Ep 141: Answering Your Questions: Careers After Teaching, The Homeschooling Boom & Teacher Training Improvements

0:00 Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Teach Sleep Repeat. My name is Dylan. And my name is Hayden. And I'm getting higher and higher every time, and I've already reached the peak as to how high I can go. That's sure that's not as high as you can go. Well, I'm not gonna do it on the podcast anyway. Every single question from today's question and answer episode is from. The. WhatsApp Community, which you can join down below. There's a link in the description to this podcast episode. It's free. Why wouldn't you get the links directly to your phone every single time they drop? And importantly, when it comes to these types of episodes, you get submission priority when it comes to your question and answers every single question. Hayden from today's episode, just like last week, was from our lovely listeners in the WhatsApp Community. So join if you want to get involved. You're actually going to join in with some scheme this week. I'm going.

0:44 To do one, I'll do the first one. After that, I think I'll be a bit fatigued. You can take it away, is that right? Sure, yeah, go and go for it. It's a fairly long 1, so you know I'm doing the bulk of the reading here today. How do you deal with not gelling with a teacher? I am a one to one TA for two kids in a year, one class and the main class teacher is very passive aggressive. If I say anything positive about the kids, either one to one or other kids, it's met with eye rolls and a stare. Even the kids are picking up on it. It's my first TA job and the teacher in question has over a decade experience and has a big following on social media so I don't want to rock the boat too much but I'm sure if I can take can't if I can take it anymore. I love the job otherwise and SLT and SENCO seem to be happy with what I'm doing so far.

1:25 Any tips appreciated. Well, firstly, feedback when you're reading it was good into halfway you start stumbling over basic words. So yeah, yeah, not bad. I'd say working towards the expected standards. That's all right. Not bad. Working towards. Yeah. Secondly, just as a side note, made me laugh at the start of this. I'm a one to one TA for two kids. I was like, that just sums up that sums up the education system right now. Is this these these kids need a 1 to 1. So what we've got is 1 adult to one kid, and then another kid and then another one and then another. It's like just not enough money to go around. So firstly, anyone to want TA is out there. Like the person sending this in you are quite often doing God's work because you are given unofficially A1 to 1 to kind of tick up a box for what a child desperately needs. But you're not necessarily remotely supported in that.

2:06 And you might be given multiple children to do 1 to one. It's just such a weird paradox we've got there. But anyway, I found this question really interesting for a few reasons. I'm sure we'll come on to the social media thing in a minute. I thought maybe she was describing you. So I knew that you're quit. I'm not done you once, but what I thought was a really, really, really interesting point here, and we get this a lot actually, is what about if you just simply don't get on with a member of staff that you have to work with? And I feel like this kind of transcends school a little bit. But I guess the point here is it is a problem when the kids start to pick up on it. I think you don't have to like and get on with everyone who you work with. It's literally impossible. But there's got to be a certain level of professionalism where even if maybe you don't go on with a person, you have to just get over it and just get on with it. And what I'm saying here is more to the other person in this respect.

2:53 You're being a bit arsy with them rolling your eyes, huffing and puffing and the kids are picking up on it. I think this TA is well in their right just to go to their line manager and just say, look, I feel this way. I think this is happening. Like she said here, I don't want to rock the boat. Yeah, yeah. OK. So clearly, I clearly doesn't want to make a big issue of it. But it does get to a point where if you're feeling undermined in the classroom that I think, yeah, you can open a conversation about it and just say, look, I'm noticing this, maybe drop in and see and we'll notice if behaviours change at all or. But I think it's worth bringing up, yeah. Definitely. I think there's even maybe a step before that. And this, this does depend on who you are, I suppose. Like some people will be like, Nah, there's no way I'm doing this. And other people do you know what? Just a bit of bravery maybe of just having that conversation with the person as well. If you think you can, then it might be a situation where you think, no, I need to just go to my line manager. This is not the right environment. I don't know exactly, but there are situations where I think you can just say, do you know what?

3:42 I'm not going to escalate this too much yet. I'm going to give this person a chance. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. And I'm just going to have a real human adult conversation with them and say, look, I've noticed this, this happened a few times. And you're not being, you know, you're, you're, you're being as polite as possible to not invoke anything else. I've noticed this, this happened a few times. You've rolled your eyes. I've noticed the kids are noticing it. It's making me feel a bit awkward. Is there a, is there a problem? Is there anything I'm doing wrong in, in the classroom that you you'd like me to work on? Or is it, you know, something that I don't know about? I just want to open that conversation because obviously I want us to get on really well because we're here for the kids ultimately, and we should have a professional relationship. I just want to make sure you're not being shitty. Yeah, maybe that's how that bit, but like, and I think I would start there most of the time, but I can definitely imagine some situations where I'm like, Nah, I'm not having that conversation with this person because of the way they've been behaving. I'm just going to go and speak to someone else. Yeah, for sure.

4:28 Especially when it's your first TA job, like, you know, it's the first time you've been in the school. It isn't normal. I'll say that now. It's not normal to teach you huffing and puffing and kind of undermining you, especially if you're praising the children. I think that's a shame. But yeah, I think most people, for example, let's just say I, I did this by accident, even to my teaching assistant, and I really didn't mean to be doing it. But maybe that's just the way I was coming across. I would appreciate a teaching assistant coming to me to talk about it. And at least then I think maybe I'd feel personally attacked for a second. Maybe I'd get my back up immediately because that's just a natural reaction as the teacher in question. But I think in the long run, I'd really appreciate that open dialogue because I'd feel like if if you felt that way in my classroom, I'd want to know about that because I don't want you to feel that way. Obviously, I don't want the children to feel uncomfortable. I don't want the staff at all to feel like they're treading on egg shells around me whatsoever.

5:13 So yeah, I think opening up a dialogue, it's a really powerful way of doing that. The other part of this was, you know, a big, a big following on social media and stuff. And I don't know, I just, I guess we're, we're leaning into, I have no idea who this is at all. I'm not remotely trying to say it's this person or that person, but I do find it interesting. It's it leans into for me, that social media kind of outward presentation of life. And it's not necessarily always representing maybe what you're like as a person to work with and what your reality is. And I can, I can just imagine for a second, you know, if teachers at the start of their career, especially or their training go online and see all these posts from, from creators, they will start to form a view of teaching before they even experience it. And we're guilty of this as well. I think like we're, we're guilty of it both ways, where we might say, Oh yeah, this is a toxic thing to think about. Oh yeah.

