Ep 156: Daily Struggles of a Teacher & How To Overcome Them: Imposter Syndrome, Constant Judgement & Toxic Comparisons

1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,960
Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach

2
00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:03,200
Steep Repeat.
My name is Dylan.

3
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,000
And my name's Hayden.
And in this episode, we're going

4
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,720
to be taking a look at the daily
struggles of a teacher and how

5
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,640
to overcome them.
We'll be taking a look at

6
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,240
imposter syndrome, which is
widespread in the profession.

7
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,360
The toxic nature of judgement in
schools.

8
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,640
And how comparing yourself to
other professionals can actually

9
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,760
lead you down the road of
thinking you're not good enough.

10
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,000
And don't forget to share this
with a colleague and leave us a

11
00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:23,520
review.
Dylan, let's dive in.

12
00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,240
Right over to you then.
You managed to actually plan and

13
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:29,680
and get stuff sorted for an
episode.

14
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,280
So you're you're it big man.
How, how many times can you say

15
00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,000
that in the podcast before
people start to realise hang on?

16
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,720
Dylan said.
Oh you can plan this yourself

17
00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,280
and it's been 7 times.
No one, no one remembers more

18
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:39,480
than three episodes ago.
Do they?

19
00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:41,160
He's insulting.
He's insulting you and me.

20
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:42,920
So there we go.
Let's get started.

21
00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,840
What a great way to start.
So yeah, we're going to talk

22
00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,400
about the daily struggles of a
teacher and how to overcome

23
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:48,080
them.
Yeah, I know that.

24
00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:49,360
I heard the intro.
Come on, chop chop.

25
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,640
This is why you need to start,
Dylan, because you're too judgy.

26
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,880
All right, the first thing we're
going to talk about is imposter

27
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,600
syndrome.
I got this idea from someone in

28
00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,760
our WhatsApp community who said,
please can you talk about

29
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,400
imposter syndrome?
And like, does everyone suffer

30
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:03,800
from it?
Firstly, yes.

31
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,600
And how do we overcome it?
So, Dylan, why do even brilliant

32
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,400
teachers doubt themselves still?
I think imposter syndrome is so

33
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,080
common in teaching for a very
clear reason.

34
00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,280
The the bar's too high.
The it's it, it is genuinely

35
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,880
almost impossible to fulfil what
is seen as the requirements to

36
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,320
be a good teacher.
Yeah, it's just so hard.

37
00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,800
So I think by definition, no one
actually exists, especially if

38
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,320
you're early in your career who
starts being a teacher, who is

39
00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:33,960
hitting the mark all the time
and everything.

40
00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,840
So it's so easy to slip into
thinking that that's because of

41
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,520
you personally rather than
because it's just an

42
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,880
unattainable goal.
So I think a huge part of

43
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,080
imposter syndrome is firstly
understanding that you probably

44
00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,640
feel that way because it's
rigged against you in the 1st

45
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,040
place.
You yeah, sure, you're not going

46
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,560
to hit hit that target of being
the best at everything you could

47
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,280
possibly be.
You're not going to be able to

48
00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,480
have any kind of work life
balance and also plan things

49
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,880
individually down to every
single child's individual needs

50
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,800
all the time for every single
minute of every single day.

51
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,440
You can't do it.
So when you start, you think,

52
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,360
I'm a brand new teacher.
I'm so I'm so invigorated.

53
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,560
I'm going to spend all my time
doing this and I still just

54
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,760
can't do it.
I must be awful.

55
00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,600
Aren't I the worst teacher in
the world?

56
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,400
No, you're learning.
Firstly, you will get better, so

57
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,640
that will happen.
And secondly, even experienced

58
00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:24,640
teachers still feel imposter
syndrome because they'll think

59
00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:26,840
I'm 10 years into this, how am I
still not on top of everything

60
00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,880
because it's impossible to be.
So it's two, it's 2 prongs.

61
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,200
In my opinion, if you're
inexperienced, you absolutely

62
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,880
will feel imposter syndrome in
almost anything you do because

63
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,200
you're building your experience
up and your ability to do

64
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:38,360
something and you will get
there.

65
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,720
So my advice for that is fake it
till you make it.

66
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,280
Just keep trying, work at it.
No, you're not going to be there

67
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,160
straight away.
Doesn't mean you're in imposter.

68
00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,880
It means you're learning.
And the second part of this is

69
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,560
understand what you're working
towards.

70
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,120
If you're working towards
something that is attainable,

71
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,880
then ride the imposter syndrome
and you'll eventually get there.

72
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,320
I think in teaching we're
working towards something which

73
00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,680
is completely unattainable.
You cannot get there.

74
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,360
It's impossible to do this job
perfectly all the time because

75
00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,160
of the lack of funding, because
there's so much pressure on

76
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,400
teachers to do things.
The expectations gone through

77
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,240
the roof, the budget has gone
through the floor, so you will

78
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,880
never get there.
So unless you just learn to deal

79
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:14,840
with that imposter syndrome and
actually realise it's not

80
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,200
imposter syndrome, you're doing
the best you can do and you're

81
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,200
really good at it, you will be
25 years into teaching and still

82
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,920
have that feeling.
Yeah, for sure.

83
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,240
I think alongside fake it so you
make it, there's a few sort of

84
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,520
core things you can do in your
own mind as well in terms of

85
00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,280
developing your ability to
reflect rather than just be self

86
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:33,920
critical.
I think that's a big one, not

87
00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:36,120
just beating yourself up.
I certainly did it and I know

88
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:37,800
you certainly did.
We definitely had imposter

89
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,720
syndrome at the start of our
career, maybe even later on as

90
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,640
well, where if I did one thing
wrong, I would just beat myself

91
00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,920
up over it rather than just
being reflective and being like,

92
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,600
actually I did 9 good things.
And yeah, there's these two

93
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,840
things that I can work on and
being reflective.

94
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,560
And that's just an important
distinction to make it to train

95
00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,040
yourself to actually highlight
your own positives and not just

96
00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,960
constantly aiming for
perfectionism.

97
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,240
Because I think that's the
problem, that that bar is so

98
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,760
high that I honestly attribute
it with perfectionism.

99
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,840
It's like our teachers,
perfectionists by nature.

100
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,640
If you're getting impostors.
In a way, yeah, because we just

101
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,720
want to be absolutely at the top
of our game in 19 different

102
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,360
areas of teaching whilst the
system beats us down.

103
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,519
You just have to let it go, I
think.

104
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,440
Yeah, completely.
It's just it's so tricky.

105
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:21,680
I think that's that's why it
exists.

106
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,520
That's my two cents on that and
that will always be my advice.

107
00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,480
I think fake it to you make it's
the easy one to say, but what

108
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,080
you said is really important.
How often did you listen to

109
00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,400
feedback and an observation or
or get something told to you?

