Ep 157: Q&A - Endless Pointless Data, Disgraceful TA Pay & Teacher Tired Stories!

1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,320
Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Tea Sleep

2
00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:03,240
Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

3
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:04,800
And my name's Hayden.
And we're back with another

4
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:10,160
question and answer episode.
Hayden, I've got my tea.

5
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,480
My third you think?
3 teas in your life. 4 went golf

6
00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,320
the other day, had a cup of tea
whilst I was going.

7
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:18,760
Round Classic.
Warm me up.

8
00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:20,360
Yeah, that is the kind of thing
to have when you play.

9
00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:21,320
Golf.
It is, genuinely.

10
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:22,560
Is it?
Yeah, surely not.

11
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,280
You don't talk to me about doing
sports.

12
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:25,920
Thanks.
You're having a flask.

13
00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:29,800
No, it was in like a little, you
know, just a take out cup you

14
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,600
know from the cafe.
I was like can I have a cup of

15
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,280
tea please, £1.90 for a tea is
that, is that all?

16
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:35,120
I don't know.
I don't.

17
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:36,520
I don't drink tea.
You drink tea now, mate.

18
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,280
I'm a tea.
Drinker, drinker.

19
00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,560
Anyway, Hayden, can you tell
these lovely people where they

20
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,560
can send us questions in?
They can send questions in the

21
00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,040
WhatsApp community.
Guys please do join.

22
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:45,760
It is getting funnier every
single day.

23
00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,520
I was saying to Dylan earlier,
the WhatsApp community cracks me

24
00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,320
up on a daily basis.
So do join in.

25
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,760
Come and submit your questions
or just join in with the banter.

26
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,160
So what?
The way it works, people who

27
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,480
aren't sure is you can join and
simply just get announcements.

28
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,880
You don't join any groups where
people actually send messages.

29
00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,680
If you don't, if you're not that
way inclined, if you don't want

30
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:01,960
those messages reminder people,
that's fine.

31
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,480
But and you can just get
announcements from those links,

32
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,640
etcetera.
Being able to submit your

33
00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,520
questions for Google forms or
you can literally join our

34
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,800
discussion group, which
honestly, I just pick up my

35
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:14,400
phone in the evening.
It absolutely cracks me up.

36
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,600
It's nice to have you in there
if you want to join down below,

37
00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:18,920
but I think we should get
started.

38
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,120
Let's do it.
First question, is it normal to

39
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,000
be expected to use assessment
tracking for every single

40
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,080
statement taught every week and
grade every single child?

41
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,600
I'm getting a vibe already.
I'm an ECT that's an early

42
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,840
careers teacher at the start of
their career and know no

43
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,080
different but this seems
excessive no?

44
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,920
The school bangs on about
well-being but does stuff like

45
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,800
this.
They even said what would we do

46
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,240
if you suddenly died?
The data.

47
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,640
The data would only be in your
head.

48
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,000
Oh my.
God, I'm sorry.

49
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,040
I know you're trying to read a
question, but I just, I can't.

50
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,120
I can't deal with this.
There's so many things.

51
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:55,600
So I'm packing this.
I don't know where to start.

52
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,600
I know I'm like what?
OK, firstly, if you've been

53
00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,600
listening a long time, you know
I'll die on this hill.

54
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,920
Assessments for the afternoon
subjects for a start.

55
00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,680
I know this is every single
statement of everything ever but

56
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,280
the afternoon subjects It's not
needed.

57
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,360
You're it's not needed.
You really die in the hill of at

58
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:14,920
all, don't you?
I find this fascinating.

59
00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:16,680
So pointless.
It's so pointless.

60
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,560
But like something.
OK, look, all right, there's.

61
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,040
Because I point you just missed
every statement thing.

62
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,640
Yeah, I think the fact is every
statement is the problem.

63
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,400
But you you just think.
Yeah.

64
00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,600
Do you know what?
Look, I did, I have a problem

65
00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,320
when I worked in a school where
it was like, at the end of the

66
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,800
term, just literally spend 5
seconds per kid just saying

67
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:36,920
roughly where they are in that
subject.

68
00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:38,480
I didn't mind that.
That was all right.

69
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,400
That to me, is that normal?
I'm like, OK, yeah.

70
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:41,680
They're not very good at
geography.

71
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,160
Still felt like a bit of a
waste.

72
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,960
Yeah, still, because I was like,
it still ultimately went nowhere

73
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,120
and didn't impact the next unit
of planning that we did on

74
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,000
something completely different
topic or not, the next teacher

75
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,600
next year doesn't go, oh, I must
dig out those geography

76
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,080
assessments from last year, Just
check where these kids are at

77
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,320
before I start teaching them.
Mountains.

78
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,320
Sorry, what do you mean the
children's ability to understand

79
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,280
how rivers are formed doesn't
affect their human geography in

80
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,640
the north of England?
In in my head a little bit that

81
00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:07,720
you gonna mention rivers within
the.

82
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,600
Next 10 seconds.
I just asked so that's my first

83
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:11,480
thing.
So firstly.

84
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,120
Yeah, let's ask the question
first, then we'll address the

85
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,800
elephant in the room of the
toxic SKT.

86
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,200
OK, Is it normal to be expected?
Honestly, yeah.

87
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,000
That's the annoying thing about
this job.

88
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,320
Do you think it's, do you think
it's widespread?

89
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,120
I think so, yeah.
And that's why I have such a

90
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,880
problem with it.
I'm sure there are some sane

91
00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,680
schools out there that they look
at that and think, oh, do I need

92
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,480
my teachers completely wasting
their time every day doing all

93
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:31,880
this?
We didn't in our in our last

94
00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,280
school really did.
True, we didn't.

95
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,880
And if we were meant to, I
certainly didn't.

96
00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,320
Which is more likely the case?
More likely the case, but I just

97
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,480
know purely from the amount of
people we speak to through this

98
00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,080
podcast that this isn't the
first time I've heard someone

99
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,160
mention some mental assessment
scheme where it's like, I always

100
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,160
think back to our hexagon policy
where I have to fill in.

101
00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,640
There's just always something
someone sends me a picture being

102
00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,440
like, oh, is this how you do
your, your red, your red, amber,

103
00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,800
green assessments with the gold
and the blue at the end?

104
00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,480
And you have to do it for each
tiny objective and each day of

105
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:00,720
every single lesson of every
week.

106
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,640
I'm like, no.
For every individual child mind.

107
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:03,680
For every.
Yeah, it's just.

108
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,080
Yeah, but then I, I used to find
it funny when when someone in

109
00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,840
leadership, instead of like, you
know, just listening to their

110
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,600
staff say #1 we don't use this.
Yeah #2 it's wasting time.

111
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:16,680
Like it's only for us and we
don't use it.

112
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,560
So can we stop?
Instead of being like, you know,

113
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,560
let's think about that.
Their reply was always, that's

114
00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:22,640
all right.
You can just select all the

115
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,440
pupils and put expected.
Just put a couple up and a

116
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,320
couple down.
Pointless then.

117
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,600
Yeah, why?
Pointless then, because I used

118
00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,560
to do that and I promised you it
was wrong.

119
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,880
Like if you actually were to
look at it and dig deep, it was

120
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,640
wrong.
I spent my whole career never

121
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,320
doing it properly.
Nothing ever changed.

122
00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,360
It didn't matter if it was right
or wrong.

123
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,280
I couldn't tell you whether I
put someone as green or blue or

124
00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:45,000
gold or bloody amber.
I don't, Madam Mayor.

125
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,600
My next lesson was my next
lesson.

126
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,240
I just supported them in the
classroom.

127
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,680
And if they didn't quite grasp
it, we just tried again next

128
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,080
time.
Can I expose myself a little bit

129
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,440
here?
I'm not in teaching anymore so I

130
00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:55,440
can do it.
So I can do it.

