Ep 183: Q&A: Behaviour Charts, Residential Trips & Exploiting TAs

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Hello everyone.
Welcome back to another episode

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of Teach the Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name is

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Hayden.
And we're back with another

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question and answer our lovely
WhatsApp community.

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You can join down below.
Even a few questions from our

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website, I forget we have one of
them.

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Hayden.
Yeah.

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I'm not going to lie.
Set that up and let that run,

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didn't we?
Yeah, it's like, oh, we must get

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a website.
We must get a website.

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Never look.
Don't even know what it is.

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Never look down in the
description, we'll link to it.

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But thank you so much because
there have been a few

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submissions from there as well.
Without further ado.

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I was switching pretty quickly
and immediately into.

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A hand?
No one.

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Ever says that with with sorry,
with further ado before we jump

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in.
I was with I was with Lauren's

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dad and Lauren's step sister the
other day, right?

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And she, to give her credit,
avid listener.

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She's 20 years old.
Yep, 20 years old.

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And she's been listening for
like 2 years since we started.

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So shout out Jazz.
Thanks for listening.

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Keep giving us feedback.
And she said her favourite

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episodes are the Q&A's.
Yeah, I favourite ones, I must

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say personally, I know I am
involved in both and plan the

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other ones a lot of the time,
but these ones I love because it

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feels more laid back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And that was a good use of
further ado.

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I'm going to start doing that
for now, saying with further.

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ADO.
When I want to store something,

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I.
Go straight now.

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I can't think of the original
phrase Without without.

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Without is it?
Without further ado.

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Without further.
Ado.

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OK, yeah.
And it means like without like.

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It means go straight into it.
Sorry with ado.

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With further ado, actually, I
want to mention something else.

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Oh God.
Anyway, but without further ado,

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let's read this first question.
Where do teachers stand with

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residentials?
Oh baby, how how what?

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What was on your bingo card for
the time of the year when we

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would first mention
residentials?

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Jazzle.
No, this is our third iteration

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of what's going on about it.
Anyway, I can see where this is

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going.
I'm a second year ECT and it's

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my first year in year 56 and
they are going on their

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residential.
I have not been asked to go so I

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think there is an assumption
that I am as they are my class.

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Yet the previous teacher never
went on residentials.

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The trip also leaves on a
Sunday, so I would have to give

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up part of my weekend and gain
nothing from the 24/7 work for

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four days in a row.
I don't want to seem like I

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don't care and be awkward, but
it's unfair to assume I'd go

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just because they're my class
and I have no children at home.

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I worry my executive head will
hold this against me in the ECT

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review as she has a habit of
bringing up previous points and

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holding grudges.
Gain nothing.

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Does she understand what this
vocation is?

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Does she understand the
experience that you'll gain?

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Do it for the love of the
children.

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Some relationships you'll build
with those children that'll be

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worth it.
Gain nothing.

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Right.
I think this, jokes aside, is a

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really good question because it
does round everything off

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because quite often we'll get
questions like this and me and

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you'll just say, you know, you
don't have to do it, just say

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no.
And that's obviously very easy

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to say and some people struggle
with doing that in general, but

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it really was cut off at the end
with literally this person's

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worried about being held against
them when it comes to stare of

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you by people in charge.
That is something like you

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actually can't control.
So I want to dive.

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I want to jump straight into
that of your opinion because I'm

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sure we'll talk about the rest
of the second, but that really

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piques my interest of what do
you literally do when you think

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actually, do you know what this
will affect my performance

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review, potentially even my pay
and my future standing in this

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school and future opportunities.
Does that come into it at all

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when you decide to do these
things?

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It does.
It does come into it and

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absolutely it would affect my
decision.

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Should it?
I don't know.

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I don't know if it should.
It probably shouldn't really if

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we're being objective like on
paper like that probably

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shouldn't.
OK, I just want to clarify what

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I mean because I don't mean, I
suppose when I say should it,

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it's easy to say, well, it
shouldn't.

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But it what I mean is in the
actual situation where you are a

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teacher in a school where it is
going, should that make your

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decision change?
Like not should it exist in the

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1st place because of it's
obvious that shouldn't exist in

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the 1st place.
Yeah.

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But I mean, now you're in a
school with a head or, you know,

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has passed of going after people
and holding stuff against them

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and not and and like limiting
their career.

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Yeah.
In that situation, should you

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just swallow it and take it and
go for it or or should you still

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hold your ground?
Oh.

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It's, I think, look, I, I
genuinely think you can kind of

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separate them a bit and do both
and and, but by that I mean

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because.
I don't know what you're on.

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About I, I think, I think you,
you can still make the decision

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in that moment to be all right,
I'm going to do this, but

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there's a bigger play here.
I'm going to do this.

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I'm going to go on the
presidential.

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You might even sort of want to
go anyway, but you're thinking

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I'm not going to make a point.
However, I will make my point a

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different way.
I'm still, I'm not just going to

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do it and roll over and say
nothing.

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I'm going to do it.
But I am also going to raise my

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concerns with, with whoever it
is with this or T whatever and

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say, look, I really didn't like
that you would just presume that

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I would go, Obviously I'm going
to go, OK, it's not a problem.

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Why?
I'm not saying I'm not going to

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go, but it did make me feel like
this, you know, whatever,

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however it made you feel.
And I don't like the fact that

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I've been pressured into this
decision when realistically no

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other teacher has.
And last year the teacher didn't

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even go and I've not been given
that same grace.

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So I feel like you can do the
thing.

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You can still tick the box,
right, That ultimately they're

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going to go.
Oh well, they did do it though

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and raise the thing.
But what like from a leader's it

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like I'm just being honest.
That sounds like a bit of a cop

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out in terms.
Yeah, in terms of you still have

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to, you still do it.
So the if I was a leader in that

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situation, I know I'm being a
douche, but I know I'm being an

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idiot.
So if if you know, they go, oh,

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I'll do it.
But as soon as I hear that, I'm

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like called turn off.
Oh yeah, do.

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You know if there's a difference
then between being called out on

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something and not being called
out?

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Yeah, completely.
You should definitely call them

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out in it.
But ultimately I don't think, I

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don't think what you said will
change the mind of someone who

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has already made that decision
to be an idiot like that person

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that that head is going to hold
this against.

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I, I can guarantee understands
and knows they shouldn't be

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doing that, but they're doing it
as a technique to get free

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labour out of someone.
They're being toxic.

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So as soon as you say yeah, OK,
I'll do it, but it's not nice

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what you're doing, the head will
just go.

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I know, but in their head like
yeah, great.

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But are you going to do it
though?

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You are going to do it?
Cool.

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Nice one.
Thanks.

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OK.
So I guess that's where this is

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going.
I think there probably are some

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people that if they get called
out on something, they'd maybe

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think twice about doing it next
time.

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Do you know what I mean?
It's like a as long as they

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don't get called out, they're
thinking, oh, easy, easy to get

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away with this.
Nothing on my conscience.

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As soon as someone approaches
them and says I know exactly

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what you're doing and no one
likes it, I feel like maybe

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they'd think twice about do you?
Not think they already know

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that.
I think they know it, but I

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just, I literally think the acts
of being called out sometimes

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make people think twice about
doing stuff that they already

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know.
They already know what they're

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doing is not very nice, but
because no one challenges them,

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they it's easy to do.
Do you apply, do you apply that

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kind of logic to striking?
Like if as long as you call it

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out and say it's bad.
Don't go out and strike though.

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What?
What do you mean?

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So like in terms of if we apply
that logic to striking and like,

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oh, don't go on strike, please.
And they know that it's because

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of a good reason.
If you just call out the bad

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things, is that enough?
You don't have to go as far as

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going on strike.
If you call out the bad

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leadership in terms of expecting
you to go on trips for nothing,

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but you still do it, OK, fine.
But you called it out and that's

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enough.
Is is calling out enough always?

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Or are you being specific in a
situation?

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To to be really clear, I do
absolutely not think that the

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same thing.
No, it's just like a middle

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ground.
No.

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So I don't think that's yeah,
yeah, I don't think they're the

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same at all.
But what I'm saying I don't

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definitely don't think it's the
same is I think this is a middle

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ground basically you're, I think
you're saying that calling it

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out and going on the trip is the
same as not calling out and

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going on the trip, I think.
What I'm saying is it's it will

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have the same impact in the long
term.

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Yeah, yeah, sure.
Because because I think

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ultimately all people in this
situation of leadership care

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about is getting the numbers for
the trip to happen.

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And I think they already know in
this situation that's been

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described here, they already
know that they're being having

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an assumption or pushing someone
to do work for nothing or, or

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pushing the boat.
All I'm saying is I think as

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long as they get what they want,
they don't care.

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Sure.
And maybe there are some leaders

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out there who I, I, I don't
think there's a middle ground

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of, I think either you know,
what you're doing and whether

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you're called out or not,
whoever, whatever, you're going

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to go on the trip.
And I think there's some people

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who don't necessarily know what
they're doing who calling out

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means they'll be like, oh, God,
no, please don't go.

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That's fine.
Then like, oh, I'll change my

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mind of expecting you to go.
I don't think there are many

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people out there who are
expecting people to go who know

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they're pushing the boat out.
But then when called out will

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suddenly be like, oh, no, sorry.
That's fine.

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But I don't think that exists.
I think I've been, I think I've

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been really cynical maybe.
I think I genuinely think I'm

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trying to think of my own
career.

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Like I feel like I've always,
it's always been really presumed

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that I would go on trips.
But as soon as you said no, you

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wouldn't.
What I mean is as soon as you

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said no and called out the the
people you're talking about, who

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I know would be like, Oh my God,
yeah, no, please don't go.

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Yeah, so.
So calling out is enough.

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But they did assume though up
until that point.

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Yeah, that's fine.
But I'm.

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We're talking about cynical head
to heel hold grudges against

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people for not doing it.
Yeah.

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I think they're two separate
camps where calling out won't

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work for these people.
Right.

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OK, that's what I find that
that's my gut instinct here.

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Yeah.
Yeah, I'm sure there are some

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people where for some reason
calling out makes you change

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your mind, but.
So for this person then, would

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your, what would your advice be?
Would it be to Yeah, absolutely

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stand.
Your ground.

227
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,320
I'd say ignore everything else.
What?

228
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,840
What's your opinion?
And this person might say, you

229
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,760
know, I actually want to go.
I used to want to go on

230
00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,200
residentials and I did, and it
was great.

231
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,600
I didn't, I didn't expect
anything because I chose to go.