110
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,080
And it doesn't matter if 95% of
what was said was lovely and how

111
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,560
amazing you were.
The only thing that sticks in

112
00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,400
your mind is someone at the end
said you didn't ask many

113
00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,480
questions of the class.
Could you do that a bit more?

114
00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,360
You're the worst teacher in.
The world suddenly so bad.

115
00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,200
I'm so bad at this job.
Why am I so bad?

116
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,440
Despite there being a list of 10
things that they said you did

117
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,320
really well.
And despite the literal rules of

118
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,760
most schools being you have to
give someone a point for for

119
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,600
feedback to develop, you have
to, it's like you're never even

120
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,840
going to get, I tell you what is
unattainable, getting completely

121
00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:00,640
positive feedback in a lot of
schools because they literally

122
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,440
have a rule of where we have to
give them something to develop.

123
00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,040
So in that sense, take it with a
pinch of salt.

124
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,480
They're always going to give you
some to develop.

125
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,240
And you know what?
Sometimes it might be a really

126
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,440
good thing for you to reflect on
and actually try to develop.

127
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,280
Work on one thing at a time.
Don't get yourself overwhelmed

128
00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:16,440
and just think, I'm just so bad
because I can't do 7 things at

129
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:17,320
once.
OK, that's fine.

130
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,800
Maybe you can't do those seven
things yet.

131
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,960
Work on one of them.
Next year, work on the next one,

132
00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,960
work on the next one.
And over time you'll realise

133
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,440
you're not an imposter at all.
You're actually very, very good

134
00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,320
at this job.
Definitely, definitely redefine

135
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:30,640
what success is.
Yeah.

136
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,120
So it's a new goal.
Cool.

137
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,400
Next one you've got here.
And I think this was this was

138
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,360
kind of linked to anything was
about this myth of there being

139
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,160
the superhero teacher, you know,
feeling like you have to do

140
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:41,600
everything.
It's it's very much linked to

141
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:42,960
what you just said.
I don't think we need to spend

142
00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,000
long on this, but there are
definitely teachers out there

143
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,480
who feel like they simply have
to do everything all of the

144
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,720
time.
Why is this a barrier?

145
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,040
Why do people feel this way?
And how can we get over?

146
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,560
It, I think because teaching,
the reason I've kind of kept

147
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,480
this as a separate point is
because I wanted to widen up a

148
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,400
little bit.
Like just outside of the, the

149
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,160
physical act of teaching what
you're qualified to do, you're

150
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,720
also expected to, to be able to
be incredibly creative and put

151
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,720
up amazing displays.
I'm like, you don't, you didn't

152
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,440
really go to university to learn
that.

153
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,640
In all honesty, that is just
kind of like, oh, have you got

154
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,880
this skill set as well?
You didn't really go to

155
00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,200
university, even though I would
say this is much, much closer to

156
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,120
the job of teaching.
But to be like a really good

157
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,400
counsellor in particular
situations for children's

158
00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,680
emotional health where it's like
you're not really that trained

159
00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,440
in that you're you're trained in
how to deliver a curriculum

160
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,880
really well and optimise like
pedagogy in the classroom.

161
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,520
So being that the superhero
teacher to me is can you be an

162
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:32,880
amazing teacher?
Everything we just talked about

163
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,560
in number one with the imposter
syndrome.

164
00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:36,800
And also you need to do these
other seven jobs that people

165
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,200
literally have full time jobs in
in other sectors of work.

166
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,760
Like you just got to be really
good at them as well.

167
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,760
And I think like, yeah, well,
how do you manage that?

168
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:44,680
What do you do?
You can't.

169
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,840
You can't you be?
There's that running joke that

170
00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:48,760
you see, I know all the time of
teachers and nurses.

171
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,240
There's therapists, yeah,
they're psychologists, they're

172
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,120
behaviour coaches, they're
teachers.

173
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:54,960
You know, they're everything
they possibly can be.

174
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,920
It is exactly that.
You can't be everything.

175
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,640
I was naff at displays.
It wasn't my Forte.

176
00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:02,600
I also didn't want to do them
like I.

177
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,240
You have to just prioritise.
And I think this comes in with

178
00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,640
the top thing is just know who
you are, know who you are, know

179
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,640
what your strengths are.
Do what you can, but except that

180
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,000
it might be, in the eyes of some
people, never enough.

181
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,920
You're not that lovely consoling
person who the kids run up to

182
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,560
all of the time and want to be
with you all of the time.

183
00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,640
It's like, oh look, it's Sarah
or it's miss out on the

184
00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:26,720
playground.
Always knows what to say.

185
00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,360
I'm going to be their shadow.
They just always know what to

186
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,160
do.
Sometimes that's not you and

187
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,560
that's fine.
And I think that expectation can

188
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,960
be external sometimes.
And I think a lot of what I'm

189
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,320
going to say today based on the
things you've written down, I

190
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,160
think they're absolutely vital.
But I think you have to control

191
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,400
the controllables.
That's my big thing.

192
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,240
You can say it until you're red
in your face.

193
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,880
For example, we did a a video
the other day about emails being

194
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,080
sent right until you're red in
the face.

195
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,560
You can sit there and say, well,
they shouldn't be bloody sending

196
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,600
emails on a Saturday morning.
What are they doing?

197
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,160
Well, they shouldn't do it on
outside of school time.

198
00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,960
OK, you can think that, but you
can't control that people are

199
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,440
going to send you emails at the
weekend.

200
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,080
You can control when you check
it, you can control if it's on

201
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,680
your phone.
So my, my scene here so far is

202
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,600
you can't control the idea that
people externally might look in

203
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,720
and say you should be all of
these things, but you can

204
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,360
control what you literally do
and what you do well.

205
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,880
Do what you do well.
Prioritise.

206
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,480
If we have the idea of planning
and behaviour alongside being a

207
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,520
therapist essentially for a
child and counselling them, we

208
00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,960
have to understand what our
strengths are as teachers.

209
00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,960
And despite external funding
being cut left right and centre

210
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,880
for these people who are
professionals to come in and

211
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,640
help with it, it can't be put on
you personally to then pick up

212
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,240
that slack.
It's not your job.

213
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:45,560
I agree.
Controller controllables.

214
00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:48,200
I like that phrase.
Controller controllables don't

215
00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,960
control the uncontrollables
because they're uncontrollable.

216
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,040
You can't control them.
I should get that on your wall.

217
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,000
There's a clip right there,
quote, someone put that on their

218
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,680
wall in your classroom.
So next one I want to talk about

219
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,720
regarding teacher barriers and
and struggles is that fear of

220
00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,200
being judged.
I feel like it's such a big

221
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,160
thing in teaching, right?
Like I'm sure everyone has a bit

222
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,880
of fear of being judged, but I
feel like it's so amplified in

223
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,520
teaching.
I want to get your thoughts on

224
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,720
why.
Why is there such a negative

225
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,040
culture in the profession of
teaching with this idea of being

226
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,760
observed?
Like what comes to mind?

