Ep 185: Q&A: Supporting Your Whole Class, Recognising Burnout & Ridiculous Teacher Tasks To Reject!

0:00 Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of TCP. My name is Dylan. And my name's Hayden. Back with. Another Q&A, What does Q&A stand for Hayden? Question and answer. Queen and Albert, let's go. First question, any tips on how to help a child who is working at a lower level than their chronological age? I'm a new secondary teacher and have GCSE history class with one child who has very low literacy skills as it's a subject that needs quite a high level of literacy. He is really struggling and because I teach a very mixed ability group it isn't easy to give him the attention that he needs. I know you guys taught primary school so I thought you might have experienced this more than we do in secondary. I listened to your episode a few weeks ago and I totally agree that parents are playing a big part in getting them back up to speed. But if this support simply isn't happening, do you think there's anything that we can do to get kids like this to where they need to be?

0:47 Very interesting from the secondary perspective. I was reading that and I thought, do you know what? Welcome to the old daily primary experience of just children not being where they should be. It is interesting, I will say about secondary and and literacy because at the end of the day, you're a history teacher. Yeah. There is only so much you personally can do for their literacy schools. Whereas with with primary school you know it is it's front and centre of what they do all the time. It's like when you do do history, it's like, well, like I, I teach you English as well so I know your literary schools can account for that. It must be quite hard in secondary. That's exactly what I was thinking because I was like, at the end of the day, every primary school teacher's teaching literacy, Yeah, like, you're doing all of the subjects, but if you're a specialist in a particular subject in secondary, is it fair to hold you to the same account?

1:28 It's tricky because. Like they mentioned, like is that just a prerequisite of, well, you are teaching them year 10 history and if they can't quite read properly or understand the text and comprehension, at what point is that genuinely not your job? But equally it's your job to get them to understand and you need to support them. So it is of course your job as well. So that's really hard, I. Think, yeah, yeah, I think there's a middle ground because regardless of the fact that we just said primary school teachers teach everything. So we can establish that maybe it's a bit more normal for if you're teaching history in primary, you kind of know what the children are at different levels. And you would account for that in the in the resourcing of the lesson perhaps or in the way you teach and the way you group up, basically any part of the role of actually teaching in front of kids. I don't think that completely goes away just just because you're a secondary school teacher, but I do think there's probably should be some more leeway. I think ultimately, like you can't do nothing. I don't think this person can just go, Oh well, not my fault, kid, do nothing.

2:21 I think you've got to try and do something. I just don't think you need to beat yourself up over the fact that by the year 10, they can't do the specialist subject that you're teaching. I think you can probably, you know, there's almost definitely some resources or differentiation you can put in place, which I imagine is still quite commonplace anyway, by that point, have some some levels of thinking about the fact that not all children are cognitively exactly the same, right? Yeah, for sure. And I think if you look at, you know, I'm going to take it to the just as a generic, generic point now about asking about a child below their chronological age, what can you do to support them? I'm thinking now from my point of view, in the afternoon lessons when I knew there were groups of children in my class who weren't quite at the level or everyone else, you know, did I still expect them to join in? It's like, well, yeah.

3:03 And also, I suppose you can take a look at what are your aims for your subject. If you look at history, obviously the aims for history, and I'm just going to take a few as an example, might be the ability to interpret sources. And it's like, OK, well, how much of that is dependent on a child's chronological age for their reading? Or could you adapt something so that it's at their level in terms of their literacy, but they can still be interpreting sources and looking at bias, etcetera, and still ticking the boxes for that history lesson, just that you you've adapted it so it's at a lower level and they can access it. Are they still then going to be access in the history curriculum? Yeah, sounds like there would be. It reminds me of everything we learned in primary really, which is trying not to just box off children purely based on electricity.

3:48 I remember before teachers said to me or head teachers and leaders would say things like don't assume just because that child struggles in English lessons that they're now going to need the exact same level of support or help all the time. In some, you know, insert any afternoon subject. She was like, sometimes you'll. Find those for reading. They will with specific elements but like it was on a wider sense, they were like, don't just assume they can't do anything and are not interested just because they struggle with English like or they struggle with maths and therefore they don't want to do this thing. It was a really good point because there were just genuinely some children who would flourish in those afternoon subjects if you allowed that support. Like you said, you took away some of the burden of the thing they struggle with, which was reading. Even though it's obviously integral, they still then flourished in the actual subject itself when you just helped them overcome that.

4:32 OK, you struggle to read this and when you struggle to write, but you're just, as you know, switched on when it comes to being interested in this historical subject or even remembering the facts that I'm that I'm teaching you. Yeah, like interest is a weird one, because interest isn't really on the curriculum level, that kind of stuff. And as a teacher, obviously you want everyone to be interested all the time. And the level of literacy, if that ruins a child's interest in something that makes sense to you to account for that. But. Literally just the pure actual skills. Like I can think of some children who I've taught previously. Who really, really, really. Low ability in their English and their reading and they struggle to read properly and it takes them a long time just to decode words and they've got to try and understand what they mean etc and go from there. But with a little bit of pre teaching of vocabulary beforehand with pictures and support, when it got to the lesson for science, those children genuinely were ahead of the rest of the class because they already knew what a canine tooth was, they already knew what a molar was. And it didn't matter that they couldn't read it. They'd been taught it beforehand and had some prompts. And then when we spoke about the what what the actual teeth were doing in the mouth and the roles they had and the link it had to digestion, they were ahead of the game because they had that little bit of pre teaching.

5:37 So with the right support, you can actually get children on a level or further literally attainment wise if you reduce that barrier in just literacy, for example. And yeah, like these children, I remember 1, the assistant had covered my class and we were in the middle of a unit about digestion and teeth. He was in year 4 and he finished and we were just talking after and he was almost like flabbergasted at how well certain children are done in that lesson because. And he said himself like, I just had this preconception that these children, obviously because they don't have the literacy skills, will find it much more tricky. And he was like, wow, the pre teachings really clearly working because in class discussion and when we literally looked at the objectives of the lesson, they were at the top of the class. And I think that's that's what you can do for children who are below their chronological age.

6:29 You can make adjustments so that you can still meet the needs. Are they ever going to crack on and be exactly what everyone else is in terms of literacy and reading? No, that is a long, long road. But then the literacy is so embedded in everything. I can understand why people think, well, in that case, I guess they're low in everything. Really. Genuinely, no. And if you're actually assessing their historical skill or their scientific skill or their geography skill or their physical education, obviously is the most obvious one. That's so separate. Yeah. There are degrees of separation that you can, I think, with support, give children so they can still flourish to an extent. Is it harder the older you get? I think that's what I was. Going to say next. I was like, at the end of the day, it is easier for us to say as primary school teachers. And I do sympathise with this person because I even said it in the in the question. It's a subject that needs quite a high level of literacy. So when it gets more and more linked to the actual subject itself, like it clearly does, the higher up you get, I can see it posing more of a problem.