131
00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:59,920
This is this is not safe for
what we do.

132
00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:02,960
Film this podcast, Hayden, just
to remind you something I did.

133
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,080
I'm just fine.
I can say it now.

134
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,640
And you know what?
I'm not even an advocate of

135
00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:06,720
this.
I do actually think that you

136
00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,920
should just follow your school's
policies and then and then use

137
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,320
it as evidence to say, look,
this didn't work.

138
00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:11,520
I did it properly, but it didn't
work.

139
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,960
But me being stubborn and an old
fool, right?

140
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,080
There was one year where I just
thought, Nah, screw the system.

141
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:22,040
And with one of my afternoon
subject assessment sheets, I

142
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,600
just thought, I wonder if I can
just not do it all year.

143
00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,400
And I will just genuinely,
because it goes nowhere and I

144
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,120
knew it didn't go anywhere.
So I thought I'll prove a point.

145
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:30,880
And I just did exactly what you
did.

146
00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:35,520
I put them everyone expected and
just press random buttons in

147
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,560
terms of making it look
different because I just wanted

148
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,200
to test whether they would say,
oh, that doesn't make sense.

149
00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,200
Oh, you put this child as great.
They've got evidence.

150
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:43,760
No one cared.
No one looked at it, no one

151
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,920
challenged, no one questioned.
It went in the bin at the end of

152
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,000
the year.
It's completely pointless, bad

153
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,520
practise, terrible.
I don't actually recommend doing

154
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:51,320
that.
That's awful.

155
00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,440
Yeah, but the option should be
to just not do it then.

156
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,880
Exactly, that was my point.
I spent more of my time when I

157
00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,400
was filling out this kind of
stuff like the rag sheets and

158
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,600
stuff for like individual
pointless things.

159
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,640
I spent more of my time
thinking, does this look OK?

160
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,080
Yeah.
Does this look like an

161
00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,120
acceptable she for a class?
Is there is there enough greater

162
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:09,560
depth?
I'm going to put a few more

163
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:10,920
working towards Andy.
Have greater depth.

164
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,600
Obviously I'm modest.
I'm modest.

165
00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:13,520
We're not all greater depth
here.

166
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,440
I spent more time thinking what
looked decent and then bumping

167
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,120
people up to greater depth
because I needed a three.

168
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,960
I needed three or four of them,
didn't I in my class?

169
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:21,840
Complete waste of time, complete
nonsense.

170
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:23,720
This was actually from our
WhatsApp group.

171
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,760
It was someone just putting out
there like, is this normal?

172
00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:29,920
And someone replied who changed
career from a data hungry

173
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:31,920
industry, so knows about this
kind of thing.

174
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,040
And he was just saying how he
finds it astonishing how this is

175
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,960
so widespread in schools.
And he said he used this phrase

176
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,080
and I thought, yeah, it's
perfect.

177
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,480
The casual use of pointless
data.

178
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,200
Yes, school is full of pointless
data.

179
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,400
And unfortunately, and this is
not a rib on the people who work

180
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,040
in a school, you're not trained
in really understanding data and

181
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,400
really being able to scrutinise
to see if the use of the data is

182
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,000
good or bad.
All we get in schools a lot of

183
00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,880
the time is simply just we need
data.

184
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,680
Yeah.
So the actual quality of it,

185
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,960
what it's being used for,
whether it's even useful to have

186
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,000
in the 1st place becomes
redundant because all really

187
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,400
leadership end up caring about a
lot of the time is does it

188
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:10,760
exist?
Does it exist?

189
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,240
Yeah, Yeah.
But I don't use it in the

190
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:13,760
future.
Don't care that that part of

191
00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:15,840
it's irrelevant to me.
That part of this data is

192
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,920
pointless.
That's all data should be.

193
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,760
You should only be collecting
data for the purpose of using it

194
00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,920
for good in the future, not
simply to say, well, it exists.

195
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,160
That's good, isn't it?
Yeah, I'm going to throw this

196
00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,560
over to you though the second
part of this what if, sorry,

197
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,840
they question this person said
their school questioned.

198
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,480
Well, what have you suddenly
died.

199
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,880
The data would only be in your
head, would it go and talk to

200
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,920
the kids.
They I I can't believe that.

201
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:42,920
I can't believe the idea that
that's true.

202
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,400
The data like as if like the
data this import this crazy

203
00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,040
information that only the
teacher over a huge amount of

204
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,160
time could possibly have grasped
like, yeah, OK, it is useful

205
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,040
information.
The teacher has a fantastic

206
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,040
insight, but it's not something
that that SLT can't come in and

207
00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,080
also work out or should already
even know just by being in the

208
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,600
school or another teacher could
grasp like I'm sorry, but in

209
00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,120
that extreme situation, what if
you suddenly died?

210
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,240
Okay, firstly, I'm dead.
That's horrendous.

211
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,120
Like this is this is this is a
very, very, very extreme.

212
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,720
Let's not skip over this time.
Political.

213
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,360
Yeah.
Can we not ignore the fact that

214
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,200
I'm dead in this?
Sorry, actually, because I don't

215
00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:17,480
really care at that point
because I'm dead.

216
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,040
But it's like this is, it's such
an extreme example.

217
00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:22,960
Do you know what I mean?
Where I'm like, I think in that

218
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,520
example, which doesn't happen
very often, I will say in

219
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,160
teaching, we should probably
just get another teacher in and

220
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,240
and pick up the pieces and start
working from there and not worry

221
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,080
too much about the data that was
in my head that I didn't write

222
00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:34,760
down about their geography.
We can go over it.

223
00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,480
Yeah, we would get.
I think we'll skip the fact that

224
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,320
geography has got a hole in it
and focus on the fact one of our

225
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:41,640
colleagues has passed on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

226
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,400
It's insane.
Maybe that data should be.

227
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,640
To me, data is a representation
of the truth, right.

228
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,600
So the proof exists.
The thing already happens, it's

229
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,520
there, right?
So, for example, whether a child

230
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,520
grasps an understanding of a
statement that you've taught

231
00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,960
them in the afternoon lessons,
that either exists or it

232
00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:02,040
doesn't.
The fact that the data on a

233
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,040
spreadsheet in a cloud system
exists or not doesn't change the

234
00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,080
fact that that's true or not.
Exactly.

235
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,280
So you could have no data at
all.

236
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,600
You could have data that you've
just fluffed and made-up.

237
00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,480
You could have really intense
data that you've really looked

238
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,720
at the books for and interviewed
the child and spent hours and

239
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,640
hours doing.
That's as representative as

240
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,760
possible of the truth.
All of those situations don't

241
00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,840
change the fact that the kid
either understands it or

242
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:25,560
doesn't.
Yeah.

243
00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:27,760
And then you could walk into the
classroom tomorrow and say, hey,

244
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,200
kid, how's a river formed?
What are the three parts of a

245
00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,000
river?
And they'll be able to tell me

246
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,040
they wouldn't suddenly go.
Sorry, sorry, Sir.

247
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,280
I think I know, but but the
teacher didn't put it all the

248
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,920
rags is machines.
Yeah, yeah.

249
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,440
It's.
Complete nonsense back the kid.

250
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:44,840
There's such a funny disconnect
isn't it?

251
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,200
Like yeah it's so true.
Also just just for a bit of

252
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,800
clarity, Dylan only ever taught
rivers at school so his his

253
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,800
class is new.
Absolutely bloody everything

254
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,760
about rivers, every single week
of every term.

255
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,440
Didn't write down though.
Didn't write it down.

256
00:09:58,720 --> 00:09:59,920
So we don't know if they
actually learned.

257
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:01,560
It or not, I don't know why what
this is.