227
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:20,880
But the first thing that comes
to mind is this.

228
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,200
This definitely this culture of
nothing's ever good enough.

229
00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:26,280
And I get that.
And like even in the private

230
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,800
sector, a lot of like cut throat
businesses will be like, no, no,

231
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,680
we worked and there's always
something we can improve on.

232
00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:31,920
There's always something we can
do better.

233
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,120
And I think in schools, it's
about this is the children's

234
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:36,600
future.
Everything is so important.

235
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,440
There's always something else
you can possibly do.

236
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,160
And like you said about the
observations built in for many

237
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,560
schools, you have to put
something in the feedback box.

238
00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:46,080
I've heard it so much from
teachers where it's been like,

239
00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:47,760
yeah, they said they're going to
have to go away and think of

240
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,080
something and make it up.
It happened to me.

241
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:50,720
It happened to probably someone,
you know, you're listening to

242
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,160
this.
I think it comes from that a lot

243
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,320
of the time.
But we can we look further than

244
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,800
Ofsted, and can we look further
than the very way the literal

245
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,040
government decide to judge and
base schools and Ofsted pretend

246
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,120
to be this collaborative machine
that raises standards?

247
00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,600
No, it doesn't.
It's a judgement machine.

248
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,560
It comes into schools.
It wields its acts of judgement.

249
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,680
You can come down on one side or
the other based on literally

250
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:16,680
what inspector comes into your
school and what they decide to

251
00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:18,840
look into and what they
personally think is more or less

252
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,480
important or let you get away
with or not.

253
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,680
You could have one inspector go
to the same school and be judged

254
00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:24,960
different to a different
inspector.

255
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,760
They went to the same school.
It's arbitrary.

256
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,960
Yeah, and it is.
It is inherently judgmental and

257
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,800
I think from the top down,
systemically, judgement is built

258
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,280
into teaching at every level
that feeds its way down to

259
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,240
leadership and management who
want to get ready for Ofsted.

260
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,960
So they run things like mock
steps that runs its way down to

261
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,400
middle leadership like subject
leads, head of departments,

262
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,400
etcetera, who want to appease
their leaders.

263
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,920
And then they end up doing hours
and hours of scrutiny and

264
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,080
checking books and looking for
bits and bobs so that they can

265
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,800
say on paper, yeah, we've done
this and we've told the staff

266
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,240
they've got to improve here or
there.

267
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,960
It moves away from collaborative
help and more to ticking a box

268
00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,920
to say I've done this judgement,
to say that I've done my job so

269
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,480
that I'm OK when someone else
comes in systemically from the

270
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:06,360
top to take a look.
I.

271
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,680
Think it's a really good point,
but I want to challenge it a

272
00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:10,920
little bit with Ofsted because I
know something we've said in the

273
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,400
past in this podcast.
And a lot of people share the

274
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,880
same idea that we've said Ofsted
would be better served if they

275
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,520
stopped coming in and just
giving judgements and telling

276
00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:19,480
schools what they can and can't
do.

277
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,800
And actually just became the
collaborative force that they're

278
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,960
supposed to be, which is going
into schools to to help rise

279
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:25,640
them up.
You know what I mean?

280
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,840
Going to schools that are
struggling, sending genuine

281
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,320
professionals in who maybe head
teachers from other schools or

282
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,920
similar schools or whatever,
someone that can come in and

283
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,880
actually work with the school
and just help them get better

284
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,520
rather than just going in and
saying you're rubbish

285
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,120
everything.
I was having a conversation with

286
00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,280
some people about this not too
long ago and they were saying

287
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,960
overwhelmingly negative things
about the idea of that happening

288
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,280
as well.
About the idea of like a head

289
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,680
teacher from a local school
coming in and helping a school

290
00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:53,240
by getting involved with their
curriculum planning or working

291
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,200
alongside the head teacher,
whatever it is they need to do

292
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,840
to get the school up and going
in and obviously include

293
00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,640
observing around the school.
And people are still really

294
00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,600
against that idea.
When I'm in this conversation I

295
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:04,600
was having.
Maybe it's not, you know,

296
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,440
widespread and it just, it just
made me think, do you think

297
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,160
there's a deeper rooted issue
here or am I just making this up

298
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,520
with people just don't want to
be judged and observed no matter

299
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:15,640
what.
Like it doesn't even matter if

300
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,000
it's collaborative.
They just don't want to be

301
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:18,800
looked at.
Certainly we, we've, we've

302
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,120
literally addressed it before.
It's not nice to get that kind

303
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,200
of feedback, is it?
I think it's really important

304
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,640
and and vital.
This is about being judged, like

305
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,240
the fear of being judged in
general.

306
00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:33,560
I think it's easier to help
people get over that fear, which

307
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:36,040
needs to happen.
Also, I think it's easier to do

308
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:37,640
that if you're not just simply
judging.

309
00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,000
If you're going in and saying
this is bad, I'm going to come

310
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,000
in and I'm going to say this is
a required improvement school.

311
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,280
This history curriculum is not
as chronological as I would

312
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,440
like.
This maths work, you're not

313
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,720
supporting them.
OK, what we're going to do about

314
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,880
it.
So either way, I'm, I'm

315
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,120
absolutely with you and that
there's no way to really raise

316
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,520
standards without judging in a
way because I'm judging where

317
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,240
you're at to see what you need
to raise standards in.

318
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,640
My issue is when it's solely
judging.

319
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,000
That's my point.
And I think you're absolutely

320
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,040
right.
There will always be pushed back

321
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,440
to people not being like to be
being judged, etcetera.

322
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,080
But I think you can foster that.
We talked about a million times.

323
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,320
I love the fact my previous SLT
were just always in my

324
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,680
classroom.
It became low stakes.

325
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,280
Yeah, I knew they were
obviously, obviously a part of

326
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:23,480
them.
What they did.

327
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,920
I understood that if they walked
in and I was doing the Macarena

328
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,080
at the front without a lesson
halfway through the day, they'd

329
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:30,840
have a problem with that and
they'd pull me up on it, right.

330
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,840
But it was low stakes.
OK.

331
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,240
I was doing the Congress
instead.

332
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,640
My point is, I think being
judged, you make it.

333
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,200
You make a good point.
I think there is a slight

334
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,120
problem with sometimes teachers
can be a bit precious and my way

335
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,160
or the highway, I know what I'm
doing, I'm professional.

