Ep 121: Our Final Week Of Teaching: Have We Made A Mistake?

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach

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Steep Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name is

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Hayden, and this week we'll be
diving into our final week of

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teaching before we quit and
reflecting on all the highs and

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lows of our career.
We're going to talk through the

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exact moment that we knew it was
time to quit.

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And ultimately, whether or not
we think that we've made a

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mistake jacking it all in.
But first, Hayden has been

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teaching sex Ed.
OK, Hayden, it's the end of term

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6.
You're in upper key stage 2.

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That means only one thing You've
been teaching SRE not to be

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confused with RE.
Yeah.

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It's not a special RE.
It's not one super RE.

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Super RE.
The kids are like, yeah, it's

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Jesus with a Cape on.
Super Jesus.

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Yes, we love this topic.
No, no, no, no.

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No, kids.
I'm really sorry.

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Actually, it's not that at all.
We're gonna be talking about sex

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and relationships.
So you've been doing this what

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is deemed by a lot of teachers
to be probably the most awkward

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set of learning that we have to
give the children.

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How's it gone?
It's, I mean, if we're talking

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about how it's gone in general
over my career, I, I think it's

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become less awkward for me.
The kids, however, that resets

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every year because it's a new
cohort.

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I I do find that it is
completely different, by the

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way, every year.
I like, you'd think there'd just

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be kind of a set level of
awkwardness some year.

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Groups way too big for their
boots, right?

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They stroll in like, yeah, no,
already, don't I don't worry

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about it.
I'll teach it, Mrs Stevens, you

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know what I'm saying?
You get that attitude.

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And they they actually don't
really have a clue.

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They.
Just they know a few innuendos,

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a couple of words and they've.
Seen a video online and they

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think signal.
Something literally right and

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then you get other year groups
and I had it a bit this year a

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bit more like very white face
sheepish like I don't think I

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know like I don't think I want
to be here actually in learning

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about any of this, to be honest.
Please don't talk to me actually

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ever again.
I had a bit more of that this

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year.
So you know, I'm in my element

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because it's because it's
hilarious, like, because as a

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teacher, like I've done it many,
many years now, I just see it as

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basically like a science
curriculum.

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I even say it's the kids
sometimes.

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I'm like, look guys, if you're
feeling really awkward about

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this, just try, just try and
remember that we, we, we

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wouldn't bat an eyelid about
learning about anatomies of

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other other animals and things
in biology.

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We probably would if it was a
penis of an Albert.

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We we, we probably would.
Let's be honest.

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I think it's specifically what
it's about, rather than true.

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Actually, there's not many times
I put a fish penis on the board,

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but when we learn about under
under the.

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Creatures sorry the fish have
penis don't know I.

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I just said that and then I have
no idea.

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They must do no, they lay eggs.
They.

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Don't have a penis do you think
if you lay an egg that's true

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That's true they.
Come from?

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Yeah, true, that's true.
I don't know, maybe that's a

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good point.
That's a good point.

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I'll take that more.
Fish cut have penises supposed

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to be here.
We got 10 years of sex Ed.

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That's not well.
What have you been teaching our

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kids?
I just told them the humans and.

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Female every month lays an egg.
Actually, fun fact for you, in

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the human species, the female
eats the male afterwards.

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Just like, no wonder they're
like passing out.

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I've been sick.
Oh.

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So, so we've established your
limited knowledge on this.

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I did want to ask you, with your
lack of experience in this in

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general, how do you teach sexual
education?

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Like, Thanks, Dylan.
Yeah, Well, actually.

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And no one challenges that
anymore because I've had a child

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now done so.
I actually only did that to

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prove that I've got some
experience and I'm worthy of

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teaching it so.
Did you get any children

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genuinely, who obviously they're
in sexual education and biology,

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very much about biology.
And just like the functions of

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you do a lot of puberty, right?
Because children will be going

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through puberty at that point.
But you do a small part on

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reproduction.
Yep.

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Right.
So do you get any children after

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you've taught them what
reproduction is?

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Obviously, you know, break that
barrier, guys.

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This is just a biological thing
that happens because we need to

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have children.
Do you get any children and any

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children in your class who say
to you, haven't you had a child,

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Mr Stevens?
Not as if to say, wait a minute,

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you've done, you've done this.
Hang on a minute.

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You gross, disgusting man.
What have you done?

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Is that awkward?
Like, because I don't want, I

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don't want the children to be
thinking about all that kind of

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stuff.
You know what, most years, no.

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Yeah, I've had the odd comment
over the years and it's never

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gone.
It's never crossed the line.

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I've never actually had to say
to job.

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Well that's inappropriate.
Yeah, be commenting on my

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personal life.
I'm sure I've had the look I

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from some kids as like that
brain has gone.

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Ohhh like 2 and 2 is coming.
You obviously since you've had a

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child, yeah, there's only one
way a child is made and children

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are very clever and they put.
Well, actually Dylan, in our

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lesson, we talk about how there
are lots of different ways that

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that children can be made and it
might not not necessarily be

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from sexual intercourse.
We talk about IVF and all these

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other things.
OK, good.

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I was.
I was waiting for you to say

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something actually.
Like an egg appears out of

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nowhere.
Yeah, actually, Ari, Immaculate

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Conception.
I just looked at the belly and

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it was in there.
Actually, one of the kids did

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say to me they were, they were
like, So what is a virgin?

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Because obviously we're a
Christian School, a Virgin Mary.

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A virgin?
Yeah.

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Yeah.
What?

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Actually is a virgin then and so
I have to answer that question,

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get all sorts of questions.
I mean, that's that's good

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though, right?
Not really something I've ever

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considered.
The fact that it's the Virgin

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Mary, I bet a lot of kids just
go through school thinking

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that's her first name.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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They don't even put anything
together as the fact that that's

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because it's special.
Immaculate concept.

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Well, they must do because
literally none of them knew I

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had like 40 odd boys and they're
45 boys and like no one could

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answer because sometimes when
someone asked a question, other

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kids are like proud to like Oh,
I know.

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This one, I know this one, but
they're all just like waiting

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like, yeah, what is it then?
What is it then?

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It's like as if we've not been
using that term since they were

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in reception.
It's crazy.

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And because a lot of especially
like ultra religious people

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might have a problem with this
being taught.

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So you've been, you've been
talking about the Virgin Mary

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since your child was 2.
Like, don't you understand that

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that's got a direct link to the
fact that she did not have these

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sexual relations with anyone?
When you do questions and stuff,

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obviously it's a big, you see a
lot of it online when people are

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saying, yeah, I just put these
anonymous boxes, these pieces of

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paper just to try and like, cut
through the awkwardness.

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Yeah.
Is that something you do?

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Oh.
Absolutely.

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Yeah.
So like, not all kids want to

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put their hand up and ask a
question, you know, I mean,

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sometimes the fact most commonly
they'd like to write it down.

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You do get the odd child who is
brave enough, like, especially

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when it's the first one, right?
The one that breaks the seal

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when you're talking.
They put their hand up in front

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of 45 other kids and ask a
question, you know, that's

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awkward to them.
But what I always do, and I

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think this is good practise for
anyone that's doing SRE, is I'll

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always just stop for like 30
seconds and just big up that kid

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to the rest of the kids and be
like, right, can you put your

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hands up if you were also
thinking something along the

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lines of that question as well,
but you didn't really want to

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ask it?
And honestly, 25 hands go up

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every single time.
And I stop the more I say right

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look around okay, well done you
for asking yet.

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So please don't feel like
embarrassed that you're the only

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one that didn't know this thing
because look, there were 25

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other kids that want to know
this and.

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Now, kids, I'm gonna tell you
all what Morning Glory is.

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Thank you for asking that.
Really good.

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Question you something so funny?
Go on.

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Someone literally asked me this
year.

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What's morning glory?
Literally asked me.

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What is Morning Glory?
Their their parents must be

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going to the Oasis concert or
something.

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They would have heard it
somewhere.

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It's a really nice album.
It's a.

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It's a really lovely album.
I don't know if it's an album or

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a song.
Please don't write into me,

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Oasis mega fans.
I'm so sorry if I've done

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anything to insult you.
Did you tell them?

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Yeah.
Yeah, of course.

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Yeah, yeah.
Because you're up to right.

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Yeah, the one one of the do you
know what, I don't find much of

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it awkward, but the probably the
most awkward bit is we do just

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follow a scheme, by the way.
So I just sat there like right,

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I've gone home and plan these
lessons myself.

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Come on lads.
That's an objective to know what

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wood is.
That comes up every.

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Year as well, Really.
Every year because I was having

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the term morning glory in
morning wood.

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It's obviously funny, right?
And they hear it and they're

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like, what is that?
And then I just think once I've

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explained an erection, really
fun, really fun conversation,

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they just again, they say,
what's wood?

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I was like, think about it.
Yeah.

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Why might that be called that?
And they're like, oh, oh, I get

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it now because.
It makes a bed.

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No, Do I really have to explain
this again?

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Something really funny this year
is I had to, I had to move rooms

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at one point and tech stuff,
right?

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And I went into a different room
and I was setting up my slides

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again, getting all back on the
screen.

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And there was another, in fact,
a librarian who is a qualified

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teacher as well.
She's just been really friendly.

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She just helped me escort these
children and just keep them busy

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for like 30 seconds whilst I got
all the tech up.

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And she said right, coming kids,
we've all been through it.

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Don't be embarrassed about it.
Tell what you've been learning

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whilst Mr Stevens gets his board
ready.

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What have you been learning?
What have you been?

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Come on, tell me something.
A few hands go up and one one of

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the kids literally put their
hand up right.

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And I was saying super sensible
kid at the back.

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So this is going to be a good
answer.

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They're not, you know, make me
embarrassed.

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Said, well, we've been learning
about erections and wood.

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And because obviously they just
had, they just had this

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conversation where they were
talking about other names for

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things and I was, you know, I'm
not going to, I'm not going to

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tell them that like.
They're not going to name

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things.
Don't talk about that.

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It's only called a penis.
It's only called a penis.

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And I was thinking, Oh my God,
librarians like, all right,

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thinking.
She's obviously thinking, what

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on earth are you doing in these
lessons?

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If that's what the kids
erections and wood, it's about

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it, really.
I thought these lessons were on

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puberty.
That was SRA and DT, so it's

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just.
Link it in.

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Honestly, I know there'll be
some people listening right now.

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00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,840
Obviously this is funny.
We know it's part of secondary

228
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,200
school.
We know kids have to go through

229
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this.
And I think it's really good

230
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that when your body is going
through these changes, to be

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able to be taught and know
what's going on, like even in

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the opposite sex.
Like I remember becoming

233
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15/16/17 and honestly not really
understanding the insurance and

234
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outs of the female body and
what, what, what.

235
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And from no fault of my own, I
don't think I just wasn't told

236
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about it at all.
So I do think this is really

237
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,320
important.
But then, you know, I think

238
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,320
there's a line between puberty,
what happens to your body, pure

239
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,040
biology, and maybe they're
moving into reproduction.

240
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,920
Clearly there's a line that's a
step up.

241
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,400
So do you think it's fair enough
for parents to choose what their

242
00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,200
child is taught?
You know, are there slips that

243
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,440
go home?
Should every child just get it

244
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,000
regardless as to what their
parents think?

245
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,040
What's the line for you?
I think it's a tough one because

246
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,760
I can have my personal opinion
and then I can have the kind of

247
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,600
overarching.
At the end of the day, it's like

248
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,840
it's not my child though.
So I kind of, I'm happy to be

249
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:40,680
vetoed.
Do you know what I mean?

250
00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:43,640
So my personal opinion is we put
it in the curriculum for a

251
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,480
reason.
Like I remember back, I think

252
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,600
back when we were younger, there
was quite a surge in like

253
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teenage pregnancies and things
and there just wasn't much,

254
00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:51,760
there wasn't much education
around sex education, I don't

255
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:52,840
think.
And that's kind of why I think

256
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,520
it was Channel 4.
I think we're commissioned to do

257
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,640
a tonne of stuff on sex
education to actually teach kids

258
00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,480
so they're a bit more informed
and, you know, can make

259
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,240
decisions knowing what's going
to happen, like the

260
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,000
consequences.
But there was a lot of pushback

261
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,600
as well.
I seem to remember at the time

262
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,160
of parents be like, my kids
shouldn't know about this if

263
00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:08,640
we're just teaching them how to
do it then.

