Ep 119: The Birth Rate Crisis: Teacher Redundancies, School Closures & Fewer Teaching Jobs!

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach

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Sleep Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

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And my name is Hayden.
We are in the new studio now.

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Look, lots of people last week
said love the new setup guys.

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Anything you've been teasing for
a while?

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Hmm, little bit of something to
say about that.

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Yeah, I'm glad we've, I'm glad
we had the professional studio

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last week.
So that this now by definition

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comparison just doesn't look as
good.

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So we, you know, we spent
absolutely ages in our, in the,

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the very little spare time we
have trying to get this all set

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up and ready to go.
And yeah, hope you like it guys.

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Doesn't look as good as last
week, so whatever.

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If we'd just not gone to this
lovely professional studio last

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week, by the way, ran by James.
Lovely guy.

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Been talking to him a lot,
haven't you, about our setup?

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Yeah, he's been brilliant.
Really nice guy and amazing

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setup.
If we hadn't done that, though,

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and just come from your, I
think, like box room, dingy

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cave, we call, sorry, my my
studio ogre pit or something.

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I don't know.
Anyway, if we just come from

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that to here, this lovely
penthouse suite in someone

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else's house.
I don't know who's house it

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might be a lot of people
probably would have been like,

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wow, what a jump.
But now it's just gonna be like,

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I'm see the old professional
podcast one last week.

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Maybe you should stick to that,
guys.

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But I'll tell you what, no,
we're here in Dylan's house, in

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Dylan's third.
Room, All the cameras around

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here picking us up.
Yeah, I'm going to look at you

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down, down in the camera who's
listening to this podcast and a

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camera, obviously, if you're
watching, you can see me

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pointing right now.
Anyway, lots of room here today.

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We're going to be talking about
a crisis that I do think as a

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whole population, we're walking
into sleepwalking rather.

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And we do always end up with
crisis talks, don't we?

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Just go straight into the big
issue.

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And it's that of the burst,
right?

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The amount of children being
born.

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And it's something we kind of
need as teachers, isn't it?

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Children to teach.
Well, you could say that.

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I don't know.
Is is it off a debate?

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I don't know.
I think we probably do need them

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and it's the impacts it's going
to have on that birth rate

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declining.
Yeah.

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If there are fewer children,
that means that schools aren't

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full.
And if schools aren't full, that

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means their funding is cut
because we're on a per pupil

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model right now.
So schools are going to be

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squeezed even tighter.
We're going to see closures,

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we're going to see downsizing
for sure.

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And just in general, I think a
big impact we're going to have

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is on jobs and and the amount of
teachers there are actually able

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to fill roles because that's
going to decrease.

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There's going to be fewer
children.

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And I'm sure Labour are licking
their lips with all this, right?

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Oh, fewer vacancies?
Eh, Let's just put that as the

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headline.
Fewer teacher vacancies than

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ever before.
Yeah, because the jobs don't

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exist.
Dylan, we're gonna talk about

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this later on, OK?
We can come back to this.

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OK, stay tuned, but first, let's
dive into our week.

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As always, Hayden, how's your
week been?

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My week has been fantastic.
We've had a A an incredible

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ending to this week.
As you all know Dylan, because

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we have been in to our school on
our day off.

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I know crazy because we're part
time, as many of you know, for

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our sports day.
And Dylan, would you like to

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share what we've been doing for
our Sports Day event?

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Well, I for a long time had told
the children that I'll be coming

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in on sports day, even though
it's my day off, and they're

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very excited.
Oh, my teacher's going to come

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in because they're lucky enough
to have two teachers through the

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week because we share.
And then I found out that the

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reason we're coming in, which is
for a fun run, can't wait, a

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costume fun run we'll get into
in a second.

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But I found out that that was
happening about 3 hours after

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sports day.
So all my children in the

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morning were doing sports day,
no doubt thinking, Well, Mr he

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told me he was, he promised me
he was going to come in.

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And I was like, yeah, I'm for
the surprise thing.

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You don't know about later on.
So that was a little bit of an

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awkward situation.
But yeah, the main thing is this

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is one of the big things I love
about the summer term is that

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these kind of wacky events
happen.

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This is what makes a primary
school for me.

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And this is what, when I think
back to when I was in primary

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school, what are the things that
stay with me as core memories?

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Yeah, it's these silly things
like we did an off school course

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in massive fancy dress.
Do you feel like you're missing

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out then by being part time on
some of these?

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Because they quite often happen
on like Fridays, you know what I

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mean?
Like we quite often do that.

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It's to me, it's the paradox of
part time.

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We, we touched upon this very
briefly last week.

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We talked about part time in
general and how a lot of the job

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doesn't lend itself to being
part time.

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So whether you're 3 days in
school or four or five, a big

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chunk of the job just requires
you to have the very deep

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understanding of all your
children.

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The provisions still need to be
met.

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The planning in whatever
situation you might be in your

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school still needs to be done.
Yeah.

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But what I would say a big
negative forgoing part time for

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me personally is you do tend to
miss out on bits.

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And there is pros.
There are pros and cons to being

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at the front of the week,
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or

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the back end of the week.
And I understand that because,

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you know, my job share is always
the first person to message me

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saying, oh, another bank holiday
coming up.

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Yeah, because that's got them on
Monday.

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But I do I do find that all of
those kind fun events that kind

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of expanding outside of the
classroom and those staple what

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makes a primary school
experience really good for the

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children.
Yeah, does tend to happen

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towards the end of the week.
And there's little things like

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this.
This doesn't bother me

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genuinely.
Like, you know, own clothes day,

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non uniform days and stuff,
always on a Friday.

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Yeah, I can.
I can deal with that.

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Wear my own clothes anyway when
I'm not in school.

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That's not a problem.
But it is the big things like

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the sports day at the end of the
day, we missed out on sports day

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and I love sports day.
I love being with the children

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and seeing them excel in
something else and seeing a

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child who maybe struggles when
I'm with them every day for

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maths and English shine and
enjoy themselves doing sports.

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So I do feel like I miss that.
Is it enough for me to think on

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the balance part time's not
worth it?

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No, it's just, it's just one of
those things where that's a

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drawback of going.
Yeah, there's, there's literally

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nothing in life, is there, where
there's not going to be pros and

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cons, right?
And that's just a con.

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Although we did have a cake sale
recently and that was on a

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Wednesday.
So I'm just saying, you know, we

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didn't miss out on everything.
Plenty of cakes to eat.

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I had lots of children on that
cake.

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This is where this is where you
just know the pure innocence.

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And the reason why I love
working with these kids so much

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is because there was a child who
I brought in a pound.

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It was like 50 PS slice of cake,
child brought in a pound so they

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could buy a couple.
And well, I'm so excited.

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I'm going to give one to my
little brother.

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I'm going to keep it.
I'm going to give my little

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brother.
And I had another child who

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brought in like 5 LB, which is
enough for 10 bits of yeah,

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yeah.
Didn't get that much.

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But he was walking around then
all day with his cap because he

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brought a cap into school,
right?

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He'd taken it off and filled it
with three different cakes,

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right?
And it was for his family to

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take time all day.
No, he didn't eat them.

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He was nesting them in his, in
his little cap, looking after

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them.
And then in the middle of

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teaching in the afternoon and
he's I just I just had his tray

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open looking.
They had making sure they little

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baby cakes.
That's so lovely.

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But he had them in his, in his
tray, just looking at them, just

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making sure they're okay, making
sure they're okay, close his

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tray again.
And there's little things like

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that where I'm just like, crack
on.

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Yeah, I think there's some
people like, no, no, no, you

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can't.
Every single second of the

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afternoon.
You must be paying attention.

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May.
He's just looking at his jam

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tart, making sure it's like not
falling over.

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He's got to look after and
nurture that jam tart so it

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produces more jam tarts.
But one of them came up to me

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with a chocolate brownie because
she'd asked me that morning

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what's your favourite cake?
I went chocolate chocolate cake

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and she came up with a chocolate
brownie.

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Got this for you and that and I
found out later on that was the

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only cake she bought.
I can imagine you not like

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pretending that you didn't
immediately know why she was

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asking.
Oh, I don't know what?

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Which one?
Do you want to know why?

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My favourite cake is looking at
the selection outside that's

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already been set up.
I'll have that one.

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Cheers love.
Right, Go on then, off you go.

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Why could you supposed to be
asking?

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It's like the same time towards
the end of the year when someone

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goes what's your favourite
chocolate?

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I don't know actually.
Gillian Shells.

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Gillian Shells.
What a random question.

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If I was to get chocolate, I'd
probably say to that person,

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don't get me chocolate, get me a
gift card for Waterstones.

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What I say, but my favourite
chocolate other than

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Waterstones.
Yeah, Gillian shells.

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What's that?
What?

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I don't know.
I think I really like the

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flavour of those bottle of gin
chocolates.

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Yeah, that's nice.
Yeah, I do like that.

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Do like that.
It's funny that isn't it.

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Sorry, whole class Ding, make
sure they're all listening.

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I was just telling.
I was just telling little Jimmy

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here.
But I do really like that bottle

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of gin flavour chocolates.
Just I'm just telling.

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I'm just telling him though, so
don't.

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Worry about it.
Anyone else wants the one?

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But so I absolutely know what
she's doing.

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But again, I said it not
thinking and she offered it to

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me.
And it's just those little

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little tiny things like that.
I'm just like, oh mate, I just,

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I just love it.
But in general, I'd say going

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part time, you do miss out on of
those.

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And I think a lot of people who
go part time, they end up with

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the worst end of the stick.
Because I've spoken to a lot of

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people and I want to make it
really clear right now I think

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we have a fantastic part time
role, which is truly part time,

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where I work with another
qualified teacher.

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I do three days a week, she does
two days a week.

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And what's great about the our
setup is that we are treated as

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one class.
Yeah.

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So if we're splitting planning
or have jobs to do, they're

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split between the classes.
And then me and my job share

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will go away and say, okay,
cool, right, let's split this up

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between us.
So let's say even when it comes

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to reports, so report writing,
we had to do the same amount as

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every class, but we sat there
ourselves and just divvied it

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up.
Yeah.

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And I find that way more useful.
And there's there's two other

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options that are worse, which is
1, where you're the only

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qualified teacher.
Yeah, Yeah.

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And then maybe using ATA or a
HLTA to fill the world.

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You've got to do all the
planning still.

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00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,520
Yeah.
You've got to do all the

227
00:08:58,520 --> 00:08:58,960
reports.
You.

228
00:08:58,960 --> 00:08:59,960
Wouldn't think that happens,
would you?

229
00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:01,040
Yeah, you wouldn't think that
happens.

230
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,240
Would I not think that happens
in this school system where

231
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,080
people are taking advantage of
every single time?

232
00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,000
You'd think it shouldn't happen,
right?

233
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:08,960
I literally, I don't know if you
saw this as well, but I saw it

234
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,760
online about two days ago,
someone saying, oh, I'm naughty

235
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,280
.6 Can anyone else tell me about
their experience?

236
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,680
Because they're obviously
thinking, I don't know if this

237
00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,240
is right or wrong.
You know, classic thing you see

238
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,000
online all the time.
Oh, I think my school might be

239
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,560
taking advantage of me.
Can anyone else help me?

240
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:22,080
It's like, Oh yeah, they are,
they absolutely are.

241
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,440
And it's doing it to me as well.
And it was someone saying that

242
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,520
their their job share exactly
what you just said there.

243
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,000
Their job share was a TA.
So they had to do 100% of

244
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,280
everything except for the
literal physical hours in front

245
00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,320
of the classroom that TA was
doing and getting paid.

246
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,240
Not .6 Yeah.
And they were like, is that

247
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,360
right?
It was no, no, absolutely.

248
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,400
Of course it's not, right?
Well, you absolutely not.

249
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,600
You should not be paying nought
points paid nought .6 when

250
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,240
you're doing 100% of the work
for like 2/3 of the job.

251
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,560
Exactly.
It doesn't make sense.

252
00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:50,280
Yeah, completely.
And I think that's where it's,

253
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,000
it can be kind of brushed aside,
this extra stuff that teachers

254
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:53,520
do.
Yeah.