6:02 Make sure you have your back up and ready here and to to defend yourself. Lots of people will go into schools. Well, you don't need to do that. Yeah. And they'll never have to experience that. They will never have to experience it. And I guess we're moulding their opinion of teaching before they even get into it. And, and that can be problematic for sure. I'd like to think anyone who listens to our, you know, actual podcast or more than a minute of our content online would realise we are quite balanced, I think, in what we say. But yeah, just trying to back over to you from your experience because you're not really in the social media world too much. What's your kind of? View an opinion of the teacher sphere online. Like do you think it gives an accurate representation of the job or does it glorify it? Does it glamorise it or does it make it feel like it's worse? I don't think it is very accurate. And, and the only reason I think that, and I guess I can use us as a bit of analogy here, is if you think about even the clips we put out, right, the ones that do well, it's kind of not up to us what does well. Like obviously we can limit it, make good content is obviously a thing.

6:55 But sometimes it's like, yeah, all the toxic clips are getting really pushed. And now the average Joe who's just maybe stumbling across a few of our clips is always seeing us talk about toxic SLT and thinking, oh, cool, so schools are really toxic to work in. Leaders are horrible. So no, no, we don't. We don't think that. We actually don't think that at all. And actually it's just that the other clips didn't really get pushed. And you haven't listened to our long form podcast, but we talk about it more. I think that happens on the sort of global scale. You know, you just see what social media pushes sometimes. I think that alone is already bad enough in terms of not giving you a proper representation. But also people, creators obviously are going to play up to what gets, what gets likes, what gets engagement because that's part of what you're doing. Like you're, you know, you're making content for social media. So yeah, I don't think it's the perfect representation. I know there was that time and maybe it's still happening. I don't know, people.

7:39 I feel like people had a name for it where it was like toxic positivity, where it was always like people are showing off the most unreal expectations of like, oh, yeah, this is how you can be a good teacher to just do these things with your displays and do these things at home and make these little things. And then the kids will like you. And it's like, whoa, whoa. I tell you what, Let's like people are going to be feeling rubbish about themselves when, when if they think that every teacher is doing this. I feel like that was an era on social media. Everyone was like, oh, can we just bring this down to like realism for a bit, you know, and. That's what we tried to do and then we get rinse for being negative. You can't win. So yeah, the the social media game, you really can't win. But we've got do is just be true to yourself. I think as much as you can. Yeah. And I do think, yeah, sometimes what people out there is it's it's never real life, is it?

8:20 Let's be let's be real. Even the most realistic version of what you see in social media is still curated. Yeah, they they still pick the one take out of seven good takes across the day they want to use. They they still took their phone on the tripod into their classroom with a ring light, put it up, set it up, turn the light back off, walked out of the room, then walk back in again as if they're walking in for the first time, catching them walk into their classroom. It's all fake. That's what we do, yeah. And I have nothing against that. Yeah. That's just, that is just how you make content. This is what you do. But yeah. So what's the rich market? Wait, wait, wait. We'll do. I'll call back in a second. One second. Just gonna set my tripod, Cristiano Ronaldo. So it's not real. It's not real, I'm afraid. Yeah, just take it with a pinch of salt. But yeah, open up that dialogue I think. That's yeah, definitely with this here, just going back to this person here is you're in a tough situation. It's not nice.

9:03 It probably will make you, it feels personal. I would recommend if you can have that, have an actual conversation with that person. They'll appreciate, but hopefully appreciate you not going straight to your line manager. But if you don't feel like that's appropriate, then obviously do actually go to your line manager and have that conversation because it needs to be sorted. It's not acceptable, it's not professional. So yeah, it you know, it can't just go on. OK. Next question Favourite year group to? Teach. Very good question. I will admit in my 10 year career I have only taught 2 year groups. I very much just went back and forth between year 4. I did year 4, then year 6, then back to year 4 and then I spent the rest of the last five years of my career. In year 6. I got trapped and people often say the year 6 trapped. Once you're there, it's hard to. So which one did you prefer to ask the question? I'm just thinking, actually I'm I'm it's fine just forming my thoughts on these two year groups. It's fine to answer a question you want me to ask you rather than one.

9:51 Actually, my answer is the 2 best year groups are year 4 and year 6. And I was like, that's a bit of a cop out isn't it? I think I prefer year 4. If I had to pick between those two, I would pick year 4. And I do genuinely think that is the best year group. I think particularly when you work in a, in a Junior School, which we've always done year three, I'm like, it's the start of key stage 2. And if you're in a Junior School, they are like new at the school. I don't want to be doing that way too much work. Year 6. The other end is really, really nice, like in terms of the kids maturity and like just having a genuinely like funny moments with the kids. It's it's like absolutely peak for that. But the SAS does kind of just ruin everything in terms of the pressure and stuff that it puts on Year 5. It's the one before Year 6 and they often get put under a lot of pressure I think to get the kids like that's ready, even though it's not that year group yet.

10:34 Whereas Year 4 is like that sweet spot. The kids are just a little bit older. They're not still like like in Year 3. They're a bit a little bit babyish. Year 4, they've got a bit of personality coming through. They're funny. The pressure's off. I feel like you get left alone a lot more in Year 4 and you can just have such a nice year now. You spent most of your career in Year 4, didn't you? So I'm wondering if you're also going to pick Year 4 here? I did have my nine years, one less than you fine, my nine years teacher in six years or in year 4. Yeah, I did. I did one year in Year 5. No, sorry. I did two years in Year 5 and one year in year 3. So I did 3-4 and five across 4's. Absolutely my favourite as well. 55's underrated a little bit. I think it's just it's just slightly from they, you know, they become more they just become closer to teenagers.

11:15 Sounds ridiculous. 4 is that sweet spot of their pure innocence and like love for learning is still there, like without you having having to do much just have to be like a nice room to be in for the kids and they are there with you all the way. But like old enough to kind of get a few more jokes. You want to start a bit more sarcasm? 4 was amazing. 5 was good, though I did really enjoy year five. Year 3 again, I did it in a Junior School and you just, you just lose the first time. You lose the first time to kind of just like embedding your routines, getting them to just behave the way you want them to behave because it's a brand new for them, getting them used to the school, getting them embedded in the culture. You know, I remember before I moved to year 3, my year 3 colleagues would say things like, Oh my God, it. It literally took half my maths lesson for them to set up their maths book.