264
00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,200
And then maybe people will do it
more because they know about it

265
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,840
when they didn't before.
That's tricky.

266
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,920
That's tricky because there will
be some children who, like you

267
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,000
said, you had a bunch this year
who had no idea, and now they

268
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,040
know.
So you have told them things

269
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,880
they didn't necessarily need to
know yet when it comes to

270
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,440
reproduction.
So, you know, and I know

271
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:26,960
there'll be some people who knew
about it anyway.

272
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,920
And now more informed.
And it's maybe it's always

273
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,400
better to have more information.
Yeah.

274
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,600
But fundamentally, like when a
parent thinks my child's not

275
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,320
quite ready for this yet, it is
different to learning about

276
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:37,600
mixed number fractions.
Sure.

277
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,000
Or you know, Henry the Eighth in
the past and you issued lessons.

278
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,360
Yeah.
Do you think it's OK whether you

279
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,320
would or not now moving away
from your opinion and more into

280
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,840
a professional standpoint of
delivering education syllabus

281
00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,000
that it's OK that a parent be
like I want them out of this.

282
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,640
Yeah, absolutely.
I think ultimately it's their

283
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,280
decision.
Genuinely, it's their decision.

284
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:55,600
It's actually not my decision at
all.

285
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,560
I think on a whole it's, it's
probably better.

286
00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:00,280
We should because it worked, by
the way, even though parents

287
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,520
were like have pushed back 20
years ago, like, oh, we

288
00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:03,840
shouldn't be telling them
because now, now they know how

289
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,160
to do it and they'll definitely
go to do it.

290
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,240
That wasn't true.
Actually, the, the numbers came

291
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,480
way down.
It was a huge success teaching

292
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,760
children younger, you know,
about sex and how and how their

293
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,840
body changes and things.
So I do think it's a good thing.

294
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,080
But ultimately, if a parent came
in to me and said, my child's

295
00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,920
really not ready for this, I'll
have this conversation with them

296
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:19,920
in a year or two when they're
ready.

297
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,680
I'm not going to be like, well,
actually, no, because it's part

298
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:23,440
of the curriculum.
And I think I need to deliver

299
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,960
this, this, this lesson about
testicles to your child.

300
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,080
Like, obviously not.
I'll just be like, OK, fair

301
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:29,520
enough.
So the parents do have the

302
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,440
ultimate decision.
I think they should have the

303
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,640
ultimate decision, but I'll
always be more on the side of,

304
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,040
oh, let's do it, though.
Yes, let's, let's teach them.

305
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,200
Let's, you know, just let's
educate them on their bodies,

306
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:39,640
particularly puberty to be.
Fair.

307
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:40,840
That's, I completely agree with
that.

308
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,000
I think that to be fair, I'd say
you need to, you kind of need to

309
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,080
get over it and we're going to
teach the children the anatomy

310
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:48,440
of the body there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

311
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,240
So one of the I'll give you just
a chat about puberty because I

312
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:52,440
think it's really interesting.
Well, thank you.

313
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:53,640
Please tell me.
Because I think you don't know

314
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,560
much and I think you need to be
enlightened.

315
00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,160
You said you didn't learn about
stuff when you were at school

316
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,160
about sex and things.
Obviously you probably still

317
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:00,920
don't know.
So I can.

318
00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,160
I can.
If you want to do it, yeah.

319
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,800
Thank you, I know people listen
but you do it outside.

320
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,400
That's fine.
That's fine, no different

321
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,680
thousands.
Of people no, no, it's fine

322
00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:08,440
don't worry it's all right man I
don't embarrass you OK they're

323
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,480
awkward in front people but
puberty right so our school and

324
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,120
I think it's the same a lot of
schools we we have the kids

325
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,880
mixed for most of the lessons in
this SRE topic but when it comes

326
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,720
to puberty and we're talking
about like specific changes in

327
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,480
through the body we do separate
the kids and a lot of people go

328
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,200
why don't you separate the kids
the boys need to learn about the

329
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,440
girls We we all do the same
lesson we just give them we just

330
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,000
separate them so they can feel a
little bit more open to the idea

331
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,240
of asking questions and maybe
not worrying about that sat next

332
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,760
to someone of this gender who
might who might like be like

333
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,320
that's weird I don't have that
yeah yeah, so and it does work

334
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,320
so when we separate the boys and
girls we teach them about both

335
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,240
genders equally right.
They just have a bit more of a

336
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,600
safe space to ask about things
and we do find that the girls

337
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,200
end up talking a bit more about
like periods and the boys end up

338
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,160
talking a bit more about their.
Own.

339
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,200
I wonder why?
Yeah, yeah, of course.

340
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,240
Obviously I completely.
Agree.

341
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,080
I always say to the kids, and
again, this is me just with my

342
00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,680
opinions on teaching SRE and I
think this is so important and I

343
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:01,920
obviously I always teach the
boys.

344
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,600
I think it's so important that
we do our prop up huge chunk

345
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,480
about the girls.
We don't just gloss over it

346
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:08,960
like, Oh yeah, the girls have
periods and stuff.

347
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,680
Let's crack on with the boys
stuff because you're boys.

348
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,360
I always say to the boys, it
like it's 2025 at the moment.

349
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,200
You, you cannot grow up being
ignorant of half the population

350
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,280
and how their bodies are
changing.

351
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,360
Girls that are not going to want
to be your friends or your

352
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,880
boyfriend or girlfriends or
whatever it is if you don't,

353
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:26,960
even if you're just completely
ignorant to what, to their needs

354
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:28,880
and stuff.
Like you shouldn't be going at

355
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,400
something just because you don't
know about it.

356
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:31,880
And the boys are always oh,
yeah, yeah, yeah.

357
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,360
Because it's really immature,
isn't it?

358
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:34,800
Otherwise it's really mature to
be like that.

359
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,080
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't want to be immature.

360
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,600
I don't want to be immature.
And the girls equally learn

361
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,560
about the boys, right?
And then I always say to the

362
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:43,080
boys, this is something that
happened this year.

363
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,920
I was like, so you told we're
going to be respectful.

364
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,520
Aren't we not going to go up to
the girls and be like, we

365
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,000
learned about periods.
That's gross.

366
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,800
Don't do that.
That's ridiculous.

367
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,120
And then what did the girls,
what do the girls do outside in

368
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:53,480
the background?
The boys come in to me saying

369
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,880
they've been disrespectful
because they saw a video or an

370
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,480
animation or a pitch or
whatever, something to do with

371
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,400
like boys having erections
because that's part of it.

372
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:04,440
They were coming up to the boys
and going like this with their

373
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,000
hand.
And I was like, Oh my God, no.

374
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,160
So I had to take all the girls
aside.

375
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,000
I was like, you know how it'd be
really annoying if the boys all

376
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,160
like, started taking the Mick
out of something you can't even

377
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,760
control?
Can you not do that for the boys

378
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,160
as well?
Because otherwise this is just

379
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,160
like, it's just ridiculous.
It's so important to say it, I

380
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:21,120
think.
Yeah, completely.

381
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,960
And that knowledge is key.
Like, you know, you just the

382
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,840
more, the more you teach about
something, the more you talk

383
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,640
about something less awkward.
It becomes that first 5 minutes

384
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,280
whenever you do SRE is that time
where the kids are smirking,

385
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:33,560
they're laughing, they're
turning to each other.

386
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,400
My teachers talking about penis
isn't that funny?

387
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,360
And then immediately it's like,
yeah, I am.

388
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,840
And they're like, and you just
keep going, yeah, I'm talking

389
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,840
about penis.
And eventually they go, all

390
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,200
right, yeah, OK, cool.
And then you teach, oh, it's not

391
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,440
funny anymore.
Exactly. 42 times because it's

392
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,480
an appendage.
You have an arm.

393
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,840
If you were teaching SRA in year
6, I know you've not actually

394
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,520
taught SRA in year 6 before.
No, I've taught in Year 5.

395
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,400
Yeah, so to be fair, it's
probably the same sort of thing.

396
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,920
So when What's your opinion on
when kids smirk and laugh?

397
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,760
I'm not bothered in the class.
Yeah, completely.

398
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,520
I'm good.
They're going to it.

399
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,600
Are we going to pretend that
it's not funny for a 10 year old

400
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,080
who's heard this taboo subject
that's never been talked about

401
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:12,760
beforehand?
And it's like, oh, we can't.

402
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,360
We can't know what, can't say
that word because as a society

403
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,760
would just have this weird aura
around.

404
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,480
Taboo.
Yeah, it's just like, it's just

405
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,280
not, you know, saying the word
penis.

406
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,360
If you walked into a classroom
and said the word penis,

407
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,680
children would smack enough.
Yeah, if you walked into a

408
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,040
classroom and said the word arm,
no one would bat an eyelid

409
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,560
because obviously it comes with
so many extra connotations and

410
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:33,560
part.
And I'm not saying that's right

411
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,480
or wrong, but if I'm teaching
SRE, I'm not going to walk into

412
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,400
a room and say, right, guys,
we're going to learn about how a

413
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,880
penis works today.
And if a child started laughing

414
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,640
me, excuse me, how dare you
laugh at the penis, penis,

415
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,280
whatever.
No, just let them do it.

416
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,120
Let them get over it, almost
give them a couple of minutes

417
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:51,200
where you're like, okay, go on
in.

418
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,120
What a penis?
What do you call it?

419
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:54,520
What, what's another word for
it?

420
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,040
What have we heard it called
before in in our language?

421
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,600
And there's always 10 different
things you call it and you just

422
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,040
get them to get over it, get out
of their system, laugh about it.

423
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,040
And the difference comes when if
they're being rude, if they're

424
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,120
being misbehaved, if they're
turning around, disrupting their

425
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,840
friends.
That's part of a lesson culture

426
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,000
that we have when we don't do
that, don't misbehave.

427
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,080
Understand if you can smirk and
you're a bit awkward, obviously

428
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:16,000
I'm going to tape off for doing
that.

429
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:17,960
I agree.
I just, I just simply, I think

430
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,080
it's part of the process of
teaching.

431
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,680
SRE is breaking those barriers
down and in doing that children

432
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,680
will be smirking and laughing.
Yeah, if something's awkward for

433
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,160
me, I smoke and laugh.
Exactly.

434
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,280
It's quite a normal reaction.
And I say to the kids, like you

435
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,040
say, I'm glad you said that
because I also tried to make the

436
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,480
distinction between that line
where it's like, yeah, you can

437
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,320
smoke because it's awkward.
But if you turn around your

438
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,400
mates and start being like going
like wee and trying to get them

439
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:37,920
to laugh, now you're just
misbehaving.

440
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,440
You're being rude.
Like yeah, you're awkward, but

441
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,000
you don't need to turn it into
bad behaviour because you're

442
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,040
feeling awkward.
Yeah, definitely.

443
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,560
Well, talking about feeling
awkward.

444
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,080
Oh, my God.
Yeah.

445
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,280
So I, I have to say about this,
right.

446
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,280
So normally in the school, we
have visitors come around all

447
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:51,840
the time.
Very, very standard.

448
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,040
This week, though, when I'm
teaching sex Ed, I don't really

449
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,640
want, like, visitors with young
children come around to view,

450
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,280
you know, perspectives to view
the school, of course, obviously

451
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,360
not.
We're teaching sex Ed.

452
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,960
So what happens, Dylan, right,
is I'm in the middle of teaching

453
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,480
in my lovely puberty sex Ed
lesson.

454
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,880
And the kids sort of go, oh, Mr
Stevens.

455
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,680
And they can see out.
There's a little window, right?

456
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,359
They can see our teach, our head
teachers coming with some

457
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:17,800
parents.
And I was like, oh, no, not the

458
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,079
time.
Surely he knows.

459
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,280
Surely he knows.
This is like the only time

460
00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:22,880
really.
It's inappropriate to, like, be

461
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,200
be bringing parents and kids
into this classroom.

462
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,320
And what does he do?
Opens the door, comes in.

463
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,520
So this is Mr Stevens.
He says it's a bit of an awkward

464
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:32,680
time.
I said, yeah, a little bit.

465
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:33,960
I turn around.
What's on the board?

466
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:39,560
Massive picture of a testicle,
45 kids staring at a testicle,

467
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,520
head teacher with some parents.
I don't know.

468
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,680
Luckily, luckily, Dylan, it
wasn't parents at all.

469
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,520
I had teachers said, oh, no, no,
it's just some visitors from a

470
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:48,800
local school.
Like, we have a connection with

471
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,920
this school.
They were just coming around to

472
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,120
see what we're doing.
I knew what you were doing.