232
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,120
Yeah, right.
Later on in my career, I chose

233
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,520
to go if I got payback for it
because I had other commitments

234
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,160
in my life at that point where
I'd still like to go, but I'm

235
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,280
also not going to do it for free
this time because of XYZ.

236
00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,240
Yeah.
And then I went because I got

237
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,200
time in lieu.
And then there was a point in my

238
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,680
career towards the end where I
just didn't want to go in them

239
00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:03,640
anymore.
Yeah, no, but you could have

240
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,040
given me 3 days.
And I was like, no, I just

241
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,320
actually don't want to go away.
3 days, three nights away from

242
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,040
my family.
So I don't want to do that right

243
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:10,240
now.
And I just say no.

244
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:10,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right.

245
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,000
So it depends.
What I would say to this person

246
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,160
is you have to look at it, try
and ignore everything else.

247
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,000
What's your actual opinion?
And then say that, yeah, that is

248
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,720
what I'd do.
And I'd say if you want to go,

249
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,800
call, go like there be an
assumption for whatever I

250
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,480
actually want to go.
So this is beneficial for me.

251
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,680
As soon as it's not beneficial
for you because of what you

252
00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:29,720
actually want to do, raise it,
say it.

253
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,720
And if they hold it against you,
get the governors and the Union.

254
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:32,360
Involved, yeah.
OK.

255
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:33,400
So you wouldn't be put off by
that.

256
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,000
No, no, no, I personally and
this person's asking for help

257
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,400
and that's just what I would do
personally.

258
00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:41,320
And I would say to this person,
look, you have to go off what

259
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,880
you literally believe yourself.
Don't pander to someone and

260
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,520
like, for example, I imagine a
situation where you don't want

261
00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,880
to go, but you're worried about
them holding against you in the

262
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,160
future, so you do go.
And I'm just like, that's

263
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,840
setting up a precedent for a
future of continuously doing

264
00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:58,400
this.
Yeah, sure.

265
00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,960
You have to break this cycle at
some point.

266
00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:02,720
Maybe you've decided at this
point it's worth it for me just

267
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,440
to go this time.
Overall, fine, OK, But that's

268
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,920
where I'd lead with because you
are backed up by your contract

269
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,440
and your unions and your
governors and your

270
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,840
whistleblowing policy.
If someone holds this against

271
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,920
you, they literally can't.
And I am fed up of people in

272
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,280
power being given a pass for
acting this way simply because

273
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,760
it's awkward for the person.
Or why?

274
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,480
Don't make a thing.
Oh, don't go to that person.

275
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,280
Yeah, sorry.
Don't expect me to do it for

276
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,280
nothing then.
It comes from that.

277
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,000
We get it all the time of our
posts online.

278
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,360
Why being divisive?
Oh, I think it's actually the

279
00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,960
people doing this who are being
divisive and not me calling out

280
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,760
on social media.
It's not.

281
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,880
It's not you that's the problem
here, not wanting to go in this

282
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,920
residential.
It's the assumption that you're

283
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,240
going to.
That's the toxic part.

284
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:45,720
And I completely agree with
calling it out, but all I'm

285
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,760
saying is don't call it out.
But then just like go to the

286
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,160
status quo.
Like I'm all for affirmative

287
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:51,800
action.
I feel like we've drawn this

288
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,240
line quite a few times in
general.

289
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,120
I'm much I'm much more likely to
say, yeah, go on strike.

290
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,760
Of course you should raise you
will think more about, you know,

291
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,400
public perception or, or what
can you do other than that?

292
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,400
And that's a great dynamic, But
I'm just trying to explain where

293
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:04,960
I am if you seem like you're not
quite.

294
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,560
I really appreciate appreciate
what you said.

295
00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:09,160
I just always look for some sort
of middle ground.

296
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:10,760
I don't think you think that
middle ground exists in this

297
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,320
situation.
Yeah, but maybe that's it

298
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,560
because I'm, I'm saying this
middle ground doesn't exist at

299
00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:16,880
all, ever, but I just think it's
way less common.

300
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,560
I think if someone's doing this
and being presumptuous and being

301
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,560
a leader that's just hoping you
do your extra work for free.

302
00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:24,400
Yeah, Yeah.
I don't think they don't know

303
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,880
that, no.
And I don't think calling out

304
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,600
will affect.
I think our common ground is

305
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,320
neither of us agree of getting
walked all over there.

306
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,440
So neither of us are saying I'll
just do the trip.

307
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,280
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm only saying unconditionally

308
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,880
I would do the trip, but I'd
absolutely cause a ruckus and

309
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,480
make a point and say, look, next
year though, I'll do this trip

310
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,600
this year.
I don't think, I think you have

311
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,560
just assumed that I'm going to
be fine going.

312
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,080
You haven't actually asked me.
No one's asked me.

313
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,400
I don't think that's fair.
I am happy to go this year, but

314
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,800
next year I would appreciate
being asked beforehand and just

315
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,640
just to start something.
That's what that's what I'd do

316
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,320
if I was worried about all of
those other factors.

317
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:57,920
And I was.
And it was giving me, if it was

318
00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,680
giving me too much anxiety, the
idea that I was going to go

319
00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:01,040
against the grain.
And now that I think that all

320
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,880
eyes are going to be on me for
the next year and I'm going to

321
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,600
hate every minute in this job, I
probably would just make that

322
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,760
middle ground decision to make
my life a bit easier.

323
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,320
Yeah.
But ultimately, me personally, I

324
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,120
probably probably would do what
you're saying, though.

325
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:15,640
Yeah, I still and just make a
point.

326
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,840
It's down to the person, isn't
it really, is what we're saying

327
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,880
here.
Because I actually do agree with

328
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:21,000
you.
Like if it's going to make you

329
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,280
an anxious mess for the year and
it is net positive to just go

330
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,280
like some people always say, oh
it's just better for me to do

331
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,240
work at the weekend because it
just puts me at my mind at ease.

332
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,680
I've got time to do it, it's my
choice and I feel better for the

333
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:33,680
week.
Who am I to say don't do that?

334
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,400
Saying to this person like if
there are two options here and 1

335
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,400
is going when you don't want to
but your life's easier or don't

336
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:41,840
go and then you've made your
life tricky.

337
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,440
If you have decided that one of
those options is better for you,

338
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:46,680
who are we again?
Exactly?

339
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:47,880
Don't do that.
So that's fine.

340
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,280
That's kind of what I'm trying
to open up really.

341
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,840
And what we'll do is if, if you
know, you stand up for yourself

342
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,320
and you get, you know, loads of
toxic behaviour hurled at you,

343
00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,440
we'll just start a name and
shame section of this podcast

344
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,840
where we just name and shame
schools and people, right?

345
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,160
That would go down well.
I think so.

346
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,840
I think so.
Well what I mean is so toxic

347
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,200
lads calling it out, why are we
giving the toxic people a pass?

348
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,600
Whatever.
Next question.

349
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,000
OK, here we go.
This is from the website.

350
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,640
Yeah, So it's from the website.
There's an e-mail looks

351
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,760
different on my iPad and it is
anonymous.

352
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,560
Good to know because there is a
name and I will not read.

353
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,240
It at the end of.
The bottom it says please keep

354
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,400
me.
In other words, I've just seen

355
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:24,640
that yes, OK, cool.
Right.

356
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,600
So from I'm just kidding.
I I'm just kidding.

357
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,240
He's an ugly guy.
Wow, don't say his name right?

358
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,520
I really liked hearing about
your teaching journey this week,

359
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:35,760
however, that's nice.
Something that always comes up,

360
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,200
and I don't think this is
intentional, is that you've

361
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,480
never taught in A1 formentary
school and how difficult that

362
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,800
is.
You were talking about becoming

363
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,120
maths leads of a hub in a big
school but it's so difficult

364
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,800
leading a subject in A1
formentary school.

365
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,160
Every teacher is at least one
subject lead.

366
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,720
I have a colleague who works 2
days and and leads 2 subjects.

367
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:53,680
Cracky.
Oh my goodness.

368
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:57,000
I am three days year six class
teacher and science lead and

369
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,480
we're lucky if we get 1/2 day
out of class for our subject.

370
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,440
Wow a year?
Sorry Oh my days.

371
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,040
I just wonder if the difference
between one form entry and

372
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:06,640
larger schools could be
something that you could discuss

373
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,320
slash look into.
I have only really worked in A1

374
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,800
form entry school and it's so
hard.

375
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,640
All the planning is on you for
your class.

376
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,560
Please keep me anonymous.
Good job.

377
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,040
Firstly, I just want to say I
have worked in one momentary

378
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,440
school.
I did one year in one form.

379
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,120
And I was massively there and it
was horrendous.

380
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,160
And it was a brand new school.
Brand new school and I did,

381
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,880
honestly, I did basically
nothing for that subject because

382
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,640
the workload was insane.
I went in there with like these

383
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,320
high hopes of oh wow, I'm going
to do all this stuff, all this

384
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,080
stuff like I've been doing at my
BIG4 form entry school before

385
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:36,960
massively would be have teams of
people that can actually do

386
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,560
stuff.
I went into this school with the

387
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,920
same thoughts and dreams and
then got completely bogged down

388
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,120
with the fact that it's a one
form.

389
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,480
To make the lessons.
I needed to make so many more

390
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,920
lessons, so much more planning.
It was ridiculous.

391
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,440
And I did the bare minimum from
apps leadership that year,

392
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,960
purely not because outspite,
purely because there was

393
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,480
literally no time left.
So I can sympathise a little bit

394
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,600
with the fact that they're
vastly different depending on

395
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,680
what school you're in.
I think I sympathise a lot.

396
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,120
Like, I think it's outrageous
because like this person's

397
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,640
mentioned here about leading
subjects, right?

398
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:07,880
You still need to lead a
subject.

399
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,800
Your, you know, your grasp on
the history curriculum as a

400
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,760
history lead and the progression
you need.

401
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,080
And, and if you were to get deep
dive, like like in our school a

402
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,600
couple years ago, got deep dive
in history, everything you need

403
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,400
to know to do that properly
doesn't change just because

404
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,280
you've got fewer children in the
school.

405
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:23,960
You still need to know
everything up to scratch and

406
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,680
have a certain standard.
So I don't think the workload

407
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,560
changes that much in terms of
like, you know what you've

408
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,400
actually got to do, but your
time does and your inability to

409
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,200
do it.
I just want to put out there

410
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:41,520
right now that I think the the
difference in workload and what

411
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,800
the job is actually like from
school to school is insane.

412
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,320
And, and, and we've mentioned it
before, but we don't talk about

413
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,800
enough because it's not just
about how big the school is,

414
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,520
it's about your leadership and
your management and what's

415
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,920
acceptable as well.
Because I've worked in and seen,

416
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,320
you know, four form entry
schools, huge schools where you

417
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,720
know, the, the option is there
where you can share planning.

