Ep 186: Positive Masculinity, Secondary School Teaching & Battling Social Media [w/ Mr Hobbs]

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Hello everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Teach Stick

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Repeat.
My name is Dylan and my name's

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Hayden and the cameras are
slightly on a wonk to normal

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because we are in our new remote
setup because we have got a

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guest today.
And if you join the WhatsApp

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community, you can see a little
sneak preview of what that looks

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like.
I will share a picture, but

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we're going to because it will
have happened by the time this

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comes out.
We're going to talk to Mr Hobbs

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today.
Yes, someone you've probably

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seen on social media because his
Instagram's exploded in the last

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couple of weeks.
He's been on TikTok for quite a

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while.
We spoke to him about so many

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different things.
Firstly, a lot of you will be

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quite pleased to hear yes, he's
a secondary school teacher and

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yes, we finally talk about
secondary.

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OK, I hope you're happy now.
We talked about secondary

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school.
We did.

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We had a comparison.
I'm a little bit disappointed

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that I didn't say to him, So
which one's harder?

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I wish I said so what's harder?
Because all of our listeners

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need to know, is it harder being
a primary school teacher?

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So yes.
It's that thing like when you

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have a baby, right?
And both partners are like I'm

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the most tired.
Yeah, it's worse for me.

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I'm working more and I have to
do this exactly.

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We also talked about
masculinity.

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He does a lot of talks to young
boys about what it means to be a

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man and a role have have really
good role models.

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That was my favourite chat out
of the whole bit.

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That bit, to me, I feel like he
brought such interesting

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perspective to it and he
championed so much stuff on

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social media around that anyway
that I already found

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captivating.
So to actually be able to talk

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to the man, he'd be making his
videos, I just thought that's

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fascinating.
And again, it'd be interesting

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to hear what you guys think when
you get to that a bit.

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English teachers, we talk about
reading, we talk about social

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media as well.
Obviously we all are on social

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media, but he teaches children
who are way more likely to be on

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things like TikTok, Instagram.
But what I will say, and

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hopefully it comes across when
you listen to our chat with him,

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is that he is just the nicest
man who's trying to do the most

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for our next generation.
And I couldn't be more hopeful

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and, yeah, hopeful for him and,
and, and what he's doing.

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So, yeah, without further ado,
let's dive into the chat.

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Let us know what you think.
First of all, George, first of

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all, nice to meet you.
Thank you for your time.

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We appreciate it massively.
Secondly, and I say second

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because it's a it's linked to my
question.

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You're secondary school and
we've had so many people over

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the years say to us, I want a
bit more on secondary school.

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I want to learn about what goes
on in that blah, blah, blah.

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You're just primary and for a
long time haven't we've hated.

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We basically just thought we'll
stick there of that.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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But the expert we.
Don't really know.

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Feeling is a little bit neutral
to be honest.

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Right.
There's a bit of a chasm

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sometimes between primary and
secretary.

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So the first thing I just wanted
to throw over to you was just

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what's a day in your life like
or a week in your life as a as a

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secondary school teacher?
Because primary, we teach

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everything.
We're basically with our class

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all the time.
Secondary seems very, very

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different.
Do you know what's really

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interesting is when you say that
I just think of when those year

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sevens come up.
I'm obviously used to our

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context, but how crazy must it
be for those year sixes who've

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just been, you know, probably
sitting on the back benches,

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probably helping out with all
the all the stuff, all the

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responsibility.
And they walk into this massive

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building and they're suddenly
expected to have their own books

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all the time in their bags
moving between places.

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So it is a massive jump up, I
imagine for me.

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I love the variety that comes
with that secondary school.

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Like every day, every lesson,
you're just getting a new group

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of kids.
Often like 32 new students are

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through your door.
And for me, like one of my

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favourite parts is being on the
door when they arrive.

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Like for me, I know there's a
big teacher thing.

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Wait, make sure that you're
offering a smile, saying hello.

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But that is my favourite part
because you're just like, in

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what other job would you have
the opportunity to see that many

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people?
And usually as well, I don't

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know if you guys found this, but
kids are usually quite happy to

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see you.
Yeah, Yeah, I think that's quite

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nice.
I wonder whether that, I'm not

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sure.
When I worked outside of school,

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people were as as happy to see
me as as they are now.

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So that's probably why I'll
stick around in the profession.

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But how much detail do you want
to go into?

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Like do you want to know from
the in?

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Terms of when you go into the
building, obviously you're,

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you're, you're an English
teacher, right?

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So the biggest thing from our
point of view is, and we're,

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we're math centric, but English
was a huge part of our career.

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And you know, so is history and
geography and English kind of

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fed its way into absolutely
everything.

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And when it comes to secondary
school, obviously kids are a bit

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further along.
And it feels like the further

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along kids got in primary
school, the wider the gaps seem

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to get because it was more
chance for children to become

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better at a subject and more
able.

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And unfortunately for some
children, a longer chance for

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them to fall behind and still
not be catching up.

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So I'm just wondering, from your
point of view, specifically as

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an English teacher, but also
just as a teacher of children

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who are a bit older, how do you
find that, that chasm that you

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might, you might see in your
classes?

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How much more often do you set
in classes?

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Or is it mixed ability?
What what?

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What does it look like?
Yeah, I think in English we're

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particularly lucky because we've
got that old idea and maths has

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it too, which is that you do
need this for GTSE.

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So when people come in you've
kind of, you've got that thing

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to fall back on.
Now I've never taught any other

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subjects, but I can imagine that
it is more difficult for them to

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hold the interest of a student,
which for me, I always go down

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the route of what do you want to
be when you grow up?

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And then from there, and we'll
say, well, look, this is how I

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can help you.
And I'm always bribing them to

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come with me.
And then in regards to like the

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way I try and get kids engaged
in English specifically, it's

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like always have to go for
interest first.

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So like right now I'm thinking
at year 11, my students will

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just be studying English
language right now, which is so

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dense, can be so boring at times
because you're analysing

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language constantly, constantly.
And they don't mix them at the

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moment through literature and
language.

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So when I'm with them, I'm
always like, right, we need to

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hook into the subject that we're
talking about.

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So say we're doing cycling, I'm
going to make them watch a few

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Tour de France videos.
I'm going to show them some some

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photos from when I was on
holiday in France over the

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summer doing some cycling myself
to try and make sure they come

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with me.
Because I think, and I don't

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think this is exclusive just to
secondary school, but if you've

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lost their interest, it is so
difficult that we could talk

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strategies all day long.
But I have tried to

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differentiate till the cows come
home with a student who just

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doesn't want to know.
And I'm, they're like, look, I'm

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not sure there's much I can do
at this point to get you

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interested in complex or simple
sentences, but I imagine that's

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the same for you guys at
primary.