473
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:52,280
I wouldn't have brought parents
in there.

474
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,720
And I'm like, yo, thanks for
telling me, though.

475
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:54,800
I would have liked to have
known.

476
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,320
So, yeah, hilariously awkward,
the kids.

477
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:58,840
It was so funny how the kids
knew, though.

478
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,640
They knew.
They were like, Oh no, this is

479
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:01,920
this can't happen.
This is not appropriate.

480
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,160
Yeah.
Because the rules at the start,

481
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,080
which is quite sweet actually,
because I do say to them, some

482
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,800
rules at the start of like this
is this is we didn't teach this

483
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,840
in Year 5 for a reason.
Like we didn't, you cannot go

484
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,800
out to the playground now and be
sharing this information with

485
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,440
younger children, otherwise we
would have teached it to them at

486
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:15,720
this point.
Like teach very much.

487
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,600
But we would have teach teaching
it to the children.

488
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,440
We're teaching them that fish
don't have penises.

489
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,440
Yeah.
They can learn that, but they

490
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,880
can't learn about puberty yet.
So we know we just have that

491
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,400
generic rule.
So it's nice that they're aware,

492
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,320
like, oh, someone's about to
come in with younger children.

493
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:30,320
They can't.
They can't be here.

494
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:31,760
Also, get the testicle off the
board.

495
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,280
Massive testicle on the board.
We're just seeing about how

496
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,480
sperm flow through the testicle.
Probably not something

497
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,080
appropriate.
Yeah.

498
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:40,720
Good times.
Brilliant.

499
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,240
I am.
Those same people came through

500
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:43,960
my classroom, actually.
They're really nice, really

501
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,600
lovely people.
It was on your board, man.

502
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,920
And that was on my board was
some very hastily written silent

503
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,480
reading because it's one of the
kids coming quietly.

504
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,200
I always do that.
Nothing on the board.

505
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,880
Silent reading.
When you write something on the

506
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,280
board but don't say anything.
It's hilarious how when one

507
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,040
person notices.
Oh, yeah, your whole classic,

508
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,720
The board.
Shut the board.

509
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,800
Look at the board, Mr Bryce.
Put something on the board guys

510
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,680
and they go quite so quickly say
reading and they came they came

511
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,680
in came through obviously and
then later on I caught up with a

512
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,560
head teacher and I said who who
are they like because they

513
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,000
obviously weren't with children.
I'm used to children touring the

514
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,600
school and maybe joining and and
he is just saying about how

515
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,200
they're all the local teachers
who've come just we're working

516
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,000
with them in this group that
we've got etcetera, and they're

517
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,360
really nice They were lovely
they walked through I I like it

518
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:27,480
when people come through my
lesson.

519
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,280
I actually do enjoy it because I
want them to see the kids

520
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,520
learning and happy and I think
it's a good thing and how good

521
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,320
you are.
No, no, no, no, that's just like

522
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,320
a byproduct Hayden, that
byproduct.

523
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:37,960
They think that when they come
through, that's why not.

524
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,040
But I like, I like adults in the
room because I just think it

525
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,720
gives the children a chance to
explain their learning.

526
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,200
She'll talk about it.
I like to see that.

527
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,520
Anyway, afterwards he said, oh,
yeah, yeah.

528
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,200
Before he went in, I said, oh,
this is Dylan Price in this

529
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,560
classroom, our maths lead.
And then one of the people

530
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,200
walking around said, Oh yeah, I
know him from, from Top Dog

531
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,280
Tutoring.
That's the tutoring.

532
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,520
He doesn't.
He and I listen to his podcast,

533
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,280
actually.
I follow them on Instagram.

534
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:00,560
Wasn't he on Who Wants to Be
Millionaire?

535
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,960
Oh.
My God, your whole life, is

536
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,640
there anything else to you?
Is that it?

537
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,560
I think someone just.
Summarised everything about you.

538
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:08,880
Yeah, I think so.
I may have got a child.

539
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,120
Yeah.
But it was just, it was really

540
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,520
funny because then I had a
teacher in every interaction

541
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,400
I've had ever since, knowing
that obviously I'm leaving at

542
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:16,680
the end of the year, it's like
you'll be all right.

543
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,120
You've got your media career on
the way.

544
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:21,000
That's.
So funny, I bet.

545
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:23,360
Did you feel a little bit smug?
No, no, not.

546
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:24,240
Smug.
Not smug.

547
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,640
I actually.
I actually fund.

548
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,800
I feel awkward every single time
and I know we do this social

549
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,240
media stuff, we do this podcast
with you guys every single time

550
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,040
that someone brings it up in a
situation that's different.

551
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,640
So for example, in my school
life, I don't about you.

552
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,240
When I'm at school, I genuinely,
honestly don't talk about the

553
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,880
podcast or the tutoring or
anything on the side.

554
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,360
And I I really struggle with the
overlap.

555
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,800
So when someone comes in and
said, oh, you do all this, don't

556
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,640
you do the podcast and all the
tutoring and stuff on the

557
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,480
outside and you've been, I'm
like, yeah, because.

558
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:56,880
You're in your teaching
personality.

559
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:57,520
Yeah.
So that's.

560
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,320
Exclusive I don't want anyone to
think that whilst I'm in my

561
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,000
teaching mode, I've got my mind
elsewhere thinking about my my

562
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,360
children, because I don't When
I'm in, when I'm in my mode as

563
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,040
teaching in school, I'm teaching
to those kids.

564
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,920
They're my everything right now.
I want to help them as much as.

565
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,760
Possible.
I do forget sometimes how

566
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,640
hilariously awkward you as a
baseline.

567
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,280
Oh, yeah.
Like, because we do this sort of

568
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:14,640
stuff.
Yeah.

569
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,480
And obviously we put on a bit of
an act like this is a show

570
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:17,520
almost isn't.
It's a podcast.

571
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,840
Right.
But your baseline is so

572
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,320
hilariously awkward around,
like, in new situations with

573
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,400
people or something.
Just breaks that boundary that

574
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,120
you've set in your head that no
one else knows about, by the

575
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:28,480
way, and completely, completely
made-up in your mind.

576
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,840
And someone breaks it and you're
like, oh God, Horribly awkward.

577
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:31,920
Yeah, I can't deal with it.
I can't do it.

578
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,360
It's a word for it.
I think there is a word for.

579
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:38,000
It I think there might be.
It begins with an A, and it's

580
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,800
not amazing, but yeah, I think
it's very clear that I struggle

581
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,080
with that kind of thing and
people are just being so lovely.

582
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,400
Those people walking around was
so nice and I enjoyed them being

583
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,400
there.
But then there's the idea that

584
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,360
they said, oh, isn't that this
guy who does this other thing?

585
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,360
I'm like.
Yeah, but I'm not in that mode

586
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:55,120
right now, so I can't actually
interact with you.

587
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:57,080
So I'm sorry, but I'm going to
back to teaching about fish

588
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:58,400
penises.
Goodbye, everybody.

589
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,040
Do we do some silent reading in
the class, please?

590
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,520
But I can't go to this.
Yeah.

591
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,440
Meanwhile, I'll go on Year 6
Presidential.

592
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,040
Yeah, I got recognised again by.
No, not again.

593
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,920
Oh, you're just regurgitating
the same story about your.

594
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,280
But you've just immediately Pooh
poohed my story.

595
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,000
No, not Pooh.
You made it sound awful by sound

596
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:13,880
again.
And I said no.

597
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,600
No, I'm just exposing the fact
that you got recognised once and

598
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,960
you've dined out on it for about
5 years.

599
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,920
I got recognised one time on a
residential and a kid said are

600
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,600
you that guy from YouTube?
And I was like, yes, that's me.

601
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,080
Yes, that's me.
And I made sure all the kids in

602
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,800
my class knew what.
School are you with what's good

603
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,360
yeah don't wait go and tell your
teacher come with me for the day

604
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,560
you're gonna walk around and say
it's this guy from YouTube

605
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,400
please you make a placard hold
it up it's the guy from YouTube

606
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,080
it's the guy from YouTube
because I'm going to talk about

607
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:37,960
this for the.
Next five years.

608
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,640
The most pleasing moment was
when my class said what did that

609
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,400
guy want?
I'll tell you what that guy just

610
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,640
said.
I will tell you all what that

611
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,400
guy, everybody here listen, this
guy just recognised me from

612
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,600
YouTube.
I am your teacher though, and I

613
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,240
am famous.
They do fit your favourite.

614
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,600
They did love it honestly.
When you're fit.

615
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,960
We've got like YouTube 30 odd
1000 subscribers on YouTube.

616
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,600
They have they'll make it like a
YouTube account with their

617
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,400
parents account waiver and have
like 1 subscriber but I got 1

618
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,280
subscriber and I'm like.
That's cute, kid.

619
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:07,800
Yes, watch my stats walkthrough.
Yeah, 30K baby.

620
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,200
Literally, you're not getting.
Close to this, but they do think

621
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,640
that's like, that's like fame.
Level.

622
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,440
Yeah, yeah, Completely,
completely.

623
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,600
It's not.
It's not really clear to

624
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,240
everyone.
It's not remotely right.

625
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,800
Let's play the jingo.
I've got a little writing from

626
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:20,880
someone I want to talk to you
about.

627
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,000
We always get messages in from
listeners.

628
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:25,880
Absolutely love it.
Guys.

629
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,080
Go to our Instagram at Teach
Sleep Repeat Podcast.

630
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,640
Go to our TikTok at Teach Sleep
Repeat podcast, sends a message

631
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:32,840
because we love reading through
them.

632
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:35,040
Every now and then.
One of them just piques my

633
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,520
interest and it's perfect for
the show.

634
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,720
I want to read it to you,
Hayden, and see what you think.

635
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,760
So we've got this lovely message
from one of our listeners.

636
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,720
Hi Hayden and Dylan.
Hayden first.

637
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,480
That turned me off immediately,
but I kept reading.

638
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,400
Don't worry.
I don't know if I'm just being

639
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,280
oversensitive or if this is
genuinely unfair, but I'd really

640
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,400
love your thoughts.
I've just found out that I'll be

641
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,280
moving classrooms again for the
third year in a row.

642
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,520
I've been in year 4 for the past
couple of years and had to move

643
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,680
last time because of a
logistical thing that our school

644
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,000
had to face.
But now I'm being moved up to

645
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,760
year 6, which means a brand new
classroom.

646
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,440
Most other staff are staying
put, some have been in the same

647
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,840
room and year group for years
now and it just feels like I've

648
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,200
drawn the short straw.
No one's actually told me to

649
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,360
come in over the summer, but the
expectation is obviously there

650
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,720
to move everything, get the
classroom ready and be ready for

651
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,240
September.
I also need to plan for a

652
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,840
completely new year group
because I'm moving to year 6.

653
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,280
I know that I'll be expected to
do SAT booster groups this year

654
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,440
as well as going on the
residential.

655
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,520
I've always been someone who
says yes just get stuck in,

656
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,360
doesn't try and kick up a fuss,
but this just feels a little bit

657
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:42,640
unfair, like I'm being taken for
granted because I'm capable and

658
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,880
I'm someone who won't complain.
I don't want to be negative but

659
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,960
I do feel overwhelmed before the
new year has even started.

660
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,920
I'm just wondering is this
normal?

661
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,040
Should I just crack on or is it
OK to push back a little bit?

662
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,600
Completely justified, isn't it?
Like even when when they

663
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,280
doubled, it was bad enough when
they said they've got a move

664
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,560
room and there's no time
allocated for it.

665
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:00,480
We can talk about that in a
second.

666
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,320
But when you've got other things
like residential and the other

667
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,960
bits they mentioned, I think
it's completely justified to

668
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,640
say, hang on a minute.
There is quite a significant

669
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,000
amount of extra workload here
that is pretty much exclusive to

670
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,360
me and maybe a couple of other
people.

671
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,920
I don't really think I should be
do it in my own time.

672
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,600
Like we like we're teachers,
right?

673
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,520
We already all give enough
grace.

674
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,560
Like seriously, if, if I, if I
had to come in one day in

675
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,760
summer, I'd probably would just
be like, OK, right.

676
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,840
If I can do what I need to do in
one day, I'll maybe go over it,

677
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,720
right.
But if it was every three years

678
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,720
in a row and my colleagues
haven't had to do it once and it

679
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,720
was just expected that I came in
and did that three years in a

680
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,760
row, they probably, I mean, me
being me at this point in my

681
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,800
career, I probably purposely
just not do it.