418
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,760
And I've seen the same huge
schools who say, no, sorry,

419
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,560
you're not allowed to share
planning because it's not good

420
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,560
for you need to have individual
things for your class and then

421
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,760
sharing planning is banned and
you're not allowed to do it.

422
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,960
And you end up with a very
similar workload to A1 form

423
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,400
entry school.
It's insanely and it's just, I

424
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,800
don't know where you want to
talk more about what we've seen

425
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,560
in terms of literally schools
that are like 2 streets away

426
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,240
from each other.
You can have a completely

427
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,400
different life as a teacher just
because of your.

428
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,200
Environment, I mean, yeah, like
I like I said, I kind of

429
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,600
experienced that for a bit.
And I will say when I left that

430
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,560
one momentary school after one
year, I did genuinely say to

431
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,000
myself, I will never in my whole
career ever work in A1

432
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,360
elementary school again.
That's how difficult I found

433
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,640
that and, and ultimately there
are loads of 1 momentary schools

434
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:46,640
and someone's got to work in
them.

435
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,440
That's what I was just going to
say, like someone's got to work

436
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:49,440
in them.
It's not going to be me, but

437
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,320
someone's got to do it.
And what should they just get?

438
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,080
They just.
The same amount of money they

439
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,360
just get.
The same pay and they just like

440
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,280
by default, it's not that the
school could do something and

441
00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,880
then by default they are doing
more work.

442
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,600
But you said some, some jobs in
schools don't scale.

443
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,599
No, there's no scalability.
It's like the history lead is

444
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,200
the history lead.
If you have 500 members of staff

445
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,440
or 4, like someone's the history
lead in the 500 school, you

446
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,720
might be able to share that out.
But in the in the when you scale

447
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,520
down, someone's still got to be
the history lead.

448
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,440
It doesn't it, it gets to a
minimum point, doesn't it, where

449
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,040
it's like someone still, like
you said, someone still has to

450
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,359
know all of the things.
Yeah, exactly.

451
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,599
And what, what, and are.
Just and are less able to share

452
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,119
it.
Yeah, it's just mad.

453
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,520
It's just mad when you think
about it and it's, it's a big

454
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,160
thing I think in teaching in
general.

455
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,680
It's just slept on the the
differences people talk about.

456
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,280
And what kind of gets me up a
bit is when we talk about stuff,

457
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,880
a lot of people seem really
incapable of understanding a

458
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,320
point of view that's different
to theirs that they've not

459
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,560
experienced.
So if people haven't experienced

460
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,320
being in A1 momentary school
before, some people can

461
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:49,840
empathise with it and try and
understand it.

462
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,400
Some people literally just don't
get it.

463
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:52,880
They're just like, well, in my
school it's fine.

464
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:54,520
Yeah.
It's like, yeah, OK, we could

465
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,560
list 4 things that's different
in your school as to why it's

466
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,840
fine, but that what they want to
do is wear it as a badge of

467
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,760
honour.
Like guys, I don't do any work

468
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,920
outside the school.
Look at me, aren't I the best

469
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,080
thing since sliced bread?
You know what?

470
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,280
So I would be the same if I was
in your situation.

471
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,760
Congratulations.
These people, although we've

472
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,840
talked about martyrs before and
people who love to love to wear

473
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,400
the badge of honour of the other
way around.

474
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,560
Of I do so much work, aren't I
the best person?

475
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,240
Oh, woe is me, aren't I the
aren't I someone who should be?

476
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,480
Oh, I do so much stuff.
I.

477
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,360
Never see my family.
OK, why is that great?

478
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,400
Like there are some people like
that, sure, but there are a lot

479
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,520
more people who are reluctant in
that situation who just, you

480
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,120
know, oh, I need a job and my
local school is not even one

481
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:38,440
form entry.
Maybe is, you know, mixed

482
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,440
classes.
I'm year 5-6 head of maths and

483
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:42,720
English and I've, it's like,
yeah.

484
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,560
What do you mean?
Like that job is incomparable

485
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,440
to.
If I look back at my role in the

486
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,480
fourth elementary school, when I
first started as a year 4

487
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,320
teacher, part of a maths hub, I
wasn't even needing maths.

488
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,000
I was just part of a maths hub.
I taught year 4 in a, in a with

489
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,480
three other teachers and we
share planning.

490
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:03,360
Yeah, incomparable to what I've
just described there.

491
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,560
And I think, you know, I think
this person's absolutely right.

492
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,280
They said just wonder if you
could like dive into this and

493
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,760
discuss this.
I think it's massive and the

494
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,600
more people who understand it,
the better.

495
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,640
In my opinion.
Your school is not the be all

496
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,800
and end all.
And you know, we've worked in

497
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,800
different schools and I've seen
different lots of workload and

498
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,040
it just increases probability
being a small school.

499
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:25,160
However, however, go on, in that
school, the 4th momentary school

500
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,560
was the worst workload we've
ever had, right?

501
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,240
So like going to that next.
So that's interesting.

502
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,000
I think we did start off by
saying I know I finished off,

503
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,680
then by saying it increases the
probability.

504
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I think there's lots of

505
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,160
factors that go into it.
Definitely because I also try to

506
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,800
start by saying it because that
was very, that was very like

507
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,920
rage bait comment there.
I've also worked in and know

508
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,200
lots of people that have worked
in like 4 elementary schools

509
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,680
where the workload is genuinely
amazing and they can actually go

510
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,240
home at like 4:00 every day
because they properly optimise

511
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,800
the fact that there's loads of
people able to do one job right

512
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:55,560
and they share it.
Probably.

513
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,080
We work, unfortunately in a
school where though we actually

514
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:01,800
initially, yeah, yeah, initially
a long time ago where we had the

515
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,280
privilege of being able to share
planning and, you know, take

516
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,200
advantage of the fact there's
lots of members of staff and you

517
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,680
don't, you know, doing one job
essentially.

518
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,560
But it just got filled with
other, other nonsense as well.

519
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,160
Like so, our workloads still got
increased and massively.

520
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,800
Probably in a way or it's like
in A1 momentary school, the

521
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,000
stuff that happened to us in
that school would absolutely

522
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,080
never happen because there
literally isn't any time left

523
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:24,080
that in A1 momentary school, our
time would have been completely

524
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,960
consumed by the fact that we're
subject leads and planning and

525
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,480
they just they wouldn't even it
would have been laughed out the

526
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,200
room if they tried to bring in
some of the initiatives from our

527
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:32,560
foreman school.
It would have been like wet.

528
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,880
Seriously.
Wait I'm already working here

529
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,720
till 6:00 everyday just doing
the bare minimum.

530
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,280
I'm taking my maths lesson.
Tomorrow.

531
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:39,480
Would you?
Of course I'm not.

532
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:40,520
Going to I can't do an
involvement.

533
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,280
Stick up.
Of course, I'm not going to do

534
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,320
that.
So it's interesting how some

535
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:49,080
schools can still, despite
having the better situation,

536
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,160
still just put a burden on their
staff of well, we know it.

537
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,720
We know your work life could be
great here.

538
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,880
But yeah, we thought of 17 other
things you can do instead at.

539
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,000
Least you're not in A1 form
School A, so why don't you do

540
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,920
all this extra stuff as well?
It's like, OK, it's how

541
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,360
leadership reacts to that
opportunity.

542
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,240
There's some leadership in very
small schools.

543
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:06,800
Do you know what?
Being a leader in a small

544
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,400
school, I don't know how you do
that.

545
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,240
Like because there's a certain
level, there's a certain amount

546
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,320
of work you need from your
staff, which automatically puts

547
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,560
your staff in a high workload
bracket because there's just few

548
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,840
of them.
And as a leader, like how do you

549
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,840
go about that?
Like I'd have, I'd have to be

550
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,480
saying things like, please don't
read, please be adaptable, use,

551
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,960
use lessons that are already
there, change things on the

552
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,360
spot.
That's how I dealt with workload

553
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:36,040
personally was I would spend as
my career went on, I spent less

554
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,000
and less time planning
meticulously, more and more time

555
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,400
just thinking, right, this is my
long term plan.

556
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,320
What am I doing today?
Here's a couple of sheets from

557
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,280
like literally from the year
before and the year before and

558
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,920
the year before, because guess
what I'm still doing adding

559
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,320
fractions with different
denominators.

560
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,960
It's I've still got to get the
kids to do the same thing.

561
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,280
But on the spot, I'd adapt and
I'd go off tangent and I'd go on

562
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,560
my whiteboard and I'd react to
the kids and I'd make a group.

563
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,040
That's where I earn my salt.
That's where I could trade my

564
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,400
literal physical time with my
expertise.

565
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,800
And and that was how I found
myself saving workload.

566
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,840
And I think as a leader, if you
can try and translate that to

567
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,800
your staff and give them the
trust they need, it can help

568
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,080
reduce workload and it can at
least do something to take a

569
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,800
little hit at when it's unfairly
balanced like in a small school.

570
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,400
Yeah, definitely.
It's a tricky position for a

571
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:21,280
leader.
Isn't it really hard?

572
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,160
Because it'll be very easy to
come across as toxic leader when

573
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,360
you know you've got six members
of staff working for you, you've

574
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:29,320
got 12 subjects that need to be
divvied out, and it's like, what

575
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,320
do you do?
What do I do?

576
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,360
Like they have to exist.
Yeah, the system is.

577
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:33,720
The system's broken.
Horrendous.

578
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,080
They're absolutely.
Interesting to hear.

579
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,200
I reckon there's some leader
that have thought of very

580
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,800
creative ways of making sure
that.

581
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,160
Give one person 12 ruin, ruin
one persons life for the benefit

582
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,120
of the night.
That one person you don't have

583
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,720
to teach.
You're just sorry.

584
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,320
No, I've just checked the
budget.

585
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,120
You have to teach you.
Have to teach as well.

586
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:53,640
Sorry.
It was like, sorry guys, sorry

587
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:54,520
guys.
Right.

588
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,240
Next question, is it the
expectation of Hltas higher

589
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,360
level teaching assistants to do
lots of planning for the cover

590
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:03,120
periods that they are required
to do?

591
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,760
I think in some schools it is it
shouldn't be right.

592
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,200
It absolutely should not be so
quite expectation.

593
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,200
Can you just?
Explain what for people who are

594
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,680
listening, thinking what on
earth you talking about?

595
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,520
What is a Hltas role?
What do they often do and how

596
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,000
can that be technical?
So, so obviously you've got your

597
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,800
Tasmania in class.
HLTAS are quite often expected

598
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,840
to be the ones that that cover
falls back to.