258
00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:02,880
This is an interesting question
to put out.

259
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,000
Maybe we'll put it if you're
listening on Spotify, go down in

260
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,840
the comments right now and just
put, if someone was to ask you

261
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,800
to think of an afternoon topic,
what comes to your mind straight

262
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,840
away?
Because to me it's just rivers.

263
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,600
If you say give me a give me a
primary school afternoon topic,

264
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,120
rivers, It's it's there.
I don't know why.

265
00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:22,360
Maybe it's because I remember
when I first started training to

266
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,280
be a primary school teacher.
No, no.

267
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,480
You were in a river getting
thought it was pretty weird.

268
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:27,640
It was.
I went to a school, but it's

269
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:28,520
weird.
It was a school of fish.

270
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,000
It was actually a school.
I got the wrong memo.

271
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:36,080
Went to see a school of fish and
ever since then I thought I need

272
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,240
to know about rivers.
But when when I was training, I

273
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,200
was in a year six class and they
were doing rivers and there's

274
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,800
this big display about all the
different vocabulary words.

275
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,080
And I just remember thinking to
myself, they need to know that

276
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,760
because I don't like I'm trained
to become a teacher and I seem

277
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,640
they seem to think I'm capable
of doing that job.

278
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,960
I don't know how tributary is
really like I still right now I

279
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:56,480
couldn't with all confidence,
honestly.

280
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:57,920
You say to you right now, what a
tributary.

281
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,240
But there's there's so many
things and stuff like that where

282
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,960
I'm like, I learn it, I cram it
from the topic and then I

283
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,920
genuinely forget it for the next
year because it's so.

284
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,680
Pointless.
I don't think they'd like, I

285
00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:10,440
think the teacher not knowing
something on the top of their

286
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,240
head automatically makes
something pointless for the kids

287
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,240
to land.
I don't think so.

288
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,080
But but I did just think to
myself like we're putting a lot

289
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,560
of emphasis on rivers.
It seems like a huge part of the

290
00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:20,320
curriculum.
So anyway, it's just stuck with

291
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:21,960
me.
But yeah, I've always been

292
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,720
interested in your thoughts on
assessment like that.

293
00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:27,520
I don't think we ever did it
properly.

294
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,800
Our practise was quite good.
You know, I've got to say it for

295
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,440
ourselves right now.
We were quite good teachers.

296
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,320
Our kids made progress.
They did well things.

297
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:35,160
Yeah, exactly.
I never did.

298
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:36,880
I never took it seriously.
The fact that you know what,

299
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,640
this summarises it for me
because I was at ACT.

300
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,200
The fact that an ECT straight
away like within the first year

301
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:43,960
where you'd think if this data
was ever going to be used.

302
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,920
Second year ECT.
Second year, sorry, but in fact

303
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,240
this data was ever going to be
useful.

304
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,000
It's going to hope, surely it's
going to be for those people

305
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,840
that are still training, right?
The fact that new teachers are

306
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:53,720
coming in and being like this
seems a bit excessive and

307
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:54,640
pointless.
Yeah, it is.

308
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,040
Because it is.
You've already it's taken you

309
00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,000
one year or two years to realise
that you don't need this in any

310
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,480
way.
And I tell you what, the

311
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,680
experienced teachers don't need
it even more because they,

312
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,280
they've done this for another
eight years.

313
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,160
They're no one needs this data.
Oh.

314
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,400
Oh, oh, sorry, what have you
died?

315
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,520
Oh wow, that's it then, then
then the kids progress goes down

316
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,280
the pan.
No one could possibly pick it

317
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,760
up.
It's almost as if like starting

318
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,800
a new year with with your class,
as if like you know you have to

319
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,760
learn them and and a new teacher
coming in would have to figure

320
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,320
out what they can and can't do
do.

321
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,080
You know when you kill the head,
like when you kill Dracula, all

322
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,480
the vampires, when the teacher
goes nothing, all the all the

323
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:31,360
day progress.
Yeah.

324
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,760
Just melts.
All right, next question.

325
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,480
Good question.
Shall we a bit of respite that

326
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,320
was meant to be a serious one.
Let's see how this one goes.

327
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,680
What's the most unhinged thing
you've done while exhausted

328
00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:46,920
during turn time brackets other
than record a podcast days after

329
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,000
having a child?
Firstly, that is the funniest

330
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,600
thing you've ever done in your
whole life.

331
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,040
That podcast, I got to say from
your listeners, we always point

332
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,160
them back to it, but it's, I
still get messages about it.

333
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,160
Yeah, like I still get people
say, oh, but that episode.

334
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,960
But you hadn't slept for like 3
days and then we recorded for

335
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,640
some reason.
No, because what?

336
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,280
I'll tell you why it was, it was
like 2 weeks after war was born.

337
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,360
We recorded it 10 days to two to
two weeks.

338
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,600
And the reason was I just needed
two hours to do something.

339
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,040
I just needed to go into your
house.

340
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,520
I need to leave the house for
just because it had been such a

341
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,800
slog.
No sleep, completely unhinged.

342
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,320
You you started this one then
what's the most unhinged thing

343
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,160
you've done whilst exhausted
during time?

344
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,720
I remember when I started my new
school, so I got a new job

345
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,480
somewhere else.
Within the first couple of a

346
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,240
couple of weeks I was just
completely knackered.

347
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,360
You know, it's like at the start
of the term, yeah, I left my

348
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:35,840
house and I drove to my old
school.

349
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,480
Hasn't it didn't work anymore?
The one where I didn't work

350
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,960
anymore and I got all the way to
the gate and I was like, oh, I

351
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,120
don't work working so funny.
So to drive to the other side of

352
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,360
town, OK, that that is the
ultimate.

353
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,600
Just went into autopilot.
Wasn't thinking about anything,

354
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,000
not even like I didn't even get
halfway and go, this is this is

355
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,080
odd.
This is where I've been going.

356
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,360
Yeah, yeah, I went all the way
to the school game and I had to

357
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,000
just keep driving.
I tell you what, that is a thing

358
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,400
though, isn't it?
When you're driving in general,

359
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,360
when going into autopilot?
I've done it a lot of times

360
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,400
where I'm driving in a
particular direction that I

361
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,880
where I go to somewhere a lot,
but I'm going somewhere else and

362
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:11,640
I accidentally drive to the
place I go to a lot.

363
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,920
It happens all the time.
MY1 funny off again to mine is

364
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,240
also of the same autopilot ilk.
So it was in the morning.

365
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,480
The morning routine is also the
same, isn't it, that you just

366
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,560
get up, you're tired as
anything, you just do what you

367
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,560
need to do, get to school.
And I drove my way to school and

368
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,720
as I was walking through I the
gates, I was like, Oh, this was

369
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,520
comfy.
I realised I had my trainers on.

370
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,160
I just, I first I didn't put my
school shoes on.

371
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:33,680
I just put my trainers on for a
reason.

372
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,960
I got all the way to school and
I was like, I can't teach in my

373
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,000
trainers.
So I drove home.

374
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,120
To my shoes.
I can't because it looks so

375
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,720
stupid.
I couldn't be bothered.

376
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,360
I wouldn't be.
I care because I purely right.

377
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,160
This is myself perspective.
I couldn't be bothered with

378
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:48,600
everyone being like, oh, where
are you trainers today?

379
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,520
Oh God.
Oh yeah, for the fifth time I've

380
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,680
heard that.
I was like, I can't I?

381
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,840
Can't possibly wear trainers.
I wear my old battered 66 year

382
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,680
old brown shoes that I've wore
for my whole career.

383
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,440
I said I should have taken them
off and just gone barefoot.

384
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,720
You imagine that in class What I
thought.