11:56 And I would always be like, yeah, all right, that's funny. You're clearly exaggerating though, but OK. Yeah, bloody year three. You're going on about that again. I went to year 30. My goodness me. It took half the lesson to write the date I've. Not been in it, I don't believe. You I know, and I wouldn't believe me if I was you in this situation mean it took half I just. Don't know by writing a letter a minute. On literally because like half the kids are not even just sat in their seats, the advocate thought they're wandering around doing something. They can't use a ruler to do a margin. They can't write things down. They can't underline stuff. I promise you. Like, let me be really realistic. Let me think about it. Like half, maybe even it's too much. But it genuinely, I remember looking at the clock and thinking, Oh my goodness, it's actually taken 25 minutes from from them, from them by the start of the lesson to them being ready to do the lesson because their books are all set up and we know what we're doing.

12:43 That stuff. I promise you, I promise you. And it was just like, I couldn't believe it. And I was like, OK, it's real. And that's Year 3. Yeah, well, and again, I think I do think it being a Junior School doesn't necessarily help because you just have different routines and expectations and maybe they didn't even do that at all ever until then. Year 3 potentially, and there might be good reason for that. I'm not saying it's good or bad, I'm just saying the fact is it definitely took that long. And yeah, we're key stage too heavy because I've always worked in junior schools. You've mostly work in junior schools. So when we're saying our favourite year group, I think 4 is really good, when you're in there key stage 2. Talking about early years and key stage 1, I think all we can briefly talk about is how I have no desire to go and do it and I have the utmost respect for people in key stage 1 and early years. I think it's it is exhausting. I did a bit of training in year 1 I remember and it's the most mentally exhausted I've ever been. And even the pay off of maybe there's less marking down there. It almost was like I'll take the bit of marking because I am done in at the end of.

13:38 The day is that is that it? Then I want to dig deeper into this like is that the only reason that you don't want to you wouldn't do key stage 1? Is it just the fact that it's just too mentally exhausting or is there? More now I'm, I'm being really dramatic because actually, do you know what I would, I would actually try it. And I remember we, we went around to school as maths leads and we got, we had a tour of a school and we were having a maths meeting after, but we had like a tour and it was a through school. We went into a nursery. Yeah, yeah. We saw the little kids and I remember being like, Oh my God, they're so sweet. They're so lovely. But it's, it's just intense. The tends to be more adults down lowering the school, which kind of shares a bit of that burden. But I just think like I'm going to leave the experts to that because they've got, like I said, continuous provision in place. There's play going on. It's a whole lot of learning that's really good for the kids that I don't really feel expert in. I'm like, you know what, you, I'm going to stay in my lane. You crack on.

14:22 You're doing a fantastic job. That is, I'm not even necessarily completely against. It it's, it's the expert thing isn't it? I think that summarises because I always thought to myself, why do I not want to teach in key situ? Am I just like what? What is the reason? Because I clearly have a preference for teaching slightly older kids like 456. Why? Because I love teaching and and in my opinion, teaching is like more pure the lower you get into like teaching a year one to read like letters and words and showing like like the underpinning basics foundations of maths. You're getting to take them from not knowing anything about it to understanding that how addition works and counting and all the different ways. I was like, that is like an an amazing part of teaching where I feel like I should, I should love that. But the thought of going to be a year 1 teacher, I'm just like, Nah, that's rough. That's tough.

15:04 And I think that's what it is. It is literally just that I spent my career in in key stage 2. The longer I was in it, the more I felt like, this is my thing. This is what I'm good at. And the more I felt like I'd be an imposter if I went down into year one. If I did, I'm sure after a year you'd, you'd get used to it. You'd feel that, you'd feel like you're good. But yeah, right now I'm like, oh, no, I couldn't do that because it's a different job. It's just not even the same thing. Like the that pedagogy is like, OK, cool. We're all teaching, but holistically it's just anyone who says it's the same. It's just not, it's just not like, and if we're thinking about continuous revision and play being more weighted to being important down those year groups, it's completely different to what I'm used to doing. That is completely different to what I'm used to doing. Whether it's right or wrong, I just don't have the expertise in that to do it. And yeah, I suppose the only thing I will say is for me, it's the same going upwards as well.

15:46 I mean, secondary school, I just think to myself, you know, I'll let you do your thing up there, I'll let you do your thing down there. I'll stick to year 4 where there's no end of year assessment. That's regards to any kind of data. This is the timetable check which we just practise. Anyway, all good, give me a four every day of the week. Same. I I think so as well, right, Next question, would you ever want to be on a show like Educating Yorkshire? What's your opinion on shows like it and do you think it's positive for the teaching community? Well, I didn't have, you know, I've been on TV quite a few times. Have you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A quick show, I think Educating Yorkshire. I've not watched it this this first time around because it's got, it's gone back, hasn't it? It's got a lot of the same. I think it's the same school maybe, but it's got the some of the same teachers who are in different roles now.

16:26 I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing to get people like seeing what's going on in our schools. I think that is a positive thing. And for me personally, I've actually, I've actually read a review of Educating Yorkshire this time around before I even watched it, because I'm just interested to see how it's being received. And the headline of the review was, you know, in a world of, you know, schools being bashed and next generation being being seen as useless and all, they're just, they're just in front of the screen constantly and they're never going to have anything to do with the real world. Oh my goodness me. He was basically saying this is a show that really celebrates the next generation and really, really portrays him in a nice way. And I was like, fantastic, because that's the main thing I'd want to be getting out of a show like this. Sure, the teachers, sure, teachers are going to get a bad rap almost all of the time, right? It's just what's going to happen. I like the fact shows that this can show the hard work and dedication and and love for their students that loads of teachers generally have and how hard they work to give the best possible outcomes for these kids. And I was thinking back to that, that famous video of the child with the stutter and the teacher who worked with this child to be able to speak and by the end came up with a solution when he was speaking to the whole assembly. And I was like, Oh my God, that is teaching. That's why that's why it's the best job in the world. And any kind of show that can highlight that, I think it's a really good thing and you have to highlight the bad stuff as well.

17:44 For me, it's all about shows that educate in Yorkshire. It just has to be realistic and there are always going to be some people who look at a shot at that and say that's not realistic. My school was much worse and they're always going to be people looking that's not realistic. You're just bashing the next generation. The kids aren't really like that. My kids fine so OK this is this is when you kind of probably know you've made a good show if you're annoying people on both extremes yeah yeah, it's like we probably give it an accurate representation of what's going on so So my gut my gut with a show at Educating Yorkshire, which you know follows the trials and tribulations for just everyday school life. I think it's a good thing. And would I want to be on it if I was still teaching and it was said we're thinking of doing this I'd.