599
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,840
So if a teacher isn't available
for whatever reason, cover is

600
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,360
needed for that class.
Normally the first port of call

601
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:31,360
in a school where they don't
just get in supply all the time

602
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,520
is to go to HLTAS.
So HLTAS, can you cover this

603
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:35,560
session?
Oh yeah, brilliant.

604
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,360
So that that overrides.
You're not going to be a TA in

605
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,280
that classroom today.
You're going to go and cover

606
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,760
this teacher over here instead.
So that is essentially the role.

607
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,520
And in those situations, very
often planning doesn't really

608
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,920
come into it because it might be
that the teachers called in sick

609
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,080
that morning.
Exactly 99% of the time in my

610
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,480
career, planning was, was a week
ahead.

611
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:52,920
You know what I mean?
You've already got it on there.

612
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,040
You've got a partner teacher.
There's there's no expectation

613
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,800
of planning in that regard.
But also what HRT as are used

614
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,080
for very often is systemic
covering, not just fill in the

615
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,480
gaps when you can.
Are we can't get a supply

616
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,880
teacher in today, guys, sorry.
We'll just have to use your you

617
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,800
as a oh, it's cheaper.
Who would have thought it some

618
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,480
money as well?
Isn't that definitely not a

619
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,040
reason I'm actually doing this
and getting an HLTA to cover,

620
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,640
right?
Yeah, and not bothering to go to

621
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,440
supply.
There is also.

622
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,560
I've worked Hltas who, for
example, always do a Wednesday

623
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,920
afternoon in the class.
Sure, maybe that class teacher

624
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,480
is also the year group leader
and gets an afternoon out every

625
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:28,800
week to do the year group leader
duties.

626
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,640
Yep, potentially that cover
supervisor HLTA is going in to

627
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,400
cover ECT time for a newly
qualified teacher.

628
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,880
For example, when I was an INKT,
I had Mrs Laffey would come in

629
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,240
every Friday afternoon and would
do a lesson with my class that

630
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:43,240
afternoon.
Exactly the same.

631
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,000
Now in those situations, quite
often it is actually expected

632
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,560
and put onto the HLT as to plan
the lesson.

633
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,920
And what I've seen in my career
in all ways was that the HLTA is

634
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,880
also expected to mark
afterwards.

635
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,360
Yeah, and I've got huge problems
with both.

636
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,800
I I think that it should not be
the expectation that you have to

637
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,360
do either of those things.
What do you think?

638
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,280
I, I think so as well.
I want to get into your brain a

639
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,800
bit more because that's my gut
feeling.

640
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:11,720
I want to know what you're
thinking.

641
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,760
So do you think there's no
situation where ATA or HRTA

642
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,640
should be expected to plan a
mark?

643
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,360
No.
I personally don't think so, no,

644
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:22,800
unless you're going to
compensate them for.

645
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,440
It do you separate plan a mark
at all or are they?

646
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,400
Very much no.
I, I, I literally for me, I

647
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,960
separate time spent doing the
job, time outside of the job.

648
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,600
Yeah, right.
When are you planning?

649
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,440
When's that TA planning?
Yeah, well, it's certainly not

650
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,320
on PPA because they don't get
PPA and it shouldn't be outside

651
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,080
of their contracted hours
because unlike a teacher where

652
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,520
part of our literal contract
says we have to do additional

653
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,560
hours to our director time which
we can talk about whether that's

654
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,480
right or wrong, that does not
exist for HLTA.

655
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,720
So it's very simple for me.
Is it within the bounds of your

656
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,440
contract, yes or no?
Delivering the lesson?

657
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,480
Yes.
Well, they get a supplement for

658
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,000
delivering the lesson.
Barely anything like a pound

659
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,520
extra.
And that's to deliver the

660
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,640
lesson.
Yeah.

661
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,120
Yeah.
If that's if that becomes from

662
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:05,720
marking and planning as well, it
might as well.

663
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:06,920
It literally isn't worth the
money.

664
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,320
Like the paper it's written on.
Yeah, of course not.

665
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,280
So I, I very strongly think that
it comes down to simply is it

666
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,560
within your contract?
And if you are constantly

667
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,920
expected to plan your lessons, I
think you should be building the

668
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,280
school for that time.
Definitely.

669
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,960
You, well, you, you're not being
compensated for it at all.

670
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,680
And I strongly believe, and I
said this to every single

671
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,080
person, I don't know know what
you did in my whole career when

672
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,600
someone covered me and and like,
for example, I'd come back after

673
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,760
school, maybe I'd be in a
meeting and I come back after

674
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,520
the kids are gone and I see my
teaching assistant, my HLTA,

675
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,600
marking the books.
I'd say please go home right

676
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,880
now.
It is the end of your contract.

677
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,680
You're doing this for literally
nothing.

678
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,680
Even I sometimes resent marking.
And I'm literally paid to do a

679
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,840
bit of extra outside.
You're not paid anything.

680
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,240
Go home now.
Yeah, yeah.

681
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,840
And they'd go, oh, no, it's
fine, it's fine.

682
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,280
And sometimes they'd want to do
it and OK, wait, crack on then.

683
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,080
I kind of like linger around the
corner and just wait till I can

684
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,160
see.
I'd do virtual signalling.

685
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,360
I'd wait till they're on the
last book.

686
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,480
On the last book.
Every time it's half four.

687
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,840
I've been there since 4:00.
Bloody.

688
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,080
I'll hurry up.
Last four o'clock watching reels

689
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,040
on my phone peek around the
corner.

690
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,440
Oh, have you, you bloody mark?
I told you last time not to mark

691
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,240
on the last book.
Just finish that one.

692
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,360
Go off, go on, go home.
Hello.

693
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,720
Hello.
No, I'll tell you what one thing

694
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,680
because I'm because in all
honesty, most like if the school

695
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,080
says they've got to mark, we can
disagree with that at the end of

696
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,040
the day that they're obviously
probably thinking the head

697
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,880
teacher that gets to decide
that's not you and they'll be

698
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,680
thanks for saying that, but I am
going to mark them because.

699
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,280
I literally have to.
But you know what I'd say?

700
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,800
Always said to that.
I'll mark them, don't worry.

701
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,080
Yeah, yeah, sure.
And then and then.

702
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,560
I wouldn't.
Market when the comes round, it

703
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,000
says.
Bloody, bloody cover.

704
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,840
Honestly, the TA.
Again.

705
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:44,320
Rubbish at marketing.
I said you got a market.

706
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,040
She was like, no, honestly.
One to the butts yeah well we

707
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,440
had I think I don't if it was
school policies to be fair, if

708
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,080
it was just in year 6, we just
did this.

709
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,960
But whenever they covered I
literally it was just normal

710
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,640
that they didn't really market
anyway.

711
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,160
They just kind of put in a thing
that said covered by TA and then

712
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,240
it was sort of like a nod
towards if anyone does look at

713
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,840
the books, are you really going
to argue yeah or it was that was

714
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,400
taught by ATA.
Do you want them to go back and

715
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:08,640
market and pay them for it or
not?

716
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,440
Best best version I think of it
is that.

717
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,680
Probably because that took them
honestly 5 minutes.

718
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,240
And I would always say again,
I'm not in the school anymore,

719
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,680
so I don't in any school.
So whatever I'd say to them in

720
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,440
the lesson, just go and put a
little tick, yeah.

721
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,720
Then it's done it.
Don't even read it because you

722
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,880
know what markings a waste of
time most of the time.

723
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,800
Even for me, it's the literal
teacher who sees them every day.

724
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,840
Yeah.
So yeah, and the only benefit I

725
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,560
get out of marking it is because
I'm the teacher that sees them

726
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:31,480
every day.
Exactly.

727
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,360
You're the CA who's not going to
be teaching them now for another

728
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:35,040
three weeks.
So there's literally no benefit

729
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,840
to you marking these books
because you're not even going to

730
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,560
give them the feedback.
But I'll stand by, look at the

731
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,560
book and look at them to see
your techniques to the work.

732
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,320
Oh well, they can look at all
the other pages filled with my

733
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,800
markings go over and they won't
look anyway because they don't

734
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,560
care.
They don't care.

735
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,400
Making art problems that just
don't exist.

736
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,200
So yeah, HLT as should not be by
default, should not be planning,

737
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,280
should not be marking.
If you work in a school where

738
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,880
that's happening, maybe, maybe
they're getting paid for it and

739
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,040
that part of the deal.
I don't know.

740
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,160
Probably not though.
OK no great next question.

741
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,880
I am a Teach First trainee in my
first year.

742
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,840
Just found out my school is
closing.

743
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,960
Just my luck.
So I'm applying for loads of

744
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,360
jobs for ECT one for September.
Any top tips for interviews,

745
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,720
especially how to prep to be
observed while teaching a random

746
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,200
class would be much appreciated.
Love the podcast, I listen to it

747
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,640
in the mornings while prepping
resources and always gives me a

748
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,400
giggle.
It's actually quite funny.

749
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,680
Yeah, my favourite quote.
Yeah, actually quite funny.

750
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,040
That's in our Instagram bio we
had the other day that we

751
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,200
mentioned.
Love it.

752
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,240
Oh, I mean that does.
I do really feel sorry for this

753
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,720
person because like at the end
of the day they probably thought

754
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,560
at least I've got this secure I
cannot have to worry about.

755
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,600
Getting the whole point to Teach
First is that you're in the

756
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,160
school, you're ready, you can.
So man, that really that is

757
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,360
frustrating.
Big time.

758
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,760
But in terms of tips, I mean, I
don't know if you listened to

759
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,520
our episode recently, but learn
from my mistakes of where I went

760
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,080
to do interviews and I was
trying to be too flashy almost.

761
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,640
It was, it was ridiculous.
Like looking back, I kind of

762
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,680
wish I had just done a pretty
standard like lesson, but just

763
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,320
really try to show my other
skills through teaching.

764
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:06,880
Absolutely.
I think now about like what I'd

765
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,920
look for if I was looking for a
teacher in my made-up school.

766
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,320
In my head really I'm I want
them to be in front of the kids

767
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,040
because I just literally I want
to see how they interact with

768
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,160
them.
I want to see how they adapt on

769
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,520
the spot, how they interact with
the children.

770
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,640
Just general things like that.
I would probably the lowest on

771
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,280
my list would be how have they
resourced the lesson?

772
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,400
Maybe, maybe it's not for other
people, but for me personally

773
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,320
I'd be like.
No, I'm with you.

774
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,600
Because resources have 10 a
penny.