7:21 Like I really can. And as much as you know, you can try any of these strategies and things we're saying, I can appreciate that It does just get to a point though, where you are just limited. Like we're not perfect and there isn't, this system is flawed. Like there is a point where where you can literally look at a situation and go, I can implement everything I possibly can within the constraints of reality here. But at the end of the day, it's year 10 and reading is linked to 90% of the stuff we do. And if they can't read, I simply, they simply cannot access what we're doing. And, and I can't do anything about that. And it sucks because it's like admitting defeat, but there is only so much you can do. And and you even pointed to it yourself. You know, parents do play a big part of it.

8:02 And it's not all on you. I mean, it's just worth remembering you as the history teacher in year 10, their entirety of their life up to that point. And whatever's got them there and whatever, you know, might be going on with that child or that family or maybe SEND anything is not actually your fault. And but you know, so you've just got to do what you can using the things that we've said. But there isn't. There is. Any progress is good if you frame it as I'm going to help this child get as far as they can, and even if you do it a little bit, that's better than nothing as compared to I need everyone to get to this line and if they haven't, I've failed. I think that's a nice way of framing it. I also think if I think back to like when I did history or geography, etcetera, there was a huge amount of it that was in the skill of the teacher to translate something from the page to real life. If I think back to what I remember, I remember my history teacher stood at the front telling stories, drawing on sources and interpreting them almost for the class as well. Sure, we still went away and looked at newspaper clippings, or I remember we looked at cartoons, sometimes political cartoons.

8:56 There's no reason why these kids can't look at them and understand them. I remember watching documentaries, clips from documentaries. So as long as you're sprinkling in those opportunities that aren't just simply sat down reading a text for an hour, I think that's good pedagogy anyway. And I think that's good for anyone regardless of their literacy levels. But if you just, I think have at the forefront of your mind what different tasks can I do that just allow as much involvement from everyone as possible, I think that's a net gain At the end of the day. Are they going to have to sit and write an essay? And then yes, they are. So you know, there comes a point where you have to just say, look, I can do what I can for you. But the end of the. Day you've got a lot to. Work on that isn't just in my subject. Yeah. And this child might not get the grades that they want, but in in that in that process, they can still learn, they can still make progress themselves through all of the things you said as well.

9:40 Yeah. Tricky. One question, so next question. Next three questions. In fact, we're from the same person. Did you write them yourself? I did not write them myself, did you? Just set yourself up for a little. All these lovely people sending the questions. You're like, do you know what? I was going to write my own ones here and. The first one is why is Hayden so much cooler than Dylan? Really interesting, no, Right. So first, first of the three questions then is what are the early signs of teacher burnouts that people often ignore? And what can teachers do before it reaches breaking point? Very good question. Hives. Yeah, that's quite early. Or any other. I'm really itchy. Any other physical signs I'm? Stressed, probably fainting randomly. Yeah, painting. Overtired bags under the eyes, walking into the door.

10:21 Walking Yeah, Classic 1. Walking in and someone saying, oh, you look tired when you're actually OK and you think, Oh yeah, I am. Yeah, I pretend you are. Any teacher, isn't it? That's any teacher ever. I, I do you know what early signs of burnout? It's so hard because talking about myself personally now for a second and stress, you know this. I don't feel stress in what I deem as the traditional way where my brain fogs up and my brains filled with things and I think, oh gosh, I'm just overthinking everything. I'm so stressed. I've got so much. You don't recognise it, do you? I don't. Recognise it because to me that's traditional stress. That's what stress is. And clearly that's just a really bad understanding of stress that I think most people have, which is stress is only one thing when it's filling your head and you've got lots to think. About and you think, oh, I'm so stressed. Exactly, exactly.

11:06 Whereas I've learned over over years that my body stress is linked. Not only it's a mental thing, but it becomes a physical thing for me. Or I get like reflux. I, I, my, my stomachs and I get chest pain literally. Like I, I begin to feel ill and then I'm like, oh, what am I stressed over? And I think backwards and I go, oh, yeah, that makes sense. It's because of this, this and this. So that's how I've learned what stress is for me. And early indicators for me were genuinely don't, don't put down or diminish your physical health as an indicator of you're overworked, you're overwhelmed. Percent because it's all linked. You're sitting ill all the time. Like I say, you're getting chest pains out of nowhere you don't normally get. You're getting indigestion that you don't normally get. That for you, like you said, was.

11:47 Just really bad reflux. And it was ages. It took you ages, didn't it? I remember you one day being like, Oh my God, like almost like realising that oh God, obviously this is stress and I've just not been recognising this as stress. I've been thinking oh why am I ill? For some reason, because people said, is it your diet? I was like, I diet, It's awful all the time. If it was my diet, I'd constantly be having reflux. So it's not my diet. And I just made that link where I was like, actually, if I look back the last four times I felt this way, something has been going on either in my personal life or in my work life that I can point to and say, oh, I'm feeling overwhelmed and stressed out. And that's how it manifested itself. So for me, the point I'm making here is that for every single individual person, I do think it will be different and I do think it manifest itself differently. So I don't be this person sound this podcast going, oh, you're listening to me. Well, I'll tell you what the early signs are. You should look out for this bag under your eyes. Literally hives because it's physical stuff for you. Yeah, you weren't joking.

12:37 That's fair enough. I think one for me would be like my snappiness, like obviously everyone has a temperament and, and you can, you can get snappy. Genuinely, no, it's not necessarily like early burnout, right? No, I, I found that in general, and I have seen this in other people as well when they, when people are getting more towards burnout, they are just quicker to react to stuff quicker to get annoyed by things. I certainly did that. It's almost like you're predisposed to be annoyed about the fact that you're burning out. It's like, and then and then you're just, I don't know. I just found I was when I was feeling like that, I I just found I was really, really irritated by stuff like way more easily and then and. This back out. Yeah, and then I then I'd like reflect on it a bit like you and be like, oh, it's because I'm really stressed right now and I'm just being snappy towards people.

13:24 I'm being a Dick. You know, very rarely am IA Dick right, Dylan setting you up there. But no, in all seriousness, you know you'd say things or react to things. You think, oh, I'd normally do that, but. What we're saying here is quite reactive. Where where we're talking about how actually it took a while to learn those prompts. Yeah, definitely. But once we learn them, then you can be more proactive, 100%. And if we're talking about now, what can you do to to stop you getting from breaking point? I think you need to learn yourself and your own body and your own needs and your own, your own cues. That's really important. Like what? What? Have you seen in your past when you're burning out, what do you see as like physically or mentally is happening to you? And then I think honestly, to be proactive, you, you just have to, and it's like a broken record. You have to prioritise yourself.

14:10 And what I mean by this is, you know, people say, oh, it's easy for you to say to just say no, but I feel like I've got to you're, you're on the verge of a breakdown. Yeah, yeah. Say no. Oh, but I've got to. You don't. Quite a lot of time you're convincing yourself you do and you don't. And don't let other people get away with making you feel that way because it's you who's bearing that burden at the end of the day. Oh, but they won't be able to do this thing that they want to do over the weekend if I don't do my work now out of my own time. That sounds a lot like a them problem. Yeah. Yeah. And if you always keeping that burden and you're taking that burden of everyone else on you, you'll be seen as the person that can they can do that to constantly. You have to say no and stop. And if you notice you're burning out, you have to reduce what you're doing and the world will keep turning and life will go on.