18:24 I honestly would be like 5050 about it because but part of me would be like, I've just explained why I think it's a really good thing to have for the public. And the other part of me would be like, yeah, but would it just negatively affect the kids? And what I'm fully focused on, which is their development and education, would having a film crew in their in their classroom every day for two months be a good thing? Yeah, no. Do you reckon they would call the show as well once? Once you're on it off they realise you go into a cupboard every 10 minutes for a whisper Gold. But what? How many packets of crisps can you get free before they go? I don't think we can film this guy. Teacher exposed he's not really eating every 5 minutes of lessons he's. Not really representing what we want to represent in this show, but it's real. Isn't It's real. I don't think it is. I don't think many teachers do this. I don't think they all go into a cupboard like this and eat all these grapes.

19:09 No, and then it'd be you doing blow dart maths, yeah, with your meat and sticks like is this. Normal. Maybe like this guy, he gets the kids. He makes learning fun, not the crisp. Guy, not the crisp guy that came out, has become Mr Crisp. Yeah, that's interesting, though I, I never really watched much of it of that show. I remember when it came out I watched a bit then I. Think you were doing 20 hours a day of Minecraft at that. Point. Yeah, probably something. Yeah, probably just engaging with the kids at school, working really hard. Over here in the. Evenings and making lessons, all that sort of stuff, you know? Sure. What's your instinct on that kind of thing then as somebody hasn't really like, you know, taken in the? Context, just think as long as it is, as long as it is realistic, I think then it's a good then it's going to be a good thing. And especially if you when you just said it was prefaced with basically here's loads of positivity about school and how it can be a really good thing.

19:51 I'm like, well, that's a good start. If it was a show that was like bias towards exposing rubbish teachers and how? Like a podcast maybe? That advice? Was. Exposing yeah or toxic SLT that that would be worth consuming, would it? No, no, no, because we we're fair. We've established this. We give all representations. Whereas if the show was very much just like we're just trying to like bash teachers, yeah, bash season show how generation show how bad school is for kids now. And it's like how that probably isn't that good. We don't really need that in this climate, I suppose. Yeah, no, completely. Yeah, I, I mean, yeah. I can't see Mr Stevens being a star of the I'm sorry, I just can't see it. Well, I can. Okay, we'll try maybe great. Disagree. A week, a week. Do you think that's important? I think that's really important, yeah, to the future of our next generation.

20:31 Know about that? Next question, what three things do you think should be added to teacher training which currently isn't or isn't done in detail enough? Houses. That's a really good one. Are you? Are you gonna answer one of my questions without saying that's a good question? No, I actually like to think about questions rather than just giving a off the shelf rubbish answer. So yeah, whilst I think of it. Like, it's like, it's like Jimmy Carr when he gets heckled, he's like, what? Yeah, he repeats it back. Yeah, sorry, I'll say it louder. Well, what few things should be added to teacher training? I don't know. Your mum normally does. It's thinking. It's thinking he's. Got he's got deep recently. Isn't he? He hasn't some Yeah on some podcast if you got an answer. Yet no, no, no, no. I was hoping you'd come in with your answer that you obviously. Pre planned no people have anything I can just think you. Can think on the spot, can you?

21:15 Yeah, well, how about you just start? Put me on the. Spot, baby. Yeah, yeah, you can keep thinking. You give me what you can do is I'll say mine and you go, yeah, that. I'll read. I'll read back. A huge thing for me, if I think back to when I just qualified as a teacher, one of the the parts of the job I thought I was massively under equipped was noticing things like dyslexia in children. You know that those kind of, you know, my child might have ADD or my child might have this or that. I absolutely was winging it. I was like, yeah. Do you think my child has dyslexia? I'm a 22 year old, just come out of my one year PTC and I got about 5 minutes of training on dyslexia. I don't know, but the extent of my dyslexia knowledge was do they get their B's and their D's modelled up? Genuinely, I would, I literally don't know.

21:58 So I think huge thing for teachers training is at least even having the means at the time to be like, I have a basic understanding that's better than it currently is. So I think you need to go into more detail in training, but then also training to say, this is how you go about it. This is how you go about finding this out. This is how you go about going down the right routes to get a child diagnosed or this is who you go to. Like obviously I knew I need to go to my SENCO. Like I obviously knew to do that. But in the moment, like talking to an A parent, I felt like very much like a fraud. And I think equipping teachers with more knowledge of spotting these things, not necessarily diagnosing, of course, you can't do that. But the ability to say, oh, actually I'm seeing some signs of this in this child. I'm seeing some signs of that.

22:39 I think that can be heightened. Yeah, because I definitely felt under equipped if I think about going back to the start of my career. Yeah, that's my one as well. That's that's me. I was thinking, I was actually thinking just exactly that one. Exactly. No, but just on your point about that, I do remember like just genuinely not really even knowing what it was. I know you said it all with B's and D's and I didn't even know someone was like, oh, no, I remember saying one time, Oh yeah, I think there might be some dyslexia there. No, this car's dyspaxic. I was like, ah, yeah, winging it at this point thinking, oh, cool, I like a fool now because there are clearly different things. And I have just thought that one is that one. And you know, it's just embarrassing, isn't it, when you don't actually know anything about it. So for me, I'm, I was trying to think like when I started like that, you know, day one when you've actually got your class, you're like, Oh my God, I'm not in training anymore.

23:20 What are the things I struggle with? For me, one of the biggest ones genuinely, even though you obviously would have done this in your training, but it's just a bit more, maybe a bit more guidance on like how to be adaptable with your planning and to your actual class. Like, because I know I had the class, I know you have a, you have your mentor and you're taking on their class. They'll obviously tell you things about the kids. But when it came down to like just being left alone, I was like, here's your new class list. I just didn't really, I just didn't know what to do. I didn't know really know where to start. You know, I mean, I was like, what do I actually plan now based on this bit of data that I've been getting about these kids? Because last time I did this, a teacher sat down for an hour and told me everything's everything about them because they'd already been teaching them for two terms And I'd just come in and, and they were guiding me through so much that I didn't really get a chance to think about it. And I just felt very much on the spot of like, cool, So what do I do?