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I mean, big time, yeah.
It's just like Dylan said, the

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gap, the gap just gets bigger.
And like, we, we, we're funny

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enough, we're having a
conversation not long ago about

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really someone, someone asks us
a question of like, what do you

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do when that gap widens so much
as particularly if you are in

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secondary and you're teaching a
subject, I don't know, maybe

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it's not even English.
Maybe you're teaching a

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different subject.
What I I, I can put my hand on

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my heart and say I don't really
know the answer there.

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It gets to a point where I'm
like, I honestly don't know.

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Like what do you actually do in
that situation?

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Because you obviously don't just
go Oh well, and and just ignore

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their existence for the rest of
the year.

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You know what I mean?
You obviously don't do that.

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So what do you do?
And do you find it effective or

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what?
So like in my school currently

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we are we set.
So when they come in they are

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they almost immediately put in
sets.

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Like, I on a personal level do
have a bit of a problem with

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that.
Just my perspective is that to

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immediately set someone, look, I
was someone who loved English at

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school, but I was set too.
And there was always something

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about that that was like, it's
really sad to me that English is

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my favourite subject.
But there are kids in there who

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love science more who are in set
1.

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And I used to think like, oh,
that's, that's so demoralising.

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And I look at my, some of my
students now who are, you know,

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maybe Middlesex, maybe maybe
even some people who need a

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little bit more support.
And I just think like, I think

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actually we need to give them an
opportunity to work with

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students who can lift them up.
But then there's the other side

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of that as well, which is that I
think the more able students do

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have that, that particularly I
find sometimes parents as well,

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want their students to be
constantly aiming for those a

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stars.
But that comes from culture in

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schools, isn't it?
Which is that you get these

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ideas that we need to be going
for a stars and as and it's all

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about it's all results driven.
But in regards to how you how

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you bridge that gap, Like you
say, I'm a big poet myself and I

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write a lot of poetry.
And in one poem I talk about

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this idea, which is that I would
love to sit here and assure you

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that I am a ASDADHD specialist
in that regard.

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Like I know all the
neurodevelopment pathways off by

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heart and I'm there to offer the
support as am I.

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Like I want to say that and I
want to be that person, but when

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you look across a class of 32,
the variety is so large that you

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do just have to try and pitch it
at the right level.

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You need to make sure there's
appropriate challenge for those

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kids at the top.
And then even more difficult is

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you need to make sure that those
at the bottom aren't just, like

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you say, just being left behind.
Because it breaks my heart to

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see students who I know that if
I could support them more would

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be able to reach those levels.
But like, there's 32 kids

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sometimes.
I've got one class at the moment

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who've got 33 children.
So one of them sits kind of at

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my desk, you know, on a chair.
And I'm like, this is our

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reality.
So, so that I, I'm sorry if you

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put me on here to give you the
exact answer.

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No, no, no.
No, it's really, really

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interesting because what you've,
what you've mentioned is quite a

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few things that kind of almost
shatter my illusion of secondary

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sometimes.
And it's, and I'll mention both

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here because firstly, it's this
idea of setting.

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I, I love your outlook in terms
of why you think setting maybe

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isn't automatically the best
thing to do, because even from

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my point of view in primary, the
automatic thing is to not set

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yet.
And in my head in secondary,

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that's when you start setting.
And I've seen from my point of

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view, there's been a lot of
opportunities where I thought

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that actually in this situation,
setting may well have helped for

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a number of reasons.
And we talked about that before,

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but it's seen as you can't
possibly do that.

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And in my head, secondary is,
well, obviously you set because

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you get older and the gap widens
and it makes more sense to do

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that.
But here in your perspective of

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actually why it might not be the
best thing is, is really

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interesting to me.
And the other thing that you've

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kind of shattered in terms of
the secondary school illusion

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for me is the number of children
you in a class.

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I just kind of want to focus on
that for a second because again,

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if I think of secondary, I think
of, you know, 20 in a class,

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maybe 16 to 2024, it gets a bit
smaller, a bit more condensed,

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but it's, it seems to me from
what you're saying that just

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isn't your reality.
It's honestly, it's crazy to

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think the amount of human beings
that can be in front of you at

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one time.
And do you know, do you ever get

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that before where you stood in
front of a class and you

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suddenly realised there's,
there's 32 eyes, sets of eyes on

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you?
Like, like, do you just, I just

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think like don't, don't like
collapse or anything.

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But no, it's really, it's, it's
incredibly difficult.

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And then what, what that leaks
into as well is if you've got 32

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students, particularly English,
you're then marking 32 books

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when the assessments come
around.

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And so there's that on top of
it.

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And then let's say
hypothetically, you do have a

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behaviour issue and you have to
call home.

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You've then got maybe a few more
of those to do.

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And what ends up happening, as
every teacher very well knows,

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is the workload becomes high and
then you're sitting at home,

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you're thinking right, you need
to pitch this at the right level

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for them.
So when you're doing your

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planning, you've got so many
students to to do, you always

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get overwhelmed at times.
And that's where you do end up

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going.
As all teachers know, you're

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never going to plan the perfect
lesson.

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So you have to kind of, as I
say, like pitch for the middle.

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But it's, it's a skill learning
to how to challenge students.

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And one of the things that I'd
love, you know, to talk about a

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little bit is, is this idea of
we need to be trained to do

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00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,600
specific things like if we're
going to be challenging

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00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,920
students, how do you challenge
really, really well?

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00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,760
How do you lift the students off
the bottom really, really well?

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00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,800
Not just like questioning, not
just really vague stuff, but how

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do you do that?
And then if we do get that

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opportunity to be trained, can
we have some time for it too?

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Time.
Are you joking?

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Time in this profession.
Absolutely not.

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I know how I know.
And I don't say that

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00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,400
specifically.
I just say that generally for

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our whole profession, right?
You've hit the nail on the head.

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It's it's, you know, we're
yearning for training, but when

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it's implemented poorly, what is
the point?

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You know, we need to learn how
to do these things.

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00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,920
Well, I was going to say like
how well trained do you think

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people are for your particular
subjects in secondary school

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straight out of uni?
Like when you finish your

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00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:46,960
qualification, you've got your
QTS day one of the job, how well

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00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,040
trained do you actually think
you are?

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Then the.
Crazy part, the crazy thing is

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my, my honest reality is that I
was a student who loved English

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because I loved the creative
writing and I loved like plays,

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I loved stories and that was my
passion.