14:59 And if you oh, they'll just put me on a capability plan, let them and then fight it like like you have to you just otherwise I'm and I'm what I'm saying here in this situation is you're getting burnt out and feel like crap because of what's going on right now. If you constantly think of, well, if I do this, then that is it better or worse than what's currently happening to you? Because it sounds I'm talking to people who are literally burning out right now and won't be able to last any longer. So the option then has to be to try something different. You have to do that. If you're fine with how it is and you think the other option's worse, then I don't feel like it sounds like you're a breaking point. Really. I'm talking about people who are literally at the end of their tether. What can I do? Reduce, reduce, reduce. Say no, say no, say no. And if you can't do it anymore, get a different job because life is too short. Go and work somewhere else.

15:44 Your life is too short. If you're constantly feeling like crap, go and do something else, because the world will continue. That'll replace you in a nanosecond and you'll be happier, hopefully. And if you're not, at least you had to go. But it sounds like you can't get much worse. If you're at breaking point, try something different please, for your own sake. Yeah, I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. Life is too short and I think even just some other like little signs. We'll move on to next question. One more thing I thought of when you were talking there is when you get to the weekend or the half terms and you just feel like you don't really want to do anything. That's for me looking back and even now, because sometimes I still get burned out a bit or get close to burnout because we, you know, we work a lot.

16:31 I sometimes go, I recognise that. Now what I need to do is actually genuinely just stop. And I need to stop for two days. And sometimes I'll do that. I'll go a week and I'll be like, I'm do you know what? I'm just not even going to engage my brain with some of this stuff because I don't even want to do like basic things that I like. And that for me now is like a massive sign of, oh, you're overworked, you're stressed out, even though you're really bad at recognising stress a bit like you, and you just need to stop. Otherwise you'll feel like this perpetually. And that's like the worst possible outcome. So anyway, yeah, it's a tricky one. It's like Dylan said, it's personal end of the day, but you do need to just keep on top of it and as soon as you're aware of something that is a sign for you. You have to be proactive about it. Go, go, go, go, go. My next the. Next part of the three parter is. Why is it? This is a better trilogy than Star Wars, isn't it?

17:13 Isn't just The Godfather Part 2? And there's many Star Wars trilogies. Why is it that teachers. There's a trilogy of trilogies. There's a literally a trilogy of trilogies which is maybe a bit better than this. What's your favourite ever trilogy? Oh my God. Mine was Toy Story, then they brought 4 out and now it's not a trilogy anymore but the first 3 Toy Story films. Unbelievable. Yeah, I'm thinking blade blade 1-2 and three. Those were some sweet films. Give me Shrek the Third any day, baby. Sorry, but. Right. Why is it that teachers can control a room of 30 plus children but completely lose the ability to say no to one extra task in a staff meeting? It's good question. Some teachers, some teachers can't control a room with 30 children.

17:57 It's not there and. One of them is in this room. But I can say no, that's for sure. Guilt. There's a lot of guilt that goes on in this profession. Of course, feeling like you have got to have got to do, I've just got to do it. You don't. News flash, genuine news flash. You can say nerd stuff, It's a job, but why? Why is it teachers can do that but then lose the ability? I think it's AI think it's because they're in different environments. And I have a theory that I've had for a long time, which is that the environment of a school and being a teacher and you're in charge and this idea of I am your guardian and I am the person guiding you and I'm in charge. And if I say don't do it, don't do it, and then just follow my instructions, please. And I'm in charge of you guys as a classroom.

18:38 I think that when you work in a school, that translates to also sometimes leadership to you. Yeah, I was literally thinking that that happens all the time. So you just revert back to it. You literally sat in a classroom with someone at the front saying they're doing this new initiative. You just turn into the little sheet like, yes, OK, so sure. You no, you it's a different dynamic. And there's too often that dynamic is is merged into one. The dynamic of you in your class is not the same dynamic as your leader in you as a professional. And and that I think if you're asking me why it happens, I think that very. Often I think your theory is like, very, very like likely to be true. Because if you spend, you spend 13, every year you've spent in school, there's been someone who is like your boss, like your teacher essentially, right?

19:22 You spent 13 years as that person who had a teacher you need to listen to. So it makes sense that when you go back as a teacher, you still have that feeling of, oh, I'm in a school though. And this is where like, I'm, I'm now in charge of these guys, but these guys are in charge of me. I'm their pupil. I get it. Like it makes sense as to why you do that. And it's wrong and I don't like it. And I've spent. I've spent. So you know what it's like. I spent a lot of my career just trying to convince people that it's not rude or bad to be in a discussion and question something. Yeah, because you are a qualified professional doing a job. You're not a child in a classroom. And too often people go, well, if it's good enough for the kids, good enough for me, and a lot of different scenarios, right. It's like, well, why should the kids be picked up in their uniform if a teacher's not going to wear a full suit?

20:04 Because we're not the same, you idiot. It's not equivalent. There's not. It's not an equal game here. They're a child in a class and I'm a teacher teaching them. It's not equal. Yeah, they're not so. There's differences and you just have to like it's it's just not the same relationship when it comes to now you as professional on your boss. Are there some things your boss can tell you to do? Yes, of course there are there a boss the whole system would collapse and you couldn't have someone making decisions. But equally, when it's part of your contract being asked to do extra you, you have to just say no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The amount of times said something, we don't have to do this and they're like, oh, but who will do it otherwise? No one. Yeah, yeah, no one. This isn't a we don't have to have someone do this. You've made-up a situation where one of us has to do it because you feel bad and.

20:49 It always happens to be me, yeah. Because I won't be doing it. And a big part of thing why I tried to convince lots of people to say no is because I didn't want to end up feeling like the guilty one because I always said no to stuff. And then your team would end up having to do the stuff because they didn't want to say no. This literally happened by the way, to me where we had policies of having to do hallway displays, right? And it was, and then at the start of the year, they just made this rota of who was in charge of the hallway display at certain points of the year. And I, and I just said I was like, guys, I'm sorry, but I'm not doing this. It's just, it's literally, it's not, it's extra. It's not part of my job. I'm not, I'm not good at them anyway. Not that that matters. I don't want to do it. I've got enough on my plate. I'm not doing that. And then, and my point was, let's just go to management and say as a year group, we'll put up a couple of displays, but I'll just stay there for the whole year. And we're not going to be putting them up and down because it is just extra.

21:42 And it was like, oh, yeah, OK. A week later it turns out all they did was just redo the rotor so it included everyone instead of me, so they just put me off the rota. I end up looking like a. Result. Yeah, I know It's great. It's well, I don't want to do it. I'm joking. No, but but well, it is a result for me. Yeah. But the the point I was trying to make was it is just another lot of stuff you have to think about that is genuinely not part of your job. And literally if you look at the appendix of jobs teachers are expected to do or not, it says you should not be doing this, right. So you can not even being rude, just say, hey, guys, sorry, don't know if you noticed this, but I don't have to do that. So I'm not going to do it. And just the fact that it ended up just being, they both took on one of my slots each. They could do the rotor between themselves. I was like, now you're doing more work. Yeah, yeah.