336
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,360
I think we need to move towards
that way more, but there has to

337
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:55,240
be scope for support, help.
John, my biggest problem, this

338
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,680
is a slight tangent, but my
biggest issue with this, it's

339
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:04,520
too often people who came into
my classroom and observed me, I

340
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,560
knew were not as good at
teaching as I was.

341
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,800
Wow.
I, I, I knew that I didn't

342
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,240
respect them in the profession.
I didn't think, wow, you're an

343
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,320
amazing teacher.
I thought that of a lot of my

344
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,000
colleagues, I'd go and go into
my colleagues room, especially

345
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,760
when I was a newly qualified
teacher, I'd go into my

346
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,400
colleagues room and see some
amazing practise and I couldn't

347
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,720
wait to get back to my room and
improve my practise in that way.

348
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,760
And no point was I judged
necessarily.

349
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,240
Maybe I had an observation.
They said we can try and improve

350
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:33,920
your behaviour management.
Go and watch these three

351
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,520
teachers.
I wanted to, oh, I couldn't

352
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,480
wait.
But when someone walked into my

353
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,760
classroom who I knew was not a
very good teacher, but I'd done

354
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,360
the right things to get promoted
within a school, and we're in a

355
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,640
situation where they needed to
look busy maybe.

356
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,760
And they were involved in these
learning walks and they'd come

357
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,120
in and give me feedback and I
knew what I was doing was better

358
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,160
practise than what they were
saying was good practise in the

359
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,280
feedback.
That's when the judgement became

360
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:57,720
pointless.
That's when I didn't like the

361
00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,960
judgement when it was from
someone I didn't respect who I

362
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:02,760
knew wasn't as good at the job.
How many, how many people in

363
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,680
leadership who come in and judge
you as a teacher are less

364
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,200
effective at teaching than the
teachers themselves?

365
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,960
That's a broken system.
So it has to be a whole picture.

366
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,640
It has to be quality people who
you've identified a weakness in

367
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,360
your school, maybe through some
form of judgement.

368
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,120
I'm not saying it shouldn't
exist, but then you get people

369
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,560
who are quality at what they do.
They do it day in, day out, and

370
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,480
they're collaborative and they
help and you can go and see them

371
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,120
do it rather than it just be
someone in the suit coming into

372
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,240
a room on a piece of paper
saying this, this and this.

373
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:32,480
Not good enough, Go and sort it
out.

374
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,680
There's a way to do it, I mean.
There's a lot, there's a lot of

375
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,560
solutions in there to that.
Just to sort of summarise, I

376
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,920
think if you just have that
overarching fear of being

377
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,440
judged, try and break it down,
breakdown firstly, who it is

378
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,000
that's coming in, what you think
their motives are, what they're

379
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,960
looking for.
Pack yourself a little bit in

380
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,440
terms of what you know you're
good at and what you know you

381
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,440
struggle with.
And then look for the reflective

382
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:50,840
stuff to be like the first one,
isn't it?

383
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,320
Try to not just be scared of all
judgement at all.

384
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,320
Try to think to yourself, do you
know what actually this person

385
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,800
coming in is really good at X?
And if they give me feedback on

386
00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,280
that, I'm going to take it
seriously and I'm really going

387
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,560
to try and work on it and, and
try not to take it as a you

388
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,000
failed.
But it's more of a, we're

389
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,440
lifting you up together And just
having a bit more of a positive

390
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,440
approach just might help you
mentally yourself when you, when

391
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,680
you're just overwhelmed with the
fear of anyone coming in to look

392
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,520
at your room, you know, look at
what you do at any time, you

393
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:13,720
know, just try and break it down
a bit more.

394
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,880
Certainly absolutely.
Next one boundaries the Ashes

395
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,240
are on cricket.
We're talking about the

396
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,160
boundaries in the cricket field
exactly that yeah yeah, yeah.

397
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,280
Not enough of them in teacher.
Go on.

398
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,400
Well, we got a big.
Cricket fan, aren't you?

399
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,640
Yeah, boundaries I've put in
brackets, all lack of them.

400
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,360
So it's it's the idea that in
teaching this is such a huge

401
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,400
thing that we all struggle with
that is just it seems like

402
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,400
there's no boundaries to your
time whatsoever.

403
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,280
But we've talked about this a
lot.

404
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,120
Like what?
We're just limitless, are we?

405
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,560
It's just limitless.
So you need to span these

406
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:40,960
lessons when I just got to get
them done.

407
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,000
OK, it's Friday and it's for
Monday.

408
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,480
We've actually got them done.
I've also got 4 hours of marking

409
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:46,360
there.
Yeah, you just got to get it

410
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:47,040
done.
It's 5:00 PM.

411
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,240
You've got to get it done.
There's no boundaries whatsoever

412
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,240
as like a default.
And that's something you have to

413
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,040
learn.
When I was, when I started as a

414
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,640
teacher, I had absolutely 0
concept of boundaries.

415
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,720
I just expected like most jobs,
there'd be there to be like

416
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,960
built in boundaries.
If you get most jobs, it's like

417
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,560
you work between these hours and
actual boundaries and and you

418
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,319
don't do anything else.
Otherwise it's over time we have

419
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:09,400
to pay you.
Please don't do that unless

420
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,160
we've agreed it.
I expected that in teaching it

421
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,960
doesn't exist.
So you've got to set your own

422
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,000
boundaries.
The overarching point here is

423
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,800
you've got to work on and find
the boundaries that actually

424
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,359
work for you.
Otherwise you will get taken

425
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,960
advantage of completely.
You see it happening all the

426
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,839
time, like it's a, it's a steep
learning curve.

427
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:29,800
And for me, that learning curve
happened later in my career

428
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:33,040
because a lot of ECTS, newly
qualified teachers get into the

429
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,600
job and they want to throw
themselves into it, of course.

430
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,720
And then a few years down the
line, they're like, whoa, this

431
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,760
is unsustainable.
And then someone says to you a

432
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,280
few years down the line, oh,
yeah.

433
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,520
But a good teacher gives
everything to this job as a

434
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,920
vocation, and they remind you of
the commitment you gave two

435
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:47,120
years ago.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

436
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,200
As if that's relevant.
Like as if that wasn't extra.

437
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,440
And that's where you have to
have the backbone.

438
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,320
And I come back to the same for
this episode.

439
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,680
Control the controllables.
If you don't erect these

440
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,320
boundaries yourself and put them
up and be clear why you're doing

441
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,520
it and be fair with them and
understand that you're probably

442
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,360
already doing more.
You're already doing extra to

443
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:09,200
your directed time.
You're already planning and

444
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,760
you're already marking in your
own time, but have clear

445
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,440
boundaries about it.
I'm going to give you this, but

446
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,560
I'm not giving you any more.
Be strong, be clear, be fair,

447
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,040
build them.
It helps with longevity.