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And you go to university and you
do all this really high brow

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00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,040
exciting stuff.
Went to Cardiff Uni where they

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00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,480
had this amazing like gothic
literature unit where I loved my

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lecture, which was amazing.
And then I came out and you get

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00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,400
down to the nitty gritty of what
you teach students in secondary

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00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,520
school, and I'm just on the bus
on my PGCE asking my mate what a

285
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,120
juxtaposition is, you know?
Yeah.

286
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,120
And I'm saying they're going,
that's going to teach this.

287
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,400
And we've all done it before,
but we've all we've all Googled

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00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,360
something just before.
We've talked, Hey, just got a

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00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:29,600
noun.
He doesn't know anything, he

290
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:30,520
says.
What's a noun?

291
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,600
It doesn't.
Yeah, not that bad.

292
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It's crazy, isn't it?
And then on the PGCE, you're

293
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,320
learning pedagogy, so you're
learning all this more high BRAF

294
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,240
stuff.
And they expect you to be, and

295
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,320
rightly so, by the way, they
expect you to be a subject

296
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,400
specialist.
But what you're learning at G,

297
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,200
sorry, university English is
certainly not what you're

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00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,280
teaching at school level
English.

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00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,760
So for me, I came out feeling
really unprepared.

300
00:12:55,560 --> 00:13:00,440
And The thing is now is I really
grinded, like I really grinded

301
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,840
to be, I wanted to be like, my
catch phrase that I always come

302
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,560
back to is I wanted to be an
outstanding English teacher, not

303
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:07,880
just an English teacher.
I always wanted to be

304
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,960
outstanding.
And I applied initially for

305
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,480
Teach First when I first did
that, and I was just really

306
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:14,760
excited by what they were
offering.

307
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,520
And I was like, Oh yeah, that's
where I want to go.

308
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:19,200
I didn't end up doing that
pathway, but I still hold that

309
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,280
with me.
And so when I was doing my PGCEI

310
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,280
was working hours way longer
than would be expected of you.

311
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,000
And even now, if there's people
in my school on the PGCEI, would

312
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,080
never in good conscience
recommend they did what I did,

313
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,000
but stay in breath if they
don't.

314
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,840
It's a bit like, do you want to
go into the classroom and feel

315
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:42,200
prepared or do you want to have
a social life and they both

316
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,920
don't feel great if you're not.
So funny we are like, you know

317
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:48,520
what you're saying rings true to
us.

318
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,000
I know Dylan's thinking the
exact same thing, right?

319
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,800
Because we've been champions for
years on this podcast of

320
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,000
teaching people their rights and
their contracts and what they

321
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,080
should be able to do and what
they should be able to say no to

322
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,960
and when they should say no.
But equally, anytime we're ever

323
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,800
asked about our NQ to our
training years, we always go, we

324
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,640
always go revert back to saying,
you know what, though we dived

325
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,560
into it.
We're like, I poured my life and

326
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:13,120
soul into that year.
And I still say to people, if

327
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,960
you are able to do that and you
want to do that, you should.

328
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,760
Even though on the same hand,
the same breath, I'm saying to

329
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,720
other people, whoa, you've been
taken advantage of here.

330
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,040
Like, you know, your workloads
too high.

331
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,920
So I think you can kind of have
both because you do just learn

332
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,360
so much, you absorb so much in
that year.

333
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,040
Well, I, I just think it's
really interesting because for

334
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,680
me, I always think that you
choose when the difficulty comes

335
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,200
in lots of ways.
That's my kind of mantra for

336
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,360
life.
I always try to choose the

337
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,080
difficult first, so I get the
easy later.

338
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,880
But like you say, you need to be
really careful and really

339
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,040
understand your priorities
because before long I, I, I love

340
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,800
this saying the enemy of the
best is the good.

341
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,920
So there's loads of good things
in your life that you can give

342
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,480
loads and loads of time to.
But if you're not careful,

343
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,960
you're going to find out that
you neglected your family or

344
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:58,480
your partner or your passion in
life outside of school for Year

345
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,720
7 English, which by the way,
like maybe that is someone's

346
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,600
best.
But but I do just find myself

347
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,000
going, I need to prioritise
constantly and sometimes my

348
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,880
priorities shift as I'm sure
everyone's do.

349
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,720
But if you're not really
careful, and I think one thing

350
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,200
that you guys are doing, when I
first saw you guys, it was

351
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,480
amazing because you were talking
about this idea of like, be

352
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,040
careful that you're not being
taken advantage of.

353
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,000
It just makes you think, oh, OK.
Like, because this idea of

354
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,880
teaching is a vocation you're
almost lulled into.

355
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:27,880
I'm doing God's work, so this is
the best.

356
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:29,960
Yeah.
Finding that fine line.

357
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,040
Isn't it, it's, it's putting
yourself what, what the, the

358
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,080
danger with that is?
Because I've seen this a lot.

359
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,560
I've seen you talk about it as
well.

360
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,840
And I never want to put people
down when they're talking about

361
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,640
teaching as this unbelievable
job because I truly think it is.

362
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,920
I think it's magical.
I think it's, it's one of the

363
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,320
best jobs a human can have in
terms of service and helping

364
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,280
other people and becoming a
better person yourself through

365
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,000
helping others.
But what I see people fall into

366
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,840
to a lot, and it's the only
thing I'm really, really wary

367
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,920
of, and I want people to be
aware of this themselves, is

368
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,240
they fall into that trap of
thinking because they're in a

369
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,320
service role and they want to
help other people, that they're

370
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,400
not worthy of their own help
sometimes.

371
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,680
And what I would say to people
all the time in teaching is if

372
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,720
you were someone else, what
would you say to them?

373
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,800
And a lot of the time a teacher
would say, chill out, relax,

374
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,560
it's OK, your best is good
enough and you're pushing

375
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,280
yourself and eventually it'll be
worse for you.

376
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,560
And that's all.
That's kind of our message.

377
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:25,720
And hopefully that does come
across.

378
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,960
And from what you're saying, do
you ever feel like you got to

379
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,200
that situation where actually
you did have to just stop

380
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,800
yourself and go?
I've got to make a choice here.

381
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,000
On paper, maybe as a teacher,
it'll be the best thing for me

382
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,040
to do this and this and this.
But as a human being and someone

383
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,280
who respects myself and wants to
look after myself, I've got to

384
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,280
say no and have a line.
I think what that for me comes

385
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:52,280
down to is where I see my value
as a teacher and where I think

386
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:57,120
my USB comes is that I think
that it's really important to

387
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,200
just do.
How do I put this?

388
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,360
I want to put this in the right
way.

389
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:03,920
I don't want my students to
think I'm perfect.

390
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:05,680
I don't want my students to
think that I've got it all

391
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:06,920
figured out.
I don't want my students to

392
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,960
think that I don't feel
stressed, don't feel anxious.