24:04 Even if I had last year's planning, if you're lucky enough to be in a school where it's like, here's last year's planning, pick it up and adapt it. Cool. How do I do that? Because I don't really know because all I've done is write 3 page lesson plans. Like, you know, as part of part of my teacher training on a bunch of kids where someone's just very much guided me for that, told me about the kids already. I didn't really know what to do. But did they do that always? Very surely towards the end of the year you were absolutely doing that. I. Think, yeah, towards the end of the year you were, but by that point you knew the kids. I don't know. It's just that it's that almost new experience of like, I kind of wish I'd just been sat down and maybe there was like an hour seminar or something, one time where it's like, right, this is how you interpret some data. And maybe, maybe more. So I guess the impression I'm getting here that would help you a lot more is how to navigate September, specifically how to navigate like a brand new cohort, which is coming to you. And now it's completely your choice because over your year of training, absolutely right.

24:50 Like you, you kind of embed your way through and you know the kids so well by the time you start doing any adaptation. So in September when you start and you say, right here's your cohort, off you go. It's like, Oh my gosh, what does this look like? How how long do I spend getting to know the kids? And then what do I adapt or do I adapt immediately? Exactly. So like a September start thing? Yeah. And I remember being near, being near the start of the year and someone from SRT, maybe the head teacher coming in and just trying to just give me a bit of feedback and support on being like, we haven't really differentiated, you know, down. So you haven't differentiated for, for this, for this like group of children properly, sort of because they have that kind of different ability. I just remember thinking, I just don't know. I was like, I just I've differentiated it three ways. I've got like a middle ability, 1A high ability and a low ability. I was like, I don't really know what you want me to do.

25:31 The best way around that is just to plan a quality lesson where you don't differentiate by sheets and colours and stuff and kids just get as far as they get. But I think back when you qualified, there was an obsession with a red sheet and an orange sheet and a green sheet and a blue sheet and a purple sheet and a double purple sheet just in case. And even they weren't right. I did that, yeah. And even that was like they were basically what they were saying was. You've kind of done it off the cut. You've done it because you think the policy is to do this, whereas what I want you to do is actually look at the children you've got and plan accordingly for them. And I just didn't know how to do it. It was. Sounds like dodgy policy then. Yeah, actually what you've done there mate, is you've followed the policy instead of actually following what the kids need. It's like, well, you've just exposed yourself there. Yeah, potentially. So there's there's two things I suppose what we spoke about there like I think more more in depth knowledge of different needs from children spotting them early September start how to actually know how quickly you should spend getting to know your kids and how to adapt etcetera. And I think the last one that I'll put in there for three, so you don't think of more than one, is absolutely teachers knowing their rights a lot more from day one. Like during teacher training, we talked about that. People always mentioned the Burgundy book. Seems like an old school thing to say now, but know your rights.

26:37 Oh my goodness, makeup. You should finish teacher training and you should absolutely know what is acceptable and unacceptable and exactly what your job title is and what your expectations are and what your contract says and what you can push back on. Because I feel like what happens a lot in teacher training and I've got messages from people. I got one message from someone who said they were on a teacher training course. They went there as a mentor and there was a bunch of like brand new, brand new cohort of teachers. And one of the lecturers said to the whole group of new teachers that teaching is, is a love and you should, you should put your life into it. And the more you put into it, the more you'll get out. So make it your thing. Don't be afraid to put extra hours in. Do as much as you can.

27:18 And this guy was just this mentor was just horrified because it's it's this classic thing of like Ects and new teachers are put down this pipeline of do more, do load, put yourself straight. It's amazing. Yeah, push yourself. Yeah, it's going to be hard sometimes, but that's what teaching is. It's like, no, no, no, no. You need to know. You need to know your boundaries. And if you choose as a new teacher to go above and beyond that, it's fantastic. But even the most basic level of doing the job, you're already going above and beyond. Just know that. Just understand that. And knowing your rights doesn't mean you do nothing all year. Knowing your rights means you understand what your contract is. You understand how you're already going above and beyond that just by doing the job of being a teacher and then not being gaslight into thinking you need to give up of another 10 hours of your week because you just don't. Yeah, understanding expectations on you. It's the baseline, isn't it?

28:01 I definitely had no baseline when I started teaching. I was like, there, it's infinite. I feel like I went through training that was exactly like what you just described. It was very much just, yeah, pour your life into it. You got an hour free in the evening dedicated to teaching. You got two hours free at the weekend dedicated to teaching. Do as much time as you can on teaching. There is no baseline. I did not know that for it took me years to establish that, you know, and now here we are saying to him, I guess we're just thinking of our younger selves and just thinking actually, I wish I did. Do you know what I probably still would have done? Honestly, 99% of the things that I did, 100% I did it because I enjoyed it, but I didn't do it knowing that actually there was a certain baseline. I did it thinking this is what everyone in teaching should be doing. It was toxic. My my mindset was toxic. Yeah, and I, I was toxic to a degree because I remember thinking, oh, they're not doing it. Yeah, well, I am.

28:45 I'm obviously a bad teacher. No, not not tall. They're they've got their head screwed on. They know it's important. They do. It's important. It's vital. So those are the three. I think they're really good additions and I think they should be implemented. Actually, Mr DfE person who's listening to this podcast, why don't you do that right now, OK? Next question, can you support with ideas for career changes if you're thinking of leaving the profession? Not a decision I'm taking lightly, but I just feel it's the right thing to do for my well-being. OK. So firstly, I think you moved into the expected standard of reading. Well done. Too much a better flow. I think you can do a bit more intonation. Yeah, a little bit. So something to work on, but I think you just you're on the cusp of expected there. Well done. In terms of career changes, we get this question so much, I think because people are kind of also taking taking account that we've left the profession ourselves and what what are you doing now guys? How are you?

29:29 How are you surviving? How are you paying your mortgage? So yeah, in terms of career changes, there's a few roots to go down. That's for Saw. That, that's for Saw. Ohh, that's. For SAW, I'll give you that feedback right back now. Maybe you can learn that. That is below. Below standard even reading. I'm sorry, it's just my. Obviously you're not even doing the reading that this is. Below, I think there's yeah, a couple of roads to go down. 1 is you can try and stay in education. We kind of cultivated that a little bit of our tutoring company. So two years into our teaching, well, three years for you, 2 for me. We started our tutoring company back in 2018 and that kind of grew on the side. It was like, oh, a teacher's side hustle. It was like. But it grew and it grew and it grew and it got to the point where, yeah, of course it would be a pay cut to quit teaching, but it could supplement our income for a while whilst we went part time.