255
00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:55,400
I was like, Oh yeah, that's just
part of the job, isn't it?

256
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:56,920
But you've got of course, you've
got to do planning a bit of

257
00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,360
market.
When you're sick and you're off,

258
00:09:58,360 --> 00:09:59,880
you've got to do all the work.
You've got to leave it there,

259
00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:01,360
aren't you?
I think the big thing that's

260
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,360
forgotten as well, and I really
don't want to gloss over this,

261
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,840
is the role of the TA, in that
the teaching assistant is

262
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,560
absolutely being completely
mugged off as well.

263
00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:09,920
Yeah, let's be real about it,
because at the end of the day,

264
00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,240
they're not being paid a wage as
a professional teacher.

265
00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,200
To no way.
And people, people always come

266
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,040
back to me and say, oh, well, if
they've chosen to be a HLTA,

267
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,480
they've taken the extra money.
Yeah.

268
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,480
Do you know why?
Because in that situation, a bit

269
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:22,520
of extra money is better than
not.

270
00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,480
And it doesn't mean that they're
not being taken advantage.

271
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,440
Of absolutely.
And also like if we're thinking

272
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,160
about the scale that they're on,
like in we live in Kent, so

273
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,400
we've got a Kent pay scale.
I'm sure other districts have or

274
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,160
counties have their own ones.
It's not much anyway.

275
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:36,920
Like, it's not like, oh, you're
a HLTA now.

276
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,280
So you did a bit of teaching.
You've added a good 10 grand to

277
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,160
your wage.
No, you've added about two grand

278
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,480
to your wage, if that.
Oh, but Hayden, they don't have

279
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,120
to do any planning or any work
outside of school.

280
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:47,120
Yeah.
OK.

281
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:48,440
Really.
Yeah.

282
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,280
Have you met ATA?
Do you understand how much work

283
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,080
they often do outside of school?
Again, I've got to big up our

284
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,600
school because I do think on the
whole, compared to other schools

285
00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,680
that I've heard about and other
TAS that I've got in touch with

286
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:03,200
us and they they almost speak as
if it's normal that TA plans

287
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,040
their interventions, that it's
normal that TA spends 1000 hours

288
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,400
afterwards doing like making
groups or, or assessing

289
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,240
children.
Yeah, that's not normal.

290
00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:12,600
If you're a teaching assistant
and you're doing all the extra

291
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,480
stuff, you are not paid for that
and a teacher is.

292
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,280
And it's not as putting teachers
on a pedestal to say, well,

293
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,640
teachers have to do all of this.
No, we should be doing more.

294
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,120
Teachers absolutely should be
doing more than a teaching

295
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,800
assistant.
Just look at the amount of money

296
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,320
and compensation we get for the
job and even down to the the

297
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,000
qualifications we've got on the
way.

298
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,760
Of course we should be doing
more than a teaching assistant.

299
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,080
It's not me degrading teaching
assistants or saying, Oh yeah,

300
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,480
well, you shouldn't be doing
that, should you?

301
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:39,560
Because you, because you're a
teacher.

302
00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:41,280
And I said no, What I'm saying
The thing is you shouldn't be

303
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:42,480
doing it because you're not
compensated.

304
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,600
For it, you're not remotely
compensated for it you're barely

305
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,400
compensated to do the stuff that
you should be doing that's the

306
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:48,600
thing, isn't it completely.
Yeah.

307
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,880
Comparing teachers, comparing
ATA to other jobs is, is more

308
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,720
suitable saying OK, working as
ATA is more like working a

309
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,400
retail job or something like
that, where it's just like,

310
00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,440
actually do you know what you're
paid for a certain number of

311
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,120
hours?
That's it, an hourly rate and

312
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:02,120
and that's all you should be
doing.

313
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,040
Like if I was working at M&S,
there's no way I should.

314
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,480
I think I should be doing like
an hour or two extra just to

315
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:09,720
help out around the shop every
day.

316
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,320
Oh no, because if you didn't
help around the M&S shop, the

317
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,320
M&S shop wouldn't function.
That sounds like an M&S shop

318
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,240
problem to me, not a me problem.
Given up my time for free.

319
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:20,360
Exactly.
Because there are children

320
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,240
involved and because it's the
state sector and because you

321
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,120
only do it because you're a
loving motherly type figure,

322
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,920
which is what TA is seen as.
It's just ridiculous.

323
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,960
We see it all the time as even
as teachers, the whole motherly

324
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,320
aspect and like, oh, men in a
job, TA is.

325
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,800
It's that extreme.
Again, if you work with a male

326
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,120
TA you straight away, it's
almost like a male nurse.

327
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,640
It like it just jumps out at you
as like, oh, why are you doing

328
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,200
this job?
This is for a motherly figure.

329
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,680
And I think a part of that, I do
think there's a tinge of

330
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:47,200
misogyny in there and I know
it's against a man and people

331
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,880
will be like, oh, it's always
misogyny.

332
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,720
Well, it kind of is in this
respect, because what we're

333
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,320
essentially saying is why is a
bloke doing this job that's

334
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:54,880
completely exploited for free
work?

335
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,480
Because they they shouldn't be
caring about the kids.

336
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,320
It's a motherly job to come and
care about the kids and do

337
00:12:58,320 --> 00:12:58,840
everything for.
Free.

338
00:12:59,000 --> 00:12:59,840
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

339
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,960
No, we're allowed to exploit
women.

340
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:02,160
Yeah, just not there.
Just not men.

341
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,440
Don't do that, man.
Get exploit, we don't notice it

342
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,160
when the man gets excited.
Exactly.

343
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,560
And I get the irony of two
blokes sat here talking about

344
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,960
primary school teaching, which
is dominated by women.

345
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:12,920
I understand it.
But I just think it's just rife.

346
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,840
And we just take advantage of
these lovely motherly type

347
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,480
figures, yeah, who step into
that teaching assistant role,

348
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,360
who go above and beyond
constantly, who are the glue

349
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,800
that hold together a lot of what
goes on in the school.

350
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,240
If you walk into any school, if
you ask someone, name the five

351
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,240
people in this school who hold
it together, name 5.

352
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,040
And I've always done this
thought experiment in my head.

353
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,360
Name 5 people in this building
who, if you took them out,

354
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,280
they'd have the biggest impact
on how the school is ran.

355
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:42,000
And the majority of the time
it's the people on the lowest

356
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,080
pay.
Yeah, Yeah, for sure, for sure.

357
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,080
I don't think there's ever like
I've watched in three different

358
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,760
schools and there's absolutely
no way that in my 5 that there's

359
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,000
not any Tas in that five,
despite there being like 40

360
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,160
members of staff at those
schools.

361
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,480
Like you could quite easily
justify.

362
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:55,960
Oh.
The TA didn't make it to that

363
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,080
top five.
Absolutely.

364
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:58,280
To do.
Definitely do.

365
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,320
Yeah, all the time.
Because it's about impact.

366
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,440
Yeah, it's not.
It was just about pay packet.

367
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:04,480
We have a different
conversation.

368
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,360
And I think, you know, a lot of
people do justify a bigger pay

369
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,080
packet.
I think teachers should be paid

370
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,760
more than teaching assistants.
I do think that leaders should

371
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,000
be paid more than teachers
because I get, I understand that

372
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,640
the responsibility grows and a
lot of leaders right now are

373
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,200
still doing classroom jobs.
We're going to get on to that

374
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,160
later when we talk about how
schools are being squeezed and

375
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,560
you need to get as much teaching
as squash squeeze, of course,

376
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,000
sorry, teach squeeze repose.
But I guess the yeah, the

377
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,960
overarching point here, we've
really gone on a tangent, which

378
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:34,600
I've quite enjoyed actually, is
just the consistent exploitation

379
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,600
of kindness and niceness does
seem to be something which is

380
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,840
rife in schools.
And it's it's such a shame that

381
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,840
bringing this up often is met by
oh, don't be negative.

382
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,320
These people just love the kids
are doing it for the kids.

383
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,400
What do you mean don't be that
it shouldn't all be about the

384
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:51,920
pay packet.
It shouldn't should it?

385
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,040
But when I'm on 7 lbs an hour it
does become about the pay pack.

386
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:56,880
It's like.
Yeah, definitely, definitely.

387
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,880
I want to know one thing before
we play the Jingle, which is

388
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:01,640
obviously been on my mind this
whole time and I've not really

389
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,360
been listening to you.
Am I in your top five?

390
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,400
I just need to know.
It does depend.

391
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,840
Top five what?
Top five most annoying people on

392
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:11,440
the planet?
Yes.

393
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:12,560
Oh, forget it, just play the
Jingle.

394
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,440
Right, with this new setup we've
got here, it's just gives me a

395
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,440
chance to get my iPad out.
So I've got my iPad now.

396
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,840
This is replaced our monitor
because I don't know if people

397
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,560
knew, but every time we would do
a podcast episode previously we

398
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:27,800
would just sat at your desk.
Yeah.

399
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,160
And in one of the monitors we
just have Word open.

400
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,160
Yeah, very crude plan.
With our plan.

401
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,160
So it's on the iPad now and now
I can't see it.

402
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,360
No, you can't see it.
So I'm really am like as if it

403
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:37,880
didn't.
Anyway, taking control of this

404
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,240
podcast and leading the way are.
You officially taking that role

405
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:42,640
post and I'm the Co.
Host.

406
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,160
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, when we set up our

407
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,640
personal Instagram maybe a good
time shout this out Mr Dot,

408
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,120
Dylan Price and Mr Dot Hayden
Stevens and but but obviously

409
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,680
you should go and follow the
podcast Instagram first at teach

410
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,720
that repeat podcast.
But either way, we we made it

411
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,160
and we wrote our BIOS completely
independently.

412
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,600
And I wrote host of teach the
repeat podcast because I am I'm

413
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,360
a host, your host as well, but
they knew on your own without

414
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,480
any input.
And this wasn't from me if you

415
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,040
wrote in.
Your I wrote Co host because I

416
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,240
acknowledge you.
When I when I posted both side

417
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,800
by side, it just naturally came
up with the bio, so mine, said

418
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,680
Denim Price host Hayden Stevens.
Co host.

419
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,280
You just can't.
I just can't not think of the

420
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,320
office.
I can't not think of assistant

421
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,480
to assistant to the regional
director of the podcast.

422
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,640
Right.
Anyway, let's dive into our main

423
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,920
chat this week.
This is something that's come up

424
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,280
a lot in general and and I think
it's finally having an impact on

425
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,640
scores.
And it's this idea of the birth

426
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,400
rate, the fertility rate as it's
also called.

427
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,520
And I want to start off by
talking about how it's dipped

428
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,840
massively.
So if you look at the headlines

429
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,160
in general across the world, the
fertility rate or the birth

430
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,920
rate, the the amount of children
we are having has dropped

431
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:52,880
massively.
Yeah.

432
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,200
And I just wanted to start off
by clarifying something because

433
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,680
I think it's really important.
And I fell into this trap and a

434
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,000
lot of people fall into this
trap and then down a conspiracy

435
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,400
rabbit hole and they hear the
word fertility rate dropping.

436
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,720
And I initially thought that
meant the literal like rate of

437
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,520
fertility of a man or a woman.
You would suit.

438
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:13,359
I, I can understand what you
think because I literally

439
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:14,560
thought the exact same thing,
right?

440
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,560
And I think a lot of people see
fertility rate dropping and they

441
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,720
suddenly get, get down rabbit
holes of 5G and COVID and jabs

442
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,119
and all this kind of stuff.
And it's just like, it's the

443
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:25,760
perfect example.
I've just slowed down and

444
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:26,880
actually look what something
means.

445
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,600
Because when we use the term
fertility rate in all of these

446
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,600
research and, and findings, what
we are literally talking about

447
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,480
is how many children are born.
And that is down to so many

448
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,240
other factors than simply how
well your swimmers are working.

449
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,080
OK.
So, so when we say fertility

450
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,440
rate and we hear fertility rate,
don't go down a rabbit hole of

451
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,680
thinking it's a biological shift
that's happening massively.