393
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,079
So I'm constantly letting them
know and trying to show them

394
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,599
that in order for me to pour out
of my cup, I've got to have

395
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:18,839
something in my cup.
So I talk to them about the fact

396
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:20,280
that I do poetry outside of
school.

397
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,319
I talk to them about how I do
rugby outside of school.

398
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,200
I'm trying to learn.
I live in Cardiff and my partner

399
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,599
is a Welsh speaker, so I'm
trying to learn Welsh outside of

400
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,040
school.
I'm constantly trying to

401
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,320
challenge myself in these ways
and I think through that.

402
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,800
I'm modelling that I don't make
teaching my life and and

403
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,080
sometimes when I do let that
happen, it gets on top of me.

404
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,720
Like I recently did a post on
social media where I said I

405
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,400
thought about quitting teaching
four or five times today.

406
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,400
I think it's so important that
people don't look at me as their

407
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,960
teacher and think, God, that
guy, isn't that guy perfect?

408
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:53,800
Just because I'm by the way, I
like around school.

409
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:59,360
I like to think I'm very smiley
lots of the time behind the

410
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:01,040
smile.
I might be stressed or anxious,

411
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,480
but I'll tell them that, like I
welcome them with a smile

412
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:04,680
because almost the smile's for
them.

413
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,320
Because as teachers, we know
that like I love the the theory

414
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,080
that kids are a mirror.
If you smile at them, not smile

415
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,320
back at you.
If you frown at them, they

416
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:13,600
weren't.
And I'm always like, well, if in

417
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,440
that case, I can make their day
by smiling at them.

418
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,640
But if they come into my room,
sometimes kids have said to me

419
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,400
in the past, you know, Sir,
you're always happy.

420
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,320
And I'm like, no, no, no, no,
no.

421
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,640
And I'm not like saying that in
an unhinged way, but I'm telling

422
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,240
them, Oh no, no, like I feel
anxious today, like for sure.

423
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,240
So don't worry if you don't.
So when you talk about that,

424
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,560
that workload and and it getting
too much for me, I think I've

425
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,400
kind of got it.
I like to think anyway from for

426
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,240
myself, I know when and where to
give back, but I just think

427
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,480
where it does come from
problematic is where we're

428
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,200
almost championing this idea of
if you're not, you guys talk

429
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,120
about this, if you're not taking
stuff home, doing it until the

430
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:53,160
early hours, you're not giving
it up.

431
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,280
And I'm sat there like those
people look so, so good for

432
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,840
about two weeks and then they
call in on the.

433
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,680
Phone teacher martyrs.
We call them teacher martyrdom.

434
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,640
Yeah, exactly that.
The fact that you champion

435
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,760
self-care and the fact that you
champion you're not there to be

436
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,480
perfect and you're showing your
own flaws.

437
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,200
And actually, you know what?
I feel like this today, kids.

438
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:19,760
So actually I do this outside of
school.

439
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,360
This is cool that do you do you
feel that all wraps around with

440
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,200
all the kind of work you do
around masculinity as well?

441
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,760
Because I personally, I found
myself roped into your content.

442
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,200
I think even some of the like
snippets of speeches and

443
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,240
presentations and stuff you've
done on your Instagram.

444
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,080
It's inspiring, really.
Genuinely really inspiring and I

445
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,160
can see the passion behind that.
Like I can tell that's something

446
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,880
like you really, really, really
care about.

447
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,320
Can you dive into that a little
bit more?

448
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,120
I'd like to hear your thoughts
generally on on those talks,

449
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:48,840
what you what you talk about
with with masculine?

450
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,720
Yeah, 100%.
But I mean, this is this is

451
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,680
something that I, I am a teacher
and I think I would be a teacher

452
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,280
my whole life.
I think if anything was to drag

453
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,720
me into a different space,
hopefully alongside teaching, it

454
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,000
would be this, because it's just
something as a man myself and as

455
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,400
someone who.
Like at school would have been

456
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,200
kind of considered like a
naughty kid, for example.

457
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,640
Like I, I just see the narrative
that's built around boys at the

458
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,120
moment.
And I just want to make sure

459
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:18,520
that the narrative is accurate.
The narrative is healthy, the

460
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,280
narrative is helpful, not just
kind of jumping on a bandwagon.

461
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,920
And I'm not saying that everyone
is doing that, but the back

462
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,560
story behind it is that as I'm
sure everyone did, we watched

463
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,560
adolescence, the show, and I
watched it all in one after

464
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,360
another.
And I kind of sat there

465
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,040
genuinely stunned for about 30
minutes thinking.

466
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,240
And then I kind of went online
and over the next couple of

467
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,200
weeks, I saw this massive cry.
Put that in school, show that to

468
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,360
kids.
They're going to, they need to

469
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:48,360
see this.
And I sat there going, I sat

470
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:51,120
there in dumb struck silence for
half an hour trying to think of

471
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,680
what to do with that.
What on earth would that do for

472
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,400
children?
Like what would it do for the

473
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,000
girls about what would they
think?

474
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,080
They're looking at their they're
going, what's the message behind

475
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,520
that?
Should I be scared of the people

476
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,360
that sat next to me?
The boys are suddenly trying to

477
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,120
figure out how are they trying
to tell me that I'm a bad kid?

478
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,320
Am I that?
But just pending, you know,

479
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,040
there might be some of those
really emotionally mature kids

480
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,440
who might be able to understand
that that was more of a

481
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,080
microcosm of things that do
happen.

482
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,520
And then as long as they do the
right things, they won't end up

483
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,840
like that.
And I just sat there and I got

484
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,160
really frustrated and I thought,
this is so classic.

485
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,640
We'll run into this because it's
on social media and everyone's

486
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:28,680
talking about it and everyone
will.

487
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,360
And I'll be like, Oh yeah, yeah,
show that to kids.

488
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,920
And I was like, if that gets you
out to kids, I'm going on

489
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:38,000
strike, genuinely.
But what I hate and my, my rugby

490
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,240
coach said this to me when I was
a kid.

491
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,400
I went up to him and I said,
this drove rubbish.

492
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,320
And he said to me, so what's the
problem?

493
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,480
What's the solution?
And I said, I don't know.

494
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,920
He said, well, never come to me
ever again with the problem with

495
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,440
that solution.
And I never forgotten it.

496
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,600
He was a northerner.
I won't be an accent, but Oh my

497
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,400
God, it's struck me.
I just thought, well, it was

498
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,400
brilliant.
And I, I, it's so formative.

499
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,840
And I sat there and I thought,
Oh my goodness, I think this has

500
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,400
to be done by, by, by someone.
And I was like, well, they're

501
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,360
me.
Maybe I'm thinking about it.