448
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:24,160
I lasted longer as a teacher
because I had these strict

449
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,560
boundaries that sometimes, of
course, I did extra, of course I

450
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,120
did, because sometimes it was
manageable even when I did that.

451
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,680
But for the vast majority of the
time, I did X because I set it

452
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,680
as X.
That's my goal, That's what I'm

453
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,880
doing.
It's a job.

454
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,680
You're allowed to like your job.
You're allowed to enjoy your

455
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,320
job.
Your job can be very rewarding

456
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,080
and give you lots back, but it's
a job.

457
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,520
Yeah, and it needs to boundary,
needs to have boundaries.

458
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,560
Seems like a simple tip, but you
know, but it is important

459
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:54,440
because those people don't do
it.

460
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:55,400
So I felt like I had to mention
it.

461
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,960
The next one is, is, is
comparison culture.

462
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,120
I know this seems in on the
surface a bit like the things

463
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:02,880
we've talked about before, but I
do think within teaching, there

464
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,720
is a huge, huge issue of
comparison culture.

465
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,840
We're on Instagram a lot and I
know we see and have seen over

466
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,920
the years a lot of things where
it's like this is like the

467
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,000
perfect world, classic Instagram
versus reality.

468
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,600
It's very easy to go on
Instagram or literally not even

469
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,000
using social media, just looking
at the teachers in your school

470
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,280
and, and compare yourself with
them at every minute detail of

471
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,280
their skill set.
And we've already established

472
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,440
that teachers have to put on 19
different hats and do 55

473
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,680
different jobs.
Do you know what I mean?

474
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,840
And so it is, it is very
understandable that people then

475
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,880
go, right, I'm going to compare
myself with every single aspect

476
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,360
of that teacher, their ability
not just to teach and be in the

477
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,600
classroom, but also all of these
other little jobs and hats that

478
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:44,760
we put on.
I'm going to compare myself

479
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,320
against those as well.
And I feel like it's a huge

480
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,120
negative driving force in the
world of teaching.

481
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:50,320
Can I ask you a question about
this then?

482
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:53,320
Because I mentioned earlier
about one of the biggest, I

483
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,920
think the biggest accelerators
of me becoming a better teacher

484
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,040
was me going into other
classrooms and watching people

485
00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:58,720
teach.
Yeah.

486
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,200
And I was directly comparing.
I was going, well, I don't do

487
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,480
that at this point, and this is
great.

488
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,400
I'm going to go away and do it.
So where's the line for you?

489
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,040
You know what, what, what do you
think it's OK to compare

490
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,760
yourself with?
And what do you think maybe

491
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,840
it's, it's a negative like it,
it's bad to compare.

492
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,000
Where would that be for?
You, that's a good question.

493
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,840
I think it boils down to one of
the first things we said in this

494
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,240
episode, which is you need to
kind of boils down to boundaries

495
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,360
as well.
You need to have clear goals in

496
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,480
terms of what you're working on.
You can't scatter gun the

497
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,040
approach when you just look at
everything at once and say, oh,

498
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,800
they're just better than me.
You go down to the imposter

499
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,200
syndrome level and you just
start thinking I'm terrible when

500
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,960
you have a clear goal of like, I
want to improve this thing.

501
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,960
I've set this as my target.
I'm aware there's other things I

502
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,400
could be working on, but I'm not
thinking about them.

503
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:41,840
I'm going to go and watch this
teacher.

504
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,360
I'm going to compare myself to
this teacher for this one thing

505
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,400
because with the active goal of
I'm going to take something away

506
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:48,720
and improve my practise over
time.

507
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,560
That's a positive, reflective
approach.

508
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,800
When you're being self critical
and it falls into that camp is

509
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,680
when you're just looking at
everything at once and say I

510
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,800
can't do these things.
That's not helpful.

511
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,480
Do you think the size of the
comparison comes into play as

512
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,200
well?
Because in terms of there's

513
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,520
little things before where you
know, if, if we're talking about

514
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,960
literal behaviour management of
a class that's huge, that

515
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,640
absolutely I think needs your
approach of let's just focus on

516
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,680
behaviour management.
I could go in and think this

517
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,800
teaches better than me in 5
different ways, but let's just

518
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,560
think about behaviour management
and what can I magpie and try in

519
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,520
my classroom?
I think that's key.

520
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,560
However, I do also think there
are some things that are much

521
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,720
smaller that you can magpie at
any point.

522
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,560
Like I, I remember walking
through classrooms and seeing

523
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,760
literally just the station, This
was so arbitrary, a station

524
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,400
where it had a box of pencils
that needed sharpening, A

525
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,480
sharpener and a box for the
sharpened pencils afterwards.

526
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,080
And all it was was the teacher
just said, yeah, it's there.

527
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,960
Have we got a spec up in the
minutes or a child, you know,

528
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,000
doesn't necessarily want to go
outside for 5 minutes or it's

529
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,720
cold or they're in, they can do
that job if they want to do it.

530
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,240
And it's like a self-sustaining
job and, and a big part of my

531
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,400
practise of trying to a
classroom become more

532
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,200
self-sustaining in terms of
children doing jobs and things.

533
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,640
That's the kind of thing that I
think comparison is fantastic to

534
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,840
do definitely all of the time
because it's so low stakes and

535
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,720
you're never gonna take that
personally, are you really?

536
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,520
All I'm gonna think at that
level is just that's a cool

537
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,480
little thing.
I'll take it.

538
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:17,160
So does the size come into play,
or what is it that actually

539
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,960
matters?
Yeah, I think those are really

540
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,840
good examples, genuinely of
comparisons where it matters.

541
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,240
They're small efficiency tips of
ways you can be more efficient

542
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,960
in your job.
And that's all great.

543
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:32,840
The toxic cycle of comparison
culture, to me is when people,

544
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,600
and this happens a lot, are
trying to match the strengths of

545
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:37,760
everybody else.
Yeah.

546
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:41,240
And forgetting that not every
single one of them has all of

547
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,760
their strength.
It's not like they're all this

548
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,560
one homogeneous BLOB of teachers
that all have all of the

549
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,520
strengths, all of them.
Like, it's like you kind of

550
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,520
ironically have to accept if
you're going to that teacher

551
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,920
because they're really good at
this one thing.

552
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,760
Yeah, you're going to this other
teacher because they're really

553
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,800
good at this one thing.
It's like, well, just comparing

554
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,800
them to you're saying that
teacher isn't as good as that.

555
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:00,680
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?

556
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,640
Like yeah, no one has all of the
thanks, yet we hold ourselves

557
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,560
accountable to that.
That's the toxicity of

558
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,760
comparison culture.
I need to be as good as that

559
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,600
teacher.
ABCD and E are all of their

560
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:11,720
respective best.
Things.

