don't
like the food, no one's actually

739
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,440
going to go over and literally
spoon that food into your mouth

740
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,320
and force you to eat it.
They might encourage you a lot,

741
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,080
but there is a limit in terms of
what you can do.

742
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,440
So we can put all of the food
things in the world in place,

743
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,920
but ultimately, if a child
literally then one has packed

744
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,640
lunch because they don't want to
eat any of it, or they're still

745
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,560
having school dinners and they
just choose not to eat and they

746
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,520
go home and eat random other
crap, there is there.

747
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,400
There's a lot more limitations
in terms of what we can have

748
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,680
impact.
Here's the last thing I'll say

749
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,480
on this to try and make get my
point across.

750
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,120
How many fewer children do you
think will be admitted to A&E

751
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,440
because of tooth decay once this
is brought in?

752
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,360
Yeah, obviously I don't, I don't
think children are getting tooth

753
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:27,880
decay from current meals in
school.

754
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,200
Yeah.
They're getting tooth decay

755
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,480
because of habits outside of
school and family habits around

756
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,120
diet and what they're eating
outside of school.

757
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,840
Yeah.
I, I, I I can't see that.

758
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,280
I can't see those statistics
moving.

759
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,600
And it's a shame because in 10
years time, let's say this is

760
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,120
brought in and those statistics
don't move because nothing else

761
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,440
changes.
I I think you're looking at, oh,

762
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,600
well, this is pointless, wasn't
it?

763
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,040
Yeah, OK, no, not pointless, but
it's not going to move the dial

764
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,040
on those exact stats, in my
opinion.

765
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,360
That much so.
By itself then just these

766
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,440
changes alone to school with
nothing around it, you don't

767
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,680
think it'll make much that much
impact?

768
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,840
Do you think then it is
absolutely vital that with these

769
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,920
changes we have wider
information going out to

770
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,280
parents, wider going out to
families to try and to change

771
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,600
the culture?
Because that's the way I see it.

772
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,440
It's a yeah, this is the
starting point and we use this

773
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,360
as a vessel to really try and
push out healthier eating to our

774
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,160
communities.
Maybe I'm cynical because the

775
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,880
way I look at this is if you
look at what actually needs to

776
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,240
be done in order to really
breakdown food habits for this

777
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,080
nation, in terms of how many,
how many people are eating

778
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,360
completely unhealthily and
horribly, which is the vast

779
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,920
majority of people, by the way,
have not really got an adequate

780
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,400
diet.
If you look at what needs to be

781
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,160
done to tackle that, this is
probably one of the easier

782
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,520
things to do because you have
control over a school.

783
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,640
You can say whether things are
served or not and then you can

784
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,000
look at it and go look what we
did.

785
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,360
This.
Yeah, OK.

786
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,040
If you really want to make that
tooth decay number decrease for

787
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,440
5 to 9 year olds, if you really
want to increase healthy habits

788
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,920
for adults, if you really want
to reduce obesity levels and

789
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,600
overweight levels because of of
health reasons and take strain

790
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,840
off the long term with NHS in
lots of ways, you have to do

791
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:04,720
loads more to actually go to the
core, which is the massive food

792
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,640
companies who are producing food
which is not remotely

793
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,400
nutritionally viable.
That is cheaper than the more

794
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,200
healthy option in a shop.
You need to educate people on

795
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,480
what a healthy diet looks like,
but you also need to make it

796
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,200
easy.
Sorry, need to make it less easy

797
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,320
for someone just to walk into a
Tesco, have a massive, you know,

798
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,760
huge bag of Doritos there for a
quid that they can say, oh,

799
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,840
well, I could just buy that now
and eat that whole bag.

800
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,560
And that would make me feel a
bit full up.

801
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,320
And it tastes nice and it's
crunchy and it's great.

802
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,440
Or I could go and spend one 1 LB
on some fruit and veg and boil

803
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,080
it in a pan and wait for it.
And it doesn't really have that

804
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,440
immediate impact to me.
It's not great.

805
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,720
Yeah.
It's much easier for average Joe

806
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,800
and including the whole family
to have a much, much worse diet

807
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,960
and to to tackle that.
It's it's huge.

808
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,920
Yeah.
This won't tackle that.

809
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,320
No, I I won't.
I think going up against the

810
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,640
multi billion pound corporations
that can treat completely

811
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,560
control our end game
capitalistic lifestyles is

812
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,840
incredibly difficult feat.
I don't think it's something we

813
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,720
should therefore therefore go
Oh, we can't do it.

814
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:05,800
So we'll just focus on this one
thing.

815
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,240
I still think we should try.
I still think there was a time

816
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,760
in history where smoking was
completely widespread and

817
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,120
normalised and and just saying,
oh, you can't imagine this was a

818
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:15,600
scenario that would be only
brought in.

819
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,080
You can't smoke inside
restaurants anymore.

820
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,200
That's the.
Only thing we did, that's the

821
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,920
only thing we.
Did is that wasn't really going

822
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,760
to do much because people go
outside and smoke.

823
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,840
The kids will go home and eat
the crap because nothing's

824
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,800
changed in the culture.
But when we took a huge stand

825
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,880
against the literal billion
pound corporations that

826
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,040
controlled everything like they
were powerful entities and said

827
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,440
you literally like we are going
to.

828
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,400
Tax the massively.
Tax the massively put these

829
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,960
horrible pictures on the on the
on the shops put them behind

830
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,520
curtains and you can't see them
anymore.

831
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,800
All that stuff did actually do
something so they clearly

832
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,800
something can be done.
It's difficult and whether we'll

833
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,680
do it, I don't know, but I.
Agree we're doing some stuff

834
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,440
like, you know, recently there
was the banned and

835
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,440
advertisements before 9/9 PM and
high sugar content because

836
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:57,760
children can't see them
television anymore.

837
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,520
That's fantastic.
They're banning.

838
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,680
Well, they, they delayed it, but
it's on the process of coming in

839
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,960
where you know, you know, you
can get like multi buy deals on

840
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,760
crappy food.
It's like, oh, buy 2 biscuits

841
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,160
for the price of 1 and packs of
biscuits for the price, not just

842
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,320
two biscuits for the price of
one.

843
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,040
Obviously that would make a
consumer think I'll get that

844
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,560
it's cheaper that's banned.
So it's, you know, we are, we

845
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,240
are bringing stuff in and I do
think alongside it.

846
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,680
That's fantastic.
And just to let's clarify this

847
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,960
before we just move on in terms
of this conversation.