22:24 That's not. That's not what I want. I'm talking behind your back now saying yeah, I'm doing more work because he didn't want a bloody do it, didn't he? Lazy teacher. Yeah, lazy lefty. Just beta teacher. I'm like, honestly, I'm like, OK, at some point I have to just, like, wash my hands and be like, if you want to do a fight, clearly you want to do it. Yeah, clearly you value doing that more than just, you know, speaking up for your own working rights. And by the way, these are the same people who would say to me it's it's ridiculous that we've got to do. It. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, OK, well, should we not then? Oh no. No. What does the teacher tell? I mean, I mean, Boss told me to, yeah. Honestly, it's like, OK, so if we just want to moan and not do anything about it, I'm not interested in that conversation. Yeah, goodbye. Enjoy doing this display go. Home. Yeah, honestly, honestly, I leave, right. I remember a couple of times I left and they were doing the display in the hallway.

23:10 I don't want to do that. If you listen to this podcast with nearly 200 episodes right now, I hope you do understand. I really do genuinely care about people, and I wouldn't be doing this otherwise and giving this advice out to people. But there's only so much I can do, and that kind of translates to that as well. It translates both ways. There's only so much I can do and say repeatedly to people. You don't have to do this, by the way. You need to decide to not do it. If they then decide not, I can't control that. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to feel guilty for your choice to go and do that because there was a situation here when none of us had to do it and you've chosen to not do that. It's like, OK, you want OK, cool. I didn't do it. Did I get in trouble? No, because it was fine what I did. What if you're wrong? What do you mean? What do you mean what? If you're wrong about the assumption that there was a situation way done if you had to do it because it never got that far, no. But what I never exactly, I never found out. And also and also I'm not wrong.

23:57 Like it's it's literally enshrined in the contract that we don't have to do it. Yeah. So what do you mean by wrong? What if the SLT turn around and they were just they don't care about like they're not, they're not being correct with the contract. They say sorry guys, you just got to do. It and the burden is on them and then. Your team still goes, oh, we don't want them. We don't. We don't upset anyone. We're just going. To do it, we know. We know it's wrong. It's still on them. It's still on them because they're still accepting something. It's not wrong. Yeah, they're accepting then, taking on something they don't have to do, and that's on them. So someone had the opinion of you, which was, Oh yeah, Dylan just doesn't do certain. Things they did. Or no, no, no, I'm trying. I'm really trying to play devil's advocate here. Right? Yeah. Someone turns around and says in that situation, they see you walking home and. And they're doing, the other guys are doing the display. Yeah.

24:40 And someone says, Oh yeah, Dylan, Dylan has a really good point to say about XY and Z about not doing displays because on the contract. But ultimately it has just left it. Now other people are just picking up his slack. Yeah, but they don't have to do it is. That what you say? Yes, I'd be like. You don't have to do it though. That that's the end. Like what? You don't do it. Yeah, yeah, What more can I say? Like, oh, what if, what if they did have to do it? They don't. They don't. They don't. Oh, what if the the pick flying through the sky was pink? It's not pigs can't apply. It's like, it's such a such a ridiculous. What if you don't have to do it? You've convinced yourself you've got to do it. And if someone tells you incorrectly, you've got to do something which you don't have to do and you believe it. That's not a me problem.

25:20 We could just put something like to display the display in the hallway. About the water cycle, is it important that changes every six weeks to be now? About the creation story, no one cares. Some people do. Some people and if they. Care. They can do it, yeah. What about it's the kids that care? Kids. Can do it then crack on. You won't do it mate. I'm not doing it. Yeah, it is. I'll try. I can't find any more on you here. You've defended yourself well. I always felt like such a simple solution of. Not do it at all. Yeah, not do it at all. Or if it's really that important, right, either the person that thinks it's really that important does it from SLT in some of their non contact time. And I'm not suggesting they're not busy as well, but you could be.

26:01 All busy, so why is it on me not Yeah. We're all busy, so if you think it's, if anything, I'll sort my classroom out. That's the bit I carry you. You're you have the whole school as senior leadership. It has actually probably more your thing than my thing because I don't teach in the corridor. You walk up and down that more than I do so. You crack on that. And or or the better solution to me is just like just the school just has some sort of school wide system of getting displays done that doesn't revolve on just potluck of whether the teachers will do it or not. Genuinely why can't schools? Some schools have if they're lucky enough big enough have like a a resource person will do it. But a lot of schools will just have at least one TA in the whole school who can could be released from another job to do that if they're that important. Get someone to do it that that's not just going to be a teacher. Oh.

26:44 No, no, no, they can't do that because they have to be with the kids at all times. Because they're not important. Exactly. It's not that important. It's not that important then. If it's not that important, then yeah, yeah. Wait, sorry. So what you're saying is it's, it's a teaching assistant can't possibly be released from a classroom from their support to do a display because it's it's not that important, but it's so important that a teacher in their own time has to do it. Yeah, Yeah. Sorry, they're not close. That's not on the same level. That's not on the same higher. And if you're saying it's not in their own time, you're saying another job of a teacher doing the display is more important than that other part of that role. So it's like, OK, so they don't plan something or they mark something. It's like, so it's not, there's nothing in a teaching assistant's role that is like less important, but in a teacher's role, you can find something that a display can override it.

27:29 It doesn't make sense to see. That's what it boils down to. Ultimately, people are just chanting their arm. Of course, they just want people to do it in their own spare time and they don't want to do it themselves. Exactly, and that's why you just have to say no else. That continues to happen. This is the theme of the podcast in the last few weeks. I feel like you have to actually take action if you want something to change. Sure, that's what I'm saying. Say no, go on, let's complete the trilogy. The Empire Strikes Back. Here we go, The Last Jedi say Return of the Hope. Return of the hope. Shrek the Third. Shrek, the third hope of the returning of the. What is the? Story 3. This time, the toys don't come home. No, this time the toys say what is the most ridiculous thing teachers are expected to do, but we've all somehow just accepted as. Normal displays, displays, displays. I knew you're gonna say.

28:12 That I knew you're gonna say that. I'm trying to think of something that's different now. OK, OK, let me let me be really clear. Yeah, the most ridiculous thing that teacher expected to do that we're all just how accepted as normal is displays that are just on just looks. What's the word I'm looking for? Not the decorative aesthetics. Yeah, aesthetic displays. OK, the ridiculous you're. Getting into, you're getting into the. Ridiculous of displays. Let me tell you a story and you'll know this. In my initial school, it became a policy which we all had to do, was that our door had to be a book cover. Everyone, everyone. We've all got to do a book cover on our door. What are you on about, you idiots? What do you mean my door has to be a book cover? Are you stupid?