775
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:29,960
Yeah.
And loads of scores now give out

776
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,920
schemes and hit, you know,
literally the thing about maths

777
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,720
in our school, we were like,
well, here's a bunch of stuff.

778
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,520
Yeah, but you're the teacher.
Go off and do it.

779
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,800
Like it's more about the vibe.
Yeah, definitely.

780
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,760
And vibe.
Vibe sounds ridiculous, but I

781
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,360
mean, vibe in a very
professional way.

782
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,800
Yeah.
As in how you are with the kids,

783
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,640
Right, 100%.
So if you were, if you were

784
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,920
hiring someone, what is the,
what is the one thing you'd look

785
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,160
for just to try and give this
person?

786
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,000
Like if you had to pick one
thing, you were like, do you

787
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,760
know what?
I'm not saying the other stuff

788
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,680
is unimportant, but I'm sat
here, you're in front of the

789
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,000
class.
There's a group of 30 kids

790
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,440
you've never seen before.
Yep.

791
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,080
What you're looking for?
How quickly can they captivate

792
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,920
the children?
As in, just have all the

793
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,600
children really interested in
what you're saying.

794
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,920
Is it their fault if they can't
do that with a class they've

795
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,400
never seen before and they're a
brand new training teacher?

796
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,280
Because I, I like, I, I can
imagine there's a lot of really,

797
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,560
really good and newer teachers
who might struggle with that

798
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,920
and, and experienced teachers
who might walk in and actually

799
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:22,800
struggle with that straight
away.

800
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,040
Do you think?
Yeah, because I think captivate,

801
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,640
it depends what you mean by
that, because I think it can be

802
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,240
tricky to captivate a class even
when you're 567 years in.

803
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,000
And I think you can, if you're
judging someone on that, you

804
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,320
might be judging them based on
the actions of the kids in front

805
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,080
of them, which is not fair on
them necessarily.

806
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,600
How they react to it maybe?
Yeah, I guess it's all

807
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,640
proportionate, isn't it?
You're right.

808
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,240
It's in terms of how you act.
I think if, you know, it's a

809
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,680
tricky class as the person who's
like doing the observation, then

810
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,080
you can factor that in.
There will still be differences,

811
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,400
I think, in how people literally
act in front of the children and

812
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,240
it will yield different results.
So whatever that scale is in

813
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,200
terms of how those results yield
differently, I'd be looking for

814
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,200
the teacher who most
effectively, even if it's 1%,

815
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,800
because, you know, the classes,
they're just horrendous and they

816
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,560
don't want to listen to anyone.
Anything he says.

817
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,040
I'd be looking for the teacher
still or for me, who engages

818
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,880
those kids the most, who gets
the kids the most interested

819
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,560
through their personality,
through the way they speak,

820
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,120
their intonation, the stuff that
you bring to the table in terms

821
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,480
of like, wow, the children to
want to be in that room, like.

822
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,600
And I totally appreciate the
fact that that can massively

823
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:23,560
change depending on the
children.

824
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,000
But like I said, it's in
proportion though.

825
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,720
Yeah, Yeah, sure.
If you're comparing 5 different

826
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,360
interviewees, I'd be looking for
the one that does that the most.

827
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,720
Yeah.
No, definitely.

828
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:31,560
I'd take that.
What about you?

829
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:32,960
I, I, I?
Well, the thing I don't know,

830
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,080
the thing I'd look for more is
that I'd be looking at their

831
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,880
nature, their calmness that, you
know, it's easy to flap again in

832
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,280
an interview and worry about
stuff.

833
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,120
And at the end of the day,
you've got to understand that it

834
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,120
is just a 10 minute snippet of
what is potentially like a

835
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,480
really important thing for that
person.

836
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,120
So as, as someone you know, in
that interview looking, I

837
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,720
wouldn't be judging them harshly
on things that I think could be

838
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,880
explained for the fact it's a 10
minute interview and they're

839
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,080
trying to get a job.
I'd be looking for stuff like

840
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,880
deeper than that.
And it's literally like, you

841
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,520
know, how they interact with the
children, whether that's because

842
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,360
they're telling someone if, if
someone's being noisy or loud or

843
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,400
not captivated, that in itself
doesn't actually bother me.

844
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,080
It's what the teacher does to
react to that.

845
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,000
It's whether they think that
that's OK and then crack on and

846
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,080
whatever.
Or if they maybe have a quiet

847
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,680
word with the person or maybe
they're having a talk with that

848
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,080
person over there.
It's hard to build that in 10

849
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,080
minutes.
But I think the way you try and

850
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,600
do it at least is what I'd be
looking for.

851
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,680
And I think the other bit of
advice I'd say directly to this

852
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,160
person who's doing interviews is
please don't try and deliver the

853
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,040
best lesson of your life in this
interview.

854
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,720
Yeah, it's true.
But in doing that, you're

855
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,120
setting yourself up to fail and
you'll probably over plan

856
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,040
massively because what you need
to demonstrate is you as an

857
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,640
individual, the actual lesson
itself.

858
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:53,560
You know what?
You're people.

859
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,320
I see people all the time saying
what task can I do for, for

860
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,680
multiplying fractions that's
really interactive and shows off

861
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,600
a really good understanding.
And I'm like, OK, that's a nice,

862
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,120
lovely question.
And it's great you're thinking

863
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,040
about that.
And the task you give does need

864
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,880
to be good, but you've literally
never taught these kids before

865
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,800
and you need to make a lot of
assumptions on their previous

866
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,239
knowledge.
Do something quite basic, have a

867
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,440
high ceiling, so low threshold,
high ceiling, whatever it's

868
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,840
called where everyone can do it
but those who are good can

869
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:21,920
really excel.
Yep.

870
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,760
Like writing tasks are really
good for that in English.

871
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,360
If it comes to maths it could be
some kind of investigation.

872
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,440
Just create an environment where
everyone can have a go and then

873
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,719
you can show off how you can
foster your understanding of

874
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,679
children and quickly pick up on
things and support that child or

875
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,800
tell that child to make sure
they're paying attention and

876
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,840
why.
Make sure it's a task that

877
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,719
allows you to show off.
Definitely shows off your

878
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,199
nature, but you said complete
your nature.

879
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,639
I think that's very similar to
what I was thinking, to be fair,

880
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:47,440
in terms when I was saying how
you can captivate them.

881
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,600
I was kind of thinking the same
thing.

882
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,239
How how quickly can you use your
ability and your nature and your

883
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:53,520
ACT?
Because it's all an act, really

884
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,200
with children, to show the
interviewer that you're really

885
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,000
good in a classroom with kids,
genuinely like.

886
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,560
I think what you said is, is.
I do genuinely think you meant

887
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,960
the same thing.
The way it's phrased sometimes

888
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,800
is, it's phrased as I'm looking
at the kids to see if they're

889
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,680
engaged because like, I'm going
to judge you based on how

890
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,240
engaged these kids are.
I, I, I, all I'm saying is with

891
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:15,680
that, I'm like, oh, that's,
you're going to miss the mark

892
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,120
there quite a lot.
Whereas if you frame it instead

893
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,920
as I'm going to look to see how
the teacher reacts to the class

894
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,840
and whether the class are
immediately engaged or not, OK,

895
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,000
that can change because you do a
great lesson later or you can do

896
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,440
a worse lesson.
But what won't change is how you

897
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,040
react to situations.
So I'd be looking at how the

898
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,000
person reacts rather than how
the kids are doing.

899
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,920
And it's the same, it's exactly
the same thing.

900
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,400
But I think that framing is
important and I think for the

901
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,520
person doing the interview,
remember they're there to see

902
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,960
what you're like as a person.
If something goes wrong, they're

903
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,880
not there to judge you on it
going wrong.

904
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,120
They're there to judge you on
how do you react to it going

905
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,240
wrong.
And that is going to show your

906
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:53,480
best side.
I've been in classroom before

907
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,840
for my interview for my most
recent school where I did a

908
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,560
lesson and the Interactive
Whiteboard didn't work.

909
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,120
OK.
And still to this day, I've not

910
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,480
asked, but I still to this day
at the back of my head think it

911
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,320
was a purposeful unplugging to
just see, just to see.

912
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,600
I, I maybe, maybe I'm a
conspiracy theorist here and I

913
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,960
love the people at the school,
but I, it's the kind of thing

914
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,880
that I think actually, do you
know what that's interesting to

915
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,520
me as someone hiring?
What when something goes because

916
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,400
something will go wrong in a
perfect environment of an

917
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,200
interview, OK, great.
You can go.

918
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,760
Well, that doesn't tell me much.
What tells me more about you is

919
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:28,840
what happens when stuff goes
wrong.

920
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,680
So when I reacted, I just
spinned it off and I was like,

921
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,880
cool, we're just doing it on
paper now.

922
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:35,320
That was probably a positive.
Yeah, definitely.

923
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,600
So I, I that's all I'm saying is
it's it's how you react to the

924
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,040
situation.
Don't be put off when things

925
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,320
necessarily go wrong.
Don't try and do too much at

926
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:43,680
once.
It's about you and the kids

927
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:44,840
Keep.
It relatively simple have a bit

928
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,800
of a backup plan for stuff like
that in your head of OK, what if

929
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,480
this doesn't go wrong?
Because like when I had like I

930
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,000
said before, when I had that
lesson that I did on a that I

931
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,360
needed a projector for, I
planned the entire lesson around

932
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,240
this projector working all these
little bits of paper and stuff I

933
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:57,400
was going to put on it and I
just had no idea what to do when

934
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,800
the projector didn't work.
It wasn't I loved how we both

935
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,560
had an experience of the like
the big bit of temp in the room

936
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,480
not working.
I just didn't know what to do.

937
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:05,600
I literally didn't know what to
do.

938
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,440
And that threw me off and I
didn't get the job Like and I

939
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,040
because I'd overplay.
I'd spent so much time thinking

940
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,160
about precisely this like
perfect play in my head of what

941
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,880
this lesson was going to be.
Never once did I think about how

942
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,520
I'd adapt to the kids, how I'd
approach certain things.

943
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,800
It was just all to me about the
resourcing and actually that was

944
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,120
the wrong way around.
Absolutely for sure.

945
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,280
Good question.
OK, let's finish off.

946
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,360
Go on.
One last question all.

947
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:26,960
Right.
Do you want to read it?

948
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,360
Or I go when you go.
OK, thank you.

949
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,680
Quick maths question here and
whilst you're on the subject of

950
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,960
maths, you can book a free demo
now for Mathsu helping

951
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,520
arithmetic fluency in your
school.

952
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,840
Down below there's a link, we'll
show it to you for nothing.