848
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,160
Now we've talked about what's
coming in and what it was

849
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,200
before.
I'm, I think that's a good

850
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,400
thing.
I just don't think like, like we

851
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,000
said a million times before and
lots of other situations, we've

852
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,040
doubled maternity pay.
Retention is fixed.

853
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,880
No, it's not.
That's the low hanging fruit.

854
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,720
It's not even great, not even
amazing what you've done, but

855
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:43,880
it's better than nothing.
Cool.

856
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,640
I'm not saying you shouldn't do
that.

857
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,720
What I'm saying is to actually
fix the problem you're

858
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,080
pretending is fixed, we have to
do 7 other things that harder.

859
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,800
Same here to actually fix this
problem.

860
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,080
This is one small cog.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't have

861
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,800
that cog.
If that small cog wasn't in the

862
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:57,760
machine, the machine would
break.

863
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,960
But it's just a small cog.
There are other bigger, more

864
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,560
tough, tricky cogs to build and
implement for the whole machine

865
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,360
to get working.
Very well articulated.

866
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,200
I couldn't agree more.
And there's one more, one more

867
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,080
thing that may be in my
idealistic world here, and this

868
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,840
might not be true, that makes me
think it's still going to

869
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,520
passively have a really big
benefit just doing the school

870
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,160
thing.
Because if we can hammer into

871
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,280
these kids, drill into these
kids that eating healthily is a

872
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,560
good option and something they
can do more than any other kid

873
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,440
has before when they're adults,
they might be the people to

874
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:30,800
tackle this big capitalistic
problem.

875
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,400
They might, it might not be our
generation.

876
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,880
We're maybe we're too far gone
and we don't care enough because

877
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:35,880
we do just like eating all this
stuff.

878
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,520
Maybe it's the next generation
who we instil through good

879
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,800
values, through school and, and,
and eating habits as much as

880
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,160
possible, even though we can't
control all of it.

881
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,600
And outside the home, outside
the school, in the home, maybe

882
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,800
they're the generation that will
be like actually at school.

883
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,280
Wait like this And I was forced
to be like this.

884
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,160
Why the hell are we not
enforcing these standards across

885
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,720
life in general?
And maybe it's them, I don't

886
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:53,840
know.
It's the kids.

887
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,240
The kids are the future, man.
They are.

888
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,120
They are the future.
The future change and OK, maybe

889
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,480
that's it.
No, it's interesting.

890
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,800
So we've got what's happening
now.

891
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,880
I wanted to talk about a bit of
what I find a bit of a

892
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,760
perception problem around school
dinners.

893
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,239
Yeah.
And but this genuinely works

894
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,560
both ways in terms of what
people think school dinners are.

895
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,080
It's almost always not what they
think.

896
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:17,280
So there, there is some weird
middle ground here.

897
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,400
And it's not because it's always
better.

898
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,560
It's not because it's always
worse.

899
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,440
And the one thing I think back
to is there was that video by

900
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:23,760
Montana Brown.
Yeah.

901
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,040
And and yeah, went viral.
Obviously a lot of teachers

902
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,960
rightfully were replying saying
you don't know what you're

903
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,120
talking about, why you're saying
this.

904
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,280
Didn't you?
You made a silly.

905
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,159
I made a little video about it
as well, basically because her,

906
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,040
her point was, you know, she
said why did why do kids need a

907
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,239
sticky toffee pudding up for
their dessert every single day

908
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,440
at at as school dinner?
Yeah, and, you know, obviously

909
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,520
everyone who works in the school
knows that just isn't what

910
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,320
happens, right?
But there's this perception that

911
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,639
she has.
Yeah, I know.

912
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:50,639
We're still good.
I get I get a free dinner for

913
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:53,320
sitting with the kids.
I'll be sitting with her every

914
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:54,639
day.
Hold the main.

915
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:55,840
I'll just have the sticky toffee
please.

916
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,680
I'm doing this for you kids.
Give me all your sticky toffee

917
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:58,480
puddings.
It's bad for you.

918
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:03,440
I'll eat them.
But yeah, and and she mentioned

919
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,840
about the everyday getting and
it's like it's just not what

920
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,680
happens currently.
And it just made me think about

921
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,920
the perception in general that
what people think children are

922
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,800
getting for their dinners in
school, I don't think is what

923
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,040
anyone thinks is happening.
So let me just let me just

924
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,480
outline what I'm saying here.
There are some people who think

925
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,800
school dinners just absolute
rubbish, not nutritionally good

926
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,480
at all.
Just getting your sticky toffee

927
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,160
puddings after be like what
Matana Brown was saying.

928
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:30,760
It's awful.
No, there are standards.

929
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,600
We just talked about what the
standards were and they brought

930
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,320
in 2014.
There are standards that you

931
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,840
have to go by to make sure
children have a fair balanced

932
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,080
meal.
So that's not true, but also I

933
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,560
do also think that some people
might who are aware of those,

934
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,880
those levels and those
boundaries and say, OK, 2014

935
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,800
this came in, there was a whole
Jamie Oliver thing that took

936
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,360
away the Turkey twisters, right?
It's obviously really, it must

937
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,680
be really healthy now.
I've seen a lot of school

938
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,200
dinners that are rubbish.
I mean, I started this podcast

939
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,520
in 10 seconds saying that a very
inflammatory sentence about how

940
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:03,080
bad school dinners.
Are so my point?

941
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,800
I wanted to throw this over to
you now because it's all about a

942
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,360
perception problem.
Let's dive into then what, what,

943
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,840
what is actually being put in
front of our kids because you

944
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,040
seem you're very, you've said
this a million times.

945
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,200
You're very passionate about
this.

946
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,800
Go on.
Right, I'm going to just open it

947
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,160
up a little bit because I said
that inflammatory sentence to be

948
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,040
to be a bit silly and funny.
In my own little experience of

949
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,000
teaching across three different
schools, I have seen the full

950
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,480
range.
I have worked in a school where

951
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,480
I thought the school dinners
genuinely were pretty fantastic

952
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,400
in terms of what was offered the
the catering level for the

953
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,120
children was genuinely brilliant
and they got a beautiful range

954
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,520
of food every day.
I've also I worked in a school

955
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,440
where the school dinners are so
utterly genuinely disgusting and

956
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,640
revolting that I wouldn't eat
them if I was starving.

957
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,600
Like that's how bad and low
quality of the food was.

958
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,000
Like, I literally had days where
I'd forgotten my lunch and the

959
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,040
option was continue to have a
rumbly tummy and just be hungry

960
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,520
until 5:00 till you go home or
eat the school dinner at the

961
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:57,960
school, which is free.
Yeah.