29:02 It's a door. It's a door. Open the door. But it's inviting. It looks nice, just like a reading corner. It's a door. It looks better when it's got a book on it surely does it looks. Tatty after a week because it's a door that people push, pull and open and squeeze, and it's a door. And it's got a massive window in the middle of it. Yeah, it was covered now or can you keep your door open please so we can see in or casted door handle now. Oh my God, insane. That was that was the ultimate, ultimate, ultimate version for me, which was just like, OK, yeah, that's ridiculous. And everyone's just like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm really artistic. Good for you. That's great for you. Nice.

29:42 Well done. I'm. I'm glad you enjoyed that on your Saturday morning. I didn't. I didn't enjoy doing. That I'd make my door a book cover yeah I'm not even if someone wanted to do that then crack on mate yeah but like a a school wide like you've got to do this sorry when make. Up yourself if someone came to you a. Door. Sorry, but how big is a door? If someone came to you right, like SOT and I said, look, this is what we we're gonna do. We're gonna do a nice. But we're on each door, I'd be saying. Score. That's fine. I'm in a good at. Should we place cup? Should we? Should we do a role play? We can because I'm being a good. At Go on, go on, go and come to. Me we we want to do book covers on all the. Sorry, one second. Let me just finish marketing. So much marketing today. Go. On yeah, sorry for taking your time. I appreciate your time is important.

30:23 So you're a good SLT. Apparently I am. So what I've done is I've made a list. I've got I'm gonna get all these prepared. I've got 24 doors. Yeah. And I've got 24 book covers. Yeah. I just want you to pick the one you want. It's just first come, first serve. So here's a list. OK, which one do you want? To have a look at David Williams, please. Yeah. OK, you want. David Williams, all David Williams. Yeah, set that nice example. Which David Williams you want on that one? Cool. What we're gonna do is sarcasm. Sarcasm, sarcasm. Alert. What we're gonna do is get someone to whip that up. Yep, one of the TA is gonna come out next week and then we'll just give you the pack and then you just need to blue tack up on your up on your door. Is that right? Yeah, well, I've got to put it up. Yeah, if that's all right. That's fine. What I'm teaching, What I'll do is I get one of my teaching assistants just spend 10 minutes there. No problem. Brilliant. That's fine. OK. Nice one. I'm a good SL teacher, thank you. No problem. So in that situation, would you have an actual issue? Hell no.

31:03 Yeah, of course not, right. Yeah. So it's not. So I just want the whole point of that is to be really clear. You're not just some Scrooge who hates things that might look nicer than other things for children. No better reading corner. I'm not doing a reading corner. No, no, no, no. It's just the fact that sometimes if it is purely aesthetic and the door, the door being a book is a bit more aesthetic, I think, than a reading corner. Just to be really clear, I'm exaggerating being silly, but yeah, if it's just someone else has decided that you now have to take on this additional workload for this very minor aesthetic thing that most schools don't do, so really, we can appreciate this really is an optional extra. It's just taking the piss really, isn't it? Yeah, completely, completely. And do you know what I've had previously? Genuinely, some schools where they would say, they've said a couple of times this week's staff meeting is not happening. You've got an hour, can you please just rearrange your book? Corner?

31:47 Fine. Or something like that. 10 out of 10. I'll do it till the cows come home. By the cows, Cows come home. I mean that one hour period. Yeah. Because it's my directed time. Absolutely. And I would have otherwise been in a meeting, maybe doing something else. I'm not in it. I do my job. Yeah, I will do my job. And if it's within my parameters, I'll do whatever. If someone says, oh, we've booked cover for you. Well, I'd rather be teaching English, to be honest with you. But you put cover for this half an hour in that half an hour, all I need you to do is go and pick up your pack and put up this display. I wouldn't even bat an eyelid. And the context here is that this is always in free time. That's just expected. And it and it is not having enough of an impact on the children in my class for me to justify my own free time doing it. I already do that when it comes to planning or marking or doing things that I think have a genuine impact on the children.

32:31 And that's as part of my contract going above additional. I'm not going to do anything in that additional time, which is superfluous to me. A complete waste of time. I'm not even very good at it, and it has no impact on the kids whatsoever. The answer is no. And you can't direct me to do that because guess what? That's literally what directed time means. You cannot direct me to do something outside of it that I don't think necessary to fulfil the professional duties of my job. And newsflash, everyone making my door look like the BFG is not something I think is necessary for me to fulfil the professional duties of a teacher. Amen to that, brother. Amen. I think I've got two things about this. One meta level, even more meta. I'm trying to go bigger than this, right? And one little thing that I've heard of that I think is ridiculous for teachers to be expected to do.

33:11 Can you try and make it 3 so it's another trilogy? No, you've done the first one, so it isn't trilogy. I've got the second. I've got the second. And the third it's fine change director halfway through the vibe changed, but let's see if it. Conditions, yeah. So the big one for me is basically what you just said there. You brought out another one, which is the most ridiculous thing teachers are expected to do that we've all just somehow accepted. Accepted as normal is doing 15 hours of work extra a week on top of directed time because the contract says reasonable additional hours and gaslighting ourselves into thinking that's reasonable. No, it's not. It's ridiculous and it is normal. It is very, very, very normal for teachers to work absurd amounts of hours outside of directed hours and everyone just goes, that's just what you do. It's vocation you do for the kids. Shut up. No, it's not. No, it's not. It's a job. It's AI, don't care how you dress it up.

33:53 You can love your job. It's a job though. It's a job and making this bar, it all comes back around. The reason teachers are burning out is because there's too much work to do, because we've all accepted it's normal. That's why so many teachers burn out and quit. That's why we have some crazy stats of people quitting. So that's my big one. That was a good Are they going to ruin it with the trilogy? Because sometimes they do the third one and it doesn't. Live up, I think it might do a. Good tick, it might do this. One is just like a little normal thing. This is something that just annoys me. Teachers have been expected to do lunch juices that to me, I'm like, that's mental. We've never done it. But I know loads of teachers, including people that close to me where they're like, Oh yeah, got 2 lunch duties a week and they don't get they don't get a break, they don't get a lunch break.

34:34 Yeah, don't know. You don't. I'm sorry. And I'm not diminishing any other role in a school, but I am just picking up the fact that my role is already as a teacher, unbelievably fulfilled. And I have so much stuff to do. I don't have time to go and stand outside for an hour during lunch. Not getting my own break when I could, if I really wanted to sacrifice my own lunch. I've got a million other jobs to do that are gonna keep me his or 6. Exactly. It's like, come on, Like how many? Roles do we have to do you got prep for the afternoon lesson? Yeah, Sorry, I can't. I'm watching 5 kids have a go of each other over a football. Yeah, literally. Like it's mental. Like, again, I know we're both worried because we, we, we know the roles of people is so important.