682
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,320
And then September would start
and I'd be like day one.

683
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,920
My classroom's still in the old
place, like.

684
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,360
Yeah, but here's here's the
thing.

685
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:48,000
You just wouldn't.
Yeah, because you're that kind

686
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,000
of person.
You'd say that.

687
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,360
You would.
You would say that, and that's

688
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:51,520
fine.
And then you'd make that point.

689
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,560
I think you'd push back.
But ultimately for your kids,

690
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,760
and this is the problem I guess
we face in teaching a lot of the

691
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,720
time, I actually know that you
wouldn't do that.

692
00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,840
Yeah.
You would have your classroom

693
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,360
ready for September no matter
what you say.

694
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:02,840
I'd say it, Dylan.
Yeah, you'd say it.

695
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,440
Or do some sort of hybrid.
I think I'd be more confident

696
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,040
now doing doing something where
I'm like, you know what?

697
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,040
All right, the end of the school
year, I'll move all my stuff out

698
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,560
of my current room so someone
can actually get in here,

699
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,680
because that would be quite
harsh on the other person trying

700
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,560
to move into my room because I'm
like, no making a stand.

701
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,520
But I probably would not do my
whole classroom.

702
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,440
And then when in September, if
they came, if they dared come

703
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,520
round and do like a a learning
walk in the first week and pull.

704
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,360
So the fact that I had no
displays up yet, I'd be like,

705
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,600
when, when do you think I was
going to do that?

706
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,640
Please tell me.
I find that with toxic SLT like

707
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,600
that, if you could, if you just
challenge them back and say OK,

708
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,520
what's the solution?
Because there is no solution,

709
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,720
they can't say anything.
They either break the rules and

710
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:39,680
say you should have it in summer
you.

711
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,320
Stand at 8 baby, you do
everything I say.

712
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,760
Yeah, that's true.
But I either say I tell you, oh,

713
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,280
you do it your own time, or they
realise they absolutely can't do

714
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,680
that and say that and then they
just start going like okay or.

715
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:50,840
Just needs to get done, doesn't
it?

716
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,200
Just need to get done though,
doesn't it?

717
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,400
Because we've agreed this is the
rule.

718
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,440
Yeah, it does.
When do you want me to do it?

719
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That you just keep.

720
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:58,760
No, no, we need to do though,
Hayden.

721
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,040
Yeah, we'll call when.
Yeah, just whenever you can,

722
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:01,800
really.
OK.

723
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,200
Well, I can't because I've got
lessons to teach, so maybe next

724
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,040
time.
Yeah, sure.

725
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,200
No, it has to be done now
though.

726
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:08,280
So I understand you've not got
much time, but it does need to

727
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,400
be done.
Yeah, fair enough.

728
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,120
Well, if I get some time out of
class, I'll do it.

729
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,720
Yeah, no time, no cover, mate.
I'm sorry that you've seen the

730
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,240
state schools are in right now.
There's absolutely no money for

731
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:16,640
cover.
What?

732
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,400
Sorry, I'm getting a call from
the executive CEO.

733
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,680
Yeah, yeah, that's fine.
Yeah.

734
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:21,960
Go to your appointment.
That's no problem.

735
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,600
Yeah, that's fine.
You've got no lesson to teach.

736
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,600
Yeah, we just don't have time to
cover you.

737
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,800
I'm afraid we have no one that
could possibly cover you.

738
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,520
No.
OK, well, fair enough.

739
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,480
Well, I guess we have to do the
classroom another time, but I

740
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,120
can still teach my lesson.
Another time could be after

741
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:34,080
school today, couldn't it?
Right.

742
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,000
See you later.
Bye.

743
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,640
See ya.
Yeah, that is that is what was

744
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,600
being satirical, but it kind of
is the truth.

745
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,360
So it's hard.
So this going back to this

746
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:43,840
person feeling a bit awkward and
feeling like it's a difficult

747
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,960
situation, 100% it's a difficult
situation.

748
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,480
Everyone's put in a difficult
situation when it comes to just

749
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,840
being expected to do work.
Do you, do you think I actually

750
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,040
want to know your opinion on
this?

751
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,920
Because obviously it is part of
the job moving year groups.

752
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,320
Like when you become a teacher,
I don't think anyone expects to

753
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,360
be like cool, the year group I
get put in first is that's my

754
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:01,960
whole career.
I'm in year 3 this year.

755
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,040
That's I guess that's it for the
next 25 years.

756
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,600
Like we all know it's completely
normal and reasonable to be

757
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,040
moved around year groups.
So what are your thoughts then

758
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,040
on some people being moved and
other people not being moved?

759
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,160
I think you have to just have it
at the forefront of your mind

760
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,440
when you make this decision
because this decision has been

761
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,200
made.
OK, so I'm going to make the

762
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,800
comparison to moving classrooms
because I think that is just,

763
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,080
that's a preference, right?
In terms of it can be literally

764
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,480
within the same year group.
And I've heard of schools before

765
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,400
who simply want the classrooms
in a certain order in terms of

766
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,720
the form that they're in.
It's like I want this to be in

767
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,080
the order of blue and then green
and then yellow and then red,

768
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,840
because then it's the same as
year 4 and it's the same as year

769
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,680
2.
And they're forcing teachers to

770
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,200
move classroom within the year
group simply so.

771
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:46,840
Even moving to a different.
Year, right?

772
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,440
That is, that is like insane to
me.

773
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,920
And if you want to make that
call, it's fair enough, but you

774
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,200
have to build in time for
teachers to achieve that.

775
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,360
You can't just make that call
and then they sacrifice days of

776
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,800
their summer holidays.
That's wrong.

777
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,240
But however, I do think you're
absolutely right when you say

778
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,320
moving year group is part of
being a primary school teacher.

779
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,320
And you do have to do that.
But what I would say is that

780
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,040
you'd be hoping to work in an
environment where it's very

781
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,440
normal that planning is shared.
It's absolutely normal that

782
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,920
planning's put on on a shared
area online for anyone to

783
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,760
access.
So for example, I know for a

784
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,160
fact in my score, if I needed
to, I could go into the year 6

785
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,200
planning and use it.
So if I was moving year groups

786
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,080
next year and going to a
different year group, there

787
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,480
would be an established set of
planning already there for me to

788
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:28,960
access.
And.

789
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:29,920
Use.
That's one burden.

790
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,880
It's kind of removed.
And that's fine.

791
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,600
And I think my biggest issue
with what this person's writing

792
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,760
in to say is that I know there
are schools out there where if

793
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,920
she went to SLT and said, look,
this is this is kind of unfair.

794
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,680
My workload's gone through the
roof.

795
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,360
I've got to plan everything from
scratch because there isn't that

796
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,400
shared aspect of the planning.
Or you've made a rule that says

797
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,800
you need to replan everything
every year and it's just not

798
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,600
built in that, OK, cool.
Well, I'm going to year 6.

799
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,800
The other year six teachers have
their things from last year and

800
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,920
a starting point and I don't.
And that means my workload's

801
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,200
gone up a lot.
I know, I know there are leaders

802
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,360
out there who will look at that
and go, do you know that?

803
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,360
Do you know what?
That is unfair, isn't it?

804
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,640
That is so unfair that you're
doing more work than everyone

805
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,840
else.
One second, let me just put out

806
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,360
an announcement to everyone.
Hello, everyone.

807
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,440
Well, we've got someone here
who's doing a lot of work and

808
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,600
their workload's really high.
So I've come up with a solution.

809
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,360
Everyone's workload needs to go
up.

810
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:24,280
We're not doing any planning
now.

811
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,760
Everyone needs to plan from
scratch from the start.

812
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,440
Now everyone's work planning
needs to go up.

813
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,800
Everyone's workload needs to go
up so that it's fair.

814
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,400
What that you've given me a
flashback because I remember at

815
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,520
times really early in my career
where this that exact thing

816
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,960
happened.
But with PPA, it was that's

817
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,600
right.
So we had like an inset day or

818
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,520
for whatever bank holiday maybe
and like people on the Monday

819
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,360
didn't get their PPA because we
weren't in school.

820
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,040
So the solution, the solution to
that was not to rearrange their

821
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,080
PPA to another time.
It was to say no one gets PPA in

822
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,880
this week because it's not fair.
It's not fair that year 4 didn't

823
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,440
get their PPA.
So year three-year five, year

824
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,880
six, you don't get your PPA
either to keep it nice and fair

825
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,040
and balanced.
And I remember at the time being

826
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,920
really new to the job being
like, oh, OK, I guess so users

827
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,480
accept it.
You know, you it's hard to

828
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,960
challenge stuff and you don't
really know the status quite.

829
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,240
Yeah, sure.
I was like, oh, I guess that's

830
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,120
just a thing.
I don't get PPA this week then.

831
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,760
OK, fair enough.
We've got a shorter week.

832
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,600
I suppose I did get that Bank
Holiday Monday off.

833
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,680
I could have done it then.
And you start going into that

834
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,080
line of thinking.
No, let's establish this.

835
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,360
This winds me up so much.
And people say, well you had the

836
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,040
bank holiday off, didn't you?
So you could have done it then

837
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,080
could have.
Then you worked, then you had an

838
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,440
extra day off, didn't you?
A lovely lucky boy had an extra

839
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,760
day off.
No, there are 190 days in the

840
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,080
school year with the children.
If there is a bank holiday along

841
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,640
the way, it's not an extra day
off.

842
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,960
It gets tagged onto the end.
We have the same amount of work

843
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,520
to do with the children every
single.

844
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,280
Year so let's make this really
clear deal and so let's say

845
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:42,880
there was a year like there was
a couple of years ago where we

846
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,400
had an extra bank holiday so the
usual amount of bank holidays

847
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,600
tagged into the middle of the
year.

848
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:47,960
How does that affect our school
days it.

849
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,200
Gets it.
OK, cool.

850
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,880
You get that time off, but it's
tagged onto the end, right?

851
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,240
There's a statutory requirement
by law that you have 190 days

852
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,560
with the children.
That doesn't change all the bank

853
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,440
holidays.
The bank holiday, it was in the

854
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:01,880
half term.
We get mugged off again.

855
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,800
No, we don't.
Yeah, it works both ways.

856
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,960
Like you can't get the bank
holiday in term time and then be

857
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,560
like, oh, aren't we lucky?
And then get the bank holiday in

858
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,120
half term time, be like, oh,
aren't we unlucky, missing out

859
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,120
on the bank holiday?
No, both wrong.

860
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,680
Yeah, we get 190 days in the
year with the children.

861
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,400
That's that.
Because if that one in the half

862
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,840
term, what in the holidays was
actually in the school term, all

863
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,040
that would happen is another day
of school would just be tagged

864
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,400
onto the end your summer term.
Like you'd just be going to the

865
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,320
23rd, not the 22nd.
Exactly, you're doing that.

866
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:29,960
Yeah, exactly that there.
Why do you think it changes

867
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:30,600
every year?
Yeah, yeah.

868
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,880
Obviously the dates change the
things and the start dates might

869
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,240
change, but it's as simple as
that.

870
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,760
So you're telling me, Dylan,
when the king in Sax Week wanted

871
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,160
to put a crown on his head and
give everyone a day off, we

872
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,280
didn't actually get a day off,
It just got tagged onto the end.

873
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,640
Well, I certainly hope so after
recording this whole part of the

874
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,040
podcast.
And that was the game.

875
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,160
Yeah, but as far as I'm aware
190 days are needed.

876
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,280
It just gets rearranged and
shuffled around a bit.

877
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,800
It's as simple as that.
But for this person, ultimately

878
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,160
what I would say is moving
classroom.

879
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,600
I think schools should give
teachers time to move classroom

880
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,320
because that is fundamentally a
choice that the school have made

881
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,480
and and it's not the teachers
fault that they move and someone

882
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,160
else doesn't.
Don't just suck it up, it is

883
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,960
extra.
Give them time to do that.

884
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,240
If I wasn't moving classroom and
you were, I would be grateful

885
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,320
that you got that time out.
And I wouldn't expect it to be

886
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,880
the same for me.
I'm not doing that job, which is

887
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,520
moving a classroom.
And in terms of moving a year

888
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,800
group, I think you have to build
and establish a shared kind of

889
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,760
body of work or at least a team.
Or if you can't do that for

890
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,440
whatever reason, if you are
moving someone, give them some

891
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,400
grace, give them some leeway.
If things aren't perfect

892
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:35,600
straight away, it doesn't
matter.