962
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,040
And I was like, I would rather
not eat that even though I'm

963
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,840
hungry.
So just to dive in a bit more of

964
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,600
what you're saying here, because
I think this is so important.

965
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,320
It's so important.
It's about quality.

966
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,720
Yeah.
It's about quality of food as

967
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:09,320
well.
Because I know exactly what you

968
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,640
mean in terms of, you know, that
dinner could have been right.

969
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,600
Let me just describe what this
kid dinner could have been.

970
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,080
A a homemade spaghetti bolognese
with maybe there's some carrots

971
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:23,360
that have been cooked on the
side and maybe even some peas is

972
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,200
an option that you can have.
And the, the, the dessert might

973
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:32,120
be very low sugar Jelly and a
bit of natural yoghurt and some

974
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,680
fruit.
Sounds like a lovely different

975
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,080
whole grain pita bread over
there as well.

976
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,680
You can use if you, if you do
the whole grain pita, you can

977
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,840
take the salad bar.
You can just get from that.

978
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,080
And, and this is where it comes
in with perception and quality.

979
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,760
Because that sounds look, that's
fantastic to me.

980
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,800
Sounds like a great, nice, good
meal to give to the children.

981
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,320
You could see that though and
still not want it.

982
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:51,440
Right.
Yeah, because the.

983
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,480
Yeah, exactly that.
You could say on the menu item

984
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,720
could say spaghetti bolognese,
but the quality of that food was

985
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:00,720
atrocious.
It was disgusting.

986
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:02,000
I don't know what.
I don't even know how you can

987
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,040
make food that bad.
I don't know what they were

988
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:04,880
doing, what they were cooking
with.

989
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,840
Maybe, you know, there must be
low quality ingredients or not a

990
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,840
variety of ingredients batch
cooked in a way that wasn't

991
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,680
actually suitable.
I don't know what was happening.

992
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,480
All I know is the end product
was disgusting and not suitable

993
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,160
for children.
And we're serving it this slop

994
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:17,680
up to them.
Do we eat every day?

995
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,280
And then the school down the
road is having lovely meals like

996
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:25,040
the the inconsistency the the
range across schools to me is

997
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,160
completely unacceptable.
It's, it's sad as well because

998
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,800
you think, I think about how
important children not being

999
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,200
hungry is.
Let's just park that for a

1000
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:34,880
minute on its own.
I'm not going to add any more

1001
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,480
context to that.
I don't want children to be

1002
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:37,760
hungry.
So the quality of the food needs

1003
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,160
to be good to make them want to
eat it.

1004
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,240
But again, if you think about
the education system as well,

1005
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:44,440
like we are teachers, at the end
of the day, halfway through the

1006
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,040
day, children get hungry and
they need to go and have their

1007
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,800
dinner.
They go and have their dinner.

1008
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,880
They're coming back on a crappy
dinner that they didn't enjoy

1009
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,320
whatsoever.
And then I've got it next day as

1010
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,840
well because maybe they're on
free school meals.

1011
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,720
It's just what they get.
If you like an Olympic kid, it's

1012
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:59,320
that or nothing.
And what we're serving them is

1013
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,200
terrible quality.
They're not going to focus for

1014
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,840
the rest of the day.
They're not going to be full.

1015
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,440
Let's nourish our children
properly and give them good

1016
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:07,200
quality food.
Do.

1017
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,400
You know what the reality was in
this situation and this this

1018
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:11,880
circles back nicely to something
we've been saying all the way up

1019
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,520
for this podcast and we can talk
about it more.

1020
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,000
Is what actually happened for a
lot of the time is those kids

1021
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,240
just didn't eat it.
Yeah, completely.

1022
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:19,280
They just didn't eat it.
Yeah, they would just they just

1023
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,120
went hungry.
It was disgusting.

1024
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,640
Or, you know, if they were lucky
enough, they would sometimes be

1025
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,160
an option to have like a they
had like a base meal that's like

1026
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,840
they can have a Jack potato
instead if you want instead of

1027
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,600
whatever them every day you can
have a Jack potato instead of

1028
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,040
the meal.
Maybe that was the option and

1029
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,880
they they always pick the jacket
potato because the meals are so

1030
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,600
disgusting.
At least they can eat a potato.

1031
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,600
How that's like that actually
makes me a little bit like I

1032
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:38,600
actually feel sad.
Yeah.

1033
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,880
Like I genuinely make that
upsets me because I'm like, how

1034
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,680
is that happening?
Yeah, in schools.

1035
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:43,600
Yeah.
Like that's crazy.

1036
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:44,640
And that happened in my
experience.

1037
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,720
I've only worked in three.
What's the chances I got the one

1038
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:47,720
school that worked the works
like that?

1039
00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:50,280
Of course it's not that that
means it happens everywhere.

1040
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:51,560
Of course it does.
It's crazy.

1041
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,160
So.
Throwing it to you then, what

1042
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,560
makes a school dinner good?
Because we've talked about

1043
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,680
quality of ingredients, we've
talked about actual nutrition

1044
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,000
levels.
We've talked about what we

1045
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,880
haven't talked about, but we can
include portion size quite

1046
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,400
often.
They're tiny portions as well

1047
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,360
that we're giving the kids.
Really.

1048
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,040
I know they're only little, but
it's small.

1049
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,960
What what's your opinion?
What makes a good school dinner

1050
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,880
then, if you summarise?
I'm going to sort of bat this

1051
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,920
off the government firstly to
say that that their view on this

1052
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,160
is it's not just about being
healthy because I think there is

1053
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:18,920
another Ave where it's like you
can make it so healthy that

1054
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,400
actually it's not.
No one even wants to eat it.

1055
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:21,480
And we get back to that
situation.

1056
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,440
I just said of eating it.
That's what I mean.

1057
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,240
Yeah, it needs to be appealing,
is what I've said.

1058
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,480
Appealing, familiar and
fulfilling.

1059
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,200
Yeah.
I think a balance exists where

1060
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,400
you use hearty ingredients,
fresh ingredients, a variety of

1061
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,120
ingredients that are nice and
maybe by themselves.

1062
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,960
Kids go, oh, no, I've never had
a celery before.

1063
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,040
OK, well, you know what?
It's just, it's a fresh

1064
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,440
ingredient that's part of this
Bolognese that's now in here.