561
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,560
Yeah, that's such.
So you're saying, what is your

562
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,040
bar that high that you're saying
I'm going to be better than all

563
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,000
five of those teachers combined
because I'm going to take their

564
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,440
their individual strengths and
I'm going to have all of them?

565
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,840
Yeah, it's not going to happen.
You can see how these are kind

566
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,560
of links of imposter syndromes.
Exactly.

567
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,560
Yeah, it's all linked.
That's kind of why I wanted to

568
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,880
start there, because
realistically all of this links

569
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,200
to Imposter, the idea that all
of these barriers and struggles

570
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,360
of teachers and lead you down
the route of thinking I'm not

571
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:37,360
good enough.
So, so to summarise the the

572
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,760
point here being is accept that
you can have shrimps and

573
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,960
weaknesses and still work on
your weaknesses, but understand

574
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,560
that it's important not, not
everyone's the same.

575
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,440
It's never ever going to happen.
There will always be someone out

576
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,040
there who's better at behaviour
management than you.

577
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,840
There will always be someone out
there who's better at pedagogy.

578
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,200
Maybe I understand different
ways of teaching.

579
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,800
There's always someone who's
better at planning, but it's not

580
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:57,760
the same person.
Yeah.

581
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,920
And you're going to be better
than them at something.

582
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:00,880
Exactly.
And it's OK.

583
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,480
And you should lean into that.
My final point this is lean into

584
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,320
the things you're good at.
Everyone has their own teaching

585
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,200
style and it's there's not
necessarily one size of fits

586
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,480
all.
You might really admire a

587
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,440
teacher because they're very,
very good at doing something.

588
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,680
It doesn't actually mean that is
the only and best way of doing

589
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:15,440
it.
Genuinely.

590
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,080
You might have your own teaching
style that you now shun because

591
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,880
it's not the same as them, but
you're getting the same output.

592
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,360
It's just a different way of
doing it.

593
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,560
Like you've just got to lean
into yourself a bit more, give

594
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,280
yourself a bit more credit where
it's deserved and one thing at a

595
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:28,560
time.
Maybe you can look at a strength

596
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,080
of a teacher, accept that that's
their strength and get some

597
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,640
tips, some efficiency tips.
You said some little things,

598
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,520
doesn't have to be the high
stakes things all the time.

599
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,720
No, certainly fantastic.
So next one, this was

600
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,040
interesting.
I want you to expand on this a

601
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,600
bit.
Fear of parent confrontation.

602
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,440
How's this like a barrier?
What's this to do with imposter?

603
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,520
When I was thinking about the
struggles of a teacher, I was

604
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,480
like, I can't not mention this
because I know from my

605
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,920
experience and the experience of
loads of people I've talked to,

606
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,240
it's just a common thing that
like you think about how many

607
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,640
people joke about they hate
doing phone calls, they don't

608
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,040
want to do phone calls.
And just generally speaking to

609
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,040
parents in the day, people can
get really anxious about it and

610
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,160
really scared.
Scared than a meme or two about

611
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,640
that.
Situation absolutely right And I

612
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,760
just think I don't know I just
think we should talk about like

613
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,440
what?
So how is it a barrier?

614
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,000
How does it affect your teaching
then?

615
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,960
Like does it affect, is it just,
I don't like this thing or can

616
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,680
it seep into your classroom
practise?

617
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,400
Like what is the power of a
annoying parent that that really

618
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,160
is kind of in your head?
What is it?

619
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,120
How does it manifest?
They have a lot of power and,

620
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,880
and I can give you my own
personal experiences here of, of

621
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,360
how a, how a parent interaction
can genuinely affect how, how

622
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,800
because I have had parents in
the past that I am genuinely

623
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,440
scared off in terms of I don't
want them to be annoyed at me.

624
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,440
I don't want them to because I
think they're gonna complain.

625
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,920
I think gonna make my life hell
or whatever.

626
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,600
Was it was it a T Rex it?
Was it T Rex and their son was

627
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:48,960
yours?
It's.

628
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,120
Quite scary.
That would scare me.

629
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,520
It's very scary, you know, sort
of breathing fire and everything

630
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,000
you know wasn't, you know.
All that you could get away from

631
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,120
doing homework.
Yeah.

632
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,840
You leave me.
Yours don't have to do homework.

633
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,320
Yeah, but.
Sure, standard classroom.

634
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,480
Sorry.
Yeah, but genuinely, like I, I

635
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,840
have, I, I, I feel bad admitting
this, but it's true.

636
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,720
And I think we should just be
reflective and be real.

637
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:09,960
But we know.
You're bad at teaching.

638
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:11,640
Thank you.
I'm not an impostor.

639
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,240
No, I'm joking.
There's there's definitely been

640
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,480
situations where I have
considered the way I talk to or

641
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,960
interact with a child based on
what I think that parent will do

642
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,320
or parent react.
And there's definitely

643
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,280
situations where a child has got
away with something maybe more

644
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,360
than another child would have
done in the classroom because I

645
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:31,440
was too scared more, more scared
of the what would happen when

646
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,360
the parents find out.
Because I know, not because I

647
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,600
agree with them, because I
didn't want the hassle of the

648
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,920
parent.
And I look back and I think

649
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,360
that's terrible.
That should never, that should

650
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:41,440
never be a deciding factor as to
what is simply right or wrong.

651
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,480
So what you would have done was
the right thing to do.

652
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,480
You weren't going overboard, but
you just thought it's not worth.

653
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,880
It exactly that or I or I tailor
my words differently because I

654
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,960
didn't want that because I know
that kid goes home and and

655
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,200
manufacture.
Right.

656
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,720
So what would be your advice
then?

657
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,960
Someone listening to this in a
similar situation, tricky

658
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,520
parents in the class noticing
that it's affecting what they're

659
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,400
doing in the classroom.
Is your advice to tailor what

660
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:01,840
you do in the classroom for an
easy life?

661
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,560
Or is your advice to, yeah,
ignore it, just do it, take the

662
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,960
Flack, and then maybe
potentially actually your

663
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,600
well-being gets worse and you
get more, more Flack from the

664
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,120
parent.
How'd you go about that?

665
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,560
Certainly not the first one.
Not the one I did because I tell

666
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,720
you what, it came back and bit
me around the bum in the long

667
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,560
run, because Jaws did.
Jaws came around bit Miller bum

668
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,840
Godzilla was there, but
ultimately that parent then just

669
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,160
saw me as a bit of a pushover
right.

670
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,840
And and and ended up just being
annoying anyway any kind of

671
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,160
parents even though they were
still pulling out things.

672
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,320
I didn't even do these things.
You find yourself just

673
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,120
completely succumbing to them.
It's it was ridiculous.

674
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,240
Yeah, I learned that lesson the
hard way and then I stopped

675
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,800
doing and I started doing the
second thing, which was just

676
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,480
give yourself an like you're the
professional.