452
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,840
Maybe there's there's something
that's going on in general, but

453
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,960
as a whole, it's a lot of
factors coming into play.

454
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,600
So I just wanted to clarify that
for people.

455
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,760
But first, Hayden, before we
dive into how it's affecting

456
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,840
education, what we see right
now, because I'm seeing it in

457
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,160
the news and headlines a lot,
what's your understanding of the

458
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,920
current situation across the
world with this birth rate,

459
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,880
fertility rate?
Well, luckily, luckily for you

460
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,400
Dylan, I, I, I went down a
massive rabbit hole of this as

461
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,640
well a few a couple of months
ago now because I was fascinated

462
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,640
by this.
And firstly, to clarify for full

463
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,760
context, when we're looking at
birth rates to have what we call

464
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,000
the replacement rate, we're
looking at a rate of 2.1.

465
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,920
What that means is on average
people are having 2.1 children.

466
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,200
Obviously one person is not
going to have 2.1 children, but

467
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,000
it makes sense.
Two people having two children,

468
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,640
in a very crude sense, is going
to replace the population.

469
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,360
So 2.1 allows for, you know,
death.

470
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,360
I guess so, yeah.
And, and yeah, I don't know.

471
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:37,400
I don't know, but whatever.
For whatever reason, it's 2.1

472
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,400
rather than just two.
That makes sense.

473
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,600
So that.
That if we if we kept that 2.1

474
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,560
on average population would stay
the same.

475
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,520
Yeah, exactly.
Our population in any, in any

476
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,080
given country of the world just
wouldn't.

477
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:48,520
It wouldn't increase or
decrease.

478
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,400
It would just stay the same.
We're just replacing the humans

479
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,480
that we are when we die.
We've replaced it with one other

480
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,960
person sort of thing.
Now, across the world in the

481
00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,160
last couple of decades, the the
fertility rate, the birth rate

482
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,400
has dramatically reduced on
average across the whole world.

483
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,280
It's gone way below 2.
Yeah.

484
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,560
So I've got I've got some facts
here.

485
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,040
So I'll tell you right now UK
birth rates have declined to

486
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:14,080
their lowest levels since
records began in 1938.

487
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,240
So we are having fewer children
now than we have in 80 odd

488
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,960
years.
Only 605,000 babies were born in

489
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,000
2023 compared to 725,010 years
ago.

490
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:29,240
So it's dropping 100,000 the
total fertility rate in England

491
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,600
and Wales right now.
And when we say fertility rate,

492
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,720
we just mean children born is
1.49 children per woman, far

493
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,800
below the replacement level of
2.1.

494
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,960
Yeah.
So just based on what we've just

495
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,480
said there, we're seeing a
shrinking population.

496
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,400
Yeah, there's a couple of couple
of things to think about, right?

497
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,120
Because I remember having a
conversation with I think my

498
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,240
granddad about this, right?
And he was saying, well, it

499
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,880
makes sense that back in, you
know, backing like war ties and

500
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,120
things, and even before then
that people were having more

501
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,040
children because health
healthcare just wasn't as good.

502
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,120
Like people, people needed to
have more children for reasons.

503
00:19:58,120 --> 00:19:58,840
I'm not going to go.
Into.

504
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,520
Well, then the replacement rate
would have been higher than. 2.1

505
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,800
right, exactly that, right.
But but ultimately, like when

506
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,400
you get down to it, it just
logically obviously makes sense

507
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,080
that it can never be lower than
2.1, right?

508
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:10,240
It can never be lower than that.
If it is ever lower than that,

509
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,760
then the population will
decrease.

510
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:12,440
Sure.
OK.

511
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,160
And population was never
decreasing before.

512
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,360
So that that's just worth
clarifying that.

513
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:18,080
OK, there might be other factors
as to why it was higher back

514
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,280
then, but ultimately population
was always increasing.

515
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,040
Yeah.
And now it's not.

516
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because as soon as you get below

517
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,480
2, you are literally replacing
two people who give who who are

518
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,160
involved in a baby making
process with fewer than two

519
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:29,880
people.
Exactly.

520
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,880
OK, now the, and the second
thing I want to say is when I

521
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,240
was looking all this up before,
I remember, I think I remember

522
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,560
seeing that it was when it gets
to 1.8.

523
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,680
That was like a, that's like a
worry level.

524
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,640
That was like a, oh, a country
should probably start being

525
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,840
worried when their, when their
birth rate gets down to 1.8

526
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,480
because your population is going
to start decreasing.

527
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,240
And then 1.5 was like critical
level.

528
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,040
Right, 1.49 then.
Yeah, exactly.

529
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,640
So that's why it was in the news
a lot recently.

530
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,520
It was like, oh, we finally went
below the like critical level of

531
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,000
like it will have drastic,
drastic impacts on the on the

532
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000
future generations.
It's not like our society to

533
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,000
wait until something is
drastically horrendous to try

534
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:01,880
and try and address it.
Or.

535
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:02,960
Are we gonna try and address it
though of?

536
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:03,800
Course not.
Probably not.

537
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,880
No, because here's something I
wanted to talk about that

538
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,800
there's so many factors here as
to why this is happening.

539
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,000
And this is not down to just,
oh, it just seems to have

540
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,160
happened.
And it's so easy for conspiracy

541
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,760
theorists to point to something
out of the control and say,

542
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,520
look, it's the people at the top
making all this.

543
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,000
No, no, no, no.
Do you know what it is?

544
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,200
It's people literally who are my
age.

545
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,120
I didn't have a child until I
was 30.

546
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,360
When I was younger, I wanted
children earlier.

547
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,040
It wasn't viable.
I just, it wasn't viable for me

548
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,600
because I didn't feel like I was
in a position financially to

549
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,360
have a child and fully support
that child.

550
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,400
So I waited a little bit.
That was my decision.

551
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,120
That's happening across the
board are.

552
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:40,600
You sure it's not because we're
just a snowflake generation that

553
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:41,800
don't want to take any
responsibility?

554
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,240
Because I've heard that a lot on
Internet.

555
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,120
As well.
It's insane.

556
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:47,560
It's just it's just crazy.
It's just when both both

557
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,000
partners in a household have to
work essentially full time just

558
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,640
to keep a household afloat.
And then if you introduce a

559
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,360
child to that, we talked about
childcare costs, etcetera, it's

560
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,880
going to squeeze you massively.
It's not selfish to think, is it

561
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,360
worth me doing that yet?
I'm kicking, you're kicking it

562
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,080
down the can because you're
thinking, well, give me a few

563
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,520
years and maybe we'll build up
some, some some kind of ability

564
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,880
in our household to raise a
child in a way we want to raise

565
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,720
a child.
That's not selfish.

566
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,320
That's just people who are quite
intelligent, I think, and being

567
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,520
very rational, thinking what
would be best my unborn baby.

568
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,120
It would be maybe to wait a
little bit and.

569
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,640
And these factors aren't coming
out of nowhere.

570
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,680
It's not just that we're
suddenly more lazy as a

571
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,720
generation.
So we're suddenly don't care as

572
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:27,480
a generation.
Yeah.

573
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,720
It's that people have their own
individual choices, and even

574
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,400
those people come back and say
we can all choose to not have

575
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,720
kids if we want.
Yeah, of course you can.

576
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,400
I think that's completely fine.
Yeah.

577
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,760
But the reason this is dipped is
not because more people are

578
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,360
choosing, just they don't want
to have kids.

579
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,720
There's more people who feel
like they can't because of all

580
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:43,600
those extend.
Yeah, definitely.

581
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,160
And bear in mind what you're
talking about there is just

582
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,880
having one kid as well.
Yeah, that's still below the two

583
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:50,040
required to, to for the
replacement rate.

584
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:51,080
Yeah.
Now I speak to a lot of my

585
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,000
friends and I won't go back to
that point you just made because

586
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:54,640
I find it really interesting,
right?

587
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,080
A couple of my friends, I'd say
are probably in a position.

588
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,480
Most of my friends don't have
kids, just for context, which I

589
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,680
know most of your friend group
does and most of my friend group

590
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,480
doesn't, which is really
intriguing to me because I'm

591
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,560
like, oh, I'm sort of alone.
Now, and I tell you what, I'm

592
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,320
31, becoming 32 soon.
None of my friends have more

593
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,720
than two children.
Yeah.

594
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,240
OK, So even even when we're
looking at this context, if

595
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,840
you're saying my friends have
more children, every single

596
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,400
person who I know is below the
replacement rate anyway.

597
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:19,480
Of course.
Exactly.

598
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:20,680
Right.
Which is which is just crazy.

599
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,360
Now, when I speak to my friends
about children and things like

600
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:26,440
that, a lot of them, it's
actually not the financial

601
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,400
thing.
For some of them, it is.

602
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,360
It's like, oh, we just, we just
don't think we're in the

603
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:30,320
position.
I've literally had that

604
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,160
conversation where someone said
we just can't afford to have

605
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,240
kids.
We'd love to have kids, but we

606
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,080
just can't afford to.
And that sounds like horrible,

607
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:36,320
horrible.
That makes people really sad.

608
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,480
And the other one is I've got a
couple of friends who are like,

609
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,640
yeah, I just look at the
landscape of the world now and I

610
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,120
just don't want to.
And it's like that, that's the

611
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:46,240
side to me where I'm like, oh, I
wonder if that's, I wonder if

612
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,000
that is more of a thing now
where people are just like,

613
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,200
yeah, I don't think I want to
raise a child in in the state of

614
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,040
the world right now.
That is a thing, but I don't.

615
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,760
Know that's always been a thing.
I don't know if that's changed.

616
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,240
That'll be interesting to me to
know if people, people in 1944

617
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,600
were like, not sure if I want to
bring a child into the world

618
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:02,680
right now.
Like, I don't know, do you?

619
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,000
Know what I mean?
I mean, look at the height of

620
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,320
the Cold War for the 50s and 60s
and things like that.

621
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,200
It's like when nuclear
Armageddon was literally on the

622
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,640
doorstep.
People thought it might happen.

623
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,720
Maybe they didn't also want to
bring a child, but maybe they

624
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,160
just did it anyway.
So I don't know if that's always

625
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,960
changed, but it's always been an
interesting factor to me that

626
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,760
they've got the kind of money
side and you've got the side

627
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,160
side of people just being like,
I probably like, I don't mind

628
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,000
the idea of kids, but I just
don't want to bring them.

629
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,400
Into this world.
Now you're right.

630
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,320
I've had the argument a few
times, but the but the point

631
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,320
being it's dipped so much.
It has to be more than one

632
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,120
thing.
It has to be a culmination of

633
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:31,640
things.
And I do think it's so

634
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,200
blindsided just to say, oh, it's
the things that have happened

635
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,680
from the top down.
Government, of course.

636
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,120
Government.
Want more people.

637
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,400
Yeah.
Because do you know what people

638
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,640
do?
Pay taxes and sustain the state.

639
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,320
Yeah.
Ultimately, yeah.

640
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:43,440
But how do you think pensions
work?

641
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,920
I was about to say, do you know
what other people do?

642
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,920
They pay pensions for the for
the old generations.

643
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,680
This is something I've, I've
spoken, I've said this on the

644
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:49,920
podcast before.
I think when I say it again,

645
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,240
we've got a lot more listeners
since then.

646
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,480
And most people don't really
understand what a pension is and

647
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,400
what it does.
And that's not me degrading them

648
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,160
at all.
That's just, it's just one of

649
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,000
those things.
It's a blind.

650
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,360
Spot, we don't talk.
About it, we don't talk about it

651
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:02,120
at all.
And when you think of a pension,

652
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,600
I know a lot of people and I've
spoken to these people before

653
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,880
who had the idea that a pension
is essentially a savings

654
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,040
account.
So you put your pension aside

655
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,320
every month and you're building
up a part in a savings account

656
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,280
of that money you've literally
put in and you cash that money

657
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,800
out eventually.
And that is just not how saving,

658
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,760
how savings accounts, all
pensions work.

659
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,720
When you're putting that money
aside, the bank invests it, the

660
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,520
bank does what it wants, but it
lends that money out.