1065
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,360
It can be familiar in terms of,
like you said, it's still a

1066
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:48,480
Bolognese.
You know what a Bolognese, It

1067
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,640
doesn't have to be this crazy
meal you've never heard of

1068
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,160
before and it's just presented
in this way you've never seen

1069
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,800
because no one ever eats this in
real life.

1070
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,200
But it's got all these roasted
Peppers are all around here and

1071
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,560
it's on this our bread you've
never seen, which has been

1072
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:01,560
toasted.
It's like.

1073
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,080
It's a mushroom from the depths
of Tokyo.

1074
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,800
Yeah, healthiest mushroom in the
world.

1075
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,880
It's like, well, OK, but the
kids don't know what the hell

1076
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,320
this is.
They just want familiar.

1077
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:10,720
Thank you.
Yes.

1078
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,040
Very well, exactly right.
And I think there is a middle

1079
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,320
ground is what I'm trying to say
is I think they're not wrong to

1080
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,280
say you can make appealing,
familiar, fulfilling meals that

1081
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,520
are healthy that don't actually
put kids off.

1082
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,440
And that I think is the point
we're trying to make.

1083
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,560
When we brought up, we talked
about all the healthy stuff to

1084
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,000
begin with, then the perception.
But the quality has.

1085
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,240
To be as well exactly the
quality exactly that, because we

1086
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:31,920
know what does exist right now,
which is the worst of both

1087
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,360
worlds, which is meals that
meals that are familiar but

1088
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,120
they're so disgusting that kids
still don't even want to eat

1089
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,080
them.
Like then the quality is so bad

1090
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,720
they don't even want to eat
these meals that look like they

1091
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:43,840
should want to eat them
completely.

1092
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,320
That's crazy.
I'd rather have a world where

1093
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,520
kids saw meals that looked a bit
unfamiliar and I'm not sure how

1094
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,720
to eat that, but at least they
are really healthy and tasty and

1095
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:54,080
nice and quality rather than
meals.

1096
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,280
They look like they should be
eaten, but they're disgusting.

1097
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,880
And the best option is both.
Yeah, just both, which is what

1098
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,600
the government's actually trying
to propose, which I think is

1099
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:01,680
good.
Let's have healthy meals that

1100
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,160
look nice and are nice.
OK, couple of things then just

1101
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,240
let's think about rounding this
off a little bit, this

1102
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:09,160
conversation now.
Couple of things I want to talk

1103
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:10,480
about.
One thing I want to talk about

1104
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,080
is free school meals in general,
but we'll come back to in a

1105
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,360
second.
OK, we will, we will.

1106
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,920
We'll finish on that.
Free school meals, cool.

1107
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,560
I want to talk about a couple of
things which kind of link

1108
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,000
together here, which is catering
companies.

1109
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,560
Yep.
Obviously, depending where you

1110
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,200
are in the country, you have a
different catering option.

1111
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,360
Even within the same
jurisdiction.

1112
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,480
Sometimes you'll have different
caterers who offer different

1113
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,680
meals, different quality.
So there's a bit of post code

1114
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,240
lottery going on.
And within that post code

1115
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:36,320
lottery of you just happen to be
here where we just happen to

1116
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,040
have this deal with this
catering company who happen to

1117
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,280
be good or bad.
Within that as well you also

1118
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,400
have some schools that have a
kitchen where food can be

1119
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,280
freshly prepared for them and
some that don't.

1120
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,080
They don't even they don't have
cooking facilities, they have to

1121
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,800
get the food brought in every
morning pre prepared somewhere

1122
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,880
else off site brought into the
school.

1123
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,320
To me that it it doesn't matter
honestly.

1124
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,840
We can implement everything we
want as long as that exists as a

1125
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,160
complete post code lottery.
And some schools don't even have

1126
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,920
a kitchen.
Yeah, there's always, always

1127
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,040
going to be a tiered system.
100% You know how?

1128
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,200
You know how there's always this
fight and we were surprised that

1129
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,640
some schools don't have
libraries and there's always

1130
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,680
funding to pick up libraries
built into schools because it's

1131
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,160
ridiculous.
The notion of a school not

1132
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,160
having a library is so absurd
that we can't even fathom the

1133
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,560
idea it should be.
And I passionately believe this.

1134
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,440
The same with kitchens.
It's a school.

1135
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,240
There's hundreds of hundreds of
people at this place all day.

1136
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,360
What do you mean there's not?
Imagine going to any private

1137
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,760
place where the expectation is
you'll have it You're you're

1138
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,440
there all day and they have no
facilities to eat.

1139
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,760
And and it doesn't happen.
Let's take it to the next level

1140
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,080
as well, because we've got to
remember that in a school, it's

1141
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,360
the duty of a school for a
portion of those people who go

1142
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,000
there to feed them.
Yeah, exactly.

1143
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,120
It's even further along.
It's.

1144
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,960
Not even an option.
No, it's like, it's like you get

1145
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,800
free school meals from this
establishment.

1146
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,160
Yeah, because that's built into
the funding that we give to your

1147
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,120
school, right.
Or if that was the case, Can you

1148
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,080
imagine that case anywhere else
where you're like, yeah, you get

1149
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,720
a job and we feed you, we give
you food and there's nowhere to

1150
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:05,520
have the food mate, and it's
children.

1151
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,880
It's like, it's insane how it's
normalised to me because the

1152
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,920
quality obviously drops off.
No one can tell me otherwise.

1153
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,800
It does, obviously does.
It's not freshly prepared.

1154
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,960
Maybe I'm biassed because of my
own experience more than is

1155
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,040
reasonable, right?
But those analogies I gave

1156
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,920
earlier of the schools I've
worked in, the one where the

1157
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,320
food was really nice, they had a
kitchen in the school and it was

1158
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,640
cooked fresh there.
The one where the food was so

1159
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,720
repulsive and discussing that I
wouldn't feed it to a pig.

1160
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:30,960
OK.
And we're expecting children to

1161
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,360
eat it farm and we're expecting
children to sit there and eat

1162
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:34,960
it, which they didn't want to do
most of the time.

1163
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,200
By the way, surprise, surprise,
didn't have a kitchen.

1164
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,880
And it was a, a private catering
company whose whose goal is

1165
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,760
profit.
Obviously, because it's a

1166
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,080
company.
I'm not saying company shouldn't

1167
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,920
make profit, but that just the
nature of it means that food was

1168
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,480
not as good.
It just wasn't.

1169
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:50,280
And they're catering for loads
of different schools.

1170
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,040
And you can, you can have a
catering company that makes

1171
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,240
profit in the school that has a
kitchen.

1172
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:54,840
So we of course you can.
But but what you're you're

1173
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,360
literally saying the cost of the
transportation.