385
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,280
You were going to say you're
feeling comfortable, you're

386
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,080
watching naked.
That's no, just in my dreams

387
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,080
that happens when you walk in.
I'm not wearing trousers or

388
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,280
something.
Hate those dreams.

389
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,600
I remember 1 where I I was, I
was teaching.

390
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,840
This is more recent, much more
recent, which makes it more

391
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,200
embarrassing really.
I got halfway through a maths

392
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,760
lesson and I realised that it
was the lesson I taught

393
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,040
yesterday.
You already thought it.

394
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,880
I, I personally, I taught it the
day before I got halfway through

395
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:34,440
and I went, oh, the kids must
say anything.

396
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,320
Yes, but but like only then when
I realised they're like, this is

397
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,560
easy, Sir.
I was like, you do really well

398
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,480
done this.
I think that we did this one of

399
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,360
the kids, we did this yesterday
and I was like no.

400
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,800
And then I looked, I checked
that it's the exact same thing.

401
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,560
I printed the worksheets.
I can't believe you didn't know.

402
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:51,960
It's like even at the printing
stage.

403
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,600
I can't remember what it was,
but it was.

404
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,520
That's so funny.
Clearly something where we did a

405
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,920
progression and my progression
was do the same thing again.

406
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:05,760
So I owned it and I was like, we
just recapping yesterday.

407
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Recapping, recapping.

408
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,600
With the same slides Sir, same
size, got recap, same worksheet

409
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,080
in my book.
Recap, recap, recap.

410
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,120
Big part of fluency.
I got more right yesterday.

411
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:16,200
Recap.
Do it again.

412
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:17,640
Do it again love.
But it was yesterday.

413
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,280
I remember the answers.
Been a new day, new day, new

414
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:22,680
you.
And I'll tell you what, if

415
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,240
you're not careful, I won't
write it down.

416
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,440
Then it won't exist.
You won't know it, will you?

417
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:28,960
Oh, that's mad.
I've again similar 1.

418
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,480
You just reminded me of things
that I've done.

419
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,520
So one time I thought it was
term 5 and it was term 4 and I

420
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,960
thought I know I was in your sex
as well, and I thought an

421
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,080
afternoon topic for two weeks,
two weeks from term 5.

422
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,000
But I was in term. 4 So I kind
of got the end of the unit.

423
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,800
My job share actually was like
confused because she was about

424
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,360
to move on to the next thing.
She's like, where have have you

425
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:50,360
done?
Have you done this?

426
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:51,640
The history?
And I was like, yeah, yeah, I've

427
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:52,120
done it.
I've done it.

428
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:53,600
She was like, you've taught this
one.

429
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,520
It was I was completely a term
off.

430
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,520
I literally thought it was a
different term for two weeks.

431
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,080
Like oh just lost it.
Completely lost it.

432
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,960
Oh, just goes to show how really
important the order is.

433
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:06,880
Of teacher.
Yeah, it really.

434
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,040
Did How on earth could we cut?
There's been loads of unhinged

435
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,720
things.
I think teacher tired.

436
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,359
There's a reason why that's a
meme that grows because it's a

437
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,520
thing.
Let us know your stories of when

438
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,160
you've been back and maybe they
could join the WhatsApp group

439
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,280
and let's tell us that.
And whilst they're here, why

440
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,400
don't they give us a review?
Oh yes, because I see I always

441
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,240
say this.
How many of you listen and how

442
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,400
many reviews we've got?
They're not quite close.

443
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,040
Doesn't match up.
Doesn't actually.

444
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,360
So you're listening right now
thinking that's me.

445
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:33,840
Well, go and do a review then.
Thank you.

446
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,600
Pipe starts preferably.
Preferably, definitely.

447
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,360
OK next question, any tips on
how to use your time wisely to

448
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,400
support children when you do not
have a teaching assistant?

449
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,560
I have 33 children with lots of
needs and abilities in my room.

450
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,520
I'm finding it impossible.
There are always multiple hands

451
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,400
up during independent work.
They are a very very needy

452
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,520
cohort anyway.
But I don't know how to

453
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,920
effectively support all of them
during lessons and activities,

454
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:01,720
especially in maths, English,
reading etcetera.

455
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:03,840
So if you have any advice that
would be great.

456
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,640
What would you do?
Thanks in advance.

457
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,520
Love listening to your podcast,
it gets me motivated, ready and

458
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:09,600
smiling before.
Wow.

459
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,640
That's so nice.
Just before you're ground down

460
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,880
by the system.
No support.

461
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,440
Yeah, I feel like I think,
again, I should go back to you

462
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,360
for this one because I know, I
know that you spent most of your

463
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:23,760
career not with the TA and
actually, I don't know if it's

464
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,880
controversial, kind of preferred
to have a class by yourself.

465
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:28,720
It's true.
It is kind of controversial when

466
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:29,960
you say it, but I'm going to
give context.

467
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:32,720
Yeah.
The reason why I tend to prefer

468
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,640
being on my own in the classroom
is because I'm quite bad at

469
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,720
managing like the I'm quite bad
at managing my teaching

470
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,520
assistant in the lesson, right?
And I know that that's a, you

471
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,000
know, I think a big part of
teaching is understanding the 17

472
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,400
things you've got to be good at
and you're going to be stronger

473
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,480
at other stuff, right.
And one of my weak points is

474
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,480
definitely that like, I love
having a teaching assistant.

475
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,680
Some of my favourite colleagues
in the world have been my

476
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,000
teaching assistants who've
helped me.

477
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,320
They've done so much for me.
They're amazing with the kids

478
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,760
and the kids get a much better
deal with a teaching assistant.

479
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:02,960
So I'd always choose to have a
teaching assistant to get me

480
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,120
wrong.
And I'd just go over it and I'd,

481
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,320
I'd understand that I need to
get better managing, etcetera,

482
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,760
etcetera.
But all I mean is that when I

483
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,480
didn't have a teaching
assistant, at least I knew I

484
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,920
didn't have the support, right?
That's what I'm saying.

485
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,120
Like at least I could kind of
get used to that and I could try

486
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:18,160
and put things in place to help.
And I guess this is where this

487
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,520
person's coming from.
The first thing I'd say is this,

488
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,200
without a teaching assistant,
the children get less.

489
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,400
That is the end of it.
Like don't, don't be, don't be

490
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,160
like put into this false sense
of like, well, Dylan said he

491
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:31,560
preferred it without teaching
assistant.

492
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,080
Of course.
No, I'm talking about like, it's

493
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,960
my strengths and my weaknesses.
I'd always, always pick to have

494
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,360
that support in the class.
So my first bit of advice is

495
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:42,360
something I just want everyone
out there to understand who's

496
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,080
maybe thinking God I've got a
full class mixed ability, no

497
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,480
support whatsoever.
It is literally impossible to

498
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,280
support every single child in
that situation and it is not

499
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,560
down to you personally.
No, it makes sense because I've

500
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,600
always why would TA exist?
I know it sounds silly, but like

501
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,320
of course of course TAS bring
value to the classroom Exactly.

502
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,800
So without them, by definition,
if you compare your class to,

503
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,520
you know, you having no TA
versus you having ATA, it's not

504
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,800
your.
You cannot physically reach the

505
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,480
same bar.
No, it's, it's impossible.

506
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,880
And this is when people, lovely
people like this who send this

507
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,120
question and they say I'm
feeling like I'm I can't support

508
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:19,120
the children.
What do I do?

509
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,320
I'm with you.
I felt like that consistent in

510
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:26,040
my career and the only way I
could ever get rid of that was

511
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,440
to accept and understand that I
could not support all of those

512
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,720
children all the time.
My lesson, it's horrible.

513
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,520
It's I, I talked about this a
million times before we left

514
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,080
the, the profession that that
was the biggest thing actually

515
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,800
driving me out.
You can't say that, Dylan.