677
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,720
Yeah, I think we need to remind
ourselves of that sometimes and

678
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,600
you're surrounded by the
professionals, including your

679
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,440
leaders who are supposed to have
your back.

680
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,840
That's huge, isn't it right.
Get get them involved as quick

681
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,120
as possible.
That's one thing I'd say don't

682
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:49,040
you don't have to check bat
everything yourself.

683
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,080
Yeah.
You know, get them involved,

684
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,360
they might be able to help you
when it comes to those tricky

685
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:55,120
parent conversations.
And you've just got to stand

686
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:56,760
your ground.
I'm sorry, but This is why I've

687
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,520
made that decision.
And this is the rule in our

688
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,680
school.
And your son, your daughter was

689
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:01,960
doing this.
I sort of my own eyes.

690
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,680
I'm not having this discussion
anymore.

691
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:04,440
Sorry.
Yeah.

692
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:06,560
I think that's good advice.
It's hard to do.

693
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:07,640
It is hard.
It is really hard.

694
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,400
It's a tricky thing.
It's a big part of the start of

695
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,520
your career, I think is becoming
confident anyway, even with nice

696
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,880
parents.
So yeah, definitely getting

697
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,480
leadership involved.
You're a team, so that's huge.

698
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,240
I would agree.
This next one's really

699
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,800
interesting to me is we're
essentially calling you you.

700
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,000
We're talking about martyrdom
here.

701
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,120
And and we when we did our first
reels about martyrdom ever,

702
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,680
there was a lot of people who
were like, oh God, yeah, guys,

703
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,240
you're on the mark.
These people exist.

704
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,520
And there were quite a few
people who were a bit pissed

705
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,520
off, like as if to say, well,
it's just doing the best for the

706
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,000
kids.
Why would you have a go at those

707
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,200
kind of people, blah, blah,
blah.

708
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,200
Why is burnout identity and the
idea of wearing it as a badge of

709
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,120
honour and people in school kind
of walking around as if to say

710
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,000
yeah I was up till 9 on the
market last night, wasn't that

711
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,160
annoying but also loving the
fact they can say that.

712
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,400
Why is this a barrier?
What's the problem?

713
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,840
Because it's normalising
exhaustion, we're normalising

714
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,120
Bernard.
The the keyword there is

715
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,640
normalising.
It's not normal.

716
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,000
I don't.
If you want to wear it as a

717
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,560
badge of honour, call, I'll give
you whatever, walk away.

718
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,400
But if you start normalising it
for your score, making people

719
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,440
judge themselves, doing all of
the other things we've talked

720
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,240
about based on this now baseline
of, Oh yeah, you need to burn

721
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,400
yourself out and be completely
exhausted.

722
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,960
And, you know, surviving this
job for three years, that is the

723
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,000
most toxic thing I think that
teachers face nowadays is yeah,

724
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,880
burnout's normal and that's your
goal.

725
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,320
Strive for it.
It is the worst thing that's

726
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,440
happened to education.
My, my issue always was, it's,

727
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,640
it's so hard to articulate
because you've hit the nail on

728
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,960
the head.
And I feel like I'm going after

729
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,360
people who are trying to almost
do the best for the kids

730
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,360
sometimes, right?
But I'm going to go after them

731
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,400
anyway because I think it's a
problem.

732
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,120
If you have personally decided
to make teaching your entire

733
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,960
personality and life and getting
up at half five in the morning

734
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,760
to get in early and, and staying
late every night and being on

735
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,920
the Board of Governors and doing
4 clubs a week and spending your

736
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,760
weekends doing trips or booking
them or doing some enrichment

737
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,120
for the children, fine.
If you find solace in that and

738
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,040
you find meaning in that, that
is actually really good and

739
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,720
there's a lot of children
getting the benefit out of it.

740
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:23,800
The second, the very second that
you therefore think other people

741
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,840
aren't doing enough, or you
think that that should be the

742
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,560
bar, or you put it on someone
else or even let leadership put

743
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,720
on someone else.
You, as an example, you are part

744
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,680
of a huge problem and it's OK
for both to exist.

745
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,480
But if you're that person who
does all that and you hear your

746
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,000
leadership team saying what's up
though, there's lots of people

747
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,560
out there.
They get in at six and they this

748
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,560
kind of dedication we need and
they're going to be there.

749
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,880
Don't sit there proud and smug,
which I've seen happen.

750
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,800
Yeah, well, I do all that.
I mark really well.

751
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,160
So maybe we should all be
marking more.

752
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,240
No, we shouldn't.
Maybe the issue is that we're

753
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,720
expected to mark too much.
And just because you want to do

754
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,720
it and you think it's OK doesn't
mean it's acceptable.

755
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,000
Everyone else should do it.
Wind your neck in and understand

756
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,920
that because you have made it
your identity doesn't mean it's

757
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,880
not just a job for me still.
And I love teaching with all my

758
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:11,840
heart.
I miss it a lot.

759
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,560
We're going to do an episode, I
think in the future about things

760
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,480
we miss about teaching, even
just being out for a couple of

761
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:16,920
months.
But it is a job.

762
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,840
And yeah, that martyrdom really,
really in the last last few

763
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,320
years of my career really wound
me up.

764
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,720
Yeah, one thing you have to
recognise is that people's lines

765
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,680
are different as well, lines for
burnout based on mostly their

766
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:31,920
circumstances outside of the
job.

767
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,600
Some people's line for burnout
is way higher purely because

768
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,880
their life circumstances are
different, right?

769
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,080
Some people's life are burnout
is higher just because of the

770
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,040
way they are, their personality.
There's lots of reasons as to

771
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,320
why someone might get burned out
at a different point.

772
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,240
So the worst thing that happens
exactly what you said, when that

773
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,160
toxic person comes in with a
really high threshold for

774
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,680
burnout and expects everyone
else to do it.

775
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,200
It's like not only is what
you're saying ridiculous and

776
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,200
unattainable anyway, people's
burnout thresholds are already

777
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,040
lower than yours anyway.
Like they just can't even

778
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,480
physically do that.
And chronic burnout is

779
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,160
ultimately the reason this is so
bad is because it affects you

780
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,880
and how you perform in your job.
A burnt out teacher is not

781
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,960
delivering anywhere near as good
lessons or feedback to children

782
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,200
or being that support being that
emotional person in the

783
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,040
classroom.
Like you can't be that when

784
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,000
you're chronically burned out.
It just it isn't compatible.

785
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:27,560
The job itself at the baseline
is already hugely, it takes a

786
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,880
huge emotional toll on you, like
it's already massive and you can

787
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,120
get burnt out in this job
honestly just when just from

788
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,400
doing it at a standard level
with your fresh OPS a bit lower.