1174
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,160
What what do you think that
comes out of thin air?

1175
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,000
Yeah, exactly.
Obviously it has to have a

1176
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,440
detriment effect not only on on
the quality of the food in the

1177
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,160
1st place but also just the food
itself.

1178
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,880
Once it's brought on site, it's
travelled across a in town.

1179
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,200
Obviously it's not as good when
you get a Deliveroo compared to

1180
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,000
when you go and sit.
If I go and have a Nando's in

1181
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,440
the restaurant, it's way nicer
than ever get a Nando's

1182
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:18,320
delivered home.
Yeah.

1183
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:19,760
Do you know why?
Because it's fresh.

1184
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,680
It's just gone off the griddle
and it's served in front of me

1185
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,160
immediately compared to packed
into someone's back, back of

1186
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,800
their moped with seven other
people's dinners curried around

1187
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:28,880
the like It's.
It's.

1188
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,520
Everyone knows that's better so
I am very very passionate and

1189
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,560
would absolutely be on be on
board for campaigning for every

1190
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,000
school should have a kitchen
where they can cook and prepare

1191
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,120
food and if and if the problem
is oh where's the money find it.

1192
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,200
Honestly honest to God it's our
children we are talking about

1193
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,320
what there's money for plenty of
things in this society.

1194
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,520
I'm sure something can be
knocked down the priority list

1195
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,600
to give kitchens to schools so
that kids can be fed properly.

1196
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:55,800
The kids that are next
generation.

1197
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,080
It is absurd.
If you have the argument

1198
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,720
genuinely, you're a moron.
If I actually think that if

1199
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:03,320
someone says, oh we just can't
afford schools, we can't afford

1200
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,880
to give schools kitchens, we're
honest to God.

1201
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,080
Whatever you think it is stupid,
reprioritize it.

1202
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,760
I'm I could not be more
passionate about the idea that

1203
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,320
we can obviously find money to
build kitchens in schools.

1204
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,680
I'd, I'd love to talk to someone
like that genuinely who thinks

1205
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,480
that and just say what's what's
on your list.

1206
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,720
Yeah.
Was it because there's two,

1207
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:23,080
there's two things, right?
Either we do have the money for

1208
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:24,600
it, but we're putting it
somewhere else and then we're

1209
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,440
like, OK, well, let's
reprioritize them because I

1210
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,400
think this should be higher up
than XYZ and we can have a nice

1211
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,640
discussion about that.
The other option is that we have

1212
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,840
we literally don't have money.
We agree on this.

1213
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,480
We agree on the priority list,
but kitchens for schools

1214
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,840
genuinely comes on the priority
list somewhere where their

1215
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,160
funding has run out.
OK, tax something more than

1216
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,280
yeah, find the money.
Find the money from do it.

1217
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,160
So you're the government.
Do something If if schools

1218
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,240
having a kitchen yeah, is past
the what we've got funding for.

1219
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,920
We don't have enough funding.
Yeah, we need to get more

1220
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,160
funding.
And I think you're being too

1221
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,000
kind even in this analogy,
because I don't think that even.

1222
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,000
Is no, I know, but I'm, I was
just saying imagine, imagine the

1223
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,760
situation where genuinely we all
agree on the priority list,

1224
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,720
because I don't think kitchens
for schools is actually number

1225
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:06,160
one of where the taxpayers money
should go.

1226
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,920
I think I can think of a few
things that should of course

1227
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,880
should have them first, IE you
know, free healthcare that costs

1228
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,320
a lot of money.
So, but there is some, let's

1229
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,760
just say it comes like, OK, I'm
sorry, I'm sorry.

1230
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,480
But the, the IT OK.
It comes down to we borrow more,

1231
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:21,960
we tax more.
We don't get the thing.

1232
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,280
We have to have the thing.
I think that that's, that's my

1233
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:27,880
opinion.
You might have a different

1234
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:28,840
opinion that we don't need the
thing.

1235
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,560
And I'd argue with you and I
think you're wrong.

1236
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:32,440
Yeah, but in my head, we need
the thing.

1237
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,200
So we either have to borrow more
or we have to tax more.

1238
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:36,200
Don't think we should be
borrowing much more.

1239
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,200
No, to be perfectly honest with
you, because then it's

1240
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,120
independent of interest later on
down the line.

1241
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,880
Tax more.
No one likes to hear that word.

1242
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,320
No tax more.
Look at almost every European

1243
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,000
country and the way they run and
the way they do things.

1244
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,560
They are taxed at a higher rate
than we are.

1245
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,240
People look at our tax system
right now and go, we're taxed

1246
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:54,920
more than we've ever been taxed
in this country.

1247
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,160
That is true.
That is true.

1248
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:02,360
But there are also other
countries, societies that thrive

1249
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,160
and provide more for their
people because tax goes up, OK,

1250
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,280
tax goes up.
Providing for me as a person in

1251
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,280
this society goes up.
It's not a 0 sum game.

1252
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,720
If I, if I OK, I spend more tax.
Kids get better meals.

1253
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,840
Yeah, Yeah.
I didn't personally get anything

1254
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,080
from that tax going up.
No.

1255
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,680
No, you didn't personally.
But your children?

1256
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:23,480
Well, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

1257
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,800
And as long as that's the case,
I think people's only legitimate

1258
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,960
worry based on the how the
country's been run for the last

1259
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:28,360
15.
Years.

1260
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,920
I agree with this by the way.
Is that no one's convinced any

1261
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,160
but most people are convinced
that when we when taxes go up,

1262
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,600
nothing actually improves
because it just goes it lines

1263
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,040
the pockets of private
industries.

1264
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,320
And you know what, genuinely,
genuinely, I actually really get

1265
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,920
that.
And, and when I, This is why I,

1266
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,000
you know, usually I'm quite
forthcoming about just saying

1267
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,360
people need to get over stuff
with tax going up.

1268
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,160
It's not a comfortable
conversation.

1269
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,400
You see a lot of waste in the
system right now can be really

1270
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,600
frustrating when taxes go up and
you don't see anything.

1271
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,920
Taxes have gone up for the last
10 years and I've seen quality

1272
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,400
of standards of living go down.
Exactly.

1273
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,920
So I can see why people putting
two and two together here and

1274
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,520
being like, okay, well don't tax
me more if it's going to get

1275
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:05,840
worse.
Exactly that, I think, which is

1276
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,000
completely reasonable.
I think most genuinely most

1277
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,200
people, no matter their
political side, if you actually

1278
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,200
said to them and you could
guarantee that, OK, you're going

1279
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,240
to pay an extra penny of, of tax
on, on, on the pound, right?