516
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,640
You can't say that you have to
at least pretend that you are

517
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,640
doing the same amount as if you
had five TAS in your classroom

518
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:46,840
when it's just you.
You have to.

519
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,280
It's rubbish, it's rubbish.
Huge class sizes, more need than

520
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,600
ever.
It's impossible.

521
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,720
Like like they say in this
question, six hands up at once.

522
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,480
Mixed ability class.
I can't support everyone.

523
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,400
No, you can't.
I remember I had a class and I

524
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,440
had five children had autism
diagnosis in my class, OK.

525
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,760
And I, I've talked about this a
lot in terms of autism, autism,

526
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,520
it's, it's very different per
child and the needs of the child

527
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,000
is, is different each time,
etcetera.

528
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,000
And I had a child who didn't
like loud, loud noises.

529
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,280
I had a child who couldn't
control themselves in terms of

530
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,480
their, you know, their, they've
got to allow steam and they,

531
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,560
they just got overwhelmed and
excited and stemmed and, and did

532
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,400
sounds and noises instantly.
Those two very incompatible.

533
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:27,440
Yeah.
Instantly.

534
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,880
Like I could, I couldn't, I'd
like it was just incompatible

535
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,360
like off the bat.
Yeah, right.

536
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:33,520
So I had to just do the best I
could.

537
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,920
I had another child who just
struggled socially.

538
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,200
I had another child who had
autism but really didn't need

539
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,160
much change at all in the
classroom, had different,

540
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,840
different needs, etcetera, maybe
more social anxiety, etcetera,

541
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,080
like that.
And then I had a child join my

542
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:47,440
classroom who didn't speak any
English.

543
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,920
I remember this.
And they joined me halfway

544
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,360
through the year and again, come
in.

545
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:54,160
I want to help every child
single child like.

546
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,080
This is life.
This is what happens.

547
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,600
But we cannot pretend that in
that situation, with no

548
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,680
additional help.
I've now got a child in my class

549
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,720
who does not speak English.
How do How do I do?

550
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:07,320
If I didn't sit with this child
and help them, they would do

551
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,720
nothing which meant I couldn't
be with 32 other children, never

552
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,800
mind the bulk of the class who
maybe don't have an additional

553
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,760
need who also never were getting
my one to one time in the class.

554
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,920
So my point here is just I
wasn't a bad teacher because of

555
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,520
it.
I was a human being living in

556
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,040
the physical constraints of this
world.

557
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,000
Like I physically couldn't do it
and that's what I want to get

558
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,640
across to them.
Like do what you can but but

559
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,560
accept that you can't do
everything.

560
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,600
And if SLT are down your throat
about it, tell them to get to

561
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,240
get get lost.
Basically.

562
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,240
What do you want me to do so we
can go into some actual tips in

563
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,400
a minute?
But does that make sense?

564
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,920
No, definitely.
I think, I think the context of

565
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,040
that is genuinely really
important because half the

566
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,280
teachers, I think listening
would just feel like they're a

567
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,480
failure because they can't do
all those things.

568
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,680
No, no, not because it's not
your, it's actually not your

569
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,200
fault remotely.
So in that, in that situation,

570
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,080
that's, I've heard lots of
advice.

571
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,720
I want to kind of get your
thoughts on this because I

572
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,560
remember one time this really
sticks in my head.

573
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,560
I, I, I think seating plans are
really vital, by the way, in

574
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,200
terms of like optimising where
you sit children so you can at

575
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,800
least try to help them the best
you possibly can.

576
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,000
You know, maybe, maybe sticking
your six lowest stability

577
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,160
children at the furthest
possible points on the backs,

578
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,960
backs of each table.
It's maybe not that optimised

579
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:15,920
because it's harder to get to
them.

580
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,400
You know, they're going to need
more support for sure, little

581
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,720
things like that.
But I remember having a

582
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,280
conversation with someone once
and we were talking about when

583
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,720
you don't have ATA, do you?
Let's say you have, I'll just

584
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,640
take the classic like 6.
You've got your six lowest

585
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,360
stability children, right?
Or the children that have the

586
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:29,960
most need, maybe including your,
the child that you know, doesn't

587
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,680
speak the language.
Do you sit them on one table?

588
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,760
Do you put them together?
And the argument for that was

589
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,760
they said, yeah, do that because
then when everyone gets started

590
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,640
on the task, you can go over
that table, you can help all six

591
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,280
at once.
And then someone said that's not

592
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,880
good because when you're not
there, they've got no one around

593
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,600
and there's no peer support in
in any way because they're all

594
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,160
equally liability.
They just can't help each other.

595
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,480
I was like, OK, that's
interesting.

596
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,520
And then that same person said
to me, what you should do is

597
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,600
kind of dot them around the
classroom and pair them up with

598
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,680
children who are really, really
like independent and canned who

599
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,320
have fantastic peer supports,
essentially.

600
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,640
Like those kids that are just
naturally teachers, you know,

601
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,400
they really like helping just
sit them with those children in

602
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,640
pairs.
So they've always got someone

603
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,400
right next to them.
And then but then the other

604
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,320
person said, yeah, but then
you've got to help them

605
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,560
individually when you go around.
And someone said it then hinders

606
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,840
the the other child who was, you
know, maybe working at that

607
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,840
higher ability because they're
now they're now being spending a

608
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,840
lot of their time helping other
child and they're not maximising

609
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,240
their well.
You just have the conversation.

610
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,120
Hypothetically, but but at that
point I was like, OK, what do I

611
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:26,560
do?
Then I was like, I don't know

612
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,120
what, what's the optimum then
like do you, do you have a, is

613
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:30,440
it down to preference at that
point?

614
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,560
What did you do?
Both all the time.

615
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:35,520
Just be malleable.
Just be malleable and, and

616
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,080
respond to your your strengths
as well.

617
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,840
What I always say to people is
there are certain tasks that

618
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,480
really lend themselves to having
a support table.

619
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,280
Yeah, there are certain parts of
my lesson.

620
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,160
I thought actually at this
point, I, I physically need to

621
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,280
be with these children to
explain this tricky concept

622
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,080
myself and be in control of what
they're doing.

623
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,920
But also I would say if you, you
know, let's say you, we just

624
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,760
take this idea of six children
in the class being on your

625
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,440
support table.
Always in my experience, there

626
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,080
were one or two children who
were who needed far more support

627
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,080
than anyone even within then
six.

628
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,800
Do you know what?
I would often have children

629
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,240
spread out who I think could
handle it.

630
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,280
And I think you, you, you need
some support, but that support

631
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,440
can come from your peers.
But again, like you said, it's a

632
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,800
balancing act because that you
can always think of every single

633
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,320
year, I can think of three or
four children in my classes who

634
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,240
were, who you might go to for
that role and say, wow, you're

635
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,240
incredibly independent.
You're very intelligent.

636
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,960
The ability to explain and
articulate is actually going to

637
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,760
help you embed things and make
you think further.

638
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,000
And the ability to explain
something in simple terms is

639
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,880
actually a good skill for you.
So maybe you could have someone

640
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:36,920
who needs some support next to
you.

641
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,320
That's fine.
But six weeks down the line,

642
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,080
that becomes boring you, you and
and then a nuisance.

643
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:43,680
Yeah, and and it does become a
nuisance.

644
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,000
And actually, do you know what?
Sometimes I wanted my brightest

645
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,560
brains in the lesson on the same
table to push each other and,

646
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,120
and for me to go and work with
them, for me to push them.

647
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,960
Because I've said this a million
times before.

648
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:59,760
Of course there is a line where
there's a certain level I want

649
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,720
everyone to get to as a bare
minimum because I want them to

650
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,120
function like read, you know, do
maths, right.