502
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,720
Why not?
And, and the way I keep thinking

503
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,800
about it is one day someone
might come knocking in South

504
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,120
Wales, where I live, and they
might say so, So what are you

505
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,720
doing about it?
And, and I just think, well, we

506
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,600
can't be that classic where
everyone looks to each other and

507
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,160
goes, well, I thought you were
doing something.

508
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,360
Yeah, you so like, and, and it,
and it and it.

509
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:24,960
And I thought about that for
ages.

510
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,360
And I thought about where did I
find my value?

511
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,760
Because I was one of those kids
like I got, I got fixed term

512
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,760
excluded from school for just
being silly and stupid.

513
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,360
And luckily for me, I thought
about how I've got so many

514
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:37,760
uncles.
I come from a huge family, loads

515
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,840
of uncles.
I got a brilliant family unit

516
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,440
around me.
I had wonderful coaches.

517
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,000
And I just thought even with
that, I still kind of fell into

518
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,080
those habits at times of just
being stupid and not making the

519
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,760
right decisions.
But I did lots of digging and I

520
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,120
thought fundamentally what saved
me from going off, going off was

521
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:59,480
role modelling and was people
going watch this, you know, do

522
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,200
as I do watch me.
And and I have my dad who's

523
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,600
like, like ultimate, you know, I
wouldn't go, you know, I'm not

524
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,240
going to embarrass him by
calling him my hero.

525
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,680
But you know, you look up at
your dad and you're like, yeah,

526
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,920
but I can just be like you, like
you're such a good guy.

527
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,120
And I then read.
So I'm going to go on for a

528
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:16,320
little bit here because it's so
interesting.

529
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,200
I read, I read the, there's a,
there's an amazing article

530
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,400
called The Lost Boys State of
the Nation, which was done by in

531
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,560
England and Wales about our boys
across our two countries.

532
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,160
And it was staggering.
Some of the things that they

533
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,600
found, you know, boys are in
serious trouble.

534
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,800
They are twice as likely to be
excluded from school.

535
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,160
If they are excluded from
school, the statistics around

536
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:43,040
them going on to be actual
offenders and end up in prison

537
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,560
is huge, 96% of the prison
population of boys.

538
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,080
It's so staggering.
And I was sat there and I

539
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,560
thought, again, this doesn't
actually provide any solutions.

540
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,680
It's just a state of the
nation's clip.

541
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,240
So from that I decided to start
this thing, front foot pathways,

542
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,840
which is something, and the
tagline of this is using the

543
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,920
values of sport to nurture young
men who are resilient,

544
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,520
responsible and strong in
character.

545
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,520
And those three things are taken
from the State of the Nation

546
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,560
report.
And it essentially focuses on

547
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,600
providing boys with the
opportunities to learn about

548
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,920
positive values.
It allows them to understand

549
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,440
some of the concepts that we're
looking for in those values.

550
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,200
For example, one that I love to
talk about with kids is

551
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,960
integrity.
I feel like we sometimes think,

552
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,920
well, let's just call it honesty
and be done with it.

553
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,280
No, no, let's empower them.
Let's upskill them.

554
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,080
Don't patronise people to not
think they can understand

555
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,080
integrity.
Let's allow them to understand

556
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,280
that that's the one thing that
they cannot give away.

557
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,880
That fact I when someone said to
me, I blew my mind, everything

558
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,720
can be taken for you in life,
but your integrity is yours and

559
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,280
yours alone to give away.
And it goes through these talks.

560
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,000
I go and I do them in school, I
do them at local rugby clubs.

561
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,680
But what I find really powerful
about the talks is that they are

562
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,120
alongside sport.
This is what I was going to hook

563
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,320
on here is it seems to be sports
centred almost.

564
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,800
It almost would capture a lot of
children's interest and boys

565
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,160
interest.
Well, I'm playing rugby, I'm

566
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,840
playing sport.
But actually not, not stealthily

567
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,600
whatsoever because I think
you're very clear about what

568
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,160
you're saying.
But it's a way, I think, to get

569
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,880
to more children and people and
boys in particular than maybe

570
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,120
you would have otherwise.
Yeah, 100%.

571
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:29,000
And, and, and even more than
that, and this is really the

572
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,200
point, is that boys get told
constantly that you're naughty,

573
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,640
you're this, you're that.
They get labelled and I sit

574
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,360
there and I'm like, how have we
just told and potentially label

575
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:43,880
the child, potentially mark that
child for life as lazy when they

576
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,840
have not missed a Tuesday,
Thursday, Saturday rugby session

577
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,280
or football session or whatever
sport it might be in their whole

578
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,200
life.
And it's raining and it's cold

579
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,880
and they're there every single
time.

580
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,920
And I'm there like what we need
to do this is sorry, I'm not

581
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,880
preaching like this is all stuff
that I think hopefully is

582
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,320
universally accepted.
But the idea that we want to

583
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,720
empower our our boys to see the
good in themselves and then to

584
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,680
gas them up and say, we want to
see more of that.

585
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,200
Like it's not a case of just
saying, don't be this, don't be

586
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,240
this, don't be this, because
they're kind of left confused

587
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,320
and going, well, what should I
be?

588
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,760
But going into their sport and
watching boys train and I go,

589
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,640
wow, God, when you, when you
told me that, you know, you

590
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,800
hadn't hit that line and
therefore, you know, you've not

591
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,080
done it, that was integrity.
Well done.

592
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,040
You've got those integrity.
You know, when you, when you

593
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,200
jump back after that shot, God,
you got creamed.

594
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,320
You jumped straight back up.
That was resilience and allowing

595
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:35,920
them to be like, Oh no, I am
resilient.

596
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,640
I have got integrity.
And where Front foot pathways

597
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,920
works is it's that translation
from, don't you tell me you've

598
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,280
not got integrity or resilience
or discipline and then not show

599
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,360
it in life.
And it's about that middle bit

600
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,360
of translating it over.
And I think that if we can get

601
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:57,520
that right, we could make our
boys feel empowered to be really

602
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,920
positive influences.
And it changes that narrative.

603
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:03,200
It's no longer don't be toxic.
It's now, God, I want to be

604
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,560
positive.
And I think that's an important

605
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,800
point.
I want to push you a bit on how

606
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:13,400
you think that will maybe make
an impact more widely on these

607
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,160
statistics.
You said that to me a

608
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,520
horrifying, you know, 96% of the
prison population being male,

609
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,440
the, the amount of boys being
excluded, the horrendous

610
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:23,960
attitudes we see in your
adolescence.