1280
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,080
And it's guaranteed that that is
going to directly fund children

1281
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,400
in schools for whatever it is,
whether it's kitchens or being

1282
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,560
fed in some other way.
I actually think most people

1283
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,080
would be like, if it was
guaranteed, there's no

1284
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,680
scepticism at all.
They'd be like, that's a fair

1285
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,360
trade.
It's just that in reality, it's

1286
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,320
in reality, most people are only
put off that by that because

1287
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:33,960
they think that's probably not.
Not gonna happen.

1288
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,760
But and some people,
fundamentally, I've seen a lot

1289
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,000
of people literally
fundamentally say that their tax

1290
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,560
money shouldn't be going to
other people's kids.

1291
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,440
So there are some people who
have a fundamental problem with

1292
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,160
that for sure.
But I think a lot of people

1293
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,040
would think exactly, let's just
do that, which is what I'm

1294
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:47,000
saying.
I just think a lot of people.

1295
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,080
And this kind of comes back to
the last point I wanted to make

1296
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,360
here now.
So let's finish off on this.

1297
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:53,800
Free school meals.
Yeah, there's a lot of chat.

1298
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,360
Like, for example, in London,
every child gets free school

1299
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,720
meals, something the Mayor of
London did, Sadiq Khan brought

1300
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:00,040
that in.
Every child in London gets free

1301
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,000
school meals.
Yeah, it's something that I've

1302
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,960
seen some individual schools
implement.

1303
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,680
For example, there'll be some
children, sorry, some schools

1304
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,840
who have more of a budget
because they're in a more of a

1305
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:09,680
deprived area.
Yep.

1306
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,360
And they've made the decision,
actually, such a vast majority

1307
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,760
of children are free school
meals and pupil premium that we

1308
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,320
just roll out everyone's we can
actually, we we can afford this.

1309
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,720
It's for everyone right here.
And then we know, Yeah, I know

1310
00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:22,440
school to do that.
And it every single situation

1311
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,560
I've seen where it's been
implemented, it seems to have

1312
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,960
been a good thing.
It has to come alongside quality

1313
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,920
meals that we just talked about.
There's nobody giving out free

1314
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,360
school meals.
And it's crap and no one wants

1315
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:32,440
it because that is a waste of
money then.

1316
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:33,720
So it has to come alongside
stuff.

1317
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,240
But this this caught my
attention this week because

1318
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:39,200
you'll notice in the last, you
know, I'd say even just three

1319
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,880
months, the Green Party have
soared in popularity.

1320
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,200
So we've seen reform completely
sorted in popularity.

1321
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,000
We talked about that a bit.
I think it's also only right we

1322
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,640
talk about the Green Party and
what they're actually talking

1323
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,080
about because they are very,
very popular.

1324
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,280
And again, we talk about the the
cross section of people who are

1325
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,000
teachers way more of our
audience listening right now,

1326
00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,880
we'll be looking at green
policies and thinking, Oh, I

1327
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,320
support that, that that is just
that it's just a fact of how the

1328
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,480
votes are spread.
So they mentioned that recently

1329
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,440
they announced some policies
that they wanted to bring in, in

1330
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,880
terms of, you know, if they had
the chance to, they'd bring in

1331
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,480
these policies to help with the
cost of living.

1332
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,800
Because their point is the cost
of living is not something we

1333
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,360
just have to live with.
It's something we can actually

1334
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,040
action and, and, and help
ourselves out of essentially.

1335
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And one thing they mentioned was

1336
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,800
free school meals for everyone.
So they, they are basically

1337
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,480
saying it's, it's not just, you
know, your background, it's if

1338
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,480
you are a child in primary
school or secondary school, you

1339
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,440
get a free meal.
It's as simple as that.

1340
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:36,160
I have been an advocate for this
for a long.

1341
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,600
Time I was about to say that.
So I you know we can start with

1342
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:41,800
your.
Your face, yeah, sure.

1343
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:47,560
I think it's a no brainer.
Idealistically, ideologically,

1344
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,680
yeah, I think we should
absolutely be striving towards

1345
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,080
that, definitely.
Whether it's doable in one fell

1346
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,040
swoop, I don't know, but I don't
think that should be the reason

1347
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:57,000
to not do it, if that makes
sense.

1348
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,120
I absolutely think feeding
children, it just sounds so

1349
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,040
weird when you say it because it
feels so obvious.

1350
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,960
Feeding children should be
something we do as a society and

1351
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:08,760
are proud of.
Yeah.

1352
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,200
Like that, that's kind of the
end of the statement really,

1353
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,120
which is kind of what you said
for years, to be honest with

1354
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:13,920
you.
Yeah.

1355
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:15,440
OK.
So can I, can I read you a

1356
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:16,920
couple because obviously London
did it.

1357
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,160
Yeah, so I've got, we've got
some stats here about it.

1358
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,040
So this will be interesting just
to put across this to we can

1359
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,720
maybe think afterwards is it
worth it, But is it a good

1360
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:27,200
thing?
So London already does this.

1361
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,160
The mayor funds Universal.
That sounds like he's doing it

1362
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,000
personally.
No, he's made a policy that does

1363
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,760
this at universal free school
meals for everyone.

1364
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,240
At state primary schools in
London, families save over ��500

1365
00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:41,520
per pupil per year because
obviously they're not buying

1366
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,800
their own lunches for them. 84%
of parents say that it helped

1367
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,760
household finances, 55% said
their child now tries new foods

1368
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,320
because of it.
I love what I've been talking

1369
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,400
about.
However, based on the evaluation

1370
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,440
in December 2025 from London, it
found no measurable boost in

1371
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,760
attainment.
The research has warned short

1372
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:02,160
term effects are difficult to
detect.

1373
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:03,640
Cool.
Don't care, right?

1374
00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:06,280
Honestly, don't care.
It seems like the most I don't

1375
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,120
care.
What does that have to do with?

1376
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,240
I love that you said that's my
gut reaction was like, that's

1377
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:11,120
weird.
That's like you might as well

1378
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,680
have just said to me.
But studies, studies have shown

1379
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,880
that children's shoe sizes
haven't changed in the last 50

1380
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,320
years as a result of this
change.

1381
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,880
Like, OK, I don't care.
Have shown that there are still

1382
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,840
the same amount of birds flying
over the school building.

1383
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:26,760
Do you know what studies should
show is that?

1384
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,760
That children are eating food?
I know that's what that's about.