789
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,360
It's a hard job anyway.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

790
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:39,880
Yeah.
Something needs to be addressed.

791
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,080
So advice with that is just
realise that and and and call it

792
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,680
out and and don't let that be
your bar for sure.

793
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,560
Next one is a is a good one.
Decision fatigue.

794
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,440
Now this reminds me of a stat I
see a lot and it I'm not going

795
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,160
to like really cringes me out
when I see this.

796
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,200
So teachers making 1500 micro
decisions a day.

797
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,440
I know you can say it really,
really winds me up and I really

798
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,000
find it cringe worthy.
And I don't like it when

799
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,840
teachers say we make more
decisions than a brain surgeon

800
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,600
in a single day.
What is the point?

801
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,520
You try like, OK, I OK, I know
the point you're trying to make,

802
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,680
but but don't don't do that.
It's not brain surgery I'm

803
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,640
afraid.
When the micro decisions are

804
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,000
which colour pencil should I get
the kids to colour that in with

805
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,720
or there's levels to it.
Don't get me wrong, don't get me

806
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,200
wrong, making 1500 micro
decisions a day is tiring, it's

807
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,880
exhausting, it is never ending,
it is leading to burnout.

808
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,680
It is a thing that we should
talk about.

809
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:34,600
Don't compare it to a brain
surgery.

810
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,160
That's the ick, isn't it?
It's the fact that that could

811
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,720
have they could have really
picked any job ever.

812
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,040
And then some of thought.
I'll do this analogy.

813
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,720
I'll pick a brain surgeon
because that's the hardest.

814
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,280
Job, we'll just talk about the
amount of decisions.

815
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:44,680
You have to make exactly.
You don't have to go.

816
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,480
We make more decisions than a
brain, OK?

817
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,280
And and you know what, a lot of
those decisions will just come

818
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,880
naturally where, where I found
it tricky and I I very much got

819
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,560
decision fatigue.
Yeah.

820
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,640
Where's this a problem?
Yeah, that's really interesting.

821
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,200
It was more like, do you know
what a better term is?

822
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,320
Option paralysis I.
Think it's a very similarly.

823
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:02,920
A decision fatigue option
paralysis.

824
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,040
It's like the idea that there
are 5 things you could do,

825
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,120
right?
And you just, you don't know

826
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:10,600
which one to pick.
Or there's, there's six things

827
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,239
you have to do and you don't
know where to start, right?

828
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,000
Like those kinds of situations,
What I mean like making

829
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,320
decisions.
Slightly different, do you know?

830
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:17,960
What?
Yeah, it's fine.

831
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,639
I make decisions all the time,
which everyone does.

832
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:21,679
You are still deciding the order
to do stuff and then put

833
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:22,560
priority.
Exactly.

834
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,719
But when, when at the end of the
day and you think, right, I've

835
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,480
got five hours of admin tasks to
do and I want to go home in two

836
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,880
hours, where do I start?
That feeling is honestly was

837
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,120
like one of my least favourite
feelings because I hated the

838
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,960
idea that I already know I can't
get the jobs done that I need to

839
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,639
get done.
Like from the get go, it's like

840
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,920
I physically have two hours and
there's five hours of stuff to

841
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,239
do.
So I'm already accepting that

842
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,080
I'm going to be not even doing
three of these things.

843
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,840
Like what do I do?
That's where I really struggled.

844
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,639
And I know you struggle with
this as well because I remember

845
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:51,280
one of the big things you did to
overcome this and it helped me

846
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,000
as well.
And it sounds so stupidly

847
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,080
simple.
You got A to do list.

848
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,920
Oh, it's right here and you.
Just right here, literally in my

849
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,880
everyday life.
Just tick box list.

850
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,480
So simple, but yeah.
You prioritise, right?

851
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,400
You're prioritising these things
so that you can make you can

852
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,920
make those choices.
Option paralysis is a thing when

853
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,960
you just don't know where to
start or you don't really know

854
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,720
what the priority is.
And then you and then you,

855
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,000
ironically, you get less done
because you spend so much time

856
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,160
thinking about should I do this?
Then you flick back to the one

857
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,080
actually do this for a bit.
No, I'm doing, I've got that

858
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,080
display.
I forgot about the display.

859
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,120
I've got to do Write it all
down.

860
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,800
As you feel and think these
things, write them down.

861
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,760
And then you can just go to your
list, like, right, come on,

862
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,080
let's have a look at this, what
he's doing.

863
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,000
Oh yeah, I must do that first.
Yeah, go and do it.

864
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,800
It becomes more obvious.
And you know, I always say to

865
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,280
people, there'll be stuff on my
list that's there for two months

866
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,840
and that's, that's fine because
I know that's how it works.

867
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,200
And I would have forgotten about
that job otherwise.

868
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,000
Yeah, so hopefully this sums up
the daily struggles for

869
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,360
teaching.
I really wanted to do an episode

870
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,480
where we just acknowledge mostly
that these are things that we

871
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,440
all do so we can people listen
to this thing.

872
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,360
Yeah, okay, I'm not alone.
I'm not the only person who's

873
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,760
scared of being judged and
worried about what parents might

874
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,640
say and also has imposter
syndrome.

875
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,760
I feel like everything we sort
of established as we went and

876
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,000
we, it all kind of links back to
this idea of imposter syndrome,

877
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,320
the idea that we're not doing a
good enough job or someone else

878
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,520
is doing a better job than us
and why can't we possibly do it?

879
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,840
And a lot of solutions along the
way.

880
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,280
I think if we acknowledge all
these things, it can just make

881
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:15,840
us feel a lot better about
ourselves.

882
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,440
And maybe there's some
actionable things.

883
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,560
You can walk away and be like,
right, I'm going to work on this

884
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,920
one particular tip that Dylan
said.

885
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,880
And then I'm going to think
about something else.

886
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,960
Rather than getting that
decision fatigue of or option

887
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,640
paralysis of, I need to work on
all of the eight things that

888
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,360
they said.
In this area of ending an

889
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,960
option.
So when you're working on tip

890
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,040
number 123456 and seven at the
same time, you can think about

891
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,560
tip #8, which was optional.
Paralysis.

892
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,840
No, I think that's really useful
and like we always say with this

893
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,360
podcast, we strive to be able to
give actionable points and ideas

894
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,440
of what you can do, and
hopefully we've done that as

895
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,240
well for you.
If you've made it this far, why

896
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:49,840
don't leave us a review?
It really helps us out.

897
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,280
Share it with someone you think
might find it useful.

898
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,600
And I'm not going to do it,
Hayden.

899
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,000
Don't worry, I'll just I'll say
it for next time instead, so

900
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,160
we'll just sign off about me
asking A.

901
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,200
Question.
Can I say something at the end?

902
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:58,680
Nope.
See ya.