611
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,600
Yet to microcosm, it's, it's
fiction, but it is based on what

612
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,360
happens in real life.
What do you see as the bridge

613
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:33,360
between the the amazing work
you're doing and then eventually

614
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,840
hopefully seeing an impact on
the wider, more serious numbers?

615
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,760
I think like there's a couple of
things there.

616
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,640
The first one being the, the
exclusions link to

617
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,800
incarcerations, you know, that's
a direct link.

618
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,600
So we can do something about
that because they're with us at

619
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,520
that time.
So can we work with them on the

620
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,360
ground?
And of course it's correlation,

621
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:55,960
not cause, but it's, it's a,
it's a statistic we can, we can

622
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,280
look at there.
So working with our boys from

623
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,080
the the second we get them at
primary even maybe, but second

624
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,880
years, they come in year 7 and
not identifying specific kids

625
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,360
and making them go to a workshop
or something, but just talking

626
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,680
the way we speak to them, the
the assemblies we put in front

627
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,360
of them, the role models we're
choosing to prioritise in our

628
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:15,840
schools, I think is really
important.

629
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,080
And then the other thing with
with it is I think our

630
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,440
relationship with role models is
really important because for me,

631
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,280
I was really lucky.
Like my dad was a teacher.

632
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,960
He wasn't a really rich guy.
He wasn't someone who I looked

633
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,320
up to because of his status.
I looked up to him because he

634
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,400
was really kind.
I looked up to him because he

635
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,560
used to tell me he loved me more
than anyone, anything.

636
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:42,320
And I think that sometimes we
are in this culture of status.

637
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,960
We're in this culture of
financial success being what

638
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,680
we're chasing, whereas if we can
start to make sure that these

639
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,680
kids can see that they can go
up, grow up to be really

640
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,360
positive men, they can grow up
to be really great role models

641
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,600
themselves because they are
strong in character.

642
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,400
Then all of a sudden we don't
have the this, I mean, TikTok

643
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,080
culture kills me.
Louis Theroux's coming out with

644
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,240
a Netflix thing about the
manosphere and we've got some of

645
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,440
these role models.
I saw something awful the other

646
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,440
day, which was a group of 30
something year old men sitting

647
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,920
around talking about
essentially, what do they call

648
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,320
it when they when they wind
someone up on the street rage

649
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,760
baiting.
And I sit there and I'm like,

650
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,520
what if we want people to think
that they can be something by

651
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,520
doing that, what's that going to
do to our society?

652
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,160
Or if we can start pointing out
normal and say, look, no, we

653
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,320
want people to be humble.
We want people to to have a lot

654
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,640
of discipline.
We want people to be able to

655
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,680
work really hard.
And if you can actually convince

656
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,280
them that it's true, then
they'll want to grow up and be

657
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:52,120
positive influences in order to
achieve that that aspiration or

658
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,640
that to be like their role
models.

659
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,400
Thinking back to that year six
class that I mentioned earlier,

660
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,320
social media was already, for
me, a huge, glaring, glaring

661
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,240
problem.
And that's just from year 6.

662
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,520
So as a secondary school
teacher, how have you found that

663
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,800
social media has impacted the
kids, impacted the way they act,

664
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,400
what they're getting from it?
Is it a massive issue?

665
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,760
Yeah, Well, certainly in my
school context, like I won't go

666
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,320
into too much detail on it, but
we have had to bring in a phone

667
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,600
ban, which I know loads of
schools around the country have

668
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,000
had to do.
But it's just because it's, it's

669
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,280
incessant, it's relentless and
it doesn't switch off.

670
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,760
And so we know how hard it is to
sometimes being on social media

671
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,680
ourselves to not be checking
your phone constantly.

672
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,120
But yeah, some of these, some of
these students would be under

673
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,920
the table constantly whilst
you're trying to teach them.

674
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,080
And you then get into that
battle in the classroom of being

675
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,360
like, right, you need to come
off your phone now.

676
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,720
And you just what gets added to
the to the classroom environment

677
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:50,960
anyway.
But then outside of the

678
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,720
classroom as well.
I mean, some of the problems

679
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,800
that social media brings in
Cardiff alone right now, we just

680
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,440
had this idea, somebody,
somebody posted this idea that

681
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,040
half the schools in Cardiff,
we're going to have a fight with

682
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,800
the other schools.
We had something here, I'm not

683
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,120
joking, in our hometown, exactly
the same.

684
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,880
It split the schools, secondary
schools in half, and they said

685
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,360
we're having a war.
It's like a TikTok thing.

686
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,080
We had that too, yeah.
Like last week?

687
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,440
Yeah.
And you just sit there and you

688
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,720
just think that must that would
have been done by someone sat in

689
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,720
a dark room just having a laugh.
But then someone shares it and

690
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,840
the next thing you know some,
and this is what frustrates me,

691
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,400
is people can do these things
with no accountability.

692
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,120
It can come from someone who has
absolutely no right to have a

693
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,360
voice like that to cause such a
fuss.

694
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,320
But all of a sudden it's all
over and our schools are having

695
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,600
to deal with it.
And I just think actually we do

696
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,000
just need to be careful with who
we platform on social media.

697
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,840
Obviously, I know we've touched
on it before, but at the same

698
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,520
time, this is the world that we
live in and we do need to make

699
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,200
sure that we're not just saying
to people, no, you can't use it

700
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,320
because you look at people like
Simon Squibb for example.

701
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:57,880
Think what you want about Simon
Squibb.

702
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,680
What he has done with his social
media has been platforming loads

703
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,280
of small businesses, which is
amazing.

704
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,840
You know what we have both, you
know, all three of us have been

705
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,280
able to do through social media
is reach a, a wider audience and

706
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,760
share what happens in the
teaching profession.

707
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,120
And actually, as you see in lots
of comments, people are really

708
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,360
grateful to see what happens
inside the teaching profession.

709
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,440
It helps people to connect and
it helps people to go, oh, well,

710
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,920
that happens to me too.
Or, Oh my God, I feel like that.

711
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,680
Thank God I'm not the only one.
So social media is a huge power

712
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,480
for good if used correctly.
And I, I think it probably comes

713
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,560
down to education as, as
everything does, doesn't.

714
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,160
It How have you found since the
ban came in or, you know, maybe

715
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,360
the ban was always there, but
did you find as a teacher that

716
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,920
it has been beneficial?
Or do you think as a teacher?

717
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,320
Oh, actually, it's, it's
restricted them in some ways or

718
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,440
socially they're, you know, it's
not as good for them.

719
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,760
Now.
What's your view on that ban and

720
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,080
the outcomes because of it?
Because we've spoken about it

721
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,680
before.
From a primary point of view, I

722
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,200
can't see any argument why you
would have phones in the room

723
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,880
ever, but from a secondary I
feel like the conversation does

724
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,840
shift a bit more.
Where do you stand and and and

725
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,560
how effective it was?
I honestly think it's the the

726
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,960
best thing that's ever happened.
To my school.