35:14 Of course it is. But the point I'm making here is that the children, I need to prepare for them for their afternoon lesson. And there just comes a point. Not even that by the way, just my contract says I need to stop every now and then. Literally. So I did go to uni to be a teacher. I want to do like, I already focused so much of my time not on the bit. In fact, that's why I quit already. So much of my job as a teacher was not doing the thing I wanted to do, which was teach kids. And I like, this is just more that to me, I'm just like, Oh my God. Yeah. Like as if some schools are getting their teaching staff to go out and do lunch duties and stuff, break duties. I'm a bit like, it's a much shorter window of time. And I think you can contractually get away with not having that break there or? Something I think that's, I think that's. Fine, I get that break duties, but yeah, lunch. I'm like, that's a long old unpaid hour to just give up. But in our, I know as well for a fact in our most recent school, when we did break duty, we still got a break because during assembly time, that's right where you know, when people even doing maybe interventions or assembly duty, etcetera, you'd have your break.

36:12 So there was never a loss of break even even on the days you did your duty. And even that's not widespread. It's like, oh, it's duty day today. I've got no time to stop at all for 8 hours. Most schools don't. So we to be clear, we had our assembly right before break. Yeah. So most people have assembly like first thing in the morning, somebody thinking that's not really a break, I've just started. So it worked really well for us, but. Yeah, anyway, decent trilogy. Trilogy is completed. I think the third film was a bit of a cash grab, but it was all right. It didn't ruin the trilogy itself. Yeah, it's fine, 'cause we're done now. So we take the cash and run. Yeah, absolutely. And next question, School dogs useful tools or fuzzy distractions? I recently looked into getting my dog school certified and it looks like it would cost ��5000. Oh my God. Insane.

36:53 Sorry, do you know what? 5 grand Do you know what my. First thought there is go on. I know of some schools and people who've got their dog in school and I'm just thinking they spent that much on that being a thing. That's a lot. It's. Not bad, they just fired at. It for it literally, yeah, isn't that it's a. Lot of money, yeah. Overall, though, like ignoring the money, I do think they're really nice. I think they're a nice idea. I've only ever really heard of it being lovely. Yeah. So schools, I guess the only thing I've taken into consideration which is a bit allergies is allergies, yeah. Bit annoying. Oh sorry, sorry that my allergy is. Oh, it's a bit annoying. Some kids are just a little bit annoying, isn't it all my symbolism? You're allergic. Sorry everyone. There's one child, who I won't name, who's allergic to dogs.

37:39 And here's the guy called Dog Allergy Man. We'll put a little label on his book bag. I'm that the reason we can joke about this everyone, this thing who might be having a breakdown now is because I'm I'm that person with nuts where on planes I stop everyone. Having Oh my. God, sorry, just a little announcement. All passengers will not be having any nuts on today's flight because of one person due to allergic to the. C37-B If you want to know, do. You want to throw some nuts at him? So yeah, I've got a nut allergy, by the way, which is why we can joke about it, OK? Yeah, and this is a This is a nut free podcast studio, so. It is, and it's a dog free one. Yeah, it's a. Dog free as well because you're also allergic to dogs. Not allergic to dogs. I just like to defend people hating before you go after them for things they can't control. Oh yeah, I'm on the Labrador on my lap. Oh, kids are allergic.

38:22 Yeah. We can't have the lab, Dorman. Look, I wouldn't, I wouldn't really make a big thing of a child being allergic. I would just be saying you need to look these things up first before you go Oh yeah, we're all going to get a dog, excite all the kids and then look into it. I. Actually can't. Suddenly the child's below and everything, Yeah. Just yeah, take into. Consideration. But yeah, yeah. Oh, big dip, big dip. Nothing to do with the allergy. That is really horrible, Hayden. No. As someone who as someone who personally has allergies, I can't wait for the audience to cancel you. Yeah, I think it's cancellable. It's cancellable. It can be a distraction. I can imagine it can be a distraction, but every single version of it I've seen genuinely of in like two or three weeks, it's just completely normal.

39:02 Yeah. It's like, oh, there's a school dog. Like I've been in schools before walking through and like the kids have walked past the dog. Like it's not there because it's just the dog in the school. Oh. Poor dog. Horrendous, that dog's there. Check my directed time. What's my directed time at this school? You can't ask me to be petted constantly. I need a break. Poor dog getting ignored. Oh you petted it. Oh God, considering all the children is who's worse here? Cancel Dylan. He thinks it's fine to walk past animals and ignore them. I'm clutching the. Straws you are really clutching. But yeah, overall I think, I think they're lovely. If you can do it in your school, then yeah, it's a nice, a lot of money thing to do A. Lot of money. Good well-being right here. Unless unless you're terrified except for right next question. I taught ACF 5-6 split class for three years before moving to teaching maths at secondary.

39:53 It has provided a much better work life balance so I was wondering if you'd ever considered the transition? Never have. I've always thought, no, I don't want to do that. However, right now I'm the closest I think I could be to unemployed. Unemployed, desperate for money. I'm now in the position where we're like, yeah, give me any job ever. No, I. I think I would, I would, I would maybe consider it a little bit now. Whereas before it was like a flat out laugh it away. I was like, no way would I ever work in secondary school, Not for me. That's just a different ball game. Whereas now I'm a bit like, I don't know, I feel like the age gap, I was always worried that I was the age gap was too close and I wouldn't be able to like have behaviour management over 15 year olds because when you start primary school, even year sixes are a bit scary.

40:33 Whereas now I'm obviously an old man. I'm a bit like Nah, I think. I think I'm experienced enough now. And old enough second year you shave your head off. Or can you been all right? Well, this old man's 54, but we better listen to him. Yeah. Cheers, mate. Yeah, cancel him again, shall we? But I don't know. I'd consider it. I don't think I'd want to do that. No, I'd like to try it, I think I think I think I would like to like teach a few year 8 or 9 lessons at least year 78 and 9 because let's be honest, if it's in place the same, it seems great. I, I looked at a foundation GCSE paper the other day and I genuinely, every time I'm like flabbergasted by how it's just almost completely what we teach you is it's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

41:16 And something is wrong. Now I can't wait for the new curriculum to come in and please sort something out because my gut instinct is we just do too much too quick in primary. So like I would say maybe the foundation papers probably, it probably shouldn't change too much. Like maybe that's where the foundation level should be when you're doing GCSE. But that's like, that's so that's three, four years after we teach it for the first time. And like, yeah, like what? Can we not just get really good at everything else and then just whack up a bit? Maybe, Yeah. And just be really clear before the secondary mass teachers are rolling their eyes at you, Dylan. The curriculum obviously does change in year 7, year eight-year 9. And despite the fact that the GCSE, but you said the curriculum is exactly the same. I'm more honestly this guy. Well, it's matter. It's true. It's true. Right.

41:57 Fine. But I was talking about the foundation paper afterwards. Yeah, Foundation, by the way, the result. I'm not like fine. But I would also probably quite enjoy teaching maths. Yeah, definitely to secondary school kids, do you think? There'd be like a lot of transferable skill, or do you think you'd be a bit out of depth? I think there'll be a lot of transferable skill. I'm sure I would be out of my death at first anyway because there'll be some other stuff that I don't really know yet, but I think there'll be a lot of. Transferable, like there's a lot of stuff you don't know, but you teach history just fine and you kind of teach yourself. Like when you know, before I do ancient Egypt, I'll teach myself the ancient Egypt parts and stuff. Do you think it would be enough where with maths you're like, well I kind of know the journey we're on, I'll teach myself this and then it'll be absolutely fine. It'll be the same as primary. Or do you just think there'll be something that is just literally different where it'd be harder for? You I think there'll be a few little nuanced bits like that. Based on even my experience of primary, I think I became a much better last teacher over time.