661
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:24,400
They're.
Making their money.

662
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,720
They're making their money and
they're they're boosting the

663
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,840
economy when they're investing
in things, investing in

664
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,200
businesses potentially.
And then eventually the idea is

665
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,000
that makes a return.
And then when you get to

666
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,040
retirement age, you can take
money back.

667
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,360
It's not the same money.
And what happens is at the point

668
00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:41,520
that you're taking a pension,
that money is coming from

669
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,520
businesses, workers tax,
etcetera, in that exact period

670
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,280
there.
So I'm not paying for my

671
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:48,720
pension.
Now by putting a pot away.

672
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,040
I'm essentially paying for the
pension from other people.

673
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,000
When I get to retirement age, if
there aren't enough working

674
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,640
people and the the population
decreases massively and those of

675
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,960
working age of way less than
those of pension age, there's

676
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,400
less money in the pot for me to
take.

677
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,000
Absolutely.
What I find fascinating about

678
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,080
the whole pension thing is that
in the, generally in the Western

679
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,720
world, now I'm going to
generalise quite a lot here by

680
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,680
saying the Western world,
obviously there's differences

681
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,600
between countries, right?
But generally speaking, I think

682
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,400
that, I think that the stat is
you need approximately 3 working

683
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,320
people to pay the pension for
one pensioner.

684
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,720
So that's roughly the ratio that
you need 3 working people pays

685
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,120
for one pension, which is why
our pension system is completely

686
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:32,160
built on a rising population.
And, and luckily that's always

687
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,000
existed.
And this is the first time where

688
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,120
it's like, oh, not having any
more.

689
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:38,200
Well, you know, the only thing
that's been propping up that

690
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,000
rising population is
immigration.

691
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,400
And people again don't want to
have this conversation where we

692
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,160
have been flatlining for a while
now fertility rates.

693
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,240
And the only reason that we've
been able to keep up with the

694
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,800
rising demand in work and the
rising demand of the state and

695
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,880
the NHS and pensions etcetera,
is because of working age people

696
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,440
coming into this.
Country, so our population.

697
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,680
Is increasing, so our population
is increasing, but it's not

698
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,280
through replacement of birth,
it's through immigration.

699
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,040
And again, we can have this
discussion about how immigration

700
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,640
people don't like it or they do
like it.

701
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,560
They have this argument.
And the bottom line is that

702
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,440
that's currently propping up
this country in terms of the

703
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:14,840
money.
They come in here and they

704
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,720
scavenge off us.
Okay, yeah, a very small

705
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,400
percentage do.
But also you are again, going to

706
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,040
sleepwalk into an even bigger
crisis.

707
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,240
If we just completely shut the
borders, this will happen

708
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,560
quicker and we will end up in a
dire situation sooner.

709
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,600
I'm not saying there's a right
or wrong answer here, I'm just

710
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,240
explaining that's a fact.
Yeah, yeah.

711
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,800
We're doing the transition
nicely, aren't we, into our new

712
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,360
politics.
But like, obviously, you know,

713
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,840
we are going to get to a point.
Here where we want to do the.

714
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,440
Foundation, don't we?
But yeah, and there's a couple

715
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,800
more things I think to say,
which is I think we should, you

716
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,840
can kind of see the future a
little bit in terms of how this

717
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,200
is going to play out.
Two things I want to say,

718
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,160
firstly, there's a good reason
governments don't really want to

719
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,480
address it.
It's because you're not in power

720
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,960
long enough.
We're talking about like

721
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,720
lifetime change.
We're talking about like you

722
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,160
need to implement things now
because it's going to impact it

723
00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:00,000
in 30-40, fifty, 60-70 years.
And we there are other countries

724
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,360
where this has been going on for
a lot longer, particularly in

725
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:05,800
the East where I think is it, is
it South Korea?

726
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,560
So South Korea their, I mean
guess if you're at home now and

727
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,600
all the context we've been
saying about how 1.8 is or we

728
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,120
should start thinking about it's
a problem. 1.5 is critical.

729
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,640
Just have a little guess now
before I tell the number what

730
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,360
you think it might be in.
This is a bad situation here.

731
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:21,520
Yeah, South Korea's the lowest,
right?

732
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:22,960
The lowest.
In the world, from what I could

733
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,200
see, it's the worst in the world
right now.

734
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,880
From my research, they're on a
replacement rate of 0.72.

735
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,840
Insane.
Less than one child, less than

736
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,000
one child per per per per
couple, per per woman.

737
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,600
Per woman.
Yeah, which which again, if you

738
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:36,640
look at the population, that's
half the.

739
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,400
Population, yeah.
And, and, and again, you know, I

740
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,440
don't want to get it completely
wrong, but I did watch a video

741
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,160
on this as well months ago when
I was looking at.

742
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,360
I was thinking like, how is that
going to work?

743
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,400
And the video unfortunately, was
a bit like, yeah, like South

744
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,520
Korea is like is, is basically
done like in 50-60 years, unless

745
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,120
they there's some something
drastic happens, which it's not,

746
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,880
then they're going to be,
they're going to be, it's just

747
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,200
going to ruin.
It's going to decimate that

748
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,360
population.
They can just, it's just,

749
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,640
there's just, it's going to half
and then half again and half

750
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:00,800
again.
That population is going to

751
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,920
exponentially decrease.
And I saw someone in the

752
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,920
comments that was like, oh, I
am, I'm from South Korea.

753
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,760
Just just before context here.
Our government never want to

754
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,640
address this because no one
wants to tackle the problem

755
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,200
because they'll be out of power
in three years anyway.

756
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,200
And it's, and it can only be a
detrimental effect.

757
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,320
We what we have to do.
We have to do this.

758
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,040
And we've spoken about this a
million times before because I

759
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,360
am all for the choice of people,
and I'm all four people deciding

760
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,360
not to have children.
I I don't think remotely it

761
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,560
should be played against you.
Yeah.

762
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,400
But what those people have to
do, they have to be loud about

763
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,840
this.
And we do too, is we have to

764
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,040
talk about how we, we have to
incentivize having children

765
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,880
because ultimately, at the end
of the day, what is the thing

766
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,800
that's going to continue the
population?

767
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,160
We have to have kids.
We have to.

768
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,800
So if someone's going to choose
to have kids because they want

769
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,280
to, that's great, fantastic.
And they choose not to because

770
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,760
they don't, OK, cool.
But we have to incentivize

771
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,960
having children.
We have to give tax breaks for

772
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,280
having children.
We have to plough more money

773
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,640
into education.
We have to plough more money

774
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,680
into childcare if we want to
have a society where you get all

775
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,520
the work that you do currently
out of people and you still want

776
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,200
that, You're going to have to
make hard decisions to fund

777
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,880
parents properly because at the
minute parents clearly aren't

778
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,520
funded properly, clearly.
And all we get is people

779
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,440
pointing at people who have are
people on the estate have seven

780
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,280
kids and they just pop them out
because they know they'll be

781
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,000
propped up.
They're living in poverty.

782
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,720
Yeah.
Then it's not like a life of

783
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,360
luxury.
Yeah.

784
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:24,680
Yeah.
It's not a lovely choice where

785
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:25,960
they are.
Let's have five more and then

786
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,800
hope for the best.
They're living in poverty.

787
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:28,960
Yeah.
And then the other end of the

788
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,920
scale, the people who aren't
doing that necessarily and are

789
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,000
thinking it through, which is
what this person wants.

790
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,800
Oh, think it's through.
Don't have kids if you can't

791
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,240
afford them.
They're not, they're not having

792
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,640
kids and they can't afford it.
And that's meaning that we have

793
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,240
a lower replacement rate than
ever before.

794
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,760
So there's not a solution to sit
there and complain.

795
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,000
Okay, what?
Yeah.

796
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,600
All these, these kids being
raised in poverty and these kids

797
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,840
who don't exist, that's the two
worst options, isn't it?

798
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,840
That's the two worst options.
So just moaning about it, that's

799
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,200
what would come out of what
you're saying.

800
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,920
Yeah, just don't have kids then.
OK, yeah, but Dylan, back in my

801
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,600
day, we just sucked it up and we
just got on with it.

802
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,280
We had kids, we worked 5 jobs if
we needed to, to put food on the

803
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:05,640
table.
Dylan, didn't you know that?

804
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,560
Oh yeah, I mean, I'm not going
to get into this, but clearly of

805
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,800
just, of course, it's just
laziness.

806
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,720
Obviously that's the only thing
that we can possibly think

807
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,000
about.
It's just laziness, so.

808
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,640
Let's just point the finger and
not solve it, yeah?

809
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:14,760
Exactly that.
Exactly that.

810
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,760
Just moan about people who do do
it, and then people who don't

811
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,480
moan about them as well.
Yeah, they should be having

812
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,480
kids.
Should we make it, incentivize

813
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,080
it then?
Let's let's let's link this then

814
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,680
to education, right?
It was like it was a hell of a

815
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,680
lot of context, but I think it
was important to understand

816
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,960
where we are in the world and
where we are as a country.

817
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,880
And, and just understanding how
the birth rate does mean a

818
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,080
decrease in population, which is
ultimately going to be dire for

819
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,760
the country, right?
In every, in every way.

820
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,320
So how is this link to education
then?

821
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,640
And what's what's the link here?
Well, the, the, the main link

822
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,960
here is essentially we have
school places, right.

823
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,880
As a country we have a certain
number of school places and

824
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,960
those school places directly
fund the school.

825
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,720
So if if a school has 100
children in a year group they

826
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,560
get roughly depending on needs
etcetera, HCPS of course people

827
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,320
premiums.
So there is there is nuance to

828
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,040
this, but roughly twice as much
funding as a school with 50

829
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:02,960
children.
Yeah, OK.

830
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,360
So what we're seeing
unfortunately is because we're

831
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,960
starting to get to the effects
now 1234 years down the line

832
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,280
where students, children start
going to school is that we're

833
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,400
not filling up the spaces.
No, in schools anymore, some

834
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,000
places we are, yeah, there are
obviously again there's more

835
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,280
nuances.
You might you might listen to

836
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,560
this thinking.
Oh, in my area it's still quite

837
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:23,560
tough to get a space.
Sure.

838
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,880
There are lots of socio economic
factors that might actually

839
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,280
affect an area as to where
whether there's lots of children

840
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,120
or not.
And you'd be unsurprised to know

841
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,360
that it's inner City Schools
that are being hit the hardest

842
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,200
here because again, think about
your normal working class person

843
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,880
in living in London.
The price of living in London is

844
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:41,880
insane.
Yeah.

845
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,960
All of these external factors
we've talked about that clearly

846
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,960
have having an effect, I think
are backed up as being true

847
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,080
because when you go to the
places where it's had the

848
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,200
highest cost of living, we're
seeing fewer children.

849
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,200
Being born.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

850
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,800
So inner City Schools, boroughs
like Camden, Hackney, Lambeth,

851
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,520
pupil numbers are falling fast,
right.

852
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,800
And I think just as a, as a kind
of side note here, the thing

853
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,280
that frustrates me is that we
knew this was going to happen,

854
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,240
that children who are four and
five years old going to school

855
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,280
now.
It's not like we've suddenly

856
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:10,880
realised that there's going to
be way A.

857
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,400
Couple of them, yeah.
More of them didn't just magic

858
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,720
into existence like when they
were.

859
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,040
Three, they were born four years
ago.

860
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,880
So this is the thing where I
look at it and just think, why

861
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,720
is this?
Why is this like creeping up on

862
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,080
us?
Why is schools closing

863
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,600
potentially next year because of
pupil numbers when we could have

864
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,400
just looked at the census and
been like, oh, that's going to

865
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:29,960
be a problem.
Let's let's mitigate it.

866
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,800
Let me think How does government
work?

867
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,680
Who was in power four years ago
and are they still in power now?

868
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:35,640
Of course they're not.
They don't care.

869
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:36,800
They didn't care because they
knew they wouldn't.

870
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:37,680
Because you know what they can
do now?

871
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:38,800
They can weaponize it.
Yeah.

872
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,040
When a school closes, they can
point to it and go.