953
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,200
Book a time and we'll see how we
can help your school improve

954
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,960
their arithmetic fluency.
That's good, right?

955
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,040
That was all right.
Yeah.

956
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,840
Fluent keep working.
It was it a fluent 1?

957
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,720
It was quite fluent fluid.
Maths question What do you make

958
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:50,480
of maths?
I'm joking.

959
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,680
What do you make of wreck,
Wreck, wreck, wreck, wreck,

960
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,240
wreck, Wreck, Wreck, wreck,
wreck, Wrecker, Wrecker,

961
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:58,320
Wrecker, wrecker a wreck, a
wreck, a red neck, a wreck, a

962
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,840
red neck, a wreck, a What do you
make of the wreck and a wreck?

963
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,280
I can't make a head and or tail
of them.

964
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:05,040
You're right, I'm just.
A broken record.

965
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,800
I got like stuck in a little
wreck.

966
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,080
Eminem over here.
What?

967
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,840
What's the?
Wreck and wreck, cable wreck.

968
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,640
They are those maths, maths good
they have right?

969
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,880
OK, basically 5 red beads, 5
white beads side by side, 2

970
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,320
layers.
So there's 20 beads all together

971
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,520
on high red wooden.
Frame.

972
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,040
Wooden frame.
Like an Abacus, almost.

973
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,280
Yeah, very, very sort of
similar.

974
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,600
I personally have never used
them, but I do think it's

975
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,680
because I see them generally as
something for like much, much

976
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,200
lower down.
That's all for early numbers

977
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,160
since.
So like I imagine they're used a

978
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,840
lot in reception in year 1,
maybe even year 2 as well.

979
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,240
And that should probably be used
more probably.

980
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:43,880
Yeah, it's a really interesting
question because I think there's

981
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,440
lots of manipulatives from apps
out there that have a lot of

982
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,320
overlap in terms of what they're
used for.

983
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,440
Like you think of like A10
frame, right?

984
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,000
I think of A10 frame and reckon
Rex, I'm like, OK, they're both

985
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,400
kind of there for number sense.
Like number monster 10 is like a

986
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,520
huge thing they're used for.
Do I think you're a bad teacher

987
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,000
if you only use one of them?
No.

988
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,000
Do I think it's it's might be
good to use both?

989
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,400
Yes, but like it's a small
thing.

990
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,720
So I don't think automatically
if someone says what do you make

991
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:10,600
of them?
I can't make head or tail.

992
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,400
I don't think that makes you a
bad teacher because you're

993
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,080
probably you're probably it's
not like you're not addressing

994
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,720
number bonds at all or you're
not addressing how near double

995
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:18,720
S.
So reckon Rex are really good

996
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,480
for things like because it's
5:00 and 5:00 sabotizing so we

997
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,640
can recognise 5 quite quickly.
If you have 5 Reds and 1 white

998
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,280
one, we can see that 6 and you
can make the .1 more than 5 is

999
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,640
6.
If on both rows you have 5 and

1000
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,200
1, five and one, you can very
quickly be like, OK, two sixes.

1001
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,080
How does that make 12?
Well, it's two fives, which we

1002
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,760
know makes 10 one and one makes
12.

1003
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,920
And you can really break down
that like early, early number

1004
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,760
sense.
And it's fantastic for

1005
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,640
foundations, right?
But you can do that with other,

1006
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,160
other things as well.
I always think of a really good

1007
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,200
comparison quiz and air rods.
That was something that I know

1008
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,720
when we trained we were like we
were sold down.

1009
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:55,120
This thing of like quiz and air
rods are the best.

1010
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:56,600
You could do everything with a
quiz and air.

1011
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,520
Everything look at the I can do
ratio in year 6 all the way down

1012
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,800
to number bonds in year 1.
And it was like, Oh my God.

1013
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,280
It's the best thing ever.
And really I used them a few

1014
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,760
times like I didn't, I didn't
use them religiously like I

1015
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,280
thought I was going to because
actually I found other resources

1016
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,720
that were doing the same.
I was getting the same effect

1017
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:13,920
out of them.
I just preferred using them.

1018
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,080
So I think my summary here, and
I'll let you come in at some

1019
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,360
point is that what do I make of
them?

1020
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,040
I think they're a really, really
good resource.

1021
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,920
And I do think you, if you're
using them, you have to use them

1022
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,720
a lot to get like a really good
bit of learning out of it.

1023
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:30,360
And if you're not using them,
it's not a problem because

1024
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,720
you're probably doing it with
something else.

1025
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:36,320
If you're using quiz an air or
or what they called the holes, I

1026
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,280
can't think, Oh my God, why?
Can't I let you believe?

1027
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,440
I think we struggle.
Oh my God, why can't I think

1028
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,920
what I called?
No, no new new.

1029
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:43,360
Macon.
Oh my.

1030
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,480
God.
I could not think of that word.

1031
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,200
Reckon Rex is like taking over
my brain.

1032
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,840
You can use new Macon.
Reckon, reckon, reckon.

1033
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,960
Counters where you flip over 10
frames, numicon, all this stuff

1034
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,160
is all really good.
But.

1035
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,920
I do generally find that
teachers will stick to 1 and

1036
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,280
they'll be like, I'm going to
really use this in detail and

1037
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,800
the kids can get used to this
conceptually.

1038
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:02,800
Is that good practise?
Help me.

1039
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,520
I, I think it's good practise to
dive into a resource.

1040
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,360
I think it's bad practise to
superficially use 5 resources.

1041
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,120
Like if you use or if you use,
you've got Recon out once a

1042
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,600
month and you've got the Numicon
out once a month and the

1043
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,000
Quizenaire out once a month.
I'm like, I don't think that's

1044
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,560
good practise.
I think it's better practise to

1045
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,120
really get into one and use that
resource thoroughly.

1046
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,920
Doesn't mean you can't use
others, but use at least one of

1047
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,800
them thoroughly.
Absolutely.

1048
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,920
And I think you've summed that
up nicely where the issue isn't,

1049
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,760
you know, you're not using wreck
and wreck.

1050
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,240
So like, what on earth can you
do?

1051
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,600
The issue?
The the issue is are you're not

1052
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,000
using any resources at all to
visualise number or understand

1053
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:40,120
them.
But like, if you're doing it,

1054
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,800
you can do it in lots of ways.
So if you can't make head in the

1055
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,760
tail, then fine.
Do you know what I actually

1056
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,640
think using a wreck and wreck
without training right?

1057
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,600
He's weirdly hearing you say it
properly.

1058
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,280
Or no, you're still not saying
it properly.

1059
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:52,320
Am I not?
Wreck and wreck.

1060
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,040
Wreck and wreck and wreck.
You know you.

1061
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,280
I think using one of them
without training or

1062
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,280
understanding it properly is
worse than not using it at all.

1063
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,880
Yeah, almost definitely.
So if you don't make head in the

1064
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:01,440
tail of it, don't use it.
A bit of training, watch a

1065
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:02,880
video.
Yeah, a bit of CPD.

1066
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,760
Plenty of YouTube videos by the
way if you just literally.

1067
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,680
Search top dog tutoring loads
don't think we.

1068
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,080
Got on on that one we.
Were in school the other day and

1069
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,640
someone goes.
My son loves your videos.

1070
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:14,360
But yeah.
Oh I agree though, training is

1071
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,040
very important.
If you just get it out and guess

1072
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,080
how to use it, you're probably
not using it to its fullest.

1073
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,800
No for sure for.
Sure, good.

1074
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,480
Always love a maths question and
that's for sure, Hayden.

1075
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,160
Very quickly, before we move on
to the last question, what's

1076
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,600
your favourite maths
manipulative?

1077
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,680
Place value counters.
I just use them so much

1078
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,680
interesting.
Just love them, you Deans.

1079
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,440
They oh.
Can I change my heart?

1080
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:36,640
No, too late.
I want Deans.

1081
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,160
I like them to all be the same
size, even though they're

1082
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,000
different.
It's hard to Deans.

1083
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,480
Deans are #1 can't change it.
No.

1084
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,560
All right, fair enough.
You can't change it.

1085
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,080
I'm just.
I'm slightly more advanced than

1086
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:47,320
you.
That's.

1087
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,160
You know it's also good as.
Well, yeah, fine, I'll say that

1088
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,440
I love using Deans all the way
through and when in year 4 you

1089
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,120
start doing temps and hundreds
Deans are so good because the

1090
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,560
100 what becomes one?
Yeah, yeah.

1091
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,440
Because you've done it only, I
mean, if you've done Deans for

1092
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,600
so long, can the kids really
wrap their head around the fact

1093
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,720
that that's like, not just 100?
Anymore not using it

1094
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:03,600
superficially.
Exactly.

1095
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,320
You've got to do it all the time
and but as soon as you get that

1096
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,280
100 block out, not only is it
great for decimals, even before

1097
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:11,760
that, it's great for number
bonds to 100.

1098
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,000
Yeah.
So 43 plus what is 100?

1099
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,640
Get 100 block Dean in front of
the kids, give them loads of

1100
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,480
10's and ones getting to build
43 and then count what's left.

1101
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,960
Count in 10s, count in one.
So good, so good.

1102
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:24,200
Right.
Last question.

1103
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,440
This is about behaviour charts.
So let me just give you this

1104
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,600
very quickly.
What do we feel about using

1105
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,360
behaviour charts in class?
My school is implementing 1 and

1106
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,520
I feel like the I'm the only one
that's against it by maybe one

1107
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,200
other member of SLT, but we're
going along with it anyway.

1108
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,560
I was running off the names to
children it wouldn't work with

1109
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:41,840
and then a colleague said well
what would you do instead?

1110
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,360
I don't actually have a counter
argument, but I just feel like

1111
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,240
it's not good.
Yeah, this is interesting.

1112
00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:51,480
Me and you have spent our whole
careers like not debating, but

1113
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,240
just like maybe bickering
slightly about whether we should

1114
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:56,040
include behaviour charts.
I kind of want to go to you

1115
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:57,360
first, right, Because I'm
thinking about this.

1116
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,520
Do you do you think behaviour
charts are generally not good

1117
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,680
like we have at the front and
it's just some sort of like

1118
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,680
table to follow and kids names
go up or whatever.

1119
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,360
Like what's your opinion
generally on behaviour charts?

1120
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:14,800
Negative behaviour charts can
get in the bin, right?

1121
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,360
That's my opinion yeah, I I
think actively we shouldn't do

1122
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,680
that.
I have used in my career

1123
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,760
constantly positive praise,
right, positive affirmation and

1124
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:26,960
that can be public displays of
that as well.