651
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,160
So I understand why you then
those children get more support

652
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,080
because they need to get to that
line.

653
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,240
But, but overall, for all
progress is progress in my

654
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,520
opinion, and I never wanted to
detriment the progress of

655
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,320
children just because they were
further ahead, because they were

656
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,560
further ahead and it meant that
when I sat in a people progress

657
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,200
meeting, they didn't have to
worry about that name.

658
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,680
Oh, they're so far comfortable.
That's brilliant.

659
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,960
I I really was passionate about
actually making all of my

660
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,000
children grow in different ways
academically, etcetera, even if

661
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,640
they were already quite, quite
good at it.

662
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,080
So my, my, my point here is
we've with the lack of teaching

663
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,880
assistant and lack of support,
what was really like unleashed

664
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,200
my ability to teach was knowing
that I'm not going to hit every

665
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,800
box all of the time.
Because that what then allowed

666
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:52,680
me to do was have moments where,
OK, those four kids today aren't

667
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,840
going to do as much.
And I need to accept that

668
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,720
because it means that I can then
go and support these four

669
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,840
children who otherwise would
never get it.

670
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,720
And those four children could be
whatever label you think they

671
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,760
could be.
The children who don't do

672
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,000
anything if you leave them
alone, say, well, OK, well, I do

673
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,200
have to sometimes leave them
alone because otherwise it is me

674
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,160
giving a speech, speech to 33
kids and then working with the

675
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,400
same 4 kids every single day.
100% of the time.

676
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,520
You, yeah, you have to accept
that there are going to be a

677
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,200
group of children in an
individual lesson who don't get

678
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,200
the full support they might need
because you physically can't

679
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,120
give it to everyone.
So you're going to just spread

680
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,480
things around, have some lessons
where you do do that and you

681
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,480
spread them out.
And then you do mixed ability

682
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,040
seating.
Have some lessons where actually

683
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,560
you're going to have people at
the front that you work with.

684
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,160
Have some lessons where you plan
something, maybe even a little

685
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,120
bit separate that's relatively
easy for the children to get on

686
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:42,160
with and still do something, but
you're going to go and really

687
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,840
push your higher children.
You might have mixed ability in

688
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,720
terms of your middle E children
and your top children.

689
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,000
You might mix them up, be
completely malleable, and me

690
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,720
understanding that I physically
cannot give every child 100% of

691
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,200
what they need all the time and
it's not my fault, allowed me to

692
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,760
do that more and I think that I
became a better practitioner for

693
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:02,600
it.
Yeah, definitely.

694
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,120
I think that being malleable
thing is really is a huge key to

695
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:06,800
success there.
I think one thing I did, and

696
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,880
this was a long ago, because I
had, I didn't have mixed ability

697
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,120
sets for the last few years of
my career.

698
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,720
When I did have mixed ability
set, I had two seating plans and

699
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,600
then the kids knew them both.
So they didn't take them long to

700
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:16,800
learn.
I just had seating plan 1,

701
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,200
seating plan 2 because I just in
some situations wanted a very

702
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,440
specific seating plan where I
had my 6 kids, they just take

703
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,840
the kids at the front with me.
And other times where I just

704
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,800
didn't want them there all the
time and, and I wanted the mix

705
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,120
and I was like, I just have two
seating plans and the kids can

706
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:30,200
just go into those different
ones.

707
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,080
So that kind of goes in line
with what you're saying, I

708
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,800
guess.
I think you probably took it the

709
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,880
step even further in terms of
like complete malleability.

710
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,440
It might not even be just two
seating plants.

711
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,240
It's actually today I want you
to be here and here and here.

712
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,400
And it's different yesterday,
which is different to the day

713
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,560
before, but I think.
It's pros and cons to both.

714
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,880
I like your way like it's it's
quick for the kids, they know

715
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,920
where they're at.
It solves a problem.

716
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,080
My I remember my job share
always used to comment and joke

717
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,800
that every time they came in
every week the kids were in a

718
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,680
different place and it was
because of that.

719
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,280
Tables have moved.
Yeah, it would just be like, you

720
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,440
know what, Actually right now
this is the most optimal thing.

721
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,960
You, you, you swap, swap, swap.
Let's go, go, go, let's do it.

722
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,520
And, and yeah, it just, for me,
it worked.

723
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,800
It's malleability and
understanding.

724
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,520
You can't do everything.
It's not your fault.

725
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,760
And I know it makes you feel
like crap because it made me

726
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,840
feel like crap, but I just, I
had to almost suppress that.

727
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,320
Yeah, because you get drummed
into you, don't you, that not a

728
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,560
single minute can be wasted for
any kid ever.

729
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,560
And and that really gets you
down when a child has has sat

730
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,440
there with her hand up for three
minutes because you're working

731
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,400
with another child and there's
three other children with her

732
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,880
hands up.
And one of the things in that

733
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,600
situation you've got to do,
rather than panicking and

734
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:32,640
thinking, oh, I'll get to you in
a minute.

735
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,560
I'll get to a minute, is try and
encourage a bit of independence.

736
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,800
Independence as well.
Remember that the bar can be a

737
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:37,800
bit lower.
You don't have to reach this

738
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,640
crazy unattainable bar and just
think yourself, what could they

739
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,120
work on?
OK, they're struggling with that

740
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,400
work right now, but I literally
can't be in four places at once.

741
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,000
So what can we do?
They either do absolutely

742
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,920
nothing or I try to get them to
work on any, any other skill.

743
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,520
OK, ask your partner.
Can someone on your table help

744
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,080
you?
Can you have another go at that

745
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,440
question?
Can you leave that one and come

746
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,080
back to it later?
Can you have a go at this other

747
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,520
task like just other little
things up your sleeve where you

748
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,080
think they're going to be doing
something?

749
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,920
It's not the optimal thing
because I really wanted them to

750
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,880
do that question too, but they
can't do it.

751
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,080
So just accept that they can't
do it.

752
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:06,960
They can't do it until you're
there.

753
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,760
So what else can they do in that
moment until you get there, You

754
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,160
know, just having those little
things, I think.

755
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,800
Absolutely.
I think that's hopefully

756
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,520
answered your question in a way
we can't fix the system.

757
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,960
This is my overall point.
You cannot fix the broken

758
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,120
system, but what you can do is
work with what you've got and I

759
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,280
think that's the best way to do
it.

760
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,560
Let's go on to another question.
What is your opinion on SCN One

761
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,720
to ones or TA?
Is teaching assistants in Sen

762
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,480
classrooms in a mainstream
setting receiving the same pay

763
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,640
as Classroom Tasmania?
Let's qualify this because I can

764
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,520
immediately think well why
wouldn't they get the same?

765
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,000
This is interesting.
I value all Tasmania and believe

766
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,480
they all deserve higher pay.
However, I know many SENTAS who

767
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,080
are at risk of being bitten or
hit and who frequently carry out

768
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,240
nappy changes and other
additional tasks that wouldn't

769
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,640
usually be required in a
standard teaching assistant

770
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,000
role.
First thing very quickly, before

771
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,880
I throw over to you, I'm going
to, I'm going to say I, I get

772
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,920
this and I get the trepidation
about talking about stuff

773
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,440
because I think the roles of
teaching assistants have have

774
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,360
evolved so much.
It's hard to actually say the

775
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,600
words standard TA role.
It doesn't happen too often.

776
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,640
I teach an assistant who would
be the ones who had to go and

777
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,640
clear up the sick, you know,
like so.

778
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,160
So I'm just going to make that
clear right now.

779
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:22,560
However, I do think there's a
distinction when you see what

780
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,560
kind of honestly at points
danger teaching assistants in

781
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,080
Sen schools with in in those
situations who genuinely do get

782
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,880
bit and scratched hair pulled.
It is different.