873
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,680
That's because a private school
tax, you put in it and then when

874
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:44,920
the school next week closes,
they can go.

875
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,640
That's because the birth rate's
low and you're not doing

876
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,000
anything about it.
Yeah, sorry.

877
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,440
You, who was in charge for 15
years.

878
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,240
Yeah, why don't you, Neki, just
don't care.

879
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,800
And you know what?
I can't imagine there is going

880
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,840
to be any government that cares,
genuinely, because they are.

881
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,080
They will all just pass the
buck.

882
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,720
Well, we're probably going to be
in power for much longer, so you

883
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:00,920
deal with it.
Yeah, completely.

884
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,160
Well, the the the end of the day
as well, right.

885
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,440
If if children, the number of
children is decreasing, you

886
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,040
know, should we, should we be
funding 100 space primary school

887
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,560
with the same level of funding
as we do if there's only 70

888
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,560
children going?
Probably not like like

889
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:17,920
realistically, But this isn't
where the issue lies.

890
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,199
This is where it's frustrating
because you can get to this

891
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,440
point now and be like, well, I
can justify this school merger.

892
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,960
I could justify this downsizing
of a school, reducing the

893
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,480
intake.
I can justify this school for

894
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,800
being forced to close because
then there's just not enough

895
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:31,760
money because there's just
fewer.

896
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,920
Children and all it means is a
few people lose their jobs.

897
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,880
But we didn't hear that bit.
It just means a few a bunch of

898
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,719
people gonna lose their jobs.
But whatever, you know, because

899
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,440
it's a good move, isn't it?
It doesn't matter that a few

900
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:40,280
people are gonna.
Lose their jobs.

901
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,560
Yeah, I know.
So the BBC reported over 100

902
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,600
schools in England are at risk
of closure in the next few

903
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:45,000
years.
OK.

904
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:48,560
The I think the big impact we're
seeing and the reason that's

905
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,920
forcing these mergers and these
closures and we'll come on to

906
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,000
vacancies and redundancies in a
minute, is because if you have

907
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,000
20 spaces all of a sudden and
let's just say roughly ��5000 per

908
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,440
children is your funding.
Yeah, that's 100,000 lbs.

909
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:01,640
Yeah.
That your school will be getting

910
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:02,440
less of.
Yeah.

911
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,480
And we already know how tight
funding is.

912
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,640
Yeah.
It's not as if that 100,000 lbs.

913
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,960
Oh, because it's per pupil, we
can just scale that down and be

914
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:09,640
OK.
Yeah.

915
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,360
No, no, you're going to scale
down a building, are you?

916
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,080
And the cost of running a
building, right.

917
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:14,440
And of course you're not going
to scale that down.

918
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:15,400
That stays the same.
Yeah.

919
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,280
Or we can turn a few lights off
now because the rooms not being

920
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,520
used here, but come on.
Yeah, that's not how it works.

921
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,000
No, no, completely.
And do you want empty

922
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,240
classrooms?
Yeah, really.

923
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:25,320
Like it's just crazy.
And what the schools that are

924
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,240
closing doing just sat there,
what they're going to become

925
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:30,640
redundant, derelict.
And then if, if, when pupil

926
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,560
numbers rise again, hopefully in
the future, are we going to open

927
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:34,520
these schools up again?
Yeah.

928
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,280
Yeah, and have to spend tonnes
of money refurbishing.

929
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,360
Them getting ready, just
waiting.

930
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,160
I mean, it, it's, it's such a,
what I would say about this is

931
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,440
it's such a sad situation
because it is probably the right

932
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,360
thing to be doing, but it's
because of a situation we've let

933
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,240
stagnate and let come.
And it's the direct result, I

934
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,840
think of just the social
collapse of this country and,

935
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,200
and like the whole idea of just
like the what is the point?

936
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,280
There are parents thinking,
what's the point in having a?

937
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,800
Kid right now this is really
depressing, but it's true.

938
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,040
I do.
I think it's true.

939
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,280
I think it's true.
And look, let's be real for a

940
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,520
second.
You and I have left teaching.

941
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,640
OK.
So we we are leaving teaching at

942
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,280
the end of this year.
We've got the rest of this time

943
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,240
left.
And I'm going to enjoy it as

944
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:14,040
much as I can.
But then next year we're not

945
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,520
teaching in our school anymore.
Yeah.

946
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,640
And when we left, I think
looking at the census and the

947
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,400
number of children around us and
the intake and what's coming up

948
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,000
to our schools or Junior School,
that it was a bit of a relief

949
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,480
for those in power that teachers
were choosing to leave because

950
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,440
we're going to have some really
harsh conversations in the

951
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:33,600
future.
Yeah, definitely.

952
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,480
Like, like, you know, just let's
just be really real for a minute

953
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,520
in our area.
So we do live in an area where

954
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,080
population is decreasing quite
rapidly.

955
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,880
I don't know if it's like
compared to other areas and if

956
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,560
it's worse or whatever, but it
but our population is

957
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,640
decreasing.
And I know because there was big

958
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,520
conversations last year and the
year before about it.

959
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,480
All of the local schools were
saying, right, we're going to

960
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,760
have to really think about what
we're going to do in two, 3-4

961
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,240
years because there literally
aren't enough kids coming up

962
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:57,040
through nurseries right now.
There's not going to be enough

963
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,200
kids in infant schools.
I saw a couple of years ago

964
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,640
infant schools starting to
reduce their class sizes, Sorry,

965
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:02,800
reduce the number of classes
they have.

966
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,200
They were going from three form
schools to two form schools.

967
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,840
There's one teacher made
redundant, right?

968
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:08,920
And it, and it is happening in
our school.

969
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,160
You know, we've, we've obviously
left.

970
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,720
And I do feel like it was maybe
at the right time for them

971
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,800
because I do think in the next
couple of years, they're

972
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,920
probably going to be looking at
redundancies and getting rid of

973
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,440
teachers because there's not
enough kids being born in our

974
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,720
area.
Our school's going to have to

975
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:23,160
have that conversation.
So I do feel like it was, you

976
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,560
know, a silver lining maybe to
us leaving as our school maybe

977
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,120
doesn't have to have that
conversation for a bit.

978
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,760
Was our jobs weren't advertised.
Yeah, we're not being replaced.

979
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,920
So, so this this, this is what
wound me up this week.

980
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,080
OK, so I, I saw an article all
about the the headline stats for

981
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,000
teachers, number of teachers
leaving.

982
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,200
It's still over 40,000.
OK, so still a huge problem.

983
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,520
Dropped by like less than one
percentage point.

984
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,640
So, you know, some people out
there were saying, well, it's

985
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,280
dropping, isn't that good?
I was like, it means negligible.

986
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,880
Like, you know, it's still over
40,000 teachers leaving.

987
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,400
And the thing that really,
really frustrated me massively

988
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,240
was the headline that there are
fewer, fewer vacancies than ever

989
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,240
for teachers because it's a
headline.

990
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:05,160
Doesn't that sound great?
But we're filling, We're filling

991
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,040
these places up, aren't we?
The vacancies don't exist

992
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,320
anymore.
No, because do you know why

993
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,160
vacancies are lower than ever
And and we we're filling up more

994
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,040
vacancies as a percentage
because there are fewer jobs.

995
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,760
Yeah, me and Dylan and ours job,
just to make it really clear, we

996
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,760
just said it.
Our jobs are not have not been

997
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,960
advertised.
We are not being replaced.

998
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,720
Yeah, OK.
And obviously like we might

999
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:26,080
physically, but maybe shuffling
around teachers in our school,

1000
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,000
but it but in our school there
are two teacher jobs that

1001
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,480
existed this year that do not
exist next year from us leaving.

1002
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:32,480
Yeah.
And that is happening

1003
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:33,640
everywhere.
We're not an anomaly.

1004
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,720
Yeah, so it mean it looks great,
doesn't it?

1005
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:36,840
Yeah.
Oh, 40 fans, you said.

1006
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,360
But the redundancies are cool
that because that vacancy never

1007
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:41,280
existed.
Yeah.

1008
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,000
It never existed in the 1st
place.

1009
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,680
And I know for a fact again, and
previously when vacancies were

1010
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:47,760
put up, they weren't being
filled.

1011
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,000
Yeah.
They weren't being filled

1012
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,640
because there wasn't enough
people who wanted to do it.

1013
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,080
And now we're at the point where
we're going to be squeezing it

1014
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,120
so much that it's going to
overlap at some point the number

1015
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,920
of jobs in primary school,
because the number of primary

1016
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,240
school teachers dipped as well.
Yeah.

1017
00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:01,480
So secondary school rose.
The primary school dipped

1018
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,040
because of what we're saying, of
course.

1019
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,200
And I've heard of so many people
being made redundant just

1020
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:07,640
saying, OK, that job can't exist
anymore.

1021
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,200
Yeah, it's, it's for a
combination of reasons which is

1022
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,120
funding is squeezed anyway and
look into the future.

1023
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,080
We're going to have to say 50K
and and you know, this assistant

1024
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,480
head job doesn't exist anymore.
Sorry, they made redundant.

1025
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,880
Yeah, everyone, everyone else's
workload goes up a little bit.

1026
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,480
It's a net loss in every way.
Do you know what I mean?

1027
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,320
There's there's no gain to that.
There's no win.

1028
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,340
It's, I see it almost similar to
what we spoke about with part

1029
00:39:30,340 --> 00:39:32,400
time, Jeremy said.
When you go part time still a

1030
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,640
big chunk of the job is just you
have to be working 100% sure if

1031
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,120
the children if a children
children in your school were

1032
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,040
halved, it doesn't half your
workload.

1033
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,520
No, absolutely not.
Remotely.

1034
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:42,720
No.
The amount you know, you still

1035
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:45,120
got to do all of the stuff that
comes with running a school.

1036
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,000
Yeah, maybe there's fewer
children to go through and you

1037
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,320
have fewer children on your SEND
list and there's fewer children

1038
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,360
to account for.
But at the end of the day, there

1039
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,920
is a baseline level of work that
needs to be done, whether you're

1040
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,120
a school that's one form or a
school that's four form.

1041
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:58,720
That's why working in a school
that's one form is just so much

1042
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:00,040
more work.
It's a bit like the tax system,

1043
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,920
isn't it?
It's like if you if you drop to

1044
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,520
50%, you don't lose 50% of your
pay because of the way you've

1045
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,120
always got a guaranteed chunk of
your income that's tax free.

1046
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:08,440
It's the same sort of analogy,
isn't it?

1047
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,520
Like the idea in the head.
Yeah, it doesn't work like that.

1048
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,640
Do you think at all the move to
ECT from NQT?

1049
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,160
So NQT for anyone knowing if you
could qualify teaching and NQT

1050
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,280
be like one year, kind of like a
final step where you are

1051
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,240
qualified, you're getting paid,
but one year of just like

1052
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:24,920
probation almost.
Your first year of being.

1053
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,400
Your first year of being a
qualified teacher, newly

1054
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,000
qualified teacher changed to
ECT, which was early careers

1055
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,680
teacher and the point being that
it moved from one year to two

1056
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,600
year.
I've heard a lot of chat about

1057
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,840
how that move is masking over
the the kind of retention crisis

1058
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,720
because a lot more people are
choosing to see out the two

1059
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:43,360
year.
So they're getting halfway

1060
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:44,440
through their ECT.
Yeah.

1061
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,240
Like when it's NQT, you'd finish
your NQT.

1062
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:47,200
Yeah.
And be like, it's not for me,

1063
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,480
I'm out.
But a lot of people now with ECT

1064
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,400
are getting one year into their
ECT and they're making that

1065
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,480
choice to be like, OK, just one
more year, let's get the ECT

1066
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,280
done, Let's get this.
I can't.

1067
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:58,840
Imagine that being a fact that
would change my mind.

1068
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,880
I suppose the only thing that
could be is if there are perks

1069
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,440
for being an ECT in terms of
like time.

1070
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,600
Yeah, because I know when I was
in NQT and I really don't know

1071
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,320
if this is the case to anyone.
We're very naive here because we

1072
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,280
haven't actually spoke to many
ECTS in the last few years.