727
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,200
Brilliant.
You know, I think it's

728
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,280
absolutely brilliant.
It it just reduces so many

729
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,400
arguments in the classroom.
So just in terms of teaching and

730
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,360
learning, I'm no longer having
the battle of it.

731
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,560
Well, it wasn't.
I was just looking at my,

732
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,040
looking at my feet.
You weren't looking.

733
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,200
Through my camera.
I'm just expecting my thumbs are

734
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,600
still working.
Is it all right mate?

735
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,040
But then in terms of like for me
too, you know the one thing I

736
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,680
you know, I don't know.
I'd love to hear your guys

737
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,520
perspective on this too.
But I try to not be on my phone

738
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,560
during the day because obviously
you're teaching.

739
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,800
And actually when I first
started out on my social media

740
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,040
journey and it's since been
ironed out, which is the, and

741
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,720
this is from my end really is
actually, I was just like, no, I

742
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:56,960
shouldn't ever have my phone
out.

743
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,720
Like in the classroom really.
Maybe if there's some reason,

744
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,040
like sometimes we have two
factor authentication sort of

745
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,880
thing, but like really it's a
case of don't have your phone

746
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,000
out.
So don't do those videos where

747
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,199
the kids are in the background.
Like I know some people do do

748
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,880
that, but for me it's not
something I do anymore.

749
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,360
But then I will have my phone
out when I'm filming Tik Toks or

750
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,679
or or Instagram videos.
But it always happens after

751
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:23,120
school.
So I try to create that distance

752
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,440
so that you don't get called a
hypocrite in teaching.

753
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,760
As you know, if you're if you're
a hypocrite, you suddenly it

754
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,320
always a very slippery slope,
isn't it?

755
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:34,080
Hey, I know you wanted to ask
something, not that we're

756
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,080
running out of time or anything,
but this is quite a quite a

757
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,400
juicy subject you.
Wanted to.

758
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:38,520
I was literally just think as
well.

759
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,480
Hilarious.
We've left this to the end.

760
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,920
Possibly the most obvious thing
to talk about with an English

761
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:43,360
second.
School.

762
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,840
Teacher, but obviously it's the
year of reading and, and I

763
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,480
really just want to know because
as primary school teachers,

764
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,600
reading consumes us genuinely.
It's, it's obviously, obviously

765
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,600
the most important thing that
happens in primary school when

766
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,719
it comes to education.
We're not including

767
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,480
safeguarding, things like that.
I'm talking about academics,

768
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,880
right?
We need to be able to read.

769
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,880
It's the foundation for
literally everything followed

770
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,840
closely and you know, very
closely because we're

771
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,240
mathematicians ourselves,
followed very closely by maths.

772
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,560
But do you feel like the the big
decline in reading for pleasure,

773
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,680
is that noticeable because it's
notable for us in primary

774
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,560
school?
Is it as noticeable in secondary

775
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,320
school?
Like I have a relatively short

776
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,000
career, like I've been a teacher
for three years, but it is crazy

777
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,440
the amount of students I'll be
like so who reads in there free

778
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,920
time?
It's just it's so few and it

779
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,600
honestly breaks me genuinely
breaks my heart because for me

780
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,400
I'm such a big reader.
Me and my partner sit upstairs

781
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,120
every night and we read and when
I was a kid I read and read and

782
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,360
read and it was so exciting to
me.

783
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,840
And I do just sit there and I
just think to myself is why is

784
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,560
this happening?
I think about is there anything

785
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,280
I can actually do?
What I always try to do is I try

786
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,840
to recommend really
specifically.

787
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,160
So one thing that I think that
everyone and every teacher and

788
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,200
anyone who is in any interaction
with kids can do is read young

789
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,840
adult fiction because you can
then recommend.

790
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,720
And I know that people will go
argue, but I want to be reading

791
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:05,640
something.
But you forget recommending

792
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,240
Dickens.
If you want to inspire a child

793
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:09,440
to read.
If you go at Tale of Two Cities,

794
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,600
they are laughing in your face.
Whereas actually, for example,

795
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,600
there's an amazing series by a
guy called Robert Muchamore

796
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:19,040
called the Cherub series.
It's about young child spies and

797
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,600
it deals with young you.
Mentioned this the other day,

798
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,800
it's amazing.
Nate it's such a great book and

799
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,400
sorry series and it deals with
these young adult things and it

800
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,240
catches them.
And again, it comes down to that

801
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,800
nuance of being like, no, I know
you don't have to have gang.

802
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,080
It doesn't have to be gangs to
get boys interested, but I think

803
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,080
it might help.
So like, let's just meet them

804
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:41,600
where they're at.
And like reading like this is

805
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:42,800
the thing.
And there's a great start and I

806
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,800
wish I knew exactly where it
came from, but it's something

807
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,800
along the lines of the biggest
predictor of future success in

808
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,120
whatever way you define success
is reading for pleasure.

809
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,400
And if that's the case, you've
got to remember it's not reading

810
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,760
self help, it's not reading
textbooks, it's reading for

811
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,760
pleasure.
Because if you are interested in

812
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,760
it, it's snowballs, it compounds
and and you just go and go and

813
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,240
go.
So for me in schools, we

814
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,080
probably do have to start having
a conversation about, we've

815
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,000
traditionally gone for
challenging texts because we

816
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,800
talk about it being right for
students to have access to these

817
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,240
bigger texts.
But what if we lose them because

818
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:20,120
we miss the mark and they
actually just go, like you said,

819
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,520
to go back to the very start?
Chasm's too great.

820
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,400
You've lost me and I'm.
I'm no longer reading.

821
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,440
Or do we go?
Do we have to then reduce the

822
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,760
books?
But then do you risk patronising

823
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,960
those students you want to go?
So we come back to the grey

824
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,840
area, which I.
Yeah.

825
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,200
It's tricky.
It's it's tricky.

826
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,720
I am what I love as well.
You know, we asked, we asked you

827
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:43,880
to chat on this podcast because
there's so many strings to what

828
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,280
you're doing.
That's interesting to us.

829
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:46,840
Obviously spoke about
masculinity.

830
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,000
This version about your social
media.

831
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,080
We're touching on English now
and a big, a big thing that drew

832
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,440
me genuinely, as I'm a, I'm a 32
year old bloke.

833
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:59,080
It still drew me in to see a
grown man talk passionately

834
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,520
about the arts and reading and
and getting into a book and

835
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,320
poetry.
That drew me in because I don't

836
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,640
see a lot of it.
I don't see that online.