1385
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,000
Families have saved money.
So, yeah, do you know what?

1386
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,360
Yeah, there's another statute.
There's actually.

1387
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,240
Literally that was there.
Like attainment, for God's sake.

1388
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:37,960
What's?
Wrong with that care about

1389
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,000
attainment that.
Results have not changed,

1390
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,600
therefore we're scrapping up.
Doing it.

1391
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,000
Oh my God, isn't that I just
don't care?

1392
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,440
I don't care.
And if you care you should stop

1393
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,000
caring.
You have been sucked into this

1394
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,960
world of thinking attainment
stats are the only the be all

1395
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,920
and end all of children.
I've just listed six ways this

1396
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,760
has been good, but we've not
seen a measurable boost in

1397
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,800
attainment.
Stop.

1398
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:01,600
Scrap it.
Kids don't need broccoli

1399
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,560
anymore.
Insanity.

1400
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:08,480
I just don't care so.
Some analysis from 2022

1401
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,360
suggested that for every ��1.00
invested in providing these

1402
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,400
meals to all children in
Universal Credit households,

1403
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,040
��1.38 would be returned over 20
years through social, health and

1404
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,360
educational benefits.
OK.

1405
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,600
So if we want to try and measure
it, there are going to be some

1406
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,680
things that say IT projects to
give your money back.

1407
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,520
Basically the overall argument I
would say here is that

1408
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,320
ultimately everything we've said
holistically the child eats

1409
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,560
that's good, the family save
money, that's good, blah blah

1410
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,280
blah blah blah.
If you want some kind of well

1411
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,360
it's the taxpayers money.
It's irresponsible where kids

1412
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,360
family should just be able to
feed their own kids before they

1413
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,960
say it complete not I just think
it's a nonsense thing to say.

1414
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,320
OK whatever.
If you need something though,

1415
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,120
there seems to be also quite a
bit of research that said this

1416
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,840
is an investment as well.
It's an investment because in

1417
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,320
the long term it should.
If we, if we nourish our next

1418
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,160
generation, the next generation
grow up to be maybe a little bit

1419
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,960
more.
If you need this by the way,

1420
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,160
just saying if you need this
that they do more in the.

1421
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,080
Workforce.
You know what, crack on with

1422
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,040
those stats.
If that's what's needed to just

1423
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,160
like to tip perhaps to the
people that only care about

1424
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:15,480
capitalism and money, that's
cool.

1425
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:16,560
Crack on.
Let's just get those people

1426
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,360
happy and they can shut up and
go somewhere else so we can

1427
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,120
actually deal with the problems
with people that actually care

1428
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,080
about stuff.
So cool you go enjoy that little

1429
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:23,600
stat.
Don't really care about you all

1430
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,680
those.
Stats OK, so last thing, last

1431
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,280
thing then on this just throwing
it back to you now then, because

1432
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,720
I I do struggle with this, I
land on the side of let's just

1433
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:32,120
give everyone dinner because
they're kids.

1434
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:36,360
OK, But that I think that is
genuine, good, decent,

1435
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,720
thoughtful pushback that says
the child of a multi millionaire

1436
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:41,520
does not need the state to be
paying for their lunch.

1437
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,000
Yeah.
I honestly, I, I, I don't even,

1438
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,000
I don't really think I have a
come back to that because I

1439
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:48,040
think that's true.
What do you think?

1440
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,560
There's 2 levels to this.
Number one, I think it's a very

1441
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,240
reasonable thing to stay that we
should maybe do this in

1442
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:55,040
increments and levels.
Like for example, we just kind

1443
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,880
of glossed over this 2026.
From September 2026, government

1444
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,400
is expanding free school meals
to all pupils whose household

1445
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,680
receives Universal Credit, which
which will have an estimated

1446
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,240
500,000 additional children
being left lifted out of poverty

1447
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:07,240
and getting those free school
meals.

1448
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,400
That's a really good step and
that isn't every single child

1449
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:11,360
now gets it.
So that's good.

1450
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,040
But in that situation of like
going to the extremes of the

1451
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,600
multi millionaire, I think it,
I, I genuinely think it's, it's,

1452
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:22,720
it's more of an issue with how
we view whose problem something

1453
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:26,080
is like the ownership of a
child, because it's your child,

1454
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,080
it's your problem.
Whereas we could just take it

1455
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,160
from the stance of the child's
not a millionaire.

1456
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,400
None of those children are.
They're all equal.

1457
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,600
It's a legal level playing field
at the perspective of just the

1458
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,640
children.
They all just get access to

1459
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,080
food.
Well done.

1460
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:39,880
Wow, your parent has loads of
money.

1461
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:44,000
OK, that other parent who only
earns 100,000 lbs, they have a

1462
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,560
tenth of the millionaire.
They're also probably fine.

1463
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,520
But at the end of the day, let's
strive towards the end goal

1464
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,880
being regardless of that, let's
just feed kids, right?

1465
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,200
We'll start by having increments
where we when we do factor in

1466
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,400
the money, OK, let's start with
the people on Universal Credit,

1467
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,320
then we'll expand, then we'll
expand and get to the point

1468
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:01,840
where everyone.
Could just, but if we start with

1469
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,680
that, why would we carry on
expanding?

1470
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,280
Like if the point being we would
just reach the point where we're

1471
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,200
expanding 2 millionaires
children maybe so, so So what

1472
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,320
you're saying, what you're
saying is we'll get to the point

1473
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,960
where everyone but anyone who
earns over 1,000,000 quids

1474
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:15,920
getting a free school meal.
There's a chunk of children

1475
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:17,120
whose parents earn over
��1,000,000.

1476
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:18,840
But I'm going to keep going
because the end goal is everyone

1477
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,960
gets free school meals.
That would seem like an insane

1478
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,720
step but I am still also sat
here saying let's just give him

1479
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:25,840
free school meals.
So my point is it seems a bit

1480
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,360
like a paradox here where if we
just slowly increment it up

1481
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,840
there would clearly be a point
where I'm like Oh my God no

1482
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,480
don't spend any more taxpayers
money on that.

1483
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,640
Richard Bransons grandchild does
not need me to spend my tax

1484
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,760
money on him having his lunch.
But also I am also sat here just

1485
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,760
saying let's just give kids
free, free meals.

1486
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,360
So, so there's a way Paradox
said I don't feel it's been

1487
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,440
solved.
So and and the line, if you draw

1488
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,160
a line, you'd always have to
justify it somehow.