1073
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:13,240
But but when I was an NQTI did
get like an extra 10% out of the

1074
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:15,240
classroom to because I was an
NQT.

1075
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:17,960
And I don't know if that's still
a thing of being an ECT, but

1076
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,440
that might be a might be enough
to sway someone to be like,

1077
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,720
well, you know, I don't mind it
too much right now.

1078
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:25,000
I'll stay the extra year.
But next year when I'm losing

1079
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,280
that 10%, no way.
I'm done.

1080
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:27,560
Yeah, I can barely manage it
now.

1081
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,280
Yeah, I don't know.
Maybe I don't know much about

1082
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:30,360
that.
Just a few people mention it

1083
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,320
just from talking to us
basically be like, oh, I'll just

1084
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:33,760
do my ECT.
And then then we'll see.

1085
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,280
Right.
OK.

1086
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,200
And yeah, I just think that's
going to mask it basically

1087
00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:39,840
because what's going to end up
happening is that teachers

1088
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,320
leaving the profession in the
next two, 3-4 years will

1089
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,280
actually be a good way of
masking the issue of fewer

1090
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,880
teaching jobs, redundancies,
etcetera.

1091
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:54,080
And I do worry and I do, I do
get frustrated that it will be

1092
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,680
politicised into a positive.
Yeah, of course it will.

1093
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,920
That's what disappoints me the
most in all honesty about it.

1094
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,600
Not maybe not the most, but it
disappoints me with Labour

1095
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,520
because obviously we were, we
were, we were, you know, well up

1096
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,720
for them getting into power and
maybe again to get rid of the

1097
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:08,480
Tories.
But but I was well up for Labour

1098
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,840
and I really hoped they were
going, they were going to be

1099
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,400
great.
And they are doing lots of good

1100
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,040
things, don't get me wrong.
But they are, they do absolutely

1101
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:16,840
capitalise off of stuff like
this like they have.

1102
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,600
Absolutely.
They're not stupid.

1103
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,520
Yeah, they absolutely know
exactly what we're saying right

1104
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,000
here is true.
And they've gone.

1105
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,120
Should we spin it this way,
though, so it just looks

1106
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,480
positive?
Should we just think, should we

1107
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,560
just not tell everyone that it's
because birth rate is so low

1108
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,440
that like teachers aren't even
being replaced and actually

1109
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,120
people who made redundant,
that's why there's not as many

1110
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,920
vacancies?
Or should we just say, oh,

1111
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,640
vacancies are down, look how
good we are?

1112
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,440
They're like, yeah, do that one.
And I get why they do it.

1113
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,880
It's a whole thing is a game,
isn't it?

1114
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,760
But it's like it's just
exhausting.

1115
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,560
It is frustrating.
I think again, as we getting

1116
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,760
older and older, you know, as we
getting older and older and we

1117
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,600
see more of this cycle come
through, I'm seeing a lot more,

1118
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,680
I, I understand a lot more
people who have been through

1119
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,200
this and they say, yeah, just
hold off because, you know,

1120
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,400
don't get me wrong, tomorrow if
there was another election, I'd

1121
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,280
vote for Labour.
Yeah, I'd vote for Labour

1122
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,560
tomorrow because I do think
their attitude in general

1123
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,840
towards education is better.
And I do think their attitude to

1124
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,080
fixing things that are important
to me personally, Yeah, aligns

1125
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,360
more with what I'm saying.
Yeah, I do still think that.

1126
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,800
But it doesn't, don't get me
wrong, I'm really frustrated.

1127
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,480
I'm really frustrated.
And when when you get the

1128
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,280
education secretary basically,
you know, talking against the

1129
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,520
union, classic rhetoric that if
the Tory ministers were doing

1130
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,320
it, we'd be sat here saying
ridiculous, you've got a side of

1131
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,120
your teachers.
The unions are the teachers.

1132
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,840
They're not this separate BLOB
that are just infiltrating our

1133
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,920
minds.
We very much are the unions.

1134
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,400
We are part of the union and
they speak for us when we vote

1135
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,400
yes, that's our vote and our
voice.

1136
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,160
So when you're disregarding the
unions as just like not thinking

1137
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,040
about the kids or caring about
the kids, you are saying that I

1138
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,120
don't care about the kids and
that's disgusting.

1139
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,160
I'm wrong and it really winds me
up and I'm just just just, you

1140
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,000
could have your rhetoric, just
tone it down a bit, just be on

1141
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,880
the side of the people who
actually, you know, are your

1142
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,080
strongest supporters.
Just just do it.

1143
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,920
Just just just back us a little
bit.

1144
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,200
And that, that really frustrated
me and really annoyed me.

1145
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,680
And when I'm seeing things like
this happen now, I would be OK

1146
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:10,040
with a, with a Labour government
coming out and saying it's

1147
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,240
because of this, it's because of
this decline in birth rate.

1148
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,800
And that's because of, you know,
the, the, the rates of children

1149
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,800
is dropped because of all of
these problems that we've seen

1150
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,080
over the past how many years.
And here's our plan to help

1151
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,400
tackle it.
Here's our incentivization for

1152
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,240
people to have children so that
as a society we move on because

1153
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:25,640
all that's happening at the
minute is a lot of dog

1154
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:26,200
whistling.
Yeah.

1155
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:27,400
We're going to reduce
immigration.

1156
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,480
We're going to reduce
immigration.

1157
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:28,760
Yeah.
OK.

1158
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:29,960
We're going to.
We're going to talk about the

1159
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,440
whole replacement theory.
Like, not replacement theory,

1160
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,080
that's some right wing
conspiracy thing.

1161
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:35,480
But.
But what I mean is the

1162
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:36,880
replacement rate.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1163
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:38,640
We're going to talk about how.
That's going to impact that.

1164
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,240
And then we're not going to have
enough working people in the

1165
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:43,080
future in this country because.
Because actually, if I just say

1166
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,360
we're gonna reduce immigration,
it might get me a good headline

1167
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,600
in the Daily Mail, which is the
people we're trying to convince.

1168
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:48,600
Yeah.
What about me?

1169
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,960
What about the people who you've
already convinced are already

1170
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:51,840
part of this job?
Don't care.

1171
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,320
We just want to swing some
voters away.

1172
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,160
From from the right to our side
completely.

1173
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,040
You gonna lose us.
Yeah, it's happening already.

1174
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,120
People are walking away.
That's why there's a huge

1175
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,760
rebellion of Labour MPs right
now about the the disability and

1176
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,440
welfare cuts, because that's
fundamentally why they got into.

1177
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,200
Politics.
Yeah.

1178
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,360
And there's a comes a point
where you don't just sit there

1179
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,960
and go like, oh, well, they're
the red team, so I'm going to

1180
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:11,120
back them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1181
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,240
There comes a point where
playing the game, which is what

1182
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,040
the politicians generally do,
playing the game can actually

1183
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:17,800
just lose all your supporters.
You can actually just switch

1184
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,000
sides because I'm just playing
the game so well that no one

1185
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,080
actually backs me anymore.
Yeah, yeah, maybe don't do that.

1186
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,040
That's probably not the best
way.

1187
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,440
You're not convincing people and
you're losing your base.

1188
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,920
So well done.
Yeah, we'll see how that goes.

1189
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,440
So realistically, they're
probably looking at this.

1190
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,280
Thinking we probably won't be in
power next time anyway because

1191
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:32,440
we're absolutely decimating
ourselves.

1192
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,520
So do we need to worry about
this thing now, kick it down the

1193
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:35,880
road another three years.
They can deal with it then.

1194
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,560
And then they'll do the same.
And then they'll do the same.

1195
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,000
And then we'll suddenly be like
South Korea and we'll be like,

1196
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,000
oh, it's, it's 15 years down the
line now.

1197
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,360
It's completely too late to do
anything.

1198
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,160
Our, our birth rate is at like
an uncontrollably downward

1199
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,880
spiral.
Like we've already raised a like

1200
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,640
an entire generation's worth of
children.

1201
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,720
Whether the birth rate, whether
the birth rate is tiny, they

1202
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:54,720
already won't be able to pay for
pensions for 15 years in the

1203
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:56,360
future now, which will
absolutely decimate our country.

1204
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:57,560
It's too late.
Oh, oops.

1205
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,000
But luckily I'm 65 and I'm a
politician, so I don't care.

1206
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,840
Yeah, yeah, I've got my trust
fund from.

1207
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,600
Earlier, I want you to talk
about something because I know

1208
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:05,840
you're passionate about it.
I love doing that.

1209
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:06,640
Yeah.
Yeah, let's do it.

1210
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,400
It's podcast after all.
I want to put it to you now

1211
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:14,080
about how all of this, all of
this kind of background is

1212
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,520
massively exacerbating a problem
that already existed because of

1213
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,360
squeezed funding, which is the
experienced teacher is just

1214
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,080
disposable, completely
disposable.

1215
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,960
Because the experienced teacher,
it doesn't matter anymore that

1216
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,800
they've been teaching for 15
years, doesn't matter anymore

1217
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,720
that they know the curriculum
inside out, doesn't matter

1218
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:34,080
anymore what kind of outcomes
they get.

1219
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,280
They cost ��15,000 a year more
than an inexperienced teacher.

1220
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,840
How do you think this is going
to play out in the next few

1221
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,320
years as this problem inevitably
becomes more and more of an

1222
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:46,360
issue?
I think.

1223
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,920
I think we'll see an issue that
we already have being even more

1224
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,160
exaggerated, which is, and I'm
seeing it online already because

1225
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,840
it's a lot of people who are
saying that oh I can't get a job

1226
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,520
now unless I agree to cut down
like 2 pay points because I'm on

1227
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,640
M6 or I'm on UPS.
I'm on the upper pay scale.

1228
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,880
So I mean paid a lot more,
significantly more compared to a

1229
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,600
newly qualified teacher on ECT.
So basically I either don't have

1230
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,760
a job anymore if I I either
stick at the school I'm at and

1231
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,360
they have to put up with me
because they can't fire me.

1232
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,880
So I've just got to stay here
forever if I want this job, but

1233
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,360
if I want to move, I have to
take a pay cut or just not get a

1234
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,400
job, right?
I think that's going to happen

1235
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,560
more and more and more.
And I think older teachers are

1236
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,760
going to leave the profession
and we're going to have as many

1237
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,200
Ects as possible and cheaper
teachers as possible.

1238
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,800
And we're just going to drive
away experience because we can't

1239
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,800
afford it anymore.
And we're going to go, oh, well,

1240
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,480
that's what we have to do.
And everyone's, everyone will

1241
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:38,160
know.
Everyone will know.

1242
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,920
Obviously there's, there's a
reason we pay people for

1243
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,880
experience is because they're
experienced and they're good at

1244
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:42,600
their jobs.
Like it does.

1245
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,760
Actually, there is merit in that
and it is worth the experience,

1246
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,840
but we simply can't afford it
because oh, people numbers are

1247
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:48,800
dropped.
We can't afford it anymore.

1248
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,360
We can either let you both off
or just let you off.

1249
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:56,080
Oh, let's maybe get rid of you
and and have two, two cheaper

1250
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:56,720
teachers.
I don't know.

1251
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,160
So what?
What would you say to someone

1252
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,360
who comes back to that?
And says, are you degrading EC

1253
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,440
TS?
So many of our listeners, Hayden

1254
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,840
right now are EC TS who are
listening to this and you're

1255
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,240
basically saying they're worst
teachers.

1256
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:09,400
What's wrong with an ECT?
I think it just goes back.

1257
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,880
To what I just said about
experience like the the I just

1258
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,360
do the counter.
Are you degrading what 10 years

1259
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,240
of experience in teaching are
you saying that's worth

1260
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,080
literally nothing?
Did you get nothing because I

1261
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,560
tell you what put me up against
my NQT self.

1262
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,320
I am world better at every
single element of teaching than

1263
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,440
that, than that guy was.
I just am because I've because

1264
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,560
of my 10 years experience.
Yeah, It doesn't mean I'm if

1265
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,600
you, you can't put me up against
a different NQTA, different ECC,

1266
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,520
because I'd be much better you
because obviously you're you're

1267
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:35,840
insanely good.
You know, everyone praised you

1268
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,560
as you walk through the school.
So that's that's what people

1269
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:39,880
like to do.
They're saying, oh, you're

1270
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,080
putting yourself against other
people.