893
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,240
I think a lot of amazing leaders
do that.

894
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,560
I think a lot of really good
leaders would say, yeah, that's

895
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:40,960
more than fair, let's make this
work.

896
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,360
But I do need you to move
classrooms and I do need you to

897
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,720
move year groups.
All of it can be fair.

898
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,720
It's just when something in
these situations is kind of

899
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,360
taken for granted, like this
person won't kick up a fast and

900
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,400
would just crack on.
Those people tend to have the

901
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,040
Mick taken out of them a lot
more because it's easier for

902
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,440
leaders to be like, well,
they're not going to move you,

903
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,440
are they Hayden?
If they're going to move you or

904
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,440
someone else who'll just crack
on and do it from a leader's

905
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,680
headache point of view, they're
going to go for the other person

906
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,680
every time.
And that's also bad.

907
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,000
And people like us and people
who aren't targeted and people

908
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,840
who aren't in there getting the
short straw need to be the

909
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,719
loudest, I think, in order to
protect those colleagues who

910
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,040
are.
And instead of just going, oh,

911
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,560
head down, ignore that.
It's not me.

912
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,320
So it's not me.
I'll just stay out of this

913
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:22,960
because I'm not.
It'll be you one day.

914
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:24,760
Yeah.
So stick your neck out and look

915
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,920
out for them and make sure they
get the extra help they need.

916
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,920
Definitely, I agree.
Let's play the Jingle and do

917
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:30,920
what we're actually talking
about.

918
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,639
Oh, it's our last week of
teaching.

919
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,199
Oh.
This is it, Hayden.

920
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,679
We are in our final full week of
teaching and we're going to talk

921
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:46,480
about our feelings, our
thoughts, and ultimately whether

922
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,560
or not we think we're making a
mistake.

923
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,600
So I want to get straight into
your raw emotions right now, at

924
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,760
this point in the year, we've
made our decision to leave.

925
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,840
It's on the precipice of
happening.

926
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,000
How do you feel?
Heartless cold, Couldn't care

927
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,240
less.
I'm a teacher.

928
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,600
I'm a teacher, Dylan, don't you
know this profession is filled

929
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,240
with people who are ruthless
business.

930
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:08,360
People sure okay, let's go in
the tick tock comments so people

931
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,320
have no idea what it's like, how
you actually feel yeah.

932
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,960
I feel very up and down, like I
wasn't until basically this week

933
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,640
I was very cool with the whole
thing.

934
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,080
I was like, no, I'm confident in
my decision.

935
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,600
I've thought about this for a
long time.

936
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,560
I appreciate that.
I might feel a bit sad as I'm

937
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,880
leaving, but I'm, you know, I
was, I had a good baseline.

938
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,400
I was pretty steady.
Whereas this week I'm like all

939
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,640
over the place.
I'm like, I'm flitting between

940
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,800
that that confidence to, oh, my
God, have I made a terrible

941
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,320
mistake?
Have I overestimated myself?

942
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,000
Like I should I be doing this?
I love being with the kids.

943
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,360
This is such good.
And I'm never going to replace.

944
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:38,640
This is like the best thing I
could ever do.

945
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,000
And then I'll sit there in a
staff meeting and waste an hour

946
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,600
of my time or I'll mark books
for free hours.

947
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,040
Oh, no, I do hate this.
Yeah, I do hate load too much of

948
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,880
this job now.
It's like it's not what I think

949
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,880
it is.
And I'm just back and forth,

950
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,800
back and forth like I'm a bit of
a bit of a wreck.

951
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:53,760
You.
Do you?

952
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,040
Yeah.
I'm struggling to differentiate

953
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,280
between how I normally feel at
the end of the year, because at

954
00:35:58,280 --> 00:35:59,760
the end of the year is an
emotional time.

955
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,680
You've made bond with your
class, you've been with them for

956
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,240
a year.
You spent a lot of time with

957
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:04,680
them.
And always at this point in the

958
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,080
year, I do feel a little bit sad
because they're moving on

959
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,360
obviously, and you've you've got
to know them so well.

960
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,040
I do think I'm a step above that
though, where I get even a

961
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,520
little bit more emotional, I
guess in my head because I won't

962
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,200
get that chance to do that again
to meet a new class and build it

963
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,960
up.
And I think for me, transition

964
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,160
day was weird, not like not
doing a transition day.

965
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:27,640
That was odd because again,
that's always a highlight at the

966
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,320
end of the year for me is
meeting your next class.

967
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,800
They're all excited like rabbits
in the headlight, like eyes wide

968
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,040
open, really looking forward to
next year and a few of the year.

969
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,200
Three children who obviously
have spent the year thinking,

970
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,440
Mr. Price, the year 4 teacher
coming up to me and saying, Oh,

971
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,720
I'm so sad you're leaving.
I wanted to, I wanted you to

972
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:45,040
teach me next year and all that.
But that's, that's not.

973
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,320
And it just makes you think that
they're lying to me, making me

974
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,360
feel good, but that that that
kind of does make me kind of dip

975
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,240
a bit and be like, am I making
the right call or not?

976
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:57,320
But I get emotional.
You know what I'm like, I get

977
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,120
like, I'm absolutely fine for
ages.

978
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,040
Then suddenly I'm just like, oh
God, this is awful.

979
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,040
I don't know what's going to
happen.

980
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:04,480
So right now, yeah, mixed bag of
emotions.

981
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,560
And I think the last few days
will be tricky.

982
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,280
My class are practising
Unwritten by Natasha

983
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,880
Bedingfield.
You're an absolute banger.

984
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,360
But also when you listen to the
lyrics and it's like, Oh my God,

985
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,120
they're moving on.
And then I put it on for them to

986
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,840
practise.
And I was like, when I'm

987
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,080
watching this in the leaver
service, I need to walk out of

988
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,720
the room.
I'm I'm going to do.

989
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:23,680
I don't know what's going to
happen.

990
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,000
But thinking about you kind of
summed up nicely there where

991
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,240
it's a roller coaster of we
didn't lightly decide to quit,

992
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,480
right.
And you, you summarise it, the

993
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,640
good parts and the bad parts.
What do you think when you quit

994
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,880
you will miss the most?
I, I know the cop out answer is

995
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,520
the kids, right, But it is kind
of rooted, but it's true.

996
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,160
That is true.
Like I, I know it's like a cop

997
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,320
out answer because everyone
expects that, but I can go a

998
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,080
little bit deeper, I think
because it's not just like just

999
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,600
being with the kids.
It's not just spending time with

1000
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,280
the kids, although obviously
that is like, if you're looking

1001
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,040
at all the bits of the job,
that's clearly the best bit.

1002
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:57,960
That's why you're a teacher,
right?

1003
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,480
You didn't go, No one got into
teaching for the marking or to

1004
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,040
plan lessons.
Like no one did that.

1005
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,040
They they want to be with the
kids.

1006
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,680
But for me, it's like there's
particular those, those special

1007
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,240
relationships you make with the
children.

1008
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,360
That's the bit that makes me
feel so good.

1009
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,680
And maybe it's from a selfish
perspective of like what makes

1010
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:14,440
me.
Feel it.

1011
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:15,520
Is.
Of course it is.

1012
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,320
I knew you were going to say
that, but those particular

1013
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,640
relationships you make with
children where you know that

1014
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,120
you've made a massive impact on
their life, right?

1015
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,280
And quite often it will probably
be something subliminal like

1016
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,280
they, they, I doubt they'll
remember that moment.

1017
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,600
But hopefully through your words
and guidance and whatever you,

1018
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,120
however you can solve them.
If it's a sad situation, you've

1019
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,040
kind of planted a seed in their
mind of like resilience or

1020
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,240
confidence, like how to think
about something, how to tackle a

1021
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:45,280
problem in the future and them
being thankful for it or them

1022
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:46,600
not even thankful that's the
wrong word.

1023
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,880
Them wanting to even just share
that with you in the 1st place

1024
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,080
is what like completely fulfils
me.

1025
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,000
That's what I think I'm going to
struggle without in my life.

1026
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,560
So I think I'll miss that maybe
more than I realise.

1027
00:38:58,560 --> 00:38:59,920
Right now it's easy because I've
got it.

1028
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:00,920
So I can be like, no, I'll be
fine.

1029
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,680
But I do think a couple of years
down the line, that's going to

1030
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,760
be part of me that thinks I
really, really do just amiss

1031
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,920
being that support for the kids
and being being there for them,

1032
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,240
making those special bonds.
You're making them developing in

1033
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:17,480
more ways than understanding how
fractions work.

1034
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,360
That's the crux of it, right?
Because ultimately we can spend

1035
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,160
the next chunk of our lives, we
will do still making, you know,

1036
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,320
videos to help children with
their learning.

1037
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,440
Still got a tutoring going on
where, you know, you might work

1038
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,280
with children throughout the
throughout the year.

1039
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,840
But ultimately it's kind of
linked to mine.

1040
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,120
It's that it's that community
aspect of the school, that part

1041
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,240
of society where you're in, you
know, you are an established hub

1042
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:42,920
of help and support for children
who need it the most and for

1043
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,920
families who need it as well.
And being part of that machine,

1044
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,040
I think it's very fulfilling.
And when people say and point

1045
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,440
like teachers should do all this
because they're teachers and

1046
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,440
it's fulfilling and it's nice
and it's for the kids, they kind

1047
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,120
of have a point in that it is
all of those things.

1048
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,320
It doesn't mean that I'm going
to stop pushing for, you know,

1049
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,480
the rights of the workers and
things like that.

1050
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,360
But but they are right in terms
of that is a really nice part of

1051
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,800
the job and you're allowed to
enjoy parts of your job.

1052
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:09,560
And it can still be a job even
though it's a nice thing.

1053
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,960
And yeah, for me, it's that that
impact on the child.

1054
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,200
Like you're saying, we've spoken
before about how teachers

1055
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,680
actually have quite a small
impact on the attainment of

1056
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,360
children through the quality of
their teaching.

1057
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,360
There's a move there.
And obviously it's good to be a

1058
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,920
better teacher.
It's more than you think.

1059
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,400
And I, I really think that
focusing on the social aspects

1060
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,680
or the, the, the emotional
aspects of a child, that's where

1061
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,960
I've seen in the past so much
more kind of how like warmth

1062
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,240
inside of me when I noticed
that, like that Eureka moment in

1063
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:42,400
maths is great when a child
suddenly understands what

1064
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,040
exchanging is.
That's, that's, that's a good

1065
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,360
thing.
But that moment when a child who

1066
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,960
struggles to kind of understand
and control their emotions gets

1067
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,120
over the hurdle of understanding
what anger is and why they feel

1068
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,840
angry and how they can react to
that to help them and how them

1069
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,520
doing that makes them more
appealing, appealing to people

1070
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,280
sociably rather than just
throwing a hissy fit, hitting

1071
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,280
someone, moving up, no one's
going to want to play with

1072
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,800
anymore.
Seeing them develop that and

1073
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,200
have strategies and improve and
see their friendships blossom as

1074
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,640
a result.
To me, that's the ultimate

1075
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,160
version of what I want to do as
a job.

1076
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,520
And when I look back, it's those
moments that stick with me.

1077
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,920
It's those those notes you get
from the child who say, oh,

1078
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,360
thank you for being so nice to
me.

1079
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,360
Not, not, you know, that is
ultimate to me because to me,

1080
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,440
teaching it comes with the
territory that you're going to

1081
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,760
teach children how to read their
phonics, how to do maths,

1082
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,320
history.
I do think that extra mile and

1083
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,360
the thing that I appreciate so
much are those moments and and

1084
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,280
when children know that you're
there for them and can help

1085
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,200
them.
I'm going to miss that, I think.

1086
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,640
And the fact that they actually
choose you because they

1087
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:46,680
ultimately don't need to speak
to you.

1088
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,640
They can speak to someone else.
They can speak to literally

1089
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:49,960
another kid.
They can speak to another adult

1090
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,440
in the school, they speak to
parents, family.

1091
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,440
But they wanted to, they wanted
to confide in you.

1092
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,880
They they trusted you.
And yeah, there is just

1093
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,680
something special about that I'm
really going to miss.

1094
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,760
It's when they're in different
year groups as well, like you

1095
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,560
said, like they've been with
you, right?