42:47 Yes, because after teaching them I did realise little ways to teach certain things that are like great conceptually that I maybe I didn't know straight away even though I was really confident the maths myself. But that's nothing to do the fact they're secondary, that's just that you've not taught it before. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So I did that. That same thing happened to be in primary. I think it would happen in secondary as well. I'd look at something and go, oh, I know that how to do that really well. I know how I'm going to teach that. I'd teach it and then maybe the second year I'd go, oh, do you know what? Actually I've discovered this better way of doing it now. I think that would happen. Yeah. And most, most of the people I've spoken to about secondary who've done both do genuinely say that the workload is much less in secondary. So it's it's interesting. Off we go. See ya. Do you know what the workload is less we just quit? Yeah. Is it? I don't know. Our workload is pretty horrendous.

43:27 We give ourselves a lot of work. For that role, I'm doing less planning and delivering and marketing lessons, more other stuff. My work to pay ratio is negatively infinite so what's going on here mate? But you're not getting paid what you are. Oh my God, I'm the guy in charge of socials. Maybe we've had so many deals you don't know about and I've been slipping in like little little little things every now and then, nor VPN by now and you've already noticed. It's a joke. You've not noticed you should have all these. Strange cans of drink and. It's so weird. Yeah, get high at water now, wherever you get your water from, just in game. But now we don't have any. We don't have any deals. No, we don't know. We don't. If we did, we'd be. Yeah, definitely not with the government either. And juicing a new white paper now on SEND solving SEND for your future.

44:12 Wow, American too. Oh my God. Last question. Last question. You can do it. Just very quickly, I don't think the white paper's solving SAND and we're not being paid. What's your opinion on the scheme of opening nurseries within schools? Do you feel? That a QTS teacher is skilled enough in early years to be teaching there. I do feel that, yeah, I do. I do feel it. I do feel that. My phonics is on the point baby. I think the scheme in general is pretty good. Yeah. I like the idea of nurseries being attached to schools. I like the idea of it being a through thing. But I am completely on board with, for me, it is such a specialist role. And actually just getting QTS, for example, me, I would not hire me to go into early years right now. Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair enough. I think it's very reasonable to say that QTS is like is like a General practitioner.

45:04 Do you know what I mean? It's like, it's like fake you're you generally understand how people learn. You have pedagogies under your belt, you know sort of roughly how schools work and run. Like you're getting that general side of things. I think it's completely fair enough to say you obviously have specialists. But you go to different, but do you not feel like very specifically early years jumps out as different like QTS? Sure, it's a generic thing like we just spoke about going to secondary school and teaching. Although it's different, it's close enough because to me early years sticks out like a sore thumb, Completely different and needs and needs real specialist approach because it to me it's the most important step. Genuinely. Like if I think about setting kids up for the future, the earlier we do that, the better outcomes, like all the research says that I've ever seen.

45:46 So we need to get that right. And yeah, if it means that we end up diluting that space with people who aren't necessarily experts but they've got QTS and then moved around, that is where I think the scheme could fall down. It's interesting. And I do agree that the earlier you go down, the more it jumps out I think as needing like really specialist understanding of how to how to work and teach children at that age. But I still think if this question is, do you feel a QTS, sorry, do you feel a QTAQTS teacher is skilled enough? It's kind of a loaded question really because I don't really think anyone straight away is skilled and I think you learn, I think in teacher. I do think you learn a lot on the job though.

46:27 I was skilled enough to do year 4 teaching when I got my QTS. Skilled enough, yeah, but you still like you learn a lot. But I was skilled enough. Okay, I think someone could be skilled enough with QTS to work in early years. I think they could. I think that. I think I just think the gap is a bit bigger. I think you didn't. There's not much more scope above you for year 4. You got there quicker and it's just a bigger scope. I still think you're skilled enough. I think AQTAI think I could, and I think you could go to early years. And although it would be mad to us at first, I think we have enough understanding of pedagogy and teaching to at least start doing the job, and then we'd learn more things as we go. I'd need someone to really be heavily guided me, like I, I'd need to learn a lot from people around me. Well, you'd be doing a lot of research anywhere, like you would in any role, wouldn't you? Like if you go to year 4, I don't do a lot of research, mate.

47:10 Yeah, you don't anymore. But I'm sure the first time you went to year 4, you were obviously learning the curriculum for the first time. You didn't know the whole curriculum by the back of your hand. No, but I, what I mean is I don't think just knowing the, this is this is literally my point, by the way, just knowing the curriculum can get you by in other year groups, but I don't think it can get you by in early years because there's so much more to it, like play based learning, understanding and like emotional health, physical health. You know, the, the whole thing about, you know, some of the money, even potty trained helping them learn how to do knife. I, I don't, I, I, what I'm saying here is, are you, if you got go through QTS and you get your qualification, I think you can be put in a year group and you're skilled enough just to follow the curriculum and just stay ahead of the curriculum. But I don't think that's enough in early years where obviously we go into early years and look at the curriculum and stay ahead of the curriculum, but I don't think that it would be good enough.

47:58 And that's that's why it's glaringly different to me. So you can, you can, you know, I think what I did in year 4, I thought I was fine. I understood, I did lots of teaching practise and my pedagogy was good and I could stay ahead of the curriculum. In early years. I think you need specialist training. Yeah, OK. I agree. I agree. The way you worded that was much better. Thank you. I think the I guess what I'm trying to say is the baseline is good, though. I don't want to undermine the baseline of QTSI think, Oh no, I think that is doing 80% of of it for OK. I think it's doing 90% of it for you when you're in year 4, and I think it's doing 70% of it for you when you're in early. This is what I'm trying to say. I don't think, I don't think that void goes down to nothing and the QTS is worth nothing. Sure. So I guess yeah, that's why I say it's a loaded question, because skilled enough means yeah, yeah, I guess no is my answer to that. Do you think QTS is skilled enough early as well? No, I think you absolutely anyone going into early years needs additional specialist.

48:43 But on my side eventually. But you did. You did, to be fair. But yeah. But I don't want to undermine it. You know I. Think no, no, I don't think it's undermining at all. I think it's if anything, putting on a pedestal what early year specialists do. And I think if you are getting a job in an early year setting like that, I think you need to have specialist training in it. Yeah. I don't think you need to have specialist training in Year 4 to become a Year 4 teacher. I don't think you need specialist training in upper key Stage 2 to be an Upper Key Stage 2 teacher. Fun mutation phonics. I think I think it's a sliding scale going down. Yeah, yeah, cuz how I say it's just yeah, literally just changes. But early years, it's like, yeah, it's off the chart. Whereas year 1, rightly or wrongly, does become more formal. And QTS is like, if you've been practising in year 4, there's more of a crossover with year one. Yeah, it shouldn't necessarily be the way because it should be play based, should be continued provision. And then that my point there is that that is 100% always the case in early years, which is why it's so important. You need specialists in there.