1271
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,000
No, no, no, I'm not.
I'm just saying in general,

1272
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,680
yeah, we can use generalisation
sometimes for the good.

1273
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:47,880
Oh, OK, we can.
We can.

1274
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,080
Generally, if you've done the
job for, you're generalising a

1275
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,000
hypothetical.
Don't do that.

1276
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,000
You know more stuff.
You know how to.

1277
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,240
Do things more efficiently.
Better doesn't mean you

1278
00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:59,120
everything's better.
I'm sure I'm more complacent in

1279
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,000
some areas than I was.
I was going to come back to you

1280
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,160
and say this.
Do you not think?

1281
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,120
OK, be honest, be brutally
honest.

1282
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,200
Now, was your attitude better?
Yeah, absolutely my attitude.

1283
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:10,840
Was better, Was I more
malleable?

1284
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,480
Yeah.
Great in the eyes of SLT.

1285
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:14,160
Did I work longer hours?
Great in it?

1286
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:15,400
Yes.
Right.

1287
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,280
When I use better very loosely
in that.

1288
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,080
Time, you know exactly what I
mean exactly.

1289
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,520
Better, right.
But again, does that not fall

1290
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,440
into the trap of that's why it's
happening right now?

1291
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because the older teachers like

1292
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:26,680
I sit there and say that's
ridiculous.

1293
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,480
No, whereas the newer teachers
in general, and I do think this,

1294
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,720
we're bucking the trend now in a
really good way where we ECT's

1295
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:36,040
are standing up for their
rights, etcetera, are more

1296
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,320
likely to be like, yeah, sure,
I'll do that.

1297
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:38,720
I'm I'm young, I don't have a
family.

1298
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,720
I want to just finish off maybe
this discussion about

1299
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:43,480
experienced teachers, because I
think you made your point very

1300
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:44,960
clearly and it's happening and
it's a shame.

1301
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,680
But in a in a if you were to
walk into a an amazing school,

1302
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,160
what kind of mixture of teachers
would you see in terms of

1303
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,440
experience?
What would you want to see?

1304
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,320
What do you think is a good
because you don't do you want

1305
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,640
exclusively 15 year plus in a
school?

1306
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,800
Yeah, I think if you were being.
Idealistic, you might say.

1307
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,120
On paper that might be the best
outcome because everyone's the

1308
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:05,920
most experienced they can be.
Doesn't work in the real world

1309
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,280
though, does it?
Because we do need training, we

1310
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,320
do need new teachers.
It's like the replacement rate

1311
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,400
thing, but in teaching, right, I
do need it.

1312
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,880
So I think you, I think you
should see a honestly a really

1313
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,800
good balance all the way across
the spectrum.

1314
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,160
I think a really good school if
again, if we're generalising and

1315
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,600
we need and our country needs to
develop over the next 20 years

1316
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,520
and have more teachers that also
become experienced, they do need

1317
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,160
to start somewhere.
So we do need every school

1318
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,160
realistically on average should
have a bunch of Ects all the way

1319
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:31,600
up to a bunch of really
experienced teachers.

1320
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,560
The Etts can learn from the
really experienced teachers and

1321
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:36,760
the really experienced teachers
can also learn from the Ects.

1322
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,680
Because like we've just said,
there are perks to being an ECT

1323
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,440
compared to being maybe a
complacent tenure in teacher

1324
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,040
like I probably am right now in
a lot of aspects of my job.

1325
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:46,920
It's pros and cons, pros and
cons and.

1326
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,520
Cons And when I think back to
being a newly qualified teacher,

1327
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:52,960
I would, I'm going to go as far
to say is that every single

1328
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,920
thing that I learned that has
stayed with me as good practise

1329
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,160
has come from watching
experienced teachers.

1330
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,760
Yeah, I think that's invaluable.
I think that link between

1331
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,680
experienced teachers and newly
qualified teachers is invaluable

1332
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,600
because you just see things you
don't get out of a textbook, you

1333
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,480
see things you don't get out of
university lecture.

1334
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,480
And ultimately when you're doing
your placement and you're with

1335
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,400
one class teacher, you see one
class teachers teach and then

1336
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:17,920
you're just doing it yourself.
Yeah, Yeah.

1337
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,480
I was incredibly lucky and I, I
talked about Fran a lot.

1338
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,440
Fran was my class teacher when I
trained.

1339
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,240
We work for now still.
I was so lucky that I, I've said

1340
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:29,320
this before, I just copied her.
She was such a good teacher that

1341
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,680
I could sit there and watch.
And then I thought to myself,

1342
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,240
cool, well, I'm brand new, so
I'm just going to, that seems to

1343
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:35,400
work.
The kids are happy and they're

1344
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:36,800
learning a lot, so I'm just
going to copy her.

1345
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,640
And then from then on, when I
went out to observe different

1346
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,400
people, I observed a teacher
called Lynn.

1347
00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:46,000
She was unbelievable with the
kids, had a smaller group,

1348
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,960
children who struggled to read.
Experienced, very experienced

1349
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,600
teacher.
Taught some of my friends when

1350
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,800
they were in school.
Yeah, unbelievably good.

1351
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,920
Again, I I got loads of
behaviour management from her

1352
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,160
just from watching her for
honestly, 15 minutes.

1353
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,880
Yeah, Yeah.
And I do think that we're going

1354
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,560
down a very, very bad Rd at the
minute where these experienced

1355
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,200
teachers are being lost from
school.

1356
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,280
Newer teachers are going to lose
their experience and newer

1357
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,000
teachers are going to rely on
trial and error, which will get

1358
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,280
which will improve them,
obviously, but they're going to

1359
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,880
miss out on them.
Golden Nuggets of that person's

1360
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,680
been a teacher for 25 years and
she does this unbelievably well.

1361
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,040
And she's got a track record for
the last 15 years getting out of

1362
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:23,720
the kids.
Go and watch her.

1363
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,720
She's so good at that.
One of the huge, I want to

1364
00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:26,720
finish with this.
One of the huge.

1365
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:28,320
Catch 20 twos.
I think this whole thing right

1366
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,480
is a really good thought
experiment is comparing to the

1367
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,800
private industry, right?
When you when you're paying for

1368
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,320
experience in the private
industry, you're quite often

1369
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,680
paying for efficiency.
You're paying someone more

1370
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,760
because they can do the two hour
job in one hour now because

1371
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:41,840
they're just so good at it
right.

1372
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:47,400
And the the catch 22 in
education is this huge part of

1373
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,360
what makes experience
worthwhile, which is efficiency.

1374
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,000
There are other elements, like
you said, of just literally

1375
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:52,960
knowing just knowledge and
stuff.

1376
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,280
Yeah, of course.
But a lot of it is efficiency.

1377
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,480
I can do things way I can do
things in a lot, a lot of time,

1378
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,040
which means I can do more jobs
now in school than I could have

1379
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,520
done when I was an ECT.
Yeah, that part doesn't matter.

1380
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,080
Do you know why?
Because we've built this perfect

1381
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,600
system of time doesn't matter
because you'll do it all in your

1382
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,920
own time.
So schools that well, I say

1383
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:11,400
schools, that's a very loosely
point.

1384
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,120
It doesn't matter now if you're
efficient or not because the NQT

1385
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,320
will just spend 3 hours doing it
and I'll spend one hour doing no

1386
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:18,840
one cares.
They paid the same, do it your

1387
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:20,400
own time.
No one cares because that's what

1388
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,240
this system is built on.
It's built on martyrdom.

1389
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,520
So, so don't care.
Efficiency.

1390
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,000
There you go.
There's half of what makes

1391
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,080
experience worthwhile gone.
Now I can justify.

1392
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,240
Do I really need to pay this
much more for this teacher?

1393
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:32,960
Yeah, because they're because
they they could.

1394
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:34,040
They're way better at doing
these jobs.

1395
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,520
They can get them done quicker.
Yeah.

1396
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,080
I don't really care though,
because the ECT will just do it

1397
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,400
anyway in the evening.
So that doesn't persuade me such

1398
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,960
a Why else do I want to pay 15
grand more for a teacher?

1399
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,760
They know more.
That's all right.

1400
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,320
We'll just doesn't matter that
much. 15 schemes in.

1401
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:47,960
They're just going to.
Copy Yeah, we change the schemes

1402
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:49,160
every year anyway, so that
doesn't.

1403
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,400
Matter because we don't actually
value the knowledge at all.

1404
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,560
Oh the the experienced staff.
Member in in staff meetings will

1405
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,080
talk out and say, well this
might not work because Oh no we

1406
00:53:58,080 --> 00:53:59,880
don't want them challenging us
we just want.

1407
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:01,640
EC TS that are malleable.
So hang on a minute.

1408
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,160
I think we'll just, I can't see
any drawbacks in only having EC

1409
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:06,880
TS and no experience teachers to
learn from.

1410
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,200
Let's just save money and have
EC TS.

1411
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,960
That's one like really sort of
negative, pessimistic way of

1412
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,480
viewing it, but it does happen.
I I think it's a realistic way

1413
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:14,440
of viewing.
It I think that's what's

1414
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,360
happening.
And again, I'm going to now

1415
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,880
vouch for those amazing leaders
out there who have such a

1416
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,560
headache right now, those
unbelievable leaders who are sat

1417
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,840
there knowing they have to make
people redundant.

1418
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,440
And I don't want to come across
here Willy nilly and say, like,

1419
00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:30,480
oh, yes, people, they're licking
their lips to get rid of those

1420
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,720
experiences.
Pessimistic, by the way, because

1421
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,400
not everyone thinks like that.
I completely agree with you.

1422
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,960
And I'm saying I think what
you're saying is goes through

1423
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,520
the minds of some people.
And it has to.

1424
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,040
Yeah, it has to because they're
thinking it's going to save

1425
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:42,000
money at the end of the day.
Yeah.

1426
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,440
But realistically, for the vast
majority of leaders out there

1427
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,520
who are unbelievable people,
genuinely, they are sick to the

1428
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:49,560
stomach with this.
Yes.

1429
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,560
This is the kind of thing that
keeps heads up at night.

1430
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:53,920
And this is the kind of thing
where heads earn their money.

1431
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,000
And I want to want to back them
up a little bit here and just

1432
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,800
say it's it's easy to sit here
and go, well, yeah, you're the

1433
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,440
one making the redundancies.
Isn't that easy?

1434
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,360
It's horrendous.
You any head teacher working in

1435
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,760
a school has made personal
relationships with all of the

1436
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,200
staff.
And the idea that that head

1437
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,560
would have to make someone
redundant who has a family and a

1438
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,400
mortgage, I wouldn't want to be
in their shoes in a million

1439
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:16,800
years.
So I want to shout out those

1440
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,560
leaders right now who are in
this situation, who couldn't

1441
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,480
think of anything worse, who
have their hands tied for

1442
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,360
funding because it's just from
the top down.

1443
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,600
And they're the people who,
despite being at the top, are

1444
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,600
really in the middle.
They're in the middle of a

1445
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,680
systemic problem in the country,
which we spoke about earlier,

1446
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,560
which then feeds down to the
funding of schools, etcetera.

1447
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,040
And the actual teacher staff
themselves.

1448
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,480
And I, I don't, I, I really
don't resent them at all.

1449
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,040
And I, I think really highly of
them.

1450
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,240
And I want to just, like,
reserve a spot here just to talk

1451
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:49,560
about leaders for just a few
minutes.

1452
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,560
And and how I can't fathom how
we get to just sit here on a

1453
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,240
chair and talk about stuff
sometimes from our soapbox and

1454
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:58,320
our high horse and say this is a
huge problem.

1455
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,560
It's ridiculous.
How could this happen in

1456
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,320
schools?
Do you know what the people on

1457
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,400
the frontline are trying to do
the best they can?

1458
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,400
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
No, I agree.