30:14 And then eventually it was the kind of thing where we were saying, well, do you know what? It'll pay our bills. OK, so we can take this leap into quitting teaching. We start the podcast a few years ago, not remote. I had someone comment the other day saying what can I do if I want to leave teaching? Any help please? And someone else replied saying start an Instagram on a podcast. Apparently I had, I had to reply. I replied, I can assure you this is not anywhere paying your mortgage to pay my salary, my UPS for teaching role that I used to have. So yeah, this isn't necessarily the hugest money maker in the world for us, but it's another something we can focus on and grow. And I think, yeah, if you're looking to get out of teaching, you could maybe start thinking about what can I do on the side just to supplement my income a bit. Even if it means you can end up dropping a day or dropping two days in your teaching career. That time is is vital and it's time, isn't it? I think it's time if you're thinking about career changes and you don't want to lose your income. We need to train up in something, don't we? I had a friend who was full time working as an estate agent, spent his evenings training up to be a cloud engineer for Amazon software and stuff.

31:13 Did that in his evenings after his baby went to bed. Spent hours so long doing it and now he's in a job, much better salary, much better well-being has half day and a Friday. Amazing crack on. It's like it's the kind of thing you need to put in. So I think, yeah, you have to put the time in if you want to keep your salary similar. There's most jobs you're going to have to do a little bit of training or or take a cut to begin with for sure. That's if you're coming out of education. If you're staying in education, try and do a little side thing. But yeah, have you got any advice? I mean, you've literally quit teaching. Yeah, I mean, there's a, there's a Facebook group I've been in for years, right. And I'll, I'll give you a couple of stories from it, genuinely just from recently. It's called Life After Teaching UK or something huge that isn't it. Yeah, it's quite a big group. And there's a few others as well. Facebook great for just groups of people that are, you know, similar to you. Isn't it interesting how you've been in that group for a long time?

31:55 Yeah, I know. I don't. I don't know why because I genuinely have been in that group for like 5 or 6 years. Well, obviously in the back of your mind you were thinking I. Think I was just maybe, yeah, just interested as well. Isn't it people should know their options. I was, I was always interested, what do people do outside of this? Like how do you have to stay in education? And honestly, the answer is no, no. I've seen a few things recently. One really popular post was about working for the council. That's really interesting. A lot of people transition from from, you know, from this group anyway, from working in schools to work in the council. And they're like, oh, it's loads of transferable skills. I've I've worked my one person was like, yeah, I've worked my way up. Now I've been working with the council for five years and I'm, I'm on more money now than I wasn't teaching because I'm in some really like bigwig role. And I was like, that's really cool. Another person I put on the other day saying, oh, I I got a job. They they were like, I took a pay car, but it didn't last very long.

32:39 I got a job. It was like a, a like need financial planning. It was like a financial advisory, like a place. Yeah, and mentioned need financial planning in a while. Well, that my good friend Mr need financial planning. He'll be his ears will prick up. He'll be loving this. Yeah, it was him. No, it wasn't. But this person was saying yeah, and they were talking about how, and it's what I liked about this post. They were talking about how they were praised so much in this job despite it being literally nothing to do with teaching kids, purely from the transferable skills of working hard and how quickly you can pick up stuff because we're teaching well. I think you find teachers are bloody lazy. Yeah, actually. And they don't have to think about anything. But as a teacher you're constantly, constantly analysing and thinking and adapting on the spot, and you just get better and better at that. I think you can even realise how good you get at that.

33:22 So this person was saying, and other people were agreeing like, oh, I walked into this other job and people were just amazed at how quickly I picked everything up and how good I was at this new skill that normally takes longer. And they were just, yeah, big enough. The fact that teaching's got great transferable skills, you don't even have to stay in education. Just look around. You can probably walk into another job and very quickly train up to be a really good standard in that new career. I. Think that's a big thing I'd say, but a lot of people are turned off by taking a salary cut. Just look at the progression, honestly, just just look at it like try and look at it as like a three to five year plan at least and think well, even three to five years, if I'm successful, where will I? Because it would probably be past teaching. And another huge thing that comes up, loads of people are leaving is the civil service, almost similar to what we're saying about the council working in the civil service, because you get a lot of flexi work, a lot of working from home, a lot of new mums move over to the civil service and, and do jobs there.

34:07 And yeah, that that's quite a time consuming process to apply. So like it's the kind of thing to look into. Like literally now, like you, you join that group and yeah, just deny us, you know, Ed tech's the thing as well. You know, Ed tech is huge, Lots of people moving to Ed tech. And we're spending a lot of our time, as we talked about last week, had a nice lot, nice responses last week about a nice platform, a lot of people who want to be using it talking about arithmetic. So yeah, that's really exciting. And we'll keep you guys updated with what we're working on with that. So there's there's so much out there is what I'm saying, Like, you know, don't think that you're trapped in teaching. No, it is a very common to think that and the salary and the time. Do you know what? Some people can be trapped in a job and I'm not here to say no no, you just pull your bootstraps up and work. Hard and take a pay cut and do. This yeah, it's not realistic for some people at all. So if you're in that position, I'm sorry, you know, do what you can, listen to our podcast and how you can help your well-being, etcetera, and push back on stuff.

34:53 But if you're even got a smidgen of like a chance to do something, my advice would be, Oh my goodness, do it because you can come back to teaching. Yeah, that's true. Right. Hayden, what is your opinion on the increase in homeschooling? Well, firstly, I would say there, it has been a significant increase in homeschooling, particularly from 2020. I wonder, I wonder why, what happened in that clear thing. Yeah, it's been a huge, huge increase. I see a lot more online. I see a lot more in the news and genuinely in media, people with parents coming out and saying I'm homeschooled my child now and you should be doing this as well. My gut, my guttural reaction to that was as a teacher, I was like, no, no, no, no, you shouldn't be doing no, no. It feels like a personal attack. I don't know why you taking them out of school. No, no, I'm the best placement to be. I'm the teacher, I'm a trained, I'm an expert, and that's generally honestly like how I feel about that until I just sit down and actually just think about it, not in a in a selfish way and think why would someone want to do this? Hard for you to do that.