1125
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:29,640
Even with a name on the board
can be a huge carrot for a child

1126
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,800
to work hard, right.
I understand even there'll be

1127
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,120
some people who go to the INF
degree there and say well in

1128
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,240
doing a +1 you're implementing
that.

1129
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:39,200
Everyone else is implying
everyone else is negative.

1130
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,840
I don't think it works like
that, like.

1131
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,080
There's a neutral.
Ground surely I think so in

1132
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,240
terms of I'm my my in my
practise and I was always was

1133
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:49,520
very positive and praising
people and I I liked, you know,

1134
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:50,720
praising people for doing the
right thing.

1135
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:53,200
That seemed to work for me and
my class and the other children

1136
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,120
who weren't necessarily paving
well then.

1137
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,560
Wanted to, but the schools we
worked in though did have like a

1138
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,320
behaviour, some sort of
behaviour system at least where

1139
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,520
there was some sort of
negativity in terms of names on

1140
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,360
boards or yellow cards or ticks
or whatever like.

1141
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,960
Nonsense, though, they don't.
You did use them though, didn't?

1142
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:08,520
You.
They don't?

1143
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,880
Well, eventually, no.
Right.

1144
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,840
Genuinely.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, honestly.

1145
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,960
But eventually, no, I just
didn't.

1146
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:14,800
Do that.
OK, that's interesting.

1147
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,240
I just, I didn't know that
because obviously I know we

1148
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:17,560
worked in the schools.
I'm like, I know they exist.

1149
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,640
So it's all right.
I'm not a teacher there anymore.

1150
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,960
I, I, this is maybe where people
call me up for being hypocrite

1151
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:25,960
because I do think consistency
is really important.

1152
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:33,120
But, you know, we didn't have to
like names on the board.

1153
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:36,800
I just didn't like personally.
So it just got to the point in

1154
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,760
my career where I thought, I
think I can still implement the

1155
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,920
behaviour policy and follow
through of warnings that can be

1156
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,120
verbal and individual and talk
to the kids and then if they're

1157
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:46,600
disrupting the class, they get
sent out of the room.

1158
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,680
Yeah, I get the idea of it being
on the board was always that

1159
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,720
it's like a very visual marker
for the child and they can see

1160
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:53,440
their names there and it's a
reminder to them constantly.

1161
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,720
I just personally felt that I
knew my class well enough to

1162
00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:59,280
know children who needed that
reminder, and I would just

1163
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,800
remind them personally and make
sure that they were behaving.

1164
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,160
I didn't see it as a net game
for my kids, right?

1165
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,040
Everything I choose to do always
with my classes because I think

1166
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,320
it's better for the kids or not
sure.

1167
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:10,920
That's always where it comes
from.

1168
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,120
And it's not like, well, you
know, that guy Dylan doesn't

1169
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,760
believe in behaviour charts, so
he doesn't do it.

1170
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,920
It's like, well, no, I don't.
I don't like behaviour charts

1171
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:20,920
because I know it doesn't have a
positive impact on my class.

1172
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,840
It always comes stems from that.
And that's the important thing.

1173
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,640
I'd say I don't personally like
negative behaviour charts on the

1174
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,080
wall.
I don't like it.

1175
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,160
Well, the first school is
interesting because the first

1176
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,640
school we worked at when we
started there very much had a

1177
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,280
pretty standard like names on
board sort of thing for like

1178
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,680
good things, but also for if you
want a warning, right?

1179
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,520
And it was just very much you
just write the name on the board

1180
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:45,120
next to a certain thing.
And I remember because after a

1181
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,560
while we got told to stop doing
that.

1182
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,000
And I remember thinking, why?
Why stop doing this?

1183
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,080
It's useful to know like for me
even to keep track of like,

1184
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,640
who's on the warning.
So I had a particularly naughty

1185
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,960
class and like 5 or 6 kids that
would constantly be doing the

1186
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,640
wrong thing and.
They're constantly on the board,

1187
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:57,680
right?
Yeah, constantly on.

1188
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:58,520
The board?
Well, that's the point of.

1189
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,520
Being on the board, I agree now,
like in retrospect, but I

1190
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,880
remember at the time they were
saying psychologically it's a

1191
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:04,240
net loss.
They were like, there is

1192
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,360
actually no, like there's no
actual net win to having their

1193
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,600
names on the board all the time.
And I was like, Oh yeah, I was

1194
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,000
just so woke, so woke.
I remember literally thinking,

1195
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,440
this is so like, this is
ridiculous.

1196
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,200
It's gone too far.
But I don't know, you know, I

1197
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,680
still, there's still a part of
me where I'm like, is it a bit

1198
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,640
over the top?
Like is it really that bad to

1199
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,880
have a kid's name on the board?
Like if it helps me keep track

1200
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,120
of.
Write down that and.

1201
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,080
Some kids, some kids do react to
that.

1202
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,520
I think, oh God, fine, I don't
want my name on there.

1203
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,080
Fine.
And if some kids react to it,

1204
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,120
then why not?
Why not do it with that kid?

1205
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,200
Yeah, well, that kids react to
it, right?

1206
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:37,920
And that's, that's what I,
that's what I mean.

1207
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,360
So I what do you value more?
And I value consistency more.

1208
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,000
So I consistently didn't do it
because I, you know, I, I, it's

1209
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,200
always about as it's not a 0 sum
game, there's going to be

1210
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,480
negatives and positives and you
have to decide which one's best

1211
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,240
for your class, right?
And I just found personally that

1212
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,600
from my career I did it for
however long it didn't.

1213
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,560
It wasn't really a good thing to
constantly use my board as a

1214
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,280
public display of good and bad
behaviour.

1215
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:02,960
Like shame.
Yeah.

1216
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,080
I didn't like it.
I didn't like it because it kind

1217
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,600
of equated behaviour as well
because you had to be

1218
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,960
consistent.
So if someone shouted out, they

1219
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,440
put their name on the board and
then someone else shouted out

1220
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,480
and their name didn't go on the
board because you went well,

1221
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,480
actually I know what you're
shouting out because you're over

1222
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,240
stimulated.
You've got, I understand it's

1223
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:21,360
part of your, you know, your
EHCP.

1224
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,320
Or you just missed it but you're
not perfect.

1225
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,400
Exactly, whatever it might be.
And then there's a sense of

1226
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,600
injustice suddenly in the class
that I've created for doing

1227
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:28,120
this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1228
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,680
It's like, you have to be so on
it and perfect if you're going

1229
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:31,920
to have that as your gold
standard.

1230
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,040
And I felt like I personally
wasn't living up to that and it

1231
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,480
was just causing more division
in my class.

1232
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,800
And behaviour through other
systemic, consistent ways could

1233
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,560
still be controlled.
And it didn't necessarily mean

1234
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:44,800
there was a behaviour chart in.
The wall.

1235
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,920
What do you think about
individual behaviour charts?

1236
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,160
Like when children, maybe that
behaviour is particularly like

1237
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,440
noted as particularly poor and
sometimes people have like their

1238
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,720
own little child on their table.
It's just for them and like or

1239
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:57,200
or maybe they have to do like a
report.

1240
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:58,960
I mean, like secondary school is
not quite common with that where

1241
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,880
it's like you're on report now
kid, because you've been

1242
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,400
naughty.
You've got to get a little stamp

1243
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,240
in your thing every day to show
that you've been behaving right.

1244
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,080
What do you think about those
kind of individual systems?

1245
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,840
Quick story on that my class was
put on report in in in secondary

1246
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,400
school class report my entire
class.

1247
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,680
That's like that's level bad.
Because it was like the class

1248
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,920
were awful and they wanted to
choose someone sensible to carry

1249
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,280
the report card around.
Or was it?

1250
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,960
Who do you think they chose it?
They chose me, right?

1251
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,400
So I had a report card in my
blazer.

1252
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,840
I went to my nan's after school.
My mum came to pick me up, pick

1253
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,280
my blazer up and oh, what's this
pink slip in your in your

1254
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,520
pocket?
No saw.

1255
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,880
Thought I was on report.
You got in trouble.

1256
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,920
So I got it.
I got bollocked by my mum.

1257
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,200
Well, upset because I was like,
they chose me.

1258
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:38,640
Yeah, I know.
I'm looking.

1259
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:39,840
I'll look.
After you.

1260
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,320
Ironically, I'm the only good
one.

1261
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,800
Yeah, literally.
So I had it for the whole class.

1262
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,240
Yeah, and I was the pink report
card and my mum went mental and

1263
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,360
I was like, I like mid man.
I was like, I need to wait for

1264
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,960
you to finish to try to explain.
This Yeah, it's not actually me,

1265
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,320
mum, yeah, but it is my old
class and I'm now the teacher's

1266
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,440
pet because I'm now like one of
my.

1267
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,560
My mum's bollocked me, my class
hate me.

1268
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:01,760
Yeah, and I'm one goes.
Here you go.

1269
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,240
Can you give us a good score,
please?

1270
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:06,720
Yeah.
So no, I don't think they work.

1271
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,320
And it's because of trauma.
Yeah, fair enough though.

1272
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,040
Like that's a legit experience.
But.

1273
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,680
The individual ones, right?
And I'm gonna rock the boat

1274
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:15,320
here.
Maybe.

1275
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:21,360
I probably taught in my 10 year
career that at some point in my

1276
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,800
class in total, there's probably
about 8 kids who are on a

1277
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,000
personal report.
Yeah, maybe that's even.

1278
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:26,960
Maybe it's six.
Yeah.

1279
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,440
Yeah, yeah, doesn't.
Happen a lot.

1280
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,960
Doesn't happen a lot.
Maybe one a year.

1281
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:32,240
Sometimes none.
Right.

1282
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:37,080
And most of the time it did
nothing.

1283
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,360
Yeah.
Most of the time all it did was

1284
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:40,880
that I wrote down that they
weren't behaving.

1285
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,840
And then six weeks down the
line, I was like, I'm still

1286
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,480
putting sad faces on this report
because you're still not

1287
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,560
behaving because the report
doesn't fix the reason you're

1288
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,360
misbehaving.
You're not misbehaving because

1289
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,360
of affair of consequence.
You've already had the

1290
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,120
consequence as well.
So we need to be consistent and

1291
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,520
we need to make sure you're not
getting what you you've done

1292
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,160
this, you can't get that.
But that doesn't, that's not the

1293
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,440
end of the story.
So we talked about a million

1294
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,960
times about how having a
consequence that you follow for

1295
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,080
is really important because it
will catch some kids and it'll

1296
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,880
and you have to be consistent.
And it's not fair for them to

1297
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,720
not have consequence when
they're mis paving and someone

1298
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:16,760
else isn't.
It's not fair for that to be the

1299
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,960
same, even more so for the kids
who are behaving because it's

1300
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:21,600
not fair for it to look like,
well, what's the, what's the

1301
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,080
point?
However, it doesn't

1302
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,760
automatically mean that it's
going to fix behaviours.