1096
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,840
I taught Year 3 for a year and I
really remember that class

1097
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,040
vividly because one of the
children I taught in Year 3,

1098
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,800
when it came to Year 6,
obviously three years down the

1099
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,120
line and this girl left.
She came and found me and gave

1100
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,400
me a card and said thank you so
much.

1101
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,920
I was really worried about Year
3 because obviously we're Junior

1102
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,640
School.
I was worried about joining a

1103
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,320
new school.
You my first ever boy teacher is

1104
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,600
what she said.
But you made me feel comfortable

1105
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,600
and you made me laugh and I
learnt loads and I really.

1106
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,720
And then I got a note from the
parent as well and I spoke to

1107
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:32,680
the parent and he said thank you
so much for what you did.

1108
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,120
It was amazing.
But that was three years ago,

1109
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,800
and that's not a data point at
the end of the year that's

1110
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,360
making an impact on a child.
And she was in my class as well.

1111
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,280
I was livid.
I was livid.

1112
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,520
I'm.
Like right, Who can I go to?

1113
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,360
Sorry, sorry.
Can you come back please?

1114
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,760
Don't talk to him.
You're in my class.

1115
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,880
I'll have that card.
I'll have that card Parent give

1116
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:51,960
me that note.
I'll have that note give.

1117
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,880
Me that Starbucks.
Capture, honestly ridiculous.

1118
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:54,920
Yeah.
That was nice though.

1119
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,160
I remember.
I actually remember seeing that

1120
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:57,320
moment thinking that is really
sweet.

1121
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:58,400
Yeah, really sweet.
So it sounds.

1122
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,520
I think if you were listening to
this, people would be thinking,

1123
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:01,720
what?
What are you quitting then?

1124
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:02,760
What on earth are you doing?
What?

1125
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,280
You clearly love this job so
much and you're even suggesting

1126
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,280
that you might not be able to
replace that fulfilment with

1127
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:09,920
something else.
So let's talk about the opposite

1128
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,560
side then.
What part of this job Then let's

1129
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,200
go back down to reality.
I think what elements or element

1130
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,040
of this job reminds you that you
are making the right decision

1131
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,200
right now to quit teaching?
A big thing for me was that

1132
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,280
I've, I've been so lucky to work
with unbelievable people.

1133
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,280
I think teachers in general
always are going to be some

1134
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,200
people out there saying not all
of them, OK, 99% of teachers are

1135
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,400
so nice.
Like to get into this job and do

1136
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,880
it for so long and care about
the kids so much and get all

1137
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,880
those sacrifices that are built
into providing the children with

1138
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,520
all these experiences and all
this learning.

1139
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,520
They're really, really nice
people.

1140
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,640
They're amazing people.
And what really, really like

1141
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:51,320
kind of I opened it for me and I
opened up was seeing all of

1142
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,160
this, these lovely, amazing
people who I work with who

1143
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:59,560
simply cannot change their
attitudes and minds about the

1144
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,520
job.
And what I mean is basically

1145
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,360
martyrdom.
Martyrdom of sacrificing their

1146
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:10,000
own lives for the job.
And I always hated this kind of

1147
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:11,600
discussion because people push
back.

1148
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,440
And I've had it myself where I
think, oh, should we be making

1149
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,920
people feel bad for dedicating
themselves to this profession?

1150
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,960
It's a lovely, noble thing to
do, and my problem is when it

1151
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,960
impacts every single other
person in the job.

1152
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,480
I don't want to give up my
weekends every single week to

1153
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,200
replan something from scratch
that just simply doesn't need to

1154
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,040
be replanned.
I can adapt things on the spot.

1155
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,880
I can be given a skeleton plan
and teach children really well.

1156
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,960
Yeah, but Dylan, six other
members of staff in the school

1157
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:37,520
are willing to do that.
So that's the bar now.

1158
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:38,200
So.
Exactly.

1159
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,600
And that becomes the bar, it
becomes the expectation.

1160
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,680
And especially when you're in a
system where you are like

1161
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,240
sharing, planning or doing
things together and you don't

1162
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:48,040
want to do that.
You don't want to go and do 3

1163
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,240
hours extra in the evening
evening.

1164
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,000
You don't want to give up your
time to go and do a residential.

1165
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,560
I'm not leaving my family to go
and do a residential for free in

1166
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,000
a year group that I don't even
teach.

1167
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,320
It's not going to happen.
And anyone who decides to do

1168
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,920
that, all power to them.
You decided to go in

1169
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,360
residential.
You literally decided to do it

1170
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,520
and great.
And do you know what?

1171
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,080
You should get some
compensation.

1172
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,200
But I remember I did it because
I knew I'd get a Ludo back,

1173
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:12,760
right?
Exactly.

1174
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,000
If I didn't get the Ludo, I
wouldn't have gone.

1175
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,040
No.
It was a fair trade.

1176
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,680
So I was happy with.
It completely and but you've

1177
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,960
made that decision and what I
want to make really clear to

1178
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,040
people is I'm happy for people
to work and do extra in a

1179
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,520
school.
It doesn't bother me at all.

1180
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:25,600
I think it's amazing.
I think kids get really good

1181
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,400
stuff out of it.
I think it's great when people

1182
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:28,800
give up their time to do a
disco.

1183
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:32,600
It's the kids love it.
OK, it's it's volunteering in

1184
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,040
general, but you can't make
someone do it.

1185
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,200
And I think that kind of aspect,
a school which is just the

1186
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,400
ultimate example, I'll finish on
this, is the strike.

1187
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,840
OK?
In 2023, early 2023, when we

1188
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,920
started this podcast, teachers
voted to go on strike.

1189
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,200
Most schools, even 9095% of
teachers went on strike, or

1190
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,480
about 5% of teachers went on
strike because there is that big

1191
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,000
chunk of lovely people in the
middle who don't want to rock

1192
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,920
the boat, who will join the
bandwagon and jump on and

1193
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,760
strike.
Striking to me is the top of the

1194
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,080
it's the ultimate version of
what you can do to make a stance

1195
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:07,920
about something.
There's so much you can do

1196
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,080
before that and changes you can
make and refuse to do in school

1197
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:13,320
to try and make small changes,
which I feel like I've been

1198
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,680
trying to do for years now.
So many people didn't do all of

1199
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,160
that, just jumped on the strike
bandwagon, lost hundreds of

1200
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,000
pounds, came back off it when
nothing changed because they

1201
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,800
didn't change their attitude to
doing things.

1202
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,480
They were like, why has nothing
changed?

1203
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,600
Because you, Because you.
We need collective action at

1204
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,800
every single point of what we're
doing where we don't sacrifice

1205
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:33,520
for the kids.
Because I still think we can

1206
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,240
deliver amazing things for these
children and teach really well

1207
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:41,720
without having to do so many
crazy things that just eat into

1208
00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:46,160
my personal time into what is a
job that I love, but is a job

1209
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,760
and I'm just not going to do it.
And, and no matter what we did,

1210
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,000
I felt like we couldn't make any
strides in that whatsoever.

1211
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,040
So I'm like, cool, I've got to
leave.

1212
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,800
Yeah, it's like the system's so
broken and you're trying so hard

1213
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,080
to change it and people that
want to change it still aren't

1214
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:58,400
changing it.
It's like these people like

1215
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,520
there's almost like 2 categories
of martyrdom here.

1216
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,320
There are some martyrs who want
to rabbit in your face and how,

1217
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,720
how noble they are.
And it's like that, that just, I

1218
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:06,920
find that toxic of like, well,
I'm doing it so you should.

1219
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,120
There are other people who kind
of accidentally might like the

1220
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,640
people you're talking about
really who are lovely, who, who

1221
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,840
will, who will stand up and moan
and be like, oh, I really, I've

1222
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:14,840
got loads of work to this
weekend.

1223
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,720
You don't want to be doing this.
And then when you offer the

1224
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,000
solution, they're like, Nah,
they don't want to do it now

1225
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,720
we've got to do it.
You know, we've decided, we've

1226
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:21,840
all gone on, we've all gone on
strike.

1227
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,200
Oh, brilliant.
The government have actually now

1228
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,080
like fast forwarded A workload
reduction task force and they've

1229
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:27,840
actually come up with some new
policy about admin

1230
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,680
administrative tasks you don't
have to do in school anymore.

1231
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,480
They've actually gone ahead and
like written it down in the

1232
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:32,680
clearest list you could ever
see.

1233
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,840
Teachers don't have to do this
anymore and it's a good place.

1234
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,080
Don't have to do it.
Should we do that?

1235
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,400
Nah, I don't want to.
No, I don't want to drop.

1236
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,360
That's nice for the kids.
You just went on strike, though.

1237
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,880
You went on strike to get this.
You lost hundreds of pounds and

1238
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,800
like put your job on the line.
Like people now perceive you

1239
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,680
differently because you went on
strike to get this and now you

1240
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,200
don't want to do the result.
Like what do you mean?

1241
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:53,160
So I agree, it's, it's a really,
really, really tricky thing to

1242
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,200
navigate.
And it is a bit soul destroying

1243
00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:58,200
when when working the job and
desperately trying to fight for

1244
00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:59,560
everybody, they don't want to
fight for themselves.

1245
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,440
Absolutely.
That is just, it's just

1246
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,240
frustrating and it just, it just
gets to the point where you're

1247
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:07,520
like, okay, I actually have no
personal problem with you guys.

1248
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,160
I think you're really nice
people, but clearly we don't

1249
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,040
care enough about changing this.
So okay, see you later.

1250
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,480
What's yours?
My 1 is very much linked to sort

1251
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,600
of the workload kind of aspect
of what you were saying.

1252
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,400
For me, what reminds me that
making the right decision is I

1253
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,040
can basically think back to any
term of any year I've ever

1254
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,160
taught and think back to a time
where I got really frustrated

1255
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:27,920
because we were reinventing the
wheel.

1256
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,640
We were doing.
There's something, some element

1257
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,280
of my school life, my working
life, where I was just wasting

1258
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,400
so much time because I'm
reinventing something that's

1259
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,360
already been invented 65 times.
We're changing the scheme for

1260
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,680
this thing for the 15th time and
it's like, I just can't do this

1261
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,000
anymore.
And I look back and I thought,

1262
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,640
I'm apologise to the teachers
when I was an NQTA newly

1263
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,920
qualified teacher.
And I was sat there rolling my

1264
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,320
eyes at those older experienced
teachers who've been in the game

1265
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,360
for 1020 years, who are rolling
their eyes at new initiatives

1266
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,400
and schemes that I thought were
amazing because I didn't know

1267
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,360
anything any different.
They were rolling their eyes

1268
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:00,520
because they did it 10 years
ago.

1269
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,920
They did.
They had that scheme in 1995.

1270
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,520
And they and they're like, Oh my
God.

1271
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,800
Like we've literally been here
and done this and I've just now

1272
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,920
got to do it all again and
reinvent the whole lot again.

1273
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,520
And then do you know what
happened in five years?

1274
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,640
We'll scrap this because the
truth is right.

1275
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,800
The curriculum is too broad,
there is too much stuff to do

1276
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,040
and we literally cannot do it
all.

1277
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:23,840
This is the thing.
This is what I was going to get

1278
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,360
to the crux of it.
I'm going to put it back to you

1279
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,640
now because I I'm, I've been
thinking about reinventing the

1280
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,880
wheel for years, ever since I
got to like almost the second

1281
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,080
cycle in my career.
Do you know when you're in your

1282
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,760
first part of your career and
you think everything's new?

1283
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,360
So this is just what we do.
It's not reinventing.

1284
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,080
It's your first time.
Yeah, for me, it's the first

1285
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,720
time ever.
So to someone else, like you

1286
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:41,840
said, clearly it's a new fad.
It's ridiculous.

1287
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,200
When it came round to the first
lot of changing stuff, I

1288
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,680
remember thinking OK,
interesting, it seems to have

1289
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,840
worked what I've done, but
obviously OK, we're going to,

1290
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,080
we're going to reinvent and
that's fine.

1291
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,520
Then the third reinvent, then
the 4th reinvent.

1292
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,880
And what you very quickly
realise is things change every

1293
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,000
single year and there's a reason
for that.