35:43 Really hard for me to do that. It took me many, many years to to think about other people. I'm not going to think about myself. First, yes, why? Why wouldn't you want to be in my class every single person in the UK? Well, I'll tell. I'll tell you why. Firstly, as we talk about a lot on this on this podcast, funding has gone through the floor like in terms of for schools. Through the floor, Yeah, really. Switch that around. Not through the roof, baby through the floor and down a few, down a few floors as well. But funding is awful and I think parents are particularly from having to homeschool their children during like COVID times. Parents are way more aware now, firstly of the fact that there is an option there, like homeschooling might actually be a viable option that works. They might have worked really well for their child during that time. Secondly, when they put them back into school and they're suddenly more aware of the fact that there is just no money for anything and there's no provision. Especially if your child needs literally anything out of the ordinary that isn't just, you know, you're just turning up to school and they're just with their class teacher all day. People are just so much more hyper aware now of the fact that there just isn't any money in education. And if your child needs any extra support, there is a good chance that they're not getting that the fullest that they should be.

36:49 Maybe even like a couple of decades ago, they would have absolutely got this support and this funding and this group and this one to one TA, not for two people. Just stuff like that. Genuinely. And parents are just being like, yeah, I this, this system is not working for my child anymore. SEND parents in particular, I think we're seeing a huge, a huge surge of people being like, no, I'm just taking my child out of this school because this is not helping them. But but does taking them out of school help them? This is a huge I, I think it's a really tricky one because I think there's a massive case to say it's still the best place for them, even though it's, even though it's worse for everyone, not for everyone. I think on a case by case situation, I don't think you can make any blanket statements of, oh, yeah, for SEND children, take them out of school, you'll do a better job. That's not true. Yeah, some people will.

37:30 Yeah, some people do an incredible job of their own children that way. That just that makes school look like a joke. Yeah. Other people won't. Yeah, and and and also not even that they won't like, it's their fault. It's just like that child will literally still get more of what they need. Maybe not every single thing of what we need. And we can talk about how the plight of SEND parents fighting for what their kids need, etcetera, is still a really important issue and children should get what they need. But school can still be the better place to be. 100% and and in my personal opinion, I do think that's probably true a lot of the time is school is still, even though it's not ideal, it probably is the better place to be because we just there, just there's more, there's more stuff there's. Still stuff involved there's. Still stuff involved, right? But I can totally sympathise with the rising dissatisfaction with school and and I always took that really personally. Like I said, I was always very much like, Nope, no, we shouldn't be doing this.

38:16 I you know, that's the best place to be. I mean, we're the experts who, you know, you do think you are undermining. I've trained for three, I've been working this for 10 years and you're just a parent who doesn't work in education. How could you possibly think this is better than what I do? We just talked about how we finished teacher training and don't feel remotely prepared for SEND. So it's like that arguments gone. It's just gone. I'm sorry, your average new teacher is not an expert in everything. It's impossible. And it could well be that your child is not in the best place. And I think it's, so it's such a stretch to say like it's just wrong to say school's the best place for everyone. Like just just even just thinking about it for 2 seconds, even just logically. Of course it's not. Of course it can't be like, even even for lots of children who do well in school, there's still a bunch of kids who don't necessarily need to come out of school, but school's still not working for them. And then there's a whole another bunch of kids who should come out of school because it's probably better for them in general.

39:06 I, I, yeah, I there's been a lot of talk recently about safeguarding and there's been a few examples of children kind of being lost in the system a little bit when they're taken out of school and some safeguarding issues around. I think that that's, that that is clearly a worry and we don't want that to happen. But I think then tiring home education with that brush of, oh, it's not safe for kids. I think that's just bizarre. Like what we're saying there is that children aren't safe in their own home. What a strange thing to say. It's clearly not true for all kids. As a teacher, I what, what I will do is absolutely, I will sit here and say for for some children, home schooling is not only a good thing, but necessary. But I will also absolutely sit here and say, yeah, but don't, don't, don't completely kill off schools. Don't completely talk them down and say they're brokered for everyone and the system's terrible and we're indoctrinating the kids and it's just terrible for everyone involved.

39:54 No, it's not. School is a fantastic place for so many kids. And when it when it turns into that, I'm like, cool, OK, gloves are off. Then we'll talk about all the, all the cons of home schooling if you want to. Or we can have an adult conversation about how there are pros and cons to both and case by case, we should talk about it. But I see I've seen some people who really champion home education. It's fantastic. But then a few of those same people will attack schools constantly. And it's like, OK, you might have had a bad experience with the school. That's fine. And there's a place for that voice. I really do think there's a place that voice because you should be highlighting the drawbacks of school and the issues they have. But then when someone just says blanketly, it would be like I was saying blanketly. All SLT are horrible, all SLT are toxic. Never listen to SLT, it's horrendous. I would never say that and I'd be the first person to say that I've worked for amazing leaders, but I'm still going to highlight the issues.

40:42 Those people who go further and then say we should abolish the school system completely and it's completely broken and teachers are just rubbish and they're awful, that's obviously just daft. And I, I would push back on that and I'd say, look, let's have a conversation about it. Let's talk about how we can improve schools for sure to to to get more children back into the school system where it would be better for them was still given the option for home schooling. I think all of these things should exist, but when it becomes one versus the other and blanket statements about both home education is always bad. It's not safe for the children at home versus schools are terrible. They're indoctrinating your kids and teachers are useless and they don't know anything. Yeah, you're both wrong. Yeah, it's true. It's so true. There has to be a space for a bit of nuance in this conversation.

41:22 So what do you think then? Like when you know that? I don't know the exact stats, but there has been a significant rise in homeschooling since 2020. Do you think that's justified? Do you think that comes with any change? Do you think there should be any changes to policy with this? Do you think we should be a bit more, a bit more careful? We've got way more children at home now. Do you think that does justify people saying, well actually we do need to up safeguarding measures at home? Like what? What's your just opinions on the fact that it has just risen? Yeah, safeguarding with kids is paramount, it's number one. And, and if any, if we look at any situation, we think safeguarding might have got worse because of XY or Z, we should be looking at ways of helping that. I think they're introducing some kind of home schooling register now, which is basically just like you, you, you at least have to register your child. I, I really, I don't know the insurance and outs. I'm not going to go into detail here, but but they're, they're introducing something just to keep people a bit more accountable of having fewer children slip through the net, basically.

42:12 And yeah. And people have pushed back and said, it's my kid will do what I want. I was like, yeah, but can you understand why this is a good thing? Can you understand why this is happening? The only reason is because maybe it's not for your kid. Maybe your kid would be fine. Your kid would probably be fine. But what about those 10 kids who aren't going to be fine? But let's look after them just by having this just go over it just. Do it, It's true. Is it because if you think about it just logically, making it easier and more normalised to take your children out of school where they are like heavily, heavily protected through safe, like unbelievable layers of safeguarding. Making it more easy to do that is obviously going to open the door to the idea that that bad things are happening as well, like safeguarding issues actually happening outside of school. It's of course that's going to come hand in hand with it. Not everyone. We're not saying to that one person as well. Oh, my kid will be, yeah, I know that's fine. Your kid will be fine.