783
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,920
I think that's a good point and
it is worth thinking about.

784
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,480
The extremities really like, you
know, Tasmania that work in

785
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,240
special needs schools where they
are potentially being bitten is

786
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,960
obviously obviously quite
different to working in a Main

787
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,960
Street school, even if you are
like clean up a bit sick every

788
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,520
now and then.
It's just, it's there that you

789
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,360
can compare them.
And I think there's, there's

790
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,480
two, there's two ways to look at
it really.

791
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,880
Like should, should they be paid
more like, well, I think you

792
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,680
could argue yes, because
realistically they are like it,

793
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:00,520
it is.
It's hard.

794
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,280
It's so hard because I'm trying
to not say the right thing.

795
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,600
I don't want to say it's a
tougher job.

796
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,280
Every job's tough.
But but but your tougher job is

797
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,160
this.
I know, but like you said,

798
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,440
trepidation.
I'm being really careful with

799
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:14,280
the way I word this, but OK.
If I had the choice of being ATA

800
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,160
where I don't get bitten,
there's less risk of me getting

801
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,560
bitten and punched versus 1
where I could do get a bit.

802
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,080
Obviously, I'm going to pick
that one if they're the same

803
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:21,680
pay.
Yeah.

804
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,600
Like we do kind of need to
incentivize.

805
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,800
We do need TA's to work in
schools where it is more

806
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,520
physically challenging.
You're more at risk.

807
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,760
Well, this question is about in
mainstream schools still like

808
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,680
having that setting because
there's a lot more inclusion

809
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,640
now, inclusivity, etcetera.
It's quite often to have that

810
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,000
one to 1 SEND with children who
maybe are at risk.

811
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,600
Yeah, but but you're right, like
just just as a generic point,

812
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,200
SEND schools also do exist.
And my sister used to work in

813
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:45,280
one.
She come home with scratches on

814
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,000
her face.
Yeah.

815
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,080
You know, it was a thing.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

816
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,440
But like, yeah, so it's
interesting point here would be

817
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,720
in a mainstream school, you're 1
to one with a child who has

818
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,400
these tendencies perhaps and
puts you in danger compared to

819
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,600
in the same school, just a, you
know, a regular mainstream

820
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,080
teaching assistant.
Should there be a discrepancy in

821
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,360
pay?
I can see why that's a tricky

822
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,200
question, but my gut instinct is
there should be like a

823
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,600
allocation bonus I think if
you're at personal risk.

824
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,160
In essence, I agree.
Like I think from from every

825
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,080
like moral standpoint, if we
take a high ground, we look at

826
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,880
that, I think, yeah, we should
be incentivizing people with a

827
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,360
bit more because it is just a
riskier job.

828
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,600
But here's the problem with
reality is the reason I don't

829
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,840
think it happens is because
you've just think of business in

830
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,960
general, supply and demand.
Someone always does the job.

831
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,480
But if, if no one was applying
for the job, then they don't,

832
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,680
they'd have to pay up.
So I think the reason it's not

833
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,160
going up is simply because
there's, there's someone,

834
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,480
someone is fulfilling that role.
I don't think it's fair.

835
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:37,720
I think they're getting taken
advantage of.

836
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,040
But I think people, the schools
and the, the system itself is

837
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,840
looking at being like, ah,
someone will do it.

838
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,240
So.
You change your tuner striking.

839
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,800
What do you mean?
Should strike them, should not

840
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,720
do it.
Should refuse your refuse work.

841
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,920
Well, I think in that issue I
think Tasmania have got the

842
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,960
absolute worst deal ever.
I think they should absolutely

843
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:52,640
be.
There should be.

844
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,120
String action for them.
Definitely.

845
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,760
I feel horrible for Tasmania.
We were, we were looking the

846
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,640
other day, weren't we?
We were looking on our local.

847
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,320
Yeah, we were.
It's called Kent Teach.

848
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,600
We're in Kent and it's where all
the job adverts go up.

849
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,280
And I just remember your
reaction because I kind of had

850
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,960
an idea because again, I'm, I do
a lot of the podcast work, as

851
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,360
you know, I talk, I talk to you
guys.

852
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,440
It's me on the other end.
Hayden's just, yeah, right.

853
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,320
We looked at the, the pay for a
teaching assistant role.

854
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,000
Yeah.
And it's just disgusting.

855
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,639
Yeah, it was done here.
It's, it's insane.

856
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:23,560
And, and the classic thing is
£24,000 a year and you looked at

857
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:24,480
that and you went, oh, it's
quite.

858
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:26,159
It's not bad that's gone up.
It's all right.

859
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,639
Yeah, yeah, that's just, that's
just taking into account full

860
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:29,960
time equivalent FTA.
Yeah.

861
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,239
So you know, realistically
you're getting about 1200 LB,

862
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,560
1300 LB before tax a month to be
a teacher.

863
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,199
It was 15.6 grand and I the
reason I remember that so well

864
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,040
is because I remember thinking 8
or 9 years ago, I, I thought

865
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,760
that's what Tasmania were
getting paid then because I

866
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,360
think, I think maybe I met a
HLTA and like the top bracket

867
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:48,199
and I was like, what is the
hell?

868
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,679
Am I getting paid 15 grand for
this crazy job they're doing?

869
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,280
And the fact that like 9 years
later, I saw that I was

870
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,679
gobsmacked.
I was gobsmacked at that.

871
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,200
There's been a lot of outcry for
yeah, you know, there's been a

872
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,080
lot for teachers and people
pushing for higher pay and more

873
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,120
funding in schools.
But yeah, poor TA, they get left

874
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,960
behind and and they do such a
huge role.

875
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,320
They're working full time in a
school.

876
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,200
And like you said, if you're
working full time in a school

877
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,400
and you're an SEM 1:00 to 1:00
and you're potentially getting

878
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,880
hit and and bitten and all sorts
of abuse thrown at you, But and

879
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,600
you're there to support that
child and you've got to keep a

880
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,240
level head.
That's a really, really tough

881
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,080
vital job.
Essential for that child,

882
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,800
essential for the classroom,
essential for the school that

883
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,560
that child has that one to one.
Otherwise, like what?

884
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,200
What's going to happen if not
and we go, yeah, yeah, we'll

885
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,200
give you, yeah, we'll give you
an unlivable amount of money.

886
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,240
Yeah, sorry.
Yeah, no.

887
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,080
So I think, you know, the
biggest point there that I

888
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,920
really want to stress on.
I'm sure we can sit there and

889
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,800
compare should should they get
more if they get bitten?

890
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,480
Is there a bit?
Is there a bike quota you get

891
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,200
more per bike?
Like we could sit there and

892
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,120
compare TA's that don't get
bitten with tears that do.

893
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,200
But realistically, the big point
there was I value all TA's and

894
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,560
believe they all deserve higher
pay.

895
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,920
That's that's the probably the
bit we should be like, yes, that

896
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,440
is so much more important than
anything.

897
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,840
Do do you think you got to the
point where because as a teacher

898
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,560
you would genuinely accept less
of a pay rise if it meant

899
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,160
teaching assistants got an
actual bump?

900
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,720
Because because it's this is
where I get kind of frustrated

901
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:08,760
about the whole conversation
because if you say no to that,

902
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,480
you're seen as selfish.
Don't care about teaching

903
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,320
assistants.
Like no, but I care about

904
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,800
everyone.
Like I hate how it's seen as

905
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:21,080
teachers greediness means
Tasmania get and that's that's

906
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,720
the narrative and I want to just
get away from it.

907
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,360
It's like, yeah, I think TA
should get a massive pay rise.

908
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,640
When I do a reel and we release
something about teachers needing

909
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,440
a pay rise, the amount of people
who are like, what about

910
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,920
Tasmania?
Do you not care about the

911
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,000
teaching assistants because they
see a minute reel and assume

912
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,200
everything They know everything
about us.