1294
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,520
The curriculum, we all agree.
And this is kind of linking back

1295
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,040
to my point.
I think our points overlap a

1296
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:04,800
lot.
Every single teacher you've ever

1297
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,880
speak to will agree that the
curriculum is too overloaded,

1298
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,800
it's too heavy, like there's too
much to fit in to the time we're

1299
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,600
given to do it.
So when it comes to us focusing

1300
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,240
on something as a school, let's
say it's reading, we're going to

1301
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:18,640
reinvent reading.
We've got this amazing new

1302
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,600
concept that we're going to do,
which we did 20 years ago and we

1303
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,480
then we stopped for a bit, but
it's back now because we need to

1304
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,600
focus on reading.
We're going to have on every

1305
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,600
single time we have a reading
lesson, there's going to be a

1306
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,440
slide up that says to the
children, they're doing

1307
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,800
retrieval and it's going to be a
certain colour because how else

1308
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:33,520
would they know it's retrieval
if we don't tell them that we're

1309
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,720
doing retrieval today.
All of this just absolute, OK,

1310
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:38,640
fine, ticker box, find,
whatever, I'll put it in the

1311
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:39,960
corner.
It's an extra 10 seconds of

1312
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:40,880
work.
Whatever.

1313
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,960
That's when it's new again and
it's new again and it's new

1314
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:45,440
again.
And here's the thing.

1315
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,800
We can sit and argue about how
much of an impact that will

1316
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,280
have.
OK, cool.

1317
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:50,560
Maybe I'm right.
Maybe I'm wrong.

1318
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:52,000
OK, yeah, just get on with your
job, Dylan.

1319
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:52,840
OK, fine.
Whatever.

1320
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,280
I'll just do it.
What's annoying is then when we

1321
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,560
put all this time into fixing
something, by definition

1322
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,520
something gets dropped off.
Let's say handwriting.

1323
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:01,960
Yeah.
We don't have time anymore

1324
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,680
because we're focusing on
reading.

1325
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,960
Two years down the line, we all
notice handwriting's got worse,

1326
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,400
readings got better, and we're
focusing on it.

1327
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:09,640
We've got more time in it.
That's cool.

1328
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,000
And maybe it did work.
Handwriting got worse though, so

1329
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:13,440
you know.
Happens in two years, don't you?

1330
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,400
We scrap the reading thing.
We do a hand.

1331
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:16,680
We've got handwriting focus now,
guys.

1332
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,720
We haven't got time to do you
know what, you know, three years

1333
00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:21,000
ago we built in an extra 20
minutes, the end of every day to

1334
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,120
do some extra guided reading and
some independent reading.

1335
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,920
We're going to have to cut maybe
half of that now and do and

1336
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,080
replace it with handwriting
practise.

1337
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,120
What happens three years later,
Reading results go down,

1338
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,920
handwriting gets better and the
cycle continues.

1339
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:32,560
And that's a really simplistic
version.

1340
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,240
Do that.
But now we've like 12 other

1341
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:35,680
subjects.
At the same time, vocabulary in

1342
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,440
the afternoon, we've got a real
big push on, you know, teaching

1343
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,920
children pre vocabulary units of
work so that when it comes to

1344
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:43,840
doing history, they already know
what a sarcophagus is.

1345
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:45,160
That sounds great.
Oh, no.

1346
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,880
But now they're really bad at,
like, understanding chronology.

1347
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:48,920
Yeah.
So actually, because we spent

1348
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:50,920
too much time on vocabulary.
So now we really need to go back

1349
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,440
and we need to like explicitly
teach them lots of links between

1350
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,480
all the different topics and we
just build 10 minutes in every

1351
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,480
day to show them this links to
this last oh, where's.

1352
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,280
The 10 minutes coming in, oh,
the 10 minutes timetable

1353
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:01,720
practise we get in the morning,
that's got to go.

1354
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:02,840
Gone down.
Yeah, that's got to go.

1355
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:04,600
Times tables gone down.
What we're going to do?

1356
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:05,600
I need to bring times table
back.

1357
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,600
Yeah, I guess we can't do that
reading anymore.

1358
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,120
It's just a big circle.
But don't.

1359
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,000
Worry we didn't because we're
going to work on times tables

1360
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:12,120
now.
We're going to build in more

1361
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:13,800
times tables time into our maths
lessons.

1362
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:14,720
Oh, we get to the end of the
year.

1363
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:16,240
Their reasoning and problems are
awful.

1364
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,040
We've been doing too much on the
foundations.

1365
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,400
Right.
Scrap the times table.

1366
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:21,920
It just goes on and on.
And when the cycle gets back

1367
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,160
round to the first one, Yeah,
that that's when I think

1368
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,080
teachers start to completely
lose faith in the system.

1369
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,080
That's when you get this.
It gets labelled a lot, I think,

1370
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,280
as complacency, like older
teachers, they just don't want

1371
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:31,000
to do it anymore.
Yeah.

1372
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,720
They don't want to do it because
they know ultimately it's a

1373
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:35,600
waste of time.
And it was just just pick one.

1374
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,520
Just pick one.
I'm sure there are some schemes

1375
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:38,960
that are objectively better than
others, right.

1376
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,920
But what we can't, what we can't
do is be like, yeah, we'll be

1377
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,800
able to teach everything to
maximum efficiency 100% for all

1378
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:46,760
areas of the curriculum.
The curriculum's too big with

1379
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,040
not enough hours in the day to
do it.

1380
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,040
That is not me saying increase
the hours in the day.

1381
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:51,440
That's not going to be a good
thing to do.

1382
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,800
But there is too much curriculum
to each is impossible to keep it

1383
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,160
keep up with.
So I think in general, when we

1384
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:00,280
have these ups and downs and we
think back, I think we always

1385
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:04,040
tend to convince ourselves
again, OK, right, it's it's time

1386
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:05,920
to quit because we're at that
level now where we're like, we

1387
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,040
know, we know all the positives
like the back of our hand.

1388
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:09,400
It's the reason we've done it
for 10 years.

1389
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,800
If those positives didn't exist,
we would have stopped after two.

1390
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:13,880
OK, So we know those positives
exist.

1391
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,400
Talked about the negative bits,
the things in general that make

1392
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,520
us think that we know.
That's why we quit and I think

1393
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:20,520
why we're making the right
decision.

1394
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,560
But my question to you now is
really specific because there

1395
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:27,360
would have been a point in your
career where you went from

1396
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,800
complaining adequately about
something like some it's my job.

1397
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,160
It's normal to complain in a job
how we can improve things.

1398
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,280
So there's always going to be
people out there in jobs who

1399
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:36,360
say, well, that's silly, isn't
it?

1400
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:37,520
They're not necessarily going to
quit.

1401
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,720
Was there a moment where you
actually thought to yourselves,

1402
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,080
I am going to quit?
Yeah, like like a moment where

1403
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,400
the illusion of this job was
broken, where I started

1404
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,120
thinking, oh, maybe I don't want
to do this forever.

1405
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:51,560
Like you said, it wasn't just
normal gripes.

1406
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,080
It was like a fundamental, I
don't agree with this.

1407
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:56,000
I have an exact moment I can
tell you about right now.

1408
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,640
And it was the first time I was
ever told to put a post it note

1409
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,960
in a piece of work.
And let's be really honest and

1410
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,280
specific about why this happens.
And everyone when teaching will

1411
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,800
know this, right?
The only reason I put a post it

1412
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,320
note in a piece of, on a piece
of writing specifically here

1413
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:13,160
we're thinking about is because
I don't want one to think that

1414
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:14,560
I've given that feedback to the
child.

1415
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,400
I want to pretend I want it to
look like a child has thought of

1416
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,520
this correction or this editing
to writing themselves.

1417
00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:24,120
And they've edited it in their
green pen or their purple pen or

1418
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:25,800
whatever your school does
themselves.

1419
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,480
Because at that point, right?
It can still be assessed, right.

1420
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,960
If in our assessment framework,
if a teacher, if there is

1421
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,560
teacher marking on the page, it,
the rule is OK, you can't use

1422
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,360
that for assessment.
Then because you have guided

1423
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,080
them, you've told them to make
that change.

1424
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,040
So obviously it's not
independent writing.

1425
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,280
So the first time I was ever
told, and I'm, I'm saying this

1426
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,560
honestly because I know
basically every teacher ever has

1427
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,600
been in this situation, right?
That to, to mark a piece of work

1428
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,680
in a way that disguised it as
the children doing it and not be

1429
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,080
doing it completely broke my
illusion of, of what the point

1430
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:58,360
of teaching is.
What are we?

1431
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,920
It made me think, oh, you don't
have the best interests of the

1432
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:04,960
kids at heart at all.
It's your own interest.

1433
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:06,800
It's the school's data that
matters.

1434
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,800
It's actually matters more than
the child's progress.

1435
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,520
I get it now.
And that really broke it for me

1436
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:16,760
and and sowed the seed of doubt
as to whether I can be in this

1437
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,680
in this system forever.
Do you think there's a place for

1438
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:24,400
that at all, ever?
Or do you think fundamentally,

1439
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,760
if we're pretending that we
haven't given children feedback

1440
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,760
to jump through a hoop, do you
think that is fundamentally

1441
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:32,880
wrong?
Fundamentally wrong.

1442
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,360
There is absolutely no place for
it.

1443
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,080
There are no there are no use
cases of someone putting a post

1444
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,200
it note on a child's piece of
writing to tell them how to

1445
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,520
correct something that isn't
fundamentally cheating.

1446
00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:43,680
Yeah, completely agree.
And we talked about it a lot.

1447
00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:47,280
It it is cheating.
And I think a lot of schools

1448
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,640
justify it because they'll say,
and I'm interested to your feed

1449
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,200
your, your pushback on this.
They'll say, yeah, OK, well,

1450
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,200
it's no different to just verbal
feedback, right?

1451
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,000
Like if I was.
Walking around the room and just

1452
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,080
said to them, oh, check this.
But isn't am I right in thinking

1453
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,040
is that acceptable or is that
also that's also like right with

1454
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:05,800
an independent piece of writing.
Exactly.

1455
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,720
I don't know how people can't
how people are misinterpreting

1456
00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:09,680
the word independent.
Yeah.

1457
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:11,880
It's like just think about the
word for a second before you do

1458
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:13,400
anything.
If it's verbal feedback written

1459
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,400
on a post it note or written in
that book, it's it's not

1460
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,960
independent if you have told
them what to do, you know what I

1461
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:20,720
mean?
Yeah, completely.

1462
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:23,000
And that's different to you can
have, you can give them a, a

1463
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,480
piece of paper and tell them to
plan.

1464
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:26,120
That's not telling them what to
do.

1465
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,440
But why by telling what to do, I
mean telling them what to write

1466
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,440
as in like specifically their
creative ideas, their sentence

1467
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,040
structure.
That's what we're not supposed

1468
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:33,720
to do.
You know, the three weeks of

1469
00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:36,480
lessons beforehand, That's OK
because you have to teach the

1470
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,680
children how to do it.
But when it comes to that one

1471
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,520
independent piece of writing,
it's independent.

1472
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,800
You have to leave them alone and
they have to go from the start

1473
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,280
of that process, at the end of
that process by themselves.

1474
00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:51,040
Can you imagine being sat in a
maths SAT paper next to a child

1475
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,280
and then on post it notes,
scribbling down how to work

1476
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,480
things out and putting it down.
Then the child looking at it

1477
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,200
going OK, I'll do that and then
taking the post notes out.

1478
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:58,280
It was themselves, it was
themselves.

1479
00:56:58,280 --> 00:56:59,920
We're going to mark it.
Well it's no different to verbal

1480
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:01,520
feedback.
Yeah, that would be cheating and

1481
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,440
a test as well.
It sounds insane, doesn't it,

1482
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:04,960
that, but that is literally
what's happening.

1483
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,800
Just because it's not in a test
environment and we do it through

1484
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:08,440
moderation, people think and get
away with it.

1485
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:09,360
And you know what some schools
do?

1486
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:10,440
They're like, oh, we'll get
around it.

1487
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,280
We won't use post it notes.
We'll do tracing paper.

1488
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:13,920
No, sorry.
No, no, it's not the post it

1489
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:15,760
note that's the problem is the
concept.

1490
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:17,640
We don't do post it notes or
tracing paper.

1491
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,920
We just have separate books.
I've heard of schools publishing

1492
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:23,160
3 books before.
I actually spoke to someone

1493
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:24,760
recently for writing.
Yeah, for writing.

1494
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,840
They had a draught book that was
like a scrapbook.

1495
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,920
They had that actual English
book, which is where they did

1496
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:32,920
their first draught.
And I know this sounds mental.