1303
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,280
We have to get to the underlying
root of why behaviours are bad,

1304
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,720
and a report card won't fix
that.

1305
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:33,200
For most kids, yeah, sure.
For some kids it.

1306
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,160
Works, That's the thing, isn't
it?

1307
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:35,640
Like I can think of kids.
It's worth trying.

1308
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,480
I can think of kids where
putting their name on the board

1309
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,280
absolutely worked and they
behaved impeccably because they

1310
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,120
did not want their name on that
board worked great for them.

1311
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:44,480
I can think of some kids who had
a report card come to me every

1312
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,000
single day after every single
lesson and we had to reflect on

1313
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:48,600
their lesson and that meant the
world to them.

1314
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,000
And they and they absolutely
improved over time.

1315
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,400
So to me, I'm sort of, I think
of those wins.

1316
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,000
I'm like, if we took both of
those things away, is it just a

1317
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,080
net loss?
OK, but think about those kids,

1318
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,320
right?
So for sure the individual

1319
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,240
report card I think is more
acceptable because it's not a

1320
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:06,200
public shaming thing.
It's an individual report card.

1321
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,920
And actually it was quite nice
to have those checkpoints

1322
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,560
throughout the day where you can
talk to them, right?

1323
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,120
So I quite like that and I quite
like that side effect of it.

1324
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,760
And it worked for some kids and
it was great and I would never

1325
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,000
not try it.
But for kids it doesn't work for

1326
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,480
very quick.
I remember after two weeks one

1327
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,440
time I was like, cool, coming
off this, this is not helping.

1328
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,080
It is actually not helping.
If anything it's a hindrance

1329
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,160
because you're constantly
forgetting or you don't have it

1330
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,800
or you've left it in another
room on purpose and you just

1331
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,080
want to be a nuisance and get it
and come back.

1332
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,920
It's not helping.
So same with the board thing.

1333
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,520
If you think about any child
ever where writing their name on

1334
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,320
the board has worked in a in a
positive way and made them

1335
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,200
behave themselves, how many
times in a year do those kids

1336
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,160
get their name on the board?
Oh, still loads.

1337
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:46,960
Really.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, loads.

1338
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,200
Who?
I think because it's always

1339
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,600
realistic.
It's the same.

1340
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:50,800
It's the same truth, which is
what I'm.

1341
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,840
Saying but then it works
consistently because I've I've

1342
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,360
found that the more they're on
the board the more desensitising

1343
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,560
it stops working.
The ones I can think of who

1344
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:58,720
literally change their.
Behaviour.

1345
00:52:58,720 --> 00:52:59,800
Oh sorry, I was because the
opposite.

1346
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,880
No, because it's the first time
they've been on the board.

1347
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:03,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So my, my point is for the ones

1348
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,280
it for the ones the board thing
worked for, right.

1349
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,520
Only it works once and they
never do it again.

1350
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,520
So it becomes redundant when it
because the names, these that go

1351
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,600
on the board all the time are
the ones who don't give a crap

1352
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:15,600
and don't change their behaviour
anymore.

1353
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,360
So it just becomes a wallpaper
of the kids who are blast as

1354
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:19,920
naughty.
They see their name out there.

1355
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,320
They're like, well, I do this
every day anyway.

1356
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:21,920
What's?
The point, Sure.

1357
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,320
No, I agree.
I'm I I literally like when you

1358
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,000
said that I thought the other
way around, which is what I was

1359
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,040
saying.
Always on the Yeah, yeah, I

1360
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,040
think of those children, not
the.

1361
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,600
Ones the ones that the ones that
public shaming works with,

1362
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,800
you're going to get one or two
cases a year.

1363
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,840
It's where it actually is doing
the job.

1364
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,720
Yeah, yeah.
And realistically, there's more

1365
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:42,720
to take into account.
I'm playing devil's advocate

1366
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:44,440
more than anything, by the way,
because I actually do.

1367
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,360
I my overall opinion is I
actually don't think they're

1368
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:47,320
good.
Just touch feet there.

1369
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:48,720
Yeah, well, you're right.
You OK?

1370
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:49,800
Feel a bit.
Sick, I did.

1371
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,480
Just touch a little bit.
A little bit sick?

1372
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:52,840
Maybe it's time to be wrapping
this up here.

1373
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:54,880
Yeah, it is.
But I'm, I'm, I feel like I've

1374
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,560
got to get to the bottom of
this.

1375
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,760
I I've also had a parent come in
before, not a few times where

1376
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,040
their child has gone home.
They're so mortified that they

1377
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,480
were on the board this one time
that actually it really affected

1378
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,160
the rest of that week and that
that was not a net win, even

1379
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:10,880
though it did make them in the
moment stop doing the thing they

1380
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:11,960
were doing.
That was a bit silly because

1381
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,560
they absolutely did not want to
get their name on the board.

1382
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:14,600
It also ruined the rest of the
week.

1383
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:15,560
They didn't want to come to
school.

1384
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,160
So it's like that probably was
not a net win to have that kid's

1385
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:19,440
name on the board, even though
it stopped that way.

1386
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,280
If you looked at it contained in
the lesson, great win, thumbs

1387
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,960
up.
Really though, it wasn't because

1388
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,040
now that child was then
terrified of the idea of their

1389
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,320
name being put on the board.
So that definitely wasn't good.

1390
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,360
I think.
I think, you know, the research

1391
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,000
generally points towards not
doing that sort of thing,

1392
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:34,720
doesn't it?
The research says things like

1393
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,400
having blanket policies like
this, if, if someone has a

1394
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,720
rubbish morning at home that we
have, we're not Privy to at all

1395
00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:43,000
and that's affecting their
behaviour.

1396
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,880
And now they just get tarnished
as a naughty kid because

1397
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,160
actually they've just had a
horrendous morning.

1398
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,000
They've had an argument with
their mum, everyone's left the

1399
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,560
home crying.
They've had a horrible

1400
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,720
disruptive morning.
Probably shouldn't really be

1401
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:53,080
punishing that child.
We should probably just be

1402
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,240
talking to them and actually
helping them.

1403
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:56,400
Like you said, addressing the
root, the root problem.

1404
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,120
So there's loads and loads and
loads of stuff.

1405
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,000
Ultimately that backs up not
doing behaviour charts.

1406
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,080
I'm on this person's side, the
person I wrote in of I think we

1407
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,560
probably should try and have
those discussions.

1408
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,840
Maybe for them it's a case of
actually go away and do the

1409
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,200
research.
Then if you, if you feel like

1410
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,240
you've it's hard to counter, go
and do the research.

1411
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:13,800
Bring it in and see what the
research suggests instead and

1412
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,000
literally pitch that to your
school and say, look, I don't

1413
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,360
think they're good for this,
this, this reason.

1414
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,680
The research backs it up.
Could we maybe try this really

1415
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,400
positive approach?
So last thought is everyone else

1416
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,600
at that school a horrible,
callous teacher who's bad and

1417
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:25,880
just doesn't care about?
It no, of course not.

1418
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,320
Not at all, Not at all.
It just doesn't work like that.

1419
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,200
Because I think you can listen
to that conversation and think

1420
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,000
we're basically digging out
people who do it.

1421
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:33,120
I did it in my.
I did.

1422
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,280
It in my whole career.
For nearly all of Yeah, like for

1423
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:36,600
most of it, I was doing this
kind of thing.

1424
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,120
I just, it can sometimes feel
like the right thing to do.

1425
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,480
And it can superficially look
like it's making a difference.

1426
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,280
And for some children, it will
make a difference.

1427
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:45,880
And.
And you want to be seen to be

1428
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,560
doing something for behaviour,
especially if it's a tricky

1429
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,040
thing.
And I've seen lots of schools

1430
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,760
who've turned behaviour around
and have robust things where in

1431
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,800
every single classroom there's a
chart that looks like this and

1432
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,120
it tells you the consequences of
your actions and your positive

1433
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,760
part.
And it clearly works for some

1434
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,800
schools in that regard, right.
But just you're I'd have an

1435
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,920
opinion and my opinion is in
general that I don't quite like

1436
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,520
them.
I think they're a net loss, I

1437
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:07,360
would say.
Yeah, sure.

1438
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,240
Personally, that's fair enough.
Fair enough.

1439
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:10,800
But I don't hate you if you do
it.

1440
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,040
I appreciate you so much.
I think you're doing a great

1441
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,000
job.
And it's really hard.

1442
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,480
Behaviour's not easy, and the
more help you can get, the

1443
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:18,320
better craft.
Yeah.

1444
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,280
And like you said, every
school's different anyway, so

1445
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,720
you just need to have different
approaches.

1446
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,720
Definitely.
Let's finish there with the

1447
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:27,000
wreck, the wreck, the wreck, and
the wreck.

1448
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,560
If you enjoyed this wreck and
wreck episode, please do like

1449
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:34,760
follow share with a friend rate.
How are you still so bad at that

1450
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,000
little call to action?
How was that bad?

1451
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,000
Like follow share rate.
What?

1452
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,240
What else?
Sorry, I just watched you

1453
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:43,640
realise that those are the four
things.

1454
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:44,360
Ready.
No.

1455
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:44,760
No.
Ready.

1456
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,000
This is what I'd say.
Ready.

1457
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,640
Yeah.
Help us out, please.

1458
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,840
Forsake.
That's how you do it, Yeah.

1459
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:52,360
Put in the heart string.
Yeah, yeah.

1460
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,840
And also I'll do what you did
earlier, shall I?

1461
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,880
And take a pick out of you now,
make sure to book a maths demo

1462
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,200
for to help your arithmetic
fluency in your school.

1463
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,360
Because if you book a maths
demo, you can help your

1464
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:02,840
arithmetic fluency in your
school.

1465
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:03,960
That's what he did earlier,
wasn't it?

1466
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:05,640
I didn't take the mic when he
said that same thing twice.

1467
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,840
Double down, double down,
double, double, double, double

1468
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,080
down.
Reckon, reckon the wreck.

1469
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,760
Is worth saying though, do book
mass demo for your school if you

1470
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,280
want to help arithmetic fluency.
And if you don't, then clearly

1471
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,000
you don't care about your kids.
Wow, I hope you heard that

1472
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,520
lovely sound of Dylan smacking
his iPad into the mic.

1473
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:21,080
Bye.
See you.