1489
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,640
Yeah, I do think that if you
look at what families are

1490
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,080
saving, I, I, I feel strongly
that we should be encouraging

1491
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,600
families to have children.
So if you think about my

1492
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,560
household, for example, Roy
would not be eligible for free

1493
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,000
school meals.
However, if he was, it would be

1494
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,440
nice to save that money and then
spend it on him in some other

1495
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,080
aspect.
Maybe I'll take him on some

1496
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,800
trips to, to to enhance his
understanding of something.

1497
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,720
Maybe it'll just go towards our
heating bill so he's warm at

1498
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,520
home.
Like because you you don't have

1499
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,080
to be mega rich to still feel
the you know, you can also can

1500
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,720
still feel the pinch and and not
be really, really in in Yeah.

1501
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,400
Totally.
I think I'm going to try and

1502
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,680
word it again because I still
don't think, I don't think

1503
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,880
there's as much of A paradox
there as as maybe you do because

1504
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:29,560
I don't.
I think it's again, it's a

1505
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:32,560
perspective thing.
I think we could reasonably

1506
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,200
completely disassociate the the
idea of how much a parent earns

1507
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,840
eventually with the the mantra
from a government perspective of

1508
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,560
it's we, the government of this
country, we feel that it's our

1509
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,400
burden, our responsibility that
children are fed at school.

1510
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,320
And that is just a blanket thing
and it and it doesn't matter

1511
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:51,440
like the other, they're just
not.

1512
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,600
That's fine.
By the way, I, I, I really, I

1513
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,920
really don't disagree with that.
The only time where I'm saying a

1514
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,720
paradox came in was where your
point of just creeping up and up

1515
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,000
and up and up because because it
seemed like creeping up from the

1516
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,640
point of not when people get it.
Let's give extend its Universal

1517
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,400
Credit, let's extend it to
people earning 25 grand or less.

1518
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,200
Let's extend it to people
earning 50 grand or less.

1519
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,800
That act of of of progressively
going up that way seem to me as

1520
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,600
if it would definitely hit a
point where even I, as someone

1521
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,840
who says everyone should get a
free school meal, even I would

1522
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:19,000
say, well, let's not do the
next.

1523
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,960
Jump Yeah, sure.
I I think those increments in

1524
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,960
reality would have to be a lot
smaller and they wouldn't, they

1525
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:24,600
wouldn't be sorry.
There'll be so many of them.

1526
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:26,640
I think realistically, the
bigger increment, we've probably

1527
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,680
already done them.
Like it really it's gone from no

1528
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,000
one's getting it to some people
are getting it to this one where

1529
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:32,400
it's like anyone's been
Universal Credit.

1530
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,320
There might be be one more step
that we do just to try and help

1531
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:37,360
families who are literally in
poverty, right?

1532
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,440
And then it's at that point,
it's then the final leap, which

1533
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:41,960
is cool.
All children.

1534
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:43,320
It's not, it's not suddenly
like, oh, you.

1535
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:44,280
Weren't that's.
Fair.

1536
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,360
It is just the fundamental
people who are in poverty, whose

1537
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,040
kids aren't even being fed,
let's make sure we sort them out

1538
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,280
as priority because that is
genuinely fundamentally

1539
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,080
essential that those kids get
food because they're not getting

1540
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,960
food.
Once everyone's getting food to

1541
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:56,440
some extent, then we just go
cool now.

1542
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,800
Now the government says it's our
responsibility we feed kids.

1543
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:00,320
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that's a bad thing.

1544
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,320
And I also don't think, by the
way, just be really clear.

1545
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:03,880
Hilarious.
I contradict myself.

1546
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,200
I don't even think it's a bad
thing if we did stop at the

1547
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:07,840
incoming works.
Like we're just making sure as a

1548
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:09,760
baseline, the government say
everyone gets fed and then the

1549
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,240
the millionaires do have to sort
themselves out.

1550
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:12,520
Yeah, I don't think that's bad
either.

1551
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,320
I just think it's quite nice.
It'd be nice.

1552
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,960
I'd be proud as a as a culture
to say we take the burden on

1553
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,640
feeding our kids as a culture,
irregardless of your family's

1554
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,800
social status.
And also that millionaire has

1555
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,640
probably paid for half the kids
to have their Yeah, exactly.

1556
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:27,520
There you.
Go so they can have that kid can

1557
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:28,400
have.
Friends yeah.

1558
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,080
So I, I just to bring it all
back, I still think every child

1559
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,520
should just be able to eat.
And I think alongside these

1560
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:37,480
changes, I think alongside other
policies that are coming in and

1561
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,440
also policies that I think
should be coming in and we

1562
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,000
should tackle it more head on.
I think your analogy to do is

1563
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,440
smoking and saying, well,
actually do you know what?

1564
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,200
At one point this was absolutely
fine and we and, and it was, we

1565
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,520
did have to take on multi
billion # corporations and we

1566
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,880
did it.
We taxed stuff higher to, to

1567
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:54,560
make people not not spend as
much.

1568
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,360
We did public health campaigns.
I think all of that is

1569
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:58,760
happening.
I think more needs to be done.

1570
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,040
Sugar tax, Exactly.
That didn't exist before, and

1571
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:02,240
now it does.
It's doing something.

1572
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,360
And all it did was made me
poorer because I've, I've not

1573
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,280
drank less of that.
It's really addictive.

1574
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,400
Yeah, just made me really,
really, really poor.

1575
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,960
So I appreciate that.
But no, it I think there's,

1576
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,840
there's definitely, definitely
stuff to do.

1577
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:14,600
I think this is a step in the
right direction.

1578
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,640
More kids should get food in
general, just based on what we

1579
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,840
just said.
But it should be quality food.

1580
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,120
It should be healthy food,
hearty, fulfilling.

1581
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,080
Let's just feel like.
It's properly.

1582
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:26,680
This is a good change.
It's a good policy.

1583
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,520
Well done Labour.
We're very we could seek

1584
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,000
everything.
Yeah, I think this is a good

1585
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,040
move. 100 percent, 100%,
Absolutely, Absolutely.

1586
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:35,600
If only we could go.
And speak to her.

1587
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:37,400
That'd be so cool.
If we could, that'd be so.

1588
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:38,480
Good.
If we could do that at some

1589
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:39,200
point, yeah.
I wonder if.

1590
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,240
Wonder if we'll get that
opportunity Wink wink, nudge

1591
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,880
nudge.
Find out more soon.

1592
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,400
TuneIn, next time, see ya to
eat, teach, leak, repeat without

1593
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:50,680
the eat.
See ya.