1497
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,160
And then they had their
publishing book, which is where

1498
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,280
they wrote up their final copy,
cheated between the three books.

1499
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:39,880
Yeah.
It basically just allowed the

1500
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,360
teacher complete freedom to
somewhere in that process, they

1501
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,760
could just give them the exact
feedback they need and just

1502
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:46,680
manufacture that independent.
No, it's insane.

1503
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:50,360
By the way, all of this happens
in loads of scores, and still

1504
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,600
only 13% of children in year 6
are greater depth.

1505
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,120
Yeah, I'm going to rant about
this if you don't stop me, but

1506
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,040
let's just think about this for
a second then.

1507
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,920
So SAS data this year, right,
we're looking at the kind of

1508
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,760
greater depth bar in reading and
maths.

1509
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,440
It's around 30%.
I think reading was 33% and

1510
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,280
maths was 26% if I remember
right.

1511
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,640
That's really sad, right?
That's getting greater depth in

1512
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:12,960
writing.
It's 13%.

1513
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,400
Doesn't that just scream at you
that even with all this, even

1514
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,920
with, even though the fact that
we all know this happens in so

1515
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,680
many schools or this cheating
through writing, we're still

1516
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,040
only getting 13% of greater
depth writers.

1517
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,720
That to me screams the bar is
clearly way too high.

1518
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,840
The bar is astronomically too
high.

1519
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,880
How can it be so much lower than
the other subjects consistently

1520
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,200
every year?
By the way, the last like 5

1521
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,400
years, yeah, it's been 13%.
Even before COVID, the gap

1522
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:38,960
wasn't as big, but there was a
gap there.

1523
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,360
And if you go back to 2016,
1715% were greater death writers

1524
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,920
and this year 13% are greater
death writers.

1525
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,160
So we can look at the move and
how it's changed stuff, COVID,

1526
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,040
etcetera.
But fundamentally that does

1527
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:52,920
absolutely show the bar's too
high.

1528
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,240
And I guess what you're saying
is your moment was, oh, I need

1529
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,320
to play this game.
Yeah, I don't want to play the

1530
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,080
game.
It was more like I was happy

1531
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,480
playing the game before the game
of teaching, whatever that is.

1532
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:05,640
And yeah, I had my gripes within
it.

1533
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,680
But when, when I'm outside, when
my fundamental morals and values

1534
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,320
of what I think teaching is are
no longer even in the boundaries

1535
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,640
of the game anymore, I'm like,
oh, this, this broke it broke it

1536
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:16,760
for me.
It completely broke the

1537
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:18,680
illusion.
So I offered a long time there.

1538
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,360
Dylan, I want to hear about your
moment.

1539
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,440
Did you have a moment similar or
I've?

1540
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,680
Been thinking all the way
through because I I often, I

1541
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:26,920
often go for generic generic
vibes, don't I?

1542
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:28,240
About why it's good, why it's
bad.

1543
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,480
But I'm trying to pick a
specific moment.

1544
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,240
It was when I kind of became
sentient as to what I was being

1545
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:35,760
asked to do in progress
meetings.

1546
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:40,000
So let me explain.
What wound me up and winds me up

1547
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:45,800
massively is when children are
being given to me as a list from

1548
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,440
the top down because they form
part of a predetermined group

1549
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,520
and I need to spend all my time
focusing on them in my lessons.

1550
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,560
Right.
OK, so as a teacher, my moral

1551
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,760
compass is very simple.
If I teach a lesson to a group

1552
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,760
of children, whether it's 15 of
them or 30 of them, if someone

1553
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,320
doesn't understand something, I
will go and help them.

1554
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,960
If someone still doesn't
understand something, we'll do

1555
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,280
an intervention group or I'll
focus on the next lesson.

1556
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,280
My whole outlook is if a child
needs help, I'll give it to

1557
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:15,880
them.
If they understand something,

1558
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,280
I'll stretch them.
It's as simple on the spot.

1559
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:19,520
It's adaptive, right?
It changes.

1560
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:20,680
It could be different children
every day.

1561
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:21,800
And I think that's good
practise.

1562
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:23,960
It should be different children
every day, right?

1563
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,360
But what happens is you sit in a
pupil progress meeting and then

1564
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,240
we look at these arbitrary lines
we've made-up.

1565
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,360
So you're in a, you're in a
meeting with, with, with senior

1566
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,000
leadership.
And I know why they're focused

1567
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:35,760
on it because it's important
that school get data at the

1568
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,400
right points and stuff.
I think that's broken.

1569
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,600
But then I'm told, OK, look,
we've got this group of six

1570
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,920
children and they're hovering on
their assessments halfway

1571
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,480
through the year, two or three
marks away from the expected

1572
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,520
standard in year 4.
So if we just put all of our

1573
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,520
focus and our limited resources
on these children, we might move

1574
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,960
them into the next band.
And that will look great for

1575
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:59,920
data.
Huge net gain for data, huge net

1576
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:03,680
gain for data looks amazing.
But what that means is that

1577
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,600
every lesson I'm looking at a
predetermined group of children

1578
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,320
that I need to give all my
resources and help to just to

1579
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:12,600
get them past an arbitrary line.
When actually, if someone is

1580
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,800
secure, expected right in the
middle of that and no danger of

1581
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,920
dropping at all, they're still
just as important to me.

1582
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,240
And more importantly, I think
the children who are below who

1583
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,640
have no chance of moving up at
all, they're just as important

1584
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:29,440
to me as well.
So if I'm going to be in a

1585
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,400
classroom and being told, well,
there's an arbitrary line we've

1586
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,400
drawn as to what's expected for
year year 4 or Year 5 or year 6

1587
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,320
or whatever it might be.
So we need to focus on these

1588
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,320
children.
I tell you what, their five

1589
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:45,240
percentage point move is just as
important to me, yeah, as A5

1590
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:47,600
percentage point move of someone
nowhere near a boundary that

1591
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,120
we've made-up.
So as a teacher, fundamentally I

1592
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,360
hated that.
And that really planted the seed

1593
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,720
of doubt because, again, very
good, lovely, nice people who

1594
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:58,880
are trying to do the right
thing, who have just a different

1595
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,920
opinion and, and different
pressures maybe than me are

1596
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:04,600
saying to do this.
I don't fundamentally dislike

1597
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,120
these people at all.
And I understand why they're

1598
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,360
doing it.
And that's why for me this was a

1599
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,640
watershed moment where I said,
ah, I fundamentally think

1600
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,000
different and don't agree with
this, so I need to not do this

1601
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,480
job anymore.
So my analogy then of the kind

1602
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:19,200
of game applies to you as well,
doesn't it really?

1603
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,120
I was thinking about it when you
were talking for you, the game

1604
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:26,440
within teaching is as a teacher,
I should prioritise giving help

1605
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,360
to children who need it the
most, right?

1606
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,280
And unfortunately, the actual
game that you're saying here

1607
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:35,480
that you became Privy to is as a
teacher, you should prioritise

1608
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,320
the children who can give us the
best net gain in data, right?

1609
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:40,720
And you were like, Oh no, that's
not why we should be teaching.

1610
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:42,280
And that kind of the illusion
for you as?

1611
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,520
Well, yeah, that percentage
point move past an arbitrary

1612
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,800
line in the middle, to me isn't
that isn't as important as a

1613
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:49,880
potential point move for anyone,
just in making them better.

1614
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,920
If you have three children,
right, Child A, child B and

1615
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:57,280
child C, and they all make 15
percentage point move in their

1616
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,480
progress, I'm equally happy and
chuffed for all of them.

1617
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,160
If only one of them goes past
the boundary, only one of them

1618
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:04,680
shows up on your data.
Yeah, yeah.

1619
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,000
And that was the most.
Important one, you should have.

1620
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,400
You should have done that.
Well done.

1621
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,680
Like, no, no, no, no, no, no,
the others made the same amount

1622
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,360
of progress and I'm just as
proud and happy for them as

1623
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:15,640
well.
And when our limited resources

1624
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,400
are disproportionately
channelled towards just one of

1625
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:20,880
those children.
And, and you could even argue

1626
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,320
that actually, if we were going
to be disproportionate, maybe

1627
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,800
the child at the lower end
probably needed that support

1628
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,560
more than anyone because they're
way below the standard.

1629
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:29,920
We really need to be helping
them get up to it, but it just

1630
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:31,160
doesn't happen it.
Just doesn't happen.

1631
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:34,240
And I think that fundamentally I
just thought we are, we are,

1632
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,480
here's how we can set it up.
I think we both realise that

1633
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:38,880
we're playing a game.
Yeah.

1634
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,960
And and the game doesn't follow
the rules we want to follow.

1635
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:46,520
Maybe that's just us entering
adulthood and being aware of

1636
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:48,000
things around us.
Everything's a game.

1637
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,080
Maybe that's true.
But yeah, it fundamentally

1638
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,160
didn't match up.
And I think we've spoken a lot

1639
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:55,040
about how over the last couple
of years, I think it's moved

1640
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:58,920
from us having a genuine gripes
about the job, things that we

1641
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,920
think could be changed and
improved to now maybe even more

1642
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,520
stuff where we're just like, oh,
OK, this is fundamental to this

1643
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:06,840
job and I disagree or I don't
want to do it.

1644
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:08,640
So actually I think we've made
the right call.

1645
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:10,840
Yeah.
So at the start of this chat, we

1646
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:12,160
said are we, are we making a
mistake?

1647
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:13,640
I think the answer's pretty
clear.

1648
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,080
We're not making a mistake.
I don't think so, because you

1649
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:17,560
know what someone might say to
you?

1650
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,760
Oh, you've got your tutoring and
your podcast.

1651
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:21,120
Of course it's easy for you to
quit.

1652
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:25,320
Well, yeah, because I thought
for many years now I'm going to

1653
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,120
put this extra work in, build
the podcast up, build our

1654
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,000
tutoring up to have the choice
to quit.

1655
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,240
Yeah.
And worse comes to worse, OK, it

1656
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,240
doesn't work out.
And we we try it for a year or

1657
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,360
two, we'll go back into teaching
if we like.

1658
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:37,320
Good intentions are always
there.

1659
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,000
Like I don't want to quit.
No, I actually don't want to.

1660
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:41,840
Like we started this podcast to
try and make a change.

1661
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,640
I I tried, I speak up in
staffing as I speak up to all

1662
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:45,920
the people I can to try and make
a change.

1663
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,160
But like you said, there's only
so many years you can, you can

1664
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,040
watch people be like, yeah, that
would be a good change, wouldn't

1665
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:51,040
it?
And then not do it anything.

1666
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,080
I don't think I can.
I don't think I can make this

1667
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:54,640
difference I need to make.
And I don't want to play this

1668
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:56,600
game anymore.
This is just, I'm going to miss

1669
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:57,680
it.
I'm going to miss the bits I

1670
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,720
love about it, but the bits I
love about it aren't in the

1671
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:01,720
boundaries of the game anymore.
So there's no I can't do it.

1672
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:04,760
Last thing then, and we've
spoken about this a lot, lots of

1673
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,640
Ects, this thing might be
thinking, oh gosh, these guys

1674
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,120
are quit and they think they're
doing the right thing.

1675
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:11,840
Would you change anything?
Do you regret anything?

1676
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:14,240
What do you mean?
In your career, would you do you

1677
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,840
regret going into teaching?
Would you what you're talking

1678
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:18,840
directly now to an ECT?
OK.

1679
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,120
I would say to them it's the
best job.

1680
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:24,560
Yeah, it's not.
The best job at all I I regret

1681
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:26,840
nothing Yeah, genuinely, I have
no regrets.

1682
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,960
I've absolutely love this
career, Yeah, and I've just said

1683
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:30,560
I wish I could do it for.
Longer, How can we?

1684
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:32,480
But how can we sit here and say
it's the best job, but then say

1685
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:33,760
all that?
But but do you know what?

1686
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,160
I stand by it because the
moments you get in that job are

1687
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:38,920
unbelievable, an unbelievable
experience.

1688
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:40,560
You might not be doing it for
the whole of your life.

1689
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:41,960
No.
OK.

1690
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:44,720
But I would definitely,
definitely, if you're the right

1691
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:47,000
personality, phrase up into it.
Yeah.

1692
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:48,440
Thanks.
This thing, guys.

1693
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,400
We'll catch you again next time
for another episode all the way

1694
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,800
through the summer weekly, baby.
Let's go.

1695
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:54,000
See you there.
See ya.