1459
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,280
And I'm just thinking now like a
back to an alternate reality of

1460
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,880
let's say we weren't, let's say
we weren't leaving, right?

1461
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,240
And our school didn't make.
And we said maybe it was a bit

1462
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:15,960
of a bit of a relief for them
because they're like, Christ,

1463
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,080
OK, that's two less teachers we
have to replace now. 2 fewer

1464
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:19,240
teachers.
Sorry, before you crank me now,

1465
00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:20,920
I was just going to say it, but
you know, you teach podcast.

1466
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,080
You have to get it right.
You live rent free.

1467
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,160
My head when I say the word.
Less or you're a teacher, but I.

1468
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:26,640
Think, OK, you should get it
right, you're going to comment

1469
00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:27,560
on your reel.
You wrote the.

1470
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,120
Word practise with an S instead
of AC.

1471
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,480
Yeah, because S is a verb,
right?

1472
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:32,600
So S is correct when it's a
verb.

1473
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,840
Thank you.
OK, so I.

1474
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,040
Love your little rants.
We need to do more rile up Dylan

1475
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,080
sections.
But yeah, go back to an

1476
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:41,560
alternate reality where we
didn't quit right.

1477
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,600
An affect is with an A of this.
Oh yeah, sorry.

1478
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,920
Please interrupt me honestly.
Honestly, this noun you're a.

1479
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:47,760
Co host now I'm the affect
you're a.

1480
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:48,680
Co host.
I'm the host.

1481
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:50,440
Sorry, I won't affect your
talking anymore.

1482
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,040
Don't affect my talking anymore
because you have to.

1483
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,160
Practise this so imagine we
didn't quit.

1484
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,480
I wouldn't feel how much from I
put into practise like what

1485
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,160
you're just saying.
And I think this is true.

1486
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:04,880
I would not feel angry at my
head teacher if he had to make

1487
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:06,200
me redundant, you know what I
mean?

1488
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,200
Like my anger would not be at
him in any capacity because I

1489
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,640
know, because I know how hard
that decision would be for him.

1490
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,160
I know it wouldn't be personal
and I know it's not his fault.

1491
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:16,640
He doesn't want to do it.
He doesn't want to do it.

1492
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,560
It's not his fault.
So I wouldn't be angry.

1493
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,760
And I think that just proves
that like what you're saying is

1494
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,160
true.
We're not here saying head

1495
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,600
teachers, what are you doing?
No, it's not that at all.

1496
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,360
And I think we summed that up
perfectly before we.

1497
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,760
Were saying this is the right
thing to do in this situation.

1498
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:32,800
Of course schools are gonna have
to close.

1499
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,000
What do we do?
Just prop them open?

1500
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,200
Prop up the spate like with what
we can't paying.

1501
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,120
A teacher to.
To teach, not to each.

1502
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,040
Like, I get it.
I understand it.

1503
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,080
It's just really frustrating
that it's got to this point.

1504
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,520
Yeah, because it's not something
that has just happened

1505
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,640
overnight.
We've known this for a long

1506
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,640
time.
And yeah, I think going back to

1507
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,360
what you just said again, I am.
So how do I put this?

1508
00:57:54,720 --> 00:58:00,960
I feel relief for my school that
me leaving, I was able to

1509
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,160
lighten that load slightly of
the long term picture.

1510
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of Oh my gosh, what we're gonna

1511
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:08,680
do in the next 3-4 five years if
the birth rate continues in this

1512
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:09,640
way.
Yeah, exactly.

1513
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,680
I do like the idea of that not
being a problem and I don't want

1514
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,200
I would rather that than it been
looking bad.

1515
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:18,400
Politicised.
Yeah, yeah.

1516
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,400
Oh, look, there's more vacancies
now because I've left and I'm

1517
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:21,800
part of that statistic.
Isn't that awful?

1518
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,080
No, no, I'd you know, I'd rather
it look a bit better for the

1519
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,080
headline, even if it masks over
the problem, because it means

1520
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,640
the literal people who I really
like and have worked with for a

1521
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,920
decade have an easier.
Ride, Yeah, who aren't in a

1522
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:35,240
position.
Like us, fortunately.

1523
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,800
To be able to make this move
willingly anyway, Yeah.

1524
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,360
Who?
Who like they wouldn't then have

1525
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:40,400
a choice.
They're now.

1526
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,520
There are some people who are
teaching right now.

1527
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,160
Who, if they were made
redundant, would struggle?

1528
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,040
Yeah, of course they would
struggle with most people.

1529
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:48,960
Yeah, because they could go.
Of course they go and get a job.

1530
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,760
But immediately not going to get
a job at the same at the same,

1531
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:53,920
Yeah, same pay as well.
Like not immediately in a long

1532
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:55,000
time.
Maybe you could you could

1533
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:56,880
leverage something and it might
work for some people.

1534
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,520
But immediately wait, you know,
no way.

1535
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,800
And it's your profession.
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's

1536
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:03,720
it.
That's it anyway.

1537
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,560
But yeah, in general, just kind
of culminating everything we've

1538
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:12,040
talked about in terms of this
lower birth rate etcetera.

1539
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,720
Do you think there's anything we
can actually do immediately in

1540
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,680
this situation?
Or is it unfortunately one of

1541
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,000
those times where we always try
and think what the solution

1542
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:23,800
would be?
Is it one of those times where

1543
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,960
we just say, guys, this is going
to happen and we need we what we

1544
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,440
can do is control ourselves and
think about the future?

1545
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:32,200
I think you've kind of already
said it in this.

1546
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:33,840
Podcast, I think it's relatively
simple.

1547
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,720
There are two things
immediately, immigration is the

1548
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:38,880
only answer.
How we can't magic people into

1549
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:40,520
existence, right?
So if we need more people in the

1550
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:41,720
country, it has to be
immigration.

1551
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:43,960
But if we want to improve the
birth rate, which is really what

1552
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,640
we're talking about here, then
it's obviously it takes time and

1553
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:48,800
we need to incentivize it.
And what, how else can we do it?

1554
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,960
How else can we do it right?
Clearly people in the past

1555
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,480
forever basically have wanted to
on average have enough children

1556
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,080
where the birth rate, where the
population was increasing,

1557
00:59:59,080 --> 00:59:59,840
right?
I'm not saying everyone

1558
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,240
individually, I'm just saying as
a population, we've obviously

1559
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,480
had the desire to want to
continue reproducing, right?

1560
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,520
I don't think that desire has
just suddenly disappeared and

1561
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,480
humanity's completely evolved
and changed and that overnight.

1562
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,480
So clearly there are external
factors.

1563
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,840
So what can we do?
Oh, we can maybe help those

1564
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:15,760
external factors by
incentivizing having children

1565
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:17,640
again.
Let's reduce some of the bad

1566
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,600
external factors as a as a
nation, as a world, as the in

1567
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:24,040
the world, you know, whatever.
And I don't know, I don't know

1568
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:25,120
what else we could do.
You know, that's it.

1569
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,240
We just incentivize having
children, tax breaks, whatever,

1570
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,520
make it make it more affordable.
What I would say to anyone in.

1571
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,240
Any job in any walk of life
ever, but I'm going to talk

1572
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,480
directly to teachers now is just
start thinking about how you can

1573
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,880
leverage what you do.
Just start thinking about your

1574
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,600
personal leverage and and just
spreading yourself a bit more

1575
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:44,320
than having all your eggs in one
basket.

1576
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,880
Now I don't want to be the
person sat here on a podcast

1577
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,600
where we do a podcast and have
tutoring and do all these other

1578
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,960
things as well as teaching to
say to someone, why don't you

1579
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,680
just do 4 things?
Why don't you just do 8 things?

1580
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:56,840
Just spread yourself out because
it is not that simple.

1581
01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,840
And I vehemently believe that
you should be able to just be

1582
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:01,880
really good at your one
profession.

1583
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,080
It should sustain you in life.
Unfortunately, that is not what

1584
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,080
is happening right now.
And when you're looking over the

1585
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:12,400
edge of a Cliff of the birth
rate and how we are going to

1586
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,240
have fewer children around and
that will mean that teachers are

1587
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,640
being made redundant, you can't
control that big machine.

1588
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,280
No, something I've learned the
hard way over the last few years

1589
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,360
of education in general, we're
not going to be able to control

1590
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:24,880
that big machine.
So if that is the way it's

1591
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,800
going, and it certainly looks
that way, we have to start

1592
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,200
thinking about what our future
options would be.

1593
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,480
So if you're in that position
right now where you think, oh,

1594
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,000
sorry, I've got two or three
years and before that's the

1595
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,280
problem, start thinking now.
Start thinking about doing some

1596
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,080
tutoring.
If that's what you want to go

1597
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:40,480
down, start thinking about
retraining.

1598
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:45,040
My friend was an estate agent.
He worked so many hours as an

1599
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:46,920
estate agent.
He knew it wasn't what he wanted

1600
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:48,960
to do, but he needed a job.
He worked his way up.

1601
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:50,320
He did amazingly well in that
job.

1602
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,320
Amazing person.
And he he trained in the

1603
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,880
evenings to become a cloud
software engineer.

1604
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:58,880
Yeah.
And do you know what he's got

1605
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:00,240
now?
A job doing that?

1606
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:00,880
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

1607
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:01,840
Less hours.
Yeah.

1608
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:03,600
Few hours.
I don't know.

1609
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:05,000
No, I'm ready.
Few hours.

1610
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:06,960
And yeah, you're getting more
pay.

1611
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,440
Yeah.
More secure job, more future

1612
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,200
proof and enjoys it more and
that's only because he made that

1613
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,200
plunge to do that a couple of
years ago, a couple of years

1614
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:16,520
ago, but it.
Took two years.

1615
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,120
Definitely.
So it's not something you can

1616
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:19,840
say I'll be, I'll just find
something else overnight.

1617
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,600
All I'm saying to you guys is
just start thinking about it

1618
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:24,760
where you can, even if it's one
or two hours a week and it might

1619
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:26,360
not even happen, but have that
backup.

1620
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:27,760
Plan in your head.
Basically, exactly what you

1621
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,240
don't need to do is quote short.
I'd hate for anyone listening to

1622
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:31,600
this to be like, oh, yeah, OK,
that's cool.

1623
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:33,840
Two years down the line, sorry,
you're redundant.

1624
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:35,920
You've got to go and find
another job somewhere.

1625
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,880
You're doing something you hate,
has to pay, struggling to pay

1626
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,080
your mortgage.
Yeah, just.

1627
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:42,920
Get.
In touch if you want some advice

1628
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,000
as well help, but just start
thinking about it for sure.

1629
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:47,840
Thank you for that, Dylan.
Where can they get in touch?

1630
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,680
They can get in touch on
Instagram at Teach, Seek,

1631
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:51,720
Repeat.
Podcast they can e-mail us at

1632
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,960
not at the outcomes later, they
can e-mail

1633
01:02:54,960 --> 01:03:00,000
us.teachseekrepeatpod@gmail.com
and yeah, if you follow us in

1634
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,800
there, send us a message.
We should be able to pick it up.

1635
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,720
And just one thing, if they did
get this far into the episode,

1636
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:07,160
Aiden, yeah, what could they do?
They could leave us a review.

1637
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:09,520
They could, specifically a.
Five star review.

1638
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:10,480
Thank you.
Yeah, absolutely right.

1639
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:11,280
We do.
We do like them.

1640
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:12,600
Once, Yeah, they do really,
really help us.

1641
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:14,600
Jokes aside, and we'd love to
hear from you.

1642
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,040
So if you have any experience of
anything we talked about in

1643
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:18,200
today's episode, do get in
touch.

1644
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,560
Let us know about your potential
redundancies, your school's

1645
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:23,240
squeezing.
And do you know what I want to

1646
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,040
know as well?
Anything you want us to talk

1647
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:26,520
about in the future?
So if you have any ideas for

1648
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,520
episode, I'd love receiving
messages from you guys.

1649
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,040
We've got a whole bunch and
we'll talk through some of those

1650
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:32,680
messages I think, next week as
well.

1651
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:34,200
Brilliant.
See you next time.

1652
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:34,760
Bye, guys.