837
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,960
So when I see you doing it, even
as a person who's fully grown

838
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,320
and understands the benefits and
I've been in education my whole

839
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,680
life, it still made me think,
Oh, it is beautiful to pick up

840
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,440
an amazing book and get lost in
it for the sake of just getting

841
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,440
lost in it.
Not because I want to my

842
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,120
business, not because I want to
have a self help book on how I

843
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,560
can get up earlier in the
morning, but because I wanted to

844
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,600
be immersed in a world that I'd
never been in before and enjoy

845
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,920
myself.
And I've, I've, I've watched

846
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,600
your video sometimes and I've
gone to bed and I thought, I'm

847
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,440
going to put my phone down and
pick up my Kindle.

848
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:38,960
I'm going to pick up my book and
read.

849
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,880
And you've done that to me, a
first two year old man who still

850
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,880
understands it's important.
So what I'm trying to get across

851
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,680
now is, you know, we've spoken
about reading for pleasure and

852
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,440
how it's really important.
I know it's important and I

853
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,040
still none sometimes need that
kick up the arse for someone to

854
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,000
say actually you will enjoy it
if you just do it and have a bit

855
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,000
of self-discipline and pick up a
book and read it.

856
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,960
And I think what you're doing is
fantastic and clearly your kids

857
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,880
are getting a great deal.
And I don't know if you just

858
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,360
want to talk for a second about
the importance when you're

859
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,680
posting these things.
Do you do it just because you

860
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,120
love it?
Or are you thinking to yourself,

861
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,640
do you know what?
I'm gonna be that role model,

862
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,360
like we said before, for these
young kids to actually if one

863
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,360
person picks up a book in your
class, you've done your job.

864
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,240
It's difficult, isn't it?
Because I honestly do try to be

865
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,280
authentic.
And I think that if I was

866
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,280
pushing a narrative, it would,
it would crumble and, and break.

867
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,120
You know, it's very hard to
pretend you're writing poetry.

868
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,120
Do.
A.

869
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,600
Poem that's what you get a lot
and I go, don't tempt me, right,

870
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:44,360
because I will and you'll be So
there's that.

871
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,360
And then I think like, I'm just,
I feel lucky because I love

872
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,760
reading And I think that
sometimes I, I feel bad for

873
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,880
people who don't love reading
because it's more of a challenge

874
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,560
for them.
And then I feel heartbroken for

875
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,440
those people who can't read.
And I, I sometimes think about

876
00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,800
this.
I've got again the poem that I

877
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,480
mentioned earlier which talks
about these things is Do you

878
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,840
really think not being able to
read is what that student

879
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,760
desired?
Is a line from it where I'm

880
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,480
like, kids want to read.
They do because it's the limit

881
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,040
of their language, is the limit
of their world.

882
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,240
And so we need to empower them.
And there's some wonderful work

883
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,200
being done in my school and I'm
really learning a lot from the

884
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:19,600
people putting that provision in
place.

885
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,640
And it's something that I am
loosely.

886
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,760
Again, you can't, you can't have
too much on.

887
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,240
But I'm so interested in
learning how to help those

888
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:29,080
children at the lower ends of
reading when they come up into

889
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,000
secondary school because we're
not trained on how to do it.

890
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,600
Then you fall into that trap of
if you've got a student, let's

891
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,160
say he's 14 or she's 14 and she
can only read at let's say A5

892
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,160
year old level, they, they don't
love that reading.

893
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,320
So you, you do fall into that
really tricky situation where

894
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,600
again, you need time.
More importantly than that, you

895
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,800
need space because they often
don't want to have to be

896
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,640
learning how to read in front of
their mates.

897
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,760
So it's such a, it's such a
tricky issue.

898
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,680
That's way more than just let's
just teach them how to read.

899
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:57,960
It's how do you teach them how
to read?

900
00:40:58,240 --> 00:40:59,840
Who are the people who are
teaching them how to read?

901
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,400
Because if they don't trust that
person, there's no way they're

902
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,280
sitting down with someone they
don't like or trust and going

903
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,760
through their phonics at the age
of 14.

904
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:15,480
So it's such a tough one.
And guys, when you figure out,

905
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:16,920
when I figure out, let's jump
back on.

906
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,600
It's never ending battle.
It's never a never ending quest.

907
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,760
Genuinely, I'm going to leave
you with this last question.

908
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,280
Raj, one of those, a quick one,
given everything, will you come

909
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,200
down to primary and teach and
teach English at that level or

910
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,720
would you think you'll just stay
where you are for now do?

911
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:34,960
You know, one thing I will say
is on that I love the topics.

912
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,680
The if you get me in on on
Egyptian topic, Yeah, and do

913
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:41,760
some stuff.
There you go, you're in.

914
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,600
Just wanted to say, George,
thank you so much for your time

915
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,640
and thank you for your insights.
And it's so interesting to me,

916
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,240
hopefully the listeners as well,
I've got something out of it.

917
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:52,320
So I appreciate that,
definitely.

918
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,440
It's so hobs to you, by the way.
So hobs actually, I think we've

919
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,480
transcended to that space the.
Kids, the kids call me Hobnobs,

920
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,600
so you can go.
There you go.

921
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,200
There you go.
That is it from now.

922
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,480
From my end though, as well,
just when I first stumbled

923
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,960
across your videos, I remember
sitting there and it did

924
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,120
something for me where I went,
Oh, I felt a bit more empowered.

925
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,960
Like I used to be that guy who'd
come in with a smile on my face

926
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,320
and do whatever, and I never
really thought about it.

927
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,080
And you know what?
You just changed my perspective

928
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,760
on the way I see my professional
life and I think it's really

929
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,080
important what you're doing.
I, I am a massive advocate for

930
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,400
it.
You do it in a way that's really

931
00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:29,480
digestible and really fun to
watch.

932
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,960
And having met you guys in
person, what's really nice is

933
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,560
you're actually both such nice
guys.

934
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,680
Not saying that you I didn't
think you would be.

935
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,160
You can click them up.
You hate to make yourself.

936
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,320
Say it, it's fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

937
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,200
But it's it's been great to have
to be on here and thanks for

938
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:45,200
having me.
Nice one.

939
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:50,080
Cheers mate, thanks so much.
I hope you enjoyed that chat as

940
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,440
much as we did.
What a nice guy doing things

941
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,360
that mean a lot to him.
Absolutely fantastic.

942
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,440
You can follow Mr Hobbs down
below, putting the show notes,

943
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,000
links to his social media and if
you enjoyed the episode, why not

944
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,480
leave us a review and share it
with someone you think might

945
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,960
also enjoy it.
We'll catch you next time for

946
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,000
another episode.
See ya.