913
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,680
What about them?
So well, I'm not talking about

914
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,200
them.
I I also think they should get a

915
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,960
pay rise and I think it should
be more significant.

916
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,680
It's a separate reel for that.
It's a separate one, yeah.

917
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,800
Then what about animal rights?
I'm not talk about this.

918
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,840
And it winds me up because what,
what winds were even more is

919
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,000
when someone assumes something I
don't think or we don't.

920
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Teaching assistants deserve a

921
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,360
huge pay rise.
They've been stagnated.

922
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,640
They've been forgotten.
And you know why?

923
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,720
Because no one cares if they
exist or not at the top.

924
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,480
But it's actually probably going
to be more beneficial for the

925
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,920
people at the top.
Balancing the budgets, funding

926
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,920
things that can't be funded
anymore if we get rid of them

927
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,080
completely.
They're the low hanging fruit.

928
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,200
They're the first people to go.
You're not even saving that much

929
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,320
money because they're on such.
Little I know, that's the irony.

930
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,120
Just keep them then, like
they're doing.

931
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,840
They're exploited so much and
they're still the first people

932
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,720
to go.
It's just insane.

933
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,920
If you just look at where like
things can be cut, it's not

934
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,160
teaching assistants, is it?
Like they're the last things I'm

935
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,200
thinking to get rid of.
It's insane.

936
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,240
Yeah, it's madness.
And back to your question about

937
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:41,640
whether I would forego like a
pay rise for teachers in favour

938
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,920
of TAS, The the wider thing to
me there is I would be annoyed

939
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,800
at the system again, like, why
are you pitting US against each

940
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,000
other?
Yeah, that would be my bigger

941
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,120
thing.
I almost don't even want to

942
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,360
answer that question.
Like point in that situation, I

943
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,320
all I'd be arguing for is
stopping us against each other.

944
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,080
This is ridiculous.
That's ridiculous.

945
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,280
It shouldn't be one or the
other.

946
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,040
I'm not even getting involved.
You know what I mean?

947
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,320
I would just say no to the whole
thing.

948
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:00,200
Also no.
Yeah.

949
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,080
You know, if it really came down
to it, genuinely, I would, I

950
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,560
would say right.
TA's need, they need something.

951
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:08,160
They need something.
We've been fighting, we've had a

952
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,560
couple of very, very small wind.
I'm not talking much winds here.

953
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,520
We've at least had something.
Whereas TA, they've had

954
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,600
absolutely nothing.
So I probably would be like,

955
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,480
right, let's fight for them this
time.

956
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,880
This is a wider point for me
though, I'm getting better here,

957
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,520
going outside of the world of
education.

958
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:27,120
I find it so frustrating and and
so a a sad indictment on society

959
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,560
in general that there are jobs
that exist that you can work

960
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,040
full time and still not be able
to afford to live.

961
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,880
We're talking about those kind
of jobs like the recently the

962
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,240
minimum wage is going up to
£12.50 in the budget it was

963
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:41,560
announced.
And I just look at if you work

964
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,720
full time on that wage in the
area where we live, you will

965
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:50,040
have not enough money to survive
because rents are too high, cost

966
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,680
of living is too high.
You've got your bills to pay

967
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,680
for, you've got your food to pay
for, you've got your transport

968
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,680
to pay for.
You're left with nothing.

969
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,960
Like it's, it's absolutely
insane that it exists where the

970
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,480
amount that you're allowed to
pay someone for doing a full

971
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,800
time job doesn't provide them
with the means to live.

972
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,960
It's it's like what this is
just, this is just extra steps

973
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,280
towards, I'm not going to say
slavery because it's obviously

974
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,080
not, but it's just trapping
people in that hole.

975
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,160
It's insane to me.
And I think teaching assistants,

976
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,920
that's one of them where I think
it's such pitiful pay that the

977
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,400
only way you can sustain
yourself really on a teaching

978
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,400
assistants wage is hoping that
you've almost had a career

979
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,520
beforehand that's kind of paved
its way for you and you can

980
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,320
survive it better.
You haven't got mortgage rates

981
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,280
going through your eyes or you
really struggle.

982
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,920
You really, really struggle and,
and most teaching assistants

983
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,120
I've met are absolute Saints,
the best people in the world who

984
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:41,240
want to do the best for the
kids.

985
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:44,400
And it's just sad, isn't it,
that we're in a situation where

986
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,960
it's like, yeah, well, tough.
Yeah, we just take advantage of

987
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,440
people who want the hours.
They the only attraction of

988
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,400
being a TA is certainly not the
loyalty because they're the 1st

989
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,440
that you said the 1st to get
binned.

990
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,400
It's not the pay.
The only attraction of being a

991
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,160
TA, and we've seen this a lot is
you get to work very

992
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,000
specifically in school hours.
And we get a lot of people, it's

993
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,480
particularly mums I find who
have got young kids and are

994
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,440
going to, the kids are going to
school and they just want to

995
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,480
work in at the time their kids
are in school.

996
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,000
And TA is obviously the perfect
role for that.

997
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,000
And we have capital by we, I
mean the system have capitalised

998
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,800
off of that to the absolute
maximum in terms of we've given,

999
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,280
we've taken away everything else
they can possibly.

1000
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,640
Have other than the perk of,
well, you get to pick up your

1001
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,680
kids from school, you can work
in school hours like that is

1002
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,080
that is it now there's nothing
left.

1003
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,040
There's nothing more you can
strip from Tasmania other than

1004
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,320
getting rid of them, which is
where we're at.

1005
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,440
And even that's being stripped
because TA is more and more

1006
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,560
being expected to plan to mark
after school.

1007
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,760
So, well, I was, I was able to
take my kids from school, but I

1008
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,880
got these books to mark now
because I covered, yeah, what

1009
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,640
are we doing?
I cover every day, by the way.

1010
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,440
Yeah.
Yeah, I, I, I overtime needs to

1011
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,080
be paid.
They don't have directed time if

1012
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,760
you're expecting your teaching
assistant to mark after

1013
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,040
covering.
And firstly, you should not be

1014
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,840
expecting them to do any work
outside of the contract.

1015
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,080
It's a different kind of
contract.

1016
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,480
Yeah, if you do, you bloody pay
them for doing it and never

1017
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,480
expect it and they choose to do
it or not.

1018
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,480
If they need to go when the
contract ends, get out that

1019
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,320
door.
I'll never resent a teaching

1020
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:02,840
assistant leaving.
I used to kick mine out the

1021
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,680
door.
She'd come round and say bye.

1022
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,880
Physically, it's like 3:45 and I
was like, what you've been doing

1023
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,480
we've been doing for 20 minutes.
So I just had to do this.

1024
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,920
Go home.
Yeah, you're a lovely, lovely

1025
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,680
person, but you are not paid
enough to do this consistently.

1026
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,120
Go home.
Get out my site.

1027
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:18,640
Yeah, come in early tomorrow,
buddy.

1028
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,880
Get it done, all right?
Just go home.

1029
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,320
Do it.
Oh.

1030
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,760
Goodness me madness.
But yeah, TA feel sorry for

1031
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:26,280
them.
OK.

1032
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,160
And let's wrap it up there.
We've got plenty more questions

1033
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,760
on the way next week for another
QA.

1034
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,800
Join the WhatsApp.
We're going to be harvesting

1035
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,000
more questions in the future.
Hayden has specifically asked me

1036
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,360
not to go to him and say, is
there anything to say at the

1037
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,120
end?
So, Hayden, anything to say

1038
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,480
before we wrap up?
Make sure to wear your school

1039
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,680
shoes to work and not your
trainers.

1040
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:43,480
See you next time, bye.