42:57 But making it more normal to and not easy to just take kids out of school is obviously going to bring issues as well. Like we really should be thinking of safeguarding these children at like the most. Yes. Think of all the training we've had on, you know, prevent radicalization, FGM, you know, things like that. And it's like, OK, like we can pick up on those things as a school if we see different patterns. Maybe they're out of school for a bit longer than they are normally and they come back and maybe the child's a bit more reserved. And you think, oh, where did you go when you went here looking out for those signs of a child changing the way they behave and oh, I wonder what they're consuming in their social media, maybe their parents are missing, etcetera. The way they. Talk to the other kids and the teachers. Have they been medicalised, What they're saying, what their sentences, all of it? Exactly. It's more adults and more people in a place of looking out for your child. And, and by taking them out of that, you're just reducing the number, like you are just reducing the number of people who are looking out for them in that way. And it's, it's not saying that that's going to be bad definitely for your child, but what it's going to say is that overall, clearly there's less protection for children in general.

43:53 And clearly it's OK, I think to be having conversations of if it's, if it's the conversation starts with how can we ensure children stay as safe as possible? Who's got a problem with that conversation? Honestly, like if you feel attacked by that, what's wrong with you? Just to open that dialogue, maybe defend why you think it's not necessary through the lens of steel because it's going to keep children safe in this other way. Talk about that, but don't just say, oh, it's automatically bad because my rights are being stripped away and I can't do this with my kid. Get over it. Honestly, we're just looking out for the children. Yeah, I agree. Do do you think about learning now? Because obviously safeguarding is a huge thing. I think we've addressed that thinking about literally learning specifically. Do you like, what's your opinion? Do you think there are massive drawbacks in general? We are just talking. I know we've all established, you know, yeah, it's fine.

44:34 There's different situations. But as a blanket thing, do you think there's any drawbacks to literally just education for the child with her being pulled out of school all the time? I was. Thinking about this as well because we concentrated on SEND which is a big reason why people leave. I'm just I'm talking about anyone now, anyone at all who leaves. Not even because, just because the parent might think they're going to get a more rounded education because of it. I think you. Can How on earth can we sit here again and talk about how school trips have been decimated? You don't get to go anywhere anymore. We can talk about, you know, holidays are really expensive in, in some holidays and your kid can't go away and just have a break with their family and a core memory. Unless it costs their parents three times as much. You can take them away in downtime with the home educated, you can do what you want. I think there's so much to be said how you can get so much out of home education in ways that you can't get out of school. All of those things we just mentioned there. I, I think school comes with lots of pros as well, but you will miss out on like you, you, you know, being out of school maybe means that a child won't get bullied anymore and it's way better for them with home education, being out of school might mean that a child literally is isolated through socialising and, and it means that they don't get that bond anymore.

45:33 So it's a negative for one and a positive for another child. And then you have to look at it as a whole picture. And I think again, just saying, well, if you're in school, you learn more, not necessarily genuinely like the amount. If I think about what I've taught half of my days, which is in the afternoon, all the topic stuff, the science, the geography, the history, etcetera. You could learn most of that through reading books or just chatting with your family or watching a specific education video or going on a trip. Going to the Roman baths in Bath would teach you nearly everything you need to know about the Romans. So you've got an idea. Cool. Oh, it's not exactly what we did in our scheme of work, which was not even in the curriculum bar scheme of work said this. So yeah, who cares? Like you can get so much more out of it. I think basic maths, like there's a lot of the maths curriculum we literally say is not necessary and we teach it in school still. Well, that's obviously pointless. Oh, your kid misses the Roman numerals lesson. So but that's fine.

46:20 But does your child need a good working knowledge of place value, of number, of adding, of subtracting? Also Yes. And you know what? I am an expert at teaching that. And the parent might be Yeah. So I am better at doing that for your child. But it's a pro and a con. It's a give and a take. And I think it's just you have to assess it yourself for your child. It might be better for your child. You know the drawbacks, you know the positives. And you might think, you know what? For my kid, though, this is going to work for them. And I think the person often best placed to make that call is the parent. Yeah, of course. And as teachers, we need to step back sometimes, I think, and just be like, OK, you've made that call. My voice is important because I am still a professional educator. And I know that your child will miss out on these things. But as a parent, you're telling me they're not going to get bullied as much. They're going to go on more trips away. They're going to get more experience of life and the world in a different.

47:07 Respect a curriculum. They'd much prefer a curriculum where we get to do XY and Z and this school doesn't do that because we maybe maths and English isn't that thing. Maths and English is important, but maybe it's not their thing. And actually 60% of school is just doing maths and English. And for them it's like, no, do you know what? I will teach the maths and English through this vessel of doing all these practical things because that's what they actually enjoy. You're as a school. You cannot provide that. I'm really sorry. It's nothing to do with you school. There is no funding. I know you can't take my kid on any trips and do literally anything fun ever. So I'm going to take my kid out and we're going to do it this way. And you just at that point you have to go. Yep. Cool. They're not my child. Yeah. Yeah. So I've had my opinion. You've got your opinion, but here's your child. So. OK. Absolutely and. Here's a bunch of safeguarding stuff that we put in place for this reason, because actually, regardless of it being my your child or not, my child, safeguarding is still important regardless of that anyway. So this is this new measure that has to come, and you've got to adhere to that.

47:52 Yeah, yeah, but, but have fun. And I honestly wish the best for your kid because as a teacher, what do I want? I want the best for every child. And that means for some children not being in the school system. And that is just a fact. And that that's where I sit with that. I think I'm. Not a very mature conclusion to come to you because I definitely definitely like even just a couple of years ago, I would have been very way more on the side of no. It's just it's no, they should be at school. School is the best place with everyone. I was very much. You've grown that trap. You've grown up. I've grown. Yeah. Self centred. Well, I'm homeschooled now. I've actually. Left the school system myself. Go out of the school system, right? If people enjoy the episode, they can leave us a review wherever you're listening to your podcast. It really helps us out. Share it with somebody who might find it useful. And if they have any questions you want to submit for the future, join our WhatsApp group.

48:33 The community is down below. It's completely free. You only get messages from us. It's a great time to be in our WhatsApp community. Hayden, before we finish, anything to say? Enjoy the rest of your day and we'll see you next week.