49:36 Me and my training and QTS and having done just key stage one and two would not be suitable for me to go into an early years, an early years foundation stage because I would, I wouldn't know where to start with continuous provision. No. And, and I, I could learn what it was and I could look at the curriculum and I could put some numb blocks down. But really I think you need specialist training and be in that setting enough to get to that level where it's quality. Yeah. And, and you've year one and year 2A, higher proportion, more and more of it becomes more formal base, which you might have later on. Yeah, which is why you're more suited maybe to year 2 or 1 compared to early years. I think early years just on a pedestal. Yeah, sure. But even my point about phonics, by the way, was just that there's still stuff in year 1 and 2. Yeah, completely where it's like realistically, QTS does not prepare you to teach a phonics scheme. It doesn't like in terms of you still need some training on that phonics scheme.

50:23 Like when we when we were QTS, there's no way I could have just walked into just a year one classroom and just, yeah, just picked. Oh yeah, yeah, I know this scheme, they're intricate and phonics is like you need training on it. It's really hard to deliver correctly without someone actually saying, oh this is how you do this. Phonics same same with math schemes. Enough as ski stage. Do you think as much? Because I think I still think what you said about you could walk, I could walk into a Year 6 classroom. And realistically, I think it's completely appropriate to just as long as you stay on top of the curriculum and you've got QTS 99% done. But you still need to look at a scheme and given and and there might be certain ways that you deliver it as a class. I don't really need training on that. Really. You don't need training on that, no. Less so. Less so because you. Need training on phonics and you definitely need training on the earlier stuff.

51:03 So I'm just agreeing with you that as you go down. But in my QTS I did get phonics training. I don't like I. Did like one day or I did like contrast emplacement in case stage 1, I didn't do that. I thought you had to do. Contrast I did, I had one of my actual placements was in was in year 1, but I didn't have train, Yeah, but I didn't have training on. Did you not teach phonics? I did a little bit of teaching in phonics but only from like what the teacher told me. Like I didn't go away and do like a training course on. How to Yeah, I think that's, I think that's still part of it. Like with any scheme, you're going to need to be trained on it. Yeah. I. Just didn't think I had adequate training for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think I think that's true for a lot of things. I guess what I'm saying is the literal setting should be so different in early years that it's incomparable.

51:48 Yeah, that's what guess what I'm saying, like in terms of individual schemes and training and stuff that's ongoing and part of professional development should always happen. But the literal delivering and the way you literally teach day-to-day all of the time in early years should be and is so different to if you've just been in a setting in key Stage 1 or key Stage 2 or key Stage 3. Like it just seems so different to me. So for sure I want specialists in there with my kids. I think about my son starting school. I would quite like when he goes to early years settings for his teacher to be a specialist in early years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not just, oh, the year 6, she worked in year 6 last year or he worked in year 6 last year. They've been brought down to they've never done this before. You'd be, you'd be, you would naturally be a bit like, oh God. OK, Yeah.

52:29 Whereas if whereas if they said I was down in year 2 now after being in year 6 for so long. But oh nice. Really. Yeah. But maybe you'd have a little bit what? About the other way around. Oh this year 6 teacher was only done early years up to this point. I'd just be going to year 6 now. Yeah, completely. I'd be like, oh, that's just going to be very different. That's, that's a tricky one. I'd I'd prefer some of a bit more experience of that. But you'd probably be thinking, but it's an easier, quite easier to pick up just the curriculum I I personally think. I personally think it's easier to do that, but I still think that they're so different. It does work both ways. Yeah, sure. If you've only if you've been trained and you're a specialist in early years, then you're asked, do you see it? That's equally very different. And I'd equally be like, oh, it's hard just to just to flip it on. Yeah, because it because the literal way you teach is so different. I think that that would equally be a bit of like a oh, that's hard.

53:12 Would you do it? I'll finish with this. Would you go to, let's just say there was the perfect situation in terms of like renumeration job, whatever, like it was perfect for you, ��7,000,000 a month, ��7,000,000 a month and you have to do earliest. Would you do earliest? ��7,000,001.00 a month, yeah, the early years, yeah, definitely. But I personally just like knowing that I'm doing a good job, yeah. And I'd worry with that, that I would spend a long time not doing the best job because I'm just not trained. I think it'd be hard to be a type B teacher. Yeah, like quite scatty and leaving stuff everywhere. Isn't it? Really. You know, like horrible to the kids. Like horrible to the kids. Sorry, is that you? Is that sorry? I am the nice. I'm joking, yeah, but people listening to this don't know that.

53:53 Hey, I'm sure the kids will. Love you in terms of like I love school your personality in terms of like just like leaving stuff around like losing stuff, being a bit messy, like that type BI know it sounds horrible, but that is just who you are. Ways of describing type Type B was enough. I didn't really go disgusting, disgusting, horrible, dirty man. Even things everywhere doesn't what? Doesn't shower for weeks. Yeah, just disgusting. Look like this goes to your hands. You're the type of he isn't analogy, right? Okay, because I'm not enough. No, it's not. I need to describe this more. The type of teacher who loses their lanyard so many times that they feel embarrassed to ask for a new one again to get into the car box.

54:35 They just start parking outside the school, that kind of that kind of teacher. I don't think that's an analogy when it's just describing what happened. Yeah, right. Why not park in the car park? I love the walk you. Didn't have to admit that just it was just an analogy until you said that. Just a very, very specific analogy. I yeah, I think I would struggle in an. Analogy. What if you're a teacher? Here we go when you're just like a wow, a Type C teacher. Type C Yeah, all right, Dylan sounds to get so tetchy. So I found sold for the last 5 minutes. Oh God. Anyway.

55:16 Follow, follow enlightens and share rate. That was pretty funny. That was really funny. We'll finish there, shall we? Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that. You're going to he's he's going to have a he's going to moan at me now after this being so horrible to him. He will he. Will shut up. Shut up now. Sorry, the recording's not stopped. All right, so. It's over, Mr. Can you treat me with some bloody respect? Well, thank you. I've lost my bloody lanyard. If. You can if you can find me one working radiator pen in this. What have you got here? I've got my school lanyard that I said I took the take back to school five months ago and I haven't. Yeah, I'm there you go.

55:59 There's a little bit of it. I'll show you what school is. So found it after I left. Well done. And that will wherever that, wherever that just landed, I promise you, I promise you in three years that will be there. Three years is a bit strange. OK, two years. Yeah, maybe. I promise you it'll be there with the other random stuff that's there next to the door that's still on the on the wall and the. Yeah, anyway, bit of a crazy one. Type B teacher. Type C teacher. That makes you a type A teacher. A teacher who leaves us a review and does all that good stuff. Oh. That was good, see you next time. Bye.